Forum logs for 07 Jul 2013

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.040501 = 0.162 BTC [-] [00:00]
assbot [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 15 @ 0.186 = 2.79 BTC [+] [00:02]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.04098 BTC [+] [00:02]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 41 @ 0.030299 = 1.2423 BTC [+] [00:02]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 20 @ 0.0303 = 0.606 BTC [+] [00:02]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 9 @ 0.03049 = 0.2744 BTC [+] [00:02]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 2 @ 0.030497 = 0.061 BTC [+] [00:02]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 15 @ 0.030499 = 0.4575 BTC [+] [00:02]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 109 @ 0.00099 = 0.1079 BTC [-] [00:04]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 17 @ 0.031 = 0.527 BTC [+] [00:04]
assbot [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 47 @ 0.001899 = 0.0893 BTC [+] [00:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0409 BTC [-] [00:12]
assbot [BTCTC] [BMF] 4 @ 0.034 = 0.136 BTC [-] [00:12]
furuknap ;;nethash [00:13]
gribble 175663.636948 [00:13]
furuknap ;;bcstats [00:13]
gribble Current Blocks: 245169 | Current Difficulty: 2.1335329113983E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 245951 | Next Difficulty In: 782 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 3 hours, 49 minutes, and 47 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 25127864.7628 | Estimated Percent Change: 17.77585 [00:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5424 @ 0.00080573 = 4.3703 BTC [-] [00:15]
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assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 25 @ 0.019 = 0.475 BTC [-] [00:23]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040958 BTC [+] [00:29]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040959 BTC [+] [00:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5273 @ 0.00080891 = 4.2654 BTC [+] [00:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00080901 = 6.7148 BTC [+] [00:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1060 @ 0.00080941 = 0.858 BTC [+] [00:29]
assbot [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0055 BTC [-] [00:29]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 31 @ 0.004296 = 0.1332 BTC [-] [00:30]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.0021 BTC [-] [00:31]
assbot [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.001651 BTC [-] [00:31]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 3 @ 0.00168 = 0.005 BTC [-] [00:32]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 50 @ 0.00168 = 0.084 BTC [-] [00:32]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.041006 = 0.4101 BTC [-] [00:33]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 9 @ 0.00162 = 0.0146 BTC [-] [00:34]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004689 BTC [+] [00:36]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 13 @ 0.00162 = 0.0211 BTC [-] [00:36]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.041479 BTC [+] [00:38]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040959 BTC [+] [00:43]
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assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 3 @ 0.00191 = 0.0057 BTC [-] [00:46]
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assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 107 @ 0.049083 = 5.2519 BTC [-] [00:52]
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assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00243 BTC [-] [00:56]
assbot [BTCTC] [BFMINES] 1 @ 0.004 BTC [+] [00:56]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 26 @ 0.049083 = 1.2762 BTC [-] [00:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4641 @ 0.00080941 = 3.7565 BTC [+] [01:02]
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cads hey has anyone done a study about the marketing impact that offering bitcoin payments in webstores has on traditional payments? [01:03]
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cads one basic question - when would offering bitcoin tend to scare off regular customers? [01:04]
cads and vice versa - when would regular customers be more likely to purchase from you because they see that you also take bitcoin? [01:05]
cads I'm sure similar questions have been asked in the past by vendors considering adding, for example, a paypal payment option to their webstore [01:06]
cads or by traditional stored considering accepting credit card payment in addition to cash payments [01:07]
cads in the last case, at some point, store owners may have feared that accepting credit cards might not bring enough customers to justify the cost of the machine [01:08]
cads in the case of bitcoin, in the current atmosphere, web store owners might worry that adding bitcoin payment options might de-legitimize their business in the eyes of many customers [01:09]
cads this is because many people are afraid, mistrusting, or simply ignorant of bitcoin [01:10]
assbot [BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 1 @ 1.42 BTC [+] [01:10]
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emptyeddepended do you think so? i'd say it depends on the website. if it's filled with hundreds of shady payment choices, it's not good anyway, but i see no reason to not accept bitcoin. most people don't know about it and the worst reaction which could happen might be "what? bitcoin? isn't that the internet currency? wow.. it really gets attention nowadays" [01:14]
cads yeah [01:14]
emptyeddepended but i can't supply hard facts though :/ [01:14]
emptyeddepended there are some bigger players already accepting.. like wordpress [01:15]
emptyeddepended and spotify soon [01:15]
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cads if your customers are techies, there's a good chance that adding that bitcoin payment button will increase customer conversion rates even in customers that don't use bitcoin [01:15]
mircea_popescu cads i really have no idea who'd be repelled by bitcoin [01:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11793 @ 0.000807 = 9.517 BTC [-] [01:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6676 @ 0.00080573 = 5.3791 BTC [-] [01:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00080492 = 4.3466 BTC [-] [01:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7830 @ 0.00080364 = 6.2925 BTC [-] [01:17]
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emptyeddepended cads do you plan integrating bitcoin or just asking out of curiosity? [01:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00080347 = 7.3919 BTC [-] [01:17]
cads the former [01:17]
cads mircea_popescu: there is a large fraction of regular people that are instinctively mistrustful of bitcoin - there has been talk of people using it for tax evasion and money laundering, there is bitcoin's use in the silk road that leaves a bad taste in most people's mouths. [01:18]
cads worst, there has been talk about government sanctions of the digital currency - lots of regular late adopters and conservative types instinctively avoid it [01:18]
cads but then a webstore catering to early adopters, techies, and people with an anarchocapitalist bent, I'm sure bitcoin support can be a boon. [01:19]
cads *for a webstore [01:19]
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jurov and there's that "it's just ponzi" kind [01:20]
cads I'm wondering if there's any business data available here. [01:20]
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cads I have an idea of how a webstore could test what effect bitcoin support has on its conversion rate [01:21]
cads and this could be fairly discreet [01:21]
mircea_popescu a/b split ? [01:21]
cads simply give a small percentage of your customers the option to use bitcoin [01:22]
kakobrekla i doubt that thing is measurable [01:22]
cads and analyze the conversion rate [01:22]
jurov counting referrals from bitcoin-related sites? [01:22]
mircea_popescu anyway, i've yet to comprehend this. i think paying attention to what people say (like on their own shitty blogs) is a waste. [01:22]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.04148 = 0.2489 BTC [+] [01:22]
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mircea_popescu nobody will NOT use a service they were going to use because there's more ways to pay than the one they use [01:22]
mircea_popescu it's not yet happened, this. [01:22]
cads okay, so [01:22]
mircea_popescu like, not go to a restaurant because they take both visa and maestro and you hjate maestro ? lol. [01:22]
cads your store says "we now take drugs as payment!" [01:23]
cads ... [01:23]
jurov that's hardly comparable [01:24]
mircea_popescu indeed. [01:24]
cads to my thought, this could easily reduce the legitimacy of your store [01:24]
jurov the "ponzi" people are vocal, but very few [01:24]
mircea_popescu i mean sure there's idiots boycotting this or that because they kill bunnies or w/e. [01:24]
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emptyeddepended cads news reports aren't that bad, are they? [01:24]
mircea_popescu i doubt anyone cares. the recent internet bullshit trying to bother some restaurant resulted in more customers rather than less. [01:24]
cads emptyeddepended: I dunno, there was talk about BTC receiving scrutiny from a US financial regulatory body recently [01:26]
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cads mt gox had one of its stateside accounts frozen, or something [01:26]
jurov there was much bigger talk about that winklevoess etf nonsense [01:27]
cads My point being that the average person who has a 50% chance of not having hear about bitcoin at all, will, if you ask them about it, with 80% probability tell you that what they've heard about it is worrying [01:27]
cads at least here in the states, the average person may be more optimistic in europe [01:28]
jurov cads, you're now just pulling numbers out of the ass [01:28]
jurov we have google trends and other stuff you can actually use [01:28]
jurov instead of worrying here ;) [01:28]
cads jurov: who's worried, lol [01:29]
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emptyeddepended how does google trends help in this matter? [01:29]
emptyeddepended google news + "bitcoin" would do though :) [01:30]
jurov it tries to show most influential news. you can check whether they are pos or neg [01:30]
benkay +1 for split testing [01:30]
emptyeddepended i see [01:30]
cads I'm simply proposing an experiment, and suggesting that my real life experience interviewing various people (people who are _not_, as a rule, very connected to the social network sphere or the blogsphere) suggests that BTC is a point of contention for many people. [01:31]
cads this is not a bad thing, don't treat me as if I'm trying to rain on some parade [01:31]
benkay split test all the things [01:31]
benkay data is the ultimate arbiter [01:31]
cads I agree there [01:32]
emptyeddepended no, don''t get me wrong. i honor your opinion, but i for myself are super bullish and optimistic [01:32]
jurov point of contention is different than worrying [01:32]
benkay let's reframe then, shall we? [01:32]
cads sure [01:32]
emptyeddepended here is another scenario: let's say people do think bitcoin is bad. what do you think would happen, if amazon.com announces they start accepting btc? [01:32]
benkay has anyone tested impact of accepting btc on conversion rates? [01:32]
jurov kim dotcom? [01:33]
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mircea_popescu so far namecheap is taking btc, i have yet to hear any bitchin'. [01:33]
jurov or wordpress [01:34]
mircea_popescu and for that matter wordpress [01:34]
mircea_popescu so yeah, you're hardly in the weird forrest of novelty here. [01:34]
jurov in wp case the buzz looked overwhelmingly positive [01:34]
thestringpuller Dude [01:34]
thestringpuller ;;ticker [01:34]
