Forum logs for 21 Feb 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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jurov geee. so apparently voldemort became kill out idiots! [00:07]
assbot Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 108: The Truth, Pt 5, Answers and Riddles ... ( ) [00:07]
* asciilifeform was waiting for that thing to pop up here [00:07]
asciilifeform we did discuss the author on at least one occasion [00:07]
* asciilifeform has him mentally -10 wot for many, many years now [00:08]
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jurov yea i remember that well [00:10]
decimation asciilifeform: rowling? [00:10]
asciilifeform nope [00:10]
asciilifeform it's a riff [00:10]
asciilifeform on the original [00:10]
asciilifeform (which i also never got around to reading) [00:10]
decimation is this better or worse than the 'riff' featuring the woodchipper? [00:10]
asciilifeform based very loosely [00:10]
decimation I read most of the books. my conclusion is that rowling got 'lucky' [00:11]
asciilifeform anyway 'methods of rationality' is by a fella called yudkowsky [00:11]
asciilifeform (whozzat? see log.) [00:12]
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decimation lol yudkowsky wrote a harry potter fan book [00:12]
asciilifeform possibly his best known work. [00:13]
asciilifeform by a very long shot [00:13]
* decimation learns a fact about silly-con valley, only to find it is even *more* true than he thought [00:13]
punkman chapter 108? last time I looked at it was like 50 [00:13]
danielpbarron i made a rootfs_ramdisk.img but i'm pretty sure it isn't ready due to some confusion over what needs to be done with /dev/ and also there were other files mentioned in the guide that i could not find in my result [00:14]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: you're very nearly at the part that catastrophically fails [00:14]
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jurov !up arvicco [00:22]
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danielpbarron mdsetimage: could not find symbols in netbsd [00:24]
asciilifeform ding ding ding [00:24]
asciilifeform there we go [00:24]
danielpbarron well that elimates possibility number 4, and introduced number 5 (that we are in cahoots) [00:25]
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mats kek [00:33]
assbot The Lack of Gentle Platonic Touch in Men's Lives is a Killer - ... ( ) [00:33]
trinque #touchislife [00:36]
trinque sounds like that guy needs a professional cuddler [00:37]
assbot Cuddle Up To Me ... ( ) [00:37]
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mats [00:57]
assbot Unusual Bugs ... ( ) [00:57]
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decimation "" [01:01]
assbot Britain cannot defend itself against Putin's military might, top brass warn - Telegraph ... ( ) [01:01]
decimation doh "As two RAF Typhoon fighters were scrambled on Wednesday evening to escort Russian long range bombers flying off Cornwall, military chiefs said that the UK “could not cope” with an all-out attack as our defences have been “decimated”. " [01:01]
asciilifeform << from the tales of the nailgun squadron [01:03]
assbot Times publisher, News UK, launches internal investigation after suicides of two members of its commercial staff - Telegraph ... ( ) [01:03]
decimation maybe it's depressing - working in london [01:03]
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decimation [01:07]
assbot Putin verärgert - EU droht mit Sanktionen ... ( ) [01:07]
decimation "„Es wird diesem Land nicht einfach gemacht, seinen Weg in Freiheit und Selbstbestimmtheit zu finden.“ Der Prozess bleibe schwierig." < It is not easy for this country [ukraine] to find its way to freedom and self determination" [Merkel] said [01:08]
decimation apparently she's starting to equivocate... [01:08]
mircea_popescu doh "As two RAF Typhoon <<< news to exactly no-one [01:08]
asciilifeform 'airstrip one' [01:09]
decimation aye [01:09]
asciilifeform it's just for usaf to land & refuel on [01:09]
decimation not least to the russians [01:09]
mircea_popescu and london sucks in a way that can't be described. [01:09]
asciilifeform london sucked in 1700 [01:09]
mircea_popescu nothing changed. [01:09]
decimation the russians apparently toy with the yuropeans like a kitty toys with a fish [01:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform unfortunately, the us response in ukr is proportionately larger than the us response would be in england, for the sameactivity. [01:09]
decimation each one of those tu-95's can carry cruise missiles that can individually fly 600 km, so these missions are merely propaganda runs [01:10]
mircea_popescu us is like the sniper : has one good shot. if he misses that one, or if you get in range... dead. [01:10]
asciilifeform against defenseless folks, sniper has as many shots as are in his horn [01:10]
mircea_popescu not the case here. [01:11]
mircea_popescu for one thing, the horn holds pretty much a shot. for the other, ru actually has air superiority since about 2013. [01:11]
decimation well, it remains to be seen what the tu-95's would do if they were 'fired in anger' [01:12]
asciilifeform wake me up when ru has not-running-winblows superiority [01:12]
decimation they would probably not derp around in enemy airspace [01:12]
mircea_popescu arbitrary fence is arbitrary. [01:13]
decimation I seriously doubt the us would be unable to defend its airspace [01:14]
decimation but it is probably also the case that ru could inflict serious damage [01:15]
mircea_popescu "defend its airspace" is irrelevant here. the us is unable to project. [01:15]
mircea_popescu anyone can defend, these days, because of rocketry. [01:15]
mircea_popescu and there's nothing wrong with that. [01:16]
decimation agreed, that's another matter [01:16]
mircea_popescu heck, even the ukrs can defend their airspace from commercial airliners [01:16]
decimation actually usg has also tacitly admitted that its submarines are becoming useless [01:16]
assbot Are Submarines About to Become Obsolete? | The National Interest ... ( ) [01:16]
mats i find that dubious [01:17]
mircea_popescu well, it makes little sense to keep a nuclear sub and a carrier these days [01:18]
mircea_popescu as they do essentially the same things. [01:18]
mircea_popescu face the same risk profiles etc. [01:18]
mats i imagine its easier to defend a sub rather than a carrier [01:19]
decimation mats: you are probably right on that one [01:19]
asciilifeform a bit hard to take off a jet from sub [01:19]
decimation the paper in question seems to imply it's mainly a matter of what happens when the sub gets too close to shore [01:19]
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mircea_popescu mats why ? [01:20]
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decimation asciilifeform: "A new approach to offensive undersea operations. Manned submarines will likely need to shift from being front-line tactical platforms like aircraft to being host and coordination platforms like aircraft carriers. " [01:20]
mircea_popescu heh. [01:21]
mats well for one thing a carrier is vulnerable on all axes [01:21]
mircea_popescu mats so is the sub. [01:21]
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mats sub can crawl sea floor and reduce attack surface [01:21]
mircea_popescu actually floor is very dangerous with the new seeking missiles [01:22]
mircea_popescu because it reflects the wave / crushes [01:22]
decimation asciilifeform: on page 14 of the linked pdf you can see a picture of sub 'taking off' uav [01:22]
mats name? [01:22]
mircea_popescu i dun have a name. [01:22]
asciilifeform they launched biplanes and even triplanes from subs [01:23]
asciilifeform '30s [01:23]
mats ill investigate later then [01:23]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's just that the advantages of subs (quietness, depth) are less and less valuable [01:23]
mircea_popescu and once they can't actually work tactically anymore, they're basically a smaller submersible carrier. [01:24]
decimation "Emerging non-acoustic detection techniques also show great promise. The theoretical possibilities of detecting minute changes on the ocean’s surface caused by a submarine or the wake it leaves underwater have been widely recognized since the Cold War, but only now have processing power and oceanographic modeling improved to the point where these approaches may be operationally feasible. Methods to detect radiation or chemicals [01:25]
decimation emitted by a submarine also date from the Cold War and may benefit from the improved sensitivity “big data” could provide." [01:25]
mats sounds like a good scam [01:26]
mircea_popescu mats it becomes insanely more expensive to quiet them down as time passes. [01:26]
mats i see your point, but im not convinced the detection technology is there yet [01:28]
decimation " New ASW technologies and improve- ments to non-nuclear undersea platforms, however, will likely enable adversaries to comple- ment their surface and air A2/AD networks with undersea surveillance and attack systems. These may not have the reach of anti-ship ballistic missiles or modern surface-to-air missiles, but they have the potential to make the undersea littorals of a potential adversary an increas- ingly denied zone. " [01:28]
mats i hope they called james cameron [01:29]
mircea_popescu well, whether it's here yet or not... things still evolve one way. all i said was re this direction. [01:29]
mircea_popescu decimation basically they're really desperate to maintain as much projection into future budgets, but in point of fact... maintaining both a carrier and a nuclear powered sub programme isn't likely. [01:30]
decimation mats, this paper is not some random derp, it's a highly connected dod think tank [01:30]
asciilifeform how many nuke subs left in usa? and how many janitors who haven't torched theirs yet [01:30]
mircea_popescu like 16 ? [01:30]
asciilifeform 1 down, ? to go [01:30]
asciilifeform 15 [01:31]
mircea_popescu anyway, it will be the lol of all time if the carrier-sub joint at the seams frankenstein resembles anything the fighter-bomber-helicopter-drone f35 attempt. [01:31]
mircea_popescu "costs an infinity, delivers paperwork" [01:31]
asciilifeform in j. sladek's 'tik tok', sf novel in '83, in the 'dark future' (tm) an aircraft-carrier-with-wheels, vast and infinitely expensive, is finally built [01:33]
decimation well, the bigger picture is that usg is not going to be able to threaten russia or china as much as it used to [01:33]
mats maybe the sea drones will fail less than the airborne models [01:33]
asciilifeform as a mega-apocalyptic culmination of usg military wankery [01:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform indeed. [01:33]
mats a collection of papers [01:35]
assbot AA. Bibliography - Secure Coding - CERT Secure Coding Standards ... ( ) [01:35]
asciilifeform mats: i have that book [01:35]
asciilifeform (seacord) [01:36]
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mats im reading the papers in preparation for the book [01:36]
mats taking me ages i might add [01:39]
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thestringpuller falling asleep at a computer is one of the most amazing feelings ever [01:58]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [01:58]
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cazalla ;;later tell Vexual look who it is lol [02:35]
gribble The operation succeeded. [02:35]
assbot King of cannabis Nevil Schoenmakers stages a quiet comeback ... ( ) [02:35]
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mircea_popescu heh check that out. [02:49]
mircea_popescu poor guy had to wait 20 years for teh fucktards torun out of steam. [02:50]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [14:03]
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-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [14:03]
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mircea_popescu assbot: Greece and creditors agree to extend bailout package << euians saw all the fun usians had with the "debt ceiling", made a little sideshow of their own. [14:22]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla: <<< that's pretty much EXACTLY it. and then various noobs imagine physics is a serious science, while in fact it barely hangs out at the outskirts of credibility, and same noobs imagine stuff like i dunno, psychiatry or "earth sciences" are not kinda as srs as physics "but nevertheless". [14:24]
