Forum logs for 29 Jan 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
mod6 asciilifeform: oh sorry, yeah, about to upload the stuff to the site & then send the emails. [00:05]
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mod6 feel free to send what you like as far as tinyscheme. [00:05]
mod6 i've got a release vpatch up my sleeve, but no email ready for that or anything. that's coming within a number of days I suspect. but probably after the 1st. [00:06]
asciilifeform mod6: i'ma post the whole thing. i don't mind re-grinding later if necessary. [00:15]
asciilifeform would like to get folks readin' it [00:15]
mod6 sure thing, sounds good. [00:16]
mod6 thanks! [00:16]
asciilifeform ACHTUNG, PANZERS! [00:16]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes ! [00:16]
asciilifeform mod6 ! [00:16]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu ! [00:16]
asciilifeform et al... [00:16]
asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000198.html [00:16]
assbot [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN6qPP ) [00:16]
asciilifeform (and yes i will re-grind the ts genesis later. it needs to be re-based to add up to patch 1 above, also) [00:17]
mod6 nice asciilifeform! [00:17]
mod6 heheh "Now Taste The Meat." [00:18]
asciilifeform who will be the brave man who first tries this. [00:18]
BingoBoingo In further Mizzou lulz, protester are calling for student election (held after wolfe resignation) results to be nullified because Whitey won. http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2016/1/27/msa-needs-nullify-election-and-hold-another/ [00:19]
assbot MSA needs to nullify election and hold another – The Maneater ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN6xuS ) [00:19]
mod6 i'll give it a go as soon as I get the soba out and test the PVS. [00:19]
BingoBoingo And It happened already, because dick bags don't do the whole chronological order bsns http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2016/1/28/how-msa-senate-toppled-their-president-elect/ [00:20]
assbot How MSA Senate toppled their president-elect – The Maneater ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN6DCD ) [00:20]
BingoBoingo Fucking Mizzou's still going more Oberlin than actual Oberlin [00:24]
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asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i always found the toy election thing mega-lulzy [00:31]
asciilifeform esp. when encountered it in elementary school in usa [00:31]
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BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Honestly it looks like they should get bonus points for emulating "grown up" candidates so well [00:32]
mod6 Ladies and Gentlemen of the Most Serene Republic: V [v99996] is now available via http://thebitcoin.foundation home page or the ML: [00:35]
assbot ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UQkfe3 ) [00:35]
mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000199.html [00:35]
assbot [BTC-dev] mod6's V [in perl] version 99996 K ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN7kMm ) [00:35]
mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000200.html [00:35]
assbot [BTC-dev] mod6's V [in perl] version 99996 K with Cucumber Tests & Testing Guide Included ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN7naZ ) [00:35]
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ben_vulpes nifty many-handed work, asciilifeform. [00:58]
BingoBoingo Hoverboards are serious business http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/getaway-driver-fatally-shot-by-victim-during-hoverboard-robbery-in/article_10d1990c-5249-5726-9a7f-e08fb72e59e9.html [01:01]
assbot Getaway driver fatally shot by victim during hoverboard robbery in St. Louis; robber charged : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1NEwEfv ) [01:01]
asciilifeform re: 'hover' board, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-08-2014#807681 [01:06]
assbot Logged on 24-08-2014 21:40:36; *: asciilifeform had a dream many years ago that his grandfather took an ancient grinding wheel from workshop, turned it upside-down, and taught him to ride it. and now people actually do something quite like this. [01:06]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes: tried it yet ? [01:07]
asciilifeform mod6: neato! [01:09]
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ben_vulpes not yet [01:13]
ben_vulpes still actually slaving away fixing containerization horseshit [01:14]
asciilifeform for trb?! [01:15]
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ben_vulpes ofcnot [01:17]
BingoBoingo 420 pounder gets an Inquest over "How could they die of heart attack?" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12127760/30-stone-teacher-died-of-heart-attack-while-waiting-for-XL-stretcher.html [01:19]
assbot 30-stone teacher died of heart attack while waiting for XL stretcher - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1NEyaOY ) [01:19]
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ben_vulpes so today i open my bezzleputer, and discover a SECOND DOCK [01:27]
ben_vulpes consisting SOLELY of a GOOGLE CHROME icon [01:27]
mod6 wow [01:27]
ben_vulpes i click this chrome icon out of a morbid fascination [01:27]
ben_vulpes and lo a url i was just looking at in chrome on the phone opens in chrome on the browser [01:27]
ben_vulpes "it's to ease context-switching" devs in the room witnessing my astonishment attempt to tell me [01:27]
ben_vulpes also restarting the computer fixed "Photos" [01:28]
mod6 ugh [01:28]
ben_vulpes verily, i live in the modern windows. [01:28]
mod6 ^ [01:28]
ben_vulpes oh and xcode won't build our flagship project on my computer for some completely inscrutable reason [01:28]
ben_vulpes arcane linker errors coming from the "pods" [01:29]
mod6 asciilifeform: V did put shiva in the flow, and the verified the seals: http://dpaste.com/1AXWG30.txt [01:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @#64; 0.00055958 = 6.4631 BTC [-] {2} [01:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48278 @#64; 0.00055836 = 26.9565 BTC [-] {2} [01:41]
mod6 as discussed yesterday, barfs a bit pressing out the tree on the tinyscheme patches because of the timestamps: http://dpaste.com/05QQ9KD.txt [01:45]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NEA2Hp ) [01:45]
ben_vulpes FUCK [01:48]
ben_vulpes ME [01:48]
ben_vulpes http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21242107/pip-install-pil-dont-install-into-virtualenv [01:48]
assbot python imaging library - pip install PIL dont install into virtualenv - Stack Overflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1NEAlSE ) [01:48]
ben_vulpes the WHOLE MOTHERFUCKING WORLD is conspiring to rip the rug out from otherwise entirely stable software [01:49]
ben_vulpes ugh mircea_popescu's line about software only working at a point in time is so entirely fucking timely [01:49]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14322 @#64; 0.00055878 = 8.0028 BTC [+] [02:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14578 @#64; 0.00055878 = 8.1459 BTC [+] [02:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @#64; 0.00055269 = 11.4407 BTC [-] {2} [02:13]
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mod6 asciilifeform: it does at least ~compile~ http://dpaste.com/2QBY8S1.txt [02:36]
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mod6 asciilifeform: works! this is really cool : http://dpaste.com/35DN9JH.txt [02:56]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PE8ByM ) [02:56]
mod6 are these the only two implemented thus far? [02:59]
mod6 scheme_define(sc, sc->global_env, mk_symbol(sc, "btc-get-best-height" ), mk_foreign_func(sc, btc_get_best_height)); [02:59]
mod6 scheme_define(sc, sc->global_env, mk_symbol(sc, "btc-shutdown" ), mk_foreign_func(sc, btc_shutdown)); [02:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @#64; 0.00055644 = 6.2043 BTC [+] [03:07]
mod6 "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable. [03:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @#64; 0.00055574 = 6.1965 BTC [-] [03:13]
BingoBoingo Prospect of rpc-snip makes me miss web phuctor a bit less [03:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111581 @#64; 0.00055164 = 61.5525 BTC [-] {6} [03:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31450 @#64; 0.0005589 = 17.5774 BTC [+] {3} [03:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @#64; 0.00055959 = 5.8197 BTC [+] [03:45]
ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ&feature=youtu.be [03:48]
assbot Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VuI1MQ ) [03:48]
ben_vulpes things get interesting around https://youtu.be/aAGxDWKrjPQ?t=562 [03:49]
assbot Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VuI3Es ) [03:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @#64; 0.00055334 = 4.4267 BTC [-] [03:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @#64; 0.00054993 = 4.1245 BTC [-] {2} [04:12]
danielpbarron wow, pretty sure they'd have gotten away if they just ran over the fed that jumped infront of the truck at the last second [04:19]
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danielpbarron guy died basically saving the life of the fed [04:20]
danielpbarron with his hands up [04:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @#64; 0.00055959 = 7.8063 BTC [+] [04:21]
ben_vulpes look closer, danielpbarron, watch like three more times [04:30]
ben_vulpes unless they shot him before 9:30 his hands are at his waist [04:31]
ben_vulpes libruls are gonna say "he was endangering a good honest policeman!" [04:31]
ben_vulpes repubtards are gonna say "los federales gunned down a confused old man stumbling around in the snow!" [04:31]
ben_vulpes AND I SHALL LOL [04:31]
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polarbeard I've timestamped and categorized trb log lines, as well as improved the messages and removed (seeming never activated) destructive log rotation, here is the signed patch: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613 in case somebody with a decent reputation wants to review it so I can submit it to the ml [04:43]
assbot polarbeard_logging_sanity.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KewosO ) [04:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @#64; 0.00054893 = 13.1743 BTC [-] {2} [04:46]
ben_vulpes what does snet in a printf mean? [04:54]
polarbeard https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613#file-polarbeard_logging_sanity-vpatch-L2349 [04:55]
assbot polarbeard_logging_sanity.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KexnJJ ) [04:55]
polarbeard they are just prefix strings [04:55]
ben_vulpes aha [04:55]
ben_vulpes this'd probably be best delivered as 2 vpatches: one where you rearrange the deck chairs in the log messages, and another where you muntz out the rotator [04:59]
ben_vulpes that is a lot of delta to review for i don't precisely know what value [05:01]
ben_vulpes and for what it's worth i actually like seeing the function names in the logs. i know i could just grep for the log messages, but it's another way to get familiar with the codebase. [05:02]
ben_vulpes one develops a sense for what happens where in the codebase watching logs. [05:02]
polarbeard it truly is, as what value it has, it's just a step into better debugging capabilities, for this patch I've not added new log lines on purpose but I plan doing it for the next [05:03]
ben_vulpes what's wrong with gdb [05:03]
polarbeard nothing, but gdb is for debugging the present state [05:04]
ben_vulpes what you want to reconstruct full state at any point in time? [05:06]
ben_vulpes the problem with a patch of this size is that my face wearies of reading myriad log lines changed for seemingly aesthetic reasons, and i fear that even a close read will miss an underhanded c contestant. [05:06]
ben_vulpes you realize this is a 3kloc patch. [05:06]
ben_vulpes 2.5 [05:06]
polarbeard thats ok, don't worry then [05:08]
polarbeard I just felt it was fair to anounce its existence [05:09]
ben_vulpes yeah, sure [05:09]
ben_vulpes hell, submit it to the ml for posterity, i believe you have the wot rating for that. [05:09]
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ben_vulpes "this 2.6kloc patch rewrites every log line in the reference implementation, in support of further work i'm doing on" etc etc [05:10]
polarbeard somebody has to review it anyway, so I'll wait for any interest [05:10]
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polarbeard if not that's fine, I built it for me, the categorization was a nice idea from mp, though [05:11]
ben_vulpes he also wanted to tabbify the whole thing [05:12]
ben_vulpes definitely split the actual muntzing out into its own patch instead of complecting it with the rest of the work. i might be able to read and meditate on that patch. [05:15]
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polarbeard you want to keep it? most people said it never gets activated [05:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46520 @#64; 0.00054876 = 25.5283 BTC [-] [05:21]
ben_vulpes removing dead code is good, far better than rewriting the log lines. just split it out so that it can be reviewed seperately from the two thousand five hundred and ninety odd other lines of that patch. [05:23]
ben_vulpes polarbeard: do i still fail to make myself clear? [05:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @#64; 0.00054871 = 13.5531 BTC [-] {2} [05:30]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32001 @#64; 0.00054973 = 17.5919 BTC [+] {2} [05:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30093 @#64; 0.00054534 = 16.4109 BTC [-] {3} [06:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @#64; 0.00055346 = 16.7698 BTC [+] [06:23]
punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388237 << seems like it just removes ShrinkDebugFile() [06:27]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 08:13:49; ben_vulpes: definitely split the actual muntzing out into its own patch instead of complecting it with the rest of the work. i might be able to read and meditate on that patch. [06:27]
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punkman so the log lines are now prefixed with two types of things: ERR INF WAR and MEM ADR BLK NET WAL. If you are gonna do this it'd be nice to have the usual log levels on all lines (error,warning, debug, info) , so user can choose how much verbosity he needs. [06:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @#64; 0.00054685 = 9.9527 BTC [-] {3} [06:40]
polarbeard punkman: I wanted to categorize the information before prioritizing but it makes sense, in fact some server software (mongodb for instance) does this with double prefixes using this format: [06:45]
punkman polarbeard: but some lines have and some lines have [06:53]
polarbeard yes, you're right, I'll add priority and category in each line, thanks for the observation [06:55]
punkman that said, I'm not sure any trb users will actually want to filter on [06:57]
polarbeard me neither, but for the amount of data it needs to be introduced it won't hurt [06:58]
jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388055 yes this code is fine, cpp supports returning of objects by value, either by copying or some gnarly compiler optimization [07:00]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 01:15:23; asciilifeform: or hm, does cpp string class allocate a fresh turd when returning ? [07:00]
punkman (by filter I meant "don't save these lines", but I guess still useful when you are grepping or scanning with your eyes) [07:01]
punkman so shiva patch wholly includes the tinyscheme genesis instead of referencing it? [07:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21082 @#64; 0.00055384 = 11.6761 BTC [+] [07:06]
jurov mod6: is the V ..er.. V-ified? [07:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @#64; 0.00055428 = 10.4759 BTC [+] {2} [07:15]
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jurov polarbeard: i've updated ml, you can now post to btc-dev [07:19]
polarbeard thanks, I'll wait a bit for reviews I think [07:22]
jurov you will get more attention there than in the log, and you can always post an update [07:25]
polarbeard I appreciate the suggestion, I'll just finish ensuring each line has priority and category and I'll submit then [07:27]
jurov btw, while i'm on it: mod6, does V have any notion of "updates" and "reground" patches? [07:29]
jurov I know that i should manage the repository myself, but imo a version field would be good to have so that I can easily spot if someone posts revised version of the same patch. [07:30]
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jurov !up Uglux [07:31]
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jurov !up drnet [07:31]
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jurov hi Uglux, drnet [07:31]
Uglux hi [07:32]
jurov perhaps you're new and full of ideas to improve bitcoin? [07:32]
Uglux I'm not new but full of ideas ;) [07:34]
jurov care to share and watch them burn? [07:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @#64; 0.00054657 = 7.57 BTC [-] [07:39]
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Uglux sorry, no time... [07:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @#64; 0.00054597 = 13.5947 BTC [-] {2} [07:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28315 @#64; 0.00055289 = 15.6551 BTC [+] {2} [07:49]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6060 @#64; 0.00055472 = 3.3616 BTC [+] [07:53]
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polarbeard ftr, I've updated the gist, will send the patch to the ml later [08:02]
punkman jurov, how would version field work? [08:14]
punkman btw, does the turdatron use v.pl? [08:17]
jurov it does not use v yet [08:20]
jurov and the version field as just advisory indication which is the more recent patch [08:20]
jurov say i post mempool_frobs.vpatch [08:21]
jurov and upon feedback i redo it, should i just repost with same name? [08:22]
jurov wouldn't that cause confusion when other files stay the same? [08:22]
punkman I think it'd be best to name the 2nd patch mempool_frobsv2.vpatch or something like that [08:24]
jurov then it will sort *after* mempool_frobs [08:25]
punkman they'd conflict, can't be in same toposorted list [08:25]
jurov so v will complain and user will have to resolve it by hand [08:27]
polarbeard gpg will tell you when it was signed, you can use that to discard old patches [08:27]
punkman vit does have interactive deconflict mode [08:27]
punkman (there's an example in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-September/000166.html ) [08:29]
jurov not anything serious, just throwing some ideas.. looks like this needs to be revisited only when I encounter the situation actually :D [08:29]
assbot [BTC-dev] Some test patches and my V implementation ... ( http://bit.ly/1NZjGPg ) [08:29]
punkman ideally turdatron would press all the possible HEADs and let us see them in lxr [08:32]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12312 @#64; 0.00054544 = 6.7155 BTC [-] {2} [08:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16188 @#64; 0.00054416 = 8.8089 BTC [-] {2} [08:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20840 @#64; 0.00055218 = 11.5074 BTC [+] [09:01]
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BingoBoingo repubtards are gonna say "los federales gunned down a confused old man stumbling around in the snow!" << Old might have been the serious problem. Perhaps these men started too late to get the actual RUF sorta militia mindset. Turns out Kony was right. [09:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26860 @#64; 0.00055956 = 15.0298 BTC [+] {2} [09:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @#64; 0.0005596 = 13.934 BTC [+] {3} [09:24]
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BingoBoingo Lol, Cer's rag is pushing for private keys on Blackberry https://archive.is/23xqt [09:38]
assbot Bitcoin Adoption in Indonesia May Hinge on Blackberry Wallet Solution - Bitcoin News ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfF31h ) [09:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11410 @#64; 0.00055717 = 6.3573 BTC [-] [09:40]
BingoBoingo Win http://qntra.net/2016/01/gavin-andresen-proposes-same-hardfork-again/#comment-43827 [09:44]
assbot Gavin Andresen Proposes Same Hard Fork Again | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vv94rD ) [09:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @#64; 0.00054372 = 17.399 BTC [-] {2} [09:46]
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punkman http://fossforce.com/2016/01/sourceforge-and-slashdot-have-been-sold/ [09:52]
assbot SourceForge and Slashdot Have Been Sold | FOSS Force ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfGoVO ) [09:52]
punkman http://intothesymmetry.blogspot.ch/2016/01/what-heck-is-rfc-5114.html [09:55]
assbot Into the symmetry: What the heck is RFC 5114? ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfGEnS ) [09:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @#64; 0.00055131 = 4.3829 BTC [+] {2} [10:19]
asciilifeform ACHTUNG, PANZERS! [10:19]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes ! [10:20]
