Forum logs for 10 Dec 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.12800001 = 1.28 BTC [+] [00:04]
mircea_popescu or hell, loot the nearest shoe store for some nikes if that's all you can muster << petty crime is really a very poor plan. [00:09]
mircea_popescu how many u.s. expats are willing to, say, break their backs doing actual work for the locals ? << all women that i ever met. srsly. [00:10]
mircea_popescu ;;rate EPiSKiNG- 1 New blood :p [00:11]
gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user EPiSKiNG- has been recorded. [00:11]
decimation there is plenty of 'hard work' going on in the us, just misdirected [00:11]
mircea_popescu !up EPiSKiNG- [00:11]
-assbot- You voiced EPiSKiNG- for 30 minutes. [00:11]
* assbot gives voice to EPiSKiNG- [00:11]
mircea_popescu there you go. [00:11]
decimation !up badon [00:11]
* assbot gives voice to badon [00:11]
mircea_popescu decimation quite. [00:12]
thestringpuller !t m s.qntr [00:12]
assbot [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00015 / 0.00015943 / 0.00016 (5300 shares, 0.85 BTC) [00:12]
mircea_popescu Is there a similar procedure for ECDSA? << sort-of. the exponent is ideally chosen randomly as well as the index. [00:13]
decimation Yeah I am going to have to work it out for myself it seems [00:13]
decimation using the secp256k1 parameters [00:13]
mircea_popescu tho i am very suspicious of ecdsa for what you'd call "political" reasons. [00:15]
mircea_popescu as in, notscientific. [00:15]
decimation yeah, I agree [00:15]
mircea_popescu but there's also some scienfitic doubt. you really don't know a) how good a "random curve" is n the generla case ; b) you don't really know how to calculate the quality of a good curve. [00:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform's fond of pointing out to the pi problem of "random numbers", ie, for all you know xth index of pi digits is random [00:16]
mircea_popescu for FUCKING OBVIOUS reasons, such as... the involvement of pi! this is true for curves too. [00:16]
decimation yeah this is why RSA seems more compelling [00:16]
decimation people have been banging their heads against factoring large primes for a long time [00:16]
mircea_popescu there's also that. [00:17]
mircea_popescu in fact the reason why we favour rsa is quite long. [00:17]
mircea_popescu list of reasons* [00:17]
decimation I can see why satoshi avoided using the nist curves, but using ecc in general was probably a bad move [00:17]
decimation it's true it greatly reduced the size of the blockchain, but at what cost? [00:18]
mircea_popescu well, he hedged his bets. [00:18]
mircea_popescu ecdsa alone isn't enough to breach it. [00:18]
mircea_popescu it has to be said, again and again, lest anyone forgets : this was designed as a prototype. [00:18]
mircea_popescu it's what it is. [00:18]
TomServo ha! did orlov crib 'infinite hit points? [00:18]
mircea_popescu he did ? [00:19]
TomServo Consider this: knowledge is always limited and specific, but ignorance is infinite and completely general; knowledge is hard to convey, and travels no faster than the speed of light, but ignorance is instantaneous at all points in the known and unknown universe, including alternate universes and dimensions of whose existence we are entirely ignorant. In short, there is a limit to how much you can [00:20]
TomServo know, but there is no limit at all to how much you don't know but think you do! [00:20]
asciilifeform factoring large primes << l0l! i'll factor any large prime for you, free! limited time 0ff3r! [00:20]
mircea_popescu eh i don't have a lien on that. [00:20]
TomServo Just immediately reminded me of it is all. [00:21]
decimation asciilifeform: sorry, I mean factoring large composites :) [00:21]
mircea_popescu lol [00:21]
mircea_popescu such a stickler is he :D [00:21]
asciilifeform laugh, but bill gates referred to the great unsolved problem 'factoring large primes' in one of 'his' 'books', in dead tree print. [00:22]
mircea_popescu TomServo it does link nicely. [00:22]
decimation orlov is right that wages haven't increased, but prices have fallen [00:24]
decimation at least, for food and computers [00:25]
asciilifeform re: public key: incidentally, agitprop! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/03/gchq_boffins_quantumbusted_own_crypto_primitive [00:25]
assbot GCHQ boffins quantum-busted its OWN crypto primitive • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1uipowx ) [00:25]
mircea_popescu not for food, per se. [00:25]
decimation yeah, for 'food' [00:25]
mircea_popescu just, they found ways to repackage cheaper shit as food. [00:25]
asciilifeform and 'computers' [00:25]
decimation I was pricing a nice wild-caught salmon from alaska, goes for $20 per lb at the cheap rate [00:25]
mircea_popescu my own personal opinion is you're taking that too far. srsly, current cpus are worth 80 2014 dollars [00:25]
mircea_popescu if a z80 was worth 40 1980 dollars. [00:26]
asciilifeform for numeric wrangling, sure, i'll take 2014. see last week's thread. [00:26]
asciilifeform for overall quality of life - 1980. [00:26]
mircea_popescu i thought you were kinda arguing both ends of a candle here :p [00:26]
asciilifeform it's burning on both ends! [00:27]
mircea_popescu so blow. [00:27]
decimation the problem is that 2014 has 1980 built into is core, under layers of 'tardation [00:27]
mircea_popescu but faster bus :D [00:27]
BingoBoingo It's a fucking candle, piss it out. [00:27]
asciilifeform 1980 built into its core << only the bad parts [00:27]
decimation heh yeah [00:27]
mircea_popescu you can't argue with that part. they got really good at printing them. [00:28]
decimation no lisp machine in an x86 [00:28]
mircea_popescu these specific things, like the quality of paints... [00:28]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform dja recall soviet paints of the 80s ? [00:28]
mircea_popescu that maroon ? [00:28]
asciilifeform aha [00:28]
asciilifeform there's a post office here where i live now, that seems to have been painted with the very same paints [00:28]
mircea_popescu those shitty plastics of the era... not really very mouldable... [00:29]
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decimation I know for certain that nazi-era IG farben was way ahead of the world in paint technology at the time [00:31]
mircea_popescu decimation: why would iranian ministry of nukes run winblows <<< recall that buenos aires pantalla ? [00:31]
mircea_popescu they run it because they're not smart enough to even figure there's away out of the paper bag, as a principle. [00:32]
BingoBoingo !up Vexual [00:32]
* assbot gives voice to Vexual [00:32]
asciilifeform http://imgur.com/79DTA7H << 'no parking' sign outside of that post office. (i don't presently have a photo of the inside.) [00:34]
assbot imgur: the simple image sharer ... ( http://bit.ly/1uiruMX ) [00:34]
decimation http://imgur.com/79DTA7H << "By 2020, current cost trends will lead to an average cost of between $15 billion and $20 billion for a leading-edge fab, according to the report. By 2016, the minimum capital expenditure budget needed to justify the building of a new fab will range from $8 billion to $10 billion for logic, $3.5 billion to $4.5 billion for DRAM and $6 billion to $7 billion for NAND flash, according to the report." [00:35]
assbot imgur: the simple image sharer ... ( http://bit.ly/1uirH2T ) [00:35]
mircea_popescu decimation "at the time" for 1940 tho. [00:35]
decimation this strikes me as more limiting than physics [00:35]
mircea_popescu i linked aus dem leben der marionetten here yest. [00:36]
mircea_popescu if you're curious to get a feel for the actual flavour of everyday bvack then, it's a good primer. [00:36]
mircea_popescu all those lightbulbs and whatnot. [00:36]
Vexual now the koreans are making the best limo at the best price, just coz they can [00:38]
asciilifeform i see no light bulbs in that article. are they inside the arses ? [00:38]
mircea_popescu they're in teh film [00:39]
mircea_popescu whoever did the decors put a shitton of intelligent work in [00:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64100 @ 0.00050754 = 32.5333 BTC [-] [00:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.0005116 = 9.26 BTC [+] [00:41]
decimation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN-HIA4H1vA << even street urchins wore jackets in new york ca. 1900 [00:41]
assbot New York City Street Scene Easter 1900 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1wZqK6m ) [00:41]
* assbot removes voice from EPiSKiNG- [00:42]
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Vexual t-shirts are a recent invention [00:42]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2012/das-schlangenei/ << also good. perhaps actually better. [00:42]