assbot xkcd: Fundamental Forces ... ( ) [14:24]
mircea_popescu that's what nobody wants to really say about string theory : while it's a ridiculous pile of pasta, it's not *really* that far off from physics. [14:25]
mircea_popescu "US Central Command says up to 25,000 troops are being assembled for the Mosul campaign, to take on 1-2,000 ISIL fighters." boooon.... o sa iasa un dezastru... [14:26]
PeterL why do they need so many troops? [14:27]
mircea_popescu because they don't stand a chance. [14:28]
mircea_popescu "well at least there's a lot of us. that gotta count for something." [14:28]
mircea_popescu anyway, that they're "iraquis" is ridoinculous beyond belief. not even the usg believes anyone'd believe it, hence the "and kurdish" because supposedly nobody knows who the kurds are. except... [14:29]
mircea_popescu "everyone" knows academi has been hiring overtime. these are all mercenaries, they are costing the us more than us troops would have cost [14:29]
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mircea_popescu and winning a war with mercenaries against those nuts is above what i could accomplish. [14:29]
PeterL and us USians still wonder why we are paying for soldiers to derp around on the other side of the world [14:30]
mircea_popescu but the move has both putin and the chinese politburo in stitches. seriously, this means the us will never again deploy its own troops. us military just became an extremely expensive jannisary corp. [14:30]
mircea_popescu the epic lulz of it tho... so iraq had some 100k under arms that ran off abandoning not just weapons but their very unifortms, and now the us that don't even speak the language found 20k guys who are of the opposite persuasion. heck, if only the iraq state could be as proficiernt, they could have found better soldiers o.O [14:32]
PeterL at what point does this mercenary force stop listening to orders and just raiding whoever the feel like? [14:33]
mircea_popescu half hour in ? [14:33]
mircea_popescu let me remind you that last time the dod threatened to investigate blackwater the response (from the ceo) was : if you try we'll just kill your "investigator" and that'll be that. [14:34]
mircea_popescu so they... didn't. [14:34]
PeterL seems like we are building a monster we wont be able to control [14:34]
mircea_popescu that's coupla decades ago. [14:34]
PeterL but we keep feeding it, at some point it won't need our food anymore [14:35]
mircea_popescu if you raise your children badly, it's not that they won't NEED it [14:35]
mircea_popescu is that at some point they'll stop merely taking what you provide and start beating you. [14:36]
chetty "US Central Command says up to 25,000 troops are being assembled for the Mosul campaign, to take on 1-2,000 ISIL fighters."//next notice to include specific deployment schedules and routes, never fear [14:37]
mircea_popescu paris police is regularly ordered to stand down from organised muslim crime. what exactly is so special about paris ? [14:37]
mircea_popescu all these dudes can just move to new york, rob banks. what's to stop them ? [14:37]
mircea_popescu the discussion is in the logs on this score. [14:37]
mircea_popescu chetty its because they [perhaps correctly] figure they need the outside reinforcement. [14:38]
mircea_popescu ie, why will this force do what we tell them to ? well... because thewy saw it on tv. [14:38]
chetty rofl [14:38]
mircea_popescu i've never seen nuttery on this level before. seriously, "soft politics" is one thing, "oh we're so good we control teh ppl with the media". [14:38]
mircea_popescu applied in lieu of chain of command ? what are these people smoking! [14:39]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: simpler than that. [14:39]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: theory goes that no well-fed u.s. 400k-usd/yr academi demolitions expert or whatnot has the slightest desire to be king of the orcs [14:40]
asciilifeform because orcs [14:40]
mircea_popescu mircea_popescu> "everyone" knows academi has been hiring overtime. << these are all noobs. [14:40]
mircea_popescu think about it. GREEN mercenaries vs allah's host. [14:40]
asciilifeform green with infinite air support ? [14:41]
BingoBoingo think about it. GREEN mercenaries vs allah's host. << Don't forget the mercenaries that aren't green in the peshmerga who want their own state carved out of Turkey [14:41]
mircea_popescu somebody in the us ACTUALLY SET TO PAPER the thought that well, since they're noobs that's a strategic advantage, "nobody will be able to know they're not as described on tin, iraq/kurd" [14:41]
chetty green mercs, green commanders, micro management from on high = a sure fire recipe [14:42]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno how infinite that is. but "infinite" didn't help vietnam [14:42]
mircea_popescu chetty makes your skin crawl don't it. [14:42]
chetty it do, it do [14:42]
* asciilifeform not specialist, but remembers that vietnam had, e.g., leaf cover [14:42]
asciilifeform and good soviet support [14:42]
mircea_popescu o, im sure nobody is supporting the arabs o.O [14:43]
asciilifeform arabs or 'isis' [14:43]
asciilifeform iirc there's some disagreement among the arabs at large [14:43]
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mircea_popescu sure. [14:43]
asciilifeform unless i grossly misunderstand, it's not a 'us vs arabs' match, but a 'small faction of uppity orcs vs whole bunch of other folks incl. most of the neighbouring orcs' match. [14:44]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo yeah, but turkey's an ally in this campaign o.O [14:44]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i would say that's a gross misrepresentation. [14:44]
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mircea_popescu it's a "us vs one of the football teams of the Y. they do nominally vie for supremacy. they do not in the slightest mind any one team take the world cup" [14:45]
mircea_popescu it's like a rite of passage, for arabs, pissing on the great satan. whoever does it best is just more respectable, is all. [14:45]
mats i don't believe the kurds will actually fight inside mosul [14:47]
mircea_popescu i don't see it either. [14:48]
mircea_popescu but as a kind-of minor point. what fucking kurds. [14:48]
BingoBoingo i don't believe the kurds will actually fight inside mosul << There's a time and place the Kurds will fight, but first the need to go through the motions of leveraging all of the phree stuff they can from Obola [14:49]
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mats BingoBoingo: i believe the kurds will be on the outskirts of mosul, pulling security [14:50]
mircea_popescu what i'd like to see is what the fuck "humint" provided the 1-2k figure is all. [14:50]
mats as i understand it, they don't want to wade into shia sunni violence and catch some political fallout in the process [14:50]
mircea_popescu sadly i don't see too well inside teh golden crescent. no real interest for me there. [14:51]
BingoBoingo mats: Here prolly. Give it a decade or two. The Mujahadeen didn't become Al Queda until Osama needed to handle pensions. [14:51]
mircea_popescu that's an interesting point. [14:52]
BingoBoingo Right now the talking heads in the media keep talking about how we need to arm the Kurds further, and how far we are from fulfilling their requests in total. [14:54]
mircea_popescu lawl. [14:54]
mircea_popescu oh gods i am so thankful to have been born in the first ever Age of Comedy [14:54]
mircea_popescu no golden age before is worth all of this golden lulz. [14:54]
mats help help i'm being oppressed [14:55]
thestringpuller except the golden age of comics [14:55]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo seriously, SERIOUSLY ? like... like... like soviet broadcasts in 1940 ? [14:55]
mircea_popescu about how hard teh ppl are workin to supply thje salvation army and what % quotas were supplied ? [14:55]
BingoBoingo I remember earlier this week some radio host talking about how Obama is only giving the Peshmerga 20 so Armoured personel carriers instead of the 120 som the Pershmerga needs [14:55]
mircea_popescu as if someone somewhere is actually busy putting mill to metal to "supply" the needs ? [14:56]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Seriously [14:56]
mircea_popescu hilarious. [14:56]
mircea_popescu Adlai: though combustion is not requires, vapor is also nice and would suffice << this guy so fried... [14:57]
mircea_popescu talkin' in verses n speakin' in rhymes [14:57]
BingoBoingo << Megalol, Companion loling >> [14:59]
assbot ELI5: Why is Amir Taaki important and why do some people dislike him. : Bitcoin ... ( ) [14:59]
assbot Bitcoiners find out what the "dark" in darkwallet means, try to justify it. : Buttcoin ... ( ) [14:59]
mircea_popescu someone post the immortal [15:00]
assbot Amir Taaki has done, and continues to do, huge disservice to anyone serious involved in Bitcoin. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [15:00]
BingoBoingo Well they got to the ancient first [15:01]
assbot Erotic chat by Skype ... ( ) [15:01]
mircea_popescu lol aite. [15:02]
mircea_popescu sa crew keeping the lid on him eh. [15:02]
BingoBoingo Yeah. Not with the Amir is incompetent angle, but the Amir is a perv angle [15:04]
mircea_popescu chetty: how they gonna train kids for things that haven't been invented yet? << maybe give up on the trainin' ? the greeks had the same problem, had solution : music, sport, grammar and logic. and fuck them. [15:04]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i take it back, they prolly know the material, let 'em manage it. i can't be arsed to follow amir. whoever does, can call the shots. [15:05]
mircea_popescu << ayup. [15:06]
assbot Logged on 21-02-2015 12:01:22; cazalla: something is very fucking wrong when my broke ass opa who couldn't speak a word of fucking english managed to get a job in the steel works and pay off a house in 2 decades and raise 6 kids in the 1950s... not even 2 adults working with 1 kid can do that today here [15:06]
BingoBoingo Inflation [15:07]
mircea_popescu nono, "easing' [15:07]
BingoBoingo sorry, relaxing and lubricaing [15:09]
mircea_popescu cazalla: sometimes i wish i never found this place, i wouldn;t know any fucking better, could've kept towing the line that this is how it's to be << famous words. [15:10]
fluffypony QUANTITATIVE easing [15:10]
fluffypony because that word makes it sound better [15:10]
mircea_popescu im bashing the shit outta cazalla lol. [15:10]
mircea_popescu fluffypony it has the crisp feel of SCIENCE [15:10]
fluffypony exactly [15:10]
fluffypony "scientists say quantitative easing is BETTER" [15:11]
mircea_popescu "give us your quality of life, have some quantity of stupid instead!" [15:11]
fluffypony "it's better because easing, like it makes your life easier" [15:11]
mircea_popescu "like remember that time you cut yourt cock off ? how easier peeing became ?" [15:11]
asciilifeform dulap!! [15:12]
mircea_popescu lmao [15:12]
mircea_popescu cazalla: such conflict << conflict is the stuff of life, man. an' how one resolves conflicts is what separates teh men from teh... [15:13]
mircea_popescu well whatever. [15:13]
mircea_popescu so im getting this supplier to invoice me in bitcoin, and they've been working on it, making their own btc accounting software an errything. [15:14]
mircea_popescu overnight, i get an email invoice 20 times. clearly, progress. [15:15]
mircea_popescu "cazalla: and the result? oh you are oppositional defiant, you have a conduct disorder" << waiot wut ?! how old are you after all [15:16]
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mircea_popescu "oppositional defiant", the "disorder" of "we suck" [15:17]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: you gotta remember Australia is a pioneer is "social sciences" ESL retardations. They pioneer these things for USia and Lower Britain. [15:18]
mircea_popescu nuts. [15:18]
mircea_popescu so organised oppression of the 10% leadership ? very fucking smart. [15:19]
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BingoBoingo Australia kind of led the way in developing "Outrage Fatigue" [15:23]
mircea_popescu !up Asenath [15:23]
-assbot- You voiced Asenath for 30 minutes. [15:23]
* assbot gives voice to Asenath [15:23]
mircea_popescu i had no idea. [15:23]
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ben_vulpes asciilifeform: "not under any circumstances payable in cash" << you live in the weirdest bubble. [15:40]
