Forum logs for 24 Nov 2012

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4820 @ 0.00050703 = 2.4439 BTC [+] [00:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21280 @ 0.00051153 = 10.8854 BTC [+] [00:02]
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PsychoticBoy http://www.encyclopediabitcoinica.com/wiki/GIGAMINING [00:06]
smickles "I wrote earlier “That characteristic being that early adopters are benifited greater than the latecomers. But this can be said of any appreciating asset.” in reference to the only submitted evidence for Bitcoin being anything near a ponzi scheme in the statements citations. [00:09]
smickles If it can be said about any appreciating asset, how is it noteworthy?" [00:09]
smickles "And how do you expect anyone to find a reliable source pointing this out about the vast majority of appreciating assets?" [00:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00049846 = 7.6015 BTC [-] [00:11]
smickles srsly [00:11]
mircea_popescu http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/what-are-the-bitcoin-market-drivers/ [00:11]
mircea_popescu if anyone is curious [00:11]
smickles SudoGhost (as expected) ignoring the point of my comment [00:12]
mircea_popescu smickles i'd guess it's anywhere from free to 50 or so euros here [00:13]
smickles to notarize? [00:14]
smickles 50 euro must get you a hight quality stamp impression from the notary [00:14]
mircea_popescu yep [00:15]
mircea_popescu one of those hologram things [00:15]
smickles nifty [00:15]
smickles I can't imagine this giga issue would require anything above the 'inked rubber stamp' variety tho [00:16]
mircea_popescu yeah. [00:16]
mircea_popescu still, if you own < 5 bonds or so [00:16]
smickles if you only have 5 bonds then the effort to maintain a secure wallet is a higher cost than the value of the bonds [00:18]
mircea_popescu i saw someone publish a list [00:19]
mircea_popescu > 70% of it was 1 and 2 bonds [00:19]
mircea_popescu they were .3 nominal bonds too, not 1.0 like giga's. [00:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.0005091 = 4.8619 BTC [+] [00:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25250 @ 0.00050971 = 12.8702 BTC [+] [00:32]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42550 @ 0.00050389 = 21.4405 BTC [-] [00:34]
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* Disconnected (No route to host). [00:58]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [00:59]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: Bitcoin asset exchanges: http://polimedia.us/mpex || https://coinbr.com || https://cryptostocks.com || https://icbit.se || https://therocktrading.com || https://assets-otc.com || https://www.havelockinvestments.com || list bot commands: !help || Streaming trades only: #bitcoin-assets-trades || Net Chart: http://bit.ly/RPclBi [00:59]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~T42@89-212-41-49.static.t-2.net at Thu Nov 8 15:00:02 2012 [00:59]
-NickServ- You failed to identify in time for the nickname mircea_popescu [00:59]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [01:05]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: Bitcoin asset exchanges: http://polimedia.us/mpex || https://coinbr.com || https://cryptostocks.com || https://icbit.se || https://therocktrading.com || https://assets-otc.com || https://www.havelockinvestments.com || list bot commands: !help || Streaming trades only: #bitcoin-assets-trades || Net Chart: http://bit.ly/RPclBi [01:05]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~T42@89-212-41-49.static.t-2.net at Thu Nov 8 15:00:02 2012 [01:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10008 @ 0.00050845 = 5.0886 BTC [-] [01:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00051318 = 15.498 BTC [+] [01:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17342 @ 0.00050962 = 8.8378 BTC [-] [01:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4908 @ 0.00050703 = 2.4885 BTC [-] [01:16]
dub fishgame jumped the shark eh? [01:16]
* dub rimshot [01:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10498 @ 0.00050703 = 5.3228 BTC [-] [01:23]
mircea_popescu lol [01:25]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1630 @ 0.00325681 = 5.3086 BTC [+] [01:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 5200 @ 0.00328979 = 17.1069 BTC [+] [01:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 170 @ 0.00334934 = 0.5694 BTC [+] [01:28]
smickles :o [01:28]
smickles so close [01:28]
smickles …to mr voorhees getting more btc 'in his pockt' [01:29]
mircea_popescu https://therocktrading.com/en/exchange/stock [01:32]
mircea_popescu check out the 24 hour volumes on the right [01:33]
smickles ouch [01:33]
smickles 219 btc last year too [01:34]
mircea_popescu i wasn't even aware they existed last year. [01:34]
mircea_popescu seems improbably [01:34]
smickles it probably is ment as a rolling 365 days [01:34]
smickles improperly labeled [01:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12489 @ 0.00050389 = 6.2931 BTC [-] [01:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19861 @ 0.00050278 = 9.9857 BTC [-] [01:36]
smickles "While it has been said that the ECB report doesn't deny or disprove that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, it doesn't accuse it of being a Ponzi either. The Reuters source is just a headline (as far as it saying anyone even mentions Ponzi and Bitcoin in the same sentence). Headlines are often written by people other than the article's author for the purpose of attracting eyeballs, not communicating relevant information. The other citation (currently us [01:36]
mircea_popescu Born in 2007 as a Second Life insurance company, The Rock has evolved in a full featured virtual financial institution. Based in US, founded by EU citizens, run by long-standing virtual experts. [01:36]
mircea_popescu i guess they're mostly linden [01:36]
smickles since 2007, that's decent [01:36]
smickles Based in US, founded by EU citizens, << dam ferriners [01:36]
smickles lol [01:37]
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mircea_popescu ftr, the entire "blogs are not a source" like of wikipedia, while they take utter junk such as news sites into account... [01:40]
mircea_popescu i've never heard of anything more ridiculous. [01:40]
mircea_popescu there's no newspaper in the world that can compete with the top blogs. in any respect. [01:40]
smickles yeah, the line should be drawn at quality, not labels [01:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.00334934 = 1.6747 BTC [+] [01:41]
mircea_popescu moreover, the bar should be against old press [01:41]
mircea_popescu any newspaper has to do 1.5x more than any blog for the same attention. [01:41]
mircea_popescu just because it's not a blog. [01:41]
Namjies Eh, so are requirements for claiming Gigamining shares bothering you, Mircea? [01:46]
mircea_popescu not particularly [01:50]
smickles oh yeah, are you making the claime for the etf? [01:51]
Namjies Glad to know I'm not the only one which doesn't bother. [01:51]
mircea_popescu nope. [01:51]
Namjies ... [01:51]
smickles Namjies: you expected otherwise? [01:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18002 @ 0.00050536 = 9.0975 BTC [+] [01:53]
Namjies I am unsure why the claim would not be made. [01:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27247 @ 0.00050969 = 13.8875 BTC [+] [01:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1487 @ 0.00051318 = 0.7631 BTC [+] [01:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14719 @ 0.00051363 = 7.5601 BTC [+] [01:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6732 @ 0.00051369 = 3.4582 BTC [+] [01:55]
smickles I have an idea, but at a low confidence interval [01:55]
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mircea_popescu why it would NOT be made ? [01:56]
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mircea_popescu we're not in backwards world, we're in straightwards world. why would it be made ? [01:56]
Namjies Because you don't write off an account because it requires administrative procedures or otherwise? Who voids funds/value because of procedures? [01:57]
smickles Why would it be made? To recover value which was previously deemed lost [01:58]
mircea_popescu the problem here is this : the etf was an instrument to pass along value as conveyed [01:59]
mircea_popescu it wasn't an instrument to jump through random hoops and then pass along the value thus obtained. [01:59]
Namjies "The Owner will never own less shares of the underlying than the total float of this asset implies." [01:59]
mircea_popescu thus, no collect money from investors -> make upgrades [02:00]
mircea_popescu no preparation of legal documents and mailing, no other random shit. [02:00]
mircea_popescu money received is distributed. [02:00]
Namjies Gigavps never discontinued the shares. [02:00]
Namjies The etf states "The Owner will never own less shares of the underlying than the total float of this asset implies." [02:00]
mircea_popescu the underlying was discontinued on oct 5 [02:00]
smickles well, mircea_popescu never stopped owning the shares then [02:00]
mircea_popescu the underlying is gigamining share on glbse [02:01]
Namjies GLBSE was discontinued. The contract does not state the shares ahve to be on GLBSE. [02:01]
Namjies It simply states 5 mhash/s bonds, which are not discontinued by Gigavps. [02:02]
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mircea_popescu i don't think you get to randomly create an imaginary vehicle just because the actual vehicle imploded. [02:02]
Namjies So if someone assaults you and MPEx servers rendering it incapable to continue operations, all "financial vehicles implodes" and have no value whatsoever? [02:04]
Namjies Voiding every shares? [02:04]
mircea_popescu depends how contracts are made out, but i'd expect mpex-share derivatives to die there yes [02:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50800 @ 0.00051369 = 26.0955 BTC [+] [02:04]
Namjies There's a difference between the financial vehicle and it's exchange... an exchange can close or expel a specific stock. [02:05]
mircea_popescu well, "an" is inappropriate, and mpex comparison is inappropriate. [02:05]
mircea_popescu we;'re dealing with glbse here. [02:05]
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Namjies You still own the stocks and can claim them. It's just not on the usual exchange anymore. [02:05]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu is a boober [02:05]
mircea_popescu Namjies suppose for the sake of argument gigavps simply asked for 1 penny per share registration fee. [02:06]
mircea_popescu do you see in that context how i'd just shrug ? [02:06]
Namjies The fact GLBSE doesn't deserve the appelation of an exchange because it was so bad doesn't change the fact it worked as such. [02:06]
Namjies You can't charge for registration of stock you already own. [02:07]
mircea_popescu right. [02:07]
Namjies Gigavps simply requires people to identify themselves when claiming their shares. [02:07]
Namjies He's not charging anything. [02:08]
Namjies There's always paperwork involved when moving off of an exchange. [02:08]
mircea_popescu afaik this isn't moving to a new exchange. [02:09]
Namjies The ETF contract has no conditional clause that it's execution requires GLBSE to be the platform where the bonds are exchanged or that the bonds must be issued on an exchange for the ETF to be honored. [02:09]
mircea_popescu well, it had a (details) clause that included all that. [02:10]
Namjies Where? [02:11]
mircea_popescu The owner of this ETF holds 900 perpetual 5.0Mh/s bonds (details), [02:12]
Namjies Aye... you mean the gigavps thread? [02:12]
Namjies It never stated that to be honored, those bonds required GLBSE either. [02:13]
Namjies The bonds are off an exchange now. Securities don't have to be on an exchange. [02:13]
mircea_popescu well, they in principle don't have to, all things are in principle possible. these, however, were. [02:14]
Namjies They were on an exchange, yes. Now they got dropped off of it. [02:14]
Namjies They remain legitimate bonds. [02:14]
mircea_popescu do you have some sort of statement to this effect ? [02:15]
Namjies The issuer is still honoring them. Do you have any statement to the effect Gigavps will not honor them or claimed he won't pay them? [02:16]
Namjies Would you like to confirm with GigaVPS that the bonds remain valid? [02:16]
mircea_popescu no, the question is, do you have a statement from the issuer of the thing you're discussing saying that the thing you're discussing is going to behave in the manner you're proposing. [02:17]
Namjies Paying 5 mhash/s perpetually? [02:17]
mircea_popescu no. [02:17]
mircea_popescu that in the event glbse goes away the thing still carries as if nothing happened. [02:17]
mircea_popescu or that in the event that glbse goes away, issuer will do "anything" or "do X" to obtain private registration [02:18]
Namjies What do you think he is doing? He's attributing bonds to each holder to continue honoring their coupons as usual. [02:20]
mircea_popescu that's besides the point. [02:21]
Namjies Which is? [02:21]
mircea_popescu you've made some presupositions which aren't borne by the facts, but would prefer to present these as fact. [02:21]
mircea_popescu the best way if unsure is to ask. [02:22]
Namjies Well you should ask Gigavps then to verify that. [02:22]
mircea_popescu i don't see it has anything to do with gigavps. [02:22]
mircea_popescu other, of course, the fact that he's not so far sending money. [02:23]
smickles the way that lawyer letter looked, 'gigamining' was a glbse only thing of another company [02:23]
smickles btw, i'm still waiting on my llc docs :( [02:24]
mircea_popescu really, the cost to me to get to the legal bottom of this would easily eat up the value of the etf [02:24]
mircea_popescu i guess i could do that, but then i'd have to make shareholders pay the difference somehow. [02:25]
