Forum logs for 24 Aug 2016

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
* asciilifeform realized just now that question http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-23-aug-2016#2154852 seemed quite strange to mircea_popescu most likely on account of his not buying shitware to-break-it. [00:13]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 03:10 asciilifeform: gentlemen: any among you happen to own one of the 'stars' of the tard-ssh round-up ? [00:13]
asciilifeform: sorta continuation of the 'everybody!1111 has!1111 ONE!1111 comp' thread. [00:13]
mircea_popescu: guess so. [00:14]
asciilifeform: to possibly abuse the mircea_popescutron in my head, some folks buy iron to be cuckolded and alimonied by it, others -- to cut its throat and make sausage yet others - somewhere in between. [00:21]
mod6: Bang bang, he shot me down, bang bang, that awful sound, bang bang... << this [00:21]
mod6: looking forward to part II. :] [00:25]
mircea_popescu: it's on. [00:26]
mod6: i really enjoy the trips-down-trilema-lane with links like this: http://trilema.com/2012/the-imbecilitarians/ , stuff that I haven't probably read in ~4 years. [00:30]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/the-story-of-elliot-rodger-by-elliot-rodger-adnotated-part-two/ << Trilema - The Story of Elliot Rodger. By Elliot Rodger. Adnotated. Part Two. [00:31]
mod6: One of these times, I've got to circle back around and re-read the older ones. So many gems. [00:31]
mod6: hey! [00:31]
mod6: nice. [00:31]
* mod6 reads [00:31]
* asciilifeform reads. [00:31]
trinque: http://trilema.com/2016/the-story-of-elliot-rodger-by-elliot-rodger-adnotated-part-one/#selection-239.0-239.174 << god what a riot I'm dying [00:51]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9D60710F34429805CA983E018B19C9D0400E3978C6A4F97721303D362A1E9941 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 93717621124200192314145705948137075738570941668159058108077267463226172347789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '189.203.72.147 (ssh-rsa key from 189.203.72.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+189.203.72.147@mkj.lt [03:09]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F97816E68FFBD245AD39F3509A34B16D8F193D91A6125903354AB4CB383548F3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 93717621124200192314145705948137075738570941668159058108077267463226172347789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '189.203.181.149 (ssh-rsa key from 189.203.181.149 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+189.203.181.149@mkj [03:09]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/839ABB69349BD78F784309DB89D871C3CA284C1EF0E060E1FF3A19BEB3882351 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 93717621124200192314145705948137075738570941668159058108077267463226172347789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '187.188.126.28 (ssh-rsa key from 187.188.126.28 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+187.188.126.28@mkj.lt [03:09]
trinque: $up sdfghsdfg [03:51]
deedbot: sdfghsdfg voiced for 30 minutes. [03:51]
* trinque questions the humanity (and even fleshiness) of those that arrive but do not speak. [03:57]
Framedragger: asciilifeform: btw i have all the version banners (for all the hosts in the ssh keyset) stored, probably a good idea to make that available i guess? [07:37]
Framedragger: (i was originally planning to do some analysis myself sooner than later, but ended up enjoying summer too much) [07:37]
shinohai: $up t2yax [09:09]
deedbot: t2yax voiced for 30 minutes. [09:09]
t2yax: hello [09:09]
shinohai: heya t2yax did you submit your key to a public keyserver? [09:09]
t2yax: no [09:10]
t2yax: how to do it ? [09:10]
shinohai: sent you a PM [09:10]
thestringpuller: POWER WENT OUT AGAIN [09:26]
thestringpuller: WTF [09:26]
thestringpuller: Literally cannot sync bitcoin before power outage [09:26]
thestringpuller: guess I'm synching on my colo-box >:( [09:26]
jurov: u r no battery? [09:27]
thestringpuller: i didn't think i needed a "production" set up to run a bitcoin node [09:28]
thestringpuller: not that I mind, but hey the big blockers told me i can synch easy on current tech!!!!1111 [09:28]
mircea_popescu: hello t2yax [09:31]
mircea_popescu: $key t2yax [09:32]
asciilifeform: later tell Framedragger the banners really oughta have been in the userstrings. but if you dig'em up, i will retro-add them. [09:33]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [09:33]
shinohai: I had to instruct him on how to submit key to public keyserver [09:33]
shinohai: deedbot didn't see key [09:33]
mircea_popescu: aok. ping me. [09:33]
thestringpuller: seeding eulora with da n00bs is an interesting process as it requires WoT registration [09:36]
mircea_popescu: aha. [09:36]
t2yax: hello mircea [09:38]
shinohai: I'm pretty impressed someone made it this far, so far my replies have required lots of crayons. [09:38]
t2yax: $register A28D33C4DDC87533BA1A9EE53DDAB37948261874 [09:38]
deedbot: A28D33C4DDC87533BA1A9EE53DDAB37948261874 registered as t2yax. [09:38]
shinohai: \o/ [09:38]
mircea_popescu: a cool [09:38]
mircea_popescu: $key t2yax [09:38]
deedbot: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/ceb8112b-63bd-4463-a1ee-b4e7f1660f4a/ [09:39]
thestringpuller: shinohai: eventually when you can use eulora to purchase soma, the cypherpunk n00bs will flow in SnowCrash style. Or I guess Ready Player One?!? [09:39]
mircea_popescu: aha. [09:39]
mircea_popescu: what's the rush. [09:39]
mircea_popescu: har har :) [09:39]
thestringpuller: hey. if the government hadn't ruined second life! [09:40]
shinohai: $up t2yax [09:40]
deedbot: t2yax voiced for 30 minutes. [09:40]
t2yax: 5 min left for game [09:40]
t2yax: and also i wanna change my irc password [09:40]
t2yax: how to do it ? [09:40]
shinohai: t2yax: /msg NickServ SET PASSWORD <newpass> [09:41]
shinohai: where <newpass> is well ... [09:41]
t2yax: oky [09:41]
t2yax: thnx [09:41]
mircea_popescu: t2yax http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/57b4f884-85e3-4b86-8eb9-9507355683f9/?raw=true [09:42]
t2yax: so what should i do ? [09:42]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528331 << all 3 mexico. the 2 that answer return SSH-1.99-DOPRA-1.5. [09:42]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 07:09 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9D60710F34429805CA983E018B19C9D0400E3978C6A4F97721303D362A1E9941 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 93717621124200192314145705948137075738570941668159058108077267463226172347789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '189.203.72.147 (ssh-rsa key from 189.203.72.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+189.203.72.147@mkj.lt [09:42]
mircea_popescu: you use pgp to decrypy that. [09:42]
mircea_popescu: t2yax same program that made your key lets you decrypt that message. [09:43]
t2yax: ok [09:43]
diana_coman: decrypy sounds about right, lol [09:44]
mircea_popescu: lmao [09:44]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528338 << now you know why enjoyment is sinful in the eyes of the lord! [09:44]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 11:37 Framedragger: (i was originally planning to do some analysis myself sooner than later, but ended up enjoying summer too much) [09:44]
t2yax: so now [09:44]
t2yax: i will save that as text file [09:44]
t2yax: then decrypt it ? [09:44]
mircea_popescu: sure. [09:44]
t2yax: i did it [09:45]
mircea_popescu: alright, so log in. [09:45]
t2yax: now i have Yeni Metin Belgesi.txt.out [09:45]
mircea_popescu: well see what's in it [09:45]
t2yax: ok [09:45]
t2yax: its like a username and password [09:45]
mircea_popescu: well yes. [09:46]
mircea_popescu: so you can log in. [09:46]
shinohai: yup that is your Eulora creds [09:46]
t2yax: oky [09:46]
t2yax: so how to open game [09:46]
t2yax: with eulora.bat [09:46]
t2yax: ? [09:46]
mircea_popescu: sounds likely, yeah. [09:47]
t2yax: but its closing right after opening :( [09:47]
mircea_popescu: ahhh the explosive breath of this channel. all the way from ssh 0days to opening game via .bat [09:47]
shinohai: It also helps if you curse Erdoğan 3 times for shitty internet. [09:47]
mircea_popescu: roflmao. [09:47]
mircea_popescu: t2yax open that eulora.bat, what's it say in there ? [09:47]
t2yax: i got [09:47]
t2yax: it [09:47]
mircea_popescu: $up ZA2016 [09:47]
deedbot: ZA2016 voiced for 30 minutes. [09:47]
t2yax: when i look at bat file [09:48]
t2yax: its need to be placed at :C [09:48]
mircea_popescu: nah if it works no mopre need. [09:48]
mircea_popescu: $rate t2yax 1 Euloran [09:48]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/a1e3f392-67b2-48df-be5f-e47ab2d5bb6b/ [09:48]
mircea_popescu: $v 452F472E1244F153DD0D53919C2856D01502FA8AB1C63320FF061933B9B44233 [09:48]
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated t2yax 1 << Euloran [09:48]
t2yax: yes ! [09:49]
t2yax: game opened [09:49]
mircea_popescu: well done. [09:49]
t2yax: but at start [09:49]
t2yax: i got openal32.dll eror [09:49]
t2yax: that is missing [09:49]
t2yax: where to get it and place it ? [09:49]
mircea_popescu: are you using jurov's build ? [09:49]
t2yax: wait [09:50]
t2yax: yes [09:50]
mircea_popescu: lol. WAIT! im not going anywhere. [09:50]
mircea_popescu: t2yax it's part of your nvidia driver, or should be. is your video card driver up to date ? [09:50]
t2yax: yes [09:50]
t2yax: its latest [09:50]
mircea_popescu: lemme see. [09:51]
t2yax: 372.54 [09:51]
diana_coman: is that elliot rodger guy still alive (well, as much as he ever was) - might be about time to get him to join eulora it has COOL cookies [09:51]
PeterL: $deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/5964c1e5-6273-457e-a621-97a8f16752c8/?raw=true [09:51]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: fella went postal and ate pistol [09:52]
deedbot: accepted: 1 [09:52]
PeterL: $v 6CDD699B1F963F14A475E86D48E1F833F9EC2A827EB3ED4832BFA803A69463E7 [09:52]
deedbot: PeterL rated mircea_popescu +1 << Runs MPEx and Eulora and stuff. [09:52]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman he died in 2014 killed a buncha girls at uc santa barbara [09:52]
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-23#1527863 << ^ example of what it would look like? [09:53]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-23 21:38 asciilifeform: the 'keys rating keys' thing does not yet exist. [09:53]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very unusually, and afaik unlike every other postalhero, rodger's youtube thing is still up: https://www.youtube.com/user/ElliotRodger [09:53]
t2yax: http://prntscr.com/c9tlwr http://prntscr.com/c9tm1y [09:53]
diana_coman: his "writing" can kill more than a bunch for sure [09:54]
t2yax: those are driver files mircea [09:54]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman how would that happen ? [09:56]
