Forum logs for 21 Jan 2013

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu this is unacceptable. [00:04]
jurov FabianB, go on. [00:07]
jurov unacceptable? [00:07]
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* smickles (~smickles@mostofmany.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:07]
thestringpuller lets go falcons [00:07]
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thestringpuller jurov doesn't unit test [00:08]
thestringpuller don't trust his code [00:08]
thestringpuller kakobrekla: accept my bet [00:09]
FabianB jurov: didn't know you already forwarded it to mpex [00:09]
jurov thestringpusher, why do you think? [00:09]
mircea_popescu jurov wordplay hehe [00:09]
thestringpuller I like that [00:10]
thestringpuller thestringpuhser [00:10]
thestringpuller thestringpusher* [00:10]
thestringpuller when I have money to hire a sock puppet that is what he/she'll be called [00:11]
jurov i do unit test. just left some unlikely scenarios for later, cause i'm lazy. [00:11]
thestringpuller nigga puh-lease [00:11]
jurov now they become more and more likely [00:11]
mircea_popescu whoa fdp got like 10% [00:11]
FabianB mircea_popescu: yeah, no-one expected that [00:12]
mircea_popescu srsly. [00:12]
mircea_popescu cdu getting butchered was kinda in the books [00:13]
mircea_popescu and the pirates did jack shit huh [00:13]
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kakobrekla thestringpuller i dont approve bets. [00:14]
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FabianB pirates seem to have high volatility in elections [00:20]
mircea_popescu 0 seats tho, i don't imagine they expected that. [00:22]
FabianB so http://bitbet.us/bet/36/liberals-fdp-5-in-lower-saxony-state/ can be resolved [00:25]
mircea_popescu indeed. [00:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 178 @ 0.00062068 = 0.1105 BTC [+] [00:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00062084 = 1.2417 BTC [+] [00:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00062385 = 1.4349 BTC [+] [00:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7368 @ 0.0006246 = 4.6021 BTC [+] [00:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2854 @ 0.00062622 = 1.7872 BTC [+] [00:31]
markedathome an alleged avalon asic image https://www.devda.ch/node/12 [00:32]
mircea_popescu ya was here earlier [00:32]
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thestringpuller 6 [00:34]
* B0g4r7 (natty@247.sub-75-197-126.myvzw.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:35]
thestringpuller ;;google falcons score [00:35]
gribble Atlanta Falcons Football Clubhouse - ESPN: ; Atlanta Falcons on Yahoo! Sports - News, Scores, Standings ...: ; Official Website of the Atlanta Falcons Football Club: [00:35]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P140T] 563 @ 0.018824 = 10.5979 BTC [+] [00:35]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P150T] 1000 @ 0.03626506 = 36.2651 BTC [-] [00:35]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P160T] 1000 @ 0.06205928 = 62.0593 BTC [-] [00:36]
Anduck markedathome: source? [00:36]
thestringpuller boom [00:36]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P180T] 1000 @ 0.14987357 = 149.8736 BTC [-] [00:36]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P170T] 1000 @ 0.09597135 = 95.9714 BTC [-] [00:36]
thestringpuller mpoe dumped an put into options [00:36]
thestringpuller mwahahahahah [00:36]
thestringpuller i iz wizard [00:36]
mircea_popescu these look like sales [00:37]
thestringpuller to the bot no? [00:37]
mircea_popescu ya [00:37]
markedathome Anduck: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/16xyv6/first_avalon_asic_picture/ [00:38]
Anduck ok ty [00:38]
thestringpuller ya someone is writing contracts to the bot from inventory the dumped from mpoe [00:38]
thestringpuller it's brilliant really [00:38]
thestringpuller my how I love MPEX, it was like yesterday you were just a baby [00:38]
mircea_popescu o i c [00:39]
thestringpuller a e i? [00:40]
thestringpuller y? [00:40]
mircea_popescu oh i see [00:40]
thestringpuller do you really? [00:40]
thestringpuller or are you actually blind? [00:40]
* Tritonio (~Tritonio@62.1.245.248.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:41]
mircea_popescu http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/135872157621.jpg [00:41]
thestringpuller people must like posting themselves naked on your blog [00:41]
thestringpuller haha [00:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6286 @ 0.00062622 = 3.9364 BTC [+] [00:42]
thestringpuller the price go back up though because so many people want to buy [00:43]
* smickles (~smickles@mostofmany.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:44]
smickles < thestringpuller> smickles is havin' internets trouble << more like bitvps is [00:45]
jurov thestringpuller, not yet. the mpoe order book still looks scary [00:45]
Anduck that pic is not taken off avalon miner [00:46]
Anduck fyi [00:46]
Anduck smickles [00:46]
Anduck got my pm? [00:46]
smickles yes, just saw it [00:46]
mircea_popescu Anduck i called fake first! [00:46]
Anduck aww [00:47]
Anduck didnt see [00:47]
Anduck but its fake. [00:47]
* smickles has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [00:47]
Anduck you're right [00:47]
mircea_popescu Jan 20 22:21:50 looks fake to me [00:47]
mircea_popescu Jan 20 22:21:50 push them to smickles [00:47]
mircea_popescu Jan 20 22:22:01 i can see because of some pixels [00:47]
* jurov has just bet "No" about that [00:47]
* smickles_ (446a14e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.106.20.231) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:47]
jurov nice odds: http://bitbet.us/bet/34/ [00:48]
mircea_popescu ;;later bugpowder what did you want to ask about margin ? i missed it at the time, luckily someone mentioned avalon fake pic and i had to dig through logs. [00:49]
gribble Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "bugpowder" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin. [00:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25600 @ 0.00062622 = 16.0312 BTC [+] [00:49]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell bugpowder what did you want to ask about margin ? i missed it at the time, luckily someone mentioned avalon fake pic and i had to dig through logs. [00:49]
gribble The operation succeeded. [00:49]
mircea_popescu omfg. [00:49]
mircea_popescu jurov lol it went from .25 to 4 today [00:49]
* smickles (~smickles@mostofmany.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:49]
mircea_popescu http://bitbet.us/bet/147/mtgox-out-of-business-by-end-of-year/ [00:50]
mircea_popescu you'd think people give it better chances of survival than 2 out of 3 ? [00:50]
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jurov don't you plan assbot or gribble bbet plugin? [00:51]
mircea_popescu not a bad idea. [00:51]
jurov !bet "Milos Zeman" [00:51]
assbot nah. [00:52]
assbot no clue [00:52]
mircea_popescu lmao [00:52]
jurov (Y) [00:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00062622 = 15.0919 BTC [+] [00:52]
assbot what do you want anyway, search? [00:52]
mircea_popescu both search and ticker. [00:53]
mircea_popescu tho it could be in a #bitbet chan [00:53]
assbot ill see what i can do [00:54]
assbot I don't know those people, and they don't look very friendly. [00:54]
* smickles (~smickles@mostofmany.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:54]
smickles_ there I am again [00:54]
jurov !sudo make bitbet interface [00:54]
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smickles_ anyone wanna bet if I last more than 2 min. this time? [00:55]
smickles_ fuck [00:55]
jcpham i imagine a mtgox "out of business" would mostly be a united states vs. mtgox thing [00:55]
thestringpuller I bet 4 minutes [00:55]
thestringpuller why hasn't my MPOE bet gone in yet [00:55]
thestringpuller !ticker bring me kakobrekla [00:55]
smickles_ thestringpuller: notice I didn't even finish that line b/f it dropped [00:55]
assbot You know, I've had it up to here with this Indian malarkey. [00:55]
kakobrekla sup [00:56]
thestringpuller that's racist [00:56]
thestringpuller approve my bet yo so I can throw down mad btc [00:56]
smickles_ racist? more like country-ist [00:56]
thestringpuller pop rubberbands and shit [00:56]
kakobrekla bug mircea_popescu [00:56]
jcpham smickles which datacenter is that vps in [00:56]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu is always "busy" [00:56]
kakobrekla ya well [00:56]
kakobrekla not much i can do bout that [00:57]
thestringpuller i see how it is kakobrekla [00:57]
kakobrekla how is it? [00:57]
smickles_ jcpham: the californian one [00:57]
thestringpuller it's because I'm black [00:57]
thestringpuller you racist [00:57]
thestringpuller lol [00:57]
kakobrekla i thoght you were Indian [00:57]
jcpham switzerland doesn't seem to have that problem fwiw [00:58]
kakobrekla no but srsly thestringpuller it has nothing to do with you [00:58]
kakobrekla thestringpuller, i just dont approve or resolve bets so i dont get in a way of person that does that [00:58]
jurov already contacted them? go to #bitvps [00:59]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 650 @ 0.00515772 = 3.3525 BTC [-] [00:59]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller what's your hurry, not like it hits 100 today. [01:00]
thestringpuller I just like pretending to be the impatient 12 year old [01:00]
thestringpuller "ARE WE THERE YET? ARE WE THERE YET?" [01:01]
mircea_popescu you're prolly the only one [01:01]
thestringpuller Don't lose you childhood spirit! [01:01]
thestringpuller Welcome to the world of Imaginaaation. [01:01]
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* jurov gives thestringpuller a lollipop [01:02]
thestringpuller yaaaaaaay [01:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 52 @ 0.00522625 = 0.2718 BTC [+] [01:05]
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thestringpuller !ticker S.BBET [01:12]
assbot I prepared your canoe with cedar boughs. [01:12]
thestringpuller !ticker m S.BBET [01:12]
assbot [MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0.00100008 / 0.00100596 / 0.00129998 (10200 shares, 10.26 BTC), 7D: 0.00100007 / 0.00154533 / 0.0018 (260946 shares, 403.25 BTC), 30D: 0.000337 / 0.00078306 / 0.0035 (2257312 shares, 1,767.63 BTC) [01:12]
thestringpuller sell yo puts [01:13]
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dub I prepared my canoe with sonar yesterday [01:26]
dub going to lay waste to some fish this arfternoon [01:27]
* TradeFortress (3a6f8f69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.58.111.143.105) has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:28]
TradeFortress hi! [01:28]
assbot hi! [01:29]
* Fiddle has quit (Quit: ~) [01:30]
smickles__ hi? [01:32]
smickles__ from assbot? [01:32]
assbot Yes smickles__, I'm smart like that. [01:34]
TradeFortress or assbot is manually controled. [01:35]
TradeFortress controlled* [01:35]
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smickles__ naw, i'ts got 'bot' in the name [01:35]
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jurov wait till it starts asking for help [01:36]
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jurov ;;rated assbot [01:39]
gribble You have not yet rated user assbot [01:39]
jurov ;;rate assbot -10 scammer [01:39]
gribble Error: For identification purposes, you must be identified via GPG to use the rating system. [01:39]
jurov nah [01:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 3250 @ 0.00525495 = 17.0786 BTC [+] [01:40]
* smickles (~smickles@mostofmany.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:40]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell assbot ass, bot! [01:40]
TradeFortress hahaha [01:40]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:40]
assbot [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 18 @ 0.339 = 6.102 BTC [+] [01:40]
jurov ;;getrating assbot [01:40]
gribble This user has not yet been rated. WARNING: Currently not authenticated. [01:41]
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mircea_popescu we need an asspot to go with the assbot [01:41]
jurov is he old enough for toilet training? [01:42]
mircea_popescu smickles is like, on dial-up. and some friendly 70yo neighbour keeps picking up the receiver. [01:42]
mircea_popescu is he old enough for toilet trading? << fify [01:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00062532 = 15.0077 BTC [-] [02:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12376 @ 0.00062149 = 7.6916 BTC [-] [02:06]
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assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 117 @ 0.0085 = 0.9945 BTC [-] [02:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00062149 = 1.4294 BTC [-] [02:13]
mircea_popescu http://xbradtc.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/may20.jpg [02:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P170T] 820 @ 0.09472763 = 77.6767 BTC [-] [02:22]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P160T] 1000 @ 0.06097484 = 60.9748 BTC [-] [02:22]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P150T] 1000 @ 0.03541299 = 35.413 BTC [-] [02:22]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [08:02]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: Bitcoin asset exchanges: http://mpex.co || https://coinbr.com || https://cryptostocks.com || https://icbit.se || https://therocktrading.com || https://assets-otc.com || https://www.havelockinvestments.com || https://bitfunder.com || https://btct.co || http://picostocks.com || list bot commands: !help || Streaming trades only: #bitcoin-assets-trades [08:02]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~T42@89-212-41-49.static.t-2.net at Mon Dec 24 19:40:09 2012 [08:02]
