Forum logs for 07 Mar 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	!rate nubbins` -1 more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.	[00:02]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/b8271fc2324071f8	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.nubbins`.-1:2f86f1e0d27e296c65d393c3735b6596cc002265d63e3fc387f97968b5b46f24	[00:02]
assbot	Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.	[00:02]
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mircea_popescu	you'll be on my ignore list. if you actually have something to say find a lord to play telephone, but ideally spare me.	[00:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00054113 = 18.0196 BTC [-] {3}	[00:06]
jurov	that escalated quickly	[00:06]
mircea_popescu	if i wanted to talk to redditards i'd make a reddit account.	[00:07]
jurov	So, w're back to mp and alf being 80% i guess.	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	plenty o' room for idea guys all over the webs.	[00:12]
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mircea_popescu	in more practical news - jurov here's one for you. https://bitbet.us/bet/1247/parties-smer-sd-and-sns-to-win-supermajority-in/ is to be resolved. problem is the res source gives vote % and not a word re seats, and the bet is re seats.	[00:18]
assbot	BitBet - Parties SMER-SD and SNS to win supermajority in Slovak parliament :: 0.87 B (38%) on Yes, 1.42 B (62%) on No \| closed 3 days 3 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QweIc2 )	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	is there a good source to document how you convert from these ?	[00:19]
jurov	doh, they are incredibly slow.. there is "allocation of seats" link but they have not done it yet.	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	alrighty. so then it waits.	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	not to even speak of https://bitbet.us/bet/1185/mariano-rajoy-to-remain-pm-of-spain-after/	[00:20]
assbot	BitBet - Mariano Rajoy to remain PM of Spain after December Election :: 0.21 B (78%) on Yes, 0.06 B (22%) on No \| closed 2 months 3 weeks ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QweQIw )	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	believe it or not IN FUCKING MARCH the spanyards do not yet rightly know whether that fucktard won or not the december election.	[00:20]
*	trinque settles in to catch up on a weekend of l0gz	[00:21]
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jurov	trinque: prepare several buckets of popcorn	[00:23]
BingoBoingo	and gnashing and wailing, bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance. Also touch of denial mixed in.	[00:23]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00054054 = 12.054 BTC [-] {3}	[00:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35351 @ 0.00054005 = 19.0913 BTC [-] {4}	[00:49]
jurov	mircea_popescu: to mpex pls	[00:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00054332 = 15.3216 BTC [+] {2}	[02:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.0005396 = 8.6336 BTC [-] {4}	[02:43]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00053958 = 6.367 BTC [-] {2}	[02:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22780 @ 0.00053958 = 12.2916 BTC [-]	[02:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.0005387 = 10.9625 BTC [-] {4}	[02:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39753 @ 0.00053843 = 21.4042 BTC [-] {3}	[02:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44948 @ 0.00053743 = 24.1564 BTC [-] {2}	[02:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22778 @ 0.00053734 = 12.2395 BTC [-] {3}	[02:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00054122 = 20.5664 BTC [+] {2}	[03:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @ 0.00054285 = 22.5283 BTC [+] {2}	[03:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4143 @ 0.00054122 = 2.2423 BTC [-]	[03:37]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22863 @ 0.00053687 = 12.2745 BTC [-] {3}	[04:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27522 @ 0.00053685 = 14.7752 BTC [-] {3}	[04:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00053673 = 17.068 BTC [-] {4}	[04:20]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18435 @ 0.0005363 = 9.8867 BTC [-] {2}	[04:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21065 @ 0.00053618 = 11.2946 BTC [-] {2}	[04:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00053576 = 10.5545 BTC [-] {4}	[04:47]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00053646 = 10.1391 BTC [+]	[05:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.0005357 = 8.6516 BTC [-] {4}	[05:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57254 @ 0.00053547 = 30.6578 BTC [-] {2}	[06:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00053668 = 17.7909 BTC [+] {2}	[06:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44200 @ 0.00053547 = 23.6678 BTC [-]	[06:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54877 @ 0.00053544 = 29.3833 BTC [-] {2}	[06:51]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.000537 = 14.6601 BTC [+]	[06:57]
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punkman	"You are using GnuPG version 1.4.12, which is not supported anymore. Enigmail requires GnuPG version 2.0.7 or newer. Please upgrade your GnuPG installation, or Enigmail will not work"	[07:16]
punkman	not like I used it anyway but annoying	[07:17]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b136	[07:51]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57600 @ 0.0005346 = 30.793 BTC [-] {4}	[08:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00053427 = 12.1279 BTC [-] {2}	[08:48]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52257 @ 0.00053565 = 27.9915 BTC [+]	[09:05]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.	[09:10]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f72bd9d5b92dba3d	[09:14]
assbot	Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 2 to -1 with note: tinpot dictator, throws tantrums when embarrassed. petulant and unwilling to admit error in the face of overwhelming evidence. a poor example of how a lord should behave. great for milking a few BTC from, but otherwise avoid.	[09:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46350 @ 0.00053421 = 24.7606 BTC [-] {2}	[09:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62443 @ 0.00053565 = 33.4476 BTC [+]	[09:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8999 @ 0.00053609 = 4.8243 BTC [+]	[09:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00053791 = 30.4457 BTC [+] {4}	[09:46]
shinohai	;;ticker --market all	[09:49]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 410.5, vol: 5166.35971885 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 412.934, vol: 7021.9455 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 410.5, vol: 13974.58828093 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 408.0, vol: 1.20992211 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.4288, vol: 52510.01710000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 408.494, vol: 1300.31356398 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 410.81265, vol: 235.90882398 \| Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)	[09:49]
shinohai	;;more	[09:49]
gribble	416.52671852	[09:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21620 @ 0.00053609 = 11.5903 BTC [-] {2}	[09:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00053609 = 3.699 BTC [-]	[09:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33495 @ 0.00053609 = 17.9563 BTC [-]	[10:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.0005392 = 2.5882 BTC [+] {2}	[10:18]
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danielpbarron	nubbins`, it looks like you're the one throwing a tantrum, and it "shouldn't work that way" is the general complaint in here against bitcoin for some time now. this event was more like the last straw kinda thing	[10:22]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.	[10:25]
kakobrekla	i dont think it did.	[10:25]
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assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 396 @ 0.00271748 = 1.0761 BTC [-] {2}	[10:29]
danielpbarron	i'm not interested in bitcoin if he's not interested in it	[10:32]
danielpbarron	it's not like the code is something wonderful to behold. The only thing it had going for it was that some important people found a use in it for a time	[10:34]
shinohai	Not a lord here, but I have a lot of time invested in trb and I agree with danielpbarron.	[10:34]
shinohai	Eventually one has to stop building with legos and mve on to more robust materials.	[10:35]
kakobrekla	actually this somewhat fixes "bitcoin is too accessible" as the requirements to include tx in a block are having your own block producing setup	[10:36]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: except - cartel. go, make a block.	[10:37]
kakobrekla	obv its not accessible to me!	[10:37]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.	[10:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00053591 = 17.2295 BTC [-] {4}	[10:38]
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asciilifeform	nubbins`: the point re: mpex is valid imho.	[10:39]
asciilifeform	it did not explain mircea_popescu's observations though	[10:40]
asciilifeform	gotta explain the resurrected tx, no?	[10:41]
asciilifeform	i saw same thing when sending a lee sedol bet a few wks ago	[10:41]
punkman	gotta explain why the 0fee tx wasn't visible in anyone's mempool for days, although I don't know how exactly mp examined the mempools and of which nodes he was connecting to	[10:42]
shinohai	Also has been seen by outside source according to: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47975	[10:42]
assbot	A Miner Problem \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4Gyyn )	[10:42]
asciilifeform	(and here was even the high-S thing also involved)	[10:42]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 02:49:05; nubbins`: advertising 0-fee tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack	[10:42]
punkman	the fact it was resurrected is not surprising if you ask me	[10:42]
asciilifeform	punkman: he has, iirc, a thing that tries to connect to 'anyone who's anyone' as determined by his intel	[10:43]
asciilifeform	punkman: i have nfi , ask him when he wakes up	[10:43]
asciilifeform	!s reactor test	[10:44]
assbot	2 results for 'reactor test' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=reactor+test	[10:44]
asciilifeform	^ see above.	[10:44]
punkman	anyway if someone can replicate the experiment with similarly old coins, that would not favor the bitbet-screwed-by-miners theory	[10:46]
jurov	i can offer coinbr users' coins for the experiments... seems using users' funds is en vogue	[10:48]
asciilifeform	one more thing. careful readers of the logz will have noticed that the cn miners have openly admitted collusion	[10:49]
asciilifeform	i.e. gatherings for whatever purpose	[10:49]
asciilifeform	all but the resurrection	[10:50]
asciilifeform	this was one of mp's accusations actually	[10:51]
asciilifeform	no?!	[10:52]
asciilifeform	that was his point, no? that the scum took over.	[10:52]
asciilifeform	try, make? except that spamola temperature seems to be low today	[10:54]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: most of them are spam	[10:54]
asciilifeform	and in fact chained crud	[10:54]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: how so?	[10:55]
asciilifeform	did it have unconfirmed inputs? No	[10:56]
asciilifeform	how does something that ~follows~ a tx make it spam?	[10:56]
asciilifeform	the usual way?	[10:57]
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asciilifeform	age of inputs ?	[10:58]
asciilifeform	i have nfi, btw, what the age was. did you look into it?	[10:58]
asciilifeform	sure. but do we have a reason to think this was done?	[10:59]
asciilifeform	if it actually had 'days old' input, then this was reactor test.	[10:59]
asciilifeform	but the resurrection still has to be explained.	[11:00]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[11:00]
davout	asciilifeform: any bitbet recipient had a strong incentive to rebroadcast, as soon as the second transaction actually paid them	[11:03]
davout	not sure what makes you say that the tx reappearing needs any kind of explanation other than "people like extra money"	[11:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31575 @ 0.00053402 = 16.8617 BTC [-] {2}	[11:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9474 @ 0.00053402 = 5.0593 BTC [-]	[11:15]
danielpbarron	asciilifeform> i have nfi, btw, what the age was. did you look into it? << http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47581	[11:16]
assbot	A Miner Problem \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1StXq1F )	[11:16]
danielpbarron	nubbins`> again, i could create 10k tx's right now with older inputs than A1 << isn't this a "glass canon" as in, can only be fired once? How many nubbins` are out there with cannons? It costs money to assemble this weapon in short order. You have it from years of doing business.	[11:18]
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shinohai	http://gizmodo.com/nyc-district-attorney-conducts-biased-unsecure-survey-1762948174	[11:29]
assbot	NYC District Attorney Conducts Biased, Unsecured Survey About How Encryption Hurts Police ... ( http://bit.ly/1StZgjh )	[11:30]
shinohai	"Anyone can access it and submit answers, which means that anyone can impersonate a police officer, prosecutor, or other law enforcement official."	[11:30]
danielpbarron	i'm just going by what you said	[11:35]
danielpbarron	that wasn't my implication. I meant "	[11:35]
danielpbarron	"how many nubbins`" in an endearing way	[11:36]
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danielpbarron	yes	[11:36]
danielpbarron	i suppose that there are plenty of groups, including miners, who would like to interfere with #bitcoin-assets properties	[11:37]
danielpbarron	if what i'm a part of isn't as big as my estimation, I don't care for bitcoin anyway. So whatever.	[11:38]
danielpbarron	you got your bouquinism and I got my Bible. I just hope other people have their things or it can get pretty depressing	[11:39]
danielpbarron	regarding this hypothesis that miners are socking away a percentage, why then do most coin bases have a single output?	[11:41]
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danielpbarron	as far as i know, the only pool taking advantage of the ability to create as many outputs as you want in a coin base is Luke-Jr's Eligius	[11:41]
danielpbarron	yeah but why not just do it in the first place? even older.	[11:42]
danielpbarron	well that's what Eligius does, or did last i looked into it	[11:43]
*	assbot gives voice to adlai	[11:43]
davout	danielpbarron: just because Luke-Jr does it doesn't necessarily make it sensible	[11:44]
adlai	p2pool does this, too	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	and welcome to the wonder of halfway logs. sigh.	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	davout whatever happened to xeur bot yest	[11:44]
gribble	sounds like you thought this whole ignore thing through about as much as you thought through your cartel conspiracy	[11:44]
davout	danielpbarron: also splitting coinbases directly hurts the miner's bottom line	[11:44]
gribble	enjoy following the convo	[11:44]
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adlai	splitting coinbases only makes sense for pools which actually have multiple workers	[11:45]
adlai	(in which case, it helps the bottom line, sparing the cost of payout txen)	[11:46]
davout	mircea_popescu: not sure what you're referring to?	[11:46]
mircea_popescu	!s marketmaking from:jurov	[11:46]
assbot	5 results for 'marketmaking from:jurov' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=marketmaking+from%3Ajurov	[11:46]
davout	mircea_popescu: these weren't me	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	...	[11:47]
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davout	bot was down last night too obviously	[11:49]
danielpbarron	you got a blog, go investigate the age of flood inputs and write it up; i'll read it	[11:50]
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mircea_popescu	hence my question :)	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	jurov approved.	[11:52]
