Forum logs for 01 Dec 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
BingoBoingo: In the Qntra comments: http://qntra.net/2017/07/miners-signal-segwit-via-bip-91-lock-in-avoiding-user-activated-fork/#comment-120995 [11:44]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/12/clinton-foreign-kickbacks-whistleblower-raided-by-fbi/ << Qntra - Clinton Foreign Kickbacks Whistleblower Raided By FBI [12:13]
BingoBoingo: In sad news normally the kiosko on my block would be open today. It is not. Apparently grab and run shoplifting kills margins here. [13:07]
BingoBoingo: Also many apologies, this should have been linked much more in the past http://trilema.com/2013/simple-yet-effective-way-to-troll-white-rich-american-people/ [13:20]
BingoBoingo: And 'n further lulz not-President McCain gets more funeral time than Jorge Walker Bush I [13:29]
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell danielpbarron If I find karaoke in MVD will you consider a prospecting visit? [13:33]
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. [13:33]
danielpbarron: i will consider a visit with or without the karaoke [13:35]
lobbesbot: danielpbarron: Sent 2 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> If I find karaoke in MVD will you consider a prospecting visit? [13:35]
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-01-dec-2018#2500924 << pretty lulzy, and apparently not a joak -- indeed some folx, somewhere, habitually move 20-30k coin in 1 shot, and doing it with prb and onto segshitaddrs [13:37]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 16:44 BingoBoingo: In the Qntra comments: http://qntra.net/2017/07/miners-signal-segwit-via-bip-91-lock-in-avoiding-user-activated-fork/#comment-120995 [13:37]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-26#1875012 << see also. [13:38]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-26 22:55 asciilifeform: but possibly this only worx on a ~very~ long timescale [13:38]
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Given that your system makes partnerships and joint ventures difficult, have you given thought to services you could offer the republic or your church which might justify racking a box? [13:38]
danielpbarron: the church doesn't need one maybe some day they could use shared hosting if whatever they use now gets shut down [13:40]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877231 << not familiar with story canhaz link ? [13:41]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 03:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1876942 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-29#1876009 also ended anglo finance and ~everything else. there's a ushinski story about the cat fighting a falcon, end results similar. [13:41]
asciilifeform: ( was it a variant of aesop's frog and scorpion..? ) [13:41]
asciilifeform: 'i must bite' 'you will drown' [13:41]
danielpbarron: as for me, there is the poker bot that i haven't done yet, but i don't know that it needs its own whole machine [13:41]
asciilifeform: rly, danielpbarron , you'd make a poker without rng ? [13:42]
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Well, something must be said for the parallels between an independent box and a sort of temple. [13:42]
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, i was thinking i could make a big binary file with FG at home, and send it to the bot [13:42]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: we have a thread re the problem of storing rng. [13:43]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838855 << e.g. [13:43]
a111: Logged on 2018-08-01 22:03 mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as data that is all three of 1) random 2) useful and 3) buffered. [13:43]
danielpbarron: ah, ok [13:43]
asciilifeform: if you stored rng, and somebody gets a peek... [13:43]
danielpbarron: the poker bot spec includes seeds from each individual player. would that make it ok, or still bad? [13:45]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877236 << not my reading. there was plenty of interesting, original work , it was fatwa'd in late '70s by brezhnev's bean counters, who did not see the problem with 'copy DEC and use foreign soft, better cheaper faster' etc [13:45]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 03:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877034 << weird "saving self" thing, like the indians have with ejaculation. seems nutty enough if expressed, but it's kinda my takeaway, soviet thought "last man to think wins". [13:45]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: seems like in that case you dun need any rng at all [13:45]
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu described a similar scheme a few yrs ago [13:45]
danielpbarron: it's his spec [13:45]
asciilifeform: ah [13:45]
asciilifeform: then i'ma leave it alone, prolly contains complete algo [13:46]
asciilifeform: ( can't recall from memory ) [13:46]
danielpbarron: pretty sure it was RNG + player seeds, publish after hand/game [13:46]
danielpbarron: the player seeds would be buffered too tho, so i guess it's still the same problem [13:47]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877246 << ~same price as in the boonies in usa [13:47]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 03:37 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877212 << you can have a decent, new construction, 4-6k sqm floor space metal structure warehouse in ro for 100k+/-. but yes, more generally there's no place for real estate like europe. rest of the world, latam especially, 100% africans, built five huts in fifteen centuries. of which two burned down, so the other three are EVEN MORE VALUABLE NOW [13:47]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: yer on a computer, errything is at least slightly buffered. problem with 'here's a year worth of rng' is 1) somebody gets to it 2) what when you run through ? [13:48]
danielpbarron: what time frame is acceptable? [13:48]
asciilifeform: i dun expect this is a q having a straight mathematical answer [13:49]
asciilifeform: will depend on your taste / risk tolerance [13:49]
asciilifeform: FG buffers 2 bytes. [13:49]
asciilifeform: ( i recommend to read the sores , you will learn how asciilifeform approached the whole rng biz ) [13:50]
lobbes: danielpbarron: fwiw my pizarro rockchip has served me well thus far as a home for both auctionbot and for mp-wp. Hell, you could run a mirror for your church's www in the event it goes down AND host the poker bot [13:51]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/12/pantsuit-religious-figure-neil-degrasse-tyson-hit-with-bad-touch-allegations/ << Qntra - Pantsuit Religious Figure Neil deGrasse Tyson Hit With "Bad Touch" Allegations [13:51]
danielpbarron: yeah that's something to consider [13:51]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: consider. there's also FG option for rk. [13:52]
danielpbarron: gotta make it first tho, shared hosting is fine for my blog in the meantime [13:52]
BingoBoingo: lobbes: I suspect for gambling danielpbarron will want a "closed" box [13:52]
danielpbarron: what's the legality of such a thing? bot hosted in uraguay but operater lives in US [13:53]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: theoretically inevitable gasenwagen. but in practice prolly depends on whether anybody actually uses. [13:54]
danielpbarron: i don't care so much about gaswagon Bible says to obey laws [13:55]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: then definite haram [13:55]
BingoBoingo: It's uruguay, as long as you don't advertise Uruguay marijuana to Uruguayos they don't care much, otherwise fall back to http://trilema.com/2013/simple-yet-effective-way-to-troll-white-rich-american-people/ nuclear option [13:55]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if he's into 'give unto caesar' it's defo haram, in usa 'gamble' ~= terrorism(tm) [13:55]
BingoBoingo: Our beloved Bitcoin MUD has been running since 2009 [13:55]
asciilifeform: vegas dun like competition. [13:55]
danielpbarron: pretty sure they got micon of seals with clubs in a very similar situation [13:56]
BingoBoingo: Miconazole got fucked for being stupid [13:56]
danielpbarron: doesn't stop me from writing a bot [13:57]
BingoBoingo: Anyways you take the ears off of a Qntra 9" deep rackmount box and it fits in a medium sized 24" checked bag [13:58]
asciilifeform: usg claims ownership of all gamblers, http://trilema.com/2015/a-new-software-licensing-paradigm/#selection-133.0-140.0 - style and thereby prosecutes pokerists in same style as e.g. cig smugglers in nyc [13:58]
BingoBoingo: No rails to fuck with because ass isn't heavy enough to need them [13:59]
