Forum logs for 25 Dec 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
* linton_s_dawson (linton_s_d@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-sinlrusxyezdszco) has left #bitcoin-assets [00:00]
asciilifeform << account of su reverse engineering the famous 'ivy bells' device. afaik this has never appeared in english [00:00]
assbot ... ( ) [00:00]
asciilifeform or possibly it has [00:00]
asciilifeform nm. [00:00]
asciilifeform looks like might even be a back-translation [00:01]
asciilifeform (or fabrication..) [00:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00050395 = 10.9861 BTC [-] {2} [00:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84050 @ 0.00050458 = 42.4099 BTC [+] {2} [00:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00050678 = 12.2641 BTC [+] {2} [00:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76294 @ 0.00050427 = 38.4728 BTC [-] [00:42]
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deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin to top $800 before Jul 2016 - [01:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00050731 = 25.7206 BTC [+] {2} [02:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32358 @ 0.00050747 = 16.4207 BTC [+] [02:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32116 @ 0.00050751 = 16.2992 BTC [+] {2} [02:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48600 @ 0.00050528 = 24.5566 BTC [-] [02:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29250 @ 0.00050521 = 14.7774 BTC [-] {2} [03:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84200 @ 0.00050484 = 42.5075 BTC [-] [03:24]
* asciilifeform switches on... air conditioner [03:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48018 @ 0.00050753 = 24.3706 BTC [+] {2} [03:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6282 @ 0.00050784 = 3.1903 BTC [+] [03:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87350 @ 0.00050791 = 44.3659 BTC [+] {2} [04:03]
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phf dc is actually quite pleasant when all the apparatchiks are home celebrating national holiday [04:11]
phf cigar bar was all malcontents and characters [04:11]
phf but yeah, it's fucking hot out [04:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77600 @ 0.0005074 = 39.3742 BTC [-] [04:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.0005074 = 9.1839 BTC [-] [04:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77500 @ 0.00050694 = 39.2879 BTC [-] [04:44]
BingoBoingo here near stl is is a pleasant spring weather [04:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51550 @ 0.00050484 = 26.0245 BTC [-] [05:20]
BingoBoingo [05:26]
assbot Every year this smug fat bastard breaks into people's home and stuffs himself with cookies. The worst part is no one says a word about it. I blame fat acceptance. | fatpeoplehate ... ( ) [05:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00050522 = 4.1428 BTC [+] [05:40]
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phf there's been reports in the media that naughty or nice database has been breached, but of course everyone knows that santa has been cooperating with NSA for years [05:41]
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BingoBoingo Always taking the easy way out [05:49]
BingoBoingo !up PinkPosixPXE [05:49]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31900 @ 0.00050522 = 16.1165 BTC [+] [05:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24350 @ 0.0005051 = 12.2992 BTC [-] {2} [06:04]
deedbot- [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part i. - [06:05]
ben_vulpes > 0.5.3 selected by Mircea Popescu [06:16]
ben_vulpes eh gtfo pete [06:16]
ben_vulpes article woefully lacking in links to and [06:18]
assbot A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21 ... ( ) [06:18]
assbot A brief history of the Bitcoin Foundation's activity from 10/2014 through 4/2015 ... ( ) [06:18]
ben_vulpes the link you cite as mircea_popescu picking 0.5.3 is a response to a request for a copy of the source of a particular vintage [06:19]
* assbot removes voice from PinkPosixPXE [06:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48050 @ 0.00050694 = 24.3585 BTC [+] [06:20]
thestringpuller Merry Xmas ya'll. Or at least the people within my timezone... [06:32]
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thestringpuller BingoBoingo: << oh look. "competition". Roger Ver wants to get into journalism now. Whatever happened to that "successful" shit he used to run [06:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66000 @ 0.00050562 = 33.3709 BTC [-] [07:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49684 @ 0.00050562 = 25.1212 BTC [-] [07:06]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77100 @ 0.00050516 = 38.9478 BTC [-] {2} [07:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32800 @ 0.00050601 = 16.5971 BTC [+] [07:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88754 @ 0.00050484 = 44.8066 BTC [-] [07:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56796 @ 0.00050427 = 28.6405 BTC [-] [07:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15410 @ 0.00050427 = 7.7708 BTC [-] [07:53]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell BingoBoingo << missed this one? [07:54]
gribble The operation succeeded. [07:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28990 @ 0.00050385 = 14.6066 BTC [-] [07:54]
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jurov heh, looks like a bsnss opportunity for a paid pastebin >:D [07:55]
ben_vulpes isn't that called a webserver? [08:05]
deedbot- [cascadian hacker] [ANN] WOTPASTE Alpha (oh and I found another fucked up corner of GPG...) - [08:05]
ben_vulpes jurov: while we're on the topic... [08:05]
ben_vulpes ahh i love shipping in the wee hours [08:08]
punkman ben_vulpes: not just newlines, you can add spaces, tabs, and possibly other things at end of lines [08:12]
ben_vulpes isn't it grand!? [08:12]
punkman [08:13]
assbot Logged on 20-08-2015 09:40:13; punkman: (exercise for students: clearsign a piece of text. append as many trailing spaces/tabs/CRs as you like to the clearsigned text. check if it's still valid. repeat process with detached signature, see what happens) [08:13]
ben_vulpes ah that's right you beat me to this one by a long shot [08:13]
ben_vulpes but i don't think you called out specifically that you can rewrite the whole file's line ending styles without invalidating it [08:14]
punkman we'd have a lot more bad signatures if it wasn't the case [08:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92000 @ 0.00050665 = 46.6118 BTC [+] {2} [08:18]
punkman ben_vulpes: while signed pasties are nice for the pastie collector, ain't nobody got time for that [08:23]
punkman I guess it'd be useful as deedbot input [08:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27863 @ 0.00050694 = 14.1249 BTC [+] [08:27]
ben_vulpes hm [08:29]
ben_vulpes k, noted [08:29]
ben_vulpes there's an experimental aspect to it as well, in the vein of getting more signed msterial out in the world [08:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52500 @ 0.000507 = 26.6175 BTC [+] {2} [08:39]
jurov ben_vulpes: gpg is okay with changed line endings in clearsigned content. However, some email clients helpfully wrap text or add/remove empty lines and there the buck stops. [09:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66100 @ 0.00050383 = 33.3032 BTC [-] {2} [09:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50514 @ 0.00050847 = 25.6849 BTC [+] {2} [09:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66500 @ 0.00050383 = 33.5047 BTC [-] [10:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8242 @ 0.00050383 = 4.1526 BTC [-] [10:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6118 @ 0.00050383 = 3.0824 BTC [-] [10:29]
jurov ahahaha ded moroz [10:32]
assbot ... ( ) [10:32]
jurov year 1959 - from [10:35]
assbot ... ( ) [10:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41700 @ 0.00050817 = 21.1907 BTC [+] [10:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.00050726 = 30.9936 BTC [-] {2} [10:42]
punkman lol [10:45]
assbot GLONASS Tracks Father Frost - NORAD Tracks Santa Wiki - Wikia ... ( ) [10:45]
punkman for aficionados, greek santa is not Nicholas [10:53]
assbot Basil of Caesarea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( ) [10:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48750 @ 0.000506 = 24.6675 BTC [-] {2} [10:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.0005085 = 2.2883 BTC [+] [11:06]
