Forum logs for 06 Jul 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
mod6: mornin' [05:03]
mod6: wb [08:48]
mircea_popescu: heya [08:48]
mod6: power situation any better? [08:49]
mircea_popescu: ah it wasn't the power, i have it set to disconnect at six in the morning deliberately. [08:49]
mod6: ah, i mean, where the girls were carrying up buckets of water? [08:50]
mircea_popescu: i think i even mentioned this in the logs at some point. perpetual connections are unsanitary. [08:50]
mod6: maybe i imagined that lol. [08:50]
mircea_popescu: ah, that was 3 hours, then [08:50]
mod6: ah. [08:50]
mircea_popescu: they got it back up same evening. (not universally, nicaragua was still without power the next day for instance) [08:50]
mod6: gotcha [08:51]
mircea_popescu: teh ticos (costa rican ethnonym) are actually very serious, dedicated people. like shorter, more pleasant californians let's say. the nicaraguans are dorks and the panamanians are all to a man this strange rendition of the frustrated shittier brother. [08:52]
mircea_popescu: dunno if you've ever seen this in practice, 2nd born with a huge boner/inferiority complex. [08:52]
mod6: ah, sure. [08:53]
mircea_popescu: but anyway, if costa rica enlarges its airport because it gets tons of traffic and it HAS TO, panama will built an even larger one!!!! which nobody really needs wants or uses. but THEY ARE BETTER DAMNIT [08:53]
mircea_popescu: poached the cr soccer coach, it's a thing [08:53]
mod6: heh, funny [08:55]
mod6: i didn't sleep a wink last night. [08:59]
mod6: so now im like... [08:59]
mod6: chugging coffee. [08:59]
mircea_popescu: why not ? [09:06]
mod6: i dunno. just one of those nights i guess. [09:06]
mircea_popescu: a [09:06]
mod6: can i also say that this whole lobbesbot thing is a pretty great model. does auctions, then he collects the fees (monthly?). [09:08]
mod6: oh quarterly, looks like. [09:12]
mircea_popescu: quarterly yea. [09:15]
mircea_popescu: very useful item also. [09:15]
mircea_popescu: the original plan was to tie in payments with deedbot payment system, and im sure that's how it'll work once that bit of infrastructure is ready. [09:16]
mod6: werd. very cool. [09:16]
mircea_popescu: then that can also handle deeding fees, and lo and behold, actual cryptoeconomy [09:16]
mod6: outstanding [09:29]
mircea_popescu: <D [09:30]
deedbot: << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), June 2017 Statement [09:35]
deedbot: [10:25]
phf: << “So far as the question I opened with is concerned — "If we tried to use our nukes, would they work?" — I'm guessing the answer is "probably not."” [10:50]
mircea_popescu: good thing mp is so wrong about things then!!!1 [10:50]
phf: right, corroborating point in logs [10:51]
mircea_popescu: but anyway, they'll work just as well as everything else in the empire of stupid works. did "ourembargo" work ? sure, in the sense shittington post wrote about how it will, and then promptly forgot it ever happened [10:51]
mircea_popescu: next issue of fiat paper will read Ourshit Dun Work instead of the racist/rapist in god we trust bit [10:52]
phf: (although from the same diary page, entry named "bitcoin bites" is just amusing) [10:52]
mircea_popescu: let me guess, rehash of original "stages" curtis yarvin "argument" ? [10:53]
phf: nah, a very naive, outsider "somebody gifted me bitcoin, i logged into coinbase recently and the whole experience is a piece of shit, so bitcoin, shmitcoin, whatever" [10:54]
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, very fundamentally libertard this "framing" approach, quintessentially what "progress" is all about. here's what happened, now let me hallucinate a string of pseudocauses and outcomes which you can believe in! [10:54]
mircea_popescu: phf i kept telling the naive early adopter noobs that gifting coin is fucking dumb. [10:54]
mircea_popescu: but by definition, naive early adopters have their own ideas. [10:55]
mircea_popescu: revisiting the above "progress" great lie of socialism : just as eg wikipedia parasithizes (see alf/naggum re how this works) the encyclopedia space, turning whatever it can steal into "wearenotbegging for donations", just like github tries to accrete "wild" work into something they can sell down the road to the bezzlevestor, just so school in the socialist state (as designed by trotsky, stealing from bismarck) works also on [11:08]
mircea_popescu: the same great lie fundamental to all socialism. [11:08]
mircea_popescu: "here's what happened, and here's our story of a string of causes which we call purposes" [11:08]
mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did. [11:09]
mircea_popescu: the replacement of causes with purposes in this sense is the ONLY point of "school" as the socialists do it. it's uninteresting to understand exactly what the theory of gravity is, says or does, or what a number is, or anything else of that kind [11:10]
asciilifeform: !!up fromloper [11:10]
deedbot: fromloper voiced for 30 minutes. [11:10]
asciilifeform: fromloper: who goes there ? [11:10]
mircea_popescu: what is important is for the kids to end up with the purposes idiocy implanted in their heads. and they do. which is how they end up thinking "modern medicine" has something to do with life expectancy changes. as opposed to sanitation. [11:11]
mircea_popescu: and which is how they end up with all the rest of the dumb shit. [11:11]
mircea_popescu: schooling for the purpose of convincing as many unexamining intellects as possible that "in the soviet union kids get icecream". if it takes putting the agitprop mechanism in the middle of the forest cuz that's where the peasants go... well, they'll mount it in a truck. [11:13]
mircea_popescu: and if it takes a little incidental mention of the history of thought, fine, just as long as it's a) safely bowdlerized into nonsense and b) really, incidental to the great story. [11:13]
mircea_popescu: in other words -- us schools don't work on purpose, not by accident. and like those, everything else, nukes, embargoes, name it. [11:14]
