Forum logs for 05 Nov 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
mircea_popescu: well, i'd say i'm edified. [00:01]
mircea_popescu: i still think you should as a parting shot not because i expect anything besides the "meet mr al-schmukwari at 8am", but because why not let the remnant of congratulate itself on "succeeding" ? let some schmuck "earn" a bonus, what's it to you or me. [00:02]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-03 22:38 mircea_popescu: Mocky so i guess next step is make an appointment with their minister of technology, industry, or whatever the fuck, explain to the secretarial overseer you end up seeing that the republic is in principle willing to do some tech transfer help them become a real country, exchange confused nods and handshakes and set the bozo bit on the ball of faux carpeting yarn pretending to be a country ? [00:02]
Mocky: what do you mean by tech transfer? [00:03]
Mocky: like your computers are shitty but you could remedy that? [00:04]
mircea_popescu: Mocky like you could build a chip foundry we man and train. the item [00:44]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 15:44 mircea_popescu: now, a 4096 bit native fpga, specifically for rsa-ing and rsa-likes-ing, THAT might be very useful, because there the s-o-d item is major win. [00:44]
Mocky: ok [00:45]
mircea_popescu: why don't they fab chips anyway ? got plenty of sand yes ? [00:45]
mircea_popescu: what, the filipino/indonesians/etc are better in the brain or what ? [00:45]
mircea_popescu: do you understand what the item in question is, given as example ? would like likbez ? [00:46]
Mocky: I think I understand but the more examples the better [00:51]
mircea_popescu: examples ? [00:51]
mircea_popescu: tell me, what's a bus ? [00:51]
Mocky: a data pathway [00:52]
mircea_popescu: that's no answer. [00:52]
mircea_popescu: how do you distinguish a bus from a cat5 cable ? [00:52]
Mocky: it's on a board, between chips [00:52]
mircea_popescu: your definitions are terrible. [00:53]
mircea_popescu: there's a bus in the basement of the building you're now, for electricity. [00:53]
mircea_popescu: < item [00:55]
Mocky: ok [00:55]
mircea_popescu: a direct line is a bus, see. if you switch it's a switched line, if you don't switch it's a bus line. if you packet it's "a data pathway". [00:57]
mircea_popescu: does this resonate with any familiarity in ye olde phracking and telco or nothing there to resonate with ? [00:57]
Mocky: yes it does [00:58]
mircea_popescu: cool. now what's a register ? [00:58]
Mocky: a named local storage location [00:59]
mircea_popescu: not at all. [01:00]
mircea_popescu: a register is the processor byte. [01:00]
mircea_popescu: do you see why its width would beneifically match the bus width ? [01:01]
Mocky: operands have to be fetched and results stored along the bus before and after each processor op [01:02]
mircea_popescu: well no, if they are different witdths you have to... switch [01:02]
mircea_popescu: the less switrches the cheaper, faster, better etc. [01:03]
mircea_popescu: right ? [01:03]
Mocky: i'm trying to see it [01:04]
mircea_popescu: if your bus pipes in stuff at 32 bits/cycle and your registers are 64 bits, you have to distinguish two kinds of cycles. [01:04]
mircea_popescu: if instead registers are 16 bits, you have to distinguish two kinds of registers. [01:04]
Mocky: like a left and right register? [01:05]
mircea_popescu: or up and down or we [01:06]
Mocky: ok [01:06]
mircea_popescu: 1st and 2nd portions of a full cycle, 1st and 2nd portions of a full register etc. [01:06]
Mocky: i see it [01:06]
mircea_popescu: what ELSE would the register width beneficially match ? [01:06]
Mocky: the operand size for cpu instructions [01:07]
mircea_popescu: not at all. [01:07]
mircea_popescu: that's a list, you don't care. [01:07]
mircea_popescu: if you need 5 or 56 instructions makes 0 diff. [01:08]
mircea_popescu: oh oh, wait, maybe i misread. "the operand", wtf does that mean here ? [01:08]
Mocky: the unit size of memory addresses [01:08]
mircea_popescu: why ? [01:08]
Mocky: same thing on the other end of the bus [01:09]
mircea_popescu: a yeah, that's right. you mewan ~the actual~ byte size of the data. yes ? its native size ? [01:09]
Mocky: if a fetch from memory grabs 32 bits, and the data is 32 bits on the memory side and the register side then you don't need the switch [01:11]
mircea_popescu: nah, that's not it. data, what your processor will work with, also has a NATIVE byte. [01:11]
mircea_popescu: i know thios is unlikely a notion, because the crud of voip or divx or w/e could seemingly have any bytness. however think ... displays have 32 bit color byteness... and [01:12]
Mocky: oh, that's what i meant by operand size, the unit the processor is woking with [01:12]
mircea_popescu: importantly... what's the byteness of rsa ? [01:12]
Mocky: I don't know rsa maths well enough to say [01:13]
mircea_popescu: well, we use 4096 bit keys, therefore as asciilifeform well points out, the native byte of rsa is 8192. [01:14]
mircea_popescu: now, what's commercial processors bus and register width ? [01:14]