asciilifeform mod6 ! [10:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu ! [10:20]
asciilifeform et al: [10:20]
asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html [10:20]
assbot [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P ) [10:20]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388189 << i must say also that this is not why i wrote it, originally. this was an attempt at an online debugger, so i can interactively play with tx in mempool, issue db queries, etc. [10:22]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 06:06:33; mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable. [10:22]
asciilifeform none of those hooks are 'give to other people'-quality as of yet [10:22]
asciilifeform so i sent it off with a few very basic examples. [10:22]
asciilifeform soon i will post some examples of hooks which actually take arguments [10:22]
BingoBoingo But the RPC snip possibility is a beautiful side effect [10:23]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388210 << that thing is MASSIVE for fucks sake [10:23]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 07:42:24; polarbeard: I've timestamped and categorized trb log lines, as well as improved the messages and removed (seeming never activated) destructive log rotation, here is the signed patch: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613 in case somebody with a decent reputation wants to review it so I can submit it to the ml [10:23]
asciilifeform it needs to frag into a dozen patches with separation of concerns before i will bother to read it. [10:23]
asciilifeform what happened to n00bz starting small! [10:23]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-07-2015#1201185 << oblig [10:24]
assbot Logged on 14-07-2015 19:24:25; ascii_field: 'why not start small, he said, offering the yoga n00b a single nail' [10:24]
BingoBoingo Prolly n00b raised in the school of "EVERYTHING AT ONCE" [10:24]
BingoBoingo Or trying to introduce crap [10:25]
asciilifeform anyway, to go back to business, the pedigree bridge makes it possible to read, in one sitting, all of the changes i made to the classical tinyscheme which ends up in shiva. [10:25]
asciilifeform the latter is now to be considered properly vtronic. [10:25]
asciilifeform instead of a ball of crud. [10:25]
asciilifeform (it still contains a historical ball of crud, tinyscheme.) [10:25]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388233 << ah yeah let's pleeze not this [10:26]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 08:08:31; ben_vulpes: "this 2.6kloc patch rewrites every log line in the reference implementation, in support of further work i'm doing on" etc etc [10:26]
asciilifeform ;;later tell polarbeard when writing a patch, consider the effort required to properly grasp EVERY LINE [10:26]
gribble The operation succeeded. [10:26]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388260 << now fixed! see this thread. [10:27]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 10:02:07; punkman: so shiva patch wholly includes the tinyscheme genesis instead of referencing it? [10:27]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388268 << absolutely not, the very notion is a violation of vtronics. NOW on the OTHER HAND - human-powered 'gardening' of the vtree is a perfectly fine thing. notice how mod6 is doing a splendid job of it. BUT conceivably it is also possible for archaeologists to take all of the orphaned crud i ever pasted and come up with a correct vtree [10:28]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 10:27:57; jurov: btw, while i'm on it: mod6, does V have any notion of "updates" and "reground" patches? [10:28]
asciilifeform the crud will end up on dead branches. [10:28]
asciilifeform rather like the other blockchain. [10:28]
* asciilifeform bbl. [10:29]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27053 @#64; 0.00055964 = 15.1399 BTC [+] {3} [10:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12511 @#64; 0.0005565 = 6.9624 BTC [-] {2} [10:46]
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mats 'misra c' is a fun read [11:05]
mats of the 'underhanded programming guide' variety [11:06]
BingoBoingo So, I'm thinking about returning to linux... maybe. Any idea if RadeonSI drivers would work on a musl kernel? [11:07]
BingoBoingo Google is unrevealing on this matter because fucking phoronix spam clogs these keywords [11:08]
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BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency jpy [11:14]
gribble Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 46124.0706, vol: 11640.70373598 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 46257.3259985, vol: 7959.8477 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 45469.3125, vol: 5.06 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 46629.489, vol: 74106.70140000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 46000.0, vol: 72.27468694 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 46462.7425, vol: 114.3093928 | Volume-weighted last average: 46534.5335291 [11:14]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [11:19]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 379.73, vol: 11582.44765331 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 381.1, vol: 7949.34921 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 380.09, vol: 54857.02272742 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 375.0, vol: 5.06 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 384.820605, vol: 74078.79440000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 379.74001, vol: 414.16996823 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 383.1462, vol: 114.3093928 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [11:19]
BingoBoingo ;;more [11:19]
gribble 382.469010567 [11:19]
mats i just noticed pcengines 'apu2c4' will have ecc support [11:21]
deedbot- [Qntra] Bank Of Japan Takes Interest Rates Negative - http://qntra.net/2016/01/bank-of-japan-takes-interest-rates-negative/ [11:22]
BingoBoingo mats: AMD tends to have ECC as an available option in all of their chips except the consumer stuff, and even then it usually isn't the chip where ECC is precluded. [11:25]
BingoBoingo In other news 'Quantrill' is now synced up to the beginning of 2014. [11:28]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [11:29]
shinohai Everyone has spiffy node names but I. I just call mine that thing in the corner. [11:29]
PeterL ^ I was just about to say the same thing! [11:29]
shinohai >.> [11:29]
punkman mats, it says ECC "not working" though now. also saw a supermicro G series board that only has non-ECC [11:31]
PeterL my node is syncing, seemed to be getting tons of junk. I restarted it, using -addnode with the nodes from the wiki, seems to be going good again. [11:31]
PeterL Is there a way while it is running to tell it to switch back to the nodes you started it with? [11:31]
punkman PeterL, not really [11:34]
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BingoBoingo And the lolz roll on https://i.imgur.com/Q2X24B7.png [11:38]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZYsw0Z ) [11:38]
shinohai A poor toomlin got his feelings hurt [11:42]
BingoBoingo In other feelings https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1343716.msg13712823#msg13712823 [11:43]
assbot Wondering out loud: Which should Chinese miners support - Core, Classic or another? ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZYt7zM ) [11:43]
PeterL are chinese miners some sort of unit that all must act together? [11:43]
BingoBoingo Apparently? [11:44]
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BingoBoingo At least It's what the derps think? [11:45]
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BingoBoingo Even through my lens which is competely illiterate when it comes to the Chinese language, the miners seem to be having very spirited conversations. [11:46]
PeterL from the vantage point of the poor, "rich people" are also a unit which acts in a concerted manner [11:46]
BingoBoingo And for the bunny rabbit everything that moves and is not a fellow rabbit is acting in a concerted manner and an immanent threat. [11:48]
BingoBoingo F2Pool/Discus Fish is probably my favorite Chinese pool. [11:49]
davout BingoBoingo: "Qntra is the only Bitcoin news outlet committed to bringing Bitcoin news to Africa." <<< brilliant! [11:51]
BingoBoingo davout: Thank you [11:52]
fluffypony lol [11:54]
BingoBoingo Seriously though http://qntra.net/2016/01/nacdl-amicus-silk-road-warrant-unconstitutional-according-to-4th-amendment/ load less than 1/6th the data of http://www.coindesk.com/scaling-debate-bitcoin-core-outreach/ even when ignoring javascript [11:55]
assbot NACDL Amicus: Silk Road Warrant Unconstitutional According To 4th Amendment | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZYuSgw ) [11:55]
assbot Amid Scaling Debate, Bitcoin Core Goes on Outreach Offensive - CoinDesk ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZYuSgA ) [11:55]
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trinque there is a kiss of death for btcd which halts it in its tracks, does not crash. [11:56]
trinque I have seen this maybe 10 times by now [11:56]
fluffypony have you tried maybe not kissing the computer? [11:56]
trinque look, no kink-shaming [11:57]
fluffypony you're right, this is a safe space [11:57]
fluffypony for anyone reading the logs I apologise for not providing a trigger warning [11:57]
BingoBoingo And on that qntra page there's a bit more than a hundred KB of text on that page which gets compressed for transit [11:57]
trinque lol [11:57]
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BingoBoingo !up drnet [12:04]
* assbot gives voice to drnet [12:04]
BingoBoingo !up buzz [12:04]
thestringpuller GMaxwell is ranting up reddit repeating the Visa is not Comparable with Bitcoin thing. [12:04]
BingoBoingo good for him [12:05]
thestringpuller I don't even know if I should bother reading r/btc. kills brain cells like drugs. [12:06]
PeterL Visa is not comparable with visa, doesn't everybody already know that? [12:08]
PeterL ack, visa is not comparable with bitcoin [12:08]
thestringpuller Nope. The people focused on traditional payment processing believe Bitcoin should scale to visa levels cuz "Satoshi said so" [12:09]
thestringpuller the problem here is I doubt satoshi had any idea how visa and traditional payment systems scaled in comparison to bitcoin. [12:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22977 @#64; 0.00055926 = 12.8501 BTC [+] {2} [12:18]
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BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [12:24]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [12:24]
ascii_butugychag aaaaah teflon mouse tape ! [12:34]
* assbot removes voice from drnet [12:34]
ascii_butugychag what a small thing, how much less agony. [12:34]
punkman how's that [12:35]
BingoBoingo Aha, just don't heat the mouse over 500 degree farenheit [12:35]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html << cool! thanks for posting. [12:38]
assbot [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P ) [12:38]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388189 << i must say also that this is not why i wrote it, originally. this was an attempt at an online debugger, so i can interactively play with tx in mempool, issue db queries, etc. << very exciting stuff [12:38]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 06:06:33; mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable. [12:38]
ascii_butugychag i suppose this is when i restate my rage at the idiocy of gnudiff [12:40]
ascii_butugychag which does not allow file rename operation except as a megatonne of add/subtract-lines [12:40]
ascii_butugychag and so makes it quite impossible to properly have tinyscheme-genesis FULLY MACHINE-READABLY flow into shiva genesis [12:40]
ascii_butugychag (as my instructions note, it is necessary to rename a directory after pressing tinyscheme-genesis to end up with the shiva subdir in shiva patch) [12:41]
ascii_butugychag but i will NOT tolerate a megatonne of rubbish in my vpatch just to rename a dir. [12:41]
ascii_butugychag mod6: shiva is unabashedly a beachhead to eventually have the whole thing enlisped. [12:43]
ascii_butugychag as you probably know, my original interest in 0.5.3* was ~characterization~ [12:44]
ascii_butugychag (i wanted the book for a reason) [12:44]
thestringpuller yes yes. "fit in head" [12:46]
ascii_butugychag BingoBoingo: they gave me this surprisingly spiffy apple mouse-touchsensor-chimera, but it has gigantic rails in contact with the table, and tremendous static friction. but it turns out that teflon will make it slide aaah so nicely along, like hockey puck.. [12:47]
ascii_butugychag now i am fighting a compulsion to stick that tape to the bottom of every single object on my desk [12:47]
BingoBoingo Sweet [12:47]
BingoBoingo I might have to look into this tape. [12:49]
ascii_butugychag mats: so i wanted to go and read misra c, turns out it is payware ? [12:49]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: the magic mouse? [12:50]
thestringpuller or the white wireless mouse thing [12:50]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: 'magic mouse' [12:51]
ascii_butugychag the thing with the capacitance sensor top [12:51]
ascii_butugychag (quite worthless, i must note, without the aftermarker driver that lets you program new patterns in. need this in order even to have middle-click..) [12:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35867 @#64; 0.0005586 = 20.0353 BTC [-] {4} [12:52]
thestringpuller the joys of the walled garden. [12:52]
ascii_butugychag the joys of all weird proprietary hardware [12:53]
PeterL does it come with "right click", or do you have to add that? [12:53]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: believe or not, it does. [12:53]
ascii_butugychag scrolling also (whole surface is a scroller, x-y) [12:53]
mircea_popescu goood morning! and http://41.media.tumblr.com/fbaf749fbc96c8f28c3b1a788bb3f755/tumblr_nvtp8ePXvX1ru873no1_1280.jpg [12:53]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1nsMvZt ) [12:53]
ascii_butugychag guten morgen mircea_popescu ! [12:53]
mats ascii_butugychag: there is warez [12:53]
ascii_butugychag mats: worth leeching and spending time readin ? [12:54]
ascii_butugychag maybe give us summary ? [12:54]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [12:54]
mod6 All: Stand-by I've made some updates to the script referenced in the wiki as to drop in the latest version of V (with the latest 3 patches in the mirror) - im gonna test it, then post it here. It'd be good to have some of you test it too. [12:55]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388167 << they finally landed eh. [12:58]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 04:27:23; ben_vulpes: arcane linker errors coming from the "pods" [12:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15950 @#64; 0.00055964 = 8.9263 BTC [+] {2} [12:58]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388189 << best first step. [12:59]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 06:06:33; mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable. [12:59]
BingoBoingo lol, the Tor 'Tails' distro switched to systemd now [12:59]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388202 << why do the usg-tards look so much like attention whoring hipsters these days ? [12:59]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 07:18:40; danielpbarron: guy died basically saving the life of the fed [12:59]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo this significantly changes the bozo bit on "the tor project" from "don't install that shit" to "don't install that shit". [13:00]
mod6 One notable change to the build script linked on the wiki: Since we're pressing out V in a directory that gets created by the script, there is no way to have a .wot inside this dir that it can find -- the script ~must~ reference a .wot directory somewhere outside of the entire rotor build area. [13:00]
mod6 so I'm going to have the script reference ~/.wot -- this seems like a resonable place to put it -- again, V will not expect it to be there, so an additional param is placed in the V command as such: [13:01]
mod6 ./v.pl i http://thebitcoin.foundation wd ~/.wot [13:02]
mod6 ./v.pl p verbose TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch wd ~/.wot [13:02]
assbot ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UQkfe3 ) [13:02]
mircea_popescu the script ~must~ reference a .wot directory somewhere outside of the entire rotor build area. <<< wait wut ?! [13:02]
mircea_popescu this can not be [13:02]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [13:02]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [13:02]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: its "the tor project" they can't fit all of that into a single bozobit. Requires a whole base58 encoded xml bozo turd. [13:03]
mod6 mircea_popescu: it has to be, there is no way that we can create and populate a .wot directory inside of a directory that is created by the script [13:03]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo you can have whatever weird lisp "1" you wish for as long as it evaluates to 1 lol [13:03]
mod6 .wot must be created by hand, and populated by hand. [13:03]
mircea_popescu mod6 populated by hand, yes, that was the idea. [13:03]
mircea_popescu but you're telling me script creating directory $d can't create directory $d."/.wot" ?! [13:03]
mod6 make note that V does not /expect/ or /default/ to a ~/.wot dir, it just so happens in this case, that it needs to be somewhere accessable outside of the rotor build path [13:04]
mircea_popescu or however you denote string addition in that language [13:04]
mircea_popescu not to be a bitch, but for my own education. [13:04]
mod6 I can do that just fine yes, but i don't think we should populate the .wot directory via script. [13:04]
mircea_popescu certainly not. [13:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35665 @#64; 0.00055647 = 19.8465 BTC [-] {3} [13:05]
mircea_popescu but it should still be a subdir of the working space rather than a fixed dir somewhere [13:05]
mod6 so it should be populated by hand, outside of the build path, and referenced only in the script for access. [13:05]
mircea_popescu for one thing, you might wish to run v with diff wotsets. [13:05]
mod6 I can not reconcile this. [13:05]
mircea_popescu (actually half the reason to even have v is to run it with diff wotsets) [13:05]
mod6 Chicken/Egg problem with that script then. [13:05]
mircea_popescu but explain it to me so i grasp it ? [13:05]
mod6 brb. [13:06]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: I just got one of those mice from the vending machine. (We have vending machines at work for accessories. Slowly replacing IT with robots.) [13:06]
mircea_popescu did you have to pay money for it ?! [13:06]
thestringpuller nope. it's billed to the department. [13:06]
mircea_popescu nuts. [13:07]
thestringpuller 62.99 or something tho? [13:07]
thestringpuller how you gonna sell a mouse for 60 bucks [13:07]
mircea_popescu jesus. [13:08]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388210 << yeah, i will. [13:09]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 07:42:24; polarbeard: I've timestamped and categorized trb log lines, as well as improved the messages and removed (seeming never activated) destructive log rotation, here is the signed patch: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613 in case somebody with a decent reputation wants to review it so I can submit it to the ml [13:09]
mod6 ok so lets talk this through a bit. [13:12]
ascii_butugychag ^ [13:12]
mircea_popescu please. [13:12]
mod6 so the script as it currently exists, creates these directories: [13:13]
mod6 mkdir -p rotor [13:13]
mod6 mkdir -p rotor/toolchain [13:13]
mod6 mkdir -p rotor/TEST2 [13:13]
mircea_popescu ya [13:13]
mod6 then it moves into these directories to continue all of the gyrations that need to happen to build everything [13:13]
ascii_butugychag <+mircea_popescu> for one thing, you might wish to run v with diff wotsets. << YES! ~somebody~ GETs it [13:13]
mircea_popescu right mod6 [13:13]
mod6 ok. so if we create a .wot in /.../rotor/ (so, rotor/.wot), then it can not be populated by hand... [13:14]
mircea_popescu right [13:14]
mircea_popescu mkdir -p rotor/.wot [13:14]
mircea_popescu to keep to above convention [13:14]
mircea_popescu why can't it be populated by hand ? [13:14]
mod6 the only actual alternative here is to create .wot adjacent to rotor directory, along with the V source [13:14]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> why can't it be populated by hand ? << how can you populate by hand while the script is running? [13:15]
mircea_popescu the way i see this is, script tries " mkdir -p rotor/.wot " , if it succeeds it says "wot dir created, populate and re-run please" ; if it fails it proceeds with build. [13:15]
mircea_popescu what's the problem with this approach ? [13:15]
mod6 eh. bad things tend to happen when this script is run more than once. [13:15]