* BingoBoingo has yet to see FBI raid on MVD shopping casino [13:59]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they dun bother going to foreign rack, normally, if it suffices to pick up 'evil mastermind' who conveniently sits in the reich [14:00]
asciilifeform: incidentally, danielpbarron , iirc yer a money man, wtf are you still doing parked in the reich ?? [14:00]
danielpbarron: even if i knew for sure somehow that i'd never get picked up, my conscience wouldn't be clear [14:00]
danielpbarron: church is in reich [14:01]
asciilifeform: i'm here cuz i'ma pauper. why are you in the reich danielpbarron ? [14:01]
asciilifeform: i thought church was wherever 3 believers sat under 1 roof [14:01]
asciilifeform: or am i out of date on subj [14:01]
danielpbarron: i don't know of any believers anywhere else [14:01]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: can you move'em ? jim jones somehow managed, lol [14:02]
danielpbarron: i'm not poor but i can't do that [14:02]
asciilifeform: sad if troo. eventually they'll not only pick the lot of you up, but you'll sit with 'bad conscience' ( why , exactly ? in ru old believers sat for decades in prisons with 100% clear consciences ) [14:03]
asciilifeform: last i recall, being tortured by heathen 'state' is +9000 martyrdom points ( but then again i might be out of date ? ) [14:05]
BingoBoingo: If it wasn't for the datacenter need, Peru, costal Colombia, or Atlantida, Uruguay would have been places to colonize [14:06]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: he doesn't actually need to live next door to the rack [14:07]
BingoBoingo: Which is why I am slowly expanding his bullseye [14:07]
BingoBoingo: Durazno department, Uruguay s basically Oklahoma with orchards [14:08]
BingoBoingo: I can't speak for Brasil other than Brasileros like to come here to escape beach crimes against their persons and property [14:10]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877242 << fwiw 'cadence' has ~monopoly not only on ic cad, but on 'heavy industrial' pcb cad, for 16+ layers mobo etc. i actually one time tried to use it, warez , winblowz box, & all, it was monstrously gnarly, loathesome. but if yer making sumthing with 100,000s of netlist nodes, dozens of pcb layers, ball grid ics with 1,000s of balls, yer more or less stuck with it. i've avoided strictly by virt [14:14]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 03:31 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877135 << what would impel anyone to ? [14:14]
asciilifeform: ue of making 'small' (e.g. FG) items, to date. [14:14]
asciilifeform: ( observe that even FG i had to design on a warez cad, after wasting ~months~ on trying 'open sores' variants but at least it was much lighter-weight / non-winblowz item. still had to be cracked, & run on a 'toilet'. ) [14:16]
asciilifeform: !#s cadsoft [14:16]
a111: 8 results for "cadsoft", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cadsoft [14:16]
asciilifeform: ^ see also [14:17]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cad is 1 of the open problems for which a bolix clone would be +9000 mechanical lever. [14:17]
asciilifeform: MUCH easier to write on top of a sane os, with sane raster graphics stack etc, than on anyffing we presently have. [14:18]
asciilifeform: that very 'ns' which amberglint cracked, and on which 'ivory' was baked, was 20k loc !! [14:18]
asciilifeform: ( and it did both chips AND pcb AND motherfucking signal simulations !! ) [14:19]
asciilifeform: and -- will point out -- ran on the 3600 series boxen, where 4MB was 'princely' ram, and 2MHz was cpu clock. [14:20]
asciilifeform: btw a very good chunk of the present-day cad monopoly biz is powered by tech written by bolix escapees. i tracked some of'em down ( and no they dun answer my mail... ) , they built the current cad houses. [14:21]
BingoBoingo: In local news, lol pichis https://www.subrayado.com.uy/cuidacoches-que-exigen-dinero-una-falta-que-se-denuncia-poco-y-no-se-puede-erradicar-n520297 [14:21]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wtf again is a pichi [14:21]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: A pichi is a bum [14:22]
BingoBoingo: So named because they make the streets smell like piss [14:22]
asciilifeform: hrm, i thought they were ethnics ( incas who somehow slipped from the spanish mines ? ) [14:22]
BingoBoingo: Nah, mostly pale Italian stock [14:22]
asciilifeform: lol i had nfi [14:22]
BingoBoingo: Sure, how many people in traffic safety vests did we walk past? [14:23]
asciilifeform: these were bums?! [14:23]
BingoBoingo: Yes, to varying depths [14:23]
BingoBoingo: "Ciudado coches" i.e. begging for alms to not injure parked cars [14:24]
asciilifeform: i vaguely recall that brazil used to shoot these right on the spot, a++ approach, but possibly this was in the good old days and nomoar [14:24]
BingoBoingo: Nominally what they get paid for is helping people back their cars out, but... [14:25]
BingoBoingo: Mostly they sell paraguay brick weed to lower unvested pichis [14:26]
BingoBoingo: (pronounced paraguaSH) [14:27]
asciilifeform: but of course SH [14:27]
asciilifeform: like argentards [14:27]
BingoBoingo: Well, the noun is pronounced Paraguway, but the adjective is pronounced ParaguaSH [14:28]
asciilifeform: yea straight s/ll/sh [14:28]
asciilifeform: iirc whole bottom half of south amer is likethat [14:28]
asciilifeform: 'casteshano' [14:29]
BingoBoingo: With whatever the fuck Y does being a coinflip [14:29]
BingoBoingo: But yes, the vest people interested in cars are a sort of bum [14:30]
asciilifeform: here in northern reich we have 'lemme wash yer car' bums but for the most part they dun dare to molest parked vehicle [14:30]
asciilifeform: it's rather like molestation of cow in india [14:31]
BingoBoingo: Official Blue vests sold their souls for more rules, Orange and yellow vests just want to get high and delay their own mortality [14:31]
asciilifeform: will 'have problems' quickly [14:31]
BingoBoingo: There are intersection "car wash" bums too, but they have problems [14:31]
BingoBoingo: Lack of intersections that allow them time to make their pitch, and they get seen touching cars [14:32]
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the biggest threat to parked cars is people parking their own cars. According to local lore plastic bumpers make vechicles immune to low speed collision damage and so when parking local will force a parking spot into existence [14:33]
asciilifeform: clearly a market for spiked rear bumpers!111 [14:34]
BingoBoingo: It's what the vest folks are supposed to prevent [14:34]
asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-27#1875120 gambit still not 'final solution' to spamola -- i now get 1-2 turds in mod queue erry day. ( hats off, i guess, to the spammers who know how to xor 2 small ints.. ) [14:50]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-27 15:05 asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-26#1874898 worx a+++ : prior, there was always 1 or 2 spamola in the mod queue erry day, ~through the broken google liquishit~, whereas nao -- none [14:50]
asciilifeform: maybe i'ma swap it for 1 of those 'solve this here triple integral' puzzlers that some ru forum use nao [14:51]
asciilifeform: ... it is also possible that they threw in random ints and got lucky, the machine log does not rule out this hypothesis [14:53]
asciilifeform: ( seems to take'em coupla dozen shots ) [14:53]
asciilifeform: after all answr is a 3 (decimal) digit [14:53]
* asciilifeform enhanced the spam trap a little bit [15:04]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877255 << top keks. [15:14]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 17:13 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/12/clinton-foreign-kickbacks-whistleblower-raided-by-fbi/ << Qntra - Clinton Foreign Kickbacks Whistleblower Raided By FBI [15:14]
mircea_popescu: "oh, what do you mean '''orange man''' is sending pantsuited hilarity to same cell block argentine whore lives on" [15:15]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877271 << was not and obviously ~only substantial reference to item on whole "world wide web" is trilema. because everyone else literally lives in vain, what. [15:19]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 18:41 asciilifeform: ( was it a variant of aesop's frog and scorpion..? ) [15:19]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6747/24302342.1a7/0_9dea5_99e0ef8d_orig << orig ilustration, perhaps helps. [15:20]
asciilifeform: https://ushinskij-konstantin-pisatel.larec-skazok.ru/orel-i-koshka << found, ty [15:24]
asciilifeform: i somehow missed reading this one as a larva [15:25]
asciilifeform: and yea it dun end how i thought it oughta ( i.e. both beasts keel over ) [15:25]
mircea_popescu: ha! nice! [15:25]
mircea_popescu: nah, cat wins a pyrrhyc victory. [15:25]
mircea_popescu: anyway, was over a kitten or something. [15:25]
