Forum logs for 16 Jan 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
* jurov has some particle board ceilings on otherwise brick house. it's so incredibly shitty material - when bolted small light LED lamps on it, one fell out later :/ [04:21]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, uy1 up (1 day + 20h ) , avg temp for last 12 hr : 52C [09:03]
asciilifeform: current 52.0C cpu, chipset 31.8C [09:03]
asciilifeform: incidentally : raid verify is set for midnight saturday. which iirc was the time of the first reset. [09:07]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma include 2 spare raid controllers in the cargo, iirc our spare pile of these was depleted [09:08]
asciilifeform: ( they are cheap ) [09:09]
shinohai: !!key diana_coman [09:26]
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/E72DCCB73A5E06694C5CD781D5196EE6390F999E.asc [09:26]
billymg: hanbot: approved the comment, ty! [09:56]
billymg: trinque: i made a deposit on sunday in order to cover my pizarro invoice but it's not showing up in my balance yet. i'm not in a hurry but curious about the status of it [09:59]
mircea_popescu: evidently raid arrays made out of particle board [10:18]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That sounds solid. If the cargo is 48 Rockchips 1U of server and 1U+ of spare parts, that's still 4U of material. [10:23]
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-15-jan-2019#2510645 << In order of structural value: Spruce (not in the botanical sense), Douglas Fir (also not in the Botanical sense), and Southern Yellow pine are usually the options in contemporary US building. None of these woods like ground contact, and yet all they get to prep them for ground contact is a soak in some copper salts. After 10-20 years when the salts wash out the sill plate will turn into sponge. [10:40]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 02:27 asciilifeform: afaik ~nuffin built from redwood [10:40]
BingoBoingo: The only reason mod6's sill plate problem is exceptional is someone looked at his sill plate. In USistan most people don't know they have the sill plate problem because they never look. [10:41]
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887550 << You want the kind of expanding anchor that mushrooms into a giant claw on the other side. I don't know what they are called here yet, but in old country "Molly bolt" was the term. [10:47]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 09:21 jurov has some particle board ceilings on otherwise brick house. it's so incredibly shitty material - when bolted small light LED lamps on it, one fell out later :/ [10:47]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's exactly 1 (iron, vs 'winmodem') raid card maker, so it's a 'best horse from glue factory'. has been like this for 20y. [10:48]
asciilifeform: and imho it's annoying. [10:48]
asciilifeform: it's 1 of 9000 items that could use a fire lit under the vendor's arse. [10:49]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: no moar than 16 rk can be comfortably fit in 1u. [10:50]
BingoBoingo: Ah, 36 then [10:50]
asciilifeform: 36 if we bake 3 of'em, correct [10:50]
BingoBoingo: Ah, 32 then [10:51]
asciilifeform: err, 2 [10:51]
asciilifeform: 16 x n . [10:51]
mircea_popescu: who the fuck builds out of pine. [10:51]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: amerisads, who. [10:52]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Pine grows fast and is therefore 'cheap' [10:52]
asciilifeform: phunphakt: bamboo grows wild in washingtonistan. [10:53]
asciilifeform: i'm surprised they dun build from ~that~ yet. [10:53]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo but yes, i guess if you put it out there i have no choice but to spell it out : of ~fucking course~ the carpenter "sticks his file in there". it's a sales gimmick, like the new york electrician pointing out to people they gotta pay him a billion to "bring the buildingto spec" because "otherwise he has to report them" because "otherwise he loses his own license". because we're supposed to not notice the whole mob-e [10:53]
mircea_popescu: ra new york is organized around strong-arming and then charging "for protection" the independent moron, aka hayseed immigrant. [10:53]
mircea_popescu: and yes mod6 is the mark of all time, always ready to pay for such a superficial and self-evident scam. cuz he's a well bred midwestern man whom you can't help but love (notwithstanding the cockroaches can't help but fleece). [10:54]
BingoBoingo: Anyways, once the house gets jacked they are going to find more problems where the water wicked up from the sill plate. [10:55]
mircea_popescu: this reminds me of how gypsy teams "fix cheaply the roof" in the old country. [10:55]
BingoBoingo: And once they drop the house back down with new wood at best it has another 20 years before someone shanks the sill plate again. [10:56]
mircea_popescu: except apparently gypsies don't grow fast enough for the us, notwithstanding they marry the girls once they bleed. so the locals build out of pine and then charge to fix it. [10:56]
asciilifeform: this reminds asciilifeform of that 1 time he went to 'dealership' ( the takata recall, phree new grenad^H^H^Hbags ) . they bring what looks like bill. a : 'waitasec, 10k?! whole bucket not worth 5' monkey:'SUGGESTED repairs' [10:56]
asciilifeform: sent'em to pound sand. 7yr later, bucket -- still runs (only part changed at all -- dynamo) [10:58]
BingoBoingo: If you're replacing the sill plate might as well raise the concrete foundation so the sill sits further from gound level and all of a sudden the concrete cabin out in Cerro start to look like a good alternative. [10:58]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have the converse problem. alternator dies on road, /me takes car back to (otherwise very competent, and very able) independent mechanic who charged 75 an hour for tools and labour to find what needs changing and then install mp's parts (75 CENTS!!!). "why the fuck was not this on the bill ?" "ah, it wasn't really broken yet, still hung on a thread". [10:58]
mircea_popescu: "do not fucking ever do that again." [10:58]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu makes me question the fabled indestructibility of german auto!11 [10:59]
mircea_popescu: you should question the fabled quality of costa rican road. [10:59]
