Forum logs for 04 May 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://youtu.be/B1TI7aqgfyk?t=2m2s << putin promised ar oil&gas exploration of 'largest deposit in south america', war machines incl. fighter jets, and - in the segment linked, to jurov's certain delight - a sp. lang. version of 'rt'. [00:10]
assbot 01.05.2015 Лучшая РЕЧЬ и ВЫСТУПЛЕНИЕ путина в Аргентине! ВСЕМ СМОТРЕТЬ - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qdv48t ) [00:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: did it happen ? [00:10]
asciilifeform 4" 30' commented re: falklandswank [00:13]
decimation I don't get why argentinians give a fuck about falklands [00:16]
asciilifeform same as jp re: kuril islands. [00:16]
asciilifeform national wankatron [00:16]
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decimation yeah, it's always good democratic politics to get people to hate 'the other' [00:17]
asciilifeform re: rt: https://youtu.be/Q8o9KBGAp70?t=30s << apparently it happened. [00:18]
assbot ПУТИН и Кристина Киршнер запускают вещание КАНАЛА на испанском в Аргентине - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qdw38G ) [00:18]
decimation actually the uk would probably be pissed if russia exports the latest tech there [00:18]
asciilifeform a few wks ago. [00:18]
asciilifeform those drums in the background [00:20]
asciilifeform very familiar. [00:20]
* asciilifeform heard much the same rhythm near $hotel, professional 'protest' derps dropped by bus and marched around to it [00:20]
decimation in ar? or dc? [00:21]
asciilifeform ar [00:21]
decimation add professional 'protestors' as another side-effect of social democracy [00:22]
* asciilifeform wishes the ar folks luck in sinking that annoying naturally-occurring aircraft carrier currently infested with nato [00:22]
decimation hey, the us was official neutral in the uk-ar war [00:23]
asciilifeform brits tried to invoke nato, i am still unclear on why this did not work [00:23]
asciilifeform technically met the conditions [00:23]
decimation yes, this led to amusing stunts on behalf the brits, since they barely had an air force/navy/army on their own [00:24]
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decimation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck < "The attacking Vulcan was refuelled seven times on the outward journey and once on the return journey. " [00:25]
assbot Operation Black Buck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6JyUZ ) [00:25]
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asciilifeform https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfker6cK3SM << historic lulz [00:29]
assbot Riots in Buenos Aires after Argentina lost the Falklands War - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qdxl3I ) [00:29]
decimation asciilifeform: in the context of the time, the us was probably worried about strengthening the cause of pro-soviet 'rebels' in south america [00:32]
decimation according to the conservative heritage foundation, obama's people can't help themselves by stirring up shit in argentina http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/03/the-united-states-should-recognize-british-sovereignty-over-the-falkland-islands [00:35]
assbot Falkland Islands: U.S. Should Recognize British Sovereignty [00:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43000 @ 0.00027146 = 11.6728 BTC [-] {2} [00:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26850 @ 0.00028416 = 7.6297 BTC [+] {3} [00:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform that "largest deposit" thing, ie vaca muerta, is as best i can determine a massive government-sponsored scam. [00:54]
mircea_popescu "we're gonna pretend like we got oil because it's the next best thing to actually going to work" [00:54]
mircea_popescu re that 3,658 views youtube : them riots aren't as notable as a minor football game. [00:58]
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* asciilifeform did not drill, does not know [01:08]
asciilifeform but it would be fitting if ru were to pay for hallucinated oil with hallucinated airplanes. [01:08]
asciilifeform (which, afaik, is what happened) [01:08]
mircea_popescu !up bmarch [01:09]
-assbot- You voiced bmarch for 30 minutes. [01:09]
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bmarch hello, how is everyone? [01:10]
mircea_popescu not bad. [01:10]
mircea_popescu for the record the british vulcan is one of the shittiest bombers in history. [01:10]
mircea_popescu basically a half load quarter range b52 [01:12]
asciilifeform how much bomber needed against poor orcs. [01:13]
mircea_popescu if you're gonna make it.... [01:15]
mircea_popescu http://catriel25noticias.com/new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2326:estafa-con-promesa-de-trabajo-en-vaca-muerta&catid=130&Itemid=584 [01:19]
assbot Estafa con promesa de trabajo en Vaca Muerta - Catriel 25 Noticias 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1EKjX1Z ) [01:19]
mircea_popescu when's the last time the bulk of the news about a major find consists of various scams ? [01:19]
* asciilifeform learned today that ar once knew how to make airplanes [01:20]
mircea_popescu before shitheadism/peronism/populism, argentina was a major world power. [01:21]
asciilifeform the jets were designed, it seems, by germans (naturally) under peron [01:23]
asciilifeform but other than this - sure [01:23]
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asciilifeform ' President Perón envisioned that a benefit of setting up an aviation factory in Argentina would be to introduce production standards comparable to world-class manufacturing facilities. However, Tank realized that production tools and jigs were not feasible at this stage and relied instead on essentially hand-built examples.' (pediwikian l0l) [01:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40300 @ 0.00027065 = 10.9072 BTC [-] {2} [01:38]
asciilifeform why does this feel familiar. [01:38]
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kakobrekla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dMoK48QGL8 [10:07]
assbot Equal Pay for Monkeys - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1brSjw4 ) [10:07]
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* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [10:10]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [10:10]
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mircea_popescu ahaha scandalized monkey [10:12]
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mircea_popescu anyway, "fairness" is not involved there. [10:13]
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davout kakobrekla: nice one [10:35]
davout "fairness, invented during the french revolution" [10:36]
davout mircea_popescu: how is it not? [10:38]
mircea_popescu animals fuck, that doesn't mean animals display "the human notion of love". they display the animal notion of love. [10:39]
mircea_popescu therein depicted is some monkey behaviour. [10:39]
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mircea_popescu no matter what happens, it's still not going to be relevant to the human behaviour. [10:39]
kakobrekla shupup monkey [10:39]
mircea_popescu yes, i understand that cunts run perl and people on the internet posing as scientists with their "experiment" consisting of a two monkey show use cunts for brains [10:40]
mircea_popescu nevertheless, regexp is not the basis for research, or knowledge. [10:40]
davout animals can not display "the human notion of X", by definition [10:41]
mircea_popescu exactly. [10:41]
davout maybe fairness is meant in a broader sense than "the human notion of fairness" [10:41]
mircea_popescu and inasmuch as a "animal fairness" is not in common use, calling that fairness is really not unlike calling the guy cunthead. [10:41]
davout or as in "fairness as we thought was unique to humans" [10:42]
mircea_popescu if it is, it's his job to explain it. not unnamed "philosophers'" [10:42]
mircea_popescu yeah. we also thought the color red was unique to staplers, perhaps. [10:42]
mircea_popescu who's "we" ? celia whatshername / [10:43]
mircea_popescu for that matter, envy is what's at work there, not "fairness". [10:43]
mircea_popescu the animal doesn't go "you know bob, this is un-sjw!!1". it goes "fuck you bitch!" [10:43]
davout how'd you know it doesn't go "you know bob, this is un-sjw!!1, also fuck you bitch!" [10:44]
mircea_popescu i don't. [10:46]
mircea_popescu for all you know snakes are wise and the world rests on turtles. [10:46]
mircea_popescu how do you know god didn't mean for you to be a woman ? [10:46]
davout i'd tend to think that if this was envy, the first monkey would eat the cucumber, and then express some sort of anger at the experimenter, but yeah, what do i know, i'm not a monkey, at least, most of the time [10:47]
mircea_popescu maybe eating the lesser food is how they enact group hierarchy [10:47]
mircea_popescu and the monkey is going "fuck you bitch" quite literally at the experimenter, whom it (wrongly) perceives as a monkey of the same age and sex. [10:47]
kakobrekla maybe cucumber is more healthy [10:47]
davout yeah, sounds sensible [10:47]
mircea_popescu so it doesn't want to be made his bitch. [10:47]
davout cuntcumber [10:47]
mircea_popescu maybe you know, random idiots who failed in academia and took to the internet with their dog and pony "scientific" show did this FOR A REASON, [10:48]
mircea_popescu and that reason being that when you're stupid, you really need an audience that doesn't know better. [10:48]
mircea_popescu then you can talk to it about "anthropologists" and not name any. [10:48]
mircea_popescu everyone's happy. [10:48]
mircea_popescu i know when russel told me that fairness was invented during the crusades, i fucking quoted him by the name on my blog. [10:49]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62825 @ 0.00026382 = 16.5745 BTC [+] {4} [10:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52325 @ 0.00026226 = 13.7228 BTC [-] [10:59]
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mike_c "it looks like Goldman Sachs wants to get in on the ground floor." [11:12]
mike_c i guess they haven't read mp's "you're too late" post [11:12]
mircea_popescu iirc the pr bit specifically disclaimed any gs investment in bitcoin [11:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22450 @ 0.0002621 = 5.8841 BTC [-] {2} [11:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30600 @ 0.00026713 = 8.1742 BTC [+] [11:25]
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pete_dushenski "As the only woman likely to run for president as a Republican, Carly Fiorina, who officially announced her candidacy Monday, is the GOP’s counterweight to Hillary Clinton." << o hey look what the dead dog of silicon valley dragged in. [11:54]
pete_dushenski somehow carla didn't end up mentioned in this article 2014/12/17/a-swimming-pool-of-idle-tears-wont-spare-the-affirmative-action-fallguy-shes-still-the-canary/ but she was definitely in mind when writing it. [11:56]
pete_dushenski hell, come to think of it, she inspired the whole damned piece. [11:56]
pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2014/12/17/a-swimming-pool-of-idle-tears-wont-spare-the-affirmative-action-fallguy-shes-still-the-canary/ link correction [11:56]
assbot A swimming pool of idle tears won’t spare the affirmative action fallguy. She’s still the canary. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1dI7TW9 ) [11:56]
pete_dushenski this exact same fembot v. fembot routine played out in alberta over the last 3 years. [11:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.0002672 = 10.1937 BTC [+] {2} [11:58]
pete_dushenski of course, neither fembot made it to this upcoming election, which just so happens to be tomorrow. [11:58]
pete_dushenski both were sacrificial lambs to appease sjwesque monkeys, and are now but dust. [11:59]
mircea_popescu jesus christ. [11:59]
mircea_popescu the woman that sunk hp. [11:59]
pete_dushenski or the woman that was thrown in the fire when it was clear that the building was going down and the firefighters were no longer of any use [12:00]
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pete_dushenski "Police in Texas killed two men who opened fire on a security officer outside a contest to draw cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, the Associated Press reported." << hahaha a muhammad drawing *contest* !! you just know that's going to lead to fireworks. [12:06]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 100 @ 0.017 = 1.7 BTC [+] [12:06]
mircea_popescu nah, not at all. she got hired as a great brilliant mind, came up with her brilliant great plan, some men grumbled but w/e, woman haters. it got implemented, it was a disaster, she was canned. [12:08]
mircea_popescu that's her story. [12:08]
mircea_popescu that she's even got the nerve to set foot outof the house is very reminiscent of that horvath character. [12:09]
pete_dushenski ah well in that case... burn the witch! [12:10]
pete_dushenski !s horvath [12:10]
assbot 6 results for 'horvath' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=horvath [12:10]