* [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp [08:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1815 @ 0.00062045 = 1.1261 BTC [+] [08:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8884 @ 0.00062249 = 5.5302 BTC [+] [08:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25414 @ 0.00062277 = 15.8271 BTC [+] [08:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32090 @ 0.00062388 = 20.0203 BTC [+] [08:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3190 @ 0.000625 = 1.9938 BTC [+] [08:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3643 @ 0.000625 = 2.2769 BTC [+] [08:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9311 @ 0.00062507 = 5.82 BTC [+] [08:19]
* tbcoin (~tbcoin@firewall-sistemas.idecnet.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1373 @ 0.00061743 = 0.8477 BTC [-] [08:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6831 @ 0.00061058 = 4.1709 BTC [-] [08:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2496 @ 0.00060969 = 1.5218 BTC [-] [08:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19189 @ 0.00062507 = 11.9945 BTC [+] [08:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6206 @ 0.00062622 = 3.8863 BTC [+] [08:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00062649 = 9.3974 BTC [+] [08:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00062886 = 13.2689 BTC [+] [08:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00063047 = 3.2784 BTC [+] [08:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5605 @ 0.0006312 = 3.5379 BTC [+] [08:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1600 @ 0.00525495 = 8.4079 BTC [+] [08:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6383 @ 0.00061811 = 3.9454 BTC [-] [09:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5517 @ 0.00061811 = 3.4101 BTC [-] [09:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9491 @ 0.00061522 = 5.8391 BTC [-] [09:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7320 @ 0.00060969 = 4.4629 BTC [-] [09:32]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C200T] 15 @ 0.05139051 = 0.7709 BTC [+] [09:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00060969 = 3.3228 BTC [-] [09:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00060969 = 2.4997 BTC [-] [09:52]
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* Anduck has quit (Changing host) [09:54]
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Anduck !ticker mpex s.dice [10:07]
assbot [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00481977 / 0.00513888 / 0.00525495 (42792 shares, 219.90 BTC), 7D: 0.00449034 / 0.00478954 / 0.00598999 (1891602 shares, 9,059.91 BTC), 30D: 0.0032 / 0.00414851 / 0.00598999 (9437928 shares, 39,153.42 BTC) [10:07]
* nanotube (~nanotube@unaffiliated/nanotube) has joined #bitcoin-assets [10:11]
* gribble (~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble) has joined #bitcoin-assets [10:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2506 @ 0.00060969 = 1.5279 BTC [-] [10:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00060884 = 5.0838 BTC [-] [10:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1644 @ 0.00060756 = 0.9988 BTC [-] [10:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12756 @ 0.00060756 = 7.75 BTC [-] [10:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4409 @ 0.00060731 = 2.6776 BTC [-] [10:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12423 @ 0.00060731 = 7.5446 BTC [-] [10:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2827 @ 0.00060336 = 1.7057 BTC [-] [10:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4436 @ 0.00060336 = 2.6765 BTC [-] [10:48]
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assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.405 = 0.81 BTC [-] [11:00]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 5 @ 0.4 = 2 BTC [-] [11:00]
* da2ce7_d is now known as da2ce7 [11:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10787 @ 0.00060336 = 6.5084 BTC [-] [11:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00060287 = 1.688 BTC [-] [11:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41300 @ 0.0006017 = 24.8502 BTC [-] [11:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10263 @ 0.00060168 = 6.175 BTC [-] [11:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 300 @ 0.00518427 = 1.5553 BTC [-] [11:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2116 @ 0.00525495 = 11.1195 BTC [+] [11:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00061091 = 3.696 BTC [+] [11:21]
* darkee (~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6792 @ 0.00061091 = 4.1493 BTC [+] [11:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11708 @ 0.00061091 = 7.1525 BTC [+] [11:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5192 @ 0.00061096 = 3.1721 BTC [+] [11:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1661 @ 0.00060168 = 0.9994 BTC [-] [11:32]
* YohhophoyohhO (~Yohhophoy@uno.unogood-ltd.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3846 @ 0.00060168 = 2.3141 BTC [-] [11:38]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 0.999 BTC [+] [11:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1500 @ 0.00060344 = 0.9052 BTC [+] [11:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00060344 = 9.293 BTC [+] [11:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 475 @ 0.00060168 = 0.2858 BTC [-] [11:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00060146 = 4.962 BTC [-] [11:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7975 @ 0.00060122 = 4.7947 BTC [-] [11:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00060123 = 5.5914 BTC [+] [12:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 250 @ 0.00060123 = 0.1503 BTC [+] [12:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8397 @ 0.00060122 = 5.0484 BTC [-] [12:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00060262 = 9.6419 BTC [+] [12:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5079 @ 0.00060122 = 3.0536 BTC [-] [12:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 432 @ 0.0053219 = 2.2991 BTC [+] [12:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00060122 = 4.8699 BTC [-] [12:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00060123 = 9.0185 BTC [+] [13:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1250 @ 0.00060122 = 0.7515 BTC [-] [13:02]
* jok (~jok@spb.yhub.ru) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00060262 = 4.3991 BTC [+] [13:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00060262 = 2.8323 BTC [+] [13:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00060344 = 5.0689 BTC [+] [13:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3579 @ 0.00060893 = 2.1794 BTC [+] [13:25]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1500 @ 0.00530239 = 7.9536 BTC [-] [13:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 247 @ 0.00530238 = 1.3097 BTC [-] [13:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 309 @ 0.00525 = 1.6223 BTC [-] [13:29]
kakobrekla Infiniti Poker Set to Go Live in February: Will Use Bitcoins for Americans [13:41]
kakobrekla “Because we’re using Bitcoin, we’re not using U.S. banks—it’s all peer-to-peer,” Hajduk told BusinessWeek.com in regard to fears over potentially breaking current US laws. “I don’t believe we’ll be doing anything wrong. [13:41]
kakobrekla http://www.gambling911.com/poker/infiniti-poker-set-go-live-february-will-use-bitcoins-americans-012013.html [13:41]
kakobrekla bye micon? [13:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 578 @ 0.00060122 = 0.3475 BTC [-] [13:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14222 @ 0.0006011 = 8.5488 BTC [-] [13:41]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 6 @ 0.0055 = 0.033 BTC [-] [13:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 420 @ 0.00525 = 2.205 BTC [-] [13:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 852 @ 0.00524149 = 4.4657 BTC [-] [13:53]
jurov thestringpuller, sry i usually don't respond to summons at 04:29 CET [13:58]
jurov ;;ticker [13:59]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 16.40637, Best ask: 16.53418, Bid-ask spread: 0.12781, Last trade: 16.39526, 24 hour volume: 36457.34278264, 24 hour low: 15.63412, 24 hour high: 16.70000, 24 hour vwap: 15.99778 [13:59]
jurov my god [13:59]
kakobrekla lol i just realized, i have a single customer that is larger than whole 1Broker [14:05]
jurov hehe yes it happens :) [14:06]
* kuzetsa (kuzetsa@yurizoku.tk) has left #bitcoin-assets [14:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24991 @ 0.00060232 = 15.0526 BTC [+] [14:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00060738 = 4.0087 BTC [+] [14:10]
* FabianB_ (~ogg@p5DE679A2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:12]
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assbot [BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 10 @ 0.72 = 7.2 BTC [-] [14:13]
* FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [14:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2809 @ 0.00060804 = 1.708 BTC [+] [14:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3306 @ 0.0006011 = 1.9872 BTC [-] [14:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00060071 = 3.9647 BTC [-] [14:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00060061 = 4.3244 BTC [-] [14:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5435 @ 0.00060008 = 3.2614 BTC [-] [14:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11015 @ 0.00060008 = 6.6099 BTC [-] [14:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8685 @ 0.0006 = 5.211 BTC [-] [14:22]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.57 = 1.14 BTC [+] [14:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.0006 = 12.45 BTC [-] [14:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 884 @ 0.0053 = 4.6852 BTC [+] [14:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00060893 = 4.7497 BTC [+] [14:41]
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* darkee (~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee) has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:52]
kakobrekla down [14:59]
kakobrekla ;;ticker [14:59]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 16.10000, Best ask: 16.10997, Bid-ask spread: 0.00997, Last trade: 16.10000, 24 hour volume: 44684.00628135, 24 hour low: 15.63412, 24 hour high: 16.70000, 24 hour vwap: 16.08003 [14:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00060419 = 4.2293 BTC [-] [15:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3135 @ 0.00060223 = 1.888 BTC [-] [15:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11244 @ 0.0006 = 6.7464 BTC [-] [15:11]
* Schadenfreude has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [15:14]
Anduck !ticker mpex s.dice [15:15]
assbot [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.004901 / 0.00517549 / 0.0053219 (39777 shares, 205.87 BTC), 7D: 0.00449034 / 0.00479683 / 0.00598999 (1839870 shares, 8,825.55 BTC), 30D: 0.0032 / 0.00414935 / 0.00598999 (9444988 shares, 39,190.63 BTC) [15:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24150 @ 0.0006 = 14.49 BTC [-] [15:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15490 @ 0.00060419 = 9.3589 BTC [+] [15:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.0006 = 11.28 BTC [-] [15:20]
* Schadenfreude (~m@77.116.246.82.wireless.dyn.drei.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:33]
* Bugpowder (47ab6a02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.171.106.2) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:51]
Bugpowder HEEEYO [15:52]
Bugpowder ;;ticker [15:53]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 16.36843, Best ask: 16.45598, Bid-ask spread: 0.08755, Last trade: 16.45598, 24 hour volume: 46012.49478065, 24 hour low: 15.63412, 24 hour high: 16.70000, 24 hour vwap: 16.09633 [15:53]
* rdponticelli (~rdpontice@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:00]
* Fiddle (~Fiddle@dslb-188-101-239-062.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1650 @ 0.0052699 = 8.6953 BTC [-] [16:09]
Bugpowder BIDWALL @ 16.50 [16:10]
Bugpowder ;;ticker [16:11]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 16.49001, Best ask: 16.49100, Bid-ask spread: 0.00099, Last trade: 16.49000, 24 hour volume: 46183.98018035, 24 hour low: 15.63412, 24 hour high: 16.70000, 24 hour vwap: 16.09854 [16:11]
Bugpowder ;;bids 16.45 [16:11]
gribble There are currently 0 bitcoins demanded at or over 16.45 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. [16:11]
FabianB_ woah, where are we heading? [16:25]
Bugpowder ;;ticker [16:29]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 16.56000, Best ask: 16.60000, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 16.60000, 24 hour volume: 46667.37538040, 24 hour low: 15.63412, 24 hour high: 16.70000, 24 hour vwap: 16.10462 [16:29]
* JWU_42 (3281faba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.129.250.186) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:30]
Bugpowder Maybe 18.50 by friday? [16:31]
Bugpowder If it can break thru 17... game over man [16:34]
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JWU_42 kinda scary right now [16:42]
JWU_42 ;) [16:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 69 @ 0.0052699 = 0.3636 BTC [-] [16:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 310 @ 0.00524149 = 1.6249 BTC [-] [16:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2600 @ 0.00523251 = 13.6045 BTC [-] [16:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 221 @ 0.00521186 = 1.1518 BTC [-] [16:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1435 @ 0.00060419 = 0.867 BTC [+] [16:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37533 @ 0.00060893 = 22.855 BTC [+] [16:47]
