Forum logs for 15 May 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was ! [00:34]
mircea_popescu: heh [00:35]
mircea_popescu: stupid fucking idea, that. [00:35]
asciilifeform: in theory was to give a less stupid elsewhere in mechanism. [00:40]
mircea_popescu: i guess. there's ~no way to compensate that loss of mass though. [00:41]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1480...8943 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown TH) [00:52]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1699...5459 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown TH) [00:52]
BingoBoingo: The wankel is indeed a total oil loss system, which means FU PETROIL! [01:04]
BingoBoingo: But no, instead they wanna fake boring ole normal and instead the moo cows moo "Leak! Leak!" [01:04]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1471...3069 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( FR) [01:10]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1794...6813 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( FR) [01:10]
* BingoBoingo today had to console poor fellow who burdened himself with a 4-cycle string trimmer "It seems to not be that powerful" "Of course it's not, there's half as many power strokes" [01:12]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i dun follow ? [01:53]
BingoBoingo: The wankel being a 4-stroke, or poor fellow who misadventured on 4-stroke strimmer getting jewed of of half the power strokes he'd have on a 2-cycle [02:16]
BingoBoingo: But wankel while a 4-stroke is a total loss design that even has oil injection, a feature usually reserved for larger 2-strokes [02:21]
deedbot: << Qntra - Doge Doldrums Drum On [03:17]
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: palmer link broken [03:25]
shinohai: <<< Who will stop the Great Again? -- Preeeeeeeeet [07:20]
Framedragger: << actually i want to try this sometime, too, any chance you've already fiddled with it pete_dushenski? :D [09:25]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 03:18 pete_dushenski: open q : anyone tried this (or other) intel me 'cleaner' ? [09:25]
mircea_popescu: shinohai lol, the butthurt of the idiot indian. he was already seeing himself consul, what do we mean his career is finished ?!?!?! CAN NOT BEEE!!11 [10:02]
mircea_popescu: "scholar in residence", they wouldn't even give him a chair. NYU ffs! next step down was what, supervising the used sportsbras of the ohio state sluts ? [10:03]
shinohai: I was trying to think of how to spin a Qntra out of it, but it was quite lulzy on it's own. [10:07]
mircea_popescu: aha [10:07]
mircea_popescu: maybe he never overcomes the moment, spends rest of his life cringing over this, like a sort of lefty rms. [10:08]
mircea_popescu: would be pretty cool. [10:08]
shinohai: He can always learn 2 write shitty javascript and sell crap on fivver like all the other pajeets. [10:09]
mircea_popescu: but he thought he is a speshul pajeet! [10:11]
shinohai: He is, if I ever find some Indian city willing to accept Bitcoin in exchange for naming a designated shitting street after him, I will gladly memorialize him. [10:15]
mircea_popescu: phf` suppose this morning you have to read l'histoire de mademoiselle cronel ditte fretilon. because whatever, as part of your plurious activities you're helping a girl get a place off the ground and being a serious agent you scoop the quarries of truth quite that deep. what now ? [10:18]
mircea_popescu: i dun feel like paying amazon 30 bux because who the fuck are they, not like they helped me know i hafta read this, and not like there can exist another merit i dun feel like waiting till they deliver. i did see the book at one point, in library, of course, which is how i know it exists, but i'm not going back there to read a book. [10:19]
mod6: mornin' [10:29]
mircea_popescu: hola [10:31]
diana_coman: hi mod6 [10:31]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no 13337w4r3zscan seems to exist, aha [10:32]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: send a gurl to library with a minox ? [10:33]
mircea_popescu: but the overarching point is that a life of the spirit requires you read books you DIDNT read before. re-reading the same books you already know is a dubious benefit. [10:33]
asciilifeform: aha! [10:33]
mircea_popescu: works well enough if one decides to be say, a playwright. all you need is already published and already known, learn greek and latin and go ahead. [10:34]
mircea_popescu: but some people are not specific things. what's they to do. [10:34]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the monkey house, >> 'And by the way, I think we can successfully make Zcash too traceable for criminals like WannaCry, but still completely private & fungible' -- zooko (perpetrator of subj scamcoin) [10:34]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they end up with 20k tomes and get laughed at by mircea_popescu for 'hoarding dead tree' [10:34]
mircea_popescu: the meteoric path of that young careerist is quite amusing. started rather impressively, fell right in the shitter. [10:34]
* shinohai wrote Qntra on that, hasn't yet been published [10:34]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not for hoarding dead tree per se, but for attempting to apply a linear solution to a nonlinear problem WAY past the point where the mismatch should have become obvious. [10:35]
mircea_popescu: i also hoard dead tree, it's called furniture. but in that application works fabulously well, the absence of a different couch does in no way detract from the damsel's moans who's overturned on it. [10:35]
asciilifeform: woah -- mircea_popescu stopped leasing furniture?! [10:36]
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform associates the practice with mircea_popescu , he had never met anyone else, afaik, who did it ) [10:36]
mircea_popescu: nope, still renting furnished! [10:37]
mircea_popescu: but at least i don't throw it all out the window, so there's that. [10:37]
asciilifeform: i'll grudgingly agree with the folx who remind that the correct thing to do with a rare b00k is to scan it, not to hoard it like koschei's treasures [10:37]
asciilifeform: but it's a whole-day chore ( if done correctly ) with current tech. so ~nobody bothers. [10:38]
mircea_popescu: hoarding it like ~ is borne of a very flattering view of humanity, supposing somehow that the worms could also not be worms, if $magic, such as you know, reading a book. [10:38]
mircea_popescu: experience shows they could not and do not. [10:38]
asciilifeform: well so's scanning, by same token [10:38]
mircea_popescu: you just scan it to carry it easier-ly. [10:39]
mircea_popescu: "here's this process makes the leaf impervious and weightless, sir. or would you prefer we gild the covers instead ?" [10:39]
asciilifeform: lolyeah [10:39]
asciilifeform: now it only if it also retained same readability ! [10:39]
mircea_popescu: "yea, please, more gilding, and use thicker leaf, maybe i manage to sink in earth like a raft adrift the oceans." [10:40]
asciilifeform: in other lulz, >> 'The Allianz Deutscher Demokraten (ADD), a political party in Germany founded by Turkish-Germans, has faced another obstacle after their bank account was shut down for the fourth time for no reason.' [10:42]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "au-deflus des plus fenefees reflexions"! [10:42]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check out this lulz : in order to open a bank account, ALL banks of costa rica require the company present them with a PROJECTED CASH FLOW! supposedly because there's some law so requiring them, which i dun much credit, but i do intend to find a lawyer and ask their local constitutional court. in any case, all this supposedly because "since 9/11 the ustards forced them to", which is obviously lulzy since the ust [10:44]
mircea_popescu: ards DONT actuallty require that themselves. [10:44]
asciilifeform: tru!! they do not [10:44]
asciilifeform: they do require a postal addr that isn't a box, lulzily [10:44]
asciilifeform: ( what it did , is to prop up 10,001 previously unknown scamolade service where you get 'shared office' ) [10:45]
mircea_popescu: aha. [10:46]
* Framedragger had to supply a coupla raised invoices in UK for bank to say "mk this bzns looks like serious bzns". felt dodgy (i can raise invoice to ur mom) [10:50]
mircea_popescu: since when the fuck is bank allowed to judge, what is this, soviets ? [10:52]
* mircea_popescu also refused to get himself "good fiscal behaviour" certificate when rotards came up with "requiring" such nonsense. they nearly fell over. [10:53]
asciilifeform: not as if 'free world' 'bank' were a private org. rather than a crown organ where plebe is to put his meager savings for ease of requisitioning. [10:53]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's actually a public utility. has absolutely no right over the usage of its monopoly, much like electric co can't cut your power. [10:54]
asciilifeform: сберкасса. [10:54]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not in this reich, it ain't. bank can unplug whoever. and charge $maxint, say, if it wants. [10:55]