pete_dushenski ah, not the asian one then, the white one. [12:10]
pete_dushenski so hard to keep 'em all straight. [12:10]
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mats http://teslaclubsweden.se/test-drive-of-a-petrol-car/ [12:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00026178 = 10.89 BTC [-] [12:26]
mircea_popescu in "the glory of linux", chapter eleventy billion : find . -size 1258 finds nothing. find . -size 1267 finds nothing. find . -size -64 finds all the 1258 and 1267 byte files the previous two didn't find. [12:27]
mircea_popescu because not only is 1258 not equal to 1258, it is also smaller than 64. [12:28]
mircea_popescu (you hafta add c after the number if you mean bytes. because that's logically neither the default nor is anything wrong with ignoring b silently) [12:29]
pete_dushenski "Avoiding that one hundred kilo iron lump in the front of the car makes it so much easier to build safe cars." << yes, because road-going zeppelins are the pinnacle of automotive safety. lol. [12:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22165 @ 0.00026169 = 5.8004 BTC [-] {2} [12:29]
pete_dushenski still, some funny lines in there. good find mats ! [12:30]
pete_dushenski bbl [12:31]
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mircea_popescu "We asked if the constant sound of the engine -that frankly disturbed us from being able to listen to the radio- could be turned off. But it couldn’t. Very distracting." [12:37]
mircea_popescu lol fucktarded future is here. [12:37]
mircea_popescu " How much does it cost to fill up at home," << are these people fucking retarded ? [12:38]
mircea_popescu not like it's free at home. a liter of gasoline = a dollar = 3kWatt-hours = a dollar or w/e [12:40]
mircea_popescu "It is still unhealthy to breathe in – and smells very bad!" dude srsly, sweden is on euro 4. you can't even tell it exhausts something. [12:43]
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mats http://blog.jwhitham.org/2015/05/review-undodb-reversible-debugger.html [12:56]
assbot Jack Whitham: Review: UndoDB, a reversible debugger ... ( http://bit.ly/1zIaLMH ) [12:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 188842 @ 0.00025545 = 48.2397 BTC [-] {4} [13:29]
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funkenstein_ mircea_popescu: no matter what happens, it's still not going to be relevant to the human behaviour. <-- I may not be a monkey but I am a primate [13:41]
mircea_popescu sure. [13:41]
funkenstein_ anyway how are things asseteers? sorry i've been out of touch, a lot of logs to go through ;) [13:43]
mircea_popescu you will have to bear in mind that all hominid species other than us are extinct. this isn't some sort of direct lineage, as the layman often imagines. [13:44]
mircea_popescu monkeys are our (rather distant) cousins, not our uncles or something. [13:44]
funkenstein_ it's a good point, all species have evolved the same amount of time [13:45]
mircea_popescu moreover, the split is what, 10mn year old. [13:46]
funkenstein_ yet we are both frugivores who highly value sexuality beyond reproduction [13:46]
mircea_popescu it's unclear we're "frugivores". humans altogether seem carnivores. [13:47]
mircea_popescu facultative rather than obligate, but anyway [13:47]
funkenstein_ uh, no. without fruit we die quickly [13:47]
funkenstein_ without meat, we just live longer with fewer diseases [13:47]
funkenstein_ but lets not go down that route, we eat what we can and what we please and enjoy it :D [13:48]
scoopbot_revived News! Qntra (S.QNTR) April 2015 Statement URL: http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-april-2015-statement/ [13:48]
mircea_popescu jurov ^ (shares added) [13:48]
mircea_popescu anyway, re the 10mn years thing : the oldest split that created the rat (murines) as different from other rodents is about 13mn years ago. [13:49]
mircea_popescu buncha many kinds of rats spawned cca 3mn years ago. [13:50]
funkenstein_ wow, that is not that long ago. crocodiles didn't change much over that time. [13:50]
mircea_popescu same is true of humans, and like in the case of those rats (and most other mammals), the alternatives are extinct [13:50]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ that's kind-oif the point here. all sorts of fraud available to people trying to push pseudo-anthropology agendas. like for instance people don't readily understand just how huge the genetic and paleohistoric gap between us and chimps is. [13:51]
funkenstein_ it's hard to tell how rapidly we are changing in this context as well [13:51]
mircea_popescu myeah. [13:52]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ for the record, no fruit was part of the human diet for the longest time (until the persians actually invented fruit - which is exactly what they did) [13:53]
mircea_popescu just like maize was not part of the diet until the aztecs invented it. [13:54]
funkenstein_ so scurvy was epidemic? [13:54]
mircea_popescu no, because you can get vitamin c out of all sorts of other sources. [13:55]
mircea_popescu the problem with sailing was that they had no fresh stuff [13:55]
mircea_popescu and c vitamin oxidizes quickly [13:55]
mircea_popescu if you think about it - they could have used say dried figs, if it was ~fruitness~ specifically. [13:55]
mircea_popescu it wasn't. [13:55]
mircea_popescu but this aside, yes scurvy - and to a much larger degree pellagra - were endemic and major qol reducers up until very recently. one of the many "blessings" of agrarian settlement. [13:58]
mircea_popescu they couldn't really tell, between bubonic plague and malaria and everything else the "better" social arrangements blessed them with. [13:59]
fluffypony https://twitter.com/BitcoinErrorLog/status/595268180425183232 [14:02]
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fluffypony well ok then assbot [14:02]
fluffypony fuck you too [14:02]
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funkenstein_ in more current news, a small scoop offering http://frass.woodcoin.org/on-chumponomics/ [14:03]
assbot On Chumponomics | Free your Frass ... ( http://bit.ly/1ES0xt8 ) [14:03]
mircea_popescu fluffypony heh [14:05]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ you actually maintaining that blog ? [14:05]
mircea_popescu "Bob: Don't worry, we factored that into our budget after they upped Avagadro's number in China last year." [14:07]
mircea_popescu epic [14:07]
funkenstein_ barely :) [14:07]
funkenstein_ hehe [14:08]
mircea_popescu well if you intend to it can go into the list. but do you ? [14:08]
funkenstein_ yeah thanks [14:08]
mircea_popescu speaking of employers and induced if purely oral relevancy, http://40.media.tumblr.com/9a6686594091b93f65a8538168937c39/tumblr_mwryfhBxFh1rtyv3jo1_500.jpg [14:08]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELDXBl ) [14:08]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell williamdunne add http://frass.woodcoin.org/ to list plox [14:09]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:09]
assbot Free your Frass | Blogulations on Coinologies by Funkenstein ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELE1ks ) [14:09]
danielpbarron funkenstein_, "why not place the Earth at the exact center of a set of large mechanical spheres with seem to move at arbitrary unexplained speeds?" spheres which* seem [14:09]
funkenstein_ thanks [14:12]
mircea_popescu "can be point " "usually pinpoint" [14:13]
mircea_popescu but the idea that any fiat-oriented economics is essentially studying fart flow is sound, and yes it's all a matter of diffusion. [14:13]
mats 12:58:25 <+funkenstein_> in more current news, a small scoop offering ... << "ren ming bi" == "renminbi" [14:14]
mircea_popescu certainly your model is a lot better than anything keynes spit out, or hence. [14:14]
trinque "fart flow" << ahahaha [14:14]
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mircea_popescu hopefully i get to drink champagne off a chick's tits at the ceremony where an 80yo gets a major prize for this advance. [14:14]
mats additionally, the yuan is the unit, and renminbi is the currency, so it would not be correct to use that construction "every dollar, every renminbi, ..." [14:15]
mircea_popescu "Il a été mis en examen pour «viol par surprise» en mars dernier." [14:21]
mircea_popescu ahaha. bs. [14:21]
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davout "monkeys are our (rather distant) cousins, not our uncles or something." <<< "l'homme descend du singe, sauf pour certains, qui y remontent" [14:23]
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mircea_popescu lol [14:24]
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chatquack *gasp* [14:24]
mircea_popescu anyway, it's really about as nonsensical as "carbon causes global warming". men and apes have a common ancestor is all. [14:24]
mircea_popescu men and salamanders do too. [14:24]
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mircea_popescu davout anyway, nothing in that piece makes me think this is anything but a very sad drama, of an old man who is being rejected merely for being old, and is forced to live in a society where random woman (who is no spring chicken either, "une trentaine my foot") can send him to prison arbitrarily. [14:26]
mircea_popescu how about she is affixed to a whipping post in front of the town church for two weeks, for being a disgusting nag and a total stereotypist ? [14:27]
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mircea_popescu pretty fucking scandalous in any case. [14:27]
chatquack Hiya BingoBoingo, been a while [14:27]
BingoBoingo Yeah [14:27]
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funkenstein_ the guy would have done better using the money for legal fees at the local puterie [14:43]
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funkenstein_ but some people either think deception is part and parcel of courtship, or perhaps just get off on it. [14:45]
funkenstein_ anyway, i don't think they will be able to make lying about your age a violation. [14:46]
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pete_dushenski funkenstein_: "Lets just continue" << Let's* [14:48]
pete_dushenski btw, you should write more ! [14:48]
pete_dushenski "Lets talk fiat." << [14:49]
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pete_dushenski "Lets consider two extreme" << ok, now it's just a stylistic thing. [14:50]
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jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-05-2015#1119371 YES! can't wait till mircea experiences results of rt propaganda firsthand. that will be a sight to behold. [14:52]
funkenstein_ lol thanks, in music if you can repeat an error it becomes an improvisation. Not sure that applies here [14:52]
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pete_dushenski funkenstein_: writing is most certainly music. particularly if you have an older clickity-clackety keyboard like i do. [14:54]
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funkenstein_ to be honest before I started reading all y'all I didn't really thing the blog was a literary form [14:55]
pete_dushenski so much for assbot's reliability record eh. [14:55]
pete_dushenski funkenstein_: and now ? [14:56]
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kakobrekla fuck you im fixing stuff [14:56]
funkenstein_ the base fact that words were being strung together to convey meaning had somehow escaped me [14:56]
funkenstein_ now I am trying to catch up, but it seems the form itself is still somewhat fluid [14:57]
pete_dushenski kakobrekla: i'm yanking your chain :) [14:58]
pete_dushenski funkenstein_: well, as fluid as the author in any event. [14:58]
pete_dushenski that's what a blog is, really, an expression of one's ability to swish and swirl one's energies into new spaces. [14:59]
kakobrekla anyway i fixed the twitter parser - its not working now. all back to normal. [15:01]
BingoBoingo Sweet ty kakobrekla [15:02]
funkenstein_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HGKofrl7u4 <- pete_dushenski's keyboard [15:03]
assbot Roland Kirk-Clickety Clack - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKMRwS ) [15:03]
trinque http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/china-rates-its-own-citizens-including-online-behaviour~a3979668/ << chicom-WoT [15:03]
assbot China rates its own citizens - including online behaviour | Buitenland | de Volkskrant ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKMS3T ) [15:03]
trinque except not a WoT at all [15:03]
pete_dushenski funkenstein_: heh. clicketyCLACK. [15:04]
trinque seems when the US disintegrates it'll be chinese totalitarianism the world has to endure next [15:05]
pete_dushenski chicom thing's not a wot, no, but rather a bizarre quantification of fleisch [15:06]
pete_dushenski but how else do you manage a billion plus without reducing them to ones and zeroes ? [15:06]
thestringpuller pete_dushenski: "“More transactions means more bandwidth and CPU and storage cost, and more cost means increased centralization because fewer people will be able to afford that cost.” << isn't the rebuttal to that on your blog? [15:06]
