Forum logs for 07 Aug 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/small-dick-issues.txt that was pretty lulzy	[00:04]
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asciilifeform	BingoBoingo surprised loper lacks adbox considering it competes with trilema as most read << wait wat. what'd be the point	[00:11]
asciilifeform	so i get a penny now and then, and in exchange... site with ads.	[00:11]
fluffypony	oh well at least DC's upcoming film schedule has been leaked: http://iwatchstuff.com/2014/08/batman-v-superman-moved-up-more-than-a-m.php	[00:11]
assbot	'Batman v. Superman' Moved Up More Than a Month as Warner Bros. Plots Their Superhero Schedule to 2020 \| I Watch Stuff	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ironically, it's like 10 bux a day till the end of the month.	[00:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: unless i misunderstand - people have to actually click the ads	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	nope.	[00:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: wait. what kind of ad is this again?	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-08-2014#785060	[00:18]
assbot	#bitcoin-assets log	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform van ads, ben_vulpes' new thing.	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/the-twinheaded-announcer-announces/ < 1st item in there.	[00:18]
assbot	The twinheaded announcer announces! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[00:19]
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chetty	http://news.yahoo.com/faced-western-sanctions-moscow-resorts-food-fight-094323814.html;_ylt=AwrBJSDhXOJTUgMA8lnQtDMD	[00:25]
assbot	Faced with Western sanctions, Moscow resorts to food fight - Yahoo News	[00:25]
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mircea_popescu	in the end they'll prolly just move to rubber chicken	[00:34]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36216 @ 0.00091683 = 33.2039 BTC [+] {2}	[00:47]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 939 @ 0.00203971 = 1.9153 BTC [-] {2}	[01:16]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 10 bux a day till the end of the month << wait - that's money?	[02:02]
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BingoBoingo	A project to create a completely open-source SoC is... hiring ? isn't this just a little odd, where'd a coupla hobbists get teh funding ? o, snap. not that kind of open source, is it. << Seems like it prolly is that kind	[02:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00091959 = 7.3567 BTC [+]	[02:27]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 80 @ 0.01455094 = 1.1641 BTC [-] {4}	[02:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20647 @ 0.00091976 = 18.9903 BTC [+] {2}	[02:45]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well now that all depends.	[02:50]
BingoBoingo	http://www.gomerblog.com/2014/08/disability/	[03:06]
assbot	Archeologists Discover Ancient Disability Papyrus \| Medical Satire - GomerBlog	[03:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12221 @ 0.00092067 = 11.2515 BTC [+]	[03:10]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8029 @ 0.000919 = 7.3787 BTC [-]	[03:11]
BingoBoingo	%d	[03:11]
atcbot	[ATC Diff] Current Diff: 687182.56 Est. Next Diff: 421615.51 in 132 blocks (#42336) Est. % Change: -38.65	[03:11]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[03:11]
gribble	Current Blocks: 314314 \| Current Difficulty: 1.8736441558310238E10 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 314495 \| Next Difficulty In: 181 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 2 hours, 29 minutes, and 16 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 19657076858.2 \| Estimated Percent Change: 4.91361	[03:11]
BingoBoingo	http://www.wistatefair.com/wp/Food-Category/foods-on-a-stick/	[03:14]
assbot	Foods On-a-Stick \| Food Categories \| Wisconsin State Fair	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	here's one for you vexual : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs_-emj1qR4	[03:14]
assbot	Serenading the cattle with my trombone - YouTube	[03:14]
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kakobrekla	who is in uk and wants to do me a favor	[03:18]
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BingoBoingo	http://fittish.deadspin.com/is-booze-a-performance-enhancing-substance-for-ultrarun-1615790870/+rohan954	[03:25]
assbot	Is Booze A Performance-Enhancing Substance For Ultrarunners?	[03:25]
[]bot	Bet placed: 5 BTC for Yes on "Tesla stock to close at over $250 in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/955/ Odds: 87(Y):13(N) by coin, 86(Y):14(N) by weight. Total bet: 14.51494688 BTC. Current weight: 74,455.	[03:34]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00091916 = 22.5194 BTC [+] {2}	[03:47]
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mircea_popescu	kakobrekla call moeity.	[04:00]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27450 @ 0.00092479 = 25.3855 BTC [+] {3}	[04:28]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: well now that all depends << chinese peasant could live on 10 usd / d. but does 'van' list any chinese peasants among its ad space providers ?	[04:38]
asciilifeform	also brings to mind another topic that never quite comes up - that 'cost of living' is not really a complete picture of things	[04:40]
asciilifeform	in that 'man does not live by bread alone'	[04:41]
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asciilifeform	e.g. an 'amd opteron' wouldn't cost any less than what we pay for it here, wherever else on the planet you might go	[04:41]
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kakobrekla	she is in Scotland or something?	[04:47]
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kakobrekla	yeah, scotland would techically work i think but england would be better.	[04:57]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43722 @ 0.00092657 = 40.5115 BTC [+]	[05:02]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well sure. meanwhile 9x% of all internet websites do not make 10 bux a day	[05:07]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the 'bug zapper' on my balcony doesn't bring in 10 bux a day either. only bug parts. and yet i'm happy with it.	[05:09]
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mircea_popescu	i can see teh argument.	[05:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 14999 @ 0.00005154 = 0.773 BTC [-] {7}	[05:12]
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decimation	asciilifeform: do you think the bug zapper does more than murder poor moths?	[05:26]
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mircea_popescu	!up btc111	[05:27]
-assbot-	You voiced btc111 for 30 minutes.	[05:27]
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asciilifeform	decimation: gets whatever flies through the mesh screens	[05:27]
decimation	I thought studies showed that they were terrible at selecting mosquitos	[05:27]
asciilifeform	terrible but not entirely useless	[05:27]
decimation	dc is a swamp though, so I'm sure you will collect a variety of fauna	[05:28]
asciilifeform	the meshes are pretty good at selecting mosquitoes.	[05:28]
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BingoBoingo	!up thestringpuller	[05:46]
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thestringpuller	http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2ct8wy/whats_one_sentence_you_could_say_to_piss_off_an/cjixhx1	[05:46]
assbot	romantomet comments on What's one sentence you could say to piss off an entire fan base?	[05:46]
mircea_popescu	"an entire fanbase" ? what's that ?	[05:48]
mircea_popescu	"I think Nine Inch Nail's cover of Johnny Cash's "Hurt" was better than the original."	[05:50]
mircea_popescu	ahahah ok good one	[05:50]
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decimation	!up thestringpuller	[06:01]
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mircea_popescu	;;seen dreadknight	[06:10]
gribble	dreadknight was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 days, 19 hours, and 31 seconds ago: that's not how you play frogger	[06:10]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell dreadknight ever played solforge ?	[06:10]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[06:10]
Vexual	famous last words	[06:10]
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Vexual	ohey mp, did you sign up for lawschool yet?	[06:13]
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mircea_popescu	takes a while neh ?	[06:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00092543 = 19.6191 BTC [-]	[06:17]
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mircea_popescu	!up jadne_	[06:17]
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-assbot-	You voiced jadne_ for 30 minutes.	[06:17]
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Vexual	depends how long you stay i guess	[06:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5535 @ 0.000919 = 5.0867 BTC [-]	[06:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31138 @ 0.0009178 = 28.5785 BTC [-]	[06:20]
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Vexual	i dunno, one might ace the poop outta one sememster and let a good load of stuff done	[06:21]
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RebeccaBitcoin	Hey	[06:22]
RebeccaBitcoin	I have an entropy question	[06:23]
ben_vulpes	oooh	[06:23]
ben_vulpes	these are always fun	[06:23]
RebeccaBitcoin	oooh indeed	[06:23]
RebeccaBitcoin	is this site safe: rushwallet.com	[06:24]
RebeccaBitcoin	to make a instant web based wallet you move your mouse around	[06:24]
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RebeccaBitcoin	a few seconds later, tada you have a wallet	[06:24]
RebeccaBitcoin	is that mouse movement sae	[06:24]
RebeccaBitcoin	safe	[06:24]
RebeccaBitcoin	as a method of generating entropy or whatever	[06:24]
ben_vulpes	nah.	[06:25]
Vexual	i use my left hand	[06:25]
RebeccaBitcoin	thank you for that elaborate answer	[06:26]
RebeccaBitcoin	"nah"	[06:26]
ben_vulpes	i wonder if its trivially bruteforceable	[06:26]
ben_vulpes	RebeccaBitcoin: thou shalt not mix js and crypto, much less js and entropy.	[06:26]
RebeccaBitcoin	k, but why isn't this safe	[06:27]
RebeccaBitcoin	and if it isn't, how would you hack it	[06:27]
fluffypony	I don't think the mouse movey thing is any worse than the the way /dev/urandom collects entropy from mouse movements / keyboard entry	[06:27]
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fluffypony	from an entropy perspective it's a perfectly viable aspect	[06:27]
RebeccaBitcoin	btw, this is owned by Kryptokit (ie Anthony) and his crew	[06:27]
fluffypony	as ben_vulpes points out there are other issues	[06:27]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: is your aim to have a Bitcoin wallet so you can send and receive Bitcoin, or is your aim to write a scathing review?	[06:28]
ben_vulpes	i mean it said "okay!" after a hilariously short period of time.	[06:28]
ben_vulpes	tengo mucho sospechosa	[06:28]
Vexual	up down left, yeah got it	[06:28]
ben_vulpes	up up down down right a b bitcoin!	[06:28]
fluffypony	ben_vulpes: I guess it's using the normal random available to JS and sprucing it up	[06:28]
ben_vulpes	but is it ====== random?	[06:29]
fluffypony	by some definition of "random"	[06:29]
fluffypony	as in: "omg, Ben's so random, lol"	[06:29]
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RebeccaBitcoin	ok, change my question	[06:29]
RebeccaBitcoin	is it safe	[06:29]
ben_vulpes	hell no	[06:30]
fluffypony	no	[06:30]
ben_vulpes	thou shalt not etc	[06:30]
RebeccaBitcoin	like if I put 10 bitcoins in here	[06:30]
RebeccaBitcoin	for fun	[06:30]
fluffypony	definitely not	[06:30]
RebeccaBitcoin	would they get stolen	[06:30]
fluffypony	within what time frame	[06:30]
ben_vulpes	;;8ball RebeccaBitcoin ^^	[06:30]
gribble	What are you asking me for?	[06:30]
RebeccaBitcoin	by safe I don't mean nerd safe	[06:30]
ben_vulpes	;;8ball RebeccaBitcoin ^^	[06:30]
gribble	Come again?	[06:30]
ben_vulpes	;;8ball will the coins get stolen?	[06:30]
gribble	The outlook is hazy, please ask again later.	[06:30]
RebeccaBitcoin	I mean like reasonably safe	[06:30]
fluffypony	;;8ball will RebeccaBitcoin's coins get stolen?	[06:30]
gribble	The outlook is good.	[06:30]