asciilifeform: aha [15:25]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the retard farms, LordMPofTMSR "Not even kidding." Lola_25 "Umm... what?" LordMPofTMSR "Think of it as an intelligence test. That you're failing." Lola_25 "Great! It seems like a quiz that I'm happy to fail" LordMPofTMSR "You failed everything to date, what "happy". You're happy like the chair's "happy" it can't walk : since it can not walk anyway... Now get lost." [15:25]
mircea_popescu: so i suppose topical : that sounds like a story she's happy to have missed. AS LARVA. [15:26]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yup, that's the story exactly. [15:26]
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RukNQcnM4c << oblig vintage lul [15:27]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877283 << i'm not saying i got a read so clear i can argue anyone out of his but how does this reconcile with the "achieve&over-achieve" policy and ~everything else~ about that regime. after all, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-17#1373877 did not copy lincoln. [15:37]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 18:45 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877236 << not my reading. there was plenty of interesting, original work , it was fatwa'd in late '70s by brezhnev's bean counters, who did not see the problem with 'copy DEC and use foreign soft, better cheaper faster' etc [15:37]
a111: Logged on 2016-01-17 02:20 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373619 << aha. not even in motherfucking ussr. where 'zil' made not only limo for brezhnev, no expense spared, but... trucks [15:37]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was 5-6 different regimes. sorta like end-days rome. [15:37]
mircea_popescu: i suppose. [15:37]
asciilifeform: each with ~own set of braincase cockroaches. [15:37]
mircea_popescu: 60s different from 70s is the argument here ? [15:37]
asciilifeform: '70s was ro-style 'they'll give us yesterday's machine at today's price' sorta thing [15:38]
asciilifeform: aha [15:38]
asciilifeform: whereas in e.g. '60s su actually had ic (of a sort) prior to the gringos [15:38]
mircea_popescu: i can see it. [15:39]
asciilifeform: ( who even into '70s persisted in a belief that there's 'amazing su tech' worth fishing out of e.g. sunken su sub , with howard hughes' mega-boat ) [15:39]
mircea_popescu: so, you know, "as the 70s dawned, russian man came to this weird personal belief that he who thinks last wins". i suppose in a sense could be abomb-psychosis driven. [15:39]
asciilifeform: and yes they fished it out. ran on those '60s pre-ics. [15:39]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: late 70s, piggy was running dry, tech gap becoming palpable. bean counters given problem of how to close gap at minimal cost. gave answer, 'warez' [15:40]
asciilifeform: was duly implemented, imperial decree 'scrap all native comp work', largely ( if not entirely ) carried out [15:41]
asciilifeform: result : lotsa DEC clones, later -- intelade [15:41]
mircea_popescu: this actually makes sense. [15:41]
asciilifeform: !#s bk0010 [15:41]
a111: 8 results for "bk0010", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bk0010 [15:41]
asciilifeform: ^ e.g. [15:41]
asciilifeform: ^ single-chip pdp11. whole generation learned on it. [15:41]
mircea_popescu: the cute 00 prefix. [15:41]
asciilifeform: ( neither asciilifeform nor asciilifeform's elder brother ever saw bk in anyone's house, was ruinously expensive, but at public toilet type affairs was common ) [15:42]
asciilifeform: little thing, quite un-pdplike physically, approx same size and shape as mircea_popescu's spectrum clone [15:43]
mircea_popescu: but let's dig into it : WHAT ~precisely~, in central substance if not in peculiars of extension, DROVE this switch from "hey hey, soviet won space race and has ics of a sort" into this "ho, ho, soviet's buying scrapyard fare at new-from-factory prices" ? [15:43]
mircea_popescu: if not the above, then what ? cuz it fucking well wasn't 78 bean counters. by the time they were even asked anything, that WHAT was already two decades (ie, one generation) old. [15:43]
mircea_popescu: the ~parents~ of the people who scrapped the bk decided to not be like their grandparents. why and wherefore ? [15:44]
asciilifeform: i cannot presume to pin this down exactly. will share hypothesis tho : '50s-'60s su excelled at 'castles' , 'institutional' mega-constructions. venus rocket is a pyramid. but ic is a konsoomer-driven affair [15:44]
mircea_popescu: it is eminently not. [15:44]
mircea_popescu: "the world has space for maybe 4 ic pyramids". [15:44]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866014 sense [15:45]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 16:56 asciilifeform: imho the classical fab is an overwhelmingly incatronic tech, it centralizes unhealthily. [15:45]
asciilifeform: it is stupidly expensive if you can't amortize [15:45]
mircea_popescu: the "consummer affair" is the gringo's exact version of the "thinking man gave up", coming 2 decades later. (ie, next generation of ustards copied prev generation of soviets. like they always do, btw) [15:45]
asciilifeform: rright but this one here's a tech deadend [15:45]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this concept of "amortize" as you use here is EXACTLY of the nature of brejnev's economic thinking [15:45]
mircea_popescu: 100% hallucinatory. [15:45]
asciilifeform: nobody yet invented how to bake ic 'faberge' style [15:46]
mircea_popescu: soviets did, actually. [15:46]
asciilifeform: the 1st unit costs million and the second -- penny [15:46]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not afaik. [15:46]
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu is referring to the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877417 item, it wasn't troo ic , but capsule with coupla dozen diodes/transistors. moar like small pcb. [15:47]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 20:38 asciilifeform: whereas in e.g. '60s su actually had ic (of a sort) prior to the gringos [15:47]
asciilifeform: the amerifolx were quite disappointed when they found out. [15:47]
asciilifeform: ( it doesn't lsi, much less vlsi ) [15:47]
mircea_popescu: take ro programme : romania never scrapped theirs (was one of ~many~ items ceausescu rightfully called moscow http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/in-re-bitcoin-devs-are-idiots.htm over. [15:47]
asciilifeform: which ? where they baked z80 clone ? [15:47]
mircea_popescu: and the ro made items were ~industrial automation~. the hardware at my house was "officially" being hard at work doing shit for hotels and textile mills. [15:47]
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform looked for a native ro cpu, but never found ) [15:47]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ya, we had an 'iskra' that 'doing hard work in tank targeter comp' [15:48]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes, i'm not discussing end results. a tiny country on the black sea isn't gonna outrun us/su, it ain't fucking finland. [15:48]
asciilifeform: 8086 clone [15:48]
mircea_popescu: but we're discussing the orientation here. [15:48]
asciilifeform: hey bulgaria even smaller, but did also build z80 [15:48]
asciilifeform: and ddr actually managed at least 1 native ic [15:48]
mircea_popescu: point being, "technical calculus institute" still stood in 1990 for random morons (whom ceausescu DID send to mandatory military training, 16 months, taught how to fire and everyhthing) could stand on the roof of "to guard", profiled on the blue romanian skies so they could be shot from any of the surrounding hills [15:49]
mircea_popescu: if anyone cared to. which nobody did. but anyway! [15:49]
mircea_popescu: i very much doubt it was "brejnev's bean counters" that told soviet man to be stupid much as i doubt it was ceausescu who told morons to be morons, and IGNORE 16 months of their own life because "didn't sign up for this", and not eat the fucking fish because "how dares owner think of us as cattle when that's exactly what we are", and so on. [15:50]
mircea_popescu: fact of the matter, for ~these reasons~ i don't even believe mit told original symbolics&co fucktards to be fucktards. [15:50]
asciilifeform: there's a serious fucktardation risk factor one gets from being chronically broke [15:51]
mircea_popescu: not because mit didn't try telling, which it did, of course, but because it's evident the telling does exactly nothing, and mit sitting about going "oh, symbolics fuckards because we told them to" exactly like inca sun priest going "sun rises cuz we told it to!" [15:51]
asciilifeform: makes for bias for 'easy answers' [15:51]
mircea_popescu: not in my experience. [15:51]
