Forum logs for 16 May 2012
Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
| * | Now talking on #bitcoin-otc-eu | [02:28] |
| * | Topic for #bitcoin-otc-eu is: Eurozone #bitcoin-otc || http://bitcoin-otc.com || Include hash tag #eu in order notes to group -eu orders. || View all tagged -eu orders here: http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?notes=%23eu || Exchange rates: !bc,convert CURRENCYCODE || GET BTC WITH ukash/paysafecard ... /msg neliskybot help || options-> http://polimedia.us/btc || bitcoin hosting -> http://bitvps.com/ | [02:28] |
| * | Topic for #bitcoin-otc-eu set by kakobrekla!~T42@89-212-41-49.static.t-2.net at Fri Apr 20 21:40:27 2012 | [02:28] |
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| MBS | anyone need some ddr3, have a theater that takes fandango near them, or want a $10 old navy gift card | [04:48] |
| ronald | ;;sell 30 btc at 3.1 GBP | [04:49] |
| gribble | Order id 8066 created. | [04:49] |
| mircea_popescu | o hey mbs you still do gc's ? | [04:53] |
| mircea_popescu | or do i have the wrong guy ? | [04:53] |
| MBS | yeah i do gcs | [04:53] |
| MBS | what you need a card for? | [04:53] |
| mircea_popescu | mk, somebody was asking for it coupladays agio and i couldn't for the life of me remember who did it | [04:54] |
| mircea_popescu | then i saw your name and i was all... shit. mbs. | [04:54] |
| MBS | LOL | [04:54] |
| mircea_popescu | sorry... i guess :p | [04:54] |
| MBS | i do any gift card i can do online pretty much | [04:54] |
| mircea_popescu | yeah, i remember nao. | [04:54] |
| MBS | anyone have a theater with fandango and either want to see Snow White and the Huntsman, Battleship, or The Bourne Legacy , or want a $10 gift card? | [04:56] |
| MBS | wait woops, this is otc-eu XD | [04:57] |
| rawrmage | lol | [05:03] |
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| ronald | anyone wanna buy cheap bitcoin (£3) for PP UK or cash? | [05:20] |
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| smickles | jesus fuck | [05:50] |
| smickles | so, imagine you are a vps provider and a customer askes about the "processing power" of one of your offerings because they can only find information about the amount of disk space, memory and 'bandwidth'. How do you respond? | [05:52] |
| smickles | with specs on disk space, memory, and bandwith. Of Course. | [05:53] |
| rawrmage | no specs on cpu? | [05:53] |
| smickles | true story | [05:53] |
| smickles | they said that the cpu was dependant on the aforementioned specs | [05:54] |
| rawrmage | wat | [05:54] |
| smickles | yeah | [05:54] |
| rawrmage | they seem like the type of person who tells you they have 200 GB of ram and a Pentium hard drive | [05:54] |
| smickles | I responded with a "short" lecture on the function of a cpu | [05:55] |
| smickles | All I really want to know is if what I'm doing on the vps is pushing it too hard or if I'm not getting what I'm paying for | [05:56] |
| smickles | I guess I'm not paying for a cpu | [05:56] |
| rawrmage | is that a quote? ._. | [05:56] |
| smickles | is what a quote? | [05:56] |
| rawrmage | your last two lines | [05:57] |
| smickles | oh lol, no, I guess i'm witty | [05:57] |
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| smickles | naw, i'm not witty b/c the responce to your question should have been, "only if you quote me" | [05:58] |
| rawrmage | lol | [05:58] |
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| mircea_popescu | rawrmage : Bidet is a French word for pony (and in Old French, bider meant to trot) | [08:00] |
| mircea_popescu | http://www.cnbc.com/id/47428134 bank runs in greece. | [08:15] |
| mcorlett | mod6: Retaliatory is how we roll around here! | [08:25] |
| mod6 | wow. guess i missed all that stuff. | [08:45] |
| mod6 | I think that they are also worried that when the run started in greece, that it would spill over to italy and spain as well. | [08:49] |
| mircea_popescu | and ireland. | [09:25] |
| mod6 | oh yah. hmm, crazy. | [09:28] |
| mod6 | never thought i'd see modern day runs on banks... | [09:28] |
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| mircea_popescu | i dont think those will ever go away. | [09:29] |