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf didja change something on tehl0gz www recently ? it no longer fits on my displays w/out horizontal scrolling, is a headache [11:21]
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [11:21]
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf nm, false alarm, problem was on my end [11:22]
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [11:22]
mircea_popescu: lel [11:25]
* asciilifeform has all sorts of custom strange in his local loop, and this has costs [11:26]
asciilifeform: << the bigger, imho, puzzler, is why they even bother to bring up newton [11:26]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did. [11:26]
asciilifeform: << this is implicit to any forced (i.e. for feeding to dullnormal children) linearization of history, which is at the very basic a vtree [11:27]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 15:08 mircea_popescu: "here's what happened, and here's our story of a string of causes which we call purposes" [11:27]
asciilifeform: dun even matter by whom, communists, priests, ameritards [11:28]
mircea_popescu: it's not for feeding the dullnormal, though. [11:45]
mircea_popescu: quite on the contrary. that can be a pretext, if you're willing to eat it. and if not -- others available. [11:45]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's for 'feeding' period. vtree is not fit for feeding to passive mouths, fella has to go out an' get it himself, i.e. the original concept of scholarship [11:47]
mircea_popescu: ever since the early seeds of socialism showed up in paris (not so coincidentally, where syphilis also comes from), it's been one great race to re-construct human thought into socialistardation. [11:47]
asciilifeform: 'public schooling' is certainly not about scholarship. [11:47]
mircea_popescu: yeah. it's not about anything besides "here's our socialist state, it is great and statal and socialist". absolutely nothing at all. [11:48]
asciilifeform: 'we are the greatest X, we are the greatest Y, nothing like us ever was' (tm)(r) [11:48]
mircea_popescu: "and here's the list of necessary steps that lead to it!" [11:48]
mircea_popescu: cunnigonde is ever so delighted. [11:48]
mircea_popescu: (ie, voltaire shows antibodies, infection was clearly present in his environment.) [11:49]
asciilifeform: infection was christianity. [12:09]
mircea_popescu: only post schism [12:09]
asciilifeform: ( witness how the early church bureaucrats passed off a vpress of the newtestament as 'the whole thing was always linear' ) [12:09]
mircea_popescu: anyway ima bbl [12:09]
shinohai: This is good for Microshit [12:54]
asciilifeform: << lulzily from same, 'math corner' , in re ye olde >> ( motherfucker makes his pgs unlinkable individually ) [12:55]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 14:50 phf: << “So far as the question I opened with is concerned — "If we tried to use our nukes, would they work?" — I'm guessing the answer is "probably not."” [12:55]
asciilifeform: 'You can't escape this garbage, even in the pages of respectable math journals. There are no safe spaces. We are doomed.' [12:56]
asciilifeform: in other crackpotteries, >> << claims to sell 'submersible yachts'. asciilifeform watched the ad film, horrified, thing has WINDOWS [13:08]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-21 15:10 mircea_popescu: rules to fucking live by, you know, "by the time you feel like you wanna live in a submarine, it's time to gtfo and find a better place." [13:08]
asciilifeform: and... ACRYLIC pressure hull. [13:09]
asciilifeform: didjaknow. [13:09]
asciilifeform: and... '2 x 1200 kW, Li-Ion-Batteries' ahahaha [13:09]
asciilifeform: in terms of separating moneyed idiots from the moolah -- this beats the 'chilean gulch' thing. [13:11]
asciilifeform: in sheer audacity. [13:11]
mod6: lol [13:41]
asciilifeform: abuse of units, incidentally, if this were an actual spec it would read 'kW/H' [13:44]
asciilifeform: quite obviously not proofread / no actual technical whatevers. involved in its making. [13:44]
mod6: smh [13:48]
BingoBoingo: [16:27]
asciilifeform: 'even if i run the real bitcoin node, my bitcoins price are going to crash. you can try to isolate yourself with that software, but the price is subjected to whats going on outside.' [16:31]
asciilifeform: gold [16:31]
asciilifeform: apparently asciilifeform has been Doing It All Wrong [16:31]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is more complicated. original church was very much republic, much like original us presidency. then the socialistards got roosevelt in and broke it. similarily to how empire meant something, before napoleon. [16:31]
asciilifeform: where do i download the client that makes usd exchange rate 1giga ??? [16:31]
mircea_popescu: the usual mo is this, very strictly antiauthoritarian, "we'll get our own schmuck emperor and then ruin the thing" [16:31]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, 'taiwanization' [16:31]
mircea_popescu: i suppose technically roosevelt broke the shattered remains left after monkeyboy lincoln, but still, general idea. [16:32]
asciilifeform: and lincoln broke what monkeyboy washington/hamilton left [16:32]
mircea_popescu: that part i'm not convinced of. [16:33]
mircea_popescu: who was the proper rep there, jefferson ? [16:33]
asciilifeform: him, and, iirc, gallatin [16:34]
mircea_popescu: i don't really see it. jefferson, for all his popularity, was intellectually ~nil. [16:34]
mircea_popescu: his "ideas" if you can call them that are all sorta broken. [16:35]
asciilifeform: j wasn't an 'idea man', no [16:37]
mircea_popescu: so then how can he rep [16:37]
asciilifeform: but more notable for what he ~wasn't~ doing [16:37]
asciilifeform: i.e. centralized megastate [16:37]
mircea_popescu: in this sense the washington monument was the proper government lol [16:37]
