Forum logs for 09 Apr 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
nubbins` <+asciilifeform> e.g. amputation fetishist gets amputation, etc. <<< met a girl once who'd self-amputated her fingertip, doctors didn't think too much of it [00:00]
asciilifeform nubbins`: yakuza ? [00:00]
trinque o.0 [00:00]
nubbins` <+mircea_popescu> nubbins` for my curiosity, when are you gonna get bored with it ? <<< now-ish [00:01]
nubbins` asciilifeform naw pin-up girl [00:01]
mircea_popescu o.O [00:01]
mircea_popescu who wants an ex carpenter pin-up [00:01]
asciilifeform nubbins`: do tell ? [00:01]
nubbins` [00:01]
assbot ... ( ) [00:01]
asciilifeform i assume 'self-amputated' means something other than machine-shop [00:01]
decimation m' [00:02]
nubbins` apparently chisels are popular [00:02]
* gabridome has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [00:02]
trinque they'll make a "subculture" out of anything [00:02]
nubbins` "popular", listen to me [00:02]
mircea_popescu the guy is proposing to merge the silk road with yahoo! answers << well, they already implemented "yahoo finance boards" as "bitcoin finance" [00:02]
nubbins` ha [00:02]
trinque kitten stomping, dick hammering, you name it [00:02]
trinque what will the kids think of next [00:02]
nubbins` trinque what's wrong with dick hammering? [00:02]
decimation I don't get how one gets from "want to cut" to "imma cut my fukin' fingertip off' [00:02]
nubbins` grow up and live a little [00:02]
asciilifeform what will the kids think of next << here's to hoping that it's dueling they'll think of. [00:03]
* gabridome ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:03]
nubbins` i actually read a handful of stories from self-amputees over the years [00:03]
nubbins` one guy took off a hand [00:03]
mircea_popescu trinque: gawker and friends are blocked at /etc/hosts on babetops << what sort of an abusive relationsheep is this! [00:03]
asciilifeform or even the proverbial 'ru. roulette with automatic' [00:03]
asciilifeform wai wat is a 'babetop' ? [00:04]
trinque asciilifeform: nah dueling has no victim [00:04]
trinque nubbins`: seems like incremental suicide [00:04]
decimation maybe if my hand is dead that's like suicide? [00:05]
nubbins` trinque waking up every day is incremental suicide [00:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i imagine the system his wife is using [00:05]
trinque nubbins`: bah [00:05]
BingoBoingo wai wat is a 'babetop' ? << Tits??? [00:05]
trinque not like I've never felt pain, but I don't see the point in losing parts [00:05]
nubbins` [00:05]
assbot De-Fingered: Finger Amputation Interviews in BME/News [Publisher's Ring] | BME: Tattoo, Piercing and Body Modification News ... ( ) [00:05]
ben_vulpes specially not the moneymaking parts [00:05]
nubbins` [00:05]
asciilifeform nubbins`: iirc from shrink literature, proper ampuphetishists grow 'alienated' from their hand/foot/cock, coming to believe that it was a foreign object sewn on to them by martian abductors or somesuch. [00:05]
assbot DIY Finger Amputation | BME: Tattoo, Piercing and Body Modification News ... ( ) [00:05]
nubbins` these are obviously NSFW [00:06]
nubbins` [00:06]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: you know how it is when they come to you asking for the right decisions to be made. [00:06]
assbot Memorial Amputation | BME: Tattoo, Piercing and Body Modification News ... ( ) [00:06]
nubbins` [00:06]
assbot Frozen extremes | BME: Tattoo, Piercing and Body Modification News ... ( ) [00:06]
nubbins` ^ whole foot [00:06]
trinque seems like humans will a) accept any category they've heard about a certain number of times and b) compete with each other as examples of that category [00:06]
asciilifeform 'frozen extremes' << will guess, he used nitrogen ? [00:06]
asciilifeform and hammer [00:06]
decimation sure why not make a subreddit where sick fucks can egg each other on [00:06]
nubbins` dry ice [00:06]
nubbins` and time [00:06]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i do, but it's nothing liek that. [00:06]
asciilifeform nubbins`: sounds gangrenous [00:07]
decimation maybe a subreddit discussing why "i don't negotiate because reasons" [00:07]
mircea_popescu no further than tonight, girl got sent to bed early because well, bought eggs at carefour. [00:07]
mircea_popescu who the fuck does that ?! [00:07]
nubbins` asciilifeform he couldn't saw it off himself, so he froze it with dry ice and went to the hospital [00:07]
nubbins` where they kindly removed it for him [00:07]
mircea_popescu but the idea isn't to make stupid shit impossible. just punishable. [00:07]
asciilifeform nubbins`: aha gulag-style [00:07]
ben_vulpes hm [00:07]
asciilifeform (prisoners at one point would mutilate own hands, feet, to be excused from work for a spell) [00:07]
nubbins` a! [00:08]
ben_vulpes (the correct procurement point being avicar, clearly) [00:08]
asciilifeform in wartime this was an instant capital offense [00:08]
asciilifeform but in peacetime - no [00:08]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes nah, grocer. [00:08]
decimation yeah, but then you gotta go back to mining uranium without hand [00:08]
ben_vulpes what was she doing at carefour anyways? [00:08]
asciilifeform decimation: if lacking both hands - you'd become a human 'soil compactor' [00:08]
decimation lol [00:08]
asciilifeform missing feet - left to starve [00:08]
decimation why not eaten by others? [00:08]
asciilifeform i did not say whether eaten. [00:09]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: hey avicar had great eggs [00:09]
nubbins` [00:09]
assbot Interview with James Keen; a young, heavily modified, eunuch. | BME: Tattoo, Piercing and Body Modification News ... ( ) [00:09]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes prolly looking for gawker magazine, fuck if i know. [00:09]
mircea_popescu i never used it. [00:09]
nubbins` ^ i actually watched this guy go from a vanilla fat kid into what you see in the first picture [00:09]
decimation if you feel like hacking your foot off, can I eat it? [00:09]
nubbins` over the course of maybe 2-3 years [00:09]
asciilifeform decimation: as features in roal dahl's story with the bums [00:09]
asciilifeform or in the film 'snow piercer' [00:09]
asciilifeform or 1000 other works of art [00:10]
trinque cannot comprehend a person who cuts off his own balls [00:10]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: gawker magazine << hawww [00:10]
trinque other than it must be a few notches below suicide [00:10]
asciilifeform !s a pig like this [00:10]
assbot 1 results for 'a pig like this' : [00:10]
trinque genetic suicide or something [00:10]
ben_vulpes and now there are three, asciilifeform [00:10]
ben_vulpes this is how you get ants. [00:10]
trinque "but dude... you are... hmmm.. *you*." [00:10]
ben_vulpes do you want ants? [00:10]
decimation ". I remember as my second testicle was being clipped from the body, it was an expierence I won’t forget! The feeling of YES it is finally done! I remember it all like yesterday. Months after, and I’m talking 3-4 months of not taking testosterone shots or anything, I started getting hot flashes." [00:11]
nubbins` [00:11]
assbot Just the tip | BME: Tattoo, Piercing and Body Modification News ... ( ) [00:11]
nubbins` it's mostly fingertips [00:11]
asciilifeform [00:11]
assbot ... ( ) [00:11]
nubbins` very rare to go bigger [00:11]
ben_vulpes disappoiting. [00:11]
ben_vulpes i was hoping for cocklets. [00:12]
nubbins` inorite [00:12]
trinque runaway grooming impulse? [00:12]
nubbins` plenty of that too [00:12]
mircea_popescu i'd really like to get with the program here and think "hey, more power to em", but the vast majority of the self improvers are just deranged. [00:12]
nubbins` mircea_popescu has it [00:12]
ben_vulpes i actually *let my piercings close up* [00:12]
decimation ^ which is why they need to be put back to mining U instead of letting them wollow in 'tardation [00:12]
* assbot gives voice to bitstein [00:12]
trinque ben_vulpes: yeah I had pierced ears [00:12]
mircea_popescu decimation i dun believe anyone's stupidity is anyone else's responsibility. [00:12]
bitstein BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: << Pierre_Rochard and I have been trying to tell Coinbase they should be using PGP for a while now. Adrian from Coinbase (presumably the same one as linked to in the article) said: "Do you think that simply signing messages sent from Coinbase with PGP would add any additional security over [00:12]
ben_vulpes but i'm probably fully in the deranged category [00:12]
bitstein DKIM?" So that worked out well for them. [00:12]
assbot Coinbase Outgoing Email Hacked | ... ( ) [00:12]
assbot PGP Signed / Encrypted E-mails - Coinbase Community ... ( ) [00:13]
ben_vulpes trinque: i had a subcutaneous piercing across the back of my neck [00:13]
asciilifeform there is something to the 'mortido' hypothesis [00:13]
* ben_vulpes waggles his cock [00:13]
trinque damn son [00:13]
nubbins` that said, there are plenty of people who cut off a fingertip, tattoo their face, cut their nuts off, w/e... and then just go on to lead a normal, happy life [00:13]
decimation I guess as long as they are hacking their own feet off and not mine [00:13]
asciilifeform that pain, death, mutilation are micronutrients [00:13]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:287f:d56f:ed25:fb85) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:13]
nubbins` they're in the clear minority, sure [00:13]
nubbins` but they're there [00:13]
mircea_popescu bitstein the thing with idiots is that they will continue to think they know better indefinitely. [00:13]
ben_vulpes trinque: i'll show you the vampire bite sometime [00:13]
mircea_popescu hopefully they run out of money and then they vcan go on thinking they knew better with the winklevii and the rest of the dumbcrowd. [00:13]
asciilifeform folks kept as 'axenic mice' tend to go off the rollers in ways like this. [00:13]
nubbins` <+ben_vulpes> trinque: i had a subcutaneous piercing across the back of my neck << hah no wai [00:14]
ben_vulpes nubbins`: boss you don't even know [00:14]
nubbins` i had the frenulum under my tongue pierced [00:14]
ben_vulpes i'm just out of readies right now [00:14]
nubbins` heh [00:14]
bitstein mircea_popescu: I don't think we ever expected them to actually implement it. We just enjoy publicly shaming wallet inspectors. [00:14]
mircea_popescu nubbins` "leading normal happy life" is not the gold standard. [00:14]
ben_vulpes bitstein: y'all reconcile over the megablocks yet? [00:14]
nubbins` mircea_popescu for someone who has to cut off a finger to achieve it... it probably is [00:15]
trinque I'm still staring at this guy's severed finger [00:15]
mircea_popescu nubbins` it doesn't mean anything, for one. [00:15]
decimation nubbins`: when my baby boy was born the doctor said "his frenulum is really long, you want me to snip it"? [00:15]
ben_vulpes nubbins`: if you need "a thing" to achieve it, you'll soon want another "thing" [00:15]
* Chillum (~highinbc@wikipedia/Chillum) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:15]
ben_vulpes insatiability of man etc [00:15]
danielpbarron i wasn't suggesting coinbase gpg sign all outgoing email, as such a thing would be pointless if automated, and impossible if not [00:15]
decimation all human happiness is relative [00:15]
mircea_popescu moreover, people who think they achieved hapiness are the golden standard of deranged. [00:15]
nubbins` ben_vulpes if you need to cum to relax, you'll soon want to cum again [00:15]
trinque lol [00:16]
decimation a turd sandwich sounds delicious to someone about the starve to death [00:16]
nubbins` decimation didja snip it? [00:16]
asciilifeform wait till you hear about eating. not only do you need to do it again soon, but all that money - turned to shit! [00:16]
nubbins` ^ [00:16]
decimation nubbins`: no, and he did just fine. supposedly it would 'prevent nursing' [00:16]
mircea_popescu really bad example. eating is pleasurable. [00:16]
nubbins` decimation if it ends up a problem down the road, people have it done as adults all the time [00:16]
BingoBoingo bitspill: DKIM used to be a popular spamzor turd at first, guarenteed to hit yahoo accounts [00:16]
nubbins` mircea_popescu you don't think cutting the fingertips off is pleasurable for these people? [00:17]
mircea_popescu i know it can't be. [00:17]
bitstein ben_vulpes: I've been busy thinking about other things. I have some articles to review, though, that touch the subject. So we'll see if anyone comes to any new conclusions. [00:17]
nubbins` pleasure centers are funny things [00:17]
trinque seems like the finger cutting wants an audience [00:17]
mircea_popescu hence deranged. [00:17]
asciilifeform i can easily picture them feeling it as a 'long no-safeword scene' or somesuch [00:17]
nubbins` since when is deranged a negative! [00:17]
mircea_popescu depends what you're looking for. [00:18]
mircea_popescu since when is buggy code bad ? [00:18]
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nubbins` asciilifeform unsurprisingly there's a massive overlap between "body mod" world and bdsm [00:18]
mircea_popescu no there isn't. [00:18]
trinque miles of difference between getting choked or whatever and cutting off body parts [00:18]
* assbot gives voice to Chillum [00:19]
* CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [00:19]
Chillum damn hard drive died [00:19]
ben_vulpes punkman: yo i need legacy deed specifications. get in touch with trinque, if you'd be so kind. [00:19]
Chillum good thing I backup [00:19]
nubbins` you're no april's fool [00:19]
Chillum lol [00:19]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell punkman yo i need legacy deed specifications. get in touch with trinque, if you'd be so kind. [00:19]
gribble The operation succeeded. [00:19]
mircea_popescu there's a large overlap between idiotic sjw types, fair going lice-in-hair types, gender-and-social-role-issues types and perceived-scandalous-stuff types. [00:19]
ben_vulpes Chillum: back around again? [00:19]
mircea_popescu the overlap is : poor, stupid, young adults. [00:19]
Chillum almost spit gin and tonic out my nose nubbins` [00:19]
Chillum ben_vulpes: I am around [00:20]
trinque I knew someone who was a "cutter" [00:20]
trinque and it was invariably about the attention after the act [00:20]
trinque not the pain [00:20]
trinque this looks like that [00:20]
ben_vulpes trinque: always [00:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform and for the record, the overlap between bdsm and "scenes" is roughly the overlap between human sexuality and brazzers. [00:20]
mircea_popescu weirdo kabuki nobody takes seriously. [00:20]
asciilifeform what are brazzers ? [00:20]
nubbins` mircea_popescu and there isn't an overlap between the two groups who agree "hurty things are nice". gotcha [00:20]
mircea_popescu this particular californite pron producer. [00:21]
mircea_popescu nubbins` if your idea of bdsm is "hurty things are nice" and idem of body mods, the problem is this will overlap anything. [00:21]
asciilifeform trinque: oddly enough i knew such a person, and it was very much not a 'performance act' considering that it was done in secret and only evident long after by the scars [00:21]
mircea_popescu for instance voting. [00:21]
nubbins` voting actually hurts [00:21]
nubbins` you know there's still no option for "none of the above" here? [00:22]
mircea_popescu heh. [00:22]
ben_vulpes good night, asshats! [00:23]
trinque ben_vulpes: adios [00:23]
mircea_popescu anyway. the pain per se is rarely sought by the body mod crowd. as trinque points out, attention whoring much higher on the list. [00:23]
mircea_popescu similarly, more people in bdsm are after the humiliation than the straight pain. [00:23]
nubbins` [00:23]
assbot ... ( ) [00:23]
mircea_popescu so... you know, picking something way down off the list of either doesn't make much of a connection [00:23]
nubbins` in fairness, i went way farther down the mod rabbit hole than most [00:24]
asciilifeform i can even imagine cargo-cult masochists [00:24]
asciilifeform who go in for greater and greater torments, hoping to overflow the register [00:24]
nubbins` i've met some extremely complicated people over the years [00:24]
mircea_popescu nubbins` i am not proposing you're no good here. [00:24]
nubbins` good, 'cause i didn't get that impression [00:25]
punkman trinque: zlib compressed [00:25]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform well the masochists you imagine and the masochists you'll encounter are guaranteed to never meet. [00:25]