thestringpuller per http://gavinandresen.ninja/time-to-roll-out-bigger-blocks [15:06]
mircea_popescu anyway, i don't think they will be able to make lying about your age a violation. << should be funny if they do... fill the jail up with 29 yo women. [15:06]
trinque pete_dushenski: I don't know that you manage them doing this either [15:07]
pete_dushenski thestringpuller: yup, http://www.contravex.com/2015/02/11/the-economics-of-sinking-20-mb-gavincoin-blocks/ and http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/07/how-a-bigger-blockchain-is-less-secure-and-why-block-size-aint-gonna-increase-any-time-soon/ [15:07]
mircea_popescu jurov you know, i don't read the current propaganda either. [15:07]
assbot The economics of sinking 20 MB Gavincoin blocks. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKN9UI ) [15:07]
assbot How A Bigger Blockchain Is Less Secure And Why Block Size Ain't Gonna Increase Any Time Soon | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKN9UK ) [15:07]
mircea_popescu i mean on occasion, to lol at the hopresident [15:08]
pete_dushenski trinque: 'at least we tried' [15:08]
trinque Without such a mechanism doing business in China is risky, she stresses, as about half of the signed contracts are not kept. 'Especially given the speed of the digital economy it is crucial that people can quickly verify each other's creditworthiness.' << wearing a deer-skin and calling yourself bambi [15:09]
trinque there needs to be a term for that [15:10]
trinque where the lie's the inversion of the truth [15:10]
mircea_popescu anyway i fixed the twitter parser - its not working now. all back to normal. << win [15:10]
pete_dushenski trinque: 'teaching the controversy' is a variant thereof [15:11]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [15:11]
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trinque pete_dushenski: yes it is [15:11]
mircea_popescu seems when the US disintegrates it'll be chinese totalitarianism the world has to endure next << the price for vanity is rape. that's what the derps in the sec thinking they;re above doing what i tell you to do are doing toi themselves ; that's what the derps thinking theyre "vcs" and not humbling coming in here are doing for themselves. [15:11]
ascii_field # sks cleandb Fatal error: exception Not_found [15:11]
mircea_popescu vanity means rape. [15:11]
ascii_field ^ mega-l0l [15:11]
ascii_field dyfunctional garbage sop [15:12]
mircea_popescu poor ascii_field and the shit im sticking him in ;/ [15:12]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: you're the worstbest thing that ever happened to ascii_field [15:13]
mircea_popescu lol [15:13]
ascii_field as per mircea_popescu's ancient observation, this one's an instance of 'it works on my box'ism [15:13]
ascii_field that is, the other folks - who probably all eat lunch together - got sks running [15:14]
mircea_popescu no but seroiusly, lemme tell you - he wrote that phuctor thing, it's like 500 lines, and so sanely laid out i could go in there and understand what it does and how to modify it within ~5 minutes. [15:14]
trinque mircea_popescu: indeed, seems they will try (and fail) to implement components of the republic in the style of massive government [15:14]
mircea_popescu people who have no idea how to code go by the "well it works". this guy actually codes by "well this is how it should go" [15:14]
mircea_popescu it's very subtle, the quality, but for this reason valuable. not aggresing sanity and common sense is worth a heck of a lot more than "making it work" [15:14]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: i think he might be a keeper ;) [15:15]
ascii_field i shat that thing out in ~1 day, too [15:15]
trinque "look we're going to centralize breathing. breathing is now banned; the central govt will breathe for you" [15:15]
ascii_field it isn't rocket surgery, this [15:15]
ascii_field fucking ancient greek tech [15:15]
ascii_field (euclid's gcd algo) [15:15]
pete_dushenski rocket surgery, no, surgical rocket, yes. [15:15]
ascii_field to be fair, the first time i wrote it, it sucked donkey cock (wrote gcd in python, it was dog-slow and O(n^2) ) [15:15]
ascii_field then rewrote with gmp (what gpg uses) [15:16]
pete_dushenski trinque: seems nuts to us, then again, there's a method to the chinese madness or else they wouldn't have ruled so much of the world for so much of modern history. [15:16]
pete_dushenski and produced so many of the world's greatest tech. [15:17]
scoopbot_revived News! American Green Deploys Two Bitcoin Capable Vending Machines URL: http://qntra.net/2015/05/american-green-deploys-two-bitcoin-capable-vending-machines/ [15:17]
mircea_popescu yes. the method is : people are idiots and if you're going to parent them, you gotta parent them. [15:17]
pete_dushenski *technologeeees. [15:17]
trinque I'll admit I'm about as far removed from being able to understand Chinese culture as possible [15:18]
mircea_popescu im no expert either. [15:19]
ascii_field pete_dushenski: actually china is a case study in failure to develop (invented, sure, but -develop-) various techs [15:19]
pete_dushenski no argument here. [15:19]
pete_dushenski seems the europeans have been far stronger at taking the baton and running with it. [15:19]
pete_dushenski but from whence the baton ? often china. [15:20]
pete_dushenski it's actually a hell of a team they form. [15:20]
mircea_popescu ascii_field that part is indisputable, but cui malo ? [15:20]
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ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-02-2014#515199 << related vintage mega-thread [15:27]
assbot Logged on 19-02-2014 04:48:55; asciilifeform: of, you could say, insufficiently high temperature in the simulated-annealing sense. [15:27]
ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-02-2014#515214 << mega-recommended b00k [15:28]
assbot Logged on 19-02-2014 04:52:44; asciilifeform: rec. reading re: china: 'The Rise of Early Modern Science: Islam, China and the West', T. E. Huff [15:28]
mats ^ http://faculty.washington.edu/snoegel/PDFs/reviews/11%20-%20Huff%201996.pdf [15:32]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKPUoO ) [15:32]
mats (review) [15:32]
ascii_field that review is a zoological specimen indeed [15:34]
ascii_field written by a real rotter of a liberast [15:34]
ascii_field (see last paragraphs!) [15:34]
ascii_field how dare we say that a culture sucked! [15:34]
mircea_popescu lol [15:35]
mircea_popescu ascii_field my question remains tho. so they fucked up science. indisputable. to whose detriment ? [15:35]
ascii_field own? [15:35]
mircea_popescu is it ? [15:35]
ascii_field they almost got bulldozed in '30s [15:35]
mircea_popescu almost only counts in special olympics. [15:35]
ascii_field only by sheer luck, there is still such a thing as chinese [15:35]
mircea_popescu only by sheer luck is there such a thing as the us, too. [15:36]
ascii_field aha [15:36]
ascii_field but, in my analysis, if it weren't for su's heavy diddling, the place would've been carved into manageable bantustans by usa post-war [15:37]
mircea_popescu maybe. [15:37]
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mircea_popescu alternatively : cixi's refusal of railroads did have the end effect of no railroads. but also, of silence. [15:37]
mircea_popescu suppose chinese monarch had refused... windows. apple. whatever. [15:39]
ascii_field forgo railroads - enjoy the silence - until better folks come along and lower your people into untermenschenrasty and build own rails [15:39]
mircea_popescu except... it didn't quite work like that. [15:40]
mircea_popescu some ills are apparently unavoidable, sure. but the "better folks" got raped meanwhile. [15:40]
pete_dushenski and now china can't afford silence ? [15:41]
mircea_popescu well certainly not anymore than japan can afford samurais. [15:41]
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mircea_popescu !up ascii_field [15:41]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes. [15:41]
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pete_dushenski so now the chinese are in the position of the europeans 60 years ago. [15:43]
pete_dushenski wherein they're overburdened with structural issues but no superior alternative is knocking down their door. [15:44]
pete_dushenski so they're at once the "better folks" and the untermenschen. [15:44]
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pete_dushenski how's that supposed to go ? [15:45]
mircea_popescu im not sure i follow this model. [15:45]
ascii_field pete_dushenski: this is actually the historic ru model of development, once termed 'colonialism with crown as the sole european' [15:45]
ascii_field see peter I, etc [15:45]
mircea_popescu it seems altogether probable that's what the chinese communist party envisages as ideal, and acts as if were the case. [15:46]
mircea_popescu course the model worked historically about as well as welfarism (aka popular democracy) [15:46]
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ascii_field goes kinda like this: 'my subjects are rubbish and only fit as cannot fodder or to be worked to death in the mines. possibly after x centuries of this, we can make some better ones.' [15:46]
ascii_field this is, in a way, an inescapable professional disease of cultures that 'got' industry in a hurry [15:47]
mircea_popescu the worst part of that being that it's actually true. [15:47]
ascii_field (ru, cn, jp, in) [15:47]
mircea_popescu us. [15:47]
ascii_field aha us [15:48]
mircea_popescu this is the inescapable human condition : most people are exactly rubbish [15:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62732 @ 0.00025421 = 15.9471 BTC [-] [15:48]
pete_dushenski which puts the enormity of the chinese quandary in perspective. [15:50]
ascii_field how culture answers this realization - determines, largely, whether you get zimbabwe or britain etc [15:50]
pete_dushenski how to manage a 130 billion lbs of rubbish ?? [15:51]
mircea_popescu the problem, of course, being that with globalization you really can't get options. it'll have to be pret a porter, one thing universally. [15:51]
ascii_field throw in sea, build artificial island! [15:51]
trinque pete_dushenski: probably by reducing them to insecure, servile rubbish [15:51]
pete_dushenski that servile part is key [15:52]
trinque this scheme of the govt giving you a report card seems intended towards precisely that [15:52]
pete_dushenski and already part of chinese culture [15:52]
mircea_popescu moreover, didn't japanese employees have to pass physicals at work ? [15:52]
pete_dushenski us got the insecure part, but without the servility. [15:52]
ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2014#761526 [15:52]
assbot Logged on 19-07-2014 03:41:36; asciilifeform: even ancient china, apparently, had 'cram schools.' (see miyazaki, 'china's examination hell' - neat little monograph on the subject) [15:52]
ascii_field ^ mega-b00k on subject [15:52]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: well, waistline tax. [15:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9762 @ 0.00026048 = 2.5428 BTC [+] [15:52]
mircea_popescu anyway, the general idea of people who did intellectual work with/in china is that the chinese folk, while broadly very servile, are utterly uncreative. [15:53]
ascii_field u.s. became the kind of inscrutable and thoroughly-dysfunctional beast we know today partly through the '50-'60s preoccupation with mindgames and 'programmatory' psychochumpatronics, where 'they must not realize they are servile' was the mandatory algo [15:54]
mircea_popescu whereas the western folk, while broadly useless, can at least be selected for sanity. [15:54]
mircea_popescu ascii_field kinda what makes people unhappy. any slave'll tell you, there's monumental fulfillment in submission. [15:54]
ascii_field uncreative << incidentally, it is not necessary to travel to china to witness this. u.s. academia today is solidly confucian (not merely ethnically, this - only in part - but in -operation-) [15:55]
ascii_field and virtually every physical sciences whateverthefuck in usa is solidly east asian in staffing [15:55]
mircea_popescu hey, they got a feeding hole, and are feeding. [15:57]
mircea_popescu confucianism IS very good at a well specified set of tasks. [15:57]
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ascii_field not even chumps, as such - many of these folks (i usedto work with'em) are laughing all the way to the bank, riding the thermodynamic waterfall between usd salary and cn cost of living [16:00]
ascii_field entire departments of u.s. universities have been converted into cn embassies of a kind [16:01]
ascii_field where everything is run on their traditional scheme and on their meatwot [16:02]
mats discussions on cn in here are always entertaining [16:03]
ascii_field http://carlyfiorina.org << mega-l0l [16:04]
assbot Carly Fiorina failed to register this domain. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlKzaB ) [16:04]
pete_dushenski ascii_field: how cn cost of living at us university ? [16:04]