mircea_popescu: hamilton wasn't doping centralized megastate either. it's unclear what washington wass doing, as also not idea man, but probably ALSO not megastate judging by how if he were, he'd have been the king of united states literally. [16:38]
asciilifeform: consider also shay's and 'whiskey' rebellions [16:38]
mircea_popescu: what about them are we considering ? [16:38]
asciilifeform: shay's was the start of usg's long and happy tradition of not paying debts when it dun feel like [16:40]
asciilifeform: and, as side effect, put washington into presidency [16:40]
mircea_popescu: veterans not getting paid what they thought was fair is an absolute part of all war. [16:41]
mircea_popescu: this is the dark secret of gender disparity : after the deed's done, woman gets more than she expected, and man less. [16:41]
asciilifeform: veterans in debt/starvation is generally part of ~loser~'s side of war [16:41]
asciilifeform: not winner [16:41]
asciilifeform: as for whiskey rebellion -- that's when usg first switched to collecting tax forcibly, vs tmsr-style. buncha 'uppity' folx didn't 'get the memo', hanged a few tax collectors, massacred. [16:43]
mircea_popescu: now how is this relating to say hamilton in preference of say monroe ? [16:43]
asciilifeform: hamilton was 'washington's brain' [16:43]
mircea_popescu: recall (part of why i even republishedf that) -- hamilton was an original, and originally a lonely, voice in the "to spend -- you MUST first tax" camp. [16:44]
mircea_popescu: this is very weak. [16:44]
asciilifeform: ( w was a quasiliterate ) [16:44]
mircea_popescu: also, "tmsr style" may be a misnomer. the republic receiving tax from the lords voluntarily is one thing, but there's nowehre in statute or custom where it says lord can't grind into paste any subhuman peons it gets his hands on, to extract whatever he extracts. [16:45]
asciilifeform: at the risk of oversimplification -- washington & co were in favour of setting up 'an england' j & co -- 'an italy' [16:45]
mircea_popescu: leaving aside that "an italy" would have been utterly horrible, there's no significant difference between these in respects that interest us. neither wanted "a holy roman empire", and so... [16:46]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that'd be 'a lord', rather than 'a crown purportedly acting in the name of all lords' [16:46]
mircea_popescu: for the schmucks getting the sharp end of that stick, the difference will be negligible. [16:46]
asciilifeform: turns out -- not so negligible. nobody in pre-unifications europe paid anything like modern peasant's tax rate [16:47]
mircea_popescu: and "shoulda been in the forum a while back" will not parse to anything, either. [16:47]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and nobody had anything like modern peasant's productivity, either. [16:47]
asciilifeform: what's that to do with the theft rate ? [16:48]
mircea_popescu: here's thje thing. if your capital good worth 100 btc produces 1 btc a year and you pay real estate tax of 0.5% and no income tax, you're payinfg half your income each year. [16:49]
mircea_popescu: if your 100 btc capital good produces 1k btc a year, and you pay 1 bitcent in real estate tax and 50% income tax, you're paying... half your income each year, plus a bitcent. [16:50]
mircea_popescu: inflation works this. [16:50]
mircea_popescu: and yes they had re tax : to own a plot of land you produced knights. [16:50]
mircea_popescu: very carefully weighed and so on, since before 1k ad, too. [16:51]
asciilifeform: 'your 100 btc capital good produces 1k btc a year' << where does the + come from in this scenario ? [16:51]
asciilifeform: i dun get it [16:51]
asciilifeform: ( why would a $good that spews forth 1000, be valued at 100 ?? ) [16:51]
mircea_popescu: well, look at modern business. you throw up a bunch of vynil fresh off the boat, worth 40k if you're drunk that day, and call it a restaurant. then you expect revenue in the mn+ ayear. [16:51]
PeterL: how about a shovel, costs 10 bucks, but you can make 10 bucks an hour wielding it? [16:52]
asciilifeform: how's that to work, unless the thing is built on top of a petrowell, in the basement [16:52]
mircea_popescu: medieval time, you built, out of stone, a tiny shop, cost about a hundred million in today's fiats, and got custom worth... you kjnow, 200 bux a day. [16:52]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look into small business papers sometime ? waht can i tell yoiu, the bezzle's the bezzle, it's what it does. [16:52]
asciilifeform: PeterL: the system in question is not the shovel, but you+shovel, and it'd sell for >10bux on slavemarket [16:52]
mircea_popescu: it's why dorks like it, too. "wealth for everyone!" [16:52]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: smells of memoryleak [16:53]
asciilifeform: 'where is the + coming from' [16:53]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was discussing capital goods not labour. [16:53]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the + is coming oiut of the fed imaginary account, which is cvurrently still credited by china. [16:53]
mircea_popescu: anyway, PeterL has a solid point : you may think of whatever split between capital goods and labour, but fact is, at the time we are discussing the shovel owned oyu, not the other wayu around. if you owned a shovel you were god damned out there shoveling every day. [16:55]
mircea_popescu: none of this, "i have these toys in my shop, which i play with today". [16:55]
mircea_popescu: bitch, you had an harmonica you harmonicaed. [16:55]
mircea_popescu: ie, historically more yous was the only thing they actually knew how to make. so they did. so... not much of a problem. [16:58]
asciilifeform: << i'ma very curious nao, what mircea_popescu finds so horrible about the original disunified italies - y'know, the place that contained the original tmsr... [17:03]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 20:46 mircea_popescu: leaving aside that "an italy" would have been utterly horrible, there's no significant difference between these in respects that interest us. neither wanted "a holy roman empire", and so... [17:03]