Mocky: 64 bit bus and iirc 32 bit registers, typically [01:15]
mircea_popescu: right-o. [01:15]
mircea_popescu: and so in order to rsa on a commercial processor, you gotta do a mountain of switching [01:15]
Mocky: right [01:15]
mircea_popescu: which, because of the nature of crypto ops in the first pace, is very fucking finnicky... switching can leak data. [01:15]
mircea_popescu: hence the whole effort in ffa, which is nothing else and nothing besides a switching harness for 64 bit cpu so it doesn't leak data while switching it for a 8192 native byte. [01:16]
mircea_popescu: now, do you see how these magic numbers are nothing else, and if producer wants he can make 19, 4435 or whatever bus and register cpus FOR THE SAME COST ? [01:16]
Mocky: well power of 2 values i see [01:17]
mircea_popescu: right. now, do you see how data-native byteness processor made on 1995s tech would beat the shit off inconveniently byted poroessor made yesterday, for the specific application in question ? [01:17]
Mocky: i do [01:18]
mircea_popescu: why does there not exist a rsa-sized specialist processor widely available now ? [01:18]
Mocky: i can't think of a good why not [01:19]
mircea_popescu: the answer you're looking for is "because confederacy of dunces". [01:19]
mircea_popescu: now... why is qatar having political problems atm ? [01:20]
Mocky: nominally because neighbors claim 'allowed terrorist donations' but i don't know the actual why [01:21]
mircea_popescu: also because confederacy of dunces, perhaps ? the EXACT SAME dunces, actually ? [01:22]
mircea_popescu: do you see why the man besieged by rats and the horse besieged by rats may perhaps make what's called "a couple made in heaven" ? [01:22]
Mocky: yes [01:22]
mircea_popescu: now, what's an asic ? [01:22]
Mocky: hardware baked with a specific algo, not generall purpose [01:23]
mircea_popescu: keks [01:23]
mircea_popescu: let's just say it's playdo cpu, right ? you can cut here and there and get various basic units working together. [01:23]
mircea_popescu: now, perhaps this also could be made in such a way as to data byteness ? [01:24]
mircea_popescu: point being, there's a LOT they could do to be useful, first of all to themselves. dja see it ? [01:24]
Mocky: yes [01:24]
mircea_popescu: so that's the angle. [01:24]
mircea_popescu: i clearly recall ceausescu's lament back in the 70s, "they sell us today's tech at high prices, because they have tomorrow's lined up. but what can we do?" [01:25]
mircea_popescu: this is their one shot to buy tomorrow's. whether they have the sense... ceausescu never had the chance. [01:25]
Mocky: i see it [01:27]
mircea_popescu: well congrats on surviving half hour of powerhosing. few do. [01:32]
Mocky: the mp hot seat [01:34]
diana_coman: - a config file seems the better choice, yes I'll add it to the list to move the keys to a config file and update the tests to read from config file that should actually meet asciilifeform's requirements too since the code will not contain the >80cols lines (although the config files will, of course) [04:56]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 23:10 mircea_popescu: diana_coman imo such items belong in a config file then. though he prolly wants the ~config~ file to also be "human readable" by which he means hard-paged at 80 cols like for idiots. because there's no such thing as a terminal, nor user settings, and i gotta format my text in a way that's aware of his dumb terminal. and he thinks this acceptable, somehow, that at the time i write i must bear in mind how he'll later read. [04:56]
diana_coman: -> the way I read this was that arab did not consider that as appointment, more like audience granted -perhaps, if allah finds time for it - to lowlife sort of thing [05:09]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 04:47 mircea_popescu: <<< top fucking keks. really, arab don't keep appointment ?! this is some next level shit, never heard of it b4. [05:09]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman seems the reasonable available goat-and-cabbage pacifier [09:03]
* asciilifeform watched in horror as the cabbage ate teh wolf, last time he played w+g+c [09:06]
diana_coman: ahahhaha, that's a lousy wolf [09:06]
asciilifeform: can't always source grade a+ wolf... [09:06]
mircea_popescu: was this a racoon ? [09:07]
asciilifeform: nah ( my pest control algo for those actually, believe or not , worked, 8 down and none seen lately ) [09:07]
mircea_popescu: did you shoot them or what was it ? [09:08]
asciilifeform: rather, was a gnarly mathe-deadend. [09:08]
mircea_popescu: speaking of cabbage-ate-wolf, yest @bbq had juvenile duck stare down the shit out of adult pitbulls. [09:09]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: shot with , roughly, the item from conan doyle's 'the empty house' [09:09]
mircea_popescu: cuz they're all shy and "waht the FUCK is this then" and the duck's like FUCK YOU MY GRANNY WAS A VELOCIRAPTOR! [09:09]
asciilifeform: lol [09:10]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, that sounds close to "and then goat ate the wolf" [09:10]
mircea_popescu: i guess at that... [09:10]
