Forum logs for 19 Dec 2013

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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pankkake and shutting down their whole IT department [00:01]
pankkake forum topic "Building my own Altcoin on windows,merkel and genesis hash" :| hmm maybe that was my Coinion idea, Deutschcoin based on Merkel hashes [00:01]
the20year2 Is there a way to generate an altcoin that can pay out in other coins? I keep kicking around this idea of a coin backed by physical goods/items, but don't know a way to do it without inflating it , or paying out to holders [00:02]
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pankkake if you want to back with something, you'd need a centralized issuer, and trust that issuer [00:04]
the20year2 Yeah [00:04]
pankkake that's what colored coins, ripple, etc. can provide. see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149533.0 as an experiment [00:05]
the20year2 how is ripple doing it? [00:05]
pankkake you have to add a trust line to an issuer, and then you can use its currency [00:05]
the20year2 and it can be traded in ripples? [00:06]
pankkake beware that if you add trust line for the same currency (i.e. btc) it can decide to exchange it between issuers without telling you [00:06]
pankkake no, ripples never enter the picture [00:06]
the20year2 Interesting [00:06]
pankkake except maybe as fees [00:06]
the20year2 I'm asking this specifically in terms of doing this with backing up coins as a specific set interest in income producing real estate here in the US , then trying to figure a viable way to pay back coin holders interest [00:06]
pankkake it looks like you're just reinventing shares ;) [00:07]
the20year2 Correct, on something outside of an exchange [00:07]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 145 @ 0.001 = 0.145 BTC [00:09]
mike_c dexX7 just posted to a link to a paper describing what you want [00:10]
mike_c and here's mp's opinion on it: http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-nixed-p2p-colored-coins-and-all-that-jazz/ [00:12]
the20year2 MP? [00:13]
mike_c mircea popescu, founder of mpex [00:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19050 @ 0.00090316 = 17.2052 BTC [-] {4} [00:14]
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the20year2 I didn't realize he was the foudner of mpex. Is he the one that deals with issuing? [00:14]
mike_c http://trilema.com/2012/how-does-one-list-on-mpex/ [00:15]
ozbot How does one list on MPEx ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [00:15]
pankkake https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=271711.0 MP aka Your God [00:15]
ozbot Why MP is your God. [00:15]
the20year2 wot? [00:16]
the20year2 GUess they only want BTC involved/denominated then [00:16]
the20year2 :( [00:16]
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mike_c you run rentalstarter, right? you could probably list on havelock. [00:21]
the20year2 Yeah, i'm looking at any exchange realy, but i'm worried about legalities and trying to avoid future problems [00:22]
the20year2 We're doing pretty good overall IMO business wise, but I need access to more capital, sadly. [00:22]
mike_c tough to avoid legal issues when raising capital [00:22]
the20year2 Eh , it just needs to be done right, and our lawyer isn't too favorable for havelock [00:22]
mike_c any crowdfunded/btc-funded raise is going to be legally challenging in the US [00:23]
the20year2 Yes and no, from his standpoint we can do it, as long as we attempt to set in place a measure to limit/keep US citizens from investing [00:24]
mike_c good luck getting BTC investors to send in proof of residence :) [00:24]
dexX7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bxaGMddBNg "if the us misbehaves, this is what is gonna happen!1" lol [00:25]
ozbot Devyani Khobragade's arrest: police lift barricades outside US embassy in Delhi - YouTube [00:25]
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the20year2 Of course, so then there's some other methods that he felt would be SEC compliant with what we're doing, and he felt (From what he knows) that ciphertrade might be a better candidate than havelock [00:25]
mike_c ciphertrade.. that exchange that hasn't launched yet. i have this bad feeling about where you're headed. [00:26]
the20year2 Well, everything we're doing is reviewed by our legal council [00:26]
mike_c who suggested ciphertrade. [00:26]
the20year2 My brother, who gave info to my attourney [00:26]
mike_c you are investing in real estate. forget about btc. go find USD investors. [00:27]
the20year2 I will once I feel that we're sizable enough to warrant a PPM [00:27]
the20year2 which is the threshold, since a PPM will require us to spend say $8k or so [00:28]
mike_c if that is the direction you are headed, you are not going to want the monkey on your back of a thousand tiny btc investors. [00:29]
the20year2 US BTC investors :) International investors are fine, and we can microfund that way [00:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 712 @ 0.00281112 = 2.0015 BTC [-] {4} [00:29]
mike_c ok. good luck. i think you're playing with fire, but hopefully you make it. [00:30]
the20year2 We have decent legal council on retainer, our understanding seems to be good. Thankfully the SEC does have a grace period for US investors if we have any, and this last bitfunder purge brought it to our attention. [00:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00090828 = 7.7658 BTC [+] {2} [00:31]
the20year2 At some point, hopefully in the next 2-3 months we'll be able to access traditional lending methods and this won't be an issue [00:32]
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mikaeldice You're in real estate, the20year2 ? What makes the volatility of bitcoin a good choice for investment funds? Last resort? [00:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00090871 = 14.4485 BTC [+] {3} [00:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02199999 = 0.132 BTC [-] {2} [00:43]
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mikaeldice It seems like you'd be taking on a lot of currency risk by sinking investors' BTC into fiat and then real estate [00:47]
mike_c on a different topic, what happened to your hack challenge mikael? still going to do it? [00:48]
mikaeldice I need some time to set it up. I don't want people calling it a scam, so I might just put up the server and make it a free for all [00:49]
mike_c you mean no bounty? [00:49]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell asciilifeform The Cardano is going to be soundproof, right? http://it.slashdot.org/story/13/12/18/2122226/scientists-extract-rsa-key-from-gnupg-using-sound-of-cpu [00:50]
gribble The operation succeeded. [00:50]
mikaeldice A tiny bounty, but no entry fees. I don't want to take people's money, even if it'd make the challenge more interesting. At the same time, with little to gain, I would make the bounty much smaller [00:50]
mike_c the gain is proof of your system, right? unless you are expecting to get hacked and the gain is for you to learn about holes. [00:52]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: this attack is simply a variant of the traditional 'Differential Power Analysis' [00:53]
mikaeldice Dual purpose: If nobody hacks it, this adds evidence of 'sufficiency' with the security, and if someone does hack it then I can patch the holes and reinit the prize until no more holes are found [00:53]
BingoBoingo Ah [00:53]
asciilifeform the sound is coming from the power supply inductor [00:53]
asciilifeform this is really from the fact that a pc cpu is a monster hog [00:53]
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asciilifeform and typically exists in one of two states - 'halt', with reduced power draw, and 'run' (interrupt throws cpu out of halt state.) [00:54]
asciilifeform idle loop in modern os scheduler sits the cpu in 'halt' [00:54]
asciilifeform virtually any device containing a switched power supply 'hisses' this way [00:56]
asciilifeform there are no inductors (switching power supply or otherwise) in cardano... [00:56]
asciilifeform nor is the 'low power state' feature of the microcontroller made use of; nor is there an operating system, in the usual sense, or a scheduler... [00:57]
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the20year2 mikaeldice: for us it was just a way to crowdsource funding on something that traditional investors wouldn't bite into [00:58]
the20year2 The hope/assumption in the beginning was that we would be able to outpace the appreciation of bitcoin through the way we are handling real estate. Growth has been fantastic, but it hasn't outpaced bitcoin like we'd hoped. So, then the hope later on, and it hasn't come to fruitition was a reverse hedge against BTC.USD drops like what we've been seeing. I tried to get investments again when BTC hit $1200 and few I talked [00:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10724 @ 0.00090502 = 9.7054 BTC [-] [00:59]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.27 BTC [+] [01:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.0009093 = 41.2822 BTC [+] {5} [01:03]
zz_ asiclifeform: isn't the CPU running at a few Ghz, while sound <20Khz? What exactly would the cellphone pick up? [01:04]
mike_c that is actually the crux of the paper. [01:05]
asciilifeform zz_: it's picking up 'idle' vs 'halted' [01:05]
asciilifeform from which one can deduce execution path. [01:05]
asciilifeform this is a variation on the old theme of cache probe attack [01:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00090502 = 8.0999 BTC [-] [01:06]
asciilifeform (as noted in the paper) [01:06]
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zz_ didn't read the PDF. Guess that would help. [01:07]
mike_c tldr: "In a nutshell, the key extraction attack relies on crafting chosen ciphertexts that cause numerical [01:07]
mike_c cancellations deep inside GnuPG’s modular exponentiation algorithm. This causes the special value [01:07]
mike_c zero to appear frequently in the innermost loop of the algorithm, where it afects control fow. A single [01:07]
mike_c iteration of that loop is much too fast for direct acoustic observation, but the efect is repeated and [01:07]
mike_c amplifed over many thousands of iterations, resulting in a gross leakage effect that is discernible in the [01:07]
mike_c acoustic spectrum over hundreds of milliseconds" [01:07]
mike_c that pasted poorly [01:07]
asciilifeform the bit about leaking electrolytic caps 'buzzing' is unsurprising. [01:08]
mike_c so the good news, as far as i can tell, is that you have to be decrypting a known, specially crafted message. [01:09]
asciilifeform 'More generally, we observed strong positive correlation between machine [01:09]
asciilifeform age, in terms of calendar time and usage, and the cryptanalytic usefulness of their acoustic emanations.' [01:09]
asciilifeform that statement, even if true - i can almost see the censor's red ink slipping that in. [01:10]
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dub applied to snarfing bitcoin keys in 3-2- [01:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00090945 = 9.7766 BTC [+] [01:15]
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BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I imagine few consumer things being as loud as a Netburst era Pentium 4, for most definitions of loud. [01:25]