trinque punkman: ah, thank you! [00:25]
mircea_popescu for one thing, actual masochism is quite rare. about as rare as actual homosexuals. [00:25]
mircea_popescu whereas, plain female submission (either natural, or else imprinted/misdeveloped) is quite common. [00:26]
asciilifeform so what are the remaining ones ? [00:26]
asciilifeform aha [00:26]
mircea_popescu women to some degree are coded to neglect pain or else they'd never get pregnant. [00:26]
mircea_popescu this isnt masochism per se. [00:26]
asciilifeform neglect != enjoy ? [00:26]
nubbins` knew a guy who went by the name "mal" who was in the process of letting his wife cut his dick off [00:27]
mircea_popescu well, neglect indeed can be enjoy. [00:27]
mircea_popescu imagine you just found out how to neglect noise in a noisy room [00:27]
mircea_popescu narrow space in the head, so everything ends up the other thing all the time. broken shit. [00:27]
asciilifeform i know of at least five cases of craftsmen who built and used, on selves, guillotines. [00:27]
asciilifeform does this count as amputation fetishism... [00:28]
trinque hahaha [00:28]
mircea_popescu or simple seneca-ism. [00:28]
nubbins` he ended up getting divorced in the end, which was a bit of a kick in his absent nuts [00:28]
nubbins` but at least he has a bifurcated penis for his troubles now [00:28]
mircea_popescu nubbins` i knew of a guy who was a total slob, ended up giving himself renal failure. [00:28]
asciilifeform narrow space in the head, so everything ends up the other thing << this is how the 'cutter' explained it to me [00:28]
mircea_popescu wife gave him a kidney (they matched), he cleanned up his act [00:28]
mircea_popescu and divorced her. [00:29]
nubbins` hm, you ever watch Lost? i guess not [00:29]
mircea_popescu nope ? [00:29]
trinque asciilifeform: hm, maybe I didn't describe the situation I know of fully. she mentioned that it cleared her head a couple times [00:29]
nubbins` anyway, in the show, there's this old man, john locke. hard life, series of misfortunes. finds his dad as an adult, befriends him, everything's great [00:29]
trinque I think a pathological way to do so, but maybe there was something there other than just the narcissism, though that factored in [00:29]
nubbins` dad needs a kidney. [00:29]
nubbins` john wakes up in the recovery room after donating said kidney -- dad had checked out an hour earlier, never to be seen again [00:30]
mircea_popescu ha. [00:30]
mircea_popescu actually, i now recall there was this ancient... czech maybe ? film, about a stamp collector [00:30]
nubbins` he tracks his dad down, they argue, dad pushes him out a 7th floor window, paralyzing him [00:30]
mircea_popescu and they tricked him with a rare stamp, guy lost a kidney. [00:31]
asciilifeform tales of stolen organs pre-date the invention of transplantation [00:31]
asciilifeform in fact, africans still 'muti' [00:31]
asciilifeform i wouldn't be certain that it will be very long before 'muti' is introduced in usa [00:32]
asciilifeform ('medicinal cannibalism') [00:32]
trinque I think I'd have to not consider my body to be "me" to be able to cut off a finger.. [00:32]
mircea_popescu im sure they already do it in the ghetto. [00:32]
trinque seems like magical thinking just as bad as any religious nut [00:32]
nubbins` trinque what about "thinking" is not magical to you? [00:33]
mircea_popescu trinque im certainly able to cut the whole lot off. [00:33]
mircea_popescu just... why the fuck would i. [00:33]
asciilifeform trinque: not consider my body to be "me" << fwiw, this is how the shrinkature describes it [00:33]
trinque that's what I mean, able to rationalize it [00:33]
trinque asciilifeform: I agree up to the point where they try to make the body fit the "mind" [00:33]
trinque instead of saying look kid, you've got a penis [00:33]
nubbins` groan [00:33]
mircea_popescu yeah, because god forbid their stupid "mind" ie narciself ever has to adapt to anything. [00:34]
trinque ^ [00:34]
* mircea_popescu *beatings* [00:34]
Chillum I have been looking into laser cutters. I have seen this aluminum with a black anodized layer. The laser can blast off the black layer to give strong contrasting metal images. I am thinking it may be a good way to make very long term(decades) bitcoin wallets [00:34]
mircea_popescu in other news, [00:35]
assbot ... ( ) [00:35]
nubbins` "nineteen eighty-four" with an all-female cast! [00:35]
mircea_popescu Chillum if you could get it to work on bronze... [00:35]
nubbins` this is right before the "FOREVER" [00:35]
Chillum not sure if you can anodize bronze [00:36]
Chillum it has the advantage of being extremely durable [00:36]
mircea_popescu nubbins` it wouldn't work, imo. 1984 so deeply depends on very male erotic sentiment. [00:36]
Chillum why bronze? [00:36]
nubbins` Chillum i think you can [00:36]
Chillum nice [00:36]
mircea_popescu bronze is the most durable thing we have. [00:36]
asciilifeform Chillum: cut something that is actually thick [00:36]
asciilifeform and doesn't corrode [00:36]
trinque nubbins`: by magical thinking I mean the kind which simply tries to declare things to be other than they are [00:37]
Chillum aluminum insulates itself from corrosion once it gets a thin layer [00:37]
nubbins` trinque o. [00:37]
Chillum mircea_popescu: if it can be anodized then bronze would be a great way to go [00:37]
mircea_popescu i don't see why it couldn't. [00:37]
Chillum there are bronze items going back to... well the bronze age [00:37]
nubbins` like how the salaryman declares himself to be confident before asking for the promotion? [00:38]
asciilifeform bronze -items- not little scratches thereon. [00:38]
mircea_popescu actually the bronze age items will still be imperceptibly altered long after new york is barely a flat spot in the sediment record. [00:38]
trinque nubbins`: whatever bullshit rituals work for him [00:38]
Chillum just googled it, anodized bronze sheets are available [00:38]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you could make the dots 1 sqcm [00:38]
trinque nubbins`: he could simply decide that he is going to ask for the thing, and do it [00:39]
asciilifeform Chillum: at any rate, you need a very expensive tube before you can actually cut metals, vs. a thin coat of anodized. [00:39]
Chillum could work. The problem is that everyone needs their own laser cutter as you cannot trust another to make a key for you [00:39]
nubbins` sure. he could simply decide fuck this, i don't want this dick, what good's it anyway, too [00:39]
mircea_popescu Chillum lasers are cheap and getting cheaper. [00:39]
trinque nubbins`: I'm not gonna stop him [00:39]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: tube lasers cost roughly what they cost 30 years ago,. [00:39]
asciilifeform the tech has not changed. [00:39]
nubbins` of course you're not. how could you? [00:39]
Chillum cutting metal is a no-go for co2 lasers, not going to spend 20k+ on a metal cutter [00:39]
nubbins` o.O [00:39]
mircea_popescu and ima go eulora. laters! [00:39]
Chillum but zapping off 1-2mm thick layers of anodization is doable [00:39]
asciilifeform Chillum: you can buy arbitrarily large co2 tube. [00:40]
asciilifeform but - expensive. [00:40]
trinque nubbins`: this gets into "everything's relative" and I don't really subscribe to that [00:40]
Chillum true but beyond a certain power other types of lasers make more sense [00:40]
trinque what would happen if every man cut off his dick [00:40]
nubbins` lel. [00:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36300 @ 0.00025557 = 9.2772 BTC [+] [00:40]
nubbins` the laws of probability would have broken down [00:40]
asciilifeform Chillum: you will find that, large or small, the cost of the cooling and ventilation apparatus will approach the cost of the machine itself. [00:40]
nubbins` and we'd have bigger problems. [00:40]
nubbins` like, say, the lineup at the dick-scissor store. [00:40]
asciilifeform !s dulap [00:41]
assbot 14 results for 'dulap' : [00:41]
Chillum asciilifeform: I am for a larger place to live, then I will be getting one. Will certainly be doing a lot of research first [00:41]
nubbins` trinque it kinda seems like you're arguing people cut their dicks off /on a whim/ [00:41]
trinque +nubbins` | like, say, the lineup at the dick-scissor store. < ahahha [00:41]
nubbins` like "oh, lel, w/e" [00:42]
decimation does usg even allow you to possess a laser like that without permission? [00:42]
trinque nubbins`: nah it seems like... a big deal [00:42]
trinque maybe life is just too boring for them? [00:42]
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nubbins` yep. maybe. [00:42]
trinque they'd rather be hacking enemies with axes or god knows what [00:42]
asciilifeform Chillum: if you must cut metal, in virtually all cases milling, water-jet, or even plasma cut is cheaper. [00:42]
Chillum I don't expect to cut metal [00:43]
trinque nubbins`: I was actually looking for an explanation for the thing [00:43]
trinque that one sort of works... "I'm wired to experience far more pain and risk than I've ever seen in this boring life" [00:43]
Chillum I expect to remove a layer of foil, laminent or anodization from metal [00:43]
asciilifeform on account of the poor massless photons, a 100w power saw cuts like a 10kW laser.. [00:43]
trinque just seems a bad substitute for whatever used to satisfy it, if that's so [00:43]
decimation asciilifeform: wouldn't most of the photons get reflected dangerously around the area? [00:44]
Chillum it would be nice to cut PCBs but not going to happen in my price range [00:44]
asciilifeform decimation: depends on the wavelength [00:44]
nubbins` trinque people who feel they're being cheated of pain and risk usually take up dangerous hobbies [00:44]
nubbins` not get a sex change [00:44]
decimation Chillum: why not use milling bit to mill pcb? [00:44]
trinque nubbins`: I was talking about the guy who chops his finger off [00:44]
trinque dunno then [00:44]
trinque nubbins`: what do you think it is? [00:44]
nubbins` oh, jeez. you're jumping back and forth. [00:44]
asciilifeform decimation: glass, for instance, is quite opaque to ir and cuts with co2 tube [00:44]
nubbins` trinque are you hetero? [00:44]
trinque nubbins`: I am [00:45]
decimation yeah but metal? [00:45]
Chillum decimation: it is cheaper to just use ferric chloride [00:45]
nubbins` ever really wanted to fuck? [00:45]
Chillum nasty stuff but effective [00:45]
trinque nubbins`: yeah this one time.. [00:45]
nubbins` i mean, REALLY, REALLY wanted to [00:45]
trinque of course [00:45]
asciilifeform etched pcb will probably keep longer than any ancient papyrus [00:45]
asciilifeform if not submerged [00:45]
asciilifeform cu on fiberglass [00:45]
nubbins` multiply that by 1000, and make it about having a pussy instead of a dick. [00:45]
Chillum etched PCB wallets is something I tried [00:46]
nubbins` does that make sense? [00:46]
trinque nubbins`: but was the guy getting his dick chopped off one of those? [00:46]
trinque and yeah, it does a bit [00:46]
nubbins` ask him [00:46]
asciilifeform nubbins`: in a way, the folks who 'by 1000 want' to be dragons, are better off [00:46]
trinque turns out though that we don't know how to make men into women [00:47]
asciilifeform nubbins`: they won't be taken in by a cruel sham [00:47]
trinque we just know how to turn a dick inside out and sew it inside [00:47]
nubbins` what i'm trying to say is that it's impossible for me, or you, to say what any individual's motivations are when doing something this extreme [00:47]
asciilifeform because we have not yet invented a 'trans-draconic' industry [00:47]
trinque nubbins`: I'll agree with that [00:47]
decimation if you want to make a 'long life wallet' just get a small sheet of bronze and hand-etch with 'hand engraver' for 10 bux [00:48]
nubbins` what's the most complicated personal crisis you've had to deal with? [00:48]
asciilifeform decimation: problem is that anything easy to do, is easy for the sands of time to scramble up. [00:48]
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trinque nubbins`: identity-wise? I don't tend to think about it. maybe something to do with a job [00:49]
Chillum All I know is that anodizing is used instead of paint when something needs to stand up to more abuse [00:49]
trinque that relates to how I see this, as a sort of obsession with identity [00:49]
decimation asciilifeform: or you could use a 'letter & number die punch set', it would take quite awhile to wear off [00:50]
nubbins` most people don't tend to think about personal crises once they've passed, so you're not unusual in that regard. did you find it hard to succinctly state what was wrong, to yourself or to others? [00:50]
Chillum a true engraving or outside cut-out would be more ideal [00:50]
Chillum solid gold or platinum would not decay [00:50]
asciilifeform obligatory >> [00:50]
assbot Writing in the Sand: The Need for Ultra-Robust Digital Archiving ... ( ) [00:50]
trinque nubbins`: I am invariably dull when it comes to expressing my feelings to others [00:51]
trinque but yes, very hard to take internal state and convey it sometimes, for anyone [00:51]
Chillum asciilifeform: nice link, I have read that before [00:51]
nubbins` sure. and that's for something as trivial and banal as a fucking /job/. [00:51]
Chillum the fact is we have a big tech gap when it comes to storing digital information for long term [00:51]
decimation ok imagine you had a gold-etched lexan 'wallet' [00:51]
decimation the problem I see is, how are you gonna protect it from being seen? [00:52]
nubbins` now imagine how difficult it would be to take the internal state of /wanting to amputate part of your body/ and convey it [00:52]
Chillum the gold would not have to be thick [00:52]
decimation put it in bank vault? [00:52]
trinque nubbins`: yeah I see your point [00:52]
trinque and how that could run away [00:52]
nubbins` anyone who claims to have a grasp on the processes behind these decisions is blowing smoke up your ass [00:52]
trinque so doing it ends the obsession? or is that the hope? [00:52]
asciilifeform fuse a bulb of cloudy synthetic quartz around a gold plate. [00:52]
asciilifeform should suffice for a geological epoch or two [00:53]
trinque that begins to make a shred of sense [00:53]
asciilifeform question being, wtf and why [00:53]
trinque not how they get the obsession in the first place, but how it ends [00:53]
decimation asciilifeform: exactly [00:53]
decimation so you put it in your 'safe deposit box', and the bank employees read [00:53]
decimation now what [00:53]
nubbins` how they get the obsession, probably 99% of them couldn't tell you [00:53]
asciilifeform nubbins`: anyone who claims to have a grasp on the processes behind these decisions is blowing smoke up your ass << the amputation folks do appear to converge on certain threads in their explanations, iirc [00:53]
trinque it's gonna end up being some bastard fungi [00:54]
nubbins` asciilifeform the most common one i've seen is "the part just felt wrong being there" [00:54]
asciilifeform aha [00:54]
nubbins` consider the afore-shared "twwly" [00:54]
decimation [00:54]
assbot Logged on 27-02-2015 02:39:08; decimation: "LAWRENCE Look, Ali. Look! That's me. What colour is it? That's me! And there's nothing I can do about it. ALI A man can do whatever he wants, you said. LAWRENCE He can, but he can't want what he wants.This is the stuff [his flesh] that decides what he wants." [00:54]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i suspect that it will turn up being an elementary proprioception quirk [00:54]
nubbins` had a fingertip amputated maybe 15 years ago [00:54]
asciilifeform sorta like an inverse anosognosia [00:54]
nubbins` how many fingertips amputated since? 0 [00:54]
nubbins` alf you just made me dictionary two words, tyvm [00:55]
nubbins` but yes, that sounds quite apt [00:56]
trinque hm that could be an extremely annoying feeling [00:56]
nubbins` more annoying than tinnitus [00:56]
trinque getting all this sensory input from a thing that shouldn't be there [00:56]
nubbins` anyway, who can say how a thing gets into a brain? [00:56]
nubbins` i have this hazy memory of being extremely sick as a young child, and rolling some very small object, like the size of a grain of sand, between my thumb and forefinger as i writhed in agony [00:57]
decimation el Lawrence said it was the flesh that puts it there [00:57]
nubbins` maybe 3 years old at the time [00:57]