punkman and the traditional christmas tree is actually a christmas boat [11:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9136 @ 0.00050319 = 4.5971 BTC [-] [11:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19834 @ 0.00050123 = 9.9414 BTC [-] [11:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99031 @ 0.00050892 = 50.3989 BTC [+] {3} [11:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00050148 = 14.9692 BTC [-] [12:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87750 @ 0.00050926 = 44.6876 BTC [+] {3} [12:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23350 @ 0.00050959 = 11.8989 BTC [+] [12:33]
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mircea_popescu << moscow was just as great! [13:03]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 07:07:34; phf: dc is actually quite pleasant when all the apparatchiks are home celebrating national holiday [13:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63450 @ 0.00050138 = 31.8126 BTC [-] {2} [13:04]
mircea_popescu << it's true, i never picked 5.3 per se. my contribution was that i said no later than 6 series ; foundation held an informal hearing, decided to go the earliest possible rather than latest possible route, supoena'd me for historical copies which i provided and htey used. [13:10]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 09:15:18; ben_vulpes: the link you cite as mircea_popescu picking 0.5.3 is a response to a request for a copy of the source of a particular vintage [13:10]
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mircea_popescu <<< it got too successful for its own victim or something. [13:13]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 09:47:49; thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: << oh look. "competition". Roger Ver wants to get into journalism now. Whatever happened to that "successful" shit he used to run [13:13]
mircea_popescu |<< everyone who had to use gpg got bruised by gpg. davout was talking to me about this in 2013, for a diff project [13:14]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 11:09:52; ben_vulpes: ah that's right you beat me to this one by a long shot [13:14]
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mircea_popescu << heh check out the czech starlets! [13:20]
assbot ... ( ) [13:20]
mircea_popescu pick the 2000s pronstarz in there ? [13:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00050959 = 7.1088 BTC [+] [13:33]
jurov mircea_popescu: as the pics are from '50-'60s, surely not. [13:33]
mod6 ;;later tell pete_dushenski Hey, thanks for starting to write up some of this stuff. I aught to point out at least one thing: 'Checkpoints excised by Shane Kinney' [13:33]
gribble The operation succeeded. [13:33]
mod6 ;;later tell pete_dushenski Although I posted this patch in December of '14, it was quickly tabled by February -- and I wrote about this in the SoBA: [13:34]
gribble The operation succeeded. [13:34]
assbot [BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( ) [13:34]
mod6 read this section: [ Tabling of Checkpoints Patch ]: [13:34]
punkman isn't verifyall equivalent to no checkpoints? [13:35]
mod6 And this statement is not accurate: ``With the “rm_checkpoints” patch, the wedge issue at Block 252450 was overcome.'' [13:35]
mod6 it was this patch that overcame that issue: bitcoin-v0_5_3-db_config.6.vpatch [13:36]
mod6 here's the original posting of that: [13:36]
assbot [BTC-dev] BDB Configuration ... ( ) [13:36]
mod6 Sorry that it's confusing and not super easy to follow, just hoping to make your cool historical timeline a bit more accurate. Salud! [13:37]
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mod6 punkman: ya [13:43]
mod6 - if (!(fBlock && (nBestHeight < Checkpoints::GetTotalBlocksEstimate()))) [13:43]
mod6 + if (fVerifyAll || (!(fBlock && (nBestHeight < Checkpoints::GetTotalBlocksEstimate())))) [13:43]
mod6 different patch though [13:43]
mod6 [13:44]
assbot [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Add '-verifyall' option. ... ( ) [13:44]
mod6 and its worthwhile to point out the db locks thing is separate [13:45]
shinohai Let me say that -verifyall really does it's job of verifying blocks lol [13:48]
shinohai Also, been stalled on block 381423 for ~12 hours. [13:50]
punkman ;;bc,stats [13:52]
gribble Current Blocks: 390129 | Current Difficulty: 9.34486707963238E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 391103 | Next Difficulty In: 974 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 37 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [13:52]
mircea_popescu jurov oh i thought it was 80s [13:53]
mircea_popescu heh, i suppose that's the strongest indictment for the soviets ever : can't fucking distinguish 50s from 80s looking at the pictures. [13:53]
punkman lol [13:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00050966 = 8.18 BTC [+] {2} [13:54]
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mircea_popescu isn't verifyall equivalent to no checkpoints? << in trb yes. otherwise... complicated. [13:57]
asciilifeform << i like going to american antique stores, stocked with '40s-'50s crud. it's kinda like a tour to my '80s childhood [13:59]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 16:49:49; mircea_popescu: heh, i suppose that's the strongest indictment for the soviets ever : can't fucking distinguish 50s from 80s looking at the pictures. [13:59]
asciilifeform << i recommend reading the code. it disables the 'checkpoint' crud (in the sense of forcing all blocks, including the early ones covered by the 'checkpoint' kludge, to be verified) [14:00]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 16:45:04; shinohai: Let me say that -verifyall really does it's job of verifying blocks lol [14:00]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> heh, i suppose that's the strongest indictment for the soviets ever : can't fucking distinguish 50s from 80s looking at the pictures. << yeah, whenever i see these older pics, I can't tell if its 30 years ago or 60 [14:06]
asciilifeform i still don't get what is so terrible about this. [14:06]
asciilifeform folks dressed like civilized people, tasteful quasi-victorian rooms, etc. [14:07]
mod6 totally nothing. i actually kinda like these. [14:07]
asciilifeform ;;later tell pete_dushenski << iirc this is the earliest point of reference for proto-trb [14:08]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:08]
assbot Logged on 18-08-2014 00:46:28; mircea_popescu: so here is a "witness" bitcoin, v 0.6 and there is your "improved" 0.10 (lulzy that it's not 1.0 anymoar) [14:08]
asciilifeform ( mircea_popescu reveals that he has - to this day unpublished! - private 31337 version of bitcoin; then everybody tries to pry detail outa him; ben_vulpes asks for pedigreed tarballs; i ask for printed book... etc ) [14:09]
asciilifeform ;;later tell ben_vulpes << [14:12]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:12]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 11:26:49; ben_vulpes: there's an experimental aspect to it as well, in the vein of getting more signed msterial out in the world [14:12]
assbot Logged on 24-12-2015 21:22:07; asciilifeform: << no!! because deedbot requires privkey use during paste, which is very arduous if you have good hygiene [14:12]
asciilifeform maybe i'm just thick, but i can't think of what ben_vulpes's 'wotpaste' is actually for [14:12]
mircea_popescu folks dressed like civilized people, tasteful quasi-victorian rooms, etc. <<< you priviledged lout you. [14:13]
assbot Piinea amara a baietasilor de cartier on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [14:13]
asciilifeform << chronology! >> [14:14]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 16:06:51; mircea_popescu: << it's true, i never picked 5.3 per se. my contribution was that i said no later than 6 series ; foundation held an informal hearing, decided to go the earliest possible rather than latest possible route, supoena'd me for historical copies which i provided and htey used. [14:14]
assbot Logged on 22-10-2014 18:45:41; *: jurov just snatched . we'll see. [14:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hey everybody's front door looked like this [14:14]
mircea_popescu sooooo [14:14]
asciilifeform perhaps i'm missing the point of the photo..? [14:15]
mircea_popescu looky, the 1990 revolutions happened because hunger. this is a fact. [14:16]
asciilifeform aha [14:16]
mircea_popescu the article kinda mocks some .ro rappers because hey, hunger. anyway. [14:16]
mircea_popescu maybe i'm just thick, but i can't think of what ben_vulpes's 'wotpaste' is actually for << not really his, i just idly asked why would we make a special thing for paste when deedbot already has all that functionality and more. within the same ten minutes it came to light why and the matter went away afaic. [14:17]
asciilifeform because i wanna paste from a shell [14:19]
asciilifeform as in, through a pipe [14:19]
mircea_popescu aha. [14:19]