* asciilifeform brb, tea [17:03]
mircea_popescu: the disunified italies contained the original argentina and no more. [17:03]
mircea_popescu: buncha uppity "students" sitting around coffee tables and being idea men. fuck them with the boot shaped peninsula. [17:04]
mircea_popescu: you can go to the acropolis right now, see the useless fucktarded greeks sitting around. ~same bs. [17:04]
mircea_popescu: !~google tiganiada [17:05]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Țiganiada - Wikisource: <> Tiganiada - Ion Budai Deleanu - YouTube: <> Tiganiada (Romanian Edition) (9786069830864): Ion ...: <> [17:05]
mircea_popescu: ^ very much recommend. better history of italy than any italian ever could write. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: for that matter, you can drink in tardstalk/reddit/what have you, have your fill. [17:07]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, venice (tmsr!), genoa, florence, all shitholes in the parallel universe mircea_popescu apparently posts from? [17:27]
PeterL: << mpfhf in python , I was thinking about and flipping a single bit instead of going through the whole array [17:28]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-05 22:28 asciilifeform: re mircea_popescu's hash, another observation : it is not ever necessary to actually invert S. ( i will leave the reason for this, again, as an exercise to readers ) [17:28]
mircea_popescu: what you said parsed as 1800 italy. which italy did you have in mind ? [17:28]
mircea_popescu: you can't fucking reference the original, 1200 tmsr as "disunified italy" wtf is this. [17:28]
asciilifeform: disunified - i.e. pre-garibaldi [17:28]
mircea_popescu: that is 1800s. [17:28]
asciilifeform: pre-washingtonization [17:28]
mircea_popescu: if you had venice in mind, it'd be more proper to say original pre-unified european union. [17:29]
asciilifeform: i.e. when 'italy' was a topographic name [17:29]
asciilifeform: not 1800s, lol! [17:29]
mircea_popescu: italy was used as a topographic name in the late empire (ie, 300s, italia) and else in the late 1800s [17:29]
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's entirely no relation between garibaldi and say venice. you wanna talk d'este, sforza, zee germanz etc. [17:30]
asciilifeform: well noshit. [17:30]
asciilifeform: but garibaldization removes even possibility of venices. [17:31]
asciilifeform: ditto washingtonization, bismarckization. [17:31]
mircea_popescu: by the time garibaldi was even a thing, the lido had long been sanded. [17:43]
mircea_popescu: i tihnk you have no appreciation of the fact that a thousand years is much MUCH wider than the piddly 5k kms making up the us sideways. [17:43]
mircea_popescu: somehow in your mind these two things, one on mars, the other on alpha centauri, kinda meld into a single item [17:44]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so argument is, no venice was possible ? why bash garibaldi then [17:56]
mircea_popescu: i was not. i was stating the gypos then befouling the peninsula are not worthy of inclusion in the species. [17:57]
asciilifeform: theoretically 'articles of confederation' america could've been moar venice than gypo. [17:58]
asciilifeform: but washington/hamilton, with their bait'an'switch trick, nuked that. [17:58]
mircea_popescu: not really. could have been more romiche reich than empire francais, at the very most. [17:58]
mircea_popescu: that it wasn't is principally due to the germans being congenitally retarded, and no moar. [17:58]
mircea_popescu: ye olde "live and let live" whereby the conservative is always in the end hung. [17:59]
asciilifeform: picture if plantation states had managed to build a reasonable defensive army ( feodal-style with purchased arms, mercenaries.. ) [17:59]
mircea_popescu: no. picture if plantation owners marched on washington in 1812, and hung a) all declared abolitionists b) any preacher of any kind c) any old women who did not applaud a and b. [18:00]
mircea_popescu: THAT is what i mean by "ye olde "live and let live" whereby the conservative is always in the end hung.". [18:00]
asciilifeform: well yes [18:00]
mircea_popescu: well yes and no more. [18:00]
asciilifeform: that's what 'defense' would've rightfully consisted of [18:01]
asciilifeform: 'good offense' [18:01]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: soo the 1812 thing - yer thinking of a separate 'southern' peace with britain..? [18:06]
mircea_popescu: nope. [18:07]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the ~only morally or intellectually respectable character in italy, ie the 1800s thing, was to be founbd not in italy but in sicily, which is altogether a different place. [18:17]
mircea_popescu: he is the continuator of the ancient military traditions of aristocracy, and he yielded the caudillo in south america. he yielded nothing in the southern us, principally because, agian, the germans are congenitally retarded. [18:17]
mircea_popescu: in sicily he is known as the honorable man, ie mobster. [18:17]
mircea_popescu: had the south managed to produce a de rosas, it'd have been a very different place. substantially, not just superficially. [18:18]
mircea_popescu: but as it is -- 19.95 and would you like paper or plastioc bag ? [18:18]
asciilifeform: de rosas was fighting other agrarians, neh [18:20]
asciilifeform: rather than technologically superior 'martians' [18:20]
mircea_popescu: england, france, the usual muck. [18:20]
asciilifeform: england, france, were far [18:21]
asciilifeform: getting materiel to sa was then almost as today is to orbit [18:21]
mircea_popescu: closer than they were in 1812 [18:21]
asciilifeform: tru [18:21]
mircea_popescu: and argentina much closer than japan. [18:22]
mircea_popescu: or -- india. [18:22]
