Forum logs for 18 Jul 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
BingoBoingo: !!up punto [00:27]
deedbot: punto voiced for 30 minutes. [00:27]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1481...9079 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( IT) [00:51]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1566...1343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( IT) [00:51]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1470...3053 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( DE) [00:51]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1594...4317 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( DE) [00:51]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [01:03]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2225.0, vol: 27624.25877228 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2168.0, vol: 9172.94514 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2187.2, vol: 40989.87519083 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2234.845746, vol: 14348.85940000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2183.258, vol: 13560.2812637 | Volume-weighted last average: 2201.37537846 [01:04]
BingoBoingo: OMG RECRASHING [01:04]
mircea_popescu: o noes i bought at 1950 should i sell ??? [01:04]
BingoBoingo: I dunno must consult WAPO [01:05]
mircea_popescu: i only did it to get ethereum tokens [01:06]
BingoBoingo: WAPO Returns headline: "Swole Jeff Bezos Is Exactly the Meme the World Needed" [01:06]
mircea_popescu: are still available do ytou know ? [01:06]
mircea_popescu: could bezos swole russia ? [01:07]
BingoBoingo: Apparently according to his fake news outlet: "Most people know that online firearm sales create big loopholes that allow customers to bypass background checks—but who knew e-commerce pioneer Jeff Bezos was hawking guns like these?! The Amazon CEO and Washington Post owner showed up to an Idaho conference in a skintight T-shirt last week, displaying a set of arms most reasonable observers would classify as assault weapons." [01:07]
mircea_popescu: o we're down to "most people know" ? i thought usg shares were firmly at "everyone knows" ? [01:08]
BingoBoingo: Well, gotta probe vanity publishing ass further: "Bezos used to be a giant baby-faced, Kevin-Spacey-faced nerd who sold textbooks on a website and looked ecstatic merely to be alive. Now, he’s buying up bougie grocery stores and publishing a newspaper with a metal-ass tagline. He’s in the putting businesses out of business business, and he’s got the muscle and shaved head to prove it." [01:08]
BingoBoingo: Apparently pantsuits like to give the rimjob to the boss? [01:09]
mircea_popescu: did the guy's payola mcnuggets & happy meals not make it this month or wtf is their problem. [01:09]
BingoBoingo: Apparently they are sexually harassing the boss to get him fired? Or mebbe he used owning a newspaper to ghostwrite the thing. [01:10]
asciilifeform: lolwat, his own rag printed this?! [01:16]
mircea_popescu: see how independent it is ? [01:16]
BingoBoingo: Yes, and in 18 months Trump will go from equalling Bezos in Senator count to clearly passing Bezos [01:16]
BingoBoingo: So many Turkeys!!! [01:16]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You gotta read it for what it is, appeal to his re-adolescent ego. [01:18]
BingoBoingo: i.e. Bezos is on Trenbolone [01:18]
asciilifeform: wai would a richd00d take ballshrinkelixir [01:19]
mircea_popescu: wai would he wear a tshirt. [01:20]
BingoBoingo: Because Bezos sees pantsuit in disarray and wants to become a bull in move to capture pantsuit for self instead of being its bitch boy [01:20]
mircea_popescu: the "appear hamplanet harmless" ploy not even bad approach to that goal. [01:21]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> wai would a richd00d take ballshrinkelixir << Apparently some users find shrank balls more comfortable, also HCG can be used to preven the shrink [01:21]
mircea_popescu: gives "going to the shrink" a whole new layer. [01:23]
BingoBoingo: Anyways wears shirt because horrifying cystic acne. t-shirt because cotton is absorbent [01:30]
* BingoBoingo predicts trend of pantsuit boy CEO's getting into this sort of artificial masculinity and calling it "biohacking" [01:35]
mircea_popescu: i can see it. [01:35]
mircea_popescu: the other half of the faux dilemma. "transsexual or biohacker ?" [01:36]
mircea_popescu: "gotta pick one or the other!" [01:36]
BingoBoingo: It's a trilema: transexual, biohacker, or transmayo unsexual [01:36]
mircea_popescu: no that's the faux dilemma for females. [01:36]
mircea_popescu: "lich or greaseblob ? MUST PICK ONE!!1" [01:37]
BingoBoingo: Nah, it's the third gender [01:37]
mircea_popescu: they're all tired fucking genders. [01:37]
BingoBoingo: Nah, trenbolone isn't lich sort of thing. Definitely a "burn brighter, faster" sort of thing. Cattle feedlot stuff. [01:38]
BingoBoingo: Gotta get the steers to put on size without getting tough [01:39]
mircea_popescu: ic [01:39]
BingoBoingo: A marginally life shortening "Who wants to be 90 anyways" deal [01:40]
BingoBoingo: Essentially boosting the engine's compression without upgrading the plumbing, promotes cardiac and psychiatric deaths [01:41]
BingoBoingo: In the feedlot the doped of course are in supermarket before those outcomes can happen. [01:44]
mircea_popescu: i kinda like the idea tbh. [01:44]
mircea_popescu: gotta cut the total male-years somehow, and chem cockcage prolly even cheaper than the steel item. [01:45]
BingoBoingo: Of all the fake testosterones, Tren is the one that doesn't require supplementing with testosterone in order to allow boners, so popular. Does work as male birth control though. [01:46]
mircea_popescu: can i donate so usians take this stuff ? [01:47]
BingoBoingo: Not yet. [01:47]
mircea_popescu: gotta get some free tren clinics going. [01:48]
mircea_popescu: it seems to me like it'd be a human right. [01:48]
BingoBoingo: Well, there's manosphere community corners that promote the artificial testosteroning as the exact thing girly birth control is. Except with cool weight gain. [01:49]
trinque: seems pretty gay, according to my brief googling. wall of faggy before / after pics. [01:49]
BingoBoingo: Anyways, it doesn't actually do magic swole imparting without at least some exercise. [01:49]
mircea_popescu: obviously, that'd be the idea. [01:49]
trinque: in that, best and lulziest eugenics [01:49]
BingoBoingo: trinque: Bodybuilding is super gay [01:49]
BingoBoingo: brb, sleep [01:50]
trinque: BingoBoingo: better wash out your mind's eye first with !#s in other news [01:51]
mircea_popescu: lol! in other speaking of whiches, [01:52]
trinque: ah ah that's cheating! [01:52]
mircea_popescu: you think ? she looks just like duly owned property. [01:53]
trinque: nah I meant the segue variation we're gonna need one of those google AIs nao [01:57]
* trinque to bed also [01:57]
mircea_popescu: "p [01:57]
asciilifeform: << they're already 'eltsining' to death , with the good old bottle, no fancy dope needed necessarily [09:28]
scriba: Logged on 2017-07-18: [05:45:01] <mircea_popescu> gotta cut the total male-years somehow, and chem cockcage prolly even cheaper than the steel item. [09:28]
shinohai: <<< "We'll just roll back the chain, s'all good" [09:54]
mod6: mornin' [10:30]
shinohai: heya mod6 [10:33]
mod6: how goes today? [10:38]
shinohai: Not bad, another hot day already ... catching up on some reading, you? [10:42]
shinohai: !!up William_4042 [10:45]
deedbot: William_4042 voiced for 30 minutes. [10:45]
mod6: shinohai: yeah, been hot up here. horrid lately actually. [10:47]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in gypsy looks, [13:10]
shinohai: Buenas tardes Sr. Popescu [13:17]
mircea_popescu: hola. tho it's morn here. [13:29]
shinohai: Ah rite, you guys are 2 hours behind me ... (Stupid DST) [13:39]
mircea_popescu: :p [13:39]
shinohai: It is I, shinohai ....IM FROM TEH FUTURE1111 [13:40]
mircea_popescu: ahaha [13:40]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1522...9987 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown GB) [13:43]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1775...1423 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown GB) [13:43]
BingoBoingo: In other news, Trump's going to let Obamacare come to natural death and wait for new Senate after 2018 mid term. GOP primary season will now be VERY interesting. [13:59]
mircea_popescu: indeed [13:59]
