Forum logs for 08 Jul 2013

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[05:27]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading, I heard.	[05:27]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Tue May 14 16:38:49 2013	[05:27]
thestringpuller	you came to the wrong channel mircea_popescu shakes fists	[05:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.042 BTC [+]	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	hallo	[05:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.042 = 0.294 BTC [+]	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	wait, wut ?!	[05:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 280 @ 0.040108 = 11.2302 BTC [-]	[05:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 100 @ 0.04010706 = 4.0107 BTC [-]	[05:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 682 @ 0.04010605 = 27.3523 BTC [-]	[05:32]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[05:32]
gribble	MtGox BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 77.89500, Best ask: 77.99900, Bid-ask spread: 0.10400, Last trade: 78.00000, 24 hour volume: 42274.79996801, 24 hour low: 66.60001, 24 hour high: 78.68600, 24 hour vwap: 72.50183	[05:32]
ThickAsThieves	heyo	[05:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.9499978 BTC [+]	[05:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.9499988 = 1.9 BTC [+]	[05:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 19 @ 0.95 = 18.05 BTC [+]	[05:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 23 @ 0.95 = 21.85 BTC [+]	[05:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.31002215 BTC [-]	[05:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.0415 = 0.2075 BTC [-]	[05:35]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.31002215 BTC [-]	[05:35]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 10 @ 0.009905 = 0.0991 BTC [-]	[05:36]
*	publio (~publio@c-71-205-206-190.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 50 @ 0.0022 = 0.11 BTC [-]	[05:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.18897 BTC [+]	[05:37]
*	Chilca has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[05:38]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 140 @ 0.042 = 5.88 BTC [+]	[05:39]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 20 @ 0.018399 = 0.368 BTC [+]	[05:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 16 @ 0.0184 = 0.2944 BTC [+]	[05:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 3 @ 0.018499 = 0.0555 BTC [+]	[05:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 39 @ 0.004699 = 0.1833 BTC [+]	[05:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 76 @ 0.0047 = 0.3572 BTC [+]	[05:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 280 @ 0.00477 = 1.3356 BTC [+]	[05:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 33 @ 0.0049 = 0.1617 BTC [+]	[05:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 87 @ 0.048994 = 4.2625 BTC [-]	[05:58]
*	Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-91-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:01]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 31 @ 0.042 = 1.302 BTC [+]	[06:02]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.002299 = 0.2299 BTC [+]	[06:04]
*	malaimo (~malaimo@unaffiliated/malaimo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:04]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 202 @ 0.0023 = 0.4646 BTC [+]	[06:07]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 100 @ 0.004455 = 0.4455 BTC [-]	[06:07]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 200 @ 0.004454 = 0.8908 BTC [-]	[06:07]
assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 3 @ 0.04975 = 0.1493 BTC [+]	[06:11]
*	Namworld has quit ()	[06:11]
*	TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)	[06:12]
*	[7] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:13]
benkay_	;;ticker	[06:15]
gribble	MtGox BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 78.00501, Best ask: 78.49555, Bid-ask spread: 0.49054, Last trade: 78.49555, 24 hour volume: 44182.75657201, 24 hour low: 66.62000, 24 hour high: 78.83000, 24 hour vwap: 72.98185	[06:15]
*	Vbs has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[06:15]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[15:23]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading, I heard.	[15:23]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Tue May 14 16:38:49 2013	[15:23]
CheckDavid	lol	[15:23]
CheckDavid	D	[15:23]
CheckDavid	xD	[15:24]
matthew_boyd	He was referring to where a lot of trolling happens	[15:24]
matthew_boyd	o/ mircea_popescu!	[15:24]
CheckDavid	jurov, i was confused about this https://btct.co/security/TAT.VIRTUALMINE	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	heya	[15:24]
jurov	yes. and mpoe-pr is explaining it there in all seriousness	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	what we talkin' about ?	[15:24]
CheckDavid	That's apparently a bond that doens't pay principal?	[15:24]
*	leotreasure (~leotreasu@115.187.234.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:24]
jurov	about mpoe. virtualmine has nothing to do with mpoe	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	afaik tat.vm is an attempt by ThickAsThieves to implement the old brendio idea,	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	wherein you could make symmetrical assets which allow you to play the mining futures market	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	deprived has a variant too	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	somehow people have come to believe homebrew is a better solution than the actual solution for some reason.	[15:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.042348 BTC [+]	[15:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.042349 BTC [+]	[15:28]
*	deltanine has quit (Quit: deltanine)	[15:28]
Namworld	And this is a bond that does: https://btct.co/security/BTC-BOND	[15:31]
*	Vbs (~Vbs@unaffiliated/vbs) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:35]
CheckDavid	does what?	[15:36]
*	hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[15:36]
Namworld	that pays the principal back	[15:37]
CheckDavid	I thought it was standard on bonds	[15:38]
Namworld	Yeah, but there's what people call "hashing bonds"	[15:38]
Namworld	Which pays X mhash/s	[15:38]
Namworld	where getting principal back is not guaranteed.	[15:38]
Namworld	It all depends on mining difficulty.	[15:39]
CheckDavid	Why not stocks instead?	[15:39]
Namworld	Usually, you never get the principal back.	[15:39]
Namworld	Well, no clue	[15:39]
CheckDavid	Would stocks be fit for the same purpose?	[15:39]
*	hnz (~hnz@koln-5d810266.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:40]
*	rulother-tab (~rulother-@c-71-59-16-33.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:40]
CheckDavid	after all, what they pay is more similar to dividends than interest, no?	[15:40]
Namworld	There's plenty of mining stocks.	[15:40]
Namworld	Usually the dividends go up and down according to the mining operation's total hashing.	[15:40]
Namworld	Also it usually comes with rights to the equipment	[15:40]
CheckDavid	don't they go up and down on hashing bonds as well?	[15:41]
Namworld	While a hashing bond is just that, a fixed X mhash/s payment at fixed intervals	[15:41]
Namworld	No, doesn't go up and down.	[15:41]
CheckDavid	what is a mhash/s payment?	[15:41]
CheckDavid	is that processing power?	[15:41]
mjr_	its a synthetic processing power	[15:41]
Namworld	It's a hashing speed. The bond basically pays the expected proceeds of X mhash/s of mining over the payment period.	[15:42]
Namworld	For example	[15:43]
Namworld	Currently 1 mhash/s is estimated to get 0.000165 BTC weekly at current difficulty.	[15:43]
Namworld	This is what it would pay.	[15:43]
mjr_	I really like your bond Namworld	[15:43]
Namworld	If difficulty changes, so does the payment. But it's always fixed at 1 mhash/s	[15:44]
mjr_	daily pay out	[15:44]
mjr_	fixed rate	[15:44]
Namworld	It's not very high interest tho	[15:44]
mjr_	11% a year is fine i think	[15:44]
Namworld	and redeem on demand of course	[15:44]
mjr_	exactly	[15:44]
mjr_	AND you have collateral i believe	[15:44]
mjr_	back in the day i think it was 2X	[15:45]
mjr_	but not sure, its been a while	[15:45]
*	terryww (~terryww@109.127.239.35) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:45]
Namworld	Yes, it was.	[15:45]
mjr_	its also nice though, since you have redeem on demand, you don't really have to, as you can just sell and everyone knows what its worth	[15:45]
mjr_	I have a new theory by the way, on what has been going on with prices	[15:45]
mjr_	which does not lay the blame at the feet of asics	[15:46]
Namworld	Dividend was 0.5% weekly instead too. 26.07% per year.	[15:46]
Namworld	and collateral	[15:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 10 @ 0.048994 = 0.4899 BTC [-]	[15:46]
mjr_	can anyone explain to me how people thought asics lowered the price of btc?	[15:46]
Namworld	Those have gone out the window tho. It's 0.03% per day (0.21% per week)	[15:47]
Namworld	now	[15:47]
mjr_	yeah, i had it when it was .03% a day	[15:47]
Namworld	and I think the collateral requirement is gone	[15:47]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 31 @ 0.01925 = 0.5968 BTC [-]	[15:47]
pankkake	because they are stupid. and they like to blame something, usually people who have what they don't have	[15:47]
Namworld	But I have 4x the debt in collateral/funds/stocks/etc	[15:47]
mjr_	i mean, do they attempt to use logic at all?	[15:47]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 4 @ 0.0195 = 0.078 BTC [+]	[15:48]
Namworld	Anyway	[15:48]
mjr_	Namworld: do you hold s.dice? curious	[15:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 21 @ 0.048994 = 1.0289 BTC [-]	[15:48]
Namworld	I do hold some. But I manage the S.DICE passthrough =/	[15:48]
mjr_	anyway, my theory is that bitpay, coinbase, and other payment processors are the ones lowering the price	[15:48]
CheckDavid	thanks Namworld	[15:48]
Namworld	and other MPEx passthrough	[15:48]
*	asswatch (~asswatch@c-76-102-197-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:48]
mjr_	not in a sinister way	[15:49]
mjr_	they are just sellers who always do market sells	[15:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 2 @ 0.0195 = 0.039 BTC [+]	[15:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 2 @ 0.009911 = 0.0198 BTC [-]	[15:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 102 @ 0.00991 = 1.0108 BTC [-]	[15:49]
mjr_	so the more people start "accepting" bitcoin	[15:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 170 @ 0.009905 = 1.6839 BTC [-]	[15:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 226 @ 0.009902 = 2.2379 BTC [-]	[15:49]
mjr_	the stronger the downward pressure	[15:49]
Namworld	Hey hey hey... I pay 0.01 each on those bonds	[15:49]
Namworld	Stop market selling =/	[15:50]
pankkake	yes, I think that bitpay's way of selling all the time is pushing the price down	[15:50]
mjr_	yep	[15:50]
mjr_	they should take their role, as a central flow of bitcoin and use it to stabilize	[15:50]
mjr_	i mean, it would be in their interest to do so	[15:50]
mjr_	they could market mke	[15:50]
mjr_	very easily	[15:50]
mjr_	instead of just dumping	[15:51]
mjr_	that would partially lend itself to a hedging strategy, which would require either futures or options...	[15:51]
pankkake	keep in mind bitcoin has like 8% inflation now - there is no reason to expect the price to rise all the time	[15:51]
mjr_	of course	[15:51]
mjr_	but i think as buyers leave exchanges	[15:51]
mjr_	at least retail (omg, what is this bitcoin stuff, i wanna buy)	[15:51]
mjr_	and the exchanges are dominated by large dumpers	[15:52]
mjr_	of course price drops	[15:52]
Namworld	To whoever is selling BTC-BOND under 0.01... just mail me to redeem	[15:55]
mjr_	which is why large institutions should be using futures	[15:55]
Namworld	Will be processed immediately	[15:55]
ThickAsThieves	part of the ASIC kills the price theory goes like this	[15:58]
ThickAsThieves	the BTC used to buy ASICs is not coming from new fiat,	[15:58]
Namworld	I know the concept of getting paid when requesting someone's debt to you to be paid might sound... foreign to Bitcoiners. But just request and see.	[15:58]
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ThickAsThieves	much BTC is spent buying from ASIC company	[15:58]
mjr_	lol	[15:58]
ThickAsThieves	ASIC company unloads BTC to buy new ASICs and new tech	[15:58]
ThickAsThieves	and to expand	[15:58]
ThickAsThieves	people buy stock in ASICMINER,	[15:59]
mjr_	yeah, you could say that they are a dumper as well	[15:59]
ThickAsThieves	and now ASICMINER holds a large chunk of stored value	[15:59]
ThickAsThieves	but weekly	[15:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.0437 = 0.0874 BTC [+]	[15:59]
