Forum logs for 02 Nov 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
asciilifeform: << in other malwares. [10:03]
asciilifeform: in very elsewheres, << for folx who like languages. [10:12]
asciilifeform: in quite other vintage lulz, >> 'The United States lost this war, after Brinkley veered off into Nazi politics. He became a Hitler sympathizer, dropping the good-doctor act for a different kind of mass psychology... ...The US government had put up with goat glands, but those didn't sabotage FDR's efforts to swing pre-war, public opinion over to the Allies. This was way more serious stuff. It did [10:22]
asciilifeform: Brinkley in... the Brinkley Act, still vigorously enforced today, banning any cross-border studio-transmitter links originating in the US, including Doc's phone lines. From this point on, border blasters had do do it all from their side. A Mexican station was run off the air for this as recently as the 1990s.' [10:22]
asciilifeform: ( tldr : mexico in 1940s had no radio gestapo. this was used by folx in usa to circumvent the fcc racket, until quashed by fdr decree. ) [10:24]
deedbot: << Ossasepia - First Timings of a Basic RSA-tron [11:12]
* mod6 looks [11:12]
asciilifeform: oh hey hey hey lbj ! [11:12]
asciilifeform: this is pretty neat, diana_coman [11:13]
diana_coman: :) thanks asciilifeform and once again a big thank you for carving out that mpi part - it helped a LOT [11:16]
diana_coman: I gotta run now for a few hours but I'll be back later if there are any obs/comments on it [11:17]
asciilifeform: 1s, about to post [11:18]
asciilifeform: [11:19]
asciilifeform: also 1.1s seems like a pretty long time for a 4096b modexp on traditional mpi. [11:20]
asciilifeform: plz consider posting your test harness, diana_coman [11:21]
diana_coman: hmm, I'll check again all the way at a first look it is as stated but will look and get back on this [11:22]
diana_coman: makes sense to post the code too though it'll end up in that annoying cycle of versioning since it's far from any final state [11:23]
asciilifeform: 1+ sec is moar in ffa ballpark than heathentron's [11:23]
asciilifeform: do what asciilifeform does, post barbaric paste. [11:23]
mod6: diana_coman: nice write up! [11:27]
asciilifeform: aha, quality [11:28]
asciilifeform: ( though i would very much like to see how the seemingly backward decrypt/encrypt time cost diff came about ) [11:29]
asciilifeform: >> << for n00bs : rsa-cum-crt , as seen in koch's gpg-1.4.10 [11:30]
asciilifeform: i.e. you get a speedup on seekrit-op modexp ( but not on public-op modexp ) because you know p and q . [11:31]
asciilifeform: now perhaps diana_coman replaced the thing with mpi_powm( output, input, skey->d, skey->n ) or equiv. -- but then speed of encrypt and decrypt ought to be ~equal~ [11:33]
asciilifeform: so i have nfi [11:33]
asciilifeform: also the expected speedup from crt is ~4-fold, not 100-fold... [11:35]
asciilifeform: !~calc 1.1082 / 0.0112 [11:35]
jhvh1: asciilifeform: 1.1082 / 0.0112 = 98.94642857142858 [11:35]
asciilifeform: mightystrange. [11:35]
asciilifeform: !~ticker --market all [13:13]
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 6921.45, vol: 26270.26633989 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 6897.8, vol: 96963.3613234 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 6927.4, vol: 7339.36388112 | Volume-weighted last average: 6904.22197869 [13:13]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [13:20]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 6951.95, vol: 26297.12841144 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 6936.0, vol: 97023.69084883 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 6960.0, vol: 7368.49364617 | Volume-weighted last average: 6940.5625999 [13:20]
* BingoBoingo doing work on physical plant, connection may be intermittent over next day [13:30]
BingoBoingo: << per Elliot, math is so unfair [13:32]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 15:20 asciilifeform: also 1.1s seems like a pretty long time for a 4096b modexp on traditional mpi. [13:32]
asciilifeform: lol [13:36]
BingoBoingo: If math was fair, Elloit would have already had an ffa for asciilifeform [13:37]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: how's the brazil thing going [13:40]
asciilifeform: ( or nao peru ?? ) [13:40]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Still wringing number out of people [13:41]
BingoBoingo: Using the time waiting for people to people to clean up and condense physical plant here for greater portability [13:43]
BingoBoingo: How goes your Rokatu-expat quest [13:44]
diana_coman: <asciilifeform> >> << for n00bs : rsa-cum-crt , as seen in koch's gpg-1.4.10 <- aha, that's what I use, yes anyways, will comb the thing again a bit later today and then get back with something concrete [13:45]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: still snarfing up ro lang 'read head' worx, but training 'write head' on wrong side of planet not trivial [13:47]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: does it make sense why asciilifeform went 'wtf, backward' / [13:47]
asciilifeform: ? [13:47]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, it does hence my going "I have to comb this all way through again" [13:48]
diana_coman: will see if I screwed it up entirely or what [13:49]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you paste it i can prolly say immediately where. [13:49]