assbot Das Schlangenei pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1wZqRPv ) [00:42]
mircea_popescu you know, lightbulbs going out, visibly. because back then ? they did. [00:42]
Vexual slowly? [00:43]
mircea_popescu (also bergman) [00:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70082 @ 0.00051256 = 35.9212 BTC [+] {2} [00:44]
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mircea_popescu it just occured to me that b-a is actually the only place on the english web where german, russian,french, spanish etc are not merely spoken, [00:44]
mircea_popescu but the respective cultures actually accessible and tied in. [00:44]
mircea_popescu at least afaik the only place. [00:44]
asciilifeform we have a german ? [00:45]
mircea_popescu no but we like them :D [00:46]
mircea_popescu anyway, i'm from transylvania, i could as 1/3 german. [00:46]
Vexual mircea runs a mercedes [00:46]
mircea_popescu jurov's from slovakia, that's like 1/2 german, and kako's somalia is an ex german colony. so like 1/6 [00:46]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 1/3 + 1/2 + 1/6 [00:46]
gribble 1.0 [00:46]
mircea_popescu win. [00:46]
decimation Ich spreche einbisschen Deutch [00:46]
decimation my family is nearly all from germany, but they stopped teaching their kids the language around wwii (in the us) [00:47]
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mircea_popescu decimation afaik about 40% of the us is actually from germany at some point [00:48]
decimation yes, the majority of 'white people' in the us are german [00:48]
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decimation which is why the englishers had to squash that shit [00:48]
mircea_popescu anyway, quick quiz : who is the first person to have spoken german in public in israel post ww2 ? [00:48]
Vexual was he in physics? [00:48]
decimation eh? weren't nearly all the 'returning jews' from german backgrounds? [00:49]
decimation http://forward.com/articles/154277/jews-stream-back-to-germany/?p=all << "But under German law since May 1949, any Jew — or the descendants of such a Jew — who fled Nazi Germany has the right to become a naturalized German" [00:53]
assbot Jews Stream Back to Germany – Forward.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1uivnlc ) [00:53]
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decimation academic/media/civil servant complex is the us is chattering about increasing the gas tax, since prices have nearly halved [01:04]
decimation no talk about rebalancing spending to cover the shortfall [01:04]
mthreat there's also people asking if the US fracking companies will be "bailed out" [01:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10250 @ 0.00050723 = 5.1991 BTC [-] [01:10]
decimation mthreat: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/opecs-no-to-oil-production-cut-dents-crude-prices-3-energy-funds-to-dump-mutual-fund-commentary-cm419481 [01:14]
assbot OPEC's No to Oil Production Cut Dents Crude Prices: 3 Energy Funds to Dump - Mutual Fund Commentary - NASDAQ.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1uiAf9P ) [01:15]
TomServo http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/12/09/daily-circuit-transportation-funding [01:15]
assbot Transportation chief: $1 billion surplus can't fix road problems | Minnesota Public Radio News ... ( http://bit.ly/1uiAhi0 ) [01:15]
decimation opec is dumping oil to kill the fracking producers in the us [01:15]
TomServo Aye - 20-40% fewer well permits being reported, depending on production area. [01:17]
decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-11-2014#931330 [01:18]
assbot Logged on 22-11-2014 04:04:57; mircea_popescu: you familiar with the "giant stool" approach to economics ? [01:18]
decimation opec wants to grow into a giant to squash the midgets in oil [01:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39700 @ 0.00051437 = 20.4205 BTC [+] {3} [01:20]
PeterL is opec not already a giant? [01:21]
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decimation yes, and they can embiggen themselves to squash any troublesome midgets for a period of time [01:22]
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mats i wonder how putin feels about it [01:30]
asciilifeform http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/ws/660/amz/worldservice/live/assets/images/2014/12/06/141206063050_putin_poster_624x351_ap.jpg [01:30]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1uiDVIE ) [01:30]
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BingoBoingo http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2014/12/09/the-richest-man-in-russia-bought-james-watsons-nobel-prize-just-so-he-could-return-it/ [01:31]
assbot The richest man in Russia bought James Watson’s Nobel prize just so he could return it - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1uiEja5 ) [01:32]
decimation BingoBoingo: that's awesome [01:33]
asciilifeform lol! [01:34]
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asciilifeform picture if - the equalistas will step up their game now. i recall there already was talk of (soviet-style!) revocation of watson's degrees. [01:41]
decimation asciilifeform: such a development would be welcome, as it would require a press release with names attached [01:42]
BingoBoingo Ah, the greatest protest Watson could undertake would be to sell his nobel annually [01:42]
asciilifeform and his (alleged) plan to buy back 'respectability' with money is uncharacteristically foolish [01:42]
mircea_popescu eh? weren't nearly all the 'returning jews' from german backgrounds? << yep. [01:43]
[]bot Bet placed: 2.00000001 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before Feb 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1080/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 8.43248982 BTC. Current weight: 89,167. [01:43]
asciilifeform who bribes inquisitors ? [01:43]
BingoBoingo and his (alleged) plan to buy back 'respectability' with money is uncharacteristically foolish << Respect comes from the buyers returning it, like the many "Gems" [01:43]
asciilifeform he did not know that it would be returned. [01:44]
asciilifeform said, supposedly, that he will buy back into respectability with the money. [01:44]
BingoBoingo Ah [01:44]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> and his (alleged) plan to buy back 'respectability' with money is uncharacteristically foolish << i didn't read any such plan in there. just, "i want money" "what for ?" "fuck you lol: [01:45]
asciilifeform he did utter 'will use it to return to public life' [01:45]
BingoBoingo But now Watson can surmise he will be saved by stotting behavior until the one time he isn't [01:45]
decimation nah he said he would give it to a few institutions [01:45]
asciilifeform and did, iirc, mention donations to various academitrons [01:45]
mircea_popescu more like "this should do x" [01:45]
mircea_popescu he didn't seem to want to personally do anything past telling the others what they should be doing [01:45]
asciilifeform giving money to his tormentors looks like pure nuttery [01:45]
mircea_popescu admittedly, the traditional behaviour of intellectual types. [01:46]
mircea_popescu understand old man psychology : the whole world is made out of younger men [01:46]
mircea_popescu and for this reason, his toermentors. [01:46]
decimation http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/41594/title/Watson-Sells-Nobel-for--4-1M/ "Watson told The New York Times that he planned to donate most of the proceeds from the sale to academic institutions, including the University of Chicago, which he attended as an undergraduate; Indiana University, where he earned his PhD; Cambridge, where he and Crick worked; and Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory. “The sale is to support [01:46]
decimation and empower scientific discovery,” he said." [01:46]
assbot Watson Sells Nobel for $4.1M | The Scientist Magazine® ... ( http://bit.ly/1D7jrgj ) [01:46]
mircea_popescu he will ~talk about~ giving them money. [01:46]
asciilifeform but in actuality, mail it to 'isis' ? [01:47]
decimation yeah he was unspecific about the amounts - "most" [01:47]
mircea_popescu he was also going to buy some painting [01:48]
* asciilifeform thinks he understands old man psychology very well [01:48]
mircea_popescu dithering, basically. [01:48]
* asciilifeform had birthday a few days ago [01:48]
mircea_popescu cast a wide net of tormentors looking for a handout, watch em squirm basically. [01:48]
mircea_popescu lol how old does that make you ? [01:48]
asciilifeform 31 + epsilon [01:48]
decimation all of those except maybe cold spring will waste it on stupid shit [01:49]
mircea_popescu that's not so old. [01:49]
mircea_popescu you could do a lot better! [01:49]
asciilifeform lol [01:49]
