Forum logs for 26 Feb 2013

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17677 @ 0.00077015 = 13.6139 BTC [-]	[00:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2812 @ 0.00077014 = 2.1656 BTC [-]	[00:00]
dub	so can someone explain what ziggap does	[00:02]
aethero	Get endlessly trolled	[00:02]
aethero	ziggap does direct bitcoin sales	[00:03]
dub	so its an exchange?	[00:03]
dub	or it cold calls you in the middle fo teh night/shows up at your door with a vacume cleaner	[00:04]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't buy does it	[00:04]
dub	presumably its buying some fiat currency	[00:04]
aethero	We're like fastcash4bitcoins except in reverse.	[00:05]
aethero	Are they an exchange?	[00:05]
dub	I don't know what that is	[00:05]
ThickAsThieves	thx for the article mp, good stuff	[00:05]
aethero	https://fastcash4bitcoins.com/about.aspx	[00:05]
aethero	FastCash4Bitcoins is a service of Tangible Cryptography LLC. We are not an exchange; we are a direct buyer of bitcoins. In keeping with the bitcoin philosophy of limited third party trust we don't hold client's balances (bitcoins or dollars), instead we only accept a sale when we can promptly pay it	[00:05]
aethero	We're the same. In reverse.	[00:05]
aethero	We're not an exchange. We are a direct seller of Bitcoins.	[00:06]
ThickAsThieves	like he said, you buy fiat	[00:07]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[00:07]
ThickAsThieves	sell btc/buy fiat, exchange fiat for btc, pay divs, right?	[00:07]
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SpNg	mircea_popescu: good article. I like your analysis.	[00:08]
Bugpowder_	wow... SP500 tanked	[00:10]
mircea_popescu	SpNg ;)	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	Bugpowder_ aww, quantitatively quantitative easing fizzled again ?	[00:12]
SpNg	mircea_popescu: i recently found your exchange and blog. It's been a good read. Just getting into BTC, but I like this S.DICE investment. I have been wanting to ask you, how does one purchase shares with your exchange?	[00:13]
pigeons	echo '\|gpg --clearsign\|gpg --encrypt --armor -r F1B69921	[00:14]
dub	one does not simply walk into mpex	[00:14]
ThickAsThieves	http://mpex.co/faq.html#3	[00:15]
Bugpowder_	step 1 ) purchase a 6 pack of your favorite beer.	[00:15]
SpNg	ThickAsThieves: I see. That FAQ is what I have been looking for.	[00:16]
ThickAsThieves	cool cool	[00:17]
ThickAsThieves	if that's too geeky for you, shares are also sold through brokers on other exchanges	[00:18]
ThickAsThieves	but you give up 5% of your sdice dividends	[00:18]
ThickAsThieves	the exchanges are listed when you log into this channel	[00:18]
SpNg	<-- Software dev. loves the geeky stuff.	[00:18]
ThickAsThieves	word	[00:18]
SpNg	so it's 30 BTC fee + 5% of the dividend payout?	[00:19]
Bowjob	no	[00:19]
SpNg	Bowjob: I just re read, I c	[00:20]
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mircea_popescu	SpNg well, you issue an order	[00:24]
SpNg	mircea_popescu: I was trying to figure out how to get an account. ThickAsThieves pointed me to the FAQ. Exactly what I was looking for. ;-)	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	a cool!	[00:25]
jurov	coinbr.com does NOT rob you of 5% of dividends ;)	[00:25]
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mircea_popescu	oh lovely, huffpoo has opinion pieces on cash now ?!	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	what's next, i'm going to read theosophy on somethingbawful ?	[00:29]
jurov	AUSTERITY COUNTDOWN: 4 DAYS TIL PAIN . Bitcoin users not affected.	[00:29]
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Bowjob	whats in 4 days?	[00:30]
thestringpuller	;;asks 31	[00:30]
gribble	There are currently 7358.0245 bitcoins offered at or under 31.0 USD, worth 225943.062008 USD in total.	[00:30]
Bugpowder	S.DICE div	[00:30]
Bugpowder	?	[00:30]
thestringpuller	;;bids	[00:30]
gribble	(bids [--under] ) -- Calculate the amount of bitcoin demanded at or over . If '--under' option is given, find coins or at or under .	[00:30]
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jurov	Bowjob, go to huff.to	[00:30]
thestringpuller	;;bids 30	[00:30]
gribble	There are currently 930.16598 bitcoins demanded at or over 30.0 USD, worth 27935.0288526 USD in total.	[00:30]
jurov	some fearmongering	[00:30]
thestringpuller	;;ticker	[00:30]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 30.13001, Best ask: 30.14999, Bid-ask spread: 0.01998, Last trade: 30.14999, 24 hour volume: 26135.40088171, 24 hour low: 29.50001, 24 hour high: 30.40000, 24 hour vwap: 30.05456	[00:30]
thestringpuller	;;calc 30.12	[00:31]
gribble	30.12	[00:31]
jurov	i guess in 4 days a peculiar platinum coin will be unveiled	[00:31]
thestringpuller	;;calc 30.12 * .012	[00:31]
gribble	0.36144	[00:31]
thestringpuller	;;bids 29	[00:32]
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gribble	There are currently 8834.2843 bitcoins demanded at or over 29.0 USD, worth 259243.946894 USD in total.	[00:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00077013 = 7.1622 BTC [-]	[00:32]
jurov	...a top administration official warned that the nation's borders would be less secure. oh my	[00:32]
jurov	S.DICE div? lmao somebody should tell obama to buy shares to save the US budget	[00:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00076119 = 12.179 BTC [-]	[00:35]
jurov	or put a trillion on "lessthan 1"	[00:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15478 @ 0.00076118 = 11.7815 BTC [-]	[00:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2464 @ 0.00075891 = 1.87 BTC [-]	[00:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11962 @ 0.00075883 = 9.0771 BTC [-]	[00:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17987 @ 0.00075864 = 13.6457 BTC [-]	[00:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36100 @ 0.00075743 = 27.3432 BTC [-]	[00:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14767 @ 0.00075619 = 11.1667 BTC [-]	[00:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00075518 = 5.3618 BTC [-]	[00:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00075418 = 5.958 BTC [-]	[00:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00075343 = 4.6713 BTC [-]	[00:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00075335 = 20.1144 BTC [-]	[00:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16853 @ 0.00075204 = 12.6741 BTC [-]	[00:36]
thestringpuller	there she pops	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	jurov is a trillion more than 0.01 btc yet ?	[00:36]
Namworld	mircea: it's always been. I'd exchange 0.01 BTC for a trillion anytime	[00:37]
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mircea_popescu	:p	[00:37]
Namworld	Buy myself a few thousand gold bars and some companies...	[00:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P750T] 530 @ 1.49949501 = 794.7324 BTC [-]	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	better off buying tungsten bars	[00:39]
jurov	should have sold moar at 77740.. but good :)	[00:39]
Namworld	Oh, I'm fine with buying tons of bars of every metal.	[00:39]
Namworld	Many large multinationals have a market cap uner 1 billion... I could buy myself a thousand multinationals at least	[00:39]
Bowjob	itd be nice if mr whale can bump dice to before pre erkik dump levels	[00:40]
jurov	seriously, when USG issues btc bonds, what interest rate would you ask?	[00:41]
jurov	i wouldn't go below 10% monthly	[00:41]
Namworld	I'd charge them royalties on the name BTC-BOND	[00:42]
dub	call me when its a palladium coin	[00:42]
thestringpuller	capital expenses	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	jurov why 10% ?!	[00:42]
thestringpuller	wow that put is deep in the money	[00:42]
Bugpowder_	shorting	[00:42]
Bugpowder_	its the fourth big short position added in the last 3 days	[00:43]
jurov	MPBOR+5% ... but should prolly ask more	[00:43]
Bowjob	you can lose from mpbor, right?	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	Bugpowder_ short put = long btc	[00:44]
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jurov	mpbor itself is always positive... only the end result of mpoe can be negative, that's different thing	[00:44]
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Bugpowder_	mircea_popescu: Thank you for today's lesson	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	lol	[00:45]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: the whale lives!	[00:46]
mircea_popescu	o?	[00:46]
Namworld	jurov: MPBOR can be negative...	[00:46]
Namworld	no?	[00:47]
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thestringpuller	no mircea eats the losses	[00:49]
jurov	look on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlhB0UHVxS67dGpBc2Rub3FtLTdHZ3ZPb09DY2pHWlE	[00:50]
jurov	the "net result" can be negative	[00:50]
jurov	but mpbor was always positive (it's not there explicitly)	[00:50]
jurov	but you can compute it as interest paid out/raised capital	[00:51]
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jurov	only when exercises + interest paid out > earnings from sales of options, then net result = mpbor	[00:53]
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jurov	derp	[00:53]
jurov	only when exercises + interest paid out < earnings from sales of options, then net result = mpbor	[00:53]
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Namworld	right	[00:58]
Namworld	still, MPBOR could be a big loser on a very bad month	[00:58]
Namworld	Although quite good history	[00:58]
thestringpuller	no	[00:58]
Bugpowder_	yes	[00:58]
thestringpuller	nooo! thats impossible	[00:59]
dub	maybe	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	has happened.	[00:59]
Namworld	MPBOR is funds lent for options? As such, losses by the options bot would be taken from MPBOR deposits nay?	[00:59]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu usually ends up putting up capital in those scenarios	[01:00]
Bugpowder_	thestringpuller: you don't know what you are talking about	[01:00]
Bugpowder_	MPBOR is high risk, limited reward	[01:01]
jurov	yes but in the end the proportional part is taken from all bonds	[01:01]
Bugpowder_	Not attractive IMHO	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	Bugpowder_ it's only risk if it meets your desired reward.	[01:01]
Bugpowder_	what IS attractive is owning 85% of S.MPOE and collecting all the cream off the top	[01:01]
thestringpuller	lol	[01:01]
thestringpuller	expensive endeavor :P	[01:01]
jurov	Bugpowder_ that was last feasible in April	[01:02]
Bugpowder_	start your own MPOE	[01:02]
Bugpowder_	or at least an MPOE bot	[01:02]
thestringpuller	smickles tried that	[01:02]
thestringpuller	it lost money	[01:03]
Bugpowder_	the collateral requirements will kill you though	[01:03]
Bugpowder_	I am shocked	[01:03]
Bugpowder_	he kept buying high and selling low	[01:03]
thestringpuller	SOE bot didnt do so well :/	[01:03]
Bugpowder_	or buying high and not selling actually	[01:03]
jurov	after MPBPT will get psychologically entrenched, we'll see ;)	[01:03]
jurov	it may cease being a passthrough	[01:04]
Namworld	didn't do too well eh...	[01:04]
jurov	but i prefer to run it as is now	[01:04]
Bugpowder_	I think you need minimum 10,000 BTC nut to run an options bot effectively	[01:04]
thestringpuller	maybe 5,000 btc...	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	you need infinite capital (tm)	[01:05]