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Adlai "scientists say quantitative easing is BETTER" << "turn your economy around with this one weird trick!", "anarchists HATE him!" [15:44]
Apocalyptic lol [15:45]
Adlai +mircea_popescu | talkin' in verses n speakin' in rhymes << it's just [15:45]
assbot xkcd: With Apologies to Robert Frost ... ( ) [15:45]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: absentee landlord on opposite coast [15:46]
ben_vulpes << shitgnomes. [15:46]
assbot Unsigned kexts cannot be used on 10.10 · Issue #31164 · Homebrew/homebrew · GitHub ... ( ) [15:46]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: deposit directly into their bank account? [15:46]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: cash ? [15:47]
ben_vulpes sure, why not [15:47]
ben_vulpes that what you were going on about [15:47]
asciilifeform can do this at bank ? [15:47]
asciilifeform let's say you could. how do you prove you paid ? [15:48]
ben_vulpes (and re unsigned kexts: it's shitgnomes on shitgnomes. os x no longer runs unsigned kexts, the solution for which is to...distribute binaries) [15:48]
mats counter deposit receipt [15:48]
ben_vulpes receipt, trust. [15:48]
Adlai tlsnotary! [15:49]
Adlai which is basically "receipt", since you're still trusting the bank [15:49]
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Apocalyptic can do this at bank ? // that's the preferred way to trade at -otc [15:51]
Apocalyptic apparently at Chase you can no longer deposit into accounts you're not the holder of, but at other banks presumably this still works [15:52]
ben_vulpes that's rich. [15:52]
ben_vulpes the window is closing. [15:52]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i'm not saying you won't *be* right, but in your quest to get out in front of how the world will be you're not looking at how the world is. [15:53]
ben_vulpes "doom gloom, the fascists know all" attitude keeps you doing what they want. [15:53]
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Adlai a sufficiently paranoid populace needs no persecution [15:56]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: goes deeper than my superficial explanation suggests. i was really on about the difficulty of 'bitcoinizing' fundamentally fiat-wot-based business arrangements [15:58]
asciilifeform that is, say i had landlord who is paid in cash, and he decides that months's bag of money 'never happend' [15:58]
asciilifeform then what [15:58]
ben_vulpes sure. i'll read more thoroughly next time i'm a thousand lines behind. [15:58]
ben_vulpes granted, a problem. [15:59]
asciilifeform it works if we were both, say, italians, where 'it isn't done', or if i were part of an ethonmafia that will cause him problems in the event of raw deal [15:59]
asciilifeform but neither applies [15:59]
ben_vulpes but one of the wot, no? [15:59]
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mircea_popescu let's say you could. how do you prove you paid ? << don't be silly, this is a triviality. [15:59]
asciilifeform *ethnomafia [15:59]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: every problem is a triviality to folks who can't even conceive of having it [16:01]
asciilifeform on account of weight class [16:01]
mircea_popescu but the notion that you can't make payments... i mean ? just too weird. [16:01]
mircea_popescu you do get a receipt for the txn [16:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you probably knew this, but large (how large is 'large' varies based on the day's 'terrorism thermometer') cash tx in u.s. banks require id and are reported [16:02]
mircea_popescu well yes. [16:02]
asciilifeform so that defeats the purpose of the exercise of using cash. [16:03]
asciilifeform as was meant to [16:03]
mircea_popescu it won't be possible for you to anonymously send cash to some guy you don't know. necessarily. [16:03]
mircea_popescu but you are, phyusically, using the cahs. [16:03]
punkman I've never paid rent not in cash :P [16:03]
asciilifeform then same as cutting a cheque [16:03]
asciilifeform or sending a wire [16:03]
mircea_popescu see, you're equivocating. one purpose of using cash is anonymity. ANOTHER pourpose is to just get rid of the plutonium crate. [16:03]
mircea_popescu these aren't the same. [16:03]
asciilifeform in that 'usg knows you had $xxxx that day in your pocket' [16:03]
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asciilifeform 'get rid of' in the sense of 'make use of without giving half of it to usg' [16:04]
mircea_popescu exactl.y [16:04]
asciilifeform or getting on lists [16:04]
mircea_popescu ah, well, there's more angles to the problem. you need a good tax attorney, a llc structure, etc etc. [16:04]
asciilifeform suddenly it costs $100k to move $100k [16:04]
asciilifeform what if you only have 10. [16:04]
mircea_popescu no, it costs 100k to have the infrastructure in place. [16:05]
mircea_popescu like you know ddr2 ? must meet min speed ? [16:05]
asciilifeform granted. [16:05]
asciilifeform but everyone already knew that the problem, after a certain scale, is solvable [16:05]
mircea_popescu investing in this infrastructure is 3 or more degrees of magnitude more valuable than investing in college for you your kid your slave your dog. [16:05]
mircea_popescu yet MILLIONS do the latter. do not tell me it is impossible. [16:05]
mircea_popescu it is unwilled, but that is entirely for silly reasons. [16:05]
asciilifeform millions do the latter << heavily subsidized by usg [16:06]
mircea_popescu nevertheless. [16:06]
asciilifeform for instance, i pay ~1.5x - 2x per sq. metre of housing than my colleagues [16:06]
asciilifeform on account of rent not being a tax-deductible item in usa [16:06]
mircea_popescu it is in fact a rehash of the "i can't run bitcoin on linux because i have windows" [16:06]
asciilifeform (while debt slavery - is) [16:06]
mircea_popescu buy a corp with debt., [16:06]
mircea_popescu rent as the corp. [16:06]
asciilifeform this is a 'must be this tall to play' affair, as described above [16:07]
asciilifeform need the infrastructure [16:07]
mircea_popescu yes. like not running windows, it's a "this tall to play" affair. [16:07]
mircea_popescu you will notice that we fall on this matter as follows : you're significantly more stringent than me on one score, and significantly laxer than me on the other. [16:07]
asciilifeform except that linux is free (yeah, aha, 'if your time has no value' - well guess what, mine - didn't - as a student) [16:08]
mircea_popescu this alone should be prima facie evidence i'm actually right. [16:08]
asciilifeform hmm? [16:08]
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mircea_popescu not clear ? [16:09]
asciilifeform afraid not [16:09]
asciilifeform so far i don't disagree - the problem i described could indeed be magicked away entirely and semi-permanently by judicious application of ~100k usd [16:10]
mircea_popescu person presents with complaint "i can not correctly use bitcoin because im on windows". on a scale of -10 to +10, where -10 is "that's ok, you shoulsd use windows" and 10 is "fuck you get off windows anywhay right now no mattert the cost" you average about a -8, i about a -1 [16:10]
[]bot Bet created: "CLAM losing grip -> sells 0.0029 or lower before April 25th" [16:10]
mircea_popescu other person presents with complaint "i can not correctly use bitcoin because i'm on bezzle". you average +8, i average the same -1. [16:10]
mircea_popescu this divergence suggests you're wrong. [16:10]
mircea_popescu s/-1/+1/ apparently numbers are hard and signs harder. [16:11]
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asciilifeform see, linux is free if you had the upbringing, but 100k might as well be 100kg of plutonium as far as i'm concerned [16:12]
mircea_popescu you are mixing concepts. [16:12]
asciilifeform hence the difference [16:12]
mircea_popescu how convenient something is can not be a part of discussing what to do [16:12]
mircea_popescu it can only be considered once what to do is established, and the discussion moves on to how to do it. [16:12]
* badon_ is now known as badon [16:12]
asciilifeform how physically feasible something is, must be included [16:12]
mircea_popescu just as long as it's not a re-dressed convenience argument. [16:12]
mircea_popescu there's no physics law against sanity, yet. [16:13]
asciilifeform what'd be the 'sanity' ? [16:13]
mircea_popescu obviously, i'm a great student of the mouse school of jar handling. [16:14]
asciilifeform if it costs 100k to be let out of asylum and not have the thorazine injected daily, should we still think of the sanity in the usual sense of the word ? [16:14]
mircea_popescu well nao, i'll have to think about that. [16:15]
* asciilifeform is one of the numerous mice on parade here in #b-a who go 'thchwack' against the glass daily [16:15]
mircea_popescu this is true. [16:15]
asciilifeform but to tell mouse that there is no glass, and it is only a figment of his perceptions, is an odd thing imho [16:16]
mircea_popescu well this case more closely resembles teh trained electric fence thing [16:17]
asciilifeform or to tell him that in the garden shed where his jar stands, in a toolchest there is a glass-cutter. [16:17]
mircea_popescu haha pretty good [16:17]
mircea_popescu but i still dun think it's a fair eval. [16:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27577 @ 0.00039825 = 10.9825 BTC [+] {2} [16:22]
asciilifeform the mouse is a perfect analogy here, because his efforts at glass-breaking are not in any way cumulative [16:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23503 @ 0.00038325 = 9.0075 BTC [-] [16:27]
asciilifeform he'd have to live for ten thousand years in the jar to make so much as a visible mark in the glass. [16:27]
chetty but from the outside he could get the glass cutter and do some damage :P [16:32]
asciilifeform with teleporter ? [16:34]
Adlai ... and the jar's floor is a treadmill, each shelf's mills singing a parallel circuit to power the shed's dingy incandescent [16:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20500 @ 0.00037076 = 7.6006 BTC [-] [16:39]
thestringpuller fucking uncle sam wanting more and more taxes [16:42]
thestringpuller i realize paying taxes is so futile with our insatiable defecit [16:42]
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thestringpuller letz borrow monies 4 gunz plz [16:42]
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asciilifeform cazalla: no, but the cost of electricity, gas and others under the idea of global warming and taxes [and rest of that thread] << if it makes ya feel better - far worse in usa. i, for instance, know for a fact that i will never own any lands here. [16:55]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: in other news, i got netbsd ramdisk to build. [16:57]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6, jurov, mircea_popescu, et al ^^^ [16:57]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00037229 = 9.754 BTC [+] [17:00]
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ben_vulpes asciilifeform: neat! [17:23]
ben_vulpes for the ignoramuses like myself, how does the ramdisk figure into the pop project? [17:23]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: [17:25]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2015 17:53:11; ascii_field: danielpbarron: at present time there is no support whatoever for the eeprom in netbsd. this means that it can be used, but only if the userland (yes, all of it) is baked into a ramdisk baked into the kernel (which in turn is loaded by uboot in one shot at powerup) [17:25]
asciilifeform [17:25]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2015 17:53:43; ascii_field: danielpbarron: the netbsd kernel and userland are sufficiently compact (vs linux) to make this a worthwhile exercise [17:25]
ben_vulpes ah so whole os running out of ram? loaded shot at boot. [17:26]
asciilifeform aha [17:26]
asciilifeform this is SOP on very cheap routers with minimal, low-endurance eeprom [17:26]
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* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [17:27]
nubbins` re: logs [17:27]
asciilifeform it is also a good approach because it forces all the crud to be expunged with hot iron [17:27]
nubbins` why do i get the impression that nobody wants to exit the hamster cage because the wheel and watering tube are really nice and convenient? [17:28]
ben_vulpes omg this channel is the most educational thing in my life [17:28]
nubbins` o.O [17:28]
