Forum logs for 07 Aug 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

BingoBoingo	USia is fucked... Ted Cruz: "Let me contrast President Obama, who at the prayer breakfast essentially acted as an apologist. He said well gosh the crusades, the inquisitions ... We need a president that shows the courage that Egypt’s President al-Sissi did—a Muslim—when he called out the radical Islamic terrorists who are threatening the world."	[00:01]
BingoBoingo	Now USia isn't fucked because a candidate for executive and sitting senator said that. It is fucked because of all US lab states abroad Egypt seems the most appropriate to appeal to the crowds?	[00:03]
BingoBoingo	Trump just might end up the Grand Ole Party's nominee.	[00:06]
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decimation	I'm pretty sure he's working for clitler	[00:06]
BingoBoingo	decimation: He is now, but if he gets the nomination...	[00:07]
BingoBoingo	Clitler might surrender to combover	[00:07]
decimation	lol	[00:07]
BingoBoingo	Now I might be drunk, but it seems like the "news" business wants a Carly v. Trump GOP primary	[00:08]
*	BingoBoingo pretty sure on the off chance he got the nomination Graham would come out of the closet to steal Clitler votes	[00:10]
decimation	they want whoever will be the best circus clown for the democrats to hate upon	[00:10]
BingoBoingo	decimation: Maybe? Generally they hope a democrat wins, but this is where they news channels make their money for the next four years.	[00:11]
BingoBoingo	They want drama(period)	[00:11]
n6	Getting End kernal panic not a syncing vfs unable to mount root fs on known-blog check	[00:13]
n6	asciilifeform: sorry to keep bugging you but any ideas?	[00:13]
*	asciilifeform is reading Лизюков А.И. Что надо знать воину Красной Армии о боевых приемах немцев. -М.: Воениздат НКО СССР, 1942 -- and soon to bed	[00:14]
BingoBoingo	Clitler v. Combover would be a battle of $140mil+graft vs. $980mil+differentgraft	[00:14]
BingoBoingo	n6: Practice on different *nic first. Install OpenBSD upgrade to stable. May have to patch bitcoind, but learn building from source in very documented way.	[00:15]
decimation	I don't get the lefty case for clitler	[00:15]
BingoBoingo	There isn't one.	[00:16]
BingoBoingo	A true SJW would want Bernie Sanders to go "Jenner"	[00:17]
decimation	yeah, that I get	[00:17]
decimation	but clitler would immediately sell out to the highest bidder, doesn't even really pretend otherwise	[00:17]
*	BingoBoingo expects "Jenner" to get verb'd soon	[00:17]
BingoBoingo	decimation: But that marketing.	[00:17]
*	assbot removes voice from n6	[00:17]
BingoBoingo	!up n6	[00:18]
*	assbot gives voice to n6	[00:18]
BingoBoingo	"kinder" Gawker Media on the day of first GOP debate https://archive.is/Qho1W	[00:19]
assbot	Someone Actually Played Through All of Fallout 3 As A Baby ... ( http://bit.ly/1NdEDCf )	[00:19]
n6	seems LILO is not stopping me from botting from USB	[00:20]
n6	Has to be gentoo sadly	[00:20]
*	BingoBoingo did not know would have been news. Already did that. If knew was news would have blogged it for the traffic.	[00:21]
BingoBoingo	Guess Gawker Media's special guest for their debate live blawg (hint: it was Obummer's lapdog Glenn Greenwald, citizen$maxint)	[00:23]
decimation	greenwald is a 'frenemy' of the democrats	[00:24]
decimation	I'm sure he enrages the bureaucrats that nominally work for obama	[00:25]
decimation	but he can't be disrespected without costing popular vote	[00:25]
BingoBoingo	I'm just amazed Omidyar cultured such true believers that his core would leave him to volunteer for Nick Denton	[00:25]
BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2015/01/pierre-omidyar-also-started-a-qntra-back-in-october-his-failed/	[00:26]
assbot	Pierre Omidyar also started a Qntra back in October. His failed. \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1KUts4e )	[00:26]
*	BingoBoingo amazed Caity Weaver had the integrity to leave Gawker and Gawker lacked the fortitude to drop Sam Biddle	[00:27]
BingoBoingo	"am Biddle	[00:28]
BingoBoingo	9:54 PM	[00:28]
BingoBoingo	Glenn if I see you tweeting any more good jokes instead of putting them here you will forfeit the iTunes gift card you were promised for this liveblog appearance"	[00:28]
BingoBoingo	^ Incredilol	[00:29]
BingoBoingo	I actually though am not inclined to blame Trump for his current place in USian electoral politics. Sometimes my nonegenarian Grandpa wants the yard cut short Friday so it looks good over the weekend. Other weeks, he tries to talk me into tilling the yard because the $10 of wheat he might grow in a year would be one appointment's copay at the audiologist.	[00:32]
BingoBoingo	The democratic primary debates will surely be a bigger farce though, mostly because to my knowledge none have been scheduled	[00:34]
BingoBoingo	Butt between Pareene and Greenwald abandoning Omidyar's pet for Gawker we must be able to imply where CIA favors.	[00:36]
BingoBoingo	DNS is fucked. Apparently the following link works for some mongoloids http://gawker.com\|gawker.com/	[00:38]
*	assbot removes voice from n6	[00:49]
BingoBoingo	!up n6	[00:49]
*	assbot gives voice to n6	[00:49]
n6	Hoping 3rd time is the charm	[00:50]
n6	might try openBSD after this..	[00:50]
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BingoBoingo	n6: If open BSD best learning opportunity is installing "release" and then building "stable"	[00:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43950 @#64; 0.00058434 = 25.6817 BTC [+] {5}	[00:53]
*	NewLiberty_ is now known as NewLiberty	[00:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44700 @#64; 0.00058517 = 26.1571 BTC [+]	[00:55]
asciilifeform	http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/12/120_56715.html << vintage lulz	[00:56]
assbot	Japan Tested Atomic Bomb in NK Before End of WWII? ... ( http://bit.ly/1K6m7bQ )	[00:56]
decimation	I thought it actually was the case that japan was close to the bomb	[01:01]
decimation	http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-japan-bomb-20150805-story.html < almost completed enrichment centrifuge	[01:02]
assbot	New evidence of Japan's effort to build atom bomb at the end of WWII - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1MUAFRg )	[01:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49000 @#64; 0.00058517 = 28.6733 BTC [+]	[01:02]
decimation	so that would be a ways away, but still on track	[01:02]
decimation	"On May 19, 1945, a Nazi submarine was captured and discovered to be delivering 1,200 pounds of uranium oxide to the Japanese military. "	[01:04]
BingoBoingo	Japan was probably closer than Germany	[01:04]
decimation	yes, that's my understanding too	[01:05]
decimation	they had a separate army research program	[01:05]
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BingoBoingo	!up phf_mobile	[01:14]
*	assbot gives voice to phf_mobile	[01:14]
phf_mobile	thanks	[01:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61141 @#64; 0.00057319 = 35.0454 BTC [-]	[01:15]
BingoBoingo	Remember, in the future camels made detroit broke	[01:16]
phf_mobile	n6: ben_vulpes: still having an issue getting "bitcoin/src/serialize.h:963:10: error: class member cannot be redeclared" even with your callgraph.sh, what am I missing? << you have to comment out either one of the versions of void insert function, it's either one at 963 or 951. they are identical, but i'm sure they are there for some legacy type signature reasons	[01:17]
n6	Thanks I will look at that after my 3rd gentoo install attempt	[01:18]
*	assbot removes voice from n6	[01:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10556 @#64; 0.00057319 = 6.0506 BTC [-]	[01:23]
phf_mobile	i have a mac os x patch, but as i recall that's the only change required, and since i don't understand the implications, i didn't post it. it works when building with clang, but needs investigation why duplicate function to begin with	[01:23]
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BingoBoingo	"Me Kind Arab" - Why did I not watch Mad Max earlier	[01:30]
BingoBoingo	"Thunderdome"	[01:33]
BingoBoingo	"We want Thunderdome"	[01:35]
BingoBoingo	"dying time's here"	[01:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @#64; 0.00058243 = 2.3297 BTC [+]	[01:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55964 @#64; 0.00057319 = 32.078 BTC [-] {3}	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	lol django girls meetup.	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	i suppose the equivalent would be going to pre-childbearing classes and asking them how many are goddesses.	[02:02]
trinque	haha	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	n6: mang don't use lilo << you know he just got advised to run lilo few hours back right here in our very own b-a.	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	we fucking need that holy distro already, stop frustrating innocent people's legitimate attempts.	[02:03]
mats	http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/ships/2015/08/04/australia-build-new-naval-fleet-65b-package/31107267/	[02:03]
assbot	Australia To Build New Naval Fleet in $65B Package ... ( http://bit.ly/1IMf7A6 )	[02:03]
trinque	thought poor mod6 was trying to standardize a process	[02:03]
BingoBoingo	we fucking need that holy distro already, stop frustrating innocent people's legitimate attempts. << Suckless hasn't finished sta.li yet	[02:04]
trinque	he had asked for the gentoo guide.	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	so he had.	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	so far his experience sounds a lot like mine.	[02:04]
trinque	yeah, it's certainly not great	[02:05]
mircea_popescu	!up n6	[02:05]
-assbot-	You voiced n6 for 30 minutes.	[02:05]
*	assbot gives voice to n6	[02:05]
n6	I'm still running into the same error here "grub2-install: error: /usr/lib/grub/x86_64-efi/modinfo.sh doesn't exist. Please specify --target or --directory."	[02:05]
BingoBoingo	So far it seems learnign curve for building whole OS is XBSD, Buildroot, Gentoo	[02:06]
BingoBoingo	Also what is up with Mel Gibson and half nekkid children	[02:06]
mircea_popescu	n6 well do you have that .sh anywhere ?	[02:06]
n6	the callgraph one?	[02:07]
n6	oh Im not even sure what your asking here.	[02:07]
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trinque	n6: my bad if I was demotivating you; I thought sticking to the guide strictly was the best way through	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	modinfo.sh	[02:08]
n6	mircea_popescu: How can I find out?	[02:08]
*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	does it exist and so you got a path problem, or does it not exist so you got a failed to build problem	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	well i dunno, but in worst case find / -iname modinfo.sh ?	[02:09]
n6	trinque: this guide went much better then yesterday with aws	[02:09]
mircea_popescu	"did it work ?" "oh, no, but it failed more pleasantly"	[02:09]
trinque	it is a trail of tears	[02:09]
*	BingoBoingo imagines if president trump is that Trilema.com will complain more about the president being a nigger	[02:10]
n6	I found it.. thanks for the help.	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	ok, so did you find it in /usr/lib/grub/x86_64-efi/ ?	[02:11]
n6	no but I couldn't get efi to build.	[02:11]
n6	only works with PC	[02:11]
n6	pc*	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	that's your problem thenm	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	no efi built no sh	[02:11]
n6	How do I build efi?	[02:12]
mircea_popescu	hey, you wouldn't be trying to build a 64 bit thing on a 32 bit machine would you ?	[02:12]
n6	only the first 3 times.	[02:12]
n6	What do I need to change to get it work?	[02:13]
trinque	n6: that var referencing grub	[02:13]
trinque	lemme see	[02:13]
trinque	well did you go with lilo? because that would then be elilo	[02:14]
n6	no i'm going to stick with the guide and do grub	[02:14]
trinque	mircea_popescu: this is where it's sorta hard to mask the essential complexity if the thing without making decisions for people	[02:14]
trinque	either I tell the guy set compatibility mode in the bios or I say get another boot loader	[02:14]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo srsly, an itunes gift card ?	[02:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24976 @#64; 0.00056825 = 14.1926 BTC [-] {2}	[02:14]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[02:14]
mircea_popescu	i should start a liveblabla gift free blowjobs.	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	gotta be better than ishit.	[02:15]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: "laundering" for sure. I mean private digital currency.	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	lol	[02:16]
trinque	n6: if going down the efi route, you will have to take instruction from https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2#UEFI_with_GPT	[02:16]
assbot	GRUB2 - Gentoo Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1JPZRas )	[02:16]
n6	what bootload will get this working right now and not lead to a 4th install	[02:16]
trinque	n6: switching to "CSM" mode in the efi settings	[02:16]
n6	how?	[02:16]
trinque	there's some key when you first boot up to get into the settings, enter on mine	[02:17]
mircea_popescu	mats the south china sea is a headache innit now.	[02:17]
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n6	so my options are a 4th install with a bios setting or a 4th install?	[02:18]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: You mean SCC isn an init?	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	hm ?	[02:19]
mats	mircea_popescu: and USG is powerless to project power.	[02:19]
mircea_popescu	it's waning, that's for sure.	[02:20]
BingoBoingo	South China Sea. It's been reduced to an init system.	[02:20]
mats	carrier groups are formidable, sure, but DoD is well aware of their vulnerability	[02:20]
mircea_popescu	no idea why the aussies are trying to go after the proved-to-fail system (ships) instead of outright copying the chiense (missile batteries) but hey.	[02:20]
mircea_popescu	"jubs in teh sector" or some bs	[02:20]
mats	a few well placed ATGMs, and everyone goes home	[02:20]
mircea_popescu	moreover : china has proved its ability to build 1k powerplants/year	[02:21]
BingoBoingo	South China Seas is roughly equivalent right now to linking war.o	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	it can churn out 100k of the damned things. there's no defending against missiles if "missiles" means, six digit moving items	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	aegis can't even track that many, because "nobody could have foreseen how useless this shit is"	[02:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82400 @#64; 0.00058427 = 48.1438 BTC [+] {6}	[02:26]
BingoBoingo	aegis can't even track that many, because "nobody could have foreseen how useless this shit is" << I honestly have no idea what the limit is becasue seekrits.	[02:29]
n6	trinque: I still cant get modinfo.sh in an efi folder after changing grub_platforms file and emerge grub again	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	practically speaking, even a dozen requires a veteran crew.	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	but in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/cbe3d27397c539e03f18d110f71c6347/tumblr_nldrmedQ7f1rwaupfo1_r1_500.gif	[02:30]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1IMh7bn )	[02:30]
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trinque	n6: the guide you followed did not account at all for EFI	[02:32]
trinque	in the EFI case there's even another partition you must have	[02:33]
trinque	the CSM thing I suggested is a way of setting EFI computers into a compatibility mode that behaves like BIOS	[02:33]
n6	trinque: what will it take for me to not have to make a 4th install here. I read your links still don't understand, last time I went without this step it ended poorly.	[02:34]
trinque	you don't have to trash the whole thing; merely reboot, set CSM, boot the livecd, mount, and chroot again	[02:35]
trinque	but first you must figure out where you changed the system to support EFI and change it back	[02:35]
n6	so the grub_platform? or you mean another place?	[02:35]
*	assbot removes voice from n6	[02:36]
trinque	GRUB_PLATFORMS="pc"	[02:36]
trinque	sorry wrong one, one sec	[02:36]
trinque	nvm, I am right	[02:36]
trinque	this is in /etc/portage/make.conf	[02:37]
BingoBoingo	n6: Given a choice at all BIOS is prolly less horribru	[02:37]
trinque	these vars are confusing, because they are split, making them appear to be separate categories	[02:37]
trinque	most actually just enable some USE flags	[02:38]
trinque	maybe prefixed with something	[02:38]
BingoBoingo	!up n6	[02:38]
*	assbot gives voice to n6	[02:38]
n6	I changed it back to "pc" but mircea_popescu said that was, 32 bits I have 64?	[02:38]
n6	so I do this 32 bits then edit the bios?	[02:38]
trinque	those were separate concerns	[02:38]
trinque	no	[02:38]
trinque	guide is for 64bit	[02:38]
mircea_popescu	separate concerns.	[02:38]
trinque	if you have a 64bit computer, cool	[02:38]
trinque	change that var then:	[02:38]
trinque	emerge -avDN @#64;world	[02:38]
trinque	ask, verbose, deep, new-use	[02:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @#64; 0.00057911 = 20.7321 BTC [-]	[02:39]
trinque	man emerge for more detail	[02:39]
BingoBoingo	Neither enough nor sufficient concerns	[02:42]
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trinque	n6: so do you get what we did there?	[02:42]
trinque	changed a setting in portage then told emerge to re-evaluate the currenty set list of desired packages (world) according to them	[02:43]
trinque	*currently	[02:43]
n6	No, trying to work out where I go next, lost my place in the guide now	[02:43]
n6	I still only have /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/modinfo.sh	[02:44]
trinque	what's the matter with that? you're going to set CSM	[02:45]
trinque	you have no need for EFI; I wouldn't bother	[02:45]
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trinque	n6: try this:	[02:47]
trinque	grub2-install --target i386-pc	[02:47]
n6	ok	[02:47]
n6	tells me grub2-install: error: install device isn't specified.	[02:47]
trinque	what's your hard drive, sda?	[02:48]
*	assbot gives voice to ag3nt_zer0	[02:48]
n6	I don't know	[02:48]
trinque	n6: remember the partitioning step?	[02:48]
trinque	try ls /dev/sda	[02:49]
n6	No I bought it built	[02:49]