diana_coman: of boredom reading it? [09:56]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect it's very convenient muppet. has entirely nothing to do with anything of political interest, or for that matter this world. [09:57]
diana_coman: tedious is an understatement [09:57]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the way it goes in my head reading it is something like "why doesn't this fucking spider walk away. o wait, ITS A SPIDER." [09:57]
diana_coman: I suppose I don't have the same amount of patience with spiders and certainly no qualms killing them if they don't get out of the way I read about half the first part and then really skipped through it and still felt that I lost too much of my time on it [10:02]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/iVmK2 << news bulletin from the time. reading it makes me wish the fella had used a maxim gun, or sarin. [10:02]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i'm about 32/108 done, fancy that. [10:03]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why ?! [10:03]
asciilifeform: the sheer cattle-banality of the Officially-sainted martyrs seeps through. [10:04]
mircea_popescu: heh. [10:05]
asciilifeform: '“I don’t think I would have made it without any support,” she said, fighting through the tears.' [10:05]
diana_coman: well, your notes provide good places to stop and read a bit actually: kind of like signposts here, look at THIS shit - a gem of a shit in a tedious shit [10:05]
asciilifeform: '“I’m angry that it happened, you know, that it does happen,” Pieter de Kock told ABC News. “I’m angry that it’s … it’s not changing in this country. We need to change this violence.”' [10:05]
mircea_popescu: easy now big fella... [10:06]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-10#1296052 << mega-thread re subj. [10:06]
a111: Logged on 2015-10-10 13:15 mircea_popescu: their issue is with the WILL. car deaths are "accidents". that's ok. just as long as nobody gets what they WANT libertard is happy. [10:06]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman it's really not much of a general interest piece amateur and professional entomologists only. [10:06]
mircea_popescu: sooo, /me taught girl about cheese maybe a coupla years ago. now /me goes to the fridge, there's epic stuff in there didn't evne know existed in this country. [10:14]
mircea_popescu: life is good. [10:14]
diana_coman: for some reason the whole thing did trigger one old memory of a classmate in the 4th grade who shouted through tears: WHY do they all go to congratulate you for winning instead of consoling me for losing having also observed quite a lot of small children recently, I would be inclined to think this guy was just stuck somewhere around a *very* little age and that is that [10:14]
mircea_popescu: agreed. [10:14]
mircea_popescu: key brain structures apparently failed to mature past ~30 months. [10:14]
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-426668.txt [10:15]
mircea_popescu: in feminist theory (the "mainstream" version not the "slut-friendly" fringe) THIS is the necessary and ubiquitous characteristic of all prostitutes, incidentally. [10:15]
mircea_popescu: "vulnerable retarded women". [10:15]
mircea_popescu: characteristically, it shares a lot with traditional doctrine re females ("utterly dumb in the sense of actually devoid of a soul / humanity spark") apud classical greeks. [10:16]
diana_coman: something like that I find it more damning though that apparently nobody around him either noticed anything of the kind or otherwise take any meaningful action on it [10:16]
mircea_popescu: incidentally, that diana_coman , otherwise the soul of benevolence and peacibility, is talking of smushing and killing keenly reminds me of an older trilema article [10:18]
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/epifania-cu-pedofilia/ [10:18]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the reason they "didn't notice" / "didn't take action" is that they're "modern democracy liberal civilised people" which is to say that strange sect of neopuritanism which believes from is both necessary and sufficient don't curse and you'll go to heaven don't say nigger and you'll get promoted don't meaningfully talk or actually interact with your children and they'll go to college. [10:21]
diana_coman: the last part I suspect is just that they don't meaningfully talk or actually interact with anybody simply [10:21]
diana_coman: but myeah, I guess that article makes sense [10:22]
PeterL: I thought somebody here suggested "The White Guard" by Mikhail Bulgakov, but I can't find it in logs now. Anyway, I recently finished it, was pretty good book. [10:23]
mircea_popescu: see, if this guy was ever so slightly less broken, he'd have survived a coupla years more with a cloak of semblance of normalcy covering him and consequently acquired both a love of 12yo girls and the deep cowardice that's universally the mark of hte pedo. [10:23]
mircea_popescu: he'd have made a primo pedophile. [10:24]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman : ask anyone who grew up as usaschwitz inmate. the culture is broken in ways that make dr mengele look like a harmless eccentric. they see it as a VIRTUE to keep broken people, esp. children, alive. [10:24]
mircea_popescu: they do yes. [10:24]
asciilifeform: so when they get the (very occasional) bill, they... moo. [10:24]
mircea_popescu: and they see it as cardinal sin to attempt to fix. ESPECIALLY if it seems to work. [10:24]
mircea_popescu: then they get truly irate if it doesn't look like it possibly could they're just displeased. [10:24]
mircea_popescu: this is to me indicative. [10:24]
asciilifeform: my one criticism of 'postalists' is that they violate a cardinal rule of mircea_popescutronics: 'don't administer the beating in a way that leaves the punished believing in possibility of recourse.' [10:25]
asciilifeform: imho postalists ought to use wholly homemade weapons, e.g., explosive. [10:25]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, but keeping them alive is one thing, at the end of the day I can keep whatever I want alive in a jar on my windowsill [10:25]
mircea_popescu: though in fairness i must say, nothing anyone did or didn't do could have helped this kid. he is the definitionally patibulaire [10:25]
mircea_popescu: (ie, gallowsface) [10:26]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: no jars, not since 1950s or so. usa is ~open air~ lunatic asylum. [10:26]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: being run over by a 2-horse carriage at age 7 would have helped. [10:26]
asciilifeform: or typhus. [10:26]
asciilifeform: or at LEAST trench warfare. [10:26]
asciilifeform: (i personally could have greatly benefited from trench warfare! in the everettian sense.) [10:27]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, that may be, although I suspect it's not true per se: sure, nothing could have been done to make him something else than he was plenty could have been done to allow him to die happy for instance instead of giving him that responsibility too moreover there was plenty to be done to help everyone else basically what asciilifeform says [10:29]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the 'could have been done' phrasing is symptomatic of the cultural illness that leads to postals being a ~necessary~ thing in the first place. [10:30]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I'm not sure I got that [10:31]
diana_coman: done or not done there rather [10:31]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wouldn't have been judged fit for service since 1800s [10:33]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman kid is lacking the hardware. you can make a seeing child learn to read you can fit glasses to a "retarded" kid that's just myopic and let them catch up to their normal level. you can not teach reading to child born withou eyes. [10:34]
shinohai: Looks like a face that would have made a great career transexual though. [10:34]
mircea_popescu: shinohai to continue the discussion : yes, a little less cursed he'd have made a great pedo and a little less cursed than that even, he'd have made a great homosexual. [10:34]
mircea_popescu: notice that his attachment to boys as described reads cvasi as it is. [10:35]
shinohai: aha! [10:35]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I did NOT say to teach him anything precisely my point: nothing to do to make him something else than he was (or rather: wasn't) what I meant by plenty to do starts with NOT pretending he is a fine child like all the rest, let's get him to college, give him a car etc [10:35]
mircea_popescu: (for this discussion we distinguish between "homosexual = man incapable of forming deep connections with women" and everything else fucking men is not even contemplated for criteria as such.) [10:35]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i wish to meet the father that actually does this. [10:36]
mircea_popescu: i'm not even asking for the mother. [10:36]
diana_coman: you mean you think that's a biological impossibility for some reason? as otherwise it's still basically a broken culture thing at most and so what asciilifeform said, but not exactly "nothing anyone did or didn't do" [10:39]
mircea_popescu: it's not the culture that fucked up rodger. he would have been broken in any culture. [10:40]
diana_coman: yes, but that was not the point [10:40]
mircea_popescu: it's just that his extremely rare make-up (as it's rare for kids this dysfunctional to survive the cunt's regexpes) allows us to examine THAT culture in an exotic light [10:40]
mircea_popescu: and so he serves us in the sense a "stray torpedo" helps the navy that launched it if it happens to hit "something" that "wasn't supposed to be there" [10:41]
diana_coman: he was broken to start with (or in a more charitable view one might be inclined maybe to think that some actual interaction when he was tiny etc - but that is a matter of hope rather than anything else) [10:41]
mircea_popescu: amusingly, if the "brain scan" approach were science, this kid would look so deeply evident on a scan... [10:43]
mircea_popescu: but as it is, it's just a shorted clock bus. chip looks exactly like any other, everywhere, except it won't even remotely boot. [10:43]
diana_coman: the way I read asciilifeform's point of bringing culture in was that it's culture responsible for the outcome of there being a broken kid not for the fact he was broken, not for the fact he existed in the first place simply and strictly for he's specific end [10:43]
diana_coman: his [10:43]
mircea_popescu: even this seems a tall order. [10:43]
mircea_popescu: will of the gods precludes human law. [10:44]
diana_coman: uhm, haven't really searched this but do you mean that there are similar shootings all other the world? can't really be that this kind of broken is to be found in the us alone [10:45]
diana_coman: over*!!! [10:45]
mircea_popescu: i seem to recall a dude who set rome on fire. [10:46]
