Forum logs for 20 Feb 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: [00:01]
assbot ... ( ) [00:01]
mircea_popescu awww [00:02]
asciilifeform try not to laugh to death, aha. [00:03]
mircea_popescu as you say, sop. [00:03]
asciilifeform in other news, blocks that take my trb nodez 5-10 min. to verify have become sop. [00:10]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron> is it a gamble? what was risked? << bb is just butthurt he didn't buy [00:15]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re: earlier thread, p. 134 of turd has a chart, claims 1,084 usgrasty applicants with breakdown of why rejected [00:19]
mircea_popescu hm. [00:20]
asciilifeform or, hm, first chart is 'issues' and second 'serious' (i.e., disqualifying) issues. [00:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7450 @ 0.00056125 = 4.1813 BTC [+] [00:28]
asciilifeform 'There are three forms of employee commitment that may apply to commitment to country as well: affective (emotional: ― I feel good when I see the flag), normative (obligation: ― I belong here) and instrumental (no other option: ― I’m here because I have no choice).' << l0ltr0nic [00:31]
asciilifeform 'People want to be here, but why? Polling data suggest that the reasons are mostly instrumental (public funds, ease of travel), with only 17 percent expressing an affective reason.' [00:32]
mircea_popescu mcdonalds is still the cheapest food people who only speak english can purchase. [00:38]
mircea_popescu plus it comes in a variety of coatings, from burito to what's that other thing. [00:39]
asciilifeform moar lulz: [00:39]
asciilifeform 'The challenge: what is “financially over-extended” today? It is more common now than before, and debt has become the norm. We have to take financial situation into consideration and be flexible; otherwise, almost no one will qualify for a security clearance if we aren’t careful. We can’t ignore it, but need to consider the reasons for it. Before there may have been clear indicators but today [00:39]
asciilifeform people are losing jobs and there’s more challenges to survive.' [00:39]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: mcmuffin [00:39]
mircea_popescu heh. [00:39]
mircea_popescu so i guess they dropped it to 5% more recently ? [00:39]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86814 @ 0.00056069 = 48.6757 BTC [-] {2} [00:43]
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danielpbarron !up dbclk [00:53]
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danielpbarron !up dbclk [00:57]
* assbot gives voice to dbclk [00:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55850 @ 0.00056126 = 31.3464 BTC [+] [00:58]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52870 @ 0.0005617 = 29.6971 BTC [+] [01:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40724 @ 0.0005588 = 22.7566 BTC [-] [01:46]
BingoBoingo Hooked on Monkey Phonics [01:51]
assbot LIVE! Core developers are trying to corrupt a coalition of miners with black magic! : Bitcoin ... ( ) [01:51]
pete_dushenski << more gross americanists [01:52]
assbot Guy Eats In-N-Out Like An Absolute Maniac - YouTube ... ( ) [01:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47251 @ 0.00056361 = 26.6311 BTC [+] {2} [01:54]
BingoBoingo [02:01]
assbot FBI iPhone Circle Jerk Theater | Qntra ... ( ) [02:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68200 @ 0.0005588 = 38.1102 BTC [-] [02:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54150 @ 0.00056205 = 30.435 BTC [+] {2} [02:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50250 @ 0.00056407 = 28.3445 BTC [+] [02:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87800 @ 0.00055854 = 49.0398 BTC [-] {2} [02:46]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80600 @ 0.00056419 = 45.4737 BTC [+] [03:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89400 @ 0.00056941 = 50.9053 BTC [+] {2} [04:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9975 @ 0.00056419 = 5.6278 BTC [-] [04:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 661 @ 0.00266793 = 1.7635 BTC [+] {3} [04:28]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30850 @ 0.00056419 = 17.4053 BTC [-] [04:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60600 @ 0.00057011 = 34.5487 BTC [+] {2} [04:54]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00056978 = 32.2495 BTC [-] [05:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99270 @ 0.00056373 = 55.9615 BTC [-] {2} [05:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15740 @ 0.00056078 = 8.8267 BTC [-] [06:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27452 @ 0.00056078 = 15.3945 BTC [-] [06:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64587 @ 0.0005609 = 36.2268 BTC [+] [06:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90822 @ 0.00055968 = 50.8313 BTC [-] {2} [06:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5805 @ 0.00056525 = 3.2813 BTC [+] [06:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7361 @ 0.00056978 = 4.1942 BTC [+] [06:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98255 @ 0.00057054 = 56.0584 BTC [+] {3} [06:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20795 @ 0.00056948 = 11.8423 BTC [-] [06:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94300 @ 0.00056924 = 53.6793 BTC [-] {3} [07:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40259 @ 0.00055963 = 22.5301 BTC [-] {3} [07:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16232 @ 0.00056594 = 9.1863 BTC [+] [07:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.00055787 = 15.1741 BTC [-] [07:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31068 @ 0.00056594 = 17.5826 BTC [+] [08:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35341 @ 0.00056714 = 20.0433 BTC [+] [08:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9032 @ 0.00056704 = 5.1215 BTC [-] [08:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38900 @ 0.00056562 = 22.0026 BTC [-] {2} [08:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17550 @ 0.00056374 = 9.8936 BTC [-] {2} [09:23]
punkman [HKmtg]To Everyone: We have CONSENSUS! In April we get SW, 3 months later, core HF code ready [09:23]
punkman [09:25]
punkman snowden join the apple circlejerk [09:27]
punkman in other robo-lawyer news [09:31]
assbot Joshua Browder's Bot for parking tickets - Business Insider ... ( ) [09:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00056125 = 28.736 BTC [-] [09:35]
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punkman aww [09:54]
assbot Italian writer Umberto Eco dies at 84 - BBC News ... ( ) [09:54]
mircea_popescu aww [09:59]
fluffypony :( [10:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53350 @ 0.00056078 = 29.9176 BTC [-] {2} [10:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190200 @ 0.00055866 = 106.2571 BTC [-] {3} [10:24]
shinohai T_T [10:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 198477 @ 0.00056702 = 112.5404 BTC [+] {2} [10:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30164 @ 0.00056818 = 17.1386 BTC [+] [10:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3290 @ 0.00056861 = 1.8707 BTC [+] [10:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30100 @ 0.0005693 = 17.1359 BTC [+] {2} [11:08]
asciilifeform eco! [11:21]
asciilifeform who is even left, now, who was anything, culturally. [11:22]
asciilifeform in other western civ nyooz, [11:22]
asciilifeform [11:22]
assbot Sex with animals remains banned in Germany as legal bid fails - BBC News ... ( ) [11:22]
mircea_popescu what's the jew's name [11:24]
mircea_popescu chomsky [11:24]
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asciilifeform l0l, he's a... [11:27]
asciilifeform sorta like zhirinovsky [11:27]
asciilifeform pet opposition [11:27]
asciilifeform << wut [11:28]
assbot Twitter ... ( ) [11:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25166 @ 0.00055787 = 14.0394 BTC [-] {2} [11:28]
punkman want [11:31]
assbot Black garlic (food) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( ) [11:31]
punkman [11:35]
assbot EDWARD SNOWDEN IS MARK ZUCKERBERG’S COUSIN - Anarchadia - Underground Anarchism Since 2010 ... ( ) [11:35]
punkman I'm picturing a bum shouting "EDWARD SNOWDEN IS MARK ZUCKERBERG’S COUSIN" at people in a park [11:38]
mircea_popescu i have like eight dozen cousins, and this is counting just the ones i shouldn't be fucking. [11:40]
mircea_popescu what's such a bigdeal about cousinage ? [11:40]
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asciilifeform ;;later tell BingoBoingo: << part2 of crapple l0ltron [12:09]
gribble The operation succeeded. [12:09]
assbot ... ( ) [12:09]
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shinohai ./Classic:0.11.2/ 985 nodes - (16.02%) [12:10]
shinohai There is a Classic node running on "The Municipal Communications Utility of the City of Cedar Falls, Iowa" [12:12]
asciilifeform what happened to the other ~1000 ? [12:13]
shinohai maybe they couldn't keep all the aws instances up. [12:14]
asciilifeform aws went up a penny? sooo sad [12:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80953 @ 0.00055787 = 45.1613 BTC [-] [12:15]
asciilifeform i still don't grasp why the ph0rkerz can't simply ask hitler for real machines / actual bandwidth [12:15]
mircea_popescu shinohai> There is a Classic node running on "The Municipal Communications Utility of the City of Cedar Falls, Iowa" << write the boss and ask. sounds like a decent qntra piece. [12:19]
mircea_popescu "classic running on stolen infrastructure - perpetrator reprimanded" [12:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform because a) hitler doesn't have them and b) hitler is not stalin, to answer every ivanov dick and harry. [12:20]
asciilifeform what, bot-herding directorate had hdd crash? [12:21]
asciilifeform (b) i can see, but ph0rkatron is what if not ordered by the fuhrer? [12:22]
mircea_popescu fuhrer orders many things, pays for few or none. [12:24]
mircea_popescu what, turkey didn't get ordered to suicide ? what, you think anyone pays for it ? [12:24]
asciilifeform it gets 'paid' in not-set-on-fire? [12:26]
mircea_popescu pfff. [12:26]
mircea_popescu that is entirely in the derp's head. but i do mean entirely. [12:27]
asciilifeform every fire is in the head until not, sorta how it works, or bag men would all have empty bags [12:29]
asciilifeform and what, after syria usg is out of matches? [12:30]
mircea_popescu yeah. meanwhile us army can't actually face turkish army, so there is that. [12:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.00055945 = 18.7416 BTC [+] [12:31]
asciilifeform usg can turn their - or any other nato bitchdom's - air defenses off with one button. [12:31]
mircea_popescu notrly, the turks have a lot of russian stuff too. [12:32]
mircea_popescu and apparently even the very little syria had was ample [12:32]
asciilifeform ru will helpfully switch off the ru boxes [12:32]
asciilifeform nobody loves the poor turkz. [12:32]
mircea_popescu pretty sad really. [12:33]
asciilifeform aha! [12:33]
asciilifeform like last time. [12:33]
asciilifeform in 1918 [12:33]
mircea_popescu or to quote [12:33]
assbot Continut platit no more. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [12:33]
asciilifeform oh forfuxxsake [12:34]
asciilifeform how do i view the thing??! [12:34]
asciilifeform on what. [12:34]
asciilifeform vax? [12:34]
mircea_popescu don't tell me it magically doesn't work again ? [12:34]
asciilifeform aha [12:35]
mircea_popescu now how the fuck does this happen, it's not changed since when you said ti worked days ago ?! [12:35]
mircea_popescu < does that work ? [12:35]
assbot Continut platit no more. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [12:35]
asciilifeform ~this~ works. [12:37]
mircea_popescu nuts. [12:37]
asciilifeform the one that worked, worked on a crapple box. [12:37]
asciilifeform 'chrome' [12:37]
mircea_popescu and right now ? [12:38]
asciilifeform the archive link works on 'chromium' [12:38]
asciilifeform but not on crapple [12:38]
* justanotheruser has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [12:38]
mircea_popescu ... [12:38]
asciilifeform i have nfi. [12:38]