asciilifeform and many other trb folks, i imagine, could also find this useful [14:19]
asciilifeform and i ain't signing pipe garbage [14:19]
asciilifeform (which i might not even know the content of in advance!) [14:19]
asciilifeform pastes are a disposable thing that one might produce ten of in a single minute [14:20]
mircea_popescu this poor goat is dead alfie. why you beatin' it. [14:21]
* asciilifeform is still waiting for the first 'shall be delivered'-style disaster to illustrate 'don't carelessly sign things' [14:21]
mircea_popescu the guy that got all butthurt about his eth short not good enough for you ? [14:21]
asciilifeform didn't he lose his key ? [14:21]
mircea_popescu the other guy that was going to "ruin bitbet in social media" because similar ? [14:22]
asciilifeform very different problem [14:22]
mircea_popescu i guess technically different huh. [14:22]
asciilifeform everybody ~knows~ that losing your key is doom [14:22]
asciilifeform but folks sign carelessly, because very few good public, bloody, examples of why not to [14:23]
asciilifeform << 'как наденешь галстук, береги его, он же с нашим знаменем цвета одного!!!' (tm) (r) [14:24]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 16:16:23; mircea_popescu: << heh check out the czech starlets! [14:24]
asciilifeform (re: the 'pioneer' neckties) [14:25]
asciilifeform this rhyme, incidentally, was mercilessly spoofed [14:25]
mircea_popescu was discussing more the hitler jugend one-inch-over-pubis skirts [14:25]
asciilifeform original 'when you get your necktie, keep it safe, it is the same colour as our red banner' [14:25]
* mircea_popescu is partial to that fashion for girlies, perhaps on account of having grown up in a sea of teenybopper knickers. [14:25]
asciilifeform 'folk' variations included 'Как наденешь галстук - береги его: Он с твоими месячными цвета одного' [14:26]
asciilifeform (... it is same colour as your menstruations) [14:26]
asciilifeform or 'Как наденешь галстук - Береги его! Есть на чём повеситься, В случае чего' [14:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know the (same vintage) aspirin contraception joke ? [14:26]
asciilifeform ( ... you'll have what to hang yourself on, just in case ) [14:26]
asciilifeform everybody knows it [14:27]
asciilifeform even in usa [14:27]
mircea_popescu aok [14:27]
* asciilifeform also partial to same fashion [14:27]
asciilifeform prolylly for same reason [14:27]
mircea_popescu << actually re-reading this... hey, pretty fucking cool huh. [14:28]
assbot A brief history of the Bitcoin Foundation's activity from 10/2014 through 4/2015 ... ( ) [14:28]
asciilifeform interesting how it never caught on in supposedly depuritanized usa [14:28]
mircea_popescu mod6 reconfigures BDB to pass the wedge at block 252450 << remember that alf ? :D [14:28]
asciilifeform aha [14:28]
* asciilifeform still loathes bdb and would like to see it go, asap [14:29]
mircea_popescu honestly the only way to replace that seems bitcoinfs [14:30]
mircea_popescu still premature. [14:30]
* asciilifeform has been looking at the socket handling, and it is imho the most urgent crock of shit ~after~ the leak [14:32]
asciilifeform one idiot can trivially monopolize a node. [14:32]
mircea_popescu yeah, take some load off poor iptables for this. [14:32]
asciilifeform the whole polled socket thing is deeply braindamaged [14:34]
asciilifeform (it is a sort of 'cooperative multitasking', a la win95 !) [14:34]
asciilifeform client walks the fd's and sees if socket 'needs service' and gives itself over to it wholly until whatever operation (however long it takes) is complete [14:35]
mircea_popescu guy was a windows head. [14:35]
asciilifeform and ~despite~ this, the source is still peppered with 'critical section' locks etc [14:35]
mircea_popescu i think locks and lock behavious is nsa's #1 favourite metacomputing item. [14:36]
mircea_popescu counterintuitively, ahead of prngs [14:36]
asciilifeform who doesn't love a good ol'fashioned race condition bug [14:36]
mircea_popescu you know ? [14:36]
mircea_popescu way the fuck better than a smash. [14:36]
asciilifeform (anybody recall the race condition 0days in linux kernel circa 2011 ?) [14:36]
mircea_popescu myeah. [14:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36445 @ 0.00051001 = 18.5873 BTC [+] {2} [14:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82457 @ 0.00050886 = 41.9591 BTC [-] {3} [15:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00051002 = 15.2496 BTC [+] {3} [15:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50018 @ 0.00051006 = 25.5122 BTC [+] {3} [15:41]
* VariaVarietatis (~vv@unaffiliated/variavarietatis) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16550 @ 0.00051009 = 8.442 BTC [+] [15:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63294 @ 0.00050667 = 32.0692 BTC [-] {2} [15:49]
jurov kek [15:51]
assbot %*$*#&#* Windows 7 Calculator | Hacker News ... ( ) [15:51]
* assbot gives voice to VariaVarietatis [15:55]
VariaVarietatis sup mircea_popescu [15:56]
VariaVarietatis asciilifeform: heard a rumor they might close the drone base in turkey, think this is true? [16:00]
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asciilifeform VariaVarietatis: how the hell would i know. [16:08]
asciilifeform 'For some reason, completely unknown to me, Xcode is ALSO tied to OSX version, For example Xcode 6.3 requires a OSX version more than Xcode 6.2, despite having no huge differentes between the two and Xcode 6.3 don't requiring any new OS capabilities that Xcode 6.2 didn't already used anyway. But every time you update OSX and Xcode, not only they sometimes explicitly require a new machine model, but they also get increasingly m [16:11]
asciilifeform ore inefficient, using more and more RAM and CPU to do the same things. Since right now, I am very low on money, this means I am stuck using Xcode 6.2, and trying to not misclick anything when I plug the testing devices and iTunes nag me to update them... because if I allow them to get updated, I will have to upgrade Xcode, OSX, and the entire machine, and right now sometimes I can't afford even food ...' [16:11]
asciilifeform ^ mega-l0l [16:11]
asciilifeform '... A physical calculator (and not a touch-screen app on a tablet) has something that the surrogate doesn't. For one thing it does not require you to do GUI context switching. It does not compete for mouse (or keyboard) with the other tens of open programs. I find this invaluable. On the other hand, touch screens take away tactile feedback. This gives the same bland taste as the soft power-off switches.' << yes! [16:14]
* asciilifeform keeps physical calculator [16:14]
shinohai I prefer physical calculators myself. Apps suck. [16:17]
asciilifeform i'm still waiting for a physical calc with hex digit keys and single-button bit operations [16:18]
asciilifeform so i can sell my antique hp16c [16:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84750 @ 0.00050961 = 43.1894 BTC [+] {4} [16:18]
asciilifeform << see thread. [16:19]
assbot Logged on 04-09-2015 03:52:50; mats: jesus the hp 16c goes for 200+ [16:19]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: that reminds me of professor who said to class, "Why the fuck does Word need 1GB of memory and we got to the moon on 12kb of RAM?" [16:26]
thestringpuller no one in the class had an answer [16:26]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: see also [16:26]
assbot Loper OS » Going Nowhere Really Fast, or How Computers Only Come in Two Speeds. ... ( ) [16:26]
thestringpuller Millions of people have been bamboozled into thinking that editing a letter in real time requires a supercomputer. << but how has the consumer been so easily bamboozled. [16:28]
thestringpuller some schmuck has to be like "This is how it is, and this is what you are to expect." for "consumers to have come to expect" [16:28]
asciilifeform because 'consumer' is not actually alive. [16:28]
asciilifeform but just this thing, like water, takes shape of container (as portrayed in old mircea_popescu article) [16:28]
thestringpuller ofc. but yet still operators today, for instance coworkers refuse to use VIM cause "hard" [16:29]
asciilifeform if it were 'use vim or stop eating' they will use vim. [16:29]
thestringpuller but yet when Atom or Sublime or other bastardized notepad explodes they complain. [16:29]
asciilifeform just as they happily used microshit [16:29]
thestringpuller I blame the web developers. Fancy CSS and prettiness > functionality [16:30]
asciilifeform see also [16:30]
assbot Re: creation of lisp machine/lispOS - Naggum cll archive ... ( ) [16:30]