smickles ds!!!!!!!! [02:25]
smickles sdalkf [02:25]
mircea_popescu wha ? [02:25]
smickles go here http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=wsbroker1/connect.p?app=names-report.p search smickles [02:25]
Namjies Technically, your ETF doesn't contractually require the shares to be on GLBSE or any exchange. It says "The Owner will never own less shares of the underlying than the total float of this asset implies." No conditional statement. As such if bonds remain valid and your property, you have to claim them. [02:26]
smickles it's 'waiting to be examined' received on the 13th [02:26]
mircea_popescu o hey, right under $$$ $AVE WITH CLEAN AZ CARPET CLEANING [02:26]
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smickles lol [02:26]
mircea_popescu Namjies : i'm not doing affidavits as a proxy for anyone just cause you figure i should. [02:27]
smickles lol, 'smi concepts' and 'smi concepts 2' [02:27]
mircea_popescu the practical options are either i spend something which on a rough estimate is about 8k to get the thing thoroughly looked into, [02:28]
mircea_popescu or else just shrug. [02:28]
mircea_popescu the bonds ain't worth 8k, so i'm shrugging. [02:28]
Namjies For anyone? You're the ETF owner who owns the shares. You're not proxying. [02:28]
mircea_popescu smickles http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=wsbroker1/names-detail.p?name-id=L18030781&type=PENDING%20CORP. direct link [02:28]
mircea_popescu right. [02:28]
mircea_popescu srsly, just because you imagine things a certain way doesn't mean they are a certain way. [02:29]
smickles I can haz file number ? :D [02:29]
Namjies I'm not imagining it, it's what the ETF claims. [02:29]
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Namjies >>The Owner<< will never own less shares of the underlying than the total float of this asset implies. [02:30]
mircea_popescu what can i tell you. [02:30]
Namjies You're the owner who owns the shares. [02:30]
Namjies You still own the bonds and GigaVPS intends to pay on them. [02:30]
mircea_popescu ok, let him pay. [02:31]
Namjies You technically have the duty to collect those coupons and dispense them. [02:31]
mircea_popescu see, this is where the imagination part comes in. [02:32]
mircea_popescu where in the contract does it say that "even if more fees, costs or proceedures will be imposed, the issuer will complete these" [02:32]
Namjies "Any and all revenue paid by the underlying will be distributed to the shareholders of this asset without remainder." [02:33]
mircea_popescu there you go. did i receive revenue i've not distributed ? [02:33]
Namjies You technically have but you're not claiming them. [02:33]
mircea_popescu no, i'm not. [02:33]
mircea_popescu it doesn't say "all revenue paid will be distributed and all revenue offered for claim will be claimed" [02:34]
mircea_popescu and if tomorrow gigavps comes up with a 10x dividend payment if i sleep with him, irrespective of what you may think my duty is, i ain't sleeping with him either. [02:35]
smickles c'mon, one little bj for the shareholders? [02:35]
Namjies He's not asking any payment either, simply to identify yourself officially. [02:35]
smickles that sounds like payment to me :/ [02:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29548 @ 0.00050803 = 15.0113 BTC [-] [02:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24052 @ 0.00050278 = 12.0929 BTC [-] [02:36]
smickles info is valuable [02:36]
Namjies If you say so. You may value it. [02:37]
mircea_popescu well, he's asking to identify myself in a particular way [02:37]
smickles i dunno, mircea_popescu it is a little shocking that you arn't trying to recover the value there [02:37]
mircea_popescu which, because of it's nature, imposes a cost on my part, which isn't trivial, cause i have to put lawyers at work. [02:37]
mircea_popescu smickles what do you think the value is ? [02:37]
smickles hmm, good point, it would be weighed against the cost [02:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00051086 = 7.2542 BTC [+] [02:38]
mircea_popescu i'd be much surprised if the entire series is actually worth 300 btc right now. [02:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00051369 = 2.363 BTC [+] [02:38]
mircea_popescu by the time the stuff is actually processed and alll... heh. [02:38]
mircea_popescu eventually someone brings asics to the table. maybe not this month, maybe not the next. [02:38]
smickles how many shares were ther? [02:38]
Namjies ~1000 [02:39]
mircea_popescu something over 1mn iirc [02:39]
Namjies Well 1mn of the ETF [02:39]
Namjies "where in the contract does it say that "even if more fees, costs or proceedures will be imposed, the issuer will complete these"" [02:39]
smickles maybe 45 btc [02:39]
smickles Namjies: that would be the fiduciary responsibility [02:40]
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Namjies I'd consider it a breach of contract. Being on the receiving end of that contract, any undefined situation should be treated in my favor unless a conditional clause goes against that. [02:41]
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mircea_popescu heh. i don't think you can get that much mileage out of this. [02:41]
smickles Namjies: so you expect him to pay the expenses out of pocket? [02:41]
mircea_popescu Namjies when did you buy these ? (i presume you actually have some ?) [02:42]
smickles Namjies: maybe just show your STAT to the lawyer guy and you can get the gigamining shares directly [02:42]
mircea_popescu lol that'd be something. [02:42]
smickles it should be easy enough to explain tho [02:42]
Namjies I think he's grossly exaggerating the fee to make an affidavit... but yes. He states he will never own less shares than the float. That should be done regardless of requirements if the shares remain valid. [02:43]
mircea_popescu except the shares are gone since oct the 5th. [02:43]
smickles how did he stop owning theM? [02:43]
mircea_popescu anyway, the fiduciary duty is mostly : to not have conflicting duties, to not profit by fiduciary position [02:44]
mircea_popescu i'm doing neither, so it'd seem that's a moot point. [02:44]
smickles I mean in Namjies argument, if they still exist, then mircea_popescu never stopped owning them [02:44]
Namjies The GLBSE is gone. I'm pretty sure we went over the fact the bonds do not require GLBSE to exist. [02:44]
mircea_popescu you went over it. i never bought your theory. [02:44]
mircea_popescu but to the point : when did you actually buy these shares ? [02:45]
Namjies As such, all stocks/stocks/etc. require an exchange to exist? [02:45]
smickles ok then, mircea_popescu still owns the bonds, giga has an address to send cupons to, why is it mircea's fault the dividends arn't being sent? [02:45]
Namjies I don't recall the date. Over a month ago I believe. [02:45]
Namjies smickles: It's not his fault, it's GLBSE's. GigaVPS has to identify the claimers as GLBSE data cannot be fully trusted. [02:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23668 @ 0.00051369 = 12.158 BTC [+] [02:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00051374 = 3.9044 BTC [+] [02:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6982 @ 0.00051379 = 3.5873 BTC [+] [02:47]
Namjies Regardless if it's his fault or not, Mircea should honor the contract as stated, regardless of requirements. There's no exception/discharge of responsibility in various situations for the ETF manager. [02:48]
mircea_popescu but to the point : when did you actually buy these shares ? <<< [02:48]
Namjies That's basically the same argument I had against Patrick Harnett when I was defending you Mircea against Joel Katz. [02:49]
mircea_popescu for crying out loud. when man! [02:49]
Namjies Because Patrick simply stated that deposits could be withdrawn anytime. [02:49]
Namjies That the deposits are lost didn't matter as per the contract. [02:49]
Namjies [19:45] I don't recall the date. Over a month ago I believe. [02:49]
Namjies Around mid-october. [02:50]
mircea_popescu over a month ago ? you mean, after glbse collapsed ? [02:50]
Namjies Aye. [02:50]
mircea_popescu did you ask any of these questions then ? [02:50]
Namjies No. As far as I'm concerned, all bonds, shares, etc. on GLBSE would remain valid, even without an exchange. [02:51]
mircea_popescu right. [02:51]
mircea_popescu so you bought a distressed asset on a vague contract and didn't ask [02:51]
mircea_popescu on the theory that then you can claim vague should be construed in your favour ? [02:51]
Namjies Well the financial vehicle and the place they are traded are 2 different entities. [02:52]
mircea_popescu looky. had you gotten lucky and things went smooth with giga, you'd have made some money, i imagine. [02:52]
mircea_popescu it didn't work out. that's business. no point in raising nonsensical arguments out of it. [02:52]
smickles mircea_popescu: do you have an opinion on these asic thingies? [02:53]
mircea_popescu in what sense ? [02:53]
Namjies So you're pulling a Joel Katz argument on me? Since it would cause a loss to you to manage the ETF, I should eat the loss too? [02:53]
smickles do they seem worthwhile to purchase to you? [02:54]
mircea_popescu i'm not pulling anything. you expect something to happen. i ask why,. you say cause you expect it. i say ok. [02:54]
mircea_popescu let's wait together ? [02:54]
mircea_popescu smickles no. [02:54]
Namjies So keeping ownership of the bonds and keeping payments going should be dropped because it involves administrative/legal fees? [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12918 @ 0.00051379 = 6.6371 BTC [+] [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25303 @ 0.00051383 = 13.0014 BTC [+] [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8427 @ 0.00051384 = 4.3301 BTC [+] [02:54]
smickles mircea_popescu: because mining is such a low margin activity? [02:54]
mircea_popescu smickles i suspect there's going to be a "real" asic run [02:54]
mircea_popescu blowing the current hacked-together stuff out of water. [02:54]
mircea_popescu (if current stuff ever delivers) [02:55]
smickles ah, one not offered to the public? [02:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00051016 = 16.7843 BTC [-] [02:55]
mircea_popescu well, later. [02:55]
mircea_popescu So keeping ownership of the bonds and keeping payments going should be dropped because it involves administrative/legal fees? <<< should any admin/legal fees be expended whatsoever to guarantee someone's shares ? [02:55]
mircea_popescu smickles i imagine towards the end of the year someone's finally going to make a proper asic run. [02:56]
Namjies Yes, considering managing the ETF is your responsibility. [02:56]
mircea_popescu someone like i dunno, prolly not sony, but maybe amd. [02:56]
mircea_popescu ya well, this isn't how the world works. [02:56]
Namjies There was no clause discharging you of any responsibility to that matter in case fees would be involved. [02:56]
mircea_popescu sure there was [02:56]
mircea_popescu i specifically said, even here iirc to you, that i'm not doing anything actively [02:57]
mircea_popescu that was about the upgrade i think, back in august or w/e [02:57]
Namjies Ah, but the upgrade is a different matter. [02:57]
mircea_popescu or maybe it wasn't you, was it bugpowder ? [02:57]
mircea_popescu how is it different ? [02:57]
Namjies It was to exchange the bonds for another asset, in exchange of a fee. [02:57]
Namjies You have no obligation to convert a bond into a new bond. [02:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5408 @ 0.00051384 = 2.7788 BTC [+] [02:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00051396 = 16.5238 BTC [+] [02:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4988 @ 0.00051415 = 2.5646 BTC [+] [02:58]
Namjies Under a different agreement. [02:58]
mircea_popescu whoa ? [02:58]
mircea_popescu then there we go. indeed, i don't. [02:58]
Namjies In this case the bond has not changed. [02:58]
mircea_popescu so if it has not changed then i don't need to do anything. [02:59]
Namjies Yes, administrative tasks. [02:59]
mircea_popescu this is wordsplay and you know it. [02:59]
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Namjies One was exchanging ONE security PLUS a fee (Gigamining 5 mhash/s bond + 0.29 BTC) for ANOTHER, COMPLETLY DIFFERENT security (Teramining bonds) [03:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11867 @ 0.00051016 = 6.0541 BTC [-] [03:01]
Namjies The other is identifiying yourself through a claim for the same existing bond (Gigamining). [03:01]
mircea_popescu except it's not the same existing bond. [03:01]
Namjies Those two scenarios are different. It's not wordplay. [03:01]
mircea_popescu at best it's some replacement/reconstruction thing. [03:01]
Namjies It remains a gigamining bond paying 5 mhash/s perpetually. [03:02]
mircea_popescu so ? [03:02]
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mircea_popescu two 100 W light bulbs aren't the same lightbulb [03:02]
mircea_popescu they're jsut two things made to the same spec. [03:02]
Namjies So it's not a new security. It's the same, except it moved off an exchange. [03:02]
Namjies Moving off an exchange creates a new identical security, according to you? [03:03]
Namjies Which is not the same, just identical? [03:03]
mircea_popescu nope. [03:03]
mircea_popescu what do you mean "not the same just identical" [03:03]
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Namjies That it would somehow be a "new" security, with an identical contract but that doesn't relate at all to the previous one on the exchange. [03:04]
mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127488.0 this is heating up [03:04]
mircea_popescu in general it would depend on the particulars. in the particulars of all glbse securities, this is true, any reconstruction either private or on a new exchange is a new security. [03:05]