gribble MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 69.79976, Best ask: 70.35900, Bid-ask spread: 0.55924, Last trade: 70.36499, 24 hour volume: 41641.06437256, 24 hour low: 66.81190, 24 hour high: 74.99997, 24 hour vwap: 70.17329 [01:34]
thestringpuller what am I missing [01:34]
benkay out of the weird forest of novelty doesn't mean anything when trying to figure out affect of widget implementation on bounce rates [01:35]
cads I'm sure that various hybric bitcoin/traditional vendors have done that in a phase before adding bitcoin support, and I'm willing to hazard it generally the experiment is a positive for most vendors that even considers adding BTC support [01:35]
cads s/hybric/hybrid [01:35]
cads so far I've heard some rhetoric and no numbers [01:37]
cads numbers will be nice, I think we'll all agree [01:37]
jurov you heard some names, try asking there [01:37]
benkay cads where are you considering implementing? [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 50 @ 0.041009 = 2.0505 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.041008 = 0.8202 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.041005 = 0.205 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 80 @ 0.0405 = 3.24 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.040404 = 0.202 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.040402 = 0.404 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 65 @ 0.0404 = 2.626 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 100 @ 0.0402 = 4.02 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 84 @ 0.04012 = 3.3701 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.040112 = 0.4011 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 83 @ 0.04011 = 3.3291 BTC [-] [01:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 238 @ 0.0401 = 9.5438 BTC [-] [01:37]
jurov and maybe also ask yourself if your service will be used by people who can't/don't want to use credit card or paypal [01:38]
cads benkay: an NFC tag webstore that also takes bitcoin [01:38]
Blastbob Biggest tech site in norway accepts bitcoin for "premium" account [01:39]
Blastbob hardware.no [01:39]
Blastbob suprised me :) [01:39]
benkay (just because lots of people do a thing does not mean that it is a good idea. data answers that.) [01:39]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004689 BTC [+] [01:39]
benkay cads: can I get a link? [01:39]
cads the idea is just, you know, offer bitcoin payment as something to differentiate us from other stores selling NFC tags [01:39]
emptyeddepended i'm sorry, i mentioned spotify, but what i meant was shopify... christian@shopify.com was responsive, when i asked for confirmation of a planned bitcoin integration [01:40]
cads benkay: right now I just have some tags in the mail, that I'll be putting up on an associate's existing ebay store [01:40]
benkay I imagine eBay won't be terribly pleased to hear that you accept payment methods they don't get a slice of... [01:41]
benkay ;) [01:41]
cads benkay: I don't think they'll have much room to complain, as long as I don't link customers from the ebay store to my store [01:42]
benkay +1 [01:42]
cads for now I'm just playing around with webstore techs - thinking of magento, and, funny enough, shopify :) [01:42]
jurov cads, that could be successful if more btc-related service, such as (example idea) nfc tags with vanity addresses [01:43]
cads sites like tagstand.com have been successful (I don't know how successful) offering an inventory of NFC tags at low volume/high cost, at the same time as offering a free NFC based task manager app [01:44]
cads actually, tag stand is the only example I can cite, here in the US [01:45]
benkay i recommend against magento [01:45]
benkay but have nothing to suggest in its place :( [01:45]
cads sure, what are you thoughts behind that? [01:46]
benkay well, my advice may be premature optimization for your use case [01:46]
cads why recommend against magento, I mean? [01:46]
cads so far all I've done is.. download a magento virtual machine [01:48]
benkay i just wrapped an epic migration from magento 1.3 community to enterprise [01:48]
benkay and aside from the conceived-in-hell EAV data store they fucked up [01:48]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.041895 = 0.1257 BTC [+] [01:48]
benkay it just falls over on basic stuff like search [01:48]
benkay plus php is not a great choice for us-based dev teams [01:49]
cads I haven't even run it - I have a lot more experience with wordpress, but that experience makes me want to stay away from using WP as a storefront [01:49]
cads I know there are a few ruby/rails based options, [01:49]
benkay i just wrapped an epic migration from magento 1.3 community to enterprise [01:49]
benkay and aside from the conceived-in-hell EAV data store they fucked up [01:49]
benkay derp derp derp [01:49]
cads :D [01:49]
benkay if you don't mind hiring "experts" from all around the world to make your application dance, it's probably a solid choice [01:50]
benkay what are your engineering requirements? [01:50]
benkay do you need to be able to hire dirt-cheap PHP jockeys or will you and your friends maintain it yourself? [01:50]
benkay yourselves* [01:50]
cads in the long run I might prefer the PHP route rather than derp around with effete rubyists [01:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.194995 BTC [+] [01:51]
benkay lulz [01:51]
cads being that I'm a semi-rubyist, in the short term I might like a ruby based option [01:51]
benkay my problem is not effete rubyists, it's rails brogrammers [01:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.04189 = 0.2932 BTC [-] [01:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.041895 = 0.8379 BTC [+] [01:52]
benkay ruby works just fine (again, premature optimization alert), but it's incredibly easy to make a non-performant site in it [01:52]
cads to be honest I don't really see many reasons to swing one way or another at this point [01:53]
cads and this is probably my inexperience speaking [01:53]
benkay also look into magento's continuous integration environment [01:54]
benkay which, man, i have no idea how rigorously you want to build your store [01:54]
cads i like the idea of magento since it's got a big community and good documentation [01:54]
cads yeah, this is the first webstore I'd be building [01:54]
benkay heh. are you looking to become a magento expert? you can probably make more money doing that than operating your own store. [01:54]
benkay if you're doing webdev in the states and want to invest in skills that will be attractive to the people who hire devs and dev teams, i would avoid php. [01:55]
benkay but at the end of the day, languages are just languages, and anything you can do in one you can do in another [01:55]
cads turing tar pit :P [01:55]
benkay that said [01:56]
benkay some languages lend themselves to developer productivity [01:56]
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benkay now, if you're just deploying capital, who cares about developer productivity [01:56]
cads http://www.tagstand.com/ [01:56]
ozbot NFC Tags and Applications - Tagstand [01:56]
cads here's what I'd like to imitate [01:56]
cads aka steal wholesale :D [01:56]
cads I don't want to innovate for now [01:57]
cads I don't think that store has any particularly challenging engineering [01:57]
benkay dat bootstrap [01:57]
benkay it's just a CRUD app man [01:57]
benkay do it in your favorite language [01:57]
cads and I'm working on an open source project with the programmer that programmed tagstand's NFC app [01:57]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [02:01]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading, I heard. [02:01]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Tue May 14 16:38:49 2013 [02:01]
benkay i recently switched wholesale to clojure [02:02]
cads python's community /is/ pretty awesome for scientific programming / math programming [02:02]
benkay oh fuck yeah [02:02]
benkay that's how i started programming. controls systems in python and matlab. [02:02]
cads so it may be time to speak python, period [02:02]
benkay ruby really ain't that great for?stuff. [02:03]
benkay it's great for the web, though! [02:03]
benkay you can totally learn to code your biz site, bro! [02:03]
mircea_popescu no it's not. [02:03]
benkay it'll be great! [02:03]
mircea_popescu it's great for being owned on the web [02:03]
benkay your cluster will erupt in flames under its first real load! [02:03]
mircea_popescu like half of the bitcoin heists are traceable to ruby being a promiscuous piece of shit [02:03]
benkay mp i'm kidding [02:04]
cads I mean, I love ruby, and with JRuby I might be able to expect decent runtimes - I know python is compiled now and is supposed to be blazing [02:04]
cads but.. well [02:04]
benkay forget speed [02:04]
benkay not your problem [02:04]
benkay your problem is picking a language to live and breathe for the next n time periods [02:04]
benkay that is if you want to get good at the thing [02:05]
benkay if you just want to write passable code and pull down paychecks... [02:05]
cads ruby has always been a convenience thing - object oriented programming is much more light weight and actually tolerable compared to, say, java or (god forbid) c++ [02:05]
cads it's got groovy zen introspection, like your smalltalk [02:05]
cads it's got lambdas and other things that evoke the feeling of functional programming [02:06]
cads (my main language of choice is haskell) [02:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 17 @ 0.004301 = 0.0731 BTC [-] [02:06]
benkay oh man [02:06]
Apocalyptic (my main language of choice is haskell) // nice [02:06]
benkay if you're a func-y, just spend the time to learn clojure. [02:06]
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benkay well, nvm. [02:06]
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cads really my one peeve with python is that its asshole creator once made a statement completely discounting lambdas [02:07]
cads ... it's an immature reason to judge the language [02:07]
Apocalyptic i find haskell really awesome, after having some functional prog background with OCaml mostly [02:07]
benkay yeah, i wouldn't put that in the evaluation matrix [02:07]
cads benkay: tell me about your experience with clojure? [02:07]
benkay *swoon* [02:07]
cads I tried it a few years back [02:08]
benkay i'll embarras myself, man [02:08]
benkay embarass* [02:08]
cads well, commercial experience [02:08]
benkay interop with all of the things! [02:08]
cads ah, yeah [02:08]
benkay write your full stack in one language [02:08]
cads been thinking of scala for that [02:08]
benkay call functions client-side in ClojureScript and execute them on the server in Clojure [02:08]
cads kind of like a web-appropriate haskell [02:09]
benkay it is also a lisp. [02:09]
benkay did you get a chance to play with ClojureScript? [02:09]
benkay probably not, back then. [02:09]
cads I don't think it existed back then [02:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 30 @ 0.019 = 0.57 BTC [-] [02:09]
benkay well, professionally it's always a tough sell. [02:09]
benkay except with clients who want to own and maintain the application. [02:10]
benkay except -> especially [02:10]
cads hmm, I can has clojurescript as a replacement of javascript? [02:10]
benkay yes. [02:10]
cads sold. [02:10]
benkay that's the point. [02:10]
benkay see? [02:10]
benkay full-stack lisp [02:10]
benkay you just got half your brain back. [02:10]
benkay https://github.com/magomimmo/modern-cljs [02:11]
benkay start there [02:11]
benkay however it's not ecom ready. [02:11]
cads I'm suddenly very interested to find out what web platforms clojure has acretted in the time I've been away from it [02:11]
ThickAsThieves I know i'm late commenting, but in general, offering more payment methods will likely only have one negative consideration. It may act as a distraction. For web shopping, most any "step" or "option" is a potential moment of distraction. Each of these moments can be considered an obstactle to a sale, the goal being to have the least amount of resistance between the impulse to buy and [02:12]
