Forum logs for 28 Apr 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [08:18]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [08:18]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [08:18]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [08:18]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [08:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19150 @ 0.00029894 = 5.7247 BTC [+] {3} [08:22]
mircea_popescu davout [08:22]
assbot A new Lordship List ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [08:22]
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mircea_popescu mike_c take davout for instance now if I click on timestamp, i see "Feb. 16, 2015 He combats malpidity on the forums." as the penultimate entry, between Jan. 27 and Feb 3, 2011 [08:29]
assbot davout WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( ) [08:29]
mircea_popescu don't tell me my local js is broken o.O [08:29]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37820 @ 0.00028807 = 10.8948 BTC [-] {2} [08:59]
kakobrekla ;;later tell pete_dushenski thats mps thing [09:06]
gribble The operation succeeded. [09:06]
mircea_popescu from the svg : "stroke-linecap:butt" [09:06]
mircea_popescu seems appropriate. [09:06]
kakobrekla you wanna get log1 fixed ? [09:07]
mircea_popescu am i right, l2 went from 544 to 345 ? [09:08]
mircea_popescu sure kako. [09:08]
mircea_popescu what do i need to do ? [09:08]
kakobrekla nfi [09:09]
mircea_popescu can you log into acct ? [09:09]
kakobrekla you told me to change the ip and then it went from working to not working [09:09]
mircea_popescu well cause server moved [09:09]
kakobrekla lemme try [09:09]
mircea_popescu so new ip [09:09]
kakobrekla i am logged in [09:10]
* kakobrekla has no idea how the fck do i diagnose whats wrong in this 'cpanel' [09:10]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell mike_c btw, the svg cuts ever so slightly of the names on the left, like "anielkraw" and "iatouriansky_" [09:10]
gribble The operation succeeded. [09:10]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla i think you can also ssh ? [09:11]
kakobrekla maybe you can spot the error if you log in ? [09:11]
mircea_popescu ok lets see [09:11]
kakobrekla aha i found thing called 'error log' [09:13]
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scoopbot_revived News! Chtulhu emerges! URL: [09:20]
assbot Chtulhu emerges! on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [09:20]
BingoBoingo [09:56]
assbot VIDEO: Angry mom beats son suspected of rioting in Baltimore | ... ( ) [09:56]
BingoBoingo 15 Officer injuries vs. 2 dozen arrests [10:01]
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mircea_popescu << ahaha [10:14]
assbot The FetLife Creeplist, Volume 1 « Maybe Maimed but Never Harmed ... ( ) [10:14]
mircea_popescu "Here is a list of the first 3,730 of FetLife’s financial supporters who are male- and dominant-identified. " [10:14]
mircea_popescu strike down that patriarchy! [10:15]
BingoBoingo lol [10:17]
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mircea_popescu pretty cool if you ask me :D [10:19]
BingoBoingo Seriously, let all the agendas make fetlife lists [10:21]
mircea_popescu what's really funny to me is that there's a "social media site", with 3-4mn claimed "users". out of these 3-4mn, if 1% are actually there you're lucky, and out of those 1% if anothyer 1% is even vaguely worth the mention you're ahead of the curve. [10:22]
mircea_popescu BUT! out of all those millions... you should be surprised if like... two people get it, a month or two later. [10:22]
mircea_popescu that's where we're at, currently. crowd source means, you gotta get 4 mn "users" together to get two guys that get it two months later. [10:23]
mircea_popescu it's not even that it'd be easier to do the getting yourself, by hand. or that it'd be easier to make an eliza get it. you could actually run a school and get better results. [10:23]
mircea_popescu which is kind-of like how the us army works, too : you need 4 mn people employed by the pentagon to get two dudes shooting a rifle at the enemy two months later. [10:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28000 @ 0.00028791 = 8.0615 BTC [-] [10:26]
mircea_popescu << zing. lol. [10:29]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 02:22:37; ben_vulpes: you know, that kindergarten class [10:29]
mircea_popescu << i can't fucvking believe you actually put a translation you made in a pastebin. [10:30]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 02:53:09; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al: [10:30]
mircea_popescu dude. your blog. POST ON IT. [10:30]
mircea_popescu why is this so counter-intuitive and hard and shit. [10:31]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: [10:31]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 02:55:53; asciilifeform: << permacopy [10:31]
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mircea_popescu better. now if only it had availed itself of those magical inventions of the 70s called... html and web! [10:32]
asciilifeform l0l [10:32]
mircea_popescu so you know, i can go "hmm... what else did this guy write" and stuff. [10:32]
asciilifeform can chop the url and get the site per se, aha [10:32]
* mircea_popescu falls over [10:33]
mircea_popescu and speaking of which... the great moment ? of yesterday ? and day before yesterday ? did i miss it ? [10:33]
asciilifeform it's a throwaway turd, l0l, not real article [10:33]
mircea_popescu!111 [10:33]
mircea_popescu there isn't a real life that's gonna start just as soon as this one's tweaked into perfection, you xtian you. [10:34]
mircea_popescu this. this is it. [10:34]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didn't miss. occupied with meatspace crap atm. [10:34]
mircea_popescu well... once you decide to commit to sysadmining that box, you can take cpanel off :D [10:34]
mircea_popescu and you can even build a btc business on top of this!!1 [10:34]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc it is one of those beasts that infests a machine to such a degree that it cannot really be removed in the sense of restoring the thing to virginity [10:35]
asciilifeform but for the humble application in mind here, can live with it [10:35]
mircea_popescu if you commit to sysadmining it i don't care what you do, you can reos it for all i care. [10:35]
mircea_popescu BUT! it's a commitment. [10:35]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: is that thing connected to ipkvm or other device that would allow it to be re-os'd without taking an airplane ? [10:35]
mircea_popescu well it was os'd to my spec the first time... [10:36]
* mircea_popescu 's trick to "fit in head" is chopping off the details. [10:36]
asciilifeform again, for the current application, i have no objection to the way it is set up. it won't be issuing launch codes. [10:37]
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mircea_popescu aite. [10:37]
* mircea_popescu inspects list. fetlife check, alf check, mike check, who am i going to bother and disturb next ? [10:38]
mircea_popescu i guess time for meatspace for a spell. [10:38]
asciilifeform << or him [10:38]
assbot ClubOrlov: The Limits of Propaganda ... ( ) [10:38]
mircea_popescu i only bother intelligent life forms. [10:38]
asciilifeform l0l [10:38]
mircea_popescu the time for winning staring contests with rocks is at five. [10:39]
asciilifeform try the housecats in recoleta [10:39]
mircea_popescu i am old now, and not so easily entertained. [10:39]
asciilifeform very intelligent [10:39]
asciilifeform unrelated, [10:41]
assbot LTC3108 - Ultralow Voltage Step-Up Converter and Power Manager - Linear Technology ... ( ) [10:41]
asciilifeform they also sell a 'buck' (vs 'boost') version of same, for use with piezos [10:41]
asciilifeform (which crap out 100+v) [10:41]
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mircea_popescu << he's right there. nobody has an actual obligation to relay any tx to you in any form than in a block. [10:46]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 03:17:06; asciilifeform: and other thing is, clients have tremendous incentive to drop mempool tx that is an obvious non-candidate for block [10:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70826 @ 0.00029101 = 20.6111 BTC [+] {3} [10:46]
mircea_popescu that people currently do... people currently do all sortsa things [10:46]
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mircea_popescu << if you're a miner, that you'll include in another block. if you're not a miner, that you'll show it to other nodes, which other nodes will value you for this service, and keep talking to you, sending you txn in turn. [10:48]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 03:19:10; ben_vulpes: seriously, because i'm retarded: what is the incentive to keep a tx in the mempool that will be included in a block but not one that won't? [10:48]
* assbot gives voice to lobbes [10:48]
mircea_popescu this latter part is not implemented yet. because power braindamage. [10:48]
mircea_popescu should prolly be styled as Power bRAiNdamaGER. [10:49]
asciilifeform right now there is only the retarded 'Dos(N, ...)' thing [10:49]
asciilifeform for kicking a few enumerated badnesses [10:49]
mircea_popescu myup [10:50]
mircea_popescu but once foundation gets a "node valuing" patch in... [10:50]
asciilifeform anyone who reads the code will probably lean to agreeing with my take on this, which is that this is one of the 1,001 things which is not happening as a simple patch [10:50]
asciilifeform but will have to wait for the full shebang. [10:50]
mircea_popescu i agree with that too. [10:50]
mircea_popescu but eventually... [10:50]
mircea_popescu << pete went ironically. [10:53]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 05:19:01; pete_dushenski: at the very least, i knew it would provide useful fodder for teh contravex cannon ;) [10:53]
mircea_popescu << kinda shows the limits of stereotyping. black people that shoot black people are in no way related to black people who riot @ the police. [10:55]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 07:41:15; cazalla: seeing nignogs are only too happy to fire on other nignogs, imma say their heart really isn't in this riot and it'll peter out.. it's *not* happening, sorry /pol/ lol [10:55]
mircea_popescu what's next, italian gangster and italian greengrocer = "italians" ? [10:56]
mircea_popescu and for the record, the "we only whack each other" behaviour is documented last fucking century. by... sinatra! [10:56]
mircea_popescu and even before that, by mark twain, who observed that gunslingers think nothing of killing random derps. [10:57]
mircea_popescu here's the actual bit : [11:01]
mircea_popescu I remember an instance of a desperado's contempt for such small game as a private citizen's life. I was taking a late supper in a restaurant one night, with two reporters and a little printer named—Brown, for instance—any name will do. Presently a stranger with a long-tailed coat on came in, and not noticing Brown's hat, which was lying in a chair, sat down on it. Little Brown sprang up and became abusive in a mome [11:01]
mircea_popescu nt. The stranger smiled, smoothed out the hat, and offered it to Brown with profuse apologies couched in caustic sarcasm, and begged Brown not to destroy him. Brown threw off his coat and challenged the man to fight—abused him, threatened him, impeached his courage, and urged and even implored him to fight; and in the meantime the smiling stranger placed himself under our protection in mock distress. But presently he [11:01]
mircea_popescu assumed a serious tone, and said: [11:01]
mircea_popescu "Very well, gentlemen, if we must fight, we must, I suppose. But don't rush into danger and then say I gave you no warning. I am more than a match for all of you when I get started. I will give you proofs, and then if my friend here still insists, I will try to accommodate him." [11:01]
mircea_popescu The table we were sitting at was about five feet long, and unusually cumbersome and heavy. He asked us to put our hands on the dishes and hold them in their places a moment—one of them was a large oval dish with a portly roast on it. Then he sat down, tilted up one end of the table, set two of the legs on his knees, took the end of the table between his teeth, took his hands away, and pulled down with his teeth till [11:01]
mircea_popescu the table came up to a level position, dishes and all! He said he could lift a keg of nails with his teeth. He picked up a common glass tumbler and bit a semi-circle out of it. Then he opened his bosom and showed us a net-work of knife and bullet scars; showed us more on his arms and face, and said he believed he had bullets enough in his body to make a pig of lead. He was armed to the teeth. He closed with the remark [11:01]
mircea_popescu that he was Mr.——of Cariboo—a celebrated name whe [11:01]
mircea_popescu so... no. it's not the race, it's the occupation. [11:01]
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mircea_popescu davout notbad guitar. [11:07]
mats [11:09]
assbot 10,000 Strong Peacefully Protest In Downtown Baltimore - Album on Imgur ... ( ) [11:09]
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mircea_popescu << ba speaks ?! [11:10]
assbot ... ( ) [11:10]
mircea_popescu "I see a lot of people complaining about the horrible stuff looters and rioters are doing in Baltimore. This is what the media wants you to see, this is the negative side. This is being shown over and over to make you forget that a man had his SPINE SEVERED in police custody. So here are 10,000 people peacefully protesting today that no one seems to be talking about." [11:11]
mircea_popescu solid point. [11:11]
BingoBoingo Solid enough Baltimore PD is kinda getting raped with it. [11:14]
lobbes [11:24]
assbot US-Japan defense deal broadens Tokyo's role in face of growing Chinese might | US news | The Guardian ... ( ) [11:24]
lobbes 'Tokyo’s readiness to embrace what Abe calls “proactive pacifism” comes amid growing anxiety in Japan and across Asia over China’s rising military and economic might.' [11:24]
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Pierre_Rochard re: baltimore, so far the only cogent analysis I’ve read is from the Oriole’s COO: [11:41]
assbot Baltimore Orioles Executive Passionately Defends Freddie Gray Protesters ... ( ) [11:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9387 @ 0.00030429 = 2.8564 BTC [+] [11:46]
lobbes !rate Blazedout419 1 small, but smooth transaction [11:52]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [11:52]
danielpbarron smooth like hand carved wood? [11:54]
BingoBoingo Oh, apparently there is a better alternative to Changetip nao [11:54]
assbot brainunwashing comments on Tales from a Bariatric Clinic: FlipperHam ... ( ) [11:54]
Pierre_Rochard ^ micro transactions for macro gains [11:55]
lobbes smooth like hand carved wood? << felt more laser-cut smooth [11:57]
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davout [11:58]
assbot La communauté hipster cherche un nouveau mot pour « mainstream », jugé trop mainstream | Le Gorafi News Network ... ( ) [11:58]
davout today we laugh in french, because we're so sophisticated [11:58]
BingoBoingo !up Altcoin [11:59]
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Altcoin suck my balls [12:01]
Pierre_Rochard davout: [12:02]
assbot The Simpsons - En Francais - YouTube ... ( ) [12:02]
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davout Pierre_Rochard: précisément [12:02]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00028935 = 7.0312 BTC [-] {2} [12:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24050 @ 0.00030129 = 7.246 BTC [+] [12:50]