mircea_popescu: much lower "perceived spoiliage value", however. and this because indians aren't worth jack shit in a fight whreas rosas kinda scared them [18:25]
deedbot: << Qntra - Illinois Personal Income Tax Rising ~1/3 Over Governor's Objections [18:40]
BingoBoingo: ^ In other CHIraqi failed states [18:40]
mircea_popescu: 1/3 whats ? [18:41]
BingoBoingo: of what it was [18:44]
mircea_popescu: so by ~1/3rd ? [18:44]
BingoBoingo: ty fxd [18:44]
phf: shinohai: i just noticed that jhvh1 seems to mangle urls with escape sequences in them on search [19:28]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 21:05 jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Țiganiada - Wikisource: <> Tiganiada - Ion Budai Deleanu - YouTube: <> Tiganiada (Romanian Edition) (9786069830864): Ion ...: <> [19:28]
shinohai: Yeah phf's the heathen google plugin that came with gribble. I haven't bothered to fix, sorry, since I have a rewrite in the worx [19:30]
phf: actually, not sure what's going on, that youtube url has slashes escaped for some reason [19:30]
phf: no worries, just didn't know if you knew [19:31]
shinohai: While Limnoria is stable bot platform, the way it handles plugins does a lot of crazy shit I've never been able to fix. :/ [19:32]
mircea_popescu: do they have a chatroom for bugs and suych ? [19:38]
shinohai: I was in there like maybe a year ago, it's definitely as dead as #b-a [19:56]
mircea_popescu: sux [20:19]
mircea_popescu: 'Perhaps the best example of claiming credit for a problem that did not exist before is the marine chronometer. The marine chronometer enthusiasts claim it solved the “timing at sea” problem. Two men attempting to meat in front of Saint Paul's need to agree on a time of day, so how do you provide time for a ship at sea ? Very simple, you do not send out ships without a timetelling oracle onboard.' [20:50]
mircea_popescu: babbage sleeps happily in his grave, serene in the empirical knowledge that the anglotards of today are just as fucked in the head as the anglotards of his day. [20:52]
phf: wut is this even [20:52]
mircea_popescu: [20:52]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 01:49 asciilifeform: 'Perhaps the best example of claiming credit for a problem that did not exist before is Bitcoin. Bitcoin enthusiasts claim it solved the “double spend” problem. A music MP3 can be copied multiple times so how do you stop digital money being spent multiple times? Very simple, you do not create a form of money that lacks a central authority.' << ahahhahaha [20:52]
mircea_popescu: "very simple -- you reach backwards through time and jack your dad off!" [20:53]
phf: aaah [20:53]
phf: crafty, got a rise out of me! [20:54]
mircea_popescu: :p [20:54]
mircea_popescu: this is by no means singular derapage of one stray goat, either. "how do you check the correctness of a program ?" "very simple -- first, you build an universal corectness checker. then, you feed it your problem. done!" [20:57]
mircea_popescu: cuz you know, dollars don't lack a central authority. somehow. because if we lalalala really hard pantsuit hilarity losing the elections didn't happen and totally the fed is in control of shit. [20:59]
mircea_popescu: do they serve the two pump hurr durr mocha latte yet or still working on it ? [20:59]
erlehmann: i wonder what “simple” in that sentence would mean. short? or “i have a beautiful solution but it does not fit into the margin of this input field”? [21:00]
mircea_popescu: !~google simple english [21:00]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: No matches found. [21:00]
mircea_popescu: that's because you're retarded, dear google. [21:00]
erlehmann: i remember reading an article about the trisectors [21:01]
erlehmann: [21:01]
mircea_popescu: [21:01]
asciilifeform: the ' trisectors' piece is hilarious, erlehmann [21:05]
asciilifeform: pure gold [21:05]
mircea_popescu: is it the u dudley piece ? [21:05]
erlehmann: y [21:06]
erlehmann: > the author has never made a study of these branches of learning [21:09]
erlehmann: i guess trisectorball cannot into hilbert space [21:09]
asciilifeform: >> moar closely, oughta be '...simply do not send out ships out of sight of a clock tower!1' [21:11]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-07 00:50 mircea_popescu: 'Perhaps the best example of claiming credit for a problem that did not exist before is the marine chronometer. The marine chronometer enthusiasts claim it solved the “timing at sea” problem. Two men attempting to meat in front of Saint Paul's need to agree on a time of day, so how do you provide time for a ship at sea ? Very simple, you do not send out ships without a timetelling oracle onboard.' [21:11]
mircea_popescu: nope. [21:11]
mircea_popescu: cuz now you've built a different kind of ship [21:11]
asciilifeform: ( laugh, but the brit royal society considered this... floating towers , cannon signals etc ) [21:11]
mircea_popescu: (clock towers -- notoriously innacurate, closer to billboards than to quartz watches) [21:12]
mircea_popescu: moreover, the "central authority" bullshit is LITERALLY and quite exactly "time telling oracle" [21:12]
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as central authority, nor ever was. nor could ever be. [21:12]
mircea_popescu: people pretending otherwise are pretending otherwise, like the girlies trying to get a husband by staring.\ [21:13]
asciilifeform: did the usg.ntp people ever get a signed version going, i wonder [21:13]
asciilifeform: prolly closest stab [21:13]
asciilifeform: ( iirc they do finally have a signed private gps band ) [21:14]
asciilifeform: still won't save the receiver from. [21:15]
asciilifeform: delay. [21:15]
* mircea_popescu reread his own version of dudley. are you aware fermat theorem proofs is in his list ? [21:15]
mircea_popescu: kinda diminishes the piece in retrospect. [21:15]
asciilifeform: nope, not diminishes [21:16]
asciilifeform: recall that crackpots STILL send those [21:16]
mircea_popescu: but one crackpot sent one that was correct. [21:16]
asciilifeform: 'elementary proofs of fermat's last' [21:16]