asciilifeform: oh hey look who wasn't eaten! [13:54]
diana_coman: hm, public rsa uses mpi_powm secret rsa uses crc still though 100 fold [13:54]
diana_coman: hmm [13:54]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Have you tried talking to a few meters of audio track? [13:55]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: do you have a disk access or some other oops in there, i wunder [13:55]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun have enough lsd to have conversation with a tape, lol [13:56]
BingoBoingo: !!up mircea_popescu [13:56]
deedbot: mircea_popescu voiced for 30 minutes. [13:56]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, this is the ugly rsa.c used fwiw [13:56]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: not only you have 100fold diff, but ~wrong direction~ [13:56]
mircea_popescu: o hai. [13:57]
BingoBoingo: o hai [13:57]
asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu ! [13:57]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this looks almost virginal, the oddity is prolly in wherever you invoke it [13:57]
* mircea_popescu proceeds to logs. [13:57]
asciilifeform: ( i dun see any invocations of secret_rsa in there ) [13:57]
mircea_popescu: << cool. i never had a license, cuz diff era but had machinery. [13:58]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 16:07 trinque had a ham radio license once upon a time [13:58]
mircea_popescu: it was a whole subculture, you'd try and talk to people then send postcards as a sort of early deedbotting [13:58]
diana_coman: well yes, basically at rsa stage all I had to change was at generating keys aka source of random bits the rest was just identifying the relevant parts and nothing more [13:58]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this tradition still lives, with the postcards [13:59]
mircea_popescu: ah ? i'd have expected early internet victim [13:59]
asciilifeform: 'hamism' is a land apart from time, nearly. [13:59]
asciilifeform: frozen in amber. [13:59]
mircea_popescu: where was that part about "frozen diff bits of original lang" [14:00]
BingoBoingo: Hamster even conveniently put call sign on RV license plate [14:00]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, this is literally the bit counting : [14:00]
* diana_coman idly wonders if any huge snakes swallow crocodiles [14:01]
* asciilifeform looks [14:01]
mircea_popescu: << -- >> [14:01]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 16:21 asciilifeform: asciilifeform finds it more than a little puzzling how little of past 30y of cheap cpu, has been put to use in advancing illicit radio -- where is the dc-to-daylight cryptospreadspectrum pirate ? why idjits still on fixed frequencies, like it were 1930s today ? [14:01]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 16:30 phf: scussions, but also any kind of attempt at crypto communication. there was nothing to say all along. [14:01]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Immigrant snakes in Florida will die swallowing alligators, but haven't seen anything about crocs [14:02]
mircea_popescu: we're ~the first group with something to actually say. [14:02]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman crocodile is too fast for snake. [14:02]
mircea_popescu: i know it doesn't look it, but, crocodile is one of the fastest predators apex predator everywhere it exists. [14:02]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, interesting do alligators survive that though? [14:02]
shinohai: In other "Encryption is for terrorists" news: [14:03]
mircea_popescu: whereas the only sort of snake that'd bother it even conceivably is constrictor definitionally slow. [14:03]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I don't recall. [14:03]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu,I know it to be uber-fast in water dunno on land either way, never saw one in its habitat [14:03]
mircea_popescu: they lurch see. [14:03]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: didja actually verify the decryptions' equality to the original input to encrypt ? [14:03]
diana_coman: yes but after recording the time [14:03]
diana_coman: I even have those in a file too (i.e. each run, data, encrypted, decrypted [14:03]
asciilifeform: because i see a public_rsa(out1, msg, &pkey) but then a secret_rsa( out2, out1, skey ) [14:04]
diana_coman: honestly, it's prolly faster to go through it again and then post it all and then take it from there [14:04]
diana_coman: yes, msg is original data out1 is encrypted out2 is decrypted [14:04]
mircea_popescu: now on the other hand, BABY crocodiles are universally fodder, birds eat them, fish eat them. huge infant mortality among crocs. [14:04]
asciilifeform: whereas declared as void public_rsa(MPI output, MPI input, RSA_public_key *pkey ) and void secret_rsa(MPI output, MPI input, RSA_secret_key *skey ) [14:04]
asciilifeform: i.e. both take ptr [14:04]
diana_coman: ah, yes, that's just because the public key is a local var filled with the stuff from private [14:04]
diana_coman: the private thing basically holds anything anyway [14:05]
asciilifeform: hm ok [14:05]
diana_coman: lemme just cut the fluff and then will post [14:05]
asciilifeform: what's clock() [14:05]
diana_coman: c function from time.h [14:05]
diana_coman: cpu clock ticks supposedly [14:06]
asciilifeform: uhoh [14:06]