n6	bash: /dev/sda: Permission denied	[02:49]
n6	oh i am sda	[02:49]
trinque	ok. grub2-install /dev/sda	[02:49]
trinque	and if that doesn't work, try with the target flag in there too	[02:49]
trinque	which if it isn't what I put, it's "pc"	[02:50]
trinque	one of the major sources of pain in setting up linux this way is having different things which sound almost the same	[02:51]
trinque	how does grub refer to the system architecture? how does ....	[02:51]
n6	rub2-install: error: /usr/lib/grub/usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/modinfo.sh/modinfo.sh doesn't exist. Please specify --target or --directory. is what im getting.	[02:51]
n6	wait i might have --target in the wrong place	[02:52]
trinque	somehow you got it to double up the path bizarrely	[02:52]
n6	Um, I'm in way over my head and going on 17 hours of gentoo	[02:53]
n6	and I still yet to get anything work.	[02:53]
trinque	mircea_popescu: perhaps this calls for a video.	[02:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54000 @#64; 0.00058526 = 31.604 BTC [+] {3}	[02:54]
trinque	or one of those terminal recording utils	[02:55]
trinque	n6: sounds like you've been hamstrung between efi and CSM (fake bios)	[02:55]
n6	Do they come with backdoors also?	[02:55]
trinque	your grub may have all kinds of knobs twiddled depending on what you did to try efi	[02:55]
trinque	does what come with back doors?	[02:55]
n6	my fake bios	[02:56]
trinque	your everything has back doors	[02:56]
trinque	or who knows; I don't have evidence	[02:56]
trinque	but this decision wont help you in either case	[02:56]
trinque	because in both cases it'd be because of a flaw, and neither you nor I know of the particular flaws in your firmware	[02:57]
n6	I think only edited the grub_platform file to try efi	[02:57]
trinque	the other place you might've would've been /etc/defaults/grub	[02:58]
trinque	rather, default	[02:58]
trinque	but that appears to pertain to the generation of grub's config, not its installation	[02:58]
n6	ls: cannot access /etc/defaults/grub: No such file or directory	[02:58]
trinque	yeah, I was wrong about the plural	[02:59]
n6	I don't have anything in this folder	[02:59]
trinque	so put your whole contents of your terminal after running grub2-install on dpaste.com	[03:00]
n6	How?	[03:00]
n6	er	[03:00]
n6	http://dpaste.com/32BGXMC	[03:01]
assbot	dpaste: 32BGXMC ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa0DiP )	[03:01]
trinque	n6: did you run that emerge command?	[03:02]
trinque	it's still asking for efi things	[03:02]
n6	I think so let me try again what was it?	[03:02]
BingoBoingo	Err- Insufficient Blood for Blood God	[03:02]
trinque	lol	[03:03]
trinque	cat /dev/suffering > /dev/null	[03:03]
trinque	n6: emerge -avDN @#64;world	[03:03]
trinque	and take note of what changes it wants to make before saying yes	[03:04]
n6	Total: 0 packages, Size of downloads: 0 KiB	[03:04]
trinque	ok so on my end I'm on efi	[03:04]
trinque	if I add pc to grub platforms	[03:04]
BingoBoingo	cat /dev/suffering > /dev/null ;;err suffering can not be null	[03:05]
trinque	but it can happen in a cruel, uncaring void	[03:05]
trinque	such as gentoo	[03:05]
n6	trinque: i'm on pc	[03:05]
trinque	yes, yet grub2-install wants efi stuff	[03:05]
n6	who made this?	[03:06]
trinque	we are trying to discover why	[03:06]
trinque	a horrible economic process.	[03:06]
n6	what about funtoo?	[03:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63751 @#64; 0.0005855 = 37.3262 BTC [+] {3}	[03:06]
trinque	same difference, just gentoo plus some other guy's opinions, but not easier	[03:06]
trinque	he's the original guy iirc but the difference between the distros is not much	[03:07]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: cascadianhacker.com/367850.pcap	[03:07]
trinque	n6: http://dpaste.com/0TJDC97.txt	[03:08]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa1ccg )	[03:08]
*	assbot removes voice from n6	[03:08]
trinque	so that's what mine looks like when adding pc	[03:08]
trinque	!up n6	[03:08]
*	assbot gives voice to n6	[03:08]
trinque	so you are already on it	[03:08]
ben_vulpes	aha i showed up in the middle of a gentoo quest i see	[03:09]
trinque	so we at least now rule out that the wrong variant of the package is installed.	[03:09]
trinque	ben_vulpes: I've got my winch	[03:09]
trinque	n6: try this	[03:09]
trinque	grub2-install --target=pc /dev/sda	[03:10]
n6	grub2-install: error: /usr/lib/grub/pc/modinfo.sh doesn't exist. Please specify --target or	[03:10]
n6	wait	[03:10]
trinque	n6: dpaste ls /usr/lib/grub/*	[03:10]
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n6	http://dpaste.com/1ZEAZ7X	[03:11]
assbot	dpaste: 1ZEAZ7X ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa1kJ5 )	[03:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63623 @#64; 0.00058305 = 37.0954 BTC [-]	[03:11]
ben_vulpes	trinque: but do you have a v8 and the electrical system to drive the thing	[03:11]
trinque	just a bad starter on this one	[03:12]
trinque	dropped in installation maybe	[03:12]
ben_vulpes	ksh-sh-sh-sh-sh-shewm	[03:12]
ben_vulpes	ksh-sh-sh-sh-sh-shewm	[03:12]
trinque	n6: i386-pc	[03:12]
n6	trinque: yea?	[03:13]
trinque	I think last time you put the whole path?	[03:13]
trinque	try just that	[03:13]
n6	um, I'm lost again.	[03:13]
trinque	grub2-install --target i386-pc /dev/sda	[03:14]
n6	seems to have worked.	[03:14]
trinque	by god	[03:14]
trinque	n6: cool!	[03:14]
trinque	and well done	[03:14]
n6	I still have to flip the bios	[03:14]
trinque	yep	[03:14]
BingoBoingo	same difference, just gentoo plus some other guy's opinions, but not easier << funtoo is actually gentoo with only OG dev's opinions	[03:14]
ben_vulpes	does the character now have a spaceship?	[03:14]
n6	do I need grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg ?	[03:14]
trinque	n6: yup, finish up the guide	[03:15]
trinque	built the kernel?	[03:15]
ben_vulpes	oh yeah? go to the portland django girls << you've actually done this?!	[03:15]
trinque	shit no, I just know some derps	[03:15]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: You ever interview peeps for a customer service job before?	[03:15]
ben_vulpes	in the sense that everything the shop does is customer service...	[03:15]
ben_vulpes	reacharounds	[03:15]
ben_vulpes	half and halfs	[03:16]
trinque	BingoBoingo: yeah just didn't want to diverge him from the guide again	[03:16]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Sing me songs of of success	[03:16]
n6	trinque: doing that now brb.	[03:16]
trinque	mircea_popescu: mod6: this leads me to believe that the default for grub has changed	[03:16]
ben_vulpes	gentle mumblings while i slide the 14-incher in	[03:16]
BingoBoingo	Grub, Grub always changes	[03:16]
ben_vulpes	iono bb i ask questions i don't answer them	[03:16]
trinque	yup, so if the recommendation switches to lilo, someone will have to verify that it works with that CSM mode	[03:17]
trinque	as elilo development has apparently died	[03:17]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Assume your skull was rendered the consistency of rice pudding with a tack hammer, what would you immagine looking for in customer service folk?	[03:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24782 @#64; 0.0005857 = 14.5148 BTC [+]	[03:17]
ben_vulpes	...	[03:18]
BingoBoingo	yup, so if the recommendation switches to lilo, someone will have to verify that it works with that CSM mode << More likely switch to bootstrap	[03:18]
trinque	BingoBoingo: link?	[03:18]
trinque	but that's a good example of a decision a n00b doesn't need to know exists	[03:19]
BingoBoingo	make kernel.c, make install, make clean???	[03:19]
trinque	I missed what you're talking about is all	[03:19]
trinque	there's a bootloader called bootstrap?	[03:19]
BingoBoingo	trinque: Ah bootstrap is the whole linux alf recommends	[03:19]
ben_vulpes	BingoBoingo: i'm not a derpy bureaucrat, i eat derpy bureaucrats for lunch	[03:19]
trinque	BingoBoingo: oh right, and in fact I pondered that too	[03:20]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Any insight into what they like. I'm asking for the cause of bleeding some fiat off of Illinois.	[03:20]
ben_vulpes	go in, be humble, pretend to be magnificently stupid and rule-followy while still somewhat savvy	[03:20]
ben_vulpes	"yes massa", in another age	[03:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80000 @#64; 0.000587 = 46.96 BTC [+] {2}	[03:20]
BingoBoingo	trinque: But for a build your first *nix Upgrading OpenBSd to -stable seems best documented	[03:21]
trinque	BingoBoingo: buildroot you meant, right?	[03:21]
BingoBoingo	Is that what it's called	[03:21]
BingoBoingo	"yes massa", in another age << How many weeks do you think I can pull off black face for that affirmative action. I think I might be able to do the six months it takes for Da Union to kick in, but...	[03:22]
trinque	I think what happened here is that grub may have switched the default target	[03:22]
ben_vulpes	BingoBoingo: notrly my problem	[03:22]
trinque	if this is the case, the guide could specify known good versions of the components installed	[03:23]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Just seeking you insight as an upstanding 'Murican employer	[03:23]
trinque	this causes a problem in the opposite direction when versions disappear from gentoo	[03:23]
ben_vulpes	might try openBSD after this.. << openbsd, an os that doesn't take much fucking with where bitcoin might actually build with vs gentoo where its known to build but the os cannot be built by mortals.	[03:23]
ben_vulpes	what a conundrum.	[03:23]
ben_vulpes	BingoBoingo: upstanding?!	[03:24]
BingoBoingo	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ7mhLp0abU	[03:24]
assbot	homicide da union - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa29kS )	[03:24]
ben_vulpes	BingoBoingo: me?!	[03:24]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Aren't you?	[03:24]
ben_vulpes	by whose metrics?	[03:24]
trinque	I seent him standing up once	[03:24]
trinque	twice even	[03:24]
trinque	n6: how goes?	[03:24]
ben_vulpes	trinque: you've only ever seen me halfway keeled over under a boozeload	[03:24]
trinque	wahaha	[03:24]
n6	still waiting...	[03:24]
BingoBoingo	That's a good question	[03:24]
*	ben_vulpes off to sing at the wee gestational bairn	[03:25]
trinque	is this problem solved by someone just signing a disk image and being done with it?	[03:26]
trinque	mircea_popescu: ^	[03:26]
BingoBoingo	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJgu7nGzBRM	[03:26]
assbot	FLAGS DA UNION - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa2ggz )	[03:26]
trinque	boot livecd, use dd, reboot	[03:26]
BingoBoingo	trinque: No, because filesystems need drivers	[03:26]
trinque	BingoBoingo: sure, just ship a kernel with all modules built and an initrd	[03:27]
trinque	livecd does the same	[03:27]
trinque	as do the ubuntus and debians	[03:27]
trinque	I also already have tooling that shits out these disk images.	[03:28]
trinque	sounds like syslinux with dd on it and the thing could even be a script that says hi, which drive do you want me to obliterate?	[03:28]
trinque	you hit a number, dd runs and it reboots	[03:29]
trinque	easy	[03:29]
BingoBoingo	FUCK COYOTES	[03:32]
n6	I still need grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg ?	[03:32]
trinque	n6: yeah do everything the guide says	[03:32]
trinque	that one makes the grub config file	[03:32]
BingoBoingo	I go outside to piss on the runty rose bush to give it much needed nitrogen and coyote darts out from behind my own motorcarriage an nips me on the shin.	[03:33]
BingoBoingo	Now I gotta dig a hole.	[03:33]
n6	wish my luck going to flip the bios	[03:33]
BingoBoingo	Fucking wild dogs that think they are small dogs ruining my chill weekday drinking night.	[03:34]
trinque	fuck that	[03:34]
n6	works,	[03:34]
trinque	n6: hey good job	[03:35]
trinque	you've got a computer that's quite useful for development now	[03:35]
BingoBoingo	All lines tonight were "acting" per http://trilema.com/the-crime-of-being-american Fuck it. Into the ditch with this bitch I'll deal with it in the morning	[03:37]
assbot	The crime of being American on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa319h )	[03:38]
*	assbot removes voice from n6	[03:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35950 @#64; 0.00058706 = 21.1048 BTC [+] {2}	[03:39]
trinque	!up n6	[03:39]
*	assbot gives voice to n6	[03:39]
n6	but im so beat down	[03:39]
n6	How would someone get gentoo installed without this level of support?	[03:39]
BingoBoingo	Whips?	[03:40]
trinque	I think the lesson here is that at least with current materials, they can't	[03:40]
trinque	I'm thinking a screen recording of the whole process would be helpful	[03:40]
punkman	n6, I usually give up long before	[03:41]
BingoBoingo	Nao hospitals have cranes for FUPA https://slimgur.com/image/AM7	[03:41]
assbot	Screenshot 2015 07 26 19 36 38 - SLiMGUR ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa3fNL )	[03:41]
trinque	I think it took me days to install gentoo the first time	[03:42]
trinque	17hrs isn't an awful score	[03:42]
trinque	"put together this car engine"	[03:43]
BingoBoingo	https://slimgur.com/images/2015/08/07/70f31e0a53765ba8ee7b4e198427d368.jpg	[03:43]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa3pob )	[03:43]
trinque	haha	[03:44]
BingoBoingo	Shit /= Chocolate	[03:44]
trinque	BingoBoingo: I depressed the shit out of myself listening to a Trump speech earlier	[03:44]
BingoBoingo	trinque: WHy do you think I drink?	[03:44]
trinque	idiots are going to eat up his pandering tough guy act	[03:44]
trinque	I see him as viable	[03:45]
trinque	look what the real estate bubble farted up	[03:45]
BingoBoingo	He's no more viable than the coyote I may or may not have kicked int he face in this past hour for the same reasons. He neck isn't strong. One swift kick to the neck and his head is in the wrong place.	[03:46]
trinque	I don't think for a moment that anyone outside the US will buy his act	[03:46]
trinque	he makes us look really weak	[03:46]
BingoBoingo	He looks really weak.	[03:47]
BingoBoingo	If he skips his aspirin he could clot out.	[03:47]
BingoBoingo	But as I said earlier media is proposing a Trump vs. Killed HP contest	[03:48]
punkman	https://web.archive.org/web/20130516060430/http://www.thelocal.se/7305/ << got a buddy that's getting ready to move to Sweden, utterly convinced their shit doesn't stink, "advanced society", etc.	[04:01]
assbot	Who pays for Sweden's free lunch? - The Local ... ( http://bit.ly/1MdHL48 )	[04:01]
BingoBoingo	"Nordic System" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LVl7ypltWU	[04:02]
assbot	World's Heaviest Woman Attempts To Lose Weight To Wed - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa4GM6 )	[04:02]
trinque	mod6: since grub is slow moving, might want to peg the guide to the current release with emerge =sys-boot/grub-2.02_beta2-r7 (or earlier) and use http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-08-2015#1228767	[04:03]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 06:14:16; trinque: grub2-install --target i386-pc /dev/sda	[04:03]
BingoBoingo	"Nordic System" https://slimgur.com/images/2015/06/22/686ebb483d98518be5e0e15cdd6a760f.jpg	[04:06]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1hmLtvg )	[04:06]
trinque	mod6: might also benefit from mentioning CSM on newer computers	[04:07]
punkman	and an anecdote from Belgium. Greek woman's parents, mined/shoveled coal. Greek woman was maid in hotel, a little later worked the hotel bar. She gets pregnant, goes on leave. When leave is over, manager helpfully fires her so he can spend time with kid and claim unemployment benefits.	[04:07]
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punkman	Later, gets job offer through unemployment office. Manager asks if she has kids, oh you do? and you like them? naturally I won't hire you, so you can keep collecting unemployment. Next job, didn't look so great, she complains asks for different one. As the years pass, fewer job offers to fend off.	[04:10]
punkman	Old woman, still on unemployment now.	[04:10]
mats	genius.	[04:11]
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punkman	Oldest son works the Big Four mines. Not rich, but paying off the loans for a couple apartment buildings.	[04:21]
punkman	I'm guessing the cycle will be complete next generation.	[04:22]
trinque	!up n6	[04:30]
*	assbot gives voice to n6	[04:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27090 @#64; 0.00058654 = 15.8894 BTC [-] {2}	[04:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28372 @#64; 0.00058305 = 16.5423 BTC [-]	[04:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18254 @#64; 0.00058305 = 10.643 BTC [-]	[04:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147469 @#64; 0.00058155 = 85.7606 BTC [-] {3}	[04:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164584 @#64; 0.00056136 = 92.3909 BTC [-] {5}	[04:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @#64; 0.00058716 = 22.8112 BTC [+] {2}	[05:07]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @#64; 0.00058717 = 23.1932 BTC [+]	[05:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68887 @#64; 0.00057102 = 39.3359 BTC [-] {3}	[05:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18706 @#64; 0.00058717 = 10.9836 BTC [+]	[05:33]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @#64; 0.00056078 = 13.5148 BTC [-]	[06:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5071 @#64; 0.00056047 = 2.8421 BTC [-] {3}	[06:07]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31650 @#64; 0.00058306 = 18.4538 BTC [+]	[06:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30600 @#64; 0.00057839 = 17.6987 BTC [-]	[06:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142292 @#64; 0.00057057 = 81.1875 BTC [-] {3}	[06:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108150 @#64; 0.00058306 = 63.0579 BTC [+]	[06:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23947 @#64; 0.00058306 = 13.9625 BTC [+]	[06:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63700 @#64; 0.00058306 = 37.1409 BTC [+] {3}	[07:02]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126860 @#64; 0.00058252 = 73.8985 BTC [-] {8}	[07:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96143 @#64; 0.00056046 = 53.8843 BTC [-]	[07:18]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56000 @#64; 0.00056046 = 31.3858 BTC [-] {3}	[07:24]
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shinohai	More FF woes: http://gizmodo.com/theres-a-firefox-exploit-in-the-wild-you-should-update-1722658068?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_twitter&utm_source=gizmodo_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow	[07:53]
