Forum logs for 29 Sep 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

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BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Still tense last I checked	[00:26]
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mircea_popescu	;;later tell RPrpRP http://trilema.com/2014/o-hai-let-me-wanna-be/#comment-108254 btw.	[01:34]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:34]
assbot	O hai let me wanna-be! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[01:34]
mircea_popescu	!up vorandrew	[01:35]
-assbot-	You voiced vorandrew for 30 minutes.	[01:35]
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cazalla	mircea_popescu, finger is better this week http://www.bitcoinprivilege.com/cazalla_forum_posts.html	[01:36]
assbot	Forum Posts	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	cazalla cool!	[01:40]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 374.61, Best ask: 376.5, Bid-ask spread: 1.89000, Last trade: 376.76, 24 hour volume: 15460.02453696, 24 hour low: 368.9, 24 hour high: 403.99, 24 hour vwap: 385.307446208	[01:44]
mircea_popescu	;;gettrust vorandrew	[01:46]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user vorandrew: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=vorandrew \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=vorandrew \| Rated since: never	[01:46]
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bounce	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/28/tim_berners_lee_wants_a_uk_digital_bill_of_rights/ <- didn't the same guy OK inclusion of DRM in HTML5?	[01:57]
assbot	Spies, avert eyes! Tim Berners-Lee demands a UK digital bill of rights The Register	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	bounce what's that mean, "inclusion of drm" ?	[01:59]
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bounce	apparently, this spec: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html	[02:04]
assbot	Encrypted Media Extensions	[02:04]
nubbins`	EMEgerd	[02:05]
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nubbins`	any of you sapiens using openbazaar?	[02:05]
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bounce	not me. should be?	[02:07]
*	nubbins` shrugs	[02:07]
nubbins`	maybe :)	[02:07]
nubbins`	just looking for other nodes to connect to, i don't think it's particularly useful yet	[02:07]
ben_vulpes	ms touranski	[02:07]
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nubbins`	i don't have that font	[02:10]
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ben_vulpes	;;gettrust JuliaTourianski	[02:11]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user JuliaTourianski: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=JuliaTourianski \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=JuliaTourianski \| Rated since: never	[02:11]
ben_vulpes	;;gettrust JuliaTourianski_	[02:11]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user JuliaTourianski_: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=JuliaTourianski_ \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=JuliaTourianski_ \| Rated since: Mon Sep 22 15:21:03 2014	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	!up vorandrew	[02:15]
-assbot-	You voiced vorandrew for 30 minutes.	[02:15]
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nubbins`	mircea_popescu any wild posters appear yet?	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	hm ?	[02:16]
nubbins`	from ohio	[02:16]
nubbins`	posters being noun, not verb	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	oh. no, nothing so far.	[02:17]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: the vast majority of people who write software cannot also read software << the vast majority of people also know how to eat food, shit shit - but not how to eat other's shit.	[02:18]
asciilifeform	('reading software' generally reduces to the latter)	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	and shit food.	[02:20]
mircea_popescu	merely reading it is half the task. the larger half is - making sense of it.	[02:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: most difficult combination of all.	[02:20]
ben_vulpes	it's hardly reading without understanding.	[02:20]
ben_vulpes	rolling one's eyeballs across text is not reading.	[02:21]
asciilifeform	that would correspond to not only swallowing the shit, but extracting residual energy from it..	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	not so.	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	you see, people read without understanding most of the time,	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	because on one hand they don't know what they don't know ; on the other hand the brain is a mere pattern matching engine, not a logical apparatus ; on the cock hand because they think highly of themselves	[02:21]
asciilifeform	very simple test - if the text is shown to you, then taken away and never returned - can you recreate the useful aspects ?	[02:22]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: sometimes there's value to be delivered in compressing the shit, moving the shit from pile a to pile b, unearthing a miniscule amount of Fe...	[02:22]
mircea_popescu	and so, i would wager that out of one million trilema articles read, maybe fifty led to understanding	[02:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no. not "the useful aspects" the entire exact text, as it is,	[02:22]
mircea_popescu	with a full discussion of the meaning of all divergences.	[02:22]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i'm personally partial to 'exact text', yes	[02:22]
asciilifeform	but people make 'bug eyes' when i suggest it.	[02:23]
mircea_popescu	imagine a guy that "understood jokes" which he verifies by his ability to repeat... the useful aspects.	[02:23]
asciilifeform	lol	[02:23]
mircea_popescu	"so this guy got a pie once"	[02:23]
BingoBoingo	"Someone was at the door, had a name"	[02:25]
mircea_popescu	"someone was stopped at the door"	[02:25]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform whole thing speaks to your "makle smaller computers one can hold in head" in volumes	[02:26]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i did say 'understandable' yes.	[02:27]
asciilifeform	'smaller' is not quite correct here. what we've now is like a fairly small, say, hammer or vice, with a crate full of scrap welded to it at odd angles	[02:28]
asciilifeform	'because every child is special and has something to contribute' or the like.	[02:28]
asciilifeform	so after the removal of the 'special contributors' and the neutralization of their turdage, the output is physically smaller, yes	[02:29]
asciilifeform	but conceptually - same size. or perhaps slightly larger, considering more room on the table.	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	aite. works.	[02:29]
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BingoBoingo	http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/28/secret_service_took_four_days_to_realize_white_house_had_been_shot.html	[02:31]
assbot	Secret Service took four days to realize White House had been shot.	[02:31]
BingoBoingo	"fired his semiautomatic rifle out of his car, Secret Service agents were quick to respond. But they were told to stand down, with superiors saying no shots had actually been fired. Even though agents seemed to know that was clearly not true—a pair of agents said they could smell gunpowder while another had heard debris fall from the Truman balcony—they stayed quiet, apparently out of fear of angering their superiors."	[02:32]
BingoBoingo	^ Kindergarten	[02:32]
bounce	$97k worth of damage from a couple bullet holes? what?	[02:33]
asciilifeform	must've dinged a golden toilet.	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	you don't understand.	[02:33]
asciilifeform	ivory seat scratched.	[02:34]
bounce	in the white house outhouse	[02:34]
asciilifeform	in the guardhouse.	[02:34]
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asciilifeform	speaking of desperados,	[02:41]
asciilifeform	'when Frein participated in a documentary about Vietnam War reenactors, he spoke French during a simulated interrogation, according to an Associated Press interview with the film's director.'	[02:41]
asciilifeform	( http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-eric-frein-survival-skills-20140924-story.html )	[02:42]
assbot	Eric Frein could elude capture for months, expert tracker says - The Morning Call	[02:42]
BingoBoingo	Other interesting update: "Initial reports claimed the officer saw two men trying to break into a business, but later Belmar told reporters the officer approached two men who were standing outside a community center that was closed. And detectives later determined it was actually just one suspect and not two. The suspect quickly fled and “fired multiple rounds at the officer” during the chase. The officer returned fire but the	[02:42]
BingoBoingo	re are no indications that the suspect was hit" << Re: Ferguson Officer "Shot"	[02:42]
BingoBoingo	http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/28/ferguson_officer_shot_in_the_arm.html	[02:43]
assbot	Ferguson officer shot in the arm.	[02:43]
BingoBoingo	http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/crime/2014/09/27/police-officer-shot-ferguson/16369405/	[02:44]
assbot	Suspect wanted for shooting Ferguson officer	[02:44]
BingoBoingo	Will this manhunt look like Frein's?	[02:44]
asciilifeform	'The suspect is described as a black male with deadlocks, 5'11", wearing a dark shirt and dark pants.' << much clue, many leads...	[02:45]
BingoBoingo	Like the paint and spray in Grand Theft Auto, a pair of clippers could make this case insoluable	[02:46]
asciilifeform	'PPL Electric reported that more than 70 customers lost power in the area; state police could not confirm that the outage was caused by wind from the helicopters.' << lol! 'wasp.'	[02:47]
asciilifeform	http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/03/one-man-against-a-whole-planet-eric-frank-russells-wasp << for the impatient	[02:48]
assbot	One man against a whole planet: Eric Frank Russells Wasp \| Tor.com	[02:48]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 209064 @ 0.00075126 = 157.0614 BTC [-] {21}	[03:14]
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mats_cd03	;;bc,stats	[03:59]
gribble	Current Blocks: 322982 \| Current Difficulty: 3.466142592397694E10 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 324575 \| Next Difficulty In: 1593 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 51 minutes, and 21 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 32500379787.8 \| Estimated Percent Change: -6.23473	[03:59]
BingoBoingo	-Diff change?	[03:59]
ben_vulpes	pshaw	[04:01]
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cazalla	what do you think, http://www.bitcoinprivilege.com/about-me/ obvious troll too obvious?	[04:02]
assbot	About Me - Olukayode Tendai Bio	[04:02]
BingoBoingo	lol cazalla	[04:04]
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mats_cd03	terrible.	[04:06]
cazalla	mats_cd03, i bet i can get andreas to retweet	[04:07]
mats_cd03	do it	[04:07]
BingoBoingo	You can try	[04:07]
cazalla	and then swap the content out heh	[04:07]
cazalla	like a cake, it's needs to stay in the oven a bit longer before i serve it to him	[04:09]
cazalla	it even	[04:09]
BingoBoingo	cazalla: Maybe do a piece on how Chuck Tayor would have solved Liberia's Ebola with Dogecoin?	[04:12]
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cazalla	that's an idea, next one i'm writing is "was satoshi a black man?"	[04:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.00074947 = 3.9347 BTC [-]	[04:15]
BingoBoingo	Interesting?	[04:18]
cazalla	pledge dogecoin to ebola-chan	[04:19]
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danielpbarron	cazalla, what's your twitter handle?	[04:31]
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cazalla	i don't have one but i will make one for this soon enough	[04:34]
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cazalla	!up up-me-plz	[04:39]
cazalla	bah, not authenticated	[04:39]
BingoBoingo	!up up-me-plz	[04:40]
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up-me-plz	cazalla: re, bitcoinprivilege.com I cannot wait for the changes due to bitcoin allow the re-introduction of whip & chain slavery...	[04:40]
up-me-plz	sadly, probably not a troll.	[04:41]
thestringpuller	very popescu-esque	[04:46]
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mircea_popescu	cazalla lol what is this ?	[04:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43150 @ 0.00074852 = 32.2986 BTC [-] {3}	[04:47]
cazalla	mircea_popescu, i bought that domain months ago, figured may as well put it to some use	[04:49]
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mircea_popescu	lol glwi.	[04:50]
up-me-plz	;; ud glwi	[04:51]
gribble	Google found nothing.	[04:51]
cazalla	good luck with it	[04:51]
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BingoBoingo	!up notsaks	[05:28]
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asciilifeform	ebolacoin ?	[05:30]
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TheNewDeal	If anyone knows http://bitbet.us/bet/1040/bitcoin-difficulty-to-fall-before-november/#b3 / 1sj8Mc28C3WZUxZbkqqcSFdUHeB7Jufyc please send them my way, looking to broker a bitbet deal with them	[05:34]
assbot	BitBet - Bitcoin difficulty to fall before November :: 1.66 B (15%) on Yes, 9.36 B (85%) on No \| closing in 1 day 21 hours \| weight: 6`826 (100`000 to 1)	[05:34]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00074813 = 3.404 BTC [-] {2}	[05:39]
TheNewDeal	!up sellnow-crashing	[05:39]
*	assbot gives voice to SELLNOW-CRASHING	[05:39]
SELLNOW-CRASHING	guys. sell now. price is crashing	[05:39]
SELLNOW-CRASHING	266 next stop	[05:39]
TheNewDeal	sell to me	[05:40]
SELLNOW-CRASHING	ICBIT buy there	[05:40]
TheNewDeal	!down sellnow-crashing	[05:40]