ThickAsThieves completing a purchase. [02:12]
cads I'm sure there's a blog [02:12]
jcpham http://pit.btcmu.org/ [02:12]
ozbot Miner Stats [02:12]
ThickAsThieves if you user has not heard of bitcoin you may incite them to learn [02:12]
* jcpham still has more erupters to bring online [02:12]
ThickAsThieves an thus be distracted [02:12]
zebedee_ .bait [02:12]
ozbot http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdwmwptcyv1qdwh13o1_500.jpg [02:12]
cads I'm hoping clojure has a ecommerce solution [02:13]
benkay clojure is evolving towards pluggable modules [02:13]
benkay nah, not yet. [02:13]
cads guessing it has a more nuts and bolts rails-alike [02:13]
benkay django is the batteries-included thing [02:13]
benkay rails, meh. [02:13]
benkay php, kill me now. [02:13]
* cads likes batteries included [02:13]
benkay yeah man [02:13]
cads hates rails [02:13]
cads loves ruby [02:13]
benkay if all you want is a thing that serves stuff and is reasonably secure and performant and well documented, django's your gig [02:14]
benkay i typically recommend it as a good framework for apps that clients want to maintain themselves, or be able to hire people to maintain themselves [02:14]
cads php definitely has gamed the "worse is better" aspect very well [02:14]
cads and I hate to give it to it, but worpress is great, and the actual PHP you have to do to use it is very very minimal, even when you're writing your own theme [02:15]
benkay yo dawg [02:16]
benkay we herd u can't code [02:16]
benkay so we took the code out of your code [02:16]
benkay so now you can web while you bro [02:16]
* cads derps while he derps [02:16]
benkay there is also the unquantifiable upside to writing the building blocks of a new ecosystem of web tech tools [02:17]
benkay clojure's still young enough for that [02:17]
benkay and it won't garner you fame or anything - everyone will always hate lisps [02:18]
benkay but you'll be happy :) [02:18]
benkay well, you *may* be happy. i have no idea. [02:18]
cads lol, even I hate lisp, mostly because it feels like someone was too lazy to write a parser [02:18]
cads although I have great fun using it, oddly [02:19]
cads but.. emacs lisp, for example? [02:19]
cads *revilement* [02:19]
benkay so many people have spilled so much ink on the topic of languages [02:20]
benkay i use what i feel like using when engineering req's don't clearly dictate alternatives, and when they do?i follow their directives. [02:20]
benkay engineering/business req's [02:21]
cads yeah, I don't want to put negative words to lisp, mostly since I don't have the experience to have that right [02:21]
benkay you could probably burn through joy of clojure pretty quickly [02:21]
benkay i liked that book [02:22]
cads I'll try and open my mind here - I really love the idea of clojurescript [02:22]
benkay *shrug* [02:22]
benkay i have zero investment in your choice of languages. [02:22]
assbot [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 42 @ 0.001651 = 0.0693 BTC [-] [02:22]
benkay but an open mind towards programming paradigms has a lot of value to the programmer [02:22]
cads sure, and I want to get over prejudices in my choice [02:22]
benkay whether the programmer has any value with those paradigms is a wholly different topic [02:23]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 19 @ 0.004301 = 0.0817 BTC [-] [02:23]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 3 @ 0.0019 = 0.0057 BTC [+] [02:24]
* Chilca has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:24]
cads definitely a JVM language will be great to have when/if I need to do android dev [02:25]
cads oh grovvy https://github.com/remvee/clojurehelloandroid [02:27]
benkay yeah man [02:28]
benkay clojure was designed to be hosted on all of the machines [02:28]
benkay the mobile integrations aren't quiiiite there yet, but getting close for sure [02:28]
benkay http://keminglabs.com/blog/angular-cljs-weather-app/ [02:28]
ozbot Building an iOS weather app with Angular and ClojureScript [02:29]
* Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-91-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:30]
* metabyte_ is now known as metabyte [02:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0404205 BTC [-] [02:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.04042 BTC [-] [02:33]
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* ryan1894 (ryan1894@60-242-86-127.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:35]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 20 @ 0.018303 = 0.3661 BTC [-] [02:36]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.018302 BTC [-] [02:36]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 20 @ 0.0183 = 0.366 BTC [-] [02:36]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 85 @ 0.018201 = 1.5471 BTC [-] [02:36]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 10 @ 0.01811 = 0.1811 BTC [-] [02:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163 @ 0.00080267 = 0.1308 BTC [-] [02:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6137 @ 0.0008024 = 4.9243 BTC [-] [02:37]
cads thanks for the conversation, benkay! [02:37]
cads I enjoyed it a lot, and you've given me some awesome directions to investigate [02:37]
benkay anytime [02:37]
benkay hey cads, check your pms [02:38]
furuknap I find it interesting how people seem incapable of seeing others as not having their own characteristics. [02:39]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 2 @ 0.004301 = 0.0086 BTC [-] [02:46]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0404155 BTC [-] [02:48]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.03960201 = 0.2376 BTC [-] [02:49]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.3515 BTC [-] [02:50]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0403 BTC [+] [02:50]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.04029 BTC [-] [02:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 1357 @ 0.00163 = 2.2119 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 36 @ 0.001629 = 0.0586 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 100 @ 0.001626 = 0.1626 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 100 @ 0.001619 = 0.1619 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 1 @ 0.001618 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 50 @ 0.001616 = 0.0808 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 150 @ 0.001615 = 0.2423 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 500 @ 0.001606 = 0.803 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 100 @ 0.001605 = 0.1605 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 2606 @ 0.001601 = 4.1722 BTC [-] [02:52]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0404 BTC [+] [02:52]
* Chilca has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:52]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.0404 = 0.2424 BTC [+] [02:52]
* rulother has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [02:53]
assbot [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.186 BTC [+] [02:57]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.3515 BTC [-] [02:58]
* GordonG3kko (~GordonG3k@gateway/tor-sasl/gordong3kko) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:02]
* toffoo (~tof@179.218.76.107) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:04]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 132 @ 0.00251 = 0.3313 BTC [+] [03:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.041 BTC [-] [03:09]
* Vbs (~Vbs@unaffiliated/vbs) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:10]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 15 @ 0.02962 = 0.4443 BTC [-] [03:13]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 40 @ 0.0296 = 1.184 BTC [-] [03:13]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 5 @ 0.004301 = 0.0215 BTC [-] [03:14]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 8 @ 0.00243 = 0.0194 BTC [-] [03:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 200 @ 0.00243 = 0.486 BTC [-] [03:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17651 @ 0.00080347 = 14.182 BTC [+] [03:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 7 @ 0.00243 = 0.017 BTC [-] [03:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 849 @ 0.00080534 = 0.6837 BTC [+] [03:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 12 @ 0.0024 = 0.0288 BTC [-] [03:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 500 @ 0.002399 = 1.1995 BTC [-] [03:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 355 @ 0.002372 = 0.8421 BTC [-] [03:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 4 @ 0.0185 = 0.074 BTC [+] [03:18]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 10 @ 0.018002 = 0.18 BTC [-] [03:18]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.018 BTC [-] [03:19]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.01651 BTC [-] [03:19]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.0165 BTC [-] [03:19]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 11 @ 0.0163 = 0.1793 BTC [-] [03:19]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 31 @ 0.016001 = 0.496 BTC [-] [03:20]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.016 BTC [-] [03:20]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.016 BTC [-] [03:20]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.016 BTC [-] [03:20]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.0159 BTC [-] [03:21]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 8 @ 0.0159 = 0.1272 BTC [-] [03:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7932 @ 0.00080534 = 6.388 BTC [+] [03:27]
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* Blastbob (~Blastbob@unaffiliated/blastbob) has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:32]
* BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [03:36]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.041591 BTC [+] [03:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.04062 BTC [+] [03:44]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040612 BTC [-] [03:44]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 57 @ 0.040613 = 2.3149 BTC [+] [03:45]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040613 BTC [+] [03:45]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040614 BTC [+] [03:45]
* error4739 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [03:45]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.04096 = 0.1229 BTC [+] [03:48]
* inhies has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [03:49]
* Vbs has quit (Quit: Leaving) [03:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 7 @ 0.183 = 1.281 BTC [-] [03:56]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 198 @ 0.002549 = 0.5047 BTC [+] [04:01]
* Apocalyptic has quit (Quit: Leaving) [04:02]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.9 = 1.8 BTC [-] [04:07]
* benkay has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) [04:07]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 3 @ 0.004689 = 0.0141 BTC [+] [04:11]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 1 @ 0.001934 BTC [+] [04:13]
* rulother (~rulother@c-71-59-16-33.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:14]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 50 @ 0.0303 = 1.515 BTC [+] [04:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 31 @ 0.049083 = 1.5216 BTC [-] [04:16]
* rulother has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [04:19]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.041583 = 0.0832 BTC [-] [04:20]
* benkay (~benkay@c-71-193-200-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:22]
* rulother (~rulother@c-71-59-16-33.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:24]
* [\] has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [04:26]