mircea_popescu: romania was never as broke as in the 90s, at least not since the 30s. and it never in its history gave as good answers to fundamental problems. [15:51]
asciilifeform: well i did say 'chronically', not ' mircea_popescu that 1 time he forgot his wallet at home ' [15:51]
mircea_popescu: including all, down the way to young women understanding http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/ is what they're for, and any and all pointsd. [15:52]
mircea_popescu: how long does chronically take ? because su was not that poor in 60s. [15:52]
asciilifeform: there is also the 'install base pressure'. recall mircea_popescu's serpent thread, when looked like it may have to be scrapped, 'motherfucker, i built battleship on this thing and NOW you say to scrap' [15:52]
mircea_popescu: so ? [15:53]
asciilifeform: so in '70s was pressure, nato tank has 8bit comp for targeting rockets, so su tank also gotta, etc [15:53]
mircea_popescu: so your idea is that su military complex toppled thinking man into moron pot ?! [15:53]
asciilifeform: but nato could amortize cost of that z80 by selling in atari. [15:54]
asciilifeform: su could not [15:54]
asciilifeform: ended up paying 9000x moar per unit, straight out of treasury [15:54]
mircea_popescu: this makes so zero fucking sense to me... [15:54]
asciilifeform: it makes sense if you stop & think how ic baked. [15:54]
asciilifeform: the real open q is 'why could su NOT also sell in atari' [15:55]
asciilifeform: to this i do not know answer. [15:55]
asciilifeform: they ~did~ ftr figure out 'make toys with tank comp cpu', but 10yrs too late [15:55]
asciilifeform: in '88 or so. [15:56]
mircea_popescu: not even, that's losing into details. [15:56]
asciilifeform: when it could not possibly make diff. [15:56]
mircea_popescu: recall man who said to stalin "i suppose you could do that... but then..." ? [15:56]
mircea_popescu: where's this man's son ? name him ? [15:56]
asciilifeform: kurchatov [15:56]
asciilifeform: i dunno whether he had sons [15:56]
mircea_popescu: no, name the son. [15:56]
asciilifeform: ( stalin's sons also both died, 1 in germany and 1 in bottle , before '50s over ) [15:56]
mircea_popescu: i mean metaphorically! wtf, that conversation happened in the 40s. [15:56]
mircea_popescu: where's the 60s ? [15:56]
asciilifeform: hm [15:56]
asciilifeform: aaa [15:56]
asciilifeform: nobody afaik. that generation was the last with serious spine. [15:57]
mircea_popescu: see, this is my point : at some point somewhere around the 60s, kurchatov jr decided he's gonna... ? [15:57]
mircea_popescu: this is the substance of my original claim. it seems to me russian man decided not to think. and this has no bearing on "cocksucker said". nobody yet has listened to the cocksuckers. [15:57]
asciilifeform: usa also had a figure who resisted '1024 chickens' (his phrase!) -- s. cray [15:58]
asciilifeform: died, crashed his bugati [15:58]
mircea_popescu: very different dynamic in the us -- no wot there. [15:58]
asciilifeform: after that, nomoar interesting irons, fullstop. [15:58]
mircea_popescu: they're literally 1024 chickens, inconsequentially "democratic", fighting the "corruption" of meaning. [15:58]
mircea_popescu: it's a country adequate to the time and needs of jefferson, it'd make the best agrarian 1700s the world has ever seen. [15:58]
mircea_popescu: of course, the chinese don't need that for anything, but w/e. [15:59]
asciilifeform: the aspec of this that stands out to asciilifeform's eye is that ic biz is moar like venus rocket than anyffing else. can't exactly save pennies from sofa cushion and upstart 'against establishment' [15:59]
asciilifeform: unless yer unspeakably loaded ( in usa this existed, and so there ~were~ 'bolixes', oddball affairs that were not 'pdp clone' ) [16:00]
mircea_popescu: it's my considered opinion that taking "the american experience" into consideration for any practical purpose is fundamentally stupid. might as well think in terms of "hey mr wright, this bird of yours is ok, but does it lay eggs ?" [16:00]
asciilifeform: like or not, most of ic formative yrs happened in (old) usa [16:00]
asciilifeform: just as e.g. organic chem is a german biz, by birth [16:00]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform establishment is never looking to crash and burn. not ever. brejnev "nixed" su ic in the exact sense of "happiness" from http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877404 [16:00]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 20:25 mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the retard farms, LordMPofTMSR "Not even kidding." Lola_25 "Umm... what?" LordMPofTMSR "Think of it as an intelligence test. That you're failing." Lola_25 "Great! It seems like a quiz that I'm happy to fail" LordMPofTMSR "You failed everything to date, what "happy". You're happy like the chair's "happy" it can't walk : since it can not walk anyway... Now get lost." [16:00]
mircea_popescu: lyonya25 "is happy to be rid of them" [16:01]
asciilifeform: he was told by viziers that the only approach that has remote chance of staying solvent, was to copy ameri-tech. it had track record of working, surface to air rocket was copied at penny to the dollar of original cost, and worked a++ (still fielded in fact, from that period even) [16:02]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform those formative years are eminently not "amortize" in the batshit insane nonsense of having people-of-walmart involved. [16:02]
asciilifeform: so he went with 'obvious' thing. [16:02]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude, what the everloving fuck, if tomorrow i wake up with the notion evertyone in tmsr gotta get circumcised you're gonna do it ?! brejnev was not this popular or respected, not at any point in his life. [16:03]
mircea_popescu: i tell you, you've got the chain powering the saw over here. [16:03]
asciilifeform: i currently dun grasp what hole mircea_popescu sees in the 'amortize via konsoomer' hypothesis. near as i can tell, it was the exact pattern. 6502 was initially costly, and cost dropped precisely in proportion to how popular 'atari'. [16:03]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you understand what hole i see in "reproduce airplanes through egg laying" ? [16:03]
asciilifeform: it is really mega-mystery that device where nonrecoverable tooling cost is comparable to satellite rocket , is intensely start-topology/centralized affair in management ? [16:04]
asciilifeform: *star-topology [16:04]
asciilifeform: for that matter, brezhnev wasn't 'popular' any moar than steve ballmer was popular. [16:07]
mircea_popescu: let's take this one at a time. do you in fact understand what hole i see in "reproduce airplanes through egg laying" ? [16:07]
asciilifeform: was simply on throne. [16:07]
asciilifeform: i dun get how it plugs in [16:07]
asciilifeform: where's the 'egg' here [16:07]
mircea_popescu: nevermind that part, i'll explain that in the next step. [16:07]
asciilifeform: ok... [16:07]
mircea_popescu: take things one at a time. [16:07]
* asciilifeform will brb in 5m, eat buffer [16:07]
* asciilifeform back [16:17]
asciilifeform: what's the step? [16:17]
mircea_popescu: what is the hole in "reproduce airplanes through egg laying" ? [16:17]
asciilifeform: dunno what's the formula being sought, but how about that they don't, that can go to where built and see that it's factory and not farm ? [16:18]
mircea_popescu: right. let's formalize : [16:18]
* asciilifeform as a larva, was taken to a su plastics factory where father was commissioning sumthing-or-other cover for some mechanism. and learned not only how plastic objects made, but why he 'no canhaz' custom one [16:20]
mircea_popescu: "the notion that airplanes could reproduce through laying eggs is merely a naive extension, in the vein of 'object A has properties a and b object B shares property a and therefore it is reasonable ~~~on a first approximation~~~ to expect it exhibit proerty b'. nevertheless, artifacts differ from nature in that one fundamental aspect, that they're inefficient, and therefore to achieve same ends end up heavy, and in the case [16:21]
mircea_popescu: of staying airborne, weight kills. so therefore, it makes way the fuck more sense to have iron bird's ovopositor on the ground, and construct a http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-26#934786 rather than attempt a http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/ " [16:21]
a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 00:46 asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it. [16:21]
mircea_popescu: now then, the next step : [16:21]
asciilifeform: 'here's d00d with milling machine, he and assistant made this mold, took week, can you pay him for a week? not that it matters, he's booked 365d/y ' [16:21]