ascii_field pete_dushenski: they mail the usd home [16:04]
pete_dushenski aha. [16:04]
mircea_popescu mats way off ? [16:04]
ascii_field where it buys cars, houses, fattens children (raised by grandparents) etc [16:04]
mircea_popescu ascii_field ftr, that's pretty much how eastern europe ran throughout the 90s too. [16:05]
ascii_field even now (where is the adult male population of latvia, and why ? etc ) [16:05]
mircea_popescu problem is meanwhile it retardified. [16:05]
mats mircea_popescu: meh. cn history is inscrutable, even to chinese. [16:06]
mircea_popescu fortunately the us is not large enough to retardify china, but i think we're gonna see some pretty spectacular purges down the road. [16:06]
mircea_popescu mats sort-of like trilema :D [16:06]
mats 14:48:49 <+mircea_popescu> anyway, the general idea of people who did intellectual work with/in china is that the chinese folk, while broadly very servile, are utterly uncreative. << i hear such things repeated all over the english speaking internet... might as well be a meme now [16:07]
mircea_popescu might be yeah [16:07]
pete_dushenski ascii_field: afaik adult male latvians are working in germany and britain. [16:08]
mircea_popescu as opposed to adolescent female latvians ? [16:08]
ascii_field ^ aha. [16:08]
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scoopbot_revived News! Your Own, Personal, Failure URL: http://thewhet.net/2015/your-own-personal-failure/ [16:10]
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mats most pre-modern recorded chinese history is exceedingly unreliable [16:13]
mats this unreliability is magnified the further back you go [16:13]
ascii_field even i knew this. [16:13]
ascii_field cn never really invented 'history' in the euro sense (of at least attempting de-mythologized recordkeeping) [16:14]
mircea_popescu mats word. [16:14]
mircea_popescu contemporary records are just as unreliable, it's just that meanwhile our friends in the us inhabituated us with this barbarism [16:14]
mircea_popescu ascii_field tbh, i suspect the euro notion of truth never really caught on, even in its own colonies. [16:19]
mircea_popescu judea bastardized it into some sort of idiotic mysticism, which is really just rehashing their pre-existing idiocies [16:19]
mircea_popescu new world did exactly the same thing, dressed its solipsism to look like euro truth. but it's still solipsism [16:20]
ascii_field obligatory: [16:20]
mircea_popescu to this day the principal value of latin america literature is its patent insanity in this sense. [16:20]
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ascii_field 'I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, ‘History stopped in 1936’, at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even [16:20]
ascii_field the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building [16:20]
ascii_field emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various ‘party lines’. ' (orwell, 'looking back on the spanish war') [16:20]
mircea_popescu i mean think about it, dialectics was a novel device early 1900s, impressive and all. [16:21]
mircea_popescu then again in early 2000s. [16:21]
mircea_popescu imagine a programming language in which bubblesort was periodically rediscovered with awe. [16:22]
mircea_popescu must be java-something, right ? [16:22]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised at how often this kind of thing -actually- plays out in programmaretarddom [16:22]
mircea_popescu i would not be surprised. i'm a manager, recall ? [16:23]
mircea_popescu much more keenly aware of how retarded engineers are than the contrary. [16:23]
ascii_field e.g., java folks 'discovered' garbage collection in mid 90s (after mccarthy invented it in 1960, but this 'does not count' because reasons.) [16:24]
mircea_popescu herpderp's rules or what was it. [16:25]
mircea_popescu "crocker" [16:25]
ascii_field l0l [16:25]
ascii_field crock'o'shit [16:25]
mircea_popescu "Blanton, Brad 1996, Radical Honesty: How To Transform Your Life By Telling The Truth" [16:26]
mircea_popescu hopefully he has a patent for this [16:26]
mircea_popescu "a novel method to live. not previously described in art." [16:26]
ascii_field 'radical nutrition: how to transform your life by not eating shit' [16:26]
ascii_field 'novel method of non-coprophagic alimentation' [16:27]
mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAYDiPizDIs [16:27]
assbot Monty Python - Theory on Brontosauruses by Anne Elk (Miss). - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlNHDd ) [16:27]
ascii_field i will add, for interested readers, that mccarthy's garbage collection (and other items) 'did not count' for the same precise reason why mpex 'does not count' to american muppets, and in general why the annoying kid who 'throws the curve' and sends entire classroom of imbeciles to the bottom of the sea, is decreed to 'not count.' [16:28]
trinque no one could possibly have been that far ahead of everyone else [16:30]
ascii_field no one could possibly (TM) [16:31]
ascii_field obligatory: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3203922895939197@naggum.net.html [16:32]
assbot Re: Engineering Envy [was: Re: CL and UML] - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlOqV7 ) [16:32]
ascii_field 'The problem is that "exploitation" happens only to people stupider (and consequently less informed) than the "exploiter". The root cause of this whole world problem is that some people are smarter than others. There are two basic solutions to this problem: Kill all the morons, or kill all the brains. If you look at how several political regimes have behaved throughout history, you might get the impression that they [16:32]
ascii_field are precisely adopting one of those two options. (Social democracy is a little more advanced: Kill everything outside 2 sigma.)' [16:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00027016 = 17.7495 BTC [+] [16:38]
jurov qntra shares distributed [16:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103350 @ 0.00027159 = 28.0688 BTC [+] {2} [16:48]
funkenstein_ How about educate the morons? [16:52]
ascii_field educate amoeba [16:52]
funkenstein_ Often the "exploiter" is just a moron that has been given a gun and a uniform. [16:53]
trinque you'd have to first have the power to compel the morons to learn [16:53]
ascii_field funkenstein_: who holds the rifle during deer season? man or deer? and why [16:53]
funkenstein_ actually they will not let you wear a police uniform if you score too well on standardized tests [16:55]
trinque cop isn't the exploiter in that scenario [16:55]
trinque the thing he works for is [16:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00027166 = 11.0837 BTC [+] [16:58]
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funkenstein_ hmm. . exploitation (n.) 1803, "productive working" of something, a positive word among those who used it first [17:02]
funkenstein_ Bad sense developed 1830s-50s, in part from influence of French socialist writings (especially Saint Simon), also perhaps influenced by use of the word in U.S. anti-slavery writing; [17:03]
pete_dushenski "Canada's Bombardier Inc and Egypt's Orascom Construction and Arab Contractors will build a $1.5 billion monorail near Cairo, Egypt's housing minister said.The 52 kilometre (32 mile) project is set to be completed by mid-2018 with funding from a 14-year loan" << monorail, monorail, MONORAIL! [17:04]
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ascii_field achtung, panzers! [17:14]
ascii_field http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/glibc-iconv-Implementation.html << wtf is this thing doing in bitcoind [17:14]
assbot The GNU C Library: glibc iconv Implementation ... ( http://bit.ly/1JMxYk6 ) [17:14]
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asciilifeform !up ascii_field [17:14]
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ascii_field 7f1d6731d000-7f1d67324000 r--s 00000000 08:14 14287177 /usr/lib64/gconv/gconv-modules.cache [17:15]
ascii_field mircea_popescu ^^^^ [17:15]
ascii_field in other news, https://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2015-3459 [17:16]
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BingoBoingo Fuck, telnet on an infusion pump??? [17:17]
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trinque BingoBoingo: hospital networks are required by law to be secure; I don't see the problem with this [17:28]
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BingoBoingo trinque: Putting aside the nonsensical "hospital" and "secure", home use of these things isn't uncommon [17:37]
ascii_field BingoBoingo: with ethernet ?! [17:37]
trinque BingoBoingo: just kidding [17:37]
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BingoBoingo ascii_field: Yes, "telemedicine" [17:37]
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BingoBoingo !up PFate [17:42]
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BingoBoingo 1up miaviator [17:42]
PFate thanks [17:42]
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mats vulns being released for Hospira equipment due to pending acquisition by Pfizer [17:46]
BingoBoingo Ah [17:47]
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jurov !up miaviator [17:47]
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jurov PFate: this is just for 30mins, so speak up if you want [17:48]
PFate i just got booted from conneciton, not sure i have much to talk about ATM [17:49]
mod6 <+ascii_field> http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/glibc-iconv-Implementation.html << wtf is this thing doing in bitcoind << is this another automagically linked in pos to glibc? [17:54]
assbot The GNU C Library: glibc iconv Implementation ... ( http://bit.ly/1EM1zFX ) [17:54]
ascii_field aha. [17:54]
mod6 ok gotcha. thanks for the heads up. [17:54]
ascii_field mod6: now, as far as i can tell, it doesn't jam up the attempted static build [17:55]
ascii_field but wtf is that thing even in there for. [17:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48800 @ 0.00027337 = 13.3405 BTC [+] {2} [17:57]
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mats http://www.dawn.com/news/1177304/pakistan-was-with-us-when-china-stood-isolated-xi-jinping [18:00]
assbot Pakistan was with us when China stood isolated: Xi Jinping - Home - DAWN.COM ... ( http://bit.ly/1EM2dmO ) [18:00]
mats http://www.firstpost.com/world/heres-why-indian-strategists-should-worry-about-chinas-46-billion-offering-to-pakistan-2205216.html [18:00]
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* lobbes got his new 'training laptop' installed with debian over the weekend. [18:10]
lobbes Now to change the init to something other than systemd (for reasons I don't fully grok yet, other than it is being pushed pretty aggressively, from what I gather) [18:11]
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lobbes and the whole 'roll up all the things into one thing' [18:12]
lobbes which seems to make sense as against what makes linux strong [18:12]
lobbes I've much to learn [18:12]
lobbes so far, it feels noticeably faster than the windows 8.1 that came with the machine (toy) [18:14]
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lobbes !up ascii_field [18:16]
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lobbes !up mats [18:16]
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scoopbot_revived News! Mining Difficulty Increases, Albeit By A Small Amount URL: http://qntra.net/2015/05/mining-difficulty-increases-albeit-by-a-small-amount/ [18:18]
mats http://ninanews.com/Website/News_Details.aspx?nekwQc6WuB41yVcAbB4fbA%253d%253d << heh. 'we dun wanna fite nemore' [18:31]
assbot National Iraqi News Agency - NINA [18:31]
ascii_field achtung, panzers! [18:34]
ascii_field http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-May/000088.html [18:34]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1E1SKoK ) [18:34]
ascii_field [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full Orphanage Thermonuke. [18:34]
ascii_field current height == 129871 [18:34]
ascii_field mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, mod6, et al ^^^^^ [18:37]
ascii_field memory footprint climbs very, very slowly. as far as i can tell, thus far, this is 100% due to fragging [18:38]
ascii_field (as previously mentioned) [18:38]
ascii_field also the thing syncs ludicrously quickly. [18:38]
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BingoBoingo !up ascii_field [18:49]
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BingoBoingo !up mats [18:49]
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ascii_field 'To honour, while you strike him down, / The foe that comes with fearless eyes; / To count the life of battle good, / And dear the land that gave you birth, / And dearer yet the brotherhood / That binds the brave of all the earth.' (TM) (R) [18:51]
ascii_field which one of you folks will be the brave man, who tests this one. [18:51]
ben_vulpes wowee, ascii_field [18:52]
ben_vulpes field-testing's the easy part (sort of) [18:52]
ben_vulpes pulling the pin under fire much less so [18:52]