mircea_popescu that's just an error message tho. [13:16]
ascii_butugychag i still don't get why a vtron should use the net at all [13:16]
mod6 this was never really meant to be "the thing" just was initially meant for testing. somehow became "the way" [13:16]
mod6 so continuing with my thought here.. [13:16]
mircea_popescu just like bitcoin eh ? [13:16]
mod6 if we have V source and .wot adjacent to rotor dir, then we could press like the following: [13:16]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag why not ? and stop interrupting the guy! [13:17]
mod6 ./v.pl p verbose rotor/TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch [13:17]
mod6 so I think that could work actually. [13:17]
mod6 <+ascii_butugychag> i still don't get why a vtron should use the net at all << I'm open to well defined explicit ideas here. [13:18]
ascii_butugychag mod6: you recall how mine worked ? [13:18]
mircea_popescu mod6 the only concern with "Separate but equal .wot dir root" is that you will end up in a fucking mess of /try1/.wot /tryn/.wot and mix and match them with actual builds takingpart in another place and sooner or later you'll cross them up, or your eyes will, and the net result will be that you run a different security protocol than you intended, on occasion, [13:18]
mircea_popescu and overall a weakening of the entire security scheme [13:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57150 @#64; 0.00055965 = 31.984 BTC [+] {2} [13:19]
mircea_popescu so how about the script expects to see .wot in a relative path to the project, and if it doesn't it aborts with an error. [13:19]
mircea_popescu put the test sufficiently high up in the program flow you won't have bad things happen. [13:20]
mod6 that would be fine, but then we're in the situation where every single time that someone runs it for the first time, the script will fail with an error. [13:20]
mircea_popescu yup. [13:20]
mod6 and that is not a one-button-push solution as you asked for. [13:20]
mircea_popescu and that error should read "please put .wot sigs in /blabla/derpherp/.wot" [13:20]
ascii_butugychag relative path mega-sucks [13:20]
mircea_popescu uh. [13:20]
ascii_butugychag i almost always find myself with fuck knows what at relative-path-depth-n [13:20]
ascii_butugychag this was a common complaint about my rotor system also, recall [13:20]
ascii_butugychag 'whaddayamean i have to have the build tools 3 dirs out' [13:21]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag well looky, the problem there was that the dir tree wasn't curated well. [13:21]
mircea_popescu mod6 somehow in my contorted worldview what i just described does count as "push button" [13:21]
ascii_butugychag i broke my head on this for a while, and settled on '~/.wot by default, user-specified wot whenever you want' when i did vtron. [13:21]
mircea_popescu chiefly because I can aforehand know where i need to put the .wot and stick it in there. [13:21]
ascii_butugychag ~/.wot. [13:21]
ascii_butugychag and if you don't do variant wots, it can live there permanently. [13:22]
ascii_butugychag if you use variants - specify the variant each time, like the laws of man and god demand. [13:22]
ascii_butugychag hand-cranked reactor controls ftw. [13:22]
mircea_popescu i suppose this is actually a decent solution. [13:23]
mod6 ok so lets keep in mind that v99996 of V will only look for .wot in the current working directory unless told to look elsewhere for it explicitly. [13:23]
mircea_popescu did the entire week long circuitous path start with me bitching / trying to improve on it ? [13:23]
ascii_butugychag possibly [13:24]
mod6 and I think this is what we want. So we can stick with that, and probably not break anything -- i'll just move V & .wot outside of the rotor dir. [13:24]
mircea_popescu i'm quickly building a reputation for a wrecker of trb aren't i ! [13:24]
mircea_popescu mod6 alrighty, seems it's teh consensus here. [13:24]
ascii_butugychag having relative wots inevitably leads to keeping 10,001 copies of wot [13:24]
ascii_butugychag and all of the attendant breakages [13:24]
mircea_popescu no i finally see the light. [13:25]
ascii_butugychag l0l ok [13:25]
* ascii_butugychag read the mega-patch-of-all-ages yet ? [13:25]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu rather [13:25]
mod6 that's probably more acceptable than the following: ~/.wot by default (in the script) or stopping the script mid-processing to require human action (action should be taken prior to execution) [13:25]
mircea_popescu no dawg, im not done wioth the logs. then reading the #eulora logs which by now are even longer. [13:25]
ascii_butugychag l0lok [13:25]
mircea_popescu mod6 yeh. [13:26]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 alrighty, seems it's teh consensus here. << ok lemme put this together, and will post in here for you guys to review, and people to test. [13:26]
mod6 :] [13:26]
* ascii_butugychag much appreciates the labours of mod6 [13:26]
mircea_popescu hey mod6 how would you rate working with b-a vs working with job people ? are we just as enervating ye t? [13:26]
mircea_popescu if anyone recalls that joke about how mathematician is the only man who tells mistress he's with wife, tells wife he's with mistress, goes to woods with pen and paper to unwind... [13:27]
ascii_butugychag ^ [13:28]
mircea_popescu me types three letters in editor, hits tabs a few times, is very confused when the required fill-in doesn't occur. [13:29]
mircea_popescu "what the fuck is this piece of shit!" [13:29]
* ascii_butugychag whispers 'learn emacs' [13:30]
ascii_butugychag one of the 10,001 reasons why. [13:30]
mircea_popescu how the fuck is emacs going to fill in with irc names. [13:30]
mircea_popescu no, i'm not ircing in emacs ty. [13:30]
ascii_butugychag will fill with whatever you like [13:30]
ascii_butugychag no, for letters [13:31]
ascii_butugychag you can specify a tag file it will fill from when tab(or your favourite other key)-completing. [13:31]
mircea_popescu true. [13:31]
ascii_butugychag i have this semi-automated, it is quite convenient [13:31]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> hey mod6 how would you rate working with b-a vs working with job people ? are we just as enervating ye t? << this beats anything else I've ever encountered by a wide margin. [13:32]
* drnet has quit (Quit: Leaving) [13:33]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [13:33]
mod6 b-a has honest and knowledgeable people who care about the innerworkings of the technology, on a low-level, as well as on a meta level. [13:33]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag you know automation of it is actually an unsolvable problem, do you ? [13:34]
mod6 I wouldn't trade what we have here for anything. If I could work it out, this is all I would do every day. [13:34]
* hanbot (~hanbot@#64;unaffiliated/hanbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:34]
mircea_popescu hanbot hey were you making a trb current build ? [13:35]
mod6 Things are moving really fast here sometimes, and that can be hard to keep up with, but it's part of the deal. [13:35]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [13:35]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [13:35]
mircea_popescu cool! [13:35]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: notice i said 'semi-auto' [13:35]
* assbot gives voice to hanbot [13:35]
ascii_butugychag (fully automating just about anything is an invitation for meltdown) [13:36]
mircea_popescu wanna bet you spent more time fucking around with the auto thereof than it saved you ? [13:36]
ascii_butugychag it isn't about time as such [13:36]
mircea_popescu right. [13:36]
ascii_butugychag it is about avoiding flow disruption [13:36]
mircea_popescu actually that's the first time someone brought a cogent, well thought out objection to the classic "programmers wanna play and so ruin productivity spending moe time on tools than the tools save" thing [13:36]
mod6 ok the new script, having V outside of the rotor dir seems to be building just fine so far... will update again when its complete, or if fails. [13:36]
ascii_butugychag yes, it could take a whole hour to set up whatever, and i might die bfore it saves me a whole hour [13:37]
ascii_butugychag BUT those 5 sec the old crud cost me every 15 min. were ~flow-destroying~. [13:37]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: you should tell this to the leadership here who wants to automate all things. [13:37]
mod6 ascii_butugychag much appreciates the labours of mod6 << alf, you've put in a lot of effort too, and we all appreciate that very much. [13:37]
ascii_butugychag ty mod6 [13:38]
mod6 And honestly, I really look forward to working on these projects every day, and with all of you. :] [13:38]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: notice how ~some~ programmers (india!) l00000ve repetitive crudwork. they produce glorious unrolled 10,0001-iteration loops, etc. [13:38]
ascii_butugychag that is what comes of not-being-lazy [13:38]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: d00d I have to upgrade to el capitan to scroll on the mouse?!?!? [13:39]
ascii_butugychag a non-lazy programmer is about as useful as a sedentary sprinter [13:39]
thestringpuller dafuq apple. [13:39]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: install the 3rd party driver thing [13:39]
ascii_butugychag 'magicprefs' [13:39]
* thestringpuller breaks his macbook and gets sane Lenovo. [13:39]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: ahahahaha the one that won't suspend-mode, ah [13:39]
mod6 We've come a very long way, and we've still got some road ahead (we all know), but we can't have a republic with out the sovereigns participants who wish to make it. [13:40]
mod6 s/sovereigns/sovereign/ [13:40]
mod6 tl;dr we need all of you! you are what make the republic possible! [13:41]
mod6 I may have had too much coffee... [13:41]
mod6 haha [13:41]
mircea_popescu hehe sometimes i'm tempted to order him some cake! [13:41]
mod6 That pie looked nice tho! [13:42]
ascii_butugychag we have a whole kitchen devoted to coffee here [13:42]
ascii_butugychag at rupture farms [13:42]
ascii_butugychag i count 7 different kinds of pot [13:42]
thestringpuller and coworkers make fun of me for using terminals and lightweight tools cause they "ain't pretty" the actual fuck. this is exactly why being a web developer is like slow torture. [13:43]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388260 << there shall be no further fucking referencing. [13:44]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 10:02:07; punkman: so shiva patch wholly includes the tinyscheme genesis instead of referencing it? [13:44]
mod6 anyway, speaking of great things (tm), shiva really was awesome to see working lastnight. very impressive stuff. i just gotta learn scheme now hahah. [13:44]
mod6 back to CompSci 101! [13:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9850 @#64; 0.00055969 = 5.5129 BTC [+] {2} [13:44]
mircea_popescu i'd rather stop people in the street and ask them to make my women babies than reference whatever package maintained by nowot rando. [13:45]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: i closed the gap today, see the next patch. [13:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @#64; 0.0005597 = 1.7351 BTC [+] [13:45]
mircea_popescu aite [13:46]
ascii_butugychag (there was ~never~ referencing in my tinyscheme thing! it began with a vtronically nailed-down copy of known vintage from my own hdd, and proceeds from there.) [13:46]
punkman it was like having two tinyscheme genesises [13:46]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388269 << this is an issue more or less in suspensiopn atm, at the fundamental level. [13:47]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 10:29:19; jurov: I know that i should manage the repository myself, but imo a version field would be good to have so that I can easily spot if someone posts revised version of the same patch. [13:47]
mod6 ascii_butugychag: i'll try to give your new patches a shot tonight. [13:47]
ascii_butugychag punkman: now there is 1, from it flows contiguously into the shivatron [13:47]
BingoBoingo For gasmask afficianados https://archive.is/pYHuj [13:47]
assbot Minority Branches ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJTl9M ) [13:47]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag mod6 if you wish to consider a general problem : what is the ~correct~ thing to do for vtron when it encounters two validly signed patches doing the same thing ? [13:48]
mircea_popescu afaik atm it will apply both, in a random order ? [13:48]
mircea_popescu (undefined order) [13:48]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: it will apply the one that you press to [13:48]
punkman mod6, does perl have some good diff library so we could maybe implement sane renaming/deletions? [13:48]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag what do you mean "press to" ? [13:49]
mircea_popescu yeah actually what punkman said too! [13:49]
mod6 punkman: good question, not sure at all. can try to take a peek once we get past the 1st. i've got stuff stacked to the celing right now [13:49]
ascii_butugychag 'press to' is how we specify which patches get applied to begin with [13:50]
mircea_popescu no i know this. i'm trying to do design work here. [13:50]
ascii_butugychag look at 'pressable' pull-handles as: degrees of freedom. [13:50]
* mod6 ponders this question for a minute. [13:50]
punkman you can't apply two patches that modify the same thing, at least in newer v.pl that checks hashes [13:50]
ascii_butugychag the set of all possible pressings you can end up with [13:50]
mircea_popescu right. [13:50]
ascii_butugychag so if i submit frobs-x.vpatch and also-frobs-x.vpatch and they both reference patch frobbed-x-before.vpatch, then i can press to frob-x OR to also-frobs-x or to any other leaf. [13:51]
ascii_butugychag it does not matter worth a lick that they do the same thing. [13:52]
mircea_popescu the reason i question all this is because suddenly a possibility formed in my head, whereby v could have an equivalent of "longest chain". bitcoin does not follow THAT heuristic idly. but it must be said that a) it's a poorly defined heuristic and b) there are reasons. [13:52]
ascii_butugychag it sure does [13:52]
ascii_butugychag this was part of my design. [13:52]
mircea_popescu merely inquiring what "longest chan" ACTUALLY MEANS is a major point of actually defining bitcoin [13:52]
ascii_butugychag aha [13:52]
ascii_butugychag and same in a vtronic animal [13:52]
mircea_popescu (and we'll likely end up stuck in THIS sort of mud pits a lot more than i nthe "obvious" ones everyone thinks about) [13:52]
ascii_butugychag 'longest chain' is the trunk of the tree, where the sap flows. [13:53]
punkman V doesn't have chain [13:53]
mircea_popescu punkman not yet, no. [13:53]
ascii_butugychag but i will note that introducing a new patch that is binary-identical to an old one, is an error. [13:54]
ascii_butugychag and ought to signal error. [13:54]
ascii_butugychag patches are binary-unique. [13:54]
mircea_popescu approach thematter from the other, practical side, maybe it's easier that way. so i made a patch that did X, then i made a patch that did X'. i consider X' to be > X. [13:54]
punkman what if two patches change two files respectively, with the same contents [13:54]
mircea_popescu a) the presser might disagree and b) the V doesn't really distinguish [13:55]
ascii_butugychag (and, as i explained very early on, cycled are an error, and anyone attempting to introduce a graph cycle deserves a good thrashing) [13:55]
punkman (never mind, filenames) [13:55]
mircea_popescu or to put it in different terms : currently the V is equivalent to a version of bitcoin where YOU are responsible for downloading blocks. it WILL verify them and form a chain, [13:56]
mircea_popescu but it is your job to find the right ones. [13:56]
mircea_popescu now. could IT find the right ones ? [13:56]
mircea_popescu (for one thing : if IT could find the right ones, add that to gossipd and we have essentially built passive autonomous system software, ie, the evil ai.) [13:57]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: i spoke of this earlier today [13:57]
mircea_popescu don't tell me tis in the log i didn't get to ? [13:57]
ascii_butugychag ( http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388348 ) [13:57]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 13:27:00; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388268 << absolutely not, the very notion is a violation of vtronics. NOW on the OTHER HAND - human-powered 'gardening' of the vtree is a perfectly fine thing. notice how mod6 is doing a splendid job of it. BUT conceivably it is also possible for archaeologists to take all of the orphaned crud i ever pasted and come up with a correct vtre [13:57]
mircea_popescu lmao. [13:57]
ascii_butugychag aha. [13:57]
mircea_popescu dude... why the same day ? [13:58]
mircea_popescu riddle me that sometime. what, brainwaves ? [13:58]
* ascii_butugychag points out that he has been thinking about vtronics for a VERY long time. [13:58]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: well magicprefs is throwin an error (has a triangle with exclamation mark in the top bar) [13:59]
mircea_popescu so have i. which is what makes the conicidence interesting. [13:59]
mircea_popescu like comatose patients waking up the same time. [13:59]
thestringpuller y u do dis apple. I just want to use a mouse [13:59]
mod6 i wonder if we couldnt find 'the right ones' with some sort of merkle tree that represents the best chain. [13:59]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: sacrifice a goat to satan [13:59]
mircea_popescu mod6 or some sort of tree at ay rate! [13:59]
mircea_popescu anyway. nightmare fuel. [13:59]
mod6 hehehe. interesting thoughts here today. i need to think on this stuff. [14:00]
mircea_popescu now, one obvious solution (wasn't obvious to me at the time what it was a solution to) is to INCLUDE COMMENTS in the patches, like i did with my only signed patch i didn't really intended as part of a final pressing [14:00]
mircea_popescu this way the human gardener can review and arbitrate the matter and i (at least hopefully) won't get negrated for it breaking shit. [14:01]
ascii_butugychag aha, the format allows for it [14:01]
mircea_popescu so at the least a hook for human debugging to save us from cold equationism IS provided. [14:01]
ascii_butugychag but in point of fact, the v-chain aspect prevents a mistake from catastrophically breaking the world [14:01]
ascii_butugychag it simply gets orphaned. [14:01]
mircea_popescu yeah. [14:01]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: sacrifice a goat to satan << It's heretic apple, gotta sacrifice satan to a goat since woz is gone. [14:01]
mircea_popescu ahahahaha [14:02]
mod6 not to worry about your signed genesis tho - i gardened it out. the mirror just has the right one. [14:02]
ascii_butugychag i posted probably the most kB of unusable but validly signed crapolade to the ml [14:02]
mircea_popescu and most of it improperly commented, also! [14:02]
ascii_butugychag but none of it would break a single bolt anywhere [14:02]
ascii_butugychag because not longest vchain. [14:02]
mircea_popescu you do a miserable job of comments, btw. the thing with "only four bit state" has its disadvantages. [14:02]
mircea_popescu YOU NEED NUANCE ALFIE! [14:02]
ascii_butugychag if had moar time, would write beautiful illuminated manuscripts, sure. [14:03]
ascii_butugychag as it is, a single day's worth of shiva took a fucking week [14:03]
mircea_popescu yeah, there is that. [14:03]
ascii_butugychag shave half of face, submit patch, shave other half, etc [14:03]
mod6 as far as comments in the vpatch that are mearly just for archaeological or annotative purposes, i think something could be done here especially when we get our own diff/patch. [14:04]
punkman comments work in gnudiff too [14:05]
ascii_butugychag mod6: gnudiff is a miserable straightjacket (see earlier monologue re: renaming) [14:05]
ascii_butugychag ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation [14:05]
mod6 yup, eventually this could be a thing though, if we build our own tool [14:05]
ascii_butugychag so, e.g., mircea_popescu's retabbing, would be a five-line patch [14:05]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [14:06]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [14:06]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [14:06]
punkman ascii_butugychag: how would we shorten the retabbing? [14:06]
mod6 <+ascii_butugychag> ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation << ok sure, this could be a separate feature of V i guess... have to think on this. [14:06]
ascii_butugychag turing-complete vtron [14:06]
punkman ah [14:06]
punkman well that'd be a fun rabbit hole [14:06]
ascii_butugychag all rabit holes go to same place. [14:07]
mircea_popescu ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation << quite this, tho we might have to get there in steps. [14:07]
mod6 im just excited to use something called 'sexpr' [14:07]
punkman sexpurr [14:07]
mod6 :D [14:08]
shinohai <.< [14:08]