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Namjies Well I disagree on that point. When an exchange drops an asset, it usually remains the same asset. An ETF holding it would have to keep the shares even if it implies more administrative costs in managing their ownership off an exchange. [03:07]
mircea_popescu the case of exchanges dropping assets is irrelevant. glbse had not the ability to do that. [03:08]
mircea_popescu their assets were baked in. [03:08]
mircea_popescu and no, when shares go off the exchanges into the pink sheets the funds do not keep them. [03:08]
mircea_popescu they sell them off at any price. [03:08]
Namjies Well then, you should sell your claim to them. [03:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 233 @ 0.00051016 = 0.1189 BTC [-] [03:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1312 @ 0.00050278 = 0.6596 BTC [-] [03:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9305 @ 0.00050131 = 4.6647 BTC [-] [03:09]
mircea_popescu if they had been dropped by the exchange i could. [03:09]
mircea_popescu they weren't. they were just destroyed, practically speaking. [03:09]
Namjies "practically" [03:09]
mircea_popescu well ya, practically. they can't be traded. [03:10]
Namjies technically, the exchange didn't drop them. The exchange was closed definitly. [03:10]
mircea_popescu right. [03:10]
Namjies Forcing all assets on it out. Not voiding them. [03:10]
mircea_popescu this is what you'd like it to be. whether it actually is ... well... [03:10]
mircea_popescu doesn't convince me. [03:10]
Namjies So all GLBSE asset issuers are entitled to not pay any shareholders anymore, is that what you claim? [03:11]
mircea_popescu it's not what i claim, it's what the case is. [03:11]
mircea_popescu the fact that people still expect to be paid... well... of course they do, people always do. but they have pretty much no claim to it. [03:11]
Namjies Because any holder would be hard pressed to prove ownership? The official data is being released. [03:12]
Namjies As far as I'm concerned, that's good enough for claims. [03:12]
mircea_popescu the correct civil avenue is : all shareholders sue glbse. [03:12]
mircea_popescu they recover whatever they recover. [03:13]
mircea_popescu glbse sues issuers. they recover w/e they recover. [03:13]
mircea_popescu since glbse is not solvent this is a moot point however. [03:13]
mircea_popescu i don't see why you think it's good enough for claims. what weigh does it have ? [03:14]
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Namjies It's basically the premise of GLBSE as the very poor ownership proof system it had. That GLBSE's records is the ownership proof. [03:15]
mircea_popescu someone claims it's bullshit. [03:16]
mircea_popescu how do you on the basis of this proof of yours disprove his claim ? [03:16]
Namjies Same for official stock exchanges... ownership is what the records say. [03:18]
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smickles 01:08 < Namjies> Well then, you should sell your claim to them. << offer him any amount [03:19]
mircea_popescu you mean official as in mpex or official as in nyse ? [03:19]
pigeons glbse records were provided by someone with an official scarlett letter of the forums though [03:19]
Namjies both [03:19]
Namjies Yes, GLBSE records are far less documented. [03:19]
mircea_popescu smickles sadly the "do not further assign thing" fucks this. [03:19]
Namjies In both case, ownership is the records tho. [03:19]
smickles aw, i was going to bid 0.001btc [03:20]
mircea_popescu something doesn't become acceptable just because it's the only straw you have Namjies [03:20]
mircea_popescu there's some minimum levels to satisfy. [03:20]
mircea_popescu a "proof of ownership" that fails to disprove contrary claim is no such proof. [03:20]
Namjies Aye. [03:21]
mircea_popescu it may be indication of ownership, sure [03:21]
mircea_popescu and i don't dispute the released lists are some indication of ownership [03:21]
Namjies So what do you require to act at all on anything? Personal benefit or not interested? [03:23]
mircea_popescu the very reason people are stuck with messes such as giga's is exactly that : they find themselves in a situation where they have to assign other people's propetyu [03:23]
mircea_popescu but have no actual proof. [03:23]
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mircea_popescu Namjies look, the thing doesn't make sense to pursue. [03:25]
mircea_popescu i'd have to research as what i'm accepting them. i'd have to research how can i handle them once accepted. i'd prolly have to take them off mpex. on it goes. [03:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00051415 = 8.6891 BTC [+] [03:26]
Namjies I am uncertain why. It seems you only want to avoid any procedure/work/costs at any price.He simply requires you identify yourself along with a notarized claim that you own X shares. [03:27]
mircea_popescu "yourself". is this me or some company ? [03:27]
Namjies Yourself. [03:27]
mircea_popescu why ? [03:27]
mircea_popescu you have all these answers ready in your head [03:27]
mircea_popescu then a month or so down the road they run you into a wall [03:28]
Namjies The ETF's owner listed is Mircea Popescu, not MPEx, according to the ETF page. [03:28]
mircea_popescu then you insist on having ready answers in your head. [03:28]
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mircea_popescu do you understand why i'd want a lawyer to research and report as to whether i'd better claim as a real person or as a legal person ? [03:28]
Namjies Yes. For protecting yourself. [03:29]
mircea_popescu so in short : i'm glad you see a duty of care for the btc thing. i don't see why you imagine it can be extended into this "free anything forever" construction. [03:30]
mircea_popescu and for the record, i'd be rather surprised if what giga offers actually is a weekly btc payout. [03:30]
mircea_popescu the logical thing would be for him to offer a dollar settlement to all applicants. [03:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18745 @ 0.00050131 = 9.3971 BTC [-] [03:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4431 @ 0.00049846 = 2.2087 BTC [-] [03:30]
Namjies But being listed as the owner and manager of the ETF, dropping the bonds altogether because it involves legal fees doesn't seem to be the best way to do that. The ETF's manager legal liability and related costs are not ETF holders concerns. [03:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19050 @ 0.00051415 = 9.7946 BTC [+] [03:31]
mircea_popescu they are, insamuch as they arise from the actual issuer. [03:31]
Namjies Those fees would be extra to protect yourself through consultation regarding the claim process. [03:31]
mircea_popescu basically, the way this worked out is this : i had X owned by Y on exchange Z. exchange Z dissapeared, destroying the records of X. there's some indication of the ownership on the basis of which Y wants to create unspecified something which you assume is X'. [03:32]
mircea_popescu now if you imagine that i will out of my own time and money a) go through whatever hoops Y comes up with and b) pay counsel to advise as to whether those hoops are safe [03:33]
mircea_popescu you're dreaming in a fantasy world. [03:33]
mircea_popescu it's true the etf holders can't be held for those fees. [03:34]
mircea_popescu this is the very reason no action shall be taken. [03:34]
Namjies Hmm... is fees incured by an ETF supposed to be shared among the holders. [03:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6870 @ 0.00049846 = 3.4244 BTC [-] [03:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5480 @ 0.0004982 = 2.7301 BTC [-] [03:37]
Namjies Or is the ETF issuer responsible for such fees, would be the question. [03:38]
Namjies Usually an ETF issuer should have management fees charged to the fund and be responsible for incurred fees related to it's management. [03:39]
Namjies As far as I know. [03:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25920 @ 0.0004982 = 12.9133 BTC [-] [03:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13867 @ 0.00049797 = 6.9053 BTC [-] [03:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16764 @ 0.00049617 = 8.3178 BTC [-] [03:39]
Namjies Although this ETF charged nothing at all. [03:39]
mircea_popescu it charged nothing and it did nothing other than split up all payments received. [03:39]
mircea_popescu that was the original idea, and for the very reason that anything else is too difficult to spell out in a contract. [03:40]
mircea_popescu i still think this is the correct way to make such a passthrough thing [03:40]
Namjies Well fine. I'd say so too. I don't believe it's fair to require you to incur the fee now required after GLBSE's fiasco. But the need for simple thing, I still say it doesn't excuse you would have required a proper contract where you had protective clauses for yourself. [03:42]
smickles fees are totally shared by the etf holders, it's usually communicated by an expense ratio [03:42]
smickles and they do change [03:43]
mircea_popescu easly granted that the contract is not the best. [03:43]
Namjies Hmm, but does this applies to all ETF or is it how ETF contracts are usually layed out? [03:43]
mircea_popescu it's one of the earliest too. [03:43]
Namjies Could an ETF charge a management fee and assume all management/legal costs in their contract? [03:44]
mircea_popescu a managed fund would normally. [03:44]
mircea_popescu an automatic/index fund would not. [03:44]
smickles the etf contracts i've read don't explicitly mention the fee [03:45]
mircea_popescu kinda the reason index funds outperform managed funds, that fee. [03:45]
smickles the fee is asigned afterwards [03:45]
Namjies Well I'll default on assuming it was an automatic/index one since you didn't charge a fee, even if not specified as such. [03:45]
smickles Namjies: thing is, as described, the giga.etf wasn't actually an etf [03:47]
smickles it was an SPV [03:47]
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mircea_popescu etspv lol [03:47]
Namjies How do SPV usually work? [03:47]
smickles there is no usual in spv land [03:47]
mircea_popescu spvs are these vehicles created in derivative trades rto insulate the parties [03:48]
smickles "Special Purpose Vehicle" [03:48]
mircea_popescu bank A wants to trade swap type X with bank B [03:48]
mircea_popescu A makes SPV A1, B makes SPV B1, then B1 and A1 enter the contract [03:48]
mircea_popescu the SPVs can go bankrupt without touching A or B, and also their assets are off-balancesheet [03:48]
Namjies Hmm... well Gigavps lawyer is in charge of this claim process and claims are sent to him. [03:54]
Namjies I could always check with him if I can make a second claim for my interest in the ETF. [03:55]
mircea_popescu didn;t you hold a bunch of giga on glbse too ? or am i confused [03:55]
Namjies Yes [03:55]
mircea_popescu something like 2k or w/e ? [03:55]
Namjies No, almost 400 [03:55]
mircea_popescu it was you that had that spreadsheet i remember, no ? [03:55]
Namjies 37Xish I think [03:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00050484 = 13.2268 BTC [+] [03:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00050801 = 5.1309 BTC [+] [03:56]
Namjies 384 [03:56]
mircea_popescu aha. [03:56]
Namjies those I can claim [03:56]
mircea_popescu jcpham hey i forgot to ask, did pirate pay ? [03:56]
Namjies GPG signed statements are technically valid legally and I have the signed contract and the signed statement. [03:57]
mircea_popescu Namjies you mean the contract as displayed on the etf ? [03:58]
Namjies Aye [03:58]
mircea_popescu you can try, but gigamining would i imagine point out that it was assigned glbse shares, which is true. [03:58]
Namjies Let me guess, you have not provided GLBSE an email & BTC address? As such you're not even on Gigavps's list to start with? [04:00]
Namjies Or did you provide that, assuming Gigavps would pay without further requirements? [04:00]
mircea_popescu i don't personally have a glbse acct even. [04:00]
Namjies ah [04:00]
Namjies WAIT [04:01]
mircea_popescu lol [04:01]
mircea_popescu wut ? [04:01]
Namjies If you don't have an account, then it's the GLBSE account owner who technically has to make the claim. He was the one proxying for you who was proxying for the ETF holders. [04:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00049722 = 10.5411 BTC [-] [04:02]
mircea_popescu yea. [04:02]
Namjies The claim has to be made associated with the BTC address provided to GLBSE. [04:02]
Namjies As such I could simply claim with my signed statement from MPEx directly with that person, assuming that person will be making the claim. [04:03]
Namjies Especially if that person didn't hold shares strictly for you. [04:03]
mircea_popescu they did. [04:03]
Namjies Ah. [04:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00049722 = 5.0219 BTC [-] [04:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 936 @ 0.00049617 = 0.4644 BTC [-] [04:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27125 @ 0.00049566 = 13.4448 BTC [-] [04:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11939 @ 0.00049549 = 5.9157 BTC [-] [04:04]
Namjies So they'd have to make the claim strictly for you... [04:04]
mircea_popescu i could make it just as well. [04:04]
Namjies Well basically, anyone can make a claim. [04:04]
mircea_popescu no, what i'm saying is, this detail is not important, i could actually make the claim as well as they could. [04:05]
Namjies Yes. [04:05]
mircea_popescu right. [04:05]
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mircea_popescu November 20 Hey all, I am attempting to start a new business where people can buy and sell bitcoins easily and safely [04:09]
mircea_popescu MPOE-PR points him to the "wanna start a business thread" [04:09]
mircea_popescu November 21 Thanks for the suggestion. So far we have been pretty successful doing a bunch of transactions [04:10]
mircea_popescu November 23 We were just scammed by someone [04:10]
Namjies ... [04:10]