mircea_popescu: human people regularly shit it on contact. [10:59]
asciilifeform: was about to say, mircea_popescu runs'em in martian conditions [10:59]
mircea_popescu: last trip did ~50 mi through gravel road. you even have those back in pinehouse lands ? [11:00]
asciilifeform: not so many in east usa [11:00]
asciilifeform: moar of a sovok thing [11:00]
mircea_popescu: i was really contemplating getting the car jacked on those APC tyres they had back in soviet days. [11:01]
asciilifeform: i used to assume mircea_popescu had a gelandewagen [11:01]
asciilifeform: that, or sumthing with caterpillars [11:01]
mircea_popescu: nah [11:01]
mircea_popescu: http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/romania/wheeled_vehicle/tab-77_pcoma/Tab-77_pcoma_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_artillery_observation_post_Romania_Romanian_army_640.jpg << one of these i should get [11:02]
mircea_popescu: "artillery observation post" my foot, it's jungle adventure vehicle. [11:02]
asciilifeform: loox ideal for the terrain pictured in mircea_popescu's phototours [11:02]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's ~= sov БТР-80 [11:03]
mircea_popescu: you know ? maybe the girls recount sometime that night i nearly drove through a washed out road. [11:03]
* asciilifeform sings, '...Наш начальник, грозный мужевер, Заставляет спать нас в БТР...' [11:03]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. tech transferred for i don't recall what economic deal in the 70s [11:03]
asciilifeform: ( https://archive.is/r3VwB << whole lyrics, for the aficionado, traditional ) [11:04]
mircea_popescu: it's a pretty sweet item, except for one point : its twin engines together less power than bartholomew. [11:05]
mircea_popescu: should be at least 7-8x, considering what "redundancy" means and how heavy the shit is. [11:05]
asciilifeform: sounds like you want a jagdtiger, lol [11:06]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in other lulz : in 80s ro was actually making the btr-80 for east germany export. because russkis found it cheaper to license than to manufacture, and the ro had stolen it already anyway. [11:06]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty typical consider why ro and ddr 'z80' still found in ru fleamarkets [11:07]
mircea_popescu: (your http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-08#1885908 courtly comment, which is factually untrue -- ru 5-6x the headcount, sparked some investigation that turned up a buncha lulz like that. turns out mid 80s soviet was INCREDIBLY weak and complacent, for some fucking reason.) [11:08]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-08 18:06 asciilifeform: ( and for all i know, ro actually involved moar 'turkeydollar', as by mircea_popescu's and other accts was 'tighter ship' ) [11:08]
mircea_popescu: it wasn't ~just~ leadership that gave up, let gorby in. i suspect it was just about everyone capitulating by 1985 [11:09]
asciilifeform: from mid-'80s sovok was just short of dead, from industrial pov [11:09]
mircea_popescu: but it seems a hr sorta death. [11:10]
asciilifeform: well what else kind of death could it've been -- there wasn't a foreign invasion in '80s [11:10]
asciilifeform: so noshit 'hr death' [11:10]
mircea_popescu: machinery. like africa died in the 90s. [11:10]
mircea_popescu: people exactly 100% as african as before -- but capital investment fell off cliff in 80s and never recovered [11:11]
mircea_popescu: by '99 -- http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575489 [11:11]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 13:07 asciilifeform: largely because of the 'don't clean the air filter' tale mircea_popescu told asciilifeform et al on the shore in buenos aires [11:11]
asciilifeform: machines ran for so long as foreign hands were on site to run'em, neh [11:12]
asciilifeform: so in what sense were they african. [11:12]
mircea_popescu: well at least to do the maintenance. [11:12]
asciilifeform: aha [11:12]
mircea_popescu: in the sense of flying their colorful if meaningless flags. [11:12]
asciilifeform: my fave is the 1 with kalash [11:12]
asciilifeform: ( is that still current..? ) [11:12]
mircea_popescu: in what sense was btr russian ? there's only so many ways you can do armored vehicle. [11:12]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the sense that drafted in moscow, built in petrozavodsk or wherever, maintained by ru conscripts under whip [11:13]
mircea_popescu: can you tell this by looking at it ? [11:13]
asciilifeform: i did just this earlier in thread , neh [11:14]
asciilifeform: 'hey that's a btr80!' [11:14]
mircea_popescu: hehe, you did ~the reverse~. you looked at item that looked like the item has to look and went "well, russki is like item does", not "item is like russki does" [11:14]
asciilifeform: there's 'national colour' to certain designs, e.g. the israelis really like flat, squat tanks for some reason [11:15]
asciilifeform: but aside from that yes, knife and fork are same errywhere [11:15]
mircea_popescu: by same token, moon landing is not american, american is moon landing. a moon landing's just like a moon landing is, your lookup table consists of "who did that ?" not of "what'd this doing indicate". without preloaded history, you wouldn't know. [11:15]
mircea_popescu: replace sputnik for moon landing, same result. [11:16]
asciilifeform: ok in that sense yea [11:16]
mircea_popescu: "same reason" being that desert. [11:16]
mircea_popescu: some* [11:16]
asciilifeform: funnily enuff i still think of tank (in 'platonic' sense) as a vaguely germanic item, despite being brit invention and sov 'killer app' [11:17]
mircea_popescu: do you know why ? [11:17]
asciilifeform: !#s tigerfibel [11:17]
a111: 10 results for "tigerfibel", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tigerfibel [11:17]
asciilifeform: ^ prolly why [11:17]
mircea_popescu: i have an alternate theory, but im not sure you wanna hear it. [11:17]
asciilifeform: let's [11:17]
mircea_popescu: germans did to platonic tank the wrong thing that you like doing. [11:17]
asciilifeform: gilding the lily ? [11:18]
asciilifeform: this is actually the traditional narrative re 'tiger' [11:18]
mircea_popescu: they made it too big, overengineered, "what if i was the last man and this was the last tank" otherwordly consideration. [11:18]
