Forum logs for 16 Feb 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
shinohai: gm trilema [08:46]
BingoBoingo: Mornin' shinohai [08:56]
shinohai: Buenas dias BingoBoingo .... Qntra incoming in about an hour. [08:57]
BingoBoingo: Bueno, gracias. [08:57]
shinohai: BingoBoingo: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/EtRw3/?raw=true [09:19]
shinohai: Plox feel free to edit as I have not advanced beyond first cup of coffee yet. [09:20]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/02/coinbase-fiat-side-glitch-opens-butts-for-hurts/ << Qntra - CoinBase Fiat Side Glitch Opens Butts For Hurts [09:26]
mod6: mornin' TSMR~ [09:51]
shinohai: Heya mod6 how goes? [10:08]
mod6: Oh not too bad. How about you? [10:08]
shinohai: Pretty good here, gonna do an offline V test in a bit once I get a few more things squared away. [10:09]
mod6: Hey, cool! Let me know how it goes/have Q's. [10:13]
mod6: asciilifeform: I did check if that the perf test was still running -- it was this am. I think it should finish sometime today. [13:37]
asciilifeform: mod6: neat [13:37]
ben_vulpes: and in maxint schadenfreude: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/02/can-uber-ever-deliver-part-thirteen-even-4q-cost-cuts-uber-lost-4-5-billion-2017.html [13:46]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/02/former-fbi-director-prepares-constitutional-crisis-in-united-states-with-indictments/ << Qntra - Former FBI Director Prepares Constitutional Crisis In United States With Indictments [14:39]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/mr-dilworthy-falls-in-some-bad-company/ << Trilema - Mr. Dilworthy falls in some bad company. [17:32]
mod6: evenin' [21:10]
ben_vulpes: heya mod6 [21:12]
mod6: how goes! [21:18]
* mod6 is working on wrapping up all the things for V 99993 [21:18]
mod6: asciilifeform: ok it's done! http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HUSEX/?raw=true [22:00]
* mod6 also lulz @ HUSEX [22:00]
shinohai: hue [22:01]
mircea_popescu: why hello #trilema! [22:10]
shinohai: o hai mircea_popescu ! [22:10]
mircea_popescu: how goes ? [22:11]
shinohai: Buenas noches y feliz Viernes [22:11]
shinohai: Good here, and you? [22:11]
mircea_popescu: not bad! [22:11]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman "took me twice as long" ? [22:18]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo www.qntra.net 404s, should prolly just redirect. [22:21]
mod6: mircea_popescu! [22:22]
mircea_popescu: hm ? [22:22]
mod6: just sayin 'hi [22:23]
mircea_popescu: hola [22:24]
mircea_popescu: hm mod6 did i miss a payment or what happened here ? [22:26]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: nah, let me take care of that. 0.8 it was? [22:28]
mircea_popescu: yea [22:29]
ben_vulpes: !!pay mircea_popescu 0.8 [22:29]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/riedu/?raw=true [22:29]
mircea_popescu: dun dun dun! [22:29]
mircea_popescu: so BingoBoingo finally got his bank acct huh ! [22:30]
ben_vulpes: !!v FE62C1A6B3D703CEB2F058D90938A452801E95F7DCBC03825D763D80E3F7C9DA [22:30]
deedbot: ben_vulpes paid mircea_popescu 0.8 [22:30]
mircea_popescu: ty ben_vulpes [22:30]
ben_vulpes: aha ty [22:31]
* ben_vulpes bbl, $child has announced bedtime by angrily tearing apart a couch to build a fort [22:31]
shinohai: The plot thickens on Conbase drama: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWNCbmsWsAAtvXE.jpg [22:35]
shinohai: "We were TOTALLY not responsible at all, keep sending us monies." [22:35]
mod6: thanks ben_vulpes [22:40]
ben_vulpes: !!pay mod6 0.36578854 [22:59]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IaMFY/?raw=true [22:59]
ben_vulpes: !!v EC08ABA86FC893FD5A6FCC6FB66965D075BC3B7B00C8BBE155266D7DF4D34286 [23:00]
deedbot: ben_vulpes paid mod6 0.36578854 [23:00]
mod6: tyvm! [23:00]
ben_vulpes: mmmmhm [23:01]
mod6: this deedbot payment system is slick asf [23:03]
mircea_popescu: word [23:04]
asciilifeform: oh hey it's mircea_popescu [23:12]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784178 << this is veeeery interesting and i'd like to know what iron [23:13]
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 03:00 mod6: asciilifeform: ok it's done! http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HUSEX/?raw=true [23:13]
asciilifeform: mod6: and it would stand to be repeated with the files swapped ( to remove effect of, e.g., just where the given sample lives on disk physically ) [23:13]
asciilifeform: mod6: fwiw i have found no consistent diff, to the 6th ( beyond that, the timer is useless ) on opteron [23:14]
asciilifeform: *6th decimal [23:14]
mod6: sure [23:14]
mod6: how do you mean 'files swapped' ? [23:15]
mod6: then hypothetically the timing values for ones and zeros should simply be reversed, no? [23:15]
asciilifeform: mod6: well ideally somehow to swap the inodes. still thinking how one might arrange such a thing. [23:16]
mod6: iron is intel core-i5 [23:16]
mod6: ooh. [23:16]
asciilifeform: mod6: start however by moving the two for-loops around in your tester [23:16]
mod6: ok. [23:16]