mircea_popescu in other sexpr news, http://36.media.tumblr.com/d4910e319712ed64e6a0d1be330bb652/tumblr_nva2x0Ofxa1uxo5jwo1_1280.jpg [14:08]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJVp1r ) [14:08]
ascii_butugychag i'ma have to come up with a slime for shiva, incidentally [14:12]
ascii_butugychag (this is mentioned obliquely in the shiva.cpp commments) [14:12]
ascii_butugychag maybe this is a ben_vulpes job [14:13]
ascii_butugychag (or adlai ?) [14:13]
ascii_butugychag do we have any adlai patches yet ? [14:13]
ascii_butugychag ;;later tell adlai wanna become a hero ? [14:13]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:13]
mod6 i've gotta take a crash course in scheme very quickly or I won't be able to make heads or tails out of these code submissions. eek! [14:13]
ascii_butugychag mod6: fortunately it is the world's simplest, possibly, usable language [14:14]
* huseby has quit (Quit: huseby) [14:14]
adlai mod6: you're already making lisp jokes, even if you don't get them yet! [14:14]
mod6 hehehe. [14:15]
ascii_butugychag adlai: i implanted a scheme runtime in a trb. [14:15]
adlai (head . tail) === (car . cdr) etc [14:15]
mod6 how much does actual scheme differ from common lisp or lisp? can i get a book for lisp (whatever latest megabook alf has posted recently) or do I need a scheme specific book? [14:15]
adlai ascii_butugychag: yes, i've been following along quietly. not sure what you mean by "a slime", literally interpreted this is rather meaningless as most of the swank-backends is highly CL specific stuff... i guess you mean a less literal interpretation :) [14:16]
mircea_popescu not that much [14:16]
ascii_butugychag differs in a number of ways [14:16]
adlai !s sicp [14:16]
assbot 18 results for 'sicp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sicp [14:16]
ascii_butugychag mainly in being 'lisp-1' [14:16]
ascii_butugychag sicp is THE b00k. [14:16]
ascii_butugychag mega-recommended. [14:16]
mod6 thats the one 'eh. thx guise. [14:16]
ascii_butugychag incidentally, phree on vendor site. [14:17]
mod6 is this the one? https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html << MIT?!?! [14:17]
assbot Structure and Interpretation [14:17]
ascii_butugychag adlai: 'a slime' in the sense of plugging an emacs session straight into the interpreter, with 'eval-region', 'eval current sexpr', as well as separate pane with repl, etc. [14:17]
mircea_popescu mit used to be a very respectable institution, merely a few decades ago. [14:17]
ascii_butugychag aha [14:18]
mircea_popescu just like oxford used to matter at some point in its history. [14:18]
mod6 werd. [14:18]
ascii_butugychag mod6: i mark the demise of mit as the moment when they abolished the sicp course [14:18]
mircea_popescu (different field, but same principle - you to this day can't beat literature as read at oxford cca 1880ish, just like you can't really beat it from mit cca 1960. the latter branch is obvious here, but the former'd be just as obvious in a literature-powered ba) [14:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143150 @#64; 0.00055762 = 79.8233 BTC [-] {6} [14:19]
mod6 ascii_butugychag: interesting they would abolish teaching something they created. [14:19]
mircea_popescu not "they". [14:19]
mircea_popescu this is like saying that the nignog "egyptians" abolishing the pyramids is "something they created" [14:19]
mircea_popescu look at the statues, entirely different people. [14:19]
adlai mod6: new-MIT decided that s/scheme/python/ would welp more fungible cogs [14:20]
mod6 mircea_popescu: makes sense. [14:20]
mod6 adlai: ah, right. [14:20]
adlai this was literally their justification [14:20]
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mod6 heheheh. [14:20]
adlai maybe they didn't use the words 'fungible' and 'cog', but it was justified as what junior devs need to pass interviews [14:21]
mod6 aight, i better get me some lunch to soak up this coffee. bbs. [14:21]
mod6 (build is still going, hopefully will be done soon - will let you all know. salud!) [14:21]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388299 << this is actually not a half bad idea for a sort of "sauron" mode. [14:22]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 11:31:05; punkman: ideally turdatron would press all the possible HEADs and let us see them in lxr [14:22]
mircea_popescu which may be needed now and again. [14:22]
adlai ascii_butugychag: might be smoother sailing to start off from comint-mode and work upwards, rather than trying to fit slime onto so different a backend [14:22]
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ascii_butugychag !s sussman [14:29]
assbot 23 results for 'sussman' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sussman [14:29]
ascii_butugychag he wrote a formal letter of surrender to the rot [14:29]
ascii_butugychag which is imho an important historical document [14:30]
ascii_butugychag marking the permanent end of mit [14:30]
ascii_butugychag as a cultural institution. [14:30]
ascii_butugychag (sussman and abelson were the creators of scheme, authors of sicp, and taught the course) [14:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37500 @#64; 0.00056037 = 21.0139 BTC [+] {3} [14:32]
ascii_butugychag ;;google sussman cowardly surrender [14:34]
gribble Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python | Hacker News: ; Why Did M.I.T. Switch from Scheme to Python? | Hacker News: ; Video Shows Washington Cops Executing Fleeing Man - PINAC News: [14:34]
ascii_butugychag first link. [14:34]
phf there are slime backends for schemes, the one for mit/scheme locs 800, but probably includes inspect and support for restarts, which are not needed for poc [14:34]
phf i briefly looked at writing a backend for pre-shiva tinyscheme, but it lacks network ports [14:34]
ascii_butugychag phf: i have a patch for adding actual tcp to ts [14:34]
ascii_butugychag but imho this is not needed yet. [14:35]
ben_vulpes ascii_butugychag: these lisp tentacles are rather spiffy [14:35]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [14:36]
* adlai sets aside comint-mode, seems dead-end idea [14:36]
adlai !up ascii_butugychag [14:36]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [14:36]
phf is the approach to spin up thread/socket on trb side? current "telnet" could be extended to swank protocol [14:37]
phf adlai: contrib/swank-mit-scheme.scm [14:37]
ascii_butugychag phf: precisely what i did. see the code. [14:37]
ascii_butugychag current thing is useless for swank though because it spins up a fresh lisp for each connection [14:38]
ascii_butugychag this will have to be dealt with [14:38]
adlai phf: comint (and slime's maximal comfort zone) is for interacting with inferior processes that emacs spawn [14:38]
adlai `slime-connect` is a better starting point [14:38]
adlai slime's repl and inspector contribs are the most relevant bits [14:39]
phf adlai: i have no idea what you're trying to say [14:40]
adlai slime is a massive turd, most of which is totally irrelevant for shiva (unless bitcoin-os is planned to serve as yet another example of Greenspun's 10th) [14:41]
phf ok. [14:41]
ascii_butugychag adlai: satan forbid we use any code actually ~in~ slime !!11 [14:44]
ascii_butugychag was trying to describe the ~idea~ to n00bz. [14:44]
adlai the subset of "all slime functionality", which do seem to me relevant for shiva, are the repl (history, presentations), the fancy-inspector (designed for CLOS objects, might be neutered+mutated deal with C++), and perhaps sldb [14:44]
ascii_butugychag typing straight into a shell SUCKS [14:44]
adlai ascii_butugychag: sure, i'm taking slime-the-~idea~ and trying to "take away everything that doesn't look like an elephant" [14:44]
adlai to me, and i imagine to programmers who have done CL work recently, "slime" means a lot of things that you do NOT want [14:45]
* adlai also wanders off to eat [14:46]
ascii_butugychag adlai: to me it simply means 'i don't have to leave my editor and FUCK NO I AM NEVER pasting code into a motherfucking shell 10000000 time a day' [14:47]
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mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag> this will have to be dealt with << doesn't seem terribly hard. [14:49]
ascii_butugychag it is a little tricky [14:49]
ascii_butugychag because right now a lisp terminates if it loses its i/o pipe [14:49]
ascii_butugychag whereas a persistent lisp will need a reconnectable pipe and this will require surgery inside tinyscheme's intestines [14:50]
ascii_butugychag also it will need some means of restarting it if the repl is hosed [14:50]
mircea_popescu was just saying in principle, should be doable. [14:50]
ascii_butugychag doable yes. but in the same sense as the thing i just did, was doable. [14:50]
mircea_popescu right. [14:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13121 @#64; 0.00056042 = 7.3533 BTC [+] {2} [14:50]
BingoBoingo pre-collapse MIT nostalgia http://funcall.blogspot.com/2009/03/not-lisp-again.html [14:53]
assbot Abstract Heresies: Not Lisp again.... ... ( http://bit.ly/1PF9dnR ) [14:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41450 @#64; 0.00056174 = 23.2841 BTC [+] {4} [14:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48214 @#64; 0.00055527 = 26.7718 BTC [-] {4} [14:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85586 @#64; 0.00054357 = 46.522 BTC [-] {3} [14:58]
ascii_butugychag BingoBoingo: once you understand how scheme's tail call optimization works, you are well on your way to actually grasping the thing [14:59]
ascii_butugychag (if you have the patience, watch the films, even, they are interesting in a number of ways incl. historically) [14:59]
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BingoBoingo ascii_butugychag: I guess I got to now. Shiva represents first serious mega-weaponized divergence of trb from prb [15:01]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell danielpbarron please to point ms. peck (https://twitter.com/morgenpeck) to http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/letter-to-morgen-e-peck-january-29-2016.txt using all your grace and charm. cheers! [15:02]
gribble The operation succeeded. [15:02]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PFajQr ) [15:02]
phf i'm confused about how v presses. i thought it was along the shortest path, but it actually does topological sort and then works with resulting list. so if my topo is a b d c f and i ask to press c, then i get a b d c? [15:05]
ascii_butugychag BingoBoingo: not really divergence [15:05]
ascii_butugychag it's a laboratory instrument [15:05]
ascii_butugychag phf: correct [15:06]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [15:07]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ironically, consider the historical aspect. vc's strategic mistake to NOT submit early and well ensured that they don't have a voice at the one time it'd have mattered. now they're getting locked out of bitcoin, which means computing, and what'll mit do, switch back to scheme because THAT is what junior devs will need to get jobs ? [15:07]
shinohai !up ascii_butugychag [15:07]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [15:07]
mircea_popescu you can't switch back. once you've decided to take the hardwood floor and light your stove with it, you can't then decide to take stove ash and make a floor. [15:07]
ascii_butugychag ^ [15:08]
mircea_popescu and so... nobody could have foreseen all the way to chad. [15:08]
mircea_popescu phf yeah exactly. [15:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59150 @#64; 0.00054424 = 32.1918 BTC [+] {3} [15:10]
mircea_popescu the shortest path thing is not only premature optimization but also a very mangled sort of heuristic. [15:10]
mircea_popescu it DOES work for bitcoin (in blockchain terms it's "longest chain"), but altogether it's not clear WHY it works [15:10]
mircea_popescu (or even WHETHER it actually works. hence all the - equally unexamined and inept - prb derpage about "blessed" chains) [15:10]
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mircea_popescu that came in a few different flavours historically, and amusingly all unaware of their communion and unadressing it. [15:11]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388376 << lulz. /me wonders if this "would-be defendent" resides in tmsr~ [15:14]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 14:36:41; BingoBoingo: And the lolz roll on https://i.imgur.com/Q2X24B7.png [15:14]
phf if i have files a b and patches x y z, x is genesis, y does a->a', z does b->b', topo sort x z y. if i were to ask for y press, i also get z, whether i need it or not. conversly if i press z, i don't get y. [15:14]
punkman phf, my "shortest path" algo is to recursively find all antecedents of the patch I want to press. it's useful. [15:14]
mircea_popescu phf in the example you gave the implication is you NEED z. [15:15]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388373 << if you're syncing, try `-connect` [15:15]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 14:29:59; PeterL: my node is syncing, seemed to be getting tons of junk. I restarted it, using -addnode with the nodes from the wiki, seems to be going good again. [15:15]
mircea_popescu if you didn't need Z then y should have been x' [15:15]
mircea_popescu im sorry, i mean : if you didn't need y, then y should have been z'. [15:16]
phf so in the above example x y z are distinct patches, their effect is to take files through states, a, a', a". so if a patch takes a->a', then it needs a in genesis. if a patch takes a'->a" then it needs genesis and a->a' patch. i was trying to indicate that y and z modify two separate files, i'm trying to see what is there that indicates that state (a' b') is desirable over (a' b) [15:19]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388324 <<< the end point, of course, whether is obvious or not, is to fix the half-assed braindamage that are the coin scripts. [15:19]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 13:20:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388189 << i must say also that this is not why i wrote it, originally. this was an attempt at an online debugger, so i can interactively play with tx in mempool, issue db queries, etc. [15:19]
phf right now it seems like an artifact of topo sort [15:20]
mircea_popescu phf nothing in the physical situation as you describe it indicates that. nevertheless, the implicit meaning in how the topo sort owrks is that you need a to a' for b to b' to be meaningful. this could be because one is .h and the other .cpp, fopr instance, or becauise other stuff is coming later or for any other reason [15:21]
mircea_popescu because people didn't make both y and z first level nodes of x, people are indicating that whether you know why or not, you need a->a' for b->b'. [15:21]
mircea_popescu nothing of course prevents you from taking z and rebasing it as a first level node off x. [15:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @#64; 0.00055788 = 15.3975 BTC [+] [15:24]
phf a way to indicate (a->a' b->b') would normally be to include them both in a single patch. i think that's how it's done now [15:24]
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mircea_popescu yes but we for very good reason do not want multi-issue patches. [15:25]
mircea_popescu so in full terms, i would say that again, including both in the same patch is both premature optimization and a kludge. [15:25]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388495 << 'rat9' is ~c$170... [15:25]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 16:06:03; thestringpuller: how you gonna sell a mouse for 60 bucks [15:25]
mircea_popescu just, in a metaprogramming sense that did not exist prior to V putting light on the issue. [15:25]
mircea_popescu at least afaik. [15:25]
ascii_butugychag pete_dushenski: rat9 suxx, you can have mine for the cost of postage [15:26]
ascii_butugychag fuicking nonstandard crud [15:26]
ascii_butugychag won't function reliably on any linux box. [15:26]
pete_dushenski ascii_butugychag: nor on osx 10.6 ! [15:26]
pete_dushenski i have one. it's for sale on local classifieds [15:26]
ascii_butugychag pete_dushenski: supposedly there is an x11 patch to make it go [15:27]
ascii_butugychag but i just can't be arsed [15:27]
mircea_popescu polarbeard : [15:28]
mircea_popescu . i'm with punkman in that if you're going to prefix in that much detail, there's going to have to be some sort of filtering scheme. i'm not with him that flags are the solution, it just seems an ad-hoc hack unix did that got carried forward. i'm still partial to my multi-logfiles idea, fwiw. altogether a lot more thought must be put into "how to structure" this, but sadly it depends on a fully specified bitcoin, so it [15:28]
mircea_popescu 's just going to have to tandem for a while. [15:28]
mircea_popescu . i'm with ben_v (and apparently ascii too) in that it's really best practice to make patches small and issue-focused. it's not just a matter of review, it's to ease future rebasing and so on. as antidesign it may seem to you personally on the basis of workflow, this is one of those things where individual has to take a small step back to allow society altogether to exist. [15:28]
mircea_popescu so plox, restate that as a chain. [15:28]
pete_dushenski ascii_butugychag: nor i. rat9 looked spiffy but chewed through swappable battery in ~5 hours. even when 'worked' it twitched and jumped and spasmed and triggered all kinds of inane shit. couldn't even highlight menu bar drop-downs. [15:29]
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mircea_popescu you two made me google that damned thing. seriously, a mouse ? [15:31]
ascii_butugychag i got one as a gift from an old chum [15:31]
punkman mircea_popescu: so how would you split polarbeard's patch? [15:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136500 @#64; 0.0005443 = 74.297 BTC [-] {5} [15:31]
ascii_butugychag it is heavy, metal, has screws and ratchets for adjustment, etc. [15:31]
ascii_butugychag looked spiffy [15:31]
ascii_butugychag but then i plugged it in... [15:31]
mircea_popescu punkman the rotating log fix separate from the rest, for one thing. [15:31]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: it bothered me that polarbeard apparently does not yet fully grasp that every line he writes is a unit of ~work~ for other people to do. [15:32]
ascii_butugychag hard work. [15:32]
mircea_popescu there's a lot of stuff in there that will necessarily result in a huge patch (the guy is stuck, willy-nilly, doing a lot of [15:32]
mircea_popescu - return error("CBlock::WriteToDisk() : ftell failed"); [15:32]
mircea_popescu 1601 + return error(SBLK "failure wrting block file %d to disk due invalid stream position", nFileRet); [15:32]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: the patch ended up being a bit verbose, yep, but it made sense to me fixing the messages as I was adding metadata, that's why I didn't add filtering, to not add actual logic to an already pretty big patch [15:32]
mircea_popescu which is VERY commendable. [15:33]
mircea_popescu but it's also immense and should all be one single patch so we can see it more readily. [15:33]
ascii_butugychag the way to reduce the work is to NOT DISRUPT FLOW [15:33]
ascii_butugychag 1 kind of thing - must be together [15:33]
mircea_popescu polarbeard yeah, you get the right idea, but seriously, making a single patch consisting of JUST -return error +return error is the right way [15:33]
ascii_butugychag so i can ask the same question, line after line, for a whole patch [15:33]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag has a good rule of thumb there. [15:33]
polarbeard also I thought you can dump to console and grep until we reach consensus on how we want to do the actual log splitting and filtering [15:34]
mircea_popescu note that the only way i got my apparently very controversial /s /t patch to even be considered was showing how it could be machined. [15:34]
mircea_popescu polarbeard that part is fine, yes. [15:34]
mircea_popescu note however you should dump to file not to console. because otherwise mess of tee's [15:34]
polarbeard mess of tees? [15:35]
mircea_popescu yes, if you just dump into console i'm going to have to pipe the program throuygh a bunch of different greps [15:35]
punkman polarbeard: the thing usually runs as a daemon [15:36]
polarbeard oh no, just one and one tee [15:36]
mircea_popescu depends how many greps i want lol. [15:36]
polarbeard xargs -I'@#64;' sh -c 'echo "@#64;" |cut -d" " -f1,3- | tee $(echo "@#64;" | cut -d" " -f2)' [15:36]
polarbeard for the priority [15:36]
polarbeard one field forward for the category, if you want both then yes, more piping [15:36]
mircea_popescu the point is that people running bitcoind have a whole array of measures, which mostly work as cat logfile | mess [15:37]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [15:37]
mircea_popescu or whatevs, tail logfile | mess for teh realtime stuff [15:37]
adlai AdrianG ahmed_ aknix Alopex alphonse23_ amiller_ Anduck Apocalyptic artifexd ascii_butugychag asciilifeform assbot Azelphur [15:37]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [15:37]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [15:37]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [15:37]