danielpbarron	nubbins`, you should write it up for the sake of changing the minds of people who are so far not impressed with your unsubstantiated claims in the channel	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	check it out, 3 minute inclusion.	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	this is novel, even for 600byte txn with above-average fees and 10^10 size inputs aged halfyear+	[11:57]
trinque	who the fuck cares what amuses you, and how does that illuminate the issue?	[11:59]
trinque	this level of discourse is what's shameful.	[11:59]
mircea_popescu	so yes, for the sake of keeping the record straight - it is not possible for miners to include my (high-S, btw!) txn in blocks within 2:55 if in fact running a chain head delayed reporting scheme. either it got turned off or it never existed in the first place, anyone's call.	[12:00]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.	[12:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00053622 = 5.818 BTC [+]	[12:02]
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trinque	regardless, it's a fine way to go forward.	[12:09]
trinque	I've read all the l0gz	[12:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15773 @ 0.00053402 = 8.4231 BTC [-]	[12:09]
*	MobGod (~Mob@unaffiliated/mobgod) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	adlai there's some historical charge in there : bitcoin's first and largest ponzi ran a "mining" whatever, for the obvious and transparent purpose of acquiring freshly minted coins to pay out the idiot "investors". this was a major contributor to the early crystalisation of what came to be known later as "mining pools" which is what eventually in due time coallesced into today's problem. whether it was avoidable at all	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	or not is dubious, but that aside pirate's gpumax certainly played a major early role.	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	people didn't use to split coinbases because they preferred to sell them, for 103% or w/e.	[12:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13027 @ 0.00053399 = 6.9563 BTC [-] {2}	[12:11]
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shinohai	!s S.BBET february statement	[12:19]
assbot	2 results for 'S.BBET february statement' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=S.BBET+february+statement	[12:19]
hanbot	nubbins' your projectile posturing isn't particularly useful. mp told you, i count two? three times? yest how to form your thoughts into something reviewable.	[12:21]
trinque	this is what I meant about the level of discourse. I have not declared myself a "fan" of anything.	[12:21]
hanbot	you fucked that up, what, you figure more spewing is the answer?	[12:21]
trinque	there is a scientific way to criticize a claim.	[12:21]
*	dooglus_ is now known as dooglus	[12:26]
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*	assbot gives voice to dooglus	[12:30]
danielpbarron	hi dooglus	[12:31]
dooglus	hi	[12:31]
dooglus	I was looking at trb, and trying to sync it from my bitcoin core node	[12:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37083 @ 0.00053694 = 19.9113 BTC [+] {3}	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	-addnode ?	[12:32]
dooglus	I notice core won't talk to it for long before cutting it off	[12:32]
dooglus	is this a known issue?	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	what version is this ?	[12:32]
dooglus	it has a lot of 9's	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	no, the "core"	[12:33]
dooglus	"receive version message: /therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/: version 99999" and - um - 0.12?	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	hm. and you have these two running on the same machine, or within a local net ?	[12:34]
dooglus	core doesn't like messages bigger than 2MB, and trb sends ~7MB messages	[12:34]
dooglus	that's why it's getting disconnected. both on the same machine	[12:34]
mircea_popescu	something which may be related if not outright this is known here as blackholing	[12:34]
mircea_popescu	!s blackholed	[12:34]
assbot	24 results for 'blackholed' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=blackholed	[12:34]
dooglus	(with -port and -rpcport, on separate users)	[12:34]
mircea_popescu	it'd be interesting if you managed to reproduce it in the lab.	[12:34]
trinque	could also be the malleus patch if that version of prb issues heathen commands	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	mod6 trinque asciilifeform ^ prob of interest.	[12:35]
dooglus	see main.cpp: int nLimit = 500 /* + locator.GetDistanceBack() */ ;	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	trinque but he said it cuts the other way.	[12:35]
dooglus	commenting out that part fixed it for me - they talk happily now	[12:35]
trinque	ah	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	!rated dooglus	[12:35]
assbot	You have not rated dooglus.	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	no wai ?!	[12:35]
dooglus	GetDistanceBack() is huge, causing it to try requesting 100k's of headers at once	[12:36]
dooglus	you unpersoned me because CLAM	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	!rate dooglus 2 ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing.	[12:36]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/95b0d7d96dadf30f	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.dooglus.2:3c6c25e386479486e1de0e81ec42ca24bfd40f96aa16d1252b39ca9e7d5e8af3	[12:36]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of 2 for dooglus with note: ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing.	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	utter pity what happened to jd.	[12:37]
dooglus	oh, I was also wondering - is it normal that the trb build process downloads and builds the linux kernel?	[12:39]
dooglus	'cos it did...	[12:39]
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trinque	dooglus: yep, it is using buildroot to have a deterministic build environment	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	!up TrueBanker	[12:39]
-assbot-	You voiced TrueBanker for 30 minutes.	[12:39]
*	assbot gives voice to TrueBanker	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	dooglus yeah. it's fully encapsulated, initial idea was to run it on pogos.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	well.. actually that's still the idea, just we ended up running around with all sorts of subquests that turned mainline.	[12:40]
shinohai	I still have faith that one day my pogo will sing.	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	i sitll have crates of the things in storage that will one day sing.	[12:42]
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assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )	[12:43]
dooglus	nubbins`: yes, I believe so. this appears to fix it: http://dpaste.com/0FFDMQT	[12:43]
assbot	dpaste: 0FFDMQT ... ( http://bit.ly/1Suc0WT )	[12:43]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Suc1u5 )	[12:43]
deedbot-	[Trilema] Eulora auction, March 13th - http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-auction-march-13th/	[12:43]
shinohai	mircea_popescu: I wound up buying 3 thanks to mats, had considered more lol	[12:43]
hanbot	nubbins' what again? didn't you just bitch at someone over not giving a link to what they claim happened? take a breather, preferably a long one, and figure your own shit out. you're smelling.	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	fortunately with that asshole mp killing moore's law, not terrible danger of pogos ever not being worth the 10 bux or w/e they cost.	[12:45]
shinohai	lol	[12:45]
*	linton_s_dawson (linton_s_d@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-rutnkdrcvhhalzbm) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:45]
hanbot	jesus already. get lost.	[12:45]
assbot	S.BBET last 3000@0.00008301 ... ( http://bit.ly/1SucmwO )	[12:45]
dooglus	see commit 85ea8b4f4380dac803d43cd0b7829b107cc09e38 in core : "Limit getheaders to a hard 2000" - fixes the issue there	[12:47]
*	joesmoe has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	well... really, it CREATES an issue.	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	it just turned a mild magic number ("get all the headers no less than 2000) into a fucking protocol limit. "only get 2k". this is utter nonsense.	[12:47]
gribble	http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ creates an issue	[12:47]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	and any "node" running that crap is ipso facto and for this non-compliant with bitcoin	[12:48]
dooglus	this isn't creating the protocol limit of 2MB - that's elsewhere	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	of course not.	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	this is breaking bitcoin in some other edge.	[12:48]
danielpbarron	nubbins`, http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/deedbot	[12:49]
assbot	irc_bots:deedbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1NQw0l8 )	[12:49]
assbot	#bitcoin-assets rules and regulations on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1k32ZX6 )	[12:49]
dooglus	but ... but ... the protocol is whatever core does! didn't you hear?	[12:49]
mircea_popescu	never heard.	[12:49]
mircea_popescu	possibly on account of all the heralds of that idiocy getting shot.	[12:49]
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trinque	nubbins`: got an axe to grind with everyone now?	[12:50]
*	shinohai pops popcorn.	[12:50]
*	MobGod is now known as Mob	[12:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22709 @ 0.00053452 = 12.1384 BTC [-]	[12:54]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424721 << this is not actually correct, it should build only gcc and toolchain, then trb.	[12:56]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 15:38:44; dooglus: oh, I was also wondering - is it normal that the trb build process downloads and builds the linux kernel?	[12:56]
asciilifeform	something likely went wrong with his buildroot bringup.	[12:57]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424728 << if we plug the 1) blockindex crap (see logz) and 2) idiot tx-sticks-around-forever leaks - pogos sing.	[12:58]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 15:40:39; shinohai: I still have faith that one day my pogo will sing.	[12:58]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424731 << how this will be settled ? pistols at dawn ? gladiators ?	[13:00]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 15:43:08; nubbins`: mircea_popescu, kakobrekla : http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform which blockindex was this ?	[13:00]
shinohai	Nothing says Republic like gladitorial combat! :D	[13:01]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: my experiment where i determined that :	[13:01]
asciilifeform	!s 300 bytes	[13:01]
assbot	4 results for '300 bytes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=300+bytes	[13:01]
asciilifeform	this was the smaller leak. in the sense where i quantified it ~exactly~, algebraically.	[13:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14562 @ 0.00053523 = 7.794 BTC [+] {2}	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	ah ah	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	unbound memory yeah.	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	;;bc,stats	[13:02]
gribble	Current Blocks: 401587 \| Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 \| Next Difficulty In: 1612 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 36 minutes, and 0 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 300 * 401587	[13:02]
gribble	120476100	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	that's a large pogo rigt there.	[13:02]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: recall eatblock ?	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	yeah	[13:03]
asciilifeform	i created it for this test.	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	anyway. 2 has a much more obvious solution, if as discussed not exactly trivial and wtf are fibonacci stacks.	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	this however - you will conceivably need some sort of block indexing mechanism.	[13:03]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421938	[13:04]
assbot	Logged on 04-03-2016 19:57:56; asciilifeform: http://staff.ustc.edu.cn/~csli/graduate/algorithms/book6/chap21.htm	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	i meant it figuratively!	[13:04]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: permanently parking things in ram is retarded.	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	well it's certainly voiding the warranty, as that's not what the ram is for.	[13:04]
asciilifeform	ram exists as cache of disk.	[13:04]
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mircea_popescu	(imagine, as a subtopic, the wonder of computing if hardware came with guarantee "unless used for uinappropiate purpose" and then coders had to write code that didn't void any warranties.)	[13:05]
*	assbot gives voice to PeterL	[13:05]
asciilifeform	if warranties were still a thing.	[13:06]
asciilifeform	they sorta died away when hardware became largely disposable crud.	[13:06]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: imho the shareholders have a legit complaint re: the reactor test, and ought to be told why/what/etc. but i'm not a s.bbet shareholder, and nobody asked me (tm) etc.	[13:07]
PeterL	for the record, I agree with nubbins` about bitbet transction	[13:08]
asciilifeform	i'm wondering if mircea_popescu is not in a position similar to the familiar murder mystery detective, where he ~knows~ that dr. evil did the deed, but cannot prove.	[13:08]
asciilifeform	(or cannot prove without blowing up a glass cannon)	[13:09]
*	asciilifeform goes and reads the bbet broadcast	[13:10]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: were you heare for the onetimepad thread ?	[13:10]
asciilifeform	*here	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	the shareholders can have all the legit complaints they want, about anything that happens whatsoever. we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya about our legit complaints that bitcoin doesn't work, and we would like it to, and it should be fixed by other people at their expense so we can continue our lifestyle undeterred. meanwhile - nonvoting shares can be sold, and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it.	[13:10]
PeterL	mircea_popescu made a stupid mistake, and now he makes the shareholders pay for it	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	and i suppose i'm going to have my own legit complaints about how much this thing costs to run, and start billing by the hour, and in fiat, and the legit complainers can run off to the bank with their bitcoin and pay, or somesuch nonsense.	[13:11]
gribble	don't like fraud? sell your shares	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	PeterL when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it. there are exactly no exceptions to this rule, nor will there ever be. morever, even when what the ceo does isn't a stupid mistake, the shareholders still pay for it.	[13:12]
gribble	don't like fraud? shut the fuck up or i'll vastly inflate expenses	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	this is the definition of these terms.	[13:12]
PeterL	and when the ceo of a company consitently makes mistakes, he gets fired	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	by all means. hence, " and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it."	[13:13]
asciilifeform	where is kakobrekla ? i thought he was ceo of bbet ?	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the way it worked, from the beginning, was that he did the site and i did admin and payouts.	[13:14]
asciilifeform	ah	[13:14]
PeterL	nubbins` yes	[13:17]
dooglus	I'm new to this whole bitbet payout mess, but read somewhere that the 'B' transaction was made after receiving advice to do so. Who advised it, and why?	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	wasn't publicly shared.	[13:18]
dooglus	oh, ok	[13:18]
mircea_popescu	but the somewhere'd be prolly qntra i'd guess.	[13:18]
asciilifeform	from the sturles thread, i learned that most idiot nodes are set up to ignore what they think is 'double spend' on purely chronological what-i-saw-first grounds. and mircea_popescu was mighty pissed, and i also (to me, this was new, i do not habitually track prbism)	[13:19]
