Forum logs for 10 Oct 2013

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 53 @ 0.0100021 = 0.5301 BTC [-] [00:02]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 54 @ 0.09661668 = 5.2173 BTC [-] {4} [00:04]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 695 @ 0.00963942 = 6.6994 BTC [-] {18} [00:05]
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kakobrekla Meni Rosenfeld. has a new thing [00:14]
kakobrekla [00:14]
ozbot Bitblu - crypto investment management [00:14]
kakobrekla and ripple guy [00:14]
kakobrekla from [00:15]
pankkake wait they have a job offer for a third "founder and c?o" lol [00:18]
ThickAsThieves hrm [00:18]
mircea_popescu lol good one [00:19]
ThickAsThieves i bet the salary = you get to be a founder! [00:20]
mircea_popescu is that the ceo salary ? [00:20]
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mircea_popescu sometimes it looks like every aluminum siding, vacuum & bible and car salesman is now doing bitcoin. [00:21]
ThickAsThieves you'll get a kick out of the headshots for the vegas conference [00:22]
ThickAsThieves [00:23]
mircea_popescu if they get shot in the head they won't be able to have open casket funerals. [00:23]
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kakobrekla The vision of bitcoin is going to be set at conferences like this. [00:25]
kakobrekla —Alan Safahi of ZipZap tells The Wall Street Journal. [00:25]
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mircea_popescu lmao. jerkoffs will jerkoff. [00:26]
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mircea_popescu also, zipzap = ziggap or zipzap = clueless fuckwits who have no idea history exists ? [00:26]
Scrat circlederp [00:26]
mircea_popescu Scrat dude, the "vision". the vision matters! herpes! [00:26]
jborkl "More bad luck! My power supply just died! I highly recommend not buying this power supply! [00:27]
jborkl Off to the store to hopefully find one that isn't an arm and a leg on such short notice." [00:27]
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jborkl KNC Supernova [00:27]
mircea_popescu supernova. nice name. [00:27]
kakobrekla lool [00:27]
jborkl Ty ty [00:27]
kakobrekla zipzap is this it seems [00:27]
kakobrekla dunno how is it related to btc [00:28]
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mircea_popescu so here it is : [00:28]
mircea_popescu [00:28]
ozbot S.NSA first product - The Cardano pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [00:28]
mircea_popescu also, mpex deposits flushed if anyone was waiting. [00:29]
jcpham if only my internets worked [00:30]
jcpham i could read trilema [00:30]
mircea_popescu well, get a government that's not shutdown [00:30]
mircea_popescu then maybe your internets'd work. [00:31]
Kleeck_ yes, the government runs the internetz [00:32]
mircea_popescu everything, outdoor monuments, the internets, rain... [00:33]
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Kleeck_ haha [00:33]
mircea_popescu best & biggest government in teh whole world! real power rangers those people. [00:33]
Kleeck_ the fuckin Ocean [00:33]
Kleeck_ The USG is spending more money trying to prove that the "shutdown" is a big deal. [00:34]
mircea_popescu pls to not suggest the govt doth not help and doth not matter, [00:34]
mircea_popescu or it's the booby hatch for you. [00:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4258 @ 0.00084941 = 3.6168 BTC [-] {3} [00:35]
Kleeck_ I wasn't suggesting that at all. [00:35]
Kleeck_ But the booby hatch sounds nice. [00:35]
mircea_popescu that's because you don't know what a boobie is. [00:35]
Kleeck_ I... I thought I did... [00:35]
mike_c what's the target cost for the cardano? [00:36]
mircea_popescu it's a... bird. [00:36]
midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy- mircea_popescu mius mixdio [00:36]
mircea_popescu mike_c tba :) [00:36]
Kleeck_ Yes, and a breast. [00:36]
Kleeck_ Of, possibly, a female. [00:36]
kakobrekla i miss the option of forcing my own key innit [00:36]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla yup [00:37]
mircea_popescu the 0 1 8 problem. if you can so can someone else. no good. [00:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1500 @ 0.00084933 = 1.274 BTC [-] [00:39]
kakobrekla 0 1 8? [00:39]
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mircea_popescu ;;google zero one infinity [00:40]
gribble Zero one infinity rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Zero One Infinity Rule: ; Zero-One-Infinity Rule - [00:40]
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kakobrekla id live with the fact someone can replace it [00:42]
kakobrekla but not read it [00:42]
mircea_popescu why's your key so great you want to keep it anyway ? i bet you it wasn't gen'd on hardware rngs for instance. [00:43]
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kakobrekla its not that i want to keep it [00:45]
kakobrekla i just want to define it [00:45]
mircea_popescu but whay ? [00:45]
kakobrekla so i can keep it! [00:45]
jborkl he meant defile it [00:46]
pankkake 0 1 ∞ [00:46]
mircea_popescu you mean keep it as in backup it ? [00:46]
Namworld So he can keep using it/store it/transfer it to a replacement device [00:46]
Namworld Assuming he got an offline backup [00:46]
mircea_popescu one problem i see with this directly is that people will keep insecure copies and then go "o noes someone hacked my cardano and stole my key!11" [00:46]
Namworld And keep the Cardano while on the move [00:46]
mircea_popescu i think the better solution is to use a master and sign a cardano for the move. [00:47]
kakobrekla my copy is on paper and on a safe place [00:47]
mircea_popescu sorta use the cardano as a subbie in that context. [00:47]
kakobrekla and i want to keep that backup [00:47]
Namworld What if the master cardano breaks? [00:47]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla well i didn't mean you. i meant people! [00:47]
Namworld You're kind of screwed [00:47]
mircea_popescu Namworld master doesn't have to be a cardano necessarily. [00:47]
Namworld True [00:47]
mircea_popescu it can be, sure, but if you don't trust it you can just use it as a sub to your main key which you keep traditionally. [00:48]
Namworld Well I suppose that could work [00:48]
Namworld Definitly [00:48]
kakobrekla yet you cant use it for mpex if you dont have main key [00:48]
kakobrekla except if you reg a new key [00:48]
mircea_popescu you can as long as you reg it there. [00:48]
kakobrekla which is 'disposable' [00:48]
kakobrekla which sux [00:49]
mircea_popescu hm ? [00:49]
kakobrekla no way to have backup to mpex acc then [00:49]
Namworld If the cardano breaks, you're out of shares and need to pay for a new account. [00:49]
kakobrekla if the device breaks [00:49]
Namworld No backups [00:49]
mircea_popescu well yes, using a device of this type for that purpose seems like you're asking for trouble. [00:51]
mike_c the cardano should backup the private key to the cloud. [00:51]
mike_c (kidding) [00:51]
kakobrekla lol [00:51]
mircea_popescu sorta like carrying cats in your pant pocket [00:51]
mircea_popescu anyway, we'll get a better idea as to how reliable the things are after they've been in the wild a year or two. atm all i can say is they should be pretty reliable. [00:52]
Vexual prp? [00:52]
kakobrekla yeah its a serious device for serious security but its so serious you cant have backups and so its not usable for serious stuff. [00:53]
kakobrekla :p [00:53]
mircea_popescu it's so secret you can't have backups. [00:53]
mircea_popescu this is a frontline itam. you go into enemy territory with it. [00:54]
mike_c still.. a straight up better replacement for securID? [00:54]
midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy- mircea_popescu mius mixdio [00:54]
mircea_popescu mike_c i think so. [00:54]
mircea_popescu also much better scp than scp. [00:54]
mircea_popescu also much better 2fa. [00:54]
Vexual i like the faraday cage bit [00:54]
mircea_popescu in principle you could design your garage door/house door to take a usb stick [00:55]
mircea_popescu and just open them with a purpose cardano. [00:55]
Vexual a thin lead case perhaps, so one can be sure it's in ones pocket [00:55]
mircea_popescu whiuch, even if someome smacks you over the head, can't be cloned [00:55]
mircea_popescu because no backup [00:55]
kakobrekla so they just terminate you on spot [00:55]
kakobrekla without giving you a chance! [00:56]
kakobrekla pft! [00:56]
mircea_popescu carry a bigger stick. [00:56]
mircea_popescu Cardano on a stick! [00:56]
mike_c another question you won't answer yet (even though potential investors would love to know), target release date? [00:57]
Vexual my solar storm has begun [00:57]
mike_c 2013? 14? 15? [00:57]
mike_c well, not 13. [00:57]
midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy- mircea_popescu mius mixdio [00:58]
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mircea_popescu mike_c should be here before xmas, so you can all make nice gifts to peopkle. [00:58]
mike_c no way [00:58]
mike_c wow [00:58]
mircea_popescu yup/ [00:58]
Vexual how much? [00:59]
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mike_c he's not saying yet [00:59]
bitesak Good evening ! will these devices be assembled in Romania? [00:59]
mircea_popescu bitesak they shall be assembled at a secret & undisclosed set of locartions [01:00]
Vexual made in notchina [01:00]
mircea_popescu for teh obvious reasons. [01:00]
jborkl [01:01]
mircea_popescu Vexual nah, it's not oursourced. [01:01]
mircea_popescu we're actually making it. [01:01]
Vexual wise [01:01]
jborkl mircea - you in the pool with those guys [01:01]
mircea_popescu jborkl umm i can't read that stuff, what's it say ? [01:01]
jborkl I am just looking at the picture' [01:02]
mircea_popescu lol. [01:02]
mircea_popescu yeah. im the duck. [01:02]
jborkl I wonder why it is 3 white dudes and one mexican dude mining at a chinese pool? [01:04]
jborkl with martinis [01:05]
jborkl and a rubber ducky [01:05]
Vexual not a mexican, just a rich dude with a tan [01:05]
jborkl that one has the least amount of btc [01:05]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 12 @ 0.0088 = 0.1056 BTC [-] [01:06]
Vexual so it seems [01:07]
jborkl jcpham Jere_Jones Jezzz joesmoe joeykrim jordandotdev jurov [01:08]
mircea_popescu lmao jborkl [01:08]
mircea_popescu the mexican is there to bean flavour the sausage soup they're making. [01:09]
jborkl They are all staring at each other and appear to be wearing lipstick :/ [01:09]
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jborkl ok, who p2pd in the pool [01:10]
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pankkake at least it wasn't a whale taking a dump [01:10]
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bitesak would one be able to order and pay via fiat or is this strictly through bitcoin ? [01:17]
Vexual lol [01:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 601 @ 0.00853068 = 5.1269 BTC [-] {10} [01:18]
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mircea_popescu bitesak bitcoin. [01:20]
bitesak this will help make GPG more accessible and usable [01:21]
mircea_popescu hopefully. [01:22]
