Forum logs for 23 Mar 2013

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	but still... why ?	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	"here's this thing i have no idea about. let me tell you how it goes"	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	ow fuck me	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	you know where all this gets started ? i bet you it's the insane habit of teaching kids to "guess" words based on context	[00:00]
error4733	after 100$ i guess we start to talk in cents ? Cbtc	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	rather than beat them until they learn the dictionary	[00:00]
Bowjob	lol mp	[00:01]
Bowjob	thats cruel	[00:01]
Bowjob	:p	[00:01]
mircea_popescu	i am serious. that's the fucking source	[00:01]
Bowjob	i happened to do well in english classes back in the day	[00:01]
deadweasel	english class*	[00:01]
Bowjob	well shit happens when you go out of school lol	[00:01]
mod6	mircea_popescu: yeah i dunno what that guy is on	[00:01]
mircea_popescu	lol deadweasel	[00:01]
mod6	he followed me too	[00:01]
mircea_popescu	mod6 im like, dude, so go short em already	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	"o no, too busy yakking"	[00:02]
Bowjob	"Well, congress uses imaginary money, so why not?"	[00:03]
Bowjob	best comment ever	[00:03]
Bowjob	""digital currency"? What's backing it? Ok, boom, I just made-up 6,000 bitcoins... keep the change!"	[00:04]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob actually i liked this 1 https://twitter.com/pete_earle/status/315213611452731393	[00:04]
Bowjob	yeap	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	would be pretty cool actually.	[00:06]
smickles	i like being inside mpoebot	[00:07]
smickles	:D	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	$markov	[00:07]
mpexbot	jurov because a. its much easier to parse and b. because the bot	[00:07]
mod6	(15:02) < mircea_popescu> "o no, too busy yakking" << yeah like wt	[00:07]
jurov	mpexbot is repeating itself	[00:08]
jurov	i remember he generated exactly the same text once	[00:08]
smickles	jurov: i think it's stopped adding new data for some reason	[00:09]
Bowjob	"digital currency"? What's backing it? Ok, boom, I just made-up 6,000 bitcoins... keep the change!	[00:09]
smickles	it's not a priority for me to figure it out	[00:09]
smickles	bowjobbot is repeating itself	[00:09]
Bowjob	oh did i	[00:09]
Bowjob	lol	[00:09]
mod6	that pete earle guy has it figured ou though	[00:09]
jurov	i guess [\] borkt it... cause of the backlashes	[00:09]
Bowjob	yes i did	[00:10]
smickles	jurov: heh, that would be funny actually	[00:10]
jurov	little imsa tables we call him	[00:10]
smickles	oh wow,	[00:11]
Bowjob	I dreamt that I got an asic, and I found a block	[00:11]
smickles	mpoebot is widening margins by leaps and bounds	[00:11]
Bowjob	then I woke up	[00:11]
Bowjob	lol	[00:11]
smickles	;;ticker	[00:12]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 70.30000, Best ask: 70.40000, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 70.30000, 24 hour volume: 75252.45726239, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.74999, 24 hour vwap: 70.77809	[00:12]
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benkay	flash crash?	[00:13]
benkay	we all iz po nao?	[00:13]
deadweasel	no doubt, benkay	[00:13]
benkay	deadweasel u still at work?	[00:13]
benkay	come hang out at bailey's, cuz	[00:14]
deadweasel	no, the woman is on the phone with her mother.	[00:14]
Bowjob	yeah, bears got trampled upon once again	[00:14]
deadweasel	how can you talkto your mother for that long?~?!	[00:15]
benkay	is there a channel for humans writing bitcoin software?	[00:15]
benkay	i don't mean bitcoin-dev	[00:15]
deadweasel	nice save	[00:15]
benkay	dude	[00:15]
benkay	the pedants in this area	[00:15]
Bowjob	i believe proudhon saved us from the crash.. he called BTC dropping	[00:15]
Bowjob	guys.. does anyone recall bfl josh saying he will commit seppuku if bfl asics dont get delivered by april?	[00:20]
Bowjob	Aha, found it	[00:24]
Bowjob	https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/632-getting-ready-april.html	[00:24]
Bowjob	misspelled seppuku,	[00:24]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00443 BTC [+]	[00:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 10 @ 0.00444 = 0.0444 BTC [+]	[00:24]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 100 @ 0.006 = 0.6 BTC [+]	[00:25]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.8098 = 1.6196 BTC [-]	[00:25]
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Bowjob	;;ticker	[00:29]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 69.50001, Best ask: 69.76622, Bid-ask spread: 0.26621, Last trade: 69.50000, 24 hour volume: 76705.51077553, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.74999, 24 hour vwap: 70.74349	[00:29]
Bowjob	;;goxlag	[00:29]
gribble	0 seconds	[00:29]
error4733	haha " You wouldn't have to commit Seppeku. You'd have an angry mob with pitchforks and flaming torches at the door....."	[00:29]
ThickAsThieves	he still has time i guess :/	[00:32]
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Bowjob	so basically we need to have him take a bath,	[00:33]
Bowjob	and we feed him his favourite food	[00:33]
Bowjob	then after that he performs hara kiri	[00:33]
Bowjob	we need a skilled swordsman as his second though...	[00:34]
error4733	i thinks a rafle for this joob is good idea	[00:34]
error4733	to many pp want the job	[00:34]
Bowjob	well, they need to perform it correctly. basically you want to cut his head, but with a little bit of flash left so that his head wont roll	[00:35]
Bowjob	since apparently heads rolling is unsightly in front of spectators and not graceful	[00:35]
error4733	challenge accepted	[00:35]
Bowjob	he has to stab himself from left, dragging the knife to his right,.. and pulling up his abdomen. after which, the pain would be so unbearable, that he would naturally elongate his neck for the swordsman	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	if anyone has the photochop skills : http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/rape-is-fun-or-lets-fuck-up-adria-richards/	[00:37]
ThickAsThieves	hrm	[00:39]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.545088 = 1.6353 BTC [-]	[00:39]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.545099 = 1.6353 BTC [+]	[00:40]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.5451 = 1.0902 BTC [+]	[00:40]
ThickAsThieves	does it have to be obviously RAPE	[00:40]
ThickAsThieves	rather than getting fukd	[00:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.8 = 2.4 BTC [-]	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves well, it's a contest	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	so far no entrants, so...	[00:40]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[00:40]
ThickAsThieves	i have the chops....	[00:40]
benkay	wow a 700 dollar reward?	[00:41]
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Bowjob	challenge accepted	[00:41]
mircea_popescu	go for it.	[00:41]
ThickAsThieves	lol at your wife checking your history and seeing "rape picz"	[00:42]
benkay	lol at anyone who has women in their life who are privileged to review history	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	im not married.	[00:43]
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Bowjob	;;ticker	[00:52]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 68.71999, Best ask: 68.72000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 68.72000, 24 hour volume: 77413.54084361, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.74999, 24 hour vwap: 70.70434	[00:53]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.199999 BTC [+]	[01:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C310T] 2 @ 0.56246444 = 1.1249 BTC [+]	[01:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.34 = 1.02 BTC [+]	[01:04]
error4733	mp : good on you !!	[01:04]
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MJR__	;;goxlag	[01:05]
gribble	3.936888 seconds	[01:05]
*	EPiSKiNG- is now known as EPiSKiNG-`	[01:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 35 @ 0.00448 = 0.1568 BTC [+]	[01:06]
*	EPiSKiNG-` is now known as EPiSKiNG-	[01:06]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00449 BTC [+]	[01:06]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 5 @ 0.004587 = 0.0229 BTC [+]	[01:06]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.004636 BTC [+]	[01:06]
smickles	;;calc 31/(1-.5624)	[01:07]
gribble	70.8409506399	[01:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00068477 = 4.588 BTC [+]	[01:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7662 @ 0.0006825 = 5.2293 BTC [-]	[01:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 788 @ 0.00068249 = 0.5378 BTC [-]	[01:08]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 5 @ 0.2 = 1 BTC [+]	[01:09]
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ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[01:09]
gribble	Current Blocks: 227471 \| Current Difficulty: 4847647.152065606 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 227807 \| Next Difficulty In: 336 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 10 hours, 54 minutes, and 32 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 6569364.63317 \| Estimated Percent Change: 35.51656	[01:09]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8097 BTC [+]	[01:10]
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ThickAsThieves	so do you guys think the trend of btc rising with mining diff will hold as we spike higher on diff?	[01:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.8097 = 1.6194 BTC [+]	[01:11]
smickles	if anything price lags behind diff as the miners try to sell at profitable rates, but for a while, i think most miners have not been cashing out. so it's not a good metric	[01:12]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.8097 = 1.6194 BTC [+]	[01:13]
ThickAsThieves	that sorta means it goes up either way, no? of course that's been the best guess for a while now...	[01:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 7 @ 0.16 = 1.12 BTC [+]	[01:14]
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smickles	well, everytime since ~jul 2011, when it gets this profitable to mine, it begins to be a lot less profitable to mine. caused by eithr diff increase or price drop. since we expect the diff to increase, the price may stabilize	[01:17]
smickles	maybe it works like this because large mine-ops want to exptect and force a given profit leve once they startup	[01:18]
smickles	maybe 65-75 will be the range for a while	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	maybe.	[01:22]
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MJR__	hi all	[01:27]
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mircea_popescu	ekki	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	ello*	[01:27]
MJR__	what's new mircea_popescu	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	nothing much really.	[01:28]
MJR__	cool	[01:28]
benkay	what's the btc-assets downlow on this bullshit: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2012/03/bitcoin-war-the-first-real-threat-to-bitcoin/	[01:30]
mod6	$vwap s.mpoe	[01:30]
mpexbot	mod6: 1 day: average: 0.00069382 high: 0.00072101 low: 0.00068249 volume: 79772 btc: 55.34760872 7 day: average: 0.00071976 high: 0.00077505 low: 0.00066743 volume: 3194689 btc: 2299.41829871 30 day: average: 0.00071193 high: 0.00078628 low: 0.00061614 volume: 35374137 btc: 25183.935095	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	"1. The entity may have discovered a method for increasing mining ROI, and essentially, is earning its 50 bitcoins per block"	[01:31]
smickles	benkay: fearmongering	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	i stopped there.	[01:31]
benkay	what's the deal with the empty txns tho	[01:33]
ThickAsThieves	couldnt they just further develop the stabdard bitcoin client to mine again, except take it further than cgminer, make it even easier to use and autodetect GPU/CPU power etc	[01:33]
ThickAsThieves	then we could have Red Alerts when shit went down	[01:33]
ThickAsThieves	and tell everyone to start mining	[01:33]
ThickAsThieves	if they wanna save bitcoin	[01:33]
ThickAsThieves	etc	[01:33]
benkay	not entirely a bad idea	[01:34]
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mircea_popescu	could be they just don't like the community.	[01:34]
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mod6	that guy is smoking crack	[01:35]
mod6	because its not all bots, i know for sure, because im not a bot - at least I don't think i am...	[01:35]
ThickAsThieves	my ISP thinks i have a bot infection	[01:35]
ThickAsThieves	when i started mining	[01:36]
ThickAsThieves	i got an email from comcast	[01:36]
mod6	haha	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	mod6 he's talking about the 15% miner that used to make empty blocks	[01:36]
ThickAsThieves	It essentially was warning that one of my computers may have been compromised and is exhibiting bot activity	[01:37]
mod6	oh we're talkin bout different things -- im talking about that twitter dillhole	[01:37]
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ThickAsThieves	also the idea of giving every bitcoiner mining power, ties in well with the idea of letting people mine to expedite their own transactions	[01:37]
ThickAsThieves	have a little mining power in cellphone app, etc	[01:38]
benkay_	hahahaha	[01:38]
benkay_	oh	[01:38]
benkay_	haha	[01:38]
benkay_	man	[01:38]
benkay_	and zero battery instantly	[01:38]
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smickles	ThickAsThieves: it would would probably have a very small impact	[01:38]
ThickAsThieves	probably,	[01:39]
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ThickAsThieves	but that impact may be able to stay proportional	[01:39]
ThickAsThieves	as bitcoin uptake increases in the world	[01:39]
smickles	it would waste people's electricity and longevity of their computers	[01:39]
ThickAsThieves	let em get rewards too then	[01:40]
ThickAsThieves	pool em	[01:40]
ThickAsThieves	just ideas	[01:40]
smickles	they would, and it would still be a waste ;)	[01:40]
ThickAsThieves	while none of this is perfect	[01:40]
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ThickAsThieves	i do think this kind of thinking can help mitigate the problem	[01:41]
ThickAsThieves	for example	[01:41]
ThickAsThieves	asics seem all powerful now	[01:41]
ThickAsThieves	but maybe every cell phone gets a couple 5th gen asic chips	[01:41]
MJR__	I had a great talk last night with Yifu	[01:41]
MJR__	there will be a next wave of more optimized	[01:42]
MJR__	better chips	[01:42]
MJR__	someone will do it	[01:42]
mircea_popescu	"Later update : The article originally used the word “photochop”. This is wrong, because the more photoshop is consistently used the closer Adobe gets to losing that trademark through it becoming generic. Please help the effort of stripping Adobe of its assets by always referring to altered images as “photoshops” rather than anything else. Thanks."	[01:43]
ThickAsThieves	we can get rid of bluetooth to make room	[01:43]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[01:43]
MJR__	that's cool	[01:43]
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Ukto	a new asset launched: https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC	[01:52]
benkay	wow and how the fuck am i supposed to know from the bitfunder website what this so-called "asset" actually is?	[01:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18728 @ 0.0007121 = 13.3362 BTC [+]	[01:54]
Ukto	benkay: details tab	[01:54]
ThickAsThieves	click Profile	[01:54]
ThickAsThieves	then click Description	[01:54]
Ukto	profiles, even	[01:54]
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Ukto	apparently he took the sell down to fix it	[01:55]
benkay	using Bitcoins to talk about bitcoins	[01:55]
benkay	super profesh	[01:55]
benkay	"we will also be buying shares of asic miner as they become reasonably priced"	[01:56]
benkay	yo dawhg	[01:56]
benkay	i herd u liked gambling	[01:56]
Ukto	heh, its their choice	[01:56]
Ukto	most things in bitcoin world are gambling	[01:56]
Ukto	exchanging, etc	[01:56]
benkay	rly?	[01:56]
Ukto	of some form or another	[01:56]
benkay	bitcoins have inherent value tho bro	[01:56]
Ukto	yeah, sell it one day	[01:56]
Ukto	the next day its double value	[01:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.4940001 = 2.47 BTC [-]	[01:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 20 @ 0.49400001 = 9.88 BTC [-]	[01:57]
benkay	you can't gamble with a thing's inherent value	[01:57]
benkay	nvm	[01:57]
benkay	that was going to take too much energy.	[01:57]
Ukto	probably. :)	[01:57]
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*	jurov promptly wrote some put options	[02:03]
smickles	;;ticker	[02:04]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 69.75500, Best ask: 69.99999, Bid-ask spread: 0.24499, Last trade: 69.99999, 24 hour volume: 73192.71947822, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.74999, 24 hour vwap: 70.64505	[02:04]
smickles	;;market --sell 15000	[02:04]
gribble	A market order to sell 15000 bitcoins right now would net 974132.1233 USD and would take the last price down to 62.0000 USD, resulting in an average price of 64.9421 USD/BTC. \| Data vintage: 0.0018 seconds	[02:04]
benkay	;;goxlag	[02:05]
gribble	0 seconds	[02:05]
smickles	;;bids 75	[02:05]
gribble	There are currently 0 bitcoins demanded at or over 75.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 28.0741 seconds	[02:05]
smickles	;;asks 75	[02:05]
gribble	There are currently 18428.25 bitcoins offered at or under 75.0 USD, worth 1356900.05522 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 35.7716 seconds	[02:05]
smickles	jurov: wth?	[02:05]
jurov	go to https://bitfunder.com/asset/AMC, click Options tab	[02:06]
smickles	oh, those kind of options	[02:06]
*	smickles was thinking mpex options	[02:06]
benkay	jurov, you expect AMC to keel over?	[02:10]
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jurov	just waiting for some reaction	[02:13]
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jurov	but they indeed have some right ingredients	[02:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 20 @ 0.09 = 1.8 BTC [-]	[02:14]
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benkay	right ingredients for what?	[02:15]
ThickAsThieves	keeling	[02:15]
jurov	to keel over	[02:15]
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benkay	just checking	[02:15]
benkay	what ingredients tripped your filters?	[02:15]
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jurov	for example	[02:16]
jurov	"The team has been involved with the Bitcoin project since 2009"	[02:16]
jurov	but no url, website, project, anything	[02:16]
ThickAsThieves	they want SO much money	[02:17]
ThickAsThieves	with so little to show	[02:17]
jurov	benkay such things really needs explanation?	[02:17]
mircea_popescu	mpoe-pr sez, get in the wot, build your history	[02:17]
mircea_popescu	people know better	[02:17]
mircea_popescu	two years later it's "we've been lurking since two years ago"	[02:17]
mircea_popescu	"prove it" "uhhhh"	[02:18]
benkay	i'm always interested in hearing about others' filters	[02:18]
benkay	i have my own	[02:18]
benkay	but the cool thing about mental immune systems is that they peer-bootstrap	[02:18]
benkay	shrug	[02:18]
*	darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[02:20]
mircea_popescu	benkay they're also difficult to package into words.	[02:21]
benkay	zomg writings r hard	[02:21]
jurov	AMC stands above all others as the most trusted ASIC Bitcoin Mining Cooperative and ASIC Developer.	[02:21]
benkay	i kid, i kid.	[02:21]
jurov	all scammers are full of trust	[02:21]
jurov	i think the word "trust" isn't even mentioned on coinbr website for example, quite the opposite	[02:22]
jurov	we just deliver	[02:22]
tiberiusiv	cavritex up close to 30%	[02:22]
benkay	bullshit talks	[02:22]
benkay	:)	[02:22]
tiberiusiv	since ipo	[02:22]
benkay	not calling your shop bullshit, jurov. describing actions of actors in community.	[02:23]
jurov	no, i was not implying that	[02:23]
*	darkee (~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:23]
mircea_popescu	he has a point tho. narcissism, niceness and all the rest of the social proof stuff correlates with social engineers.	[02:23]
*	GigicaViteazu (~Alin@2a02:2f0d:a100:fd:59:ebd8:29c8:1f1c) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:24]
benkay	the close on that quote is "gangsters walk"	[02:25]
smickles	anytime anyone says 'thank you' they are just trying to get you to do more shit for them in the future :P	[02:25]
benkay	duh	[02:25]
mircea_popescu	hahaha	[02:25]
benkay	why do you think I thank everyone for the things they do for me?	[02:25]
smickles	manipulative bastards	[02:25]
mircea_popescu	today waitress gave me check, made change, i refused it and instead of thank you	[02:26]
benkay	it's just manners, man	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	she said "i love you"	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	point in case.	[02:26]
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benkay	you probably tipped something absurd	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	not rly.	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	but tips are rare here.	[02:26]
smickles	oh, it's manners? so you are trying to put yourself in a seperate class :<	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	(also i've been there miltiple times but this iirc was the first time when i was alone)	[02:27]
benkay	there are already separate classes, smickles	[02:27]
benkay	some are born into them,	[02:27]
smickles	above me! ha! i has no manners	[02:27]
benkay	others have to learn.	[02:27]
benkay	some never do.	[02:27]
benkay	it's all just signaling	[02:27]
mircea_popescu	smickles old woman! who is your lord ?	[02:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1013 @ 0.0007121 = 0.7214 BTC [+]	[02:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25685 @ 0.00070622 = 18.1393 BTC [-]	[02:28]
smickles	in all srsness, manipulating people that way is almost always benificial and should be done	[02:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00068941 = 8.204 BTC [-]	[02:28]
smickles	it might even be such a good thing that it's why our species has done well	[02:29]
smickles	*partly why	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, why do people say "let's do it again sometime" instead of "thank you" :D	[02:29]
kakobrekla	look at the bitcoinland	[02:29]
kakobrekla	we are not doing well at all!	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla ty.	[02:29]
kakobrekla	fuckin monkeys.	[02:29]
kakobrekla	ah stfu mp :D	[02:30]
smickles	mircea_popescu: they probably just mean the same thing	[02:30]
smickles	or they are just letting the matrix slip out a little	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	see, kako is manipulating me into having sex with his gf.	[02:30]
smickles	so to speak	[02:30]
kakobrekla	hehe	[02:30]
kakobrekla	glwt	[02:30]
smickles	oh, that reminds me	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	poor ms smickles.	[02:31]
smickles	mircea_popescu: my wife declined your invitation to romania for sex dungeon activities	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	o.o	[02:31]
smickles	hehe	[02:32]
