Forum logs for 20 May 2016

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
Framedragger: [06:33]
Framedragger: i want to write something like this, but dread the fact that i would have to review a shitton of shitty attempts. one approach, i guess, is to just dismiss those attempts, come up with a sane and straightforward design, and implementing without too much fuss... [06:33]
Framedragger: s/implementing/implement/ [06:33]
Framedragger: dunno, store/verify group membership via messages on OP_RETURNs (dunno if folks here frown upon storing data in OP_RETURNs) [06:48]
shinohai: later tell BingoBoingo [07:41]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [07:41]
shinohai: I kinda mangled that last sentence though. [07:45]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> hard enough that bush's idiots couldn't do it unless the thing beaconed. << /me remembers that lulz [10:12]
BingoBoingo: shinohai: looking at it, will patch [10:14]
shinohai: kk thanx BingoBoingo [10:14]
BingoBoingo: shinohai: correction, When plea out, you aren't a militia hero anymore [10:15]
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Imma have to chop this up a bit moar. [10:17]
shinohai: Feel free ... take it and run. [10:18]
shinohai: >.> [10:18]
deedbot: [Qntra] One Oregon Liberator Pleas To Impeding Federal Officers - [10:29]
BingoBoingo: In other lulz [10:32]
BingoBoingo: Also [10:38]
shinohai: ^ Of course they'd say that THEY LIKE GOV SUBSIDIES [10:39]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger answer't [10:40]
mircea_popescu: well of course they do ? [10:40]
mircea_popescu: whole country exists entirely as an exercise in subsidy. [10:41]
mircea_popescu: govt "borrows" in europe, pours the cash into subsidies, defaults borrows more. [10:41]
mircea_popescu: it's usa 202. [10:41]
mircea_popescu: 2020* [10:41]
* BingoBoingo pretty happy with yesterday's string trimmer purchase. Just kinda regrets going cordless electric and not 2-cycle. [10:44]
mircea_popescu: baiting detected [10:45]
mircea_popescu: but speaking of reddit, check out how famous asciilifeform is : [10:45]
mircea_popescu: i had no idea! [10:45]
asciilifeform: lel that's oooold [10:45]
asciilifeform: not even the one i posted, either [10:46]
asciilifeform: or hm [10:46]
asciilifeform: it is. [10:46]
asciilifeform: nm [10:46]
mircea_popescu: not that old [10:46]
asciilifeform: yeah this was the main thread [10:47]
asciilifeform: if you 'sort by new' you will see that it ends with 'warning!11111 they faked it all' [10:47]
asciilifeform: << BingoBoingo will be delighted to learn that when my father was a boy, his father bought a petrol-powered refrigerator. [10:48]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 14:44 BingoBoingo pretty happy with yesterday's string trimmer purchase. Just kinda regrets going cordless electric and not 2-cycle. [10:48]
asciilifeform: (possibly kerosene) [10:48]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'll have to disabuse you of the notion that "the content" ie "what it says" matters in that context. [10:49]
BingoBoingo: Aha, those are still around here. Popular for hunting camps and barns. [10:49]
mircea_popescu: strictly a matter of numbers, any 800 vote / 300 comment thread is exactly equal to any other. [10:49]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the sense that one piece of rubbish is same as another ? [10:49]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I ended up going cordless because I wanted the battery. [10:50]
mircea_popescu: in the sense that you don't sit around to sniff the anthill, but merely care how tall it is. [10:50]
asciilifeform: hm [10:50]
mircea_popescu: to the ants themselves they're distinct. [10:51]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i will be passing through chicago soon, anything esp. interesting i ought to see ? [10:54]
BingoBoingo: The riverwalk. [10:54]
BingoBoingo: Preferably at night [10:54]
shinohai: r/btc "Our latest ad campaign got us 61 clicks, we're winning!!!!" [10:54]
mircea_popescu: bejesus. [10:54]
mircea_popescu: for comparison, yielded > 500 email responses. clicks not so countable. [10:55]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: thanks, appreciate it. but damn does it depress me a bit, then [10:55]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The river is the best place to throw up after drinking in the city [10:55]
Framedragger: "but guys this is gonna take fo-eva" [10:55]
Framedragger: "i just want a secure social site right nao" [10:55]
Framedragger: :( [10:55]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger this problem re-occurs here with some frequency. #trilema and tmsr generally are for adults. [10:55]
Framedragger: i'm gonna read more logs [10:56]
mircea_popescu: this means, a marathon, not a sprint and most things "people generally" count as a marathon here are still a sprint [10:56]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: more of an anabasis than marathon... [10:57]
Framedragger: ("right nao" was much in jest... but yes...) [10:57]
mircea_popescu: anabasis being the one true marathon. yes, good point, i shoulda said that. [10:57]
Framedragger: more logs it is [10:57]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Also consider seeing if you can get into Fermi lab [10:58]
asciilifeform: lel why would they let me in [10:58]
asciilifeform: i dun have my usg thrall face card no moar (and it was only good for dod ministries anyway) [10:59]
BingoBoingo: Oh then you could try to go see the site of that reator they built under the sportsball bleachers [11:09]
BingoBoingo: I think they just have a dumb statue there though. [11:11]
asciilifeform: yeah and if they let me into the white house i could play in the bowling alley. [11:11]
asciilifeform: what of it. [11:11]
BingoBoingo: Nah reactor was on University of Chicago campus, library where the stadium was [11:12]
mircea_popescu: you bowl ?! [11:12]
BingoBoingo: You could always just take the El to random southside neighborhoods or play "James Lafond Presents" [11:12]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's to do in random neighbourhoods ? [11:12]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sure [11:12]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Observe the fauna [11:13]
BingoBoingo: Chicago's kind of a shithole. [11:13]
mircea_popescu: what do you mean! it's a town so chic they put it in the name! chic-ago! [11:13]
BingoBoingo: Like New York if New York was aware of its small penis [11:13]
mircea_popescu: (anyone seen victor/victoria ?) [11:13]
BingoBoingo: Anyways best thing in CHicago isn't even in Chicago. Go down to Joilet and tour the old prison. [11:15]
BingoBoingo: They do guided tours [11:15]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, random guy on reddit points out to a very lulzy attack indeed. consider : you boot up 1k VMs running the same os, and upon boot-up you sshgen. how many keys share primes even if they are properly generated ? [11:16]
mircea_popescu: there's no way to check for this "multiplicity", it's essentially brainwallets-for-computers. [11:16]
mircea_popescu: we absoluely gotta get those ssh keys in there. jurov you actually working on it ? [11:16]
jurov: yes, going to prep the csv for download [11:17]
mircea_popescu: win. [11:17]
mircea_popescu: Moduli Waiting for Test: 20 << this is like... permanently. pretty incredible, so "the public" puts in keys at about the rate of 1 every 3 minutes for a month now ? [11:18]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oh last night i cracked this enigma [11:19]
asciilifeform: take a careful look at the modulus count [11:19]
asciilifeform: it moves +5-6 a day [11:19]
mircea_popescu: right. i was just looking, 2 days ago it was 2151840 [11:20]
asciilifeform: turns out folks are pushing the 'reload' button [11:20]
mircea_popescu: now it's 53 [11:20]
asciilifeform: i'ma remove it today. [11:20]
mircea_popescu: oh. [11:20]
asciilifeform: it is literally worse than useless. [11:20]
mircea_popescu: nah, leave it, what's it cost you. [11:20]
asciilifeform: well it is entirely pointless [11:20]
mircea_popescu: so ? [11:20]
mircea_popescu: giving the web pointless buttons is what the web is all about. [11:20]
asciilifeform: yeah but it creates this strange picture of '19 moduli waiting...' eternally [11:20]
mircea_popescu: not putting more in deliberately is one thing but actually taking time to remove them... forget it, do it sometime when you do stuff with the site. [11:21]
mircea_popescu: i thought you hated interruptions. [11:21]
mircea_popescu: well now we know what it is, and otherwise, who cares. [11:21]
asciilifeform: next revision, i'ma pull it, it is silly [11:21]
mircea_popescu: logically. [11:22]
