Forum logs for 01 Oct 2016

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
asciilifeform: now let's see other folk also ! [00:00]
shinohai: Imma stick to bash/perl [00:01]
* shinohai is not lispy enough [00:01]
BingoBoingo: Imma stick to silk and needlepoint! [00:02]
* shinohai would like to see BingoBoingo's parachute cross-stitched [00:03]
BingoBoingo: Not cross stitched. Needle point is for directing the silk worms as they spin parachute. [00:06]
shinohai: The silkworms in this area are only capable of sha1, I need better worms. [00:08]
shinohai: You can have them all tbh, they eat all the Mulberry trees and prevent me from harvesting great wines [00:09]
BingoBoingo: See that's your problem. You gotta feed them better. [00:20]
BingoBoingo: And by better I mean San Pedro cactus so they trip balls and naturally make parachute instead of cocoon [00:22]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i like that there's no serif glyph powered ambiguity. [00:25]
mircea_popescu: all that l I 1 bs. [00:25]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did you think bash was slow or what ? [00:27]
mircea_popescu: !!deed [09:00]
deedbot: accepted: 1 [09:01]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo plox to include deed url in report from now on, that way i can link to qntra piece rather than to deed from trilema. [09:02]
mircea_popescu: works added as a comment for eg. [09:02]
mircea_popescu: ^% [09:06]
mircea_popescu: & shares added. [09:06]
deedbot: << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) September 2016 Statement [09:18]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo plox to include deed url in report from now on, that way i can link to qntra piece rather than to deed from trilema. << ty, will do. [10:30]
mircea_popescu: cool [10:32]
shinohai: Oct. 1 so happy 2nd Qntra anniversary BingoBoingo [10:33]
BingoBoingo: shinohai: You're a day early. Tomorrow closes year 2 [10:34]
shinohai: Ah kk [10:34]
shinohai: I still have time to buy celebratory items [10:34]
BingoBoingo: The historical asp opposed to statementical which closes November [10:34]
BingoBoingo: After october statement published [10:35]
mircea_popescu: we should prolly have a tshirt or something. [10:43]
mircea_popescu: you know, "Been there, done that, got the tshirt" [10:43]
BingoBoingo: Maybe after we pass BitBet in lifespan [10:45]
deedbot: [10:45]
* shinohai would like to have a QNtra mascot shirt to wear to a blm protest [10:45]
BingoBoingo: Also those are the fakest looking cabbages and plants I've ever seen [10:45]
mircea_popescu: lol [10:48]
BingoBoingo: Litereally, the reallier looking snake plants look like they were shooped in from a home decorating magazine spread [11:02]
asciilifeform: of possible reverser interest, << 'Snowman is a native code to C/C++ decompiler...' >> similar, possibly, to ida's famous 'hexray'. [11:31]
deedbot: << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - On the Ultimate Justification of the Ethics of Private Property by Hans-Hermann Hoppe, adnotated. Part 2. [11:54]
mircea_popescu: in other news, i'm penning a humongo piece, hopefully be done by tonight. [12:14]
mircea_popescu: that sad moment when you look into server disk for unrelated reasons and you notice Blocks Read/sec 100.44 Blocks Written/Sec 194.83 [12:30]
mircea_popescu: holy shit sherlock why is everything so broken / [12:31]
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats [13:27]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 432403 | Current Difficulty: 2.4122720022999103E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 433439 | Next Difficulty In: 1036 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 1 hour, 24 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [13:27]
adlai: Estimated Next Difficulty: 260,022,823,582 (+7.79%) [13:28]
hanbot: << catching up on refs, i spy an involved amazon referral linking scheme, not a bad approach lol [13:38]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-27 20:03 mircea_popescu: in other news, [13:38]
mircea_popescu: lol. quite so. [13:39]
BingoBoingo: Sorry for your lawn, pls to wait 7-10 years for "studies" [13:44]
deedbot: << Trilema - Observations on certain documents contained in the history of the United States for the year 1796 in which the charge of speculation against Alexander Hamilton, late secretary of the treasury is fully refuted. Written by [14:43]