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ben_vulpes	;;ticker	[05:40]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 381.72, Best ask: 383.26, Bid-ask spread: 1.54000, Last trade: 383.87, 24 hour volume: 17707.37377805, 24 hour low: 368.9, 24 hour high: 402.9, 24 hour vwap: 383.192779615	[05:40]
ben_vulpes	noice	[05:40]
TheNewDeal	coins so cheap they're almost free	[05:40]
ben_vulpes	matters not to me	[05:41]
ben_vulpes	a pauper forever i'll be	[05:42]
asciilifeform	!b 3	[05:42]
assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3W42P6W.txt )	[05:42]
*	ben_vulpes wishes he'd considered the scansion	[05:42]
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ben_vulpes	http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=264 << funny story re apple shit	[05:45]
assbot	#bitcoin-assets bash	[05:45]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: everyone likes to laugh at apple. but there is no obvious alternative to some of their products.	[05:46]
asciilifeform	(other than 'stay in castle, don't use portable electronics at all')	[05:46]
ben_vulpes	an acquaintance of mine was recently derping on his girl's phone, as there was a hilarious loop where her old phone had 16G of stuff and was utterly full, bought a new phone with...16G of storage, connected it to her 'iCloud' account, and watched as the thing immediately filled up and bricked itself	[05:46]
ben_vulpes	DURING the hacker fix process for this (which ultimately entailed deleting the iCloud account in question), my acquaintance and sometime colleague was browsing through the lady's photos to find...	[05:47]
ben_vulpes	pictures of his cat	[05:47]
ben_vulpes	from his nexus 1	[05:47]
ben_vulpes	that had never been mailed anywhere	[05:47]
ben_vulpes	his hypotheses: she'd plugged his phone into her computer at some point and "sure whatevere"'d all his photos onto her computer, and thence to apple	[05:48]
asciilifeform	lol	[05:49]
asciilifeform	know how we like to laugh at our ancestors' hygiene ?	[05:49]
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asciilifeform	well guess what.	[05:49]
asciilifeform	!up Diablo-D3	[05:50]
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asciilifeform	!up Diablo-D3	[05:50]
*	assbot gives voice to Diablo-D3	[05:50]
Diablo-D3	[10:44:37] an acquaintance of mine was recently derping on his girl's phone, as there was a hilarious loop where her old phone had 16G of stuff and was utterly full, bought a new phone with...16G of storage, connected it to her 'iCloud' account, and watched as the thing immediately filled up and bricked itself	[05:50]
Diablo-D3	that sounds wrong	[05:50]
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ben_vulpes	well "immediately" per the local pipe throughput	[05:50]
Diablo-D3	even if you restore a backup from icloud, it doesn't restore your photos into your local photo storage	[05:51]
Diablo-D3	it keeps them in the icloud storage	[05:51]
Diablo-D3	you have to manually go into the photo app and tell it to copy selected photos to local	[05:51]
ben_vulpes	there is also a "sync my data" thinger for new phones.	[05:51]
ben_vulpes	you got upped for this?	[05:52]
Diablo-D3	ben_vulpes: yeah, but iphones are locked down	[05:52]
Diablo-D3	you can only use apple's shit	[05:52]
ben_vulpes	it's apple's thinger.	[05:52]
*	Diablo-D3 just had to rescue someone's fucked up ios8 upgrade on an iphone 5c	[05:52]
Diablo-D3	I went from having 0 experience with iphones to fixing them	[05:52]
Diablo-D3	I want to go back, tbh	[05:52]
Diablo-D3	they're infuriatingly complex	[05:52]
Diablo-D3	as much as I hate android, dear god its so much better	[05:53]
ben_vulpes	> 2 days experience, Diablo-D3's an iOS expert	[05:53]
asciilifeform	if you want a pocket-sized apparatus to read, say, email, you're more or less stuck choosing whether to live in 'singapore' (apple) or 'liberia' ('android')	[05:53]
ben_vulpes	you guys will dig this	[05:53]
Diablo-D3	ben_vulpes: I dunno, it was fucking bullshit	[05:53]
Diablo-D3	what fucked it up is all this icloud shit	[05:53]
Diablo-D3	and the fact you need 4.7gb of free storage on a 5c to upgrade to ios8	[05:54]
ben_vulpes	...	[05:54]
Diablo-D3	and they sold 16gb phones	[05:54]
ben_vulpes	other amazing apple stuff	[05:54]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[05:54]
Diablo-D3	and theres only about 12.3gb of usable storage on said 16gb phone	[05:54]
ben_vulpes	the displays system preference gives one two radio buttons:	[05:54]
Diablo-D3	so you need 1/3rd of your ufcking phone	[05:54]
Diablo-D3	to upgrade	[05:54]
ben_vulpes	"best for displays"	[05:54]
Diablo-D3	to fix THEIR bugs	[05:54]
ben_vulpes	"scaled"	[05:54]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: well, to upgrade without a connected computer, yes	[05:54]
Diablo-D3	ben_vulpes: best for display just selects the correct scaled for retina	[05:54]
ben_vulpes	selecting "scaled" gives you 4 options	[05:54]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3: it downloads a turd, needs space to decompress it	[05:55]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: no, tried through the itunes usb shit too	[05:55]
ben_vulpes	"larger text"	[05:55]
ben_vulpes	jesus Diablo-D3 let a guy tell a story ffs	[05:55]
ben_vulpes	"Best (Retina)"	[05:55]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: and it gets even better	[05:55]
ben_vulpes	an unnamed option (WTF)	[05:55]
ben_vulpes	and "More Space"	[05:55]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: the icloud storage was filled almost completely with an incomplete backup	[05:56]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: because the phone tried to backup to 5gb of storage	[05:56]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: and my neighbor just said icloud was broken and she never used it	[05:56]
Diablo-D3	it was broken because it was full with a backup that ios should have never tried making	[05:56]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: I mean, thats even the bigger fucking problem	[05:56]
Diablo-D3	apple ships phones with icloud backup automatically enabled	[05:56]
Diablo-D3	and only gives you 5gb of space	[05:56]
Diablo-D3	unless you pay for more	[05:57]
Diablo-D3	so, out of the box, your phone is broken	[05:57]
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asciilifeform	lulzies.	[05:57]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: and itunes's UX is so insane that theres no way to backup the photos	[05:57]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: they expect you to use icloud for it independently of the make backup thing in itunes	[05:58]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: so I had to go and fucking copy them out of the DCIM folder on the phone	[05:58]
asciilifeform	yet can you picture a talking head, or newspaper, asking question 'should a new os always use more space?'	[05:58]
Diablo-D3	asciilifeform: so what I did do is	[05:59]
Diablo-D3	convince her to just fucking pay	[05:59]
Diablo-D3	for the $2/mo option	[05:59]
ben_vulpes	there is iPhoto. it copies photos from the i* pretty trivially.	[05:59]
ben_vulpes	no wait	[05:59]
ben_vulpes	just trivially	[05:59]
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Diablo-D3	ben_vulpes: no	[06:00]
Diablo-D3	only if you're on osx	[06:01]
Diablo-D3	said victim was on windows	[06:01]
Diablo-D3	why she has an iphone? no clue	[06:01]
ben_vulpes	don't try to leave the cage.	[06:01]
decimation	imagine if ios/osx/windows had a new release that was smaller than the previous turd	[06:01]
decimation	people would be outraged because "you are stealing our new features"	[06:01]
ben_vulpes	well she's on the right track. have you seen technical incompetents try to use android phones?	[06:02]
ben_vulpes	the android platform does a magical job of implementing software-accelerated phone aging.	[06:02]
ben_vulpes	apple's done a decent job on the software jailing, so the phone operating system doesn't rot quite as quickly as its counterparts, so they're forced to release new "operating systems" that consume ever more resources.	[06:03]
ben_vulpes	on android, the users saw their own feet off.	[06:03]
decimation	ben_vulpes: agreed, my android phone magically rots, even despite my attempts to trim shit	[06:03]
ben_vulpes	the only people happy with androids are those with the budget to replace them every 8 months	[06:03]
ben_vulpes	or the technical savvy to wipe the things, ibid	[06:03]
TomServo	Where are all the phones with hardware keyboards, is what I'd like to know.	[06:04]
ben_vulpes	i was just pining for my n90	[06:04]
decimation	I have hardware keyboard on my android	[06:04]
ben_vulpes	i'd settle for a startac	[06:04]
TomServo	decimation: How old is it?	[06:04]
ben_vulpes	my father sent me out with his startac when i was a wee one, for 'supervision'.	[06:04]
ben_vulpes	i forgot i had any electronics on me, went romping through a fountain, fried a legendarily high quality phone.	[06:05]
ben_vulpes	i cannot atone for all my sins.	[06:05]
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thestringpuller	software accelerated phone aging?	[06:05]
thestringpuller	you mean the phone's hardware can't keep up with the updates?	[06:06]
decimation	it was released in 2012 http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_relay_4g_t699-4914.php	[06:06]
assbot	Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G T699 - Full phone specifications	[06:06]
decimation	upgrade bell rang, didn't answer.	[06:06]
decimation	before this one I actually had a nexus 4 (2013 model) for a month, dropped it from 18 inches and it cracked	[06:08]
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TomServo	decimation: Hey cool thanks, didn't know about that one.	[06:10]
decimation	you can still find them new old stock	[06:11]
ben_vulpes	hilarious haskell dot com:	[06:12]
ben_vulpes	succ 5.1 -> 6.1	[06:12]
ben_vulpes	hilarious emacs dot com:	[06:12]
ben_vulpes	(/ 47 3) -> 15	[06:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25554 @ 0.00074853 = 19.1279 BTC [+] {2}	[06:12]
ben_vulpes	(succ being something along the lines of "next enum, plz")	[06:12]
decimation	ben_vulpes: I downloaded and played with some of the arrayforth devkit stuff	[06:12]
ben_vulpes	;;calc 47 / 3	[06:12]
gribble	15.6666666667	[06:13]
*	BingoBoingo is now known as oglafbot	[06:13]
oglafbot	http://oglaf.com/heel/	[06:13]
assbot	Heel	[06:13]
*	oglafbot is now known as BingoBoingo	[06:13]
ben_vulpes	decimation: and?	[06:13]
decimation	I was sad when I found you couldn't just edit in text, you need to use the 'colorforth' gui tool	[06:13]
mircea_popescu	guyse price is crasheing!!1	[06:13]
ben_vulpes	old news, mircea_popescu	[06:13]
mircea_popescu	no i read it on ircs	[06:14]
ben_vulpes	the sellnow nicks have already paraded through	[06:14]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[06:14]
BingoBoingo	%v	[06:14]
decimation	nevertheless they are neat chips, I might buy a devkit soon	[06:14]
atcbot	[X-BT VWAP] Bid: 198 Ask: 266 Last Price: 198 30d-Vol: 152k 30d-High: 266 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 190	[06:14]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 385.6, vol: 17963.54312387 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 376.956, vol: 5374.38134 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 382.43, vol: 21785.85056788 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 382.731921, vol: 36269.37660000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 390.0, vol: 10.77926916 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 386.7095, vol: 64.05676885 \| Volume-weighted last average: 382.906644702	[06:14]
decimation	idiots are selling btc for cheap	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	know how we like to laugh at our ancestors' hygiene ? << quite this.	[06:14]
mircea_popescu	there's going to be little as amusing as "security practices" of the 2010s freeranged interderp.	[06:15]
mircea_popescu	TomServo> Where are all the phones with hardware keyboards, is what I'd like to know. << africa and my vaults.	[06:16]
decimation	they exist, just not being marketed by sexy	[06:17]
decimation	http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/29/technology/personaltech/glum-sign-for-apple-in-china-smuggled-iphones-go-begging-.html?_r=0	[06:18]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times	[06:18]
mircea_popescu	run 12 instances of curl off a huge file with awk 'NR%12==n only to discover that the fucking thing keeps blocking itself.	[06:18]
mircea_popescu	what the shit obscure bug is this one ;/	[06:18]
decimation	At an electronics market in central Beijing, one retailer was recently selling the low-end iPhone 6 and 6 Plus for 6,500 renminbi to 8,800 renminbi ($1,060 to $1,436), down from 12,000 renminbi to 15,000 renminbi ($1,960 to $2,450) just after the release.	[06:18]
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mircea_popescu	decimation the advantage of owning the factory.	[06:19]
mircea_popescu	work a third shift, make yourself a bunch of ipads too.	[06:19]
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decimation	when everyone wants an ipad that works well, but it appears apple's sexy has worn off a bit	[06:20]
ben_vulpes	they still go for a decent markup in ars	[06:20]
*	assbot removes voice from Diablo-D3	[06:20]
decimation	!up Diablo-D3	[06:22]
*	assbot gives voice to Diablo-D3	[06:22]
Diablo-D3	yay	[06:23]
Diablo-D3	so	[06:23]
Diablo-D3	did someone really class action bfl?	[06:23]
mircea_popescu	a year ago.	[06:23]
Diablo-D3	did it go anywhere?	[06:24]
decimation	lol http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/technology/exposing-hidden-biases-at-google-to-improve-diversity.html << I believe this was predicted here awhile ago	[06:24]
mircea_popescu	not yet.	[06:24]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times	[06:24]
Diablo-D3	because I find it hilarious that people are just NOW realizing	[06:24]