nubbins` "i really wanna lose weight, but big macs are just so good and i gotta have 10 a day" [17:28]
nubbins` bunch of guys so wrapped up in bezzle trappings that they don't realize their cage door is wide open [17:29]
ben_vulpes yes i'm an idiot [17:29]
ben_vulpes i started a company [17:29]
ben_vulpes i now have obligations [17:30]
ben_vulpes da woist [17:30]
asciilifeform nubbins`: analogy fall apart easily enough if nudged: you can readily tell the glutton what he would have to do if he were to seize hold of himself and climb out of his fat with iron will [17:30]
asciilifeform nubbins`: why dontcha try telling us condemned fools the equivalent [17:30]
asciilifeform glutton: 'eat 1/10th, take up hard training' [17:30]
* asciilifeform , ben_vulpes, et al: ??? [17:31]
nubbins` i don't /really/ think i need to tell you guys that tears are a necessary ingredient to un-fucking your situations [17:31]
kakobrekla nubbins` local pain minimum [17:31]
asciilifeform nubbins`: sure, but -what kind- of tears [17:31]
nubbins` fierce, bitter tears. as opposed to a dull, prolonged weeping. [17:31]
asciilifeform ^ zero information here [17:32]
ben_vulpes the only thing i can think to do is accumulate capital. [17:32]
asciilifeform what's the equivalent of the 'stop gluttony and exercise' here [17:32]
ben_vulpes "rocket" [17:32]
asciilifeform ^ [17:32]
nubbins` asciilifeform: stop waste and save. [17:32]
asciilifeform but nubbins` is implying that rocket is unnecessary if iron will [17:32]
nubbins` sounds blithe, no? [17:32]
ben_vulpes move to argentina and do webdev remotely. [17:32]
asciilifeform nubbins`: this requires something to save and some waste to cut [17:33]
ben_vulpes now *that*s tears. [17:33]
nubbins` asciilifeform that's where the tears come in [17:33]
kakobrekla seems to me destination is getting further and further away also [17:33]
nubbins` you know i took a ninety per cent pay cut two years ago? [17:33]
asciilifeform nubbins`: elementary fact is that i can only keep my wot obligations (s.nsa) if i have present level of equipment and time [17:33]
asciilifeform and fiat income [17:33]
kakobrekla thats his excuse now. [17:34]
nubbins` i ^ [17:34]
nubbins` unless you're leasing said equipment, don't you already have it? [17:34]
asciilifeform the most costly piece of equipment is time. [17:35]
nubbins` just so it's not glossed over, i said earlier that i took a 90% pay cut in 2013 [17:35]
nubbins` and someone with a link to the stats can take a stab at how much time i spend dicking around on irc [17:35]
nubbins` how do you suppose i can manage this? [17:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6897 @ 0.00037983 = 2.6197 BTC [+] [17:36]
asciilifeform nubbins`: now that part's very easy, you don't need blocks of time to dick on irc [17:36]
asciilifeform a few seconds here and there are enough [17:36]
nubbins` sure. [17:36]
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nubbins` consider the statement suitably modified [17:37]
nubbins` but what i'm saying is that while cutting one's income from a gross of ~$60k to a net of ~$6k necessarily involves severe lifestyle changes [17:38]
asciilifeform depends where 6k [17:38]
nubbins` it's not at all the grim spectre that all you guys think it is. [17:38]
nubbins` location? [17:38]
nubbins` my home cost just under a quarter-million for reference. [17:39]
asciilifeform 6k/yr probably buys you a harem in, e.g., zimbabwe [17:39]
asciilifeform nubbins`: lol! 6k would not even pay the tax on such a thing here. [17:39]
nubbins` net 6k, i said 8) [17:39]
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asciilifeform canuckistan ? [17:39]
nubbins` yeah, the socialist paradise. i get hit by a car, they fix me for free [17:40]
nubbins` anyway, i fill two empty bedrooms with like-minded individuals with schedules that suit me [17:40]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i pay ~700 usd/mo just for some distant approximation of that [17:40]
nubbins` mortgage: paid. [17:40]
nubbins` my wife and i collectively have to scrounge together about $400 per month to keep this house going [17:41]
nubbins` that's two hundred bucks each, per month. $7 a day. [17:41]
asciilifeform nubbins`: neat [17:42]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [17:42]
nubbins` i used to make that in 13 minutes at my old job [17:42]
nubbins` now it takes me a bit longer [17:42]
asciilifeform nubbins`: but to imply that everyone who is not in your position is necessarily a spendthrift who would be a winner but for the 'fatlogic' - is disingenuous [17:42]
decimation can do this at bank ? // that's the preferred way to trade at -otc < yes, most us banks will let you deposit anything into one of their accounts, no questions asked [17:42]
nubbins` but y'know what? i don't have to lie in bed every morning wondering whether i'll call in sick [17:42]
decimation for obvious reasons [17:43]
nubbins` asciilifeform far be it from me to say this is a cure-all [17:43]
asciilifeform decimation: i can believe this. but then you lose what small protection was provided by the fiat wot [17:43]
nubbins` all i'm saying is that one can surprise oneself [17:43]
asciilifeform decimation: as in, ability to prove that you paid [17:43]
decimation well, you can get a deposit receipt from the bank [17:43]
asciilifeform decimation: aha. then usg also has receipt [17:43]
asciilifeform decimation: see the clincher ? [17:43]
ben_vulpes and that's not a wot, that's a system. [17:43]
decimation yes, but not your identity [17:44]
ben_vulpes you're not using the wot unless you're trusting your counterparty. [17:44]
decimation although it was a large cash transaction I'm sure it would inspire a degree of interest [17:44]
nubbins` asciilifeform i sort of gloss over the fact that years of reading "mother earth news" before taking the plunge took most of the edge off it [17:44]
nubbins` but hey [17:44]
nubbins` what's a young anti-consumerist to do ;/ [17:44]
decimation banking at any bank is banking with usg [17:44]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, decimation: the point that i was trying - and failing - to make, was that a fundamentally fiat-based business arrangement like renting a house from a fella on opposite end of continent who you've never met and never expect to meet, cannot be 'bitcoinized' in the sense of turning you loose from usg financial jail [17:45]
nubbins` ^ [17:45]
nubbins` bitcoin all the things [17:46]
ben_vulpes well duh it can't be bitcoinized - you don't know him and so cannot trust him. [17:46]
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asciilifeform as for the inevitable question of what i must be smoking to have done this at all - it's a consequence of the geography in which i'm trapped (a handful of houses advertised for rent in my price range at any given moment - if that; the most tilted 'seller's market' one could imagine) [17:46]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes has it [17:47]
decimation yeah it could be bitcoinized only in the special case that he is in your wot [17:47]
nubbins` ascii where's here, anyway [17:47]
decimation even if he was, the landlord has to pay his expenses in usd [17:47]
asciilifeform nubbins`: wash., d.c. region; usa. [17:47]
nubbins` o, fun [17:47]
nubbins` i guess? [17:47]
asciilifeform nubbins`: lol [17:47]
asciilifeform very 'fun' [17:47]
nubbins` heart of the beast [17:48]
asciilifeform nubbins`: literally 20 min. away from the classical nsa [17:48]
nubbins` i heard it smells like brimstone there [17:48]
asciilifeform more like the festering hell in 'hellraiser' than the traditional one [17:48]
ben_vulpes concrete and cars everywhere [17:51]
asciilifeform well, not here [17:51]
* asciilifeform does not live in the city limits [17:51]
asciilifeform closer to university of md. [17:51]
ben_vulpes classic 'suburbs'? [17:51]
asciilifeform aha [17:51]
asciilifeform funnily enough, mostly bolivia, salvador, argentina folks here. [17:52]
ben_vulpes dead end streets and all? [17:52]
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ben_vulpes interesting. [17:52]
ben_vulpes why would that be? [17:52]
asciilifeform self-fulfilling-loop involving prices [17:52]
nubbins` well, if nothing else, i get the scarce rental market thing [17:53]
punkman asciilifeform: if punkman had factory in china, would you come rent floor space in bitcoin? [17:53]
nubbins` this place was below 1% vacancy for quite a time [17:53]
decimation yeah northeast dc is overrun with salvadorians [17:53]
* ben_vulpes did not parse the loop construct [17:53]
nubbins` my last rental before purchasing had -- literally -- a mold room [17:53]
asciilifeform punkman: if i had an income denominated in btc, sure [17:53]
* decimation once went to the guatamala v. salvador match in rfk stadium - the entire place was full to the rafters [17:54]
punkman asciilifeform: well you'd have to move, so no more usd job [17:54]
asciilifeform punkman: i ain't breathing vacuum [17:54]
asciilifeform nubbins`: scarce rental market thing << you don't know half of it. virtually unheard of to rent a house here, other than by gigantic groups of immigrants or students living like sardines in can [17:55]
decimation actually in most 'modern' us developments it is against the hoa rules to have more than one family - sometimes even roommates - living there [17:55]
asciilifeform decimation: aha. this contributes to the scarcity of the overall market [17:56]
asciilifeform because individual renting house is almost entirely unheard of [17:56]
asciilifeform so i pay a 'weirdo tax' [17:56]
asciilifeform as does anybody who does a 'crazy' thing for which the market is ultra-thin [17:56]
decimation actually there are plenty of single-payer rentals around your area [17:56]
decimation they just pay with usg fiat [17:56]
asciilifeform well yes [17:56]
asciilifeform everybody pays with fiat [17:57]
decimation I mean usg housing allowance [17:57]
asciilifeform for free-standing building ? [17:57]
decimation oh yeah [17:57]
asciilifeform not so common [17:57]
decimation read this and be amazed [17:57]
decimation [17:57]
assbot 2015 D.C. BAH (Basic Allowance Housing) Rates by MHA | Military Benefits ... ( ) [17:57]
asciilifeform aha army officers [17:57]
decimation not just officers [17:58]
decimation even a lowly E-1 rates $2140 per month with dependents [17:58]
decimation as you can imagine, this sets a 'floor' in the market [17:58]
asciilifeform and then mircea_popescu asks why these folks don't buy one way tickets and join 'isis' [17:58]
asciilifeform because wtf, why. [17:58]
asciilifeform they're rolling in the dough. [17:59]
decimation I had a friend in the wash dc area that calculated an O3 officer (roughly BS degree plus 5 years experience) makes about $140k in wash dc [17:59]
asciilifeform no great surprise. [17:59]
ben_vulpes i imagine most of that gets hoovered into rentier pockets. [18:00]
asciilifeform this doesn't include private 'consulting' gigs, also, which many of these folks take part in [18:00]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: of course it does [18:00]
decimation ben_vulpes: yes, the deal with the housing is this: you get the full amount I quoted tax free [18:01]
decimation whatever you don't spend on housing you pocket [18:01]
asciilifeform ! [18:01]
ben_vulpes rightous. [18:01]
ben_vulpes righteous* [18:01]
decimation unless you live on base, in which case you get nothing [18:01]
asciilifeform this actually explains quite a bit [18:02]
decimation maybe mats can confirm if he's around [18:02]
mats you get paid to live off base if you're E-5 [18:02]
decimation the whole business works out to be a backdoor gov't subsidy for the real estate bezzle near bases [18:02]
mats folks are encouraged to get married so they can eat fo free [18:03]
mats BAH for E-5 iirc is like... 35k alone? [18:03]
mats (basic allowance for housing) [18:03]
mats might be 20, i never made it to E-5. [18:03]
asciilifeform decimation: iirc, usg also automatically buys the house at bezzle-planned rate if you get relocation orders [18:03]
asciilifeform further propping up the faux market [18:03]
decimation $2286 per month for e5 with family [18:03]
decimation yes that's a separate program, but they will buy your house at 'prevailing rates' [18:04]
decimation and cover closing costs I think [18:04]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: buys house they're moving out of or moving into? [18:04]
decimation moving out [18:04]
mats being an ossifer is good shit if you can live with the job [18:04]
