Forum logs for 30 Jan 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

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punkman	mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389596 << so like a rotor reimplementation ? << more like some rotor automation to try various builds and lets you know what compiles or not	[00:13]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 01:42:16; punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?	[00:13]
TomServo	mod6: Please assume I've mucked something up before all else. Let me know what I can provide that can be of help.	[00:33]
TomServo	mircea_popescu: System has 2048 MB of RAM.	[00:33]
TomServo	doh dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(10000); :(	[00:36]
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BingoBoingo	I'm sorry Russia https://i.sli.mg/YVzz6l.jpg	[00:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Sqa80y )	[00:40]
punkman	"If you've never peddled the flesh of subhuman garbage creatures to human garbage, you've never lived, and living is a nightmare. Eat arbys"	[01:01]
mod6	oh hai TomServo	[01:02]
mod6	Well, you may have not have `mucked' anything up. Perhaps we can walk through this a bit.	[01:02]
mod6	if you're around tonight, i'd like to walk through some steps.	[01:03]
mod6	If not, tomorrow is fine too. Just want to ensure that we take a look at what might be going on there.	[01:04]
mod6	BingoBoingo: haha.	[01:22]
BingoBoingo	rotational problem for sure	[01:22]
mod6	mmmhmm	[01:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00056029 = 19.8903 BTC [-]	[01:31]
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mod6	ok, let's pick it back up in the morning. night!	[01:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38750 @ 0.00056081 = 21.7314 BTC [+] {2}	[01:59]
TomServo	Sorry, I had to step away. I've rebuilt w/ v99996k and am seeing the correct max_locks.	[02:07]
TomServo	Still have the original build dir if that is any help.	[02:07]
TomServo	Back up and running but no joy yet. Is unwedging unlikely?	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	it should unwedge in a coupla hours or so.	[02:14]
TomServo	cool.	[02:16]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389383 << this is spiffy	[02:26]
assbot	Logged on 29-01-2016 22:09:55; phf: asciilifeform: check it http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition.png	[02:26]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389731 << quite	[02:27]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 02:44:42; mircea_popescu: for the other thing, no. it promotes this anti-computing, anti-intellectual, outright evil view of software being something that is given the user, like an item, rather than the correct view of software being a command given to the computer.	[02:27]
asciilifeform	signed binary can be contemplated when there is simply no escape (e.g., firmware image, compiler bootstrap) but otherwise entirely braindamaged	[02:28]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56400 @ 0.00056275 = 31.7391 BTC [+] {2}	[02:35]
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punkman	https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402 l0l	[02:48]
assbot	Mount efivarfs read-only · Issue #2402 · systemd/systemd · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsPAVX )	[02:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36200 @ 0.00055816 = 20.2054 BTC [-]	[03:00]
ben_vulpes	b. n.	[03:01]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell cazalla hey you	[03:03]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[03:03]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell pete_dushenski 'hysterical raisins'!	[03:04]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[03:04]
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ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389453 << let me tell you, the look of astonishment, disbelief, and 'omg my priors' on $admingurl's face when i told her i valued publishing the ssl piece under my own name so highly that no terrestrial rag could afford to buy it from me was udderly priceless	[03:17]
assbot	Logged on 29-01-2016 23:10:49; mircea_popescu: ie, infantile delusions of sovereignity through "privacy". this doesn't work. sovereignity behaves publicly and with impunity. that is the fucking point.	[03:17]
ben_vulpes	saying "no" to a hundred thousand dollars from Conde Nast is worth approximately 5x the bezzlebuxx in question.	[03:18]
ben_vulpes	oh phf this is lovely	[03:22]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << would it make sense to do this with edge-per-file and filenames on the edges?	[03:23]
assbot	Logged on 29-01-2016 23:34:09; phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk	[03:23]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389544 << i would also dearly like to hear about the setups people have in place for hacking on this codebase	[03:25]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 01:11:50; mod6: it doesn't scale obviously for everyone to have these issues. for my own sanity, we need to make it so that a guy just basically does one thing and then it builds.	[03:25]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform in particular	[03:26]
ben_vulpes	mod6 and trinque as well	[03:26]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389171 << i have floor-to-ceiling mirrors, on which i use expos liberally for maths lessons for the girl and alphabet lessons for the kid	[03:28]
assbot	Logged on 29-01-2016 19:58:18; ascii_butugychag: with ink markers	[03:28]
ben_vulpes	but black is the only acceptable dry-erase color.	[03:29]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388975 << a million goddamn fucking times this	[03:30]
assbot	Logged on 29-01-2016 18:58:55; ascii_butugychag: the overall idea i am trying to teach is that anybody changing a line of trb ought to be mindful of the work this creates for others	[03:30]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388910 << and to think i was trying to gently guide the keyid in question to enlightenment	[03:32]
assbot	Logged on 29-01-2016 18:31:10; ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it bothered me that polarbeard apparently does not yet fully grasp that every line he writes is a unit of ~work~ for other people to do.	[03:32]
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ben_vulpes	first: node.js. second: "naw, vpatches are for faggots". third: 2.5kloc patch degendering reference implementation log statements.	[03:41]
ben_vulpes	i am unconvinced that the six months have been paid, or that if they have any impression has been made.	[03:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00055816 = 4.8281 BTC [-]	[04:07]
punkman	http://dpaste.com/3AGX101 that plog library in single .h file after some crud-snips	[04:13]
assbot	dpaste: 3AGX101: plog.h single file ... ( http://bit.ly/1VwCzt3 )	[04:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73400 @ 0.00055794 = 40.9528 BTC [-] {2}	[04:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6279 @ 0.00055821 = 3.505 BTC [+]	[04:39]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38200 @ 0.00055939 = 21.3687 BTC [+] {2}	[05:45]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00056046 = 9.752 BTC [+]	[05:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 221850 @ 0.00056194 = 124.6664 BTC [+] {4}	[06:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98900 @ 0.00056358 = 55.7381 BTC [+] {3}	[06:33]
thestringpuller	Has Gavin really been turned into kid who eats glue in class? Cause he really seems that way when he says stuff like:	[06:53]
thestringpuller	"Gavin: ... that's another form of centralization that I find much more worrying than network security. If the only entities participating are only high-net worth people, then those are pretty easy to get at and control."	[06:53]
thestringpuller	Yes cause people like mircea_popescu are so easy to control.	[06:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00056263 = 6.3015 BTC [-]	[06:54]
thestringpuller	The SEC tried that you big dummy. Go back to MIT and continue to eat glue.	[06:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00056403 = 18.1618 BTC [+] {2}	[07:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36950 @ 0.00056468 = 20.8649 BTC [+] {3}	[07:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73668 @ 0.00056545 = 41.6556 BTC [+] {4}	[07:41]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23591 @ 0.00056555 = 13.3419 BTC [+]	[08:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155105 @ 0.00056605 = 87.7972 BTC [+] {3}	[08:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16070 @ 0.00056607 = 9.0967 BTC [+] {2}	[08:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179230 @ 0.00056735 = 101.6861 BTC [+] {6}	[08:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58015 @ 0.00056805 = 32.9554 BTC [+] {3}	[09:40]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76203 @ 0.0005695 = 43.3976 BTC [+] {3}	[10:07]
punkman	http://www.economist.com/news/business/21688871-china-wants-become-superpower-semiconductors-and-plans-spend-colossal-sums	[10:28]
assbot	Explicit cookie consent \| The Economist ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEwGzJ )	[10:28]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller idiots actually moved to 100% discussing what i say, STILL can't fucking say my name ?	[10:29]
mircea_popescu	seems the matter of control is squarely resolved in the field. mp can get to anyone in usg, to anything to them he damned well pleases. so it goes.	[10:29]
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mircea_popescu	!up AKWAnalytics	[10:40]
-assbot-	You voiced AKWAnalytics for 30 minutes.	[10:40]
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mircea_popescu	!up kimowski	[10:40]
-assbot-	You voiced kimowski for 30 minutes.	[10:40]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389782 << dude what in carnation are you on about. conde nast and money ?! wut ? 100k is their yearly budget for all of jezbel, you plan to churn out 10k attention whoring, vaguely concern trolling 500word pieces ?	[10:41]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 06:16:40; ben_vulpes: saying "no" to a hundred thousand dollars from Conde Nast is worth approximately 5x the bezzlebuxx in question.	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	!up Frankie8	[10:41]
-assbot-	You voiced Frankie8 for 30 minutes.	[10:41]
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mircea_popescu	!up aknix	[10:41]