* mircea_popescu dreams of one day having a fucking html document presentation stack that allows this to work. [12:39]
mircea_popescu it's the one innovation since a href that's worth having. [12:39]
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asciilifeform ted nelson described it in ~1970 [12:40]
asciilifeform !s transclusion [12:40]
assbot 0 results for 'transclusion' : [12:40]
asciilifeform hm. [12:40]
asciilifeform !s xanadu [12:40]
assbot 6 results for 'xanadu' : [12:40]
mircea_popescu good for him so where is it. [12:41]
asciilifeform nowhere, he got openbsd'd. [12:41]
asciilifeform (don't even bother looking at the thing that got 'released' a few yrs back.) [12:41]
asciilifeform nelson is an interesting case of failed inventor, i have all of his published materials here and studied very carefull [12:42]
asciilifeform y [12:42]
asciilifeform at one point, after decades of futile crackpottery, he made phriends with some money fella and actually got funded, but turned out that this did not help [12:43]
mircea_popescu aha ? [12:43]
asciilifeform 'brogrammers' frittered away the funds, whole thing collapsed in a giant black hole of mismanagement, graft, and varied charlatanry [12:43]
mircea_popescu it rarely helps. [12:44]
mircea_popescu giving money / cunt / whatever to "engineer" minded idiots is a monumental waste. [12:44]
asciilifeform he was not equipped to birth the thing with own hands [12:44]
asciilifeform (not that anyone would have given money for that) [12:44]
asciilifeform money is 'given' so that you can 'buy 200 mil of ads from arsebook, who gave it' as per mircea_popescu's article. [12:45]
mircea_popescu but in other news, /me is looking forward to reinstated phyctor [12:45]
asciilifeform me too [12:45]
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asciilifeform ~6G occupied by trb on dulap after 40 days. nb. [12:56]
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mircea_popescu !rate gaxaro 1 Euloran [13:04]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [13:04]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gaxaro.1:d3988c802eaefea702616d83201ea61045b6ddd590ef3129643656c8b3dd2dd3 [13:04]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for gaxaro with note: Euloran [13:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123277 @ 0.00056908 = 70.1545 BTC [+] {2} [13:04]
BingoBoingo Someone gets it [13:15]
assbot FBI iPhone Circle Jerk Theater | Qntra ... ( ) [13:15]
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* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [13:19]
pete_dushenski << costco is one of the few mega-corps who doesn't cheat on what they call 'extra virgin' olive oil. [13:20]
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BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Or was better at not getting caught [13:22]
* Xuthus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [13:22]
pete_dushenski << i can't tell if this is from 2008 (as listed as 'upload date') or 1977. white chalk on green blackboard and modest indian lecturer are timeless! [13:22]
assbot Lecture 36 ROM-EPROM,EEPROM and Flash EPROM - YouTube ... ( ) [13:22]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: like crapple [13:23]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: crapple or anyone else big enough to put on a show for the people [13:23]
pete_dushenski 'lights, camera, craption!' [13:24]
mircea_popescu lol [13:24]
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mircea_popescu in other news, the things yo ugotta do to get girl to tan without lines : [13:25]
assbot ... ( ) [13:25]
punkman she'd get tan lines from the chains tho [13:25]
mircea_popescu there is no escape!11 [13:26]
punkman clear plastic chains! [13:27]
mircea_popescu still block uv [13:27]
pete_dushenski << more like gets paid in "we iz ko-moo-nitee" [13:27]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 15:22:47; asciilifeform: it gets 'paid' in not-set-on-fire? [13:27]
pete_dushenski feelings as currency - worth ~usd at this point [13:27]
mircea_popescu payment in feelers! [13:27]
mircea_popescu in which field eulora is again one step ahead - you can literally ask to be paid in feelings. [13:28]
pete_dushenski dingdingding [13:28]
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mircea_popescu they're really cheap, too [13:29]
pete_dushenski 'best price for you, my friend' [13:30]
mircea_popescu lol [13:30]
* BingoBoingo is just starting to confront the magnitude of crapple stockholm syndrome on that qntra's comments [13:30]
pete_dushenski << is today the big day ? [13:30]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 15:42:01; mircea_popescu: but in other news, /me is looking forward to reinstated phyctor [13:30]
mircea_popescu *fingers crossed* [13:31]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: possibly. [13:31]
asciilifeform likely to soak up all of tomorrow too. [13:32]
pete_dushenski well, break a leg out there [13:33]
* assbot gives voice to danielpbarron [13:33]
asciilifeform in other nyooz, [13:35]
asciilifeform << preeeeeeet! [13:35]
assbot ... ( ) [13:35]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: if cupertino syndrome can happen to alf... what hope is there for the common man ? [13:35]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: i don't crapple off the clock, normally [13:35]
pete_dushenski iph0ne1`11!!! [13:35]
pete_dushenski 'infinite loop syndrome' works too [13:36]
pete_dushenski (apple's hq is located at #1 infinite loop in cupertino ca) [13:37]
pete_dushenski looks like we'll hit block 400`000 this weekend eh [13:38]
BingoBoingo We have synthesis apparently [13:39]
assbot ... ( ) [13:39]
pete_dushenski ;;ticker [13:39]
gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 435.3, Best ask: 435.31, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 435.36, 24 hour volume: 23935.00095199, 24 hour low: 417.57, 24 hour high: 437.58, 24 hour vwap: None [13:39]
pete_dushenski ^and liftoff [13:39]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: typical 'tree tweaks' (tm) (r) [13:40]
asciilifeform megatonnes of crapolade in blox for week+ now [13:55]
mircea_popescu aha. [13:57]
BingoBoingo Apparently code 3 months, trigger at least 1 year+ from now, but negotiations apparently ongoing [14:00]
mircea_popescu they can "negotiate" until they fall over. [14:01]
BingoBoingo Still, theater [14:01]
mircea_popescu the unmitigated audacity of schmuckdom never fails to astound. [14:02]
pete_dushenski no wonder the roman republic distrusted actors [14:03]
pete_dushenski bbiab. farmer's market. [14:03]
* micheieh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [14:05]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb [14:05]
* micheieh ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:05]
gribble BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2890.15, vol: 55196.55160000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2890.15 [14:05]
BingoBoingo !up micheieh [14:05]
* assbot gives voice to micheieh [14:05]
mircea_popescu anyway, situation reminds me of the time some derpy vc schmucks flew over to asia to "save mtgox consensus". [14:07]
mircea_popescu i suppose the sort of vermin will die believing in their own relevancy. [14:08]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: Apparently reddit is racis [14:15]
assbot NO BLACKS ALLOWED IN THE BITCOIN SPACE! : Bitcoin ... ( ) [14:16]
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* assbot removes voice from micheieh [14:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60700 @ 0.00057184 = 34.7107 BTC [+] {2} [14:42]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.50000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - [14:48]
deedbot- [Qntra] Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Rises Above 163 Billion - [14:52]
punkman alphago bet back to even odds eh [14:53]
asciilifeform need moar reddit coinz [14:56]
BingoBoingo This is bullish for alf wallet [14:56]
punkman any idea how many cpus/gpus alphago will use in the match? [14:56]
asciilifeform maxint [14:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 266483 @ 0.00057215 = 152.4682 BTC [+] {5} [14:58]
punkman has anyone done a computer-assisted human player go tournament? [15:00]
asciilifeform punkman: nope. isn't chess, computer doesn't help. [15:00]
punkman btw all I've read said no handicap [15:02]
assbot Logged on 27-01-2016 23:48:23; ascii_butugychag: << the sc4mz0rz neglect to mention that the wins were in handicap games [15:02]
deedbot- [Qntra] Tampa Police Refuse To Work Plus Sized Star's Event After Insult - [15:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80477 @ 0.000573 = 46.1133 BTC [+] {2} [15:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 14675 @ 0.00023316 = 3.4216 BTC [-] [15:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83700 @ 0.00057339 = 47.9927 BTC [+] [15:49]
asciilifeform << in other oldies. [15:51]
assbot Visual 6502 in JavaScript ... ( ) [15:51]
asciilifeform << even better. [15:52]
assbot Visual 6502 in JavaScript ... ( ) [15:52]
BingoBoingo !t m s.qntr [15:55]
assbot [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00023316 / 0.00023536 / 0.0002676 (16150 shares, 3.80 BTC), 7D: 0.00023316 / 0.00040735 / 0.00049913 (54640 shares, 22.26 BTC), 30D: 0.00023316 / 0.00040332 / 0.00049913 (197184 shares, 79.53 BTC) [15:55]
asciilifeform PHYSICAL simulation of the thing, based on photographed and ocr'd dies, with animation. [15:56]
BingoBoingo holy shit [15:57]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: neat [15:59]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: << your girls? [15:59]
assbot Letters from the stupid country on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [15:59]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: written in browsercrud even. imagine what could be done on an ~actual~ comp [16:00]
ben_vulpes simulate a whole computer, shock, awe [16:03]
asciilifeform was thinking re: how 'moore's law', even in its heyday, did not substantially affect the inflation-adjusted COST of having a chip baked [16:05]
asciilifeform because, at least partly, the latter represents 'capital allocation', or as mircea_popescu's article put it, 'a thing we can't all be doing' [16:05]
asciilifeform (the nre cost is what i'm speaking of) [16:05]
* bounce has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [16:06]
ben_vulpes masks and shots were never terribly affected by moore's law itself [16:06]
asciilifeform nor the meat labour [16:07]
* Xuthus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [16:07]
asciilifeform and if anything, the relevant tooling operations are now ~rarer~, more involved, costlier, the qualified folks - fewer. [16:07]
ben_vulpes subject of meat labor, i was slamming the 27-year old baristas some staffer was browsing on tinder last night and someone made the hilarious comment that bunnies are just as hot-swappable as baristas [16:07]
ben_vulpes "what it takes 6 months to train a barista from nothing, and 6 months to make a useful process tech!" [16:08]
asciilifeform it takes ~16 yrs. to make a process tech. [16:08]
asciilifeform starting from zygote. [16:08]
asciilifeform if you think '6 mo' it is because someone did this work for you, for phree [16:09]
ben_vulpes i'm not even talking about the incubating [16:09]
ben_vulpes i'm talking about attention to detail, understanding wtf is happening, why the suit is a necessary thing, why the sticky pads at each door... [16:10]
mod6 email got snarffed [16:10]
ben_vulpes but perhaps i only ever worked in environments of rarefied tech capabilities [16:10]
ben_vulpes we were making probes [16:10]
* bounce (bounce@unaffiliated/bounce) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:11]
ben_vulpes and then there's the economic differences: barista can dream of what -- going on tour? owning their own coffee shop? writing a best selling memoir about...running a coffee shop and going on tour? [16:11]
ben_vulpes process tech at least can hold out hope they'll move into mgmt if they go to night school and get that b.s. [16:11]
mod6 both emails snarffed. [16:16]