diana_coman: from the post: Durations are given as CPU time in seconds, as reported by the clock() function (time.h) and calculated as ( (double) (end – start) ) / CLOCKS_PER_SEC where end is the value returned by clock() right before starting the RSA operation and end() is the value returned by clock() right after returning from the RSA operation [14:06]
asciilifeform: yes well [14:06]
asciilifeform: on some boxes the output for short intervals is essentially random [14:07]
diana_coman: uhm what do you suggest I use? [14:07]
asciilifeform: theoretically [14:08]
asciilifeform: but i still have the feeling that this is red herring [14:08]
diana_coman: hm, I'd be surprised if it gets wildly different results but that would be in itself something...interesting I guess [14:11]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: is out1 perchance ever equal to out2 ? [14:13]
asciilifeform: ( same buffer ) [14:13]
mod6: do you have metrics from a baseline of an unaltered gpgtron? [14:13]
mod6: could then compare your results to that and see. [14:13]
diana_coman: mod6, I couldn't find some that are directly comparable aka only the rsa ops as such [14:13]
asciilifeform: mod6: what diana_coman has is as close as fathomable to a virginal gpg where you can still make such a test [14:14]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, they are not moreover the log shows clearly that encrypted stuff is different basically [14:14]
diana_coman: encrypted being out1 [14:14]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: aite. you will notice that public_rsa mallocs if it finds that the output buffer is same as input [14:14]
diana_coman: yes, I know [14:15]
danielpbarron: !~later tell BingoBoingo [14:16]
jhvh1: danielpbarron: The operation succeeded. [14:16]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: quite a puzzler then: all of the most obvious mistakes, ruled out [14:16]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: to rule out timer artifacts, can make item that, e.g., carries out 1,000 decrypts, timed with ordinary unix time cmd then same where 1,000 encrypts [14:21]
asciilifeform: this is relatively insensitive to clock precision [14:22]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, possibly I managed to screw it up in an even more basic way here's the test function itself (this one gets called repeatedly for each key and each message) [14:22]
diana_coman: [14:22]
asciilifeform: uh [14:23]
asciilifeform: pkey.n = skey->n [14:23]
asciilifeform: pkey.e = skey->e [14:23]
asciilifeform: i am more than a little bit surprised that this didn't bomb [14:23]
diana_coman: hm, I looked at it and it did not but let's check [14:24]
diana_coman: with a proper copy [14:24]
asciilifeform: and msg is always zero ?! [14:25]
asciilifeform: or hm nm [14:25]
diana_coman: no, it's not [14:25]
asciilifeform: aha i see it [14:26]
asciilifeform: i see no obvious explanation for the oddity... [14:27]
mircea_popescu: << ok, but don't count republican accounting in fiatola yes you have an underprotection clause, but it's an ancillary, beloings in a footnote. [14:27]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 17:54 BingoBoingo: Rewrite in works << No good reason. << No, attempting to list the advance as a debt by recreating necessary TMSR accounting out of log fragments << Will try not juggling network topology in forebrain when rewriting << There will be rug [14:27]
mircea_popescu: don't worry about it, trial and error, i'll ask questions until i'm out. [14:28]
mircea_popescu: you keep redoing lol [14:28]
diana_coman: so, changed those 2 lines to pkey.n = mpi_copy(skey->n) and pkey.e = mpi_copy(skey->e) correct? [14:28]
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: ty I'll get to your message when physical plant allows [14:29]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Ah, ty. [14:29]
diana_coman: so far results similar in any case aka using public still 0.01... while private afterwards 1.0... [14:29]
asciilifeform: brainmelting [14:29]
asciilifeform: prolly time for gprof. [14:30]
mircea_popescu: did you two run into a fucking portability issue of all things ? [14:30]
BingoBoingo: brb, mains! [14:30]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody yet knows. [14:30]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, so far the ~only part iffy is perhaps choice of timer basically [14:30]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman do you have something idiotic like say ntp correcting your clock mid-stride maybe ? [14:30]
* mircea_popescu strawpulling [14:31]
diana_coman: but in a few hours I'll have more uninterrupted time on my hands and I'll be able to go a bit deeper into it [14:31]
asciilifeform: !!up apeloyee [14:32]
deedbot: apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes. [14:32]
apeloyee: asciilifeform: don't be silly, the discrepancy is due to using low public exponent [14:32]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: why would this make crt a 100x ~slower~ op , instead of 4x faster [14:33]
mircea_popescu: holy... [14:33]
mircea_popescu: !!rated apeloyee [14:33]
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated apeloyee 1 at 2017/09/20 22:18:33 << Makes alf re-read. [14:33]
asciilifeform: we weren't comparing gpgmpi to ffa but gpg.publicmodexp vs gpg.privatemodexp [14:34]
apeloyee: it's _encryption_ that's unreasonably fast, due to using 65537 as exponent [14:34]