asciilifeform: right, it's famous cautionary tale for engineer. [11:18]
mircea_popescu: russkis just went "how about if that abandoned tachanka people take cover to shoot from behind was motorized" [11:18]
asciilifeform: there's a second half to that parable tho. which is that german tank/mg/various were not only expensive, but complex. [11:20]
mircea_popescu: of course, in fairness, there's some hidden lulz in there : turns out tank ~seems~ perfect assault weapon, but ~in fact~ is perfect infantry support weapon. which is why t-34 won over both kv and tiger and why the best use of tanks came from north africa, where there being no "armored positions to storm", tanks could be used correctly (if uncomprehendingly) by the germans too. [11:20]
asciilifeform: ( with mechanical object these tend to coincide ) [11:20]
mircea_popescu: i said "overengineered" specifically. [11:21]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff the lesson was obvious to... hannibal ( who had 'meat tank' ) [11:21]
mircea_popescu: turns out the correct cut lay so close to "don't bother", russki not-even-replaceable-parts accidental constructs were closer than the finely zeiss'd german items [11:21]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so it was! [11:21]
asciilifeform: in all fairness 34 had perfectly-replaceable parts. [11:21]
mircea_popescu: by 1945. [11:22]
asciilifeform: so much so that in the ukr wars a couple were taken down from monuments, and made to run. [11:22]
asciilifeform: 44. [11:22]
mircea_popescu: yeah well. [11:22]
asciilifeform: interestingly from the light of the 'tiger is a bolix' narrative, it was a quite close match despite the overengineer. [11:26]
asciilifeform: 1 tiger is said to have been match for 2-3 34. problem for germans is that they brought 5,6 per. [11:27]
asciilifeform: ( and, recall, the match ended when germany ran out of petrol, rather than tank ) [11:27]
asciilifeform: the especially lulzy aspect of the finale, is that germans themselves invented the faustpatrone , the very same item that makes tank such a limited worth item today [11:30]
mircea_popescu: this then illustrates a principal line that constructs my http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881924 to go with other main http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-20#1882318 and i think theres maybe 2 or 3 more and that's it. [11:30]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:31 mircea_popescu: phf i expect the accumulated value of the whole pile of "secrets" is about 0. and i further expect the entire value of the whole bolix stack neatly approximates the value of my stock of pogos. [11:30]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-20 00:44 mircea_popescu: ~if~ those people were smart enough to build the item you describe, the ~reasonable expectation~ is they'd have been smart enough to behave ~muchly variant~ from the ~actual way they behaved~ in fields much easier to observe. [11:30]
asciilifeform: to this i'll say, germany -- lost war but i still like my 'zeiss' binocular etc. [11:30]
asciilifeform: ( and mircea_popescu , seems to like his bmw ) [11:31]
mircea_popescu: in any case, the problem in terms of "1 tiger is said to have been match for 2-3 t-34" is already misstated. the point is : marginal war gain per german soldier from tiger was like .1, marginal war gain per soviet soldier from t-34 was like 6.5 [11:31]
mircea_popescu: THIS is what matters. the per capita productivity gain from capital investment. [11:31]
mircea_popescu: not "whose machine is spiffier". [11:31]
asciilifeform: the q of 'which machine spiffier' aint even meaningful outside of this frame [11:31]
asciilifeform: gotta count the losses as well as the gains tho. [11:32]
asciilifeform: in re the computational spaceheater wars -- the loss tally from 'overflowable arrays' is still a-runnin'. [11:32]
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, because the t-34 cost 18 units and provided 6.5 to 30 or so sovheads while tiger cost 77 units and provided .1 to 24 naziheads, we can resolve the matter : 18 for 195 vs 77 for 2.4 [11:32]
mircea_popescu: no WONDER they couldn't make the shit fast enough. [11:32]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform war is specifically this arrangement where you don't count the losses. who's gonna fine the victor for his more expensive tanks in terms of "wildlife-variety" ? [11:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ought not to neglect the (explicit) driver of sov-style tech design : 'Солдат не жалеть, бабы еще нарожают!' (tm)(r) [11:33]
mircea_popescu: this is why people like engineering for war, too. it's a whole of a lot more fun to make a tank than a water boiler. [11:34]
asciilifeform: ( attributed to zhukov ) [11:34]
mircea_popescu: right ? [11:34]
asciilifeform: to take the extreme end of the stick : the best antitank weapon of whole war, was... japan's [11:36]
mircea_popescu: specific example of why i say war is fun -- not only losses don't count, but their replenishment consists of fucking a buncha women, whether they want to or not. [11:36]
asciilifeform: 3 metre bamboo stick, with mine, contact detonator. [11:36]
mircea_popescu: not so clear why best, killed operator half the time [11:37]
asciilifeform: cuz бабы еще нарожают eh [11:37]
asciilifeform: ~100% time [11:37]
asciilifeform: best from pov of enemy materiel : own materiel cost ratio. [11:37]
mircea_popescu: unbest for japan, they had very much sparta problem -- dead japanese not replaceable through usual process [11:37]
mircea_popescu: even moreso than dead german. [11:37]
mircea_popescu: the winner of cockroach war was... cockroach union. [11:38]
asciilifeform: this problem ended up nailing ~everyone~ [11:38]
mircea_popescu: except for the soviets, the chinese... [11:38]
asciilifeform: them also. [11:38]
asciilifeform: only writhed longer. [11:38]
mircea_popescu: in the end, the result of war is a perverse "cheapest man wins". [11:38]
asciilifeform: correct. and the opera replayed itself in miniature in the 'killermicro warz' [11:39]
BingoBoingo: In things that popped up in the spam hoppers: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/pSMtK/?raw=true [11:39]