mircea_popescu: correct play, too. he really has no interest in putting in the work to try and salvage the nonsense and the pantsuits will have a hell of a time arguing that "we put on the books laws that don't work because we expect they can be constantly patched as a matter of course -- and this is fine" [14:00]
mircea_popescu: next time -- write bugless code. [14:01]
BingoBoingo: Also there's more entertainers expressing interest in GOP contests. Pantsuit entertainers have horrid general election track record. GOP side though... Trumpreich. [14:01]
mircea_popescu: aha. [14:01]
mircea_popescu: hey, who knew conventionally-funny comics suck. [14:01]
BingoBoingo: And most GOP entertainers also value their brand enough to not sink it over giving mouth hugs to mommy state. [14:02]
mircea_popescu: that part remains to be seen. mebbe. [14:02]
BingoBoingo: Well, pantsuit has... Al Franken. GOP has Reagan, Sonny Bono, Etc. [14:03]
mircea_popescu: did he grab cher's pussy ? [14:03]
BingoBoingo: No idea, twat a different time. Hard to tell from that age's dense forests. [14:04]
mircea_popescu: lolz [14:04]
BingoBoingo: Pantsuit McCaskill is not seeking re-election in Missouri. Governor Greitens hasn't declared candidacy yet, but appears to be campaigning. [14:05]
mircea_popescu: was schwarzy republican or democrat in california ? i forget. [14:05]
BingoBoingo: Republican [14:05]
BingoBoingo: Well, GOP. No true Republicans get elected in the US. Not since Jefferson allegedly sired hundreds of farm implements himself. [14:06]
mircea_popescu: aha [14:07]
mircea_popescu: you know, back then it was the DEMOCRAT party running the poor-but-white blacks-are-farm-implements tickets. [14:07]
BingoBoingo: Switch happened in the 1950's through the 1970's. George Wallace was the last [14:08]
phf: << i'm not sure what happened. i initially misdiagnosed the issue, and lost the state necessary to figure out alternatives. i'm pretty sure though that the configuration parameters got reset (how??) and the bot was happily sitting on a random test channel [14:11]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 01:00 mircea_popescu: phf is a111 sick ? [14:11]
mircea_popescu: weird [14:12]
BingoBoingo: phf: Have you tried "beefing" a111 up with some Tren? Apparently works for AWS [14:12]
asciilifeform: phf: is that a usual fallback ? [14:12]
asciilifeform: ( test chan ) [14:12]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> << they're already 'eltsining' to death , with the good old bottle, no fancy dope needed necessarily << Not really, cars are too safe nowadays. With crumple zones it is hard to die as a drunk driver and the other alcoholic deaths take time. Also many of them ain't wired right to properly drink selves to death. Somehow their brains signal "drunk enough" and then they stop, I have no [14:14]
scriba: Logged on 2017-07-18: [05:45:01] <mircea_popescu> gotta cut the total male-years somehow, and chem cockcage prolly even cheaper than the steel item. [14:14]
BingoBoingo: idea how these aliens work. [14:14]
mircea_popescu: ^ word. i have seen kids drink these days. a) it's all beer and b) they think slightly buzzed = plastered. [14:15]
mircea_popescu: vast majority of female teenagers who go to school that i've encountered past years have never been drunk. [14:15]
phf: asciilifeform: so test chan is hard written in code, in a defvar, but there's a config (essentially a setq ...) that's supposed to override it. the config was missing (which i ~vaguely~ remember maybe accidentally doing myself). so in any case defvar should've stayed consistent no matter what. i'm not sure ~how~ it could get reset without a complete reload of an instance or an explicit setq [14:15]
mircea_popescu: phf really the only important knob after such event is to be able to set "likely bug" or "likely messed with". [14:16]
asciilifeform: phf: completereload (i.e. uininvited power cycle?) seems likely [14:17]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ^ word. i have seen kids drink these days. a) it's all beer and b) they think slightly buzzed = plastered. << Fuckers were also sober when arriving to bar [14:18]
phf: asciilifeform: nah, definitely not. there's too much state in "screen", that's been the same since forever. [14:18]
phf: it's weird enough that i'm going to spin up a new btcbase instance. this would be a really weird way to mess with it (why not nuke everything, etc.) and i'm sure i could've done something carelessly a while ago, and the things only now caught up, but i'd rather not experiment further. [14:19]
mircea_popescu: the "really weird way" argument is not very productive because enemy is both inept and fearful. [14:19]
mircea_popescu: that's when people do really weird things. [14:19]
asciilifeform: log bot seems like a pathetic choice of target, also [14:20]
mircea_popescu: depends if you're trying to learn or do. [14:20]
asciilifeform: ( why not something that ain't duplicated in 4 places in real time ) [14:20]
asciilifeform: and/or something with even 1 secret [14:20]
mircea_popescu: the problem with secrets is that the people who know where they are also know what they are. [14:21]
asciilifeform: i'm at a loss re what one can get from inside a111 that ain't easier to get from the upstream isp. [14:22]
mircea_popescu: "phf didn't notice" [14:22]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand this bit of GT : the knowledge of all the things you don't know thereby constructs a sybil of you. [14:23]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox to expand, this is too deep a koan for my small brain [14:24]
mircea_popescu: ok, let's start small. what's the one thing the lover needs to know in order to safely visit the cheating wife ? [14:24]
asciilifeform: when d00d is not home ? [14:24]
mircea_popescu: right. [14:24]
mircea_popescu: "in order to masquerade the husband, youthful aspirant needs knowledge of what... husband doesn't know" [14:25]
mircea_popescu: what is the basis of adolescent pretense to autonomy, independence and adulthood generally ? [14:25]
mircea_popescu: a keen awareness of... what their parents... don't notice. [14:25]
mircea_popescu: the things you don't know, if structured, become an alt-you. [14:25]
mircea_popescu: whether anyone steps into that form or not, the form IS. [14:25]
mircea_popescu: that is why it is so trivially easay for me to engage/defeat random pantsuit-minded kiddo straggling in here. his darkness is obviously structured. [14:26]
mircea_popescu: that's one statement as to why we dun wanna be socialist. I DON'T WANT MY ABSENCE OF MIND STRUCTURED MOTHERFUCKERS. [14:26]
mircea_popescu: etc. [14:26]
trinque: asciilifeform: doubtful it'd just be a111 my fail2ban.log is rather long too. and fwiw authlog appears to have fewer IPs when fail2ban's off, moar, when on. [14:28]
mircea_popescu: trinque say that last bit again ?! [14:29]
asciilifeform: yea i dun get it [14:29]
* trinque had fail2ban off for a while, and looked like there were mostly just two "chinese" IPs chewing on the box. when I re-enabled fail2ban, got moar IPs chewing, either by happenstance or one turd circumventing fail2ban. [14:30]
mircea_popescu: is the intimation here that fail2ban somehow communicates to the enemy ? [14:31]
trinque: just that whichever auto-ssh-chewer sybils it up when a particular IP gets banned [14:31]
mircea_popescu: aaa [14:31]
mircea_popescu: this is likely, actuaklly, chinese white man's computer liberation farm only forks on ban [14:32]
mircea_popescu: (this btw is quite possibly actual govt project seeing how drastically -ev it is) [14:33]
asciilifeform: trinque: i get these 'chinese' every day [14:37]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, to continue upstream : education is an effort to resolve the unknowledge-sybil problem. you take in the girl and know full well what she doesn't know, whip her, fuck her, not necessarily in this order, until she gets to the place where you don't know what she doesn't know, at which point she's an adult slave. [14:37]
asciilifeform: contemplated setting up a honeypot for them to see what is the payload, but ars longa [14:37]
mircea_popescu: which strictly means that she carries an indelible if invisible brand now, ie, that you could pick her out of any number of identical body clones. [14:39]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the knowledge problem is not so simple as pictured here. husband may be at work but built camera into the floor long before he met the whore. phf may know re box but not care ( asciilifeform for instance regards contents of hdd of rental servers as sacrificial , esp after theft of the original dulap , etc ) [14:39]