-assbot-	You voiced aknix for 30 minutes.	[10:41]
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mircea_popescu	!up eamonnw	[10:41]
-assbot-	You voiced eamonnw for 30 minutes.	[10:41]
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mircea_popescu	!up itkin-	[10:42]
-assbot-	You voiced itkin- for 30 minutes.	[10:42]
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mircea_popescu	!up kefkius	[10:42]
-assbot-	You voiced kefkius for 30 minutes.	[10:42]
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mircea_popescu	!up Ripchord	[10:42]
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mircea_popescu	!up villan_	[10:42]
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mircea_popescu	!up wpalczynski	[10:42]
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mircea_popescu	check it out, it's new guy day over at #b-a farms!	[10:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39450 @ 0.00056679 = 22.3599 BTC [-]	[10:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389784 << you know, ~he~ wrote his own lispy v.	[10:43]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 06:22:15; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << would it make sense to do this with edge-per-file and filenames on the edges?	[10:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389800 << nb, turns out only like 600 or so.	[10:45]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 07:12:25; punkman: http://dpaste.com/3AGX101 that plog library in single .h file after some crud-snips	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	i had archive.is preserve the dpaste just in case anyone wants it after it expires. assbot has the link.	[10:45]
kimowski	hi	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389822 << they can afford it. unlike the us.	[10:47]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 13:27:06; punkman: http://www.economist.com/news/business/21688871-china-wants-become-superpower-semiconductors-and-plans-spend-colossal-sums	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	how goes ?	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	"so as to cease being dependent on foreign supplies." the chinese dream since forever. and they'll get it, too.	[10:48]
kimowski	19s4DPDAw6F6nkjbUX1Rywb7vnjtGxdFX6	[10:49]
kimowski	script?	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	wut ?	[10:50]
AKWAnalytics	hello #bitcoin-assets. MP, thank you for voice. Cheers.	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	and who might you be AKWAnalytics ?	[10:50]
AKWAnalytics	Just some guy. I need to verify ident as AKWAnalytics. My real name is Adam Wyatt.	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	nice to meet you.	[10:54]
AKWAnalytics	Likewise.	[10:54]
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mircea_popescu	"In the government’s earlier efforts to boost domestic manufacturing of solar panels and LED lamps, it spread its largesse among a lot of local firms, resulting in excess capacity and slumping prices. This time it seems to be concentrating its firepower on a more limited group of national champions. For instance, SMIC of Shanghai is set to be China’s champion “foundry” (bulk manufacturer of chips designed by ot	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	hers). And HiSilicon of Shenzhen (part of Huawei, a maker of telecoms equipment) will be one of a select few champions in chip design.	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	Most intriguing of all, Tsinghua Unigroup, a company spun out of Tsinghua University in Beijing, has emerged in the past year or so as the chosen champion among champions, a Chinese challenger to the mighty Intel. Zhao Weiguo, the firm’s boss, started out herding goats and pigs in Xinjiang, a remote province in north-western China, to where his parents had been exiled in the 1950s, having been labelled as dissidents.	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	After moving to Beijing to study at the university, Mr Zhao made a fortune in electronics, property and natural resources, before becoming chairman and second-largest shareholder (after the university itself) at Tsinghua Unigroup."	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	talk about the chinese dream.	[11:01]
mats	moar arm garbage incoming	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	oya.	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	im rather curious what their strategic choice will be to unseat intel.	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	i'd imagine they'd opt for "countless multitude"	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	so arm.	[11:10]
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mats	pls no	[11:32]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00056678 = 29.0191 BTC [-] {2}	[12:02]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148072 @ 0.00056276 = 83.329 BTC [-] {4}	[12:07]
mircea_popescu	why not ? will be great. lumbering chinese golem strong enough to fracture nato, force whatever remnants are actually worth saving into #b-a, crush the rest into alabama.	[12:11]
mircea_popescu	this actually played out once before and it was epic.	[12:11]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389866 << correct. of pNohe, tablet, etc. rubbish.	[13:09]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 14:08:37; mircea_popescu: i'd imagine they'd opt for "countless multitude"	[13:09]
asciilifeform	NOT workstations.	[13:09]
asciilifeform	and guess what - they PAY THE FUCKIN BRITISH for 'license' for arm!	[13:09]
asciilifeform	(it blew me away also when i learned this)	[13:09]
asciilifeform	not ONLY do they use the foreign devil's masks, complete with backdoor turds, but PAY.	[13:09]
asciilifeform	and loongson co. PAID for mips license ! and began using american mask, whole. i found this out and lost all interest because wtf.	[13:10]
asciilifeform	that's the thing with orcs, they are very easily bought.	[13:11]
asciilifeform	some cn politburo moron's daughters were admitted to princeton, or the like, in exchange for this 'strategic genius move'	[13:11]
asciilifeform	almost certainly.	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it happens to be the correct strat for the table.	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	and they'll get some bonus from redditard going "oh, this will make chips like 3d printable!11"	[13:12]
asciilifeform	which table? to be nato's mineral whore while paying for the privilege ?	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	you know on the long term the whore wins.	[13:12]
asciilifeform	i dun see it	[13:12]
asciilifeform	wake me up when an arm is designed on an arm workstation. anywhere on the planet.	[13:13]
asciilifeform	and when the chip masks are also laid out by arm cluster.	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	which is why the prisons are full of orcs with "booze and women put us here" rather than the other way around	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	no idea where this mineral idea came from, but if you look on the net china is an importer of minerals. be it canadian oil or euro gold, they mostly buy.	[13:15]
asciilifeform	these aren't minerals in the usual sense.	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	...	[13:15]
asciilifeform	speaking of pb, rare earths, and the like.	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	they're getting a lot of mileage out of the rare earths.	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	much moreso than say saudis are getting out of their oil.	[13:16]
asciilifeform	re: arm, every few yrs i get an attack of the temptation to build a new workstation, and it never happens, and probably never will. would dearly love to buy something nato-free, wouldja tell me ~where~ ?	[13:16]
asciilifeform	(and if it takes 100 hours to build motherfucking trb, it is NOT a workstation!)	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	sure. i'll send the list to your cardano device!	[13:17]
asciilifeform	l0lz	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	im actually curious which happens first, trb hardware delivery or cn hardware delivery.	[13:17]
punkman	asciilifeform: there are more "server ARM" things coming out lately, might eventually have a workstation	[13:18]
asciilifeform	i always found it interesting that cn can not only not design own intel substitute, but cannot even ~produce shit copy~	[13:18]
asciilifeform	punkman: they are rubbish, every single one i ever saw. PLUS i'm not interested in nato arm !	[13:18]
asciilifeform	which is EVERY SINGLE ONE EVER made	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	you know what michael famously said ?	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	"i always found it interesting turks can not only not design own greek fire, but can't even produce shit copy!"	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	just as teh cannons were blaring.	[13:19]
asciilifeform	iirc they could not even use it when found	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	quite so.	[13:19]
asciilifeform	but actually i think mircea_popescu is right, we will have a 'triumph of the cockroaches' situation	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	it's the correct strategy for the table.	[13:20]
asciilifeform	'plebe does not need to compile anything'	[13:20]
punkman	they wouldn't really sell a lot of bootleg-intels. shit ARM copy does power the megatons of phones though.	[13:20]
asciilifeform	punkman: correct, nobody gives a damn about workstations	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	when man fell asleep drunk, the molds get the food.	[13:20]
asciilifeform	but if intel were somehow to cease to exist, cn et al would feel the heat.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	cn has made a career out of an inability to feel the heat.	[13:21]
asciilifeform	at that point, no arm either, just plow and kalash manufacture.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	i'm kinda curious if they're in for another great leap forward actually	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	so far they were fortunate to get very liberal minded leadership	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	the ru "90yos get together to decide which 70yos should retire" thing in full swing, but producing much less spew than the ru version did	[13:22]
asciilifeform	possibly same spew but does not make it over the ocean ?	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	i do have some (limited) microphones in there tho	[13:23]