ascii_field testing is just a cheat-heuristic for finding structural problems [18:53]
ascii_field if real hero - go straight to reading [18:53]
ascii_field note that this one isn't a backport from anyone [18:53]
ascii_field it is 95% amputation [18:53]
ascii_field incidentally, memory footprint pegs out at ~120M [18:54]
ascii_field again strongly suggesting fragging [18:54]
ascii_field (why? exercise for the alert reader. if no one gets, i will explain at some point) [18:55]
ascii_field current blockheight == 146226 [18:55]
mircea_popescu ascii_field o srsly ? [18:55]
ascii_field aha. [18:55]
mircea_popescu As of April 30, 2015, the new price for .ws domains has been increased to [18:57]
mircea_popescu $18.98 per year. [18:57]
mircea_popescu heh. [18:57]
ascii_field again, this is a very preliminary thing. i strongly encourage others to attempt replication. [18:57]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: http://www.original-political-cartoon.com/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/2014/09/24/zeccopy.jpg__700x591_q85_crop_upscale.jpg << obligatory [18:58]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IHfEr8 ) [18:58]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-05-2015#1119821 << "i have a cure for quadriplegics : alcohol rubs!" [19:01]
assbot Logged on 04-05-2015 19:47:29; funkenstein_: How about educate the morons? [19:01]
mircea_popescu "they're invigorating, to the people who can walk ; selling alcohol helps the echonomy". [19:01]
mircea_popescu ascii_field it occurs to me that the word funkenstein_ was looking for, to describe the economy of chumps (whose coin is the bezzlar) would be... echonomy. [19:02]
mircea_popescu sort-of works on the infinite mirrors principle. [19:02]
ascii_field l0l! [19:03]
ascii_field yes. [19:03]
mircea_popescu "All the benefits of loadable modules are available in the GNU C Library implementation. This is especially appealing since the interface is well documented (see below), and it, therefore, is easy to write new conversion modules." [19:04]
mircea_popescu gotta love 'em. [19:04]
mircea_popescu anyway, what would it be doing in bitcoin. waiting for when libnss is yanked out, to kick in. [19:04]
ascii_field many interesting observations could be written re: the echonomy; taxonomy of chumps (free-range vs corralled, etc.) and the like [19:04]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: aha. the spittoon is brim-full and rancid [19:05]
mircea_popescu maybe once we get 100k pounds a year to study our memories of collegiate dentistry. [19:05]
mircea_popescu "The drawback of using loadable objects is not a problem in the GNU C Library, at least on ELF systems. Since the library is able to load shared objects even in statically linked binaries, static linking need not be forbidden in case one wants to use iconv." [19:05]
mircea_popescu and this is on www.gnu.org/ [19:05]
ascii_field 'we will slip the cock in with such grease that you will never notice' [19:05]
ascii_field is the equation here. [19:05]
* ascii_field knew that mircea_popescu's antennae would stand up from reading that thing [19:06]
mircea_popescu and all this so that idiots can use their idiot alphabets. [19:06]
mircea_popescu fuck you, everyone. 27 letters or go back to your fucking yurt. [19:06]
ascii_field not even. [19:07]
mircea_popescu computers are for humans not for whatever the fuck special needs monkeys use "diacritics" [19:07]
ascii_field it is so that idiots can use 1,001 incompatible encodings for their hieroglyphs [19:07]
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ascii_field (recall 'mule' debacle in emacs ? that almost killed it as a living project ?) [19:07]
mircea_popescu myeah [19:08]
ascii_field the real mega-question is why it is in bitcoin [19:08]
mircea_popescu because it was there. [19:08]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-05-2015#1119852 << hehe ayup [19:09]
assbot Logged on 04-05-2015 20:41:33; mats: vulns being released for Hospira equipment due to pending acquisition by Pfizer [19:09]
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ascii_field ben_vulpes: tried your rng yet ? [19:11]
cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-05-2015#1119553 <<< speaking of crocodiles, welcome to australia http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-04/crocodile-captured-in-daly-watersjpg/6443998 [19:16]
assbot Logged on 04-05-2015 16:45:26; funkenstein_: wow, that is not that long ago. crocodiles didn't change much over that time. [19:16]
assbot Crocodile captured at Daly Waters - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) ... ( http://bit.ly/1IHicoX ) [19:16]
mircea_popescu mats meh, the entire china pakistan thing seems overstated. [19:17]
ascii_field still syncing [19:17]
ascii_field 151566 [19:17]
mircea_popescu ascii_field didja put instrumentation in place to measure speed or bw ? [19:18]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: i have a clock on the wall [19:19]
ascii_field that so far is the instrument [19:19]
ascii_field this was 10 min of work, srsly [19:19]
mircea_popescu aha ok [19:19]
mircea_popescu myeah reading the patch now [19:19]
ascii_field tonight i'ma valgrind it [19:19]
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mircea_popescu ascii_field would help if you can also measure bw used/block [19:20]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [19:21]
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ascii_field if any part of the patch does not make immediate sense, ask now - i'm about to get into a wheeled coffin for a few hrs [19:21]
ascii_field mircea_popescu is wondering about wasted bw (of which there is megatonnes) ? [19:21]
mircea_popescu seems pretty clear. plus as davout would say, it's quicker. [19:21]
mircea_popescu anyway, i don't perceive what the great danger is here. [19:21]
mircea_popescu it doth not alter verification or anything [19:22]
ascii_field air filter convo from c3 [19:22]
ascii_field it raised my suspicions by working 'too well' [19:22]
mircea_popescu and yes i wonder about bw. not such megatonnes. [19:22]
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ascii_field a block gets fetched, here, potentially infinitely many times [19:23]
mats mircea_popescu: i agree. US strategists, on the other hand, should be concerned [19:23]
mircea_popescu definitely. [19:23]
mircea_popescu which is why the piece howls like so. "india should be concerned about how we pooped our pants" [19:23]
ascii_field every time someone spews out a bastard, we end up snarfing preceding blocks [19:23]
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ascii_field but it really cooks, in terms of apparent performance on the runway [19:24]
mircea_popescu see past 300k. [19:25]
ascii_field the purpose of this patch, incidentally, was not to cure what ails us, but to make it possible to intelligently study the fragging [19:25]
mircea_popescu most everyone has low index blocks sorted anyway [19:25]
mircea_popescu (there's a passive gossip-y sort of sorting that occurs as time goes by, because new clients join and so the "overall" blockchain is ever more sorted in early blocks as time goes by) [19:26]
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ascii_field mega-fraggage [19:29]
ascii_field ~130MB [19:29]
ascii_field and, tell-tale sign, non-monotonic [19:30]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47550 @ 0.00027008 = 12.8423 BTC [-] {2} [19:48]
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cazalla ;;later tell Vexual your boy zhenya http://www.afr.com/technology/bitcoin-trader-digital-cc-aims-to-become-the-uber-of-money-transfers-20150504-1mxo0j [19:54]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:54]
assbot Bitcoin trader Digital CC aims to become the Uber of money transfers | afr.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1R7JTeg ) [19:54]
trinque "the uber of X" jesus christ [19:59]
trinque that's the new "facebook of X" [19:59]
trinque "er uh... you know how Uber like, disrupted... something? yeah we want to disrupt too" [20:00]
trinque *activate main disrupter array* [20:00]
trinque meanwhile somewhere in a dark, dusty WU cubicle, "Sir! You wont believe this but... someone's *disrupting* us!" [20:00]
jurov on second thought, the simile is even more funny [20:04]
jurov because it means, they are going to recruit gobs of chumps to do their dirty work cheaply [20:04]
* assbot gives voice to williamdunne [20:05]
williamdunne Isn't the 'Uber of' thing about getting your users to supply the infrastructure rather than getting the expensive assets yourself? [20:06]
williamdunne i.e AirBNB has no property [20:07]
mircea_popescu at great coist to themselves. [20:07]
williamdunne Uber has no cars [20:07]
mircea_popescu airbnb is even funnier, the fine for being part of it is what, 4-5k in ny ? [20:07]
williamdunne Everything the USG does is funny [20:07]
trinque sure, that's been the whole social web scam since forever [20:07]
williamdunne I don't see it as a scam, maybe you can change my mind, but it seems like a pretty efficient way to do things [20:08]
mircea_popescu i fail to see the difference between "here's how to cook if you have hardwood floors" and "here's how to make 30 bux (out of which we take half) by taking on 5k liability" [20:08]
williamdunne I've not used Uber before, but I have used AirBNB and it was cheaper than a premier Inn but in a really nice house in the centre of London [20:08]
williamdunne Room was clean [20:08]
williamdunne Food was good [20:08]
williamdunne etc [20:08]
williamdunne People said they've enjoyed doing it and earn more than just renting out the room [20:08]
williamdunne win/win/win, no? [20:08]
mircea_popescu i also had nice experiences with crack whores. still not much of a business model. [20:09]
williamdunne Well sure, I wouldn't invest in an AirBNB hotel [20:09]
williamdunne But I don't think that is the point [20:09]
williamdunne Its meant to be renting spare rooms not a dedicated hotel, no? [20:10]
williamdunne Sorta the point [20:10]
mircea_popescu it's not legal to rent rooms in places not deidcated for this purpose. [20:10]
mircea_popescu for an entire array of perfectly sound reasons [20:10]
williamdunne Since when was anyone here interested in what is legal? [20:10]
trinque lol who is this kid [20:10]
mircea_popescu mkay. it's nonsensical to rent rooms in places not dedicated for this purpose. [20:10]
mircea_popescu sort-of like impromptu dentistry and hobbist airplane piloting, this. [20:11]
mircea_popescu if it works great and if it blows up... whoops. [20:12]
mircea_popescu nobody could have foreseen a blow-up, we're success-oriented these days [20:12]
* trinque notes that he can't yet find profit numbers for airbnb [20:12]
mircea_popescu trinque from what i hear they're about to get litigated into the ground. [20:12]
mats they're not publicly traded [20:13]
mircea_popescu unlike musk, they're not actually somebody. hard to put up a fight. even with graham's efforts. [20:13]
williamdunne I dunno, maybe I'm missing something but it seems like a pretty solid alternative for short stays. Wouldn't use it for a holiday but, a weekend in a new city? Sure. [20:14]
williamdunne Seems like a lot more can go wrong with amateur dentistry than amateur room-renting [20:14]
williamdunne Just like amateur-programming, and amateur-boxing rarely result in death [20:15]
williamdunne Well [20:15]
williamdunne Maybe amateur boxing not so much [20:15]
trinque first guest leaves ass crabs in the bed for the next guest [20:15]
trinque who's liable when #2 sues [20:15]
trinque right answer is goddamn everyone gets sued, including airbnb [20:15]
williamdunne Renter you would hope, for not cleaning the sheets [20:15]
williamdunne Landlord? [20:15]
williamdunne Doesn't sound right [20:15]
trinque so they're going to get dragged into fight after fight, yet they're delegating control over the situation to just about anyone [20:16]
trinque so really in intending to minimize their risk they've maximized it [20:16]
trinque or so I read [20:16]
trinque s/ass crabs/rapist in closet/ or whatever [20:16]
mats why would you possibly want to use airbnb [20:17]
mats why not just invite a homeless person into my home and let him stay there for a few days [20:17]
mats and then move back in [20:17]
trinque mats: because wisdom of crowds == disruption [20:18]
mats same filthy experience [20:18]
trinque and we uh, want to disrupt [20:18]
mod6 <+ascii_field> [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full Orphanage Thermonuke. << Just saw this on the train & read patch. Great work! [20:18]
mod6 <+ascii_field> 'we will slip the cock in with such grease that you will never notice' << heheh, yeah pretty much. [20:18]
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trinque mod6: right, and everyone on both ends of the transaction will ultimately try to blame their reputation system or whatever didn't work [20:19]
mats i'd rather be slapped in the face with half a dozen cocks than sleep in a mystery airbnb bed [20:19]