mircea_popescu: which is why it says "knowledge of what husband doesn't know". [14:40]
mircea_popescu: if he knows and you think he doesn't... guess what. now he'll sybil you. [14:40]
asciilifeform: unless 'husband' is stupid, this knowledge is in principle unavailable. [14:40]
mircea_popescu: because now HE knows what you dont know. etc. [14:40]
asciilifeform: this yes. [14:40]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but this is the point of all art and all science -- to avoid being stupid. [14:40]
mircea_popescu: precisely because such knowledge is in principle unavailable, ie, if you got fucked it's always because you stumbled. [14:41]
mircea_popescu: know the joke ? [14:41]
asciilifeform: hm? [14:41]
mircea_popescu: rooster sees hen and runs towards her. hen reflexively starts running away. after a short space the hen thinks "if i stop he'll think me a slut, if i keep running he'll think me stupid... how about i stumble." [14:42]
asciilifeform: ah this yea [14:42]
mircea_popescu: yeah. [14:42]
mircea_popescu: if you got fucked... at some point you "stumbled". [14:42]
BingoBoingo: Welcome back ag3nt_zer0 [14:47]
ag3nt_zer0: hey thanks BingoBoingo [14:47]
BingoBoingo: brb, sleep [14:47]
asciilifeform: trinque: fail2ban and similar, only help to unclutter logs [14:48]
asciilifeform: they give ~0 additional tightness unless your setup was catastrophically ill-conceived to begin with [14:48]
trinque: yep, no argument here. and agree re: rented boxes being rented toilets. [14:49]
mircea_popescu: turning off pw auth possibly unclutters them more [14:49]
asciilifeform: aha [14:49]
trinque: it's off. [14:49]
mircea_popescu: lol! [14:49]
trinque: anyhow the deedbot box has backups on archival dvd, deploy scripts to plop the thing onto another box, etc etc I'm sure same goes for other infrastructure [14:53]
trinque: somebody's just making sure his boss's boss knows SERIOUS WORK is being done [14:53]
asciilifeform: i thought state of the art 'serious work' was... stealing boxes [14:53]
asciilifeform: 'that'll show'em' [14:53]
trinque: probably in aggregate, on some spreadsheet i.e. X boxes were "SCANNED FOR VULNERABILITIES" [14:53]
mircea_popescu: oya. [14:54]
ag3nt_zer0: might anyone help me with this question? I created a paper wallet using transferred to little airgapped raspberry pi... not wanting to print on my wifi capable printer, I chose to write down the numbers. Now I am wanting to get my coins the hell off coinbase before the nonsense and am concerned that my private key is legit. so, I learned that I could go back on, offline of course, and click "wallet de [14:55]
mircea_popescu: your line got cut. [14:55]
ag3nt_zer0: will display the correspnding pubkey... if it did this and everything matched can I take this as absolute that I am controlling and privkey will work when I want to send in 10 years? [14:56]
trinque: ohey you found your passphrase eh? [14:56]
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 the point of a private key is that only you know it. [14:56]
ag3nt_zer0: yes [14:56]
ag3nt_zer0: but am i just to assume that ANY key generated is legitimate and will work when time comes? [14:57]
mircea_popescu: so you know, run a proper node, make a new address there, send whatever coinbase/bitaddress/whatever held funds to it and be done. [14:57]
ag3nt_zer0: keypair sorry [14:57]
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 you are to assume that no "generated" key is legitimate or will work reliably at any point. [14:57]
ag3nt_zer0: yeah [14:57]
mircea_popescu: get your own node going, have it keep your coin. [14:57]
ag3nt_zer0: trinque it was just !!v instead of the old !v [14:58]
mircea_popescu: if this is too inconvenient/complicated/expensiuve whatever, sell your bitcoin, now, and put the fiat in a fiat bank. [14:58]
ag3nt_zer0: mircea_popescu... yes I need to do this... is it more expedient for a newb like me to attempt this on my old G5 or should I try it on another rasbpi? [14:59]
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: really ought to keep up with the logs instead of doing these drive-bys [14:59]
shinohai: Generating keypairs, etc on trb node has worked reliably for me 100% of time since inception [14:59]
trinque: "I want to plan for my future, as expediently as possible." ? [14:59]
ag3nt_zer0: trinque no just worried about getting them out at august first [15:00]
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 if it doesn't take a ssd, prolly not useful for bitcoin node. otherwise i vaguely recall ppl trying the raspberry pi and blockverification taking too long [15:00]
ag3nt_zer0: expedient no correct word [15:00]
shinohai: (Especially now there is importprivkey function) [15:00]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: anything takes ssd, i have msdos boxes with ssd... [15:00]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform jus sayin' for his benefit. [15:00]
ag3nt_zer0: ok thank you all kindly for the responses [15:04]
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: don't be surprised, if waiting for aug1 or whatever 'wediditreddit event' to get your coin out of a gox, if they only offer to give it back in shitcoin ( or not at all ) [15:19]
asciilifeform: just say no to goxes. [15:19]
ag3nt_zer0: yes I am trying to get out by tomorrow asciilifeform [15:20]
ag3nt_zer0: all I can say is thank god I found this sanctuary of the guardians heh... otherwise who knows what I would be doing with my coins right now... [15:26]
asciilifeform: i actually never understood this, even before encountering mircea_popescu et al : [15:27]
asciilifeform: why is it that the early bitcoin folx had this 'burning hole in pocket' problem [15:27]
asciilifeform: from where comes the 'who knows what I would be doing with my coins right now' ? [15:28]
floog: i converted my btc to ltc until post-aug1 [15:28]
asciilifeform: lol why?! [15:28]
shinohai: jenyus [15:28]
mircea_popescu: lol [15:28]
floog: thought it would be safe? apparently you all disagree [15:29]
trinque: asciilifeform: insufficent forebrain to override hindbrain's itch for instant gratification [15:29]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform elstards are educated from birth to value things only by reference to the herd. it is not important for them to have a great fucktoy at home but it is very important for them to take home the girl all the other dorks imagine would be a great accomplishment to take home. [15:32]
mircea_popescu: which is why when i showed something awful the "here, you can pay people to do things to themselves" it BURNEDDDDDDD [15:32]
mircea_popescu: not simply because it empowers rapist-racist-pre-trump-trump-me, annoying as that may be but because it puts in question the integrity of their valuation mechanism. [15:32]
mircea_popescu: "maybe mp paid everyuone around me to tell me they'd be all impressed if i married the hairbrush???" [15:33]
mircea_popescu: to which the only correct answer is the obvious, "of course he did lol" [15:33]
mircea_popescu: so now -- why owning a ferrari is nothing, unles you can DO things with it, such as ride it around a clump of "your friends" ? [15:34]
mircea_popescu: it's a strange perversion of capitalism (whereby if it's not useful it's not worth jack) into displayism (whereby if it's not being seen it's not worth having). so you gotta... DO things with your bitcoin for your bitcoin to exist (not individually, but categorically -- a store of value "does not exist" in this addled worldview.) [15:35]
asciilifeform: i thought it was from old fiatola habit ('spend it nao or it evaporates anyway') [15:36]
mircea_popescu: i do not think so. these schmucks never had any money, they're the poor generation. their parents, yes, but these are the djb street urchins not the djbs. [15:36]
trinque: every idiot you pass on teh street glued to the glass rectangle is doing this. "omg, I exist, look there are notifications on the rectangle for 'me'" [15:37]
trinque: well not mircea_popescu, but asciilifeform passes them [15:37]
mircea_popescu: trinque hey, you have no idea. so sunday was large celebration, including parade with literal 1k horses. the people ON the horses ? [15:38]
mircea_popescu: yep, you guessed it, at least a quarter of the riders were taping away at any point. [15:38]
asciilifeform: lol!! [15:39]
asciilifeform: and not 1 fell off ? [15:39]
mircea_popescu: this with the horse underneath! which you know, needs your attention. [15:39]