ThickAsThieves	large AM holders,	[15:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 14 @ 0.0439 = 0.6146 BTC [+]	[15:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 19 @ 0.0439 = 0.8341 BTC [+]	[15:59]
mjr_	the way i try to look at it, is "is this company a net buyer or a net seller? if so, do they hold coins, or get rid of them immediately"	[15:59]
ThickAsThieves	cash out some as a salary	[15:59]
ThickAsThieves	i think it all boilds down to	[15:59]
ThickAsThieves	less fiat coming in than going out	[15:59]
mjr_	true...you can look it at it that way	[16:00]
mjr_	but for example	[16:00]
ThickAsThieves	hence why i always say to everyone that the best thing for bitcoin, on every level,	[16:00]
ThickAsThieves	is new blod	[16:00]
ThickAsThieves	blood*	[16:00]
mjr_	silk road (pretend they are taking the money) is a net buyer of bitcoins	[16:00]
mjr_	ie. they keep getting more and more bitcoins	[16:00]
ThickAsThieves	the joke being that what good is a ponzi without new bagholders?	[16:00]
mjr_	cuz they drive demand	[16:00]
Namworld	TaT, I thought the ASIC kills price theory went like this: 1. ASICs! 2. TONS more hashing! 3. TONS more Bitcoins produced! 4. TONS of price dropdown! 5. I was smart to buy at 250. It's all those mean ASIC companies which dropped the price.	[16:00]
mjr_	coinbase is probably a buyer as well	[16:01]
mjr_	they need coins	[16:01]
mjr_	lol	[16:01]
ThickAsThieves	Namworld, that's the idiot's version, yes	[16:01]
mjr_	i always wonder why they think more coins will be produced	[16:01]
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mjr_	TBH there is a slightly increased inflationary effect	[16:01]
mjr_	in that it takes slightly less than 10 minutes	[16:01]
Namworld	Because they don't understand Bitcoin. Cause Bitcoin works in misterious ways.	[16:02]
mjr_		[16:02]
ThickAsThieves	but, yes, the money moving off exchanges is a decent theory,	[16:03]
ThickAsThieves	but i'm skeptical	[16:03]
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ThickAsThieves	i think it's that bitcoin is a fiat-dependent economy	[16:03]
ThickAsThieves	and if the amount coming in, is less than the amount going out, only speculators can keep the price up	[16:04]
mjr_	true	[16:04]
mjr_	it is fiat dependant now	[16:04]
mjr_	hopefully that is short term	[16:04]
mjr_	but no one uses it as a unit of account	[16:04]
ThickAsThieves	it's not short-term	[16:04]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.4 BTC [+]	[16:05]
ThickAsThieves	imo	[16:05]
mjr_	well...	[16:05]
mjr_	it depends	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves you misrepresent thiongs tho.	[16:05]
mjr_	if you could get a complete business cycle to work in bitcoin	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	the FIAT PRICE of bitcoin is dependent on the flow of fiat.	[16:05]
mjr_	not trivial by any means	[16:05]
ThickAsThieves	indeed	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	this has little to do with bitcoin, is just how fiat reflects itself in it.	[16:05]
mjr_	well, my point is that as much as people tout the "acceptance" of bitcoin	[16:06]
mjr_	they are still denominating in US dollars	[16:06]
mjr_	so my purchasing power is dependant on that fiat reflection	[16:06]
ThickAsThieves	not only do you need a totalyy btc business cycle, you need layers of it, and it probably boils down to some root fundamental i'm missingh	[16:06]
mjr_	with the exception of mircea_popescu	[16:06]
mjr_	who has fixed his prices in btc terms	[16:06]
ThickAsThieves	even mp must bow to fiat	[16:06]
mjr_	not really...	[16:06]
mjr_	he has not changed registration cost except upwards and that was not related to fiat to btc rate	[16:07]
ThickAsThieves	oh i meant as an individual	[16:07]
mjr_	ah perhaps true	[16:07]
mjr_	i meant it is cool that someone is being a base	[16:07]
Namworld	Of course. He's depending on BTC -> fiat for food.	[16:08]
mjr_	i mean, if a bar COULD say, one jameson rocks is .05 bitcoin, now and tomorrow and next week	[16:08]
mjr_	and for the foreseable future	[16:08]
ThickAsThieves	they would need their vendors to do the same	[16:08]
mjr_	yes	[16:08]
ThickAsThieves	and their vendors' vendors	[16:08]
mjr_	hence my point about getting a complete business cycle to operate in btc	[16:08]
ThickAsThieves	and the tax man	[16:08]
mjr_	which is not trivial but def possible	[16:08]
mjr_	fuck the tax man lol	[16:08]
mjr_	you know who could do it possibly?	[16:09]
ThickAsThieves	maybe that's the root fundamental factor	[16:09]
ThickAsThieves	the tax man	[16:09]
mjr_	perhaps	[16:09]
mjr_	the person who could do this best is a farmer i think	[16:09]
mjr_	not a corporate farmer	[16:09]
mjr_	but a small "farmers market" farmer	[16:10]
mjr_	who could possibly buy seeds and fertilizer etc in bitcoin	[16:10]
mjr_	and sell his crop for bitcoin	[16:10]
ThickAsThieves	the issue remains though	[16:10]
mjr_	pay taxes?	[16:10]
ThickAsThieves	no that and,	[16:10]
ThickAsThieves	that btc WILL end up as fiat	[16:10]
ThickAsThieves	somewhere in the chain	[16:11]
ThickAsThieves	fertilzer's vendor	[16:11]
ThickAsThieves	electricty company, etc	[16:11]
emptyeddepended	this is somehow inevitable without a closed loop	[16:11]
ThickAsThieves	right	[16:11]
ThickAsThieves	you either need layers and layers to float an economay above the leaks	[16:12]
ThickAsThieves	or a closed loop	[16:12]
Namworld	The tax man should focus on property taxes for the public infrastructure servicing said properties. And luxury tax on various goods. Goods are already taxed differently based on what purpose they serve.	[16:12]
ThickAsThieves	it needs to be more convenient to use your btc as btc than fiat	[16:12]
ThickAsThieves	and you need more reason to turn fiat into btc	[16:12]
mjr_	yes	[16:13]
ThickAsThieves	maybe there should be a btc-alliance, businesses that refuse to accept fiat	[16:13]
emptyeddepended	look at AM. that's the closest thing we have right now, i'd say.. and i was happy to realize that. buy btc, trade stocks in btc, a whole company born through btc and they even sell btc related products for btc -- but if you substract mining (and financial instruments), there is nothing even close to that	[16:14]
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ThickAsThieves	gambling	[16:15]
ThickAsThieves	is closer	[16:15]
emptyeddepended	+	[16:15]
emptyeddepended	forgot that one	[16:15]
ThickAsThieves	gaming could be	[16:15]
*	ChaangNoi (~chaangnoi@183.89.131.155) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:15]
ThickAsThieves	any service company that pays employees in btc is a start	[16:15]
ThickAsThieves	however a refusal to take fiat is also a refusal to convert fiat into btc if you are paying out more btc than fiat as a company	[16:16]
ThickAsThieves	hmm	[16:16]
ThickAsThieves	we need a btc-based government	[16:16]
emptyeddepended	that's a huge step. i see another beneficial aspect of bitcoin, but yet there aren't enough merchants. i live in europe and a wire transfer to china to purchase goods is very delayed and expensive. bitcoin could do that in ease..	[16:16]
emptyeddepended	xD	[16:16]
emptyeddepended	a international business network would be nice	[16:17]
emptyeddepended	i know there is bitmit	[16:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 1 @ 0.030309 BTC [+]	[16:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 30 @ 0.030307 = 0.9092 BTC [-]	[16:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 20 @ 0.030305 = 0.6061 BTC [-]	[16:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 190 @ 0.030303 = 5.7576 BTC [-]	[16:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 153 @ 0.048994 = 7.4961 BTC [-]	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves there is totally btc business cycles. dice corp takes in profits, distributes to shareholders.	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	miners, same thing.	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	it's there.	[16:18]
*	ChaangNoi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	i get that everyone has this personal "o, itams" approach to finance,	[16:19]
*	matthew_boyd is now known as matthew_bold	[16:19]
matthew_bold	emptyeddepended: <- Just for you ;)	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	but if you divide the total money supply to the total goods supply you'll get 85`000 dollar apples.	[16:19]
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mircea_popescu	most of the economy is NOT goods, and most business cycles are not tangible in that snese.	[16:19]
ThickAsThieves	do you disagree that fiat leakage lends to depressing the fiat value of btc?	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	maybe there should be a btc-alliance, businesses that refuse to accept fiat << yeah. there is. everything i do.	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	i disagree that the cost of bitcoin in dollars is relevant for anything but bernanke.	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	it's his problem, let him solve it.	[16:21]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 10 @ 0.18897 = 1.8897 BTC [+]	[16:21]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[16:21]
ThickAsThieves	it may not be relevant to you, but it is relevant to most others	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	"most others" is not an argument.	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	to "most others" whether squirrels are happy is "relevant"	[16:23]
ThickAsThieves	calling something irrelevant to yourself does not make it irrelevant	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	this is however vastly irrelevant. squirrels are squirrels and people only matter inasmuch as they manage to treat that which matters rather than that which they "feel" is "relevant"	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	im not calling it irrelevant to myself.	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	i'm calling it irrelevant period.	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	only way to make it appear relevant is through a leap of faith, aka willing suspension of thought.	[16:24]
ThickAsThieves	but these are people trying to become squirrels	[16:24]
ThickAsThieves	how to live a life of nuts?	[16:24]
mircea_popescu	good for em. lol	[16:24]
Namworld	furries?	[16:24]
mircea_popescu	"nuts fall, everone dies" is there for a reason.	[16:24]
ThickAsThieves	i still can't make the jump to fiat value being irrelevant	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	there is no such thing as "fiat value"	[16:25]
ThickAsThieves	if i want to live the btc life	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	any more than "circle squaredness"	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	the only way the terms make sense is if you're talking about fiat's value (in Bitcoin)	[16:26]
ThickAsThieves	how does the exchange rate not matter?	[16:26]
mircea_popescu	and mixed up the possesive.	[16:26]
mircea_popescu	it does, the other way around.	[16:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 2 @ 0.004799 = 0.0096 BTC [-]	[16:26]
ThickAsThieves	so my concern is for the dollar's value	[16:26]
ThickAsThieves	fine,	[16:26]
mircea_popescu	why are you not in #dollar-assets then ?!	[16:26]
ThickAsThieves	but if i turn all my dollars into btc	[16:26]
ThickAsThieves	then what	[16:26]
ThickAsThieves	exchange rate still affects my wealth	[16:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.427 BTC [+]	[16:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 23 @ 0.004619 = 0.1062 BTC [-]	[16:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004618 BTC [-]	[16:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.00461 BTC [-]	[16:27]
mircea_popescu	if you turn all your dollars into btc ostensibly political process and government behaviour no longer affects your wealth.	[16:27]
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ThickAsThieves	but when i must pay my bills and buy things not available in btc, I then look to the exchange rate	[16:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 50 @ 0.043011 = 2.1506 BTC [-]	[16:28]
CheckDavid	it doesnt? So he has to sell his house as well	[16:28]
ThickAsThieves	you are saying my complaint is, damn the dollar is worth too much today	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves what if you turned all your dollars into land ?	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	would you then not need to pay bills ?	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	generally people keep a little pocket change.	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	i understand that the life of most consists of a daily struggle to produce "A little pocket change".	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	but they make a poor standard, as they're not wealthy or socially needed.	[16:29]