mod6 jurov: do you see any issues on your side? my signed email verifies, etc, everything looks good from my side. ^ [16:16]
mod6 anyway, im gonna move on until I know more re: ^ [16:16]
jurov yes it's likel, i updated glibc, then i said to myself might as well update whole system [16:18]
jurov will check [16:18]
mod6 ALL: the website has been updated with the newest V [v99995] [16:19]
mod6 TMSR TESTERS: I need 5 confirmations that you can build this: [16:22]
assbot ... ( ) [16:22]
jurov O.o postfix/smtpd[8072]: fatal: no SASL authentication mechanisms... on it [16:22]
mod6 Once we have confirmation, we can update the wiki -- this needs to happen TODAY. [16:22]
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mod6 gernika, shinohai, ben_vulpes, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, hanbot, et. al. ^ [16:23]
ben_vulpes aha [16:23]
ben_vulpes mod6: i was actually looking for tha [16:23]
ben_vulpes man fuck weechat's half-assed implementation of emacs/readline input controls [16:24]
ben_vulpes oh thank god [16:24]
ben_vulpes it's the weekend [16:24]
ben_vulpes i can close xcode [16:24]
phf you know what has non hasl-assed implementation of emacs/readline input controls? erc :] [16:24]
ben_vulpes phf: no bullllyyyyyy [16:25]
phf b-a is ma safe space [16:25]
ben_vulpes phf: i actually don't want irc in emacs [16:25]
mod6 thanks jurov [16:25]
ben_vulpes very distracting when it comes to getting work done. [16:25]
ben_vulpes smpt SASL << wut [16:26]
phf yeah, i agree actually [16:26]
ben_vulpes phf: i tried for a very long time with erc in a seperate emacs instance running on a server as a bouncer, and the *constant* muscle memory confusion over the subtle differences between emacs-in-terminal and emacs-with-gui drove me up a wall [16:26]
phf i was thinking of maybe disabling all chat notifications.. something i wanted to look into. i spend workweek twitch checking irc [16:26]
jurov mod6 looks like it's fixed, my test email went through.... check whether your email was queued [16:34]
jurov whether it needs to be resent [16:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27250 @ 0.00057339 = 15.6249 BTC [+] [16:39]
shinohai <<< on it [16:39]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 19:19:00; mod6: TMSR TESTERS: I need 5 confirmations that you can build this: [16:39]
mod6 thanks shinohai [16:41]
mod6 jurov: ok thanks, i'll hvae to resend later. [16:41]
jurov about a monh ago one dude offered to do the web submission form... was not heard since :( [16:42]
pete_dushenski mod6: what are the differences between 99995 and 99996_2 ? [16:43]
mod6 it's in the email that was snarffed. [16:44]
mod6 but, instead, I'll just give you some links that outline the changes in the beta emails [16:44]
* pete_dushenski goes to blackhole in outer space where snarfs live to read [16:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92800 @ 0.00056927 = 52.8283 BTC [-] {2} [16:44]
mod6 [16:44]
assbot [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta - Call For Testers! ... ( ) [16:44]
mod6 [16:45]
assbot [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta 2 - Call For Testers! ... ( ) [16:45]
mod6 [16:45]
assbot [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta 3 - Call For Testers! ... ( ) [16:45]
mod6 [16:45]
assbot [BTC-dev] V [v99995] Beta 4 - Call For Testers! ... ( ) [16:45]
mod6 pete_dushenski: if you want an actual vdiff of the changes, refer to BETA 4 email, the latest is contained. [16:46]
pete_dushenski aha. cheers! [16:46]
mod6 actually. [16:47]
mod6 99996_2 is not a V release -- it is a 'build-bitcoind' script version. [16:47]
mod6 and the difference between 99996_2 and 99995 build scripts is nothing more than updating the SHA512 for V-20160220.tar.gz and the name of the tarball. [16:48]
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mod6 but yah, anyway, the differences between V [v99996] and [v99995] are outlined in the above emails, and ya, the last one [beta 4] has a complete vdiff between the too. [16:54]
mod6 s/too/two [16:54]
asciilifeform << wai wut where was this ?? [16:55]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 19:19:15; jurov: O.o postfix/smtpd[8072]: fatal: no SASL authentication mechanisms... on it [16:55]
jurov on a mail server [16:56]
pete_dushenski mod6: cool :D [16:56]
asciilifeform << this builds ancient ver [16:58]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 19:19:00; mod6: TMSR TESTERS: I need 5 confirmations that you can build this: [16:58]
asciilifeform i mean wut, no malleus ? [16:58]
asciilifeform no verstring [16:59]
asciilifeform etc [16:59]
pete_dushenski [16:59]
assbot Logged on 13-02-2016 23:22:01; mod6: oh, because the leaf ordering is different. if you want a press of "all" patches as they exist in the mirror, currently, you need to press up through asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.vpatch [16:59]
asciilifeform hm [16:59]
asciilifeform why ? [16:59]
asciilifeform imho the scripts such as this should make it ~clear what will be pressed~ [17:00]
asciilifeform from reading with naked eye. [17:01]
jurov mod6: trying under gentoo, complains "/.wot directory does not exist." [17:01]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: i agree. but user can 'read tin' on which there is a label, or just check 'patches' folder once built [17:03]
asciilifeform no good [17:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54837 @ 0.00057339 = 31.443 BTC [+] [17:03]
asciilifeform for one thing, no label [17:03]
pete_dushenski on mailing list ? but ya, i'm stretching mod6's position, one i don't totally grok myself [17:04]
asciilifeform for other, we have a number of these sh floating around and this is maddening [17:05]
* Xuthus has quit (Quit: Xuthus) [17:06]
asciilifeform but the main thing is, i'm now inclined to agree with mircea_popescu : pressing 'to head X' is ill-specified. [17:07]
asciilifeform gotta nail down the workingset used. [17:07]
asciilifeform << this is urgently needed [17:09]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 19:39:11; jurov: about a monh ago one dude offered to do the web submission form... was not heard since :( [17:09]
asciilifeform i have maybe a dozen things i ought to sign [17:09]
asciilifeform but i simply cannot stomach turdatron any more. [17:09]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: in my admittedly meagre understanding of v, the working set is determined by the .wot set, no ? and isn't this about ? [17:09]
assbot Logged on 13-02-2016 02:06:58; mircea_popescu: trust people, not code. [17:09]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: you still have to specify the patch set [17:10]
asciilifeform it has to come from somewhere. [17:10]
asciilifeform and right now the situation is ridiculous. [17:11]
phf i have an untested uploader, takes a vpatch and a seal, lets through only a valid vpatch/seal combination. i don't think this exhaustively covers what we need though, and is also written for cmucl/araneida which is not giving me best of reliability.. [17:11]
assbot ... ( ) [17:11]
asciilifeform where do i put a patch so that everybody ~immediately~ sees it ? [17:11]
phf ^- [17:11]
asciilifeform that arm looks familiar... [17:12]
phf oh shit, scratch that, i just checked the code it's not actually saving it anywhere :) [17:15]
asciilifeform lol [17:16]
asciilifeform ideally patch hopper oughta deedbot also. [17:16]
asciilifeform and work in channel. [17:16]
phf much wip [17:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.00056711 = 34.6504 BTC [-] {3} [17:18]
asciilifeform ? [17:18]
ben_vulpes pressing to a head should simply recurse to the root of that head [17:19]
ben_vulpes i have always said this. [17:19]
ben_vulpes one thing and one thing only. [17:19]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: breaks parallel leaves [17:19]
asciilifeform ergo useless. [17:19]
jurov asciilifeform: i know! but haven't i asked like thousand time what is deedbot going to do with attachments? [17:19]
ben_vulpes explain the use of parallel leaves? [17:19]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: do you want the motherfuckng db lock fix omitted from your build?! [17:20]
asciilifeform think for a minute. [17:20]
ben_vulpes ah shit that has no descendents? [17:20]
asciilifeform while looking at the graph [17:20]
asciilifeform jurov: nfi [17:21]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: ok ok [17:22]
asciilifeform but this must be made to work. [17:22]
ben_vulpes press an explicit set of leaves? [17:22]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: that would work [17:22]
ben_vulpes ugh mod6 does this thing actually kill my terminal session when it dies? [17:23]
asciilifeform i intended this originally [17:23]
phf have a list of patches that are to be pressed made manually? [17:23]
* phf ducks [17:23]
asciilifeform phf: you don't need vtron for this, go use bare hands [17:24]
phf therein lies the joke [17:24]
BingoBoingo !b 2 [17:24]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [17:24]
asciilifeform hey if you recall, this was actually goodenuff for me [17:25]
asciilifeform i wrote v because mircea_popescu and hanbot cried [17:25]
ben_vulpes mod6: didja run off? [17:26]
asciilifeform and threatened to take up cvs or whatnot savagery [17:27]
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ben_vulpes savagery lol [17:27]
ben_vulpes french toast is what shall be delivered, bbl [17:27]
ben_vulpes mod6: script does not work for me, complains about mismatched hashes [17:27]
ben_vulpes also murdered my terminal session [17:27]
phf mod6: is there a genesis for your v vpatch chain? [17:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70582 @ 0.00057339 = 40.471 BTC [+] [17:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23585 @ 0.00057355 = 13.5272 BTC [+] [17:32]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [17:33]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 441.0, vol: 10280.57093863 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 436.85, vol: 9604.34192 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 443.5, vol: 42088.37363383 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 440.0, vol: 3.10639532 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 449.785266, vol: 60682.98270000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 440.38, vol: 1025.55959755 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 440.855667, vol: 92.03321959 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [17:33]
BingoBoingo ;;more [17:33]
gribble 445.829871266 [17:33]
BingoBoingo ^ Spread is suspicously tight. Where did the China premium go? [17:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41100 @ 0.00057325 = 23.5606 BTC [-] [17:40]
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* schmidty is now known as Guest63486 [17:42]
deedbot- [Qntra] Chainalysis Partners With Only Possible Customer - [17:44]
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ben_vulpes mod6: i am *still* getting this with gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file 'buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified! [17:44]
ben_vulpes previous hash mismatches appear to be something wacky with this gentoo vm on my macbook [17:45]
* ben_vulpes throws up hands in disgust [17:45]
ben_vulpes going to have fun running that the fuck down. [17:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54769 @ 0.00056887 = 31.1564 BTC [-] [17:49]
phf favorite gpgme error, "err-no-error" [17:53]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: do you have buildroot dood's dsa sig in your gpg keyring ? [18:02]
pete_dushenski *dsa key [18:02]
pete_dushenski [18:03]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 07:13:38; assbot: Logged on 02-01-2016 05:43:08; phf: gpg: key 59C36319: public key "Peter Korsgaard " imported [18:03]
ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: i'd expect an entirely different error should that have been the case [18:12]
ben_vulpes and yes i have it in my keychain [18:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19472 @ 0.00056897 = 11.079 BTC [+] {2} [18:13]
