Forum logs for 06 Jul 2019
| diana_coman: | http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-05-jul-2019#2542892 -> in my experience Paris was closest to this i.e. wherever one was, walking < 5 minutes gets one to a tube station | [01:56] |
| a111: | Logged on 2019-07-05 22:18 mp_en_viaje: i'd just make a grid, every mile a line each way. | [01:56] |
| diana_coman: | I think it was one X with some concentric circles + north-south and east-west lines but I never really studies the map in a lot of detail | [01:58] |
| diana_coman: | the striking difference re bucharest esp was simply that tube in Bucharest is /was clearly made for medium-long distance, a "cross the gridlocked centre" sort of thing while the one in Paris was to a large extent for short distance (or at least most lines i.e. there are some, fewer "express" lines) | [02:01] |
| diana_coman: | the one in Minsk (as in St Petersburg so I put it on -> Russian) was a. deeper (doubling as nuclear shelter?) b. accelerating for all it was worth (so more likely long-distance idea) | [02:04] |
| spyked: | http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-05#1921771 <-- it's how html templating/pre-processing usually works, you embed one language into the other. php is perl (or whatever) interleaved with html cl-who is very similar, only without the leaky abstractions, i.e. html trees are represented as s-exprs and can be correctly manipulated as such | [02:57] |
| a111: | Logged on 2019-07-05 18:10 mp_en_viaje: spyked, http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/095-cl-who-ii.html#selection-207.23-207.57 << is this even a good idea ? why would you want to interleave lisp and html ? how the fuck is anyone gonna debug the salad ? | [02:57] |
| mp_en_viaje: | spyked, i don' t think i've ever seen php that generates html that is interpreted as php that spits out html. | [02:59] |
| mp_en_viaje: | maybe i misunderstand what you're saying but imo php and perl have little functionally to do with each other, people identify them through their disdain, and by "people" i mean people whose locus is bash. the people whose locus is excel/virtual basic or w/e don't. | [03:01] |
| mp_en_viaje: | diana_coman, yeah, paris metro is pretty cool. sadly the city around it fell apart, but what can you do. | [03:01] |
| mp_en_viaje: | anyway, re deep you should see the latest lines in budapest. the escalators give out dizzyspells. | [03:02] |
| spyked: | mp_en_viaje, the lisp-in-html-in-lisp... occurs at macroexpansion time. the result is Lisp code that takes input and outputs html. human operator's main job is to distinguish which part of the template is html, and which does mechanical work (e.g. taking rows from a db and putting them into page) | [03:04] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i think the problem here is mostly that i have nfi what i'm talking about. | [03:05] |
| mp_en_viaje: | carry on unconcernedly i shall bumble in your general direction later about it. | [03:06] |
| mp_en_viaje: | !!up itsiku | [03:08] |
| deedbot: | itsiku voiced for 30 minutes. | [03:08] |
| mp_en_viaje: | and who might you be ? | [03:08] |
| mp_en_viaje: | meanwhile in 2013 lulz, http://trilema.com/2013/ycombinator-continues-to-suck-jointly-and-severally/ | [03:09] |
| mp_en_viaje: | did that kiss of death of a pompous piece of shit ever come up with something ? forget about "coinlab not launching any product". has graham's derpy scam launched anything in the 5 or so years since anyone even looked to laugh at them ? | [03:10] |
| spyked: | mp_en_viaje, I'm confusing some things in my explanation, namely html (as outputted by that coad) and the S-expr-html representation in cl-who. the two are separate, and this meta-embedded is done with the latter and is used to separate code macro-processed by cl-who from code that executes when the page is generated. | [03:11] |
| spyked: | *meta-embedding | [03:12] |
| mp_en_viaje: | so basically you split the www server processing into two phases, pre-processing and post-processing (time0 being the client call) | [03:13] |
| spyked: | i think it's safer to say that cl-who is a compiler from a particular set of s-expr into html. and looking at my (yet-again convoluted!) explanation, I can now distinctly remember that most debugging issues I've had were caused by not understanding the language. | [03:17] |
| spyked: | http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/goXZ4/?raw=true <-- macroexpanded "hello world" example of cl-who. the second coad is what's executed when generating page the first is what I have to write. the second indeed looks like salad to untrained eye, but otherwise maps 100% to cl-who constructs | [03:25] |
| mp_en_viaje: | anyway, the obvious question (from the php-mind) re the split would be "why", buttressed by the observation that "if you're gonna do any page processing at all, you wanna start after all the symbols you can possibly want to use have resolved. this is why php ~starts~ work on a pile of code AFTER things such as "calling user ip" is a known quantity : so you don't end up with two phases, one of which being stuck with undefined symbols the 2nd will | [03:25] |
| mp_en_viaje: | have defined. | [03:25] |
| mp_en_viaje: | and the obvious answer is "because they are SO FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT, it's worth one's time". which is obvious to the familiar mind, but probably a significant bar towards getting a php-er to think lisp may be interesting. | [03:25] |