mircea_popescu next year... [01:49]
asciilifeform ;;google you're older than you've ever been [01:50]
gribble Older - They Might Be Giants (Best Version) - YouTube: ; Older - They Might Be Giants (official video) - YouTube: ; Lyrics:Older - TMBW: The They Might Be Giants Knowledge Base: [01:50]
decimation for instance, Indiana University has floated the idea of starting an engineering school http://www.idsnews.com/article/2014/11/committee-to-explore-engineering-program-at-iu-bloomington [01:50]
assbot Indiana Daily Student: :: ​Committee to explore engineering program at IU-Bloomington [01:50]
decimation "Of the 62 universities in the Association of American Universities, only four do not have programs in engineering, according to the plan. Of those four, two have joint programs in engineering with other institutions." [01:52]
decimation but everyone else does it!! [01:52]
asciilifeform on one hand, old man feels old, envies young impotently, etc. on the other - has impulse for 'last hurrah.' word is that e. teller dreamed of presiding over a nukefest until the day he died. [01:53]
asciilifeform to 'go out with a bang.' [01:53]
decimation if watson wanted to 'go out with a bang' he would find the right young men to found an institute that explicitly is an enemy of his idio-cratic critics [01:54]
BingoBoingo Or he'd do the Jurassic park, breed theme park monsters thing [01:56]
asciilifeform about equally doable. [01:56]
asciilifeform and for approximately same reasons. [01:56]
BingoBoingo Actual dinosaurs impossible. Theme park monsters with vague resemblance to dinosaurs could probably be done in a decade or two if anyone cared to go monsanto on chickens [01:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00050889 = 12.9258 BTC [-] [02:02]
decimation yeah as Mr. Yarvin enjoys pointing out, the past is dead, cannot live again [02:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59200 @ 0.00052146 = 30.8704 BTC [+] {4} [02:03]
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BingoBoingo That's actually the line the Jurassic park sequels take when dinosaur feathers happened to become the consensus-ish thing IRL [02:06]
PeterL http://xkcd.com/1211/ [02:12]
assbot xkcd: Birds and Dinosaurs ... ( http://bit.ly/1uiMbZh ) [02:12]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00052508 = 3.8331 BTC [+] [02:23]
asciilifeform incidentally, german phrase of the day: [02:29]
asciilifeform verscharfte vernehmung. [02:29]
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BingoBoingo http://wapc.mlb.com/cutfour/2014/12/08/103552062/adam-wainwright-apologizes-to-fantasy-baseball-players-for-missing-final-start [02:41]
assbot Adam Wainwright apologizes to fantasy baseball players for missing final start | MLB.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1uiRR5l ) [02:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21450 @ 0.00052529 = 11.2675 BTC [+] {2} [02:47]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 127 @ 0.00857331 = 1.0888 BTC [+] {2} [02:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33000 @ 0.00052727 = 17.3999 BTC [+] {2} [02:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00050889 = 7.7351 BTC [-] [03:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00052754 = 1.3189 BTC [+] [03:14]
ben_vulpes okay 700 log lines. go! [03:22]
ben_vulpes ;;rate jyap 1 https://twitter.com/jyap/status/542409148323741697 << easy come easy go lol [03:24]
assbot I hope he comes here to tell us how "gpg is not user friendly and too hard." /jyap http://t.co/w1PgofiYzc /hashtag/bitcoin?src=hash-assets /ElectrumWallet [03:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55900 @ 0.00052756 = 29.4906 BTC [+] {2} [03:25]
ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: ad nauseum << lol! [03:26]
ben_vulpes it's this social progress thing << sounds like it's time to have another dinner party [03:27]
ben_vulpes ;;ident mats [03:28]
gribble Nick 'mats', with hostmask 'mats!sid23029@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jxahmfiunuuiztjr', is identified as user 'mats', with GPG key id B9527964891A5566, key fingerprint B37F49DC35FD838B1F8783CC59C93F63549036BD, and bitcoin address None [03:28]
ben_vulpes ;;gettrust assbot mats [03:28]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask mats!sid23029@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jxahmfiunuuiztjr. Trust relationship from user assbot to user mats: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=mats | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mats | Rated since: Thu Jun 19 20:47:48 2014 [03:28]
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ben_vulpes ah i think i recall now. [03:29]
mircea_popescu used to be mats_something [03:34]
ben_vulpes mats_cd03 [03:34]
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ben_vulpes well my having not done it doesn't matter as i'm no longer a lord << when did this happen? [03:38]
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ben_vulpes decimation: "street urchins" << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzT8EqhuYxA moar tenements, i say! [03:47]
assbot Tenement Life 1860-1910 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1sbDm9v ) [03:47]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [14:01]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [14:01]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [14:01]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [14:01]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [14:02]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1041 @ 0.0012 = 1.2492 BTC [14:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.00058371 = 3.8817 BTC [-] [14:05]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to win vs S&P 500" http://bitbet.us/bet/989/ Odds: 31(Y):69(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.32410779 BTC. Current weight: 16,370. [14:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1750 @ 0.0012 = 2.1 BTC [14:07]
mircea_popescu punkman no notary still ? [14:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11177 @ 0.00058371 = 6.5241 BTC [-] [14:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1300 @ 0.0012 = 1.56 BTC [14:14]
mircea_popescu Namworld send me teh fb data if it's done (seems to be ?) [14:16]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 4957 @ 0.0012 = 5.9484 BTC [14:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10671 @ 0.0006401 = 6.8305 BTC [+] {2} [14:48]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 3766 @ 0.0012 = 4.5192 BTC [14:52]
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Namworld I just checked, it's about 3/4th of the way through. [14:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6908 @ 0.00066468 = 4.5916 BTC [+] [15:06]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 2000 @ 0.0012 = 2.4 BTC [15:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29000 @ 0.00061962 = 17.969 BTC [-] [15:14]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1009 @ 0.0012 = 1.2108 BTC {3} [15:27]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00121935 = 1.2194 BTC [+] [15:27]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 8118 @ 0.0012 = 9.7416 BTC {2} [15:55]
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mircea_popescu Namworld ah kk ty [15:56]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 4210 @ 0.00121935 = 5.1335 BTC [-] [16:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40000 @ 0.00064862 = 25.9448 BTC [+] [16:09]
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* assbot gives voice to dignork [16:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19173 @ 0.00061945 = 11.8767 BTC [-] {2} [16:12]
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nubbins` http://imgur.com/alOGguf [16:19]
assbot imgur: the simple image sharer ... ( http://bit.ly/1x3431c ) [16:19]
assbot Russian circus attaches 'dead' hamsters to balloons and DROPS them as 'gifts' | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1x34gS3 ) [16:20]
nubbins` lel [16:21]
nubbins` russian "circus" throws dead rats in jars at children [16:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66871 @ 0.00057701 = 38.5852 BTC [-] {4} [16:22]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.14075 = 2.815 BTC [-] {2} [16:32]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26727 @ 0.00062562 = 16.7209 BTC [+] {2} [16:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16642 @ 0.00068095 = 11.3324 BTC [+] {2} [16:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17308 @ 0.00069042 = 11.9498 BTC [+] [16:41]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10957 @ 0.0002 = 2.1914 BTC [-] {21} [16:53]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7877 @ 0.00018133 = 1.4283 BTC [-] {38} [16:59]