ben_vulpes that's right, that part of the build scripts runs with the user gpg keychain [18:14]
ben_vulpes STATE [18:14]
ben_vulpes AUGH [18:14]
pete_dushenski lol [18:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @ 0.0005686 = 25.9282 BTC [-] {2} [18:22]
mircea_popescu << computer assisted dating, also. [18:24]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 17:56:45; punkman: has anyone done a computer-assisted human player go tournament? [18:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92700 @ 0.00056646 = 52.5108 BTC [-] {3} [18:25]
mircea_popescu << starbux barrista probably takes one week on on the workplace. [18:26]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 19:04:49; ben_vulpes: "what it takes 6 months to train a barista from nothing, and 6 months to make a useful process tech!" [18:26]
mircea_popescu what "train" [18:26]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: no i did not go into each idiocy in depth [18:27]
mircea_popescu << stop trying to resist the lure of the b-a commissariat! [18:29]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 19:22:54; phf: yeah, i agree actually [18:29]
mod6 ok did a build on my gentoo with '' and looks fine: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4889056 Feb 20 21:24 bitcoind [18:32]
mod6 ben_vulpes, shinohai, jurov [18:33]
mod6 let's get some pastes and see what's goin on here. [18:33]
ben_vulpes just dumb shit mod6 [18:33]
mod6 <+phf> mod6: is there a genesis for your v vpatch chain? << not until i finally get this thing working. [18:33]
mod6 ben_vulpes: are you saying that it doesn't work? or that it was just that you didn't have whatever rando guys' key in your keyring? [18:34]
ben_vulpes no, just that i keep seeing that error. [18:34]
ben_vulpes and that i suspect gpg means to convey that it is not actually checking the sig. [18:34]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: [18:34]
assbot ... ( ) [18:35]
jurov mod6: [18:35]
assbot dpaste: 3W7EQM4: V99995 ... ( ) [18:35]
mod6 ben_vulpes: ok. lemme check on mine. [18:35]
mod6 ugh. im so tired of this fucking shit. [18:35]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes aha ? [18:35]
ben_vulpes mod6: i don't think the file hashing mismatch is worth digging into [18:36]
ben_vulpes i suspect it has to do with mounting a filesystem into a vm [18:37]
mod6 mine doesn't do that at all. [18:37]
ben_vulpes blows up on the .gitignore which iirc is an empty file [18:37]
mod6 i have not seen that in the MONTH of testing that i've been doing. [18:37]
ben_vulpes mod6: well you're not trying to mount a fs from a mac into a gentoo vm i don't think [18:37]
mod6 shinohai: you saw something similar too right? [18:37]
mircea_popescu mod6 love computers yet ? :D [18:37]
mod6 i hate computers. yes. [18:37]
mod6 kill them all. [18:37]
mircea_popescu :))) [18:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99316 @ 0.00057126 = 56.7353 BTC [+] {2} [18:38]
deedbot- [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] How to be a pimp – a simple yet understandable and still exhaustive guide, translated. - [18:38]
mod6 these godddam fucking cocksuckers are going to give ole mod6 a heart attack. [18:38]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell gabrielradio my turn on your turn is live. thanks for the assist :) [18:39]
gribble The operation succeeded. [18:39]
jurov let's come play eulora instead and watch few bitcents of stuff go *poof* ! [18:39]
mod6 <+jurov> mod6: trying under gentoo, complains "/.wot directory does not exist." << create your .wot in the same dir that you place the build script, create a log of your findings, and see what happens plz. [18:39]
mircea_popescu jurov noob just turned 1 adze + 30 threads into 40k. [18:39]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> but the main thing is, i'm now inclined to agree with mircea_popescu : pressing 'to head X' is ill-specified. << ok but how should this work [18:40]
ben_vulpes mod6: see the rest of the thread. provide an explicit list of leaves to press. [18:40]
jurov mod6 did "cp -rp ~/.wot ." , same result [18:41]
mod6 i can't do this. [18:41]
mircea_popescu uh [18:41]
mod6 this is too much work for one guy. [18:41]
jurov it insists on having .wot in / [18:41]
mod6 we need someone to maintain a V that makes sense. [18:41]
mircea_popescu mod6 take it easy for a second, will you ? nopanic! [18:41]
pete_dushenski mod6: breathe ! [18:41]
mod6 jurov: the changes to V look for .wot and .seals in the pwd. [18:41]
jurov mircea_popescu: why are you telling me that? [18:42]
mod6 is your pwd / ? [18:42]
mircea_popescu i thought maybe you wanted to know where your cents went! [18:42]
jurov mod6 see the paste - no it is not. [18:42]
* mod6 looks [18:42]
mod6 why in the world do I work on shit for a month, post betas all the way, and then we hit these issues now? [18:42]
pete_dushenski mod6: fwiw i'm endlessly appreciative of the work you've done thus far. you make noobing trb possible :) [18:43]
mod6 jurov: [18:43]
mod6 ok, so first, get rid of this crud [18:43]
mircea_popescu mod6 it's seriously how it happens. same thing with eulora and everything else. [18:43]
mod6 "LC_ALL=C LANG=C" [18:43]
mod6 then place .wot in "/data/juro/btc/V99995" [18:44]
mod6 if it is, then there might be some sort of issue. i'll have to dig in to that. can you try maybe just clearing everything and trying again? [18:44]
* felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [18:44]
shinohai mod6 the .gitignore comes from not removing the old directory [18:45]
mod6 what old dir? [18:45]
mod6 please start clean on this. [18:45]
jurov mod6 i have somalian locales, but with or without them it's the same result [18:45]
mod6 new build dir, the whole 9 [18:45]
jurov cleaned up eveything, there is now only .wot and, same result [18:45]
shinohai if you have a rotor dir and try to run script it fails. [18:46]
mod6 yup [18:46]
mod6 ok clean. [18:46]
mircea_popescu << would we do me the favour and quote me when we agree with me like this as i have nfi what this is. also <<< what stupid shit is this! specify THE PATCH SET ? fu! you mean specify the wot and the genesis ? [18:46]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 20:03:57; asciilifeform: but the main thing is, i'm now inclined to agree with mircea_popescu : pressing 'to head X' is ill-specified. [18:46]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 20:07:06; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you still have to specify the patch set [18:46]
ben_vulpes mod6: testing cycle in #b-a is slow as sin [18:47]
mircea_popescu i ain't specifying no list of patches wtf. [18:47]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes really ? i thought it was pretty fast for an actual test cycle ? [18:47]
mod6 ben_vulpes: yah, and when you're testing in production, this can't be a thing. [18:47]
mod6 this is the worst of all worlds. [18:47]
mircea_popescu << if you send them to me ima mail them o.O [18:47]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 20:06:20; asciilifeform: but i simply cannot stomach turdatron any more. [18:47]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: only if "actual test cycles" only means "#b-a test cycles" [18:48]
ben_vulpes and yes, things are getting faster. [18:48]
mircea_popescu mod6 im telling you , dunno if you read that log or not : you need a separate testing genesis. [18:48]
mod6 until we finally get a test branch and so on and so forth, this stuff has to be ~perfect~ or we've got zip [18:48]
BingoBoingo Oh, the urls that lead spam nowadays [18:48]
mircea_popescu the pointer in that convo is currently at but do read the prev. [18:48]
assbot ... ( ) [18:48]
assbot Logged on 17-02-2016 05:22:12; mircea_popescu: punkman well, let's see what the others say. i faintly dislike the idea on morale grounds, but it's not the end of the world [18:48]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: not a list of patches a list of *leaves* [18:48]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes no fucking list of anything. genesis item and wot. [18:48]
mircea_popescu wtf! [18:49]
ben_vulpes "i want everything necessary for malleus and db locks" [18:49]
mircea_popescu i never said that. [18:49]
ben_vulpes did i say that you did?! [18:49]
mircea_popescu who are you quoting then ? or what is that ? [18:49]
phf asciilifeform said that [18:50]
ben_vulpes what one might say to a V implementation. [18:50]
mircea_popescu one who is broken in the head may say that. [18:50]
mircea_popescu the only sane thing to say to V is "i want the bitcoin as these gentlement think it is best " [18:50]
ben_vulpes then press to a release patch, fin. [18:50]
ben_vulpes what you and i need from V diverge. [18:51]
mircea_popescu does what i and you need from a hammer also diverge ? [18:51]
ben_vulpes unless you expect it to be only and ever a release tool and not a tool for people actually working on the thing to use in their workflow. [18:52]
mircea_popescu it seems somewhat improbable that you'll be using your penis for both making children and doing your plumbing. [18:52]
ben_vulpes you - want to sink nails. i want to pull them out occasionally. [18:52]
mircea_popescu but in this i may be wrong. [18:52]
ben_vulpes perhaps i am laboring under the misapprehension that v should be useful for something other than putting software on mircea_popescu's box [18:53]
mircea_popescu should bitcoin also be useful for something more other than ~dependably~ keeping track of moneyz ? [18:53]
mircea_popescu perhaps... to help african children ? or other groups dear to our hearts ? [18:53]
ben_vulpes *i* want to press specified patch sets without doing so by hand. [18:53]
mircea_popescu good! fine! [18:53]
mircea_popescu and you want emacs to i dunno what ! who's keepin ya! [18:54]
ben_vulpes you will get a release patch and you will press to it. there is your hammer. [18:54]
ben_vulpes there is the "bitcoin as these gentlemen" [18:55]
mircea_popescu i don't like you enough to prefer you over the exactly equivalent windows release process just because your name is ben vulpes not bill gates. [18:55]
mircea_popescu the idea is to have diverse coder process, and a lot of fuckign toi land trouble on tghe coders, for maximal output quality. [18:55]
mod6 jurov: this is what i'm seeing on my gentoo fwiw: [18:55]
assbot ... ( ) [18:55]
mircea_popescu the idea is exctly NOT to have coder comfort and sanity at the expense of "this is the user's script" [18:55]
mod6 im not sure why yours is saying that. [18:55]
jurov mod6 `pwd` returns nothing on my machine /o [18:55]
mod6 then your machine is hosed. [18:56]
mircea_popescu jurov that's a new one ?! [18:56]
ben_vulpes how is this "user's script" not precisely the windows release? [18:56]
mod6 ok, i haven't eaten in like nearly 2 days. so im gonn walk away and get a bite. [18:56]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes that's what i said. [18:56]
* Hasimir has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [18:57]
* TheAdversary has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [18:57]
* mircea_popescu realises that the enthusiastic approval was merely intellectual, and code monkey habits will die fucking hard in the best intended of people. o brother, what we have before us. [18:57]
ben_vulpes try like i'm five, the windows comparison is shorting me out [18:58]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i've been sitting here trying to get this in saner terms. [19:00]
mircea_popescu let's use this angle : do you understand what i mean in that ancient article about how coherence in the wot is the worst attack on the wot ? [19:00]
mircea_popescu which is why things such as "official best policy for X" never even got to the discussion phase, as i've always torpedoed it ? [19:01]
ben_vulpes from 'how the wot is attacked'? [19:01]
mircea_popescu yes. [19:01]
ben_vulpes so bear with me: how is 'v' not groupthink incarnate? [19:03]
mircea_popescu your v apparently is. hence my windoes comment. [19:03]
mircea_popescu but V itself is not, at all. [19:03]
* ben_vulpes is hit by a particularly unpleasant revelatory wave [19:04]