mircea_popescu: !!rate apeloyee 2 might be the smartest guy here, actually. [14:34]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [14:34]
apeloyee: decryption is forced to do full-size exponentiation [14:35]
asciilifeform: defo apeloyee has better reading comprehension. i entirely missed the line where diana_coman clearly wrote, she used 65537 [14:35]
asciilifeform: so yes [14:35]
mircea_popescu: i r impressed, also missed.\ [14:36]
asciilifeform: i nominate this d00d to replace me when i'm killed. [14:36]
mircea_popescu: whole fucking point of intelligence is not to miss. [14:36]
asciilifeform: of a good sapper at any rate. [14:37]
mircea_popescu: on a side note, if you ever wondered whence the "transhumanist" etc-rationalistrs come from, check out this little gem teh loney uncovered in my absence : [14:37]
asciilifeform: dafuq is ikigai [14:38]
mircea_popescu: << cable comms work well in some situations, with spools and runners as deployed in ww2. yes cable can be cut -- by the time it is you're gone anyway. [14:38]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 18:18 asciilifeform: they are imho an intrinsically usgistic item -- costly, fragile, vulnerable, conspicuous. [14:38]
diana_coman: oh my thank you apeloyee [14:38]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dafuq is anything else. what, you understand "transhumanism" but not "dfhgkerjhtkr" ? [14:39]
mircea_popescu: they're words they use. [14:39]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i wrongly assumed you had fuckgoats output for exponent just same as for key [14:39]
asciilifeform: because this was in the tentative 'standard' as a variant [14:39]
asciilifeform: and entirely missed the line in the orig article stating that this was not so... [14:39]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's spamology tho, not broken modem, generally there's some consistency neh [14:40]
mircea_popescu: the rationale is that there ~might~ be some approaches based on pre-established exponents. this is vague, but still, why magic number. [14:40]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have not yet managed to find the 1 ton of earthworms required to put through the blenders so as to extract the definition of any of these nuts' terms. [14:41]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cables also work well in another context: cuckolding. if you know what yer doing you can ride signal on top of , e.g., cable tv lines, or whatever derperies of the landscape [14:41]
mircea_popescu: the advantage of small batshit cults is that there's not enough of them to discover where they self-contradict. [14:41]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in ffa world, you don't lose anything by using a W-bit prime for the public exponent. [14:42]
mircea_popescu: (kinda why historically these were "secrets", from eleusis to scientology. the less material, the easier the complexity load) [14:42]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i know. from the pov of rsa-being-attacked, it's probably better to have non-standard exponent than "everyone uses 65537" [14:42]
asciilifeform: aha, and the wider, the better. [14:42]
mircea_popescu: but this is nothing i can prove in any degree of particuliar. [14:43]
asciilifeform: the only thing you can prove is that it dun cost you nuffin. [14:43]
mircea_popescu: this, yes. [14:43]
asciilifeform: ( other than the basic cost of using ffa ) [14:43]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, guess my next run will have to be with an fg-generated exponent as well it's not a big deal to add that now but this was very first run of the very minimal thing [14:43]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i expect that you will find the expected 4:1 result then. [14:43]
mircea_popescu: yee. [14:43]
asciilifeform: it will be very interesting if not. [14:43]
diana_coman: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform no, i know. from the pov of rsa-being-attacked, it's probably better to have non-standard exponent than "everyone uses 65537" <- this [14:43]
mircea_popescu: also it will have the interesting side effect of exposinbg the shit quality of the imperial hardware/software stacks whenever they try to use our keypairs. [14:44]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the folx with custom rsa-bruting silicon , i expect are pissing themselves as we speak [14:44]
mircea_popescu: i expect a full half of extant rsatrons simply crash if exponent 1kbit [14:44]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: at the very least they will sit around mallocing for a good spell [14:45]
apeloyee: fwiw, I understand "transhumanist" as "fantasising about entities which are non-human except in the ways dear to me (which in practice will mean they're either impossible or are just broken humans)" work? [14:45]
mircea_popescu: apeloyee but does this heuristic pass your own criteria for what a definition is ? [14:45]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: as i understand it was originally 'what if we had memory implants' etc. [14:45]
mircea_popescu: i also have a vague sense of which categories of psychogenic noise are involved, but... [14:45]
asciilifeform: bastard child of 'intelligence amplification' as imagined in 1970s, when 'computer won't suck' was still possible to easily contemplate [14:46]