asciilifeform anything which oscillates rapidly between 'draws plenty of power' and 'draws little' is: a transmitter. [01:25]
asciilifeform audio, rf, optical (ir!), etc. [01:26]
asciilifeform this is no revelation of any kind. [01:26]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 400 @ 0.001 = 0.4 BTC [01:35]
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samy_ hello [01:40]
kakobrekla hi [01:40]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 5000 @ 0.00045 = 2.25 BTC [-] [01:40]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.04888 = 0.1955 BTC [-] [01:42]
dub yes hello [01:46]
dub mircea_popescu: finally a case for colored coins https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg4029004#msg4029004 [01:59]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 32 @ 0.10294155 = 3.2941 BTC [-] {5} [02:00]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 13 @ 0.08 = 1.04 BTC [-] [02:01]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 40 @ 0.01866781 = 0.7467 BTC [-] {10} [02:03]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1900 @ 0.00045 = 0.855 BTC [-] [02:03]
ll ooh vtx dump time [02:03]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 23 @ 0.1 = 2.3 BTC [+] [02:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 27 @ 0.09998516 = 2.6996 BTC [-] {4} [02:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 21 @ 0.1 = 2.1 BTC [+] [02:11]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.093 = 0.279 BTC [-] [02:17]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 602 @ 0.00045 = 0.2709 BTC [-] {3} [02:17]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.093 = 0.372 BTC [-] {2} [02:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 377 @ 0.000435 = 0.164 BTC [-] [02:20]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1490 @ 0.00043501 = 0.6482 BTC [+] [02:21]
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KRS|Gotyawallet colored coins is racist [02:25]
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dub naggercoin [02:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 6 @ 0.1 = 0.6 BTC [+] {2} [02:29]
KRS|Gotyawallet used for purchasing fried chicken and watermelon at a discount [02:30]
topace mmmmmmm fried chicken [02:30]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.1 = 0.5 BTC [+] [02:31]
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KRS|Gotyawallet wow there's a name from the past [02:36]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.1 = 0.2 BTC [+] [02:38]
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nubbins` http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?nick=nubbins%60 [02:43]
ozbot #bitcoin-otc order book [02:43]
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nubbins` i'm fishing :D [02:43]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 25 @ 0.05892203 = 1.4731 BTC [-] {15} [02:58]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.0915 = 0.183 BTC [-] [03:00]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.09 = 0.18 BTC [-] {2} [03:01]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.07966666 = 0.239 BTC [-] {2} [03:02]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.07805 = 0.1561 BTC [-] {2} [03:03]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 26 @ 0.02099999 = 0.546 BTC [-] {2} [03:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00090851 = 13.6731 BTC [-] [03:14]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 54 @ 0.07703055 = 4.1596 BTC [-] {3} [03:23]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 31 @ 0.05959354 = 1.8474 BTC [-] {5} [03:24]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.022189 = 0.2219 BTC [+] {3} [03:35]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 470 @ 0.00047491 = 0.2232 BTC [+] {6} [03:43]
benkay ;;ticker --market btcavg [03:48]
gribble BitcoinAverage BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 510.04, Best ask: 511.53, Bid-ask spread: 1.49000, Last trade: 510.13, 24 hour volume: 412704.96, 24 hour low: None, 24 hour high: None, 24 hour vwap: 557.2 [03:48]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1010 @ 0.001 = 1.01 BTC [03:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 8 @ 0.0999874 = 0.7999 BTC [+] {3} [03:54]
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* BingoBoingo wonders if BTCChina will cease having fiat issues one Pary members have bought their coins... [03:55]
skylax can anyone hear me? [03:56]
bloctoc they will cease having fiat issues when people cease using fiat [03:56]
BingoBoingo bloctoc: On some level people will always continue using some fiat in some role. You have to buy toothpaste sometime. [03:57]
skylax the goverenment will always have the power to shut down crypto, they just won't do it yet [03:58]
bloctoc you don't anymore have to use fiat to buy toothpaste. [03:58]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.09999989 = 0.3 BTC [+] [03:58]
bloctoc whole foods on gyft for example [03:59]
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bloctoc skylax - how on earth would the government shut down crypto? [04:02]
benkay BingoBoingo: it doesn't look like they use localbitcoins. i wonder if that's even an option for them. [04:03]
BingoBoingo bloctoc: Why would I want to consider parting with something valuable like BTC for a consumable like toothpast though. [04:04]
BingoBoingo Fiat will alway have that niche of stuff too boring to trade BTC for [04:04]
BingoBoingo benkay: Who knows [04:04]
skylax @bloctoc they could easily block the protocol channels of any bitcoin related subjects. RIght now there is a bit of battle going on between bitcoin and legal institutions, if bitcoin wins, meaning it can bypass the law, then I'm pretty sure a lot of other things in society will probably be used to bypass the law in the same manner. [04:07]
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BingoBoingo skylax: I think you are mistaken. Bitcoin is now the law and BitBet the court. [04:10]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 136 @ 0.00243997 = 0.3318 BTC [-] {10} [04:11]
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benkay don't go overboard with the sycophancy now BingoBoingo [04:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.09999988 = 0.3 BTC [-] {2} [04:12]
benkay *elbow elbow* [04:12]
bloctoc skylax you mean like China blocks CNN? There's no battle right now, at most there's fincen bragging that they found a way to fit bitcoin into their own status quo. I really suspect bureaucrats everywhere don't give a shit except that reporters only want to talk about bitcoin. [04:12]
BingoBoingo benkay: Sycophants aren't a bad thing, either to have or to be. I will admit though that mircea_popescu has made some poor decisions like Market Making X.idiff. [04:13]
benkay that has to have been a painful exercise. [04:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.0487 = 0.6818 BTC [-] [04:14]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.07400001 = 0.148 BTC [-] {2} [04:17]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.09999988 = 1 BTC [+] {3} [04:20]
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skylax_ @bloctoc the beaucrats will eventually give a shit if bitcoin becomes too mainstream and manages to manipulate other currencies [04:25]
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skylax @bloctoc the beaucrats will eventually give a shit if bitcoin becomes too mainstream and manages to manipulate other currencies [04:26]
skylax @bloctoc what do you think the future of bitcoin will look like? [04:26]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 198 @ 0.001 = 0.198 BTC [04:27]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 29 @ 0.09499992 = 2.755 BTC [+] {9} [04:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00090667 = 5.984 BTC [-] [04:28]
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bloctoc skylax - A bunch of regulatory functions will be better served by crypto. Monetary policy is the most obvious, but there will be other "industries" that will be made redundant. There will be no more credit checks unless you actually want a loan. SEC no longer needed except for enforcement. Title insurance gone. Toothpaste still around. [04:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6476 @ 0.00090532 = 5.8629 BTC [-] {2} [04:38]
bloctoc I'm pretty excited about the functionality suggested by mastercoin, ripple, and colored coins. I get that all those are not solid technically yet, but the direction is clearly laid out for those who care to believe. [04:38]
bloctoc oh, and cherry trucks on the cover of Rolling Stone. [04:39]
KRS|Gotyawallet cherry truck bonus ftw [04:42]
KRS|Gotyawallet bloctoc a lot of bitcoiners are not happy with mastercoin for instance because they're saying its centralized and a large portion of the wealth is privately owned [04:43]
monolithik mastercoin is a joke. ripple is technologically interesting but will probably be a failure due to high complexity and relative need for centralized trusted parties [04:43]
KRS|Gotyawallet ^^^^^^^^^^^ [04:44]
monolithik colored coins have potential but none of the implementations are of sufficient quality yet [04:44]
BingoBoingo Look, if you want to ipo without any gatekeepers isn't cryptostocks questionable enough for you? [04:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10640 @ 0.00090425 = 9.6212 BTC [-] [04:46]
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bloctoc If I knew MP personally, then sure. but MP might be the FBI for all I know. [04:47]
KRS|Gotyawallet nah he'd be more like the KGB [04:48]
bloctoc … unless "cryptostocks" is more than some generic term. In which case I never heard of it. [04:48]
KRS|Gotyawallet or the Somalian Mob [04:48]
BingoBoingo bloctoc: Cryptostocks is the Vircurex spinoff Vircurex IPO'd itself on [04:48]
bloctoc got it. [04:48]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.27001 BTC [+] [04:53]
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skylax bloctoc: I suppose the efficiency of crypto will erase many of worthless industries, but crowdsource law is pretty complex and unreliable so some kind of institution will still be present, if somehow someone made crowdsourced law work, then this method would be used in all legal fields such as commercial law and criminal law etc. Also to mention crypto if heavily technology dependent, if the power goes out, we go back to cave [05:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2550 @ 0.00090425 = 2.3058 BTC [-] [05:23]
bloctoc …if the power goes out, we go back to cave - yes crypto or no crypto that's true. Same argument for breaking SHA256. As far as crowdsource law it will be nice to see some template corporations that get set up by copy/paste instead of paying a lawyer $10K to copy/paste. For what it's worth, I do think the smart contracts will do that for us. [05:28]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37584 @ 0.00090762 = 34.112 BTC [+] {2} [05:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29666 @ 0.00090985 = 26.9916 BTC [+] {6} [05:32]
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skylax bloctoc: what do you mean template corporations? [05:41]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.001 = 0.3 BTC [05:56]
Bugpowder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNi1o74DaIk [05:58]