dooglus	I expect so. I was also trying to find the 16% referenced in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421022	[13:19]
assbot	Logged on 03-03-2016 16:18:56; mircea_popescu: in any case, at the time this was discussed in the logs, the miner priority was in the 9th decile, about 16% of the global mempool.	[13:19]
PeterL	there is no spec, they can order transactions in whichever way they want	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	this is a minor point. there are better bits. such as - that an transaction known but not advertised constitutes the simple definition of "transaction withholding".	[13:19]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b138	[13:19]
mircea_popescu	also a minor point, but at least relevant re protocol discussion.	[13:20]
dooglus	because it seems unlikely to be true. A1 had an uncommonly high priority, way over 100 million	[13:20]
PeterL	nubbins` I guess bitbet is not keeping a 100% reserve of bets now?	[13:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: imho the relevant bit here is that we (at least i) do not know ~who~ withheld it, and then exhumed and transmitted it, and why	[13:20]
asciilifeform	it could have easily been a node operator.	[13:20]
asciilifeform	when mircea_popescu said 'miners' i assumed he had intelligence pointing in that direction.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	initially i thought that "nodes" is a meaningful term, but what i see now is a large ball of node with a bunch of sattelites that have ~ no importance flattering themselves into thinking they're part of a network.	[13:21]
PeterL	so B should not be counted against bitbets funds if it was not bitbet money	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	sort-of like us electoral process works.	[13:21]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i thought this was quite apparent long ago	[13:22]
asciilifeform	ball of node + dryer lint	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	besides the point - it is a factual matter now.	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	somehow the difference between this and that keeps getting elided.	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	as if everyone's a little bit everything and it all evens out or something, dunno.	[13:23]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: consider this:	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact.	[13:24]
asciilifeform	you are on a nuke sub. captain, having been informed by six different crew members that reactor coolant has been replaced with pisswater, and the valve gaskets - with chewing gum, gives in to the temptation to run a test.	[13:25]
PeterL	the qntra article is illogical and jumps to the conclusion you want, ignoring the simplest explanation	[13:25]
asciilifeform	the thing begins to melt.	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	PeterL this statement would be a lot less ridiculous had the "simplest explanation" been actually formed as the article even encourages the reader to do!	[13:25]
asciilifeform	want to fight with captain? pump bilgewater to cool down the rods ?	[13:25]
asciilifeform	i have nfi. i'm not even on the sub.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	but, time's not wasted, go forth and write down your proposed simplest explanation.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	with any luck it'll be something like "miner cartel, what a ridiculous idea - not like the anon derps involved are a) known to be idiots and b) have certain incentive do do exactly this! moreover, the much simpler explanation is that... uh... uh... mp conspiracy! and scam! and fraud! and he doesn't care about bitcoin! and i'm an idiot that'll show him!!11"	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	wtf is this shit even.	[13:27]
PeterL	can you not see sturle's comment, seems the most logical to me?	[13:28]
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mircea_popescu	we discussed this that same day he made it. plox to check your copy of the logs.	[13:28]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.	[13:28]
PeterL	0fee txn, nodes hold onto it (but don't rebroadcast), later when backlog is smaller they broadcast it	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	congrats, you've formed a theory about a selection of the facts on record.	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	wanna try for the whole thing ?	[13:30]
PeterL	and "the code is the spec", so the spec says first txn see overrides any later (regardless of fees)	[13:30]
PeterL	which facts does it miss?	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	it also says txn get thrown out of pools after x days.	[13:30]
PeterL	how do you know?	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	PeterL they're in the qntra piece.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	how do YOU know what the code says ?	[13:30]
PeterL	did you go look into the mempool of every node?	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	i looked into whatever i looked sufficient to satisfy myself.	[13:31]
PeterL	it would only take one node holding onto the txn for it to be rebroadcast	[13:31]
mircea_popescu	and instamined.	[13:32]
kakobrekla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424891 < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think.	[13:32]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 16:24:11; mircea_popescu: but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact.	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla it does not tell everyone what "i think", it tells everyone what i saw.	[13:32]
PeterL	and maybe that node was connected when you broadcast the first time, turned off, and reconnected 8 days later, at which point it rebroadcast the txn?	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	but, sure, "experience of that fraction of bitbet that does payouts", is right.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	PeterL possibly, sure.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	also trivially meets the definition of "withholding txn", but w/e.	[13:33]
PeterL	withholding txn, sitting on txn, not the same thing	[13:34]
gribble	no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill a hat.	[13:34]
dooglus	maybe that node was connected when you broadcast the first time, turned off, and reconnected 8 days later << or maybe one of the winners of the bet saw he had been paid and rebroadcast A1 so he could get paid again; that seems like the most obvious motivation for rebroadcasting A1	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	also possible.	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	HOW did they see it ?	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	at that time, it was yet invisible.	[13:35]
PeterL	what was invisible?	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	~nobody saw it, somehow, hence questions about bitbet payouts.	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	A1.	[13:35]
dooglus	the winners wouldn't have seen A1 vanish after 48h or whatever the mempool lifetime is; for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them	[13:35]
PeterL	A1 you sent out to the world, everybody listening saw it	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	except nobody did, somehow.	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	this is integral.	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	see, the problem with assumptions is - making them.	[13:36]
dooglus	everyone you sent it to saw it. Didn't you broadcast it to ~100 nodes?	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	i thought i had, yes.	[13:37]
PeterL	mircea_popescu you seem to be making some big assumptions and plugging your ears whenever anybody questions them	[13:37]
dooglus	they won't tell you they saw it - it was 0 fee, so won't be relayed to anyone	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	depends what code they run, but this could well be.	[13:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40962 @ 0.00053446 = 21.8926 BTC [-]	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	so far, we're with the assumption that "bettor with incentive was running one or more of the nodes mp connected to".	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	this - should be given a %.	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	as it isn't, per your theory, the case that "Whole world saw". just the set in question.	[13:39]
gribble	remove bettor from the statement, it's falsely constricting	[13:39]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b139	[13:39]
dooglus	"bettor" could be replaced by "anyone who wants to fuck MP over" I guess if you want to increase the probability somewhat	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	well... if it's not a bettor then "for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them" doesn't stick anymore.	[13:40]
PeterL	so there are what, 23 outputs or so? and it would take just one of them seeing the txn to hold onto it	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	all the outputs go to bet winners.	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	let's move on to the next step. THEN, MP broadcast A2, which HAD a fee. to a non-overlapping set of nodes. the disjunction of the two sets had a perfectly valid txn they... also didn't broadcast, because magic reasons.	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	and then we do this a coupla more times, and so on.	[13:43]
PeterL	well, there is probably a large overlap between bettors and people running nodes, since these are people who have an interest in the bitcoin network working so they can get paid	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	by this measure, there's a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure.	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	anyway, ima bbl.	[13:44]
*	joesmoe_ (~joesmoe@201.216.206.41) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:45]
dooglus	if A1 and A2 went to non-overlapping sets of nodes then A2 should have been accepted and mined, right?	[13:46]
PeterL	by this measure, there's a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure. << it only takes one, and I bet and have a node, therefore it might have been me too	[13:47]
*	joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[13:47]
PeterL	so maybe it was you!	[13:47]
PeterL	maybe just never send 0fee txn, because customer payouts should be a priority?	[13:48]
dooglus	I suspect that's the client's fault - used to be that high-priority inputs meant you didn't need a fee	[13:48]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: my current hypothesis is that he did not intend a reactor test, but simply allowed the transmitter to calculate a default fee, which turned out to be 0, and sent.	[13:49]
PeterL	but how is mircea_popescu going to address the concerns if he ignores the people who raise them?	[13:49]
PeterL	asciilifeform but sending the second txn was pure idiocy, since he had no way of knowing the first would not also be mined	[13:50]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: this is not true, see the onetimepad thread, mp admitted that he made an arithmetical mistake once !	[13:50]
adlai	nubbins`: couldn't the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don't belong to s.bbet	[13:50]
asciilifeform	PeterL: what, i am curious, would you have done ?	[13:50]
asciilifeform	so he sends A1, and notices that it is in limbo.	[13:51]
asciilifeform	now what.	[13:51]
PeterL	well, either wait for the first transactio	[13:51]
asciilifeform	or what?	[13:51]
asciilifeform	didn't he ?	[13:51]
PeterL	or double spend the outputs (and get a miner to include) before sending txn B	[13:51]
asciilifeform	and then do what? eat pistol ?	[13:52]
asciilifeform	what was bbet (or mircea_popescu at the console, or imagine youself there instead) do instead ?	[13:52]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i thought your objection was precisely to a4	[13:52]
PeterL	but in any case not send txn B until txn A has been resolved	[13:52]
asciilifeform	where he had to use mysterymeat input of his own	[13:52]
asciilifeform	anyway i have no idea if mircea_popescu send the 'doubles' because he was pissed and mashing keys, or if he forgot that most of the node network is run by imbeciles who go by chronology to 'resolve doublespend', or what. ask him, not me.	[13:54]
*	adlai tries rebroadcasting http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425031	[13:54]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 16:50:24; adlai: nubbins`: couldn't the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don't belong to s.bbet	[13:54]
davout	were A2, A3, A4 ever published?	[13:54]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: what does the listing agreement say re: what to do, as a shareholder, if you think mp has been afflicted by martian brain parasites and broke the agreement ?	[13:55]
adlai	nubbins`: it does change the picture from "fraud! abdication! blood of tyrants!" to "mp made a mistake when acting as coin-handler for a corporation"	[13:55]
assbot	The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LamWrs )	[13:56]
PeterL	nubbins` payout from inputs is good for transparency, but it would be perfectly legitimate for bitbet to send all funds to one address and then make all payouts from the same address	[13:56]
kakobrekla	davout afaik no.	[13:57]
*	adlai is fairly certain bitbet has been "mixing bets" for ~ever. isn't this how the whole "bitbet as tumbler" story was supposed to work? ie, the blockchain tells a different story than the addresses listed on the site	[13:57]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424487 << ORPHAN!	[13:57]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 13:36:34; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: except - cartel. go, make a block.	[13:57]
kakobrekla	BingoBoingo show me.	[13:57]
BingoBoingo	kakobrekla: Might take a while...	[13:58]
kakobrekla	Thats what they said for Jesus.	[13:59]
davout	kakobrekla: pls to do so, i'm looking through my nodes logs to see if and when i heard about them	[14:00]
PeterL	and by the way, how did we jump to the conclusion that the collusion is from "Chinese miners"? (And why is the disclaimer on bitbet so tiny and discreet?)	[14:00]
kakobrekla	davout i dont have that information.	[14:01]
PeterL	kakobrekla is there an estimated timeframe for when bet payouts will resume?	[14:02]
asciilifeform	PeterL: i have nfi how mircea_popescu concluded that miners were involved. the only clue i have is that it has recently come out that the top cn miners have formed a derp committee of some kind, apparently for purposes of negotiated separate peace with the enemy	[14:02]
davout	;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425061	[14:02]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[14:02]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 16:53:56; davout: were A2, A3, A4 ever published?	[14:02]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i ~really~, very much, hate the miners. but i do not have the smoking gun that tells us that they were at fault.	[14:03]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu's observations best fit the 'there is no longer a reliable network' model.	[14:03]
asciilifeform	rather than 'miner cartel' model.	[14:04]
kakobrekla	asciilifeform there never was.	[14:04]
thestringpuller	nubbins`: "Why is Bush so convinced Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?" Negrodamus: "Because he has the receipt."	[14:04]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: mircea_popescu sent the first tx. noticed that it has apparently vanished from the fact of the earth. what is the thing to do in that case ?	[14:04]
asciilifeform	*face of	[14:05]
thestringpuller	^-patience?	[14:05]
davout	asciilifeform: do a double spend, manage to get a conflicting tx mined	[14:05]
asciilifeform	davout: which is what he did ?	[14:05]
davout	asciilifeform: no, the tx he sent was not conflicting	[14:05]
jurov	asciilifeform: why was he ever sending zerofee tx?	[14:05]
asciilifeform	davout: 'A second transaction was broadcast, spending the same inputs as A1, including a fee of 0.0001'	[14:06]
PeterL	nubbins`> go to qntra article and see how long it takes for someone to even MENTION the obvious cheapo explanation << if you look at the timestamps, it was just a couple hours before we started complaining, which was pretty much as soon as I got around to reading the article in question	[14:06]
