Forum logs for 04 Apr 2013

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	wao http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/people-bitcoin-is-not-worth-100-dollars-per-stop-buying	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	he just can't spell.	[00:00]
wao	hmm	[00:00]
taub	< Bugpowder> its actually half doc / half porn.	[00:01]
taub	lol	[00:01]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.147 = 0.441 BTC [+]	[00:02]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.14319 BTC [-]	[00:02]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 6 @ 0.143 = 0.858 BTC [-]	[00:02]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 20 @ 0.14 = 2.8 BTC [-]	[00:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1550 @ 0.00333521 = 5.1696 BTC [+]	[00:02]
Bugpowder	;;bids 0	[00:02]
gribble	There are currently 30741115 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 7716124.53316 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 151.0175 seconds	[00:02]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.45 = 1.35 BTC [+]	[00:03]
Bugpowder	oh jesus	[00:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.005 BTC [+]	[00:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 30 @ 0.1313 = 3.939 BTC [-]	[00:03]
pgp	isn't there normally more like $10MM on bid side?	[00:03]
dub	come on $2	[00:03]
Bugpowder	well if by normally you mean in the last 3 days of insane buying, yes.	[00:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.45 = 0.9 BTC [+]	[00:04]
pgp	even a week ago...	[00:05]
thestringpuller	$avg	[00:05]
mpexbot	thestringpuller: 129.26	[00:05]
pgp	a lot of bids have been pulled	[00:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.125 = 0.375 BTC [-]	[00:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 40 @ 0.12104 = 4.8416 BTC [-]	[00:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.45 = 1.35 BTC [+]	[00:06]
thestringpuller	;;seen smickles	[00:06]
gribble	smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 hours, 12 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: well, poo	[00:06]
thestringpuller	Bugpowder: hey	[00:06]
Bugpowder	yo	[00:06]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 75 @ 0.12102 = 9.0765 BTC [-]	[00:06]
thestringpuller	!ticker H HIM	[00:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.87000000 / 1.94453478 / 2.00000000 (23 shares, 44.72430000 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.92572839 / 2.08000000 (162 shares, 311.96799996 BTC), 30D: 1.40001001 / 1.80151405 / 2.08000000 (737 shares, 1327.71585265 BTC)	[00:06]
pgp	;;asks 200	[00:07]
gribble	There are currently 30794.949 bitcoins offered at or under 200.0 USD, worth 4689431.10089 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 73.3201 seconds	[00:07]
thestringpuller	$oix	[00:10]
thestringpuller	oops	[00:10]
thestringpuller	!ticker m ^oix	[00:11]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 93.3570601 / 108.23895332 / 135.79703245 (19608 shares, 8,036.44 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[00:11]
mjr_	nice	[00:11]
mjr_	let's see how long this lasts	[00:11]
thestringpuller	;;bids 80	[00:11]
gribble	There are currently 33883.478 bitcoins demanded at or over 80.0 USD, worth 3259848.25857 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0051 seconds	[00:11]
bgupta	so apparently anonymous took up mircea_popescu's call to pretect freedom by preventing the rise of bitcoin, but instead of selling btc as their methodology, they are ing using a ddos against mtgox. Hey if it can't trade it can't rise. ;)	[00:11]
mjr_	is mt gox ddos'd?	[00:12]
bgupta	sorry for typos..	[00:12]
bgupta	yeah	[00:12]
bgupta	has been most all day	[00:12]
thestringpuller	but it's starting to pull through	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	bgupta everybody's been ddos'd all year	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	the only difference is they kinda suck at it.	[00:12]
thestringpuller	;;ticker	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	(ie, cloudflare and bs)	[00:12]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 115.10000, Best ask: 115.19999, Bid-ask spread: 0.09999, Last trade: 115.20000, 24 hour volume: 134283.56443513, 24 hour low: 113.47500, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.50960	[00:12]
bgupta	mircea_popescu: Well you gotta admit that the ddos took the wind out any thought of a retry at insane rally today.	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	not rly.	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	135k traded today.	[00:15]
bgupta	You think a ddos against the major btc exchange would help a rally?	[00:15]
Bugpowder	hmm... how is the reddit sentiment index doing	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	it can do either, in principle. why not ?	[00:15]