mircea_popescu: a perfectly valid alt-approach would be to say "transhumanist" is how the new generation of idiots (that call themselves socialists) call "the new man". [14:46]
mircea_popescu: lenin, also "transhumanist" [14:46]
apeloyee: not really, but then fantasies don't need rigorous definition [14:46]
mircea_popescu: actually, fantasies are rigorously defined, yes. [14:46]
mircea_popescu: there's such a thing as a classification of insanity loci. [14:47]
asciilifeform: fantasies of stupid folx tend to resolve to some simple combo of physiological hungers being satisfied [14:47]
asciilifeform: ( iirc mircea_popescu had a piece re subj ) [14:47]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: upstack, it becomes clear that koch put in crt strictly so that gpg can shit out your private key when uncorrected memory flip [14:49]
asciilifeform: because that's the only thing it accomplishes here [14:49]
apeloyee: but you ripped asm, which gpg would usually use, no? [14:49]
apeloyee: *ripped out [14:50]
asciilifeform: i did. however this affects both priv and pub op equally [14:50]
apeloyee: would need to check the no-crt version [14:52]
asciilifeform: pretty easy to do, flip the 0 to 1 in the quoted snippet. [14:52]
asciilifeform: ( incidentally there will be no crtism in ffa . ) [14:52]
asciilifeform: though i suppose if someone wants to write pcode for a crtistic rsa, i cannot stop him [14:53]
apeloyee: because that's the only thing it accomplishes here << how did you come to this conclusion [14:56]
apeloyee: incidentally, how about ? [14:58]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-11 19:10 asciilifeform: incidentally if this were me, i'd make a voyage-only wot key, rate it +1, then at the end, when getting back to home, sign statement 'my voyage key was uneventfully used N times and then incinerated' or 'pygmies stole my voyage key K and signed audacious forgeries F1, F2...' depending on how it went. [14:58]
asciilifeform: i suppose can disagree if diff b/w 4 and 1 sec matters, lol [14:58]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i actually did this the other day. it was publicly used 0 times. [14:58]
asciilifeform: ( ) [14:59]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 17:20 deedbot: asciilifeform unrated ascii_in_orcland. [14:59]
asciilifeform: ( well, technically 1 time, but prior to voyage. ) [14:59]
apeloyee: how's 'p' going? still 'need GCD!!!11one'? [15:00]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i used your barrettism [15:01]
asciilifeform: ( iirc posted 2wk or so ago ) [15:01]
asciilifeform: still gotta finish the , yes, gcd, then miller-rabin, then autotests, then that's it [15:02]
asciilifeform: !!up apeloyee [15:02]
deedbot: apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes. [15:02]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform did not touch ffa/p at all other than on airplane, in past wk [15:03]
apeloyee: you wanted modexp in <1s, do you consider current 2s OK? [15:03]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: it's <1s already on just about any comp the readers are likely to have. 2s on my 2009 opteron. [15:04]
asciilifeform: i'ma also try unrolled comba, to compare, but do not want to spend eons on this type of massage, it can happen after release of p. [15:05]
asciilifeform: ( i already have, and posted, an unrolled comba -- see august log. ) [15:05]
asciilifeform: it was approx 30% faster on mult per se. [15:05]
apeloyee: what gcd did you choose? [15:06]
asciilifeform: currently puzzling over the one apeloyee posted [15:07]
apeloyee: problems? [15:07]
asciilifeform: problems closing the 'and here we omit' holes [15:09]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: if you have an updated ver repaste plox. [15:09]
apeloyee: no, don't have, sorry. [15:09]
asciilifeform: aite. [15:10]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: don't hesitate to write in if you find one. [15:12]
asciilifeform: this goes for the other eagle eyes likewise. [15:12]
asciilifeform: i promise to actually read instead of allergically barfing. [15:13]
apeloyee: asciilifeform: problem is I have nfi what's non-obvious to you. I thought most things i posted was obvious, but apparently not [15:19]
asciilifeform: nonobvious i found the aspect where it's supposed to be faster than naive gcd [15:20]
asciilifeform: (that is, naive gcd with muxed output rather than the ordinary conditional termination) [15:20]
apeloyee: the division in ffa is slow [15:21]
apeloyee: that's why [15:21]
asciilifeform: btw iirc at one time apeloyee posted a newtonian divider, using secretbitcount and secretshift, but the paste got gc'd and it seems i dun have a copy... [15:22]
* asciilifeform prolly oughta set up a perlism to fetch all pastes and save locally, because this is getting ridiculous [15:23]
apeloyee: it was only an idea for the same, not actual description [15:23]
asciilifeform: idea is ok. [15:23]
asciilifeform: i suspect that 'naive' gcd with newtonian divider will be goodenuff speedwise. [15:25]
apeloyee: my copies of stuff I pasted only has a header entitled "1. Reciprocal calculation by Newton's method", but no content [15:26]
asciilifeform: ugh [15:26]
asciilifeform: fortunately mr newton wrote it down... [15:26]