ascii_field << can't wait for the jp re-arm [12:57]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 14:19:45; lobbes: 'Tokyo’s readiness to embrace what Abe calls “proactive pacifism” comes amid growing anxiety in Japan and across Asia over China’s rising military and economic might.' [12:57]
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pete_dushenski !up ascii_field [13:24]
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pete_dushenski japan 're-arming' calls to mind images of ninjarobot armies [13:25]
pete_dushenski nuclear-powered ones at that. [13:26]
ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: didja ever read A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer? [13:26]
pete_dushenski can't say i did. [13:26]
pete_dushenski scifi ? [13:26]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: aka 'the diamond age' [13:27]
ben_vulpes yeah. has some hoplites and an (mircea_popescu'd like this one) army of girls [13:27]
pete_dushenski well ghaddafi'd like that too. [13:27]
ben_vulpes i can't speak to ghaddafi's training skills tho [13:28]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu is basically a better read, less geographically restricted, and paler Qadaffi [13:28]
ben_vulpes << hey what'd i miss here [13:29]
assbot Logged on 27-04-2015 21:06:25; mike_c: chetty: cool pic! kinda sad to see boxy go :) [13:29]
ben_vulpes << aren't you writing some sort of exchange, too? [13:29]
assbot Logged on 27-04-2015 21:04:56; williamdunne: Suits me [13:29]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: pretty much all of the scifi books i've read were by asimov, heinlein, clarke, and... adams. [13:30]
williamdunne ben_vulpes: Yes [13:30]
ben_vulpes << hyuu [13:30]
assbot Logged on 27-04-2015 21:30:23; mircea_popescu: i also had cherisse with maraschino cherries, but thought of ben. [13:30]
ben_vulpes cherisse is in the same food group as la cuña? [13:31]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: hard to say how well read muammar was. [13:31]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Well only way to judge that is the writings and Ghaddafi doesn't have a trilema. [13:32]
pete_dushenski mebbe he had diaries ? [13:32]
pete_dushenski personal, hand-written, old fashioned sorta things. [13:32]
pete_dushenski not many men of his vintage embraced the blog. [13:33]
ben_vulpes ascii_ [13:33]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: the md fun anywhere near you? [13:33]
davout williamdunne: what are you even writing it for? [13:33]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: about 1hr away [13:33]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: he was born in '69 to "The son of an impoverished Bedouin goat herder" [13:33]
ben_vulpes ascii_field: chinese times [13:33]
williamdunne davout: hoping some gurlz turn up [13:34]
ben_vulpes > hoping [13:34]
ben_vulpes > girls [13:34]
BingoBoingo ascii_field Ah, You're about the same distance I was from Fergusson [13:34]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: sorry, ghadaffi was born in '42. that makes waaay more sense. [13:34]
davout williamdunne: what? [13:34]
ben_vulpes kids kinda funny [13:34]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: yeah [13:35]
williamdunne davout: I'm writing it because it interesting to do, and I have some ideas it could be useful for [13:35]
davout the latter part being pretty much what i'm asking [13:36]
ben_vulpes achtung, qntrites! ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED [13:36]
davout ;;isup [13:36]
gribble is up [13:36]
ben_vulpes << ascii_field the thing is nowhere near harvested [13:36]
assbot Warrick County Prosecutor's Office Cover Up Ransomware Infection | ... ( ) [13:36]
williamdunne davout: Allowing people who are trusted significantly enough to carry out a contract, to sell their future earnings in return for money today. Sorta like an MPEX for people [13:37]
davout i parse that as some variant of btcjam [13:37]
williamdunne Not really [13:38]
williamdunne It wouldn't be loans [13:38]
williamdunne i.e I sell 40% of all my future income for xx btc today [13:38]
williamdunne I may make 1 btc in the rest of my life [13:38]
williamdunne In which case its a net negative [13:38]
davout ok, that would be a stock exchange [13:39]
williamdunne Correct >Sorta like an MPEX for people [13:39]
williamdunne So rather than buying S.Dice it would be P.Voorhees [13:40]
ben_vulpes stross had a book about this [13:41]
davout ic [13:41]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: know what the yield was ? [13:41]
ascii_field (of the particular turd) [13:41]
* ben_vulpes relents, temporarily [13:42]
ben_vulpes (how could i?) [13:42]
ascii_field i can guess - nice round number [13:42]
ascii_field 0. [13:42]
ben_vulpes you can guess all you like, doesn't mean diddly. [13:43]
ben_vulpes << hawwww [13:43]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 13:34:26; mircea_popescu: i am old now, and not so easily entertained. [13:43]
ascii_field guess based on samples i collect personally [13:43]
ascii_field ben_vulpes: it is precisely like the spam cargo cult [13:43]
ben_vulpes you're not collecting water station samples, are you? [13:44]
ascii_field wai wut [13:44]
ben_vulpes the water filtration station - it's not ending up in your nets. [13:44]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [13:54]
mircea_popescu lawl [13:55]
assbot Why no SSL ? — Varnish version trunk documentation ... ( ) [13:55]
kakobrekla I think I hve found the reason for the recent spike in sales. Microsoft keeps earning me money. This time their users get infected with Cryptowall 3.0. Explains the many recent purchases of about 500 USD worth in bitcoins. [13:56]
mircea_popescu sigh. [14:02]
mircea_popescu here's me having wasted 4 hours trying to sysadmin. [14:03]
mircea_popescu it is obviously trivial to get varnish installed, and it will cache. [14:03]
mircea_popescu obviously, it will fuck up the source IP for requests. it's not obvious how to get apache to fix this. [14:04]
mircea_popescu and so here we are, AGAIN : foss is perfectly fucking useless. [14:04]
mircea_popescu it "mostly" does the job, every time. it NEVER actually does the job. not ever. [14:04]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [14:05]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [14:05]
ascii_field ^^^^^^ [14:05]
mircea_popescu "it might be nginx, it might me mod_rpaf, it might be mod_futipemata ; some of these have been forked. the way to install them is make the whole fucking httpd-devel [14:07]
mircea_popescu as if THAT is what i wanna do. [14:07]
mircea_popescu is fucking down [14:07]
mircea_popescu and in generall... [14:07]
ascii_field welcome to the sad hell [14:08]
mircea_popescu or you know, you could install nginx [14:09]
mircea_popescu because totally, that's the stack you want, 8 things long [14:09]
mircea_popescu or you could install apachebooster, which is... a wrapper on nginx and varnish, by "prajith" [14:09]
mircea_popescu who meanwhile sold it to some derp-ass host corp, that wants 9 bux a year. for what exactly ? a script ? [14:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35100 @ 0.00029973 = 10.5205 BTC [-] [14:10]
mircea_popescu ascii_field the actual sad hell is not this. it is that i will solve it, and that will serve ABSOLUTELY NOBODY [14:11]
mircea_popescu supposedly THIS is why we're wasting all the money on "ip" enforcement : so that i am not in this position where i can say the above. [14:11]
mircea_popescu works about as well as fucking foss. [14:11]
ascii_field well yes, will solve it [14:11]
ascii_field how else. [14:11]
mircea_popescu dignork yes, it does. but apache does not look at it. [14:11]
mircea_popescu and i know this, incidentally, because i have meanwhile learned "vcl" [14:12]
ascii_field and of course it will serve no one else. that'd be, what, interchangeable parts, it isn't 1800 yet, not invented yet [14:12]
mircea_popescu which is a retarded domain language with consturcts like [14:12]
mircea_popescu remove req.http.X-Forwarded-For; [14:12]
mircea_popescu set req.http.X-Forwarded-For = client.ip; [14:12]
mircea_popescu all the boyish idiocy of "software development" needs to go die in a fire. [14:14]
mircea_popescu !up dignork [14:14]
* assbot gives voice to dignork [14:14]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: at present, no one has the fuel for this fire. [14:15]
ascii_field ignition - yes, buncha angry fellas with welding torches [14:15]
mircea_popescu dignork it's not a matter of logging it. it's a matter of, php no longer sees the source [14:15]
mircea_popescu ascii_field hopefully i get the fetlife femmes pissy enough to combust. [14:15]
mircea_popescu << check it out, the file is actually lost. [14:18]
dignork well, it's still accessible as http header (X-Forwarded-For or similar), so it will require some minor changes to php code [14:18]
assbot Installing mod_rpaf on CentOS Apache server | Managed Drupal Hosting Services on Drupal Optimized with Varnish, APC, Memcache, Apache Solr, Drush, Webmin/Virtualmin and more! ... ( ) [14:18]
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mircea_popescu random derps are willing to send you a copy. if you trust them. signatures ? wots ? wut ? [14:18]
mircea_popescu dignork change THE CODE because of THE SERVER ?! [14:18]
mircea_popescu WHAT THE FUCK I AM GOING TO BURN [14:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17040 @ 0.00030652 = 5.2231 BTC [+] {2} [14:19]
dignork adding reverse proxy is infrastructure change, original code might have been written with such change in mind, but even if not, usally it's a minor modification [14:20]
mircea_popescu the most insulting thing is that while the wisdom seems to be "eh, change the code", there does not exist a master list where you know, all the code dependencies are nicely cross-referenced, so i can just go "fuckup-php for-the-ip-poroxy-issue" [14:21]
mircea_popescu think about it. why the fuck should the code have to know about this. and if it does have to know about this, why aren't ALL the code references affected by any of such a change cross-indexed somewhere ? [14:21]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: there is probably enough accumulated anger of this kind among computer users for two or three classy genocides [14:21]
* ascii_field has, if anyone didn't know, a whole www site about this [14:22]
mircea_popescu dignork the only way you would be allowed to write code, in a world where "hey, if infrastructure changes code needs to change" is with index lists of "all lines affected by X - here" "all lines affected by Y - here" [14:22]
* ascii_field recalls this exists as ada postprocessor [14:22]
mircea_popescu i am not surprised. [14:23]
ascii_field but this is a mega-l0l - apache crud, etc. wake me up when someone has the resources to rewrite even something that catastrophically matters, e.g. bitcoin [14:23]
mircea_popescu it doesn't even exist, you hear me ? the cannonical way to get ip fixed on a varnished apache is "Note that where the file originally were located for some reason is off currently." [14:24]
mircea_popescu i thouht it's just off you know, as i happened to look at it. but no, they have blogposts about it [14:24]
williamdunne mircea_popescu: Can you not use the WordPress cacheing plugin? [14:25]
mircea_popescu the who now ?! [14:25]
dignork mircea_popescu: you wouldn't believe amount of horribly broken code which blows up in ipv6 environment, anything from integer overflows,crashes,malfunctions to firewalls leaving your machine exposed [14:25]
mircea_popescu dignork o, i'd believe. [14:26]
ascii_field dignork: we knew. which is why i banned ipv6 in my home, and press for its permanent exclusion from therealbitcoin [14:26]
mircea_popescu ascii_field how is it ipv6's fault! [14:26]
ascii_field elementarily, and all else aside, it makes naked eye analysis of lan traffic considerably more painful [14:27]
mircea_popescu so then use ipv2! [14:27]
ascii_field lol wut [14:27]
williamdunne mircea_popescu: WP Super Cache I think its called, it Caches your HTML and serves that rather than rendering on each load [14:28]
williamdunne So basically like varnish but a bit more shit [14:28]
mircea_popescu how is it like varnish at all ? it's a php script neh ? [14:28]
williamdunne Maybe I'm not remembering what varnish is correctly, but it is a middleware that serves up static HTML instead of asking the server, right? [14:29]
mircea_popescu well, yes, but it stands in front of apache [14:29]
williamdunne Yeah, its a bit like that except serverside [14:29]
williamdunne Not ideal, but better than nothing [14:29]
williamdunne (Until you find a better solution, that is) [14:30]
mircea_popescu maybe i could reimplement apache in php first! then i could run varnish (reimplemented in php too) in front of it and not lose the ips. [14:31]
williamdunne Why not reimplement it in brainfuck? [14:32]
mircea_popescu because much like ada, brainfuck is an actually specified language [14:34]
mircea_popescu so it's probably not fast enough for the web. [14:34]
* ascii_field observes that ada uses gcc backend, but this is already known to most [14:35]
williamdunne ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++. [14:35]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [14:35]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [14:35]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [14:35]
* ascii_field once wrote a forth to brainfuck compiler [14:35]
williamdunne "FXCO Ltd. 2013 - 2016 © All rights reserved" [14:37]
BingoBoingo [14:37]
BingoBoingo [14:37]
assbot jsimnz/fuckfuck · GitHub ... ( ) [14:37]
* assbot removes voice from dignork [14:45]
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pete_dushenski << ascii_field. replied. [14:56]
assbot We fly because we’re loved. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( ) [14:56]
pete_dushenski !up dignork [14:58]
* assbot gives voice to dignork [14:58]
pete_dushenski << anatomy of a closed boxen. [15:01]
assbot Inside the Apple Watch: Technical Teardown | Chipworks Blog ... ( ) [15:02]
mircea_popescu this shit is rich. [15:03]
mircea_popescu [15:03]
assbot Custom Modules - EasyApache - cPanel Documentation ... ( ) [15:03]
mircea_popescu To install a custom module, perform the following steps on the command line as the root user: [15:03]
mircea_popescu Download the custom module archive file to your computer. [15:03]
mircea_popescu With your preferred file transfer method, upload the custom module's archive file to your server's /var/cpanel/easy/apache/custom_opt_mods/ directory. [15:03]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [15:06]
pete_dushenski !up ascii_field [15:06]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [15:06]
davout mircea_popescu: i haven't been using apache for a long long while, but maybe mod_remoteip does what you want, override the source IP by some IP it finds in an HTTP header [15:08]
mircea_popescu yes. except it doesn't run for apache 2.2.x [15:08]
davout klol [15:09]
mircea_popescu among the changes from 2.2 to 2.4 (current) ? alf will appreciate this [15:09]
mircea_popescu Apache 2.4 uses a dynamic modular structure by default. This potentially can cause problems if a LoadModule directive calls a module that was not built into the Apache binary. [15:09]
mircea_popescu EasyApache overrides Apache 2.4's default settings and builds modules statically to provide backward compatibility. [15:09]
mircea_popescu static builds are "backwards compatibility" nao [15:10]
williamdunne Is it possible to just search through your code and edit all header["ip_address"] to header["remote_ip"]? [15:10]
williamdunne Or whatever the variable is called [15:10]
mircea_popescu i could even write a perl script to do it... [15:10]
davout i don't get how the structure can be "dynamic modular" and then "cause problems" when stuff isn't built right into apache [15:10]
