Forum logs for 25 Jan 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

jurov	at least javascript must be wrapped in cdata	[00:00]
pankkake	or, don't put javascript in html ;)	[00:00]
nubbins`	nah	[00:00]
nubbins`	just wrap it in	[00:00]
nubbins`	the browser will parse it, and you don't break W3C compliance	[00:01]
kakobrekla	fuck compilance	[00:01]
pankkake	yes, that's the way javascript should be included:	[00:01]
nubbins`	"fuck compliance" is the general mantra, yes	[00:01]
pankkake	kakobrekla: that's the html5 spirit!	[00:01]
kakobrekla	hehe	[00:01]
nubbins`	it's also the html 4.01 spirit	[00:01]
nubbins`	the IE 1-10 spirit	[00:02]
nubbins`	etc	[00:02]
pankkake	no, html5 basically admits "devs can't write correct html, so we are going to spec how browsers should react to bad stuff"	[00:02]
kakobrekla	when i see "this page has been validated" i leave it immediately	[00:02]
kakobrekla	its most prolly scam.	[00:02]
nubbins`	heh	[00:02]
jurov	what? you mean no?	[00:02]
nubbins`	making pages w3c compliant is suck a fucking pain in the hole	[00:03]
nubbins`	for no measurable benefit	[00:03]
kakobrekla	zactly.	[00:03]
nubbins`	*such	[00:03]
pankkake	eh, one of my websites is XHTML 1.1 compliant	[00:03]
kakobrekla	which translates to only idiots do it	[00:03]
pankkake	that's some hardcore stuff	[00:03]
pankkake	jurov: no, that was the joke :p	[00:04]
nubbins`	hmm, only 157 compliance errors on mpex.co	[00:04]
nubbins`	not bad	[00:04]
pankkake	it probably just needs the html5 doctype	[00:04]
nubbins`	nod	[00:05]
pankkake	unless it uses	[00:05]
nubbins`	nah there's no doctype specified	[00:05]
pankkake	which would actually fit right in here	[00:05]
nubbins`	just specifying one would probably get rid of all 157 errors	[00:05]
jurov	i'm using xml templates, somewhere there in between was the reason i can't just comment everything out	[00:05]
pankkake	that's what I meant	[00:05]
nubbins`	xslt	[00:06]
nubbins`	speaking of nightmares...	[00:06]
benkay	it's not that dev's can't in2 html, it's that once a person starts calling themselves a 'dev' they generally have left html behind because the dom is a stateful nightmare to program for	[00:06]
benkay	back buttons	[00:07]
benkay	all the things	[00:07]
nubbins`	fuck the back button	[00:07]
pankkake	fuck web applications	[00:07]
benkay	yeah i had a conversation recently where the conclusion was 'we no ams use back button'	[00:07]
pankkake	it's for documents	[00:07]
nubbins`	at my last job, there was at least one asshole on each project who would ask "can we just disable the browser's back button?"	[00:07]
nubbins`	"well that depends, can i just walk into your house and fuck your wife?"	[00:08]
benkay	too bad web applications are the only way to develop affordably in a way that most mobile browsers can access surfaced data	[00:08]
KRS1	i hate web applications i'm a systems guy	[00:09]
nubbins`	i did web apps for 5 years and then ragequit	[00:09]
benkay	ya well people gotta derp on buttons and see pretty graphs	[00:09]
KRS1	i can see why nubbins`	[00:09]
nubbins`	nod	[00:09]
nubbins`	i'll never do it again	[00:09]
pankkake	I am trying to branch out of web applications	[00:09]
pankkake	not many people want to pay me to write CLI applications though!	[00:09]
kakobrekla	you are all in a webapp	[00:09]
kakobrekla	called webchat for freenode	[00:10]
KRS1	pankkake not much of a choice	[00:10]
pankkake	ban webchat	[00:10]
pankkake	worst invention ever	[00:10]
nubbins`	heh	[00:10]
nubbins`	pankkake, there's plenty of coding to be done that's not web apps and not CLI	[00:10]
pankkake	actually, at some point, I started projects that didn't even have a CLI	[00:10]
pankkake	you had to run the interpreter and import the lib	[00:10]
nubbins`	web services don't have a cli	[00:10]
kakobrekla	i think some do	[00:11]
pankkake	true. that's what I was mostly doing with the webby stuff	[00:11]
nubbins`	well sure, but they're not really used that way in real life	[00:11]
nubbins`	just parsed by code	[00:11]
nubbins`	in general usage, web services don't have an I of any type, CL or otherwise	[00:12]
kakobrekla	yeah	[00:13]
kakobrekla	more sites could be lik https://cmd.fm	[00:13]
nubbins`	fun	[00:13]
kakobrekla	anyone wants to do bitbet console version :)	[00:14]
pankkake	NOPE: http://i.imgur.com/x6fW07R.png	[00:14]
kakobrekla	stop browsing with a potato	[00:15]
pankkake	kakobrekla: well I do write CLI interfaces to talk to websites	[00:15]
pankkake	especially the bad ones	[00:15]
kakobrekla	:D	[00:15]
kakobrekla	i think it would be better if its inbrowser faked cli	[00:15]
nubbins`	http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/01/24/1838241/fsfs-richard-stallman-calls-llvm-a-terrible-setback	[00:15]
ozbot	FSF's Richard Stallman Calls LLVM a 'Terrible Setback' - Slashdot	[00:15]
pankkake	no, UNIX style applications are awesome	[00:16]
pankkake	http://www.beeeeer.org/ now this is a good website design	[00:16]
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KRS1	.bait	[00:17]
ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m520b5Yt4l1r64vmyo1_500.jpg	[00:17]
*	jspiros loves CLI and TUI apps	[00:18]
pankkake	TUI?	[00:18]
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pizzaman1337	touch ui?	[00:18]
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pankkake	ew	[00:19]
jspiros	pankkake: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text-based_user_interface	[00:19]
pankkake	oh :)	[00:19]
nubbins`	at my last job, all the front-line staffed used TUI	[00:19]
nubbins`	*staff	[00:19]
nubbins`	big clunky RPG IV programs	[00:19]
nubbins`	developed in the 80s	[00:19]
jspiros	I am in the same position as pankkake, I am tired of webdev and wish people would pay me to write CLI/TUI apps	[00:20]
nubbins`	"hit F12... now C... now 3... Tab twice... F2 that..."	[00:20]
jspiros	though I would be happy writing GUI apps too, for desktops; I'm just tired of mobile or web as the primary options	[00:20]
jspiros	nubbins`: delicious	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	fun fact : most mpex brokers are cli.	[00:21]
nubbins`	web is the worst fucking medium to write for	[00:21]
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jspiros	I think the web is fine for what it was originally designed for; hacking desktop-style UIs into it is when things started to go wrong	[00:22]
nubbins`	how many mpex brokers are there, anyway?	[00:22]
nubbins`	jspiros, +1	[00:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.46863852 = 6.0923 BTC [-] {5}	[00:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 68 @ 0.45532202 = 30.9619 BTC [-] {14}	[00:25]
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nubbins`	http://yro.slashdot.org/story/14/01/24/0425256/court-says-craigslist-sperm-donor-must-pay-child-support	[00:26]
ozbot	Court Says Craigslist Sperm Donor Must Pay Child Support - Slashdot	[00:26]
jurov	nubbins`: i'm afraid all others went into hiding or out of business	[00:26]
nubbins`	TL, DR: a doctor didn't collect the sperm	[00:26]
nubbins`	but how was the sperm collected, you ask?	[00:26]
nubbins`	"...while agreeing to donate sperm in a plastic cup to Schreiner and Angela Bauer..."	[00:27]
nubbins`	i can see the craigslist ad now	[00:27]
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nubbins`	"We are two hot lesbians who are looking for a man to visit our house and cum into a red Solo cup"	[00:27]
KRS1	.bait	[00:27]
ozbot	http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4warmCvet1r17ko6o1_500.jpg	[00:27]
pankkake	.bait	[00:28]
ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5uzskzfbV1r9mvn7o1_500.jpg	[00:28]
pankkake	with all these stories I'm afraid of where my sperm goes	[00:28]
nubbins`	further food for thought: it's the state, not the women, who instigated this process	[00:29]
deadweasel	mircea_popescu: linkrot got you down? https://medium.com/the-magazine/ff97b5f36be8	[00:29]
nubbins`	from what i can gather, the two moms got on welfare and the state wants the cup-cummer to repay $6k worth of welfare cheques	[00:29]
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pankkake	yes, but the mom shouldn't have declared a father	[00:30]
nubbins`	she probably had to in order to collect welfare	[00:31]
nubbins`	"there is no father" "where's the letter from your doctor?"	[00:31]
nubbins`	anyway, gotta run	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	" A recent Harvard study found that 49 percent of links in Supreme Court opinions are now dead, and 70 percent of links in journals, including the Harvard Law Review, are dead too."	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	for crying out loud	[00:32]
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mircea_popescu	on the positive side, trilema > the scotus, culturally speaking.	[00:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 900 @ 0.0010015 = 0.9014 BTC [-]	[00:33]
jurov	links to polimedia.us/trilema aren't dead?	[00:33]
KRS1	as long as the bait keeps coming	[00:33]
KRS1	yeah what happened to dtng on polimedia.us? There were great pics there	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	jurov no ? are they ?	[00:33]
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jurov	just asking. they are not	[00:34]
Apocalyptic	btw polimedia.us now redirects to MPex directly	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	yeah, i got tired of "sorry, no, not taking clients, no, srsly."	[00:35]
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benkay	this is why bitcoin is going to break the welfare state	[00:37]
benkay	you cannot come to me and say "this child is yours and we're going to garnish your wages" for you cannot garnish my bitcoin earnings.	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	a fine example, yes.	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	"but 75% of the 200 ppl on derptalk voted!!!"	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	"yeah well... bully for them"	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	and that's that.	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	soon enough feeding two idiot women who think they're lesbians as if that's something to be is too expensive,	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	and so either find a job or get over yourself.	[00:39]
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Apocalyptic	.d	[00:46]
ozbot	2193847870.17428 \| Next Diff in 1957 blocks \| Estimated Change: 8.5723% in 12d 9h 54m 37s	[00:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9715 @ 0.00099424 = 9.659 BTC [-]	[00:47]
benkay	http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2014/01/young-pranksters-skewed-landmark-sexuality-study	[00:48]
ozbot	Young 'pranksters' skewed landmark sexuality study \| Cornell Chronicle	[00:48]
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mircea_popescu	lol	[00:59]
benkay	man	[01:01]
benkay	Diablo-D3 do you just show up in here, read the last five lines and start typing?	[01:01]
benkay	n, where n is insufficient to derive context?	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	"there's nowehere nearly as many gay people as the gay political party would have you believe". shocking!	[01:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.0009951 = 10.2495 BTC [+]	[01:05]
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benkay	implying it's not?	[01:08]
benkay	so?	[01:09]
pankkake	isn't the republican party full of guys getting their dicks sucked by men in public toilets or something?	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	well in this context, by "gay political party" i simply meant the bunch of despicable faggots that are going "we are opressed please give us free shit out of the public tax chest"	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	like the niggers, exactly, just with a different story.	[01:10]
KRS1	nah nigga	[01:11]
KRS1	gay nigger garbage man	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	that could be a sitcom	[01:12]
KRS1	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7faRubyT_k	[01:12]
ozbot	Faggot Bruce - Cockstar - YouTube	[01:12]
KRS1	yes sitcom perfect	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	there's this one guy who's reasonably sane. he works as a garbage truck driver. everyone thinks he's gay and black, for some reason.	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	and everyone's life is constantly going to shit.	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	he's sort-of the straight man of the show	[01:13]
KRS1	my god this rapper has to be a joke	[01:13]
KRS1	i would uninstall myself, deficate and die if i got my ass kicked and raped by a gangster ass faggot	[01:13]
pankkake	yeah this is bad	[01:14]
KRS1	gotta be a joke	[01:14]