deadweasel	https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions keeps rising	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	moreover, as shockingly crummy service this is, it's not much outside of mtgox normal range.	[00:15]
*	dub suggests to #mtgox that they list on MPEX to raise capital for engine	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	banned in 3 2 1	[00:16]
jurov	muhaha	[00:16]
dub	dub: except that'd be illegla	[00:16]
jurov	they should just ask theymos for some of the stash	[00:16]
jborkl	wow, that is a lot of unconfirmed	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	you know this unconfirmed stuff is starting to worry	[00:16]
bgupta	it kinda serves the same purpose of a short circuit, breaking whatever momentum insanity is going on in market	[00:16]
Bugpowder	FUck.	[00:16]
Bugpowder	I'm Raising My Bitcoin Price Target To $400 Henry Blodget Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/im-raising-my-bitcoin-price-target-to-400-2013-4#ixzz2PRBAUZVk	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	what with the decrease in nodes it could be actually connectivity issues that prevent txs from making it into mempools	[00:17]
jborkl	4400, new record	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	i see 5.3k	[00:17]
jborkl	we are showing 855 nodes today	[00:17]
jborkl	oh really, 5.3- really new record	[00:17]
Bugpowder	good by 113	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	jborkl i am thinking : if they aren't well distributed (ie, concentrated in major dc hubs)	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	then the latency to move txs around could actually account for some of the uncofirmed pile	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	jborkl oryou meant total kb ?	[00:18]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[00:18]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 113.50000, Best ask: 115.00000, Bid-ask spread: 1.50000, Last trade: 115.00000, 24 hour volume: 134283.56443513, 24 hour low: 113.47500, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.50960	[00:18]
deadweasel	;;nodes	[00:18]
gribble	Error: "nodes" is not a valid command.	[00:18]
ThickAsThieves	;;goxlag	[00:19]
gribble	Error: Problem retrieving gox lag. Try again later.	[00:19]
jborkl	I have seen many people reporting 12-15 hours on transactions with fees	[00:19]
pgp	yikes	[00:19]
deadweasel	jborkl: i'm up to 6	[00:19]
jborkl	depends on what time of day and what is going on	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	^ that.	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	that supports the connectivity issue.	[00:19]
deadweasel	11:32am est	[00:19]
deadweasel	still uncnfmd	[00:19]
ThickAsThieves	i have a tx with 0 confirms from like 6 hrs ago	[00:19]
Bugpowder	$110	[00:20]
ThickAsThieves	whats happening?	[00:20]
Bugpowder	the correction	[00:20]
jborkl	tell you the truth- I noticed after most people rolled out .81	[00:20]
Bugpowder	;;bids 0	[00:20]
gribble	There are currently 30744690 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 7807337.72401 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0097 seconds	[00:21]
deadweasel	opening in July 2013 'The Correction' starring angelina jolie.	[00:21]
jborkl	but, there was also a huge price swing at the same time, so hard to tell	[00:21]
Bugpowder	I got bids starting at $91.8 anyone else?	[00:21]
mjr_	wow	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	deadweasel some younger chick pls.	[00:21]
mjr_	kate upton?	[00:22]
jborkl	cavirtex, bid starts at 103 cad	[00:22]
deadweasel	starring some jailbait	[00:22]
Bugpowder	Bakewell is gonna show back up any minute now	[00:22]
kakobrekla	lol	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	Dree Hemingway	[00:22]
*	troc_ (~tom@cpc18-pool13-2-0-cust39.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pmtDGABuoJE/TIhDLD3nYfI/AAAAAAAACHc/qFjrZonBn80/s1600/43881_Dree_Hemingway10_PurpleFW09_10_123_67lo.jpg	[00:22]
deadweasel	!!!	[00:22]
deadweasel	yes please	[00:23]
jcpham	my txn from yesterday that was so screwy confirmed	[00:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.1 BTC [-]	[00:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.45 = 0.9 BTC [+]	[00:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.45 = 2.25 BTC [+]	[00:25]
jurov	i think never seen this before on mtgox	[00:25]
jcpham	poor gox trading engine	[00:25]
jcpham	i think i can, i think i can	[00:26]
thestringpuller	!ticker h him	[00:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.87000000 / 1.94453478 / 2.00000000 (23 shares, 44.72430000 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.92572839 / 2.08000000 (162 shares, 311.96799996 BTC), 30D: 1.40001001 / 1.80151405 / 2.08000000 (737 shares, 1327.71585265 BTC)	[00:26]
*	Ixitachil has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[00:26]