mircea_popescu davout welcome to technical writing today. [15:11]
davout and wrt to the reference index thing, it's kind of weird that the same stuff would be defined at multiple places anyway [15:11]
davout unless coding is done with Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V [15:12]
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mircea_popescu heh. [15:14]
mircea_popescu Compiling and Installing mod_remoteip on Apache 2.2 [15:14]
mircea_popescu If you are running Apache 2.2, you can thank Takashi Takizawa for backporting mod_remoteip for Apache 2.2.X servers and posting it on his GitHub as mod_remoteip_httpd22. [15:14]
mircea_popescu so what's the wot vote, do i thank " Takashi Takizawa" for his work and download random code offa da github ? [15:15]
mircea_popescu what signatures or anything, it's Takashi Takizawa!! [15:15]
davout patch can't be that large to review [15:15]
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mircea_popescu yeah, i am looking forward to reviewing random code for free. [15:16]
mircea_popescu just another $500 an hour service i do for the world. [15:16]
mircea_popescu incidentally, this is what the stack of shit is built on. "oh, little step X can't be too hard" [15:17]
mircea_popescu fuck you. [15:17]
williamdunne What difference would it make if he had signed it? Its not like you know the guy enough to trust him [15:18]
mircea_popescu but maybe i know someone who does trust him ? [15:19]
mircea_popescu moreover, if i do know some guys who trust him, the cost of obtaining a new Takashi Takizawa is not equal to s/Takashi Takizawa/Takashi Takizawa/ [15:19]
mircea_popescu 448 lines. i am not happy with a dollar a line. not that i'm getting paid or anything. [15:23]
davout yeah well, either you code due diligence or you don't, up to you, never mentioned anything about "reviewing random code for free" [15:28]
* assbot removes voice from dignork [15:29]
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mircea_popescu and if i do, it's wasted. [15:32]
mircea_popescu "there's free as in beer, free as in freedom, and free as in your time has no value" [15:33]
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ascii_field mircea_popescu: one way to look at it is that division of labour never really happened in computing. to the useful point where you can actually safely hand something off to a pro. instead, we're all in a situation not unlike that ru doctor in the polar expedition who had to self-appendectomy [15:34]
mircea_popescu the other way to look at this is that everyone involved in computer software should be sent back to third grade [15:35]
mircea_popescu with a month's supply of daily beatings. [15:35]
pete_dushenski ascii_field: or that zany dentist who did her own root canals. [15:35]
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Adlai probably more like since we at least have (a few old and trusted) machines on our side [15:36]
assbot Prometheus surgery scene - YouTube ... ( ) [15:36]
mircea_popescu now back to the issue : the "backported" thing compiles. apache has no care in the world. [15:37]
mircea_popescu how do you drop modules into apache ? [15:37]
davout williamdunne: thought a bit about your project, sounds like a degenerate case of a stock exchange actually [15:37]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [15:37]
Adlai this is also why the only sane approach to programming depends upon homoiconicity... there's simply too much code for a single human to type by hand [15:37]
Adlai !up ascii_field [15:37]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [15:37]
williamdunne davout: Not sure why it would be degenerate, but yes. Very similar. [15:38]
williamdunne Hence >Sorta like an MPEX for people [15:38]
davout williamdunne: because if your work consists of projects X, Y, and Z you can decide to raise capital separately for each of them separately on a stock exchange, not only as "here's me, throw money at me" [15:39]
williamdunne Thats the point [15:39]
williamdunne If you believe that someone has the potential to do something great, but do not know how many attempts it may take them to do so, it allows you to bet on their success rather than the success of the current project [15:40]
davout in this case a stock market would have the advantage of making shitty stuff fail earlier [15:41]
williamdunne I'm hoping it just increases the velocity, so shitty stuff fails sooner and good stuff succeeds sooner [15:42]
davout "i didn't even get to try projects X and Y because the market told me it was retarded", on the other hand Z was pretty successful" [15:42]
williamdunne X Y and Z have a number of other metrics you can use to attain success i.e revenue growth [15:43]
davout what other metric than money did you have in mind? [15:43]
ascii_field wake me up when there is actually the money floating around to give anything serious at all its minimal take-off velocity. [15:44]
ascii_field (to a first approximation, afaik, there isn't) [15:44]
williamdunne davout: Growth of userbase etc, its not meant to be a sure-fire bet to make money [15:44]
williamdunne Its also more restrictive, as its not restricted to projects. i.e a student could use it if doing some sort of professional degree [15:46]
williamdunne Really the idea is just making it possible to invest in people rather than things [15:46]
Adlai ascii_field: on the contrary, the money is there, but it's steered by people who prefer to fund [15:47]
assbot ... ( ) [15:47]
williamdunne Although your issue could somewhat solved by allowing shareholders to allocate what money goes where [15:47]
ascii_field williamdunne: it is already possible. pick your favourite people and give $1m to each, in unmarked benjies. [15:48]
davout that's kind of a basic mistake here, assuming you can invest in things, if I buy a bitcoin asset I'm really investing in the people running it, not in some ethereal abstract "thing" [15:48]
davout williamdunne: shareholders being able to allocate "what money goes where" is pretty much a stock market [15:48]
williamdunne davout: If I believe paymium will possibly fail, but that you're going do something great in the future, I would be better off investing in you than paymium [15:48]
williamdunne davout: true [15:49]
mircea_popescu heh. mkay, i got it, now it's terribly broken :D [15:55]
williamdunne davout: Basically its no longer a bet on whether or not the project is retarded, but whether or not you're retarded [15:57]
williamdunne mircea_popescu: What is? [15:57]
davout mircea_popescu: good good, let the broken http requests flow through you [15:57]
mircea_popescu anyway, at least now i know what needs fixing [15:57]
davout williamdunne: my main point is that this is already what you're doing when buying a BTC-denominated asset that's run by someone and that your idea removes more value than what it adds to the stock exchange value proposition [16:00]
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davout but hey, at the end of the day you're the one doing the work! [16:00]
williamdunne davout: well it wouldn't be BTC denominated, but yeah. While it certainly removes some things, its not targeted at people who would need those things [16:02]
lobbes ... If I believe paymium will possibly fail, but that you're going do something great in the future, I would be better off investing in you than paymium << In this case, wouldn't you just wait until he creates the project you think -will- succeed and invest in that? [16:03]
williamdunne lobbes: Potentially so, although of course that assumes that you have the capacity to do so, and he has the capitulation to get to that point [16:04]
ascii_field capitulation ?! [16:05]
* ascii_field head-desks [16:05]
davout ascii_field: looks like my french-ness shows even through IRC [16:05]
davout williamdunne: you're not making sense [16:06]
williamdunne ascii_field: Sorry for word derpage [16:06]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [16:08]
davout !up ascii_field [16:08]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [16:08]
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mircea_popescu hallelujah! [16:19]
mircea_popescu i think i actually got it. [16:19]
* assbot gives voice to Pierre_Rochard [16:19]
mircea_popescu someone be so kind to leave a comment on trilema so i see if teh ip is alright ? [16:20]
williamdunne k [16:20]
williamdunne Error 503 Service Unavailable [16:20]
williamdunne Service Unavailable [16:20]
williamdunne Guru Meditation: [16:20]
williamdunne XID: 1771716550 [16:20]
williamdunne Varnish cache server [16:20]
williamdunne On comment submit [16:20]
mircea_popescu gah [16:21]
williamdunne Okay it worked this time [16:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22065 @ 0.00029325 = 6.4706 BTC [-] [16:23]
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lobbes !up ascii_field [16:42]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [16:42]
jurov mircea_popescu this does not work? [16:43]
assbot mod_remoteip - Apache HTTP Server Version 2.5 ... ( ) [16:43]
mircea_popescu jurov it's for apache 2.4 [16:43]
mircea_popescu which, as discussed in log... [16:43]
jurov i see [16:45]
mircea_popescu well ok, this should be fixed now. [16:46]
mircea_popescu please everyone do report any bullshit coming from trilema! [16:46]
mircea_popescu jurov how do i contribute signed non-bitcoin code to the great codex ? [16:47]
mircea_popescu pls to excuse my noobery. [16:47]
williamdunne mircea_popescu: GitHub is the accepted norm [16:48]
mircea_popescu not here. [16:48]
davout williamdunne: you must be new here [16:48]
trinque that's a paddlin' [16:49]
williamdunne trinque: lol [16:49]
jurov he means btc-dev [16:49]
jurov would make sense to have a new mailing list for nonbtc stuff [16:49]
williamdunne Ahh, I assumed MP meant the varnish code [16:50]
williamdunne mircea_popescu: Still getting; "Looks like you tried to comment off a stale page. Reload the article, count to three and try again." [16:50]
jurov "Server: - Varnished by MP" lol [16:51]
Adlai whence wothub? [16:52]
jurov should i make such list? and on therealbitcoin or some other domain? [16:54]
mircea_popescu jurov not sure if worth the hassle forjust this [16:54]
jurov wothub ain't bad [16:54]
* Adlai envisions 'wothub' as a content-addressable signed patchstore [16:55]
trinque we need that. [16:55]
Adlai so build it trinque ! [16:56]
Adlai stop waiting for other people to take initiative [16:56]
trinque who says I am [16:56]
trinque if I find the time maybe I will [16:56]
trinque not committing to it while I can't guarantee I'll execute [16:56]
* Adlai waits for trinque to take initiative [16:58]
* williamdunne not sure what is wrong with using github with pgp signatures [16:59]
trinque williamdunne: enemy territory [16:59]
trinque it should be hosted in-wot [16:59]
williamdunne What difference does it make if you have local backups and its all signed? [16:59]
williamdunne Not like they can modify the code or take it from you, just delete it from their servers [17:00]
williamdunne Hardly a dealbreaker IMO [17:00]
trinque why have factories in the US when China will produce everything for us cheaper? [17:00]
trinque it's a matter of growing infrastructure [17:00]
trinque and expertise [17:00]
Pierre_Rochard why not both? mirror on github, run your own git server [17:01]
davout while github is not an option i'm with williamdunne here, git is nice and having a foundation-operated git server would be a good thing imo [17:01]
trinque I am also in favor of git [17:01]
Pierre_Rochard ^ yes [17:01]
mircea_popescu how gpg friendly is it ? [17:01]
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Pierre_Rochard it’s ssh friendly, send your ssh pubkey signed with your gpg key [17:02]
Adlai !s darcs [17:02]
assbot 25 results for 'darcs' : [17:02]
williamdunne You can store anything on git, so nothing stopping you from attaching signatures [17:02]
davout mircea_popescu: i think you can sign commits, also it can't really be less gpg-friendly than throwing tarballs around [17:02]
davout looking into it [17:03]
Adlai fwiw, darcs is much more friendly to the "signed patch" model of modification; git is better for 'signed code'; and neither are perfect [17:03]
Adlai (git only lets you sign merkle roots of the source code, rather than diffs) [17:04]
mats git and github is not so great [17:04]
Adlai although... signed roots are kinda what you want [17:04]
Adlai mats: what's wrong with git itself? [17:04]
davout [17:04]
assbot Git - Signing Your Work ... ( ) [17:04]
davout Adlai: "In more recent versions of Git (v1.7.9 and above), you can now also sign individual commits." [17:05]
mats overengineered, cvs is often good enough [17:05]
trinque eh [17:05]
trinque no way [17:05]
Adlai LOL [17:05]
davout blergh [17:05]
Adlai !b 4 [17:05]
assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [17:05]
Adlai fuck [17:05]
trinque branching is good, merging is good [17:05]
davout Adlai: c-c-c-combo breaker [17:05]
Adlai mats: shirley you're joking [17:05]
trinque having one goddamn tower that can get skullfucked by orcs is bad [17:06]
williamdunne git >>>>>>> cvs [17:06]
williamdunne I'll keep my commits thank you very much [17:06]
Adlai davout: the "sign commits" feature still essentially consists of signing a merkle root of the source tree; darks lets you sign the patch [17:06]
trinque prudent I think to discuss which DVCS to use [17:06]
trinque but DVCS by god [17:06]
Adlai there's stuff to be said for either side... tbh, it seems like signing merkle roots is what yall want [17:07]
davout Adlai: well, from what i understand of the docs, you can sign -individual commits- which is a new feature because originally it could only do what you say [17:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53300 @ 0.00030083 = 16.0342 BTC [+] {3} [17:08]
davout now, how you verify them, and how you enforce mandatory signature is something else [17:08]
Adlai davout: an "individual commit" is still just a hash of the commit message + merkle root of the source tree [17:08]
trinque davout: sounds like fancy hooks [17:08]
trinque to reject bad pushes [17:08]
Adlai so, it's less convenient for signing a patch relative to an upstream repo; but is exactly what you want if you just want to have a single head to put on a stake when heardbleed 2.0 gets uncovered [17:09]
davout trinque: that's one thing, the other is: whenever i pull i want to verify it independently [17:09]
trinque indeed [17:09]
williamdunne *clone [17:09]
Adlai so you either want darcs with every single patch signed, or git [17:10]
davout Adlai: you're probably right, i think the difference isn't that important though, the point of the wot is to make an identity valuable [17:10]
Adlai git has the advantage of a single signature covering the entire current state; darcs has the advantage of letting a single signature cover changes alone. it's really a question of use case [17:10]
Adlai the real problem is technophobia, "I trust nothing other than butterflies and sed" [17:11]
Adlai ... but whence the sed binary? [17:11]
ascii_field not the git thing again [17:11]
davout they're functionally equivalent, but i guess that if darcs is a better fit, why not [17:12]
Adlai they're not! the darcs model would've let mircea_popescu submit a single fix to apache, whereas the git model requires him to sign the entire apache source tree [17:12]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:13]
Adlai !up ascii_field [17:13]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:13]
davout Adlai: they're functionnaly equivalent, not identical, the functionality in this case being the identification of the head to chop off [17:13]
Adlai either approach lets you determine which fingers inserted which code [17:14]
williamdunne davout: How is that different to git? You can blame individual lines of coding using git [17:14]