mircea_popescu: aaand in other news of only apparent alf interest, i'm in talks with... a chick from moscow. [09:11]
mircea_popescu: moscow IDAHO. this is a thing now, fucking paris, texas wan't good enough for these people. they gotta have a moscow also. [09:11]
asciilifeform: lol!! [09:11]
asciilifeform: they have a rome in illinois, a odessa in texas, etc so wainot [09:11]
diana_coman: lol, I never quite understood wtf it is with US that they can't even come up with new names for places or what [09:12]
mircea_popescu: and if they try to "fucker, get your own names" it's mittikittegoongamooga or w/e the fuck the canadians call things [09:12]
asciilifeform: at least the had the sense to make newyork prefixed [09:12]
diana_coman: wounded knee! [09:12]
asciilifeform: rather than york [09:12]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a york. [09:12]
asciilifeform: is there, i missed [09:12]
asciilifeform: but not surprising. i think they hashcollided whole planet at this point. [09:13]
mircea_popescu: [09:13]
asciilifeform: ha. [09:13]
asciilifeform: << 1 nitpick -- not quite same cost, the size of the adder, barrel shifter, and esp. -- multer, grow with the cube of the reg bitness [09:16]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 06:16 mircea_popescu: now, do you see how these magic numbers are nothing else, and if producer wants he can make 19, 4435 or whatever bus and register cpus FOR THE SAME COST ? [09:16]
mircea_popescu: same cost as in, fixed cost of the machinery making them [09:16]
asciilifeform: my orig observation was that this is a less stupid use of die space than e.g tlb cache and the other liquishit x86 is packed with 'so win10 faster' [09:17]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for so long as you can fit in $process -- yes entirely same [09:17]
mircea_popescu: right. and his bitness doesn't enter into it, though i didn't pick it up. literally, prime-count bus same cost. [09:18]
mircea_popescu: and for that matter crt bitness is 24 not 32, but apparently nobody cared enough to insist on the exact magic number [09:18]
mircea_popescu: and so on. [09:18]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: depending how you cut it, varies . e.g. my 'eizo' has a 'byteness' of 14 bits ( per channel ) [09:19]
asciilifeform: for a 'wordness of' 42 [09:20]
mircea_popescu: right. [09:20]
mircea_popescu: anyways, more in the general, there's a LOT of merit to dennis hopper's monologue in : "he didn't think to tell me... and i didn't think to ask". [09:21]
mircea_popescu: MOST of issues in civilised (which strictly means white) world are resolved by that method. [09:21]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in weblulz, [09:28]
mircea_popescu: because what could be better than starting one of these 2008-style spamsites, in 2018 ? [09:28]
mircea_popescu: NICHE!!! [09:28]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i get pingbacks from these nonstop. tho more often they're shannonized 'miner' sites [09:37]
mircea_popescu: aha. [09:38]
mircea_popescu: incidentally, apropos de nothing : Jean van Heijenoort is an interesting character, not because of his youthful association with one of the inconsequential marx-zigglers burlesque and slapstick acts of the early 20th century, but because of his later life as a historian of what could only properly be called "the end of nations as an intellectual construct". [09:54]
mircea_popescu: his "source book" is practically speaking the last time one had to collect and translate previously uncollected and untranslated worldbreakers. [09:54]
asciilifeform: apropos of upstack -- last wk asciilifeform did the ~yearly dig re 'does anyone actually sell fpga big enuff to demo 8192b-arithmetizer inside, fully unrolled' and turns out that yes (as of 6mo ago) [10:00]
asciilifeform: ( naturally it's the big-fpga monopolist, xilinx . but it's there. ) [10:00]
asciilifeform: they offer a half-mil. LUT thing. (can fit, e.g., orig 'pentium', say.) [10:01]
Mocky: how much? [10:01]
asciilifeform: Mocky: coupla thou. usd [10:02]
asciilifeform: afaik they're ~only~ used for asic dev, hence the 'we charge weight in diamonds' [10:02]
asciilifeform: but they're actually in my parts houses' catalogues. [10:03]
Mocky: speaking of weight in diamnonds, I find the guy I should be talking to here: Hassan Al-Sayed [10:03]
Mocky: Assistant Undersecretary, Information Technology [10:03]
asciilifeform: Mocky: sounds like exactly what mircea_popescu was speaking of. see if allah wills that he shows up to his desk.. [10:04]
Mocky: went down to the ministry of transportation and communitications today to book an appointment. they told me he wasn't at that building but the other ministry building [10:05]
asciilifeform: 'your princess is in another castle'(tm)(r) eh [10:05]
Mocky: at the other building, they told me he's at commercial bank plaza (home of servcorp coworks) [10:05]
Mocky: i didn't ahve time to make it over there before ministry closes at 2pm, sigh [10:06]
Mocky: i'm also skeptical that he's there. i was told by 8 20-something arabs lounging around the lobby desk bored. they had to call over the 9th who was the only one who could speak broken english [10:07]