assbot [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 5 @ 0.199 = 0.995 BTC [+] [04:28]
* PhantomSpark has quit (Quit: Not all thats glitter is gold not all who wander are lost. - ospwrd.com) [04:28]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.185 BTC [-] [04:28]
* rulother has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [04:28]
* rulother (~rulother@c-71-59-16-33.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:29]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.204995 BTC [+] [04:31]
* [\] (~imsaguy@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:34]
* inhies (~inhies@cpe-76-88-147-181.hawaii.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:41]
* benkay has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) [04:43]
* benkay (~benkay@c-71-193-200-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:44]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.19 BTC [-] [04:44]
* furuknap has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [04:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2963 @ 0.0008024 = 2.3775 BTC [-] [04:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00080131 = 7.2919 BTC [-] [04:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7037 @ 0.00080091 = 5.636 BTC [-] [04:51]
* ThickAsThieves has quit () [04:55]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 31 @ 0.04096 = 1.2698 BTC [+] [04:58]
* ThickAssLaptop has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [04:59]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.04096 = 0.2048 BTC [+] [04:59]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.041 = 0.164 BTC [+] [05:01]
* ThickAsThieves (ThickAsThi@c-98-231-58-41.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:08]
assbot [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 60 @ 0.183 = 10.98 BTC [-] [05:09]
* ThickAsThieves has quit (Changing host) [05:10]
* ThickAsThieves (ThickAsThi@unaffiliated/thickasthieves) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:10]
* so has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [05:11]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 10 @ 0.049083 = 0.4908 BTC [-] [05:16]
* Apocalyptic (~Apocalypt@85-170-112-54.rev.numericable.fr) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:18]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 6 @ 0.030999 = 0.186 BTC [+] [05:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 25 @ 0.1783441 = 4.4586 BTC [-] [05:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 20 @ 0.1783431 = 3.5669 BTC [-] [05:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 11 @ 0.17834209 = 1.9618 BTC [-] [05:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.17833805 BTC [-] [05:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 43 @ 0.178334 = 7.6684 BTC [-] [05:18]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 462 @ 0.001623 = 0.7498 BTC [-] [05:27]
* ThickAsThieves has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [05:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.041 = 0.123 BTC [+] [05:32]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 147 @ 0.040611 = 5.9698 BTC [-] [05:34]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 146 @ 0.040611 = 5.9292 BTC [-] [05:35]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 196 @ 0.040611 = 7.9598 BTC [-] [05:35]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 84 @ 0.040611 = 3.4113 BTC [-] [05:36]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.040611 = 0.4061 BTC [-] [05:36]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 30 @ 0.040611 = 1.2183 BTC [-] [05:36]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.041 BTC [+] [05:37]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 64 @ 0.040611 = 2.5991 BTC [-] [05:38]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.040611 = 0.1218 BTC [-] [05:39]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 20 @ 0.040611 = 0.8122 BTC [-] [05:39]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040611 BTC [-] [05:39]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.040836 = 0.2042 BTC [+] [05:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040611 BTC [-] [05:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.040611 = 0.0812 BTC [-] [05:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040611 BTC [-] [05:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.040612 = 0.0812 BTC [+] [05:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.040611 = 0.0812 BTC [-] [05:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.04061 BTC [-] [05:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.040611 BTC [+] [05:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.0407 = 0.2035 BTC [+] [05:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 27 @ 0.040405 = 1.0909 BTC [-] [05:43]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 23 @ 0.041239 = 0.9485 BTC [-] [05:46]
thestringpuller i wonder how much of the money taken from ASICMINER went into MPOE or where it went in general ;P [05:47]
* ThickAsThieves (ThickAsThi@c-98-231-58-41.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:49]
* ThickAsThieves has quit (Changing host) [05:50]
* ThickAsThieves (ThickAsThi@unaffiliated/thickasthieves) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:50]
Namworld taken from ASICMINER? [05:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 6 @ 0.004689 = 0.0281 BTC [+] [05:54]
thestringpuller Money moved out of ASICMINER slowly since dividend payment. [05:56]
thestringpuller !ticker btctc bitvps [05:56]
assbot [BTCT:BITVPS] 1D: 0.00152 / 0.00166 / 0.001995 (992 shares, 1.6 BTC), 7D: 0.00089 / 0.00139 / 0.0035 (16151 shares, 22.4 BTC), 30D: 0.000637 / 0.00112 / 0.0035 (43883 shares, 49.3 BTC) [05:56]
assbot [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 18 @ 0.001787 = 0.0322 BTC [+] [05:56]
thestringpuller I wouldn't pay money out on dividends for BITVPS. [05:57]
thestringpuller You should put anything that would go as dividends into cash on hand, and invest. :P [05:57]
Namworld ehrm... that's not the purpose of BitVPS [06:01]
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* malaimo (~malaimo@unaffiliated/malaimo) has joined #bitcoin-assets [06:04]
thestringpuller Amazon it up yo [06:06]
thestringpuller no? [06:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 50 @ 0.002377 = 0.1189 BTC [-] [06:07]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 61 @ 0.002199 = 0.1341 BTC [+] [06:08]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.002199 BTC [+] [06:08]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 200 @ 0.002378 = 0.4756 BTC [+] [06:10]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 220 @ 0.002199 = 0.4838 BTC [+] [06:10]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 604 @ 0.002377 = 1.4357 BTC [-] [06:11]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 328 @ 0.002199 = 0.7213 BTC [+] [06:12]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 155 @ 0.0022 = 0.341 BTC [+] [06:12]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.040501 = 0.4455 BTC [-] [06:13]
assbot [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 151 @ 0.002375 = 0.3586 BTC [+] [06:13]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.0405 = 0.405 BTC [-] [06:13]
* [7] has quit (Disconnected by services) [06:14]
* TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) has joined #bitcoin-assets [06:14]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.04041 = 0.2021 BTC [-] [06:14]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0405 BTC [+] [06:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.040401 = 0.202 BTC [-] [06:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 45 @ 0.040401 = 1.818 BTC [-] [06:16]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.0404 = 0.202 BTC [-] [06:17]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 25 @ 0.040219 = 1.0055 BTC [-] [06:17]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 12 @ 0.0401 = 0.4812 BTC [-] [06:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.041 = 0.082 BTC [+] [06:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 8 @ 0.041 = 0.328 BTC [+] [06:18]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.04001 = 0.12 BTC [-] [06:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 29 @ 0.041 = 1.189 BTC [+] [06:20]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 57 @ 0.004689 = 0.2673 BTC [+] [06:22]
thestringpuller !last m s.mpoe [06:24]
assbot Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00080091 BTC [-] [06:24]
thestringpuller !help [06:24]
assbot List of commands: [06:24]
assbot !ticker (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !t} [06:24]
assbot !last (desc: returns last price value, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !l} [06:24]
assbot !mp (desc: returns the response from MPEX order) [06:24]
assbot !rules (desc: chan guidelines) {short: !r} [06:24]
assbot !exchanges (desc: lists exchanges and brokers) {short: !e} [06:24]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.135 BTC [-] [06:27]
assbot [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 5 @ 0.00995 = 0.0498 BTC [-] [06:28]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 48 @ 0.004689 = 0.2251 BTC [+] [06:28]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.13 BTC [-] [06:28]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 82 @ 0.00469 = 0.3846 BTC [+] [06:29]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 500 @ 0.00469 = 2.345 BTC [+] [06:29]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 285 @ 0.0047 = 1.3395 BTC [+] [06:30]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 70 @ 0.0047 = 0.329 BTC [+] [06:30]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.0047 BTC [+] [06:30]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 2 @ 0.00469 = 0.0094 BTC [-] [06:31]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [16:51]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com - most days worth reading, I heard. [16:51]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Tue May 14 16:38:49 2013 [16:51]
mircea_popescu ;;ticker [16:52]
gribble MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 69.00109, Best ask: 69.28796, Bid-ask spread: 0.28687, Last trade: 69.28797, 24 hour volume: 26550.16216519, 24 hour low: 66.60001, 24 hour high: 71.11212, 24 hour vwap: 68.67714 [16:52]
Namworld Ah right... .bait [16:53]
Namworld Ah, mircea. Withdrawals flush please [16:54]
mircea_popescu aite [16:57]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.041157 = 0.0823 BTC [+] [16:59]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.2 BTC [+] [17:01]
* error4739 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [17:03]
* daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [17:06]
mjrIII hi [17:11]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 3 @ 0.019594 = 0.0588 BTC [+] [17:11]
ThickAsThieves Mornin [17:12]
mjrIII how's it going [17:12]
mjrIII i've been doing financial calculations all night and i am so confused [17:12]
Namworld Thank you. [17:12]
Namworld What kind of financial calculations, if I may ask? [17:12]
mjrIII of course [17:13]
mjrIII i am looking to delta hedge positions so i can sell options [17:13]
mjrIII right now, the implied volatility of the options at the prices currently quoted is 300 [17:13]
mjrIII while bitcoin is volatile, it isn't that volatile [17:13]
Namworld The options have a big premium currently [17:14]
mjrIII based on a few different calculations, i think the MAX volatility is 50 [17:14]
Namworld I haven't traded options in a while [17:14]
mjrIII me neither [17:14]
mjrIII because of these huge premiums [17:14]
mjrIII but, if i can sell options, at a much more lower price, i should be able to collect a decent amount of bitcoin [17:15]
mjrIII and that would be where my delta hedging comes in [17:15]
mjrIII but i am still working out the numbers [17:15]