mircea_popescu: very fucking disconcerted horses. [15:39]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notrly. horse is very loving, welcoming, girlfriend like animal. it's going to help you in whatever way it can / you need. [15:39]
mircea_popescu: but god damned... [15:39]
trinque: ah lol, too bad [15:39]
mircea_popescu: and in general you know, "i'm not interested in LOOKING at the horses, but where could i snap a selfie from ?" [15:40]
mircea_popescu: but the truly mindboggling thing, to me, was that they were all fine riders. somehow. i do not know how. feet correctly in the saddle, not one, all, the men, children, women, etc. proper grips on at least half the reins. and so on. [15:40]
mircea_popescu: and YET... [15:41]
mircea_popescu: see, cuz if they looked like "u of maryland goes on horseback", half the schmucks seated backwards or whatnot, then it'd make sense. but how did these people manage to acquire riding skills with the constant tapdistraction ? [15:41]
mircea_popescu: it must be from a time before, i've nothing else. [15:41]
ag3nt_zer0: asciilifeform... I just mean there is a lot of noise and this place seems to be the clear signal... and I say "seems" simply because I don't understand it as well as I would need to dispose of that qualifier [15:42]
trinque: << no sane authority, meaning erodes, can't create a self, masturbate in portable mirror? [15:42]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-15 15:38 mircea_popescu: there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning. [15:42]
mircea_popescu: obviously. [15:42]
trinque: mircea_popescu: I did see a rather long line at the McD's in San Jose when there [15:42]
shinohai: ag3nt_zer0: One needs to keep the antenna locked to receive the clear signal! [15:43]
asciilifeform: i suspect that moar folx in usa know how to fly plane, than to ride horse [15:43]
ag3nt_zer0: asciilifeform: for instance, I may have traded my coins for doge or whateva [15:43]
mircea_popescu: o yeah, for some reason they think us stuff is great. my elite grocer, that stocks everything including fine french wines ? they think HORMEL is the best brand of cured meats. [15:43]
asciilifeform: lol original spam [15:43]
mircea_popescu: you know ? [15:43]
mircea_popescu: it's so disconcerting, pate de foie, hormel crap, greek olives, line-up. wtf. [15:44]
asciilifeform: is it because of escapees from usa among the buyers ? [15:52]
asciilifeform: sad to say, i bet the spam ~moves~ [15:52]
asciilifeform: ( see also ) [15:53]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 17:06 asciilifeform: not long ago i saw a photo of some american mega-rich d00d, forget who, and nobody cares, his refrigerator, was full of synthetic 'budveiser' beer [15:53]
asciilifeform: !!up user705 [15:55]
deedbot: user705 voiced for 30 minutes. [15:55]
trinque: asciilifeform: no, lol, it was not american expats at the San Jose mcdonalds. [15:56]
asciilifeform: folx who grew up on 'vhs tape usa' then [15:57]
trinque: has to be. [15:57]
asciilifeform: though i'd imagine their population would be thinning by nao [15:57]
asciilifeform: ( actually taking a trip to usa is a ~guaranteed cure ) [15:57]
trinque: possibly not. perhaps the monkeybrain prefers insane authority to none. [15:59]
mircea_popescu: and speaking of naught in particular, isn't it shocking there's no pornstar named "natasha kinksky" ? [15:59]
trinque: now there's a perverse state in which to be trapped relying on the other's insanity to preserve the delusion of one's own sanity. [15:59]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i believe it's beause they very literallty and genuinely think the us crap is good. [16:00]
floog: <<< blue book is going to take 3 weeks to ship. any tips of what to read up on/learn in the meantime? [16:00]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-17 23:44 mircea_popescu: you know, if it seems a good next step then it likely is. [16:00]
mircea_popescu: hormel prolly status symbol. i have record of "eating at mcdo every sunday" being top of list of old woman trying to sell convenience marriagfe to her poetic daughter. [16:00]
mircea_popescu: floog you saw the topic ? [16:00]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform trip does not cure know plenty of girlies who studied "criminalisticologies" in us, came back laden with debt, trying to GET BACK. [16:01]
mircea_popescu: which is hysterical on its face. you... had to leave... because... it ... didn't suck ?! [16:02]
floog: mircea_popescu write V implementation?? [16:03]
mircea_popescu: for instance. [16:07]
mircea_popescu: or stand up a log bot, or whatever. run a trb node. run the ada implementation passed around recently of a big number calculator and produce 655356! to compare with the given values. [16:08]
mircea_popescu: the log is full of stuff to do. [16:08]
mircea_popescu: get a fg, run tests on it, report results, what have you. [16:08]
mircea_popescu: trinque that perverse state is called borderline personality disorder aka wrist sleeves. they generally end up playing enabler to all sorta nutty males. [16:09]
user705: is there a way to do a trb node not on Linux? [16:11]
mircea_popescu: can you compile c on the not linux ? [16:12]
lobbes: << This was exactly my case. I have same appreciation towards folx here as ag3nt_zer0. I bought first btc at $20 for purposes of silk road back in early 2014. Price quickly shot up. Found tardstalk 'securities'. I thought "Wow, pretty graphs and charts. Lemme try and catch the next boat11!" [16:13]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 19:29 trinque: asciilifeform: insufficent forebrain to override hindbrain's itch for instant gratification [16:13]
lobbes: Then I started reading the "trolls", then finally was lead here (I think it was pankkake that tipped me off). Then, it hit me like a "shit-ton of bricks (tm)": I'm retarded! The herd is retarded! I better stop, listen, learn from these evidently superior beings before I'm toast. [16:13]
shinohai: Sure, the foundation has trb.exe available on website [16:13]
mircea_popescu: it does ?! [16:13]
shinohai: /s [16:13]
shinohai: "Invalidating idle private keys to force them to upgrade" [16:16]
shinohai: I've seen it all now [16:16]
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut [16:16]
shinohai: How long befire the BTC phork crowd says "WE SHOULD TOTALLY DO THIS!!!!!" [16:17]
mircea_popescu: zooko lol. dude's been a cock puppet since what, day 1? [16:18]
user705: how would one define "idle" [16:18]
mircea_popescu: user705 "not on list usg.nsa gave zooko deniably" ? [16:18]
user705: oh mike hearn had that bright idea a while ago [16:19]
shinohai: Seems zooko also started a new scam coin ... Imma hafta come out of retirement for these lulz [16:19]
mircea_popescu: hey, ustards perceive "they got names", and gotta burn 'em to cash in. it's the way of progress! [16:19]
trinque: user705: weird how different people all seem to push in the same direction eh? [16:20]
trinque: must be wisdom of the crowd or something [16:20]
mircea_popescu: user705 inasmuch as it's not an idea, yeah. they all have the same ideas, being the same item. [16:20]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the official slack hangout, [16:21]
user705: if ever there was a great price entry point is when people like them quit BTC [16:21]
mircea_popescu: define quit. [16:21]
mircea_popescu: stop talking about it ? won't happen. stop being meaningfully involved ? they never were. which of 0, infinity was your notion ? [16:22]
user705: in his case "quit" was he sold it all or so he said and who knows how much "all" really was [16:23]
mircea_popescu: he never had any. [16:23]
mircea_popescu: all the usg experts, from gavin down, were from the get-go paid in fiat to see what they can do to further fiat interest in the republic no more. [16:24]
mircea_popescu: that vesseness could run his scam foundation a little longer by pretending to take donations "for paying gavin's salary" was simply an expedient cover-up. gavin was getting a nsa salary anyway. to pretend like "btc donations" from suckers paid for it was cheap enough a cover-up. [16:25]
mircea_popescu: this is how teh usg does things, and always has. it takes a special sort of idiot to actually buy into their web of nonsense [16:25]
mircea_popescu: but thart's ok, as they actually breed the requisite sort of idiot themselves. [16:26]
shinohai: The same lie Bruce Fenton tried to sell when attempting to resurrect it [16:26]