polarbeard yeah, I understand people don't want to run rube-goldberg machines [15:37]
thestringpuller In other DERP, gavin apparently didn't read the hard fork missile crisis: http://gavinandresen.ninja/minority-branches [15:38]
polarbeard I'm open to suggestions but now I'm a bit saturated of this, I'll somewhere else for some days... [15:39]
polarbeard *look [15:39]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: one of the items i have in mind for shivafication is sane event logging [15:39]
ascii_butugychag (who/what/where/when etc) [15:39]
polarbeard punkman: yes, the rube-goldberg pipe was inteded to be used as a nohup'd tail on debug.log [15:41]
thestringpuller "And minoritycoins will be worth much less than majoritycoins, because they are worse in every practical way. They take longer to confirm, fewer people accept them for payment, they are protected by less hash power, and they are much more difficult to transact safely." << Not if majority coin is sunk early on and money flees to minority coin. What "actual" economists is this d00d hanging out with that "vetted his scaling propos [15:45]
mircea_popescu polarbeard don't get this wrong, you did a lot of very useful work in that patch. [15:49]
mircea_popescu the best way forward, imo, is to restructure it as 1) one large patch consisting of nothing but the return fixes and some smaller patches doing the rest of the stuff built on top of that. [15:49]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller minority coins may be "worse in every practical way", but they are BETTER in the only way that matters : minority doesn't inflate, majority does. [15:50]
mircea_popescu THIS is how bitcoin, the "minority coin" par excellence, kicked fiat's teeth in. [15:50]
mircea_popescu and this is how bitcoin will continue to kick the teeth in of any sort of fiat, no matter how superficially bitcoinized. [15:50]
mircea_popescu specifically because "majority is better than minority in every practical way" except the one way that actually matters, which the majority is never willing to confront. [15:51]
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danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388847 << done https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/693136384710840321 [15:51]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 18:01:06; pete_dushenski: ;;later tell danielpbarron please to point ms. peck (https://twitter.com/morgenpeck) to http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/letter-to-morgen-e-peck-january-29-2016.txt using all your grace and charm. cheers! [15:51]
pete_dushenski danielpbarron: you're the best :D [15:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @#64; 0.00056045 = 25.5565 BTC [+] {2} [15:52]
mircea_popescu polarbeard make sense ? [15:53]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: yep, will come back with a task-unified group of patches [15:53]
mircea_popescu ty. [15:54]
polarbeard np [15:54]
mircea_popescu i'm slowly discovering what an IMMENSE help to debugging and code maintenance this thematic unity thing is, incidentally. [15:55]
mircea_popescu jesus god how did people manage codebases pre v. [15:55]
polarbeard usually there is a lot of blind trust involved [15:55]
polarbeard I appreciate this way though [15:55]
ascii_butugychag with raw walrus skins, and bare teeth [15:55]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: note how i cut the shiva patch in 2 [15:57]
ascii_butugychag for thematic unity [15:57]
mircea_popescu aha. [15:57]
ascii_butugychag (i.e. part 1 can be mechanically-litmused: 'this only adds the ts genesis material') [15:57]
mircea_popescu anyway, re the other point : even if scheme does in the end become an integral part of sane error management a) his work is very important for providing the structure that'll illuminate that and b) will prolly be mostly reused strings in different wrapping anyway. [15:57]
mircea_popescu so there's no conflict there. [15:58]
pete_dushenski bbl [15:58]
ascii_butugychag i see nothing wrong with cleaning up classical error handlers, etc, so long as it is done in line with the flow principle described earlier. [15:59]
ascii_butugychag (and questions like 'is this ONLY a format change' ought to be answerable mechatronically) [15:59]
mircea_popescu well i'm not willing to stake on that, because what the fuck do you know we'll discover. but at least as an expected ideal, yeah. [15:59]
ascii_butugychag the overall idea i am trying to teach is that anybody changing a line of trb ought to be mindful of the work this creates for others [16:00]
ascii_butugychag and respect the worth of the time. [16:00]
ascii_butugychag i originally did not publish the thing that is now shiva because i was not comfortable with asking friends to read 5,000 lines of tinyscheme. [16:01]
ascii_butugychag and still not sure if anyone will do it [16:01]
ascii_butugychag properly digesting c crud is heavy work. [16:01]
punkman we need a reading guide [16:02]
deedbot- [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Letter to Morgen E. Peck, freelance writer - http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/29/letter-to-morgen-e-peck-freelance-writer/ [16:03]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag this harkens back to such a more lovely time in the computer lab. [16:04]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388601 << /me is astonished this needed articulating [16:06]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 16:35:23; mircea_popescu: actually that's the first time someone brought a cogent, well thought out objection to the classic "programmers wanna play and so ruin productivity spending moe time on tools than the tools save" thing [16:06]
mircea_popescu why ? [16:06]
ben_vulpes imagine you have to wait for your cane to become useful for a minute randomly during a beating [16:06]
mircea_popescu in other spuriously articulated news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/dd1de06b21cc8b41a66decb40820dda3/tumblr_nwspbs40Ru1uo6eclo1_1280.jpg [16:06]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PYXbpL ) [16:06]
ben_vulpes you'd probably snap the thing in half [16:07]
mircea_popescu or keep one running at all times, or or or. [16:07]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [16:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @#64; 0.00054645 = 11.5301 BTC [-] [16:08]
mircea_popescu punishment doesn't necessarily have to be a spur of a moment thing, i'm not training dogs. [16:08]
ben_vulpes no - /in session/. [16:08]
ben_vulpes running cane - demands pause. [16:08]
mircea_popescu i'd prolly end up with multiple timed canesa [16:08]
ben_vulpes programming similarly is not a supur of the moment. [16:08]
mircea_popescu like old style shooters [16:08]
ben_vulpes spur* of the moment exercise. [16:09]
mircea_popescu have a girl on the side to reload 'em [16:09]
mircea_popescu sounds like actually an improvbement over current caning best practices. [16:09]
* Linus_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [16:09]
ben_vulpes but the w4ste! [16:09]
ben_vulpes a whole gurl just to supply extra canes in case yours hangs?! [16:09]
mircea_popescu hey, the whole thing's predicated on productive waste. [16:09]
mircea_popescu that what female enslavement is all about in the first place. [16:09]
ben_vulpes just wait the thirty seconds randomly five times per event, having a spare on hand will never pay off. [16:10]
mircea_popescu like any other intellectual endeavour to date. [16:10]
mircea_popescu it does pay off because of teh social roles. [16:10]
ben_vulpes the fifteen second interruption has mega cognitive costs. [16:10]
mircea_popescu this is what he said. [16:10]
ben_vulpes it is the hole through which distraction slips in and focus dribbles out. [16:11]
ben_vulpes automation is productive waste. [16:11]
ben_vulpes it was inadequately articulated for my taste. [16:11]
ben_vulpes and deserves more of a place in the lgos. [16:11]
ben_vulpes anyways. [16:11]
mircea_popescu all the shit you boys do just to get to pretend like you don't need any adhd meds. [16:13]
mod6 ok folks, my build succeeded with the changes to moving V outside of the rotor directory. [16:13]
mod6 here are my changes, please review and try this out: [16:13]
mod6 http://dpaste.com/2WQCDKX.txt [16:13]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PYY6GB ) [16:13]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [16:14]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [16:14]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [16:14]
mod6 you just need to create a .wot dir and place keys in there, then (in the same directory do this): `./build-bitcoind-v99996.sh` [16:15]
hanbot oh hey. mod6, i'm ezbake-ovening that now! [16:16]
mod6 the one I just posted? [16:18]
ascii_butugychag http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388982 << how's that [16:18]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 19:02:40; mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag this harkens back to such a more lovely time in the computer lab. [16:18]
ascii_butugychag mod6: neato! [16:19]
ascii_butugychag i confess that i've been using my ancient vtron. but will prolly switch to mod6's industrial-strength one very soon [16:19]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag you know, "thinking of the work this means". [16:20]
hanbot mod6> the one I just posted? << yeah [16:20]
mod6 hanbot: ok awesome. let me know how it goes. [16:20]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: ah! [16:20]
hanbot will do [16:20]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: do you recall the article you wrote about the meaning of money ? [16:20]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388379 << lmao that is pretty much the picture-perfect image of what makes any lawyer retch. [16:20]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 14:41:47; BingoBoingo: In other feelings https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1343716.msg13712823#msg13712823 [16:20]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag aha [16:21]
ascii_butugychag the one about what jobs you were willing to take when you were a consultant [16:21]
ascii_butugychag so... that. [16:21]
mircea_popescu yeah but it folk's been whores for so many years now... [16:21]
ascii_butugychag whores come in 10,001 breeds [16:21]
mircea_popescu this is also true. [16:21]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388381 << dude writing that formed his ideas about the world watching cheap tv entertainment. "chinese" is this sole guy, very polite, slanty eyes. [16:22]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 14:42:20; PeterL: are chinese miners some sort of unit that all must act together? [16:22]
mod6 trinque shinohai ben_vulpes polarbeard & anyone else who wants to test the new V & buildscript [v99996]: http://dpaste.com/2WQCDKX.txt [16:22]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PYY6GB ) [16:22]
ascii_butugychag i just brought a set of sparse matrices to orgasm, for instance [16:22]
mircea_popescu in what notation ? [16:23]
ascii_butugychag buncha gmp calls, in c. [16:23]
* trinque tips hat to mod6 [16:23]
mircea_popescu what, no pagelong paranthesises ? [16:23]
ascii_butugychag at the other end of the sausage-maker - precisely them [16:23]
ascii_butugychag perhaps when mircea_popescu wrote 'it folks have become whores' he was thinking of 'crack whore' [16:24]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388394 << current wisdom is mere dos through resource exhaustion [16:25]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 14:55:07; trinque: there is a kiss of death for btcd which halts it in its tracks, does not crash. [16:25]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag i just meant they've been living in a particular half-world for a while now. [16:25]
mircea_popescu wasn't the case pre-gates, say. [16:25]
trinque I... have it on a restart cron job... and I feel dirty. [16:25]
ascii_butugychag trinque: how come you're using heathen bitcoinatron, again ? [16:25]
mircea_popescu he is ? [16:25]
ascii_butugychag btcd [16:25]
ascii_butugychag is a heathen thing, in heathen tongue [16:26]
mircea_popescu trbtcd neh ? [16:26]
trinque am waiting for that one to sync [16:26]
ascii_butugychag nah iirc he is actually using a product called btcd, by one conformal co. [16:26]
mircea_popescu o wait, the java one one or w/e it was ? [16:26]
ben_vulpes it looked better than prb back in the day [16:26]
trinque golang [16:26]
ben_vulpes "go" [16:26]
mircea_popescu right. back in the day it was actually more promising [16:26]
mircea_popescu i even said this at some point. [16:26]
ben_vulpes as did i [16:26]
ben_vulpes http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/08/28_conformal-are-the-real-bitcoin-core-devs.html [16:26]
ascii_butugychag when just about any alternative to prb looked spiffy [16:26]
assbot Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ts4dZA ) [16:26]
mircea_popescu they failed to do anything with that advantage tho [16:26]
ben_vulpes their blog has even gone to spamseed [16:27]
mircea_popescu well other than get bogged down in / give a shit about inept nonsense being thrown their way. [16:27]
mircea_popescu not having leader sheep sucks. [16:27]
trinque yep, I have a ticket open to have an SSD put in my new box,b ut am awaiting response from the (disappointing) new DC [16:27]
mircea_popescu lol kink shaming [16:28]
mircea_popescu bash'd. [16:28]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388410 << or that satoshi said a bunch of dumb shit, a fact both obvious to the naked eye and plainly admitted by the repentant perpetrator himself. [16:30]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 15:08:20; thestringpuller: the problem here is I doubt satoshi had any idea how visa and traditional payment systems scaled in comparison to bitcoin. [16:30]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388421 << of course nothing would prevent us at this stage to take either gnudiff or any shell diff, gut it, make it into proper vdiff and forget they ever existed. [16:32]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 15:38:47; ascii_butugychag: i suppose this is when i restate my rage at the idiocy of gnudiff [16:32]
mircea_popescu o wait. [16:32]
mircea_popescu whoa mom, check me out, i made it through yet another day of these here kiloline logs! [16:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158500 @#64; 0.00056045 = 88.8313 BTC [+] {4} [16:36]
mircea_popescu Slashdot Media, which owns the popular websites SourceForge and Slashdot, has been sold to SourceForge Media, LLC, a subsidiary of web publisher BIZX, LLC << o check it out, moar spam. [16:37]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: what i want is not a gutted corpse of gnudiff, but a turing-complete vtron [16:37]
mircea_popescu aha [16:37]
ascii_butugychag where i can include arbitrary transforms. [16:38]
ascii_butugychag and i originally thought 'let's take & clean gnudiff' and barfed ten times. [16:38]
ascii_butugychag the whole shit soup toolchain needs to die [16:38]
ascii_butugychag and be cremated [16:38]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo that article is fucking epic. dude's so pointedly answering from a web-cattle farmer locus it's hysterical. [16:39]
mircea_popescu “Our plans for Slashdot include supporting the mission of Slashdot’s slogan, ‘news for nerds, stuff that matters,'” he said. “The site has millions of loyal users that visit and engage on the site each month, and we want to do the things necessary to keep Slashdot positioned as the best technology-centric news and discussion site on the web. We do not plan any radical changes, and will keep the opinions of th [16:39]
mircea_popescu e Slashdot user base in mind at all times.” [16:39]
mircea_popescu “Well, I’m not sure I completely agree that Slashdot is less vital these days or has lost its luster,” he replied. “It serves millions of unique viewers each month, which we think is pretty significant. [16:39]
ascii_butugychag wasn't it sold to spammers years ago?! [16:39]
mircea_popescu “We see the Slashdot community as a vibrant community made up of industry professionals and enthusiasts that are extremely passionate about tech, tech news and discussion, many of which have been active and engaged for over a decade,” he added. [16:39]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag how do you think it lost its luster. [16:40]
mircea_popescu just continuing down the road. [16:40]
mircea_popescu slash-dottie's first short skirt, slash-dottie's first drunken sexual encounter, slash-dottie's first gangbang, where's that pic of sharon stone [16:41]
ascii_butugychag slash-dottie's first shovel rape. [16:42]
ascii_butugychag ('turkish wedding' (tm) (r)) [16:42]
mircea_popescu http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GreenspunsTenthRuleOfProgramming << check out the lulz, incidentally. [16:44]
assbot Greenspuns Tenth Rule Of Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1PZ2h5u ) [16:44]
mircea_popescu "This is one of those things that seem true for those who have gotten spoiled by the windowing environment. The reason this can't be considered true is that at some point, you have to specify (or get down to) a ModelOfComputation, and the one most programmers use is simply different than LISP which is very different since it has no definition of MachineTypes?. See ConfusedComputerScience." [16:44]
mircea_popescu because MOST matters, in computing, right ? [16:44]
mircea_popescu it pays to re-read the classics. [16:44]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [16:45]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [16:46]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [16:46]
ascii_butugychag http://imgur.com/a/hMs4a << who wants to guess how this happened [16:49]
assbot wut - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1PZ35qS ) [16:49]
ascii_butugychag ^ failure of in-band signalling !11111111 [16:49]
phf you're trying to wire a latex renderer on top of logs? [16:50]
ascii_butugychag no [16:50]
ascii_butugychag definitely wasn't ~trying~ to end up like this [16:50]
mircea_popescu ahahaha what [16:50]
ascii_butugychag riddle - what kind of bug produced this. [16:50]
ascii_butugychag answer, of course, is that it wasn't a bug. [16:51]
ascii_butugychag just a graphical www browser with 'mathml' enabled. [16:51]
mircea_popescu seems a pretty weak convention [16:51]
mircea_popescu seriously, replace all "in" ? [16:51]
ben_vulpes (unrelated: www.northofreality.com/tales/2016/1/27/wealth-appreciation) [16:51]
mircea_popescu and all ./ ? [16:51]
ascii_butugychag in-band signalling (i.e. 'this magic sequence of characters anywhere in the text launches the rockets') suxxxx. [16:51]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: it wasn't 'ALL in' [16:52]
ascii_butugychag it was 'magic trigger and after it, replace...' [16:52]
ben_vulpes ascii_butugychag: unless it's the magic bits to dump the launch codes back down the pipe [16:52]
ascii_butugychag somehow this magic ended up in the html. [16:52]
phf i remember there was a pretty big stink when firefox was magic sequencing xml files as rss feeds years ago [16:53]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag would you stop trying to be cute. in band signalling is the only fucking signalling there is, until you invent telepathy. [16:53]
ascii_butugychag nope. [16:53]
mircea_popescu the discussion is whether you're an educated sort of dude with collapsed bands, or a barbarian needing "multiple" but somehow magically not infinity-many bands [16:53]
ascii_butugychag there is also 'what follows is N bits which will behave AS BITS' or 'what follows is M bits which are launch code.' [16:53]
mircea_popescu all bits are bits. [16:53]
ascii_butugychag yes but the fundamental debate is about how to interpret. [16:54]
mircea_popescu consider the epic failuire of private messages to gather import or relevance in the trb and you;'ll have a fine illustration of why multiband is retarded. [16:54]
ascii_butugychag is it 'magic code can come ~any time~' or 'magic code specified in WELL-DEFINED place' [16:54]
mircea_popescu there is no shortcut to resolve the interpretation conundrum. [16:54]
ascii_butugychag there is, however, the ample retardation of the 'any time' variant. [16:55]
mircea_popescu "i know what he said, but what did he MEAN by it ?" [16:55]
ascii_butugychag i do not WANT any-time. [16:55]
ascii_butugychag it sucketh, verily. [16:55]
mircea_popescu and yet you live with my http://40.media.tumblr.com/a7c31291784cf43ac59f955ff09e5403/tumblr_n0kf5fJB9I1tq04mso1_1280.jpg links just fine. [16:55]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PZ3SZ3 ) [16:55]
ascii_butugychag these - behave. [16:55]
mircea_popescu how so ? they pop in at any time [16:55]
mircea_popescu just like their unruly, ill behaved irl counter... parts. [16:56]
ascii_butugychag i'm on a console term [16:56]
mircea_popescu AHA! [16:56]
mircea_popescu so YOU fixed your broken interpretatron! good. [16:56]