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Renuxes_	Hello! Fundraising for my mother to fight cancer. I accept bitcoins. Details: http://www.gofundme.com/5wb6js	[01:16]
pankkake	"heavy metal style" lol	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	Renuxes_ are you being funny or lame ?	[01:17]
pankkake	listen to gorgoroth for non faggy gay metal!	[01:17]
kakobrekla	Renuxes_ ipo on havelock?	[01:17]
Namworld	Seriously, someone take a club with protuding nails and insert it up deep in Bitstamp's ass. I don't want to fly over to do it myself.	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	Namworld make a gofundme page ?	[01:20]
kakobrekla	you know someone like me could take down bitstamp quite simply	[01:21]
kakobrekla	i know where their server is and they only do daily local msql dumps	[01:21]
kakobrekla	so there you have it.	[01:21]
kakobrekla	take the server or just nuke hdd.	[01:21]
Namworld	Gofundme page: "Help me insert objects with protuding rusted metal spike in orifices"	[01:22]
jurov	kakobrekla what if someone really throws molotow to bitstamp dc and they'll imply you?	[01:22]
Namworld	What?	[01:22]
Namworld	They have no backups? How would you even know?	[01:23]
kakobrekla	yeah well i will imply you	[01:23]
jurov	i don't know where the dc is, you said you did	[01:23]
kakobrekla	well as it happens i know	[01:23]
kakobrekla	yeah but i told you	[01:23]
jurov	well, now you are complicit anyway	[01:23]
kakobrekla	mhm	[01:24]
Namworld	Bitstamp wants dox with so much resolution they fit on 2 pages	[01:24]
Apocalyptic	heh	[01:25]
pankkake	enhance!	[01:25]
Namworld	I only have a 3.2 mp camera	[01:25]
Apocalyptic	they want your miners' receipt too and pic of you with them if you withdraw > 100k and claim you mined it	[01:25]
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Namworld	They might be a bit overboard there	[01:26]
jurov	Apocalyptic and shoe on the head?	[01:26]
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Apocalyptic	jurov, nah they missed that somehow	[01:26]
Namworld	Do they want to do a cavity search too to make sure I'm not hiding and going to buy drugs from myself?	[01:26]
Apocalyptic	Namworld, i've recently received the requirements to open a corporate account with them	[01:27]
Apocalyptic	they're clearly overdoing the AML/KYC thing	[01:27]
*	jurov contemplates hacking their frontpage to instruct users to do self cavity search	[01:27]
jurov	and i thought bitcoin-central went overboard, but it was actually better than this	[01:30]
blg	lmao	[01:30]
blg	@	[01:30]
blg	self cavity search	[01:30]
kakobrekla	yeah, thanks for otc.	[01:31]
Namworld	It would be easier to convince an NSA agent to just bring a suitcase of money to an unnamed individual in the countryside in a region where terrorists are known to hide than to AML/KYC with Bitstamp?	[01:31]
blg	arent there any criminal countries left where you can open a bank account no questions asked and run a bitcoin business with it	[01:32]
jurov	vatican?	[01:32]
blg	i was thinking eastern europe or middle east or south america	[01:33]
mircea_popescu	they want your miners' receipt too and pic of you with them if you withdraw > 100k and claim you mined it << because who asked them ?	[01:33]
Apocalyptic	mircea_popescu, no idea	[01:33]
jurov	eastern europe? pfffft, we have almost no local banks	[01:33]
jurov	all are subsidiaries of western-eurpoean banks	[01:34]
Apocalyptic	i think they freely decided to do so	[01:34]
Namworld	It's completly serious too. They'll ask for it.	[01:34]
blg	damn	[01:34]
jurov	and they set the standards	[01:34]
blg	i didnt know that jurov	[01:34]
Namworld	Bitstamp must actually be USG funded.	[01:34]
pankkake	wow, I seriously thought you were joking	[01:34]
jurov	lol, so usg gave a tesla to nejc?	[01:34]
Apocalyptic	^	[01:35]
blg	USG =? US gov?	[01:35]
Apocalyptic	or usagi	[01:35]
jurov	us govt	[01:35]
blg	bitstamp is a slovenian bank	[01:35]
blg	but a "uk" company	[01:35]
jurov	no, they moved to uk	[01:35]
blg	the bank is still in slovenia	[01:36]
blg	they are just incorporated in the UK	[01:36]
jurov	they still send sepa transfers from slovenia? iirc i got the last one from the uk	[01:36]
blg	i could be completely wrong	[01:36]
blg	but when i was looking up their banking info on doing incoming wires	[01:36]
blg	it was a slovenian bank	[01:36]
Apocalyptic	jurov, well they received their SEPAs in the slovenian one	[01:36]
Apocalyptic	*receive	[01:36]
jurov	ok	[01:36]
jurov	blg, to be fair, you can maybe use estonian banks	[01:37]
jurov	russians do, but cyprus-style crackdown is imminent	[01:37]
jurov	http://bigstory.ap.org/article/new-euro-member-latvia-brings-dirty-money-headache ah no it was latvia actually	[01:39]
ozbot	New euro member Latvia brings dirty money headache	[01:39]
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jurov	afaik best is to create offshore corp and move money through it	[01:42]
jurov	i haven't needed that yet myself because no regulator figured bitcoins out here, but maybe next year	[01:43]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 95 @ 0.00308898 = 0.2935 BTC [+]	[01:54]
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Neil	"Estimated BTC Transacted 0.00144397 BTC" That's just too funny	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	yeah lol	[02:06]
mircea_popescu	only 99.99999% off	[02:06]
nubbins`	going back a bit here	[02:11]
nubbins`	Diablo-D3: it's the two moms making the kid suffer because they're fucking losers that need to be shot	[02:11]
nubbins`	aaaand i'm gone again	[02:12]
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truffles	booo	[02:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 12 @ 0.04923333 = 0.5908 BTC [-] {2}	[02:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16462 @ 0.00099591 = 16.3947 BTC [+]	[02:22]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.04999996 = 0.35 BTC [+]	[02:30]
benkay	;;later tell nubbins && Diablo-D3 also the state making the kid suffer under retarded fascist rules. if there hadn't been two decades of 'his sperm made this child ergo he is financially responsible for child support' caselaw driven by a certain political groups' takeover of the us judicial and pop morality systems it might be a different story	[02:32]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[02:32]
truffles	just read about that story heh	[02:33]
benkay	'but what about the poor children whose single mothers fall on hard times' the socialists whine	[02:33]
benkay	well state allocation of capital is a crime against sensible anything	[02:33]
benkay	and state allocation of capital to preserve human life is just as criminal	[02:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4391 @ 0.00100361 = 4.4069 BTC [+]	[02:34]
benkay	more people need to die.	[02:34]
benkay	life is not in and of itself valuable.	[02:34]
truffles	well i think it helps maintain order	[02:37]
truffles	the sums distributed might not be reasonable though	[02:37]
benkay	order would be more well maintained if people had to be orderly in order to eat.	[02:42]
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asciilifeform	http://cryptome.org/2014/01/internet-foxes-hens.htm	[02:52]
benkay	man it'd be great to pop the davos comms wide open	[02:53]
benkay	s/great/amusing	[02:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00457276 = 0.9146 BTC [-] {17}	[02:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00099908 = 9.1915 BTC [-]	[02:57]
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mircea_popescu	the davos coms are probably comparatively boring	[03:15]
benkay	who would you like to eavesdrop on, mircea_popescu?	[03:17]
mircea_popescu	well now that i consider it... turns out nobody.	[03:18]
benkay	har	[03:18]
truffles	that facebook dude	[03:18]
truffles	he doesnt care for privacy anyways	[03:20]
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mircea_popescu	http://25.media.tumblr.com/2712e642516efb0dde094376d5809825/tumblr_mmkddagtyj1ru15g3o1_1280.jpg	[03:25]
truffles	strip show??	[03:32]
truffles	everyone else is wearing too much	[03:32]
mircea_popescu	weird 1970s eastern europe dress for the crowd	[03:33]
truffles	the women look pissed heh	[03:34]
benkay	http://dis.4chan.org/read/sjis/1281126214/	[03:38]
ozbot	4chan BBS - ascii dick	[03:38]
benkay	plural, ozbot.	[03:39]
benkay	plural, 4chan.	[03:39]
truffles	la la la didnt click	[03:39]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18750 @ 0.00099908 = 18.7328 BTC [-]	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361852.0	[04:07]
ozbot	Problem with BOURSE forced buyback on Cryptostocks	[04:07]
mircea_popescu	pretty lulzy shit	[04:07]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20488 @ 0.00099591 = 20.4042 BTC [-]	[04:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1512 @ 0.00099583 = 1.5057 BTC [-]	[04:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.44989978 = 0.8998 BTC [-]	[04:15]
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mircea_popescu	The leader of the Oneida Indian Nation is going to the United Nations today to complain about the name of the Washington Redskins football team.	[04:25]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.45 = 2.25 BTC [+]	[04:32]
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Duffer1	he mad	[04:35]
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mircea_popescu	"A newly-uncovered and monumental calculating error in official US government climate data shows beyond doubt that climate scientists unjustifiably added on a whopping one degree of phantom warming to the official "raw" temperature record."	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	derp.	[04:40]
Apocalyptic	^	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	you know, fucktarded politicos & bureaucrats posing as scientists.	[04:41]
the20year2	one celcius or farenheight?	[04:41]
the20year2	Wasn't the average warming only like 1.4c?	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	it's not just that their bs is so politically transparent. it's that they can't even sit down do the math properly.	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	the20year2 there's no difference is there.	[04:41]
the20year2	and that's what the 'evil conspiracy theorists' have been saying for 4 years, and the media painted them as idiots and crazy	[04:42]
the20year2	I've had some somewhat smart people calling me names because I've stated more than once that a 100 year observation window isn't enough to build climate models	[04:42]
mircea_popescu	especially if what you do is you take that window, extrapolate a history based on it, and then pretend like the new dataset is usable to extrapolate a future evolution.	[04:43]
the20year2	And that's what I've said, and been called a idiot more times than I'd like to think about	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/01/19/just-hit-the-noaa-motherlode/	[04:44]
ozbot	Just Hit The NOAA Motherlode \| Real Science	[04:44]
the20year2	yeah , that's what i was reading	[04:44]
benkay	har nobody i know takes it seriously any more	[04:44]
benkay	the trick is not to argue with them but to mock them for attempting to model the unmodelable	[04:44]
the20year2	really? I run into quite a few people who do, and the -50 degrees this next week are proof	[04:45]
benkay	and then get real serious about numbers of variables and extrapolations and observation windows briefly before saying 'but this is all esoteric shit that bogs one down in details when the more important point is that they cannot possibly say what they say with any justification'	[04:45]
chetty	people may not take it seriously, but you still can't buy a decent lightbulb	[04:45]
the20year2	The one weather service says with windchill it will be -79c	[04:45]
kakobrekla	i knew it was a scam in 2003 or so, is one of the reasons didnt get my degree, not talking bout c or f.	[04:45]
benkay	the20year2: you also live in ohio, shit fuck idiot capital ville of nowhere america	[04:46]
the20year2	Your point?	[04:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10250 @ 0.0010023 = 10.2736 BTC [+] {2}	[04:46]
benkay	higher density of people lacking faculties	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	well possibly you run into more retards there.	[04:46]
the20year2	too few people have planned for this crap, i'm curious what the death toll will be	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	hopefully it will be record high.	[04:46]
the20year2	I've been saying for 4 years for people to get emergency heaters, and only one person I know went out and di it	[04:47]
benkay	"my friend reminds me that people like Danny, who can tell a good story, fervently and in the right plutocratic echelons, can be very useful when starting a business" http://blog.podsnap.com/startup-of-darkness.html	[04:47]