asciilifeform: << more interesting if you pin the time-of-day down. [11:23]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 15:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, random guy on reddit points out to a very lulzy attack indeed. consider : you boot up 1k VMs running the same os, and upon boot-up you sshgen. how many keys share primes even if they are properly generated ? [11:23]
mircea_popescu: << this is actually pretty fucking lulzy history. [11:24]
asciilifeform: (even a rubbish rng can masquerade as a usable one until you interate through the epochal times) [11:24]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but even as a very low effort thing you know, "everyone's on aws". and they all use the same fashionable shitstack. and there's... millions of them. [11:24]
mircea_popescu: this is like the anti-vaccine. not immunity through the herd, but insecurity through belonging to a herd. [11:24]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: noshit.jpg [11:24]
mircea_popescu: a process that'd have been perfectly safe on its own becomes deeply insecure when part of "the community". [11:25]
mircea_popescu: kinda how cannibalism actually works. [11:25]
asciilifeform: << this was hyped worldwide, but for some reason when it turned out that ~3 years of freebsd, ending some time last year, had NO ENTROPY in rng, it was ~nowhere. [11:25]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 15:24 mircea_popescu: << this is actually pretty fucking lulzy history. [11:25]
mircea_popescu: lol [11:26]
mircea_popescu: lmao. i dunno why they have a page about how php sucks, and nothing about javascript. apparently you can't EVEN DO MATH in js (9007199254740993/28059810762433 === 321 is false). [11:31]
mircea_popescu: so it has alll the === lulz, but also... nonfunctioning arithmetic. [11:31]
asciilifeform: no ints, even. [11:32]
asciilifeform: (~nobody believes this when first told) [11:32]
mircea_popescu: well that's why nonfunctioning arithmetic. [11:32]
asciilifeform: famously described by... guess who, [11:33]
mircea_popescu: anyway Framedragger : just THAT fucks up permanently the notion of "crypto in javascript". [11:33]
mircea_popescu: it's ridiculous beyond belief, all crypto works with ints. [11:33]
mircea_popescu: it's field fucking arithmetic, not omfg engineering slide rule [11:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the pgp in js demo ? [11:34]
mircea_popescu: vaguely ya [11:34]
asciilifeform: it had a massive, fuck-ugly kludge of int lib [11:35]
mircea_popescu: myeah. [11:35]
asciilifeform: to work around all of this [11:35]
mircea_popescu: it's just inhuman, this. [11:35]
Framedragger: "apparently you can't EVEN DO MATH in js" << yes yes YES :/ i knowz... that's why people want a web crypto api (crypto itself implemented in browser).. but the answer to your snarky follow-up "that just adds salt to the wound" is yes.. it's doomed [11:35]
Framedragger: goddamn language was designed in under two weeks [11:36]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the ~only way you're going to end up with a web crypto api in browser is if you/someone builds the social media app discussed and then adds a html parser to it. [11:36]
Framedragger: and accidentally won the netscape wars. or whatever [11:36]
mircea_popescu: and make no mistake, i said it and i'll say it again : this is one of those moments. [11:36]
mircea_popescu: a properly made, functioning this will turn the "browser" period over, entirely and without respite. they'll become what the bbs are. [11:36]
mircea_popescu: all of them. it's a world ender. [11:36]
Framedragger: i hear you. i'm just thinking in more mundane/practical terms, "can i build X without waiting for the everything i'd need for X to also be rewritten" [11:42]
Framedragger: was thinking of simple html parser, too [11:42]
Framedragger: inside the thing [11:42]
Framedragger: i mean let's say one wouldn't depend on gnupg or anything like that. fine. use RSA. but with the (admirable) level of scrutiny employed herein, i'd be wary of even suggesting a single implementation of RSA which would not be shitty. i mean, there is libressl... [11:44]
Framedragger: libressl uses comic sans to deter web people and dummy hipsters. that in itself adds +10 in my book [11:45]
Framedragger: (half-kidding) [11:45]
mircea_popescu: heh. [11:46]
mircea_popescu: libs will be reviewed here post them. [11:46]
mircea_popescu: also, you looked into V any yet ? [11:46]
Framedragger: no but i've heard of it in logs. some approach to patching and (presumably) general version control? or more than that, even? [11:47]
* Framedragger looks for reasons to hate git in logs. (spoiler, i don't hate git.. at least not yet) [11:47]
danielpbarron: git is what, social media masquerading as some sort of programming thing, not unlike how wikipedia is social media masquerading as an encyclopedia [11:51]
mircea_popescu: that's gihub [11:52]
mircea_popescu: git is linus' thing. [11:52]
Framedragger: every time git is confused for github, a kitten dies [11:53]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger read up on v, it's worth the read. more generally, you are ideologically naive, for which reason you're perhaps missing things. for instance, when i say "add a html parser" i do not mean "introduce support for THEIR definitioon of html". rather, i mean "create our own html, and by its presence passively force them to adapt or die". [11:53]
Framedragger: aha [11:53]
Framedragger: ok [11:53]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger actually, the process of creating github and then confusing git for github, aka embrace and extinguish / "rms-ing" is also amply discussed in teh logs :) [11:53]
mircea_popescu: anywya, once mod6 gets that T thing going we can actually create tickets for all this, which'll make the task less insane. [11:54]
mircea_popescu: there's at least a dozen disparate, independently useful items that go into a gossipd. [11:54]
Framedragger: k, i see the.. angle. i suppose you belief in them having to adapt or die comes from most of your endeavours of the kind succeeding? which - don't get me wrong - is very admirable - but, like, it requires napoleonic levels of confidence. not that it's bad in and of itself [11:54]
Framedragger: such new world order [11:55]
Framedragger: nice [11:55]
mircea_popescu: there's no argument to be had with functionality. not all the talk in the world nor all the money nor anything else can stand in front of something that functions. [11:55]
mircea_popescu: as long as your thing functions, that's that. [11:55]
mircea_popescu: to put this in context, perhaps is the best read. [11:56]
Framedragger: hm. i guess your notion of "adoption" is not like many others. i.e., it's not a matter of "whether majority of animals use it", but rather "whether majority of intelligent animals use it", or somesuch. because folks are also super lazy about switching from a broken thing to a more functional and better thing. case in point: much of enterprise software. (not that there may not be good gems there) [11:57]
Framedragger: ok [11:57]
mircea_popescu: but in short : it's not that ~my~ endeavours succeeding there's no personal flair involved here, nor any magic. it's that all the endeavours of a certain type will succeed. [11:57]
Framedragger: i've read quite a few articles but it's still, like, such a small amount [11:58]
Framedragger: right [11:58]
Framedragger: yeah i see [11:58]
mircea_popescu: and as to the other thing : numbers per se are meaningless. if there's a million truck drivers in the world, and 999`990 use a truck that does 10 mpg and i have 10 people using a truck that does 12 mpg, guess who'll be selling and who'll be buying trucking companies in the not so distant future. [11:58]
mircea_popescu: sure, some are hobbists, some may get (for some time, while that lasts) subsidies. [11:59]
mircea_popescu: but that's all temporary and a bandaid for a chainsaw wound. in the end, you don't see many oxcarts carrying freight today. [11:59]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> anywya, once mod6 gets that T thing going we can actually create tickets for all this, which'll make the task less insane. << making daily progress! [12:00]
mircea_popescu: love you. [12:00]
mod6: <3 [12:00]
Framedragger: (heheh in the beginning of that article are you basically quick-tutorialing people about the analytic/synthetic distinction (in a way)? i mean it's about the (possible existence of) truth-conditions of propositions with no reference, but it has this vibe to it) [12:00]
mircea_popescu: more or less. [12:00]
mircea_popescu: trilema is created as a "general purpose for literate people", so it contains lots of mini-versions of otherwise more seriously studied topics. [12:01]
