Forum logs for 10 Mar 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

asciilifeform	kakobrekla: ?	[00:00]
asciilifeform	hm, nm?	[00:04]
kakobrekla	it seems it was down for 3 minutes	[00:06]
asciilifeform	interesting.	[00:10]
kakobrekla	and again apparently	[00:16]
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gernika	asciilifeform: do you operate the EE Tools EeRom-8U (I think you referenced it in the logs recently) with windows? If so, with which 10 foot pole?	[01:14]
asciilifeform	gernika: working on reversed driver.	[01:14]
gernika	of course	[01:15]
gernika	for personal use only?	[01:15]
asciilifeform	eventually will post.	[01:15]
gernika	sweet	[01:15]
asciilifeform	for the 5 people or so worldwide who give a fuck.	[01:15]
asciilifeform	kinda like what i did here, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=668	[01:16]
assbot	Loper OS » Cypress EZ-Host Firmware Development Under Linux. ... ( http://bit.ly/1p9qDDf )	[01:16]
gernika	It looked like there was a dos util for it -- then I realized that was from 1999.	[01:16]
asciilifeform	that was for prev version	[01:16]
asciilifeform	with, iirc, parallel port.	[01:16]
asciilifeform	unobtainable today.	[01:16]
asciilifeform	lulzily, eerom uses ~same chipset as the linked ^ above !!	[01:17]
asciilifeform	(inside is also a xilinx fpga and some sram.)	[01:17]
asciilifeform	but to go back to original question, yes, winblowz crapolade runs on boxes designated for the purpose	[01:19]
asciilifeform	(normally used to run malware)	[01:19]
gernika	ok. bleh. one more laptop laying around the house couldn't hurt I guess.	[01:21]
asciilifeform	gernika: what's your use case for eerom ?	[01:21]
gernika	I'm just going to try out some z80 stuff. seems easier to use this than flashing eeproms.	[01:22]
asciilifeform	sure is.	[01:22]
asciilifeform	comes with two snakes, can stuff right in the place of a 1980s rom.	[01:23]
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gernika	oh yeah - wasn't clear to me how to plug the thing in	[01:23]
asciilifeform	the thing also can, apparently, emulate an sram, and even generically master an 8-bit bus	[01:23]
asciilifeform	but i have not tried this yet.	[01:23]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00052437 = 2.3072 BTC [+] {3}	[04:58]
punkman	http://searchengineland.com/rip-google-pagerank-retrospective-244286	[05:26]
assbot	RIP Google PageRank score: A retrospective on how it ruined the web ... ( http://bit.ly/1TvcDRh )	[05:26]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> or did i read that backwards ? <<< seems so ?	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> for the 5 people or so worldwide << oif which apparently two here ?	[06:52]
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mircea_popescu	assbot> RIP Google PageRank score: A retrospective on how it ruined the web << this is not an idle comment. google, like every other usg item, like usg collectively, was entrusted with great responsibility in many fields after the war.	[07:19]
mircea_popescu	without exception it fucked up ALL of these. and not lightly fuck them up, either.	[07:20]
mircea_popescu	in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little intelligence available outside the w	[07:43]
mircea_popescu	alls, and more likely than not we'll be stuck picking between a warty rat and a sickly mole.	[07:43]
mircea_popescu	in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.	[07:43]
davout	i'm really not convinced we'll see a HF this year	[07:47]
mircea_popescu	i'm not convinced either. but there's the possibility.	[07:47]
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davout	!s segwit	[07:48]
assbot	26 results for 'segwit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=segwit	[07:48]
mircea_popescu	so far, nsa-gavin, prb and [prolly] the miner cartel are all preparing something or the other.	[07:49]
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jurov	extract alf from mordor?	[07:51]
mircea_popescu	but hwat if the princess is in another castle!	[07:52]
jurov	but seriously, what is a must have? mempool sanity and anything else?	[07:52]
mircea_popescu	well ideally a sane pow ; better ciphers ; etc.	[07:53]
davout	pogo's still high on my personal what-do-if-spare-cycles list	[07:53]
mircea_popescu	but by and large, a working miner people can deploy.	[07:53]
mircea_popescu	davout how's that coming along ?	[07:53]
davout	not much happening on my side	[07:54]
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danielpbarron	!up kodemurani	[08:52]
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*	shinohai will take notes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428463	[08:57]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:46; mircea_popescu: in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.	[08:57]
kodemurani	wondering if there is any discussion here on ether	[09:00]
kodemurani	Thank you danielpbarron for the voice	[09:01]
shinohai	Plenty of discussion here. When there isn't, there is a plethora of information in the logs.	[09:02]
kodemurani	Thanks shinohai. Going through the logs	[09:03]
shinohai	!h	[09:04]
assbot	http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot	[09:04]
shinohai	also that	[09:04]
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davout	kodemurani: https://medium.com/@bedeho/why-your-ethereum-project-will-most-likely-fail-d14b6d8f1c7c#.oqv393xrf <<< interesting, re ether	[09:05]
assbot	Why your Ethereum project will most likely fail — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1Wbtsyp )	[09:05]
davout	"The lesson of the very well built lighthouse Bitcoin project, which has resulted in no more than a few thousand dollars of funding over the past years, has to be that there is extremely little value to be gained by introducing trustless escrow in crowdfunding. Even if you wanted to crowdfund something very controversial, where traditional web platforms will ban you, its not at all clear that disintermediating holding funds before cap is re	[09:05]
davout	ached is a big part of making this type of crowdfunding effective. Even worse, the project organizer could always fund the remainder of the contract privately, hence it is not at all clear that there is any actual gain of security. While it was a nice use of SIGHASH_ALL, it really solved a non-problem"	[09:05]
davout	^guy has it	[09:05]
shinohai	Ether is simply a Rube Goldbergesque way of making money for it's founder to buy a lifetime supply of Retin-A. When he has it poof	[09:07]
davout	"The best case scenario for most of these projects is that there are end user benefits for other reasons, and that Ethereum is not required to deliver them. The complexity, and cost, of doing blockchain based products will in such cases eventually drive such products off chain, the same way changetip eventually went off-chain, and now recently into fiat mode."	[09:08]
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fluffypony	davout: I made that exact argument at a meetup in Berlin last year where someone presented some junk they're building on Ethereum	[09:14]
shinohai	"This is the Ethereum app directory with all non-working, gambling and meta apps removed." https://i.imgur.com/9OFeOiG.png <<< I kek'd at this.	[09:15]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Legaku )	[09:15]
fluffypony	and I asked them why they were building on Ethereum, and despite much hand-waving they couldn't give me an actual reason	[09:15]
fluffypony	most people building crap on top of "a blockchain" have no idea why they're doing so	[09:17]
davout	to me there are exactly two use cases for bitcoin/blockchain	[09:17]
davout	1. decentralized timestamping	[09:17]
davout	2. making taxes optional	[09:17]
davout	bbl	[09:18]
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shinohai	!up kodemurani	[09:27]
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punkman	https://i.imgur.com/9OFeOiG.png << we have pretty much all of those here :D	[09:29]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Legaku )	[09:29]
kodemurani	That report on ethereum is rather discouraging. (why ehtereum project will most likely fail) :-(	[09:29]
kodemurani	May be true	[09:30]
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shinohai	heh punkman you are right! xD	[09:31]
fluffypony	kodemurani: this is not new information	[09:33]
fluffypony	all rational, thinking people have known this to be the expected outcome from the very beginning	[09:34]
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danielpbarron	welp, AlphaGo is 2-0	[09:35]
asciilifeform	moar of the same.	[09:35]
asciilifeform	as last night.	[09:35]
danielpbarron	glad i didn't bet	[09:36]
danielpbarron	sfyl	[09:36]
asciilifeform	l0l	[09:36]
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asciilifeform	losing at bbet is pretty much the only place i can blow btc !	[09:37]
asciilifeform	(it is certainly where most of the ones i ever had, went.)	[09:37]
danielpbarron	i'm pretty good at doing that too	[09:37]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428461 << guess what ~i personally won't ever be caught dead doing~ ???	[09:38]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:06; mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little i	[09:38]
asciilifeform	while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~	[09:38]
asciilifeform	because not separable from usg in any meaningful way except - DEFINITIONALLY - by entering the wot and doing a LONG tour of duty as a Real Person	[09:39]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428468 << again, anyone who wants to follow a usg fork, can do it without me. and who wants to use a prb fork of whatever variety or rationale, can do it without me. ditto halfcocked crud conceived to enrich chinese scum.	[09:40]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 10:49:38; mircea_popescu: so far, nsa-gavin, prb and [prolly] the miner cartel are all preparing something or the other.	[09:40]
asciilifeform	i was willing to deal with the cpp miseryu of trb because 1) it pre-dates bitcoin being valuable 2) it was - and remains - the schelling point, 'father's pistols'	[09:41]
shinohai	I will use trb as long as it works on the overall network, failing that I will have to find something else to occupy my time.	[09:42]
asciilifeform	this pointedly does not mean that i am interested in attempting to wash the smell of shit off a rando sickly rat from rando sewer.	[09:42]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428471 << ada.	[09:42]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 10:52:32; jurov: but seriously, what is a must have? mempool sanity and anything else?	[09:42]
asciilifeform	i am sick and tired of there being usg c/cpp code in the loop ANYWHERE.	[09:43]
asciilifeform	ENOUGH wotless nonboundschecked language.	[09:43]
asciilifeform	(i loathe ada, but this needs a BOUNDS-CHECKED language where i can AUDIT THE BINARY and NO RUNTIME COMPONENT / GC - which leaves exactly ONE)	[09:44]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428469 << l0l you and with what crane, will extract.	[09:45]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 10:51:47; jurov: extract alf from mordor?	[09:45]
asciilifeform	it would, i suspect, take me 1/2 y to 1y of UNINTERRUPTED full time to come up with the goods. which pointedly isn't in any danger of happening.	[09:47]
asciilifeform	so if you lot end up surrendering, i will simply have to add 'bitcoin replacement' to my already tall pile of 'redo computing' pyramid, slowly grind it in my mostly nonexisting spare time, and wait another 20 years to find a new set of sane people, if i live that long.	[09:48]
asciilifeform	i will repeat, i have NO interest in any 'bitcoin replacement' originating from outside of the wot.	[09:50]
shinohai	As I told mod6 I do not advocate surrender myself :/	[09:50]
asciilifeform	anybody who wants to surrender, can go and do it without me.	[09:50]
jurov	so whole shiva stuff is ded alley for you?	[09:52]
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asciilifeform	jurov: it is for working on trb !	[09:52]
jurov	oh i misunderstood	[09:53]
danielpbarron	who suggested using a non-wot fork??	[09:53]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: mircea_popescu ! unless i misunderstood him somehow.	[09:53]
shinohai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428461 <<< this?	[09:54]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:06; mircea_popescu: in other news - it still remains likely that this summer will see a bevy of various hardforks on offer. practically speaking, trb can offer either its own candidate, which takes a lot of work, or else sit tight and we'll follow the more intelligent of the avaialble offerings, which takes less work but also implies a lot of risk - experience to date shows that there's precious little i	[09:54]
asciilifeform	aha.	[09:54]
asciilifeform	it melted my brain that he even half-seriously hinted at the possibility of such a thing.	[09:54]
danielpbarron	oh, ew	[09:54]
shinohai	mircea_popescu is under stress lately perhaps and needs a nice lsd trip to put things in perspective :D	[09:55]
asciilifeform	shinohai: possibly he thought this also, and ate some ? and during it, suggested prb ...?	[09:56]
*	danielpbarron once had a 'vial' of the stuff; used it to put drops on sugar cubes, eat and go for bike ride in the summer	[09:56]
*	asciilifeform doesn't expect to get to eat lsd in his natural lifespam, just as doesn't expect a real tailored suit or to sail on a dirigible	[09:57]
shinohai	lsd usually inspires clarity of thought and creativity tho.	[09:57]
danielpbarron	still had a little left for my great purge when i burned the contents of my drug box as well as some eastern philosophy texts and my karate uniform	[09:57]
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shinohai	Heh I forgot I have mebbe 1/2 gram of 25C-nBOMe left xD	[09:58]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428499 << davout you forgot 'making it possible to save again'	[09:59]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:17:49; davout: to me there are exactly two use cases for bitcoin/blockchain	[09:59]
danielpbarron	yeah that's the question.. what to 'divest' into.. old computer parts?	[10:00]
shinohai	That's mainly what I use BTC for - equipment. (When I can actually acquire it!)	[10:00]
danielpbarron	someone set up that sommelier thing already	[10:00]
asciilifeform	i have NO use for btc other than escape glider from my auschwitz	[10:01]
asciilifeform	and this means absolutely NO use for sub-orbital quantity.	[10:01]
asciilifeform	except to 'hodl'.	[10:01]
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danielpbarron	although without a bitcoin i don't have much interest in computer parts anyway, so that's a catch-22	[10:02]
danielpbarron	i had all but given up on computers entirely until i found bitcoin	[10:02]
danielpbarron	for several years even	[10:03]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428562 << it is set up right here.	[10:04]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 13:00:57; danielpbarron: someone set up that sommelier thing already	[10:04]
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danielpbarron	i got that hp workstation you recommened	[10:04]
asciilifeform	i recommended it ?!	[10:04]
asciilifeform	l0l	[10:04]
danielpbarron	you linked some thing on ebay, has amd processer and ecc ram or whatever	[10:04]
asciilifeform	aha but i didn't buy it!	[10:05]
asciilifeform	i don't buy whole computer (other than portables, for restricted uses)	[10:05]
asciilifeform	and don't recommend to others to do it!	[10:05]
asciilifeform	notice how mircea_popescu pointedly also doesn't ?	[10:05]
asciilifeform	but re: the sommelier thing, i would happily supply folks with sane hardware, but this would 1) take serious time & effort while 2) wouldn't pay my billz	[10:06]
asciilifeform	so it ain't happening.	[10:06]
asciilifeform	just liek many other things, won't be happening.	[10:06]
asciilifeform	i am having to work 14-18 hrs/day (including slavemine) just to make some of these not-happenings possibly happen.	[10:06]
danielpbarron	how much do you need for this year off to build sane trb ? maybe we can crowdfund it	[10:08]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: i'd have to spend half of that year looking for next work.	[10:08]
asciilifeform	and half of what remains, as usg tax	[10:08]
danielpbarron	next work is maintaining said trb	[10:08]
asciilifeform	also on loose change from folks' sofa cushions ?!	[10:08]
asciilifeform	l0l	[10:08]
danielpbarron	well i got nothing else to spend my stupid btc on	[10:09]
asciilifeform	'crowdfundings', as i understand, have worked for mass crapolade	[10:10]
asciilifeform	but that is pointedly not what we have here.	[10:11]
asciilifeform	the 'reddit appeal' of what we do is ~0, and this is PROPER, and it is in many ways a barometer of doing The Right Thing	[10:11]
davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428526 <<< have to disagree here, bitcoin had value to me sometime in 2010, the minute i finished the white-paper	[10:11]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:41:33; asciilifeform: i was willing to deal with the cpp miseryu of trb because 1) it pre-dates bitcoin being valuable 2) it was - and remains - the schelling point, 'father's pistols'	[10:11]
asciilifeform	davout: value to me also.	[10:11]
asciilifeform	but i was speaking of value to usg looters.	[10:12]
asciilifeform	who have a five-minute attention span and atrocious tunnel vision, and need ~immediates~	[10:12]
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davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428558 <<< true, all these points neatly coalesce into "actually being money" anyway	[10:17]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:59:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428499 << davout you forgot 'making it possible to save again'	[10:17]
danielpbarron	asciilifeform> the 'reddit appeal' of what we do << i didn't mean reaching out any further than in this very channel	[10:18]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: mircea_popescu believes (and i'm not convinced that he's wrong) that hiring people lowers them into pederasty. and he's the ~only fella with money here. so then.	[10:20]
danielpbarron	i have some	[10:20]
asciilifeform	we're talking about ~= 1/2m u.s. here.	[10:21]
danielpbarron	20 people with 25k	[10:21]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron must have eaten that last vial of lsd! i sincerely wish him a good trip. but now i gotta go and start the engine and ride to the place where i sit on a stake for most every day.	[10:22]
*	asciilifeform bbl.	[10:22]
shinohai	Speaking of stakes, I wonder how BingoBoingo impalement project is coming.	[10:30]
punkman	you need $500k a year ?!	[10:30]
punkman	anyway, doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag. who knows maybe the satoshi hoard might move this year.	[10:36]
davout	punkman: unless these particular inputs are blacklisted by the Chinese Cartel(TM)	[10:39]