the20year2	If you look at Ohio's weather, since the mid-late 1800s, we've had a bad winter every 30 years or so, and we've been due for a bad one for like 2years	[04:47]
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benkay	sadly, the technical gentleman disregards all of the other metrics that might be interesting	[04:47]
benkay	recovery times	[04:47]
the20year2	We had one in '78 and the drifts were 4 meters high	[04:47]
benkay	cost per surgeon	[04:47]
the20year2	they tried to mobilize the national guard but they couldn't even assemble	[04:47]
mircea_popescu	shoelace tying problem ?	[04:48]
Apocalyptic	hum primecoin block explorer cannot even afford their own domain it seems	[04:48]
the20year2	Ouch	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	so what happens to the average us home, which was build on the cheap out of shoddy materials, is currently foreclosed and thus empty, and the winter hits hard ?	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	i guess banks take more writedowns right ?	[04:48]
the20year2	Depends if the bank winterized it	[04:49]
kakobrekla	Apocalyptic you can bribe blockr.io guys to add it there	[04:49]
the20year2	There's a $100 process that will make the property weather just fine	[04:49]
mircea_popescu	yeah, because they on average did like 8% iirc.	[04:49]
Apocalyptic	kakobrekla, i have no interest to do so	[04:49]
kakobrekla	just sayin	[04:49]
the20year2	But, of course, not all properties will be winterized	[04:49]
the20year2	So, come spring anyone looking at them will get a nasty surprise of broken pipes throughout	[04:49]
benkay	plough it under.	[04:49]
benkay	all of it.	[04:49]
mircea_popescu	mr dimon might have to bring back some of those 20mn to help jpm make it through spring.	[04:50]
the20year2	Some banks will force winterization - they hire people to watch homes, when someone moves out they get in and winterize it	[04:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.49055863 = 8.3395 BTC [+] {5}	[04:50]
the20year2	BOA is terrible about it, wells fargo is quite good	[04:50]
benkay	let the robots have the center of the country	[04:50]
benkay	have/till	[04:50]
benkay	while the tyrant's agricultural policies hasten the next dust bowl.	[04:51]
benkay	"let the water table drain!" say the bureaucrats. "let the states fight over what scraps of water remain."	[04:52]
the20year2	What state? California?	[04:52]
benkay	everything fed by the colorado river	[04:52]
benkay	all states sitting atop the depleting aquifers	[04:53]
benkay	all states fed by unrenewing glaciers	[04:53]
mircea_popescu	what, it rains in the us doesn't it ?	[05:01]
mircea_popescu	why'd aquifers deplete	[05:01]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile, piigs banks look set for an aditional... 300 to 500 billions in writeoffs.	[05:08]
the20year2	farmland and large cities taking up more water	[05:10]
mircea_popescu	2014 has a good shot at being the first zero gdp year on record. both the us and the eu look set to write off in financials at leeast as much if not more than what the economy produces.	[05:10]
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mircea_popescu	not zero gdp growth. zero gdp at all. -100% gdp drop.	[05:10]
the20year2	what's that based on?	[05:11]
the20year2	(news source?)	[05:11]
mircea_popescu	draghi's latest statements precipitated it, but otherwise general behaviour of everyone involved.	[05:11]
mircea_popescu	exactly how bad bank assets are being the most closely guarded secret atm.	[05:11]
the20year2	yeah	[05:12]
the20year2	I do freelance work for most of the major lenders, and get to see all their vacant properties or properties that are in default, but they don't want to process	[05:12]
mircea_popescu	http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/13/us-eurozone-banks-idUSBRE99C03Y20131013	[05:12]
ozbot	Europe prepares to come clean on hidden bank losses	[05:12]
the20year2	ah	[05:13]
the20year2	230b between spain and italy?	[05:13]
mircea_popescu	things haven't improved since then. au contraire.	[05:13]
the20year2	dang	[05:13]
mircea_popescu	they retraced.	[05:13]
mircea_popescu	that was oct.	[05:13]
Apocalyptic	Europe prepares to come clean on hidden bank losses // brace yourself	[05:14]
the20year2	I've been so curious as to what's been going on with the PIGS, here in the US the news disappeared	[05:14]
the20year2	it went from utter collapse to....nothing	[05:14]
mircea_popescu	the news on the german gold owed by the us also disappeared.	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	tit for tat.	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	the slobbering fat dork and the lanky acneic geek can be best friends	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	just as soon as they agree not to point out the various unflattering bits. and so what if no girls are interested ?	[05:16]
the20year2	i've seen more about the german gold than spanish and itailian banks	[05:16]
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mircea_popescu	you read the eu press ? :)	[05:16]
mircea_popescu	there;s plenty about the piigs in french etc.	[05:16]
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the20year2	Sadly, no	[05:17]
asciilifeform	broken pipes won't be a problem. the copper's been 'harvested.'	[05:20]
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nubbins`	"This time around, the task of cleaning up banks should not be quite as daunting as five years ago because shareholders, bondholders and wealthy depositors can expect to take some of the losses, as happened in the bailout of Cyprus in March."	[05:25]
nubbins`	:0	[05:26]
Apocalyptic	heh	[05:27]
nubbins`	haircuts for all!	[05:28]
the20year2	joy	[05:28]
the20year2	bitcoin!	[05:28]
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truffles	busy nubbins?	[05:34]
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Apocalyptic	truffles, game ?	[05:35]
truffles	i only have so much juice in me	[05:37]
truffles	dont drain meeeee	[05:37]
truffles	in 30 mins sure	[05:37]
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kakobrekla	bitcoin!	[05:43]
kakobrekla	well, haircuts are common in btc as well	[05:43]
kakobrekla	just look around	[05:43]
asciilifeform	the btc equivalent is when someone hangs you upside-down and connects you to a mains socket, to extract your keys.	[05:44]
kakobrekla	one of them	[05:44]
Apocalyptic	not if you don't invest them and hold them securely kako	[05:45]
kakobrekla	yes or hold cash in your own safe box	[05:46]
kakobrekla	how many people do one or the other	[05:46]
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pankkake	http://www.coindesk.com/nobel-laureate-thinks-bitcoin-amazing-bubble/ as long as it's amazing	[05:55]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[05:55]
wao-ender	amaze	[05:55]
wao-ender	bitcoin should have it's kind of nobel prizes.	[05:56]
wao-ender	bitcoin awards.	[05:56]
Duffer1	only if #B-A gets to pick the winner	[05:56]
truffles	like darwin awards?	[05:56]
mircea_popescu	nubbins meanwhile the lift of s.mpoe earlier this week from 80s to 100s quietly added about 200 million worth of new wealth to the savvier counterparts to those investors buying... all the other scams.	[05:57]
truffles	Apocalyptic ready?	[05:58]
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Apocalyptic	yes truffles	[05:58]
truffles	k	[05:58]
Apocalyptic	pankkake, he has an interesting evocating name	[05:59]
Apocalyptic	he be shilling	[05:59]
truffles	i dont see u	[05:59]
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benkay	mmm mpoe	[06:01]
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truffles	walked into that 1	[06:08]
Apocalyptic	:)	[06:08]
TATtothemoon	http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/09/testing-shillers-nobel-prize-against-the-bitcoin-bubble/	[06:08]
ozbot	Testing Shiller's Nobel Prize Against The Bitcoin Bubble - Forbes	[06:08]
TATtothemoon	indirectly calls mpex options useless	[06:09]
mircea_popescu	dude the forum has reached a singularity by now.	[06:09]
mircea_popescu	there's a bunch of muppets in mpoe thread screaming about how mpex is "designed to make money from noobs"	[06:09]
TATtothemoon	I can't even read the forum anymore	[06:09]
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mircea_popescu	and a bunch of muppets in all the noob-scam threads congratulating them on their superprofessional buznizz skillzorz	[06:09]
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TATtothemoon	I start to want to correct people and then I'm like why bother anymore...	[06:10]
mircea_popescu	i've never before seen people genuinely praise shit and despise steak, out of what seems like their own personal volition and thought process	[06:10]
TATtothemoon	and my ignore list is now useless too	[06:10]
mircea_popescu	no but i mean... it's 100% opposite. not like... wrong. completely motherfucking backwards.	[06:10]
pankkake	bizarro forum?	[06:11]
jborkl	Sup noobs	[06:11]
TATtothemoon	its shill zone	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	i have no idea.	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	this may be an explanation, basically, buncha shills simply making a deliberate effort to switch terminology around.	[06:11]
TATtothemoon	posts aren't even real anymore	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	that'd have to mean the forum is mostly not read by noobs anymore.	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	just shills shilling to shills.	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	sorta like a bitcoin 4chan of shilling.	[06:12]
TATtothemoon	skimming the occassional noob	[06:12]
TATtothemoon	this is a signal	[06:12]
TATtothemoon	bitcoin has bottomed out	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	it is, but what it signals is collapse	[06:12]
jborkl	I don't know , they are pretty dumb shills if that is the case	[06:12]
TATtothemoon	need lifeblood	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	not sure of what exactly, but it is a strong top signal	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	jborkl i think shills have to be pretty dumb. if they were smart they'd find more productive stuff to do neh ?	[06:12]
jborkl	True	[06:13]
jborkl	Excellent point	[06:13]
TATtothemoon	scam training ground	[06:13]
jborkl	Moon coin	[06:13]
jborkl	? Tat	[06:13]
truffles	gg	[06:14]
TATtothemoon	?	[06:14]
jborkl	Oh to the moon is the motto of the altcoin of the week	[06:15]
TATtothemoon	its like fly choking fly!	[06:15]
mircea_popescu	i'm half considering hiring an indian outsourcer and putting 2-3-5k indian kids on spamming all the scam threads just for lulz.	[06:15]
TATtothemoon	damn autocorrext	[06:15]
mircea_popescu	see the panic on the faces of the various would be "entrepreneurs" once they get flooded to shit.	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	sadly there's no way i could in good conscience justify the expense to shareholders.	[06:16]
TATtothemoon	chikun *	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	sucks being a ceo ;/	[06:16]
TATtothemoon	IPO the idea	[06:16]
TATtothemoon	haven't u learnt?	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	well... there's nothing in the idea, that's what they're doing already, amateurly, or on shoestring budgets.	[06:17]
mircea_popescu	the only idea is that i have a larger pile of money than your mom has a pile of used condoms.	[06:17]
mircea_popescu	not much there.	[06:17]
TATtothemoon	the new forum rules might just kill it	[06:18]
mircea_popescu	it'd actually be a sad twist on bitcoin if that's what it'd end up doing : burn elec to mine, burn btc to spam a forum... too virtual.	[06:18]
Mats_cd03	anyone ever use radare2?	[06:18]
mircea_popescu	Mats_cd03 nope	[06:18]
jborkl	What new rules Tat?	[06:18]
TATtothemoon	unmitigated sock accounts now	[06:19]
Duffer1	no more noob yard	[06:19]
mircea_popescu	jborkl o, it's a riot. no more noobzone, so all the shills can make socks with lower cost	[06:19]
TATtothemoon	can also pay to unban	[06:19]
mircea_popescu	and ip bans (pay to unban)	[06:19]
jborkl	Oh, so they mos needed more money eh	[06:19]
TATtothemoon	need ha	[06:20]
jborkl	I noticed all these accounts with 5 posts or 3 posts, now it makes sense	[06:21]
jborkl	Oh and usagi made a thread, only a 90% loss and it worked out well	[06:21]
mircea_popescu	yeah pretty much everyone who read that came here to wtf	[06:21]
truffles	misclick?	[06:21]
mircea_popescu	you're like the 5th. it is teh wtf of all time	[06:22]
TATtothemoon	he says he learned a lot	[06:22]
TATtothemoon	Usagi learned so much he lapped himself into stupidity again	[06:22]
jborkl	Yeah, I shook my head ablnd did a desk faceplant	[06:22]
truffles	gg	[06:22]