Framedragger: yeah fair enough, regarding numbers, of course that makes sense. but social networks have this nagging thing of critical mass, sometimes. i know this is a naive viewpoint, but with e.g. networks which are for meets-and-greets, you know, location-based circles whatnot, it does require some amount of people for there to be more people. then again, maybe there are more smart folk around than i presume. though that's a dangerous assumption i [12:05]
Framedragger: but i probably overestimate the powa of the folk. [12:07]
mircea_popescu: i don't credit this "network effect" criticality thing. yes, people came up with that particular rebranding of panglossism to sell inept investors on why they should throw money away. it worked. that the sale pitch worked does not make the theory true. [12:07]
Framedragger: sure [12:07]
mircea_popescu: in historical terms, "all good things come to the port city", yes. until the port gets a sand bar. [12:07]
mircea_popescu: then they don't. whoopdedoo. [12:07]
mircea_popescu: the experience of myspace should be informative in this sense. "network effect" is valuable for as long as the median view is that it's cool people there once that goes away, all turner's billions can't fix the suddenly un-critical network effect. [12:10]
Framedragger: re. github, just fyi github is less.. hegemonic these days. gitlab is doing well, and that one's a bit less shit etc. this may sound like a partial solution to a fundamental problem, sure, but mh i dunno. [12:10]
mircea_popescu: also fyi, we're preparing to rape their ssh keys. [12:11]
Framedragger: whose? githubs? everyones? [12:11]
Framedragger: kewl [12:11]
Framedragger: oh i have some of those there.. but they're not important keys anyway. hey that sounds like a nice project [12:11]
mircea_popescu: well since phuctor has a bunch of rsa work already done converting github rsa keys to a usable format and checking them by the same process isn't that tall a step. [12:12]
Framedragger: ahhh hence the conversion effort [12:12]
mircea_popescu: right. [12:13]
Framedragger: noice. [12:13]
mircea_popescu: see above in log why i'm currently expecting to see some horrors. [12:13]
mircea_popescu: and now a linkdump for alf's colleciton : [12:14]
asciilifeform: lel [12:25]
asciilifeform: 1st link 404s [12:25]
mircea_popescu: aww! [12:26]
asciilifeform: the rest - snore. [12:26]
mircea_popescu: << survives in snippets on the web. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: apparently he got phuctored :D [12:27]
asciilifeform: ah that butler [12:28]
mircea_popescu: yeah. [12:28]
asciilifeform: the one vs the anti-fdr coup [12:29]
mircea_popescu: aha. [12:29]
asciilifeform: << complete text. enjoy. [12:29]
mircea_popescu: << even period video [12:30]
asciilifeform: 'Airplane and engine manufacturers felt they, too, should get their just profits out of this war. Why not? Everybody else was getting theirs. So $1,000,000,000 -- count them if you live long enough -- was spent by Uncle Sam in building airplane engines that never left the ground! Not one plane, or motor, out of the billion dollars worth ordered, ever got into a battle in France. Just the same the manufacturers made their little profi [12:31]
asciilifeform: t of 30, 100, or perhaps 300 per cent.' << in case anyone thought this kind of thing were new. [12:31]
mircea_popescu: hey, gotta keep people interested. [12:32]
shinohai: How to get more rubble for your ruble? [12:36]
asciilifeform: shinohai: call saharov [12:38]
Framedragger: asciilifeform do you have an opinion on libressl? sorry if i'm pestering ya [12:39]
Framedragger: i mean it's a largish codebase, but in terms of general approach / effort. borne out of anger towards openssl, all that [12:40]
Framedragger: developed by openbsd folks [12:40]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: ~same crock of shit as openssl. [12:40]
asciilifeform: for same exact reasons. [12:40]
asciilifeform: (massive, unreadable c turd, with plenty of verbatim common with openssl) [12:40]
Framedragger: hmm. i suppose it's massive, yeah [12:41]
mircea_popescu: they've not really had time to do much at any rate how long ago did they split, a year ? [12:41]
Framedragger: two years, i think [12:41]
mircea_popescu: it's one of those cases where the team may be better than the codebase though honestly, the size of the matzah ball hanging on their head means that they'll prolly get crushed if haven't already [12:42]
Framedragger: they started by just choosing to prune certain features off of the beast , thereby removing some particularly bad parts [12:42]
Framedragger: could be a bit quoxotian [12:42]
mircea_popescu: (i've not much followed libressl, chiefly because anyone purporting to do crypto anything that's not in my wot is an outright fraud) [12:42]
Framedragger: *quixotian [12:42]
Framedragger: right, right [12:42]
mircea_popescu: kinda why "make a new html" comes in. there's really no reason to support the bullshit. correct move would have been to make a new ssh. [12:43]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta what 'g' aims to be [12:44]
asciilifeform: (replace ssh) [12:44]
mircea_popescu: right [12:44]
mircea_popescu: ideally, one that doesn't support utf. (not necessarily utf per se - just an instantiation of the principle that features may be supported only if inexpensive enough.) [12:44]
Framedragger: have you folks considered making a god damn wiki of all these funky letters, or is that too socialist of an effort? :) [12:45]
mircea_popescu: there is a wiki, would benefit from more maintainer effort. [12:45]
* Framedragger considers [12:45]
mircea_popescu: the idea in my head has always been that as intelligent people try to catch up, they'll use the wiki as their scratchpad [12:45]
mircea_popescu: people who've been following along usually can't summon the interest, having other flags that call them stronger. [12:46]
Framedragger: is this the wiki? [12:47]
mircea_popescu: mmm, i think that's an old instance. a sec. [12:47]
Framedragger: what with all the move to #trilema, eh [12:47]
mircea_popescu: right. was it ? shinohai ? [12:48]
mircea_popescu: they've made something in lisp iirc. [12:48]
Framedragger: oh, that's nice [12:48]
mircea_popescu: yeah. [12:48]
mircea_popescu: lmao [12:49]
mircea_popescu: hey trinque why does it answer so slowly ? is the lisp machine getting restarted on each call or somesuch ? [12:50]
asciilifeform: dead? [12:50]
mircea_popescu: nah it just takes its sweet time. [12:50]
shinohai: Yeah [12:52]
shinohai: 99% of old articles there [12:52]
ben_vulpes: in other rng news [12:52]
trinque: nah, that box is getting pushed into swap by trb [12:52]
trinque: need to spin up a separate box for the node [12:52]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wats this [12:53]
ben_vulpes: noise, of course [12:53]
trinque: coffee? shits? coffee shits? [12:53]
shinohai: I think I just got cursed at in hindi [12:53]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: lemonade from the morning tragedy [12:54]
mircea_popescu: ah. [12:54]
mircea_popescu: how much ram trinque ? [12:54]
trinque: 2gb, piddly [12:55]
mircea_popescu: ah yeah. i think we'll need to make a "min 4gb ram for new boxes" tmsr standard so people can run general purpose + trb on them [12:55]
shinohai: <<< toldja I couldn't forget that one, spent half the morning reading turdtalk again as I was editing. [12:56]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 16:49 mircea_popescu: lmao [12:56]
mircea_popescu: lol. pretty good. [12:57]
mircea_popescu: "who could have predicted neobee" etc. [12:57]
* shinohai bows to hanbot [12:57]
mircea_popescu: speaking of stains, [12:58]
Framedragger: noob question but by god am i confused. is deedbot's WoT a different WoT from that which is serviced by gribble? [13:11]
mircea_popescu: yes, they diverged at some point early 2015. [13:12]
mircea_popescu: all matter prior is found in both all matter after is found in one or another. [13:12]
mircea_popescu: there was some discussion with nanotube re his rewriting gribble to act properly (ie, sessionless) and interchange data, but it never came to naught. i dun think gribble is still being much maintained. no idea really. [13:13]
Framedragger: oh ok. thanks. [13:13]
mircea_popescu: (the split occured because he was in [unannounced] vacation while gribble went down after not being reacheable for a few days it looked like we're under attack and a new bot was made and properly this time. then nanotube came back, explained he was taking a vacation [all this being right around xmas] and well... no hard feelings, but also no readily available cure.) [13:14]