mircea_popescu i would think you know, if anyone that groks gpg gives one to their numerous gfs [01:22]
mircea_popescu gpg could take over the world. [01:22]
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bitesak precisely, I was speaking about GPG with my gf and this would be a good christmas gift [01:23]
mircea_popescu yeah cause very easy to use, very hard to fuck anything up. [01:25]
bitesak :) [01:25]
bitesak and thanks to Bitcoin_ [01:26]
jborkl [01:26]
ozbot anyone-hashing-in-the-datacentre-yet [01:26]
jborkl 2 jupiters for 350gh - bam tearing it up [01:27]
mircea_popescu howlong have those been up ? [01:29]
mircea_popescu curious if anyone ran a knc thing for more than a week or so by now [01:29]
Vexual look for smoke signals [01:29]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.94 = 1.88 BTC [+] [01:36]
FabianB mircea_popescu: so this is a simplified and bigger version of ? [01:38]
mircea_popescu as best i can see it has little in common really. [01:39]
mircea_popescu need not go any further than [01:40]
mircea_popescu that thing's a joke, really. [01:40]
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Vexual will the girlfriend christmas package include lingerie, your email and a digital camera? [01:41]
mircea_popescu Vexual we're working on something. [01:41]
Vexual good, i like drama [01:41]
FabianB mircea_popescu: maybe, but there seem to be 4096 versions too, and can handle kakobreklas wish for programmability (which of course decreases security) [01:43]
mircea_popescu which kinda is the point. [01:43]
asciilifeform anybody make one with a zapper? [01:44]
mircea_popescu as best i can see the smartcard is a sort of fun and games project, let's play with smartcards. it doesn't have the critical features such as separation of key from slate. [01:44]
mircea_popescu such as hardware rng, such as the zapper yes, [01:44]
mircea_popescu it's a laundry list. [01:44]
asciilifeform only people I know who include the zapper are, well, classic NSA. and they don't have a retail store. [01:44]
mircea_popescu they do, but they only sell to iran [01:45]
FabianB what's a zapper? [01:46]
Vexual cyanide pill? [01:46]
asciilifeform Vexual: if you were to introduce key importation, the zapper would have to come with cyanide. [01:47]
asciilifeform whereas the answer to the inquisitor's 'where are the other copies' is correctly 'nowhere.' [01:47]
Vexual what is zapper? [01:48]
Vexual rom write? [01:48]
bitesak the ability to destroy the key? [01:48]
asciilifeform bitesak: we have a winner. [01:48]
asciilifeform see 'How does it work ?' section 'D'. [01:49]
bitesak good night ! [01:50]
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pankkake well, I get the point of the device, but no backup is a dealbreaker for me [01:53]
FabianB mircea_popescu: hmm.. but could gpg's smarcard api be used with cardano for signing/encryption instead of copying files? [01:53]
jurov asciilifeform: you have not considered adding a display? it's the thing i like about trezor [01:53]
jurov so that stuff to be signed can be verified right on the device [01:53]
mircea_popescu FabianB perhaps. i'll have to look into that. [01:53]
mircea_popescu jurov he tried, but couldn't get it past me. [01:53]
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pankkake also how do you communicate with it? you will need some software on the host? [01:54]
jurov pankkake: it's in tfa [01:54]
mircea_popescu pankkake nah, just normal stick [01:54]
jurov mircea and why not? [01:54]
Vexual add a discharge cap to smoke the usb hub just for fun [01:54]
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mircea_popescu jurov cause i'm that kind of asshole. [01:54]
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pankkake oh, you put your thing it its filesystem. clever [01:55]
jurov didn't you violate contract with this executive meddling? [01:55]
mircea_popescu no. my contract clearly states all employees must have unprotected sex with me. [01:55]
mircea_popescu it's written in blood. [01:55]
Vexual tansylvania style [01:56]
pankkake I guess you can write software using it, of course, but it's clever [01:56]
jurov poor stanislav... [01:56]
mircea_popescu pankkake yeah the idea is, you can make a simple bash script to backup sites [01:56]
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mircea_popescu without relying on any outside protection. [01:57]
mircea_popescu that's a good usecase, you know ? [01:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2750 @ 0.00085157 = 2.3418 BTC [+] {2} [01:57]
pankkake how would it work, to encrypt a, say, 4 GB file? [01:57]
mircea_popescu the encrypt is not handled by the cardano [01:58]
mircea_popescu decription admittedly may take a minute at that size. [01:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00085214 = 2.9399 BTC [+] {2} [01:58]
pankkake oh I'm dumb. you only need the pubkey for that [01:58]
mircea_popescu :p [01:58]
pankkake but yeah, the decryption then… [01:58]
pankkake it would have to work in a "streaming" way [01:59]
pankkake and I don't think you can do that with a filesystem [01:59]
mircea_popescu why ? [01:59]
mircea_popescu (why streaming) [01:59]
pankkake does the cardana have gigabytes of storage? [01:59]
pankkake cardano* [01:59]
mircea_popescu C) Working slate ROM. This Flash ROM is removable, and may be inspected or replacedx by customers either before deploying the unit or at any point during. [02:00]
mircea_popescu if it doesn't you can solder your own in. [02:00]
mircea_popescu o wait. no need to solder, cause nsa made it replaceable. [02:00]
pankkake ROM is Read Only Memory right? so I don't get it [02:01]
mircea_popescu it's the same thing you find if you crack open any usb stick [02:01]
pankkake I wouldn't call it ROM [02:02]
mircea_popescu >< [02:02]
mircea_popescu but then again you're french. [02:02]
Vexual cdr is rom [02:02]
pankkake well you're ROManian… [02:02]
jurov mircea_popescu: really, what happens if i put on it 4GB file to decrypt? where will it put the decrypted file? [02:02]
mircea_popescu jurov well hopefully it has a 8gb slate, it puts it right there [02:02]
mircea_popescu pankkake no srsly, it's what they're called. [02:03]
jurov especially if gpg compressed it while encrypting [02:03]
pankkake I guess (looking at [02:03]
pankkake but you will confuse people. Flash memory could be clearer [02:03]
mircea_popescu ram is volatile, rom is not volatile. it's what the words mean. [02:03]
mircea_popescu if it confuses people it's because people gotta learn what the words mean. [02:04]
pankkake anyway, I think an optional, streaming interface would be good [02:04]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.0089858 = 0.2336 BTC [+] {3} [02:04]
Vexual 3 letter? didn't read, too long [02:04]
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mircea_popescu pankkake maybe, but it'd be a diff product. this one separates itself from computer when touching the key, [02:04]
mircea_popescu so as to rpotect from a variety of snooping techniques such as diff analysis from the host. [02:05]
pankkake it doesn't have to be different - it would simply be another service provided by the device; and would probably provide less attack vectors than the filesystem [02:05]
pankkake I mean, it can perfectly provide both [02:06]
jurov oh, and have you considered safely erasing decrypted stuff once it is used? [02:06]
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mircea_popescu jurov the writing scheme is most-used rather than least-used [02:06]
mircea_popescu consequently, you can trash the bits yourself by repeatedly copying/deleting a file to it. [02:07]
pankkake jurov: there is actually a better way: use a one-time-encryption key for the filesystem. each time you reboot it, it is effectively erased [02:07]
mircea_popescu pankkake it's never rebooted. [02:07]
pankkake then unmount/remount [02:07]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 43 @ 0.008989 = 0.3865 BTC [+] [02:07]
pankkake just forget the password [02:07]
mircea_popescu something like that. [02:07]
Vexual call it solid state, it sounds more expensive than rom or flash [02:08]
jurov hmmmm... cuz safely erasing today's wear-levelled flash memory is non-trivial endeavor [02:08]
pankkake it's less IO expensive than erasing the data (but more CPU expensive as anything written is encrypted) [02:08]
jurov or you use something custom? [02:08]
mircea_popescu jurov which is why this is optimised the opposite way. it will wear down the bits. [02:08]
mircea_popescu yes, tis custom. [02:08]
pankkake custom how? [02:09]
mircea_popescu custom as in, it optimises for maximum wear. [02:10]
mircea_popescu as opposed to how commercial flash drioves work (optimised for least wear) [02:10]
pankkake doesn't really respond to the "is the decrypted data recoverable" [02:10]
jurov ^this [02:11]
mircea_popescu it does. if you are concerned about this point, copy a file repeatedly until the bits die, and so then it won't be. [02:11]
mircea_popescu if you're not, you're not. [02:11]
pankkake that sucks, and as stated, you have ways to make the concern go away *and* not wear the thing [02:11]
mircea_popescu sometime life sucks. [02:12]
pankkake your product is flawed, there are easy ways to fix it and yet… no? [02:13]
mircea_popescu the product is fine. you have an issue being somehow convinced you can design stuff while simultaneously not having a clue what rom is. [02:14]
mircea_popescu this issue is not of the world. [02:14]
pankkake and I'm only getting evasing responses now. pathetic [02:15]
mircea_popescu mkay. [02:15]
Vexual associates seeking similar outcomes leaving earth [02:15]
jurov Vexual: it's your brainwallet? [02:15]
Vexual whoops wrong window [02:16]
mircea_popescu if it is he has no btc ;/ [02:16]
Vexual ASSOLE [02:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1050 @ 0.00085235 = 0.895 BTC [+] [02:16]
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nubbins` heuristic outcomes [02:19]
Vexual nice. i couldnt think of a suitable h [02:20]
jurov pankkake, we'll see when the design will come out... [02:20]
pankkake it's not hard to give clear answers [02:20]
jurov if it really it will be required to run shred /dev/sdf; mkdosfs /dev/sdf every time [02:20]
jurov then i guess bigger animals than us will start making fun of it [02:20]
mircea_popescu jurov there's a lot of sales copy there but i dunno how it's supposed to work/be implemented. [02:21]
mircea_popescu so i have no idea. [02:21]
pankkake "I don't know" is a better answer than "it's fine" when it's not [02:21]
* elgrecoFL (Jezzz@unaffiliated/elgrecofl) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:21]
mircea_popescu pankkake listen man, sometimes you will confront this situation where your imagination does not meet reality. people will tell you this, you will have to somehow digest it. [02:21]
mircea_popescu there's no way around it, and petulence certainly ain't it. [02:22]
jurov whose petulance? [02:23]
mircea_popescu the definition of petulence is "i've not done anything to date but i will declare your item "flawed" because i am upset that you don't agree with what i think is the case". [02:23]