asciilifeform 'look at Microsoft. nobody in their right mind would want their buggy shit. what Microshit users want is something entirely separate from the products. Microshit is _not_ user-friendly, but it is marketed as user-friendly, and then other software products, far more user-friendly, are made to look as if they missed the whole point about what "user-friendly" _is_, namely to look cool in nice colors while you're crashing and des [16:31]
asciilifeform troying the disk, importing a virus from a disk, or letting Word destroy your day's work.' [16:31]
thestringpuller Meanwhile, I want to build a sane computer, but I feel it's futile because Microshit and Apple ruined everything... :( [16:33]
asciilifeform the boojum in building a sane-anything is that it will have to be financed with your lunch money. [16:34]
thestringpuller too bad the bullies shake me down for it everyday [16:34]
thestringpuller so not like I have lunch money to begin with [16:35]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al : << and when i wrote re: CLEARSIGNING IS INTRINSICALLY RETARDED BECAUSE IN-BAND did anyone listen ? [16:36]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 11:10:20; ben_vulpes: but i don't think you called out specifically that you can rewrite the whole file's line ending styles without invalidating it [16:36]
asciilifeform let's approach mathematically. with detached sig in gpg, i can sign ANY bitstring which fits in the machine. [16:36]
asciilifeform with 'clearsign' - i can only sign certain strings which don't contain the escape magicks. [16:37]
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asciilifeform and since gpg is retarded by virtue of having to ride on top of 7bit-clean turdmailz etc., it happily mutilates strings to make'em signable [16:37]
asciilifeform so you are not signing what you thought you were signing, but a transform [16:38]
asciilifeform which is unforgivable [16:38]
* TheAdversary (~adversary@unaffiliated/hasimir/bot/theadversary) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:39]
asciilifeform << see thread. [16:39]
assbot Logged on 15-08-2015 17:51:51; asciilifeform: because it doesn't belong in-band. [16:39]
punkman no reason we can't have pseudo-clearsigned, text at the top with hex escapes for unprintables, full msg+sig in lower base64 part [16:40]
asciilifeform no. [16:40]
asciilifeform because [16:40]
assbot Logged on 15-08-2015 17:56:24; asciilifeform: now you have to CARE ABOUT THE INSIDES [16:40]
asciilifeform because CAN'T PIPE THAT [16:40]
asciilifeform srslyh [16:40]
punkman huh? [16:41]
asciilifeform because if you have a magic format, suddenly you have severely circumscribed choices [16:42]
asciilifeform 1) you can no longer transmit a file of unknown length through a signing widget and sign at arbitrary moment. gotta compute the length in advance [16:43]
asciilifeform 2) now you have to care about endian - how to represent the magic length word ? [16:43]
asciilifeform 3) if your file is 7-bit clean, it WILL get mutilated somewhere from point A to point B, just about guaranteed, so whole exercise was pointless [16:44]
asciilifeform 4) you have to de-crudify a signed file before it can be used [16:44]
asciilifeform i could go on and on with the braindamage [16:44]
asciilifeform 'clearsign' kinda worked for documents intended to be STRICTLY human-readable, where newline crud doesn't have much of an impact [16:45]
asciilifeform but even there it barely worked. [16:45]
asciilifeform i've ruined hell knows how many ascii art diagrams by signing [16:45]
asciilifeform (dashes mutilated) [16:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78083 @ 0.00050135 = 39.1469 BTC [-] {3} [16:49]
asciilifeform 'clearsigning' is one of those 'dwim' retardations that folks apparently will have to burn themselves on painfully, again and again and again and again, until they finally grasp the futility [16:49]
asciilifeform there cannot be a reasonable way to do an unreasonable thing. [16:51]
punkman I don't want 'clearsigning', but if I'm gonna have ascii armored messages/sigs, might as well stick them in one blob, and an unencoded "preview" of the message can be nice to have [16:52]
asciilifeform as soon as 'nice to have' transitions into 'this does not and cannot possibly work as intended but we'll use it anyway' you open the door to perdition. [16:55]
asciilifeform and ascii-armour is an entirely distinct thing (really just 'uuencode') from 'clearsign' [16:56]
asciilifeform in that it does not pretend to be usable as-is without unpacking, [16:56]
asciilifeform AND in that it does not mutilate the payload! [16:56]
punkman aha [16:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127050 @ 0.00050687 = 64.3978 BTC [+] {4} [17:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62600 @ 0.00050263 = 31.4646 BTC [-] {2} [17:25]
mircea_popescu << the only megalol is wtf does some schmuck that can't afford food do withy computers. [17:29]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 19:08:06; asciilifeform: ^ mega-l0l [17:29]
mircea_popescu they're not for everyone, srsly now. [17:29]
punkman and he even has testing devices [17:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64673 @ 0.00050428 = 32.6133 BTC [+] [17:31]
mircea_popescu i just hope he doesn't have a girlfriend. [17:32]
mircea_popescu << dude. i am not maintaining two channels. clearsign is good specifically because it is clearsign. [17:34]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 19:32:25; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al : << and when i wrote re: CLEARSIGNING IS INTRINSICALLY RETARDED BECAUSE IN-BAND did anyone listen ? [17:34]
mircea_popescu you see me using "detached signatures" ? [17:34]
* ben_vulpes baffled that ipnohe coolie is starving somehow [17:35]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes note that often these self-misrepresented "techs" are actually 6 weeks away from the day they first heard of "that css programming language" [17:35]
mircea_popescu as illustrated by discussion of "entrepreneurs" quoted in the logs. [17:35]
ben_vulpes brief snippet sounded sorta with-it [17:37]
ben_vulpes but i was up till 5 last night, so not really applying the razor [17:38]
mircea_popescu << no. this is a color of bits issue ; i couldn't care less what the technological constraints [appear to] be. a contract is a single item, not a text and a separate signature. [17:39]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 19:47:55; asciilifeform: there cannot be a reasonable way to do an unreasonable thing. [17:39]
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ben_vulpes punkman, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: destestable though they may be for injecting state into the stateless protocol, would a single "signin" page with an assbot-style decryption of OTP that results in a session key authenticating the user to the perlwad be an improvement, and are there better solutions i'm not considering? anonymous drive-by pasting is not a better solution imho. [17:42]
mircea_popescu let's start with, "why not" [17:43]
ben_vulpes because i have no interest in building things for the mob. [17:44]
punkman ben_vulpes: perhaps issue something like "api key" to users, have a shell script to pipe things to, that sends authenticated paste request [17:44]
ben_vulpes and having a known set of users rules out a whole class of misbehaviors. [17:44]
mircea_popescu how about this : only accept gpg-encrypted communications, and only distribute the pubkey to people you like. [17:45]
ben_vulpes and redistribute whenever someone pisses in my cheerios? [17:45]
mircea_popescu something like that [17:45]
mircea_popescu not 100%, but prolly close enough [17:46]
ben_vulpes i did briefly consider letting people sub out a disposable key [17:46]
mircea_popescu you can just deed a notice, which you encrypt to everyone's key. [17:46]
ben_vulpes huh [17:47]
ben_vulpes alternatively, rotate the pubkey every day, encrypting to l2 and hosting myself. [17:48]
ben_vulpes but this is extremely inconvenient to use. [17:48]
mircea_popescu meh, i'm not downloading new pubkeys every day to use your paste thing [17:48]
mircea_popescu might do it a once a year or some shit, but that's about it. [17:48]
ben_vulpes yeeeeeah. [17:49]
mircea_popescu alternatively : everyone get a fucking blog, and in that blog have a uploads directoy, and that's fucking that. [17:49]
ben_vulpes [17:49]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 11:01:25; ben_vulpes: isn't that called a webserver? [17:49]
mircea_popescu like works [17:50]
assbot ... ( ) [17:50]
ben_vulpes that's what i've been doing, but it's not working and i'm still seeing heinous linefeed issues hamstringing and tripping up trb scouts [17:50]
mircea_popescu how's it not working ?! [17:51]
ben_vulpes plus every irc community evolves until it has its own pastebin or how did that old saw go [17:51]