nubbins` this feeling, of rolling the whatever-it-was between my fingers, comes back from time to time [00:57]
trinque hm, maybe you picked up something nasty? [00:58]
asciilifeform nubbins`: or the american expression, dating at least to civil war, of 'biting the bullet' [00:58]
nubbins` no, i mean the sensation of rolling the grain in my fingers [00:58]
nubbins` something very queasy about it [00:58]
trinque I'm confused; this was an object or just a sensation? [00:58]
trinque or you don't know? [00:58]
nubbins` i don't even know if it happened [00:58]
nubbins` but it's stuck in my head and every once in a while i get a grain of salt stuck to my thumb [00:59]
nubbins` and i walk around for a half hour... rolling it [00:59]
nubbins` around and around [00:59]
nubbins` does this make sense? what is its cause? [00:59]
nubbins` why does it make me feel like throwing up sometimes? [00:59]
nubbins` brains are strange things [01:00]
nubbins` and shit gets stuck in them sometimes [01:00]
decimation whatever it is, it ain't an object of reason [01:00]
trinque I could see there being disorders of the sort of universe modeling of the brain [01:00]
asciilifeform nubbins`: patients at chemotherapeutic clinics are often given weird sodas, etc. to drink, for this reason [01:00]
asciilifeform nausea is very quick route to associative memory [01:00]
trinque like leakage between whatever can make a grain of rice appear in my mind's eye [01:00]
asciilifeform for reasons that don't seem mysterious at all [01:00]
trinque and whatever models one on my finger [01:00]
asciilifeform (nausea is, 'in the wild,' generally an indicator of having been poisoned) [01:00]
nubbins` incidentally, i had a crazy stomach flu a couple years ago and now whenever i get really hungry i feel like barfing [01:01]
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nubbins` so the roomie that's being kicked out: he puts on a pot of water to boil yesterday [01:06]
nubbins` heads upstairs, the water boils, boils, boils down to a quarter-cup before he wanders back down [01:06]
Chillum milled stone may be the choice for something to last for 100 years + [01:06]
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nubbins` says "oh, i forgot", pours his quarter-cup of water into a mug, puts the pot (which has only contained water) into a dirty sink for someone else to wash [01:07]
Chillum worked for the Egyptians [01:07]
nubbins` and walks away without turning off the stove burner o.O [01:07]
decimation Chillum: yeah but what are you gonna write on it? Chillum wuz here? [01:07]
Chillum decimation: a bitcoin wallet with 1 bitcoin, think about how much it will be worth in 4000 years! [01:07]
asciilifeform 1 bitcoin... [01:07]
asciilifeform (worth) [01:08]
decimation Chillum: and how are you gonna keep some random chump from ambling by and liberating the contents? [01:08]
Chillum perhaps I should just write "Chillum was here" [01:08]
Chillum seriously though, create a giant pyramid over it [01:09]
asciilifeform forget the pyramid, just leave n bits off the key. [01:09]
Chillum hehe, make it so that you ahve to brute force it for 4000 years? [01:09]
decimation pass them through oral history? [01:09]
asciilifeform y years [01:09]
asciilifeform what f where f(y) = n, exercise for reader. [01:09]
Chillum it would be nice if there was a public/private key system somehow based on time [01:10]
decimation asciilifeform: but if your purpose is to send bitcoin to random person, just send it to a random address? [01:10]
Chillum like you could encrypt a message that could be decoded until a specific date [01:10]
asciilifeform decimation: what the 'purpose' is of this, i will leave to the shrinks. [01:10]
asciilifeform of the future. [01:10]
Chillum I found this: but that is trusting a 3rd party which is lame [01:10]
assbot ... ( ) [01:10]
asciilifeform Chillum has rediscovered 'slavecoin'. [01:11]
decimation heh [01:11]
nubbins` where's hari seldon when you need him [01:11]
Chillum never heard of slavecoin [01:11]
asciilifeform !s slavecoin [01:12]
assbot 26 results for 'slavecoin' : [01:12]
asciilifeform Chillum: it's a #b-a exclusive, afaik. [01:12]
nubbins` whoever finds your milled stone will have to get to the end of the first book before he figures out wtf is going on [01:12]
Chillum I will have to include a stone version of the block chain [01:13]
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nubbins` anyway i'm gonna have a jazz smoke and head to bed. if someone gets portatronic pogotronic static-o-matic bitcoind recipe posted to ML by month's end, i'll send you a free hand-bound book [01:14]
decimation maybe you could sculpt a facsimile of yourself and cut its fuckkin' hand off [01:14]
Chillum jazz smokes are the best smokes [01:14]
nubbins` ^ [01:14]
nubbins` nite [01:14]
Chillum I am jazzing right now [01:14]
asciilifeform ;;ud jazz smoke [01:15]
gribble | jazz smoke isn't defined. Can you define it? * Meaning. Random Word. Ten Words Trending Now. trap queen · swamp donkey · on fleek · sex · dutch rudder ... [01:15]
asciilifeform hm. [01:15]
nubbins` ;;ud jazz cigarette [01:15]
gribble | A slang term used for Marijuana cigarettes during the 1920's in the United States. Cannabis cigarettes were sold in jazz clubs during this period thus the origin of ... [01:15]
Chillum weed ascii, weed [01:15]
asciilifeform aha. [01:15]
nubbins` one of the more comical euphemisms [01:15]
nubbins` on that note... [01:15]
* asciilifeform expected it to be something more specific - weed smoked through trombone, or the like [01:15]
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Chillum that is called trombonging [01:16]
asciilifeform obligatory : [01:16]
assbot Soldiers Smoking Weed During Vietnam War - YouTube ... ( ) [01:16]
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Chillum shotgunning is based off of trombonging [01:17]
Chillum which itself is based on trumptoking [01:18]
Chillum which is smoking through a trumpet [01:18]
Chillum completely unrelated to harp-hooting though [01:18]
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asciilifeform how the hell does one smoke a harp ? [01:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00025019 = 7.7059 BTC [-] {2} [01:21]
decimation actually if you want to have something amusing stand the test of time, why not make a '10,000 year clock' like those yahoos in texas [01:21]
asciilifeform decimation: if they were serious about the 10,000 - they would have parked it on the moon [01:22]
asciilifeform rather than down here, where it waits for the scrap dealers of aztlan circa 2080s [01:22]
decimation yeah I don't think they are serious, apparently it partially depends on visitors winding it [01:22]
decimation is aztlan the 'blade runner'-style distopia? [01:23]
asciilifeform decimation: nah [01:23]
asciilifeform decimation: more of an extrapolation of present-day mexican turf wars with a pseudohistoric flavour [01:23]
asciilifeform (think mussolini's relationship with rome) [01:24]
decimation yeah, the movie was naive to think that the chinese would take over before the central americans [01:24]
asciilifeform decimation: the traditional picture is each empire getting its 'correct' continent [01:25]
asciilifeform 'rice kingdom' is a civilization type, after all [01:25]
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asciilifeform doesn't really work in climates without rice. [01:25]
asciilifeform or so went the reasoning. [01:25]
decimation certainly geography and civilization are correlated [01:26]
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asciilifeform pete_dushenski: [01:34]
asciilifeform see also: [01:34]
assbot You know what doesn’t wash? Your pathetic attempts to “teach the controversy.” That’s what. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( ) [01:34]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 02:22:03; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places". [01:34]
Chillum harp hooting is when you play a harp while making obnoxious hooting noises at passing women [01:34]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [01:35]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: quite so. [01:36]
pete_dushenski the world is as we learned it in social studies [01:37]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: the interesting, and perhaps nonobvious - tidbit - is that these folks -actually- perceive 'american law' and 'god's law' (whether or not they worship any gods) to be one and the same [01:37]
asciilifeform it isn't, as far as i can tell, a pretense [01:37]
pete_dushenski i have the same sense. [01:38]
Chillum amazing what some nutbars believe [01:38]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [01:38]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: though that this thought and sympathy with defectors can co-exist is, to me, baffling [01:38]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: it is the 'sympathy' of torquemada for the heretic [01:39]
pete_dushenski i mean, doesn't someone have to be in the right ? [01:39]
asciilifeform ready to hug him, kiss him good-night before lighting the pyre, so long as he repents [01:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53200 @ 0.00025446 = 13.5373 BTC [+] [01:39]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: hm. suppose so eh. [01:40]
asciilifeform the american puritans invented a term of art for this, 'love the sinner and hate the sin' [01:40]
pete_dushenski and when snowden dies for our sins, we can be free [01:40]
pete_dushenski because we are all the sinners [01:41]
pete_dushenski we just want other people to atone for it [01:41]
pete_dushenski "you fast on yom kippur, ima fucking eat this pizza" [01:41]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: at any rate, snowden deserves his share of being pissed on for his failure to say 'yes, if you are a servant of usg i want to see your miserable existence end on' [01:42]
asciilifeform 'sooner - better' [01:42]
asciilifeform in a way he is buying into the inquisitor's proposition. [01:43]
asciilifeform by failing to immediately reply with exactly this. [01:43]
pete_dushenski of course, but he's awfully timid for that headsoff bizniz [01:43]
pete_dushenski he grew up american, never knowing war or hunger [01:43]
asciilifeform not as if he were personally asked to work the guillotine [01:43]
pete_dushenski but, must still imagine it [01:43]
pete_dushenski and its uses and purposes [01:43]
asciilifeform but could so much as admit that 'though i am a german, a good nazi is a dead one' [01:43]
pete_dushenski but a non-nazi german would've still witnessed abuses and tragedies, first hand, that would make a deskmonkey faint instantly [01:44]
pete_dushenski or at least there's a greater probability of this [01:45]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: it is difficult to imagine that cia employee would have no concept of what usg dishes out to the rest of the planet (as well as own subjects) [01:45]
pete_dushenski mebbe your friend the joo was shipped off in a cattle car [01:45]
asciilifeform just as an exterminator probably has some idea of what the ant hill experiences [01:45]
pete_dushenski pictures don't smell [01:45]
pete_dushenski pictures don't say goodbye [01:45]
pete_dushenski cia employee has seen pictures, that's it [01:46]
pete_dushenski not foot soldiers, these [01:46]
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asciilifeform thing is, plenty of folks who have never killed so much as a rat, happily howl for blood of this or that enemy [01:46]
asciilifeform it is an instinct, like sex [01:46]
pete_dushenski well snowden is also "educated" [01:47]
pete_dushenski which in usian means "isolated" [01:47]
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asciilifeform the desire is not really connected with whether you have the talent, or opportunity, to do it [01:47]
pete_dushenski ok i can see that [01:47]
pete_dushenski still depends on whether you see value in it, or imagine yourself as 'above such barbarity' [01:48]
pete_dushenski or 'mebbe there's another way' [01:48]
pete_dushenski 'a better way' (tm) [01:48]
asciilifeform to the extent we even have an accurate picture of a non-fictional man 'snowden' - he isn't particularly clever. [01:48]
asciilifeform supposedly, e.g., 'waited to leak because didn't want to sink obama election' etc. [01:49]
pete_dushenski lol [01:49]
pete_dushenski definitely an utopian idealist streak in there [01:49]
asciilifeform very much, going by the public statements, a believer in some idea of a return to a mythical 'old' usg [01:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92373 @ 0.00024603 = 22.7265 BTC [-] {2} [01:49]
asciilifeform that didn't 'need' to be killed [01:49]
pete_dushenski yup. like your old dog that just needs another surgery to return her to her former puppious glory [01:50]
asciilifeform at some point, somebody could publish a compendium of everything herr snowden spoke under actual gpg signature [01:50]
asciilifeform (is this a null set ?) [01:50]
pete_dushenski i'd be surprised if it was [01:51]
asciilifeform because 'we fuck people but do business with keys' (TM) [01:51]
asciilifeform in so far as this compendium remains hypothetical - snowden's beliefs are 'angels on a pin' [01:51]
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pete_dushenski interviews shed some light as to his stances, i think it's pretty clear. [01:53]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: did he sign'em ? [01:53]
pete_dushenski well, not the videos [01:53]
asciilifeform or, for that matter, the documents ? [01:53]
asciilifeform (if he had, we wouldn't necessarily know, the greenwald gang mutilated all beyond recognition) [01:54]
pete_dushenski greenwald, i ain't, so you'll have to ask him [01:54]
pete_dushenski right. [01:54]
pete_dushenski but there's no shortage of video about [01:54]
asciilifeform since mircea_popescu is asleep, i shall fill in for him, and point out that: not signed - not vouched for by anyone in wot - may as well be a piece of litter on the street. [01:55]
asciilifeform a bottle washed up from the sea. [01:55]
asciilifeform any and all 'snowden interviews' fall into this class of item [01:55]
asciilifeform the message in the bottle may be true. or not [01:55]
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pete_dushenski well do we even know his fingerprint or have his public key block ? [01:56]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: there is some key, somewhere, supposedly associated with the character. [01:56]
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pete_dushenski [01:57]
assbot ... ( ) [01:57]
pete_dushenski ^heh, pgp key associated with 'hushmail' acct [01:57]
pete_dushenski [01:57]
assbot Public Key Server -- Get "0x4db8a08821b7141f " ... ( ) [01:57]
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asciilifeform that key, properly speaking, -is- snowden [01:59]
asciilifeform the -other- snowdens are dubious in whatever ways [01:59]
asciilifeform the more so, to the extent they appear to diverge from the authentifiable one. [01:59]
pete_dushenski i won't really argue that. [02:00]
pete_dushenski twould be to argue against maffs [02:00]
asciilifeform not sure how many folks are ready for this mental leap [02:00]
asciilifeform just as there were people who could not make the leap to 'wire is lifeless and small but can kill elephant' [02:01]
asciilifeform but it remains [02:01]
pete_dushenski as ever, many will be left behind. [02:01]
asciilifeform that - to a historian, or whatever other kind of remote third party - it is keys that 'are people' [02:01]
asciilifeform while people, to the extent that they cannot be connected with a key, are just bags of meat. [02:02]
pete_dushenski right. w/o keys, we'd just be blobs of flesh and bone, indistinguishable from any other [02:03]
pete_dushenski lol [02:03]
asciilifeform if anyone recalls, iirc it was in a mircea_popescu article that we find observation that 'to this day the holes in the mains socket have to remain small' [02:03]
pete_dushenski such an echo chamber, this place [02:03]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: the basic concept is due to hanbot's 'shall be delivered' [02:03]
pete_dushenski i'm not familiar with said concept. [02:04]
pete_dushenski !s shall be delivered [02:04]
assbot 29 results for 'shall be delivered' : [02:04]
* pete_dushenski expects bfl-related forum posts [02:04]
asciilifeform [02:04]