thestringpuller	lol	[01:05]
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mircea_popescu	srsly.	[01:05]
thestringpuller	ideally	[01:05]
Namworld	make a bot which keeps outbidding MPOE bot by 1 satoshi, and undercutting ask by 1 satoshi.	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	lol	[01:06]
Namworld	guaranteed win on others' algorythm without any of the work!	[01:06]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 97 @ 0.00075 = 0.0728 BTC [+]	[01:06]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 5963 @ 0.00075 = 4.4723 BTC [+]	[01:06]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1000 @ 0.00075 = 0.75 BTC [+]	[01:06]
jurov	Namworld, that bot still needs equal capital to most mpoe bondholders	[01:07]
Namworld	nah, not necessarily. Just make smaller amount both sides.	[01:08]
jurov	i had more devious idea... there are periods when mpoe bot is thinking and no offers are listed	[01:08]
jurov	was thinking to put some rotten apples there inbetween	[01:09]
jurov	but dunno how successfult would that be	[01:09]
Namworld	hmkay... probably not a lot considering the short timeframe	[01:09]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 44 @ 0.00599 = 0.2636 BTC [-]	[01:10]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 967 @ 0.006 = 5.802 BTC [+]	[01:10]
jurov	actually i remembered i did the frontrunning on options few months ago but stopped	[01:11]
jurov	i had to tie the bitcoins on multiple calls/puts and wait for weeks for some order to come	[01:11]
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jurov	better to focus on frontrunning one or two most traded things	[01:13]
jurov	sigh...now if my bots weren't caught like deer in headlights on last spike	[01:13]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 5 @ 0.3499 = 1.7495 BTC [-]	[01:15]
jurov	but let them stay KISS... can't optimize for everything anyway	[01:15]
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Bugpowder_	Namworld: Acutally that bot needs MORE capital since it does not appear that the MPOE bot counts created but non-sold options against the total capital	[01:19]
Bugpowder_	which dilutes the returns	[01:19]
jurov	the collateral for unsold options returns to you	[01:20]
Bugpowder_	yeah	[01:20]
Bugpowder_	but its not available for other offers	[01:20]
jurov	?	[01:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2547 @ 0.00075204 = 1.9154 BTC [-]	[01:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4111 @ 0.00075113 = 3.0879 BTC [-]	[01:20]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 15 @ 0.00609 = 0.0914 BTC [+]	[01:20]
jurov	if you do SPLIT/MKFUT, you DO get collateral - exercises back	[01:20]
jurov	in the end of month	[01:20]
Bugpowder_	;;calc 1000752	[01:20]
gribble	150000	[01:20]
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Bugpowder_	you need 150,000 BTC to offer up what the MPOE bot offers.	[01:21]
Bugpowder_	BEFORE anything gets sold	[01:21]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 60 @ 0.0061 = 0.366 BTC [+]	[01:21]
jurov	it's 75 of them? not less? but you do have a point.	[01:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 3905 @ 0.00075 = 2.9288 BTC [+]	[01:26]
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jurov	;;calc 100185337*0.00075/2	[01:30]
gribble	37569.501375	[01:30]
jurov	100million s.mpoe could have sold for 30-40k ... yea, nowhere near > 100k requried for collateral	[01:32]
Bugpowder_	It's a huge competitive advantage.	[01:33]
Bugpowder_	Other people basically are limited to placing bids and hoping someone shorts into them so they can then resell higher	[01:34]
jurov	there will be other options exchange soon, i'm interesting how they will solve this.	[01:36]
jurov	*interested	[01:36]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 39 @ 0.58 = 22.62 BTC [-]	[01:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 12 @ 0.58 = 6.96 BTC [-]	[01:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1843 @ 0.0062 = 11.4266 BTC [-]	[01:43]
ThickAsThieves	what crawled up this guy's ass? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145510.msg1559409#msg1559409	[01:43]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 940 @ 0.0061 = 5.734 BTC [+]	[01:44]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1000 @ 0.0061 = 6.1 BTC [+]	[01:44]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00619 BTC [+]	[01:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1000 @ 0.0062 = 6.2 BTC [+]	[01:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 994 @ 0.00623 = 6.1926 BTC [+]	[01:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 7000 @ 0.0063 = 44.1 BTC [+]	[01:45]
Namworld	Thick: He's saying "Blocking SD directly is the only known viable method of Bitcoin surviving this attack." and I think he's almost alone in that...	[01:46]
pigeons	i don't think he is	[01:47]
Namworld	Close to alone...	[01:47]
pigeons	i dont agree with him, i think fees need to go a lot higher	[01:47]
Namworld	Just doesn't fit Bitcoin's to start saying what is or what is not allowed.	[01:48]
Namworld	Only way to have a block against SD is if all miners simply exclude those transactions.	[01:48]
iz	pigeons: transactions relay to all nodes, regardless of the transaction fee	[01:48]
ThickAsThieves	fees will have to go higher if traffic slows	[01:48]
ThickAsThieves	right?	[01:48]
iz	the fees won't fix anything	[01:48]
iz	at least not with regard to SD	[01:49]
ThickAsThieves	if there's mass bitcoin adoption, people won't want to wait	[01:49]
ThickAsThieves	so paying fee is the only way to expedite	[01:49]
pigeons	iz: yes but if fees are higher people will be rewarded for their work, and spammers will be disincentivized	[01:49]
ThickAsThieves	and miners prioritize by value right?	[01:49]
iz	everyone relays transactions, even if they don't pickup the transaction and regardless of the fees	[01:49]
iz	pigeons: SD will still spam the network, regardless of the fees	[01:50]
ThickAsThieves	but the network seems to be doing fine, no?	[01:50]
iz	no	[01:50]
iz	have you seen how much the blockchain is growing?	[01:50]
ThickAsThieves	i have	[01:50]
ThickAsThieves	but all my transactions go thru quickly	[01:50]
ThickAsThieves	or, quick enough	[01:50]
jurov	oh not this again....	[01:51]
iz	basically we are recording all SD transaction history in the blockchain forever	[01:51]
iz	that everyone downloads	[01:51]
ThickAsThieves	theyd dont have to	[01:51]
ThickAsThieves	they can use web-based wallets	[01:51]
Namworld	iz: so what?	[01:51]
jurov	the blockchain is fine. I'll happily accept 1TB per month if that enables btc to be widely used	[01:51]
iz	transaction fees won't make a difference until we start hitting the max blocksize	[01:52]
Bowjob	if you didnt pay the tx fee, how long will it take?	[01:52]
ThickAsThieves	i mean really, the wait time to let qt sync was too long for the average person a while ago	[01:52]
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iz	i'm just saying it's not a non-problem, not that it's an insurmountable one	[01:53]
ThickAsThieves	word	[01:53]
ThickAsThieves	i wasnt trying to kick up the debate	[01:53]
ThickAsThieves	just amused that the guy thinks he can lean so far in one direction and not fall over	[01:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.BBET] 1 @ 0.00196487 BTC [-]	[01:54]
Ukto	evening Namworld	[01:57]
Ukto	somehow I didnt see you talking earlier. hehe	[01:57]
Namworld	eh	[02:01]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 910 @ 0.0022 = 2.002 BTC [+]	[02:09]
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dub	jurov: how many nodes will be running under a +1tb/month scenario?	[02:12]
jurov	any business with some employees can afford that	[02:13]
dub	jurov: how much confidence will people have in bitcoin if there are only 7 nodes	[02:13]
jurov	let's say it will happen in 2 years	[02:13]
jurov	there will be 10TB hard drives	[02:14]
jurov	for the same prices as 2Tb today	[02:14]
dub	the reality is SD exploits a weakness in bitcoin	[02:15]
jurov	don't tell me only 7 nodes can afford buying one harddrive per year	[02:15]
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iz	how many would care enough to?	[02:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 3 @ 0.0022 = 0.0066 BTC [+]	[02:15]
iz	maybe in 2 years there is something else that doesn't have the same flaws being actively exploited to the detriment of everyone else..	[02:16]
jurov	anyone who wants to accept transactions	[02:16]
dub	it spreads teh cost of its spam attack to idiots already willing to throw money away	[02:16]
dub	what SD does can be achieved in a scalable way easily	[02:16]
iz	just because the problem can be solved by stupidly throwing money at it, doesn't mean it's not a problem that could have a more elegant solution	[02:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.BBET] 498 @ 0.00196487 = 0.9785 BTC [-]	[02:16]
maximian	SD just amplifies that weakness. and if it wasn't SD it'd be someone else. The problem has to be solved, and it can't be solved by banning. It's a fundamental architectural problem.	[02:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.BBET] 457 @ 0.00196488 = 0.898 BTC [+]	[02:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.BBET] 45 @ 0.001965 = 0.0884 BTC [+]	[02:16]
dub	maximian: the weakness was always there, the cost for one person to attack was prohibitive, SD works aroudn that	[02:17]
jurov	so maybe you should stop alienating evoorhees and make that easier for him to do that way?	[02:17]
maximian	because of zero confs?	[02:17]
dub	jurov: wat	[02:18]
jurov	and my 2cents... if bitcoin will be centralized, it will not be because of blocksize, but because of asics	[02:18]
dub	my 2c.. I could run a bitcoin node on 1990's hardware before SD	[02:19]
jurov	as asicminer handily proved	[02:19]
dub	how long before we can't run one on 2012 hardware?	[02:19]
iz	yeah, everyone is a node, even if they aren't mining	[02:19]
iz	this is a problem with bitcoin p2p, not really just with bitcoin mining	[02:20]
jurov	miners' pipe dreams... bitcoins should be forever limited to 7tx/second. because obviously having $50 tx fees will give power to teh people	[02:21]
dub	and btw the '90s hardware problem is processing not disk	[02:21]
jurov	99% people will not ever see a bitcoin in whole life, but they will be able to run full node, that's the ideal	[02:22]
dub	i have no idea what you just said	[02:22]
jurov	i'll try again. how many businesses own a car?	[02:23]
jurov	why wouldn't they pay much less for a full node that can deal with 1TB/month to enable them access to bitcoin system?	[02:24]
iz	lol	[02:24]
iz	you failed on that try	[02:24]
jurov	why not?	[02:24]
dub	typically I would say that a high end server is more expensive for a business than a car	[02:25]
OneMiner	7tx/sec = 604,800/day. Not nearly enough.	[02:25]
iz	jurov: because credit card payment processing is cheaper than that.	[02:25]
jurov	1. that does not need hig end server	[02:26]
jurov	2. credit cards are expensive for merchants	[02:26]
iz	why would a business pay more for bitcoin processing, when they could just do "expensive" credit card processing that is accepted by way more clients?	[02:26]
jurov	so they shouldn't use bitcoin, you say?	[02:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7168 @ 0.00075677 = 5.4245 BTC [+]	[02:27]