ThickAsThieves	so btc is for the wealthy?	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	you know i said it in 2011	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	and everyone ignored it because welll... they didn't like to hear it.	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	just like i showed the SDRs as the exact equivalent, and people ignored it because well... they never had one so it don't exist.	[16:30]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.0439 = 0.0878 BTC [+]	[16:30]
ThickAsThieves	looking up SDRs.... of course	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	makes you part of the 1%, that.	[16:30]
emptyeddepended	http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2013/07/08/iceland-wants-to-adopt-bitcoin-instead-of-their-own-currency-icelandic-krona-isk/	[16:31]
ThickAsThieves	wiki says "Private parties do not hold or use them."	[16:32]
emptyeddepended	headline is to exaggerated though	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	i have my doubts about random muckracking emptyeddepended	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves yes.	[16:32]
*	rulother-tab has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[16:32]
pankkake	slightly exagerated.	[16:32]
pankkake	what about somalia? ;)	[16:32]
ThickAsThieves	nearly 500b in SDR now	[16:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.429 BTC [+]	[16:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.44 BTC [+]	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	sdrs are for participating states. bitcoin is for participating people. not an exact equivalent, but it does explain well how something can have value and not be exchangeable for groceries	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	for the benefit of people whose income could at most be upset by finding 20 bucks on the sidewalk,	[16:33]
mircea_popescu	and if that'd happen they'd immediately buy groceries.	[16:34]
ThickAsThieves	so you don't see bitcoin as a the populous currency of the future?	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	no. and i even said so!	[16:34]
ThickAsThieves	but an eventual instrument for the wealthy?	[16:34]
ThickAsThieves	i believe yoU!	[16:34]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[16:35]
ThickAsThieves	but it's quite interesting to me that no one else does	[16:35]
ThickAsThieves	subscribe to that vision that is	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	"no one else" ?	[16:35]
ThickAsThieves	well	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	it seems to me you're the only one who doesn't read trilema	[16:35]
ThickAsThieves	most	[16:35]
ThickAsThieves	i read everything posted anew	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	consider that most in light of the effects of me saying "stop buying"	[16:36]
ThickAsThieves	and linked to me	[16:36]
ThickAsThieves	i have not gone backward	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	sure, most "people". bitcoin isn't about headcount.	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	well may be an idea to read back becauyse there's some great stuff in 2012. i'd love to find you the exact one but i gotta jet right now	[16:36]
ThickAsThieves	np	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	however, it's well discussed there , this future of payments in bitcoin topic.	[16:37]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 5 @ 0.019249 = 0.0962 BTC [-]	[16:39]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.4 = 8.8 BTC [-]	[16:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.35 BTC [-]	[16:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 4.322 = 34.576 BTC [-]	[16:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.321 BTC [-]	[16:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.32 BTC [-]	[16:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.301008 BTC [-]	[16:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.3005 = 8.601 BTC [-]	[16:42]
mjr_	yes SDR's are a great example	[16:42]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 50 @ 0.043011 = 2.1506 BTC [-]	[16:44]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.04301 = 0.8602 BTC [-]	[16:44]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 51 @ 0.043002 = 2.1931 BTC [-]	[16:44]
CheckDavid	I have a doubt about assets nomenclature	[16:46]
CheckDavid	S.MPOE-PT <-- For example	[16:47]
CheckDavid	How do you interpret it?	[16:47]
CheckDavid	So PT means pass through?	[16:47]
CheckDavid	Or something like that?	[16:47]
emptyeddepended	yes	[16:48]
Namworld	It means exactly that	[16:48]
CheckDavid	What about the S.MPOE	[16:48]
emptyeddepended	but there is no official name convention	[16:48]
*	peterl (d8634153@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.99.65.83) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:48]
CheckDavid	is there anything to interpret in it's structure?	[16:48]
CheckDavid	considering the dot	[16:48]
CheckDavid	i see	[16:48]
emptyeddepended	well in case of S.DICE it's a short cut for satoshi's dice	[16:49]
mjr_	S in the context of mpex means Security i mean	[16:49]
mjr_	i think	[16:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 7 @ 0.002188 = 0.0153 BTC [-]	[16:49]
mjr_	hence s.mpoe	[16:50]
mjr_	s.bbet	[16:50]
mjr_	s.mg	[16:50]
mjr_	x signifies future	[16:50]
mjr_	hence x.idiff sep	[16:50]
mjr_	o signifies option	[16:50]
mjr_	hence o.usd.c020T	[16:50]
emptyeddepended	thanks for the explanation	[16:50]
mjr_	i think we all went over the symbology last time mp changed it	[16:51]
mjr_	no worries	[16:51]
mjr_	but i guess those are the three asset classes	[16:51]
mjr_	hmmm....i think that the bond has a symbol too, but i can't remember what	[16:51]
mjr_	mpbor or something like that	[16:51]
mjr_	but that is monthly and uses an auction symbol...i forget the details	[16:52]
mjr_	or is accepted to people who send in >100 btc with the last 3 digits set to 8	[16:53]
mjr_	100.00000888	[16:53]
mjr_	i think	[16:53]
mjr_	now i have a question	[16:53]
mjr_	do the prices of the options adjust daily?	[16:54]
mjr_	does the bot, change them, or have they basically been static (what i am assuming)	[16:54]
matthew_bold	spammy spammy ;)	[16:55]
CheckDavid	thanks mjr_	[16:55]
CheckDavid	I will look more into this later	[16:56]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [BFMINES] 4 @ 0.00399 = 0.016 BTC [+]	[16:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.34 BTC [+]	[16:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.321008 BTC [-]	[17:00]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.321 BTC [-]	[17:00]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 7 @ 4.32 = 30.24 BTC [-]	[17:00]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.300168 BTC [-]	[17:00]
ThickAsThieves	option prices are dynamic	[17:01]
mjr_	i am saying, they are adjusted every day?	[17:01]
ThickAsThieves	and open to adjustment like every 10min or so	[17:01]
mjr_	basically, i'll just come out and say it, is time decay built in	[17:01]
ThickAsThieves	dynamic to the vwap	[17:01]
mjr_	because to me it doesn't seem like it is	[17:01]
mjr_	just cuz vwap is the same with 30 days left, i shouldn't pay the same as 1 day left	[17:02]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 30 @ 0.04234899 = 1.2705 BTC [-]	[17:02]
mjr_	vwap being equal	[17:02]
ThickAsThieves	i dont think time decay is built in but its possible his volatility portion of the algo outweights it	[17:02]
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mjr_	lol with vol of 300, i guess it dwarfs everything else	[17:03]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 22 @ 0.042349 = 0.9317 BTC [+]	[17:03]
mjr_	my point is "are bitcoins magic?"	[17:03]
mjr_	if yes, then i should ignore every mathematical model that the financial world has constructed	[17:03]
mjr_	concepts like theta, gamma and delta are irrelevant	[17:04]
mjr_	and options pricing is sorcery	[17:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.04294999 = 0.3865 BTC [+]	[17:04]
mjr_	if they aren't magic	[17:04]
mjr_	then i want to see how they compare against their "muggle" counterparts	[17:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.04294999 = 0.1718 BTC [+]	[17:05]
mjr_	that was an oblique reference to a harry potter fan fiction (LOL) in which harry is curious about the arbitrage possiblity between wizard gold and gold on the spot market in the muggle world	[17:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 19 @ 0.0431 = 0.8189 BTC [+]	[17:06]
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B0g4r7_	add in jewgold and you may have something.	[17:06]
mjr_	hahaha	[17:06]
ThickAsThieves	i think it is neither	[17:06]
ThickAsThieves	it is new	[17:07]
mjr_	well...	[17:07]
mjr_	somewhat	[17:07]
mjr_	if it looks, acts, and sounds like a currency	[17:07]
*	b0n1 (~b01@massmann.mhn.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:07]
mjr_	then i can/should treat it as such	[17:07]
mjr_	an option is an option	[17:07]
mjr_	so i have been applying standard tools to these options	[17:07]
*	rulother (4810d9a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.16.217.169) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:07]
mjr_	and i think i can perhaps offer lower prices	[17:07]
mjr_	but need to test a LOT before i try that	[17:07]
ThickAsThieves	so i think what you are really looking for	[17:08]
ThickAsThieves	is why you might be wrong	[17:08]
ThickAsThieves	or whether*	[17:08]
mjr_	yeah	[17:08]
mjr_	i mean that is my goal, to figure out if there is something here, or not	[17:08]
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mjr_	my calculations over the last year on a daily basis (365 data points) show a historical daily volatiltiy of 120	[17:09]
mjr_	mp chooses not to hedge options, which is perfectly valid	[17:09]
ThickAsThieves	but that seems to be too simple	[17:09]
ThickAsThieves	to average them	[17:09]
*	leotreasure has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[17:09]
mjr_	its not just an average	[17:09]
ThickAsThieves	ok	[17:10]
mjr_	its closer to a standard deviation	[17:10]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.04301 = 0.3011 BTC [-]	[17:10]
mjr_	or a random walk	[17:10]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.043499 = 0.174 BTC [+]	[17:10]
*	GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[17:10]
ThickAsThieves	if you can properly cover your ass, and only intend to offer small amounts in mid-market	[17:11]
ThickAsThieves	i think you're okay	[17:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.019 BTC [-]	[17:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 22 @ 0.2 = 4.4 BTC [+]	[17:11]
mjr_	well, if i come up with a strategy that works, and can mathematically be shown where exactly my risks are	[17:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 20 @ 0.019 = 0.38 BTC [-]	[17:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 65 @ 0.019249 = 1.2512 BTC [+]	[17:11]
mjr_	i would raise money to start market making aggresively	[17:11]
mjr_	perhaps a bond of or something	[17:12]
ThickAsThieves	new issues arise if you become a target though	[17:12]
mjr_	true	[17:12]
ThickAsThieves	like price manipulation	[17:12]
mjr_	i think this is more similar to a Carry Trade, rather than an arbitrage	[17:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 4 @ 0.000989 = 0.004 BTC [-]	[17:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 46 @ 0.043499 = 2.001 BTC [+]	[17:14]
*	leotreasure (~leotreasu@115.187.234.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:14]
mjr_	for example, if i borrow yen to lend out dollars (yen is low yield, dollar is higher) that is a classic example	[17:14]
ThickAsThieves	seems mor elike gambling to me	[17:15]
mjr_	eh, its really just abstracting the currency and focusing on the market	[17:15]
ThickAsThieves	there's no interest to carry here	[17:15]
mjr_	i can get cheap here, and i can lend for more there	[17:15]
mjr_	there is some interest going on	[17:15]
mjr_	but yes, i use 0 as my interest and dividend	[17:15]
ThickAsThieves	the premium is, i guess	[17:16]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 27 @ 0.048994 = 1.3228 BTC [-]	[17:16]
mjr_	i was saying similar to, not the same	[17:16]
mjr_	anyways, financial engineering should allow me to abstract away whatever risks i don't want, and focus on the risks i do want, and then collect on those risks	[17:16]
*	GordonG3kko (~GordonG3k@gateway/tor-sasl/gordong3kko) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:16]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 35 @ 0.043011 = 1.5054 BTC [-]	[17:16]
ThickAsThieves	so you'll create an inverse deal on the other end?	[17:17]
mjr_	yes, perhaps not on mpex	[17:17]
ThickAsThieves	ah	[17:17]
mjr_	i could have a private deal in place	[17:17]
mjr_	to hedge my option writing	[17:17]
mjr_	for example, let's say i tell my friend i will buy 1000 coins from him at 75 dollars at the end of august	[17:17]