asciilifeform out [18:04]
ben_vulpes waat [18:04]
ben_vulpes w-w-why [18:04]
asciilifeform because they move you [18:04]
decimation now, I think there are well over 200k of military in your area ascii [18:04]
decimation so imagine what that alone does to the local real estate bezzle... [18:05]
ben_vulpes oh wait the subsidy is for your *mortgage* not your *rent* [18:05]
asciilifeform decimation: not only ordinary ones, but heavy on brass [18:05]
decimation yeah that's roughly 1/2 to one billion $ per year in your area alone, usg paid rent [18:06]
asciilifeform then factor in the 'white men need not apply' subsidized housing from the other half of usg [18:06]
asciilifeform and what's left is a very thin slice. [18:06]
decimation yes, the section 8-A rent subsidy too [18:06]
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decimation well, the better way to think about it is that there are well over $1 bil bidding up the prices [18:08]
asciilifeform aha [18:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00040309 = 3.3053 BTC [+] [18:08]
decimation and that's before you count anyone who is trying to live on salary from an employer [18:08]
asciilifeform plus the $xxx bil of tax deduction subsidies for the mortgage racket as a class [18:08]
asciilifeform (which renters get none whatsoever of) [18:09]
decimation yes, that's a massive real estate scam [18:09]
decimation the bottom line is that all of this inflates the real estate asset bubble [18:09]
decimation which can levitate to whatever degree usg chooses, as long as it keeps these pipes flowing [18:09]
decimation asciilifeform: do you have a favorite 'static code analysis' tool? or do you eschew all such automation in favor of 'fits in head'? [18:11]
asciilifeform decimation: code analysis ? [18:11]
asciilifeform as in 'lint' ? [18:11]
decimation for instance, you mentioned the 'cert c' standard yesterday [18:11]
decimation I think there are tools sold to evaluate compliance with that standard [18:11]
asciilifeform that thing was largely about how to write (or, more correctly, -not to write-) in the first place [18:11]
asciilifeform and yes, there are such things. i have no personal experience with them. [18:12]
decimation it seems with a pl like ada, it mostly comes 'built-in' [18:12]
asciilifeform aha [18:12]
asciilifeform built in to a degree that folks who have never seen it, cannot possibly apprehend. [18:12]
asciilifeform this is why the 'safe c' experiments never really went anywhere [18:13]
asciilifeform because that market is already thoroughly owned by the ada folks [18:13]
decimation yeah it seems like a waste of time trying to turn the c-dialect of algol into the ada dialect [18:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49132 @ 0.00040309 = 19.8046 BTC [+] [18:13]
asciilifeform decimation: notice how 'cyclone' never remotely caught on, etc [18:14]
asciilifeform because the fate of ugly chimeras is to sit in a circus [18:14]
asciilifeform not on the street near respectable people [18:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22968 @ 0.0004037 = 9.2722 BTC [+] {2} [18:14]
decimation asciilifeform: speaking of which: [18:15]
assbot sellout/CL-LLVM · GitHub ... ( ) [18:15]
asciilifeform ^ mega-lol [18:15]
decimation asciilifeform: or this < it's a 'formally verified' C compiler [18:16]
assbot CompCert - Main page ... ( ) [18:16]
decimation I downloaded and used, and found it immediately failed to compile anything that included gnu C extensions [18:17]
asciilifeform decimation: i honestly can't say i'm at all interested in 'formally verified' proggy [18:17]
asciilifeform (to learn why - see log) [18:17]
asciilifeform even if it worked. [18:17]
* OneNomos has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [18:17]
asciilifeform unlike ada, it is not actually possible to program in c -as standardized- [18:17]
decimation yeah I have read. what I don't understand is why anyone would think that the compiler is the weak link in the C software stack [18:17]
asciilifeform because ken thompson [18:18]
decimation ah, he's one of the new jersey folks? [18:18]
asciilifeform everyone obsesses over 'sexy' traps while ignoring rusty old spikes that are everywhere [18:18]
asciilifeform decimation: 'reflections on trusting trust' [18:18]
asciilifeform !s trusting trust [18:19]
assbot 10 results for 'trusting trust' : [18:19]
cazalla i think i need a keyboard fitted with a breathalyzer [18:19]
decimation yeah you have linked before [18:19]
asciilifeform one of the most well-known experiments in the entire field [18:19]
asciilifeform i was genuinely floored when learned for the fist time that there are folks using a computer who have never so much as vaguely heard of it [18:19]
decimation well, certainly it could be the case that the compiler is untrustworthy, but much higher on my list of concerns is that some combination of new-jersey syscalls I'm using in my code will stab me in the back [18:21]
asciilifeform ^ [18:21]
asciilifeform almost guaranteed. [18:21]
decimation also the link that ben_vulpes dropped about feynman working at thinking machines was interesting. I didn't know he worked there [18:24]
asciilifeform it was his 'last hurrah' [18:24]
asciilifeform but iirc all that is publicly known about his work there, is in that piece. [18:24]
decimation yeah, it sounded to me like he was mostly helping to 'sell' the machines to academic types [18:24]
decimation as in 'sales engineer' [18:25]
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asciilifeform iirc not a single such machine sold to anyone but usg or a directly usg-funded org. [18:25]
asciilifeform consider also that the 'connection machine' was not usable at all except as an expansion plug-in to a symbolics lispm [18:25]
asciilifeform yes, plugged into a jack in the back [18:26]
decimation heh that's amusing [18:26]
danielpbarron asciilifeform> danielpbarron: in other news, i got netbsd ramdisk to build. << yay! in related news, i got some links from a guy in #olimex who tackled this problem back in 2013; haven't checked it out yet / just got back from stocking up for the impending snow storm [18:27]
asciilifeform which problem [18:28]
danielpbarron the netbsd ramdisk thing [18:28]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: the trick is to run nbmake-evbarm from your TOOLS path, rather than nbmake [18:28]
asciilifeform this is not documented. [18:28]
asciilifeform then ramdisk gets built [18:29]
asciilifeform (the default one. still need to cut unnecessary crud from it) [18:29]
asciilifeform next problem is how to get it to automatically bake into the kernel .ub image during build. [18:29]
decimation lol apple "Beginning May 1, 2015, new Mac apps and app updates submitted to the Mac App Store may no longer use garbage collection, which was deprecated in OS X Mountain Lion." [18:30]
assbot Mac Apps That Use Garbage Collection Must Move to ARC - News and Updates - Apple Developer ... ( ) [18:30]
punkman [18:32]
assbot Accused British hacker, wanted for crimes in US, won’t give up crypto keys | Ars Technica ... ( ) [18:32]
nubbins` re: ramdisk awwwwww yeah! [18:38]
nubbins` asciilifeform this'll work on purple and blue units, yeah? [18:39]
asciilifeform nubbins`: in principle [18:39]
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asciilifeform nubbins`: i'll just have it probe (and if doesn't find blockchain, format) the largest mass storage device found at boot [18:40]
asciilifeform on whatever interface [18:40]
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asciilifeform in the purple unit, that'll necessarily be a usb drive [18:40]
* MobGod is now known as MobGod_ [18:41]
asciilifeform on black pogo4 (what i have) - sata [18:41]
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nubbins` nod [18:41]
* assbot gives voice to trinque [18:42]
ben_vulpes hola trinque [18:42]
asciilifeform incidentally [18:42]
asciilifeform there's no reason why we can't do an x86 build of this [18:42]
asciilifeform 'bitcoinbios' [18:42]
asciilifeform rom-able a la 'corebios' (formerly 'linuxbios') [18:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10382 @ 0.00041302 = 4.288 BTC [+] {3} [18:44]
danielpbarron s/black/purple/ they are both black; one has blue logo, other has purple logo, which is removed with the cap that covers sata port [18:44]
asciilifeform for some reason i thought the question was about the 'pink pogo' [18:45]
asciilifeform which has a somewhat different shape, and no sata port [18:45]
asciilifeform it also (curiously) costs more [18:45]
asciilifeform but is more widely available [18:46]
fluffypony decimation: I don't get what's lol about that, .NET faces the same issue (as have many high-level abstractions / languages), whereby trying to force GC collections or modify GC behaviour invariably ends up being messy. Frankly, handing off to a reference counting system is way, way better than GC bullshit. [18:47]
fluffypony also their transition doc has a 2013 timestamp, so if developers have taken 2 years to cotton on to changes then wtf, they should choose a different career [18:48]
fluffypony API stability != complete API freeze forever, and the same goes for patterns and practices [18:48]
asciilifeform ahahaha no. [18:48]
asciilifeform fuck centrally imposed 'practices' [18:49]
fluffypony yes, let's all decentralise all of the things [18:49]
fluffypony fuck off [18:49]
asciilifeform i routinely build code from 20 yrs ago. [18:49]
asciilifeform and it runs. [18:49]
fluffypony you're amazing, asciilifeform [18:49]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [18:49]
fluffypony but your rhetoric is boring [18:49]
asciilifeform now it isn't on c/unix. that'd require magic tough [18:49]
fluffypony and your reliance on ancient is overdone [18:49]
fluffypony we get it [18:49]
fluffypony old is good, new is bad [18:50]
fluffypony but not all new is bad. [18:50]
fluffypony get over it. [18:50]
asciilifeform new can be a pleasure if done for some actual reason and not because a monkey changed the label on a knob [18:50]
asciilifeform requiring everyone to drop everything and 'get into compliance' [18:50]
fluffypony sure, GC -> ARC is changing the label on a knob [18:50]
fluffypony Apple is bad, Android is good [18:50]
fluffypony but GWBASIC is best. [18:50]
fluffypony etc. etc. [18:51]
asciilifeform gwbasic lol [18:51]
fluffypony the circlejerk gets old after a while [18:51]
asciilifeform android works in much the same way as apple's regime, iirc [18:51]
* asciilifeform not involved with either, cannot say for certain [18:51]
asciilifeform fluffypony: i can easily see how you might have arrived at this, but you must be ~111th one in a row to think that i like 'old' for sake of old [18:53]
fluffypony it was directed generally, not at you specifically [18:54]
asciilifeform but this is actually a popular hate mail subject [18:54]
fluffypony the rejection of every abstraction, every high-level language, simply because it makes things slightly easier [18:54]
fluffypony at the cost of X [18:54]
asciilifeform fluffypony: my particular favourite language (cl) is as high level as it gets. [18:54]
asciilifeform (short of chimeras in the vein of 'prolog' where anything you cook up is likely to be asking machine np-complete questions) [18:55]
punkman fluffypony: don't tell us you love systemd now :P [18:59]
fluffypony hah [19:00]
asciilifeform now, i get it, damn-near everybody is stuck in his particular gulag. fluffypony, it appears, is sitting in barrack where what-happens-in-apple-os-matters. i'm in one where they use weird zimbabwe money. etc. but being in jail doesn't mean you have to -like- it and deny the existence of outside. [19:01]
* fluffypony loves Zimbabwe [19:02]
fluffypony pity about their moneyh [19:02]
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decimation fluffypony: what about rhodesia? [19:08]
decimation my original 'lol' was because I see 'centrally imposed' memory management as worse than garbage collection [19:09]
decimation but it is understandable why apple would want it on their c-machines [19:09]
fluffypony my mum was born in the then-christened Rhodesia [19:09]
asciilifeform the 'centrally imposed' i was speaking of was the 'apple says -shit-, devs answer -what colour-' one [19:09]
fluffypony ah well [19:09]
* fluffypony mehs [19:10]
fluffypony Linux is centrally controlled [19:10]
decimation the kernel is, yes [19:10]
fluffypony Linux says -shit-, everyone answers -what colour- [19:10]