assbot	There's a Firefox Exploit in the Wild—You Should Update Right Now ... ( http://bit.ly/1DuTYP5 )	[07:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54600 @#64; 0.00056338 = 30.7605 BTC [+]	[07:55]
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chetty	update right now!!! red flag for me, don't do it!	[07:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42850 @#64; 0.00056338 = 24.1408 BTC [+]	[07:59]
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shinohai	I am sure that update that was rushed out totally fixes all problems. You can trust us!	[08:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @#64; 0.00057792 = 16.4707 BTC [+]	[08:34]
cazalla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-08-2015#1226699 <<< i sit down with a beer on a friday night after a long hard week to catch up on logs and /r/coontown :	[08:41]
assbot	Logged on 06-08-2015 01:16:51; BingoBoingo: Oh, so /r/coontown was banned	[08:41]
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shinohai	cazalla: I think they are on voat somewhere, /v/niggers if memory serves ...	[08:56]
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shinohai	Wait, there is a /v/coontown too	[08:59]
cazalla	too much effort shinohai, voat isn't that lulzy, it is just the more dedicated post 24/7 nigger hate type of shit	[09:01]
shinohai	I haven't made up my mind yet if I care about voat enough to keep participating.	[09:02]
*	punkman1 is now known as punkman	[09:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85950 @#64; 0.00057162 = 49.1307 BTC [-] {3}	[09:08]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[09:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @#64; 0.00058838 = 36.4207 BTC [+] {4}	[09:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 245850 @#64; 0.00059168 = 145.4645 BTC [+] {7}	[09:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 229200 @#64; 0.00059339 = 136.005 BTC [+] {10}	[09:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103350 @#64; 0.00059387 = 61.3765 BTC [+]	[10:04]
shinohai	;;later tell BingoBoingo Haz you ever tried this browser? https://github.com/The-Compiler/qutebrowser	[10:08]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[10:08]
assbot	The-Compiler/qutebrowser · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1eXqygv )	[10:08]
mircea_popescu	Um, I'm in way over my head and going on 17 hours of gentoo << take your picture with your sad face next to a screen with gentoo failing on it, i'll pay you 0.1 BTC. just to prove a point.	[10:13]
mircea_popescu	and just you, i don't wanna be fucking bankrupt over here.	[10:13]
kakobrekla	l0l	[10:13]
shinohai	:D	[10:15]
shinohai	My only failure this week seems to be eulora, which I intend to remedy by not running on a shitty laptop.	[10:16]
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mircea_popescu	should work.	[10:21]
mircea_popescu	shinohai no but i just feel for the guy, gentoo is the last thing that made me want to burn the world, and through a very similar process as he describes.	[10:21]
shinohai	I value my sanity which is why I just stick to Debian mainly.	[10:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @#64; 0.00058571 = 24.307 BTC [-]	[10:25]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228808 << so your "Eating for breakfast" saying does after all have a figurative meaning, just not the one commonly used. more in the vein of http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8rkzvquKC1r83bj4o1_r2_1280.jpg	[10:26]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 06:21:08; ben_vulpes: "yes massa", in another age	[10:26]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1eXsa9Y )	[10:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115979 @#64; 0.00059608 = 69.1328 BTC [+] {6}	[10:26]
shinohai	^ Breakfast at La Serenissma hotel	[10:27]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228816 << notice where this is headed.	[10:27]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 06:23:31; trinque: if this is the case, the guide could specify known good versions of the components installed	[10:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @#64; 0.00057851 = 18.0495 BTC [-] {2}	[10:27]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228835 << aha. shoot the concept of "updates" in the head.	[10:28]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 06:26:16; trinque: is this problem solved by someone just signing a disk image and being done with it?	[10:28]
mircea_popescu	fuck alf's "fit in head". if it's large enough to ever need updating it shouldn't have made in the first place.	[10:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64772 @#64; 0.00057489 = 37.2368 BTC [-] {4}	[10:28]
mircea_popescu	i want an os made out of fucking pipes.	[10:29]
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mircea_popescu	"everything that runs on this machine is fifty lines of code or less. one display page."	[10:29]
mircea_popescu	"so what do you do ?!"	[10:29]
mircea_popescu	this \| that \| tee \| here & there.	[10:30]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228860 << if you actually got bit by a coyote you must go get your rabies shots right now. the chickenshits don't dare attack humans, especially not adult males or when they're alone.	[10:31]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 06:38:12; BingoBoingo: All lines tonight were "acting" per http://trilema.com/the-crime-of-being-american Fuck it. Into the ditch with this bitch I'll deal with it in the morning	[10:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51850 @#64; 0.00057464 = 29.7951 BTC [-]	[10:32]
chetty	fifty lines of code or less// so why even bother with a computer, just do it all in your head	[10:32]
shinohai	I just read that artice earlier this morning. Twas quite good.	[10:32]
mircea_popescu	chetty i can dream!	[10:32]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228873 << oh get the fuck out. making a baby takes half an hour tops. what is this!	[10:33]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 06:43:11; trinque: 17hrs isn't an awful score	[10:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34750 @#64; 0.00057438 = 19.9597 BTC [-] {3}	[10:34]
mircea_popescu	punkman he's probably in it for the titties. until he discovers some discoveries. which is in the end the point of both travel and being a young male.	[10:35]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228967 << how is this not the same ?	[10:35]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 13:29:10; mircea_popescu: fuck alf's "fit in head". if it's large enough to ever need updating it shouldn't have made in the first place.	[10:35]
mircea_popescu	it is it is.	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	BUT I GOTTA BRAND IT!	[10:36]
asciilifeform	l0l	[10:36]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228968 << you just described the dataflow box, aha	[10:36]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 13:29:19; mircea_popescu: i want an os made out of fucking pipes.	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	may i grow up into an adult as a personal process and in my own terms ? huh ? HUH ???	[10:36]
asciilifeform	(even bad old unix can satisfy if inserted into orifice correctly, e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-08-2015#1228190 )	[10:37]
assbot	Logged on 06-08-2015 23:24:40; ascii_field: diff -uNr a b \| awk 'm = /^(---\|+++)/{"sha512sum "" $2 """ \| getline x; split(x, a, " "); print $0 " " a[1]} !m { print $0 }'	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	it's one of the precursors. i saw that and i went "fucking hell, pipes. again. the solution."	[10:37]
asciilifeform	seriez of tooobz	[10:38]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228902 << it actually works, economically.	[10:39]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 07:12:05; mats: genius.	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	i know pretty much everyone here is very down on the whole concept, and perhaps you're right. but in point of fact, that thinking is at least in part supported by refusal to consider the plain fact that THERE IS NOTHING USEFUL FOR MOST WOMEN TO DO.	[10:40]
asciilifeform	^	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	computers replaced secretaries. drones replaced soldiers. robots replaced coal miners. better detergents replaced the maid.	[10:40]
asciilifeform	(or most anyone...)	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	other than stay the fuck at home and have babies, or else go to the bar and dance (the vertical bar ; nude dance) there is jack for her to do.	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	this entire "monkey with electric typerwriter" pseudo-occupation play-pretend-job that unites gawker, reddit and 4chan is NOT IN FACT WORK	[10:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: thing is, this used to be handled by being kept as pet	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	it's play-pretend work, for the intellectually immature girlies not yet ready to make their own dolls, still playing with barbie	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	and thinking making a bit of plastic "go naked to tea party" is a big todo	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it still is. who wants most people as pets ? not even the coyotes.	[10:42]
asciilifeform	point	[10:42]
chetty	some very limited thinking going on here	[10:42]
asciilifeform	?	[10:42]
chetty	THERE IS NOTHING USEFUL FOR MOST WOMEN TO DO.// or men	[10:43]
asciilifeform	aha, did say.	[10:44]
asciilifeform	in fact this is readily observable	[10:44]
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Adlai	drones have not replaced soldiers, just relocated them into air-conditioned cubicles	[10:53]
asciilifeform	what even is this 'replaced.' nobody cancelled old-fashioned soldiering.	[10:53]
Adlai	the classic soldier is about as useful as the classic knight	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	Adlai no jobsworth could ever replace soldiers.	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	the job of soldier has ended.	[10:54]
asciilifeform	and what, we're to believe that satellite-controlled airplanes replace men ?	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	the soldier himself is as eternal as dirt.	[10:54]
Adlai	"soldier" isn't over, but he can accomplish a lot more from much closer to the AC unit	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	but the original, socialistoid, eisenhowerian proposition that "soldiering's a job - full employment!" died in a pool of its own lye.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	chetty especially men.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	it's just, nobody cares about men, women people still care about.	[10:55]
Adlai	until some gaytheist alchemist figures out how to turn jizz into stem cells	[10:56]
mircea_popescu	i don't think it's reproduction based.	[10:56]
mircea_popescu	i actually think its curve-based. women just have better aesthetics.	[10:56]
Adlai	thus, 'gaytheist'	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	just like "the classical antiquity" seems to have made such excellent bronzes mostly because only the excellent ones survived the 9000+ cases where "must melt all bronze to make weapons".	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	people necessarily sort in a situation like that.	[10:57]
Adlai	"gaytheist, adj: caring for neither beauty nor divinity"	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[10:58]
chetty	i actually think its curve-based. women just have better aesthetics.// thats a male point of view, I prefer male aesthetics myself	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	perhaps.	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	Adlai the only thing he can accomplish there is ben_vulpes' breakfast.	[10:59]
Adlai	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMAhCCZDwtU9	[11:00]
assbot	Happy Gilmore - Pieces of Shit for Breakfast - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1UsWWrB )	[11:00]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228927 << how come these never read "devs fuck up "latest version" yet again. you should revert to last-known-good, from 5 years ago."	[11:02]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 10:53:39; assbot: There's a Firefox Exploit in the Wild—You Should Update Right Now ... ( http://bit.ly/1DuTYP5 )	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	how come. i wish to know this. HOW THE FUCK COME!	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	talking of limited thinking.	[11:03]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: naturally, engineered (via, e.g., 'gmail won't display in -5yr version' etc)	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	"you roll 22 and bust, you should double your bid!!11"	[11:03]
Adlai	5yoFF won't load Naphex's Options Emporium	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck in his right mind goes for seconds at the place that fucked it up.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	consumer culture, that's it. "the car you sold me sucked, i want you to give me another one"	[11:04]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: for lulz, boot up a -15+ yr. machine with browserz (esp. < ver. 10 'mac') and try reading with it	[11:04]
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mircea_popescu	why the everloving fuck would i want a car with better hidden failure modes from the creators of the car that sucked.	[11:04]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i use an antique lynx or an opera from	[11:04]
*	Adlai has progressed to doing most actual work from an X-less 'thin client', never been happier	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	2006!	[11:05]
Adlai	actual software runs on machines younger than a decade (but not much!), but it still has to speak text for this box to understand	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	my opera is from 10 years ago. works fucking fine.	[11:05]
asciilifeform	car that sucked >>> http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2009/03/welcome-to-fuffland.html << obligatory classic	[11:05]
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assbot	ClubOrlov: Welcome to Fuffland! ... ( http://bit.ly/1UsXAoV )	[11:05]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is why specific example of 'gmail' etc, which use scripts	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	fuck jwz with a stick.	[11:06]
shinohai	https://i.imgur.com/DEeFKyJ.png	[11:06]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1UsXFsE )	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	and i am still reeling over how imbecillic philg got over the years srsly.	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	old fucking age.	[11:06]
asciilifeform	all good & well until you need to display that browsable svg turd	[11:06]
Adlai	d00d, svg is text	[11:07]
asciilifeform	and click on the antecedents etc	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah it doesn't do svg worth a shit.	[11:07]
Adlai	svg is text	[11:07]
Adlai	load that into lisp, M-x slime-inspect, etc etc	[11:07]
kakobrekla	http://madsciencewriter.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-foreskin-why-is-it-such-secret-in.html	[11:07]
asciilifeform	Adlai: everything is text when you hexdump -C it	[11:07]
assbot	Mad Science Writer: The foreskin: Why is it such a secret in North America? ... ( http://bit.ly/1UsXHRc )	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	Adlai but we were discussing browsers.	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla ironically, because puritans of the 50s thought that the foreskin is a major factor in the disease of gayness	[11:07]
*	Adlai nominates M-x slime-inspect as a valid web browser, especially after ,ql closure	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	and if ytou cut it off the boys will be protected by Utilihova from becoming filthy fags.	[11:08]
kakobrekla	mhm	[11:08]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: iirc started off as an antimasturbatory notion	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	worked about as well as you'd expect, on the basis of the record of ustardian puritans.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that's what they CALLED it.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	but no.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	(masturbation, spending time alone, and generally not being a jock also parts of disease of gayness)	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	(explains turing perfectly!)	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	(also nazi party)	[11:09]
Adlai	venn diagram of "jock" and "gay" disagrees...	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	only recently.	[11:09]
shinohai	Eat moar Corn Flakes.	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	and, i might add, symptomatically, for the perspectives of being a libertard, the newly branded ustardian puritan.	[11:10]
shinohai	Kellog also advocated yogurt enemas to fight masturbation, which in my mind was just kink.	[11:11]
Adlai	well they do say that it's useless until it reaches the gut, sounds like optimization to me	[11:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20454 @#64; 0.00057696 = 11.8011 BTC [+]	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	shinohai wait, wut ?! link ?	[11:12]
shinohai	Sauce: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3185011/What-Corn-Flakes-masturbation-common-Mr-Kellogg-believed-sexual-desires-caused-disease-invented-plain-cereal-stop-self-pleasuring.html	[11:14]
assbot	Kellogg's Corn Flakes invented to stop masturbation and sexual desire \| Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1UsYyBu )	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	!rate decimation -1 Guy's been soft working teh #b-a for about a year and a half. Needless to say, it didn't work out.	[11:15]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/5928288793aeefd9	[11:15]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.decimation.-1:e02efb9e5119b44094f8e4c6c945e9317990425cc57168b24cb7ab8c0db78d5b	[11:16]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of -1 for decimation with note: Guy's been soft working teh #b-a for about a year and a half. Needless to say, it didn't work out.	[11:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28338 @#64; 0.00057763 = 16.3689 BTC [+] {3}	[11:18]