deedbot: << Qntra - Bitcoin Foundation Celebrates Month Of Activity And RELEASE Milestone [15:06]
deedbot: << Loper OS - The Care and Feeding of the Sage SmartProbe. [15:10]
asciilifeform: trinque ^^^^^^^ [15:11]
asciilifeform: and i forget who else. [15:19]
asciilifeform: ( afaik the docs were to be found literally nowhere on the net. but they are now here. ) [15:19]
mircea_popescu: win. [15:19]
mircea_popescu: even later update for unpublished commands. [15:20]
mircea_popescu: your blog sir is becoming very cool. [15:20]
asciilifeform: not only commands [15:20]
asciilifeform: there is a mechanism whereby one can read/write the flash. i've been bolting it onto the ubiquitous 'flashrom' linux util, will be posted later. [15:20]
mircea_popescu: ahaha nice. [15:21]
mircea_popescu: mod6 four tickets eh ? great month. [15:21]
asciilifeform: (the tool i made for writing ~the probe's own~ flash, was posted earlier.) [15:21]
shinohai: Lulzy: [16:02]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, [16:50]
asciilifeform: !#s tarver [16:51]
a111: 15 results for "tarver", [16:51]
asciilifeform: << moar. [16:51]
asciilifeform: (apparently he links back to my www now, lulzily) [16:51]
asciilifeform: 'There is a certain character you see in the West the sort of girl who paints her nails, works at KFC and dreams of being selected for X-Factor because she sang karaoke at her friend's hen night. We laugh at this because we know that for her the chances of getting mindshare and being the next Beyonce are slight. Everyone can dream but when the girl goes on to neglect her education and development because she's stuck on this dream, [16:51]
asciilifeform: then something has gone very wrong in her head. The aspirations of the OS fanatic hooked on mindshare are often no more realistic than the neurotic checkout girl at KFC.' << soooomebody's been reading ze logz [16:51]
asciilifeform: on the other hand, if tarver - or anybody 'open source has failed!111' else - thinks that i am going to build anything whatsoever on top of his closed turd, he is smoking dope. [16:58]
trinque: asciilifeform: got the pill applied, last call to dump_forever() failed but the lines preceding looked to be a successful firmware write [17:01]
jurov: They may be smoking dope. Still, they decided to do their thing, instead of sitting on various stakes working for other people. [17:01]
trinque: can't get gdb connected to it yet, but connecting to it directly either with cu or telnet reports: SmartProbe: 3.2_3743 [17:02]
trinque: so it appears the thing survived? [17:02]
trinque: gdb either via serial or net reports: Remote failure reply: E81 [17:03]
asciilifeform: E81 -- 'The HDT cable is not plugged in' [17:11]
asciilifeform: ^ [17:11]
asciilifeform: and yes, if it shows 'SmartProbe: 3.2_3743' it is cured. [17:11]
asciilifeform: jurov: per this argument, the microshit world is where it's at. [17:12]
trinque: sweet! [17:12]
asciilifeform: trinque: naturally the probe won't do anything useful without being connected to a powered amd mobo [17:12]
trinque: but it is [17:12]
trinque: and in the right direction [17:12]
asciilifeform: make sure plug is in the right way [17:12]
trinque: cable comes out away from the board [17:13]
jurov: asciilifeform: reductio ad microsoftum ) [17:14]
asciilifeform: see also that it has not come loose inside the probe box. [17:14]
asciilifeform: this has happened to me >1ce [17:14]
asciilifeform: one time i even had a board with bad tracks to the hdt connector. [17:16]
trinque: heh that just occurred to me [17:16]
trinque: "this seems loose...." [17:16]
trinque: screwdriver in hand [17:16]
asciilifeform: the female connector inside the probe is keyed, should not be hard to reseat. [17:16]
asciilifeform: jurov: unfortunately it was tarver, not i, who 'reductio ad microsoftium' -- literally! << his turd requires winblows. [17:17]
asciilifeform: took sbcl and closed it. [17:17]
asciilifeform: (with Shit Bolted To The Side) [17:17]
adlai: "We're beginning our first commercial application - a health app for yoga enthusiasts" oh, it's a [17:21]
mircea_popescu: who is "mark tarver" anyway. [17:21]
jurov: gabriel_laddel on steroids, i guess. [17:22]
mircea_popescu: heh [17:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: british dude who was once a comp sci prof and quit because barfed at academia's corrupt idiocies, [17:22]