mircea_popescu	wait. i forgot all about this. when was she scheduled to appear ?	[02:32]
smickles	well, considering it was a joke, i don't think we made solid arrangements	[02:32]
mircea_popescu	a joke, he says.	[02:32]
smickles	prolly her loss anyway	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	Mar 22 19:44:50 99% of the time you're serious	[02:33]
*	benkay has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	^	[02:33]
mircea_popescu	now im gonna have to call my berber connection, kidnam moar circassian chix	[02:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 3 @ 0.009899 = 0.0297 BTC [+]	[02:34]
*	GigicaViteazu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[02:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01989 BTC [+]	[02:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0199 BTC [+]	[02:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10794 @ 0.00068613 = 7.4061 BTC [-]	[02:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.8096 = 4.8576 BTC [-]	[02:44]
*	benkay (~benkay@c-71-193-200-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:50]
*	thepok (~thepok@068-112-109-134.csn.tu-chemnitz.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:56]
jurov	AMC CEO/CTO, Kenneth(Ken) E. Slaughter - that's true name?	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	kinda common name	[02:59]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [-]	[03:08]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 10 @ 0.00404 = 0.0404 BTC [-]	[03:10]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00403 BTC [-]	[03:10]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 20 @ 0.00402 = 0.0804 BTC [-]	[03:10]
*	thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[03:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.009899 BTC [+]	[03:13]
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benkay	heh	[03:15]
benkay	"no salaries will be paid as an expense"	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	don't trust anyone from Argentina or Brazil; or Russia or Ukraine, etc.	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	don't trust anyone from Florida	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	lol jcpham	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	why not china ?	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	"a good deal is rarely time sensitive." that's plain untrue.	[03:18]
benkay	gotcha	[03:18]
benkay	http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=80003437&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=z8WH&locale=en_US&srchid=e8237cef-3548-4ffc-9811-1de442f6ebcb-0&srchindex=6&srchtotal=24&goback=%2Efps_PBCK_1_Ken_Slaughter_1_1_1_1_2_1_Y_1_1_1_false_1_R_1_51_1_51_true_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_name_link	[03:18]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 7 @ 0.8096 = 5.6672 BTC [-]	[03:19]
benkay	homie has 3 linkedin connections	[03:20]
benkay	a self-described "experienced software executive"	[03:20]
benkay	he may actually have some cloud experience	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	ahh, the executive.	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	you know they have "Executive toilets" in the states now ?	[03:21]
benkay	"I have people for that"	[03:21]
benkay	nudge nudge mp	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	unlike the common toilets, these are really executive	[03:21]
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benkay	they bring a new level of professionalism to executing your movements	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	+ they have experience	[03:22]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8096 BTC [-]	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	"For this type of service (and most others) #bitcoin-otc is old and completely irrelevant."	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	why the butthurt ?	[03:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.5499 BTC [+]	[03:23]
benkay	bitcoin-otc is currently involved in a biblical discussion	[03:27]
benkay	amc may have a point	[03:27]
tiberiusiv	mircea: romania needs to be added to that list	[03:28]
benkay	so	[03:30]
benkay	given the state of the crap that is otc	[03:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00068249 = 3.6854 BTC [-]	[03:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.528999 = 1.058 BTC [+]	[03:34]
mircea_popescu	totally.	[03:39]
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kakobrekla	!r unbalanced_away	[03:42]
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Bowjob	;;ticker	[04:02]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 69.12739, Best ask: 69.48999, Bid-ask spread: 0.36260, Last trade: 69.12740, 24 hour volume: 71874.62529399, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.74999, 24 hour vwap: 70.57386	[04:02]
*	Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-89-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.34 = 0.68 BTC [+]	[04:06]
*	Bowjob has quit (Quit: Page closed)	[04:06]
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*	blacktape (~nodebot@ec2-184-72-82-164.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:10]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.5289 = 2.6445 BTC [-]	[04:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.5499 = 2.7495 BTC [+]	[04:18]
ThickAsThieves	jurov are you there?	[04:22]
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jurov	ThickAsThieves i'm here.. thanks to psu failure	[04:29]
jurov	hopefully nobody noticed	[04:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00068249 = 10.135 BTC [-]	[04:33]
ThickAsThieves	any coinbr-ers want my referral?	[04:33]
jurov	wish you good luck but i think it doesn't work that way xD	[04:34]
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jurov	better to lurk till someone comes and asks	[04:34]
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jurov	here, on -otc, on reddit, and else	[04:35]
ThickAsThieves	what i mean is	[04:35]
ThickAsThieves	i'm registering	[04:35]
jurov	ah so	[04:36]
ThickAsThieves	i have an idea	[04:37]
ThickAsThieves	i'll give it to Deprived	[04:37]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.528999 = 1.058 BTC [+]	[04:37]
jurov	is he around ? or i can look up deprived's code for you?	[04:38]
ThickAsThieves	yeah you can do that	[04:38]
ThickAsThieves	i'll pm him	[04:38]
jurov	his refcode is: 86wnxLBgte	[04:43]
*	bolgon (~bolgon@23.29.120.218) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:44]
jurov	hope he won't be angry that referral credits will mess with his neat accounting :)	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/m356871-print.aspx	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	the public is indignant. chilled salad fork!!	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	stupid idea	[04:46]
ThickAsThieves	he can add it his ATF then	[04:46]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[04:46]
benkay	all the money in the world	[04:46]
benkay	and mircea_popescu spends his time browsing prole food review sites	[04:47]
benkay	that's...	[04:47]
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benkay	a new kind of slumming.	[04:47]
benkay	same as the old kind.	[04:47]
mircea_popescu	actually i got that sent to me :D	[04:47]
*	blacktape (~nodebot@ec2-107-22-153-48.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:47]
ThickAsThieves	the whole thing is chilling	[04:48]
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benkay	apologies for blacktape noise, all	[04:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.5289 BTC [-]	[04:50]
benkay	but in the grand tradition of bitcoin-assets	[04:51]
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benkay	today we test in production	[04:51]
benkay	well	[04:51]
benkay	staging	[04:51]
benkay	but same diff.	[04:51]
*	blacktape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[04:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8883 @ 0.00068326 = 6.0694 BTC [+]	[04:52]
jurov	yea. and replugging PSU's on live servers.	[04:54]
jurov	well, all seems fine now, any other coinbr-related requests?	[04:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8095 BTC [-]	[04:56]
jurov	so, goodnight then	[05:04]
ThickAsThieves	nite	[05:04]
Namworld	About the AMC thing, I like the name on the invoice for their ASIC miners.	[05:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11421 @ 0.00068249 = 7.7947 BTC [-]	[05:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7414 @ 0.000675 = 5.0045 BTC [-]	[05:11]
Namworld	Ken Slaughter	[05:11]
benkay	he's a real human	[05:11]
benkay	http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=80003437&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=z8WH&locale=en_US&srchid=e8237cef-3548-4ffc-9811-1de442f6ebcb-0&srchindex=6&srchtotal=24&goback=%2Efps_PBCK_1_Ken_Slaughter_1_1_1_1_2_1_Y_1_1_1_false_1_R_1_51_1_51_true_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_name_link	[05:12]
Namworld	The name is promising for investors.	[05:13]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8095 BTC [-]	[05:18]
*	Thinker_ (~Thinker~@cpe-24-59-184-164.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:22]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01401 BTC [-]	[05:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 3 @ 0.000678 = 0.002 BTC [-]	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	lol	[05:30]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.78211 = 4.6927 BTC [-]	[05:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00068326 = 1.9815 BTC [+]	[05:32]
*	copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[05:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 100 @ 0.005 = 0.5 BTC [-]	[05:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.0048 BTC [-]	[05:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 100 @ 0.004 = 0.4 BTC [-]	[05:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 100 @ 0.003 = 0.3 BTC [-]	[05:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.5499 = 1.6497 BTC [+]	[05:36]
*	copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:37]
*	Bowjob (4b9d1e75@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.157.30.117) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:41]
Bowjob	wew	[05:41]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[05:41]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 68.54301, Best ask: 68.99999, Bid-ask spread: 0.45698, Last trade: 68.99999, 24 hour volume: 68403.53313381, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.74998, 24 hour vwap: 70.35406	[05:41]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m ^oix	[05:43]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 51.16975919 / 66.68063398 / 67.41250707 (39315 shares, 9,083.51 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[05:43]
mircea_popescu	i wonder.	[05:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4978 @ 0.00068102 = 3.3901 BTC [-]	[05:45]
Bowjob	80 by next week	[05:49]
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Namworld	next month 1000, two month from then, 1 000 000	[05:51]
Namworld	exponential growth and whatnot	[05:51]
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Namworld	I wonder where it would actually be if we calculated the exponential curve's formula and determined the expected price in 2 months based on that...	[05:52]
Namworld	then on month 3, 0.01 per BTC, the month after 666 per BTC	[05:53]
Namworld	at which point humanity gets diagnosed with insanity and gets locked away on a rock floating in space.	[05:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 15 @ 0.78211 = 11.7317 BTC [-]	[05:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.78211 = 3.9106 BTC [-]	[06:01]
Namworld	(clarification notes: I'm getting tired of the price going wild)	[06:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18622 @ 0.00068102 = 12.682 BTC [-]	[06:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 778 @ 0.000675 = 0.5252 BTC [-]	[06:25]
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cads	hey guys, I'd like to learn about the leading thinkers in the BTC assets realm, and learn about the current state of the art	[06:31]
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cads	I have a couple professors as school which I am prepared to bug about how we may build options valuation on top of BTC options	[06:39]
cads	but I'm actually pretty ignorant about the topic and would love to talk to someone that could help me sketch out the expected phases if a research project intending to produce option valuation model	[06:40]
cads	I think it may be difficult to do this absent a risk free interest rate, but I'd love to hear someone's enlightened thoughts on that	[06:41]
Namworld	Hello	[06:45]
cads	hey Namworld	[06:46]
Namworld	Could you give some more details about what you'd like to know exactly?	[06:46]
cads	mostly I'd like to hear ideas about how the design of BTC currency Options will likely proceed	[06:49]
cads	and to discover what my best next action should be	[06:49]
Namworld	Well there's already plenty of options for BTC	[06:50]
Namworld	I can't really see much more that what's already available.	[06:50]
cads	hrm, I should make it clear that I want to design valuation methods for BTC options	[06:51]
Namworld	hmm... valuation methods? In what sense?	[06:53]
cads	well, for example, the Black-Scholes formula tries to give a price for European-style options.	[06:54]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.529 = 2.116 BTC [+]	[06:55]
Namworld	hmm... perhaps you could ask mircea. MPEx's bot happens to put bids and asks on options traded at the exchange. I am unsure how it is done.	[06:56]
Namworld	Although it's probably proprietary.	[06:56]
Namworld	and not going to be disclosed.	[06:56]
cads	sure	[06:56]
cads	sounds cool, thanks Namworld	[06:57]
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mircea_popescu	cads you can probably start by reading up on mpoe, yea.	[07:07]
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mircea_popescu	there's been ~2mn notional traded this month, should count for something.	[07:11]
Namworld	He wants to know how to valuate options tho... not an easy thing to answer	[07:12]
mircea_popescu	indeed.	[07:13]
Franktank	Has anyone heard about the new AMC IPO on BitFunder? Curious on other folks thoughts	[07:14]
mircea_popescu	tho what he stated was "the current state of the art". well... the current state of the art is 356`139 option contracts traded this month.	[07:14]
mircea_popescu	Franktank i've seen some not so impressed people comment but i've not looked into it myself.	[07:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00067912 = 3.3956 BTC [+]	[07:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16808 @ 0.000675 = 11.3454 BTC [-]	[07:15]
Namworld	Ken... Slaughter...	[07:16]
Namworld	The names says it.	[07:16]
Franktank	Just saw it recently, they appear to be banking their initial revenue on incoming Avalon units (batches 2 and 3) and R&D on an ASIC chip	[07:16]
Namworld	The name*	[07:16]
Franktank	Startups appear to be the rage these days	[07:17]
Namworld	I have a hard time believe R&D part.	[07:17]
Namworld	believing*	[07:17]
mircea_popescu	Franktank really, they do ? i've not seen a good start-up in months.	[07:17]
mircea_popescu	or you mean, the rage as to what's a good something to pretend you're doing these days ?	[07:18]
cads	mircea, I am unfamiliar with mpoe. Main point of entry?	[07:18]
mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/sa-ne-jucam-de-a-investitiile-n-bitcoini/#comment-78745	[07:19]
mircea_popescu	that's the charter as it were	[07:19]
mircea_popescu	MPOE has been trading btc/usd options since august 2011, there's published monthly reports etc.	[07:19]
cads	remarkable!	[07:20]
cads	hey mircea, what's BTC like in romania?	[07:21]
mircea_popescu	how do you mean ?	[07:21]
*	cads recognizes your name and some of the page content as romanian	[07:21]
tiberiusiv	well the gypsies cant get to it	[07:22]
cads	hehe	[07:22]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[07:22]
cads	give it a year	[07:22]
cads	if you think we don't have technogypsies you're wrong	[07:22]
cads	;)	[07:23]
tiberiusiv	mircea: 2mn notional of BTC?	[07:23]
mircea_popescu	2mn notional of dollars.	[07:23]
mircea_popescu	tho i missed a zero.	[07:23]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 356139 * [mtgox --last]	[07:23]
gribble	Error: "mtgox" is not a valid command.	[07:23]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 356139 * [gox --last]	[07:23]
gribble	Error: "gox" is not a valid command.	[07:23]
mircea_popescu	da fuck is it ?	[07:23]
cads	;;calc 356139 * [mt-gox --last]	[07:24]
gribble	Error: "mt-gox" is not a valid command.	[07:24]
cads	:P	[07:24]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[07:24]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 68.10000, Best ask: 68.24000, Bid-ask spread: 0.14000, Last trade: 68.10000, 24 hour volume: 69191.85990614, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.70000, 24 hour vwap: 70.19614	[07:24]
tiberiusiv	mircea: how safe is supercar ownership in romania?	[07:24]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 356139 * 68.1	[07:24]
gribble	24253065.9	[07:24]
mircea_popescu	tiberiusiv about as safe as upstate ny.	[07:25]
tiberiusiv	mircea: so what do the girls say about a multi millionaire using 15 year old CRT monitors and staying in littered rooms?	[07:25]
cads	mircea_popescu: thanks for linking me to the charter	[07:25]
mircea_popescu	tiberiusiv haha i'll have to ask i guess.	[07:26]
jcpham	am i missing eskimobob right now?	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	you're getting old aren't you :D	[07:27]
tiberiusiv	franktank: i thought avalon was using batch #2 money to pay for batch #1	[07:27]
jcpham	will he show up if i say his name?	[07:27]
tiberiusiv	and hoping profits make up the shortfall	[07:27]
cads	mircea_popescu: are the american romanian girls just all the pretty girls from romania, or are the girls even prettier back home?	[07:27]
tiberiusiv	cads: most romanians immigrate to canada	[07:27]
tiberiusiv	not US	[07:27]
mircea_popescu	tiberiusiv amusingly, asicminer is using batch 2 chips to make up for blown batch 1 and avalon is using batch 2 money to pay for batch 1. it's like... all the same company.	[07:27]
tiberiusiv	LOL	[07:28]
mircea_popescu	cads eeuropean girls are pretty hot in general.	[07:28]
cads	tiberiusiv: this is why I always thought it strange to find myself in georgia!	[07:28]
mircea_popescu	from poland to georgia yeah.	[07:28]
cads	aka red neck capital of the world	[07:28]
jcpham	girls...	[07:28]
jcpham	no comment	[07:28]
tiberiusiv	poland is an undervalued region	[07:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2618 @ 0.00067092 = 1.7565 BTC [-]	[07:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1582 @ 0.00068326 = 1.0809 BTC [+]	[07:29]
tiberiusiv	cads: US girls are too manly	[07:29]
mircea_popescu	cads what school is that anyway ?	[07:29]
*	cads likes a woman with small breasts, a lack of fashion, and a math phd.	[07:30]
mircea_popescu	tiberiusiv just bad diet for the most part.	[07:30]
*	cads is like the opposite of the standard romanian man	[07:30]
tiberiusiv	cads none of that fits EU girls?	[07:30]
mircea_popescu	cads http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/135422020536.jpg which one ?	[07:30]
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cads	mircea_popescu: oh dear jesus both please!	[07:31]
mircea_popescu	lol	[07:31]
tiberiusiv	cads: so you arent a neanderthal?	[07:31]
mircea_popescu	so cads really likes sisters.	[07:31]
cads	mircea_popescu: they look like conjoined sisters	[07:31]
cads	both sprouting out of that gorgeous butt	[07:31]
mircea_popescu	cajoled at the hyip	[07:31]
tiberiusiv	BTC sellers becoming motivated	[07:32]
mircea_popescu	lol the ogre girl of czech republic.	[07:32]
mircea_popescu	one great bubblebutt, two heads, 4 tits	[07:32]
cads	mircea_popescu: okay, which of these 3 lovely MIT students do you choose: http://philip.greenspun.com/images/pcd2668/three-graces-straight-full-27	[07:33]
mircea_popescu	hahaha greenspun ?	[07:33]
mircea_popescu	i thought im the only one that still remembers that old codger	[07:34]
cads	famous photography. Titled "3 Graces"	[07:34]
cads	they're all undergrads	[07:34]
mircea_popescu	but none.	[07:34]
mircea_popescu	wasn't he dating the one on the lft ?	[07:34]
cads	mircea_popescu: you're correct	[07:34]
cads	the correct answer is "I"m sorry, none of them have PhDs"	[07:34]
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mircea_popescu	what's the guy up to these days, you have him ?	[07:35]
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cads	mircea_popescu: I only know a little lore about him - I'm not a student of MIT	[07:36]
mircea_popescu	ah. right, you said school earlier, what school is that ?	[07:36]
cads	georgia state	[07:36]
mircea_popescu	learn something every day.	[07:37]
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cads	aye	[07:38]
cads	mircea_popescu, I think I must have seen your name around the BTC sites and community before today.	[07:38]
cads	that or you've published some paper or something	[07:39]
mircea_popescu	it's possible.	[07:39]
cads	what's your academic background?	[07:39]
mircea_popescu	philosophy/anthropology	[07:39]
mircea_popescu	gah where's that pastie	[07:39]
cads	hah, a nice yet tractable jump to BTC :)	[07:40]
mircea_popescu	my blog readers kept insisting.	[07:40]
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cads	hey mircea, Namworld mentions that you run an automatic optinos trading bot. Would you mind attesting to the veracity of that fact?	[07:42]
cads	ah yes, optinos - the quantum unit of financial options.	[07:43]
cads	mircea_popescu: if you do not wish to mention any details about it that is perfectly fine	[07:44]
mircea_popescu	you ever seen http://mpex.co/ ?	[07:44]
cads	not before right now	[07:45]
mircea_popescu	lol ok	[07:45]
mircea_popescu	http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/289947-republican-proposes-letting-lawmakers-work-from-home << anonymous approves.	[07:46]
cads	hey mircea_popescu, I just noticed the romanian version of your charter	[07:50]
cads	rock on!	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	yee	[07:50]
*	cads will be able to share it with his dad	[07:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 7 @ 0.5499 = 3.8493 BTC [+]	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	sharing is caring!	[07:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 6 @ 0.5499 = 3.2994 BTC [+]	[07:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 9 @ 0.55 = 4.95 BTC [+]	[07:52]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.55 = 2.75 BTC [+]	[07:52]
Namworld	VTX doing incredibly well I believe	[07:54]
mircea_popescu	!ticker havelock vtc	[07:54]
mircea_popescu	!ticker havelock vtx	[07:54]
assbot	Yeah. No damn tobacco, that's for sure.	[07:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:VTX] 1D: 0.44980000 / 0.52045992 / 0.55000000 (308 shares, 160.30165433 BTC), 7D: 0.38280000 / 0.39820061 / 0.55000000 (10343 shares, 4118.58893151 BTC), 30D: 0.38280000 / 0.39820061 / 0.55000000 (10343 shares, 4118.58893151 BTC)	[07:54]
mircea_popescu	indeed, not bad at all.	[07:55]
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mircea_popescu	what was rthe story there, 30% sold for 5k btc ?	[07:56]