mircea_popescu: the notion of "soviet computer work amortizing" is EXACTLY this sort of "naive extension". the ~very concept~ of "amortization" exactly mirrors the concept of "reproduction" in the previous step : you are using a naive notion that you're trying to extend naively. [16:22]
mircea_popescu: amortization is ~not meaningful~ in this context. there's nothing to ever amortize, macro-economically, that's specifically not how a country works. [16:22]
asciilifeform: is contention that asciilifeform is following in the footsteps of the mythical drunk who 'could drink erry day cuz he turned in his glass' ? [16:22]
mircea_popescu: country gets a set of resources each generation, and ALWAYS SPENDS THEM. there's no option to "save", the 20yos now floating about will not be cryopreserved. [16:22]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly. [16:23]
mircea_popescu: since there's no saving, there's no amortization. country does or dies. [16:23]
mircea_popescu: unlike bar down the street. [16:23]
asciilifeform: so, to extend lemma, atari ~because~ cheap ic, and not other way ? [16:23]
mircea_popescu: yay! you get it~! [16:23]
mircea_popescu: hence "you think the chain is powering your chainsaw". [16:23]
asciilifeform: then i haven't anything to go with, i have nfi what powers chainsaw then. [16:24]
mircea_popescu: well, kurchatov, strictly. as per carlyle, history exists strictly as the biography of great men. [16:24]
mircea_popescu: and for ~some reason~ su went dark decade-aniversay-of-stalin-death. [16:24]
asciilifeform: i'll buy. [16:24]
asciilifeform: it is quite evident that there was no kurchatov in 1978. [16:24]
mircea_popescu: now, what the fuck reason, i have nfi. it's comparatively clearer with the gringos, they had been sheep-following su, went off cliff eyes wide open. [16:25]
mircea_popescu: (followed france before, nothing new there) [16:25]
asciilifeform: consider that 'soyuz' rocket that ~still~ produced, is a korolev ('50s, but really stalin-era staff) design. [16:26]
mircea_popescu: no, i am aware. [16:27]
mircea_popescu: wtf happened, women stopped sucking the right part of the cock ? for seven decades ?! [16:27]
asciilifeform: modern ru only distanced from zimbabwe at all because ~those~ d00dz wound up the clock spring. [16:27]
mircea_popescu: exactly so. [16:27]
asciilifeform: ('coincidentally' su folded shop when the ~last d00ds who knew what german mg sounded like, went to grave) [16:28]
mircea_popescu: main problem of historical / archeological work is to discern the coincidence from the item. (is this spec of dust or is it portion of priceless artefact ???) [16:28]
* asciilifeform recalls burial of grandfather, with orchestra, rifle salute, etc. and vague notion that various 'changes' all about are indeed connected with the disappearance of that gen [16:29]
asciilifeform: last gen that worked with stalin and was actually answerable for results, with the psychodynamics of 'it worx, or my arse on a plate' baked into their firmware. [16:30]
asciilifeform: as a larva i had nfi ~why~ the 'grandfathers' were made of diff stuff, quite evidently to naked eye, than errybody's fathers, but was clear that they were. [16:31]
mircea_popescu: why shouldn't a generation reproduce the previous ? if not formally, at least the larger chunks of substance ? [16:34]
asciilifeform: i dunno the answer any moar than the romans knew. [16:34]
asciilifeform: ( recall mircea_popescu's piece with the legionnaires & their armours ) [16:34]
asciilifeform: there's ye olde 'comfort breeds idjicy' hypothesis, but it's a 'what' and not a 'how' [16:35]
* asciilifeform bbl,meat,~hr [16:35]
mircea_popescu: except five minutes ago it was "chronically broke". gringos were overcomfortable. su, not so much. [16:35]
mircea_popescu: those 16 months doing pushups and fucking the mud, those happened. your dad was army grunt was he not ? [16:36]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877555 << in fact, atari is terrible example. consider : su housing free, BECAUSE industrial construction process (discussed pluriously eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832377 ) existed, and might as wqell make hruscheba as wartime-replacement-machining-plant-in-six-weeks-in-ural-jungle (which is wat it was invented for, "industrial" meant a specific thing cca 1941, something in the vei [16:50]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 21:23 asciilifeform: so, to extend lemma, atari ~because~ cheap ic, and not other way ? [16:50]
a111: Logged on 2018-07-06 18:46 mircea_popescu: (ro used the prefab construction process -- first, send mining equipment, flatten land then, put in rail then, roll out a rail crane, and roll prefab on cars up to it then move the derivation [16:50]
mircea_popescu: n of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-24#933189 ). similarily, su books free, because. su collegiate education, free, because. su pineapple expensive, because who the fuck is paying dole its ransom but su milk cheap, because. and so on in this vein -- su hospital free, but does not work like gringo hospital. you know ? [16:50]
a111: Logged on 2014-11-24 22:58 asciilifeform: jurov: tank is a particular type of tractor, let's say. it cultivates sovereignty (or did, in the age of the tank, but why nitpick) rather than edibles. [16:50]
mircea_popescu: if you tally up the list of "well, since we got engine with turbine we get air conditioning free anyway" on either side, usg is an eyesore, and the argument becomes "steam engine locomotive won race because could offer free tea to passenger whereas diesel-electric lost because who wants free electricity anyway". [16:51]
mircea_popescu: any attempt to reconstruct this argument (yeah, but the tea -- coca leaves!!!) dies the same death, ultimately. "this nonsense could only be interesting to morons" "that's ok, we here in gringostan proud country of morons" "and how do you expect to survive on any sort of time horizon ?" "WE SPREAD AGITPROP RE BENEFITS OF STUPIDITY ALL OVER GLOBE!!! WORK PAYS LATER, LAZY PAYS NOW!!!" [16:52]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877574 << i just thought that's what being old is. somehow seems to fit 6yo logic, "duckling grows into duck grows into cow grows into tree". [17:02]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 21:31 asciilifeform: as a larva i had nfi ~why~ the 'grandfathers' were made of diff stuff, quite evidently to naked eye, than errybody's fathers, but was clear that they were. [17:02]
BingoBoingo: The SU may have had the loss of Stalin shock, but my generation grew up in gringostan on a solid diet of "end of history" [17:04]
mircea_popescu: finally time to check out huh. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: close the book, let's go to bed. [17:05]
BingoBoingo: Well, 1990's [17:06]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877296 you know, not like you couldn't use a fg. there's code ready made by smg for all this [17:07]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 18:48 danielpbarron: what time frame is acceptable? [17:07]
mircea_popescu: (talk about "since turbine, get x free" heh.) [17:07]
BingoBoingo: Merkel hadn't driven this new EU thing into the Mud and the Russians had a long rebuild in front of them [17:07]
mircea_popescu: yeah, west-side 90s were epically fucktarded. [17:07]
BingoBoingo: At the time of 9/11 first WTC attack had largely been forgotten in favor of OKC event [17:08]
mircea_popescu: "yay team! we get the benefits of vicarious athelticism!!" "in the sports bar ?" "of course!" "what benefits are those ?" "FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY!" [17:08]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877303 << im sure they'll even host one of yours. didn't you have a crate of them or such ? [17:09]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 18:51 danielpbarron: yeah that's something to consider [17:09]
danielpbarron: i've got crates of pogos, is that the item in question? [17:10]
mircea_popescu: fg, makes entropy. [17:10]
danielpbarron: and re: timeframe above: the idea was use a FG at home to make a big binary file and then send it to the server to use [17:10]
danielpbarron: oh, yeah got lots of those too [17:10]
mircea_popescu: i suppose they'd host a pogo for you, but latest thinking here is that not rly worth the amps. [17:11]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron so why not just use one on the box, send nothing ? [17:11]
danielpbarron: that was re doing it from the shared host i already have [17:11]
danielpbarron: but all sorta moot now because i can't legally opperate a gambling thing [17:12]
mircea_popescu: you can't legally do anything but die quietly in a corner. [17:13]
mircea_popescu: kinda the point of that shithole. [17:13]
danielpbarron: that wouldn't be the worst thing [17:13]