asciilifeform	cn is historically a champ at absorbing own spew	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	notice incidentally how isis isn't making a single move in THAT direction.	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	why not bomb nanking ? oh...	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	because they're US puppets. riiiight.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	whole fucking thing's driven by china and they don't even have to do anything.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	in other news, oldest txn in mempool ? first seen jan the 25th, usual 14.7kb crud with 0.00015 fees.	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	this faux "use" of bitcoin capacity has been ongoing for close to a year now.	[13:29]
asciilifeform	i will l0l to death when i find out that mircea_popescu's tx debugger was ~also~ lisp-based	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	and they are getting included, and basically EVERYONE is stuck storing 14.7kb in exchange for a one time payment of nothing at all in btc or about 5 cents to a third party	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	it's fucking ridiculous. the current cost of 14.7kb is something like	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 100/1000000000 * 14.7	[13:31]
gribble	1.47e-06	[13:31]
mircea_popescu	so basically, if 10k people store the blockchain, it takes just as much in hard drive costs to store the damned txn as the miners get for including them.	[13:31]
asciilifeform	i don't recall anybody (other than that lukejr fella) crying when s.dice was doing this.	[13:31]
mircea_popescu	and this is no fancy sort of setup with raids and backups and whatnot. just man and his single cpu single hdd playstation.	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform actually the whole power ranger array threw a hissy fit, started bitching about censoring txn and whatnot,	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	i had to publicly bitchslap them and privately threaten burning and pillage to get them to shut the fuck up already.	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	but THAT was not only an economic activity - it was the only economic activity in bitcoin at the time.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	this inept jockeying and pointless us-style politics bs...	[13:33]
asciilifeform	this i recall, pretty much nothing else yet worked	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[13:33]
*	asciilifeform even played, once, on s.dice !	[13:33]
*	mircea_popescu recalls the times when provisioning a bitcoin node came with "just set quota 100 gb or something, it'll never get there".	[13:34]
asciilifeform	l0l aha	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	now i can't even buy SSDs - admitting i somehow wanted to - because lol what, sub tb space ?!	[13:35]
asciilifeform	i just got a tb ssd in	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	and even the current state of the art spindle drives... they won't last for ever. that'll be an interesting bitcoin-fs application	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	properly spanning volumes.	[13:35]
asciilifeform	incidentally there is a peculiar fact about the supply line for those. just about all of the retail vendors here in washingtonistan... ration them	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	leftover from the crisis days i imagine.	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	because that's how bureaucracy goes in and then never leaves.	[13:36]
asciilifeform	we needed half a dozen 1tb ssd last year at $plant and had to buy from that many vendors.	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	wtf is this inept shit anyway ?	[13:37]
*	mircea_popescu would have never bought. "sell me the half dozen or go to hell."	[13:37]
asciilifeform	the folk rumour is that somehow there is an agreement where 'cloud' turdfarms get first dibs	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	this is illegal and you have standing to fucking sue.	[13:37]
asciilifeform	and any reseller found to be selling freely to plebes, will get to pay retain rates to samsung itself	[13:37]
asciilifeform	sure as fuck	[13:38]
asciilifeform	perhaps we can win five cents a head like the paypall class action just did	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	"your honor, i tried to buy a hdd and they refused to sell me. vendor told me they have an illegal arrangement to promote the business interests of Amazon cloud services. I want 100 dollars in liquidated damages and 10bn in punitive damages kthx."	[13:38]
asciilifeform	why feed the lawyers.	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	you just file that, and let the good times roll in.	[13:38]
asciilifeform	they roll in. for lawyers.	[13:39]
mats	lol	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	just file an' see.	[13:39]
asciilifeform	anyway, as with the almost 100 year philips light bulb cartel, nobody who gives a fuck has any proof, nobody with proof - gives a fuck, etc.	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	eh, proof. you ever heard of discovery ?	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	they provide teh proof.	[13:40]
asciilifeform	proof that would get a law firm interested, is what i was thinking	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	you can file yourself.	[13:41]
asciilifeform	this requires time & money.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	like 40 bucks or so iirc.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	65, something like that.	[13:41]
asciilifeform	and dance in the court yourself also?	[13:41]
asciilifeform	why not mircea_popescu do it ?	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	i don't live there nor have i yet run into the problem.	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	i do sue people that get in my way, tho.	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	at any rate, the plan's very simple, go to large nat'l retailer, load half a dozen disks, when the cashier refuses to sell them sucker punch him, get the police report to say he wouldn't sell you the drives, pay the whatever it is to have punched a dude and settle for whatever coupla mil they're willing to pay to avoid discovery.	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	your cut should be more or less the coupla mil, minus cab fare.	[13:43]
asciilifeform	afaik this is only at online retailers, physical shops simply charge 100-200 usd more	[13:44]
asciilifeform	and don't have the problem	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	if what you mean is that large buyers get volume discounts, well doh ?	[13:46]
asciilifeform	nono	[13:46]
asciilifeform	'amazon' et al just have narrower margins.	[13:46]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00056819 = 8.6365 BTC [+] {3}	[13:57]
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ben_vulpes	eyy, mod6 so i just spun up v.pl on a new box and despite wget not being installed v.pl still claims successful sync	[14:47]
mod6	um...	[14:48]
mod6	oh, defect i guess?	[14:48]
mod6	i'll have to check it out. thanks for letting me know.	[14:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056772 = 8.5726 BTC [-]	[14:50]
mod6	<+ben_vulpes> mod6 and trinque as well << hacking the codebase? << I just build the statically linked bin with rotor via the build-bitcoind script that everyone uses.	[14:51]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389788 << what would ben_vulpes like to know ?	[14:51]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 06:24:52; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform in particular	[14:51]
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mod6	i do a lot of testing etc. often if I'm actually going to change a line of code, i'll press out a seperate branch call it 'foo', go in there copy a & b, then make changes in b. make a vpatch. drop it in my live bitcoin branch, rebuild with the rotor. bunch of stuff.	[14:53]
ben_vulpes	(reminds me a bit of the "check every return code" naggum line)	[14:57]
mod6	i just re-read what I typed there (sorry, just woke up, slept like the dead), and i don't mean to make it sound like a single line, even if sometimes it is! i just make the changes i need, the most minimal changes possible, then drop 'em in and see.	[14:59]
asciilifeform	speaking of pc parts, found http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/15893/Novyj_korpus_Zalman_TNN500AF_ili_1_kilogramm_tishiny.html << ancient ru picture review of infamous ~entirely motherfucking silent~ pc chassis. good illustration of what this means. entirely unobtainable today at any price.	[14:59]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QO1VDy )	[14:59]
mod6	but, i typically don't hack straight on the built trb, ususally on a separate branch.	[15:00]
mod6	i use the built thing to test my code changes and other config changes.	[15:00]
asciilifeform	ftr i still use my original rotor build scripts.	[15:00]
asciilifeform	i don't need or want the www loading stuff for anything.	[15:00]
asciilifeform	in fact i think it ought to be abolished and replaced with pressed silver cd.	[15:01]
asciilifeform	it isn't as if the dependencies will EVER change !	[15:01]
asciilifeform	re: the hardware pr0n link earlier, it is a good example of what i call an ~iridium toilet~ - as DISTINCT from a golden toilet, it is a device that is build with 1) price is no object 2) NOT FOR showing off and playing idiot tlp rolex status games.	[15:02]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> in fact i think it ought to be abolished and replaced with pressed silver cd. << im not sure how to build this excatly. this is part of what we wanna talk about next week.	[15:05]
mod6	not only with the makefiles, but are we actually thinking about distributing all the deps ON CD?	[15:05]
asciilifeform	mod6: at the very least, all of the stuff presently loaded from www, could easily go on cd	[15:05]
asciilifeform	yes all of the deps	[15:06]
asciilifeform	why the hell not ?	[15:06]
asciilifeform	there is what, a few 100M of them ?	[15:06]
mod6	just a lot of 'em .	[15:06]
asciilifeform	half a dozen	[15:06]
mod6	yeah... there's a handful. i dunno, makes me nervous.	[15:06]
asciilifeform	and loading them from the jungle every time, not nervous ?	[15:07]
ben_vulpes	tres nervous.	[15:07]
mod6	the whole thing maybe lol.	[15:07]
ben_vulpes	we should really do a bsd, and sell the discs for a bitdime each.	[15:07]