assbot Shall be Delivered | The Whet ... ( ) [02:04]
asciilifeform ^ monumental masterpiece [02:05]
asciilifeform in all seriousness. [02:05]
asciilifeform a good bit of why i even came to this place [02:05]
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pete_dushenski huh. fancy that. [02:07]
asciilifeform like 'the cold equations', but done -right- [02:07]
asciilifeform if i were to live for another twenty whole years, i could wish to produce something equalling this. [02:08]
pete_dushenski ah, i remember reading jurov's piece from that competition as well. [02:08]
pete_dushenski i'd like to see another such competition one of these days [02:09]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [05:49]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [05:49]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [05:49]
* [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: [05:49]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [05:49]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [05:49]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats [05:50]
gribble Current Blocks: 351360 | Current Difficulty: 4.944639068824144E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 352799 | Next Difficulty In: 1439 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 19 hours, 40 minutes, and 9 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48126215253.6 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.66991 [05:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65300 @ 0.00024857 = 16.2316 BTC [-] [05:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36600 @ 0.00024663 = 9.0267 BTC [-] {2} [06:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20050 @ 0.00024686 = 4.9495 BTC [+] [06:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00024436 = 8.1983 BTC [-] {3} [06:34]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48900 @ 0.00024341 = 11.9027 BTC [-] [06:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56950 @ 0.00024925 = 14.1948 BTC [+] [06:54]
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mats heh [07:22]
assbot Microsoft creates a container for Windows - Computerworld ... ( ) [07:22]
davout "Microsoft creates a container for Windows, reinvents toilet bowl" [07:36]
mats this is a bad idea and so is ntoskrnl support for docker [07:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.0002572 = 3.858 BTC [+] [07:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 293850 @ 0.00026252 = 77.1415 BTC [+] {6} [07:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86500 @ 0.0002433 = 21.0455 BTC [-] {2} [07:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84150 @ 0.0002507 = 21.0964 BTC [+] {2} [08:20]
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* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [08:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66350 @ 0.00026549 = 17.6153 BTC [+] [08:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61250 @ 0.00026457 = 16.2049 BTC [-] [09:04]
funkenstein_ this guy wrote a couple papers over a year ago, claiming vulns in mining [09:06]
funkenstein_ and [09:06]
funkenstein_ totally bogus [09:06]
funkenstein_ if any of you care i can write it up [09:06]
fluffypony funkenstein_: the game theoretic Nash Equilibrium stuff isn't bogus, as far as I can see [09:09]
Adlai what is there to write about it, at this point, beyond "no mining pool operator is honest enough to publicly disclose their selfish mining hashrate allocation"? [09:10]
fluffypony it is in the best interest of larger mining pools to attack smaller ones, for the most part, and even to attack each other (as long as it isn't a matter of mutually assured destruction) [09:10]
funkenstein_ i'm not saying game theory is bogus, but their analysis of the return based on the so-called attack [09:10]
fluffypony oh I haven't looked at their specific data, just what they were generally positing [09:11]
funkenstein_ the "selfish mining" suggests that not broadcasting a found block could somehow help you [09:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70900 @ 0.00026742 = 18.9601 BTC [+] {4} [09:12]
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funkenstein_ the other one suggests that mining for a pool and throwing away found blocks could somehow help you [09:12]
Adlai it helps you by hurting your enemy worse than it hurts you, for certain ratios between your total available hashpower, your selfish-allocated-hashpower, and the hashpower under attack [09:14]
funkenstein_ Adlai, their formulae are flawed.. they assume total network hashrate -m- is the same even though you are throwing away solved blocks [09:15]
funkenstein_ also calling somebody an enemy and then hurting them is not rational behavior. looking at your collected BTC is rational behavior. [09:16]
funkenstein_ throwing money away is hardly an "attack" [09:17]
mircea_popescu jurov you still need this ? [09:17]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ i'd read it. [09:17]
mircea_popescu fluffypony how is it not ? [09:17]
jurov what? [09:17]
mircea_popescu jurov you highlighted me for withdrawals. you still need it ? [09:18]
fluffypony mircea_popescu: how is what not? [09:18]
jurov of course. and it's not me, but a coinbr client [09:18]
mircea_popescu dude am i the only one with a scrollback or something. how is the "nash equilibrium" stuff sensible. [09:18]
funkenstein_ ok cool, I'll give it a shot :) [09:18]
mircea_popescu even leaving aside the rank nonsense of the particular "analysis". the concept that it is somehow game-theoretic feasible for a one-of-many arrangement to attack everyone is at least bizarre. [09:19]
mircea_popescu territoriality developed in living things for instance specifically to try and pierce this problem. [09:20]
fluffypony mining pools aren't laid out like that though [09:20]
mircea_popescu so model a case for me ? [09:20]
fluffypony they're super concentrated [09:20]
fluffypony two mining pools that control 25% of the hashrate each, mining pool A and B [09:20]
mircea_popescu so ? even if there's only two - the +ev outcome is collaboration not hostility. [09:20]
mircea_popescu which is the real risk here : if pools collaborate TOO MUCH we end up with usg 2.0 [09:21]
fluffypony it is in A's best interest to setup a new pool, C, and then DDoS B so that C's % of the hashrate grows [09:21]
mircea_popescu unless there's actually C1...Cn and any of THEIR hash rate grows. [09:22]
fluffypony in fact, since the cost of starting and operating a pool is low, and they already have the technical know-how, they can setup a whole hoard of seemingly legitimate pools [09:22]
fluffypony and attack all the pools they don't want [09:22]
mircea_popescu no, because the cost is principally social. [09:22]
mircea_popescu you seem to go on this remnant of forum dumb where the technical costs are relevant in bitcoin. they are not. [09:22]
mircea_popescu the barrier to entry to making mpex is not "making the software". same for pools, [09:22]
fluffypony but we can't observe the social fabric [09:22]
funkenstein_ they don't mention DDOS in the papers anyway [09:22]
mircea_popescu same for a wallet or anything. [09:22]
mircea_popescu fluffypony the fact we can't observe it doesn't allow us to value it at 0. [09:23]
fluffypony because the owner of pool A and pool B could be the same [09:23]
fluffypony and miners don't care who owns a pool [09:23]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ we left aside the idiots in question and are discussing the theoretic theory. [09:23]
fluffypony just that it has low latency and is stable [09:23]
funkenstein_ lol good move [09:23]
mircea_popescu miners care deeply who owns a pool. [09:23]
mircea_popescu which is why large miners make their own. [09:23]
* Adlai is genuinely curious to see whether funkenstein_'s criticism extends beyond "this behavior is not rational, for me and my rational friends" [09:23]
mircea_popescu small miners don't care, but this is universal - they don't care about anything, including rig safety. [09:24]
mircea_popescu jurov upon inspection seems it went out a while ago ? [09:24]
Adlai the observation which seems correct is that they don't account for the drop in difficulty caused by hashpower diverted towards attack... but i'm not certain that this lack of accounting is in their favor [09:25]
mircea_popescu which attack is this ? [09:25]
Adlai withholding valid blocks from competing pools [09:26]
mircea_popescu eh that's been done to death. [09:27]
funkenstein_ the real equilibrium is to send zero of your miners off to throw their hash rate at nothing [09:27]
mircea_popescu the discussion i mean. there's srsly nothing there. [09:27]
Adlai afaict, the only people who can credibly back up such a statement are pool operators [09:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54900 @ 0.00025801 = 14.1647 BTC [-] [09:28]
fluffypony mircea_popescu: "miners care deeply who owns a pool" - we're getting into the realm of the anecdotal here, the mining farms I supply ASIC racks to don't care about the people running the pools they use at all, and they don't run their own [09:28]
fluffypony you may know some that do [09:29]
* mircea_popescu shrugs. derps in reddit care who said god hates faggots. yet people who actually have stuff riding on this don't care about stuff that matters. i dunno, seems rather anecdotal. [09:29]
Adlai and they can't credibly say "we're not withholding blocks from competing pools", only "our submitted shares are not suggestive of such an attack being performed against us" [09:29]
mircea_popescu Adlai the attack itself, as a model, does not work. [09:29]
mircea_popescu fluffypony if miners actually don't care, how do you explain 50btc/btcguild's demise after their collusion with gavin last year ? [09:30]
jurov mircea_popescu yes it did, nm [09:30]
Adlai it may indeed be a DoS on minds, withholding relevant problems by suggesting subtly irrelevant ones in their stead [09:30]
mircea_popescu i mean... they should still be here, riught ? they owned a year ago, right ? what happened ? [09:30]
mircea_popescu yet they're gone. [09:31]
fluffypony they're not talking about a situation like that [09:31]
mircea_popescu someone, somewhere, must have cared. [09:31]
fluffypony they're talking about a surreptitious attack where the attacker is not known [09:31]
mircea_popescu right. so people don't care unless they do ? [09:31]
fluffypony even though, in reality, it is a competing pool [09:31]
mircea_popescu right. [09:31]
fluffypony Pool A won't attack Pool B and then put out a blog post bragging about it [09:31]
Adlai and, miner C could be mining on pool A, and getting paid according to pool A's public stats, but actually be "working" on an attack against pool B [09:32]
mircea_popescu fluffypony let's see this. pool A has 25% of hash rate. pool B has 30% of hash rate. there's 45 other pools each with 1%. [09:32]
mircea_popescu now, pool A does the following : [09:32]
mircea_popescu 1. makes 500 new pools. complete with persuasive admins (1 per) who keep social media profiles etc. [09:33]
mircea_popescu 2. ddos' pool B. as if ddos is not actually a solved problem. [09:33]
Adlai ultimately funkenstein_'s article could consist entirely of a link to [09:33]
assbot ... ( ) [09:33]
mircea_popescu as a result of 1 and 2, 50% of people mining on B move, leaving it with 11% hash rate. the resulting 24% difference moves to pools, 90% of which are A's. [09:33]
mircea_popescu right ? [09:33]
mircea_popescu the cost of 1) is what, 100k ? 500k ? the cost of 2) is what, 100k ? 500k ? the benefit from the gained market share is... what ? [09:34]
fluffypony DDoS isn't a solved problem for Stratum, and especially not for mining where latency is of the utmost concern [09:34]
mircea_popescu wait, a pool makes virtually no money. [09:34]
mircea_popescu this attack makes 0 sense. [09:34]
mircea_popescu do you have any idea how long it'd take a pool (just that, nothing else) to make back 100 dollars after server costs ? [09:35]
fluffypony miners configure their mining setup with failover pools, but it failsover based on latency as well as a pool being unreachable [09:35]
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fluffypony so all they have to do is inconvenience the pool and miners will failover [09:35]
mircea_popescu so [09:35]
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Adlai why is ddos an issue here? this attack is not a ddos [09:36]
mircea_popescu Adlai the "withholding" thing is idiocy of prime order. it existe,d historically (ie, cca 2011) and was a problem for early pools. but it was SHARE withholding, not block withholding. it was fixed meanwhile. [09:36]
fluffypony also, as I understand it, we're talking about a future time when running a pool *is* more profitable than it is now [09:36]
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mircea_popescu people became intellectually enamoured with it and keep spouting it everywhere, as a sort of cargo-cult bitcoin "knowledges" [09:36]
mircea_popescu fluffypony yes fluffs, in a game theoretic universe where cows are spherical and it rains glass, one could accidentally make a cow snowglobe. [09:37]
* fluffypony moooooos [09:37]
mircea_popescu and that's my point here : these are discussions of no substance used by reddit dorks to be discussing things. [09:37]
mircea_popescu bitcoin equivalent of "did leia really enjoy it" or w/e. [09:38]
Adlai the really funny bit from the (second) paper is "This would push miners to join private pools which can verify that their registered miners do not withhold blocks" [09:39]
Adlai the only way to _verify_ that your miners haven't withheld blocks, rather than trusting their word for it, is to check those nonces yourself [09:39]
mircea_popescu trivially solved with wot anyway. [09:40]
Adlai how? [09:40]
mircea_popescu because identity being expensive, it's no longer productive to attack. [09:40]
Adlai such an attack, properly executed, would be indistinguishable from bad luck [09:40]
mircea_popescu orly. [09:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82900 @ 0.00026878 = 22.2819 BTC [+] {3} [09:41]
mircea_popescu so i give you nonces 1-100 to hash , and fluffy nonces 101-200. and you report nothing found, and he reports nothing found. and then one day a block on nonce 76 is found and you are forever fucked. [09:41]
Adlai "one day"? [09:42]
mircea_popescu yes. [09:42]
Adlai a when the same merkle root shows up again? [09:42]
Adlai as you like to say - mkay. [09:42]
mircea_popescu or when i feel like testing some nonce blocks,. [09:42]
mircea_popescu which, after all, i can do. [09:43]
Adlai sure, but now we're back to [09:43]
assbot Logged on 09-04-2015 12:34:19; Adlai: the only way to _verify_ that your miners haven't withheld blocks, rather than trusting their word for it, is to check those nonces yourself [09:43]
mircea_popescu but the problem is solved by a wot. [09:43]
Adlai addressed != solvedh [09:44]
mircea_popescu which is what this is : inexistent problems that don't exist being misunderstood as existing by people who don't understand how anything works, and then failing to see that even should they exist, the solution also exists. [09:44]
mircea_popescu the rub, of course, being the entire "oh but bitcoin is anonymous" [09:45]
mircea_popescu no it's not fucking anonymous. it's pseudonymous. different fucking things. identity still exists! [09:45]
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mats interesting. [10:10]
assbot ... ( ) [10:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75000 @ 0.00026894 = 20.1705 BTC [+] [10:12]
mircea_popescu << muy butthurt. [10:12]
assbot The Terrible Unspoken Implications Of Star Wars Slave Leia ... ( ) [10:12]
mircea_popescu fwiw, i had no idea leia is supposed to be anything BUT the slave chick. [10:12]
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mircea_popescu dude with the article must have had some pretty odd searches in the past. my "google images" for princess leia consists of 20 hits of the woman wearing some sort of white overalls, with the 17th being her in actual atire. [10:14]
mircea_popescu ah, finally found the truely iconic max hardcore. [10:19]
assbot ... ( ) [10:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26750 @ 0.00026178 = 7.0026 BTC [-] [10:21]
mircea_popescu mats 100 bucks ? srsly ? [10:21]
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mats heh. tacit admission that you can't buy this kinda time either way, imo. [10:22]