Diablo-D3	that they're a scam	[06:24]
Diablo-D3	evne though I knew it years ago	[06:24]
Diablo-D3	and nuked all the bfl threads	[06:24]
Diablo-D3	and lost my bitcointalk modship over it	[06:24]
Diablo-D3	because apparently bfl was a smart enough scammer to "donate" a lot of money to bitcointalk	[06:25]
Diablo-D3	lololol	[06:25]
Diablo-D3	in the end, I am right	[06:25]
Diablo-D3	I am always right	[06:25]
Diablo-D3	it is a universal constant	[06:25]
mircea_popescu	!down Diablo-D3	[06:25]
*	assbot removes voice from Diablo-D3	[06:25]
mircea_popescu	eh shuttup	[06:25]
asciilifeform	Diablo-D3 was on dope...?	[06:26]
mircea_popescu	he has his moments.	[06:26]
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decimation	it will be depressing to watch google slowly merge into usg	[06:28]
asciilifeform	slowly? lol	[06:28]
mircea_popescu	why depressing ?	[06:29]
decimation	it rings the bell labeled "no escape" for all to hear in us-land	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	http://www.bitcoinprivilege.com/cazalla_forum_posts.html << gotta commend cazalla for his honesty lol.	[06:29]
assbot	Forum Posts	[06:29]
asciilifeform	as if it is possible to have independent existence from usg while being 'the #1 xxx' in u.s. media organs ever.	[06:29]
asciilifeform	no escape << what evidence they ever tried to 'escape'	[06:30]
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decimation	none	[06:30]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform incidentally, ever seen the lives of others ?	[06:30]
asciilifeform	nope	[06:30]
mircea_popescu	a, maybe worth sometime.	[06:30]
decimation	in fact the evidence we have is that they have tried to merge with usg since it became thinkable	[06:31]
*	asciilifeform puts on list	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	very good rendition of east berlin life and times.	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	mid 80	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	s	[06:31]
asciilifeform	east berlin mid 80s << aha, where i live now but with better people.	[06:31]
asciilifeform	when this kind of thing comes up, for some reason all i can think of is a fellow who worked in a lab across the hall from my old place of work - who fessed up to playing 'call of duty: iraq' while... in iraq	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	it's gets enough very subtle things exactly right for me to call it an passible teaching substitute for actual experience	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	also check out what butchery i made of english in that phrase!	[06:32]
decimation	asciilifeform: lol	[06:32]
decimation	he was probably in some air conditioned bunker "in the field"	[06:33]
asciilifeform	likely.	[06:37]
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decimation	asciilifeform: have you taken the CADR verilog design published by Mr. Parker and run them on your own chip?	[07:00]
asciilifeform	decimation: nope.	[07:01]
asciilifeform	decimation: i'm not really enamored of the cadr as such	[07:02]
decimation	no but it would be an interesting exercise in archaeology	[07:02]
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asciilifeform	decimation: others have, if i recall, carried out this exercise. it isn't considerably more interesting than running the emulator.	[07:03]
decimation	yeah good point. I'm gonna work on getting my 'opengenera' vm working again	[07:03]
asciilifeform	decimation: opengenera vm << goes great with a set of these: http://imgur.com/nR6mErg	[07:11]
assbot	talmud - Imgur	[07:11]
asciilifeform	(ignore blue backbreaker, that's 'xerox')	[07:12]
asciilifeform	and yes, technically these are all hypertext-accessible (yes, possibly first instance of hypertext used industrially) in og. but paper is nice.	[07:12]
asciilifeform	i should like to find a buyer for these. before it's too late (and then i ask them to be brought to my peine forte et dure.)	[07:13]
decimation	asciilifeform: lol. Yeah when I saw demos of genera, I thought "wait, did they invent hypertext too"?	[07:14]
asciilifeform	hard to say who invented. but who used to greatest effect, earliest - yes, them.	[07:15]
decimation	it seems like it is a hell of alot better than the shit berners-lee put out	[07:15]
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thestringpuller	asciilifeform: to you have a sister named deedee?	[07:41]
thestringpuller	did Diablo-D3 ever get around to making that 1mn dollar company that would be the end all to mining datacenters?	[07:43]
ben_vulpes	!up Diablo-D3	[07:45]
*	assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes	[07:46]
ben_vulpes	!up Diablo-D3	[07:46]
*	assbot gives voice to Diablo-D3	[07:46]
Diablo-D3	thestringpuller: no	[07:47]
Diablo-D3	I refunded investors and pulled out	[07:47]
thestringpuller	hehe that's what she said	[07:47]
thestringpuller	well i guess that's what he said?	[07:47]
Diablo-D3	heh.	[07:47]
Diablo-D3	but yeah, the whole DMC thing was hilarious	[07:47]
Diablo-D3	people keep calling me scam over it	[07:47]
Diablo-D3	yet it paid out more than was originally invested	[07:48]
ben_vulpes	;;gettrust Diablo-D3	[07:48]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user Diablo-D3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=Diablo-D3 \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Diablo-D3 \| Rated since: Mon Apr 25 13:54:20 2011	[07:48]
ben_vulpes	this is true?	[07:48]
dub	sure, just not to the people who bought at IPO	[07:49]
Diablo-D3	dub: actually a lot of them stuck until the end and got their money back	[07:49]
ben_vulpes	lol @ Luke-Jr's rating	[07:49]
Diablo-D3	the only people who "lost" were those who idiotically paniced	[07:49]
ben_vulpes	-1 "i dunno"	[07:49]
Diablo-D3	ben_vulpes: yeah, luke-jr is a scam	[07:49]
dub	I doubt that but it should have been a whorthwhile lesson	[07:49]
Diablo-D3	ben_vulpes: its why I dont care about wot, its not policed	[07:50]
dub	whorethwhile?	[07:50]
ben_vulpes	it's adequately policed	[07:50]
dub	anyway, you can't put a price on education, Diablo-D3 is no scammer	[07:50]
Diablo-D3	dub: yes, whorethwhile	[07:50]
ben_vulpes	i know danielpbarron vaguely, i know Luke-Jr vaguely, i know how to weight their ratings	[07:50]
ben_vulpes	dag - you have a 5 from nanotube?	[07:50]
*	assbot gives voice to Luke-Jr	[07:51]
Luke-Jr	Diablo-D3: no, you're a troll	[07:51]
Diablo-D3	lol	[07:51]
dub	a surprising retort	[07:51]
Diablo-D3	Luke-Jr: yes, Im a troll that wrote a very important piece of software that a lot of people donated a lot of money to help make happen	[07:51]
Diablo-D3	Luke-Jr: now only if you could do that.	[07:51]
ben_vulpes	aaaaah dig nanotube's rating of magicaltux	[07:51]
Luke-Jr	Diablo-D3: lol, so important that nobody uses it	[07:51]
Diablo-D3	not anymore they dont	[07:51]
Diablo-D3	mining at home is dead	[07:52]
Diablo-D3	no profit in it, even if you own asics	[07:52]
dub	they all use the software you plagiarised now Luke-Jr	[07:52]
Luke-Jr	dub: you mean "maintain"	[07:52]
Luke-Jr	dub: I have always given full credit to all authors and contributors of BFGMiner	[07:53]
thestringpuller	nanotube needs to update his ratings	[07:53]
Diablo-D3	lol "maintain"	[07:53]
Diablo-D3	cgminer = C port of diablominer	[07:53]
dub	thestringpuller: this is actually why the wot is broken	[07:53]
Luke-Jr	Diablo-D3: you wish	[07:53]
Luke-Jr	dub: it's not broken, it works well	[07:53]
thestringpuller	nanotube is also a ghost	[07:53]
Diablo-D3	bfgminer = cgminer fork that luke-jr did because ck wouldnt merge his shit patches	[07:53]
Diablo-D3	ergo	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	;;gettrust assbot Luke-Jr	[07:54]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask Luke-Jr!~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Luke-Jr: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Luke-Jr \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Luke-Jr \| Rated since: Sat Feb 5 12:37:04 2011	[07:54]
Luke-Jr	BFGMiner = cgminer-the-GPU-miner + FPGA and ASIC support	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	;;gettrust assbot Diablo-D3	[07:54]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Diablo-D3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Diablo-D3 \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Diablo-D3 \| Rated since: Mon Apr 25 13:54:20 2011	[07:54]
Diablo-D3	Luke-Jr: except ck added fpga and asic support himself	[07:54]
Luke-Jr	cgminer = BFGMiner fork because ck wanted free hardware for doing nothing	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	;;seen joecool	[07:54]
gribble	joecool was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 14 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 46 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: do you really have to ask	[07:54]
Luke-Jr	Diablo-D3: liar	[07:54]
Diablo-D3	free hardware fo rdoing nothing? nope	[07:54]
Diablo-D3	he wanted the hardware on hand to actually test changes	[07:54]
Diablo-D3	and guess what? he got the hardware in the end.	[07:55]
Diablo-D3	Luke-Jr: you forget, I actually know ck, you dont	[07:55]
Luke-Jr	Diablo-D3: guess what? he successfully trolled. doesn't make it any less of a troll.	[07:55]
Diablo-D3	lol Luke-Jr is so goddamned butthurt	[07:55]
Luke-Jr	anyone who knows ck knows he's a pain	[07:55]
ben_vulpes	so what if troll? so what if pain?	[07:55]
Luke-Jr	ck has a very large reputation for being a difficult person to work with	[07:56]
ben_vulpes	surely the commit history shows ck's contribution or lack thereof.	[07:56]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: yep	[07:56]
Diablo-D3	oh bullshit	[07:56]
Diablo-D3	ck just doesnt take shit from people	[07:56]
Diablo-D3	if he was hard to work with, I wouldnt have been friends with him for the last decade	[07:56]
Luke-Jr	Diablo-D3: that's why he hasn't had kernel patches accepted since forever, eh	[07:57]
Diablo-D3	Luke-Jr: he hasnt?	[07:57]
Luke-Jr	concepts, yes, but only after someone else has to go basically rewrite them	[07:57]
Luke-Jr	Diablo-D3: nope, even I have more recent Linux commits	[07:57]
Diablo-D3	Luke-Jr: -ck is out for 3.16 or whatever the newest kernel is	[07:57]
Luke-Jr	-ck is not Linux itself	[07:57]
Luke-Jr	it's a fork	[07:58]
Luke-Jr	like cgminer	[07:58]
Diablo-D3	its not a fork you idiot	[07:58]
Diablo-D3	its a patchset.	[07:58]
Luke-Jr	that's another word for fork	[07:58]
Diablo-D3	its bfs plus a few other patches	[07:58]
Diablo-D3	Luke-Jr: no, it requires the linux source	[07:58]
*	paxtoncamaro91 (~paxtoncam@unaffiliated/paxtoncamaro91) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:58]
Diablo-D3	you have to apply the patch	[07:58]
Luke-Jr	irrelevant	[07:58]
Luke-Jr	that's just a technical way of distributing code	[07:58]
Diablo-D3	can someone ban Luke-Jr?	[07:58]
Diablo-D3	the signal to noise ratio in this channel went to shit when he came in	[07:59]
ben_vulpes	needs one more negrate	[07:59]
Luke-Jr	all a git repo is, is a patch set	[07:59]
ben_vulpes	its a fascinating slapfight i gotta say	[07:59]
Diablo-D3	ben_vulpes: not much of a slapfight when I have written code, and so has ck, and Luke-Jr hasnt actually done anything.	[08:00]
ben_vulpes	eh, link me	[08:00]
Luke-Jr	Diablo-D3: you're simply a liar, nothing more	[08:00]
Luke-Jr	if anyone should be banned, it's you	[08:00]
Diablo-D3	Luke-Jr: I have seen your "code"	[08:00]
Diablo-D3	it is lol.	[08:00]
Diablo-D3	theres a reason why ck denied some of your patches	[08:00]
Luke-Jr	Diablo-D3: you are lol	[08:00]
*	assbot gives voice to nanotube	[08:00]
ben_vulpes	until i see commits (ideally signed, but i don't think people were into that sort of thing back then) it's all hot air as far as i can tell	[08:01]
*	Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[08:01]
ben_vulpes	hola nanotube	[08:01]
*	nanotube haunts thestringpuller ooooOOOOO	[08:01]
Diablo-D3	ben_vulpes: diablominer is on github	[08:01]
Diablo-D3	hey nanotube	[08:01]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: signing commits is considered bad practice, actually	[08:01]
nanotube	howdy folks :)	[08:01]
ben_vulpes	Luke-Jr: oh and do explain why	[08:01]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: plenty on https://github.com/luke-jr/bfgminer	[08:01]
assbot	luke-jr/bfgminer GitHub	[08:01]
ben_vulpes	Luke-Jr: lol i ain't digging through y'all's shitpile	[08:02]
ben_vulpes	link me to introducing commits tho and i'll start to care	[08:02]
xanthyos	someone i know on tinychat is trying to dump btc to me at spot. i hope i don't come out looking like a fool. that's more of a worry than the money loss at this point: appearing like a fool in the short term to a bunch of druggies and cam whores	[08:02]
xanthyos	i can't NOT buy though	[08:02]
ben_vulpes	yeah you can	[08:02]
ben_vulpes	just don't	[08:02]
nanotube	xanthyos: why not ask for a discount to spot	[08:02]
ben_vulpes	20% is what - 80 bucks per right now?	[08:03]
xanthyos	i'll definitely round it in my favor	[08:03]
thestringpuller	oh wow nanotube speaks!	[08:04]
thestringpuller	you still feel the same about MagicalTux? ;)	[08:05]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: I can't find it now, but the Linux kernel used to have a writeup why commits shouldn't be PGP signed	[08:06]
mircea_popescu	did Diablo-D3 ever get around to making that 1mn dollar company << 1 mn BITCOIN. get it straight.,	[08:06]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: IIRC it was related to signing implying you have audited the complete state of the code, not just the diff	[08:06]
ben_vulpes	well that's a load of malarkey.	[08:06]
ben_vulpes	the other arguments i've heard is a) weakens "importance" of signatures and b) leaks keys	[08:07]
ben_vulpes	a) lol	[08:07]
Luke-Jr	probably also because git maintainers like to rebase commits regularly	[08:07]
ben_vulpes	b) don't sign too often.	[08:07]
ben_vulpes	well then the sig goes bad and tough luck.	[08:07]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: i don't know my history very well even though i lived it	[08:07]