ozbot x-dream - the 5th dimension (live in paris) - YouTube [05:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00091079 = 13.7529 BTC [+] {3} [06:13]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 98 @ 0.00273497 = 0.268 BTC [+] {4} [06:21]
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mircea_popescu the20year2 yeah, i handle ipos. [06:29]
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jborkl Hi mircea [06:36]
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mircea_popescu hey jborkl [06:38]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform bloodcurdingly obnoxious shit. "everyone respect the laws" ? bs. [06:39]
mircea_popescu dub beware that yellow snow! [06:39]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell dexx7 guy was actually emailing me about the thing. i sent him a list of no's and the way we left it was he's gonna lurk here for a while figure shit out. [06:41]
gribble The operation succeeded. [06:41]
Bugpowder http://www.prweb.com/releases/galtsgulchchile/20131112/prweb11324365.htm [06:42]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i never marketmade x.idiff ?! what are you talkin' about ? [06:44]
nubbins` galt's gulch chile [06:44]
nubbins` i bet it's full of insufferable assholes [06:44]
Bugpowder I sold $20k to a nice family of four in Santa Monica [06:44]
Bugpowder @ $1200/coin [06:44]
Bugpowder I think it was their life savings :( [06:45]
Bugpowder They just wanted to move to Chile... [06:45]
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nubbins` wow [06:45]
mircea_popescu nubbins` they were trying to sell me on the thing. i tell you i don't see it, why would you want to go hang out there ? [06:45]
nubbins` that's what, like 17 btc [06:46]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder is a family of four mean a guy and three women ? [06:46]
truffles lol [06:46]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Ah, I must have confused futures and options [06:46]
Bugpowder Geeky father, overbearing fat mother, two incredibly cute blond girls [06:46]
nubbins` mircea_popescu: i remember a while back this guy on the forums had a huge thesis-length post about "bitcoin land", a place where bitcoin would be used everywhere [06:46]
mircea_popescu sounds dreamy. [06:46]
Bugpowder they need bitcoin to go to $2500 to afford their land [06:46]
nubbins` he waited 8 or 9 paragraphs before bringing up the drug therapies [06:46]
Bugpowder warned them not to manic sell if it were to drop... I hope the held on... [06:47]
mircea_popescu nubbins` gotta give junkies credit when they manage to hold off for a thousand words before bringin; it. [06:47]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder i'll bet you they're out at ~550 [06:47]
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Bugpowder Maybe 382 [06:47]
Bugpowder out at 382! [06:47]
Bugpowder couldn't take it [06:47]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo re options, you gotta understand that ecosystems are born out of shit. [06:47]
mircea_popescu if nobody shits nothing grows. [06:47]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder it never went as low as 382 did it ?! [06:48]
nubbins` mircea_popescu: you gotta do something like that in a city, not out in the woods. e.g. freetown christiania [06:48]
Bugpowder on bitstamp! [06:48]
Bugpowder it did [06:48]
xoinfinityox you should have traded for the girls [06:48]
mircea_popescu nubbins` when i was a mobster i didn't wanna go live with all the other mobsters. generally this seems to be a common trend, too, people don't seem to go "a shit, you know what'd be cool ? let's move upstate. the city's a toilet!" [06:48]
mircea_popescu xoinfinityox "HOW MUCH FOR THE LITTLE GIRL!!!" [06:49]
Bugpowder sup xoinfinityox [06:49]
xoinfinityox sup bug [06:49]
xoinfinityox I WANT TO BUY YOUR WOMEN [06:49]
mircea_popescu http://www.youtube.com/embed/GDXYzUlv0S8 [06:49]
ozbot How much for the little girl? - YouTube [06:49]
xoinfinityox i pay only in dogecoins [06:49]
Bugpowder I have enough women in my life [06:49]
nubbins` lies [06:50]
Bugpowder another daughter on the way... [06:50]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder it'll suck to be you when you're 50 and old and frail [06:50]
mircea_popescu and their periods syncronise. [06:50]
nubbins` heh [06:50]
Bugpowder I will never be frail [06:50]
mircea_popescu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWcNcJuTHVo << Bugpowder in 10 years. [06:50]
ozbot katie kaboom - YouTube [06:50]
nubbins` one week each month, the bathroom garbage fills up much quicker than usual [06:50]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 14 @ 0.06771428 = 0.948 BTC [-] {4} [06:51]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 9 @ 0.06422222 = 0.578 BTC [-] {3} [06:52]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell mircea_popescu remind me in 10 years to neg Bugpowder if his "i will never be frail" promise turns out to be made of milk. [06:52]
gribble The operation succeeded. [06:52]
Bugpowder dude [06:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 27 @ 0.06336149 = 1.7108 BTC [-] {3} [06:53]
Bugpowder I will be frail around 80 maybe [06:53]
Bugpowder I got 45 years [06:53]
Bugpowder of strength and virility [06:54]
Bugpowder left [06:54]
mircea_popescu okok [06:54]
truffles 5* years tops [06:54]
KRS|Gotyawallet how's the libedo [06:54]
Bugpowder babies fuck that up tho [06:54]
mircea_popescu they do ?! [06:54]
Bugpowder Do you even lift? [06:54]
nubbins` ok enough of this, gonna print one more color [06:55]
Bugpowder I gotta get my T checked [06:55]
mircea_popescu lmao [06:55]
nubbins` we got a rush job earlier today, due tomorrow ;( [06:55]
Bugpowder my buddy just started getting T supplementation [06:55]
mircea_popescu perfect delivery of dyel! [06:55]
nubbins` i've got a friend who takes t [06:55]
pizzaman1337 mircea_popescu: just curious, what do you think bitcoin is worth right now? [06:55]
mircea_popescu pizzaman1337 1 btc per, exactly. [06:56]
mircea_popescu the dollar however, i don't think is worth very much. [06:56]
pizzaman1337 mircea_popescu: and how about in terms of USD? [06:56]
Bugpowder oh shit... They needed their coins to appreciate to $75,000?? [06:56]
mircea_popescu sorta like a badly managed pmb, i guess some people show green playing with fire, but overall... [06:56]
mircea_popescu it's gonna be a loss. [06:56]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.0655 = 0.655 BTC [+] [06:56]
Bugpowder Its going to take a while to get to $4,000 / btc I think. Doubt they will be able to hold on [06:56]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/ [06:57]
mircea_popescu so far 90/60 [06:57]
Bugpowder No more gambling for bugpowder [06:57]
mircea_popescu not for you, for them. plunk the whiole thing down on yes :D [06:57]
mircea_popescu http://bitbet.us/bet/519/btc-network-difficulty-to-top-1b-before-2014/#c2087 << the experts say so anyway. [06:57]
ozbot BitBet - BTC network difficulty to top 1B before 2014 [06:58]
pizzaman1337 so do you think it's currently worth more or less than $500 per coin? (seems to be hovering at around 500) [06:59]
Bugpowder lol [06:59]
Bugpowder MOAR duh [06:59]
pizzaman1337 well hey [06:59]
pizzaman1337 http://trilema.com/2013/people-bitcoin-is-not-worth-100-dollars-per-stop-buying/ [06:59]
xoinfinityox www.gamblersanonymous.org [06:59]
ozbot People Bitcoin is not worth 100+ dollars per. STOP BUYING! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [06:59]
mircea_popescu pizzaman1337 a lot changed since spring. [06:59]
pizzaman1337 he's made calls in the past [06:59]
Bugpowder That was a long time ago dude [06:59]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 8 @ 0.06328875 = 0.5063 BTC [-] {3} [06:59]
Bugpowder coinbase became like a real company and shit [07:00]
Bugpowder (not that that is a big thing) [07:00]
mircea_popescu not that, really, but anyway. seriously pizzaman1337, it's impossible to make a definitive call like that in the current circumstance. [07:00]
mircea_popescu we're not imo in dangerous territory, and that's all i care about. [07:00]
BingoBoingo Honeslty it is probably worth an amount such that you yourself would have to pay to get an honest answer [07:00]
mircea_popescu mkt can take it from here. [07:00]
pizzaman1337 ok, just curious [07:00]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 5000 @ 0.001 = 5 BTC [07:00]
mircea_popescu i did have the "ppl stop buying" post prepared, but it never got there, so... crisis averted. [07:01]
xoinfinityox god damn btc is the wild west [07:02]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 100 @ 0.06281 = 6.281 BTC [-] {2} [07:02]
mircea_popescu xoinfinityox it is. and who are you ? [07:03]
Bugpowder friend of mine [07:03]
mircea_popescu a. hai. [07:03]
xoinfinityox whats up man [07:03]
xoinfinityox i'm painfully new to all this [07:04]
* KRS|Gotyawallet looks around. [07:04]
KRS|Gotyawallet mircea_popescu: I was wondering about a follow-up on that one, much time has passed in btc time. [07:06]
mircea_popescu which ? [07:06]
KRS|Gotyawallet "stop buying bitcoin" [07:06]
mircea_popescu i thought we just covered that. [07:06]
mircea_popescu moving on, did i mention body stockings are kinda cool ? they should put this in seventeen or w/e kids read, "if you don't own a coupla good ones you're no woman" [07:07]
mircea_popescu "make sure you get the crotchless variants" [07:07]
truffles pic [07:08]
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mircea_popescu i'm not sharing [07:09]
truffles random one [07:09]
truffles from internet [07:09]
xoinfinityox lmgtfy [07:09]
mircea_popescu .b [07:09]
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BingoBoingo .bait [07:11]
ozbot http://assets.tumblr.com/images/og/text_200.png [07:11]
truffles http://www.western-supplies.com/images/legs/ballet-dancer-tights.jpg [07:11]
mircea_popescu nah. [07:12]
mircea_popescu hahaha nice one ozzy [07:12]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.06282 = 0.6282 BTC [+] {2} [07:15]
truffles http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3196/3065704658_41018aa653_o.jpg [07:15]
Duffer1 :(( [07:15]
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mircea_popescu ;;bcstats [07:30]
gribble Current Blocks: 275787 | Current Difficulty: 9.08350862437022E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 276191 | Next Difficulty In: 404 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 19 hours, 52 minutes, and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1177706524.89 | Estimated Percent Change: 29.65326 [07:30]
mircea_popescu holy shit look at that, 30% almost [07:30]
Bugpowder yeah [07:30]
Bugpowder sipa charts are off the hook [07:30]
mircea_popescu i wonder what will be the peak diff. [07:31]
mircea_popescu 10^20 ? 10^25 ? [07:31]
mircea_popescu 10^15 maybe, tho that seems improbable [07:31]
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Bugpowder 2.5PH/s gain in 2 weeks [07:31]
mircea_popescu yup [07:31]
mircea_popescu and nobody is doing this, practyically, acoupla noname shops [07:32]
Bugpowder how many total computational power of the worlds is that [07:32]
Bugpowder (excluding bitcoin miners) [07:32]
mircea_popescu what will it look like when the miner producers dominate the silicon industry on the ground, and are like 5 of the top 20 corps on mpex [07:32]
mircea_popescu which by now of course does more in a day than the fiat stock exchanges combined in a week [07:32]