mircea_popescu: and why not. if it works it works so they get a little more juice, and if it doesn't work... not like anyone's going to jail. [16:26]
mircea_popescu: by the time they're going to jail everyone is anyway, so, they are correctly judging -- better hang for the sheep along with the calf, we're all dead men anyway. [16:27]
asciilifeform: << blue book what ? [16:40]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 20:00 floog: <<< blue book is going to take 3 weeks to ship. any tips of what to read up on/learn in the meantime? [16:40]
asciilifeform: << why would they want to go back?! eager to get back into debt peonage?? [16:41]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 20:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform trip does not cure know plenty of girlies who studied "criminalisticologies" in us, came back laden with debt, trying to GET BACK. [16:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the place caters very well to the lazy vanity of the inept. [16:41]
asciilifeform: << there were experiments with openbsd, but iirc it is not a currently supported os. so answer is linux unless you're willing to port. [16:41]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 20:11 user705: is there a way to do a trb node not on Linux? [16:41]
floog: asciilifeform schneier's applied cryptography 1st edition [16:41]
asciilifeform: waiwat [16:41]
mircea_popescu: they "have rights" which is to say, debt peonage is never going to be the south east asian brothel bed, or the debtor's prison, or marylebone workhouse. [16:41]
mircea_popescu: rather than put up with their manifest insufficiency and social inferiority at home, they find it preferable to go be "equal" to "everyone" in dumblandia. [16:42]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's ordered the early cycle schneier book, what. [16:42]
asciilifeform: aah [16:42]
asciilifeform: there is some confusion re subj, and i fear that i created it : [16:43]
asciilifeform: 1) schneier 'applied crypto' 1st ed : blue soft cover. [16:43]
asciilifeform: 2) schneier 'applied crypto' 2nd ed , 1996 : red cover [16:44]
asciilifeform: 2 is NOT censored edition, it is more or less same as 1. [16:44]
asciilifeform: but there also exists a 3 : [16:44]
asciilifeform: 'cryptography engineering' . dark blue/blackish cover [16:44]
floog: is 1st edition censored? [16:44]
asciilifeform: (2010). and it is ENTIRELY different book, largely fluff, 0 mathematics, thin [16:45]
asciilifeform: 1 and 2 are interchangeable for all purposes afaik [16:45]
asciilifeform: 3 is rubbish [16:45]
asciilifeform: 'applied crypto' is moar of an encyclopaedia than anything else [16:46]
asciilifeform: incidentally, the mega-b00k from which schneier et al plagiarize ~everything, is : 'handbook of applied crypgography', crc press [16:47]
asciilifeform: by vanstone et al [16:47]
asciilifeform: *cryptography [16:48]
floog: so, is vanstone > schneier? [16:50]
asciilifeform: imho. [16:50]
asciilifeform: heavier on the mathematics, lighter on the chitchat [16:51]
asciilifeform: ( contains, for instance, pretty good review of finite field arithmetic methods ) [16:52]
floog: basically, i realized that i suck, and i want to suck less. so i plan to read schneier per ben_vulpes' blog post's recommendation. but maybe i should read vanstone instead? [16:54]
mircea_popescu: read both, what's the trouble. [16:54]
asciilifeform: they're encyclopaedias, read whichever sections pleases you [16:54]
asciilifeform: i started with ancient copy of schneier, later found the vanstone and realized that it is a superset [16:55]
floog: # of hours in the day [16:56]
asciilifeform: a very large fraction of ~both~ is devoted to rubbish (des, kerberos, dsa) which are of strictly archaeological/entomological interest [16:56]
asciilifeform: << in usa it is 'soft' peonage -- all it does is, if somebody pays you in electro-usgolade, they take ~80% if you inherit property , they take whole thing [17:02]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 20:41 mircea_popescu: they "have rights" which is to say, debt peonage is never going to be the south east asian brothel bed, or the debtor's prison, or marylebone workhouse. [17:02]
mircea_popescu: what's indigent to inherit. [17:03]
mircea_popescu: besides, she figures if she were to inherit shje'\d just run back home. [17:03]
asciilifeform: they have parents neh [17:03]
asciilifeform: well yes, back home where irs is waiting [17:03]
mircea_popescu: in costa rica ? lol. [17:03]
asciilifeform: mno, usa [17:03]
asciilifeform: i thought thread was re 'they want back to usa' [17:03]
mircea_popescu: under discussion was orc girl of no particular qualities aspiring to criminogogology degree from us. [17:04]
asciilifeform: aaaa [17:04]
asciilifeform: orc gurl aite [17:04]
asciilifeform: i thought subj were escapee from usa [17:04]
mircea_popescu: no. girl from here, goes there, gets "degree", HAS TO COME BACK [17:04]
mircea_popescu: somehow this is !== "degree sucks" in her head, wants to go back for another spin. [17:04]
asciilifeform: maybe another spin at 'mrs degree' ? [17:05]
mircea_popescu: this is how they get pregnant, normally, but the usg has managed to turn that innate female idiocy into actual demographic aggregator for it. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: she's basically raising cats. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: "costs nothing" and "love her". after a fashion, both of these. [17:05]
whaack: what's the point of learning crypto for plebians, the concepts are too hard to follow. there are so many traps in number theory, and the argument to believe that using a scheme like RSA is secure requires understanding so many lemmas. It's so easy to make a false proof, how can one not believe they're not being duped (intentionally or unintentionally) along the way to enlightenment. The one time pad is really the only thing I trust to t [17:06]
whaack: his day. [17:06]
mircea_popescu: the point of learning is learning, not immediate productivity. [17:06]
mircea_popescu: some people are curious some aren't. [17:06]
whaack: so it's just for the pleasure of learning? [17:07]
mircea_popescu: sure. [17:08]
asciilifeform: what's the point of learning aerodynamics for plebians, the concepts are too hard to follow, there are so many traps in flying, and the argument to believe that it is possible to safely travel in an airplane requires understanding so many lemmas. it is easy to get into a spin, how can one not believe they are not headed screaming into the ground along the way.... [17:09]
trinque: eating a bullet would put an end to all this fretful uncertainty! [17:10]
whaack: aha [17:10]
trinque: of course what if it doesn't fire [17:10]
asciilifeform: better make it a 30mm flak round to be sure [17:10]
shinohai: lolz trinque [17:10]
asciilifeform: << that there's the endgame of all usgcoinisms, neh. [17:16]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 20:16 shinohai: "Invalidating idle private keys to force them to upgrade" [17:16]
asciilifeform: is whole point. [17:16]
mircea_popescu: well, whole point would be if the ugly fat kid would get the whole world to love him. but, fail that, picking and choosing which other's private keys can do what when will have to do as a substitute. [17:48]
mircea_popescu: anyway, to revisit whaack 's earlier lament : never trust the man who says "don't worry your pretty head, sweet" unless you're quite meaning to be whored out because meaning or not, it's gonna happen. [17:57]
whaack: i'm not advocating one doesn't make an effort to learn, I'm just pointing out that the material covered does not "fit in head" (as alf puts it) very easily and thus the main thing gotten from that book, for me at least, is the deep complexity involved with some of these schemes [18:37]
trinque: loving mother nature says get a bigger head, or die [18:38]
mircea_popescu: what fits in head depends also on the structuring of the head. [18:38]
mircea_popescu: which you know, occurs through contact with complexity and labour upon it. [18:38]
mircea_popescu: for instance : alf gets so livid when certain classes of events occur because they contradict assumptions he's made upon which he built the particular head-fitter he uses. they'd better hold, or else the whole thing is in danger. specifically : a lot less could be fit in head. [18:41]