ben_vulpes people are still using motherfucking dpaste! [17:51]
ben_vulpes and miscellaneous other pasteshites who shit crlfs and waste precious trb time [17:52]
mircea_popescu ... [17:52]
mircea_popescu the idea was, get a blog, use that. [17:52]
mircea_popescu how is this related to the above ? [17:52]
ben_vulpes people aren't getting blogs and using them. [17:52]
ben_vulpes i'm not saying that they won't, i'm say that nobody appears to actually be doing so. [17:53]
mircea_popescu i think i've done so a few times, actually. [17:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00050493 = 26.6603 BTC [+] [17:54]
mircea_popescu but in fairness, this is just another facet of the monolithic usg-slavery-thoughtpattern. living in the states is good enoughy for me ; i don't really need a blog and it's not THE central, defining thing of my current existence ; on it goes. [17:54]
mircea_popescu there's little technological solutions to psychological problems. [17:54]
ben_vulpes from pasteshite design to "all you-sians are congenitally retarded" in less than 50 lines. [17:57]
ben_vulpes merry cribmusk. [17:57]
mircea_popescu lol. [17:57]
mircea_popescu ty, i try! [17:57]
ben_vulpes useles, you are! [17:57]
* ben_vulpes chuckles [17:58]
mircea_popescu wut! [17:58]
ben_vulpes "i don't solve problems, i just make them" [17:58]
mircea_popescu i didn't even make one this time! [17:58]
mircea_popescu in unrelated news, i go out buy a bag of dice. these idiots used blue and red for the paint on the faces. guess what numbers are red and what numbers are blue ? [17:59]
ben_vulpes right right, just gleefully abstaining from helping lol [17:59]
ben_vulpes primes and not? [17:59]
mircea_popescu 1 and 4 are red. rest blue. [17:59]
* ben_vulpes blinks [18:00]
mircea_popescu not you know, fucking odds and evens. not you know, fucking 1,2,3 vs 4,5,6 [18:00]
ben_vulpes what [18:00]
mircea_popescu it's almost as if argentina made these. [18:00]
ben_vulpes well no it wouldn't be sensible things [18:00]
ben_vulpes aight but before we go haring off completely is there an argument to be made in favor of wotmembers signing authentication tokens over decrypting authentication tokens? [18:01]
mircea_popescu anyway, back to the dpaste : im not abstaining from helping or anything of the sort. there's been an idea, it's been trashing around in the b-a uterus trying to come to conception. it doesn't seem that it actually works tho, seems more like an irrealisable chimera of disparate, irreconcilable parts. [18:01]
mircea_popescu the correct solution also seems to have emerged, how's any of this my fault. [18:01]
mircea_popescu i don't think i want an authenticated dpaste, myself. [18:02]
mircea_popescu for the stated reason : for the same money i just use my blog to host the file [18:02]
mircea_popescu which is specifically what i said above : there will exist EXACTLY ONE place i authenticate at ; the name for that place is "my blog" [18:03]
mircea_popescu not fucking facebook. not anything else. [18:03]
mircea_popescu this is fundamental and fundamentally important. if you wish to be a person, you gotta maintain this level of control. [18:03]
ben_vulpes incl assbot [18:03]
mircea_popescu not a bad counterexample. [18:04]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu proposes to manage dns without authentication? is this like the mythical bezzlebroker who only communicates in gpggrams with $maxint clients? [18:04]
mircea_popescu i propose to not manage dns at all, and not have dns, either. [18:05]
ben_vulpes if so i would like an introduction to this registrar, they sound like good people to know [18:05]
mircea_popescu you know, giving examples of broken shit is not necessarily an effectual way to argue in favour of said shit. [18:05]
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mircea_popescu i like registrars like i like microsoft. [18:05]
ben_vulpes yes well clearly when we actually have gossipd auth i can wash my hands of auth too. [18:05]
mircea_popescu aha. [18:06]
ben_vulpes so riddle me this: why the everloving fuck *should* i make any tool usable for anyone outside of my wot? [18:06]
mircea_popescu still, you know, think about what this is. you're proposing to give people a modicum of webspace in some narrow constraints. [18:06]
mircea_popescu because why the fuck, 10 bucks a month is too much for these people to get a fucking blog up ? [18:07]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i do not think you should. [18:07]
mircea_popescu bear in mind however that ... how are women that you've not fucked before going to find you ? [18:08]
ben_vulpes isn't the classic answer 'the other gurlz'? [18:08]
mircea_popescu aha. [18:08]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i do not think you should. ! [18:09]
ben_vulpes well then what precisely were you proposing? [18:09]
* airgapped has quit (Client Quit) [18:09]
jurov he proposed for everyone to have own webspace, no? [18:11]
mircea_popescu that you're trying to sell webspace on a below-shared server level and by the kilobyte like some sort of idiot. either get into the business by running an actual isp or else let people do the thing sanely on their own. [18:11]
mircea_popescu in short, i wisened up to the fact that this particular thing is of the "go big or go home" variety and insistence on peculiar versions of small are a waste of time. [18:12]
ben_vulpes (tangentially related [18:12]
assbot Nothing found for Blog Wp-content Uploads 2015 12 Vinyll Png) ... ( ) [18:12]
mircea_popescu bullshit. it was, at the time, incredibly cheap and convenient. [18:13]
ben_vulpes not selling, really. more of a toy for phriendz [18:13]
mircea_popescu if you have friends who need a prepackaged version of a $10 item you apparently need better friends. [18:14]
mircea_popescu either that or befriending more adults, i guess. [18:14]
ben_vulpes nobody 'needs' a toy. [18:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16825 @ 0.00050493 = 8.4954 BTC [+] [18:16]
ben_vulpes << in which the department of statistics completely forgets about the challenges of untangling correlation from causation [18:17]
assbot Obama’s effort to ‘nudge’ America ... ( ) [18:17]
mircea_popescu lol [18:17]
ben_vulpes "The results: about 9 percent more poor students matriculated." << how would you know it's attributable to your work? [18:17]
jurov ben_vulpes: i'd say you are going at it in wrong direction [18:17]
ben_vulpes "but it still led to a $1.59 million increase in fees in one quarter" << how do you knoooow [18:17]
ben_vulpes try me, jurov. what's a better direction? [18:18]
jurov maybe i'll act on it myself, so i won't say now. but it's quite obvious. [18:19]
mircea_popescu lol the cutthroat pastecompetition [18:20]
ben_vulpes if you want it, take it! [18:20]
ben_vulpes all i want is a prophylactic against crlfs. [18:20]
ben_vulpes everything else is ego and vanity [18:20]
jurov oooooh. i wanted to see your megasuperdevstack in action, tho [18:20]
ben_vulpes no js in this thing. [18:21]
ben_vulpes no js in tmsr~! [18:21]
mircea_popescu your life's work is not welcome here! [18:21]
ben_vulpes megasuperdevstack only makes sense in context of insane complexity of ui development, jurov. [18:22]
mircea_popescu this is really not a bad motto for b-a ; the funny thing for me is how varied the reaction of people is as they encounter it in practice. [18:22]
jurov :) [18:22]
ben_vulpes tmsr~ needs ui like it needs people who need ui. [18:22]
mircea_popescu you know that ~ makes sense only if it's b,tmsr~ [18:22]
* ben_vulpes sighs [18:22]
mircea_popescu otherwise it's like "the The Bank" [18:23]
ben_vulpes yes boss [18:23]
ben_vulpes (what else would it be the most serene republic of, though?) [18:23]
mircea_popescu ~ is not "of" [18:23]
ben_vulpes ack [18:24]
mircea_popescu ~ in this context is an interesting thing : a postprocessor directive meaning "take the string before the first comma and put it in here to reconstruct the correct title of this item". so that "Fanny Fucksticks, The Enchanted Travels Of ~" becomes "The Enchanted Travels Of Fanny Fucksticks". [18:25]
mircea_popescu the reason for this is that so many titles start with The in english that it debalanced the sorting tree (implemented in nature as shelves) [18:26]
mircea_popescu this ties into the discussion about nazis and their de-facto paper-processing computing [18:26]
mircea_popescu ie [18:26]
assbot Logged on 24-12-2015 19:32:46; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other gestapo did not suffer from delusions of machine learning!1111111111 to help them process somehow infinite tips into an edible portion [18:26]
mircea_popescu in fact, machine learning is older than automatons. [18:26]
ben_vulpes (it is the root of cognition, no?) "usually this makes the food happen" [18:27]