asciilifeform: in other impressive-if-true tech, >> 'Olivia is one of the most robust methods of text keyboarding, that can perform superbly for long distance communications in ionospheric noise conditions where other modes fail. It is possible to communicate worldwide using Olivia with as little as a few watts of transmitter power... Olivia is different from some other types of amateur radio digital keyboarding methods, be [15:32]
asciilifeform: cause it can often be decoded perfectly in the most poor signal-to-noise conditions, even when the human ear cannot discern the presence of the signal, and even when it cannot be easily seen on the conventional waterfall spectrum display' [15:32]
asciilifeform: ^ per asciilifeform's current understanding, thing is untriangulable unless enemy knows the freq keying pattern, or is standing in the near field of your transmitter. [15:33]
ben_vulpes: ho ho [15:36]
apeloyee: and as usual, "to use it, download this here windows turd". [15:36]
ben_vulpes: how does it work? [15:36]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i dun think anyone here would seriously consider using the turd [15:36]
apeloyee: how does it work? <<magic! [15:36]
ben_vulpes: >> 404 [15:36]
asciilifeform: reversing wtf it does, is on asciilifeform's conveyor. [15:37]
apeloyee: how about designing your own [15:37]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i found the thing in the course of designing own. [15:37]
asciilifeform: multi-year thing. [15:37]
asciilifeform: every once in a while i find the dessicated corpses of folx who were doing evidently ~same thing i was. [15:37]
apeloyee: one reason those seem impressive is that classical analog modes are so inefficient. [15:38]
asciilifeform: indeed [15:38]
apeloyee: \read condition of shannon's noisy channel coding theorem, compare with what clssic modes do, and weep. [15:39]
asciilifeform: ideally what one'd like is item that is not physically distinguishable from thermal noise to anyone without the key. [15:40]
apeloyee: needs more wide spectrum [15:41]
apeloyee: that that olivia thing [15:41]
asciilifeform: can't be too wide or you get propagation (and multipath) problems [15:42]
asciilifeform: most of spectrum is not esp. desirable real estate if you want 1000s of km through air [15:43]
apeloyee: you will have to deal with multipath . narrow spectrum modes is just pretending problem doesn't exist, they just stop working on destructive interference [15:43]
asciilifeform: can deal with it same as with everything else, by lubycode-cum-rsa (i.e. distiller of signal from noise , followed by authenticator ) [15:44]
apeloyee: if you accept ~ minute latency, perharps. [15:45]
asciilifeform: days is ok. [15:45]
asciilifeform: the q remains of how one might hide a 100kW transmission from hitler. 1 possible method is to mimic the noise of a natural phenomenon, like lightning strike. [15:45]
asciilifeform: another is to mimic a common source of crapola, e.g. defective electric motors. [15:46]
mircea_popescu: << you'll note that it's unclear whether the millions us spent to tap produced a net profit for the us or su side. [15:46]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 18:31 asciilifeform: didn't save su cable in sea of japan from 'ivy bells' . [15:46]
mircea_popescu: in any case the untapping cost what, 50k ? [15:46]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is difficult to reason about 'was doing x to su +ev' -- sorta like you shoot a man, but he dies of fright first, and then ask whether bullet was wasted [15:47]
apeloyee: the third is to spread it over several tens of MHz. [15:47]
mircea_popescu: part of the reason the us believed su is nuclear-capable though. [15:47]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: it is not clear to me that 'tens' suffices [15:49]
asciilifeform: for 'below noise floor' [15:49]
mircea_popescu: << no but the 2012 statement doesn't count because it was you know "unfairly" too soon. only the 2017 restatement counts, because CORRECT COLOR OF BITS!11 [15:49]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 18:34 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the world of 'totally not stolen from #t', [15:49]
mircea_popescu: and other imperial halucinaria. [15:49]
asciilifeform: at any rate drawing a plot like should not be possible for proper item. [15:50]
mircea_popescu: but, for they interested in ancient history, the phillip g potter dood was there at c1, trying to sell his stuff. it didn't take. [15:50]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's lately a bacchanalia of 'totally not phuctor'ism, i only linked a few representative turds [15:50]
asciilifeform: waitasec whossat [15:50]
mircea_popescu: named in the linked item. [15:51]
mircea_popescu: "consultant" or w/e. [15:51]
asciilifeform: aaa [15:51]
asciilifeform: aaaaaaa [15:51]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform eggoged internally, thought $link was to the primes thing on same day. [15:51]
mircea_popescu: << hey, this is exactly how we got "out democracy". all dem experts with human rights, by virtue of turds that sat themselves right next to genuine article. [15:52]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 19:11 asciilifeform: and to shelve them right next to actuals. [15:52]
* asciilifeform still palpably brainfucked after $expedition [15:52]
mircea_popescu: << o.O that was a long ti,e [15:53]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 19:46 doppler: haha, the last list item is great [15:53]
mircea_popescu: time* [15:53]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i find it worth noting that doppler reappeared immediately after asciilifeform unrated for inactivity [15:53]