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thestringpuller $depth mpoe [17:18]
empyex thestringpuller: Want a bash? http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=26 Or use a valid MPSIC! [17:18]
thestringpuller $depth s.mpoe [17:18]
empyex thestringpuller: [S.MPOE] Bids: 11123 @ 0.00064896 1500 @ 0.00056345 23817 @ 0.00056344 31631 @ 0.00055679 [17:18]
empyex thestringpuller: [S.MPOE] Asks: 46700 @ 0.00065278 64200 @ 0.00066432 28551 @ 0.00068328 52200 @ 0.00068937 [17:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 930 @ 0.0012 = 1.116 BTC [17:20]
thestringpuller notary is down for extended maintenance I thought. [17:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10473 @ 0.00064896 = 6.7966 BTC [-] [17:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35827 @ 0.00065246 = 23.3757 BTC [+] {2} [17:32]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2420 @ 0.00121799 = 2.9475 BTC [+] {2} [17:42]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7754 @ 0.00014999 = 1.163 BTC [-] {3} [17:50]
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mircea_popescu iirc was last weekend. anyway. [18:02]
thestringpuller punkman: you got some 'splainin to do! [18:02]
thestringpuller jkjk [18:02]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00063602 = 7.7594 BTC [-] [18:06]
mircea_popescu 63s now huh ? [18:14]
thestringpuller it's because you announced the mircea_popescu stimulus package [18:14]
mircea_popescu oidid ? [18:14]
thestringpuller Haha. I was just imagining you as Bitcoin's Obama. It was funnier in my head because of the implied irony. [18:16]
thestringpuller But whatever. [18:16]
mircea_popescu i thought this was ghoing to be a sex joke. [18:16]
thestringpuller that probably would have been a better avenue [18:16]
thestringpuller i get booed off the stage when I do stand up :( [18:16]
mircea_popescu "the mp stimulus package", http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/pula_mea2s.jpg [18:16]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBYJFF ) [18:16]
thestringpuller shemlessly opened in the middle of a training session at work [18:17]
mircea_popescu that'll train ya. [18:19]
thestringpuller I wish my teacher was a porn star teaching the class naked. [18:20]
mircea_popescu whjat class is it anyway [18:20]
thestringpuller mandatory training for onboarding on this company [18:20]
thestringpuller it's like Google's Bootcamp, but for this company (VMWare) [18:20]
mircea_popescu aha [18:21]
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mircea_popescu cazalla who was John Powell in bitcoin-terms ? [18:29]
mircea_popescu punkman: 10 GBP for truck mail? that's highway robbery <<< no, it's... AIRWAY ROBBERY [18:30]
mircea_popescu har har har [18:30]
assbot Art Student Hand-Illuminates, Binds a Copy of Tolkien's Silmarillion | MAKE ... ( http://bit.ly/1IC1ZAR ) [18:31]
mircea_popescu punkman: yeah and maybe indian/chinese guy watered field with sewage << actually good for it. [18:31]
mircea_popescu whoa nubbins` now you have to hire that guy [18:31]
mircea_popescu or marry him. [18:31]
mircea_popescu http://blog.bettercrypto.com/?p=1004 << this by the way is an excellent write-up. anyone know the guy / invite him over ? [18:34]
assbot Controversy Around Bitcoin Elliptic Curve | Financial Cryptography, Bitcoin, Crypto Currencies ... ( http://bit.ly/1IC2A5J ) [18:34]
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mircea_popescu "unanimous allergic reactions when serious security questions are raised by uninvited academics" [18:36]
mircea_popescu heh. [18:36]
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kakobrekla was there a new ssh vuln found past 24hrs? [18:38]
mircea_popescu "ERROR: JavaScript and Cookies are required in order to post a comment. [18:39]
mircea_popescu Please be sure JavaScript and Cookies are enabled in your browser." [18:39]
mircea_popescu derpistan. [18:39]
cazalla mircea_popescu, dunno yet, no court docs online, not entered in offender search yet either [18:40]
asciilifeform ecdsa curves, 'nothing up my sleeve' constants << think back to the legend with the 'randomly wired' neural net. if secp256k1 (or, another example, aes s-boxes) have sufficiently broad classes of 'weak key' - then all you need to do is find a simple, e.g., sqrt(2), whatever, 'sleeve constant' that impresses the fools. [18:40]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [18:42]
nubbins` jurov "he hand-illuminated the text which had been printed on his home Canon inkjet printer. He worked with a binder to assemble the resulting book." [18:42]
mircea_popescu so the guy that wrote that otherwise interesting post : 1) aslo wrote http://blog.bettercrypto.com/?p=640 , a complete misrepresentation of the tim swhatever incident ; 2) runs a blog where you need cookies/js to leave him a comment pointing out that no, he's not extempt from the common requirements of "know what you're talking about before you posture" ; 3) has a contact page where i could donate btc to him (or ltc he [18:42]
mircea_popescu h), but which does not include his email, or his pgp key. [18:42]
assbot Bitcoin Security and Cryptography: Reasons to Worry | Financial Cryptography, Bitcoin, Crypto Currencies ... ( http://bit.ly/1umah5a ) [18:42]
mircea_popescu how the fuck do these people expect to survive, seriously ? [18:42]
nubbins` dude uses a canon ;/ [18:42]
mircea_popescu i get it, he's a "google scholar" and he has patents. whopee. [18:42]
nubbins` and didn't even bind it himself! [18:42]
nubbins` what kind of art preschool did he attend?! [18:42]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform atm im trying to discern whether the recent "secp256k1" talk is simply the defeated nsa trying to find a better reason to fork bitcoin, or these derps actualy have something. [18:43]
mircea_popescu but they're so fucking derpy they're not helping me, as itemized above. [18:43]
asciilifeform 'one cannot safely just ignore the advice of the cryptographic community about the elliptic curves. Not taking these questions seriously is bad, potentially a gross professional misconduct, and one could in theory even go to prison for that on the basis of some existing laws, for example safeguards rule in the US Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act...' << obey or gasenwagen! [18:43]
mircea_popescu heh. [18:43]
cazalla mircea_popescu, there is http://i.imgur.com/55MwjMX.png too [18:43]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1umaxkR ) [18:43]
cazalla wonder why they didn't mention drugs in the news article [18:44]
mircea_popescu srsly, he keeps linking to reddit thinking/pretending to think he's engaging bitcoin thereby. [18:44]
mircea_popescu so much nuttery. [18:44]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I'm wrestling with my PACER login to find some filings in the Powel case [18:45]
mircea_popescu cool. [18:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform still, i can see the argument that "7" is not safe just for being you know, the number of holes on your body. [18:47]
mircea_popescu i wonder, if i say Dr. Nicolas T. Courtois will this then be the first hit on his name tomorrow or something ? [18:49]
mircea_popescu anyway, birdy whispers in my ear guy's from group that came up with the original xls aes attack. definitely more standing than tim swanson or w/e. [18:51]
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asciilifeform 'there is like 30 papers each year published in cryptographic literature in which cryptosystems fail exactly because they use small integers...' << ahahaha. what a brazen and deliberate confusion. bringing up rsa coppersmith attack in thread on unrelated cryptosystem. [18:52]
mircea_popescu but the principle remains. "small integers" are not in fact either small or integers but for our perspective. [18:53]
mircea_popescu they're just numbers, like any other numbers, exactly so. [18:53]
mircea_popescu !up rdymac [18:55]
-assbot- You voiced rdymac for 30 minutes. [18:55]
* assbot gives voice to rdymac [18:55]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform (incidentally, coppersmith didn't think much of the xsl thing) [18:56]
BingoBoingo Finally got the login sorted out, vague indictment was vague [18:57]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo they can put people away without even saying what for huh. [18:58]
BingoBoingo Well, Indictment lists the charges as money transmission stuff, and "possession of marijuana with intention to distribute" [18:59]
BingoBoingo Going to read more [18:59]
mircea_popescu heh [18:59]
mircea_popescu so the guy had a bag big enough is it ? [18:59]
mircea_popescu iirc that's what intent is predicated on [19:00]