jurov	with 604,800 txs/day they will not, indeed	[02:27]
iz	you're basically trying to say that credit card processing is too expensive out of one side of your mouth, while saying any business that wants to use bitcoin should be have plenty of money to blow	[02:27]
jurov	only banks and govts will use bitcoin in the end	[02:27]
iz	anyway.. i'm gonna head home now.. peace all	[02:28]
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dub	jurov: I don;t hink anyone is arguing against that, if adoption is successful	[02:28]
dub	don't think*	[02:28]
jurov	if you insist accepting 1TB/mon means blowing tons of money....	[02:28]
jurov	be it so	[02:28]
jurov	i can do it chepaer	[02:29]
jurov	peace	[02:29]
OneMiner	More transactions is better than less. In the future we won't have 2012 hardware, we'll have future hardware.	[02:29]
dub	do you know how much 1TB costs businesses?	[02:29]
dub	its a LOT more than it costs you	[02:30]
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Bowjob	the tx is still unconfirmed wtf	[02:30]
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jurov	if they have to back the terabyte up, then yeah	[02:30]
dub	talk to a SAN guy	[02:31]
Bowjob	http://blockchain.info/tx-index/56416802/e70e54774c58101e7a6de4bcc5a04a9f3091cee4022965aebc264a705cb3c732	[02:31]
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dub	proper storage is not cheap	[02:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 10 @ 0.0841 = 0.841 BTC [-]	[02:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 20 @ 0.0841 = 1.682 BTC [-]	[02:31]
jurov	blockchain doesn't need to be stored properly. you just buy commoditized server with it preinstalled and backup only the wallet. it breaks? buy another one	[02:32]
jurov	or copy it from guy next door	[02:32]
dub	businesses don't do that	[02:32]
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jurov	okay, you say so	[02:33]
jurov	i was admin too, saw how things are done	[02:33]
jurov	just in other part of the world	[02:33]
OneMiner	Ya, the blockchain isn't going to be lost for long if it is lost. I don't think they'd need anything fancy for it.	[02:34]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [LTC-MINING] 4 @ 0.38 = 1.52 BTC [-]	[02:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [LTC-MINING] 26 @ 0.393 = 10.218 BTC [+]	[02:36]
dub	the issue is that you need to get critical mass before all the businesses are going to look after the network for you	[02:36]
dub	if you make it prohibitive for Joe Asshat to do it for you until then, then you never get there	[02:36]
jurov	how you want to get critical mass when it can't handle even one casino???	[02:37]
dub	you get that casino to keep its own database	[02:37]
jurov	errr...it can handle it finely, just some peeps fear it irrationally	[02:37]
dub	instead of using yours that isn't designed for that	[02:37]
iz	casinos usually use chips, and don't have their clients bet using credit card payments	[02:37]
OneMiner	It's how that casino is doing it's business. You don't go up and change money after every bet when you are in a casino, do you?	[02:38]
dub	OneMiner: good analogy	[02:38]
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*	OneMiner wins!	[02:38]
jurov	now imagine million supermarkers/car dealers/etc. in the place of that casino]	[02:38]
dub	imagine a supermarket where you can only pay for one item at a time	[02:39]
jurov	they do need to charge money every time	[02:39]
iz	one item at a time though?	[02:39]
mircea_popescu	i can't believe this debate still exists.	[02:39]
dub	I don't think its going away	[02:40]
mircea_popescu	the jesuscrazy people were defeated already. forget about it.	[02:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 50 @ 0.1 = 5 BTC [+]	[02:40]
OneMiner	jurov With SD a single person can place many bets with a small amount of coins. Each bet = two transactions. If it was a supermarket, they'd have to be making a seperate transaction for each product, overcharging you by a little and sending you a satoshi back. THEN it would be similar.	[02:40]
dub	either SD changes or bitcoin does	[02:40]
mircea_popescu	it's like arguing the peace of westfalia.	[02:40]
jurov	you will kill bitcoin together with sd, then. at least prevent the mass adoption you are dreaming about.	[02:41]
dub	equally you will kill it if nobody can run a node	[02:41]
OneMiner	Not at all! I'd argue that the network is handling it very well.	[02:41]
mircea_popescu	look! it's really simple! bitcoin was designed to do 1mb blocks. if it can't do 1mb blocks it sucks, dies, we move to solidcoin.	[02:41]
iz	someone just needs to make a better version of SD that works in harmony with bitcoin	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	if it can do 1mb blocks and they get filled, tx fees increase	[02:42]
jurov	it was not designed to do 1mb blocks. it was just some limit to try with	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	right.	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	if it can't do EVEN THAT then forget it.	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	iz no.	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin needs to be able to stfu and suck this cock.	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	suck it well, ask for seconds.	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	then maybe it gets seconds.	[02:43]
jurov	iz, you're going to cripple the whole system just because of political reason, don't you see that?	[02:43]
dub	its not political its technical	[02:43]
dub	SD does not scale	[02:43]
iz	jurov: how would my proposal of creating a better version of SD going to cripple the whole system?	[02:43]
mircea_popescu	sigh.	[02:43]
iz	what do you even think would "cripple the whole system"?	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	iz you do not get to tell people how to use it.	[02:44]
ThickAsThieves	because it doesnt stop someone else from making the same problem in a new way	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	why is this so difficult to grasp ?	[02:44]
dub	iz: making rules, you know like the evil state	[02:44]
iz	i'm not telling people how to use it, i just suggested making a better alternative that people could choose to use	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	so make it.	[02:44]
iz	the problem is that there isn't an alternative	[02:44]
dub	it breaks teh very libertarianality of bitcoin!!!!	[02:44]
jurov	iz, preventing bitcoin to actually accept enough transactions to be really used	[02:44]
OneMiner	SD is doing it wrong. But it's up to miners to increase the TX fee and price them out of business. But it's democratic. Each miner will have to choose to allow 0.0005BTC fees or not.	[02:44]
OneMiner	I've set my fee one unit higher personally.	[02:45]
mircea_popescu	OneMiner except it's already been argued to death.	[02:45]
mircea_popescu	as it is, if miners tried it sd would just make its own miner drive the other miners out of business.	[02:45]
jurov	if it was anything other "more useful" that SD would you accept raising the limit?	[02:45]
OneMiner	That'll continue, it's up to them.	[02:45]
jurov	if yes, then it is political indeed	[02:45]
ThickAsThieves	make an alt coin for every bulky service	[02:45]
iz	mircea_popescu: i'm still afraid of the legal implications of running a gambling business	[02:46]
jcpham	if cgminer had a "no sd" flag, i'd set it	[02:46]
ThickAsThieves	if cryptocurrency is widely adopted, it's probly what will happen anyway	[02:46]
iz	that's why i'm not doing it	[02:46]
jcpham	otherwise my pools include sd blocks	[02:46]
ThickAsThieves	alt coin for every gov	[02:46]
jcpham	faik	[02:46]
iz	but SD is braindead simple to make a clone of	[02:46]
mircea_popescu	sigh.	[02:46]
iz	it's just rolling dice	[02:46]
OneMiner	jcpham do you pool mine?	[02:47]
mircea_popescu	i guess every coder has to be humiliated individually to get it.	[02:47]
jcpham	yes	[02:47]
OneMiner	jcpham Then the best you can do is mine in a pool that blocks those transactions.	[02:47]
jcpham	i mine at hashpower.com	[02:47]
jcpham	you can lease me	[02:47]
OneMiner	And it's not a scalpel, it's a grenade. You'd block all TXs with SDs fee or lower.	[02:48]
jcpham	see what i did there	[02:48]
OneMiner	jcpham I was too. Now I'm on p2pool.	[02:48]
OneMiner	I can make my own choices now. I'm independent. :)	[02:48]
jcpham	i think i just mined a bajillion freicon last week	[02:49]
jcpham	*freicoin	[02:49]
Bowjob	i got like 1500 friecoin.. whats the exchange rate now	[02:49]
OneMiner	haha, I've been trying to get merged mining going with p2pool. I think I messed it up somehow. :(	[02:49]
jcpham	no clue	[02:49]
jcpham	i solo mined.....	[02:49]
jcpham	36 blocks/sec	[02:50]
jcpham	i swear	[02:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00075677 = 10.065 BTC [+]	[02:50]
Guest36719	iz : no miner has the initiative not to accept 1 satoshi fee tx	[02:50]
*	Guest36719 is now known as kakobreklaa	[02:50]
kakobreklaa	except for the stupid ones	[02:50]
jcpham	i mine for profit...whoever pays the most	[02:51]
dub	you just stick your mining cock in any hole that comes along	[02:52]
Bowjob	if you dont pay the tx fee.. how long will it take to confirm?	[02:52]
dub	you don't decide what tx get through	[02:52]
kakobreklaa	moving old coins is free	[02:52]
Bowjob	e70e54774c58101e7a6de4bcc5a04a9f3091cee4022965aebc264a705cb3c732	[02:52]
OneMiner	Bowjob If my miner was the only one in the world, it wouldn't go through.	[02:53]
Bowjob	the guy didnt put a tx. -_- still waiting for it to confirm	[02:53]
OneMiner	How cheap.... The fee is almost nothing.	[02:53]
Bowjob	I clicked on "Relayed by IP"..	[02:54]
Bowjob	a bunch of ips appeared.. is taht a good thing orr..	[02:54]
kakobreklaa	its ok	[02:54]
OneMiner	Means that those nodes broadcasted the TX.	[02:54]
kakobreklaa	are you making your first btc tx?	[02:54]
OneMiner	The network has seen it.	[02:55]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 4035 @ 0.00075 = 3.0263 BTC [+]	[03:15]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.65 = 1.95 BTC [+]	[03:21]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 14 @ 0.635 = 8.89 BTC [-]	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[03:25]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 30.25402, Best ask: 30.35001, Bid-ask spread: 0.09599, Last trade: 30.38000, 24 hour volume: 26226.94641198, 24 hour low: 29.60000, 24 hour high: 30.40000, 24 hour vwap: 30.10472	[03:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 35 @ 1 = 35 BTC [+]	[03:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P330T] 750 @ 0.34699613 = 260.2471 BTC [-]	[03:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P310T] 1000 @ 0.29393728 = 293.9373 BTC	[03:37]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00075113 = 1.8778 BTC [-]	[04:07]
*	jborkl has quit ()	[04:22]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 25 @ 0.3499 = 8.7475 BTC [-]	[04:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 25 @ 0.33311 = 8.3278 BTC [-]	[04:31]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.34 = 1.02 BTC [+]	[04:32]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 6 @ 0.3331 = 1.9986 BTC [-]	[04:32]
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mircea_popescu	whoa less than 2!	[04:39]
kakobreklaa	the what?	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	Guest00001	[04:41]