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cads	mircea_popescu: as of this moment what I see when I look at mpex.co is a hellacious mass of legal jargon smattered with quantitative data readouts :)	[07:59]
mircea_popescu	sounds about right.	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the O.BTCUSD stuff, those are all option lines	[08:00]
cads	I'm glad I'm not hallucinating, then. :)	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	mpex stands as an insult to the intelligence of the average voter.	[08:00]
cads	mircea_popescu: oh thanks to dogs there is a faq.	[08:03]
mircea_popescu	that won't help.	[08:03]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.564555 = 1.1291 BTC [+]	[08:03]
cads	who the fuck coded all this?	[08:03]
mircea_popescu	evil people.	[08:04]
cads	I want to shake his hand and punch him at the same time	[08:04]
cads	no offense, if this is you	[08:04]
cads	I may even mean that as a compliment	[08:04]
mircea_popescu	it's not me.	[08:05]
mircea_popescu	a good section of tools etc were actually developed by community peeps	[08:05]
mircea_popescu	like pympex, coinbr, there's also a windows gui and a phone one in the works	[08:05]
mircea_popescu	therre's a creeds towards the end	[08:06]
cads	I can generally eventually converge on an understanding of technojargon, even without help	[08:07]
cads	but it usually requires a few in depth readings, and some secondary reference material	[08:07]
cads	right now I'm not reading anything technical with the intention of trying to understand it :)	[08:07]
mircea_popescu	well, you can go through the MPEx category on trilema, there's a lot of stuff there	[08:08]
mircea_popescu	also a lot of fluff	[08:08]
cads	so mpex is a software framework for deploying exchanges	[08:08]
mircea_popescu	no, it's an exchange.	[08:08]
cads	options exchanges*	[08:08]
mircea_popescu	S.* are equities.	[08:08]
mircea_popescu	X.* are futures	[08:08]
cads	mircea_popescu: do we still have to pay 30 BTC in fees for account registration?	[08:10]
cads	http://mpex.co/faq.html#3	[08:10]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[08:10]
cads	and the investors can justify this cost in expected revenue?	[08:12]
*	cads doesn't know what rabbit hole he has stumbled into, but he likes it	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	it is deep.	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	anyway, mpex is bitcoin's nyse	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	average investors are not expected to buy themselves a seat at the exchange	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	and most wouldn't know what to do with it if they had it.	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	but, for high volume or sophisticated peeps it's a nice perk.	[08:14]
cads	can I learn what investors at the exchange do?	[08:14]
Namworld	I already paid the cost of the seat plenty	[08:14]
mircea_popescu	cads they issue orders	[08:14]
Namworld	trade shares, mostly	[08:14]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, since option stuff was your main interest, read up on the oix	[08:15]
mircea_popescu	;;g mpex oix	[08:15]
gribble	Error: "g" is not a valid command.	[08:15]
mircea_popescu	;;google mpex oix	[08:15]
gribble	MPEx, the Bitcoin securities exchange.: ; o.btcusd.c290n - MPEx, the Bitcoin securities exchange.: ; nat.routers - MPEx, the Bitcoin securities exchange.:	[08:15]
cads	and what must they do, from a decision making standpoint - average investors make decisions based on gut. Do these investors use quant as well?	[08:15]
mircea_popescu	jesus that's useless.	[08:16]
mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/introducing-the-oix/ there	[08:16]
mircea_popescu	they mustn't do anything. they do what they please,. buy, sell , whatever	[08:16]
cads	I mean only that it seems they must guarantee that their decisions are of high quality	[08:17]
cads	or else they risk wasting the sizeable initial fee	[08:18]
mircea_popescu	i don't follow the logic	[08:18]
cads	and am wondering what additional decision making measures these investors generally adopt, above and beyond basic investment strategies	[08:19]
mircea_popescu	there was a 10k btc buy of S.DICE in one go at some point.	[08:19]
mircea_popescu	the fee hardly figures in this discussion	[08:19]
cads	do investors in mpex generally pay their own analysts, for example?	[08:19]
mircea_popescu	i would imagine some do	[08:19]
mircea_popescu	probably most do at least some themselves.	[08:19]
cads	since I'm most interested in options, and since these traditionally have theory, I'm now wondering if any of these guys have paid analysts to derive appropriatate new pricing models for these options	[08:21]
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cads	mircea_popescu: what type of option is traded on the mpex?	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	american settled on last friday of each month	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	T is current N is next month	[08:22]
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cads	mircea_popescu: how much money is good enough to play?	[08:25]
cads	"if you have to ask...."	[08:25]
mircea_popescu	last calculation i recall something like 2k btc total trade volume justifies the fee	[08:26]
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mircea_popescu	you know it occurs to me... when new person takes an hour just to gaze at the edges of this thing...	[08:26]
mircea_popescu	you know you've built something.	[08:26]
cads	mircea_popescu: so I could work with a 500 BTC base an recoup the entry cost over a handful of months?	[08:26]
cads	mircea_popescu: haha, what a very romanian sentiment :)	[08:27]
mircea_popescu	is it ?	[08:27]
mircea_popescu	anyway, mpex charges .2% seller only. if you make .5 round trip then .3 difference will yiueld 30 btc over 10k traded.	[08:27]
mircea_popescu	but this is just a sidepoint. if you're looking to invest btc what are you going to do ?	[08:28]
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Bowjob	;;ticker	[08:29]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 67.11000, Best ask: 67.29998, Bid-ask spread: 0.18998, Last trade: 67.29998, 24 hour volume: 67513.96570233, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 69.98189	[08:29]
Bowjob	ouch	[08:29]
mircea_popescu	o we shed a dolla ?	[08:29]
mircea_popescu	was 68.1 an ghour ago	[08:29]
cads	mircea_popescu: at this point I'd like only to understand how to imagine, visualize, and refine an mpex investment strategy	[08:31]
cads	mircea_popescu: do you play chess?	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	sometimes yea	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	anyway, btc investment strategies are an intellectual contribution	[08:31]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.571002 BTC [+]	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	the thing is new, price data extends little in the past, there's a lot of weirdness in the market	[08:32]
mircea_popescu	so the more people thinking about it the better, a fertile field as it's called.	[08:32]
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mircea_popescu	certainly the best phds of the future will b done on bitcoin/mpex/whatever	[08:32]
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cads	mircea_popescu: I see it as a low entry cost into a promising finance research field	[08:35]
cads	mircea_popescu: yeah, even if mpex and btc are superseded, what agents learn about this market will be valuable in the future	[08:35]
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mircea_popescu	it certainly used to be very low cost	[08:36]
mircea_popescu	with the current run up i'm not sure i'd call it low cost, but it IS moderate	[08:36]
mircea_popescu	especially considering what training traders costs on the fiat markets.	[08:36]
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cads	mircea_popescu: at least I will not be competing with well established finance phds already working in the field :)	[08:36]
cads	I can turn this into a virtual finance university in time	[08:37]
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mircea_popescu	you will be.	[08:37]
cads	using BTC and its derivatives as the lesson ground and the tournament ground for the students	[08:37]
mircea_popescu	i would guess about a third of the best minds of this generation are more or less discreetly circling the matter.	[08:37]
mircea_popescu	even leaving aside the conference trail clowns, the ideological types and all the geek weirdoes,	[08:38]
mircea_popescu	it still leaves a lot of people	[08:38]
cads	well I'd better know how to speak bitcoin before the hiring managers at large hedge funds realize it :)	[08:38]
mircea_popescu	certainly will be a career, no doubt in my mind.	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	even tiny minute things done in five minutes today will be a career down the road.	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	and mpex is all about creating a market and bulding an ecosystem, so.	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	this will be pushed forward.	[08:39]
cads	I think it will determine the long term fate of the btc	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[08:41]
cads	in the sense that derivatives is what will give BTC the depth and complexity needed to take on the real world	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	where's that arms quote	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	{mircea_popescu} people don’t understand many things, chief among which that the world is at war, and finance is the means of that war.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	{mircea_popescu} mpex is here to arm bitcoin with all the high impact high efficiency weapons fiat currencies have.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	there.	[08:41]
cads	bam	[08:42]
cads	effective metaphor	[08:42]
Bowjob	hey mp, some people are bitching that they bet on the Avalon bet	[08:46]
Bowjob	because they thought it includes batch 2	[08:46]
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mircea_popescu	well... some people will always bitch about something	[08:46]
Bowjob	so its locked in then	[08:47]
Bowjob	lol	[08:47]
Bowjob	they think they;ll win by technicality since at the time, batch 2 was included	[08:48]
*	cads suddenly wished he had a commissioned art work	[08:48]
mircea_popescu	yeah well, people thinking they'll leech everyone else don't historically do so well on bitbet	[08:48]
mircea_popescu	there were people who waited for btc/usd to be 49.99 before betting	[08:48]
cads	some plan to design a building for someone	[08:48]
mircea_popescu	only to discover that no, bitcoin is not instantaneous	[08:48]
*	Transisto (~TransistO@bas2-quebec03-1176410709.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:49]
*	KRS1 (~foo@c-50-143-86-143.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:49]
*	cads will take this as indication that he should in fact try drafting a design for the physical BTC exchange	[08:49]
KRS1	Am I wrong by saying it looks like the market has peaked and is now heading downward?	[08:49]
KRS1	mt gox	[08:50]
Bowjob	http://store.avalon-asics.com/	[08:50]
cads	KRS1: not even wrong :)	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	cads someone's sorta-playing with making a hm	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	what's that virtual reality game ? not second life, the other one	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	the one with the bricks and hats	[08:50]
cads	hm?	[08:50]
Bowjob	tf2?	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	ya	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	a tf2 mpex	[08:50]
Bowjob	what about it	[08:50]
Bowjob	i have 1800 hrs clocked in that game	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	that sounds like a lot.	[08:51]
cads	yeah, games are nice, but trade center plans are nicer	[08:51]
Bowjob	yah	[08:51]
mircea_popescu	KRS1 looks pretty likely yea	[08:51]
Bowjob	well, half of it is probably done through trading	[08:51]
cads	despite not being... entirely needed at the time	[08:51]
Bowjob	and idling	[08:51]
Bowjob	and avalon released batch 3 already	[08:51]
KRS1	thx	[08:52]
mircea_popescu	it had to peak out eventually.	[08:52]
mircea_popescu	75ish is honorable.	[08:52]
cads	KRS1: aww that's cute how you treat mircea_popescu as the BTC godfather	[08:52]
Namworld	Is it really peaking tho? It's weekend and price seems to be holding	[08:52]
Bowjob	weekend dip	[08:53]
mircea_popescu	Namworld well... we won't know till next week	[08:53]
Bowjob	*yawn	[08:53]
Namworld	I can't wait to see	[08:53]
Namworld	I'd really like to see the 100 breached.	[08:53]
mircea_popescu	but beart in mind, 2 consecutive red days	[08:53]
mircea_popescu	first time this rally.	[08:53]
Namworld	That would be newsworthy	[08:53]
KRS1	I treaded mircea_popescu how?	[08:53]
Namworld	Yeah, well it's got to be losing steam by now	[08:53]
KRS1	Avalon seemed to have raied their prices?	[08:54]
mircea_popescu	yea.	[08:54]
cads	KRS1: hehe, no worries, it was just some meaningless teasing	[08:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8150 @ 0.00067526 = 5.5034 BTC [-]	[08:54]
Bowjob	its based on btc now	[08:54]
mircea_popescu	tbh, from a macro perspective 100+ is prolly too much.	[08:55]
mircea_popescu	there's such a thing as too much attention, and so forth	[08:55]
Bowjob	You are showing your outward anger because you know you make close to no sense. If anything, this statement is worded vaguely enough that it should be considered a bad bet. The bottom line is that if you go by the betting statement wording and the dates, there are two batches under pre-order. Good attempt to sway betting action by writing a ridiculously vague statement, though. Read the betting statement word for word as it's	[08:55]
Bowjob	http://bitbet.us/bet/269/avalon-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-april-1st/	[08:55]
Bowjob	Bah, idk about those butthurt trolls	[08:56]
Bowjob	your call mp	[08:56]
mircea_popescu	there's a site mod team, what.	[08:56]
mircea_popescu	theyll figure it out	[08:56]
Bowjob	ah	[08:56]
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KRS1	cads: thats cool idk what you meant ..its all good..just came in for some mt gox market wisdom wanted to sell btc before the market dips as all markets do	[08:59]
mircea_popescu	https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/315357147934375936	[08:59]
mircea_popescu	me helping out "coding entrepreneurs", whatever the fuck that is now.	[09:00]
mircea_popescu	"executive geek"	[09:00]
TradeFortress_	"jQuery rockstar"	[09:01]
mircea_popescu	right	[09:01]
mircea_popescu	"pillow girlfriend"	[09:01]
KRS1	im still waiting for my BFL SC I ordered in Aug. anyone know anything about that?	[09:02]
mircea_popescu	o boy.	[09:02]
Bowjob	we hit 66	[09:02]
mircea_popescu	seems like that's a write-off, KRS1	[09:02]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[09:02]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 66.66000, Best ask: 66.99995, Bid-ask spread: 0.33995, Last trade: 66.99997, 24 hour volume: 65609.91092104, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 69.91589	[09:02]
mircea_popescu	66.66 no less.	[09:02]
Bowjob	number of the beast	[09:02]
Bowjob	with an extra 6	[09:02]
KRS1	i was wobbed huh	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	KRS1 http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/preemptive-strike-to-have-on-hand-for-when-butterfly-labs-gets-hauled-off-to-jail-in-corpore/	[09:03]
TradeFortress_	wonder if it's because it's real hard to buy btc right now	[09:03]
KRS1	great..	[09:03]
Bowjob	this sucks for people who bought in at 75	[09:03]
KRS1	my friend has some actual BFL hardware but not ASIC	[09:03]
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mircea_popescu	TradeFortress_ i think it's safe to blame the entire coin* fiasco for it.	[09:04]
mircea_popescu	not terribly accurate, but still, safe.	[09:04]
KRS1	Wow thanks for sharing	[09:04]
TradeFortress_	and bitinstant too	[09:04]
mircea_popescu	prolly.	[09:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00068407 = 3.694 BTC [+]	[09:05]
mircea_popescu	the truely funny thing here, and this is a shoutout for all my conspiracy dawgs,	[09:06]
mircea_popescu	is that btc peaked at 75, JUST AS S.DICE.	[09:06]
mircea_popescu	which also peaked at 75	[09:06]
mircea_popescu	clearly manipulated matkets.	[09:06]
*	Namworld puts tinfoil hat on	[09:09]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[09:15]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 66.00001, Best ask: 66.30000, Bid-ask spread: 0.29999, Last trade: 66.30000, 24 hour volume: 66468.13921981, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 69.81931	[09:15]
Bowjob	this selloff	[09:15]
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*	jan is now known as Guest52447	[09:17]
Namworld	The day is not completed however. It may still be green by the end of the day.	[09:17]
Bowjob	http://coinlab.com/	[09:17]
Bowjob	I see dump after dump	[09:17]
Namworld	The previous dip on the 12th before the 50 wall was broken was more massive for a lower value.	[09:18]
Namworld	Proportionally it was much bigger.	[09:18]
Bowjob	$65.85	[09:19]
Namworld	and the graph shows a lot of fluctuation. It even shows lower some time ago	[09:19]
Namworld	We were slighlty under 65 some time ago on coinlab and it popped back to 70...	[09:20]
Bowjob	i bet lucif is partying right now, saying he called this from 3 months ago	[09:20]
Namworld	We might fluctuate back and forth at the 75 wall until it breaks or buyers get tired.	[09:20]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.33002 BTC [-]	[09:24]
cads	Wow, this is a rush.	[09:24]
cads	How low can she go?	[09:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.80946 BTC [+]	[09:25]
cads	so what w're seeing right now is essentially a random walk	[09:25]
mircea_popescu	cads : http://live.coinbr.com/?mpsic=S.MPOE	[09:26]
mircea_popescu	select 1 month	[09:26]
cads	but we might attempt to compute its derivative to see in which direction it's walking?	[09:26]
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mircea_popescu	evertythin's a drunken stumbler	[09:26]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.80946 = 1.6189 BTC [+]	[09:27]
TradeFortress_	just bet 10 btc on bfl not shipping before apr 1st	[09:28]
TradeFortress_	free coins	[09:28]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	is that still open ?	[09:28]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 63.59807, Best ask: 64.46880, Bid-ask spread: 0.87073, Last trade: 62.28200, 24 hour volume: 68148.80678210, 24 hour low: 65.00000, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 69.72187	[09:28]
Bowjob	wow	[09:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 8 @ 0.0046 = 0.0368 BTC [-]	[09:29]
Bowjob	LTC on the other hand	[09:29]
TradeFortress_	yes, 263 to 65	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	i like how bfl's credibility goes.	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	march delivery, 1,8k btc	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	april delivery, 330 btc	[09:29]
Bowjob	anyone watching coinlab? It's hurting	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	july delivery, 25 btc	[09:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P750T] 10 @ 0.15298694 = 1.5299 BTC [+]	[09:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 52 @ 0.004639 = 0.2412 BTC [+]	[09:30]
Bowjob	is this a bull trap	[09:31]
Bowjob	btc-e hit 58	[09:32]
Bowjob	lol	[09:32]
mircea_popescu	"Also, I am considering an increase in the price of the remaining IPO shares upon receipt of the company's batch 2 Avalon. Given the diminishing yield current shareholders have experienced while we await our first ASIC hardware I think it's fair to reward those that have held fast."	[09:32]
mircea_popescu	zero understanding of wtf an ipo is etc.	[09:32]
Bowjob	bull to the rescue i see some buying	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	62	[09:33]
KRS1	some decent buying?	[09:34]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[09:35]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 65.00150, Best ask: 65.02193, Bid-ask spread: 0.02043, Last trade: 65.00000, 24 hour volume: 76669.42587939, 24 hour low: 62.02310, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 69.02867	[09:35]
Bowjob	see	[09:35]
KRS1	yep	[09:35]
Bowjob	honestly, i dont see the ppoint to switching btc for fiat	[09:35]
Bowjob	you'd lose out later	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	who was saying options aren't high enough ? :D jurov ^	[09:36]
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mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147613.msg1661314#msg1661314 mpoe-pr wins "dumbest person in this forum award"	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	cosidering the forum is btctalk... wow. just wow.	[09:38]
mircea_popescu	being the smartest person at nasa is probably softer competition	[09:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4108 @ 0.00068613 = 2.8186 BTC [+]	[09:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00068821 = 3.4411 BTC [+]	[09:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7292 @ 0.00068991 = 5.0308 BTC [+]	[09:40]
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Namworld	[03:28] just bet 10 btc on bfl not shipping before apr 1st	[09:47]
Namworld	[03:28] free coins	[09:47]
Namworld	darn	[09:47]
TradeFortress_	hmm?	[09:48]
TradeFortress_	did bfl ship -.-	[09:48]
Namworld	well you could bet 100 BTC at current weight and get 1/20th of 60 so 3 BTC	[09:48]
Namworld	Easy peasy	[09:49]
Namworld	The weight is just very low	[09:49]
Namworld	Still, 3%	[09:49]
Namworld	Not bad for a safe bet	[09:50]
TradeFortress_	yep, I've got better ones on betofbitcoin	[09:50]
TradeFortress_	when the event already happened	[09:50]
Namworld	>.>	[09:51]
Namworld	no wonder it failed	[09:51]
Bowjob	mp	[09:53]
Bowjob	Also, I am considering an increase in the price of the remaining IPO shares upon receipt of the company's batch 2 Avalon. Given the diminishing yield current shareholders have experienced while we await our first ASIC hardware I think it's fair to reward those that have held fast.	[09:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7821 BTC [-]	[09:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.782 BTC [-]	[09:53]
Bowjob	where did this quote came from	[09:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.7811 = 1.5622 BTC [-]	[09:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 26 @ 0.78102 = 20.3065 BTC [-]	[09:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.77002 = 3.0801 BTC [-]	[09:53]
TradeFortress_	Bowjob, maybe AMC	[09:54]
TradeFortress_	not sure	[09:54]
Bowjob	didnt bitcoin drop when batch 2 released	[09:55]
Bowjob	my old account didnt work for batch 3 shipment, i guess i have to register again	[09:56]
Bowjob	guy	[09:59]
Bowjob	s	[09:59]
Bowjob	http://www.google.se/trends/explore#q=sell%20bitcoin,%20sell%20bitcoins	[09:59]
Bowjob	Mhm	[09:59]
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Namworld	buy bitcoins is pretty much the same tho	[10:03]
*	Smoovious (~imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:04]