mircea_popescu ;;google triple facepalm [04:10]
gribble Triple FacePalm Pictures, Images and Photos - Photobucket: ; Urban Dictionary: triple facepalm: ; After double facepalm, here comes triple facepalm - SemiAccurate ...: [04:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14601 @ 0.00050732 = 7.4074 BTC [+] [04:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8978 @ 0.00050801 = 4.5609 BTC [+] [04:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 771 @ 0.00051216 = 0.3949 BTC [+] [04:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23334 @ 0.00050679 = 11.8254 BTC [-] [04:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6195 @ 0.00050679 = 3.1396 BTC [-] [04:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48257 @ 0.00050936 = 24.5802 BTC [+] [04:29]
Namjies Well Mircea, could you at least let me know if the person holding shares for you on GLBSE will claim them? [04:32]
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Namjies or should I say, held [04:32]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19943 @ 0.00050936 = 10.1582 BTC [+] [04:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3457 @ 0.00051415 = 1.7774 BTC [+] [04:34]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40400 @ 0.00050665 = 20.4687 BTC [-] [04:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.00050303 = 2.6409 BTC [-] [04:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7350 @ 0.00050181 = 3.6883 BTC [-] [04:41]
mircea_popescu Namjies nope. as in, won;'t claim them. [04:47]
mircea_popescu obviously we've talked about this. [04:47]
Namjies Ok, so no one is claiming them. [04:49]
mircea_popescu nope. [04:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00050267 = 7.4395 BTC [+] [04:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00050946 = 4.5851 BTC [+] [04:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00051299 = 2.9753 BTC [+] [04:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8352 @ 0.00051415 = 4.2942 BTC [+] [04:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19738 @ 0.0005143 = 10.1513 BTC [+] [04:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24250 @ 0.0005143 = 12.4718 BTC [+] [04:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 200 @ 0.00334934 = 0.6699 BTC [+] [05:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38400 @ 0.00050888 = 19.541 BTC [-] [05:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6932 @ 0.00050386 = 3.4928 BTC [-] [05:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7809 @ 0.00051006 = 3.9831 BTC [+] [05:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18969 @ 0.0005143 = 9.7558 BTC [+] [05:27]
smickles http://blog.smickles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/keep-calm-and-buy-bitcoins.png [05:27]
Namjies Ah, income tax is annoying and complex. And too much exceptions and special cases. [05:28]
Namjies Fun bookkeeping... [05:35]
Namjies If a government is bent on providing services to the population and public infrastructure, I'd prefer it's budget be levied through a large property tax and luxury tax. [05:36]
Namjies Might achieve just the same thing, except it would be easier to manage for everyone and harder to evade. [05:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36300 @ 0.0005143 = 18.6691 BTC [+] [05:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6999 @ 0.0005143 = 3.5996 BTC [+] [05:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42301 @ 0.00051431 = 21.7558 BTC [+] [05:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10033 @ 0.00051397 = 5.1567 BTC [-] [05:45]
mircea_popescu Namjies donations only. [05:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31550 @ 0.00051397 = 16.2158 BTC [-] [05:57]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [14:54]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: Bitcoin asset exchanges: http://polimedia.us/mpex || https://coinbr.com || https://cryptostocks.com || https://icbit.se || https://therocktrading.com || https://assets-otc.com || https://www.havelockinvestments.com || list bot commands: !help || Streaming trades only: #bitcoin-assets-trades || Net Chart: http://bit.ly/RPclBi [14:54]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~T42@89-212-41-49.static.t-2.net at Thu Nov 8 15:00:02 2012 [14:54]
Chaang-Noi time for giga drama [14:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19550 @ 0.00050791 = 9.9296 BTC [+] [15:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13313 @ 0.00050774 = 6.7595 BTC [-] [15:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00051307 = 2.1549 BTC [+] [15:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1832 @ 0.00051415 = 0.9419 BTC [+] [15:02]
mircea_popescu o, it's been raging since yest [15:06]
Chaang-Noi i liked that dog barking quote [15:07]
Chaang-Noi honestly im shocked giga is doing this [15:08]
Chaang-Noi he will be acting as a broker more or less [15:08]
Chaang-Noi well i guess he is not letting the stuff trade... [15:08]
mircea_popescu i bet you he'll offer a cash settlement. [15:08]
mircea_popescu i dunno where people get the idea they will receive some replacement bond [15:08]
Diablo-D3 for what? [15:09]
Chaang-Noi i dont think giga got a lawyer as good as mine... [15:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2144 @ 0.0005064 = 1.0857 BTC [-] [15:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.00050571 = 11.1003 BTC [-] [15:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00050464 = 3.4316 BTC [-] [15:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10106 @ 0.0005046 = 5.0995 BTC [-] [15:09]
Diablo-D3 oh giga [15:09]
Chaang-Noi the SEC might still go after giga for what he is doing [15:11]
Chaang-Noi might still be able to i mean [15:11]
Diablo-D3 what, if he buys back all the assets? [15:12]
Chaang-Noi he is changing the deal... that wont fly well, he should have just tried to keep the old one, and told people to deal with GLBSE... [15:12]
Chaang-Noi if he buys them all back, and people are okay with the price that might work, im not sure [15:12]
* novusordo (~novusordo@cpe-67-253-77-195.maine.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:12]
* novusordo is now known as Guest89814 [15:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00051415 = 2.8278 BTC [+] [15:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3644 @ 0.0005046 = 1.8388 BTC [-] [15:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116392 @ 0.00050413 = 58.6767 BTC [-] [15:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00051415 = 14.0877 BTC [+] [15:28]
PsychoticBoy Fuck the SEC, gigavps stole my money [15:28]
PsychoticBoy violating a contract [15:28]
PsychoticBoy he got 2 options: 1 pay up or 2 feel the consequences [15:29]
PsychoticBoy by 2 everyone knows what I mean [15:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24558 @ 0.00050413 = 12.3804 BTC [-] [15:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11259 @ 0.00050326 = 5.6662 BTC [-] [15:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21683 @ 0.00050247 = 10.8951 BTC [-] [15:30]
PsychoticBoy I will invest as much btc a needed to............... [15:30]
PsychoticBoy 2k should do it [15:30]
PsychoticBoy at this point gigavps is stealing our money, he took my money without any ID or such, so paying me back would also not require any ID or such [15:32]
PsychoticBoy We all know who he really is so should be easier to hunt him than Trendon Shavers [15:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13467 @ 0.00050247 = 6.7668 BTC [-] [15:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30233 @ 0.00050219 = 15.1827 BTC [-] [15:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 667 @ 0.00050219 = 0.335 BTC [-] [15:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00050186 = 3.6636 BTC [-] [15:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22857 @ 0.00050181 = 11.4699 BTC [-] [15:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 617 @ 0.00050126 = 0.3093 BTC [-] [15:38]
* gigavps (~gigavps@184.89.201.201) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:39]
* Guest89814 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [15:40]
pigeons PsychoticBoy: how would he "pay you back"? at the mpex last 15 day price as the contract specifies? [15:41]
PsychoticBoy the scammy fuck is online [15:41]
PsychoticBoy that would mean 0 piggeons [15:42]
pigeons ok so he paid you back then [15:42]
pigeons what's your problem? [15:42]
* novusordo (~novusordo@cpe-67-253-77-195.maine.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:43]
PsychoticBoy last on mpex does not mean last on glbse as stated in contract, but beeside that no dividend etc [15:43]
* novusordo is now known as Guest1946 [15:43]
mircea_popescu so how much do you figure one gigavps bond is worth atm ? [15:43]
pigeons PsychoticBoy: last 15 days on glbse (which the words glbse are not in the contract for htat) is still 0 [15:43]
pigeons so he bought back your contract at 0, thanks nefario [15:44]
PsychoticBoy sure, keep talking shit, last trade on glbse was 0.78 [15:44]
pigeons it doesnt say last trade, it says last 15 days, glbse has been closed more than 15 days [15:44]
pigeons read [15:44]
gigavps hi PsychoticBoy [15:45]
gigavps are you threating me now? [15:45]
PsychoticBoy hi, pay up dude [15:45]
PsychoticBoy no threads [15:45]
gigavps http://pastebin.com/NhxSKZxb [15:45]
PsychoticBoy just pay up [15:45]
PsychoticBoy Should I get scarry? I dont think so [15:45]
gigavps what is your email address? how many bonds do you own? [15:45]
PsychoticBoy I did not auth so everyone could have said that [15:46]
gigavps please submit the information requested, and you'll be paid [15:46]
PsychoticBoy I own lots (probably more than 100 bonds incl FDBF [15:46]
PsychoticBoy You wont get my ID and such so [15:46]
pigeons ;;whois PsychoticBoy [15:47]
gribble ??? (~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy) has been on server kornbluth.freenode.net since 08:06 PM, November 22, 2012 (idle for 17 seconds) and is on #p2pool, #bitcoin-mining, #bitcoin-assets, and #bitcoin. [15:47]
PsychoticBoy my email and btcaddress I can give you [15:47]
PsychoticBoy If you send me the coins then [15:47]
gigavps pm me you email and i'll be sure to have my lawyer contact you on monday [15:47]
PsychoticBoy with what kind of info gigavps? [15:48]
PsychoticBoy dont want to recieve the same email again with that .... story [15:49]
mircea_popescu I did not auth so everyone could have said that << ah come on. [15:49]
PsychoticBoy I am man enough to say I did say it but thats not the case [15:49]
gigavps weak [15:50]
pigeons someone stole your freenode password to threaten gigavps? [15:50]
PsychoticBoy whats weak? [15:50]
PsychoticBoy I just want to recieve my outstanding div and final buyback [15:50]
pigeons seriously, how can he determine final buyback? ther is no last 15 days glbse [15:51]
gigavps PsychoticBoy how do you propose we decide on the final buyback? [15:51]
gigavps http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=F.GIGA.ETF [15:51]
PsychoticBoy in the neightbourhoud of the last trade on glbse lets say 0.6 btc per bond and the outstanding div [15:52]
gigavps maybe we should use the last mpex trading price [15:52]
gigavps PsychoticBoy please submit the information requested [15:52]
gigavps thanks [15:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44506 @ 0.00050707 = 22.5677 BTC [+] [15:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00050564 = 2.3765 BTC [-] [15:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31144 @ 0.00050126 = 15.6112 BTC [-] [15:53]
PsychoticBoy nope wont happen gigavps, I can give you my email and btc address and that would be it [15:53]
pigeons i like the guy on the forum who complained for a few pages and then at the end said, "does this mean my 2 shares of giga are gone?" [15:53]
PsychoticBoy thats the same info you got from glbse so that should be enough [15:54]
gigavps PsychoticBoy let me a least see if you are in the list [15:54]
gigavps what is your email? [15:54]
gigavps and please auth [15:54]
PsychoticBoy got 2 accounts [15:54]
Diablo-D3 gigavps: I find it strange you hired a lawyer though [15:54]
gigavps if you go back 10 pages in the gigamining thread, there were multiple people asking me to get a lawyer [15:55]
gigavps Diablo-D3 why does it seem strange? [15:55]
PsychoticBoy you can get this email first and check this one: flyingdutchmanbitcoinfund@gmail.com [15:55]
Diablo-D3 well, with DMC, Im going the route of telling my shareholders to go after GLBSE legally [15:56]
Diablo-D3 I cant do it alone, even if DMC could afford a lawyer, it needs to be multiple independent complaints and suits against him [15:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87118 @ 0.00051415 = 44.7917 BTC [+] [15:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5782 @ 0.00051498 = 2.9776 BTC [+] [15:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52968 @ 0.00051147 = 27.0915 BTC [-] [15:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20561 @ 0.00050126 = 10.3064 BTC [-] [15:59]
gigavps PsychoticBoy that email is not in either of the lists i have received [15:59]
PsychoticBoy hmmn [15:59]
gigavps whats the other email? [15:59]
mircea_popescu if you go back 10 pages in the gigamining thread, there were multiple people asking me to get a lawyer <<< lol [16:13]
mircea_popescu I cant do it alone, even if DMC could afford a lawyer, it needs to be multiple independent complaints and suits against him << who told you this tho ? [16:13]
PsychoticBoy every day is an exciting day last few days ;) [16:14]
mircea_popescu s/days/months/ [16:15]
Diablo-D3 mircea_popescu: erm, DMC _cant_ afford a lawyer. [16:16]
Diablo-D3 math told me that. [16:16]
mircea_popescu well, so explain this math [16:17]
mircea_popescu not the math of affording a lawyer [16:17]
mircea_popescu i mean the math of multiple independent suits. do you think courts work by ballot ? [16:17]