thestringpuller	ewww rebase commits	[08:07]
thestringpuller	good way to lose your history	[08:08]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: also, the sig can't prove who wrote the code anyway	[08:08]
ben_vulpes	da	[08:08]
ben_vulpes	fuq	[08:08]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: it would be trivial for Con to take my commits and reauthor them with his own signature, for example	[08:08]
Luke-Jr	(although I doubt he'd go that far)	[08:08]
BingoBoingo	thestringpuller: nano just updated a few ratings	[08:08]
Luke-Jr	thestringpuller: yeah, I'm not a big fan of rebasing, but that's how the git culture works :/	[08:09]
mircea_popescu	aaaaah dig nanotube's rating of magicaltux << i don't think he ever revisits them or anytrhing	[08:09]
ben_vulpes	wouldn't really pass an inspection tbh	[08:09]
Luke-Jr	nanotube: wow, your new rating for Mark is harsh! :o	[08:09]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller: this is actually why the wot is broken << nah. if you know who people are you know what to discount. if you don't know, you can't use their ratings anyway.	[08:09]
BingoBoingo	nanotube ratings watch http://dpaste.com/05T9JSY	[08:10]
assbot	dpaste: 05T9JSY	[08:10]
Luke-Jr	nanotube: the news last I checked said the police don't buy the conspiracy theories	[08:10]
*	Quanttek (~quassel@ip1f1331f3.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:10]
ben_vulpes	police? what is this.	[08:11]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: you know, the people investigating the MtGox incident	[08:11]
mircea_popescu	well this banstuff has been an amusing read.	[08:11]
Luke-Jr	who actually have access to information	[08:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20631 @ 0.00074823 = 15.4367 BTC [-] {3}	[08:11]
Luke-Jr	unlike me or most people	[08:11]
ben_vulpes	yes, the entirely honest and upright japanese police.	[08:11]
mircea_popescu	Luke-Jr you read some conspiracy theories about what the police is buying ?	[08:12]
Luke-Jr	mircea_popescu: conspiracy theories being people saying Mark did it, with no evidence	[08:12]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes: signing commits is considered bad practice, actually << by idiots.	[08:12]
Luke-Jr	police don't seem to believe that, and they have actual access to information	[08:12]
Luke-Jr	mircea_popescu: the Linux maintainers are idiots?	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	xanthyos> appearing like a fool in the short term to a bunch of druggies and cam whores << maybe you need a new reddit ?	[08:13]
Luke-Jr	lol	[08:13]
BingoBoingo	Luke-Jr> police don't seem to believe that, and they have actual access to information << How long did the Feds take on BFL?	[08:13]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: the Linux maintainers are idiots? << a large number of them. do we not hear of linus routinely reaming people for idiocy?	[08:13]
Luke-Jr	BingoBoingo: wat?	[08:13]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: that's a point. XD	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[08:14]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 379.9, Best ask: 379.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 379.99, 24 hour volume: 18630.84954422, 24 hour low: 368.9, 24 hour high: 401.41, 24 hour vwap: 382.91805711	[08:14]
ben_vulpes	;;rate luke-jr -1 tard, fud: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-09-2014#849440	[08:14]
assbot	Logged on 29-09-2014 04:59:01; Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: signing commits is considered bad practice, actually	[08:14]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user luke-jr has been recorded.	[08:14]
BingoBoingo	Luke-Jr: Well, BFL has only very recently been shutdown and taken into recievership for merely doing what they've been doing for their entire run.	[08:14]
ben_vulpes	!down Luke-Jr	[08:14]
nanotube	Luke-Jr: not implying culpability, simply that i wouldn't trade with him given all the stuff hanging over his head	[08:14]
mircea_popescu	Luke-Jr> police don't seem to believe that, and they have actual access to information << How long did the Feds take on BFL? << the notion that "the police" has "the information" is such lmao.	[08:14]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: what I said is true, even if you disagree with it	[08:14]
ben_vulpes	well, you've got fifteen minutes, Luke-Jr. make the best of 'em.	[08:14]
mircea_popescu	they've got what they finally managed to read on trilema, basically.	[08:14]
Luke-Jr	BingoBoingo: did the feds at some point say BFL was legit?	[08:15]
Luke-Jr	nanotube: ah, makes sense	[08:15]
mircea_popescu	;;gettrust assbot Luke-Jr	[08:15]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask Luke-Jr!~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Luke-Jr: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Luke-Jr \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Luke-Jr \| Rated since: Sat Feb 5 12:37:04 2011	[08:15]
mircea_popescu	;;gettrust assbot Diablo-D3	[08:15]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Diablo-D3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Diablo-D3 \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Diablo-D3 \| Rated since: Mon Apr 25 13:54:20 2011	[08:15]
ben_vulpes	Luke-Jr: your assertion of such doth not proof make.	[08:15]
BingoBoingo	Luke-Jr: Never, one judge commented that there wasn't enough in front of him at the time to revoke Sonny's parole, far from an endorsement	[08:15]
Luke-Jr	nanotube: btw, any idea why b-otc.com is broken?	[08:15]
Luke-Jr	BingoBoingo: my point exactly	[08:16]
Luke-Jr	BingoBoingo: Japanese police have stated they don't think Mark is involved in the crime	[08:16]
ben_vulpes	he was still at the helm.	[08:16]
mircea_popescu	no they didn't lol.	[08:16]
nanotube	Luke-Jr: seems to work for me, just checked.	[08:16]
Luke-Jr	ben_vulpes: yes, he screwed up big time	[08:16]
ben_vulpes	it happened on his watch.	[08:16]
Luke-Jr	nanotube: weird :/	[08:16]
*	assbot removes voice from Diablo-D3	[08:16]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck dorkhead do you have to be to believe sssomething like that. "o the police said this guy isn't involved". how'd they know and why'd they say that.	[08:16]
ben_vulpes	!up Diablo-D3	[08:17]
*	assbot gives voice to Diablo-D3	[08:17]
Luke-Jr	mircea_popescu: they're investigating the theft	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	right.	[08:17]
Luke-Jr	and have access to information we don't	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	no, they don't.	[08:17]
Luke-Jr	nanotube: try over IPv6?	[08:17]
BingoBoingo	No reason police aren't for sale like anyone else.	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	but that aside : that's the definition of "investigating" : they dion;t know who did what	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	and who's not involved.	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	just because the idiots you normally shill at can't read japanese doesn't mean you actually get to propose nonsense in here as fact.	[08:17]
Luke-Jr	I don't shill.	[08:18]
Luke-Jr	mircea_popescu: too bad, I don't save every news article I read.	[08:19]
mircea_popescu	right.	[08:19]
mircea_popescu	because "news articles" are a source now.	[08:19]
ben_vulpes	Luke-Jr: amusingly, you can't even find them when the time comes.	[08:19]
*	assbot gives voice to Dimsler	[08:20]
ben_vulpes	not that any of them are written by a key i know anyways.	[08:20]
Luke-Jr	mircea_popescu: "news articles" was the topic	[08:20]
Dimsler	Luke-Jr, wtf are you talking about	[08:20]
mircea_popescu	but the very notion that "the police"'d have some sort of priviledged access to information...	[08:20]
mircea_popescu	holy shit, that takes the cake.	[08:20]
Luke-Jr	Dimsler: ?	[08:20]
Dimsler	i know	[08:20]
nanotube	mircea_popescu: they /should/ have the entire gox database, unlike the general public.	[08:21]
Luke-Jr	mircea_popescu: they do	[08:21]
mircea_popescu		[08:21]
mircea_popescu	nanotube you mean that thing that was stolen off their servers 5x ?	[08:21]
mircea_popescu	yeah, im sure they do o.o	[08:21]
Dimsler	mircea_popescu, maybe they have access to the "secret" server	[08:21]
*	Quanttek has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[08:21]
mircea_popescu	yeah, right.	[08:21]
mircea_popescu	maybe they have access to their own behinds.	[08:21]
Luke-Jr	mircea_popescu: it's pretty obvious MagicalTux isn't allowed to publicly say a lot of stuff	[08:21]
mircea_popescu	seems unlikely, giving what we know of public servants, but why not hoep.	[08:21]
Luke-Jr	that stuff, the police have access to	[08:21]
*	wywialm (~wywialm@87.204.243.194) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:22]
*	wywialm has quit (Changing host)	[08:22]
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nanotube	mircea_popescu: sure, except it wasn't the entire thing? it was a particular date range, plus as i recall not all transactions?	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	yeah because co-conspirator testimony is like the be all end all of truthsources.	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	nanotube now how would one know this ?	[08:22]
nanotube	i distinctly recall it didn't have some of my earliest transactions :P	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	which one of the leaked versions of which particular breach ?	[08:23]
nanotube	also, were there usd input/outputs? or just btc?	[08:23]
nanotube	haha i don't even know :P	[08:23]
mircea_popescu	i rest.	[08:23]
mircea_popescu	let's talk of something else, this can't not end up retarded.	[08:23]
nanotube	hehe me too! sleep time :)	[08:23]
Luke-Jr	XD	[08:23]
*	Luke-Jr goes back to code	[08:24]
mircea_popescu	don't forget to sign it.	[08:24]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, it occurs to me, the ba deeds registrar thing will be a not-so-bad way to distribute source.	[08:24]
mircea_popescu	speaking of which,	[08:24]
mircea_popescu	;;seen molokodesk	[08:25]
gribble	molokodesk was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 13 hours, 43 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: yeah, there's a pending item stuck in the queue because it missed (probably) it's block.	[08:25]
RagnarDanneskjol	hes working on it hastily	[08:25]
mircea_popescu	aite	[08:25]
ben_vulpes	that's a poor way to work on things	[08:25]
RagnarDanneskjol	i kno	[08:25]
mircea_popescu	guy had a month, ended up cramming most of it after the 20th or something ?	[08:25]
ben_vulpes	let's see if this works yet	[08:25]
mircea_popescu	gotta work hygienically yo!	[08:26]
ben_vulpes	!down Luke-Jr	[08:26]
mircea_popescu	!down ben_vulpes	[08:26]
-assbot-	mircea_popescu, you can't do that to ben_vulpes.	[08:26]
mircea_popescu	oddly, you're reg'd	[08:26]
ben_vulpes	;;gettrust assbot ben_vulpes	[08:26]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask ben_vulpes!~user@unaffiliated/benkay. Trust relationship from user assbot to user ben_vulpes: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 12 via 12 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=ben_vulpes \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ben_vulpes \| Rated since: Sun Mar 10 13:57:45 2013	[08:26]
ben_vulpes	odd how?	[08:26]
mircea_popescu	well if you're reg'd why doesn't the down take	[08:26]
ben_vulpes	kakobrekla ?	[08:27]
ben_vulpes	caching somewhere.	[08:27]
[]bot	Bet created: "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $80 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1052/	[08:27]
ben_vulpes	(just a guess)	[08:28]
[]bot	Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $80 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1052/ Odds: 100(Y):0(N) by coin, 100(Y):0(N) by weight. Total bet: 1 BTC. Current weight: 99,996.	[08:29]
ben_vulpes	for the record, signing not your own commits is anathema and will eventually be outed.	[08:29]
ben_vulpes	a signed tag is a different thing.	[08:30]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes eh ?	[08:30]
RagnarDanneskjol	explain signed tag pls	[08:30]
mircea_popescu	why, if you've read it ?	[08:30]
ben_vulpes	RagnarDanneskjol: you're familiar with tagging in git?	[08:30]
RagnarDanneskjol	sure	[08:30]
RagnarDanneskjol	why bettr or different	[08:31]
asciilifeform	why commits shouldn't be PGP signed... leaks keys << sorta like the idea that one shouldn't blow nose - leaks brains. yes, given some misconfigurations of the body - this can actually happen.	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	lol	[08:31]
ben_vulpes	a commit is "i did this code"	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	splendid analogy	[08:31]
ben_vulpes	a tag is "this release bears my stamp"	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes can i commit code my slavegirl wrote on her offline abacus ?	[08:32]
RagnarDanneskjol	OH yea	[08:32]
ben_vulpes	tux might nota been a party to the crime, but it happened under his watch.	[08:32]
ben_vulpes	you can do anything you want	[08:32]
ben_vulpes	how your wot handles it is unresolved	[08:32]
mircea_popescu	so then if i sign a commit you made, what's the problem ?	[08:32]
ben_vulpes	why not encrypt messages to bitcoin private keys? it works, what's the problem?	[08:33]
mircea_popescu	can you stick to arguing your idea instead of arguing around ?	[08:33]
ben_vulpes	i'll try.	[08:34]
ben_vulpes	the commit is "here is a diff of thing before i started work today, and thing after i finished this feature." it may include tests, changes to other miscellaneous stuff. it should exist (in my opinion, i may be wrong and might need to be argued out of this) as a statement that "i did this work". this clearly gets hazy when you've got multiple eyes on a screen.	[08:35]
ben_vulpes	and multiple people providing input into what precisely should be done. however, the buck must stop with the signer of the commit.	[08:36]