fluffypony yes [19:10]
decimation userland is trying to usurp it [19:10]
asciilifeform but how often linus commands 'shit' [19:10]
asciilifeform last time was in the 2.4 - 2.6 transition, really [19:10]
decimation he's getting kinda old and tired frankly [19:10]
fluffypony so Apple is saying -shit- about a language, and fuck, it's their language (inasmuch as they're the only ones still using it) [19:11]
danielpbarron my portugese speaking american samoan born connecticut raised friend apparently had an aunt that owned land in rodesia (phew what a mouth full) [19:11]
decimation fluffypony: apple has been pulling this kind of thing for decades [19:11]
fluffypony decimation: so it doesn't affect non-Apple-users [19:11]
decimation the world's greatest thing that solves all the problems becomes the 'deprecated feature' 3 years later [19:11]
fluffypony or non-Apple-developers [19:11]
fluffypony and the hate circlejerk is boring [19:11]
decimation fluffypony: well, no [19:11]
fluffypony hey I know, let's complain about how Coinbase is ruining Bitcoin with their centralisation! [19:12]
fluffypony that's not been done, right? [19:12]
asciilifeform l0l [19:12]
decimation it's an interesting specimen for folks to study [19:12]
fluffypony it's fucking boring [19:12]
asciilifeform fluffypony: the pill against coinbase is precisely the same as the one against apple: 'don't do it' [19:12]
fluffypony asciilifeform: precisely, but *everyone in this room already knows* [19:13]
fluffypony it becomes a circlejerk when "preaching to the choir" devolves, and here we are [19:14]
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ben_vulpes fluffypony: don't disturb the cult! [19:27]
ben_vulpes we must all sing in harmony. [19:27]
ben_vulpes shun the nonbeliever. [19:27]
* decimation wishes to shun nobody, but is somewhat mystified about how to discern between tidbits of data that relate to long-running discussions and 'boring' 'preaching to the choir' [19:30]
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ben_vulpes dude ruby what the ever loving fuck [19:47]
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ben_vulpes i am tempted to make a vm for this ruby project. [19:48]
ben_vulpes because seriously sudo install libs to system? [19:49]
ben_vulpes fuck off! [19:49]
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asciilifeform in other news, [19:50]
asciilifeform netbsd on pogo. [19:50]
asciilifeform with arbitrary whatever in ramdisk. [19:50]
mats [19:51]
assbot DevOps Bookmarks ... ( ) [19:51]
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danielpbarron i'm still trying to get that to work [19:53]
decimation asciilifeform: does this mean you installed on the pogo's nand flash? [19:55]
* nubbins` prepares to cheer [19:59]
nubbins` apple? best bsd box i ever owned [19:59]
* nubbins` cackles shrilly [19:59]
nubbins` hm [20:00]
nubbins` shrillishly? [20:00]
nubbins` shrillly definitely isn't right [20:00]
ben_vulpes neat, mats [20:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16597 @ 0.0004344 = 7.2097 BTC [+] [20:06]
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decimation jurov: < related [20:09]
assbot " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( ) [20:09]
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mats convention for fake food huh [20:10]
ben_vulpes decimation: thanks for the econtalk recommendation [20:11]
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decimation yeah, the next episode he interviews taleb on gmos [20:13]
decimation actually the cargill guy was not super-pro gmo [20:13]
decimation I didn't even know cargill was the biggest private company in the us [20:14]
decimation "Guest: One, we could feed the world without GMOs; there are other practices that we could follow. So the idea that we are prisoners of this technology I think is something that should be dispelled. On the other hand, I don't think we should try that. I think if our water is precious, if our topsoil is precious, if we really care about the hydrocarbon footprint that we have in terms of the amount of cultivation that we need to carry [20:14]
decimation out, that we should think very carefully about eliminating or demonizing genetic engineering." [20:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51111 @ 0.00043439 = 22.2021 BTC [-] {2} [20:16]
danielpbarron asciilifeform, is this the same documentation you've been looking at? -> [20:18]
assbot NetBSD Documentation: Porting NetBSD to a new ARM SoC ... ( ) [20:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2367 @ 0.00043127 = 1.0208 BTC [-] [20:21]
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ben_vulpes [] it's really not hard to block. but domestic isps = blockheads. << hurr durr [20:55]
mircea_popescu aha ? [20:59]
mircea_popescu you threatenin me ?! [20:59]
mircea_popescu in other news, car upskirt [21:00]
assbot ... ( ) [21:00]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: danielpbarron: in other news, i got netbsd ramdisk to build. << o hey wd. what was the catch ? [21:04]
mircea_popescu nubbins`: why do i get the impression [...] << because you're an asshole. just like me. [21:04]
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ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: just appreciating the pun [21:05]
mircea_popescu hehe [21:05]
mircea_popescu i need tp for my punhole. [21:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33800 @ 0.00045029 = 15.2198 BTC [+] [21:06]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: what's the equivalent of the 'stop gluttony and exercise' here << start dating whores. [21:08]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes: now *that*s tears. << i met a chick that quit her previous job, is learning to program in html nao. [21:09]
mircea_popescu but it's kinda complicated. [21:09]
mircea_popescu nubbins`: you know i took a ninety per cent pay cut two years ago? << you actually made money at some point ?! [21:09]
jurov mircea_popescu: with due respect, are you sure asciilifeform can attract any federal-level whore? [21:09]
mircea_popescu but this is a quantitative discussion and he was making a qualitative challenge [21:10]
mircea_popescu "what type of thing". [21:10]
jurov you too mentioned obama daughters and so explicitly [21:11]
mircea_popescu inasmuch as i understand it, his chief complaint was, "no criminal empire footprint". easiest way to get into that, from memory, is dating the whores. [21:11]
mircea_popescu most common, of course, is spending some time in jail, but hey. [21:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77500 @ 0.00047354 = 36.6994 BTC [+] {2} [21:13]
* jurov just remembered how it woks among fags. yes, mircea is right [21:14]
mircea_popescu nubbins`: what's a young anti-consumerist to do ;/ << shit look at that, "mother earth news" is actually a thing. [21:19]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: good for her? [21:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00047857 = 4.4028 BTC [+] [21:19]
ben_vulpes kinda curious about the complexity [21:19]
mircea_popescu you know, for a cult this chan is one of the most diverse places in the world. [21:19]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes direct quote. "but it's kinda complex" [21:20]
mircea_popescu i explained a little about the difference between imperative and notation, i think she got the gist. [21:20]
ben_vulpes hah yeah i mean you have to learn 3 different chodes at the same time [21:20]
ben_vulpes html, css and js [21:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19632 @ 0.00045846 = 9.0005 BTC [-] {2} [21:20]
mircea_popescu js is sort-of imperative i guess. [21:21]
mircea_popescu kinda like c pigdin neh ? [21:21]
mircea_popescu but otherwise the css/html difference is not unlike the "food division" and "detergent division" difference at unilever. [21:22]
mats [21:22]
assbot ... ( ) [21:22]
mircea_popescu not bad but why teh panties! [21:23]
mircea_popescu [21:23]
assbot ... ( ) [21:23]
ben_vulpes fish move [21:25]
* mats adds cattle prod to purchase list [21:25]
mircea_popescu stop objectifying women. [21:26]
mircea_popescu it's a cuntprod. [21:26]
ben_vulpes cunts are objects too [21:27]
thestringpuller that's hawt [21:27]
thestringpuller i can't stop watching this gif [21:27]
mats as a boy i found a guide for modifying a disposable camera into a single-use taser [21:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: this actually explains quite a bit << why did you think the pentagon spends so much. [21:28]
mats i used it on my buddy and he shit himself. one of my fonder memories of childhood. [21:28]
mircea_popescu mats the flash ? [21:28]
mats ever since, i've wanted to buy a taser, but modern things have tags now [21:28]
mats yeah [21:28]
mircea_popescu you can basically build a taser out of a battery and a capacitor [21:28]
mircea_popescu whioch means, "Any old tv set" [21:29]
ben_vulpes conveniently packaged in disposable cameras! [21:29]
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mats i've never given any thought to building one [21:29]
mircea_popescu mats: folks are encouraged to get married so they can eat fo free << which is how the dependopopotami are born. "i don't care about the chick but i gotta be married for money so w/e" [21:30]
mats although its a reasonable segue into building other toys ... like shock gloves for bum fights [21:30]
thestringpuller lol shock gloves! [21:30]
* mats adds it to the list [21:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44768 @ 0.00045846 = 20.5243 BTC [-] [21:30]
mircea_popescu [21:31]
assbot ... ( ) [21:31]
thestringpuller mats: [21:31]
mats ya i know [21:31]
mats i'm a fan [21:31]
thestringpuller mats: mah nigga [21:32]
mats i'm yellow on the outside and black on the inside [21:32]
thestringpuller Hahaha [21:32]
thestringpuller chocolate twinkie? [21:33]
mircea_popescu "tricare, formerly known as chump-us" [21:33]
mats i've been on the search my whole life for a proper descriptor [21:33]
mircea_popescu mats you mean yellow as in azn ? [21:33]
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mats yes. surprise! [21:33]
mircea_popescu do you agree with that fat fag's evaluation that no women ever date azns ? [21:34]
mats uh [21:34]
mats no [21:34]
mats certainly, asians are undersexualized in e.g. US media, but i haven't had problems picking up white women [21:35]
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mircea_popescu myeah. BUT HE HAD STATISTICS [21:35]
thestringpuller what's with the US and the pursuit of bwg (basic white girl)? [21:36]
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mircea_popescu thestringpuller if you look at the demos, it's the most common item on menu. [21:36]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: over there with all the brazillian hotties. [21:36]
mircea_popescu like salmon at the seafood restaurant [21:36]
thestringpuller most highly sexual girls I've met spoke portuguese as a first language [21:37]
mats i prefer 'bwg' over 'abg' (asian baby girl) [21:37]
mircea_popescu i think anyone under 55 or so does. [21:37]
mircea_popescu i don't think* [21:38]
mats !ud ABG [21:38]
mircea_popescu or wait. no, it was right the first time [21:38]
mats ;;ud ABG [21:39]
gribble | An acronym for an "aznbbygirl" meaning an asian female gangster. ABG's like to hang with gangsters and wear thin (slutty) clothing. They like to ju... [21:39]
thestringpuller aren't ABG's over sexualized? [21:39]
mircea_popescu gangster ?! [21:40]
mircea_popescu somebody was having a tough time in class. [21:40]
mats thestringpuller: hows that? [21:42]
mats maybe we're exposed to different media, but i don't see it [21:42]
thestringpuller ah, always thinking of the ABG's in high school/early college who would hang out with negros [21:43]
thestringpuller lots of make up, skimpy clothes [21:43]
thestringpuller "rumors" from the guys (note how I said "rumors") [21:44]
mircea_popescu aren't skimpy/no clothes mandatory in college anyway ? [21:45]
mats i mean, asian women are hypersexualized in p much the same way as black dudes in media [21:45]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: although it is the most common item on the menu, there is still some "allure" as a minority "banging one out" [21:46]
mats i've read a few things here and there about 'the white man's asian fetish' and 'the hyper-femininity of the asian woman' [21:46]