pankkake again, if your product has no instand erase of its decrypted contents, it loses a great deal of attractivity - telling users they have to shred themselves is far away from the goal of having an easy secure device [02:23]
mircea_popescu can you quote where this goal you imagine for me was stated ? [02:24]
* CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Leaving) [02:25]
jurov yeah cause very easy to use, very hard to fuck anything up. [02:25]
mircea_popescu hardly a goal. but anyway, let's go throuigh the thing to make sure we're all on the same page, har har. [02:25]
mircea_popescu if you have remote control of the connected pc, but no physical control of the stick, [02:26]
pankkake and the worst thing is, it's not a big deal to fix. there is no reason to start going all like "it's not a problem" [02:26]
mircea_popescu you can't read the deleted part of the work slate. [02:26]
mircea_popescu if you have physical control of the stick, you can remove the working slate, but still can't read it, because it has a cypher. [02:26]
pankkake you can read the raw filesystem of usb sticks [02:26]
mircea_popescu if you are real good and manage to extracrt the cypher out of the chip and decode the working slate, you might be able to read whatever's not been destroyed on the drive. [02:27]
mircea_popescu the definitive protection to this is a) don't lose physical control of the stick and b) destroy the slate. [02:27]
mircea_popescu this is how the thing is intended to work. there aren't and won't be unrelated cases glued on because people think they're cool. [02:27]
mircea_popescu because this isn't a cool thing, this is a useful thing. [02:27]
pankkake no, you can simply read the whole filesystem silently, when it is plugged [02:28]
mircea_popescu and you know this because ? [02:28]
pankkake because that's how USB Mass Storage works [02:28]
mircea_popescu right-o. [02:28]
asciilifeform ok I should probably chime in here. Easy answer: [02:28]
asciilifeform we have a session block cipher key for working slate in SRAM [02:28]
mircea_popescu bah ruining all my fun. [02:29]
pankkake asciilifeform: wow, so… that what I was proposing! [02:29]
pankkake see? don't deny the issue, especially if it is already fixed [02:29]
mircea_popescu eh get out [02:29]
mircea_popescu i gotta make this guy sign an nda. [02:29]
mircea_popescu pankkake : did you read the "At the end of this procedure, the working slate will have been re-formatted, and will appear empty - as Cardano no longer possesses the old block-cipher key." part ? [02:31]
asciilifeform without saying much more, the quick answer is: if some part of the draft spec seems illogical / bizzare / 'couldn't physically wurk', the answer is generally 'the obvious fix.' [02:31]
pankkake no. I TL;DRed it. but that was no reason to say that my concern was invalid - it was valid, and actually taken care of [02:31]
mircea_popescu which means it's invalid. [02:32]
pankkake ugh… [02:32]
Vexual sscience [02:34]
Vexual can i get a 9 pin plug instread of usb? :) [02:35]
pankkake you mean a 9 in plug? [02:35]
asciilifeform Vexual: for your VT-100? [02:36]
Vexual yeah im saving up for a new computer [02:36]
nubbins` hey! my bitbet was accepted [02:37]
nubbins` thrilling [02:37]
mircea_popescu how did that happen! [02:38]
mircea_popescu and i gave clear orders no futher bets to be accepted!!1 the entire system is breaking down! [02:38]
nubbins` lel [02:39]
Vexual whats the bet? [02:39]
nubbins` [02:39]
ozbot BitBet - Havelock will announce US restrictions by Guy Fawkes Night [02:39]
nubbins` it's en vogue these days [02:40]
Vexual are you the no nubs? [02:40]
nubbins` not sure how to answer [02:41]
nubbins` oh! [02:41]
nubbins` lel [02:41]
nubbins` no [02:41]
nubbins` i thought you were asking if i didn't have any nubs [02:42]
pankkake while the "ASICMINER weekly dividend drops below 0.005 per share in 2013" was getting rejected it is now too late, as the last one was 0.004 [02:42]
kakobrekla [02:42]
ozbot Oops: Azerbaijan released election results before voting had even started [02:42]
nubbins` hah [02:42]
Vexual private fibre [02:43]
asciilifeform speaking of Azerbaijan, has anyone here done the TOR exercise suggested in MP's comments? [02:43]
nubbins` which exercise is that? [02:44]
mircea_popescu lol azerbaijan govt is truely efficient. [02:44]
asciilifeform [02:45]
ozbot Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [02:45]
nubbins` someone mentioned it earlier today [02:45]
pankkake given I know people who had police visits quickly after running exit nodes, I won't [02:46]
asciilifeform don't do it on a residential pipe. [02:46]
pankkake and probably don't do it on your name, but with some kind of legal shield [02:47]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.36110131 BTC [+] [02:47]
pankkake I mean, legal entity [02:47]
Vexual more 802.11s! [02:47]
asciilifeform it is best done under the flag of an organization existing for some other not entirely related purpose. [02:47]
asciilifeform with the commander's approval, naturally [02:48]
asciilifeform or if you're a cheapo you can just rent an Amazon EC2 instance. [02:48]
asciilifeform they Officially love TOR. [02:48]
pankkake won't Amazon rat you out? [02:48]
asciilifeform last i checked tor exits were explicitly permitted in their TOS [02:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.42999999 = 0.86 BTC [+] {2} [02:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 33 @ 0.11248786 = 3.7121 BTC [-] {8} [02:49]
asciilifeform the fact of them sneaking a peek at your results if they feel like it is another matter. [02:49]
pankkake having the server pulled off isn't the real concern, the real concern is them giving your personal info to the police [02:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform don't you find that amazon love quite damning ? [02:50]
asciilifeform and if you diddle traffic in an easily detected way, TOR foundation will add your node to its blacklist. [02:50]
pankkake there are many other providers who explicitely say TOR is OK [02:50]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 22 @ 0.10165454 = 2.2364 BTC [-] {5} [02:50]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.43 = 0.86 BTC [+] [02:50]
mircea_popescu pankkake like who ? (i've not been watching this any) [02:50]
pankkake some others that automatically shut you down (I know one who monitors for both TOR and Freenet) [02:50]
asciilifeform there is no shortage of damning. TOR's authors really love it when you run it on VPS hosts, saves them some $ on running their own diddled nodes. [02:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00085235 = 0.8524 BTC [+] [02:51]
pankkake [02:51]
pankkake I'm running a relay on an EDIS node [02:51]
mircea_popescu Arvixe (hosting) Openly and respectfully state that while they dont permit a TOR exit on shared hosting accounts, you are very welcome to run one on a VPS account. [02:52]
mircea_popescu nice. [02:52]
asciilifeform 'shared hosting' typically means no persistent processes [02:52]
asciilifeform so, no IRC either, etc [02:52]
pankkake hehe, I remember when you could rent "shells" and the number of resident processes was limited [02:53]
pankkake for the same price you can probably get a dedicated server now [02:53]
asciilifeform my advice to anyone who does the exercise is to look up what happened to the Swedish fellow who did likewise and published the results in an academic paper. [02:54]
asciilifeform and then draw appropriate conclusions. [02:54]
Vexual you can kiss those 4 centibits goodbye nubbins [02:55]
pankkake anyway, the tor list of isps is a good source even if you don't care for TOR [02:55]
asciilifeform the TOR source is a good source even for those who don't care for TOR [02:56]
asciilifeform it is one thing to say 'gotta be a honeypot, bureaucrats wrote it' and another to see just how the pot is intended to function [02:56]
asciilifeform and under what conditions it is usable as something else. [02:56]
pankkake him? [02:56]
ozbot Tor Researcher Who Exposed Embassy E-mail Passwords Gets Raided by Swedish FBI and CIA | Threat Leve [02:56]
asciilifeform yes, him. [02:57]
Vexual no wait, the other ways around [02:57]
pankkake the tor project explicitely says you should not trust exit nodes [02:57]
asciilifeform it says quite a few things [02:57]
asciilifeform such as, for instance, that a healthy person should eschew Winblows [02:58]
asciilifeform words are cheap. [02:58]
pankkake TBB ships with HTTPS anywhere, not that it is enough… [02:58]
pankkake actually, even torbrowser on linux is quite risky [02:59]
pankkake unless you forbid any non-tor traffic, like Tails does [02:59]
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asciilifeform anyone who even thinks of 'browser' when thinking about TOR, etc. is already in a state of damnation. [03:00]
pankkake what do you mean? [03:01]
asciilifeform refer to the 'dumb users' section of the latest TOR dirt leak (even if you believe that the 'leak' is disinfo, the section applies to most users.) [03:02]
asciilifeform so consider the case of a TORist who proceeds to log into gmail, etc. while on a circuit [03:02]
asciilifeform game over. [03:02]
asciilifeform or the similar case of 'cookies' enabled [03:03]
pankkake right [03:03]
pankkake that's why Tails is great: use it to do your thing and this only [03:04]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.9530003 = 1.906 BTC [+] [03:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.00866 = 0.3637 BTC [-] [03:06]
blastbob1 i was dreaming about a irc based exchange on the tor network [03:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.9530002 BTC [-] [03:07]
pankkake hmm and you would put orders through bots? [03:08]
blastbob1 yea [03:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.953 BTC [-] [03:08]
pankkake I like it - tor or not [03:08]
blastbob1 faster than any web on tor atleast [03:08]
kakobrekla assbot speaks mpex [03:09]
pankkake I don't like websites or browsers, so :) [03:09]
mircea_popescu blastbob1 you are aware this is how mpex works yes ? [03:09]
kakobrekla :p [03:09]
blastbob1 heard some rumours yes [03:09]
mircea_popescu [03:09]
ozbot The many ways available for talking to MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [03:09]
mircea_popescu there, spec. why live on rumors. [03:10]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 51 @ 0.00867 = 0.4422 BTC [+] [03:11]
blastbob1 Can you accually buy and sell with it also? [03:12]
mircea_popescu yup [03:12]
pankkake $proxies [03:13]
mpexbot pankkake: ["", "", "", "", ""] [03:13]
kakobrekla i hear rumours? [03:15]
kakobrekla [03:16]
ozbot Awesome - Rumours - YouTube [03:16]
Azelphur proxies? have places started blocking mpex? XD [03:17]
pankkake simply prepare for the worst [03:17]
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Azelphur ah [03:17]
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kakobrekla most of those are offline [03:18]
kakobrekla proxies [03:19]
pankkake is that indented? [03:19]
pankkake intended [03:19]
kakobrekla i doubt [03:19]
Azelphur mircea_popescu: I spot a kivy screenshot [03:19]
Azelphur :) [03:19]
nubbins` Vexual: not my bitcents! i'm in it to win it [03:20]
Vexual yes well you must have seen snl last week too nubbins [03:20]