mircea_popescu: i also seem to recall a dude that burned some building in athens. [10:46]
shinohai: Well there was Pekka-Eric Auvinen [10:49]
diana_coman: aha why the need to go back so much in time though? [10:49]
mircea_popescu: because literacy is a rare flower. [10:50]
mircea_popescu: also not a need but it serves my stand better the larger diversity there is in the examples. [10:50]
diana_coman: dunno if I really buy Nero being the same kind of broken might need to brush up on it in this light at least out of curiosity [10:55]
asciilifeform: unsurprisingly 0 discussion of this in tardstream organs, but what of all the billions of 'people' with no souls, who obediently moo in their stalls ? [10:55]
asciilifeform: it is my considered view that postalist is cow who ~grows~ a soul, in adulthood. and understands that there is precisely one useful thing left for him to do. [10:56]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i don't buy nero-the-historical-character either but my point is that the description of him from ancient sources hostile is mendacious in a certain way, which certain way supports my view in that it makes it plain the ancients were aware of the type. [10:56]
asciilifeform: which is to clean up the river of meat, by one small bit. [10:56]
mircea_popescu: calling nero that type may be slander that it seemed to the pinoy at the time the more credible slander is instructive. [10:56]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, eventually the rest of the decerebrated body calls for apoptosis. [10:57]
asciilifeform: aha. [10:57]
mircea_popescu: which is by definition an universal apocalypse from the subjective view. [10:57]
asciilifeform: a postalist is as healthy, a necessary, thing, as a t-cell. [10:57]
mircea_popescu: well... not really like a t cell [10:58]
mircea_popescu: more like inflamatory response citokine [10:58]
asciilifeform: anybody here ever read brunner's 'stand on zanzibar' ? [10:58]
mircea_popescu: sure. [10:58]
asciilifeform: good portrait. [10:58]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528514 << why ? [11:00]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 14:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wouldn't have been judged fit for service since 1800s [11:00]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because insane. even in voltaire, cca 1750, there's an evident awareness of candide's probable fate in army. [11:01]
asciilifeform: y'think muster post in '41 cares about 'sane' ? [11:01]
asciilifeform: so long as there isn't froth and spittle, they'll take ya./ [11:02]
mircea_popescu: this is beyond the point. [11:02]
mircea_popescu: the point is, he'd be dead before making the trench. [11:02]
asciilifeform: dunno why you're so certain of this. [11:02]
asciilifeform: consider dirlewanger battalion. [11:02]
asciilifeform: half of europe remembers it, i suspect, to this day. [11:02]
mircea_popescu: they wouldn't know enough about it. consider gomer pyle's fate in (the very fem-driven, castrated) us army. [11:02]
mircea_popescu: the other kids will just kill him and that's that. [11:02]
mircea_popescu: fragging officers exists BECAUSE of the practice of killing rodgers. [11:03]
asciilifeform: now this, possible. [11:03]
mircea_popescu: is what i meant. [11:03]
asciilifeform: but note, i did not say he ought to have been in the trench 'to turn into a Real Man' [11:03]
asciilifeform: i said 'ought to have gone to the trench.' [11:03]
mircea_popescu: what did you say ? [11:03]
mircea_popescu: haha like that. sure. [11:03]
asciilifeform: carefully did not mention 'coming back.' [11:03]
asciilifeform: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528506 . [11:03]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 14:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: being run over by a 2-horse carriage at age 7 would have helped. [11:03]
asciilifeform: the pathological nonlethality of modern life is a serious liability. [11:04]
asciilifeform: ever see gravure of medieval swine ? compare with modern swine. [11:04]
asciilifeform: why does anyone imagine that the same thing did not happen to people ? [11:04]
asciilifeform: and who, while we're on the subject, are BingoBoingo's 'people of lolmart' sideshow candidates ? [11:04]
asciilifeform: if not the illustration for this. [11:05]
mircea_popescu: hey, nobody disputes that "human life is supreme value" is a recipe for utter disaster of the foulest, worst smellijng kind. [11:07]
mircea_popescu: at least not within earshot. [11:07]
mircea_popescu: also consider - someone like the young rodger is the result of careful selection over the generations. [11:08]
asciilifeform: in just about every description of a postal in my living memory, the victims inspire considerably more revulsion in my mind than the perpetrator. [11:08]
mircea_popescu: you don't just GET a dalmatian one day [11:08]
asciilifeform: the latter grows a 'soul', or at least ~agency~, when he finally cocks the pistol. [11:08]
asciilifeform: the cattle - moo to their grave. [11:08]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes, because you're politically engaged. i'm sure the nazi "victims" of special forward batallion inspired a lot more revulsion in liberated population than the perpetrators. [11:09]
asciilifeform: the correct analogy is the 'happily occupied' territories of, e.g., ukraine, belorussia. [11:10]
asciilifeform: partizan comes out of the forest. says to farmer, 'we need flour and milk.' farmer: 'germany gave me my land. go off to the forest before i pump you full of buckshot.' [11:11]
mircea_popescu: ok, like that too [11:11]
asciilifeform: so partizan 'discomforts the comfortable', night raid, quisling village is razed. [11:11]
asciilifeform: ~for being good cattle~. [11:11]
mircea_popescu: can go either way. [11:11]
mircea_popescu: in any case, farmer should have shot first. [11:11]
asciilifeform: sometimes - did. [11:12]
mircea_popescu: i suppose the "problem" at the time was ~nobody was taking russians, soviets or stalin seriously. [11:12]
mircea_popescu: they did seem kind-of the same consistency of cvas. [11:12]
asciilifeform: hence the rich culture of collaborationism, spanning, e.g., most of the baltic. [11:12]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> also consider - someone like the young rodger is the result of careful selection over the generations. <- thing is: if ancients were aware of the type, this selection thing is not really that relevant: there probably always was, there always will be [11:12]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman hip displasia also "always was, and always will be". [11:13]
mircea_popescu: sure. yet some dog lines get it 70% [11:13]
diana_coman: the only difference that I see and I was putting on the shoulders of culture is that at that time this kind of broken was acknowledged for what it was and used accordingly [11:13]
mircea_popescu: well that's pretty big a deal. [11:13]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i disagree that rodger is a notably broken example of an american. [11:14]
asciilifeform: he was a rare ~cured~ american. [11:14]
diana_coman: or rather: at *this* time it isn't acknowledge nor used accordingly [11:14]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he is a notably broken example of the human race. [11:14]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I meant it as broken human, not broken american [11:14]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, beat me to it, lol [11:14]
asciilifeform: all of the dysfunctions detailed in mircea_popescu's analysis, are ~typical~ of the folk here. [11:14]
mircea_popescu: superficially, perhaps. [11:15]
asciilifeform: rodger was a rare example of a sleeper ~waking up~. [11:15]
diana_coman: I suspect that is what asciilifeform prefers to consider [11:15]
asciilifeform: the rest of his 'dictionary speech' cohort are still ambling about. [11:15]
diana_coman: I would however put forward the fact that a 2 year old is perfectly capable of shooting someone with a pistol [11:15]
diana_coman: doesn't mean they woke up by doing it [11:16]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: from the article, it does not appear that the man picked up pistol and fired as a nonvolitional act of hindbrain [11:16]
diana_coman: also asciilifeform for all you know those who actually died did NOT do the "dictionary speech" while precisely those who survived did [11:16]
asciilifeform: for all i know, the dead were all expert acrobats. [11:17]
mircea_popescu: "behold, all engines have a cracked cylinder : they all sound and the diagnosis of the cracked cylinder was made by sound". [11:17]
mircea_popescu: this isn't... sound. [11:17]
mircea_popescu: \ [11:17]
asciilifeform: but the typical choice of victim is 'target-rich environment'. [11:17]
mircea_popescu: it'\s not clear he did that, no. [11:18]
mircea_popescu: seems in his case it was more of "emotional territory" [11:18]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the 'dictionary speech' thing is 'normal' in usa. have you been here in the past decade or two ? visit some time. pick up a newspaper, or turn on a television set. talk to a stranger on the train. [11:18]
mircea_popescu: ie, like sioux killing rando mpeople because "he feels" that the towns streets are on "indioan land" [11:18]
diana_coman: I was only briefly in Boston some ..hmmm, 6-7 years ago [11:19]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, i suspect that is necessary stage in english evolution towards chinese. [11:19]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: chinese pictograms did not come from mars, no. [11:19]
mircea_popescu: soon they'll start marking down the long copulative names with drawings [11:19]
asciilifeform: no shit, necessary. [11:19]
mircea_popescu: then we'll sit around and wonder idly why all the usians are uncreative and eat wheat [11:20]
asciilifeform: neal stephenson, in 'anathem', had a correct picture of cultural devolution into pictograms. [11:20]
diana_coman: that actually reinforces the point that by these standards a 2 year old who shoots someone (he found a new toy, pulled the trigger to see what) has equally woken up: chances are that they shoot dictionary speech people if that is the norm for people [11:20]
mircea_popescu: "maybe it's the wheat ?" [11:20]
thestringpuller: the interim is lame LOL acronym thingies [11:21]
thestringpuller: IIRC. WRT. BRB. [11:21]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: and if meteor falls on dense traffic in usa, chances are that it flattens dictionary speaker. [11:21]
diana_coman: so meteor woke up? [11:21]
asciilifeform: and no it does not follow that meteors have guidance systems that seek these out. [11:21]
diana_coman: so then in what sense exactly did the guy wake up? [11:21]
asciilifeform: when he understands (and , no - i did not have a debugger attached to his head, can only infer from the manifesto, that he ~understood~) that 'it is time' [11:22]