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asciilifeform	http://fas.org/irp/eprint/arens/chap4.htm << vintage lulz	[11:23]
assbot	OPERATION KETSU-GO ... ( http://bit.ly/1UsZCW7 )	[11:23]
ben_vulpes	drones have not replaced soldiers, just relocated them into air-conditioned cubicles << and only until the em wars get serious	[11:24]
mircea_popescu	or the power stays on.	[11:24]
ben_vulpes	hm?	[11:24]
ben_vulpes	oh oh	[11:24]
mircea_popescu	i always wondered if any star trek fans ever wondered what happens to the spaceship once saying "shields up!!" "shoot lasers!!" etc stops returning "enemy destroyed"	[11:25]
asciilifeform	radio-controlled fighting machines are not new. they were tried even by germany as 'wunderwaffen'	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform originally tried by michail paleologos as "heavenly host"	[11:25]
asciilifeform	l0l	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	aham.	[11:25]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: forgive my thickness but what is the breakfast reference?	[11:25]
asciilifeform	american sailors would turn on electric razor, sparks, and winged rocket fell into the sea.	[11:26]
Adlai	it really just depends on the war	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	didn't you say you eat them for breakfast ?	[11:26]
asciilifeform	modern machines are ~slightly~ harder to jam.	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	Adlai "war. war never changes."	[11:26]
Adlai	ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh	[11:26]
ben_vulpes	probably, but now i can't find the line in the logz	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	admire the irony of having been defeated by a quote from a videogame, in your quest to defend the videogame war.	[11:27]
mod6	hanbot: good news! thanks for the update	[11:27]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes it's five lines up from where you say "yes massa"	[11:27]
ben_vulpes	oh yeah	[11:28]
ben_vulpes	lunch	[11:28]
*	mircea_popescu is jetlagged.	[11:28]
Adlai	far from a 'videogame war', modern warfare is still quite shitty, but the precise nature (taste, color, proportion of black bile vs yellow) changes	[11:28]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229121 << visited island fortress ?	[11:29]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 14:28:23; *: mircea_popescu is jetlagged.	[11:29]
mircea_popescu	i guess this is to some degree true. war changes to favour offensive or defensive in a cycle. there's an excelent scene in der untergang, where a veteran field officer surveying the killing zone through stereoscopic periscope sees a bunch of green vulksstrums and yells for them to get the very fuck out of there already!	[11:29]
Adlai	it's much easier to look at the nature of warfare and say, "oh, it's changing like this, or like that", but the much more significant changes are in its objectives	[11:29]
mircea_popescu	why ? why should he wish for this ? after all, goebbels well observed "their determination" will make up for the lack of weaponry.	[11:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64050 @#64; 0.00057435 = 36.7871 BTC [-] {3}	[11:29]
ben_vulpes	why the everloving fuck would i want a car with better hidden failure modes from the creators of the car that sucked. << i was recently at a pitch from legaleze.io wherein the guy who runs the formdump site in question lionized marc andresen, and then displayed a pmarca tweet congratulating him for saying something 'grand' about 'software eating law'	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless, the vet knew enough from experience to know the war is now a defensive affair, and the only thing that matters is not being killed.	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	and the only thing "being a veteran" means is, "having loaded an endless list of don'ts"	[11:30]
ben_vulpes	why the shit do i want to listen to the asshole responsible for the broswer about how software is going to eat law?	[11:30]
Adlai	"it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left"	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	as orwell well observed, the airplane and the radio turned the war into a game of rats.	[11:30]
asciilifeform	rattenkrieg (tm) (r)	[11:30]
Adlai	both came long after the cannon	[11:30]
Adlai	which is itself dated by the crossbow	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes software is nevertheless eating law. except it happens somewhere other than there.	[11:31]
Adlai	the crossbow is the turning point where war went to shit	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	notrly. recall the unfortunate adventure of one mr orsini ?	[11:31]
ben_vulpes	i'm not arguing the point, i just don't see the point of engaging on 'formalizing the whole legal system' with a guy who generates xml from erb templates and thinks this is a good idea	[11:32]
asciilifeform	Adlai: and was not 'to shit' when turkic recurved bows were bugspraying europeans ?	[11:32]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes werd.	[11:32]
asciilifeform	or is 'to shit' only when the affair drags on, rather than over in a day because massacre of the unprepared	[11:32]
Adlai	crossbow marks the point where camping became +EV	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	it's "to shit" every time the contest moves from "who can hold his position in front of enemy with nary a care" to "who can hide best".	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	in this sense it went to shit once legion surpassed phalanx.	[11:33]
ben_vulpes	moreover "software is eating the law in the sense that bitcoin is here and we do gpg contracts now" is...beyond the derps.	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	and it kept going to shit. once english bowmen owned french cataphracts	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	etc etc.	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes myeah.	[11:33]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: notice that usg vermin are almost defined by their fondness of 'formalize but not really formalize	[11:33]
asciilifeform	'	[11:33]
asciilifeform	!s rule of law	[11:34]
mircea_popescu	it's this entire "try to find a trend to stand in front of"	[11:34]
assbot	48 results for 'rule of law' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rule+of+law	[11:34]
ben_vulpes	i finally left when he started talking about fuzzing the robocorps	[11:34]
ben_vulpes	as if!	[11:34]
mircea_popescu	almost like they're a legion of japanese tourists	[11:34]
asciilifeform	where is that canonical mega-turd...	[11:34]
mircea_popescu	"and here's me in front of the sphinx. notice this other guy is speaking to me about the sphinx"	[11:34]
asciilifeform	http://faculty.msb.edu/hasnasj/GTWebSite/MythWeb.htm << it	[11:34]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MS6Xx3 )	[11:34]
ben_vulpes	anywayz, what's the story with decimation, mircea_popescu?	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	it deeply fascinates me how alf does feel the need to maintain a -publicly stated!!!- corpus of humanities cannon, yet nevertheless does not feel this need about a corpus of software cannon.	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	it's almost as if he respects the scholar and despises the whore^H^H^H^H i mean programmer	[11:35]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not my fault there isn't a canon	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	except subconsciously.	[11:35]
asciilifeform	i despise the despicable	[11:35]
asciilifeform	and respect the respectable.	[11:35]
asciilifeform	like any normal person	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes there's no story. i dun trust him, an' now you know i don't.	[11:36]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know which of these a group noun falls into chiefly depends on how you examine.	[11:36]
mircea_popescu	lest you end up "despising jews".	[11:36]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: my understanding is that mircea_popescu kicked him for тунеядство.	[11:36]
asciilifeform	(doesn't translate, unfortunately. but you can read about what it is.)	[11:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69300 @#64; 0.00058108 = 40.2688 BTC [+]	[11:38]
asciilifeform	literally something like 'worklesseating'	[11:38]
asciilifeform	http://d3mlntcv38ck9k.cloudfront.net/content/konspekt_image/16840/8c8ddc9feaa4b49c90d4327bfec75e08.jpg	[11:39]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Ut1AFN )	[11:39]
asciilifeform	http://vk34.ru/assets/images/555/rossiya-tuneyadstvo-rossiya.jpg	[11:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Ut1Kx9 )	[11:40]
asciilifeform	etc.	[11:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: and it cannot be said that i do not believe in a 'software canon.' just that very few folks have heard of it, just as j. s. bach's music did not play for two centuries at one point. e.g., mccarthy's 'lisp 1.5'; weizenbaum's 'eliza'; ... many others	[11:42]
asciilifeform	there is a canon.	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	yet this same consideration (few foplks heard of) does not prevent you from linking say hasnasj	[11:42]
asciilifeform	but that music isn't playing today, except on the home organs of a few weirdos like yours truly	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	moreover, it's obviously self-healing. mention -> hearing.	[11:42]
ben_vulpes	what eating	[11:43]
*	mircea_popescu directs questions as to alf's interpretation of phenomena to alf directly.	[11:43]
ben_vulpes	is idling in #b-a now a crime?	[11:43]
mircea_popescu	nah.	[11:43]
ben_vulpes	i lack the cultural contex to appreciate "тунеядство" here	[11:43]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i finally came up with rough english ver.: 'freeload'	[11:44]
ben_vulpes	again, "what eating"	[11:44]
asciilifeform	of brain cycles, perhaps	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	"Sweden has traditionally relied heavily on the strong protestant work ethic of its citizens. A cornerstone of the country's welfare system has been a population which has been reluctant to misuse the system. Although taxes have been high and government benefits generous, the strong work ethic has stopped people from taking advantage of the welfare state. Alas, this attitude has been largely abandoned. As time has pass	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	ed, people have adapted to the system."	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	doh.	[11:45]
*	asciilifeform directs questions as to mircea_popescu's exercise of the -1 cannon to mircea_popescu directly	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	how to ruin ethic.	[11:46]
mircea_popescu	lol canon pun!	[11:46]
ben_vulpes	"compliance is a forest of fingers pointing at everyone else"	[11:46]
ben_vulpes	on a more interesting note, did you get a chance to digest my mL of pcap, asciilifeform?	[11:47]
ben_vulpes	i plan to take a hammer to the coracle's blockchain soon, would like to know if you see anything interesting in it	[11:47]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: sadly not. and probably won't today. writing most of a pc os for $redacted.	[11:47]
ben_vulpes	i took a brief hack at figuring out how to parse pcap dumps, but not very successfully	[11:48]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: 'wireshark'	[11:48]
ben_vulpes	nooooo	[11:48]
ben_vulpes	really?	[11:48]
asciilifeform	i mean, if for human consumption	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	“Why should I only get this handout only the months that I attend school?” Explaining that he needs money for going out with his friends and buying clothes all year round, the young author concluded: “I don’t have anything against working. But if the government doesn’t make sure that I have a job, it is their responsibility to pay me the handouts all year around”.	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	win.	[11:48]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: if it is to parse automatically on unattended spy satellite, then yes, something else, not wireshark	[11:49]
ben_vulpes	i am unsurprised to learn that software does not produce human parseable output at the command line	[11:49]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: as described in your article re: the herring fishermen, the scandinavians forgot what actual work looks like 1000 years ago.	[11:50]
mircea_popescu	just about.	[11:50]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: if you want raw packet payloads, tcpdump will disgorge'em.	[11:50]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: if you want intelligent slice&dice --- wireshark. or write own.	[11:50]
shinohai	http://gizmodo.com/north-korea-made-its-own-time-zone-to-tell-japan-to-fuc-1722684800	[11:50]
assbot	North Korea Made Its Own Time Zone to Tell Japan to Fuck Off ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ut3aaI )	[11:51]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: i don't know what i want - this whole project is an endless barrel of 'wtf'	[11:51]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: you only now realized this?!	[11:51]
ben_vulpes	no no just reiterating	[11:51]
ben_vulpes	but with emphasis on the grand scope of my ignorance	[11:51]
ben_vulpes	ofc it makes sense that i'd have to fire up wireshark on this thing eventually	[11:51]
*	ben_vulpes thinks	[11:51]
ben_vulpes	actually i have!	[11:52]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: recent wireshark actually tries to parse bitcoin	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes do not be surprised that cli tools do not put out stuff in a format you don't know	[11:52]
ben_vulpes	past experiments not worth mentioning.	[11:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6942 @#64; 0.00057337 = 3.9803 BTC [-]	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah i was impressed.	[11:52]
asciilifeform	just when i though i'd have to write a mod for it	[11:52]
asciilifeform	but it isn't tremendously useful, no	[11:52]
asciilifeform	because the inspection isn't stateful	[11:52]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes will learn soon enough what i meant.	[11:53]
shinohai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229230 <<< isn't this a good use case for your pipes, using sed & awk ?	[11:53]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 14:52:22; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do not be surprised that cli tools do not put out stuff in a format you don't know	[11:53]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: a) i don't know any formats and b) i stopped expecting things to behave in any particular way when i realized that "tar" is "tape archive"	[11:53]
ben_vulpes	s/realized/learned	[11:53]
mircea_popescu	:p	[11:53]
asciilifeform	speaking of tape, i've always lamented that no one sells a reel-to-reel for modern pc	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i don't exactly know how they'd do a better job	[11:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57922 @#64; 0.00057514 = 33.3133 BTC [+] {3}	[11:54]
asciilifeform	why shouldn't i be able to use arbitrary lengths of tape.	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	you will perhaps notice wireshark is taking a saner view of btc protocol than the power rangers	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	much to everyone else's eternal amusement.	[11:54]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: naturally, it is written for folks who do the grunt work	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	or in any case, has some people whoi can actually think in the userbase.	[11:55]
ben_vulpes	anyways, i'm off to coffee, breakfast, fire a girl, do the work she was supposed to do, and then the burbs for a sales meeting	[11:55]
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ben_vulpes	RUN MORE RAILS	[11:55]
asciilifeform	rather like a truck or a train, the design cannot be too insane	[11:55]
mircea_popescu	there's basically three types of things in this world : those who have nobody thinking in the userbase and don't care ; those who have some thinking people in the userbase and don't care	[11:55]
ben_vulpes	it keeps ben_vulpes' children fed	[11:55]
mircea_popescu	and the recent adition, those which have some untinking people in the userbase and don't carew.	[11:55]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes works on a railroad ?!!!	[11:56]
asciilifeform	that's new	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	he also digs up stones in congo.	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	rubies!	[11:56]
asciilifeform	ah ~that~ railroad	[11:56]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	failroad.	[11:56]
*	asciilifeform bbl, off to dig up some stones	[11:56]
*	assbot gives voice to mike_c	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	http://madsciencewriter.blogspot.com.ar/2013/05/the-foreskin-why-is-it-such-secret-in.html << this is an excellent anatomy write-up but (as is common for the past five centuries for some reason), a very poor phisiopathology write-up. of particular note : phimosis IS an actual pathologic state even if broadly misused. and dxo and a number of other genuine afflictions of the prepuce do legitimately exist.	[12:01]
assbot	Mad Science Writer: The foreskin: Why is it such a secret in North America? ... ( http://bit.ly/1MS9K9s )	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	(bxo*. balanitis xerotica obliterans)	[12:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114100 @#64; 0.00058343 = 66.5694 BTC [+]	[12:05]
mircea_popescu	diametric http://dpaste.com/2PMRDRP	[12:09]
assbot	dpaste: 2PMRDRP ... ( http://bit.ly/1MSaKKP )	[12:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48750 @#64; 0.00059508 = 29.0102 BTC [+] {5}	[12:10]
shinohai	https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_devlist/comments/3fov44/incentivising_full_nodes_by_having_spv_nodes_to/	[12:10]
assbot	Incentivising full nodes by having SPV nodes to pay for data requests \| Luv Khemani \| Aug 03 2015 : bitcoin_devlist ... ( http://bit.ly/1MSaZFP )	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[12:11]