taub	I wonder if mtgox is halting on purpose to prevent price crashes	[00:26]
burnside	crashing on btc-e	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	doesn't seem to be workingtoo well if they are.	[00:27]
taub	of course it doesnt work :\|	[00:27]
taub	EU did something where they banned short sales	[00:27]
dub	apparently the ddos is mitigated	[00:28]
taub	or close down exchanges after a certain % drop	[00:28]
dub	please login and sell all your coin	[00:28]
Bugpowder	closing down would be the stupidest fucking thing in bitcoinland	[00:28]
Bugpowder	close down at the bottom, you don't get a bounce.	[00:28]
dub	have you been to bitcoinland? I don't even want to think about the level of stupid you would need to get that low	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	taub it's been traditional in fiat to halt trading after drops	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	this was originally good and needed, because people needed to arrange backing.	[00:29]
jborkl	bottom, wtf are you talking about- we went from $20 to $150	[00:30]
*	damientrog has quit (Quit: damientrog)	[00:30]
taub	well	[00:30]
taub	but not in the time of high speed electronic exchanges	[00:30]
jborkl	it did not need to be at 150 yet	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	ya well, diff thing i agree.	[00:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.USD.P089T] 200 @ 0.08390371 = 16.7807 BTC [-]	[00:30]
dub	Bugpowder: what I don't like about today is api was still workign while web is down	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	i don't think halting is a good idea in btc.	[00:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.45 = 2.25 BTC [+]	[00:30]
Bugpowder	web is working sometimes	[00:31]
Bugpowder	worked for me 10 minutes ago	[00:31]
dub	I think its fixed now	[00:31]
Bugpowder	;;bids 0	[00:31]
dub	as of 10 minutes ago oslt	[00:31]
gribble	There are currently 30759476 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 7586263.08014 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0238 seconds	[00:31]
bgupta	inability to trade shakes faith in system and causes people to panic sell.	[00:31]
Bugpowder	that guy that had the wall at 90 needs to step in if we ping 90.	[00:31]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 9 @ 0.46 = 4.14 BTC [+]	[00:31]
taub	;;goxlag	[00:32]
gribble	MtGox lag is 648.276674 seconds. During this time, light travels 1.29913919623 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin from the Sun to Mars (1.52 AU).	[00:32]
taub	at least it's alive!	[00:32]
thestringpuller	!ticker OIX	[00:32]
assbot	The vision of Christ that thou dost see ... is my vision's greatest enemy.	[00:32]
thestringpuller	!ticker m ^OIX	[00:32]
assbot	[MPEX:^OIX] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 93.3570601 / 108.23895332 / 135.79703245 (19608 shares, 8,036.44 BTC), 30D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC)	[00:32]
*	Ixitachil (~gandalf@95.61.172.46) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:32]
jborkl	well, one guy cant stop it all by himself	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	what, are we panicking the other way nao ?	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	why are people so excitable.	[00:32]
jborkl	I don't know	[00:33]
dub	I've got a bid at 88.8 because china	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	isnt that 555 ?	[00:33]
dub	no its tiger penis	[00:33]
Bugpowder	that guy had an order for 15 or 20k coins at 90.	[00:33]
Bugpowder	maybe 10-15.	[00:33]
Bugpowder	he CAN stop it.	[00:33]
Bugpowder	but why stop it till it gets that low.	[00:34]
mjr_	why not 88.888	[00:36]
mjr_	the five eights account	[00:36]
mjr_	reference to the account that brought down barings bank	[00:37]
*	random_cat (~random_ca@gateway/tor-sasl/randomcat/x-49498005) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:38]
taub	trading below the 24h avg	[00:41]
taub	doesnt happen often, but lately hasn't meant much either	[00:41]
*	Ixitachil has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[00:45]
mjr_	this is what happens when you fly too close to the sun	[00:45]
*	jcpham0 (~jcpham@81.17.31.41) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.009998 BTC [+]	[00:45]
mjr_	;;bids	[00:45]
gribble	(bids [--under] ) -- Calculate the amount of bitcoin demanded at or over . If '--under' option is given, find coins or at or under .	[00:45]
mjr_	;;bids 0	[00:45]
gribble	There are currently 30793298 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 7900811.43311 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 18.9365 seconds	[00:45]
taub	i hate being right	[00:45]
taub	and not making any money	[00:46]
mjr_	lol its the worst	[00:46]
mjr_	woohoo	[00:46]
mjr_	someone needs to create vix for btc	[00:46]
mjr_	oh wait, that might just be btc itself	[00:46]
mjr_	what the fuck	[00:46]