asciilifeform: against a 0 balance, even. [10:55]
mircea_popescu: i don't live in that reich. [10:55]
asciilifeform: apparently it isn't contained. [10:55]
mircea_popescu: apparently a bunch of idiots watch too much netflix and don't encounter nearly enough clubs to the mouth to know better than trying to apply in life what they saw in the cartoons. [10:56]
mircea_popescu: but i carry a large stick, and dun mind hurting people. [10:56]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, microshit fud agency working overtime, >> 'Microsoft has criticized the NSA for their major role in spreading the WannaCry ransomware epidemic which paralyzed hundreds of thousands of computers worldwide. The tech giant urged governments to use and store their cyber warfare tools responsibly.' [11:00]
mircea_popescu: lol, duking it out with usg.nsa over the fact that they got publicly raped a little ? [11:01]
asciilifeform: playing a rape scene for camera. [11:01]
mircea_popescu: "oh, the soviets got defeated by a buncha chukas, but it is not the peace&defense ministry's fault! it's the supplies&items ministry's fault!" [11:01]
asciilifeform: ( i'd guess even the furnace stokers at microshit grasp that the entire operation is very little more than a factory for nsa pwnholes ) [11:02]
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : how to fix idiotic (fixed width paragraph) documents ? s/\n\n/\r\r/ s/\n// s/\r/\n/. thanks god for idiotic newline alternatives. [11:03]
asciilifeform: 'dos2unix' also worx [11:03]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, but that makes no difference. [11:03]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how does it work ? [11:03]
asciilifeform: or hm nm, not same problem [11:04]
mircea_popescu: no, problem is someone somewhere IS FUCKING IDIOTIC ENOUGH to touch the enter key for any other reason than end of paragraph. [11:04]
mircea_popescu: then unix crapola has non-flowing text because hey, let's be idiots. [11:04]
asciilifeform: i disagree [11:05]
asciilifeform: CONTROL over where paragraph breaks [11:05]
asciilifeform: where line breaks. [11:05]
asciilifeform: the alternative to mid-word idiotbreaks is 'dwim' attempt [11:05]
asciilifeform: which also dunwork. [11:05]
mircea_popescu: fu. it's not your fucking problem. your paragraph is a line. how (or whether) that line is broken is the problem of whoever displays it. [11:05]
mircea_popescu: stop being a fucking web designer in your spare time. [11:06]
asciilifeform: not if it's a line of code, it aint [11:06]
mircea_popescu: yes, it is. [11:06]
asciilifeform: there is not even necessarily a correct place to break it. [11:06]
mircea_popescu: so ? let the whoever views it do whatever they deem fit. [11:06]
asciilifeform: the number of displaytrons that exist, that can do this, is 0. [11:07]
mircea_popescu: your job is to write your line of code well not to "ensure" random person you don't nor can know LOOKS AT IT FROM THE RIGFHT ANGLE [11:07]
mircea_popescu: wtf. [11:07]
asciilifeform: fact. there is not a proggy that will intelligently, cleanly, break lines of code in every known lang [11:07]
mircea_popescu: so ? [11:07]
asciilifeform: so that i can print it on dotmatrix printer. [11:07]
mircea_popescu: let. the. owner. of. proggy. solve. HIS FUCKING PROBLEMS. [11:08]
asciilifeform: those of us who aren't mircea_popescu and have to clean own piles of shit, or they DON'T GET CLEANED, might disagree. [11:08]
mircea_popescu: otherwise you're right back to [11:08]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-07 04:44 fromloper: I have NDA access, so I have slightly better documentation (but still shit and incomplete). Business decision. Intel only because that's where 95% of the market is. Also easier to do security research on ME and AMT if you can step through, which needs JTAG as well. [11:08]
asciilifeform: think of line breaks as a comment. [11:09]
asciilifeform: it is quite considerably easier to s/\n\n/\r\r/ s/\n// s/\r/\n/ --- than to put'em back IN [11:09]
mircea_popescu: mno. i'm thinking of them as what they are -- the author being mentally slow, and attempting the equivalent of ajax in my fucking text file. [11:09]
Framedragger: so instead of writing code i now need to write a code editor which can break code lines code-semantically? :/ [11:09]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i never want them. [11:09]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger why ? [11:10]
mircea_popescu: nano fro instance doesn't break them at all. [11:10]
Framedragger: [11:10]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-15 15:07 asciilifeform: fact. there is not a proggy that will intelligently, cleanly, break lines of code in every known lang [11:10]
asciilifeform: I WON'T HORIZONTALSCROLL [11:10]
Framedragger: yes and i hate nano, it's horrible for long lines [11:10]
asciilifeform: nobody can ever make me. everyone can go and pound sand. [11:10]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but WHY IS IT EVEN IN THERE! [11:10]
asciilifeform: and likewise will not edit code in nano or any similar. [11:10]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger im not proposing it be used, i'm just lulzing at the whole nonsense. [11:11]
Framedragger: ah, well then yeah, it's pretty luzly :D tis true [11:11]
mircea_popescu: anyway. you're telling me you can't read code broken on space like sane wordwrap does ? [11:11]
asciilifeform: nope. [11:11]
mircea_popescu: whyssat ? [11:12]
asciilifeform: well for one thing, it ain't valid, in , say , c [11:12]
asciilifeform: ( in a macro def, say ) [11:12]
asciilifeform: for another, it fucks up indentation [11:12]
asciilifeform: which is the only sane way to read lisps [11:12]
Framedragger: code can't scroll horizontally, breaks too many things. e.g. visual selection of blocks. needs to literally-fit-in-head horizontal-wise [11:12]
asciilifeform: (indentation MUST remain as author put it ) [11:12]
mircea_popescu: in my experience line of code that exceeds viewport is in all cases an example of badly written code. [11:12]
asciilifeform: python, say, or fortran, will not even build if you lose indent [11:12]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in this we agree. but how big is the viewport ? [11:13]
mircea_popescu: as big as you fucking feel like. [11:13]
asciilifeform: not physically possible. [11:13]
mircea_popescu: and if you try to read people with viewport larger than yours, either buy a better system or live with your inferiority. [11:13]
asciilifeform: if yours is 120col and mine is 80, now you are demanding that i horizontalscroll. [11:13]
asciilifeform: and i wont. [11:13]
mircea_popescu: no. i am simply saying i am a better man than you. and you will either 120 or live with knowing this. [11:13]
asciilifeform: tell me where i can buy an ips lcd that gives more than 80 reasonably sized fixedwidthchars when turned to god's proper orientation (vertical) and i'll buy. [11:14]
mircea_popescu: hey. [11:14]
mircea_popescu: fix your own problems. [11:14]
asciilifeform: i'ma ignore this nonsense coming from a fella who doesn't program. [11:14]
* Framedragger has not-great eyesight and prefers traditional 80col, worx great [11:14]
asciilifeform: even if he has 64 parallel-operating 12 metre cocks. [11:14]
mircea_popescu: what, it's nonsense because we don't share the same incentives to misrepresent the facts ? [11:14]
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to say "this fellow has no idea what the fuck he's saying" it's quite another to say "this fellow doesn't know of our hardships!". the former's an argument. the latter... [11:16]
asciilifeform: it is very easy to prescribe that pilot's yoke should be shaped like pair of tits, if you are not and not at any risk of working as pilot. [11:17]
mircea_popescu: i am a bash programmer! [11:17]
asciilifeform: and i usedto be an asm programmer, 20 columns is all i needed, lol [11:18]
mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, it's not for a living". no, it's not, it's for a dying / [11:18]
asciilifeform: (on a bad day!) [11:18]
mircea_popescu: is the substance of disagreement that you want things to read like [11:19]
mircea_popescu: while { [11:19]
mircea_popescu: do stuff [11:19]
mircea_popescu: as opposed to while { do stuff ? [11:19]
asciilifeform: poorly chosen example [11:20]
mircea_popescu: because yes, your lisp code should be line=paragraph, and your ide should properly expand the parens, and afaik / afaies it DOES. [11:20]
asciilifeform: if it does, that's a diff-creating operation [11:20]
mircea_popescu: that the rest of the crap ~dun work that way... hey. i thought that's mostly why you don't like the rest of the crap in the first place [11:20]
asciilifeform: and the vdiff becomes unreadable. [11:21]
mircea_popescu: (not for the direct, but for the failure implicit) [11:21]
asciilifeform: this is EXACTLY the tab-sizes thread with mircea_popescu from year ago. [11:21]
mircea_popescu: pretty much. [11:21]
asciilifeform: and yes in 'proper comp' code would be stored as an ast, and not as ascii linear turd. [11:21]