mod6	ok, we can revisit this next week.	[15:07]
ben_vulpes	or rather, i'd like that.	[15:07]
asciilifeform	i will laugh my self ~to death~ if it turns out that wget was 0day'd	[15:08]
mod6	ben_vulpes: heheh. its more like: here's the source code, see what you can do with this. unless .1, then you can have CD and volla!	[15:08]
mod6	we're totally not going to do that btw.	[15:08]
asciilifeform	but in all seriousness, a battlefield trb oughta be built on a virginal airgapped box.	[15:08]
asciilifeform	this means cd with known bits.	[15:09]
mod6	someone asked me why I don't create vpatches of the changes to V.	[15:09]
mod6	and that's basically because it's not "ready" per-se.	[15:09]
mod6	maybe in 6 months to a year, then we'll be in a spot where it's in a more hardened form. takes some time, and people using it to flush some of the shit out.	[15:10]
jurov	https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/673724/d9809e674cde21df/ emacs does what?	[15:10]
assbot	Removing support for Emacs unexec from Glibc [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1QO2Zr2 )	[15:10]
jurov	"the Emacs unexec() function that converts the running program into a new executable."	[15:10]
asciilifeform	jurov: this is sorta like 'save-lisp-and-die' in the cl world	[15:11]
jurov	but to hardwire it in the build process and C library?	[15:11]
mod6	oh yeah, and i remember now...	[15:12]
asciilifeform	'Stallman, though, thought that it would be better discussed in private: "This a sensitive issue; it is best to discuss it without an audience."' << sad.	[15:12]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> why the hell not ? << because i tried to kinda sorta do this already... buildroot is hardcoded to download (rsync) all of its deps and stuff it needs from net. we'd have to "hack" our own buildroot.	[15:13]
mod6	heh, kinda like V.	[15:13]
asciilifeform	it is necessary.	[15:13]
asciilifeform	and i will note that ~my~ v load NOTHING from the net.	[15:13]
asciilifeform	and i still see this is as the Right Thing.	[15:13]
asciilifeform	it is the responsibility of the operator to feed the hopper.	[15:14]
asciilifeform	how would you feel about a table saw that walks around looking for what to saw ?	[15:14]
mod6	i guess v99995 could rip all that stuff out. certainly would condense the code a bit.	[15:15]
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ben_vulpes	i'm with stan, fwiw.	[15:17]
mod6	okie dokie.	[15:17]
ben_vulpes	a small step to the disc would be to slam buildroot, openssl, bdb and boost into a tar.gz and stick it on the website.	[15:18]
ben_vulpes	idem for the vpatches.	[15:18]
mod6	not sure i follow there, what'd be the techincal purpose of that?	[15:18]
ben_vulpes	rather than including procurement of deps in the build scripts, force users to actually download the deps themselves.	[15:19]
TomServo	or a nob to include a local path, else procurement?	[15:21]
mod6	TomServo: hey! did you ever get unwedged?	[15:22]
TomServo	Negative. Was just going to ask if there is any value in keep it..	[15:22]
TomServo	keeping it running*	[15:23]
mod6	i would 100% start over, including in your .bitcoin dir.	[15:23]
TomServo	will do	[15:23]
mod6	it doens't take long to pass that spot anyway.	[15:23]
mod6	alright, thanks, let us know.	[15:23]
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jurov	asciilifeform: there are more "server ARM" things coming out... << you really want like, 64 shitty cores on the workstation instead of 4x x86?	[15:27]
asciilifeform	jurov: i want a non-nato computer.	[15:28]
asciilifeform	is this hard to understand ?	[15:28]
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asciilifeform	and yes, this means arm doesn't cut it even if somehow 500x faster.	[15:28]
jurov	i asked punkman, not you	[15:28]
asciilifeform	arm is a british design.	[15:28]
asciilifeform	ok	[15:28]
jurov	and i don't have anything to say about non-nato computers3	[15:31]
phf	ben_vulpes: so actually inside the patch hunks are grouped by files, what i was referring to as hunks are actually per file hunk groups. so in other word the graph is already edge-per-file. i added the labels but it looks dodgy http://glyf.org/tmp/labels1.png http://glyf.org/tmp/labels2.png	[15:35]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1nuXnGn )	[15:36]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1nuXmCf )	[15:36]
ben_vulpes	aha, that's what i thought!	[15:36]
ben_vulpes	yeah, messy.	[15:36]
ben_vulpes	phf: is this mod6's svgerator or your own?	[15:37]
mod6	ok, well i did just rip out all the sync/init/mirrors parts of V	[15:38]
mod6	and it eliminates at least 167 lines of code.	[15:38]
asciilifeform	mod6: neato!	[15:38]
mod6	and seems to work ok... but i'll hvae to test this quite a bit.	[15:38]
ben_vulpes	(and the wget 0day!)	[15:38]
asciilifeform	phf: spiffy diagram, quite like what i had in mind originally in fact	[15:38]
mod6	is it worthwhile to rip out my graphing stuff out of V?	[15:39]
asciilifeform	phf: now, instead of the multiple arrows, which really don't convey any useful info, it would be interesting to vary the ~thickness~ of the lines based on the 'weight' of the change.	[15:39]
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asciilifeform	mod6: not unless it could somehow exist separately	[15:40]
asciilifeform	the graph thing is very useful.	[15:40]
mod6	alright, fwiw, it does work. could use some more colorization and attention to details like you and Mr. P. have suggested.	[15:40]
asciilifeform	phf: ah i just noticed that you had the file changes marks. this ~is~ useful.	[15:40]
mod6	i just haven't focused on that part as much for obv reasons.	[15:40]
mod6	so -- i might need several weeks at min to test out v99995 of V	[15:41]
mod6	i gotta re-write a lot of automated tests and stuff too.	[15:41]
mod6	actually, it might just elimiate a bunch of tests.	[15:42]
jurov	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389596 << what would this be good for? you are welcome to sign + post the binaries to ml yourself	[15:43]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 01:42:16; punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?	[15:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115400 @ 0.00056589 = 65.3037 BTC [-] {4}	[15:44]
mod6	asciilifeform: while i'm on the subject (and anyone else for that matter): is there anything else that should be excised from the current V [v99996] ?	[15:44]
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mod6	aside from the sync/mirrors/init stuff?	[15:44]
mod6	i'd like to get this into "battle-ready" shape once and for all.	[15:45]
mod6	also, hehe, i downloaded this scheme interpreter to play with on my phone.	[15:46]
mod6	its pretty funky.	[15:46]
phf	asciilifeform: right, it's a state transition graph, with edges corresponding to file changes	[15:48]
phf	asciilifeform: http://glyf.org/tmp/war-room.png	[15:54]
asciilifeform	neato	[15:54]
phf	that one looks pretty cool	[15:55]
mod6	cool	[15:55]
asciilifeform	war room!	[15:56]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[15:56]
asciilifeform	for completeness, arrows oughta be red, on black	[15:56]
phf	haha	[15:56]
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ben_vulpes	heh	[16:01]
asciilifeform	http://www.computerworld.com/article/3027924/it-industry/obama-wants-4b-for-more-computer-science-education.html << from the l0ltr0ns	[16:05]
assbot	Obama wants $4B for more computer science education \| Computerworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1QO7IZN )	[16:05]
asciilifeform	cocktail of lulz	[16:06]
asciilifeform	such as: microshit in charge of 'computer education'	[16:06]
asciilifeform	and 'The timing of Saturday's announcement is slightly awkward for the White House. On Friday, security researcher Ashkan Soltani revealed that he was denied a security clearance to work there as a senior advisor to U.S. CTO Megan Smith. While Soltani declined to speculate on the government's reason to refuse the clearance, he previously worked with the Washington Post on analyzing documents from NSA leaker Edward Snowden.'	[16:06]
asciilifeform	https://twitter.com/ashk4n/status/693221584933363712 << i have no idea who he is/was, but this is hilarious	[16:06]
asciilifeform	http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/29/white-house-tech-researcher-denied-security-clearance-edward-snowden-nsa << moar from the other usa	[16:07]
assbot	White House denies clearance to tech researcher with links to Snowden \| Technology \| The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1PHcyCJ )	[16:07]
asciilifeform	aryans only plox !	[16:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40895 @ 0.00056178 = 22.974 BTC [-] {2}	[16:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39905 @ 0.00056028 = 22.358 BTC [-]	[16:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82382 @ 0.00056849 = 46.8333 BTC [+] {2}	[16:22]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389999 << just as it should be	[16:31]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 17:51:53; mod6: i do a lot of testing etc. often if I'm actually going to change a line of code, i'll press out a seperate branch call it 'foo', go in there copy a & b, then make changes in b. make a vpatch. drop it in my live bitcoin branch, rebuild with the rotor. bunch of stuff.	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	in... other ? news, http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/world/americas/argentina-scrambles-to-fight-biggest-plague-of-locusts-in-60-years.html	[16:32]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1QOaBtn )	[16:32]
ben_vulpes	think they're going to try the sterile males trick?	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390020 << they do get signed. seems a minor point, how you get them.	[16:34]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 18:05:48; asciilifeform: and loading them from the jungle every time, not nervous ?	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes i think they're going to try the sit around and talk about it while it goes away or whatever trick	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	they are, after all, americans.	[16:34]
ben_vulpes	paha	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390029 << da fuck are you on about, bitcoin nodes connect to internet.	[16:35]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 18:07:37; asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, a battlefield trb oughta be built on a virginal airgapped box.	[16:35]
asciilifeform	BUILT	[16:35]