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assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.39 BTC [-] [17:01]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.3508 BTC [-] [17:01]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 10 @ 0.3501 = 3.501 BTC [-] [17:01]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.3301 = 0.9903 BTC [-] [17:01]
* JWU_42 (3281faba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.129.250.186) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:02]
* Bugpowder (cef100f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.241.0.249) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 1270 @ 0.0013 = 1.651 BTC [+] [17:06]
* gigavps (~gigavps@rrcs-97-79-110-50.se.biz.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:08]
* lautaro (~chippewa_@216-171-201-141.dpe.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:08]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9850 @ 0.00060298 = 5.9394 BTC [-] [17:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 200 @ 0.00060142 = 0.1203 BTC [-] [17:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4850 @ 0.00060142 = 2.9169 BTC [-] [17:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14867 @ 0.0006 = 8.9202 BTC [-] [17:16]
* Bugpowder (cef100f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.241.0.249) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2129 @ 0.00521186 = 11.096 BTC [-] [17:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 867 @ 0.00520934 = 4.5165 BTC [-] [17:17]
* rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [17:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00060472 = 5.3215 BTC [+] [17:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1504 @ 0.0006 = 0.9024 BTC [-] [17:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3595 @ 0.00059978 = 2.1562 BTC [-] [17:25]
* rdponticelli (~rdpontice@gateway/tor-sasl/rdponticelli) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1565 @ 0.00059978 = 0.9387 BTC [-] [17:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 116 @ 0.0053 = 0.6148 BTC [+] [17:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 93 @ 0.0053219 = 0.4949 BTC [+] [17:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1991 @ 0.00533151 = 10.615 BTC [+] [17:41]
* Korbman (ada62aad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.166.42.173) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00059978 = 3.6287 BTC [-] [17:44]
Korbman ;;ticker [17:46]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 16.73735, Best ask: 16.84332, Bid-ask spread: 0.10597, Last trade: 16.73533, 24 hour volume: 52756.17100206, 24 hour low: 15.63412, 24 hour high: 16.98000, 24 hour vwap: 16.18763 [17:46]
Korbman Wait..what? I looked just the other day and it was $15.70...now you're trying to tell me we're reaching $17? [17:46]
Anduck 16.73 atm [17:48]
assbot [BTCTC] [GOLD] 1 @ 1.05 BTC [-] [17:48]
* terryww has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [17:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16188 @ 0.00060893 = 9.8574 BTC [+] [17:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 408 @ 0.00061096 = 0.2493 BTC [+] [17:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6672 @ 0.00061217 = 4.0844 BTC [+] [17:51]
Bugpowder ;;ticker [17:58]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 16.78819, Best ask: 16.94860, Bid-ask spread: 0.16041, Last trade: 16.94859, 24 hour volume: 53194.02273291, 24 hour low: 15.63412, 24 hour high: 16.98000, 24 hour vwap: 16.19784 [17:58]
Bugpowder I doubt we break thru 17. Asks are evaporating now [17:58]
Bugpowder err [17:58]
Bugpowder bids [17:58]
* rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [18:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6238 @ 0.00059978 = 3.7414 BTC [-] [18:00]
Korbman I didn't think we'd get this high to begin with (at least not as quickly)...so it doesn't surprise me the bids are slowing down [18:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1363 @ 0.00520934 = 7.1003 BTC [-] [18:02]
Bugpowder well some of the bids got impatient, and just went for the ask instead [18:02]
* Gladamas (~Gladamas@dyn.170-56-7-31.swissinet.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:02]
Bugpowder Still tons of support at 15.60 and 16.10 [18:02]
Bugpowder If t17 goes... its a free for all [18:03]
Bugpowder The MPOE market bot is undervaluing the calls right now too... 70 cent difference between vwap and current [18:03]
assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 81 @ 0.0085 = 0.6885 BTC [-] [18:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 993 @ 0.00517224 = 5.136 BTC [-] [18:11]
assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 145 @ 0.0089 = 1.2905 BTC [+] [18:11]
* Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-89-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:15]
JWU_42 Bugpowder: agreed [18:18]
JWU_42 walls are forming at 17 [18:18]
JWU_42 and not much to take us back to 16.50 [18:18]
JWU_42 or even 16 [18:19]
Bugpowder I think we are safely above 16.10 [18:19]
Bugpowder But my C160Ts really want us to be at 18. [18:20]
* Chilca has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [18:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00059978 = 7.5272 BTC [-] [18:28]
* Anduck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [18:29]
* beetlebee (567df46c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.125.244.108) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:29]
jurov but why s.mpoe shareholders had to chose this time to cash out [18:29]
* Anduck (~Anduck@unaffiliated/anduck) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 244 @ 0.00517224 = 1.262 BTC [-] [18:32]
Bugpowder cause MPOE is gonna have a bad week if the price keeps going up (I guess) [18:32]
jcpham looks like it will not stop any time soon [18:33]
jcpham the bulls want to break every piece of china in the shop. [18:33]
* Schadenfreude has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [18:38]
Korbman ha, seems so [18:41]
assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 10 @ 0.1432 = 1.432 BTC [-] [18:41]
jurov if it goes only up, it won't be such a bit problem, maybe bonds pay only a half of MPBOR [18:42]
mircea_popescu so whats new [18:43]
jurov but if it decides to swing to, say, 13, now that would be a problem [18:43]
jurov mircea, bitcoinica is shipping [18:44]
jurov ..er...mixed that up :/ [18:44]
mircea_popescu lmao [18:44]
mircea_popescu shipping what ? [18:44]
mircea_popescu ;;ticker [18:45]
gribble BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 16.75000, Best ask: 16.77669, Bid-ask spread: 0.02669, Last trade: 16.75000, 24 hour volume: 54418.34696679, 24 hour low: 15.63412, 24 hour high: 16.98000, 24 hour vwap: 16.21918 [18:45]
mircea_popescu whoa nelly [18:45]
* Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-89-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:46]
jcpham avalon [18:47]
jcpham 2 units shipped over the weekend: one to jgarzik, one to bitcoin foundation [18:48]
mircea_popescu o, they really shipped ? linx ? [18:48]
jcpham i assume 300 more to random miners [18:48]
mircea_popescu yaya , but did either confirm ? [18:48]
jcpham not yet to my knowlege [18:48]
mircea_popescu well that'sd where it was friday :p [18:48]
mircea_popescu btw, you people about ready to enter your ruling ? [18:48]
jcpham pigeons [18:49]
jcpham rassah [18:49]
jcpham i think i deserve the 140BTC or so [18:49]
jcpham i've been thinking on it [18:49]
mircea_popescu lol [18:49]
jcpham i only need to convince one other judge of the same [18:50]
mircea_popescu https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100909.msg1467772#msg1467772 [18:50]
mircea_popescu his meds are not work :( [18:50]
* EskimoBob_afk is now known as EskimoBob [18:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.4 = 1.2 BTC [+] [18:53]
jcpham http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/case-i-wences-vs-mpex-breach-of-fiduciary-duty/ [18:54]
mircea_popescu R Company Sales/mth $ Profit/yr BTC Profit/yr Industry link [18:54]
mircea_popescu 1 MtGox $ 14M $ 3.2M 200k Exchange - [18:54]
mircea_popescu dude srsly ?! mtgox clears 200k btc a year ? [18:54]
jcpham EskimoBob go fuck yourself that was a joke [18:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00060007 = 3.8705 BTC [+] [18:54]
jcpham mircea_popescu in the last post it looks like the signature line is cut off: [18:55]
assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 10 @ 0.1432 = 1.432 BTC [-] [18:55]
jcpham line starts like: HBNlxhUDnEKbMl1p082ergE+ekRZINRmr12/DpZQy0sODhxGTE40HukSnPL+mQDDy8yg+bjQb [18:55]
jcpham but that's all i get [18:55]
mircea_popescu Signature: HBNlxhUDnEKbMl1p082ergE+ekRZINRmr12/DpZQy0sODhxGTE40HukSnPL+mQDDy8yg+bjQblA+NsJeI3XyoEs= [18:55]
mircea_popescu is what i see [18:55]
jcpham I believe I need to verify that. thanks [18:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17867 @ 0.00060823 = 10.8672 BTC [+] [18:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00060823 = 1.6422 BTC [+] [18:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00060823 = 2.6154 BTC [+] [19:00]
* terryww (~terryww@84-255-240-24.static.t-2.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:00]
* Namworld (~Namworld@modemcable075.132-23-96.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00060558 = 1.1809 BTC [-] [19:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22552 @ 0.00059978 = 13.5262 BTC [-] [19:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3498 @ 0.00059924 = 2.0961 BTC [-] [19:04]
* Chilca has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:17]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P160T] 777 @ 0.04160326 = 32.3257 BTC [-] [19:19]
* Gladamas has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00059924 = 8.689 BTC [-] [19:21]
pigeons EskimoBob: i nominated jcpham because he would be less likely to be viewed as a sock puppet than kako who is a business partner of mp and i know smickles has done deals with him too [19:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6152 @ 0.00059924 = 3.6865 BTC [-] [19:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27628 @ 0.00059908 = 16.5514 BTC [-] [19:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00059845 = 11.3107 BTC [-] [19:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10670 @ 0.0005984 = 6.3849 BTC [-] [19:27]
pigeons EskimoBob: and jcpham is talking about convincing one other judge to rule against MP, which doesnt seem to need any convincing anytwasy [19:27]
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mircea_popescu omgwhat conspiraci si this ?! [19:28]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 10 @ 0.0055 = 0.055 BTC [-] [19:28]
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assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 1 @ 0.1432 BTC [-] [19:29]
jcpham mircea_popescu the rota has decided to rip you off [19:31]
jcpham i hope you are happy :) [19:31]
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Bugpowder I estimate Mtgox only makes 100,000 BTC /year [19:31]
mircea_popescu i call shenanigans [19:31]
jcpham lol [19:31]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder iirc they made a loss in 2010 [19:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 756 @ 0.0052 = 3.9312 BTC [+] [19:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 244 @ 0.00516178 = 1.2595 BTC [-] [19:31]
Bugpowder that was a long time ago [19:31]
mircea_popescu and their 2011 report showed a modest recovery [19:31]
mircea_popescu but still overal in the hole. [19:31]
Bugpowder 1M coins a month [19:31]
Bugpowder traded [19:32]
Bugpowder 0.6-1.2% fee [19:32]
Bugpowder per trade [19:32]
Bugpowder so 100k bitcoins in revenue [19:32]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder i just go by the reports they publish [19:32]
mircea_popescu you saw those ? [19:32]
Bugpowder nop [19:32]
mircea_popescu lemme dig up [19:32]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.0005984 = 7.121 BTC [-] [19:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122 @ 0.00060823 = 0.0742 BTC [+] [19:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8667 @ 0.00061217 = 5.3057 BTC [+] [19:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3388 @ 0.00061302 = 2.0769 BTC [+] [19:37]
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mircea_popescu Bugpowder https://mtgox.com/img/pdf/20120201/Transparency_Jan.pdf 2011 one [19:37]
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jcpham mircea_popescu does payment for the rota come from the fees paid by the claimant and defendant (you) [19:38]
jcpham or was this the intention or not [19:38]
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jcpham we are unsure if we should we should pay ourselves from the fees [19:38]
mircea_popescu jcpham each party pays 10 btc, for a total of 20. [19:39]
jcpham which might seem greedy but i'll ask it [19:39]
mircea_popescu the prevailing party gets up to 10 btc back (depending what % of their claim is granted) [19:39]
jcpham are we to judge our own dsalary is my question [19:39]
mircea_popescu the losing party gets nothing. the judges get 3 btc each. [19:39]
Bugpowder How much of their $50,000 / month operating costs is salaries to the owner [19:39]
Bugpowder ? [19:39]
mircea_popescu nah, the judges get the salary no matter what. [19:39]
jcpham i see [19:39]
jcpham ok understood [19:39]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder nothing afaik. [19:39]
Bugpowder They say their server costs are $5,000 / mo [19:40]