Diablo-D3 mircea_popescu: oh no, its just going to ruin him financially [16:18]
Diablo-D3 he'll have to keep showing up to court and the moment he doesnt he loses [16:18]
mircea_popescu um. [16:18]
mircea_popescu they'd prolly be consolidated you aware ? [16:18]
Diablo-D3 possibly [16:18]
Diablo-D3 and people can fight that as well [16:18]
Diablo-D3 in the end, it still causes him massive legal trouble and essentially bankrupts him [16:18]
mircea_popescu ya, but one's enough. [16:19]
Diablo-D3 not if the community wants to make a point [16:19]
mircea_popescu forget "the community". the community is a bunch of howlers, they all turn out if there's a catered party. [16:20]
mircea_popescu they all fling shit if they have to buy on their own a post stamp [16:20]
mircea_popescu "ALL current exchange operators, including those who make several thousand dollars a month, are small peanuts, and will come under this pressure." that sounds a little nefarious. [16:21]
Diablo-D3 mircea_popescu: feh [16:21]
Diablo-D3 whatever [16:21]
Diablo-D3 if they dont want to fight for their investment, then I cant help them [16:21]
Diablo-D3 DMC cant sue nefario, and the only thing DMC do is make sure nefario never gets another chance to fuck people [16:22]
Diablo-D3 giga probably wont win either [16:22]
Diablo-D3 so its not like the community has many options here [16:22]
mircea_popescu gigavps https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127488.msg1354381#msg1354381 did you read that ? [16:23]
Diablo-D3 I mean, I hope giga wins [16:24]
Diablo-D3 dont get me wrong [16:24]
Diablo-D3 but I just dont see it happening [16:24]
Chaang-Noi hey gigavps hows it going? [16:25]
* rdponticelli_ (~rdpontice@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.00050317 = 15.4473 BTC [+] [16:27]
* rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [16:27]
Chaang-Noi how public is this? http://webaccess.sftc.org/Scripts/Magic94/mgrqispi94.dll?APPNAME=IJS&PRGNAME=ROA22&ARGUMENTS=-ACGC12522983 [16:29]
Chaang-Noi im not as in the loop as i once was, but iv not seen it posted anywhere... [16:30]
mircea_popescu pretty public [16:31]
mircea_popescu was announced the week it was filed [16:31]
Chaang-Noi i meant this "MOTION TO QUASH SERVICE OF PROCESS FOR LACK OF PERSONAL JURISDICTION" [16:33]
Chaang-Noi they are trying to get out of it cuz they are not in NZ... [16:33]
gigavps mircea_popescu the initials of my business are in my handle [16:33]
Chaang-Noi they are saying the TOS says tehy have to sue in a NZ court so suing in SF is fail... [16:33]
mircea_popescu true. it'll take a statement of some sort or i dunno [16:33]
mircea_popescu Chaang-Noi the trial is in sf not nz [16:34]
Chaang-Noi i dont think it will go far, but phantomcircuit is 100% sure he will get paid his 60k usd legal fees... [16:34]
Chaang-Noi that is why there is a motion to quash... [16:34]
mircea_popescu he's not the first one to die bankrupt cause he was sure he'll get his legal fees back [16:34]
Chaang-Noi yeah he is fail, but the motion is to toss the case cuz he is saying the bitcoincia customers can only sue in NZ cuz TOS said so... [16:35]
Chaang-Noi i dont think many people know this, its not on the forum... [16:35]
mircea_popescu court won't quash a trial that names him just because it names some foreign corp [16:35]
Chaang-Noi i cant post cuz banned [16:35]
mircea_popescu and besides, bitcoinica is getting taken out because of insolvency [16:35]
mircea_popescu so it'll be just amir, patrick and co plus does 1 through 99 plus nefario. [16:35]
Chaang-Noi i dont think you understand what im saying. [16:35]
mircea_popescu maybe not. [16:36]
mircea_popescu but the suit is not just against bitcoinica. [16:36]
Chaang-Noi yea im not talking about the suit, in talking about the newest motion [16:36]
Chaang-Noi the one a week ago... [16:36]
mircea_popescu i get it. [16:37]
mircea_popescu looky : someone sues X, Y and Z. X files a motion to quash the suit because Y can not be sued in tha jurisdiction. [16:37]
mircea_popescu the court won't likely quash. it may remove Y. [16:37]
Chaang-Noi yeah, that is what im saying. [16:37]
mircea_popescu it will remove Y anyway, cause of insolvency of Y. so the motion is toothless in all respects. [16:38]
Chaang-Noi its costing him a huge amount of money. [16:38]
mircea_popescu ya well not the fiest time he spent huge amounts on useless shit [16:38]
Chaang-Noi i personally think he is getting fucked over by his lawyers [16:38]
mircea_popescu course last time it wasn't his [16:38]
mircea_popescu then again... maybe it's not his this time either. [16:38]
Chaang-Noi the lawyers made him pay first, never a good sign, lol [16:38]
mircea_popescu he could be fucking some chick with a law degree and no practice [16:38]
mircea_popescu and she's doing it for no cash payment. [16:39]
Chaang-Noi i talked to him about this. [16:39]
Chaang-Noi the coin is at gox, and they are not being sued... and also tihan has control of the gox account now, and he is not being sued [16:40]
Chaang-Noi i dont think this court case is going to really do anything but fuck over everyone involved in it with legal fees [16:40]
mircea_popescu over 1500 usd in fees already. [16:40]
Chaang-Noi court fees? [16:40]
Chaang-Noi cuz lawyer fees you can add two 0's to that... [16:41]
mircea_popescu court yes. [16:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00050917 = 0.5092 BTC [+] [16:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25120 @ 0.00050918 = 12.7906 BTC [+] [16:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35850 @ 0.00050759 = 18.1971 BTC [-] [16:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11830 @ 0.00050317 = 5.9525 BTC [-] [16:53]
* rdponticelli_ is now known as rdponticelli [16:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2378 @ 0.00050126 = 1.192 BTC [-] [16:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27322 @ 0.00050106 = 13.69 BTC [-] [16:59]
* a5m0_ is now known as a5m0 [17:02]
* a5m0 has quit (Changing host) [17:02]
* a5m0 (~a5m0@unaffiliated/a5m0) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:02]
mircea_popescu "Hi bixcoin, I have good news for you. The email address in your bitcointalk.org profile is not in the list sent from GLBSE so you have nothing to worry about!" [17:05]
mircea_popescu so neither PsychoticBoy nor bixcoin is on the list... gigavps you sure that list is actually right ? [17:05]
mircea_popescu or whatever, the lists. [17:05]
PsychoticBoy my other account is on the list, but yes the list is incomplete [17:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20 @ 0.00050226 = 0.01 BTC [+] [17:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19130 @ 0.00050918 = 9.7406 BTC [+] [17:08]
gigavps mircea_popescu the list is incomplete [17:10]
gigavps it's one of the main reasons for having a claims process in the first place [17:10]
mircea_popescu ah [17:10]
mircea_popescu i didn't realise "incomplete" means... two thirds or less. [17:10]
gigavps gigaminers shouldn't have to conceed to nefario's incompetence [17:10]
mircea_popescu i imagined something like 99%. in retrospect, i have no ideea why [17:10]
gigavps concede [17:11]
gigavps the other reason for the claims process is so no one can collude with nefario to defraud gigaminers and get away with it [17:11]
mircea_popescu yeah. one major issue to the entire scheme, that. [17:12]
gigavps to put 100% faith into the list is like relisting with glbse [17:12]
mircea_popescu especially with all we know about nefario. [17:12]
gigavps after they have closed [17:12]
Diablo-D3 I swear to god Im going to buy another machine just so I can put 16gb of memory in it [17:13]
Diablo-D3 or 32 [17:13]
mircea_popescu [WTT] Breastmilk for Bitcoins - .13 BTC per ounce [17:13]
mircea_popescu this is like... a good price i think [17:13]
Diablo-D3 mircea_popescu: might be cheaper to just get a woman pregnant [17:13]
mircea_popescu someone should make a bitcoin breastmilk dairy farm. [17:13]
mircea_popescu get milk shipped in from all over the interwebs [17:14]
Diablo-D3 wait wait wait, I think japan has a thing for this [17:14]
mircea_popescu make grana padano [17:14]
mircea_popescu sell to japan [17:14]
jcpham ;;calc .13*[ticker --last] [17:14]
gribble 1.6055013 [17:14]
jcpham is a good price [17:14]
mircea_popescu yeah. [17:14]
Diablo-D3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAxzpTX8aHw [17:14]
jcpham dunno about wholesale though [17:14]
mircea_popescu you know when i'll be old and unable to get it up anymore [17:14]
mircea_popescu ill prolly sell mpex and dedicate myself to woman milkfarming on the webs. [17:14]
jcpham distribution and retail aren't the same [17:15]
Diablo-D3 >too old to get it up anymore [17:15]
Diablo-D3 they have pills for that [17:15]
jcpham 4 pinkie pies [17:16]
mircea_popescu eh, why should i spend my money on pills. [17:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 54 @ 0.00325448 = 0.1757 BTC [-] [17:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1600 @ 0.00325447 = 5.2072 BTC [-] [17:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 850 @ 0.0032513 = 2.7636 BTC [-] [17:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3946 @ 0.00321556 = 12.6886 BTC [-] [17:16]
Diablo-D3 jcpham: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN [17:17]
Diablo-D3 mircea_popescu: because fucking chicks is a god given right [17:17]
mircea_popescu well so then let god pay for pils. [17:18]
mircea_popescu o goood... won't you buy meee.... some viagra pills. [17:18]
mircea_popescu my friends all fuck chickens and then eat their bills... [17:18]
mircea_popescu o gooo-oood... won't you buy meee [17:18]
Diablo-D3 NO. INSTEAD I SHALL BLESS YOU WITH A FOUR HOUR ERECTION. MAKE GOOD USE OF IT. [17:18]
mircea_popescu o hey Diablo-D3... i'm coming over. [17:18]
mircea_popescu gotta show you something. [17:19]
Diablo-D3 Ive seen a dick before. [17:19]
* Diablo-D3 looks in his pants [17:19]
Diablo-D3 Yup, still where I left it. [17:19]
mircea_popescu we need new cheese names, for woman cheese. [17:19]
mircea_popescu like... tittish blue. [17:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00050918 = 5.27 BTC [+] [17:23]
Diablo-D3 huh [17:27]
Diablo-D3 woman cheese [17:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051497 = 0.515 BTC [+] [17:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00051498 = 5.8965 BTC [+] [17:34]
* MiningBuddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [17:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23053 @ 0.00051498 = 11.8718 BTC [+] [17:45]
EskimoBob looks like you two are having your early morning wankerfest [17:46]
* mircea_popescu passes EskimoBob the soggy cookies. [17:47]
EskimoBob you can keep your cookie, you two keep licking it :) [17:48]
EskimoBob so, gigavps managed to show his real face and fucked everyone over... [17:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00051424 = 5.2967 BTC [-] [17:49]
mircea_popescu doesn't seem he had much in the way of choice. [17:50]
EskimoBob why do you say that? He had no problem taking the coin in the first place [17:51]
mircea_popescu well yea. [17:51]
pigeons he's the only one trying to pay people [17:51]
mircea_popescu if he had the sense to never move to glbse [17:52]
EskimoBob for some reason I think that he made it up and asked some slimeball to write that letter [17:52]
mircea_popescu and kept it as it originally was, private offering [17:52]
mircea_popescu i guess it'd be no problem right about now. [17:52]
EskimoBob those are all "if" and "then..." blaa blaa. [17:52]
mircea_popescu listen, EskimoBob : back in april he was under a lot of pressure (from me) to not even go ahead with the glbse listing. [17:52]
mircea_popescu in retrospect it was a bad move. what can i tell you. [17:52]
mircea_popescu he wanted to give everyone a chance or w/e [17:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00051424 = 9.6163 BTC [-] [17:53]
EskimoBob this is all hindsight :) [17:53]
EskimoBob 20/20 ;) [17:53]
mircea_popescu well for everyone else it is. it was foresight for me bacvk then, but anyway. [17:53]
mircea_popescu so, yea he relied on glbse. guess what ? his investors did too. [17:53]
mircea_popescu everyone did, cause it was fashionable to do at the time. [17:54]
EskimoBob so what, this will note excuse what he is doing now [17:54]
EskimoBob question is, who will be the next greedy fuck, who pulls something similar [17:55]
mircea_popescu well, what he's doing now is trying to somehow fix it. he has scant alternatives and so he's stuck with lawyers. [17:55]
EskimoBob how is he fixing this shit now with that bs he posted? [17:55]
mircea_popescu it seems he got a dubious list from nefario. [17:56]
EskimoBob he changed the rules, demands info he has no need for etc [17:56]
mircea_popescu from what he's said (above) he has some grounds to suspect it may even have been tampered it, or might have been. [17:56]
mircea_popescu or could have been. who knows. [17:56]
mircea_popescu what if you had however many shares but simply WERE NOT on nefario's list ? [17:56]
EskimoBob i do not think so. He probably gor incomplete list because some did not send the double payment back [17:56]
mircea_popescu can he go "sorry, you're not on the list" iyo ? [17:56]
EskimoBob like usagi did to me? [17:57]
mircea_popescu yes. [17:57]
EskimoBob James told issuers that this list is NOT! complete [17:57]
mircea_popescu so what are they to do ? [17:57]
EskimoBob pay back the double payment [17:57]
EskimoBob to James [17:58]
mircea_popescu you are the issuer. you receive a "list" which someone meanwhile tagged as a scammer says is not complete. what do you do ? [17:58]
mircea_popescu it's two months late, to boot. [17:58]
mircea_popescu why is it two months late ? did he take this long to doctor the lists, put his own accounts in there ? [17:58]
mircea_popescu you don't know. [17:58]
mircea_popescu so what can you do ? [17:58]
EskimoBob irrelevant [17:58]