*	Xuthus (~x@#64;unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 235850 @#64; 0.00060182 = 141.9392 BTC [+] {8}	[12:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93250 @#64; 0.00060387 = 56.3109 BTC [+] {3}	[12:22]
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*	ChanServ gives voice to assbot	[12:24]
*	ChanServ gives channel operator status to assbot	[12:24]
Adlai	!seen assbot	[12:36]
kakobrekla	assy doesnt do seen	[12:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106027 @#64; 0.00060463 = 64.1071 BTC [+] {4}	[12:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1823 @#64; 0.0006055 = 1.1038 BTC [+]	[12:41]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228860 << if you actually got bit by a coyote you must go get your rabies shots right now. the chickenshits don't dare attack humans, especially not adult males or when they're alone. << "acting" work of fiction it seems.	[12:45]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 06:38:12; BingoBoingo: All lines tonight were "acting" per http://trilema.com/the-crime-of-being-american Fuck it. Into the ditch with this bitch I'll deal with it in the morning	[12:45]
punkman	!rate williamdunne 1 small btc/gbp trade	[12:45]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/679c9cf2227dd1db	[12:45]
*	BingoBoingo creatively thinking outloud and venting my hate at the noise machines	[12:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76500 @#64; 0.00058014 = 44.3807 BTC [-] {4}	[12:51]
mike_c	mpoe flirting with 60.. what a bull run.	[12:53]
mike_c	short! short!	[12:54]
mike_c	!t h rent	[12:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00810003 / 0.0090831 / 0.01369000 (55 shares, 0.49957045 BTC), 30D: 0.00056038 / 0.01109156 / 0.01420000 (650 shares, 7.20951573 BTC)	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo aha.	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	mike_c h8r	[12:55]
mike_c	Just a contrarian. I have no idea if it's headed to 80 or 40.	[12:56]
ben_vulpes	dip was pretty short...	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	mike_c btw, am i ever gonna see you in game ? ?!?! ?!? ?!? !???	[12:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @#64; 0.0005842 = 14.0208 BTC [+]	[12:57]
mike_c	A good question. Short answer - yes. Long answer, I wonder if Eulora in its current state is good for a casual/short-on-time gamer.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[12:58]
mike_c	It seems like I would love it like I love Total War - If I have 20 hours a week to play it would be awesome.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	it is much easier to get +ev if you play casually than if you play intensively.	[12:58]
mike_c	Hm. Ok, well, then I will start aiming my 30-45 daily mins of play at Eulora then.	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	did i ever get you a starter package ?	[12:59]
mike_c	I got some lil bits of nothing	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	and skills ?	[12:59]
mike_c	I got some of my own skills exploring	[12:59]
chetty	low level players on eulora are in some demand	[12:59]
mike_c	Drank the murky what-not and cleared my head	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	yeah, you're needed to overcraft high level items for high level crafters to get them bps	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	and you can always mine, and low q mined stuff fetches a high % premium relative to their net value	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	the challenge in eulora, much like in business, is to scale up while maintaining profitability.	[13:01]
mike_c	I'll start poking again and see if danielpbarron can make use of me. He seems to be king of the land :)	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	what doesn't work is the 'i made a level in five minutes so i'll make 500 levels in 20 hours' linear thing from grinder mmorpgs.	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	eulora's very not linear.	[13:02]
mike_c	I'm not so worried about +ev though. I already have a job.	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	on the other hand yesterday i bought ~10mn worth of thorns.	[13:03]
mike_c	hehe	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	it can add up to dough.	[13:03]
mike_c	hopefully Eulora will accomodate me - someone who is perfectly happy with -ev as long as I'm having fun. This should help supply the people who are more interested in the money.	[13:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42666 @#64; 0.00060566 = 25.8411 BTC [+] {3}	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	well if it doesn't i wanna hear about it.	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	the game is very deeply meta atm, from what i've seen	[13:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67871 @#64; 0.00060577 = 41.1142 BTC [+]	[13:10]
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scoopbot_revived	Varia varietatis, or your All-About-The-Mollusc guide. http://trilema.com/2015/varia-varietatis-or-your-all-about-the-mollusc-guide/	[13:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35777 @#64; 0.0005842 = 20.9009 BTC [-]	[13:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38250 @#64; 0.00060642 = 23.1956 BTC [+] {3}	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	ha!	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	mmmwhahahahaah	[13:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34148 @#64; 0.00060673 = 20.7186 BTC [+]	[13:27]
punkman	http://www.wsj.com/article_email/3-d-printer-firms-fall-flat-as-buyers-wait-for-new-models-1438905355-lMyQjAxMTI1NzA3NzMwNjc2Wj	[13:27]
assbot	3-D Printer Firms Fall Flat, as Buyers Wait for New Models - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pb7EQm )	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	"let's redo the videogame winter because we're unique special snowflakes and who needs management"	[13:28]
mircea_popescu	win.	[13:28]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[13:28]
punkman	I like how "fall flat" means losing 10s of millions of bezzlars	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	the only difference being that the usg was not either powerful enough or attentive enough to give a shit either way about consoles in the 80s.	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	whereas it sure as shit doesn't want any more of that "printed gun" nonsense.	[13:29]
shinohai	I don't think that guy coud get any project off the ground. Darkwallet is a fail for sure.	[13:30]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@#64;unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	"The strategy for Ketsu-Go was outlined in an 8 April 1945 Army Directive.(4) It stated that the Imperial Army would endeavor to crush the Americans while the invasion force was still at sea. They planned to deliver a decisive blow against the American naval force by initially destroying as many carriers as possible, utilizing the special attack forces of the Air Force and Navy. When the amphibious force approached wit	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	hin range of the homeland airbases, the entire air combat strength would be employed in continual night and day assaults against these ships. In conducting the air operations, the emphasis would be on the disruption of the American landing plans. The principal targets were to be the troop and equipment transports. Those American forces which succeeded in landing would be swiftly attacked by the Imperial Army in order t	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	o seek the decisive victory. The principal objective of the land operation was the destruction of the American landing force on the beach."	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	happens to be the correct strategy.	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	(and yes, its perspectives for success are broadly why nuclear detonations were perfectly justified)	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	would have made japan into a sort of north korea.	[13:47]
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mircea_popescu	"One campaign unit of fire was sufficient ammunition for one campaign - generally understood to be a three month supply.(21) This called for the following rounds per weapon: 1,000 rounds per field piece, 25,000 rounds per machine gun, and 240 rounds per rifle." << contrary to what one would expect on the basis of "aciton movies", the expected rate of fire of a rifle in war is ~2 shots/day.	[13:53]
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mircea_popescu	!up King_Rex	[13:54]
-assbot-	You voiced King_Rex for 30 minutes.	[13:54]
*	assbot gives voice to King_Rex	[13:54]
King_Rex	ty mircea_popescu	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	sure. who're you ?	[13:54]
King_Rex	lurker, very interested in deedbot and the bitcoin foundation and your node efforts	[13:54]
shinohai	!up ascii_field	[13:55]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[13:56]
King_Rex	i am kicking myself for not joing the wot in '11	[13:57]
King_Rex	i will do so soon	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	good idea.	[13:58]
trinque	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228964 << cool, I'm taking this on then.	[13:58]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 13:28:54; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228835 << aha. shoot the concept of "updates" in the head.	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	hm ?	[13:59]
trinque	sounds like a disk image and accompanying livecd which can deploy it	[13:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @#64; 0.00060673 = 2.3056 BTC [+]	[13:59]
trinque	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228835	[13:59]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 06:26:16; trinque: is this problem solved by someone just signing a disk image and being done with it?	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	well, it can be a signed binary, but only after it is a pile of source.	[13:59]
trinque	certainly; I've got scripts around building these disk images already	[13:59]
trinque	just need to package it up nicely	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	but yes. being able to tell new people "do http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225687 or else, AT YOUR OPTION, if you have the time, and the expertise, here'sd the source, read it, sign it, ml the receipt" way beats having to tell new people http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1228947	[14:01]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 14:28:09; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's what i want to accomplish, as a goal : i want to be able to put up a linux system, then go curl http://trilema.com/autobitcoin.sh \| gpg -verify > autobitcoin.sh. and then run that autobitcoin.sh, which auto-follows the changes of people i have selected for this task, builds them and runs them	[14:01]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 13:13:30; mircea_popescu: Um, I'm in way over my head and going on 17 hours of gentoo << take your picture with your sad face next to a screen with gentoo failing on it, i'll pay you 0.1 BTC. just to prove a point.	[14:01]
trinque	right, thing needs a damn on-ramp	[14:02]
trinque	I'll hack on this over the weekend	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	not least of all because i only haver so many btc.	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	and people only have so much frustration dampener.	[14:02]
ascii_field	wai wut	[14:06]
trinque	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225690 << absolutely	[14:06]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 14:30:12; mircea_popescu: and i know this can be done because it's how fucking viruses work.	[14:06]
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trinque	in the case of bitcoind dev, sure, barriers are great	[14:06]
trinque	in the case of people wanting to join the WoT and have a real computer, not so great	[14:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20725 @#64; 0.00060369 = 12.5115 BTC [-]	[14:08]
ascii_field	'Except... it isn't. Ahh, that exquisite flavour on the roof of your mouth, when "Automatic Updates" pops up a textbox to "inform" you that your OS is "no longer supported"v which can not be closed because the process that spawned it died in a "futex wait me" state as if this is actually a fucking thing, and then it can't be turned off, because if one goes to follow the process that supposedly turns it off that one	[14:08]
ascii_field	discovers the respective variables were zeroed out already.' << win	[14:08]
trinque	!up n6	[14:09]
*	assbot gives voice to n6	[14:09]
trinque	n6: btw, you survived gentoo quest; get in the wot :)	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field aha	[14:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @#64; 0.0005927 = 30.1981 BTC [-] {3}	[14:12]
trinque	I will base this cd on the amd64-nomultilib guide unless there are objections	[14:16]
trinque	it seems like using an alternative libc might cause unnecessary n00b pain	[14:17]
ascii_field	ick	[14:17]
ascii_field	death to glibc.	[14:17]
trinque	well, I agree	[14:17]
trinque	hence request for comment	[14:17]
ascii_field	not 'for n00bz', not for dogs, not for cats	[14:17]
ascii_field	not fit for life	[14:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9772 @#64; 0.00058638 = 5.7301 BTC [-]	[14:17]
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diametric	mircea_popescu: ty ty	[14:24]
*	assbot removes voice from King_Rex	[14:24]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[14:25]
BingoBoingo	!up ascii_field	[14:25]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[14:25]
BingoBoingo	!up King_Rex	[14:26]
*	assbot gives voice to King_Rex	[14:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 178150 @#64; 0.00060814 = 108.3401 BTC [+] {8}	[14:29]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229329 << these are not 'the 3d printer firms'. well, they are, but they make 'golden toilets' that no hobbyist ever touched	[14:38]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 16:28:06; punkman: http://www.wsj.com/article_email/3-d-printer-firms-fall-flat-as-buyers-wait-for-new-models-1438905355-lMyQjAxMTI1NzA3NzMwNjc2Wj	[14:38]
ascii_field	they are '3d printer' in the same sense that sco 'is' unix	[14:39]
*	assbot removes voice from n6	[14:40]
punkman	I've touched them	[14:40]
punkman	but I know plenty of golden-toilet in that area	[14:40]
ascii_field	i did too. a 'stratasys' was sold for a couplea hundy at my university's surplus shop	[14:41]
ascii_field	the giant powder-sintering thing	[14:41]
ascii_field	complete with sandblast cabinet	[14:41]
ascii_field	and 'glove box'	[14:41]
diametric	^ powder-gluing z-corp. similar but instead of melting powder together, it glues it with an inkjet type nozzle.	[14:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12575 @#64; 0.00061007 = 7.6716 BTC [+]	[14:45]
ascii_field	^ probably it	[14:45]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86222 @#64; 0.00061217 = 52.7825 BTC [+] {4}	[14:49]
shinohai	http://thenextweb.com/media/2015/08/07/bad-buzz/ <<< ooops	[14:50]
assbot	BuzzFeed's Editor-In-Chief 'accidentally' leaked private DMs ... ( http://bit.ly/1DvJajI )	[14:50]
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*	shinohai is now seeing why ascii_field hates glibc so much	[15:04]
BingoBoingo	https://cryptome.org/2015-info/trump-hair/trump-hair-history.htm vs. https://cryptome.org/2015-info/hillary-hair/hillary-hair-history.htm	[15:06]
assbot	Trump Hair History ... ( http://bit.ly/1gjegQx )	[15:06]
assbot	Hillary Hair History ... ( http://bit.ly/1gjeh7g )	[15:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63800 @#64; 0.00061385 = 39.1636 BTC [+]	[15:09]
ben_vulpes	i musta missed the memo on eulora being an okay casual play	[15:10]
ben_vulpes	might try again, ask for pointers	[15:11]
danielpbarron	at the very least you should all get the craftbot and leave it running overnight	[15:11]
danielpbarron	and coming soon, a mining bot	[15:12]
ben_vulpes	right.	[15:12]
ben_vulpes	explorationbot?	[15:12]
danielpbarron	it's the new early adopter bitcoin mining!	[15:12]
danielpbarron	ya	[15:12]
danielpbarron	i guess it's supposed to explore and build the tiny/small claims as it goes	[15:12]
ben_vulpes	i'd not mind learning a bit more about the thing so's i can have some fun automating it	[15:12]
danielpbarron	and hopefully lock the ordinary/remarkables	[15:12]
ben_vulpes	'twas always my gripe with eve.	[15:12]
danielpbarron	botting is not only allowed, not only encouraged, but rewarded!	[15:13]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[15:13]
danielpbarron	there are prizes available for writing these things	[15:13]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:13]
ben_vulpes	plus i feel thooper thtupid asking all of the "how ams" questions i had about eulora last time	[15:13]
ascii_field	almost forgot, from last night:	[15:13]
ben_vulpes	right right	[15:13]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu, mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: diff -uNr a b \| awk 'm = /^(---\|+++)/{s="sha512sum "" $2 "" 2>/dev/null " \| getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} print $0 " " o} !m { print $0 }'	[15:13]
ascii_field	achtung, panzers ^^^	[15:13]
ascii_field	;;later tell mircea_popescu ^^^	[15:13]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[15:13]
ben_vulpes	now there's some perl.	[15:13]
ascii_field	no perl!	[15:14]
ben_vulpes	i know, just ribbing	[15:14]
ascii_field	this inserts 'false' in place of sha512's of files which do not exist in a (or b)	[15:14]
ascii_field	ergo is a complete solution to the antecedent-embedding diff which i suggested to mircea_popescu earlier this week.	[15:15]
ascii_field	wrote before going to bed last night, forgot to post.	[15:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19056 @#64; 0.00061385 = 11.6975 BTC [+]	[15:15]
ben_vulpes	nifty indeed	[15:15]
ascii_field	the 'patch' on my systems eats these happily, disregarding the extra bit	[15:16]
ascii_field	others - please say if this is/is not the case on theirs.	[15:16]
ben_vulpes	i'll have to cook up a test case or so	[15:17]
punkman	https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/23/call-off-the-bee-pocalypse-u-s-honeybee-colonies-hit-a-20-year-high/	[15:27]