mircea_popescu now do that universally. [16:56]
ascii_butugychag i can only do that here because no math in the chan [16:56]
mircea_popescu not so. [16:57]
ascii_butugychag when collaborating mathematically, i am stuck with MOTHERFUKING chalkboards [16:57]
ascii_butugychag yes. [16:57]
mircea_popescu i like boards so much im actually going to buy one just for slavegirl training. [16:57]
mircea_popescu it also pleases me no end some of teh womenz have reached that pinnacle of intellectual achievement where one's needed. [16:58]
ascii_butugychag srsly? [16:58]
mircea_popescu yup. [16:58]
ascii_butugychag whatcha teaching'em [16:58]
ascii_butugychag analysis? [16:58]
mircea_popescu hey, best part of physics lab was the blackboard imo [16:58]
mircea_popescu ah, mno, gotta be one to see the curricula :D [16:58]
ascii_butugychag l0lok [16:58]
* ascii_butugychag pictures chalkboard with parts of kalash diagrammed [16:59]
mircea_popescu blackboard is a thing of thought. what's on it, less important. [16:59]
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ascii_butugychag incidentally mircea_popescu will be very pleased to learn that over here we have crappy ersatz american non-chalky boards [16:59]
ascii_butugychag with ink markers [16:59]
mircea_popescu i can actually live with those. [16:59]
mircea_popescu they're not terribru. better colors. [17:00]
ascii_butugychag one can buy reduced-stink markers [17:00]
mircea_popescu lol i always wondered why us highschoolers didn't get into toluene huffing [17:00]
ascii_butugychag but i find that there is something palpably... unmathematical, about 'whiteboards' [17:00]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: who said they didn't [17:00]
mircea_popescu lower perceived resistence of the medium ? [17:00]
ascii_butugychag i still remember the whanging headaches i got just from sitting in front row [17:00]
mircea_popescu it's mathematical alright, just i guess unsatisfying for a wholly unrelated biological cue [17:00]
mircea_popescu anyway. the value of the blackboard is a sort of peripheral remanence of summary. [17:01]
ascii_butugychag incidentally, ever use a 'boogie board' ? [17:01]
ascii_butugychag i really wish they came in full man size [17:01]
mircea_popescu actually, there's a cartoon of all thiongs that best illustrates what a blackboard is as a device of thought. lemme see if i can fish it out [17:01]
mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsyJX3sESjs << that! [17:02]
assbot Animaniacs - The ACME Song - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1PZ4IVG ) [17:02]
ascii_butugychag ('boogie' is an a5-sized slate thing that changes colour from pressure, and has a button, press and it erases to black. runs on tiny watch battery.) [17:04]
thestringpuller you've watched the animaniacs [17:04]
* ascii_butugychag watched, when came to usa [17:04]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag srsly, watch that vid. [17:04]
mircea_popescu ah [17:04]
ascii_butugychag and i saw it again too when mircea_popescu linked it 1st time [17:04]
mircea_popescu :p [17:04]
mod6 hanbot: everything going ok? is it building or, having any hangups/questions? [17:06]
danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389021 << i was going to suggest this but figured i'd keep reading logs to see if someone beat me to it :D [17:08]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 19:13:35; mod6: you just need to create a .wot dir and place keys in there, then (in the same directory do this): `./build-bitcoind-v99996.sh` [17:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4741 @#64; 0.00054581 = 2.5877 BTC [-] {2} [17:10]
mod6 thanks danielpbarron -- hey please give this a try if you can. I figured that you might be a good one to simplify the steps and up date the wiki as soon as we get some confirmation that all is good with the script [17:11]
mod6 and upon a few others successfully building, trinque, can you work your magic with deedbot and place that guy in there so its like deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-v99996K.sh or whatever? [17:12]
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phf so we have files a, b and patches x, y, z. x is genesis. y is a->a'. z is a'->a" b->b'. the way v connects the graph is x-y x-z y-z, i.e. patches that have hunks that share state for a file in before and after are connected. it is explicitly not a transition graph, which would be x-y y-z (since you can't apply z on top of x without first applying y)? [17:14]
mircea_popescu i guess it would be a transition graph, at least in most cases. [17:15]
mircea_popescu why do you ask ? [17:15]
mircea_popescu note that (as per discussion today and intention throughout) your z should really be stated as z1 a' -> a'' ; z2 b -> b' [17:16]
mircea_popescu this remains true even if we go from a, b being files to them being blocks, or themes, or other reasonable division. [17:16]
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* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [17:17]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [17:17]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [17:17]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [17:17]
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phf i remember ascii suggesting that perhaps we should stick to one hunk per patch, but that's not the case right with existing patches. if z thematically needs to touch two different files (a and b), then both modifications are inside a single patch [17:18]
mircea_popescu that situation may occur, and it is a signal that the way code is split into files is broken and needs fixing, i guess. [17:18]
mircea_popescu but this line is i suppose not germane to your inquiry so let's let it be. [17:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25720 @#64; 0.00054369 = 13.9837 BTC [-] [17:19]
phf i think it's relevant, but i need to reflect how. fwiw right now there's a bunch of vpatches that modify multiple files at the same time [17:21]
ascii_butugychag phf: the idea is that those are semantically related [17:21]
ascii_butugychag and don't want to be dealt with separately [17:21]
ascii_butugychag the reason why i once suggested breaking up all patches into atomic patchons is that right now we have a stricter than necessary dependency flow [17:22]
mircea_popescu phf well yes but using v as an ideal object vs using v as applied to the world's most patently deranged pile of cathair and wet noodles. [17:23]
mircea_popescu i don't think you can find anyone who both read bitcoin source and thinks the file split is sane. [17:23]
ascii_butugychag i thought he was speaking of vpatches [17:24]
mircea_popescu for that matter the level of abstraction displayed justifies the use of MAYBE three files, otherwhise it really looks like the guy wrote the whole thing on one scroll so to speak. [17:24]
phf ascii_butugychag: i am speaking of vpatches, i'm starting to grok that mp is speaking at a different level of abstraction [17:25]
mircea_popescu did we get lost ? [17:25]
mircea_popescu were you talking about ml elements or something ? [17:25]
hanbot say mod6 (or whoever else knoweth), given keys in .wot dir are to be named by wot identity a la mod6, what am i to name korsgaard's key, since he's not in wot? [17:25]
mircea_popescu try just korsgaard [17:26]
mod6 place that key on your gnupg keyring via --import [17:26]
mircea_popescu mod6 no but she needs to name the file something [17:26]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> try just korsgaard << i guess you could try this [17:26]
ascii_butugychag keyring?!! [17:26]
mircea_popescu yeah how are keyrings involved in v again ? [17:27]
ascii_butugychag in no way! [17:27]
phf we've been through this [17:27]
mod6 only in the context of verifying the packages signatures [17:27]
ascii_butugychag FUCK keyrings. [17:27]
mod6 this is basically outside of V [17:27]
ascii_butugychag it is a gpg atavism [17:27]
mircea_popescu mod6 ah that yeah. [17:27]
phf v is used to press the source only, but there's a bunch of shit happening outside of v, including verifying some third party package signed by this korsgaard guy [17:27]
ascii_butugychag ah buildroot [17:27]
mircea_popescu yeah. [17:27]
hanbot oh so i don't actually need korsgaard's key in the .wot dir [17:28]
ascii_butugychag at some point it will have to become vtronic [17:28]
hanbot cool, ty [17:28]
mod6 hanbot: no, sorry this is confusing. [17:28]
mod6 ok gl,hf :] [17:28]
mircea_popescu all you should in the .wot atm is what's in the script, ie, [17:28]
mircea_popescu # Required Public Keys: [17:28]
mircea_popescu # 0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319 [17:28]
mircea_popescu # 0x17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7 [17:28]
mircea_popescu # 0x027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF [17:28]
mircea_popescu # 0xFC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4 [17:28]
mod6 these are public keys that you need in your keyring [17:29]
mircea_popescu uh [17:29]
mod6 to verify V, trinque's special patch, buildroot, and other stuff. [17:29]
mircea_popescu - # Required Public Keys: [17:29]
mircea_popescu + # You need to have these keys in your gpg keyring to vertify V, trinque's special patch, buildroot, and other stuff. [17:30]
mod6 I'll change the comment, standby. [17:30]
mircea_popescu maybe actually explicit the "Some stuff" [17:30]
mircea_popescu im sorry, other stuff. and i typo'ed verify. [17:31]
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kakobrekla what is the 'special patch'? [17:31]
mod6 http://dpaste.com/2H6H5Q6.txt [17:33]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NG1QLp ) [17:33]
phf mircea_popescu: anyway, i was speaking of how things are right now in v.py/v.pl. a hunk touches a file, hunks are grouped thematically (i.e. by a single unit of meaning) in a patch. a pairing of antecedent/descendent creates a graph and in combination with topo logical sort produces a press order [17:33]
mod6 kako: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150808/rotor-db-configure-fix_a955ba9174ccb17790dc9d7c1e2a61794a1c803d.patch [17:33]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NG1TqI ) [17:33]
mircea_popescu phf this is correct. [17:34]
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mircea_popescu kakobrekla iirc it was the bdb locks thing fix ? [17:34]
mircea_popescu ah nm, it was the x86 flag [17:34]
phf having multiple hunks in a patch modify several files at the same time creates a harder transition constraint then simple antecedent/descendent pairing, so i'm thinking it's probably safe to construct a graph in terms of transitions rather then purely a/d. the end result should be the same [17:34]
kakobrekla it brings me some satisfaction im not the only one confused [17:34]
mircea_popescu phf sounds right. [17:35]
ascii_butugychag phf: i ~would~ like to see a maximally-granular (split into patchons) version of mod6's flow graph [17:35]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla at some point it was discovered configure doesn't configure properly without --host=x86_64-linux given explicitly. [17:35]
phf (all this v talk past few days, i decided to sit down and grok, so Writin My Own V (tm)(c) at the moment) [17:35]
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mod6 as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand. [17:36]
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mircea_popescu phf this is worthy goal and a pretty effectual approach even if it doesn't get used for anything post-grok [17:36]
phf indeed [17:36]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: holy shit, shitgnomes are trying to pervert even greenspun's law ?!! [17:38]
mircea_popescu mod6 it's no good because it still doesn't explain WHERE they should go. it's ambiguous between .wot and keyring [17:38]
ascii_butugychag (grep earlier greenspun c2 link for 'refactor') [17:38]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag what are you, from a planet of shelf stable cheese, viande and laws ? [17:38]
mircea_popescu no, i read it. [17:38]
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mircea_popescu !up JPT [17:38]
-assbot- You voiced JPT for 30 minutes. [17:38]
* assbot gives voice to JPT [17:38]
ascii_butugychag brain - melts. [17:38]
mod6 mircea_popescu: ah, ok will fix. [17:38]
mircea_popescu gotta say, you know, "in keyring", save people a boggle. [17:39]
mod6 this better? [17:39]
mod6 # Required Public Keys to add to your PGP Keyring. This are used to verify V, rotor, buildroot, and trinque's patch: [17:39]
mod6 damnit [17:40]
mod6 # Required Public Keys to add to your PGP Keyring. These are used to verify V, rotor, buildroot, and trinque's patch: [17:40]
mircea_popescu yup [17:40]
mod6 ok :] [17:41]
mod6 http://dpaste.com/2VBF9V2.txt [17:41]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NG2ubM ) [17:41]
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ascii_butugychag http://imgur.com/rRWxCi3 << re: chalkboard thread. the one i have here. [17:44]
assbot Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/1NG2Gbf ) [17:44]
mircea_popescu you drew in those pixels by hand ?! [17:44]
ascii_butugychag censored crud [17:45]
ascii_butugychag (the thing that looks like arse cheeks was originally a dfa) [17:45]
ascii_butugychag the life of whoredom!111 [17:46]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [17:47]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [17:48]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [17:48]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> ah nm, it was the x86 flag << yeah. [17:49]
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mod6 hanbot: still having some probs? [18:02]
mod6 if you tried to build with this script, and something went wrong, which im pretty sure that it did, you need to blow everythign away (aside from your .wot dir and your keyring of course - have back ups! /me looks at people who blew away their keys) and start over. [18:03]
mod6 this thing doesn't play nice trying to run it more than one time with old artifacts laying around. [18:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51321 @#64; 0.00055271 = 28.3656 BTC [+] {3} [18:04]
hanbot not really. i've been fucking around trying to get bash to save public key block to file without detritus, giving up for now and just copypasting. i'll letcha know if it goes wrong, thanks for the cleanup note. [18:05]
mircea_popescu http://funcall.blogspot.com.ar/2009/03/not-lisp-again.html << actually this is splendid, as a narrative. esp the part about derivatives. [18:06]
assbot Abstract Heresies: Not Lisp again.... ... ( http://bit.ly/1NG4iSn ) [18:06]
mod6 hanbot: alrighty, thanks. sometimes if I don't hear anything, i just assume the worst. heheh. [18:06]
mod6 just want to make sure you're not stuck. [18:07]
* assbot removes voice from JPT [18:09]
shinohai http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/12127067/woman-says-she-is-a-cat-trapped-in-the-wrong-body.html <<< maybe she's single guys! [18:13]
assbot Woman says she is a cat trapped in the wrong body - she hisses at dogs, hates water and claims she can even see better at night - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1PKiW2x ) [18:13]
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pete_dushenski mod6: i have a question about the version string patch... i seem to have applied it correctly but i'm still seeing version "50400" even when trying the '-setvernum' command so i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong. this is a new instance that's in the process of syncing, not 'tevye', which properly shows '99999'. i used the original 99997k script and applied 'version-strings' and 'hearnificarum' manually and both are now [18:17]
pete_dushenski y patches directory. should i just wait until it syncs fully and build another rotor (with line 61 updated) or is there something else i can try ? [18:17]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39840 @#64; 0.00055138 = 21.967 BTC [-] {2} [18:19]
mod6 pete_dushenski: ok good q. shinohai had some issues with trying to set the value via the command line too - i haven't even tested this yet. [18:22]
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mod6 Now, with mine bitcoind, mine just comes up without setting any flags at all as 99999. so maybe try without any commandline flags first. [18:22]
mod6 but this needs to be investigated for sure. or maybe asciilifeform has some example we can follow? [18:23]
pete_dushenski iirc shinohai was seeing 99999 and was trying to change it to 99997 [18:23]
pete_dushenski whereas the stock 99997k.sh yields 50400, which is what i'm seeing. [18:24]
mod6 yeah, i dont know. i'd try building with the new v99996 script, and then see what happens. [18:24]
mod6 this is of value since I really haven't played with this on my own. perhaps log your results and post. [18:24]
mod6 in here if nothing else. [18:25]
mod6 here's that script again so you don't have to dig too far: http://dpaste.com/2VBF9V2.txt [18:25]
pete_dushenski cheers :D [18:26]
mod6 yup, thanks for your patience and willingness to work on this. [18:26]
pete_dushenski my pleasure [18:27]
shinohai YEs pete_dushenski and mod6 in my tests it didnt change. Haven't tried setting or doing anything else since then, just letting the node run. [18:28]
* shinohai wants to compile with the new patches posted last night to ml [18:28]
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BingoBoingo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388865 << My gut reaction is it is one persistent reddit user known in California Bitcoin circles so amazingly probably not [18:30]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [18:30]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 18:12:41; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388376 << lulz. /me wonders if this "would-be defendent" resides in tmsr~ [18:30]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379781 << so 'getinfo' will always show the same regardless ? [18:31]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 15:48:48; asciilifeform: mod6, shinohai: the version string patch works. BUT you will always see the default version in the boot log!! because said printf ~precedes~ the setting of the custom string. this may explain shinohai's confusion. [18:31]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: aha. [18:32]
pete_dushenski shinohai: let us know how it goes [18:32]
BingoBoingo I believe reddit user's first four characters are "paul" and can't bother spelling the rest because reddit. [18:32]
BingoBoingo But there could be others [18:32]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [18:33]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [18:33]
ascii_butugychag pete_dushenski: i was gonna point out the version string thing but you found it in the logz already. [18:33]
pete_dushenski i guess i just didn't really understand it [18:34]
mod6 so if i use -setvernum=99997 it'll show up in the log but not getinfo? [18:34]
ascii_butugychag it ought to show up in getinfo [18:36]
ascii_butugychag but NOT in the log. [18:36]
mod6 hmm. ok [18:36]
pete_dushenski that's odd because that's not what i'm seeing [18:37]
pete_dushenski but i don't discount that i bunged something up along the way [18:37]
shinohai I didn't get it in "getinfo" though myself. Still shows 99999 [18:37]
BingoBoingo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388986 << rattan ftw [18:37]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 19:05:23; ben_vulpes: imagine you have to wait for your cane to become useful for a minute randomly during a beating [18:37]
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pete_dushenski !up cazalla_ [18:37]
* assbot gives voice to cazalla_ [18:37]
ascii_butugychag shinohai: what command line params did you use ? [18:38]
cazalla_ thanks pete_dushenski! came to ask you something about cars actually! are the complaints i'm reading about CVT (noisy, blow up, are shit and to be avoided) legitimate? [18:38]
pete_dushenski o hey ! [18:39]
pete_dushenski i'd say that, by and large, that's a fair assessment of cvt transmissions : they're complex to repair and unintuitive to drive, in my experience [18:40]
cazalla_ looking at getting a toyota corolla, say 2011-2014 and most autos on the market are cvt, not 4spd auto and manuals seem few and far between : [18:40]
shinohai ascii_butugychag: LC_ALL=C nohup bitcoind -conf=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/ -setverstring=bitcoind -setvernum=99997 -logtimestamps -myip=127.0.0.1 -verifyall 2>&1 & [18:41]
pete_dushenski cazalla_: go with 2010 ;) [18:41]
cazalla_ pete_dushenski, any reason why? [18:41]
pete_dushenski just keep digging back into history until you're not swimming in shit, it's the b-a way ! [18:41]
pete_dushenski no reason for 2010 in particular, just earlier than 2011. corolla didn't always have cvt, so just... dig back [18:42]
cazalla_ fair call [18:42]
cazalla_ so many of the cvts around down under : [18:42]
cazalla_ i find something with full service history, low km and then.. cvt : [18:43]