mircea_popescu: the discussion as to height of towers and men in prison is apropos. [18:41]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [18:58]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2281.99, vol: 26868.80278162 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2208.284, vol: 9938.34654 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2280.9, vol: 45477.77645019 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2342.845446, vol: 17924.89030000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2275.0, vol: 14988.9936529 | Volume-weighted last average: 2283.76057022 [18:58]
asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break' [18:58]
asciilifeform: it does not fit in any head because it is rubbish, specifically constructed to be difficult to analyze, but not by virtue of this any more secure in any sense you might care about [18:59]
asciilifeform: ( specifically it is secure ~against your analysis~, but not the nsa designer's ) [19:00]
whaack: aha yes the blockcipher schemes always seem to be security-by-obfuscation [19:00]
mircea_popescu: they're really just tradition-wank [19:01]
asciilifeform: << mircea_popescu would enjoy surprises no moar than asciilifeform does if he did not have a thick layer of otherpeople to insulate own skin from them [19:01]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 22:41 mircea_popescu: for instance : alf gets so livid when certain classes of events occur because they contradict assumptions he's made upon which he built the particular head-fitter he uses. they'd better hold, or else the whole thing is in danger. specifically : a lot less could be fit in head. [19:01]
mircea_popescu: "oh, enigma machine sucked, surely if we used computer to emulate one WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER" [19:01]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was not proposing that as a flaw. [19:01]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, ALL, without exception, blockcipher and streamcipher, published to date, are ~enigma [19:01]
mircea_popescu: arguably not as well made, either. the original had a lot of "boxes" and shit. [19:02]
asciilifeform: actually quite same. [19:02]
asciilifeform: ( today's, e.g. aes, have moar boxes still. but same principle, of rearrangement. ) [19:03]
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, best handle for masochistic subbie on bdsm site ? [19:08]
mircea_popescu: tvoyasovest. [19:08]
ben_vulpes: in other toxic masculinity news, one of the guys i share the office with brought a set of olympic weights in [19:56]
mircea_popescu: is this bad for fiatcoin ? [19:56]
ben_vulpes: swole wot is bad for fiatcoin, yes [19:57]
mircea_popescu: a ok then [19:57]
mircea_popescu: funny that antiseptic masculinity should be deemed toxic by the very bugs it is there to exterminate. [20:02]
mircea_popescu: i could have not predicted this entirely surprising turn of events. [20:02]
mircea_popescu: should have listend when toupac told us all to get credit cards. [20:03]
sina: hullo [20:20]
shinohai: how's sins? [20:20]
sina: asciilifeform: if you are about I have a question for the resident expert on constanttime stuff [20:20]
sina: hi shinohai! nb, and you? [20:20]
shinohai: Same [20:21]
sina: asciilifeform: basically I am wondering about the "threat model" of constanttime sidechannel stuffs. for example, let's say I want to write you an email with RSA encrypted body, or receive same from you, is there really a sidechannel there? I guess I'm asking in terms of async vs sync encrypted comms [20:22]
mircea_popescu: sina you mean, is there a side channel for constant time ops ? or for rsa as commonly implemented atm ? [20:22]
sina: as commonly implemented [20:23]
sina: I mean, I get that there are timing attacks you could perform if there was a synchronous stream of traffic happening [20:23]
mircea_popescu: as commonly implem,ented, yes. [20:24]
sina: but if I write an email on my box, encrypt it with RSA, then send it...what timing info can be derived? [20:24]
sina: can you give me an example situation mircea_popescu? [20:24]
mircea_popescu: actual key recovery via acousting channel has been demonstrated recently power lines both in draw and as antenna have long been known to leak key bits. [20:24]
mircea_popescu: etcetera. [20:24]
mircea_popescu: sina example situation, you decrypt your message in a room with an ipad, lose the key. [20:25]
sina: I lose the key because an adversary is nearby watching all my EMR? [20:27]
mircea_popescu: because the processor clicks slightly as it works and if you fork on secret bits you are thereby giving the secret bits away. [20:27]
sina: giving them away to whom? certainly not to a passive network adversary...right? [20:27]
mircea_popescu: to anyone who happens to listen. [20:28]
sina: "to listen" [20:28]
mircea_popescu: it is perfectly conceivable that by following eg your delay in response to pings on a network-routable box while a decryption is in progress, at least part of the key material can be derived. [20:28]
asciilifeform: sina: your question is in fact a repeat of old thread , which you participated in, [20:29]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:45 asciilifeform: EVERYONE eventually asks this [20:29]
mircea_popescu: sina doesn't have to be "emr". it can be the resonant behaviour of your power lines or the acoustic polution in the room or ping delays or anything else. [20:29]
mircea_popescu: cache hits to reference the recent rowhammer lulz, you name it. [20:29]
asciilifeform: the 'write an email on my box, encrypt it with RSA, then send it...what timing info can be derived' contention is merely a special case of [20:29]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:47 sina: any actual practical example of making it spill out of the time box? lets say two independent processes, one is preparing the payloads and putting them in an "outbox" [20:29]
asciilifeform: sina: do you know the story of the synchronized machine gun ? [20:29]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently it didn't take. [20:29]
sina: asciilifeform: if you would consider this question as a continuation of that thread rather than repeat, I'd appreciate [20:30]
asciilifeform: in ww1, at first flyers had to be content with dropping caltrops, frags, firing revolvers, from the cockpit [20:30]
sina: however I would note that at the end of that thread it was still unclear to me how the final model I proposed was unsafe in any case [20:30]
asciilifeform: but this was quickly found to be a sad joke, folx wanted to mount machine gun [20:30]
asciilifeform: problem is, how do you aim. [20:30]
asciilifeform: can have a second man, but in the cardboard planes this was an expensive mass proposition. [20:31]
sina: right, I know the thing of synchronizing bullets with the propellor spins [20:31]
asciilifeform: so the coaxial -- with propeller -- was chosen [20:31]
asciilifeform: anyway, the 'modern' scheme, with the synchronized bolt, is a german invention [20:31]
asciilifeform: the french at first took the idiot path of... armouring propellers. [20:31]
asciilifeform: the 'release modular exponentiation result after time T' is an armoured propeller. [20:32]
asciilifeform: is it obvious how, or is it necessary to explain ? [20:32]
sina: I guess I should rephrase my question [20:32]
sina: what I'm trying to understand, is which adversaries can mount a timing attack, and which cannot, given async comms [20:33]
trinque: .. just gotta get the thing to leak your sleep timing too [20:33]
asciilifeform: sina: there is a ru proverb, pertinent, also : 'you cannot conceal an awl inside a sack' [20:33]
asciilifeform: your modularexp is an awl [20:33]
asciilifeform: the hypothetical 'time envelope' -- sack [20:34]
asciilifeform: it is enough for the awl to pierce the sack exactly once, anywhere. [20:34]
sina: what's awl [20:34]
asciilifeform: sina: sharp tool for sewing in leather [20:34]
sina: asciilifeform: so what software do you currently use for RSA encryption [20:35]
sina: my understandinf of your POV is that there is currently no adequate constanttime impl [20:36]
asciilifeform: sina: currently there is exactly 1 rsatron that anybody worth mentioning uses, gpg. which is a sad joke in 9,001 ways, and slated for replacement [20:36]
asciilifeform: the 1 constanttime implementation -- is mine [20:37]
asciilifeform: but it is right now in prototype phase [20:37]
sina: right. so you use it, despite it being as "awlish" as anything? [20:37]
trinque: there is even a historic copy of grandfather's pistol in deedbot [20:37]
sina: which is fine, and I guess my point, because you must understand there is some adversary which can read your keys and some which cannot and you as of current, accept the risk [20:38]