danielpbarron	is it funny?	[10:39]
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thestringpuller	asciilifeform: "Pederasty is an ancient Greek form of interaction in which members of the same sex would partake in the pleasures of an intellectual and/or sexual relationship as part of a socially acceptable ancient custom " << uh ok...	[10:50]
thestringpuller	"a (usually erotic) homosexual relationship between an adult male and a pubescent or adolescent male. "	[10:51]
jurov	drat. so far i failed to observe it with people that i hired	[10:55]
*	danielpbarron stabs nubbins`	[10:57]
danielpbarron	that's a violation of the rules you like to cite so much	[10:57]
danielpbarron	>> On the other hand professional also implies that you understand how context works, and will never ever under any circumstances omit relevant context when quoting, especially when such omission changes the meaning of your quote and the quoted then has to point this out to you like you were some sort of politician or assimilated retard.	[10:58]
jurov	nubbins`: i take it you're stabbing/hugging each other in the pederasty context	[11:00]
danielpbarron	l0l	[11:00]
danielpbarron	at least i'm not the catamite in that case	[11:00]
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davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428614 <<< kek	[11:02]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 13:55:25; jurov: drat. so far i failed to observe it with people that i hired	[11:02]
danielpbarron	what work did you do for the Ministry of Games?	[11:04]
danielpbarron	be specific? was it artwork or something?	[11:05]
punkman	is "lower someone into pederasty" a russian thing? the phrase never made much sense to me	[11:05]
danielpbarron	ah, so i've yet to see your work	[11:06]
danielpbarron	i thought maybe you designed the item images or something	[11:06]
danielpbarron	wasn't implying advanced vs basic	[11:07]
assbot	Logged on 11-09-2013 13:46:32; nubbins`: sneak peek of a concept sketch for the Eulora heraldics: http://imgur.com/Rx0KQDZ	[11:08]
thestringpuller	did those ever get used in game?	[11:09]
danielpbarron	not yet	[11:10]
danielpbarron	no death yet, so no marriage	[11:10]
thestringpuller	placing art in that game is a PITA. the planeshift engine (on top of cs) comes with 0 middleware.	[11:10]
assbot	Logged on 17-10-2013 13:29:36; nubbins`: heraldry look OK?	[11:11]
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danielpbarron	who is Pascale Horan ?	[11:16]
thestringpuller	Turning Planeshift + Crystalspace into Unity is like turning Bitcoin into Visa, so I don't think it should be a job for anyone.	[11:18]
danielpbarron	oh, in the context from which I found it, she was called 'he'	[11:20]
danielpbarron	or rather, 'his'	[11:20]
jurov	thestringpuller what do you mean, turning them into unity?	[11:27]
jurov	the problem is in opposite direction, to untangle them	[11:28]
jurov	i have not looked to doing art, only to network (de)serialization in order for lisp to be able to send and receive messages	[11:29]
jurov	ended up with horrible hack whereby in the process of deserialization the values are clandestinely pushed into lisp list...	[11:31]
jurov	serialization was not possible this way, fortunately client needs to send only dozen types of messages	[11:31]
jurov	i was thinking about it as potential learning practice for trb... but such things would make alf shit girder beams	[11:33]
thestringpuller	jurov: not that I'm a huge fan of unity, but after playing Kerbal Space Program you have to give it a little credit. What it does have is a large layer of middleware which allows for much better asset management. Whereas in Planeshift + Crystalspace it's all handled in essentially a textfile...	[11:41]
diana_coman	what's wrong with a textfile per se thestringpuller ?	[11:47]
danielpbarron	aha! example of wife and husband sharing same key! one flesh, one key! >> http://trilema.com/2013/15th-blown-other-statements/#comment-93968	[11:49]
assbot	15th blown, other statements. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QJIACU )	[11:49]
diana_coman	re asciilifeform's meaning of pederasty in this context, I use his previous explanation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-02-2016#1416802	[12:01]
assbot	Logged on 27-02-2016 19:14:30; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other end of pederasty	[12:01]
punkman	diana_coman: ah I missed that somehow	[12:02]
punkman	diana_coman: are you having ideas about getting rid of planeshift yet?	[12:03]
diana_coman	depends on what you mean by "ideas" (i.e. desires in that direction plenty) and by getting rid of planeshift (code is already quite far - in a good sense - from original planeshift and yes, I absolutely want to take it further away)	[12:04]
punkman	right	[12:05]
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thestringpuller	diana_coman: it's a textfile that has no middleware for artist to import assets into the engine. you have to either write it yourself or place the geometry in their yourself. It's 2016 not 1993.	[12:08]
thestringpuller	Take Source for instance. You open up hammer, import your geometry (as a map), press play and Half Life loads with your assets.	[12:09]
punkman	the whole game interface was a pain for me. I'd give it another go when that changes.	[12:10]
diana_coman	uhm, thestringpuller I'll certainly have to study that, so I'll possibly get back to you on this then	[12:11]
diana_coman	punkman, what do you mean exactly?	[12:11]
mircea_popescu	punkman well, maybe wehen jurov releases the slime client :D	[12:15]
punkman	diana_coman: i just hated everything about it. moving/finding things in inventory, trying to equip things and and ending up with phantom copies if I didn't click just right. Trying to walk and floating at a 45 degree angle, falling to death off smooth hills. The claim sticks that are "points" in space and keys and... I dunno. I suppose some of that might have changed already.	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428491 << guy does have it. "bitcoin" as seen by the prb/social media crowd is 99% solutions looking for a problem by weight.	[12:24]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:05:43; davout: ^guy has it	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	and half of those are built in spaces where provably no problem existsw.	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428498 << they do, but don't wish to say.	[12:25]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:17:07; fluffypony: most people building crap on top of "a blockchain" have no idea why they're doing so	[12:25]
mircea_popescu	why do you suppose wanna-be singer/waitress sends demos with britney spears' stuff rather than actual music ? "this is fashionable, maybe some rubs off on me!"	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428522 << don't make me guess, supposed to be a strategy discussion!	[12:28]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	and note that i include (continue with current bitcoin) in the same (intelligence outside the wot) pile. which it is.	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.	[12:31]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:48:50; asciilifeform: so if you lot end up surrendering, i will simply have to add 'bitcoin replacement' to my already tall pile of 'redo computing' pyramid, slowly grind it in my mostly nonexisting spare time, and wait another 20 years to find a new set of sane people, if i live that long.	[12:31]
asciilifeform	pointedly not the same.	[12:32]
asciilifeform	like bones pre- vs post- h-bomb strontium.	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	1 is, the perfect bitcoin. which, logically, would NOT conserve coinbases. as such, it has no meaningful humantime continuity with the present Bitcoin, and so it can be done at any point etc.	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	2. is the usable interim continuation of the bitcoin prototype. which, obviously, doesn't HAVE TO exist at all points to 1, but it may help if it does. we're here mostly discussing 2, i think.	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform there's no proof you can produce for this strontium assertion.	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	note that hearn and gavin were "there" since year 2.	[12:33]
asciilifeform	it is axiomatic.	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	it was axiomatic.	[12:33]
asciilifeform	they were ~there~ but not effectual.	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	yeahwell..	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	the code looks pretty shitty...	[12:34]
mircea_popescu	in any case : while a hierarchy could perhaps be constructed in the "not in wot" pile, as you propose or otherwise,	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	this doesn't put satoshi in your wot, still.	[12:35]
asciilifeform	right	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	so in this sense, your objections as stated don't cut anything.	[12:35]
asciilifeform	but there were reasons why i was willing to operate on his crud.	[12:36]
asciilifeform	which will NEVER apply to gavin & co.	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	most of the crud you operate on was written by gavin & co.	[12:36]
asciilifeform	and i strip it away.	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	right.	[12:37]
asciilifeform	and intend to strip ALL of it.	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	you ever seen what bitcoin 0.2 was like ?	[12:37]
asciilifeform	yes.	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	right.	[12:37]
asciilifeform	but this discussion is NOT only about code.	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	go on	[12:37]
asciilifeform	a usg fork exists to enrich usg. and i will have NO part in it.	[12:38]
asciilifeform	and give NO quarter to satan.	[12:38]
mircea_popescu	looky here, maybe i'm not communicating well.	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	currently, there exists bitcoin. while this is soupier than we'd like and perhaps the collapsed eigenstate is slowly vibrating away into an undecided cloud, nevertheless, for the sake of discussion, let's say.	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	tomorrow, there will be : 1) mit-hardfork, run by gavin and whatever anand prakashen they can find.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	2) a vc-hardfork, run by whatever's left of prb	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	3) a miner-fork, run by whatever that fat dumb fuck can hire on freelancer.com	[12:41]
asciilifeform	and where did trb go ?	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	4) to perhaps 12 or whatever, hardforks run by various nuts.	[12:41]
asciilifeform	martians stole it ?	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	at this juncture, tmsr must make the decision if it will continue strictly with trb, or ALSO offer a tmsr fork of trb.	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	in any case trb isn't going anywhere, nor need it go anywhere.	[12:41]
asciilifeform	i'm fine with 'also'	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	but you should note, that there is no good reason to consider current trb so much different from cases 1-3.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	but i did say what i WON'T, under any circumstance whatsoever, be part of.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	and it is NOT the same.	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	you gotta be specific. what it, same with what ?	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	eliding the complements makes this discussion dangerous, both to us and to the future.	[12:43]
asciilifeform	l0l i'm getting ~50 baud here	[12:43]
asciilifeform	i will NOT be complicit in a reallocation of chainvalue to the enemy.	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	there is a very specific danger which you perhaps are not seeing. if indeed we continu with trb as is, and if indeed 3) happens, as these two share pow and we don't control .7 or so exahash we become extremelty vulnerable. recall the fate of altcoin ?	[12:45]
asciilifeform	NOR permit his dirty hands to further rape bitcoin src.	[12:45]
asciilifeform	yes.	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	so in this sense, "trb as is only" opens us up to being forced, later on, to pick among the idiots.	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	which is the meaning ofwhat i said.	[12:45]
asciilifeform	but it will mean that bitcoin died, perhaps to be reborn in~our~ planet	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	perhaps or perhaps. looky, strategy discussions are about strategy.	[12:46]
asciilifeform	but i will not spread legs for the nazis.	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	ever seen black book movie ?	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	chick's hawt.	[12:46]
asciilifeform	would rather eat nagan.	[12:46]
asciilifeform	surrender is not a strategy.	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	lol tell that to stalin!	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	anyway - what isn't a strategy is "if the bad thing happens i'll get really butthurt".	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	strategy gotta be about action not feeling.	[12:47]
asciilifeform	stalin - understood.	[12:48]
asciilifeform	the set of available actions is small, and, i think, well-enumerated at this point.	[12:48]
asciilifeform	if trb gets chainclobbered - it is 2009 again for us.	[12:50]
asciilifeform	but i will not fellate the invader.	[12:50]
mircea_popescu	so you propose to basically wait and see ?	[12:53]
asciilifeform	no.	[12:53]
asciilifeform	i will maintain trb, while 1,001 things incl. writing mine.	[12:54]
asciilifeform	but at my pace it will take 20y.	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	so basically you propose - wait and see on trb, meanwhile i'll also develop a fork variant which i won't either share or have ready in time ?	[12:54]
asciilifeform	archaeologists will, possibly, find it.	[12:54]
asciilifeform	what did mircea_popescu expect me to suggest?	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	i do not expect anything, this is why this is a discussion.	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	whatever your position is, it may be, but it gotta be explicit so everyone can build on it.	[12:55]
asciilifeform	so here it is.	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	alright.	[12:55]
asciilifeform	and i will not spread arse for invader, and am not open to persuasion re same, hopefully this needs no further elucidation	[12:57]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428545 << i'm not suggesting anything. i'm saying, plainly, that AT LEAST ONCE in the past, you sucked a cock, which is how you are on THIS blockchain. so the argument "i'm no whore" holds no water. you WILL suck others in the future - best make sure they're ours.	[12:58]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:53:52; asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mircea_popescu ! unless i misunderstood him somehow.	[12:58]
asciilifeform	well, old cock was gnat-sized.	[12:58]
asciilifeform	new - t. rex	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	hey. i have no artgument there.	[12:59]
asciilifeform	see the schelling point thread.	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	understand that if there's a summer of crazy, a NEW schelling will emerge.	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	i don't see the future well enough to judge what chances we have, but i do see the future well enough to see that if you have no horse in a race, you can't win it.	[13:00]
asciilifeform	it is like saying 'you conceded in a game of chess when you were 5, why not concede your father's house'	[13:00]
asciilifeform	but yes, i would like to have the horse.	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428549 << could we for maybe 5 minutes stop with this "panic at everything mp says" i'm starting to feel like a fucking divinity or something.	[13:01]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:54:35; asciilifeform: it melted my brain that he even half-seriously hinted at the possibility of such a thing.	[13:01]
asciilifeform	i never panic.	[13:02]
asciilifeform	had that muscle removed (tm)	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	yeah well, it reads like it. anyway.	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428554 << ahahaha natural lifespam, im bashing this.	[13:03]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:57:10; *: asciilifeform doesn't expect to get to eat lsd in his natural lifespam, just as doesn't expect a real tailored suit or to sail on a dirigible	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428552 << aw dude wtf. link!	[13:05]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:56:07; asciilifeform: shinohai: possibly he thought this also, and ate some ? and during it, suggested prb ...?	[13:05]
asciilifeform	the 1,2,3,might have to choose thing	[13:07]
mircea_popescu	and you don't see how jumping from that to this is exactly panic ?	[13:08]
asciilifeform	nope?	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	what can i say!	[13:08]
asciilifeform	anyway i did not jump, assumed lsd.	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	things are happening with or without permission, as a general rule. either you're prepared for the possible outcomes, or not.	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	i'd rather we be prepared, if possible, and i pointedly not care how unpleasant a discussion may be to anyone's/everyone's favourite assumptions. so here we are.	[13:09]
asciilifeform	i prepare for many things. but i also use everett's device. so i do not prepare for surrender and cocksucking ignominy.	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	specifically : if miners come up with fork, what are you going to do ? so far all i hear is "blame de gods".	[13:10]
shinohai	Discussion boosts morale.	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	"de gods" are not there for you to blame.	[13:10]
asciilifeform	work for 20 y or until dead to kill them all.	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	too many chuck norris movies or something, srsly now.	[13:11]
asciilifeform	no, that's more or less my whole adult life to date.	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	did the separation discussed in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428706 connect, at all ?	[13:11]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 15:31:37; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428537 << there are two important questions that are readily separable, here.	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	yes, sure, we'll be sooner or later coming out with the perfect bitcoin, or die trying.	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	what of this prototype one!	[13:12]