williamdunne trinque: Doesn't look like there has been too much going wrong, a few cases of houses being vandalized, or customers being dickholes [20:19]
williamdunne http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbnb#Incidents_and_renters.27_security [20:19]
assbot Airbnb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GW2ggw ) [20:19]
williamdunne mats: How do you deal with hotels? [20:19]
trinque hotels are places which deal with this shit every day [20:20]
trinque and are a good hotel to the extent that they do that well [20:20]
trinque when I was a teenager I did IT monkey stuff for a Hilton [20:20]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> and yes i wonder about bw. not such megatonnes. << this was the thought that came to my mind too. [20:20]
trinque poor hotel cleaning ladies dealt with actual human shit far more often than I'd have expected [20:20]
trinque or god knows what other kinds of mess in the rooms [20:20]
* shesek (~shesek@77.125.87.8) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:21]
jurov !up shesek [20:21]
* assbot gives voice to shesek [20:21]
mod6 so, I have that deb6 aws env still... I used to use MRTG, but now I guess this 'RRD' thing is all the rage. I know for sure that I can test mem on a 1s interval with vmstat and capture that with `script`. I'd really like to compare the network traf of full sync with the patch, and without. [20:22]
mod6 So anyway, maybe I can somehow graph these things. Meanwhile, I'm still wrestling with gentoo. [20:23]
trinque end-cap on the thread is that this trend of Ubering seems to be about trying to dissolve responsibility [20:23]
trinque that's the "innovation" [20:23]
mod6 got an AMI built from stage3 with a new kernel, which promptly kernel panic'd when I used said AMI to provision a new system [20:23]
mod6 then, I tried the same thing without a new kernel, with the same result. I'm gonna try one more time with kernel and see if I get any different results. [20:24]
trinque "We could deploy a carnival so much more quickly if we didn't bother with safety precautions, and instead let each guest assemble his piece of the rides, and signing off that he is personally liable for that part." [20:24]
mod6 I don't think I will... so not really sure where to go on that. trinque, I think you're gonna have to help me build this thing; if you can. [20:24]
trinque ok [20:25]
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trinque mod6: I have my own needs for a nicely scripted gentoo-ec2 deployer [20:25]
trinque might build one this week [20:25]
jurov what kind of panic? [20:25]
mod6 sec... [20:25]
mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-default-kernel.txt [20:26]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GWyb3b ) [20:26]
trinque first thought is whether that's actually an ext4 volume [20:27]
mod6 (this error is from the build where I /didn't/ build a new kernel) [20:27]
trinque and you only have the ext3 support turned on [20:27]
mod6 i don't have evidence to support this claim: i'm very sure everything was setup for ext4 [20:28]
trinque mod6: post the .config [20:28]
mod6 <+mod6> (this error is from the build where I /didn't/ build a new kernel) << no new kernel, no .config [20:29]
trinque well what kernel is it though [20:29]
trinque you just ran genkernel all ? [20:29]
mod6 now, the new one I'm trying; that one has a .config -- that's actually the last thing I just did in the steps, config'd the kern, build the kern. now need to make the AMI and try it. [20:29]
mod6 i didn't do anything special in that case. tbh, didn't know I had to, or even what to do, if anything. [20:30]
mod6 There was some talk that one wouldn't/shouldn't need to change kernels anyway for AWS. [20:30]
trinque depends on whether it's hvm or pvm [20:30]
mod6 it's all paravirtual [20:30]
mod6 anyway, i'll give an update in here after this next attempt with a new kernel. [20:31]
trinque that would probably be it; you need the xen turds turned on in the kernel in that case [20:31]
mod6 I know for sure I did that the first time... didn't seem to help. however, the first attempt, I'm not positive that I didn't somehow screw-up the fstab. [20:32]
trinque that could also be it [20:32]
mod6 the instructions that you posted were slightly off from what is reality on these environments. (perhaps just a bit old) [20:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13148 @ 0.00027434 = 3.607 BTC [+] [20:32]
mod6 i.e.: none /syssysfs defaults 0 0 [20:32]
mod6 sysysfs isn't a thing [20:32]
mod6 it's supposed to be this, I'm pretty sure: [20:33]
mod6 none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0 [20:33]
trinque yeah probably old; I didn't use a write-up [20:33]
mod6 fffff [20:33]
mod6 sorry, paste'd 2x [20:33]
mod6 no worries, now when I check it with `mount -a`, it all seems happy [20:33]
mod6 maybe the document just didn't space the /sys & sysfs properly. [20:34]
mod6 *shrug* [20:34]
mod6 anyway, moving on. I'll get the test in motion for asciilifeform's new patch. [20:34]
trinque that error does seem to indicate it trying to mount an ext4 as ext3 [20:34]
trinque so says my quick googling [20:34]
mod6 The first attemp's error might have... I only got a glimpse of it once though, it never let me look at the System log again for some dumb reason. [20:35]
mod6 Anyway, no worries, I was moving fast. Figured I was just stupid. [20:35]
trinque cool. dunno when I'll make my auto-deployer thing, but I'll let you know if that materializes [20:36]
mod6 np. i was more hoping if this 3rd attempt fails, you could watch over my shoulder to make sure I don't make any retarded moves. [20:36]
mod6 (on 4th attempt) [20:37]
trinque sure, and I have a working kernel config handy if you want that [20:37]
mod6 that may help too. i'll let you know how it goes. much appreciated. [20:37]
trinque sounds good [20:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29762 @ 0.00027434 = 8.1649 BTC [+] [20:40]
jurov trinque: i'm interested, too. i did it once but did not made a script from it [20:44]
trinque k [20:45]
jurov unrelated: if any poor soul is trying btrfs, use kernel >=3.19.5 . so far much better [20:46]
trinque how stable is that these days? [20:47]
trinque wiki says "under heavy development" [20:47]
jurov disk format is stable. runtime not there yet [20:48]
jurov i expounded on that yest [20:49]
trinque I'll check teh logs [20:50]
* assbot removes voice from shesek [20:51]
jurov could be very useful to roll back corrupted bitcoin database.. if i had snapshotting set up [20:54]
trinque seems nice for servers in general too, bad deploy, go back to previous snapshot [20:55]
jurov *if* you have spare disk space. otherwise, watch out [20:56]
mircea_popescu why would you possibly want to use airbnb << it's really a sort of swinger's club for people that are not really into swinging. [21:03]
mircea_popescu williamdunne << wikipedia may not be the best source of information [21:04]
mircea_popescu especially for anything not to do with star wars. [21:04]
mircea_popescu mod6> So anyway, maybe I can somehow graph these things. Meanwhile, I'm still wrestling with gentoo. << you hear that alf ? [21:05]
mircea_popescu and i thought i was retarded. [21:05]
mircea_popescu trinque that's the "innovation" << exactly. and inasmuch as the us tort system is insane, this is both unavoidable and in a sense useful. but this doesn't mean uber makes any sense, anymore than shaving head in women makes sense. "but she's got lice" "well in THAT case" [21:06]
trinque hah indeed [21:07]
trinque mircea_popescu: speaking of women, I've mused before about a service that handles all financial and bureaucratic considerations for an average american [21:08]
trinque you give it your paychecks, it makes sure your taxes are done, all that, and gives you an allowance [21:09]
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mircea_popescu tits app ? [21:14]
mircea_popescu i imagine Pierre_Rochard 's thing is actulaly very close to that. prolly bestwork as a wrapper on it [21:14]
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trinque mircea_popescu: looks interesting; this is for maintaining and publishing your books? [21:25]
trinque looks like as a business, but similar needs [21:25]
mircea_popescu you mean Pierre_Rochard s thing ? [21:25]
trinque yeah [21:25]
* assbot gives voice to Pierre_Rochard [21:25]
Pierre_Rochard mircea_popescu: trinque yup that’s right up my alley [21:26]
mircea_popescu i dunno, he's working on it. but basically yeah, should be a web/bitcoin interface for accounting' [21:26]
Pierre_Rochard I have a “personal finance” chart of accounts and a “service business” chart of accounts, they’re CSVs that are easy to customize [21:26]
trinque Pierre_Rochard: very cool; I think americans would pay for a managed version of this [21:27]
trinque nobody wants to do their damn taxes, or pay their own rent [21:27]
trinque they just want to be given an allowance by dad after everything's handled [21:27]
trinque I'm not sure there's enough allowance left to allow sufficient margin for the accounting service [21:28]
trinque americans are after all mostly poor [21:28]
mircea_popescu should be a very interesting world once the us is poor and east/central asia ric [21:28]
Pierre_Rochard trinque: agreed, I’m thinking I’ll have a source code subscription for the hacker types, and a hosted treasury concierge for the lazy/busy [21:28]
trinque Pierre_Rochard: right on [21:28]
Pierre_Rochard yeah this isn’t for poor people [21:28]
Pierre_Rochard poor people don’t have money problems, they have lack of money problems [21:28]
trinque !b 2 [21:28]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/09J2KJ0.txt ) [21:28]
mircea_popescu in other news, shoe problems http://40.media.tumblr.com/996bce3d7cadf68f3dcb6cbca5d36ca5/tumblr_n1kzmtoDiA1sx2zfgo4_r1_1280.jpg [21:29]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwg2Y ) [21:29]
Pierre_Rochard asians understand the value of good accounting, went to school with many of them [21:29]
mod6 http://dpaste.com/1NHSMPB.txt << patched into bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE, sig looks good, although the hash's didn't match what the filename was changed to on btc-dev ml [21:30]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwkjk ) [21:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00026691 = 8.3276 BTC [-] {2} [21:30]
mircea_popescu mod6 iof the hashes don't match you shouldn't generall merge [21:30]
mircea_popescu tho i suppose this one's small enough to read [21:30]
mod6 i wonder if I did something wrong... jurov? [21:31]
trinque also mod6 output of a recent genkernel build http://dpaste.com/00XCYJR.txt [21:31]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwA1W ) [21:31]
trinque maybe relevant to your barf message [21:31]
mod6 these are the commands I ran: [21:32]
mod6 curl -s http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150504/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke_2d219fdd1a0da960be38797566e9c0820df11ce6.patch -o asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch [21:32]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwKX6 ) [21:32]
mod6 curl -s http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150504/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke_6f320afb2423a2892d89e855829e3915c8b7a170.patch.sig -o asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch.sig [21:32]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuwM14 ) [21:32]
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mod6 mircea_popescu: anyway, yeah, agreed. I did look it over, and is matching from website as far as I can tell. & byte count is the same. [21:36]
mod6 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4007 May 5 00:19 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch [21:37]
mod6 *shrug* [21:37]
mod6 ... taking gentoo snapshot for 3rd AMI attempt. [21:38]
danielpbarron mod6, http://danielpbarron.com/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.txt [21:38]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuxRG3 ) [21:38]
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mod6 yep, got that too... but check the sha256's of the dl'd patch files, see if they match the checksums that the ml inserted into the file name. [21:39]
mod6 if not, see if they came out same as mine from my dpaste [21:40]
danielpbarron same as yours [21:42]
mod6 s/files/and sig files/ [21:42]
danielpbarron i'm not sure it's supposed to come out the same as the thing that gets shoved into the filename [21:42]
mod6 ok gotcha. just need some clairification from jurov on that. [21:42]
danielpbarron it should match whatever hash ascii referenced in his signed email message though [21:42]
mod6 i thought it /was/ supposed to be the same. but, maybe im just derp derperton tonight. [21:42]
mod6 The hash referenced inthe email was for the bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE.tar.gz tarball, which is correct. [21:43]
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danielpbarron the patch.sig is by ascii's key, so it shouldn't matter what it hashes to or what btc-dev says [21:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MG] 50000 @ 0.00009 = 4.5 BTC [-] [21:44]