| mod6 | yea def. not... at least for us over here in the us, we haven't seen anything like that since probably 1929-1931'ish | [09:32] |
| MBS | hurry and nuke greece | [09:32] |
| mircea_popescu | there were bank runs in the 80s and 90s | [09:36] |
| mircea_popescu | both in the us and uk. | [09:36] |
| mod6 | o rly?! | [09:36] |
| mod6 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run | [09:37] |
| mod6 | ^^ that does point to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_Loan_Crisis | [09:37] |
| mod6 | which i must now read... | [09:37] |
| mircea_popescu | :p | [09:38] |
| mod6 | <3 wikipedia | [09:39] |
| mod6 | ho ho! Midwest Federal | [09:40] |
| mod6 | I remember that now. | [09:40] |
| mod6 | wow, little trip down amnesia lane before i retire for the evening. | [09:41] |
| mod6 | :) | [09:41] |
| mod6 | night guys. | [09:41] |
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| amiga4000 | !bc,convert eur | [10:15] |
| gribble | 1 BTC = 5.05979 U.S. dollars = 3.97657183 Euros | [10:15] |
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| mircea_popescu | http://www.nasdaq.com/article/ecb-cuts-back-liquidity-support-for-greek-banks--report-20120516-00051 | [14:05] |
| mircea_popescu | greece is going down it seems | [14:05] |
| Mqrius | mircea_popescu: I've noticed in the EUR/USD rate. It was 0.75 a few weeks ago. 0.781 yesterday. 0.786 today. | [14:06] |
| mircea_popescu | yeah | [14:07] |
| mircea_popescu | will go over .8 before it goes under .7 as they say. | [14:07] |
| Mqrius | I'm fine with it going higher. Most of my wealth is in Bitcoin, which seems more locked to USD than to EUR | [14:08] |
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| mcorlett | I don't mind, either. | [14:21] |
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| MTGO | WTS MTGO Tickets ! | [15:15] |
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| BTCNaAB | 'Lo everyone. | [16:57] |
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| mcorlett | guruvan is fighting for his Bitcoinica monies! | [17:47] |
| mircea_popescu | is he ? | [17:48] |
| mcorlett | mircea_popescu: You wouldn't know. | [17:49] |
| mircea_popescu | apparently not. do tell. | [17:49] |
| mcorlett | You wouldn't understand. | [17:49] |
| mircea_popescu | nevertheless. | [17:50] |
| mcorlett | Fine. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81045.msg903440#msg903440 | [17:51] |
| mircea_popescu | eh, im not reading the forum. | [17:52] |
| mircea_popescu | i'd rather read the sun | [17:52] |
| mcorlett | It's too advanced for you, I know. | [17:52] |
| mcorlett | You told me to show you "nevertheless". | [17:53] |
| mircea_popescu | yeah. you were right, i was wrong. | [17:54] |
| mcorlett | Now you're just giving it to me without putting up a fight. | [17:54] |
| mircea_popescu | why would i put up a fight ? i like giving it to you :D | [17:56] |
| mcorlett | ಠ_ಠ | [17:56] |
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| guruvan | nah. I'm just pissed that they're not really doing shit. I'm just bitching about it | [18:07] |
| mircea_popescu | if only you had your dough on mpex instead :D | [18:08] |
| guruvan | and compared to others, I don't have shit in there | [18:08] |
| mcorlett | Well, trolling just to troll works as well. "Because Bitcoin." | [18:08] |
| guruvan | mircea_popescu: no joke bro. that was on the agenda this week as I made yet another reduction in the position I had at bitcoinica | [18:08] |
| mircea_popescu | the entire thing is so bizzare to be honest | [18:11] |
| guruvan | dude, it's a scam | [18:11] |
| mircea_popescu | yes, but | [18:11] |
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| mircea_popescu | a very weirdly run thing at any rate. | [18:11] |
| guruvan | that, and tbh, the whole security event looked staged to me. I seriously suspect they've been trading w/ customer funds, and have had a hedge go bad. But, wtf do I know | [18:13] |
| mircea_popescu | anyway, these are not for us to understand. | [18:13] |
| mcorlett | YouTube comments never fail to disappoint: "My hot friend Megan wants one, so if everyone goes and watches my worthless youtube videos I might make enough money from advertisement partnering to buy her one and then I might get a BJ. Please thumbs up." | [18:13] |