asciilifeform	it, as i said before, is our shipwreck plank.	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	not in statements of fact, we're not painting a still life here. what do!	[13:13]
asciilifeform	i think i explained what i personally intend to do.	[13:14]
asciilifeform	how ~much~ of it i get to do before dead, i cannot now say.	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	you realise what you're saying is basically, that ~you~ are taking off.	[13:15]
asciilifeform	if the alternative ever consists wholly of surrender- then yes.	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	sigh.	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	wouldja try and engage what's actually on the table rather than what's in the noggin ?	[13:16]
asciilifeform	не шагу назад (tm) (r)	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	jesus shit's hard.	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428592 << quite.	[13:18]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 13:11:28; asciilifeform: the 'reddit appeal' of what we do is ~0, and this is PROPER, and it is in many ways a barometer of doing The Right Thing	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	in general, when your preteen's sister's friends start taking an interest in your party, you're lame.	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428590 << i know of no case where "crowdfunding" worked, in any sensible definition.	[13:18]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 13:11:00; asciilifeform: 'crowdfundings', as i understand, have worked for mass crapolade	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	yes there are some cases where it has redistributed some dollars. in this sense, the numbers racket as practiced between the same poor black marginals 50 years ago also "worked".	[13:19]
asciilifeform	as i said to the lsd folks, if i were free man, there would be a solid weapon in 1/2y - 1y. BUT this is a flight to alpha centauri, because i am NOT a free man.	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the ideas of a not free man about what freedom'd do to him are null and void.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	how would you know ?	[13:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu , who IS free man, can sit down & write mpcoin.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	if there could be solid weapon in 1/2-1y, you would have long ago been free man. that you aren't makes the proposition rather dubious.	[13:21]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: well i know what a cage is, and that i live in one.	[13:21]
asciilifeform	am posting from it now.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	ok, now know the other part of this.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	it's a whole not a half.	[13:22]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 1/2 y of FULL time.	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	the discussion is a whole not a half. yes we both understand one half of it. now you understand the other half of it.	[13:23]
asciilifeform	but i don't have enough lsd to do that thread again.	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	mkay.	[13:23]
asciilifeform	but as it stands i have about 1/10th of my strength to give.	[13:24]
shinohai	Here you go asciilifeform - arrange a stupid conference and charge a coupla grand to get a foldup chair in the nearest Best Western. http://www.coindesk.com/events/consensus-2016/register/	[13:24]
assbot	Consensus 2016 - Register Your Ticket Today ... ( http://bit.ly/1U58F1N )	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428609 << doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag in the ~same sense it didn't hurt to come up with a specific named rotschild, which then didn't count.	[13:24]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 13:36:51; punkman: anyway, doesn't hurt to come up with a pricetag. who knows maybe the satoshi hoard might move this year.	[13:24]
asciilifeform	i gave pricetag!	[13:25]
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asciilifeform	but what diff does it make.	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	i do not trust it at all. i'm not sure you understand this, but AT ALL.	[13:25]
asciilifeform	it is accurate.	[13:25]
asciilifeform	price of not having to look for work for a year, hypothetically.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	it goes, for me, in the same pile as xmas cardano, phuctor two weeks ago, and wahtever the fuck her name was,	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-08-2015#1244694	[13:26]
assbot	Logged on 20-08-2015 00:01:57; asciilifeform: 'Élisabeth de Rothschild (née de Chambure; a.k.a. Lili; March 9, 1902 - March 23, 1945) was a member by marriage of the wine-making branch of the Rothschild family.'	[13:26]
asciilifeform	someone asked for this number? i gave.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	they are the things you say to protect from change, or w/e.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	sure, you gave.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	moving on.	[13:26]
*	asciilifeform does not like to waste bandwidth but generally answers folks when they ask things.	[13:28]
danielpbarron	what is a free man in asciilifeform terms? do I qualify by being someone who only needs to work full time for one season out of the year?	[13:28]
kakobrekla	"needs to" is key here.	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	i can readily see a definition of freedom as "one has enough resources to protect himself from the outside world". this definition is impractical, however, belonging to the sphere chicken world.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	but hey, as a heuristic, works fine.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	by this logic, the gardener who is free needs a garden, but the movie director who is free needs his own studio. the cost of their respective freedoms, many degrees of magnitude apart.	[13:31]
asciilifeform	i dun need a studio.	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	i was talking in the general!	[13:32]
asciilifeform	but do need a fair bit of floor space	[13:32]
asciilifeform	and quiet.	[13:32]
asciilifeform	and nonrecycled food	[13:32]
asciilifeform	and my library.	[13:32]
asciilifeform	i think this sums it all.	[13:32]
danielpbarron	what kind of floor space?	[13:32]
kakobrekla	with a roof i imagine	[13:33]
asciilifeform	climate-controlled.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	lol	[13:33]
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PeterL	asciilifeform around here you could fill you list for about 20k usd per year	[13:36]
asciilifeform	no.	[13:37]
PeterL	no?	[13:37]
danielpbarron	and all the lead you could want!	[13:37]
asciilifeform	where PeterL lives? mongolia?	[13:37]
PeterL	michigan	[13:37]
PeterL	only flint has lead in water, the rest of the state has great water	[13:38]
asciilifeform	ick	[13:38]
PeterL	rent a 1600 sqft single family home for about 1000 usd/mo	[13:38]
PeterL	just saying	[13:39]
asciilifeform	and eat roomtemp-stable cheese? fuck that	[13:39]
PeterL	we have cheese here too	[13:39]
asciilifeform	roquefort is not any cheaper in mi than md.	[13:39]
PeterL	how much money do you spend on cheese a month?	[13:41]
asciilifeform	discussion involving 'downshifting' is waste of my time and of everybody else's.	[13:41]
PeterL	I'm not saying downshift, just get out of the land of outrageous rents!	[13:42]
asciilifeform	health is still ~1k/mo.	[13:42]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> ick << what, this is an argument now ?	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	uhaul will take half a btc to haul your library.	[13:45]
asciilifeform	but this is not a very interesting discussion. would you have it with, e.g., your lawyer?! ask him what pieces of furniture he could do without, so as to charge less?!!	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	i have a lawyer whose yearly budget for family is ~8k.	[13:46]
PeterL	health is still ~1k/mo. << you just added another thing to the list, now we are up to 32k, still nowhere near 500k	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	he is a very good lawyer, and a hardworking fellow too.	[13:46]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i hauled it 3km in 2014 with own hands and spent more on ~petrol~.	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	also, health at 1k a month is RIDICULOUS. pretty much all over the world, cancer treatment runs you 1k/mo.	[13:46]
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asciilifeform	WORLD	[13:47]
asciilifeform	i'm a subject of hitler.	[13:47]
PeterL	That is about what my in-laws pay, and they are on daily medications and recovering from extensive surgery/cancer treatment	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that's an interesting datapoint, because 100 gallons of gas provide enough energy to haul 100 * 1.2 * 10^8 / 3000 = 4 tons of stuff	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	3 km VERTICALLY.	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	so you're on the space station now, with your 4ton, ie, 200k volume library ?	[13:48]
danielpbarron	asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i hauled it 3km in 2014 with own hands and spent more on ~petrol~. << gas was twice as expensive then as it is now	[13:49]
asciilifeform	aha but i hauled 4 ton through city traffic. about same joules...	[13:49]
asciilifeform	and yes, it was pre-iran	[13:49]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428905 << why not try & persuade him to move to botswana and eat some of his children so he can charge 1k.	[13:51]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 16:46:21; mircea_popescu: i have a lawyer whose yearly budget for family is ~8k.	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	he is actually in one of those god forsaken places, doesn't matter which.	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	where he lives, that's middle class.	[13:53]
asciilifeform	so clearly mircea_popescu is paying him too much !11	[13:54]
asciilifeform	if middle-class.	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	not the line contemplated here.	[13:54]
asciilifeform	next take your diesel generator and persuade it to run on water.	[13:54]
asciilifeform	or at least see how much water it can eat..	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	looky, lashing at me is not liable to do much. the point remains that this "i could do except alas" line is a total waste of time and utterly broken in so many parts it's not worth fixing.	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	so can we lay it to rest and move on ?	[13:55]
asciilifeform	thread was not answer to mircea_popescu, who i think gets it, but earlier folks.	[13:55]
asciilifeform	and mircea_popescu is entirely welcome to answer 'you SAY you could do X if you were free, but i know that you're a tard! so you could not POSSIBLY do X!11 haha' and i will be powerless to prove him wrong.	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	i'm not even saying that, nor is it even needed. even if you ~could~ actually, provavly, known from my personal discussion with the all-knowing god, do it, what the fuck sort of arrangement is this, "so b-a exists so that alf can fix it" ? how is it better than you know, hiring microsoft to do it.	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	if you die one day what then ? etc.	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	so no, broken in too many places to be worth contemplating.	[13:59]
asciilifeform	ok then birth five spare alfs if you need them for all time.	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	this is what we're trying for here : a) birth alfs ; b) continuously.	[13:59]
asciilifeform	or write the motherfucking code yourself, why not	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	ideally they'd all be different	[13:59]
asciilifeform	i'll read and test it , i promise.	[14:00]
danielpbarron	how to start writing ADA on sane gentoo?	[14:00]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: if you have to ask...	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron iirc he published a gentoo mask few days back	[14:00]
asciilifeform	this is why i say that presently we have 1.	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	course... meanwhile things happened, might not work anymopre.	[14:00]
asciilifeform	and at some point my health will give out and we will have 0.	[14:00]
asciilifeform	and mircea_popescu will ahve to write code himself.	[14:01]
danielpbarron	yeah the sane gentoo part i can figure out no problem. just never coded in ADA before	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	there was a manual floating about, lesseee	[14:01]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: i never did either, before we began.	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	!search ada manual	[14:01]
assbot	6 results for 'ada manual' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manual	[14:01]
danielpbarron	i have the manual even	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	!s ada manul	[14:01]
assbot	0 results for 'ada manul' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manul	[14:01]
danielpbarron	on dead tree	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	darn.	[14:01]
asciilifeform	Pet The Manul. (tm) (r)	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	ok so then start with the examples i guess ?	[14:01]
asciilifeform	i wish this were not so, but so far afaik the set of folks who understand everything from galois theory to O(..) runtimes to sdram bus timings includes 1) mircea_popescu 2) asciilifeform .	[14:03]
mircea_popescu	the world is not a picture, alf. the world is a moving thing. let people be wouldja!	[14:03]
*	asciilifeform lets.	[14:03]
asciilifeform	and so far we have... what we have.	[14:04]
mircea_popescu	all the things that there are can in principle be understood, or as the old jew said (in fiddler on the roof) - there is a blessing for everything.	[14:04]
asciilifeform	in principle.	[14:04]
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asciilifeform	in practice i'm stuck doing pretty much 100% of the ab-initio b-a stuff.	[14:05]
asciilifeform	(YES i appreciate folks testing, cleaning up, etc. ! don't feel sad !)	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	well, either that or screaming at all teh folk who try things.	[14:05]
asciilifeform	and i appreciate mircea_popescu firing death rays at the enemy !	[14:05]
asciilifeform	from his dirigible fleet.	[14:05]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: ever seen black book movie ? << Brittany Murphy is hot? ~_~	[14:06]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if i did not scream, we'd prolly be struggling with some 'golang' prb horror now.	[14:06]
asciilifeform	or java.	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller http://trilema.com/2016/black-book/#selection-63.45-63.87	[14:07]
assbot	Black Book on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UilLYd )	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform orly ?	[14:07]
asciilifeform	i've spend my counterfactual-juice for the day	[14:07]
asciilifeform	*spent	[14:07]
asciilifeform	so nfi.	[14:07]
asciilifeform	gotta go get moar.	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	anyway, why are you so hurt by all this stuff ?	[14:07]
asciilifeform	well, aside from the motherland burning and my being powerless to do anything about it on account of sitting on a sharpened telephone pole, i'm having a marvelous day !11	[14:08]
thestringpuller	ah I was thinking of little black book. was thoroughly confoosed.	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i can see that angle :)	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller the incredible insanity of naming a girl carice. carici being one of the numerous ways you can say cunt in romanian.	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	so Cunts van Houten!	[14:10]
asciilifeform	hey, englishers call gurlz 'kitty'	[14:10]
asciilifeform	which is not too far off.	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	i guess so	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	anyway, she's great in that film, warmly recommended - not just to watch, but also to get one of your own.	[14:12]
asciilifeform	holy shit	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428674 < yeah, "turning into unity" or anything alike is not happening. contrary to what alf may think, i'm not about to java-ify things.	[14:13]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 14:28:06; jurov: the problem is in opposite direction, to untangle them	[14:13]
asciilifeform	eerom has an an2135sc by cypress	[14:14]
asciilifeform	which... is COMPATIBLE with ezusb !?!?! >>. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428437	[14:14]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 04:16:24; assbot: Loper OS » Cypress EZ-Host Firmware Development Under Linux. ... ( http://bit.ly/1p9qDDf )	[14:14]
mircea_popescu	nb.	[14:14]
asciilifeform	that i reversed in 2012 ?!	[14:14]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428686 << pretty much all engineering since 2014 consisted of washing that crud off.	[14:15]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 15:03:34; punkman: diana_coman: are you having ideas about getting rid of planeshift yet?	[14:15]
*	asciilifeform could easily sanitize the thing, if .... etc.	[14:29]
asciilifeform	hell, rotorize.	[14:29]
asciilifeform	in fact, you don't need me for this any moar, can do yourself.	[14:29]
asciilifeform	i demonstrated how.	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	lol	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	in other news, phuctor server paid for yet another month.	[14:29]
asciilifeform	ty mircea_popescu . and my offer to cover it with own blood - stands.	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	yaya. i'm all about to encourage ~that~ sort of insanity.	[14:31]
asciilifeform	(re: earlier, i case anyone thinks that winblowz is 'too hard', i have win8 kernel drivers built with GCC and ~zero microshit code~)	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	static linked ?	[14:32]
asciilifeform	in the sense of not invoking dll loader at any point - YES.	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	nb.	[14:32]
asciilifeform	fwiw.	[14:33]
asciilifeform	ditto userland.	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	and in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3i8a1coqd1r7us0jo1_1280.jpg	[14:45]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1U5f6Su )	[14:45]
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asciilifeform	https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march << mega-commentz lulz.	[14:48]
assbot	BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No \| closed 1 day 17 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )	[14:48]