mjrIII if i sell a futures contract at the current price [17:16]
mjrIII $68 let's say [17:16]
mjrIII expiring at months end [17:16]
mjrIII how covered am I if i sell an option that moves inversely [17:17]
mjrIII for example, if i sell the future, i could sell a put [17:17]
mjrIII since i profit from the future's contract if the price goes down, as long as my premium is at a certain price, i won't lose money in the total portfolio though i lose on the put, my future should hedge me [17:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 18 @ 0.0406021 = 0.7308 BTC [-] [17:18]
mjrIII it gets complicated when you start evaluating profits in btc vs profits in usd [17:19]
mjrIII and also, since it is not possible to know how many bitcoins i would need as collateral, there is a little uncertainty in ROI [17:20]
mjrIII and then there is the rolling forward return of the futures contract, which is extremely weird [17:21]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.041157 BTC [+] [17:23]
ThickAsThieves Personally, I wouldn't buy or sell options right now [17:24]
emptyeddepended where can i trade btc/usd futures? [17:24]
ThickAsThieves not without a premium that would make them crap [17:24]
mjrIII hmmm [17:32]
mjrIII for example, i think the 68put is around .3 btc to buy [17:32]
mjrIII what if i offered it at .15 [17:32]
mjrIII curious as to interest levels [17:33]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.300091 BTC [-] [17:33]
Namworld I'll take them at 0.05 a piece [17:35]
ThickAsThieves would you be selling these via mpex? [17:35]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.041157 BTC [+] [17:35]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 4 @ 0.30009 = 1.2004 BTC [-] [17:35]
ThickAsThieves .05 is a bit too low [17:38]
mjrIII yeah way too low [17:38]
mjrIII and yeah, i'd be selling them via mpex [17:39]
ThickAsThieves maybe .1ish would get you attention [17:39]
assbot [BTCTC] [BFMINES] 1000 @ 0.004 = 4 BTC [+] [17:39]
mjrIII so...selling puts at .1 could be interesting [17:39]
Diablo-D3 ;;ticker [17:39]
gribble MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 69.48659, Best ask: 69.50000, Bid-ask spread: 0.01341, Last trade: 69.47957, 24 hour volume: 26399.30211272, 24 hour low: 66.60001, 24 hour high: 71.11212, 24 hour vwap: 68.68513 [17:39]
mjrIII to figure out how hedged I am, i need to calculate the total value of my position over different prices btc/usd [17:39]
mjrIII by the way, using my calculated volatility for bitcoin [17:39]
mjrIII that put should cost around... .0466 btc [17:41]
mjrIII which is probably why namworld said he'd be interesting in buying at .05 [17:41]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 69 @ 0.0025 = 0.1725 BTC [+] [17:41]
mjrIII by the way, to calculate the volatility, i looked at historical data over the last year [17:42]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.01859 BTC [-] [17:42]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 65 @ 0.002525 = 0.1641 BTC [+] [17:42]
ThickAsThieves meanwhile mpex is selling at 0.44439353 [17:42]
mjrIII not only on a daily basis (much lower, but irrelevant for a monthly option) [17:42]
ThickAsThieves what a deal! [17:42]
mjrIII so i looked at the deviation from the mean for each closing month [17:42]
mjrIII mean return that is [17:43]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 15 @ 0.002535 = 0.038 BTC [+] [17:43]
mjrIII and that is still around 23 [17:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 18 @ 0.041979 = 0.7556 BTC [+] [17:43]
mjrIII so i looked at the one month in which volatility was the greatest [17:43]
mjrIII and that is 50 [17:43]
ThickAsThieves mpex is also paying more than Nam [17:43]
ThickAsThieves 0.05840584 [17:43]
mjrIII lol [17:43]
Blastbob sorry.. cant help myself [17:44]
Blastbob .bait [17:44]
ozbot http://25.media.tumblr.com/be4fc61fcb98d455e5c74c31a6aaedc0/tumblr_mgsuk7FnMh1r5cuu2o1_500.jpg [17:44]
mjrIII well, given vol of 50, that option should cost $3 or so [17:44]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 87 @ 0.002545 = 0.2214 BTC [+] [17:44]
ThickAsThieves yknow you can pm ozbot [17:44]
ThickAsThieves fap the day away [17:44]
Blastbob :P [17:44]
Blastbob perfect [17:44]
mjrIII nice tats [17:44]
Scrat spamming a bot for 1 pic at a time = worst way to fap [17:45]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 230 @ 0.00255 = 0.5865 BTC [+] [17:45]
mjrIII lol [17:45]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 6 @ 0.00255 = 0.0153 BTC [+] [17:45]
Blastbob its good teasing [17:45]
Blastbob makes you smile [17:45]
ThickAsThieves Scrat prefers high-speed slideshows [17:45]
mjrIII is that not called a movie? [17:45]
ThickAsThieves :) [17:45]
mjrIII so anyway, i think that the options are really expensive, but it seems to be working for mp, so i understand why he wouldn't offer it cheaper [17:46]
mjrIII but if i CAN, maybe i can make some money [17:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.2 = 8.4 BTC [+] [17:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.2 = 8.4 BTC [+] [17:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.2 BTC [+] [17:46]
mjrIII but i don't want to speculate on the rise and fall of btc prices, i just want to arbitrage [17:46]
ThickAsThieves they aren't working for him currently [17:47]
mjrIII are they not? [17:47]
ThickAsThieves i think last month was his loiwest volume to date [17:47]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.041157 = 0.2058 BTC [+] [17:47]
mjrIII oh, volume still seemed pretty high [17:47]
ThickAsThieves this month not much better [17:47]
ThickAsThieves i could be wrong [17:47]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.041 = 0.164 BTC [-] [17:47]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.041 BTC [-] [17:47]
Scrat ThickAsThieves: http://i.qkme.me/Bb.jpg [17:47]
ThickAsThieves lol [17:47]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.04198 = 0.4198 BTC [+] [17:48]
ThickAsThieves ctril-tab, ctril-tab, ctril-tab, ctril-tab [17:48]
ThickAsThieves ctrl* [17:48]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 74 @ 0.0408 = 3.0192 BTC [-] [17:48]
mjrIII 30 day volume is 71,000 btc... [17:48]
ThickAsThieves mjrIII, http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/mpoe-june-2013-statement/ [17:48]
ThickAsThieves 278 contracts sold [17:49]
ThickAsThieves in June [17:49]
ThickAsThieves "One of the slowest option months in history." [17:50]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004479 BTC [+] [17:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 99 @ 0.00448 = 0.4435 BTC [+] [17:51]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.041169 = 0.2058 BTC [+] [17:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.04117 = 0.8234 BTC [+] [17:52]
* asswatch has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) [17:53]
CheckDavid What is this channel about exactly? [17:54]
ThickAsThieves bitcoin finance [17:54]
mjrIII yeah ok, very low [17:56]
ThickAsThieves I think if another month or two of low sales go by, he'll adjust [17:57]
mjrIII well... [17:57]
kakobrekla mjrIII! the legend, you in panama yet? [17:57]
CheckDavid I was just confused by the lack of info on the website I guess [17:57]
mjrIII he specifically said that because no one is going in the mid market, he is not adjusting [17:57]
mjrIII so if i jump in, he might compete [17:57]
ThickAsThieves most irc channels don't even have websites [17:57]
ThickAsThieves right [17:58]
ThickAsThieves mostly i've been too busy with other areas to fuss over options lately [17:59]
mjrIII i just think that most people would be too scared to writeoptions [17:59]
Diablo-D3 http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/07/05/flattr-adds-support-for-funding-in-bitcoin-flirts-with-option-to-withdraw-in-the-virtual-currency-too/ [17:59]
ThickAsThieves stressing over btc/usd was much less enjoyable than trading assets [17:59]
CheckDavid ThickAsThieves, most websites don't even have irc channels ;) [17:59]
ThickAsThieves well this is an IRC channel with a website [18:00]
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CheckDavid I just can't interpret the syntax used by assbot [18:08]
emptyeddepended [plattform] [symbol] amount @ price [sold/bought] [18:09]
emptyeddepended = [price] xD [18:09]
emptyeddepended ... [18:09]
emptyeddepended u know what i mean [18:09]
emptyeddepended i hope^^ [18:09]
* Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-91-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:12]
mircea_popescu while bitcoin is volatile, it isn't that volatile << so you think. [18:12]
jurov mjrIII, do you think this year's march and april won't happen anymore? [18:13]
mircea_popescu the problem is exactly that. you can end up with 500k btc in liabilities. then what ? [18:14]
mircea_popescu start thinking not from "o i could make some btc" perspective but fgrom the "how could i employ my btc" perspective. [18:15]
mircea_popescu how much premium today would you want to give away your btc capital tomorrow ? [18:15]
assbot [BTCTC] [BFMINES] 500 @ 0.004 = 2 BTC [+] [18:16]
mircea_popescu !ticker btct asicminer-pt [18:17]
assbot [BTCT:ASICMINER-PT] 1D: 4.085 / 4.14438 / 4.29495 (124 shares, 513.9 BTC), 7D: 3.59001 / 4.52831 / 5.17 (5205 shares, 23569.9 BTC), 30D: 2.15 / 3.41124 / 5.17 (17701 shares, 60382.3 BTC) [18:17]
* BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [18:17]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.002545 BTC [-] [18:20]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.139999 BTC [-] [18:26]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 4.13 = 16.52 BTC [-] [18:26]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 4.12 = 20.6 BTC [-] [18:26]
mjrIII good points [18:26]
mjrIII but my point is that when march and april happened, the vol was 50 [18:27]
mjrIII the implied vol by these prices is 300 [18:27]
mjrIII and my goal is to acquire bitcoin [18:27]
mjrIII since i don't have much capital [18:27]
mjrIII in btc [18:27]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.019548 BTC [+] [18:28]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.00448 BTC [+] [18:29]
mjrIII so, if i can "employ my btc" by writing options and collecting premium, while doing it in a fully backed way (not exposed to the risk at the expense of some profits), then that seems like a great way to acquire more btc [18:29]
* rulother has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [18:29]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 2 @ 0.004481 = 0.009 BTC [+] [18:30]
mjrIII and also, hopefully see more volume in options [18:30]
mjrIII as i've said...the goal was not to speculate, the goal was to arbitrage [18:31]
mjrIII mircea_popescu: does that not make sense? [18:31]
jurov well, i did not understand how... you want to hedge by selling futures? [18:32]
mjrIII yes [18:32]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004481 BTC [+] [18:32]
mjrIII so i can build in profits in either direction to offset losses by the options [18:32]
jurov is there a market with matching liquidity/expiration time? [18:32]
mjrIII not exactly [18:32]
mjrIII although let's pretend there is [18:32]
mjrIII after all [18:33]
mjrIII i can find one person, and craft my own forward contract between me and him [18:33]
mjrIII which does entail cp risk [18:33]
mjrIII but let's say i am more comfortable with the cp risk than i am with the fx risk [18:33]
mjrIII anyway, if i can for example, sell 10 btc at $68 at months end, and only have to put up 1 btc as collateral [18:34]
jurov sry, what is cp risk? [18:34]
mjrIII counter party [18:34]
jurov ah [18:34]
mjrIII so, i am effectively guaranteed to receive $68 per bitcoin at months end, up to 10 bitcoins [18:34]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.04082 BTC [-] [18:35]
mjrIII which means that my profit occurs if the price falls, i can sell at the higher price of my contract [18:35]
mjrIII BUT if the price rises, i still have $680 dollars [18:35]