davout Adlai: that's exactly my point [17:14]
ascii_field git is pernicious for safety-critical code because it - however slightly - reduces the expectation that every line of diff is attentively read [17:14]
trinque this is a social problem [17:15]
ascii_field by making it easy to process heavy diffs [17:15]
trinque not a technology problem [17:15]
trinque max commit size and beatings [17:15]
davout ^this [17:15]
ascii_field i do -not- want nonhumanreadable state in source. [17:15]
ascii_field it is an abomination. [17:15]
Adlai what's 'nonhumanreadable'? [17:15]
ascii_field can't be cat'd to a vt100. [17:16]
ascii_field or line printer. [17:16]
davout ascii_field: is a tarball human readable? [17:16]
trinque gits data model is... lemme see if I can remember; it's been a while since I wrote a postgresql fdw into it [17:16]
williamdunne [17:16]
assbot bitcoin-central/lib/liberty_reserve/client.rb at master · davout/bitcoin-central · GitHub ... ( ) [17:16]
trinque commit points to other commits and a tree, tree points to tree entries, which point to blobs [17:16]
davout williamdunne: whiskey tango foxtrot [17:16]
ascii_field davout: if uncompressed - very much so [17:16]
trinque all things are blobs, even the aforementioned [17:16]
trinque keys are hashes [17:16]
trinque what's not to understand [17:16]
williamdunne davout: blame tool [17:16]
trinque then you have the tool atop that data model which yes, has all kinds of bullshit [17:17]
trinque but the data model itself is easily understood [17:17]
trinque and inspectable by human eyes [17:17]
Adlai trinque: darcs is even simpler, but has the disadvantage (which was previously mentioned as an advantage!) of allowing people to submit changes which cause malicious behavior when combined with previously-signed changes [17:17]
davout williamdunne: look what's your point here? that one can git-blame? [17:17]
williamdunne pretty much [17:17]
davout williamdunne: everybody fucking knows that [17:17]
trinque lol [17:17]
Adlai williamdunne: the problem here is more one of convincing ascii_field that there exists trustworthyness outside of his own skull [17:18]
williamdunne Ah okay, not sure if I can help with that. [17:18]
trinque so the process of establishing trust should be human and involve eyes [17:18]
trinque the process of managing a bunch of feature branches and shit, I want a tool [17:18]
trinque doing that manually doesn't make me smarter. [17:18]
Adlai signed tarballs are still corruptible, if your tar (or gpg) binary is diddled [17:18]
trinque everything is [17:18]
Adlai really this is all masturbation until we have a by-hand constructible fab [17:19]
trinque !rate dickhead -10 committed 1000 lines of god knows what [17:19]
assbot dickhead is not registered in WoT. [17:19]
trinque that's how you fix that [17:19]
* Adlai dogwalks and drinks away the shittiness of modern computing [17:20]
davout ascii_field: would you have no problem with a tool that you can bypass, and build the source with the actual signed commits ? [17:21]
Adlai sorry, not just regular old wanking - *competitive* masturbation [17:21]
* chetty has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [17:21]
davout according to Adlai it isn't really practical to do with git, however, if darcs can output actual clearsigned diffs that would allow one to re-construct the same source tree by hand and check the sigs manually [17:22]
ascii_field davout: problem is not just the build [17:22]
ascii_field davout: but that git etc make adding crud easy [17:22]
Adlai davout: it's doable with git, although requires numerous calls to sha256sum and building 'ls' output by hand [17:23]
ascii_field and creates the expectation of using git [17:23]
Adlai darcs is much easier to reproduce by hand, since it's JUST applying signed patches [17:23]
trinque ascii_field: doesn't this apply to the use of power tools? [17:23]
trinque shouldn't use them because an idiot will just end up without an arm? [17:23]
davout ascii_field: i'm with trinque here, it's a social problem, not to be solved by tools [17:23]
Adlai trinque: this applies to the use of silicon that you didn't forge yourself [17:23]
davout but by the wot [17:23]
Adlai ascii_field is just choosing to trust intel/amd/etc [17:23]
trinque right, I can guarantee at least that I have no qualms screaming at a person that's done wrong [17:24]
ascii_field Adlai: it is a mistake to conclude that i trust [17:24]
Adlai well, we're choosig a point at which we give up on paranoia as overly hampering [17:24]
Adlai and arguing over where exactly that point is [17:24]
ascii_field notice that you -can- use git etc personally, no prob [17:24]
ascii_field but this is not what git aficionados want. they expect -me- to use it if i want to participate [17:25]
ascii_field and to have the canonical representation of the project be a git turd [17:25]
trinque well, the social experiment would be instructive, would it not? [17:25]
* Adlai is making too many typos to continue participating in the discourse [17:25]
ascii_field trinque: go 'experiment' with boeing's avionics code [17:26]
Adlai last thought: a signed-patch-dev mailing list, and some trivial darcs wrapper that consumes attachments from that mailing list to frob any random repository, whether git, darks, or - for mats's's benefit - cvs. left as an exercise to the reader. [17:26]
ascii_field will be an interesting social experiment, yes [17:26]
trinque ascii_field: if people cannot be brought to obey processes, how can any group activity ever occur? [17:26]
Adlai note that darcs does NOTHING beyond 'patch -p1 < thingy' [17:27]
trinque ^ [17:27]
ascii_field Adlai: go ahead and use it then [17:27]
ascii_field but don't expect me to [17:27]
Adlai it needs to be written first :) [17:27]
* Adlai dogwalk [17:27]
ascii_field wtf is so hard to understand re: 'the canonical representation of the project must be human-readable' ? [17:27]
trinque it should be noted that ascii_field's profession as I understand it is knowing how attacks occur [17:27]
trinque and I respect that [17:28]
trinque and "speed" of development should not be a value [17:28]
ascii_field trinque: it is a mistake to conclude that i am bringing deep wisdom from some 'respectable society' profession here. i am deliberately and profanely pissing on 'best practices' [17:29]
trinque ascii_field: seems you should write up what you think is an appropriate process for maintaining a "mainline" branch [17:29]
trinque ascii_field: I am referring to you, not an industry [17:29]
ascii_field why? because we have a little problem with vermin, in computing [17:29]
ascii_field and the only solution, at this point, is neutron bomb [17:29]
trinque certainly [17:29]
ascii_field i don't have the neutron bomb yet. so we're stuck with flamethrowers [17:29]
davout ascii_field: i hear your points [17:30]
ascii_field but even so, anyone who wants - davout, trinque, et al - can use favourite versioncontrolsystem at home [17:30]
trinque ascii_field: I would be pleased with a process that allowed for that, but that there is only one route to "released" [17:30]
trinque and think you're on the money re: how that should operate [17:30]
ascii_field i mean, when you write own contributions, you can generate them however you like [17:31]
ascii_field so long as the output is a unix patch [17:31]
trinque sure, I see room for collaborating on feature branches though [17:32]
ascii_field incidentally, for readers unfamiliar with the overall thread, the project under discussion - therealbitcoin - does not belong to me. it is run by ben_vulpes and mod6. who appear to agree with my position here. [17:32]
trinque ben_vulpes uses git in his day to day work, and I'm sure for a reason [17:33]
trinque or if not that some other dvcs [17:33]
ascii_field it is worth repeating precisely -why- i specified 'unix patches' to be the canonical representations [17:33]
williamdunne Maybe there is a good reason why this would not work, but could you not just generate an XML file that contains the names of all the files, a hash of each file, and then sign the XML? Could be automated fairly easily and would work on top of existing solutions [17:33]
ascii_field the ultimate product is to be a series of -human-auditable- diffs, each small and extremely narrowly focused, starting from classical bitcoind 0.5.3. [17:33]
ascii_field this is to establish -pedigree- [17:33]
trinque williamdunne: XML nein [17:34]
williamdunne trinque: some sort of record of the files and shasums then [17:34]
ascii_field williamdunne: we have this. 'manifest' [17:34]
trinque williamdunne: this is what the tree in git already is [17:34]
trinque pile of hashes and blobs they refer to [17:34]
ascii_field it is how i specified a de-crufted subset of 0.5.3's files on day 1 [17:34]
ascii_field (diff does not offer a simple way to say 'deleted whole file') [17:35]
trinque so it lacks information [17:35]
ascii_field trinque: my opposition to git et al as canonical representations is because they have -any- 'behind the scenes' components. [17:35]
trinque I agree 100% that "canonical" as the outside world is made to see it should not be a git repo [17:35]
ascii_field as well as reasons listed earlier. [17:35]
trinque and understand your rationale [17:36]
trinque I think hackers here would just like to collaborate via something other than email [17:36]
trinque it's a shitty interface and I'm not dealing with it [17:36]
trinque doesn't make me feel smart to pluck a patch from an email attachment [17:36]
ascii_field trinque: automate. [17:36]
trinque and that approaches dvcs [17:37]
ascii_field and pluck from jurov's www forum. [17:37]
ascii_field trinque: no, it does not. because there is no hidden state. [17:37]
trinque I don't agree with "hidden" re: the state of git [17:37]
trinque but then I've been all through the internals of it [17:37]
ascii_field what's in a '.git' ? [17:37]
ascii_field and more importantly, wtf should i have to care [17:37]
trinque database of hashes and binary wads [17:37]
trinque it's just a key value store [17:38]
ascii_field and before long folks will want forking/branching [17:38]
trinque this is sensible, sometimes work begins on a feature that's later abandoned [17:38]
ascii_field and then comes the use of central server, and of ssl [17:38]
trinque or postponed [17:38]
trinque naaah [17:38]
trinque git solves this problem, and I can even email you a patch directly out of git [17:38]
ascii_field trinque: how is branching not hidden state ? [17:38]
trinque explain to me what is hidden [17:38]
trinque that it is a binary db? [17:39]
ascii_field i can't pipe a branched repo to a line printer [17:39]
mircea_popescu << and younger [17:39]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 16:23:44; BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu is basically a better read, less geographically restricted, and paler Qadaffi [17:39]
davout if darcs is able to output clearsigned unix patches i really don't see a reason not to use it, we can still review small individual units of work, and ascii_field's patches integrate gracefully [17:39]
ascii_field use it, so long as i don't have to know anything about it [17:39]
trinque to the extent that we do it right ascii_field should not have to care [17:39]
trinque yes [17:39]
mircea_popescu in other news, noiw im getting shit like Host: Hx92_x02 in the logs. [17:39]
mircea_popescu can't possibly be a problem rite ? [17:40]
ascii_field trinque: and if any of you produce a 100kB patch, and i barf on general principle and refuse to have anything more to do with project, don't say i didn't warn that vcs is harmful. [17:40]
davout trinque: "to the extent that we do it right ascii_field should not have to care" <<< that should be the criteria [17:40]
ascii_field for the record, i use all kinds of odd tools internally [17:40]
ascii_field but would never expect other folks to take that kind of radiation damage [17:41]
davout ascii_field: that's what's being said, it's a good tool if ascii_field doesn't know about it :D [17:41]
ascii_field aha. [17:41]
trinque I agree [17:42]
ascii_field when i suddenly am expected to care what's in some xml turd, or expose a box to the net just to fetch changes, or similar atrocities - i reach for barf bag [17:42]
trinque I promise to barf myself if XML creeps in [17:43]
davout ascii_field: i have some "Air France" branded ones if you're into sophisticated barfing [17:43]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:43]
trinque !up ascii_field [17:43]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:43]
ascii_field davout: i took an 'aerolinas argentinas' bag home [17:43]
ascii_field ty trinque [17:43]
mircea_popescu "expose a box to the net just to fetch changes" << what, you want it to divine the changes ? [17:44]
ascii_field nah removable storage [17:44]
mod6 <+ascii_field> ... it is run by ben_vulpes and mod6. who appear to agree with my position here. << yup. [17:48]
trinque ascii_field: if there were even something which made the relationships between patches data, I would be satisfied. [17:52]
trinque that's really *all* I want [17:53]
BingoBoingo and the only solution, at this point, is neutron bomb << Better make sure your z-weighted sheilding is completely cobalt free... [17:53]
trinque ok, this is how I get to the point where I can work on feature X [17:53]
trinque this is how I build out to current release [17:53]
trinque the mailing list is a shitty version of this [17:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31300 @ 0.0003015 = 9.437 BTC [+] {2} [17:53]
trinque seems like an ID of a patch would obviously be some hash of it [17:54]
trinque so then just a tree of IDs [17:54]
trinque to synthesize one point from that pile, I want the computer to strongly enforce relationships for me, not to mindlessly build because I'm too lazy [17:56]
jurov trinque, it uses SHA1 as ID [17:58]
trinque what does [17:58]
trinque git, yeah [17:59]
trinque this is a hypothetical [17:59]
mod6 the mailing list [17:59]
trinque ah ok [17:59]
jurov no, btc-dev mailinglist it even renames the recognized signed attachemnts so [17:59]
trinque so where's the tree of hashes that tells me what builds towards the release [18:00]
trinque some email somewhere [18:00]
trinque structured data is pretty cool. [18:00]
jurov if you can propose some format for this accepted by stakeholder like alf, you're welcome [18:01]
jurov it's shell scripts atm [18:01]
trinque just thinking through it; I have no need to change nor authority to change a process that works for them [18:01]
ascii_field i'd be open to a purely gnumake-based thing instead of the sh [18:01]
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cazalla so Warrick County got back to me regarding the ransomware (in comic sans no less) [18:13]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:14]
cazalla qntra/trilema down here so can't update : [18:14]
BingoBoingo cazalla: Qntra was up for me until you said that, Wonder what MP is coding or building nao... [18:16]
jurov adding moar exploits to apache [18:18]
cazalla <<< but the grocer isn't engaged in things similar to the mafioso such as robbing other businesses, so i don't see how the analogy fits.. if ya gonna throw rocks, steal beauty products and impede mr fireman's ability to put out fires by cutting hoses, why not open up on them too? [18:19]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 13:51:08; mircea_popescu: what's next, italian gangster and italian greengrocer = "italians" ? [18:19]
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jurov the greengrocer prolly caused mass development of explosive gases [18:21]
mircea_popescu << and what is then your remaining incentive to realise any future income ? [18:25]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 16:33:22; williamdunne: i.e I sell 40% of all my future income for xx btc today [18:25]