| mircea_popescu | we are but eight score people with five hundred eyars worth of actual trading experience among us, can we really grasp the wisdom of 17 yo chinese kids and other teenagers ? | [18:13] |
| guruvan | lol. I'm not believing the 17yo pawn in this game has squat to do with the real shady shit going on | [18:14] |
| mircea_popescu | even so | [18:14] |
| mircea_popescu | the amir taaki guy is what, 25 ? | [18:14] |
| mircea_popescu | and in general, the average age of all involved is about grad school. | [18:15] |
| mcorlett | I don't think the Bitcoin Consultancy has any idea what they've gotten themselves into. | [18:15] |
| guruvan | hmm...looks young...dunno....I like my security gurus to be older than me :D I'm not young either | [18:15] |
| guruvan | mcorlett: no, financiall, technically, and legally | [18:15] |
| mircea_popescu | mcorlett i originally thought they're making a strategic aquisition to have something against options. | [18:15] |
| mircea_popescu | but by now i have no ideea and i've kinda quit following. | [18:15] |
| draco49 | wassup all | [18:15] |
| mircea_popescu | draco49 http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/133717946432.gif | [18:16] |
| mcorlett | Woop woop, draco's back (again). | [18:16] |
| draco49 | I've been back... just a little pre-occupied. | [18:16] |
| guruvan | it's so unclean now, each side of the bitcoinica table seems to have a slightly different story | [18:16] |
| mcorlett | mircea_popescu: Stoya? | [18:16] |
| draco49 | mircea_popescu, I love how you have smut pics at the ready. | [18:16] |
| guruvan | I've went ahead and filed a complaint w/ the FMA in NZ | [18:16] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan : by now the cost to untangle it seems to exceed its value, so its in my eyes at forget about it stage | [18:16] |
| mircea_popescu | mcorlett i think so. draco49 i live to serve. | [18:17] |
| guruvan | I don't have even one BTC in my bitcoinica acct - just USD | [18:17] |
| mircea_popescu | btw, let me drop a bomb : http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/pisg.output/trilema.stats-week.html | [18:17] |
| draco49 | How hard has this latest wallet theft hit bitcoinica? | [18:17] |
| mircea_popescu | those 3 days are really ~28 hours or so | [18:17] |
| guruvan | yep - I think bitcoinica is a dead issue, and it's just amatter of getting what's left of customer funds distributed | [18:17] |
| mircea_popescu | draco49 its offline iirc ? | [18:17] |
| guruvan | draco49: they're done for | [18:18] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan and to think i was considering listing them. | [18:18] |
| guruvan | it looks like months before reopening, and they probably won't exist anymore by then | [18:18] |
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| guruvan | mircea_popescu: thank god you're smarted than that. Plz don't list intersango or bitcoin consultancy! | [18:18] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan well no this was before the intersango deal | [18:18] |
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| mircea_popescu | we were sorta talking. | [18:19] |
| mircea_popescu | anyway. | [18:19] |
| draco49 | That sucks. Any idea how this one happened? | [18:19] |
| mircea_popescu | draco49 we were just saying it'd likely cost more to find out than what bitcoinica's worth | [18:19] |
| mcorlett | mircea_popescu: Da, it's Stoya. Here's more: http://i.imgur.com/Cr3bQ.gif http://i.imgur.com/rwC7i.gif http://i.imgur.com/PoiCG.gif | [18:19] |
| guruvan | um --- the hotwallet hadn't moved since the last fucking theft apparently? | [18:19] |
| mcorlett | (I also live to serve.) | [18:19] |
| draco49 | Zhou Tong!!!! | [18:19] |
| mircea_popescu | she's a good fuck and a geek too. | [18:20] |
| guruvan | dude, how did it happen? they lost control of a mail server and had a root passwd reset | [18:20] |
| guruvan | idiots | [18:20] |
| mod6 | srsly. | [18:20] |
| draco49 | I almost wonder if Bitcoinica was really a CIA front to discredit bitcoin from within... | [18:20] |
| mircea_popescu | lol if it was it failed. | [18:20] |
| guruvan | i mean, come the fuck on, what does it take to have BASIC USER quality security followed at a financial institution. | [18:21] |