mircea_popescu kinda why i stuck it in there - bitcoin has deeper roots than commonly realised. [18:27]
ben_vulpes anyways jurov if i had an inkling that someone would do it besides myself i'd not have done it in the first place. if you want the thing on your plate, lmk, otherwise if you have an obvious solution you're not holding out for paste-opoly also let me know. [18:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35378 @ 0.00050428 = 17.8404 BTC [-] {2} [18:29]
jurov heh, not like pastebin is some crucial piece [18:30]
ben_vulpes which is why i think it should be hammered out and left alone at the earliest possible moment. [18:32]
mircea_popescu tru [18:32]
mircea_popescu thinking about it : the one thing i like about dpaste in preference of uploading files is that i don't have to provide a filename. [18:33]
mircea_popescu or, more generally : that it's like clearisgn and not like detached signature. [18:33]
ben_vulpes (it's just a fucking latrine that needs digging) [18:35]
mircea_popescu the thing i fucking hate about dpaste is the dumbass "select data type" and that they think text is "plain text" and starts with a p. [18:36]
ben_vulpes mhm [18:36]
jurov i'm not hellbound to having it. my idea was to accept anything, signed or not, make it available for a week, and put older pastes behind a paywall [18:38]
jurov i suspect ben_vulpes is not up for that kind of latrine anyway :D [18:39]
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mircea_popescu ahahaha paywall dpaste [18:41]
mircea_popescu how to cheaply and efficiently ensure the ire of people in the wot : charge them for their own shit. [18:41]
ben_vulpes jurov: why'd i not be? [18:42]
jurov just guessing [18:42]
jurov it needs more attention than fire and forget [18:42]
ben_vulpes zing [18:42]
mircea_popescu "We received conflicting advice from lots of smart people about which is more important. We focused on engagement, which we improved by orders of magnitude. No one cared." [18:49]
mircea_popescu check it out, "engagement" went up by 9% / 1.59 mn in one quarter. [18:50]
mircea_popescu how THE FUCK do you increase engagement and no one cares. [18:50]
mircea_popescu Title: How My Startup Failed Product: Condom Key Chains [18:53]
mircea_popescu "today in Cheez Today" [18:54]
mircea_popescu ~ [18:55]
mircea_popescu "And this worked really well for foursquare thanks to the mayorship. If I tell someone I’m the mayor of a spot, I’m in an instant conversation: “What makes you the mayor?” “That’s lame, I’m there way more than you” “What do you get for being mayor?”. Compare that to talking about Gowalla: “I just swapped this sticker of a bike for a sticker of a six pack of beer! What? Yes, I am still a virgin”. [18:55]
mircea_popescu See the difference? Make some aspect of your product easy and fun to talk about, and make it unique." [18:55]
mircea_popescu that's exactly not it. the difference is that the former STOLE something. a little bit of something, and something that wasn't well bolted down by a legal process. 300 years ago you'd go to jail for pretending to be the mayor ; even today you can go to jail for pretending to be a cop. [18:56]
mircea_popescu that's mostly what these things peddle : a particular sort of theft. [18:56]
mircea_popescu also why they're fundamentally worthless. [18:56]
* justanotherelf (~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:13]
mircea_popescu [19:15]
assbot ... ( ) [19:15]
mircea_popescu sauce pretty lulzy too [19:15]
assbot It's Not OK, OkCupid ... ( ) [19:15]
asciilifeform << 'v' lives and dies by detached signatures. and i'm not implementing payload mutilation in 'p.' and i won't be using anything that mutilates payloads if i can help it, ever. [19:32]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 20:31:04; mircea_popescu: you see me using "detached signatures" ? [19:32]
* Peter_Geschel has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [19:32]
asciilifeform 'clearsign' of whatever scheme for machine-readable data suxx. [19:32]
asciilifeform for entirely fundamental reasons,. [19:32]
asciilifeform << if you must have one file, gpg --armour it. or tar it. whatever. [19:33]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 20:35:32; mircea_popescu: << no. this is a color of bits issue ; i couldn't care less what the technological constraints [appear to] be. a contract is a single item, not a text and a separate signature. [19:33]
asciilifeform but can we have a final bullet in the head of ascii mutilation and magical dashes ? [19:33]
mircea_popescu there's nothing wrong with v as is. [19:34]
mircea_popescu but a gpg would-be replacement that doesn't have clearsign is not actually usable as a replacement [19:34]
asciilifeform << not for any of my use cases. i wanna paste from a shell without unsheathing my pgptron [19:34]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 20:38:47; ben_vulpes: punkman, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: destestable though they may be for injecting state into the stateless protocol, would a single "signin" page with an assbot-style decryption of OTP that results in a session key authenticating the user to the perlwad be an improvement, and are there better solutions i'm not considering? anonymous drive-by pasting is not a better solution imho. [19:34]
asciilifeform and i don't see any reason to sign a disposable, ephemeral turd. [19:34]
asciilifeform i don't sign my farts either. [19:34]
asciilifeform << this works until usg or even a demented sysop is involved: you can derive pubkey from ciphertext [19:35]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 20:41:26; mircea_popescu: how about this : only accept gpg-encrypted communications, and only distribute the pubkey to people you like. [19:35]
mircea_popescu so i said. [19:35]
asciilifeform << it is worth thinking about ~why~ folks - including even mircea_popescu, yes - actually use pastebinatrons [19:38]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 21:08:22; mircea_popescu: in short, i wisened up to the fact that this particular thing is of the "go big or go home" variety and insistence on peculiar versions of small are a waste of time. [19:38]
mircea_popescu honestly, i started using it in b-a. it is, for me, a replacement of email. [19:40]
asciilifeform << or log in, or motherfucking decrypt anything, or hit more than one button !!1111 [19:40]
assbot Logged on 25-12-2015 21:29:42; mircea_popescu: thinking about it : the one thing i like about dpaste in preference of uploading files is that i don't have to provide a filename. [19:40]
mircea_popescu aha. [19:40]
asciilifeform what's wrong with tar as a 'clearsign' bottle ? [19:42]
mircea_popescu i can't read tar. [19:43]
asciilifeform sure you can [19:43]
mircea_popescu ... [19:43]
asciilifeform don't take my word for it. go dump a tar of ascii text to console [19:43]
asciilifeform perfectly readable. [19:43]
mircea_popescu you understand, i hope you do but if you don't i'll explain it, that the only - THE ONLY - reason for literacy is so you can read contracts. [19:43]
mircea_popescu if it were the case that contracts came in '|tar bottles" reading plain english would be as useful as reading latin. [19:43]
mircea_popescu and literacy would be defined as "reading tar" [19:44]
mircea_popescu do you ? [19:44]
asciilifeform literacy is already defined as 'reading this set of hieroglyphs' [19:44]
mircea_popescu so your idea of a working gpg is "everyone must learn new alphabet now" ? [19:44]
asciilifeform mno [19:44]
mircea_popescu it'd better not be. [19:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79000 @ 0.00050428 = 39.8381 BTC [-] [19:47]
* Peter_Geschel (~Peter_Ges@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:52]
mircea_popescu why the everloving fuck is sed -n '//start//,/end/p' dump out the whole pipe instead of just the stuff between /start/ and end ? [19:53]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: why did you escape out the fwdslashes ? [19:59]
asciilifeform sed -n '/start/,/end/p' [20:00]
mircea_popescu i want it to match /start/ not start [20:00]
asciilifeform Ah [20:00]
mircea_popescu "for the obvious reason" [20:00]
mircea_popescu the #1 most frustrating thing known to man is when computers don't do what you expect them to do. [20:00]
mircea_popescu somehow more annoying than when women don't. [20:00]
* asciilifeform mildly horrified that mircea_popescu found himself doing this [20:01]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i gotta keep up with you young folk! [20:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32728 @ 0.00050512 = 16.5316 BTC [+] {3} [20:01]