asciilifeform: wiles, see, 'doesn't count' because 'too long and uses things not taught in kindergarten and wtf is this' [21:17]
mircea_popescu: it counts to my read. [21:17]
mircea_popescu: SPECIFICALLY because of that tail. [21:17]
asciilifeform: yes but not to the 'trisectors' [21:17]
asciilifeform: the ~same folx are to this day sending fermat proofs 3pgs long, with rotten algebra, as before wiles.. [21:18]
mircea_popescu: sure. and they will. but dudley's piece is now... just as pseudo, and just as crank, as theirs, [21:18]
asciilifeform: map colouring proof also [21:18]
mircea_popescu: o i had a lot of fun with that as a kid. [21:18]
mircea_popescu: you know it got preteen girls REALLY going ? [21:18]
* mircea_popescu picked it out of an old gardner book. [21:18]
asciilifeform: what about the dudley piece is in any way false ? the folx described therein, behave exactly as described, i have met them [21:19]
asciilifeform: and they're still in business ( to an extent, old age took its toll, and new ones not being made ) [21:19]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but the proposition that a proof for fermat's conjecture is not worth reading past page four is not factual. [21:19]
asciilifeform: ~from rando with no symptoms of any mathematical study~ you betcha not worth reading ! [21:20]
asciilifeform: wiles was a known pro, 'in the wot', note. [21:20]
asciilifeform: with known unrelated work, of quality [21:20]
mircea_popescu: and the digit-of-pi dude ? [21:20]
asciilifeform: ditto [21:20]
mircea_popescu: i recall he was a grad student or such [21:21]
asciilifeform: ( he got perelmanned , yes ) [21:21]
erlehmann: perelmanned? [21:22]
mircea_popescu: anyway, i don't per se dispute the piece can be rescued with liberal application of benevolent reading balm. i just don't seem inclined. [21:22]
asciilifeform: i dun see the problem at all [21:22]
mircea_popescu: well then good there's two of us. [21:22]
asciilifeform: actual practitioners don't send unsolicited 'elementary proof of 1000yr problem ' [21:23]
erlehmann: asciilifeform wiles announced proofs at math conference, no? [21:23]
mircea_popescu: i seem to recall you spending some lines discussing the problem of "unknown practitioner" [21:23]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is theoretically a problem [21:24]
asciilifeform: but has two edges. [21:24]
mircea_popescu: and the faucet for when practical in your hand ? [21:24]
asciilifeform: it is , i mean, problem not only for one side. as the linked piece is about. [21:25]
mircea_popescu: anyway. his bad for inserting a conjecture among actually known shit. there's a difference between "we don't know if rsa is hard" and "we know you can't compress all files" [21:25]
asciilifeform: interestingly we aren't (yet!!) awash in attempted proofs of 'rsa is hard' [21:26]
mircea_popescu: i expect alf himself WILL voraciously read "proof" of former, no matter the source. [21:26]
asciilifeform: or even of p!=np [21:26]
mircea_popescu: of latter -- maybe 50% of the time [21:26]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember the "England -- implementation of logarithm" ? await ye till republic is actually where the idle seek their bread. then watch and be awashed art the deluge [21:27]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it were fashionable for folx with 3rd grade education to attempt such proofs, and i got one in the mail ( why., though, i dun work in that racket ) i might begin to do as subj link describes, and triage'em by symptoms [21:28]
mircea_popescu: would you ? [21:28]
mircea_popescu: allow me to quote : [21:28]
asciilifeform: in practice, enthusiastic halfwits dun have much originality in their works. [21:28]
mircea_popescu: "when a man grows old, and his balls grow cold, and the tip of his prick turns blue, he may in turn start do as the subj link describes, an' triage'm by symptoms" [21:29]
erlehmann: asciilifeform crypto cranks need no proofs. take – money quote: “We don't have any exact proof of security for a cascade of block ciphers in CTR mode. But we're pretty sure” [21:29]
mircea_popescu: keybase delivers. [21:29]
asciilifeform: erlehmann: these are a snore and merit 0 brain cycles at all [21:29]
mircea_popescu: i mostly like the intimation that while they may not have any exact proof, they do have sufficient inexact ones. [21:30]
asciilifeform: 'to the furnace. next.' [21:30]
asciilifeform: inexactproof lel [21:30]
mircea_popescu: a nudge is as good as fuckall to the blind bat. [21:30]
erlehmann: about as useful as tingling feeling in butt [21:30]
mircea_popescu: hey, this could be gay slang. "is your butt use-full yet, twink ?" [21:30]
erlehmann: but then those are the ones urging ppl to upload ther private keys [21:31]
erlehmann: because it's easier (trust us!!!111) [21:31]
asciilifeform: erlehmann: there are societies devoted to encouraging emo teenagers to jump from roof. why not also for uploading privkeys. [21:31]
mircea_popescu: in other news, i got one of those bar shot ladle things, for ease of delivery. it's a very useful implement. [21:31]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there are ? you mean the japanese train jumping girly thing ? [21:32]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nah in ru [21:32]
asciilifeform: caused much scandalwank [21:32]
mircea_popescu: amuysing factoid -- the japs got rid of the problem by making bereaved families pay fine + repairs. [21:32]
erlehmann: i am glad such stuff exists, because association with it shows stupid. if i remember correctly, debian response to keybase fuckery was: we consider stuff showing up on keybase compromised, any keys showing up will be shot on sight. [21:33]
mircea_popescu: apparently "don't step in front of subway, you will die" is a lot less comprehesible to 8 yo japanese girl than "if i end up having to pay a fine for it I WILL FUCKING KILL YOU!" [21:33]
erlehmann: source? [21:33]