davout	asciilifeform: it's the "manage to get mined" that's the important bit here	[14:06]
asciilifeform	seems to me like he did a reasonable thing, which is to transmit a doublspend with moar fee	[14:06]
asciilifeform	but forgot that the network is now run by aggressive imbeciles	[14:06]
asciilifeform	who will drop the tx on the floor	[14:06]
kakobrekla	asciilifeform certainly not sign more parallel transactions to same effect and broadcast them like nothing happened	[14:06]
asciilifeform	but what instead ?	[14:07]
davout	asciilifeform: try harder?	[14:08]
kakobrekla	asciilifeform see the agreed upon solution for future bets payouts	[14:08]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: from the statement ?	[14:08]
kakobrekla	asciilifeform yes.	[14:08]
davout	bbl	[14:08]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: it sounds reasonable. except that i suspect that most of the users will cry, 'how do i transmit a tx?111 waaah'	[14:08]
kakobrekla	i dont think this will be a problem. notice the 'double-check' guy from comments.	[14:10]
kakobrekla	nubbins` re 0 fee ; see first few lines http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47629	[14:11]
assbot	A Miner Problem \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/24BzVIP )	[14:11]
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asciilifeform	[02:07:54] [mircea_popescu] ALL these ~happened~ to somehow drop out of mempools ? << from the document << later we learn that prb DROPS what it deems 'doublespend' SOLELY based on chronology.	[14:12]
asciilifeform	which handily explains why A2-A4 vanished.	[14:13]
PeterL	does trb do replace by fee?	[14:14]
asciilifeform	PeterL: what's that ?	[14:14]
kakobrekla	'replace by fee' is a new thing that has not been ported	[14:14]
PeterL	if trb sees A1 and A2, which does it keep?	[14:14]
PeterL	(A1 is 0fee, A2 has fee, same inputs)	[14:15]
asciilifeform	hm	[14:16]
asciilifeform	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0844	[14:16]
assbot	Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1LaoiSM )	[14:16]
asciilifeform	^ apparently whichever it sees 1st.	[14:16]
asciilifeform	which is a bug.	[14:16]
BingoBoingo	'replace by fee' USED to be how double spends were typically resolved by miner implementations	[14:16]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: incidentally i have nfi what mpb does, i have never seen it and don't expect to	[14:16]
PeterL	maybe mircea_popescu can tell us how his own implementation works?	[14:17]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i fully expected that mircea_popescu would cover the 17 from the coin stuck in his toenails	[14:17]
asciilifeform	but i have nfi, i'm not his mother, cannot answer why he does things! l0l!	[14:18]
PeterL	asciilifeform I was suprised when he decided to stick it onto bitbet's books	[14:18]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: it is possible that mircea_popescu is holding a drill.	[14:20]
asciilifeform	in his place, i would do it regularly	[14:20]
PeterL	If I send a txn to the addresses listed on a bitbet page, will that expense be put on the bitbet books too?	[14:20]
PeterL	asciilifeform a scammer drill? to see if we call out an negrate scammers in a timely fasion?	[14:21]
PeterL	and if we blindly follow him then he knows we are all derps?	[14:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50243 @ 0.00053577 = 26.9187 BTC [+] {2}	[14:22]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-03-2016#1423312 << see also.	[14:22]
assbot	Logged on 05-03-2016 22:35:15; asciilifeform: except i admit that i only expected 'this' to happen after cia murdered mircea_popescu and took his coin...	[14:22]
PeterL	it's mostly mircea_popescu and asciilifeform bickering back and forth?	[14:22]
PeterL	are Canadians allowed to talk about each other so impolitely?	[14:24]
PeterL	each of us have our warts	[14:25]
trinque	I don't get these shots at mod6; he wrote up a fine guide to building a gentoo...	[14:26]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: when you were a boy, didja ever lead a band of other boys to raise hell ?	[14:27]
asciilifeform	do you recall how it's generally done ?	[14:28]
thestringpuller	a clockwork orange this is not	[14:28]
asciilifeform	or, similar example, do you know how famous sov. circus trainer kuklachev trained housecats to perform ?	[14:28]
PeterL	figure out which way they are running, jump in front and say "this way, boys!"?	[14:28]
asciilifeform	PeterL: not quite.	[14:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21298 @ 0.00053763 = 11.4504 BTC [+] {2}	[14:29]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i dun think he needs the parroting for anything	[14:29]
asciilifeform	it is like the vroom of a racing engine	[14:29]
asciilifeform	yes, it goes with the engine.	[14:29]
asciilifeform	but it does not move the car.	[14:29]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: fwiw pete_dushenski and i are not huge fans of one another.	[14:30]
thestringpuller	all this before civil war II	[14:31]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: why piece of shit? i think he's a snore, and he - likely thinks i am a snore. but why the mega-rage, l0l	[14:31]
asciilifeform	afaik pete_dushenski is this canadian fella who likes to race cars, and also occasionally reads the logz and writes summaries, in something like stalin's radio caster (levitan) voice.	[14:32]
asciilifeform	i don't much care for them, myself.	[14:33]
asciilifeform	i got enough of that as a kid.	[14:33]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: do you actually think he was trying to personally fleece you ?	[14:34]
asciilifeform	(or anybody ?)	[14:34]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu works as a pope.	[14:34]
asciilifeform	does nubbins` understand why this is a painful job ?	[14:34]
asciilifeform	aha.	[14:34]
asciilifeform	they ~are~.	[14:34]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: recall the quantum computer thread ?	[14:35]
BingoBoingo	http://www.kuklachev.ru/eng/repertoir/2/	[14:36]
assbot	Moscow Cats Theatre - Repertoir ... ( http://bit.ly/1nrH3FX )	[14:36]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1402247	[14:37]
assbot	Logged on 10-02-2016 17:08:22; mircea_popescu: alowing the possibility that this scam is actually worth taking seriously costs the people who follow what i say whatever it may cost them.	[14:37]
asciilifeform	nubbins` ^	[14:37]
asciilifeform	being pope is not easy.	[14:38]
asciilifeform	he can't simply say 'oops!'	[14:38]
asciilifeform	l0l me?	[14:39]
asciilifeform	well that is my current understanding.	[14:39]
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asciilifeform	what does kakobrekla have to say ?	[14:40]
asciilifeform	i dun think kakobrekla is congentalyl capable of worry	[14:41]
asciilifeform	he had that muscle removed in the war.	[14:41]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i'ma wait for mircea_popescu to wake up and admit he was conducting a drill.	[14:42]
asciilifeform	http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning << as per.	[14:42]
assbot	The Hour Of Reckoning on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Laq9r0 )	[14:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7032 @ 0.00053633 = 3.7715 BTC [-] {2}	[14:43]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: idk, if this carries on, i might have to take up his offer and visit in person (and perhaps disappear into whatever gulag they put the real mircea_popescu in !1111)	[14:43]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: you did not complain when mine was late ?	[14:44]
asciilifeform	read it, it's up	[14:45]
thestringpuller	it has a $200 expense for phuctor	[14:46]
thestringpuller	that will be recurrin	[14:46]
asciilifeform	anyway nubbins` i srsly have nfi why the 17 was put in as bitbet expense, ask mircea_popescu, i'm not his mother.	[14:46]
asciilifeform	and yes if i were bbet shareholder i'd be going ???.	[14:47]
asciilifeform	but i;m not.	[14:47]
asciilifeform	if i had to guess (why?) - say - drill.	[14:47]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: Are you familiar with the Dark Knight Returns?	[14:48]
asciilifeform	nope.	[14:48]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i think you did a perfectly fine job of putting the argument in the logz.	[14:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35400 @ 0.00053446 = 18.9199 BTC [-] {2}	[14:50]
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*	shinohai waves at #b-a from his hot air balloon powered by todays logs.	[14:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33792 @ 0.00053402 = 18.0456 BTC [-] {3}	[15:00]
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PeterL	anybody want to guess as to whether one of the winning bets on the JebBush bet was owned by mircea_popescu? who got the extra 7btc payment?	[15:05]
PeterL	yes, large late bets are common, but it could be mp doing it	[15:08]
PeterL	just saying	[15:08]
assbot	BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2014 :: 1.18 B (8%) on Yes, 14.07 B (92%) on No \| closed 1 year 5 months ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1LarJZV )	[15:09]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22496 @ 0.00053357 = 12.0032 BTC [-]	[15:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25804 @ 0.00053357 = 13.7682 BTC [-]	[15:31]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00053357 = 10.9649 BTC [-]	[15:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00053342 = 30.9917 BTC [-] {3}	[15:47]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00053332 = 2.4533 BTC [-]	[15:55]
jurov	!rate nubbins` 2 voice of sanity	[16:00]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0a8571dc1513d7d0	[16:00]
jurov	!v assbot:jurov.rate.nubbins`.2:e0d6b842084c5b88117ec108fc92582260506c5b83c14a923a960458fb9655fb	[16:01]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of 2 for nubbins` with note: voice of sanity	[16:01]
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deedbot-	[Qntra] Google Tries Juicing Ad Sales WIth Appeal To Vanity - http://qntra.net/2016/03/google-tries-juicing-ad-sales-with-appeal-to-vanity/	[16:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00053357 = 2.5078 BTC [+]	[16:15]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30807 @ 0.00053357 = 16.4377 BTC [+]	[16:36]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00053357 = 11.5251 BTC [+]	[16:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3023 @ 0.00053332 = 1.6122 BTC [-]	[16:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50129 @ 0.00053332 = 26.7348 BTC [-]	[16:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44783 @ 0.00053329 = 23.8823 BTC [-] {4}	[16:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00053357 = 21.6629 BTC [+]	[17:07]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00053357 = 1.7074 BTC [+]	[17:13]
asciilifeform	so i reread the log, and,	[17:18]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424835 << is important point.	[17:18]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 16:12:01; mircea_popescu: PeterL when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it. there are exactly no exceptions to this rule, nor will there ever be. morever, even when what the ceo does isn't a stupid mistake, the shareholders still pay for it.	[17:18]
asciilifeform	if mircea_popescu pulled the reactor control rods out because he had a drink too many, the shareholders, per the spec, have precisely two options - to forgive him, or to sell	[17:19]
asciilifeform	as far as i can tell.	[17:19]
asciilifeform	and this is not a mega-surprise, it is quite how the 'separation between the man and the uniform' thing works.	[17:21]
asciilifeform	there is nothing in the bbet listing concerning 'if officer blows up the reactor, he will pay for it out of his lunch money'	[17:22]
asciilifeform	because we are not in the soviet air force.	[17:22]
asciilifeform	aha	[17:23]
asciilifeform	there is.	[17:23]
asciilifeform	actually i have no idea where B came from	[17:24]
asciilifeform	perhaps it was freshly-incoming bbet meat.	[17:24]
asciilifeform	or change. or whatnot.	[17:24]
asciilifeform	well in that case it wouldn't be 'his own money', but legit operating meat, no?	[17:24]
asciilifeform	why ponzi ?	[17:24]
asciilifeform	i dun get it	[17:24]
jurov	i'm rather curious if the point 3.2d was fullfilled, i.e. kakobrekla agreed with whole crapolade	[17:25]
jurov	?	[17:25]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.11995078 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b141	[17:25]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: recall, mircea_popescu said something to the effect of that he was putting out a fire.	[17:26]
asciilifeform	with whatever was in reach.	[17:26]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 16:31:53; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424891 < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think.	[17:26]
jurov	well, we have breach of conract then	[17:27]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1424847 << suggests that it was not 'behind back' but the normal operation of bbet	[17:27]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 16:13:55; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the way it worked, from the beginning, was that he did the site and i did admin and payouts.	[17:27]
kakobrekla	asciilifeform things of far lesser importance were normally discussed by 'the board'.	[17:28]
jurov	but i wouldn't call it ponzi, at least till bitbet has equity	[17:28]
asciilifeform	i admit that i don't see the ponzi aspect here.	[17:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36014 @ 0.00053448 = 19.2488 BTC [+] {4}	[17:31]
asciilifeform	i am also sympathetic to the argument that the currency chair broke when he sat down on it and wtf.	[17:31]
asciilifeform	so chair collapsed and he grabbed whatever pipe was within reach.	[17:31]
jurov	stfu you redditor!!11	[17:32]
asciilifeform	anyway i have nfi, will let mircea_popescu explain whether his chair collapsed, which pipe, if any, he grabbed, what kind of reactor coolant came out, etc.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	rather than trying to telepath.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	which i am not any good at.	[17:32]
*	Xuthus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[17:35]
asciilifeform	incidentally, i also have nfi how the 'zero asset' thing works. i.e., what was the plan if somehow bbet had lost x btc through some other misfortune.	[17:36]
asciilifeform	somehow i can't picture that 'zero asset' means 'dies if the wind farts on it'	[17:36]
asciilifeform	does it ?	[17:37]
assbot	BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCqtie )	[17:40]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: if he had wanted to bail it out, he could have trivially - and anonymously - throw in however many coin.	[17:40]
asciilifeform	and it would have been 'donation to shareholders'	[17:40]
asciilifeform	and no one would even have noticed that any was lost.	[17:40]
asciilifeform	but he did not do this because he is a ~principled~ fella.	[17:40]
asciilifeform	think.	[17:40]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: you eminently also have been.	[17:41]
asciilifeform	why would an unprincipled mp ~not~ anonymously fill in the hole ?	[17:42]
asciilifeform	you think mircea_popescu actually ~needs~ the 17 for something ?	[17:42]
asciilifeform	i think he uses more than 17 btc of toilet paper whenever he shits.	[17:42]
asciilifeform	(with gold leaf.)	[17:42]
asciilifeform	the way i'm reading it, he was trying to make a point, that the currency is broken (and it is), and that he refuses to be held to answer for ~it being broken~	[17:43]
asciilifeform	not to this degree ?	[17:44]
asciilifeform	i hold myself responsible for some of mircea_popescu's rage. and think that it is justified. because the thing ~is~ br0k3n.	[17:44]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: if i had to guess, a1 was sent with default knobs.	[17:46]
asciilifeform	mpb prolly.	[17:47]
asciilifeform	which i know ~0 about.	[17:47]
asciilifeform	for all i know (and i have said this) it runs on kremvax.	[17:47]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: default settings worked on every day prior to day x.	[17:48]
asciilifeform	again i have nfi, but this is the most parsimonious hypothesis	[17:48]