mjr_	in other words, i am long the future	[17:18]
ThickAsThieves	but you need both ends to be dynamic right?	[17:18]
mjr_	yes, you have to map out where you are covered and more importantly where you aren't	[17:18]
ThickAsThieves	no guarantee of selling all your Puts	[17:18]
mjr_	that is the problem	[17:18]
mjr_	however, you can make some educated guesses	[17:18]
mjr_	1. Options volume used to be higher	[17:19]
mjr_	2. Price went up and options volume dropped	[17:19]
ThickAsThieves	you could always base it on the bot's buy price	[17:19]
mjr_	3. I know this obvious but higher prices mean less deman	[17:19]
ThickAsThieves	as worst case	[17:19]
ThickAsThieves	assuming you have some confidence in the bots pricing	[17:19]
mjr_	so hopefully, if it were possible to hedge better, one should be able to offer better prices	[17:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.043899 = 0.0878 BTC [+]	[17:20]
mjr_	i mean, i think the only reason (per trilema) that mp hasn't moved it, is due to the fact no one has jumped into the middle	[17:20]
ThickAsThieves	you think?	[17:20]
ThickAsThieves	i think that reason is just an extension of one of two possible real reasons	[17:21]
ThickAsThieves	first being that MP simply hates being"wrong"	[17:21]
ThickAsThieves	even to himself	[17:21]
ThickAsThieves	he didnt wanna change the algo when he was losing money	[17:21]
mjr_	well...wrong needs to be defined in this context	[17:21]
ThickAsThieves	and then he did	[17:21]
ThickAsThieves	and can't make money	[17:21]
mjr_	his stock is at an all time high right now if i remember correctly	[17:22]
ThickAsThieves	the second reason, which begs more thought,	[17:22]
mjr_	and he did pay divs	[17:22]
mjr_	but i agree	[17:22]
ThickAsThieves	is maybe his own analysis says that lower prices are too risky	[17:22]
ThickAsThieves	and why	[17:22]
mjr_	but i agree with the second point	[17:22]
mjr_	if you aren't hedged	[17:22]
mjr_	which:	[17:22]
ThickAsThieves	so if more backing bonds were purchased, might he lower prices?	[17:23]
ThickAsThieves	or is he simply too worried about flash crashes and such	[17:23]
mjr_	You can't pull yourself up by your breeches and for the very same reason you can't have everybody in the market hedge. Someone needs to provide the support everyone else relies on to hedge. I'm that someone	[17:23]
mjr_	so he has decided to be that someone	[17:23]
mjr_	and that is great, and actually a public service	[17:24]
mjr_	but i have no compunction about hedging	[17:24]
ThickAsThieves	the price of public service sure has gone up!	[17:24]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[17:24]
mjr_	lol	[17:24]
mjr_	well, if you ask anyone, "what is the riskiest thing you can do in finance?" i think they would say write options without a hedge	[17:25]
mjr_	if you told them that the vol was over 100, they would consider it suicidal (probably)	[17:25]
mjr_	but he has a good model in place to avoid insolvency, but not to avoid loss	[17:25]
*	ChaangNoi (~chaangnoi@183.89.131.155) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.043899 = 0.4829 BTC [+]	[17:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.043899 = 0.4829 BTC [+]	[17:26]
mjr_	and i don't claim to know better than him, by any means, i haven't written a lot of options and he has	[17:26]
ThickAsThieves	didn't smickles used to play midmarket?	[17:26]
mjr_	and at the end of the day, what matters is where you put your money	[17:26]
mjr_	i think he did	[17:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 40 @ 0.001999 = 0.08 BTC [+]	[17:27]
mjr_	i miss smickles	[17:27]
mjr_	i talked to Bugpowder yesterday	[17:27]
mjr_	i think he had some stuff going on too	[17:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 13 @ 0.001935 = 0.0252 BTC [+]	[17:27]
ThickAsThieves	seems odd to disappear without a trace	[17:27]
ThickAsThieves	yet leave IRC logging on perpetually	[17:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 9 @ 0.002399 = 0.0216 BTC [+]	[17:29]
*	daybyter (~andreas@88-134-94-10-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:29]
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ThickAsThieves	how does an index stock handle value when new assets are listed/de-listed?	[17:32]
thestringpuller	ThickAsThieves: he had a baby	[17:33]
thestringpuller	he emailed me at the start of june	[17:33]
thestringpuller	but haven't heard from him recently	[17:33]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.043899 BTC [+]	[17:33]
mjr_	indices usually have a "rebalance"	[17:33]
mjr_	at pre-announced times	[17:33]
mjr_	where they adjust the ratios to keep them in line with the funds stated goals	[17:34]
mjr_	most famous/important the russel imbalance	[17:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 35 @ 0.04294999 = 1.5032 BTC [+]	[17:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 25 @ 0.001944 = 0.0486 BTC [+]	[17:34]
mjr_	i actually wish there was more IB stuff in btcland	[17:35]
mjr_	M&A	[17:35]
ThickAsThieves	i'm interested in running some index funds eventually	[17:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.002399 BTC [+]	[17:36]
ThickAsThieves	like an MPEX4 or such	[17:36]
mjr_	hehehe	[17:36]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[17:36]
mjr_	hopefully it would be an mpex15 at that time	[17:36]
mjr_	i am excited about S.MG	[17:36]
ThickAsThieves	me too	[17:36]
mjr_	can't wait to play it	[17:36]
ThickAsThieves	i wish i bought more	[17:36]
Namworld	I want to play my game already	[17:37]
mjr_	oh lol, i just want to play it	[17:37]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[17:37]
mjr_	if you read the novel REAMDE you could see the cool applicatoins	[17:37]
mjr_	or you would see those cool ones, you can see other ones without reading it	[17:37]
peterl	TAT what would you index?	[17:37]
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ThickAsThieves	well there is more than one idea i have floating	[17:38]
davout	jus sayinn: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130626/194933/	[17:38]
ThickAsThieves	the easiest would be an index fund, where i actually buy 1 of each stock and sell them as 1 index unti	[17:38]
ThickAsThieves	unit*	[17:38]
ThickAsThieves	on other exchanges	[17:38]
peterl	you mean like the PT's?	[17:39]
ThickAsThieves	right	[17:39]
ThickAsThieves	except as an index	[17:39]
thestringpuller	I have a feeling mircea_popescu thinks of Gamasutra, as a "Fanfic" blog, as MPOE-PR would put it.	[17:39]
peterl	but all the stocks instead of individualized?	[17:39]
ThickAsThieves	right	[17:39]
peterl	I'd buy it	[17:39]
ThickAsThieves	sold!	[17:39]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[17:39]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.04294999 = 0.0859 BTC [+]	[17:40]
davout	thestringpuller: I find it to be an interesting article	[17:40]
mjr_	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala this is a fascinating article	[17:40]
thestringpuller	davout: I love Gamasutra, it's pretty much the news site for game developers.	[17:40]
ThickAsThieves	too many links!	[17:41]
davout	thestringpuller: didn't know it, actually it's the first time ever I read an article there :-)	[17:41]
davout	thestringpuller: you're a game developer .	[17:41]
davout	?	[17:41]
ThickAsThieves	he's THE game developer	[17:41]
davout	tell me moar	[17:42]
thestringpuller	No. More like a indie consultant.	[17:42]
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davout	proceed	[17:42]
thestringpuller	Did you know the reason the the goombas and koopas change in Super Mario Bros. is because the NES had limited color data.	[17:43]
thestringpuller	For instance in 1-1 they look "normal"	[17:43]
davout	what do you mean by "they change" ?	[17:43]
thestringpuller	but 1-2 they change to blue	[17:43]
davout	hm	[17:43]
davout	oh yes	[17:43]
davout	like in underworld	[17:43]
thestringpuller	also the clouds and the bushes are the same sprites	[17:43]
davout	i knew this one :-)	[17:43]
thestringpuller	ThickAsThieves philosophically disagrees with me on S.MG lol	[17:45]
thestringpuller	that's where dat sarcasm be comin' from	[17:45]
davout	if you started a zelda game by calling your character zelda you'd get a whole different quest	[17:45]
davout	ah i see	[17:45]
ThickAsThieves	i just think your gloom and doom is misplaced or at least disproportionate	[17:45]
davout	about S.MG ?	[17:46]
ThickAsThieves	about their methodology and path for the current game	[17:46]
davout	let's see how the execution rolls out	[17:47]
ThickAsThieves	that's my line	[17:47]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.0425 = 0.2125 BTC [-]	[17:47]
davout	either outcomes will be positive	[17:47]
davout	either i make some money on the S.MG shares	[17:47]
ThickAsThieves	string argues that is not good enough	[17:47]
davout	or we get to make fun at MP for failing miserably	[17:47]
thestringpuller	XD	[17:47]
ThickAsThieves	fat chance	[17:47]
emptyeddepended	does anyone know if gox yubikeys are locked or can be freely flashed and used for other purposes?	[17:48]
thestringpuller	MP will likely sweep it under the rug or have a salvage plan.	[17:48]
ThickAsThieves	or have a way to portray it as a great success	[17:48]
davout	emptyeddepended: http://linux.die.net/man/1/ykpersonalize	[17:48]
ThickAsThieves	regardless of anyone else's measure	[17:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 58 @ 0.048994 = 2.8417 BTC [-]	[17:48]
mjr_	i'm just looking forward to playing it	[17:49]
ThickAsThieves	but in this case i think he'd be right	[17:49]
mjr_	but would you describe it as a "money game"	[17:49]
ThickAsThieves	it's a great thing	[17:49]
ThickAsThieves	even if it falls flat	[17:49]
thestringpuller	Super Mario Bros. 3 was a great thing	[17:49]
thestringpuller	MegaMan 2 was a great thing...	[17:49]
davout	zelda 64 best game evar	[17:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 25 @ 0.043899 = 1.0975 BTC [+]	[17:49]
ThickAsThieves	michael chiklis was not a great thing	[17:50]
mjr_	thestringpuller: i think it is interesting, because similar to WoW you can earn money by playing	[17:50]
mjr_	vs a zynga game where you can only spend	[17:50]
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thestringpuller	You can earn money in any MMO. That's not why the core players play them though...	[17:50]
ThickAsThieves	string, what do you think of Rift's current model	[17:51]
ThickAsThieves	free to play	[17:51]
ThickAsThieves	pay to level up, etc	[17:51]
thestringpuller	Wow is that game 2 years old already?	[17:52]
ThickAsThieves	i dunno	[17:52]
Namworld	Should be subscription/single fee based.	[17:52]
thestringpuller	I think Rift is what kinda forced a lot of other games hands from the subscription model.	[17:52]
ThickAsThieves	they are simply offering what WoW players already pay for through grey markets	[17:52]
thestringpuller	Or perhaps it's just the "Zynga climate" in general.	[17:53]
thestringpuller	Cause after Rift came out LotRo and SWTOR became F2P	[17:53]
ThickAsThieves	not sure if it's a good thing or bad thinig personally	[17:53]
Namworld	The way it is now, with micropayments games, most play free, a few addicts pay thousands to have everything.	[17:53]
thestringpuller	Namworld: but what happens when those addicts go to rehab?	[17:53]
thestringpuller	"rehab" so to speak	[17:54]
ThickAsThieves	if you pay for all your stuff do you value the game more or less?	[17:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.42 BTC [+]	[17:54]
ThickAsThieves	are more likely to move on to a new game or less?	[17:54]
davout	rift became F2P a couple of months ago	[17:54]
davout	my gf raged about it	[17:54]
ThickAsThieves	right	[17:54]
davout	:D	[17:54]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[17:54]
rulother	Last month actually	[17:55]
davout	she was all like "fucking noobs gonna flood the servers"	[17:55]
thestringpuller	What devalues a game is whether or not you're making the gameplay optional or not.	[17:55]
Namworld	And honestly, how fun is a game when to progress, you must pay? Isn't the whole point to entertain yourself with good gameplay and advancement through that gameplay? A subscription for online games and flat fee for offline game is a good model.	[17:55]
ThickAsThieves	much like when WoW introduced DKs	[17:55]
davout	i was actually quite happy, seeing my chances of getting sandwiches made increase slightly	[17:55]
ThickAsThieves	it wasn't THAT bad	[17:55]
Namworld	But whatever, companies are free to release a payment model as they please.	[17:55]
ThickAsThieves	Nam you dont HAVE to pay	[17:55]
ThickAsThieves	you MAY pay	[17:56]
thestringpuller	Namworld makes the best point. It has to be fun. You can make any gimmick you want in a game, but people are going to keep playing it.	[17:56]
thestringpuller	It's like being hooked on crack.	[17:56]
ThickAsThieves	it can still be fun	[17:56]