Bugpowder where is the other $45k / mo going? [19:40]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder they have something like 5 employees [19:40]
mircea_popescu in japan this costs a little bit of money [19:40]
mircea_popescu they have a 3 room office [19:40]
Bugpowder yeah [19:41]
Bugpowder salaries [19:41]
mircea_popescu in a not so great part of town, but anyway [19:41]
mircea_popescu japan is expensive throughout [19:41]
Bugpowder Also its 50k btc + $350k [19:41]
Bugpowder revenue [19:41]
mircea_popescu they also took angel funding in 2010ish [19:41]
Bugpowder yeah but that is equity [19:42]
Bugpowder They pay out the revenue to employee salary most likely [19:42]
Bugpowder CEO makes 100-150k [19:42]
Bugpowder $ [19:42]
Bugpowder guessing [19:42]
mircea_popescu you know how cosanguine these things get [19:42]
mircea_popescu angel gets employed etc [19:42]
Bugpowder Angel should not have more than 20% equity [19:42]
Bugpowder we don't know the terms of course [19:43]
mircea_popescu they were never released, no. [19:43]
mircea_popescu are you up to speed with their op history atall ? [19:43]
Bugpowder I started paying attention to btc when it hit $7 the first time [19:44]
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Bugpowder I know about the hack and crash [19:44]
Bugpowder but not much else [19:45]
Bugpowder Only had a gox account for about a year [19:45]
Bugpowder maybe 18 months [19:46]
Bugpowder i don't remember [19:46]
Bugpowder 1 year [19:47]
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mircea_popescu well anyway, originalyl site started by some guy in the us [19:50]
mircea_popescu who then got cold feet and wanted out [19:50]
Bugpowder yeah [19:50]
mircea_popescu gave the site away practically to the current team [19:50]
mircea_popescu then hacked into it and stole some moneyz lol [19:51]
Bugpowder oops [19:51]
mircea_popescu (that was the "auditor" ) [19:51]
Bugpowder den of thieves, bitcoin is. [19:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 98 @ 0.0089 = 0.8722 BTC [+] [19:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6265 @ 0.00060205 = 3.7718 BTC [-] [19:53]
mircea_popescu kinda primitive relationships, at least historically. [19:54]
assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 14 @ 0.009 = 0.126 BTC [+] [19:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5685 @ 0.0005984 = 3.4019 BTC [-] [19:59]
jurov_ mircea_popescu, primitive as opposed to what ? [19:59]
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jurov_ to the wannabe Rule Of Law irl? [20:00]
* jurov_ is now known as jurov [20:00]
mircea_popescu jurov_ relationships based on tribal structures rather than flow of capital, law and ownership [20:00]
jurov and how would that happen? as long as majority of players are anonymous, there is no real incentive to follow the law [20:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.0005984 = 13.464 BTC [-] [20:03]
Bugpowder BURNING MAN [20:04]
jurov i tried to reconcile that when i thought about the gpg story, but no. people just are dishonorable thieves when they can. [20:04]
mircea_popescu eh, i doubt that. [20:06]
mircea_popescu for most of history people could be dishonorable thieves and mostly were not. [20:06]
mircea_popescu i think this is a convenient statal lie, to justify the historically incredible levels of taxation. [20:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1017 @ 0.00060205 = 0.6123 BTC [+] [20:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8217 @ 0.00060947 = 5.008 BTC [+] [20:07]
jurov then why the first reaction to state failure is often looting? [20:07]
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jurov don't know if it's true but i heard in romania even central heating equipment was stolen in some places [20:08]
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jurov when communist regime fell [20:08]
mircea_popescu for the same reason takling away the prop of a tree leads to tree colapsing [20:08]
mircea_popescu this doesn't prove trees can't grow on their own trunks [20:09]
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mircea_popescu it just proves propping them is a bad idea. [20:09]
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jurov i don't see how the argument relates.. it was not like something completely vital was removed during the '89 revolution [20:12]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 600 @ 0.00533727 = 3.2024 BTC [+] [20:13]
mircea_popescu something completely vital was removed for the red decades [20:13]
mircea_popescu replaced with a stupid barely functional ersatz [20:14]
mircea_popescu once the ersatz collapsed the impression was that there's something missing. [20:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7667 @ 0.00060947 = 4.6728 BTC [+] [20:17]
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jurov lol, show me any significant group of people that can exist outside of state without "impression that there's something missing" [20:22]
mircea_popescu ever been in a mining colony ? [20:23]
assbot [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 4 @ 0.34 = 1.36 BTC [+] [20:24]
jurov no, why? [20:24]
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mircea_popescu well cause it'd be a ready example. [20:24]
mircea_popescu any small village works, too. [20:24]
jurov yes, provided there are no armed groups roaming the landscape [20:25]
jurov last 60 years in europe are an exception in this regard [20:26]
mircea_popescu how about the old west ? [20:26]
jurov what is old west? [20:26]
jurov you mean in america? [20:28]
mircea_popescu yea [20:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2150 @ 0.0005984 = 1.2866 BTC [-] [20:30]
jurov good example. it mostly appeared to work cause there was no competition for food/land... [20:33]
jurov but maybe at expense to slaves/natives [20:33]
jurov i don't know 'merica history, dunno how many people were actually violently killed there [20:34]
Korbman millions [20:34]
jurov just got the feeling that ability to call 911 was welcomed even there [20:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00059841 = 3.5905 BTC [+] [20:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15650 @ 0.0005984 = 9.365 BTC [-] [20:34]
pigeons 911 is a joke in you town [20:36]
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mircea_popescu no competition for food/land ?! [20:37]
mircea_popescu my very dear boy! [20:37]
mircea_popescu the us was built on competition for food and land. [20:38]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.53 BTC [-] [20:38]
mircea_popescu what do you think made barbed wire such a commercial success [20:38]
jurov barbed wire? used in american old west? you lost me again [20:38]
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dub missed the start of this conversation [20:40]
dub but the problem with humans is we are naturally peices of shit [20:40]
jurov i'd say yurp built on competition for food and land... when it got unbearable, everyone went to us since it was supposedly much better there [20:40]
dub once you put enough of us in close proximity we will rob rape and kill each other [20:40]
jcpham especially if food is in short supply [20:41]
dub which means you need some policing which implies a state [20:41]
dub even when its not [20:41]
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jcpham if you force me to live in close proximity with people [20:41]
jcpham i would probably attempt to dominate my peers or control them [20:42]
jcpham C cup and larger against that wall [20:42]
jcpham strong men over here against this wall [20:42]
dub well, _you_ would because of your conditioning, that success must be at teh expense of your peers [20:42]
jcpham yes i am a shit [20:43]
jcpham i admit it [20:43]
jcpham everyone would be a resource for me to assign [20:43]
dub even without our existing societal fuck up, humans cannot coexist en masse [20:43]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.3999 BTC [-] [20:44]
mircea_popescu jcpham the dispute of cattle vs farm was settled by barbed wire [20:45]
mircea_popescu more efficient than the other party's weaponry. [20:45]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 4 @ 0.4 = 1.6 BTC [+] [20:45]
jcpham the 'ol fence trick, eh? [20:45]
jcpham round 'em up and stick them in a fence? [20:45]
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assbot [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.34 = 0.68 BTC [+] [20:47]
jurov anyway, i think when i'd pick random person that lived 60 to 6000 years ago and explained about how oppressive is the modern state i currently live in [20:47]
jurov i'd get unbelieving stare, perhaps [20:47]
jurov not that it can't be improved... but removing it completely, srsly? [20:49]
mircea_popescu sure. [20:49]
jcpham removing a lot of these societal structures implies a lot of death [20:50]
pigeons well, at least whining [20:50]
jcpham not whining! [20:50]
mircea_popescu listen, killing someione is not the trivial matter it appears to be in video games. [20:50]
mircea_popescu even if given free reign to kill anyone at any time most people couldn't be arsed. [20:51]
jurov lol, maybe he'd agree that inability to treat wives as property is kinda oppressing :DDD [20:51]
assbot [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C140T] 5 @ 0.15725077 = 0.7863 BTC [+] [20:51]
jcpham i mean death as in people who cannot provide for themselves [20:51]
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jcpham without society and technology [20:51]
jcpham and who will surely waste away or be overtaken by others [20:52]
mircea_popescu or learn to suck cock, and do it well. [20:52]
jcpham yikes [20:52]
jcpham true story though [20:52]
mircea_popescu there's nothing wrong with giving good head. [20:52]
pigeons well, or else people who want to help "people who cannot provide for themselves" won't have GovCo in the way and can help them [20:52]
jcpham if we all were required to produce something to be usefull, many of us might be in trouble [20:53]
jcpham assume you have an alotment of fresh air [20:53]
jcpham that costs some personal production [20:53]
jcpham you want to breathe, contribute. [20:53]
jcpham i'm telling you fresh water futures and clean air [20:54]
jcpham someone will mop up one day [20:54]
pigeons first we need to get rid of that meddling lorax [20:54]
mircea_popescu jcpham i doubt mpoe-pr would have much trouble. [20:54]
jurov jcpham, funnily enough that was a communist idea that everyone must be employed and producing [20:54]
jcpham i somewhat agree with it [20:55]
dub the hilarious thing about libertarians and anti-state crowd [20:55]
jcpham the worls is full of producers and consumers [20:55]
jcpham consumers far far far outweigh producers [20:55]
dub is the root of it is they think that because they are a beautiful and unique snowflake they will somehow do a better job than 'the state' [20:56]
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mircea_popescu dub indeed :D [20:57]
dub when its that inherently selfish nature of humanity that is the reason we need it [20:57]
mircea_popescu after all, they're smart enough to have figured it out first! [20:57]
jcpham i agree that i am an entirely selfish human [20:57]
jcpham much more so now that i have a fmily [20:57]
dub you are human [20:57]
dub its a human trait, you don't own it you selfish bastard [20:58]
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dub :) [20:58]
mircea_popescu fuck you dub its all mine [20:58]
jcpham i am the only one [20:58]
jcpham you both are lying [20:58]
dub I AM THE ONLY SELFISH ONE< YOU WILL DIE NOW [20:58]
dub brb loading my ar15 [20:59]
jcpham how can we bet on this now? [20:59]
jcpham can we make a selfishness bet [20:59]
mircea_popescu no you can't [20:59]
mircea_popescu because i made it [20:59]
jcpham damn [20:59]
dub I have a good one, by 2050 there will be less than half as many humans as today [20:59]
dub that wil prove it nicely [20:59]
dub and if we are around to collect, well we already won so we wont need to [21:00]
mircea_popescu i will personally impregnate a billionty womenz to win this bet. [21:01]
mircea_popescu me and micon [21:01]
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iz dub: ever heard of the prisoner's dilemma? [21:02]
iz in a non-zero sum game, the "selfish" move also helps everyone else [21:03]
mircea_popescu isthat nonzero or above zero ? [21:03]
mircea_popescu omfg what bs ruling is this. [21:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1750 @ 0.0053558 = 9.3727 BTC [+] [21:04]
jcpham http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma [21:04]
jcpham ahhh philosophy 101 [21:05]
jcpham ethics even [21:05]
iz it means that hurting your opponent doesn't help you.. that's non-zero sum [21:05]
mircea_popescu jcpham pigeons i hope you realise the net result of this will simply be me putting it in the faq that i will keep all misrouted funds and fu. [21:05]
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iz games like chess or checkers, are zero sum, where hurting your opponent directly helps you [21:05]
jcpham pigeons you see that [21:05]
iz it's not above zero, below zero, or zero [21:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 2075 @ 0.0053558 = 11.1133 BTC [+] [21:06]
jcpham mircea_popescu is our judgement not "fair" [21:06]
mircea_popescu it's particularly dumb, in that it allows idiots to extract money from me now. [21:07]
mircea_popescu send 100 btc, sue, get 110 back lalala [21:07]
mircea_popescu so no, this is the last case on this topic. [21:07]
jcpham so 20 btc in "fees" [21:07]
jcpham 9 to judges leaving 11 [21:07]
jcpham fair is to split the 11btc [21:08]