Apocalyptic	gg, too bad for the free rook	[06:23]
truffles	im on a spiral	[06:23]
jborkl	Learning by losing other peoples money for the 9th time is really rough guys	[06:23]
TATtothemoon	I like all these Davis tidbits of dudes telling dudes not to buy bitcoin	[06:23]
TATtothemoon	davos	[06:23]
jborkl	But I learned so much, this time I have it right.	[06:24]
TATtothemoon	such care for their brothers	[06:24]
Apocalyptic	Usagi learned so much he lapped himself into stupidity again // dude is still around ?	[06:24]
TATtothemoon	resurfaced today	[06:25]
TATtothemoon	http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-shiller-bitcoin-2014-1	[06:25]
ozbot	Robert Shiller Bitcoin - Business Insider	[06:25]
jborkl	The mpex is the biggest scam thread is a wtf, isn't it the only thing in that thread that is not a scam	[06:25]
TATtothemoon	best surname ever	[06:25]
Apocalyptic	^	[06:26]
jborkl	Robert Schiller? That is awesome shill name	[06:26]
Apocalyptic	before you joined	[06:26]
Apocalyptic	pankkake, he has an interesting evocating name	[06:26]
Apocalyptic	he be shilling	[06:26]
quellhorst	lal	[06:26]
quellhorst	can anyone give me some shillings?	[06:27]
TATtothemoon	a bloodline of shills	[06:27]
quellhorst	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shilling	[06:27]
ozbot	Shilling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[06:27]
TATtothemoon	too bad surnames don't have meaning anymore	[06:27]
TATtothemoon	would be cool punishment	[06:28]
TATtothemoon	judge says sorry Usagi younew surname is scamsteroni	[06:28]
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mircea_popescu	jajajaj	[06:30]
mircea_popescu	i actually lol'd over scamsteroni	[06:30]
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mircea_popescu	could be Bob S. McArony	[06:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60092 @ 0.00099705 = 59.9147 BTC [-] {4}	[06:33]
TATtothemoon	Says Shiller: "It is a bubble, there is no question about it. ... It's just an amazing example of a bubble."	[06:34]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[06:34]
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mircea_popescu	"the fact that if it's not i'm out of a job, permanently, has no impact on my foregoing opinion"	[06:35]
TATtothemoon	like these things are simply proclaimed	[06:35]
TATtothemoon	and I like its bitcoin itself that is a bubble	[06:35]
TATtothemoon	is there a bubblecoin yet?	[06:36]
mircea_popescu	anyway. the bubble will be happening in the summer, once these schmucks capitulate, and i'll be fighting against five digit madness	[06:36]
TATtothemoon	agreed	[06:36]
mircea_popescu	same experts, saying stupid shit, just so happens to be opposite of a few months ago.	[06:36]
mircea_popescu	infinite analyst hitpoints.	[06:37]
TATtothemoon	tho I haven't come to terms with predicting five digits	[06:37]
TATtothemoon	I can rationalize maybe 3400 this year	[06:37]
TATtothemoon	but rationality, bitcoin...	[06:38]
mircea_popescu	yes well, bubbles aren't required to make sense.	[06:38]
mircea_popescu	they're only required to make waves	[06:38]
TATtothemoon	can someone eli5, how does one become a Core developer for Bitcoin? -reddite	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	that's easy. they just go to a lot of conferences and say stupidshit.	[06:42]
TATtothemoon	and reinvent the jetpack	[06:42]
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jborkl	There is a conference here, I actually thought about going until I found out it was $275 and no one I had ever heard of- although they say they are bitcoin experts	[06:48]
jborkl	I came to my senses and slapped myself a couple timea	[06:49]
jborkl	Times	[06:49]
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TATtothemoon	I left the state instead :)	[06:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.04990001 = 0.1497 BTC [-]	[06:52]
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TATtothemoon	"Some HSBC customers have been prevented from withdrawing large amounts of cash because they could not provide evidence of why they wanted it, the BBC has learnt."	[06:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 109 @ 0.00093 = 0.1014 BTC [+]	[07:04]
mircea_popescu	lmao	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	evidence of why you want your own money	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	"it's mine"	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	The bank said it did not have to tell him. "As this was not a change to the Terms and Conditions of your bank account, we had no need to pre-notify customers of the change," HSBC wrote.	[07:08]
mircea_popescu	derp. how much money of your own money you can have is not part of the terms.	[07:08]
mircea_popescu	dude i should run mpex like that, srlsy.	[07:08]
TATtothemoon	as a service	[07:09]
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TATtothemoon	sorry you can't withdraw 100btc for that Tesla	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	course "large" cash withdrawals actually means pocket change	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	a large cash withdrawal is more than what'd be needed to pay for the most expensive dwelling.	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	that'd be about 5 to 10 million or so.	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	5k is like... grocery money.	[07:10]
TATtothemoon	pay your mom back money	[07:11]
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TATtothemoon	Hancock has been shady for so long so blatantly why does anyone let them have any money at all?	[07:12]
mircea_popescu	anyway, some war gotta break out soon somehwere.	[07:12]
mircea_popescu	it's just about there	[07:12]
TATtothemoon	hsbc not Hancock...	[07:12]
TATtothemoon	"Despite the problems of becoming a social outcast, which I described at last year's World Economic Forum, I have been lucky enough to get the chance to attend the conference again."	[07:13]
TATtothemoon	http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72502000/jpg/_72502282_mugshot.jpg	[07:14]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[14:46]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading	[14:46]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	.d	[14:48]
ozbot	2193847870.17428 \| Next Diff in 1864 blocks \| Estimated Change: 8.6180% in 11d 19h 49m 52s	[14:48]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3000 @ 0.00311215 = 9.3365 BTC [+] {11}	[15:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00313913 = 0.6278 BTC [+] {2}	[15:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21450 @ 0.00100665 = 21.5926 BTC [-] {2}	[15:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17771 @ 0.00100609 = 17.8792 BTC [-]	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	!t m x.eur	[15:17]
assbot	[MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.0016745 / 0.00167451 / 0.00169831 (1201 shares, 2.01 BTC), 7D: 0.00166612 / 0.0016776 / 0.00175 (2339 shares, 3.92 BTC), 30D: 0.0016245 / 0.00185475 / 0.00333333 (16189 shares, 30.03 BTC)	[15:17]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3190 @ 0.00313914 = 10.0139 BTC [+]	[15:24]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 100 @ 0.00413533 = 0.4135 BTC [-] {9}	[15:27]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.45200001 = 0.904 BTC [-] {2}	[15:29]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02849998 = 0.171 BTC [+]	[15:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02869995 = 0.3444 BTC [+] {2}	[15:31]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 13 @ 0.02897999 = 0.3767 BTC [+] {2}	[15:32]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 122 @ 0.00454794 = 0.5548 BTC [+] {4}	[16:02]
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jurov	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361852.msg4729286#msg4729286 let mpoe-pr (con)descend upon me	[16:15]
ozbot	Problem with BOURSE forced buyback on Cryptostocks	[16:15]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00446415 = 0.4464 BTC [-] {9}	[16:17]
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mircea_popescu	"The cofounder (forensick) left the company and told me he has not seen any bitcoins from the IPO and moreover was left with some outstanding debt by Markus Weiler (dotcoin)."	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	no srsly, you people keep doing this shit.	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	stop doing it. it is stupid.	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	everyone is like insane, feels this irresistible urge to shill for the first scammer that comes by with honeyed lips.	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	it's like virgin highschooler kids getting married at 17 to support some random ho.	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	jurov there you go.	[16:31]
jurov	you mean i'm shilling for forensick?	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	no.	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	i mean, take this guy. he becomes a cofounder right ?	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	why ?	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	well... cause someone was "being professional". herp.	[16:33]
jurov	yes, he appeared toward me as one	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	and then... his name is used there, right ?	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	and then... it all blows up, and it turns pout he was in fact no cofounder.	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	he was just... an idiot.	[16:33]
*	KRS1 Rumpled Foreskin.	[16:33]
KRS1	.bait	[16:34]
ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzknmv1XsH1qzkm8ro1_1280.jpg	[16:34]
jurov	yes, something like that.	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	with nothing better to do with his time, with no idea what a name is and how it works, with nothing at all.	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	i could name names of people doing exactly the same, with fake miners, with bs of all sorts. i won't.	[16:34]
KRS1	How elegant, artful..the fuck? Just give me some fucking porn, ozbot.	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	point remains, this is being done too fucking often.	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	stop thinking that words matter. someone calling you a cofounder and you're all tickled pink ?	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	stop enabling fraud.	[16:34]
KRS1	Some want to feel important, even if they are making the same buck.	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	this happens to be the definition of idiocy.	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	you are better off with two friends than with two hundred "friends" who mostly come by to steal things from your house and take bank loans with copies of your id they obtained while you weren't looking.	[16:36]
jurov	well, what would you do? ask for their contract comes to mind	[16:36]
jurov	(back in september)	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	jurov suppose one day you're walking down the street and some guy offers you a joint. do you take it or do you figure "hey, a fuckwit i never saw before is trying to get me drugged up" ?	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	i mean... this is really 9 yo stuff. do not go to the strip club with perfect strangers.	[16:37]
KRS1	Who owns this channel anyway? Can I be Potentate, Ombudsman, #bitcoin-assets	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	KRS1 no, you can not.	[16:37]
KRS1	Asst. Ombudsman?	[16:37]
KRS1	Co-Assistant.	[16:38]
jurov	honestly, it depends on my frame of mind. i can be incredibly stupid in exactly the wrong moment	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	so that's what i do. i don't deal with people i don't know. i test. i build histories. i check histories.	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	i review references.	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	what, some guy that has no wot, no presence, that i don't know suddenly has an idea ? suddenly can be a ceo ?	[16:39]
mircea_popescu	no, he cant.	[16:39]
mircea_popescu	look at neobee for an instructive example.	[16:39]
mircea_popescu	we're not equal, even if we can type the same strings in a box they still aren't the same strings. depends whose name signs on them. we're not equal, even if two people have "the same idea", in one head it's an idea, in another head it's nothing.	[16:40]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 43 @ 0.00444 = 0.1909 BTC [-]	[17:11]
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nubbins`	this joint, is it already lit?	[17:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 375 @ 0.00440001 = 1.65 BTC [-] {5}	[17:12]