a111: Logged on 2014-06-22 17:22 asciilifeform: 'You can routinely find lecturers with more than a hundred published papers and you marvel at these paradigms of human creativity. These are people, you think, who are fit to challenge Mozart who wrote a hundred pieces or more of music. And then you get puzzled that, in this modern world, there should be so many Mozarts - almost one for every department. The more prosaic truth emerges when you scan the titles [17:22]
asciilifeform: << the only afaik live copy [17:23]
mircea_popescu: "This essay is a lightly edited transcript of a series of posts I made to the Shen news group in the middle of 2015. They highlighted the failure of the open source initiative in the project, analysed the reasons and suggested a successful formula for moving the project forward. The posts led to the formation of the much more dynamic closed source Shen Professional. The lessons here are widely applicable to many open sourc [17:23]
mircea_popescu: e projects and developers may find the material interesting." [17:23]
mircea_popescu: myeah ok, i can't see anything past "here's tmsr in blockchain form". [17:24]
asciilifeform: tarver had an open source crackpot lisp system for a decade or so, then quit in disgust, then opened some commercial thing [17:25]
mircea_popescu: whole piece seems pretty much the #trilema talking points. including "giving away your power" unreferenced ballas - as - processed stuff etc. [17:26]
deedbot: << Qntra - Not Quite News Roundup Xtend 8 [17:26]
mircea_popescu: neway, dood is more than welcome to his delusional kingdom. not the first one. [17:28]
asciilifeform: i linked subj because he is not the only one in that kingdom, it quite resembles one of those glue traps for mice, and folks who 'disgusted with open source!111' tend to end up in it. [17:28]
mircea_popescu: or in yarvin's revolutionary-language clubs, or in "less wrong" to learn all about how to have a slavegirl while calling her a dragon or w/e is currently fashionable in manga world, and so on and so forth. [17:29]
asciilifeform: nah those are for young blokes [17:29]
asciilifeform: the new tarver is instead a case of 'my sbcl-with-serial-number-filed-off-pays-my-mortgage, open sores suxx!111' [17:30]
mircea_popescu: well the old blokes tend to disappear in chumpatroniums a la [17:30]
mircea_popescu: hm, i suppose this is a different class indeed. old guy who goes to the gym and so forth. a sort of lafond pencildick version. [17:31]
asciilifeform: various. [17:31]
mircea_popescu: entirely unrelated to anything, [17:31]
asciilifeform: trinque: so was the plug loose, or dud board, or wat [17:32]
mircea_popescu: << referenced in logs, meanwhile gone [17:41]
mircea_popescu: this is i think the first positive case of logrot due to idiots being idiots (tarver, in this case) [17:41]
asciilifeform: << it moved. [17:42]
mircea_popescu: aha. ty. [17:42]
asciilifeform: << moar on subj [17:43]
deedbot: << Bingo Blog - Social Justice Lawncare: (Agri)Cultural Marxism For the Collective Home Lawn [18:03]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency rmb [18:30]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 4092.26, vol: 231309.99960000 | Volume-weighted last average: 4092.26 [18:30]
trinque: asciilifeform: reseated it inside the sage, now got E64, which seems reasonable? [18:36]
asciilifeform: trinque: try power cycling the board using gdb monitor commands [18:38]
asciilifeform: sometimes it takes some fiddling to get it into a gdb-able state. [18:38]
trinque: "monitor" command not supported by this target << having issued "monitor reset" [18:39]
trinque: any particular order to boot the devices? I figured sage, then gizmo [18:40]
asciilifeform: rtfm, [18:40]
asciilifeform: there aint no 'reset' [18:40]
asciilifeform: and no, gizmo first, then sage. [18:41]
asciilifeform: monitor Power,acpi [18:42]
asciilifeform: switches off mine [18:42]
asciilifeform: monitor Power,on [18:42]
asciilifeform: switches on [18:43]
asciilifeform: ctrl-C will halt it to where you can play [18:43]
asciilifeform: alternatively, monitor HaltOnReset [18:43]
asciilifeform: gets you to start of bios. [18:43]
asciilifeform: oh btw you gotta have the cpu arch set to i386 for that one, as the iron starts in 16bit mode, and gdb is too stupid to track mode switches [18:44]
trinque: I'll have to fiddle with it a while and figure out why I'm seeing E64, but seems like I'm close. [18:56]
asciilifeform: aha [18:59]
asciilifeform: all it means is that he cpu wasn't halted properly [18:59]
asciilifeform: *the [19:00]