jcpham or not pay the rota? [21:08]
jcpham it is confusing [21:08]
mircea_popescu myeah. [21:08]
assbot [BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 2 @ 0.5 = 1 BTC [21:08]
jcpham now you can just tell everyone the orta sucks [21:09]
jcpham we are all just scamsters [21:09]
mircea_popescu pretty mcuh lol. "too soon" [21:10]
jcpham i'd also be willing to forego payment to make the situation "correct" [21:10]
jcpham didn't seem like an avaialble option though [21:10]
mircea_popescu forego payment, what bs is that. [21:11]
mircea_popescu you don't forego payment. fucking up has costs. [21:11]
mircea_popescu you just allocated the cost of fucking up to me, and i'm not the one who fucked up. [21:11]
jcpham that's just me i'm speaking for [21:11]
mircea_popescu this is fucked up. [21:11]
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jcpham if you send me a bill for your losses i can make payments until you recover fully [21:12]
mod6 wat [21:12]
mircea_popescu lol [21:12]
* mod6 scratches head [21:12]
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mod6 this is the dumbest ruling in virtual case law [21:13]
mod6 lol [21:13]
mircea_popescu also the first. [21:13]
mircea_popescu funny how that works 0.0 [21:13]
mod6 ikr [21:13]
mircea_popescu i guess it at least proves they be independent ninnies. [21:13]
jcpham i think mre preparation or organization is required [21:14]
* jcpham feels like a failure [21:14]
mod6 you guys need to think about what you're doing [21:14]
mircea_popescu dawg, independence is this concept whereby people think autonomously [21:14]
mod6 christ on a pony [21:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.00534198 = 2.671 BTC [-] [21:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 850 @ 0.00534197 = 4.5407 BTC [-] [21:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1446 @ 0.00524041 = 7.5776 BTC [-] [21:15]
jcpham i suppose it is too late now [21:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9684 @ 0.00060947 = 5.9021 BTC [+] [21:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11366 @ 0.00060971 = 6.93 BTC [+] [21:18]
mircea_popescu it wouldn't be drama if it weren't too late. [21:18]
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jurov whatever. i was organizing international summercamp, bank asked us the fee to sort out payments with incomplete info [21:19]
jurov not them [21:19]
jurov i doubt if i'd get anything if we sued [21:19]
mircea_popescu right. cause the bank won't do the insane sort of shit i do [21:20]
mircea_popescu cause it knows better [21:20]
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mod6 what a bunch of asshats [21:21]
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jcpham fwiw i started to penalize you both equally [21:24]
mircea_popescu because why ? [21:24]
jcpham for making me work [21:24]
mircea_popescu lol [21:24]
mod6 omfg why did you ask to do this?!?!?! [21:24]
jcpham jesus told me to apply [21:24]
mod6 of course he did [21:25]
* mod6 rage [21:25]
mircea_popescu lol [21:25]
jcpham why are you upset mod6 [21:25]
mircea_popescu ima hold rota entrance exams, consisting of reciting cicero and laurian in latin [21:25]
jcpham mircea_popescu will keep the funds in the future [21:25]
jcpham so he won't even need the rota [21:25]
jcpham seems like a win-win for a few btc [21:26]
mircea_popescu ya, but i'll send all complainants to haunt you [21:26]
jcpham we figured that... [21:26]
jcpham sortof an early precednet [21:26]
jcpham hopefully I won'r be nominated anymore because i'm just insane [21:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10284 @ 0.00060971 = 6.2703 BTC [+] [21:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4766 @ 0.00061235 = 2.9185 BTC [+] [21:27]
jurov bah, "judges" nobody asked about the "mispaid/rounded orders create significant overhead"? [21:29]
mircea_popescu no cause they are from occupy movement. [21:30]
jurov like, is it so significant as to justfy keeping whole amount? [21:30]
jurov occupy? now it's clear to me. [21:31]
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jcpham occupy movement..... huh [21:32]
mircea_popescu you know, the people who hate financial instutions [21:33]
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jurov jcpham, do ask, i'm curious. maybe the overhead includes doing something interesting with the bitches [21:34]
mircea_popescu lol [21:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7785 @ 0.00060287 = 4.6933 BTC [-] [21:35]
mod6 (11:25) < mircea_popescu> ima hold rota entrance exams, consisting of reciting cicero and laurian in latin [21:36]
mod6 this is a must [21:36]
mod6 otherwise this just creates way more problems then it solves [21:36]
mod6 we can't have these dunderhead rulings being created when people have no idea what they're even doing [21:36]
mircea_popescu otherwise this just creates way more problems then it solves << i am grasped by sudden terror at the realisation of that, yes. [21:37]
mircea_popescu somehow i just never foresaw this one. [21:37]
mod6 rip it up and start again [21:37]
mircea_popescu im not doing anything today. [21:37]
mod6 im srsly irk'd by this [21:38]
mircea_popescu why lol [21:38]
mod6 the plaintiff fucked up. his funds should be returned minus fees. nothing more. [21:39]
dub who initiated the rota action? [21:39]
mod6 nothing less. this is idiotic. [21:39]
dub oh the plaintiff [21:39]
pigeons yeah i wanted punititve damages against mircea_popescu for wasting our time, using the rota as a promotion, and forcing customers to sue him just to get typical service [21:39]
dub is the fuckup guy [21:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 934 @ 0.00061235 = 0.5719 BTC [+] [21:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16495 @ 0.00061302 = 10.1118 BTC [+] [21:39]
mircea_popescu pigeons yeah well, you sorta misunderstand what this is all for. [21:40]
jcpham possibly [21:40]
mod6 i really thought the court was a great idea, actually. now i just see that we don't have the foresight/legal wisdom to carry it out [21:40]
kakobrekla like the real judged do. [21:41]
kakobrekla judges [21:41]
mod6 this is more important then that is [21:41]
mod6 that still will be over in the not too distant future, this is the future [21:41]
jcpham what good is talking going to do now [21:41]
jcpham if i'm not allowed to change anything [21:41]
jcpham i mean, I don't like the format myself [21:42]
mircea_popescu jcpham cause you get to feel bad about it [21:42]
jcpham the blog posting and whatnjot [21:42]
dub sorry why was the rota engaged? [21:42]
pigeons http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/case-i-wences-vs-mpex-breach-of-fiduciary-duty/ [21:42]
dub dude sent wrong amount, it seemed like mircea_popescu was trying to help him sort it out [21:42]
jcpham i'm not feeling mad, I'm feeling as if I disappointed someone [21:42]
dub did he then demand rota justice or did mircea_popescu [21:43]
jcpham regardless, someone was going to get disappointed [21:43]
pigeons it was engaged because instead of mircea_popescu just being a normal human, he used a customer service case to not fix the issue so he could force his customer to sue him to get justice, just so he could promote his rota [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.BBET] 5000 @ 0.00100013 = 5.0007 BTC [+] [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.BBET] 1000 @ 0.00100012 = 1.0001 BTC [-] [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.BBET] 230 @ 0.00100011 = 0.23 BTC [-] [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.BBET] 500 @ 0.0010001 = 0.5001 BTC [-] [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.BBET] 500 @ 0.00100009 = 0.5 BTC [-] [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.BBET] 770 @ 0.00100006 = 0.77 BTC [-] [21:43]
jcpham which is fine by me and we obviously did a bad job [21:43]
jurov like, it's totally the mission of a judge to please everyone [21:44]
jcpham so what's the point now? to learn from it [21:44]
dub yeah you did tbh [21:44]
jcpham or just get shit on [21:44]
jcpham FWIW i 'm not seeing any volunteers [21:44]
jcpham you have about 11 months to get your shit together [21:44]
dub its obviously the guys fault but forcing the rota to deal with it is not good for either rota or mpex imo [21:45]
pigeons if you are going to make a point that people can use your rota and it is a good alternative dispute method, forcing the issue on something like this when you just should have credited the dide without all the hassle is shitty [21:45]
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mircea_popescu pigeons i should have credited the dude w/o the hassle ? [21:45]
jurov pigeons, it would be good if you included the reasoning in your judgement [21:45]
mircea_popescu he's absolutely the last guy who sends ANY ammt to mpex and gets crtedited. [21:45]
pigeons my reasoning was included, [21:45]
mircea_popescu that's a certainty. [21:45]
pigeons "MPex does disclaim responsibility for customer errors in depositing, but correcting this error is a reasonable part of fiduciary duty." [21:46]
jcpham the problem is the fees, not the deposit [21:46]
jcpham that's where the uncertainty is [21:46]
jcpham to me, the fee is negligible given the deposit amount [21:46]
dub what fees? [21:46]
mircea_popescu how;s the relation relevant ? [21:46]
pigeons i wanted to include that i thought the rota was a good idea and didnt expect mircea_popescu would pt barnum it [21:46]
jcpham but i see now it is not negligble at al [21:46]
jcpham the fee is just a bonus [21:47]
jcpham we're talking about .00005 at max bitcoin transaction [21:47]
mircea_popescu pigeons the reason nobody was using it was (i understand now) the justified fear that people are not equipped to judge. [21:47]
jcpham in fees for the 130 btc [21:47]
mircea_popescu sadly this was proven true, luckily it was proven true on a modest case of little import. [21:47]
jcpham for all the ORTA fees are just icing on the cake [21:47]
dub so does MP get the neg rating? [21:47]
jcpham the 20 btc in fees is icing on the cake for someone [21:47]
jcpham it always will be [21:47]
dub or just the 100btc loss [21:47]
dub 130* [21:48]
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pigeons jcpham: explain the fees thing [21:48]
jcpham so we think or we know it was his funds and we decide to return the funds [21:48]
jcpham straight away once that decision is made, the fess are what decides everything [21:48]
jcpham the fee split [21:48]
pigeons i know it says dont fuck up your deposits, and im careful cause i know mircea_popescu will keep it, but if he's gonna use this to try to push his rota, well fact is it is a breach of fiduciary duty it is totally reasonable to fix this when shown proof [21:48]
mircea_popescu i was considering doing that, yes. [21:49]
jcpham also the whole fiduciary duty claim is only relevant given non-refund [21:49]
mircea_popescu but i'm not happy with how it works, so i won't do it in the future. [21:49]
dub mircea_popescu: what changed? [21:49]
mircea_popescu dub about what ? [21:49]
jcpham so assume we determine the funds to be his, and we also determine that funds will be returned, there is no breach [21:50]
dub about considering refunding him if/when shown proof [21:50]
pigeons jcpham: no [21:50]
mircea_popescu dub historically if you sent the wrong amt you're fucked. [21:50]
mircea_popescu i was considering changing this policy, via the rota. [21:50]
pigeons mircea_popescu could have settled with the guy then there was no breach [21:50]
mircea_popescu it failed to work, so i'm going back to what historically worked very well. [21:50]
dub mircea_popescu: I don't understand how the rota could change that, its your policy [21:50]
mircea_popescu i was considering relaxing it. [21:50]
pigeons but mircea_popescu forced him to sue cause mircea_popescu wanted to promote his rota, and we are his pawns in that [21:51]
dub the rota is a binary decision maker, not a policy generating device [21:51]
jcpham mircea_popescu did wences ask for his money back [21:51]
jcpham i assumed that he DID NOT [21:51]
mircea_popescu surely. [21:51]
jcpham i see [21:51]
jcpham my ruling stands [21:51]
jcpham i'm not discussing this anymore [21:51]
pigeons we are a cheap customer service department for him [21:51]
dub I don;t understand how it went from trying to help the guy to rota [21:52]
jcpham see pigeons [21:52]
jurov pigeons, did you ask about logs between mircea and wences? to confirm if mircea forced him to sue ? [21:52]
jurov or it's just your assumption? [21:52]
jcpham good point jurov [21:52]
jcpham now i know that i need to interrogate everyone [21:52]
pigeons jurov: i asked mircea_popescu [21:52]
pigeons it is also in the comments on the general rota post [21:52]
pigeons changing the policy via the rota? [21:53]
jcpham it was understanding that the parties didn't try to resolve it amicably - straight to rota, no discussion [21:53]
jcpham now that i know discussion came before the rota case [21:53]
pigeons no, mircea_popescu coached wences on how to format his claim [21:53]
jcpham i'm much more firm in my decison [21:53]
jcpham fucking precedent or not [21:54]
mircea_popescu pigeons wait, what's the problem with that exactly ? [21:54]
pigeons i didnt mind the keep your money policy too much but he made him bring this case, and no way i can find that it is reasonable in this instance [21:54]
dub it makes no sense if that is true [21:55]
pigeons mircea_popescu: the problem is this isn't an organic dispute, you would have paid the guy, but you decided if you made him go through the rota you would get publicity for it [21:55]
mircea_popescu no, actually, i wouldn't have paid the guy. [21:55]