RebeccaBitcoin	thank you gribble	[06:30]
fluffypony	well there you go	[06:30]
ben_vulpes	for the bruteforcers...	[06:30]
RebeccaBitcoin	nerd safe vs reasonably safe	[06:30]
Vexual	lol ben	[06:31]
ben_vulpes	meaningless distinction.	[06:31]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: it's not even reasonably safe, given the track record of web wallets	[06:31]
RebeccaBitcoin	so nerd safe = the type of people who print a paper wallet then toss the printer over niagara fallls	[06:31]
fluffypony	nah	[06:31]
ben_vulpes	no. it's a meaningless distinction.	[06:31]
fluffypony	I'm a nerd, I use Electrum	[06:31]
fluffypony	and it's safe by my standards	[06:31]
peterl	is it a risk to advertise which type of wallet you use?	[06:31]
fluffypony	peterl: nope	[06:32]
Vexual	yes	[06:32]
RebeccaBitcoin	its not a meaningless distinction. Someone told me yesterday that to make a paper wallet I should use a new laptpo, and a new printer, then I should take both and destroy them. Then I should put both in a fire	[06:32]
RebeccaBitcoin	like wtf	[06:32]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: those people are crazy	[06:32]
RebeccaBitcoin	yah	[06:32]
fluffypony	there's a middle ground between paranoid and convenient	[06:32]
RebeccaBitcoin	so thats my distinction between reasonably safe and nerd safe	[06:32]
fluffypony	a web wallet is not that middle ground	[06:32]
RebeccaBitcoin	to the earlier question, no, I'm not going to write a scathing review	[06:32]
fluffypony	middle ground is anything where you are entirely, solely, and completely responsible for the safety of your funds	[06:33]
fluffypony	not some third party	[06:33]
RebeccaBitcoin	apparently this is open source	[06:33]
RebeccaBitcoin	and its made by kryptokit	[06:33]
RebeccaBitcoin	which is also open source	[06:33]
RebeccaBitcoin	and you can run it offline	[06:33]
RebeccaBitcoin	my concern is that the mouse movey thing for like 5 seconds isn't all that secure	[06:34]
RebeccaBitcoin	someone else pointed out that there are other issues	[06:34]
ben_vulpes	we're trying to tell you that it ain't secure at all., honey.	[06:34]
RebeccaBitcoin	Ok good.	[06:34]
RebeccaBitcoin	can that be demonstrated	[06:34]
ben_vulpes	who are you again?	[06:34]
mircea_popescu	heya RebeccaBitcoin	[06:34]
RebeccaBitcoin	ah good	[06:34]
RebeccaBitcoin	Mircea is here	[06:34]
RebeccaBitcoin	I was hoping for Bitcoin Pete, but you'll have to do	[06:35]
fluffypony	lol	[06:35]
mircea_popescu	cheeky joo is she.	[06:35]
RebeccaBitcoin	Jewfro > bald	[06:35]
Vexual	zing	[06:35]
mircea_popescu	only if redhaired.	[06:35]
RebeccaBitcoin	haha	[06:35]
justusranvier	mircea_popescu: Did you ping me before?	[06:36]
RebeccaBitcoin	When does Peter get off work at Burger King?	[06:36]
cazalla	what's this prejudice against bald folk?	[06:37]
ben_vulpes	cazalla: bad genes	[06:37]
RebeccaBitcoin	http://trilema.com/ thats mircea right?	[06:37]
assbot	Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[06:37]
RebeccaBitcoin	He's rocking a skullet	[06:37]
fluffypony	well I guess the title of the site is a giveaway	[06:37]
mircea_popescu	you wanna see jewfro, http://trilema.com/2011/fototeca-de-haur/ and scroll down	[06:38]
assbot	Fototeca de Haur pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[06:38]
RebeccaBitcoin	haha	[06:38]
mircea_popescu	justusranvier possibly but now i forget.	[06:38]
RebeccaBitcoin	anyway back to my question	[06:38]
RebeccaBitcoin	mircea	[06:38]
RebeccaBitcoin	I don't know how to do the thing that makes your name light up	[06:38]
RebeccaBitcoin	anyway	[06:38]
RebeccaBitcoin	rushwallet.com	[06:38]
RebeccaBitcoin	secure or not	[06:38]
RebeccaBitcoin	Assuming no, why?	[06:38]
fluffypony	not	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	no dude. listen better.	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	because of many reasons which you will find reading the logs	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	this has been done to death.	[06:39]
RebeccaBitcoin	This particular site has been done to death?	[06:39]
RebeccaBitcoin	really?	[06:39]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: we already told her why	[06:39]
decimation	roll dice to generate your ecdsa key :)	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	^	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	preferably made out of the bones of your enemies	[06:39]
RebeccaBitcoin	that doesn't explain why	[06:39]
decimation	perfectly level and razor sharp of course	[06:40]
RebeccaBitcoin	if I put 10 bitcoin in a wallet there	[06:40]
RebeccaBitcoin	can any of you steal it	[06:40]
mircea_popescu	(seriously tho, here's a good approach : make your dices out of ice. they will melt, yes, and not be even, yes.	[06:40]
mircea_popescu	BUT IMPREDICTABLY SO)	[06:40]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: it's not us you should be worried about.	[06:40]
peterl	does having a python script generate a bunch of random dice rolls count as rolling dice?	[06:40]
Vexual	melt roll melt roll	[06:40]
decimation	lol	[06:40]
mircea_popescu	RebeccaBitcoin you know we didn't steal any of the OTHER btc that got stolen, either.	[06:40]
RebeccaBitcoin	lol	[06:40]
mircea_popescu	this is scarcely an argument	[06:40]
decimation	somewhere your python script is calling random() or whatever	[06:40]
mircea_popescu	peterl no, and i hope that was being funny	[06:40]
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peterl	right, how random is python's random()?	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	meh-random.	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	like a layer of meh on top of urandom's meh.	[06:41]
decimation	sigh, that's not even the issue, the real issue is how random is your linux or windows or mac's random	[06:41]
decimation	which is basically as good as moving your mouse around	[06:41]
RebeccaBitcoin	argh, now this is a typical nerd debate.	[06:42]
mircea_popescu	decimation not rly. it's not great, but it still takes ethernet disks etc	[06:42]
decimation	yeah it's more than keyboard mouse I know	[06:42]
mircea_popescu	RebeccaBitcoin you know, before you can think yourself better than everyone else you must put your tits in the tit gallery.	[06:42]
RebeccaBitcoin	"If I compile the php script and then reconcile it with a mysql database, then reconfigure it to your home computer's settings I can find your brain wallet"	[06:42]
RebeccaBitcoin	@mircea asshole	[06:43]
cazalla	RebeccaBitcoin, you bought ether, correct? theft is not a concern if you're giving your bitcoins away	[06:43]
mircea_popescu	i can find your brain wallet right now. sha512sum("iamhotshit");	[06:43]
RebeccaBitcoin	Yes, I did buy some ether	[06:43]
asciilifeform	nerd safe = the type of people who print a paper wallet then toss the printer << this subject is worth exploring at length	[06:43]
decimation	rebeccabitcoin, ultimately what you are asking is "audit my security" which involves multiple levels of unkonown software	[06:43]
RebeccaBitcoin	and yes I realize I should ahve just bought it from mircea instead	[06:43]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: again - for ordinary users you simply need something that is completely under your control, and for your purposes Electrum is fine. It is small and lightweight, it doesn't download the full blockchain (about 20mb in downloads is all it needs thus far), and it has a 12 word mnemonic you write down to backup your wallet. It's literally all I need.	[06:43]
decimation	to do a proper job would require thousands of good man hours, which you can't afford	[06:43]
asciilifeform	in oil prospecting, salvage diving, etc. there is a concept where safety measures that the crew will not follow because they 'seen ridiculous' - are useless	[06:44]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: https://electrum.org	[06:44]
assbot	Electrum Bitcoin Wallet	[06:44]
fluffypony	there	[06:44]
fluffypony	problem solved.	[06:44]
asciilifeform	*seem	[06:44]
RebeccaBitcoin	I'm obviously not asking for that reason	[06:44]
RebeccaBitcoin	I'm not a retard, my cold storage is safe	[06:44]
fluffypony	Electrum isn't cold storage, it's a hot wallet to use every day	[06:44]
RebeccaBitcoin	brain wallet	[06:44]
RebeccaBitcoin	Becky's coins	[06:44]
asciilifeform	i still can't fathom what people mean when they ask 'is X safe'	[06:45]
asciilifeform	safe for what?	[06:45]
decimation	asciilifeform this is basically "don't blame the pilot" in the air-crash investigations	[06:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	Anthony Diloilorio	[06:45]
Vexual	you wouldn't discard a printer	[06:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	made kryptoikit	[06:45]
decimation	yes, you put a n00b who failed landing 101 in the cockpit, how did that happen?	[06:45]
fluffypony	asciilifeform: now you understand why those "trust seals" are so popular on websites :-P	[06:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	now he made this	[06:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	I assume not him, but his slaves	[06:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	or whatever	[06:45]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: it doesn't matter who made it	[06:46]
RebeccaBitcoin	sure it does	[06:46]
fluffypony	not really	[06:46]
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decimation	fluffypony is right, just use electrum	[06:46]
RebeccaBitcoin	Next time someone is like "omg Rebecca Rushwallet is awesome you should totally use it" - I want to be able to say "No, its not safe because blah blah blah"	[06:47]
penguirker	New blog post: http://www.bcoinnews.com/bitcoin-mining-update-081614/	[06:47]
fluffypony	you're assuming that he is impervious to stupidity or error	[06:47]
fluffypony	which is beyond unlikely	[06:47]
RebeccaBitcoin	no	[06:47]
RebeccaBitcoin	I'm ont	[06:47]
RebeccaBitcoin	not	[06:47]
*	assbot removes voice from jadne_	[06:47]
RebeccaBitcoin	Obviously you're completely misreading this. Anthony is a little dweeb.	[06:47]
decimation	rebeccabitcoin nothing that runs on a von neumann machine connected to the internet using unaudited untrusted firmware is safe	[06:47]
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mircea_popescu	safe for what? << maid safe.	[06:48]
asciilifeform	RebeccaBitcoin: seems like two separate questions in your original question. 1) mouse movement as method of generating key and 2) particular web-based gizmo for doing so	[06:48]
RebeccaBitcoin	k	[06:48]
RebeccaBitcoin	1) Is mouse movement, as used in rushwallet.com safe?	[06:48]
RebeccaBitcoin	2) If rushwallet.com safe	[06:48]
decimation	3.) does the javascript upload privkey to the server?	[06:48]
RebeccaBitcoin	Safe = If I put 10btc in a wallet and post the public key here, will it get stolen within 90 days	[06:48]
RebeccaBitcoin	apparently not	[06:48]
RebeccaBitcoin	they say open source but I can't find the source	[06:49]
asciilifeform	exercise for student (or bored person of any other species) - log a typical 'mouse wiggle' session; fit to curves (your choice.)	[06:49]
decimation	if you can't find the source of the javascript on your webpage you are in a world of hurt	[06:49]
RebeccaBitcoin	is it that easy?	[06:49]
RebeccaBitcoin	I just open safari's developer stuff and click source?	[06:49]
decimation	you can't run it if you don't have the source	[06:49]
decimation	that being said, it might be compressed/obfuscated	[06:50]
asciilifeform	RebeccaBitcoin: will it get stolen within 90 days << this is an uncommonly poor tactic (yes, popular in the 'computer insecurity' business, but it sucks still) - would you test, say, a door lock this way?	[06:50]
asciilifeform	'house not burgled in 90 days - perfect lock'	[06:50]
RebeccaBitcoin	yes	[06:51]
kakobrekla	on the other hand, locks safety is defined by how much time it takes to break it.	[06:51]
RebeccaBitcoin	exactly	[06:51]
RebeccaBitcoin	I can pick my apartment lock in approximately 5 minutes	[06:51]
kakobrekla	(not saying its not stupid!)	[06:51]
asciilifeform	but would you assume burglars will line up to try, simply by virtue of you having wished it?	[06:51]
RebeccaBitcoin	if I could pick it in 30 seconds I would concerned	[06:51]
decimation	afaik high-leve usg safes are 2 hours	[06:51]
asciilifeform	decimation: nitpick. usg-blessed safes are optimized for tamper-evidence, rather than absolute strength	[06:52]