asciilifeform: then - he woke up. [11:22]
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: I must admit. Your Twitter polls actually make a person think before answering... [11:25]
asciilifeform: when a postalist buys his kalash and begins to happily whistle as he cleans it every morning and thinks of how he will cull the diseases mass, he need not be consciously aware of why, but his behaviour is as healthy and necessary, civilizationally, as a nursing mother's. [11:27]
asciilifeform: *diseased [11:27]
asciilifeform: 'running amock' is a thing even among rats packet into a box. [11:28]
asciilifeform: even certain insects will do it. [11:28]
asciilifeform: there are no postalists in places with sane population density, and sane degrees of millimortage/diem. [11:28]
asciilifeform: *packed [11:29]
asciilifeform: $s debeaking [11:34]
a111: 1 result for "debeaking", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=debeaking [11:34]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-19#1279182 [11:34]
a111: Logged on 2015-09-19 02:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-09-2015#1278941 << this is the EXACT same basic thing as debeaking (ask a poultry farmer) [11:34]
asciilifeform: even chickens, when packed into cages, begin to behave ~correctly~, they cannot kill the farmer, but can try to thin the biomass that is choking off their movement and air. [11:35]
asciilifeform: so modern american farm - saws off, yes, their beaks. [11:35]
asciilifeform: same thing is done to people in 'civilized' world. [11:36]
asciilifeform: which is why the butthurt after a postal is inevitably about the pistol, or whatever ~beak~ the apoptoting chicken happened to use. [11:36]
asciilifeform: 'oh noez we forgot to saw this one off correctly, need better saw' [11:37]
diana_coman: from out here the butthurt re pistol/guns seems an entirely american thing really [11:37]
asciilifeform: in china, they are stuck with meat cleaver [11:38]
asciilifeform: (recently a mega-hero nailed a room full with one) [11:38]
asciilifeform: but principle is the same. [11:38]
asciilifeform: at no point will any Official organ suggest that problem is 'packing chickens 5 to a cage', rather than the beak/cleaver. [11:38]
diana_coman: as I said: "could have been done" has nothing to do with putting away the pistol/guns and all to do with finding the right place for the guy, be that 10m in the ground, "jar" or whatever else [11:39]
asciilifeform: 10m in ground is right place for ~everyone~ eventually. [11:39]
asciilifeform: question is when. [11:39]
asciilifeform: for some folks, it is at age 5. [11:39]
asciilifeform: others - 15. [11:40]
asciilifeform: etc [11:40]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has article where 'supernumerary children who failed to find their infant graves' [11:40]
diana_coman: true that my thought there was informed by the fact that a 2 years old can be happily kept occupied with perfectly-adequate stuff IF someone points them to it on the other hand if left on their own, they will ~always find a destructive thing to do [11:41]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: statistical effect - most of the objects in your house that the 2yo could break, are not kept for this purpose [11:42]
asciilifeform: so 'loose cannon' [11:42]
diana_coman: it's not about objects that could break [11:43]
asciilifeform: the 'destructive' exists only in the parent's eyes [11:44]
diana_coman: the 2yo himself basically is the main thing that "could break" [11:44]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528656 << this is entirely untrue. [11:44]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 15:28 asciilifeform: there are no postalists in places with sane population density, and sane degrees of millimortage/diem. [11:44]
mircea_popescu: they're just not as visible. [11:44]
diana_coman: what I mean is that they will inevitably take on something that is bound to end quite badly for themselves first of all [11:45]
diana_coman: because they can't evaluate really AND they are frail at the end of the day [11:45]
mircea_popescu: not that this crumbles the whole debeaking line. [11:45]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from sov criminalistic records, the typical picture is 'grandfather kills family with axe', or 'mother drowns children', but no, afaik, 'village idiot axes dozen in town hall' [11:46]
mircea_popescu: plenty of such recorded in eg us wild west. [11:46]
asciilifeform: but 'grandfather' scenario is not a postal. [11:46]
asciilifeform: it is, (and i think the correct engl. criminalistic term) 'a domestic'. [11:47]
asciilifeform: postal, in the true rodgerian, or harris&klebold-ian, sense, is specifically 'supernumerary child' thinning the biomass. [11:48]
shinohai: Thinning of biomass currently underway at American University in Kabul, stay tuned. [11:49]
mircea_popescu: well looky : the practical definition and the theoretical definition have no good reason to match. [11:51]
mircea_popescu: "this is a nail" "this is what i deem a nail" [11:52]
mircea_popescu: entirely unrelated items [11:52]
asciilifeform: the rodgers, having been taught rudimentary literacy, left sufficient record to establish themselves as a meaningful equivalence class [11:52]
asciilifeform: that includes harris & klebold, but not, say, capt. aguilera (of 'problem in the sewers' spanish civil war fame) who killed his family [11:53]
mircea_popescu: it's not entirely evident meaning works in the way you wish it to. [11:54]
mircea_popescu: they also left record declaring themselves "supreme gentlemen" [11:54]
mircea_popescu: which is a ridiculous thing for a mixed blood burgher from the colonies to even aspire to, let alone pretend to. [11:54]
asciilifeform: not going from the declared 'i am'-s, but from the record of soulless life. [11:55]
mircea_popescu: not all virgins are the same virgin in the way all whores are the same whore. [11:55]
mircea_popescu: similarly not all functions that return nil are equal in the way all functions that return 4 are equal [11:55]
asciilifeform: but there is a great deal of similarity between ~all 40+ y.o. male virgins [11:55]
mircea_popescu: how do we know this ? [11:56]
mircea_popescu: "they look the same to me" [11:56]
asciilifeform: sorta how we know that folks who cannot tie own shoes, are quite similar. [11:56]
mircea_popescu: this analogy may well not hold. [11:57]
mircea_popescu: budhist monk, also virgin. [11:57]
mircea_popescu: some live as long as to reach 40. [11:57]
asciilifeform: virgin, on reflection, is wrong word here. [11:57]
asciilifeform: i will have to introduce an americanism, [11:57]
asciilifeform: 'invcel'. [11:58]
mircea_popescu: it is not clear this symbol has a meaning. [11:58]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu never met such ? [11:58]
mircea_popescu: well one can never meet symbols. [11:58]
mircea_popescu: but if i start walking around the beatitudes a l'abbe de notre dame de courants d'air, i'll let you know. [11:58]
asciilifeform: 'leprosy' is also a symbol, and has a meaning. [11:59]
mircea_popescu: sure that one does. [12:00]
asciilifeform: (though, interestingly, modern epidemiologists do not all agree that we know today what leprosy was!11) [12:00]
mircea_popescu: in this sense, mp is also a man, and he has women. [12:00]
mircea_popescu: so therefore no virgins. [12:00]
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally, is a major cornerstone of all religious faith. which is why it's important that jesus "also man") [12:00]
mircea_popescu: also, in its dubious definition as scrawled by hands evidently more fit and more used to farm work, "invcel" seems to rather resemble "invpoor", as for instance in africa, or its colonies in the us. [12:01]
mircea_popescu: rakim, the invpoor. [12:02]
mircea_popescu: it's altogether not clear, for a very basic instance, that "voluntary" is contemplated to mean anything other than "i didn't give my permission for this". [12:02]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only clear thing it means is 'not monk, did not take vows of celibacy' [12:03]
mircea_popescu: monks, especially in the feminine, often don't do it voluntarily. [12:03]
asciilifeform: tru! [12:04]
* asciilifeform has intel gap wide enough to drive a train into, re who becomes monk ~today~ [12:04]
mircea_popescu: or historically. [12:05]
asciilifeform: historically i have a reasonably detailed picture. [12:05]
mircea_popescu: but i'll give you a sole example : [12:05]
mircea_popescu: $google "de ma voi scula pre multi am sa popesc si eu" [12:05]
deedbot: https://capitalismpepaine.com/2012/07/30/de-ma-voi-scula-pre-multi-am-sa-popesc-si-eu/ << De mă voi scula, pre mulți am să popesc și eu! – Capitalism pe pâine | http://www.costachenegruzzi.eu/opere.php << Costache Negruzzi - Opere | http://www.prosti.ro/perle-bacalaureat-3-0.htm << PERLE BACALAUREAT Pagina 1 - Prosti.ro - BACALAUREAT [12:05]
mircea_popescu: ^ arguably romania's most famous monk, alexandru lapusneanu [12:06]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would you say 'name of the rose' is a reasonable portrait of 'who monks' ? [12:06]
mircea_popescu: (ie, "should i get out of here, i'll monk a few people myself!") [12:06]
mircea_popescu: no, we shall not. [12:06]
mircea_popescu: it's not a bad novel. stendhal's rouge&noir is also. there's more. and the east has its own. [12:07]
asciilifeform: (iirc it featured 5 or 6 'reasons' for ending up as one) [12:07]
asciilifeform: later tell mircea_popescu https://lwn.net/Articles/696561 << moar fruit from the nailgunned-murdock tree [12:14]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [12:14]
asciilifeform: 'Debian to shift to a modern GnuPG' [12:14]
asciilifeform: ^ notably, aug. the 10th [12:15]
asciilifeform: MODERN!111111 [12:15]
asciilifeform: 'For end users, the switch to the new branch will likely only be noticeable in a few situations—and perhaps only if one is looking carefully. For instance, the gpg-agent process will prompt the user for the passphrase to unlock a key, rather than the gpg process, but the workflow itself will not be altered otherwise. Users who have existing keyrings on their machines will have those keyrings automatically updated to the new storage [12:15]
asciilifeform: format the first time that they run GnuPG modern but, again, the transition is transparent enough that it is not likely to be noticed.' [12:15]
asciilifeform: ^ 'you will be raped with plenty of lubrication, will hardly notice!' [12:15]
mircea_popescu: hey, more power to them [12:16]
mircea_popescu: but yes, the lines are certainly solidifying under republican pressure. [12:17]
phf: which actually makes no sense, since gnupg 1.4 is designed explecitly for use in the kind of situations debian is using it. i.e. low level infrastructural verification [12:17]
mircea_popescu: right. [12:18]
phf: if you were to take all the marketing materials at face value, gpg1 is for backend work, gpg2 is client facing, for user emails and such. [12:18]