mircea_popescu what am i to be like one of those us military base commanders that can't run a quarter mile ? [20:01]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: would you accept use of a token in headers for use from cli? [20:06]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: wai wat [20:06]
asciilifeform i don't want to replace my toilet with an authenticated one, either, y'know ? [20:07]
asciilifeform i don't want to need to imprint turds with a seal before flushing. [20:07]
ben_vulpes that i understand. [20:08]
asciilifeform or sign every scrap of paper i put in the shredder [20:08]
ben_vulpes yes yes yes you drama queen [20:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53800 @ 0.00050366 = 27.0969 BTC [-] {4} [20:08]
ben_vulpes i am just looking for a sane balance between toilet for the mob and useful tool for the wot. [20:09]
* Peter_Geschel has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [20:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85650 @ 0.00050273 = 43.0588 BTC [-] {3} [20:11]
ben_vulpes trinque suggested not-trivially-enumerable endpoints for wotmembers, eg engage in a brief gpggram session one time, yields a wotpaste/my-difficult-to-enumerate-endpoint place for individuals to post textwads to [20:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20435 @ 0.00050263 = 10.2712 BTC [-] {2} [20:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73265 @ 0.00050123 = 36.7226 BTC [-] {2} [20:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sed -n '//start//,//end//p' will work, but it prints crud prior to start or after end ~if on same line~ [20:13]
asciilifeform and what's more, afaik you cannot get around this in gnu sed. [20:13]
asciilifeform gotta use awk (or, horror, perl) [20:14]
asciilifeform because, again, the whole 'plain text' jwzism and the attendant retardation. somehow 'lines' are a thing. [20:14]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: part of the appeal of running a 'pastebin' ~is~ the crud dropped in by the mob. for instance, there is a long tradition of dropping 0days and leaked misc crud on pastebin. [20:19]
asciilifeform and i still insist that the 'clearness' of 'clearsign' is a jwzism. NO YOU CAN'T actually read the payload 'without tools'. yes, you can put it to a line printer, and get a human-readable page. BUT it will not be WHAT YOU SIGNED! not bitwise, and not mandatorily, and therefore not at all. [20:20]
asciilifeform you still need a computer to read 'plain ascii' [20:21]
asciilifeform and we still don't have agreement - yes, even among unixlines - how to actually display 'plain text' [20:21]
asciilifeform or how to process it consistently [20:21]
asciilifeform *unixlikes [20:21]
asciilifeform this whole discussion, every time we have it, really mirrors in my mind the debates i've had with greyhaired non-programming folk who insisted on 'one day we will program in NATURAL LANGUAGE!11111' [20:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87100 @ 0.00050593 = 44.0665 BTC [+] {4} [20:30]
mircea_popescu oook, anyone wanna guess what this does : [20:33]
mircea_popescu cat fucksticks.txt | sort -u | while read line; do curl -A "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/20.0" --cookie "session=185406475447611750%3a13562327112394530656;secure_check=1;authlink=8e9808c6;__cfduid=de2158114156a0b38260969e145b2ca9e1450046931" "$line" | sed 's/profile_similar/

/g' | sed 's/href/

/g' | grep 'cf=' | grep "/profile/" | sed 's/="

mircea_popescu /profile///g' | sed 's/?cf=//g' >> fucksticks. [20:33]
mircea_popescu more importantly, anyone bored can kill themselves figuring out why the fuck i have to do two passes of sed interspersed with a grep to get the dumbass thing to work as intended. [20:34]
asciilifeform ugh [20:35]
mircea_popescu aha! [20:36]
mircea_popescu this is what programming is. fucking tarpit. [20:36]
mircea_popescu and you want me to read more tar ? [20:36]
asciilifeform in the same spirit, have another!: [20:36]
asciilifeform [20:37]
assbot ... ( ) [20:37]
assbot ... ( ) [20:37]
asciilifeform prints same with 'cat' [20:37]
asciilifeform entirely different contents. [20:37]
* mircea_popescu looks [20:37]
asciilifeform not mega-trick. but works. [20:37]
asciilifeform granted, hex editor will show you immediately why. but the 'plain text is readable without tools' illusion is - just that [20:38]
mircea_popescu a yea, iirc we even had a discussion about scripts doing ^H etc here, with a link and everything. [20:38]
asciilifeform possibly [20:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22982 @ 0.00051011 = 11.7233 BTC [+] {3} [20:39]
mircea_popescu note however that you can't rely on me reading the "clearsigned" thing with any particular mechanism. [20:40]
mircea_popescu for all you know i do read it in a byte editor. [20:40]
asciilifeform aha [20:41]
asciilifeform at which point the supposed advantage of the 'plainness' is nowhere to be found [20:41]
mircea_popescu so this entire "unix terminal is retarded" thing isn't as much of a concern [20:41]
mircea_popescu how so ? [20:41]
* DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( )) [20:42]
asciilifeform because if you want to avoid 'malleability', now you have to actually use a tool that shows you the bytes. [20:42]
asciilifeform incl. the nonprintable ones. [20:42]
mircea_popescu ideally, clearsign would reject anything but ascii. [20:44]
asciilifeform well, it'd necessarily have to be more narrow than ascii [20:44]
mircea_popescu "these are your father's letters" [20:44]
asciilifeform (in having magical words) [20:44]
mircea_popescu hm ? [20:44]
asciilifeform either the start/end marker (as in traditional gpg) or length offset marker (as somebody suggested here) [20:45]
asciilifeform but in no case could i be ~guaranteed~ of signing an arbitrary ascii string without mutilation [20:45]
mircea_popescu - is not ascii [20:45]
asciilifeform sure as fuck is [20:45]
asciilifeform unless they have a different character set on mars, also called ascii, where - is not 45 [20:46]
mircea_popescu to put it sanely-er : i'm more than happy to redefine "ascii" for clearsign to include a subset of ascii [20:46]
asciilifeform telex! [20:46]
mircea_popescu quite [20:46]
* justanotherelf has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [20:46]
mircea_popescu i lived just fine with telex. [20:46]
* asciilifeform looks forward to using mircea_popescu's p-block for telex clearsigs. [20:47]
asciilifeform in fact, whole point of 'p' originally in my head was so that mircea_popescu could have these. [20:47]
mircea_popescu honestly, in my mind i realise now, gpg --clearisng has taken over a hole left by telex. [20:47]
mircea_popescu quite exactly. [20:47]
mircea_popescu ha! [20:47]
asciilifeform << for n00bz [20:48]
assbot Cheshire's Introduction to Telex ... ( ) [20:48]
asciilifeform << moar. [20:50]
assbot Baudot Character Code Reference ... ( ) [20:50]
mircea_popescu some telex machines were distinctive enough that after years one could really tell wtf the message says from across the room [20:51]
mircea_popescu sorta between morse and slow modem [20:51]
asciilifeform mechanized morse really [20:51]
mircea_popescu pretty much [20:52]
mircea_popescu "fire lizzie, too many holes" [20:52]
asciilifeform ;;later tell BingoBoingo is anybody gonna qntra the juniper crud ? [20:56]
gribble The operation succeeded. [20:56]
asciilifeform in other nyooz, [20:57]
asciilifeform 'The Committee supports substantially enhancing and expediting efforts to deter the insider threat and believes doing so will require an integrated counterintelligence and security apparatus that spans the IC and the U.S. Government. Additionally, the Committee believes the IC's information technology modernization effort--the IC Information Technology Enterprise--must provide the infrastructure to detect insider threats earli [20:58]
asciilifeform er, more effectively, and more reliably. (See page 24 for more information on the IC Information Technology Enterprise, otherwise known as ``IC ITE.'') Robust counterintelligence data and analytic tools to monitor, analyze, and audit personnel behavior will be critical to this endeavor.' [20:58]
asciilifeform can't wait for the politruks ! [20:58]
mircea_popescu mmmkay... [20:59]
asciilifeform << german leaflet [21:00]
assbot ... ( ) [21:00]
asciilifeform << same [21:01]
assbot ... ( ) [21:01]
asciilifeform << ditto [21:01]
assbot ... ( ) [21:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22600 @ 0.00050123 = 11.3278 BTC [-] {2} [21:06]
* okcupidslut (94fc74e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:07]
mircea_popescu !up okcupidslut [21:07]
-assbot- You voiced okcupidslut for 30 minutes. [21:07]
* assbot gives voice to okcupidslut [21:07]
okcupidslut hey mircea_popescu is still open ? [21:07]
assbot I'll pay for your tits on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [21:07]