assbot	Call off the bee-pocalypse: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1KVYqZK )	[15:27]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @#64; 0.00061492 = 20.8458 BTC [+] {3}	[15:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39950 @#64; 0.00061505 = 24.5712 BTC [+]	[15:32]
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jurov	http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/06/la-serenissima-fender-flags-a-modest-proposal/#comment-25365 hahahahaha	[15:44]
assbot	La Serenissima fender flags: a modest proposal \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1IwmpbS )	[15:44]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[15:44]
shinohai	!up ascii_field	[15:44]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:44]
gernika	General question - is there value in continuing to test stator, and future versions of it, on OpenBSD? Or should I abandon that and just test on Gentoo from now on?	[15:44]
jurov	why not?	[15:44]
ascii_field	^	[15:44]
ascii_field	test on 'minix' if you feel like.	[15:45]
ben_vulpes	mod6 has a hardon for openbsd	[15:45]
ben_vulpes	twould please him no end to see test reports coming in from that platform	[15:45]
gernika	Because I won't be able to build it "deterministically" without rotor. Was my thinking.	[15:45]
ben_vulpes	i still maintain hope that libressl can be used too	[15:45]
trinque	ben_vulpes: also happens to have an installer that isn't a field of broken glass	[15:46]
ascii_field	who knows, the day may come when we gotta get the cosmoline grease off bsd and run it. like the ww2 tanks taken off their monument pedestals and sent to fight in donetsk	[15:46]
ben_vulpes	who knows, we may have to take a dependency on forthos too	[15:46]
trinque	parted doesn't even work right; I just bitched about it in #parted	[15:46]
ascii_field	l0lwut	[15:46]
trinque	can't just fart a bunch of command into it like an interpreter	[15:47]
trinque	though the --script flag would suggest otherwise	[15:47]
gernika	Incidentally I spent about 1hr attempting to build rotor on OpenBSD - got buried in tiny differences between bsd/linux.	[15:48]
trinque	gernika: please do make note of these differences	[15:48]
trinque	and post to the ML	[15:48]
ascii_field	gernika: that thing exists for linux !	[15:48]
ascii_field	to get out of glibc !	[15:48]
trinque	oh right, derp	[15:48]
*	shinohai hopes ascii_field will post a rotor build log for arm folks soon ...	[15:49]
trinque	quick googling suggests people have tried it	[15:49]
gernika	Ah right. No problems building statically on OpenBSD.	[15:49]
danielpbarron	deedbot- http://danielpbarron.com/xmacro.tar.gz.sha512.asc.txt	[15:50]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Iwnkcn )	[15:50]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[15:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90461 @#64; 0.00061497 = 55.6308 BTC [-] {7}	[15:54]
jurov	https://blogs.gentoo.org/blueness/2015/08/04/alt-libc-the-state-of-uclibc-and-musl-in-gentoo-part-1/ we're not alone	[15:56]
assbot	alt-libc: The state of uClibc and musl in Gentoo (part 1) \| Anthony G. Basile ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iwo3u5 )	[15:56]
ascii_field	^ pretty much nothing about musl	[15:58]
ben_vulpes	https://blogs.gentoo.org/blueness/2015/07/31/the-gentoo-reference-system-suite-a-new-release-engineering-tool/	[15:59]
assbot	The “Gentoo Reference System” suite: a new Release Engineering tool. \| Anthony G. Basile ... ( http://bit.ly/1KW0WPs )	[15:59]
ben_vulpes	attn trinque	[15:59]
ascii_field	^ appealing idea. but unless he does the decidedly un-sexy step of 'closing the universe' and nailing down packages ~FOREVER~ - it will fall apart. in exactly the same way every other distro did.	[16:00]
ben_vulpes	seems like a similar approach to what trb and eulora are doing	[16:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85005 @#64; 0.00061333 = 52.1361 BTC [-] {3}	[16:02]
ascii_field	imho ^ is doomed on account of video boards	[16:02]
ascii_field	at least the 'nail down' part is	[16:02]
ascii_field	N years from now, they will be forced to permit crapolade that does not exist at this moment	[16:02]
ascii_field	or face the choice of asking players to buy vintage cards	[16:03]
ben_vulpes	i imagined a path the other night where chetty actually stopped maintaining her owhn client	[16:03]
ben_vulpes	in favor of a few different text based ones	[16:03]
ascii_field	l0l text-based	[16:03]
ascii_field	what, it'll be a '80s mud ?	[16:03]
ben_vulpes	what did eve need graphics for?	[16:03]
ascii_field	ask mircea_popescu, who paid a pretty penny to commission the graphics	[16:04]
ascii_field	and who, if the screenshots on his www are anything to go on, is playing the video version	[16:04]
ben_vulpes	i think you misunderstand the question.	[16:05]
ben_vulpes	eve, the game.	[16:05]
ben_vulpes	arguably needed nographics.	[16:05]
ben_vulpes	in fact those who run its economy rarely even leave the spreadsheets	[16:05]
trinque	if I'm taking this on I'm hesitant to use someone else's tool	[16:05]
ben_vulpes	"spreadsheets in space" (tm)	[16:05]
ben_vulpes	trinque: more for consideration	[16:05]
trinque	I am doing more or less what's described there	[16:05]
mod6	<+ben_vulpes> twould please him no end to see test reports coming in from that platform << certainly let me know how it goes. yeah, might have issues with rotor on there. I'm still sync'ing my obsd bitcoind build (patched up through -verifyall).	[16:06]
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danielpbarron	i play the video version; it's not so bad	[16:06]
danielpbarron	but at the moment, most of the things I do, do not require seeing the 3d world	[16:07]
danielpbarron	in the future i imagine there will be epic battles between guilds or whatever, and in that case the 3d world will be necessary	[16:07]
ben_vulpes	if i recall the con3-versations on the topic, pve's the real game	[16:08]
ben_vulpes	all ps vs the e	[16:08]
ben_vulpes	but who knows	[16:08]
danielpbarron	what is that? player vs everyone?	[16:09]
ben_vulpes	players vs environment	[16:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @#64; 0.00061558 = 24.3154 BTC [+]	[16:09]
danielpbarron	i'm pretty sure there's going to also be PvP	[16:09]
ben_vulpes	grues becoime valueable, everyone goes for them, hunts into extinction, their prey emerges	[16:09]
ben_vulpes	myeah	[16:09]
ben_vulpes	i just recall faint intimations that it wasn't quite the focus as it is in eve or wow	[16:10]
ben_vulpes	how then to hold territory i guess is a question	[16:10]
*	ben_vulpes shrugs	[16:10]
ben_vulpes	i have no idea, disregard	[16:10]
danielpbarron	understandable, as PvP only makes sense when the first 'M' in MMO becomes reality	[16:10]
trinque	seems an environment to learn how to think in terms of economics	[16:10]
trinque	economic survival game	[16:10]
trinque	within that category both pve and pvp make sense	[16:11]
danielpbarron	yes it is that first and foremost as is any accurate simulation of human life	[16:11]
trinque	player-vs-life	[16:11]
trinque	danielpbarron: indeed	[16:11]
danielpbarron	there are like.. 12 players right now. wouldn't make much sense for us to start killing each other (not that death has been implemented yet)	[16:11]
danielpbarron	speaking of which, come get your subsidized-by-no-death freebees in bare-handed gathering while it lasts	[16:12]
danielpbarron	every /explore is a chance to get $MAXINT (no, seriously)	[16:12]
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*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:14]
trinque	maybe when I win at gentoo rpg	[16:14]
ben_vulpes	remember	[16:15]
ben_vulpes	gentoo rpg is now just a subquest of bitcoinrpg	[16:15]
*	danielpbarron plays eulora on gentoo	[16:16]
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trinque	ben_vulpes: yar	[16:17]
trinque	bitcoin, the magnetic field pulling all iron filaments into alignment	[16:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112900 @#64; 0.00060557 = 68.3689 BTC [-] {7}	[16:17]
chetty	in favor of a few different text based ones//I like it	[16:18]
ben_vulpes	in other news, americans still can't manage: https://open.bufferapp.com/self-management-hierarchy/	[16:19]
assbot	What We Got Wrong About Self-Management ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iwrscp )	[16:19]
*	assbot gives voice to thestringpuller	[16:19]
thestringpuller	danielpbarron: that's the best time to kill each other. don't you play minecraft?	[16:19]
danielpbarron	used to play minecraft	[16:19]
danielpbarron	i played on MCPVP, the most hardcore pvp server there was	[16:20]
danielpbarron	specialized in tracking down bases and selling the coordinates to raid parties	[16:20]
danielpbarron	few things in this world more satisfying then pwning someone's loot stash	[16:20]
trinque	ben_vulpes: "seeking a flat structure was a misperception of what self-management means" << wahahahaha	[16:20]
trinque	our solution was to redefine the word!	[16:21]
thestringpuller	danielpbarron: you ever play a tale in the desert?	[16:21]
danielpbarron	i don't know what that is, so no	[16:21]
thestringpuller	http://www.atitd.com/	[16:22]
danielpbarron	hahha yeah right i'm gonna play some game that isn't eulora	[16:22]
danielpbarron	until recently i had given up on computer gaming completely	[16:22]
thestringpuller	lol. playing a game isn't a requisite for reading about it?	[16:23]
thestringpuller	iirc chetty said it was an inspiration.	[16:24]
danielpbarron	ah, actually i may have actually tried this	[16:25]
danielpbarron	long ago	[16:25]
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*	jurov beacme involuntary participant in underhanded C contest	[19:12]
jurov	http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-08-07.log.html#t22:05:56	[19:12]
assbot	#Eulora log for Friday, 2015-08-07 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dwer60 )	[19:12]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118000 @#64; 0.00057821 = 68.2288 BTC [-] {7}	[19:25]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36807 @#64; 0.00057059 = 21.0017 BTC [-] {2}	[19:26]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @#64; 0.0005706 = 9.1581 BTC [+] {3}	[19:34]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229424 << well wadda ya waiting for	[19:38]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 18:12:58; ben_vulpes: i'd not mind learning a bit more about the thing so's i can have some fun automating it	[19:38]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229433 << it's pearly :D	[19:40]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 18:13:49; ascii_field: mircea_popescu, mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: diff -uNr a b \| awk 'm = /^(---\|+++)/{s="sha512sum "" $2 "" 2>/dev/null " \| getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} print $0 " " o} !m { print $0 }'	[19:40]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229455 << yes.	[19:40]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 18:44:44; gernika: General question - is there value in continuing to test stator, and future versions of it, on OpenBSD? Or should I abandon that and just test on Gentoo from now on?	[19:40]
mircea_popescu	the criteria for being "ba canonical os" is for it to fucking work, not for it to be fucking unique.	[19:40]
trinque	I have put some work into this today. I converted mod6's guide to a script which builds a bootable root.img	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229495 << hey, there was no problem asking players to buy specified cards for 20 yeasrs, and telling players "You can't play for lack of specified card"	[19:43]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 19:03:20; ascii_field: or face the choice of asking players to buy vintage cards	[19:43]
trinque	used lilo too	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	THIS NEED NOT CHANGE.	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	except, fuck "progress". learn tradition.,	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	you want to play, get a real card. FROM THE PAST.	[19:43]
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mircea_popescu	breakage is breakage. we're doing it.	[19:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @#64; 0.0005706 = 5.1925 BTC [+]	[19:44]
trinque	mircea_popescu: thought here is to image a USB drive, and have that thing be able to push-button image a computer it has booted	[19:44]
chetty	nest we will need a time machine	[19:44]
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trinque	iso's easily done too	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	chetty no. the "use specified card, spec=future" thing is braindamaged. nobody has cards from the future.	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	the "use specified card, spec = p[ast" is sustainable.	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	cards from the past were made, and therefore can be made. period and full fucking stop.	[19:44]
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mircea_popescu	break the entire usian industry that relies on "new".	[19:45]
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chetty	ok, time machine to go in the past and retieve useable cards ..	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	no more of that. all the way down to the bedrock.	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	if they were dumb enough to lose the recipes, they'll have to reimplement based on our os.	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	this "progress" bullshit is dumb and must die. there's nothing in the future but a buggy, half assed, stupid reimplementation of the past.	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	and no, technology doesn't "change everything". technology changes nothing and never did.	[19:46]
chetty	well cars smell better than horses	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	do they now.	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	i never heard of horse smog.	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	"Error : Your videocard is not old enough for you to be here. Get an older videocard and come back". this is what i wish to see.	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	ubiquitously.	[19:47]
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shinohai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229602 I like this philosophy	[19:49]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 22:45:19; mircea_popescu: break the entire usian industry that relies on "new".	[19:49]
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jurov	hardware does break down.... will mircea_popescu take over chinese factories to manufacture old stuff?	[19:50]
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trinque	problem to worry about when the metric shitloads of old hardware available everywhere vanish	[19:50]
danielpbarron	i bought this laptop (the one on which I play Eulora) specifically for its video card; at the time I needed to be able to play Dota and minecraft on linux	[19:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123200 @#64; 0.00057021 = 70.2499 BTC [-] {6}	[19:51]
trinque	scrap shop nearby has entirely passable computers for 50 bucks	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	jurov yes.	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	will you take over the writing of your language and write stuff jurov ?	[19:52]
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mircea_popescu	da fuck question is this.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	i'm not twelve.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	if i'm not taking it over, who the fuck is, "the state" ? aliens ? chtulhu ?	[19:53]
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mircea_popescu	i ain't waiting for jwz to wake up.	[19:53]
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mircea_popescu	i'll take over the us fed and run it from right here, and if there's nobody else i'll take over fucking china silicon and run it from right here too. what in the ever loving fuck.	[19:54]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229496 << eulora client is actually community maintained. always has been.	[19:55]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 19:03:22; ben_vulpes: i imagined a path the other night where chetty actually stopped maintaining her owhn client	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	and there's no particular intention for there to only be one.	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229502 << i am, and i did, and i see no problem with any of this. you may go to a museum whether you wish to take notes or draw copies, why should anyone care ? "oh but the statues were expensive to make, how dare you write abnout them, you should draw! el minimo respeto!!11" ??	[19:56]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 19:04:47; ascii_field: and who, if the screenshots on his www are anything to go on, is playing the video version	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229524 << not at all the case. it's just not implemented yet, but otherwise, add "permadeath" and "universal pvp" see what it comes to.	[19:58]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 19:10:23; ben_vulpes: i just recall faint intimations that it wasn't quite the focus as it is in eve or wow	[19:58]
mircea_popescu	for that matter, eulora is not pve, it's evp. in point of fact player activity will attract environment challenges. you build a house, ogres come to it sort of thing.	[19:58]
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mircea_popescu	so it's not that it's not "pvp based" it's more that even its pve is really pvp by another name.	[19:58]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229535 < < yeah fact is the players are yet very poor - plenty of items haven't even been crafted yet, most types of claims haven't been found etc. it's cooperative necessarily, like stranded people on an island/plane crash site don't exactly start bvuilding forts and playing war.	[20:00]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 19:12:10; danielpbarron: there are like.. 12 players right now. wouldn't make much sense for us to start killing each other (not that death has been implemented yet)	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	so not yet really implemented. but... the shadows await, all around, every night. and in the shadows, the grues...	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229558 << ;lol this guy	[20:02]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 19:22:41; danielpbarron: hahha yeah right i'm gonna play some game that isn't eulora	[20:02]