nubbins` sadly, no :( [03:20]
Vexual the thinking persons merican news and currnt affairs [03:20]
nubbins` i thought that was the onion [03:21]
Vexual no thats just to confuse old people [03:21]
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nubbins` ah! i have so much to learn [03:22]
nubbins` i get most of my news through the glorious red lens of the canadian broadcasting corporation [03:22]
Vexual the red lens is the bc bud? [03:23]
nubbins` i was referring to their strong slant to the left [03:23]
nubbins` although i think i recall that in other places red is the right-wing color of choice? [03:24]
* nubbins` shrugs [03:24]
nubbins` hard to keep track [03:24]
mircea_popescu Azelphur hm ? [03:24]
Azelphur in your blog post [03:24]
Azelphur I spy python+kivy [03:24]
mircea_popescu o. [03:25]
Azelphur [03:25]
mircea_popescu yeh [03:25]
mircea_popescu some people don't know the glory of perl [03:25]
Azelphur you mean, the terribleness [03:27]
mircea_popescu :p [03:27]
mircea_popescu im in such a trollish mood today [03:28]
Vexual tell that to a t1000 terminator, theyre all perl [03:28]
nubbins` i thought they were written in RPG IV [03:29]
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pankkake you can run a kivy application on a desktop too? [03:32]
* Evolyn_ is now known as Evolyn [03:32]
nubbins` sure [03:32]
mircea_popescu you can run anything on linux. [03:32]
mircea_popescu that is what the word means. [03:32]
pankkake I knew it mostly as a way to write Android applications in Python. if it can run without the android crap, it's great [03:34]
mircea_popescu i think it's pretty much useful as a way to write for smartphones, but it does run in linux. [03:35]
mircea_popescu which means it can be run on the toaster oven or w/e. [03:35]
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mircea_popescu Vexual ? [03:37]
pankkake well I'm on a project where most of GUIs suck, and we only support one dead mobile platform. kivy was on our radars [03:37]
mircea_popescu jesus that sounds bad. [03:38]
pankkake not really. we're like mpex, mostly CLIs :p [03:38]
Vexual also not actualy self aware [03:38]
mircea_popescu aok [03:39]
pankkake looks like no java required for kivy on desktop. yay [03:41]
mircea_popescu nope. it's a decent tool. [03:42]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 32 @ 0.00881 = 0.2819 BTC [-] [03:50]
mircea_popescu [03:50]
mircea_popescu apparently wikipedia has one good article on it. [03:50]
nubbins` "This is a list of non-pornographic, English language films" [03:53]
pankkake FPM is a good unit [03:53]
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pankkake there's also youtube videos with only the fucks [03:54]
mircea_popescu the fuckdebit [03:55]
nubbins` f/m^2 as the fucks accelerate [03:55]
pankkake [03:56]
ozbot Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back: The F*cking Short Version - YouTube [03:56]
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mircea_popescu english is so banal. i can only imagine what that'd have sounded like in romanian. [04:02]
pankkake indeed, I wonder if other language have such a popular curse worse [04:03]
pankkake word* [04:04]
pankkake (though the joke is also the translation) [04:05]
ozbot fuck you - YouTube [04:05]
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mircea_popescu m'embeterai [04:05]
mircea_popescu lmao [04:05]
pankkake it's funny because it's true. French translations are pretty tame [04:06]
pankkake saperlipopette ! [04:07]
mircea_popescu [04:07]
ozbot injuraturi - YouTube [04:08]
mircea_popescu this is one of the better romanian strings. [04:08]
mircea_popescu interestingly, the chick is actually french and she doesn't speak romanian. learned it phonetically. [04:08]
pankkake nice [04:08]
mircea_popescu (Marthe Felten) [04:09]
Vexual [04:10]
ozbot Hercules Returns: "Testiculi's father".. Part 1 - YouTube [04:10]
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nubbins` huh, virtex is issuing debit cards now [04:11]
nubbins` cool [04:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.008989 = 0.2337 BTC [+] [04:11]
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Lennix any updates from ukto regarding refunding the bugged fees? [04:12]
pankkake that movie is an insult goldmine and a classic [04:12]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 34 @ 0.009 = 0.306 BTC [+] {3} [04:14]
mircea_popescu According to Pileggi, Scorsese cold-called the writer and told him, "I've been waiting for this book my entire life." To which Pileggi replied "I've been waiting for this phone call my entire life". [04:14]
pankkake I'm becoming addicted to zero fee transactions. it's like gambling except you eventually win [04:20]
kakobrekla coincontrol build is perfect for that [04:26]
kakobrekla you can easily add bloat btc to make it free [04:26]
kakobrekla or select apropriate input [04:26]
pankkake it's how I chose the amounts I bitbet usually, I take a full input :) [04:27]
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mircea_popescu it does have a cost tho [04:28]
kakobrekla you can do 1 satoshi tx and attach 100 btc to it for bloat and its free [04:28]
Vexual a satoshi saved is a satoshi earned [04:28]
mircea_popescu in the sense that old coinbase are worth that many btcdays [04:28]
pankkake indeed. I was actually thinking of how a service could try to lower its fees by coinbase optimization [04:29]
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kakobrekla have one big input of 1k btc and shave off btc [04:29]
kakobrekla change address always self [04:30]
pankkake if the change address is self, then it's still considered old? [04:30]
Vexual no [04:30]
kakobrekla nop [04:30]
pankkake that's why I thought of having multiple old coinbases, of many values [04:30]
kakobrekla just make it big enough [04:31]
Vexual 1000 btc ages quickly [04:31]
pankkake oh, the bigger it is, the faster it ages? [04:31]
kakobrekla "btcdays" is the unit [04:31]
kakobrekla 1 btc per day [04:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.13085 BTC [+] [04:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 29800 @ 0.00018099 = 5.3935 BTC [-] {4} [04:31]
kakobrekla 0.5 btc would take 2 days [04:31]
kakobrekla 2 btc would take half a day [04:32]
pankkake I see. cool. I wasn't able to find a good documentation on the matter earlier [04:32]
kakobrekla ;;calc (60*60*24)/1000 [04:33]
gribble 86.4 [04:33]
kakobrekla looks like 86 seconds for a 1k [04:33]
kakobrekla a sendtomany every block easy [04:34]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 14 @ 0.008821 = 0.1235 BTC [-] [04:40]
Vexual hows the 250k block gonna work in 5 years? [04:40]
Vexual plebs will only be able to send coins using services affiliated with mining conglomerates? [04:41]
mircea_popescu pretty much [04:42]
Vexual cool, im gonna buy noumea so i can learn improper french properly [04:45]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.43 = 2.15 BTC [+] [04:49]
pankkake ;;bc,stats [04:52]
gribble Current Blocks: 262659 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1436 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour, 37 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 220202781.137 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.33629 [04:52]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 85 @ 0.009 = 0.765 BTC [+] {2} [04:58]
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nubbins` anyone feel like fielding a couple of questions about coloured coins? [05:02]
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Jere_Jones Anyone know what's going on whty Ukyo lately? [05:07]
Jere_Jones s/whty/with [05:07]
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Vexual hes maybe moving to okinawa [05:09]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.009 = 0.36 BTC [+] [05:09]
Vexual waiting on a visa for his cat [05:10]
Jere_Jones He seems to be MIA for over a week now. [05:10]
Vexual biosecurity is pretty big in japan [05:10]
mircea_popescu ;;seen ukyo [05:13]
gribble ukyo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, 26 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: So speculate all you want. :) [05:13]
mircea_popescu ;;seen ukto [05:13]
gribble ukto was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 2 days, 17 hours, 12 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: yeah. there are easier ways. :) [05:13]
nubbins` after an admittedly short search, i wasn't able to find a whole lot of technical info on the theory behind colored coins, but i found this odd snippet in a paper: [05:13]
mircea_popescu hm [05:13]
Vexual im joking people, hes moving to tokyo [05:14]
nubbins` "A valid Bitcoin transaction which does not follow the special colored format, will be recognized by the Bitcoin network, but not as a legitimate color-preserving transaction by the colored coin network. The color of these coins will be lost, and hence users and software clients need to be careful to avoid doing this and losing their value." [05:14]
Vexual cat is true [05:14]
nubbins` but why the fuck would you design it in such a way that the "color of the coins" (i.e. your shares in company x or whatever) could ever be lost? [05:14]
nubbins` it boggles me [05:14]
Vexual otherwise its racist? [05:14]
Vexual couloured coins isn't even a thing [05:15]
nubbins` that's it [05:15]
nubbins` it's because shit like i pasted doesn't make sense [05:15]
nubbins` and things that don't make sense don't get implemented [05:15]
pankkake why even use the bitcoin blockchain? [05:15]
nubbins` hash power! [05:16]
pankkake merged mining! [05:16]
nubbins` separate blockchain would be vulnerable to 51% attacks [05:16]
pankkake well, ok, you have to add incentives to merge mine it [05:16]
nubbins` but let's say i own 100 shares in company x [05:16]
Vexual le nuage [05:16]
nubbins` why can't i just send pankkake a dust transaction with "xfer 100 S.GEM" in the note field? [05:17]
mircea_popescu nubbins` because idiots. [05:17]
mircea_popescu see also [05:17]
mircea_popescu ;;google why i nixed [05:17]
nubbins` i mean, if the idea behind colored coins is that you have to make this huge tree of transactions that have some sort of magic dust in them [05:17]
gribble nixed - definition of nixed by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus ...: ; Why I nixed p2p, colored coins and all that jazz pe Trilema - Un blog ...: ; Why I Nixed the Knicks | The New York Observer: [05:17]
nubbins` why not tie the shares to the address, not to any particular coins? [05:17]
nubbins` i send a dust tx to address 1abc, with note "xfer 100 s.gem", so address 1abc is assumed to always possess those 100 shares, permanently [05:18]
nubbins` no losing them [05:18]
nubbins` until they send a dust tx to someone else saying xfer 50 s.gem or whatever [05:18]
pankkake from what I understand, colored coins aren't much better than asicminer-style direct shares [05:19]
nubbins` tying assets to individual coins and not addresses doesn't make any sense [05:19]
nubbins` the only thing direct shares need is a way to post bids and asks [05:19]
nubbins` without relying on a website [05:19]