mircea_popescu "In order to encourage participation we would like to be able to award more substantial prizes. If you would like to donate to this cause, please contact us!" [10:23]
mircea_popescu yeah, herp, contact "us". who the fuck are us. [10:23]
mircea_popescu mats well, it's training, i gather. trainee pieces aren't either useful or valuable, per se. so you're not really "buying" anything. [10:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97350 @ 0.00026947 = 26.2329 BTC [+] {2} [10:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00026364 = 5.6419 BTC [-] [10:54]
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lobbes re: withholding blocks. So basically, mircea_popescu, you are saying that anything gained from withholding said blocks would be outweighed by the potential destruction of one's reputation (which is expensive to build)? [11:11]
lobbes but to Adlai's point, could there not be one derp out there who 'withholds' enough until that 'one day' to make it worth it (in his eyes)? [11:11]
lobbes perhaps I am missing something [11:12]
Adlai if miners and pool operators choose to conduct such attacks against eachother (note that the attacks are against eachother, not against "bitcoin"), they can be fought... the attack becomes more expensive, and mining becomes more expensive, due to the defense [11:14]
Adlai with "the defense" taking some form such as a pool operator negrating a miner who has an unreasonable dropoff of share-finding luck just below the difficulty threshhold [11:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80950 @ 0.00027136 = 21.9666 BTC [+] {2} [11:16]
lobbes hmm, okay that makes sense [11:17]
Adlai this is expensive for the pool operator because he needs to send redundant work units to various miners, to get them checking eachother [11:18]
lobbes so the 'attacker' is disincentivized due to this rising cost, and the fact that 'statistically' he is being outed by not finding his shares at the expected rate (thus, reputation suffers) [11:22]
danielpbarron height=318707 vs height=222108 [11:26]
* assbot gives voice to bitstein [11:35]
bitstein "I'm not dead yet!" [11:35]
assbot Stellar Consensus Protocol: Proof and Code - Stellar ... ( ) [11:35]
bitstein "Is the new system live? Not yet." [11:35]
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bitstein Still cracks me up: "There are at least 177 instances in which ripple and stellar’s code matched up. In its haste to get its currency established, Stellar simply copied ripple’s open-source code but evidently its search-and-replace missed many instances where the code still says 'ripple.'" [11:40]
assbot The Race to Replace Bitcoin | Observer ... ( ) [11:40]
Chillum my new computer is so quiet it seems like something is missing [11:43]
mats such incompetence. how hard is it to use sed? [11:46]
lobbes 'but evidently its search-and-replace missed many instances where the code still says 'ripple.' < l0l [11:46]
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Adlai according to the papers' model: there is no incentive to be the first attacker, but there is incentive to be the Nth, N+1st, etc [11:51]
Adlai painting this picture of a mining commons on the brink of tragedy [11:52]
Adlai concern trolling in a fancy typeface [11:52]
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bitstein At SXSW, I snuck into a Bitcoin 2.0 panel Jed McCaleb was on. During the Q&A I got up and asked, “Last December the Stellar blog had a post called ‘Safety, liveness and fault tolerance—the consensus choices’ that described how there was a fork in the ledger and subsequently, Stellar had essentially collapsed into a centralized system. Can you elaborate on what happened and why people should trust Stellar in its aftermath?” He [12:03]
bitstein gave a long answer describing the fork and giving lip service to this new consensus mechanism in the works, but failed to address the second part. So before they moved on, I followed up, “But right now, Stellar is a centralized system?” He begrudgingly responded, “It runs on one node, yes.” After my question they all went right on back to talking about how awful centralization is and how great the decentralized future is. [12:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00027201 = 6.093 BTC [+] [12:09]
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mats i'm confused as to Kaminsky's role in all this [12:20]
mats conned or what? lent his name for a buck to some trash? [12:20]
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funkenstein_ did kaminsky do anything other than allow his name listed as technical advisor? [12:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75200 @ 0.00026971 = 20.2822 BTC [-] {2} [12:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00026797 = 4.0196 BTC [-] [13:01]
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mats dunno. [13:12]
mats [13:13]
assbot Intel ME huffman dictionaries - Unhuffme v2.3 ... ( ) [13:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58000 @ 0.00027252 = 15.8062 BTC [+] [13:17]
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chetty [13:33]
assbot Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting ... ( ) [13:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34584 @ 0.00026507 = 9.1672 BTC [-] [13:36]
ben_vulpes huehuehuehu [13:37]
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[]bot Bet placed: 3.5 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before August 2015" Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.21237 BTC. Current weight: 82,570. [13:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86035 @ 0.00026076 = 22.4345 BTC [-] {3} [13:49]
[]bot Bet placed: 2.166 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 15.79172615 BTC. Current weight: 86,260. [13:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 207700 @ 0.00025817 = 53.6219 BTC [+] {3} [14:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82813 @ 0.00025446 = 21.0726 BTC [-] {3} [14:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55200 @ 0.00026507 = 14.6319 BTC [+] [14:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57200 @ 0.00026507 = 15.162 BTC [+] [14:59]
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mircea_popescu lobbes no dude, i am saying about 50 other things. [15:04]
mircea_popescu model this attack and i'll show you one thin that's wrong with it enough to sink it. [15:05]
mircea_popescu i'm never going to be able to show you ALL the things that are wrong wqith it, being that it's nonsense. [15:05]
* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [15:05]
mircea_popescu you're like the guy going "so mp you're saying the perpetuum mobile could not exist because X ?" sure, x if you want it. [15:05]
funkenstein_ <-- my writeup from earlier convo [15:06]
assbot e-Print archive, viXra:1504.0072, “The Majority is Enough” a Rebuttal of Two Proposed Vulnerabilities of Bitcoin Mining ... ( ) [15:06]
mircea_popescu bitstein the observer makes the valid code replace point, but STILL names its article "the race to replace bitcoin". as fucking if. "the race to waste imbecile capitalist money, the new hot valley term for what was once known as a venture capitalist" was radioactive or something. [15:07]
mircea_popescu such incompetence. how hard is it to use sed? << real muppets use excel. [15:07]
mircea_popescu concern trolling in a fancy typeface << word. [15:08]
mircea_popescu conned or what? lent his name for a buck to some trash? << intelligent people have a lot of trouble avoiding locklin's mistake. [15:09]
mircea_popescu da fuck is vixra. [15:09]
funkenstein_ arxiv backwards [15:10]
mircea_popescu and im not reading a pdf. what the fuck funkenstein_ . [15:10]
funkenstein_ lol i throw it on a blog then [15:10]
mircea_popescu dude...srsly. a walled garden/proprietary platform is bad in and of itself. it's not bad only if it becomes big. [15:10]
mircea_popescu the difference between this stupid diqus shit and just writing for gawker is 0. [15:10]
mircea_popescu own your content, AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT. you don't need someone else deciding anything whatsoever. not what url to use. not when to "put up a warning page". not. ANYTHING. [15:11]
funkenstein_ hmm i hadn't thought of it like that [15:12]
mircea_popescu you don't want me to think "hey that was a great piece, i wonder IF ARXIV ORG HAS MORE" [15:12]
mircea_popescu fuck them. you want me to tihnk "i wonder if you have more" [15:12]
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mircea_popescu you know ellison ? << watch this. [15:12]
assbot Harlan Ellison -- Pay the Writer - YouTube ... ( ) [15:12]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [15:12]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [15:12]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [15:12]
ascii_field re: the whole pdf thing ... [15:15]
ascii_field it would help if there were actually a proper replacement for it. [15:15]
ascii_field (html plus jpegs are not one) [15:16]
mircea_popescu then people wonder about kaminsky. EXACT SAME THING. you lot have been so mentally stunted by the stupid welfare state, you do this sort of shit. "oh, i wonder if arxiv backwards . org paid funkenstein_ anything". no dude, they didn't, he's just silly like that. like everyone in that country. [15:16]
mircea_popescu ascii_field "replacement" in what sense ? [15:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35002 @ 0.00024832 = 8.6917 BTC [-] [15:17]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: in the sense of accurate and resolution-independent mapping to flattened dead tree [15:17]
funkenstein_ ascii_field how about .ps [15:19]
ascii_field funkenstein_: pdf is more or less ps plus a bit of header [15:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24292 @ 0.00026686 = 6.4826 BTC [+] {2} [15:20]
funkenstein_ mircea_popescu, their (arxiv / vixra) competion is journals that charge the author per page [15:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00024832 = 5.6617 BTC [-] [15:26]
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mircea_popescu !up Guest63251 [15:41]
-assbot- You voiced Guest63251 for 30 minutes. [15:41]
* assbot gives voice to Guest63251 [15:41]
mircea_popescu no dude, that's how *they hope to make money*. later on. once "we" and "contact us" have got enough of this fuzzy baseless trust made by appealing to a certain naivity of the intelligent. [15:42]
mircea_popescu "o look, they're hippy dippy cool and got cat pictures". what "they" ? and it's not THEIR fucking cat, either. [15:42]
ascii_field plankton filter feeders. [15:43]
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mircea_popescu 'cause that's all they know, facebook model. pretend like "we" are interacting with the stakeholders but stay anonymous, and then if/when this gets big enough, assert a new identity and whoopdeedoo, claim you're worth a billion. [15:43]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [15:43]
mircea_popescu "because people follow us". well fuck you, back when YOU were anonymous, joe schmoe and lucy lue followed you. not "people". [15:43]
mircea_popescu now that you wish to be facebook inc, suddenly *they* gotta be you know "people", to take the place of the vague "we". [15:44]
mircea_popescu oldest scam in the book, this identity transfer. keep your identity, it's yours. [15:44]
mircea_popescu and for that matter, it's not only the most valuable thing you'll ever have - it's outright the only one. [15:44]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [15:44]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [15:44]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [15:44]
mircea_popescu ascii_field how about forget .ps which is fine, and .tex [15:45]
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ascii_field mircea_popescu: aha lol 'tabletrons' etc. viewer gadgets expected to render .tex now ? [15:46]
mircea_popescu the failure of widgets is a problem of the widgetmaker. do not ask me to solve it till i market a widget. [15:46]
ascii_field and, to use gnu's terminology, .tex is often 'not the preferred format for modification' - as in, it is frequently machine-generated [15:46]
mircea_popescu ascii_field dude, pdf is not for modification either [15:46]
mircea_popescu you wanna modify it, use a txt [15:47]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: you are proposing equivalent of selling raw crude at the petrol station [15:47]
mircea_popescu pdfs are ALWAYS machine generate.d [15:47]
mircea_popescu what the fuck you wrote one by hand ?! [15:47]
Chillum Portable Defence Failure [15:48]
ascii_field .tex plus illustrations, whatever perl crud etc. was used to munge data into figures, possible latex preprocessing, etc. sometimes takes GB of ram and hour of fast cpu [15:48]
ascii_field at least for academic papers, or high res scans [15:48]
ascii_field to go to raster of given res, that is [15:48]
mircea_popescu so does pdf, in same conditions. except you gotta use either a windows bundle or else more perl crud munged together. [15:48]
ascii_field -to- pdf [15:49]
mircea_popescu right [15:49]
ascii_field but pointing out that asking printer or tablet makers to build machines which can swallow .tex is a nonstarter [15:49]
mircea_popescu every printer i ever saw ate tex wtf. [15:49]
mircea_popescu you mean like a desktop ? [15:50]
ascii_field -unprocessed- tex [15:50]
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ascii_field this is quite like proposing that bitcoind be built -on- the pogo. [15:50]
mircea_popescu so because -unprocessed- pdf doesn't actually exist you figure this is an argument ? [15:50]
ascii_field at every boot. [15:50]
ascii_field i actually do not like pdf, for various reasons, some of which overlap with mircea_popescu's. i prefer a wavelet-compressed format, 'djvu' [15:51]
ascii_field but don't try to say 'you should like scrolling and pixellated graphics, forget about paper and author-specified pagination' [15:51]
ascii_field because fuck no. [15:51]
mircea_popescu i dunno im saying this. [15:52]
ascii_field the 'we want everything in www-readable plain text' concept sorta implies. [15:52]
mircea_popescu but fwiw, my experience as an actual author is that the html format is WAY better than the pdf format for the web, which is why trilema is not delivered in pdfs. [15:52]
mircea_popescu now, one's experience may vary, i've not printed a book in a decade, [15:52]
mircea_popescu but it still seems to me a narrow corner case notrly contemplated here. [15:53]
ascii_field www works fine for text and the occasional bitmap [15:53]
ascii_field but there are folks who read maths, or blueprints, or scanned historical documents. [15:54]
mircea_popescu actually trilema as-is works better for ALL of these than pdf. [15:55]
ascii_field wut [15:55]
mircea_popescu me being a folk who reads maths, and historeical documents. even the original blueprint. [15:55]
mircea_popescu ? or what part specifically ? [15:56]
assbot Come see me dream math. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [15:56]
ascii_field i insist on these to be either on a) paper b) device with dimensions and pixel density of paper, which i own - but in both cases - retaining the original pagination [15:56]
ascii_field and fucking -hate- scrolling [15:56]
mircea_popescu you hate scrolling ? [15:57]
ascii_field aha [15:57]
mircea_popescu yeah, well there it is. [15:57]
mircea_popescu i grant you, if you hate scrolling you'll have to engage in strange to compensate. [15:57]
ascii_field i like moving eyeballs in y as well as x axis [15:57]
ascii_field this is normal! [15:57]
mircea_popescu normal ? [15:57]
ascii_field x-only is like seeing life through a tank periscope [15:58]
mircea_popescu as in "what everyone does" normal or as in "what should be done" normative-normal ? [15:58]
ascii_field as in what the meat likes [15:58]
ascii_field because of how it was shaped [15:58]
mircea_popescu your meat knows ? [15:58]
ascii_field sorta like mircea_popescu's insistence on 1cm tall characters [15:58]
ascii_field the meat - otherwise rebells [15:58]
mircea_popescu do you also hate inequal pixel sizes ? like, you know, is your monitor square ? [15:58]
ben_vulpes yeah mircea_popescu how does your meat know that 1cm? [15:58]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: would love a square display with square pixels [15:59]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes at least my thing's consistent. [15:59]