mircea_popescu aha. [21:07]
mircea_popescu put 94fc74e8 on yer maidenly bosom. [21:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141100 @ 0.00050046 = 70.6149 BTC [-] {3} [21:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70193 @ 0.00049984 = 35.0853 BTC [-] {4} [21:09]
* Peter_Geschel (~Peter_Ges@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:17]
okcupidslut [21:22]
assbot ... ( ) [21:22]
mircea_popescu ahahaha that's some rearview mirror work okcupidslut [21:22]
asciilifeform what is this headless chimera. [21:22]
mircea_popescu the problem is you dun seem to have a head ? [21:23]
asciilifeform marie antoinette. [21:23]
shinohai kek [21:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4769 @ 0.00049968 = 2.383 BTC [-] {2} [21:23]
okcupidslut ehh, but my face looks like it got hit by a car atm. Aint nothing pretty about that. [21:24]
mircea_popescu makes no diff. [21:24]
mircea_popescu the problem with headless pics is that well... they'll just get reused later by $randomscammer$ [21:24]
mircea_popescu how did that line go... #bitcoin-assets is about truth not necessarily beauty. [21:24]
okcupidslut ahah, give me some minutes then. [21:25]
* mircea_popescu gives [21:25]
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* samO has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [21:31]
* justanotherelf (~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:37]
* assbot removes voice from okcupidslut [21:38]
mircea_popescu !up okcupidslut [21:38]
-assbot- You voiced okcupidslut for 30 minutes. [21:38]
* assbot gives voice to okcupidslut [21:38]
* okcupidslut has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [21:38]
* okcupidslut_ (94fc74e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:38]
mircea_popescu !up okcupidslut [21:40]
-assbot- You voiced okcupidslut for 30 minutes. [21:40]
* okcupidslut (94fc74e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:41]
mircea_popescu lmao [21:41]
mircea_popescu !up okcupidslut [21:41]
-assbot- You voiced okcupidslut for another 30 minutes. [21:41]
* assbot gives voice to okcupidslut [21:41]
mircea_popescu dat nordic system and its accomplishments! [21:42]
okcupidslut [21:42]
assbot ... ( ) [21:42]
mircea_popescu cute. address ? [21:42]
* okcupidslut_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [21:42]
shinohai She left. Free tits! [21:43]
mircea_popescu lol nah. [21:43]
thestringpuller is the ddos machine on or something? [21:43]
mircea_popescu no, just, everyone in norway's got their ac on so the power grid goes out. [21:43]
asciilifeform achtung, panzers! [21:44]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: [21:44]
asciilifeform [21:44]
assbot [BTC-dev] AWS Banhammer ... ( ) [21:44]
mircea_popescu okcupidslut what's your bitcoin address ? [21:44]
ben_vulpes achtung achtung [21:44]
mircea_popescu nice alfie. [21:45]
shinohai ty asciilifeform [21:45]
okcupidslut 18gA2wFgQzn4ZG397PakxRoYEwktZ28uFz [21:47]
mircea_popescu emjoy! [21:48]
thestringpuller why all the hate on AWS? [21:48]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: [21:48]
assbot Logged on 23-12-2015 02:56:57; asciilifeform: incidentally, zoolag is under heavy and modestly-clever ddos [21:48]
asciilifeform this plus the fact that there is no meaningful collateral damage [21:48]
asciilifeform because a 'cloud' node is a pseudonode. [21:48]
thestringpuller and a node run on hardware in a datacenter is not? [21:49]
asciilifeform not normally, no. [21:49]
ben_vulpes and you propose to identify all such virtualized nodes somehow? [21:49]
ben_vulpes what next, rackspace? [21:50]
mircea_popescu no, he just proposes to whack some more obvious ones. [21:50]
ben_vulpes "enumerating badness" [21:50]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: by no means. but why permit known and exhaustively-catalogued rubbish ? [21:50]
asciilifeform presently it is the most pestilential variety of rubbish [21:50]
asciilifeform on account of the 'easy & cheap' [21:50]
thestringpuller easy yes, cheap no. [21:50]
ben_vulpes notrly the latter. [21:50]
mircea_popescu i actually support throwing a spoke or three in the expectation of jwz that "struff works" [21:50]
asciilifeform when rackspace starts handing out vm to reddit k00l d00dz for a penny/hour, i'll ban it. [21:50]
mircea_popescu a lot more of this "oh, you're on aws ? well... you can't do X" stuff is sorely needed. [21:51]
asciilifeform ^^^ [21:51]
mircea_popescu time to turn the tables on the golum. [21:51]
mircea_popescu or as that kid aptly said (in american history X), "on the internet, YOU'RE the nigger." [21:51]
thestringpuller didn't that kid end up getting shot/stabbed in the bathroom? [21:52]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the correct 'non-enumerative badness' expression is, ultimately, 'don't give cpu cycles out to all-comers' [21:52]
asciilifeform but we aren't there yet. [21:52]
thestringpuller well i guess I'm moving my nodes to google cloud [21:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65800 @ 0.0005093 = 33.5119 BTC [+] {3} [21:54]
mircea_popescu haha were you on aws ? [21:54]
thestringpuller one of my nodes was. [21:54]
thestringpuller well the "working" one. [21:54]
mircea_popescu honestly, you're better off getting a decent server you actually control for your node than getting a bunch of aws/such crap [21:55]
thestringpuller I have one in my basement. [21:55]
thestringpuller But it's being obstinent right now. [21:55]
thestringpuller I attempted to create an insane robot, and I succeeded. [21:56]
mircea_popescu hey, some people gotta get married for that. [21:57]
asciilifeform aws ban hammer enabled on all 3 of my nodez now. [21:58]
asciilifeform oh! [22:02]
asciilifeform and! [22:02]
asciilifeform doing this will keep the turd nodez out of the addr.db [22:02]
asciilifeform and has effect beyond one particular node. [22:03]
asciilifeform isolate the idiots, when they do the kindness of making this so convenient. [22:03]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell BingoBoingo is anybody gonna qntra the juniper crud ? << If they want to. I dunno if I can do it justice. [22:04]
asciilifeform << looks like like... moiety [22:05]
assbot ... ( ) [22:05]
asciilifeform and does that count as a legible string ? [22:05]
mircea_popescu not all kittens are the same kitten alfie! [22:05]
mircea_popescu there's a sack fulla kittens out there. [22:05]
asciilifeform 'in the dark, all cats are black' (tm) (r) [22:05]
asciilifeform and, apparently, through chinese 320x200 cam also.. [22:06]
* okcupidslut has quit (Quit: Page closed) [22:06]
BingoBoingo doing this will keep the turd nodez out of the addr.db << Apparently is too good for aws doing this will keep the turd nodez out of the addr.db [22:10]
BingoBoingo [22:10]
assbot Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( ) [22:10]
BingoBoingo loller [22:11]
assbot BTCC Deploys 100 Full Bitcoin Nodes Across Five Continents | Virtual-Strategy Magazine ... ( ) [22:11]
shinohai lmao 263 XT nodez [22:11]
BingoBoingo on [22:12]
assbot Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( ) [22:12]
BingoBoingo AWS!!! [22:12]
thestringpuller 'in the dark, all cats are black' (tm) (r) << or as the negros sometime say. All pussy feels the same with the lights out. [22:14]
asciilifeform dns seeds << l0l [22:20]
* BingoBoingo going to have to try translating asciilifeform's AWS block rules to pf [22:21]
BingoBoingo brb, meeting [22:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41800 @ 0.00051015 = 21.3243 BTC [+] [22:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39538 @ 0.00051015 = 20.1703 BTC [+] [22:45]
asciilifeform kakobrekla et al: zoolag will be going down for ssd upgrade starting now and ending with a few hrs later [23:02]
kakobrekla cool [23:03]
* linton_s_dawson has quit (Quit: Leaving.) [23:08]
asciilifeform << somehow i missed this [23:15]
mircea_popescu << this goes straight to BingoBoingo [23:16]
assbot It's Not OK, OkCupid • I just hope my fetish with cheese does not disturb... ... ( ) [23:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66750 @ 0.00051015 = 34.0525 BTC [+] [23:20]
* asciilifeform looks at shelf, misreads 'applied cryptography' as 'applied coprophagy' [23:21]
mircea_popescu your shelf's fulla shit [23:22]
asciilifeform 'tis so. [23:22]
asciilifeform there's mebbe half a tonne of horror show in 3-rings just in this room [23:23]
asciilifeform e.g. a '90s xerox of the complete works of trofim denisovich lysenko. [23:24]
mircea_popescu ahahah but why [23:24]
asciilifeform because haven't thrown it out yet ? [23:25]
asciilifeform why else. [23:25]
mircea_popescu aha [23:25]
* [KS] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [23:55]
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