mircea_popescu: used to be at any rate. [12:19]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/tS7S2 << meanwhile in the genius pit [12:19]
asciilifeform: *pit [12:19]
phf: ahaha [12:19]
mircea_popescu: who's that ? [12:21]
asciilifeform: dunno that this question has an answer. [12:21]
asciilifeform: incidentally i dun recall gpg2 having own keyring format. [12:21]
mircea_popescu: and in further "this is thoroughly disgusting" news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m672xbFZgd1qfbxavo1_400.gif [12:21]
* asciilifeform is a reformed ex-gpg2 user, and had no conversion work to do when moved [12:22]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform now it does. [12:22]
mircea_popescu: gotta make it more like prb wallet! [12:22]
shinohai: I came mircea_popescu ! [12:22]
mircea_popescu: lol [12:22]
phf: i had some mild success with a script around gpg where on each run it would create a db in tmp/, import all keys from ~/wot ~/systemkeys ~/randomkeys etc., then run the op against that tmp db, and finally remove the db [12:25]
asciilifeform: phf: it is how my vtron worked. [12:26]
phf: right, exactly [12:26]
asciilifeform: and is the only way to get ~sane behaviour out of gpg. [12:26]
asciilifeform: (a sane pgptron would operate ONLY on what state is given on the command line !) [12:26]
phf: as my unix teacher used to say "i had this idea, i read it in ..." [12:26]
mircea_popescu: lol [12:26]
asciilifeform: 'keychains' are a work of evil. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: hey, some ideas are hard enough to possess even if explained to you, rather than having to find on own. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but notice the astounding design similarity with "bitcoin wallet" [12:27]
mircea_popescu: EXACTLY the same broken choices. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: ie, elliot rodger a lot more common than previously thought. [12:27]
asciilifeform: hey, think of how often shamanic pharmacopeia involves... shit. [12:28]
asciilifeform: because it stinks, ergo CLEARLY POWERFUL [12:28]
asciilifeform: ditto binary turds silently morphing, storing state. [12:28]
asciilifeform: some idiocies are powerful attractors. [12:29]
trinque: importantly morphing, storing state in each its own unique snowflake of format [12:29]
trinque: o hey look ma, made my own windows registry, but only for this one proggie [12:30]
asciilifeform: trinque: more importantly, a precise description of why 'i stored x, y, z, and binary is now B ~BECAUSE~...' would be book-length. [12:30]
asciilifeform: and largely full of arbitrary rubbish. [12:30]
trinque: aha, back to unicode [12:30]
asciilifeform: https://sweet32.info << moar crypto lulz. [12:31]
asciilifeform: 'It is well-known in the cryptographic community that a short block size makes a block cipher vulnerable to birthday attacks, even if the are no cryptographic attacks against the block cipher itself. We observe that such attacks have now become practical for the common usage of 64-bit block ciphers in popular protocols like TLS and OpenVPN. Still, such ciphers are widely enabled on the Internet. Blowfish is currently the default ciph [12:32]
asciilifeform: er in OpenVPN, and Triple-DES is supported by nearly all HTTPS web servers, and currently used for roughly 1-2% of HTTPS connections between mainstream browsers and web servers.' [12:32]
asciilifeform: 'that is not dead which can eternal lie' (tm) (r) [12:32]
asciilifeform: ... apparently includes DES. [12:32]
asciilifeform: $up Sonnentanz [12:33]
deedbot: Sonnentanz voiced for 30 minutes. [12:33]
asciilifeform: Sonnentanz: hello? [12:33]
mircea_popescu: trinque quite exactly, windows registry per-app. [12:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's reasons we don't condone des. this'd be one of them. [12:42]
phf: asciilifeform: i have this in my erc http://paste.lisp.org/display/324144 erc-lurker-state is internal hash that erc maintains on its own of people who have talked in the last 24h by default, people not in that list are considered lurkers. you can use erc-lurker-hide-list to hide certain messages from lurkers in my case JOIN/PART/QUIT, the extra erc-display-message advice is to send those message to server buffer instead of totally [12:48]
phf: hiding them. [12:48]
asciilifeform: symmetric ciphers have period, just like any other prng, nyooz at 11. [12:48]
phf: something to consider :> [12:48]
asciilifeform: phf: this is quite spiffy, but not yet enough to make me use erc. [12:49]
phf: oh, wait, what are you using? [12:49]
mircea_popescu: phf i don't want to hide anything. [12:49]
asciilifeform: ^ [12:49]
asciilifeform: i strongly dislike client-side filters for anything. [12:49]
asciilifeform: ecological hygiene is the Right Thing. [12:50]
asciilifeform: not blindfolding of self. [12:50]
mircea_popescu: i also agree with the general point [12:50]
phf: it doesn't hide, it redirects it elsewhere. to places where i rarely ever read it.. [12:50]
mircea_popescu: ... [12:50]
phf: ok ok [12:50]
mircea_popescu: shinohai was it that originally not posted in right place ? [12:51]
phf: it worked better when i had the patience to exist on large channels (#lisp for example), but now i'm checking erc-lurker-state it's the exhaustive list of all the people i even have on all of the channels [12:52]
mircea_popescu: heh. [12:53]
mircea_popescu: wait, lisp is large ?! [12:54]
mircea_popescu: join #lisp [12:54]
phf: 450 according to /list #lisp [12:54]
mircea_popescu: ahaha look at that, my cloak outranks XachX's cloak [12:54]
phf: python is 1946, though it stopped being at all useful past 2005 or so [12:55]
mircea_popescu: remarkably quiet innit. [12:55]
shinohai: mircea_popescu: the eulora post? [12:56]
mircea_popescu: shinohai yea [12:56]
trinque: I have started lurking in #clim to see how gabriel_laddel's climwars are going. [12:56]
shinohai: Nah it's in the same place, just finally got some attention, I went back and bumped it a few times. [12:56]
mircea_popescu: i suppose the unwritten codex of the place is "nothing exists before the third bump" [12:56]
phf: #lisp? it has pockets of activity, but there's a decent level of signal inforcement [12:56]
mircea_popescu: enforcement ? [12:57]
phf: yes [12:57]
* phf afk [12:57]
shinohai: Yeah tardstalk is a strange place, at least 5 PM's already calling this a scam before the Turkish guy showed up, so now blockchain proofs. [13:00]
asciilifeform: $up abrr [13:00]
deedbot: abrr voiced for 30 minutes. [13:00]
mircea_popescu: well i hope you're having fun. [13:00]
mircea_popescu: "<audrow> pipping: I see. Femlisp seems good. I think femlisp, LLA, and GSLL meet my requirements. Do you have any idea how to compare the performance of various libraries, short of trying them all?" << ok, i must say i am deeply impressed with those snr enforcement measures :D [13:01]
* mircea_popescu parts. [13:01]
asciilifeform: http://www.femlisp.org << ? [13:01]
mircea_popescu: yeah [13:01]
asciilifeform: 'FEMLISP is a Common Lisp framework for solving partial differential equations with the help of the finite element method (FEM).' [13:01]
asciilifeform: what did mircea_popescu think it was ? [13:01]
trinque: i [13:01]
mircea_popescu: not my objection. [13:01]
mircea_popescu: "these women seem like they may be what i want to fuck. any way to know which i'd enjoy without actually fucking anything ?" [13:02]
asciilifeform: asker presumably wanted a crib sheet. i.e. benchmark. [13:02]
mircea_popescu: "dude, why are you at the brothel again ?" [13:02]
asciilifeform: 'show me table of chicks ranked by kegel pressure in newton-metres' [13:02]
mircea_popescu: dude who wants benchmark and doesn't have own benchmark is a strange construction. [13:02]
abrr: hi i am here for 0.01 BTC bitcoin talk [13:02]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-27#811154 << mircea_popescu see also. [13:02]
a111: Logged on 2014-08-27 01:00 asciilifeform: 'pardon my cynical twist, but what are you doing with that 20,000×20,000 double-precision floating point matrix you say you need to invert _today_? If you answer "nutt'n, I jus kinda wondered what it'd be like, you know", you should be very happy that I am most likely more than 3000 miles away from you, or I would come over and slap you hard.' [13:02]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no question specifically was not "where is their loop execution time listed" [13:03]
mircea_popescu: aha, exactly that. [13:03]
asciilifeform: then yes. [13:03]
shinohai: mircea_popescu well i hope you're having fun. <<< least I could do in exchange for the #trilema girl [13:03]
mircea_popescu: wait, you actually ended up with her ? [13:03]
shinohai: we talk on phone every day now lol. [13:05]
abrr: what i must do for 0.01 BTC ? [13:06]
mircea_popescu: win. [13:07]
abrr: how? can you explain [13:08]
asciilifeform: abrr: are you here as part of mircea_popescu's 'pay for tits' program ? [13:08]
mircea_popescu: abrr i was talking to shinohai what you have to do is register your gpg key with deedbot and get the game client running. you got either of these ? [13:09]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no that's 0.02 iirc. [13:09]
mircea_popescu: see ? in-band coding. [13:09]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah, i had this notion that it was discounted recently. [13:09]
mircea_popescu: yes from 0.1 [13:09]
* asciilifeform digs in log [13:09]
asciilifeform: ah yes. [13:09]
abrr: not yet [13:10]
mircea_popescu: aite. you running windows ? [13:10]
shinohai: lol [13:13]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how do you stand the barn folk? what do they contribute to your game world ? [13:13]
mircea_popescu: labour [13:13]
mircea_popescu: just like irl. eulora is actually ~that~ successful simulation. [13:14]
asciilifeform: of what use is brute labour in a sim world ? [13:14]
shinohai: Same as owning slaves in real life. [13:14]
asciilifeform: count me as naive, but i gotta ask [13:14]
mircea_popescu: well specifically - low quality items. [13:14]
asciilifeform: shinohai: real life has dishes to wash. [13:14]
asciilifeform: and floors to mop. [13:14]
mircea_popescu: see asciilifeform if i dig up a flotsam claim, i get flotsam quality 250ish. when they do it, quality 9. [13:14]
shinohai: Which slave will happily or not-so-happily perform. [13:15]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's the gain of having the 9 around ? makes the fella with the 250 feel extra-31333337 ? [13:15]
mircea_popescu: no it's a volume-vs-quality issue. sometimes i just need a lot of cruddy flotsam for a job it's wasteful to use hand carved 1700 bedposts for it, so to speak. [13:16]
asciilifeform: this is quite reminiscent of ~every little kid's question to father about movies, 'how come nobody shits' [13:17]
mircea_popescu: lol [13:17]
asciilifeform: in mircea_popescu's movie - turns out - yes, everyone must. [13:17]