swhitt	$36k payout	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	hit it!	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	there's kinda insufficient drama, if this keeps up bitcoin will tank	[04:42]
swhitt	manufacture some	[04:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 15.9 = 31.8 BTC [+]	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	nah it'd be too easy	[04:44]
mircea_popescu	http://www.par-anoia.net/releases2013.html	[04:46]
swhitt	has there ever been a >2 part of the chain orphaned?	[04:47]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 16 BTC [+]	[04:49]
mircea_popescu	im pretty sure	[04:50]
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mircea_popescu	50+ was the record iirc	[04:50]
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ThickAsThieves	https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-2.html#post16043	[05:20]
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ThickAsThieves	i suppose that makes the bitbet pretty much resolved...	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	The simple fact of the matter is there hasn't been any solid updates to offer.	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	myeah	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	a well.	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	"As I've written in previous posts, we are dealing with such an accelerated time scale that all of these facilities simply aren't used to dealing with."	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	le lol.	[05:24]
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ThickAsThieves	that's american industry for you i guess	[05:25]
ThickAsThieves	shoulda made em in china	[05:25]
mircea_popescu	We expect at least some of the chips to be on their way to Chicago by Tuesday, where they will be mounted and sent out to our engineers and KC for testing and final MCU programming.	[05:26]
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mircea_popescu	yup, he's not making march 1st.	[05:26]
ThickAsThieves	i'm no engineer, but it sounds so ghetto to be wasting 1000 chips to do a macguyver test	[05:27]
mircea_popescu	Right now, I'm planning on a week from Friday to be the day	[05:27]
mircea_popescu	way ghetto.	[05:27]
mircea_popescu	this is never delivering.	[05:27]
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pigeons	never we think they'll next tuesday, always we think they'll be on the way to another step by next tuesday	[05:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 1 @ 0.0763 BTC [-]	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	well, as it turns out that 1500 btc on bitbet will be the most btc anyone makes out of bfl	[05:28]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[05:28]
Bowjob	hahah	[05:28]
Bowjob	mp have you actually bet on it?	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[05:28]
ThickAsThieves	although, what if he's baiting the bet	[05:28]
Bowjob	you're the 200 BTC no?	[05:28]
ThickAsThieves	unlikely	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves it's closed already, so what can it do ?	[05:29]
ThickAsThieves	but a big mess if he did	[05:29]
ThickAsThieves	i meant if it resolved	[05:29]
Bowjob	theres this 500 BTC bet on yes	[05:29]
Bowjob	that hurts like a bitch	[05:29]
ThickAsThieves	before the 1st	[05:29]
Bowjob	josh could have come clean and tell us he couldnt ship by 1st	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	16-02-13 01:27 No	[05:30]
Bowjob	but instead he said "its close"	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	i like that string of no	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	like 20+ bets lol	[05:30]
ThickAsThieves	a 50btc bet at 710 weight	[05:31]
ThickAsThieves	does that even make any profit?	[05:31]
mircea_popescu	you always make a profit.	[05:32]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.35 BTC [+]	[05:32]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 710 * 50 / 60000000 * 800	[05:33]
gribble	0.473333333333	[05:33]
Bowjob	theres only like 3 big YES votes on the side	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	aaactually... i think you're right, he owes .5 to the house and makes .473	[05:33]
Bowjob	500, 100, and 115	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	net loss	[05:33]
ThickAsThieves	sad	[05:33]
Bowjob	was the 50 btc you?	[05:34]
ThickAsThieves	nah	[05:34]
ThickAsThieves	i didnt bet in that one	[05:34]
Bowjob	so they lose money on it.. even if they won?	[05:34]
mircea_popescu	yeah like 0.03 btc	[05:35]
ThickAsThieves	the huge bets just felt like something fishy was going on	[05:35]
ThickAsThieves	so i stayed out of it	[05:36]
Bowjob	https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-2.html#post16043	[05:36]
mircea_popescu	only fair, bets on the 21st that bfl won't deliver by 1st	[05:36]
Bowjob	delicious update delay again	[05:36]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob at least they beat all other vendors.	[05:36]
Bowjob	huh	[05:36]
Bowjob	how	[05:36]
mircea_popescu	also "everyone knows" bfl is worth more than mpex	[05:36]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob : /sarcasm	[05:36]
Bowjob	lol	[05:36]
*	[\] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[05:36]
mircea_popescu	that dude was such a lolcow i'll be sad to see him go	[05:37]
Bowjob	shits about to hit the fan.. bfl customers who used to defend josh are getting pissed	[05:37]
mircea_popescu	then again this is bitcoin, he'll prolly be making status updates in like... may.	[05:37]
Bowjob	if they werent already	[05:37]
ThickAsThieves	mp wanted drama	[05:37]
Bowjob	id have to ask josh to fuck up on this one, till my avalon arrives	[05:37]
mircea_popescu	ya, ty bitcoin goddess, satisfactory dramadelivery.	[05:38]
ThickAsThieves	does bfl allow refunds?	[05:38]
Bowjob	looks like i wont have to lol	[05:38]
Bowjob	yeah, they do	[05:38]
ThickAsThieves	ouch	[05:38]
Bowjob	but people who ordered way back then	[05:38]
Bowjob	would not get their btc back	[05:38]
mircea_popescu	they only allow refunds after jan 1st.	[05:38]
Bowjob	oh even worse lol	[05:38]
Bowjob	its like a stop loss order..	[05:38]
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ThickAsThieves	so if you ordered in 2013 you can get your money back	[05:38]
mircea_popescu	well ya, you sent 500 btc in october, you get 200 btc back today.	[05:38]
ThickAsThieves	ick	[05:38]
Bowjob	^ 300 btc for bfl free	[05:39]
Bowjob	lol	[05:39]
mircea_popescu	nice biz huh.	[05:39]
kakobreklaa	those low-weight no-ers on BFL bet will be pissed.	[05:39]
mircea_popescu	kakobreklaa they thought they were smart :D	[05:39]
Bowjob	its better to take a refund and take the loss.. before btc rallies up again	[05:39]
Bowjob	rather than go all or nothing	[05:39]
Bowjob	but they prolly wont do it.	[05:40]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob nobody sensible has any money left with them anyway	[05:40]
ThickAsThieves	this is such a huge idiot trap	[05:40]
mircea_popescu	a few hardocre believers aka idiots, who got burned in any scam available.	[05:40]
mircea_popescu	starting with p[irate.	[05:40]
mircea_popescu	some people just aren't made to handle money is all.	[05:40]
Bowjob	i dodged all bullets so far lol	[05:40]
ThickAsThieves	like smarter people will get refunds	[05:40]
ThickAsThieves	and then BFL will sell to people	[05:40]
ThickAsThieves	and theyll all be late to the party	[05:40]
ThickAsThieves	making .0003 btc/day	[05:40]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves actually asic is only mining what, 4-5 th ?	[05:41]
ThickAsThieves	true	[05:41]
mircea_popescu	and avalon is still in limboland	[05:41]
Namworld	.0003 BTC might be a bit exaggerated... but yeah	[05:41]
ThickAsThieves	asicminer is pretty behind it seems	[05:41]
ThickAsThieves	they said 12TH by the 1st i thought	[05:41]
mircea_popescu	everyone's behind everyone else, this is like the asic olympics	[05:41]
kakobreklaa	lol	[05:41]
mircea_popescu	i tell you, if asics were girls i'd be damned worried	[05:42]
mircea_popescu	everyone's late.	[05:42]
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mod6	haha	[05:42]
mircea_popescu	"dude, i took my girlfriends to this party	[05:42]
mircea_popescu	and now three weeks later everyone's late	[05:42]
mircea_popescu	i dunno what we did there"	[05:42]
mod6	grin	[05:43]
ThickAsThieves	i wonder how many people are submitting return requests tonight	[05:43]
kakobreklaa	assbot would say, they are more fucked than whores at closin time	[05:44]
mircea_popescu	lol	[05:44]
Bowjob	josh says 1 week..(1 month) for this to be done	[05:45]
dub	do we know if people who won the BFL order number lottery have been contacted?	[05:45]
dub	ie, those that will get a 1st round unit	[05:46]
ThickAsThieves	doubtful, i think the first sign things are shipping is when they ask for people to send their trade-ins	[05:46]
ThickAsThieves	which is absent from this update	[05:47]
dub	cool, I guess there is still a chance of sprinkles on this shit sandwich	[05:49]
Bowjob	I managed to sell 50k XRP for 1 BTC	[05:50]
dub	wat is xrp	[05:50]
Bowjob	I don't know if I did something smart or stupid	[05:50]
Bowjob	ripple credits	[05:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8355 @ 0.00075113 = 6.2757 BTC [-]	[05:50]
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Namworld	There's 100 billion XRP created right off the bat	[05:53]
dub	at this point suppose knowing what ripple is might help	[05:53]
Namworld	Making XRP worth 2,000,000 BTC at that price	[05:53]
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Namworld	So you sold them for a LOT	[05:53]
Namworld	XRP is super easily available	[05:53]
ThickAsThieves	is xrp unlimited?	[05:54]
ThickAsThieves	or just that 100bil only?	[05:54]
Bowjob	100 bill, as money get sent around theres a small fee	[05:55]
Bowjob	less than a cent	[05:55]
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Namworld	I love how my ripple address ends by Sir N	[05:57]
ThickAsThieves	another lol for you https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=146826.msg1558001#msg1558001	[06:03]
ThickAsThieves	"Ill pay you 1BTC to buy the goldbar so I dont lose it"	[06:03]
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Namworld	Hmm, I'll buy 10 million XRP for a BTC. Anyone? =P	[06:05]
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Bowjob	nam ill buy 50k xrp for .2 btc	[06:06]
Bowjob	deal? :p	[06:06]
Namworld	nay =/	[06:08]
Namworld	looks like it's overpriced right now	[06:08]
Namworld	I'll sell and wait to buy back	[06:08]
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Namworld	What's your ripple name?	[06:08]
Bowjob	rwAUfq4CjYut43iY8vut3KwujqFSGR1j5o	[06:10]
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Bowjob	ninjafruit	[06:10]
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Bowjob	im still trying to figure out how this thing works	[06:10]
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Bowjob	how do I view the ordebook	[06:11]
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Namworld	yeah, I don't understand that either	[06:13]
Bowjob	i'll just sit it out. i have 50k left	[06:13]
Bowjob	lets see if this goes somewhere	[06:13]
Bowjob	I want to see 1 XRP = 1 dollar	[06:14]
Namworld	good luck... would need market cap to reach 100 billion	[06:15]
grubles	selling 50k ripples	[06:16]