| guruvan | Compare this to real banks that have RETINA scans to move money like that | [18:21] |
| draco49 | The hijinx and tomfoolery that has gone on with them is shady as hell | [18:21] |
| * | BTC_Bear|hbrntng is now known as BTC_Bear | [18:21] |
| mod6 | btc has only been on the radar for about a year, more time will yield better services and practices. | [18:22] |
| guruvan | lol CIA front. I might believe that of the "core bitcoin developers" who seem to be at the forefront of each incident | [18:22] |
| draco49 | The media that's bothering to cover it is, of course, using it as an opportunity to say that bitcoin is insecure and make other disingenuous remarks. | [18:22] |
| guruvan | but I'd need a shiny new tinfoil hat to believe it | [18:22] |
| mircea_popescu | draco49 bitcoin IS insecure | [18:22] |
| draco49 | The FBI did just put out that official report... | [18:22] |
| mircea_popescu | in the sense of "Secure" media imagines people expect. | [18:22] |
| mircea_popescu | there;'s absolutely no security outside of you being secure. | [18:23] |
| draco49 | Bitcoin, itself, is not insecure. Every theft i've heard about has been the result of human error. | [18:23] |
| draco49 | mircea_popescu, I didn't mean it in a philosophical sense... | [18:23] |
| mircea_popescu | point being, people thing "secure" = the police will keep peoplefrom stealing my money. | [18:23] |
| mircea_popescu | whereas secure actually means... secure. | [18:23] |
| guruvan | but try to get a monron in the press to actually EVEN SPELL "Bitcoinia" right. ...goddamn, the fool at forbes even had a QUOTE with the name spelled right in his post | [18:24] |
| guruvan | putz | [18:24] |
| draco49 | I'm just saying that, as far as I know, bitcoin thefts have never been attributed to security flaws within the system. | [18:24] |
| guruvan | if a guy can't spell the name of a business correctly when it's right in front of him, how is he going to get facts he have to check correct? | [18:24] |
| mircea_popescu | draco49 well sure, in that sense it's absolutely secure. | [18:25] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan media is done by people making minimum wage. | [18:25] |
| guruvan | draco49: no they've been flaws that would lose CC numbers, medical data, or any other FILES | [18:25] |
| mcorlett | Funny, Players of World of Warcraft use two-factor authentication tokens just to log in and play their game, but a regular sniffable email is all it takes to grab $87,000 in bitcoins. | [18:25] |
| mircea_popescu | mcorlett and let me point out that i ran mpoe on emails for MONTHS | [18:26] |
| mircea_popescu | and yet... never...had...a...problem. | [18:26] |
| guruvan | gee - and which technical consultants are the ones who have suffered the loss of their email security? Oh yah...the "best ones" the one everyone trusts so much around here. I hope people actually learn something | [18:26] |
| guruvan | maybe you know how to use email correctly? :) | [18:27] |
| guruvan | it's a complex tool, I know | [18:27] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan it is possible, | [18:27] |
| mircea_popescu | nevertheless some well meaning bystanders were grilling me at some point | [18:27] |
| draco49 | If your core business involves the need to have a constantly active hot wallet, they should have implemented appropriate security measures and protocols. Their inability to successfully secure a hot wallet is disgraceful. | [18:28] |
| guruvan | ya. it is possible. I've run one or two mail servers in my day too. (I don't any more, what a PITA!!) | [18:28] |
| guruvan | draco49: their inability to have someone AWAKE and ONLINE 24/7 is disgraceful | [18:28] |
| draco49 | ++ | [18:28] |
| guruvan | shall I share some emails I traded with zhoutong about "Wake up and restart your frigging bitcoind" ? ?!! | [18:29] |
| guruvan | and him bitching that they can't be bothered to help people during the day on saturday | [18:29] |
| draco49 | I wonder if Zhou Tong is going to be cast out into the Mongolian desert for disgracing his family and country... | [18:29] |
| mircea_popescu | lmao y the hate ? | [18:29] |
| guruvan | and how much trouble it is to communicate with users, especially after they should already see their proble is fixed? | [18:29] |