mircea_popescu because the handkling of fixed addresses is poorly understood because, again, idiots. [05:21]
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pankkake I'm still waiting for any technical insight on colored coins, so far I only see circlejerks (like the reddit shirt fundraiser) [05:22]
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nubbins` nothing that couldn't be trivially implemented in any desktop or web-based bitcoin client [05:22]
nubbins` another tab next to "receive money" on your account [05:23]
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mircea_popescu nubbins` here's the thing : if you do it with addresses you don't really need the blockchain, might as well do it to gpg signatures. [05:24]
mircea_popescu which reduces to a slightly braindamaged reimplementation of mpex. [05:25]
nubbins` mpex servers melt tomorrow, no trading; i can still send a dust tx to transfer my colored address shares [05:26]
Vexual you got a dude with an ak guarding your private key? [05:26]
nubbins` i'm assuming you keep records of who owns what? suppose you didn't have to [05:27]
nubbins` Vexual: don't we all? [05:27]
Vexual few do [05:27]
mircea_popescu nubbins` you can, but you have an escrow problem each time you do. [05:27]
nubbins` escrow is a problem? [05:28]
mircea_popescu yes, escrow is a problem. [05:28]
nubbins` multi-sig transactions [05:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 58 @ 0.009 = 0.522 BTC [+] [05:29]
mircea_popescu multi-sig txs are not a solution to the escrow problem really. [05:30]
Vexual og blockchain is the gold standard, accept no substitutes [05:30]
mircea_popescu they;'re a useful tool in some contexts, but you still need to have an escrow agent [05:30]
mircea_popescu if that agent melts down... no transactions. [05:30]
mircea_popescu which brings you back to exactly where we started. [05:30]
Vexual whats the point? [05:31]
nubbins` if the transacting parties agree, there's no need for the escrow agent at all, but you're correct in that the system would hinge on having a supply of readily-available escrow agents [05:31]
mircea_popescu yeah. [05:31]
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nubbins` although [05:31]
nubbins` it's trivial to verify a legit tx [05:31]
mircea_popescu depends on the state of the blockchain at that time [05:32]
mircea_popescu if it's forked, it may be impossible. [05:32]
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nubbins` well, if it's forked, lots of things are impossible [05:32]
mircea_popescu not for mpex. [05:32]
mircea_popescu moreover, you will have a sensible delay in all trades. what's better, one day a year of no trading or half hour lost to settle each individual trade ? [05:33]
nubbins` hm [05:33]
mircea_popescu today is like design 101 day [05:35]
Vexual got a logo yet? [05:35]
pankkake from what I see, this is going the way of the decentralized facebook [05:35]
nubbins` y'know, i think everything but the delay could be worked around [05:36]
mircea_popescu just about. decentralised trust is about as clever as decentralised cunt. [05:36]
mircea_popescu you got nothing to rub against. [05:36]
mircea_popescu in unrelated news, [05:36]
pankkake are anti-whatever programs having an opposite effect? yes [05:36]
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mircea_popescu Vexual logo for what you mean ? [05:38]
pankkake colored coins? [05:38]
pankkake it's the first step to any successful project! [05:38]
nubbins` the logo looks horrible in my head [05:38]
Vexual nothing to rub against, that bests beans in the sausage soup [05:38]
Vexual lmao [05:38]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 600 @ 0.00123997 = 0.744 BTC [+] {3} [05:39]
Kleeck_ LOL: oops! [05:39]
pankkake even MPEx has a logo! [05:39]
pankkake eh, still horrible [05:41]
Vexual i mean logo for beardy italian gpg stick [05:42]
[\] people still use favicon? [05:42]
nubbins` faviconcoin [05:42]
pankkake why wouldn't you have favicons? [05:42]
nubbins` having no favicon implies boorishness [05:43]
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Vexual if i may suggest, a bearded italian [05:56]
Vexual im pretty sure theres no copywrite on those images [05:57]
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mircea_popescu which ? [05:58]
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Vexual the name of the guy, who your gpg key is named after, whos name i forget becuase i didn't know of him before [06:00]
asciilifeform Vexual: he is also known for inventing... the crankshaft. [06:00]
Vexual really? [06:00]
Vexual i must have really skimmed wikipedia that time [06:01]
mircea_popescu i have no idea what's going on... [06:01]
asciilifeform well, the modern version thereof [06:01]
Vexual whats the name again? [06:02]
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asciilifeform err, not the crankshaft, the gimbal shaft [06:02]
asciilifeform as in this one - [06:03]
Vexual like some trustless gyroscope [06:03]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1 BTC [+] [06:04]
mircea_popescu o you mean the cardan joint ? [06:04]
asciilifeform right [06:04]
asciilifeform but I first learned of him because of 'Cardano's Grille' [06:05]
asciilifeform possibly the most fun low-tech cipher machine possible [06:05]
mircea_popescu which suggests a great line to me : whenever someone wants to featurecreep me, i shall go "we're doing a cardan joint not a thomson coupling here" [06:06]
Vexual you know rastas replace the word vital with ital [06:06]
Vexual and italians improved had made hash production in the himilayas [06:07]
Vexual they are very good at first principals [06:07]
asciilifeform the obsolete crypto method in question: [06:07]
asciilifeform who knew it was on pediwikia [06:07]
Vexual a beautiful culture in tune with an old language, great for thought [06:09]
mircea_popescu “Are you a federal employee that has been deemed non-essential? Do you have a little too much time on your hands and nothing to do? Is the recent government shutdown to blame? Here at we are committed to allowing our customers to find satisfaction. As vibrator enthusiasts, we want everyone to experience the pleasure that a nice vibrator can bring to partners and individuals. Besides, we know you have s [06:11]
mircea_popescu ome free time, why not try something new? has been giving away this free vibrator for years as a bonus gift with customers’ orders and it receives great reviews. It is fairly powerful, quiet, and uses a single AA battery (not included). It is 5 inches long and 1 inch in diameter, a smaller vibe. It is emblazoned with the logo on one side, so that you will forever remember our generosity.” [06:11]
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Vexual i remember something an old italian man told me, ingenious, i have to poke it in with a stick [06:14]
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Vexual its probaly funnier when you've seen his wife [06:23]
asciilifeform gimbal joint built into the stick, or the wife? [06:24]
Vexual whats latin for gspot? [06:25]
mircea_popescu punto g ? [06:26]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [14:43]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || - most days worth reading || - all days worth reading [14:43]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Sun Sep 29 03:06:59 2013 [14:43]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 8 @ 0.1001375 = 0.8011 BTC [-] {2} [14:55]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share [15:00]
mircea_popescu [15:01]
mircea_popescu shit one learns from one's blog. [15:01]
davout yo [15:02]
mircea_popescu ello. [15:03]
davout so i was reading your reply [15:03]
davout i concur when you say the fact the private key is never exported is a feature [15:03]
mircea_popescu "and i hate you now" [15:03]
mircea_popescu a ok [15:03]
davout nah, i never hate :-) [15:04]
davout but regarding the revocation cert it's still useful to have [15:04]
davout push it to keyservers, everybody gets notified [15:04]
mircea_popescu maybe. the one constraint in there, you have to appreciate, is that since we're not doing asics for this, [15:04]
mircea_popescu there's just so much space available for code [15:05]
mircea_popescu so iot's a game of well what can we fit of what we need to have [15:05]
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davout ofc [15:05]
mircea_popescu if we ever end up selling these by the 10's of ks then an asic run becomes more reasonable and it probably will present a muchly different picture [15:05]
davout i'm just saying you're forgetting the main point of the revocation cert (in this specific context) in your answer [15:05]
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mircea_popescu well, see, the cardano is principally to be used with people you are in contact with. [15:06]
mircea_popescu it's ideal usecase is not this, post pubkey on your blog, 20 years later still get encrypted email to that key (you've long lost) [15:07]
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davout hmm [15:08]
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mircea_popescu lermme quote here [15:08]
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mircea_popescu well i can't find it. somewhere phil zimmermann was saying that people still send him pgp encrypted email but he long since doesn't have the key so he usually responds to ask ppl to send it plainly [15:13]
mircea_popescu which he figures they might think it's a little strange. [15:13]
mircea_popescu anyway. that sort of thing isn't the usecase here, not really. a classic pc implementation works much better. [15:13]
davout yeah so it isn't really supposed to be "The safe vault for your precious keys"(TM) [15:17]
davout i see [15:17]
mircea_popescu nah, it's supposed to be the unbreakable instagpg item. [15:17]
mircea_popescu the mothership probably needs a different solution. this is what the xwingers use while in flight [15:17]
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davout i'm off, gonna build my mini GPG keychain with a raspberry pi and a betamax casing [15:25]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00085224 = 2.7272 BTC [+] [15:29]
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bitesak Matthew Green seems a good candidate to review the entropy of Cardano? [15:36]
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mircea_popescu bitesak sure, if he wants to [15:39]
mircea_popescu davout lol [15:40]
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Rulother_ well that script didn't work [15:44]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 1 = 3 BTC [+] [15:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1550 @ 0.00085105 = 1.3191 BTC [-] [15:59]
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mircea_popescu lol [16:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 140 @ 0.00998569 = 1.398 BTC [+] {5} [16:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.00998799 = 0.3696 BTC [+] [16:19]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 1.05624924 = 4.225 BTC [+] {3} [16:20]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.06499999 BTC [+] [16:21]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00900001 = 0.18 BTC [-] {2} [16:36]