shinohai: I have successfully stuffed asciilifeform 's Lamport functions into a single bash script. Now for cleanup. [19:00]
mircea_popescu: it's really too bad there's like nothing happening in teh republic these days. [19:03]
asciilifeform: trinque: << amd sb700 chipset docs. (and no, they do not exist in any other format, nor will they) [19:24]
asciilifeform: ^ what's on the gboard. [19:24]
mircea_popescu: are the archival bots running ? lessee [19:24]
mircea_popescu: oh dun work for pdfs huh [19:25]
mircea_popescu: jesus this shit's hard to get settled. [19:25]
mircea_popescu: but no, they don't work, for eg [19:27]
asciilifeform: strange [19:27]
asciilifeform: given as the latter is hand-cranked html [19:28]
mircea_popescu: anyway. we gotta do something with the pdfs. [19:28]
asciilifeform: (i personally stitched it out of the old braindamaged wiki, dumped circa july 2015) [19:28]
mircea_popescu: especially as they're now getting imported into fucking foundational work [19:28]
asciilifeform: could rasterize the thing, but it will be multi-GB. [19:28]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform even a pdf to png transfer, with the images pasted on a html page, would be preferrable. [19:28]
mircea_popescu: seeing how svg is crap [19:29]
asciilifeform: well yes. multi-GB. [19:29]
asciilifeform: who wants - go ahead, it is a 1-liner, and is in the l0gz somewhere [19:29]
mircea_popescu: sigh. this is a major problem in search of a solution. [19:29]
asciilifeform: png would also be very painful because no cut'n'paste [19:29]
asciilifeform: these are chip docs, with thousands of magic numbers. [19:29]
mircea_popescu: myea [19:29]
mircea_popescu: is it latexable ? [19:30]
asciilifeform: what's that even mean [19:30]
asciilifeform: is steak cow-able ? [19:30]
asciilifeform: spam - pig-able ? [19:30]
mircea_popescu: sigh. [19:30]
mircea_popescu: this whole tex/svg/png/pdf/fuckall thing is becoming a major problem. [19:30]
mircea_popescu: fucking eyesore too. [19:30]
trinque: asciilifeform: so far always receiving E64 when I load gdbinit.txt, gizmo is booted to the point where it asked me to press a key on the keypad [19:31]
asciilifeform: nobody knows what amd generated these with. could've been msword for all i know. could've been motherfucking quark express. but in any case all they published (WHEN they published anything) is pdf. [19:31]
trinque: the LCD on the plugged board says "press a key" [19:31]
asciilifeform: trinque: did you try the resets as i described here ? [19:31]
asciilifeform: are you able to turn the board on and off using the probe ? [19:31]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it seems highly unlikely that any usg.* matter will be usable verbatim anyway. we will have to maintain our own, ~correctable~ versions of their manuals anyway. [19:31]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha. [19:32]
mircea_popescu: so the notion of pigging the spam is not entirely without merit impossible as it may be. [19:32]
mircea_popescu: (this being WHY they publish in the fucking crud in the first place, of course. pdf, enemy of humanity in every which way already.) [19:33]
trinque: asciilifeform: << can't run any 'monitor' commands [19:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gotta also think about the fact that sb700 is EXTRAORDINARILY unusual in that we have chip docs at all for it. [19:33]
mircea_popescu: aha. [19:33]
trinque: but then the gizmo is not halted, right? it's asking me to press any key "to exit keypad test" [19:33]
trinque: upon which it cycles back through the boot process [19:33]
mircea_popescu: seems ~the only liable to be productive way forward is offering rewards for stolen originals. [19:34]
mircea_popescu: which kind-of requires working gossipd. [19:34]
trinque: maybe I'll just plug an empty HD [19:34]
asciilifeform: trinque: give me a similar dump but after you put "set debug remote 1" in your gdb config. [19:34]
asciilifeform: this prints raw packets. [19:34]
asciilifeform: and no you don't need a hd in there [19:34]
asciilifeform: it is guaranteed to make 0 difference [19:34]
asciilifeform: i never connect any to mine. [19:34]
trinque: asciilifeform: I already uncommented that [19:34]
asciilifeform: trinque: what happens if you run it second time ? [19:36]
asciilifeform: in a row [19:36]
asciilifeform: trinque: << mine, with complete debug out, fwiw [19:37]
asciilifeform: (connected to warm and running board) [19:38]