jurov	it's nonstop, if a bit silent sometime	[17:16]
nubbins`	haha.	[17:16]
nubbins`	nice reply, altho i was responding to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2014#459344	[17:17]
jurov	heh that	[17:17]
jurov	mircea_popescu: you tell someone to build the history for you, then you just come and build, check, review, whatever	[17:18]
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jurov	i don't know even where to look for someone who could reliably do such service for me	[17:19]
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mircea_popescu	jurov this is true. you can practically either piggyback on me, piggyback on someone else, or else do it yourself.	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	when i bitch and whine that we need more ppl doing blogging well this is part of it. what are you to do ?	[17:21]
nubbins`	lrn2blog!	[17:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00100543 = 9.9538 BTC [-] {2}	[17:21]
nubbins`	man, this hsbc stuff is nuts	[17:21]
nubbins`	Mr Cotton says the staff refused to tell him how much he could have: "So I wrote out a few slips. I said, 'Can I have £5,000?' They said no. I said, 'Can I have £4,000?' They said no. And then I wrote one out for £3,000 and they said, 'OK, we'll give you that.' "	[17:22]
jurov	blogging... i tried to write something and it felt too stupid immediately the next day	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	course if mr cotton had said "either you fill this bag with money or else i come with my lawyer and you'll have to fill HIS bag on top of mine, and on your own account"	[17:22]
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mircea_popescu	that'd have resolved it.	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	jurov i don't mean you personally, at any point in this conversation, neither above (i was discussing the cofounder guy, whose responsibility it is whether he knows or not) nor here, it's not like you have to do due dilligence work if you have no experience, training or talent for it.	[17:24]
mircea_popescu	point remains tho, due dilligence does not go away. it is either done one way or the other, but it has to be done.	[17:24]
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nubbins`	well the question is why this isn't in court already	[17:25]
nubbins`	"The reason being we have an obligation to protect our customers, and to minimise the opportunity for financial crime. However, following feedback, we are immediately updating guidance to our customer facing staff to reiterate that it is not mandatory for customers to provide documentary evidence for large cash withdrawals, and on its own, failure to show evidence is not a reason to refuse a	[17:26]
nubbins`	withdrawal. We are writing to apologise to any customer who has been given incorrect information and inconvenienced."	[17:26]
nubbins`	well	[17:26]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` it's not in court because a) the court is a government subsidiary, and the government knows the bank is out of capital.	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	it'd be an awkward way to push its bankruptcy	[17:29]
nubbins`	nod	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	also because b) the law is so written so that the government and its subsidiaries are immune from law,	[17:29]
nubbins`	Mr Cotton has likely been widthdrawing #3k per day since that incident	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	and so no third party could in fact use the court of the government against the bank of the government.	[17:30]
nubbins`	i wonder when they'll tell him he can't anymore	[17:30]
nubbins`	also, i've decided that # is a suitable way to denote GBP on a US keyboard	[17:31]
nubbins`	http://i.giflike.com/zOArEQC_dg.gif	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	aww poor kid. what's he doing way over there ?	[17:36]
nubbins`	hahaha i have no idea	[17:37]
nubbins`	prolly tried to score a goal ;(	[17:37]
nubbins`	that's an NHL arena, btw	[17:38]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51899999 BTC [+]	[17:49]
nubbins`	"You are dropped penniless into a village in the middle of England in the year 1500. You maintain all your current knowledge. How would you make your way to the top?"	[17:50]
nubbins`	"Well I'm black. So I guess I wouldn't."	[17:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00100759 = 13.6025 BTC [+]	[17:59]
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nubbins`	"even Fuctapple can’t fuck up a browser to the degree it breaks the web." <-- quite the opposite, apple played a large part in turning webkit into the beauty it is today	[18:02]
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nubbins`	imagine, a browser with built-in dev tools.	[18:02]
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nubbins`	on-the-fly DOM editing, javascript console	[18:02]
mircea_popescu	"Well I'm black. So I guess I wouldn't." lmao	[18:07]
mircea_popescu	sure you would. they had black people in 1500 england.	[18:07]
nubbins`	at the top? :0	[18:07]
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nubbins`	another commenter wondered whether being strung up on a rope counted as being "at the top"	[18:07]
pankkake	lol	[18:08]
mircea_popescu	depends on your top, but there were rich merchants	[18:08]
mircea_popescu	heck, disraeli was jewish	[18:08]
mircea_popescu	you obviously couldn't have ended up the queen, as a black male.	[18:08]
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mircea_popescu	at any rate, othello was black.	[18:09]
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nubbins`	too true	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	also, "dark lady"	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	they had black hos	[18:09]
nubbins`	huh, england had a queen for almost half of the 1500s	[18:10]
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nubbins`	who knew!	[18:10]
nubbins`	thing about living in the new world is that there's less history to remember	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	:p	[18:10]
nubbins`	http://www.thetelegram.com/Business/2014-01-24/article-3587849/AG-points-out-low-uptake-in-cranberry-farm-acreage/1	[18:12]
ozbot	AG points out low uptake in cranberry farm acreage - Business - The Telegram	[18:12]
nubbins`	During the five-year program, the province failed to meet its own guidelines for recordkeeping by not always obtaining business plans before government funding was provided. In some cases, the province also failed to obtain complete financial information from farmers receiving funding.	[18:12]
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nubbins`	"Yeah, we don't have our business plan ready yet" "Fuck it, here's your grant!"	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	derp	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	and then jurov feels bad.	[18:14]
nubbins`	such feels	[18:14]
nubbins`	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=431207.0	[18:14]
ozbot	DISCO HITLER BABIES	[18:14]
nubbins`	the Goods subforum is fucked	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	lol	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	"I made a handful of these a few years ago. I currently can only find 2. I may have given the rest away or sold them, I cant remember. I'm asking $50 each for them shipped in the lower48 (at bitstamp rate)."	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	wait...	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	he can't remember what he did with the rest of the turds and wants me to pay 50 for the extant ones ?	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	fuck you dude, i can't remember what i did with all my 50s	[18:16]
nubbins`	heheh	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	have some chewed chewing gum	[18:16]
nubbins`	even if there were only two ever made, tho...	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	two 50s ?	[18:17]
nubbins`	nah, two hitler dolls	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	yeah, right. that's happening.	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	he has copywright on hitler and monopoly on plastic doll manufacturing.	[18:18]
nubbins`	there are a couple of guys, this Drahog fella and The Butter Zone, that sell the most random shit	[18:18]
nubbins`	some of it's neat tho	[18:18]
nubbins`	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=359006.0	[18:19]
ozbot	portraits, commissions, and original paintings by Maureen Gubia	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	neroporcamiseria.com ? lol	[18:19]
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nubbins`	hm, these are weird	[18:21]
pankkake	actually is racism something… new?	[18:21]
pankkake	was racism big, say, 2000 years ago?	[18:21]
nubbins`	lel	[18:21]
nubbins`	ever wonder why it had to be explicitly said that the good samaritan was good?	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	racism is new in the sense that the observation that people belong to different races is new	[18:22]
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mircea_popescu	only became cogent once transportation became possible.	[18:22]
nubbins`	racism was more localized in the past	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, it was ethnocentrism, like the way twop small towns hate each other's football team	[18:22]
nubbins`	er yeah	[18:22]
nubbins`	there's a word for that ;(	[18:22]
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mircea_popescu	xenophobia ? somewhat.	[18:23]
nubbins`	doesn't quite capture it tho, huh	[18:23]
nubbins`	http://oms-b.org/source_files/2.jpg	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	it comes from 5000 years of experience iwth the notion that "people yu don't know will likely rape you", something which comes full circle with the earlier discussion re cryptoscams.	[18:23]
nubbins`	and that itself stems from the animal instinct to fear the unknown	[18:24]
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nubbins`	not much different from a pet bird panicking when a new toy is placed in his cage	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	which, again, stems from sense.	[18:24]
pankkake	xenophobia is actually sane; it's people not in the WoT	[18:25]
nubbins`	ha	[18:25]
pankkake	and defiance towards nomads, too	[18:25]
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nubbins`	speaking of stems and animals	[18:26]
nubbins`	i suspect that i'll be receiving a copy of the codex seraphinianus for my birthday next week	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	why not the voynich manuscript	[18:27]
nubbins`	apparently amazon is out of stock	[18:27]
nubbins`	;p	[18:27]
nubbins`	this would actually be a fun way to make a zine	[18:27]
nubbins`	gibberish text and fantastical drawings	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	ultimate asshole thing to do : spy on what people get you for your bday	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	give them the same thing only better, on the spot.	[18:28]
nubbins`	hahaha	[18:28]
*	nubbins` quickly orders the deluxe edition	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	she gets you a pair of socks ? get her superluxury garter belts. exchange gifts	[18:28]
nubbins`	"oh, cool.... thanks... i actually got you a little gift too"	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	:D	[18:28]
nubbins`	"NBD tho"	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	yup. be all cool and w/e about it	[18:29]
nubbins`	"ah... the regular edition... cool"	[18:29]
nubbins`	rip out a page, roll it up and smoke it	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	:D	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	naaa	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	just put it on the shelt	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	shelf*	[18:29]
nubbins`	heh	[18:29]
nubbins`	"cool..."	[18:29]
nubbins`	"hey, can i see yours?"	[18:30]
nubbins`	http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxdfgkJT9s1qgwtuco1_1280.jpg	[18:30]
nubbins`	that shit is weird on the level of that guy who painted cats	[18:30]
nubbins`	what's his name..	[18:31]
nubbins`	louis wain	[18:31]
nubbins`	https://www.google.ca/search?q=louis+wain&tbm=isch	[18:31]
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nubbins`	okay, i've gotta go try to vacuum some of this mucus out of my face and get to work	[18:33]
nubbins`	more countertops and shelves to be installed	[18:33]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02670003 = 0.3204 BTC [-] {2}	[18:41]