mjr_	buys finally made it to the engine lol	[00:47]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[07:29]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com/	[07:29]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 13 14:15:50 2013	[07:29]
Riekal	I ran the test at bitminter.com/test	[07:29]
Riekal	and it even said my gpu was at 10.2 mh/s	[07:29]
mircea_popescu	well... let's drop the bomb in #mtgox	[07:29]
Riekal	O_o	[07:30]
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*	W0rmDr1nk (~WormDrink@unaffiliated/wormdrink) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:32]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.39 = 0.78 BTC [+]	[07:32]
*	Anduck (~Anduck@85-76-177-46-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:33]
*	Anduck has quit (Changing host)	[07:33]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 9 @ 0.4 = 3.6 BTC [-]	[07:33]
[\]	note to self, always go mudding with the windows open: http://omg.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/buckwild-production-companies-paying-shain-gandee-funeral-140430505.html	[07:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 4 @ 0.000658 = 0.0026 BTC [+]	[07:34]
mircea_popescu	[\] i see your note and raise you http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303287/Indian-engineers-invent-anti-rape-underwear-gives-attackers-electric-shocks-automatically-texts-police-help.html	[07:35]
mircea_popescu	also 4000 per episode ?! bwagagagaga who the fuck does this ?	[07:36]
mircea_popescu	random girl in pornscene makes that	[07:36]
[\]	mircea_popescu: a bunch of hillbillies who have no future	[07:36]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck thinks that's a star.	[07:36]
[\]	mircea_popescu: I saw your shocker and raise you a man with no penis: http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/eric-ducharme--the-real-life-mermaid-200251696.html	[07:36]
mircea_popescu	o ya ?	[07:36]
mircea_popescu	i see your man with no penis and i give you a matress with a safe : http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/shortcuts/2013/mar/29/mattress-safe-bank-with-confidence	[07:38]
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mircea_popescu	meanwhile on twitter :	[07:42]
mircea_popescu	Adam Posen @AdamPosen (President, Peterson Institute for International Economics; member Bank of England MPC 2009-12; advises central banks & governments; proclaiming on policy daily) : #gold is the investment for silly people. #bitcoin is gold for people who don't save. Please make it go away. pic.twitter.com/UdbbxCiNXD	[07:42]
mircea_popescu	Mircea Popescu ‏@Mircea_Popescu 54s @AdamPosen What are you, like some sort of retard with a high self esteem ?	[07:43]
*	PhantomSpark\|2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[07:44]
mircea_popescu	and let's hammer [\] into the ground with this coup de grace killing blow final strike : http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/03/man-who-gave-birth-to-three-babies-unsuccessfully-begs-for-a-divorce-in-this-odd-legal-conundrum/	[07:48]
mod6	boggle	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	hai mod6	[07:52]
mod6	hi :]	[07:52]
mod6	people in arizona are getting more strange i see	[07:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.7003 = 1.4006 BTC [-]	[07:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7002 BTC [-]	[07:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.7001 = 3.5005 BTC [-]	[07:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 24 @ 0.7 = 16.8 BTC [-]	[07:53]
*	orkaa has quit (Quit: orkaa)	[07:54]
mircea_popescu	it's a sliding scale.	[07:55]
mod6	ya, arizona still pretty much kicks ass tho	[07:55]
mod6	i guess it depends	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	i prefer texas as far as desert states go.	[07:57]
mod6	i never spent too much time there. drove across it once though. fast.	[07:57]
mircea_popescu	1. pretty much all bartenders are fuckable chicks ; 2. they buy me drinks like it's their bar and i'm their bro.	[07:58]
mircea_popescu	(ymmv)	[07:58]
mod6	haha nice	[07:58]
*	mod6 dreams of the hot girls @ UofA	[07:59]
mircea_popescu	contrary to what people of walmart may lead you to believe,	[07:59]
mircea_popescu	there are some.	[07:59]
mod6	bingo	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/03/offshore-secrets-offshore-tax-haven	[08:00]
mod6	that website has some serious feature-creatures	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	bwahahaha	[08:00]
mod6	when I worked nights at walmart in tucson you see it all i tell you	[08:01]
mod6	just... wow.	[08:01]
*	Bugpowder (~Bugpowder@pool-71-171-106-2.clppva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:01]
mod6	dang $32tn	[08:03]
mircea_popescu	basically this is all moving into bitcoin.	[08:05]
mod6	seems like it	[08:06]