mircea_popescu Bugpowder an impressive chunk, no matter how you look at it. [07:33]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/ << math is in there. [07:33]
ozbot Things that matter these days ; things that don’t matter these days. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mirce [07:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00090519 = 20.1857 BTC [-] [07:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.0009089 = 9.907 BTC [+] [07:39]
xoinfinityox @mircea - good article. this might be a dumb Q but whats the danger of controlling interest in BTC? [07:42]
mircea_popescu it may be dumb, but i don't get what it is asking ? [07:43]
xoinfinityox you talk about a 51% attack [07:44]
xoinfinityox what is that? [07:44]
mircea_popescu a 51% attack is the situation where one party controls a majority of mining. [07:45]
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xoinfinityox why is that dangerous in a BTC context? [07:45]
mircea_popescu that party can then do some nefarious choosing in the transactions that get accepted and then rolled back [07:45]
mircea_popescu resulting in untrustworthy btc conveyance for as long as their 51% position lasts [07:45]
monolithik xoinfinityox: see http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/658/what-can-an-attacker-with-51-of-hash-power-do [07:46]
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mircea_popescu can of course does not equal will, but giving that sort of an option to anyone is anathema to the bitcoin philosophy and the expectations built around it. [07:46]
xoinfinityox gotcha [07:47]
xoinfinityox @monolithik thx [07:47]
mircea_popescu yeah, the stack exchange link is on point. [07:47]
xoinfinityox i gotcha, they can get out in front of the actual chain [07:48]
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mircea_popescu we're roughly past the point where this is feasible, which is one of the major things tghat changed since back in spring. [07:50]
monolithik network consolidation is definitely a problem. Best case scenario IMO: ASIC development hits the point where an increase in ghash/watt would be reducible to a general improvement in human knowledge of semiconductors. At that point bitcoin ASICs will become commoditized like Intel CPUs, and the distribution of hashpower would settle to some equilibrium where power was not too widely concentrated [07:51]
mircea_popescu monolithik i tell you, it's when upscale bathrooms come with miners in the tile [07:52]
mircea_popescu that's the endgame. [07:52]
xoinfinityox i would prefer to be a slumlord with the same tiles [07:53]
monolithik question: will people run miners unprofitably to ensure that nobody has a majority share? [07:53]
Duffer1 mircea what do you base your assumption on that us/china govs are hashing? [07:53]
mircea_popescu Duffer1 not rly an assumption. ppl have asked before, but i never said anything. [07:54]
xoinfinityox mono: i think once you get the market consolidated to a few big players, they will compete pretty fiercely [07:54]
mircea_popescu monolithik mining is roughly slightly unprofitable on the spot today, and has been for a while. on the long term it will remain so. [07:54]
xoinfinityox the value of their own coins vs the risk of losing them should keep from cartelizing [07:54]
Duffer1 if it's not an assumption then how do you know? [07:55]
mircea_popescu the thing is, cartels are not really profitable. [07:55]
mircea_popescu Duffer1 that's what i do, i spy. [07:55]
monolithik will people abandon bitcoin if some kind of nefarious mining cartel forms? Is that enough of a disencentive for the miners to do so? [07:55]
monolithik so far, the system has shown to be incentive-safe in practice [07:55]
xoinfinityox i dont think mining cartels would really be profitable or efficient [07:56]
mircea_popescu people will definitely abandon bitcoin if it fucks up. hash concentration is one such fuckup. [07:56]
mircea_popescu implementing any sort of legal controls is more of such a fuckup. [07:56]
xoinfinityox for large entities like nations (banks?) i think the value / advantage of ownership would keep them mining [07:56]
monolithik agreed. what is your opinion of libbitcoin/darkwallet initiatives? [07:56]
monolithik that was directed toward mircea [07:57]
mircea_popescu monolithik probably too soon to have one. [07:57]
monolithik I read some of the libbitcoin source. It is high quality. [07:58]
mircea_popescu the wilson guy definitely means well. i don't see he;s delivering any value yet, but it's way too early. the other thing sounds like it means well, same situation. [07:58]
monolithik extensive use of boost::asio for purely async networking. [07:58]
monolithik I don't know about most of the other people involved, but Amir Taaki is a talented engineer. [07:59]
mircea_popescu he's also bitcoin's chief retard. [07:59]
monolithik yeah he is pretty terrible as a spokesperson. But his code is good [07:59]
mircea_popescu seems of late he's taken to heart the invitation to do less of the speaking. [08:00]
mircea_popescu that can't hurt anything. [08:00]
monolithik yeah. I agree with the need to have multiple implementations. Right now the main point of centralization is the core development team. [08:00]
xoinfinityox what articles on trilema are required reading for getting started with btc? [08:01]
Duffer1 all of them [08:01]
monolithik Obviously there are difficulties with ensuring that they all interoperate properly, but that just leads to better standardization, which is good. [08:01]
mircea_popescu that's kinda dying, really. anyway, yes, it's a good use of resources and has been for a while to try and specify the code. bar that, alternate implementations may work. [08:01]
mircea_popescu xoinfinityox hit the bitcoin category, can't hurt anything. [08:01]
mircea_popescu maybe even make your own list and publish it somewhere. [08:02]
xoinfinityox thx [08:02]
xoinfinityox sorry for the total n00b question [08:02]
xoinfinityox i'm trying to give myself the crash course [08:03]
mircea_popescu monolithik exactly. also, if there's going to be improvements to the concept, they may be discovered this way. atm we don't really know what utterly sucks in bitcoin. [08:03]
Duffer1 xoinfinityox https://www.udemy.com/bitcoin-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-crypto for the technical, trilema for perspective [08:03]
mircea_popescu sort-of like nobody figured out why ruby on rails utterly sucks until they had tried to make websites in it for a few years and they could never get one secure. then it was pretty clear. [08:04]
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mircea_popescu but yeah, Duffer1 has a point, trilema isn't exactly a manual, more like that one asshole instructor in karate that just beats the shit out of you and then laughs. [08:05]
monolithik mircea: I think that bitcoin or a direct descendant (i.e. forked from the current chain, not some premined crap) will win. It's classic "worse is better". [08:05]
Duffer1 hehe [08:05]
mircea_popescu monolithik i agree, but that means little in the context. [08:06]
mircea_popescu for instance, people in fiat think fiat will win. [08:06]
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monolithik (I don't think we are disagreeing with eachother) the best technology doesn't always win. The one that is first to market that is un-shitty enough to provide some value wins. [08:07]
monolithik thats why I think altcoins are futile. [08:07]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.28039999 = 2.804 BTC [+] {3} [08:07]
xoinfinityox what really distinguishes most altcoins at this point anyway? [08:08]
Duffer1 quite a lot actually [08:08]
Duffer1 lower transaction times, different proofs work [08:08]
Duffer1 proofs of stake [08:09]
benkay what's more important is their unifying theme of irrelevance. [08:09]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I believe Vircurex is now the Canonical example of the failure of RoR to accomplish anything [08:10]
Duffer1 there's legit innovation that should occur, alts serve that purpose [08:10]
benkay nah. 10m/block is fine [08:10]
mircea_popescu monolithik perhaps many alt chains are futile. keeping one on hand just in case makes some sense tho [08:10]
mircea_popescu or at least the mkt seems to think so. [08:10]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo nah, davout's site is the cannonical example opf that. [08:11]
monolithik i think that the idea of using a memory-hard hash function (e.g. scrypt a la litecoin) is good, but not enough of a gain to offset the network effects of all the infrastructure built up around btc [08:14]
toffoo so mircea_popescu getting back to us/china gov mining, did you just make that up or is it based on any kind of evidence? [08:16]
mircea_popescu i didn't just make it up. [08:17]
toffoo then what? [08:17]
toffoo a vivid dream? [08:19]
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benkay didn't your name once only have one trailing 'o', toffoo? [08:20]
benkay ;;gettrust toffoo [08:20]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user toffoo: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=toffoo | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=toffoo | Rated since: Tue Mar 15 18:00:23 2011 [08:20]
benkay ;;gettrust toffo [08:20]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user toffo: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=toffo | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=toffo | Rated since: never [08:20]
benkay hah nevermind. [08:21]
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xoinfinityox NARC GET HIM [08:21]
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toffoo benkay only very briefly, like the first day [08:22]
xoinfinityox really tho it makes sense [08:22]
xoinfinityox (gov't mining) [08:22]
xoinfinityox if they're gonna seize a couple $MM in bitcoins [08:22]
xoinfinityox might as well protect those assets [08:23]
toffoo maybe in 5-10years it makes sense, not in 2013 [08:23]
xoinfinityox gotta protect for the future by starting now [08:23]
mircea_popescu toffoo summer of 2013,a ctually. [08:23]
mircea_popescu it became a definite a coupla months back, but they had been doing it for a while. [08:23]
xoinfinityox I understand mircea not wanting to drop his sources, but I would think you can follow an appropriations bill or something to find the proof [08:24]
benkay unless the pentagon's doing it. [08:24]
benkay unless any bureau with acceptable operational financing is doing it. [08:24]
benkay unless anyone with any real power is behind it. [08:24]
xoinfinityox i guess it depends on the purpose [08:24]
benkay depends far more on involved individuals. [08:26]
benkay the great all seeing eye of USG mk. IV will not of its own make any decisions. [08:26]
xoinfinityox you've lost me there [08:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23450 @ 0.00091006 = 21.3409 BTC [+] {2} [08:27]
xoinfinityox what's the hypothetical effect on the market of an announcement that gov'ts are mining? [08:27]
xoinfinityox thats kind of what i'mgetting at [08:27]
benkay much like walmart does not hate women and want to prevent them from earning dollar parity with men, the .75/1.00 ratio is the accumulation of many individual's decisions [08:27]
Duffer1 if confirmed i expect the price will rocket [08:27]