pankkake	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1w397k/justdicecom_a_bitcoin_gambling_site_is_very/ reddit declares jd a scam!	[18:43]
ozbot	just-dice.com a Bitcoin Gambling Site is Very Likely Scamming Investors : Bitcoin	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	;;gpg ident	[18:44]
gribble	Nick 'mircea_popescu', with hostmask 'mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu', is not identified.	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	;;gpg eauth	[18:45]
gribble	(gpg eauth ) -- Initiate authentication for user . You must have registered a GPG key with the bot for this to work. You will be given a link to a page which contains a one time password encrypted with your key. Decrypt, and use the 'everify' command with it. Your passphrase will expire in 10 minutes.	[18:45]
michiel_l	midnightmagic mikaeldice MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mius mixdio	[18:45]
michiel_l	midnightmagic mikaeldice MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mius mixdio	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	;;gpg eauth mircea_popescu	[18:45]
gribble	Request successful for user mircea_popescu, hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/8A736F0E2FB7B452	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:2e6195d15b2c01a8966238fa3e5f01154ac275f02c4121bd6632669e	[18:45]
gribble	You are now authenticated for user mircea_popescu with key 8A736F0E2FB7B452	[18:45]
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mircea_popescu	;;rate chetty 5 S.MG CTO, long history	[18:46]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 5 for user chetty has been recorded.	[18:46]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 81 @ 0.00475339 = 0.385 BTC [+] {3}	[18:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 23 @ 0.00477499 = 0.1098 BTC [+] {2}	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	;;rate diametric 1 mechanical engineer guy, S.NSA subcontractor	[18:51]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user diametric has been recorded.	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	;;rate pankkake 1 python dev	[18:52]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user pankkake has been recorded.	[18:53]
asciilifeform	;;gpg eauth asciilifeform	[18:53]
gribble	Request successful for user asciilifeform, hostmask asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-96-241-145-71.washdc.fios.verizon.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/B98228A001ABFFC7	[18:53]
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mircea_popescu	;;rate bingoboingo 3 blogs, bets, plays chess drunk.	[18:53]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user bingoboingo has changed from 1 to 3.	[18:53]
asciilifeform	;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:c6f53e203890629be816dc0b454353bee2dfdbbb22b0a28e1fb2bf0e	[18:54]
gribble	You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7	[18:54]
asciilifeform	;;rate diametric 1 maestro of mechanicals, S.NSA	[18:55]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user diametric has been recorded.	[18:55]
asciilifeform	;;rate mircea_popescu 5 sorcerer of the forces of good, and overall fun guy.	[18:57]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 5 for user mircea_popescu has been recorded.	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	now to get alan schwartz to wot.	[18:58]
asciilifeform	;;rate bingoboingo 2 retrocomputing archaeology enthusiast, intelligent commentary.	[19:00]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user bingoboingo has been recorded.	[19:00]
pankkake	BingoBoingo has 3 blogs?	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	pankkake this is lisp syntax w/o the (s	[19:01]
pankkake	oh ><	[19:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20802 @ 0.00100951 = 20.9998 BTC [+] {5}	[19:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.00101343 = 14.5934 BTC [+] {3}	[19:06]
asciilifeform	http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2014-01/notwehr-nsa-spionage-us-botschaft	[19:09]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1361 @ 0.00008501 = 0.1157 BTC [+] {3}	[19:10]
mircea_popescu	botch-schaft ? the germans have a name for the us intel ops by now ? like gesellschaft except without any gesell and with a boatload o' botch ?!	[19:10]
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mircea_popescu	so zee germans are going to start bombing us embassies in germany.	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	truely this terrorism fighting concept has worked wonders, by the time you have european union citizens ready to bomb your shit on general principle.	[19:14]
Mats_cd03	I'm glad I don't live in the eu	[19:15]
mircea_popescu	why the eu specifically ?	[19:15]
Mats_cd03	millions of poor Arabs and Africans waiting for the opportunity to flood over the border and fuck your women	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	what, you think women are made of soap ?	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't wear out, yo.	[19:17]
Mats_cd03	They do when there are 3 foreign refugee males for every 1 male national	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	i fail to see it. i didn't perceive much difference among the women i fucked when i lived in my own country or when i lived in countries nominally held by other people. suppose i visit france, wherein all MY women have already been overrun, specifically by the french.	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	magically... there was no shortage of anything, nor any lack of quality.	[19:19]
punkman1	sounds like another version of "they took our jobs"	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	for that matter... xtians and arabs have been swapping womenz for > 900 years by now.	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	doesn't seem to have hurt anything.	[19:21]
asciilifeform	turkish janissary ruling caste comes to mind.	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	aka "the people that jealously guarded their baseless supremacy to the point their ruined the greatest empire in the world"	[19:23]
asciilifeform	yes, them.	[19:23]
Mats_cd03	I'm anticipating the day Muslim extremism _really_ takes off	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	have you ever lived in a muslim country ?	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	i don't mean as a tourist. i mean in the bed of local women.	[19:24]
Mats_cd03	Maybe after a us president lets one off the chain and destroys a nice black rock	[19:24]
Mats_cd03	No	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	yeah well. i'll propose to you that perhaps your anticipation is more a figment of your virginal fears than actual experience of the world.	[19:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00101286 = 20.8143 BTC [-]	[19:26]
asciilifeform	Mats_cd03: also helps to distinguish between what one might call 'the real thing,' and the american export knockoff product.	[19:29]
Mats_cd03	I spend a lot of time with active mil guys and policy analysts and I'll suspend my jokes to say that extremism is a serious transnational problem...there are academics like paul graham that believe a rogue nuke will be definitely be used in the next two decades	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	Mats_cd03 i think a nuke will definitely be used too, whether in x time or not notwithstanding.	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	so what of it ? tokio just got hit by a nuke, and they claim they didn't even notice it.	[19:31]
asciilifeform	Mats_cd03: half-life of tritium in the boosters is ~13 yrs. 'use it or lose it.'	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	town doesn't even need evacuation, water is fine, all is well. just ask the jap govt.	[19:31]
Mats_cd03	But yes one day I will find a nice local and make many mixed justice babies	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	i had no idea graham became an academic meanwhile.	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	til, as he'd say.	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	but that aside : global terrorism is the solution, not the problem. the government is the problem, and in characteristic fashion it tries to paint the solution as "the problem".	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	just like... you know, acording to the soviet politburo the reason there was famine were the kulaks.	[19:33]
asciilifeform	read german material re: partizan hunting sometime. reads just like u.s. 'counter-insurgency' doctrine.	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	so it does.	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	so it would have to.	[19:34]
Mats_cd03	Oops...Graham Allison. I had HN on the mins	[19:34]
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mircea_popescu	sane minds applied to the same real problem yield similar results. german cars sort-of look like american cars for the reason that... well... road, wind, gravity...	[19:34]
Mats_cd03	^mind	[19:34]
asciilifeform	except the 'jaegers' were somewhat good at what they did.	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	dude srsly ? that guy was born in carolina and lived at harvard. the notion that he can be an academic, or intellectually respectable... how ?	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	what'd he know ?	[19:35]
asciilifeform	perhaps softer gravity, smoother roads...	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	something he read ? ty. not interesting.	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah, they only had one guy to answer to. all systems which are build around a spot where the buck stops outperforms systems bereft of such.	[19:35]
asciilifeform	fuhrerprinzip.	[19:36]
asciilifeform	the fact that this is a surprise to anyone is the real surprise.	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	the fact that this is a surprise to anyone is the real surprise to no-one in particular.	[19:36]
KRS1	"Give me Coins" website hacked, 10K Litecoins worth $230k stolen	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	o,o	[19:37]
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mircea_popescu	litecoins worth usd, i still have trouble getting my head around it.	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	"The attackers have most likely exploited an SQL Injection vulnerability."	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	heh	[19:37]
Mats_cd03	How is terrorism the solution	[19:37]
KRS1	Guess they gave em coins	[19:37]
Mats_cd03	Also sqli lol	[19:37]
asciilifeform	speaking of graham, http://www.paulgraham.com/ff.html	[19:37]
KRS1	oldest trick in the book	[19:38]
mircea_popescu	Mats_cd03 renders bureaucracy too expensive and so the whole thing collapses.	[19:38]
Apocalyptic	KRS1, you mean http://give-me-coins.com/ ?	[19:38]
KRS1	i think	[19:38]
Apocalyptic	"The professional multicoin pool"	[19:38]
Apocalyptic	so professional indeed	[19:38]
mircea_popescu	as bureaucracy always entrenches itself against any sort of downsizing, this is the only available method.	[19:38]
KRS1	FBI warns retailers to expect future breaches	[19:38]
mircea_popescu	ty fbi, very useful, how much fiat did it cost ?	[19:39]
KRS1	There is a shortage of at least one million cyber security experts.	[19:39]
Mats_cd03	Bureaucracy is expensive at any price point	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	that's okay, there's an oversupply of at least ten million doods patting each other on the back.	[19:39]
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KRS1	I'm not sure what side i want to be on anymore	[19:40]
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mircea_popescu	KRS1 i thought you were on the nudie side.	[19:40]
KRS1	so tempting they're practically inviting	[19:40]
KRS1	I'm always on the nudie side	[19:40]
KRS1	.bait	[19:40]
*	KRS1 kicks ozbot.	[19:41]
KRS1	;;seen ozbot	[19:41]
gribble	ozbot was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 57 minutes and 22 seconds ago: just-dice.com a Bitcoin Gambling Site is Very Likely Scamming Investors : Bitcoin	[19:41]
KRS1	woa	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	waitwut ?!	[19:41]
KRS1	ozbot spreading fud?	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	;;seen dooglus	[19:41]
gribble	dooglus was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 24 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 50 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: seen mircea_popescu?	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	meh	[19:41]
kakobrekla	lol	[19:42]
kakobrekla	its a tittle from url to reddit	[19:42]