asciilifeform questionable attacks on aes, etc << there are stables of ops grunts paid to sow disinfo - false research leads, general-purpose 'fud' for the academic community, promotion of sensational mystery meats ('badbios' !), etc. [19:00]
asciilifeform a bag big enough >> : [19:01]
asciilifeform !s toilet tank [19:01]
assbot 7 results for 'toilet tank' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=toilet+tank [19:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.00064487 = 18.1208 BTC [+] {2} [19:02]
BingoBoingo So many sealed documents. Apparently last employed April 2008 making $10k/month [19:02]
BingoBoingo 2006 Hyundai Sonata [19:02]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform sure. which is why it's so difficult to discern. [19:03]
mircea_popescu obviously, honest man would be in wot rather than sitting at the fringe arguing about how him being in the thief seats is wholly immaterial, he's just there for the view, comfort and etc. [19:04]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sometimes, the buggers 'go into tilt' and make it laughably easy. that piece reads as if it had been written by mr. spamgun himself. [19:04]
BingoBoingo The fuckers, part of his pre-trial release conditions was a prohibition on alcohol, 21st amendment yo! [19:04]
mircea_popescu i still dunno why we'd believe 7 is a good exponent [19:05]
mircea_popescu rather than whatever any other one. [19:05]
mircea_popescu obviously, this is no reason to change anything, but as an intellectual pursuit. [19:05]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo basically they're just begging for attention at this point. [19:05]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lol, i didn't pick the 7! but i dare to guess that it was chosen out of spite. [19:06]
mircea_popescu i didn't pick it either, and i am thankful for not having had to. [19:06]
mircea_popescu i certainly am not about to go over the man's picks and "improve em". [19:06]
mircea_popescu but even an ant may wonder. [19:06]
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BingoBoingo Here's the defendan't blog http://sharethezing.blogspot.com/ [19:10]
assbot Share The Zing ... ( http://bit.ly/1umeE0m ) [19:10]
cazalla is this related to ddos guy or just random http://dpaste.com/0DZR5J9 ? [19:10]
assbot dpaste: 0DZR5J9 ... ( http://bit.ly/1umeGoT ) [19:10]
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BingoBoingo One of the presentencing documents is a prinout of the fucking wikipedia page on Bitcoin [19:11]
mircea_popescu cazalla sems random spam [19:12]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo which court is this ? [19:12]
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BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: US Central District of Illinois [19:13]
mircea_popescu idiots. [19:13]
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BingoBoingo The entire witness list consists of one item "Group of Photos" [19:14]
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BingoBoingo And some illegible name with them Luke something or other [19:15]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1300 @ 0.001205 = 1.5665 BTC [-] {5} [19:16]
BingoBoingo And... he plead guilty [19:16]
mircea_popescu on advice from his court-provided or else court-owned scamlawyer [19:17]
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mircea_popescu the crowd of vultures pretending to represent people's interests in the us courts while strictly representing the court's interest in people's lives is one of the most underrated problems of that country. [19:18]
mircea_popescu it's like nigeria, except in nigeria you can't find dentists. in the us you can't find lawyers. [19:18]
BingoBoingo I'm guessing court appointed, but no way to tell. The only interesting filing was his handwritten filing pre sentencing. [19:18]
BingoBoingo Also the "Statement of Reasons" last filing is also unavailable [19:20]
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undata that top qntra article is sad. [19:27]
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undata I was working on my own crypto-only exchange for a bit, then thought better of it since I don't have piles of money for lawyers [19:28]
BingoBoingo Not much in the documents other than how evil it is to plea guilty because it lets prosecutors become lazy [19:28]
undata looks like I made the right choice [19:28]
undata side note: bitswap.io is for sale :p [19:28]
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mircea_popescu the more interesting tyhing is that BingoBoingo is practically becoming a field-trained paralegal. [19:31]
BingoBoingo Well, I'm already a university trained librarian. The rest is just getting a vague idea of what the law shit means [19:31]
mircea_popescu i guess so. [19:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.00064929 = 2.4998 BTC [+] [19:33]
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BingoBoingo Well, the university training wasn't much other than social justice derping as a minority. [19:36]
BingoBoingo *surviving [19:36]
BingoBoingo Because when they are in the majority the social justic derps oppress, just less competently [19:38]
BingoBoingo Which is to everyone's detriment. [19:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16476 @ 0.0006518 = 10.7391 BTC [+] [19:40]
* BingoBoingo may have called out fellow students for hating on the Football team, by suggested they we hating the way those young men expressed their gender... [19:43]
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* BingoBoingo also might have suggested the derps were racist for hating the football team because it is one of the most prominent means by which young african americans can achieve upwards social mobility [19:45]
mats yeah, and joining the military. [19:46]
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BingoBoingo Yeah there's that too. [19:46]
mats your chances of killing yourself are roughly half! [19:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00065278 = 8.4209 BTC [+] [19:47]
BingoBoingo I know football presents a greater chance of disability for much more imaginary future money [19:47]
adlai do we finally see potus for what it is, just another role on a stage? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95KTrtzOY-g [19:47]
assbot The Colbert Report - President Obama Delivers The Decree - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlbEbb ) [19:47]
mats yeah, what is it, like two in three NFL players end up broke after leaving the league? [19:47]
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mats o wow. even higher. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/story/2012-04-22/Pro-athletes-and-financial-trouble/54465664/1 [19:48]
assbot Pro athletes and financial trouble – USATODAY.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Glc0OR ) [19:48]
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mats > Sports Illustrated estimated in 2009 that 78 percent of NFL players are bankrupt or facing serious financial stress within two years of ending their playing careers and that 60percent of NBA players are broke within five years of retiring from the game. [19:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1667 @ 0.0012 = 2.0004 BTC [19:50]
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BingoBoingo Yeah, they get that access to so much money so fast [19:52]
undata probably not a profession that selects for intelligence to begin with, and it runs a high risk of frontal lobe injury [19:53]
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ben_vulpes and who said slavery and gladiation was dead!? [19:53]
BingoBoingo undata: Well, pretty much any impact related brain injury is possible. Because helmets make people Invincible! Who cares about physics. [19:54]
undata BingoBoingo: heh, they even use that animation of the two helmets colliding [19:55]
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BingoBoingo Even though the players aren't allowed to do that anymore because it is "Targeting" and justifies suspending the SEC sacks leader mid game so Alabama won't have to suffer the possibility of a close game. [19:56]
mats the NFL should just get rid of helmets. [19:56]
BingoBoingo Prolly, or go back to the doofy leather things [19:57]
undata I need a word for this. It's such a common Americanism. [19:57]
undata football *certainly isn't* about watching idiots injure each other [19:57]
undata like child beauty pagents *certainly aren't* weird quasi-child-porn [19:58]
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undata ah Orwell already treated it as "war is peace" [19:58]
undata BingoBoingo: mats: or just accept that what we're doing is watching people fuck each other up [19:59]
undata at least the UFC has very little pretense about that [19:59]