mircea_popescu: perhaps intuitively this is very much related (in the sense of descending from) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880251 [11:40]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-12 18:21 mircea_popescu: aanyway. labour allocation is broken and nobody has any better. [11:40]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc mircea_popescu posted the perl script that shits these at one pt [11:40]
mircea_popescu: "law firms", lawds have mercy. [11:40]
BingoBoingo: Still, first LAW alt I've seen [11:40]
mircea_popescu: what's the idea, nobody ever fucked an ambitious intern, can't imagine what "law firms" are like ? [11:41]
BingoBoingo: Likely [11:42]
BingoBoingo: IIrc the lawyering profession in the US isn't employing law school graduates anymore because what's the point of having ambitious interns if they are afraid to fuck them [11:43]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: last i knew , most of said graduates nowadays , get to take their arse, and its 250k of debt, to work in bureaucracy. [11:43]
asciilifeform: where they start at the 50k/y (pre-tax!) rank. [11:44]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah, those are just the LUCKY ones. [11:44]
BingoBoingo: From what I've seen Law schools produce a lot of substitute teachers nowadays [11:45]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i have a distant relative, who 'ivy league'(tm)(r) 'perfect grade' etc etc and ended up as n-th lieutenant prosecutor in some arsehole, prosecuting 'dindus' [11:45]
asciilifeform: typical, as i understand, path, for these people. [11:45]
asciilifeform: iirc the 'law schools' were actually sued, for making concrete claims of employability of graduate, and ~lost~, but somehow this was magicked away. [11:46]
BingoBoingo: I know few lawschool graduates working for firm. A bunch working for local prosecutor or public defender, occasional ventures into private practice. THe one who got a "firm" job left it to do a stint managing East Saint Louis City government. [11:47]
hanbot: <asciilifeform> i'm surprised they dun build from ~that~ yet. << i met a chick from the architecture dept at the nat'l uni here whose professed goal was to see all places with native bamboo build with it exclusively. possibly the spiders get her first, but otherwise, "coming soon"... [11:48]
asciilifeform: hanbot: washingtonistan very muchly belongs having vietnam-style dwellings, on bamboo stilts. [11:48]
asciilifeform: i hope -- succeeds. [11:48]
asciilifeform: at one time asciilifeform lived in a block of flat surrounded by bamboo, and would see the shoots erry morning, growing straight from gravel. invariably thought of that old chinese punishment [11:49]
BingoBoingo: Well swamp. Stilts/Pilings for light structures is all that should be in a swamp [11:49]
asciilifeform: y'know, where you pin the lucky customer to four stakes, and by next day bamboo grows out of him [11:50]
hanbot: oh hey i missed that one. yet another reason for pet koala. [11:51]
asciilifeform: panda, i presume [11:51]
hanbot: possibly even your raccoons would eat it [11:51]
asciilifeform: these will eat moar or less anyffin. even drywall. [11:52]
asciilifeform: the ultimate mouth. [11:52]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Might as well get some goats and take control of your local Cheesechain [11:53]
asciilifeform: recently i found that 1 of the trapped ones chewed most of the way through wooden '2x4' plank. [11:53]
asciilifeform: ( this in re : also mod6's woods! thread ) [11:53]
hanbot: pity these can't be trained [11:53]
asciilifeform: hanbot: supposedly they can. i wouldn't undertake tho [11:54]
asciilifeform: some 19th c american circus man even trained grizzly. [11:54]
asciilifeform: ( not barnum, was some d00d since forgotten ) [11:54]
asciilifeform: unrelatedly ( or maybe not?? ) , asciilifeform found that ch16 is turning into just about a miniature number theory schoolbook, will defo have to be trimmed [11:59]
asciilifeform: ( went in that dir on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886905 ) [11:59]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 18:36 asciilifeform: ( readers should also prepare themselves for following proof of why m-r worx, i'ma not simply cite the lit ) [11:59]
BingoBoingo: The fur apparently has some marketable value, but like other things in empire... there is a mess of rules [11:59]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: sell enuff furs in ameristan, and some Official derp will appear and demand to know where you took'em.. [12:00]
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887580 "A man can sit in a bamboo house under a bamboo roof, on a bamboo chair at a bamboo table ...." [12:00]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 15:53 asciilifeform: i'm surprised they dun build from ~that~ yet. [12:00]
asciilifeform: shinohai: recall how edison was genuinely convinced that the fyootoor of furniture was... ferrocement [12:01]
asciilifeform: lost good % of his moneys in this, in his last yrs [12:01]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Right. They'll also wank over what kinds of traps. Gotta deal with USG and local conservation police... Gotta plan your havest anticipating how many of what kinds of critters are going to find their way into your traps [12:02]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: racoon trap interestingly is ~100% species-selective [12:02]
asciilifeform: requires opposable thumb to set off. [12:02]
shinohai: Edison would be proud that one can print 3-D house using cement, with furniture built into walls. [12:02]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> shinohai: recall how edison was genuinely convinced that the fyootoor of furniture was... ferrocement << Plenty of people here living the complete ferrocement like without the roof. [12:02]
asciilifeform: shinohai: iirc they already build this : for 'supermax' prison. but i expect the tech will 'spread to konsoomer', yes [12:04]
BingoBoingo: The US isn't Uruguay. The US can't afford to make ferrocement the residential building material. How will the police break in? [12:06]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: presumably with those demolition charges they already issue'em.. [12:07]
asciilifeform: i expect it'll work in the 'self driving car'(tm) direction instead. 'drm' door locks itself, house now == jail [12:07]
asciilifeform: police pick up at leisure, when occupant is half-dead from hunger/thirst [12:07]