ThickAsThieves	seems to be a firm ceiling at 30.40 at mtgox	[06:17]
Namworld	Ok, I don't know how it works at all...	[06:17]
Namworld	How do we get other currencies?	[06:17]
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Bowjob	well the rocket is simply refueling	[06:22]
Bowjob	just wait	[06:22]
Namworld	I think I get it...	[06:22]
ThickAsThieves	arent ripples just IOUs mixed with otc ratings?	[06:22]
ThickAsThieves	or something	[06:22]
Namworld	People must assign trust to "gateways" which I think are like exchangers	[06:22]
Namworld	and these gateways assign currencies like USD/BTC/AUD/GBP/etc to users... and they can send it around if they trust the gateway...	[06:23]
ThickAsThieves	and people will treat it like Facebook Likes	[06:23]
ThickAsThieves	trust me and i'll trust you back	[06:23]
Namworld	So one has to deposit funds to a gateway to deposit it and withdraw from a gateway.	[06:24]
Namworld	I don't think it works like that Thick...	[06:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 16.9 BTC [+]	[06:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5132 @ 0.00075677 = 3.8837 BTC [+]	[06:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4468 @ 0.00076936 = 3.4375 BTC [+]	[06:25]
Bowjob	Holee schitt	[06:25]
Bowjob	Havelockkkkkkkk	[06:25]
Bowjob	I remember when it was 12 BTCs	[06:26]
ThickAsThieves	i'm not sure how it works either, i just saw some people talking about that as one of the weaknesses	[06:26]
Bowjob	and they released at 4.6 BTC per share	[06:26]
Bowjob	jezzus	[06:26]
Namworld	aye	[06:30]
Namworld	Well BitPride/Ziggap going fast it seems =/	[06:31]
dub	is ripple solidcoin 3?	[06:31]
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Namworld	ripple isn't supposed to be a currency you trade for money	[06:32]
Namworld	they're supposed to be preminted token used to create orders in the system upon which they're destroyed.	[06:32]
Namworld	People are supposed to trade in a peer to peer fashion other currencies, like BTC/USD or stuff...	[06:32]
Namworld	or something like that I think	[06:33]
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ThickAsThieves	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/197h9g/namecheap_considering_bitcoin/	[06:34]
ThickAsThieves	top comment says they are gonna do it	[06:34]
Namworld	Good for them	[06:34]
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BitHub	i'm down for the AUD end	[06:36]
BitHub	i was thinking about that other day Nam, i was even offering people access to the australian market in exchange for access to their countries market	[06:38]
BitHub	need to build a very trusted network	[06:38]
BitHub	while also taken care of the accountanting, tax side	[06:38]
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BitHub	i'll also be working on peso next year, but doing AUD market for now.	[06:39]
Ukto	which peso?	[06:39]
Ukto	there are like 20 diff kinds	[06:39]
BitHub	;)	[06:39]
Ukto	columbian?	[06:39]
Ukto	:P	[06:39]
BitHub	why do you think i said peso hehe	[06:39]
BitHub	of course i will share that infomation later on :)	[06:39]
BitHub	i dislike this whole cashing back out for fiat tho	[06:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1 BTC [+]	[06:43]
BitHub	nothing personal, just complicated things.	[06:44]
BitHub	s	[06:44]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1875 @ 0.0061 = 11.4375 BTC [-]	[06:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3000 @ 0.006 = 18 BTC [-]	[06:46]
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dub	http://i.imgur.com/CaiOJXo.png wtf is this? 90k btc for 11k xrp?	[06:49]
Bowjob	Hey I'll take that offer	[06:50]
Bowjob	is that a fat finger or??	[06:50]
Namworld	Do you trust the guy? No? Then don't accept the trade...	[06:51]
Namworld	Ripple doesn't hold any currency, the user does.	[06:51]
Namworld	I think it's supposed to be working with Gateways.	[06:52]
Namworld	Trusted gateways give you money on Ripple. You trust the gateway. The gateway give funds to the guy, who sells it to you. You withdraw at the gateway. Or from the guy if it's not issued by a gateway and you trust the person.	[06:53]
Bowjob	whats a gateway	[06:53]
Namworld	I think it works basically with users issue BTC/USD/etc themselves	[06:53]
Namworld	and you trust money issued by certain users	[06:54]
Namworld	A gateway would be a trust user	[06:54]
BitHub	aka bitcoin agent	[06:54]
BitHub	broker	[06:54]
BitHub	etc	[06:54]
Namworld	ask Joel Katz on the forum, or something like that. Or look for it on the forum. I don't know much about how Ripple works exactly.	[06:54]
Namworld	Basically the thing is way too complicated for me to even want to mess around with it.	[06:55]
Bowjob	bitcoin is already confusing to the general public	[06:56]
Bowjob	now theres XRPs too	[06:56]
Bowjob	lol	[06:56]
Namworld	I need to build a network of contact to find trade offers and have to find gateways I trust as a source to accept funds	[06:56]
Namworld	not that the concept is bad... but building itthe network from the grounds up would be considerable work...	[06:56]
BitHub	gateways taken offers at market price?	[06:56]
BitHub	what country are you in nam?	[06:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00076936 = 2.6543 BTC [+]	[06:58]
Namworld	Canada	[06:58]
BitHub	hmm	[06:59]
BitHub	are you buying and selling btc within canada atm?	[07:01]
Namworld	On occasions, yes	[07:02]
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Namworld	mircea_popescu: sorry to be dicking around like that and asking already for a withdrawal just after depositing, but my funds are once again needed elsewhere.	[07:05]
Namworld	Sheesh, with all the BitVPS shares, S.DICE and other stuff I have, I don't have much capital laying around	[07:06]
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Namworld	Also I placed 5120 S.DICE-PT for sal at 0.0062 if someone wanted to load up before the dividend.	[07:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 16.95 BTC [+]	[07:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 6 @ 0.675 = 4.05 BTC [+]	[07:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.675 = 2.7 BTC [+]	[07:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 17 BTC [+]	[07:19]
Bowjob	Just wtf is going on at Havelock lol	[07:21]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc;stats	[07:21]
gribble	Error: "bc;stats" is not a valid command.	[07:21]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[07:21]
gribble	Current Blocks: 223169 \| Current Difficulty: 3651011.630693214 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 223775 \| Next Difficulty In: 606 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 1 hour, 27 minutes, and 16 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 4373609.64927 \| Estimated Percent Change: 19.79172	[07:21]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.678 BTC [+]	[07:21]
ThickAsThieves	;;estimate	[07:22]
gribble	Next difficulty estimate \| 4373609.64927 based on data since last change \| 4587789.77324 based on data for last three days	[07:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.678 BTC [+]	[07:22]
Namworld	Havelock... the overpriced market...	[07:23]
Namworld	I want to arbitrage that =/	[07:23]
ThickAsThieves	can say the same about mpex too this week	[07:23]
Namworld	aight	[07:23]
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Namworld	Thank you mircea	[07:25]
Namworld	MPEx probably has the fastest withdrawal/deposit time for manual processing.	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	Just wtf is going on at Havelock lol << what ?	[07:27]
Bowjob	the HIM fund just went up crazy	[07:28]
mircea_popescu	what's that even	[07:28]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[15:12]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: Bitcoin asset exchanges: http://mpex.co \|\| https://coinbr.com \|\| https://www.havelockinvestments.com \|\| https://btct.co \|\| https://bitfunder.com \|\| https://icbit.se \|\| https://cryptostocks.com \|\| https://therocktrading.com \|\| http://picostocks.com \|\| list bot commands: !help \|\| Streaming trades only: #bitcoin-assets-trades \|\| biased msg: http://bit4x.com	[15:12]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~T42@89-212-41-49.static.t-2.net at Thu Feb 14 01:53:47 2013	[15:12]
Namworld	BitVPS is on BTCT.co, Ziggap is on BitFunder	[15:12]
-NickServ-	You failed to identify in time for the nickname mircea_popescu	[15:12]
*	You are now known as Guest78876	[15:12]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[15:13]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: Bitcoin asset exchanges: http://mpex.co \|\| https://coinbr.com \|\| https://www.havelockinvestments.com \|\| https://btct.co \|\| https://bitfunder.com \|\| https://icbit.se \|\| https://cryptostocks.com \|\| https://therocktrading.com \|\| http://picostocks.com \|\| list bot commands: !help \|\| Streaming trades only: #bitcoin-assets-trades \|\| biased msg: http://bit4x.com	[15:13]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~T42@89-212-41-49.static.t-2.net at Thu Feb 14 01:53:47 2013	[15:13]
Eduard_Munteanu	Namworld: I'm not sure I get it, is 30BTC a fee, or do you get to use it after registering?	[15:13]
Namworld	It's a fee	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	Eduard_Munteanu it's a fee.	[15:13]
Namworld	It goes into profits for the exchange and fees are distributed to MPOE holders	[15:14]
Eduard_Munteanu	I see.	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	also, are you romanian ?	[15:14]
Eduard_Munteanu	mircea_popescu: yes :)	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	haha cool.	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	you're like the first i think..	[15:14]
Eduard_Munteanu	Interesting. I think I got PMed by another one on #bitcoin.	[15:15]
Eduard_Munteanu	I don't remember the nick unfortunately.	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	not in bitcoin, on mpex.	[15:15]
Eduard_Munteanu	Ah.	[15:15]
Eduard_Munteanu	I'm rather new to BTC as well.	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	cool.	[15:15]
Namworld	(mircea is romanian too as you might have guessed by the name and happen to be MPEx's owner)	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[15:16]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 31.40001, Best ask: 31.40100, Bid-ask spread: 0.00099, Last trade: 31.40100, 24 hour volume: 33370.91437260, 24 hour low: 30.07000, 24 hour high: 31.60000, 24 hour vwap: 30.66622	[15:16]
Namworld	In case that wasn't clear.	[15:16]
Bowjob	rally bitche	[15:16]
Bowjob	s	[15:16]
Eduard_Munteanu	Yeah, I figured. :)	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob where's bugpowder's graphlines when you need them!	[15:16]
Eduard_Munteanu	mircea_popescu: I think I've seen you around #haskell lately? Not sure.	[15:17]
mircea_popescu	possibly, for some values of lately.	[15:17]
Bowjob	BFL fans developing Stockholm syndrome, its delicious	[15:17]
mircea_popescu	lol quote	[15:17]
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mircea_popescu	anyway Eduard_Munteanu, you're like one of the few that can read this natively :	[15:19]
mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/sa-ne-jucam-de-a-investitiile-n-bitcoini/	[15:19]
Eduard_Munteanu	mircea_popescu: yep... pretty cool business you got there. Are you from Bucharest?	[15:21]