Framedragger: but e.g. i auth with gribble and apparently that's enough. deedbot sees this. i guess that's fine? [13:14]
Framedragger: i see [13:15]
mircea_popescu: there's no session involved. what's deedbot to see ? [13:15]
mircea_popescu: if you're unvoiced it can voice you, for a token. that's all it does. [13:15]
Framedragger: ahhhh [13:15]
Framedragger: gotcha [13:15]
Framedragger: it's truly sessionless. no need. nice [13:15]
mircea_popescu: if you try to $rate someone it'll give you another token, every time [13:15]
Framedragger: yeah that does make alota sense [13:16]
mircea_popescu: this protects from session hijacking, which is a major concern, especially since freenode's rape-and-gag adventure last year. [13:16]
Framedragger: shit i missed lots of interesting drama, it seems :D [13:16]
mircea_popescu: you know, they announced a major bug which looked just like a nsa plant promised a full investigation to soon follow haven't spoken a word since. [13:16]
mircea_popescu: it's reasonable to deem they're under a gag order and actively diddled. [13:17]
Framedragger: :( [13:17]
Framedragger: i guess this shouldn't be totally surprising [13:17]
mircea_popescu: i guess not. [13:17]
Framedragger: i suppose there's no true need, but have you considered moving to a new/different irc network? or can that wait till gossipd saves the internet? [13:18]
mircea_popescu: what's the cost of the move buy me ? [13:18]
Framedragger: well, say, zero, really. possible time cost for bot maintainers, tho [13:19]
mircea_popescu: so then consider it considered. [13:19]
Framedragger: oh [13:19]
Framedragger: misinterpreted question. "what does it buy". yeah, the nice feeling inside, so, zero, i suppose [13:19]
mircea_popescu: there's nothing substantially wrong with freenode. they're a merchant of faeces infested water, as good as any other merchant of "water" in marakesh. [13:20]
mircea_popescu: the solution is to behead the caliph and put the town under proper administration, not to shop around for "water" merchants. wtf are they going to sell you, they all draw from the same all-purpose pond. [13:21]
Framedragger: (incidentally, fuck marrakech. the whole country's full of tourists, but marrakech doubly so. fes is where it's at!!1) [13:21]
Framedragger: yeah [13:21]
mircea_popescu: ikr? [13:22]
mircea_popescu: where' you from anyway ? [13:22]
Framedragger: lithuania, of all the places. [13:22]
mircea_popescu: what's it like ? [13:23]
Framedragger: hm [13:24]
Framedragger: lots of nice booty (for real though, not a joke) [13:24]
Framedragger: high cost of living, cf. other european countries, whereas avg wage is maybe just over 500eur / mo? hence whole country is grumpy [13:24]
mircea_popescu: yeah, i know, i like lithuanian chix. [13:24]
Framedragger: "ikr" [13:25]
mircea_popescu: do you have a bdsm club ? [13:25]
Framedragger: no. *i should* [13:25]
mircea_popescu: lol not you personally you teh people. [13:25]
Framedragger: yes. unless you mean "the club" (not venue), then i'm not sure, but there are people's circles which seem to function well, yes. i've been out of the country for some time and am generally not in loop [13:26]
Framedragger: there certainly exist chix who do bdsm though, not that it could be otherwise [13:27]
Framedragger: i don't know what to think of that country. i mean, it's shit, but this is sorta a priori [13:28]
mircea_popescu: ah [13:28]
mircea_popescu: ok, so where' you from in the sense of, where you at, then. [13:28]
Framedragger: it's too cold, folks don't talk much in streets, though you can bump into an old guy who invites you to chess for a beer (and by god he needs that beer), he does well, you're in a very cheap shitty bar and you realize it's now closed and the bar is serving vodka to the regulars who're now around you, sometimes succeeding in discussing something interesting [13:29]
Framedragger: i'm too young to hold a decent convo, seemingly. owell. glasgow, uk. it's alright. you'll make fun of uk tho, and that's only fair. i'll move at some point [13:30]
mircea_popescu: you'd love argentina then. ALL they do is stop and chat in the streets half hour at a time, people who don't know each other. [13:30]
mircea_popescu: of course, it's entirely meaningless argentines never act on what they or anyone else says. [13:30]
Framedragger: so i heard! and tbh i would indeed like that, at least for a time! [13:31]
mircea_popescu: i thought glasgow was in scotland [13:31]
Framedragger: hehe [13:31]
mircea_popescu: i only make fun of the london people. the scots are a sort of lithuania :D [13:31]
Framedragger: it is, it is. so what you're saying is that scotland is not part of the uk. if only [13:31]
Framedragger: yeah they are! [13:31]
mircea_popescu: weren't they nigh on separated last time ? [13:31]
Framedragger: (lots of the latter here, incidnetally) [13:31]
Framedragger: aha [13:31]
mircea_popescu: the uk nearly lost it's only submarine base where the only nuclear-bbc-radio-listener is based. [13:32]
Framedragger: just about. glasgow voted "yes" to separation, obviously [13:32]
Framedragger: ah yes that's what i saw in logs. lols [13:32]
Framedragger: oh yeah, the "bbc = world goes on thing" l0l [13:32]
mircea_popescu: lol. [13:32]
mircea_popescu: anyway - yeah i suppose locals are fugly, but then again glasgow gets a lot of foreign students/tourists. [13:33]
Framedragger: yeah there are friendly people here, with brains etc. weather is shit obvs., and i admit it affects me. hence travels to morocco and suchlike [13:33]
* mircea_popescu lived in edinburgh briefly. [13:33]
Framedragger: most of local gals are fucking ugly as fuck, yes indeed [13:33]
mircea_popescu: well, wolverhampton. but anyway. [13:33]
Framedragger: ah i see! [13:33]
mircea_popescu: warwick castle was epic, but finding something you'd stick your penis into was ~impossible. i was stuck with imports the whole time. [13:34]
Framedragger: yeah glasgow is a student population to a degree, quite so, and that is indeed nice [13:35]
Framedragger: can only imagine [13:35]
Framedragger: it's nice to hear that argentina is a livable place, then. i enjoyed the pix on trilema fwiw [13:37]
Framedragger: didn't you say something to the tune of "i'd like to die here" :) [13:38]
mircea_popescu: did i ? [13:38]
Framedragger: could be mistaken. hmm [13:39]
Framedragger: on buenos aires: [13:39]
Framedragger: oh that was before you moved [13:39]
mircea_popescu: no, but it was early. [13:40]
mircea_popescu: the place is great for the first months. then the idiocy of the population starts to wear you down. [13:40]
mircea_popescu: what's the idiot village called in lithuanian folklore ? [13:41]
Framedragger: can't think of a specific word - there's a notion "idiots' ship" - durnių laivas - and also: the whole word "village" (kaimas) has very clear connotations of idiocy, in and of itself, and is used thusly sometimes [13:42]
Framedragger: or are you referring to some actual place? [13:42]
mircea_popescu: alrighty, so it's basically a durnish laivas that thinks itself the capital [of the world]. [13:43]
mircea_popescu: they get tiresome. [13:43]
Framedragger: parliament, say, is often referred to by durnių laivas, as well as the whole country, its populace, etc same with "kaimas" being used interchangeably with populace [13:43]
Framedragger: ahh, i see [13:43]
mircea_popescu: yeah, but at least your idiots are aware of it. [13:43]
Framedragger: to a masturbatory degree [13:43]
mircea_popescu: these schmucks think they're all part of the cast of friends. [13:43]
asciilifeform: iirc ships of fools were already common parlance even prior to sebastian brandt's 1400s mega-b0000k [13:43]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well they did send children on a crusade once... [13:44]
Framedragger: hahah. oh i *bet* that wears you off after a while! [13:44]
asciilifeform: 'Das Narrenschiff' [13:44]
jurov: asciilifeform: github rsa keys: [13:47]
mircea_popescu: win! [13:48]
asciilifeform: neato [13:48]
mircea_popescu: how many ? [13:48]
jurov: 0080bf77f0541827bc90d62de448cbc6780ae5a8f9450405eb00db4dafe708836018b832c40bbc30128ab2b8c5c4a9c9d2e1a34ebd8efdf8d3ee178bd94d8316 phathub.csv [13:48]
jurov: 5662db8716ddfa945e0b45103517eb681b32f7c2615af731ae0644737e92389122f8740e6f86201e61b96513bd2ace3301dd288c88f3e93bae46dd7594327dac phathub-201506.csv.xz [13:48]
jurov: 6.9mil [13:48]
mircea_popescu: epic. [13:48]
mircea_popescu: phuctor eats well today! [13:48]
asciilifeform: wai these are converted already ? [13:48]
Framedragger: jurov: nice. [13:48]
jurov: it's CSV e,N, comment [13:48]
mircea_popescu: well yes ? [13:48]
mircea_popescu: tmsr rsa format. [13:49]
mircea_popescu: and it is at this juncture we discover alf doesn't actually have that implemented yet :D [13:49]