mircea_popescu: just vafgue memories, nothing definhite [21:34]
asciilifeform: erlehmann: pretty sure debian nao 100% keybase powered [21:34]
asciilifeform: after murdock was 'suicided' [21:35]
mircea_popescu: things that "just happen", inferior nonsense pseudotech gaining usg tendril adoption. [21:35]
mircea_popescu: you know, like tor. sure symptom of "it's totally leaderless yah" [21:36]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-01 15:38 mircea_popescu: yet these "measures of all things" exemplars of pure humanity, that honestly believe their heads are capable of any lifting, if they "just had the facts" hurr durr lol lol snort, nevertheless can't see far enough ahead to realise they're "leaderless" because their leaders are out and out bullshit, and for no other reason. [21:36]
asciilifeform: << i'm curious, what's the non-blue alternative? read all?! then no time to eat, sleep... read 0? state-of-the-art solution, practiced by many. but sometimes crackpot proofs are novel in some entertaining way. hence 'triage' [21:38]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-07 01:29 mircea_popescu: "when a man grows old, and his balls grow cold, and the tip of his prick turns blue, he may in turn start do as the subj link describes, an' triage'm by symptoms" [21:38]
asciilifeform: just like folx kink entertaining heathen idiocies here. [21:38]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not protesting the passage of time, nor its effects. merely remarking on it. [21:38]
asciilifeform: *link [21:38]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you were to get 9000 letters / d. would also ignore or triage. [21:39]
mircea_popescu: i ignore and triage as it is. [21:39]
asciilifeform: so whence the old blue cock [21:39]
mircea_popescu: it's the sign of age, what! [21:39]
mircea_popescu: !~google mark saldana, tokyo's human accidents jinshin jiko and the social meaning of train suicide [21:40]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Tokyo's " Human Accidents ": Jinshin Jiko and the Social Meaning of ...: <> Tokyo : Earthquakes and train suicide . | - Hong Kong Housewife: <> The Culture of Japan - Web Tome: < [21:40]
mircea_popescu: ^ erlehmann there's your source, courtesy of friendly birdy in my ear. [21:41]
asciilifeform: incidentally we have these here [21:41]
asciilifeform: with impressive frequency [21:41]
asciilifeform: ( naturally 0 , afaik, official count, but back when i rode the train daily, it was delayed 'for track problem', and telltale equipment visible later, every few mo. ) [21:42]
mircea_popescu: few a year isn't much of a frequency [21:42]
asciilifeform: perhaps [21:43]
asciilifeform: this is just along 1 particular route, note [21:43]
asciilifeform: probably multiply by 20 to get estimate of whole washington. [21:43]
mircea_popescu: do you know that salo joke, "hey, the muscovy went to space !" "all of them ?" "no, just one" "then what are you bothering me for" [21:44]
asciilifeform: at any rate, the traditional ustard suicide, at least of grown man, is by auto. counts as 'accident' for insurance. [21:44]
asciilifeform: ( virtually without fail ) [21:45]
mircea_popescu: i wonder if the guy's cessna was insured. [21:45]
asciilifeform: stack's ? [21:45]
mircea_popescu: ya [21:45]
asciilifeform: nfi. but recall the bernardino postal [21:45]
asciilifeform: and the later wank [21:45]
asciilifeform: 'ohnoez, terrorists oughnt get insurance payout' [21:46]
mircea_popescu: lel [21:46]
mircea_popescu: except... they don't. [21:46]
asciilifeform: well 'families of враги народа' (tm)(r) [21:47]
mircea_popescu: bill of attainder eh. [21:47]
mircea_popescu: such lolz, the kakobrelkas of today trying to deal with the logs of yesteryear. [21:47]
asciilifeform: modern usg makes billofattainder with every fart [21:47]
mircea_popescu: it's always an amusement to watch. [21:47]
asciilifeform: for decades nao [21:47]
mircea_popescu: !!up gribble [21:50]
deedbot: gribble voiced for 30 minutes. [21:50]
mircea_popescu: seen vragnaroda [21:50]
gribble: vragnaroda was last seen in #trilema 4 years, 31 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <vragnaroda> Not until just now but that's fantastic. [21:50]
erlehmann: > JR East, the line we were trying to take, is the most popular for suicides because it charges the bereaved families the least. [21:50]
erlehmann: suicide tourism, lulz [21:50]
mircea_popescu: good suicide will push bad suicide out of circulation! [21:51]
erlehmann: shop around for a cheap death! [21:51]
asciilifeform: i dun get it, why trains. why not roofs, bridges, etc [21:51]
erlehmann: fear of heights? accessible places? [21:51]
asciilifeform: even if street sweeper charges, what's it cost to hose a pavement. [21:51]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform people are not thinking agents. in deprs, transitions are a major consideration, much more so than any others. [21:51]
mircea_popescu: trains provide numerous and precise transitions. rooftops do not. [21:51]
asciilifeform: how not? climb, jump, splat..? [21:52]
mircea_popescu: have you ever seen an idiot stop in a doorway ? because his brain simply shut down confronted with the transition ? "oh, room. outdoors. whoa!" [21:52]
asciilifeform: actually no! i only ever read about mircea_popescu's argentines doing this [21:52]
asciilifeform: and the fictional idiot in hanbot's 'yankee' [21:52]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it just sits there. there's no transition on a roof. if anything, the lack of transitions is calming, which is why jumpers can notoriously be talked out of it. make no sudden gesutres, let him take in the outdoors, he'll climb down. [21:53]
asciilifeform: i thought only 'demonstrative emos' can be talked out [21:53]
mircea_popescu: not really so much related. [21:54]
asciilifeform: d00d with actual reason to call it quits - generally no [21:54]
mircea_popescu: doesn't have to call it quits on calling it quits. just on calling it quits right then and there. [21:54]