mircea_popescu this was kinda popular with "artists" thinking themsleves above prostitution on myfreecams and etsy. [18:25]
mircea_popescu it never took off. [18:25]
williamdunne mircea_popescu: Getting to keep the other 60% [18:25]
mircea_popescu unless you pull a bugsy and sell 500% [18:26]
williamdunne Sure. That can be prevented though [18:26]
mircea_popescu o it can ? [18:26]
williamdunne That exact problem could exist with regular stocks. Whats the incentive for Exxon to keep generating revenue? Start up, sell out, cash out, bro down [18:27]
williamdunne Yeah, don't let them sell 500% of their income [18:27]
trinque who doesn't let them [18:28]
williamdunne The operator, its not like they're selling 40% of £40,000/year, they're selling 40% of whatever they make, with no guarantees of said figure [18:28]
trinque why invest in workers when you can invest in the businesses that own them? [18:29]
mike_c this HYIP sounds awesome. put me down for 500% of it. [18:30]
williamdunne trinque: Because people live on a different timeperiod to the company in many cases [18:30]
williamdunne *are alive for [18:30]
trinque eh that's just shitty businesses [18:31]
williamdunne if(percentage > 100) [18:31]
williamdunne return "fuck off" [18:31]
mircea_popescu ... [18:31]
mike_c s/100/0/ [18:31]
mircea_popescu im not sure you understand the difference between natural and constructive persons [18:32]
jurov why can't you just get normal loan? [18:32]
mircea_popescu but let's indulge : exxon can't smoke fucking dope. [18:32]
mircea_popescu EVERY human looking to sell his future is into smoking dope. [18:32]
williamdunne And thats part of the risk [18:32]
williamdunne jurov: Maybe you can, this is an alternative. [18:33]
trinque no that's it; the more you're willing to sell your future the higher risk "investment" you are [18:33]
trinque williamdunne: ^ [18:33]
williamdunne Indeed, I'm not talking bout some sort of service where 100 people deposit money and then a "money manager" decides who to invest in [18:34]
williamdunne The entire point is its meant to be risky as shit [18:35]
mike_c mircea_popescu: you could install nginx and not install varnish. it will cache shit quite nicely [18:36]
williamdunne Its not really a unique idea though, been done twice as far as I can tell. Both started in US but had obvious legal issues come up [18:36]
jurov oh it has been done many millions of times [18:37]
jurov like, parents invest into you nd then expect to get a "reasonable" part of your income [18:37]
williamdunne I mean the platform, not the general idea of selling future income [18:37]
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williamdunne ofc thats been done a shit ton [18:38]
williamdunne Governments constantly do it without consent [18:38]
mircea_popescu mike_c yeah, im a day wasted in here. i could waste another one. sure. [18:38]
mircea_popescu excelt niginx also won't work. [18:38]
mircea_popescu for reasons. [18:38]
jurov williamdunne: so why do you want to undergo this, when most everyone hates it? [18:39]
williamdunne jurov: Did quite well on the other platforms until the SEC stepped in, not particularly large time investment needs to be made. [18:39]
trinque jurov: sounds like someone who doesn't deserve a loan begging with "no dude, I'll like, do anything, man!" [18:40]
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trinque the recourse for that person is to go find someone for whom to tape boxes shut [18:40]
trinque not to be handed more money to waste [18:40]
jurov williamdunne: that's not answer to "why" [18:40]
trinque aside from the foolishness of this from an investment perspective, it's not helping the guy any [18:41]
jurov trinque: ikr. but want to see the thought process why it supposedly beats other alternatives [18:42]
trinque on the other side sure, if you've got goons (read: massive govt) to beat payment out of people, loan sharking is great [18:42]
williamdunne jurov: "Because potentially it could make money, its an excuse to learn more tech, and there is little risk in terms of what I could lose by doing it" [18:42]
mircea_popescu ok, so the sad story of my wasted day : first, instlaled varnish in 10 minutes, but then spent 4 hours trying to get ip forwarding. [18:43]
mircea_popescu finally found a way to do that. EXCEPT it injects random data at random intervals, i end up with "ips" like "8�b]" [18:43]
mircea_popescu and well... spend another 4 hours debugging that. [18:43]
mircea_popescu lesson learned ... do not try to actually use software. [18:43]
mircea_popescu it's not usable. [18:44]
mike_c nginx always works. I have never been disappointed in it. Recommending shit to people is always a -EV process, but.. [18:44]
mircea_popescu it would have been cheaper to buy a server. if i were to bill 8 hours it'd be enough to buy a fucking rack, and that's for doing stuff i actually like doing. [18:44]
jurov haven't i wrote somewhere that every productive day ends with patch or bugreport? [18:46]
mircea_popescu so you have. [18:46]
jurov and i don't enjoy that, too. but such is life. [18:46]
mircea_popescu pretty ridiculous life. [18:47]
jurov << twas today [18:47]
assbot Self-compiled Seafile fileserver does not respond, web downloads hang · Issue #1119 · haiwen/seafile · GitHub ... ( ) [18:47]
williamdunne [18:48]
williamdunne [18:48]
williamdunne trinque: reasons they gave [18:48]
assbot How it Works - Backers ... ( ) [18:48]
assbot Upstart ... ( ) [18:48]
jurov there's this saying about inspiration and perspiration, you know [18:48]
mircea_popescu jurov dude, come on, it's ridiculous. imagine if cars worked like software works. [18:49]
jurov oh, they did, until very recently [18:50]
mircea_popescu "sorry honey, can't come to dinner, i'm apparently unable to find the entry to the brooklyn bridge today" [18:50]
mircea_popescu "yes i know five billion people found it before. and yet..." [18:50]
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mircea_popescu "musta been a different car - and - gasoline combination i guess. going back (on foot) to gas station trying some more combos" [18:51]
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trinque the changes which resulted in the present state should be data [18:51]
trinque this in any computer system worth a shit [18:51]
mircea_popescu and cars NEVER worked like software works, outside of a laurel and ollie short [18:51]
trinque unix's "everything is a file" is a poor man's "everything is data" [18:52]
mircea_popescu [18:53]
assbot Laurel and Hardy....Imagine what could happen if IKEA started selling cars.... - YouTube ... ( ) [18:53]
trinque lol [18:53]
jurov i have 14y old daewoo, we can split "never ever" hairs but the end result and frustration is the same [18:53]
mircea_popescu see jurov, the thing is... i have the OPTION to not own obscure exotic cars whose maker went out of business shortly after starting because he sucked. [18:54]
mircea_popescu i can buy a fucking bmw. [18:54]
mircea_popescu there ISNT a bmw here. it's varnish or nginx. that's it. not like i'm running unheard-of-software [18:54]
jurov and you can not have trilema running on php [18:55]
mircea_popescu like sealion or w/e [18:55]
jurov redo in in CL [18:55]
mircea_popescu what'd i run it on ? [18:55]
mircea_popescu lmao ok. [18:55]
mircea_popescu and where do i find a cl server ? [18:55]
jurov you have your own dc last i remember [18:55]
trinque this is why I'd like a small board for the embedded space that does very little, and runs a lisp [18:55]
mircea_popescu dude. for the love of budha [18:56]
trinque needs a starting point [18:56]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [18:56]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:56]
* ascii_field is still wondering how mircea_popescu can use that cthonian horror, cpanel [18:56]
mircea_popescu the fact that i own a gas station does in no way alleviate the problem that laurel&hardy cars. [18:56]
trinque taking on the whole goddamn space is an enormous challenge to say the least [18:56]
mircea_popescu ascii_field works way better than this shit, ftr. [18:56]
ascii_field ahahahahaha [18:56]
mircea_popescu it.does. [18:56]
ascii_field ok i'll bite. how do i remove apache and get nginx [18:56]
ascii_field all traces of apache [18:57]
mircea_popescu nginx works atop apache [18:57]
jurov what???? [18:57]
ascii_field wat?!! [18:57]
mircea_popescu srsly. [18:57]
ascii_field mno. [18:57]
mircea_popescu in cpanelworld, yeah it does. [18:57]
mircea_popescu it's a proxy for apache. [18:57]
ascii_field this feels like using winblows [18:58]
mircea_popescu it IS [18:58]
ascii_field i was even about to use the apache (all i need is to proxy to my proggy which has own http stack) but then i find that there is no /etc/apache2 [18:59]
ascii_field and that the motherfucking cpanel thing puts it fuck knows where [18:59]
jurov i have everything built as nginx OR apache(never both of them) in extra process, PHP/Perl/Python in extra process(es) [18:59]
trinque every bakery should have their own software team because no real scotsman would pay someone else to do that [18:59]
trinque the lack of a turnkey solution here is absurd, just a shitty industry [19:00]
jurov nothing like mod_php monstrosities [19:00]
ascii_field *why* is it not in the standard location ? [19:00]
ascii_field what kind of dope had to be taken, to conceive of this ? [19:00]
trinque why is the standard location not enforced? [19:00]
jurov standard location on debian is /etc/httpd [19:01]
ascii_field should be enforced using club with nails [19:01]
jurov or it was redhat, dunno [19:01]
* trinque will yet have to be persuaded that the relational model does not solve all this [19:01]
trinque system state should be a database, if a simple and perhaps even plaintext one [19:02]
mircea_popescu ascii_field it's called httpd not appache 2 in centos [19:02]
mircea_popescu because REASONS [19:02]
ascii_field aha [19:02]
jurov ^yes [19:02]
mircea_popescu note it is rhel's fault. [19:02]
trinque "hm I didn't like that change I made to the system" << rollback [19:02]
mircea_popescu not cpanel's. [19:02]
trinque "config file is munged" << schema [19:02]
trinque and constriants [19:02]
ascii_field and where are 'sites-available' ? [19:02]
jurov trunque use btrfs? [19:02]
trinque jurov: getting closer yeah [19:02]
trinque but it has to know data structure and barf when it's not followed [19:02]
trinque it needs a reflection system; I want to interrogate the system about its structure [19:04]
trinque I want to be able to declare into that representation of structure new structures [19:04]
trinque in the same way I declare data [19:04]
trinque we were trying to build this at my last job, and fucked it up entirely with braindead concepts from the web space [19:05]
trinque the answer is probably not for example "build all into postgres" as we were doing [19:05]
jurov trinque you need omniprescient entity that declares forever usable schema [19:05]
mircea_popescu ascii_field but while we're doing the "what dope" thing, why the fuck is apache "apache2" [19:05]
ascii_field because there was a mega-rewrite once [19:05]
mircea_popescu so ? [19:05]
trinque jurov: explain? [19:06]
mircea_popescu trinque hardest problem in cs this, dude. naming. [19:06]
trinque yeah, so you need to be able to change structure easily [19:07]
mircea_popescu take the dewey decimal system. [19:07]
jurov every schema-based system ended up with bags of backward compatibility [19:07]
trinque views and actions against the reflection layer [19:07]
williamdunne Guessing some people wanted to kick it old school and not move to the re-write, and there was enough of them that apache updated got called apache2, but thats just a guess [19:07]
mircea_popescu it requires a hard guarantee you will never want more than 10 categories at any level. [19:07]
trinque jurov: yeah views [19:07]
mircea_popescu williamdunne it's exactly what it iwas, and exactly why i asked him the question. [19:07]
trinque relational algebra is the best model I'm aware of for deriving all needed representations of data [19:07]
trinque and you can easily with something that isn't braindead SQL imagine a model where the canonical representation can be changed, and new views derived from the operation taken to produce the new representation [19:08]
jurov wtf views? [19:08]
trinque so operations against the system must also be data [19:08]
jurov how will views solve that in version 1 you have a name=value and in version 2 you need list? [19:08]
trinque jurov: I cannot see how it *doesn't* solve that [19:09]
mircea_popescu he makes them all a tree. [19:09]
mircea_popescu including the leaves. [19:09]
mircea_popescu of the leaves. [19:09]
BingoBoingo it requires a hard guarantee you will never want more than 10 categories at any level. << No, only on the top level... After that you wade into the horror of Cutter numbers [19:09]
mircea_popescu only needs infinity diskspace to declare a constant. [19:09]
trinque no [19:09]
* ascii_field is blithering at the sheer amount of litter that cpanel leaves in every conceivable aspect of system [19:09]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo cutter numbers are a kludgy bolt-on! [19:09]
trinque postgresql can easily produce an array from columns in rows [19:09]
trinque that is an aggregation [19:09]
ascii_field there's perhaps half a meg of generated 'do not edit!!!111!!!' crapolade in every config [19:09]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Kludgy and bolted on to original spec [19:10]
mircea_popescu ascii_field hey, it's data! [19:10]
trinque I can also easily produce a new table which materializes the output of some view [19:10]
trinque I can then delete the base table and call the new materialized table the canonical data [19:10]
trinque and this ad nauseum [19:10]
mircea_popescu so what's keeping you!!eleven [19:10]
trinque the point here is missed; I'm probably not articulating it well [19:10]
mircea_popescu speaking of : mind making deedbot- autovoice yet ? [19:11]
trinque sure, last weekend was eaten by work, but I'll try to work it in soon [19:12]
trinque couple days or so [19:12]
mircea_popescu coo [19:12]
trinque mircea_popescu: what I was referring to above is like the system catalog in SQL [19:12]
trinque lets say you alter a table with some operation; were that operation data, you could programmatically alter views against the old version to be compatible with the new, to some extent [19:13]
trinque obviously if information was lost in the change, you cannot [19:13]
trinque but if the AST of the queries is represented as data you can find that out by joining it against the schema [19:13]
jurov (^^) [19:14]
assbot WinFS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( ) [19:14]
mircea_popescu you're slowly rebuidling hoon here or w/e it was called. [19:14]
jurov also, KDE folks tried it in non-relational way, something kinda works but they managed to annoy everyone in the process [19:15]
jurov go learn from these mistakes [19:16]
trinque the mistake was probably "non-relational [19:16]
trinque " [19:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4877 @ 0.00030165 = 1.4711 BTC [+] [19:17]
trinque relational algebra carries the stink of SQL, and this is unfortunate [19:17]
* JuliaTourianski_ (bc3fac86@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:17]
* JuliaTourianski_ has quit (Client Quit) [19:17]
jurov and what was WinFS mistake? [19:17]
trinque I have to run, dunno what hoon is but I'll see if I can find info on it [19:17]
jurov enlighten us [19:17]
trinque jurov: calm down buddy; I don't have the one true way [19:18]
trinque dunno enough about winfs to say [19:18]
* Adlai readlogs [19:24]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 20:28:40; williamdunne: Maybe there is a good reason why this would not work, but could you not just generate an XML file that contains the names of all the files, a hash of each file, and then sign the XML? Could be automated fairly easily and would work on top of existing solutions [19:25]