Mocky: felt like "yeah he's a mile down the road, can't miss it" [10:07]
Mocky: I expect to work the phones to find this guy [10:07]
Mocky: anyway, i'm off to this DAO / blockchain meetup. couldnt' scare up a camera crew so I guess i'll have to film myself [10:09]
mircea_popescu: not the same thing ~at all~ however. for one thing, it comes with the xilinx shitstack. for the other, it's a sack large enough to contain a car. we're talking about the actual car. [10:13]
mircea_popescu: << top fucking keks over here. [10:14]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 15:05 asciilifeform: 'your princess is in another castle'(tm)(r) eh [10:14]
mircea_popescu: Mocky how are you enjoying the emissary extraordinary and plenipotentiary gig btw ? [10:15]
mod6: mornin' [10:38]
mod6: !Q later tell jurov [10:40]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 21:49 mod6: jurov: go ahead and Xcancel your auction #1005, and plz to bid on mine (#1006) [10:40]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didn't say it was 'same thing', yes it comes with the grandfather of all shitstacks (20+GB of liquishit) . it's for simulating designs, not for deploying ( why wouldja deploy anyffing on such a thing, it makes cluster of pc look vehehery cheap and 'opensores'y by comparison ) [11:05]
mircea_popescu: right. [11:05]
asciilifeform: << ancient asciilifeform article series re: a much older device of this type. [11:07]
asciilifeform: ( was: 'XC5VLX50' , 7.2k 'slices' x 4 LUTs (& 4 flipflops) ea., net 28800 LUTs & equal # of flipflops. ) [11:11]
asciilifeform: approx 4x the logic carpet of the fattest ice40, for comparison. [11:12]
asciilifeform: not directly comparable, tho, 'virtex' also had various heterogeneous parts, e.g. cascadable shift registers, adders, etc. inside. [11:15]
deedbot: << Qntra - India Rolls Out Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine [11:17]
asciilifeform: ( for 'real-life' comparison -- the miniature XC9572XL item in , gives 72 LUTs and nuffin else , of which FG uses all but 1 ) [11:17]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i distinctly recall that thing being advertised in early 2000s [11:19]
asciilifeform: the boat, i mean [11:20]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently they have been bumping their heads against various issues for 30+ years trying not to Argentina themselves [11:20]
BingoBoingo: But (current year) is the year it floats [11:20]
mircea_popescu: or the year they really really need its posture as a float be credible, seeing how they also want a chunk of china's sea. [11:23]
mircea_popescu: in other news, i've been sitting here all morning pondering whether inuit fucker franz boas or mme blavatsky dewey truly deserves the "intellectual father of pantsuit" title. [11:26]
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, there's actually two distinguishable pantsuit trends to this day, a mystagogical cvasi-elitism spawned from boas and a mechanicistic mammie-ism visibly spawned off dewey. [11:27]
BingoBoingo: I am inclined to lean toward Dewey cribbing from the pop culture hegelians. Not a father so much as the theiving sad sack from the "I made this" meme series [11:28]
mircea_popescu: (alf's "robohitler" mostly exists as alf's own mind's reinterpretation of the boas-pantsuit cargo cultish lulz (say in the "artificial intelligence" vein to pick but one of many examples) usually come from the dewey-pantsuit.) [11:28]
BingoBoingo: Dewey's mammie-ism is just distilling the pop culture hegelians who cam before him [11:29]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo just about, yeah! [11:29]
mircea_popescu: well yes, nobody's seriously contemplating the "ummim an' thurimm" of ye olde paris-moscow-rome-etcetera actually DOING anything. they're just whatever the subliterate peasantry remembers from the old world almanacs. [11:29]
* BingoBoingo did do two year of graduate study at SIU when their department still had the old house full of photocopies they dubbed "The Center For Dewey Studies" [11:30]
BingoBoingo: The transition to library school where Dewey mean a completely different person lead to some confusion in conversations, especially in Missouri where Truman defeated yet another different Dewey [11:33]
mircea_popescu: haha i bet. [11:34]
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's fucking lulzy to me how the dumb shit always comes back to "psychic unity of mankind" nonsense. [11:34]
mircea_popescu: no fucker, WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME ONE. [11:35]
mircea_popescu: jesus christ how hard is it to not be three years old anymore already. [11:35]