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*	asciilifeform would be quite stimulated to learn who was responsible for the ~30 btc flurry of 'yes' bets in the 12 hrs or so before the game	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	"No kidding. What a scam this site is. I suppose they're planning on people not really reading the FAQ. I mean it calculates the odds for you and says 1 pays 1 but that's a LIE."	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck are these idiots on about ?!	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	"The fee should also probably be taken out of profit only, not the total bet."	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	herp.	[14:51]
asciilifeform	covered in shit from walking through heathen world, and they never wash, so still smell it	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	how about the fee gets taken out of mps fortune, and losers are refunded for good measure.	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	motherfucker....	[14:51]
asciilifeform	much as i would like to prove some variety of shenanigans re: this bet, i cannot.	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5794 << this ia actually a pretty intelligent comment	[14:55]
assbot	BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No \| closed 1 day 17 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1U5fPD4 )	[14:55]
asciilifeform	aha, linked strictly for it	[14:56]
mircea_popescu	anyway, thanks god for kakobrekla's idea of implementing that calculator on site, otherwise with bets like these that draw loads of noobs (i don't mean to bitrcoin, or to betting, i mean to thinking) we'd have had degrees of magnitude more idiotic spew.	[14:56]
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asciilifeform	but at any rate i would not be surprised if one day i learn that lee sedol was told by a little bird that if he wins he will have an accident like go seigen in '61	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	money is a better play.	[14:59]
asciilifeform	(well, no, i will be surprised ~if i learn~, but not ~that it happened~)	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	"win, either way, 1mn or 10, your call"	[14:59]
asciilifeform	or that.	[14:59]
asciilifeform	thing is, money is not much of a motivator to pro go players	[14:59]
asciilifeform	they want ~to play~	[15:00]
mircea_popescu	or maybe have other theorems to prove.	[15:01]
asciilifeform	(and to exist in the conditions where playing is a thing, for which the money is. but the money is strictly secondary.)	[15:01]
asciilifeform	very few pro go folks have other theorems, they start at 5 y.o.	[15:01]
asciilifeform	think ballet.	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	this is not much of a criteria.	[15:02]
*	mircea_popescu spent years hunting @ballet school. they do have other theorems.	[15:02]
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asciilifeform	they'd better, given that they burn out at, what, 19	[15:02]
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mircea_popescu	anyway. konspiraci isn't, on reflection and review, much of a persuasive explanation here.	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	computer plays like a shoe - true, but not just any shoe.	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	the same thing exists in bridge, the stickler old lady.	[15:06]
asciilifeform	bulldozer, in the end, always wins	[15:07]
mircea_popescu	usually makes a 3rd to 5th in singles tourneys or else somewhere 4-10th in teams. because her quarter tricks on minor points still buy a lot.	[15:07]
asciilifeform	it will still be a few yrs. before it becomes impossible to play on the net.	[15:07]
asciilifeform	or so thinks my brother, who for ~20yrs has cared for very little other than go.	[15:08]
asciilifeform	( he went, so to speak, perelman, some time ago. )	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	tsk.	[15:09]
mircea_popescu	sorry for his loss.	[15:09]
asciilifeform	eh he knew it would not live forever.	[15:09]
asciilifeform	is not a fool.	[15:09]
mircea_popescu	hey, is this the fellow that used to game program ?	[15:10]
asciilifeform	aha	[15:10]
asciilifeform	i only got 1 brother.	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	well if he wqants to go perelman all over eulora... something could perhaps be arranged.	[15:10]
asciilifeform	~ mircea_popescu's age.	[15:10]
asciilifeform	l0l mircea_popescu thinks he could afford my brother , ahaha.	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	oh, perelman takes money now ? darn, i should headhunt the original	[15:11]
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asciilifeform	perhaps !	[15:11]
asciilifeform	maybe p even takes payment in the tree bark he eats	[15:11]
asciilifeform	perhaps he'll cough up a cipher for us.	[15:11]
asciilifeform	(incidentally, any mail re: ciphers ??)	[15:12]
PeterL	did mircea_popescu mean program eulora or play eulora?	[15:12]
asciilifeform	PeterL: prolly program ? i don't recall folks having to be paid to ~play~ it?	[15:12]
PeterL	well, S.MG is sitting on how many thousands of btc? surely that would entice anybody if spent	[15:13]
asciilifeform	PeterL: i dun think mircea_popescu believes in spending	[15:14]
asciilifeform	can't blame'im either	[15:14]
asciilifeform	spending suxxx.	[15:14]
asciilifeform	those thousands will buy some very spiffy tshirts when btc goes to penny.	[15:15]
asciilifeform	(though spending will still suck donkey balls then)	[15:16]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428607 << Been raining. Have tree down to straight 5'3" section in ground suitable for art	[15:24]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 13:30:05; shinohai: Speaking of stakes, I wonder how BingoBoingo impalement project is coming.	[15:24]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: he was 'old-school' '90s games man, hand-optimized asm for consoles, 3d engines from scratch, that kinda thing.	[15:24]
asciilifeform	now works on dour industrial control crud.	[15:24]
asciilifeform	but at least doesn't ever have to leave house.	[15:24]
asciilifeform	(the games industry mostly left this part of the world.)	[15:27]
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asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: i will have you know that yours is a very thin tree.	[15:32]
asciilifeform	tepes would never sit a man down on such a stake.	[15:33]
asciilifeform	it'd be over in minutes.	[15:33]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Yes, very thin weedy thing. But it's height had become a concern given it's proximity to the power line.	[15:33]
asciilifeform	(typically, tree was chosen to be ~telephone pole wide. so that victim would have to wait 2-3 days for the bones to spread, or to die of thirst)	[15:34]
asciilifeform	the stake was in ru penal code through the 18th c. so we happen to know a good bit of craft concerning how & what.	[15:35]
asciilifeform	for instance, you don't want splinters on the pole, the condemned bleeds faster.	[15:36]
asciilifeform	the last instance i recall of a formal sentence of impalement was, iirc, in 1740s, and it was commuted at the last minute to beheading	[15:37]
asciilifeform	but historians in the audience are welcome to correct me.	[15:37]
shinohai	How merciful.	[15:37]
BingoBoingo	Aha! I have three trees several times too big then and none the right size. I like the big ones though. Will have to look up primary sources.	[15:37]
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asciilifeform	there is an excellent scene of 16 c. horse-drawn impalement in the pl film 'Ogniem i mieczem' ('with fire and sword').	[15:40]
asciilifeform	four-parter, took, iirc, ~40 years to make !	[15:41]
asciilifeform	longer than 'star wars.'	[15:41]
asciilifeform	mega-film.	[15:41]
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BingoBoingo	there is also locust tree I am not candidate because it likely no longer has a solid core and will likely require its removal to be outsourced.	[15:51]
jurov	mod6 ben_vulpes i have got bitcoin-foundation.info domain, should i toss it too?	[16:07]
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*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[16:19]
funkenstein_	hey, regrind your vpatch and I'll sign it <-- thanks trinque :) trouble is I'm not sure what base to regrind from	[16:20]
funkenstein_	this seems an unsolved problem in how to use V and/or my broken understanding of how to use V	[16:22]
danielpbarron	http://thesixthirty.com/news/chicago-cell-phone-jammer/ >> Although, if I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, how much fun would it be just to ride the L for hours on end with a case of Old Style and a cell phone jammer solely for the purpose of messing with people?	[16:26]
assbot	Wanted: The Chicago Cell Phone Jammer ... ( http://bit.ly/1RC8LrJ )	[16:26]
asciilifeform	rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !	[16:26]
danielpbarron	^^ is now caught, 10k USD bail	[16:26]
danielpbarron	isn't that another "if you have to ask" sorta things?	[16:27]
*	assbot gives voice to trinque	[16:28]
asciilifeform	re: jammer: idiocy	[16:28]
trinque	publish list of mega-b00ks, or go raid whichever university is still teaching math/eng re: alfs	[16:28]
asciilifeform	if yer gonna jam, have 100 of'em, with solar panels, dropped by quadcopter on rooftops.	[16:29]
asciilifeform	take out gsm citywide for a month.	[16:29]
asciilifeform	this is kindergarten-basic.	[16:29]
asciilifeform	trinque: go, raid.	[16:29]
trinque	I was hoping for the reading list!	[16:30]
danielpbarron	http://danielpbarron.com/ascii_book_list.txt	[16:30]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/223ti3i )	[16:30]
asciilifeform	this is mebbe half a shelf.	[16:31]
trinque	here's the thing	[16:31]
trinque	I've heard plenty of reasonable criticism of autodidactism	[16:31]
asciilifeform	i hate to disappoint folks, but i'm .. not made of book	[16:32]
trinque	maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own	[16:32]
asciilifeform	armies is what the other side has.	[16:32]
trinque	for this very reason	[16:32]
asciilifeform	all i can offer is this other kind of force.	[16:33]
asciilifeform	while i have some to give.	[16:33]
asciilifeform	call it what you like.	[16:33]
mod6	jurov: why would you toss it?	[16:35]
jurov	i forgot i registerd it and now it is expiring, asking if you want to add it	[16:35]
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asciilifeform	i actually understand very well why mircea_popescu does not want any of this to EVER become about armies of trainable fungible folks.	[16:36]
mod6	jurov: are you using it for anything at all?	[16:37]
jurov	also, just for lulz, got targeted spam - invite to bid on foundationcoin.com	[16:37]
mod6	heh	[16:37]
asciilifeform	he has a good grip of military craft, and understands that only idiots engage enemy on ~his~ strong turf	[16:37]
jurov	mod6 no, there was promo for .info. so i regged it and forgot	[16:38]
asciilifeform	l0l autogenned spamola	[16:38]
mod6	ah. i think you can let it go. we've got 'thebitcoin.foundation' for at least the next 4 years iirc. (good until 2020), and im not sure about therealbitcoin.com -- i didn't register that one.	[16:38]
jurov	ok	[16:40]
mod6	i guess therealbitcoin.com expires on 22-10-2016	[16:40]
mod6	so whomever may want to renew that one.	[16:40]
jurov	it's me too, i'll keep it for ml	[16:40]
mod6	sweet thank jurov	[16:40]
trinque	asciilifeform: what does asking for a list of books have to do with fungible cogs	[16:40]
trinque	I can see very well that you're not engaging me on the turf I proposed	[16:40]
trinque	:p	[16:41]
trinque	they made this world, and what is the proposal for the other? I suppose engineers and mathematicians will burst from the womb having spent 9 months proving theorems	[16:41]
asciilifeform	trinque: i think i lost the head of the thread?	[16:43]
asciilifeform	list of books for ~what~ ?	[16:43]
trinque	if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.	[16:47]
asciilifeform	the OLD world.	[16:47]
asciilifeform	i fully expect that it will take 100+ yrs of AGGRESSIVE sanity to create the peoplecaliber of 1980 again.	[16:48]
asciilifeform	and 1000 years - 1880.	[16:48]
trinque	what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?	[16:50]
trinque	*essence	[16:50]
asciilifeform	do you recall the thread re: how people born in '90s cannot think worth half a damn ?	[16:51]
asciilifeform	what, you think ~their~ students, ~will~ ??	[16:51]
funkenstein_	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428522 <-- one thing i've learned reading here is that this attitude leads to thermodynamic death / intellectual wasteland more quickly than i had expected	[16:52]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 12:38:38; asciilifeform: while there many be 'intelligence available outside of the wot', it is ~dead to me~	[16:52]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu has several useful articles re: how various unrealities will have to collapse in order for real people to be built again	[16:52]
asciilifeform	but it is not clear to me that those who pick up the pieces will choose to do anything resembling civilization.	[16:53]
asciilifeform	and i could not necessarily persuade them that it is a good idea.	[16:53]
asciilifeform	even if i could speak to them.	[16:53]
funkenstein_	asciilifeform: health is still ~1k/mo. <-- I LOLed	[16:55]
*	trinque wonders which of the ancient conquerors ever sat waiting for power to show up of its own accord, shield and spear in hand	[16:59]
asciilifeform	who said 'wait' ?	[17:00]
asciilifeform	go, do !	[17:00]
trinque	I suppose spartans just sorta emerged	[17:00]
asciilifeform	conquer !	[17:00]
trinque	fell out the womb and of the random shuffling of life, some were spartans	[17:00]
asciilifeform	fix shiva so lispimage persists !	[17:00]
asciilifeform	or are you stuck in womb.	[17:00]
trinque	I have trb dev time today. it does not address the point made about education and its function in a culture	[17:02]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu has the canonical advice, i cannot beat it, have 1000 children, beat'em within a mm of their life, kill the dumbest 9/10th	[17:03]
asciilifeform	what else to say.	[17:04]
trinque	oh I don't know, learning math?	[17:04]
trinque	wtf is this	[17:04]
asciilifeform	teach the survivers, maths.	[17:04]
asciilifeform	hell, they will learn it by themselves	[17:05]
trinque	there are more books on mathematics than could ever possibly be read by one person in one lifetime	[17:05]
asciilifeform	by counting yer bonez	[17:05]
asciilifeform	trinque: everything that is ~actually worth reading~ would fit in a large room.	[17:05]
trinque	no shit huh?	[17:05]
trinque	l0l	[17:05]
asciilifeform	aha.	[17:05]
asciilifeform	this is sad but true.	[17:06]
trinque	this is exactly, entirely my point	[17:06]
trinque	make the room!!!!111!!11!1	[17:06]
funkenstein_	^	[17:06]
asciilifeform	i have about 1/2 of it.	[17:06]
asciilifeform	oh there is a trick	[17:08]
asciilifeform	one of the items in the room is an hdd with half a TB of ru text.	[17:08]
trinque	if you bothered to breed well a 90% failure rate is deplorable	[17:09]
trinque	the whole rest is what information you put in the skulls	[17:09]
asciilifeform	what's the failure rate for making mircea_popescus ?	[17:09]
asciilifeform	and i'm not even a mircea_popescu !	[17:09]
asciilifeform	there's at least two full platoons of asciilifeforms for every mircea_popescu .	[17:10]
funkenstein_	how is blustering idiocy canonical?	[17:16]
funkenstein_	aha	[17:17]
funkenstein_	i guess if it is repeated enough, it is indeed in the canon	[17:18]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: i dunno about your planet, but on mine it is state of the art.	[17:18]
asciilifeform	nubbins` !	[17:18]
asciilifeform	did that tx confirm yet ?!	[17:18]
asciilifeform	yay!	[17:18]
asciilifeform	only took 3 days for somebody to malleat it, huh.	[17:19]
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asciilifeform	it was still in limbo when i woke up.	[17:22]
asciilifeform	i even was starting to think that i'd have to write my own malleatron.	[17:23]
asciilifeform	ftr i still see the high-S thing as a deplorable compromise	[17:24]
asciilifeform	it set a precedent for miner censorship.	[17:24]
asciilifeform	i.e. that the collective of miners CAN exclude certain tx.	[17:24]
asciilifeform	that are VALID BITCOIN.	[17:24]
PeterL	counts as a soft fork?	[17:24]
asciilifeform	it emboldened the fuckers for... what we see now.	[17:25]
funkenstein_	what's that?	[17:28]
asciilifeform	!s a miner problem	[17:28]
assbot	21 results for 'a miner problem' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=a+miner+problem	[17:28]
funkenstein_	can you exclude me from your dinner even though I have a valid mouth?	[17:28]
funkenstein_	not that again lol	[17:28]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: if miners can pick and choose who gets to use bitcoin, like you pick dinner guests, bitcoin is broken.	[17:29]
funkenstein_	they pick and choose what TX to include in a block they mine as always	[17:29]
asciilifeform	ants are welcome to choose which crumb on the floor to eat. BUT it had better be INCONSPICUOUS and they had BETTER stay out of the refrigerator.	[17:29]
funkenstein_	unless they pay the fee ;)	[17:30]
asciilifeform	the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant.	[17:30]
funkenstein_	heh :) well having to pay miners for their service hardly implies something broken to me	[17:31]
asciilifeform	pay, pay.	[17:31]
asciilifeform	i have nfi btw why mircea_popescu sent a 0fee.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	srsly i have nfi, ask him.	[17:32]
funkenstein_	whole thing is none of my business	[17:32]
asciilifeform	maybe he hit the button with his elbow, what.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	none of MY either.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	but for some reason folks keep asking about it.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	and i will say, for last time hopefully, i have nfi !11	[17:32]
funkenstein_	lol anyway asciilifeform, got any comments about how you see patch order established for V users?	[17:33]
asciilifeform	maybe he did it SO FOLKS WOULD ASK!111	[17:34]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: i suggested 'longest chain with sigs S1, S2, ... Sn' earlier.	[17:35]
PeterL	the kitchen, regardless of what ants may think, was NOT built as an ant restaurant. << I dun get it, how does miners not including your txn equate to raiding the kitchen?	[17:36]
asciilifeform	because the ants are not the purpose of the kitchen.	[17:36]
asciilifeform	they are parasites.	[17:36]
asciilifeform	and it anyone knew how to build an antproof kitchen, he ~would~.	[17:36]
funkenstein_	asciilifeform, so if I would like to make/rebase a patch.. i should take the longest chain I have seen as the base of the diff?	[17:37]