asciilifeform: this prolly calls for a proper test with rdtsc. but i'm saving this for 'dessert' [23:18]
asciilifeform: ( after errything else, that is, is done to death ) [23:18]
mod6: sure. i may want to re-run this entire thing anyway... i kinda dumbly ran this on my laptop. [23:18]
asciilifeform: ideally would want also not merely 'all 0' and 'all 1' but rng, and then to plot time vs hammingweight, and look for correlation [23:19]
mod6: i have this mule box that i strap workloads to (core2duo box) -- should be fine as long as CPU isn't saturated, and during this test, the lappy was only like at .7 load or w/e [23:19]
asciilifeform: well if it's a multicore, naturally won't saturate, proggy is singlethreaded [23:19]
mod6: oh right. [23:20]
mod6: anyway, on the mule, i never did get adacore running properly. this lappy is the only box i got adacore '16 running on thus far. [23:21]
asciilifeform: it's ok to build on one machine and run -- on other. static . [23:21]
mod6: only problem is: results aren't apples to apples. [23:21]
mod6: different hardware. [23:21]
asciilifeform: this is also ok. just be sure to write down, which iron. [23:21]
mod6: so would want baseline + deltas all on same env. [23:22]
asciilifeform: mod6: i will share my current hypothesis : all current intels have MUL leakage [23:22]
mod6: aha, was thinking that's what you were thinking. [23:23]
asciilifeform: otoh i could also be observing noise. [23:23]
mod6: statistical noise, might be. [23:23]
mircea_popescu: what is the expected gain here ? [23:24]
asciilifeform: but yes this calls for a proper test, with rdtsc, then buncha MUL, then rdtsc again [23:24]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to find which chips one is condemned to use egyptian innerloop MUL-substitute on. [23:24]
asciilifeform: currently the 2 known inhabitants of this list are ppc and arm7 [23:25]
mircea_popescu: how much is that worth ? [23:25]
asciilifeform: well it's worth the diff b/w actual constanttime and... not [23:25]
asciilifeform: i.e. leaking key. [23:25]
mircea_popescu: if you find now as opposed to whenever someone runs it, this differential is worth the difference between what and what ? [23:26]
asciilifeform: it is not in fact essential to find the answer ~now~. [23:26]
asciilifeform: i'm putting in both variants of mul, selectably. [23:26]
mircea_popescu: so what's this all about ? [23:26]
asciilifeform: mod6 tried his hand at 'tester of whether ffa really does constanttime modexp' asciilifeform comments on 1 set of output. is all. [23:27]
asciilifeform: not earth-shaking experiment, no. [23:28]
mircea_popescu: so his spending his time making less than minimum wage for it is basically his choice, you're just talking into the internet box ? is that the logic ? [23:28]
asciilifeform: sorta like asciilifeform's spending time making no sort of wage, writing the proggy to begin with , neh [23:29]
mircea_popescu: kinda, yeh. [23:29]
asciilifeform: i do not order mod6 , 'go and make such a test', no. [23:29]
asciilifeform: nor he -- i, 'go and...' [23:29]
mircea_popescu: what's that do ? [23:30]
mod6: yeah, no. it's fine. i was happy to build/run. to me this is all very exciting/important stuff. back when alf was doing the karatsuba and other things in the late summer/fall, this type of thing started to be contimplated for innerloop substitute. [23:30]
mircea_popescu: mod6 you are talking to a man who spent his time dicking about and as a result is getting delorded. [23:31]
mod6: i think we may need some good data collected to come up with a list of arch's that leak [23:31]
mircea_popescu: if you copy his style of "work", you'll be doing yourself a significant disservice. [23:31]
mod6: mircea_popescu: well, never the less, I'm still very much behind the utility of ffa [23:31]
mircea_popescu: yes, but meanwhile you're engaged with bbisp, which costs $$$ each month. [23:32]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: negrate, whatchawaiting for ? [23:32]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform separate items. [23:32]
mod6: mircea_popescu: well, sure. I have a lot of things going on tho lol. [23:32]
mircea_popescu: you're just inept, not dishonest. [23:32]
mod6: I get your meaning though. [23:33]
mircea_popescu: mod6 yes but if you don't sort them by time-productivity you'll end up in the soup. [23:33]
asciilifeform: it's entirely fine afaik to negrate honest people [23:33]
asciilifeform: e.g. -10 i hate his face [23:33]
mircea_popescu: not how i go about it. [23:33]
asciilifeform: oh while mircea_popescu is tuned in: bisp ( of which asciilifeform is 50% in ) awaits instructions re disposition of the 3 mircea_popescu boxen [23:39]
mircea_popescu: iirc a) they were nsa boxes and b) the problem there was transportation, after you managed to get them locked out of the phf flight that ended up not happening [23:41]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: transport has been arranged. what remains is 1) mircea_popescu wants'em in ? if so, how many (1,2,3?) 2) what type of disks he wants in #2 and #3 ( also remains option to outfit with disks at later time, after installation ) [23:42]