mircea_popescu	The whistleblowing group WikiLeaks caused a storm of controversy in 2010 when it was able to download almost two gigabytes of leaked US military and diplomatic files.	[08:06]
mircea_popescu	The new BVI data, by contrast, contains more than 200 gigabytes	[08:06]
mircea_popescu	you can sorta smell the butthurt.	[08:06]
mircea_popescu	the problem with this is that being a govt official IS immoral,	[08:06]
mircea_popescu	whereas being rich is not.	[08:06]
mircea_popescu	of course msm would like to make it so it's the other way around.	[08:07]
*	Boydy (~BB@unaffiliated/boydy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:08]
mod6	[\]: "I'm just glad your mother didn't live to see you become a mermaid." "MERMAN... MERMAN!!"	[08:09]
mod6	mircea_popescu: it used to be that people didn't go into government service (unless .mil) until they were pretty successful in the private sector. Not any longer, its like people get out of school and they want to go right into government. What gives?	[08:11]
mircea_popescu	they have no skills, no ability and won't do any work.	[08:11]
mircea_popescu	govt is the only thing that'd hire them	[08:11]
*	Bugpowder has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[08:12]
mod6	yeah, certainly low ability to be a bread-winner or entrepreneur -- so just go into gov and get a cushy handout	[08:12]
*	Bugpowder (~Bugpowder@pool-71-171-106-2.clppva.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1219 @ 0.00070345 = 0.8575 BTC [+]	[08:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6781 @ 0.00070496 = 4.7803 BTC [+]	[08:13]
mod6	back in the day a guy would have a career for his life and then when asked or when he "felt the call of duty" would go into politics. More likely because at that level they can take even bigger amts of cash from lobbiests.	[08:13]
mod6	*lobbyists	[08:14]
mircea_popescu	heh	[08:14]
mod6	shrug	[08:14]
mod6	People over here are pretty convinced that if the government went away the sky would fall.	[08:16]
mod6	It's probably the furthest thing from the truth.	[08:17]
mod6	What self-respecting dude would ever let some spinless twit make the rules for him?	[08:18]
mod6	I better get off this soapbox .. lol	[08:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00069971 = 6.3674 BTC [-]	[08:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 558 @ 0.00069484 = 0.3877 BTC [-]	[08:20]
mod6	I think people just want to be told what to do.	[08:21]
mod6	It's a short cut to thinking.	[08:21]
mod6	just give me a hammer and a sicle and tell me where to work and how to spend my money at the general store.	[08:21]
bgupta	and bitcoincharts is down again	[08:21]
mod6	*sickle	[08:22]
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mod6	those sites go up and down more than a las vegas hooker	[08:22]
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mod6	So I read this book Anna Karenina a few years back and I recently saw the movie with Jude Law and whomever.. the new one.	[08:25]
bgupta	;;ticker	[08:25]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 129.00000, Best ask: 129.84754, Bid-ask spread: 0.84754, Last trade: 129.84754, 24 hour volume: 156282.00223296, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.88957	[08:25]
mod6	Which kinda sucked actually because it was filmed like a play...	[08:25]
mod6	but it followed the book pretty close. Anyway, its interesting how the classes were so seperated. Like the character Konstantin Levin has all of these pesants that he litereally owns, as slaves.	[08:26]
mod6	And he feels bad about this in some fashion, so he takes it upon himself to join them in their daily labor in the fields, etc. And they actually resent him for it.	[08:27]
mod6	They want him to take his proper place as lord, and the peasants want to serve him in that way.	[08:28]
mod6	Not sure why i bring that up.	[08:29]
mod6	I'm pretty tired i guess :/	[08:29]
mod6	I like reading old books.	[08:29]
mod6	Always fascinating to compare and contrast the past with the present.	[08:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.19999 BTC [-]	[08:32]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]	[08:32]
mod6	heh, just me?	[08:33]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.3711 BTC [-]	[08:35]
mod6	(21:34) < [\]> note to self, always go mudding with the windows open << yea! i heard darwin got these ding-dongs	[08:35]
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mod6	m00	[08:36]
[\]	I think copumpkin reserved that	[08:36]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 4 @ 0.1028 = 0.4112 BTC [+]	[08:39]
mod6	here's some latenight comedy: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/03/obama-will-give-up-portion-of-his-salary/?hpt=hp_t5	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	They want him to take his proper place as lord, and the peasants want to serve him in that way. << you know, people do.	[08:45]