asciilifeform	as in, compiled.	[16:35]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390128 << this is pointedly mistaken. pgp messages are ALSO signed, yet we use airgapped boxes. why?	[16:36]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 19:32:50; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390020 << they do get signed. seems a minor point, how you get them.	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390047 << how do you feel about a slut walking around looking for a cock to suck ?	[16:36]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 18:13:03; asciilifeform: how would you feel about a table saw that walks around looking for what to saw ?	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	what, all tied to walls all day long ?	[16:36]
asciilifeform	building battlefield crypto bin on a box with no nic is the Right Thing.	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	looky : your design whereby a better water piping system consists of introducing a one foot gap somewhere so people can be employed to run the water across in buckets isn't as brilliant as it seems.	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	there's a time and place for all things.	[16:37]
asciilifeform	it isn't brilliant or sexy, but it is necessary.	[16:37]
asciilifeform	wget entails a vast shitstack.	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	if the machine is never going to connect to the internet, building on it airgapped is sane.	[16:38]
asciilifeform	and a box on the other end, incidentally.	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	if the machine will connect ot the internet anyway, what the fuck do you imagine "airgapping" it does ?	[16:38]
asciilifeform	not IT	[16:38]
asciilifeform	the ~build~ box	[16:38]
asciilifeform	see the difference ?	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	no.	[16:38]
asciilifeform	wasn't speaking of the ~run~ box	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	but the convenience here is exactly that i just compile on the run boxes.	[16:38]
asciilifeform	i get that this is convenient. i did this with some of my nodes. but ultimately this is a sinful sort of convenience.	[16:39]
mircea_popescu	which is how i discovered yest that for instance we have an undocumented "bc" dependency in the build tree	[16:39]
asciilifeform	let me guess, buildroot's.	[16:40]
mircea_popescu	all convenience is sinful by this measure. there's nothing wrong with a little sin.	[16:40]
mircea_popescu	now, mind, i don't think it's wrong to have a cast cd of the thing, just like i don't think it's wrong to have an iridium idol of the "meter" somewhere in france	[16:40]
asciilifeform	entirely wrong analogy. the point of cd is to have 10,000 iridium metres.	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	but don't expect me to go to paris every time i'm about to fit tits for corsets.	[16:41]
asciilifeform	let'em diddle the disk on ~everybody's~ desk.	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	even so.	[16:41]
asciilifeform	let's put it this way, that bdb tarball ain't ever chaning	[16:41]
asciilifeform	*changing	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	understand that introducing the ability to read cds is an unneeded kludge.	[16:41]
asciilifeform	ditto bdb	[16:41]
phf	asciilifeform: http://glyf.org/tmp/war-room2.png not quite right, but i like it	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	the bitcoin machine HAS TO internet	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	it does not have to cd.	[16:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QObxhu )	[16:42]
asciilifeform	build machine doesn't.	[16:42]
asciilifeform	plus the purpose of the cd is pointedly NOT to be read each time.	[16:42]
asciilifeform	but as a standard.	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	so then you internet a signed binary over rather than a v tree. meh.	[16:42]
asciilifeform	you can push a tarball to your online box.	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	i much prefer building on the dest box whenever feasible.	[16:42]
asciilifeform	do you see the point of the openbsd cd ?	[16:42]
asciilifeform	i - do.	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	i also never used it.	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	i did use the old debian cds, back in the day.	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	but that because internets sucked then	[16:43]
asciilifeform	they suck today.	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	i don't even see the value of maintaining the cd as a thing in the world. it can go the way of the celuloid film afaic.	[16:44]
asciilifeform	it is similar to the value of ~paper~	[16:45]
asciilifeform	bits that enemy cannot flip no matter how much he tries.	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	according to proponents. it's similar to the value of vinyl, in reality.	[16:45]
danielpbarron	the point of openbsd cd is to compare against downloaded version, no?	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	paper, i write and read with my own hands.	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	cds, not.	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	so paper is in this sense the same as --clearsign. a cd is not that, not even remotely.	[16:45]
asciilifeform	aluminum cd, in inert atmosphere, will easily outlast parchment.	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	and also it's trivial to rewrite a cd. most of them are rewritable realy.	[16:46]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu : FORGET about the rewritables!!!	[16:46]
asciilifeform	they were NOT in the conversation.	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	they are rewritable to some degree whether you wantthem to be or not.	[16:46]
asciilifeform	SPECIFICALLY aluminum pressed cd.	[16:46]
asciilifeform	and no, it motherfucking is not.	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	heh	[16:46]
asciilifeform	go, rewrite 1 bit for me.	[16:46]
danielpbarron	get nubbins` or someone to make some nice artwork on it and i'll buy	[16:47]
asciilifeform	in order for the idea to have any meaning, it has to be a pressed cd.	[16:47]
asciilifeform	(yes, with the glass die, and whole orchestra)	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	so to summarize : a) they're less resilient than you imagine them to be ; b) they're more rewritable than you imagine them to be ; c) keepi9ng them around requires keeping a whole pile of kludge that never worked right (cd drivers etc).	[16:47]
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mircea_popescu	you wanna write trb by hand on stone, fine.	[16:47]
asciilifeform	demonstrate rewriting of al pressed disk plox ?	[16:47]
asciilifeform	srsly	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	you wanna press a vinyl copy of it... whatevs floats your boat but dun go all fetish-hypster on me	[16:48]
asciilifeform	and what 'cd drivers.' modern drives plug through usb and enumerate as mass storage std.	[16:48]
asciilifeform	if you can connect any external disk, you can connect cdrom reader.	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform can we agree at least on the concept that the notation you'll use consists of making different sized holes for 0s and 1s ?	[16:49]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: they aren't simply 'different sized holes', there is reed-solomon encoding	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	...	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	yes or no will suffice.	[16:49]
asciilifeform	it is not enough to burn an extra hole with gigantic laser, if that is what you were thinking.	[16:49]
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asciilifeform	(incidentally this is a first-class bitch to do with aluminum, esp. if you want the result to be visually inconspicuous, and not, say, a hole through the WHOLE disk sandwich.)	[16:50]
asciilifeform	it has good thermal conductivity. i can't make so much as a dent in aluminum foil with 40W co2 tube.	[16:51]
asciilifeform	there is a reason why cd-r uses dye rather than metal for the burn layer.	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	none of this is really germane.	[16:52]
asciilifeform	but let's posit an enormous tube. you will need to use excimer laser, i suspect. disk - will warp.	[16:52]
mircea_popescu	the cd remains a sort of vinyl disc, for a, b and c above.	[16:52]
asciilifeform	it is germane if it illuminates the hypothesis of 'can't quietly flip a bit on this'	[16:52]
asciilifeform	thus far - it stands.	[16:52]
mircea_popescu	it's more or less a 1966 argument that "it is not possible to alter a vinyl disc once printed because hurr durr the plastic will melt"	[16:53]
asciilifeform	'a' is lunacy - there is NO more durable machine-readable storage presently known.	[16:53]
asciilifeform	cd laughs at magnetic field, at electrostatic discharge, has nothing that self-oxidates if in inert atmosphere.	[16:53]
asciilifeform	does not conduct current.	[16:54]
asciilifeform	etc	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i gotta go to town. we can continue this when i'm back, but less symbolistic fetishism, more alphabetic monotheism plox.	[16:54]
asciilifeform	'b' is an interesting hypothesis and i would pay to watch it demonstrated.	[16:54]
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asciilifeform	'c' is more defensible but we all have crates of usb cdrom readers.	[16:54]
*	asciilifeform also bbl	[16:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10975 @ 0.00056441 = 6.1944 BTC [-] {2}	[17:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155458 @ 0.00057014 = 88.6328 BTC [+] {3}	[17:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29300 @ 0.00057049 = 16.7154 BTC [+]	[17:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49507 @ 0.00057198 = 28.317 BTC [+] {3}	[17:29]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29350 @ 0.00057217 = 16.7932 BTC [+]	[17:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 423 @ 0.00284835 = 1.2049 BTC [-] {7}	[17:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71400 @ 0.00057049 = 40.733 BTC [-] {2}	[17:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18156 @ 0.00056947 = 10.3393 BTC [-] {3}	[18:11]
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phf	can someone with a full press (including shiva 2) verify that this is remotely correct hashes http://paste.lisp.org/display/306216 ?	[18:59]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki2WCp )	[18:59]