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mircea_popescu i dunno... i kinda aren't attracted to other types, by and large. i assume it's similar across cultures. [21:47]
thestringpuller i guess the media portrayal of the sorority bwg places a false imagination [21:49]
mircea_popescu where's this depicted in media ? [21:50]
thestringpuller << stuff like this [21:52]
mircea_popescu but this is specific softcore/exploitation. in comes in all color schemes neh ? [21:52]
mircea_popescu i guess for black girls it's mostly rap videos and derivative material. [21:53]
mircea_popescu grossed 30mn over a 5mn budget. not exactly a killer anyway. [21:53]
mircea_popescu "I cannot speak to the contents," he told Ars via online chat. "Except that they are mine. This is the only salient detail as far as I'm concerned. I am not on trial, nor is my data, and I am under no obligation to speak for it. But my property is being withheld from me, and that must be justified. The current justification is due to the inability of the NCA to understand certain data. It remains for them to establish [21:54]
mircea_popescu why this is my problem and for the court to decide if this gives them authority to convert chattel." [21:54]
mircea_popescu ha! this Lauri Love dude got it right. [21:55]
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mircea_popescu "As a matter of policy, we generally do not comment on extradition-related matters." [21:56]
mircea_popescu herp. as if fucking policy matters. [21:56]
mircea_popescu "as a matter of policy, we don't comment on rape cases" should be the new rape trial defense. [21:56]
mircea_popescu because POLICY. it's a reason now. [21:56]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: i guess for black girls it's mostly rap videos << hmm perhaps American media just blinds one to the broader cultural spectrum [21:56]
mircea_popescu "You have no idea how much we can fuck with the US government if we wanted to," Love told a hacking colleague in one exchange over Internet relay chat, prosecutors alleged. "This... stuff is really sensitive. It's basically every piece of information you'd need to do full identity theft on any employee or contractor" for the hacked agency. [21:57]
mircea_popescu this, for the record, is exactly correct. [21:57]
mircea_popescu any single usg employee's security, in all respects, continues at the MERCY of unidentified party. in no sense and in no manner does it flow from usg-anything. [21:57]
mircea_popescu you're still there, your house is still there, your family is still there because we can't be bothered to take them away. that's all. [21:57]
mircea_popescu fluffypony: Frankly, handing off to a reference counting system <<< "One day a student came to Moon and said: I understand how to make a better garbage collector. We must keep a reference count of the pointers to each cons. Moon patiently told the student the following story: One day a student came to Moon and said: I understand how to make a better garbage collector..." [22:01]
mircea_popescu but sure, it'd be great if it worked. [22:02]
mircea_popescu wow lol, that log bit got pretty intense huh. [22:03]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: now, i get it, damn-near everybody is stuck in his particular gulag. << hey, you made your bed for yourself here :D lie in it! he can't get out because he can't get out, what more do you want ? :D [22:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: but how often linus commands 'shit' << an argument of an entirely different consistency hehehe [22:06]
mircea_popescu man i miss out on the best logs. [22:06]
mircea_popescu << this is an illustration on the fertile juicy ideas i miss out on and so forth. [22:07]
assbot ... ( ) [22:07]
asciilifeform l0l! [22:07]
asciilifeform ^ that looks industrial [22:07]
mircea_popescu urinal to go with industrial. [22:08]
assbot ... ( ) [22:08]
mircea_popescu decimation: he's getting kinda old and tired frankly << yeah we should have a linus retierment betting pool [22:08]
asciilifeform most common, of course, is spending some time in jail, but hey << workin' on that [22:08]
asciilifeform at least jail's free (for now) [22:09]
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mircea_popescu only if you go there lawfully. otherwise you have to pay. [22:09]
asciilifeform disposable camera into a single-use taser << why single use. charge cap again, again. who here -hasn't- done this?! [22:10]
asciilifeform battery and a capacitor << mircea_popescu has it [22:10]
mircea_popescu no i don't. i used to, but then my mother threw a shitfit once she realised why her aunt's entire chicken population was dizzy [22:10]
mircea_popescu so they BURIED IT. somewhere. i was in the fucking sticks. couldn't get another one for coupla weeks, until back to town, at which point... [22:11]
mircea_popescu no chickens. [22:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132350 @ 0.0004196 = 55.5341 BTC [-] [22:11]
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asciilifeform !b 7 [22:12]
assbot Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [22:12]
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* assbot gives voice to mike_c [22:16]
mircea_popescu decimation: out, that we should think very carefully about eliminating or demonizing genetic engineering." << to a large degree, the debate is sorely misstated. nobody is seriously discussing "genetic engineering". what's being discussed is, "let's make random combinations of genetic material we do not at all understand and see what happens. this will necessarily result in novel/ununderstood proteins and other hydrocar [22:17]
mircea_popescu bons being synthetised. the plan kingdom is, historically, the largest producer of poisons on the planet and to a large degree a controller of animal population counts and animal species survival rates, which is why you even need a liver in the first place - notice that your imune system doens't REALLY have an organ (thymus, w/e)." this is not "genetic engineering", this is chromogambling. [22:17]
mircea_popescu and yes i typed all that in the box! [22:17]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: << hood nigga's dream [22:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: by and large, nothing interesting (not even new poison!) happens if you mutate at random. [22:18]
mircea_popescu i can readily live with a complete demonization of chromogambling. it would not do anything, in my head, to either engineering or genetics. [22:18]
thestringpuller I wish I was one of those black guys :( [22:18]
asciilifeform that style of 'engineering' is 1940s state of the art [22:18]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the substantial difference between ENGINEERING and GAMBLING is important here [22:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8850 @ 0.0004196 = 3.7135 BTC [-] [22:18]
asciilifeform when folks would 'let that thing eat gamma until almost dead, then plant it' [22:18]
asciilifeform who and where is still doing this, i cannot say [22:19]
mircea_popescu how do you think the gmo stuff is made ? same principle, different lego blocks [22:19]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller why ? and if so, join some swinger's club. [22:19]
asciilifeform nope. [22:19]
mircea_popescu do tell. [22:20]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: why? << Maybe subconciously I fetishize white girls? I honestly don't know. [22:20]
asciilifeform not same principle. snippets of synthetic nucleic acid are used, it goes (or more often, doesn't..) to a specific place, there is a (usually bad) protein model to predict effect, etc. [22:21]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller move to wash dc, put up craigslist "Black man looking to humiliate married white women. Husband may be included.". watch how you make more money than alf. [22:21]
asciilifeform by and large none of it works [22:21]
asciilifeform roi - terrible [22:21]
asciilifeform that's the 'big secret', really [22:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i suppose a better framed debate would then be this exactly, as above. "is this engineering or is it just dumbery" [22:22]
asciilifeform it's approximately how software 'engineering' is done now [22:22]
asciilifeform check back on it in a decade, they'll look rather similar [22:22]
mircea_popescu to nobody's credit. [22:22]
asciilifeform these two 'engineerings' [22:22]
mircea_popescu at least software has the excuse it takes any retarded kid. [22:22]
asciilifeform << obligatory [22:22]
assbot Loper OS » The Future of Programming: Ignorance and Superstition? ... ( ) [22:22]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller prepping of same, jus fer ya. [22:23]
assbot ... ( ) [22:23]
asciilifeform any single usg employee's security, in all respects, continues at the MERCY of unidentified party. in no sense and in no manner does it flow from usg-anything << to be fair, the very reason why 'identity theft' is a real problem for anybody is usg [22:23]
mircea_popescu orly ? [22:23]
asciilifeform aha [22:23]
asciilifeform why is it possible to borrow $maxint in mr. chump's name without his pgp key [22:24]
asciilifeform - usg. [22:24]
mircea_popescu you know you WILL end up having to come up with "the only reason sun raises in the morning is usg" at some point [22:24]
mircea_popescu the way you're going. [22:24]
asciilifeform l0l [22:24]
asciilifeform how is the above picture mistaken [22:24]
asciilifeform ? [22:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34900 @ 0.0003831 = 13.3702 BTC [-] {3} [22:24]
asciilifeform << see also [22:24]
assbot Logged on 06-02-2015 03:02:19; *: asciilifeform once worked with a nearly-penniless foreign postdoc whose departure from usa was hastened by some bureaucrat (who handled his papers) deciding to... buy a house in his name [22:24]
mircea_popescu it holds the same logical strength as "the very reason why 'identity theft' is a real problem for anybody is that women are whores" [22:25]
mircea_popescu there may be some relation even, and some factuality to the claim and existence to the group. nevertheless... [22:25]
asciilifeform is it possible for someone to steal the identity of mircea_popescu? if not, why not ? [22:25]
mircea_popescu depends where. [22:25]
asciilifeform anywhere it matters [22:25]
mircea_popescu im sure all sorts of romanian kids claim to know me for their own circle ? [22:25]
mircea_popescu im sure all sorts of adults tell stories that happened to me as if - them. [22:26]
mircea_popescu etc. [22:26]
asciilifeform but none of this is so much as a mild annoyance in Castle Mircea_popescustein proper [22:26]
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mircea_popescu sooo ? [22:27]
mircea_popescu << helping thestringpuller work productively, one gif at a time. [22:27]
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assbot ... ( ) [22:27]
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asciilifeform sooo >> usg could mandate pgp for letters of credit just as easily as it mandates the garbage we see today [22:28]
asciilifeform but doesn't [22:28]
mircea_popescu how do you know this / [22:28]
asciilifeform ? [22:28]
mircea_popescu could the roman empire have mandated its legions wear the fucking scutum, pilum and thorax ? [22:29]
mircea_popescu "ow but your majesty, shit's heavy" [22:29]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu suggests that such an order would not be obeyed? probably true [22:29]
mircea_popescu i merely am pointing out that your jumps go over lenghty stretches of weak bridging [22:29]
asciilifeform interestingly, hitler's 'table talk' contains a few instances of whining that he'd like xxxxx but the orders don't get carried out [22:30]
mircea_popescu what, by 1945 there's nothing BUT that. [22:30]
asciilifeform well yes [22:30]
mircea_popescu das war ein befehl! [22:30]
asciilifeform but long prior [22:30]
mircea_popescu wer sind sie eigentlich, dass sie einen befehl, den ich gebe, zu missachten wagen!!??!?!!!?! etc [22:31]
asciilifeform l0l [22:31]
thestringpuller "U.S. NIH spends ~30b annually to found research. However, many resulting papers are NOT repeatable In my merely 8 years experience in academia, I believe >50% papers are not repeatable especially those claiming therapeutic effects. [22:31]
asciilifeform ^ anyone -not- recognize source ? [22:31]