mircea_popescu	this entire equality bs is an expensive fiction really.	[08:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COG.F] 1 @ 2.49 BTC [+]	[08:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7541 BTC [+]	[08:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7544 BTC [+]	[08:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7545 BTC [+]	[08:45]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7546 BTC [+]	[08:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.7547 = 2.2641 BTC [+]	[08:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 20 @ 0.7548 = 15.096 BTC [+]	[08:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.7549 = 2.2647 BTC [+]	[08:46]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.755 BTC [+]	[08:46]
mod6	Yeah over the last 25 years, at least over here, much of the social dogma is about how everyone is equal and must be treated as such.	[08:46]
mod6	It's hard to have competiton if everyone is supposed to be the same; however it also seems to manifest entitlement issues for sure. Nothing is equal, and never has been, but they say it is.	[08:49]
mod6	Its a gigantic mind-job.	[08:49]
mircea_popescu	moreover...	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	people.literally.wish.to.serve.	[08:51]
mircea_popescu	all this angst and loneliness and rest of the bs they keep making sitcoms about...	[08:51]
mircea_popescu	it's really the story of slaves who can't find masters because they don't know they need them.	[08:51]
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mod6	Yeah, I think that people just want to do their duty and do it well (whatever that means) and get the approval or reward they deserve.	[09:03]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 167 @ 0.00177 = 0.2956 BTC [+]	[09:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6314 @ 0.00069956 = 4.417 BTC [+]	[09:09]
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mod6	well, i better call sleep(), gn -assets :)	[09:15]
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ChaangNoi	;;asks 147	[09:37]
gribble	There are currently 11888.865 bitcoins offered at or under 147.0 USD, worth 1685894.41434 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0018 seconds	[09:37]
ChaangNoi	AM going up, good news?	[09:37]
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toffoo	not really, divie was lowest ever this week	[09:47]
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toffoo	i think that's just an uptick from the selloff	[09:48]
mircea_popescu	!ticker btct asicminer-pt	[09:48]
assbot	[BTCT:ASICMINER-PT] 1D: 0.683004 / 0.74436 / 0.78997 (241 shares, 179.4 BTC), 7D: 0.66 / 0.76962 / 0.87968 (2896 shares, 2228.8 BTC), 30D: 0.59998 / 0.7656 / 1 (8136 shares, 6228.9 BTC)	[09:48]
bgupta	well it's just back up to where it almost was yesterday.. there was a minor selloff earlier	[09:48]
mircea_popescu	sorta treading water.	[09:48]
bgupta	they paid for something ike 100 wafers from this weeks div	[09:49]
bgupta	that's why it low	[09:49]
toffoo	what's the format of those quotes? low / something? / high ?	[09:49]
mircea_popescu	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166794	[09:49]
mircea_popescu	lmao that shows promise	[09:49]
mircea_popescu	mtgox actually thinks they're doing a good job ?!	[09:50]
mircea_popescu	this is like one of those when serial killer goes on to testify and tells the judge all those people were conspiring to kill him so he was perfectly justified	[09:50]
mircea_popescu	toffoo low/vwap/high	[09:51]
toffoo	thnx	[09:51]
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mircea_popescu	"In a bid to avoid revealing the details of a secret ruling on domestic surveillance, the White House has warned a federal judge that making the decision public could do “exceptionally grave and serious damage to the national security” of the country."	[09:55]
mircea_popescu	le lol.	[09:55]
mircea_popescu	secret ruling. ruling is precedent and precedent is law. ignorance of the law is no defense.	[09:55]
mircea_popescu	this seems legit.	[09:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00310001 = 3.1 BTC [+]	[09:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 168 @ 0.0031 = 0.5208 BTC [-]	[09:58]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.3 = 0.6 BTC [-]	[09:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.2731 = 0.8193 BTC [-]	[09:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 20 @ 0.273 = 5.46 BTC [-]	[09:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.25 = 2 BTC [-]	[09:59]
jurov	"I understand that many of you have a lot at stake here, but remember that Bitcoin, despite being designed to have its value increase over time, will always be the victim of people trying to abuse the system, or even the value of Bitcoin decreasing occasionally."	[09:59]