TradeFortress_	yup	[10:04]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[10:05]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 64.05000, Best ask: 64.30000, Bid-ask spread: 0.25000, Last trade: 64.30000, 24 hour volume: 79479.64260130, 24 hour low: 62.02310, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 68.77207	[10:05]
*	TradeFortress_ is now known as TradeFortress	[10:07]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob yeah	[10:08]
mircea_popescu	lmao, there's a first chop. http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/136402004167.jpg	[10:08]
Bowjob	leo	[10:09]
Bowjob	I went to SR today, just to check things out.. You could actually buy candies with it	[10:20]
Bowjob	They had interestig stuff.. a cellphone jammer, a gps tracker, hacking ebooks, wireless camera detector.. shit that can get me in trouble	[10:21]
mircea_popescu	do they have one of those now-banned airport scanners	[10:22]
mircea_popescu	where you can take nude shots of dressed girls ?	[10:22]
Bowjob	ah, didnt check. the site was too slow for me	[10:23]
Bowjob	they had banned books, guides on how to make meth, guides about hiding things,	[10:24]
Bowjob	even a guide about picking up chicks.. and some porn links.	[10:24]
cads	Bowjob: surely nothing that's not also available via the torrent sites?	[10:25]
Bowjob	yeap, ive recognized one ive watched before, actually	[10:25]
mircea_popescu	lmao pick up guide	[10:25]
mircea_popescu	ok, that does it	[10:25]
mircea_popescu	sr is just bullshit, honestly.	[10:26]
cads	mircea_popescu: do you believe that blockchain datamining will at some point begin revealing the identities of the SR early adopters?	[10:27]
mircea_popescu	nope.	[10:27]
cads	To quote my baby brother, 'why not?'	[10:28]
Namworld	SR is a free market really... I guess anyone can peddle just about anything	[10:28]
Namworld	I'll go sell lints	[10:28]
Bowjob	no guns though	[10:28]
Bowjob	and murder contracts	[10:28]
Namworld	My pockets farm is producing lots of extra lint this year...	[10:29]
mircea_popescu	cads well, how much do you understand about the blockchain ?	[10:29]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[10:31]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 62.03000, Best ask: 62.20000, Bid-ask spread: 0.17000, Last trade: 62.03000, 24 hour volume: 83830.41415795, 24 hour low: 62.02310, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 68.41685	[10:31]
Bowjob	that knife.. i can feel it	[10:31]
mircea_popescu	back to 62 huh	[10:31]
cads	mircea_popescu: I've read shamir's paper where shamir tracks cashflows from originator to recipient, even through large networks of obfuscation	[10:31]
mircea_popescu	options closed just in time i swear.	[10:31]
mircea_popescu	cads shamir is an idiot and his paper is about 80% nonsense.	[10:31]
cads	mircea_popescu: he handwaves his treatment of the block chain	[10:31]
mircea_popescu	right.	[10:32]
cads	so I don't know how much to believe	[10:32]
mircea_popescu	ok, let's see here. do you understand public key criptography ?	[10:32]
cads	I definitely do need to read the hashcash papers and the original satoshi paper	[10:32]
cads	mircea_popescu: yes, I understand those reasonably well	[10:33]
mircea_popescu	ok.	[10:33]
mircea_popescu	given an arbitrary set of public keys and an arbitrary set of encrypted messages	[10:33]
mircea_popescu	what chances do you give yourself to identify which messages were addressed to which keys ?	[10:33]
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Bowjob	http://polimedia.us/dtng/f/src/130457425546.jpg	[10:34]
Bowjob	wtf	[10:34]
mircea_popescu	heh	[10:35]
mircea_popescu	stop making me click gore omg	[10:35]
mircea_popescu	a trolled by his own site is i.	[10:35]
Bowjob	its on your site	[10:35]
cads	mircea_popescu: a naive search should scale exponentially :P	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	you're presuming key information is included as plaintext.	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	it is not.	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	you'll have to bruteforce.	[10:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P730T] 9 @ 0.15137648 = 1.3624 BTC [+]	[10:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P750T] 8 @ 0.17605726 = 1.4085 BTC [+]	[10:36]
cads	right, bruteforce is exponentialish	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	yeah, well, the particular hashing scheme used by the bitcoin addresses is calculated to be unbruteforceable	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	for thermodynamic reasons	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	so it's exponential outside of the real of the physically possible.	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	your only practical avenue is side channels.	[10:37]
Bowjob	well, we may be dropping	[10:37]
cads	anyways, that seems like a red herring because the has tree has more structure than the two sets of messages and keys	[10:37]
Bowjob	but the fundamentals are exceedingly strong	[10:37]
Bowjob	*holds	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	cads yes it does have it, but that's optional.	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	you can run bitcoin in such a manner as to not include more structure than unrelated pairs, ever.	[10:38]
tiberiusiv	fundamentals lag price	[10:38]
mircea_popescu	hence the side channel comment	[10:38]
cads	mircea_popescu: even the devs claim that bitcoin transactions can be tracked if they're not intractably mixed via a mixer.	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	the devs don't have much of a clue about many things.	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	if you make one wallet per inbound payment, there's no tracing possible.	[10:39]
tiberiusiv	that guy offering his house for BTC marked the top	[10:39]
tiberiusiv	as i predicted	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	as no two addresses are ever going to be joined in inputs	[10:39]
cads	mircea_popescu: it sounds like your account is not much better. I will have to read the paper for myself and faithfully learn the scheme.	[10:39]
cads	enough second guessing for me :)	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	well, it's not practical to run 100% security, as is always the case	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	but that's not to say you couldn't if you wanted.	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	which conversely means you can never be certain you'll get analytical results worth a crap.	[10:40]
cads	I need to see a theoretical paper on the function of anonymization mixers too	[10:41]
cads	unless these things give us provable cryptographic guarantees of anonymity, I don't trust it	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	they don't.	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	they should be called obfuscators really.	[10:42]
cads	eep :)	[10:42]
cads	so they work on what is essentially wishful thinking	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	kinda.	[10:42]
cads	fantastic :)	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	maybe there's parts of that i don't understand, but afaik...	[10:42]
cads	minunat :P	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	anyway, as best i can determine the only workable mixer paradigm is what mpex employs :	[10:43]
mircea_popescu	have all inbound payments to the same address	[10:43]
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cads	mircea_popescu: I guess I have my new research questions	[10:44]
mircea_popescu	:p	[10:44]
tiberiusiv	BTC has a massive liquidity problem	[10:44]
tiberiusiv	no other asset class loses 20-30% in the span of 2hrs	[10:44]
mircea_popescu	if you are the reading sort, the old crypto mail list discussions with satoshi et all are quite informative on many topics	[10:44]
mircea_popescu	tiberiusiv yes.	[10:44]
mircea_popescu	it's not liquidity tho, it's sense.	[10:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.529 BTC [+]	[10:44]
mircea_popescu	no other asset class is plagued with such a concentrartion of high powered idiots.	[10:44]
Namworld	You should see OTC... real panic...	[10:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P730T] 6 @ 0.1588357 = 0.953 BTC [+]	[10:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P750T] 5 @ 0.18424999 = 0.9212 BTC [+]	[10:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.57099998 BTC [-]	[10:45]
*	farfi (~farfi@77.125.1.89) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	point in case	[10:46]
Namworld	http://www.bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html	[10:46]
cads	ITS NOT GOING TO STOP	[10:46]
cads	OH MY GOD	[10:46]
Namworld	bids remain strong tho yet asks...	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	o looky 58	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	lol	[10:46]
*	cads laughs	[10:46]
Diablo-D3	!ticker	[10:46]
assbot	Ah, your hair. Your hair is soft. It's like a girl's. Now how do you get it that way?	[10:46]
Diablo-D3	;;ticker	[10:46]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 58.22000, Best ask: 58.80000, Bid-ask spread: 0.58000, Last trade: 58.22000, 24 hour volume: 92634.92542725, 24 hour low: 57.80000, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 67.57447	[10:46]
Diablo-D3	wtf we crashed?	[10:46]
Namworld	People are panic selling	[10:47]
Bowjob	Unbelievable	[10:47]
Diablo-D3	ha ha let them	[10:47]
Bowjob	hey, its a good opportunity to buy now	[10:47]
Diablo-D3	I wont sell until we hit $1000	[10:47]
Bowjob	for Avalon 3 if yo want	[10:47]
tiberiusiv	doubt we see 70 again this year	[10:47]
awkorama	omg	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	im with him	[10:47]
cads	Namworld: the yay part is that I panic sold back when things were at my favorite number, 69	[10:47]
awkorama	proper trolling	[10:47]
*	thepok (~thepok@068-112-109-134.csn.tu-chemnitz.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:47]
tiberiusiv	guy offering his house for BTC marked the top	[10:47]
Namworld	All within 2 hours	[10:48]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[10:48]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 57.78000, Best ask: 57.85000, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 57.85000, 24 hour volume: 94019.67462292, 24 hour low: 57.78000, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 67.43441	[10:48]
Bowjob	ouch	[10:48]
Bowjob	this hurts	[10:48]
*	cads drives the price down with his whip	[10:48]
cads	down! down!	[10:48]
cads	yaah!	[10:48]
tiberiusiv	BTC can go to single digits in the span of 4hrs	[10:48]
tiberiusiv	theres no bids relative to BTC outstanding	[10:49]
tiberiusiv	you only need 1-2% of bitcoins being sold at a given time to crash the price	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	single digits would be cool.	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	i'd have to re-re-refactor my option names	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	EXACTLY the other way from what i announced i'll do	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	not 12 hours ago	[10:49]
Namworld	>.>	[10:50]
Namworld	[04:49] if it goes near 45, it wiill stabilize there for atleast a month or so	[10:50]
Namworld	[04:49] then when the bounce comes, no stopping it till 120	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	and if it goes near 18	[10:50]
Namworld	more excellent quotes from OTC	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	it will be legal to fuck	[10:50]
Namworld	I bet guy both at 45	[10:50]
Bowjob	im strangely calm amids all this chaos	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	yeh	[10:50]
Namworld	bought*	[10:50]
Bowjob	amidst. fuck i cant spell	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob there's no chaos, we;'re having lulz	[10:50]
Bowjob	lol	[10:50]
Bowjob	panic selling is a bad bad baahd idea	[10:51]
Namworld	I have shares earning in USD... I have stocks in BTC...	[10:51]
Namworld	Really, to me, both way is fine	[10:51]
Bowjob	no changes in fundamentals, we'll have bear meat soon	[10:51]
Namworld	Goes to a low price, I get cheap bitcoins	[10:51]
Bowjob	and ltc goes up	[10:51]
Namworld	Goes high, I get lots of value out into bitcoin stuff	[10:51]
Bowjob	seems like LTC goes up when btc goes down	[10:52]
Bowjob	and the other way around too	[10:52]
Namworld	My favorite way of cashing out is through funding some businesses I like I Bitcoinland.	[10:52]
Namworld	Instead of selling BTC	[10:52]
Bowjob	LTC keeps 50 cents mhm	[10:52]
tiberiusiv	dude $1k moves LTC like 30%	[10:52]
*	paci has quit (Quit: paci)	[10:53]
Bowjob	$56	[10:53]
Bowjob	those two numbers were switched the other way	[10:53]
*	assbot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[10:55]
*	rikur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[10:56]
cads	I"m so sleepy	[10:56]
*	rikur (rikur@helloit.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:56]
Bowjob	we lost about 1/3rd of BTC's purchasing strength	[10:57]
cads	but I want to follow the market down so I can buy back in when it's done	[10:57]
tiberiusiv	mircea: hurts for mpex market cap	[10:57]
*	cads muses for a moment on "first world problems"	[10:57]
Bowjob	maybe ianbakewell will go legit..	[10:57]
Bowjob	saying.. he got into an accident	[10:57]
tiberiusiv	you wont be able to buy when its done because theres barely any coins offered until 65	[10:57]
Bowjob	and pays everyone at this point	[10:57]
Bowjob	53 dollars	[10:58]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[10:58]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 53.01000, Best ask: 53.55000, Bid-ask spread: 0.54000, Last trade: 53.01000, 24 hour volume: 107782.51352993, 24 hour low: 53.00000, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 65.83923	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	tiberiusiv yeah ;/	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	i got to like 49.6 mn or some shit... but not 50 ;/	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	Best ask: 53.5500 <<	[11:00]
tiberiusiv	at the end of the day BTC is nothing more then a confidence game	[11:00]
tiberiusiv	it has no intrinsic value	[11:00]
tiberiusiv	and confidence can change on a whim	[11:01]
cads	This drop feels good. Like being overdrunk, and finally vomiting the extra poison out.	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	you two make a nice picture together.	[11:03]
*	error4733 (~userirc@ip-80-236-193-164.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:04]
error4733	!ticker	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/veil_model1.jpg	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	ahahahaha	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2297383/Cyprus-bailout-President-Nikos-Anastasiades-warned-friends-money-abroad.html also pretty cute	[11:05]
Bowjob	and... I'm down $4000 in unrealized profit	[11:06]
Bowjob	might as well play dice to get those unrealized profits back	[11:06]
Bowjob	lol	[11:06]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[11:07]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 55.00000, Best ask: 55.71460, Bid-ask spread: 0.71460, Last trade: 55.71460, 24 hour volume: 108334.59487058, 24 hour low: 53.00000, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 65.77385	[11:07]
Bowjob	;;goxlag	[11:07]
gribble	199.314923 seconds	[11:07]
*	jhunt (~jhunt@c-98-234-237-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:09]
tiberiusiv	mpex loses close to 40% of market cap in under 2 hours	[11:09]
tiberiusiv	ouch	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	not rly.	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	it's a bitcoin corp, not a fiat corp.	[11:11]
*	awkorama has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	it probably gained a lot in zimbabwe dollars or w/e other fake currency out there nobody cares about.	[11:11]
error4733	;;goxlag	[11:11]
gribble	140.39499 seconds	[11:11]
*	awkorama (~awk@dial-95-105-156-78-orange.orange.sk) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:12]
Bowjob	;;goxlag	[11:12]
gribble	97.329551 seconds	[11:12]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[11:13]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 56.87473, Best ask: 59.49000, Bid-ask spread: 2.61527, Last trade: 59.49000, 24 hour volume: 108334.59487058, 24 hour low: 53.00000, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 65.77385	[11:13]
Bowjob	all right you stupid bears. You will eat the knife. and like it too	[11:14]
tiberiusiv	;;ask 70	[11:16]
gribble	Error: "ask" is not a valid command.	[11:16]
mircea_popescu	$mpexlag	[11:17]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: 0.0966739654541 seconds	[11:17]
mircea_popescu	;;goxlag	[11:17]
gribble	15.540302 seconds	[11:17]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[11:17]
Bowjob	we're hanging to 60	[11:17]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[11:17]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 60.70000, Best ask: 61.23400, Bid-ask spread: 0.53400, Last trade: 61.23400, 24 hour volume: 115184.27493444, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 64.81793	[11:17]
Bowjob	Heh, hehehehehehe	[11:17]
tiberiusiv	too bad the nearest bid is at 53	[11:18]
Bowjob	arent you always negative	[11:18]
Bowjob	it bothers me that gox fucks up their trades	[11:20]
Bowjob	will coinlab be like this too?	[11:20]
Bowjob	plagued by lag, ect	[11:20]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[11:20]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 62.00000, Best ask: 62.80000, Bid-ask spread: 0.80000, Last trade: 62.80000, 24 hour volume: 116073.49685910, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 64.74844	[11:20]
mircea_popescu	this is coinbaselab	[11:20]
Bowjob	so same engine?	[11:21]
Namworld	http://www.coinlab.com/	[11:29]
Namworld	notice the warning in red over the ticker	[11:29]
mircea_popescu	does it say "We suck" ?	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	o hey, their site doesn't load in my browser. so much win.	[11:31]
Namworld	I think it's synonymous	[11:32]
Namworld	the warning says: "Mt. Gox sockets are down. Trade data will not update until they come back online, and depth data will only update once every 15 minutes. Sorry! "	[11:32]
mircea_popescu	o ic	[11:32]
mircea_popescu	this is reminiscent of tradehill's "the old tradehill site is to blame" response to defrauded customers complaining on tyheir failed relaunch attempt	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	so avg price dropped ~ 5 bux off 70 peak in 2 hours	[11:34]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[11:34]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 62.90000, Best ask: 63.16668, Bid-ask spread: 0.26668, Last trade: 62.90000, 24 hour volume: 116073.49685910, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 64.74844	[11:35]
Bowjob	yeah i guess	[11:35]
error4733	;;goxlag	[11:35]
gribble	212.825885 seconds	[11:35]
Bowjob	well.	[11:35]
Bowjob	shit	[11:35]
Bowjob	lol	[11:35]
error4733	:fuuuuuu:	[11:35]
Bowjob	it went 53, someone reported getting an order filled for 51	[11:35]
Bowjob	that must hurt for the bear	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	next time anyone wants to trust the conference trail scum with a toy worth half a billion dollars,	[11:36]
mircea_popescu	remember coinlab and vessenes.	[11:36]
Bowjob	;;goxlag	[11:39]
gribble	0.173256 seconds	[11:39]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[11:39]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 62.48999, Best ask: 62.49000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 62.49000, 24 hour volume: 116073.49685910, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 64.74844	[11:39]
Bowjob	im okay with this	[11:39]
Namworld	http://www.bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD/accumulated_orderbook.png	[11:40]
Namworld	look at that spread	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	weekend barely just begun	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	wait till the news spreads	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	there's going to be a 2nd prong i think	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	;;asks 55	[11:40]
gribble	There are currently 0 bitcoins offered at or under 55.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0023 seconds	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	;;bids 52	[11:41]
gribble	There are currently 17190.312 bitcoins demanded at or over 52.0 USD, worth 937427.107527 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 5.3785 seconds	[11:41]
saulimus	it will get pretty volatile	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	;;bids 55	[11:41]
gribble	There are currently 8854.509 bitcoins demanded at or over 55.0 USD, worth 494777.013854 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 25.2820 seconds	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	;;bids 58	[11:41]
gribble	There are currently 831.89671 bitcoins demanded at or over 58.0 USD, worth 48595.2207021 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 31.6176 seconds	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	superold data	[11:41]
Bowjob	30 seconds is too late in bitcoinland	[11:42]
*	bitesak has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[11:42]
Bowjob	https://www.canadianbitcoins.com/	[11:43]
Bowjob	still 77	[11:43]
Bowjob	damn	[11:43]
mircea_popescu	lol	[11:43]
Bowjob	canadianbitcoins used to be pretty cheap, sometimes even lower than gox prices	[11:43]
Bowjob	back in dec	[11:43]
Bowjob	you could buy from canadianbtc and make profit arbitraging it to fastcash4bitcoins	[11:44]
Bowjob	cadbtc selling for 13.5, fastcas paying 14	[11:44]
Bowjob	lol	[11:44]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[11:46]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 61.95000, Best ask: 62.48999, Bid-ask spread: 0.53999, Last trade: 61.95000, 24 hour volume: 126755.91316438, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 64.42759	[11:46]
*	cads has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[11:54]
*	molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[11:54]
*	paci (~paci@37.179.209.5) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:57]
*	pingec (pingo@188.230.221.197) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:57]
*	molecular (~molecular@e176104084.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:58]
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Namworld	Actually, fees on cavirtex are 3% to .5% depending on volume...	[12:05]
Namworld	Assuming an average of 2% and daily trading of 1500 BTC	[12:05]
Namworld	that's 30 BTC per day	[12:06]
error4733	10K shares ?	[12:06]
Namworld	Divided by 100 000 shares (10k IPOed for 10%), that's 0.0003 BTC per day	[12:06]
error4733	for 0.4btc/share (IPO price)	[12:07]
Namworld	So 0.1095 BTC per year or 25% per year	[12:07]
error4733	in BTC land, nothing	[12:07]
Namworld	eh	[12:08]
Namworld	They're stable tho	[12:08]
Namworld	Been around since 2011 and actually legitly registered.	[12:08]
mircea_popescu	not registered yet afaik	[12:08]
Bowjob	they trade btc higher than gox	[12:09]
error4733	why they need money ? what they wanna do with IPO money ?	[12:10]
Bowjob	but the 3% is killing me	[12:10]
Namworld	?	[12:10]
Bowjob	3% fee on both sides	[12:10]
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*	saulimus (~someone@37-136-120-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:11]
Namworld	no, about being registered	[12:11]
Bowjob	they are registered legitly	[12:11]
Namworld	I thought so too...	[12:13]