EskimoBob list is incomplete because some received a double payment when James fucked up [17:59]
mircea_popescu how do you know that's the only reason ? [17:59]
mircea_popescu how do you know what's on the list is the actual legitimate owners ? [17:59]
EskimoBob now few slimebags use that to force some to give up [17:59]
mircea_popescu look, i understand the cui prodest approach. it's fine, nothing wrong with it. [18:00]
mircea_popescu but it's not the end all-be all. [18:00]
EskimoBob how did I know that trades really happened in GLBSE, how do I know that sky is blue... blaa blaa blaa [18:00]
EskimoBob sure, james fucked up twice [18:00]
EskimoBob all he needed to forward to issuer was a hash and a payment account number [18:01]
mircea_popescu the next day. [18:01]
mircea_popescu if by oct 6th everyone had that in their mailbox i could totally see your pov. [18:01]
EskimoBob and send the shareholder the "secret code", balance and the hash [18:01]
mircea_popescu ideally send all this encrypted. [18:01]
EskimoBob it was relly stupid to send the e-mail too [18:02]
EskimoBob bad idea [18:02]
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EskimoBob encrypting somethinmg will not make it more correct or true [18:02]
mircea_popescu no but it will maintain its secrecy. [18:02]
mircea_popescu to own property you must either be identified and public or else anon AND SECRET [18:03]
EskimoBob I men we can do it with a md5 has and be done with . You never have to know my e-mail address [18:03]
mircea_popescu anonimity itself is destructive of property rights. only if coupled with secrecy does it work. [18:03]
mircea_popescu do you understand this point ? [18:03]
EskimoBob but I can prove it's me who owns the shares [18:03]
mircea_popescu how ? [18:03]
gigavps hi EskimoBob [18:03]
EskimoBob gigavps: hello darling [18:03]
gigavps EskimoBob do you own gigamining? [18:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 354 @ 0.00321556 = 1.1383 BTC [-] [18:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 7575 @ 0.00321486 = 24.3526 BTC [-] [18:04]
EskimoBob I did and I sold after I realized you can not be trusted. I think we have talked about it [18:04]
gigavps EskimoBob how can i trust nefario to give me a proper list? [18:04]
gigavps EskimoBob what should i do when people make claims that are not of nefario's list? [18:05]
EskimoBob before i obviously realized that perpetual bonds are losers :) [18:05]
EskimoBob gigavps: good question [18:05]
gigavps EskimoBob do you think gigaminers should not get their past payments because nefario fucked up? [18:05]
EskimoBob it sure is hard but what else can you do? [18:05]
mircea_popescu gigavps you absolutely need to make a full length statement and discuss all this in excruciating detail. [18:05]
EskimoBob gigavps: there are 3 sides on this [18:06]
mircea_popescu prolly should have done it in parallel with the announcement. [18:06]
gigavps mircea_popescu it's coming [18:06]
EskimoBob 1) you [18:06]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: were you here when I was talking about what I wanted to do with dmc 2.0? [18:06]
EskimoBob 2) nefario [18:06]
EskimoBob 3) investor [18:06]
EskimoBob some of the 3 have beef with 2 and they need to fix that [18:06]
gigavps EskimoBob nefario can't even send me a properly formatted yaml file [18:06]
* Ukto dances the drama-jig [18:06]
gigavps which means he put it together by HAND [18:06]
mircea_popescu gigavps did he sign the lists he sent btw ? [18:06]
EskimoBob before you can do anything with their clime [18:07]
gigavps mircea_popescu don't be daft [18:07]
mircea_popescu for crying out loud [18:07]
Ukto man, you can FEEL the love [18:07]
gigavps EskimoBob the ONLY think i am trying to do is to pay ppl [18:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15350 @ 0.00051424 = 7.8936 BTC [-] [18:07]
* Diablo-D3 pokes EskimoBob [18:07]
Ukto mircea_popescu: why you being daft? :P [18:07]
Ukto Diablo-D3: I feel trollish today :/ Prolly didnt get enough sleep [18:07]
mircea_popescu ukto apparently for thinking nefario can run gpg --clearsing by hand ? [18:07]
Diablo-D3 Ukto: I feel trollish every day, so /me shrugs [18:08]
* Diablo-D3 pokes EskimoBob [18:08]
Ukto mircea_popescu: I have already made statements on my personal expereince with Nefario's competency. [18:08]
EskimoBob gigavps: apparently not because the lawyer stuff you pulled is NOT helping you to prove shit [18:08]
gigavps EskimoBob maybe you should put on your thinking cap for a minute [18:08]
EskimoBob there has to be better way to do it without you getting fucked and your investors too [18:08]
mircea_popescu well wtf, so herp derp here's a plaintext-over-email statement of beneficial ownership [18:08]
Ukto gigavps: I have not had a chance to look into things yet for shares, but what about ppl who havent done their taxes in a while? [18:08]
gigavps EskimoBob if i pay someone according to the list, and the list is not correct, i'm still on the hook to pay them [18:09]
* Diablo-D3 pokes EskimoBob [18:09]
* Diablo-D3 pokes EskimoBob [18:09]
* Diablo-D3 pokes EskimoBob [18:09]
* Diablo-D3 pokes EskimoBob [18:09]
EskimoBob Diablo-D3: what=? [18:09]
Ukto mircea_popescu: like evrey other action preformed in the past, no thought went into it. [18:09]
mircea_popescu myeah. [18:09]
EskimoBob gigavps: hows that? [18:09]
Ukto at least, no clear concise thought [18:09]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: zero coupon non-callable corporate bonds. [18:10]
gigavps EskimoBob because i am now making payments, not glbse [18:10]
EskimoBob OK, let me ask this. Why did james remove some names from the list [18:10]
Ukto mircea_popescu: you heard what btc-mining is gonna do? close down/pay off? their own trading engine? [18:10]
gigavps EskimoBob two reasons [18:11]
gigavps 1. they never filled out the claims form [18:11]
mircea_popescu Ukto i have no ideea. is that namjies ? [18:11]
Ukto is it? 0,o [18:11]
gigavps 2. they were overpaid in the btc return [18:11]
EskimoBob correct [18:11]
mircea_popescu 3. ? [18:11]
EskimoBob now, why do you have to pay those people? [18:11]
EskimoBob they have not completed 2 or 1 task thy had to [18:11]
Ukto 1. Create Asset. 2. ??????? 3. Make Money... *joking..* [18:12]
mircea_popescu Ukto i think it is. iirc he was taking claims to confirm his lists. [18:12]
gigavps EskimoBob, if they own gigamining, they should be able to make a claim [18:12]
EskimoBob no scumbag lawyer will help to clear this up [18:12]
EskimoBob no notarized letter etc [18:12]
EskimoBob it's total waste of time and other peoples money [18:12]
mircea_popescu EskimoBob so you hate not just greeks and pornographers but also lawyers ? [18:12]
mircea_popescu who do you date exactly ? [18:12]
Ukto EskimoBob: while I agree with you, its at least the proper 'legal' course of action. well, mainly if gigavps plans to sue glbse/nefario [18:12]
EskimoBob models, mircea_popescu [18:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 600 @ 0.00051424 = 0.3085 BTC [-] [18:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27654 @ 0.00051333 = 14.1956 BTC [-] [18:12]
Ukto otherwise really imho I dont think a lawyer is necessary [18:12]
mircea_popescu hate to break it to you, but models smoke the cock on cam. [18:13]
Ukto A lawyer having info from someone is no diff than an issuer [18:13]
gigavps EskimoBob if there are enough claims that don't match with glbse, we can start making demands for the database [18:13]
EskimoBob gigavps has to take a step back and put his thinking hat on - all he did, was stir up another shitstorm [18:13]
Ukto gigavps: you prepared for a long 1~3 year international legal battle? [18:13]
Ukto aginst nefario/glbse [18:13]
Ukto to demand the database? [18:14]
gigavps Ukto my first demand letter is what sparked nefario to get off of his ass [18:14]
EskimoBob gigavps: for start, work with all the names on the list - [18:14]
gigavps not anyones elses [18:14]
EskimoBob then [18:14]
Ukto gigavps: ah, nice. dont get me wrong, just questioning. :) [18:14]
EskimoBob then send the missing claims to james and find out, what happened [18:14]
EskimoBob and tha's it [18:14]
Ukto I have my own extensive experience with lawyers and crap. just curious. :) [18:14]
EskimoBob KISS ;) [18:14]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: well? [18:14]
gigavps EskimoBob that is exactly what i am doing [18:14]
EskimoBob gigavps: but whay apostill and al tht crap? [18:15]
EskimoBob how is this helping anyone? [18:15]
Ukto EskimoBob: from nefario's point of view, gigavps's actions with the lawyer may actually help glbse holders further as he mentioned. nefario is afraid of lawyers/lawsuites, etc. [18:15]
EskimoBob NO IT WILL NOT! [18:15]
Ukto EskimoBob: if nefario feels like things are getting out of hand and he has to do something, he will jump [18:15]
EskimoBob he jumped before he started to think [18:16]
Diablo-D3 damnit EskimoBob [18:16]
Diablo-D3 I just want your fucking opinion [18:16]
EskimoBob gigavps: sorry, you are not doing that. You are demanding information that is not helping your form people who are on the list [18:17]
EskimoBob hold on, kids need something [18:17]
* EskimoBob is afk [18:17]
Ukto EskimoBob: yes, we do need alot of things [18:17]
Ukto :P [18:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9780 @ 0.00051333 = 5.0204 BTC [-] [18:18]
EskimoBob Diablo-D3: did you send me PM? I must be missing somethimng [18:18]
Diablo-D3 [11:10:11] EskimoBob: zero coupon non-callable corporate bonds. [18:18]
EskimoBob oh that one, sorry, I missed it :) [18:18]
Diablo-D3 the bonds will be "physical" certs that are digitally signed with a single use pgp key [18:19]
EskimoBob you know I do not like that non-callable stuff at all [18:19]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: its not perpetual, though [18:19]
EskimoBob zeros are super stuff but NC par is bad [18:19]
EskimoBob Diablo-D3: there is better way [18:19]
Diablo-D3 it'll be like for 5 years or something [18:19]
Diablo-D3 and then sell them with a bid-driven OID [18:20]
EskimoBob set the date, but add that bond can be refinanced [18:20]
* Ukto shakes EskimoBob violently [18:20]
Ukto EskimoBob: I just wanted to say Hi. :P [18:20]
EskimoBob Ukto: Hi [18:20]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: refinancing them doesn't make sense imo [18:20]
Ukto lol [18:20]
Ukto alright, enough trolling for now. [18:20]
EskimoBob Diablo-D3: sure it does [18:20]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: issuing multiple issues of bonds does [18:20]
Diablo-D3 er, multiple series [18:20]
EskimoBob not really but depends [18:21]
Diablo-D3 I want as little bullshit as possible [18:21]
EskimoBob you see, multiple issues after each other is bad [18:21]
Diablo-D3 no dividends means no need for day to day exchange manhandling [18:21]
Diablo-D3 no complex legal work means less work for both sides [18:22]
EskimoBob one issue, callable at X on date Y and if needed, refinanced before Y is good [18:22]
EskimoBob or lets say better [18:22]
Diablo-D3 callable makes it more complex [18:22]
EskimoBob rolling out bond issues one after another is real crapp and build ZERO trust [18:22]
gigavps EskimoBob if i pay someone i shouldn't have, i need legal recourse, especially if this comes to light when btc is $1000/coin [18:23]
EskimoBob sure, lets not go there [18:23]
EskimoBob :) [18:23]
gigavps so notorizing signed documents is kind of important [18:23]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: why would you want it to be callable though? [18:24]
EskimoBob Oh, btw, i made another cool and dark, bit rusty looking BTC mug [18:24]
gigavps plently of ppl have already submitted this info and will be paid next week [18:24]
gigavps EskimoBob there are about 10 ppl in the forums screaming [18:24]
* Ukto should submit a claim even though nefario wont email any data [18:24]
EskimoBob Diablo-D3: because I want you asa issuer to show that you will call (buy) your bonds back at date X - means you will manage the funds so you will have the available coin to do so [18:25]
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EskimoBob overly simplify [18:25]
EskimoBob d [18:25]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: yes, but a non-callable bond means I _must_ buy it back at that date. [18:25]
Diablo-D3 the only difference is I cant do it early at my choice [18:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5066 @ 0.00051333 = 2.6005 BTC [-] [18:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00051186 = 5.9376 BTC [-] [18:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00051096 = 3.5512 BTC [-] [18:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.0005082 = 9.4779 BTC [-] [18:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6628 @ 0.00050106 = 3.321 BTC [-] [18:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5092 @ 0.00050025 = 2.5473 BTC [-] [18:26]
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Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: ie, a 5 year bond, at any point after those 5 years someone can show up with a bond and I have to pay out on it [18:26]
EskimoBob sorry, my bad, when i sayd callable I meant you buy them back on date X (date of maturity) - opposite to perpetual [18:26]
copumpkin callable is a bond with a prepayment option [18:26]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: non-callable doesnt mean perpetual [18:26]
EskimoBob copumpkin: I know I just messed up [18:27]
Diablo-D3 non-callable just means I cant pay the bond out early at a reduced payment [18:27]
EskimoBob we talked about perpetualetc [18:27]
copumpkin fucking options everywhere [18:27]
copumpkin how do they work [18:27]
Diablo-D3 I dont want a perpetual bond, they dont fucking work [18:27]
EskimoBob become a UK , have a queen and I'll trust your perpetual bonds. everyone else can fuck off :) [18:28]
Diablo-D3 zero coupon non-callable corporate bonds [18:28]