* asciilifeform eats buffer.. [17:28]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877581 << gringostan usedta have an army too [17:29]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 21:36 mircea_popescu: those 16 months doing pushups and fucking the mud, those happened. your dad was army grunt was he not ? [17:29]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877582 << sorta why asciilifeform is an 'old-time su' fan, of sorts. thing was run ottoman-style, 'these are our slaves, let's keep them in decent quarters, actual milk, etc', 'let's build rockets so barbarian invader thinks twice' , etc. 'phree world' sees the plebe as moar of a game animal than farm horse, 'if dies, dies'. turns out, makes for objectively shittier existence for near-errybody. [17:32]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 21:50 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877555 << in fact, atari is terrible example. consider : su housing free, BECAUSE industrial construction process (discussed pluriously eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832377 ) existed, and might as wqell make hruscheba as wartime-replacement-machining-plant-in-six-weeks-in-ural-jungle (which is wat it was invented for, "industrial" meant a specific thing cca 1941, something in the vei [17:32]
asciilifeform: think plantation slaves vs lowell mill gurlz [17:33]
asciilifeform: ( 0 typhus in former, 7-8hr workday vs 14 , etc ) [17:33]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877587 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-15#1299189 [17:34]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 21:51 mircea_popescu: if you tally up the list of "well, since we got engine with turbine we get air conditioning free anyway" on either side, usg is an eyesore, and the argument becomes "steam engine locomotive won race because could offer free tea to passenger whereas diesel-electric lost because who wants free electricity anyway". [17:34]
a111: Logged on 2015-10-15 01:03 mircea_popescu: if you want a Tatra truck, ask for it. [17:34]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877589 << aa but asciilifeform had some exposure to folx who were 'old' but not quite old enuff for having been in the war. ~these~ were 'generic old'. [17:35]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 22:02 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877574 << i just thought that's what being old is. somehow seems to fit 6yo logic, "duckling grows into duck grows into cow grows into tree". [17:35]
asciilifeform: was quite apparent diff. [17:35]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877602 << there's listed pricing for 'rk', 'rk + fg', you get 1 of the pizarro stash with the latter. [17:36]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 22:09 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877303 << im sure they'll even host one of yours. didn't you have a crate of them or such ? [17:36]
asciilifeform: if you want own fg, you put it inside yer own box that you colo. [17:36]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877608 << pogo is a 256MB ram / 2core / 800MHz box, and takes up considerable vertical space if you mount the sata disk rk is a 2GB / 4core / 1.8GHz box, and takes up 2cm of vertical ( and there is existing rack of'em ) [17:38]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 22:11 mircea_popescu: i suppose they'd host a pogo for you, but latest thinking here is that not rly worth the amps. [17:38]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877609 << there's even a vacant rk, available to danielpbarron . [17:38]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 22:11 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron so why not just use one on the box, send nothing ? [17:38]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877612 << indeed. [17:38]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 22:13 mircea_popescu: you can't legally do anything but die quietly in a corner. [17:38]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875757 << see also. [17:39]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 19:05 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i for instance prolly good for three or four hangings, simply on what's in the l0gz [17:39]
* asciilifeform brb,teatime [17:39]
asciilifeform: upstack, since we're connecting loose dots... father's generation pissed away su never knew famine. grandfather's -- built, knew. [17:58]
asciilifeform: for all i know you gotta have famines to get 1 ppm of kurchatovs and 1000 ppm of actual-people per se [17:58]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform usg never had army in the sense here contemplated. had "selective draft" or w/e. [18:04]
asciilifeform: tru [18:05]
asciilifeform: afaik never had 'erry d00d grunts' [18:05]
mircea_popescu: which is the important part of THAT kind of army, not "winning chechen war", but "here we sit in boy hut, waiting for feathers to grow on -- if they take long time, have no one to blame but self" [18:08]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877611 << what's the current state of the art re pokerism, anyway ? has it moved to 100% btc yet , or are idiots still being gassed when they cash out in paypalade and travel to reich 'vacation resorts' for no apparent reason ? [18:08]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 22:12 danielpbarron: but all sorta moot now because i can't legally opperate a gambling thing [18:08]
mircea_popescu: which is why so thoroughly reviled by the http://trilema.com/2017/in-case-you-were-wondering-where-all-the-worthless-nuland-drones-ended-up/ especially in "male" flavouring. [18:08]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same as "state of the art" of strippers, if you recall that lengthy lulz. 100% moved to http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/ [18:09]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw current-day ru ( and great num of other places ) still has 'male hut' army [18:09]
mircea_popescu: "we're failures and that's okay, failing makes us happy" [18:09]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suppose goes great with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877263 [18:09]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 18:37 asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-01-dec-2018#2500924 << pretty lulzy, and apparently not a joak -- indeed some folx, somewhere, habitually move 20-30k coin in 1 shot, and doing it with prb and onto segshitaddrs [18:09]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the technical term on my home planet for these is : жить надоело [18:09]
mircea_popescu: what can you do, danielpbarron decided what he wants is to "obey laws" and NOT beat women. [18:09]
asciilifeform: lit. ~= 'tired of living' [18:10]
mircea_popescu: literally. yes. as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877614 [18:10]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 22:13 danielpbarron: that wouldn't be the worst thing [18:10]
mircea_popescu: end of history, rite. [18:11]
asciilifeform: pretty sad to watch [18:12]
asciilifeform: iirc hanbot had a post somewhere addressed to 1 of these, 'yer already in prison' [18:12]
mircea_popescu: eh, there's infinitely better things to sad over, than the idle contemplation of the intricacies of "why this goat is not boar". [18:12]
mircea_popescu: kinda why "altruism" is such bunk. [18:13]
asciilifeform: i dunno that goat and not boar. iirc danielpbarron used to have moar courage. [18:13]
mircea_popescu: sadly it's not how it goes flighted duckling is not distinguished from flightless duckling by "having more flight spirit". [18:13]
mircea_popescu: the calling is the only way to distinguish, it's an event not a succession. [18:14]
asciilifeform: i actually have nfi how flight program worx in the bird [18:14]
asciilifeform: possibly mircea_popescu can shed light [18:14]
mircea_popescu: when they quack overhead, one takes off. kinda al lthere is to it. [18:14]
asciilifeform: is it ? i was under impression that farm duck flies like chicken [18:14]
mircea_popescu: (also kinda why duck not popular with traditional household farmers -- some domestics develop flight spontaneously) [18:14]
mircea_popescu: maybe 3% or so fly. [18:15]
asciilifeform: ha. [18:15]
asciilifeform: but 97 % not ? wai not ? [18:15]
asciilifeform: ... too fat ? [18:15]
mircea_popescu: bad genetics, bad nutrition, bad culture, who the fuck knows. [18:16]
* mircea_popescu is not a duck expert, but afaik not that much expertise to be had. you can clip their feathers. [18:16]
asciilifeform: heh like some parrot keepers do [18:16]
mircea_popescu: birdlogic, you know ? "why do some cats run off and some don't ?" [18:17]
BingoBoingo: Some chickens need the feather clipping too. Knock a bit off one side and all they can do are small circles [18:19]