asciilifeform: but we dun have one. [11:21]
mircea_popescu: to put it another way : [11:21]
asciilifeform: nor any tools that rely on such. [11:21]
mircea_popescu: it is INCREDIBLY lulzy to catch fire at "string = number" but to tolerate "my program is a strring hurr" [11:22]
asciilifeform: however on bright side!: mircea_popescu will quite like, i suspect, 'P' : all nonprinting octets are NOPs in P. [11:22]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck can't i add the string 68 with the numeral 7 to get the real 74.99999999 as god intended ? it's ALL STRINGS YES ? [11:22]
asciilifeform: when Character'Val(0) .. Character'Val(32) => [11:22]
asciilifeform: null [11:22]
asciilifeform: when Character'Val(127) .. Character'Val(255) => [11:22]
asciilifeform: null [11:22]
asciilifeform: ^ excerpt. [11:23]
mircea_popescu: ha! [11:23]
Framedragger: semantic diff would of course be spiffy, there is that. [11:24]
Framedragger: neat asciilifeform.. [11:24]
mircea_popescu: no, Framedragger , it wouldn't be neat. it would be normal. code-as-ascii-string diff fundamentally can't work. [11:25]
Framedragger: yesyes, meanwhile i'll go and pretend i have a computer! [11:25]
mircea_popescu: aok then. [11:25]
asciilifeform: ( anybody recalls asciilifeform's crackpot diff thread ? it was more or less 'p prog in disguise') [11:25]
mircea_popescu: THIS MUST BE BECAUSE ~I~ AM NOT A PROGRAMMER. [11:25]
mircea_popescu: you know, unlike you people, tru drivers of your imaginary tractors / flying veyrons. [11:25]
Framedragger: well that's one way to stay sane! [11:25]
asciilifeform: << thread. [11:25]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-05 00:24 asciilifeform: this is to abolish the line-based idiocy of unix diff. [11:25]
Framedragger: ast-based-diff does imply getting rid of 'line' concept in source, doesn't it [11:26]
asciilifeform: verily. [11:26]
mircea_popescu: well, i see it absorbed in paragraph, but whatever. item, how'd you call the thing. [11:26]
asciilifeform: the unfortunate bit is that lines are quite like 'stick shift' auto. an anachronism, but the supposed automation is not ~quite~ there. [11:27]
mircea_popescu: the humanities tradition is that meaningful text (eg law) is quoted by page and paragraph, whereas meaningless text (eg, ehtnological notation) is quoted by page and line. [11:27]
asciilifeform: human-speech generally doesn't nest >1level. [11:28]
mircea_popescu: depends who's the human speaking. [11:28]
mircea_popescu: but yes, peon outpour is generally linear. [11:28]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: this explains why modern analytic philosophy got rid of paragraph notation (cf. kant and, like, everyone else), hmm... [11:28]
asciilifeform: and human-text with quotes-within-quotes begins to resemble fortran. [11:28]
mircea_popescu: or trilema. [11:28]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger and why ~nobody sane calls some randomly chosen species of the "reality tv show" "modern philosophy". [11:29]
mircea_popescu: you understand the difference between baudrillard and simona trasca is the packaging only, yes ? [11:30]
Framedragger: test [11:33]
Framedragger: sorry, problems with connection [11:34]
mod6: ding [11:34]
Framedragger: ty [11:34]
Framedragger: (from irc backlog) eh, there's ~passable stuff, like chalmers (actually vaguely referenced in logs) etc [11:34]
Framedragger: but yeah. also paragraph notion vaguely relates to "log ranges" concept (which i haven't developed any further, yet.) l1 folx give labels to log line ranges these 'breaks' can then visibly (not obnoxiously) appear in online logotron. [11:34]
mircea_popescu: sure, and the tv on occasion has hot chicks that are a pleasure in private. i know. so ? [11:34]
Framedragger: << who is the latter? :D [11:34]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-15 15:30 mircea_popescu: you understand the difference between baudrillard and simona trasca is the packaging only, yes ? [11:34]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: hm so you would dismiss say the whole internalism/externalism debate as effectively tv show, then? :D [11:35]
mircea_popescu: random $50 an hour ro tv starlet. google images shows you the... well, you know, normal face, they all look the same. [11:35]
Framedragger: aha ic [11:35]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i would dismiss the whole "public intellectual" v 5.0 as entirely like the tv starlet. they ALSO all sound the same. [11:35]
mircea_popescu: !!up fd_ghetto [11:36]
deedbot: fd_ghetto voiced for 30 minutes. [11:36]
mircea_popescu: the girls stuff their lips with silicon etc, the boys use certain textual devices, whatever. [11:36]
fd_ghetto: (sorry, very shoddy irc connection all of the sudden. ping is stable so not sure wtf) [11:36]
Framedragger: heh re textual devices, i guess i have to agree. baudrillard... i liked it when i first read simulation/simulacra. yes it was pretty vapous, i mean, beyond the "map != territory but depends how you use words, kid!!", summarised in a paragraph or two... so, sure [11:37]
mircea_popescu: and it dun has anything to do with the french style of going on tv. anglo derp sitting in his office "writing" for "peer reviewed" etc is not doing anything different. it's just a shitty tv channel nobody tunes in, the nature channel, the peer reviewed channel, etc. [11:38]
Framedragger: i don't have a strong case but don't consider all of analytic philosophy to be just "public intellectuals". a *large lot* of it, sure, so makes sense to just dismiss all of it for the sake of saving time / internal sanity [11:38]
mircea_popescu: there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning. [11:38]
Framedragger: that's like some kind of anti-derrida [11:39]
Framedragger: (and hard to disagree) [11:39]
mircea_popescu: in the sense pointing and laughing is some kind of anti-mongoloid, sure. [11:39]
trinque: if one can't derive ought from is, and authority dispenses commands, not so hard to process. [11:41]
mircea_popescu: trinque or alternatively you could draw it directly from aristotle and the discussions of prime movers. though the subtleties of scholastics are not well understood by the "modern" mind. [11:42]
mircea_popescu: anyway, table stakes for derrida-ing, either as jacques or john, is writing that damned as a universal errorless machine. [11:44]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-15 15:09 Framedragger: so instead of writing code i now need to write a code editor which can break code lines code-semantically? :/ [11:44]
mircea_popescu: of course, it's not generally the way of tv personalities to inquire what'd be the table stakes. they're just there, right ? [11:45]
Framedragger: so much heat [11:45]
mircea_popescu: welcome to hell. [11:46]
trinque: << oblig [11:47]
a111: Logged on 2016-02-26 22:57 phf: ^- [11:47]
mircea_popescu: lmao [11:47]
mircea_popescu: heck, you could actually draw it out of the kuhn-popper theory of paradigm. [11:48]
asciilifeform: ( oblig. mega-thread re aristotle & co, ) [11:56]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:43 mircea_popescu: now we understand each other. dutch can't be "wrong" about aristotle per se. it is a fact he didn't much understand what the other said and it is a fact that in the dutch system, dutch's observations stand, however vaguely greek flavoured they may be. [11:56]
mircea_popescu: aha. [11:56]
mircea_popescu: << so delightfully naive, in retrospect. "oh, the reason alphabet doesn't work is that the meaning of words gets lost through thousands of years, but if only they had slideshare then! the wholly contentless meaningless diagram is eternal -- nothing there to lose!" [12:06]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:18 jurov: heh, nice example how alphabet is inferior to diagrams. if aristotle had drawn a diagrams that would survive to this day, no translation needed [12:06]
mircea_popescu: i should open a bank offering 100% guaranteed deposits -- for the poor. [12:06]
mircea_popescu: somehow the observation that they could read aristotle in the middle ages but couldn't read egyptian until 1800s doth not bother the diagramist. [12:09]
asciilifeform: maybe because egyptian is hieroglyphic, not diagramatic ? [12:11]
mircea_popescu: somehow the fact aristotle is a major source of quotes today in europe, but fukantothmoth or w/e her name was isn't a source of anything for "the great nation of africa" idem dun bother. why the fuck is it that i can recide names of ancient members of the republic of letters to fill an orthodox pomelnik for a full mass, and nobody can name three fucking egyptian authors he likes. supposedly they taught our barbarians magic an [12:11]
mircea_popescu: d mapmaking! [12:11]
asciilifeform: i.e. the glyphs do not carry meaning with raw geometry [12:11]
asciilifeform: the idiot yahweh book is even bigger source of quotage. [12:11]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or maybe because the hope that diagrams won't pile up and evolve to hieroglyphs entirely baseless ? [12:11]
asciilifeform: now wat. [12:11]