RebeccaBitcoin	if I put money in a wallet	[06:52]
RebeccaBitcoin	give you the public key	[06:52]
asciilifeform	(one usually is more concerned that seekrit dokument isn't stolen undetected, rather than mere fact of theft)	[06:52]
RebeccaBitcoin	inform you its on rush wallet	[06:52]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: if you put 10 BTC in a wallet and posted about it on Reddit and some netsec mailing lists and gave it 90 days that would be a concrete test	[06:52]
RebeccaBitcoin	and say "Go"	[06:52]
RebeccaBitcoin	and it takes you more than 90 days to crack it, I would call it "reaosnably safe"	[06:53]
asciilifeform	RebeccaBitcoin: but why would we 'go' ?	[06:53]
decimation	I think they distinguish between overt and covert entry	[06:53]
RebeccaBitcoin	You would "go" because with 10 coins you could safely move out of your moms basement	[06:53]
asciilifeform	RebeccaBitcoin: pill against your particular system may well be worth > 10 btc.	[06:53]
decimation	http://www.fedsafes.com/frequently_asked_questions.php "Class 6 safes are used for the storage of documents, maps & drawings. They provide protection against 30 minutes of covert entry & 20 hours of surreptitious entry. Class 5 safes are used for the storage of documents, weapons, drugs, funds, sensitive materials & equipment. Class 5 safes have the same covert & surreptitious entry protection as class 6 safes but they also protect	[06:53]
decimation	against 10 minutes of forced entry."	[06:53]
assbot	Frequently Asked Questions\| Fedsafes.com	[06:53]
asciilifeform	RebeccaBitcoin: so attacker could move from mother's basement into a palace, were he to sell the attack to a higher bidder, vs. your 10 merely moves him to a new flat.	[06:54]
fluffypony	there's that too	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	and it takes you more than 90 days to crack it, I would call it "reaosnably safe" << takes about two hours, if someone could be arsed.	[06:54]
RebeccaBitcoin	really?	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	someone here could not be arsed for 10btc, and someone who could be arsed ain't here.	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	yes really.	[06:54]
Vexual	or the attacker has some benefit from showing the attack'	[06:54]
RebeccaBitcoin	you could crack rush wallet in 2 hours?	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	some derp-ass "mouse clicks" js webwallet ?	[06:55]
RebeccaBitcoin	yes	[06:55]
RebeccaBitcoin	rushwallet.com	[06:55]
mircea_popescu	it's just hashing you know. like mining/	[06:55]
RebeccaBitcoin	yes I realize that	[06:55]
RebeccaBitcoin	if you put your brilliant mind to it, how long would it take you to crack rushwallet.com	[06:55]
mircea_popescu	you seem to realise somehow halfway in the middle.	[06:55]
mircea_popescu	there';s no mind involved. asciilifeform already told you the process.	[06:55]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu is a cracker now?	[06:55]
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FabianB	RebeccaBitcoin: main concern with sites like rushwallet are probably not third-parties but the site owners themselfes, private key is in the url, readable by javascript; even if the private key is not read by current js, they can change it any second, read it, send it to their server	[06:56]
RebeccaBitcoin	noted	[06:56]
fluffypony	seriously - there are people that specialise in this that could probably do it faster than anyone here, and even we can ascertain what the threat model is	[06:56]
asciilifeform	RebeccaBitcoin: if you were to set to it, how long would it take you to build a small two-cycle petrol engine?	[06:56]
decimation	from ore?	[06:56]
Vexual	coupla days	[06:56]
RebeccaBitcoin	I'm not sure what that is	[06:56]
Vexual	yep	[06:56]
RebeccaBitcoin	my first step would be to copy and paste that to craiglist	[06:56]
RebeccaBitcoin	then hire someone	[06:57]
RebeccaBitcoin	then tada, I'm done	[06:57]
decimation	orlov is right	[06:57]
asciilifeform	RebeccaBitcoin: then you learn another useful lesson - what a professional machinist charges.	[06:57]
asciilifeform	(you'll be quite surprised.)	[06:57]
asciilifeform	(and possibly tempted to change professions)	[06:57]
RebeccaBitcoin	I'm an aspiring hacker	[06:58]
Vexual	then build it offline and run at it	[06:58]
RebeccaBitcoin	k heres my plan	[06:58]
decimation	that's assuming that you designed the parts too, he's gonna charge way more if you need design help	[06:58]
RebeccaBitcoin	take rush wallet	[06:58]
RebeccaBitcoin	put it online	[06:58]
RebeccaBitcoin	on a different domain	[06:58]
RebeccaBitcoin	use your stealy stuff that records the private key	[06:58]
RebeccaBitcoin	set up a bot to monitor the balances of the private keys	[06:59]
RebeccaBitcoin	get 29823832892389 coinz	[06:59]
RebeccaBitcoin	put those coins on mpex	[06:59]
fluffypony	ok have fun	[06:59]
fluffypony	let us know how it goes	[06:59]
RebeccaBitcoin	etc.	[06:59]
decimation	one can design black boxes with assumptions inside all day; what matters is the ability to master the details implict in all the assumptions being made	[06:59]
asciilifeform	brings to mind an ancient recipe for chicken soup (attributed to the gypsies, but accounts vary)	[07:00]
asciilifeform	1) find a chicken.	[07:00]
asciilifeform	2) ...	[07:00]
RebeccaBitcoin	So in conclusion: I should not store any coins with rush wallet, unless the amount is such that I don't mind losing them.	[07:00]
asciilifeform	1) get 29823832892389 ...	[07:00]
kakobrekla	121 ?	[07:01]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: yes	[07:01]
decimation	well, what is certainly true is that you have run the privkey generator on your own machine, using reasonably open software, you have more (not absolute) confidence that your keys are not compromised	[07:01]
ben_vulpes	RebeccaBitcoin: mind you, that amount can change rapidly based on their fiat denomination, and your lazy self might decline to move them until it's too late.	[07:02]
ben_vulpes	there's a saying	[07:02]
ben_vulpes	"anything worth doing is worth doing well".	[07:02]
decimation	absolute confidence is impossible until asciilifeform gets his room-sized fpga	[07:02]
ben_vulpes	treat your satoshis well and your integer btc will treat you well.	[07:02]
asciilifeform	decimation: nope. until you (in general sense of 'you') do...	[07:02]
decimation	heh yeah well we need to find a sufficiently rich prince	[07:03]
RebeccaBitcoin	Before this conversation got out of hand, i was mainly referring to the ability of this site to generate a random wallet. I've read before that mouse entropy is crap. While there are 2892383289 ^298289 possible private keys for Bitcoin, a wallet like this might be much more limited. As such, a system like this might only be capable of generating a	[07:03]
RebeccaBitcoin	certain number of private keys, thus making the possibliity of hashing all of the possibilities possible, then draining any accounts.	[07:03]
asciilifeform	good summary re: mouse in principle	[07:04]
ben_vulpes	RebeccaBitcoin: i wonder if its trivially bruteforceable	[07:04]
decimation	asciilifeform stated this above, more or less	[07:04]
RebeccaBitcoin	So yes, right?	[07:04]
asciilifeform	but, other fact, question of what was actually served up to you when you browse the site on a particular occasion.	[07:04]
decimation	and what your client transmits in response	[07:04]
RebeccaBitcoin	Assuming I download the source code, it seems legit, I put it on an offline computer.	[07:04]
RebeccaBitcoin	no uploading, no shady shit	[07:05]
decimation	what would be the point of an offline web wallet?	[07:05]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony im a jack of all trades	[07:05]
asciilifeform	RebeccaBitcoin: work involved in determining 'legit' is roughly equal to writing your own.	[07:05]
RebeccaBitcoin	ok	[07:05]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: *off	[07:05]
asciilifeform	larger, in most cases.	[07:05]
fluffypony	:-P	[07:05]
Vexual	^so fro	[07:05]
*	fluffypony makes joke	[07:05]
RebeccaBitcoin	Thats pretty much all I wanted to know	[07:06]
RebeccaBitcoin	thank you	[07:06]
kakobrekla	now you know its not practical to be safe.	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	omg the zingers tonight	[07:06]
mircea_popescu	absolute confidence is impossible until asciilifeform gets his room-sized fpga << but then where would he sleep ?	[07:07]
mircea_popescu	oh snap.	[07:07]
RebeccaBitcoin	haha	[07:07]
asciilifeform	novice can be considered 'graduated' and teachable, e.g. actual maths, when she stops saying 'safe' except to refer to a heavy metal box	[07:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i think she was just playing dumb.	[07:07]
decimation	not that said box is safe, either	[07:07]
*	asciilifeform kicks old safe	[07:07]
asciilifeform	klang.	[07:07]
ben_vulpes	don't hurt yourself now	[07:08]
asciilifeform	lol	[07:08]
Vexual	fuck that kick it harder	[07:08]
RebeccaBitcoin	how can I change my name to the different colours that you guys use	[07:08]
RebeccaBitcoin	Mircea isblue	[07:08]
RebeccaBitcoin	ben is an ugly yellow	[07:08]
RebeccaBitcoin	decimation is somewhat red/maroon	[07:08]
kakobrekla	he just chinese.	[07:08]
fluffypony	you can't - it's whatever IRC client you're using colouring it	[07:08]
asciilifeform	you gotta love how pcb track to solenoid driver FET is exposed under the rubber keypad	[07:08]
fluffypony	your name is poo brown to me	[07:08]
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RebeccaBitcoin	really?	[07:08]
asciilifeform	wonder if that's the case on all of these 'electric' safes.	[07:08]
ben_vulpes	RebeccaBitcoin: you gotta get a real client, for starters.	[07:08]
RebeccaBitcoin	no	[07:08]
Vexual	im getting troll pink from you rebeecca	[07:09]
RebeccaBitcoin	haha	[07:09]
Vexual	shit, im comprimised	[07:09]
decimation	http://www.fedsafes.com/X-09_locks.php << asciilifeform note USG uses electric locks... with a dial	[07:10]
assbot	X-09 Locks - GSA Approved High Security Safe Locks	[07:10]
asciilifeform	decimation: a very peculiar golden toilet. handle turns generator.	[07:11]
asciilifeform	decimation: you can pick these up on 'ebay' to play with. couple 100 usd.	[07:11]
decimation	it seems to me that the few mechanical inputs the better off you are	[07:12]
decimation	a keypad seems like a terrible design for sensitive data entry	[07:12]
RebeccaBitcoin	ya cause you can buy one of those heat things	[07:13]
RebeccaBitcoin	someone types it in, then a few mins later, take the thermal image	[07:13]
RebeccaBitcoin	find the secret code	[07:13]
Vexual	then you watch that drillbit get real hot	[07:13]
ben_vulpes	or dust for oil	[07:14]
decimation	re: drillbit << even usg safes are rated for only 10 minutes forced entry	[07:14]
ben_vulpes	or any million of other tricks	[07:14]
decimation	presumably the jackbooted thugs arrive before that time	[07:14]
RebeccaBitcoin	what's that term	[07:14]
RebeccaBitcoin	obscurity security	[07:15]
RebeccaBitcoin	or something	[07:15]
Vexual	like buy a known safe, and move the intenals?	[07:15]
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RebeccaBitcoin	no	[07:15]
RebeccaBitcoin	like buy a known safe and put nothing in it	[07:15]
RebeccaBitcoin	then put your wads of cash in a hidden place	[07:16]
RebeccaBitcoin	like the dryer	[07:16]
ben_vulpes	ultimately, obscurity is your last line of defense.	[07:16]
kakobrekla	(under the safe)	[07:16]
RebeccaBitcoin	haha	[07:16]
RebeccaBitcoin	under the safe is a horrible idea	[07:16]
RebeccaBitcoin	they steal it	[07:16]
RebeccaBitcoin	are like "hey bro check it, there's money under it"	[07:16]
Vexual	what about a gps inside that only sees the sun if the crack it with one of those doorknocker things that jerusalem has	[07:17]
RebeccaBitcoin	lol	[07:18]
mircea_popescu	like the dryer << me goes to craigslist with that information	[07:18]
Vexual	10 minutes becomes useful	[07:18]
decimation	http://theden.tv/2014/08/05/a-cashless-society-in-the-world-of-fiat/ Israel wants to outlaw cash... so only outlaws use cash	[07:21]
assbot	A Cashless Society in the World of Fiat \| Theden \| Thedening the West	[07:21]
decimation	as this blog points out, the real reason they are doing this is to bar another escape hatch from the bezzle economy	[07:22]
decimation	this will only make bitcoin look better of course, as each government reduces its fiat to another altcoin (premined of course)	[07:23]