mjrIII no matter what [18:35]
mjrIII fewer bitcoins, but same dollar amount [18:35]
mjrIII so that would be the future side [18:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20800 @ 0.00080532 = 16.7507 BTC [-] [18:36]
mjrIII since with the future, i profit when price falls, i should be able to take risk in that direction [18:36]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.300001 BTC [-] [18:36]
mjrIII so i write a call [18:36]
mjrIII sorry, write a put [18:37]
mjrIII so now, due to the put, i lose money when price falls [18:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 10 @ 0.002545 = 0.0255 BTC [-] [18:37]
mjrIII but as the future profits on price falling, it should offset the loss from the put [18:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 2 @ 0.002535 = 0.0051 BTC [-] [18:37]
mjrIII if prices rise, i still collect premium, and futures gives me less btc, though same USD [18:38]
mjrIII remember that i only put up one bitcoin for the future contract, though that allows me to hedge 10 bitcoins prices [18:39]
mjrIII so i should be able to sell some number of puts (can't figure out how many without actually trying) [18:39]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 26 @ 0.019547 = 0.5082 BTC [-] [18:40]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 15 @ 0.019548 = 0.2932 BTC [+] [18:40]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 219 @ 0.019549 = 4.2812 BTC [+] [18:40]
mjrIII but the combined premium of that number of puts should more than offset any losses from the future contract if i can charge .15 btc per put [18:41]
mjrIII that is what i mean by arbitraging the difference between the future and the option [18:41]
mjrIII of course there are risks [18:41]
mjrIII and its very complicated, depends on if you measure p&l in btc or USD (that is not as simple a decision as one might think) [18:42]
* topace_ (~topace@CPEc0c1c03be745-CM00407b85cf6f.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.04198 BTC [+] [18:43]
mjrIII so, i really don't know, all i know is that the implied vol of those prices is 6 times higher than the greatest vol i've observed in any given month [18:43]
mjrIII meaning there should be signifigant profits in the middle (which no one has tried to take) if you can handle your risk [18:44]
mjrIII this is simply math [18:44]
jurov now you've lost me [18:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.002525 BTC [-] [18:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.0025 BTC [-] [18:46]
jurov on "implied vol of those prices" [18:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 15 @ 0.002405 = 0.0361 BTC [-] [18:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 146 @ 0.002404 = 0.351 BTC [-] [18:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 200 @ 0.002403 = 0.4806 BTC [-] [18:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 400 @ 0.0024 = 0.96 BTC [-] [18:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 300 @ 0.00239 = 0.717 BTC [-] [18:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 338 @ 0.002377 = 0.8034 BTC [-] [18:46]
mjrIII one of the largest factors in an options price is the volatility [18:46]
mjrIII which is just a measure of how much it moves [18:46]
mjrIII if you reverse engineer the prices being offered, for the underlying price and the strike price [18:47]
assbot [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 38 @ 0.187 = 7.106 BTC [+] [18:47]
mjrIII you arrive at implied volatility, or what that person writing/pricing the option thinks the possible moves are [18:47]
mjrIII at the current prices, that number is 300 [18:48]
jurov oh yes, i somehow thought vol=volume and went derp [18:48]
mjrIII by looking at historical data i can calculate the daily, monthly, yearly, etc volatilty [18:48]
mjrIII and even in march and april and may, it never went above 50 [18:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00080532 = 2.416 BTC [-] [18:49]
mjrIII meaning if i opened an options contract on the beginning of the month, the change would never have been sharper than volatility of 50 (that was the highest number i could make the spreadsheet give me) [18:49]
mjrIII if you look at daily volatility, its around 11 i think [18:49]
mjrIII and to calculate that, i took the "returns" on btc on options expiration days for the last 12 months [18:50]
mjrIII then calculated their standard deviations from the average return [18:51]
mjrIII which was much lower than 50 [18:51]
jurov hmm, did you consider they are american style? [18:51]
mjrIII yes...and that does make it harder to price [18:51]
mjrIII typically you pay more of a premium for the increased optionality [18:52]
mjrIII but not like 10x the price of the european option [18:52]
mjrIII i haven't done the math perfectly [18:52]
mjrIII or completely [18:52]
mjrIII but if i do this as a thought experiment [18:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MG] 10000 @ 0.00017 = 1.7 BTC [+] [18:53]
mjrIII there must be a scenario where the premium is not 33% of the underlying [18:53]
mjrIII so, if the actual greatest volatility we have seen so far is 50, let's assume that is true [18:56]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.0406 = 0.1218 BTC [-] [18:56]
mjrIII underlying premise and all that [18:56]
jurov not sure if you're taking this from the right end [18:57]
* BTCOxygen (~BTCOxygen@unaffiliated/oxygen) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:57]
mjrIII perhaps [18:57]
mjrIII but given that vol is 50, and options are being priced at vol 300 [18:57]
mjrIII there should be an arbitrage opportunity, i think that is self-evident, no? [18:57]
mjrIII if the numbers are wrong, of course it wouldn't make sense [18:58]
mjrIII but if that IS the case...does my hypothesis make sense? [18:58]
jurov i'd rather try to consider btcusd as random walk and determine in which range it's going to stay with, 95% chance during the 1 or 2 months [18:58]
mjrIII that is a good idea [18:58]
jurov then use that price range as breakeven points for options [18:58]
mjrIII well, that is what i am trying to do, in a way [18:58]
kakobrekla such model will blow on extremes [18:59]
* daybyter (~andreas@88-134-90-46-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:59]
mjrIII i am basically trying to show returns for any given price between 40 and 130 [18:59]
jurov ^ yes, someone called that fat tail events [18:59]
kakobrekla yea [18:59]
mjrIII and yes, it will [18:59]
assbot [BTCTC] [RSM] 30 @ 0.016005 = 0.4802 BTC [+] [18:59]
mjrIII depending on what you think of as extreme [18:59]
kakobrekla btc is extreme compared to anything [18:59]
jurov 300% increase in a month is extreme [19:00]
* Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-91-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:00]
mjrIII yes true [19:01]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 2 @ 0.019549 = 0.0391 BTC [+] [19:02]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 30 @ 0.019549 = 0.5865 BTC [+] [19:02]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 90 @ 0.019549 = 1.7594 BTC [+] [19:02]
ThickAsThieves ;;estimate [19:02]
gribble Next difficulty estimate | 25275743.691 based on data since last change | 24539552.1447 based on data for last three days [19:02]
mjrIII yes, and for the month where the price tripled, that is where i calculated volatility of 50 [19:04]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 6 @ 0.004466 = 0.0268 BTC [-] [19:04]
mjrIII which was the highest vol for any month [19:05]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 22 @ 0.048994 = 1.0779 BTC [-] [19:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1 @ 0.00099 BTC [+] [19:07]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 0.34 = 0.68 BTC [-] [19:07]
mjrIII i think [19:07]
mjrIII and i arrive at vol by doing the following [19:07]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.040551 = 0.2839 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.04055 = 0.1217 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 105 @ 0.04052 = 4.2546 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 40 @ 0.0405 = 1.62 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.040202 = 0.804 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 67 @ 0.040162 = 2.6909 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 15 @ 0.04016 = 0.6024 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 44 @ 0.04015 = 1.7666 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.04012 = 0.1605 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.04005 = 0.4005 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.04004 = 0.1201 BTC [-] [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 59 @ 0.04002 = 2.3612 BTC [-] [19:09]
mjrIII square root of the avg(difference from avg return for n periods)^2 [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004466 BTC [-] [19:09]
mjrIII not sure if i wrote that correctly [19:09]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 2 @ 0.004466 = 0.0089 BTC [-] [19:10]
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mjrIII i'm gonna redo the numbers for every day in the last year [19:13]
mjrIII see what i arrive at, brb [19:13]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 132 @ 0.048994 = 6.4672 BTC [-] [19:20]
mjrIII YTD i think daily historical vol is 120 [19:23]
mjrIII which is much higher, but still not even half of 300 [19:23]
mjrIII jurov: i think that is your random walk [19:24]
mjrIII which should correspond to an option price of .11 [19:25]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.04085 BTC [-] [19:25]
mjrIII again, these are just using standardized finance tools, which i am not sure how well they apply [19:26]
mjrIII but intuitively, while the bots options are fully backed, they are not hedged [19:28]
mjrIII so if you wrote options while hedging you should be able to offer more efficient pricing i would imagine [19:28]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.MINING] 1 @ 0.019548 BTC [-] [19:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.04092 = 0.1228 BTC [+] [19:31]
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assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 2 @ 0.004466 = 0.0089 BTC [-] [19:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11694 @ 0.00080625 = 9.4283 BTC [+] [19:33]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 1 @ 0.0018 BTC [+] [19:33]
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jurov mjrIII, with how much confidence you computed that? [19:36]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1 @ 0.00099 BTC [+] [19:36]
jurov or it implies that using volatility 120, the model should stay break-even over a long time? [19:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 25 @ 0.004466 = 0.1117 BTC [-] [19:37]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 25 @ 0.041789 = 1.0447 BTC [+] [19:40]
jurov btw, to get the leverage for your futures, you need to pay interest... and that can eat considerable part of your profit [19:40]
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jurov i did some rough estimates while trying to prop up MPBPT, and this haas been a problem, too [19:43]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 4.12 = 20.6 BTC [-] [19:43]
jurov are you posting links or only comments? [19:45]
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jurov prolly someone turned you in as a known troll [19:48]
jurov :D [19:49]
mjrIII jurov: it depends, confident enough to try a test program [19:50]
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mjrIII and as far as i can see, no interest calculated on the futures [19:51]
mjrIII i'm looking at icbit.se [19:51]
mjrIII though the actual place i get a futures contract from is not relevant [19:51]
mjrIII as i am pretty sure i can do futures with some businesses [19:51]
mjrIII to help them [19:51]
mjrIII but regardless [19:52]