mircea_popescu	no. cluj originally, but i reside in timisoara.	[15:21]
mircea_popescu	okay, queue flushed and i shall be back later. take care all.	[15:23]
Eduard_Munteanu	I was considering buying/selling some bitcoins locally, the spreads seem pretty high.	[15:23]
Namworld	The best way to get market rate is bank transfer to an exchange	[15:24]
Eduard_Munteanu	Namworld: ah, no, I'm interested in making money :)	[15:24]
Bicknellski	Hehehe	[15:24]
Namworld	trade locally, buy low, sell high	[15:25]
Bicknellski	Yup	[15:25]
Bicknellski	especially if people are in need of fiat	[15:25]
Eduard_Munteanu	Anyway, I need to sell quite a few Pecunix to get some BTCs first.	[15:25]
Bicknellski	What is that Eduard?	[15:25]
Bicknellski	local ecurrency?	[15:25]
Eduard_Munteanu	Bicknellski: no, an ecurrency equivalent to a gram of gold	[15:26]
Bicknellski	I googled it	[15:26]
Bicknellski	thanks..	[15:26]
Namworld	Eduard: be wary however.	[15:26]
Eduard_Munteanu	Namworld: of local trading?	[15:26]
Namworld	No, the BTC price raised by over 100% in the last two months	[15:27]
Namworld	It might not keep it's worth for long. BTC is volatile.	[15:27]
Eduard_Munteanu	Yeah, I know. I'd like to wait a bit and see if it crashes.	[15:27]
Namworld	It goes up and down wildly with news.	[15:27]
Namworld	other than that, the global picture is a slow and steady raise.	[15:27]
Eduard_Munteanu	The demand might be gone after the ASICs are sold.	[15:28]
Bicknellski	same here... but the bubble seems to be more of a new normal	[15:28]
Namworld	Also be wary, many BTC stocks end up being scams or perform poorly.	[15:29]
Bicknellski	there is a lot more money in than the last time when it tanked	[15:29]
Bicknellski	But I think you are right local trading is a very good way to go	[15:31]
Bicknellski	just finding BTC locally is a hard one	[15:31]
Namworld	Lots of investigation required. There's occasional opportunities that open, usually best flipping it right back.	[15:31]
Bicknellski	at least for me anyhow	[15:31]
Eduard_Munteanu	The spreads are huge, the only ones selling are doing it for $37/BTC.	[15:31]
Namworld	ouch	[15:31]
TomServo	Anyone ever heard of a local trade 'gone wrong'?	[15:32]
Chaang-Noi	id sell at 37 $ :)	[15:32]
Namworld	I didn't... but that might have happened.	[15:33]
Chaang-Noi	no, but i bet people will get mugged over it one of these days	[15:33]
Chaang-Noi	make sure to meet in a bank loby or something, lol	[15:33]
Eduard_Munteanu	Good thing we don't carry BTCs around in our wallets.	[15:33]
kakobrekla	i do	[15:34]
Eduard_Munteanu	kakobrekla: cool, some BTC-denominated card?	[15:34]
kakobrekla	cas coin and some home made priv keys printed as bank note	[15:34]
Eduard_Munteanu	Interesting.	[15:35]
Eduard_Munteanu	That's one way to print your own notes.	[15:35]
Eduard_Munteanu	BTC rules.	[15:35]
Eduard_Munteanu	Namworld: do you have fancier stuff like options or shorting?	[15:39]
Namworld	No, unfortunatly. Not easy to set up.	[15:40]
Eduard_Munteanu	Yeah. Also I suppose shorting is risky for the lender.	[15:40]
Namworld	I can broker options manually on request.	[15:40]
Namworld	Yes, I don't lend my assets.	[15:41]
kakobrekla	Yes, I don't lend my ass.	[15:41]
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DeadWeasel	selfish lovers	[15:43]
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Chaang-Noi	;;asks 32	[15:44]
gribble	There are currently 11216.171 bitcoins offered at or under 32.0 USD, worth 357926.122005 USD in total.	[15:44]
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Namworld	We'll break the all time high at this rate...	[15:45]
DeadWeasel	what psychological impact will that have? I would guess short term dumping by a steady rise, if the dumps aren't maintained	[15:46]
DeadWeasel	followed by*	[15:46]
DeadWeasel	would like to see a dump around 32.69ish, then buy back in a few dollars cheaper if possible.	[15:47]
Namworld	I'd be more for extreme frenzy of old followed by a steep decline.	[15:47]
DeadWeasel	so impossible to know	[15:47]
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DeadWeasel	frenzy of old?	[15:48]
Namworld	in 2011	[15:48]
Namworld	Where for a short time it really skyrocketed.	[15:48]
DeadWeasel	this rise has been slightly more metered.	[15:49]
Namworld	perhaps...	[15:50]
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Chaang-Noi	anyone know the odds for this site? http://kingco.in/	[15:51]
Chaang-Noi	i dont mind us staying under it for a month, then i giant break out to $50	[15:52]
kakobrekla	yeah well	[15:53]
kakobrekla	a lot of people is saying that	[15:53]
abracadabra	the odds are not in your favor	[15:53]
abracadabra	;)	[15:53]
kakobrekla	lucky theres always dubasses that dump	[15:53]
Chaang-Noi	abra, im sure, but im up 120% just testing it	[15:54]
Namworld	I think the dumbasses are the ones mass buying currently.	[15:56]
kakobrekla	sell all you have then	[15:56]
Namworld	I'm not selling. On the very long term, I'm long. But in the short term, I'm short after such a large rise.	[15:57]
Eduard_Munteanu	I wish I could short BTC right now.	[15:58]
Namworld	I got BTC placed in USD based income businesses.	[15:58]
kakobrekla	lol	[16:01]
kakobrekla	bfl bet rehashed	[16:01]
kakobrekla	http://bitbet.us/bet/261/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-march-15th/	[16:01]
kakobrekla	this time im not the author tho	[16:02]
kakobrekla	belivers went quiet?	[16:03]
ThickAsThieves	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21589128 Bank Of England considering negative interest rates	[16:05]
ThickAsThieves	we don't want your money	[16:06]
Eduard_Munteanu	ThickAsThieves: I'm cool with that as long as they don't lend my money	[16:06]
Chaang-Noi	someone was here a while ago saying they bought on credit cards	[16:06]
Bicknellski	Man I have to buy some BTC soon no matter what yuk!	[16:07]
Eduard_Munteanu	That's how full reserve should work. Otherwise, no way, GTFO. :)	[16:07]
Eduard_Munteanu	If the interest rate doesn't cover the inflation, you're probably better off keeping your money in a warehouse, safe deposit box, full reserve bank, some other currency etc.	[16:08]
Bicknellski	Bank Of England considering negative interest rates (Freicoin)	[16:10]
Bicknellski	:)	[16:10]
Bicknellski	BFL is so fubar	[16:13]
Diablo-D3	negative interest rates? lol	[16:13]
Bicknellski	Awesome right	[16:21]
Bicknellski	spread the wealth people...	[16:21]
jurov	lol if banks don't know what to do with money, why not fund long term infrastructure/scientific development..	[16:21]
jurov	...but that doesn't look good on quarterly report, yeah	[16:21]
Bicknellski	The money is broken	[16:22]
Bicknellski	;)	[16:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00076482 = 6.0421 BTC [-]	[16:24]
DeadWeasel	the money is broken, lol.	[16:25]
DeadWeasel	very broken	[16:25]
Bicknellski	Yup	[16:25]
Bicknellski	... hahaha	[16:25]
Eduard_Munteanu	Who needs banks when you have BITCOIN! :)	[16:33]
Namworld	You said you were new but seem to already have catched the Bitcoin bug.	[16:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1084 @ 0.00076482 = 0.8291 BTC [-]	[16:34]
Eduard_Munteanu	Namworld: indeed, quite fun	[16:35]
thestringpuller	Namworld:	[16:35]
thestringpuller	yt?	[16:36]
Namworld	hmm... what's yt?	[16:36]
ThickAsThieves	you there?	[16:36]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[16:37]
gribble	Current Blocks: 223218 \| Current Difficulty: 3651011.630693214 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 223775 \| Next Difficulty In: 557 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 6 hours, 38 minutes, and 7 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 4316094.45818 \| Estimated Percent Change: 18.2164	[16:37]
Namworld	ah. Well obviously since I talked two minutes ago.	[16:37]
Namworld	Eduard: then you might appreciate this tool I've made: http://namcdn.com/btcalarm/	[16:37]
Bicknellski	4316094.45818 vs 3651011.630693214	[16:37]
Namworld	I use it to wake up when price moves on MtGox	[16:37]
Eduard_Munteanu	Hm, interesting, thanks.	[16:37]
Namworld	thestringpuller, what did you want?	[16:38]
Bicknellski	Doctor SP.	[16:38]
thestringpuller	a vps and a new domain name	[16:39]
thestringpuller	for another project	[16:39]
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Namworld	Ah, I see.	[16:40]
Namworld	You will need to wait for Arij or Phungus to be around to set up a VPS.	[16:40]
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thestringpuller	when would that bd	[16:46]
thestringpuller	be*	[16:46]
Namworld	You have an order up on bitvps.com?	[16:49]
Namworld	Should be set somewhere this afternoon/evening then.	[16:49]
Namworld	Hmm, nothing else?	[16:54]
Namworld	I'm off for now.	[16:54]
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thestringpuller	!ticker m O.BTCUSD.C310T	[17:46]
assbot	[MPEX:O.BTCUSD.C310T] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.25778105 / 0.25819404 / 0.28103279 (563 shares, 145.36 BTC), 30D: 0.25778105 / 0.25819404 / 0.28103279 (563 shares, 145.36 BTC)	[17:46]
thestringpuller	!ticker m O.BTCUSD.C350T	[17:46]
assbot	[MPEX:O.BTCUSD.C350T] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.2057493 / 0.2057493 / 0.2057493 (916 shares, 188.47 BTC), 30D: 0.2057493 / 0.2057493 / 0.2057493 (916 shares, 188.47 BTC)	[17:46]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.68 = 1.36 BTC [+]	[17:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1816 @ 0.00076391 = 1.3873 BTC [-]	[18:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6645 @ 0.00076935 = 5.1123 BTC [+]	[18:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17489 @ 0.00076936 = 13.4553 BTC [+]	[18:03]
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DeadWeasel	;;ticker	[18:58]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 31.01298, Best ask: 31.03999, Bid-ask spread: 0.02701, Last trade: 31.03999, 24 hour volume: 39955.84230975, 24 hour low: 30.11000, 24 hour high: 31.69900, 24 hour vwap: 30.85183	[18:58]
DeadWeasel	;;bc,24prc	[18:58]
gribble	Error: "bc,24prc" is not a valid command.	[18:58]
DeadWeasel	;;bc,24hprc	[18:58]
gribble	30.80	[18:58]
aethero	Updated volume and profit statements for ZIGGAP released on it's BitFunder description page	[18:59]
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ThickAsThieves	thx	[19:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00629175 = 6.2918 BTC [-]	[19:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 700 @ 0.00629176 = 4.4042 BTC [+]	[19:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1000 @ 0.00071 = 0.71 BTC [-]	[19:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1055 @ 0.0007 = 0.7385 BTC [-]	[19:25]
topace	anyone used php's gpg extensiosn? when i gnupg_verify, i get a "validity" field in the result, that seems to be 0 for failed, or 4 for valid... but i have no clue what the 4 means, or if i should accept 1,2,3,4,etc as valid as well?	[19:30]
mod6	On success, this function returns information about the signature. On failure, this function returns FALSE.	[19:32]
mod6	so maybe any integer returned is ok	[19:32]
mod6	http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.gnupg-verify.php	[19:32]
topace	failure doesnt mean signature invalid	[19:33]
topace	an invalid signature still returns the array of information about the sig	[19:33]
mod6	ahh, well too bad its not like perl where you can just look in the PM to find what's what.	[19:33]