Bowjob	"lol, party is over. Years long downtrend in place now. " -proudhon	[12:13]
error4733	"24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 73.69900" a trader fantasy	[12:14]
Bowjob	i didnt move my position. i just watched the action	[12:18]
Bowjob	*yawn, im getting desensitized to this	[12:18]
*	paci has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[12:20]
Namworld	Oh shit!!	[12:26]
Namworld	AMC is valuating themselves at 1 million BTC?!?	[12:26]
Bowjob	what amc?	[12:27]
TradeFortress	LOL	[12:28]
TradeFortress	someone trying to cash into the asicminer hype	[12:28]
TradeFortress	for those who wish they bought avalons / asicminer	[12:28]
Namworld	on Bitfunder	[12:28]
Namworld	how was that even allowed?	[12:28]
Bowjob	asicminer at 1m..	[12:28]
Bowjob	wtf	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob not asicminer	[12:29]
Namworld	anonymous dude with zero info whatsoever except bold claims in the text on bitfunder... no website, no info, no nothing	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	some wannabe fund that owns what, 2%	[12:29]
Namworld	AMC Offering:	[12:30]
Namworld	AMC's offering is comprised of 100,000,000 shares in total.	[12:30]
Namworld	1 share of AMC on BitFunder represents 1/100,000,000th of 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses.	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	Namworld anyway, gotta compete right ?	[12:30]
kakobrekla	mornin	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	heya.	[12:30]
kakobrekla	o, what a drop, 70 to 50	[12:30]
Bowjob	Active Mining Cooperative	[12:30]
Namworld	If they sell for like 1000 BTC (100 000 shares)	[12:30]
TradeFortress	mircea_popescu, wasn't actually listed on the homepage for a while	[12:30]
Namworld	They get to keep 99.9% of everything	[12:30]
Namworld	AFTER expenses	[12:30]
Namworld	What the fuck?	[12:31]
Bowjob	it's not like bears went unscathed. bears got gored at 52.	[12:31]
TradeFortress	Net Estimated ROI/Year @ .01 BTC/share 2,847.47208%/Year*	[12:31]
Bowjob	Kenneth E. Slaughter	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	lol cute.	[12:32]
Bowjob	is that a fake name?	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	a well, as long as people are willing to put btc in that people deserve to.	[12:32]
Bowjob	holy fuck bitfunder if im trying to copy and paste dont close it up	[12:33]
Namworld	Don't people research/read contract/look at past history before putting some coins in?	[12:33]
TradeFortress	Namworld, it sold like 11 btc worth	[12:33]
Bowjob	avalon batch 4	[12:34]
Bowjob	scam	[12:34]
Namworld	Est Gross(less power) Revenue 12 Months 2,847,472.08 BTC	[12:36]
*	Uglux (~uglux@port-92-204-92-117.dynamic.qsc.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:36]
Namworld	THERE'S NOT EVEN THAT MUCH MINING GOING TO HAPPEN! >.<	[12:36]
TradeFortress	LOL	[12:36]
TradeFortress	haha	[12:36]
TradeFortress	oh my god	[12:36]
Namworld	I hope that 10 BTC was traded by the issuer to stimulate trading...	[12:37]
Namworld	How did Ukto let that go through?	[12:37]
Bowjob	http://store.avalon-asics.com/?product=avalon-asic-batch-2	[12:38]
Bowjob	1500 BTC	[12:38]
Bowjob	lol	[12:38]
kakobrekla	da wat?	[12:38]
*	saulimus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[12:38]
Namworld	probably was meant to be 1500 USD but they screwed that	[12:39]
*	saulimus (~someone@37-136-120-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:39]
kakobrekla	http://store.avalon-asics.com/?product=avalon-asic-unit	[12:39]
kakobrekla	this is last one	[12:39]
kakobrekla	no thanks.	[12:39]
TradeFortress	Namworld, no	[12:39]
*	unbalanced_away is now known as unbalanced	[12:39]
TradeFortress	they want "reasonable ROI"	[12:39]
kakobrekla	!r unbalanced	[12:40]
Bowjob	how come its 63 gigahash	[12:40]
TradeFortress	says 88 btc for me	[12:40]
Bowjob	thats slower than.. batch 1 and 2	[12:40]
TradeFortress	63GH/s guaranteed	[12:40]
unbalanced	bowjob re: "cadbtc selling for 13.5, fastcas paying 14" -- thanks I had to change my pants before realizing you were talking about the good old days	[12:40]
Bowjob	Oh, lol. xD	[12:41]
unbalanced	Bitcoin... You Must Never Look Away	[12:41]
Bowjob	I actually pointed it out to topace, seems like he didn't care at the time	[12:41]
Bowjob	but cadbtc is so OP now	[12:41]
Bowjob	i never did arb from cadbtc to fastcash, seemed like a dick move	[12:41]
*	MJR__ (Josh_Rossi@cpe-68-174-114-54.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:42]
MJR__	crazy ride	[12:42]
Bowjob	im used to it	[12:42]
MJR__	yeah me too	[12:42]
Bowjob	umm yeah so avalon	[12:42]
MJR__	what happened?	[12:42]
Bowjob	it was 65 gigahash guaranteed	[12:42]
Bowjob	but now 63 gigahash guaranteed	[12:43]
MJR__	66 I thought	[12:43]
Bowjob	that doesnt make sense	[12:43]
Bowjob	why would they lower the guarantee rate	[12:43]
MJR__	chips?	[12:43]
Bowjob	dunno	[12:43]
MJR__	I mean, for each batch	[12:43]
Bowjob	at this point you'd still make your investment back, though longer	[12:43]
unbalanced	cadbtc pegs to virtex recent history, not Mt. Gox, AFAIK	[12:44]
MJR__	you lose some chips that don't work	[12:44]
TradeFortress	Bowjob, they probably wasted a couple of chips	[12:44]
TradeFortress	(well they'd be mining it themselves)	[12:44]
kakobrekla	you know how it goes with chiniese, each batch more btc, each batch less hash	[12:44]
MJR__	maybe the number that did between 63 and 65 was very significant	[12:44]
Bowjob	we actually didnt know that they were the first asic one	[12:45]
Bowjob	well, at this point provided bfl doesnt ship	[12:45]
Bowjob	batch 3 is gonna be a good deal	[12:45]
unbalanced	Virtex used to trade higher than Mt. Gox during uptrends, now seems to all the time. Supply/demand I figure.	[12:45]
MJR__	I think so	[12:45]
Bowjob	even if bfl ships, i doubt they'd be able to ship all pre orders	[12:45]
MJR__	bitfloor ask is $69	[12:45]
MJR__	;;ticker	[12:46]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 64.46000, Best ask: 64.48000, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 64.48000, 24 hour volume: 133914.42658800, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 73.69900, 24 hour vwap: 64.05389	[12:46]
MJR__	I exercised my 41 calls at 71	[12:46]
unbalanced	At this rate I'll catch up to you guys and start asking q's about avalon in another hour or so.	[12:46]
Bowjob	you dun well	[12:46]
Bowjob	anyways, anyone know how to run an avalon?	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/lets-capture-forum-bugs-in-amber/	[12:46]
MJR__	lol, my friend was shorting	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	having a leetal fun	[12:46]
unbalanced	MJR__ nice!	[12:46]
Bowjob	i haven't done any mining, at all. this is my first time mining	[12:46]
MJR__	so when he was happy about the 5 drop	[12:47]
MJR__	Bowjob: you would install the firmware I guess	[12:47]
MJR__	and hook it up to a computer...	[12:47]
Bowjob	I have not seen a video of avalon from start to finish	[12:47]
MJR__	or I think you could even just program it directly	[12:47]
Bowjob	right.	[12:48]
MJR__	since it runs a Linux os	[12:48]
Bowjob	suppose i get the box, i open it. gloves and shit	[12:48]
MJR__	attach a monitor and a keyboard	[12:48]
MJR__	im guessing	[12:48]
Bowjob	https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon	[12:48]
Bowjob	I'm stuck on step 2.	[12:49]
Bowjob	"Setup your laptop IP address 192.168.0.101 "	[12:49]
*	bitesak (~bitdragon@27-238.193-178.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:49]
MJR__	huh? are both devices on the same network?	[12:50]
Bowjob	no clue, really	[12:50]
MJR__	nvm	[12:51]
MJR__	you directly attach your laptop to the Avalon	[12:51]
MJR__	and then you use a static IP on that port	[12:51]
MJR__	then you use a web browser to get to the config page	[12:51]
*	toffoo has quit ()	[12:51]
MJR__	similar to setting up a wifi router	[12:52]
Bowjob	If I can't figure this shit out by the time I get my avalon, 2 BTC pot to help me get it running	[12:52]
Bowjob	I was able to set up GGPO, so avalon shouldn't be too hard	[12:52]
TradeFortress	Bowjob, batch?	[12:52]
Bowjob	2	[12:52]
TradeFortress	cool	[12:52]
Bowjob	i have a decend idea on how to do it, the webgui reminds me of my router	[12:53]
MJR__	my friend and I are working on an fpga design	[12:53]
Bowjob	*decent	[12:53]
Bowjob	anyone else got avalon 2?	[12:53]
MJR__	I wish :(	[12:53]
Bowjob	I camped out on both days avalon 2s were for sale	[12:53]
MJR__	my friend has some very interesting ideas about latency vs throughput	[12:53]
Bowjob	my F5 took a beating	[12:53]
MJR__	lol, I wish I had an Avalon	[12:54]
*	awkorama has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[13:01]
jurov	;;bc,stats	[13:01]
gribble	Current Blocks: 227574 \| Current Difficulty: 4847647.152065606 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 227807 \| Next Difficulty In: 233 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 1 hour, 32 minutes, and 3 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 6608097.13894 \| Estimated Percent Change: 36.31556	[13:01]
*	awkorama (~awk@dial-95-105-156-78-orange.orange.sk) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:02]
MJR__	wow going to be a big jump...	[13:05]
*	assbot (~assbot@unaffiliated/kakobrekla/bot/assbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:06]
*	ChanServ gives channel operator status to assbot	[13:06]
MJR__	even with that new difficulty jump an Avalon more than pays for itself in a week	[13:07]
kakobrekla	not in 3 months	[13:08]
MJR__	don't know what the diff will be in 3 months...	[13:08]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 60 @ 0.01301 = 0.7806 BTC [-]	[13:08]
MJR__	Next Difficulty Estimate: 6608097.13894 \|	[13:09]
MJR__	at that level still 1 week	[13:09]
MJR__	so those receiving their avalons now should prob be good	[13:09]
jurov	hi all, look what is brewing: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=156641.0	[13:11]
Bowjob	old	[13:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 6 @ 0.01101 = 0.0661 BTC [-]	[13:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 9 @ 0.01 = 0.09 BTC [-]	[13:11]
Bowjob	its nice of him though	[13:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9386 @ 0.00068991 = 6.4755 BTC [+]	[13:11]
jurov	but the last comment "OKPAY should be refunded, too" may cause quite a shitstorm	[13:12]
jurov	why only miners, srsly?	[13:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 100 @ 0.1697 = 16.97 BTC [+]	[13:12]
jurov	avoorhees should ask for refunds, too if he lost anything.. wanna see what would the reply to that lol	[13:15]
*	damientrog (~dtrog@109.130.33.102) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 786 @ 0.00069904 = 0.5494 BTC [+]	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	jurov myeah	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	999.9995 btc	[13:18]
Bowjob	So who here will buy avalon3	[13:19]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[13:20]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 65.85829, Best ask: 65.90000, Bid-ask spread: 0.04171, Last trade: 65.90000, 24 hour volume: 138785.79606428, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 73.49500, 24 hour vwap: 64.08160	[13:20]
leotreasure	i will probably	[13:21]
leotreasure	i lol'd at your bfl vs avalon comparison Bowjob	[13:21]
MJR__	any news on the bfl front?	[13:21]
Bowjob	delay	[13:22]
Bowjob	Actually, I had half a mind to plot all of BFL's delays on a chart	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	it's gotten to the point where "omg bfl shipping" => instatroll	[13:22]
MJR__	lol...in other news the sky is still blue	[13:22]
MJR__	yeah	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	Bowjob i never saw that compariosn ?	[13:22]
damientrog	any idea when avalon batch 3 will go on sale?	[13:22]
leotreasure	it's on sale now i thought	[13:23]
Bowjob	damien, very soon. like 1-2 day soon	[13:23]
Bowjob	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=156767.msg1662592#msg1662592	[13:23]
damientrog	ah great	[13:23]
leotreasure	http://store.avalon-asics.com	[13:23]
Bowjob	I haven't made the chart yet.	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	anyone here remember the walletbit fiasco ?	[13:23]
damientrog	haha	[13:23]
damientrog	nice post	[13:23]
Bowjob	yes	[13:23]
Bowjob	MNW asked me about avalon 3 too	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	lol	[13:23]
Anduck	Bowjob: i dont understand that pic =I	[13:23]
Anduck	mnw hasnt replied me :((	[13:23]
Bowjob	The first picture is box of fans	[13:23]
Bowjob	second picture is the avalon asic	[13:24]
Bowjob	At this point I believe batch 3 will still be profitable	[13:24]
Bowjob	since, having >20k pre orders.. is a nightmare	[13:25]
Anduck	duh	[13:25]
Anduck	i still dont get it xD	[13:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 10 @ 0.00151 = 0.0151 BTC [-]	[13:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 10 @ 0.0015 = 0.015 BTC [-]	[13:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 1 @ 0.00142 BTC [-]	[13:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 12 @ 0.0014 = 0.0168 BTC [-]	[13:28]
MJR__	I think so too	[13:28]
MJR__	they are projecting that when you get it the difficulty will be a lot higher	[13:28]
MJR__	10 million you still pay it off in a month	[13:29]
MJR__	diff not price	[13:29]
Bowjob	its stilla good buy, it will just put off many people	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	i wouldn't pay them 3x if it brought about the end of the world.	[13:30]
Bowjob	I considered ordering 5 more avalons if it was 5x	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	prices go down not up.	[13:30]
Bowjob	*1.5	[13:30]
Bowjob	we should all ask bfl_josh about his seppuku ritual on april 1st	[13:31]
Bowjob	:)	[13:31]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[13:33]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 64.00000, Best ask: 64.10172, Bid-ask spread: 0.10172, Last trade: 64.10172, 24 hour volume: 140056.39573591, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 73.49500, 24 hour vwap: 64.07680	[13:33]
*	Thinker_ (~Thinker~@cpe-24-59-184-164.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:33]
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MJR__	well, the price is in some way tied to the difficulty	[13:36]
MJR__	I don't know the exact formula	[13:37]
Namworld	How so?	[13:37]
MJR__	the price is a function of the difficulty	[13:37]
MJR__	that is by design I think	[13:37]
MJR__	but I know that that is the case	[13:37]
deadweasel	price whatever someone is willing to give you for it.	[13:38]
Namworld	For which manufacturer?	[13:38]
*	sgornick (~steve@unaffiliated/sgornick) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:38]
MJR__	not when I put 90 BTC on my website	[13:38]
Namworld	One really prices based on difficulty?	[13:38]
MJR__	Avalon	[13:38]
Namworld	odd	[13:38]
Namworld	ok... I'll be AFK	[13:38]
MJR__	that is what that one manufacturer is choosing to do	[13:38]
MJR__	you have to realize the motives of Avalon	[13:39]
MJR__	and it isn't purely profit	[13:39]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[17:02]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com/	[17:02]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 13 14:15:50 2013	[17:02]
*	Uglux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)	[17:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.51 BTC [-]	[17:06]
*	Josh_Rossi (Josh_Rossi@cpe-68-174-114-54.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:09]
Josh_Rossi	;;ident	[17:10]
gribble	You are not identified.	[17:10]
*	Josh_Rossi has quit (Client Quit)	[17:10]
mjr_	;;ident	[17:10]
gribble	You are identified as user Josh_Rossi, with GPG key id C286BB96FE9B6CD3, key fingerprint 3812AFD43A6B8A057F37D858C286BB96FE9B6CD3, and bitcoin address 1LokQrHj14NU93tC6pZfTZyyRHhAVakQmX	[17:10]
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Diablo-D3	ha ha	[17:11]
*	mjr_ (mjr_@cpe-68-174-114-54.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00402 BTC [-]	[17:11]
Diablo-D3	gamma bitcoin fund	[17:11]
mjr_	;;ident	[17:11]
gribble	You are not identified.	[17:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 100 @ 0.0044444 = 0.4444 BTC [+]	[17:18]
*	afa (4b9d17a2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.157.23.162) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:23]
error4733	mjr you shoukd stop try stupid challenge	[17:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 2 @ 0.00402 = 0.008 BTC [-]	[17:27]
error4733	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m5IzMuVM1o&list=UU7vzAZjh_HRRuvFzbzeTkjg&index=1	[17:27]
mjr_	upgraded Mirc	[17:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 38 @ 0.004099 = 0.1558 BTC [+]	[17:29]
mjr_	trying to reinitialize the script that auto-challenges	[17:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.16 BTC [+]	[17:29]
mjr_	lol	[17:31]
mjr_	who is that kid?	[17:31]
mjr_	thats just great...of all the people who could have had my name	[17:31]
mjr_	:(	[17:31]
*	Jackmaninov has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[17:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5136 @ 0.00070068 = 3.5987 BTC [+]	[17:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4268 @ 0.00070069 = 2.9905 BTC [+]	[17:36]
KRS1	maybe he knows this kid http://www.2atoms.com/comedy/worstoftheweb/blount.htm	[17:37]
kakobrekla	lol bitinstant > The shitty thing is that the last time I sent Shrem an e-mail it bounced. And I got the message: Could wait no longer, mailbox full.	[17:39]
*	coinners (~coinners@host86-173-153-162.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 6 @ 0.51 = 3.06 BTC [-]	[17:45]
smickles	is that cads guy still around	[17:51]
smickles	it's like he just came out of nowhere asking for mpex to be made, and the chan was like "/me points to mpex"	[17:52]
FabianB	indeed, just finished backlog	[17:53]
*	uglux_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[17:57]
jurov	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5427985 some little peeks into coinbase innards	[17:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 14 @ 0.004639 = 0.0649 BTC [+]	[17:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 2 @ 0.000677 = 0.0014 BTC [-]	[18:00]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 2 @ 0.0014 = 0.0028 BTC [-]	[18:01]
kakobrekla	http://www.mongodb.org/about/production-deployments/	[18:02]
kakobrekla	Coinbase uses MongoDB for their primary datastore for their web app, api requests, etc. Coinbase is a decentralized, digital currency that is changing the world of payments.	[18:02]
kakobrekla	Coinbase is Bitcoin?	[18:02]
kakobrekla	nice	[18:02]
kakobrekla	they also use macs	[18:05]
kakobrekla	dont trust em with a coin.	[18:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.5840001 BTC [-]	[18:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 29 @ 0.584 = 16.936 BTC [-]	[18:09]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.5979999 BTC [+]	[18:10]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 23 @ 0.598 = 13.754 BTC [+]	[18:10]
*	lizzinn (~b@unaffiliated/lizzin) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:11]
*	jhunt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[18:13]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[18:13]
ThickAsThieves	;;goxlag	[18:13]
gribble	0 seconds	[18:13]
gribble	Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.	[18:13]
*	jhunt (~jhunt@c-98-234-237-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:13]
*	saulimus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[18:21]
*	saulimus (~someone@37-136-120-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:21]
tiberiusiv	bitinstant has like a 25% chance your transfer fails	[18:24]
tiberiusiv	and it takes them up to 5 days to "push the coins through"	[18:24]
*	saulimus has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[18:29]
*	saulimus (~someone@37-219-151-34.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:30]
mod6	(02:10) < tiberiusiv> zyphus you should exit (02:10) < tiberiusiv> single digits are not that far	[18:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.005 BTC [-]	[18:30]
mod6	trolled these d00dz hard lastnight 'eh	[18:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.0044 BTC [-]	[18:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 8 @ 0.00311 = 0.0249 BTC [-]	[18:31]
mod6	i guess those guys were losing their minds	[18:32]
tiberiusiv	mod6: lol	[18:33]
tiberiusiv	one of them almost sold me their coins for 25	[18:33]
mod6	haha nice	[18:34]
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*	Jackmaninov (~Jackmanin@84.113.100.69) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:43]
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smickles	"electronic harmonic variance" sounds like shit spewed from a powerband salesman	[18:49]
ThickAsThieves	;;tslb	[18:50]
gribble	Time since last block: 51 minutes and 39 seconds	[18:50]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[18:50]
ThickAsThieves	wtf	[18:50]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[18:50]
gribble	Current Blocks: 227618 \| Current Difficulty: 4847647.152065606 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 227807 \| Next Difficulty In: 189 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 21 hours, 17 minutes, and 44 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 6606350.12053 \| Estimated Percent Change: 36.27952	[18:50]
smickles	another fork?	[18:51]
smickles	no...	[18:51]
mod6	i don't see any orphand blocks yet.. http://blockchain.info/blocks	[18:51]
smickles	maybe their client is just borkd	[18:51]
*	saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)	[18:51]
*	smickles checks his own	[18:52]
mod6	my client is so far behind....	[18:52]
ThickAsThieves	i only check because i have old tx waiting	[18:52]
mod6	it's on the .7 though	[18:52]
ThickAsThieves	checked*	[18:52]
smickles	ofc, i havn't sync'd in about 16 hours	[18:52]
smickles	@.@	[18:52]
mod6	i hate starting it up cause it send my HD to 0 response time damn near	[18:52]
mod6	mine is 70 days behind still	[18:52]
smickles	it's most likely blockchain.info's client getting stuck	[18:53]
smickles	bing	[18:53]
smickles	;;tslb	[18:53]
gribble	Time since last block: 33 seconds	[18:53]
mod6	sweet	[18:53]
smickles	69k btc sent	[18:53]
smickles	er, 60	[18:53]
smickles	ish	[18:53]
*	error4733 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[18:58]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 18 @ 0.5998888 = 10.798 BTC [+]	[18:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 7 @ 0.51 = 3.57 BTC [-]	[19:00]
*	molecular (~molecular@e176104084.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:00]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 13 @ 0.6 = 7.8 BTC [+]	[19:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.51 = 2.04 BTC [-]	[19:02]
*	lizzinn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[19:03]
*	oizotov_ (~irssi@gateway/tor-sasl/oizotov) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:09]
*	oizotov has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[19:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 62 @ 0.004099 = 0.2541 BTC [+]	[19:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.4855 = 1.4565 BTC [-]	[19:18]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 67 @ 0.00361 = 0.2419 BTC [-]	[19:21]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.485 BTC [-]	[19:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.485 BTC [-]	[19:22]