asciilifeform: just like in life. [13:17]
mircea_popescu: aha! [13:17]
asciilifeform: and there, evidently, even must be folk who can do nothing but to take a shit. [13:18]
asciilifeform: just as in life. [13:18]
mircea_popescu: sure can acquire skillz. [13:19]
mircea_popescu: note that it's a very performant simulation. just like irl - "shit" is not "objectively" low value. you could, conceivably (60% shrimp world by mass) arrive in a situation where shit is in high demand meat not so much. [13:19]
mircea_popescu: because some people (me, daniel, diana, etc) are such perfectionists, we kinda debalanced the economy to where it atm has high need of you know, plain old noobs. [13:20]
* asciilifeform can picture it. [13:20]
asciilifeform: (ever have toy 'biosphere globe' ?) [13:20]
mircea_popescu: nop [13:21]
mircea_popescu: always seemed stupid to me [13:21]
asciilifeform: it is instructive, to a kid [13:21]
asciilifeform: i never had one, only seen picture. [13:21]
asciilifeform: and know how it ends. [13:21]
mircea_popescu: aha. [13:21]
mircea_popescu: anyway, this wasn't deliberate part of the design. it's just that it apparently flows from the prime principles that design rests on and implements. [13:22]
asciilifeform: $up abrr [13:22]
deedbot: abrr voiced for 30 minutes. [13:22]
mircea_popescu: every other game company - makes design tests game. s.mg stuck making design, then trying to figure out what design is actually trying to do, so it can be tested p[roperly. [13:23]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand (and this is quite certainly not an expert view) most mmporg tried to use robotic 'npc' to fill this eco niche. [13:23]
mircea_popescu: which is a loud testament of their idiocy - much harder to do BOTH world AND AI at the same time. [13:23]
mircea_popescu: "oh your world won't work, demiurge" "no problem, i'll add ai to it" "idiot" [13:23]
asciilifeform: if anyone knew how to make 'npc rat' as clever as actual meat rat, games with robo-npc would be considerably more interesting ! [13:24]
mircea_popescu: quite. [13:24]
mircea_popescu: and this from someone who doesn't fwis even much care for rats. [13:24]
asciilifeform: well yes, deliberately picked it as example of humbly-clever opponent [13:24]
mircea_popescu: in a contest between man and rat i'll bet on rat. [13:25]
mircea_popescu: no fucking way you catch it. [13:25]
asciilifeform: and try catching 1,001 ! [13:25]
mircea_popescu: even 1 out of 1k is a high enough bar for most people. [13:25]
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-23#1528042 << confirming that people have the keys the internet says they have in person is also appealing [13:46]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-23 23:23 pete_dushenski: true, having whole gang together is rather appealing tho [13:46]
ben_vulpes: and if you missed the opportunity to batch it up in ars, it's probably worth the expense to do the rounds and collect 'em in person [13:47]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i half-expect to hand out otp's at the next meat gathering. [13:50]
asciilifeform: in addition to whatever else. [13:50]
ben_vulpes: grand idea! [13:50]
ben_vulpes: what btw was the name of that cheapo usb sampler you linked forever ago? [13:51]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: may have been 'bus pirate' [13:53]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there are 1,001 of these, and iirc at this point can even be bought in the shops in most civilized cities. [13:54]
asciilifeform: 20bux or so. [13:54]
asciilifeform: sold in same places as spools of wire, solder, etc. [13:54]
ben_vulpes: aye, ty [13:55]
* ben_vulpes is not looking forward to the glorious blood sports of curating otpwads [13:56]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have a little bit of custom hardware for making this bearable, but this 'parachute' is not yet deployed in the field. [13:57]
ben_vulpes: one dongle per contact? [13:58]
asciilifeform: how else. [13:58]
* ben_vulpes nods [13:58]
trinque: how does it differ from simply some storage stick (usb or w/e) with otp matter? [13:59]
ben_vulpes: instead of or different product from cardano? [13:59]
asciilifeform: trinque: you don't want otp to touch a pc. [13:59]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: unrelated. [13:59]
asciilifeform: (different, unnamed device.) [14:00]
trinque: pollock, lol [14:00]
asciilifeform: the most difficult piece of an otp system is the 'ot' [14:00]
asciilifeform: but perhaps we already had this thread. [14:01]
asciilifeform: it is important to remember that otp is not a replacement for public key crypto. [14:01]
asciilifeform: an otpgram is intrinsically an affair between TWO people. [14:02]
asciilifeform: 'harem', to use mircea_popescu's ontology, vs 'forum'. [14:02]
asciilifeform: (there are schemes for public signatures using an otp-like system - lamport's signatures - but they rely on the strength of a hash and do not have the absolute guarantee associated with an ordinary otptron.) [14:03]
mircea_popescu: ima bbl shinohai if moar noobs show up do pacify them for a few hours. [14:04]
asciilifeform: anyway, i only bring up subj because 'what are some things to do at meat meetups.' [14:04]
shinohai: will do [14:04]
asciilifeform: (most folks have not now and never will have any business using an otp. to use it without applying the required ~discipline~ - e.g., are you prepared to keep the pad with you at ALL times, in the shitter, etc. ? does more harm than good.) [14:06]
ben_vulpes: memorize everone's faces to sketch later for handlers [14:07]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: pretty sure all the faces are on www . [14:07]
ben_vulpes: i can think of one that's not, anyways, 'tis a joke. [14:09]
ben_vulpes: ah no i'm wrong on that one [14:10]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i half-expect to hand out otp's at the next meat gathering. << werd. [14:12]
asciilifeform: otp also poses a number of 'konsooomer has come to expect' challenges to typical user. [14:14]
asciilifeform: e.g., are you willing to compose and read messages using something with the ergonomics of a pocket calculator ? [14:14]
asciilifeform: (recall, ancestors had to use pen and paper!) [14:14]
asciilifeform: if one really desires the 'absolute' aspect, there is, yes, a price. [14:15]
mod6: i'd prefer to an enigmatic pile of crap that is gnupg [14:16]
phf: asciilifeform: same problem with gnupg though, when you need to use it, you'd better be certain counterparty can opsec [14:17]
asciilifeform: phf: the thing is necessarily as strong as the weaker party, yes [14:17]
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg [14:17]
asciilifeform: in other news, fire is hot, and water - wet. [14:18]
ben_vulpes: life, hard. [14:19]
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528522 << "with any luck the most we can hope for is that they're tolerable company. if one's halfway qualified to be sent to more school, i'll consider myself lucky. and if we're unlucky, well, there's always the beach and teaching surfing." [14:22]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 14:36 mircea_popescu: diana_coman i wish to meet the father that actually does this. [14:22]
ben_vulpes: reminds me of a conversation with the excavator operator the other day: "how'd you get your wife to let you buy a corvette?" "let?!" [14:26]
phf: well, that's not a noshit for every reader i suppose. if you gnupg with an incompetent person you might end up with things that you want explicitly hidden on record "beyond a reasonable doubt". shit if you gnupg with competent person you ought to think twice what to send, and if tradititional public premediated c&c is a better option [14:26]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there's a working-class thing of 'hand wife the wages to keep it all from going to drink' [14:27]
asciilifeform: appears in wide array of places, from norway to japan [14:27]
thestringpuller: $s otp [14:27]
a111: 783 results for "otp", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=otp [14:27]
asciilifeform: phf: the damage that can be wrought by folks whose hands grow out of arse, is staggering, and more so the more powerful the instrument. [14:27]
phf: if traditional american police (and not even special lizard hitler goons) were to raid your house right now, while you're at work, on a suggestion that you run a drug market, and confiscate every piece of electronics&c they could get their hands on, what is the chance that they will find your key? how much trust should i put in your answer? both are obviously rhetorical questions. presumably, if we were to gpg gram, you will have to [14:33]
phf: apply same heuristic to me [14:33]
asciilifeform: even supposing they find none [14:33]
asciilifeform: there is , today as in 1942, the coke machine. [14:33]
asciilifeform: works just same as in 1542, or 42. [14:34]
asciilifeform: the necessary level of discipline contains tools such as cyanide [14:35]
asciilifeform: or, my own 'trademark', to build systems that will survive one's own cokemachining and betrayal. [14:35]
asciilifeform: (for which the toolkit includes, e.g., 'fits-in-head') [14:35]
asciilifeform: there are also such things as 'canary', but they tend to 'cry wolf', like burglar alarms. [14:37]
asciilifeform: 'oops i went on vacation and forgot' 'mmok' [14:37]
asciilifeform: historically successful partizan organizations assumed betrayal, blackmail, and torture, as facts of life, and routed around the damage on best-effort basis (e.g., cell compartmentalization.) [14:39]
asciilifeform: i fully expect to be killed at some point, and in such a way that usg gets some or all of my key material. [14:41]
asciilifeform: if this becomes obvious IMMEDIATELY when it happens, it means that i have done my work here CORRECTLY. [14:41]
asciilifeform: phf: do you remember the 'brainwallet' thread ? [14:46]
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: actually that's misconception that arose during the "everquest" era of bullshit [14:46]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ..? [14:46]
phf: asciilifeform: which one? [14:46]
asciilifeform: phf: where i argued that the ~only~ genuine advantage of a physical key is that it is possible to destroy the only copy [14:47]
phf: ah right [14:47]
thestringpuller: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528911 [14:47]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 17:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand (and this is quite certainly not an expert view) most mmporg tried to use robotic 'npc' to fill this eco niche. [14:47]
asciilifeform: phf: and, granted, nobody is storing 1TB of otp inside his head. [14:48]
thestringpuller: game AI is pretty advance on most fronts, it's not trying "to be human". For instance being hunted in a stealth game. If they really wanted to, they could make the AI find you EVERY time. A game of hide and go seek that's impossible to win. So the in-between is this "puzzle-like" element. [14:49]