davout clear [16:37]
davout whoops [16:37]
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davout [16:43]
mircea_popescu lol [16:43]
Rulother nice [16:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3219 @ 0.00085602 = 2.7555 BTC [+] {3} [16:47]
jurov hi davout, how long should the b-c verfication take? [16:48]
jurov i'm waiting almost a week [16:49]
davout our financial partner is really slow [16:51]
mircea_popescu who you working with ? i forget [16:51]
davout they're called lemon way [16:52]
davout i'm not sure they know about the lemon party [16:52]
mircea_popescu youi mean the start-up ?! [16:53]
mircea_popescu the "your phone # is your acct #" folks ? [16:54]
davout lol yeah [16:54]
mircea_popescu yes you do [16:54]
mircea_popescu jeez. well this won't last long. [16:54]
davout why is that ? [16:55]
mircea_popescu cause clueless imo. [16:55]
davout let's say that they understand fast, but you gotta speak slowly [16:56]
mircea_popescu heh. anyone ELSE work there outside of that burlet fellow ? [16:56]
davout yup, witnessed it first hand [16:57]
davout you know him? [16:57]
mircea_popescu not personally [16:57]
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davout well, don't go out of your way [16:58]
mircea_popescu lol. im sorry, but i have to rely on reams of intel. i can't personalyl know everyone. [16:58]
mircea_popescu anyway. mebbe it works out for you, but i'd keep on toes. [16:58]
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ThickAsThieves [17:02]
mircea_popescu "kept to himself and spent full days buried in his laptop." [17:04]
mircea_popescu dude... kids today. long time on a laptop is fucking egonomics suicide. [17:04]
mircea_popescu why. why do they do it. [17:04]
jurov is there anything else to do? [17:05]
mircea_popescu use a desktop! [17:05]
jurov touche [17:05]
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ThickAsThieves egonomics, invented by mpex [17:06]
mircea_popescu i suspect it's quite possible none of the recent kids ever got to use desktops and simply don't know the glory of comfort. [17:06]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves lol [17:06]
ThickAsThieves might be a good name for the blog [17:07]
mircea_popescu i meant ergonomics! i swear! [17:07]
ThickAsThieves popescuian slip [17:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5543 @ 0.00085746 = 4.7529 BTC [+] [17:08]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 41 @ 0.009001 = 0.369 BTC [+] {2} [17:08]
mircea_popescu i suppose i'll have to write the book now. [17:09]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.00900001 = 0.189 BTC [-] [17:09]
ThickAsThieves lol:;topicseen#new [17:09]
ThickAsThieves "You are already rich god damn it." [17:09]
ThickAsThieves what the world needs now, BTCT code open-sourced... [17:10]
jurov burnside's not sure if he can reliably wipe all passwords [17:10]
ThickAsThieves ? [17:11]
jurov remember bitcoinica? [17:11]
ThickAsThieves before my time [17:11]
pankkake "i suspect it's quite possible none of the recent kids ever got to use desktops and simply don't know the glory of comfort." yup [17:11]
pankkake they do learn, though. in pain [17:11]
jurov ftfy: in vain [17:11]
ThickAsThieves maybe that;s why they are such jerks [17:12]
ThickAsThieves all this decntralized exchange talk is driving me batty [17:12]
ThickAsThieves i started actually responding and making points, but it doesn't help of course [17:13]
ThickAsThieves "Direct shares is the only way forward, at this point. The fact that you have not put together a direct share system shows the short-sightedness of management." [17:13]
jurov ThickAsThieves: [17:13]
pankkake the other response could be "shut up and code" [17:13]
pankkake instead of circlejerking on how colored coins are the future [17:13]
ThickAsThieves or, Fuck you. [17:13]
ThickAsThieves lastpass, lol [17:14]
pankkake "I'm posting my idea here since it hasn't gotten much attention in the Project Development forum (0 replies)" [17:15]
ThickAsThieves mp, please write a Here's Why Everyone That Wants Decentralized Exchanges is Moron post [17:15]
ThickAsThieves assuming you havent already [17:16]
jurov there was kinda such discussion with asciilifeform's proposal on this topic [17:17]
davout clear [17:17]
jurov davout ? [17:18]
ThickAsThieves prepping the defibrillator? [17:19]
jcpham flatline [17:19]
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mircea_popescu skinnkavaj hasa a very interesting take on the world :D [17:20]
skinnkavaj mircea_popescu: What? [17:21]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves the relevant bit there is, after the third time bitcoinica was raped, the "bitcoin consultancy" group of dorks self proclaimed into importance & relevance decided to shut it down. [17:21]
mircea_popescu after which one of them, the fabled amir taaki, stole the code and published it [17:21]
LorenzoMoney yes, a decentralized stock exchange would be wonderful, wouldn't it [17:21]
mircea_popescu in what his foggy brain represented as "open sourcing", [17:22]
mircea_popescu supposedly if you torrent some movie you're also open sourcing it, cause you don't need a license in the first place to cede rights. [17:22]
skinnkavaj mircea_popescu: Did you respond to my comment i just made in neobee thread? [17:22]
LorenzoMoney and why are they morons? oh becauseyou area fascist [17:22]
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LorenzoMoney yes, bet you love Heinlein also [17:22]
mircea_popescu anyway. the code contained a lot of good bits including enough info to reconstruct a pw. [17:22]
mircea_popescu which resulted in some [more] lost btc. [17:22]
mircea_popescu skinnkavaj no it was about the btctc "you're already rich" thing [17:22]
skinnkavaj mircea_popescu: Isn't it true? [17:23]
skinnkavaj Does burnside need the money? [17:23]
mircea_popescu no, it's not true. [17:23]
mircea_popescu burnside is poor now, for one. his btct never made anything for the mention, for the other. [17:23]
skinnkavaj mircea_popescu: Didn't both litecoinglobal and btct have very huge fees? [17:24]
mircea_popescu moreover, poor idiots should not have access to code that SEEMS like it's doing something of that nature. [17:24]
mircea_popescu because they'll just fuck their lives up. [17:24]
skinnkavaj Ofc burnside is rich. [17:24]
mircea_popescu skinnkavaj they had very huge fees. he is not rich. go figure. [17:24]
mod6 ThickAsThieves: [17:24]
jurov and this is not abut burnside. now there's at least some technical barrier to keep your average noob/scammer to start his own exchange [17:24]
mircea_popescu ^ [17:24]
skinnkavaj jurov: Yeah like a free market hurts [17:25]
mircea_popescu to start his own WEBSITE which he misrepresents as an exchange. [17:25]
skinnkavaj LOL [17:25]
skinnkavaj and you are into bitcoin [17:25]
skinnkavaj because its sold to a company? [17:25]
mircea_popescu a collectiojn of idiots being confused about what they do != a free market. [17:25]
skinnkavaj So your argument is like, with open source everything that comes out is just crap? [17:25]
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pankkake "LorenzoMoney> yes, bet you love Heinlein also" wat [17:26]
mircea_popescu no. [17:26]
skinnkavaj And you are using bitcoin [17:26]
skinnkavaj Lmao [17:26]
skinnkavaj Maybe we should sell bitcoin to a company [17:26]
mircea_popescu my argument is that you are ill equipped to consider things, as displayed by the very dubious generalisation you just tripped yourself with. [17:26]
skinnkavaj Genius [17:26]
jurov skinnkavaj: i have seen myself some offers on freelancer "build me a bitcoin exchange", they were obviously clueless on first read [17:28]
jurov it's just better for everyone if they don't [17:28]
ThickAsThieves mp your colored coins article doesnt address many other problems [17:29]
skinnkavaj So what? With a free markey, people will choose where to go. Which one sets up the best BTCT clone will win in the end. [17:29]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves so point them out. [17:29]
mircea_popescu anyway, " burnside's not sure if he can reliably wipe all passwords" << no, just not sure how to cleanly remove the "give scammers fake btc to fake their volume" code. [17:30]
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ThickAsThieves the argument of course shifts depending on what problem it is people are trying to solve with decentralization [17:30]
jurov skinnkavaj: nope. the one who will manage to keep the bitcoins safe will win [17:30]
mircea_popescu of course. [17:31]
skinnkavaj jurov: Exactly what i said but in other words [17:31]
ThickAsThieves your points are mostly technical, involving the blockchain as being impractical [17:31]
ThickAsThieves i'd argue the concept itself is a unicorn [17:31]
mircea_popescu skinnkavaj no, not exacvtly what you said at all. [17:31]
mircea_popescu forum retards move to what SEEMS TO THEM a better alternative. [17:31]
mircea_popescu then they lose their btc. [17:31]
mircea_popescu which is ok because new retards come in. [17:31]
ThickAsThieves powers will always become ordered, dismantled, ordered, etc [17:31]
mircea_popescu if this process is allowed to become "what Bitcoin is" then Bitcoin will never be anything. [17:31]
skinnkavaj No, people use the service because its good. Thats the free market. Do you realize why everyone is abonding mtgox? [17:31]
mircea_popescu and a bunch of rich powerful people are here to fuck you in the mouth until you bleed [17:32]
mircea_popescu rather than let that happen. [17:32]
mircea_popescu i dunno how it can be made clearer. "free market" indeed. [17:32]
ThickAsThieves i see another conversation is happening sorry [17:32]
mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves no, im done with the "free market of retards" concept. anyway, re the colored coins : [17:32]
mircea_popescu the blockchain is fundamentally a solution to the bizantine problem [17:33]
mircea_popescu that problem exists like gravity exists. if you have it you gotta solve it. which is why the article focuses on the blockchain : if you're doing distributed anything, you have the bizantine poblem. [17:33]
ThickAsThieves admittedly, it doesnt seem to be the colored coin style developers making wild claims, but the people flocking to these ideas [17:34]
ThickAsThieves what i mean is [17:34]
ThickAsThieves people see exchanges closing [17:34]
ThickAsThieves and that decentralized things are now a solution [17:34]
ThickAsThieves colored coin type developers are merely trying to make an accountable ledger [17:35]
ThickAsThieves these are not the same things [17:35]
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mircea_popescu explain the difference ? [17:35]
ThickAsThieves well the devs are just trying to make a thing [17:36]
mircea_popescu i mean other than "Well different implementations of the same concept" [17:36]
ThickAsThieves while the cheerleaders are searching for a replacement for exchanges [17:36]
pankkake colored coins do not provide a solution for decentralized *trades* [17:36]
mircea_popescu so you envisage a distributed replacement that's NOT at the same time an accountable ledger ? [17:36]