mod6	i can take a look, give me a few.	[19:07]
mod6	ok do i understand this right? (i haven't done this since before the re-bake of tinyscheme)	[19:16]
mod6	i need this:	[19:16]
mod6	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000198.html	[19:16]
assbot	[BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN6qPP )	[19:16]
mod6	and this:	[19:16]
mod6	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html	[19:17]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P )	[19:17]
mod6	and speaking of which, i'd also like to note that all of the sigs (seals) in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html are misnamed. http://dpaste.com/1KRXSBM.txt	[19:22]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P )	[19:22]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki4GLR )	[19:22]
mod6	for the sake of this test, i'll just rename these in my .seals dir as they should be.	[19:23]
mod6	http://dpaste.com/2Q73DJV.txt	[19:27]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki58K3 )	[19:27]
mod6	ok pressed out & compiling...	[19:29]
mod6	if this works, i'll do a clean and then grab the file hashes.	[19:29]
mod6	ok compiled cleanly.	[19:33]
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mod6	with V [v99996] pressed out cleanly when:	[19:42]
mod6	./v.pl p v rotor/TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch	[19:42]
mod6	http://dpaste.com/26FWQ55.txt	[19:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki6moM )	[19:42]
mod6	here, phf, this one is sorted: http://dpaste.com/3WNFNYA.txt	[19:45]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki6BjE )	[19:45]
mod6	awe crap, sorry my manifest file is in the list.	[19:46]
mod6	here: http://dpaste.com/27R03Q0.txt	[19:46]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki6GUz )	[19:46]
mod6	looks like our header files differ for sure.	[19:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66243 @ 0.00056278 = 37.2802 BTC [-] {3}	[19:52]
mod6	yeah, we got a bunch of files that differ. but i might have built something that you haven't.	[19:53]
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phf	mod6: thanks! well more common then different	[20:34]
phf	i pressed it programmatically, without "patch" utility, before leaving home, so didnt have time to test it	[20:35]
phf	so its encouraging that at least some files match	[20:36]
mod6	ah, ok. cool.	[20:39]
mod6	asciilifeform will have to confirm/deny that i used the correct patches.	[20:39]
shinohai	>.>	[20:40]
shinohai	Gonna try another 99996 build	[20:41]
mod6	ah ok. just to see if you hit that same PERL_MM_OPT thing? or just on another OS?	[20:44]
mod6	we need to get that script into deedbot so we can update the wiki	[20:44]
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shinohai	I'm doing a fresh, vanilla image so imma see what happens.	[20:51]
mod6	coo	[20:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57496 @ 0.00056576 = 32.5289 BTC [+] {2}	[21:00]
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mats	amd is dying	[21:07]
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BingoBoingo	mats: Where is it bleeding now?	[21:21]
jurov	Where is v.py available to download?	[21:24]
jurov	even v.pl, for that matter... :)	[21:25]
jurov	http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/the_real_bitcoin does not indicate the thing exists at all	[21:26]
assbot	the_real_bitcoin [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/238YcVW )	[21:26]
jurov	and search.b-a won't find anything immediately useful	[21:27]
jurov	i do have it, just trying on another computer, and said to myself - let's try this from perspective of newcomer	[21:28]
jurov	looks like i got stymied right at very first step	[21:28]
ben_vulpes	"read everything on the mailing list and call me in the morning"	[21:28]
jurov	rly.	[21:31]
jurov	okay, adding that to wiki	[21:31]
kakobrekla	and once mailing list is thousands of pages, still the way to go?	[21:32]
ben_vulpes	it's a joke!	[21:36]
kakobrekla	hard to say.	[21:37]
ben_vulpes	some truth in it.	[21:38]
mod6	<+jurov> even v.pl, for that matter... :) << this is available in the ML & on the foundation homepage.	[21:38]
mod6	<+jurov> http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/the_real_bitcoin does not indicate the thing exists at all << this should probably say something separate about V. but the build script grabs it as part of the build & verify proces.	[21:39]
assbot	the_real_bitcoin [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/238YcVW )	[21:39]
mod6	*process	[21:39]
mod6	so in reality, no you don't need V or anything. i think if you just follow dpb's wiki steps it's all good.	[21:40]
mod6	but it really does need to be updated for v99996 today.	[21:40]
mod6	trinque can you pu'http://dpaste.com/2VBF9V2.txt' in there (maybe run a dos2unix on it first) with a title like the other one ala 'build-bitcoind-V99996K.sh' or whatever?	[21:42]
mod6	danielpbarron: do you wanna update the wiki as soon as there is a get-able deedbot entry for this?	[21:43]
mod6	i guess i could do the deedbot part, not sure how to work it th	[21:44]
mod6	tho	[21:44]
mod6	oh looks like you can just pass it a dpaste	[21:45]
jurov	i have added short info to that page	[21:45]
jurov	yes it's on foundation homepage, i was blind	[21:48]
BingoBoingo	At times we all are bling	[21:49]
mod6	deedbot: http://www.mod6.net/btcf/build-bitcoind-V99996.sh	[21:54]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/20A0Hyq )	[21:54]
mod6	oh its not even in here.	[21:54]
mod6	ok.	[21:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 281900 @ 0.00056106 = 158.1628 BTC [-] {8}	[22:01]
BingoBoingo	cd laughs at magnetic field, at electrostatic discharge, has nothing that self-oxidates if in inert atmosphere. << Been doing cleaning and have taken to playing pressed cd's that by many rights out not be playing. (not a single cd-r from mess has played yet, including a few 5+ year old "archival" turds)	[22:05]
danielpbarron	what needs to be changed? just the url to the .sh ? or are some of the steps different now?	[22:06]
BingoBoingo	Has anyone yet tried making an alibaba shopping list for necessary equipment to start a cd replication line?	[22:06]
ben_vulpes	deedbot.org script mentioned above i believe uses asciilifeform's old key	[22:12]
ben_vulpes	hey, stan's bouncer died!	[22:12]
mod6	<+danielpbarron> what needs to be changed? just the url to the .sh ? or are some of the steps different now? << yeah, i think the steps are going to be fine, other than the URL to the new script (when we finally get it deedbotted) and the name of the script.	[22:17]
mod6	ofc. we'll wanna put our newb hats on and try the steps anyway tho	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390077 << this is a bad idea inasmuch as it leaves my build process stranded, so i'll be stuck forever using current v and i suppose forever pressing 9996 then ?	[22:20]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 18:36:47; mod6: ok, well i did just rip out all the sync/init/mirrors parts of V	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390098 << it's altogether unclear to me how it isn't battle ready.	[22:25]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 18:43:48; mod6: i'd like to get this into "battle-ready" shape once and for all.	[22:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90346 @ 0.00055924 = 50.5251 BTC [-] {2}	[22:25]
ben_vulpes	so what is the thing to be done with korsgaard's key?	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	nfi.	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	ideally, you go read the whole fucking thing, rebase and sign as your own.	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	then i can exclude his key and pretend he never lived.	[22:27]
ben_vulpes	> read buildroot	[22:27]
ben_vulpes	mk	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	so then nothing.	[22:27]
ben_vulpes	mod6: do you expect me to have korsgaard's key in my personal keyring when running build-bitcoind-V99996K.sh?	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	and this is generally the way it goes. anyone wants to "take wget out" - fine. the path to this is you write your own wget, sign it and use that.	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390293 << sucks, huh. but good find.	[22:30]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 00:27:16; jurov: looks like i got stymied right at very first step	[22:30]
mod6	i actually think if you follow the steps in the wiki, jurov is incorrect, you don't need to know anything about V. or download it seperately, or anything. the script does it all for you.	[22:31]
mod6	same as the makefiles will do.	[22:31]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell trinque hey buddy looks like your makefiles depend on keys in the personal keyring	[22:31]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	mod6 well on the theory he didn't want to run the script.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	i suppose this qualifies as advanced use tho	[22:31]
mod6	yeah, cause if you don't run the script, then you need to set up everything, including the rotor, buildroot & copying around the config, and tons of other stuff.	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	yeah. and, of course, the code is the standard, so just read the script as a guide :D	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	funny how this shit works.	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	anyway, in fairness : we had a little bit of excited & explosive growth here past coupla months, will take a little to digest it into proper form.	[22:33]
shinohai	That script is like cliff notes, I couldn't live without yet.	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390311 << yup that's how it works. simplicity is the mother of inventions.	[22:34]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390077 << this is a bad idea inasmuch as it leaves my build process stranded, so i'll be stuck forever using current v and i suppose forever pressing 9996 then ? << yeah, i read your comments earlier on this. part of "battle-ready" to me means not only that it has lordship blessing, but it doesn't break any security paradigms that we m	[22:34]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 00:44:05; mod6: oh looks like you can just pass it a dpaste	[22:34]
assbot	Logged on 30-01-2016 18:36:47; mod6: ok, well i did just rip out all the sync/init/mirrors parts of V	[22:34]