jurov	bitcoin designed to have its value increase over time... some outrageous memepic needed here	[10:00]
mircea_popescu	lol	[10:01]
bgupta	;;ticker	[10:02]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 131.14373, Best ask: 131.16321, Bid-ask spread: 0.01948, Last trade: 130.00000, 24 hour volume: 142825.56797466, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.99877	[10:02]
mircea_popescu	lmao what the fuck is that	[10:02]
jurov	from that mtgox announcement you linked	[10:02]
bgupta	if he thinks noone made money today he is an idiot	[10:02]
mircea_popescu	omfg mtgox pr ?!	[10:02]
mircea_popescu	jesus christ how can they be this stupid	[10:02]
toffoo	your -pr girl already grilled it	[10:03]
toffoo	best part is apparently mtgox's official new communications platform is their Facebook page	[10:04]
mircea_popescu	doh.	[10:04]
mircea_popescu	no, im taking the time to blow this to bits, they're too stupid to live at this point.	[10:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1750 @ 0.00322848 = 5.6498 BTC [+]	[10:09]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.701 BTC [-]	[10:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 3081 @ 0.0033333 = 10.2699 BTC [+]	[10:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7001 BTC [-]	[10:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7001 BTC [-]	[10:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.705 BTC [+]	[10:15]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.701 BTC [-]	[10:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13086 @ 0.00069956 = 9.1544 BTC [+]	[10:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2532 @ 0.00069696 = 1.7647 BTC [-]	[10:24]
ChaangNoi	sdice .25 50% moew down and its my buying range	[10:25]
taub	We can fix lag, but we cannot eradicate lag.	[10:26]
taub	well	[10:26]
taub	i'm moving to bitfloor	[10:27]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[10:27]
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taub	i doubled my cash couple times more in btc24	[10:28]
taub	0.5 btc to 25	[10:28]
taub	im not gonna cash out cuz im not a scumbag tho	[10:28]
taub	but taht this is still being ignored tells a lot about the community	[10:28]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00070496 = 6.9791 BTC [+]	[10:31]
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bitesak	;;ticker	[11:08]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 132.00001, Best ask: 132.48000, Bid-ask spread: 0.47999, Last trade: 132.48000, 24 hour volume: 136079.90017269, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.37137	[11:08]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7571 BTC [+]	[11:15]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 5 @ 0.1722 = 0.861 BTC [-]	[11:21]
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error4733	!last h vtx	[11:22]
assbot	Last trade for VTX on HAVELOCK was at 0.4 BTC [-]	[11:22]
error4733	!last m s.dice	[11:22]
assbot	Last trade for S.DICE on MPEX was at 0.0033333 BTC [+]	[11:22]
error4733	!ticker m s.dice	[11:22]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.0031 / 0.00311302 / 0.0035 (389109 shares, 1,211.31 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.0032045 / 0.00439992 (1029316 shares, 3,298.45 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00375489 / 0.006 (1726965 shares, 6,484.57 BTC)	[11:22]
error4733	wuuuuut	[11:23]
error4733	no more exit for S.dice ! Good luck to all holders	[11:23]
TradeFortress	bid is 0.002 now	[11:24]
mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/its-been-an-epic-few-days-what-happened/	[11:28]
mircea_popescu	here we go.	[11:28]
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sturles	mircea_popescu: Do you know of any better exchanges?	[11:42]
sturles	I've tried many. MtGox is the fastest by far under normal circumstances, and the only one able to handle this volume.	[11:42]
sturles	If you know hoe to fix their problems, you should create a better exchange.	[11:43]
taub	was mtgox really a trading card exchange? i thought it was a rumor	[11:44]
sturles	A 100 Gbps DDoS isn't easy to handle for anyone. Reminds me of the Coudflare attack where the attackers went for their upstream providers and kicked out a few national IXes. I think that one was 40 Gbps.	[11:45]
sturles	taub: The first version by Jeb was based on a card trading exchange he wrote, yes.	[11:46]
sturles	It has been completely rewritten since then.	[11:46]
taub	(M)agic(t)he(G)athering?	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	sturles it was rewritten, yes	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	but it wasn't professionally rewritten.	[11:47]
taub	love that article btw	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	they just need to get a proper platform	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	before htey couldn't afford that, so i get it. but now the yhave the money to pay for it,	[11:47]