asciilifeform: not the least. [13:49]
asciilifeform: phuctor is hard-built in 1,01 ways around pgp format. [13:49]
mircea_popescu: loller. [13:50]
mircea_popescu: well... i guess you make a tmsr - to - rfc 448866221133massachussetts convertor. [13:50]
jurov: and above file would be maybe 50GB instead of 2 [13:50]
jurov: asciilifeform: i can convert if you insist [13:53]
mircea_popescu: so there were three : get the github keys - jurov did it get the ssh server/router spidering going, and convert. iirc nobody was doing this get pgp keys out of the gwen / sr dump. punkman was hm where is he. [13:53]
mircea_popescu: later punkman yo [13:53]
gribble: Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "punkman" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin. [13:53]
mircea_popescu: later tell punkman yo [13:53]
gribble: The operation succeeded. [13:53]
mircea_popescu: jurov can you publish the convertor you used somewhere for later reference ? like your blog or w/e ? [13:53]
mircea_popescu: also, anyone want to run a ssh server key spider ? [13:53]
BingoBoingo: lol [13:54]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger ? [13:54]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 1001 ways ? at some point it keeps numbers in a db or no ? [13:54]
jurov: yes, convertor. when i find out why it does barfalicious output [13:55]
mircea_popescu: hm [13:56]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo jesus wtf is wrong with these imbeciles. [13:57]
BingoBoingo: New 'Murica [13:57]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes. but when a key is phuctored, it expects to find the fields associated with a pgp key in the requisite db table. [13:58]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and if it finds only the comment field and the rest null it dies ? [13:59]
asciilifeform: this is not even a thing. [14:00]
asciilifeform: as per the structure of the db [14:00]
mircea_popescu: wtf is in that key, a date, an email, a name and a comment [14:00]
asciilifeform: try to understand how special cases make complexity of a proggy explode. [14:00]
asciilifeform: no it is also a pgp key turd, that is re-parsable to obtain all of these [14:00]
mircea_popescu: so far i'm trying to understand what specifically the db is like. [14:00]
asciilifeform: and downloadable, etc [14:00]
asciilifeform: for instance, db is currently indexable ONLY 2 ways: [14:01]
asciilifeform: 1) pgp fp (64bit) [14:01]
asciilifeform: 2) hash of moduli AS THEY APPEAR IN PGP FORMAT [14:01]
mircea_popescu: ah right, and fp isn't even a function of modulus. [14:01]
asciilifeform: (2 is what you see in phuctor urls) [14:01]
asciilifeform: the thing is pretty solidly congealed around pgp. [14:02]
mircea_popescu: that may be but the problem here is that politically, we do not wish to recognize rsa is owned by pgp. [14:02]
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg [14:02]
mircea_popescu: so this will have to be catered to. [14:02]
mircea_popescu: principally in the form of "keys aren't pgp format, but tmsr format, of which ssh, pgp and others are idiotic restatements" [14:02]
asciilifeform: prolly i am doomed to rewrite whole thing again... [14:02]
mircea_popescu: well, sounds like about half. [14:03]
mircea_popescu: but hey, on the upside youll be able to take the button out. [14:03]
Framedragger: "also, anyone want to run a ssh server key spider ?" << heh, k, i'm up for this, might as well be useful while i brood [14:03]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the task is 1) create a spider that connects to all servers/routers/anything that takes a ssh connection, and asks for key. there's an example given in the logs coupla weeks ago that prolly can be taken verbatim and improved as needed. [14:04]
Framedragger: i suppose i should search logs for previous discussions? unless anyone wants to give a more particular summary? spider as many keys from as many hosts running ssh as possible? [14:04]
jurov: there's also this, but access to raw data is prolly paid [14:04]
mircea_popescu: 2) process the results on some sort of periodicity (daily ?) with jurov's soon to be published convertor [14:04]
mircea_popescu: 3) publish the results somewhere so alf can scarf them [14:04]
Framedragger: the convertor converts keys into some kind of tmsr rsa format, then? [14:05]
jurov: no, pgp rfc4880 format [14:05]
Framedragger: oh ok [14:05]
Framedragger: that's nice [14:05]
mircea_popescu: [14:06]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 17:48 jurov: it's CSV e,N, comment [14:06]
Framedragger: jurov so the convertor does the whole "create x.509 certificate" thing etc? nice nice [14:06]
Framedragger: ah [14:06]
mircea_popescu: jurov wait, what ? [14:06]
jurov: what certificate? [14:06]
jurov: just PGP public key [14:06]
Framedragger: oh maybe rfc4880 in itself does not include a whole certificate bloat thing. ok [14:07]
Framedragger: openpgp is bulky but maybe not that bulky [14:07]
jurov: certificate is usually a public key + self+signature [14:07]
Framedragger: anyway. ssh server key spider. *considers setup* [14:07]
jurov: but we can't have selfsigs, only the key [14:08]
Framedragger: my mistake [14:08]
mircea_popescu: ok im well confused. so jurov : you have a thing that takes ssh keys, spits them out as e,N,comment lines in a csv. that right ? [14:08]
jurov: yes. and also (so far) faulty implemention of CSV -> PGP pubkey [14:08]
mircea_popescu: ah. and you were calling this later "convertor" ? whereas i was calling the former. [14:08]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger see and around there. [14:09]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-02 19:11 fromphuctor__: ssh-keyscan provide digits [14:09]
Framedragger: ok [14:09]
jurov: okay. the ssh format is blessedly simple, not much to convert [14:09]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: that was useful. so btw this fromphuctor__, i take it he hasn't much reappeared. was good idea, his [14:13]
mircea_popescu: honestly asciilifeform i'd much rather if phuctor held a table consisting of e,N,comment,pgp_crud1,pgp_crud2,etc. should be indexed by hash of first three fields. should not depend on the trailing fields existing [14:13]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger many thousands read teh logs not everyone speaks, or directly. the republic shades a much larger area than meets teh eye. nothing wrong with that either. [14:14]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the most complicated piece is the www crud [14:14]
mircea_popescu: myeah. [14:14]
asciilifeform: it is already replete with rat's nest of case logic crud [14:15]
mircea_popescu: myeah. will take purging. sorry for your loss. [14:15]
asciilifeform: not purging, but further entumouring, there isn't a way to do it cleanly [14:15]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: of course. :) btw can i assume that ecdsa keys are not of interest? only rsa? [14:15]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why so ? [14:15]
Framedragger: ssh-keyscan nicely gives all keys presented by server, usually includes ecdsa [14:15]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger you understand how ecc works yes ? [14:15]
Framedragger: i think so, yes [14:16]
mircea_popescu: then what's the point of factoring it ? [14:16]
Framedragger: well, not factoring it of course, but just hoarding it for laters [14:16]
Framedragger: i dunno you guys plans for future [14:16]
mircea_popescu: thats a call up to you as a putative eventual lord of teh republic neh ? [14:16]
Framedragger: but kk, it's clear it's not relevant to current effort as current effort is about factorization of rsa keys [14:17]
Framedragger: ..fair [14:17]
Framedragger: so, like, presumably, one would want keys of ssh servers that are behind *all* routable public ipv4 addresses? [14:19]
asciilifeform: << because i am not a wwwtronicist. the thing does not intelligently generate the web crapolade from the db in any way, it manually and agonizingly 'if phuctored then display this-here colours' etc. [14:21]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 18:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why so ? [14:21]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger just make sure you add the ip to your comment. [14:22]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah. so are we looking for a wwwtronicist at this spot ? [14:22]
asciilifeform: also, i presume, for a baker, so we can hand out phreee caeks? [14:23]
mircea_popescu: i dunno, you're pretty talented, or at least i liked your www output :D [14:23]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, ben_vulpes has been making noises about things for one. maybe mike_c is bored, who knows. till you ask you don't know. [14:24]