mircea_popescu hence it's not as much what we "want" from our tools per se. merely what we expect them to be [19:04]
mircea_popescu ie, it's easy to pick on alf about his enamourement with the mental-usg, mostly because he's so "naively" open and upfront about it. [19:04]
mircea_popescu but the insanity is found in all heads. [19:04]
mircea_popescu and subtle - which is to say just subtle enough to avoid detection by the head it sits in. [19:05]
ben_vulpes i should simply expect misery from you every time i bring up the topic of how a v might work then? [19:06]
mircea_popescu in any case - v, as any new coin, has to get diversely seeded so it may survive, which is the scary step before us right now. [19:06]
mircea_popescu mno, ideally we'll discuss this to the point we are happily getting it [19:06]
mircea_popescu but understand that in any perspective, there's something fundamentally broken with telling V "press me this list of nodes". conceivably it may be useful as a graph-debugging tool, but it is not a v-ism. [19:08]
mircea_popescu it is in fact the llvm-ing of the v. [19:08]
* ben_vulpes fully adrift now, without even a sun to tell east from west [19:09]
mircea_popescu ;/ [19:09]
ben_vulpes the turning of a compiler which should simply ingest code and shit elfs into a developer-centric tool? [19:10]
ben_vulpes 'code monkey' excuse me [19:10]
mircea_popescu mno. the enveloping of a tool which by its functioning and nature guarantees a free world into a sufficient wall so as to be safely operated by the opposite. [19:11]
mircea_popescu i understand that the pressure to say "oh it's the weekend can turn xcode off" EVERY SINGLE FUCKING WEEK is well driven psychologically. [19:12]
ben_vulpes i am not well versed enough in the history of gcc and llvm to understand this. [19:12]
mircea_popescu do understand that it is simply not acceptable in new things. [19:12]
BingoBoingo More "history rhymes" [19:13]
assbot And as for actual WordPress pingbacks .... you should probably switch 'em off • The Register ... ( ) [19:13]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes well i dunno how to better approach this. how about you construct syllogisms and we see where it takes us ? [19:13]
mod6 alright gentlemen. [19:17]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo note how they STILL WON'T FIX THE MOTHERFUCKING HOLE. instead, how about to destroy more of the interconnected nature of the web ? "automattic got usg's back - turn off other people and only talk to disqus!!1" [19:17]
mircea_popescu asswipes. [19:17]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Yup [19:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101610 @ 0.00056522 = 57.432 BTC [-] {2} [19:17]
mod6 I'm gonna eat something, probably overly hangry here. [19:18]
mircea_popescu really mod6 no reason to get worked up. [19:18]
mod6 if you encounter any issues, let's do what jurov did and dpaste 'em, we'll get through this one step at a time tonight. [19:18]
mircea_popescu you're doing very well in everyone's estimation, your deadline is self imposed, not the end of the world. [19:18]
mod6 thanks mircea_popescu. I'm doing my best -- I need to get us in a non-disjointed situation, hence the self-imposed deadline here. [19:19]
mircea_popescu yeah but simmer down atlas. we want you to live longer than the road there. [19:19]
mod6 Ok. Will do, Sir. [19:20]
mod6 Thanks for everyone taking the time, I know it's not pain-free with some of this stuff yet. [19:20]
mircea_popescu << ridiculous is not a reason to go back to the fucking insane asylum! [19:21]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 20:07:44; asciilifeform: and right now the situation is ridiculous. [19:21]
ben_vulpes thanks mod6, no need to kill yourself driving at 90mph [19:21]
mircea_popescu actually ben_vulpes it occurs to me, maybe the following description of final state is helpful : [19:23]
ben_vulpes i'm still trying to cook up a syllogism over here [19:23]
mircea_popescu moe finds bitcoin in 2056, long after the republic prevailed, through his gf at the time. he steals her script, copies her .wot directory and now has a node! [19:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68650 @ 0.00056839 = 39.02 BTC [+] [19:24]
mircea_popescu he decides he wants to add three lines of code to bitcoin. what HE does, in republican world, is write those lines of code, sign them, add his own sig in the wot and voila. [19:24]
mircea_popescu the girl, upon visiting, notices this, likes the functionality, and either a) signs herself or b) imports his sig in her wot. [19:24]
mircea_popescu depends how good the fucking was. a) is more discrete. [19:24]
mircea_popescu people in the senate floor of the most serene republic notice the silly things the kids are doing in bed these days and lo! ben_vulpes signs it, which makes that snipped suddenly go into a bunch of servers. [19:25]
mircea_popescu or maybe phf rebases it into a change of his and signs that. [19:25]
mircea_popescu CONTRARY to this sane process, in the empire alt-universe, may it piss in its own eyes, [19:26]
mircea_popescu guy tries to find the "source of power" by doing inane wikipedia-level shit, then tries to make friends with the people and put his fucking code in, to FORCE it upon the fucking userbase. [19:26]
mircea_popescu now : list of nodes necessarily maintains some sort of portion of alt-universe. [19:26]
mircea_popescu and i really don't want any of it to survive. [19:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00056839 = 8.9521 BTC [+] [19:28]
mircea_popescu the important parts here being that v does away with the concept of developer control over code ; and with the concept of code ownership ; and instead introduces the concept of signature-driven responsibility. [19:28]
mircea_popescu and you may NEVER say to any user "your program is not working correctly because you've not given tyhe developer enough control over it". this is anathema, and the source of the "llvm-ization" comment. [19:29]
ben_vulpes strictly a release tool for the free world, then. [19:34]
ben_vulpes old habits do die hard. [19:34]
* trinque has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [19:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41850 @ 0.00057355 = 24.0031 BTC [+] [19:36]
mircea_popescu it hastabe. there's nothing wroing with you running anything you wish, to help in any manner you choose, and even distribute it on its own v line [19:36]
mircea_popescu but it can't be what it is today, "please update your autoupdater now!" [19:36]
ben_vulpes heh [19:37]
ben_vulpes i think that i understand the windows comment now [19:37]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell mod6 works fine on something approaching a sane computer [19:39]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:39]
jurov mod6 i have rebuilt my perl, now it fails to verify against 59C36319 [19:43]
jurov which is Peter Korsgaard uclibc pubkey [19:44]
jurov when i imported it into my gpg keyring and reran, it goes [19:45]
ben_vulpes jurov: yes, this script uses the user keyring [19:45]
ben_vulpes how this came to be i do not know [19:46]
phf "i, ordained computron mircea lifeform, in the year of our republic 1932, having devoted three months to the verification of checksums, with my heart pure and my press clean, sit down to transcribe vee patch ascii_limits_hack, signed by the illustrious asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes and all saints." [19:48]
jurov !b 1 [19:50]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [19:50]
mircea_popescu lol [19:52]
mircea_popescu point taken, but it is unavoidable. [19:52]
mircea_popescu laugh if you will, laugh if you must, do what must be done and not an iota less. [19:52]
mircea_popescu the zombie world entirely exists out of that iota less. [19:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117576 @ 0.00057027 = 67.0501 BTC [-] {3} [19:57]
BingoBoingo HARD FORK SEGWIT [20:00]
assbot Bitcoin Roundtable Consensus — Medium ... ( ) [20:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52222 @ 0.00056455 = 29.4819 BTC [-] [20:01]
mircea_popescu alrighty then, for the n-th fucking time, this blabla. [20:05]
mircea_popescu Kevin Pan, Anatoly Legkodymov, Larry Salibra, Leonhard Weese, Cory Fields, Johnson Lau, Matt Corallo, Peter Todd, Kang Xie, [20:05]
mircea_popescu Phil Potter, Valery Vavilov, Alex Petrov, Jihan Wu, Micree Zhan, James Hilliard, Yoshi Goto, Alex Shultz, Bobby Lee, Samson Mow, Robin Yao, Obi Nwosu, Mark Lamb, Wang Chun, Marco Streng, Marco Krohn, Wu Gang, Adam Back, Jack Liao, Jack Liu and Guy Corem are to be negrated on sight. [20:05]
mircea_popescu nobody is to use AntPool, A-XBT, Bitfinex, BitFury, Bitmain, BIT-X Exchange, Blockcloud, BTCC, Coinfloor, F2Pool, HaoBTC, Ledger, LIGHTNINGASIC & BitExchange, OKCoin or Spondoolies-Tech for any purpose under any circumstances, or ever hire anyone who ever worked there. [20:05]
mircea_popescu and with that... see you on judgement day, derps. [20:05]
mircea_popescu buncha posturing fucktards. [20:06]
BingoBoingo EMBARGO! which spelled backwards is O GRAB ME [20:07]
mircea_popescu lol [20:07]
mircea_popescu no idea who the fuck uses any of that crap anyway, but w/e. [20:07]
mircea_popescu i will get around to bricking antpool/f2pool out of business before i'm done with this life, though. [20:08]
* BingoBoingo can't wait for halving [20:08]
mircea_popescu are any of those schmucks in the wot even ? [20:12]
mircea_popescu << random example. not a single proper key in sight. fucktard. [20:13]
assbot Search results for 'back adam' ... ( ) [20:13]
BingoBoingo I dunno. [20:13]
BingoBoingo Caught one [20:15]
assbot Rating Details for User 'BlueMatt' ... ( ) [20:15]
mircea_popescu !rated bluematt [20:15]
assbot You rated user bluematt on 06-May-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: one of the very few dudes in -dev actually doing something useful.. [20:15]
mircea_popescu !rate bluematt -1 historically respectable bitcoin tester, recently joined forces with known scammers a la Luke-Jr and assorted nobodies in a doomed if lulzy effort to break bitcoin. [20:16]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [20:16]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.bluematt.-1:e5351e13fcfcf737a1944692afd5b18ff3da8f9f5ab758e6dc9ab246f4ecbbe1 [20:16]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for bluematt from 1 to -1 with note: historically respectable bitcoin tester, recently joined forces with known scammers a la Luke-Jr and assorted nobodies in a doomed if lulzy effort to break bitcoin. [20:16]
mircea_popescu !rated petertodd [20:16]
assbot You rated user petertodd on 01-May-2013, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: the gift cert expert.. [20:16]
mircea_popescu !rate petertodd -1 random schmuck with bizarre pretensions. [20:17]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [20:17]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.petertodd.-1:6215861df810e25c971f9be4c49a19e89ca1076647faa992dc03014663b0e207 [20:17]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for petertodd from 2 to -1 with note: random schmuck with bizarre pretensions. [20:17]
mircea_popescu !rated pgp [20:20]
assbot You have not rated pgp. [20:20]
mircea_popescu !rate pgp -1 random schmuck with bizarre pretensions. [20:20]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [20:20]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.pgp.-1:03a52b052a85fd5c2db64a8c3c246194af63db19e1c77048045f7077602e6f15 [20:20]
assbot Successfully added a rating of -1 for pgp with note: random schmuck with bizarre pretensions. [20:20]
BingoBoingo !v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.bluematt.-1:f55911525410a89ff1abb6645bfa7c0129b365c610a03b0f1df6b5f406605ce3 [20:21]
assbot Successfully added a rating of -1 for bluematt with note: joined coup attempt [20:21]
BingoBoingo !v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.petertodd.-1:b32d91457d6e7248c0ec9c9637bc394334bf33bbcdd0db0c776e16937f70f509 [20:22]
assbot Successfully added a rating of -1 for petertodd with note: joined coup attempt [20:22]