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mats meh. i don't watch sports on television. [20:00]
BingoBoingo The UFC sucks because the matchups aren't competative. [20:00]
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mats things i do watch: Homeland, The Newsroom, New Girl, Sons of Anarchy, Psycho Pass [20:02]
mats if you enjoyed Ghost in the Shell, you'll probably like Psycho Pass. [20:02]
mats i lost the battle in giving up TV. i haven't picked up anything new though, so thats a win, i guess [20:03]
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undata mats: the newsroom is a good show [20:05]
mats the last episode was terrible. they should've avoided all commentary about feminazis in the media [20:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31056 @ 0.00065286 = 20.2752 BTC [+] [20:06]
mats they do alright, generally, but chicks i talk to about it aren't happy with how women are portrayed in the show [20:06]
mats their characters are shallow, and apparently don't pass the Bechdel test. [20:06]
mats ;;google Bechdel test [20:06]
gribble Bechdel test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Bechdel Test Movie List: ; 10 Famous Films That Surprisingly Fail The Bechdel Test: [20:06]
undata yeah I can see that [20:06]
undata the various romance subplots are insufferable [20:07]
mats the more you know! [20:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18232 @ 0.00065286 = 11.9029 BTC [+] [20:11]
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ben_vulpes what i really want is to listen to strong female characters talking about...what to strong female characters talk about? [20:26]
mats whatever the dudes talk about, i suppose. [20:28]
mats http://aje.me/1x2Vun8 looks like they're not even going to bother with taking kurdistan first [20:29]
assbot Iraq's Balad braced for battle with ISIL - Middle East - Al Jazeera English [20:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 100000 @ 0.0012 = 120 BTC [20:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00065286 = 6.1695 BTC [+] [20:31]
mats http://news.usni.org/2014/12/10/u-s-navy-allowed-use-persian-gulf-laser-defense [20:32]
assbot U.S. Navy Allowed to Use Persian Gulf Laser for Defense - USNI News ... ( http://bit.ly/1x3N3Ib ) [20:33]
mats what a useless and expensive weapon [20:34]
mircea_popescu jesus the fruits in this country, i can't get over it. [20:36]
mircea_popescu i have never in my life had cherries this good [20:36]
mircea_popescu an' romaians are big on cherries. [20:36]
mircea_popescu mats http://trilema.com/2014/the-romanian-language-for-other-people/#comment-110532 wd :) [20:39]
assbot The Romanian language for other people. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1x3NFNX ) [20:39]
mircea_popescu http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/New-Jersey-breast-pump-thief-786543 << the lingering q is how the fuck are lactation aids worth 1k [20:40]
assbot New Jersey Cops On The Hunt For Notorious Garden State Breast Pump Thief | The Smoking Gun ... ( http://bit.ly/1x3NORA ) [20:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00067913 = 14.3976 BTC [+] {2} [20:41]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 2500 @ 0.0012 = 3 BTC [21:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63538 @ 0.00064732 = 41.1294 BTC [-] {4} [21:10]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8971 @ 0.00064765 = 5.8101 BTC [+] [21:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13091 @ 0.00064765 = 8.4784 BTC [-] [21:50]
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mats mircea_popescu: cool. i appreciate your patience, still working on picking up latin and romanian. and maintaining the other languages bouncing around in my head. [22:08]
mats ;;ident [22:10]
gribble Nick 'mats', with hostmask 'mats!sid23029@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qffzshlqkntuoouh', is identified as user 'mats', with GPG key id B9527964891A5566, key fingerprint B37F49DC35FD838B1F8783CC59C93F63549036BD, and bitcoin address None [22:10]
mats mircea_popescu: 17HvePmDqPnKjZ79FrB1yicZPqyxTN4BnR [22:11]
* asciilifeform is ever more convinced that systemd, with its default setting of vomiting syslog to every ptty console (!), constantly, is really an elaborate trolling gag project [22:11]
kakobrekla now your bitcoin address will get ddosed : [22:11]
mats :( [22:12]
mats asciilifeform: seen the latest on 'Ubuntu Core'? piles on piles of shit. [22:13]
asciilifeform why and how would i even see this. [22:13]
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ben_vulpes http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/tools/snappy << relevant [22:14]
assbot Announcing Snappy Ubuntu | Cloud | Ubuntu ... ( http://bit.ly/167TuhY ) [22:14]
undata on azure! [22:14]
undata I would laugh my ass off for days if MS ever bought Canonical [22:14]
asciilifeform only remembered 'systemd' now because happened to switch on a machine in my collection, a 'google chromebook a15', based on single-chip 'arm.' afaik, no clean (traditional init) linux distro has ever been published for said machine. [22:14]
asciilifeform the real insult is that the manufacturer's stock os is: a bastardized gentoo. [22:15]
asciilifeform but go and try to set up a normal gentoo, in such a way that all of the necessary peripherals (gpu, power controller) actually work. [22:15]
asciilifeform afaik, no one has achieved this. [22:15]
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undata asciilifeform: tried doing a localyesconfig on the Chrome OS? [22:17]
asciilifeform i'm not interested in using 'chrome os.' [22:17]
asciilifeform for anything. [22:17]
undata asciilifeform: nah, that would give you a kernel config for gentoo proper [22:17]
asciilifeform except it wouldn't [22:17]
asciilifeform there are closed blobs in there. [22:17]
undata oh, terrible! [22:17]
asciilifeform bought that thing >1 yr ago, because could not resist an attempt at a laptop that is entirely solid state, can be carried in one hand, and runs 12+hrs on a charge [22:18]
asciilifeform part of eternal quest for 'write in bed' machine [22:18]
undata my most recent purchase was a lenovo x1 carbon [22:18]
asciilifeform and non-x86 modern portable having keyboard is such a rarity that could not be passed up [22:18]
undata the thinkpad brand is dead [22:18]
asciilifeform the non-thinkpad brands are even deader. [22:19]
undata I'm pretty sure this one has a hardware issue; / remounts read-only sporadically [22:19]
asciilifeform but this tale was not about a 'proper' laptop, but attempt to glue together a portable-with-keyboard that isn't x86 and therefore can actually achieve some serious runtime on battery [22:20]
undata yet there are no bad blocks to be found [22:20]
asciilifeform undata: loose mount (as in physical connector) ? [22:20]
undata asciilifeform: perhaps, though restarting it without jiggling anything always works [22:21]
* asciilifeform full of wrath re: google profiting off all of the work that folks put into linux, to create the abortion spoken of earlier; a deliberate hardware troll. [22:22]
undata that's their move; buy things that can be bought, snatch the free stuff [22:23]
asciilifeform i can easily understand now why theo de raadt zapped support for loadable kernel modules in openbsd [22:24]
undata shovel out shiny thing covered in ads and spyware [22:24]
asciilifeform the only way to prevent this kind of situation - a pure scorched earth approach [22:24]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 2025 @ 0.0012 = 2.43 BTC [22:24]
asciilifeform not that someone could not, hypothetically, link a blob into an openbsd kernel and try to persuade folks to use it. but the result would probably be: laughter. [22:25]
asciilifeform somehow the loadability seems to be psychologically necessary for blob acceptance. [22:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00065049 = 6.8301 BTC [+] [22:27]
decimation asciilifeform: or fork openbsd [22:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 5250 @ 0.0012 = 6.3 BTC [22:29]
decimation but in the case it wouldn't openbsd anymore [22:29]
decimation and one couldn't bake a meatloaf with particles of linux and call it 'linux' [22:30]
asciilifeform decimation: hell knows how many entirely-closed industrial turds contain a bsd [22:30]
asciilifeform the chromebook thing is just like the situation i spoke of last week: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-12-2014#944963 [22:31]
assbot Logged on 04-12-2014 04:32:47; asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/a/llwZ2 [22:31]
asciilifeform a gizmo, ships with a linux variant [22:31]
asciilifeform but only runs because contains turds [22:31]
decimation I've been tagged with supporting a 'palo alto' vpn turd box. I'm pretty sure it's bsd [22:31]