mircea_popescu: they already fucking copy/paste the slides into a shannonized mess. [12:11]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform now nothing, torah is alphabetic. [12:12]
mircea_popescu: carrying meaning with raw geometry. if only. the easier case for this would be "carrying love with naked penis", ie, raping your way into marriage. that has better chances of working than the meaning of sheer existence. [12:13]
asciilifeform: all known humlangs are alphabetic or hieroglyphic. diagram is neither here nor there, it is a narrowly specialized thing [12:13]
asciilifeform: (written langs, monkeys not counted) [12:13]
mircea_popescu: like any nonsense, it claims no parentage. but no, it is a primitive kind of hieroglyphism. [12:13]
asciilifeform: do we have to do the 'find me whoever willing to work with humlang representation of electric circuit as the primary working medium' thread again..? [12:14]
mircea_popescu: the fact that you get an erection watching a picture of Anne rather than reading "Anne spent her days naked and her tits were big and milky" is no argument as to the ~meaning~. your erections ain't meaningful. [12:15]
asciilifeform: ain't about aesthetics, but about whether or not $machine ends up built. [12:16]
asciilifeform: and there is a reason why aristotles build 0 machines. [12:16]
mircea_popescu: i live among a people who prefer textual renditions of paths to actual map usage, or cartesian addressing mechanisms. the notion that you have a more direct understanding of some house by saying "Fuckenstrasse 17" than by saying "turn left art the church and follow the tit stamps on the sidewalk" is ... [12:16]
asciilifeform: ('because they are better men!' will say mircea_popescu .) [12:16]
mircea_popescu: i am unaware of this machine you built. last i recall, we're still at [12:16]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-15 15:25 mircea_popescu: THIS MUST BE BECAUSE ~I~ AM NOT A PROGRAMMER. [12:16]
mircea_popescu: aristotle built plenty of machines that didn't work also. [12:16]
mircea_popescu: he had a whole workshop producing cutlery devoid of handles but missing the business end. [12:17]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1379...6713 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown US GA) [12:18]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1639...5677 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' (Unknown US GA) [12:18]
Framedragger: one $sadthing re aristotle is that he did all his logic in verbal syllogisms. which is ~fine, but omg did predicate symbol notation help... and it took a long while. same with middle age logic (buridan et al, not an expert tho). guess knowing lating well helps a lot, tho :/ [12:20]
Framedragger: middle ages* latin* [12:20]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the amusing parallel ot all this is, of course, the "plain reading" of the us constitution. [12:21]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger latin is not so far off from predicate symbol notation in the first place, which easement did slow down the development of hte cleanner tool. [12:22]
mircea_popescu: how this works, whoever has nice weather ends up falling behind in textile mill development. [12:22]
mircea_popescu: quod me nutrit etcetera, vampyre class 101. [12:23]
mircea_popescu: btw, you know the famous case of buridan's ass yes ? [12:23]
Framedragger: the paradox re free will, been a long time tho [12:24]
mircea_popescu: yes, the ass that died of thirst and hunger being trapped equally thirsty and hungry at equal distance from a pail of water and a pail of oats. [12:24]
mircea_popescu: (amusingly enough, lots of "engineers" esp of the computing type display the behaviour.) [12:25]
Framedragger: if you constrain free will to rational-agent-acts only, then yeah, paradox applies.. right? [12:25]
Framedragger: "stochastic behaviour important part of agent!", something [12:26]
mircea_popescu: if you pretend "rationality" ie "i fucking love science" ie, meaning-afore-authority to be the prime mover. [12:26]
Framedragger: yeah i don't, heh [12:26]
mircea_popescu: the rest is just whitewash, mostly by people who imagine authority is something they can personally deny. speak truth to power or something. [12:26]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1371...3537 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( DE NW) [12:26]
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1699...8117 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <> ' ( DE NW) [12:26]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: devil's advocate: can attempt to resist where-to-go paradox without making reference to authority if you admit that agent's free will can also include (while still counting as free will) "unconscious heuristics" ("water is priority" but yes this is missing the point, i guess) / "random behaviour" (buridan would disagree that this is "free will", i guess) [12:30]
Framedragger: but yeah i see the connection re thread [12:30]
mircea_popescu: sure, and then the "random" is the authority. [12:30]
Framedragger: yeah i guess so. [12:30]
mircea_popescu: because every time baby-thought runs into insurmountable problem, it runs off to mommy "random" box. which is not random to mommy now is it. [12:30]
Framedragger: (heh, this relates in my head re taleb's "trust yer biology!!" point (iterated in multiple places)) [12:31]
mircea_popescu: whether you are obeying the words of darius, the greatest man-god to walk the sands around babylon, carried to your ears by a stout fellow in weird pajamas or the echoes of the voice of some dumb woman nobody liked, whom you'de irrationalyl decided is important beyond all else in nature or the strange flickers of a tube which "is impersonal and therefore truthful, pay no attention at the jew behind the screen", in point o [12:32]
mircea_popescu: f fact you predicate your meaning on preexisting authority. [12:32]
Framedragger: i suppose one cannot avoid this general structural, at least i can't, yeah. does wonders for my ongoing internal-anarchism debate :D [12:34]
Framedragger: (will produce text from mind if anything good comes up, but likely won't) [12:34]
Framedragger: structural point* [12:35]
mircea_popescu: without exception one claiming "i fucking love science" or "where can i find just the facts" or etcetera is merely rejecting what they perceive as the NORMAL authority, in favour of an unvoiced alternative they deem superior. [12:35]
mircea_popescu: the problem of course being that [12:36]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-12 00:57 mircea_popescu: how about "bitch, if you could know truth if it hit you on the head you'd be in power". not fucking evident enough ? how the fuck are the powerless to obtain truth, from their father, the god of the stupid ? [12:36]
mircea_popescu: cogent challenge to authority is a finnicky-er order than readily intuited by the desperate adolescent [12:36]
mircea_popescu: hence [12:36]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-08 17:04 mircea_popescu: i don't think you either know or could meet if you dedicated a year to it someone possessed of an ai capable of identifying who the fuck to shoot. [12:36]
Framedragger: right. [12:37]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where did the 'luvv science' thing come from originally ? [12:37]
asciilifeform: i've been seeing it for years and never knew [12:38]
mircea_popescu: was some black dude with tv show [12:39]
mircea_popescu: something with false color renderings of outer space telescope shots [12:39]
mircea_popescu: the idea being that "i fucking love britney spears because here's a painting of her in my bedroom" in 2004, "i fucking love science because here's a painting of science in my bedroom" 2005, then hs ended moved to dorm got stoned and plugged in all the holes. [12:40]
asciilifeform: << funnily enough this is a serious problem in digital electronics, [12:40]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-15 16:24 mircea_popescu: yes, the ass that died of thirst and hunger being trapped equally thirsty and hungry at equal distance from a pail of water and a pail of oats. [12:40]
mircea_popescu: sort of last-stop on the train ride between virginity and mother of two. nobody can recount what happened in the intervening decade [12:41]
asciilifeform: !#s metastable [12:41]
a111: 7 results for "metastable", [12:41]
mircea_popescu: though christina applegate did decent job in [12:41]
asciilifeform: in other horrors: [13:03]
mircea_popescu: i don't get what it is supposed to do ? [13:41]
asciilifeform: not obvious to asciilifeform either. [13:41]
mircea_popescu: rfid chip for your acrylics ? [13:41]
Framedragger: nfc => contactless payments, presumably. pay for condoms with finger [13:46]
mircea_popescu: maybe they could add them to foreskins, could pay per stroke. [13:48]
Framedragger: ejaculation charged extra, unless netfuxx subscription. where is my vc money? [13:49]
mircea_popescu: girls could charge by kinetic momentum / mass displacement / profile geometry etc. fairer. [13:49]
mircea_popescu: could get a ----- BEGIN DICK DESCRIPTOR ----- header that'd allow ytou to estimate upfront. [13:49]