*	MJR__ (mjr_@cpe-68-174-114-54.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.48000002 = 1.92 BTC [-]	[19:23]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[19:23]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 65.10000, Best ask: 65.41901, Bid-ask spread: 0.31901, Last trade: 65.10000, 24 hour volume: 155857.54158041, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 72.86999, 24 hour vwap: 63.91405	[19:23]
*	Rothgar (421ffde0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.31.253.224) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:23]
ThickAsThieves	;;asks 70	[19:23]
gribble	There are currently 9000.1244 bitcoins offered at or under 70.0 USD, worth 618708.528579 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0021 seconds	[19:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.6 BTC [+]	[19:24]
*	dullmoment (~dullmomen@static-72-66-92-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:24]
ThickAsThieves	;;bids 60	[19:24]
gribble	There are currently 10059.132 bitcoins demanded at or over 60.0 USD, worth 624598.081772 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 19.2737 seconds	[19:24]
mod6	$vwap ^OIX	[19:29]
mpexbot	mod6: 1 day: no data 7 day: average: 67.50931133 high: 70.0111051 low: 51.26011131 volume: 14605 btc: 3123.57547556 30 day: no data	[19:29]
*	jonny7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[19:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.6 BTC [+]	[19:31]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.6 = 3 BTC [+]	[19:32]
*	MJR__ has quit (Quit: MJR__)	[19:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 19 @ 0.65 = 12.35 BTC [+]	[19:33]
ThickAsThieves	yep i was wrong about vtx	[19:33]
mod6	this might be one of the more idiot posts in a while	[19:33]
mod6	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=156960	[19:33]
mod6	We have a world to conquer out there, and we don't want to end up like Unix.	[19:33]
ThickAsThieves	wall of text almost killed me	[19:34]
mod6	WRONG you want to end up exactly like unix	[19:34]
mod6	the path of least resistance is where the river will follow and flow through, to meet his own anaology	[19:34]
Rothgar	!last MPEX S.DICE	[19:35]
assbot	Last trade for S.DICE on MPEX was at 0.0044444 BTC [+]	[19:35]
mod6	and with UNIX, it's tried and true, open and tested. and loved by the best compsci people in the world for a /reason/	[19:35]
mod6	mircea_popescu & MPOE-PR are right, the btctalk people are turbo-idiots	[19:35]
mod6		[19:36]
mod6	s/?/>/	[19:36]
mod6	=)	[19:36]
mod6	well, i guess he's only had 3 posts.	[19:37]
mod6	still, what a toolbox	[19:37]
mod6	and I think since gox is all fuxd all the time with its price signals	[19:38]
mod6	the OIX is simply getting to be a better ave	[19:38]
mod6	http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg30zig2-hourztgSzbgBza1gTMAzm1g30za2gTMAzm2g200zi1gMACDzi2gWilliamRzi3gCVolatilityzv	[19:40]
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ThickAsThieves	the william % pattern on that chart is interesting	[19:42]
mod6	i dunno, it seems pretty accurate, i guess because the price signals from gox fuel which strikes are most active..	[19:42]
ThickAsThieves	the dips look the same	[19:42]
mod6	but you can trade on MPEx evne through the heaviest and most coordinated DDoS attacks and it's solid	[19:42]
ThickAsThieves	sadly people use gox as indicator	[19:43]
ThickAsThieves	have to choose something	[19:43]
mod6	the fact we hang on gox data so much needs to change imho	[19:43]
mod6	ThickAsThieves: exactly	[19:43]
mod6	it would be awesome if it was "just one signal for price"	[19:43]
mod6	but its /the/ signal for price	[19:43]
ThickAsThieves	i really believe that when their suggested price gets stuck, it pulls down the whole market	[19:43]
ThickAsThieves	it gets stuck whenever there's a dip	[19:44]
mod6	everyone else wants to sell their BTC to tiberiusiv for $25 if there is too low of vol and the price collapses	[19:44]
ThickAsThieves	coincidence or instigatation?	[19:44]
mod6	i don't think anyone should choose anything per-se	[19:44]
ThickAsThieves	instigation*	[19:44]
mod6	i mean, think of how they do gas-station pricing on price per gallon?	[19:45]
tiberiusiv	gox market share is already declining	[19:45]
ThickAsThieves	but they arent used any less as a price	[19:45]
tiberiusiv	they will be	[19:45]
mod6	3 stations, three corners of the intersection.	[19:45]
tiberiusiv	theres nothing wrong with the gox price	[19:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.4792 = 1.4376 BTC [-]	[19:46]
tiberiusiv	its the within the same range as all the other exchanges	[19:46]
tiberiusiv	whats the difference whose price you use? gox at the moment simply is the most liquid	[19:46]
tiberiusiv	mod6: gasoline is one of the most competitive markets around	[19:46]
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ThickAsThieves	but arent 'all of the other sxchanges" basing decsisions on gox?	[19:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.47915 = 0.9583 BTC [-]	[19:47]
tiberiusiv	no	[19:47]
tiberiusiv	of course not thickasthieves	[19:47]
mod6	but...	[19:47]
tiberiusiv	gox does NOT set bitcoin prices for everyone	[19:47]
ThickAsThieves	i dont use many exchanges so i cant say	[19:47]
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ThickAsThieves	but the ones i use	[19:47]
tiberiusiv	they simply have the most participants	[19:47]
ThickAsThieves	all trail gox	[19:47]
tiberiusiv	becuase their liquidity is lower	[19:47]
tiberiusiv	they dont trail gox, they just have less activity	[19:47]
tiberiusiv	so it seems like it	[19:47]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.479101 = 3.8328 BTC [-]	[19:48]
ThickAsThieves	i see it on campbx all the time	[19:48]
ThickAsThieves	price drops 5	[19:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00070068 = 0.9109 BTC [-]	[19:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00070069 = 3.5035 BTC [+]	[19:48]
ThickAsThieves	then 30secs later it does on campbx	[19:48]
ThickAsThieves	lotsa bots out there	[19:48]
ThickAsThieves	using goxprice	[19:48]
mod6	there needs to be a few more exchanges with just as much or more liquidity and volume which don't race eachother to "a bottom" but just find a happy stable price amongst themselfs	[19:48]
mod6	like gas station pricing	[19:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.4791005 = 1.9164 BTC [-]	[19:49]
mod6	you know what I mean?	[19:49]
tiberiusiv	they arent racing each other to a bottom	[19:49]
tiberiusiv	you are an idiot	[19:49]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[19:49]
tiberiusiv	the exchanges do not sell a product	[19:49]
ThickAsThieves	eeediot!	[19:49]
tiberiusiv	gas stations sell a product	[19:49]
tiberiusiv	exchanges are simply forums for people to gather and through the auction style set prices	[19:50]
mod6	;;gpg info tiberiusiv	[19:50]
gribble	No such user registered.	[19:50]
mod6	FUCK OF DICKWAD	[19:50]
mod6	*OFF too :)	[19:50]
tiberiusiv	you have 0 clue what you are talking about mod6 so be quiet :)	[19:50]
*	mod6 looks for EB	[19:51]
tiberiusiv	thickasthieves: campbx is extremely illiquid, that is why it seems it lags mtgox	[19:51]
tiberiusiv	there isnt enough participants on campbx	[19:51]
ThickAsThieves	but you dont think their bots influence price based on gox?	[19:51]
tiberiusiv	no	[19:51]
tiberiusiv	its not based on gox	[19:51]
tiberiusiv	thats what the market is doing	[19:52]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.478999 = 2.395 BTC [-]	[19:52]
tiberiusiv	gox has nothing to do with it	[19:52]
mod6	stfu	[19:52]
tiberiusiv	participants needed US dollars for whatever reason so they sold bitcoins	[19:52]
ThickAsThieves	so the whole market coincidently drops $5 when gox does, with no relation?	[19:52]
tiberiusiv	its simple as that, and there were no willing buyers to pickup that size	[19:52]
tiberiusiv	so the price declines until buyers are willing to eat up the size offered	[19:52]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.468999 = 4.69 BTC [-]	[19:53]
ThickAsThieves	even then, buyers are influenced by gox	[19:53]
tiberiusiv	thickasthieves: the WHOLE market is 1 place.	[19:53]
ThickAsThieves	...	[19:53]
mod6	you fucking dipshit	[19:53]
ThickAsThieves	so if someone sells 10000 coins on gox	[19:53]
tiberiusiv	if oil drops in the US	[19:53]
mod6	thats what i've been trying to say	[19:53]
tiberiusiv	it drops worldwide	[19:53]
mod6	STFU	[19:53]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[19:53]
mod6	what in the world are you doing her	[19:53]
tiberiusiv	mod6: mtgox is not the whole market	[19:53]
mod6	*here	[19:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.44 BTC [-]	[19:54]
ThickAsThieves	i'm getting trolled or what?	[19:54]
splnkr	the market is fragmented. that's the issue.	[19:54]
Bugpowder	;;bids 0	[19:54]
mod6	yes	[19:54]
tiberiusiv	quit thinking exchanges are seperate markets	[19:54]
gribble	There are currently 37048263 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 6222641.70973 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0152 seconds	[19:54]
mod6	by eskimobob	[19:54]
tiberiusiv	they arent	[19:54]
tiberiusiv	they are the SAME market	[19:54]
tiberiusiv	can you comprehend that concept?	[19:54]
splnkr	mt gox is the biggest so it gets the attention	[19:54]
ThickAsThieves	wait tiberius is eskimobob?	[19:54]
tiberiusiv	i dont even know who that is	[19:54]
splnkr	without a liquid means of exchanging non-BTC funds among exchanges, i don't see how they're one market	[19:54]
Bugpowder	tiberiusiv: THey are the same market but there is friction in the links. Very similar to the natural gas market	[19:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.43000001 BTC [-]	[19:55]
Bugpowder	Europe will pay much more than US if russia turns off the taps, but the effects are still felt globally	[19:55]
tiberiusiv	there is 1 BTC market with many venues where to meet buyers or sellers	[19:55]
ThickAsThieves	i think its absurd to say that gox doesnt have influence on MANY fronts that influence price	[19:55]
tiberiusiv	gox itself is just the most liquid of those venues	[19:55]
tiberiusiv	thereby the most accurate	[19:55]
splnkr	tiberiusiv: this is a semantic argument	[19:55]
Bugpowder	the gox market definitely sets the price	[19:55]
mod6	NO	[19:55]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.43 BTC [-]	[19:56]
splnkr	my understanding of "market" is a place where buyers and sellers can exchange	[19:56]
Bugpowder	plot the prices of various exchanges vs. gox	[19:56]
splnkr	not just a specific type of asset	[19:56]
Bugpowder	gox leads all moves	[19:56]
tiberiusiv	becuase its the most liquid	[19:56]
tiberiusiv	from having the most participants	[19:56]
Bugpowder	yes	[19:56]
Bugpowder	It has the most volume by far	[19:56]
tiberiusiv	the others only seem like that lag, because of lack of activity	[19:56]
Bugpowder	they DO lag	[19:56]
tiberiusiv	they*	[19:57]
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ThickAsThieves	they lead thru buyer using it as spot, thru bots using it, thru asset exchanges using, thru chart reports using it	[19:57]
mod6	and how is that fucking different than what i was trying to say before you called me an idiot you faggot	[19:57]
tiberiusiv	mod6: you are an idiot.	[19:57]
tiberiusiv	you thought mtgox is a gas station	[19:57]
tiberiusiv	they dont sell a product.	[19:57]
ThickAsThieves	...	[19:57]
mod6	im using it as a simple example dickweed	[19:57]
tiberiusiv	its an incorrect example	[19:57]
mod6	i expected someone as smart as yourself to know the differnce	[19:57]
Bugpowder	gox users do not pay attention to the price on any other exchange	[19:57]
ThickAsThieves	can i get diesel with bitcoin?	[19:57]
tiberiusiv	you didnt know the difference between the 2	[19:57]
Bugpowder	all other exchages pay attention to the gox price	[19:57]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.42000001 BTC [-]	[19:58]
mod6	GRRRRRR	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	bugpowder: bots arbitrage all the exchanges	[19:58]
Bugpowder	my local bitcoins sale price is based on gox.	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	seeking the best bids/asks	[19:58]
mod6	you make me almost want to rage quit this shit	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	therefore its ONE market	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	mod6 stfu.	[19:58]
Bugpowder	tiberiusiv: too much transfer friction	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	retarded gas station analogy	[19:58]
mod6	NO YOU STFU	[19:58]
ThickAsThieves	relax mod6	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	bugpowder: yes at the moment	[19:58]
ThickAsThieves	just ignir ehim	[19:58]
ThickAsThieves	ignore*	[19:58]
Bugpowder	this point seems fairly academic though	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	yea mtgox is a gas station	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	on a street corner driving prices down	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	lmao	[19:58]
tiberiusiv	fucking child	[19:59]
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Bugpowder	gox is more like the CME	[19:59]
tiberiusiv	competing exchanges only drive down trading fees	[19:59]
tiberiusiv	not BTC price	[19:59]
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ThickAsThieves	lol	[19:59]
ThickAsThieves	anyway	[19:59]
Bugpowder	and there are other exchanges that trade pigs and steers and frozen concentrate OJ futures. But CME dominates them	[19:59]
Bugpowder	;;ticker	[20:00]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 63.25112, Best ask: 63.97999, Bid-ask spread: 0.72887, Last trade: 63.97999, 24 hour volume: 159365.08473773, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 72.86999, 24 hour vwap: 63.87592	[20:00]
Bugpowder	still too early to buy calls	[20:00]
ThickAsThieves	like i said when Gox data freezes, like their socket, or more importantly, their suggested price in the Buybox, it effectively changes the price to that until it stops	[20:00]
Bugpowder	ThickAsThieves: I disagree. There price just becomes unknown.	[20:00]
ThickAsThieves	but when you log in to gox	[20:00]
ThickAsThieves	it doesnt indicate any problem	[20:01]
Bugpowder	traders with enough capital to move the market understand what is happening	[20:01]
ThickAsThieves	it just gets stuck at suggesting you pay 66 for 5 minutes	[20:01]
Bugpowder	maybe joe reddit with his 5 bitcoins gets confused	[20:01]
Bugpowder	but Bugpowder knows	[20:01]
ThickAsThieves	there are a lot of those	[20:01]
Bugpowder	yes and they whine alot too	[20:01]
tiberiusiv	thats not the suggested price in the buy box	[20:02]
tiberiusiv	thats the last price.	[20:02]
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Bugpowder	their post volume vs BTC volume is all out of whack	[20:02]
tiberiusiv	if it freezes or not means nothing	[20:02]
tiberiusiv	last price means NOTHING.	[20:02]
tiberiusiv	its the past.	[20:02]
tiberiusiv	the 2 prices most important are BIDS and ASKS	[20:02]
tiberiusiv	and the SIZEs	[20:02]
Bugpowder	yeah but the bid and ask are stale under high trading volume	[20:03]
ThickAsThieves	SR buyers, people who just buy when wthey get their deposits, people cashing out	[20:03]
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ThickAsThieves	none pay much mind to the orderbooks	[20:03]
Bugpowder	sometimes they lag by 10 minutes	[20:03]
ThickAsThieves	gox buybox says, pay this price and you get your coins	[20:03]
tiberiusiv	if you are cashing out you are paying attention to BIDS	[20:03]
tiberiusiv	not to LAST price	[20:03]
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tiberiusiv	no it doesnt	[20:03]
Bugpowder	so just place your limit orders where you what to buy or sell and hope fulr the best	[20:03]
chmod755	;;seen bulls	[20:03]
gribble	I have not seen bulls.	[20:03]
chmod755	omg	[20:03]
tiberiusiv	it simply says what the last sale was	[20:03]
chmod755	;;seen bears	[20:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 57 @ 0.004159 = 0.2371 BTC [+]	[20:03]
gribble	I have not seen bears.	[20:03]
ThickAsThieves	it doesnt say it literally, but effectively	[20:03]
chmod755	OMG	[20:03]
tiberiusiv	thickasthieves go read a book.	[20:03]
tiberiusiv	a seller looks for the bid, and a buyer looks for the ask	[20:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.64 BTC [-]	[20:04]
Bugpowder	Gox website price is horribly inaccurate.	[20:04]
tiberiusiv	last price is just data on the past	[20:04]
ThickAsThieves	i know what fucking last price is	[20:04]
tiberiusiv	gox website could be a blank page and it would make 0 difference	[20:04]
Bugpowder	under high load.	[20:04]
ThickAsThieves	but they PUT it in the bud box for you	[20:04]
ThickAsThieves	bidb box	[20:04]
smickles	oh you guys and your semantical differences	[20:04]
ThickAsThieves	therefore	[20:04]
smickles	lol	[20:04]
ThickAsThieves	its suggested	[20:04]
smickles	market != market	[20:04]
smickles	ambiguity fueling rage :D	[20:05]
ThickAsThieves	and you really want to underestimate the population's neglect of orderbooks when buying bitcoin?	[20:05]
ThickAsThieves	these people arent day traders	[20:05]
Bugpowder	I'm just annoyed that I had a 100BTC buy order at 52.139 that didn't quite get hit on the dip	[20:05]
tiberiusiv	they cant neglect it.	[20:05]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[20:06]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 63.00001, Best ask: 63.12648, Bid-ask spread: 0.12647, Last trade: 63.00001, 24 hour volume: 159630.25515694, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 72.86999, 24 hour vwap: 63.87384	[20:06]
tiberiusiv	when you buy BTC you can only buy what is offered at X price	[20:06]
tiberiusiv	it doesnt mean jackshit what the last price was	[20:06]
Bugpowder	ThickAsThieves: people that ignore it are n00bs that don't move the market	[20:06]
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tiberiusiv	you cant ignore it, its impossible	[20:06]
chmod755	erryone trades on gox - chmod doesnt - is getting rich faster	[20:06]
tiberiusiv	if i want to buy 10k BTC right now, i cant get it at the LAST porice	[20:06]
Bugpowder	What moves the market are people trading 100-10000 BTC. All of them know the game... At least after the first time they get goxraped.	[20:06]
tiberiusiv	i have to buy it at whats being offered	[20:06]
ThickAsThieves	hard to say on one day that Cyprus or other good news causes btc to go up, yet the market isnt easily influenced on bid price	[20:06]
tiberiusiv	thickasthieves you are clueless to markets.	[20:06]
tiberiusiv	news tends to lag price	[20:07]
tiberiusiv	BTC was already in an uptrend long before any cyprus news	[20:07]
smickles	my bot used the mtgox order book to a given depth to determin spot	[20:07]
chmod755	tiberiusiv, yes	[20:07]
ThickAsThieves	smickles, how dare you!	[20:08]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[20:08]
tiberiusiv	2012 had huge positive btc news, yet the price was still LOWER then 2011.	[20:08]
tiberiusiv	by the time something is news, its already OLD	[20:08]
Bugpowder	tiberiusiv: not always	[20:08]
smickles	also, i feel most -otc trades go something like "i'll sell 1 btc", "at what rate?", "let me check gox, ;;ticker"	[20:08]
ThickAsThieves	so you think all this uptake to the current price is mostly big players, and not amatuer speculators?	[20:08]
smickles	so in both those senses, gox sets the price	[20:09]
tiberiusiv	bugpowder: almost always other then unexpected events	[20:09]
Bugpowder	ThickAsThieves: the current price is mostly big speculators	[20:09]
smickles	not the company, mind you, the users	[20:09]
tiberiusiv	bugpowder: notice how no one wanted to trade their house for BTC at $2, but now at 70 everyone wants BTC?	[20:09]
ThickAsThieves	can we actually know that?	[20:09]
Bugpowder	tiberiusiv: yes, in an efficent market. Cyprus was big news and unexpected.	[20:09]
tiberiusiv	cyprus has been expected for over 2 years.	[20:09]
smickles	tiberiusiv: i was trying to sell a house when btc was at 2	[20:09]
tiberiusiv	what are you talking about?	[20:09]
smickles	for btc	[20:09]
smickles	so you're a little off base	[20:09]
tiberiusiv	lol smickles	[20:10]
Bugpowder	Deposit haircut was not anticipated	[20:10]
smickles	i even put it in the -otc order book	[20:10]
Bugpowder	by the general market	[20:10]
chmod755	cyprus is 0.1% of the eurozone	[20:10]
Bugpowder	nor buy cypriots or russians	[20:10]
benkay	;;goxlag	[20:10]
gribble	13.503203 seconds	[20:10]
tiberiusiv	bugpowder: sure it was, all the major players already removed $ out of cyprus	[20:10]
splnkr	cyprus + mtgox--->USA + ASIC mining	[20:10]
tiberiusiv	bugpowder: it wasnt expected by the idiots who stayed	[20:10]
splnkr	lots of external factors affecting price right now besides trading	[20:11]
smickles	splnkr: nice chart	[20:11]
Bugpowder	well... back down to $50 today?	[20:11]
tiberiusiv	bugpowder: majority of russian funds were converted into german bonds over a year ago.	[20:11]
tiberiusiv	hence why german paper had negative interest rates	[20:11]
ThickAsThieves	in summary, gox influences price heavily, i have not heard a sound argument otherwise	[20:11]
tiberiusiv	considering gox is 80% of participants	[20:12]
tiberiusiv	of course its the most important venue.	[20:12]
splnkr	that figure is from 2 years ago isn't it	[20:12]
mjr_	it is	[20:12]
tiberiusiv	its still over 70%	[20:12]
smickles	long story short, with the house i was trying to sell for btc, i ended up getting a qualified renter who declined to use btc to pay rent	[20:12]
Bugpowder	tiberiusiv: I agree there has been a move to bunds.	[20:12]
chmod755	big news about cyprus.... a country with 300,000 citizens.... as a EU citizen nothing has changed for me during the last 5 years	[20:12]
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mjr_	i would love to see what percentage of gox trades make up daily blockchain transactions	[20:12]
chmod755	it's all just FUD	[20:13]
smickles	mjr_: watch bitcoin-monitor.com	[20:13]
benkay	do gox trades even hit the chain?	[20:13]
mjr_	not sure, but gox is definitely the worst	[20:13]
smickles	oh, no hyphen	[20:13]
benkay	i thought their system traded internally until you pulled funds	[20:13]
mjr_	it exacerbates any price movements	[20:13]
smickles	http://bitcoinmonitor.com	[20:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 10 @ 0.009898 = 0.099 BTC [-]	[20:13]
mjr_	because of lag	[20:13]
mjr_	when people see price moves...they get in line for 10-120 seconds	[20:14]
tiberiusiv	mjr mtgox doesnt make up a big % of the blockchain transactions	[20:14]
mjr_	and things change	[20:14]
chmod755	i don't understand why people use mtgox	[20:14]
Bugpowder	gox trandes do not hit the chain	[20:14]
Bugpowder	they are all internal	[20:14]
mjr_	ah ok	[20:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.0006928 = 0.9006 BTC [-]	[20:14]
tiberiusiv	another idiot chimes in.	[20:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00069279 = 0.6928 BTC [-]	[20:14]
Bugpowder	that is why the gox hack was reversible	[20:14]
smickles	chmod755: at one point, i made a full switch to bitfloor, then they got robbed	[20:15]
mjr_	i use bitfloor	[20:15]
mjr_	pretty much exclusively	[20:15]
Bugpowder	and I suspect gox lag does contribute to instability	[20:15]
Bugpowder	bitfloor is insolvent	[20:15]
mjr_	well...i bought coins there	[20:15]
Bugpowder	llticker	[20:15]
mjr_	and moved them around	[20:15]
tiberiusiv	so one guy thinks mtgox is a gas station, another that mt gox trades occur on the blockchain and a third who thinks gribble sets the price.	[20:15]