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ben_vulpes consistently arbitrary. [15:59]
mircea_popescu ascii_field but do you have one ? [15:59]
ascii_field nope [15:59]
mircea_popescu because if you don't, seems to me you're looking through that tank periscope anyway [15:59]
mircea_popescu given that people's horiz precision is what, 3x their vert precision. [15:59]
mircea_popescu also ... normal. [16:00]
* assbot gives voice to Pierre_Rochard [16:00]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: what i do have is 4 lcd laid out in such a way as to fill my field of vision [16:00]
ascii_field so no, no periscope. [16:00]
mircea_popescu lol. [16:00]
mircea_popescu but the pixels themselves! every inch is 100 sideways and 40 vertically. [16:00]
ascii_field though out here i am in a 'tank', yes [16:01]
mircea_popescu anyway. i don't hate scrolling. i hate the situation where my field is fixed. [16:02]
mircea_popescu scrolling provides a hook into endlessness. [16:02]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: the shape of the pixels is considerably less interesting if you have ones sufficiently small to enable affine transforms of whatever kind you like, without visible distortion [16:02]
mircea_popescu and it's how i get through a million words a day. [16:02]
mircea_popescu ascii_field you're eliding the point. the fact that your misshapen pixels allow you to not see the distortion means your meat is made to look through a tank periscope in the first place. [16:03]
mircea_popescu if it weren't, the square eye wouldn't put 3x more focus on horiz than it puts on vert sync. [16:03]
ascii_field i suppose you could also say that i scroll, but simply prefer to do it with eyes rather than fingers [16:03]
mircea_popescu ascii_field the problem is that you always have a finite workspace. [16:04]
ascii_field re: pagination - author-controlled pagination, i find, is often valuable information [16:04]
mircea_popescu i find the very concept of "page" retarded. [16:05]
ascii_field think of every time you have to wiggle the y axis to fit a figure on the display [16:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27900 @ 0.00025643 = 7.1544 BTC [+] [16:05]
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ascii_field mircea_popescu: i find reading anything - other than plain text - not designed with a particular viewport geometry in mind - physically painful. [16:10]
ascii_field like an ill-fitting set of clothing [16:10]
ascii_field designed for no particular body [16:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00027062 = 7.9833 BTC [+] [16:10]
mircea_popescu well don't look at the sky then. [16:10]
* ascii_field does not often read the sky [16:11]
mircea_popescu for this reason ? [16:11]
mircea_popescu and is your underwear bespoke ? [16:11]
ascii_field no, because not much of an astronomer these days [16:11]
mircea_popescu it'd seem to me it'd be more painful to have panties made for no particular cock than you know, a shirt. [16:12]
ascii_field underwear << i would if i could (TM) [16:12]
mircea_popescu well... my tailor here'd prolly do it. it'd be weird as all fuck... but hey. [16:12]
mircea_popescu it never occured to me to ask for tailored undies. [16:12]
* ascii_field would wear tailored fucking socks if he could [16:13]
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mircea_popescu i srsly couldn't be bothered. [16:13]
ascii_field tailors ought to use 3d scanner, imho [16:14]
ascii_field but afaik none do [16:14]
ascii_field then again what do i know of tailors [16:14]
mircea_popescu stupid idea. [16:14]
ascii_field less than i know of surgeons [16:14]
mircea_popescu tailor tailors for the body, it's sinnewy depths, not for the skinshape. [16:14]
mircea_popescu you'd have to sonar it. [16:14]
ascii_field so then. [16:14]
ascii_field sonar. [16:14]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [16:15]
mircea_popescu assbot disapproves. [16:15]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [16:15]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [16:15]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [16:15]
ascii_field l0l [16:15]
ascii_field hell, nmr it [16:15]
mircea_popescu yeah, so instead of one very competent craftsman, [16:15]
mircea_popescu have a bunch of techs and mandatory clothing insurance. [16:16]
ascii_field l0l! [16:16]
ascii_field !s tuba compressor [16:17]
assbot 2 results for 'tuba compressor' : [16:17]
ascii_field re: socks: i am reminded of dan mocsny's piece on how very few people can give honest answer to the question of whether they want, e.g., a harem - because they don't have the option in menu [16:20]
ascii_field perhaps i -wouldn't- wear tailored socks, in practice [16:20]
mircea_popescu "option" ? in "menu" ?! [16:20]
mircea_popescu yeah, you wouldn't. [16:20]
ascii_field but recall the thirsty man in the desert who 'could drink a river' [16:21]
mircea_popescu myeah. [16:22]
mircea_popescu anyway, who the fuck gets women off a menu [16:23]
mircea_popescu you know the harem is not like, a block of cheese. it's an abstract name given to a complex social reality. [16:23]
chetty ascii_field, also know as can't think outside the box [16:23]
mircea_popescu like you know, "an empire". yes the empire may sink, but usually not in water. [16:23]
ascii_field chetty: not that one cannot use imagination. but it is folly to say 'i would not want atomic dirigible' unless that choice is actually there, like the decision of whether to buy a laser printer [16:24]
mircea_popescu chetty lol @those tomatoes. [16:24]
mircea_popescu ascii_field note that i wasn't commenting on whether i or anyone else would or not would want x. merely on how much sense x makes, given other things. [16:25]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: who the fuck gets women off a menu << the fella with an already-assembled harem, such as mircea_popescu ? [16:25]
mircea_popescu maybe you want an ak with a curved barrel, for all i care. [16:25]
mircea_popescu ascii_field mno. [16:25]
ascii_field ak with a curved barrel << krummlauf ! [16:26]
mircea_popescu yeah the nazis had something [16:26]
mircea_popescu stupid idea, but hey, they did have it. [16:26]
ascii_field ultra-famous [16:26]
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ascii_field and not obviously a bad idea under the circumstances [16:26]
mircea_popescu exactly. [16:26]
mircea_popescu obviously a bad idea, just not in their circumstances. [16:26]
mircea_popescu "this is the sort of item you only ever want because you fucked something else up" [16:27]
mircea_popescu widely seen in computing. [16:27]
ascii_field !s alien problem [16:27]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 369 @ 0.01000002 = 3.69 BTC [-] {2} [16:27]
assbot 2 results for 'alien problem' : [16:27]
mircea_popescu and where's that pic nubbins put in, with the "you do not want an adaptor, you think you do becaus you fucked up the light arrangement" [16:27]
ascii_field the mains cords, aha [16:27]
mircea_popescu myeah. [16:27]
ascii_field (iirc britain had a periscopic rifle sight/trigger stick in ww1, for roughly same problem) [16:28]
mircea_popescu << this guy is such a ho. [16:36]
assbot Author and Screenwriter Harlan Ellison Rants about Youth and Publishing - YouTube ... ( ) [16:36]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: ellison is interesting for another reason. he is the undisputed emperor of 'wrote a few good stories in the '50s, famous for nothing in particular since'; loudly rants demanding eternal copyright because 'creaaaatorz have riiiiiightz!!111!!' [16:38]
mircea_popescu remind me, what's his relation to scientologee ? [16:38]
ascii_field mark halperin is another [16:38]
mircea_popescu kinda goes with the woman's complaints about the what was it, hugo award ? [16:39]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: supposedly ellison witnessed the legendary bet b/w heinlein and hubbard. but afaik that's all.. [16:39]
mircea_popescu i recall when i was a kid, some of the first books printed in shiny covers etc were various sf works, which is how i even ended up owning some (ender's game, dune, other americas, crap like that) - they looked good. [16:40]
mircea_popescu and they all sported various awards, nebula, hugo, whatever. [16:40]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: that was more of a 'how dare they make an upvote ring, that's -ours- to do' [16:40]
mircea_popescu i was suspicious at the time. had an argument with other teens, with me going "that's prolly just some shit they made up for the cover" [16:40]
mircea_popescu was a big scandal in the tiny cup. evnetually tho... lo! i am vindicated. [16:41]
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ascii_field mircea_popescu: hugo is voted on, iirc, by folks who go to (or at least buy ticket to...) 'worldcon' - an sf event attended mainly by writers (in practice, the wannabees i spoke of earlier) [16:42]
mircea_popescu this doesn't qualify it for "some shit they made up for the cover" ? [16:42]
ascii_field it was made up long ago, when the american writers all knew one another [16:43]
mircea_popescu right. it's basically if they start putting on "as seen in" on shit long after we all left. [16:43]
mircea_popescu dude... it was a joke when we made it. [16:43]
ascii_field sorta like that [16:44]
mircea_popescu naggum's point re fields applies eminently. [16:44]
chetty [16:44]
mircea_popescu sf in the 50s was a spare cycle endeavour of the people who at the time didn't have bbs yet. [16:44]
assbot Victor Davis Hanson: Modern American universities are failing on four counts - San Jose Mercury News ... ( ) [16:44]
chetty my amazement on where that got published [16:45]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [16:45]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [16:45]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [16:45]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [16:45]
mircea_popescu chetty what's mercurynews ? [16:46]
ascii_field 'Colleges need to publicize the employment rates of recent graduates and the percentage of students who complete their degrees so that strapped parents can do cost-benefit analyses like they do with any other major cash investment.' << anyone recall the law school debacle ? [16:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 262594 @ 0.000272 = 71.4256 BTC [+] {6} [16:46]
ascii_field (a great many - published such figures; turned out, to no one's surprise, fabricated wholesale; then somehow entire brouhaha magicked away ) [16:46]
chetty well its San Jose, the heart of soicalism country [16:46]
mircea_popescu ascii_field nobody goes to jail for THAT kinda fraud right ? [16:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46359 @ 0.00026574 = 12.3194 BTC [-] {2} [16:47]
mircea_popescu fraud that makes the consumer "consume" is a-ok [16:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00025544 = 7.0246 BTC [-] [16:48]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: not only this, but feeds the academic mandarin class [16:48]
ascii_field who get to not only avoid starvation but live like civilized people (naturally, referring to the winners in the tournament market, not the chinese grad students here) [16:49]
ascii_field regardless of whatever result metric [16:49]
ascii_field because they, approximately, hold 'title of nobility' in usa. [16:49]
ascii_field performance metrics, in usa, are for the worker bees. [16:50]
mircea_popescu << btw, re why is he famous etc. [16:51]
assbot Harlan Ellison & Robin Williams discuss LRH - YouTube ... ( ) [16:51]
* ascii_field recalls the eternal 'the late cooper's daughter, in her december.. why was the famous? who could remember?' [16:53]
mircea_popescu heh. he never shat a plum. [16:53]
ascii_field (for those who missed, << megaclassic) [16:54]
assbot ... ( ) [16:54]
ascii_field but no, ellison only shat a few basic prunes. [16:54]
ascii_field but was 'friends with them all' and ended up in the usa sf wot. [16:54]
mircea_popescu in other news, is Casey McKinnon really a man ? [16:55]
ascii_field wut [16:55]
mircea_popescu some canadian chick. [16:56]
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ascii_field << that one ? [16:56]
assbot Casey McKinnon ... ( ) [16:56]
mircea_popescu yea [16:57]
ascii_field sooner i am a dog. [16:57]
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mircea_popescu ? [16:59]
assbot ... ( ) [16:59]
mircea_popescu really fucking weird face. [16:59]
* ascii_field does not see what is odd here [16:59]
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mircea_popescu anyway, back to ellison, guy apparently wrote a shitton. i suppose it's mostly that we don't give a shit about their pulpy universes. [17:00]
ascii_field he did [17:00]
ascii_field i happen to own a copy of most of it [17:00]
mircea_popescu which makes it seem like he did nothing. [17:00]
mircea_popescu o, really ? [17:00]
ascii_field the bulk - is quite unreadable [17:00]
ascii_field he was, imho, of a particular school of writing where threw shit at a wall hoping that some would stick [17:01]
ascii_field possibly with the help of lsd etc [17:01]
ascii_field some - did stick [17:01]
ascii_field but he persisted in letting his snr fall, fall... [17:01]
mircea_popescu i think they all did that, in the olden penny a word days [17:01]
ascii_field some with more lsd, some with less [17:01]
mircea_popescu "readers" meant "people more than willing to root through the shit, because literacy is new and printing only last year became affordable" [17:01]
mircea_popescu his nostalgia is misplaced. the first time they came up with synthetic fibers people wore them out of pride. "look at me, i am one of those withthe industry" [17:02]
mircea_popescu as they cheapened and broadened they took their proper place. not because "there aren't real wearers anymore" [17:02]
mircea_popescu but because they always sucked. [17:02]
mircea_popescu pulp was never literature. it seemed like it, because of the nonsenser that was early 19th century new york. [17:03]
ascii_field at any rate, you will find that folks obsessed with 'eternal copyright' etc. are invariably 'smallinteger-hit wonders' [17:03]
mircea_popescu obviosuly. [17:03]
ascii_field 'my fucking lottery ticket should be worth $infinity' [17:03]
mircea_popescu nah, not what's going on there imo. [17:03]
mircea_popescu more like "i have so little, please don't make it less." [17:03]
mircea_popescu it's something like this : [17:04]
assbot ... ( ) [17:04]
ascii_field another 'why is he famous?!' fella who goes on, and on, and on... about 'eternal copyright now!111!1' is jaron lanier [17:07]
mircea_popescu this one i never heard of. [17:07]
ascii_field !s lanier [17:07]
assbot 10 results for 'lanier' : [17:07]
mircea_popescu [17:08]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2015 17:38:08; mircea_popescu: "Jaron Lanier is one of the world’s great polymaths. He’s a computer scientist, composer, visual artist, and the author of a new book, Who Owns the Future?, published last month " [17:08]
mircea_popescu lolok. [17:08]
ascii_field i mentioned him at least once as specifically an example of a particularly vile species sometimes called 'digerati' [17:08]
mats i had the worst day [17:09]
mats working for idiots is awful [17:09]
mircea_popescu << check it out, back when they had to hold up the mics, still raving about 1984 and orwellian society. [17:09]
assbot 1984 Orwells Warning With Harlan Ellison - YouTube ... ( ) [17:09]
mircea_popescu mats o ya ? what happened ? [17:09]
mats my manager dicked around on a server and threw me under the bus when he fucked up [17:10]
mircea_popescu heh. [17:11]
mircea_popescu so walk, what. [17:12]
ascii_field not walk. fly, on atomic dirigible [17:13]
mircea_popescu he doesn't sound old enough to need a job, that doesn't sound like a job good enough to want, etc. [17:13]
mats gotta eat. [17:14]
* ascii_field does not, afaik, know anyone in local meatspace who 'doesn't need a job' [17:14]
ascii_field it isn't strictly an age thing, beyond a certain point [17:14]
mircea_popescu mats so walk next time. [17:15]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:16]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [17:16]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [17:16]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:16]
mircea_popescu doesn't sound like you'll face a dearth of opportunities. [17:16]