mircea_popescu: "my dick's gnarlier but thicker than normal" [13:50]
Framedragger: worx for me as long as javascript callbacks are supported so developers can expand and add custom JS logic [13:51]
Framedragger: like, apple watch can start flashing when precum is estimated to be secreted [13:51]
Framedragger: just need to write a cashflow plan now! [13:52]
mircea_popescu: could make a whole bunch of "clever" romcoms around the newly upgraded mistaken identity comedy, omg his watch flashed. [13:52]
mircea_popescu: thanks god for progress, see, we can now re-do all the boccaccio which we pretend to not exist, because the old redos are no longer cogent of the new set of hyeroglyphs. [13:53]
mircea_popescu: best self-licking cone ever. [13:53]
asciilifeform: hey they were on vhs and nao bluray!111 [13:54]
mircea_popescu: basically "modern culture" is strictly this : a special monkery where idiotic monks re-do the copying of old manuscripts in the font of the year. [13:54]
mircea_popescu: forever employed, and forever self-important. [13:54]
mircea_popescu: (no, it's not clear if monkery or monks is misspelled.) [13:54]
mircea_popescu: in the latest lulz re banking scams, third world banks discovered that if they just charge for wires anyway, notwitstanding sent OUR, nobody'll know the difference. [14:02]
mircea_popescu: i have nfi who imagines anyone would want to live in a world run by the bureaucrats in preference of a world run by the drug dealers. am i really supposed to believe a guy who always sells the amount he promises is not to be trusted with government, whereas a conclave of disgusting crows that never fail to break their promises are naturally recommended for the job ? [14:03]
mircea_popescu: fuck that shit, give me a country run by pimps and hookers, i do not want to see more "college educated" "respectable" schmucks raise head above water. [14:03]
* ben_vulpes did turn all notifications off on all mobile devices [14:05]
ben_vulpes: it is abhorrent that apple decided to display who's texting me over my movies. [14:05]
mircea_popescu: no dude, everything is connected!! [14:05]
ben_vulpes: [14:06]
* asciilifeform has one ! [14:07]
ben_vulpes: ) [14:07]
asciilifeform: only the filename, mindyou. [14:12]
Framedragger: ah, ssh blackhole-shell! [14:13]
ben_vulpes: sadly, the only for new apple retardation is not buying apple products [14:15]
ben_vulpes: "oh gosh, you know i think i'm too old to learn a new ui" [14:15]
mircea_popescu: the only for not having a dilated asshole and insulted prostate is... not taking cock up the ass. sadly ? I THINK NOT!!! [14:16]
ben_vulpes: "baby you are entirely capable of deducing what the new buttons do, i don't want to hear that kind of nonsense from you any more." [14:16]
mircea_popescu: i didn't want cock up my ass in the first place. [14:16]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it was a pussy when i first got in bed. [14:16]
ben_vulpes: went trans. [14:16]
mircea_popescu: i heard of those! [14:17]
deedbot: << Qntra - Zooko Proposes Undermining Alread Questionable Privacy Measure While Remaining Complete [14:47]
BingoBoingo: In the "Sad That Not Scammed Files": You need to stop giving a fuck about how your car looks. I was cross shopping clean RSX-Ss against my CRZ, and I got a bargain basement CRZ at $7500. You paid $2300, maybe a third of what a nice one costs. The only amazing thing here is that you are stunned that your car that cost a third of "what it should" has tons of problems. [15:05]
deedbot: << Qntra - New Plastic (Definitely Not Sterling) UK Pound Notes Cut Noses [15:12]
ben_vulpes: kek [15:16]
ben_vulpes: reminds me of the story of the american producer visiting canada who refused to sniff the maple-scented bills, certain that he was being trolled. [15:16]
BingoBoingo: Wait, Canadian bills are diabetic? [15:20]
ben_vulpes: whaddaya mean? [15:29]
BingoBoingo: Diabetic urine smells like maple syrup [15:29]
ben_vulpes: weird [15:30]
ben_vulpes: i suppose then yes, except for the actually producing piss part. [15:30]
BingoBoingo: Nah, it's the body trying to control blood sugar by dumping it through the piss [15:30]
ben_vulpes: and not all. [15:30]
BingoBoingo: And as socialists candadians treat money and markets as a waste stream [15:31]
Framedragger: [16:07]
Framedragger: is it _not_ true* argh [16:08]
* Framedragger realised the term "inflection point" was actually used in the article itself (in a footnote), in the sense i had in mind, so needless to say, not an original point [16:16]
Framedragger: also new weekly update on [16:42]
Framedragger: (author did not respond to query, before anyone asks) [16:42]
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ty for response, no follow-ups for now :) [16:48]
mircea_popescu: :p [16:49]
trinque: Framedragger: is this query "supposing there were a bomb under your ass and nothing you could do, what would you do?" [16:52]
trinque: siberian permafrost methane or w/e? [16:53]
shinohai: The motivation for creating the shitty database boils down to "the one we were using wasn't written in a hipster language." <<< top kek [16:54]
Framedragger: trinque: hm, no, honestly the point *was* just about non-linearity. not about action or "hey we should hedge our bets just in case", etc. [16:54]
trinque: got it. [16:55]
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking thing is that for ~as long as there existed human culture, which is to say the greeks, it was both known, evident, and accepted that the situation of life on earth is precarious, and the party will end. [16:55]
Framedragger: i do not presently assign any high value towards AGW, but am also unsure of the "if there were a bomb, there definitely would be nothing to be done" part. i mean, i guess so, hm. [16:55]
mircea_popescu: it took however the dumbest generation of narcissists in history to make this astral point personal. [16:55]
mircea_popescu: "the sun was walking down shithead avenue in maryland, and as it sat down at the starbucks it felt a ..." [16:55]
mircea_popescu: wtf already. [16:55]
trinque: I asked because what occurred to me is that "AGW" is a fine excuse for the sniveling neuroses of the present generation. [16:55]
mircea_popescu: quite so. [16:55]
trinque: tlp came to mind also, ofc. [16:56]
Framedragger: oh yeah, such a great channel, occupy the oceans! [16:56]
Framedragger: channel for anxiety, i mean [16:56]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as if the greeks were alone in 'the party will end' [16:57]
asciilifeform: just about everybody, from aztec to viking [16:57]
mircea_popescu: this is what i said. or tried to. [16:57]
Framedragger: yeah, i guess it's a about the general point anyway. with not much particular matter left [16:58]
mircea_popescu: whatever, they're too fucking smart and in charge of things and matters to be catholics like "those beasts" of "the dark ages". too busy getting "just the facts" and "drawing their own conclusions" so as to be polytheistic dorks like the aztecs, the harappan, and whatever other tribes forgotten through disuse. [16:59]
mircea_popescu: they're gonna sacrifice preet bharara's arsehole to maintain the sun's power levels. [17:00]
mircea_popescu: (speaking of which, the harappan steatites remain undeciphered -- not that people've not tried.) [17:04]
mircea_popescu: all hail diagrams! [17:04]
asciilifeform: hieroglyphs [17:04]
mircea_popescu: no, quite actual diagrams. [17:04]
asciilifeform: dirty thinking dun do the argument any good. [17:04]
asciilifeform: if i can't tell wtf it is by looking at it, it ain't a diagram. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: << example of 2nd millenia bc slide. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: you can say "Wtf it is" but not what it's supposed to mean. [17:05]
asciilifeform: i was half-convinced it'd be the infamous 'egyptian light bulb' [17:06]
mircea_popescu: no, these lived in india. [17:06]
mircea_popescu: fair to say no contact with egypt whatsoever. [17:06]
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu has a point -- it's exactly a powerpoint slide [17:06]
mircea_popescu: right. [17:07]
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a whole pile, google image search for "harappan steatite" returns more than i knew / ever saw, so. [17:08]
mircea_popescu: come rto think of it, the strange love story between engineers and "diagrams - magical notation that works by itself!!! pity this never occured to anyone before!!!" produced lulzy shit like [17:30]
asciilifeform: that ain't a diagram [17:30]
mircea_popescu: orly ? [17:30]
asciilifeform: it's a hieroglyph. [17:30]
mircea_popescu: how can you tell ? [17:30]
asciilifeform: because it's indecipherable liquishit. [17:32]
trinque: *to you* [17:32]
trinque: because of what's already in your head, or not [17:32]
asciilifeform: well yes. [17:32]
mircea_popescu: lol. the poor aliens, you know. [17:32]