asciilifeform	based on what mircea_popescu said in his article.	[17:48]
asciilifeform	nubbins` carefully inspects his chair every day before he sits down in it ?	[17:49]
asciilifeform	every time ?	[17:49]
asciilifeform	and let's say the chair breaks one time, and nubbins` finds out that it was because of something a bunch of subhuman scum did.	[17:50]
asciilifeform	what will he say ?	[17:50]
kakobrekla	its not only that chair broke. he deliberately sat on it again (more precisely sat bitbet on it) after he noticed it was broken.	[17:50]
BingoBoingo	nubbins` carefully inspects his chair every day before he sits down in it ? << This is inspiring a yard project. I have a tall yet narrow tree to take down. Will make a tree stake before gone forever!	[17:52]
BingoBoingo	nubbins`: Nah, just craft project. Not film project	[17:53]
danielpbarron	maybe the 17 btc should be donated to bbet by s.nsa? If indeed the whole point was to make a point about the brokenness of bitcoin.	[17:54]
*	BingoBoingo may have to make the jump to power tools. Crosscut saw has given arm a beating.	[17:54]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: how do the shareholders of s.nsa feel about such a thing ?	[17:54]
asciilifeform	any happier than the bbet ones ?	[17:54]
asciilifeform	jurov ?	[17:54]
jurov	asciilifeform: i do check the mempol stats before sending small tx	[17:55]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: well danielpbarron was asking about s.nsa shareholders	[17:55]
jurov	and ALWAYS add at least 0.00001,	[17:55]
danielpbarron	heh i'm a shareholder of both, although not a very big one. full disclosure : i have more invested in bbet than nsa	[17:55]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: i must confess that if mircea_popescu was conducting an experiment to demonstrate the brokkenness of bitcoin, under the banner of s.nsa, he would have put it as expense in s.nsa statement.	[17:58]
asciilifeform	which we signed. and notice, there is not such a thing there.	[17:58]
asciilifeform	so even though mircea_popescu is not here, i can say with some certainty that he was not conducting an s.nsa experiment that day.	[17:59]
jurov	i have mostly (and painfully) divested from s.nsa, but think two wrongs does not make right	[17:59]
jurov	(i.e. taking from s.nsa money for something it was not involved with at all)	[17:59]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron suggested it, so i was curious re: his logic.	[18:00]
danielpbarron	just seems like more of an nsa themed thing, but I'm no expert in these matters and I'm not married to the idea	[18:01]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: this would, then, have the unpleasant flavour of the car wash folks, who wash you at a red light and then ask for pay.	[18:02]
asciilifeform	which i do not think was meant here.	[18:02]
danielpbarron	i'm not saying you haven't made some sound points nubbins` , but I trust Mircea more than I trust you, and that's that.	[18:03]
punkman	was this even the first time bbet double paid?	[18:03]
punkman	wow mega backlogs	[18:04]
trinque	I butter mine on both, use as a transportation device	[18:04]
asciilifeform	at any rate, mircea_popescu is prolly off sitting in the war room recrunching the numberz, and will come back and either show us that we're idiots, or apologize and 'gracious donation to shareholderz.'	[18:04]
asciilifeform	but imho it is not a very interesting thread without him.	[18:05]
punkman	bitcoin runs on drama!	[18:05]
asciilifeform	thus far this is reminiscent of the otp thread.	[18:05]
jurov	asciilifeform: lol 'war room', do you remember he did accounting mistakes wrt bitbet divs almost every month?	[18:05]
trinque	nubbins`: bawww	[18:05]
jurov	and we all know discussing what mp should and should not do is in vain, but he's not alone in there. i'm looking forward to see how kakobrekla follows with this	[18:06]
asciilifeform	jurov: i have nfi, i admit that i do not typically follow the subject	[18:06]
danielpbarron	as to whether the listing agreement was violated, I hope for the sake of myself and other shareholders that bbet isn't liquidated at the specified price of 0.00001 btc per share	[18:06]
asciilifeform	recall, i am here for slightly different reason than other folks, i'm not really an 'assets' fella	[18:06]
trinque	nubbins`: you have an embarassing habit of throwing jabs at everyone in a room when you have a problem with one	[18:06]
asciilifeform	i have no assets and no net work, i just like maths.	[18:06]
asciilifeform	*net worth	[18:06]
danielpbarron	asciilifeform, you ~are~ an asset <3	[18:07]
asciilifeform	l0l	[18:07]
trinque	awwww	[18:07]
asciilifeform	i think i am what mircea_popescu terms a 'shoemaker.'	[18:07]
asciilifeform	which is fine with me.	[18:07]
asciilifeform	(this is a term in ru also.)	[18:07]
danielpbarron	i'm a shoe shipper hehe	[18:08]
jurov	better than shoe polisher at any rate	[18:09]
danielpbarron	well i don't masquerade as a finance expert while making my shoes..	[18:09]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 03:01:31; mircea_popescu: !rate nubbins` -1 more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.	[18:09]
*	danielpbarron shrugs	[18:09]
danielpbarron	i'm baking an article about this for my blog, fwiw	[18:11]
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asciilifeform	i will read.	[18:12]
danielpbarron	on a related note, neither is worth much	[18:12]
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davout	oh god, such mega-drama	[18:32]
asciilifeform	nah, this is mere kilo-drama.	[18:36]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424706 << this got lost in the noise and i would like to come back to it.	[18:37]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 15:34:51; dooglus: see main.cpp: int nLimit = 500 /* + locator.GetDistanceBack() */ ;	[18:37]
dooglus	see also: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/951 -- if it's not illegal to post github links in here ;)	[18:38]
assbot	Limit getheaders to a hard 2000. by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #951 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0bTn3 )	[18:38]
asciilifeform	i have to agree with mircea_popescu on this one , http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424756	[18:38]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 15:47:24; mircea_popescu: it just turned a mild magic number ("get all the headers no less than 2000) into a fucking protocol limit. "only get 2k". this is utter nonsense.	[18:38]
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asciilifeform	dooglus: when trb disagrees with prb, prb is ipso facto wrong.	[18:38]
asciilifeform	because wtf goats do not get to decide human questions.	[18:38]
dooglus	sure	[18:39]
asciilifeform	so this answers it.	[18:39]
asciilifeform	if your client barfs when working with trb, patch your client.	[18:39]
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dooglus	I saw MP's "a cartel of Bitcoin miners is deliberately and systematically withholding blocks for an interval of about 20 minutes to a half hour" and was sceptical	[18:40]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[18:41]
dooglus	then remembered prb's 0.12 release writes the current block height into the locktime of transactions it creates	[18:41]
dooglus	see http://dpaste.com/0FCJN2C	[18:41]
assbot	dpaste: 0FCJN2C ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cchP )	[18:41]
dooglus	weird distribution of current block heights there	[18:41]
asciilifeform	dooglus: mircea_popescu does not use prb.	[18:41]
dooglus	doesn't matter	[18:41]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: yeah but he baked the tx	[18:42]
asciilifeform	so prb tx-baking behaviour would not influence matters	[18:42]
dooglus	most people don't use prb - most transactions don't have a non-zero locktime - but lots do	[18:42]
dooglus	many other transactions in that block do have block heights baked into them	[18:43]
asciilifeform	ah this is re: whether blocks are being withheld as per mircea_popescu's hypothesis.	[18:43]
pete_dushenski	in other matters of discrepancy vis-a-vis bitbet, https://bitbet.us/bet/1217/bitcoin-main-net-block-size-to-increase-before/#c5748 https://blockchain.info/block-index/1087033/000000000000000006ee25df43ce4b44f6ee4f67032da09bba60001c34437017 http://blockr.io/block/info/401585	[18:43]
assbot	BitBet - Bitcoin main net block size to increase before July 2016 :: 3 B (58%) on Yes, 2.18 B (42%) on No \| closing in 2 months 3 weeks \| weight: 40`287 (100`000 to 2`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0ctRQ )	[18:44]
assbot	Bitcoin Block #401585 ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cwx7 )	[18:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cu8i )	[18:44]
dooglus	right. the majority of txs which do have a height baked in were created 10 blocks before that block	[18:44]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: what are we looking at here ?	[18:44]
pete_dushenski	re links : number of txen, fees, hash, merkle root match - size of block and number of coins transacted do not match	[18:45]
danielpbarron	nubbins`, http://trilema.com/2015/lacessiveram-editor/	[18:45]
assbot	Lacessiveram editor on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GY9tv0 )	[18:45]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: dunno if this is a common occurrence, just noticed it because it was raised in bb comment.	[18:45]
pete_dushenski	i haven't the patience to compare every listed tx. perhaps someone else has script or program for this	[18:46]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: for your (two)dogged persistence, cheers.	[18:47]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: i do not. but this'd be a good beginner project	[18:50]
asciilifeform	(write block disasmer that can take output of 'spitblock')	[18:50]
asciilifeform	dumpblock, rather	[18:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59550 @ 0.00053315 = 31.7491 BTC [-] {4}	[18:51]
asciilifeform	and this is really appropriately a shiva project.	[18:52]
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dooglus	pete_dushenski: that block is 999962 bytes long, which is 976.5254 * 1024 - so that's the discrepancy	[18:52]
asciilifeform	and now that i think about it, phf had a block disasmer in commonlisp.	[18:52]
thestringpuller	;;calc 976.5254 * 1024	[18:53]
gribble	999962.0096	[18:53]
asciilifeform	but i have misplaced the link, and cannot find it in the logz	[18:53]
dooglus	echo $((($(bitcoind getblock $(bitcoind getblockhash 401585) false \| wc -c) - 1) / 2))	[18:53]
pete_dushenski	so bc.info suddenly forgot that there are 1024 bytes in a kb, like the girl who thinks that her 3 months old son is '12 weeks old' ?	[18:54]
pete_dushenski	strange.	[18:55]
dooglus	they also think kB is spelled with a capital K. whenever blockchain.info disagrees with another block explorer, it's wrong	[18:56]
*	Chicago (shikaakwa@unaffiliated/chicago) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:56]
asciilifeform	!up Chicago	[18:57]
*	assbot gives voice to Chicago	[18:57]
dooglus	then there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte telling me there are 1000 bytes in a kilobyte and 1024 bytes in a kibibyte...	[18:58]
assbot	Kibibyte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1OXTXBC )	[18:58]
shinohai	dafuq?	[18:58]
asciilifeform	i side with tradition and honest ram vendors vs. consistency and scummy hdd makers.	[19:00]
thestringpuller	ram vendors are honest?	[19:00]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: in the sense that they 1024.	[19:01]
asciilifeform	yes.	[19:01]
asciilifeform	because those who stopped, stopped so that they could scam consumers.	[19:01]
thestringpuller	2^10	[19:01]
thestringpuller	;;calc 2 ** 10	[19:01]
gribble	1024	[19:01]
danielpbarron	nubbins`> BingoBoingo what's next?! signed & ready to go << link the signed encrypted thing as a text file (on dpaste or your own site) in a later tell to Bingo	[19:02]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: lol is 'piece of shit' a term of endearment on your end of the globe ? i have a hard time keeping track of all the different culture nuances in this vast and expansive country of ours	[19:03]
danielpbarron	make sure it's encrypted and not just signed.. otherwise the web crawlers get to read it first	[19:03]
pete_dushenski	cultural*	[19:03]
pete_dushenski	http://dpaste.com/0FCJN2C << v. interesting, dooglus	[19:04]
assbot	dpaste: 0FCJN2C ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cchP )	[19:04]
dooglus	pete_dushenski: yeah, but what does it mean?	[19:04]
pete_dushenski	i'm not qualified to say what it means !	[19:04]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: hey there's no rule proclaiming that everybody has to be friendz.	[19:05]
asciilifeform	nubbins` and pete_dushenski are entirely welcome to sit on opposite ends of the bar and give mean stares or whatnot.	[19:05]
BingoBoingo	BingoBoingo how do / can i submit a qntra piece? << sign/encrypt a document and pass it to me somehow	[19:08]
dooglus	pete_dushenski: http://dpaste.com/382FKCJ	[19:08]
assbot	dpaste: 382FKCJ: blocks either side of 400739 show a similar pattern too ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0eX2G )	[19:08]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: to be sure.	[19:09]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: i gotcha ;)	[19:09]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425662 << this very readily suggests to me a malleus-II	[19:09]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 22:08:22; dooglus: pete_dushenski: http://dpaste.com/382FKCJ	[19:09]
asciilifeform	that will refuse to relay tx where locktime is set.	[19:10]
BingoBoingo	nubbins`: will let you know, but it seems rather long	[19:10]
BingoBoingo	nubbins`: also wasn't encrypted	[19:12]
BingoBoingo	seems a bit early to do a piece on this.	[19:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113593 @ 0.00053404 = 60.6632 BTC [+] {5}	[19:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34008 @ 0.00053225 = 18.1008 BTC [-] {3}	[19:14]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b142	[19:17]
davout	dooglus: any interpretation for the data you posted? i fail to see anything meaningful to conclude from it	[19:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55350 @ 0.00053615 = 29.6759 BTC [+] {3}	[19:18]
davout	curious why you'd say "that's a weird distribution - 70 transactions were made when block 400728 was the current block, and only 16 were made at a later point in time" when the majority of the referenced transactions have a 0 locktime	[19:19]
davout	am i missing something ?	[19:19]
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asciilifeform	nubbins`: gonna also apply to snsa ?	[19:22]
asciilifeform	did i ever even once publish a broadcast exactly on time ?	[19:22]
thestringpuller	are there any NSA statements published after the 5th?	[19:24]
thestringpuller	ain't nobody got time 4 that	[19:25]
*	assbot removes voice from Chicago	[19:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48350 @ 0.00053629 = 25.9296 BTC [+] {2}	[19:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55800 @ 0.00053104 = 29.632 BTC [-] {5}	[19:35]
*	Chicago has quit (Quit: Good-bye)	[19:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00053067 = 10.2419 BTC [-] {2}	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1877403-stiuso-amenaza-para-cristina-y-desafio-para-macri	[19:42]
assbot	Stiuso, amenaza para Cristina y desafío para Macri - 07.03.2016 - LA NACION ... ( http://bit.ly/1QH5ZS5 )	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	"El fiscal Alberto Nisman volvió a ocupar el centro de la escena. La investigación sobre su muerte está tomando una orientación, cuyo desenlace se puede prever: Nisman fue víctima de un asesinato en el que participó el gobierno de Cristina Kirchner, en combinación con agentes iraníes."	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	looking for the low down on argentina ? read it in qntra today, or in the argentinian mass media a week later.	[19:42]
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BingoBoingo	lol	[19:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu !	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	hm ?	[19:43]