* Framedragger is a non-bullshit wwwtronicist, depending on definition. are you folks looking for some clean www read-only interface to a db? sorry for much interjection [14:24]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger why just ipv4 ? [14:27]
ben_vulpes: what is a non-bullshit wwwtronicist? [14:27]
mircea_popescu: i read it to mean he doesn't use django. [14:27]
ben_vulpes: magical tank of wine with particles of shit that is still drinkable somehow? [14:27]
ben_vulpes: oh and php is non-bullshit i c [14:27]
Framedragger: someone who can do web development without considering nodejs, js, nosql, etc etc, just for some initial constraints? :D [14:28]
* ben_vulpes is having a bad week [14:28]
mircea_popescu: what happened this week ? teething ? [14:28]
Framedragger: and visits more often than should admit [14:28]
trinque: hunchentoot uber alles [14:28]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: teething isn't really my problem [14:29]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: well. i guess the spider could could include a ipv6 address crawler to populate a ipv6 address list. but beyond that? [14:29]
ben_vulpes: inane wwwtronics, ofc [14:30]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger was mostly confirming your assumption. yes, if the motherfucker goes to indochina i want a nigger there hiding in a bowl of rice ready to suck its pubkey down. [14:30]
ben_vulpes: spilled the coffee, soaked the chinese shitscale [14:30]
Framedragger: looks at "ipv6 only" [14:31]
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: that's more a baseline requirement [14:31]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: nice, nice [14:31]
ben_vulpes: like not using windows [14:31]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes anyone ever told you you've got housewife problems ? [14:31]
ben_vulpes: or os x [14:31]
Framedragger: for sure [14:31]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what are my housewife problems? [14:31]
Framedragger: 'initial constraints' [14:31]
asciilifeform: what's a housewife problem [14:31]
Framedragger: probably weeds out most [14:31]
asciilifeform: too many housewives ? [14:31]
mircea_popescu: "spilled coffee... soaked scale..." [14:31]
asciilifeform: too few..? [14:31]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: no /i/ spilled the coffe [14:31]
ben_vulpes: and /i/ soaked the scale [14:31]
mircea_popescu: "he won't call..." [14:32]
ben_vulpes: /i/ am having a bad week. [14:32]
ben_vulpes: she is childproofing and driving the kibbutz incubation project quite nicely thank you very much [14:32]
asciilifeform: waiwut [14:33]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes in a kibbutz ?! [14:33]
asciilifeform: what did i miss [14:33]
mircea_popescu: wouldn't kibbutz incubation properly render as kibbutzation ? [14:33]
ben_vulpes: that'd tend to imply the marching of people to the kibbutz [14:34]
ben_vulpes: kibbutzcubation perhaps [14:34]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: not yet [14:34]
ben_vulpes: trees don't grow overnight [14:34]
ben_vulpes: but hey the girls are helping each other nurse already so the project moves forward [14:35]
mircea_popescu: speaking of midgets, [14:35]
mircea_popescu: wait... what girls ? [14:36]
mircea_popescu: you're bigamarried nao ? [14:36]
ben_vulpes: nonono [14:36]
ben_vulpes: new chapter, new friends [14:37]
asciilifeform: no moar wwwtron warehouse with piss tanks ? [14:37]
mircea_popescu: so you've impregnated both the wife and the mistress and they're cooing in unison ? [14:37]
mircea_popescu: incidentally danielpbarron mind showing the i'll pay for tits thing to thx [14:38]
* ben_vulpes rolls eyes [14:38]
ben_vulpes: friends, not colleagues, asciilifeform [14:38]
ben_vulpes: tanning tanks still reek as ever [14:38]
mircea_popescu: is it my fault you're cryptic ?! [14:38]
ben_vulpes: i learned it from you! [14:38]
ben_vulpes: looky [14:39]
ben_vulpes: i am possibly the youngest hipster /deciding/ to have children. this means that none of the other hipsters want to be friends any more, because what sane person with hobbies etc hangs out with married and children. [14:39]
ben_vulpes: ergo find new friends who are also doing the same. [14:39]
mircea_popescu: ah! [14:39]
ben_vulpes: davout even i think was older than i for his [14:40]
mircea_popescu: hey, it's the first day of the rest of your life [14:40]
mircea_popescu: if it makes you feel better, my parents were about your age when they were blessed with the wonder that is i. [14:40]
ben_vulpes: my foul mood has nothing to do with childrearing [14:41]
ben_vulpes: and everything to do with inane wwwtronics [14:41]
mircea_popescu: well yeah, but theres nothing anyone can do there. [14:43]
ben_vulpes: [14:43]
Framedragger: i like the /* yolo: */ in the source, where it specifies the font right there in the source, because fuck it [14:45]
Framedragger: by specifies i meant defines [14:45]
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: shithouse has a certain...aesthetic. [14:45]
Framedragger: those @-webkit-keyframes .... yeah i can see that :) [14:46]
ben_vulpes: familiarity breeds contempt or what was it [14:47]
* mats pats ben_vulpes [14:47]
mats: it'll be ok [14:49]
mats: << this is wut my personal workplace hell looks like [14:50]
trinque: everything in computing is shit, well-worn fact by now [14:51]
mats: one of my new duties is managing osx imaging. and i already wanna die. [14:51]
trinque: I'm over here trying to get sbcl's sb-bsd-socket to build on musl [14:51]
trinque: one cannot simply pick the best things available why would they all already work together? [14:51]
mats: on the other hand, an interesting opportunity to understand xnu [14:52]
mats: lotsa cruft there. [14:52]
shinohai: o/ mats long time no see [14:53]
mats: haro [14:53]
asciilifeform: workplace hell my shiny metal arse. [14:54]
asciilifeform: i'm building ?????? for motherfucking microshit. [14:54]
trinque: l0l0l [14:54]
asciilifeform: not first time, either. [14:54]
trinque: hey man it's the end of the world [14:54]
trinque: sling dope [14:54]
asciilifeform: but at least i dun have to SEE PEOPLE!11111111111111 [14:55]
asciilifeform: i will build for nintendo. [14:55]
asciilifeform: so long as i dun have to people. [14:55]
mats: xpc seems like it has a lot of bugs [14:55]
mats: and the pile of varying ipc mechanisms in addition to raw mach ports is p interesting [14:56]
mats: who remembers 'Distributed Objects'? 'Distributed Notifications'? [14:57]
mats: whole thing is ripe for 0days, i expect, half a dozen incompatible ipc mechanisms loosely scattered across multiple layers [15:00]
mircea_popescu: o hey, how goes mats ? [15:49]
hanbot: mircea_popescu, << check out top answer. [16:08]
mircea_popescu: awww look at that! i'm quora famous nao ? [16:09]
hanbot: Philippe Duperron, Blockchain Maximalist predicted classic failure back in February. [16:10]
hanbot: Where prediction = "whatever MP says". [16:11]
mircea_popescu: not bad, coupla months early huh. [16:11]
hanbot: see also [16:13]
hanbot: Pity they don't have a bio article. [16:14]
mircea_popescu: lmao [16:14]
shinohai: ^ epik [16:18]
hanbot: Maybe you should pay their server bills so they don't have to "not advertise" their begging campaign every quarter. [16:19]
hanbot: Require WoT registrations to edit or something. [16:20]
mircea_popescu: nah, i'm not paying so jimbo wales can continue meeting his personal bills. [16:20]
mircea_popescu: it'd be interesting as a wikipedia-conversion-to-sanity project, but it'd be predicated on the project ditching all the undesirables barnacled to it. and seeing that the whole thing is mostly barnacle by mass, i dun see it happening. [16:21]
BingoBoingo: Kinda the Libressl problem. Thing needs cutting, but it also need oh so much cutting. [16:30]
mircea_popescu: the other thing is that wikipedia has ~no utility. in the parts that it outright copied actual encyclopedia is no better and no different from any random website out there that repackages other's content. [16:30]
mircea_popescu: in the parts where it actually does something, what it does is collect derpy dribbles on irrelevant topics. yeah, it's the first place to have a discussion of the nth episode of the mth reboot of some tired us franchise. [16:31]
mircea_popescu: ok... [16:31]
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as a corpse. [16:31]
mircea_popescu: there is. [16:31]
asciilifeform: when the only thing to cut is skull, for ashtray [16:32]
mircea_popescu: and what's worse, the "wiki" style is proven not to work. even something originally as promising as tvtropes has over the years decayed into this unfunny collection of tiresome goop. [16:33]