mircea_popescu: << it always had a front as sewing machine producer etc. [15:53]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 20:19 asciilifeform: << public statements, interestingly. [15:53]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'i keep bringing home parts but always get maxim!!' (tm)(r) [15:53]
mircea_popescu: quite [15:53]
mircea_popescu: << romania sold arms independently in the 90s. extremely profitable. then "joined nato", extremely not profitable anymore, but hey, "we're all part of a greater thing" and other consolations.\ [15:54]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 20:19 asciilifeform: went, apparently, into the black, when absorbed into the reich machine. [15:54]
asciilifeform: they mega-sold, even to hobbyists in usa [15:55]
asciilifeform: but nomoar. [15:55]
mircea_popescu: << ahaha an exception amirite ? "effective counsel is sufficient cause to remove attorney-client priviledge!111" [15:55]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 19:47 BingoBoingo: And in other SOPs Sopping slop: "Chief Judge Beryl A. Howell of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia had agreed to allow Robert Mueller to use something called the crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege to compel testimony from an attorney who formerly represented Paul Manafort and Manafort’s onetime employee Rick Gates." [15:55]
asciilifeform: ( ro kalash was eeeverywhere for a while in early 2010s ) [15:55]
mircea_popescu: tell you what : criminal lawyer either uses rsa or isn't. [15:55]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. part and parcel of the great benefits romania derived from it's great loving western neighbour stealing all its shit. [15:56]
asciilifeform: ymean eastern [15:56]
asciilifeform: ( at least on my globe... ) [15:57]
mircea_popescu: us is western to romania. [15:57]
asciilifeform: hm i thought was re su [15:57]
asciilifeform: and the yellowcake. [15:57]
mircea_popescu: well, in the 50s su stole romania's u-quartz, grain, train cars etc. [15:58]
asciilifeform: what did us steal? it can't have been the gurlz, they were still there on sunday [15:58]
asciilifeform: ah hm. [15:58]
mircea_popescu: in the 00s us stole romania's nuclear tech, fine mechanics plants, etc. [15:58]
mircea_popescu: differences entirely absent. [15:58]
asciilifeform: i went into campus of 'umt' in timis, it was fascinating [15:58]
asciilifeform: massive townlet of abandoned pripyat-style megafactory, with a little modern thing in the middle making bmw transmissions [15:58]
mircea_popescu: <<< it's deliberately "simple english" "patriotism" stuff. [15:58]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 20:46 asciilifeform: i'll let the actual ro-boriginals settle this one, lol [15:58]
mircea_popescu: history-less item, basicalyl a sort of advertisment. [15:59]
mircea_popescu: petrocheese, in a word. [15:59]
asciilifeform: hence [15:59]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 20:31 asciilifeform: ^ approx. a ro-flavoured 'широка страна моя родная'. [15:59]
asciilifeform: it stuck to asciilifeform's head precisely because screaming sovokism [15:59]
mircea_popescu: well, no, inasmuch as that was made by and for the local soviets. [15:59]
apeloyee: fwiw pediwikia claims that Olivia is designed to resist multipath: [16:00]
mircea_popescu: this is more like "usg pr experts reusing superficial arrangements of ro folklore" [16:00]
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i'm not so fixated on 'olivia' per se, but the principle. [16:00]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey, at least it beats bush's 'and i luvv to live in amerikka, where at least iknow i'm phreee!111' [16:00]
mircea_popescu: << nb. i vaguely recall discussing the old ro instruments at some point. [16:01]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-01 21:00 davout: gets actually started after a minute or so [16:01]
asciilifeform: ( i fughet the title, it was pestilential ) [16:01]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they do know they're free, so... [16:01]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman is m-r upper-bounded by 1/4 ^ 12 ? or lower ? [16:04]
asciilifeform: in other ancient rf lulz, nazis had 'hellschreiber', a kind of skytale for spectrum [16:08]
asciilifeform: ( skitale ? ) [16:08]
mircea_popescu: the spartan item ? [16:08]
asciilifeform: aha it [16:08]
a111: Logged on 2017-08-09 17:59 mircea_popescu: basically they had this early elliptic curve crypto, implemented as an arbitrary cone on which they wrapped a string. because the string is fixed length see, whereas the section of cone is not. [16:08]
mircea_popescu: fun fact : most actual applciations were lazy, used plain stick. [16:09]
asciilifeform: << subj [16:09]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha equiv to today's dud keys lol [16:09]
mircea_popescu: (cylinder scytale trivially broken using two rigid sticks -- alter distance) [16:10]
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg [16:10]
mircea_popescu: justsayin'. "convenience", 500 bc, 2000 ad. [16:10]
apeloyee: i find it worth noting that doppler reappeared immediately after asciilifeform unrated for inactivity << perharps notification in IRC client on mention [16:12]