asciilifeform	(maybe ants are not the best example, but ~the mold on the cheese~ is. mold is necessary and useful in the RIGHT PLACES)	[17:38]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: longest chain SIGNED BY FOLKS YOU APPROVE OF	[17:38]
PeterL	so if your patch is not included, you have to keep rebasing it every time a new patch is added until it does get included?	[17:39]
asciilifeform	unfortunately yes.	[17:39]
funkenstein_	it seems perhaps a checkpoint might be in order	[17:39]
asciilifeform	we had a brutal but iirc conclusive thread about this	[17:40]
funkenstein_	also if people don't like a patch SN which you have in the base, they will not get to use your patch	[17:40]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2016#1411334 << thread.	[17:42]
assbot	Logged on 20-02-2016 23:42:04; mircea_popescu: you don't "release" a patch.	[17:42]
asciilifeform	where mircea_popescu argues that there being ~any such thing~ as a shared-by-all checkpoint is a Bad Thing	[17:43]
asciilifeform	and leads to prb.	[17:43]
funkenstein_	this implies there is also no "included"	[17:45]
asciilifeform	yes.	[17:45]
asciilifeform	theer is only 'included by YOU'	[17:45]
asciilifeform	in YOUR tree	[17:45]
asciilifeform	which others can CHOOSE to pollinate from.	[17:45]
asciilifeform	this is key.	[17:45]
funkenstein_	aha	[17:45]
funkenstein_	so when trinque asks me to regrind, perhaps I should ask him for his tree	[17:46]
asciilifeform	it took me a week of ??? and radiating high-energy frustratrons at mircea_popescu to fully grasp this point.	[17:46]
asciilifeform	also 'regrind' is familiar in the heathen world under the name 'merge'	[17:47]
asciilifeform	we have NO auto-merge for a REASON.	[17:47]
PeterL	funkenstein_ or do you just have to ask which keys are in his wot, and you can generate a tree from there?	[17:47]
trinque	funkenstein_: it makes more sense for you to make your own decisions about which patches you like, and if I don't like it I'm free to alter your patch to suit me	[17:47]
asciilifeform	ideally you would never have to transmit whole tree, right	[17:47]
asciilifeform	trinque has it.	[17:47]
funkenstein_	ok thanks for walking me through it	[17:48]
thestringpuller	PeterL: being a chemist what was the formative era when alchemy became chemistry?	[17:52]
funkenstein_	R. Boyle's name comes up often in this context	[17:55]
asciilifeform	http://www.wptz.com/politics/first-on-cnn-us-plans-to-publicly-blame-iran-for-dam-cyber-breach/38444226 << in other lulz.	[17:56]
assbot	First on CNN: U.S. plans to publicly blame Iran for dam cyber breach \| Politics - WPTZ Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1Uj1jqm )	[17:56]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo ^ qntra ?	[17:56]
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BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Was looking at that actually, may make the cut.	[17:56]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[17:56]
funkenstein_	thestringpuller, imho as long as grant-writers pull the wool over the eyes of the grantors, alchemy continues	[17:58]
shinohai	Funny I was looking at that same article before gf came over.	[18:00]
thestringpuller	modern alchemy? psuedoscience in a sense... But I was more referring from the psychological transition of viewing the world through the lens of alchemy vs. that of chemistry	[18:01]
thestringpuller	I agree we should stop playing fast and loose with the scientific method tho...	[18:02]
funkenstein_	well if you can get a grant from the king to do real chemistry by suggesting there might be immortality in it, why not?	[18:03]
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thestringpuller	i don't think there are any grants for turning led into gold	[18:06]
thestringpuller	and we're well aware the atomic difference in the two...	[18:06]
funkenstein_	aha but micro-black holes, big bang cosmology, "the singularity", etc.	[18:07]
thestringpuller	"there will always be mysticism, just in another form"	[18:07]
funkenstein_	there you go :)	[18:07]
thestringpuller	but that's just congealing knowledge from alchemy to chemistry :P	[18:08]
thestringpuller	i'm more specifically pointing out formative moments like in 2001 when the monkeys encounter the monolith	[18:08]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: my billz are 100% paid by 'alchemy'.	[18:09]
asciilifeform	like, e.g., kepler's.	[18:09]
asciilifeform	(well, he had astrology, same diff.)	[18:10]
thestringpuller	what is computer alchemy?	[18:10]
thestringpuller	trying to discover how to break sha-2?	[18:10]
funkenstein_	windows security?	[18:10]
asciilifeform	more prosaic	[18:11]
shinohai	I wasn't aware you could use "Windows" and "Security" in same expression?	[18:11]
asciilifeform	modern alchemists are 'clever' and try to claim small things.	[18:11]
asciilifeform	not gold, copper.	[18:11]
thestringpuller	I haven't had to reinstall windows on my gaming rig in 3 years.	[18:12]
asciilifeform	not immortality - live extra day.	[18:12]
asciilifeform	etc.	[18:12]
asciilifeform	same rubbish, but 'modest'.	[18:12]
thestringpuller	I dunno how all these people get malware in windows.	[18:12]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: typically browser 'driveby'.	[18:12]
asciilifeform	secondarily - via warez.	[18:13]
thestringpuller	I guess using my machine for single purpose- Netflix and Steam, has limited risk.	[18:13]
thestringpuller	would never use windows machine for exploring the jungle	[18:13]
funkenstein_	http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/i-believe-i-shall-destroy-the-stock-market-again-16327	[18:14]
assbot	I Believe I Shall Destroy The Stock Market Again - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1Xg36LW )	[18:14]
thestringpuller	you'll come home with ticks leeches and tapeworms	[18:14]
asciilifeform	i saw a win98 box once, uninfected, i shit thee not. it was connected to an alarm system, in a closet, no net connection, for decade.	[18:14]
thestringpuller	impressive	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429067 << nope.	[18:18]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 18:12:10; asciilifeform: (incidentally, any mail re: ciphers ??)	[18:18]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429103 << well, that's why people are saving, learning romanian, reading up on old theory of law and commercial practice arcana and so on, neh ?	[18:23]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 19:26:45; asciilifeform: rereading the thread re: the 5 necessary spare asciilifeforms leads me to ask related q, where do we get a spare mircea_popescu if our current one breaks !	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	jic.	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai".	[18:25]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 19:32:16; trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	!s momotaro	[18:25]
assbot	1 results for 'momotaro' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=momotaro	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429131 << more complicated than that (for instance - i engage enemy on his strong turf all the time, i just don't engage it on its ~chosen~ turf except for final battle), but in principle sure.	[18:28]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 19:38:02; asciilifeform: he has a good grip of military craft, and understands that only idiots engage enemy on ~his~ strong turf	[18:28]
asciilifeform	i suggest that the craft of producing mircea_popescu henceforth be referred to as momotronics.	[18:30]
asciilifeform	(per momotaro.)	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429146 << this is not necessarily unworkable - for a long time humans kept domesticated animals but didn't breed them in captivity - merely captured more. yet otherwise, sure.	[18:30]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 19:47:13; trinque: if #b-a is not growing its own theorem-provers, it is merely feeding off the tit of the world it works against.	[18:30]
PeterL	thestringpuller I am not really strong on history, I would say 1800s, peer reviewed journals became a thing	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	PeterL "peer reviewed journals" became a thing in 1950s, together with state-funded science.	[18:31]
asciilifeform	and monasteries certainly did not ~breed~ thinkers	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	they were trying to emulate the previous functioning of actual science, which was very much b-a.	[18:31]
asciilifeform	aha, royal society, etc.	[18:31]
asciilifeform	everyone knows the story of harrison, the watchmaker ?	[18:32]
BingoBoingo	aha	[18:32]
asciilifeform	the one who eventually - in his 80s - awarded longitude prize	[18:32]
asciilifeform	was rebuffed by royal society for ~decades~ because... not in wot.	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	!s story of harrison, the watchmaker	[18:32]
asciilifeform	it cuts both ways.	[18:32]
assbot	0 results for 'story of harrison, the watchmaker' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=story+of+harrison%2C+the+watchmaker	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	log can take one of everything.	[18:32]
asciilifeform	!s longitude	[18:32]
assbot	7 results for 'longitude' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=longitude	[18:32]
asciilifeform	http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/08/article-2034658-0DC6E85C00000578-158_634x628.jpg	[18:33]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1pj6iMq )	[18:33]
PeterL	I haven't had to reinstall windows on my gaming rig in 3 years << I havn't had to reinstall the OS on my mac in 9 years, it mostly sorta still works	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429150 << not giving a shit, for instance, in incredible short supply.	[18:33]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 19:50:53; trinque: what is this magical people-essense we will rediscover other than good leadership?	[18:33]
asciilifeform	^ his prototype	[18:33]
asciilifeform	https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Harrison's_Chronometer_H5.JPG	[18:33]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1pj6jQq )	[18:33]
asciilifeform	^ his final one.	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429153 << amusingly enough, it's historically how it works.	[18:34]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 19:52:06; asciilifeform: what, you think ~their~ students, ~will~ ??	[18:34]
PeterL	i saw a win98 box once, uninfected, i shit thee not. it was connected to an alarm system, in a closet, no net connection, for decade. << my previous job we had a windows 98 box dedicated to a piece of equipment	[18:34]
asciilifeform	PeterL: was it a mass spec ?	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	lol! how did you know.	[18:35]
PeterL	no, NIR	[18:35]
asciilifeform	ah!	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	oh.	[18:35]
asciilifeform	we had both, and yes win98	[18:35]
PeterL	If it still works, why upgrade?	[18:36]
asciilifeform	mass spec is the worst, came with isa card	[18:36]
asciilifeform	no upgrade, ever.	[18:36]
asciilifeform	incidentally, ~no lab ever hires a reverser to build a new interface.	[18:37]
asciilifeform	because how do you budget for that.	[18:37]
asciilifeform	$MAXINT for rusty iron, but not a penny for hiring folks	[18:37]
PeterL	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai". << try the Jedi approach, one-on-one tutelage	[18:37]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 19:32:16; trinque: maybe gotta actually train an army at some point, instead of hoping heaven drops its own	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429161 << this is actually a very juvenal-ish image. yet i don't recall it as a thing.	[18:37]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 20:00:05; *: trinque wonders which of the ancient conquerors ever sat waiting for power to show up of its own accord, shield and spear in hand	[18:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> because how do you budget for that. << i have no idea wqhat the because would be, other than idiots. if i ran the lab i would, simply on grounds of independence.	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	and of course i'd prolly have a wailing chorus of stakeholder idiots, whom i'd tell the usual get fucked.	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	PeterL i only do what with women of a certain age.	[18:39]
deedbot-	[Qntra] US May Accuse Iran Of Office Computer Infection - http://qntra.net/2016/03/us-may-accuse-iran-of-office-computer-infection/	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429166 << the spartans "emerged" out of a well understood, well documented process modern man prefers to think never existed. specifically : the woman's job to push them out ; the man's job to decide which may live. and runts - off to the apothetae.	[18:40]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 20:00:36; trinque: fell out the womb and of the random shuffling of life, some were spartans	[18:40]
PeterL	asciilifeform my current lab goes the direction of paying for "service contract" with equipment manufacturers to keep our software up-to-date	[18:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i only ever worked in godforsaken usg labs.	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	PeterL and if you tell the head manager that this is a miserable abdication from his job - which is to assure you the stuff will work no matter what, he says ?	[18:42]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429366 << Actually leads to pederasty. Anyways the Jedi thing was invented by the George Lucas hamplanet.	[18:42]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 21:37:58; PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429119 << it is a complicated thing, "train an army of samurai". << try the Jedi approach, one-on-one tutelage	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	let me guess, "nobody could have foreseen - no one got fired for following the herd".	[18:42]
asciilifeform	and anyway there's ~6 people you can hire to do the isa card.	[18:43]
PeterL	the equipment does what we want it to, what more do we need?	[18:43]
asciilifeform	( asciilifeform is one... )	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	PeterL i tohuhgt you were scientists ? "this experiment came out right - what more ?"	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	uh i dunno...	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	!s negative vs positive functioning	[18:43]
assbot	0 results for 'negative vs positive functioning' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=negative+vs+positive+functioning	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1425915 < that.	[18:44]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 23:26:24; assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 23:20:09; mircea_popescu: you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429178 << he's asking you for the index list of that room ; you're not providing it because ?	[18:45]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 20:05:42; asciilifeform: trinque: everything that is ~actually worth reading~ would fit in a large room.	[18:45]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429189 << cunt runs on perl, it is what it is, it does what it does. 90% failue rate may well be very self-flattering if the criteria discussed are contemplated seriously.	[18:46]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 20:09:20; trinque: if you bothered to breed well a 90% failure rate is deplorable	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	10% failure rate is based on the concept that a)most will be artisans, ie, gardeners and b) periodic war and disease anyway.	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429190 << this is sadly not much more than a restatement of the independent vertical credo, "where do i get just the facts". bear in mind that this vertical is a creation of the usg agitprop machine and nothing more.	[18:48]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 20:09:29; trinque: the whole rest is what information you put in the skulls	[18:48]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the books are the EASY PART	[18:49]
asciilifeform	and i listed many of them here.	[18:49]
asciilifeform	over past years.	[18:49]
asciilifeform	go and make a set of ~eyes~ for the books to be read by.	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	being an us style "independent" has about as much to do with independence as being a us style "liberal" has to do with liberalism ; or as much as the 6th grader's idea of "a lothario" has to do with fucking, partying and generally the dyonyssian world.	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2013/queers/#selection-55.0-55.24 < reference there.	[18:50]
assbot	Queers on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj7Ype )	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform "many of them" != "here's list"	[18:50]
PeterL	PeterL and if you tell the head manager that this is a miserable abdication from his job - which is to assure you the stuff will work no matter what, he says ? << If the equipment does not work the way it is supposed to, we speak to our contact and he fixes it, I don't see any abdication of job by manager here?	[18:51]
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mircea_popescu	really ?	[18:52]
asciilifeform	my list is not complete until i'm dead...	[18:52]
asciilifeform	take naggum's list.	[18:52]
asciilifeform	it is in the logz even.	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	suppose you get married, and if you or wife need anty money, you go ask your dad.	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	this doesn't abdicate your role, and she would be wise to mary you in this arrangement, yes ?	[18:52]
PeterL	well, the company can pay me to figure out how to program it or pay the guy who built it to program it, it is just cheaper/faster for them to do it	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	(note that this is quite how it worked, for poor people in rural, feudal settings. recommended reading : http://trilema.com/2012/la-terra-trema/ )	[18:54]
assbot	La Terra Trema on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj8pjm )	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	PeterL and it'd be cheaper/faster (== easier) for your dad to pay.	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	a discussion of whether x is an abdication or not can not be decided on the basis of "is it cheaper or faster". because of fucking course it would be, that's what abdication means.	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	you give up.	[18:55]
PeterL	do you fix your pipes yourself or do you hire a plumber?	[18:55]
PeterL	is hiring a plumber an abdication of duty?	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	and let's relate here the immorality of capital, as per http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/#footnote_7_65336	[18:56]