mircea_popescu: ah, speaking of young uns / : hey Mocky, did coallesce into something like "oh, herder" ? or did it come entirely outta left field ? [11:40]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 05:57 mircea_popescu: does this resonate with any familiarity in ye olde phracking and telco or nothing there to resonate with ? [11:40]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-18 18:51 mircea_popescu: Mocky i actually distinguish between smarts (the reductive ability, that powers "i suspect there's no such thing as intelligence", and typified perhaps best by d. kyon) and "intelligence" (the constructive ability, that powers "more loc, more tech, more future", and typified perhaps best by "fm-2030" ). [11:40]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> anyway, it's fucking lulzy to me how the dumb shit always comes back to "psychic unity of mankind" nonsense. << Well, in this case I don't see how Hegel isn't the daddy [11:42]
mircea_popescu: cuz any 3yo is the same exact daddy of THAT. [11:42]
BingoBoingo: Let's call up Maury and get that daytime tv paternity testing [11:43]
mircea_popescu: kek [11:43]
BingoBoingo: Anyways, suppose someone gets a time machine and kills baby Hegel. If Marx is still cribbing from someone in "the conversation" does he go to Fichte instead? Does drunk Steve Bannon arrive a century and a half too soon? [11:46]
BingoBoingo: And in local news... the coming months will determine which one of these two the transcendental Spirit of Great Again will bless [11:51]
asciilifeform: in other noose, yet another found : >>> [12:19]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-30 18:15 asciilifeform: in unrelated minor lulz, discovered yet another : [12:19]
asciilifeform: this makes for: 5 known specimens [12:20]
jurov: !Xcancel 1005 [12:48]
auctionbot: Sell order # 1005 was cancelled by jurov [12:48]
mod6: nice, thanks jurov [12:48]
mod6: asciilifeform: hmm, interesting [12:48]
diana_coman: -> and done asciilifeform and anyone else requiring strictly 80 cols - I've updated the post with a .vpatch to read the keys from file and thus keep them out of the fully-80-cols-now code itself: [12:48]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 09:56 diana_coman: - a config file seems the better choice, yes I'll add it to the list to move the keys to a config file and update the tests to read from config file that should actually meet asciilifeform's requirements too since the code will not contain the >80cols lines (although the config files will, of course) [12:48]
asciilifeform: neato, ty diana_coman [12:49]
jurov: !Xbid 1006 .31bn [12:49]
auctionbot: Buy order # 1006: 2k wFF Heard: .31bn from jurov. Ending: 2018-11-08 13:48:41.550007 UTC (79 hours 58 mins) [12:49]
mod6: o7 [12:51]
Mocky: >> I like it ok. I see now that I artificially capped my quality of life here by getting too-cheap accommodations. And that got amplified by not having power and internet anywhere else. [13:10]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 15:15 mircea_popescu: Mocky how are you enjoying the emissary extraordinary and plenipotentiary gig btw ? [13:10]
Mocky: just got back from blockchain event. I told them their ideas of humanity 3.0 governed by blockchain smart contracts was a delusion. And then critcized both the ethereum-roll-backers and the ethereum-continue-with-broken-shit [13:14]
Mocky: my poor self video skills yielded only my chin basically! [13:15]
Mocky: but jokes on me, nobody got ruffled feathers because they weren't advocating daos, just raising awareness! starting the conversation! they agreed with me! [13:17]
BingoBoingo: lol [13:20]
Mocky: guy said blockchain was gonna fix fake news, it told him his interpretation of the "DAO hack and ether theft" was the fake news [13:22]
Mocky: but when I watch it back I see that I softened my criticisms a lot [13:23]
asciilifeform: * amstan_ is now known as amstan << lol! that d00d is still here, i can't properly picture why [13:56]
asciilifeform: ( prolly is a ) [13:56]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-03 15:04 mircea_popescu: there he sits, remote in hand, "checking to see if there's anything interesting on the tv". are we ready to entertain him yet ? or does he come back later ? [13:56]
BingoBoingo: <Mocky> but jokes on me, nobody got ruffled feathers because they weren't advocating daos, just raising awareness! starting the conversation! they agreed with me! << It's what orcs do. How much hashish do you estimate the other attendees ate prior to showing up? [14:08]
Mocky: it was half white dudes in suits with british accents who looked pretty straight laced [14:15]
BingoBoingo: So, quite a bit [14:15]
mircea_popescu: Mocky somewhat not surprised. orcs generally take such positions [15:06]
mircea_popescu: and nothing wrong with diplomat being diplomatic. [15:06]
bvt: hello. i had to delay making a genesis of base64 lib, will try to finish tomorrow. [15:38]
bvt: found and unexpected problem that specialization of Ada.Sequential_IO conflicts with Restriction(No_Unchecked_Access) in the test applications. [15:39]
bvt: i had a look in the .ali file, where presumably list of dependencies for a compiled .adb file is stored, but grep would find nothing in the dependencies [15:39]
bvt: in the end, just disabled the restriction. [15:39]
asciilifeform: bvt: which gnat are you using ? i've never observed any such thing ( and i use the same restriction, , ~with~ sequential i/o, ) [15:46]
bvt: i used gnat 2017. will test ffa rng code and see if it works out. [15:57]