asciilifeform	see logz. reactor meltdowns, folks shat pants, etc.	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425011 << they should have been. except if the "non overlapping" sets of miners DO in fact overlap, in the sense of being merely meaningless facades of the same one thing, in which case they wouldn't necessarily know that they can be trivially fingerprinted by the symptom of "hey, apparently they know about a txn they shouldn't know about".	[19:44]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 16:45:54; dooglus: if A1 and A2 went to non-overlapping sets of nodes then A2 should have been accepted and mined, right?	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform is there anything more than random derp of tenuous association with b-a has a total meltdown when he realises that b-a is not fiat, the republic not a democracy and i don't give a shit about "people themselves" ?	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425015 << you think so. but in reality, you're not actually part of the relay network.	[19:45]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 16:47:14; PeterL: so maybe it was you!	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	you just don't know enough about this sort of thing to find this out.	[19:46]
asciilifeform	see log. jurov, kakobrekla, and i all wondered wtf mircea_popescu thought he was doing when he programmed a1	[19:46]
asciilifeform	and i think nubbins` has gone to drink	[19:46]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/706973928007151618	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform see above neh ?	[19:47]
asciilifeform	i have nfi, and might be a shoemaker.	[19:47]
asciilifeform	how is nubbins` 'tenuous' ? i thought he was a serious stockholder, long before i even came here.	[19:48]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose you broadcast Y to nodes Nm where m	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	=2i+1. suppose you verify that nodes Nm do not advertise Y. is this proof sufficient to you that nodes N1... Nn is a charade, and they are all node N ?	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i seem to recall he failed both tests for continued lordship and was basically not on the list of names to be cleared because he asked not to be.	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	this'd be my definition of tenuous.	[19:50]
asciilifeform	he did ask	[19:50]
asciilifeform	and deedbotted it iirc.	[19:50]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401640 << sometime there	[19:51]
assbot	Logged on 10-02-2016 02:24:16; nubbins`: speak now if you believe a lord that has contributed TRB patches, who owns the second-largest s.mg stock warrant, who trades in the only physical collectibles that are priced solely in BTC, who pays the bill for eulora.org, who is the republic's de facto minister of letters awaiting with bated quill the whittling-down of a codebase fit to publish, should be stripped of his title; speak your	[19:51]
asciilifeform	or was this a different nubbins`	[19:51]
davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425729 <<< did you actually do this when broadcasting A1...4 ?	[19:53]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 22:49:27; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[19:53]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425729 << yes.	[19:53]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 22:49:27; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	minus the magic numbers, but this.	[19:53]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is standard syblic detector.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	and so no, one who things "well there's nodes, so it's a p2p network" is utterly flattering himself. no such thing in bitcoin. there's a supernode, and a bunch of whatevers.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform right.	[19:54]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if you actually did this experiment, and this was the result, then you just nailed a set of sybils, yes	[19:54]
asciilifeform	but we knew that it was infested, no ?	[19:54]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 22:52:54; mircea_popescu: myeah.	[19:54]
asciilifeform	all of my experiments pointed at precisely this conclusion.	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	the chief problem with trying to communicate things is that there's always going to be a set of idiots / lazy thinkers who want a specific outcome out of the conversation, and then proceed to parasitize it with their half-assed sententious bullshit.	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	anyway. to my eyes this is specifically and precisely said in the qntra piece, but w/e, more passes never hurt anyone, i guess. except if the passes are beatings or something.	[19:55]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: well you also had a hypothesis concerning miners	[19:55]
asciilifeform	which is what got folks rioting	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	that's also in there. different part.	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	let's just say that i lifted the rock and i saw every type of heresy in there.	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	which yes, on the sheer strength of the abundance and precision, "dang, this better be a nightmare"	[19:55]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i've been lifting the rocks for a while. but i do it with sapper's spade , but as i understand you did it with bbet's foot ?	[19:57]
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asciilifeform	nubbins`: what he was asking is, why would the nodes that he did NOT transmit a1 to, reject a2.	[19:59]
asciilifeform	if they aren't relaying a1.	[19:59]
asciilifeform	this is a logical question.	[19:59]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: they are, however, my strong point. and mircea_popescu asked an entirely logical q.	[20:00]
davout	asciilifeform: i don't see how one could conclusively assert that A1 has not been relayed by the node one originally broadcast it to	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	anyway, if anyone had anythong intelligent to say that got buried in the spew, feel free to restate. i'm not wading through that pile of idiocy.	[20:00]
asciilifeform	davout: if it ~was~ relayed, it would be mined.	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	what has the log done to be reduced so!	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	davout because one can connect to it again and see what it says.	[20:01]
davout	asciilifeform: a transaction being relayed does not imply it will be mined by anyone	[20:01]
asciilifeform	davout: so a1 was rejected by miners because ????. and a few hundred nodes, a day later, showed no symptoms of knowing about it.	[20:02]
davout	mircea_popescu: true	[20:02]
asciilifeform	then ages later, it gets unearthed. by whom, and how?	[20:02]
davout	asciilifeform: i have nfi, but absence of proof isn't proof of absence	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	a statement of fact is a statement of fact. it only becomes a proof if used in a reasoning. a fact and a proof are very different items : one's a realia, the other ideal.	[20:03]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: the most plausible scenario i can think of is that mircea_popescu's network has been boxed in by sybils.	[20:03]
asciilifeform	aha, he's under a dome.	[20:04]
asciilifeform	or however you say it in engl.	[20:04]
davout	ftr i checked my own logs, and what they say is that my node heard about A1 around march 1st	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	davout that was 2nd pass.	[20:04]
davout	obviously	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	its sudden appearance was discussed in these very logs - even for that brief interval before it made it into a block.	[20:04]
davout	now, i'm quite curious to actually see A2...4 with my own eyes, and check those too	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform this is obviously always possible. except it'd be bitbet, raqther than mp. i've been otherwise unmolested throughout.	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	how are you going to see them ? they never made it.	[20:05]
dooglus	davout: curious why you'd say "that's a weird distribution << when mining block N, I have my pick of all the transactions broadcast while block N-1 was the newest block. some of those will have decent fees. transactions broadcast while block N-10 was the newest block that haven't already been mined are probably not very attractive to mine now. so why is block N including so many transactions created 10 blocks ago and so few created 1 block ag	[20:05]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: as discussed earlier, it is uniquely easy to do this to bbet.	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no argument. in which it becomes entirely a bitbet's swamp, which bitbet has to drain.	[20:06]
davout	mircea_popescu: i like to check stuff, maybe there's stuff to learn if i find out they somehow were relayed to my nodes at some point	[20:06]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is so far imho the best argument for why it had to be bbet's foot on the mine.	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	i'm willing, on general goodwill, to help. i am certainly not willing to underwrite an open ended personal support for some venture i happen to manage.	[20:06]
asciilifeform	i'm not a bbet shareholder or for that matter anything at all, but am willing to help	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	it is unclear what the help'd be at the present time, however. i see exactly no signs of any of the observed behaviours discussed in teh qntra piece anymore.	[20:07]
asciilifeform	and so far my verdict is that bbet was sybilled into going under a dome.	[20:07]
asciilifeform	but it is entirely unclear to me that miners had anything to do with the observables here.	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly.	[20:07]
asciilifeform	(miners ~are~ misbehaving, as, e.g., i witnessed with my lee sedol bet. but this is separate.)	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform how does a transaction that shouldn't even be relayed GET relayed, and then mined, in short order ?	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	davout> asciilifeform: a transaction being relayed does not imply it will be mined by anyone << especially a 0fee one.	[20:08]
asciilifeform	trivially: the sybilnet has a pet miner.	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	but a pet miner is not good enough.	[20:08]
asciilifeform	one of those block-a-day things.	[20:08]
asciilifeform	perhaps the 'telco 241' or what was it.	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	it is an intricate discussion, and one i'm unwillingto carry in the full detail, but on the basis of what i have seen, it is my considered opinion that at the time in discussion, the miner cartel was running a ~half hour block delay thing.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	and they put it in, at the ~same second they "broadcast" it to the hanger-on nodes.	[20:09]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i assumed that you had nonpublic intel that led you to say this.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	i also said as much at that exact time, in this very chan.	[20:09]
davout	dooglus: so in other words: block witholding	[20:09]
asciilifeform	but i have to say, it is not supported by the incident described in the article, and so this is giving folks indigestion, fwiw.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	and there are VERY GOOD game theoretic reasons for a miner cartel to do this.	[20:10]
asciilifeform	because it looked like '1,2,3, ....magic happens, ... --> ergo x.'	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	specifically because it allows them the only possible moat against competition	[20:10]
asciilifeform	and very clearly there are mighty good gametheoretical reasons for the cartel.	[20:10]
asciilifeform	it is half of why i believed that a cartel exists.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform when you say "it is not supported", what do you mean ?	[20:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16477 @ 0.00053067 = 8.7438 BTC [-]	[20:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the incident with bbet, can be explained without miner cartel.	[20:10]
asciilifeform	evil nodes suffice.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	specifically the "sudden mining of an old 0fee tx" ? how ?	[20:11]
asciilifeform	you just need 1 coopted miner.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	"pet miner". if pet miner has 1% of hash, the observed phenomena occur 1% of cases.	[20:11]
asciilifeform	of modest stature.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	and if it doesn't find a block that day ?	[20:11]
davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425817 <<< the "sybil testing" part is not documented in the qntra piece or did I miss it?	[20:11]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 23:07:12; mircea_popescu: but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly.	[20:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what makes you think they haven't been squeezing the trigger for 100 shots	[20:11]
asciilifeform	until this finally fired.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	i've been watching. this is 1.5 to maaaaybe 2.	[20:12]
asciilifeform	i can easily see that this pistol might shoot 1% of the time the trigger is pulled.	[20:12]
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asciilifeform	this, perhaps, was 100th.	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	i had been watching. this, and many other things.	[20:12]
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assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/286b8513cf86618b	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, yes, if you believe 1 in 100, they yes, you don't need cartel, just persistent miner.	[20:14]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is my current picture.	[20:14]
assbot	Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from -1 to -1 with note: basic scammer, no accountability	[20:14]
asciilifeform	nubbins` i think you already did this earlier	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform by this logic tho, are there also 99 bitcoins we don't know about ? 99 linuxen ? 99 gccs that statically link ?	[20:16]
davout	thinking about it, I interpret the fact that A1 did not (on first attempt) get relayed to my node as indicative of nodes not being merely facades for some sort of 'super-node'	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	davout how do you figure ?	[20:16]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: waiwut	[20:16]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: my hypothesis was that it suffices for the enemy to have a pistol that does this, e.g., per every N trigger pulls, and that the number came up.	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know, and we for whatever reasons just see the 1 in 100 gunshot.	[20:17]
asciilifeform	aha	[20:17]
asciilifeform	much about the turdnet is stochastic, and so this is mega-unsurprise.	[20:17]
davout	mircea_popescu: if everyone's actually the same node, broadcasting to one node is actually broadcasting to everyone, and it follows that it should have relayed properly. I guess it can also be the sign of your connections all actually being to the same sybilling node	[20:18]
asciilifeform	davout: issue is that 'everyone knew' SOLELY for the purpose of rejecting a1...n but NOT for relay to miner!	[20:18]
davout	nubbins`: for the tx not to relay at all it has to be 'false' for everyone	[20:19]
asciilifeform	aha.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	davout i don't think you take my meaning. the situation that you imagine is, "hey, whatever, summertime and a bunch of us are at the beach". the situation in reality is, "a moroccan clan and some fat frenchies at the beach". guess how likely you are to a) find out the price of dried fruit and b) find out that you aren't finding out the price of dried fruit.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	or if you prefer, see phf's example with "my friend, the kgb agent"	[20:19]
gribble	but where does that leave the 17 btc of your own funds that you put on bitbet's liability sheet?	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.	[20:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is sorta sheckley's hour of battle thing.	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	in a sense.	[20:20]