benkay bafflement and confusion? inability to comprehend relevance of statement? [08:27]
benkay i kid.. [08:28]
xoinfinityox i agree with you that if the goal is defense/intelligence/law enforcement keeping it secret is preferrable [08:28]
benkay let's play a thought game [08:29]
xoinfinityox or wanting to do anything shady with it [08:29]
benkay we sit down to a poker game [08:29]
benkay wherein you derive some small benefit from knowing what i plan to do and the motivations behind it [08:29]
benkay why would any competent actor in the scenario disclose targets goals strategies or philosophies!? [08:30]
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xoinfinityox i don't think your analogy fits the situation [08:31]
xoinfinityox this isn't about strategy, its about whether the US is playing the game at all [08:31]
xoinfinityox a better analogy might be, you sit down and the guy across from you is phil helmuth, or its some random guy [08:31]
benkay no, they are playing the game. you were making some sort of claim about their goals vis-a-vis sketchiness. [08:32]
xoinfinityox that isn't confirmed at this point [08:32]
xoinfinityox i don't doubt mircea's veracity, but one source does not a fact makee [08:32]
benkay well by the time one waits for confirmation of a fact the market has long since priced it in typically [08:33]
xoinfinityox did the market move based on mircea's article? [08:34]
Duffer1 germany timezone waking up [08:35]
xoinfinityox i'm not trying to argue here - still trying to figure out how this market works [08:35]
mircea_popescu if confirmed i expect the price will rocket << you know it was announced before btc rocketed ? [08:35]
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benkay arguing is all -assets does, xoinfinityox ;) [08:35]
xoinfinityox well in that case... [08:36]
Duffer1 announced? [08:36]
xoinfinityox party on ;) [08:36]
mircea_popescu Duffer1 yes, that 16th of oct article linked earlier, is where it was announced. toffoo has been asking me about whence and wherefore ever since. [08:37]
Duffer1 ah i see [08:37]
mircea_popescu put that timeline on a graph. [08:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.0487 = 0.5357 BTC [-] [08:38]
benkay and people wonder why mining is unprofitable. [08:38]
toffoo I just saw the article for the first time today, when you linked it earlier.. [08:38]
mircea_popescu i wonder who was hounding me the next day then hm [08:38]
mircea_popescu benkay kinda designed to be that way ya kno ? [08:39]
toffoo if it turns there's some truth to the statement, color me surprised [08:39]
Duffer1 maybe toffo with one o? :P [08:39]
xoinfinityox im curious why other news outlets don't pick it up [08:39]
benkay yeah i don't quite understand that, mircea_popescu. [08:39]
Duffer1 no proof = not really newsworthy, regardless of who says it [08:39]
mircea_popescu a no twasn't him. my bad. [08:40]
Duffer1 in this case it's still probably worth paying attention to though [08:40]
nubbins` http://imgur.com/6IrvrJk [08:40]
nubbins` halfway through a 4-color print run [08:40]
mircea_popescu xoinfinityox other news outlets don't practically exist. what's out there ? [08:40]
mircea_popescu "hey guise, here's a cool idea, make us president coins narf" ? [08:40]
ozbot imgur: the simple image sharer [08:41]
benkay mircea_popescu: how does mining being unprofitable make bitcoing work? [08:41]
benkay bitcoin* [08:41]
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nubbins` it encourages people to get the hashrate climbing as fast as fucking possible [08:41]
mircea_popescu benkay you read the buffett bit re commodified markets ? [08:42]
xoinfinityox @mircea_popescu other news outlets and tech blogs pick up gov't regulation / seizure of btc events [08:42]
benkay mircea_popescu: yeah but fail to draw the dots [08:42]
xoinfinityox like i said, i'm a total noob at btc but prooof that gov'ts are mining would be a huge headline [08:43]
xoinfinityox imo [08:43]
mircea_popescu xoinfinityox i guess that may be interesting in the sense pointing the spot lights at airplane wrecks could be interesting. meanwhile in the real war... [08:43]
benkay nubbins`: but rational market participants won't buy if their investment never returns, so how does unprofitable mining work forever? [08:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3868 @ 0.00090627 = 3.5055 BTC [-] [08:43]
benkay or even ever, as a part of the thing? [08:43]
mircea_popescu benkay well, the hash power is designed to be commodified. this means it'll always sell just a shade under average cost. [08:43]
xoinfinityox i know, im at a really topical level right now [08:43]
nubbins` benkay: rational market participants are absent, for starters [08:43]
mircea_popescu rational market participants are individually rational. [08:44]
xoinfinityox so accepting that fact as true, where is the real war? [08:44]
nubbins` benkay: the people buying mining hardware are falling over themselves trying to get it hashing as fast as possible, so they maximize their returns [08:44]
benkay some get their goods at an acceptable rate and delivered on an acceptable time, making money etc. this drives others in who make less excellent ops decisions, ruining margin. [08:44]
mircea_popescu benkay : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201268.msg2121475#msg2121475 [08:45]
mircea_popescu " Each proposal to do so looked like an immediate winner. Measured by standard return-on-investment tests, in fact, these proposals usually promised greater economic benefits than would have resulted from comparable expenditures in our highly-profitable candy and newspaper businesses." [08:45]
nubbins` sure [08:45]
mircea_popescu "Viewed individually, each company's capital investment decision appeared cost-effective and rational; viewed collectively, the decisions neutralized each other and were irrational, just as happens when each person watching a parade decides he can see a little better if he stands on tiptoes." [08:45]
benkay your lessons as always appreciated. [08:47]
benkay apparently i had to read that post 5 times before it made sense in context. [08:47]
benkay and must read it another 5 for penance. [08:47]
mircea_popescu that's ok, i just keep linking the same shit over and over. [08:47]
mircea_popescu surprisingly, it still delivers benefits way past the 5th repetition. [08:48]
nubbins` re: textiles [08:49]
mircea_popescu anyway, that;'s a particularly well fit quote. if only the various twentysomething ex-geek now bitcoin financiers & investors had a financial culture. [08:49]
nubbins` the 2008 meltdown caused cotton prices to skyrocket for a few months in late 2010 [08:50]
nubbins` ~4x normal [08:50]
nubbins` this was right around the time i started printing [08:51]
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nubbins` spent several months wondering where the fuck these people on the forums were getting $2 blanks until i realized that was a thing of the past [08:51]
mircea_popescu ha. [08:51]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.0629 = 0.629 BTC [+] [08:54]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.001 = 1 BTC [09:02]
nubbins` doge is kind of taking over the public consciousness, hey? [09:03]
mircea_popescu notrly. [09:04]
mircea_popescu it tried about a decade ago too, failed then too. [09:05]
nubbins` http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjzDl93HIFo [09:06]
ozbot Leonard Cohen - The Partisan / ISLE OF WIGHT 1970 - YouTube [09:06]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: That just means Doge has passed critical mass. Expect Old meme to set in soon. [09:07]
jurov first came drama-backed currency, then meme-backed, what's next? [09:08]
benkay meme:silver::drama:gold [09:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.281 BTC [+] [09:08]
xoinfinityox next is ryan gosling-backed [09:09]
xoinfinityox i don't have a hey girl coin joke yet tho :( [09:09]
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BingoBoingo xoinfinityox: That's totally old meme, worthless for coining [09:10]
benkay genesis block must be at least not be rotting on the floor stinking of irrelevancy. [09:11]
xoinfinityox im ryan gosling irl, screw you guys [09:11]
mircea_popescu doge was old meme in 2007 [09:11]
benkay but now it's MRRRNSTRRRRM. [09:12]
nubbins` heh. [09:12]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 154 @ 0.00273997 = 0.422 BTC [+] {2} [09:13]
benkay http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/18/world/asia/outrage-in-india-over-female-diplomats-arrest-in-new-york.html?src=recg&_r=0 [09:13]
benkay security apparatus recruitment pitch: "meet strange new people! put your hand up their butts!" [09:13]
mircea_popescu muricans gotta get it in their square jawed skulls that there's a difference between the rich and the poor, and confusing this difference will get you exterminated. [09:14]
* BingoBoingo is impressed having had less cavity searches on intake than the diplomat. [09:15]
mircea_popescu fucking travesty of justice, to pretend like you can meddle with the top tier. [09:15]
benkay who's going to get exterminated, mp? [09:16]
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* BingoBoingo is also amazed not that Korea is ahead of the US in a given technology, but that the given technology is frying chicken [09:17]
jurov BingoBoingo: you do realize that you have one searchable cavity less? [09:17]
BingoBoingo jurov: Sure, but I had no cavities searched. [09:17]
BingoBoingo ;;ud sound docking [09:18]
gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sound%20Docking | The act of inserting one's penis into another man's urethra. See also Sounding and Docking. [09:18]
ozbot Urban Dictionary: Sound Docking [09:18]
mircea_popescu benkay anyone who believes that, to quote asciilifeform's earlier quoted article, "the U.S. government expects laws to be followed by everyone in the USA" may translate as hassling a foreign high class person [09:18]
xoinfinityox you stick that in your butt [09:18]
BingoBoingo ;;ud sounding [09:18]
gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sounding | The practice of inserting plastic or metal 'sounds' (long thin and very smooth objects) into yours or someone elses uretha. Ultimately leads to str... [09:18]
ozbot Urban Dictionary: sounding [09:19]
KRS|Gotyawallet (_._) [09:19]
mircea_popescu or, for the earlier example, anyone who imagines a lower court us judge has the authority to detain strauss, and the testimony of a hotel maid can serve as basis for such [09:19]
xoinfinityox ;;ud boofing [09:19]
gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boofing | The act of inserting drugs into the anus for a longer trip. Most often occurs at Disco Biscuits shows by spun-out kids on ketamine. [09:19]
ozbot Urban Dictionary: boofing [09:19]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04515011 = 0.2258 BTC [-] [09:19]
mircea_popescu there's just no room in the world for such nonsense. you can arrest a bum because some other bum said so. [09:19]
mircea_popescu powerful people get their own courts and their own procedures or else. [09:20]
benkay nobody's getting their head chopped off in that case. [09:20]
xoinfinityox its true [09:20]
xoinfinityox they have special id cards and everything [09:20]
mircea_popescu xoinfinityox well apparently they don't anymore, not in india. [09:21]