diana_coman: I just checked and I can confirm too: that restriction is fine here while using Ada.Sequential_IO [15:57]
diana_coman: bvt, is that adacore's gnat? [15:58]
bvt: that is gnat 2017 with ave1's patches (i.e. musltronic) [15:59]
bvt: but yes, it is adacore -- not the default sad gcc implementation [16:00]
diana_coman: hm, weird now I'm really curious if you get the same complaint with asciilifeform's ffa (or my smg comms for that matter) [16:01]
bvt: just tested ffa-8 where rng was introduced -- it works fine. would be trying to understand what is wrong with my code, then [16:10]
mircea_popescu: bvt what is the actual underlying that ended up summarized as ? [16:17]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 20:39 bvt: found and unexpected problem that specialization of Ada.Sequential_IO conflicts with Restriction(No_Unchecked_Access) in the test applications. [16:17]
bvt: i have structured the base64 tree as a directory with a library and example applications only library is supposed to be compiled with restrictions, but some restrictions propagate to applications as well [16:22]
bvt: No_Unchecked_Access is such restriction i have tested a dummy application that does nothing but import and instantiate/specialize Ada.Sequential_IO instance for the datatype from base64 library. test application fails to compile, [16:27]
mircea_popescu: hm [16:28]
bvt: to clarify: base64 lib and applications are two separate gprbuild projects, -gnatec=base64/restrict.adc flag is only in the library project [16:34]
asciilifeform: << aaand anothr, [17:12]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 17:19 asciilifeform: in other noose, yet another found : >>> [17:12]
deedbot: << Qntra - Onboard SSD Crypto Demonstrated To Be Homeopathic On Numerous Drives [17:21]
asciilifeform: bahahaha [17:25]
BingoBoingo: Ticking marketing checkboxes in sequence is its own reward [17:26]
asciilifeform: there are exactly 0 genuine-crypto hdd on heathen market, you can take this to the bank. [17:45]
asciilifeform: ( there's an unofficial fatwa against it, or sumthing ) [17:46]
asciilifeform: ( a la ) [17:46]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-28 05:02 mircea_popescu: i have 0 expectation it will do anythingf besides create a lot of idle wank in "law enforcement" circles. [17:46]
bvt: ok, i have figured out one solution to the problem (at least on gnat 2017): can't have Ada.Sequential_IO specialization in the GPR_Project'Main file [17:47]
bvt: when i moved all ada.S_IO usage to a separate package/file, everything worked fine [17:47]
bvt: otoh, when i added a single line 'package SIO is new Ada.Sequential_IO(Positive)' to ffa_calc.adb, it errored out during the compilation in the same way [17:48]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> there are exactly 0 genuine-crypto hdd on heathen market, you can take this to the bank. << It's the assumption so safe it's not worth verifying unless your marginal University is trolling for headlines [17:48]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: loox like they actually reversed some fw shitware, godly work [17:49]
asciilifeform: ( of course it will be 'patched' and Officially Cured and Stop Asking Questions, Terrorist etc. shortly ) [17:49]
BingoBoingo: Well, hopefully they now that they have this niche that gets them headlines where they would otherwise have none, they keep pursuing it [17:50]
BingoBoingo: In other heathen headlines: Apparently Llamas (as opposed to alpacas) might have the proteins necessary for a universal flu vaccine [17:51]
asciilifeform: bvt: pretty weird. sounds like you uncovered some bugolade in the spirit of the earlier . [17:52]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 02:14 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics ) [17:52]
asciilifeform: ( how gnat goes about enforcing the various restrictions, is largely black art at this point, the most i can say is that it seems to 'fail deadly', i.e. ultra-conservatively banhammers yer entire proggy if it fails to satisfy various obscure this-and-not-that conditions ) [17:53]
mircea_popescu: not at all clear to me wth is going on with that io stuff. [17:53]
asciilifeform: really calls for a deep dig into the sores. [17:54]
asciilifeform: overall pattern is frequently 'aha, you banned this ? goodluck using the standard lib nao, where we used it 9000 times'. saw this with e.g. the secondary stack liquishit. [17:55]
BingoBoingo: For want of a LISP machine... we are on track for a fascist superMIPs with bignum coprocessor before the end of Trump's second term. [17:57]
asciilifeform: i also suspect that my use of static linkage exposed buncha implementation strange [17:57]
asciilifeform: ( who outside of us is linking statically... ) [17:57]
bvt: myeah, i solved it by maximally recreating the ffa project structure, so can't say i did anything informed by the 'first principles' there. [17:57]
asciilifeform: bvt: it's structured the way it is, for a reason [17:58]
* asciilifeform did quite a bit of gnat sores archaeology dig [17:58]
bvt: so far i had a look only in the runtime, but never looked into the gcc part [18:00]