assbot	Give computers the vote. They're cheaper than women, even! on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pj8ALv )	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	PeterL i only hire plumbers because i know how to fix my pipes.	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	i would not hire, eg, "apple laptop fixer".	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	and i have not to date hired anyone to do anything whatsoever i don't know how to do myself. how would i pay them ?	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	(and yes that means i can read my own fucking x rays, and say to the doctor what he says back to me.)	[18:57]
PeterL	and you program your own OS from scratch?	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	no, which is why i don't hire osen.	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	i... don't know how to pay.	[18:58]
PeterL	but you use an OS written by somebody	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	so i do.	[18:58]
PeterL	so wtf is even your point?	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	you think that was a counterargument somehow ?!	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	i also use women i didn't make myself...	[18:59]
PeterL	I'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to argue here?	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	well, i dun know how it'd be otherwise said, so i guess we let it lay ?	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429211 << it is very difficult to get around this in bitcoin as-is.	[19:01]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 20:24:40; asciilifeform: i.e. that the collective of miners CAN exclude certain tx.	[19:01]
asciilifeform	quite impossible, actually, afaik.	[19:01]
PeterL	other than running your own mining pool	[19:01]
asciilifeform	PeterL: they can collude to kill you	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429221 << the "all data used to eval a tx is found in that tx" point is paramount and controlling here as there. no, they don't "pick and choose".	[19:01]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 20:29:36; funkenstein_: they pick and choose what TX to include in a block they mine as always	[19:01]
PeterL	with >50% if nobody else likes you	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	PeterL yes, i'm aware that if we felt like it, we could just buy visa hurr durr.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	what's any of that to do with bitcoin.	[19:02]
asciilifeform	^	[19:02]
PeterL	as mircea_popescu always says, "don't be poor"	[19:02]
asciilifeform	there must not BE a 'blackhole tx' button.	[19:02]
asciilifeform	anywhere.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	that doesn't relate here.	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	"how to fly!" "don't be poor" < works. "how to cold fusion" "Don't be poor" < fails. what'd money do ?	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, maybe i have a better approach re the other thread. do you suppose PeterL that if you had to take a job with one of two labs, absolutely the same offer in every respect, you'd take the job with the lab that rents space in random buildings or with the lab that owns its own building ?	[19:06]
PeterL	I guess I would say the one that owns a building	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	by the same measure, i'd prefer the lab that owns its machinery rather than borrow it from unknown people in unspecifiable conditions.	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	just moreso, because machinery > real estate ever since the industrial revolution.	[19:07]
PeterL	Okay .... I don't know where you got the idea any equipment borrowing is going on here?	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	hahaha. what ?	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	a girl i own, i can order to plug into whatever cock i choose. a girl you borrow from her parents - only with prior written permission from owner.	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	which i suppose is as good an explanation as any as to why i don't marry : i own my equipment.	[19:09]
PeterL	we get the equipment, we have the manufacturers give us software to run it, then we get to do whatever we want with it	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	except not use win98 station ?	[19:09]
asciilifeform	btw i once spent year+ reversing (successfully) an instrument.	[19:10]
asciilifeform	de-winblowzated it.	[19:10]
asciilifeform	story is in the logz.	[19:10]
asciilifeform	!s tecan	[19:10]
assbot	10 results for 'tecan' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tecan	[19:10]
PeterL	ah, if we want to run on win98 station we would have to make driver ourself, but why would we want that?	[19:10]
asciilifeform	but i was not ~hired to do this~, but for something else, i did it as an extra thing	[19:10]
mircea_popescu	PeterL i thought you did run it on windows.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	could you have run it on an actual os ?	[19:11]
asciilifeform	and, INTERESTINGLY, i owned the copyright, and then spun off the thing as product, and NO ONE BOUGHT	[19:11]
PeterL	well, sure, but newer winblowz than 98	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform how many of those things in production ? 100s ?	[19:11]
asciilifeform	because 'eh it runs anyway, so what if a postdoc has to babysit it'	[19:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 20,000+	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	sad huh.	[19:11]
asciilifeform	aha.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	this sort of thing readily informs me as to your views re, say, 0day mkt.	[19:12]
asciilifeform	yes.	[19:12]
PeterL	some equipment is non-widows, like the NMR	[19:12]
asciilifeform	http://www.molboxllc.com/products.html << mandatory spam	[19:12]
assbot	MolBox LLC ... ( http://bit.ly/1pjarQC )	[19:12]
asciilifeform	~still~ for sale...	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform in the sad truth of the matter dept, this is kinda why the closed box crud even exists, that's the vp : "by the time someone undoes the shit, it'll be too late for the world to care"	[19:12]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: believe or not, when this was new, i even blew a few hundy on... google ads	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i believe it. "advertising" works as well as make-up.	[19:13]
asciilifeform	we even got a call with the hw vendor	[19:13]
asciilifeform	no shit, the swiss	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	and ?	[19:13]
asciilifeform	they hungy up once i explained that 'no this is not a winblows app, it is not a plugin for yours, it replaces 'evoware' '	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	PeterL it's just miserable management, whether you see it or not.	[19:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: story is in the logz iirc.	[19:14]
PeterL	I guess I don't see what you would do instead?	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	only buy open hardware. if hardware is considered for buying, add the cost of reversing and opening it to the bill, to make a proper comparison.	[19:15]
mircea_popescu	ie, the win98 item is 100k in cash + 4,5mn in fixing it to spec ; this is 340k in cash + 0 etc.	[19:15]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: there is NO open lab automation sys.	[19:15]
asciilifeform	NO open spectrophotometer.	[19:16]
asciilifeform	NO open mass spec.	[19:16]
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asciilifeform	NO open gc.	[19:16]
asciilifeform	etc.	[19:16]
asciilifeform	etc.	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	mostly because of abdication discussed above.	[19:16]
asciilifeform	well no shit!	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	there is also no us research worth the mention.	[19:16]
PeterL	asciilifeform has it, there is no open lab equipment or software	[19:16]
asciilifeform	NO open chinese or russian either	[19:16]
asciilifeform	or brazilian or wtf	[19:16]
asciilifeform	NONE	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	because closed is always a competition of empires, and the chinese got 10x more cash.	[19:16]
asciilifeform	aha and their idiot crud runs for winblowz.	[19:16]
mircea_popescu	what do they care.	[19:17]
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PeterL	except NMR	[19:17]
asciilifeform	and, notably, my phone does NOT ring with folks asking for reversed hw.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429246 << epic :D	[19:17]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 20:40:03; funkenstein_: it seems perhaps a checkpoint might be in order	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	"this decentralized paradigm is great, now can we make it centralized again plox"	[19:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: notably, my tecan proggy allows user to use non-branded furniture in the machine.	[19:18]
asciilifeform	one would THINK this would make a diff to someone !>?	[19:18]
asciilifeform	but no.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	wgat is this tecan ting anyway ?	[19:19]
asciilifeform	robot.	[19:19]
asciilifeform	see my film.	[19:19]
asciilifeform	(linked)	[19:19]
asciilifeform	narrated, even, by yers truly	[19:19]
asciilifeform	long ago.	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	molbox labminion hehe cute	[19:20]
asciilifeform	0 sales.	[19:20]
asciilifeform	so what if the thing let me use a 5k usd spectrophotometre instead of 50k golden toilet that has FEWER wavelengths ?!	[19:20]
asciilifeform	no one gave a shit.	[19:20]
asciilifeform	or half a shit.	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	quite problematic huh.	[19:21]
asciilifeform	not china, not north kr, not fuucking antarktica	[19:21]
asciilifeform	crickets.	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	i mean, this would be the exact textbook example of "work really hard, do something useful, be rich"	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	except by now the shitworld is so thick with shit, it "only works" for approved lottery winner.	[19:21]
asciilifeform	100% lisp btw.	[19:21]
asciilifeform	and mircea_popescu has it.	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	"be less poor" suddenly a lot bitter than previously contemplated, huh ?	[19:22]
asciilifeform	i busted arse to make that thing. and afaik nothing like it exists to this day.	[19:22]
*	trinque takes off his hat	[19:22]
asciilifeform	aha.	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if it makes you feel better, i'd buy it for the putative chemistry lab i don't run.	[19:23]
asciilifeform	l0lk	[19:23]
BingoBoingo	!b 2	[19:23]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0S4NDZ2.txt )	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	anyway. i'm sorry.	[19:23]
asciilifeform	applicable to other industrial uses incidentally	[19:24]
asciilifeform	e.g., production line	[19:24]
asciilifeform	anywhere there is moving gizmos.	[19:24]
asciilifeform	anywy this was long ago and now mircea_popescu knows some of the perspective it gave.	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	well guaranteedly you can't make any mircea_popescu 's thus, they'd simply burn down your world.	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	cheap way to make high iq arsonists i guess.	[19:25]
asciilifeform	aha.	[19:25]
asciilifeform	which is what i am.	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	my experience, on the contrary - whenever mp as much as vaguely disliked a world, that world caught on fire by itself and cut off its own head.	[19:26]
asciilifeform	what can i say , mircea_popescu is better arsonist than i	[19:26]
asciilifeform	i came here to learn from him !	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	how;s that coming along ?	[19:26]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Microsoft Bundles Adware With Security Update - http://qntra.net/2016/03/microsoft-bundles-adware-with-security-update/	[19:26]
asciilifeform	methinks i am learning.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	well then i'm glad to hear.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429260 << this is actually quite reasonable. trinque : please rebase ? funenstein_ sure, which tree is yours ?	[19:28]
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assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 20:46:17; funkenstein_: so when trinque asks me to regrind, perhaps I should ask him for his tree	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	quite how this'd work in sanity.	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	(well really, it'd be more like "i'd like your x rebased for my tree, here it is, you see problem ?", but w/e)	[19:29]
PeterL	asciilifeform this robot thing looks much like what I saw at Dow, I never used it but I had coworkers who used these things for high-throughput research, I dunno what software they used	[19:29]
asciilifeform	now iam remembering things about lm, i had many nice things, had motion planning, could run the thing 10-20x faster thaan 'evoware' (we called it 'evilware') because mine was ~guaranteed~ not to crash, etc.	[19:29]
asciilifeform	PeterL: everyone uses the thing that comes with the instrument.	[19:29]
asciilifeform	because the alternative is the one discussed.	[19:29]
mircea_popescu	you know, you two could perhaps help each other ?	[19:29]
PeterL	yeah, prolly something winblows	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	PeterL get him in room to pitch his thing, make 15% or w/e ? asciilifeform you should prolly hire someone to make the pitch tho.	[19:30]
asciilifeform	sad thing is that i can't easily demo. my outfit never afforded own tecan.	[19:30]
asciilifeform	when the lab closed, we lost access to the thing.	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	a problem, perhaps not insurmountable.	[19:31]
PeterL	mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is going to reverse engineer an LC-MS? and what, we get better performance out of it or something?	[19:31]
asciilifeform	tried 4, 5 times to buy a used one.	[19:31]
asciilifeform	fell through each time.	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	can you cleanly hook it up to an existing unit ?	[19:31]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: every unit is slightly different.	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	PeterL well he did make the 10-20x faster claim ?	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	seems to me a 50% speed gain in high thoroughput research would be worth money.	[19:31]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is specifically for robot arms	[19:31]
asciilifeform	could not, naturally, make this claim for an ms !	[19:32]
asciilifeform	see, mircea_popescu, simply NOT USING WINBLOWZ is a guaranteed gain in ANY conveyor!	[19:32]
asciilifeform	but do you see folks doing it ?	[19:32]
asciilifeform	skip the ransomware, the usgola, etc.	[19:32]
PeterL	that was at previous job	[19:32]
asciilifeform	but anyone does ?	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i don't see folks PITCHED it either.	[19:32]
asciilifeform	fwiw i pitched.	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	to whom ? how did it go ?	[19:32]
asciilifeform	to 5-6 labs	[19:32]
asciilifeform	it all ended with crickets chirping	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	did you try to close yourself ?	[19:33]
asciilifeform	what's that mean	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	when you say "we did pitch" do you mean, you went into the room, or did you hire someone who does this professionally ?	[19:33]
asciilifeform	we hired nobody, had no money.	[19:33]
asciilifeform	tried to get vc even, also silence	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	while i am not actually saying "well that's why", do bear in mind you're a miserable closer.	[19:34]
asciilifeform	my partner is not nearly as inept as i	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	ah so partner pitched ?	[19:34]
asciilifeform	(ph.d. in his 60s)	[19:34]
asciilifeform	together, we pitched.	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	you have to understand, this is an actual job, exactly as respectable as whore.	[19:35]
asciilifeform	yes.	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	you wouldn't expect to come out of your bosses' cake, on a day's notice, would you.	[19:35]
asciilifeform	fwiw he was well placed in biochem wot	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	at least not to any positive response.	[19:35]
asciilifeform	and many many folks begged management to buy our thing	[19:35]
asciilifeform	but always same reply.	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	hm.	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	same reply being ?	[19:36]
asciilifeform	'fuckoff'	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	wow they say that ?!	[19:37]
asciilifeform	it is also possible that folks were afraid of voided warranties	[19:37]
asciilifeform	the instruments typically come with service contract, $xx,xxx/y	[19:37]
asciilifeform	the vendor cannot in most jurisdictions entirely forbid the use of 3rd party soft, but can make life harder for the user.	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	funny that you didn't even have to be sued by tecan.	[19:37]
asciilifeform	aha!	[19:37]
asciilifeform	i was half-convinced they would!	[19:38]
mircea_popescu	my previous idea of "normally this is how this sort of thing gets killed"	[19:38]
asciilifeform	but tecan - cleverly - understood that they do not NEED to buy OR sue	[19:38]
asciilifeform	that we would wither away naturally.	[19:38]
mircea_popescu	and that understanding is necessarily not deductive.	[19:38]
asciilifeform	aha, possibly they made some calls somewhere.	[19:38]
asciilifeform	i had and still have nfi.	[19:38]
asciilifeform	note that we were never able to get capital to even get a demo machine.	[19:39]
asciilifeform	much less sell the whole orchestra in kit.	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429278 << what's your idea of that lens ?	[19:40]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 21:01:33; thestringpuller: modern alchemy? psuedoscience in a sense... But I was more referring from the psychological transition of viewing the world through the lens of alchemy vs. that of chemistry	[19:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform for my own curiosity, was this ever on, say, slashdot ?	[19:40]
asciilifeform	nope.	[19:41]
asciilifeform	why would it.	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	it's a good story.	[19:41]
asciilifeform	iirc i spammed reddit, fwiw	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	"here's how we tried - and failed - to do somerthing useful"	[19:41]
*	BingoBoingo starting to think this actually kinda sounds like a pete_dushenski problem	[19:42]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i did not want to put a final gravestone on it.	[19:43]
asciilifeform	i do ~not~ think the matter was of insufficient propaganda.	[19:44]