trinque: oh look, I think they talk through those hoses in front, and only the hose-bearing ones talk. [17:33]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the dorks ("scientists! scientific method! just the data! own determination!!1") involved had a whole story of how it's supposed to be universally meaningful. [17:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was nothing whatsoever scientific in the process that produced that idiocy. [17:33]
mircea_popescu: even more entertaining in context than the finishbed product [17:34]
mircea_popescu: which observation IS A SAD COMMENT on the whole problem, recursively! [17:34]
asciilifeform: or , for that matter, the one that posed the question which led to its production. [17:34]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i was discussing claims. [17:34]
asciilifeform: it's a plainly religious artifact. [17:34]
asciilifeform: ( and unsurprisingly resembles much earlier artifacts ) [17:34]
mircea_popescu: well yes, in being a diagram, it's meaningless and therefore "a religious artefact" [17:34]
mircea_popescu: you know this is what we say, about all the diagrams of extinguished authorities ? [17:35]
mircea_popescu: every queen in the valley of queens was buried with a shelf full of religious artefacts [17:35]
mircea_popescu: lemme find some such for you. [17:35]
asciilifeform: we also say it re the alphabets of extinguished authorities. [17:35]
asciilifeform: (linear-a etc) [17:35]
asciilifeform: you don't finesse the extinguished-decoder problem by using different encoding. [17:35]
mircea_popescu: well apparently i never published the dildos in question. anyway. [17:38]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but no, greek alphabet and most of greek text extant is understandable. and understood. that dutch can't be arsed is neither here nor there. [17:39]
asciilifeform: wasn't whole mega-shocker of the thread, that it was NOT translateable to any language that dutch knows ? [17:39]
asciilifeform: ( unrelatedly : << ideal soldier ! ) [17:40]
mircea_popescu: nope. similarly pint of oil can't be fit in any prepuce any man carries. what's one to do ? [17:40]
mircea_popescu: get bigger foreskins ? or stop trying to store oil in foreskin ? [17:41]
mircea_popescu: for the same money you might complain tail recursion can't be explained in any language hn speaks. hurr durr, let them fucking learn languages first. [17:41]
asciilifeform: but on the contrary , it can be -- i can write scheme interp in , e.g., basic, and it gets explained. [17:42]
mircea_popescu: i think your notion of "to explain" may have a lot in common with your notion of "diagram". [17:43]
mircea_popescu: and, while at it, let us also point out that i not being the living authority on explaining aristotle to people, my failure to explain to any specified group is not the mother of all proofs. [17:45]
asciilifeform: one of the painful parts of explanation is that failure proves nothing, beyond that particular failure. [17:46]
mircea_popescu: i also tried to explain shakespeare and bit a steel girder. [17:46]
mircea_popescu: (for the record, since apparently dictionaries are as shitty as always - no, prepuce is not "technical term for foreskin". it is technical term for the space between foreskin and the glans similarily, it is not the skin surrouinding the clitoris, ie clitoral hood, but the fold between the two.) [17:48]
asciilifeform: and iirc mikado is not the emperor but the space between his doors. [17:49]
mircea_popescu: wait, wut! [17:50]
asciilifeform: aha! [17:50]
mircea_popescu: it's a meaningful distinction, if i say "in the prepuce" i dun mean injected into the foreskin ffs. [17:51]
asciilifeform: it made sense. [17:51]
mircea_popescu: aite. [17:51]
asciilifeform: ( unrelatedly, heathen pit aficionados : is an accurate description of the demise of 'voat' ? ) [17:52]
ben_vulpes: in other grade a plagiarisms: [17:54]
ben_vulpes: i like the subtle satire. really makes it. [17:55]
ben_vulpes: vim or nano! your choice! [17:55]
mircea_popescu: voat demised ? [17:56]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can't possibly be, item is from 2015. [17:56]
asciilifeform: it's technically alive [17:57]
asciilifeform: but failed to nuke reddit et al. [17:57]
mircea_popescu: in what sense ? [17:57]
trinque: ben_vulpes: I dunno man I think he's serious. just look at his shithub activity graph [17:57]
asciilifeform: which was (iirc) its purpose. [17:57]
mircea_popescu: cuz you personally keep clicking reddit bookmark or ? [17:57]
mircea_popescu: anywya, im not reading this pile of garbage but from the skimming -- the whole argument is born of ignorance. reddit got its start as a heaven for child porn peddlers who got banned on digg. [17:59]
asciilifeform: decss peddlers [17:59]
mircea_popescu: other than that, the whole thing is "ra ra, america!!" [17:59]
mircea_popescu: as if anyone gives a flying fuck what difficulties middle eastern dorks have in going naked down the street. [17:59]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform in particular has ~nfi, but noticed continued pulsation of reddit crapola in the #t l0gz, whereas voat eventually was forgotten. [18:00]
asciilifeform: hence the q. [18:00]
mircea_popescu: !#s "" [18:00]
a111: 3 results for "\"\"", [18:00]
mircea_popescu: !#s "" [18:00]
a111: 1788 results for "\"\"", [18:00]
mircea_popescu: heh [18:00]
mircea_popescu: i guess. [18:01]
a111: Logged on 2016-06-27 04:35 naughtygirl: [18:01]
mircea_popescu: anwyay, there's a half dozen ppl keep linking reddit. if they switched to linking 8chan or whatever, it'd be that. [18:02]
mircea_popescu: dunno how relevant this is, but anywayz. [18:02]
BingoBoingo: !#s "" [18:02]
a111: 56 results for "\"\"", [18:02]
mircea_popescu: oh [18:03]
mircea_popescu: my bad. [18:03]
BingoBoingo: One of those sorta near terminal marketing problems [18:03]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes trinque i do think the dude is actually serious. [18:04]
mircea_popescu: wtf is "balsamiq" omfg it never ends with these idiots trying to make money by doing each other's laundry. [18:05]
mircea_popescu: [18:06]
trinque: this kid is "no am civilize" dubai edition, apparently. [18:06]
trinque: << oh man, these people really dealt with the devil selling us oil, didn't they. [18:09]
mircea_popescu: lol [18:10]
mircea_popescu: should i be concerned that the pure brilliance factory failed to allign the script with the math symbols ? [18:12]
mircea_popescu: also, what's the asciilifeform 's meter say ? hyeroglyphs ? diagrams ? [18:12]
mircea_popescu: "you + hot soup + 1980s walkman headset + zoloft = pure brilliance" ? [18:13]
ben_vulpes: trinque: oh he hasta be serious, i'm making a joke. [18:13]
mircea_popescu: "Mockups is zenware, meaning that it will help you get "in the zone", and stay there. Our aim is for you to forget our software is there at all." [18:14]
mircea_popescu: "Your whole team can come together around the right design using Mockups. It's so easy to learn, both clients and customers can use it (for free even), to describe their needs more clearly." [because they are illiterate, and even if they aren't -- can rely on the requisite critical mass of literacy never being reached] [18:15]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: when did it become acceptable for camhos to show panty lines? [18:15]
mircea_popescu: i have nfi. [18:15]
mircea_popescu: i thought camhoes = anything goes \ [18:15]
ben_vulpes: "there are no rules! anything goes! there's no logical explanation for this...discombooberation..." [18:16]
mircea_popescu: <<< first item. "no one [knows how to] read [anymore]" [18:16]
ben_vulpes: "her him! has! got to be you!" [18:17]
mircea_popescu: anyway, this item is a fine fucking example of very, very sad slavegirls wasting their time "making a product" instead of dedicating those years to worship. [18:17]
mircea_popescu: "Letting you specify behaviors and click-actions would inevitably turn Mockups into a much more complex tool, which is a terrible thing for us: if we want to continue to be the in-between tool, Mockups needs to be extremely quick to learn so that every stakeholder can have their say with an equal playing field." << check it out, they even got the "level playing field" thing. what was the sf thing with the dumbing devices ? [18:19]
mircea_popescu: "I have a man-crush on whoever built it. So freaking good. — Jeremy Toeman, President & Founder, Dijit Media" the cool thing is they link. ima now examine a whole pile of these. [18:21]
mircea_popescu: © 2008-2017 Balsamiq Studios, LLC holy hell. 2008 ?! nfw ?! [18:22]
mircea_popescu: o guess what! is for sale. the domain i mean. in case anyone feels like filling in some forms. perhaps with balsamic. [18:23]
mircea_popescu: connectsolutions got aquihired by aaski (usg front, recently got 1bn in pork for unspecified services. primo target for some data liberation, as it happens.) [18:24]
mircea_popescu: "Tinton Falls, NJ April 21, 2017 — AASKI Technology, Inc. is pleased to announce that we are one of three Defense companies to win a prime contractor position on a potential five-year, $900 million contract for field support and technical services to the U.S. Army‘s Project Management Office, Unmanned Aircraft Systems (PM UAS)." etc. [18:25]