asciilifeform: bvt: i structured it so that the moar-restriction-y stuff ends up in static libs that get linked ~into~ the less-restrictiony demolade ( rather than vice-versa ), and so that the lib is statically linkable to begin with [18:02]
asciilifeform: this pattern is not really escapable if yer using the restrictions [18:02]
asciilifeform: some language features seem to break the 'encapsulability' , e.g. finalization [18:03]
asciilifeform: i dun have a pill for this yet [18:03]
asciilifeform: ( it's not a wholly useless thing, i dun have it in current ffa but my 1st draft used it to wipe all data on the stack erry time it goes out of scope ) [18:03]
asciilifeform: current ffa relies on the user/caller to wipe [18:04]
asciilifeform: the standard, btw, does not say any such thing as 'using finalization breaks staticity', it seems to be 100% gnat breakage rather than 'standard forbids' [18:05]
asciilifeform: ( for old c/cpp dogs : 'finalization' is analogous to 'destructor' ) [18:05]
bvt: i dunno if gnat people even tried to implement finalization for static libs/bins. i guess cpp supports destructors in statically linked code? [18:07]
asciilifeform: bvt: of course it does, trb is 100% static-linked and has plenty [18:07]
asciilifeform: gnat is entirely ok with finalization in lib so long as the finalized type aint exported [18:08]
asciilifeform: but thus far seems to break if it is [18:08]
asciilifeform: ( which is why my mmap thing aint posted yet ) [18:08]
asciilifeform: the 1 workaround i've found is to make the lib 100% generic 'all the way down', but it's ugly imho [18:09]
asciilifeform: ( what 'genericism' does in ada, is to force the compiler to rebuild a copy of the lib for erry time the exported type is invoked in the caller. at which point may as well tell user to drop the src into his, rather than link the lib, the effect is the same ) [18:10]
asciilifeform: the latter suxx because it infects the caller with the full pragma-restrictiveness of the lib. [18:10]
asciilifeform: ( whereas troo static linkage does not ) [18:10]
asciilifeform: it isn't actually practical, as i currently understand, to build a large, nontrivial proggy with all of the restrict pragmas switched on. [18:11]
asciilifeform: hence 'make this linkable' dances. [18:12]
asciilifeform: the standard specifically promises that restrictions can be applied to narrow sections of coad. therefore gotta be made to work! [18:13]
asciilifeform: i.e. when gnat fails to deliver this, it is properly speaking a gnat bug. [18:13]
bvt: what i have fished out trying to solve the problem is that only a subset of restrictions should be contagious [18:14]
asciilifeform: my aim is to eventually start patching these, rather than cranking out oddball workarounds. [18:14]
bvt: i.e. [18:14]
bvt: of course, > 3/4 of all restrictions are contagious, so you are right [18:16]
asciilifeform: just about all the interesting ones, are, aha [18:16]
asciilifeform: fwiw i've massaged ffa to the point where it's fully static and the problem dun affect it any. but some of my other stuff (mmap) is hobbled by it. [18:17]
mircea_popescu: << this sounds entirely like hack, in the proper sense of term -- someone got lazies attack and "nobody would think to check here". [18:18]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 23:08 asciilifeform: gnat is entirely ok with finalization in lib so long as the finalized type aint exported [18:18]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a completely textbook case, aha, of 'we pulled on the duct tape and after 2 tonnes of pull it comes off' [18:18]
* asciilifeform brb,meat [18:25]
mircea_popescu: speaking of "inconsequential tracts" : i r wondering now just how many of the ustarded "cultural commentators" (the boas-ian wanna-be elite, say) actually did figure out the whole "white racism" in the us is cheap rent re-usage of ww1 german props. [20:00]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-30 13:07 mircea_popescu: << thinking about it, yes i agree the jew-nazi has a more colorful life story. but think about it : his entire's life work, his sum total accomplishment, is being an aide to an obscure publisher of inconsequential tracts. this is exactly danielpbarron 's position, and it ain't much. that florida beauty queen had them beat, for instance, and she had them beat a) in her 20s, while these [20:00]
deedbot: << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/29/2018 [20:00]
mircea_popescu: because they quite literally just picked up the "senegalese" bullshit and morel's daily herald nonsense, blew dust off here and there and that's the whole material. [20:00]
BingoBoingo: Hard to say. The "It's okay to be white" fliers appear to get evergreen press attention any time they pop up which is disappointingly infrequently [20:06]
mircea_popescu: i meant more ye olde "jews conspire to bring black degeneracy into the holy land" [20:08]
mircea_popescu: used to be "heart of europe", but obviously ustard never heard of it. [20:08]
BingoBoingo: Ah, yeah, they don't seem to go back much further than the 1930's [20:10]