mod6 yeah, shoudn't being the key word there; in my mind, it certainly should match. [21:44]
mod6 otherwise, why do it? [21:44]
mod6 what purpose would it serve? [21:45]
danielpbarron i do not know [21:45]
mod6 :] [21:45]
danielpbarron to make it a pain in the ass to verify any of this stuff; to set the bar high so as to keep out the children [21:46]
mod6 sweet, new ami complete. [21:47]
* mod6 builds new instance with AMI [21:47]
danielpbarron http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev The system will rename the patch and add unique identifier (SHA-1 hash of the contents) to the filename, both in the outgoing email and in the archives. Any additional signatures must refer to this received filename including the hash. [21:52]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuzXG7 ) [21:52]
danielpbarron there's yer answer: it's sha1; not sha256 [21:53]
danielpbarron checks out on my end [21:53]
mod6 ah sha1, see, derp derperton [21:54]
mod6 mine matches just fine too. thx for digging that up. [21:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19450 @ 0.00026447 = 5.1439 BTC [-] [21:54]
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mod6 meanwhile in gentoo land, kernel panic'd again: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-custom-kernel_panic3.txt [21:56]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuAS9t ) [21:56]
mod6 i'll post my build steps. [21:57]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [21:57]
decimation http://www.itworld.com/article/2917587/open-source-tools/singapores-prime-minister-shares-his-c-sudoku-solver-code.html < imagine a us politician releasing a C++ sudoku solver [21:58]
assbot Singapore’s prime minister shares his C++ Sudoku solver code | ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuBbBe ) [21:58]
trinque not bad [22:00]
mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/build-stage3-notes.txt << build notes [22:05]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuCjon ) [22:05]
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mod6 http://thebitcoin.foundation/kernel-config-20150503 << kernel config [22:06]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuCosg ) [22:06]
trinque nicely done [22:07]
trinque mod6: boots? [22:07]
mod6 no fails 1/2 checks, kernel panic'd [22:08]
trinque ah [22:09]
mod6 check the last 3 lines of this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-custom-kernel_panic3.txt [22:09]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuCMXH ) [22:09]
trinque did you try that rootfstype=ext4 ? [22:09]
trinque on the kernel command line [22:09]
mod6 that's for the kernel config right? [22:09]
mod6 i had build this kernel yesterday. i don't see anything about "ROOTSTYPE" in my config that I used... (posted above) [22:10]
mod6 i guess I can rebuild again and stick that in there. [22:11]
trinque for the kernel boot parameters provided by the bootloader, might be via this thing https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/UserProvidedKernels.html [22:11]
assbot PV-GRUB - Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuDcND ) [22:11]
mod6 oh huh. [22:13]
mod6 i thought that one thing said that I didn't need Grub unless i was using hvm or whatever. [22:13]
mod6 i try it with that... [22:14]
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asciilifeform mod6: you have an ext4 rootfs dontcha. [22:19]
asciilifeform mod6: either 1) don't or 2) build ext4 into the kernel [22:19]
trinque (and not as a module) [22:20]
asciilifeform aha [22:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46345 @ 0.00026111 = 12.1011 BTC [-] {2} [22:23]
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danielpbarron https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34uu02/why_increasing_the_max_block_size_is_urgent_gavin/cqycy4h "Rather, the only push you see against larger blocks come from strong advocates of personal autonomy and decenteralization, like Peter Todd; or the MPOE crowd (regardless of what you might think about them, they wouldn't be any to bend to commercial or government interests)." [22:24]
assbot nullc comments on Why increasing the max block size is urgent | Gavin Andresen ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuFigz ) [22:24]
* asciilifeform started valgrindized run of thermonuked-orphanage tester [22:24]
asciilifeform is anyone still having checksum problems ? [22:25]
asciilifeform tho i suppose this one's small enough to read << they should ALL be small enough to read. [22:26]
asciilifeform no exceptions. [22:26]
asciilifeform meanwhile in gentoo land, kernel panic'd again << that's not a real kernel panic, again. that is a box that can't read its rootfs [22:30]
asciilifeform there's yer answer: it's sha1 << why do we have sha1 anywhere [22:30]
asciilifeform sha512(asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch) == 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78 [22:31]
asciilifeform please say if you got something else. [22:32]
asciilifeform jurov: can we have less mutilation (file names?) plz ? [22:32]
asciilifeform i much prefer systems where what i put in, is what ends up coming out. [22:32]
asciilifeform unless explicitly asked otherwise. [22:32]
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asciilifeform airbnb is even funnier, the fine for being part of it is what, 4-5k in ny ? << 'airbnb', 'uber', etc. fill a direly urgent market niche in usa - 'orcish' favour-style services for folks with no friends. it would take a very strong chance of being busted, for folks to quit using these. (consider what is the penalty for, e.g., smoking weed - does it deter?) [22:36]
danielpbarron !up livegnik [22:36]
* assbot gives voice to livegnik [22:36]
livegnik Thank you Daniel! Hi everyone. [22:36]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu> sort-of like impromptu dentistry << big business in the turd world (of which usa is properly considered - a part) [22:37]
livegnik I'm Tim Pastoor, co-founder of Identifi. I'm just the business developer who's working on the project. Sirius is the real dev in there. [22:37]
mod6 ok bitcoin-v0_5_3_1 + Orphanage Nuke is running with `nmon -f -s3` & `vmstat 1`, so we should have some good metrics when complete. [22:37]
danielpbarron "CEO & Co-Founder of Identifi -- Collaborating on an Open Source Protocol for Sending Trust over the Internet; Advancing the Wild Wild Web into a Web of Trust." [22:37]
* asciilifeform actually used 'uber' for the first - and so far, only time - getting back from airport after c3 [22:38]
livegnik I didn't know in what other way to describe it in ~140 characters. Open for suggestions / feedback anytime :) [22:38]
mod6 asciilifeform: [22:38]
mod6 # sha512sum asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch [22:38]
mod6 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch [22:38]
mod6 it's fine, I just didn't realize that in the filename, the turdolator uses SHA1 [22:38]
asciilifeform poor hotel cleaning ladies dealt with actual human shit far more often than I'd have expected << one of the major brainmelters for me, when i went to c3, was that the gurlz who serviced the hotel rooms, were pretty [22:38]
asciilifeform this is unheard of in usa [22:38]
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trinque asciilifeform: ah yeah they were total trolls at my old gig [22:39]
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asciilifeform end-cap on the thread is that this trend of Ubering seems to be about trying to dissolve responsibility << this is part of it, but the major profit comes from de-institutializing - de-usgizing - the cabbies and hotels [22:39]
* assbot gives voice to Pierre_Rochard [22:39]
asciilifeform in the sese that random schmuck driving 'uber' has no paperwork, no pensions, no unemployment insurances, cannot sue for anything, etc. [22:39]
trinque asciilifeform: hm yeah, "this is so much better!" because it's not wearing lead shoes [22:40]
mod6 I should re-iterate that I'm still waiting on a pogo to come to me...so this v0.5.3.1+OrphanageNuke test is running on AWS deb6 (amd64) [22:40]
trinque makes sense. [22:40]
asciilifeform and probably has a day job, so he doesn't need anything like a 'living wage' either [22:40]
asciilifeform there will be myriad parasitic waterfalls like 'uber', i expect, which feed upon the difference between what it -actually- costs to do something like driving cab - at butugychag subsistence levels with zero regard for the meatbag's future - and what usgtronic tentacles which masquerade as american firms presently charge. [22:41]
asciilifeform (naturally, usg will pocket the bulk of this difference, but such is the nature of muppet war) [22:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135400 @ 0.00025545 = 34.5879 BTC [-] {4} [22:44]
asciilifeform livegnik: are you familiar with the 'wot' we use here ? [22:45]
livegnik I've just bumped into it, thanks to danielpbarron pointing me to it, and that's how I've ended up in here :) [22:48]
asciilifeform livegnik: consider telling us what you perceive is the advantage of your product over what you now know is the state of the art. [22:49]
danielpbarron livegnik, not sure how much you've already found; here's a good starting point http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/wot_and_reputation [22:50]
assbot wot_and_reputation [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMwpI ) [22:50]
livegnik It's a protocol for identity management for both humans, entities, and machines. It gives the ability to create Sybil-proof WoTs (to the extent that the least trustworthy node added, decides the strength of your security), for almost anything. [22:50]
asciilifeform livegnik: what is involved in a 'sybil-proof' wot for machines ? [22:51]
asciilifeform or, for that matter, people? (how do you decide what constitutes a person?) [22:51]
livegnik Yesterday I've written an extensive comment on Ian Grigg's article about ID issues, especially in combination with the blockchain. It's quite the read, but I think it'll be worth your time, if you want to get a more in-depth view of Identifi: [22:51]
livegnik http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/001556.html [22:51]
assbot Financial Cryptography: The Sum of All Chains - Let's Converge! ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMAFN ) [22:51]
livegnik asciilifeform: Mostly a whitelist. Whitelisting solves the Sybil. The thing is, whitelisting hasn't been very user-friendly up till now, without the security trade-off. [22:52]
* williamdunne has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [22:52]
asciilifeform whitelist composed by whom? kim jong un ? [22:52]
asciilifeform the pope ? [22:52]
livegnik asciilifeform: A set of attributes, identifiers. I've extensively elaborated on it in the comment on Ian's article. [22:52]
livegnik Might be tl;dr though ... [22:52]
livegnik There's no whitepaper atm, so the comment in that article probably explains it best/most thus far. [22:53]
asciilifeform try to answer this one compactly, it should be answerable. who composes the whitelist ? [22:54]
livegnik Also, you can find the proof-of-concept on GitHub: https://github.com/identifi/identifi [22:54]
assbot identifi/identifi · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMY7b ) [22:54]
livegnik The identity to whom the whitelist belongs. [22:54]
livegnik Each identity creates it's own whitelist / WoT. [22:54]
asciilifeform so your system reduces to 'if you trust 1,001 people who turn out to be sybils, shame on you, you oughta have known better' ? [22:54]
asciilifeform this is how existing wots work. but to say that this 'solves sybils' is, at the very least, odd [22:55]
livegnik You could put it that way, yes. But it can visualize sybil swarms by showing the few 'real IDs' linking to it. [22:55]
asciilifeform what is a 'real id' ? [22:55]
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livegnik The people you know and trust (for whatever reason) basically, and therefore have verified. [22:56]
trinque So we're all the same -- we people are the same as smart contracts, as block chains, etc, and we should be able to make recipe that describes us. We should be able to collect all these things together and make it such that we all look the same. << wtf [22:56]
trinque this is written in a haphazard manner [22:56]
trinque aside that it just strings together analogies [22:56]
danielpbarron !gettrust livegnik [22:57]
assbot livegnik is not registered in WoT. [22:57]
asciilifeform the text is astonishingly painful to read. [22:57]
asciilifeform so far it seems to add up to a 80% re-implementation of the proper wot out of toothpicks and tape. [22:58]
livegnik brb [22:58]
asciilifeform with a distinct lack of clarity re: what it is all for. [22:58]
danielpbarron livegnik, what do you make of this? -> http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=asciilifeform&to=danielpbarron [22:58]
assbot WoT Trust - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjNt1e ) [22:58]