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mircea_popescu	Israel wants to outlaw cash << israel needs to fucking burn already.	[07:25]
mircea_popescu	RebeccaBitcoin: Then I should put both in a fire >>> http://trilema.com/2014/spy-stuff/	[07:27]
assbot	Spy stuff pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[07:27]
decimation	well, going down this road would be a good first step	[07:27]
mircea_popescu	i mean all the sympathy for them people being surrounded by a bunch of arab derpage, which they consistently own bareback.	[07:28]
mircea_popescu	however... they're like the vanguard of fucktarded socialistoid idiocy.	[07:29]
RebeccaBitcoin	lol	[07:29]
RebeccaBitcoin	I kinda like israel	[07:30]
fluffypony	but is Israel safe?	[07:30]
RebeccaBitcoin	;p	[07:30]
fluffypony	I don't mean paramilitary safe, but safe for ordinary people	[07:30]
fluffypony	:-P	[07:30]
mircea_popescu	safer than south africa for ordinary women, i gather :D	[07:31]
fluffypony	hah hah	[07:31]
fluffypony	touché	[07:31]
RebeccaBitcoin	south africa is scary	[07:31]
RebeccaBitcoin	I went there a few years ago and wtf	[07:31]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: which prat?	[07:31]
fluffypony	*part	[07:31]
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RebeccaBitcoin	Pretoria	[07:32]
fluffypony	yeah PTA is shitty	[07:32]
fluffypony	nobody goes to PTA unless you have to	[07:32]
fluffypony	Cape Town -> Garden Route -> Durban and surrounds -> Sun City -> Kruger Park	[07:32]
decimation	is that where all the aliens (I mean rhodesians) live?	[07:32]
fluffypony	will take you about 4 weeks to do that route, and it's incredible	[07:32]
fluffypony	decimation: the Rhodesians are mostly in Johannesburg	[07:33]
fluffypony	Pretoria is the vanguard of old-school white Afrikaans-hood	[07:33]
decimation	where's the skyscraper that has filled with squatters and shit?	[07:33]
fluffypony	although given its political prominance they're been shuttered off to the suburbs	[07:33]
fluffypony	Johannesburg	[07:33]
fluffypony	Ponte Tower	[07:33]
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fluffypony	we used to go up there when I was a kid	[07:33]
decimation	sad story that	[07:34]
fluffypony	yeah, the building ownership thing was a fuckup	[07:34]
decimation	Why wouldn't pretoria be a nice place if it's old-school Afrikaans?	[07:34]
fluffypony	it's incredibly, incredibly boring	[07:34]
fluffypony	and ugly, except when the Jacaranda trees come into bloom	[07:35]
RebeccaBitcoin	And from another perspective, doesn't seem "safe" ;p	[07:35]
fluffypony	then you drive down the streets with these beautiful purple blossoms everywhere	[07:35]
mircea_popescu	is pretoria like a sort of pennsylvania, amish et all ?	[07:35]
mircea_popescu	or how old school is old school ?	[07:35]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: Pretoria is quite safe, certainly much safer for an adventurous tourist than Johannesburg where tourists are best kept to touristy areas	[07:35]
decimation	my favorite south africa movie is "zulu". makes me want to visit natal	[07:36]
RebeccaBitcoin	It is safe by South African standards	[07:36]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 48604 @ 0.00004237 = 2.0594 BTC [-] {4}	[07:36]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: nah, Afrikaaners aren't like that at all, more like generally overweight, beer and whisky loving, meat-bbq'ing biltong eating men and women	[07:36]
mircea_popescu	;;ud biltong	[07:37]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=biltong \| biltong. Meat, usually beef, that is salted / spiced and cut into strips and dried in the sun. Popular snack in Southern Africa. I like really fresh, wet biltong.	[07:37]
fluffypony	by old-school I mean that a lot of the older ones especially struggle to shed the ingrained views that Apartheid taught them	[07:37]
decimation	fluffypony do you see post-Apartheid south africa going the way of Zimbabwae?	[07:39]
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RebeccaBitcoin	I see south africa getting worse and worse	[07:39]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: safe by most standards - just like any city in the world, there are areas you'd generally avoid unless you were familiar with it	[07:40]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: worse? far from it.	[07:40]
RebeccaBitcoin	You think South Africa is getting better as a whole?	[07:40]
fluffypony	decimation: nope - too many overseas companies with skin in the game, they won't let a despot ruin their income ;)	[07:40]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: yes, most assuredly, from all socioeconomic aspects	[07:41]
decimation	I donno, I recall that there were plenty of overseas companies involved in Rhodesia...	[07:41]
mircea_popescu	decimation: nope - too many overseas companies with skin in the game, they won't let a despot ruin their income ;) <<< this is at best naive.	[07:41]
decimation	and the Congo too for that matter	[07:41]
mircea_popescu	and in... the ukraine.	[07:41]
fluffypony	decimation: Zim's bigger problem was its inability to oust Bob quickly	[07:41]
fluffypony	Congo, Ukraine, and Rhodesia aren't quite comparable	[07:42]
fluffypony	60% of the trade in the whole of Africa is done in Gauteng	[07:42]
mircea_popescu	under your criteria, specifically, a lot of foreign investment	[07:42]
RebeccaBitcoin	I don't know enough about it to really have a valid opinion	[07:42]
fluffypony	when Mbeki was providing staid, but ineffectual, leadership there were hands that moved him out the way	[07:42]
RebeccaBitcoin	I've heard from others that it is "continuing to go downhill" but that's based on a limited number of people, mostly from cape town	[07:43]
fluffypony	which is relatively easy - the ANC is the dominant political party, the president of the country is the elected leader of said party	[07:43]
fluffypony	so to remove him all you have to do is have a change of hands within the party	[07:43]
decimation	but how do you remove the ANC?	[07:43]
mircea_popescu	so how is a one party arrangement an improvement ?	[07:43]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: expats or still living here?	[07:43]
fluffypony	decimation: you won't	[07:43]
fluffypony	not for many years	[07:43]
RebeccaBitcoin	expats	[07:43]
fluffypony	they have "struggle credentials" still going for them (as in they fought Apartheid)	[07:43]
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fluffypony	and that isn't something you can breeze past politically	[07:44]
RebeccaBitcoin	pete	[07:44]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[07:44]
fluffypony	RebeccaBitcoin: South African expats are literally the worst, they're a running joke on the /r/southafrica sub-reddit	[07:44]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: ask, and ye shall receive	[07:44]
RebeccaBitcoin	you missed my questions about entropy	[07:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	but	[07:45]
fluffypony	they're all like "every week I saw someone murdered right outside my house, until finally I packed up my family and we moved to safe America"	[07:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	haha	[07:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	more importantly wtf pete	[07:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	Bitcoin pete is no more	[07:45]
RebeccaBitcoin	what is a contravex	[07:45]
fluffypony	it's like contravene and latex	[07:46]
decimation	fluffypony do you think the ANC will avoid appointing another Comrade Bob?	[07:46]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: i read the logs. have you read http://contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt/ ?	[07:46]
assbot	Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski	[07:46]
RebeccaBitcoin	ya thats why I wanted to ask you my questions	[07:46]
RebeccaBitcoin	instead I got mircea	[07:46]
pete_dushenski	a ok	[07:46]
RebeccaBitcoin	and ben and the others	[07:46]
pete_dushenski	lol	[07:46]
pete_dushenski	they know more than i do anyways, so lucky you!	[07:47]
RebeccaBitcoin	The conversation quickly went downhill	[07:47]
fluffypony	decimation: I think the old guard within the ANC might have, but the younger guys are starting to care less and less about race, and just want to fix the lingering effects of decades of oppresion	[07:47]
RebeccaBitcoin	in the end it was mostly insults about bald people and so fourth	[07:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1850 @ 0.00092519 = 1.7116 BTC [+]	[07:47]
pete_dushenski	it's not every day you get mircea_popescu asciilifeform and ben_vulpes answering your burning questions	[07:47]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: insults? what are those?	[07:48]
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RebeccaBitcoin	I said jewfro > bald mircea	[07:48]
RebeccaBitcoin	sticking up for you and such	[07:48]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony you know that strikes me as a very charitable read.	[07:48]
fluffypony	eg. your grandfather had no education and so lived in poverty, thus your father had no education and lived in poverty, and now you finally have an opportunity to get a reasonable education and can pull yourself out of poverty, but there are decades that must elapse before it's more "balanced"	[07:48]
*	assbot gives voice to toffoo	[07:48]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: there are some, Julius Malema was the head of the ANC Youth League and often erred on the side of being overly aggressive against whites, but he was also overly aggressive against the ANC and got his ass booted	[07:50]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: well see the jewfro needs no sticking up for	[07:50]
RebeccaBitcoin	;p	[07:50]
pete_dushenski	it single-handedly got me a rating comment of "pimp" after all	[07:50]
pete_dushenski	kinda hard to beat that	[07:50]
RebeccaBitcoin	haha	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony the concept boggles me. "overly" aggresive ? as in what, there's an appropriate level of aggresive ?	[07:51]
RebeccaBitcoin	I like your post about Y combinator	[07:51]
fluffypony	now he's started his own political party and is clamouring for nationalisation of the mining industry	[07:51]
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mircea_popescu	how about any aggrressive ==== his head on a pike.	[07:51]
RebeccaBitcoin	although not a fan of the philosophical democracy one	[07:51]
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fluffypony	mircea_popescu: like there's no problem in saying that a lot of wealth in South Africa still lies in the hands of whites by virtue of being born into privilege and so on, this is a known thing and it is spoken about and there are policies that are trying to correct this by providing an easier route to good education for the less fortunate and so on	[07:52]
decimation	after all, as I recall the ANC would necklace anyone who got "overly aggressive" in cooperating with whitey	[07:52]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: 50% ain't bad really	[07:52]
RebeccaBitcoin	overall I would say more like 75% if we include everything	[07:53]
fluffypony	here, this is where Malema is generally considered to have crossed the line - http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2011/06/16/apartheid-taught-whites-to-be-racist-malema	[07:53]
assbot	Apartheid taught whites to be racist: Malema - Times LIVE	[07:53]
mircea_popescu	somehow i don't see this education angle too much. seems it's more a case of, "let's take the land and maybe white people will just pay us to be black"	[07:53]
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fluffypony	mircea_popescu: yes - that's what Malema pushed for, and it's one of the things that eventually got him booted from the ANC, because even they believe it's a stupid idea	[07:54]
fluffypony	you don't correct the problem with handouts	[07:54]
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RebeccaBitcoin	"Bullshit" with Penn & Teller about reparations: a good episode about that in America	[07:54]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: that must be about the threshold to get people here	[07:55]
pete_dushenski	nao we know!	[07:55]
RebeccaBitcoin	;p	[07:55]
RebeccaBitcoin	its sooooper late, time to sleep	[07:55]