| mircea_popescu | back when i was 17 i broke shit too | [18:29] |
| mircea_popescu | ofcourse, the adults around me didn't give me any keys to ferraris | [18:30] |
| mircea_popescu | but IF THE HAD, | [18:30] |
| mircea_popescu | i would have crashed the car. | [18:30] |
| guruvan | and your dad woulda been pissed | [18:30] |
| guruvan | and taken away the keys to the pantera | [18:30] |
| mircea_popescu | mmmkay... | [18:30] |
| mircea_popescu | i'd still have been the cool kid :D | [18:30] |
| guruvan | hellz yea! | [18:31] |
| guruvan | (and while I was upset with zhoutong about the lack of support - I sure trust that guy more than the current structure at bitcoinica) | [18:31] |
| draco49 | When you operate an exchange with as much cash flow as he had, age is irrelevant. If he had the ability to put together what he did, he should have been smart enough to hire some people who knew how to run a business. | [18:31] |
| guruvan | way more | [18:31] |
| mcorlett | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AYlGHHnCj8 | [18:32] |
| guruvan | ++ draco49 that's why I was upset that I had to tell him that he needed to restart his server | [18:32] |
| mod6 | draco49: thats why all this ineptitude is super fishy to me. | [18:32] |
| guruvan | super fishy | [18:32] |
| draco49 | that's why i'm glad I never put one coin or dollar through his exchange | [18:32] |
| mircea_popescu | mod6 then again there's that adage about looking for explanations no further if stupidity can explain it. | [18:32] |
| draco49 | yeah, but twice?? | [18:32] |
| guruvan | I haven't got to where stupidity explains this one | [18:32] |
| mod6 | mircea_popescu: heheh | [18:33] |
| guruvan | I've been suggesting and suspecting for several weeks that slow w/d at bitcoinica is due to a lack of reserves | [18:33] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan what do you figure the cui bono is here ? | [18:33] |
| mircea_popescu | i mean, they made off like bandits with 18k bitcoins ? | [18:33] |
| draco49 | And I thought Intersango was taking over the security and business operations... | [18:33] |
| guruvan | no | [18:33] |
| mod6 | the fact that they give no value, its just a swap shop was scray. | [18:33] |
| mod6 | *scary | [18:33] |
| guruvan | 18K is for show | [18:33] |
| mircea_popescu | um | [18:33] |
| guruvan | I'm suggesting they've lost a lot more trading customer money | [18:33] |
| mircea_popescu | mod6 i thought it was a share swap and thought nothing of it. | [18:34] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan i dont imagine rthey really had much more. | [18:34] |
| draco49 | Didn't they put out a press release saying that the Intersango people were taking over management of the exchange, or something to that effect? | [18:34] |
| mircea_popescu | yes. | [18:34] |
| guruvan | I have no proof, and zt has definitely denied it, but the company's actions are very consistent with wall street institutions that failed for the same reason | [18:34] |
| mod6 | well, i mean, if zt does really well, and liq's positions, good for him. but if I do really well, or lots of people do, I didn't think he would be able to cover. | [18:35] |
| guruvan | I mean trading with the customer deposits | [18:35] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan my intels say they didn't likely have much more than that. | [18:35] |
| draco49 | p2p exchanges are going to be the way to combat this shit | [18:35] |
| mircea_popescu | obviously everything is possible (tm) but still. | [18:35] |
| guruvan | pathetic mircea_popescu - unbeliveable they were operating like that | [18:35] |
| guruvan | that's downright criminal | [18:35] |
| mircea_popescu | well they had a 43k loss not so far ago | [18:35] |
| mircea_popescu | which they ate. how much capital do you think it hat to begin with. | [18:36] |
| guruvan | yeah - and how much USD do they have on deposit that wasn't lost | [18:36] |
| guruvan | that they're not returning | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu | prolly about the same, give or take, | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu | hard to tell, that. | [18:36] |
| guruvan | it is....but FWIW, I was long and didn't have any BTC in my account | [18:37] |