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gribble	omg you guize i think he's actually just gonna pretend he hasn't defrauded bitbet and breached two sections of the contract	[20:21]
davout	asciilifeform: it might also very well be that most nodes use similar relay policies and that A1 simply didn't satisfy the relaying rules	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i've been thinking about your theory ever since, but i don't credit it asciilifeform. for one thing, it's unstable. seriously, supernode and miniminer ? it'd get torn apart.	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	back in the day bitcoin mining was healthy, after a fashion, pools came and went. they've been stable for a long time now.	[20:23]
asciilifeform	davout: if it did not satisfy relaying rules, WHERE DID IT COME FROM on day x !?	[20:23]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: tell how not stable ?	[20:23]
asciilifeform	some bastard is running 3000+ sybils. what's unstable here.	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	because the other miners would have an incentive to destroy the miniminer's supernode, and there's jackl the miniminer could do to protect it.	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	a supernode only grows in the shade of miner cartel.	[20:24]
asciilifeform	the other miners are amoeba ?	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	i'm not saying what you're saying is provably impossible. i am saying to my eyes - it is very improbable.	[20:24]
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davout	asciilifeform: i do not claim I know where it came from, but do note that 'not being relayed by most nodes' is absolutely not conflicting with 'some dude rebroadcast it because he felt like it'	[20:24]
asciilifeform	it is quite unclear to me that they have the brains of a teenager writing trojans in vb in murmansk.	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	but i dunno how to carry that particular discussion in a way that'd dispose.	[20:25]
asciilifeform	collectively.	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	well... this is hard to argue against.	[20:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171492 @ 0.00053048 = 90.9731 BTC [-] {5}	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	it is also the first time i've seeing you err on THIS side ever before.	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	so i guess you do balance, after all !	[20:26]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i conduct own 'intel', and yes, i don't have a radiotelescope like mircea_popescu's, only eyes.	[20:26]
davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425886 <<< well, I am running a node in the sense that I receive and broadcast transactions (with the occasional double-spend) just fine	[20:26]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 23:20:09; mircea_popescu: you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	my telescope, in it being man made not god given, is not much more than a tool.	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	davout that's what i mean by positive. yes, "it works".	[20:27]
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mircea_popescu	this is very different from the negative, "it doesn't not work".	[20:27]
asciilifeform	at any rate i am broadly unconvinced that network sybil octopus needs any kind of miners other than a small share of standard hashrate.	[20:27]
asciilifeform	in order to wreck things.	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform but in order to maintain itself!	[20:28]
asciilifeform	sybil octopus can get between victim and miners as a whole. and yes, this is enabled by the concentration of hash power in a shithole kingdom.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	i mean... miners can just... ban it.	[20:28]
asciilifeform	how do they identify the pseudopods ?	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	"not our own" ?	[20:28]
davout	mircea_popescu: well, it also "doesn't not work" in the sense that I sometimes have got transactions stuck because I'm a cheap zero-fee jew, that I got unstuck by issuing a double-spend	[20:29]
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asciilifeform	the miners gotta accept tx from white devils	[20:29]
asciilifeform	because that's who does the bulk of tx-ing	[20:29]
davout	now i'm unsure how to further go into negative bitcoin definition	[20:29]
asciilifeform	they cannot plug the hose from their arse into their mouths and sustain themselves.	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	davout i don't mean it as an attack or anything. and the question of exploring the negative is open now and will remain open until spec.	[20:29]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i will attend to this as soon as i get home.	[20:29]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i am on the stake.	[20:29]
davout	nubbins`: absence of proof isn't proof of absence yo	[20:30]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i'm about to commit gluttony and lust.	[20:30]
davout	:D	[20:30]
*	trinque fist-bumps asciilifeform	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform even so, i don't think banning sybil reduces to "unable to talk to white devils".	[20:31]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i suspect that they, supposing there were brains anywhere involved, ~tried~ to fight the octopus but eventually lost.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	i've encountered to signs of this animal, and this is such an unlikely event if there were a battle even ?	[20:32]
asciilifeform	where, incidentally, do most tx fodder for cn miners originate ? i do not have good data for this.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	used to come straight out of bluematt's arse.	[20:33]
asciilifeform	i am not in the habit of eating from arse.	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	"lighting network"	[20:33]
asciilifeform	so i have ~no data.	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	or somesuch	[20:33]
asciilifeform	at any rate, i have long seen nodes as an astonishingly weak point, which is why i pressed the whole pogo thing	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	in any case : some degree of proxying is absolutely unavoidable in bitcoin relay , because ... ddos.	[20:34]
asciilifeform	the whole orchestra does no one any good if there is reliably amoebic scum between your console and the free world.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	well yeah, had we had the pogos deployed last year or somesuch this might have been a very different story.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	but... no pogos. because no static linking in gcc. because etc.	[20:35]
asciilifeform	the sad part is that i fixed pretty much all of the cthonic hell-pits that prevented pogo,	[20:35]
asciilifeform	aside from the two listed earlier.	[20:35]
asciilifeform	(the blkindex and mempool exhaustion)	[20:35]
mircea_popescu	re prev point : so yeah, most strong nodes will have multiple interfaces they look at. so most people (who know, as opposed of feeling like they know) aren't necessariyl surprised by ~some degree~ of sybiling.	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	which is what everyone (at least previously) told himself is happening to go to bed and not wake screaming	[20:36]
asciilifeform	recently i contemplated doing a rotor port to a chinese tv box, 1G of ram, available for ~30 usd in qty. infinite. but when the fuck would i do this, a student ought to do this	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform hey, don't feel bad, one can only try.	[20:36]
asciilifeform	i have 256 fingers but they are all in some orifice.	[20:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'g' is another angle of attack against the octopus.	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i'm sure nubbins` will be done derping idly, dump the ugly broad, get the fuck out of the meaningless paper products shuffling, get back in math school and generally make himself useful. any day now.	[20:37]
asciilifeform	which is actually why i invented it.	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	looking forward to the nubbins 1g box so he can be a lord on his own merit for once.	[20:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you said chix can be taught anything. teach >= one to partake in this.	[20:38]
asciilifeform	i would much appreciate.	[20:38]
asciilifeform	ever see picture of the 19th c. german one-man band things ?	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	do i charge s.nsa ? what's the shareholders think ?	[20:38]
asciilifeform	a bloke with drum, tuba, etc.	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	the long suffering s.nsa shareholders lol	[20:38]
asciilifeform	that's me right now.	[20:38]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i almost forgot that nubbins` was a math grad!?	[20:39]
asciilifeform	but hm, iirc he was.	[20:39]
*	asciilifeform will bbl, removing stake from arse, driving home.	[20:41]
*	cazalla (~cazalla@unaffiliated/cazalla) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:42]
*	assbot gives voice to cazalla	[20:43]
cazalla	now this is podracing! nice logs	[20:44]
pete_dushenski	podracing ? like the episode i thing ?	[20:44]
cazalla	it's a me me pete_dushenski	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	curious how long before alf buys one of those self-driving cars so he can irc while he idles.	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	;;ud podracing	[20:46]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pod+Racing \| When you jerk off two dicks at once. The dicks must be on each side, so it looks like you're pod racing.	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	no homo.	[20:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2543 @ 0.00053211 = 1.3532 BTC [+] {2}	[20:46]
cazalla	ahah	[20:46]
pete_dushenski	wasn't there a southpark about that ?/	[20:46]
*	joesmoe_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[20:46]
pete_dushenski	kyle's dad and a hot tub or something	[20:46]
*	adlai (~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:46]
cazalla	nfi, have not watched many of the more recent seasons	[20:47]
cazalla	don't recall that one in anycase	[20:47]
*	joesmoe (~joesmoe@201.216.206.41) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:48]
*	shinohai sighs	[20:48]
pete_dushenski	cazalla: aha! http://southpark.wikia.com/wiki/Two_Guys_Naked_in_a_Hot_Tub	[20:50]
assbot	Two Guys Naked in a Hot Tub - South Park Archives - Wikia ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3odpI )	[20:50]
pete_dushenski	"Randy asks Gerald if he'd ever had a gay fantasy and Gerald explains that he has always thought of watching another guy masturbate. The fantasy then becomes a reality."	[20:51]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:27:57] look: true or false: mp is fraudulently entering 17btc into bitbet's liabilities	[20:51]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:28:04] correct	[20:51]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:28:23] i am not arguing that.	[20:51]
gribble	just for you mp	[20:51]
cazalla	fwiw, and isn't worth much, i think nubbins` has legit cause for complaint, shame to see the fangs and then venom flow though	[20:52]
cazalla	pete_dushenski, never seen pod racing used in that context though, guess ill find a new me me	[20:52]
pete_dushenski	cazalla: gotta have fangs and venom, or else it's just huggy reddit...	[20:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00053622 = 10.0809 BTC [+]	[20:54]
danielpbarron	nubbins`, we get it already. I don't think spamming and circumventing other people's ignore help your case..	[20:54]
danielpbarron	what should I do? /part ?	[20:55]
cazalla	pete_dushenski, sure, but sometimes a dry bite is all that's needed	[20:55]
deedbot-	[Daniel P. Barron] Are you thankful? - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/are-you-thankful/	[20:56]
danielpbarron	on that note..	[20:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28307 @ 0.00053622 = 15.1788 BTC [+]	[20:56]
*	pete_dushenski can't help but wonder if nubbins` has s.mpoe or s.bbet shorts. and if he didn't before, is now looking . if he just wants to "fleece some money out of [mp]", why not eh ?	[20:56]
pete_dushenski	danielpbarron: glad to see you're blogging btw :)	[20:56]
danielpbarron	and if my wwwtron dies again, i just archived it..	[20:57]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: but surely you could find someone who would sell you options	[20:59]
pete_dushenski	last!	[21:00]
cazalla	nubbins`, mp did say you are more than free to have another lord relay any messages	[21:01]
hanbot	jurov> !rate nubbins` 2 voice of sanity << jurov seriously, is yest/today's spewage what sanity is to you? are you out of yer mind?	[21:01]
*	danielpbarron is fairly heavily invested in Eulora via his character who is one of the richest players in the world	[21:01]
cazalla	nubbins`, sure, but now you're misrepresenting other issues	[21:02]
jurov	hanbot surprise surprise i happen to agree with the "spewage" ant i asked similar questions	[21:02]
cazalla	he won't cash your stock warrant as he has you on ignore? it's clear such a request can be relayed to him if required	[21:02]
cazalla	nubbins`, tell me what you really think of me! lol	[21:03]
hanbot	jurov you asked questions. all i see from nubbins is ~24hrs of rabbling, at pretty much anyone who tries to engage him.	[21:03]
cazalla	nubbins`, raw cunt is quite endearing to an australian :)	[21:04]
punkman	imho, bitbet can decide to spend its future profits on whatever they want, advertising, servers, or 100% bonuses to random bettors. it doesn't make me want to buy more bitbet shares of course.	[21:04]
jurov	hanbot rabbling is better than silence	[21:04]
pete_dushenski	;;ud qqing	[21:05]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=qqing \| Top Definition. qqing. Whining/crying about something. From QQ. "Stop being sexist!" "Stop qqing." by A Person Who You Don't Know October 27, 2013. 13 7.	[21:05]
hanbot	okay, but is it -sanity-?!	[21:05]
jurov	hanbot so tell us your opinion, is it sane what mircea did, without even telling kakobrekla, when contract demands unanimous agreement on such thing?	[21:06]
danielpbarron	nubbins`, i'm trying to give you an out to the negative rating i fear i will eventually have to give you, and I don't mean that as a threat, just that at a certain point what you are doing is spamming, and i like to read this log every day and have the power to at least turn the nozzle two clicks towards the off position	[21:06]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: makes me think of japanimation	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	cazalla everyone has very legit cause for complaint. the problem is that [the subsection of everyone who thinks the us is the world] imagines that the thing to do when you got legit cause of complaint is to try and identify a kulak and get him to admit his mistakes.	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	no idea why he imagines that'll carry, but whatever. it ain't gonna. he doesn't like bitcoin - he can either fix it or stick to cad.	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	wanna complain, go negrate the set of power rangers that made this idiocy possible, da fuck already.	[21:07]
assbot	A Miner Problem \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCR1jt )	[21:07]
hanbot	jurov hehe what're you doing with such loaded questions? mind you, i'm not suggesting you're wrong for disagreeing or asking or anything of the sort. i'm just curious about your judgment of what i see as a guy on full tilt.	[21:08]
jurov	i like guys on full tilt!	[21:08]
hanbot	lol	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	i like guys on fult tilt too, is the weird thing.	[21:08]
*	adlai has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[21:08]
danielpbarron	hm.. idk if that's ever been tested actually	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	;;seen eskimobob	[21:08]
gribble	eskimobob was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 35 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 17 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: no idea how executions are shown on btct	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	wow it's been 3 years already ? too long, even.	[21:09]