RebeccaBitcoin	I don't want to be late for Ronald in the morning.	[07:55]
fluffypony	decimation: they were fighting an incredibly oppressive regime, I don't think you can hold them any more accountable than those that continued to push Apartheid policies	[07:56]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: a lash for every second late?	[07:56]
RebeccaBitcoin	something like that	[07:57]
pete_dushenski	either way, i hope you don't use rushwallet anymore	[07:58]
RebeccaBitcoin	"anymore"	[07:58]
RebeccaBitcoin	lol	[07:58]
RebeccaBitcoin	suggesting I have used it in the past	[07:58]
decimation	fluffypony have you read moldbug on rhodesia?	[07:58]
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pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: i stand corrected	[07:58]
fluffypony	decimation: no?	[07:59]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: have you read my paper wallet article?	[07:59]
RebeccaBitcoin	yes	[07:59]
pete_dushenski	good	[08:00]
decimation	http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/country-that-used-to-exist.html	[08:00]
assbot	Unqualified Reservations: The country that used to exist	[08:00]
RebeccaBitcoin	I use a different method	[08:00]
RebeccaBitcoin	but yours is good too	[08:00]
fluffypony	clicks	[08:00]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: not saying you have to use it, merely that it talks about the entropy of javascript mouse clicks	[08:00]
RebeccaBitcoin	ya thats why I wanted to ask you about the mouse entropy thing	[08:01]
pete_dushenski	have you been satisfied this evening?	[08:01]
pete_dushenski	if not by me, then by my, what shall we call them... colleagues?	[08:02]
RebeccaBitcoin	not quite sure what you're asking	[08:02]
RebeccaBitcoin	no, I have not been "satisified"	[08:02]
decimation	I must retire for the evening but I would be curious about what you think about that, given your proximity to the affairs in that region of the world.	[08:02]
RebeccaBitcoin	"satisfied"	[08:02]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: ok so what demonstration do you further require?	[08:02]
RebeccaBitcoin	I am satisfied with my learnings from this chat	[08:02]
pete_dushenski	lolk	[08:03]
pete_dushenski	then we're good to go	[08:03]
RebeccaBitcoin	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=satisfaction	[08:03]
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assbot	Urban Dictionary: satisfaction	[08:03]
pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: try ;;ud "term"	[08:04]
RebeccaBitcoin	none of these were achieved: revenge, orgasm, college degree, a really hot dude's phone #	[08:04]
pete_dushenski	;;ud satisfaction	[08:04]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=satisfaction \| satisfaction. The feeling you get when you obtain one of the following: revenge, orgasm, college degree, a really hot chick's/dude's phone #. (revenge/orgasm) I ...	[08:04]
RebeccaBitcoin	;p	[08:04]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/ << another one.	[08:04]
assbot	A very unfair perspective. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[08:04]
RebeccaBitcoin	However to what you were really asking, yes, i am satisfied with the response to my entropy question	[08:05]
pete_dushenski	"There isn’t, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active."	[08:05]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i just picked up atlas shrugged today	[08:06]
pete_dushenski	we'll see if it's all it's cracked up to be	[08:06]
mircea_popescu	cool.	[08:06]
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pete_dushenski	RebeccaBitcoin: wonderful. next time, we'll work on the rest	[08:06]
RebeccaBitcoin	Have a wonderful evening. Goodnight!	[08:06]
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pete_dushenski	bon soir.	[08:06]
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Vexual	fluffy, have you travelled outside za into the contient?	[08:11]
pete_dushenski	http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2014/aug/05/standards-lab-overlooked-spy-agencys-cryptography-back-door-say-scientists	[08:15]
assbot	Standards lab overlooked spy agency's cryptography 'back door', say scientists - physicsworld.com	[08:15]
pete_dushenski	so much for Dual_EC_DRBG	[08:15]
pete_dushenski	http://jeremykun.com/main-content/	[08:20]
assbot	Main Content \| Math Programming	[08:20]
pete_dushenski	^just stumbled across a very interesting looking math blog, for those so inclined	[08:20]
mircea_popescu	heh	[08:22]
pete_dushenski	found it through szabo: https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4	[08:23]
assbot	Nick Szabo (NickSzabo4) auf Twitter	[08:23]
Vexual	don't read that, read law	[08:23]
pete_dushenski	those of you who didn't kill andreas should definitely be following that dude	[08:23]
pete_dushenski	fascinating, vast array of interests	[08:23]
mircea_popescu	szabo is on his 4th acct ?	[08:23]
pete_dushenski	probably second with squatter filling in the gap	[08:25]
pete_dushenski	squatters*	[08:25]
mircea_popescu	plenty of crap in there too. docracy ? srsly ?	[08:26]
pete_dushenski	Vexual: ok let's see your cool law blog	[08:26]
pete_dushenski	and no bob loblaw	[08:26]
Vexual	buy the book cunt	[08:26]
pete_dushenski	it's on my shelf	[08:27]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2011/fototeca-de-haur/ << not a much of a smiler eh?	[08:27]
assbot	Fototeca de Haur pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[08:27]
mircea_popescu	what are the odds that someone cracked a good joke/compliment jsut as the flash went off ?	[08:28]
Vexual	even an slr on burst wont catch it	[08:29]
pete_dushenski	fake it till you make it	[08:29]
pete_dushenski	tell yourself the joke, what?	[08:29]
pete_dushenski	goodness knows you tell yourself enough compliments, neh?	[08:29]
Vexual	moi?	[08:30]
pete_dushenski	Vexual: of course… not lol, mircea_popescu	[08:30]
Vexual	oh, sarcasm detected, my apologies	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	what am i, an entertainer ?	[08:31]
pete_dushenski	one of the best	[08:31]
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mircea_popescu	welll so then let the noobs smile :D	[08:32]
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Vexual	moi?	[08:32]
pete_dushenski	"What sort of day have sort of day have you, had..., dear?" she asked querulously. Khan looked up briefly, wearily. "Oh, same as usual," he said, "violent."	[08:33]
pete_dushenski	"How...how's the work going... dear?" she yelped miserably. The soldier shook her. "Put some affection into it!" he roared. She sobbed again. "How...how's the work going... dear?" she yelped miserably again, but this time with a kind of pathetic pout at the end. The mighty Khan sighed. "Oh, not too bad I suppose," he said in a world weary tone. "We swept through Manchuria a bit and spilt quite a lot of blood there.	[08:34]
pete_dushenski	That was in the morning, then this afternoon was mainly pillaging, though there was a bit of bloodshed around half four. What sort of day have you had?"	[08:34]
pete_dushenski	from http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/980707-07-s.html	[08:34]
assbot	DNA/The Private Life of Genghis Khan	[08:35]
pete_dushenski	which is going into a blog post as we speak	[08:35]
pete_dushenski	i'll let your fertile minds play with that while i bid ye "hasta manana"	[08:36]
Vexual	queruoulyly and ruinable are similar	[08:36]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6173 @ 0.00092794 = 5.7282 BTC [+] {2}	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	https://btc.waroflife.com/gow/22/	[08:42]
assbot	Game 22 - Death 9007 Life 993 Year 826 - War of Life	[08:42]
mircea_popescu	nuts, life < 10%	[08:42]
Vexual	dyo always bet on life?	[08:43]
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mircea_popescu	nah	[08:44]
mircea_popescu	and with that, i wish you a merry xmas.	[08:44]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[17:20]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[17:20]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[17:20]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[17:20]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell moiety but it IS spam calls lol. pretty good social engineer skills on them cold callers huh ? how did the conversation go ?	[17:22]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsbnji940W1r3oxc0o1_500.jpg << in place of good morning.	[17:26]
mircea_popescu	"We’ve completed our investigation of your unauthorized payment claim. As the payment was sent as part of a billing agreement, it is considered to be an authorized payment. However, as a courtesy to you, we have issued you a refund for this transaction."	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	phear the people paypal aims to be curteous towards.	[17:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 584 @ 0.00193014 = 1.1272 BTC [-] {10}	[17:36]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 520 @ 0.00191 = 0.9932 BTC [-] {2}	[17:38]
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mircea_popescu	mike_c btw, perhaps a link to promotion in wol faq/news ?	[17:38]
mike_c	good idea	[17:39]
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mircea_popescu	so what i wish to know is, anyone left on the internet that didn't shitlist mcdlv.net as far as stmp is concerned ?	[17:41]
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mike_c	promotion linked.	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	le cool.	[17:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.71467340 BTC to 12`777 shares, 13420 satoshi per share	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	how's teh forum thread coming along ? you got banned yet ?	[17:46]
mike_c	it is chugging along. few hundred views. no banning yet, as no forum moderrators have been told to fuck off.	[17:47]
*	assbot gives voice to Namworld	[17:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 15.60533716 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 1357 satoshi per share	[17:48]
Namworld	That's the highest crime.	[17:48]
mike_c	this will likely change if one of them ever shows up in the thread.	[17:48]
chetty	no guts, no glory	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	lol	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	no guts no gore i think it was	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	god damned i love answering people asking me "what's my budget" with http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mircea+popescu	[17:49]
assbot	Let me google that for you	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	being rich is no big deal, but being an asshole is worth all the gold in the world.	[17:49]
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mircea_popescu	o look at that ben_vulpes, you neatly show in reflogs : http://www.van-ads.com/venues/btcalpha/468x60	[17:53]
assbot	VAN iframe	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	mike_c you're so far the winner of teh referrals contest.	[17:54]
mike_c	w00t. take note advertisers.	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	http://serverfault.com/questions/536058/sending-on-behalf-of-with-authorized-email-as-envelope-but-from-email-to-be-clie <<< this made me lol.	[17:57]
assbot	postfix - Sending on behalf of with authorized email as envelope but from email to be client email - Server Fault	[17:57]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2043 @ 0.00190005 = 3.8818 BTC [-] {9}	[18:05]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 100 @ 0.01 = 1 BTC [-]	[18:12]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 585 @ 0.0019 = 1.1115 BTC [-]	[18:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 176 @ 0.01 = 1.76 BTC [-]	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski "2. Forbidden to ever make peace with a monarch, a prince or a people who have not submitted." << definitely how it goes for bitcoin.	[18:18]
mircea_popescu	none of this "adapt bitcoin to whatever laws" and none of that "adapt laws to bitcoin" either. submission, complete, not negociable.	[18:18]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[18:18]
pete_dushenski	100% :)	[18:18]
pete_dushenski	and how you beat penguirker to the punch never ceases to amaze me	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	you pingback you silly.	[18:19]