asciilifeform if you try to construct own linux (or bsd, whichever) on the machine - nothing but torment [22:31]
decimation asciilifeform: only google knows the right bits to flip I guess [22:32]
asciilifeform it will either refuse to run at all, or worse - run intermittently because there nominally exist open drivers for the necessary peripherals, but the manufacturer did not used them [22:32]
asciilifeform *use [22:32]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.1401008 = 2.802 BTC [-] {2} [22:32]
decimation they probably hired some taiwanese code monkeys to write drivers with the nda'ed full docs [22:33]
asciilifeform and then you go and buy 25 different gizmos to see if even one does not meet this pattern [22:33]
asciilifeform and end up with a crate of scrap [22:33]
asciilifeform because 100%. [22:33]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.140001 = 3.08 BTC [-] [22:34]
decimation it pisses me off that one cannot buy a 100% nda free x86 system [22:35]
decimation yes, I know about the 'novena' [22:35]
asciilifeform what processor - can ? [22:35]
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asciilifeform can i see the mask for 'arm' core - the actual production mask - without nda? [22:36]
asciilifeform or, for that matter, with ? [22:36]
decimation I just want the spec and docs (with talmud of errata) [22:36]
asciilifeform 'novena laptop' is a hardware troll [22:36]
decimation some intel peripheral chips are documented [22:36]
decimation well, I would give novena a hell of alot more credit if they actually shipped [22:37]
asciilifeform that is, something so laughably and irredeemably inadequate for its nominal purpose that its very existence is a troll. [22:37]
decimation it appears to me they have been 'prototyping' for about a year [22:37]
decimation and they are still 'fundraising' as far as I can tell [22:37]
decimation with a reasonable and open bus, it would be simple to plug in an fpga card if one wanted to use [22:38]
decimation PCI is neither reasonable nor open [22:38]
asciilifeform where is the open fpga? [22:38]
decimation no it uses xilinix [22:38]
asciilifeform pci is a paragon of transparency compared with any extant fpga [22:38]
decimation I guess 'no nda' just means drivers specs [22:38]
decimation yeah [22:38]
asciilifeform and how about the micro in the ssd ? [22:38]
asciilifeform whither the specs [22:39]
decimation hehe asciilifeform pokes [22:39]
asciilifeform will poke until it bursts. and it doesn't take much. [22:39]
asciilifeform hardware trolls - to scrapyard. authors - to biodiesel. [22:39]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.140001 = 2.8 BTC [-] [22:39]
decimation one wonders about the touchscreen drivers too [22:40]
decimation what about the keyboard uC firmware? [22:40]
decimation and so forth [22:40]
asciilifeform the most enraging thing is the idiots who think there has been -any- progress made on this front. [22:41]
asciilifeform because this is a situation where anything short of 100% is equivalent to 0%. [22:41]
decimation basically to even *start* to do anything will require someone like that russian billionare giving a shit [22:41]
asciilifeform would have to give enough of a shit to fund, but not enough to attempt to direct. this will happen shortly after pigs fly. [22:42]
decimation yeah. if herr watson wishes to poke at modernity that would be a good start [22:42]
decimation but his few $mil is too piddly to accomplish anything [22:43]
asciilifeform incidentally, there once lived upon the good earth a group of people who carried on development of entirely open computer hardware, prying open closed turds whenever they felt necessary without even breaking a sweat [22:47]
asciilifeform and daring anyone to try to stop them [22:47]
asciilifeform it was called the ussr. [22:47]
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mats well, when the rocket leaves the pad, id be happy to join you in this prying [22:48]
* asciilifeform favours the 'year zero' approach, but this is not news [22:48]
asciilifeform a forcibly blown open 'xilinx' soft/hard stack would be a good start though. [22:49]
asciilifeform as i may have once explained, the chicoms have not done this and should not be expected to ever do it, because fpga is profoundly useless in a mass consumer product. [22:50]
asciilifeform fundamentally. [22:50]
decimation asciilifeform: "US Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act...' << obey or gasenwagen!" << USG generally has no problem giving commands to 'technical people' in its Vader Voice [22:50]
asciilifeform decimation: that line was a 'the mask fell off' moment in that article. [22:50]
asciilifeform decimation: after it, there could be no mistake as to the nature and motivations of the author. [22:50]
decimation not only is open fpga useless for consumer market, it openly antagonizes it [22:50]
asciilifeform it is simply wasteful for any extant mass application - does a dildo need general-purpose switching matrix logic ? [22:51]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 3000 @ 0.0012 = 3.6 BTC [22:52]
asciilifeform don't wait for the chinese to copy fpga. they have no reason whatsoever to. [22:52]
asciilifeform for prototyping (the only thing they are presently used for) they are happy to buy the american chips and use their closed turdchains. [22:52]
decimation yeah, it really is only useful for 'actual people' who want to research interesting digital applications [22:52]
asciilifeform just as china (along with the rest of the planet) happily runs winblows. [22:52]
decimation this is not a large market [22:53]
asciilifeform it's a market of, what... 10 people. [22:53]
decimation is this dominance of xilinix, ms, etc really a case of the 'giant' sitting on the stool? [22:53]
asciilifeform i will not only die of old age but probably manage to fossilize before anyone ever thinks of serving this market. [22:54]
decimation it seems to me that if there were any midgets, they are long gone [22:54]
asciilifeform decimation: the midgets were exterminated, possibly before birth, by patents [22:54]
decimation yeah and copyright in the case of ms [22:54]
asciilifeform decimation: notice that all known fpga manufacturers (xilinx, altera, lattice, a few others) have the same business model [22:55]
decimation it's a neat trick to time-warp into the future and murder your competitors in the womb [22:55]
asciilifeform licensing of circuit modules [22:55]
asciilifeform this is because it is quite impossible, as i understand, to really make serious money selling the chips [22:55]
asciilifeform they virtually never end up in consumer products except as a result of extreme haste (rushing a prototype to market) [22:55]
decimation yeah I've heard it referred to as the "ip cores" market [22:55]
asciilifeform (where!? see, e.g, the 'rio pmp' early mp3 player.) [22:56]
asciilifeform !s xilinx [22:56]
assbot 42 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx [22:56]
asciilifeform discussed here on several separate occasions. [22:56]
decimation apparently the the prices they charge for these "ip cores" are highly negotiable depending on your account with them [22:56]
asciilifeform and their ability to carry out this 'air merchant' trick is entirely tied to a maximally-closed chip architecture. [22:57]
asciilifeform otherwise it would be a simple matter to learn how the mystery meat module works and remplement. [22:57]
asciilifeform *reimplement [22:57]
decimation yeah whenever I hear "ip cores" I immediately think of all the legal bullshit that they are pimping to support their 'business' [22:57]
decimation maybe some snowden working for xilinix will release the dox one day [22:58]
asciilifeform doesn't do much good [22:58]
decimation they would probably just discontinue that line [22:58]
asciilifeform i did tell the tale, of how on one occasion someone succeeded in mostly reversing a particular chip [22:58]
asciilifeform it is now entirely unobtainable. [22:58]
asciilifeform almost as much as the first (and last, and only) xilinx part that had open docs from the vendor [22:59]
asciilifeform it is never enough to reverse engineer a particular item. [22:59]
asciilifeform the results must go into soviet-style production by the megatonne. [22:59]
asciilifeform at least, for a silicon chip, that cannot be made in a cellar [22:59]
decimation that's something the russian billionare could help with [23:00]
asciilifeform but why [23:00]
decimation unfortunately there is not much 'spare' capacity [23:00]
asciilifeform there will -never- be spare capacity for a counter-economic project. [23:00]
decimation the only credible buyers I can imagine are non-us defense [23:00]
asciilifeform the same folks happily running winblows and ms-office ? [23:01]