mircea_popescu "Bobby Lee (n. San Diego, California, 17 de septiembre de 1972), es un actor y comediante estadounidense". mkay. [20:23]
jurov mod6 it did compiled! [20:28]
BingoBoingo Luke-Jr: "Because the cost of increasing the limit is lower than the benefits of peace/not constant fighting and showing that Bitcoin can in fact do a hardfork." [20:29]
assbot Final Version - Bitcoin Roundtable Consensus : Bitcoin ... ( ) [20:29]
mats lol [20:29]
mircea_popescu obviously. what's bum with a reputation of bfl shilling/fraud got to lose ? costs 0 for him. [20:29]
mircea_popescu at least chinese twerps pay for a meal. [20:29]
mircea_popescu ~same as "what does it cost wesley snipes to advertise gasoline saving magnets. already convicted felon anyway." [20:30]
mircea_popescu the costs go to the idiots BUYING. it'd better not cost the "actor, cantante y comediante estadounidense" jack shit, that's the fucking point of advertising to consumers. [20:31]
asciilifeform << this is what i said all along [20:32]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 22:33:29; mircea_popescu: but it can't be what it is today, "please update your autoupdater now!" [20:32]
mircea_popescu ok! [20:33]
asciilifeform NO to ANY networking code in v! [20:33]
mircea_popescu as long as it works fine without, i see no problem with it being there, but either way. [20:33]
mircea_popescu eventually you'll have gossipd and will want gossipd-based networking [20:34]
asciilifeform and when i said 'patch set' it means that - like it or not - you gotta get them somewhere. [20:34]
mircea_popescu for now curl - after victory, gossipd! [20:34]
asciilifeform for now local disk [20:34]
mircea_popescu or that. [20:35]
asciilifeform the central repository thing is ultra-broken [20:35]
ben_vulpes ahaha phil went derp? [20:35]
BingoBoingo Who's phil? [20:36]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i suppose he just ended up in the wrong "have a catered lunch on us" line. [20:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's a point. [20:36]
asciilifeform to the point where i cannot even release a patch because wtf, against ~what~ do i patch [20:36]
mircea_popescu against what you have. [20:36]
asciilifeform did this, and mod6 had to redo it all [20:37]
mircea_popescu of course. this is intentional and by design. [20:37]
asciilifeform << this is dwim. [20:37]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 22:26:08; mircea_popescu: and you may NEVER say to any user "your program is not working correctly because you've not given tyhe developer enough control over it". this is anathema, and the source of the "llvm-ization" comment. [20:37]
asciilifeform sorry. [20:37]
mircea_popescu huh ? [20:37]
asciilifeform we know that mircea_popescu likes beating, but you will not make a horse fly by extra-strong beating [20:38]
mircea_popescu be specific! [20:38]
ben_vulpes wow and world trade financial group is no longer even a thing [20:39]
ben_vulpes [20:39]
asciilifeform nothing is gained by rewriting same crud 1001 times. [20:39]
assbot World Trade Financial Group | About Us ... ( ) [20:39]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform ... [20:40]
asciilifeform and there is not nor cannot be a guarantee that you can go from names to build automagically [20:40]
mircea_popescu "nothing is gained by rewriting same crud 1001 times." relates to " this is dwim." how ? other than "this stuff bothers me immensely" [20:40]
asciilifeform the patch set must physically come from somewhere. [20:40]
asciilifeform say - where ! [20:41]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes wait, were you at c1 and i forget ?! [20:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not specified where. [20:41]
mircea_popescu none of your business personally where either. [20:41]
mircea_popescu if i find it in a fucking bottle in the east river, my problem. [20:41]
mircea_popescu discussing code provenance is like discussing bitcoin taint. [20:41]
mircea_popescu is it signed or isn't it ? [20:42]
asciilifeform patches depend on previous patches. [20:42]
mircea_popescu only in some worlds. [20:42]
phf ben_vulpes: i went derp, or that's some other phil? [20:42]
mircea_popescu in other worlds - different bitcoin entirely runs, or same runs under different name or w/e. [20:42]
mircea_popescu phf no afaik that's the phil potter in question. [20:43]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nobody stops mircea_popescu from living in a private universe. [20:43]
mircea_popescu all universes must be private in this sense. [20:43]
phf ah, word. the juxtaposition of ascii's comment about central repo.. [20:43]
mircea_popescu the delusion of "shared" universe is quintessential to the problem of "poetteringization" [20:43]
asciilifeform on the other hand, a bunch of folks here are trying to trb [20:43]
ben_vulpes "Phil Potter
Chief Strategy Officer
asciilifeform and can't entirely move to separate planets [20:44]
ben_vulpes dag [20:44]
mircea_popescu i dun get what you mean asciilifeform [20:44]
mircea_popescu can you be specific ? [20:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 207300 @ 0.00057355 = 118.8969 BTC [+] [20:44]
ben_vulpes phf: no, pgp. [20:44]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes if you recall the mjr guy or what's his name was here trying to mealy mouthedly take the temperature re bitfinex last time they did a scam cycle. [20:45]
asciilifeform [20:45]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 23:33:14; asciilifeform: to the point where i cannot even release a patch because wtf, against ~what~ do i patch [20:45]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: lol no i do not [20:45]
mircea_popescu you don't "release" a patch. [20:45]
mircea_popescu fucking sign whatever you want to run, if people like it they'll run it and if not whatevs. [20:45]
mircea_popescu this whole "we are developers herp" thing is prb not trb. [20:45]
ben_vulpes but aha i do recall that mjr and pgp were in the same room a few times [20:45]
mircea_popescu and i would very much like it be the case that some folks here actually want to specifically trbn [20:45]
mircea_popescu rather than "let's try prb with better people, it'll work this time" [20:46]
mircea_popescu it didn't work for prb, it didn't work for anything, including scbl and xml/html. [20:46]
asciilifeform its a people difference though [20:46]
asciilifeform not machine [20:46]
mircea_popescu o brother. [20:46]
mircea_popescu good people in specific circumstances produce usg no matter what they individually may choose. [20:46]
mircea_popescu take them out of that swamp already. [20:46]
asciilifeform i see no evidence for this. [20:46]
asciilifeform their ~children~ usg, yes [20:47]
mircea_popescu sigh. [20:47]
* asciilifeform brb [20:47]
deedbot- [Qntra] Khmer Rouge Leader Pleas Social Justice In Court - [21:07]
* pete_dushenski immediately thought of only to realise that he was racialistically lumping all the s.e. asian 20th century massacres together [21:10]
assbot Logged on 20-01-2016 01:24:01; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ever see film ? [21:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81400 @ 0.00057322 = 46.6601 BTC [-] [21:10]
pete_dushenski for shame. [21:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71550 @ 0.00056821 = 40.6554 BTC [-] {2} [21:11]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Gotta keep them straight. What if you must leave America's hat for the malarial side of the ocean? [21:12]
pete_dushenski america's hat's pretty enormous. there's always another corner of desolate tundra with satellite internet to set up camp in. [21:13]
BingoBoingo I guess you just have to stay one step ahead of the sandminers? [21:14]
pete_dushenski sandniggers too. [21:15]
* mod6 reads [21:21]
mod6 works fine on something approaching a sane computer << ok cool! [21:21]
mod6 <+jurov> mod6 it did compiled! << wonderful! [21:21]
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ben_vulpes that sweet song of "clean socks for you! clean shirts for you!" [21:35]
mod6 nice [21:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00056275 = 29.1505 BTC [-] {3} [21:38]
phf asciilifeform: around? [21:39]
asciilifeform aha [21:39]
asciilifeform just in. [21:39]
phf i can't figure out which patches are actually shiva patches. there's "(EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva." and then sometime after there's "Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge." [21:40]
phf i take it the combination of the two is what one uses to press shiva? [21:40]
asciilifeform << this and this only. [21:41]
assbot [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( ) [21:41]
asciilifeform please throw out the old crud. [21:41]
asciilifeform afaik we don't presently have a vtron that is capable of digesting everything incl. the old crud. [21:41]
asciilifeform the pedigree bridge isn't for pressing either. [21:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32841 @ 0.0005596 = 18.3778 BTC [-] [21:42]
asciilifeform it exists to ~demonstrate~ that shiva-tinyscheme was created from the tinyscheme-genesis [21:42]
asciilifeform you can in fact do this, by pressing the latter, and then the former [21:42]
asciilifeform but this is unfortunately not a vtronic operation, because we have idiot diff and not a turing-complete vtron. [21:42]
phf but none of these patches contain code that actually touches the bitcoin source [21:44]
asciilifeform only shiva-part-2 [21:44]
asciilifeform which necessarily does [21:44]
asciilifeform the split was deliberate [21:44]
phf ooh, so shiva part 2 is the btc tree thing, where's the tinyscheme genesis is where you get the tinyscheme dependency? [21:45]
asciilifeform in same link. [21:45]
asciilifeform or rather, that link ~is~ tinyscheme-genesis [21:45]
phf right [21:45]
asciilifeform the bridge, if applied, will turn the tinyscheme into the contents of the shiva subdir in shiva-part-1 [21:46]
asciilifeform (you will have to rename the dir manually, because DIFF IS RETARDED) [21:46]
asciilifeform and MUST DIE [21:46]
asciilifeform currenly shiva is ~~AND~~ . [21:47]
assbot [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( ) [21:47]
assbot [BTC-dev] Shiva bug fix. ... ( ) [21:47]
asciilifeform ^^ the only things you need to actually build it ^^ [21:47]
asciilifeform << sooo we have the long-awaited miner usgization ? [21:50]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 23:02:29; mircea_popescu: nobody is to use AntPool, A-XBT, Bitfinex, BitFury, Bitmain, BIT-X Exchange, Blockcloud, BTCC, Coinfloor, F2Pool, HaoBTC, Ledger, LIGHTNINGASIC & BitExchange, OKCoin or Spondoolies-Tech for any purpose under any circumstances, or ever hire anyone who ever worked there. [21:50]
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mircea_popescu whatever this is. [21:52]
mircea_popescu odds are it's like last time "they lied about me agreeing", etc. [21:53]
mircea_popescu but whatevs it may be. [21:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33883 @ 0.0005596 = 18.9609 BTC [-] [21:54]
asciilifeform so i reread the mega-thread, [21:56]
asciilifeform and tentatively conclude that mircea_popescu wants everybody to have own vtree [21:58]
deedbot- [Trilema] Valmont - [21:58]
asciilifeform and hand-backport whenever these are to converge. [21:58]
asciilifeform which is sorta like what we did before v. [21:58]
asciilifeform now, this makes life very easy for mircea_popescu, or so he thinks, because he can go 'i want a mod6 tree' [21:59]
asciilifeform except - 1) he still have to get the actual contents of that thing somewhere [21:59]
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asciilifeform 2) what if he wants, e.g., a mod6+ben_vulpes tree. [21:59]
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asciilifeform but i see what he wants in say. [22:00]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 22:22:12; mircea_popescu: people in the senate floor of the most serene republic notice the silly things the kids are doing in bed these days and lo! ben_vulpes signs it, which makes that snipped suddenly go into a bunch of servers. [22:00]