pete_dushenski	well duh	[18:20]
mircea_popescu	"The father Temüjin knew was not his biological father but his wife’s captor"...	[18:22]
pete_dushenski	yup	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	that his doesn't follow the way you want it to.	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	it attaches to the named. temujin had a wife as an unborn ?	[18:24]
[]bot	Bet placed: 2 BTC for Yes on "Tesla stock to close at over $250 in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/955/ Odds: 88(Y):12(N) by coin, 87(Y):13(N) by weight. Total bet: 16.51494688 BTC. Current weight: 74,119.	[18:25]
Namworld	http://trilema.com/2014/time-for-some-bitlicenses-of-our-own/ << Of course they can regulate anything. Regulating never prevented people from doing whatever they pleased, neither does it in this case. Regulating involves having sticks to deter non-compliance if discovered. Anyone can do that for anything, provided they got a sufficient amount of sticks in the region they wish to regulate.	[18:25]
Namworld	They even didn't say that Bitcoin can't do X or Y, because they can't regulate that, obviously. They regulate what their own people can or cannot do/use.	[18:25]
FabianB	$traded	[18:25]
empyex	FabianB: Traded in last 24 hours: S.MPOE	[18:25]
assbot	Time for some Bitlicenses of our own. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[18:25]
Namworld	They regulate people.	[18:25]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: right. should be "mother" instead of "wife"	[18:25]
Namworld	Regulating people usually involve punishment after the fact, since altering how the world works isn't really a possibility.	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	Namworld i think you're missing a major component here. what you describe, I can afford, the us can not.	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	the us may only exist as a LAWFUL body, not as merely a regulatory body.	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	so the sticks issue is moot.	[18:27]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 80 @ 0.01 = 0.8 BTC [-]	[18:28]
pete_dushenski	this is the garbage wallet rebeccabitcoin brought up yesterday: http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/07/kryptokit-launches-rushwallet-an-instant-cross-platform-bitcoin-wallet/	[18:29]
assbot	KryptoKit Launches RushWallet: An Instant, Cross-Platform Bitcoin Wallet \| TechCrunch	[18:29]
Namworld	Well one could argue they indeed have the means to enforce local regulation CURRENTLY. If that ends up being bad and hurts them afterward, they just loose power.	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	just as well one could argue they don't have the means.	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	either argument will come to the same test,	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	which will take time	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	time enough for the currently to have expired.	[18:31]
Namworld	I suppose so	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	moreover, the test is disproportionately expensive to undetake, for this reason.	[18:32]
mircea_popescu	on one hand, one party risks being maintained by the other, at its expense, well in excess of 100 btc a year, for a while. on the other hand, that other party risks complete disolution.	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	kinda why lenin and the gang survived the tsar just fine.	[18:35]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 900 @ 0.00179772 = 1.6179 BTC [-] {12}	[18:36]
pete_dushenski	sorry, lenin and co survived because they had the financial means to outlast the tsars?	[18:37]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2830 @ 0.00173658 = 4.9145 BTC [-] {7}	[18:38]
pete_dushenski	also, this is happens when you invade a country. they invade you back: http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140806/CAREERS03/308060058/New-one-star-U-S-military-s-first-general-born-Vietnam	[18:38]
assbot	New one-star is U.S. military's first general born in Vietnam \| Army Times \| armytimes.com	[18:38]
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pete_dushenski	just like taleb's couscous observation	[18:38]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 212 @ 0.00251062 = 0.5323 BTC [+] {5}	[18:39]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski tsar (who ruled by divine right) govt (which HAD the authority to exist as a merely regulatory body) made a leninlicense.	[18:40]
mircea_popescu	which lenin did not bother to get. he was arrested, and accused of lenining without a license. this is the test above.	[18:41]
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mircea_popescu	if lenin fails this test, his punishment is to... go to switzerland.	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	if the tsar's government fails the test, its punishment is to no longer exist.	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	this differential does not yield surprising results in practice, and the standing of the us govt is weaker than the tsar's was.	[18:42]
pete_dushenski	aic, ty	[18:42]
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pete_dushenski	http://contravex.com/2014/08/07/this-is-the-bitcoin-empire-this-is-the-new-yasa/	[18:43]
assbot	This Is The Bitcoin Empire. This Is The New Yasa \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski	[18:43]
pete_dushenski	^because i'll go gray waiting for penguirker	[18:44]
ben_vulpes	if not by me, then by my, what shall we call them... colleagues? << it's the peerage ;)	[18:44]
pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes: yes, that's much better :)	[18:45]
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pete_dushenski	and mr. ben_vulpes, as a student of power, you should enjoy this most recent blog post	[18:45]
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ben_vulpes	it is now loaded into the tablist	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	hot on espn : the peerage vs teh derpage.	[18:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 58 @ 0.01489998 = 0.8642 BTC [+]	[18:46]
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ben_vulpes	am only waiting for babe to enface-ify then it's bike to breastfast sammich time	[18:46]
ben_vulpes	followed by MOAR SERVER	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	enface-ify ?	[18:47]
mircea_popescu	she wears makeup biking ?!	[18:47]
ben_vulpes	great thing about new server is that i can run it as hot as i want without some virtualization layer going "mmmm, that's a little bit too hot. let's bork your input and ouput for a bit."	[18:47]
ben_vulpes	well, teeth.	[18:47]
pete_dushenski	tooth blush?	[18:47]
mircea_popescu	ahahh	[18:47]
pete_dushenski	dental mascara?	[18:48]
ben_vulpes	har	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes yup.	[18:48]
pete_dushenski	gum liner?	[18:48]
pete_dushenski	"Google will begin using website encryption, or HTTPS, as a ranking signal – a move which should prompt website developers who have dragged their heels on increased security measures" << lulz	[18:48]
ben_vulpes	(plus 8 whole cores! oodles of memory!)	[18:48]
*	ben_vulpes is a happy camper	[18:48]
asciilifeform	lol	[18:49]
mircea_popescu	lol	[18:49]
mircea_popescu	then he'	[18:49]
asciilifeform	no heartbleed, no pagerank.	[18:49]
mircea_popescu	s all "wait mpex costs 20k a month ?!?!?!"	[18:49]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: backdoors for all!	[18:50]
pete_dushenski	it's a right	[18:50]
ben_vulpes	no heartbleed, no pagerank. << search engines. next frontier of bitcoin.	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski i know i treat teh backdoors as a right...	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the problem with google is that it's becoming rather irrelevant. think about your own data consumption process, how often do you include something you found on google ? and when exactly ?	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	generally you KNOW the sources.	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	if you dont, you know how to identify one, and google supplies a raw list, like a sort of research intern.	[18:52]
pete_dushenski	fluffypony: badminton << count me in for this team! 99.9% chance i'm the best player here :)	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	in any case, the people who end up places because google are generally speaking they too young or too stupid to have a populated mental space / bookmark list	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	and the more action driven among those are on the various muppetwitters already	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	so really there's not all that much left google can do.	[18:53]
pete_dushenski	or they just like typing in the url bar to get the wiki link	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski i know i call lo... from the url bar to go places 10x as often as i call google.	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	and that's raw frequency. if moderated by importance... 99% of what google does for me is grep trilema.	[18:54]
pete_dushenski	backdooring google ;)	[18:55]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: unfortunately google has a watertight monopoly on at least one resource - usenet archive.	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	that's copied to all hell no ?	[18:56]
asciilifeform	not in totality, no	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	so what are you waiting for ?	[18:56]
asciilifeform	they bought (and zapped) 'dejanews' - the only reasonably total archive	[18:56]
chetty	lets go back to gopher	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	it'll be the lulz of all time if 20 years from now google survives as this grim, unwelcoming steward of usenet archive.	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	suing everyone everywhere.	[18:57]
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asciilifeform	they'll survive - or not - as the same thing microshit is - u.s. department of search engine.	[18:57]
asciilifeform	(vs u.s. dept. of operating system)	[18:57]
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mircea_popescu	lol	[18:57]
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asciilifeform	(nobody but me and perhaps half a dozen other weirdos give a flying fuck about usenet archive)	[18:58]
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BigBitz	I used to like usenet.	[19:02]
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asciilifeform	http://yarchive.net << for anyone unfamiliar with this unique collection	[19:03]
assbot	Yarchive	[19:03]
asciilifeform	^ one thinking man's 'best of' archive	[19:03]
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pete_dushenski	http://contravex.com/2014/08/03/democracy-vs-aristocracy/#comment-1086	[19:05]
assbot	Democracy vs. Aristocracy \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski	[19:05]
pete_dushenski	some nincompoop thinks zuckerberg can amass 1 mn btc. just like that. more lulz	[19:06]
BigBitz	I'm sure he could do a 51% attack if he /really/ wanted. :)	[19:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72000 @ 0.00091367 = 65.7842 BTC [-] {4}	[19:07]
pete_dushenski	BigBitz: ya, on dogecoin	[19:08]
BigBitz	yeah, because he wouldn't have the financial resources to do it on BTC....	[19:08]
asciilifeform	does arsebook have its own crapcoin yet ?	[19:08]
pete_dushenski	they have credits kinda thingies	[19:08]
pete_dushenski	BigBitz: his resources are tied up in a stock which he basically can't sell	[19:09]
pete_dushenski	http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231278210449?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 << nifty	[19:09]
assbot	Apple MAC Macintosh Adjustable Keyboard Ergo Ergonomic Keypad M1242 Vintage Mint \| eBay	[19:09]
pete_dushenski	and ending in 15m	[19:09]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: z's 'resources' mainly consist of his seat at the fuhrer's table (as propaganda minister)	[19:10]
BigBitz	Yeah that $3B he cashed out must be hardh, pete_dushenski.	[19:10]
asciilifeform	so hypothetically he could access various resources through means other than buying	[19:10]
pete_dushenski	BigBitz: $3b eh? news to me :)	[19:10]