ThickAsThieves no [17:36]
ThickAsThieves i despise the whole idea [17:36]
mircea_popescu not what i meant [17:36]
mircea_popescu i meant as a pure concept. could such a thing be conceived [17:37]
ThickAsThieves i simply believe any such pursuit is a waste of time [17:37]
mircea_popescu pankkake that's you know, like "cancer will get you" for the gunshot wound patient [17:37]
ThickAsThieves i see the securities market as an ideal system involving 4 major parties [17:38]
mircea_popescu anyway. something like ripple (and tf's abuse thereof) clearly showed what the problems are with trying to get a distributed trust model going. [17:38]
ThickAsThieves the Exhange/Platform, Investment Bank/Issuer, Investor, and the issued Business/Financial Instrument [17:38]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 81 @ 0.00997734 = 0.8082 BTC [+] {3} [17:38]
ThickAsThieves having all 4 allows the alignment of interests [17:39]
ThickAsThieves and balance of power/trust [17:39]
mircea_popescu this is at least the proven=to=work italian model the modern system is copying. [17:39]
mircea_popescu and now i shall be off scarfing smoked salmon and fresh apple pie seasoned with free market tears. bbs. [17:39]
ThickAsThieves these powers are made useful/profitable/covenient in their vert centralization [17:39]
ThickAsThieves very* [17:39]
ThickAsThieves to attempt to "decentralize" merely amounts to breaking things into less useful pieces [17:40]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.00997981 = 0.1896 BTC [+] [17:40]
ThickAsThieves thus all my problems with the decentralization of securities movement are conceptual [17:41]
pankkake I hereby decentralize ThickAsThieves [17:41]
pankkake you are now thick, and a thief [17:41]
ThickAsThieves lol [17:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00997981 = 0.499 BTC [+] {2} [17:41]
ThickAsThieves if you pile on mp's technical arguments about the blockchain's limits in providing a decentralized solution it only makes decentralization that much worse of a pursuit [17:42]
ThickAsThieves circling back to, i'd love to see blog article from mp that supported what ive just described [17:44]
ThickAsThieves although i guess no one would care much [17:44]
ThickAsThieves certainly not the forums [17:44]
ThickAsThieves "Such terms is rather ridicules and im sure they wont hold up in court in many country's" [17:45]
pankkake I'm not well versed in trade engines, but I don't see how you could execute them in a decentralized way [17:45]
pankkake even with only trusted nodes [17:45]
pankkake execute trades* [17:45]
ThickAsThieves i'm not inclined to find out :) [17:46]
ThickAsThieves another area people think decentralization addresses is circumventing SEC and other regulation [17:47]
ThickAsThieves this might be possible for nondescript financial instruments [17:47]
ThickAsThieves but not actual shares in companies [17:47]
pankkake unless the company is a scam, then it can work :) [17:47]
ThickAsThieves true [17:48]
jurov i dont undersstand, how it can work? i mean, how it protects said comapny from SEC? [17:59]
ThickAsThieves it doesnt [17:59]
ThickAsThieves thats the point [17:59]
mircea_popescu pankkake it's a hell of a problem. [18:00]
jurov so to what you said "true" then? i'm confused [18:00]
ThickAsThieves scammers would be safe [18:00]
ThickAsThieves since they would never say who they really are [18:00]
ThickAsThieves thus a decntralized service would make their lives easier [18:00]
mircea_popescu ;;google "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is" [18:01]
gribble South Sea Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Mackay, Charles, Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and ...: ; The Extraordinary Popular Delusion of Believing What You Read ...: [18:01]
* jurov can never get used to that "unless" word [18:02]
ThickAsThieves it's not a normal word? [18:02]
jurov no its not, especially if used like: unless the company is a scam, then it can work [18:04]
jurov i understood it the opposite way [18:04]
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jurov like "if the company is a scam, then it can work" [18:04]
ThickAsThieves thats correct intepretation [18:05]
ThickAsThieves r [18:05]
jurov er... i mean.. fuck it [18:05]
ThickAsThieves hehe [18:05]
jurov maybe it's just perl-induced braindamage [18:06]
ThickAsThieves "I think decentralized is the only way to go as this will happen to any other centralized exchange. Looking into the Namecoin code to create a decentralized exchanged. As was said above it can be merged mined with Bitcoin. We could uses our own miners to get it going." Ken Slaughter [18:08]
mircea_popescu rather than getting some pmbs that don't melt. [18:12]
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mircea_popescu because everyone gains when nobody does his job well because he's too busy trying to do poorly the jobs of others. [18:12]
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mircea_popescu fucking garzik syndrome. [18:12]
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mircea_popescu [18:32]
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samson_ If shares were issued on their own blockchain and could be freely moved between the various available trading sites / 'share wallets' there would be no real difference in trading a share to trading an altcoin. Something like this would provide no decentralised exchange but it provides a way to hold and move shares independently of any trading platform. Just like Bitcoin. [19:03]
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jborkl Who would approve- dissaprove securities - The only person I have seen competent in theis matter already has an exchange [19:05]
jborkl and do not sat the commnity, because a group of retards approving something is still a group of retards making a decision [19:07]
samson_ If anyone can create a security then I don't see the big deal. The approval process would happen automatically if people started trading them for Bitcoin. Take these new alt currencies which appear to be created daily - they're not all traded on exchanges hence they're not 'approved'. They still exist but that is irrelevant. [19:11]
samson_ I guess my take on it is the shares could do with decentralisation, not so much the exchanges. [19:12]
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ThickAsThieves you'd prefer the stock market to more resemble the altcoin markert? [19:28]
ThickAsThieves wasnt it close enough already with labcoins and activeminingcoins [19:28]
Jere_Jones lol [19:29]
Jere_Jones Were those really things? [19:29]
ThickAsThieves they behaved much the same... [19:29]
ThickAsThieves lots of people focusing attention on them like a bitcoingem [19:29]
ThickAsThieves then bagholders left to be determined [19:30]
Jere_Jones I admit that I, at one time or another, owned shares of both. [19:30]
ThickAsThieves hordes of ingoramuses asking what is a labcoin and how do i get them? [19:30]
ThickAsThieves anxious to hold their thread of the bag [19:30]
ThickAsThieves then poof the network disowns it [19:30]
ThickAsThieves threads unravel [19:31]
ThickAsThieves the bag is empty [19:31]
ThickAsThieves at least no one had to waste any GPU power [19:31]
samson_ It would be nice if we could withdraw shares from an exchange just like a coin. [19:31]
ThickAsThieves why [19:32]
samson_ It would end reliance on 'the exchange' so when it closes down they could be traded elsewhere. [19:32]
ThickAsThieves you rely on the issuer [19:32]
ThickAsThieves not the exchange [19:32]
ThickAsThieves the exchange is a platform [19:32]
ThickAsThieves just because you can "withdraw" your share, doesnt mean it will have usefulness in the same ways [19:33]
ThickAsThieves realize that in such a system you'd end up with more friction [19:33]
ThickAsThieves in time, in cost, etc [19:33]
ThickAsThieves me for example, you think i would manage a ledger system for free? [19:34]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00935 = 0.5984 BTC [-] [19:34]
ThickAsThieves even a decentralized system needs a point of issuance [19:35]
samson_ This is true, I'm not saying it's simple [19:35]
ThickAsThieves but you are saying you want it [19:36]
ThickAsThieves i'm saying you shouldnt [19:36]
ThickAsThieves professional service providers are useful [19:36]
ThickAsThieves anarchy is not [19:36]
samson_ I think it would be an evolution on current uses of blockchains without going down the whole coloured coins route [19:37]
ThickAsThieves there are still plenty other issues to address [19:38]
ThickAsThieves time is better spent pursuing running legitimate services [19:38]
ThickAsThieves imo at least [19:38]
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mircea_popescu basically the very primitive understanding of freedom has serious trouble coming to terms with the ancient procedure of labour division [19:45]
mircea_popescu on the basis of this we could say "the community" is sometime between 12k and 7k BC [19:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 750 @ 0.00085423 = 0.6407 BTC [-] [19:49]
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jborkl With respect to the capacitors, an investigation has been undertaken with, as they have suffered the issue with all their boards. [20:16]
jborkl KNC says all the caps blowing is due to the corsair ps [20:16]
mircea_popescu all ?! [20:16]
mircea_popescu wait a second. ALL ?! [20:17]
jborkl that is what it says [20:17]
jborkl It appears that a reasonable solution has been reached in that all the boards this has occurred to seem to have been used alongside the exact same PSU; The Corsair HX850.+ [20:17]
mircea_popescu dude it's not the power get out. [20:18]
jborkl Basically there is an issue with excessive current being applied, after the PU cuts out and the device is turned back on, causing the cap to pop. [20:18]
mircea_popescu if all the boards burn its not the capacitors, it's not the power, it's the board. [20:18]
jborkl I know, that is a bad diagnosis- it is just wrong [20:18]
kakobrekla hum [20:19]
kakobrekla but caps exploded / went on fire [20:19]
jborkl A better guess- they are drawing too much off the ps- it cuts off to protect itself and the caps pop [20:19]
kakobrekla not just poped [20:19]
kakobrekla one can overload cap for a short while [20:19]
kakobrekla that seems to me like something that happens while under load for some time [20:20]
jborkl it has been reported minutes after plugin [20:20]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla the current theory i'm crediting is that the boards have bad metal masks in a spot, and it slowly melts the insulation [20:20]
mircea_popescu after which it shorts. [20:20]
kakobrekla well minutes in an eternity for electricity [20:20]
jborkl that is a good theory mp [20:21]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 164 @ 0.00259998 = 0.4264 BTC [-] [20:21]
jborkl it makes sense- the KNC theory is just flat out wrong [20:21]
mircea_popescu jborkl originally it looked like caps just popped but the history since then does nto bear it out [20:22]