thestringpuller	No one wants to fucking smoke crack, but it's addictive.	[17:56]
ThickAsThieves	when i played WoW,	[17:56]
ThickAsThieves	i only enjoyed raiding	[17:56]
mjr_	DK's were fun	[17:56]
ThickAsThieves	i despised farming	[17:56]
mjr_	i stopped b4 pandas	[17:56]
ThickAsThieves	so i paid for gold	[17:56]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 190 @ 0.002399 = 0.4558 BTC [+]	[17:57]
mjr_	the one after lich king i think	[17:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.0024 = 0.24 BTC [+]	[17:57]
ThickAsThieves	then i could spend my time playing the dame the way i wanted	[17:57]
ThickAsThieves	game*	[17:57]
thestringpuller	That's MPOE-PR's point.	[17:57]
Namworld	You don't HAVE to pay. But most micropayment games have gameplay made so that if you don't pay, you can't advance, compete or must grind for months on end to acquire "premium" currencies.	[17:57]
Namworld	It really kills the gameplay value	[17:57]
thestringpuller	But do you know why they make you farm ThickAsThieves?	[17:57]
thestringpuller	or the original intent	[17:57]
ThickAsThieves	to make the game last longer	[17:58]
ThickAsThieves	lack of unique content	[17:58]
thestringpuller	Not entirely, that's half the coin. But they wanted to create a barrier to entry to the end game.	[17:58]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 50 @ 0.0429 = 2.145 BTC [+]	[17:58]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 45 @ 0.04294999 = 1.9327 BTC [+]	[17:58]
ThickAsThieves	seems to be rewording what i said	[17:59]
thestringpuller	In the same way MP charges 30 BTC to get into MPEX. In order to raid you needed to go through 60+ levels of shit.	[17:59]
thestringpuller	It does extend your playtime.	[17:59]
thestringpuller	But a lot of people drop out before they get to the end.	[17:59]
ThickAsThieves	but if i want onto mpex i can buy 30btc	[17:59]
ThickAsThieves	i dont need to grind	[17:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.043989 BTC [+]	[17:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 52 @ 0.04399 = 2.2875 BTC [+]	[17:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 322 @ 0.044 = 14.168 BTC [+]	[17:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 415 @ 0.04444444 = 18.4444 BTC [+]	[17:59]
thestringpuller	Yea but a lot of people who would want to get into MPEX say "fuck it" and "drop out".	[17:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 34 @ 0.0446211 = 1.5171 BTC [+]	[18:00]
Namworld	they make you grind because you know, monthly subscription. While when it's payments to advance, it's either pay immediately to go on or drop.	[18:00]
davout	if they really want to trade on mpex they just go on coinbr	[18:00]
mjr_	^ what i was going to say	[18:01]
thestringpuller	What Namworld said :D	[18:01]
mjr_	could taht be the equivalent of crafting?	[18:01]
mjr_	or like social gaming on WoW	[18:01]
mjr_	hanging out in the town hall	[18:01]
davout	stopped gaming at counter strike	[18:01]
mjr_	I mean, there was an interesting article on hats	[18:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 43 @ 0.044 = 1.892 BTC [-]	[18:01]
ThickAsThieves	i think great content and accessibility to it IS what makes a game good	[18:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.044 BTC [-]	[18:01]
ThickAsThieves	not the reverse	[18:01]
Namworld	The thing is, with payments to advance, few can play, and a few drops big amounts of cash to show off their wealth. Poor gameplay, you just pay to progress.	[18:02]
davout	mmorpgs are like alcohol, they cost money, and more importantly they cost time	[18:02]
Namworld	A good game is enjoyable and can be sold to everyone at a cheaper prices. Less money per persons, more players.	[18:02]
Namworld	And usually ends up being a more enjoyable game.	[18:02]
mjr_	i like LoL's idea	[18:02]
thestringpuller	ThickAsThieves: and that's my point exactly, good content. more generally "fun"	[18:02]
ThickAsThieves	WoW did not use the money for this purpose	[18:02]
mjr_	which is for the most part, gameplay free, look cool = money	[18:02]
ThickAsThieves	they rake(d) in millions and millions	[18:03]
ThickAsThieves	yet new 3d models were rare	[18:03]
mjr_	has anyone here read REAMDE?	[18:03]
ThickAsThieves	and new content sporadic	[18:03]
thestringpuller	WoW actually raked in billions	[18:03]
ThickAsThieves	nope	[18:03]
ThickAsThieves	even worse	[18:03]
ThickAsThieves	that drove me crazy as a player	[18:03]
thestringpuller	mjr_: isn't that by neal stephenson?	[18:03]
ThickAsThieves	seeing the same art on endgame armor and weps	[18:03]
ThickAsThieves	recolored	[18:04]
mjr_	thestringpuller: yes	[18:04]
ThickAsThieves	and seeing endgame bosses with the same models	[18:04]
mjr_	specifically about "farming" and "in game money" and how it relates to real world	[18:04]
mjr_	the game described is really interesting	[18:04]
thestringpuller	mjr_: I was told it was Snow Crash but in a different time period...	[18:04]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.351001 BTC [-]	[18:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 4.351 = 17.404 BTC [-]	[18:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 4.3501 = 13.0503 BTC [-]	[18:05]
thestringpuller	ThickAsThieves: but that actually doesn't have to matter. In Mario all of the sprites are practically the same because of hardware limitations.	[18:05]
mjr_	not at all	[18:05]
mjr_	ok, there are similarities	[18:06]
ThickAsThieves	it mattered to me	[18:06]
mjr_	i mean, the metaverse could be looked at like an mmorpg	[18:06]
ThickAsThieves	and i wasnt alone	[18:06]
ThickAsThieves	because mario, is not an argument	[18:06]
thestringpuller	Yes but if the gameplay were new and they weren't obviously milking you would you really care?	[18:06]
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ThickAsThieves	equipment as a carrot is a huge part of WoW	[18:06]
ThickAsThieves	if the carrot is stale, the chase is staler for it	[18:07]
thestringpuller	Wasn't that the case in Diablo II years before?	[18:07]
thestringpuller	It's like Gatsby syndrome without the prohibition...	[18:08]
ThickAsThieves	i think it's an overlooked and undervalued aspect of gaming, original new art	[18:08]
ThickAsThieves	MTG is a good example	[18:08]
ThickAsThieves	they see that value	[18:08]
thestringpuller	MTG also has artist on call that rivals a comic book publisher.	[18:08]
mjr_	what do you think of league of legends	[18:08]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 8 @ 0.048994 = 0.392 BTC [-]	[18:08]
thestringpuller	artists*	[18:08]
mjr_	i think it is a hugely popular game that has monetized in a great way	[18:09]
thestringpuller	It only exists because blizzard made Warcraft 3	[18:09]
mjr_	while not only keeping it about gameplay, but also making it competitive and lucrative	[18:09]
thestringpuller	and from Warcraft 3 came DoTA	[18:09]
mjr_	yes of course	[18:09]
mjr_	its a DOTA clone	[18:09]
thestringpuller	I was never a huge DoTA fan	[18:09]
ThickAsThieves	never played any of those	[18:09]
ThickAsThieves	sue me	[18:09]
mjr_	well, its fun	[18:09]
mjr_	and not a huge time commitment	[18:09]
mjr_	though there is leveling and decision trees to some extent	[18:10]
ThickAsThieves	i think my bro gifted me dota on steam recently	[18:10]
thestringpuller	It can be, but it just was too...simple in comparison to the rush of a 1v1 in Starcraft or Warcraft III. But I can see the allure.	[18:10]
ThickAsThieves	only game i put any mentionable time into in recent years is Skyrim	[18:10]
ThickAsThieves	and Plants v Zombies	[18:10]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[18:10]
mjr_	Two things have assured T’Rain’s commercial success: actual geological laws have been programmed to govern its terrain (it is this feature from which the game’s name derives); and the game uses a currency system based on real money — treasure mined from the strata of T’Rain’s crust can be transformed into earthly coin.	[18:11]
mjr_	that sounds exactly (or pretty close) to S.MG	[18:11]
mjr_	that is the game in REAMDE	[18:11]
thestringpuller	and eerily similar to the "The World" of .hack//anythinghere	[18:11]
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ThickAsThieves	i dont think S.MG generates coin at all	[18:12]
ThickAsThieves	it consumes it	[18:12]
mjr_	no, coins are put into it	[18:12]
ThickAsThieves	and offers ways for you to sell things for it	[18:12]
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mjr_	but things cost money and crafting combines value	[18:12]
mjr_	i think that the money you put in is not all yours though	[18:12]
ThickAsThieves	i think only consumables are planned to cost money, like food	[18:12]
thestringpuller	mjr_: you would have liked the original incarnation of Star Wars Galaxies	[18:12]
mjr_	some goes to trees, metal etc, from the rough description i heard	[18:12]
thestringpuller	mjr_: ALl of the items in the game had to be crafted.	[18:13]
thestringpuller	mjr_: so corporations of course formed to rape the planets of their resources.	[18:14]
mjr_	lol cool	[18:14]
mjr_	but how did the trees get there	[18:14]
thestringpuller	I dont think there was a tree resource	[18:15]
mjr_	ah ok	[18:15]
thestringpuller	I think minecraft has that on lock down (jkjk)	[18:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.01861 BTC [-]	[18:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 100 @ 0.0186 = 1.86 BTC [-]	[18:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 4 @ 0.0186 = 0.0744 BTC [-]	[18:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 95 @ 0.0181 = 1.7195 BTC [-]	[18:15]
mjr_	anyways, tying a game to something meaningful is usually a recipe for successs	[18:15]
mjr_	lol MC is pretty fun	[18:15]
mjr_	lets people be creative and build stuf	[18:16]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 50 @ 0.048994 = 2.4497 BTC [-]	[18:17]
rulother	Did anyone here play DAoC?	[18:19]
thestringpuller	ThickAsThieves: do you know why GTA has become so successful? Because of the subtle and gross content you desire in a game. Lets take Fruit computers for example: http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/images/FruitComputers-GTAVCS-advert.png That advert is from Vice City, which takes play in the 80's. The fake brand perpetuates throughout the entire series. Only hardcore players will actually read the shit, but it's still	[18:21]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 5 @ 0.001944 = 0.0097 BTC [+]	[18:22]
thestringpuller	MP wants to create that kind of world in his flagship game. How he does it is irrelevant, but it's a vast undertaking. To underestimate such an endeavor is practically suicide.	[18:23]
davout	he has romanian slaves working in sweatshops for the AI, it's going to rock	[18:24]
beetlebee	but there is no official name convention actually there is. http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/mpsics-in-detail/	[18:24]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.043899 = 0.878 BTC [-]	[18:25]
thestringpuller	davout: that's what Atari did, and look at them now...	[18:25]
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davout	lol	[18:26]
thestringpuller	davout: I respect the shit out of MP, but I question his game company. I wish I could have faith. I WANT TO BELIEVE ThickAsThieves	[18:26]
thestringpuller	I WANT TO BELIEVE!!!!	[18:26]
ThickAsThieves	so believe	[18:26]
ThickAsThieves	it doesn't require such concern to believe	[18:27]
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thestringpuller	http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/026/651/believe.gif	[18:27]
thestringpuller	very fitting	[18:28]
thestringpuller	http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/images/IFruitphone-GTAIV-advert.png - I want one.	[18:28]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 35 @ 0.0439 = 1.5365 BTC [+]	[18:35]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 20 @ 0.018101 = 0.362 BTC [+]	[18:35]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 5 @ 0.0181 = 0.0905 BTC [-]	[18:35]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 17 @ 0.018 = 0.306 BTC [-]	[18:36]
mjr_	just to throw this out there	[18:36]
mjr_	if anyone is in NYC and wants to come to Satoshi Square, its in Union Square from 5-7pm	[18:37]
mjr_	north side of the park, by the Lincoln Statue	[18:37]
Namworld	Y u no come to Montreal?!?	[18:38]
Namworld	Build a Bitcoin monument or something	[18:38]
Namworld	Declare it Bitcoin Capital of the world.	[18:38]
mjr_	i really really want to go to montreal	[18:38]
mjr_	i would love that	[18:38]
mjr_	i hear it is an awesome town	[18:38]
*	ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[18:38]
Namworld	Love it.	[18:38]
mjr_	and would love to visit and help organize an event there	[18:38]
Namworld	Cheap housing, cheap living costs. Compared to most major urban cities	[18:39]