asciilifeform	the matter is that the buyers for this thing simply do not exist !	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	"putting final gravestone" and writing the above story are not the same.	[19:44]
BingoBoingo	iirc i spammed reddit, fwiw << FWIW, after sporatic success it has taken about "3 ani experienta" before I got rather reliable results infultrating the various web traffic concentrators to gather eyes.	[19:44]
asciilifeform	the other sad thing is that we do not have the capital.	[19:46]
asciilifeform	for one thing, deployment would require ~month+ of my full time at the site.	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	that bad ?	[19:46]
asciilifeform	to fit the thing to the instruments in question.	[19:46]
asciilifeform	aha.	[19:46]
asciilifeform	this is not a mcdonalds deep fryer.	[19:46]
asciilifeform	this is a every-$500K-box-is-unique thing.	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	maybe the economics are just not there, let's try and quantify this.	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	so, what's the list value of the item in question ?	[19:46]
asciilifeform	'evo' sold, in those days at least, for 250-500k depending on dealer options.	[19:47]
asciilifeform	support - again somewhere north of, iirc, 50k/y	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	ok. say 300k, +50k/y contract.	[19:47]
asciilifeform	this was for the naked instrument.	[19:47]
asciilifeform	straight from the swiss.	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	now, your addon, if deployed would, for the average usecase, provide an improvement of what ? 10% ? 50% ? 300% ?	[19:47]
asciilifeform	case by case.	[19:48]
mircea_popescu	i need a number.	[19:48]
asciilifeform	very difficult to quantify. depends on what they paid their babysitter for the cruddy winblowz thing, how much money they lost to destroyed work on account of microshit.	[19:48]
asciilifeform	how do i quantify this?!	[19:48]
mircea_popescu	i have no idea, but that doesn't mean it's not your job to.	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	did you ever run a typical case ?	[19:49]
asciilifeform	there isa typical case??!!!	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	looky : a "typical case" is a convention, allowing management to make judgements.	[19:49]
asciilifeform	this is a every-lab-is-entirely-different sort of thing, afaik.	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	it is, much like the "average voter", "median consumer" etc, a fiction, made by some methods.	[19:50]
asciilifeform	we had 3 just in the building where i worked !	[19:50]
asciilifeform	and all were entirely diff	[19:50]
asciilifeform	in terms of workflow	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	i don't care how fucking different they are. typical case will be had or the sky falls.	[19:50]
asciilifeform	i went out and did intelligence	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	anyway, if you don't have the experience to discuss typical, discuss case study. the one time you tried this.	[19:51]
asciilifeform	found, later, that MOST evo were bought by forensic (police) labs	[19:51]
asciilifeform	which are bound to usgola	[19:51]
asciilifeform	by statute.	[19:51]
asciilifeform	this handily explained maybe half of my problem.	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	explain this.	[19:51]
asciilifeform	aha	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	no i mean, explain "which are bound to usgola".	[19:51]
asciilifeform	they have to use ~certified~ crud	[19:53]
asciilifeform	this means 1) winblowz 2) massive bag of payola to 'cerfifiers'	[19:54]
asciilifeform	think fda.	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	afaik they still buy whatever donuts they want.	[19:54]
asciilifeform	yeah but this is not doughnut	[19:55]
asciilifeform	this would actually touch the evidence.	[19:55]
asciilifeform	anyway ianal	[19:55]
asciilifeform	but this is what i found out.	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	seeing all the recent scandals with falsifications etc, i'd be much surprised if they even run the equipment anymore, so yeah.	[19:56]
asciilifeform	maaaaaaaybe we could have 'fought city hall' IF WE HAD MONEY	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	and in other news, omfg this provolone is magnificent.	[19:56]
asciilifeform	WE DID NOT	[19:56]
asciilifeform	and still don;t.	[19:56]
asciilifeform	because how.	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so is it like 10% ?	[19:56]
asciilifeform	which	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	now, your addon, if deployed would, for the average usecase, provide an improvement of what ? 10% ? 50% ? 300% ?	[19:57]
asciilifeform	can be 10, could be 1000	[19:57]
asciilifeform	my lab tested custom compounds in vitro, some worth $50k/gram	[19:58]
asciilifeform	ruined sample is a loss.	[19:58]
asciilifeform	the competition to the machine was asian gurlz for $15/h	[19:58]
asciilifeform	they were accurate, mostly, but could not match the speed.	[19:58]
asciilifeform	but wtf woudl a usg lab care about speed.	[19:58]
asciilifeform	again if it helps to understand this, it is not a plug-and-go thing, i would have to show up in PERSON and work out the process flow	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	ok, so what i'll say is, "this machine, once deployed, would improve your workflow by about 15%, which is worth about 50k or so. it could also be had hiring techs, at a cost of about 60k a year for the machine's lifespan"	[19:59]
asciilifeform	and reverse any proprietary hardware they have that i did not have when i wrote it.	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	"the cost for its deployment includes me spending a month fucking up yoru shit, which is about 10k or so, and our fee, which is 2500 a year"	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	this about it ?	[20:00]
asciilifeform	approx.	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you forget that in a previous lifetime i made a lot of money out of insepcting and changing production workflow.	[20:00]
asciilifeform	though this is mega-lowball	[20:01]
asciilifeform	and assumes no surgical, if you will, complications.	[20:01]
asciilifeform	and yeah i recall	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	mega lowball ie, re cost ?	[20:01]
asciilifeform	aha	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	i can see why it didn't sell.	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	not to say it is your fault, tho. but i can see why it didn't sell, needn't any conspiracy to explain it.	[20:01]
asciilifeform	didn't say there was !	[20:01]
asciilifeform	and also recall that i'm a nobody with nothing. i dont;' even have the money to make 10k one month and then nothing for 3.	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	this is a large part of the problem. there's a hidden barrier to entry here, that is the "cost to enter wot". ie, as a manager of x item, i MAY consider dealing wioth nobody. but not over anything.	[20:03]
asciilifeform	aha.	[20:03]
asciilifeform	certainly not a half mil machine!	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	much like the cost to send bitcoin txn, that random derps imagine to be "=fee" is in fact something like 0.5 to 5 btc PER TX, if you include EVERYTHING ytou need to run bitcoin payments,	[20:03]
asciilifeform	handling 50k/gram samples !!	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	just so the cost of dealing with some dude is not 0 in any sense.	[20:03]
asciilifeform	agha!!	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	just the fact that i have toi make an entry in my phonebook is $$$.	[20:03]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu is SMARRT and GETS IT!	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	experience carries a long way.	[20:04]
asciilifeform	that thing was, if you will, my 'formative' naggum experience.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	i wouldn't take this failure to be more informative than it is. the technology never entered into discussion, it failed on economic grounds.	[20:04]
asciilifeform	certainly did!	[20:04]
asciilifeform	and the solution was 'stop being you, be somebody else'	[20:05]
asciilifeform	but all i had was being me.	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	not exactly.	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	ima finish eating and come back to this.	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	so importantly - understand that it's in no sense a matter of 'stop being you, be somebody else'. anyone else would confront the same exact problem,, which is to say that this is not able to stand on its own. would work superbly as an add-on product of a company offering this kinbd of thing that can x-sell it.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	but otherwise, it's not workable, and it wouldn't be workable for trump.	[20:09]
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mircea_popescu	incidentally, this trap is what informs the vc circus' derpage about "big" bla bla.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	yeah, it metastasized into idiocy, but originally it's the very logical observation that the draw needed to make sales in b2b is much larger than consumer.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-03-10.log.html#t19:57:29 << "true quality ~as seen before~". ie, let's just call it that for the sake of calling it something.	[20:13]
assbot	#Eulora log for Thursday, 2016-03-10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ra55mS )	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	damn.	[20:13]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429740 << YES! which is why we called tecan 1st!1111	[21:05]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 23:09:57; mircea_popescu: so importantly - understand that it's in no sense a matter of 'stop being you, be somebody else'. anyone else would confront the same exact problem,, which is to say that this is not able to stand on its own. would work superbly as an add-on product of a company offering this kinbd of thing that can x-sell it.	[21:05]
*	asciilifeform is not ~complete~ idiot	[21:06]
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*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[21:08]
pete_dushenski	;;ticker	[21:08]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 416.65, Best ask: 417.02, Bid-ask spread: 0.37000, Last trade: 416.7, 24 hour volume: 13751.63415602, 24 hour low: 410.68, 24 hour high: 418.24, 24 hour vwap: None	[21:08]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429741 << well not quite, he ~could~ buy the whole orchestra and sell machine+nonwinblowz+customization etc.	[21:08]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 23:10:07; mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's not workable, and it wouldn't be workable for trump.	[21:08]
asciilifeform	but usg would not sign off on it.	[21:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00052301 = 6.1192 BTC [-] {4}	[21:09]
asciilifeform	he would have to sell it in north kr.	[21:09]
asciilifeform	consider iran	[21:10]
asciilifeform	siemens sold them stuxnet-os successfully.	[21:10]
asciilifeform	because...???	[21:10]
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asciilifeform	because NO ONE GIVES HALF A FUCK	[21:10]
pete_dushenski	or non datur ?	[21:10]
asciilifeform	no one wants to LIVE badly enough	[21:10]
asciilifeform	to make use of sanity.	[21:10]
pete_dushenski	or they want to live plenty and don't seem to be ~sufficiently~ dying on own petard for using winbloze.	[21:11]
asciilifeform	which is why it is important to ~help them die~.	[21:11]
pete_dushenski	god's work	[21:11]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429323 << 'momo' calls to mind a) steering wheel company famous for racing helms, b) slang name for retard	[21:13]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 21:30:24; asciilifeform: i suggest that the craft of producing mircea_popescu henceforth be referred to as momotronics.	[21:13]
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pete_dushenski	http://www.rallynuts.com/user/products/large/MOD_07_lge.jpg << momo wheel : the ultimate in minimalism	[21:18]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/21lsH7r )	[21:18]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> no one wants to LIVE badly enough << sadly, this is ~true.	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	nobody is used to the idea that fuck up and it's your ass. not anymore. because hey, "that's no way to live".	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	well... neither is this.	[21:29]
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thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: "only a cynical man would call what these people have lives...this is not how man was supposed to live."	[21:41]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429640 << fwiw i even enjoy giving pitches in person	[21:43]
assbot	Logged on 10-03-2016 22:42:50; *: BingoBoingo starting to think this actually kinda sounds like a pete_dushenski problem	[21:43]
mircea_popescu	" 1]To whomever is now going to say "it's server fault, deedbot should output GPG signed material with proper mimetype like application/pgp-signature". I can only recommend frontal lobotomy by robot that fetches its instructions with wget." << i lolled.	[21:47]
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mircea_popescu	in other news today, how to get married in japan : http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbyjia9Msv1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg	[21:48]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RCLqGo )	[21:48]
pete_dushenski	with wet floor pylons ??	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:49]
*	assbot gives voice to adlai	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	i think the "slippery when wet" thing is much needed instruction for otaku.	[21:49]
pete_dushenski	and bukkake	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	isn't that "wet when slippery" ?	[21:50]
*	pete_dushenski hasn't tried. doesn't know	[21:51]
pete_dushenski	http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/travel/venice-italy-jewish-ghetto.html << speaking of all things tmsr	[21:58]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1RCM9ax )	[21:58]
pete_dushenski	'500 Years of Jewish Life in Venice'	[21:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00052284 = 3.137 BTC [-] {2}	[21:58]
pete_dushenski	"Every Venetian I spoke to, Jew and gentile alike, had expressed deep pessimism about the city’s future." << sounds about right	[21:59]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429767 << momotaro.	[22:04]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 00:13:54; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1429323 << 'momo' calls to mind a) steering wheel company famous for racing helms, b) slang name for retard	[22:04]
asciilifeform	!s momotaro	[22:04]
assbot	4 results for 'momotaro' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=momotaro	[22:04]
asciilifeform	jp folktale.	[22:04]
pete_dushenski	ya, just sayin'	[22:08]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429778 << what even is happening in the pic	[22:09]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 00:48:50; mircea_popescu: in other news today, how to get married in japan : http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbyjia9Msv1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg	[22:09]
asciilifeform	also i notice that jp, like ar, does not manufacture ugly chix in any appreciable qty. at all.	[22:10]
pete_dushenski	letting out of doors and manufacturing are different beasts	[22:11]
asciilifeform	they might feed the ugly chix to koi	[22:13]
asciilifeform	but i will point out that there are not enough koi, or even sharks, on the planet3, to feed the ugly anglo chix to.	[22:13]
asciilifeform	just too big of a job.	[22:13]
pete_dushenski	jp just figured out 'organic food' centuries ago. it's a newer concept to anglos.	[22:14]
asciilifeform	afaik they never invented eating shit to begin with.	[22:15]
asciilifeform	most folks didn't.	[22:15]
asciilifeform	until americans 'helped'.	[22:15]
asciilifeform	starvation was good enough for people-who-had-no-food.	[22:15]
asciilifeform	(yes cn ate swallow nests, crickets, etc. and sure. but modern mass poisoning ~requires~ industry.)	[22:16]
pete_dushenski	pre-americans also had insufficient chemistry	[22:16]
asciilifeform	holy FUCK kakobrekla i have 100% 'silentwings' fans, NEW CASE, WITH ACOUSTIC FOAM, and STILL get resonances.	[22:17]
asciilifeform	wtf, what gives.	[22:17]
asciilifeform	it it the motherfucking disks ?!!	[22:17]
pete_dushenski	shoulda bought silentwings case too	[22:17]
asciilifeform	i threw out 2, replaced with ssd for the cost of their weight in plutonium, i suppose now have to do other 2 ?!!	[22:17]
*	asciilifeform grimaces	[22:17]
kakobrekla	hm	[22:18]
asciilifeform	BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	[22:18]
kakobrekla	im curious, which case is it?	[22:18]
asciilifeform	3 days now	[22:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00052284 = 5.0715 BTC [-]	[22:18]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: 'Thermaltake Suppressor F-51'	[22:18]
asciilifeform	steel, with silencing foam on 4 sides.	[22:19]
kakobrekla	im spinning rust free - i have a few 'hp microservers' for that running in another room	[22:19]
asciilifeform	i have the fucker standing on fist-sized sorbothane legs, too	[22:19]
asciilifeform	doesn't help.	[22:19]
pete_dushenski	http://images.anandtech.com/doci/9364/IMG_2708_678x452.jpg << cases in question	[22:19]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1TQlcqi )	[22:19]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: ick	[22:20]
asciilifeform	WTF with the glass, srsly	[22:20]
asciilifeform	that should be an inch thick foam.	[22:20]
pete_dushenski	gurls love it	[22:20]
asciilifeform	???	[22:20]
pete_dushenski	"check out my sweet machine babe. you can see INSIDE" "omg that's hot [drops pants, bends over]"	[22:21]
kakobrekla	for case i use 'fractal design r4' which looks surprisingly similar to your pick	[22:21]
pete_dushenski	this is how i imagine thinking works in reddit heads, at least	[22:21]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: i am not a shrink, cannot catalogue every possible delusion	[22:21]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: this thing had noise dampeners and intake filters (bottom and front)	[22:22]
kakobrekla	yes same here	[22:22]
asciilifeform	the hdd fittings are, fucktardedly, plastic tho.	[22:22]
asciilifeform	i suppose everyone is expected to ssd now.	[22:23]
asciilifeform	old case had steel brackets with rubber grommets.	[22:23]
kakobrekla	mine are rubberized	[22:23]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: which ?	[22:23]