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mircea_popescu anyway, this pedestrian equalitariansm has gone way beyond far enough. [09:22]
BingoBoingo truff1es: Brown skin not created by a spray tan [09:23]
xoinfinityox its an amurrica thing [09:23]
BingoBoingo Never know when you might find a Kardashian as opposed to an actual foreigner [09:23]
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benkay state department ordered just means that someone in the state department decided she needed a fist up the pooper. [09:23]
xoinfinityox thats how we send a message in modern politics [09:25]
xoinfinityox used to be you sent a fleet of ships out and blockaded a small island nation [09:25]
mircea_popescu except the message is "we're much too big for our breeches, please take us down three notches." [09:25]
mircea_popescu and it deffo shall be done. [09:25]
BingoBoingo There are exactly 3 rules for being minimally hassled upon arrest in the United States: 1. Be white and hava a shitty American Accent 2. Wear a suit 3. Don't smell like a hobo [09:25]
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xoinfinityox mircea: isn't that the whole point of this channel? :) [09:26]
benkay it's not simply los estados unidos, however, it's the entire fiat system. usg simply sits atop it for the meantime. [09:26]
mircea_popescu xoinfinityox sort-of. notrly, i think the point of this channel is more like, hm. [09:26]
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mircea_popescu what was the point of this channel again ? [09:27]
truff1es chattery [09:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18102 @ 0.00090466 = 16.3762 BTC [-] {3} [09:27]
benkay freedom [09:27]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I think the point was not being -otc? [09:27]
truff1es i must say the "rules" in here are the more free in rooms ive frequented [09:28]
mircea_popescu i seem to remember simpleminded psychopathy was on the list. [09:28]
truff1es laissez faire kinda thing [09:28]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I thought the simpleminded part was refuted... [09:28]
xoinfinityox unless there is an invisible hand up your anus [09:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.28799999 = 0.576 BTC [+] {2} [09:30]
benkay actually that does bring up a good point: the difference between psychotic and psychopathic [09:30]
BingoBoingo benkay: THe difference is that Vitamin H can surpress the former, but not the latter [09:31]
truff1es violent social behavior hmm [09:31]
xoinfinityox speaking of [09:32]
xoinfinityox im gonna go rob a 7-11 [09:32]
xoinfinityox cya [09:32]
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BingoBoingo (By vitamin H I mean Haloperidol and not the bullshit actual medical references are returning) [09:32]
benkay mircea_popescu is unsurpressable regardless of his psych status [09:34]
benkay i recall something about an entire litre of grain alcohol? [09:35]
BingoBoingo WHere? [09:36]
truff1es "An earlier version of this article misstated the surname of India’s national security adviser. He is Shivshankar Menon, not Moon." hehe [09:36]
benkay http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-12-2013&bots=true#407028 [09:37]
ozbot #bitcoin-assets log [09:37]
benkay i'm just saying [09:39]
benkay bitcoin satan is invincible [09:39]
benkay at 1m/coin, he will bathe in virgins lactation while taking their virginity six in a session [09:40]
truff1es a new legend eh [09:40]
benkay at 1b/coin he will hog-tie the entire dev team and make them watch unspeakable horrors [09:40]
mircea_popescu benkay i never liked doing virgins [09:41]
benkay or even better have their patches to the original client reviewed by his crack squad of c she-coders [09:41]
mircea_popescu crack squad of she c-coders ahahaha [09:41]
mircea_popescu crack see ? hence c. [09:41]
mircea_popescu !b 7 [09:41]
assbot Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1512395/plain/) [09:41]
benkay mircea_popescu facts [09:43]
benkay must be thoroughly mixed with truth for maximum lulz [09:43]
mircea_popescu lol [09:44]
mircea_popescu anyway, yes, a liter, wasn't grain alcohol tho. [09:44]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.0628 = 0.1256 BTC [-] [09:44]
mircea_popescu plum. [09:44]
benkay what abv? [09:45]
* truff1es *cough* get a room *cough* [09:46]
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mircea_popescu what's an abv ? [09:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.0629 = 0.1887 BTC [+] [09:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00293 = 0.1289 BTC [+] [09:54]
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mircea_popescu oh. like 105-110 proof, something like that. [09:57]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 21 @ 0.27024998 = 5.6752 BTC [-] {10} [10:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00090606 = 12.5942 BTC [+] [10:21]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.0628 = 0.1884 BTC [-] [10:23]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [11:20]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading [11:20]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013 [11:20]
davout mircea_popescu: ranting about rails again heh [11:20]
mircea_popescu rar! [11:21]
monolithik anyway, is it safe to use djb's nacl library in production to encrypt messages over the wire? [11:21]
mircea_popescu too soon to tell [11:25]
azi` ruby on rails still exists? [11:26]
davout mircea_popescu: so i did a quick test but i couldn't find an order id in the stat or statjson for me to know which order the reported execution is related to [11:28]
davout i see a 'Track' field in the statjson that i don't have in the regular stat but it doesn't look like an order id [11:29]
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mircea_popescu davout as to the track value, http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-improved-order-tracking/ [11:37]
mircea_popescu you diff your book too see what was hit. [11:38]
davout yeah, that was the other way i way thinking of [11:38]
davout should give the same info [11:39]
mircea_popescu azi` notrly. [11:40]
davout ok, i see how the tracking field works [11:42]
davout how about the case where an order makes it to the book but gets eaten before i get a chance to issue a stat? [11:42]
davout it'll appear in the executed orders, possibly among other executions [11:43]
davout it's not going to be ap problem for me though, curious tho [11:45]
mircea_popescu so it appears among the executed orders. you know it's executed, at what price and what qty. [11:46]
mircea_popescu how's this trouble you ? [11:46]
davout heh it doesn't, just trying to think about whether there are edge cases that your solution doesn't cover, because you know, that's what i do :) [11:48]
mircea_popescu :) [11:48]
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mircea_popescu don't let me dissuiade you, it's a good thing. [11:49]
davout nobody dissuades david francois of nitpicking on edge cases [11:49]
mircea_popescu hehe [11:50]
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davout but from what i understand, simply adding an order id to the reported executions isn't really trivial on your end [11:51]
davout WHERE IS YOUR PHP GOD NAO [11:51]
mircea_popescu pgp god ? [11:52]
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davout heh [11:52]
davout nvm [11:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 5000 @ 0.0029691 = 14.8455 BTC [+] {19} [11:53]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04878988 = 0.2439 BTC [+] [12:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4521 @ 0.00090347 = 4.0846 BTC [-] [12:34]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 195 @ 0.00297195 = 0.5795 BTC [+] [12:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.0221 = 0.1989 BTC [-] [12:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 19 @ 0.045 = 0.855 BTC [+] [12:45]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [18:34]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading [18:34]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013 [18:34]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla i was in the us ?! [18:35]
kakobrekla no, romania is, it seems [18:36]
mircea_popescu but seriously, the decriminalize corruption thing is quite along the lines of my thinking. [18:36]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2012/de-ce-coruptia-nu-va-putea-fi-niciodata-eliminata/ << 2012 [18:36]
ozbot De ce coruptia nu va putea fi niciodata eliminata pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [18:36]
mircea_popescu "why corruption is basically a good thing" etc. [18:36]
mircea_popescu besides, when the us says "you're taking a step back" you know you must be doing something right. [18:37]
kakobrekla that article has too much unrecognizable words [18:38]
kakobrekla also stop burning my trilema credits [18:38]
kakobrekla im runing low. [18:38]
mircea_popescu lolk [18:38]
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mircea_popescu that special moment when weird people who sorta-failed at pitching you cc your response to their *trainer*, so now you get a scatterback of the fucking weird funk that created the weird people in the first place. [18:42]
* Disconnected (Connection timed out). [18:58]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [18:59]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading [18:59]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013 [18:59]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [19:37]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading [19:37]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:53 2013 [19:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 99754 @ 0.00012 = 11.9705 BTC [+] [19:40]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [20:23]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com - all days worth reading [20:23]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Nov 27 22:34:54 2013 [20:23]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 94258 @ 0.00012 = 11.311 BTC [+] [20:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10356 @ 0.0009041 = 9.3629 BTC [+] [20:35]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00012 = 0.6 BTC [+] [20:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10000 @ 0.00012 = 1.2 BTC [+] [20:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1880 @ 0.00012 = 0.2256 BTC [+] [20:48]
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mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/cardano-xmas-blown-other-statements/ [21:04]
ozbot Cardano : Xmas blown, other statements pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [21:05]
jurov "Well managed stakeholder expectations should keep blowback to a minimum in case of failure. Supposedly we have exceptional, unmatched strengths in PR, which we now have an opportunity to test, which is valuable." [21:06]
KRS|Gotyawallet holy smokes, this is big [21:06]
KRS|Gotyawallet http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/12/19/overstock-com-to-accept-bitcoins-ceo-says-money-is-too-important-to-leave-in-the-hands-of-government-officials/ [21:06]
jurov srsly? [21:06]
ozbot Overstock.com to accept bitcoins; CEO says 'money is too important to leave in the hands of governme [21:06]
KRS|Gotyawallet +1000 for bitcoin [21:06]
KRS|Gotyawallet major retailer [21:07]
mircea_popescu jurov theory says. [21:07]