mircea_popescu: if you have the curiosity to check it out, the parts of any artiocle that you like are 5yo+ and stuff added the current year's never up to par. [16:33]
* asciilifeform noticed [16:33]
mircea_popescu: basically, it worked as an unpaid effort to digitize books that's meanwhile run out of both books to digitize and wide-eyed excitable noobs to do the digitizing. [16:34]
BingoBoingo: Related [16:34]
mircea_popescu: hehe [16:38]
mircea_popescu: all these "passive gains" systems go the same way [16:38]
asciilifeform: all wotless soup goes the same way. [16:41]
mircea_popescu: that also though wikipedia does have a buggy, unspecified, half-baked wot implementation [16:41]
asciilifeform: at one point asciilifeform attempted to contribute to pediwikia, even. was quickly cured of the notion that this was a worthwhile use of time. [16:41]
asciilifeform: yeah they have [16:42]
asciilifeform: and guess who it is built around. [16:42]
mircea_popescu: the problem is they didn't have intelligent people at the top. this generally haunts. [16:42]
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg [16:44]
BingoBoingo: $up dignork [16:59]
deedbot: dignork voiced for 30 minutes. [16:59]
dignork: Thanks BingoBoingo glad to see you guys, but I'm just lurking after a long time out, haven't read the logs yet. [17:01]
danielpbarron: << done [17:02]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 18:38 mircea_popescu: incidentally danielpbarron mind showing the i'll pay for tits thing to thx [17:02]
BingoBoingo: You're welcome. Just nice to see an oldtimer come back around. [17:02]
mircea_popescu: ty danielpbarron [17:06]
mircea_popescu: and in other news, damn soup is a wonderful invention. [17:06]
mircea_popescu: take my advice boys and girls : have soup at least 4-5 times a week. [17:06]
shinohai: Let's build version 2.0 of a buggy moneypit! :D [17:08]
BingoBoingo: Health is nao "respectability politics" [17:15]
asciilifeform: oh this is lethally lulzy, [17:18]
asciilifeform: 'Gavin will "win" because most people won't even realize there was a debate, let alone a "war". Gavin has the network alert key, so when he says "please upgrade to avoid being left on a fork", most people will upgrade. Hard to get away from that. Mircea Popescu isn't likely to persuade anyone that he's right because in all of the three blog posts on this subject I found, nowhere does he bother to explain why he's opposed to a larger [17:19]
asciilifeform: block size, instead committing the space to expressing his dislike for Gavin, the Bitcoin foundation...' [17:19]
asciilifeform: ^ from the 'quora' thing. [17:19]
asciilifeform: (linked earlier) [17:19]
shinohai: Gavin has been rather quite for a few days. [17:20]
shinohai: *quiet [17:20]
asciilifeform: have patience, they're making a new one [17:21]
asciilifeform: old one was long in the tooth. [17:21]
trinque: must be disheartening they put so much work into the last one's sweet steampunk goggles and MIT stamp of chief scientism [17:25]
trinque: they should get that Tor chick this time [17:25]
trinque: she looks like she wants to be a dystopian manga character [17:25]
asciilifeform: related, [17:25]
a111: Logged on 2015-12-20 00:13 asciilifeform: << you know what's great? rat poison STILL WORKS even if you don't explain to the rats exactly ~how~ ! [17:25]
asciilifeform: dignork: welcome back [17:29]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that was state of the art in 2015 tho, check teh dates. [17:40]
asciilifeform: tru [17:43]
asciilifeform: the new, 'desperate timez' measures will be thrust at the minerz. [17:47]
mircea_popescu: nah, that was early 2016 tech. it backfired something massive. [17:50]
asciilifeform: i dun think they've tried outright bribery yet [17:53]
asciilifeform: nor arson [17:53]
kakobrekla: hi. my mpex account has been inaccessible roughly since the time of the final bbet settlement - a bug or a feature? [17:55]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look at the events. in the unwarranted assumption that mp will be impressed with a show of miner strength, they proceeded to mess with bitbet payments. this backfired spectacularly when mp was not only not impressed, but actually went public with it, live. [17:56]
mircea_popescu: then in the unwarranted assumption that mp actually needs the piddly 1k btc held for bitbet, they tried to use whatever loose assemblage of assets to force mp to recant de facto. which idem backfired spectacularly when mp not only failed to recant as intended, but pissed with a large arch on the whole proposition, and cut out with hot irons anything that may even remotely resemble. [17:56]
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you were banned from mpex subsequent your last doomed attempt to fuck up the bitbet process on davout's blog. [17:56]
mircea_popescu: now bugger off. [17:56]
kakobrekla: aha so you are keeping my btc? [17:57]
mircea_popescu: for the record : during the duration of that account, you deposited 20.02 btc, and withdrew : 670.37 btc. "your" btc is a misnomer at best. [17:58]
kakobrekla: the p/l has no relevance to your embezzlement of funds tied to my key. [18:01]
mircea_popescu: that'll be all. [18:01]
mircea_popescu: $down kakobrekla [18:01]
mircea_popescu: but gotta appreciate the sheer cheek, in any case. [18:02]
shinohai: >.> [18:04]
asciilifeform: waiwut, i thought he was a bbet shareholder > [18:05]
asciilifeform: ? [18:05]
mats: mircea_popescu: nm, off to see a show [18:05]
asciilifeform: or how did it wurk [18:06]
kakobrekla: first the pretending and now you plain stealing - way to go! [18:06]
asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu formally sentence kako to dekulakization? i must've slept through this. [18:07]
mats: fun fact, canto people typically have soup with every meal [18:08]
mircea_popescu: it definitely helps the gullet yeah. [18:08]
shinohai: i make potato soup but no potato only rok [18:08]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how'd you have known anyway ? [18:08]
asciilifeform: well mircea_popescu has a habit of punishing folx in public [18:09]
asciilifeform: so possibly then [18:09]
mircea_popescu: didn't seem particularly interesting. it's in public now, at any rate. [18:10]
asciilifeform: i can't speak for others, but a fella being drummed out of mpex with dekulakization is a newsworthy thing imho. [18:11]
mircea_popescu: litte news reaches us from the distant fogs of mpex. but sure. [18:11]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^ qntra ? [18:12]
asciilifeform: iirc in the l0gz we learned that even straight usg has mpex account(s), and parked coin stolen from its prisoners (e.g., dpr) there. [18:28]
asciilifeform: why not dekulakize them ? [18:28]
mircea_popescu: how exactly are you going to come to any sort of sensible conclusions on the basis of the random derpage of some dude who's principally known for random derpage ? [18:30]
mircea_popescu: anyway, im off to party, bbl. [18:30]
shinohai: lulzy [18:30]
asciilifeform: well dude was also known as bona fide shareholder in bbet. [18:31]
asciilifeform: which was liquidated. [18:31]
asciilifeform: and now we learn... he's not ? [18:31]
jurov: lol you expect any logic? after all this? [19:18]
asciilifeform: i have monumentally nfi [19:20]
jurov: you just mentioned stalin on other chan, now imagine yourself demanding explanation from stalin :D [19:20]
asciilifeform: stalin, on the contrary, had pretty good explanations. [19:20]
asciilifeform: inside his circle. [19:20]
jurov: Yes, you do prefer to think that way. [19:22]
* asciilifeform aficionado, reads memoirs, etc [19:22]
asciilifeform: at any rate, i'm not in the business of demanding explanations from folks, but i do make inferences. [19:23]
asciilifeform: and apparently we can infer that mircea_popescu hates kako more than he hates the dpr confiscators. [19:23]
asciilifeform: which i find interesting. [19:23]
BingoBoingo: Divorce is contentious, News at 11. [19:59]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ever been phriends with both pieces of a divorce ? [20:05]
shinohai: akward.jpg [20:11]
mircea_popescu: << that part was handled by davout i'm pretty sure he got his half from him in any case davour charged it against me in the final settlement, and i dun expect he didn't remit it. [20:58]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 22:31 asciilifeform: and now we learn... he's not ? [20:58]
mircea_popescu: and hate dun enter into it. derp's been making outright false, marginally false and otherwise tendentious statements since just about the day it became clear the oh-so-genius plan won't catch. i see no merit in it and reason to entertain them. [21:00]
asciilifeform: which plan [21:00]