thestringpuller	diff of commit hash in blockchain?	[08:36]
ben_vulpes	also i don't really know that git affords for you signing my hash and including it in the repository, from a technical perspective.	[08:36]
ben_vulpes	er, commit.	[08:37]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes but see, if what you mean to say is "signing actual commits may be taking on more responsibility than you realise", why say "anathema" ?	[08:37]
mircea_popescu	as far as i can see, all signatories of a thing are joint and several responsible for it.	[08:37]
ben_vulpes	that's why the signatory of the commit can only be held responsible for changes introduced in that commit.	[08:37]
mircea_popescu	if that's what you're trying to do, it's not anathema, it's the right thing. if it's not what you're trying to do it's still not anathema, just, you're misguidedly using the tools	[08:38]
ben_vulpes	sure, i made a change to openssl, and i stand behind it. that should not be taken to be an endorsement of the project.	[08:38]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes basically the practica application would be, once X bug is found, grep for the code and whenever you find it in something someone signed, tear them a new one.	[08:38]
ben_vulpes	what would it mean for it to be in something that someone signed?	[08:38]
ben_vulpes	that's the importance of signing the diff.	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	well up to the signer what he signs.	[08:39]
ben_vulpes	that's why the commit is the right thing for a contributor to sign.	[08:39]
ben_vulpes	"i changed these things, and i take responsibility for the content of the change."	[08:39]
ben_vulpes	now if you strip whitespace on a line that later turns out to have a mission-critical hole...	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	sure, if that's what he means that's what he should do.	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	mno.	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	fuck you, don't dick around with lines you don't udnerstand.	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	"all i did was the space guise" psshhhh	[08:40]
ben_vulpes	d'accord.	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	the entire point of the exercise is to make people fucking affraid to write code.	[08:41]
asciilifeform	^	[08:41]
ben_vulpes	now in the tag, you include a message: "this signed tag is my stamp upon the whole and entirety of the codebase".	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	that' the only way they'll stop long enough to read something.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes that's nonsense. what's this, a badly specified bitbet bet ?	[08:41]
ben_vulpes	or, "this signed tag is my stamp on lines xx-yy in file thus.hs"	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	no dude, you include what you sign between --begin and end	[08:41]
ben_vulpes	i'm demonstrating the range of what's possible, not what i'd do.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	no signature-by-reference. now THAT'	[08:42]
mircea_popescu	s anathema.	[08:42]
ben_vulpes	and you probably want to hash the lines and sign the hash to boot.	[08:42]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2014#794835 << example of responsibility	[08:42]
assbot	Logged on 13-08-2014 20:08:25; asciilifeform: one calls out recipe steps; one actually tightens the bolt, whatever; one - verifies. then they all sign.	[08:42]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: right.	[08:42]
ben_vulpes	what is anathema in the previous context mircea_popescu is taking someone else's commits, signing them and claiming them as your own.	[08:43]
ben_vulpes	if i find commits like that without a "copied without permission from XXX" -- that's a demerit.	[08:43]
asciilifeform	(example not necessarily applicable to given domain, but specifically of folks taking actual responsibility for their actions)	[08:43]
asciilifeform	as for this entire thread - being pessimist, imho any software project which appears to call for this level of organizational complexity - is a lost cause.	[08:44]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: you could only make people terrified in this system if everyone was required to sign commits no?	[08:44]
asciilifeform	and yes, that means, e.g., linux kernel.	[08:45]
*	asciilifeform back to sleep	[08:46]
ben_vulpes	in 20 years, a bitcoin implementation may be software people's "masterpiece" work - eg the piece of work that grants one the title of "master" in the field.	[08:46]
*	assbot removes voice from Diablo-D3	[08:47]
ben_vulpes	if i see this day i will be a happy man.	[08:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5390 @ 0.00075234 = 4.0551 BTC [+]	[08:56]
thestringpuller	isn't linux kind of that to operating systems?	[08:56]
thestringpuller	^ ben_vulpes	[08:56]
mircea_popescu	what is anathema in the previous context mircea_popescu is taking someone else's commits, signing them and claiming them as your own. << why ?	[08:57]
mircea_popescu	there's no permission to be had or sought. this is free software.	[08:58]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller no. girls aren't required to fuck anyone and yet they're well terrified of not doing a good job in bed.	[08:58]
Dimsler	what about rape	[09:00]
mircea_popescu	what abou it ?	[09:05]
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thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: what if someone doesn't sign "heartbleed introduction" then no one is accountable and system is moot	[09:23]
mircea_popescu	don't use it if you don't like how it's signed.	[09:23]
thestringpuller	but this means software that is signed everywhere has more accountability than software that doesn't	[09:24]
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mircea_popescu	right	[09:27]
mircea_popescu	;;isitdown bitbet.us	[09:31]
gribble	bitbet.us is up	[09:31]
mircea_popescu	da fuck.	[09:31]
thestringpuller	up for me?	[09:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00074955 = 12.6674 BTC [-]	[10:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00074928 = 10.9395 BTC [-]	[10:11]
[]bot	Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Bitcoin to drop under $350 before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1034/ Odds: 44(Y):56(N) by coin, 40(Y):60(N) by weight. Total bet: 42.66946193 BTC. Current weight: 28,540.	[10:30]
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RagnarDanneskjol	are there any time-bending' methods for proving a doc [notarized electronically*] is not added[forged] to db AFTER some point in time? like a 'carbondated' irrefutable binary marker [or tensor more like]. for instance, unique single use keypair for each new calendar day thats signed by [or a hash of] some other newly generated 'time-dependent' keypair + 'something else'[ie classified new	[10:56]
RagnarDanneskjol	sapr ad but more easily recoverable]. we'll presume the date record of keys published is unreliable/unavail/innacurate [including classifieds which could fall into all 3 categories] and placing aside the single use pair being vulnerable to forger obtaining historical key pairs in advance.	[10:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16650 @ 0.00074918 = 12.4738 BTC [-]	[10:56]
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mircea_popescu	RagnarDanneskjol well how are you going to put the hash in a block retroactively ?	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, this discussion can continue tomorrow, i'm off.	[11:13]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[19:15]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[19:15]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[19:15]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[19:15]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[19:17]
-assbot-	You are now voiced in #bitcoin-assets.	[19:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48300 @ 0.00074597 = 36.0304 BTC [-] {4}	[19:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00074764 = 6.6914 BTC [+]	[19:36]
ben_vulpes	http://online.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-protests-swell-as-riot-police-withdraw-1411979074?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories << contrast w/ "occupy"	[19:41]
assbot	Hong Kong Protests Swell as Riot Police Withdraw - WSJ	[19:41]
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mircea_popescu	;;rated PeterL	[19:44]
gribble	You have not yet rated user PeterL	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	;;rate PeterL 1 Guy fucked up his glbse assets 3 years ago. This is a fact. That fact may be explained as a smart guy failing in a soup of idiots, and the optimist in me is inclined towards it.	[19:46]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user PeterL has been recorded.	[19:46]
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mircea_popescu	!up justusranvier	[20:03]
-assbot-	You voiced justusranvier for 30 minutes.	[20:03]
*	assbot gives voice to justusranvier	[20:03]
*	assbot gives voice to justusranvier	[20:04]
justusranvier	morning	[20:04]
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mircea_popescu	how goes ?	[20:05]
chetty	http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/170977/gov%E2%80%99t-works-on-criminal-law-reform-to-fight-%E2%80%98blue%E2%80%99-dollar-	[20:06]
assbot	Govt works on criminal law reform to fight blue dollar - BuenosAiresHerald.com	[20:06]
ThickAsThieves	lol now Intuit gave the 1yr dev subscription...	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	huh ?	[20:07]
justusranvier	mircea_popescu: FYI: https://plus.google.com/events/c3hmjaeivvnd6oj02hvdo1ca658	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	justusranvier what am i lookin' at ?	[20:10]
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mircea_popescu	Michael Goldstein presentats a tutorial on GPG contracts and the #bitcoin-otc web of trust. < that ?	[20:11]
justusranvier	We started syndicating our weekly bitcoin meetups.	[20:11]
justusranvier	So now they'll be put on YouTube	[20:11]
justusranvier	Instead of just teaching classes to the people who show up in person it spreads the reach a bit	[20:12]
justusranvier	He'll be talking about your GPG Contracts article.	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	aite, how can i help ?	[20:12]
justusranvier	Maybe one of these days you could get on a Hangout with us for a Q&A.	[20:13]
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asciilifeform	http://cryptome.org/2014/09/nsa-strategic-mission-list.pdf << mega-lol	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	what's a hangout ?	[20:15]
asciilifeform	http://pastebin.com/T0za6UsQ << deturdified	[20:15]
assbot	SECRET//COMINT//REL TO USA, AUS, CAN, GBR//20291123 United States SIGINT System - Pastebin.com	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform lol i saw that.	[20:16]
justusranvier	mircea_popescu: Google's answer to Skype. Useful in that you can stream/record to YouTube	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	why must the format be bulky and impossible ? can't we do this ?	[20:16]
penguirker	New blog post: https://www.bcoinnews.com/headlines-documents-ftc-vs-bfl-bitcoin-mining-case/	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	do this : hire a chick wherever your studio is located. i'll pay for her tiome, give her an xchat terminal and she can read my replies.	[20:17]
justusranvier	mircea_popescu: Example: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8tHKJLkEYXX_C_yuDop1kC6UMozzCKXq	[20:17]
assbot	Austin Bitcoin Meetup Guest Speaker Series - YouTube	[20:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.0007459 = 11.4123 BTC [-] {2}	[20:18]
justusranvier	mircea_popescu: Could work	[20:20]
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penguirker	New blog post: https://www.bcoinnews.com/ftc-vs-bfl-bitcoin-mining/	[20:24]
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mircea_popescu	!up moldysnizz	[20:25]
-assbot-	You voiced moldysnizz for 30 minutes.	[20:25]
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moldysnizz	Well howdy!	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	how goes	[20:26]
moldysnizz	It's pretty good so far. Slept in. No one around but a couple of dogs. Still breathing... Good shit right here.	[20:27]
moldysnizz	And I only fucked up my ;;bcverify once!	[20:28]
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moldysnizz	I've been trying to wrap my head around rand().	[20:32]
moldysnizz	Computers making randome numbers? I don't think so.	[20:32]
kakobrekla	;;gettrust moldysnizz	[20:32]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask moldysnizz!~moldysniz@unaffiliated/moldysnizz. Trust relationship from user kakobrekla to user moldysnizz: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=kakobrekla&dest=moldysnizz \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=moldysnizz \| Rated since: never	[20:32]
*	assbot gives voice to Duffer1	[20:33]
moldysnizz	I was formarly chatquack, but the computer with the creds is in storage.	[20:33]
moldysnizz	heh	[20:34]
moldysnizz	Parents garage. ;)	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	lol	[20:35]
kakobrekla	moldysnizz you prolly need to read everything ascii ever said.	[20:36]
moldysnizz	In reguards to rand()?	[20:37]
kakobrekla	correct	[20:37]
moldysnizz	regards**	[20:37]
moldysnizz	goes to the site	[20:37]
kakobrekla	one star is enough	[20:37]
TheNewDeal	***	[20:37]
kakobrekla	now fix it with "regards***"	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThHz9wlBeLUa	[20:38]
assbot	Madonna - Lucky Star - YouTube	[20:38]
moldysnizz	regards! heh.	[20:38]
jurov	dunno, large part of that material is scattered around trilema	[20:38]
kakobrekla	!s from:asciilifeform	[20:38]
jurov	related to cardano rng	[20:38]