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jborkl The heavy scorch marks some of the boards are showing indicates more than a cap also [20:22]
mircea_popescu and moreover it seems the majority of people i showed the pics to say those aren't electrolytic but ceramic [20:23]
mircea_popescu which don [20:23]
mircea_popescu t pop that way [20:23]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.04987999 BTC [-] [20:23]
asciilifeform alternative: solder bridge (short) under the smt ceramic cap. [20:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nah because burned boards w/o such bridge were seen [20:24]
jborkl EDIT: I should add that KnC are using Corsair V850s themselves, and haven't had an issue with any of them. That said apparently they almost supplied their entire hosting with the HX, but due to the HX being out of stock for the volume required, they bought the V850. Which in hindsight is a wonderful thing. [20:24]
jborkl I just saw that [20:24]
asciilifeform bridge (accidental short, glob of solder where it doesn't belong) would vaporize in this case [20:25]
jborkl so, the entire hosting is being blamed on Corsair [20:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform vaporize is perhaps an overtstatement. [20:26]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 217 @ 0.0026 = 0.5642 BTC [+] [20:29]
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jborkl capacitors can't be damaged by having current applied "before they've discharged their load" [20:33]
jborkl heh, but I can [20:33]
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mircea_popescu lol the erotic capacitor theory. [20:34]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 15 @ 0.00935334 = 0.1403 BTC [-] {2} [20:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.022 BTC [-] [20:43]
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kakobrekla [20:52]
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kleeck Beautiful. [21:19]
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mircea_popescu kakobrekla [21:24]
kakobrekla dunno if serial but mkay [21:25]
mircea_popescu super cereal! [21:26]
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kakobrekla i need to find a way to avoid this happening for b4x, cause i know it is [21:28]
kakobrekla im more skeptical for bb sine theres all these odds in the air that you wont get your money back [21:28]
mircea_popescu why's it a bad thing anyway ? [21:28]
kakobrekla why is it a good thing? [21:28]
kakobrekla more liability for nothing [21:29]
mircea_popescu hm [21:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.9601 = 1.9202 BTC [-] [21:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96 BTC [-] [21:32]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.00899757 = 0.5938 BTC [-] {4} [21:33]
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Namworld Hmm, did something change with MPEx? pyMPEx doesn't work it seems. [21:41]
mircea_popescu Namworld more specifically ? [21:41]
kakobrekla did ya load the new key? [21:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96 BTC [-] [21:42]
Namworld ugh, new key eh... [21:44]
Namworld I use the .exe port of pympex [21:44]
Namworld I have to use an hex editor to change key I believe [21:44]
mircea_popescu ouch. [21:45]
mircea_popescu who compiled it ? [21:45]
Namworld No idea, can't remember who it was who made the port. [21:46]
Namworld But an hex editor usually works fine for changing the url or key to use [21:46]
mircea_popescu [21:47]
ozbot 50. Pando the Trembling Giant | Most Odd - Facts of Interest [21:47]
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mircea_popescu alright, that may work then [21:47]
Namworld What server is the key on? [21:48]
mircea_popescu Namworld read that thing [21:48]
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Namworld That works too, thank you [21:50]
jurov i just lost there myself for cople hours [21:54]
ozbot The TOF Spot: 9. The Great Ptolemaic Smackdown: From Plausible to Proven [21:54]
jurov oh this is the begining: [21:54]
jurov muchly recommend [21:54]
asciilifeform i second the rec [21:55]
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asciilifeform Mike Flynn is an odd fellow. very much 'anti-Enlightenment (TM)'. [21:56]
mircea_popescu the first article is largely factual [21:56]
qxzn is there a decent writeup somewhere of that Ripple "demonstration" TradeFortress made? [21:56]
mircea_popescu qxzn probably not past a number of scammer threads on the forum. [21:57]
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qxzn aw, that's a shame, it was such a good story [21:57]
mircea_popescu yeah i guess so. maybe one of the bloggers recounts it sometime. [21:57]
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Namworld bah, doesn't work [21:58]
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Namworld To hell with this [21:58]
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mircea_popescu Namworld in honestly hexediting seems a little hardcore [21:59]
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Namworld It worked before when MPEx moved to [22:01]
Namworld Those things are plaintext [22:01]
Namworld In any hex editor [22:01]
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mircea_popescu you did also resubmit your pubkey right ? [22:02]
Namworld Nope. Would explain it. [22:03]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 12 @ 0.008961 = 0.1075 BTC [-] [22:05]
Namworld Pubkey has been emailed. [22:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00259998 = 0.195 BTC [-] [22:08]
mircea_popescu [22:11]
ozbot A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: RSA warns developers not to use RSA products [22:11]
mircea_popescu for a little lol [22:11]
mircea_popescu best part is the "Sam is the boldface" bit lol [22:12]
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Namworld I see you re-added my key. Thank you. [22:23]
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mircea_popescu so your evil plan to hexedit an exe compile actually worked ? [22:34]
KRS1 Effective October 28, 2013 at 4pm CT, Dwolla will be withdrawing its service offerings to virtual currency exchanges and virtual currency related services. [22:34]
mircea_popescu KRS1 didn't they do this like... 3 times already ? [22:34]
Namworld Yes, it worked [22:35]
KRS1 I think so, but they're still working with exchanges like campbx. [22:35]
KRS1 this is probably it [22:35]
Namworld Key to use and url to submit appears as plaintext in the compile. [22:35]
* Namworld is a master of evil. A villain with a plan which worked. Quite rare. [22:36]
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KRS1 Virtual currency is slowly becoming a bad word. [22:38]
Namworld Because virtual = Does not exist in people's mind. [22:39]
Namworld People just need to learn their bank account statements are just as virtual. [22:39]
Namworld If they want something not virtual, they can just hold physical gold and silver or such thing. [22:40]
KRS1 someone needs to show them that lesson [22:40]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 1.03639999 = 5.182 BTC [+] {4} [22:42]
KRS1 Dwolla says Virtual Currency customers/merchants are 0.1 percent of their customer base..Hmm. [22:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00945598 = 0.4728 BTC [+] {3} [22:43]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 0.098002 = 0.49 BTC [-] {2} [22:52]
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mircea_popescu dwolla has a customer base now ?! [22:54]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 1st time i heard of dwolla, the consonant cluster made me think it was a nigerian spam bank. [22:55]
mircea_popescu it's a venture circuit scam thing, which is homologuous. [22:56]
KRS1 one of the only tools people have to move cash in/out of the system [22:56]
mircea_popescu for some values of "people". [22:57]
mircea_popescu anyway, i guess few are aware, but as per genius satoshi design the main way to move cash into bitcoin is mining [22:57]
mircea_popescu (via electricity consumption). [22:57]
mircea_popescu this was always the case to date. [22:58]
mircea_popescu the 2nd way is... also mining. through miner production. [22:58]
KRS1 so take fiat out of the equation..are bitcoins actually worth anything then? I dont know of anything you can do with them besides get some goods and services, best case. [22:58]
mircea_popescu yes, they are. [22:58]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if only this worked in reverse gear. [22:58]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the reason it can't work in reverse gear is that fiat is worthless. [22:59]
asciilifeform i was thinking more along the lines of btc to watts, rather than dollars [23:00]
KRS1 I apparently stepped into a chat room on another planet. [23:00]
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asciilifeform KRS1: nah, that's at #urbit [23:00]
KRS1 lol for real [23:00]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform i expect we will have brtc to watts. [23:00]
KRS1 but what about the Nigerian Sperm bank? [23:00]
mircea_popescu recently i had a wire fail to a supplier, and they were "well, send me bitcoin ?" [23:00]
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Namworld Supplier of what? [23:04]
Namworld Wish everyone did that [23:05]
mircea_popescu electronic parts. [23:05]
mircea_popescu course, electricity is a monopoly in most places for good physical reasons, so i guess the btc to watt thing will be one of the later parts. [23:06]
mircea_popescu but this changes little really. [23:06]
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jurov [23:23]
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mircea_popescu "Bitcoins will be transferred only after conversion into a currency." [23:25]
mircea_popescu herp [23:25]
mircea_popescu We kindly ask you to withdraw your Bitcoins to a wallet outside of If you do not withdraw your Bitcoins in 24 hours as instructed in the previous paragraph, please provide us with a valid bank account held in your name in a reply to this Account Termination Notice so Bitstamp can proceed with your Account termination and send you the currencies credited to your Account within 14 business days after your [23:25]
mircea_popescu Account has been terminated. [23:25]
mircea_popescu pretty illogical. [23:25]
kakobrekla does the css look good? [23:26]
mircea_popescu "You must have mentioned Fiat Banking." [23:26]
jurov OP says below it's not a scam cuz they did close the acct [23:26]
mircea_popescu that made it worth it lol [23:26]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 397 @ 0.001229 = 0.4879 BTC [-] [23:42]
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jurov ;;bc,stats [23:55]
gribble Current Blocks: 262818 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1277 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 10 hours, 47 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 228440874.109 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.68859 [23:55]
jurov heh right on track [23:56]
jurov maybe it will produce 1278th block on oct 17, 00:00:01 and CB.IDIFF-E holders will eat me alive :D [23:58]
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