| mp_en_viaje: | rather than "just some dumb shit oversmart grad students use to fuck themselves with". | [03:26] |
| mp_en_viaje: | meanwhile, in rotaku interest items from the glorious days of 2012, http://trilema.com/2012/socialistii-cei-tristi/ | [03:28] |
| spyked: | mp_en_viaje, agreed re. server pre/post-processing split. prolly can be done in php too, but manually, or otherwise with significant work from author | [03:29] |
| mp_en_viaje: | hence my comment, "never seen this done" etc. | [03:29] |
| mp_en_viaje: | in a sense, this is the marketable strength of the whole approach, "you know what the difference is between your rural summer kitchen and my clean room operation ? this latter thing cleans itself kekekekex!!!" | [03:30] |
| mp_en_viaje: | (clean rooms "clean themselves" because air is maintained at positive pressure inside, so whatever particles aren't sucked into the filters get spilled out the doors etc. the whole trick is to not get them TOO dirty in the first place, which "too" starts at ppb [parts-per-billion] in some cases, hence all the funny shoe covers etc) | [03:31] |
| mp_en_viaje: | oh! and besides that time when "journalists translate spanish", that lulzy time (also in 2012) when "smart kids" did the boo boo on windows only, cuz "how will mp ever notice". lawd this was a fun spelunking session. | [03:36] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i had almost forgotten how spitefully retarded the romanian aspirational class actually is. i hope the usg zoo gets them all, i know of no worse set of shitheads on planet 3. | [03:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | <mp_en_viaje> did that kiss of death of a pompous piece of shit ever come up with something ? forget about "coinlab not launching any product". has graham's derpy scam launched anything in the 5 or so years since anyone even looked to laugh at them ? << As far as I can tell they keep whipping the same cows. Dropbox, less frequently and AirBnB all the time. | [04:34] |
| mp_en_viaje: | getting ready for a slashdot sale, i take it. | [04:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | Hard to say. Fuckers could be bottling unicorn farts. | [04:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | Election overview is baking, should come within the next 18 hours. Got stuck in a local rabbit hole. Pizarro statement to follow by end of the day Sunday. | [04:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | The particular election rabbit hole I've just about completely explored is how "book club" party with an uncontested internal managed ~50 kilovotes for recently fired former commander in chief Guido Manini Ríos Stratta whose only firm platform position seems to be no "reform" of the military retirement system and softer position declaring "Army on streets is good" | [04:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | The dig turns out otherwise empty Cabildo Abierto having been a shell started by pro-dictatorship faction of the old Colorado party trying to fork off the local reddit derps exemplified by identifies as NY trained economist guy. | [04:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | Which, fuck it. The Colorado Party brand in Uruguay is absolutely toxic in Uruguay as the Chile (Peppers or Pinochet) brand except among the 15% of the population that is ride or die Colorado because these fucks will track their resentments happily over 7+ generations | [04:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | So now there's a Talvi write notes for Uruguay's retirement plans to trade on wall street (as if) Colorado Party and Guido's "Guns look best with Chrome" Colorado Parties now sharing a 9/6% or 8/7% split of the vote in october. | [04:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | At the same time the local derps wonder why AP characterizes the Blanco Partido Nacional as merely center-right while their derpity-rose Colorados get classed as far right by the AP's English as third language speakers | [04:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-06#1921918 << This seems to be the problem of Uruguay and the rest of the aspiring to develop world.The dominant sector in the FA which will likely force a split are the Social Democrats/Democratic Socialists that have been to Miami and Spain yet aspire to emulate the Oslo they have never seen with their own eyes. | [04:59] |
| a111: | Logged on 2019-07-06 07:26 mp_en_viaje: rather than "just some dumb shit oversmart grad students use to fuck themselves with". | [04:59] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i confess i have nfi what youre saying. | [05:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's a notes dump that'll get clarified in a Uruguay dispatch. Inside baseball and all that stuff that would not matter to the world if we didn't have a rack parked here. | [05:04] |