mod6	ight hold in our minds.	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	well i am unaware of this "cd based security paradigm" as anything other than a chewing-gum and ductape concoction of no practical consequence.	[22:34]
mod6	sure.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	nodes are internet machines, they stay on the internet and are expected to work safely and securely online. end of story.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	museum nodes can be created as a derivative work at any time, they'll be as funky as pornography is. not real sex.	[22:35]
mod6	i might regret the notion of using wget someday, but I figured it possibly better than writing some native code in perl that would most likely utilize some module, or even importation of the module directly.	[22:36]
mod6	the only real way around this is for me to write all of that stuff by hand.	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	it's a sore spot, but it's treated properly imo : quite clearly in the open.	[22:36]
mod6	which, might eventually happen.	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	and the avenue to fix it is also well known. wget is open source. rebase.	[22:36]
mod6	nod	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	for that matter you know, bdb is also a piece of shit. and openshitmypants and so on.	[22:37]
mod6	<+ben_vulpes> mod6: do you expect me to have korsgaard's key in my personal keyring when running build-bitcoind-V99996K.sh? << yup, this is how it works if we want to verify the buildroot package cryptographically.	[22:37]
mod6	now, we could have automated this into a temp keyring	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	i honestly dun see what the problem is here. what is the problem here ?	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	so the key gotta be in keyring. so ?	[22:38]
mod6	i guess that may not be horribru. ask users to gather up pub keys, place in a separate dir other than .wot, import them into temp keyring, use them, and then remove the temp keyring when finished.	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	and this gains us what ? more inconvenience ?	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	gpg --import not gnarly enough ?	[22:39]
mod6	basically.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	logcially, if you're not willing to import a guy's key, why the fuck are you pulling his code. write your own or w/e.	[22:39]
mod6	exactly.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	not like if trb.buildroot pops up tomorrow i wouldn't at least consider it.	[22:39]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform likes to scream about how dumb the keyring is	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390320 <<< it's a lot easier to pretend cds are the golden standard of archival while sitting on a flac collection safely kept on a rpm hdd.	[22:41]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 01:03:51; BingoBoingo: cd laughs at magnetic field, at electrostatic discharge, has nothing that self-oxidates if in inert atmosphere. << Been doing cleaning and have taken to playing pressed cd's that by many rights out not be playing. (not a single cd-r from mess has played yet, including a few 5+ year old "archival" turds)	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes yeah. he also screams about how dumb usg is, hasn't yet moved away.	[22:41]
mod6	i think his 'p' or whatever the name is, is going to do away with that -- least iirc.	[22:41]
ben_vulpes	i'm struggling to build a cohesive mental model for the right way to approach this gordian knot	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	whining in here is the right way.	[22:41]
ben_vulpes	i'm just fumbling in the dark	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	no hint of sarcasm or anything.	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	even if it usually turns out to have been a stupid idea/whatever, still whining in here is the right way to approach teh knot.	[22:42]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell trinque i may be exceptionally retarded today, but is there a reason why shit/Manifest.sha256 doesn't contain a hash for buildroot?	[22:42]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	im pretty sure there's a hash in the script	[22:42]
*	assbot gives voice to gernika	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	the one that makes the rotor.	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	mod6 what's the scriopt called ? the one that makes rotor.sh ?	[22:43]
ben_vulpes	build-bitcoind-whateverk.sh?	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	fuck i don't even know what anything's called.	[22:43]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: i'm using trinque's experimental makefiles.	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	it really should have a name, apparerntly i saved it variously as press.sh vconfig.sh etc	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	ah ah nm me	[22:43]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: cd's aren't magic, but a cd press might serve a useful purpose for distributing samizdat that lasts.	[22:43]
mod6	ben_vulpes: the buildroot hash is in deps/Manifest.sha512	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo sure.	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	and generally - for bringing internet water into teh deserts.	[22:44]
gernika	mod6: fwiw successfully built and currently running 99996	[22:44]
mod6	hey!	[22:44]
mod6	congrats gernika. thanks for testing & reporting	[22:44]
*	ascii_rear (~ascii_rea@pool-173-73-235-152.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:44]
mod6	i need to update my wot one of these days.	[22:45]
gernika	np. one of these days I'm gonna find a bug or somethin :)	[22:45]
mod6	keep lookin, it all helps us.	[22:45]
BingoBoingo	!up ascii_rear	[22:45]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_rear	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	in an alt world, bitcoin blocks come once a day, are 737.280 MB in size, go around on CDs	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	wd gernika	[22:45]
ascii_rear	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390324 << scheduled maintenance on the box, removing pounds of dust	[22:45]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 01:11:40; ben_vulpes: hey, stan's bouncer died!	[22:45]
ascii_rear	and installing new raid disks	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	ascii_rear it's only scheduled if yo usay before we do :D	[22:46]
mod6	im digging through the shiva code :]	[22:46]
ascii_rear	l0lz	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	!rated gernika	[22:46]
assbot	You rated user gernika on 04-Jul-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	!rate gernika 1 Managed to press 99996	[22:46]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d26d0b8b2603e53d	[22:46]
ascii_rear	mod6: see anything that doesn't make sense ?	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gernika.1:0460d190229514ca15052ed9ecf853adc7340cd5620aca6d64495d00876c7a7a	[22:47]
assbot	Successfully updated the rating for gernika from 1 to 1 with note: Managed to press 99996	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, speaking of config setups : 1. pick a list of TRB nodes ; 2. add to ifconfig, deny all others ; 3. plug eth cable, congrats, you now have a secure box. go ahead install all the toolbar spyware you care to, won't matter.	[22:48]
ascii_rear	mircea_popescu: and your online build of buildroot et al?	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	also won't matter.	[22:49]
mod6	<+ascii_rear> mod6: see anything that doesn't make sense ? << not yet. was just poking through how you load this thing up (in src/shiva.h\|.cpp) - also looking at how to define more operations	[22:49]
ascii_rear	mod6: the hacking.txt that comes with classical tinyscheme is helpful	[22:50]
mod6	i did dig through all of the src/shiva code too - but since im not super cluded on scheme yet, dont quite know everything thats going on there.	[22:50]
ascii_rear	there is also an 'example.c' floating around on the net that has moar examples	[22:50]
mod6	saw a lot of func pointers that seem to expose an interface into the thing tho	[22:50]
mod6	unless im wrong about what that was doing.	[22:50]
mod6	i guess that was all in scheme.h	[22:52]
mod6	i gotta digest all of this a bit. heheh.	[22:52]
mod6	thanks for the pointers.	[22:52]
*	raedah (~raedah@172.56.39.22) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:52]
ascii_rear	mod6: it took me ages to fully grasp how tinyscheme works. actually had to finish sicp for the basic mechanics of schematron to fully fall into place in my mind.	[22:52]
mod6	the thing thats a bit backwards is trying to learn how scheme works through the lens of C/C++	[22:53]
ascii_rear	the important message here is something else, the shiva console is not to be considered publicly exposable in any sense	[22:53]
mod6	for sure, just like you wouldn't want to expose your rpc port to 0.0.0.0	[22:53]
ascii_rear	it is intended to be a more dangerous version of existing rpc, eventually you will be able to flip arbitrary bits in the data structures with it	[22:53]
mod6	ah. right, with the debugging parts enabled. yeah, danger lurks.	[22:54]
ascii_rear	nono my point is	[22:54]
ascii_rear	it lurks ~now~	[22:54]
ascii_rear	tinyscheme is not in any sense hygienic.	[22:54]
mod6	point taken.	[22:54]
ascii_rear	(exploitable overflow was actually found in it, in 2012)	[22:55]
ascii_rear	but, 1) there is a skull on the patch for a reason 2) there is not actually an alternative to tinyscheme.	[22:55]
mod6	oh, ok. was that ever repaired? or isn't updated? i thought I saw the guys comment on his website that said "until i'm dead" or something?	[22:55]
mod6	was I dreaming?	[22:55]
ascii_rear	mod6: that one - fixed	[22:56]
mod6	ok	[22:56]
ascii_rear	but reading the code has filled me with disgust	[22:56]
ascii_rear	!s idiomatic	[22:56]
assbot	16 results for 'idiomatic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=idiomatic	[22:56]
ascii_rear	see latest thread	[22:56]
mod6	was tinyscheme a beter alt than minischeme simply because of its size and ability to fit in head?	[22:56]
ascii_rear	no	[22:56]
ascii_rear	it is a descendent of minischeme	[22:56]
ascii_rear	that has programmable i/o ports and arrays	[22:56]
ascii_rear	we can't actually use a scheme that lacks these.	[22:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116400 @ 0.00055816 = 64.9698 BTC [-] {4}	[22:57]
mod6	ah	[22:57]