asciilifeform	http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/core-series/core-1000-usb-30 << it ?	[22:23]
assbot	Fractal Design ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQlHk6 )	[22:23]
*	Kushed has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[22:24]
asciilifeform	has dampeners ?	[22:24]
*	Kushedout (~Kushedout@adsl-75-16-50-134.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:24]
asciilifeform	i really got the 'thermaltake' on account of the bottom-mount ps	[22:24]
kakobrekla	http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/define-series/define-r4-black-pearl	[22:24]
assbot	Fractal Design ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQlLR1 )	[22:24]
asciilifeform	(hole, that is. bought ps elsewhere, fanless)	[22:24]
kakobrekla	pretty sure that one is mine	[22:24]
kakobrekla	the fan that comes with it is useless though.	[22:24]
asciilifeform	i would love to buy a case that is just 200kg of copper hedgehog.	[22:25]
asciilifeform	fuck fans.	[22:25]
*	Kushed (~Kushedout@75.16.50.134) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:25]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: see the immersion cooling thread, physics does not cooperate	[22:25]
asciilifeform	(unless the machine is DESIGNED for it from day 1.)	[22:25]
asciilifeform	like cray was.	[22:26]
asciilifeform	immersion adds parasitic capacitance to pcb traces.	[22:26]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: surely not the immersive cray ?	[22:26]
asciilifeform	(cray-2)	[22:26]
asciilifeform	prolly one of the shams they made after cray died	[22:27]
asciilifeform	with intel cpus.	[22:27]
kakobrekla	anyway, easy to cut power to hdd to see if that is the bugger	[22:27]
asciilifeform	then - crud, yes	[22:27]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: can't do this when it spins, will rape the raid	[22:28]
kakobrekla	i dont think i get much resonances	[22:28]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: it comes and goes.	[22:28]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: it did not recover from cray being dead.	[22:28]
asciilifeform	tends to be how it goes.	[22:28]
kakobrekla	but then again i spin fans at 200 rpm or less	[22:28]
*	pokarBot (~pokarBot@67.236.44.54) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:28]
pete_dushenski	;;seen polarbeard	[22:28]
gribble	polarbeard was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: cpp is full of it	[22:28]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: i suspect that it is the heatsinks	[22:28]
*	Kushedout has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[22:28]
asciilifeform	they are loosely-coupled and vibrate.	[22:29]
asciilifeform	(2 cpu board.)	[22:29]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: prolly he decided that we're a buncha nutters.	[22:29]
asciilifeform	after the 'regrind' thread.	[22:29]
pete_dushenski	this was news ?	[22:29]
asciilifeform	news to ~him~	[22:29]
asciilifeform	that he'd have to write every patch N times.	[22:30]
kakobrekla	for heatsinks i use http://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-d14 (ofc not with default fans)	[22:30]
assbot	NH-D14 ... ( http://bit.ly/1MartVs )	[22:30]
asciilifeform	fella couldn't take it.	[22:30]
pete_dushenski	this is why kids should read logs for 6 months before talking	[22:30]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: this physically won't fit.	[22:30]
asciilifeform	(on my board)	[22:30]
asciilifeform	again, 2 cpu	[22:30]
kakobrekla	ah	[22:30]
kakobrekla	aha	[22:30]
kakobrekla	theres plenty of models	[22:30]
asciilifeform	no socket F tho.	[22:31]
pete_dushenski	heh	[22:31]
asciilifeform	it is interesting, i searched for MONTHS to find a new set of socket F hs, found NONE	[22:31]
asciilifeform	had to WASH my old ones.	[22:31]
pete_dushenski	60c max	[22:31]
asciilifeform	~decade of dirt.	[22:31]
asciilifeform	vacuuming and even air compressor, turns out, does not really clean the inside.	[22:31]
asciilifeform	it builds up.	[22:31]
kakobrekla	"Thermalright HR-01 X" ?	[22:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00052461 = 2.6755 BTC [+] {2}	[22:32]
asciilifeform	where do you see AMD F in these ?	[22:33]
asciilifeform	i see AM2/AM3 and intel only.	[22:33]
asciilifeform	or, hm, there was adapter.	[22:33]
asciilifeform	sold out eons ago, looks like.	[22:34]
asciilifeform	but that this is actually very similar shape to what i had before.	[22:34]
asciilifeform	looks a tiny bit more cleanable.	[22:34]
kakobrekla	mebbe something liek http://imagehost.losias.net/images/U2y3F.jpg	[22:34]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1TQn0iY )	[22:34]
asciilifeform	substantially top-heavy though	[22:34]
asciilifeform	will vibrate even moar than mine !	[22:35]
asciilifeform	heat sink should not be top-heavy!1111	[22:35]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: i have the dimms b/w the sockets, so this might not fly.	[22:35]
kakobrekla	and the world should not be round, yet ...	[22:35]
asciilifeform	l0l	[22:35]
asciilifeform	anyway these look quite like mine, but stood on end.	[22:36]
kakobrekla	http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-6950-AMD-Opteron-Socket-F-CPU-Heatsink-Y9115-/251322845713	[22:36]
kakobrekla	?	[22:36]
assbot	Dell Poweredge 6950 AMD Opteron Socket F CPU Heatsink Y9115 \| eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQnaa8 )	[22:36]
kakobrekla	not top heavy but all heavy	[22:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12544 @ 0.00052292 = 6.5595 BTC [-] {4}	[22:36]
asciilifeform	the dell hs need dell mobo holes!	[22:36]
asciilifeform	notice no bracket !111	[22:36]
kakobrekla	fuck do i know what you have	[22:36]
asciilifeform	tyan.	[22:36]
asciilifeform	forever.	[22:36]
kakobrekla	anyway this ends google-fu :)	[22:36]
asciilifeform	aha, extinct!	[22:37]
asciilifeform	reminds me, i gotta get a few moare of those same tyans	[22:37]
asciilifeform	for if this one ever melts.	[22:37]
asciilifeform	(if it blows a filter cap i can replace cap, dead northbridge - no)	[22:37]
kakobrekla	i believe i managed to acquire even more extintier things	[22:37]
asciilifeform	next set of hedgehogs , i expect to machine myself.	[22:37]
asciilifeform	from ingots.	[22:37]
asciilifeform	one day.	[22:38]
kakobrekla	however it took time and luck.	[22:38]
asciilifeform	new hs is not top priority atm for me.	[22:38]
asciilifeform	after all, old ones are clean now.	[22:38]
kakobrekla	i could get a custom adapter machined here if id be in such position prolly	[22:39]
asciilifeform	what i really want is just a 1m long heat pipe from each cpu	[22:39]
asciilifeform	to a 200kg copper hog.	[22:39]
asciilifeform	'if wishes were horses..' (tm)	[22:40]
asciilifeform	pc oughta look like a mains transformer	[22:40]
asciilifeform	the kind on a pole.	[22:40]
asciilifeform	zalman co. made this for a brief spell a decade ago, it did not sell, cost $3k	[22:40]
asciilifeform	turns out there's ~no market for well-made quiet thing, whodavethunkit	[22:41]
asciilifeform	http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/noiseless-computing,741.html << it.	[22:42]
assbot	Noiseless Computing: New Case Innovation From Zalman - Introduction ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasE7i )	[22:42]
kakobrekla	anyway its possible it just takes effort, like i had to buy 50 high end fans to find be-quiet	[22:42]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i've even seen ones with tube amp !	[22:42]
asciilifeform	yes, on the mobo.	[22:42]
kakobrekla	nubbins` yet still garbage	[22:42]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: as far as im concerned if it had ONE moving part, it is rubbish.	[22:43]
asciilifeform	i don't care where.	[22:43]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: presumably it is for folks who habitually blow the amp	[22:43]
kakobrekla	all integrated sound cards are rubbish. ALL of them.	[22:44]
kakobrekla	yes, mine is isolated too and yet it still pops when i tested it. (yes have a dedicated card for this)	[22:45]
assbot	GIGABYTE - Motherboard - Socket 1150 - GA-Z97MX-Gaming 5 (rev. 1.0) ... ( http://bit.ly/1MasYD9 )	[22:45]
kakobrekla	hooked to ~2 grand speakers - however this is not my main listening setup	[22:46]
kakobrekla	audiofool!	[22:46]
kakobrekla	i have some records but not a collector	[22:47]
kakobrekla	i havent bought any in years.	[22:48]
kakobrekla	i only have the old stuff	[22:48]
kakobrekla	the new stuff is digitally recorded and then baked to vinyl	[22:48]
BingoBoingo	kakobrekla: as far as im concerned if it had ONE moving part, it is rubbish. << Aha, this goes to the power tool dilemma where unless paying out the ass everything is made by TTI in china and it is a competition between which TTI reseller do you trust most to preserve their battery platform. Not directly connected to this utterance of yours, but for some reason this is the one brian in the head clicked the thread t	[22:48]
BingoBoingo	ogether on.	[22:48]
*	pete_dushenski off to old theatre to watch monty python	[22:48]
*	pete_dushenski has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:48]
kakobrekla	nubbins` i havent had a record player connected to my setup for years also	[22:49]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1TQp3no )	[22:50]
kakobrekla	nubbins` not my pic but i use this for streaming flacs (with external clock) http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1057680-logitech-modwright-transporter-rare-all-black-finish.jpg	[22:51]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1TQpcaq )	[22:51]
*	p15 (~p15@6.91.145.64.client.static.strong-tk2.bringover.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:51]
kakobrekla	this is the source of the setup.	[22:52]
*	BingoBoingo very thankful in this moment he prefers AM radio for listening to as this avoids very expensive path to financial damnation.	[22:53]
assbot	Arturia - Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1TQpC0c )	[22:54]
kakobrekla	anyway speakers are the most important part and dipole ribbons are where the music is at	[22:55]
kakobrekla	see here http://www.soulsonicspeakers.com/gallery.html	[22:58]
assbot	SoulSonic Speakers ... ( http://bit.ly/1MaufKv )	[22:58]
adlai	BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY6PAkLG2p4	[22:58]
kakobrekla	mine were custom made by this guy, a friend of mine.	[22:58]
assbot	Hot Rod (8/10) Movie CLIP - The King of AM Radio (2007) HD - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Maugy1 )	[22:58]
assbot	Are Audio » Are Audio ... ( http://bit.ly/1Maund5 )	[23:00]
kakobrekla	i cant listen to non-ribbon speakers any more	[23:00]
kakobrekla	utter garbage even if made from diamond	[23:01]
kakobrekla	(cant beat physics)	[23:01]
kakobrekla	no, you should listen to them.	[23:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13393 @ 0.00052311 = 7.006 BTC [+] {2}	[23:03]
kakobrekla	anyway, classical cone tweeters are problematic because of small surface and therefore large surface volume which makes ears bleed	[23:05]
kakobrekla	and there is no way around it but with large surface (and low mass)	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429801 << bwahahah.	[23:06]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 01:13:16; asciilifeform: they might feed the ugly chix to koi	[23:06]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429822 << by now you're prolly well advised to get a performance low freq microphone and inspect the item thoroughly	[23:08]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 01:19:03; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 'Thermaltake Suppressor F-51'	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	(things are used widely in machining to find problems with mechanical movement prototypes)	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429862 << you know, all the "artist" metalworking chicks could prolly make you one to order.	[23:11]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 01:25:31; asciilifeform: i would love to buy a case that is just 200kg of copper hedgehog.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	"first of its kind game of thrones case ; 1/4 ton copper alloy, blades"	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	prolly make it so you can SIT on it, also.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	kinda fun side project, this.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	and yes, eminently crowdfundable.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	give people pictures of you sitting on your casechair for $20 or w/e.	[23:13]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429987 << my ~whole room~ is (yes) isolated. inverter.	[23:25]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 01:45:30; kakobrekla: yes, mine is isolated too and yet it still pops when i tested it. (yes have a dedicated card for this)	[23:25]
kakobrekla	the pops come from other parts of the mobo cant isolate that	[23:25]
kakobrekla	stand alone card doesnt have such issues	[23:25]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430012 << logical	[23:26]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 01:51:20; nubbins`: "we'll have enough to last us until we're dead"	[23:26]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: aha	[23:26]
kakobrekla	(this one http://www.guru3d.com/miraserver/images/2010/titanium-hd/leader.jpg )	[23:26]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1UjJxTI )	[23:26]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430044 << i'ma laser interferometer at it eventually	[23:27]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 02:08:28; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429822 << by now you're prolly well advised to get a performance low freq microphone and inspect the item thoroughly	[23:27]
asciilifeform	BUT i'd really much rathet be rid of all the moving partz!	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	i can't help but think i'm so blessed to not care about fan noise, loudspeakers, monitors et all.	[23:27]
kakobrekla	life is easy for blind and deaf	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	the last time i even used a headphone was months ago	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla totally.	[23:28]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430049 << mno, hs tolerances are sub-mm	[23:28]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 02:11:45; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1429862 << you know, all the "artist" metalworking chicks could prolly make you one to order.	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	i dunno, maybe it's my time looking at ega gfx and appreciating golden axe music on the 8 bit case speaker	[23:28]
asciilifeform	hey i had same	[23:29]
asciilifeform	prolly longer!	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	how sub mm ? pretty sure they can make 0.01ish.	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	this is how all those fancy interlocking metal slav collars get made.	[23:29]
asciilifeform	to me games ~still~ mean msdos.	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	sukatora sassa!	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	now i wanna listen to it lmao	[23:29]
asciilifeform	ahahahaha	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgSEk8kZAu0 totally, check this shit out!	[23:30]
assbot	Sutakora, Sassa! - Golden Axe Music Extended - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1UjJSWx )	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	and i thought it must be some sort of famous tune or w/e ? turns out, no ?	[23:30]
asciilifeform	afaik only in goldenaxe.	[23:31]
mircea_popescu	the things one remembers.	[23:31]
asciilifeform	'Adlib' ftw	[23:31]
mircea_popescu	Pedalavo come se fuggissi, e in realta fuggivo, da lei, da quelle emozioni, da i sogni, da i ricordi, da tutto. E pensavo che dovevo dimenticare. Ero certo che sarei riuscito a dimenticare. Ma oggi che sono vecchio, che ho consumato banalmente la vita, talchè ho conosciuto tante donne che m'hanno detto "ricordati di me" e io le ho scordate tutte, ancora oggi lei, l'unica che non ho mai dimenticato... Sutakora Sassa!	[23:32]
asciilifeform	goldenaxe2 ruled.	[23:32]
kakobrekla	yes, i made friends because of it.	[23:36]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2016#1430052<< cray sofa!!	[23:46]
assbot	Logged on 11-03-2016 02:12:31; mircea_popescu: prolly make it so you can SIT on it, also.	[23:46]
asciilifeform	was a thing, he put the monster power supply there	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	aha	[23:47]
asciilifeform	around the 'horseshoe'	[23:47]
kakobrekla	btw re liquid cooled para capacitance, modern computer gear seem to work in oil immersion setups without any special design	[23:47]
asciilifeform	cray was a titan.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	sorta like the heated water bed. all you wanna do is fuck all the blustery winter day.	[23:48]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: electrolytic caps swell.	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla i remember me saying that and alf being all alf all over it!	[23:48]
asciilifeform	they do tho	[23:48]
kakobrekla	i recall one such setup being operable for years	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	hard to argue with practice yo!	[23:48]
asciilifeform	where?	[23:49]
asciilifeform	and in which liquid	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	crazy gamers everywhere.	[23:49]
*	asciilifeform genuinely curious	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	i never gave that much of a shit, myself	[23:49]
asciilifeform	and 'operable' for gamer means typically slightly diff thing than for me	[23:49]
asciilifeform	(years of 24/7 with no bitrot)	[23:50]
kakobrekla	i recall it was office pc that worked years after installed and no i dont have the link written down anywhere	[23:51]
asciilifeform	what did he do with the disks?	[23:51]
kakobrekla	dont recall	[23:52]
asciilifeform	and how about the ports	[23:52]
asciilifeform	cables glued in?	[23:52]
kakobrekla	why would you glue them	[23:52]
asciilifeform	because sealed oil tank??	[23:52]
kakobrekla	ah i thought glued in sockets	[23:52]
asciilifeform	or, what, ick, open to air, spillable idiocy?	[23:53]
kakobrekla	dont change the argument this has nothing to do with capacitance !	[23:53]
asciilifeform	i wonder if he filled with siloxane	[23:54]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:54]
kakobrekla	anyway i see you want all the upside with no downside	[23:54]
asciilifeform	hell yes.	[23:54]
asciilifeform	thats what i ~do~.	[23:55]
kakobrekla	hence very little solutions.	[23:55]
asciilifeform	aha.	[23:55]
asciilifeform	but when solved - solved.	[23:55]
asciilifeform	it's a thing...	[23:55]
kakobrekla	more if than when.	[23:55]
asciilifeform	unfortunately.	[23:56]
asciilifeform	ars longa .. (tm)	[23:56]
asciilifeform	for half-solutions, call up yer local halfsolutionmart! it will provide!	[23:57]
kakobrekla	sometimes 95% solution will be better than no solution at all	[23:58]

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