mjr_	i was just thinking actually of a tool that would be nice, (i need to add a calendar anyway), but a consensus building location chooser for new groups meeting	[18:39]
Namworld	All on an island.	[18:39]
mjr_	not necessary, but would be nice	[18:39]
mjr_	so much to be done...	[18:42]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 100 @ 0.04499989 = 4.5 BTC [+]	[18:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 56 @ 0.0449999 = 2.52 BTC [+]	[18:44]
Diablo-D3	Namworld: no no no	[18:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 8 @ 0.045 = 0.36 BTC [+]	[18:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 7 @ 0.045 = 0.315 BTC [+]	[18:44]
Diablo-D3	canada is not going to get a bitcoin capital	[18:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 12 @ 0.045 = 0.54 BTC [+]	[18:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 38 @ 0.045 = 1.71 BTC [+]	[18:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 68 @ 0.045 = 3.06 BTC [+]	[18:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 94 @ 0.045 = 4.23 BTC [+]	[18:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.045 = 0.27 BTC [+]	[18:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 14 @ 0.045399 = 0.6356 BTC [+]	[18:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 50 @ 0.045399 = 2.27 BTC [+]	[18:46]
mjr_	well, if canada were to have a bitcoin capital, i think montreal would be perfect	[18:46]
mjr_	it has that je ne sais quoi	[18:47]
mjr_	not to mention super hot girls at great strip clubs	[18:47]
mjr_	that was the quoi i was looking for	[18:47]
rulother	So I'm thinking of cancelling my bfl order for 3 singles, they're saying preorders placed before Jan 2013, will now ship out by Sept, then you have all of Feb-April crap. Mine was placed in April	[18:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.38 BTC [+]	[18:50]
ThickAsThieves	ouch	[18:51]
ThickAsThieves	didnt they cancel refunds?	[18:51]
rulother	If you ordered after April yeah	[18:52]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 15 @ 0.043503 = 0.6525 BTC [-]	[18:52]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 34 @ 0.04350199 = 1.4791 BTC [-]	[18:52]
rulother	I'm just thinking it makes more sense to cancel and buy a Saturn instead	[18:52]
ThickAsThieves	or buy btc	[18:52]
ThickAsThieves	or buy AM stock	[18:53]
rulother	that as well	[18:53]
rulother	lol	[18:53]
ThickAsThieves	or buy bonds	[18:53]
ThickAsThieves	or use it for toilet paper	[18:53]
rulother	Might as well been tp all this time	[18:53]
pankkake	I'm actually investing in TP. because http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/16/venezuela-toilet-paper-shortage-50m	[18:54]
rulother	Ah good catch	[18:54]
mjr_	best part of the article Minister blames shortage on 'excessive demand caused by media campaign generated to disrupt the country'	[18:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 51 @ 0.0439 = 2.2389 BTC [+]	[18:56]
*	jborkl_ has quit (Quit: jborkl_)	[18:57]
*	jborkl (~jborkl@162-197-30-115.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:58]
*	jborkl has quit (Changing host)	[18:58]
*	jborkl (~jborkl@unaffiliated/jborkl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:58]
*	riX2000 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[18:59]
*	terryww has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)	[19:02]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 30 @ 0.045399 = 1.362 BTC [+]	[19:04]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 2 @ 0.004776 = 0.0096 BTC [+]	[19:06]
*	rpetrich has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)	[19:07]
*	jordandotdev has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[19:08]
*	Lee-- (~Lee@unaffiliated/lee-) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:08]
*	poggy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[19:09]
*	saulimus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[19:12]
*	Lee- has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[19:12]
*	saulimus (~someone@37-136-30-220.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:12]
*	benkay (~benkay@67.50.19.230) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 5 @ 0.004776 = 0.0239 BTC [+]	[19:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.019275 BTC [+]	[19:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 10 @ 0.019275 = 0.1928 BTC [+]	[19:19]
*	jordandotdev (uid7502@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cgebukiqcsnyicmk) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:21]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 37 @ 0.004621 = 0.171 BTC [-]	[19:22]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.00462 BTC [-]	[19:22]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004776 BTC [+]	[19:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 4 @ 0.31001711 = 1.2401 BTC [-]	[19:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 0.31001508 = 1.5501 BTC [-]	[19:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 3 @ 0.3003 = 0.9009 BTC [-]	[19:25]
*	emptyeddepended has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[19:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 9 @ 0.001935 = 0.0174 BTC [-]	[19:28]
*	rpetrich (uid280@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpcrlyysytfthrcl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 10 @ 0.3003 = 3.003 BTC [-]	[19:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0051 BTC [-]	[19:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.0436 = 0.436 BTC [-]	[19:39]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.0436 = 0.218 BTC [-]	[19:39]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.424997 BTC [+]	[19:40]
*	davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[19:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 8 @ 0.0435 = 0.348 BTC [-]	[19:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.425 BTC [+]	[19:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.425 = 8.85 BTC [+]	[19:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 2 @ 0.016005 = 0.032 BTC [-]	[19:41]
*	[\] (~imsaguy@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:42]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 481 @ 0.045379 = 21.8273 BTC [-]	[19:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.0439 = 0.0878 BTC [+]	[19:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 225 @ 0.04538 = 10.2105 BTC [+]	[19:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0449 BTC [-]	[19:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 72 @ 0.04441 = 3.1975 BTC [-]	[19:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0444 BTC [-]	[19:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 526 @ 0.044301 = 23.3023 BTC [-]	[19:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.0454 = 0.0908 BTC [+]	[19:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 200 @ 0.0454 = 9.08 BTC [+]	[19:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 163 @ 0.045499 = 7.4163 BTC [+]	[19:47]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 35 @ 0.04545 = 1.5908 BTC [-]	[19:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.0439 = 0.439 BTC [+]	[19:48]
jurov	mjr_, ThickAsThieves: iirc mircea did change the options pricing algo in april or may. the prices used to be better before. it's even mentioned in monthly report.	[19:49]
*	teslamp (~teslamp@149-169-173-150.nat.asu.edu) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:51]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.279 BTC [+]	[19:52]
ThickAsThieves	right	[19:52]
ThickAsThieves	i'm saying he doesn't like changing them as it is a form of defeat	[19:52]
*	teslamp has quit (Client Quit)	[19:52]
ThickAsThieves	now he may have over-corrected	[19:53]
*	teslamp (~teslamp@149-169-173-150.nat.asu.edu) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:53]
ThickAsThieves	and change in the other direction is waiting to happen, but he is waiting for mid-market competition as a reason	[19:53]
*	[\] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[19:53]
ThickAsThieves	so in both directions he will only change when he feels he's "lost" enough money	[19:54]
*	louong (~louong@S01060012174758b7.vc.shawcable.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:54]
ThickAsThieves	this is a theory	[19:54]
ThickAsThieves	more than a criticism	[19:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 5 @ 0.000896 = 0.0045 BTC [-]	[19:56]
ThickAsThieves	what other options	[19:56]
ThickAsThieves	he's still the only one backing real options	[19:56]
ThickAsThieves	albeit pricey ones atm	[19:56]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1 @ 0.000896 BTC [-]	[19:57]
*	[\] (~imsaguy@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.18897 BTC [+]	[19:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004777 BTC [+]	[19:58]
jurov	hint it would be possible for mpex whale to ask mp for margin and use that to cover options	[19:58]
jurov	but maybe they deem it too risky as well	[19:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1 @ 0.000896 BTC [-]	[19:59]
ThickAsThieves	that was basiclaly what mjr and i were discussing	[19:59]
ThickAsThieves	whther the real reason for the pricing is risk assessment	[19:59]
ThickAsThieves	or just over-correction	[19:59]
ThickAsThieves	and whether playing the midmarket is low-risk enough to play	[19:59]
jurov	i know. imho he probably uses worst possible scenario of price swing by 300% or so whereby all options are bought on one extremity and exercised on the other	[20:01]
*	GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[20:01]
*	[\] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[20:02]
*	GordonG3kko (~GordonG3k@gateway/tor-sasl/gordong3kko) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:02]
ThickAsThieves	Goat, all you seem to have to contribute lately is tearing people down and propping yourself up, are you on the rag or something?	[20:03]
*	B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[20:03]
ThickAsThieves	or am i just late noticing this	[20:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004777 BTC [+]	[20:05]
*	GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[20:06]
jurov	yes you're late goat said himself he's just trolling around	[20:09]
jurov	pls send tips to: 1ChaangNoiGoat1sFai1edTro1138vpJo	[20:10]
*	GordonG3kko (~GordonG3k@gateway/tor-sasl/gordong3kko) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.0439 = 0.3951 BTC [+]	[20:11]
*	B0g4r7 (natty@186.sub-75-243-44.myvzw.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 39 @ 0.048997 = 1.9109 BTC [+]	[20:12]
ThickAsThieves	call me new all you want, but my relevance here has eclipsed yours months ago	[20:15]
ThickAsThieves	what i think doesn't matter	[20:16]
ThickAsThieves	surely you have more to contribute than being another MP-is-a-scammer troll	[20:16]
ThickAsThieves	k	[20:17]
jurov	lol	[20:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 2 @ 0.019276 = 0.0386 BTC [+]	[20:18]
jurov	dunno, but prolly he did....otherwise he would be asking me about how many THs i have	[20:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 1 @ 0.030998 BTC [+]	[20:20]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 923 @ 0.001944 = 1.7943 BTC [+]	[20:20]
jurov	lol, that would prolly require petahashes	[20:20]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.4249 BTC [-]	[20:21]
*	jurov is secretly mining with atacirc... not bitcoin but vanity addresses to not disrupt iDiffs :D	[20:22]
*	[\] (~imsaguy@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:22]
ThickAsThieves	;;bcstats	[20:22]
gribble	Current Blocks: 245510 \| Current Difficulty: 2.1335329113983E7 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 245951 \| Next Difficulty In: 441 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 9 hours, 50 minutes, and 9 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 25598818.434 \| Estimated Percent Change: 19.98324	[20:22]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 225 @ 0.002231 = 0.502 BTC [+]	[20:22]
jurov	One atacirc is 6 petabytes of variable use memory, infinite parallel processor the size of a match head.	[20:22]
jurov	no it's applied phlebotinum (alien tech)	[20:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 25 @ 0.002231 = 0.0558 BTC [+]	[20:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.002232 BTC [+]	[20:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.425 BTC [+]	[20:24]
jurov	John Ringo - Live Free Or Die	[20:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 34 @ 0.002234 = 0.076 BTC [+]	[20:24]
*	GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[20:25]
pankkake	19%, shit	[20:25]
jurov	quite good fic... like, imagine mircea popescu being the first to successfully trade with aliens	[20:26]
jurov	minus the slavery	[20:26]
jurov	books	[20:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0439 BTC [+]	[20:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.425 BTC [+]	[20:27]