| mod6 | well, thats good :) | [18:37] |
| mircea_popescu | still, getting back to the cui bono | [18:37] |
| mircea_popescu | it makes no sense to unwind this way | [18:37] |
| mircea_popescu | so i think stupidity is a strong theoretical contender. | [18:37] |
| mod6 | or fraud. | [18:38] |
| guruvan | there's no lack of that in this situation. that's for sure. I still think there's more than one criminal involved, and I suspect one is an insider | [18:38] |
| mod6 | there is no way that these guys are that stupid 2x in 4 months. | [18:38] |
| guruvan | hard to say though | [18:38] |
| guruvan | mod6: I 100% agree | [18:39] |
| mircea_popescu | mod6 why not ? | [18:39] |
| mircea_popescu | explain this to me. | [18:39] |
| mircea_popescu | of all the girls that get pregnant by accident, | [18:39] |
| mircea_popescu | most get it more than once. | [18:39] |
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| mircea_popescu | what'd you expect ? | [18:39] |
| mircea_popescu | they suddenly became enlightened ? | [18:39] |
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| mod6 | hmm. no spacific reason I can articulate. Just a gut feeling, and a lot of reading of events, etc. | [18:40] |
| mircea_popescu | ya, maybe so. | [18:41] |
| mircea_popescu | im just saying... there's a reason fraudsters pay for victims addresses. | [18:41] |
| mod6 | shit doesn't add up exactly. BUT, it could just be a really poorly run orginization with no accountability. | [18:41] |
| guruvan | for a reason, is usually why an organization is run like that - at least when there's leverage and trading involved. | [18:42] |
| mod6 | yeah, either way. before MPEx i had concidered doing a lot of trading there. | [18:42] |
| mod6 | and then it got chowned. | [18:42] |
| mircea_popescu | i actually appreciated the guy manning up then | [18:43] |
| mod6 | so i never looked at it again... i was suprised to see people throwing there btc back in there as soon as it was back. | [18:43] |
| mod6 | s/there/their/ | [18:43] |
| guruvan | me too! I'd still trust bitcoinica if ZT owned it | [18:43] |
| guruvan | I'd still have 17yo kid issues w/ him, but at least I'd feel like I was being treated honestly | [18:43] |
| guruvan | I don't think that at all now | [18:44] |
| guruvan | I see different members of the bitcoinica team pointing fingers at each other | [18:44] |
| mod6 | well, see, i don't mind that he's 17. what bothers me is that he seems to want to go to college. | [18:44] |
| mircea_popescu | meanwhile, it's darn fucking hard to find real businesses on btc. | [18:44] |
| guruvan | that's a huge red flag | [18:44] |
| mircea_popescu | i mean... if bitcoinica blows, srsly, waht can you buy sharesi n ? | [18:44] |
| guruvan | Diablo Mining Company? :D | [18:44] |
| guruvan | 4CHAN | [18:45] |
| mircea_popescu | no, srsly ;/ | [18:45] |
| guruvan | oh..................... | [18:45] |
| mircea_popescu | don't laugh, for w/o financials we really don't have a chance as a currency. | [18:45] |
| guruvan | .... | [18:45] |
| mircea_popescu | tis a matter of great panda sadness. | [18:45] |
| guruvan | I'm not laughing. I've got a fair amount sunk into bitcoin, and I do not wish to be a sad panda | [18:46] |
| guruvan | one thing I've been thinking would be a good idea | [18:46] |
| mircea_popescu | so... myea. working on it but it's real tough going. | [18:46] |
| guruvan | is some kind of insurance cartel to insure exchanges/ securities dealers, etc | [18:47] |
| mircea_popescu | copumpkin was trying to get something like that going | [18:47] |
| mircea_popescu | we didn't manage to find an actual way to do cds | [18:47] |
| mod6 | yeah mircea_popescu, people like you and smickles add a layer of transparency to btc companies. with out this, stocks can't be a legitiment possibility. | [18:47] |
| guruvan | no - I don't mean CDS | [18:47] |
| mircea_popescu | mod6 worked very deliberately at that, too. it's just... you can't have the banking side and the accounting side w/o the actual companies | [18:48] |
| mircea_popescu | we're just here threading water. | [18:48] |
| guruvan | I mean insure against malpractice, or losing the customer funds etc | [18:48] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan suppose guy insures, then steals the funds. | [18:48] |