copumpkin I wouldn't say trust is as much of an issue. The thing about a perpetuity is that the later payments are effectively meaningless [18:28]
Diablo-D3 copumpkin: basically [18:29]
Chaang-Noi im reading the giga thread and loling and the guys saying they will file criminal charges aginst giga... do these guys not understand that they have no proof of ownership and only nefario has it? [18:29]
Diablo-D3 Chaang-Noi: not only that, do they understand giga was fucked here? [18:29]
Diablo-D3 a victim cant legitimately sue another victim [18:29]
* copumpkin bangs gigavps [18:29]
Chaang-Noi im shocked giga is doing as much as he is... [18:29]
Chaang-Noi giga is not a victim in my mind, only the people who trusted nefario, if i was giga i would say, im not a broker, glbse was, go deal with them... [18:30]
Chaang-Noi i wonder if giga might be getting himself into more trouble by trying to help [18:31]
Chaang-Noi giga seems to be going out of his way to help [18:31]
Chaang-Noi and they just attack him... [18:31]
Chaang-Noi i do understand about the apostile thing... i cant do that in thailand, we dont have them :/ [18:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39122 @ 0.00050025 = 19.5708 BTC [-] [18:32]
gigavps someone call for me [18:33]
Chaang-Noi no, im just shocked at how stupid some of the people are who are bitching in your thread... [18:33]
Chaang-Noi i wonder the IQ level of the average bitcoiner at times... [18:33]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: what Im thinking is sell like every 10k of bonds for ~7835 [18:33]
gigavps Chaang-Noi dunno [18:34]
gigavps i've already talked with one of them and they aren't even on the list [18:34]
Chaang-Noi maybe scammer, maybe the did not give back a double payment, maybe nefario is fucking around or gave you some other list... who knows. [18:34]
Chaang-Noi im shocked you are even trying to fix this mess. [18:35]
Chaang-Noi nefario is so fail... [18:35]
Diablo-D3 Chaang-Noi, gigavps: you can chime in here as well btw [18:35]
Chaang-Noi whats up D3? [18:35]
gigavps what do i need to chime in on? [18:36]
gigavps i'm trying to pay people, not sure what else there is to say [18:36]
Diablo-D3 well, Im trying to plan out DMC 2.0 here [18:36]
gigavps good luck [18:36]
Diablo-D3 I want something that actually works for investing and isnt a fucking failtrain like every exchange ever [18:36]
Chaang-Noi wait for open transactions [18:37]
Diablo-D3 the only thing that I can figure out that works is like 5 or 10 year OID non-callable bond [18:37]
Diablo-D3 and then pgp sign them using a single use key and then bury the key [18:39]
EskimoBob Diablo-D3: I think that's a good idea, unless you actually need 10K [18:40]
Diablo-D3 EskimoBob: oh? [18:40]
EskimoBob Chaang-Noi: OT will not fix this problem actually :( [18:40]
EskimoBob it actually makes it even worst [18:40]
Diablo-D3 because I'd need like 1 million BTC. [18:41]
EskimoBob I love the idea but I do not see (at the moment) how it can help [18:41]
EskimoBob OT needs a frontend (not just users GUI) [18:42]
EskimoBob all the "servers" that host securities can connect to that "frontend" [18:43]
Diablo-D3 well [18:43]
Diablo-D3 what we'd need is an exchangecoin [18:43]
Diablo-D3 that logs shit into a bitcoin chain [18:43]
Diablo-D3 but it only prevents the exchange from running away with your shit [18:44]
Diablo-D3 it doesnt prevent scams [18:44]
EskimoBob but before the frontend, it needs direct connection to btc/ltc/ppc blockchain so you can pay for your trades and not buysome intermediate crap [18:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13169 @ 0.00051246 = 6.7486 BTC [+] [18:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24966 @ 0.00051429 = 12.8398 BTC [+] [18:45]
Diablo-D3 yeah, which actually COULD be done [18:45]
EskimoBob preventing scams is close to impossible unless you want to run SEC type of outfit and basically go back to shit BTC is trying to rid us all [18:45]
Diablo-D3 store the wallet.dat private keys in the exchangecoin chain [18:46]
EskimoBob to prevent scams, you need to elleminate humans [18:46]
Diablo-D3 and encrypt them using the exchangecoin address private key [18:46]
Diablo-D3 so you'd need a client that spoke both bitcoin and exchangecoin [18:46]
EskimoBob Diablo-D3: this is one more point if failure? [18:46]
EskimoBob of* [18:46]
Diablo-D3 no [18:46]
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mircea_popescu in the end, remarkable how low reputations lawyers enjoy with the general public, and how little consideration or indeed knowledge the latter has about legal process. [18:55]
mircea_popescu it's almost as if the western world is made of no citizens. [18:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44615 @ 0.00050062 = 22.3352 BTC [-] [18:59]
EskimoBob mircea_popescu: lawyers are the scumbags who have made sure no normal person can survive the fkn traps they have woven. What a "wonderful" system to make sure the big Co's get what they want and common people get fucked left ans right. [19:01]
EskimoBob you do not understand it because you do not see the big picture, mircea_popescu [19:02]
EskimoBob maybe you see it but your obsession with money has blinded you so you do not understand it what you see. [19:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21335 @ 0.00050062 = 10.6807 BTC [-] [19:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00050194 = 10.4905 BTC [+] [19:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3154 @ 0.00051429 = 1.6221 BTC [+] [19:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5086 @ 0.00050025 = 2.5443 BTC [-] [19:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00050021 = 9.3539 BTC [-] [19:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30864 @ 0.00049948 = 15.416 BTC [-] [19:11]
mircea_popescu or maybe i am one of those for whom lawyers usually work. [19:12]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00051429 = 1.7743 BTC [+] [19:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16610 @ 0.00049948 = 8.2964 BTC [-] [19:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7250 @ 0.00049916 = 3.6189 BTC [-] [19:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4413 @ 0.00049904 = 2.2023 BTC [-] [19:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12280 @ 0.00051429 = 6.3155 BTC [+] [19:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3215 @ 0.00051498 = 1.6557 BTC [+] [19:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.0005162 = 0.5162 BTC [+] [19:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.00051621 = 22.5584 BTC [+] [19:16]
* novusordo (~novusordo@cpe-67-253-77-195.maine.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:18]
* novusordo is now known as Guest9266 [19:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00051623 = 9.4986 BTC [+] [19:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051644 = 0.5164 BTC [+] [19:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24134 @ 0.00051645 = 12.464 BTC [+] [19:23]
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* PsychoticBoy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [19:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00051645 = 7.127 BTC [+] [19:24]
EskimoBob here is one from last week with BTC logo http://i46.tinypic.com/35i9agi.jpg it has a rough texture and handle looks like it has some rust on it (it's a high fire glaze, so will not stain) [19:24]
* PsychoticBoy (~Psychotic@5ED180CA.cm-7-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:24]
* PsychoticBoy has quit (Changing host) [19:24]
* PsychoticBoy (~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:24]
EskimoBob this is called stoneware (high temperature fire) [19:25]
EskimoBob I have more pictures from different angle [19:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9160 @ 0.00051623 = 4.7287 BTC [-] [19:26]
* gigavps has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [19:31]
PsychoticBoy ;;ident PsychoticBoy [19:34]
gribble Nick 'PsychoticBoy', with hostmask 'PsychoticBoy!~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy', is identified as user PsychoticBoy, with GPG key id 06DC71AFE4DAC520, key fingerprint 9E476C16F877E988110787BC06DC71AFE4DAC520, and bitcoin address None [19:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23748 @ 0.00050395 = 11.9678 BTC [-] [19:35]
* WormDrink has quit (Quit: WormDrink) [19:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15362 @ 0.00049904 = 7.6663 BTC [-] [19:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21150 @ 0.00049903 = 10.5545 BTC [-] [19:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19488 @ 0.00049887 = 9.722 BTC [-] [19:38]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15492 @ 0.00050395 = 7.8072 BTC [+] [19:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00050398 = 1.9655 BTC [+] [19:41]
* abracadabra is now known as ozcoin_staff [19:42]
* ozcoin_staff is now known as VarDiff [19:42]
* Buglouse (~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00050379 = 12.2925 BTC [-] [19:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7988 @ 0.00050379 = 4.0243 BTC [-] [19:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9462 @ 0.00050398 = 4.7687 BTC [+] [19:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20188 @ 0.00050398 = 10.1743 BTC [+] [19:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4208 @ 0.00051004 = 2.1462 BTC [+] [19:57]
mircea_popescu https://www.bitcoin.de/en?cr=1 lol anyone feel bravely about arbitrage ? [20:00]
jurov someone already did [20:07]
mircea_popescu no ? i still see 20 eur/btc [20:10]
* VarDiff is now known as abracadabra [20:11]
* Gladamas_ (~Gladamas@dyn.98-139-19-46.swissinet.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45550 @ 0.00051004 = 23.2323 BTC [+] [20:16]
* Gladamas has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [20:16]
* MadSweeney (~who@unaffiliated/madsweeney) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:16]
* Gladamas_ is now known as Gladamas [20:17]
* dvide (~jack@87-194-145-96.bethere.co.uk) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:18]
jurov mircea, look to the orders table, not to graph [20:19]
mircea_popescu oh i see [20:20]
jurov and latest trades in the bottom too [20:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21692 @ 0.00051004 = 11.0638 BTC [+] [20:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17059 @ 0.00051495 = 8.7845 BTC [+] [20:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2753 @ 0.00051495 = 1.4177 BTC [+] [20:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9638 @ 0.00050804 = 4.8965 BTC [-] [20:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00050365 = 7.7058 BTC [-] [20:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00050365 = 4.8854 BTC [-] [20:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20032 @ 0.00049887 = 9.9934 BTC [-] [20:36]
* kuzetsa has quit (Quit: Stop doing that it. You don't want it to fall off.) [20:36]
mircea_popescu well... need a powerful sales type for a joint venture [20:38]
mircea_popescu anyone want to step forward ? [20:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34302 @ 0.00050578 = 17.3493 BTC [+] [20:39]
* Namjies (~BTC-Minin@modemcable075.132-23-96.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33100 @ 0.00051054 = 16.8989 BTC [+] [20:58]
* kuzetsa (kuzetsa@yurizoku.tk) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11950 @ 0.00051054 = 6.101 BTC [+] [21:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22350 @ 0.00051232 = 11.4504 BTC [+] [21:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00051141 = 4.6027 BTC [-] [21:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9298 @ 0.00050903 = 4.733 BTC [-] [21:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7152 @ 0.00050303 = 3.5977 BTC [-] [21:22]
* Cory (~Cory@unaffiliated/cory) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:25]
mircea_popescu Reward-Drop ETA: 2012-11-28 22:17:49 UTC (4 days, 2 hours, 50 minutes) [21:27]
mircea_popescu an era ends. [21:28]
FabianB_ and a new begins [21:28]
mircea_popescu indeed. [21:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3395 @ 0.00316381 = 10.7411 BTC [-] [21:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13456 @ 0.00050303 = 6.7688 BTC [-] [21:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3744 @ 0.00050259 = 1.8817 BTC [-] [21:33]
mircea_popescu apparently badbear is saying gigavps should get scammer tag ? [21:36]
mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127488.msg1354888#msg1354888 [21:36]
* MadSweeney has quit (Quit: paalam) [21:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10600 @ 0.00051232 = 5.4306 BTC [+] [21:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051644 = 0.5164 BTC [+] [21:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32724 @ 0.00051645 = 16.9003 BTC [+] [21:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2214 @ 0.00051645 = 1.1434 BTC [+] [21:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15350 @ 0.00051671 = 7.9315 BTC [+] [21:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19836 @ 0.00051686 = 10.2524 BTC [+] [21:44]
Namjies Ah yes... well I suppose someone making an agreement he cannot honor afterward (for whichever reasons, even if forced not to honor it) could be considered as a scam, somehow... [21:46]
kakobrekla common mistake! [21:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18964 @ 0.00051686 = 9.8017 BTC [+] [21:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3836 @ 0.00051693 = 1.9829 BTC [+] [21:49]
* toffoo (~tof@177.192.122.43) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00051397 = 9.7654 BTC [-] [21:53]
Namjies NO! [21:53]
Namjies I know who you're referring to... [21:54]
Namjies I argued a bit too much maybe. [21:55]
Namjies As someone posted recently somewhere on OTC I think: http://innerslacker.com/images/argue091204.jpg [21:56]
kakobrekla yes indeed, much better to argue irl. [21:58]