asciilifeform hahaha [23:01]
decimation yeah I know [23:01]
asciilifeform martian defense. [23:01]
asciilifeform that's who'll buy. [23:01]
decimation as long as usg sits on the stool it will remain that way [23:02]
asciilifeform i'm not convinced this is a usg-dependent phenomenon [23:02]
decimation no, the real driver is the expense of a chip fab [23:02]
asciilifeform as in, usg can and will perish, but the widgets spoken of here will not magically appear. [23:02]
asciilifeform there would have to be some rational mechanism to bring them into being. [23:02]
decimation cheap chip fabrication would do it [23:03]
decimation but that's almost science fiction [23:03]
asciilifeform if you had cheap chip fab, there would not even be much reason to build fpga ! [23:03]
decimation I mean if we could 'kickstart' such a design for a few $K [23:03]
asciilifeform other than for exotic circuits that reprogram selves, etc [23:03]
asciilifeform even then [23:04]
decimation actually the design work is way more than the fabrication [23:04]
asciilifeform nope. [23:04]
asciilifeform not if you're the designer [23:04]
decimation well, costs lifetime then [23:04]
asciilifeform costs no more than we're paying now to talk. [23:04]
decimation including the warez for design toolchain? [23:05]
asciilifeform ideally, a from-scratch rational reimplementation (that ignores patents on best-known algos, yes) [23:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.140001 = 1.4 BTC [-] [23:06]
asciilifeform technically if you were to write a logic synthesis tool today, from scratch, it would still be 'warez' [23:06]
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asciilifeform i generally tag all of the parties responsible for this state of affairs as agents of usg, whether they would think of themselves as such or not. [23:07]
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decimation certainly most of their sales are to usg's layer 2 [23:08]
decimation there aren't many fpgas in consumer chips in general [23:09]
decimation consumer boards I should say [23:09]
asciilifeform wasn't speaking of fpga specifically [23:09]
asciilifeform but anyone involved in the patent of algorithms apparatus [23:09]
asciilifeform in whatever capacity. [23:10]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.13995025 = 5.598 BTC [-] {3} [23:10]
* midnightmagic (~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:10]
decimation ironically the us got its start pirating machine designs from england [23:10]
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asciilifeform this is well-known. [23:11]
decimation that and talented machinists would leave to 'seed' enterprises in europe & elsewhere [23:11]
asciilifeform the secret boojum of chip business is that anything whose production is inherently centralized to that degree, is almost divinely ordained to suck. [23:13]
asciilifeform if rifles could only be produced in 12 places on the planet, most fighting would still be conducted with spears and axes. [23:14]
decimation heh http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/MG/I/MG-2.html#16 << related [23:14]
assbot HyperWar: The Machine Gun (Vol. I/Part II) ... ( http://bit.ly/1wixV6N ) [23:14]
asciilifeform !s you and the atomic bomb [23:15]
assbot 10 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb [23:15]
asciilifeform ^ more related [23:15]
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undata asciilifeform: how much money would you need to produce said computer and a suitable OS? [23:16]
asciilifeform suitable for whom ? [23:16]
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undata a guy wanting to write some code and keep a secret or two [23:17]
asciilifeform very vague, this. [23:17]
* undata hands asciilifeform his busted laptop [23:17]
undata something that replaces this piece of trash [23:17]
asciilifeform back to chip thread, for a spell - we're roughly in the situation of ancient china, which had printing but not movable type [23:18]
asciilifeform the closest thing anyone has conceived off to movable type re: chip design is the fpga concept. [23:18]
asciilifeform which is actually more analogous to a teletype (slow, ponderous, you would not want to print a book's print run on it) [23:18]
asciilifeform but indispensable for certain work. [23:19]
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decimation and it isn't 'movable type' in the sense that someone with a brain can arrange the internals to serve his needs [23:19]
asciilifeform the way i understand it, a 100% open fpga, produced in a thousand factories of mutually-antagonistic owners, is the one and only way to 'open computer.' [23:20]
asciilifeform unless some fundamental discovery enabling cellar chip fab were to be made [23:20]
decimation or 'chip printing' [23:20]
decimation both of which are fantastic science fiction today [23:20]
asciilifeform ^ grantsmanship, usg desinfo. [23:20]
asciilifeform nothing remotely resembling a 'chip printer' is conceivable with presently-known physics [23:21]
decimation yeah it is easier to conceive of trained bacteria who arrange parts appropriately [23:21]
decimation 'bio-assembly' or whatever [23:22]
asciilifeform bacterium is almost as much too large as you and i. [23:22]
asciilifeform for this work. [23:22]
asciilifeform even if he had hands. [23:22]
asciilifeform once you clear away the usg grantsmanship, what mr. mold called 'scientocracy', you realize that actual science mostly 100% stopped around 1960. [23:23]
decimation yeah one would need trained molecules [23:23]
asciilifeform at least in the english world. [23:23]
decimation yes, usg 'sat' on this stool too [23:23]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 875 @ 0.0012 = 1.05 BTC [23:25]
asciilifeform usg annihilated science to an extent no one ever, i suspect, thought of as possible. [23:25]
asciilifeform in contrast, e.g., trofim lysenko's victims were at least intellectually-equipped to understand what was happening to them. [23:26]
mircea_popescu mats but there please. [23:26]
decimation asciilifeform: reading about lysenko immediately conjures the 'stierlitz files' where all the nazis had a high-school education [23:28]
decimation usg also stole the "having stolen science" [23:28]
asciilifeform the ones with actual education, went off to derp in aryan physics or annenerbe etc. [23:29]
asciilifeform big, fat difference. [23:29]
decimation or fled [23:29]
asciilifeform note, there was a where to flee. [23:29]
decimation heh true this [23:29]
asciilifeform where do you flee from the planet-devourer -if you want to do science- ? [23:30]
asciilifeform no destination. [23:30]
decimation king neptune? [23:30]
asciilifeform lol [23:30]
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decimation mircea_popescu: I like your romanian poet/french revolution quote. It could almost be used as a motto for the west today [23:34]
mircea_popescu hehe. [23:35]
mircea_popescu the irony of modernity is that there's no shortage of answers. in fact, they're written generally a century ago. just... nobody [knows how to] reads. [23:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40552 @ 0.0006453 = 26.1682 BTC [-] {5} [23:37]
* asciilifeform should like the answer to 'how do i grow single-crystal si in jungle conditions, how do i lay down dopant with ion beam sans high vacuum' etc. [23:38]
* asciilifeform wants to know in what roman text these answers lie. [23:38]
* asciilifeform can read. [23:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00067574 = 16.6232 BTC [+] {2} [23:38]
mircea_popescu ah but! we're talking of different things. [23:39]
mircea_popescu he was discussing politics and society. [23:39]
asciilifeform aha lol [23:39]
asciilifeform the human zoo's been around for quite some time, yes. [23:39]
asciilifeform well-documented. [23:39]
mircea_popescu quiote [23:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8929 @ 0.00063894 = 5.7051 BTC [-] [23:50]
* Lycerion is now known as Holdor [23:51]
decimation asciilifeform: I wouldn't mind a 500 micrometer fab if it were possible at home [23:56]
asciilifeform i wouldn't mind a car that runs on farts, if it were possible at home. [23:57]
decimation hehe [23:58]
undata I'm still interested to hear an estimate on the R&D cost of an 'actual' computer [23:58]
asciilifeform undata: i can't even begin to say, because the expense involved is literally astronomical. [23:58]
asciilifeform as in, you would have to re-create entire industries from scratch [23:59]
asciilifeform as if after a global thermonuking. [23:59]
asciilifeform and you would not stand to make any of it back. it would have to be a purely narcissistic pyramid built for the self-aggrandizement of some king. [23:59]
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