jurov no one gives a fuck about cardano = unmatched PR strength [21:07]
mircea_popescu lol [21:07]
mircea_popescu KRS|Gotyawallet pretty cool. [21:07]
KRS|Gotyawallet indeed had to bring the only the freshest news here to my friends in #bitcoin-assets [21:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 13 @ 0.05207384 = 0.677 BTC [-] {3} [21:08]
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mircea_popescu i like the guy's attitude anyway. [21:09]
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mircea_popescu i guess this dethrones roger ver as Bitcoin Jesus of the Used Computer Parts ? [21:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.05 = 0.25 BTC [-] [21:09]
jurov mircea you have used laz0rs to make cardanos? liquid cooled ones? y u no photos? [21:10]
jurov :D [21:10]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 11 @ 0.04632909 = 0.5096 BTC [-] {3} [21:10]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform can you satisfy the inquiring minds by snapping a coupla shots of the ded lazr ? [21:11]
mircea_popescu ( jurov it's for cutting the plastic casing, not rly anything supersexy) [21:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.0009041 = 5.1534 BTC [+] [21:11]
jurov you really do think nubbins` manboobs are sexier than that? [21:12]
jurov sry nubs [21:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 120 @ 0.002799 = 0.3359 BTC [+] [21:13]
mircea_popescu you got a point [21:14]
jurov but seriously, if asciilifeform does most of the prototype including casing himself, that calls for photo here and there [21:16]
jurov nerd porn [21:16]
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ThickAsThieves http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/12/19/join-our-live-qa-on-thursday-is-bitcoin-a-passing-fad-or-here-to-stay/?mod=e2tw [21:17]
ozbot Join Our Live Q&A on Thursday: Is Bitcoin a Passing Fad, or Here to Stay? - MoneyBeat - WSJ [21:17]
Bugpowder overstock!?! [21:17]
Bugpowder wowo [21:17]
Bugpowder 3Q2014 :( [21:17]
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ThickAsThieves right after the next bubble burst [21:17]
Duffer1 thas ok [21:17]
Duffer1 more will come [21:17]
ThickAsThieves that link is live now btw [21:17]
* kanzure_ is now known as kanzure [21:18]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves who's "our" ? [21:18]
ThickAsThieves atm: [21:19]
ThickAsThieves Patrick Murck (BTC foundation lawyer), [21:19]
ThickAsThieves Jason Zweig, [21:20]
ThickAsThieves Paul Vigna, [21:20]
ThickAsThieves Michael Casey [21:20]
ThickAsThieves current topic is super noring security aspects [21:20]
ThickAsThieves boring* [21:20]
mircea_popescu "i think it's here to say but please don't misconstrue anything i say into grounds to sue me. also don't ask me about various milky topics re the bf" [21:21]
Duffer1 how long is this discussion? [21:22]
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asciilifeform photo. [21:22]
asciilifeform dead component in question is the motor driver board [21:22]
asciilifeform anyone actually wants to see this? [21:22]
mircea_popescu yes. [21:22]
ThickAsThieves "What does everyone else think about the idea of Gox allowing rapid transactions to mexico and brazil and other "cocaine rich" countries. Is this not going to create a hyper bubble? " [21:23]
kakobrekla wait is this -otc? [21:24]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla it's -otc identical flavouring. [21:25]
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jurov at least i made 0.09 BTC off bitbet :D, thx mircea [21:26]
ThickAsThieves this is a chore to watch, nvm [21:26]
Duffer1 lol ya [21:26]
Duffer1 wat r blockchain [21:26]
kakobrekla stop printing money gavin! [21:26]
Duffer1 gavin andreson, chief bitcoin scientist [21:26]
kakobrekla gavin bernankenson [21:27]
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ThickAsThieves he blinded me with science! [21:27]
mircea_popescu lol chief bitcoin scientist, that's a good one [21:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 34700 @ 0.00012 = 4.164 BTC [+] [21:30]
asciilifeform ok photos: [21:30]
asciilifeform warning: quite boring [21:30]
asciilifeform laser cutter. quite ordinary. currently, unfortunately, has become a 'drill'. [21:30]
asciilifeform https://unsee.cc/zedumo/ [21:30]
ozbot Unsee — Secure and private temporary image hosting [21:30]
asciilifeform (why unsee? because betcha there's a plasma panel at nsa that shows these in real time...) [21:31]
asciilifeform next, the reason the latter machine has become a drill: [21:31]
asciilifeform controller removed. https://unsee.cc/wadizu/ [21:31]
asciilifeform why removed? [21:31]
pankkake oh, unsee.cc is the kind of service I was looking for [21:31]
asciilifeform because: https://unsee.cc/woduge/ [21:31]
asciilifeform magic smoke released. [21:31]
asciilifeform the end (for now.) until the new a3983 comes in from hong kong and i can lift the turd off the board and put new one in. [21:31]
asciilifeform the end. [21:31]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 750 @ 0.00296204 = 2.2215 BTC [+] {4} [21:34]
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asciilifeform once again, machine in question is essentially an expensive saw. though a very precise saw. [21:37]
asciilifeform it only cuts plastics (and various other materials with relatively poor heat conductivity, such as glass.) [21:37]
mircea_popescu looks more like a glorified sewing machien, but hey. [21:38]
mircea_popescu what do i know of geek pr0ns :D [21:38]
ThickAsThieves lol why is btc-e trollbox saying I need another $99.99 to chat? [21:39]
asciilifeform squat little box on the bottom left is a chiller. [21:39]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves cause you got 99 problems ? [21:40]
asciilifeform nothing terribly exciting, esp. since the thing is a paperweight pending a new stepper IC [21:40]
jborkl you already used up your 1000 chat credits? [21:40]
jborkl new fee introduced to remove troll spam from the trollbox- $99.99 for 1000 chat credits [21:41]
mircea_popescu x.idiffs are back [21:43]
mircea_popescu pls don't be shy to report any issues. [21:43]
mircea_popescu jborkl does that mean a dime per chat line ?! [21:43]
jborkl I am just trolling [21:44]
mircea_popescu o [21:44]
pankkake too bad, that would be genius [21:45]
ThickAsThieves my guess is $100 balance is required [21:46]
ThickAsThieves to weed out troll accounts [21:46]
mircea_popescu wow, the 30btc thing is catching on! [21:46]
Duffer1 ya TaT [21:47]
Duffer1 min balance required for chat to function [21:47]
ThickAsThieves btc-e is growing up i guess [21:47]
ThickAsThieves next thing yknow therell be no chat box at all [21:48]
Duffer1 chat is just as useless, just less spammy [21:48]
ThickAsThieves too much human mod needed [21:49]
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ThickAsThieves humans are too costly [21:49]
mircea_popescu chat is just as useless, just less spammy << lol [21:49]
Bugpowder You need to hold at least $100 worth of currency to chat [21:50]
Bugpowder or bitcoin [21:50]
ThickAsThieves Bug i have more than that [21:50]
ThickAsThieves i think it has to be fiat [21:50]
ThickAsThieves denominated [21:50]
mircea_popescu btc-e doing their part to help the usd have real world value ? [21:51]
Duffer1 hehe [21:51]
ThickAsThieves or maybe it doesnt count coins tied to orders? [21:51]
jurov mircea_popescu: the new lot is nowhere mentioned and the examples are presumably wrong: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=X.IDIFF.MAR [21:52]
jurov but since you have unmatched PR strength, you can gloss over such details, i guess :D [21:53]
the20year2 credits to talk? wow [21:53]
mircea_popescu jurov i can do aaanything. [21:53]
the20year2 I hope they don't start charging for IRC [21:53]
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Duffer1 borkl was trollin [21:54]
mircea_popescu the20year2 everything worthwhile will cost money eventually. [21:54]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 48 @ 0.00283666 = 0.1362 BTC [+] {3} [21:56]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 96 @ 0.00297 = 0.2851 BTC [+] [21:58]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 35 @ 0.045 = 1.575 BTC [+] [21:58]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [COG] 23 @ 0.05286954 = 1.216 BTC [+] {4} [21:58]
mircea_popescu jurov better ? [21:59]
jurov yes, much better [22:00]
jurov oh and MKOPT/SPLIT in the FAQ still suffers from this, too [22:01]
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mircea_popescu yeah but updating the faq is a pain cause i had to go and get it translated ;/ [22:02]
mircea_popescu adding to the list tho [22:02]
jurov kk [22:03]
mircea_popescu the20year2 so re your listing idea, do you have your reports posted anywhere ? what's the cashflow like ? etc. [22:04]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1376 @ 0.0028 = 3.8528 BTC [-] [22:05]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 99 @ 0.02287574 = 2.2647 BTC [+] {3} [22:07]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00279899 = 0.2799 BTC [-] [22:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.00090428 = 25.9528 BTC [+] {2} [22:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0487896 = 0.4879 BTC [-] [22:08]
the20year2 mircea , i send out cashflow reports to all our investors now , i don't make them public. I can send over our current business plan + cashflow report if you'd want [22:09]
mircea_popescu well, i dunno how serious you are about trying to list. [22:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1178 @ 0.00297086 = 3.4997 BTC [+] {2} [22:09]
the20year2 We're finally cashflowing from rental income, but the bigger money is from our equity gain, our total USD investment was $92,668.54 and our current asset & capital value is $192,035.16 [22:10]
the20year2 And that's since the last part of July [22:10]
mircea_popescu uh [22:10]
mircea_popescu how many units is 192k ?! [22:10]
Duffer1 rental starter? [22:10]
the20year2 units? As in properties? [22:10]
the20year2 Duffer1: yes [22:10]
mike_c re: translations. I have had good success with programmatically getting good human translations from http://gengo.com/. [22:10]
Duffer1 cool [22:10]
mircea_popescu the20year2 yes as in properties [22:11]
the20year2 Yes, just two houses [22:11]
mircea_popescu except units, ie, independently leased parts of a property. [22:11]
mircea_popescu so how do you gain confidence in your equity evaluation ? [22:11]
the20year2 In my area, the median home value is around $100k, and most of what we're looking at are going in the ~$30,000 range [22:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 100 @ 0.00339966 = 0.34 BTC [+] {5} [22:11]
ThickAsThieves probly holds bitcoins [22:12]
the20year2 I've had 3rd parties assess the liquidation value as well as my own value estimates since I've been in the business of evaluating properties for every large financial firm in the US [22:12]
mircea_popescu and what makes you confident you can efficiently deploy capital ? in what limits ? [22:12]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 7406 @ 0.00012 = 0.8887 BTC [+] [22:12]
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Duffer1 are you counting btc appreciation on top of your units for your total equity #? [22:13]
the20year2 No Duffer1 [22:13]