Namjies Well does it really make a difference? Other than persons are more careful of what they say when they can be seen... [22:02]
Namjies Eh, either way, I'm off for bit. [22:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00051693 = 3.3084 BTC [+] [22:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051692 = 0.5169 BTC [-] [22:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17914 @ 0.00051693 = 9.2603 BTC [+] [22:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00051696 = 7.1599 BTC [+] [22:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52200 @ 0.000517 = 26.9874 BTC [+] [22:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27992 @ 0.00051712 = 14.4752 BTC [+] [22:14]
* oizotov has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [22:19]
* rdponticelli has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [22:24]
* darkee| has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [22:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00051397 = 0.9765 BTC [-] [22:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00051273 = 14.2539 BTC [-] [22:24]
* oizotov (~irssi@gateway/tor-sasl/oizotov) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:25]
* darkee| (~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:25]
* rdponticelli (~rdpontice@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40050 @ 0.00050927 = 20.3963 BTC [-] [22:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2050 @ 0.00050927 = 1.044 BTC [-] [22:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9106 @ 0.00050259 = 4.5766 BTC [-] [22:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3344 @ 0.00050171 = 1.6777 BTC [-] [22:39]
* toffoo has quit () [22:39]
mircea_popescu bah. [22:47]
mircea_popescu random owners of random abandoned/burried websites need to learn that if anyone asks "how much for the site" bs replies a la "we're open to offers" do not work. [22:47]
mircea_popescu there's fifty million just like them. there's maybe five people in the market. maybe. [22:47]
mircea_popescu ;;ticker [22:53]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 12.44999, Best ask: 12.45000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 12.44999, 24 hour volume: 22381.31642394, 24 hour low: 12.25000, 24 hour high: 12.45000, 24 hour vwap: 12.35589 [22:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00050946 = 1.2227 BTC [+] [22:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8022 @ 0.00051204 = 4.1076 BTC [+] [22:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10422 @ 0.00050744 = 5.2885 BTC [-] [23:07]
Namjies [15:47] random owners of random abandoned/burried websites need to learn that if anyone asks "how much for the site" bs replies a la "we're open to offers" do not work. [23:11]
Namjies No, they wait for that 500 000$ offer. They're still in the dotcom bubble. [23:11]
mircea_popescu awell. [23:12]
Namjies Basically, as soon as you inquire about a domain/website, be sure to receive a "feel free to offer" or a 50x inflated price. [23:12]
Namjies They'll try to milk you if they know you want it. [23:13]
Namjies If you're not offering top dollars, they'll wait for the next person to come around. [23:13]
Namjies Anyway, off for a bit again. [23:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13428 @ 0.00050744 = 6.8139 BTC [-] [23:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5199 @ 0.00050171 = 2.6084 BTC [-] [23:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2345 @ 0.00050529 = 1.1849 BTC [+] [23:15]
* jurov found the situation irresistible and started python coinbr/barebackbot.py S.MPOE [23:16]
jurov scaring the markets after several months hiatus :P [23:19]
mircea_popescu what's it do ? [23:20]
jurov it's that scalper [23:21]
mircea_popescu does it work ? [23:23]
jurov we'll see... made a buy and now it's complaining about actual price [23:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00050263 = 12.1636 BTC [-] [23:24]
jurov waiting for the gap to open [23:24]
mircea_popescu lol a complaining bot [23:25]
jurov yeah, my code is bitchy.. like me xD [23:26]
jurov WARNI [__main__] Price 49307 is below last buy price 50529 [23:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 755 @ 0.00050263 = 0.3795 BTC [-] [23:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00051145 = 4.0405 BTC [+] [23:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26745 @ 0.00051204 = 13.6945 BTC [+] [23:27]
jurov INFO [mpex.stat] new order:S S.MPOE, amount: 2345, price: 50495 [23:27]
jurov fuck yeah [23:27]
mircea_popescu lol [23:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00050171 = 21.2725 BTC [-] [23:28]
mircea_popescu wait. it sold for a loss ? [23:28]
jurov i allow for few satoshi loss [23:29]
mircea_popescu ah [23:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30429 @ 0.00050171 = 15.2665 BTC [-] [23:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22852 @ 0.00050119 = 11.4532 BTC [-] [23:34]
Ukto Namjies: did nefario not include his little custom identification "codes"/tokens per share holder in the yaml file he sent out? just email/payment_address/shares ? [23:34]
Ukto or anyone else know? [23:35]
smickles no shareholder info here yet for the two things i expect to get it for [23:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1629 @ 0.00316381 = 5.1538 BTC [-] [23:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 4121 @ 0.00308319 = 12.7058 BTC [-] [23:36]
smickles it's tanking :o [23:37]
Ukto heh [23:37]
smickles http://blog.smickles.com/bitcoin/bitcoin-finance/a-good-month-for-s-dice-shareholders-in-the-making/#update_24nov12 [23:41]
smickles number updated to 1.146959% [23:41]
smickles mircea_popescu: & [23:41]
mircea_popescu ukto indeed not. [23:43]
Ukto mircea_popescu: interesting. [23:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2345 @ 0.00050495 = 1.1841 BTC [+] [23:43]
mircea_popescu i guess he didn't have time [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17933 @ 0.00051204 = 9.1824 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10620 @ 0.00051438 = 5.4627 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46499 @ 0.00051508 = 23.9507 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051711 = 0.5171 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56508 @ 0.00051712 = 29.2214 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31450 @ 0.00051733 = 16.27 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56700 @ 0.00051741 = 29.3371 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00051745 = 0.5175 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101966 @ 0.00051746 = 52.7633 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00051751 = 17.6471 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48850 @ 0.00051759 = 25.2843 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31580 @ 0.00051768 = 16.3483 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41499 @ 0.00051772 = 21.4849 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24359 @ 0.00051785 = 12.6143 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34992 @ 0.00051788 = 18.1217 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00051816 = 11.555 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82904 @ 0.00051848 = 42.9841 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13242 @ 0.00051853 = 6.8664 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27415 @ 0.00051857 = 14.2166 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33800 @ 0.00051858 = 17.528 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74842 @ 0.00051861 = 38.8138 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00051874 = 8.6111 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00051875 = 5.7063 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37550 @ 0.00051876 = 19.4794 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00051876 = 17.1969 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22666 @ 0.00051882 = 11.7596 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29790 @ 0.00051889 = 15.4577 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32600 @ 0.00051907 = 16.9217 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.00051908 = 22.2685 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00051929 = 14.2285 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34900 @ 0.00051938 = 18.1264 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30900 @ 0.00051964 = 16.0569 BTC [+] [23:44]
Ukto 0,o [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18850 @ 0.00051966 = 9.7956 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00051976 = 3.6903 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14950 @ 0.00051978 = 7.7707 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32750 @ 0.00052022 = 17.0372 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41450 @ 0.00052025 = 21.5644 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00052033 = 11.9156 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57000 @ 0.0005205 = 29.6685 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7148 @ 0.00052059 = 3.7212 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00052063 = 5.9352 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17043 @ 0.00052066 = 8.8736 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.00052067 = 14.9432 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00052077 = 6.77 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38700 @ 0.00052078 = 20.1542 BTC [+] [23:44]
smickles :o [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00052082 = 13.1767 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00052087 = 21.6682 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.000521 = 8.2058 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.00052107 = 14.2773 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24715 @ 0.00052116 = 12.8805 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34000 @ 0.00052122 = 17.7215 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39548 @ 0.00052128 = 20.6156 BTC [+] [23:44]
mircea_popescu lol this looks cool on live.coinbr.com [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36000 @ 0.00052144 = 18.7718 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00052165 = 15.5713 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32557 @ 0.00052177 = 16.9873 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50450 @ 0.00052186 = 26.3278 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97366 @ 0.00052197 = 50.8221 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45350 @ 0.00052203 = 23.6741 BTC [+] [23:44]
Ukto smickles: See what you did? [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.00052205 = 16.0269 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.0005221 = 5.0644 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26315 @ 0.00052213 = 13.7399 BTC [+] [23:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25225 @ 0.00052214 = 13.171 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31788 @ 0.00052217 = 16.5987 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14950 @ 0.00052245 = 7.8106 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13127 @ 0.00052249 = 6.8587 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48650 @ 0.00052286 = 25.4371 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30106 @ 0.00052287 = 15.7415 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36500 @ 0.00052298 = 19.0888 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35700 @ 0.00052298 = 18.6704 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21361 @ 0.00052319 = 11.1759 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37700 @ 0.0005232 = 19.7246 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23800 @ 0.00052322 = 12.4526 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37694 @ 0.00052349 = 19.7324 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00052352 = 9.5804 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25795 @ 0.00052359 = 13.506 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28450 @ 0.00052362 = 14.897 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00052362 = 2.3039 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9063 @ 0.00052377 = 4.7469 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7509 @ 0.00052391 = 3.934 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30750 @ 0.00052438 = 16.1247 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.00052455 = 24.0244 BTC [+] [23:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29250 @ 0.00052463 = 15.3454 BTC [+] [23:45]
smickles Ukto: i was talking about s.dice tho [23:45]
smickles /¯(°_o)/¯ [23:45]
Ukto si? its still your fault. :P [23:45]
Ukto so* [23:45]
mircea_popescu http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/135379365668.png saved for prosterity. [23:47]
dub buy all the mpoehttp://p4r.buzzleberry.com/?p=481 [23:48]
dub oh hey [23:48]
mircea_popescu nice link. do you have a penis preocupation ? [23:49]
dub I like to draw them where I can [23:50]
dub Kato: Kurisu-san suggested we study different types of penises in order to create figure out the relative shape and size people would draw. We spent a week doing that before we realized that we should have been looking at drawings of penises rather than real-life pictures. (laughs) We were very embarrassed about that. [23:50]
dub Kurisu: My judgement on these types of situations is poor. (laughs) [23:50]
mircea_popescu you have got to be a total fuckwit to even attempt "moderating" penis doodles. [23:51]
mircea_popescu i have no idea what they do buyt i hope it fails miserably. [23:52]
* gigavps (~gigavps@184.89.201.201) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:57]
jurov lmao, looks like barebackbot impromptu found a new mpex bug indeed xD [23:59]
mircea_popescu do tell ? [23:59]
jurov will send email shortly [23:59]
* copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:59]
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