williamdunne huh? Already explained why that was retarded [19:26]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [19:26]
mircea_popescu he parses. [19:26]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [19:26]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [19:26]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [19:26]
Adlai tl;r: /me needs to write a thingy that munges btc-dev into a darcs repo, jurov needs to add a general-dev mailing list so mircea_popescu can send his apache paches, and we'll all live ethanolly ever after. ssavvy? [19:29]
mircea_popescu it wasn't going to be a patch [19:30]
Adlai how so? [19:30]
mircea_popescu it was going to be a signed version of 448 lines of code [19:30]
mircea_popescu some other dude wrote. [19:30]
Adlai ok, you sign some other dude's patch. same diff [19:30]
jurov he can publish it on trilema, too. don't see how bag of disparate patches would be useful [19:31]
Adlai because infrastructure! [19:32]
mircea_popescu jurov i don't see it either, but! gotta ask. [19:32]
mircea_popescu this is a problem which will have to be solved, eventually. maybe not by us, maybe not in our lifetimes, [19:33]
mircea_popescu but once women in tech or something. [19:33]
* Adlai actually spend the alcohols chatting with a dark-skinned lady who was 100% coherent despite also partaking of alcohols [19:33]
Adlai so, there is hope for the oppressed-in-tech yet! [19:33]
Adlai the typos resurface thus zzz [19:34]
jurov you mean, she exhibits ballmer peak, thus suitable for tech? [19:34]
Adlai no she exhibited sentient concern for third party (my dog) while verifiably drunk [19:35]
Adlai she was all "this is not a good place for a dog" and i was all "bullshit my dog loves this bar because it's EV patron loves dogs and my dog is lovable" [19:36]
jurov and when she was sober, there was no dog concern? [19:36]
* Adlai has never met her sober, he's home alone now, aside from dog [19:37]
trinque obvious "brought home the wrong bitch" joke there [19:37]
trinque :D [19:37]
Adlai stfu my dog is a mutt [19:37]
Adlai !down trinque [19:37]
Adlai shit [19:38]
trinque hawhaw [19:38]
Adlai !down Adlai [19:38]
* assbot has kicked Adlai from #bitcoin-assets (Bye.) [19:38]
jurov trinque you were supposed to run, not concern yourself with bitches [19:38]
trinque already back [19:38]
trinque what is hoon [19:38]
trinque ah the urbit thing [19:38]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: how -the fuck- does one run a python www proggy on cpanel box [19:38]
* Adlai (~Adlai@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:39]
mircea_popescu you got ssh dontcha ? [19:39]
ascii_field or for that matter anything other than pgp [19:39]
ascii_field php [19:39]
mircea_popescu !up Adlai [19:39]
-assbot- You voiced Adlai for 30 minutes. [19:39]
* assbot gives voice to Adlai [19:39]
Adlai fu mircea_popescu [19:39]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: apache won't play along with python without a plugin 'mod_wsgi' which does not appear to exist in cpanel [19:39]
mircea_popescu !down Adlai [19:39]
* assbot removes voice from Adlai [19:39]
mircea_popescu ascii_field your pain makes me feel better. [19:40]
ascii_field and cannot be retrofitted without being clobbered by cpanel the next time it is used to make any alteration [19:40]
* assbot gives voice to Adlai [19:40]
* Adlai victorious [19:40]
mircea_popescu ascii_field : apxs -i -c -n mod_wsgi.c [19:40]
Adlai (it took a couple tries) [19:41]
mircea_popescu then insert the resulting so into the apache config prepended lists [19:41]
mircea_popescu and you'll be fine [19:41]
* Adlai still doesn't understand why people are fuxing with patchy crap [19:41]
Adlai why not run a real webserver? [19:41]
ascii_field gcc: mod_wsgi.c: No such file or directory [19:41]
mircea_popescu ascii_field obviously you have to first download the mod. [19:41]
ascii_field goddamnit [19:41]
mircea_popescu FROM A RANDOM SOURCE ON THE WEB [19:42]
mircea_popescu don't lose my box nao! [19:42]
ascii_field betcha it was 'lost' as soon as i logged into cpanel [19:42]
Adlai or once you installed it [19:42]
mircea_popescu you logged into cpanel as root ?!@ [19:43]
ascii_field (i never had a key fingerprint for it) [19:43]
Adlai or did the install not involve running anything? [19:43]
ascii_field this box is running ten thousand tonnes of extraneous cpanelism [19:43]
Adlai logged into cpanel as root ?!@ << asif you need root to fandango [19:43]
* Adlai channels vonnegut: "To avoid root, just wait for ree boot" [19:44]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: the apxs ... thing fails with wsgi_python.h:24:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory and half a meg of other crapolade [19:45]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: please consider supplying a normal machine. [19:46]
jurov btw, if a bit lucky, mod_fastcgi was shipped and it's more widely supported than wsgi [19:46]
ascii_field because this borders on the utterly ridiculous. [19:46]
Adlai "wsgi" sounds awfully like "usagi" when said out loud [19:46]
* ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:46]
Adlai aw shucks [19:46]
ben_vulpes not committing to it while I can't guarantee I'll execute << not worth it imho, leave it for someone like williamdunne [19:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so it has no python ios the idea ? [19:47]
ben_vulpes overengineered, cvs is often good enough << haha nice try winbro [19:48]
williamdunne ben_vulpes: eh? [19:48]
williamdunne !s not committing to it while I can't guarantee I'll execute [19:49]
assbot 1 results for 'not committing to it while I can't guarantee I'll execute' : [19:49]
jurov benjy just needed to vent some steam [19:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00030489 = 3.4757 BTC [+] [19:51]
williamdunne "Adlai envisions 'wothub' as a content-addressable signed patchstore" well its doable, but I only have 'x' amount of time [19:51]
trinque the idea needs further development before anyone executes [19:52]
trinque may end up comprised entirely of local tooling [19:52]
williamdunne Yeah, I've not done much when it comes to native applications so anything client-side isn't really my boat [19:53]
williamdunne Don't even know my way around gcc properly [19:53]
jurov i don't get it. "by content addressable" i understand somthing like putting sha1 sum in the URL [19:54]
jurov and what is "patchstore" supposed to to what "store" is not [19:54]
* williamdunne still doesn't understand whats wrong with git and pgp sigs [19:55]
ben_vulpes williamdunne: git makes it easy to pretend to work on a codebase by reindenting things [19:56]
ben_vulpes makes large merges too easy, is at least one of asciilifeform's objections [19:56]
ben_vulpes makes it less likely for people to review changes. [19:56]
jurov and i think other was that git stores them in opaque database. you cannot go to .git and start reading [19:57]
trinque the earlier thread I think well represented the lay of the land [19:57]
trinque having the canonical representation plaintext and readable I think is a fine thing [19:57]
mats ben_vulpes: windows for fun and profit [19:57]
trinque having history machine readable and enforced is I think also a fine thing [19:57]
trinque from there, perhaps no existing tool satisfies both [19:57]
jurov i don't remember anything about enforcing history [19:58]
trinque git may be several conflated problems [19:58]
trinque jurov: I remember saying it. [19:59]
trinque and it's in teh logs [19:59]
ben_vulpes benjy just needed to vent some steam << naw i just wanted to restart an ancient thread [19:59]
jurov oh i GC'd you [19:59]
ben_vulpes wat? [19:59]
jurov not you, trinque [19:59]
jurov anyway, primary is there's verifiable autorship and readable content of patches, plus clear repeatable way to combine the patches [20:01]
williamdunne One of those is a social issue, the other is solved by not accepting pulls from dickheads, no? [20:01]
trinque jurov: indeed, that last bit is what I've been harping on [20:02]
ben_vulpes williamdunne: what is a pull? [20:02]
jurov triuque yes, but it does not necessarily equal to managing history [20:03]
williamdunne ben_vulpes: I don't know if this exists outside of GitHub (I rather assumed it does) but when you fork a repo so its your own version of it, you make changes to your own copy and then request that your changes are merged into the core repo [20:03]
trinque pull requests are github [20:03]
mircea_popescu the idea needs further development before anyone executes << he has a point, and while attempted executions would prlly be useful iterations, it IS a timesink. [20:03]
ben_vulpes no, that's the point i wish to make. you're conflating github with git. [20:03]
ben_vulpes and i'm not even an expert on the finer points of the vcexen in the wild. [20:04]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i suspect in this sense git may be TOO easy to use. at least in some aspects. [20:04]
williamdunne Ah, my bad. [20:04]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: dude i guarantee you that git is too easy to use. [20:04]
ben_vulpes not only for mission-critical shit like therealbitcoin, but even my own work. [20:05]
Adlai jurov: actually, you can go to .git and start reading to a much larger degree than you can do so for .darcs; git provides a provably-attributable signed directory (ie, signed file hierarchy), whereas darcs is a signed diff from... whatever th efuck came before it [20:05]
jurov yes, linus t. pulls changes from email, not using github [20:05]
trinque this idea that the tool controls the user's behavior is absurd [20:05]
trinque maybe when dealing with children [20:05]
trinque this is a distinct point from advocating git [20:05]
trinque the tool does not drive the fucking user [20:05]
williamdunne Git has pull requests in this version: [20:06]
assbot Git ... ( ) [20:06]
mircea_popescu the tool does not drive the fucking user << o really. [20:06]
mircea_popescu what is this idealism! [20:06]
Adlai williamdunne: the problem is that git doesn't provide human-verifiable provenance [20:07]
Adlai (whereas darcs does, but it has its own clusterfuck of troubles) [20:07]
trinque mircea_popescu: when holding my gun should I wear an arm brace such that I am prevented from blowing my brains out? [20:07]
mircea_popescu no, but that's not the angle being discussed. [20:08]
mircea_popescu the angle being discussed is : give a man a hammer, suddenly he's looking for nails. [20:08]
mircea_popescu tools drive behaviour. in spades. [20:08]
trinque that is a fair point [20:09]
* Luke-Jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [20:09]
trinque but should a hammer be called for, one limited such that it cannot be weaponized will also be gimped for hammering [20:10]
* Adlai concludes that he should a) write the btc-dev-darcs-wrapper, and b) keep it to himself, so other people have to write their own [20:10]
trinque ^ I don't like that for the record; let every man forge his own AK [20:10]
trinque surely there's a balance to be struck. [20:11]
Adlai AKs are fucking simple [20:11]
trinque alright, you forge one while I'm loading [20:11]
Adlai no offense but have you ever fired an assault rifle? [20:11]
mircea_popescu Adlai how about b) and make it good enough so its effect upon the world is to make more people of the like adlai can stand [20:11]
mircea_popescu as opposed to more idiots. [20:11]
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Adlai mircea_popescu: aiui, anything that does not consist of 'cat | /dev/eip' is not good enough [20:12]
mircea_popescu there is such a thing as tools that make people smarter. [20:12]
trinque Adlai | no offense but have you ever fired an assault rifle? << this is in no way relevant to what I said [20:12]
mircea_popescu and there are tools that make people dumber. [20:12]
trinque and an automatic no, rifles yes [20:12]
Adlai rifles are for hunters. war is not a hunt, it is war [20:13]
mircea_popescu isn't man the best game ? [20:13]
Adlai 'long pig' [20:13]
trinque obviously, and so you're going to have every soldier cast the metal for his own gun? [20:13]
trinque if you have time for that, great; must not be much of a war [20:13]
mircea_popescu trinque you know he was being facetious right ? [20:13]
jurov since git nor darcs will solve the conflicts... ou propose using the AKs? [20:14]
jurov *you [20:14]
trinque mircea_popescu: must've missed that [20:14]
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* Adlai sleeψ [20:14]
trinque Adlai: cya [20:14]
Adlai nite ite [20:15]
mircea_popescu << expenditure is not, by virtue of that alone, "an investment". [20:16]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 18:43:52; williamdunne: davout: If I believe paymium will possibly fail, but that you're going do something great in the future, I would be better off investing in you than paymium [20:16]
scoopbot_revived News! The sad story of me sniffing varnish URL: [20:16]
assbot The sad story of me sniffing varnish on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [20:16]
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mircea_popescu all the derpy parents that "invest" in their children are making a stylistic choice of words, nothing more. it's a waste not an investment. [20:16]
williamdunne At what point does expenditure become investment? [20:18]
ben_vulpes never. [20:18]
ben_vulpes investment is predicated on a return. [20:18]
mircea_popescu ima have to dig up that ancient article somehow... [20:18]
williamdunne If you expect expenditure to result in a return? [20:18]
mircea_popescu rationally ? [20:19]
ben_vulpes this return cannot be "happiness" or any such. [20:19]
mircea_popescu does your expenditure CAUSE the return ? is it merely coincidental with the return ? is it merely halucinatorily related ? [20:19]
williamdunne I mean monetary [20:19]
mircea_popescu oh i c. [20:19]
ben_vulpes much as the girlies would like to "invest in their quality of life", such is just purchasing a big of hedonism. [20:19]
trinque ben_vulpes: oh have I had that conversation [20:20]
ben_vulpes heh who with a girl hasn't? [20:20]
* mircea_popescu has been blessfully spared of such nonsense. [20:20]
ben_vulpes except for those guys whose lunch we eat and girls we fuck [20:20]
* ben_vulpes rolls eyes [20:20]
ben_vulpes and of course mircea_popescu [20:20]
BingoBoingo obviously, and so you're going to have every soldier cast the metal for his own gun? << Unreasonabru, but Officers outfitting their soldiers to the Officer's chosen spec has ample historical precedent [20:20]
trinque much more reasonable [20:20]
mircea_popescu williamdunne let's go through this, it will be instructive. so, case III, halucinatorily related. [20:22]
mircea_popescu guy pays fortune teller for good stuff in the future. good stuff happens in the future. [20:22]
mircea_popescu the relation between the "investment" and the "return" is purely hallucinated. [20:23]
mircea_popescu case II : coincidental. guy buys lottery ticket. someone wins the lottery. [20:23]
williamdunne someone, or guy? [20:23]
mircea_popescu while it's true that the somebody who wins might even be the guy, the fact remains that someone'd win whether the guy bought or didn't buy ticket. [20:23]
mircea_popescu same thing with "investing in children". sure, you send schmuck to college, and someone 20 years later is going to be well educated. [20:24]
mircea_popescu maybe your schmuck. maybe not. [20:24]
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mircea_popescu case I : causal. this satisfies both implication : with investment there NECESSARILY exists return ; without investment there NECESSARILY doesn't exist return. [20:24]