asciilifeform	'cyber security experts' are being supposedly minted here around the clock, and yet the folks i work for couldn't find one kid who could so much as operate 'ida pro', in ~6 mo. of trying.	[19:42]
kakobrekla	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1w397k/justdicecom_a_bitcoin_gambling_site_is_very/ reddit declares jd a scam!	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	lol reddit declares shit.	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	the kids and their delusions of grandeur.	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	"Thankfully, Coinbase said it would take six days to get my Bitcoin and so I didn't have it available to make an investment in the bankroll of the just-dice website."	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	this is a valid point.	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	w/e was saying the same thing re bitbet, "bitcoins being locked here prevents the owner from losing it"	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	"The names of the players on the site are unusual (it is like someone got a book of american names without a real understanding of why americans would be unlikely to either have or pick those screenames)"	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	best proof.	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	"The chat room on the site is very active but the conversations there are unusual and non-linear. It has the feeling of looking busy with no real context at times and at others the conversation is very linear."	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	bwahahaha this is great. "hey guise i am new to internet stuff, it's all fake rite ???"	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	a gem. ty p	[19:46]
Apocalyptic	lol mircea	[19:46]
cads	huh, radicalization is cool!	[19:46]
*	ozbot (~ozbot@unaffiliated/jezzz/bot/ozcoin) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	cads until someone loses an eye. then it's hysterical.	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, what are you up to these days ?	[19:47]
cads	just chilling, studying and working	[19:47]
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cads	what's new on your side of the lake?	[19:48]
mircea_popescu	suddenly disappeared means either got a kid, got a habit or else scammed a buncha coins. what is this work and study you speak of.	[19:48]
cads	I study at the university, and work as a machinist	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	well on this side of the lake as you can see, we're preparing to set on fire us embassies, or something. basically everyone's in agreement there shall be a war, still ironing out where exactly.	[19:49]
cads	my study is mostly math	[19:49]
cads	but also some econ and finance	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	anyway you can apply some of that study to bitcoin finance for great justice ?	[19:50]
cads	hehe, it would be neat to develop some pricing models when I learn that math	[19:50]
asciilifeform	do newly-elected german chancellors still have to fly to washington to get secretly sworn into muppethood?	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	afaik that dropped in the 90s	[19:51]
cads	mircea_popescu: I'd imagine there are people that have already adapted models for things like the the bitcoin options trading house	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	cads seriously now : it's a vast field, it's by far the most important thing happening on planet earth for now, the majority of people "involved" are carpenters by trade, if not professional welfare leeches.	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	great time to do some foundational work.	[19:51]
asciilifeform	best thing is, any hypothesis in the field is immediately testable, all you need is a computer.	[19:52]
cads	yeah, earlier on I figured that I could probably do some awesome research in finance just by reflecting on bitcoin and continuing to learn math	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	also publish it somewhere.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	you don't realise it now, but in a decade being able to point to a verifiable 10 year history will mean you can have any job you want.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	supposing you for some insane reason actuyally want a job in cacademia.	[19:53]
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jurov	people already adapted models? who? where?	[19:59]
benkay	well the mpoe bot for one but i dunno if that counts for people	[19:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] [PAID] 2.17250000 BTC to 86`900 shares, 2500 satoshi per share	[20:00]
jurov	i mean, outside of that. and it's still far from profitable (for bondholders)	[20:00]
benkay	it's profitable for the bondholders who insist on a good rate	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	it's complicated	[20:01]
benkay	it's a good fleecing of those who're willing to settle for .45 or whatever it was hovering at before the last hammering	[20:01]
jurov	benkay did you see the stats?	[20:01]
benkay	yeah stats assume you're invested each month	[20:02]
benkay	right? unless i misread that spreadsheet	[20:02]
jurov	so your investor would read from crystal ball "withdraw in march and november"	[20:03]
benkay	no no no	[20:03]
benkay	just don't chase rate around. leave bond deposit requested premium nice and high. forego interest during periods of low interest, capture the high interest periods after the bot gets hammered in a given month.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	the stats as reported are overall, and moreover they misrepresent data in a sort of implicit leveraging	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	(the sums not used even if available each month are not reported)	[20:04]
jurov	that would work if the bonds did not eat themselves.	[20:05]
jurov	you can ask 30% mpbor, but you never actually get it	[20:05]
jurov	and end up actually worse in total than people who asked 4%	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	how worse ?	[20:06]
jurov	if you ask 4% , you can get 4% every month compounded while btc rate is stable	[20:07]
jurov	if you ask 30% then you get nothing while btc rate si stable	[20:07]
jurov	and when there is loss you cover it alike with all the other bonds	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	well, unless mpoe makes 25% profit on a stable month and there's nobody else there, in which case you walk away with 25%	[20:08]
jurov	IF your bond gets used.	[20:08]
Apocalyptic	I still don't get wtf Hearn is doing at the foundation's head position	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic nobody honest wanted the job ?	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	jurov well yes, it's a longshot.	[20:09]
benkay	chasing return on btc is a great way to loose btc	[20:09]
benkay	har arguably the best thing to do with 100 btc is put it on deposit as a bond with MPOE at like 50%	[20:09]
benkay	you won't make any money, but you won't lose a terrible lot either	[20:10]
jurov	20% (or dunno how much it was) isn't terrible lot?	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	his theory is that when shtf and bonds get eaten up you may lose.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	however, the capital needs as a volume of btc and the losses as a % are not necessarily correlated too well.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	at least imo	[20:11]
jurov	actually, because if you ask 50%, then EVERYONE, even people who asked 4% will get it	[20:11]
jurov	thus, loss is practically guaranteed	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	if you get touched. yes.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	i stil ldon't see how is loss guaranteed ?	[20:11]
benkay	i was halfway joking jurov	[20:11]
jurov	yes, that case	[20:11]
benkay	suggesting that you wouldn't get touched at that rate	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	jurov basically you seem to me to proceed on the theory that "large capital needs" necessarily means "mpoe makes a loss". this seems baseless.	[20:12]
benkay	^^	[20:12]
jurov	i rather would like to see how you can get touched at that rate and not end up with a loss.	[20:12]
jurov	this requires your bond be bigger than sum of all the others	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	jurov let's model things for a second.	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	bonds : 10 btc at 10%, 40 btc at 15%, 10 btc at 50%	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	1st month : 5 btc profit, 15 btc capital needed.	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	10 gets 1.5, 40 gets .75, the remainder 2.75 goes to shareholders.	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	right ?	[20:14]
jurov	won't the 40 get 15% too?	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	yes, 15% on 5 btc	[20:14]
jurov	ok. i'm following.	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	2nd month : 150 btc profit, 55 btc capital needed.	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	10 gets 5, 40 gets 20, 10 gets 2.5	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	shareholders get 122.5 btc	[20:15]
jurov	moment... did mpoe ever made 3x needed capital?	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	i don't know right off, but are you proposing that two years of mpoe covers the entire universe of possibilities, and nothing new will ever happen in the future ?	[20:16]
jurov	my opinion is that it's extremely unlikely	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	and that's fine.	[20:16]
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mircea_popescu	moving on : 3rd month. 30 btc loss, 51 btc capital.	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	10 loses 5.9, 40 loses 23.5, 10 loses .59	[20:17]
jurov	the 30btc loss already includes 25.5 btc paid as premium?	[20:18]
Apocalyptic	pankkake, you said earlier the payment protocol looks fine to you, did you know Hearn pushes for SSL to be part of it with all the centralized cert authority issues it implies ?	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	jurov no, these are net	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic he said it looks fine ?!	[20:19]
Apocalyptic	yeah, let me dig that up	[20:19]
pankkake	I said it's OK except for the reliance on CAs :)	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	el sueno de la razon...	[20:20]
Apocalyptic	oh, missed the except part then :=	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	how is it ok even without cas.	[20:20]
pankkake	I just see it as a better way to do	[20:20]
jurov	so then the total loss attributed to bonds is 55.5 BTC... rather extreme example	[20:20]
Apocalyptic	mircea has a point here	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	jurov yes, the point of modelling is to go through the extremes	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	pankkake what is your definition of "better way" ? like, instead of a woman telling you when she's ready to fuck, she wears a collar sold in a shop which beeps ?	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	is this a better way to fuck, iyo ?	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	"because this way the woman can't lie about when she feels like getting laid"	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	as if this is a problem that actually needs a solution at any point.	[20:24]
pankkake	well women should wear collars, but I disagree on the collar implementation	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	suppose you let them pick ?	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	unless you're an impotent fuckwit with delusions of self-importance who imagines that if he's eaten catered food under enough cheap false ceilings he now has something to say on this - or any other - topic.	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	and that periphrase does not only name mike hearn, even if it fits him so well. in fact, there's a legion of this sort of scum floating about.	[20:26]
Apocalyptic	part of the beauty of the bitcoin protocol resides in how simple it is to just have an address and like mircea said this is a solution to a non-problem	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	they're the people we wish to kill, and they're the reason we even work with bitcoin in the first place	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	so they may be killed.	[20:26]
pankkake	it doesn't change the bitcoin protocol though	[20:26]
pankkake	it's just a wallet feature	[20:27]