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pigeons ok then the rota did its job [21:55]
pigeons yay rota [21:56]
mircea_popescu *shrug* [21:56]
dub mircea_popescu: it says in your sumbission that you would be prepared to pay him [21:56]
mircea_popescu since he sued. [21:56]
pigeons i thought mircea_popescu's submission was an offer to settle without going through this, but when i spoke with him he said no [21:56]
mircea_popescu next time someone tries that i'll just ignore it and that's the end of that story. [21:56]
jcpham problem solved. [21:56]
mircea_popescu basically yay rota, it managed to lock itself out of pretty much the only subject matter anyone thought it worthy of considering [21:57]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 39 @ 0.53 = 20.67 BTC [-] [21:57]
dub mircea_popescu: that doesnt make an sense, your policy is that he would not be refunded, why would that change during a rota case? [21:57]
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mircea_popescu not entirely sure if that means it'll just die in a corner somewhere, but seems quite likely. [21:57]
pigeons if rota decided with what you agreed, you would have made it policy [21:57]
pigeons and used the rota to back your policy [21:57]
dub I think this is actually a win for mircea_popescu [21:58]
pigeons but since it decided against you it isnt good policy what the rota decides [21:58]
jcpham i can't see how it can be a loss [21:58]
jcpham other than 9btc [21:58]
mircea_popescu pigeons if it made a reasonable decision it might have i nthe future had more important stuff brought before it. [21:58]
pigeons of course its a win, he either didnt have to pay, or else his rota gets promted and he pays what he owed [21:58]
mircea_popescu if it made an unreasonable decision it likely won't. [21:58]
mircea_popescu hard enough to push the concept as it is, even if we were to believe judges are marginally qualified and someqwhat sane [21:58]
mircea_popescu if we don't believe either of those it's a dead sell, no matter how hard i push it [21:58]
mircea_popescu and i don't push dead sells. [21:58]
dub if the guy had been forced to use the rota and lost, incurring further cost it would be even more of a joke [21:59]
pigeons well it won't be very useful if its only used for what you bring forward to it [21:59]
mircea_popescu dude. kids are born toothless [21:59]
dub wtf is an mpex custoemr service dispute doing in rota [21:59]
mircea_popescu and they only chew what their parents bring to them [21:59]
pigeons dub: exactly [21:59]
mircea_popescu what did you expect, to start by considering a five million btc case ? [21:59]
pigeons dub: actually, the reason is so he can promote his rota [21:59]
dub pigeons: then your decision is double wrong [22:00]
mircea_popescu no. the reason is so that you people can show you can judge. [22:00]
mircea_popescu it's what's known as an opportunity. [22:00]
jcpham the only thing i can possibly imagine that we did wrong was split the fees incorrectly [22:00]
jcpham no one will convince me otherwise [22:00]
* mod6 continues to bang head [22:00]
dub pigeons: 1) because the policy 'wences' agreed to by using mpex is clear and you ruled against that. 2) mpex would have looked a lot worse having forced the use of rota then winning [22:01]
mircea_popescu jcpham that's pretty much it. you allocated the cost of fucking up to the party that didn't fuck up. [22:01]
pigeons could not make someone pay to get justice [22:01]
mircea_popescu ahahahaah [22:02]
mircea_popescu baby, socialism is for fiat. [22:02]
mircea_popescu this is btc. [22:02]
dub I think you caused this by using the rota for something so trivial tbh [22:03]
pigeons i am very upset this was a rota case [22:04]
dub next rota case, should I have cornflakes or museli for breakfast [22:04]
dub so does mircea_popescu get neg rated? [22:04]
mircea_popescu dub it's unavoidable it will start small. [22:05]
mircea_popescu people won't risk their money on something untried. [22:05]
mircea_popescu and in retrospect that is a wise approach. [22:05]
dub that is what the whole thing is about right? judges donate their reputation to uphold the reputation of others [22:05]
pigeons dub: he does if he fails to make good on the judgement [22:05]
dub I see [22:06]
mircea_popescu whence all this arrogance anwyay ? [22:07]
jcpham a tx fee and a lot less time could have resolved this [22:07]
mircea_popescu "something so small [22:07]
mircea_popescu " ? what bs is that. [22:07]
mircea_popescu do something small well. [22:07]
pigeons something small like customer service? [22:08]
mircea_popescu something small like whatever can be had. [22:08]
dub mircea_popescu: nah, its a dumb thing for the rota [22:08]
mircea_popescu you're not part of the scotus, just yet. so, you know, little room to thumb nose. [22:09]
dub look at the notes in the comments, you are agreeing to reimburse him [22:09]
mircea_popescu dub yes, it was a simple case. [22:09]
dub so he got his money back, good result? [22:09]
jcpham it is the fees, dub [22:09]
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jcpham there is an idea that the fees represent [22:10]
dub why is the rulling against you a problem if thats what the rota is for, processing your customer service enquiries [22:10]
mircea_popescu dub because now any of the judges can start spamming my address with 100 btc payments [22:10]
jcpham apparently we shit on that idea [22:10]
mircea_popescu sueing [22:10]
pigeons it shows that if you expect service from mircea_popescu you better pay to sue him and win [22:10]
mircea_popescu then getting paid for the process. [22:10]
mircea_popescu it's a fucking hole. [22:10]
dub so you wanted to win, then pay him back? [22:11]
jcpham 1) if the claimant paid the funds [22:11]
mircea_popescu dub the idea was to allocate the win neutrally. [22:11]
jcpham 2) if the claimant can prove ownership of said funds [22:11]
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pigeons mp paid 9 btc to get his rota promoted and scare people into being more careful depositing because of raised awareness of the hassle of errors [22:12]
pigeons a bargain [22:12]
dub mircea_popescu: you appear to agree to return the funds or are at least satisfied with his signing of the message, if you had won the case would have looked even more retarded [22:12]
mircea_popescu dub : they could have allocated fractional. [22:12]
mircea_popescu pigeons what happens now if you send 100.0 btc, sue, get back 100 + 10 fee + 3 for judging it ? [22:13]
mircea_popescu am i out 3 btc for each 100 you send ? [22:13]
jcpham bank. [22:13]
jcpham that's what [22:13]
pigeons i dont know mircea_popescu that isnt clear to me [22:13]
mircea_popescu heh. [22:13]
dub ^ [22:13]
pigeons where does the 3 come from [22:13]
pigeons we tried asking [22:13]
mircea_popescu i thought i answered, but again : [22:14]
pigeons we thought it came from the looser's 10 [22:14]
mircea_popescu two parties to any trial. each contributes 10 btc, for a total of 20. [22:14]
dub either mpex policy is 'you fuckup the deposit you lose it, no question' or 'don't fuckup but we may be able to fix it' [22:14]
jcpham as i understand it: each case will have at least 20 btc in fess paid [22:14]
mircea_popescu 3 judges to any trial, each gets 3 btc, for a total of 9. [22:14]
pigeons ok, winner gets his 10 back then that leaves 1 [22:14]
jcpham 3 judges at 3btc apiece leaves 11BTC to split in every case [22:14]
mircea_popescu the winner gets a fraction of 10 btc = to the % he's allocated. [22:14]
pigeons i would have charged you more than 140 if i could have [22:14]
pigeons but his is whole at 140 [22:15]
pigeons he is whole at 140 [22:15]
mircea_popescu very odd. [22:15]
pigeons 130 + 10 fees you caused him to incur [22:15]
mircea_popescu you know, money isn't soemthing to be redistributed to the needy. or do you ? [22:15]
jcpham in my mind it takes little to no effort to refund someone [22:15]
mircea_popescu you still haven't answered the above question. [22:15]
jcpham how much effort is actually required [22:15]
pigeons he isnt needy, its his money [22:15]
mircea_popescu pigeons what happens now if you send 100.0 btc, sue, get back 100 + 10 fee + 3 for judging it ? <<< this. [22:16]
pigeons i dont know [22:16]
mircea_popescu do you plan to answer or should i just drop it ? [22:16]
mircea_popescu rigjht. [22:16]
pigeons that's over my head [22:16]
mircea_popescu well tell you what, that's no way to judge. [22:16]
jcpham well i'd get 113 BTC [22:16]
jcpham i know 4 other people who can do the same [22:16]
mircea_popescu 100 times a day. [22:16]
dub mircea_popescu: you should have thought about it before using a court to settle stupid shit [22:16]
mircea_popescu dub all shit to be settled is stupid [22:16]
pigeons you owed him 130, the fees were to be allocated, since you caused the fees, you pay them not him [22:16]
mircea_popescu if it weren't stupid it wouldn't end in a court. [22:16]
dub he got the same amount back that he spent, you lost the case, you incur charges [22:17]
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mircea_popescu pigeons i didn't "cause" him to send rounded numbers dood. [22:17]
pigeons no way you get anything of the fees when you could have settled it without rota [22:17]
pigeons you didnt cause it, it is reasonable that you credit him [22:17]
pigeons you diudnt, you pay [22:17]
mircea_popescu yeah, well, i guess this shows why the random person, even if well meaning, can not be a judge. [22:18]
jcpham damn [22:18]
pigeons you did cause the rounded anyway, by your retarted one address deposit system [22:18]
kakobrekla ^^ [22:18]
mircea_popescu lol mkay. [22:18]
dub it is kinda obtuse [22:18]
mircea_popescu dub kakobrekla pigeons IT CREATES ANONIMITY [22:18]
mircea_popescu are you fucking nuts ? ffs. [22:18]
mod6 jesus christ [22:19]
kakobrekla just like bit bet [22:19]
jcpham you guys should make bets on rota disputes from now [22:19]
jcpham maybe you can clean up [22:19]
mircea_popescu lol why'd anyone bet on that ? [22:19]
mircea_popescu the fact that all btc goes to the same address means nobody's deposits or withdrawals can be traced. [22:20]
mod6 (12:18) < pigeons> you did cause the rounded anyway, by your retarted one address deposit system << this is amazing [22:20]
mod6 are you guys IT people? [22:20]
mod6 what do you guys do for a living? [22:20]
kakobrekla nature is amazing. ~ ron swnson [22:20]
dub at first glance this seems open and shut, he failed to utilise mpex per teh conditions he agreed to, he loses [22:20]
pigeons it wasnt a case against the breach of conditions [22:21]
dub but in the 'case notes' there is some arbitaration and an inferred agreement to refund, so a win for the claimant is the intuitive result [22:21]
pigeons it was breach of fiduciary duty, which he did breach cause he failed to take a reasonable action [22:21]
pigeons i asked prior about that inferred agreement and mp said it wasnt what it appeared to us [22:22]
pigeons but yeah sure looks like one to me too [22:22]
mircea_popescu aaanyways. [22:22]
jcpham still need rassah's ruling [22:22]
mircea_popescu i think this has been discussed to it's demise [22:22]
* mod6 continues to beat dead horses [22:22]
* mircea_popescu just realised this is liek, the first tiem teh community pissed him off since before death of glbse [22:24]
mircea_popescu i wonder what's gonna be the next one [22:24]
pigeons wow the fact that you actually expected to win is shocking [22:24]
mircea_popescu i didn't expect to win dood. [22:24]
mod6 its not about who won the case. its about the damn ruling. [22:24]
mircea_popescu i expected the guy to win his 130 btc back. [22:24]
mod6 jesus fucking christ. [22:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4817 @ 0.00061302 = 2.9529 BTC [+] [22:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12783 @ 0.00061358 = 7.8434 BTC [+] [22:24]
mod6 i feel like im taking crazy pills [22:24]
mircea_popescu mod6 blue or red ? [22:25]
pigeons why didnt you just pay him instead of making us go through this if you expected him to win? [22:25]
* mod6 takes another red for extra effect [22:25]
pigeons why would the system award you anything for acting in bad faith [22:25]
mircea_popescu pigeons so that you may prove yourselves as actually takeable seriously as judges [22:25]
mircea_popescu in spite of no qualifications, prior experience etc. [22:25]
dub bad call [22:26]
mircea_popescu i guess lol [22:26]
Namworld So... can I use the rota for the unclaimed giga.etf case? =P [22:26]
pigeons well maybe we showed that, if we shilled we sure wouldnt have and you sure wouldnt have gotten any cases [22:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1608 @ 0.00061358 = 0.9866 BTC [+] [22:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3325 @ 0.00061374 = 2.0407 BTC [+] [22:26]
mircea_popescu pigeons you forget it's a voluntary system. [22:26]
mircea_popescu erring on either side is equally bad. [22:26]
mircea_popescu it has to be quite arrowstraight. [22:26]
pigeons well cause you think its an error doesnt make it so [22:26]
mircea_popescu ... [22:27]
pigeons you lost, you caused the process by not settling beforehand, so you pay the fees [22:27]
mircea_popescu dude. you created a pump. [22:27]
mircea_popescu peopel can now claim infinite btc from me. [22:27]
pigeons i didnt creat e this [22:27]
dub no you did [22:27]
pigeons dont they still have to win? [22:27]
mircea_popescu all it takes is for them to send rounded btc. [22:28]
dub its easy for you to fix though, just make the rule hard and fast, no refunds [22:28]
mircea_popescu dub yup [22:28]
dub its in the ToS, deal with it [22:28]
jurov mircea i don't understand one thing. why you can't just set a hefty fee for resolving mistakes? [22:28]