| mircea_popescu | he just made 2x. | [18:48] |
| guruvan | see what a great plan I made? We r rich then? | [18:48] |
| guruvan | hmm | [18:48] |
| mircea_popescu | problem is you can't verify identity, you don't really know who pays you. | [18:49] |
| guruvan | I do think that's part of the point of making it a cartel | [18:49] |
| mircea_popescu | so you could be selling default protection to the party going to default. | [18:49] |
| mircea_popescu | you can be a cartel, helps nothing. | [18:49] |
| guruvan | i.e. LLoyd's of London - back in the early days of insuring cargo ships | [18:49] |
| mircea_popescu | there was a definite way to ascertain who bought insurance and who got paid. | [18:49] |
| guruvan | mmm yeah. | [18:50] |
| mircea_popescu | here the shipowner can burn the ship and you'll neverk now you paid them | [18:50] |
| guruvan | it must be a solvable problem, somehow | [18:50] |
| mircea_popescu | tis not. | [18:50] |
| mircea_popescu | bitcoin has many advantages | [18:50] |
| mircea_popescu | but boy does it fuck with finance. | [18:50] |
| mircea_popescu | boy o boy. | [18:50] |
| guruvan | lol | [18:50] |
| guruvan | yeah | [18:50] |
| mircea_popescu | half of them are twisted into contorted half-brothers of themselves spawned in hell | [18:51] |
| mircea_popescu | like my bonds for instance | [18:51] |
| mircea_popescu | and some simply can't exist | [18:51] |
| mircea_popescu | we're basically trying to paint houses on a torus with tools used to build houses in space or something | [18:52] |
| mod6 | hmm. | [18:58] |
| mcorlett | .seen rg | [19:03] |
| mircea_popescu | rg is not seen, rg is felt. | [19:04] |
| mod6 | he's in uk atm | [19:05] |
| mod6 | mircea_popescu: are commodities something to be concidered adding to MPEx? similar to say, CBOE? | [19:10] |
| mod6 | but for BTC :) | [19:10] |
| mircea_popescu | trying to. | [19:11] |
| guruvan | oil futures! :D | [19:11] |
| mod6 | like, is there a way to procure some gold/silver and have it listed? | [19:11] |
| mircea_popescu | also trying to | [19:11] |
| guruvan | and Pork Bellies! | [19:11] |
| mod6 | ok... sweet!! | [19:11] |
| mircea_popescu | insanely difficult to do | [19:11] |
| mircea_popescu | seeing how the a-hole markets are making traders sign that they won't do specifically this. | [19:11] |
| mod6 | ah. :| | [19:11] |
| mod6 | if you build it, they will cum | [19:13] |
| guruvan | couldn't you become a broker and do it? that might be insanely difficult, especially to take BTC for deposit | [19:14] |
| mircea_popescu | guruvan i want actual delivery. | [19:14] |
| mircea_popescu | cushing, ok oil. | [19:14] |
| guruvan | oic | [19:14] |
| mircea_popescu | and i want someone with experience to mm it. | [19:14] |
| mircea_popescu | also in talks for metals etc. | [19:14] |
| mod6 | ! | [19:15] |
| mircea_popescu | i'm working on it, but its damned difficult to do. | [19:15] |
| mircea_popescu | and incidentally, if i manage to get oil with delivery the btc/usd price goes to 100. | [19:15] |
| guruvan | ya - I think that's probably a good bet | [19:15] |
| mircea_popescu | kinda shoot myself in the foot on options :D | [19:15] |
| guruvan | lol | [19:16] |
| mod6 | very cool stuff, i can see how this get complicated in a hurry. | [19:17] |
| mod6 | :) | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu | anyway, we need to put some utility in bitcoin too, as in, why'd i buy bitcoisn ? | [19:18] |
| mircea_popescu | well to buy oil with them sucka. | [19:18] |
| mircea_popescu | but that's still a ways away i wager. for now i'd most like some actual corps. | [19:18] |
| mod6 | say like IBM securities? | [19:18] |
| mod6 | or GOOG or pick a name....? | [19:19] |
| mircea_popescu | nana | [19:19] |
| mircea_popescu | like a big company that does something useful in bitcoins | [19:19] |
| mod6 | just BTC ones. | [19:19] |
| mircea_popescu | heck, i'd love to list mtgox. | [19:19] |
| guruvan | real bitcoin startups, with real financing? | [19:19] |
| mod6 | mmm i was gonna say, have you talked to Tuxedo Guy? | [19:19] |
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| mircea_popescu | a while back | [19:19] |
| mircea_popescu | he's not so into it. | [19:19] |