assbot	26135 results for 'from:asciilifeform' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform	[20:38]
kakobrekla	moldysnizz ^^	[20:38]
moldysnizz	ty	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	!s "state of sin"	[20:38]
assbot	7 results for '"state of sin"' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=%22state+of+sin%22	[20:38]
TheNewDeal	Randomly scattered around trilema?	[20:39]
kakobrekla	not so randomly!	[20:39]
kakobrekla	quasi randomly perhaps	[20:39]
jurov	where did i wrote randomly?	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	there is method to this random!	[20:39]
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kakobrekla	where did i wrote you wrote?	[20:39]
jurov	not you, TheNewDeal	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	jurov looks like your buffer got injected :D	[20:39]
kakobrekla	lel	[20:39]
jurov	kako's too	[20:40]
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kakobrekla	we better sign irc lines	[20:40]
*	asciilifeform just saw, through window, an ornate 'sheriff' car, stopped. woman in police uniform emerges, tries to serve some kind of legal notice printed on large stiff paper to neighbour - who isn't home. she gets back in, drives off.	[20:40]
TheNewDeal	It was mostly a joke, on the topic of rand() ya know	[20:40]
kakobrekla	dud idk random jokes are so rand()	[20:41]
moldysnizz	wakka wakka	[20:41]
TheNewDeal	Ikr lol	[20:41]
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jurov	dat my mind. just produced a thought "what if we measure trilema entropy? and what if it ends up being over-unity?"	[20:42]
bounce	txtspk, bringing humanity into easy AI territory from the other end	[20:42]
TheNewDeal	Makes me remember the markov chain trilema	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	jurov no wai	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	THESE INSULTS!!!1	[20:42]
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jurov	...	[20:44]
moldysnizz	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2014#574674	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	trilema entropy is 0	[20:44]
assbot	Logged on 22-03-2014 17:19:21; asciilifeform: incidentally, my first exposure to the problem of RNGs with inadequate entropy was by accident, at uni	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	you just gotta know how to read it	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	unfortunately, it is a skill i seem to have mysplaced myself ;/	[20:44]
bounce	s/spl/sp/	[20:44]
penguirker	New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/the-witch-hunt/	[20:44]
jurov	trilema entropy is 0 << means 1 bit of trilema text contains 0 bits of information?	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	no, by way of 1 bit of trilema contsaining 1 bit of information and so no room for this entropy cheez	[20:46]
asciilifeform	'time was flowing at a constant rate of one second per second!'	[20:46]
kakobrekla	isnt that a bit fast	[20:46]
bounce	"security by lack of entropy" -- my, wouldn't that be useful	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	;;google time is going by really slow i think we might be dead	[20:47]
gribble	I think we're dead - YouTube: ; Police Officer steals Marijuana. - YouTube: ; What 3 things did you learn while you were in a near-death - TED.com:	[20:47]
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mircea_popescu	bounce it's basically asciilifeform's plan for computing.	[20:48]
asciilifeform	!s stone sword	[20:48]
assbot	2 results for 'stone sword' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=stone+sword	[20:48]
kakobrekla	!s hammer phone	[20:48]
assbot	2 results for 'hammer phone' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=hammer+phone	[20:48]
mircea_popescu	!s biggus dickus	[20:49]
assbot	0 results for 'biggus dickus' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=biggus+dickus	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	fixed now.	[20:49]
moldysnizz	He has a wife you know	[20:50]
kakobrekla	lel	[20:50]
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moldysnizz	http://trilema.com/2013/unsorted-collection-of-various-cardano-related-updates-spurious-pics/ intresting stuff!	[20:51]
assbot	Unsorted collection of various Cardano related updates + spurious pics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	moldysnizz yeah!	[20:53]
*	assbot removes voice from moldysnizz	[20:56]
jurov	!up moldysnizz	[20:57]
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jurov	!up moldysnizz	[20:59]
*	assbot gives voice to moldysnizz	[20:59]
moldysnizz	mircea_popescu, did you ever get a decent prototype of that RNG device working?	[20:59]
moldysnizz	thanks jurov!	[20:59]
kakobrekla	moldysnizz http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/tri1.jpg	[21:00]
moldysnizz	ooo fun!	[21:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00074764 = 7.9997 BTC [+]	[21:01]
moldysnizz	Is this like a Arduino?	[21:02]
kakobrekla	exactly like except completely opposite.	[21:03]
*	asciilifeform not sure how item in question could have been confused for 'arduino' - other than in both being small electrical gizmos	[21:04]
kakobrekla	both pcbs are blue	[21:05]
*	asciilifeform digs	[21:05]
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mircea_popescu	moldysnizz a prototype, yes.	[21:05]
asciilifeform	yes indeed - apparently an 'arduino' - blue.	[21:05]
*	asciilifeform never had one, didn't know	[21:05]
*	kakobrekla has a few	[21:06]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: they're 'atmel'-something-or-others with a bunch of convenient plugs, yeah?	[21:07]
moldysnizz	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1427 ahh I didn't relize it was it's own thing. Looks fun!	[21:07]
assbot	Loper OS » Cardano Prototype Tidbits: TRNG Boards.	[21:07]
bounce	clearly, for production you must come up with an unique colour	[21:07]
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kakobrekla	asciilifeform basically yea. you also have the arm editions in same package.	[21:08]
asciilifeform	moldysnizz: this particular item (trng) is a very simple but safety-critical (hence amount of effort spent on it) component of a larger apparatus.	[21:08]
moldysnizz	Right? Any decent crypto needs decent rng.	[21:10]
moldysnizz	I'm love'n it.	[21:10]
kakobrekla	i guess i expressed myself wrongly, as atmel indeed prints arm	[21:10]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: i thought 'arduino' used an 'atmega'	[21:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00075066 = 8.7077 BTC [+]	[21:11]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[21:12]
kakobrekla	theres hundredths of versions and editions	[21:12]
kakobrekla	arm example http://www.elechouse.com/elechouse/images/product/Taijiuino/	[21:12]
asciilifeform	i never really grasped the appeal	[21:12]
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mircea_popescu	;;seen davout	[21:12]
gribble	davout was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 8 hours, 41 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: oui et toi-même ?	[21:12]
asciilifeform	how hard is it to plant a micro in a breadboard or simple pcb ?	[21:12]
punkman	asciilifeform: the selling point is mostly the Arduino IDE	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	davout http://bitbet.us/bet/826/bitcoin-central-out-of-business-in-2014/#c4057 << you got a comment on this ?	[21:12]
assbot	BitBet - Bitcoin-Central out of business in 2014 :: 0.87 B (8%) on Yes, 10.09 B (92%) on No \| closing in 2 months 4 weeks \| weight: 36`753 (100`000 to 1)	[21:12]
asciilifeform	ide << what's in there? sdcc?	[21:12]
kakobrekla	ide sux balls.	[21:13]
punkman	and the "community"	[21:13]
asciilifeform	or is this another 'basic stamp' where 'pr0gr4m w1th0ut pr0gr4mm1ng like a l33t ch1xx0r' affair ?	[21:13]
kakobrekla	i use em for dicking around mostly	[21:13]
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kakobrekla	and bobms.	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	!up vorandrew	[21:15]
kakobrekla	bombs	[21:15]
-assbot-	You voiced vorandrew for 30 minutes.	[21:15]
*	assbot gives voice to vorandrew	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	exactly like except completely opposite. << lmao	[21:16]
*	asciilifeform can't read word 'arduino' without immediately thinking 'aradruin' from j.r.r.t's 'silmarillion' (and ru. translation of 'lord of rings')	[21:16]
punkman	cardanduino	[21:18]
jurov	!mpif	[21:18]
assbot	BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021861 B (Total: 478.05 B). Delta: -2.17 B. The round stones beneath the earth... have spoken through the fire.	[21:18]
*	moldysnizz chuckles	[21:19]
moldysnizz	Well, I have a shit-ton of reading now. Thanks for the info.	[21:19]
moldysnizz	I'm going to make my own TRNG. With hookers, and blackjack!	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	since you're doing that might as well go the whole nine yards	[21:20]
jurov	mircea_popescu: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=F.MPIF has no text	[21:20]
assbot	F.MPIF last 1@0.00020614	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	make your own grilfriend	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	jurov looking	[21:21]
asciilifeform	grilfriend << 'i'm cooked on that side, please turn me over' (st lawrence of rome?)	[21:22]
*	kakobrekla never watched lord of the rings	[21:23]
mircea_popescu	me either.	[21:23]
asciilifeform	good book, but you need to be a kid to appreciate imho	[21:24]
asciilifeform	the film - depends if you go in for that kind of film	[21:24]
kakobrekla	wtf is with the round stones in the mpif fund, did you invest in that ?	[21:24]
asciilifeform	;;google round stones beneath the earth	[21:25]
gribble	Neil Young - The Round Stones Beneath The Earth (Dead Man ...: ; Dead Man Script - Drew's Script-O-Rama: ; The Round Stones Beneath the Earth... — Neil Young — Last.fm:	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	jurov http://mpex.bz/?mpsic=F.MPIF <	[21:26]
assbot	F.MPIF last 1@0.00020614	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla wait wut ?	[21:27]
jurov	gut :)	[21:27]
kakobrekla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-09-2014#849932	[21:27]
assbot	Logged on 29-09-2014 18:16:19; assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021861 B (Total: 478.05 B). Delta: -2.17 B. The round stones beneath the earth... have spoken through the fire.	[21:27]
mircea_popescu	that'd be mike's doing	[21:28]
kakobrekla	speaking of mike	[21:28]
kakobrekla	;;seen mike_c	[21:28]
gribble	mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 20 hours, 32 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: (j/k)	[21:28]
jurov	but the phrase is from assbot's fortune file?	[21:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20899 @ 0.00075138 = 15.7031 BTC [+] {2}	[21:28]
kakobrekla	!mpif	[21:28]
assbot	BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021861 B (Total: 478.05 B). Delta: -2.17 B. Have you got any tobacco?	[21:28]
kakobrekla	lel	[21:28]
kakobrekla	its prolly the fact i cant code	[21:29]
*	assbot removes voice from moldysnizz	[21:29]
kakobrekla	will that keep me off the list btw?	[21:31]
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chetty	news.yahoo.com/israeli-circumcision-device-provokes-union-outcry-south-africa-141537701.html	[21:48]
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*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[21:50]
nubbins`	chetty, there's a die antwoord song featuring a xhosa guy talking about circumcision	[21:51]
nubbins`	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbW9JqM7vho	[21:51]
assbot	Die Antwoord - Evil Boy (Explicit Version) - YouTube	[21:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2979 @ 0.0007472 = 2.2259 BTC [-]	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla NO!	[21:53]
kakobrekla	:(	[21:54]
*	assbot gives voice to Blazedout419	[21:55]
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Blazedout419	nubbins` got my poster!	[21:55]
fluffypony	please don't link to Die Antwoord, nubbins`	[21:56]
Blazedout419	Looks really nice...now to have it framed.	[21:56]
nubbins`	ah hahaha, fp is having an aneurysm no doubt	[21:56]
nubbins`	Blazedout419 great!	[21:56]
fluffypony	nubbins`: well the thing is, they're not even satirical or funny	[21:56]
fluffypony	they just take tidbits and snippets of red-neck society and then blow it completely out of proportion to try and make it "shocking"	[21:57]
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mircea_popescu	fluffypony sounds like a decent recipe for humor neh ?	[22:01]
fluffypony	one would think so	[22:01]
fluffypony	but in doing so they mostly come across as "meh" instead of shocking	[22:01]
mircea_popescu	"Die Antwoord (pronounced [di'ɑnt.ʋoːrt], translation: "The Answer") is a South African rap-rave group formed in Cape Town in 2008."	[22:01]
mircea_popescu	ok nm lol.	[22:01]
mircea_popescu	rave. srsly ?	[22:01]
fluffypony	yeah, see my point?	[22:03]
fluffypony	:-P	[22:03]
mircea_popescu	i do actually.	[22:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14667 @ 0.00074646 = 10.9483 BTC [-] {2}	[22:05]
xanthyos	IT IS OFFICIAL. THE SOCIALIST DANIEL VITA OF LANGLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA, HAS ELECTED TO STARVE TO DEATH.	[22:11]
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thestringpuller	good afternoon homies	[22:16]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu i have a quick question about the cardano	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	shoot	[22:16]
kakobrekla	is topace gone from irc for good?	[22:18]
xanthyos	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByuR-E1CcAICyNh.jpg << THIS GUY IS UNSKILLED AT SITTING ON AN AIR MATTRESS	[22:19]
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mircea_popescu	xanthyos got a problem down there ?	[22:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10250 @ 0.00074936 = 7.6809 BTC [+]	[22:22]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: if your question relates to design or manufacture, it is possible that i can help you	[22:22]