BigBitz	He cashed out over $4B if I remember.	[19:10]
BigBitz	We would need to Google to confirm but, yeah, pretty sure he cashed out multi Billions.	[19:11]
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pete_dushenski	;;google zuckerberg facebook stock sale	[19:11]
BigBitz	and he did some last year as well.	[19:11]
gribble	Zuckerberg to Pocket $1 Billion in Facebook Stock Sale - WSJ: ; Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg Sell Shares, Facebook Stock Price ...: ; Facebook's Zuckerberg selling $2.3 billion in stock - USA Today: (1 more message)	[19:11]
BigBitz	So I guess he has cashed out over $5Bn.	[19:11]
BigBitz	Either way - don't fool yourself if you think the SUPER RICH couldn't do what they wanted with Bitcoin. Not saying it would be an easy thing but it's not at all impossible.	[19:12]
pete_dushenski	"While Zuckerberg will end up pocketing $33 million, his overall stake in Facebook is barely changing, and he’s donating $1 billion to charity."	[19:12]
BigBitz	Yeah that was the second cash out - he did $3Bn this year I am almost certain.	[19:12]
pete_dushenski	from the second link, dec 2013	[19:12]
BigBitz	Let me goodl...	[19:13]
BigBitz	errr Google.	[19:13]
asciilifeform	SUPER RICH couldn't do what they wanted << they contracted it out. to usg.	[19:13]
BigBitz	According to a Facebook filing this week, Zuckerberg pulled the trigger on some 60 million shares worth of options at the end of last year, netting a profit of about $3.3 billion. He immediately turned around and sold more than 41 million shares while turning over 18 million, worth almost $1 billion at the time, to his favorite charity, the Silicon Valley Community Foundation.	[19:13]
BigBitz	So yeah... he got dat paper, yo.	[19:14]
pete_dushenski	well, if the "super rich" could touch bitcoin, they would	[19:14]
pete_dushenski	not like they're waiting for a mailed invitation	[19:14]
pete_dushenski	it's sitting right there	[19:14]
BigBitz	You change from "omg not possible" to "they would if they could" heh.	[19:14]
BigBitz	I suspect plently of rich people have Bitcoin.	[19:15]
BigBitz	If they want it they can get it.	[19:15]
pete_dushenski	BigBitz: dude, those two reduce to the same thing	[19:15]
BigBitz	ie; if Zuckerberg really really really wanted 1M BTC of course he could.	[19:15]
mircea_popescu	(nobody but me and perhaps half a dozen other weirdos give a flying fuck about usenet archive) << nonsense. history is history.	[19:15]
BigBitz	Anyways - I am not trying to incite an argument. I just think and believe that if they wanted it they'd get it. Cash is their king (and many others).	[19:16]
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fluffypony	but amassing 1M BTC wouldn't cost him $660 M	[19:17]
fluffypony	the market implications are huge	[19:17]
asciilifeform	fluffypony: no market implications if you sink the usd into mining vs. buying.	[19:17]
fluffypony	that's true	[19:17]
BigBitz	that's why we need darkpool/iceberg ;)	[19:18]
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pete_dushenski	fluffypony: 1 mn btc on the market would cost infinity billion ;)	[19:18]
BigBitz	bbl... no arguing :P	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony: no market implications if you sink the usd into mining vs. buying. << think again.	[19:19]
fluffypony	not arguing, just thinking	[19:19]
asciilifeform	baking a sha2 core into 10mil consumer webcams/routers/ethernet-enabled dildos costs considerably less than 1b.	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	what btc revenue can you guarantee me today for a 1bn usd investment in s.rig ?	[19:19]
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mike_c	;;calc 1000000 / (25 * 6 * 24)	[19:20]
gribble	277.777777778	[19:20]
mike_c	hm, good luck getting 1mn through mining	[19:20]
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mircea_popescu	Either way - don't fool yourself if you think the SUPER RICH couldn't do what they wanted with Bitcoin. Not saying it would be an easy thing but it's not at all impossible. << i'm saying it would be impossible.	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	if it weren't impossible, it'd have been done already.	[19:20]
asciilifeform	hell, doesn't have to be below-board - sell next iPnohe with the understanding that $1 off monthly charge but gizmo mines for the fuhrer while plugged into mains for battery charge.	[19:20]
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mircea_popescu	there's a reason only washed up nobodies a la pierce and twinkletoss come derping around to be impaled on the fence pikes.	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	that reason is that the people with some self respect left don't wish to play the part of decorative mosquito.	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform even so.	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	mike_c exactly.	[19:21]
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mircea_popescu	Anyways - I am not trying to incite an argument. I just think and believe that if they wanted it they'd get it. Cash is their king (and many others). << the world has new kings, meanwhile. the direct effect of this being that no, the old kings couldn't anything, whether they wanted it or not.	[19:22]
asciilifeform	chinese have useful concept, 'mandate of heaven'	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	Jefferson Davis couldn't sign a law, either.	[19:23]
B51Num1	bats_cd03 belcher Belsage ben_vulpes bertani bettycla1p bgupta BigBitz BingoBoingo bitcoinhtx bitspill Blazedout419 blg bounce btc111	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	BigBitz also you will notice, taking 1bn of stock and lavisingh it upon some charity does empathically not constitute a cash out.	[19:23]
BigBitz	read the whole thread, mircea_popescu.	[19:24]
BigBitz	not the bit that supports your opinion.	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	it's a cash out when he takes 1bn of facebook stock and gives it to support rebels ousting the us from the ukraine.	[19:24]
BigBitz	he previously cashed out $3Bn worth.	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	that's cashing out : when you take your money and hit someone over the head with it.	[19:24]
BigBitz	Haha.	[19:24]
BigBitz	does it have to be Ukranians?	[19:24]
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mircea_popescu	something i can do, if i want. i can sell out mpoe stock and put a 1bn dolar contract on obama's head.	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	if i feel so inclined one morning.	[19:24]
BigBitz	Well; you can't.	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	zuckerberg does not. which is why i'm a player and zuckerberg for all the press, is not.	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	yes, actually i can.	[19:25]
BigBitz	noone is stupid enough to pay $1Bn though :)	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	and whether i do or not is a matter of my own private and personal arbitrariety and nothing else.	[19:25]
BigBitz	arbitrary numbers are arbitary.	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	in the sense someone is stupid enough to pay 100bn for fb and 20k btc for eth...	[19:25]
BigBitz	Eth... the latest scam coin.	[19:25]
BigBitz	:\|	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	i have little worry about the actual market value of things actually on the actual market.	[19:25]
BigBitz	It's scary what people throw money at...	[19:25]
asciilifeform	eth is astounding - proves that 2010 never ended	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	seems your entire argument line just ate itself.	[19:26]
asciilifeform	and who knows when will end	[19:26]
BigBitz	mircea_popescu? How so.	[19:26]
*	asciilifeform can't help but suspect a 'laundry' for stolen/usg-snarfed/etc coin	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	what, ima be trapped in meta jail now cause you're bored ? log's there.	[19:26]
BigBitz	The point was Zuckerberg has lots of cash/resources. If he was inclined to have lots of BTC I'm sure he would.	[19:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.0009142 = 18.4211 BTC [+]	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	the point is that no, he does not have any.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	he has lots of resources as long as he uses them a certain way	[19:27]
BigBitz	I forgot you and him were buddies.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	and this way is not included there.	[19:27]
BigBitz	you know him /that/ well.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	i don't need to be buddies with a cockroach to know why it can't fly.	[19:27]
BigBitz	but the American cockroach does fly.	[19:28]
asciilifeform	;;google joseph nacchio	[19:28]
gribble	Joseph Nacchio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Former qwest ceo joseph nacchio: tales from a white-collar prison ...: ; Former Qwest CEO Joe Nacchio Tells Story of Fight Against NSA ...:	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	not this one.	[19:28]
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[]bot	Bet placed: 1.4996 BTC for Yes on "Tesla stock to close at over $250 in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/955/ Odds: 89(Y):11(N) by coin, 88(Y):12(N) by weight. Total bet: 18.01454688 BTC. Current weight: 74,093.	[19:34]
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fluffypony	near as I can ascertain	[19:36]
fluffypony	$600 million worth of mining hardware would not work	[19:36]
fluffypony	it would bump difficulty up to over 100 billion	[19:36]
asciilifeform	fluffypony: try 600 million sans electric bill	[19:36]
asciilifeform	or, alternatively, usurpation of existing capacity	[19:36]
fluffypony	ok - so assuming you userp all existing capacity	[19:37]
fluffypony	it still bumps diff to over 81 billion	[19:37]
fluffypony	at 0 electricity cost	[19:37]
fluffypony	assuming the usual profitability fall-off in mining	[19:37]
fluffypony	you'd take a year to break even	[19:38]
asciilifeform	which fall-off? block reward halving ?	[19:39]
fluffypony	no, increasing difficulty	[19:39]
fluffypony	although I suppose you'd have little in the way of competition at that juncture	[19:39]
fluffypony	still, with no fall-off, complete replacement of existing hashing power, and no electricity, you're still on break-even after 263 days	[19:40]
fluffypony	pretty sure if that happened they'd move the PoW to SHA3 :-P	[19:40]
asciilifeform	who is 'they' ?	[19:40]
fluffypony	His Royal Gavinness	[19:41]
fluffypony	He Who Is Weighted 40 for Gitian Signing	[19:41]
asciilifeform	fluffypony: if tonight he checks in hardcoded root pw for usg, will you install new ver.?	[19:42]
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mike_c	we already know what happens when govt starts mining. difficulty bumps to 19B.	[19:42]
fluffypony	a change in PoW because the mining network is being replaced by a single competitor is a completely different value proposition	[19:43]
fluffypony	I'm confident we'd see acceptance of that change across the board in such an event	[19:44]
asciilifeform	'number one rule' of dominating mining - don't be an obvious idiot	[19:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 210 @ 0.00248687 = 0.5222 BTC [-] {5}	[19:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.2635561 = 0.5271 BTC [-]	[19:44]
asciilifeform	(emphasis on 'obvious')	[19:44]
fluffypony	sure	[19:44]
fluffypony	either way, it's all hypothetical	[19:44]
fluffypony	I just don't think that this is entirely plausible through mining or market buys	[19:45]
*	asciilifeform knows no hard facts whatsoever about ownership distribution of existing mining hardware, and you - for any value of 'you' - don't either.	[19:45]
mike_c	how so? the possibilites aren't limitless	[19:45]
fluffypony	sure, but there are known mining entities	[19:45]
fluffypony	that get interviewed and are outspoken and own relatively huge mining farms	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	$600 million worth of mining hardware would not work << kinda th point.	[19:46]
fluffypony	if they felt their hashrate was being unatturally displaced they would say something	[19:46]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: yes - I'm backing what you said up	[19:46]