mircea_popescu: “We are very excited about this win,” said Bharat Parikh, CEO, AASKI Technology. [18:25]
ben_vulpes: i have seen this before, the continentals holding posts in usg bezzletrons, and i don't quite get how it makes sense. "we all went to hahvahd biz skool for credential washing to operate scammatronz", maybe? [18:28]
Framedragger: filled out a form. my proposed mega charitable $25 bid will probably go unnoticed, tho :( [18:28]
Framedragger: maybe if we all bid in $1 increments they will see real value$$$ [18:28]
mircea_popescu: maybe. [18:29]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes recall the pharma wiz kid ? the one they dekulakized for "how dare you buy things and then raise price on them" [18:29]
ben_vulpes: yeah? [18:30]
mircea_popescu: << irresistible title. [18:30]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes seems there's a lot of pressure to succeed at scamming in the us for indian boys. [18:30]
Framedragger: << ah shit, bad encoding problems on my loggotron end again. fwiw first attempt is utf-8, then latin-1. hmz. [18:30]
scriba: Logged on 2017-05-15: [22:25:40] <mircea_popescu> “We are very excited about this win,” said Bharat Parikh, CEO, AASKI Technology. [18:30]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger try diagrams. [18:30]
Framedragger: ah shit, i thought i forgot something. just need to reconstruct unicode from hydrogen atom first principles [18:31]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: hm [18:32]
Framedragger: this will produce barf reactions, but re. that pioneer plate, hmm... yeah it's horribru, but the pulsar period lines (iirc?) - it's completely hogwash, right? the human figures are, sure [18:36]
mircea_popescu: "Somewhat fortunately Balsamiq was too successful for that, and Giacomo was forced to hire more and more people. Balsamiq is now being built by 25 members, who service around 0.5M customers and manage 10,000 new transactions a month. All of it generating about $7M a year." << this is actually a model-run business. had nfi mp-style even exists in fiat world, but lo and behold. took 10 years to get to 7mn a year, sustainably. [18:36]
Framedragger: *NOT completely hogwash, i meant, sorry [18:36]
mircea_popescu: in what sense, Framedragger ? [18:36]
mircea_popescu: sure, for life forms that intuitively understand length to stand for energy, period, whatever. is this universally true ? maybe it is, sure. for that matter, maybe [18:37]
Framedragger: pulsars are kinda loud on teh spectrum. the visual representations (marks on the lines) can be mapped to relative pulsar periods in a straightforward fashion. [18:37]
mircea_popescu: (tldr -- alien i ran into knew what latin is, they had it too. latin language universal invariant. hurr.) [18:37]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the meaning of "straightforward" being ? [18:38]
Framedragger: yeahyeah, circular notion, i know. [18:38]
mircea_popescu: ie, suppose aliens are crabs. [18:38]
Framedragger: it is qualitatively less stupid than printing a fucking human figure on the plate. [18:38]
Framedragger: pulsars are more visible than latin, is what i meant [18:39]
mircea_popescu: maybe they are. [18:40]
Framedragger: sure, if you argue for (if that's the term) ultimate epistemological relativism, crabs in water, then whatever. but we don't intend crabs to intercept a space vessel anyway [18:40]
Framedragger: but yeah, not much to it i guess [18:40]
mircea_popescu: the whole amusement was re "diagrams" [18:40]
asciilifeform: << shkrelli [18:41]
a111: Logged on 2017-05-15 22:29 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes recall the pharma wiz kid ? the one they dekulakized for "how dare you buy things and then raise price on them" [18:41]
asciilifeform: and 0 sympathy -- lived by usg intellectualproperty racket, died by it. [18:41]
Framedragger: the pulsar part i think would count as asciilifeformic diagram, maybe. but just that, and only just [18:41]
Framedragger: s/would/could/ [18:42]
mircea_popescu: sure, not matter of sympathy. matter of -- just like the egyptian kids sit in luxor center for businessmen trying to find old dizzy cow with social security payments to build them a tourist trap, just so perhaps indian kids sit in indian cafe, trying to get usg tendrils trapped. [18:42]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: feynman, iirc it was, had a piece re the trickiness of using stellar bodies as 'talk to martians' reference, when you have nfi even which way the martian's display scans [18:42]
mircea_popescu: ^ [18:42]
mircea_popescu: "everyone understands the number 4" [18:42]
Framedragger: yeah quite a few assumptions re triangulation, hm [18:43]
Framedragger: sure [18:43]
mircea_popescu: "sure, and as anything they want to! there's a fortran for that." [18:43]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: do you even have a sympathy gland? [18:43]
mircea_popescu: Framedragger so basically what you did was, you moved the discussion from where it was obviously stupid, to where it was not obviously stupid (to you), and needs feynman to explain what and werefore. [18:43]
Framedragger: well! [18:43]
mircea_popescu: this is ~identical to person who reads article in nature, in his field, pukes, then goes on to take next story seriously. [18:44]
mircea_popescu: well... how about drop of stupid invalidates item ? [18:44]
Framedragger: *i* got a reference to a nice piece by feynman. it was also mentioned on the forum logs. booyah! [18:44]
Framedragger: no yeah i'm quite terrible here [18:44]
trinque: !~bash 2 [18:44]
jhvh1: Last 2 lines bashed and pending publication [18:44]
Framedragger: ty ty [18:46]
trinque: all the more terrible and uninviting a universe if there aren't elsewhere salt water sacks whose symbols we could hope to grok? [18:46]
trinque: appears yet another psychological defense [18:47]
Framedragger: everything is a defense mechanism eh... maybe it is [18:47]
trinque: not at all. but anything that renders the other familiar too easily.. sure smells like one [18:48]
* Framedragger recommends egan's "wang's carpets", to contribute, in all seriousness. (later incorporated as a chapter in his "diaspora", asciilifeform will know) [18:48]
Framedragger: re. "not salt sacks! cellular automata in large sugar molecules!" (pretty neat, truly) [18:49]
trinque: he's done several sorts of weirdo incomrehensible aliens [18:49]
Framedragger: yeah i need to read his short story collections in full, he tends to be better at short stories anyway [18:50]
* Framedragger checks the java filled homepage, damn moar books to read. that is nice [18:52]
mircea_popescu: the more i read about this balsamiq guy, the more i like him. [19:17]
mircea_popescu: and in other street fare, [19:23]
mircea_popescu: oh, and in other "inseguridad en argentina" news, [19:29]
BingoBoingo: In other shitware, oil filters reviewed with hacksaw [19:47]
shinohai: seriously? I haz removed oil filters w/ screwdriver but that's just .... [19:53]
shinohai: Oh sorry *reviewed [19:53]
shinohai: Bonus points for Honeywell mfg [19:53]
mod6: evenin' [21:13]
asciilifeform: hiya mod6 [21:14]
mod6: how goes? [21:14]
asciilifeform: slowly and painfully [21:14]
mod6: i hear ya. [21:14]
mod6: workin on ada stuff? [21:14]
asciilifeform: 0 useful docs anywhere on division in constant time [21:14]
asciilifeform: grunting it out from scratch [21:14]
mod6: ahh. ok. yah, i suppose it requires a bunch of on-paper - try it yourself until blue in face. [21:15]
asciilifeform: worse than that, because it has to be proven to actually work [21:15]
asciilifeform: as opposed to 'worked on the 1,001 cases i came up with' [21:15]
mod6: ah [21:16]
asciilifeform: it boggles my mind that i gotta do this, rather than there being where to crib. [21:20]
asciilifeform: because this is screamingly elementary piece. [21:20]
mircea_popescu: hey, at least you don't have to scroll horizontally. [21:32]
mod6: haha [21:33]
mircea_popescu: >D [21:33]
* mod6 falls over [21:33]
asciilifeform: and hey, dun have to hang upside-down, like odin!111 [21:33]
mircea_popescu: as the one, the only, the forever carlin said, "the man himself was philosophical about it : it's that much less skin to wash." [21:33]
asciilifeform: << see also. [21:34]
a111: Logged on 2014-09-18 19:37 asciilifeform: 'happy is the man who has one leg, one sock doesn't tear, one boot isn't needed.' [21:34]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in officeware, [21:34]
asciilifeform: in other near-term lulz, a 'pbot' is in the worx, so that folx can play with various input->output pairs in-chan [21:36]
mod6: ah, neat [21:36]
shinohai: implying asciilifeform actually codes in perl [21:37]
mircea_popescu: nice. [21:37]
asciilifeform: given line length limit, it will be of limited practical use strictly educational. [21:37]
mircea_popescu: i imagine he's gonna use trinque's tree [21:37]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can have it return pastes. [21:37]
asciilifeform: that'd defeat entire purpose [21:37]
asciilifeform: which is to have the ins AND outs in-conversation. [21:38]
asciilifeform: in clickless dialogue. [21:38]