ascii_rear	otherwise i would have used classical minischeme.	[22:57]
mod6	im gonna keep reading scim see what i can figure out.	[22:57]
ascii_rear	tinyscheme is the smallest (loc and complexity-wise) schematron that has these necessaries.	[22:57]
ascii_rear	scim?	[22:58]
mod6	i think i wanna try to work from tinyscheme/shiva -> C++ interface with bitcoind -- seems a more sane way to figure this thing out.	[22:58]
mod6	rahter than the reverse.	[22:58]
ascii_rear	ah	[22:58]
ascii_rear	there is much to be done there, incl. reimplementing the classical rpc hooks	[22:58]
mod6	err ya sicp	[22:59]
mod6	my bad	[22:59]
mod6	anyway, yeah, i feel like if we bring this thing into the fold, i aught to know what the back end is doing.	[22:59]
ascii_rear	but eventually we ought to be able to do spiffy things like writing my memory usage grapher ~entirely in shiva~, etc	[22:59]
ascii_rear	adding custom friend-or-foe stuff, or whatnov	[23:00]
ascii_rear	*whatnot	[23:00]
mod6	sure, there seems to be a bunch of power here in this tool - would be nice to harness that and make some useful stuff.	[23:00]
ascii_rear	the nice thing about scheme vs. some random bozo half-lisp is that it is an actual STANDARD	[23:00]
ascii_rear	so potentially we can write our own, eventually, to replace tiny.	[23:00]
ascii_rear	(there are hard tests for compliance, can run these)	[23:01]
mod6	there suprisingly isn't ~that~ much code.	[23:01]
ascii_rear	aha, as i said, it is the smallest known	[23:01]
ascii_rear	but very gnarly nonetheless.	[23:01]
ascii_rear	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390327 << can we at least have the option of loading from local dir instead of www ?	[23:02]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 01:18:57; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390077 << this is a bad idea inasmuch as it leaves my build process stranded, so i'll be stuck forever using current v and i suppose forever pressing 9996 then ?	[23:02]
mod6	you can do that just fine.	[23:02]
mod6	you don't ~need~ to run the init command at all	[23:03]
mod6	just create a 'patches' and '.seals' dir in the same dir as v.pl and you're golden	[23:03]
ascii_rear	what would be handy is if the thing could spit out a manifest of all the crap it expects to find	[23:03]
ascii_rear	i was thinking of buildroot	[23:03]
ascii_rear	and the deps	[23:03]
mod6	oh for like the makefiles and stuff? i think we were just gonna put the stuff in the shit dir iirc.	[23:04]
mod6	but then it pulls all kinds of stuff.	[23:04]
mod6	well, a dozen or so ya.	[23:04]
mod6	but anyway, if we wanna stuff all of that stuff into shit as well, then we need to hack on buildroot to not rsync it -- now we've forked our own.	[23:04]
mod6	or are you saying something different?	[23:05]
ascii_rear	nah the very same	[23:05]
mod6	i went down this road probably like in december or november or something. just was its own ball of wax.	[23:06]
shinohai	ok mod6 test completed, did not have to set set the perl option before building	[23:06]
ascii_rear	;;later tell BingoBoingo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390322 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-12-2015#1350992 >> think more 'chip fab' than 'iphone assembly line'	[23:06]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[23:06]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 01:05:43; BingoBoingo: Has anyone yet tried making an alibaba shopping list for necessary equipment to start a cd replication line?	[23:06]
assbot	Logged on 23-12-2015 04:23:56; asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEnmSem8C-0	[23:06]
ascii_rear	and yes, the things fucking LAST	[23:07]
ascii_rear	i have 25 y.o. cds that read without any problems	[23:07]
ascii_rear	trick is that they gotta be pressed aluminum	[23:07]
mod6	<+shinohai> ok mod6 test completed, did not have to set set the perl option before building << ok good deal, i assume that the PERL_MM_OPT thing is an evironment deal.	[23:08]
ascii_rear	and not shit	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	ascii_rear> but eventually we ought to be able to do spiffy things like writing my memory usage grapher ~entirely in shiva~, etc << quite. once this is fully functional debugging in trb can not be matched, period. by anyone, anywhere, doing anything.	[23:08]
BingoBoingo	ascii_rear: It's like a hard drive assembly line. Rather far from chip fab obstacles.	[23:08]
ascii_rear	BingoBoingo: watch the film at least until where the sintering machine appears	[23:08]
ascii_rear	sputtering	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	so in this sense mod6 it has my imprimatur that bothering to grok it isn't a waste of your finite time.	[23:08]
shinohai	yeah it seems when I was doing lappy setup I changed something.	[23:08]
ascii_rear	sputtering machine.	[23:08]
ascii_rear	mircea_popescu: aha, that was why i did it originally	[23:08]
ascii_rear	it will rock especially hard when i get the emacsatron in (see slime thread)	[23:09]
shinohai	dff2d2d6267c4c4a4bfb5015ca2bd7e18953a5933e2eafca69403549b9c99229 bitcoind	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	ascii_rear> can we at least have the option of loading from local dir instead of www ? <<< now that is a very good idea.	[23:09]
ascii_rear	keying crud manually into the repl shell suxxx	[23:09]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> so in this sense mod6 it has my imprimatur that bothering to grok it isn't a waste of your finite time. << yeah, agreed, Sir.	[23:09]
BingoBoingo	ascii_rear: I see nothing that preculdes guerilla cd operation from being done in reasonably clean warehouse for 1 or 2 new chevy suburbans worth of captial outlay.	[23:10]
ascii_rear	BingoBoingo: not entirely impossible	[23:10]
thestringpuller	at height=322956 core 2 duo takes about 45 seconds to 1 minute per block verification...	[23:10]
ascii_rear	next thing i will do, supposing that nobody else takes it up, is to make the mempool shiva-walkable	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller aha. this was discussed time and again in the very logs.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	ascii_rear do some other work for a while.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	going too fast here isn't gonna help anyone.	[23:11]
ascii_rear	i got plenty	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	i know it's exciting and all. but, pace in all things.	[23:12]
mod6	yeah, you've got some time yet before we can really dig into that in earnest anyway.	[23:12]
ascii_rear	mircea_popescu: most of what you see in shiva is old wurk	[23:12]
ascii_rear	realize that i have a vast collection of crud	[23:12]
mod6	we need to focus on the makefiles & the release. meanwhile im sure theres a zillion other things.	[23:12]
ascii_rear	most of it quite unfit for publication	[23:12]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_rear	[23:15]
mod6	!up ascii_rear	[23:16]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_rear	[23:16]
ascii_rear	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390334 << ahahahaha l0l sure	[23:16]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 01:25:55; mircea_popescu: ideally, you go read the whole fucking thing, rebase and sign as your own.	[23:16]
ascii_rear	go, read.	[23:17]
ascii_rear	buildroot is one of those things that suck donkey corpse ballz but there is NO alternative to.	[23:17]
ascii_rear	(please wake me up if one is discovered!!1)	[23:17]
ascii_rear	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390382 << absolute gold standard, nothing else even comes close. SO LONG AS we are talking about aluminum cd.	[23:18]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 01:39:47; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390320 <<< it's a lot easier to pretend cds are the golden standard of archival while sitting on a flac collection safely kept on a rpm hdd.	[23:18]
ascii_rear	mask rom is prolly a close second, but it is vulnerable to electrostatic	[23:19]
ascii_rear	and holds pitifully small chunks	[23:19]
ascii_rear	ONE cd would handily hold the source to every public software package worth taking to mars with you.	[23:20]
ascii_rear	and compiler.	[23:20]
BingoBoingo	hole punched teflon ticker tape is probably actual gold standard, but...	[23:20]
ascii_rear	mno, ever have a jam ?	[23:20]
BingoBoingo	With other tape yes, but the kind of jam that would deform teflon?	[23:21]
ascii_rear	if BingoBoingo is thinking of the teflon tape used in plumbing, i can hardly imagine a worse punched ribbon	[23:22]
ascii_rear	the thing stretches and warps when you so much as fart on it.	[23:22]
BingoBoingo	ascii_rear: I'm thinking more the sheets used for the grilltops at McDonalds.	[23:23]
BingoBoingo	Or maybe tyvek would be a better candidate	[23:24]
*	raedah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:25]
*	trixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:31]
*	trixisowned (~trixis@2601:280:4102:c7de:b0fb:fcbf:6bcc:89c) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:33]
BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2016/01/california-environmentalists-fight-to-save-endangered-nuclear-plant/	[23:35]
assbot	California Environmentalists Fight To Save Endangered Nuclear Plant \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/20f2j3L )	[23:35]
*	imposter (uid57046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jtnzdtluqpwcemae) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:38]
*	ascii_rear bbl	[23:39]
*	ascii_rear has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[23:39]
*	trinque-out (ac38071a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.172.56.7.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:39]
BingoBoingo	!up trinque-out	[23:40]
*	assbot gives voice to trinque-out	[23:40]
*	raedah (~raedah@172.56.39.22) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:40]
trinque-out	deedbot will be back later this evening. The DC neglected to turn the thing back on after SSD installation and I had to depart the keyboard. Meanwhile just send me anything that needs to go through and it'll happen tonight.	[23:41]
*	trinque-out has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[23:45]
mod6	;;later tell trinque this to be deedbotted: http://www.mod6.net/btcf/build-bitcoind-V99996.sh	[23:50]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[23:50]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/20A0Hyq )	[23:50]
*	Frankie8 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:55]

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