mircea_popescu like, guy going to homestead in 1800s utah. if he goes, there's going to be his homestead. if he doesn't go... there isn't going to be. [20:25]
ben_vulpes what'd i run it on ? << it's not actually such a bad idea to render the whole thing as flat files and do something cleverish w/comments [20:25]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes more 90% ism! [20:25]
ben_vulpes in cpanelworld, yeah it does. << haha what is this madness [20:25]
mircea_popescu i think asciilifeform had an aneurism meanwhile [20:26]
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williamdunne If I invest in college, and the outcome is a law degree, with which I become a lawyer, how is that not investment? [20:27]
williamdunne I understand with a gender studies degree though.. [20:27]
mircea_popescu if you pay for your own degree, it is. [20:27]
mircea_popescu if your dad pays... eh. [20:27]
williamdunne What if someone else pays for a degree and in return they get a % of my salary? [20:28]
mircea_popescu you being their slave ? [20:28]
williamdunne Their slave? Its a mutual agreement from the beginning [20:29]
mircea_popescu yes, yes. but is it a mutual agreement of that kind, where you're teh slavegirl. [20:29]
williamdunne If you acknowledge La Serenissima are you its slavegirl because you pay 0.1%? [20:30]
mircea_popescu << ssh being, of course, openssl. you read the earlier link re "why no ssl" ? [20:30]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 19:57:06; Pierre_Rochard: it’s ssh friendly, send your ssh pubkey signed with your gpg key [20:30]
mircea_popescu williamdunne no, but i also don't ask it to sent me to college. [20:30]
williamdunne Seems like a pretty rough line, either way its a choice, and the outcome is losing future income in return for something [20:31]
mircea_popescu you're misrepresenting dynamic equilibrium as static. [20:31]
mircea_popescu essentially, you(before the deal) and you(after the deal) are different and irreconciliably so. [20:32]
williamdunne Ah okay, I see the difference now [20:32]
mircea_popescu while before the deal your incentive might have been to realise future income, [20:32]
mircea_popescu after the deal your incentive is to sell more future income for its present value. [20:32]
mircea_popescu as they say, "nothing ruins a start-up quite like a bad money source early on" [20:33]
mircea_popescu this is that. [20:33]
mircea_popescu it's kinda how america ruined itself, too, ironically enough. [20:33]
mircea_popescu << for the record, you don't want a single head. you want a number of heads, and measurably stake-able. [20:35]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 20:04:04; Adlai: so, it's less convenient for signing a patch relative to an upstream repo; but is exactly what you want if you just want to have a single head to put on a stake when heardbleed 2.0 gets uncovered [20:35]
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Pierre_Rochard < not necessarily: [20:39]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 23:25:12; mircea_popescu: << ssh being, of course, openssl. you read the earlier link re "why no ssl" ? [20:39]
assbot OpenSSH No Longer Has To Depend On OpenSSL - Slashdot ... ( ) [20:39]
mircea_popescu aha [20:40]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Confusing OpenSSH and OpenSSL again. [20:41]
mircea_popescu << ha! [20:41]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 20:10:09; trinque: max commit size and beatings [20:41]
Pierre_Rochard BingoBoingo: they really should rebrand… maybe take LibreSSH haha [20:42]
mircea_popescu lol [20:42]
BingoBoingo Pierre_Rochard: Nah, Theo should have trademarked the word "Open" [20:43]
Pierre_Rochard yup, just checked, openbsd came before openssl [20:44]
mircea_popescu << lawl. [20:44]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 20:12:42; davout: williamdunne: everybody fucking knows that [20:44]
BingoBoingo They've got an OpenBSD, OpenSMTP, OpenNTP, OpenSSH, They might as well stick OpenSSL with finding a new front and themselves keep LibreSSL for confusion and lulz [20:44]
mircea_popescu << nah, that's a misstatement. take the simpler case of poems. you do not need any particular microphone, varnish or anything else to know whether my poem's any good or not. [20:45]
asciilifeform asciilifeform so it has no python ios the idea << it has python and even, apparently, the headers, but can't see'em [20:45]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 20:14:38; Adlai: really this is all masturbation until we have a by-hand constructible fab [20:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform welcopme to linux world alfie. i hear it's where the smart boys go. [20:45]
mircea_popescu and never are heard from again, except for muffled cries in the solitude of the night. [20:46]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes i suspect in this sense git may be TOO easy to use << precisely this [20:46]
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asciilifeform reminds me of an old neighbour of mine, who kept a 'colt 1911' - in his toolbox. with the drills, etc. [20:47]
asciilifeform hey, it makes holes, right? [20:47]
mircea_popescu and before anyone doubts that there can be such a thing : you COULD fuck a woman with a 3 inch drill bit attached to a percution drill. [20:47]
asciilifeform and -so easy- [20:47]
mircea_popescu you do not do this. [20:47]
mircea_popescu ha! [20:47]
asciilifeform heh who with a girl hasn't? << nor me either [20:49]
mircea_popescu this discussion makes me not feel so bad about havin sniffed varnish all day. [20:50]
asciilifeform asciilifeform welcopme to linux world alfie << wtf linux world is this. i must've been living in a parallel one since quitting bsd ('04) [20:51]
mircea_popescu yeah. it's called solipsism and it ain't a world! [20:51]
mircea_popescu "oh but MY computer works..." [20:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25089 @ 0.00029383 = 7.3719 BTC [-] {2} [20:51]
mircea_popescu "really ? how do i make one ?" "oh..." [20:51]
asciilifeform fleet of. [20:52]
asciilifeform 'how do i make?' 'like this..' [20:52]
mircea_popescu i am still awaiting your gentoo canonical build being published / your canonical web hoster being enacted on this or any other box etc. [20:53]
mircea_popescu dun let me get in the way of meta-linux, by all means! [20:53]
mircea_popescu << it'd be nice if something got compiled before i die. [20:55]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 20:23:19; trinque: and "speed" of development should not be a value [20:55]
BingoBoingo [20:56]
assbot This Rollin' 60s Crips member says he pulled /justin_fenton to safety today during a flare up. [20:56]
mircea_popescu ascii_field: trinque: and if any of you produce a 100kB patch, and i barf on general principle << there is a problem here. the code as it is is pretty long. just a simple "remove most of it" will be in the kbs. [21:00]
mircea_popescu nothing but -s in the diff [21:00]
mircea_popescu i doubt the magical patch that fixes the 1001 things will fit in 100kb for instance. [21:01]
trinque yeh, I prefer the hate one's peers rather than arbitrary rules [21:01]
trinque *the hate of [21:01]
trinque patches of whatever size make sense, and there's a process by which everyone else can call the patch shit in public [21:01]
mircea_popescu trinque merely calling things shit is no golden bullet. [21:02]
trinque doesn't seem there is one, neh? [21:02]
mircea_popescu unless some sort of consensus can emerge the public'll just split [21:02]
mircea_popescu ascii_field: i'd be open to a purely gnumake-based thing << this before make starts building static or only after ? :D [21:04]
mircea_popescu << sorry bout that. was trying to improve things. went about as well as you'd expect. [21:05]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 21:09:48; cazalla: qntra/trilema down here so can't update : [21:05]
mircea_popescu << recommending shit to me is not necessarily -ev, especially if it works. i have an elephantine memory. [21:08]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 21:38:56; mike_c: nginx always works. I have never been disappointed in it. Recommending shit to people is always a -EV process, but.. [21:08]
mircea_popescu << the thing yarvin was building leaky submarines out of [21:09]
assbot Logged on 28-04-2015 22:12:44; trinque: I have to run, dunno what hoon is but I'll see if I can find info on it [21:09]
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asciilifeform i am still awaiting your gentoo canonical << not even objecting to the linux flavour of that box, but to the cpanel idiocy [21:17]
asciilifeform it poisons every single config on the box, and assumes php [21:17]
mircea_popescu but the python stuff you ran into is pure linux, [21:17]
mircea_popescu the misplaced apache is pure linux [21:17]
mircea_popescu etc. [21:17]
asciilifeform the requiring apache (and not just any, but cpanel's custom) is cpanelism [21:17]
mircea_popescu except it doesn't require apache to run a script [21:18]
mircea_popescu you can just have your python run off cron, and dump stuff into mysql [21:18]
mircea_popescu then fish it out for web display [21:18]
asciilifeform mno. need to serve some static pgs [21:18]
mircea_popescu so create them as files [21:18]
asciilifeform it has to be nginx or a (human) apache [21:18]
mircea_popescu apache will serve them if in the right directories [21:18]
asciilifeform you can just have your python run off cron << how both will restart synchronized ? [21:20]
asciilifeform this is ludicrous [21:20]
mircea_popescu wut ? [21:20]
asciilifeform i want the two to restart together [21:20]
asciilifeform and i want -one- log [21:20]
mircea_popescu the wto who [21:20]
asciilifeform static and dynamic content servers [21:21]
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asciilifeform normally this is achieved by having apache (or nginx) pass through to, e.g., python [21:21]
mircea_popescu you want a python script to be executed on page load ? [21:22]
asciilifeform it isn't a script [21:22]
asciilifeform it's a continuous process [21:22]
asciilifeform that serves up http [21:22]
asciilifeform read the src if interested (under the user i created) [21:22]
asciilifeform simplest possible thing [21:22]
mircea_popescu so you have your own web server written in python ? [21:22]
asciilifeform not own, l0l [21:22]
mircea_popescu move cpanel's apache to a diff port, and allocate 80 to yours. [21:23]
asciilifeform the whole thing was written in about a day, if you recall, in a mighty hurry [21:23]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: again i don't want python serving up statics [21:23]
asciilifeform because it is ludicrous [21:23]
mircea_popescu then have python drop the statics in /home/whatever and apache will automagically serve them ? [21:23]
asciilifeform would like to run the fucking app without changes [21:25]
asciilifeform like normal people. [21:25]
asciilifeform on normal computer. [21:25]
mircea_popescu cpanel has nothing to do with this. [21:25]
asciilifeform normal people can get mod_wsgi if they want it. [21:26]
asciilifeform cpanel - no. [21:26]
asciilifeform normal people can get -pure- nginx [21:26]
asciilifeform cpanel - again, no [21:26]
mircea_popescu move cpanel's apache to a diff port, and allocate 80 to yours. < [21:26]
asciilifeform and apache still runs, eats cycles for fuck knows what [21:27]
mircea_popescu and if python.h fails, you prolly don't have th epaths set up right, it'll fai lthe same with or without some derpy package manager. [21:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform well actually it wouldn't run, especially if you kill that port in firewall. [21:27]
mircea_popescu but you can stop the service in any case. [21:28]
asciilifeform still end up with cpanelism autogenned crapolade in every single fucking thing in /etc [21:28]
asciilifeform hence the traditional 'cpanel is not removable' dictum [21:28]
* mircea_popescu shrugs [21:29]
mircea_popescu linux doesn't work. any of it. picking some random idiocy to make an example of is futile. [21:29]
mircea_popescu gentoo is a piece of shit. debian is a piece of shit. centos is a piece of shit. [21:29]
mircea_popescu apache is a piece of shiot. so is nginx. so is everytrhiong else. [21:29]
* asciilifeform genuinely wonders if mircea_popescu ever runs any www gadget that isn't a php bloggatron [21:29]
mircea_popescu nothing works, everything';s made by idiots. [21:29]
mircea_popescu nope. why would i even bother with www except for a blog [21:30]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu is almost but not entirely right. we are, for instance, presently speaking through an ancient atlantian tech that sorta works. [21:30]
mircea_popescu oh get the fuck out. ircd ? THIS works ? [21:30]
asciilifeform i said 'sorta worx' [21:30]
mircea_popescu SO DOES EVERYTHING ELSE!!!! [21:31]
asciilifeform l0l [21:31]
mircea_popescu foss, the wonderful world of 90% [21:31]
mircea_popescu "we almost did a job!!1" [21:31]
mircea_popescu this, btw, is my constraint. fuck "fits in head", i dun care. [21:31]
mircea_popescu DO.THEWHOLE.JOB. [21:31]
asciilifeform 'fits in head' is how you actually -know- that x 'did whole job' [21:32]
asciilifeform anything else - is conjecture. [21:32]
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mircea_popescu indeed. [21:32]
asciilifeform it is also how you know that x did -nothing but- whole job. [21:32]
asciilifeform so 'fits in head' is 'part of a balanced diet' with 'does whole job' (otherwise brick 'fits in head') [21:32]
mircea_popescu aham. [21:33]
mircea_popescu kinda why i'm discovering all i really like off unix these days is like... curl. grep. [21:33]
asciilifeform eh the only good part of unix is | [21:33]
mircea_popescu somethinglikethat. [21:33]
mircea_popescu and tee. [21:33]
asciilifeform and good old tr [21:33]
* Cromag1 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:38]
mircea_popescu !up Cromag1 [21:38]
-assbot- You voiced Cromag1 for 30 minutes. [21:38]
* assbot gives voice to Cromag1 [21:38]
Cromag1 HI! [21:38]
asciilifeform meow mix? [21:39]
Cromag1 YES! [21:39]
Cromag1 down me! [21:39]
asciilifeform !down Cromag1 [21:39]
* assbot removes voice from Cromag1 [21:39]
trinque asciilifeform's shit detector is impeccable [21:39]
asciilifeform yw Cromag1 [21:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00029075 = 3.7652 BTC [-] {2} [21:39]
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BingoBoingo asciilifeform from the certain corners of the internet department [21:41]
assbot How I Was Backstabbed By Dr. Oz And His Female Producers ... ( ) [21:41]
mircea_popescu is this pickup artist drama ? [21:42]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where does cpanel keep apache's vhost configs, and why is this not documented anywhere ? [21:43]
asciilifeform i've tried three claimed locations so far and none work [21:43]
mircea_popescu i have nfi [21:43]
trinque asciilifeform: there's a question here related to my make the thing a database rant [21:43]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: fatshaming drama [21:43]
Adlai vhost-: help out the poor asciilifeform [21:44]
mircea_popescu o, it's okay to be fat now ? [21:44]
trinque asciilifeform: I think I read on your blog something about how source code should be stored as ASTs not text? [21:44]
trinque something along those lines [21:44]
Adlai fat is the new phat [21:44]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: According to Dr. Oz and Gawker media [21:44]
trinque imo if the state of the system is represented as structured data a lot of these "munge the config more easily" programs go away [21:45]
Adlai trinque: what, you want a table with two columns, CAR and CDR? [21:45]
mircea_popescu delusion is always sweet [21:45]