rulother	lol	[20:29]
Diablo-D3	what	[20:29]
jurov	let's start leetcoin ETF	[20:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 25 @ 0.001998 = 0.05 BTC [+]	[20:32]
*	GordonG3kko (~GordonG3k@gateway/tor-sasl/gordong3kko) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:32]
Diablo-D3	I assume not valid	[20:32]
Diablo-D3	heh	[20:33]
*	[\] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[20:33]
Diablo-D3	you do realize I was kidding earlier, right?	[20:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.357009 BTC [-]	[20:33]
Diablo-D3	its a running joke about obviously fake vanity addresses	[20:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.04355 = 0.4355 BTC [-]	[20:34]
*	ericmuyser (~ericmuyse@38.108.79.34) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.USD.C071T] 3 @ 0.34354301 = 1.0306 BTC	[20:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.USD.P071T] 3 @ 0.36565773 = 1.097 BTC	[20:38]
jurov	!ticker m ^oix	[20:39]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 60.45035313 / 61.7052854 / 120.48109686 (1421 shares, 862.62 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[20:39]
jurov	^ says there was 862btc traded last week in options	[20:39]
jurov	no it is computed only on week basis	[20:40]
*	ericmuys_ (~ericmuyse@38.108.87.20) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:40]
jurov	day/month is only empty placeholder for the bot	[20:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 824 @ 0.001999 = 1.6472 BTC [+]	[20:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 100 @ 0.001999 = 0.1999 BTC [+]	[20:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 20 @ 0.001999 = 0.04 BTC [+]	[20:41]
*	[\] (~imsaguy@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:42]
jurov	i see mostly O.USD.C113T/O.USD.C107T... if the weren't shorted, means nice dividend for s.mpoe	[20:42]
*	ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[20:42]
jurov	ofc, also if price keeps stable	[20:43]
jurov	no they weren't shorted. iirc mp said shorts don't go into OIX.	[20:44]
jurov	hm, 715 of O.USD.P095T, 655 O.USD.P101T sold? but they most likely aren't in money as well	[20:46]
*	Lee-- is now known as Lee-	[20:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 10 @ 0.009998 = 0.1 BTC [+]	[20:47]
jurov	i do... but not mine	[20:48]
ThickAsThieves	whose large balls do you have jurov?	[20:48]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[20:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 3 @ 0.002 = 0.006 BTC [+]	[20:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 17 @ 0.002 = 0.034 BTC [+]	[20:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 75 @ 0.001998 = 0.1499 BTC [-]	[20:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 233 @ 0.001935 = 0.4509 BTC [-]	[20:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 12 @ 0.0019 = 0.0228 BTC [-]	[20:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 483 @ 0.00189 = 0.9129 BTC [-]	[20:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.20759998 BTC [+]	[20:50]
jurov	what would govt accuse me of? i'm just humble service provider	[20:50]
ThickAsThieves	i had no idea...	[20:50]
jurov	somalia	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	yeah oix is long only	[20:50]
jurov	yes they do. apparently the warlords even managed to maintain functional cellphone network	[20:52]
jurov	yes. some libertard even really use that as an argument that "it's possible"	[20:52]
jurov	never mind some luxuries as tap water or so	[20:53]
*	riX2000 (~riX2000@unaffiliated/rix2000) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:53]
jurov	flaying goat	[20:54]
*	CheckDavid (~David@89.181.210.17) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:54]
rulother	Sounds like the life	[20:55]
jurov	which part of world do you fly to?	[20:55]
jurov	so we know what to nuke from orbit	[20:55]
rulother	NZ sounds nice at least	[20:56]
kakobrekla	you gonna water the park? i thought the city workers take care of that.	[20:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 54 @ 0.0435 = 2.349 BTC [-]	[20:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 46 @ 0.0435 = 2.001 BTC [-]	[20:58]
*	GordonG3kko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[21:00]
*	peterl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[21:01]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004651 BTC [-]	[21:01]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 8 @ 0.00465 = 0.0372 BTC [-]	[21:01]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.425 = 8.85 BTC [+]	[21:01]
*	GordonG3kko (~GordonG3k@gateway/tor-sasl/gordong3kko) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:03]
*	[\] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[21:05]
*	poggy_ (uid4184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egxjbinrdixssmyw) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:05]
*	error4739 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[21:09]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 18 @ 0.019276 = 0.347 BTC [+]	[21:10]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 16 @ 0.019279 = 0.3085 BTC [+]	[21:10]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 3 @ 0.004744 = 0.0142 BTC [+]	[21:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 27 @ 0.019497 = 0.5264 BTC [+]	[21:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 25 @ 0.019498 = 0.4875 BTC [+]	[21:12]
*	terryww (~terryww@84-255-240-24.static.t-2.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 14 @ 0.019499 = 0.273 BTC [+]	[21:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 12 @ 0.019499 = 0.234 BTC [+]	[21:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 24 @ 0.019499 = 0.468 BTC [+]	[21:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 28 @ 0.0435 = 1.218 BTC [-]	[21:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 56 @ 0.043002 = 2.4081 BTC [-]	[21:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 16 @ 0.043001 = 0.688 BTC [-]	[21:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 10 @ 0.016006 = 0.1601 BTC [+]	[21:16]
*	daybyter (~andreas@88-134-95-9-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:18]
*	ericmills (~ericmills@66.212.107.74) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:21]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 1 @ 0.030998 BTC [+]	[21:22]
*	matthew_boyd (519fee4e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.159.238.78) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:22]
*	cads (~m@adsl-108-128-1-164.asm.bellsouth.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 10 @ 0.048997 = 0.49 BTC [+]	[21:25]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 3 @ 0.00459 = 0.0138 BTC [-]	[21:27]
*	PhantomSpark\|2 (~kvirc@pool-71-251-16-105.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 73 @ 0.004582 = 0.3345 BTC [-]	[21:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.0444 = 0.222 BTC [-]	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	omfg look at all the stuff people said about me while i was away!	[21:29]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	mjr_ of course it'	[21:29]
ThickAsThieves	scammers don't get to speak for themselves!	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	s different if there's 1 day or 30 days left man.	[21:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004581 BTC [-]	[21:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.00458 BTC [-]	[21:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 5 @ 0.0022 = 0.011 BTC [-]	[21:33]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.044 = 0.22 BTC [-]	[21:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 25 @ 0.04385 = 1.0963 BTC [-]	[21:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.04381 = 0.3943 BTC [-]	[21:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0431 BTC [-]	[21:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0422001 BTC [-]	[21:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 109 @ 0.04210001 = 4.5889 BTC [-]	[21:34]
*	PhantomSpark (~kvirc@pool-71-251-16-105.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.04355 BTC [+]	[21:36]
*	PhantomSpark\|2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[21:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 3 @ 0.019499 = 0.0585 BTC [+]	[21:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 2 @ 0.019499 = 0.039 BTC [+]	[21:43]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.39 = 8.78 BTC [-]	[21:43]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves finally found it!	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	it wasnt an article, it was a comment	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	"I don’t think it’s either practical nor feasible nor even desirable to use Bitcoin in the day to day dabble of pizzas, phone credits, hairspray and sneakers"	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/#comment-92015	[21:44]
ozbot	Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[21:45]
*	Namworld has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[21:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 25 @ 0.0022 = 0.055 BTC [-]	[21:46]
ThickAsThieves	new mpex slogan?	[21:47]
ThickAsThieves	Risk is a Luxury	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	hehe i couldn't take the credit for that one.	[21:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 16 @ 0.00474 = 0.0758 BTC [+]	[21:49]
ThickAsThieves	so how does it play out then? a horde of bitcoiners trying to use bitcoin as a currency and molding it to such	[21:50]
ThickAsThieves	and bitcoiners vulutring over the fiat exchange rate	[21:50]
ThickAsThieves	does it all end with them failing and the powerful holding most of the coin?	[21:51]
ThickAsThieves	"end"	[21:51]
ThickAsThieves	this is why i call it risk as a luxury	[21:51]
ThickAsThieves	because if you are right, it's a a pretty big risk play	[21:51]
ThickAsThieves	assuming it will end up as you imagine	[21:52]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 17 @ 0.00474 = 0.0806 BTC [+]	[21:52]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin can't be moulded tho is the thing.	[21:52]
mircea_popescu	they'll mould themselves.	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	people like to think of bitcoin in terms of it being a thing, like an iphone.	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	however, this is not the case. bitcoin is in fact a law, like gravity,	[21:53]
ThickAsThieves	the way i start explaining to people usually begins with,	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	in no sense under the control of it's "inventor", who's in fact a discoveror.	[21:54]
ThickAsThieves	"yknow what the invention of the internet did to business and communication? it's like that for money"	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	something of the sort yes	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	i prefer anal sex.	[21:54]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	whenever people want to know who satoshi really was... well.. he was the ONE DUDE who invented sticking it in the poop[er.	[21:55]
ThickAsThieves	this changes everything!	[21:55]
matthew_boyd	mircea_popescu, you come out with some crazy shit sometimes, but because it's interesting, I stay :P	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	now... make it illegal today and you'll make it mandatory tomorrow.	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	matthew_boyd i think you speak for most people here when you say that.	[21:55]
matthew_boyd	haha, I gathered that : )	[21:56]
*	[\] (~imsaguy@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:00]
*	WormDrink (~WormDrink@196-215-4-43.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:03]
*	WormDrink has quit (Changing host)	[22:03]
*	WormDrink (~WormDrink@unaffiliated/wormdrink) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.043551 = 0.1307 BTC [+]	[22:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 1 @ 0.048997 BTC [+]	[22:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.04355 = 0.0871 BTC [-]	[22:03]
*	Pucilowski has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[22:03]
*	Pucilowski (~pucilowsk@quassel.woboq.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:04]
*	ericmuys_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:05]
*	Pucilowski has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:05]
*	ericmuyser (~ericmuyse@38.108.87.20) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:05]
*	Bunnyh has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[22:06]
*	Bunnyh (bunnyh@psychedelic.psoasnet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:09]
*	ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[22:10]
*	Namworld (Namworld@modemcable075.132-23-96.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.0437 = 0.437 BTC [+]	[22:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 25 @ 0.048997 = 1.2249 BTC [+]	[22:13]