Dimsler	well the problem with the main fiat economies is usury	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	so they claim.	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	they didn't change the term of service, either	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	you just can't take your own money out of your own bank anymore, is all.	[20:27]
Apocalyptic	what would be interesting to know is that if at some point they would go for it, how widely accepted would be a fork that preserves the actual model	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic extremely widely accepted. here's a secret of polychinelle : starting with about 6.0, the versions of bitcoin fromn the so called "dev team" have just about zero support.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	sure, reddit uses them. reddit has no bitcoin.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	what's worse, reddit has no brain.	[20:28]
Dimsler	most bitcoiners have no brain	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	people with no money and no brains don't count in this world.	[20:28]
Apocalyptic	in other terms, how many people woud actual not blindly run to bitcoin.org to update because they heard they should	[20:28]
Dimsler	the early bitcoiners are some really aweful people	[20:29]
Apocalyptic	Dimsler, that makes me worried	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	Apocalyptic pretty much everyone that knows me won't, for one.	[20:29]
Dimsler	why they are being replaced with real developers	[20:29]
Apocalyptic	mircea, one can hope :)	[20:29]
Dimsler	and institutionalized investors	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[20:29]
Dimsler	the bitcoiner of 2012-2013 is hopefully going to disappear with the tier 2 development	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	Dimsler the idea is to replace institutionalised investors with mpex, not to shittify bitcoin by having it look more like something dimon might easily wrap his head around.	[20:30]
pankkake	tier 2 development?	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	ya, wut ?! 2012 is tier 3 already.	[20:30]
pankkake	tiers?	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	well w/e, i presume he means waves.	[20:30]
KRS1	;;diff	[20:30]
gribble	2.193847870174279E9	[20:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02897997 = 0.1739 BTC [+]	[20:30]
jurov	um, so we modelled the mpoe extremes and claim problem solved?	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	jurov i was waiting for you to ok it as i had a 4th month	[20:31]
jurov	ah ok	[20:31]
jurov	er..	[20:31]
mircea_popescu	4th month : profit 3 btc, capital 60 btc.	[20:31]
mircea_popescu	10 gets .5, 40 gets 2, 10 gets .5	[20:31]
Dimsler	i'm hoping on some of the eastern european development teams push multi sig and colored coins	[20:31]
mircea_popescu	again, net. on paper in fact they get 5 btc, of which 4.5 btc comes out of their capital, so they are left with 5.5 on the books,	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	and get paid 5 btc in cash	[20:32]
Dimsler	they've already grew btc-e on pure anonymininty	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	Dimsler you're way behind on your reading.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	colored coins died in 2012.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	;;google why i nixed colored coins	[20:32]
gribble	OP_CHECKCOLORVERIFY: soft-fork for native color coin support ...: ; Treasury: We won't mint a platinum coin to sidestep the debt ceiling: ; Money and Coins - K-4 Activities: EnchantedLearning.com: (1 more message)	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	whoa check it out, google went on a relevancy break	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-nixed-p2p-colored-coins-and-all-that-jazz/	[20:32]
ozbot	Why I nixed p2p, colored coins and all that jazz pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	there, a year ago almost to the day	[20:32]
Dimsler	i've read a bit about this	[20:32]
Dimsler	in essence its not specifically coloured coins	[20:33]
Dimsler	but what about the issuance of an asset	[20:33]
Dimsler	based on a blockchain address	[20:33]
Dimsler	as proof of stake	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	issuance of assets is not something that should ever be public facing.	[20:33]
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mircea_popescu	let the prospective issuer get the ok of someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about first.	[20:33]
asciilifeform	just for the record, there is the (so far entirely theoretical) possibility of movement in the other direction	[20:34]
asciilifeform	e.g. crypto-blind block chain, etc.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	how you mean ?	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	jurov now, these are more or less the edges of the space.	[20:35]
mircea_popescu	is your argument that the average provably converges away from the center ?	[20:35]
asciilifeform	the various schemes for mathematically-founded anonymity	[20:35]
mircea_popescu	but as a game-theoretic construct i mean	[20:35]
jurov	moment, all considered, then 30 btc gets first removed from the principals	[20:36]
asciilifeform	(example of 'zerocoin' etc)	[20:36]
jurov	10 pays 5 btc, 40 pays 20 btc, 10 pays 5	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	right.	[20:38]
jurov	and then they receive the interest with the same amounts	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	well 0.5 2 .5 ya	[20:39]
jurov	ok, let's go on	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	that'd be all.	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	these are the edges pretty much	[20:40]
jurov	now, if needed capital is < 50btc, my 50% bond sits unused	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	yup	[20:42]
jurov	if it's >= 60 then it gets same result as all the other bonds	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	yup	[20:42]
jurov	the problem is, there seems to be a correlation between loss and exhaustion of bondholders' capital	[20:43]
jurov	we don't have any good sample	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	if you like math, one thing you can do is define this game as a GM construct and play a billion rounds	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	course the results will be dubious on the face, cause of possible bias, but still, it's research.	[20:43]
jurov	one would have to simulate the players, too. they do trade options more when the rate is volatile, but how much more?	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	hence the bias.	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	moreover, how likely are they to be right ?	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	if they are wrong and trade a lot that doesn't hurt the bonds.	[20:44]
jurov	if i buy a call and am wrong, mpoe gets only up to the price i paid	[20:45]
jurov	but if i'm right, i can get anything	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	well yes, this is the story of options.	[20:45]
benkay	GM mircea_popescu?	[20:46]
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mircea_popescu	GT i mean. game theory.	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	"game theoretic" in context i guess	[20:48]
benkay	that makes a bit more sense, ty	[20:48]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00309512 = 0.3405 BTC [-]	[21:00]
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benkay	mircea_popescu: the column 'capital' in bond history tables includes or does not include last resort capital?	[21:03]
jurov	it does	[21:04]
benkay	thanks	[21:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 30 @ 0.00455 = 0.1365 BTC [-] {2}	[21:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1050 @ 0.00100737 = 1.0577 BTC [-]	[21:09]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 7 @ 0.02897997 = 0.2029 BTC [+]	[21:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.02897998 = 0.1449 BTC [+]	[21:14]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00309512 = 0.3095 BTC [-]	[21:25]
benkay	well i've gone and confused myself again. mircea_popescu jurov: the statements for say, december 2012 says that the MPBOR for dec 28-jan 25 is 4.99, but thats the rate paid against the december capital. similarly, the jan statement says that the MPBOR for jan26-feb22 will be 9.99 but i'm reading the reports to say that premium was charged for capital borrowed over the course of jan.	[21:26]
benkay	any clarification on what i'm not understanding today would be much appreciated	[21:27]
benkay	also thestringpuller i know you follow mpbor, if you have any ideas about what i'm missing it'd be great to straighten out	[21:28]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0499 = 0.499 BTC [+]	[21:33]
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nubbins`	http://imgur.com/suj5Kif	[21:48]
nubbins`	more countertops installed!	[21:48]
nubbins`	juts gotta do some finishing work and add varnish	[21:48]
nubbins`	"The chat room on the site is very active but the conversations there are unusual and non-linear"	[21:49]
nubbins`	so the trollbox doesn't read well?	[21:49]
nubbins`	shocker	[21:49]
nubbins`	i'd be more suspicious if i saw an actual ingelligent, linear conversation take place	[21:49]
nubbins`	oh man. dooglus' response to that reddit thread is great	[21:58]
kakobrekla	https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/71442_637564166304619_1239354365_n.jpg	[21:59]
asciilifeform	'we suffered pretty heavy losses due to an unusually lucky big player...'	[22:00]
asciilifeform	some joker cracked the prng?	[22:00]
nubbins`	shrug. funny thing about luck ;p	[22:00]
kakobrekla	that translates to slovene too, only 'stable' also means 'fucked up'	[22:02]
asciilifeform	for some odd reason, nobody ever gets this lucky in meatspace casino.	[22:02]
nubbins`	are casinos provably fair with 1% house edge, tho?	[22:03]
nubbins`	well. "provably".	[22:03]
nubbins`	but either way, from what i understand, the setup of jd lends itself to wild swings of luck, both good and bad	[22:04]
benkay	got some trash to talk on someone's provably fair gambling setup, nubbins` ?	[22:05]
nubbins`	not at all, no, just putting quotes on a word	[22:05]
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benkay	ah	[22:07]
benkay	you got me all excited!	[22:07]
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nubbins`	heh	[22:07]
nubbins`	nah, i'm just being silly	[22:08]
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nubbins`	http://downworthy.snipe.net/	[22:08]
nubbins`	^ browser plugin that translates shitty 'viral' headlines	[22:09]
nubbins`	"One Weird Trick" becomes "One Piece of Completely Anecdotal Horseshit"	[22:09]
nubbins`	etc	[22:09]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.48000701 = 1.44 BTC [-] {3}	[22:26]
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googBus_	hello	[22:49]
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kakobrekla	hi	[22:53]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 240 @ 0.00309511 = 0.7428 BTC [+] {2}	[22:57]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 230 @ 0.00309989 = 0.713 BTC [+] {3}	[22:58]
KRS1	Hey there	[22:59]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0031 = 0.62 BTC [+]	[23:02]
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jurov	benkay, yes it applies to previous month	[23:13]
jurov	the mpbor isn't currently used for anything outside the bonds calculation	[23:14]
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benkay	well i made some graphs for y'all on the topic of mpbor etc: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/01/25_notes-on-mpex-historical-bond-rates-and-other-data.html	[23:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.0275 = 0.1375 BTC [-]	[23:22]
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jurov	When the bot takes a loss, the subsequent month's premium increases as well. << benkay this is not automatic	[23:30]
jurov	it's because bondholders change the requested rate	[23:31]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 376 @ 0.0046 = 1.7296 BTC [-]	[23:35]
benkay	oh i should make that clear	[23:36]
benkay	i was shooting for 'implications of the above chart are that bondholders change their opinions about stuff leading to the following'	[23:36]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 178 @ 0.0046 = 0.8188 BTC [-] {2}	[23:36]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 201 @ 0.0045 = 0.9045 BTC [-] {2}	[23:37]
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*	elgrecoFL has quit (Excess Flood)	[23:53]
*	elgrecoFL (Jezzz@unaffiliated/elgrecofl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:57]

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