topace	{"fingerprint":"8DDE8C2B4DE2278A95C3D65B9214FC6BF1B69921","validity":4,"timestamp":1361385050,"status":0,"summary":3}	[19:35]
topace	it returns things like that	[19:35]
topace	i have no clue what status, summary, or validity values are	[19:36]
mod6	what does it say if you make it fail	[19:36]
topace	{"fingerprint":"9214FC6BF1B69921","validity":0,"timestamp":0,"status":117440520,"summary":4}	[19:37]
mod6	hmm. so if validity is > 0 you're ok?	[19:38]
topace	thats what i'd like to really be sure of.. not really something i can ASSUME	[19:38]
mod6	fair enough	[19:38]
topace	im making a way to automatically push assets from MPEX to Havelock, simply by pasting in a PUSH receipt	[19:38]
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mod6	i remember you saying this before.	[19:40]
mod6	i don't know how one does that. In my mind, person A owns 1 share of XYZ and he can push to another key on the MPEx keyring (weather it exists on the keyring or not) ... but how does one push this to a remote keyring?	[19:41]
mod6	i would think that i'd have to be different to discern who person A is on the remote system and just dump the 1 XYZ in there, while keeping the 1 XYZ in holdings on MPEx	[19:42]
mod6	s/i'd/it'd/	[19:42]
topace	yes, you would push it from your mpex account to the havelock mpex account	[19:43]
topace	then paste the push receipt into the havelock website, which would verify 6 things:	[19:43]
mod6	but how? i mean, on mpex its just like "PUSH\|MPSIC\|LONGKEYFINGERPRINT\|QTY"	[19:44]
mod6	how do you specify a destination?	[19:44]
mod6	OH	[19:44]
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mod6	ok... so with the receipt you just parse that on the remote end and use that to verify.	[19:44]
topace	//1 valid signature	[19:44]
topace	//2 that its actually from mpex (fingerprint?)	[19:44]
topace	//3 that its a receipt we have not processed already	[19:44]
topace	//4 that its a push receipt to havelock account	[19:44]
topace	//5 that we recognize what was pushed	[19:44]
topace	//6 that the quantity if what was pushed is ok	[19:44]
mod6	yeah, this could get hairy dude.	[19:44]
topace	its actually very straightforward	[19:45]
topace	and secure	[19:45]
mod6	good luck :)	[19:45]
topace	as long as one can trust and properly interpret the result from gnupg_verify()	[19:46]
mod6	yeah, seems like if you could know for certain about 1-6 it could work pretty good. could reek havoc though if there was any problems.	[19:49]
topace	when i launch it, it'll go through a manual approval step for the first little while, just to make sure :)	[19:53]
topace	but from my understanding, it should work just fine, i ran it by mp too and he seemed to think it should work well	[19:53]
mod6	yeah it seems like it could work out decent. doing it manually in tandom for a while would be good to ensure that the correct values get to the correct accounts, etc.	[20:01]
mod6	its shitty when neat-o libraries don't define their return statements, nor can they be correlated to a given spec.	[20:02]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 1 @ 0.64798 BTC [+]	[20:02]
mod6	at least not easily found or whatever :/	[20:02]
mod6	back to the first statement: On success, this function returns information about the signature. On failure, this function returns FALSE.	[20:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 25 @ 0.01 = 0.25 BTC [+]	[20:03]
mod6	i'd be nice to know what {1,2,3,4...} are for! lol	[20:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.33 BTC [+]	[20:03]
mod6	hahaha	[20:06]
mod6	If verification fails, the gnupg_verify() returns the key's id instead of fingerprint . It does not return FALSE as stated above (PHP4, have not tested PHP5). You can compare it with result of keyinfo:	[20:06]
mod6	http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.gnupg-verify.php#89192	[20:06]
mod6	so much for returning FALSE	[20:06]
topace	yea	[20:07]
topace	thats what i said, it always returns an array	[20:07]
topace	unless the function itself completely fails for some reason	[20:07]
topace	its just checking the values from the returned array (esp the "validity" field) that i need to be 100% sure about	[20:07]
mod6	yeah, i see.	[20:07]
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mod6	this seems like it could work pretty good with some testing	[20:10]
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topace	not sure how much demand there would be... its possible now, for free, just manaually processed, and nobody has taken advantage of it yet	[20:13]
topace	but for the naysayers that think im "hogging all the arbitrage" as i add more units to havelock.. it'll satisfy them at least (give them the opportunity to do the same arbitrage)	[20:14]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.3449 BTC [+]	[20:22]
mod6	topace: yeah, seems like it would be some good arbitrage oppertunities -- im sure with this automated demand would pick up over time.	[20:26]
mod6	:]	[20:26]
mod6	We're not engaged in a currency war.	[20:28]
mod6	o rly?	[20:28]
mod6	http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000150533	[20:29]
mod6	ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US	[20:29]
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ThickAsThieves	top, i didnt know you did that	[20:38]
ThickAsThieves	facilitate buys from mpex	[20:38]
ThickAsThieves	so i used other exchanges in the past	[20:39]
ThickAsThieves	i started on havelock	[20:39]
ThickAsThieves	but to be fair, I didn't know anyone did it til Deadterra	[20:39]
ThickAsThieves	why wouldn't you just hog all the arbitrage if you have the ability?	[20:41]
topace	ThickAsThieves: yea havelock launched teh SDICE passthru beginning of January	[20:44]
topace	and we allow users to push existing holdings from mpex to havelock, or from havelock back to mpex	[20:44]
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topace	ThickAsThieves: i dont mind hogging all the arbitrage at all, but its kind of a conflict of interest since i run the site... if my goal is simply arbitrage at least... which it hasnt been since we launched.. my goal has been to grow the sdice holdings on havelock, and the only way to do that is to buy on mpex and sell the units on havelcok, so the arbitrage is a added side-benifit to me.	[20:46]
topace	i move things at break-even often, so no profit from the arbitrage at all	[20:46]
topace	just to get more units onto havelock	[20:46]
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ThickAsThieves	the 5% cut being plenty	[20:47]
ThickAsThieves	make sense	[20:47]
topace	but the more liquid the better, so if its easier for others to do the arbitrage as well, im all for that	[20:48]
topace	thus, why i want to setup this automatic push system	[20:48]
topace	instead of having to manually process push requests	[20:48]
ThickAsThieves	but this would only be for people who have an mpex account right	[20:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 2000 @ 0.00634999 = 12.7 BTC [+]	[20:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 3000 @ 0.00635 = 19.05 BTC [+]	[20:49]
ThickAsThieves	the feature you are developing, I mean	[20:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 24 @ 0.640001 = 15.36 BTC [-]	[20:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.64000002 = 1.28 BTC [-]	[20:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 15 @ 0.64000001 = 9.6 BTC [-]	[20:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.64 = 5.76 BTC [-]	[20:49]
ThickAsThieves	i need to just get an mpex account already	[20:49]
topace	yea exactly, it would only work if you also had an mpex account	[20:50]
topace	or, had someone with an mpex account willing to purchase/push on you rbehalf (others here have made that offer to people before i've seen)	[20:50]
ThickAsThieves	ah, thats what I was referring to with deadterra	[20:50]
ThickAsThieves	buying on mpex for me and pushing to BF	[20:51]
topace	yea.. i'd do that for havelock users too, if im around	[20:51]
topace	but im not here 24/7, and often when the good arbitrage opportunities come up, you have to act quickly	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	right	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	several us have had urges to cream into your bids for sdice in recent weeks	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	of	[20:52]
topace	yea, im amazed at the demand for sdice on havelock	[20:53]
topace	and it just keeps growing	[20:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 5000 @ 0.00635 = 31.75 BTC [+]	[20:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.64 = 5.12 BTC [-]	[20:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 15 @ 0.639 = 9.585 BTC [-]	[20:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 13 @ 0.63200001 = 8.216 BTC [-]	[20:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 14 @ 0.632 = 8.848 BTC [-]	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	would this be something that could be integrated with coinbr	[20:55]
topace	^ there, i actually LOST bitcoins doing that arbigrage, just to move another 5000 shares to havelock	[20:55]
ThickAsThieves	but thats only beneficial for YOU ;)	[20:55]
topace	indeed :)	[20:56]
topace	1,050,000 SDICE shares now on havelock	[20:56]
topace	not sure about integrating with coinbr, anything is possible though	[20:57]
topace	if coinbr gives you PUSH receipts from mpex, then it would work	[20:57]
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jurov	coinbr does push completely manually, i can give you the receipt if needed	[21:01]
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topace	do users get the receipt?	[21:03]
jurov	yes if they ask	[21:03]
topace	well, let me get automatic mpex<-->havelock setup first, then lets talk about setting up coinbr<-->havelock :)	[21:04]
jurov	anyway i did it only once so far... with your offering this may get requested more and be the impetus do do it better	[21:04]
jurov	but i'm very wary of any automatic moving of stuff to/from mpex	[21:04]
jurov	not easy to fix afterwards, you know	[21:05]
pigeons	you'll have to sue the proprieotr in his own court if you make an error	[21:06]
topace	heh yea	[21:07]
jurov	if there's a know proprietor, ofc	[21:07]
jurov	*known	[21:07]
topace	the 'automatic' is going to have a final approval button for me to click for the first little while	[21:07]
topace	just to make sure	[21:07]
topace	but realistically, it should work perfectly	[21:07]
topace	and im always in favour of automating things	[21:08]
topace	i like residual income, not income i have to work for!	[21:08]
jurov	if there's only one fixed address involved it's doable	[21:09]
jurov	but the thought of supporting automatic transfers to anywhere makes my hair stand up	[21:09]
jurov	maybe i'll have to use extra account for that, move the user's stuff there	[21:10]
jurov	and then in separate step move it out	[21:10]
jurov	and accepting incoming transfers likewise on other direction	[21:10]
jurov	so that neither coinbr's core addy gets known nor successful attack of frontend enable attacker to push stuff onto his account	[21:15]
topace	heh you must not trust your own security then :p	[21:16]
jurov	i don't have to trust the filthy bitvps machine, that's all	[21:17]
topace	ah	[21:17]
topace	own all my physical servers	[21:17]