Apocalyptic	xanthyos, less caps ?	[22:22]
xanthyos	ya	[22:23]
nubbins`	o wow, just signed up for a circle account and used it for the first time	[22:24]
kakobrekla	thestringpuller yes, the pcb is blue.	[22:24]
nubbins`	such easy	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	can we be friends anymoar ?	[22:24]
nubbins`	imagine, buying btc with a credit card	[22:25]
kakobrekla	nubbins` did you encounter any amount of jerk with that?	[22:25]
nubbins`	kakobrekla as painless as taking a shit	[22:25]
nubbins`	transferred $50 from my credit card, immediately withdrew to cold storage address	[22:25]
*	assbot gives voice to Dimsler	[22:26]
Dimsler	lol circled	[22:26]
nubbins`	gonna wait a few days to verify cc fees and do the same in reverse	[22:26]
Dimsler	wait	[22:26]
Dimsler	circle will take CC and convert to btc?	[22:26]
nubbins`	yes	[22:26]
Dimsler	has anyone fed it hacked lines yet?	[22:26]
nubbins`	warning: cash advance fees may apply	[22:26]
Dimsler	whats the approval process?	[22:26]
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nubbins`	no approval process, you just enter your billing details	[22:26]
Dimsler	no shit	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla as painless as taking a shit << ouch :D	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	so basically... just as long as wasn't a big shit.	[22:27]
nubbins`	mp eat more fibre ;)	[22:27]
kakobrekla	or bricks	[22:27]
Dimsler	too much steak	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	Dimsler> has anyone fed it hacked lines yet? << i imagine not really so far.	[22:27]
nubbins`	what amazes me is that they managed to insure this whole process somehow	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	yet.	[22:28]
Dimsler	circle is going down	[22:28]
Dimsler	once the nigerians hear about it taking cc	[22:28]
Dimsler	for btc	[22:28]
Duffer1	that all sounds ripe for abuse	[22:28]
Dimsler	i know	[22:28]
Dimsler	sitting there feeding cvvs	[22:28]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: it relates to "intended use". I want to know if a certain scenario is in scope.	[22:30]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: ideally, ask here, but if you must - pgp	[22:30]
asciilifeform	i can't think of any reason not to ask publiclyh	[22:30]
thestringpuller	We are talking publicly?	[22:31]
thestringpuller	I was just wondering if you were in the mood to take questions :P	[22:31]
Dimsler	who the fuck is stringpuller	[22:31]
kakobrekla	is in scope if you hook it up to one	[22:31]
thestringpuller	:D	[22:31]
asciilifeform	i will be, for at least another ten minutes, then i go & take break from computer, cut a little aluminum	[22:31]
nubbins`	oh lel, my visa-enabled debit card works, too	[22:32]
Dimsler	lol wow	[22:32]
Dimsler	no idea verification?	[22:32]
kakobrekla	see nubbins` try out his 584 cards going broke	[22:32]
Dimsler	er	[22:32]
Dimsler	ID	[22:32]
nubbins`	Dimsler nope just cvv	[22:32]
Dimsler	whats the limit to load in?	[22:33]
nubbins`	$500 per week, it seems	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	Dimsler what a stupid q lol. how would they enforce a limit ?	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	10k ips, 10k stolen cards, 10k bitcoins and womenz ain't one.	[22:33]
Dimsler	LOL	[22:33]
Duffer1	yep	[22:33]
Dimsler	10k bitcoin = womenz	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	;;got 99 problems womenz ain't one	[22:34]
gribble	Error: "got" is not a valid command.	[22:34]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: let's have your scenario.	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	;;google got 99 problems womenz ain't one	[22:34]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: could the cardano be used as a blackbox key generator? for instance someone once escrow keys that are one time use, the device can sign a message utilizing these generated keys, but they are inevitably destroyed, and no one has true record of the private keys used to sign said message	[22:34]
gribble	I Got 99 Problems But a Bitch Ain't One \| Know Your Meme: ; I swear to God I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one /.. – All Me: ; Spreadshirt Women's 99 Problems But My (1 more message)	[22:34]
thestringpuller	i apologize for the disarray of thoughts. a dpaste more flushed out maybe more beneficial in terms of relating the scenario	[22:34]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: how do you (operator of device) intend to prove to your counterparty that you destroyed key ?	[22:35]
Dimsler	rm -rf	[22:35]
Dimsler	duh	[22:35]
thestringpuller	the counterparty is in the room and takes the cardano as part of the deal	[22:35]
thestringpuller	however the person generating the keys flips the switch	[22:35]
Dimsler	seriously anytype of scenario where a private key has to be trusted leaves room for malice	[22:35]
thestringpuller	to delete them	[22:35]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: how does your counterparty know that your cardano behaves as printed on the tin, and is not a substitute of identical appearance which you built in evil lab ?	[22:36]
*	assbot gives voice to thickasthieves	[22:36]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: or that you have not replaced firmware with your own, that spits out a predestined set of keys cyclically ever time zap is thrown ?	[22:36]
thestringpuller	how do people know the cardano came from you asciilifeform and mircea_popescu 's "good lab" in the first place?	[22:36]
Dimsler	signed	[22:37]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: if you have concerns about solidity of design - you will have to study the published specs (upcoming) before considering purchasing device.	[22:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14616 @ 0.00075199 = 10.9911 BTC [+] {4}	[22:37]
nubbins`	then buy the t-shirt	[22:38]
thestringpuller	no concerns just trying to see if use case i possible	[22:38]
asciilifeform	if you have concerns about supply chain - there is no choice, assuming you wish to use device, other than to examine your particular unit.	[22:38]
thestringpuller	is*	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i don't get the logic in your last two	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	so the guy is supposed to study the design, to find out if it comes fro mevil lab ?	[22:38]
asciilifeform	no	[22:38]
asciilifeform	this is the #1 most asked question	[22:38]
thickasthieves	to learn how to audit	[22:38]
asciilifeform	'why should i believe you'	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform bt YOU asked HIM	[22:39]
asciilifeform	aha	[22:39]
asciilifeform	yes.	[22:39]
thickasthieves	i recall you stating buyer can replace parts	[22:39]
Dimsler	what a silly conversation	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	ikr.	[22:39]
Dimsler	honestly there still a certain level of trust	[22:39]
Dimsler	that has to occur	[22:39]
asciilifeform	i believe thestringpuller is asking for a known impossibility - a mechanical angel.	[22:39]
Dimsler	i mean what are you nit picking at?	[22:39]
asciilifeform	that will broker transactions for him, be instantly recognizable as angelic on sight by a counterparty, etc.	[22:39]
thickasthieves	you cannot remove trust from human dealing	[22:39]
Dimsler	i know	[22:40]
Dimsler	thestringpuller, quit trolling	[22:40]
asciilifeform	let's rephrase. why, in just about any army in the world, soldier must carry and care for his own rifle?	[22:40]
asciilifeform	why not a barrel full of rifles, handed out before attack.	[22:40]
nubbins`	ooh i know	[22:40]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: i see.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform actually this is how it was done during romanian revolution	[22:41]
asciilifeform	well if only source for rifles is plundered arsenal - yes	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	coupla guys showed up at state tel;evsion building, dumped a sack of machine guns on floor	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	everyone got some. derps couldn't even fire them, stuffed pants	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	"get one, might be handy"	[22:41]
asciilifeform	lol	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	true story.	[22:41]
Dimsler	lol	[22:42]
asciilifeform	what were they? kalash clones ?	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	(not really machine guns as in, three person platform fired band fed. shitty mps)	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	;;google pistolul automat carpati	[22:42]
gribble	Pistoale \| Comparison tables - SocialCompare: ; Infanteria Română – 180 de ani - Revista Forţelor Terestre: ; teroristii din decembrie 1989 « The Romanian Revolution of ...:	[22:42]
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xanthyos	capslock on the internet is the death throe of the loud poor man	[22:42]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: mechanical angel << well cardano is resistant to DPA, isn't this an angelic property?	[22:42]
thickasthieves	caps lock key shouldnt even exist imo	[22:43]
xanthyos	it made sense on mechanical typewriters	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/PA_Md._1986 < that thing	[22:43]
assbot	PA Md. 1986 - Wikipedia	[22:43]
thickasthieves	back when typing in all caps was okay?	[22:43]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: try to understand the idea. your particular unit, which you unpack, (optionally) study under microscope, replace various parts (optionally) with old stock, etc. - you can vouch for the properties of.	[22:43]
xanthyos	back when people used to troll with paper	[22:44]
asciilifeform	another fellow who pulls out a visually-similar apparatus - what can you say about his.	[22:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: looks like ordinary kalash	[22:44]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: oh now i see. i was once blind. thanks for giving me eyes.	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	"România, membră a Tratatului de la Varșovia, a decis trecerea la noul calibru la începutul anilor 1980. În loc să fabrice direct o copie a automatului AK-74, conducerea de la București a decis dezvoltarea unei arme independent de cea sovietică. Rezultatul, Pușca Automată Model 1986, deși similară familiei AK-74, avea unele elemente constructive proprii. "	[22:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: believe or not, they used to sell them - here! a few hundred usd.	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	moved to the m16-inspired vietnam 5.56, in 1980, but decided to make own gun	[22:45]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: how they ended up in america - who knows!	[22:45]
nubbins`	thickasthieves: you obviously grew up in the age of varying-case fonts	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	ended up with clone with "some own elements"	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	it's really not a very good gun	[22:45]
nubbins`	should be a lower-case lock key IMO.	[22:45]
Dimsler	well romanian aks are pretty nice	[22:45]
Dimsler	probably the best one vs an original russian one	[22:45]
asciilifeform	goes 'bang' when pull trigger, that's generally all people ask for around here	[22:45]
Dimsler	what year did romanian aks go to mild receivers?	[22:46]
Dimsler	er milled	[22:46]
asciilifeform	american aficionados grumble about ro. metallurgy	[22:46]
kakobrekla	asciilifeform also 'not in the face' ?	[22:46]
asciilifeform	but i can't say specifically why	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	Dimsler not an expert, but prolly the 70s.	[22:46]
asciilifeform	not in the face << obligatory:	[22:46]
asciilifeform	;;google project eldest son	[22:47]
gribble	Project Eldest Son - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Project Eldest Son – The U.S. Scheme to Sabotage Charlie's Rifles \|: ; Project Eldest Son: Covert Ammo Sabotage in Vietnam \| Field ...: (1 more message)	[22:47]
asciilifeform	^ where the ubiquitous image of 'kalash that fires backwards' came from	[22:47]
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thickasthieves	i think mp or someone already shared something like this, but http://dpaste.com/1ACV2MC	[22:48]
assbot	dpaste: 1ACV2MC: You Have a New Comment, by tat	[22:48]
Dimsler	lol	[22:48]
asciilifeform	broken spamatron.	[22:48]
Dimsler	the ak is pretty decent for back fires	[22:48]
asciilifeform	the 'eldest son' trick would work on almost any small arm	[22:49]
asciilifeform	or hell, even artillery piece	[22:49]
kakobrekla	cool	[22:49]
thickasthieves	bfl made these http://buttcoin.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/M4J11vT.jpg	[22:50]
nubbins`	lel I KNOW RIGHT	[22:50]
Dimsler	LOL	[22:50]
asciilifeform	(americans simply replaced one or two shells' powder with tetryl, resealed container, and left it for enemy to find as a trophy)	[22:50]
kakobrekla	Y I NO SHIP? I R AIRPLANE.	[22:51]
asciilifeform	out of curiosity, q for the aficionados: is there any mining hw vendor that is innocent of the scam 'bfl' is known to have carried out ?	[22:52]
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thickasthieves	i'd say no	[22:52]
kakobrekla	fury?	[22:52]
thickasthieves	ah maybe them	[22:52]
thickasthieves	asicminer did technically IPO before they had a thing	[22:53]
thickasthieves	though they never took customer money w/o shipping	[22:53]
asciilifeform	but is there even one asic vendor that didn't mine with customer-paid chips before shipping ?	[22:53]
kakobrekla	fury	[22:53]
thickasthieves	they also have the best logo	[22:53]
thickasthieves	amazing	[22:54]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[22:54]
asciilifeform	not even 'testing' ?	[22:54]