BingoBoingo: They also don't borrow much from the rich French and Russian anti-semetic traditions [20:10]
BingoBoingo: As far as I can tell they don't dream of Edward's alt-England either [20:14]
mircea_popescu: nah, it's pretty much all reheated morel. [20:25]
mircea_popescu: which... gimme a fucking break. for one thing, socialist moron. for the other, i have spare tyres that can write better. [20:25]
mircea_popescu: (perhaps pointing out how "the international women's guild" trying to get a sort of geneva convention going banning 4ever and ever smoking^H^H^H^H i mean rape^H^H^H^H using black soldiers in europe never got anywhere worth a chuckle. they didn't believe women back in the [other] 20s or what was it, helga the rhine rivetteer couldn't do it.) [20:54]
mircea_popescu: Mass protest meeting organised by the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, the National Federation of Women Workers, the Federation of Women Teachers, the Women's Co-operative Guild, the Association of Women Clerks and Secretaries and the Fabian Women's Group (tbh that was absolutely everyone) to condemn France for the alleged war crimes committed by the Senegalese. If you're there on April 27 '20, make sure to [20:57]
mircea_popescu: send postcards! [20:57]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's a something-or-other '-of-women-voters' in usa but afaik it's a straight dnc skin [21:17]
mircea_popescu: this was england in the 1920s. [21:18]
mod6: evenin' [21:19]
asciilifeform: yea was clear from context [21:19]
mod6: !!ledger [21:19]
asciilifeform: ohai mod6 [21:19]
mod6: !!sent-invoices [21:19]
deedbot: [21:19]
mod6: how goes alf, mircea_popescu ? [21:19]
deedbot: [21:19]
mircea_popescu: not bad! [21:19]
mod6: Good to hear. Dark and rainy up here. Hope it's better wherever you all are at. :D [21:20]
asciilifeform: mod6: rereading own ffa , from opening shot to 11 [21:20]
mod6: asciilifeform: nice. I really need to get to that. I kinda went through a lot of it while you were working on it - but I really wanna sit down and work through each chapter. Got other things on the stack first tho. [21:20]
asciilifeform: doin' it properly, with chalk & all. [21:21]
mod6: Too many things! [21:21]
mod6: Yeah, I bought a giant whiteboard just for that purpose. [21:21]
asciilifeform: mod6: i have an electric chalkboard thingie, but they're just barely usable, imho, need pretty bright light [21:21]
mod6: interesting. I would have guessed you for a slate + chalk stick like prof at U. [21:22]
mod6: what does the electricity do for ya? [21:22]
asciilifeform: used to [21:22]
asciilifeform: what it does is cut the dust. [21:22]
mod6: ah, kinda was figuring as much. does it work? [21:23]
asciilifeform: sorta worx [21:23]
asciilifeform: can spend the 10bux an' try it yerself [21:23]
mod6: just makes your hair stand up on your arms? [21:23]
asciilifeform: e.g. ( chinesium ) [21:24]
asciilifeform: pretty much a mechanized version of the wax tablets folx used 300yrs ago [21:24]
mod6: ah, neat. [21:25]
asciilifeform: i dunno why nobody's made one that reads black-on-white [21:25]
mod6: I would probably use slate + chalk myself if I wasn't so weirdly obsessive about needing to keep the board clean. I'd feel like I'd have to wash it all the time after erasure. [21:25]
asciilifeform: worst thing, they're ~impossible to keep clean [21:26]
mod6: I dunno, I love to start on a clean board when thinking through things. Otherwise my brain feels some how cluttered. [21:26]
asciilifeform: sorta why i ended up with the electric thing [21:26]
asciilifeform: it gives this aesthetic [21:26]
mod6: *nod* good talk, I gotta step aside and yield the floor. gotta check on these preliminary report numbers. [21:26]
asciilifeform: ( that, & no dust or sponge etc ) [21:27]
mod6: werd. [21:27]
asciilifeform: ( subj, for the innocent , is simply this thing, a sheet of chemical strange that turns green when you push on it with plastic stake 'pencil', and takes a watch battery, so that when you hit red button it turns black again ) [21:30]
asciilifeform: iirc was originally sold by the same folx who baked item but naodays chinese, dime a dozen [21:34]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-08 00:12 asciilifeform: phf: incidentally i found that sharp inc makes b&w lcd's that run on 0power when holding picture, and beautiful 100% reflector-powered picture. but their biggest is iirc 4 in. and 336 × 536 . [21:34]
BingoBoingo: So, during beach walk tonight one of the locals nearly lost a young ~30 pound pit bull [21:44]
mircea_popescu: maybe he should add one of those whistling attachments to it. [21:51]
BingoBoingo: Oh he was doing the thing where he let it run off leash on the dogs prohibited beach, whistling it back. [21:52]
BingoBoingo: But twice it cut aggressive angles as I had to wonder if my foot was going through its head or was I going to have to seperate its head from its body with the box cutter before walking myself to the emergencia [21:53]
BingoBoingo: or taxi stand [21:53]
BingoBoingo: Which would have been a shame because it appeared to be a fine energetic young pupper [21:56]
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