mircea_popescu i have no choice, obviously. [22:28]
pigeons it was a rule, but mp told him to go to rota [22:28]
dub I think the rota did mpex a favour ruling this way [22:28]
mircea_popescu jurov cause that's unfair to the poor. [22:28]
jurov oh, so better take everything. i see. [22:29]
mircea_popescu jurov hey, at least it's fair. [22:29]
pigeons its not fair, guy had to go through all this just to get his shit back [22:29]
mircea_popescu dub well quite possibly. [22:29]
mircea_popescu pigeons shit he missent. [22:29]
pigeons and MP gets publicity [22:29]
mircea_popescu dude i dunno, seriously, mail your house keys to some random address [22:29]
mircea_popescu then expect they pai [22:30]
mircea_popescu for the tiome you couldn't go inside cause you didn't have your keys or w/e [22:30]
mircea_popescu and the trouble of finding them again [22:30]
pigeons um wasnt random [22:30]
mircea_popescu 130.0 is random. [22:30]
pigeons no [22:30]
pigeons its the argument he gave to the deposit command [22:30]
mircea_popescu what i most of all wonder is, [22:31]
mircea_popescu why hasn't this lively debate take place in teh comment section ?! [22:31]
jurov mircea, so if i mail the keys, they get to keep the house? is it what you're saying? [22:31]
pigeons cause no one wants to email you to get credits to read a web page [22:31]
mircea_popescu comments are always free ?! [22:31]
* Descry has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [22:31]
pigeons nope i can only see this one page [22:31]
mircea_popescu dude... comments are always and in all circumstancess visible. [22:32]
jcpham i think if you want to preserve this in posterity for all to comment on, it needs to be moved elsewhere [22:32]
jcpham it's very personal right now [22:32]
mircea_popescu i dun particularly want to preserve it [22:33]
dub ^ [22:33]
dub lets all agree it was a fuckup and forget about it [22:33]
pigeons nope we all think we are right [22:34]
dub maybe there will be a real case for the rota one day but it now seems unlikely [22:34]
mircea_popescu that's why it's so fascinating lol [22:34]
mircea_popescu dub quite. [22:34]
jcpham hopefully the next judges will nt be so biased [22:34]
mircea_popescu i doubt it has any relevance to anyone other than the ppl involved tho [22:34]
jurov mircea, so if i mismail the keys, they get to keep the house? is it what you're saying? [22:34]
mircea_popescu i think for everyone else its "o, that thing that couldn't have worked didn't ? o wow." [22:35]
dub mircea_popescu - the first person to create his own justice system, and the first to destroy his own justice system [22:35]
jurov ^ can you at least reply to this? [22:35]
mircea_popescu jurov no, you may ask for the keys back, and even get them [22:35]
mircea_popescu but you can't get more ffs. [22:35]
mircea_popescu dub justice is apparently too prudish for me. [22:35]
pigeons he didnt get more [22:35]
pigeons explain that please [22:35]
pigeons he paid 140 and got 140 [22:35]
jcpham metaphorically, wences got back his own keys plus a nother set of keys to another house? [22:35]
jurov but in this case it's like they told me they're moving into the house, it's reasonable [22:36]
mircea_popescu this is literally "he should get the keys, the stamps for having asked and if we could we'd have given him all paid tow weeks vacation to boot" [22:36]
dub courts award costs to the winner, fyi [22:36]
dub the idea is teh winner goes away without having lost money [22:36]
markedathome pigeons: paid 130 and got 140 surely? [22:36]
pigeons right [22:36]
pigeons markedathome: he paid 140 130 +10 fees [22:36]
dub markedathome: he paid a 10btc fee to use the rota [22:36]
jcpham the only other option i would've entertained was for both parties to lose [22:36]
* luke-jr_ is now known as Luke-Jr [22:37]
markedathome oh right. [22:37]
dub to an outsider reading that blog post it actually look slike the rota worked fine [22:37]
pigeons should all be done in irc and log posted [22:38]
dub aside from mircea_popescu taxing himself 10btc to handly a customer service case [22:38]
jcpham yes, yes it does [22:38]
dub then, he might have paid someone 10 btc to handle it [22:38]
mircea_popescu dub it reads like mp taxing himself to create the system, and paying people to be idiots and subvert deposit process. [22:39]
dub 10btc is pretty cheap for 3 judges [22:39]
mircea_popescu sorta like i'm the government, i guess. [22:39]
mircea_popescu except in btc there's no such thing. [22:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00061132 = 4.9517 BTC [-] [22:39]
* markedathome wonders what mpoe-pr would have replied [22:39]
dub even internet judges [22:39]
dub mircea_popescu: you eveil, evil state you [22:40]
markedathome what would the difference have been with something like judge.me? [22:40]
mircea_popescu basically this is a ruling saying "it is right and proper for people to disregard instructions and send anything they want to mpex" [22:40]
mircea_popescu which is pretty boneheaded. [22:40]
jcpham i do not agree with that [22:40]
pigeons no but it happens, especially with the weird deposit system [22:40]
dub neither [22:40]
jcpham i see your point, but based on the details of this case [22:40]
jcpham that is not true [22:40]
mircea_popescu pigeons "it happens" ? [22:40]
pigeons and when it does happen, and you've shown mpex that you made it error, they dont fix it, hence the rota decision [22:41]
jurov no. it is ruling saying "it is improper for mpex to keep everything if user makes a mistake" [22:41]
jcpham especially if the user sends the correct deposit [22:41]
mircea_popescu jurov yeah. same thing. [22:41]
pigeons mistakes dont happen mircea_popescu ? [22:41]
markedathome mircea_popescu: maybe offer, 1) anonymous deposit - lose at risk even with signed / authenticated ownership [22:41]
jcpham after the mistake [22:41]
mircea_popescu pigeons mistakes are paid for BY THOSE WHO MAKLE THEM [22:41]
markedathome 2) custom addresses - lose anonymity [22:41]
mircea_popescu not by those who have the most money. [22:41]
mircea_popescu not by those who are the bigger entity [22:41]
mircea_popescu not by those who we identify as "the man" in our misguided quest for social justice. [22:41]
mircea_popescu etc. [22:41]
pigeons mircea_popescu: actually, it was reasonable in this case to resolve his mistake, that was the ruling [22:42]
dub no, its a ruling saying 'if you are going to enter into arbitration regarding incorrect depost amounts, do that privately' [22:42]
mircea_popescu dub cheeky ruling then. [22:42]
mircea_popescu if that actually is the case, i should certainly dissolve it. [22:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7325 @ 0.00061374 = 4.4956 BTC [+] [22:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8844 @ 0.00061495 = 5.4386 BTC [+] [22:43]
pigeons control freak [22:43]
dub in a real court if you forced a case to be raised, then during the hearing capitualted to the other party, the court would probably impose an additional fine on you for wasting its time [22:43]
mircea_popescu no but wtf bs is this, "We are too good for the case at hand" [22:43]
mircea_popescu dub the idea here is to create a new system, not to rehash the old. [22:43]
pigeons dub: that is exactly how i felt [22:44]
mircea_popescu the entire point is to have voluntary courts, which is to say, courts which can be relied on to be fair. by both parties. [22:44]
dub well then the rota wasn't what I and apparently others thought [22:44]
mircea_popescu well i guess not. [22:44]
jcpham fairness is a relative term [22:44]
pigeons it was fair to both parties, wences was made whole, mp lost nothing other than the fees [22:44]
mircea_popescu jcpham in no interpretation of fairness can you promote a judgement based on one single party's pov. [22:44]
mircea_popescu "he paid 130+10 and should get back 140" [22:45]
mircea_popescu that's fine. [22:45]
dub I understand how mircea_popescu feels though [22:45]
mircea_popescu but it's half the story, and not good enough. [22:45]
pigeons mircea_popescu: that's absolutely the issue [22:45]
dub I took a guy to court for selling me a boat that leaked, the ruled in his favour because we didnt have anything about it not leaking in a contract [22:45]
mircea_popescu "nothing other than the fees" is btc. [22:46]
dub true story [22:46]
pigeons any judgement involving mircea_popescu keeping something would have had to show he was being reasonable, and he wasn't [22:46]
dub had to pay his fees [22:46]
jcpham i'd like to know where the original wording is..... [22:46]
mircea_popescu " reasonable" ?! [22:46]
jurov if i'd have a policy saying to clients "if you make a mistake, screw you" and there's no real reason why it has to be so, it's only reasonable the court would say "screw your policy" [22:46]
mircea_popescu wtf is that lol. [22:46]
jcpham the orginal wording were it says mpex keeps funds mistakenly sent or incorrect in size [22:46]
mircea_popescu jurov no, it's not. the court isn't above the contract [22:46]
mircea_popescu again, this isn't fiat world and socialist government imposing it. [22:46]
mircea_popescu jcpham it's in the old options page somewhere [22:47]
jcpham i know it is somewhere [22:47]
jcpham because i remember readin it [22:47]
mircea_popescu DEPOSIT|{sum}, where the sum is an integer, written in BTC (note that you can not deposit less than 10 BTC). You will be quoted an exact sum, which you must send to the exchange address (1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx). Don't round anything, the decimals are there to identify you as the beneficiary. You will be credited the full amount. [22:47]
pigeons i thought about giving it to mp since he does say he keeps errors, but in law that wont hold up, thats not reasonable [22:47]
mircea_popescu there's that in the current faq [22:47]
jurov the court isn't above the contract... who decided, you? [22:47]
jurov rota just decided else [22:47]
mircea_popescu jurov yes. [22:47]
mircea_popescu well rota is well fucked then. [22:47]
pigeons even if a contract spells that and this happened a court rules this way [22:47]
jcpham yes but i thought there was wording that said something along the lines of "if it is wrong, you do not get it back" [22:48]
mircea_popescu jcpham there's gonna be lol. [22:48]
jcpham which is a customer service nightmare [22:48]
jcpham if you relegate me to customer service, I'm going to serve your customers [22:48]
jcpham for better or worse [22:48]
mircea_popescu that's not what a judge does. [22:48]
mircea_popescu turns out this banal case was actually incredibly fucking intricate huh. [22:48]
jcpham i wouldn't think so either [22:48]
jcpham but here we are. [22:49]
jcpham i think everyone had the best intentions [22:49]
mircea_popescu im pretty sure, yeah. [22:49]
* Fiddle2 (~Fiddle@dslb-188-101-239-062.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:49]
mircea_popescu but i squarely don't see how anyone would ever consider responding to a case, ever. [22:49]
mircea_popescu i mean, why ? run the risk of purely unilateral sidetaking... to what avail ? makes no sense. [22:50]
jcpham the next case may be unilateral against the claimant [22:50]
mircea_popescu that's no consolation. [22:50]
pigeons yeah you always run the risk of unilateral sidetaking [22:51]
jcpham the fees are the only way you have been harmed [22:51]
mircea_popescu if people wanted to gamble they'd go to sdice [22:51]
pigeons this was just clearcut mircea_popescu you owed him the money, he won, loser pays fees [22:51]
jcpham it seems the real precedent is the loser pays the fees [22:52]
jcpham but i don't like the winner/loser description [22:52]
jcpham it wasn't necessary to frame this case this way imho [22:52]
pigeons if another case it works out differently fine, that doesnt have to be a precedent, but in this case the fees were clearly incurred by mircea_popescu being unwilling to work out the issue despite having the facts beforehand [22:52]
* Fiddle has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [22:52]
mircea_popescu pigeons except the loser is the party that made no mistake. [22:53]
mircea_popescu which is insane. [22:53]
jcpham the implication is that the "mistake" was not returning the funds [22:54]
jcpham as quickly as possible [22:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00061495 = 7.7484 BTC [+] [22:54]
jcpham if the guy hadn't send the correct amount [22:54]
mircea_popescu this can not be a mistake. it's not part of the deal. [22:54]
jcpham i can see him not getting his money back [22:54]
pigeons its pretty well established in law actually that you don't pay for mistakes [22:54]
mircea_popescu the court can't substitute its own moral judgements for the contract between the parties. [22:54]
jcpham can't it [22:55]
pigeons he fulfilled his contract, sent the money, but he made a mistake [22:55]
mircea_popescu he did not fulfill his contract, no. [22:55]
pigeons you had the obligation to fix that for him [22:55]
mircea_popescu nope. [22:55]
pigeons well then how come you lost? [22:55]
mircea_popescu i had no such obligation, quite specifically. [22:55]
mircea_popescu because i was nice and you were stupid, tbh. [22:55]
jcpham i would seem that due to the lack of rules, the rota can make all sorts of WILDLY INACCURATE decisions [22:55]
mircea_popescu jcpham yeah. [22:56]
mircea_popescu reading the above, i now regred i didn't more clearly stress the supremacy of contract point [22:56]
mircea_popescu i can clearly see in retrospect how this "obvious" point was only obvious to me. [22:56]
pigeons no but even a written contract saying that mistakes in deposits are kept would have resulted the same [22:56]