chmod755	wtf is bitfloor	[20:15]
mjr_	so solvent enough for my needs	[20:15]
tiberiusiv	intellect hour in here today	[20:15]
Bugpowder	dude, another crash is on the way	[20:15]
ThickAsThieves	but arent 'all of the other exchanges" basing decsisions on gox?	[20:15]
ThickAsThieves	of course not thickasthieves	[20:15]
ThickAsThieves	gox does NOT set bitcoin prices for everyone	[20:15]
tiberiusiv	mjr: sure your needs, what 0.2btc ? lol	[20:15]
mjr_	100's	[20:16]
ThickAsThieves	[14:12] of course its the most important venue.	[20:16]
chmod755	smickles, it's your choice to trust a web service with your coins.....	[20:16]
tiberiusiv	thickasthieves the exchanges do not base their decisions on gox lol.	[20:16]
mjr_	i use them to buy coins not hold coins	[20:16]
tiberiusiv	gox just has the most participants	[20:16]
mjr_	which last i checked is what exchanges were for	[20:16]
ThickAsThieves	when i say 'exchange' you know i mean in the abstract right?	[20:16]
smickles	tiberiusiv: you may have misunderstood me	[20:16]
tiberiusiv	thickasthives just be quiet. you are stupid	[20:16]
ThickAsThieves	as in buyers, bots, sellers, etc	[20:16]
mjr_	...	[20:17]
mjr_	if you can't see the gas station analogy as price advertising	[20:17]
mjr_	then you are retarded	[20:17]
chmod755	tiberiusiv, gribble sets the price. << that's true. he's one of the richest bots on the entire internet	[20:17]
mjr_	no gas station would say $20 a gallon, when across the street it says $5 a gallon	[20:17]
mjr_	competing markets drive everyone to a certain price set by the market	[20:18]
mjr_	its called price discovery and we are undertaking that right now	[20:18]
*	chmod755 selling for $10,000,000 a gallon	[20:18]
mjr_	btc-e has cheaper prices than gox...	[20:18]
mjr_	bitfloor has higher	[20:18]
chmod755	gox has lag!	[20:18]
mjr_	but that is only because of market inefficiencies	[20:19]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[20:19]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 61.70568, Best ask: 61.70569, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 61.70569, 24 hour volume: 161828.11644717, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 72.35000, 24 hour vwap: 63.81619	[20:19]
ThickAsThieves	eek!	[20:19]
mjr_	;;goxlag	[20:19]
gribble	0 seconds	[20:19]
ThickAsThieves	calm before the storm	[20:19]
chmod755	lol	[20:19]
ThickAsThieves	gox is a standard because a standard was needed to let the market work better	[20:19]
smickles	tiberiusiv: what's your point about price discovery and gox? I think i missed it and i don't want to read the log	[20:20]
chmod755	errr well the majority of coins are not on gox	[20:20]
splnkr	coming soon: 24 hour low: 5.234560, 24 hour high: 723.5000	[20:20]
mjr_	splnkr: oh i hope so	[20:20]
splnkr	lol	[20:20]
mjr_	gets ready to buy at 5 before it hits $700	[20:20]
*	Smoovious has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[20:20]
chmod755	ThickAsThieves, so what would happen if gox had a huge security issue....	[20:21]
chmod755	like even big services like FB and Google are not 100% secure	[20:21]
ThickAsThieves	same thing as last time	[20:22]
*	Smoovious (~imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:22]
ThickAsThieves	mega crash	[20:22]
ThickAsThieves	we havent learned i guess	[20:22]
mjr_	then mega recovery	[20:22]
splnkr	yay roller coaster rides	[20:22]
mjr_	day traders boggle me...all you do is make the exchanges rich	[20:22]
mjr_	is bitcoin valuable as an idea? yes	[20:22]
Bugpowder	bitcoin is valuable in my bank account too	[20:23]
chmod755	ThickAsThieves, i think if more people traded on other exchanges it would allow them to make their services more secure and stuff (with fees, etc)	[20:23]
mjr_	its the network effect	[20:23]
mjr_	every user at gox gives a positive externality	[20:23]
ThickAsThieves	sadly when you try supporting other exchanges, all they do is fuck it up	[20:23]
Bugpowder	here is how it workd	[20:23]
Bugpowder	works	[20:23]
Bugpowder	1) make your exchange secure. then 2) I will trade on it	[20:24]
chmod755	ThickAsThieves, bitcoin central never had a problem	[20:24]
chmod755	as an example	[20:24]
chmod755	like a serious problem	[20:24]
Bugpowder	gox probably has the best security right now, due to their previous issues and their capitalization.	[20:24]
ThickAsThieves	they are not US though are they?	[20:24]
Bugpowder	;;ticker	[20:24]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 60.60000, Best ask: 61.30162, Bid-ask spread: 0.70162, Last trade: 60.60000, 24 hour volume: 162492.76340264, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 72.35000, 24 hour vwap: 63.80453	[20:24]
chmod755	ThickAsThieves, mtgox is not in the US	[20:24]
chmod755	coinlab is	[20:24]
ThickAsThieves	but the deal in USD	[20:25]
ThickAsThieves	and dwolla	[20:25]
Bugpowder	coinlab is a major threat	[20:25]
chmod755	ThickAsThieves, i think they also do USD	[20:25]
mjr_	coinlab? gox's partners?	[20:25]
chmod755	and they're almost as old as mtgox	[20:25]
Bugpowder	50% chance they fuck this up	[20:25]
Bugpowder	coinlab has no experience in the big leagues	[20:25]
mjr_	i agree	[20:25]
ThickAsThieves	https://bitcoin-central.net/order_book	[20:25]
splnkr	as far as the current dip i'd point to this http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324373204578374611351125202.html	[20:26]
mjr_	while we are talking about this...someone said that you could place multiple orders on gox ie. with $1000 i can place $1000 orders at multiple price points	[20:26]
splnkr	i believe that was late-breaking news yesterday	[20:26]
Bugpowder	splnkr: This is just a speculative pullback. Not related to WSJ	[20:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 26 @ 0.009898 = 0.2573 BTC [-]	[20:26]
chmod755	mjr_, wtf?	[20:26]
Bugpowder	mjr_: yes, but only what you have will get filled	[20:27]
*	Thinker_ has quit (Quit: Client exiting)	[20:27]
ThickAsThieves	the irony is that lesser exchanges must match gox price to have a fair chance of getting enough users to not rely on gox	[20:27]
Bugpowder	I'm not sure if all will display on the order chart if you don't have the funds	[20:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 44 @ 0.009899 = 0.4356 BTC [+]	[20:27]
ThickAsThieves	cant use bitcoincentral when they wasnt such a premium in USD	[20:27]
ThickAsThieves	want	[20:28]
Bugpowder	ThickAsThieves: first mover advantage. S.DICE will never be beaten by a clone either	[20:28]
jurov	ThickAsThieves it is NOT bitcoincentral's premium	[20:29]
mjr_	yeah, so you are sending manipulative signals into the market	[20:29]
mjr_	i can make the order book look really really thick	[20:29]
mjr_	and then pull the plug	[20:29]
jurov	it's just cause there are more buyers and less sellers there, so to speak	[20:29]
Bugpowder	mjr_: I don't think so	[20:29]
ThickAsThieves	thats the problem at campbx too	[20:29]
Bugpowder	I can test it right now	[20:29]
Bugpowder	hang on	[20:29]
mjr_	if i can place an order...i can cancel that order	[20:29]
chmod755	Bugpowder, game idea: bernankeDICE - bloat bank databases with small bank transactions!	[20:30]
mjr_	chmod755: great idea!	[20:30]
ThickAsThieves	except theyll get ya on fees	[20:30]
Bugpowder	wow. The gox bid ask are soooo far off right now	[20:30]
Bugpowder	64.5	[20:30]
Bugpowder	lol	[20:30]
mjr_	did it work?	[20:31]
kakobrekla	;;ticker	[20:31]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 61.51000, Best ask: 61.99000, Bid-ask spread: 0.48000, Last trade: 62.00001, 24 hour volume: 164600.00323438, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 72.35000, 24 hour vwap: 63.77672	[20:31]
jurov	ThickAsThieves, i think even $5 difference in exchange rate is insignificant in the long run	[20:31]
chmod755	ThickAsThieves, just make a minimum on the bets	[20:31]
Bugpowder	give me a minute	[20:31]
ThickAsThieves	lets do it then	[20:31]
chmod755	lmao	[20:31]
mjr_	what that is called, by the way, is Soft Buying Power	[20:31]
chmod755	i don't have a bank account in the US tho	[20:31]
ThickAsThieves	it does sound like a good idea on the surface	[20:31]
mjr_	that is the limit to how many orders you can place	[20:31]
chmod755	lmao	[20:31]
mjr_	Hard buying power is the limit to how many orders you can have filled	[20:32]
chmod755	ThickAsThieves, i could do something like that in Europe	[20:32]
mjr_	usually those numbers should be the same or maybe soft bp slightly higher	[20:32]
chmod755	my bank would be surprised	[20:32]
chmod755	lol 1000 transactions of 1EUR?	[20:32]
chmod755	XD	[20:32]
kakobrekla	thats nothing to them	[20:32]
mjr_	merkelDICE?	[20:32]
chmod755	lmao	[20:32]
ThickAsThieves	happens all the time	[20:32]
ThickAsThieves	you;d need a serious scheme	[20:33]
chmod755	ya, but if it changes from like a few tx per month	[20:33]
mjr_	anyways, my point is that gox is probably a horrible signal to listen to	[20:33]
mjr_	at least from a depth perspective	[20:33]
chmod755	mjr_, i prefer listening to music	[20:33]
ThickAsThieves	yet its still the best	[20:33]
mjr_	most used != best	[20:33]
ThickAsThieves	actually	[20:33]
ThickAsThieves	why isnt there in index being used	[20:34]
mjr_	see betamax vs vhs	[20:34]
mjr_	that is the obvious solution...	[20:34]
chmod755	ThickAsThieves, did you try exchanges?	[20:34]
chmod755	*all	[20:34]
ThickAsThieves	obv not	[20:34]
ThickAsThieves	http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/	[20:34]
ThickAsThieves	why not use that	[20:34]
ThickAsThieves	get an index going from otc	[20:34]
ThickAsThieves	weight them all	[20:34]
chmod755	on a small exchange my money is more powerful!	[20:35]
ThickAsThieves	avg	[20:35]
chmod755	XD	[20:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C610T] 10 @ 0.0807819 = 0.8078 BTC [-]	[20:35]
Bugpowder	This is weighted.	[20:36]
Bugpowder	http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currencies/	[20:36]
mjr_	yes, it is more accurate...but still subjective somewhat	[20:36]
mjr_	because you basically choose what to include	[20:36]
mjr_	otc is a good price signal i think	[20:36]
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chmod755	http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/ << should add a pie of exchanges too (not only exchanges per currency and currencies)	[20:37]
mjr_	i agree	[20:37]
*	jhunt (~jhunt@c-98-234-237-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:38]
mjr_	Bugpowder: can you place more orders than you have BP for?	[20:38]
ThickAsThieves	so we have lotsa good data	[20:38]
Bugpowder	goxlag is delaying	[20:38]
ThickAsThieves	plus oix	[20:38]
Bugpowder	I placed them, they are pending	[20:38]
ThickAsThieves	someone make an index	[20:38]
mjr_	gah, i hate gox	[20:38]
ThickAsThieves	make that index have the best sockets or whatever	[20:38]
mjr_	if i had my choice i would buy on btc-e and sell on bitfloor	[20:39]
ThickAsThieves	and become the standard	[20:39]
mjr_	all day long	[20:39]
Bugpowder	mjr_ I have the answer	[20:39]
Bugpowder	You can place more bids than you have funds for	[20:39]
mjr_	yes	[20:39]
mjr_	i know	[20:39]
Bugpowder	BUT	[20:39]
mjr_	the suspense is killing me	[20:39]
Bugpowder	The bids you don't have funds for are not listed on the order book, starting from the lowest price down.	[20:40]
mjr_	wait...	[20:40]
mjr_	on a buy order or sell?	[20:40]
mjr_	do they put the orders closest to top of the book or furthest	[20:40]
Bugpowder	So I placed a set of bids at 45-50, and by bids at 30 and 35 that I no longer have funds for disappear from the order bood	[20:41]
Bugpowder	book	[20:41]
Bugpowder	but they are still listed on my own page as existing but unfunded.	[20:41]
mjr_	does that include api?	[20:41]
mjr_	ie. goxlive charts etc	[20:41]
Bugpowder	what is the order book json?	[20:41]
mjr_	hold on	[20:42]
mjr_	there site is slow too	[20:42]
mjr_	https://data.mtgox.com/api/0/data/getDepth.php?Currency=USD	[20:44]
mjr_	http://data.mtgox.com/api/1/BTCUSD/depth/fetch	[20:45]
smickles	THE order book json?	[20:47]
smickles	$depth	[20:47]
mpexbot	smickles: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=hRPB9a5i	[20:47]
smickles	;D	[20:47]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.0006928 = 0.9006 BTC [+]	[20:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5771 @ 0.00069279 = 3.9981 BTC [-]	[20:47]
Bugpowder	mjr_: those are incomplete	[20:47]
mjr_	yes i saw	[20:47]
mjr_	not sure where the complete book is	[20:48]
mjr_	not sure if they show it, but the end result is that there will be changes in the book that may not be expected	[20:49]
mjr_	especially if someone is running a bot and market making	[20:49]
Bugpowder	OK I confirmed it on clarkmoody	[20:50]
Bugpowder	the unfunded bids don't display	[20:51]
mjr_	it disappears?	[20:51]
Bugpowder	yes	[20:51]
mjr_	ah ok	[20:51]
mjr_	not that bad then	[20:51]
Bugpowder	and the partially funded one shows up as 92.39 BTC instead of 100 BTC	[20:51]
mjr_	same with asks i am assuming	[20:51]
smickles	;;calc 75/(1-.032)	[20:52]
gribble	77.479338843	[20:52]
smickles	;;ticker	[20:52]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 62.52000, Best ask: 63.64999, Bid-ask spread: 1.12999, Last trade: 63.64999, 24 hour volume: 165216.67676446, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 71.99000, 24 hour vwap: 63.76409	[20:52]
Bugpowder	almost certainly	[20:52]
smickles	$vwap ^oix	[20:52]
mpexbot	smickles: 1 day: no data 7 day: average: 67.50549924 high: 70.00595985 low: 51.26011131 volume: 14615 btc: 3124.38329456 30 day: no data	[20:52]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00463 BTC [-]	[20:57]
smickles	$depth c750t	[21:03]
mpexbot	smickles: O.BTCUSD.C750T Bids: ['11 @ 0.03308446', '1000 @ 0.00823144']	[21:03]
mpexbot	smickles: Asks: ['13 @ 0.04908448', '1000 @ 0.05281501']	[21:03]
smickles	;;calc 75/(1-.033)	[21:04]
gribble	77.5594622544	[21:04]
*	sgornick (~steve@unaffiliated/sgornick) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:05]
smickles	$vwap oix	[21:05]
mpexbot	smickles: ^OIX 1 day: no data 7 day: average: 67.50549924 high: 70.00595985 low: 51.26011131 volume: 14615 btc: 3124.38329456 30 day: no data	[21:05]
mjr_	http://i.imgur.com/sHLF27s.jpg	[21:06]
mjr_	hilarious	[21:06]
mjr_	and we find 120 seconds lag frustrating	[21:06]
kakobrekla	;;bc,stats	[21:06]
gribble	Current Blocks: 227645 \| Current Difficulty: 4847647.152065606 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 227807 \| Next Difficulty In: 162 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 18 hours, 25 minutes, and 35 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 6615572.09208 \| Estimated Percent Change: 36.46975	[21:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.509 = 4.072 BTC [+]	[21:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.509 = 4.581 BTC [+]	[21:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 6 @ 0.509 = 3.054 BTC [+]	[21:12]
smickles	heh, goat is asking me about my offer to help people short s.mpoe	[21:13]
smickles	$depth mpoe	[21:13]
mpexbot	smickles: S.MPOE Bids: ['8990 @ 0.00069279', '5000 @ 0.00068222', '10000 @ 0.00068141', '4062 @ 0.00068033', '13500 @ 0.00067591']	[21:13]
mpexbot	smickles: Asks: ['1300 @ 0.00070068', '732 @ 0.00070069', '1300 @ 0.00070069', '22678 @ 0.0007007', '26444 @ 0.00070184']	[21:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 56 @ 0.509 = 28.504 BTC [+]	[21:14]
benkay	;;goxlag	[21:14]
gribble	4.446135 seconds	[21:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.80698 = 1.614 BTC [-]	[21:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.80755 BTC [+]	[21:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.80769 = 3.2308 BTC [+]	[21:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.8077 = 8.077 BTC [+]	[21:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.8077 = 4.0385 BTC [+]	[21:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 20 @ 0.80945 = 16.189 BTC [+]	[21:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.80947 = 8.0947 BTC [+]	[21:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.83 BTC [+]	[21:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.835 = 3.34 BTC [+]	[21:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.84 BTC [+]	[21:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.845 BTC [+]	[21:15]
ThickAsThieves	someone is hungry for some AM	[21:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.8517 = 6.8136 BTC [+]	[21:16]
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Bugpowder	mjr_: Joe Reddit mad at coin base. No sympathy here.	[21:16]
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kakobrekla	regarding coinbase, what can you expect from mactards	[21:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00070068 = 0.9109 BTC [+]	[21:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 732 @ 0.00070069 = 0.5129 BTC [+]	[21:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00070069 = 0.9109 BTC [+]	[21:19]
Namworld	producing nice design and poor code?	[21:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7668 @ 0.0007007 = 5.373 BTC [+]	[21:19]
kakobrekla	yes bootstrap is not too bad	[21:19]
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*	farfi (~farfi@77.125.1.89) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:20]
kakobrekla	hackers should do code, finance people should do finance and mactards can go play in the sandbox	[21:20]
chmod755	and kakobrekla should do kakobrekla!	[21:21]
*	Doffx has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)	[21:24]
kakobrekla	yeah ill self do myself with self	[21:24]
*	benkay has quit (Quit: benkay)	[21:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15010 @ 0.0007007 = 10.5175 BTC [+]	[21:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26444 @ 0.00070184 = 18.5595 BTC [+]	[21:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5646 @ 0.00070741 = 3.994 BTC [+]	[21:25]
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smickles	;;ticker	[21:26]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 61.40136, Best ask: 61.50110, Bid-ask spread: 0.09974, Last trade: 61.50109, 24 hour volume: 167094.40968927, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 71.79900, 24 hour vwap: 63.67427	[21:26]
smickles	falling again	[21:27]
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*	Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)	[21:32]
ThickAsThieves	;;asks 70	[21:32]
gribble	There are currently 8894.1816 bitcoins offered at or under 70.0 USD, worth 602226.070138 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0026 seconds	[21:33]
ThickAsThieves	still a chance we'll see 70 again before Monday	[21:33]
Bugpowder	dude	[21:33]
Bugpowder	we will see 70 soon	[21:33]
Bugpowder	sunday night, when the wires start clearing	[21:33]
Bugpowder	I think	[21:33]
ThickAsThieves	and then 66 again	[21:33]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[21:33]
Bugpowder	but who knows	[21:33]
ThickAsThieves	i do think a bump is incoming	[21:33]
ThickAsThieves	new ATH	[21:34]
ThickAsThieves	yes i jinxed it	[21:34]
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tiberiusiv	bugpowder: wires clearing has nothing to do with anything.	[21:34]
tiberiusiv	first off bidders would already have been buying BTC, just to flip them to the new buyers if "wires clearing" bs. was true	[21:35]
tiberiusiv	amazing the level of ignorance of users.	[21:35]
ThickAsThieves	my name is tiberius and everything you say has nothing to do with anything	[21:36]
tiberiusiv	any new demand that is held up by technicalities is already priced in	[21:36]
tiberiusiv	people love to rationalize and explain away why something is at X price	[21:37]
tiberiusiv	and where it "should be"	[21:37]
ThickAsThieves	thats what traders do	[21:37]
tiberiusiv	yes and theres a reason 99% of them lose	[21:37]
deadweasel	99%?	[21:37]
tiberiusiv	yes	[21:38]
ThickAsThieves	he meant 9900%	[21:38]
tiberiusiv	1% of traders are profitable in the long term	[21:38]
tiberiusiv	even on wallstreet	[21:38]
ThickAsThieves	like everyone but him basically	[21:38]
deadweasel	traders of what, exactly?	[21:38]
tiberiusiv	anything	[21:38]
tiberiusiv	for example majority of fund managers cannot even beat the Sp500	[21:38]
tiberiusiv	look it up	[21:38]
deadweasel	we all die in the end	[21:39]
tiberiusiv	trading is 0 sum, for someone to make money there has to be a loser	[21:39]
tiberiusiv	theres a reason why its the same people making the $ over and over	[21:39]
tiberiusiv	and very few of them	[21:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.0007074 = 0.9196 BTC [-]	[21:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 203 @ 0.00070741 = 0.1436 BTC [+]	[21:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6755 @ 0.00070741 = 4.7786 BTC [+]	[21:39]
deadweasel	because they speculate correctly?	[21:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8142 @ 0.00071369 = 5.8109 BTC [+]	[21:39]
tiberiusiv	look at the bitcoin crowd for example, less then 1% of thetotal "community" contributes anything	[21:40]
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tiberiusiv	its like what 20-30 individuals running services?	[21:40]
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deadweasel	are any of them making money?	[21:40]
tiberiusiv	so it will be a natural tendancy even in bitcoin for 1% to have all the wealth	[21:40]
Bugpowder	tiberiusiv: you are confusing an efficient market with the mtgox market.	[21:40]
tiberiusiv	and 99% to have little	[21:40]
Bugpowder	The tendency for downward moves during the weekend is real.	[21:41]
tiberiusiv	in bitcoin at the moment, about 20% of the users control 80% of the coins	[21:41]
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ThickAsThieves	the events of the week can probably amplify or dampen that effect as well	[21:41]
tiberiusiv	5% of the users control 50%	[21:41]
Bugpowder	tiberiusiv: that is true in all things	[21:41]
Bugpowder	zipf distribution	[21:41]
deadweasel	yup	[21:41]
awkorama	at least in bitcoin the tail won't be too long	[21:42]
tiberiusiv	since bitcoin has no bailout mechanism, alot of idiotic users ie those that use their coins wrecklessly drop out	[21:42]
tiberiusiv	lending bitcoins for example to people who sell them for fiat, you will lose	[21:42]
tiberiusiv	in the end i would say 1-2% of bitcoiners will control 80%+ of BTC	[21:43]
tiberiusiv	with the remaining 20% being fought over by the 99% percenters	[21:43]
ThickAsThieves	i will concede that generally buying and holding has been the safest way to invest in bitcoin and make profit	[21:43]
tiberiusiv	you havent made a profit until youve realized it.	[21:44]
tiberiusiv	until then its a paper gain	[21:44]
ThickAsThieves	indeed	[21:44]
tiberiusiv	its mathematically impossible for even 5% of total bitcoiners to all cashout	[21:44]
ThickAsThieves	so that gets people seeking dividends	[21:44]
tiberiusiv	100k which is 1% of bitcoins in circulation would collapse the price temporarily into the 30's	[21:44]
tiberiusiv	so imagine 5%	[21:44]
tiberiusiv	thickasthieves: the reality is that there are barely any viable bitcoin derived income producers	[21:45]
tiberiusiv	the only 2 currently are miners and gambling/speculative business's	[21:45]
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ThickAsThieves	they are the most popular as well I think	[21:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.84 BTC [-]	[21:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.771 BTC [-]	[21:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 0.771 = 6.939 BTC [-]	[21:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.77 BTC [-]	[21:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.763 = 3.052 BTC [-]	[21:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.76201 BTC [-]	[21:46]