mod6: are you looking at some variant of mult reduction? [21:41]
asciilifeform: mod6: not even yet [21:41]
mod6: or something like SRT with a lookup table? [21:41]
asciilifeform: only constant-time shift-and-subtract division [21:41]
asciilifeform: no tables. [21:42]
asciilifeform: period. anywhere. they are banned. [21:42]
mod6: aha. [21:42]
asciilifeform: no if-statements, either. [21:42]
asciilifeform: basic principle of constant-time proggy [21:42]
mod6: cool. that's good anyway, we don't need revenge of the floating-point bug. [21:42]
asciilifeform: same instructions gotta execute no matter what bits are set or not set in the operands. every time. [21:42]
asciilifeform: sorta elementary. [21:42]
asciilifeform: ideally we would also be doing all arithmetic ops on a cpu that executes both the op and its exact register-wise bitcomplement [21:43]
asciilifeform: but sadly i don't have one. [21:43]
asciilifeform: ( and so, conceivably adding 0 + 0 radiates something different from ff + ff . ) [21:44]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes well, 250 digit numbers then [21:44]
asciilifeform: all numbers have W digits. [21:45]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in principle you could just do mirror ops of all things anywya neh ? [21:45]
asciilifeform: not same thing [21:45]
asciilifeform: they gotta happen ~simultaneously~ [21:45]
mircea_popescu: use two cores. [21:46]
asciilifeform: pc (even multi-processor pc) doesn't give it to you [21:46]
asciilifeform: because pipelines. [21:46]
mircea_popescu: myeah. [21:46]
asciilifeform: ( and you certainly could not do it under any such thing as an os, even if there were no pipeline. ) [21:47]
asciilifeform: on chip level, a non-radiating ALU is quite trivial to make, however [21:48]
mircea_popescu: obviously, you just build a mirror. [21:48]
asciilifeform: in each place where you would otherwise have 1 bit register, you instead have 2 [21:48]
asciilifeform: aha [21:48]
asciilifeform: so 1 is now 10, 0 is 01. [21:48]
asciilifeform: ( or opposite, dun matter. ) [21:49]
asciilifeform: you also now get carryless adders, for phree. [21:49]
mircea_popescu: aha. principal advantage. [21:49]
asciilifeform: if i were drawing up such a thing, i'd even have the sram work in such a way that 10 is a 1 on odd clock cycles, 0 on even [21:51]
asciilifeform: this'd annihilate such a thing as ram remanance [21:51]
asciilifeform: (iirc discussed in ancient thread, this method. afaik no one has ever used it, publicly.) [21:52]
mircea_popescu: aha. [21:52]
asciilifeform: pretty easy to implement, also. just make the flip-flop that forms sram cell, connected to clock. [21:53]
asciilifeform: now you store bit as ~phase~ of the square wave, rather than absolute steady state of the flipflop. [21:53]
asciilifeform: theoretically power draw of this device will be exactly the same , at all times, as if it were resistive load [21:54]
asciilifeform: because same number of transitions on every clock cycle, regardless of what it is doing. [21:54]
asciilifeform: for bonus 'ourdemocracy' decapitation, bake it out of ECL logic [21:55]
asciilifeform: where transistor is run on razor's edge of saturation at all times [21:55]
mircea_popescu: certainly worth prototyping at the least. [21:56]
asciilifeform: sadly not prototype-able at reasonable cost afaik. [21:57]
asciilifeform: ( you can't do it on fpga. ) [21:57]
mod6: do i follow if i store 10 on rising-edge for odd, and 01 at the same time for falling edge even? [21:57]
mircea_popescu: every piece of shit intel crapware was prototyped. reasonable cost is an entirely conventional notion. malia obama gets to keep her head for another month, how's that for reasonable. [21:57]
asciilifeform: mod6: it simply means that you store a bit as ~phase~ [21:58]
mod6: yeah, just was trying to grasp that concept. [21:59]
asciilifeform: so, e.g., 010101010101.... is a 0, and on this same machine, in parallel time, 10101010101... is a 1 [21:59]
asciilifeform: for the purpose of arithmetic [21:59]
mod6: ah. gotcha. [21:59]
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ( you can't do it on fpga. ) << needs actual crystal? [22:00]
asciilifeform: mod6: needs transistor-level layout. [22:00]
mircea_popescu: mod6 basically, a digital machine has no real reason to store a 1 as a 1 rather than any other arbitrary time-pattern [22:00]
mircea_popescu: historical convention no more. [22:01]
mircea_popescu: storing data xor bus cycle in particular is ~free. [22:02]
mircea_popescu: and talking of nigger spawn, [22:02]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'reasonable cost' in this context is ' asciilifeform's experimentation budget.' which presently does not stretch to ic fab. [22:02]
mod6: ah. thanks for the input. this is interesting. [22:03]
mircea_popescu: there is that. [22:03]
mircea_popescu: it wasn't done originally because it'd have made core dumps much less readable. [22:03]
mod6: asciilifeform: someday. [22:03]
mircea_popescu: but ~nobody reads them anyway. [22:03]
asciilifeform: ( we had, some time last year, a thread, where asciilifeform learns that a number of 'crackpot' fabs will make you a few dozen dies for the cost of a toyota, rather than aston-martin. but various problems remain -- it typically takes 5 or 6 rounds and they want nda, and the use of winblowz liquishitware tools, etc, and extensive hand-holding ) [22:04]
asciilifeform: it isn't really much like getting, e.g., circuit boards, made. [22:04]
mod6: maybe someday nsa makes it's own mgft plant/process, etc. [22:05]
asciilifeform: market of idiots is not exactly busting down the door to buy sane hardware. [22:06]
asciilifeform: at this time. [22:06]
mod6: for now. [22:06]
mircea_popescu: eh, young lenin was also poor. [22:06]
mod6: later, they come. [22:06]
mod6: speaking of which, i have new results to post. [22:07]
* asciilifeform brb [22:07]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the whipping post, [22:11]
mod6: Here's the results from the first entropy collection of FG #5: [22:13]
mod6: interesting this time. collected ~1.5Gb. All tests passed the dieharder. [22:13]
mod6: I'm pretty sure that's the first time. But will do follow up analysis after 3rd run against this 5th FG> [22:14]
mircea_popescu: ha! nice. [22:14]
mod6: yah,thanks! this is awesome ftr. having fun doing it. [22:15]
mircea_popescu: yeah lol [22:15]
asciilifeform: neato mod6 [23:18]
asciilifeform: mod6: incidentally didja ever get a chance to read fg.v ? [23:18]
asciilifeform: did it make sense to you, how and why the thing worx. [23:18]
mod6: i've read through it ~twice. so far, it makes sense to me, but I need a more careful going-through. part of why I'm learning verilog. [23:33]
mod6: stuff is impressive [23:41]
mircea_popescu: by the time you're done with logs, you'll have like 5 diff careers mod6 [23:42]
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, qualcomm-apple battle heats up. iphone 8 might be banned from us market &c [23:43]
mod6: mircea_popescu: aha, im getting an education. trying to relentlessly get better/learthese disciplines [23:44]
mod6: *learn these [23:44]
mircea_popescu: on the upside, really can't be fired anymore. [23:45]
trinque: << h-town heard the republic, is making poverty illegal inch by inch. [23:45]
mod6: altogether, i'm trying to stay focused on trb too. and learn these other topics as I go. [23:45]
mircea_popescu: o.O [23:46]
mod6: some of the topics reach far and wide. gotta stay on task. but always will try to pick up what I can, where I can. [23:46]
mircea_popescu: sounds like the plan! [23:46]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> on the upside, really can't be fired anymore. << probably not. i don't worry about it. if one door closes, another opens. besides, someday not too far off, this will be the thing. [23:49]
mircea_popescu: trinque teens also can't take gf into woods to fuck her intensively no mo ? [23:49]
mod6: i've always wanted to do my best, or be as good as I can be at something that interested me. im not as smart or as clever as many, but I put in the work. i find that putting in the work pays dividends later. [23:52]
trinque: no woods to speak of inside city limits [23:52]
trinque: plenty of woods with camping outside, which is where anybody camping does. [23:52]
mircea_popescu: apple story being apple got ftc to sue the chinos, ftc got lapdogs (intel, samsung) to join in. the chinos might actually slap an ic export ban on us. [23:53]
trinque: this is highway barnacle removal [23:53]
mircea_popescu: ah ah [23:53]
mod6: heh 'highway barnacle' [23:53]
mircea_popescu: should be interesting to see if china permits qualcomm be ie japan'd. [23:55]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 16:10 mircea_popescu: (basically, long story short, usg financed a coupla units in georgia and ncarolina with japan's money, ain't giving it back. loss is whatever you want it to be, 3 to 10 bn) [23:55]
mircea_popescu: mod6 i find that the people putting in the work end up actually being the smarter among the many. [23:58]
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