asciilifeform: you might have to get the same gdb i have, to properly compare. [19:38]
trinque: same no matter how many times I run. GNU gdb 6.3 [19:39]
trinque: what vintage do you run? [19:39]
asciilifeform: $ gdb --version [19:40]
asciilifeform: GNU gdb (Gentoo 7.8.1 vanilla) 7.8.1 [19:40]
mircea_popescu: this may be the first time alf had a HIGHER version. [19:40]
asciilifeform: trinque: let's do 1 small experiment [19:41]
asciilifeform: kill the gdb, warm up the box, and... [19:41]
asciilifeform: cu -l /dev/ttyACM0 -s 115200 [19:41]
asciilifeform: after you get a 'Connected. [19:41]
asciilifeform: SmartProbe: 3.2_3743' followed by mac addr and a 0, [19:41]
asciilifeform: throw in, verbatim, [19:41]
asciilifeform: $qXfer:features:read:target.xml:0,4a6#16 [19:41]
asciilifeform: this is gdb command, the syntax is simple, $COMMANDGOESHERE#CHECKSUM [19:42]
asciilifeform: where CHECKSUM is 'the unsigned sum of all the characters in the packet data modulo 256. It is represented as a pair of hexadecimal digits.' ( as described , section 2.3 ) [19:42]
trinque: << did over telnet, got this [19:43]
asciilifeform: so trinque , anywhere in my paste where you see 'Sending packet' you can try the command manually [19:43]
trinque: k [19:43]
trinque: I'll also build that particular gdb [19:43]
asciilifeform: trinque: that's correct ! [19:43]
asciilifeform: see my paste [19:43]
asciilifeform: your probe worx [19:44]
trinque: mega-win [19:44]
asciilifeform: gdb is sad though [19:44]
asciilifeform: i have a gigantic collection of working and nonworking ones [19:44]
asciilifeform: (the stock version is ~useless with mips, for instance) [19:44]
asciilifeform: aaah and i almost forgot, there is another possible problem. if the box you plugged the serial cable into has pissed down the line, anything whatsoever, the ethernet interface will be confounded [19:46]
asciilifeform: (thing is not built to be driven by two machines at 1ce) [19:46]
asciilifeform: i recommend to - at first - use only the usb-serial hole. [19:47]
asciilifeform: (you gotta power it via that hole anyway.) [19:47]
asciilifeform: << it is not clear that anyone knows how to do this without simply becoming a toilet for disinfo, with rapidly thinning wallet to boot [19:48]
a111: Logged on 2016-10-01 23:34 mircea_popescu: seems ~the only liable to be productive way forward is offering rewards for stolen originals. [19:48]
asciilifeform: how do i verify that $chipdoc is not only correct but ~complete~, much less the ~original~..? [19:49]
asciilifeform: or that it does not contain subtle lie (this is a problem with every single example extant, including the one linked earlier, they have subtle deviations from what the actual silicon does, we know this from YEARS of thankless sweat by various linux folk) [19:50]
trinque: newer gdb worked great. I'll now write up my notes, did all this from openbsd. [19:56]
trinque: only differences were /dev/cuaU0 and installing recent gdb [19:57]
asciilifeform: heeeeeeeeere we go. [19:57]
asciilifeform: congrats trinque ! [19:57]
trinque: ty very much for the pill, asciilifeform [19:57]
asciilifeform: yw trinque . [19:57]
asciilifeform: that pill was ~3 mo. of work, at one time. [19:58]
* asciilifeform bbl -- there is much meat. [19:58]
trinque: enjoy. [19:58]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is that. [21:02]
mircea_popescu: and ftr this mentoring session in hardware fucking has been a treat to watch :D [21:02]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile somewhere else, [21:03]
deedbot: << trinque - Sage SmartProbe Rehabilitated [21:10]
mircea_popescu: ahaha snatched comment #1. [21:22]
trinque: cheers mp! [21:25]
* trinque bbl [21:26]
shinohai: BingoBoingo: <<< lol [21:59]
shinohai: what did I expect [21:59]
mircea_popescu: good for a minilol. [22:02]
BingoBoingo: shinohai: tyvm [23:14]
shinohai: I rather enjoyed that piece [23:15]
BingoBoingo: I was applying a healthy dose of priviledge to my lawn today and the idea came to me. [23:16]
shinohai: I have the privilege of having no lawn of my own to dose. [23:20]
BingoBoingo: Well you're in Georgia. You would have the unenviable task of neighbors trying to grow lawn cancer. [23:24]
shinohai: In Georgia, the epitome of great lawncare is seeing how many dilapidated cars you can have sitting on cinder blocks. [23:32]
BingoBoingo: Still better than Bermudagrass [23:55]
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