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mats after i clean this up imma start looking, but, i'm still 'entry level' as far as years-employed goes [17:17]
mircea_popescu fuck that. why would you ever take a standard that disadvantages you ? [17:17]
mircea_popescu when you're young, you only talk in performance terms. [17:17]
mircea_popescu when you're old it's time for "years employed" metrics. [17:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75250 @ 0.00024999 = 18.8117 BTC [-] {3} [17:18]
mircea_popescu you never, ever, no matter what happens, accept a metric that puts you behind. [17:18]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: now you know why i'm in my mousetrap. [17:18]
mircea_popescu that's to be done with your teachers, not with the fucking employers. [17:18]
mircea_popescu ascii_field no ? [17:18]
ascii_field can't speak for mats, but basic idea is that once you leave your meatwot, you are a fungible machine. this is a situation that, as mats put it, 'resets you to entry level' - and overwhelmingly favours the very young [17:19]
mats as you know, a proper master is rare... [17:19]
mircea_popescu ascii_field nominally. not factually. [17:19]
ascii_field there is not so much employment in the world for the 'naggum' variety of engineer. and one hundred percent of it is built on meat wots, years-long personal relationships and 'ins'. [17:20]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 597 @ 0.00259003 = 1.5462 BTC [-] {8} [17:21]
ascii_field step outside of this, and you are fighting with the monkeys for monkey food. [17:21]
ascii_field ('www dev' etc.) [17:21]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1000 @ 0.002575 = 2.575 BTC [-] {2} [17:22]
ascii_field one very important fact is that a 'naggum' - if he is the genuine article - is a -destroyer- of jobs for his own kind, rather than creator thereof [17:23]
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ascii_field one could argue that this is not true, and that 'there is still as much work for systems engineers today as in '70 - because nothing really works' - but 'as much work' does not mean 'as much employment' [17:24]
mircea_popescu i really don't agree with any of these. [17:24]
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ascii_field hm? [17:26]
ben_vulpes "more work" << obligatory: [17:26]
assbot ... ( ) [17:26]
mircea_popescu ascii_field you propose that if you were taken to a jungle, you would have trouble exterminating monkeys ? [17:26]
mircea_popescu on what is this you-them difference predicated then ? [17:27]
mircea_popescu aesthetic considerations ? skin tone ? [17:27]
ascii_field why stop at monkeys [17:27]
mircea_popescu your term. [17:27]
ascii_field one man in the field would likely fall to sufficient cockroaches [17:27]
mircea_popescu uh... [17:27]
ascii_field what then is the difference between he and they [17:27]
mircea_popescu wait, no man was ever killed by cockroaches. what are you on about ? [17:27]
ascii_field probably would make more sense with ants. [17:28]
ascii_field plenty killed by ants. [17:28]
ascii_field granted, usually 'played with handicap' [17:29]
ascii_field but the crashed pilot in the jungle likewise plays with handicap vs beasts which grew up there. [17:29]
mircea_popescu you know, the shapeshifting amoebic consistency of your position suggests to me that you'd rather it weren't discussed after all. which is it ? [17:29]
ascii_field here i don't have a position as such, only observations [17:29]
mircea_popescu mkay. [17:30]
ascii_field these observations are based 'in my light cone' naturally. [17:30]
ascii_field speaking of exterminating monkeys, recall the thread with the strength of pan troglodytis ? [17:31]
mircea_popescu you'd obviously avoid pissing them off and snipe them [17:38]
ascii_field while the rifle has rounds - yes. [17:39]
mircea_popescu i didn't say rifle. [17:39]
mircea_popescu firesharpened sticks, what. [17:39]
ascii_field the point, which i evidently failed to get across, is that the man vs chimp contest requires the man to at least get a chance to sharpen a stick, in order to use his advantage over the beast [17:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48845 @ 0.00024411 = 11.9236 BTC [-] {2} [17:40]
ascii_field put the two together bare-handed - chimp will tear off limbs and rape the corpse [17:40]
ascii_field does not matter how clever was the man [17:40]
mircea_popescu the other point, which for some reason you don't seem inclined to appreciate, is that if the difference between man and beast doesn't exist, then the nominal difference is spurious. [17:40]
mircea_popescu so just say "a monkey among monkeys" [17:40]
ascii_field if only [17:41]
ascii_field man makes a terrible chimp [17:41]
ascii_field this is why the zoologist gets eaten every time [17:41]
ascii_field if he visits enough [17:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86327 @ 0.0002417 = 20.8652 BTC [-] [17:41]
mircea_popescu i dunno. [17:41]
mircea_popescu i never met an eaten antrhopologist. [17:41]
mircea_popescu (zoologists usually stick to amoebae) [17:41]
ascii_field iirc there is a hypothesis that it is why they attack - he fails to respond to some important chimp gesture of dom/sub protocol handshake [17:41]
ascii_field << just one randomly selected example [17:43]
assbot Jane Goodall Institute Chimpanzee Eden Attack Leaves American With 'Multiple And Severe Bite Wounds' ... ( ) [17:43]
mircea_popescu this was in a cage ? [17:44]
ascii_field nope [17:44]
ascii_field or, hm [17:44]
ascii_field 'when two chimpanzees grabbed his feet and pulled him under a fence into their enclosure...' [17:44]
mircea_popescu "Andrew F. Oberle was giving a lecture to a group of tourists at the Chimp Eden sanctuary on Thursday when two chimpanzees grabbed his feet and pulled him under a fence into their enclosure, said Jeffrey Wicks of the Netcare911 emergency services company." [17:45]
mircea_popescu dude come on. [17:45]
ascii_field what is surprising? the thing has roughly 5x the strength of a man, per gram of muscle. [17:45]
mircea_popescu what is surprising is that you're passing off chimps in a zoo for chimps in the wild, [17:46]
ascii_field tears man like paper. like hydraulic pistons of bulldozer. [17:46]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:46]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [17:46]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [17:46]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:46]
mircea_popescu and generally that this conversation keeps sliding towards less and less related stuff. [17:46]
ascii_field (i very clearly recall incident of specialist who dealt with chimps in the wild, getting 'chimped' after many uneventful years. but lost the link.) [17:47]
ascii_field to get back to original point, that i attempted to make, - division of labour exists, and not everyone is a universal and reshapeable everything. [17:47]
* BingoBoingo recalls suprise at mircea_popescu's default chimp being the blowjob species [17:47]
mircea_popescu why ? [17:47]
mircea_popescu ascii_field well, anything may happen, sure. [17:48]
mircea_popescu similarly, shopper got shot in muggery after many years of safe shopping. [17:48]
ascii_field this is more of a 'that day was suddenly torn limb from limb by the other shoppers' thing [17:49]
ascii_field iirc [17:49]
mircea_popescu ascii_field the difference between smart and stupid is that smart can be stupid, but stupid can't be smart. that's it. [17:49]
mircea_popescu if this condition is not satisfied, you're looking at mere kinds of stupid. [17:49]
ascii_field not sure if this will make sense, but living as a stupid -social- organism takes a lifetime of practice. [17:50]
ascii_field consider organic vs congenital brain damage [17:50]
mircea_popescu your liking it is not in discussion. [17:50]
ascii_field not liking per se, but sustainably (without external feeding) functioning. [17:50]
mircea_popescu so you're telling me you couldn't flunk tests. because it's "in your nature" to pass them. [17:50]
mircea_popescu can you see how this would essentially be socialist ideology ? [17:51]
mircea_popescu "no need to pay creators for creating - it's what they do" [17:51]
ascii_field could quite easily flunk tests. could not convincingly worm into the company of folks who grew up doing so. [17:51]
mircea_popescu why not ? [17:51]
ascii_field didn't grow up drinking their swill, speaking their hundred-word language, watching their sporting crud, etc. [17:52]
mircea_popescu so ? [17:52]
mircea_popescu not like it's hard. [17:52]
ascii_field mircea_popescu could convince an eskimo that he is an eskimo ? [17:53]
ascii_field if not, why not ? [17:53]
mircea_popescu surely. [17:53]
mircea_popescu and if i couldn't that failure'd score pretty high up on the priority board. [17:53]
* ascii_field takes off hat, does not know anyone else who would dare to attempt it. [17:53]
mircea_popescu im a tall lanky white eskimo from romania. problem ? [17:54]
ascii_field l0l [17:54]
ascii_field 'stop sending the blacks' (TM) [17:54]
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* ascii_field recalls how richard sorge, perhaps greatest spy who ever lived, still stuck to impersonating a german - rather than japanese - official, while in jp [17:54]
mircea_popescu nevertheless. [17:55]
mircea_popescu speaking of spies, i was kinda surpriosed to see news item linked yesterday casually point out the deep reason for why exactly us gaver up on actual humint to focus on mostl pointless sigint [17:56]
mircea_popescu "we can't afford to train and then to lose the agents what with these new techniques" [17:56]
mircea_popescu i thought that wasn't mentionable. [17:56]
ascii_field mentionable, like everything else, so long as the context is sufficiently obfuscated (or can be presumed to be unknown to the chumps) [17:57]
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mircea_popescu aha. [17:57]
* cazalla is now known as Guest69657 [17:57]
ascii_field just like the other tidbit from yesterday, re: the arctic exercises. [17:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47650 @ 0.00025471 = 12.1369 BTC [+] [17:58]
ascii_field and before we say 'the americans and their wasted effort on pointless sigint' - let's recall how they set up a whole planet as chumpers who can't access a sane computing system at any price... [17:59]
ascii_field (pedants will answer 'desinfo ain't sigint' but in usa they are presided over by the same people) [18:00]
mircea_popescu the planet needed no help with that. [18:00]
mircea_popescu let's not credit passing swallows for rain shall we. [18:00]
mircea_popescu next you're going to tell me growing autism is the intentional effect of tradecraft. [18:00]
ascii_field the sparrow may not be to blame for the spring, but the matter of the birdshit on statue - another. [18:01]
mircea_popescu looky here : nothing works unless individuals sovereign over them. [18:01]
mircea_popescu the car is functional today to the degree that it is functional for this reason. [18:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00025471 = 7.6413 BTC [+] [18:01]
mircea_popescu ic had no such luck. you could say shockley made a bad king. [18:01]
mircea_popescu rocketry exists because of that nazi us citizen, not because of any government, or other group of people. and on and on. [18:02]
ascii_field aha. [18:02]
mircea_popescu there's always going to be fields with and fields without the luck. [18:02]
mircea_popescu this - spring. [18:03]
mircea_popescu (and before anyone wants to argue re ford : the man pissed on a field of patents, ignored the law and basically ordered anyone messing with his stuff murdered.) [18:03]
ascii_field ^ ditto edison [18:03]
mircea_popescu for that matter - electricity had a bad king, and it still sucks to this day, as discussed yest [18:03]
ascii_field who in fact invented modern patent trollage [18:04]
mircea_popescu granted, not as bad as shockley. [18:04]
mircea_popescu people, if left to do what threy will, will just make piles of shit. it's what people do. [18:05]
ascii_field except for the ones who won't [18:06]
ascii_field (paulgraham, pre-braindamage, called the difference 'good taste' but not sure if this is descriptive) [18:06]
mircea_popescu "people" in the collective. [18:06]
ascii_field then trivially yes. [18:07]
Adlai pg: "hackers, like painters, both make things" rando troll: "so do chickens" [18:07]
mircea_popescu it may be good taste, but it more likely is a firm decision to burn anything and everything until it either behaves or goes away. [18:07]
ascii_field ^ that -is- good taste [18:07]
mircea_popescu well ok then. [18:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00025471 = 6.8517 BTC [+] [18:07]
mircea_popescu anyway : the people who never burn anyone elementarily fail at this. [18:08]
mircea_popescu kinda how it only takes a moment;s survey to reealise a field/group/whatever will never amount to anything worth the mention. [18:09]
mircea_popescu ascii_field hey, we discussed last year this guy that was really butthurt about some professor stealing his invention ? up in canada ? something to do with mathematica maybe ? [18:16]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:17]
mircea_popescu heh. [18:17]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [18:17]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [18:17]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:17]
ascii_field!topic/sci.math/t7Szo6EFZvc << this ? [18:18]
assbot Google Discussiegroepen ... ( ) [18:18]
ascii_field wolfram is a u.s.-based fella though [18:18]
ascii_field !s wolfram [18:19]
assbot 43 results for 'wolfram' : [18:19]
mircea_popescu aha [18:19]
ascii_field he later backed down, paper was printed, there were no lawsuits, iirc. [18:19]
mircea_popescu that, but im not linking google groups. [18:19]
ascii_field but much anger to this day. [18:19]
ascii_field [18:19]
assbot Stephen Wolfram, A New Kind of Science ... ( ) [18:19]
ascii_field ^ canonical [18:19]
ascii_field particularly, [18:20]
ascii_field 'The real problem with this result, however, is that it is not Wolfram's. He didn't invent cyclic tag systems, and he didn't come up with the incredibly intricate construction needed to implement them in Rule 110. This was done rather by one Matthew Cook, while working in Wolfram's employ under a contract with some truly remarkable provisions about intellectual property. In short, Wolfram got to control not only when and [18:20]
ascii_field how the result was made public, but to claim it for himself. In fact, his position was that the existence of the result was a trade secret. ...' [18:20]
ascii_field 'Wolfram, for his part, responded by suing or threatening to sue Cook (now a penniless graduate student in neuroscience), the conference organizers, the publishers of the proceedings, etc. ' [18:21]
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mircea_popescu heh [18:22]
ascii_field wolfram is sui generis. owns a tame publisher, for instance [18:22]
ascii_field that prints his 'great insights' and those of his user base [18:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6241 @ 0.00025471 = 1.5896 BTC [+] [18:23]
mircea_popescu that really is not hard to do. [18:23]
mircea_popescu pod and so on [18:23]
ascii_field to my great shame, i pumped thousands and thousands of usd into wolfram's pockets. [18:23]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: it isn't an on-demand print, either [18:24]
ascii_field 'top shelf' lithography and typography [18:24]
ascii_field the man is a crank who grew up as 'next big physics mind' who ended up coming to nothing. but turned out that he was good at harnessing other folks to pull his imperial cart. [18:25]
mircea_popescu also not THAT expensive these days [18:25]
ascii_field so he ended up as a mad king of a small kingdom of sorts [18:25]
mircea_popescu lots of these, it turns out. [18:25]
ascii_field 'mathematica' has competitors in the exactly same sense that mpex does. [18:25]
ascii_field to this day. [18:26]
mircea_popescu apparently everyone who's not proud to work for corporate america a la buffett is busy trying to carve a small kingdom of flies type of arrangement [18:26]
mircea_popescu from the idiots trying to get "real estate developments" on arid hills in south america [18:26]
ascii_field buffett has kingdom. well, had. it was conquered meanwhile [18:26]
ascii_field as i understand [18:26]