mircea_popescu: that doesn't say much. what exactly has been arranged, where ? [23:43]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is making a delivery run : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783930 [23:44]
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 17:48 ben_vulpes: i have one 1U slot open in my next courier run to .uy, if anyone wants their machine couriered down speak NOW or i'm going to fill it with a box of my choice [23:44]
asciilifeform: i will let him speak re exact time. [23:44]
mircea_popescu: so how many of 1, 2 or 3 do i want to fit in a 1u slot ? [23:45]
asciilifeform: well if 1, it's a 1u subscription, if 2 -- 2u, so forth [23:46]
mircea_popescu: anyway. it's unclear to me these are even dc worthy in any sense. [23:46]
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu wants them at his house to use as boat anchor -- oughta specify this. they dun do much good here on desk. [23:47]
mircea_popescu: much like errything else. [23:47]
ben_vulpes: what's so not-dc-worthy about 'em? [23:48]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: apparently , that asciilifeform touched'em [23:49]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is apparently determined to maliciously run s.nsa into the ground, and pin the corpse on asciilifeform . [23:49]
asciilifeform: and yes, asciilifeform -- not quite ~yet~ stripped of his stars and epaulettes -- wishes to put this matter before the forum. [23:50]
asciilifeform: supposing we are still carrying on with a pretense of a forum, and a lordship. [23:50]
mircea_popescu: anyway. the situation is that s.nsa naively bought some iron at your recommendation at some prior point. meanwhile you refused to deliver the "here's the mega-article comparing all hardware, which will guide future republican hardware building. [23:50]
mircea_popescu: and seeing how you're the fellow who asks me how many items do i want to fit in ben_vulpes 's one item slot, i have serious doubts about your cogency anyway. [23:50]
mircea_popescu: so for now, waiting to see what bbisp decides to do re hardware, and vageuly considering getting out-of-house expertise. [23:51]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i have nfi. could take too much power, could whatever the fuck. [23:51]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes in point of fact allocated 2 slots for s.nsa . and was asking re whether 3rd ought to also go to it, or to another. [23:51]
mircea_popescu: we still don't have a proper item on which to base hardware strategy. [23:51]
mircea_popescu: and i wouldn't trust asciilifeform to write it now, in any case. [23:51]
asciilifeform: and the measured draw is 150W . ( as descibed in detail in the past. ) [23:51]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu you are not a party to bisp. [23:51]
mircea_popescu: i still intend to follow their standards. [23:52]
asciilifeform: a customer (possibly ! not yet subscribed) -- yes [23:52]
mircea_popescu: what's "being a party" has to do with anything ? [23:52]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform sets the iron standards. [23:52]
mircea_popescu: nope. [23:52]
asciilifeform: aaaactually. [23:52]
mircea_popescu: in no case do you set any standards. [23:52]
mircea_popescu: that train left. [23:52]
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu , having sold his stake, and not even yet a subscriber, wishes to decree re what is done at bisp. [23:53]
mircea_popescu: i guess, perhaps, the standard for time frittering. but that's well set already, so. [23:53]
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, dja have some sort of decision yet ben_vulpes / mod6 ? are you goint to offer box rentals ? what kind ? [23:54]
asciilifeform: it so happens that asciilifeform has purchased a 50% stake in bisp. and specifically with one condition: that mircea_popescu (named, concretely) will not be a back-seat driver there. [23:55]
mod6: mircea_popescu: that is being discussed, yes. [23:55]
mircea_popescu: well, that was pretty dumb on their part, i guess, but whatever, experience is apparently difficult to process. [23:55]
ben_vulpes: will be renting boxes out, this first courier run is filling up with space-rental. [23:55]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ok, but which are you buying ? or what's teh strategy exactly ? [23:56]
ben_vulpes: i want the next run to have one box with lots of ram and cpu to start selling vps and shared hosting in earnest, and another 2 of smaller boxes that can be rented out entire in the $3-400/mo range. [23:59]
mircea_popescu: yes, but the problem with "lots of x" is that... [23:59]
mircea_popescu: so basically is the idea that you'll just do whatever and we're missing this opportunity to attempt an' standardize iron ? [23:59]
Category: Logs
Comments feed : RSS 2.0. Leave your own comment below, or send a trackback.
Add your cents! »
    If this is your first comment, it will wait to be approved. This usually takes a few hours. Subsequent comments are not delayed.