trinque So we can have a "mainnet" can we also have "AliceNet" or "Mynet?" Yes, in theory we can. << this does *not* follow [22:59]
trinque insofar as you're saying will computers run and call themselves asscoin if I create an asscoinnet, sure [22:59]
trinque considering "what is bitcoin" is called for before calling it fungible with any other *net [23:00]
trinque or *coin [23:00]
trinque "I mean, they're all blockchain technology." [23:00]
trinque livegnik: this "guid" you're reaching for is called a keypair [23:02]
livegnik I'll need 10 more minutes, sorry guys. [23:02]
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* assbot removes voice from livegnik [23:06]
asciilifeform !up livegnik [23:07]
* assbot gives voice to livegnik [23:07]
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mod6 trinque: where can I add "rootfstype=ext3" or "rootfstype=ext4" to the list of boot params? I don't see anything thing like that in the kernel config -- except where I've already enabled EXT4 and EXT3 [23:17]
mod6 well, i guess I didn't have EXT3 enabled, just: "Use ext4 for ext2/ext3 file systems" under "Filesystems" [23:18]
mod6 (in `make menuconfig`) [23:18]
livegnik I'm back. Sorry for the interruption. [23:22]
livegnik asciilifeform: my/Ian's/both our text pain to read? [23:23]
livegnik asciilifeform: Hopefully this interview I've done with current partner, before I joined the project, clears up what it could be used for in the 'real' world: http://unbit.nl/2014/09/16/martti-malmi-on-bitcoin-and-identifi/ [23:24]
assbot Unbit.nl - Martti Malmi on Bitcoin & Identifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLRWZL ) [23:24]
livegnik danielpbarron: I like Bitcoin-OTC, even though I haven't used it myself. I do believe that I grasp the concept itself though. [23:25]
trinque livegnik: reading that I'm not clear on what "it" is [23:26]
trinque mod6: that parameter is one provided to the kernel at boot [23:26]
livegnik trinque: it == Identifi [23:26]
danielpbarron "Martti Malmi is a former computer science student from Helsinki University of Technology who nowadays works as a software developer. He is well-known for being the first person to join Satoshi Nakamoto in the development of Bitcoin." [23:27]
mod6 trinque: from grub?? [23:27]
livegnik danielpbarron: The main difference between Bitcoin-OTC and Identifi, if I understand correctly, is that the Bitcoin-OTC WoT acts as a WoT-for-all, whereas with Identifi each identity has it's own WoT, and there's no 'general' score. [23:27]
trinque mod6: yeah from whatever the bootloader is; there's also a way to build command line (meaning kernel command line) parameters into the kernel itself [23:27]
mod6 ah, ok. [23:28]
mod6 thx [23:28]
trinque np [23:28]
danielpbarron the general score can be ignored for the most part (in the OTC / assbot WoT) [23:28]
* gernika_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [23:28]
trinque livegnik: ah I'm looking at the website for that project now [23:28]
livegnik I agree that it can be ignored for the most-part, but Identifi doesn't even contain it. [23:28]
livegnik trinque: Would that be identifi.org or identi.fi? [23:29]
danielpbarron livegnik, do you get the whole L1 L2 thing? [23:29]
livegnik The first is a quite shallow explanation of the project, we'll update it within a few months or so (after rounding up the pilot projects, board of advisors, and funding). [23:29]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [23:29]
livegnik The latter (http://identi.fi/) is a proto-type of what a front-end COULD look like. [23:30]
trinque livegnik: so this is a haxed bitcoin where the payments are instead ratings, yeah? [23:30]
trinque livegnik: was looking at everything linked from github [23:30]
livegnik danielpbarron: Could you elaborate on the L1 L2 thing for me? [23:30]
decimation livegnik: what are you going to use funding for? [23:30]
livegnik trinque: Yes, for the most part. And there's no blockchain. [23:30]
danielpbarron livegnik, my L1 or "level one" consists of users that I trust (have given a rating) directly [23:31]
danielpbarron my L2 "level two" consists of all the users trusted by users in my L1 [23:31]
danielpbarron so it is like a WoT within a WoT as you might imagine, where each user is a WoT or whatever [23:32]
livegnik trinque: There are 2 types of messages: 1.) verifications of identity's identifiers, and 2.) trust ratings ("Alice is a terrific barber!". "Bob is the worst car salesman!", "DID_REPAY_LOAN_ON_TIME", etc.) [23:32]
* sunbeachbabe (~beachbabe@2607:fb90:2900:134c:c4c:6db5:df38:8ccf) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:32]
livegnik danielpbarron: Ah, the viewpoints. Capice. [23:32]
danielpbarron !up sunbeachbabe [23:32]
* assbot gives voice to sunbeachbabe [23:32]
livegnik danielpbarron: Identifi does the same with the trust ratings, you can set your viewpoint from 0 to infinite. [23:32]
sunbeachbabe Lol assbot [23:33]
danielpbarron in the real WoT, the max is 2 [23:33]
danielpbarron what would an L3 consist of? friend of a friend of a friend? no thanks [23:33]
livegnik Within Identifi networks the max is infinite, but the proto-type of our front-end hands you the options 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or infinite degree. [23:33]
livegnik Well, that info is there. It's up to you to filter. [23:34]
danielpbarron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZd_YyFzPD0 [23:34]
assbot Spaceballs - "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate." - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLSLln ) [23:34]
livegnik ghehe [23:34]
trinque danielpbarron: what does that make us? [23:34]
trinque ABSOLUTELY NOTHING [23:34]
trinque ah great movie [23:34]
decimation livegnik: what are you going to use your funding to do? [23:34]
livegnik decimation: Mainly for further development, in cooperation with our pilot partners. [23:35]
* sunbeachbabe has quit (Client Quit) [23:35]
livegnik I'm actually not interested in a very high valuation, to be honest, just to be able to pay a few devs to work on this full-time. [23:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95296 @ 0.00025239 = 24.0518 BTC [-] {3} [23:36]
* badon (~badon@pdpc/supporter/active/badon) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:36]
livegnik The idea for business model for the company we have in mind probably comes closest to Red Hat, without the Enterprise edition. [23:36]
livegnik One size that fits all. Additional applications could be ran on-top of the node. [23:37]
decimation you get the government to pay you for other people's work? [23:37]
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* assbot removes voice from livegnik [23:37]
trinque !up livegnik [23:37]
decimation !up livegnik [23:37]
* assbot gives voice to livegnik [23:37]
* assbot gives voice to livegnik [23:37]
livegnik decimation: Not sure if I understand ... [23:37]
decimation what is 'redhat's business model without enterprise'? [23:37]
livegnik Services mostly. Helping business who want to integrate Identifi nodes within their existing environments mostly. [23:38]
livegnik Mostly. [23:38]
livegnik Sorry, 4:33am(sterdam) over here. [23:38]
trinque I'd be interested to see an example of that business model working for something that's not a) propped up by VC b) propped up by govt or c) already had a viable consulting business [23:40]
danielpbarron heh, Anduck is in your "address book" of ratings [23:41]
livegnik trinque: So would we. Sirius spent 1.5 half years working on the proof-of-concept, and I've spent the last 8 months working on this project full-time. I've actually quit my dayjob for it and am burning my savings. [23:41]
livegnik Yep. [23:41]
danielpbarron !gettrust assbot Anduck [23:41]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -5 via 7 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=Anduck | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Anduck/ [23:41]
livegnik Everyone in the Bitcoin-OTC WoT should be in there, if correct. There's a Bitcoin-OTC crawler for Identifi nodes :) [23:41]
decimation livegnik: what do you have to offer over properly using gpg? [23:41]
livegnik https://github.com/identifi/identifi-crawlers [23:41]
assbot identifi/identifi-crawlers · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLThQq ) [23:41]
livegnik decimation: Well, I guess usability on many fronts mostly. Also, it can be integrated within many existing fields. [23:42]
danielpbarron sounds like this idea can be adapted to the gribble/assbot divide problem [23:42]
livegnik I'd even dare to predict that this should enable business models like, e.g, a decentralized credit rating agency. [23:43]
livegnik What's the gribble/assbot divide problem, if I may? [23:43]
danielpbarron the WoT forked [23:43]
livegnik Hmm. How did that happen? [23:43]
danielpbarron someone mined a block that was too big :p [23:43]
livegnik Ah :P [23:43]
danielpbarron it's in the log which you should read [23:44]
livegnik Identifi is blockchain-agnostic in itself. [23:44]
livegnik Got url? [23:44]
danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109240 [23:45]
assbot Logged on 24-04-2015 13:15:14; mircea_popescu: gribble went down at some point. this is rare, but whatever, happens. nanotube was also unresponsive. after a few days in this position assbot got enabled to wot [23:45]
livegnik Can I drop a few lines (like 15 or so) in here to give some examples of what Identifi nodes could be applied to? [23:46]
danielpbarron any of the many free txt file hosting services [23:47]
livegnik Sure thing. [23:47]
danielpbarron dpaste is a favorite in here; also pastebin [23:47]
livegnik There ya go: http://pastebin.com/ucczV0hr [23:47]
assbot - One-way authentication, so that the party that you're authenticating with does - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLTH9q ) [23:47]
livegnik I'll check dpaste. I've been using pastebin up till now for the most-part; years. [23:48]
danielpbarron so there should be a link on your site to my "address book" listing ? [23:48]
livegnik http://identi.fi/id/account/danielpbarron%40bitcoin-otc.com [23:50]
assbot Identifi - danielpbarron ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjUDTa ) [23:50]
trinque livegnik | trinque: So would we. Sirius spent 1.5 half years working on the proof-of-concept, and I've spent the last 8 months working on this project << for the logs, it is never, ever a good idea to leap off into some venture with both feet when the venture has no profitability or plan to achieve it [23:50]
trinque livegnik: this killed my last employer, as it should have [23:50]
trinque the idea that profitability is something you can "figure out along the way" if at all, is a braindead american VC concept [23:51]
livegnik trinque: We plan to break-even within (max) a year or 3. [23:51]
trinque as noted earlier in the logs, these days our chief export is bullshit [23:51]
livegnik I can't say too much about it at this time, but I can tell you that we have an accountant who's helping us to crunch the numbers. [23:52]
trinque yes but this is "if we get x and y consulting dollars" and so on? [23:52]
livegnik That's one revenue stream, yes. [23:52]
livegnik Happy to elaborate on the others when I can make that info public. [23:52]
trinque sure [23:52]
trinque and maybe you will; difficult position to be in to say the least [23:53]
trinque livegnik: what does each node store its WoT in? [23:53]
livegnik An sqlite3 database. [23:54]
trinque as I understand it you're basically using the bitcoin transaction propagation stuff to send out rating data? [23:54]
trinque then stuffed into sqlite [23:54]
trinque ? [23:54]
livegnik Yes, [23:54]
trinque so you're merely using "bitcoin" as a gossip layer [23:54]
trinque keypairs and gossip about ratings is probably not far from the mark [23:55]
livegnik And we're working on a permission database / filter/firewall & communication application that can run between the node that stores the actual data, and the other trusted nodes, in order to set thresholds based on permissions for sharing info. [23:55]
livegnik You could put it that way. It's a layer to shuffle your marmot around, or whatever analogy you prefer. [23:55]
livegnik Not far from the mark? [23:55]
trinque if you're not using the blockchain I dunno why you don't just use gpg keys and some gossip protocol; as I understand it bitcoin isn't even very good at that part [23:57]
danielpbarron lolol "shuffle your marmot" [23:57]
trinque heh [23:57]
* trinque reserves judgment on whether this is a nice marmot yet [23:58]
trinque seems there's a simpler way [23:58]
livegnik trinque: I'm not much of a coder, so I'm not able to answer that last remark at this point. Martti probably has a fitting answer for that one, according to my previous experiences with his mostly-always-sufficient answers. [23:59]
trinque livegnik: get in our WoT so you can self-voice, and invite him along too [23:59]
livegnik I'm open for suggestions though, and again, I'm just the business developer. Martti is the real dev on this one. [23:59]
trinque debate is how things operate around here [23:59]
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