trinque: sina: what are you driving at? [20:38]
trinque: rubber stamp of your own use of gpg? [20:38]
sina: no [20:38]
sina: just, hopefully a list of adversary capability mapping to outcomes [20:38]
sina: for the purpose of proper understanding [20:38]
sina: e.g. asciilifeform uses gpg, even though he knows some adversary might read his key via timing attack, because the list of adversary which can do so, he has discounted [20:39]
sina: for now anyway [20:39]
asciilifeform: sina: our 18th ancestors' perspectives on hygiene are not advice to the modern thinking man. [20:39]
asciilifeform: ditto gpg. [20:39]
sina: again, it's understood [20:39]
sina: asciilifeform: "you cannot conceal an awl inside a sack" understood and accepted [20:40]
trinque: that you are on a field being mortared does not mean you've discounted the enemy [20:40]
trinque: just that you're there, so might get hit. [20:40]
sina: given that. what are the practicalities, today, on the ground [20:40]
trinque: might think of moving, while you're still alive [20:40]
asciilifeform: sina: the practicalities are - that every time you unholster your gpg key, you broadcast a few bits of it. [20:40]
asciilifeform: whether anybody happens to be listening is separate consideration. [20:41]
asciilifeform: the other practicality is that certain hypothetical uses of rsa -- such as specifically gossipd -- magnify this leak to the point where you are broadcasting the key at a few kHz [20:42]
sina: trinque: to extend your analogy. you are on a field, in a crater. you are ~impervious to horizontal machine gun attack thanks to the crater, but vulnerable to mortar attack [20:42]
trinque: there's this reaction to the NSA mindrape that ought to be pointed at directly. and more broadly the socialist mindrape. [20:42]
trinque: "yes things are that bad. have a great day!" [20:42]
sina: trinque: my question being, given a sina sitting in the crater, what is the list of things ~impervious to, what is the list of things not [20:43]
trinque: sina: you do not and likely will not know the manifold ways modern computing has been perforated for imperial tyranny [20:44]
sina: none of us do, and yet, tmsr uses "18th century hygeine" anyway. I am assuming because of considered evaluation of possible threats and their outcome [20:45]
sina: at least until 21st century hygeine comes along [20:45]
sina: no? [20:45]
asciilifeform: sina: what argument are you trying to make ? [20:45]
sina: no argument sir [20:46]
sina: only seeking of complete understanding [20:46]
sina: given observation of behaviours [20:46]
sina: feel free to say "it's a dumb question, go away" [20:47]
sina: I ask here, because I feel here can give a useful answer [20:47]
trinque: not a dumb question, just already answered [20:48]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 00:40 asciilifeform: sina: the practicalities are - that every time you unholster your gpg key, you broadcast a few bits of it. [20:48]
sina: trinque: given the quoted statement, what are the implications? for example, does it imply that a passive network adversary will not be in a position to mount a timing attack? or does it so? [20:49]
sina: can I safely state, if I want to email trinque RSA encrypted cake recipe, that asciilifeform can never read it? [20:49]
asciilifeform: if it's 500 recipes / sec for an hour, i'll read it [20:51]
asciilifeform: otherwise may or may not, but YOU DON'T KNOW which [20:51]
sina: or to ask alternatively, broadcast to whom? [20:51]
asciilifeform: there isn't a 'to whom', that's what word 'broadcast' ~means~ [20:51]
sina: anyone who can ping my box? anyone in the world? [20:51]
asciilifeform: it's a 'to whom it may concern..' [20:51]
asciilifeform: to your neighbour, watching the room lights to passer-by with antenna to your isp varies [20:52]
asciilifeform: to the other electronics, of various provenance, in your house. in your neighbour's house. to martians. etc [20:52]
trinque: to the antenna in your CPU! lets go full tinfoil. [20:52]
asciilifeform: to whoever sits on your pole transformer. [20:52]
asciilifeform: this list is arbitrarily long and NECESSARILY incomplete [20:52]
asciilifeform: and ill-conceived -- 'enumeration of badness' [20:53]
asciilifeform: but refusing to actually plug the leak at the source, dooms you to it [20:53]
trinque: !#s enumeration of badness [20:53]
a111: 2 results for "enumeration of badness", [20:53]
sina: and yet, here we all are, encrypting, decrypting, signing ascii with some RSA stuff all the time, in spite of that [20:54]
asciilifeform: sina: i'll ask just this one more time : what is your argument ? [20:55]
trinque: sina: be brave and actually state what made you say that. [20:55]
sina: it's not an argument, only the next thought that pops into my head as a consequence of the discussion. all here seem on the same page re constanttime stuff, yet all here are using the tool in spite of that, so there must be some thought process which allows someone as reasonably paranoid as asciilifeform to do so, i.e. "I am not concerned with timing attacks of class X, Y, Z from adversary A, B,C when I [20:57]
sina: want to send my encrypted cake recipe to trinque" [20:57]
trinque: if standing on hot coals, I bet you'd run even though you'd only step on more coals, at least for a while. [20:57]
trinque: and meanwhile only sensible strategy would be to move quickly / step as few times as possible til off [20:58]
sina: otherwise asciilifeform would surely say "what is the point of encrypting, I am broadcasting my key to all, every time" [20:58]
sina: does my line of thought really make so little sense? [20:58]
sina: again to reiterate I seek only understanding, not to make a point or argument [20:59]
asciilifeform: == 'what is the point of obeying traffic signals, i have a good chance of death in traffic anyway' [20:59]
trinque: sina: never been in a situation where you both had to act and there were no good options? [21:00]
trinque: (people gotta live more) [21:00]
sina: trinque: of course! and I ask, is there no value in understanding the consequences of a given act? [21:00]
sina: it seems the answer so far given is only "the consequence is always the worst, given this particular act" [21:01]
sina: but that is not congruent with actions taken, otherwise all here would treat their keys as compromised? [21:02]
sina: whereas I am asking, what is the gradient of consequence, given differing scenarios and adversaries [21:03]
trinque: how would you measure whether they are or not, other than acting in the world and seeing if you fail? [21:03]
trinque: and meanwhile refining methods seems sensible [21:03]
sina: trinque: does the general commit his troops to an action and see if he fails? or try and understand the enemy movement and tactics, to say "ok, crossing the bridge with enemy awaiting on farside, bad idea" without needing to act on it [21:04]
sina: and so it is, "do not encrypt 500 cake recipes a second" [21:05]
trinque: absent asciilifeform's expertise which gave ^ as output, one'd just turn that into a totem [21:06]
asciilifeform: sina: you DON'T KNOW that it's 500 [21:06]
asciilifeform: could be 499. could be 4. [21:06]
trinque: and it wasn't a specific example [21:06]
asciilifeform: whereas if you simply DON'T MOTHERFUCKING LEAK, it doesn't matter if 500, 5,000,000, whatever. [21:06]
trinque: sorta like these guys that come through asking what to do with their raspberry pi wallet or w/e, life savings in dogecoin [21:06]
asciilifeform: i had nfi that this is a difficult concept. [21:06]
sina: alright. please let me attempt to summarise the discussion thus far, and correct any misconceptions [21:07]
sina: "today, until a constanttime solution is in place, gpg is the tool of choice for RSA encryption. any time you use it, you can't know whether you have completely compromised your private key. and we use it anyway." [21:08]
mircea_popescu: sina> just, hopefully a list of adversary capability mapping to outcomes << anyone who can listen in (ie, intercept acoustic band) within a mile or so of your machine, can derive your key that way. anyone who can measure your power draw (say, up to the pole) can derive your key that way. anyone who can route to your box, and measure delays, can idem. [21:08]
mircea_popescu: for as long as you're running the "awl" there are no solutions for this -- just mitigations. do not permit micrphones do not permit antennas use inductor&battery arrangements shoot anyone seen approaching the solitary hilltop fortress and so on and so forth ad infinitum. [21:09]