thestringpuller We all know the reason : Disproving or confirming others finding won't get you very far in a scientific career. One needs to have novel finding to get published in Nature , Cell or Science, which are powerful tickets for next round of NIH funding. Because research resources are scarce, no scientists can survive by examining others papers. Therefore, faking a cute and novel discovery is effective to survive the academia with min [22:31]
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mircea_popescu thestringpuller incidentally, exactly how teh neanderthal got wiped out. [22:35]
mircea_popescu cro cutegnon. [22:35]
mircea_popescu "There are no homeopathic automobile repair shops, that try to repair your car by putting infinitesimal dilutions of rust in the gas tank. There are no automotive faith healers, who lay their hands on the hood and pray." [22:39]
asciilifeform ^ true at time of writing [22:39]
mircea_popescu this, fwiw, is patently false. even now is being advertised a device which, iof placed on tank, will make the car not use fuel. [22:39]
cazalla [22:39]
assbot Micon Details The Operational Security Concerns Of Seals With Clubs | ... ( ) [22:40]
mircea_popescu and always was there. [22:40]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i do recall this, now that you mentioned it [22:40]
mircea_popescu cazalla fwiw, exactly nothing in ro press re voxility srl. [22:42]
mircea_popescu reg if you care. [22:42]
assbot SC VOXILITY SRL din Sectorul 2 Bdul. Dimitrie Pompei 9-9a, CUI 16633718 ... ( ) [22:42]
cazalla seems a bit suss he would say he is unsure what happened with the servers but is already moving forward to relaunch [22:43]
cazalla prob has an idea but he didn't speculate further anyway [22:44]
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mircea_popescu << did i say what a fucking great review this is ? [22:50]
assbot The Last Psychiatrist: Kerouac's On The Road: The 50th Anniversary Of A Book I Had Not Read ... ( ) [22:50]
mircea_popescu The entire spirit of the book can be summarized by Dean's words: "Sal, think of it, we'll dig Denver together...!" That's what a man who is trying to con a woman into running off with him would say. Denver, really?? Really? Why? Because it starts with D? I'd at least momentarily entertain the theory that D cities are great places to get to, but the real reason he wants to get to Denver, or anywhere else, is preci [22:50]
mircea_popescu sely because the longer he stays in any one place, the better chance he'll be discovered to be a loser. Time to go where the grass is greener, somewhere people don't know you're there to crap on it. [22:50]
* asciilifeform realized that he built the fscking netbsd -installer- into the eeprom [22:56]
* asciilifeform proceeded to stuff in a drive and... fire it [22:56]
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asciilifeform (why do i need a conventional install? because want to test my attempt at driver for the nand as a kernel mod) [23:03]
asciilifeform having actual support for the nand would make it possible to eliminate the 'ramdisk' and shave a few MB off the memory footprint. [23:03]
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* asciilifeform read that tlp article, wakes up to having known precisely the type of animal described therein - in real life [23:08]
mircea_popescu sure. plenty of 'em. [23:08]
mircea_popescu also, [23:09]
assbot ... ( ) [23:09]
trinque I might've gotten past the first chapter of that book [23:09]
trinque certainly not the second [23:09]
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asciilifeform butugychag. [23:10]
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mike_c cazalla: [23:18]
assbot (several um's, uh's, you knows, removed) Hello the internet. Bryan Micon her - ... ( ) [23:18]
cazalla mike_c, did you transcribe that? [23:18]
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decimation asciilifeform: so you are still using the u-boot copy-to-ramdisk method if you don't have a driver for the eeprom? [23:20]
asciilifeform decimation: at the moment, yes [23:20]
decimation ah, still it's neat that you got it working [23:21]
asciilifeform decimation: i forget if mentioned earlier: got the whole build to work [23:21]
asciilifeform for what it's worth [23:21]
decimation yeah you mentioned [23:21]
* decimation find this to be a good reason to buy a pogo and play along [23:22]
danielpbarron how can i repeat this? i'm stuck on your last tip about something in a TOOLS directory [23:23]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: i will post a patch to the netbsd src tree [23:23]
asciilifeform that results in a netbsd.ub which can be used straight [23:23]
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asciilifeform basically, used like this, [23:24]
asciilifeform flash_erase /dev/mtd4 0 0 [23:24]
asciilifeform nandwrite -p /dev/mtd4 netbsd.ub [23:24]
asciilifeform fw_setenv boot_bsd 'nand read.e 0x800000 0x1000000 0xc00000; bootm 0x800000' [23:24]
asciilifeform then you halt uboot on the next powerup and 'run boot_bsd' [23:24]
asciilifeform (for manual testing, can make this default behaviour if want) [23:24]
asciilifeform the 0xc00000 is a round number here, you want it to encompass your binary's size [23:25]
asciilifeform (i just eyeballed it) [23:25]
danielpbarron is halting uboot something i'd need the serial thing for? [23:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32450 @ 0.0004097 = 13.2948 BTC [+] [23:25]
asciilifeform ideally [23:26]
asciilifeform unless you have it configured to do the udp console thing [23:26]
* asciilifeform forgot that not everyone's pogo has the serial jack [23:26]
decimation asciilifeform: it would go nicely with an old-timey ibm serial terminal :) [23:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12687 @ 0.0004097 = 5.1979 BTC [+] [23:28]
asciilifeform [23:29]
asciilifeform ^^^^^^ [23:29]
asciilifeform i will not sign this. if it annihilates your home planet, i am not responsible. [23:29]
asciilifeform use as described above. will boot into a netbsd installer. [23:29]
asciilifeform can find binary sets for arm at or your local sets build [23:30]
assbot Index of /NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.5/evbarm/binary/sets ... ( ) [23:30]
asciilifeform (throw it up on ftp on your own box) [23:30]
asciilifeform the only conceivable use of the above sample is to demonstrate that netbsd will function correctly on 'pogo'. [23:30]
asciilifeform and possibly in case someone wishes to install on larger disk and boot from it, for purposes of dev work. [23:31]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6, jurov, mircea_popescu, et al ^^^ [23:32]
mike_c cazalla: yeah. i hate watching videos. figured i'd spare others the pain. [23:32]
asciilifeform i have demonstrated that netbsd kernel (of my custom trimmed build) will correctly init the periphs on pogo [23:32]
asciilifeform for whatever that's worth. [23:32]
asciilifeform will post patch set once i can be bothered to crap one out [23:33]
cazalla mike_c, k thanks, i tossed it into the article in blockquotes [23:33]
asciilifeform i possibly ought to discuss the constants [23:33]
asciilifeform the 0x1000000 is the offset of the default mtd4 eeprom partition [23:34]
asciilifeform if you monkeyed with your pogo's mtd mappings, you will have to recalculate [23:34]
asciilifeform (the value is simply the sum of the lengths of mtd0..3, naturally, and these numbers are available in the uboot console if that's all you've got) [23:34]
asciilifeform incidentally it is possible to write the eeprom from uboot (you gotta pump in the new payloads via tftp in that case, but you save time by not needing to wait for an os - such as the terrifying bloat of systemdized-archlinux - to load) [23:35]
asciilifeform 0x800000 - if it wasn't obvious - is where uboot parks the kernel prior to jumping in [23:37]
asciilifeform don't change. [23:37]
asciilifeform that's really all. [23:37]
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asciilifeform 'NetBSD: running on a dead squirrel in a cardboard box since '03' [23:40]
asciilifeform (srsly, there is an 'atari' port.) [23:41]
asciilifeform 1ad4391c46ab3520e9aaf8dce2d48d4788fd3752e93c70fabf0dc66f770628d835e764855ab933905a4152524b100358c82b27ca0471a77af02836740e9c41be piece_of_shit.tar.gz [23:41]
asciilifeform (sha512) [23:41]
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danielpbarron can i ssh into this thing? [23:44]
asciilifeform nope [23:44]
asciilifeform bare bones. [23:44]
asciilifeform once you actually install netbsd with it on something else - sure [23:45]
asciilifeform posted here mainly as proof of concept. [23:45]
asciilifeform and everybody who is seriously dealing with this stuff ought to have at least one 'pogo' with serial jack. [23:46]
mats [23:47]
assbot primus shake hands with beef - YouTube ... ( ) [23:47]
danielpbarron what would you advise that i purchase? [23:47]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: a CP2102 or equivalent [23:48]
asciilifeform and, if you don't own one: soldering iron... [23:49]
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asciilifeform [23:49]
asciilifeform ^ it [23:49]
assbot cp2102.jpg on Hardware/CP210xTutorial – Attachment [23:49]
asciilifeform ubiquitous. should cost no more than a few bux [23:50]
asciilifeform plug into linux box, you get a /dev/ttyUSBx [23:50]
asciilifeform and ttl logic rx and tx on the other end of the hose. [23:50]
asciilifeform set to 115200 baud. [23:50]
asciilifeform (theoretically, default, don't have to set. but if your favourite term emu makes you set - then above) [23:51]
* asciilifeform uses 'gnu screen' [23:51]
danielpbarron will this do? [23:51]
assbot KEDSUM® CP2102 Module STC Download Cable USB 2.0 to TTL 6PIN Serial Converter For STC: Computers & Accessories ... ( ) [23:51]
asciilifeform aha [23:52]
asciilifeform even appears to come with wires [23:52]
danielpbarron there was a cheaper one, but this one has more reviews [23:52]
asciilifeform behead'em and solder as pictured [23:52]
asciilifeform in earlier thread [23:52]
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asciilifeform you need three leads, tx, rx, ground [23:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31425 @ 0.00041688 = 13.1005 BTC [+] [23:55]
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danielpbarron << this one might not need soldering? [23:55]
assbot NooElec PL2303 USB to Serial (TTL) Module/Adapter with Female and Male Wiring Harnesses & Test Jumper. Compatible with Windows 98 through Windows 7; Mac OS 8 through OS X, Linux and Android!: Computers & Accessories ... ( ) [23:55]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: -any- of them will need soldering [23:55]
asciilifeform because there is no connector inside the 'pogo'. [23:56]
asciilifeform only bare pads. [23:56]
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asciilifeform they omitted it to save a penny. [23:56]
asciilifeform (not a wholly illogical thing to do, but annoying to us junkyard dogs) [23:56]
asciilifeform in unrelated nyooz, [23:56]
asciilifeform ''After careful consideration of the public and classified pleadings, the Court holds that Plaintiffs claims must be dismissed under the state secrets privilege because (1) privileged information is at the heart of Plaintiffs claims for discrimination on the basis of disability and race, hostile work environment and retaliation, (2) Defendants cannot defend this action without relying on privileged information, and (3) further [23:58]
asciilifeform litigation of Plaintiffs claims would present an unjustifiable risk of disclosure of classified information regarding (a) the identities of CIA officers and employees, (b) the job titles, duties, work assignments of Plaintiff and other covert employees, and the criteria and reasons for making the work assignments and employment decisions regarding them, (c) sources and methods used by covert employees, including operational t [23:58]
asciilifeform radecraft and the identity of human assets; (d) the targets and focus of CIA's intelligence collection and operations, and (e) the location of CIA covert facilities. Accordingly, the Court grants Defendant's Motion for Summary Judgment'. Accordingly, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that Defendant's Motion for Summary Judgment (Doc. 28) is GRANTED, and this action is DISMISSED without prejudice.' [23:58]
asciilifeform ( ) [23:58]
asciilifeform so for all those who were wondering re: the proverbial 'who is stronger? the elephant, or the whale ?' [23:58]
asciilifeform we have an answer. [23:58]
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