thestringpuller: See Hitman or Metal Gear for examples. [14:49]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ai that finds you because it ~knows where you are~ is not ai. [14:50]
phf: ^ [14:50]
thestringpuller: i wasn't saying that. [14:50]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: which is why games like civ1 had braindead computer opponent, and certain others - e.g., galciv - were famous for 'interesting ai' [14:50]
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: okay. so in game of hide and go seek in kojima's world. AI is like player but more liek child. It can see, it can hear, it can even smell. So if player is running in rain and footsteps appear, AI follows players trail. If AI hears suspicious noise in certain area it goes and "looks around". The thoroughness of its hunt is relative to difficulty. I was saying more if you want to go the "purist" route. You can make the hi [14:52]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: message got cut ? [14:53]
thestringpuller: where? [14:53]
asciilifeform: 'You can make the hi' [14:53]
phf: "You can make the hi" [14:53]
thestringpuller: hide and seek aspect nearly impossible. [14:53]
asciilifeform: ah. [14:54]
phf: the impossibility in this case is inverse relation to "knowing where you are", not to "ai". because making ai with limited sensors (like by say using same set of sensors as what you have) find you is a tricky problem [14:55]
phf: yes, you can make ai that can smell you all through the field, but then it's equivalent to "knowing where you are", and no ai is involved. it's simply a machine that can pinpoint a location based on small with p reliability [14:56]
thestringpuller: phf this is level design. [14:57]
phf: *smell [14:57]
thestringpuller: with sensors you can program the robots to find you every time [14:57]
thestringpuller: without knowing location of player [14:57]
phf: thestringpuller: you're speaking with authority from not knowing, and there's no point for me to continue this conversation [14:57]
phf: but if you actually believe that, there's a very lucrative Lockheed martin contract i can hook you up with [14:58]
thestringpuller: you're assuming the level is of infinite complexity, that is it exists like the natural world. That's not normally the case the level is deliberately designed so the rovers that are npcs glide along it like an amusement park ride. [14:58]
shinohai: http://archive.is/I0dX8 "why should the rest of the network be crippled because you have an irrational desire to validate every single Bitcoin transaction?" [15:38]
asciilifeform: ahahahahahahaha [15:39]
* asciilifeform falls down. [15:39]
BingoBoingo: bc,stats [15:53]
gribble: Current Blocks: 426702 | Current Difficulty: 2.1737548275723764E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 427391 | Next Difficulty In: 689 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 17 hours, 15 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [15:53]
BingoBoingo: ticker --market all [15:53]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 579.21, vol: 2889.13844665 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 580.301, vol: 6945.43003 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 580.62, vol: 5184.79806465 | GDAX BTCUSD last: 579.66, vol: 4178.90697916 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 579.62931, vol: 62215.09570000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 581.87, vol: 501.38404931 | Gemini BTCUSD last: 579.62, vol: 920.88697208 | OKCoin BTCUSD last: 580.3728, vol: (1 more message) [15:53]
BingoBoingo: more [15:56]
gribble: 398533.46652 | Volume-weighted last average: 580.265285647 [15:56]
shinohai: well BingoBoingo it looks as if our friend covertress got some Bittrex suppositories today. [15:57]
BingoBoingo: Oh? [15:57]
shinohai: 51% attacked her coin, dumped on trex for 5.614718020889983 [15:57]
asciilifeform: shinohai: lol, who did [16:08]
* shinohai shrugs [16:09]
trinque: inb4 covertesscoin classic [16:13]
shinohai: xD [16:14]
* asciilifeform recalls covertress's 'veeeeeery speshssul offer' for mircea_popescu . perhaps ~this~ was it. [16:17]
shinohai: Now can only hope very speshul offer includes a $3000+ bailout [16:18]
asciilifeform: hey, if it comes with some luscious flesh, someone might take.. [16:19]
shinohai: Certainly not my type of luscious flesh, but then again I prefer brunettes. [16:23]
wyrdmantis: lol shinohai who 51% attacked what coin? [16:25]
shinohai: `unknown entities` and coin was the Krypton-eth-clone [16:26]
wyrdmantis: my brain hurts [16:28]
shinohai: Ethereum tends to do that. [16:29]
wyrdmantis: the rabbit shithole run more deep than i thought [16:31]
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies << obligatory. [16:48]
shinohai: ^____________^ [16:50]
wyrdmantis: and in other brain-hurts https://gendal.me/2016/08/24/corda-an-introduction/amp/ [16:57]
asciilifeform: ^ complete with non-pasteable screenshit-of-pdf abstract. [16:58]
asciilifeform: a sure winner!11111 [16:58]
asciilifeform: esp. with mike hearn! [16:59]
asciilifeform: BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY!111 [17:00]
asciilifeform: kinda reminiscent of usg's incarnation of pgp. [17:00]
shinohai: blockHEAD tech [17:00]
asciilifeform: folks who've worked under the u.s. pentagon, will know what i am speaking of. [17:00]
asciilifeform: gnarly plugin for microshit (yes) 'outlook' (yes). [17:00]
asciilifeform: key (iirc 1024b) lives on dumbcard. [17:01]
asciilifeform: (which gets inserted into the comp every morning to log in, and no, the card does not light up when signing) [17:01]
asciilifeform: the hearnia strategy, 'we'll steal your thing and make idiot version and sell it to EVERYONE as the Real Thing' was tried, yes, with pgp. [17:03]
asciilifeform: let'em try also with bitcoin, why not. [17:03]
asciilifeform: (or, on a very distant planet, it was tried with 'clojure' vs common lisp.) [17:04]
asciilifeform: but for so long as there are folks who remember what the Real Deal looks like - idiot is left to bite own elbows with frustration. [17:04]
asciilifeform: later tell mircea_popescu was this http://trilema.com/2011/epifania-cu-pedofilia piece ever translated ? [17:25]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [17:25]
asciilifeform: in other 'holy shit, this claptrap is still around' nonnews, http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/m-seeps.htm [18:08]
asciilifeform: (and they build things!111 -- http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/research/Vortrap.htm ) [18:08]
asciilifeform: the interesting part re ^ is that the depicted fixture will indeed separate water... but not into 'magic' and 'nonmagic', but... h2o and d2o. [18:09]
asciilifeform: wonder how much of what these schmucks are experiencing, is the effect of drinking heavywater. [18:09]
asciilifeform: there are few folks more 'batshit' than cargocultist who manages to build a ~working~ glider. [18:10]
wyrdmantis: asciilifeform is that zero point energy nonsense? [18:58]
asciilifeform: wyrdmantis: nope, it is even deeper 'magic water voodoo. as was fashionable in 1960s. [20:11]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/UeHY6 << in other gpglulz. [20:15]
shinohai: Maybe he should just switch to keybase.io too [20:16]
asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/24/equation_group_exploit_expanded_to_target_cisco_924_asa_boxes << in yet other lulz. [20:17]
asciilifeform: 'Hungary-based security consultancy SilentSignal has ported a public exploit to newer models of Cisco's Adaptive Security Appliance (ASA). .... The exploit was restricted to versions 8.4.(4) and earlier of ASA boxes and has now been expanded to 9.2.(4).' [20:17]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform turns out wasn't tranbslated. [20:28]
* asciilifeform often feels lame asking for a transl of a piece written in a reasonably european lang [20:29]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528679 << not all the children are fit to live all the parents are liable to lie to themselves on this score. this impedance mismatch is the first and in plenty of approximations the only business of social science. [20:29]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 15:41 diana_coman: true that my thought there was informed by the fact that a 2 years old can be happily kept occupied with perfectly-adequate stuff IF someone points them to it on the other hand if left on their own, they will ~always find a destructive thing to do [20:29]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ima add it to list. but first i wanna finish the anhero niceguy. [20:30]
asciilifeform: no rush. [20:30]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528952 << actually it's not altogether clear the "announced star pattern meet" is the best way to go. too much logistical difficulty involved in syncing people and in defending an agglomeration - for relatively little benefit. [20:34]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 18:04 asciilifeform: anyway, i only bring up subj because 'what are some things to do at meat meetups.' [20:34]
mircea_popescu: makes much more sense to do it pairwise or at any rate p2pish [20:34]
mircea_popescu: decentralize conferences! [20:34]
asciilifeform: the old sages knew this. [20:34]
asciilifeform: ask lenin. [20:34]
mircea_popescu: let's say it was an early luxury we did for a time enjoy [20:35]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528972 << there is, believe it or not, this large population of "kind bear" out there army, construciton etc full of them. entirely subbie to some rando woman, who half the time has no fucking clue / is just bitchy. [20:38]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 18:26 ben_vulpes: reminds me of a conversation with the excavator operator the other day: "how'd you get your wife to let you buy a corvette?" "let?!" [20:38]
mircea_popescu: seems very much a "ustards do chivalry, like they saw in rome, france" [20:38]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528973 << i don't understand how you think gpg works. explain this to me ? [20:39]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 18:26 phf: well, that's not a noshit for every reader i suppose. if you gnupg with an incompetent person you might end up with things that you want explicitly hidden on record "beyond a reasonable doubt". shit if you gnupg with competent person you ought to think twice what to send, and if tradititional public premediated c&c is a better option [20:39]
asciilifeform: i read phf's thing as simply 'you are counting on other side not to simply lose the plaintext, and not to shoot out both of your feet by sending an intended signed ciphrogram in the clear' [20:40]
mircea_popescu: so what exactly is your interest if they lose the plaintext ? [20:41]
asciilifeform: lose as in 'reveal publicly' [20:41]