mircea_popescu: [21:01]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 21:56 mircea_popescu: then in the unwarranted assumption that mp actually needs the piddly 1k btc held for bitbet, they tried to use whatever loose assemblage of assets to force mp to recant de facto. which idem backfired spectacularly when mp not only failed to recant as intended, but pissed with a large arch on the whole proposition, and cut out with hot irons anything that may even remotely resemble. [21:01]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu tellin' me that kako betrayed ze motherland ?! [21:04]
mircea_popescu: so far i'm telling you he's been banned from mpex upon and from #trilema upon [21:06]
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 22:01 mircea_popescu: that'll be all. [21:06]
asciilifeform: and, afaik, first to publicly have this 'honour' [21:07]
mircea_popescu: possibly. [21:07]
mircea_popescu: hm, no, actually there was a derp that managed to exploit some timing issue early on. [21:07]
asciilifeform: interesting - this was in dark age pre-l0gz ? [21:10]
mircea_popescu: possibly, yeah. well, not pre-logs, but pre-what's public now i think. [21:10]
asciilifeform: did the banned fella kick up a stink ? [21:11]
mircea_popescu: actually there might have been a coupla more publicly known of people with compromised keys [21:11]
mircea_popescu: i imagine must've. [21:11]
asciilifeform: how does one know that a fella has compromised key ? [21:20]
asciilifeform: (other than by pwning him personally) [21:20]
mircea_popescu: "one" doesn't know much. [21:20]
asciilifeform: i can picture the symptoms though. [21:21]
asciilifeform: in other 'nyooz', guess who ~doesn't~ run winblowz: [21:22]
asciilifeform: (linked primarily for the console photo) [21:22]
asciilifeform: reportedly thing is plugged into a real live 'elbrus-2'. [21:23]
asciilifeform: circa '77. [21:23]
mircea_popescu: you know still couldn't locate any of them things... [21:23]
asciilifeform: well they only made, iirc, 200 'elbrus-2' (which were cray-2 sized and shaped) [21:24]
mircea_popescu: no i meant the modern ones. [21:24]
asciilifeform: ah [21:24]
mircea_popescu: it's been half a fucking year or what. [21:24]
asciilifeform: yeah i suspect that none were sold to humans. [21:24]
mircea_popescu: im not atm persuaded they exist more than "bfl delivery" existed back in the bitbet bet days. [21:25]
mircea_popescu: ie, someone somewhere might have received a prototype. [21:26]
asciilifeform: most ru wunderwaffen happen in individually numbered prototypes. [21:26]
mircea_popescu: yeah well, i'm not THAT curious about them. [21:32]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, you ever made any sense of the rms notion that "free hardware" is nothing like "free software" ? [21:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very pointedly not [21:33]
asciilifeform: it struck me as pure 'delusionist' [21:33]
asciilifeform: and i think i frothed about it here even. [21:33]
asciilifeform: (but possibly not) [21:33]
mircea_popescu: they always puzzled me, these inconsistent derps. jimbo wales thinks he's a "libertarian", and "objectivist". one that somehow thinks corporate spying is bad, but "the government should put as many cameras up as possible - they'd prevent crimes". [21:33]
mircea_popescu: it's mindboggling. [21:34]
asciilifeform: folks who paint themselves into a logical corner tend to do this. [21:34]
mircea_popescu: why not just you know, review thew priors. LIKE SANE FUCKING PEOPLE. [21:34]
mircea_popescu: if anything, free hardware is more important/useful/valuable than free software, because i've busted open way more programs than chips. [21:35]
asciilifeform: yeah well. the time to review the priors is before you box yourself in [21:35]
mircea_popescu: no then you don't yet know. the time to review is when you notice the walls. [21:36]
asciilifeform: but it is worth remembering that rms began his thing in a time when hardware was rare and precious [21:36]
asciilifeform: and generally one had to swallow what was on the plate. [21:36]
mircea_popescu: anyway - same with music, because "it's not meant for use, but for appreciation". it's a fucking lasagna, what the fuck does this man actually believe ? [21:36]
asciilifeform: (and, also not irrelevant, it was generally sane) [21:36]
mircea_popescu: any program i ever cared about enough to bust open was meant for appreciation. such as fucking civ ffs. [21:36]
mircea_popescu: does a conference a week since 1995, hasn't yet explained the difference between things "not meant for practical use" and the rest. wtf is impractical use. [21:37]
mircea_popescu: motherfucker... [21:37]
mircea_popescu: see, now THIS i hate. [21:37]
asciilifeform: wai wut where is the 'practical use' line from [21:38]
mircea_popescu: $google "I think all works meant for practical uses must be free, but that does not apply to music, since music is meant for appreciation, not for practical use." [21:38]
deedbot: No results. [21:38]
mircea_popescu: yeah im sure. [21:38]
mircea_popescu: $google megaupload stallman comments [21:38]
deedbot: No results. [21:38]
* mircea_popescu shrugs [21:38]
asciilifeform: i'm beginning to remember this tho [21:39]
asciilifeform: 'Printer patterns to make a useful, practical object (i.e., functional rather than decorative) must be free because they are works made for practical use. ' [21:39]
mircea_popescu: [21:39]
asciilifeform: ( ) [21:39]
mircea_popescu: what is the difference between (dressed for appreciation) and (practical use) ? [21:41]
mircea_popescu: same fucking cunt omfg. [21:41]
mircea_popescu: is it the thickness of the baseball penisbat ? [21:42]
asciilifeform: there is this thing, [21:43]
asciilifeform: where fella decides he 'believes' x,y,z but is not intellectually up to the task of systematizing [21:43]
asciilifeform: and ends up with 'for practical use...' poppycock [21:43]
mircea_popescu: this is not belief. this is an uppity ronin slave. [21:44]
asciilifeform: it is always quite painful to watch. [21:44]
mircea_popescu: it's unpleasant to watch in a context where the others say anything but "hey, you're having these problems because you're an uppity ronin slave. how about you drop the aferations and go follow a master." [21:44]
asciilifeform: why would a successful (in the financial own-legs sense) heresiarch 'go follow a master' ? [21:45]
mircea_popescu: because not intellectually up to the task of not following. [21:46]
asciilifeform: wake me up when anybody anywhere performs this type of seppuku. [21:46]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck does the rich guy go to church. [21:47]
asciilifeform: to pick up chix? [21:47]
mircea_popescu: same fucking reason the poor guy goes : cuz he can't make sense of the world around him [21:47]
asciilifeform: (iirc it was why dan mocsny went) [21:47]
mircea_popescu: in which we find aferation is not an english word. a well. it denotes one who appears to have a lot to do / be in the thick of things / busy, but really just pretending. a george costanza of sorts. [21:48]
asciilifeform: next we find that aferist is not english word!!? [21:49]
asciilifeform: (google claims it translates 'swindler') [21:49]
mircea_popescu: anyway, tongue in cheek evolution of latin affero. [21:50]
mircea_popescu: $google tits cunt fuck piss shit motherfucker cocksucker [22:01]
deedbot: No results. [22:01]
mircea_popescu: oh you gotta be fucking kidding me [22:01]
mircea_popescu: $google no results [22:01]
asciilifeform: i think it croaked long ago [22:01]
deedbot: << No Results | << 3 Guidelines for Search Engine "No Results" Pages | << Welcome to Leader Publishing Worldwide | Leader Publishing ... [22:01]
asciilifeform: hm [22:01]
mircea_popescu: there's soemthing wrong with longer lines i think [22:01]
mircea_popescu: $google tits [22:01]
deedbot: << Tit (bird) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | << tits videos - XVIDEOS.COM | << Jacques Tits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [22:01]
mircea_popescu: $google cunt tits [22:02]
deedbot: << Show Your Cunt - Girls, Show your Cunt, Tits and Ass here!!! | << showing a perfect cunt tits and ass - XVIDEOS.COM | << old lady cunt tits - YouTube [22:02]
mircea_popescu: weird. [22:02]
asciilifeform: quite [22:02]
mircea_popescu: in any case, even the proposition that somehow "use" is good while "enjoyment" bad, first to be supported off public tolerance, mandated latter to be punished stinks to high heavens of outright evil protestantism bullshit. [22:21]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc it was some variation of 'you don't need to know how magic trick works' [22:38]
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