mircea_popescu: in practice, asciilifeform, there is. [21:54]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the pretense some derp "reasoned" about suicide is ridiculous of the prime order. who exactly is so equiped that they may so reason ? [21:55]
mircea_popescu: odds are he's not competent enough to reason about a cup of tea. [21:55]
erlehmann: suppose people wanted to splat faster, terminal velocity for human in air is around ~200 km/h and is probably not achieved from standard issue rooftop. [21:56]
mircea_popescu: erlehmann you know how to calculate this ? [21:56]
mircea_popescu: !~calc (200 / 3.6)**2 / 9.8 [21:57]
gribble: Error: "~calc" is not a valid command. [21:57]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: (200 / 3.6)**2 / 9.8 = 314.9407911312673 [21:57]
erlehmann: mircea_popescu of course i have no idea how to calculate drag from human body and believe skydiver websites [21:57]
erlehmann: oh wait, you meant something different [21:57]
mircea_popescu: drag really dun matter in this discussion. [21:57]
mircea_popescu: i just did the math to show you the thing you copy/pasted is nonsense -- surely someone jumping from 214 meters (about 100 floors) will still die. [21:58]
asciilifeform: 5th floor generally enough [21:58]
erlehmann: ah, but terminal velocity is <--[drag]-- o|< --[gravity]--> (rotate by 90 deg) [21:58]
asciilifeform: ( ~= auto wreck into stationary wall at typical usa highway speed ) [21:59]
erlehmann: mircea_popescu 100 floors is reasonably uncommon [21:59]
asciilifeform: 100 is a luxury! [21:59]
mircea_popescu: erlehmann really ? what do you think drag is, magic ? where does "drag" hide all that energy, not like people splat in flames. [21:59]
asciilifeform: skyscraper dun have openable windows, tourism decks also glassed in [21:59]
erlehmann: i regret my remark [22:00]
asciilifeform: gotta be one hell of a rich d00d, to jump from 100.. [22:00]
mircea_popescu: "drag" is aconsideration in this discussion for the sort of intellect that reads wikireddit and thinks haskell is a useful programming language. [22:00]
mircea_popescu: [22:01]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 16:30 phf: building wot for all comers will suffer the same fate as pgp. since nobody's using it, it turns into an arms race of easy to use, or "innovation" also known as masturbation over technical minutiae. i sort of realized this when i tried applying tmsr solutions to my cypherpunk friends: "no we don't need to research the difference between signal and telegram, just encrypt it to my gpg key and post it on dpaste or whatever." eliminated all the technical di [22:01]
asciilifeform: 'i need to jump but only got keys to 5th floor so no dice' said afaik nobody ever [22:02]
mircea_popescu: on concrete, 5-6th floor are just about experimentally enough. [22:02]
asciilifeform: 'hey gotta eat pistol but all i got is 9mm' , picture [22:02]
* mircea_popescu witnessed splat left by woman jumping from 7th in tm. [22:03]
mircea_popescu: there was no question of survival, indentification more a concern. [22:03]
asciilifeform: more interesting when they fall on a car [22:03]
asciilifeform: often looks superficially like 'died of nothing', car - 'total' [22:03]
mircea_popescu: had the deency not to. plain asphalt, smooth, crushed ~every bone in her body. [22:03]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the even worst is when the fucking moose does it. [22:04]
asciilifeform: there, iirc was a chick who survived parachuteless fall from liner [22:04]
erlehmann: guy in my school from parallel class suicided himself by highspeed train. there were no buildings around with more than three floors (excluding ground level). [22:04]
mircea_popescu: power of queefs ? [22:04]
erlehmann: like, years ago, of course [22:04]
asciilifeform: ( suffered from low pressure , so heart did not burst ) [22:04]
asciilifeform: but bones - liquid [22:05]
erlehmann: this ends on a weirdo note [22:05]
erlehmann: > There’s a very scary trend online now where young people kill themselves online. How terrible is that?! [22:06]
asciilifeform: pediwikidiots whine that 'ohnoez jp suicide rate' but really it is other countries that suffer from folx with excessive hanging on [22:07]
asciilifeform: for what does homo redditicus remain alive? [22:08]
erlehmann: upvotes, most likely [22:08]
erlehmann: number goes up, mood goes up [22:09]
mircea_popescu: !~google "i like to get the daily news" [22:09]
gribble: Error: "~google" is not a valid command. [22:09]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Seinfeld - George wasting his life - YouTube: <> I Like to Get the Daily News | Facebook: <> Contact Us - NY Daily News: <> [22:09]
erlehmann: mircea_popescu thanks for link to article about social meaning of train suicide [22:09]
erlehmann: for some reason the topic makes me think of the book “the queer art of failure” [22:10]
erlehmann: but i can't really put it together [22:10]
erlehmann: asciilifeform i think mircea_popescu may be onto something with awareness of transitions. there was this one organization for sucide help (something swiss) and many people who get greenlighted by them actually do not kill themselves. [22:13]
erlehmann: dignitas, swiss non-profit for assisting with suicide [22:14]
mircea_popescu: it's the state-of-the-art re the topic, from people who actually study it as opposed to uswank it. [22:15]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [23:17]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2574.98, vol: 8534.13409713 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2536.007, vol: 3411.41189 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2563.0, vol: 9818.74684715 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2616.894, vol: 6255.96960000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2591.426, vol: 3428.32639488 | Volume-weighted last average: 2577.142686 [23:18]
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