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pete_dushenski cazalla_: might be worth it to find an older car, higher km, just to avoid the cvt. then again, maybe you drive the cvt and don't mind it for the kind of routes you frequent, who knows [18:47]
ascii_butugychag anybody else suffer the same problem as shinohai ? [18:48]
ascii_butugychag anybody tested at all ? [18:48]
pete_dushenski ascii_butugychag: right here. same problem. [18:50]
pete_dushenski no change to version string after -setvernum command issued [18:50]
cazalla_ well, the hunt continues, thanks again pete_dushenski [18:51]
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shinohai I know the patch applied, because bitcoind -? shows it as an option [18:51]
pete_dushenski in other news, because dpaste mungs up files with '^M', 99996k can be found here : http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/99996K.txt [18:51]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PKm3aC ) [18:52]
mod6 pete_dushenski: ya, as soon as we get a couple of people confirming that v99996 builds for them correctly, we'll throw it into deedbot, but thanks! [18:52]
pete_dushenski humourously, wp wouldn't allow '.sh' to be uploaded for 'sekoority raisons' [18:52]
pete_dushenski mod6: mine's churning away as we speak ! [18:53]
mod6 nice! [18:54]
mod6 thanks for testing that out. [18:54]
* ascii_butugychag bbl [18:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @#64; 0.00055447 = 11.5884 BTC [+] {2} [19:00]
hanbot just want to make sure you're not stuck. << looks to be puttering along nicely for me, ftr. [19:05]
BingoBoingo In sideshow news, Tommy Chong endorsed Bernie Sanders. Hilary just can't win. [19:06]
shinohai LOL [19:07]
pete_dushenski in 'go' related nyooz, i spent some time talking to martin muller at the 'physics mixer' i attended last night. he's the associate research chair at the university of alberta in computing science and one of the leading researchers in monte carlo methods and the 'go' game. apparently this 'world-beating' research is happening right in my own very back yard ! [19:08]
phf asciilifeform: check it http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition.png [19:11]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLaiZW ) [19:11]
ben_vulpes nifty phf [19:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @#64; 0.00055805 = 7.0872 BTC [+] {2} [19:25]
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* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [19:25]
funkenstein_ neato [19:26]
funkenstein_ also related, turns out 樊麾 is a friend of a friend of a friend. word from that channel is there was no handicap in matches [19:26]
funkenstein_ "look at the statues, entirely different people." <-- it what things look like that's important? [19:29]
funkenstein_ anybody else's day ruined after watching that spineless nazi demo video? [19:29]
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deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $800 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1233/bitcoin-to-top-800-before-jul-2016/#b34 [19:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43950 @#64; 0.00055884 = 24.561 BTC [+] {2} [19:36]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ no cuz we don't watch videos! [19:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: check it http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition.png << p neat, but why is the shiva stuff connected ? [19:38]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLaiZW ) [19:38]
mircea_popescu oh, he rebased it did he [19:38]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ well the question of identity and image is too complex to carry out in the margins of that example huh. [19:39]
mircea_popescu and re the games : are they published anywhere ? best way to sort this entire mess [19:39]
mircea_popescu nfi why the ORIGNAL announcement wasn't "here's the games!" [19:40]
mircea_popescu but instead had to be meta-meta bs about who did what to whom and what it supposedly means. [19:40]
pete_dushenski http://arxiv.org/pdf/1511.06410.pdf << 'better computer go player with neural network and long-term prediction' [19:43]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1RRC0fg ) [19:43]
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pete_dushenski mod6: 99996k built and running. back to scarfing blocks. should be synced early next week. [19:47]
pete_dushenski version string now shows '99999' too [19:48]
pete_dushenski as one would expect ! [19:49]
fluffypony best military manual ever: http://liw.iki.fi/liw/misc/MIL-C-44072C.pdf [19:50]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1RRCeTD ) [19:50]
pete_dushenski in other nyooz, this shit's going to the supreme court of canada (at least it had better) : http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/spanking-over-nude-snapchat-photo-leads-to-assault-conviction-for-parents-1.3424108 [19:52]
assbot 'Spanking' over nude Snapchat photo leads to assault conviction for parents - British Columbia - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1RRCjXw ) [19:52]
deedbot- [Qntra] Article On Swedish Murder Censored In Sweden - http://qntra.net/2016/01/article-on-swedish-murder-censored-in-sweden/ [19:52]
pete_dushenski summary : parents hit daughter with skipping rope and plastic hockey sticks, WHICH LEFT MARKS OMG, because fillie was caught sexting and chose this punishment over being grounded. parents were then not only charged but CONVICTED of assault by provincial court. [19:53]
pete_dushenski not like this retardation is sustainable, so enjoy prosecuting jaywalking and other trivial non-crimes, canada, enjoy it while you still have oil and trees and fish as slaves to make 'everyone' worthy of due process. [19:55]
* assbot gives voice to diametric [19:55]
diametric pete_dushenski: the article i read didn't say marks, but specifically lacerations. [19:56]
pete_dushenski "It came to the attention of police when the daughter showed bruises on her buttocks to two of her girlfriends, who in turn reported what they had seen to the school principal." << [19:56]
diametric deep bruising and lacerations, as in they were beating her severely enough to cause bleeding. [19:56]
pete_dushenski oh no ? [19:56]
punkman "To suggest that responding to such acts by a teenaged daughter (14 going on 15 years), by spanking her with an object, would be educative or corrective, is simply not believable or acceptable by any measure of current social consensus." << indeed, gotta encourage the nudes :P [19:56]
diametric not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point. [19:57]
pete_dushenski punkman: i wanted to cry for the world i'm bringing my children into when i read 'current social consensus'. then i remembered that you have to get caught first ! [19:57]
pete_dushenski and if you're caught, that you can't afford the best lawyers ! [19:58]
pete_dushenski and that if that's still not good enough, that you wouldn't burn the court house to the ground and piss on the ashes ! [19:58]
punkman pete_dushenski: might be cheaper to just move [19:58]
pete_dushenski if i got up and moved everytime idiots were idiots, i'd live on the moon already. [19:59]
mircea_popescu mod6 your latest pressing away on a new system. will announce it and add to trb fleet once done. [20:00]
mircea_popescu heh just as i said that... [20:00]
mircea_popescu You must install 'bc' on your build machine [20:01]
mircea_popescu make: *** [core-dependencies] Error 1 [20:01]
punkman wha's bc? [20:01]
mircea_popescu apparently a calculator thing [20:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41050 @#64; 0.00056036 = 23.0028 BTC [+] {3} [20:02]
mircea_popescu what's the cannonical makeclean, rm -rf * in /rotor ? [20:03]
punkman https://micropurchase.18f.gov/ lol at the top two issues [20:05]
assbot Micro-purchase ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLgdyl ) [20:05]
TomServo It appears I'm somehow wedged at 252450 again. :( Just completed my first restart, so we'll see. [20:05]
punkman (not about buying 18yo females, no) [20:05]
punkman TomServo: did you adjust db locks? [20:05]
TomServo punkman: No, is that required if using the wiki build script? [20:06]
mircea_popescu Saving to: “/home/bitcoin/rotor/buildroot-2015.05/output/build/.gcc-4.9.2.tar.bz2.GCAtsD/output” [20:06]
mircea_popescu motherfucker is buildroot huge. [20:07]
mircea_popescu TomServo yeah it's required if you want to sync, bdb as shipped with original btc croaks on larger blocks [20:07]
mircea_popescu (this is totally an isolated case and "scaling" bitcoin is totally safe guise, nevermind that nobody seriously tested this) [20:08]
punkman TomServo: depends when you built it [20:08]
danielpbarron diametric, so what if lacerations? have you seen some of the bdsm pics linked in here? [20:08]
TomServo punkman: I used build-bitcoind-99997K.sh, OS install and bitcoind build were on the 27th. [20:10]
mircea_popescu "To suggest that responding to such acts by a teenaged daughter (14 going on 15 years), by spanking her with an object, would be educative or corrective, is simply not believable or acceptable by any measure of current social consensus." << indeed, gotta encourage the nudes :P << rank nonsense. beatings are quite educative, in practice. [20:10]
mircea_popescu what "consensus" ? is this a consensus of the derps that never beat anyone nor have ever educated anyone ? [20:10]
mircea_popescu why not ask the fucking field mice then./ [20:10]
hanbot http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389355 << if this isn't already a standard example, anyone feel like talking me through this option jungle? (starting v99996 for the first time) [20:11]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 21:39:38; shinohai: ascii_butugychag: LC_ALL=C nohup bitcoind -conf=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/ -setverstring=bitcoind -setvernum=99997 -logtimestamps -myip=127.0.0.1 -verifyall 2>&1 & [20:11]
hanbot i mean is most of that for troubleshooting or is that what it takes each time? [20:11]
mircea_popescu punkman: i wanted to cry for the world i'm bringing my children into when i read 'current social consensus'. then i remembered that you have to get caught first ! << this is also rank nonsense , of the http://trilema.com/2014/the-idea-that-bitcoin-is-a-sovereign/#comment-116288 ilk [20:11]
assbot The idea that Bitcoin is a sovereign... on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLgO31 ) [20:11]
mircea_popescu ie, infantile delusions of sovereignity through "privacy". this doesn't work. sovereignity behaves publicly and with impunity. that is the fucking point. [20:12]
punkman hanbot, I think you don't need -conf if you have -datadir [20:12]
shinohai At minimum hanbot you need the -myip -conf and -datadir flags [20:12]
shinohai I may be wrong but it works for me [20:12]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype - http://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#b11 [20:12]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.10000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin block reward halving on or before 20 July 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1182/bitcoin-block-reward-halving-on-or-before-20/#b15 [20:12]
punkman what's LC_ALL=C do for bitcoind? [20:13]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: no debate. but if i'm sovereign, how can the polizei charge me ? what's next, arresting bahamas for health care insurance fraud ? [20:14]
mircea_popescu same way they can charge anyone. [20:14]
mircea_popescu suppose someone comes in here with proof you stole their shit. [20:15]
mircea_popescu you're charged alright. [20:15]
pete_dushenski but b-a [20:15]
pete_dushenski by* b-a [20:15]
hanbot punkman i gather some local issue arises otherwise eg http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-12-2015#1349988 [20:15]
assbot Logged on 22-12-2015 01:17:06; asciilifeform: LC_ALL="C" [20:15]
hanbot ty, same shinohai [20:15]
punkman shinohai: any reason you went with nohup instead of -daemon? [20:17]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: canuck polizei might charge rando 'religious couple' because xtians are bad mkay, but foreign ambassadors ? [20:17]
pete_dushenski not without a lot of political will [20:18]
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punkman pete_dushenski: did you start the canadian b-a embassy yet? [20:19]
pete_dushenski i'm just finalising the toilet design ;) [20:20]
shinohai Always have used it punkman no particular reason I guess :/ [20:20]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski didn't they kidnap the sitting fmi head over "charged" based on the testimony of a streetwalker that the us district attorney had paid to lie ? [20:20]
mircea_popescu and... well... nothing happened ? [20:21]
punkman hanbot, so if you don't use nohup, you can also get rid of the redirection at the end "2>&1 &" [20:21]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: sounds identical to the strauss-kahn set-up [20:21]
mircea_popescu that's because it is identical. [20:21]
danielpbarron my node (the one i started at the same time as Mircea) is still chugging along happily; now at height=367932 [20:21]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron just looked, mine was 368k or so [20:21]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: aha. [20:21]
danielpbarron neck and neck! [20:22]
danielpbarron and it's been going uninterrupted since more-or-less the beginning (i stopped and started it after the first few k blocks for some reason) [20:23]
shinohai Only time I have stopped mine is for upgrades. Otherwise it runs merrily along all day. [20:25]
mircea_popescu ftr mod6 : i ended up with two rotor.sh scripts, one under rotor the other under rotor/test2 [20:32]
mircea_popescu 1st one dies confusingly. [20:32]
mircea_popescu 2nd one seems to run ok [20:32]
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phf http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk [20:35]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLj5uV ) [20:35]
phf and the one ascii requested, transition graph for when there's only one hunk per patch file http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks-asplode.png (i filtered out all the genesis files that don't have further transitions) [20:42]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLjI7W ) [20:42]
phf actually that one seems to be buggy? there isn't any branching, they all are linear. hmm [20:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37500 @#64; 0.0005576 = 20.91 BTC [-] {6} [20:53]
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BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency FIRST!!! [21:02]
gribble Error: 'FIRST!!!' is not a valid currency code. [21:02]
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BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [21:03]
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gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 378.27, vol: 13543.66759622 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 382.724, vol: 8758.31056 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 377.49, vol: 62224.11038134 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 382.99, vol: 6.2435984 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 384.88072, vol: 79125.12340000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 379.91559, vol: 613.79457287 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 385.572769, vol: 50.78882564 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message) [21:03]
BingoBoingo ;;more [21:03]
gribble average: 381.403841153 [21:03]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --currency jpy [21:04]
gribble Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later. [21:04]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency jpy [21:04]
gribble Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 45800.3168, vol: 13547.40184749 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 46355.40976, vol: 8757.95763 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 46387.7488, vol: 6.2435984 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 46630.877384, vol: 79126.78360000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 45500.0, vol: 46.76868694 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 46698.41221, vol: 50.78882564 | Volume-weighted last average: 46495.7976395 [21:04]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb [21:08]
gribble BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2534.1, vol: 79113.51580000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2534.1 [21:08]
shinohai ;;ticker --market all --currency sweet young virgins [21:09]
gribble Error: 'sweet' is not a valid currency code. [21:09]
punkman ;;diff [21:11]
gribble 1.2003334065123697E11 [21:11]
punkman ;;diffchange [21:11]
gribble Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | None % based on data since last change | 11.54629 % based on data for last three days [21:11]
punkman bitfury's 40MW datacenter could do 600petahash with their 16nm chips [21:16]
BingoBoingo shinohai: It takes currency codes only so instead of "sweet young virgins" you gotta enter "cntvs" for "cunt, virgin sweet" [21:16]
shinohai ^^ [21:20]
funkenstein_ eh let captain kirk go where no man has gone before [21:24]
BingoBoingo https://i.imgur.com/l2oplLE.png?1 << No matter how much you try to appease hamplanets there's always that that's too fat. [21:24]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1UwaGB6 ) [21:24]
punkman ;;genrate [calc 12 * 1000 * 1000 * 1000] [21:28]
gribble The expected generation output, at 12000000000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 1.20033340651e+11, is 50.2766828319 BTC per day and 2.09486178466 BTC per hour. [21:28]
punkman ;;calc 50.27 * [avgprc USD 30d] [21:28]
gribble 20521.2194 [21:28]
punkman (12 petahash, aka one bitfury container thingie) [21:29]
punkman "16nm chips for total hashpower of 12PH/s, 1.5MW (rev1) or 16PH/s, 2MW (rev2)" [21:30]
punkman guess that 40MW-600phash calculation I saw in some comments somewhere might be off a bit [21:33]
BingoBoingo tumblr sex https://i.imgur.com/3bc9Yuh.jpg [21:35]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1UwbSEt ) [21:35]
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punkman 2mw per day at $0.15kwh ,,calc 48000 * 0.15 [21:38]
punkman ;;calc 48000 * 0.15 [21:38]
gribble 7200 [21:38]
danielpbarron heh the boy is touching himself [21:40]
shinohai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389517 <<< Sadly it seems everyone in America feels entitled to make manufacturers do as they wish. [21:47]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 00:23:19; BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/l2oplLE.png?1 << No matter how much you try to appease hamplanets there's always that that's too fat. [21:48]
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BingoBoingo In other news Qatar made a sports car http://www.arabgt.com/%D8%A7%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA/%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%AA/%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A9-elibreia-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%B7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%B0%D8%A8-%D8%AC%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D9%86%D8%AD%D9%88%D9%87%D8%A7 [21:53]
assbot سيارة Elibreia القطرية تجذب جميع الأنظار نحوها | ArabGT ... ( http://bit.ly/23z6Ltt ) [21:53]
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mod6 ok lemme try to answer some questions here... [22:08]
mod6 <+pete_dushenski> mod6: 99996k built and running. back to scarfing blocks. should be synced early next week. << ok awesome, glad you got it working [22:08]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> You must install 'bc' on your build machine << ah, ok. [22:09]
BingoBoingo Looks like fiat intends to declare war on Aedes aegypti and Aedes albopictus [22:10]
mod6 what's the cannonical makeclean, rm -rf * in /rotor ? << yeah, i would just blowaway the entire 'rotor' directory along with all the V stuff. the stuff that I would save is just the .wot dir, the keys contained therein, and of course, your ~/.gnupg stuff (ofc. have backups etc (this is for everyone who blew their keys away once)) : then totally restart the entire script. [22:11]
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mod6 <+mircea_popescu> ftr mod6 : i ended up with two rotor.sh scripts, one under rotor the other under rotor/test2 << yeah, if all goes well, you should ~only~ need to just execute the build script -- if you have to execute either of the rotor.sh scripts, then something went wrong. [22:12]
shinohai I just nuked my entire rotor directory on build machine every time I am doing an update [22:12]
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mod6 obviously this is not how we want things to be -- will be the main focus to be to get rid of the build script we're using today and move to a version of trinque's makefiles. [22:12]
mod6 it doesn't scale obviously for everyone to have these issues. for my own sanity, we need to make it so that a guy just basically does one thing and then it builds. [22:13]