BingoBoingo: There's still the problem of making all that ferrocement [12:08]
shinohai: Coming soon to a ghetto near you: http://archive.is/I07K6 [12:08]
asciilifeform: eh cement is the 1 kind of factory they still have errywhere in usa [12:08]
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/01/amid-partial-shutdown-usg-certifies-security-of-microsoft-outlook-mobile/ << Qntra -- Amid Partial Shutdown USG Certifies "Security" Of Microsoft Outlook Mobile [12:08]
asciilifeform: shinohai: i see empty pg [12:08]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure, but cement factory pumps out evil carbon [12:09]
shinohai: gah, was supposed to be archive of https://singularityhub.com/2018/03/18/this-3d-printed-house-goes-up-in-a-day-for-under-10000/\ [12:09]
asciilifeform: shinohai: the typical wooden hovel folx live inside in usa, costs maybe 1000 in cardboard/presswood. sheep still get sheared via http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887539 . [12:11]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 02:36 asciilifeform: it's hilarious, the hovel i'm in, at least has steel frames. nearby they recently built whole street of 100% cardboard/plastic , 'ONLY low 800s!' reads the billboard. 800k orcbux, that is. [12:11]
asciilifeform: the '800s' have 0 to do with the cost of the junk they build from. [12:11]
BingoBoingo: They've got fast food housing here too https://casa.mercadolibre.com.uy/MLU-459410839-isomodulos-uruguay-todo-en-isopanel-al-mejor-precio-_JM [12:12]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887720 << this is so. [12:12]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 16:43 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: last i knew , most of said graduates nowadays , get to take their arse, and its 250k of debt, to work in bureaucracy. [12:12]
shinohai: I live in comfy brick home built in 1950's or so. Feels many times more solid than average McMansion [12:12]
asciilifeform: shinohai: i fully expect that they ~will~ find how to make the hovels even moar starvation-cheap, whether cement or inkjetted styrofoam or whatnot. and the same folx who pocket 800k nao, will pocket the 1mil they'll mandatorily sell for. [12:13]
asciilifeform: shinohai: there's maybe half a mil of these on whole continent, and nobody's building any moar of'em [12:14]
asciilifeform: 'It Would Be Wrong' or sumthing. [12:14]
shinohai: There was "subdivision" of new constructed homes nearby that had to be abandoned ~3 yrs ago, all were built using sheetrock from China which molded within weeks of being installed. [12:15]
asciilifeform: betcha the 'lucky' buyers still owe their 800k. [12:15]
mircea_popescu: as they fucking should. [12:15]
mircea_popescu: there's no possibility of economic activity outside of human buyer judging things [12:16]
mircea_popescu: if they abdicate from this, and "just want to", they belong rowing galley. [12:16]
asciilifeform: the judging does exactly 0, 'lemon market'. [12:16]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> shinohai: there's maybe half a mil of these on whole continent, and nobody's building any moar of'em << My hometown has large swaths of brick single family homes built to house workers for now defunct "my pet goat" condensed milk plant. [12:19]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform huh ? [12:20]
asciilifeform: i suppose it's still possible, even in usa, to buy lands far away from city, getting out of 'zoning law', and import white marble from italy and build castle. if yer rockefeller. i dun know rockefeller tho, so i've never set foot in 1 of these and have nfi re what specifically is involved. [12:20]
asciilifeform: errybody else lives in cardboard. [12:20]
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had an ancient ro piece about this [12:21]
mircea_popescu: riiight, cuz "organizing labour" in the sense of http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-you-become-grain/ is perfectly possible but organizing purchasing in the sense of killing the fucking degradation of life and every niggled standing in the way is perfectly impossible. [12:21]
mircea_popescu: because so spake the goddess or some dumb shit. [12:21]
asciilifeform: notably, buffett lives in cardboard. [12:21]
shinohai: I bought specifically because was brick and has actual hardwood floors, none of that composite/laminate shit. [12:21]
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't believe a single thing pr claims about buffett, seeing how that's the customary treatment for proven liars. [12:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i haven't been to his house, lol, so cannot attest to the troof/disinfo. [12:22]
asciilifeform: but d00d brags about it. ( or did, last i tuned in ) [12:22]
mircea_popescu: he lives in usg-style hruscheba much like beria did. [12:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i.e. preserved item from pre-war ? [12:23]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887728 << one of the http://trilema.com/2016/pili/#selection-87.0-87.345 pilis i guess ? [12:25]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 16:48 hanbot: <asciilifeform> i'm surprised they dun build from ~that~ yet. << i met a chick from the architecture dept at the nat'l uni here whose professed goal was to see all places with native bamboo build with it exclusively. possibly the spiders get her first, but otherwise, "coming soon"... [12:25]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know what celebrity endorsements are ? "eat your gruel, tommy, just like Nigglet McAthlete does!" [12:26]
asciilifeform: 'buy kasparov-brand chess knife!!' [12:26]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a point tho! i nearly forgot that buffett ~sells~ cardboard hovels. [12:27]
asciilifeform: naturally will claim to inhabit one. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: heh. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: dat kasparov brand chess knife thing is epic. ima use it. [12:27]
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/phantastes-para-leer/ << Trilema -- Phantastes. Para leer. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887746 << not necessarily. try and find such schoolbook online. [12:28]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 16:59 asciilifeform: unrelatedly ( or maybe not?? ) , asciilifeform found that ch16 is turning into just about a miniature number theory schoolbook, will defo have to be trimmed [12:28]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ru-speaking folk have 0 prob finding whole sovok curriculum on www.. [12:29]