mircea_popescu: the costs of mitigation ever mount, which is why a proper solution is even contemplated. [21:10]
sina: mircea_popescu: if that is a complete list, then I am content with a useful answer. [21:10]
mircea_popescu: there can never be a complete list. [21:10]
mircea_popescu: it is a reasonably complete list. [21:10]
sina: then I am reasonably content :P [21:11]
sina: asciilifeform, trinque, no misconceptions in my summary? [21:12]
trinque: just the contentment! [21:13]
sina: trinque: to clarify, contentment in understanding, not of the status quo [21:13]
trinque: is joek [21:13]
mircea_popescu: to this point : depends how much you're worth. if you're worth nothing, then you are thereby "safe" in this sense, that while protein rich i still don't eat the moths in my house. [21:13]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 00:40 sina: given that. what are the practicalities, today, on the ground [21:13]
mircea_popescu: otherwise, in order of cheapness-effectivity : 1) get an isolated box for rsa ops. this shouldn't ever connect ot the internet. stuffing into it a stick which was in a net-connected machine counts. [21:13]
mircea_popescu: 2) get a proper power supply. this means -- that the power line should feed a battery, not your machine. you can measure leakage if you will, so this can be tweaked by hand to an arbitrary level. [21:14]
mircea_popescu: 3) get a n-p detector, armed guards, your own spying machinery, declare interdiction zones, etcetera. [21:15]
mircea_popescu: 4) infiltrate all conceivable enemies with your own agents [21:15]
mircea_popescu: 5) take over the crown. [21:16]
sina: mircea_popescu: only as a matter of curiosity, given your worth re above statement, do you take any of these actions? [21:16]
mircea_popescu: somewhere between 1 and 3 most people have enough bellyache. because, really, it's never fucking worth it to 5. [21:16]
mircea_popescu: sina yes. i actually infiltrate all conceivable enemies. [21:16]
sina: :D [21:16]
sina: it's a picture of mircea_popescu [21:17]
mircea_popescu: whossat ? [21:18]
sina: some actor playing the character of "Vizzini" in "The Princess Bride" [21:18]
sina: also a famous internet meme [21:19]
mircea_popescu: what's the intension ? [21:19]
sina: is joek [21:19]
mircea_popescu: i get that part, but what does it aim to, what's the tendency ? [21:20]
mircea_popescu: << discussion of 5. [21:21]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-16 19:52 mircea_popescu: romania incidentally has a long history of just this, it's called fanarioti period. hundreds of groups over 3-4 centuries did just this, kept taking over because pissed off with insolence of ex crown. discovered worse deal to be king. [21:21]
sina: oh. so in the movie Vizzini is the supersmart villain trying to kidnap this lady, and the good guy Dread Pirate Roberts keeps chasing him despite various obstacles Vizzini has created [21:21]
sina: whenever DPR does a thing, Vizzini is forced to say "Inconceivable" [21:21]
sina: [21:22]
mircea_popescu: ah that's who that was. [21:22]
* mircea_popescu has seen the "you killed my father" a long time ago. [21:22]
sina: that is the one, although the book from which it derived is equally enjoyable [21:23]
sina: actually this quote seems like 100% mircea_popescu [21:24]
sina: "You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses while your back was turned! Ha ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha... " [21:24]
sina: I mean I can picture reading it in the logs [21:24]
mircea_popescu: i can't fwiw [21:24]
trinque: oh jeez. [21:24]
sina: << lellll [21:25]
a111: Logged on 2015-12-28 01:23 mircea_popescu: the dictum "never get involved in a land war in asia" is mostly due to the fact that the portuguese were involved in a sea war in asia, and it worked splendidly for them. [21:25]
mircea_popescu: aha. [21:25]
sina: seek and ye shall find [21:25]
mircea_popescu: dja see the difference in quality ? [21:26]
mircea_popescu: not that i fault penny-an-hour hack/writer for not being able to reproduce reality in his fancy. [21:26]
sina: mircea_popescu: and yet it is so, the logs are the only place I can imagine such a sentence being discussed today [21:27]
hanbot: lol this poor guy's been trying to have a chuckle the last 20 mins...NOT ALLOWED! [21:27]
mircea_popescu: better chuckles! [21:27]
mircea_popescu: HA HA HA HA HA ha [21:27]
mircea_popescu: << altogether not even much of a question. [21:29]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 00:47 sina: feel free to say "it's a dumb question, go away" [21:29]
sina: anyhooz. patience from the usual suspects on RSA discussion greatly appreciated. must be off, have wonderful days all. [21:29]
mircea_popescu: the theory is that there's no "best practices", and deliberately. i'm pretty sure the practice follows the theory, but we'll definitely never know. [21:29]
mircea_popescu: <<< yes, because you're applying the pretense of statics to a dynamic situation. trinque 's metaphore is very much factual : we were paradopped on hot coals, by the FAULT, inexcusable, and indelible, of our parents. they should have taken care that we do not get dropped on hot coals, as children barely able to move. they did not, and derelict in their first and practically speaking on [21:32]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 00:58 sina: does my line of thought really make so little sense? [21:32]
mircea_popescu: ly duty can never be forgiven. [21:32]
mircea_popescu: and once there... well... there'll be more stepping on more coals to get away. [21:32]
lobbes: in other questions: Prompted by up-stack threads and after much log reading I've concluded that a SSD is a must for trb-ing. Would an external usb SSD be adequate, versus, say a SATA connection? [21:37]
asciilifeform: lobbes: generally no [21:37]
lobbes: okay [21:37]
asciilifeform: ( clogs the bus ) [21:38]
lobbes: damn. looks like my plans for my old craptop being a trb node will have to wait until I secure better iron. [21:40]
asciilifeform: it doesn't hurt to try [21:40]
asciilifeform: but in my experience they make poor nodes. [21:40]
lobbes: I'll learn shit in the process, at least. [21:41]
mod6: never hurts, get the kinks out early [21:52]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the emaciated future, [22:42]
BingoBoingo: <sina> whenever DPR does a thing, Vizzini is forced to say "Inconceivable" << Except irl, mircea_popescu is not short and DPR sits in sodomy box while mircea_popescu's muscle has titties [22:50]
BingoBoingo: <lobbes> damn. looks like my plans for my old craptop being a trb node will have to wait until I secure better iron. << Why can old craptop not eat SSD? [22:51]
mircea_popescu: possibly he doesn't want to pop the lid. [22:58]
mircea_popescu: a sentiment i can sympathize with -- no better way to ruin the day of cleanfreak chick than making her open up her years-old laptop. [22:59]
asciilifeform: pbfffffft [22:59]
asciilifeform: ( am i the only one who still cleans these regularly ? ) [23:00]
* BingoBoingo cleans [23:00]
mircea_popescu: well certainly people who don't know they come apart don't regularly anything. [23:00]
mircea_popescu: "i'm not only a virgin, but i never laid a hand on my slit" comes with a smegma guarantee. [23:01]
mircea_popescu: or in other words, innocence and drunkedness are, in that order, the superlative degrees of unhygienicity. [23:01]
BingoBoingo: Well, this is the story of how the puritains ruined America. "It dun work" "Have you tried cleaning it?" "STFU Imma not touch the filth" ... Disposable everythings [23:03]
asciilifeform: it isn't like you gotta clean it with own tongue [23:03]
mircea_popescu: keks [23:03]
* BingoBoingo has met people who after touching granular pesticide barehanded tried to insist "hand sanitizer" was sufficient cleaning. [23:04]
* BingoBoingo insisted STFU, GO HOSE!!! [23:04]
* BingoBoingo wonders how reactive a hand santizer would have to be to reliably convert most organic compounds to "safe" forms. Likely would look like a hand solving vat of H2SO4 + H2O2 [23:06]
asciilifeform: 'national razor' lol [23:07]
BingoBoingo: Product nothing seriously toxic, just permetherins and fuller's earth but still. [23:10]
mircea_popescu: you just wanted her to splash hose water on her tits. [23:10]
BingoBoingo: Nah, was old woman. Sent to hose herself. [23:12]
Category: Logs
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