*	myriadgetsmehard (~bonerKILL@68-190-212-206.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:54]
*	kakobrekla got his chips before he managed to get em running	[22:54]
*	assbot gives voice to The20YearIRCloud	[22:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7724 @ 0.00075288 = 5.8152 BTC [+]	[22:55]
The20YearIRCloud	Doesn't Romania still use stamped AK recievers? I know all the ones we get here in the US are paper thin	[22:55]
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asciilifeform	The20YearIRCloud: (ianal!) but recently i was told that it is, apparently, still legal to cut your own 'receiver' in usa - so long as you write your name on it.	[22:56]
The20YearIRCloud	Very much so , i have several	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	The20YearIRCloud yeah mostly	[22:57]
The20YearIRCloud	Manufacturing firearms isn't illegal anyhwere in the US outside of California and NY whom have additional restrictions. The federal deal is that it has to comply with all local laws, and if you intent to sell it, they require your information to be on it.	[22:57]
punkman	this circle thing works, just grabbed a cheap coin	[22:57]
The20YearIRCloud	And then, the 'firearm' as far as the USG and ATF are concerned is the part that contains the serial number	[22:57]
nubbins`	punkman +1 amirite	[22:57]
asciilifeform	The20YearIRCloud: afaik there's some national list of prohibited features	[22:57]
The20YearIRCloud	So with an AK/AR it's the reciever, on something like a glock it's the frame/grip.	[22:57]
punkman	nubbins`: almost +1	[22:58]
The20YearIRCloud	It's a limited group asciilifeform : No barrels under 16" , gun must be 26" or longer, no fully auto/burst. No shotguns under 18" barrel.	[22:58]
punkman	surprised it worked in this shithole	[22:58]
*	asciilifeform wonders if small arms makers in usa spend more on metals, machining, or lawyers	[22:58]
The20YearIRCloud	Labor	[22:58]
The20YearIRCloud	The uS passed a law a while ago that made it quite hard to sue a gun maker	[22:58]
asciilifeform	sue (civil action) or prosecute ?	[22:59]
The20YearIRCloud	Correct	[22:59]
punkman	nubbins`: did you get like 10 sms messages from them?	[22:59]
The20YearIRCloud	Because if they would allow it, it would bring on a severe wave of 'i improperly used your product to hurt someone, so i'm gonna sue' which happend a ton in the early 90s	[22:59]
asciilifeform	let's say you manufacture, e.g., shotguns. then inspector walks in, with a piece inscribed with your logo, 17" long.	[22:59]
asciilifeform	how you prove it was 18 when left your shop ?	[22:59]
The20YearIRCloud	Depends on what kind of inspection you're talking about	[22:59]
nubbins`	punkman any major action required a SMS verification code	[22:59]
asciilifeform	whatever kind of inspection (ianal)	[23:00]
The20YearIRCloud	Well, most firearm firms that have a worry about the legality might send a copy or a blueprint to the ATF to get certification	[23:00]
asciilifeform	yes - of design	[23:00]
The20YearIRCloud	If it's a prototype, and you have a commercial manufacture license, you can fix that	[23:00]
asciilifeform	but how to prove that you didn't make a particular non-compliant item	[23:00]
The20YearIRCloud	If it's 17" , the law says you can just weld a piece of scrap metal to it that's 1" long and make it get to the minimum length	[23:00]
The20YearIRCloud	It's very, very difficult	[23:00]
asciilifeform	no, think about the hypothetical. inspector walks in with 17 inch barrel, says 'you made this. now to jail.'	[23:01]
The20YearIRCloud	SIG very recently put out a few hundred thousand items that the ATF decided they didn't like, and they were essentially impossible to recall, so ATF sued them, and SIG won the lawsuit	[23:01]
asciilifeform	you: 'it was 18. you sawed it off at fbi headquarters.'	[23:01]
The20YearIRCloud	Depends on commercial manufacture or doing it yourself	[23:01]
Duffer1	welding a muzzle device counts too	[23:01]
asciilifeform	inspector: 'libelling a loyal servant of the crown. extra jail points!'	[23:01]
The20YearIRCloud	Read up on the story of Ruby ridge to find what happens over that inch asciilifeform	[23:01]
The20YearIRCloud	becuase that's what happened. A ATF agent got a guy to cut a inch off a shotgun in exchange for $200, then started a whole ordeal over it	[23:02]
asciilifeform	that's tame compared to the gedankenexperiment. ordinary 'entrapment.'	[23:02]
The20YearIRCloud	Well in the case of ruby ridge the USG killed the guy's family	[23:03]
asciilifeform	but what if your refuse to break the laws, and inspector helpfully buys your 18 and cuts it in his office.	[23:03]
The20YearIRCloud	law says it's on them, although it could be done, ala gunwalker	[23:03]
Duffer1	forces can trick you into breaking the law with impunity	[23:03]
The20YearIRCloud	where they forced a gun store to sell guns to a known cartel member, or otherwise they'd throw all the people in jail. Then said cartel guy kills quite a few with said gun.	[23:03]
asciilifeform	just seems like you're at the total mercy of the crown, if you're a legal (registered) small-arms whatever-business.	[23:06]
asciilifeform	since law is whatever they say it is, and they can trot out whatever piece of hardware and say it came from your conveyor,	[23:06]
asciilifeform	they can force you to do or say absolutely anything - say, borrow your wife, or whatnot.	[23:07]
nubbins`	;;tslb	[23:08]
gribble	Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.	[23:08]
nubbins`	hm	[23:08]
nubbins`	no kidding	[23:08]
asciilifeform	in fact, this logically applies to anyone known to own the required tools for manufacturing illegal widgets	[23:08]
The20YearIRCloud	or legal ones	[23:08]
asciilifeform	this is roughly the situation with organic chemistry in usa, and has been for many years	[23:09]
penguirker	New blog post: https://www.bcoinnews.com/bfl-internal-log/	[23:10]
asciilifeform	owns beaker? terrorist. all that remains is for inquisitor to establish what naughty substance you were making (or intended to make - separate article in penal code)	[23:10]
*	RagnarDanneskjol (~ragnardan@75-23-231-33.lightspeed.lgngca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:10]
*	assbot gives voice to RagnarDanneskjol	[23:10]
*	MolokoDeck (~moloko@cpe-70-117-68-131.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:11]
asciilifeform	you: 'i wanted a belousov–zhabotinsky reaction.' judge: 'you want chemisty - go to a store.' you: 'can't buy in a store' judge:	[23:11]
*	MolokoDeck is now known as MolokoDesk	[23:11]
asciilifeform	'then illegal'	[23:11]
nubbins`	!up PeterL	[23:11]
*	assbot gives voice to PeterL	[23:11]
nubbins`	use it wisely	[23:11]
PeterL	asciilifeform: presumably the gun manufactureres keep records of what they produce	[23:12]
asciilifeform	PeterL: you don't get it, do you	[23:12]
PeterL	signed by the techs certifiying they meet specs	[23:12]
PeterL	then they can use those docs in court	[23:12]
asciilifeform	PeterL: inspector walks in with the 17-inch barrel, and says 'you are also guilty of falsifying records, since your records do not show that you made this'	[23:12]
PeterL	then they would have to prove records were falsified	[23:13]
asciilifeform	really.	[23:13]
asciilifeform	this is the basic 'kilo of cocaine in your toilet tank' theorem	[23:13]
asciilifeform	any 'strict liability offence' carries with it - this theorem	[23:13]
asciilifeform	in that burden of proof is, de facto, on the accused in all cases.	[23:13]
*	BingoBoingo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)	[23:13]
asciilifeform	because in as far as prosecutor goes - he has easy life. i.e. an illegal $item with your name on it	[23:14]
asciilifeform	'loyal servant of the crown says he found this under your bed.'	[23:14]
PeterL	I wonder if this has been tried in court yet?	[23:14]
asciilifeform	depends on what you mean by 'this'	[23:15]
*	devthedev has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:15]
PeterL	your example, modified gun used to prosecute manufacturer of record?	[23:15]
asciilifeform	PeterL: normally they use 'child porn' to create a 'lettre de cachet' rather than gun.	[23:16]
asciilifeform	gun is just one example.	[23:16]
PeterL	could agent walk into my lab and say "You have benzyl chloride, acetonitrile and methylamine, therfore intent to manufacture methamphetamine"?	[23:17]
asciilifeform	yes.	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	use it wisely << actually he can selfvoice nao.	[23:17]
asciilifeform	(ask lawyer, see if agrees. as i understand - yes.)	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	in that burden of proof is, de facto, on the accused in all cases. << goes neatly with the	[23:18]
PeterL	but any organic lab will have those ingredients	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	'why can't miracles be accepted in science"	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	and for that matter, an excellent example of why so called "strict liability" and the rule of law can not coexist.	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	any state purporting to enforce strict liability is pure stalinism and nothing but.	[23:18]
asciilifeform	^	[23:18]
Duffer1	i believe it would be enough for an arrest, prosecution would be more difficult	[23:18]
asciilifeform	exactly what i was trying to explain here.	[23:18]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu then whytf is he PMing me asking for voice?!	[23:19]
nubbins`	!down PeterL	[23:19]
*	assbot removes voice from PeterL	[23:19]
*	belcher (~belcher-s@unaffiliated/belcher) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:19]
Duffer1	arrest if an officer wanted to fuck with you	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` perhaps he doesn't know it yet ?	[23:19]
nubbins`	i guess he does now	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	PeterL ident with gribble and voice yerself.	[23:19]
nubbins`	;;gettrust assbot PeterL	[23:19]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user PeterL: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=PeterL \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=PeterL \| Rated since: Wed Apr 16 17:10:12 2014	[23:19]
*	hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:23]
*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[23:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00075288 = 5.0443 BTC [+]	[23:23]
thestringpuller	another ghost graces us with her presence :P	[23:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23584 @ 0.00075288 = 17.7559 BTC [+] {2}	[23:27]
*	BingoBoingo (~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:28]
xanthyos	http://theantimedia.org/max-keiser-to-join-russell-brand-on-the-trews-for-one-week/	[23:29]
assbot	Max Keiser to Join Russell Brand on The Trews for One Week \| The Anti-Media	[23:29]
xanthyos	^ two men both of whom i have trusted and have let me down. "but i love him and maybe this time he won't beat me."	[23:30]
*	xanthyos remembers 2010's "buy silver crash jp morgan" keiser scam	[23:31]
Duffer1	how's maxcoin doing these days btw? :P	[23:31]
*	myriadgetsmehard has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[23:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28800 @ 0.00075286 = 21.6824 BTC [-]	[23:35]
xanthyos	i don't even track the prices of any alts	[23:35]
*	Kuba1234 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)	[23:36]
*	Kuba1234 (~quassel@aail168.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:36]
xanthyos	russell brand used to have a radio show 10 years ago full of revolutionary antistatist ideas. then he started getting work for cbs and disney and got quiet	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	* xanthyos remembers 2010's "buy silver crash jp morgan" keiser scam << should prolly blog about it	[23:37]
mircea_popescu	few do.	[23:37]
xanthyos	i was one of the idiots who bought silver at 29 and held it even when it spiked to 48	[23:37]
*	asciilifeform remembers	[23:41]
*	Kuba1234 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)	[23:41]
*	asciilifeform also remembers thinking 'doesn't kodak corp. have most of the supply, not jpm'	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:41]
*	Kuba1234 (~quassel@aail168.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:41]
punkman	how many times did Kodak go bankrupt?	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	ahhh it's so great to see blogger.com die	[23:42]
xanthyos	i got all my information from keiser's call-ins to the alex jones show, so i guess i deserved to lose	[23:42]
Dimsler	the two biggest idiots	[23:44]
xanthyos	when idiots speak confidently, it's hard to resist their charm. that's why jehovah's witnesses visit in pairs	[23:45]
Dimsler	pretty sure the only people taking jones seirously are low brow hicks	[23:45]
Dimsler	that are easy to convince into a wearing a tin foil hat	[23:45]
xanthyos	his gravelly voice puts me to sleep	[23:46]
thestringpuller	lets all buy caves property	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	shit guise, drop everything.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	the future of payments is here.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	http://billdesk.com/	[23:47]
*	vorandrew (~vorandrew@109.67.3.243) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:47]
Dimsler	lol	[23:47]
thestringpuller	ah the 90's	[23:47]
Dimsler	lol are you still here	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	http://wmtransfer.com/ check that out.	[23:53]
assbot	WebMoney — Universal Payment System	[23:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00075301 = 24.774 BTC [+] {4}	[23:55]
punkman	mircea_popescu: probably older than paypal	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	yup	[23:57]
The20YearIRCloud	I'm the only guy i know that bought into silver that hasn't lost a good deal of money into it	[23:58]
nubbins`	i know a hippie that put every cent he had into silver in 2008	[23:59]

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