asciilifeform: re english folx, slightly harder ( but only slightly ) [12:29]
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Typical condensed milk plant era construction in hometown https://archive.is/YiMUX https://archive.is/HjtFv [12:29]
asciilifeform: i'ma leave the item in, tho, if mircea_popescu thinks it's a + idea [12:29]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: we have these here typically the brickwork is decorative [12:30]
asciilifeform: observe that it is very easy to tell with naked eye [12:30]
asciilifeform: ... actual brickwork has butt-end bricks [12:30]
asciilifeform: decorative -- only side-laid [12:30]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887760 << what is small prison if not staging area for big prison. [12:31]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 17:04 asciilifeform: shinohai: iirc they already build this : for 'supermax' prison. but i expect the tech will 'spread to konsoomer', yes [12:31]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, german peasant cargo cults [12:31]
asciilifeform: i've confronted various (nominally literate) ameri-folx with the brick litmus, was surprised at one pt how many had nfi [12:31]
shinohai: it appears homes were slightly better constructed there BingoBoingo ... most "factory worker houses" in smaller towns here are old duplexes, with asbestos siding no less. [12:32]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887824 << yet you persist believing such a thing as a schoolbook is available to them. [12:34]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 17:31 asciilifeform: i've confronted various (nominally literate) ameri-folx with the brick litmus, was surprised at one pt how many had nfi [12:34]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly my model of 'available' is off. [12:35]
trinque: asciilifeform: was hilarious when harvey came through and ripped these brick facades off the suburban wasp nests [12:35]
asciilifeform: trinque: they scatter like pinyata. [12:36]
asciilifeform: with the brickwork forming bonus shrapnel. [12:36]
trinque: I take these to be the people that shouldn't have houses having been given too much, not *their* decay. they're doing better than they've ever been. [12:40]
trinque: plenty of rich as hell folks in houston living in concrete and steel, like sensible people do in hurricane zones [12:40]
asciilifeform: trinque: there's rich folx living in old rocket shafts in nebraska even. [12:41]
asciilifeform: again i haven't met in person. [12:41]
asciilifeform: most of usa -- cardboard. [12:41]
asciilifeform: ( quite unlike, e.g. uruguay ) [12:41]
asciilifeform: at one time it was possible to buy title to old rocket shaft for approx what cardboard house costs. [12:42]
asciilifeform: ( substantial, as i understand, 'diy project', to make it livable. but some people -- did ) [12:42]
trinque: I wager the uruguayan suburbs are favela-tier [12:43]
trinque: where the american burbs oughta be. [12:43]
asciilifeform: trinque: tbf i did not go to the favela. but inside the city walls, the worst dwellings were approx baltimore-type. [12:44]
asciilifeform: i.e. old brick. [12:44]
BingoBoingo: <trinque> I wager the uruguayan suburbs are favela-tier << Favelas with a lot of concrete [12:45]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that's called... hruscheba [12:45]
asciilifeform: ( orig word was a play on трущоба ( slu [12:46]
asciilifeform: m, favela ) [12:46]
asciilifeform: + hruschev. [12:46]
asciilifeform: under whose decree a great many were hastily built [12:47]
asciilifeform: in ro the shoemaker did similar thing, mircea_popescu described in detail [12:47]
BingoBoingo: Some samples from Las Piedras http://archive.is/8YA93 http://archive.is/AHfAN [12:48]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: observe how even to the poorest orcs, it dun occur to build dwelling from cardboards [12:49]
asciilifeform: they find, somehow , cement mixer, somewhere. [12:49]
trinque: if they had it, would buy. same reason as when I was in CR there was a huge line of natives for the mcd's and starbucks [12:51]
trinque: if they had more money, that mcds would sprout a whole suburb of them around it. [12:51]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: may recall, at one time asciilifeform was infected with crackpot idea, 'why not buy old stone thing in bmore'. actually went on site, talked to the orcs. concluded that proj was massively -ev, couldnt afford to defend properly. [12:51]
trinque: I hear hipsters are doing this in detroit these days, not even all getting killed by the natives [12:52]
asciilifeform: trinque: i was in BingoBoingostan when a 'starbux' opened its first day of biz. queue was iirc kilometre [12:52]
BingoBoingo: trinque: Here the culture views McDonalds as classy. [12:52]
asciilifeform: trinque: they're living in cardboard, iirc. new construction in specially-designated reservations. [12:52]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Starbucks is not classy anymore. It is the low rent knockoff version of McCafe now [12:53]
trinque: right, so economics alone are keeping them from the wasp nest neighborhoods, which is my point. [12:53]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> trinque: they're living in cardboard, iirc. new construction in specially-designated reservations. << AHA, Carrasco where the stores have parking lots! Just like US suburbs! [12:53]
asciilifeform: trinque: the 'next turn of the screw' appears to be... american ver. of sovok 'communal flats'. they're building'em here, near university, to the exclusion of near errything else [12:55]
asciilifeform: 4-5 rooms share kitchen/toilet/hall, same as in ye olde communist world [12:56]
asciilifeform: euphemistically labeled 'student' flats [12:56]
BingoBoingo: AHA, like the Peruana's pension tucked behind a kiosko! [12:56]
asciilifeform: but good % of the folx signing the leases, are graduates [12:56]