*	benkay has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[22:17]
*	Eizy (~Adium@p578F77DF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 96 @ 0.004461 = 0.4283 BTC [-]	[22:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 50 @ 0.00446 = 0.223 BTC [-]	[22:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 12 @ 0.004453 = 0.0534 BTC [-]	[22:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 5 @ 0.00445 = 0.0223 BTC [-]	[22:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 35 @ 0.0044 = 0.154 BTC [-]	[22:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 21 @ 0.0044 = 0.0924 BTC [-]	[22:19]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 20 @ 0.00212 = 0.0424 BTC [+]	[22:19]
*	Pucilowski_ (~pucilowsk@quassel.woboq.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:20]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.1899 BTC [+]	[22:22]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.194617 BTC [+]	[22:22]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 4 @ 0.1998 = 0.7992 BTC [+]	[22:22]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 4 @ 0.1999 = 0.7996 BTC [+]	[22:22]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 10 @ 0.199999 = 2 BTC [+]	[22:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 10 @ 0.2 = 2 BTC [+]	[22:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 40 @ 0.2 = 8 BTC [+]	[22:23]
*	terryww has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[22:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 1 @ 0.0308 BTC [-]	[22:23]
ThickAsThieves	;;bcstats	[22:25]
gribble	Current Blocks: 245529 \| Current Difficulty: 2.1335329113983E7 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 245951 \| Next Difficulty In: 422 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 27 minutes, and 5 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 25656761.3422 \| Estimated Percent Change: 20.25482	[22:25]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.2 = 0.6 BTC [+]	[22:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 11 @ 0.2 = 2.2 BTC [+]	[22:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 5 @ 0.2 = 1 BTC [+]	[22:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 10 @ 0.2 = 2 BTC [+]	[22:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 10 @ 0.205 = 2.05 BTC [+]	[22:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 12 @ 0.2092 = 2.5104 BTC [+]	[22:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 12 @ 0.21 = 2.52 BTC [+]	[22:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 20 @ 0.21 = 4.2 BTC [+]	[22:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.211 = 0.422 BTC [+]	[22:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 100 @ 0.002011 = 0.2011 BTC [+]	[22:28]
*	benkay (~benkay@67.50.19.230) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 8 @ 0.215 = 1.72 BTC [+]	[22:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.215 = 0.43 BTC [+]	[22:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 50 @ 0.219999 = 11 BTC [+]	[22:29]
*	topace_ (~asdfasdfq@unaffiliated/topace) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 87 @ 0.00212 = 0.1844 BTC [+]	[22:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 30 @ 0.00212 = 0.0636 BTC [+]	[22:32]
*	B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[22:32]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 25 @ 0.002125 = 0.0531 BTC [+]	[22:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 30 @ 0.002125 = 0.0638 BTC [+]	[22:33]
*	Chilca has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:33]
*	B0g4r7 (natty@186.sub-75-243-44.myvzw.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 12 @ 0.00213 = 0.0256 BTC [+]	[22:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 100 @ 0.00215 = 0.215 BTC [+]	[22:35]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 45 @ 0.00215 = 0.0968 BTC [+]	[22:35]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.0438 = 0.1752 BTC [+]	[22:35]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.270001 BTC [-]	[22:39]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]	[22:39]
*	terryww (~terryww@84-255-240-24.static.t-2.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:40]
ThickAsThieves	http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/8/4503946/commerce-department-unnecessary-cybersecurity-computer-destruction	[22:40]
ozbot	US Commerce Department destroyed $170,000 worth of TVs, mice, and more to root out malware \| The Ver	[22:40]
ThickAsThieves	"The department destroyed over $170,000 worth of equipment in the process, including printers, TVs, and mice, and only stopped destroying them when its disposal budget ran out. But, as the department's own auditor put it, "The destruction of IT components was clearly unnecessary." Indeed, throwing away computer mice seems like a poor approach to ridding an organization of digital	[22:41]
ThickAsThieves	threats."	[22:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.4 BTC [+]	[22:43]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.4 = 8.8 BTC [+]	[22:43]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 15 @ 0.048997 = 0.735 BTC [+]	[22:43]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.0438 = 0.0876 BTC [+]	[22:43]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.22 BTC [+]	[22:43]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 16 @ 0.00474 = 0.0758 BTC [+]	[22:44]
*	topace has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[22:47]
Namworld	...	[22:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 49 @ 0.22 = 10.78 BTC [+]	[22:48]
*	topace_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[22:48]
*	ericmuyser (~ericmuyse@38.108.79.116) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:49]
Namworld	Perhaps it was unnecessary to destroy all that equipment. But do you know what was necessary?	[22:50]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 15 @ 0.239999 = 3.6 BTC [+]	[22:51]
Namworld	I think you can guess where I'm going with that...	[22:51]
*	topace (~topace@184.151.127.198) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:53]
*	topace is now known as Guest99754	[22:53]
*	Guest99754 is now known as topace_	[22:53]
*	topace_ has quit (Changing host)	[22:54]
*	topace_ (~topace@unaffiliated/topace) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:54]
*	chsados has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[22:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.424988 BTC [+]	[22:54]
benkay	what, you don't install MacAffee on your mice?	[22:56]
*	benkay has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)	[22:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 29 @ 0.239999 = 6.96 BTC [+]	[22:57]
rulother	Man basic has been rising quite a bit recently	[22:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.425 BTC [+]	[22:59]
*	daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)	[23:05]
*	topace_ has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)	[23:06]
*	topace_ (~topace@184.151.127.198) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:07]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 12 @ 0.043003 = 0.516 BTC [-]	[23:08]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 19 @ 0.0438 = 0.8322 BTC [+]	[23:08]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.239999 = 0.48 BTC [+]	[23:08]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 12 @ 0.043799 = 0.5256 BTC [-]	[23:09]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 25 @ 0.0439 = 1.0975 BTC [+]	[23:09]
*	ardeay__ (~Jetscram@wsip-174-79-250-227.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:10]
*	ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:11]
*	ericmuyser (~ericmuyse@38.108.79.116) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.358515 BTC [-]	[23:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.358 BTC [-]	[23:12]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.357009 = 8.714 BTC [-]	[23:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.357009 BTC [-]	[23:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.23 BTC [-]	[23:15]
*	ericmills has quit (Quit: ericmills)	[23:15]
*	ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 54 @ 0.239999 = 12.9599 BTC [+]	[23:16]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 20 @ 0.24 = 4.8 BTC [+]	[23:16]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 30 @ 0.18 = 5.4 BTC [-]	[23:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.357009 BTC [-]	[23:17]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 15 @ 0.244 = 3.66 BTC [+]	[23:18]
*	topace_ has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)	[23:18]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.043005 BTC [-]	[23:21]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.043005 = 0.086 BTC [-]	[23:21]
*	topace_ (~topace@ottawa-hs-69-20-234-37.s-ip.magma.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:22]
*	peterl_ (d8634153@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.99.65.83) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:24]
*	topace__ (~topace@gateway/tor-sasl/topace) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BFMINES] 1000 @ 0.00399 = 3.99 BTC [+]	[23:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.27 BTC [-]	[23:26]
*	topace_ has quit (Changing host)	[23:27]
*	topace_ (~topace@unaffiliated/topace) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.043005 BTC [-]	[23:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.243 = 0.486 BTC [-]	[23:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 15 @ 0.043985 = 0.6598 BTC [+]	[23:31]
*	topace_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 55 @ 0.00215 = 0.1183 BTC [+]	[23:32]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.243 BTC [-]	[23:32]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 10 @ 0.2475 = 2.475 BTC [+]	[23:32]
*	topace__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.357008 BTC [-]	[23:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.357008 BTC [-]	[23:33]
*	benkay (~benkay@67.50.19.230) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:33]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 10 @ 0.2475 = 2.475 BTC [+]	[23:35]
*	PsychoticBoy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[23:36]
*	saulimus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[23:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 5 @ 0.016006 = 0.08 BTC [+]	[23:36]
*	ecapot (~ecapot@unaffiliated/topace) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:36]
*	PsychoticBoy (~Psychotic@5ED180CA.cm-7-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:37]
*	PsychoticBoy has quit (Changing host)	[23:37]
*	PsychoticBoy (~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.043899 = 0.0878 BTC [+]	[23:41]
*	PsychoticBoy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[23:43]
*	ecapot is now known as topace	[23:44]
*	PsychoticBoy (~Psychotic@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 12 @ 0.043007 = 0.5161 BTC [-]	[23:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.1991 BTC [-]	[23:47]
*	ericmuyser (~ericmuyse@d206-116-204-133.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:47]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 100 @ 0.001892 = 0.1892 BTC [-]	[23:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 200 @ 0.001891 = 0.3782 BTC [-]	[23:50]
*	topace has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:50]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 200 @ 0.001891 = 0.3782 BTC [-]	[23:50]
assbot	[BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 110 @ 0.00189 = 0.2079 BTC [-]	[23:50]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.287998 = 0.576 BTC [+]	[23:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 0.3003 = 0.6006 BTC [-]	[23:51]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.199 BTC [-]	[23:52]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 5 @ 0.287999 = 1.44 BTC [+]	[23:52]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.287999 BTC [+]	[23:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 25 @ 0.004729 = 0.1182 BTC [-]	[23:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.019249 BTC [-]	[23:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.019249 BTC [-]	[23:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 9 @ 0.01925 = 0.1733 BTC [+]	[23:55]
*	ericmuyser has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:57]
*	ericmuyser (~ericmuyse@d206-116-204-133.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 18 @ 0.043007 = 0.7741 BTC [-]	[23:58]
assbot	[BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.043007 = 0.086 BTC [-]	[23:59]
*	benkay has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)	[23:59]

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