jurov well, if you can insure MPBPT with reasonable terms.. i'm all in [19:52]
mjrIII nice lol [19:52]
mjrIII that is what I eventually hope to have [19:52]
mjrIII insurance services [19:52]
mjrIII by the way, check out the current edition of the site [19:52]
assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 6 @ 0.0018 = 0.0108 BTC [+] [19:52]
mjrIII buttonwood_advanced.meteor.com [19:53]
mjrIII i am refactoring and debugging the old site and adding it into the new site slowly [19:53]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.002478 BTC [+] [19:53]
mjrIII and will launch this one at satoshisquare.com when it is ready [19:53]
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assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 4.115 = 12.345 BTC [-] [19:55]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 4.11 = 16.44 BTC [-] [19:56]
mjrIII but i basically have to put up .2 bitcoins as collateral to hedge one bitcoin [19:56]
mjrIII then i collect hopefully .15 bitcoins as premium... [19:57]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 4.1 = 12.3 BTC [-] [19:57]
mjrIII and let's for simplicity's sake say 1 bitcoin for mpex put [19:57]
mjrIII maybe i should reverse them so i can know with certainty the collateral on the mpex side [19:58]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 1 @ 0.004466 BTC [-] [19:58]
mjrIII sell calls/buy futures [19:58]
CheckDavid What are these quotes? [20:01]
mjrIII CheckDavid: from assbot? [20:01]
CheckDavid Yes [20:01]
mjrIII the last one is a "print" from BTCTC for an asset called virtualmine [20:02]
CheckDavid What defines that asset? [20:02]
mjrIII 1 unit was transacted for .004 bitcoin [20:02]
mjrIII the terms of its creator i suppose [20:02]
CheckDavid Was it transacted on a specific exchange? [20:02]
CheckDavid this is a bit confusing to me yet [20:02]
mjrIII yes [20:02]
mjrIII it was a print from btctc [20:02]
mjrIII if i told you it was a print from nasdaq [20:03]
jurov CheckDavid: BTCT is http://btct.co [20:03]
mjrIII you would get it? [20:03]
mjrIII the different exchanges publish market data [20:03]
mjrIII or should i say broadcast might be more accurate [20:03]
CheckDavid Maybe I would [20:04]
mjrIII i was just curious [20:04]
mjrIII what level of understanding of traditional finance you had [20:04]
mjrIII so i could draw analogies for you [20:04]
CheckDavid is BTCT like the NYSE? [20:04]
CheckDavid or Nasdaq? [20:04]
CheckDavid OH I see now [20:04]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 63 @ 0.004466 = 0.2814 BTC [-] [20:04]
mjrIII are you asking for a comparison of which one it is more similar to? [20:04]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 9 @ 0.004467 = 0.0402 BTC [+] [20:04]
mjrIII or are you asking if it is like either [20:05]
jurov go there and make your own opinion [20:05]
CheckDavid No, not a comparison of that sort [20:05]
mjrIII it is an exchange [20:05]
mjrIII like nyse and nasdaq are exchanges [20:05]
CheckDavid I see. [20:05]
jurov his is too broad question [20:05]
CheckDavid How does a "company" or "business" register there? [20:05]
mjrIII on mpex, you need to be vetted by mircea_popescu (good luck) [20:05]
CheckDavid Ok ok, you all dominate thsi shit when you were born [20:05]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 10 @ 0.004467 = 0.0447 BTC [+] [20:05]
CheckDavid good, I didn't =_= [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 11 @ 0.002379 = 0.0262 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 9 @ 0.002378 = 0.0214 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 17 @ 0.002377 = 0.0404 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 5 @ 0.002365 = 0.0118 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 52 @ 0.002358 = 0.1226 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 50 @ 0.002355 = 0.1178 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 25 @ 0.00235 = 0.0588 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 18 @ 0.00235 = 0.0423 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3 @ 0.00234 = 0.007 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.00232 = 0.232 BTC [-] [20:06]
mjrIII so, CheckDavid, you see those prints? [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.0023 = 0.23 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 30 @ 0.0023 = 0.069 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.00225 = 0.225 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 50 @ 0.0022 = 0.11 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 2460 @ 0.00215 = 5.289 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 50 @ 0.00215 = 0.1075 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 50 @ 0.00211 = 0.1055 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 975 @ 0.0021 = 2.0475 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 25 @ 0.00201 = 0.0503 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 10 @ 0.002002 = 0.02 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 20 @ 0.002001 = 0.04 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 200 @ 0.002001 = 0.4002 BTC [-] [20:06]
CheckDavid mjrIII, these ones now? this flood? lol [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3000 @ 0.002 = 6 BTC [-] [20:06]
mjrIII that is an equity called s.dice-pt which is what they call a pass through [20:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 20 @ 0.192999 = 3.86 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 45 @ 0.193 = 8.685 BTC [+] [20:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 12 @ 0.1931 = 2.3172 BTC [+] [20:06]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.1936 = 0.5808 BTC [+] [20:06]
assbot [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1000 @ 0.002 = 2 BTC [-] [20:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.1937 BTC [+] [20:07]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.1939 = 0.5817 BTC [+] [20:07]
jurov CheckDavid, read this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125629.0 [20:07]
mjrIII ChaangNoi: depends on what you think the point of equity markets are [20:07]
mjrIII Chaang-Noi: i think of it as a place for businesses to sell equity in exchange for capital [20:07]
jurov CheckDavid: if some parts are confusing, you'll still be able to ask better questions [20:08]
mjrIII in which case, its fine, the businesses who sought capital got it [20:08]
mjrIII secondary markets are not really important [20:08]
mjrIII in the grand scheme of things [20:08]
Namworld Good bunch of S.DICE trades [20:08]
mjrIII that remains to be seen, i am confident in mpex [20:08]
jurov sour grapes, goat? [20:09]
mjrIII maybe [20:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00080625 = 5.6438 BTC [+] [20:09]
arij mpex ded [20:09]
mjrIII no [20:09]
Namworld just-dice? What's so great about just-dice? [20:09]
arij you can infest [20:09]
mjrIII let's go to blockchain.info and see how many just-dice transactions vs s.dice transactions happen [20:09]
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pankkake it's off-chain. [20:09]
mjrIII completely? [20:10]
mjrIII i thought just-dice gave you both options [20:10]
mjrIII and i think erik is pretty well trusted [20:10]
pankkake no, but I doubt you can see the in/outs, and it would not provide any useful info [20:10]
mjrIII well... [20:10]
mjrIII i do see the transactions for s.dice [20:10]
Namworld Blah... coinroll all the way... same thing but came earlier. [20:11]
mjrIII as if there weren't s.dice clones in the past [20:11]
pankkake the advantage of satoshi dice, as a gambler, is that the btc go back (or not) to your account quickly. you don't have to put much trust in the operator [20:11]
pankkake as an investor, it's all the same really [20:11]
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pankkake and it's much more convenient on just-dice [20:12]
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mjrIII pankkake: well, as an investory, whichever is more appealing to the consumer is the one i'd rather invest in [20:12]
mjrIII Chaang-Noi: in what way? [20:12]
pankkake just-dice has no fees at each gamble, has immediate results, it's better in almost every way [20:12]
mjrIII are you referring to when he released 3% more of the company [20:13]
Namworld pankkake, so does Coinroll, PrimeDice and plenty others which were there before just-dice or these... [20:13]
mjrIII Chaang-Noi: omg, you really don't understand s.dice huh [20:13]
mjrIII its a bitcoin blockchain transaction, how exactly does one block anyone? [20:13]
jurov mjrIII, but erik really did that, or tried to [20:14]
mjrIII oh, the website that is irrelevant to the actual game [20:14]
mjrIII oh no [20:14]
mjrIII i can't look at the list of addresses on that website [20:14]
mjrIII i have [20:14]
jurov it really seems like it's a liability for evoor [20:14]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 4.1 = 36.9 BTC [-] [20:14]
mjrIII i disagree [20:14]
mjrIII does blockchain still offer that list? [20:14]
Namworld blockchain still direct link SD for its user [20:15]
jurov mjrIII it's not about game itself, that's bulletproof. it's about the owner [20:15]
Namworld Major source of gambling for SD [20:15]
Namworld and apparently does it "for free" [20:15]
Namworld But of course, won't put other website there other than the SD option. [20:16]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.08 = 8.16 BTC [-] [20:16]
mjrIII there you go [20:17]
mjrIII i would argue that more people learn about s.dice because they use blockchain than because they stumbled upon the site [20:17]
mjrIII and that isn't blocked [20:17]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 4.06133 = 12.184 BTC [-] [20:17]
mjrIII so, the whole OMG they blocked the website from US Users was silly from the perspective of someone who understands how s.dice works [20:17]
jurov mjrIII how many users do understand? [20:18]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.0613 BTC [-] [20:18]
mjrIII or just send it straight from blockchain [20:18]
mjrIII my point is that almost everyone uses blockchain [20:19]
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assbot [BTCTC] [AMC-PT] 1 @ 0.0018 BTC [+] [20:19]
mjrIII so you are more likely to be exposed to s.dice via blockchain than by going to their site [20:19]
mjrIII and no, i hold no equities at the moment [20:19]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.04198 = 0.3778 BTC [+] [20:19]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.04198699 = 0.4199 BTC [+] [20:19]
mjrIII but s.dice's .28 P/E ratio is quite tempting [20:19]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.042 = 0.126 BTC [+] [20:19]
Namworld I hold equity in more than one dice websites. [20:19]
jurov okay, and would that stay forever? is there any known agreement between blockchain and sdice? [20:20]
Namworld Most are here to stay. [20:20]
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jurov mjrIII and what do you say to the fact that evoorhees intrduces himself as Coinapult CEO, not mentioning SatoshiDice much? [20:21]
jurov even if coinapult is much smaller operation [20:22]
arij so [20:22]
mjrIII 648.55972400843 that is june's div for s.dice [20:22]
arij is there something wrong with that/ [20:22]
mjrIII that is a positive number i believe [20:22]
mjrIII and that is 13% of their total profit [20:22]
mjrIII so... [20:22]
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mjrIII ;;calc (648.55972400843 * 100)/13 [20:24]
gribble 4988.92095391 [20:24]
jurov mjrIII of course it's good.. but company isn't numbers. company is people [20:24]
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Namworld Just look at the per share dividend. Does it match 100% profit divided by 100 million shares? Always [20:24]
mjrIII did justdice make 5k bitcoins last month [20:24]
Namworld No [20:24]
furuknap ;;ticker [20:24]
gribble MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 71.22500, Best ask: 71.24000, Bid-ask spread: 0.01500, Last trade: 71.22501, 24 hour volume: 31145.86411387, 24 hour low: 66.60001, 24 hour high: 71.61334, 24 hour vwap: 69.02590 [20:24]