mod6 no exceptions to this. [22:13]
mod6 so yeah, after the first, will be a main focus there -- all are encouraged to help me get to this goal. [22:13]
shinohai you have my support for as many hours of testing and reporting as needed. o7 [22:14]
mod6 <+hanbot> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389355 << if this isn't already a standard example, anyone feel like talking me through this option jungle? (starting v99996 for the first time) << so i think all that is really required here is `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=A.B.C.D -addnode=W.X.Y.Z &` [22:15]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 21:39:38; shinohai: ascii_butugychag: LC_ALL=C nohup bitcoind -conf=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/ -setverstring=bitcoind -setvernum=99997 -logtimestamps -myip=127.0.0.1 -verifyall 2>&1 & [22:15]
mod6 But it totally depends. It depends on if you have ~/.bitcoin available for your blockchain repo, or if its in a different place. [22:15]
mod6 if so you need to use -datadir= [22:15]
mod6 if you want to verify all signatures in a block; use -verifyall [22:16]
mod6 if you want to send btc and not get malleated, you may use: -lows [22:16]
mod6 if you want to connect to just a single node instead of many, use: -connect (instead of -addnode) [22:16]
mod6 if you have .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -- then you shouldn't need to use the flag: -conf [22:17]
mod6 for sure let me know if there are other ones that you wanna know about :] [22:17]
mod6 TomServo: ok, something very bad (tm) is happening on your end. [22:17]
mod6 Please, let's work together to discover what that might be. I'm worried that either V is failing on your side for some reason (it seems to not be pressing out the tree correctly) -- maybe you tried to build over an old build space, or who knows. [22:18]
mod6 But we should attempt to get to the bottom of this as soon as possible. [22:18]
mod6 There are steps that I can let you know about to walk you through setting this up and logging your every move so we can all discover what it is that isn't working on your end. Because I'd bet dollars to donuts that for somereason you are ending up with a super downlevel version of db.cpp -- which is why you're getting stuck on 252`450 [22:19]
mod6 thanks shinohai [22:20]
shinohai Ok my old Ubuntu server and the other Deb machine both built with the script pete_dushenski posted earlier [22:20]
mod6 ok sweet. that's a good thing. [22:20]
shinohai The Ubuntu server is remote - lost connection and had to reconnect [22:20]
mod6 if hanbot and Mr. P. can get through it ok, then we'll deedbot it -- not that I feel good about it - I don't. The thing isn't what we really want... it's just what we have, for now. :/ [22:21]
mod6 the entire build process is incredibly complex and we need to desperately reduce that compelxity as much as we can. [22:22]
shinohai I can work with it because I've used variation of it for so many builds. But I understand the issues at hand. [22:22]
mod6 exactly. [22:22]
shinohai I won't lie those, there are times I cry " mod6 HALP!!!!" [22:22]
mod6 my goal is that someone who doesn't really know much -- but at least enough to install Linux can build this with a "single button push" [22:23]
shinohai *though [22:23]
mod6 Yeah, the good news is: We have a statically linked bitcoind that has come quite a long way from where we started. Infact, the original version flat out will not work any longer -- ala TomServo's issue. [22:23]
mod6 However, the process to build said binary is quite arduous and we need to perfect that part. [22:24]
mod6 Then we'll be ready to take on the more challenging parts this year -- i.e. the mempool etc. [22:24]
mod6 But we can't work on that, until we have something that people can use today. [22:24]
mod6 what good is fixing the mempool or other things if they can't build it and use it today? [22:24]
mod6 if someone says "hey fuck these ``Classic and XT clowns, I want REAL BITCOIN'', then we need to ensure that they can build that. [22:25]
mod6 that's our charge. [22:25]
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shinohai It goes with the territory though. So many moving parts and this is relatively young in it's existence [22:25]
mod6 Yup. It's complex. We've come a long way. [22:26]
mod6 trinque did us all a huge favor, but we need to perfect the thing and make it a "no brainer" [22:26]
mod6 that will be my main goal as soon as the SoBA for january is complete. [22:27]
mod6 which, I aim to work on tonight :] [22:27]
mod6 As soon as we have our new build process in place, and it's sane, and "Works" and "fits in head" and all that, then we'll release. [22:27]
mod6 And hopefully, this will end some of our tooling issues for a while, and we can focus on the large engineering issues at hand. [22:28]
mod6 *larger [22:28]
punkman mod6: my goal is that someone who doesn't really know much << wouldn't this guy be better off downloading a signed binary? [22:36]
mod6 this to me always seems like a shaky idea -- ONLY even a possibility if we get all the compiler garbage fixed so that it produces (bitwise) the ~exact~ same binary every single time. [22:37]
mod6 i do think, as a republic, we're laying the groundwork for that at some point to be a possibility. [22:39]
mod6 so stragicially, we're moving in the correct direction there. [22:39]
* shinohai would contribute a .deb package with same result [22:40]
mod6 Look at how much stuff we accomplished in January! [22:41]
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mod6 I feel good about the work that you all put in this month. Thanks to everyone who helped the republic be successful this month. [22:42]
* shinohai drinks to tmsr~ [~]D [22:43]
mod6 Salud! [22:43]
punkman does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's? [22:43]
* assbot gives voice to trinque [22:45]
trinque http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389199 << certainly, I'd be happy to host it [22:46]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 20:10:39; mod6: and upon a few others successfully building, trinque, can you work your magic with deedbot and place that guy in there so its like deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-v99996K.sh or whatever? [22:46]
trinque http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389272 << there's some tweaking I'd like to do, would be happy to have your thoughts on the thing when you're able if you see other improvements [22:47]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 20:34:34; mod6: as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand. [22:47]
trinque http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-01-2016#1384068 << I designed the makefiles to take a BUILDER variable, of which there is currently only rotor. perhaps this is the place to add an openbsd builder, which could apply unofficial patches as they are necessary after V press [22:49]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 08:18:57; phf: as it stands foundation doesn't support openbsd, and when someone wants to build on openbsd, i just support them directly [22:49]
mod6 <+trinque> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389199 << certainly, I'd be happy to host it << outstanding, thanks! [22:51]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 20:10:39; mod6: and upon a few others successfully building, trinque, can you work your magic with deedbot and place that guy in there so its like deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-v99996K.sh or whatever? [22:51]
mod6 <+trinque> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389272 << there's some tweaking I'd like to do, would be happy to have your thoughts on the thing when you're able if you see other improvements << yeah, please, if you have the time, i'd really like to work with you to help us not only get the makefiles updated with the latest V and other things, but to also figure out all of this stuff. [22:51]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 20:34:34; mod6: as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand. [22:51]
trinque I will probably be out all day tomorrow, but the next day or sometime next week will work for me. [22:52]
mod6 <+trinque> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-01-2016#1384068 << I designed the makefiles to take a BUILDER variable, of which there is currently only rotor. ... << for now, as far as I'm concerned, this is totally ok. we'll have to worry about other *nix's after we perfect getting linux x86-64 done with a CD to boot also. [22:52]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 08:18:57; phf: as it stands foundation doesn't support openbsd, and when someone wants to build on openbsd, i just support them directly [22:52]
mod6 <+trinque> I will probably be out all day tomorrow, but the next day or sometime next week will work for me. << no rush here. i'd like to dig into this sometime next week. [22:53]
trinque cool. [22:53]
mod6 I feel like, if you and I put some serious effort with help from #b-a, for like 2 weeks, we'd really be somewhere by the end of february. [22:53]
mod6 which would allow us some full testing time - at the end of which, we sign patches and call it a release. [22:54]
mod6 two weeks kinda sounds like it might be a lot, but you know how this stuff goes ;) [22:54]
trinque that sounds good to me. [22:56]
mircea_popescu mod6 and in the same vein as prev comment : why does bitcoind end up in /bitcoin/src ? [22:56]
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mod6 mircea_popescu: no specific reason, we just leave it in place after compilation. moving to trinque's setup resolves this. [22:57]
mircea_popescu kk [22:57]
mod6 you think i should copy it somewhere in the v99996 build script before i jump onto other things? i'd rather just let sleeping dogs lie there, just because very soon we're gonna ditch it anyway. [22:57]
mircea_popescu yeah ok [22:58]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [22:59]
mod6 oh hey [23:00]
mod6 btw, did it ever build ok for you after the 'bc' issue? [23:00]
mod6 hanbot: did you get it to work too? [23:00]
PeterL http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389165 << the MSU Chemistry department is decidedly standardized on chalk. We had these nice 1" thick chalk, was great for drawing molecules you could read from the back of the lecture hall [23:02]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 19:57:06; mircea_popescu: hey, best part of physics lab was the blackboard imo [23:02]
PeterL I always hated when we had to use a room in the physics department, they used whiteboards [23:02]
mircea_popescu mod6 : latest trb v99996 on 91.218.246.31 says "blocks" : 4500, "connections" : 13, [23:02]
mod6 ah ok!! [23:03]
shinohai btw mod6 I still have to add the export PERL_MM_OPT= to mine to get it to run, dunno what weird issue I have that causes it. [23:03]
mircea_popescu minor snags as detailed in logs. but nothing really worth the mention [23:03]
mod6 ok gotcha [23:03]
mod6 shinohai: that *is* weird. [23:03]
mod6 mircea_popescu: hey, just because im curious -- let me know if you get past 252`450 -- or if you'd rather, check and see if you have the most recent db.cpp [23:04]
mod6 TomServo's issues have me a bit curious there. [23:04]
mircea_popescu mod6 ima look one sec [23:04]
mod6 Thanks Sir. Much appreciated. [23:05]
mircea_popescu mod6 565faf3ef371f5e2178ae30c45b08b93415eeb92263486e68f2ac2e8f4c7900056e628804bf5c0707a90be946e0aeaebfcd0a391aab40de2e5d56e6bcbdccb1e db.cpp that help ? [23:05]
mircea_popescu dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(2737000); [23:06]
mircea_popescu yeah seems right. [23:06]
mod6 Thanks Sir. Much appreciated.# sha512sum db.cpp [23:06]
mod6 565faf3ef371f5e2178ae30c45b08b93415eeb92263486e68f2ac2e8f4c7900056e628804bf5c0707a90be946e0aeaebfcd0a391aab40de2e5d56e6bcbdccb1e db.cpp [23:06]
mod6 oops, copied too much there. [23:06]
mod6 yah, looks good to me. very good. [23:06]
mircea_popescu cool. [23:06]
mod6 hmm. perhaps he has something environmental going on. be interesting to get to the bottom of that mystery. [23:06]
mircea_popescu TomServo how much ram does the system actulaly have ? [23:07]
mod6 just dial: 1888-MOD-6HLP [23:07]
mod6 :D [23:08]
mircea_popescu better than 0-800-NO-HODL [23:08]
mod6 haha [23:08]
mircea_popescu o look at that, blockchain 10% done! [23:10]
mircea_popescu hurr [23:10]
mod6 running -verifyall ? [23:10]
mircea_popescu yeah. [23:10]
mod6 werd [23:10]
mircea_popescu also running -connect [23:10]
mircea_popescu because why would i take stuff from the webs. [23:10]
mod6 ya, i agree with that when sync'ing up. get a verified chain from a trusted node. [23:11]
mircea_popescu yup. [23:11]
mod6 then make a backup (for those who haven't) [23:11]
trinque shinohai: I'd type env in a terminal of yours, see what your system is setting [23:12]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << ok that's great. [23:14]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 23:34:09; phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk [23:14]
trinque also, deedbox will be down shortly for SSD installation, whenever the DC pulls it [23:15]
mircea_popescu phf what do you use to graph ? [23:15]
* hanbot (~hanbot@#64;unaffiliated/hanbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:17]
* assbot gives voice to hanbot [23:17]
hanbot mod6 v99996 up and running here, couldn't've asked for something smoother. [23:18]
mod6 wow, hanbot. congrats! [23:19]
mod6 Thanks for the feedback. :] [23:19]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389541 << i did have to run the rotor by hand. [23:20]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 01:10:38; mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ftr mod6 : i ended up with two rotor.sh scripts, one under rotor the other under rotor/test2 << yeah, if all goes well, you should ~only~ need to just execute the build script -- if you have to execute either of the rotor.sh scripts, then something went wrong. [23:20]
mircea_popescu anyway mod6 this is a milestone for teh foundation, got three instances spun up on the same fucking day of the release. [23:20]
mircea_popescu within hours really [23:20]
mod6 ok, on that note then; we've got myself, shinohai, bitcoin_pete, hanbot, Mr. P. and who am i forgetting that have built v99996 build script -- i'd say let's put it in deed bot and update the wiki. [23:20]
mod6 mircea_popescu: that's great! very nice progress indeed. [23:21]
mircea_popescu o right, more like 5 huh [23:21]
mod6 Couldn't have been possible without all of you. [23:21]
mircea_popescu anyway, im only going to announce the new nodes once they're synced and i open them to public i figure. [23:22]
mod6 Thanks for doing so! That's awesome. [23:22]
mircea_popescu currently kinda useless to advertise nodes that run in -connect [23:22]
shinohai I'll open mine to public when I finish my battle with Comcast. [23:22]
mod6 give 'em hell, shinohai [23:22]
mircea_popescu lol no gaming on comcast cable ? [23:23]
PeterL does it sync faster in -connect rather than -addnode? [23:23]
mircea_popescu PeterL probably. moreover, it allows the trb network to be built in depth. what the fuck do we even have the fronteer nodes for if not to protect us [23:23]
mircea_popescu i haven't the slightest curiosity to find what rando i couldn't tell from adam thinks the blocks look like. [23:24]
shinohai mod6 Atlanta is one of the cities they decide to start enforcing data caps on. :/ [23:24]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << ok that's great. << this ~is~ a nice looking graph [23:24]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 23:34:09; phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk [23:24]
mod6 shinohai: wow. perhaps, it's not a horrible idea to look at a hosted solution instead of saturating your home conn. [23:25]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389555 << incidentally, could all the flags be covered in .conf ? [23:25]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 01:15:55; mod6: if you have .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -- then you shouldn't need to use the flag: -conf [23:25]
mod6 mircea_popescu: I believe they should. [23:26]
mod6 shinohai: you use the conf file quite a bit right? does it seem to work "as expected" ? [23:26]
mircea_popescu and also, could we bundle a pre-created .conf file with the release ? something to include say all the public trb nodes as -connects and stuff, with a comment to explain to people how to turn it into a public node ? [23:26]
mircea_popescu something like [23:26]
mircea_popescu connect = X Y Z [23:27]
mircea_popescu # to make this node public, make sure port 8333 is open, comment out the line above and uncomment the line below [23:27]
mircea_popescu # somesetting [23:27]
mod6 hmm. i'd feel like that maybe that's a bit sticky incase IPs change or what not -- maybe an addition to the wiki would be a better place to start there? [23:27]
mircea_popescu you just update it with every release. [23:28]
mircea_popescu defaults are defaults, people are free to change them. but it's nice to have when out of the box like this [23:28]
mod6 sure. that makes some sense. if it reduces confusion, i think its positive. [23:28]
mircea_popescu i dunno, just throwing it out there, for ppl to weigh in [23:28]
shinohai mod6: it works as expected for me, maybe I'll draft one up in next couple of days [23:28]
mod6 hey hey, there you go bud. [23:29]
mircea_popescu certainly gets it one step further to the "one command and it runs" ideal [23:29]
mod6 yah, shinohai that's be super helpful. [23:29]
mod6 *that'd [23:29]
mod6 you know something that is a lot different participating in TMSR as opposed to any other place i've worked at? [23:30]
mircea_popescu whassat [23:31]
mod6 people in here ~care~ about problems. they wanna pitch in and help and make things better. [23:31]
mircea_popescu that's the idea [23:31]
mod6 in typical US work environment, its mainly a lot of "oh, that's not my problem... talk to so and so..." [23:31]
shinohai If you don't care about Bitcoin, you shouldn't be here. [23:31]
mod6 seeing us pull together and get problems solved, warms my heart. [23:31]
PeterL maybe you just need to find better workplaces? [23:32]
shinohai What good is being part of a Republic, if you do not contribute for the good of said Republic? [23:32]
mod6 lol, ive actually worked at a lot of places. it's totally different. people go there to get paid so they can continue buying shit they don't need and eating food that isn't food. [23:32]
mod6 this, like shinohai said, is different because people want it. [23:33]
mod6 "sound money is better than anything you've got" [23:33]
* shinohai would not have nice new lappy without sound money! [23:34]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389566 << actually it was really pleasant. [23:35]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 01:20:35; mod6: the entire build process is incredibly complex and we need to desperately reduce that compelxity as much as we can. [23:35]
mircea_popescu and i'm one easily irritated. [23:36]
shinohai Chillax and smoke more weed mircea_popescu [23:40]
mircea_popescu "blocks" : 88213, man that first coupla years go fast... [23:42]
* PeterL has quit (Quit: PeterL) [23:42]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389587 < no. [23:44]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 01:34:33; punkman: mod6: my goal is that someone who doesn't really know much << wouldn't this guy be better off downloading a signed binary? [23:44]
mircea_popescu for one thing, the VERY CONCEPT of signed binary no longer exists. [23:45]
mircea_popescu we have a complex trees of signatures etc. [23:45]
mircea_popescu for the other thing, no. it promotes this anti-computing, anti-intellectual, outright evil view of software being something that is given the user, like an item, rather than the correct view of software being a command given to the computer. [23:46]
mircea_popescu and in general. fuck that shit. [23:46]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389596 << so like a rotor reimplementation ? [23:47]
assbot Logged on 30-01-2016 01:42:16; punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's? [23:47]
shinohai But it's what the user expects! [23:48]
punkman I don't think "guy that doesn't know much" doing "curl deedbot.com/build.sh | sh" is great either [23:49]
phf i'm using graphviz, v.lisp produces a file of 'digraph G {"bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32" -> "asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation"; ...' format, everything else handled by graphviz [23:50]
phf [23:50]
mircea_popescu why not ? [23:50]
mircea_popescu phf your v.lisp seems pretty advanced then :) [23:50]
phf it gets the job done :] [23:51]
* HostFat (~HostFat@#64;2-235-224-2.ip230.fastwebnet.it) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:52]
* deedbot- has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [23:56]
* mthreat_ is now known as mthreat [23:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @#64; 0.00056225 = 18.8635 BTC [+] {4} [23:57]
Category: Logs
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