mircea_popescu to derps making "submarines" because hey, can't just admit bitcoin has it and humbly join. [18:26]
* ascii_field has not yet read all of the man's writings [18:26]
ascii_field anyway, i happen to know more than a reasonable man ought to, about wolframism [18:27]
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ascii_field what he did was, essentially, steal a usg mega-product - macsyma, the first really universal computer algebra system, thousands of man-years of [18:27]
ascii_field a certain lisp [18:27]
ascii_field and hired some folks to cough up a gui for it [18:28]
ascii_field and marketed [18:28]
ascii_field he also had it delisped [18:28]
ascii_field so that 'serial number is filed off', so to speak [18:28]
ascii_field and would not be bound by the (iirc murky) legal status of the stolen original [18:28]
ascii_field (gpl did not yet exist, and ianal, but the story is complicated - it -was- taxpayer-funded research) [18:29]
ascii_field << some detail of what [18:29]
assbot Why Wolfram (Mathematica) did not use Lisp | The (λ) Lambda meme - all things Lisp ... ( ) [18:29]
ascii_field << l0l! apparently he's still sc4mz0r1ng folks [18:30]
assbot Subscription Center | ... ( ) [18:30]
ascii_field ... or being sc4mz0r3d himself [18:31]
* ascii_field wasn't there, didn't see [18:31]
ascii_field << won. [18:33]
assbot Subscription Center | ... ( ) [18:33]
ascii_field that was quick. [18:33]
ascii_field 'My real concern, of course, was not that he was using optimized data structures so much as that he seemed on target to reintroduce numerical error back into a world that we had worked hard to make 'exact' (Macsyma used bignums from Lisp) or at least 'arbitrarily exact' (Macsyma had a derived type called 'bigfloat' that was internally a pair bignums, acting more or less as a ratio but with lots of other hidden bits to [18:36]
ascii_field assure that any decimalization had enough bits to be precise to a given number of digits). Stephen's aim seemed to be to sacrifice correctness for speed. He seemed clear on that the error was not a problem for him...' [18:36]
ascii_field ^ he 'wriggleys gummed' the thing, too. [18:36]
ascii_field (modern mathematica is, grudgingly, bignummy.) [18:36]
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Pierre_Rochard !up ascii_field [18:51]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25568 @ 0.00027439 = 7.0156 BTC [+] {2} [18:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00026632 = 7.9896 BTC [-] [19:05]
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mats Schwab FFS "password must contain at least one letter and no symbols Have one or more numbers between first and last character Password must be between 6 and 8 characters in length" [19:12]
mats really? i could attack that on a laptop from 2005. [19:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 204264 @ 0.00025593 = 52.2773 BTC [-] {5} [19:15]
mats scratch that... 1995. [19:16]
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mircea_popescu ben_vulpes << dude is that yours ? [19:30]
assbot Logged on 02-04-2014 16:43:00; benkay: bounce: the only solution is to be the competent management you wish to see in the world :) [19:30]
ben_vulpes yeah why? [19:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17685 @ 0.00025044 = 4.429 BTC [-] [19:36]
mike_c yeah? you claiming to be gandhi now :) [19:37]
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mircea_popescu re earlier discussion with funks and alf. [19:45]
assbot On owning things on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [19:45]
mircea_popescu mike_c ben_vulpes i seriously thought i had come up with it, then searched for it, found vulpes [19:46]
mircea_popescu was o.O check me out! [19:46]
mircea_popescu no wonder the ancients didn't have "intellectual property". too cultivated to imagine it's workable. [19:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65150 @ 0.00025031 = 16.3077 BTC [-] [19:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17147 @ 0.00024736 = 4.2415 BTC [-] [20:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48161 @ 0.00024736 = 11.9131 BTC [-] [20:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86900 @ 0.0002686 = 23.3413 BTC [+] {3} [20:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17685 @ 0.00026031 = 4.6036 BTC [-] [20:59]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 161 @ 0.01 = 1.61 BTC [-] {3} [21:00]
BingoBoingo [21:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43200 @ 0.00025089 = 10.8384 BTC [-] {2} [21:01]
assbot Obama Initiative Promotes Linkrot | ... ( ) [21:01]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu et al: [21:26]
BingoBoingo Beautiful [21:27]
asciilifeform in other news, #glibc is one of the quietest channels one could imagine short of an entirely dead one. [21:29]
asciilifeform in past 24 hrs, only some spew from a diffbot, and a query from a n00b re: 'ghost' vuln. [21:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77800 @ 0.00025562 = 19.8872 BTC [+] {2} [21:32]
* kushed is now known as kushed_AFK [21:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00024942 = 13.1694 BTC [-] {2} [21:35]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: 'archive' link in newest qntra post appears to be dead. [21:39]
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BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Fixed, was missing the f in pdf [21:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151922 @ 0.00027672 = 42.0399 BTC [+] {4} [21:42]
mats TIL AMD now contracts out their fabs [21:48]
asciilifeform mats: -all- of'em ? [21:49]
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* assbot gives voice to decimation [21:51]
mats i believe so. [21:52]
assbot AMD Goes Fabless - March 8, 2012 - ... ( ) [21:52]
asciilifeform takehome message appears to be 'buy your last x86 cpu while you can.' [21:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64335 @ 0.0002472 = 15.9036 BTC [-] {2} [21:55]
BingoBoingo I'm looking for Investment advice. Any thoughts on Mayweather vs. Pacquiao? [21:58]
decimation asciilifeform: have you ever tried 'picolisp'? [21:59]
asciilifeform decimation: aha [22:00]
asciilifeform decimation: i found that it is only any good as a 'textbook example' [22:00]
asciilifeform 'throwback' lisp similar to elisp [22:00]
asciilifeform i.e. having dynamics scope [22:00]
asciilifeform which brings the infamous 'funarg problem' back from the dead [22:00]
decimation the guy claims to have built a small hardware processor that 'runs' picolisp [22:00]
asciilifeform *dynamic [22:00]
asciilifeform decimation: this is not hard [22:00]
decimation no, it sounds like a very simple mechanism [22:01]
asciilifeform see also 'scheme-79' [22:01]
asciilifeform - or my article on the subject, [22:01]
assbot DSpace@MIT: [22:01]
assbot Loper OS » Shards of Lost Technology, and the Need for High-Level Architectures. ... ( ) [22:01]
decimation ah so the 'funarg problem' appears when you only use a stack [22:01]
asciilifeform but in general 'simple lisps' are not hard to implement [22:02]
asciilifeform there are approximately as many of them as there are folks with comp sci. degrees. [22:02]
asciilifeform what is difficult is to implement one that is worth -using- [22:02]
asciilifeform esp. since the 'jewel of simplicity' aspect tends to dissipate very, very quickly in unskilled hands trying to implement a modicum of actual optimization [22:03]
decimation yeah for example I have been trying to 'optimize' a std::vector> turd [22:04]
decimation in C++ [22:04]
asciilifeform ew [22:04]
decimation C++ does 'just work' but if you want to use the standard functions in any way other than designed it becomes a massive hairball [22:04]
decimation because you are immediately faced with re-writing the whole thing from scratch [22:05]
decimation kinda like bitcoin & boost libraries [22:05]
asciilifeform even the standard aspects have questionable solidity of specification. [22:05]
asciilifeform (not even speaking of cross-platform portability, but the fact of any two compilers on same platform eating up the same input and producing comparable, valid output) [22:05]
decimation from what I gather from naggum, stroustrup basically spent most of his time marketing C++ [22:06]
decimation and his marketing consisted of 'yeah we can include your crazy shit in the language' [22:06]
asciilifeform like PL/I before. [22:06]
asciilifeform but there can be no great charlatan without the great - in its own way - gaggle of imbecilic chumps to go with him. [22:07]
decimation it seems that any sane implementer carefully sticks to a subset of the language - or a particular compiler/library [22:07]
asciilifeform aha. [22:07]
asciilifeform just as no one actually 'programs in c.' [22:07]
decimation right [22:07]
asciilifeform (it is quite impossible to do, outside of a classroom) [22:07]
asciilifeform this is -one- of the reasons why ada (and to a slightly-lesser extent - common lisp) is interesting [22:08]
asciilifeform one can -actually program in the specified language- [22:08]
asciilifeform and no deviation from the spec is tolerated. [22:08]
decimation well, it appears to come with a very well specified standard library [22:08]
decimation actually I kinda wonder why ada hasn't gotten more traction, given that it is far more 'portable' than C is [22:09]
asciilifeform because it declares war on microshit and unix, 'a pox on both their houses' [22:10]
* BingoBoingo debates whether to seed Mayweather/Pacquiao on BitBet [22:10]
* asciilifeform has never heard of either until now [22:11]
decimation asciilifeform: that's a good point. in many ways, controlling the 'standard library' on a platform is way more important than the kernel [22:11]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i can't help but wonder - who is playing the sport bets other than BingoBoingo ? somebody must be... [22:11]
decimation after all, when Linus promises not to 'break userland', he's promising to be a good slave [22:12]
BingoBoingo * asciilifeform has never heard of either until now << Both fighters 5 years past their prime. One Black, one Island folk. Both old enough hard to see this happening without a loss of life. [22:12]
asciilifeform decimation: if he 'broke' it, he will simply be left holding the short end of a fork [22:12]
asciilifeform trademark or not. [22:12]
asciilifeform orhpanned chain, if you will. [22:12]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I'm not comtemplating betting, but marketmaking insurance [22:12]
decimation [22:14]
assbot Fax Toy - Random Stuff You Fax To Us ... ( ) [22:14]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Seems the predominant name for this match is "Debate 5 years too late" [22:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58900 @ 0.00026885 = 15.8353 BTC [+] [22:18]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: You got any thoughts on the fight? [22:21]
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BingoBoingo !up stunna [22:24]
* assbot gives voice to stunna [22:24]
BingoBoingo stunna: You ever do any prop betting? [22:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72100 @ 0.00024678 = 17.7928 BTC [-] {2} [22:25]
stunna BingoBoingo: With friends for fun sure but nothing too serious [22:25]
stunna BingoBoingo: I agreed to some guy's terms a year ago for the warren buffet bet thing and he pulled out, I got lucky he got cold feet [22:26]
stunna BingoBoingo: Would have been out quite a few coins [22:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nice. [22:26]
BingoBoingo stunna: Ah. I'm debating whether to throw down to 2BTC necessary to open up the Mayweather Pacquiao thing on BitBet, leaning towards dumping my stake on the Azn even though Vegas is against him. [22:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: when weighing the lot, i discovered, to a bit of surprise, that there is ~50g of variance between the individual units. [22:27]
mircea_popescu prolly power units [22:27]
asciilifeform the infamous tea kettles inevitably came to mind [22:27]
stunna BingoBoingo: It's really all the same EV + fees, would make the fight more exciting to watch though if you put money down [22:27]
asciilifeform but yes, probably a fairly boring chinese variation in this or that. [22:28]
stunna BingoBoingo: tickets to get into that fight are ridiculously expensive, $5-6,000 for the worst possible seat all the way in the back [22:28]
BingoBoingo stunna: Well, Bitbet would be lower fee than a sportsbook (1%), just wondering if other money would come in to correct the odds. [22:28]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo marywether still boxes ?! [22:30]
stunna BingoBoingo: I know extremely little about sports betting, but there's probably enough people betting on there to keep the odds at whatever the official payouts are [22:30]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Yeah. Him and Pacquiao have just been doing old people set up fights these past few years, because boxing is uncompetitive as hell [22:31]
mircea_popescu it cant be competitive. [22:31]
mircea_popescu that worked with a LE of 35. [22:31]
* BingoBoingo going to see how baseball/hockey do tonight and maybe submit the funded bet [22:32]
mircea_popescu what odds do you see on it ? [22:32]
BingoBoingo [22:33]
assbot Cause for concern? Mayweather and Pacquiao camps trade barbs over tickets, rooms, contract - Yahoo Sports ... ( ) [22:33]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I'm seeing decimal odds pay 2.69 x stake for betting on Pacquiao [22:33]
mircea_popescu i thought you wanted the other one ? [22:34]
BingoBoingo But the fight isn't until May 2nd (3rd in GMT land) [22:34]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: << CoinBase's outgoing mailserver, localbitcoins members list [22:37]
assbot Coinbase Outgoing Email Hacked | ... ( ) [22:37]
mircea_popescu is it ? [22:37]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: It's what it appears to be. [22:38]
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mircea_popescu anyway, bitbet sports are iffy - the one time i put money on an obscure event i recall it being covered reasonably, like 9 to 1 or somesuch [22:38]
mircea_popescu but you never know [22:38]
BingoBoingo I'm going to think about it. There's still time [22:39]
BingoBoingo World cup managed to get bets, but seemed to have a broader appeal [22:41]
* DreadKnight has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:41]
BingoBoingo Next Saturday seems to be the time to pull the trigger on the bet [22:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00025278 = 3.4125 BTC [+] [22:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56300 @ 0.00024498 = 13.7924 BTC [-] {2} [22:59]
* BingoBoingo will probably make the decision Saturday on whether or not to stake the Bitcoin of 688 people on The last great boxing match ever. [23:00]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: [23:09]
assbot On owning things on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [23:09]
mats 688? [23:10]
* assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo [23:10]
mircea_popescu ;;google 688 attack sub ms-dos [23:10]
gribble 688 Attack Sub | Old MS-DOS Games | Download for Free or play in ...: ; 688 Attack Sub (DOS) - Game Play - YouTube: ; 688 Attack Sub - Sega Retro: [23:10]
mircea_popescu shit i loved that game. [23:10]
mats oic [23:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32587 @ 0.0002517 = 8.2021 BTC [+] [23:23]
mats exercise for the bored: spot the bug [23:29]
assbot xchat/dcc.c at master · linuxmint/xchat · GitHub ... ( ) [23:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37517 @ 0.0002517 = 9.443 BTC [+] [23:41]
mats relevant: [23:46]
assbot DEFCON 17: More Tricks For Defeating SSL - YouTube ... ( ) [23:46]
mats "just looking at the shape of this code, you know there's got to be a bug in here somewhere" [23:47]
BingoBoingo mats: DCC is perfect occasion for fixing code with delete key [23:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23900 @ 0.00025278 = 6.0414 BTC [+] [23:50]
mats i remember the days when you could pwn entire channels with dcc bugs [23:51]
decimation re: TeX discussion < at least TeX is vastly superior to microsoft word, especially when it comes to collaboration on revision [23:51]
mats BitchX used to go down with %s%s%s%s [23:54]
* BingoBoingo made his weirdix weirdcoind with the delete key and .h substitutions [23:54]
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