Namworld It made 755.67132996 so far, apparently [20:25]
furuknap ;;bcstats [20:25]
furuknap ;;nethash [20:25]
gribble Current Blocks: 245330 | Current Difficulty: 2.1335329113983E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 245951 | Next Difficulty In: 621 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 6 hours, 26 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 25440669.41 | Estimated Percent Change: 19.24198 [20:25]
gribble 175663.636948 [20:25]
mjrIII Namworld: do they not match? net profit/total shares doesn't add up? [20:26]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 100 @ 0.030989 = 3.0989 BTC [+] [20:26]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 40 @ 0.03099 = 1.2396 BTC [+] [20:26]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 49 @ 0.031 = 1.519 BTC [+] [20:26]
mjrIII anyway, for a company that is doing so bad, to have 8X the revenue of your paradigm of the "best" site says that the market doesn't think just-dice is the best [20:27]
mjrIII and that s.dice is still doing just fine [20:27]
mjrIII jurov: and what did you mean about the people, i trust erik more than almost everyone in btc [20:27]
mjrIII i would say the relative "risk-free" people in btc are you, mp, erik, kako [20:28]
mjrIII maybe namworld and smickles too [20:28]
mjrIII maybe a few oters [20:28]
jurov ;;seen smickles [20:28]
gribble smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 13 weeks, 3 days, 1 hour, 46 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: a bitcoin atm could be the easiest way to send money to a friend, each of you just goes to an atm [20:28]
mjrIII others [20:28]
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mjrIII lol that was a conversation i was having with him lol [20:29]
mjrIII Chaang-Noi: anyway, profit of 5k bitcoins last month pretty much says everything i need to say about s.dice as a company [20:29]
mjrIII with no US website, they did 800% of what just-dice did [20:30]
mjrIII and I think just-dice is great [20:30]
jurov as i said, erik is trustworthy but he seems to consider sdice a liability [20:30]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 13 @ 0.31002215 = 4.0303 BTC [-] [20:30]
mjrIII jurov: he def does i think [20:30]
mjrIII and is exploring how to protect the company and himself, as he should [20:30]
mjrIII but at the end of the day, there are few companies in btc space who can claim to have made 5k bitcoins, much less 5k in one month [20:31]
mjrIII probably count them on both hands i am guessing (ones that are still around at least) [20:31]
jurov pirate did [20:31]
mjrIII yes [20:31]
jurov =D [20:31]
mjrIII of course [20:31]
mjrIII i'm sure glbse must have to [20:32]
mjrIII and mt gox makes more than that i'd bet [20:32]
mjrIII mpex i'm sure also has done that [20:32]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.041599 = 0.0832 BTC [-] [20:32]
mjrIII but, think about this just from a fundamentals perspective [20:32]
mjrIII they had expenses of 167 bitcoin last month [20:32]
mjrIII to make 5k bitcoin [20:32]
mjrIII that is the most ridiculous number i've ever seen in my life for a profit margin [20:33]
jurov yes,. let's try fundamentals. did you read mircea's recent accounting stuff implying that since assets are iuner full control of owner/management anyway, they need not to be reported? [20:33]
jurov *under full control [20:33]
mjrIII what do you mean? [20:34]
mjrIII is this referring to the private placement? [20:34]
jurov lemme dig it up [20:34]
mjrIII um...tiberslav is very bearish... [20:34]
mjrIII and yes, i know about luck [20:34]
jurov this and following comments: http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/accounting-for-the-nonzero-asset-corporation-the-mpex-standard/#comment-93803 [20:35]
mjrIII but it isn't luck when it happens, oh and by the way, that 5k was AFTER taking the loss from last month [20:35]
jurov and s.dice is considered "zero assets company" afaik [20:35]
ThickAsThieves tubby hates sdice [20:35]
ThickAsThieves tibby* [20:35]
jurov for me that implies that personal integrity of the owner is more important than in meatspace where everything is reported [20:35]
mjrIII so they got lucky and made 5k instead of their expected 3k [20:35]
jurov and evoorhees has his problems with it [20:36]
ThickAsThieves goat, mjr is the buttonwood satoshi square guy• [20:36]
ThickAsThieves tiberius is a useless know it all [20:37]
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ThickAsThieves mjr is cool is all im saying [20:37]
mjrIII jurov: yes, there is little recourse in case of fraud [20:37]
mjrIII ThickAsThieves: lol [20:37]
mjrIII thanks [20:37]
ThickAsThieves he does shit n shit [20:37]
mjrIII jurov: but my point is that erik is trusted, so mgmt counts for a lot [20:38]
ThickAsThieves yes [20:38]
mjrIII so when you aggregate trusted mgmt, ridiculous profit margins, low share price, and great market share [20:38]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 10 @ 0.004597 = 0.046 BTC [+] [20:38]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 9 @ 0.0047 = 0.0423 BTC [+] [20:38]
mjrIII you have a strong buy IMO [20:38]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 299 @ 0.0047 = 1.4053 BTC [+] [20:38]
mjrIII i'm not advising people to buy [20:38]
mjrIII but i honestly don't understand why it is valued so low [20:38]
jurov he doesn't stand up to the trust [20:39]
mjrIII jurov: what do you mean? [20:39]
assbot [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.324776 = 0.9743 BTC [+] [20:39]
mjrIII i chalk it up to retards like you... [20:39]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.SELLING] 1 @ 0.031 BTC [+] [20:39]
jurov mjrIII if he was interested to maintain his trust, he would announce shit in advance [20:40]
mjrIII not always the case, IMO [20:40]
mjrIII what did he do that he didn't announce? [20:40]
jurov that s.dice has no own betting pool [20:40]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 100 @ 0.0047 = 0.47 BTC [+] [20:41]
ThickAsThieves goat why are u even starting shit we all know sdice can both not live up to its potential and look like decent investment at the same time [20:41]
ThickAsThieves it's ok to try and be objective [20:41]
ThickAsThieves doesnt make someone a troll or idiot [20:41]
mjrIII Chaang-Noi: i am saying, that if you look at a stock, and see a P/E ratio of .28 or whatever, and then see that they have huge market share, as well as very low expenses to profit ratio, what would you think [20:42]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.17831404 = 0.3566 BTC [-] [20:42]
mjrIII i'm not talking about s.dice, i am saying any company [20:42]
mjrIII P/E is a measure over time [20:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.31002215 BTC [-] [20:43]
mjrIII how long will it take to get the returns to cover the cost i paid for the stock [20:43]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0444 BTC [+] [20:43]
jurov mjrIII: i am saying, that if you look at a stock where mgmt suddenly claims it's 6k in debt and it will be paid from next dividend, what would you think [20:43]
mjrIII difference between in debt, and taking a loss for the month [20:44]
mjrIII only profits should be distributed, not losses? [20:44]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.041599 = 0.2912 BTC [-] [20:44]
assbot [BTCTC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] 7 @ 0.0047 = 0.0329 BTC [+] [20:44]
assbot [BTCTC] [DMS.PURCHASE] 64 @ 0.048994 = 3.1356 BTC [-] [20:44]
jurov mjrIII no it was not caused by normal dice losses [20:45]
Namworld Considering expectation of ~4000 satoshi per month on average, at 0.002 BTC per S.DICE, 50 months. [20:45]
Namworld Gambling amounts will probably go back up with BTC price drop however. [20:45]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.1 BTC [+] [20:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 4.0613 BTC [-] [20:46]
assbot [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 4.06 = 8.12 BTC [-] [20:46]
jurov mjrIII this, pls read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101902.msg2452138#msg2452138 [20:46]
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mjrIII whatever [20:48]
mjrIII still don't see the issue [20:48]
mjrIII he provided interest free loan [20:48]
mjrIII and now doesn't want to [20:48]
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jurov rly? i give up then [20:49]
mjrIII he could have just listed "operations capital" as an expense of 4k and then showed profit of 1k if he wanted [20:49]
mjrIII whatever [20:49]
mjrIII historically, it seems to me that S.DICE has paid out quite a bit in dividends [20:50]
mjrIII they still have great market share [20:50]
mjrIII and low expenses [20:50]
mjrIII that is my only point [20:50]
jurov ic, it's too big to fail [20:50]
mjrIII do you disagree with any of those points [20:50]
ThickAsThieves ... [20:50]
mjrIII i am not looking for investment advice [20:51]
mjrIII and don't really like playing with equitities in a market filled with retards [20:51]
mjrIII no, i am asking you a simple question [20:51]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 6 @ 0.31002215 = 1.8601 BTC [-] [20:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00080532 = 10.8316 BTC [-] [20:51]
mjrIII has s.dice a) paid out a decent sized amount of dividends over their lifetime b) maintain a large market share c) have low expenses for the amount of profit they generate [20:52]
jurov mjrIII, i already told you i agree. and no need to argue with goat [20:52]
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mjrIII Chaang-Noi: and i wasn't directing that at you per se [20:52]
mjrIII i'm saying that most people in this space have no idea what they are doing [20:52]
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jurov yes, including evoor, sadly. [20:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2350 @ 0.00080039 = 1.8809 BTC [-] [20:52]
* Chilca (~Chilca@c-67-164-91-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:53]
mjrIII so, i personally don't like assets [20:53]
mjrIII equities [20:53]
mjrIII i am looking for more arbitrage stuff [20:53]
mjrIII i'll defend whatever i please [20:53]
mjrIII but i never said i didn't like it, i guess my sentiment is that i wish more mature investors saw this equity [20:54]
mjrIII and valued it appropriately [20:54]
mjrIII well...that is an interesting question [20:54]
jurov now tell me what does mature investor say about such liabilities disclosed in last minute? [20:54]
mjrIII monday as always [20:54]
mjrIII that is the thing [20:55]
jurov with such poor wording [20:55]
mjrIII jurov: i totally agree [20:55]
mjrIII same issue as when he dumped 3% more on the market [20:55]
mjrIII and people got all pissed [20:55]
mjrIII im not saying its ran perfectlhy [20:55]
mjrIII or even great [20:55]
mjrIII just saying that the numbers speak for themselves...if you bought their IPO would you be happy or sad right now? [20:56]
mjrIII yes, enough talk of s.dice [20:56]
mjrIII as i was saying [20:56]
mjrIII EVR has been wanting me to move the exchange to EVR [20:57]
mjrIII and it makes a lot of sense [20:57]
mjrIII WiFi, electricity, food and drink and private space, and shelter from inclement weather [20:57]
mjrIII it is the lounge which accepts bitcoin [20:57]
mjrIII charlie shrem is part owner [20:57]
mjrIII Chaang-Noi: not everyone lives by CME/CBOE [20:58]
mjrIII so, i think we will be moving there [20:58]
mjrIII and then launching another day for the park [20:58]
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mjrIII lol, it is where most options come from [20:58]
mjrIII and almost all commodities (US at least) [20:58]
mjrIII chicago mercantile exchange [20:59]
mjrIII i work in finance, but not a trader [21:00]
mjrIII and i def don't live in chicago [21:00]
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