| mp_en_viaje: | a ok | [05:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, before the Fat Forehead UniLeft coalition came to Power, Uruguay had two parties that mattered. The rural, nationalist blancos and the Urban, faggy, militant Colorados. I'd been following what happens with the Blancos because what they do is live. I'm catching up on the Colorado drama, because the only reason to take the speculum to old women is an earnest interest in being thorough. | [05:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | If they Navy and all four of their boats and Army with too many generals for half a division decide to do the coup thing... as fun as that might be, gotta lay out the facts of who would be laying out | [05:12] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, to be released: Blonde white women drama | [05:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | And dude talking from on high to ambiguously fire or not 4 folks and a couple is only the beginning of the local lulz here lit this week | [05:17] |
| mp_en_viaje: | nobody's gonna coup in uruguay, wth. | [05:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | Coup no, impotently take trash out of the dumpsters and place it in the street, yes. | [05:53] |
| spyked: | http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/095-cl-who-ii.html#fn4 <-- updated cl-who demo with mega-likbez on html generation mechanism using macros. | [05:59] |
| mp_en_viaje: | that, i can see. | [06:13] |
| feedbot: | http://trilema.com/2019/lets-continue-with-minsk/ << Trilema -- Let's continue with Minsk! | [06:17] |
| mp_en_viaje: | meanwhile continuing with the forgotten rolulz, the enobling detergent! | [06:24] |
| mp_en_viaje: | in other news, the locally sourced икра осетровая / альгиновая fucking delish. i love this country. | [08:36] |
| phf: | mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bTqFh/?raw=true | [09:35] |
| mp_en_viaje: | phf, plox use this key tho | [11:31] |
| feedbot: | http://bvt-trace.net/2019/07/todo-items-and-work-plan-jul2019/ << bvt's backtrace -- TODO Items and Work Plan (02.07.2019) | [12:06] |
| mp_en_viaje: | http://bvt-trace.net/2019/07/todo-items-and-work-plan-jul2019/comment-page-1/#comment-21 << 29 minutes. | [12:29] |
| mp_en_viaje: | agile eat your heart out. | [12:29] |
| bvt: | mp_en_viaje: ty for the comment i have to go afk now, so most likely vdiff fix will be out tomorrow 2nd half of the day. right now it is at http://bvt-trace.net/vpatches/vdiff_blockwise_read.vpatch (add .bvt.sig for the seal) | [13:08] |
| mp_en_viaje: | np | [13:08] |
| phf: | !!key mp_en_viaje | [13:29] |
| deedbot: | http://wot.deedbot.org/208FE107E970F53262C4951232992F13CFA6CD06.asc | [13:29] |
| phf: | mp_en_viaje: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7k9cJ/?raw=true | [13:31] |
| phf: | i thought i saw some discussion of using different key, but couldn't find it in the logs | [13:31] |
| phf: | http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-06#1921956 << you should replace the declare .. begin inside the inner loop with char_ptrs.increment | [13:43] |
| a111: | Logged on 2019-07-06 17:08 bvt: mp_en_viaje: ty for the comment i have to go afk now, so most likely vdiff fix will be out tomorrow 2nd half of the day. right now it is at http://bvt-trace.net/vpatches/vdiff_blockwise_read.vpatch (add .bvt.sig for the seal) | [13:43] |
| phf: | that will make it apparent that you're still walking Input in order, one by one, because right now offset/ptr combination make it seem like you might be stepping by more than 1 and taking slices | [13:44] |
| mp_en_viaje: | ty | [14:46] |
| mp_en_viaje: | phf, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WMlef/?raw=true | [14:51] |
| feedbot: | http://bingology.net/2019/07/07/uruguay-today-the-lefts-election-hangover-and-other-butthurt/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Uruguay Today: The Left's Election Hangover And Other Butthurt | [22:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | Meanwhile in Germany: https://archive.is/TfPqu | [22:31] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: well-known lulz -- germanic variant of http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/ | [22:51] |
| asciilifeform: | there's a sovok-flavoured variant also ( and stoked somewhat by the fact that sov passport is still theoretically valid in modern ru ) | [22:52] |
| * asciilifeform | wonders whether in current italy there are also 'reichsburger' , who demand to be dealt under proper roman law... | [22:55] |
| asciilifeform: | 'Die Bundesrepublik Deutschland sei kein souveräner Staat' << noshit. | [22:56] |
| asciilifeform: | ( gotta also wonder, do they still fly each newly-'elected' chancellor to washington for 'the talk' ? or does usg make house calls these days ? ) | [22:56] |
| asciilifeform: | extended ver., linked via BingoBoingo's lul >> 'Immer wieder versuchen Reichsbürger und Selbstverwalter, Behördenmitarbeiter bei Amtshandlungen zu fotografieren oder zu filmen sowie heimlich Tonaufnahmen anzufertigen ... ' | [23:05] |
| asciilifeform: | i.e. apparently in eureich , officials hold copyright on their mutterings? had nfi. | [23:06] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-06#1921950 << maybe my globe is broken, but on it belarussia is landlocked ? where is the local sturgeon from ?! | [23:10] |
| a111: | Logged on 2019-07-06 12:36 mp_en_viaje: in other news, the locally sourced икра осетровая / альгиновая fucking delish. i love this country. | [23:10] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: re uy election piece -- i'ma have to confess that it reads to me exactly like descriptions of footballism. i.e. massive pile of unbound symbols | [23:11] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl:meat | [23:12] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: That's how they organize, futbolisms | [23:28] |
Category: Logs