tiberiusiv	because all other business's are not viable	[21:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 0.761102 = 6.8499 BTC [-]	[21:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 11 @ 0.761102 = 8.3721 BTC [-]	[21:46]
Namworld	mining doesn't seem viable to me anymore	[21:48]
Namworld	Most of minings thing end up being a losing proposition it seems.	[21:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.63 BTC [-]	[21:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.64 BTC [+]	[21:49]
tiberiusiv	thats how it is with metals too	[21:49]
Namworld	^ VTX	[21:49]
tiberiusiv	out of the tens of thousands of metal miners, not even a handful are profitable	[21:49]
Namworld	It's also a Bitcoin derived income.	[21:49]
tiberiusiv	as i said, speculation/gambling	[21:50]
Namworld	It's a currency exchange CAD <-> BTC	[21:50]
tiberiusiv	yes that falls under speculation.	[21:50]
Namworld	Well that's not really speculation to me if it's for cashing out/buying some BTC	[21:50]
tiberiusiv	90% of exchange volume is speculation, only 10% is for someone who actually needs BTC	[21:51]
Namworld	Except for daytraders	[21:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.509 BTC [+]	[21:51]
tiberiusiv	you realize its maybe 10% who are cashing in and out?	[21:51]
tiberiusiv	cashing in to hold BTC is speculation	[21:51]
tiberiusiv	cashing in to buy BTC to trade for something else is not	[21:51]
Namworld	Possibly	[21:52]
tiberiusiv	theres only 2 things you really need BTC for if you want to spend, silkroad and gambling	[21:52]
Namworld	I think most of the current price is speculation	[21:52]
tiberiusiv	anything else its cheaper to use fiat	[21:52]
Namworld	yeah, for that	[21:52]
Namworld	Which is what makes me think the whole current price is mostly speculation	[21:53]
ThickAsThieves	what % of the price is speculation tho	[21:53]
Namworld	Merchants accepting Bitcoins don't get good results it seems	[21:53]
tiberiusiv	all markets in the world are speculative in nature	[21:53]
Namworld	and there's not legit BTC spenders	[21:53]
Namworld	not enough*	[21:53]
tiberiusiv	are you aware 95% of oil contracts are speculators?	[21:53]
tiberiusiv	there doesnt have to be	[21:53]
tiberiusiv	theres no reason to spend BTC on anything other then SK or gambling	[21:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.0006928 = 0.9006 BTC [-]	[21:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8990 @ 0.00069279 = 6.2282 BTC [-]	[21:54]
tiberiusiv	theres nothing wrong with speculation.	[21:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00068222 = 3.4111 BTC [-]	[21:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2510 @ 0.00068141 = 1.7103 BTC [-]	[21:54]
ThickAsThieves	tahts speculation	[21:54]
tiberiusiv	let me give you a simple example	[21:54]
tiberiusiv	suppose you want to purchase a $1k laptop	[21:55]
ThickAsThieves	a chromebook plz	[21:55]
tiberiusiv	are you going to want to get rid of your BTC or your Fiat first?	[21:55]
ThickAsThieves	fiat	[21:55]
tiberiusiv	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law	[21:55]
tiberiusiv	you want to get rid of the "bad" money first	[21:56]
tiberiusiv	thats why any business selling goods that can be obtained with fiat will not be successful.	[21:56]
ThickAsThieves	thats a bit general	[21:57]
tiberiusiv	you will see it progress	[21:57]
tiberiusiv	hence why illegal activites work so well with BTC	[21:57]
smickles	wouldn't ya know it. I go to spend some bitcoins, and the product is on backorder :\|	[21:58]
Namworld	I tried lending and it burned. I tried buying/flipping/holding stocks and it's a huge success. I tried options but I'm kind of failing at that.	[21:58]
Namworld	Good selection of BTC stocks seems to be the way to go.	[21:58]
tiberiusiv	namworld: you can only lend BTC to people/entities that have BTC derived income	[21:58]
Namworld	There's less than 25% of what's available that's actually good/interesting at all tho.	[21:58]
Namworld	It was lent to a miner...	[21:59]
tiberiusiv	which is not even 5 people at this point	[21:59]
tiberiusiv	or reputable miners	[21:59]
jurov	not even 5 people???	[21:59]
Namworld	He was reputable	[21:59]
tiberiusiv	well who has become based incomes?	[21:59]
jurov	me, kakobrekla, mircea_popescu, ukto	[21:59]
jurov	just off my head	[22:00]
Namworld	Gigavps paid, amazingrando defaulted.	[22:00]
tiberiusiv	and satoshi dice	[22:00]
jurov	yea evoorhees, burnside	[22:00]
tiberiusiv	jurov try hard to name more you wont.	[22:00]
Namworld	They were the two largest public miners.	[22:00]
jurov	slush	[22:00]
ThickAsThieves	eleuthria	[22:00]
jurov	jeff/gavin	[22:00]
tiberiusiv	how do they have a bTC income?	[22:01]
jurov	at least one of them gets salary from btc foundation	[22:01]
jurov	plus mining	[22:01]
tiberiusiv	as i said, we are at 0.001% of total users?	[22:01]
tiberiusiv	if not less	[22:02]
tiberiusiv	have debt servicing capability?	[22:02]
jurov	okay but not "less than 5"	[22:02]
tiberiusiv	ok fine 12 :)	[22:02]
ThickAsThieves	i'm playing a drinking game, every time tiberius quotes a % with authority	[22:02]
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ThickAsThieves	XX	[22:02]
tiberiusiv	which is a statistical 0 when compared to the 100k+ BTC users	[22:02]
jurov	archive.org employees (they didn't disclose how much it's yet)	[22:02]
tiberiusiv	lol thickasthieves	[22:03]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[22:03]
tiberiusiv	thats why there is so many scammers, most borrowers are short selling BTC and posting nothing as collateral	[22:04]
jurov	plus i'm sure there were other tens of people who mined in 2009-2011 and now their income is nicely boosted	[22:04]
tiberiusiv	and then they cannot cover their shorts, ie come up with the fiat to buy BTC at 10x the price to repay a loan	[22:04]
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jurov	um, and what are we arguing about? i agree that 1% btc users control over 90% of everything	[22:05]
ThickAsThieves	drink!	[22:05]
tiberiusiv	and 1% will end up with 90% of the coins	[22:05]
tiberiusiv	well 80%	[22:05]
jurov	and thet most of volume is gambling and speculation (often indistinguishable from each other)	[22:05]
tiberiusiv	yes	[22:05]
jurov	no, 90%. if i have btcs on blockchain.info, who controls them?	[22:06]
jurov	i'd say they are under their control practically	[22:06]
tiberiusiv	we arent argueing, i was simply explaining its impossible for a business that accepts BTC only to be viable against a fiat competitor	[22:06]
tiberiusiv	people will always spend their bad money(fiat) first	[22:07]
jurov	not if btc prices are cheaper	[22:07]
tiberiusiv	its impossible for them to be.	[22:08]
gwillen	tiberiusiv: that's now how gresham's law works	[22:08]
tiberiusiv	i know	[22:08]
ThickAsThieves	what if they run off loaned money and then achieve dominance	[22:08]
jurov	we have plenty of externalities here	[22:08]
tiberiusiv	jurov: nope in a fixed monetary system the prices will never be cheaper then fiat.	[22:09]
ThickAsThieves	(with lower prices)	[22:09]
jurov	such as credit card taxes and regulatory bs in many areas	[22:09]
jurov	if they are elided, btc prices can be lower there	[22:09]
tiberiusiv	if you spent your bitcoins 3months ago on a new television, you just paid 300% more for it then paying with fiat	[22:09]
jurov	won't happend with groceries, ofc	[22:09]
tiberiusiv	the only way BTC is cheaper is if the business is completely BTC based	[22:10]
tiberiusiv	meaning input costs are fully paid in BTC	[22:10]
jurov	what about people getting "short" fiat and converting everything to btc?	[22:10]
tiberiusiv	selling electronics and accepting BTC to sell for USD to pay suppliers, will NEVER be cheaper then just using fiat	[22:10]
Namworld	I'm drunk	[22:10]
jurov	there it's much simpler to pay btc than to convert back to fiat	[22:10]
Namworld	Too many % from tiberius	[22:10]
tiberiusiv	jurov: no it isnt	[22:11]
tiberiusiv	its simpler	[22:11]
tiberiusiv	sorry i misread	[22:11]
tiberiusiv	but you still are overpaying in the long run	[22:11]
ThickAsThieves	a business doesnt need to only accept btc	[22:11]
tiberiusiv	vs getting RID of fiat	[22:11]
ThickAsThieves	the can accept both and use fiat for expenses	[22:11]
tiberiusiv	btc sales will always be low or none existant	[22:11]
tiberiusiv	vs fiat	[22:12]
tiberiusiv	other then people who cant obtain the fiat	[22:12]
ThickAsThieves	maybe the amount of sales in btc is enough	[22:12]
tiberiusiv	bitcoinstore is a prime example, it wont be around in its present form in 6months	[22:12]
tiberiusiv	they are resorting to begging tactics for sales	[22:12]
jurov	and alpaca socks croaked long ago, yea?	[22:13]
tiberiusiv	no that seller probably sells 10x in fiat	[22:13]
tiberiusiv	then in BTC	[22:13]
tiberiusiv	bitcoinstore is btc only	[22:13]
tiberiusiv	but there suppliers have to be paid in fiat	[22:13]
jurov	what about the externalities? you didn't reply to that	[22:14]
tiberiusiv	so youve introduced exchange rate fees as well	[22:14]
tiberiusiv	the only externality is someone who doesnt have access to fiat and obtains BTC somehow	[22:14]
tiberiusiv	or a BTC derived income wants to shop	[22:14]
tiberiusiv	which is a tiny tiny customer base	[22:14]
jurov	for example in whole eastern europe it often happens that banks are closed	[22:14]
jurov	and deposits frozen	[22:15]
tiberiusiv	i just said that...	[22:15]
jurov	it isn't reported in media, but in greece it happened several times already in past 5 years	[22:15]
tiberiusiv	and the last thing someone with frozen funds is going to be doing is shopping for laptops on bitcoinstore	[22:15]
pigeons	;;seen topace_	[22:15]
gribble	topace_ was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: haha	[22:15]
tiberiusiv	yes i know jurov	[22:16]
jurov	and even here business cash transactions over 1000 euro are illegal	[22:16]
tiberiusiv	again the customer base for bitcoinstore is too small to be a viable business	[22:16]
tiberiusiv	jurov: they still happen	[22:16]
tiberiusiv	jurov: that means you cant cash buy BTC without breaking the law	[22:17]
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tiberiusiv	bitcoin consumer business's require bitcoin incomes	[22:17]
kakobrekla	the margins on tech stuff are too low	[22:17]
tiberiusiv	of which nobody has other then a tiny %	[22:17]
kakobrekla	they cant dump prices enough	[22:17]
tiberiusiv	they have exchange rate problems too	[22:18]
jurov	again, why you think one can't convert their fiat income right after payday and then use btc exclusively?	[22:18]
tiberiusiv	becuase why?	[22:18]
tiberiusiv	its cheaper to use the fiat to buy the goods you need	[22:18]
jurov	how cheaper?	[22:18]
tiberiusiv	vs being down 5% off the bat just in exchange.	[22:18]
jurov	what 5%	[22:19]
jurov	????	[22:19]
tiberiusiv	bitcoin is better to SAVE in.	[22:19]
tiberiusiv	not to SPEND in	[22:19]
tiberiusiv	that is a critical difference most people do not understand	[22:19]
jurov	i'm talking about BOTH spending and saving	[22:19]
ThickAsThieves	actually if someone did what jurov suggests	[22:19]
jurov	and added safety that once they convert, no one can freeze it	[22:19]
ThickAsThieves	since Jan 1	[22:19]
ThickAsThieves	theyd be doing pretty well	[22:19]
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tiberiusiv	no theyu wouldnt	[22:20]
tiberiusiv	they would only have done well if they saved 100%	[22:20]
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tiberiusiv	if they spent it, they missed out on the gains	[22:20]
ThickAsThieves	they woiuld have the maximum amount of their money in btc	[22:20]
jurov	O.o you lose me here	[22:20]
tiberiusiv	thickasthieves: i just said bitcoin is BETTER to save in	[22:20]
kakobrekla	tiberiusiv is confused.	[22:20]
tiberiusiv	but WORSE to spend with	[22:20]
jurov	so you're suggesting to forego eating etc. and save bitcoins instead?	[22:20]
tiberiusiv	im not confused.	[22:20]
tiberiusiv	no you use fiat for spending	[22:21]
tiberiusiv	and BTC for saving	[22:21]
tiberiusiv	fiat also offers more guarantee of the product	[22:21]
ThickAsThieves	semantics i guess	[22:21]
jurov	look say i get 1000 euro paid. convert them immediately to 25BTC for 40 EURO/BTC	[22:21]
tiberiusiv	its not semantics	[22:21]
tiberiusiv	yes	[22:21]
ThickAsThieves	he doesnt spend it all instantly	[22:22]
tiberiusiv	and then do what?	[22:22]
jurov	then later i convert some back to fiat at 45 EUR/BTC when i need groceries/etc.	[22:22]
jurov	say i convert 15BTC back	[22:22]
tiberiusiv	what if its 35EUR/BTC	[22:22]
tiberiusiv	when you need groceries	[22:22]
ThickAsThieves	saving for even a week in btc can make you money	[22:22]
tiberiusiv	are you going to forego eating?	[22:22]
tiberiusiv	thats not guaranteed.	[22:22]
ThickAsThieves	but grocery gift cards on bitmit?	[22:22]
tiberiusiv	if i saved BTC at $20 in 2011. did i stop eating for an entire year?	[22:23]
ThickAsThieves	do an otc request?	[22:23]
ThickAsThieves	i dunno	[22:23]
jurov	yes that's the risk. but then one has usually only to wait day or two	[22:23]
tiberiusiv	when it went to $5	[22:23]
jurov	for the rate to recover	[22:23]
tiberiusiv	thats not true jurov	[22:23]
tiberiusiv	you had to wait 2 years for the rate to recover from 2011	[22:23]
jurov	when it was not true? last time in 2011	[22:23]
tiberiusiv	what are you talking about?	[22:23]
tiberiusiv	in the summer of 2012	[22:23]
jurov	then your saving would be hit, too	[22:23]
tiberiusiv	15 to 7	[22:23]
tiberiusiv	you waited weeks.	[22:23]
tiberiusiv	YOU DONT HOLD BALANCES YOU NEED TO SPEND IN BTC	[22:24]
tiberiusiv	YOU ONLY HOLD SAVINGS	[22:24]
kakobrekla	CALM THE FUCK DOWN	[22:24]
tiberiusiv	your arguement is wrong.	[22:24]
jurov	that was only 1 month of 12. rest 11 month it would work	[22:24]
awkorama	caps lock war ?	[22:24]
jurov	tiberiusiv is funny	[22:24]
tiberiusiv	so you starve for a month.	[22:24]
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ThickAsThieves	tiberius i think youre pretty smart but a lot of your arguments amount to "no suh!"	[22:24]
ThickAsThieves	arguing to argue or something	[22:25]
jurov	when the banks freeze, you starve too	[22:25]
tiberiusiv	any money you need for immediate consumption or consumption purposes	[22:25]
tiberiusiv	you keep in fiat	[22:25]
tiberiusiv	jurov you have the option of paper cash	[22:25]
tiberiusiv	you dont need to use the bank for anything otherthen cashing a paycheck	[22:25]
ThickAsThieves	of course people will hold some fiat	[22:25]
jurov	but then ALL of your money is inaccessible, with btc you still have half	[22:25]
tiberiusiv	even then you can cash it at 3rd parties	[22:25]
ThickAsThieves	its practical	[22:25]
tiberiusiv	wrong again jurov	[22:25]
ThickAsThieves	people still hold fiat even with credit cards around forever	[22:25]
tiberiusiv	you can hold cash	[22:26]
jurov	yes, you have to get paid in cash	[22:26]
tiberiusiv	BTC should only be used as a savings vehicle, and purchasing equities in viable BTC business's(which are rare)	[22:26]
ThickAsThieves	if the scales tip from fiat to btc, all these dynamics would shift anyway	[22:26]
jurov	your opinion	[22:26]
tiberiusiv	for consumption purposes, especially when liquidity is immediately required	[22:26]
tiberiusiv	ie buying food or paying the rent	[22:26]
tiberiusiv	you should keep cash.	[22:26]
tiberiusiv	unless your lanlord accepts btc for food/rent	[22:27]
jurov	tiberiusiv, everyone gets paid to bank acct here and to get cash you have to pay a fee	[22:27]
jurov	so it's better to convert to btc outright	[22:27]
tiberiusiv	for funds you dont immediately need	[22:27]
tiberiusiv	you cant pay for groceries in btc	[22:27]
tiberiusiv	what cant you comprehend?	[22:27]
Namworld	I pay groceries by converting BTC -> fiat	[22:28]
jurov	yes, i convert back from btc only to pay for 2 weeks of groceries	[22:28]
tiberiusiv	someone that bought BTC on friday with their entire paycheck, is now down 10%+	[22:28]
Namworld	I actually get 100% of my income in BTC	[22:28]
tiberiusiv	they have to wait for the price to rebound in time, of which there is no guarantee	[22:28]
kakobrekla	look tiberiusiv we understand you are butthurt but calm down, its simple math nothing new to see here, move along	[22:28]
jurov	yes, but i believe on average this strategy will be successful	[22:29]
tiberiusiv	anyone that followed your advice over the last 2-3 years has either starved to death or forced to take losses for immediate consumption needs jurov.	[22:29]
jurov	you did?	[22:29]
jurov	so you talk so sure	[22:29]
awkorama	jurov: do you have a bitcoin topped debit card or something ?	[22:29]
tiberiusiv	a secret one that hes not telling us about	[22:29]
jurov	no. but i can convert to bitcoins in 2 days with seap transfer	[22:30]
jurov	*sepa	[22:30]
kakobrekla	2 hours	[22:30]
jurov	and back	[22:30]
tiberiusiv	what if the price tanks?	[22:30]
tiberiusiv	and you need to pay rent or buy food	[22:30]
tiberiusiv	or need immediate cash to buy things	[22:30]
jurov	then i either lend fiat	[22:30]
tiberiusiv	do you go hungry?	[22:30]
jurov	or convert anyway	[22:30]
tiberiusiv	as i stated numerous times	[22:30]
*	assbot sets ban on !@gateway/tor-sasl/tiberiusiv	[22:30]
jurov	because i expect that the rest of my btc investment will make up for that	[22:31]
jurov	oooh ban? why?	[22:31]
smickles	woah, ban	[22:33]
smickles	fairly rare	[22:33]
kakobrekla	you know, to be here, you have to be able to grasp price of btc can go down, is all.	[22:33]
jurov	so then i should be banned, no?	[22:33]
jurov	lol	[22:33]
kakobrekla	:p	[22:34]
kakobrekla	you get it	[22:34]
deadweasel	you can grasp it and still risk it all :)	[22:34]
*	damientrog (~dtrog@109.130.14.45) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:35]
jurov	Church of Gresham's Law	[22:36]
ThickAsThieves	ouch	[22:38]
jurov	and well, if indeed the price falls back to $5.. then i'll get a job, i guess :D	[22:38]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[22:38]
kakobrekla	why would you get a job?	[22:39]
jurov	i couldn't be living off coinbr then	[22:39]
kakobrekla	hm	[22:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00069056 = 2.1407 BTC [+]	[22:40]
jurov	at least not with clear conscience, that is.	[22:40]
*	Uglux (~uglux@46.115.113.68) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:42]
Namworld	What happened to tiberius? Was muted by assbot?	[22:42]
deadweasel	+b	[22:43]
ThickAsThieves	he was a good troll though	[22:43]
Namworld	I still see tiberius in the room	[22:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.BBET] 100 @ 0.0018 = 0.18 BTC [+]	[22:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00069616 = 11.1734 BTC [+]	[22:56]
deadweasel	;;ticker	[22:57]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 61.10002, Best ask: 61.35000, Bid-ask spread: 0.24998, Last trade: 61.10001, 24 hour volume: 165900.25850346, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 70.78800, 24 hour vwap: 63.35623	[22:57]
*	sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)	[23:00]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.07 BTC [-]	[23:01]
Bowjob	tiber is banned?	[23:02]
Bowjob	lol	[23:03]
Bowjob	i hate that guy	[23:03]
*	deadweasel has quit (Quit: leaving)	[23:03]
*	deadweasel (~gr1ffon@216.155.131.75) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:04]
*	Uglux has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[23:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00409 BTC [-]	[23:12]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[23:12]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 62.41109, Best ask: 62.88799, Bid-ask spread: 0.47690, Last trade: 62.84941, 24 hour volume: 159222.47535996, 24 hour low: 52.34560, 24 hour high: 70.78800, 24 hour vwap: 63.16369	[23:12]
*	dullmoment has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[23:13]
*	Doffx (~doff@c-76-28-215-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:16]
*	afa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[23:24]
ThickAsThieves	;;asks 70	[23:25]
gribble	There are currently 9945.1213 bitcoins offered at or under 70.0 USD, worth 678561.252983 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0025 seconds	[23:25]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.014 BTC [+]	[23:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.108 BTC [+]	[23:31]
ThickAsThieves	;;asks 60	[23:32]
gribble	There are currently 0 bitcoins offered at or under 60.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0021 seconds	[23:32]
ThickAsThieves	;;bids 60	[23:33]
gribble	There are currently 5618.6104 bitcoins demanded at or over 60.0 USD, worth 343256.721569 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 9.9809 seconds	[23:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.014 BTC [+]	[23:33]
ThickAsThieves	weak	[23:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 2 @ 0.01401 = 0.028 BTC [+]	[23:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01401 BTC [+]	[23:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.014 BTC [-]	[23:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 10 @ 0.01625 = 0.1625 BTC [+]	[23:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 59 @ 0.01989 = 1.1735 BTC [+]	[23:34]
*	daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)	[23:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01988 BTC [-]	[23:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.01989 BTC [+]	[23:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 99 @ 0.0199 = 1.9701 BTC [+]	[23:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 334 @ 0.019929 = 6.6563 BTC [+]	[23:40]
Namworld	I haven't seen Ukto/Topace in a while	[23:42]
ThickAsThieves	Ukto is around a lot, just coding i think	[23:45]
ThickAsThieves	i think topace said he was taking a break for the weekend	[23:45]
Namworld	oh I see	[23:47]
Namworld	dammit	[23:47]
ThickAsThieves	Ukto chats some in #bitfunder too	[23:47]
jurov	and our fellow goat seems to "wonder how shorting a stock on a guys own exchange would work" haha	[23:50]
jurov	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102333.msg1664519#msg1664519	[23:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16319 @ 0.00069175 = 11.2887 BTC [-]	[23:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1181 @ 0.00069415 = 0.8198 BTC [+]	[23:51]
unbalanced	Namworld, I see you run S.DICE-PT... currently lower than Havelock's SDICE so I wonder could I arb that? I only trade on HI so far but I keep seeing SDICE lower on MPEX and elsewhere so I may need to diversify.	[23:51]
unbalanced	Not sure if arbitrage is the right concept, but at least diversification.	[23:52]
unbalanced	Correct me if I'm wrong, I could only txfr the bitcoins around, not the SDICE shares between passthroughs?	[23:53]
unbalanced	going afk to grab a bite but will swing back later to check logs	[23:54]
*	unbalanced is now known as unbalanced_away	[23:55]
*	Doffx has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[23:55]
*	jan (~jan@tmo-106-236.customers.d1-online.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:56]
*	jan is now known as Guest87922	[23:56]
ThickAsThieves	you could arb if you owned shares in each location, or if you bought on mpex and trasferred (in some bulk, minimums depends on who youre dealing with, as do fees)	[23:56]
*	Bowjob has quit (Quit: Page closed)	[23:57]

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