asciilifeform: revisiting upstack, the pokerists -- i am led to conclude that usg's inquisition is not particularly vigorous , or the paypalistic poker dens would have gone to sane place as dodo bird [18:19]
mircea_popescu: in chickens that's rather needed w/o all they do is "fly" balistically into nearest road. [18:19]
asciilifeform: *same [18:19]
BingoBoingo: And so it is [18:20]
asciilifeform: evidently there aint enuff selection pressure. [18:20]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the usg lands are constructed out of idiots "making laws" and idiots "following laws". these two are interchangeable, and the system works well for the lowest common denominator. [18:20]
asciilifeform: erry yr or so they hang 1 , ' pour encourager les autres ' [18:21]
mircea_popescu: nobody would even have any objection, if they didn't ineptly get into the way of actual people now and again. (though in fairness it's vastly in the sense of "bus got in way of old man"). [18:21]
asciilifeform: they live in a 'zoological' hatred of actual people, and nail'em whenever the occasion permits [18:22]
mircea_popescu: this has not been my observation, but then again. [18:23]
asciilifeform: well it dun very often permit. [18:23]
mircea_popescu: imo they live in a female (see http://trilema.com/2011/epifania-cu-pedofilia/ ) hatred of beta bois pretending to my regalia. which, honestly, can hardly ever be faulted. [18:23]
asciilifeform: ( recall the bacchanalia of bloodlust when defeat of ghaddaffi , among pantsuit ) [18:24]
asciilifeform: i suspect that mircea_popescu's model is incomplete, i.e. if mircea_popescu were to for some reason http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-18#1726231 , regalia wouldn't help [18:25]
a111: Logged on 2017-10-18 17:54 asciilifeform: ( 'stierlitz walked on the streets of berlin. mueller recognized that he was a soviet spy, but not because of the ppsh machinepistol clumsily slung across his shoulder, and not because of the parachute he dragged behind him, but because of the maker tag on his waistcoat, 'bolshevikess', which in typical russian slopiness had not been torn off.' [18:25]
mircea_popescu: i recall the endless hordes of pantsuit "free women" going there to whore out to him a little for a few decades. what they said at the coffin... w/e, you know how old the dood was ? [18:25]
asciilifeform: 50s neh [18:25]
mircea_popescu: 60s, 70s, that dude parked his pecker in more "gone to ny to be a writer" mouths than hefner. [18:26]
* asciilifeform has 0 specific knowledge of this, but believes [18:26]
mircea_popescu: incidentally, you recall the lulz of kosygin's programme ? [18:28]
asciilifeform: which ? [18:28]
mircea_popescu: (likbez : su was "dictatorship", nevertheless, brejnev got place by talking to everyone about ousting nikita, which then happened even though the retard got wind of the plan, because he was a retard. just like in dictatorship amirite. [18:29]
asciilifeform: recall how hrusch got his. [18:29]
asciilifeform: ~same. [18:29]
mircea_popescu: then brejnev let a certain kosgyn be "boss of economy". and then they had an electoral dispute, as to who should lead. kosgyn came with the lulziest perestroika v0.1a you ever saw) [18:29]
asciilifeform: ( successfully conspired with other 3rdraters to kill beria, the designated kronprinz ) [18:30]
mircea_popescu: his idea was, summarized by someone who's not retarded like they were : that if a) portions of industrial production get redirected to consumer goods and b) the state media finds a vanna white in the zaporoje countriside, then c) soviet union can turn into a large game of stakhanovist jeopardy. [18:31]
mircea_popescu: "name how many heroic worker hours for this fridge! THE SACRIFICE IS RIGHT!!!") [18:31]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform beria was also fucking deranged. [18:31]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i looked into the 'deranged', virtually 100% of the extant sources are tainted with hrusch & co. [18:31]
asciilifeform: it's exactly like going with suetonius re the emperors. [18:32]
mircea_popescu: what can i tell you. [18:32]
asciilifeform: the troof, to the extent i was able to get at it, was that the d00d was ~soft~ and 'modernization'-inclined. and hence got nailed. [18:32]
asciilifeform: ( and then turned into a kinda 'bluebeard' in Official Troof ) [18:33]
asciilifeform: what we do know was that he was kurchatov's direct boss. and presided over mind-bogglingly successful 'yesterday we had horse plow and today nuke' affair. [18:34]
asciilifeform: ( whether in between being bluebeard, or not, fact remains ) [18:34]
asciilifeform: if asciilifeform could pick b/w working for obummer & co, and beria, would pick the latter any day of week. [18:35]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an essay where 'hey, if i strangle you, at least it'll be a man strangling you with hands, and not a cockpuppet with paper' or how did it go. [18:36]
asciilifeform: see also old thrds, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-13#1850267 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-22#1843582 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-07#1294063 , [18:39]
a111: Logged on 2018-09-13 22:28 asciilifeform: it's rather like how when they shot lavrentiy beria -- pile the crimes onto 1 d00d, then flush him, and it's as if the enablers 'never happened' [18:39]
a111: Logged on 2018-08-22 14:27 asciilifeform: fwiw i read usg indictments as works of fiction, not particularly different from e.g. trial of lavrentiy pavlovich beria, 'british, french, and japanese spy' [18:39]
a111: Logged on 2015-10-07 13:51 asciilifeform: this is an old thing. goal-directed work - e.g., 'make atomic bomb for the motherland' - works with a beria holding broomstick up the collective arses of the institute staff. [18:39]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-04#1040229 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-22#1029342 , possibly else. [18:40]
a111: Logged on 2015-03-04 01:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: beria actually picked up women... << based on the sources, i don't regard it as a solid historical fact [18:40]
a111: Logged on 2015-02-22 21:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually, disgraced soviet bureaucrats (usually posthumous - see hruschev's speech re: l. beria) had 'rapacious daily rapist' tags nailed on [18:40]
asciilifeform: ( at some point i'ma have to do a serious with-bib-refs treatment of the subj in engl., afaik none exists ! ) [18:40]
asciilifeform: i'm prolly the wrong fella to do it tho, very much not unbiased, i'll still like the character even if time machine supplies incontrovertible proof that he was a cannibal and ate hot chix erry morning for breakfast [18:41]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is one of the folx who do not regard stalin-on-throne and rockets-fly as a mere coincidence. [18:45]
mircea_popescu: aaanyway -- the korgyn fellow is remarkable (and remarkably funny) because he managed to come up with a 100% worst-of-all-worlds plan of nonsense. [18:46]
asciilifeform: ( not only su rockets -- but errywhere, incl. usa. beria's broomstick was long enuff to tickle arses across ocean just as readily as locally ) [18:46]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: typical end-days fare [18:47]
mircea_popescu: imo this eminent example. kinda why we discuss orel-i-koshka in preference of whatever disney overdressed princess [18:48]
asciilifeform: just picture sumbody losing an eye in a disney film [18:49]
mircea_popescu: not somebody. [18:49]
mircea_popescu: A MOTHER. a heroic mother, losing eye ~in performance of her unworthy of praise or much mention duties~. [18:49]
asciilifeform: aaha [18:49]
mircea_popescu: that's the important part there, as usual off screen : "while this was going on, dad was busy doing actually important shit -- because no, neither cat nor its spawn are it" [18:50]
asciilifeform: asciilifeform recently probed pet, re whether there was a figure like e.g. matrosov, in ameri-folklore. all she could think of was a 1800s mythical character who 'died with hammer in his hand' trying to out-steam a steam hammer [18:50]
mircea_popescu: sounds like germano-polish immigrant fare. [18:50]
asciilifeform: i dun specifically know. but clearly vintage. [18:51]
asciilifeform: likely from same era as luddite movement. [18:51]
mircea_popescu: anyway, to finish k thread -- my read was that his contemporaries read him in the vein of "promising but sadly insane". this happens with some regularity, napoleon himself one thin hair away. [18:52]
mircea_popescu: or w/e, the scientology head muppet, closer example. [18:53]
asciilifeform: ( and to tie this into the other subthread -- by some accts, beria let it slip that he was in favour of 'transition to market system' of some variant. 2 wks later, nailed , actor played him at show trial in 6mo ) [18:53]