asciilifeform: possib [16:12]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, huh, not that clear in my text, is it will update specifically: with 12 iterations probability that M-R falsely returns prime on a non-prime is less than (1/4)^12 [16:12]
apeloyee: !#s "fuck you Anduck" [16:12]
a111: 1 result for "\"fuck you Anduck\"", [16:12]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman right. [16:12]
asciilifeform: incidentally the spreadspectrumtron popularly attributed to h. lamar ( the hot chix ) was skitale principle but turning ~freq~ knob [16:12]
asciilifeform: mechanically. [16:12]
mircea_popescu: << it's literally in ben_vulpes 's paste homepage! [16:14]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 02:31 lobbes: while probably elementary to most here, I just discovered that I can send POST requests with curl. One single line! The simple joys of n00bdom. [16:14]
mircea_popescu: << yup, it's the correct approach. [16:15]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 02:41 trinque: archiver process breaks, can fix, restart, keep munching on work queue [16:15]
mircea_popescu: << a word to the wise, don't bake exceptions in. [16:18]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 02:46 lobbes: anyways, for the wotpastes specifically, I plan to download and store those myself from the get-go (and NOT route them through, seeing as those are easily 'flagged' due to the predictable url. To alf's point, even if stays up, diddling is always a threat. Any bits I can do without it now is +ev imo [16:18]
mircea_popescu: you'll come to regret them. [16:18]
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market all [16:20]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7071.99, vol: 27186.03264905 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7082.2, vol: 99361.03874681 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7070.0, vol: 7465.52633086 | Volume-weighted last average: 7079.44914806 [16:21]
mircea_popescu: o wow srsly ? [16:21]
mircea_popescu: i should travel more often. [16:21]
asciilifeform: notbad, castle-mircea_popescustein in timis costs not so much moar than what asciilifeform lost on bbet, lol [16:22]
asciilifeform: ( and the infamous kakotoyota could buy the whole orchestra ) [16:22]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in chef's salads, [16:23]
mircea_popescu: << moar phase locked goodies eh [16:29]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 19:33 asciilifeform: ^ per asciilifeform's current understanding, thing is untriangulable unless enemy knows the freq keying pattern, or is standing in the near field of your transmitter. [16:29]
asciilifeform: loosely speaking yes. [16:29]
mircea_popescu: << check it out, he understands radio too. [16:30]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 19:43 apeloyee: you will have to deal with multipath . narrow spectrum modes is just pretending problem doesn't exist, they just stop working on destructive interference [16:30]
asciilifeform: iirc physics d00d. [16:30]
mircea_popescu: i thought maffs. [16:30]
asciilifeform: logs in , at any rate, from chernogolovka, the su mega-mecca [16:31]
mircea_popescu: << ideal is to not use the mw for anything. [16:31]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 19:46 asciilifeform: another is to mimic a common source of crapola, e.g. defective electric motors. [16:31]
asciilifeform: ain't no miracles, nothing is crossing ocean without some palpable wattage [16:32]
asciilifeform: ( how much suffices, is open to question ) [16:32]
mircea_popescu: right. [16:32]
asciilifeform: fwiw su illegals in 1950s all had burst encoders ( punched tape ) , song starts and finishes in few sec. but otoh they did not need to shout across ocean, but only to nearest sovembassy. [16:35]
asciilifeform: << photo of subj [16:39]
lobbes: << shit. So it is. Looks like I fail the intelligence test, as per: [17:23]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 20:14 mircea_popescu: << it's literally in ben_vulpes 's paste homepage! [17:23]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 18:36 mircea_popescu: whole fucking point of intelligence is not to miss. [17:23]
lobbes: << because one day the $item-I-am-excepting will be $no-longer-the-item-I-should-be-excepting? [17:23]
a111: Logged on 2017-11-02 20:18 mircea_popescu: << a word to the wise, don't bake exceptions in. [17:23]
lobbes: And if that is the case, couldn't it be mitigated through not having the exceptions baked into code, but rather in a separate 'exception list' that can be altered easily? [17:26]
lobbes: I'll bbl. Meatworld calls [17:27]
ben_vulpes: lobbes: also look into wget curl's cheese of late [17:27]
jurov: ben_vulpes: also [18:05]
ben_vulpes: oh dear [18:06]
ben_vulpes: yeah i forgot about that [18:06]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [18:18]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7055.11, vol: 27919.80860287 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7055.8, vol: 100610.28812863 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7085.0, vol: 7590.82131927 | Volume-weighted last average: 7057.28682008 [18:18]
BingoBoingo: Ah, crashing continues apace [18:18]
asciilifeform: in other upstacks, << rf encodings zoo. [19:36]
asciilifeform: in very other vintagelulz, [20:01]
asciilifeform: ^ detritus from usg war games of 20th c. [20:01]
Category: Logs
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