asciilifeform	using methods known to even the lowliest spammer, you can make an arbitrarily large hash farm look like an arbitrarily large number of proportionately-smaller ones	[19:46]
fluffypony	I had to run the numbers myself to confirm my gut feeling	[19:46]
asciilifeform	distributed however you like around the globe	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony yes, im agreeing with your backing :D	[19:47]
fluffypony	lol	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	'number one rule' of dominating mining - don't be an obvious idiot << problem is the obvious symbol is only defined in the core dump	[19:47]
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*	assbot gives voice to diatonic	[19:49]
asciilifeform	in other news...	[19:50]
asciilifeform	https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140806/07155928127/tektronix-uses-dmca-notice-to-try-to-stop-oscilliscope-hacking.shtml	[19:50]
assbot	Tektronix Uses DMCA Notice To Try To Stop Oscilloscope Hacking \| Techdirt	[19:50]
chetty	http://www.cnbc.com/id/101884093	[19:50]
assbot	Argentina sues US at Int'l Court of Justice over its sovereign debt	[19:50]
mircea_popescu	lalala	[19:51]
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[]bot	Bet placed: 1.09 BTC for Yes on "Tesla stock to close at over $250 in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/955/ Odds: 90(Y):10(N) by coin, 89(Y):11(N) by weight. Total bet: 19.10454688 BTC. Current weight: 74,085.	[19:56]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 797 @ 0.00196485 = 1.566 BTC [+]	[20:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 917 @ 0.0019648 = 1.8017 BTC [-]	[20:20]
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decimation	re: google < I've heard from folks who work there that it has already become a sad bureaucracy	[20:28]
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decimation	it's amusing to watch the half-life of a silly-con valley company - only takes ten years to go from young turks to us dept. of search engine	[20:28]
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thickasthieves	so nasdaq has begun hyping COIN I see	[20:31]
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thickasthieves	maybe it has preliminary approval	[20:32]
decimation	http://lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/bert-knabe/2010-12-22/battle-our-data-holiday-allegory#.U-PJXdMhfM0	[20:33]
FabianB	what's COIN?	[20:33]
decimation	"Warrants become a lot easier to serve when it's only one or two mega-social sites involved rather than a multitude of host providers and network companies. (Conspiracy theorists are already taking note of that same Person of the Year article's mention of FBI Director Robert Mueller just dropping by to say hello to Zuckerberg in the midst of a company meeting.)"	[20:33]
decimation	facebook << us dept of 'social media'	[20:33]
decimation	thickasthieves is that the winklevii fund?	[20:34]
decimation	okay yeah it is http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin-news/winklevoss-bitcoin-trust-etf-major-innovation-quickly-growing-etf-market-says-nasdaq-executive-40949	[20:35]
assbot	Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust ETF is major innovation in the quickly growing ETF market Says NASDAQ Executive \| Forex Minute - Financial News \| Stock Market \| Trading Commodities \| Binary Options Updates - Forex Minute Portal	[20:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45700 @ 0.0009124 = 41.6967 BTC [-]	[20:43]
thickasthieves	that article is a robot or somrthing	[20:45]
thickasthieves	all kindsa dropped words	[20:45]
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decimation	yeah sorry for the search engine spam, here's a better link: http://www.etf.com/sections/features/22835-nasdaqs-lavalle-bitcoin-etf-a-turning-point.html	[20:54]
assbot	Nasdaqs LaValle: Bitcoin ETF A Turning Point \| ETF.com	[20:54]
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decimation	the question is: if this isn't a scam, where are they going to trade bitcoin?	[20:55]
decimation	that seems to be a pretty important detail	[20:55]
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[]bot	Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin over $1000 before September" http://bitbet.us/bet/866/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 25(Y):75(N) by weight. Total bet: 52.93365572 BTC. Current weight: 20,617.	[21:01]
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asciilifeform	http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/07/hacker-bitcoin-mining-pool-internet-service-providers-canada-dell	[21:06]
assbot	Hacker makes $84k hijacking Bitcoin mining pool \| Technology \| theguardian.com	[21:06]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 200 @ 0.00395048 = 0.7901 BTC [+] {4}	[21:15]
kakobrekla	As many as 8,000 Dogecoins, equivalent to $1.42, were lost as a result of the hack.	[21:16]
kakobrekla	prolly costs more to store this line in the logs.	[21:16]
[]bot	Bet placed: 3 BTC for Yes on "Tesla stock to close at over $250 in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/955/ Odds: 91(Y):9(N) by coin, 90(Y):10(N) by weight. Total bet: 22.10454688 BTC. Current weight: 74,054.	[21:16]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: seems like normal coin was involved as well.	[21:16]
kakobrekla	yeah, just thought it was funny a buck of doge gets a mention.	[21:17]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: presumably the artist didn't know what he'd find (alts, etc) and took the trouble to write a generic hijacker.	[21:17]
asciilifeform	incidentally, this is another good way to convert an ocean of fiat to btc.	[21:18]
asciilifeform	(since fiat is, well, fiat - doesn't matter so much if it isn't efficient...)	[21:19]
asciilifeform	the cheapest way to convert fiat to btc probably remains: hire a buterin, orchestrate media mouthpieces, watch the coin roll in.	[21:24]
kakobrekla	is the cobol source of the i presume ex swedish tax legislation online anywhere	[21:24]
mod6	<+kakobrekla> prolly costs more to store this line in the logs. << lol	[21:24]
decimation	it will be interesting to see what happens to the bitcoin price when the COIN ETF turns on	[21:25]
decimation	poor exploit << sounds like a router hack	[21:28]
decimation	s/poor/pool	[21:28]
FabianB	;;cal 84000 / 600.0	[21:30]
gribble	Error: "cal" is not a valid command.	[21:30]
decimation	asciilifeform it seems to me that a router is exactly the kind of device that 'wants' to be a dataflow architechture,	[21:30]
asciilifeform	decimation: everything 'wants' to be dataflow arch.	[21:30]
asciilifeform	'when two objects of unknown types encounter one another, does the Universe throw an exception ?'	[21:31]
decimation	yet cisco et.al. make obscure turdware and charge you to learn how to use it	[21:31]
decimation	lol that's a good quote	[21:31]
FabianB	;;calk 84000 / 600.0	[21:31]
gribble	Error: "calk" is not a valid command.	[21:31]
FabianB	;;calkc 84000 / 600.0	[21:31]
gribble	Error: "calkc" is not a valid command.	[21:31]
kakobrekla	but the unknowness is a presumption	[21:32]
decimation	http://www.virgin.com/entrepreneur/startup-cities-can-entrepreneurship-save-politics	[21:36]
assbot	Startup Cities: Can entrepreneurship save politics? - Virgin.com	[21:37]
decimation	"I met one trashpicker named Miriam who made her livelihood with her teenage daughter by selling plastic scraps for a dollar or two a day. She was telling me her story: the grinding poverty, the constant threat of extortion and murder by organized crime, the shooting of her husband, the sexual assaults on her daughter. In the middle of this heartbreaking story, her phone rings and she pulls out a nice smart phone, texts someone, and	[21:38]
decimation	turns back to me like nothing happened. Miriam faces these ancient human problems of violence and poverty, yet she owns a futuristic technology like a smartphone. This haunted me for months."	[21:38]
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xanthyos	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_BjSNX021c	[21:43]
assbot	four black painters - YouTube	[21:43]
[]bot	Bet placed: 1.69 BTC for Yes on "Tesla stock to close at over $250 in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/955/ Odds: 92(Y):8(N) by coin, 91(Y):9(N) by weight. Total bet: 23.79454688 BTC. Current weight: 74,044.	[21:44]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 343 @ 0.01 = 3.43 BTC [-]	[21:51]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 412 @ 0.0018896 = 0.7785 BTC [-] {6}	[21:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 141 @ 0.01488 = 2.0981 BTC [+]	[21:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00091225 = 19.9783 BTC [-] {3}	[21:59]
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ben_vulpes	everyone's getting 18% returns in the fiat market, and looking at me like the crazy one when i shake my head at the ridiculousness of it all.	[22:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24947 @ 0.00091213 = 22.7549 BTC [-]	[22:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 57 @ 0.01488 = 0.8482 BTC [+]	[22:09]
pankkake	http://www.coindesk.com/avalancha-online-store-argentina-bitcoin/	[22:10]
assbot	Avalancha Opens Online Store to Argentina's Bitcoin Shoppers	[22:10]
pankkake	https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/08/the_us_intellig.html	[22:10]
assbot	Schneier on Security: The US Intelligence Community has a Third Leaker	[22:10]
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mike_c	;;calc (194000 / [ticker --last]) - 314.6	[22:14]
gribble	14.213559322	[22:14]
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thickasthieves	TSLA closed above $250	[22:27]
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mircea_popescu	turns back to me like nothing happened. Miriam faces these ancient human problems of violence and poverty, yet she owns a futuristic technology like a smartphone. This haunted me for months." <<< all this meaningless bs. was the daughter hawt is all i want to know.	[22:37]
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FabianB	$vwap s.mpoe	[22:39]
empyex	FabianB: S.MPOE 1 day: average: 0.00091986 high: 0.00094217 low: 0.00091213 volume: 642781 btc: 591.26873708 7 day: average: 0.00086209 high: 0.00094217 low: 0.00080628 volume: 3327774 btc: 2868.85610629 30 day: average: 0.00082003 high: 0.00094217 low: 0.00074501 volume: 9532989 btc: 7817.31985028	[22:39]
FabianB	$vwap s.nsa	[22:39]
empyex	FabianB: S.NSA 1 day: average: 0.000101 high: 0.000101 low: 0.000101 volume: 1 btc: 0.000101 7 day: average: 0.000101 high: 0.000101 low: 0.000101 volume: 1 btc: 0.000101 30 day: average: 0.000101 high: 0.000101 low: 0.000101 volume: 3 btc: 0.000303	[22:39]
FabianB	$vwap s.mg	[22:40]
empyex	FabianB: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.000091 high: 0.000091 low: 0.000091 volume: 1 btc: 0.000091 7 day: average: 0.000091 high: 0.000091 low: 0.000091 volume: 1 btc: 0.000091 30 day: average: 0.000091 high: 0.000091 low: 0.000091 volume: 3 btc: 0.000273	[22:40]
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mircea_popescu	pankkake third obvious one, anyway.	[22:42]
mike_c	mircea, you sweating yet? warren is still winning.	[22:43]
thickasthieves	lol	[22:44]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26050 @ 0.00091135 = 23.7407 BTC [-] {2}	[23:13]
*	zhongben has quit (Quit: Page closed)	[23:17]
*	cowloon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:19]
*	cowloon (~blipts72@87.121.52.47) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:20]
*	kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[23:21]
*	kermit (unknown@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:22]
*	zoinky has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[23:23]
rithm	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGILISYllug	[23:25]
assbot	80 miles per hour question - YouTube	[23:25]
*	ronkrt1 (~ronkrt@67.239.253.65) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:26]
*	darlidada (~Decima`@unaffiliated/decima/x-7503346) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32750 @ 0.00091077 = 29.8277 BTC [-]	[23:33]
*	DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com ))	[23:42]
*	ronkrt1 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[23:59]

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