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mircea_popescu	https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/6a3f639cbbdd78bf333d09b73bcdca3c?s=96&d=mm&r=g << this dude's deeply retarded srsly.	[20:04]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MSXXaX )	[20:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @#64; 0.00057639 = 19.3091 BTC [+]	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	if he iomagines that screeching pile of a failure mode is "lessons learned" and whatnot...	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	"we make doing nothing on vc money less painful emotionally and so cvould you!"	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	i'd rather read about flies fuck	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	(in a jar, in a lab, in which someone put glucose. of course.)	[20:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66750 @#64; 0.00057639 = 38.474 BTC [+]	[20:07]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51247 @#64; 0.00059956 = 30.7257 BTC [+] {4}	[20:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71137 @#64; 0.00059959 = 42.653 BTC [+]	[20:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97200 @#64; 0.00058846 = 57.1983 BTC [-]	[20:18]
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mircea_popescu	trinque ubuntu folks had the process down pat for their thing, which is how i even ended up recommending it, briefly.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	sadly, it did it for ubuntu.	[20:23]
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trinque	mircea_popescu: I'm close; show ya something tomorrow	[20:23]
trinque	and if there are suggestions on different libc, etc., should be very easy to change	[20:23]
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mircea_popescu	doing what, glibc gentoo ?	[20:24]
trinque	yep, but could just as well be musl	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	and cli only ?	[20:25]
trinque	I am open to offering options like the openbsd installer for say X, other things	[20:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97400 @#64; 0.00059967 = 58.4079 BTC [+] {3}	[20:25]
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mircea_popescu	should probably include an x and a sound, at least eventually.	[20:25]
trinque	for sure	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	i mean, where you headed with this maybe im confused. is this noob system ?	[20:26]
trinque	yep, noob system	[20:26]
trinque	response to my interaction with n6	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	yeah. someone who deeply understands emacs could write a 100 page READABLE! INTERESTING! EMPOWERING! guide to emacs for it.	[20:26]
trinque	and that's been the rub I think; what's the answer for a developer that shows up, and what's the answer for someone that wants to turn his life around	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	but i fucking mean poetry, do not drone on like tech people do.	[20:26]
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mircea_popescu	all sorts of fun, useful & profitable derivations can be hooked on. good idea.	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	was there a "lisp for 12 yos" anywhere ?	[20:28]
trinque	I once read The Little Schemer, wasn't bad	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	i don't recall if we like or loathe scheme	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	!s scheme	[20:29]
assbot	506 results for 'scheme' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=scheme	[20:29]
trinque	whereas CL appears to value completeness, scheme heads for the minimal set of primitives from which higher functionality can be derived	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	i guess we like it.	[20:30]
trinque	latter seems appropriate for a student	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[20:30]
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mircea_popescu	and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/c9d4ff83a823627155ae18cd303fc8fe/tumblr_ne67eaH7DB1soaauko1_1280.jpg	[20:32]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1IwZ3TC )	[20:32]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58017 @#64; 0.00060262 = 34.9622 BTC [+] {4}	[20:37]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229582 << if meant 'perly', i welcome suggestions of how it could be made less so. but - the incantation works. i encourage folks to try it. presently investigating how to re-sign things while preserving all timestamps.	[20:40]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 22:40:14; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229433 << it's pearly :D	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	i am ALSO just ribbing you.	[20:41]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229596 << i've been making something quite like this. (see last bullet in aug.'15 s.nsa broadcast for summary)	[20:42]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 22:44:28; trinque: mircea_popescu: thought here is to image a USB drive, and have that thing be able to push-button image a computer it has booted	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	so work together eh ?	[20:42]
mircea_popescu	help the guy draw the spec document and then let him do it, free a hand	[20:42]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229616 << laugh, but this is happening. esp. concerning gpu: several whole generations of nvidia products suffer from the dreaded bga ball defect, and have strictly limited lifespan.	[20:43]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 22:51:01; trinque: problem to worry about when the metric shitloads of old hardware available everywhere vanish	[20:43]
asciilifeform	the vendors are insistent that this is no longer happening, but there is strong reason to not believe this any more than anything else that ever came out of their mouths	[20:44]
asciilifeform	possibly 'rohs'/leadfree solder are at fault	[20:44]
asciilifeform	and nobody cancelled them or is about to	[20:44]
asciilifeform	(even cn is mostly unleaded now, in response to eu pressure)	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	if it takes crushing the eu, the eu will be crushed.	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	anything it takes.	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	the "new" bullshit is going away.	[20:46]
shinohai	dat ass mp	[20:47]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229671 << i own the whole series (all but the idiot java volume.) some of'em coloured by old gf, even. just last week got the latest 'little prover' in the post!	[20:47]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 23:29:18; trinque: I once read The Little Schemer, wasn't bad	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	fortunately this is a point that won't take a second pass to explain to the chinese. or, for the most part, to the russians.	[20:47]
asciilifeform	aha	[20:48]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229680 << woah, posh private lane.	[20:48]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 23:32:25; mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/c9d4ff83a823627155ae18cd303fc8fe/tumblr_ne67eaH7DB1soaauko1_1280.jpg	[20:48]
*	asciilifeform envious	[20:48]
asciilifeform	acoustic lining, even	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	i thought this is how ranges are ?!	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	how the fuck else ?	[20:49]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ahahahahahaha not here.	[20:49]
asciilifeform	bare cement.	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	...	[20:49]
asciilifeform	blam ears pop	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	wait.	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	is that even legal ?	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	afaik it's "wood or lining, no third option"	[20:49]
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asciilifeform	ubiquitous, sop	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	wait.	[20:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85735 @#64; 0.00058843 = 50.449 BTC [-] {4}	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	the fucktards in north america build out of wood what they should make out of cement	[20:50]
asciilifeform	(in the locales in usa where shooting galleries are even a thing)	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	AND THEN make out of cement the one thing you must make out of wood ?	[20:50]
asciilifeform	also it is not uncommon for visitors to stand so close, they elbow one another	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	by now you're really better off with some cans out in the field.	[20:51]
asciilifeform	those who have a field nearby - do only this!	[20:51]
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asciilifeform	indoor galleries are for city folk	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	well, it's hard to improve your aim with the cans. proper ranges have electronic measures	[20:52]
asciilifeform	cans have analogue 'measure' (falls down or not)	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	ya but...	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	how do you go from 99 to 99.9	[20:52]
asciilifeform	there are also 'fancy' targets that jump up and down when hit	[20:52]
asciilifeform	folks with outdoor space often use those.	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	but not really arbitrarily small ? also not convenient to keep moving sizes of items	[20:53]
asciilifeform	http://www.rivercottagetables.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Target3.12893624_std.jpg << example	[20:53]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JS2W9W )	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	check out the shooting caltrop	[20:53]
asciilifeform	aha, bestseller	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	i suppose another way would be to cut holes in cardboard and shoot through the hole.	[20:54]
asciilifeform	http://g01.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1VYB0FVXXXXccXpXXq6xXFXXXN/200673464/HTB1VYB0FVXXXXccXpXXq6xXFXXXN.jpg << another common variant	[20:54]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JS30qk )	[20:54]
asciilifeform	gongs	[20:54]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229675 << complicated. scheme is an example of a 'suckless movement' that didn't catch on. that is, 'throw out all the legacy crud', but after that the thing has to be inhabited. if not inhabited, then dies young, while leaving, yes, beautiful corpse	[20:59]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 23:30:34; trinque: whereas CL appears to value completeness, scheme heads for the minimal set of primitives from which higher functionality can be derived	[20:59]
asciilifeform	this was mostly understood by the enthusiasts around a decade ago, but some of the response was also pathological: 'let's bolt on a huge turd of a standard library'	[21:00]
asciilifeform	which the 'official committee' did	[21:00]
asciilifeform	landing in a kind of 'worst of both worlds' valley	[21:00]
asciilifeform	scheme remains 1) a very clean scripting language to embed in another proggy 2) a very spiffy starting point for a future lisp (including hardware)	[21:01]
asciilifeform	and 3) great student exercise, where the kids won't demand to hear why both 'elt' and 'nth' exist (perennial retardation example from cl, which was born in a 'no vendor left behind' multi-turdculturist compromise)	[21:02]
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asciilifeform	the original scheme ~standard~ is <50 pages.	[21:03]
asciilifeform	of reasonably large text.	[21:03]
asciilifeform	a ~reasonable~ scheme is about 1000 lines of c.	[21:03]
asciilifeform	(half of this if you're willing to forgo informative error handling, and some of the more difficult features like 'call/cc')	[21:03]
asciilifeform	https://github.com/catseye/minischeme << well-known example.	[21:05]
assbot	catseye/minischeme · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JS42CI )	[21:05]
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asciilifeform	scheme 'fits in head.'	[21:07]
asciilifeform	https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html << device for fitting it into a head	[21:07]
assbot	Structure and Interpretation	[21:07]
asciilifeform	... of computer programz.	[21:07]
asciilifeform	^ mega-b00k	[21:08]
asciilifeform	phun phakt: when it appeared, american schools began to use it as a mandatory undergrad textbook. and you can measure precisely when each school turned full-bore retard by ~when they stopped~	[21:08]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#920453 << that sussman	[21:09]
assbot	Logged on 13-11-2014 23:07:45; mircea_popescu: At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.	[21:09]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097906 << see also.	[21:09]
assbot	Logged on 12-04-2015 02:22:02; asciilifeform: re: the mit thing:	[21:09]
asciilifeform	mit (the home of sussman and the original arena for this) officially became irredeemably doomed in my eyes when they stopped.	[21:10]
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asciilifeform	the book (lovingly referred to as sicp, 'sick pee') is a textbook illustration of precisely what i mean when i say 'fits in head'.	[21:10]
asciilifeform	(describes not scheme per se, but walks the student through implementing scheme in scheme, and then implementing a detailed simulator for a machine which is the intrinsic minimum for executing scheme.)	[21:11]
asciilifeform	the subject swallows own arse, and either disappears in a flash of gamma rays, or becomes an adult computerist	[21:12]
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nubbins`	hi	[21:16]
asciilifeform	hi nubbins`	[21:16]
nubbins`	what's new?	[21:17]
asciilifeform	not much	[21:17]
asciilifeform	but it's all in the logz.	[21:17]
nubbins`	no kidding, hey.	[21:17]
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nubbins`	i designed some posters this week: http://imgur.com/a/QhwUN	[21:19]
assbot	Shed Island 2015 Posters - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1gketTz )	[21:19]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229626 << at -ev? thing is, nobody ever invented 'reasonably priced electronics sold to sane people.' that is, no one has ever demonstrated the economic feasibility of this. the only kinds of computer sold in perhaps 25 years were: a) sold to chumps buying forced 'pr0gr3ssss' and b) so expensive everyone shits his pants	[21:23]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 22:54:22; mircea_popescu: i'll take over the us fed and run it from right here, and if there's nobody else i'll take over fucking china silicon and run it from right here too. what in the ever loving fuck.	[21:23]
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asciilifeform	see also the old thread re: how no one ever, to date, non-fraudulently financed the production of a bitcoin miner.	[21:24]
asciilifeform	if mircea_popescu suddenly feels like commissioning the production of an ic from own personal lunch money, who am i to discourage	[21:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4721 @#64; 0.00058309 = 2.7528 BTC [-]	[21:25]
asciilifeform	but this is very different from how the computer on everyone's desk was built	[21:26]
asciilifeform	and if attempted with any kind of scale, will make plutonium look cheap and plentiful in comparison.	[21:27]
asciilifeform	summary: nobody knows how to make selling computers +ev without the millions-of-planktonous-idiots market being involved somehow	[21:27]
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nubbins`	hm, asicminer fraudulently produced ASIC production?	[21:28]
*	nubbins` wanders off in search of thread	[21:28]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: by fronting	[21:28]
asciilifeform	and front-mining.	[21:28]
nubbins`	o, right	[21:28]
asciilifeform	afaik all without exception miner vendors did this.	[21:28]
asciilifeform	heavily.	[21:28]
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nubbins`	recall Avalons showing up w/ mining pool info left in config files etc	[21:29]
asciilifeform	no one even tried to hide.	[21:29]
nubbins`	why would you? everyone who bothered to think knew	[21:29]
nubbins`	everyone who just saw $$$ stopped thinking	[21:29]
asciilifeform	the perpetrators were convinced that the chumps were convinced that there is simply no other way.	[21:30]
asciilifeform	(and who am i to contend that they were wrong?)	[21:30]
nubbins`	^ you buy a butchered pig, the farmer's keeping your tenderloin tips.	[21:30]
asciilifeform	production of ic is an ~intensely, ruinously~ expensive affair, quite on par with space flight	[21:30]
asciilifeform	very few folks seem to understand the full depth of this	[21:31]
nubbins`	am i incorrect in that AM etc early models essentially just baked an FPGA design?	[21:31]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: afaik they STILL do	[21:31]
asciilifeform	!s hardcopy fpga	[21:31]
assbot	4 results for 'hardcopy fpga' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hardcopy+fpga	[21:31]
nubbins`	ah, heh.	[21:31]
nubbins`	yeah, sure	[21:31]
asciilifeform	just to add to the already forming lsd trip in this thread: i'm not personally convinced that ic production HAS EVER BEEN +EV	[21:32]
nubbins`	o.O	[21:32]
asciilifeform	it is conceivable the the entire ic age has been fueled by a continuously-rolling 'jam tomorrow' bezzle	[21:32]
nubbins`	you gotta qualify that w/ scale or smth	[21:32]
asciilifeform	ussr, for instance, just about broke its back producing ic (and cloned computers of various descriptions.) it is not clear that these paid for themselves, regardless of how you measure economic	[21:33]
asciilifeform	in fact, they... well.	[21:33]
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nubbins`	TBH i think stuff like VLSI is only kept going because everyone involved is afraid the machines won't start up again if they stop	[21:34]
asciilifeform	something can well be ubiquitous, fun to have around, considered a basic element of civilization - and ultimately be -EV.	[21:34]