the20year2 That's covered in the business plan mircea_popescu. We feel that we can deploy around $100k of capital per month [22:13]
the20year2 (Into new properties/purchases that is) [22:13]
Duffer1 ^.^ [22:13]
mircea_popescu well alright, so send the thing over. [22:14]
the20year2 the BTC appreciation is another ball game and hard for me to personally value. When everything was running on bitfunder decently, our values kept doing well, even as BTC/USD started to gain [22:14]
mikaeldice Spending it seems to be the easy part :) [22:14]
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the20year2 Not exactly [22:14]
mircea_popescu started is one thing. btc went up what, 50x this year. [22:15]
the20year2 in this case, you have to have teams of workers to do the rehab work , qualify tenants. Sure, you can spend more money to 'just get it done', but if you do that you pay retail for everything, and you can't make money by paying what everyone else does [22:15]
Duffer1 sorry i haven't followed rental starter at all, are you registered DPO or did you ipo? [22:15]
the20year2 dpo? [22:16]
Duffer1 direct private offer [22:16]
the20year2 We IPO'd on bitfunder, but are now private/direct due to them shutting down [22:16]
Duffer1 but not legally registered though right? [22:17]
mike_c https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215230.0 [22:17]
ozbot [Direct] RentalStarter - A Midwest Real Estate Investment Company [22:17]
the20year2 Yes, we're registered in Hong Kong and the United states. The hong kong company is connected to the US one through a legal service agreement [22:17]
the20year2 DBA Full Power Asia Investments LTD in Hong Kong [22:17]
Duffer1 thanks, i should probably stop being lazy and just read hehe [22:17]
Duffer1 registered as a company is different from being registered with the SEC (making it legal for you to distribute shares) [22:20]
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Duffer1 the20year2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_public_offering [22:23]
mircea_popescu ;;gettrust the20year2 [22:24]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user the20year2: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=the20year2 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=the20year2 | Rated since: never [22:24]
Duffer1 under 1m offering should qualify you for 504 exemption, but you still will need to register with your state, and adhere to their blue sky laws [22:24]
Duffer1 if you're interested in being squeky clean that is hehe :P [22:25]
the20year2 Our lawyer has made me aware of the requirements, the issue here is that I don't know of any US investors that we have, SEC allows me to file a PPM if/when I'm notified of US investors ,and since startup we've barred US investment [22:25]
the20year2 We've very seriously looked at doing a DPO but I can't round up enough investment to justify it [22:27]
Duffer1 ah, i was under the impression that even if you were operating in the US you'd have to register [22:27]
the20year2 The company that collects funding is not in the US [22:27]
Duffer1 i see [22:27]
the20year2 The funds are sent to a LTD operated in the Hong Kong, of which I am not the director, there is a two way service agremeent between the two entities, according to what my personal understanding is, it can work that way. if we take on US investors, it needs to be done so at the US LLC level, and we then need to register [22:28]
the20year2 We'll qualify for most US crowdfunding and DPO laws next year as we're bringing a accounting firm into the mix in Janurary when we have our first book audit [22:29]
Duffer1 do you take a salary? [22:30]
the20year2 I am the majority shareholder in the company, there is also a 15% management fee that comes into place. In order to comply with US tax laws, I take my dividends + management fee as salary [22:31]
Duffer1 cool, looks like a solid project, good luck :) [22:32]
the20year2 So far, so good. I Just thought early on that banks would be more open to adding us to portfolo lending [22:33]
the20year2 If that was the case there'd be no problem and i wouldn't give a care about listing anywhere [22:33]
Duffer1 hehehe [22:33]
Duffer1 they'd be funding their competition in multiple ways if they backed you [22:34]
Duffer1 they want dat real estate, they don't want bitcoin to live [22:34]
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the20year2 none of the banks i talk to know about bitcoin [22:39]
the20year2 And there's no reason for me to tell them that investors are being paid in bitcoin. ALl they know is that there's a out-of-country service agreement [22:39]
Duffer1 ouch [22:41]
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pankkake http://pastebin.com/96m9Q4UV altcoin scene is sad [22:53]
ozbot Hi Bro, I am here from couple of years and have good knowledge on how to prom - Pastebin.com [22:53]
mircea_popescu how to prom ? [22:54]
mircea_popescu lmao jesus [22:54]
KRS|Gotyawallet i can mine an alt coin and have twice as many bitcoins in the same amount of time as mining bitcoin, selling them at an exchange [22:57]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] [PAID] 17.03088030 BTC to 13`993 shares, 121710 satoshi per share [22:59]
mircea_popescu sounds about right. [23:00]
Duffer1 mircea mining doge :P [23:00]
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KRS|Gotyawallet lmao [23:02]
KRS|Gotyawallet such fun [23:02]
kakobrekla theres 3 crypto coin threads on some local tech forum [23:02]
Duffer1 apparently the lulz market space is profitable >.< [23:02]
kakobrekla bitcoin, litecoin and yes, dogecoin [23:02]
KRS|Gotyawallet i should prolly buy some doge everyones talking abou tit [23:03]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] [PAID] 3.85235844 BTC to 333`249 shares, 1156 satoshi per share [23:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00090181 = 11.5432 BTC [-] [23:03]
Duffer1 there's a reddit thread about some guy buying coffee with doge [23:04]
Duffer1 free coffee ftw [23:04]
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benkay so tapering is a go for the states [23:05]
mircea_popescu benkay i saw that. incredible huh [23:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 8700 @ 0.00012 = 1.044 BTC [+] [23:08]
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ThickAsThieves mp when did you last do withdrawals? [23:09]
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KRS|Gotyawallet wtf someone bought ~12 BTC worth DOGE Coin: BTC 11.95468560 7969790.39827178 [23:11]
assbot 123! [23:11]
Duffer1 amazing company! [23:11]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [23:11]
KRS|Gotyawallet such profits [23:11]
Duffer1 *highfive assbot [23:11]
ThickAsThieves much amazing [23:11]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [23:11]
ThickAsThieves i dont even know this meme [23:11]
ThickAsThieves havent bothered looking into it [23:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 85 @ 0.00279899 = 0.2379 BTC [-] [23:11]
the20year2 i wonder if the buyer is a guy i know :D [23:11]
Duffer1 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doge [23:12]
ozbot Doge | Know Your Meme [23:12]
ThickAsThieves will not click [23:12]
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Duffer1 :P [23:13]
pankkake http://coinmarketcap.com/ $10M now, #8 [23:13]
ozbot Crypto-Currency Market Capitalizations | Bitcoin Litecoin Peercoin Namecoin Quark ProtoShares WorldC [23:13]
ThickAsThieves maybe 1 person can pull a mil out [23:13]
benkay doge > litecoin by the end of q1 2014 [23:18]
benkay mktcap [23:18]
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benkay ;) [23:18]
pankkake http://bitbet.us/bet/621/any-altcoin-will-surpass-litecoin-in-market-capitalization/?ref=1Eck6cgGzEb9N42CFhcsCBQhZQStoJbHRK decent odds [23:19]
ozbot BitBet - Any altcoin will surpass Litecoin in market capitalization [23:19]
Duffer1 interesting [23:20]
kakobreklaaa http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t9buu/sky_broadband_has_now_decided_bitcoin_related/ [23:21]
Duffer1 vpn, the only way to travel [23:22]
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pankkake wow, UK. what haven't they censored yet? [23:23]
Duffer1 i wonder what service Ciphermine is using... [23:24]
ThickAsThieves it's just some kids mom [23:25]
ThickAsThieves blocking websites [23:25]
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pankkake they have an "optionnal" filter that is enabled by default, right? [23:25]
pankkake until it's not optionnal anymore [23:25]
ThickAsThieves dunno [23:25]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.05010001 = 0.2505 BTC [+] [23:28]
mircea_popescu jesus [23:28]
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the20year2 ? [23:29]
mircea_popescu tho in fairness, it's more likely redditard overreacting and entry level dub speaking out of the three ring binder [23:30]
mircea_popescu than actually anything as meaningfully nefarious as the post implies. [23:30]
Duffer1 probably.. but still, it is Sky [23:30]
KRS|Gotyawallet yo yo yo i want to short doge coin on bfx yo [23:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 30 @ 0.05010001 = 1.503 BTC [+] [23:31]
pankkake I want to short everything [23:31]
pankkake safest way to get rich [23:31]
the20year2 lol [23:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.0228 = 0.228 BTC [-] [23:33]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 12500 @ 0.00012 = 1.5 BTC [+] [23:34]
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ThickAsThieves shortest way to go short is kill yourself [23:37]
ThickAsThieves such profit [23:37]
mircea_popescu kill yourself = going 7 feet long underground [23:38]
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mircea_popescu no good [23:38]
pankkake isn't it 6? [23:39]
mircea_popescu maybe your ground isn't as deep in france ? [23:39]
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pankkake well, "six feet under" is widely used [23:41]
mircea_popescu :p [23:42]
ThickAsThieves maybe coffin starts at 6ft, person lies at 7ft [23:44]
ThickAsThieves you both win [23:44]
ThickAsThieves but how can we arb the difference? [23:44]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3750 @ 0.00012 = 0.45 BTC [+] [23:46]
mircea_popescu lol [23:46]
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ThickAsThieves makes me recall your text on unused vagina mileage [23:48]
jcpham one-owner or multi-owner [23:48]
jcpham check the carfax [23:49]
mircea_popescu lol [23:49]
Duffer1 that sounds like something i need to read [23:49]
ThickAsThieves vagfax.cum [23:49]
ThickAsThieves I'm surprised there arent more sexperience database websites [23:50]
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ThickAsThieves http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/19/5183356/how-to-steal-bitcoin-in-three-easy-steps [23:57]
ozbot How to steal Bitcoin in three easy steps | The Verge [23:57]
mircea_popescu so is the verge going to be paying its staff on bitcoin, [23:57]
mircea_popescu or did they just accidentally prove they publish crap ? [23:57]
ThickAsThieves they do some stuff really well [23:58]
ThickAsThieves but yknow how these things go [23:58]
ThickAsThieves after a year or two its all ads and bullshit [23:59]
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ThickAsThieves http://blog.bittorrent.com/2013/12/19/update-on-bittorrent-chat/ [23:59]
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