mircea_popescu: wait. are you conflating encryption and signing ? [20:41]
asciilifeform: well, not me [20:41]
mircea_popescu: so then what do i care that he is saying that i told him "x" ? [20:42]
asciilifeform: it is not uncommon to send a signed pgpgram. [20:43]
mircea_popescu: it is also not uncommon to prepare food after shitting without washing hands. [20:44]
mircea_popescu: what criteria is this, common. [20:44]
asciilifeform: habitually sending (and more importantly, acting on) unsigned pgpgrams has own set of risks. [20:44]
mircea_popescu: encryption and cryptographic signatures solve opposite problems : secrecy and publicity. [20:44]
asciilifeform: tru! [20:45]
mircea_popescu: but anyway, sure, "people have come to expect" all sorts of weird shit. [20:46]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1528993 << mno, lord british did it too. [20:47]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 18:46 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: actually that's misconception that arose during the "everquest" era of bullshit [20:47]
mircea_popescu: worked just as badly. [20:47]
mircea_popescu: eve tried it too. worked just as badly. [20:47]
mircea_popescu: it's entirely perennial, no mmo ever escaped it. [20:47]
asciilifeform: such as for instance some of the folks here may have 'come to expect' ~not~ being deluged with crafted messages from third parties claiming to be from X [20:47]
asciilifeform: (notice, if the tale of znort is to be taken at face value, the only thing that kept his edifice from burning down was a pgp sig.) [20:47]
mircea_popescu: kinda what they're for. [20:48]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1529001 << seeing through walls is not ai. [20:48]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-24 18:49 thestringpuller: game AI is pretty advance on most fronts, it's not trying "to be human". For instance being hunted in a stealth game. If they really wanted to, they could make the AI find you EVERY time. A game of hide and go seek that's impossible to win. So the in-between is this "puzzle-like" element. [20:48]
mircea_popescu: imo the best ai any game ever displayed to date was pacman. [20:49]
mircea_popescu: not surpassed so far not likely to ever be (it also helps that... obviously) [20:49]
BingoBoingo: Classic Pac Man also has way to soundly defeat AI [20:51]
BingoBoingo: "blindspots" if I recall [20:51]
mircea_popescu: it is a solved problem. the only way you don't get killed if the implementation is, willingly or accidentally, bad. [20:52]
mircea_popescu: it's actually a reasonably interesting and very studied problem. [20:53]
mircea_popescu: (it's also not terribly fun to play over the age of about 12 or so, for this very reason. supaplex, which had dumber scissors (always left/right hand rule) AND allowd you to turn them around was much more interesting game (when scissors applied)) [20:55]
mircea_popescu: "better ai" is no improvement when it traduces in practice to "must play a game with known/computable solution" . [20:56]
BingoBoingo: In other NPC's https://archive.is/i8Ikm [21:01]
mircea_popescu: yeah ok this is pretty good reminds one of sa of its glory days. [21:04]
BingoBoingo: One can't Elliot Rodger all the nouns [21:07]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529125 << it was glorious . [21:11]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-25 00:55 mircea_popescu: (it's also not terribly fun to play over the age of about 12 or so, for this very reason. supaplex, which had dumber scissors (always left/right hand rule) AND allowd you to turn them around was much more interesting game (when scissors applied)) [21:11]
mircea_popescu: esp as a kid, the first time you figure out you CAN fucking turn them. because at first you know, kids are cowardly, they kinda lose control at the crucial moment. [21:12]
* asciilifeform listens to music loop from supaplex in his head while reading this. [21:12]
mircea_popescu: genius game from this perspective in any discussion of "video games help kids" i always think of supaplex. [21:12]
thestringpuller: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529117 << they don't see through walls in regards to smell. This was more a system designed by Kojima in MGS3 for dogs to follow a path of the player as he would drip "particles" into the ground the dog could track. [21:52]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-25 00:48 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-24#1529001 << seeing through walls is not ai. [21:52]
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller ai is ai, sensory advantages are sensory advantages. different categories. [21:53]
thestringpuller: Sure. But the notion of game AI "knowing the player's location" isn't really a thing these days. [21:54]
thestringpuller: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529126 << probably why stealth games have the most "interesting" ai. It's a puzzle with many solutions. :P [21:55]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-25 00:56 mircea_popescu: "better ai" is no improvement when it traduces in practice to "must play a game with known/computable solution" . [21:55]
mircea_popescu: possibly [22:18]
mircea_popescu: tbh i haven't played one since thief. [22:18]
asciilifeform: 'the thinking man's Doom.' [22:19]
phf: mircea_popescu: you're totally right, i have no idea what i was thinking [22:19]
mircea_popescu: you know i clip these and store them in a large wooden chest. [22:20]
* asciilifeform clips the other kind, and stores in very small brass chest. [22:21]
phf: so i shouldn't trust myself to run opsec either [22:22]
mircea_popescu: phf it helps if you THINK about it. [22:23]
mircea_popescu: as evidenced by the fact that once you stop to consider it, a minute's all it takes. [22:24]
mircea_popescu: ("would you trust surgeon x to cut out your appendix ?" "it depends. would he be watching tv while doing it ?") [22:24]
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure the case of breach was yet born when the problem truly was "nobody could have predicted". virtually all go "o hey, if we as much as gave a shit for seven straight seconds..." [22:25]
phf: well, it's a simon says game. "in step 27, sidestep 5 you pushed button A instead of B. game over" [22:29]
mircea_popescu: it is at that. [22:29]
mircea_popescu: you know the esprit de finesse / esprit de geometrie classification right ? [22:29]
phf: no [22:29]
mircea_popescu: turns out topic's been studied by eg, pascal, ever so long ago. [22:30]
phf: actually i think we had a thread about it [22:30]
mircea_popescu: can't recall if it was back on otc or no. [22:31]
phf: i think i'm actually misremembering, but i found pensées. "congratulations, your civilization has discovered: writing" [22:38]
asciilifeform: '...discovered: despotism!' (tm) (r) [22:39]
mircea_popescu: lol [22:42]
phf: stealth computer games are best suited for ai problems, because the algorithms fall under a very specific category of differential blind search games with mobile hider studied and analyzed since the 60s as part of differential games subfield of game theory (DoD likes to throw money at stuff like that, and the first treatment of subject is by a RAND corporation guy). there's no known optimal strategy for >2 node networks, but there are [23:06]
phf: interesting strategies (and since games are time dependant, hence differential, they are really algorithms) that you can easily implement by reading relevant papers. but to suggest that the solution is "wins every time" is a claim about the search space or claim about a game theoretical breakthrough. since thestringpuller said "well, they are very small levels" it's probably about node count. there are probably very impressive mixed [23:06]
phf: strategies that you can put in a bot. of course in offline computer game you're looking at repeated games where one player can learn and observe strategy and the other one can not, so in repeated search games the human player theoretically will always wins. (probably in online games it's still an arms race of recognizing the strategy and coding/tweaking the strategy) [23:06]
mircea_popescu: aha. [23:08]
mircea_popescu: there's other considerations in play. optimal strategies usually tend to be too stable to be "fun" so the designer is stuck with a pretty complex bag. [23:10]
mircea_popescu: (it stands to reason that if YOU are trying to find the enemy / rabbit / whatever you want to take stationary positions and watch yet people don't usually want to play a game against ai that does mostly this.) [23:11]
mircea_popescu: but in general, on the basis of the horrid ad&d of average gameplayer, computer should be capable of getting pretty close to "every time" just by... you know, not being a crazed teenager. [23:12]
mircea_popescu: kinda why it's so scandalous the arab teens are ripping uncle sam's overtrained, overfed volunteers a new hole. [23:12]
phf: hehe, actually ambush strategy is one of the reasons there's no known solutions for general networks, which must be a bummer for dod [23:13]
mircea_popescu: aha. [23:13]
mircea_popescu: of all the billions they wasted, this particular stuff is not the worst. [23:14]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/08/after-years-of-rumours-coinbase-adds-litecoin-support-kind-of/ << Qntra - After Years Of Rumours Coinbase Adds Litecoin Support, Kind Of [23:15]
BingoBoingo: The power move in Civ 2 was to swiftly revolution your govt into Fundamentalism after getting the bomb and rushing your enemies with cheap fanatics. [23:15]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo civ was very weak because it had a number of "rush". i could consistently win rushing the (large landmass) globe with cavalries. [23:16]
mircea_popescu: usually played the russians doing this :D [23:16]
mircea_popescu: (great spot with horses in the forests there for it.) [23:16]
mircea_popescu: then you could rush with knights. then you could rush with etc. [23:16]
BingoBoingo: AHA. The rules.txt file and sprite files were great introduction to "Computer Game is not opaque monolith" [23:17]
mircea_popescu: but the cavalry rushes were pretty sad affairs specifically because a) game ended cca 1k bc b) the score was otherwise unbeatable c) wtf srsly. [23:18]
mircea_popescu: experience shows it is exceedingly difficult to build 4X games that don't die thus (more recent players will know this as "zerging") [23:19]
mircea_popescu: dune 2 solved the problem by a) making the quads shit and b) overpowering the turrets AND c) forcing you to keep resetting your base through "levels". [23:19]
mircea_popescu: none of which is an honest solution. [23:19]
mircea_popescu: heroes 2/3 had much better solution through army dampening model (you DID NOT lose army!). at least imo. [23:20]
BingoBoingo: IRL has excellent solution of simply debuffing most units into uselessness [23:24]
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