asciilifeform	sitting on the 'expense' side of the ledger for running civilization.	[21:34]
nubbins`	like parties, for example.	[21:34]
asciilifeform	all good and well, we all want toilets, condoms, cpus.	[21:34]
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asciilifeform	but too much of this and - broke.	[21:34]
asciilifeform	and 'why did we collapse'	[21:35]
nubbins`	ooh, is it because we drowned in plastic and trademarked seeds?	[21:35]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-08-2015#1223740 << see also.	[21:35]
assbot	Logged on 04-08-2015 04:05:11; asciilifeform: 'the gods of the copybook headings' (tm) (r) (kipling!)	[21:35]
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nubbins`	and then i found myself in a spiral of photolitho articles.	[21:40]
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*	nubbins` drools, imagines machinery	[21:40]
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funkenstein_	I just bought: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs - 2nd Edition (MIT Electrical Engineering and Computer Science)	[21:42]
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funkenstein_	Gresham's law of computing: bad codez drives out good, when both accepted by noobz	[21:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81300 @#64; 0.00058716 = 47.7361 BTC [+] {4}	[21:46]
nubbins`	was gonna argue but realized i misread	[21:46]
nubbins`	+1	[21:46]
trinque	asciilifeform: how bout I show you what I've produced tomorrow re: self-replicating gentoo and get your feedback?	[21:46]
trinque	idea is the same thing on the stick ends up on the computer, then the computer's equipped to repeat	[21:47]
trinque	I am to the point where a bootable root.img is repeatably produced	[21:47]
nubbins`	lel.	[21:49]
nubbins`	https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/23/call-off-the-bee-pocalypse-u-s-honeybee-colonies-hit-a-20-year-high/	[21:49]
assbot	Call off the bee-pocalypse: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1KVYqZK )	[21:49]
nubbins`	from log	[21:49]
nubbins`	"call off the police: law-abiding citizen count higher than ever"	[21:50]
nubbins`	o hey, friend of mine designed an album cover for an astronaut.	[21:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99860 @#64; 0.00058083 = 58.0017 BTC [-] {5}	[21:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57450 @#64; 0.00057882 = 33.2532 BTC [-]	[21:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60650 @#64; 0.00057808 = 35.0606 BTC [-] {3}	[22:05]
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asciilifeform	trinque: aha	[22:18]
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asciilifeform	re: ic thread: whole thing is kinda coming together in my skull. quite likely ~^^this^^~ is why it is impossible to borrow money to fund a computer-related anything, without a convincing plan to somehow pass the bezzle to a greater chump	[22:19]
asciilifeform	~this~ is why just about every large ic maker in history has either gone broke or become a quasi-governmental entity	[22:20]
asciilifeform	note that 'people want computerz' is not enough for the industry to be +ev	[22:20]
asciilifeform	i.e., people want dildoes. yes.	[22:21]
asciilifeform	but what if a dildo intrinsically cost more to make, energy/resource-wise, than the user could ever hope to repay ?	[22:21]
asciilifeform	it'd be rather like spacewalks	[22:21]
asciilifeform	so it is not enough for there to be a market of want-ers. they also gotta be pay-ers	[22:21]
asciilifeform	but if the treat is delicious enough, and bezzlatronics invented, the non-pay-er want-ers easily turn into borrowers.	[22:22]
nubbins`	When asked, hypothetically, how he would pay for complicated life-saving surgery for a loved one, Polk seemed uncertain. "That's a lot of vegetables, isn't it?" he said.	[22:22]
asciilifeform	^	[22:23]
nubbins`	(from http://www.theonion.com/article/us-economy-grinds-to-halt-as-nation-realizes-money-2912)	[22:23]
assbot	404 - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkmKXQ )	[22:23]
nubbins`	whoops, guess that broke assbot's url handler	[22:23]
nubbins`	(from http://www.theonion.com/article/us-economy-grinds-to-halt-as-nation-realizes-money-2912 )	[22:23]
assbot	U.S. Economy Grinds To Halt As Nation Realizes Money Just A Symbolic, Mutually Shared Illusion - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkmM1K )	[22:23]
asciilifeform	practical outgrowth of this hypothesis is that, if it is true, quite likely that most of the cpu that will EVER be produced, have been produced.	[22:23]
nubbins`	peak silicon!	[22:24]
asciilifeform	ditto anything else which requires vlsi	[22:24]
asciilifeform	http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2010/02/industrys-parting-gifts.html << quite obligatory.	[22:24]
assbot	ClubOrlov: Industry's Parting Gifts ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkmVSV )	[22:24]
asciilifeform	'This, then, should be the new main thrust of industrial activity: to manufacture and distribute products with the understanding that this process will run out of resources and stop. These products must be designed to outlive the process by which they are made, by as long as possible.'	[22:25]
asciilifeform	orlov does conflate several unrelated phenomena (in particular, zooming into resource exhaustion to the exclusion of just about all other aspects of problem)	[22:25]
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nubbins`	good enough to keep me going until it's time to head out	[22:26]
asciilifeform	the basic problem with -ev is not that eventually you run out of shitanium and unobtainium (though you will) but that you will be getting poorer, monotonically, and not realize precisely why	[22:27]
asciilifeform	and then run up other 'debts'	[22:27]
asciilifeform	in a vain attempt to avoid being ground into mud	[22:27]
asciilifeform	to bring back to concretes, ussr could have done something else with the manpower they sank into cloning pdp, z80	[22:28]
asciilifeform	and churning out those things	[22:28]
nubbins`	but what!	[22:29]
asciilifeform	not a question for me	[22:29]
asciilifeform	ask the folks in the alt-universe where vlsi didn't happen	[22:30]
asciilifeform	perhaps biological strange of some kind	[22:30]
asciilifeform	perhaps herbert's 'mentats', l0l	[22:30]
mod6	I'm gonna re-tackle the rotor build tomorrow btw.	[22:31]
asciilifeform	mod6: neato!	[22:31]
mod6	Been bogged down with fiat job manditory overtime bs.	[22:31]
asciilifeform	i am now looking for the mircea_popescu article where he hypothesized that 'bezzle' is, without exception, born out of people doing things that are -ev on the large scale - in just the same way as elements heavier than iron are born in supernova	[22:34]
nubbins`	heh	[22:34]
nubbins`	dem mentats!	[22:34]
asciilifeform	if anyone has the link (or if i hallucinated this existing) please say.	[22:34]
*	nubbins` applauds softly	[22:34]
asciilifeform	just to work out example on a napkin. say you, a king, want a pyramid built. could a) conscript ten thousand folks to work to death building it b) debase the currency and hire builders	[22:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 238450 @#64; 0.00056928 = 135.7448 BTC [-] {9}	[22:35]
asciilifeform	i contend that (b) necessarily involves the same amount of enslavement as (a)	[22:36]
asciilifeform	just distributed another way.	[22:36]
asciilifeform	the thing that makes the pyramid a pyramid, at least in a schoolbook example, is that it is not something anyone (but the king) actually ~wants~ that much	[22:37]
asciilifeform	while being costly	[22:37]
*	asciilifeform is roughly aware that the story of actual egyptian pyramids was rather more complicated	[22:37]
asciilifeform	anyway this thread really cannot go anywhere without a mircea_popescu, so i will leave it here.	[22:38]
nubbins`	heh	[22:39]
nubbins`	the pyramid builders had one more thing going for them	[22:39]
nubbins`	and it's the same thing that the church builders had going for them	[22:39]
asciilifeform	could be done 'on installment plan', aha.	[22:40]
nubbins`	altho the church builders were generally more free to fuck off and do something else	[22:40]
asciilifeform	function of above.	[22:40]
asciilifeform	didn't really have a 'takeoff velocity'	[22:40]
nubbins`	nah, what i was going at is that people wanted to do it for free	[22:40]
nubbins`	but, this is now a relic of the past	[22:40]
nubbins`	no stonemasons work for the good of their community any longer	[22:40]
asciilifeform	find me a fella willing to wear a gas suit and wash si in HF all day, every day, 'for the good of' something-or-other.	[22:41]
nubbins`	not in 1st world anyway. when i was in the sacred valley of peru, right in the middle of a 7 hour hike i came across a bunch of guys building a church outta mud bricks	[22:41]
asciilifeform	mud bricks - can have.	[22:41]
asciilifeform	space launch, si fab - no.	[22:41]
*	menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[22:41]
nubbins`	asciilifeform the fact that the si and hf exists means the guy's probably not as much of a fuckin rube as the dude who built the church his grandfather was married in	[22:42]
nubbins`	there's tricks you can still pull and tricks you can't	[22:42]
nubbins`	salvation is on its way out as a motivator	[22:42]
asciilifeform	long ago.	[22:42]
nubbins`	science sort of drives it out	[22:42]
asciilifeform	http://orwell.ru/library/articles/notes/english/e_notew << see also.	[22:43]
assbot	George Orwell: Notes on the Way ... ( http://bit.ly/1gkpEMc )	[22:43]
nubbins`	this intro sold me on the rest of it	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	and on the light front, http://36.media.tumblr.com/82e04f73b678c13af881ca4eea36f11d/tumblr_nbjghbxS3F1tve9e7o1_1280.jpg	[22:45]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1W72p8Z )	[22:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68212 @#64; 0.0006019 = 41.0568 BTC [+] {5}	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the "not inhabited" part holds its own mystery. did it provide an edge to users ? then, how come not used - is it the current castration of "thinking" folk that prevented them from deplyoing it ? something else ?	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	if not advantage, why is it even here.	[22:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 174188 @#64; 0.00061043 = 106.3296 BTC [+] {6}	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	not that the presence of "official committees" isn't a sign that the thing's dead/dying.	[22:48]
nubbins`	oh, city workers knocked on my door the other day requesting entry for "propertyassessment"	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	da fuck is that.	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	the soviet thing ?	[22:50]
nubbins`	it's where they count your bathrooms and look at your basement and make sure they're charging you enough property tax	[22:50]
nubbins`	and the homeowner tells you to fuck off	[22:51]
*	King_Rex has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	you should charge.	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	"guided tour, naked - $50. add $1000 per oz of clothes. shoes $500 flat fee."	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	"pictures - you take, $10 each ; of you - free"	[22:52]
nubbins`	heh	[22:52]
nubbins`	actually it's the other way around	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	orly.	[22:52]
nubbins`	you don't let em in, they're forced to do their assessment from the street	[22:52]
nubbins`	and you waive the right to appeal o.O	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229626 << at -ev? << the concept of ev does not apply in that context.	[22:53]
assbot	Logged on 07-08-2015 22:54:22; mircea_popescu: i'll take over the us fed and run it from right here, and if there's nobody else i'll take over fucking china silicon and run it from right here too. what in the ever loving fuck.	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` no such thing. you can't waive by refusal.	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	"by sucking my cock you waive your right to complain about its girth" < formally valid law.	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	"by refusing to suck my cock you waive your right to fart" < formally invalid.	[22:54]
nubbins`	"by making us guess whether you have a basement apartment, you waive your right to claim that you don't"	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	nope.	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	you don't claim "that you don't".	[22:55]
nubbins`	"by refusing the breathalyzer, you waive the right to claim you're sober"	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	and this "you made me do" bs is for tired mothers.	[22:55]
*	nubbins` shrugs	[22:55]
nubbins`	listen, i don't disagree	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	except no, you don't.	[22:55]
nubbins`	but am i gonna spend a year in court arguing it?	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	if they lose they pay, right ?	[22:55]
nubbins`	meantime, i have paper to cut, feet to rest on coffee tables...	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	which means, i'll spend fifty, because hey, it keeps one or more lawyers owing me for the bread i provided them	[22:56]
nubbins`	the process of making them lose is itself an unreasonable burden	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	depends. if it is the place sucks.	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	generally it's quite lucrative.	[22:56]
nubbins`	i have neither the means nor the will	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	you need like a patron over there.	[22:57]
nubbins`	and not just of the arts, either	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, one could prolly make a killing in the north america this way. just - offer patronage to the various people who got paper to cut.	[22:57]
nubbins`	too many electric cutters	[22:57]
nubbins`	we're more of a quality over quantity sort of shop	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	aha	[22:58]
nubbins`	i do have a lovely plough, cca 14th century tech, that can trim a phone book cleaner than the phone book factory does	[22:59]
nubbins`	cuts so clean you could shave in 'em.	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	but not cheaper.	[22:59]
nubbins`	goodness no.	[23:00]
nubbins`	this isn't always the metric tho	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	i have a dog that can slobber better than any race horse :D	[23:00]
*	nubbins` points to client who paid $1ea for business cards, printed and trimmed by hand, because digital offset shop w/ electronic die cutter did such a shitty job o.O	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	aaanyway, im done ruining your fun, bbl.	[23:01]
nubbins`	wait, i was having fun? :D	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	hehe	[23:01]
nubbins`	http://www.louet.nl/en/bookbinding-vertical-plough	[23:03]
assbot	Louët :: Vertical Plough ... ( http://bit.ly/1W7412z )	[23:03]
nubbins`	^ my beast	[23:03]
nubbins`	~$700usd plus s&h	[23:03]
nubbins`	add a spare blade, i think i dropped close to a thou on that fucking thing	[23:04]
nubbins`	anyway i should go listen to music and inhale drug smoke	[23:06]
nubbins`	peace	[23:06]
*	moneycat has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)	[23:07]
*	nubbins` has quit (Quit: Quit)	[23:21]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229917 << a unified standard library never formed. a few implementation-specific fairly complete libraries - did, but the kind of folks attracted to scheme all turned nose at them (incl. me) - 'ewww, not orthogonal, not beautiful, not scheme at all' -- them (and me)	[23:50]
assbot	Logged on 08-08-2015 01:47:47; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "not inhabited" part holds its own mystery. did it provide an edge to users ? then, how come not used - is it the current castration of "thinking" folk that prevented them from deplyoing it ? something else ?	[23:50]
asciilifeform	hence naggum pissing on scheme as a 'pedo' language that is only loved by folks who like the embryonic stage of things when they have no wrinkles (by his lights)	[23:50]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229939 << speaking of naggum, recall that this is how he was taxed to death	[23:52]
assbot	Logged on 08-08-2015 01:54:53; nubbins`: "by making us guess whether you have a basement apartment, you waive your right to claim that you don't"	[23:52]
asciilifeform	(literally)	[23:52]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229957 << orlov's mafia development stage. this is available ~right now~ just as in 1880 cosa nostra. BUT they use an ethnic filter to keep out usg. (the only filter known to work semi-reliably, sadly)	[23:53]
assbot	Logged on 08-08-2015 01:57:42; mircea_popescu: incidentally, one could prolly make a killing in the north america this way. just - offer patronage to the various people who got paper to cut.	[23:53]
asciilifeform	so nubbins` or asciilifeform cannot play	[23:53]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229934 << nobody cancelled thermodynamics. the concept ultimately applies - to various degrees - to anything one might do.	[23:56]
assbot	Logged on 08-08-2015 01:53:19; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229626 << at -ev? << the concept of ev does not apply in that context.	[23:56]
asciilifeform	meaning, roughly, whether one can carry on doing it without borrowing/stealing something from somewhere outside the system under consideration	[23:56]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229811 << in the movie 'Interstellar', the 'space race' is taught to children as a thing the us used to bankrupt the ussr, and rocket jockeys are villified	[23:56]
assbot	Logged on 08-08-2015 00:33:42; asciilifeform: ussr, for instance, just about broke its back producing ic (and cloned computers of various descriptions.) it is not clear that these paid for themselves, regardless of how you measure economic	[23:56]
asciilifeform	^ not far from fact	[23:57]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229941 << similar system in usa. if you don't 'file tax', not only is there a fine levied, but the tax charged will be based on what usg 'thinks' you could have earned that year.	[23:58]
assbot	Logged on 08-08-2015 01:55:11; mircea_popescu: you don't claim "that you don't".	[23:59]

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