danielpbarron	yeah but ability to self voice is through ~L2~	[21:09]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[21:09]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Ethereum to top $1 billion market cap before 2017 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1248/ethereum-to-top-1-billion-market-cap-before/#b22	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	jurov contract demands unanimous agreement on dispositions of bitbet. if it's sold, say. it doesn't demand, nor has in practice been ever the case that its sought in all matters.	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	i had no idea he even wants or wanted the liability - but my guess is no, he didn't.	[21:10]
jurov	3.2h solemnly concerns expenses	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	he also has had at all points ~0 say in how bets are resolved, for instance.	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	"t, that all expenses charged against BitBet will exclusively reflect expenditure in good faith resulting from the operation of its business"	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	this is what this is.	[21:12]
jurov	Well. 1.who and when decided to send zerofee tx 2. how is that evver acting in good faith?	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	how is this open to your inquiry ?	[21:13]
jurov	rolls eyes	[21:13]
mircea_popescu	yes ?	[21:13]
jurov	Yes.	[21:14]
mircea_popescu	you think who and when decided what in a private corp is open to your inquiry because you have the ability to roll your eyes ?	[21:15]
jurov	Yes.	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	this is nice, but i don't credit it.	[21:15]
BingoBoingo	kyle's dad and a hot tub or something << Kyle's dad and Randy's dad. 2nd part of 3 that includes Jew Scouts	[21:15]
jurov	Others who are directly involved in the agreement may credit it.	[21:15]
jurov	Or not, of course.	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	i guess then they can answer or w/e.	[21:16]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: bingo.	[21:16]
*	joesmoe_ (~joesmoe@174-16-26-93.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	jurov> hanbot rabbling is better than silence <<< not really. see the jirinovski problem. an idiot spewing makes the discussion that much harder for saner people with meaningful things to say.	[21:17]
jurov	mircea_popescu: well, if the discussion got so hard now, where are all the negrates?	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	what do you mean ?	[21:19]
jurov	if #b-a thinks nubbins` should not have a voice, let's negrate him	[21:20]
*	joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	looky, a republic is not a democracy no matter on what face you turn the democracy pebble.	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	but that aside, i did mean about the ugly broad and the general waster attitude. who knows, maybe discovering how little credit he carries with the people he likes and who he flattered himself into seeing as equals provides the much needed impetuus to make something of himself.	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	this whole "nubbins, the guy who made some funny observations" thing is certainly punching below his weight.	[21:24]
pete_dushenski	notpossibru	[21:26]
hanbot	jurov i'll be doing that; ignoring him clears the shit from my client but not the nice logs, and after two attempts to get the guy to speak rather'n spew (just mine, mind you), we find the guy figures he's my "elder" because i asked some questions about gentoo, of all things.	[21:26]
*	BingoBoingo awaits allegations of lasers	[21:26]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QCT1Ip )	[21:26]
hanbot	anyway i'm not sure if i oughta take jurov's rating as a wholesale endorsement. advise as ya like.	[21:27]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: let's just say i coulda done long track speed skating ;)	[21:27]
*	TheRealJohnGalt has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[21:28]
shinohai	I must say hanbot - awesum outfit.	[21:30]
*	joesmoe_ has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)	[21:30]
*	danielpbarron sighs	[21:31]
danielpbarron	!rated nubbins`	[21:31]
assbot	You rated user nubbins` on 30-Jun-2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: He's good for a trade in the 1 bitcoin range..	[21:31]
danielpbarron	!gettrust assbot nubbins`	[21:32]
assbot	Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 10 via 12 connections. \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/	[21:32]
danielpbarron	!v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.nubbins`.-1:5a354a1ffe0871d83743d45093803fc184c2e412a326a17fe4b049761b7be9ad	[21:32]
assbot	Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: for the purpose of turning the spam nozzle two clicks towards the off position, and in the interest of discovering whether a lord can be silenced or not	[21:32]
danielpbarron	well that was only 2 clicks, 8 more to go	[21:35]
danielpbarron	!gettrust assbot nubbins`	[21:35]
assbot	Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 8 via 12 connections. \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/	[21:35]
danielpbarron	that remains to be seen	[21:35]
danielpbarron	anyway, easy go easy come; I think you have some valid grievances, just going about it the wrong way	[21:36]
danielpbarron	i don't like you abusing the bots to get around an ignore	[21:37]
danielpbarron	write a blog article, deedbot your formal accusation, say whatever ~once~ in the log (not 20 times)	[21:37]
trinque	probably not firing off a "fuck you" to everyone you can think of in one conversation, l0l	[21:37]
trinque	free to do it	[21:37]
trinque	but it's not persuasive	[21:38]
danielpbarron	i can actually did yours for you if you don't feel like figuring it out (it's very simple)	[21:38]
assbot	Logged on 07-03-2016 15:43:19; nubbins`: also deed-ified here: https://blockexplorer.com/address/1EyQFmKg6PtARLgN2bKtNuDY28um1nbfFr	[21:38]
danielpbarron	deed yours*	[21:38]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )	[21:38]
danielpbarron	deedbot- http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCF2950F23C844002	[21:39]
assbot	Public Key Server -- Get "0xcf2950f23c844002 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCU6A2 )	[21:39]
deedbot-	Bad URL or network outage.	[21:39]
trinque	erm no	[21:39]
trinque	I would bet his key's already in there	[21:39]
trinque	deedbot-: http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ	[21:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )	[21:40]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[21:40]
trinque	^	[21:40]
trinque	deedbot.org	[21:40]
danielpbarron	deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ	[21:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )	[21:40]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[21:40]
danielpbarron	there ya go	[21:40]
danielpbarron	ah crap	[21:40]
trinque	nubbins`: been about a year and a month, and I don't have any plans to shut it down	[21:41]
trinque	danielpbarron: I will remove the dupe	[21:41]
*	danielpbarron hangs head in shame	[21:41]
BingoBoingo	;;google hugelkultur	[21:41]
gribble	hugelkultur: the ultimate raised garden beds - Richsoil.com: ; The Many Benefits of Hugelkultur \| Permaculture Magazine: ; Hugelkultur - Inspiration Green:	[21:41]
danielpbarron	yes that is what i told you around the time you just linked from the log	[21:41]
*	felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[21:41]
trinque	nubbins`: it'll fart at the hour, upload at the 15	[21:42]
danielpbarron	i think it depends if any other deeds get bundled with it	[21:43]
trinque	this one sha256's the bundle (all messages of that hour separated by single ), uses that as privkey	[21:43]
*	pete_dushenski off to train the next generation of would-be long track speedskaters	[21:47]
*	pete_dushenski has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[21:47]
*	nubbins` has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)	[21:51]
hanbot	!v assbot:hanbot.rate.nubbins`.-1:001b32f62b0e9367cf7b1300337c3a35571273ba07885b35c1bd4fc70e900e0b	[21:52]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of -1 for nubbins` with note: Thinks screaming at the dike plugs the hole. See http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424682 .	[21:52]
*	adlai (~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:52]
asciilifeform	oh buggerall.	[21:53]
asciilifeform	what does gentoo even have to do with it?!	[21:53]
asciilifeform	nubbins`...?	[21:54]
BingoBoingo	alf has boat, hanbot has dike, /me wonders what next metaphor for the waters BTC precariously insulates from will be	[21:54]
hanbot	lol	[21:54]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: btc is the good ship aurora.	[21:54]
asciilifeform	y'know, the one with the cement bottom.	[21:54]
asciilifeform	in the leningrad harbor.	[21:55]
trinque	lol	[21:55]
BingoBoingo	ah	[21:55]
asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heRWXcIkAFo << oblig.	[21:56]
assbot	Что тебе снится, крейсер "Аврора" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QyYOgT )	[21:56]
shinohai	dam	[21:57]
*	Chicago (shikaakwa@unaffiliated/chicago) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:57]
asciilifeform	'what are you dreaming, cruiser aurora '	[21:57]
asciilifeform	http://www.amara.org/en/videos/PQ5XOPWfQ08Y/en/100549 << english.	[21:58]
assbot	What are you dreaming of, Cruiser Aurora? with subtitles \| Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1QyZ6Ez )	[21:58]
asciilifeform	anyway.	[21:58]
*	cazalla (~cazalla@unaffiliated/cazalla) has left #bitcoin-assets ("Leaving")	[22:02]
BingoBoingo	In other news, is that a dick on the right side? https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Geomar-43-days-640x410.png	[22:02]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QCW5UV )	[22:02]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426161 << fwiw, some of the folks i showed that picture to, i suspect, literally creamed their pants	[22:05]
assbot	Logged on 08-03-2016 00:30:14; shinohai: I must say hanbot - awesum outfit.	[22:05]
asciilifeform	in unrelated nyooz, my rom emulator is here.	[22:05]
asciilifeform	and holy shit, the chassis is ~steel~	[22:06]
asciilifeform	'made in usa'	[22:06]
shinohai	O.o	[22:06]
asciilifeform	i can almost imagine i live in 1980.	[22:06]
shinohai	pics?	[22:06]
asciilifeform	https://www.eetools.com/images/products/eerom_accessaries.jpg	[22:07]
asciilifeform	^ it	[22:07]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QCWAP1 )	[22:07]
asciilifeform	pretty common unit.	[22:08]
shinohai	That looks fun. :D	[22:08]
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shinohai	BingoBoingo: did you see what they called in to get that hamplanet off the truck today? https://vid.me/2Z7A	[22:12]
assbot	2016-03-07 170122000 4A542 iOS - vidme ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCX1bW )	[22:12]
BingoBoingo	shinohai: Can you give me a quick ;tldw	[22:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15146 @ 0.00053398 = 8.0877 BTC [-]	[22:12]
shinohai	'twas a special "HEavy Rescue Unit"	[22:13]
shinohai	I kek'd	[22:13]
BingoBoingo	lol	[22:14]
mod6	haha	[22:14]
shinohai	I almost felt sorry for the cops tasked with detaining her.	[22:15]
BingoBoingo	she prolly pooped in the car	[22:16]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:18]
shinohai	I was actually surprised the roof of the truck didn't collapse under the weight.	[22:22]
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BingoBoingo	Beetus https://i.sli.mg/0fDvlN.png	[22:30]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1p3z9DU )	[22:30]
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shinohai	Well at least you won't have to worry about her running around on you!	[22:34]
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mod6	haha shinohai	[22:46]
asciilifeform	mod6: mega-l0gz	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	with note: Thinks screaming at the dike plugs the hole <<< wait, did i just get called a fat homosexual woman ?	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> i can almost imagine i live in 1980. << the things one yearns for	[22:53]
*	mircea_popescu thought the 80s fucking sucked. then again, back then hadn't seen the 90s. 00s. 10s. etc.	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	shinohai no, that is PRECISELY what you'll have to worry about : her running around ON you.	[22:54]
asciilifeform	everyone thinks this. until the world is replaced with brittle plastic.	[22:54]
asciilifeform	and half-working machinery.	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	absence of cool is no cooling of absence tho. 80s still fucking sucked.	[22:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45410 @ 0.00053198 = 24.1572 BTC [-] {2}	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	what was it, cher on every channel and the velvet fog on every radio ?	[22:55]
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*	asciilifeform goes, and looks up, what was a cher, and what is a velvet fog.	[23:04]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> mod6: mega-l0gz << oh yeah, been reading all day.	[23:05]
BingoBoingo	cher is a sort of kaiju	[23:05]
asciilifeform	wats a kaiju	[23:06]
*	BingoBoingo assumes velvet fog is a tropical illness	[23:06]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: a kaiju is one of those japanese monster from the films with the people in the suits	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	sometimes if you crack open an acaju nut, a tiny girl comes out, and you feed her various comestibles and eventually grows up into a slavegirl.	[23:06]
asciilifeform	godzilla?	[23:06]
BingoBoingo	godzilla, cher, et al	[23:07]
BingoBoingo	yes	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	and this my dear alf is how slaves are born on the planet gor.	[23:07]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i thought this was how you got momotaro, the peach pit samurai.	[23:07]
asciilifeform	who slays ogres.	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	also.	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	;;google velvet fog best of in autoplay format that can't be turned off. ever.	[23:08]
gribble	Preview Unreal Engine 4.11 Preview [Archive] - Unreal Engine Forums: ; 2015 Chrysler 300: ; Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - Zone Doubt (aka Surreal Я Us):	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	holy shit ?!	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform anyway, cher was a teenage pop singer chick that successfully pivoted into a sort of softcore burlesque career pre dita von teese. also married to sony bono.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	and the velvet fog aka mel torme was this very soppy lounge act / singer mostly on the old vegas circuit.	[23:11]
*	p15 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[23:13]
*	p15 (~p15@153.91.145.64.unassigned.bringover.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:16]
*	justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[23:21]
*	CrazyTruthYakDDS (uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wtkjhqagldfceeke) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147450 @ 0.00053198 = 78.4405 BTC [-]	[23:37]
*	AaronvanW_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[23:42]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[23:49]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.9, vol: 5713.29998851 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.216, vol: 7342.69249 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 413.65, vol: 14857.74689053 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 3.54660738 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.047083, vol: 46801.24770000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 410.288, vol: 1164.83181327 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.484368, vol: 34.89035527 \| Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)	[23:49]
*	justanotheruser (~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:50]
BingoBoingo	;;more	[23:53]
gribble	417.001259016	[23:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1947 @ 0.00053397 = 1.0396 BTC [+] {2}	[23:55]

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