mircea_popescu that's idiocy. [22:56]
pigeons because the intent of the contract is obviously what's material [22:56]
jcpham i'm still looking for the actual wording on MPEX (now) [22:57]
jcpham where it says incorrect deposits are kept [22:57]
mircea_popescu jcpham i quoted it above, grep deposits [22:57]
jcpham because this fact was discussed [22:57]
pigeons i knew this was policy, but in this particular case, it was reasonable that mircea_popescu credit the amount showed to have been sent [22:58]
mircea_popescu pigeons i guess so. [22:58]
mircea_popescu what's unreasonable tho, is to expect me to pay the costs of doing so. [22:58]
markedathome the /faq.html entry for DEPOSIT{sum} I thought would have had the same text as that of the command (in fact all of the commands should) [22:58]
pigeons which costs, your time was unavoidable here, but you didnt have to pay the fees if you settled before rota [22:58]
jcpham to be even more specific mircea_popescu [22:59]
jcpham I thought you had specifcs, like [22:59]
jcpham when it first opened [22:59]
jcpham there was a sentence saying you didn't return deposits that were wrong [22:59]
mircea_popescu pigeons why would i "settle before the rota" ? what bs is that? [22:59]
mircea_popescu jcpham let me dig it up [22:59]
pigeons because you had all the info we had [22:59]
pigeons why should this have gone to rota? [22:59]
jcpham i would like to re-read it if it still there [22:59]
pigeons only reason (other than bad faith wanting to promote rota) would be you didnt want to pay [23:00]
mircea_popescu Before sending the sum quoted you have to send an email containing at the very least the address you want benefits (through either the later exercise or sale of your contracts) forwarded to and the sum quoted to you. This allows you to be identified. If you fail to do this it may be impossible to ever identify you as the owner of the respective contracts/bitcoins, and so they may be forever lost. [23:01]
pigeons it shouldnt have gone to rota because he made it clear to you he paid the money [23:01]
mircea_popescu pigeons he only made it clear at the rota, actually. [23:01]
mircea_popescu once he finally signed the thing [23:01]
jcpham i suggest a new irc channel for this discussion should it arise again [23:02]
jcpham possibly a new forum format [23:02]
mircea_popescu why, we drownign out the assbot ? [23:02]
assbot naw [23:02]
pigeons im not doing a forum, but an irc channel agreed [23:02]
mircea_popescu you can go to #trilema. [23:02]
jcpham other than mircea_popescu's blog [23:02]
pigeons i cant read his blog it asks for a fee [23:03]
jcpham i'm dependant on google translate [23:03]
mircea_popescu lately i write in english, still ? [23:03]
pigeons sort of [23:04]
jcpham sorry i didn't know you switched [23:04]
jcpham but the case is in english [23:04]
markedathome mircea_popescu: faq.html, Q23, *definition [23:04]
jcpham untranslated [23:04]
mircea_popescu i changed like 3 months ago [23:05]
markedathome rota peeps - faq q24, whilst not strictly mentioning deposits, isn't this also relevant? [23:05]
mircea_popescu 23. What will you do about stolen coins ? How will you help the rightful owner ? [23:05]
mircea_popescu By defition the rightful owner of any coins is "he who can send them". If you take issue with that, please stick to fiat. You are not ready for Bitcoin yet. [23:05]
mircea_popescu haha ty. [23:05]
jcpham my bad for not disabling google translate [23:05]
mircea_popescu defition lol [23:05]
mircea_popescu thios was proofed like 8 times. STILL SPELLING ERRORS IN IT OMG [23:05]
jcpham Q23 was addressed markedathome [23:06]
jcpham it was never at question who the present owner of the 130 btc was [23:06]
jcpham the question was past ownership and fiduciary responsibility [23:06]
jcpham throwing the term "fiduciary responsibility" changes things [23:07]
jcpham in there [23:07]
markedathome I thought it was with two deposits of 130btc and only one order, along with not being able to sign with the originating key. [23:07]
thestringpuller !ticker m S.MPOE [23:07]
assbot [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0005984 / 0.000611 / 0.0006312 (1755603 shares, 1,072.68 BTC), 7D: 0.0005984 / 0.00065107 / 0.00068 (8687621 shares, 5,656.34 BTC), 30D: 0.0005984 / 0.00064545 / 0.00068 (38661110 shares, 24,953.83 BTC) [23:08]
jcpham we had him sign from blockchain [23:08]
jcpham i new statement [23:08]
jcpham *a new statement [23:08]
mircea_popescu DEPOSIT|{sum}, where the sum is an integer, written in BTC (note that you can not deposit less than 10 BTC). You will be quoted an exact sum, which you must send to the exchange address (1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx). Don't round anything, the decimals are there to identify you as the beneficiary. You will be credited the full amount. Incoming Bitcoin that doesn't exactly match a quoted sum will be simply kept, r [23:08]
mircea_popescu eported as profits and distributed to MPEx shareholders. [23:08]
mircea_popescu there, last sentence in red. [23:08]
mircea_popescu and bold face. [23:08]
jcpham did you just add that [23:08]
mircea_popescu anyone see room for misinterpretation ? [23:08]
mircea_popescu jcpham yes. [23:08]
jcpham it used to be there [23:08]
jcpham it was removed [23:09]
jcpham and it has now been re-added [23:09]
mircea_popescu no i just added it now. [23:09]
jcpham ok, ty. [23:09]
jcpham i have the type of memory where i read things and usually cannot forget them [23:09]
jcpham that sentence was there at one point in time [23:09]
* Buglouse has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [23:09]
mircea_popescu i think you're thinking the old mpoe page faq [23:09]
jcpham a similarly worded sentence [23:09]
jcpham possibly [23:09]
mircea_popescu but yes, the idea was always the same. [23:10]
jcpham it would've been the first incarnation of any site you debuted [23:10]
jcpham because i read it then [23:10]
markedathome jcpham: the q5 syntax deposit doesn't have that addition, the output of the command did. [23:10]
mircea_popescu yeah, that. [23:10]
mircea_popescu markedathome o right you are [23:10]
jcpham i see [23:10]
mircea_popescu it was also in the deposit slip, yes. [23:10]
mircea_popescu lemme find that [23:10]
jcpham i think if you go out of your way to make that sentence known [23:11]
mircea_popescu i thought i had been lol. [23:11]
mircea_popescu hmm, the deposit slip only says "send this exactly" [23:11]
jcpham not to me, not searchable in the faq to the public [23:11]
jcpham not until now [23:11]
jcpham i was peronally aware of the idea of it, yes [23:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134 @ 0.00061495 = 0.0824 BTC [+] [23:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26149 @ 0.00061508 = 16.0837 BTC [+] [23:12]
mircea_popescu Jan 05 22:13:53 BUT! FOR SRS! I AM KEEPING ROUNDED SUMS! NOOBS BEWARE! [23:12]
mircea_popescu liek ? [23:12]
markedathome doesn't have mpex deposit so would be difficult to find? [23:12]
jcpham oh my bad for missing that sentence on January 5th at 10pm [23:12]
mircea_popescu kik [23:13]
thestringpuller kik [23:15]
thestringpuller lol [23:15]
markedathome I think that it does show that the rota needs to have area of jusrisdiction and contracts specifically stated, either in the case, the rota site/faq and in nominating the selection of the judges [23:15]
mircea_popescu yeah but a large part of the appeal was the philosophical purity of its general open nature [23:16]
mircea_popescu once you start trying to prop things with fiat-type arches you'll collapse in fiat mess. [23:16]
thestringpuller ^idealistic are we? [23:17]
markedathome then isn't that the jurisdiction, and should be used as the basis? and if so which if any of the ruling matched? [23:17]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller when i can afford to be. [23:18]
mircea_popescu markedathome hm ? [23:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00061132 = 8.7419 BTC [-] [23:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 450 @ 0.00061109 = 0.275 BTC [-] [23:23]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.5231 = 1.0462 BTC [-] [23:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17313 @ 0.00061508 = 10.6489 BTC [+] [23:29]
* Buglouse (~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:30]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.52 = 1.56 BTC [-] [23:31]
dub mircea_popescu: just because it didn't go your way doesn't mean that didnt happen [23:32]
mircea_popescu that ? [23:33]
dub philosophical purity [23:33]
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mircea_popescu well obviously a one case of anything is about as meaningless as any other one case of something else [23:34]
* copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:35]
mircea_popescu for that matter, expectign people to be thrown in a pond supposed to be above and beyond the collected wisdom of a good third of all humans that ever lived is also a bit off. [23:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6038 @ 0.00061508 = 3.7139 BTC [+] [23:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10962 @ 0.00061536 = 6.7456 BTC [+] [23:36]
dub again because the 'wisdom' does not suit you, its not invalid [23:37]
dub the judges ruled that their time was wasted with triviality [23:37]
mircea_popescu that's not something rthey can rule. [23:39]
mircea_popescu what's this, fantasia ? [23:39]
dub sure it is, they do in 'fiat' courts every day [23:39]
dub in fact, judges do whatever it is they feel like, by exposing your internal process to a court of judges you accepted that [23:40]
mircea_popescu ahaha! wait, wait. these verdicts, they fail to include payment addresses. [23:40]
mircea_popescu o this is going to be even more dramatique. [23:40]
mircea_popescu pigeons jcpham http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/case-i-wences-vs-mpex-breach-of-fiduciary-duty/#comment-91499 [23:41]
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jcpham pigeons included his [23:42]
jcpham i may say fuck it [23:42]
mircea_popescu o i see, i skipped over the last yeah [23:43]
mircea_popescu fixing. [23:43]
mircea_popescu jcpham someone will sooner or later have to lift the messy rock of btc courts. [23:43]
mircea_popescu it's going to be messy, and it's going to be a waste of everyone's time. [23:44]
mircea_popescu and until it gets done we will just go on sucking. [23:44]
Namworld So, can I use the rota for GIGA.ETF... [23:45]
dub who are you asking? [23:45]
Namworld I don't know. Who's in the rota? How do I start anything? [23:46]
mircea_popescu well read up on it neh ? [23:46]
Namworld I'll try and find the link I guess [23:47]
mircea_popescu normally i would have loved to say yes, but under the circumstances i don't see myself signing. [23:47]
mircea_popescu bullshit "claimant is always right and mp is annoying and rich" judgements i don't need a court for, they're a dime a dozen. [23:47]
jcpham the judgement wasn't bullshit [23:49]
jcpham and it was impartial [23:49]
jcpham it makes you look like a fucking angel [23:49]
mircea_popescu hey, you judge the case, i judge your judgement. seems logical neh ? [23:50]
jcpham Namworld the rota was proposed here: http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-first-roll-of-judges-december-2012/ [23:50]
Namworld Yeah, already found the link [23:50]
Namworld thanks [23:50]
jcpham k [23:50]
mircea_popescu that's the first roll. iirc there's a link to the very short contitution in it [23:50]
jcpham my bad [23:50]
jcpham the link is in there to the proposal [23:50]
jcpham Judicator [23:51]
pigeons https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/S.BBET-PT [23:51]
jcpham still like that word with the a- [23:51]
pigeons wow great contract on that one [23:52]
mircea_popescu you mean ad- ? [23:52]
jcpham or that too [23:52]
jcpham adj [23:52]
pigeons oh of course this too https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/S.DICE-PT [23:53]
jcpham you know i had too google the correct spelling of it [23:53]
Namworld Well I wish to use the rota [23:53]
jcpham when i intentiaonally mispelled it [23:53]
jcpham true story [23:53]
mircea_popescu If any votes are held on the underlieing asset then (if practical) a motion will [23:53]
mircea_popescu somebody didn't read teh contract [23:53]
mircea_popescu underlieing [23:54]
mircea_popescu wtf he spells it that way throughout. [23:54]
jcpham fwiw i have 0 business relationship with any asset or exchange [23:54]
jcpham or any other rota member [23:54]
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* jcpham has totally assumed a bystander role [23:55]
pigeons except i pay you to clean my house topless [23:55]
jurov lol i realized i can't enter rota even if i wanted [23:55]
jurov i'd rule "let mircea screw them, so they prefer coinbr" [23:55]
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* Smoovious (~imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:55]
jcpham i cannot benefit from any of this [23:55]
jcpham in any way that i'm aware of [23:56]
pigeons i'm so fair it hurts [23:56]
dub you can benefit of the peoples love [23:56]
jcpham can i do the queen victoria wave [23:56]
* jcpham turns hand back and forth [23:56]
jcpham all my assets defuncted themselves [23:57]
dub all judges should submit photo wearing silly wig [23:57]
assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.01 BTC [+] [23:57]
dub and optionally, gavel in pooper [23:57]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118 @ 0.00061536 = 0.0726 BTC [+] [23:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5382 @ 0.00061577 = 3.3141 BTC [+] [23:59]
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