asciilifeform for there to not be any such thing as could resemble an 'update throne' [22:00]
asciilifeform that a derp could one day sit down on. [22:01]
asciilifeform but i say that the proposed method of achieving this, is rather primitive and by no means reliable. [22:01]
asciilifeform it is quite the same as 'we will abolish indoor spaces! no palaces, so there can be no thrones' [22:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100650 @ 0.0005663 = 56.9981 BTC [+] {2} [22:09]
asciilifeform << does mircea_popescu fully understand that there is NO MACHINE MERGING in v ? [22:10]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 21:52:20; mircea_popescu: the idea is to have diverse coder process, and a lot of fuckign toi land trouble on tghe coders, for maximal output quality. [22:10]
asciilifeform that is, if we end up in the position where every developer has own tree, and mircea_popescu is not content to go, e.g., 'gimme what mod6 has' - then ~mircea_popescu~ will have to 'toil and trouble' and hand-merge ? [22:11]
asciilifeform the machine - will not do it ! [22:11]
asciilifeform and yes, this is mega-decentralized and entirely unlike what gavin does and etc. etc. [22:11]
asciilifeform why not we also hang upside-down while doing it. [22:11]
asciilifeform will be even more ungavin. [22:11]
BingoBoingo [22:20]
assbot Valmont on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [22:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah. [22:23]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is a defensible perspective but it leaves me wondering wtf you were doing when founded a trb foundation ! a throne omg!!1111111 [22:23]
BingoBoingo so, Inversion tables join "edgerouter lite" on TMSR shopping list? [22:23]
mircea_popescu a throne what ? [22:24]
asciilifeform see thread [22:24]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ?? [22:24]
mircea_popescu i am but i dun follow. [22:24]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: For hanging upside down [22:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's a centralized thing! that an idiot one day could get to the wheel of ! [22:24]
mircea_popescu the foundation ? [22:24]
asciilifeform aha [22:24]
mircea_popescu it's just a convenience. it's not a fucking usg tendril. [22:24]
asciilifeform vs every man with own manually-curated tree [22:24]
asciilifeform aha, convenience. [22:25]
mircea_popescu right. [22:25]
asciilifeform but ~what~ does it make convenient ? [22:25]
asciilifeform as i understand, it is a thing that mircea_popescu considers sinful ? [22:25]
asciilifeform that is, folks agreeing to work on a same tree [22:25]
mircea_popescu principally atm, that mod6 is running like a mad dog trying to keep on top of everyone's patches. [22:25]
mircea_popescu i don't see folks agreeing to anything. i see mod6 putting in a lot of blood. [22:25]
assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 462 @ 0.00254173 = 1.1743 BTC [+] {2} [22:26]
mircea_popescu this is as it should be, incidentally, tho the original design was for there to be 2 people who then add more. [22:26]
asciilifeform iirc he was mainly bleeding to get his vtron up to par ? [22:26]
asciilifeform (which is a mighty spiffy thing!) [22:26]
mircea_popescu well, without getting into the nitty details. [22:26]
mircea_popescu but the point remains : having a trb foundation on the solid foundation of a v environment IS a convenience. [22:26]
mircea_popescu having a centralising pos a la vessenes faux foundation on top of the broken process non-v, is a disaster. [22:27]
mircea_popescu a disaster ot which naggum's lifeless body doth attest. [22:27]
asciilifeform i don't see prb or the xml circus as 'good people, good intentions, bad tool' [22:27]
mircea_popescu bad ~environment~. [22:28]
asciilifeform i see it as imbeciles setting out to do evil things and succeeding. [22:28]
mircea_popescu this is your privilege, as a believer in animism. [22:28]
asciilifeform and the few intelligent, honest folk, along for the ride [22:28]
mircea_popescu nevertheless, reality contains no divine manifestation. [22:28]
asciilifeform because there was no other ride. [22:28]
mircea_popescu the fact remains that in all attempts of building things atop non-v environments (specifically : ) result in the same thing. [22:29]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 22:25:16; mircea_popescu: the important parts here being that v does away with the concept of developer control over code ; and with the concept of code ownership ; and instead introduces the concept of signature-driven responsibility. [22:29]
mircea_popescu you choose to view this as a sign of the omnipotence of usg. [22:29]
mircea_popescu it is not, but merely the necessary result of trying to keep milk in reed baskets. [22:30]
asciilifeform actually it is the omnipotence of regression-to-the-mean [22:30]
mircea_popescu whatever you call the deity today. [22:30]
asciilifeform this one has demonstrable teeth. [22:30]
asciilifeform witness nick-2 vs peter-1 [22:30]
mircea_popescu they all have demonstrable teeth. [22:30]
asciilifeform or the hapsburgs, etc. [22:30]
asciilifeform lulzy how this is the exact inverse of the lisp machine thread ! [22:31]
asciilifeform holy shit. [22:31]
mircea_popescu :) [22:31]
mircea_popescu the face of alf when he becomes privy to the evil matroshka mp, whereby he only argues things one way for the ease of arguing other things later. [22:31]
asciilifeform quite. [22:32]
asciilifeform >>> << moar lulz [22:33]
assbot ... ( ) [22:33]
assbot ... ( ) [22:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> 2) what if he wants, e.g., a mod6+ben_vulpes tree. << in general it's to be expected you'd see a lot of replication of code. [22:37]
mircea_popescu much like dna works, actually. [22:37]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu doesn't seem to give the least damn about sweat, so long as it is not off his own back. 'who cares how many zeks it takes to build belomor canal' ? [22:40]
mircea_popescu trust that it is the right approach. [22:40]
asciilifeform whereas he ought to understand that he is squandering a ~finite~ resource. [22:40]
mircea_popescu if you wish to care about sweat you'll end up with the maggots on the meat. [22:40]
asciilifeform we have ddt for this. [22:40]
mircea_popescu similarly moscow university teacher does not care about candle burn. [22:40]
mircea_popescu "who cares how many nights student has to stay up until x clicks in his head" [22:40]
asciilifeform this is different. [22:41]
mircea_popescu if it is you'll have to show it. [22:41]
asciilifeform this is making the student peel potatoes 18 hr. a day. [22:41]
asciilifeform the work that goes into 'regrinding' is idiot waste. [22:41]
mircea_popescu but in any case, what i expect in practice is - a lot of cross signing, of people who know each other ; and a ready spot for corporate investment. "make me a mod6+alf patch" is a job. [22:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> the work that goes into 'regrinding' is idiot waste. << it is NOT waste. not anymore than the work that goes into brushing teeth is idiot waste. [22:41]
mircea_popescu "why should i talk to the woman ebfore fucking her!!11" [22:42]
mircea_popescu reading the fucking code is not time wasted, keeping you from time you could have "better" spend writing more code. [22:42]
asciilifeform one of these things is not like the other. [22:42]
mircea_popescu ACTUAL thousand eyes, mandated, by design. [22:42]
BingoBoingo Where the good lord split, not even Blockstream has internal consensus on HKGOXMTG [22:43]
assbot maaku7 comments on We have CONSENSUS! In April we get SW, 3 months later, core HF code ready ... ( ) [22:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: say we do things precisely as you described. and tomorrow i publish a patch. now everyone who wants to test it, cannot apply it at all unless he is willing to use my tree wholesale. instead he has to MANUALLY merge it in, line by line. and then i end up back-and-forth-ing over his typos for the next month, instead of doing ANYTHING else [22:45]
mircea_popescu READ IT [22:45]
mircea_popescu he has to READ IT [22:45]
mircea_popescu it is not YOUR fucking patch. [22:45]
asciilifeform and then write it. [22:45]
mircea_popescu the very concept of "my" patch has to go. [22:45]
mircea_popescu anf if "doing ANYTHING else" stands for "write more code", best outcome possible. [22:46]
asciilifeform i am reminded of the german fella who proclaimed 'the tank will be 200 tonnes and fuck you' [22:46]
mircea_popescu but the notion that code can be owned is so idiotic as not to be able to stand. it's fucking code! [22:47]
asciilifeform built 'maus', which not one bridge in europe could hold. [22:47]
mircea_popescu which was not terribly relevant : it could ford in places nobody knew there was a ford before. [22:47]
asciilifeform well sure. but did not get far. [22:47]
mircea_popescu mostly because russian mud. [22:48]
asciilifeform did it even make it that far east ? [22:48]
mircea_popescu iirc the soviets captured the prototype facility [22:48]
mircea_popescu iirc was also a locomotive type engine lol [22:49]
asciilifeform anyone recall 'landkreuzer' ? [22:49]
asciilifeform would have been, a what, 1500 tonne ! [22:50]
mircea_popescu was thgat the tank-submarine ? [22:55]
mircea_popescu the thing with emplaced coastal artillery battery ? [22:55]
asciilifeform the one with the naval cannon [22:55]
mircea_popescu aha [22:55]
asciilifeform my point was that mircea_popescu is asking 'the tank must be 1,000 tonnes! because fuckyou' but from where comes the engine ? [22:57]
asciilifeform the fuel ? [22:57]
mircea_popescu are you proposing that "software must progress" ? [22:57]
asciilifeform not exactly [22:57]
mircea_popescu but ? [22:57]
asciilifeform well, take, for instance, 'shiva' [22:57]
asciilifeform does mircea_popescu want it to be finished, and replace the idiot rpc ? [22:57]
mircea_popescu i see no problem with SOME software must progress. it does not follow that all must, or all should. bitcoin provably shouldn't. [22:57]
asciilifeform or waste of time ? [22:57]
mircea_popescu i do want it to be finished. [22:58]
asciilifeform in bitcoin 'progress' just means something very different. [22:58]
mircea_popescu if it's finished before i die or after, i don't care. so long as it's finished right [22:58]
mircea_popescu and ONLY then. [22:58]
asciilifeform it means to cut out the scar tissue and replace with prosthesis. [22:58]
mircea_popescu i do not want it finished otherwise, at all. [22:58]
asciilifeform i don't see the manual monk-copying as being automagically a thing of correctness-making. [22:59]
mircea_popescu and in other interludes, [22:59]
assbot ... ( ) [22:59]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you don't, do you ? [22:59]
asciilifeform (or, conversely, its absence, a ticket to prb damnation) [22:59]
mircea_popescu how do you suppose webstack became a thing ? [22:59]
mircea_popescu if not "relief from the antiquated chains of monk copying" [23:00]
asciilifeform from inferior people. [23:00]
BingoBoingo ;;google object 279 [23:00]
gribble Object 279 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Object 279 - YouTube: ; Object 279 Soviet Havy Tank [HD]-2014 - YouTube: [23:00]
asciilifeform who, yes, had an easier time getting and staying in. [23:00]
mircea_popescu your trust in people is misplaced. [23:00]
mircea_popescu look no further than yourself : are you a bad person for living in dc ? [23:01]
asciilifeform machine is not a pill against retardation. [23:01]
asciilifeform and yes, i am. [23:01]
mircea_popescu people will do what they see around them. [23:01]
mircea_popescu i don't actually believe so. [23:01]
asciilifeform i burn in this hell because too weak to escape it, and ergo it is the correct place. [23:01]
asciilifeform it is made up of all such who are. [23:01]
asciilifeform and nobody else. [23:02]
mircea_popescu machine is not a pill against retardation. nevertheless, system is a method for limiting expression of retardation. [23:02]
mircea_popescu which is why the same proteins make dog and dog vomit. [23:02]