asciilifeform: interestingly, they're building a tram (!) also. apparently the last lizards who disassembled the original washintonistani trams in 1970s, have finally croaked. ( new tram, however, will go strictly to/from the communal flats and the bureaucratic shitholes where 'employed' ) [12:58]
BingoBoingo: More bottom of the market favela finds http://archive.is/T2QsT http://archive.is/npB22 From here the next step down includes improvised shelters, refrigerator boxes, and actual holes in exterior walls. [12:58]
asciilifeform: lol 30 m^2 [12:59]
asciilifeform: like jail [12:59]
asciilifeform: guten tag, Mocky [13:00]
trinque: in related cardboardization, the girl and I were looking into live vaccines for hypothetical spawn. apparently they're being phased out by the derps that be. [13:00]
Mocky: howdy asciilifeform [13:01]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> lol 30 m^2 << Smaller [13:02]
asciilifeform: trinque: iirc in usa you get to pick b/w 'vaccine is the devil's work' and 'load'im up on errything, incl. some radwaste for good measure' [13:02]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes prolly has the details. [13:02]
asciilifeform: Mocky: how did the work search go ? [13:02]
Mocky: instead of an offer for this one prospect I got "one more interview, next week" but still imo looks probable [13:03]
asciilifeform: trinque: even in BingoBoingostan , asciilifeform had a hell of a time drinking from 'the mumps cup' to the terrified faces of onlookers [13:03]
BingoBoingo: The standard for a pension or residencia estudiantil is 1.5-5 bed lengths deep and 3-5 bed widths wide. But unlike apartments they tend to come furnished. With "placares" even. [13:04]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo recall this ? in that coffee room. [13:04]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: AHA [13:04]
BingoBoingo: The mumps outbreak of similar character to US University mumps outbreaks. [13:05]
BingoBoingo: Here we have an elusive creature. A property offered for rent with hope the person renting it will subdivide it into smaller rentals: http://archive.is/GAXEp [13:09]
asciilifeform: ... is it also 'hoped' that he'll 'rent out the space in his nostrils' lol [13:10]
trinque: man I hate people that let materials accumulate like that. oh, that's my palette collection, and here's a single tile, just in case [13:11]
BingoBoingo: trinque: Much of that was likely accumulated intentionally via dumpster mining [13:13]
BingoBoingo: This is informative http://trilema.com/2014/colonia-uruguay/#selection-228.1-233.82 [13:15]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887832 << there's some meat on this skeleton, recall chucka burning down sovok wood flooring to make cookpot go [13:20]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 17:40 trinque: I take these to be the people that shouldn't have houses having been given too much, not *their* decay. they're doing better than they've ever been. [13:20]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887855 << occured already, the heredia-alajuela banzone is entirely this. [13:22]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 17:51 trinque: if they had more money, that mcds would sprout a whole suburb of them around it. [13:22]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887861 << hysterically enough, mcd actually trying to position itself "upmarket", yes. [13:23]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 17:53 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Starbucks is not classy anymore. It is the low rent knockoff version of McCafe now [13:23]
trinque: saw the mcd's and "aw fuck, it's got spores" [13:23]
mircea_popescu: heh [13:25]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887877 << this is very much the case muchly reminiscent re your point of "why can't i buy just the sanity of vegan" or somesuch. [13:26]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 18:02 asciilifeform: trinque: iirc in usa you get to pick b/w 'vaccine is the devil's work' and 'load'im up on errything, incl. some radwaste for good measure' [13:26]
mircea_popescu: "organic" maybe it was. [13:26]
mircea_popescu: the empire of idiots manages to construct two ~equally idiotic non-alternatives out of everything. [13:26]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: In Uruguay it *is* upmarket [13:27]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-15#1406177 << possibly thread [13:28]
a111: Logged on 2016-02-15 17:58 asciilifeform: specifically how there is no place in usa where one can 'i will pay double for non-monsanto but i don't give a fuck about 'gmo' and i sure as fuck don't want to see homeopathic crud in the shop' [13:28]
asciilifeform: + http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-03#1260587 [13:29]
a111: Logged on 2015-09-03 01:38 asciilifeform: e.g. there is no 'i don't care if the chicken ate gmo corn but please no antibiotic' shop [13:29]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall, it's the magick land of 'which can of pepsi wouldja like, left or right' [13:31]
asciilifeform: there's ~2 ~indistinguishable 'alternatives' to errything. [13:32]
asciilifeform: conveniently painted in diff colours. [13:32]
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/01/former-mexican-president-enrique-pena-nieto-accused-of-taking-250-million-usd-bribe-by-usg-witness-as-guzman-trial-continues/ << Qntra -- Former Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto Accused Of Taking 250 Million USD Bribe By USG Witness As Guzman Trial Continues [13:40]
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-lulz-in-dating/#footnote_0_63520 << was upmarket briefly in ro of 1990s also [13:41]
mircea_popescu: heh, usg basically cannibalizing its foreign service. not being able to defend allies is one thing, but who the fuck is ever going to deal with them again. [13:43]
asciilifeform: hey last i recall e.g. karzai's $100m monthly 'hercules' crate was openly aired , d00d still on throne [13:44]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in entomology dept, https://archive.is/OupVT [13:50]
asciilifeform: ( and yep it's the defrocked physics d00d from old thread ) [13:51]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm thinking to switch off the raid auto-walk ( http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887553 ) currently, and set it going manually during a maintenance window that we'll announce after folx are seated on the rk. [13:56]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 14:07 asciilifeform: incidentally : raid verify is set for midnight saturday. which iirc was the time of the first reset. [13:56]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aite [13:58]