mircea_popescu: this seems very not credible to me. [18:54]
asciilifeform: nao i'm curious wainot [18:54]
mircea_popescu: for one thing, "market system" entirely meaningless in the man's context. it's like "moses let it slip he's in favour of nuclear weapons". for the other thing, LENIN came up with the fucking neps. nobody was going to be all that indignant over rehash. in short it predicates both meaning and effect projected from an outside world. [18:55]
asciilifeform: d00d was quite definitely a sort of napoleon, had all kindsa 'let's try things' inclinations. [18:55]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it wouldn't have been 'rehash of nep' that other players indignant over, but ~their removal~, d00d was, i suspect, getting set to clean house. [18:58]
mircea_popescu: maybe. [18:59]
mircea_popescu: stalin certainly was. "designated successor" my foot, if he lived another 18 months they'd have all been decorating pikes, beria first. [18:59]
asciilifeform: at any rate this thread touches qs that are impossible to answer w/out time machine, so i'ma not put moar weight on it [18:59]
asciilifeform: but per my pov , as 'fan' and chronic eater of just about any period material that can be squeezed from the dried mummies , is that beria was a prime mover of all sortsa http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877568 . [19:01]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 21:27 asciilifeform: modern ru only distanced from zimbabwe at all because ~those~ d00dz wound up the clock spring. [19:01]
asciilifeform: b was personal friend, incidentally, of stalin the latter persuaded him , not w/out difficulty, to come out of his local gig in sunny south and work in 'big league' [19:02]
mircea_popescu: this much is true. [19:03]
asciilifeform: his orig place , as i understand, was as a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-15#1872422 . [19:03]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-15 15:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he used to be a kind of fixer, owned a town and http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-28#1036383 [19:03]
mircea_popescu: yet conversely, he might actually be the imago of what later came to be "sluggish schizo". man went nuts in his middle age, or so they thought (or so i suspect they thought). [19:04]
asciilifeform: it isn't impossible that he did but in so far as i can tell 100% of that narrative comes from the folx that killed him & danced on the corpse [19:05]
asciilifeform: ( hrusch for instance is known to have pinned a good coupla 10k corpses that he was himself the author of, on beria ) [19:05]
mircea_popescu: this will stand for later historians. [19:06]
asciilifeform: there's a preserved communique from stalin to hrusch, where the latter served up umpteenth list of meat grinder candidates and stalin replied 'rejected, have measure, idiot' [19:07]
asciilifeform: !#s уймись, дурак [19:08]
a111: 0 results for "уймись, дурак", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%D1%83%D0%B9%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%8C%2C%20%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA [19:08]
asciilifeform: hm. [19:08]
mircea_popescu: durak lol. not exactly idiot. [19:08]
asciilifeform: not exact, no. but in the style of my http://ave1.org/2018/%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5-%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%89-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80/#comment-100 translations. [19:09]
asciilifeform: again -- impossible to authenticate 'did he ? or donation of constantine' w/out time machine. [19:12]
asciilifeform: there are other bits an' pieces. for instance, diaries of serov ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672808 ) were found in 2000s . fwiw i read. the usual rotters all 'fecal consensus' that they are a forgery, but i'm actually sold ( not convinced that they were printed ~uncut~, sure , but that not outright fabrication -- convinced ) [19:16]
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 22:19 asciilifeform aficionado of autobios of the period -- most recently, serov's. and this element -- recurs. [19:16]
asciilifeform: serov describes the coup in some detail, in particular the times & places where various folx who would have gotten in the way, were neutralized [19:17]
asciilifeform: also describes how the usurpers could not decide who is to actually do the wet work ( per serov, beria was killed several days into captivity, not 6mo when Officially 'sentenced' ) [19:18]
asciilifeform: ( incidentally, yet 3rd version is b's son's, who to his grave insisted that father was killed in his office, without surrendering , 'binladen-style' . ) [19:25]
asciilifeform: without time machine cannot say which ver. but overall picture invites itself inevitably , that what happened was exactly that the kakobreklas ganged up & killed their mircea_popescu , and put on his regalia. [19:27]
asciilifeform: an' proceeded to tell themselves, and 'historians', all kindsa bedtime stories. [19:29]
asciilifeform: !#s cocks and socks [19:31]
a111: 1 result for "cocks and socks", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cocks%20and%20socks [19:31]
asciilifeform: ^ see also [19:31]
asciilifeform: hrm, where even was that thing. could've sworn it was in log. [19:31]
asciilifeform: hrusch & co, on contemplation, have all the credibility of 'woodcollector'. [22:55]
asciilifeform: whereas their predecessors' results speak for themselves. [22:55]
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: send me pizarro transactions s'il vous plait, note payments for service in advance i'll put them into the hopper and produce statement numbers. asciilifeform: next girthy table and calculation to write is the customer equity tracker, i will draft and populate with historical data over the next few days and let you know if i hit any puzzlers (low odds, i'm well-acquainted with the process). [23:05]
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876430 << old-timey DSP/IC gent i hired for degrading mobile ui work recently overheard myself and teh boss riffing on john denver boggled: "that music is older than either of you! in chorus: "sure beats ~anything recorded in our lifetimes, though" [23:10]
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 17:38 asciilifeform: the notion that sumbody might turn away from 'modernity' consciously, rather than because alzheimer patient, apparently is a bridge too far for some folx [23:10]
asciilifeform: !#s plus constant [23:25]
a111: 1 result for "plus constant", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=plus%20constant [23:25]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-06-23#98821 << ben_vulpes see also [23:26]
a111: Logged on 2013-06-23 23:41 davout: so this guy goes into a restaurant [23:26]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-02#1877783 << ty ben_vulpes , lemme know if need data plz. [23:28]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-02 04:05 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: send me pizarro transactions s'il vous plait, note payments for service in advance i'll put them into the hopper and produce statement numbers. asciilifeform: next girthy table and calculation to write is the customer equity tracker, i will draft and populate with historical data over the next few days and let you know if i hit any puzzlers (low odds, i'm well-acquainted with the process). [23:28]
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: tyvm, will anotate and dispatch the transactions in a few hours. About to take a second walk tonight (cold wind == Indoor Uruguayos) [23:39]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> hrm, where even was that thing. could've sworn it was in log. << You flipped the words [23:39]
BingoBoingo: !#s socks and cocks [23:39]
a111: 3 results for "socks and cocks", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=socks%20and%20cocks [23:39]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: sorry, i don't follow [23:41]
ben_vulpes: and lol, save thanks for delivery, both of ye [23:42]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: was in re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-02#1877784 [23:46]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-02 04:10 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876430 << old-timey DSP/IC gent i hired for degrading mobile ui work recently overheard myself and teh boss riffing on john denver boggled: "that music is older than either of you! in chorus: "sure beats ~anything recorded in our lifetimes, though" [23:46]
asciilifeform: i.e. proverbial phd cabbie [23:47]
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