asciilifeform overall i agree with this, and personally i have introduced many tortures, as the folks reading have felt on own skins. [23:02]
mircea_popescu there isn't "better" carbon to make man or beast. [23:02]
asciilifeform but machine can also be fooled, in the long run, by 'exam takers.' [23:02]
shinohai ;;later tell mod6 Done: f400ba5417274972a8a0da799d916983987156f949955d2bb9c6a4f146be2b31 bitcoind [23:02]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:02]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is why the v is so important. does away with any exam. [23:03]
asciilifeform the manual merging thing is quite exam. [23:03]
mircea_popescu do tell ? [23:03]
asciilifeform it is gruntwork and the ability to do it does not correlate with anything higher. [23:04]
asciilifeform peeling potatoes. [23:04]
mircea_popescu this is a fantasm. that you'd like it be true, i believe you. that it is, i do not believe you. [23:04]
asciilifeform likewise, it is very easy to 'cheat' by applying fuzzy-diff. [23:04]
mircea_popescu what you get when you take toil out of painting is warhol. he is not an artist [23:04]
asciilifeform and then recrunching the hashes. [23:04]
mircea_popescu he is an american. [23:04]
mircea_popescu what you get when you take toil out of psychologi is lacan. he is not a psychiatrist, [23:05]
mircea_popescu he is an american. [23:05]
asciilifeform no, it is what you get when you take out the talent, and leave ~only~ the toil. [23:05]
mircea_popescu plox - the world has had enough americans. forever. [23:05]
asciilifeform the talentless wretch who is very good at sweat, and paints, paints - this is warhol. [23:05]
mircea_popescu i dun think you're familiar with the fellow ? [23:05]
mircea_popescu quite opposite of historical item. [23:05]
asciilifeform lightly familiar [23:05]
asciilifeform to the extent my stomach permitted. [23:05]
mircea_popescu your stomach misled you, methinks. [23:06]
asciilifeform but perhaps i was thinking of pollack [23:06]
mircea_popescu a different fellow. [23:06]
mircea_popescu no, warhol is a talentless dali. just as lazy. [23:06]
asciilifeform ick [23:06]
mircea_popescu to this day the only way to become a carpenter is to carpent. the only way to become a whoremonger is to fuck. [23:07]
mircea_popescu you can't be a clinician without treating people, which yes, peeliong potatoes. [23:07]
mircea_popescu the deep secret here being that the potatoes are objectionable FOR BEING POTATOES, whereas their absence is objectionable universally. [23:07]
mircea_popescu or, as tlp very well put it, " [23:07]
mircea_popescu hmmm where's that article about boring family life, and hating the boring structure but nevertheless benefitting from it [23:08]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu's soliders painted quite a lot of grass fields green, and snowmen - white, didn't they. [23:08]
asciilifeform back in the day. [23:09]
asciilifeform *soldiers [23:09]
asciilifeform structure!1111 [23:09]
mircea_popescu But why do we need "the balance?" What does it replace, what went missing? The very thing Holden Caufield hated: "phoniness", protocol and ritual for seemingly no purpose. Politeness is fine, but why do I have to make small talk? Why do I have to pretend to care about the weather? Why, after a decade of marriage, should dinner be a regular review of the somewhat boring goings-ons of "the day"? Because that formal [23:09]
mircea_popescu ity is freeing, it allows self-conscious physical bodies to get used to standing next to each other without having to be acting, this includes husbands and wives. When dinner is a controlled process with "manners" and expected topics of shared conversation and start and end times, as boring as it may get, it is boring, not you. Women are especially sensitive to this absence of convention, this is one reason for the p [23:09]
mircea_popescu opularity of Downton Abbey, not to mention alcohol and iphones at dinner. It is against this background of "phony" convention that teens can productively "rebel" and find their own individuality against a status quo; fighting against an emotionally illogical, arbitrary, unpredictable structure results in learning the opposite lesson, "whatever gets me through the day..." Without this structure to social activities, w [23:09]
mircea_popescu hen the "natural" conversation stops being interesting-- and it will, even if most of you weren't bad at it-- it would be a judgment about your relationship, about you. And you'll beg St. Jobs to blink a path to safety because otherwise you have to sit there with no existential support. [23:09]
mircea_popescu Texting and social media's slowness gives them their power for this purpose. You read a text, and it lingers, it keeps your attention because it's all there is; and then you respond with a piece of your real self, and wait for a response... what's happening is time travel-- while you are on pause, the rest of not-your life goes faster. It is far more efficient at killing time than a phone call. [23:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so they did. and women beaten for cutting cabbage wrongly. and on it goes. [23:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0005686 = 3.4116 BTC [+] [23:09]
asciilifeform the cabbage makes sense though ! [23:09]
asciilifeform correctly cut cabbage is USEFUL [23:10]
mircea_popescu everything makes sense, my dear alf, as long as the cane doesn't cut into one's own buttocks. [23:10]
asciilifeform even then it makes sense. [23:10]
asciilifeform if the cane is because forgot to put the firing pin in the kalash on reassembly [23:10]
mircea_popescu well now that we understand the positions in theory, a negotiation for functional practice may begin. [23:10]
asciilifeform and not because missed a spot of green pain when painting motherfucking grass. [23:10]
asciilifeform *paint [23:10]
* asciilifeform ~knows~ that the pin does not normally come out! does not need correction on subj [23:12]
asciilifeform rhetorical example. imagine we were american grunts. their pin - comes out. [23:12]
mircea_popescu aha ? [23:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45100 @ 0.00056939 = 25.6795 BTC [+] [23:16]
mircea_popescu (and for the record i will point out that tlp is anglotard enough to miss most of the substance. there's perfecty good reason everyone painted the same god damned vase with two apples next to it, and this has little do to with "you're not boring son ok" and a lot of fucking things to do with ... damn, where's that thread about ther ancient battlefield ? [23:18]
mircea_popescu the one where new people see the same ravines and tend to build the same bridge long dead people saw and built ? [23:18]
mircea_popescu there's a depth acquired from "boring" narrowness of subject. [23:19]
asciilifeform i don't recall this [23:19]
asciilifeform (but would like to!) [23:19]
asciilifeform was it the intellectual-curiosity thread..? [23:19]
mircea_popescu yeah, you even commented on it at some point [23:19]
asciilifeform the one with the planar groups [23:19]
mircea_popescu damn we're not even a decade in can't find shit in the logs ;/ [23:20]
asciilifeform l0lz [23:20]
mircea_popescu meanwhile in further "ceos agree to consensus" news, [23:20]
assbot ... ( ) [23:20]
asciilifeform interesting! [23:21]
asciilifeform only one looks visibly displeased [23:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42470 @ 0.0005686 = 24.1484 BTC [-] [23:21]
asciilifeform the one on the left hand side : 'snore, noose' [23:21]
asciilifeform the one on right hand: 'is this ALL THE NOOSE you could SPARE!?!!' [23:22]
mircea_popescu lol [23:23]
mircea_popescu and the one in the middle is all like "Shit, i really got the worst boobjob in the world" [23:23]
asciilifeform aha! [23:24]
mircea_popescu well i can't fucking find it. [23:25]
phf went to have dinner, come back, mother of logs [23:25]
jurov the v theory is fine, but in practice i'm afrain it will drive everyone attempting it insane [23:25]
jurov like mod6 [23:25]
mircea_popescu insanity would be an improvement for you people. [23:25]
jurov improvement toward what? [23:27]
mircea_popescu i rest my case. [23:27]
asciilifeform related >> [23:28]
assbot Logged on 07-11-2015 02:32:19; asciilifeform: << interesting sport - fake hanging [23:28]
mod6 i don't think V is driving me insane. at least, I hope not. i think re-grinding is a pain, but i don't see a way around this. [23:31]
mod6 shinohai: cool! thanks! [23:31]
mircea_popescu i will be off to do things with slutty girls now, bbl. [23:32]
mod6 enjoy! [23:32]
shinohai >.> [23:32]
danielpbarron << me too. and i get a weird error when trying to get his key >> [23:33]
hanbot mod6 ftr i'm not at all set up for proper testing atm, much as i wish i could offer something. will heads up when i'm able. [23:33]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2016 20:41:35; ben_vulpes: mod6: i am *still* getting this with gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file 'buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified! [23:33]
assbot ... ( ) [23:33]
mod6 hanbot: no worries,. thanks! [23:34]
phf i split patches into patchsets, (and for historical) to minimize confusion. there's a little menu that lets you select [23:34]
assbot 404 Not Found ... ( ) [23:34]
assbot trb ... ( ) [23:34]
assbot trb ... ( ) [23:34]
mod6 danielpbarron: did you put this key 0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319 in your gpg keyring? [23:35]
mod6 along with the other 3? [23:35]
danielpbarron when i try to get it, it gives the error linked above [23:35]
asciilifeform phf: why is shiva 'deprecated' ? [23:36]
mod6 how are you trying to 'get it' ? [23:36]
asciilifeform oh nm [23:36]
mod6 oh [23:36]
mod6 didnt see the paste /me looks [23:36]
asciilifeform phf: very spiffy [23:36]
danielpbarron i get the same error when i do the same thing with the long key id you just showed [23:36]
phf asciilifeform: should be better called "disabled", but really makes no difference [23:36]
phf also release ought to be stable [23:37]
danielpbarron regardless, the script ended with a bitcoind in rotor/TEST2/bitcoin/src/ [23:37]
mod6 danielpbarron: try `gpg --recv-key0xAB07D806D2CE741FB886EE50B025BA8B59C36319` [23:37]
mod6 ok, well it should pull that key. [23:37]
mod6 that command should ^^^ [23:37]
mod6 goddamn lag [23:38]
danielpbarron yeah same error [23:38]
mod6 i dunno then. [23:38]
phf so without the two broken patches experimental almost presses cleanly. something wrong with polar's patches.. [23:38]
mod6 gab the key from the fhe keyserver andimport manually? [23:38]
* asciilifeform bbl [23:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00056654 = 8.6397 BTC [-] [23:39]
mod6 and ALL: do not run this script 2x, ever. if something goes wrong, just please, start again fresh dir blow everything away except your .wot dir & contents and script. [23:39]
danielpbarron well i got a bitcoind out of it, and when i run it against my already mostly complete .bitcoin directory i got black holed; trying again now with -connect= [23:39]
phf i'm going to try and keep main patches view the same as what mod6 is releasing [23:39]
mod6 blackholed? [23:39]
mod6 o.O [23:39]
danielpbarron can't get a new block, just bastards and transactions that appear to be invalid [23:40]
danielpbarron but that's not necessarily the fault of your thing; i had a power outage take this machine down without properly shutting down [23:40]
* yangwao ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:41]
mod6 ah. ok [23:41]
mod6 well,let us know how it goes. thanks for building. [23:42]
danielpbarron gonna try a few more times to get it to continue building on the blocks i already had, and failing that I'll try it with an empty .bitcoin directory [23:43]
mod6 alright, cool [23:44]
danielpbarron oh also, in getinfo I get this >> "errors" : "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade." [23:47]
mod6 o.O [23:48]
mod6 something is wrong. i dont know what. [23:49]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [23:51]
Category: Logs
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