| guruvan | I'd buy stock in gox, even if I wouldn't put my money there :D | [19:19] |
| mircea_popescu | i do have some stuff on the plate, but all these take time. | [19:20] |
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| mircea_popescu | guruvan they're not really wanting to open teh books. | [19:20] |
| mod6 | sure. good deal :) | [19:20] |
| mod6 | more will come this year anyway. | [19:20] |
| guruvan | why doesn't that surprise me? | [19:20] |
| mod6 | noone /wants/ to open their books. | [19:21] |
| mod6 | it's probably hard too, with the nature of the exchange. who knows if they even have "books" | [19:22] |
| bruzum | i want | [19:22] |
| bruzum | what page do you me to read? | [19:22] |
| bruzum | :) | [19:22] |
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| mircea_popescu | mod6 i wanted to open mpoe books. | [19:24] |
| mod6 | well, of course :) you can raise money that way through the sale of stock. | [19:24] |
| mod6 | if you're private, if you have good revenue streams, you may not care about sharing with the general public. and over here, you open ur self up to tons of regulatory bullshit. | [19:25] |
| mircea_popescu | i mostly did it for the model. | [19:26] |
| mircea_popescu | im not sure anyoen even published statements before i did, tbh. | [19:26] |
| mod6 | well, and BTC is a different story. and you have a great model in BTC space that shows it can work. | [19:26] |
| mircea_popescu | people'd com,e wioth "this 3 days we made 1.36 btc, here's dividends" bs. | [19:26] |
| mod6 | with transparency and good faith/trust etc. | [19:26] |
| mircea_popescu | actually yea, wot was/is key ingredient there | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu | there's no btc finance w/o wot. | [19:27] |
| mod6 | *nod* | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu | a splendid ideea too, rarely do i like technology so much | [19:27] |
| mod6 | :D | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu | and i recall the first time i joined i was pretty pissed at it lol | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu | vragnaroda had to talk me through it. | [19:28] |
| mod6 | ha. well, glad he did. | [19:28] |
| mcorlett | Mircea? Mad? Go figure! | [19:28] |
| mcorlett | s/Mad/Pissed | [19:28] |
| mod6 | vodka gimlet | [19:29] |
| mircea_popescu | what, im not calm ? ARE YOU SAYING I LOSE MY COOL YOU PATHETIC PIECE OF SHIT YOU!!! IS THAT IT! | [19:29] |
| * | mod6 throws up a block for mcorlett | [19:30] |
| mircea_popescu | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_ff46b58Hk | [19:30] |
| mod6 | haha. | [19:30] |
| * | mod6 watches | [19:30] |
| * | mcorlett too | [19:31] |
| mod6 | one of the best movies evar | [19:33] |
| mircea_popescu | mhm | [19:33] |
| mod6 | GIVE JIMMY HIS MONEY | [19:33] |
| mod6 | hahaha | [19:33] |
| mod6 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G6yVIHvsIE | [19:34] |
| mod6 | 1:08 lulz | [19:34] |
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| mircea_popescu | lol | [19:36] |
| mircea_popescu | prolly pesci's best role in that film | [19:36] |
| mircea_popescu | http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/133718574736.jpg | [19:39] |
| mircea_popescu | im guessing she must be a student | [19:39] |
| mircea_popescu | who else keeps notebooks above the friggin stove. | [19:39] |
| mod6 | nice oven mitt | [19:41] |
| mcorlett | They ought to make a transparent version of that oven glove. | [19:42] |
| mod6 | haha, that would have been clever. | [19:43] |
| mircea_popescu | whia | [19:50] |
| mircea_popescu | imagine a transparend wool sheep | [19:50] |
| mod6 | you know, i might have to re-watch raging bull. its been too long. | [19:53] |
| mod6 | great show. | [19:53] |
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| mcorlett | http://i.imgur.com/jDfdt.png | [20:14] |
| mircea_popescu | aha ? | [20:15] |
| mircea_popescu | lol negative wtf | [20:16] |
| mcorlett | :p | [20:16] |
| mircea_popescu | lmao | [20:16] |
| mircea_popescu | this is one for the ages | [20:16] |
| mircea_popescu | keep for grandsons | [20:16] |
| mod6 | :) | [20:17] |
| guruvan | mcorlett: maybe they moved shorting? lol | [20:17] |
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Category: Logs