topace	and they're locked in my own cage at the data center	[21:17]
jurov	i prefer to have frontend and backed physically separated	[21:17]
jurov	i also expect ddos, it will make it handling easier if backend is completely elsewhere	[21:18]
jurov	bootstrapping it completely, has to do things as lean as possible	[21:20]
jurov	can't expect any investor in this situation "okay, now tell me more about this mircea popescu" lol	[21:20]
jurov	even if i paint him in rosy colors, then they come around trilema blog and MPOE-PR haha	[21:23]
jurov	whatever. i'm used to doing things in this fashion.	[21:25]
jurov	alone	[21:25]
thestringpuller	jurov mircea_popescu will likely be your first big investor	[21:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 7 @ 0.00636 = 0.0445 BTC [+]	[21:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 93 @ 0.00636 = 0.5915 BTC [+]	[21:27]
jurov	he is not interested in doing noob interface.	[21:27]
jurov	maybe we can do some other project like he did with kakobrekla if i come around interesting idea	[21:27]
thestringpuller	bitbet is going to grow rather slow	[21:28]
jurov	but hockey stick curve for bitbet is possible, if it becomes as popular as sdice	[21:29]
*	terryww (~terryww@84-255-240-24.static.t-2.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:30]
jurov	i decided to dampen things in coinbr by asking monthly fee... after several months i can say i did it right	[21:30]
jurov	the issues i had would be unsolvable with 10-100x higher volume	[21:30]
swhitt	;;bc,stats	[21:31]
gribble	Current Blocks: 223259 \| Current Difficulty: 3651011.630693214 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 223775 \| Next Difficulty In: 516 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 2 hours, 9 minutes, and 20 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 4336419.58974 \| Estimated Percent Change: 18.7731	[21:31]
swhitt	,,bc,stats	[21:31]
swhitt	bleh	[21:31]
*	Schadenfreude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[21:35]
*	SpNg (~ARolek@wsip-70-167-118-33.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:36]
*	burnside_afk is now known as burnside	[21:36]
topace	!ticker h sdice	[21:37]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.63000000 / 0.6383501 / 0.68000000 (240 shares, 153.20402432 BTC), 7D: 0.60000000 / 0.65789684 / 0.74399999 (1300 shares, 855.26589784 BTC), 30D: 0.52100000 / 0.6659979 / 0.89000000 (11030 shares, 7345.95684524 BTC)	[21:37]
jurov	;;calc 4336419 * 1.5	[21:40]
gribble	6504628.5	[21:40]
jurov	how likely is the diff to go up by 50% around March 14?	[21:41]
jurov	with no signs of fpga progress... maybe i can sell some more iDiff-Os at 0.07	[21:42]
ThickAsThieves	looking less and less likely	[21:43]
ThickAsThieves	not one asic provider is meeting their projections	[21:43]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GOLD] 1 @ 0.5008 BTC [-]	[21:46]
*	Schadenfreude (~m@178.115.251.49.wireless.dyn.drei.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:47]
*	daybyter (~andreas@88-134-94-125-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:48]
DeadWeasel	;;ticker	[21:49]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 30.96001, Best ask: 30.99000, Bid-ask spread: 0.02999, Last trade: 30.88007, 24 hour volume: 42692.62675683, 24 hour low: 30.11000, 24 hour high: 31.69900, 24 hour vwap: 30.92679	[21:49]
swhitt	I bet BFL won't ship until the end of march	[21:49]
DeadWeasel	end of april, if at all	[21:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 10 @ 0.00991 = 0.0991 BTC [-]	[21:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 38 @ 0.0099 = 0.3762 BTC [-]	[21:57]
*	Bowjob has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[22:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00076 = 2.128 BTC [-]	[22:21]
DeadWeasel	;;slap balls	[22:26]
*	gribble slaps balls with a mean AK-47	[22:26]
mod6	yikes	[22:27]
mod6	7.62x39 to the ball bag != good day	[22:27]
DeadWeasel	nope. i just want to go home.	[22:27]
DeadWeasel	fucking jobs and the money they pay me.	[22:27]
DeadWeasel	jerks	[22:27]
mod6	ahh werd	[22:28]
*	robocoin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[22:34]
*	LainZ (~LainZ@nan92-8-88-178-252-103.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:37]
*	DeadWeasel is now known as fartknocker	[22:37]
*	fartknocker is now known as deadweasel	[22:38]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 10 @ 1 = 10 BTC [+]	[22:41]
kakobrekla	sup bitches'	[22:44]
deadweasel	;;slap balls	[22:44]
*	gribble slaps balls with a slushy carcass	[22:44]
deadweasel	ballsacks	[22:44]
deadweasel	that's what	[22:44]
deadweasel	sup witch u kako?	[22:45]
deadweasel	mah brudda?!?!	[22:45]
kakobrekla	:D	[22:45]
deadweasel	srsly, I just don't give a fuck about working anymore.	[22:45]
deadweasel	i gotta get out of here.	[22:45]
kakobrekla	all good, been a long day which is just about to start really	[22:45]
kakobrekla	yes, stop wroking.	[22:46]
kakobrekla	working	[22:46]
*	daybyter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[22:46]
kakobrekla	its silly!	[22:46]
*	Bugpowder (cef100f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.241.0.249) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:46]
*	Bugpowder is now known as Guest211	[22:47]
deadweasel	bugpowder, you're here! and kakobrekla ! you can watch my apathy grow!	[22:47]
kakobrekla	show us what u got	[22:47]
deadweasel	it's thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis big.	[22:47]
deadweasel	1 million strong, and groooooowing	[22:48]
deadweasel	i'm closing this ssh session. these people want to offer me a permament position, I should pretend to work the last 10 minutes i'm here.	[22:49]
deadweasel	adios	[22:49]
*	deadweasel (~DeadWease@cpe-74-75-235-219.maine.res.rr.com) has left #bitcoin-assets	[22:49]
jurov	doing things over ssh = not working? strange	[22:49]
*	Guest211 is now known as Bugpowdr	[22:51]
Bugpowdr	huh?	[22:51]
Bugpowdr	The reddit wankers are getting more pathetic by the day. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/199vvi/bitcoins_and_how_they_changed_my_life/	[22:52]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 17.5 BTC [+]	[22:52]
Bugpowdr	"At this point, bitcoins could go to $0 without any regrets" I seriously doubt that this statement is true.	[22:52]
dub	don't forget the $1000 ripples	[22:53]
jurov	i seriously expected mention of silkroad/satoshidice	[22:54]
dub	or whatever XBC is	[22:54]
jcpham	OMG dub R U SELLING XBC??????!?!?!?!	[22:54]
dub	what is xbc	[22:54]
jcpham	shrug	[22:54]
dub	and yes I am selling it	[22:54]
jcpham	schweet	[22:54]
error4733	me too 50K	[22:55]
dub	100btc each you send first	[22:55]
error4733	for 50K s.dice	[22:55]
jcpham	can iripple with it?	[22:55]
*	Transisto has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)	[23:01]
topace	jesus, HIM trading at 17.50 BTC	[23:05]
dub	what is HIM	[23:05]
topace	thats over $500/share	[23:05]
topace	https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=HIM	[23:05]
topace	good thing we're doing the 1:10 stock split on friday	[23:06]
topace	bring things back to a normal level	[23:06]
dub	eww worldwidewebternet	[23:06]
dub	I prefer not to	[23:06]
topace	we're the berkshire hathaway of bitcon investmetns right now	[23:06]
*	Transisto (~TransistO@bas2-quebec03-1176410855.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:08]
*	Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:08]
Namworld_afk	Bugpowdr: personally I wouldn't mind that much right if BTC went to zero and died.	[23:10]
*	Transisto (~TransistO@bas2-quebec03-1176410855.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:11]
thestringpuller	topace berkshire hathaway? bold claim	[23:12]
thestringpuller	also if you were truly B-H you wouldnt split the stock	[23:12]
burnside	what's the rough hashrate/share right now on HIM?	[23:15]
topace	thestringpuller: just from a high price perspective at least. not referring at all to possible returns	[23:17]
topace	not many people are willing to drop $500+ on a single unit of an investment	[23:17]
topace	yea, we dont want to be b-h :) we want market liquidity	[23:17]
topace	and that only comes at this point with either a) millionaires, or b) lower per-unit price	[23:18]
topace	burnside: about 25GH	[23:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 17 BTC [-]	[23:18]
topace	err actually, ~23GH, we shut off a a few of the old GPU machines, only FPGA's are running now	[23:18]
pigeons	keep talking maybe someone will buy another	[23:19]
topace	ahaha apparently	[23:19]
pigeons	:)	[23:19]
midnightmagic	25GH.. per share?	[23:19]
topace	nonono	[23:19]
midnightmagic	25GH total. How many shared?	[23:19]
midnightmagic	er.. shares?	[23:20]
topace	https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=HIM	[23:20]
midnightmagic	Are they ownership stakes in the mining equipment?	[23:20]
topace	yes	[23:20]
topace	a share is its percent of the total ownership of the compnay	[23:20]
topace	400 shares	[23:20]
topace	on friday it'll be 4000	[23:20]
midnightmagic	Oh, they're actual shares in a company..?	[23:20]
midnightmagic	Are the articles of incorporation available somewhere?	[23:21]
midnightmagic	aaargh there's an sdice passthrough. lol	[23:22]
midnightmagic	topace: Hey if they're ownership stakes does that mean we can trade the shares in for shipped fpga units?	[23:22]
topace	they arent shares, they are units :)	[23:23]
topace	and no, you cant trade a unit in for a shipped fpga	[23:23]
midnightmagic	topace: What FPGAs are you running? ztex?	[23:25]
Bugpowdr	Namworld_afk: you buy puts again?	[23:25]
topace	bfl	[23:25]
topace	and have pre-orders in for asic upgrades on every fpga already (since july/august).. if bfl ever ships, lol	[23:25]
topace	the delays all the asic producers have had have been great for the fund though, much better return on the FPGAs	[23:26]
topace	https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=8159181&V_TOKEN=1361913886449&crpNm=8159181&crpNmbr=&bsNmbr=	[23:26]
topace	not sure if that'll work, ight have the session in it...	[23:26]
midnightmagic	it works. That's the corporation?	[23:30]
midnightmagic	Are the articles of incorporation somewhere on that page, or are they elsewhere?	[23:30]
midnightmagic	good heravens, if that's you, you're federally incorporated dude.	[23:31]
dub	federation of moosecock?	[23:32]
midnightmagic	dub: how droll	[23:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00074744 = 7.4744 BTC [-]	[23:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2015 @ 0.00074743 = 1.5061 BTC [-]	[23:39]
burnside	topace, thanks, that's pretty good.	[23:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C310T] 8 @ 0.17554903 = 1.4044 BTC [-]	[23:42]
topace	yea	[23:48]
topace	we're federally incorporated	[23:48]
*	Chilca has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:50]
topace	it costs $200 and takes 15 minutes online to get a federal corporation	[23:54]
topace	in canada	[23:54]
topace	with it comes a lot of reporting requirements of course, and those are LEGAL requirements	[23:54]
topace	so its easy to get, but not easy to do all the things you have to do once you have it	[23:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 18 BTC [+]	[23:56]
*	da2ce792 (~da2ce7@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:59]

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