mircea_popescu and sweets fatten. [21:45]
trinque Adlai: cddditout [21:45]
Adlai no u [21:45]
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trinque Adlai: dear god my sides when [21:48]
assbot ... ( ) [21:48]
trinque let it never be said that cl does not go to 11 [21:48]
jurov this is SOP except in chumpatron where mircea lives. [21:48]
assbot Logged on 29-04-2015 00:17:42; mircea_popescu: so you have your own web server written in python ? [21:48]
danielpbarron BingoBoingo, that guy is a wimp. that kinda situation doesn't have to end so poorly [21:49]
assbot MEN ARE BETTER THAN WOMEN - YouTube ... ( ) [21:49]
Adlai trinque: arguably, it doesn't: [21:49]
assbot ... ( ) [21:49]
trinque hawhawhaw [21:49]
BingoBoingo danielpbarron: I'm just astounded at how he suggests he anticipated his appearance on the show could be anything other than a trap and how he failed to prepare accordingly [21:50]
danielpbarron yeah i'm waiting for the end of the article where he admits to satire [21:52]
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* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [21:55]
pete_dushenski "Orioles will play Wednesday's game vs White Sox with NO audience in the stands." << heh. one for BingoBoingo. [21:55]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: At least Ferguson is decently removed from the St Louis city center [21:56]
pete_dushenski eh. st louis could use a kick in the pants from what i hear. [21:57]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: In which manner? [22:00]
asciilifeform how the everliving fuck is cpanel used with anything other than php/static wwwtron [22:01]
mircea_popescu jurov what is ? [22:08]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo mainly in terms of st louis being known for murders and crimes, and that a proper boiling over of the tensions between police and citizens could bring about positive resolution, whoever 'wins' [22:08]
mircea_popescu lol @the prostitution=alimony thing. [22:09]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Eh, There's a balance. [22:11]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo a balance between what ? [22:12]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: I think some hmility was imposed when some of the black kids got too amped up on "kill whitey" and started going after Bosnians. Seems they learned better than to do that within a month or so. [22:12]
mircea_popescu "Instantly, I knew I was walking into a trap. I looked around, half hoping for a hug or some assurance that everything was going to be okay" [22:12]
mircea_popescu lol this derp [22:12]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: crime/not crime in stl [22:13]
asciilifeform i can't even config a fucking apache vhost on this thing. [22:13]
asciilifeform and apparently neither can anyone else [22:13]
mircea_popescu ahhh [22:13]
mircea_popescu so basically... cpanel is super-security. even if malware expert gets root... what good is it ? :D [22:13]
asciilifeform can't go far with exploded head. [22:14]
mircea_popescu "I tried to take the conversation out of feelings and into logic by claiming that" << roosh is a fucktard srsly. [22:14]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo bosnians being yugoslavia vets or... ? [22:14]
asciilifeform 'proceeding from informal to formal by formal means' (TM) [22:14]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo and where's ferguson at these days ? i haven't heard much out of there recently. [22:15]
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BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Largely refugees came over in the 1990's colonized south city. The generation of Bosnians being targeted were largely the kids... The older ones seemed very unhappy about that... [22:15]
pete_dushenski in terms of street violence, dead cops, local politics. [22:15]
BingoBoingo Ferguson's been mostly tamed by Sharptoon and other FBI folk [22:16]
pete_dushenski ah ok [22:16]
BingoBoingo Back to just the normal shootings, police retreated, longtime businesses closing up and leaving [22:17]
pete_dushenski hm rough. [22:17]
mircea_popescu they're moving online ? [22:17]
pete_dushenski cities like ferguson would be best served by a fleet of amazon delivery drones. [22:18]
pete_dushenski dropping packages ordered online and heading back to homebase in the country far, far away [22:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i wasted many hours and actually moved phuctor to that thing, and it runs. just can't be reached from anywhere outside of box per se, aha. [22:18]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, is it at least crunching the numbers ? [22:19]
asciilifeform would, if there were any [22:19]
mircea_popescu i thought we had a million key db at some point ? [22:19]
asciilifeform aha [22:19]
mircea_popescu what, your scp's broken ? [22:20]
asciilifeform i'm not dealing with syncing keys from the old install back into this one [22:20]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Mostly moving to retirement [22:20]
asciilifeform (which is what i'd have to do if they were to be used simultaneously) [22:20]
mircea_popescu so then what does this do ? [22:20]
asciilifeform sit there sadly (tm) [22:20]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: I think you underestimate the potential drone casualties [22:21]
asciilifeform because box lacks normal apache [22:21]
mircea_popescu aha. well ok. did you break it in the process ? [22:21]
asciilifeform break in what sense [22:21]
mircea_popescu in the sense that is it still usable as a cpanel box or will i have to have it reflushed. [22:21]
asciilifeform can be used [22:21]
asciilifeform login - same [22:21]
mircea_popescu aite [22:21]
* BingoBoingo starting to believe that Stan's gentoo build is so far from normal "linux" might as well be called Stannix nao [22:22]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it is perfectly normal [22:22]
mircea_popescu a further three day experiment in the "linux is worthless and broadly unusable" meme. i guess it needed more documentation. [22:22]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo not in the slightest. just that drones are cheaper than people. certainly with the us legal system such as it is. see mp's piece on 'how to go out in a blaze of glory' [22:22]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Normal in terms of distance from your box to median boxen [22:23]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: again, entirely normal [22:23]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: phuctor, for instance, presently runs on 'the world's worst hoster', aws [22:23]
asciilifeform and did not require any wizardry there [22:23]
BingoBoingo When did AWS overtake for that honor? [22:23]
asciilifeform when opened doors ? [22:24]
asciilifeform (charges by cpu cycle) [22:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform apparently not the worst. [22:24]
mircea_popescu the only worse alternative to the worlds 2nd most common hoster seems to be... the world's MOST common. [22:24]
mircea_popescu ya know ? [22:24]
* decimation (~bit_nugge@unaffiliated/decimation) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:25]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [22:25]
decimation aws does seem to have some degree of ddos protection [22:26]
williamdunne Heh? AWS worse than GoDaddy? [22:27]
mircea_popescu well, alf worse. "whatever i'm using currently" [22:27]
trinque re: the power of unix this was fun -> [22:28]
assbot ... ( ) [22:28]
trinque probably done like shit; was written on the can after all [22:28]
decimation asciilifeform: have you ever actually tried to grok ipsec? it's a nightmare [22:29]
asciilifeform decimation: no and can't see why i'd ever even want to [22:29]
decimation ipsec is worse than you think [22:29]
decimation yet somehow it's the defacto standard for 'vpn' [22:30]
asciilifeform 'somehow' [22:30]
BingoBoingo Godaddy shoves its own Cpanel in everything [22:30]
pete_dushenski alrighty, time for some exercise. later gents! [22:31]
* pete_dushenski has quit () [22:31]
mike_c mircea_popescu: you're not crazy. sorting the timestamps works in chrome, not in FF. I'll investigate. [22:48]
mircea_popescu weird shit huh. [22:48]
mike_c yes.. [22:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22200 @ 0.00028737 = 6.3796 BTC [-] {2} [22:48]
mircea_popescu i'm bracing myself for the one day when we discover unequal fives somewhere on the internet. [22:48]
mircea_popescu only thing that's missing out of today. [22:49]
trinque sounds like javascript math [22:50]
miaviator Michail1 midnightmagic mike_c mircea_popescu mius mixdio [22:50]
mircea_popescu yeah, thinking about it hey mike_c maybe cheaper than investigating is altering the date format to numeric ? [22:50]
BingoBoingo Nah, what's missing is me cataloguing all of the plants growning in the front flowerbeds, looking them up, and discovering the bulk of them are cardiotoxic. [22:51]
* decimation has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [22:51]
mike_c yes, it would be, but then don't I get into arguments with the europeans? [22:51]
mircea_popescu shit. [22:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8188 @ 0.00030438 = 2.4923 BTC [+] {2} [23:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49850 @ 0.0003081 = 15.3588 BTC [+] {3} [23:03]
mircea_popescu if anyone's (for purely academic reasons) interested in this shitshow : [23:17]
assbot ModSecurity / Mailing Lists ... ( ) [23:17]
mircea_popescu modsecurity ITSELF is buggy when interacting with mod_remoteip. the devs understand the problem about as well as you'd expect of the php folk. [23:17]
mircea_popescu meanwhile, [23:18]
assbot dev-httpd - Re: Some redundant code and comment typos in mod_remoteip - msg#00139 - Recent Discussion [23:18]
mircea_popescu ie, mod_remoteip was written by chickens. [23:18]
* decimation (~bit_nugge@unaffiliated/decimation) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:18]
* asciilifeform prescribes a dose of 'computer defender' ( ) [23:18]
assbot ... ( ) [23:18]
mike_c mircea_popescu: try now - [23:19]
assbot davout WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( ) [23:19]
mircea_popescu much better. [23:20]
mircea_popescu what was it ? [23:20]
mike_c k. i also fixed the big wot graph cutting off some names on the sides [23:20]
mike_c changing the date format helped. went from AP style "Dec. 12, 2012", "April 12, 2012" to more simple short format "Dec 12, 2012", "Apr 12, 2012" [23:21]
mike_c JS date parser was choking on former [23:21]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [23:24]
asciilifeform 'What's a manager to do with a heap of stuff that isn't managed and doesn't wish to be?' 'Burn it ?' (from mircea_popescu's site) << pure gold [23:25]
decimation [23:26]
assbot Hayek and Business Management | askblog ... ( ) [23:26]
decimation "Of course, large corporations do exist. That is because as clumsy as they are, they can still be less clumsy than the alternative, which is to break a corporation into a network of contractually related divisions. " [23:27]
BingoBoingo 'What's a manager to do with a heap of stuff that isn't managed and doesn't wish to be?' 'Burn it ?' (from mircea_popescu's site) << pure gold << This is how I've been getting exercise these past couple weeks. Shovel and glyphosate + troclopyr... Actual fire comes later [23:28]
mircea_popescu mike_c sounds like secret overflow eh. [23:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform story of my lyf. [23:37]
mircea_popescu decimation that is not why large corporations exist. large corporations exist because it is cheaper for the socialist state to interact with larger items than with smaller items. [23:38]
BingoBoingo "burndown" is the only solution to certain problems in horticulture [23:38]
decimation he does hypothesize that later [23:38]
mircea_popescu that's why 100 employers of 10 employees each need a pile of paperwork from city hall, whereas one employer of 1000 employees gets free money from city hall [23:38]
decimation "I do think that government often tilts the scale in favor of large organizations. The high fixed cost of regulatory compliance is one factor. Government has been a key customer in industries like aerospace, information technology, and finance, and the fixed costs of selling to government are very high, because of all of the hoops that you have to jump through." [23:38]
mircea_popescu hoops my foot. [23:38]
mircea_popescu blackwater "sold to the goverment" by jumpiong through the following hoops : "if you send anyone to investigate us, we'll just kill them" [23:39]
mircea_popescu haliburton didn't even bother, just "lost" a trillion. [23:39]
decimation yeah, good point, this [23:39]
mircea_popescu if you were going to be raped, [23:40]
decimation the corruption in selling physical goods to usg is nowhere near the size of the corruption of 'selling services' [23:40]
mircea_popescu would you prefer being raped by ten thousand slimy worms [23:40]
mircea_popescu or by a bull ? [23:40]
decimation 1024 chickens? [23:40]
mircea_popescu governments everywhere always prefer the bull in that equation. tho their ideal is a herd of goats. [23:40]
mircea_popescu apparently easier to hallucinate "a relationship" with the bull. [23:41]
decimation well, the government believes they can make the bull like them [23:41]
mircea_popescu eeexactly. [23:41]
BingoBoingo What socialism truly deserves is taking it from a duck of extraordinary size [23:41]
decimation and of course it is very much in bull's interest to pretend [23:41]
decimation as long as the slop keeps rolling [23:42]
decimation [23:45]
assbot Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:33; decimation: then I heard this podcast: << "Guest: It's funny--one of my friends, who has been a long-term, upper level bureaucrat in Washington said to me his favorite phenomenon to see is these people coming through these usually politically-appointed jobs and, he says: They think everybody loves them. And then they leave the job and they [23:45]
assbot Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:35; decimation: that once they are not in the job any more they realize they don't have nearly as many friends as they thought they did. The smarter ones do know this. And that's why so many[?] hang onto power. " [23:45]
Pierre_Rochard !rate davout 1 francais, être raisonnable [23:47]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [23:47]
Pierre_Rochard !v assbot:Pierre_Rochard.rate.davout.1:400210684ec922303e0cfa010509d4eb36cacd24b5ad98a221944aac7c1aa9c6 [23:47]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for davout with note: francais, être raisonnable [23:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform << there, random spamsite has nginx-for-cpanel prepackaged. [23:48]
assbot Nginx Admin Installation Instruction ... ( ) [23:48]
mircea_popescu "Tried to install and got this error message: “access key doesn’t exist create it in WHM” What to do? Thank you." [23:48]
mircea_popescu "At root whm go to Main >> Cluster/Remote Access >> Setup Remote Access Key Then click Generate New Key and retry to install" [23:48]
mircea_popescu "Thank you very much; this is working very fine now. Great script and glad to get it installed. Success!" [23:49]
asciilifeform for the love of god, montrezor! (tm) [23:53]
decimation heh linus rejects dbus in kernel with prejudice [23:57]
assbot Gmane Loom ... ( ) [23:57]
decimation "IOW, all the people who say that it's about avoiding context switches are probably just full of shit. It's not about context switches, it's about bad user-level code." [23:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00029196 = 3.3575 BTC [-] [23:58]
Category: Logs
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