asciilifeform: speaking of which, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887330 ! uy1 folx, that means you ! [13:58]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-15 20:08 asciilifeform: ( invited to pgp ssh key + any particular reqs to BingoBoingo & asciilifeform ) [13:58]
asciilifeform: plox to request accts. [13:58]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ftr, the samsung ssds are pretty good : i have identical card here, with identical drives, in 3.5yrs of 24/7 operation it corrected a misparitied block ~once~ [13:59]
asciilifeform: ( it walks erry friday ) [13:59]
asciilifeform: ( back when it had mechanical platters, this was a ~monthly occurrence ) [14:00]
mircea_popescu: come to think about it, locklin fits very well in the impudent imbecile gallery, with yarvin, yukowsky and whatall else, 70s to 90s born fleshwastes. [14:01]
BingoBoingo: Well, Locklin's only had 5 going on 6 years to surrender and yet... [14:03]
mircea_popescu: surrender ~what~ ? [14:05]
mircea_popescu: you understand this, yes, there's gotta be something there to surrender, you can't surrender bare swamp. [14:05]
BingoBoingo: Surrender his determination to imbicil and join a slave galley [14:06]
mircea_popescu: where he'd be doing exactly the same, plus/minus one red stapler ? [14:06]
mircea_popescu: seems rather the work of coincidence. [14:06]
BingoBoingo: Depends where he galleys? He could get aquainted with ball gag lip chafing [14:07]
mircea_popescu: yeah, there's such demand for middle aged males on that market. [14:07]
BingoBoingo: If he's pale enough the Saudis or Qataris might take him [14:11]
asciilifeform: d00d's a defrocked academic, iirc toils in 'hedge funds' etc [14:12]
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local news: Free Bicycles available on the Rambla as a matter of Penal Policy http://archive.is/o6y2V [14:13]
mircea_popescu: "This last paranthesis also explains why crime fightin' is never a "the people" affair, in case you're curious. It's not some sort of evil conspiracy to keep "the citizens" ("the people" call themselves that when unsure of their footing) from exercising "justice". It's just that practically, left to their own devices, "the people" couldn't care less." or how did that go. [14:24]
BingoBoingo: Pretty much. They just don't care. [14:29]
BingoBoingo: They want homeostatsis [14:30]
BingoBoingo: They preferred 2009's homeostasis to 2019's but... [14:30]
mircea_popescu: kings/march lords hanging people for poaching venison is so unfair, anyway. [14:33]
BingoBoingo: Hey, the amount of old woman wailing over their pobre angelitos dying is increasing as the angelitos in question get shot breaking into a man's residence/place of business [14:38]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it aint as if there were no highwaymen back when marchlord [14:44]
asciilifeform: ( and funnily enuff, uptick in petty criminality during imperial collapse appears even in apuleius's thing ) [14:45]
mircea_popescu: sure. what, the point was to ensure "no highwaymen" ? the point was to ensure ~no highwaywomen~. and that -- fucking ensured, no taming-of-the-shrew era shrew, howsoever "empowered" etcetera, dared highway. [14:53]
asciilifeform: iirc there may have been sea pirate female, but dunno how credible the reports. [14:55]
mircea_popescu: indeed. i believe, factual. [14:56]
mircea_popescu: vapor pressure, rite. if you hang for piracy as well as highway robbery (1/100 the capital goods costs) competent females will be found in piracy not in highway robbery, because female vapor pressure ~0. [14:57]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in reverse dirty-old-man-isms, i just bid nude girly dress and go buy me cookies. [15:20]
mircea_popescu: as opposed to my buying cookies to give girly so she takes her clothes off. [15:21]
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ryJiN/?raw=true << limonov's ditty re fem pirate [15:25]
mircea_popescu: лугах Ийоркшира keks [15:29]
mircea_popescu: shinohai you don't belong to what now ? [19:14]
shinohai: hmm ? [19:18]
shinohai: I was afk, not sure what mircea_popescu means. [19:32]
mircea_popescu: * shinohai has quit (Quit: No, I do not belong to The Most Delusional Republic) [19:51]
shinohai: lmao forgot I had put that there when kakobrekla kept asking why I wasn't over in tmdr xD [19:57]
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/01/perambulating-mp-pretense-vs-pretense/ << The Whet -- Perambulating MP: Pretense vs. Pretense [20:27]
mod6: Another loooong day today. [20:40]
* mod6 reads up [20:40]
hanbot: * shinohai has quit (Quit: No, I do not belong to The Most Delusional Republic) << the amusing part being that it'd seem that's the only republic you -do- belong to. [20:42]
mircea_popescu: ouch. [20:48]
shinohai: heh [20:49]
asciilifeform: meanwhile uy1 cpu at 52C, raid card at 63 (for the latter, 'critical' mark is 70) [21:18]
asciilifeform: still waitin' to hear from the znc-on-uy1 people, whether any want a rk acct. [21:19]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty for the temp update [21:20]
mod6: Thanks for the update asciilifeform [21:20]
mod6: Super weird. [21:20]
asciilifeform: mod6: sadly not weird, these run ridiculously hot [21:21]
asciilifeform: i have one that avgs 80C here [21:21]
asciilifeform: ( no eggogs tho, from it... ) [21:21]
asciilifeform: i can't picture why, even, unless these people baked it from ecl or sumthing [21:22]
mod6: no, i mean, what's super weird is that it hasn't crashed since we started really looking into it. [21:22]
asciilifeform: mod6: my current hypothesis is that it'll fall down again when raid walk. [21:22]
mod6: kinda typical actually. car makes bad sound while driving it for weeks, when you bring it to the mechanic and explain the sound, he drives it, no sound. [21:23]
asciilifeform: i'ma 'drive' it till it 'makes sound'. [21:23]
mod6: :] *thumbsup* [21:23]
asciilifeform: would like to , 1st, give the znc people a chance to sit down on rk, if they can be aroused to. [21:24]
mod6: sure. [21:26]
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