taub	However, there are many who will try to take advantage of the system. The past few days were a reminder of this sad truth.	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	all that's left is to do it.	[11:47]
taub	yes, love the fact that you bash him for that	[11:47]
taub	just shows again how fucking uneducated they are	[11:48]
sturles	mircea_popescu: A good trading platform isn't something you can go out and buy.	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	taub in fairness pretty much everyone involved with bitcoin has had a huge task just dropped on their lap.	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	sturles you get a license. there's corps specialising in this.	[11:48]
mircea_popescu	you pay a pretty penny and get decent service.	[11:48]
taub	something that sucks less than mtgox is easy tho	[11:49]
mircea_popescu	what, you think the romanian stock exchange runs on software developped by romania's central bank governor ?	[11:49]
sturles	Yep, they could close their API and make people pay to be allowed to connect.	[11:49]
sturles	Like stock exchanges.	[11:49]
mircea_popescu	there's no way to avoid that.	[11:49]
sturles	But I don't think that would help much.	[11:49]
taub	yea, but that isn't the problem yet i think, they aren't nearly at capacity from a hw standpoint	[11:49]
taub	they just have really bad software	[11:49]
mircea_popescu	they're already trying to copy the mpex broker model, but they're doing it stupidly/half bakedly	[11:49]
mircea_popescu	and with losers like coinlab.	[11:49]
sturles	It will help against the lag, yes, but at the same time make MtGox less attractive to use. Less volume, less revenye. They will have to find a balance.	[11:50]
mircea_popescu	the only way to do this is the way this is done.	[11:50]
mircea_popescu	exchange and clearance are sepparate not because peopl;e have nothing better to do with their time, for instance.	[11:50]
sturles	taub: Do you know about any better exhanges? Any faster exchanges? Any other exchanges able to handle their load?	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	sturles each and every national exchange. ~100 of them.	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	the swiss stock exchange. take that.	[11:51]
sturles	mircea_popescu: Those are not for public use. You have to pay $$$$$$$ for a licence to connect.	[11:51]
sturles	Not comparable.	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	of course!	[11:51]
taub	well, i'll be moving over to bitfloor and try them	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	they made what, 10mn this month in fees ?	[11:51]
sturles	And they don't have to handle balances.	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	let them spend that to get a proper platform wtf.	[11:52]
taub	mtgox is still not beatable in liquidity of course	[11:52]
sturles	mircea_popescu: Revenue != profit.	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless.	[11:52]
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mircea_popescu	again : this is not up to discussion. if you want to do this you'll have to do it. otherwise it's not done.	[11:52]
mircea_popescu	they'll copy the mpex model whether they want to or not, because the mpex model is not an accident	[11:53]
taub	yea agree	[11:53]
mircea_popescu	it's simply the result of me knowing finance	[11:53]
taub	there needs to be clearing houses/ brokers	[11:53]
mircea_popescu	which apparently makes me a rare bird, but that's really irrelevant.	[11:53]
taub	cant do it all in one	[11:53]
mircea_popescu	taub they may try to originally, anyway.	[11:53]
sturles	Any exchange can copy the mpex and try that model if they think it wioll work for a publick high volume exchange with high liquidity and trading volume. I don't.	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	but soon enough they'll figure the advantages of splitting it and that'll be that.	[11:54]
taub	okay, well it is possible, betting sites do it	[11:54]
taub	betfair is just a big exchange, probably more volume than mtgox	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	sturles you don't seem to understand that everything that works works like mpex.	[11:54]
sturles	Even MtGox?	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	mtgox doesn't work.	[11:54]
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sturles	Yes, it does.	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	the swiss stock exchange does work.	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	heh. well then that's the root of our problem.	[11:54]
TradeFortress	most people aren't gonna get gpg to trade on an exchange. seriously	[11:55]
taub	steady lag of more than a minute is not working by far	[11:55]
mircea_popescu	TradeFortress gpg isn't the point there tho.	[11:55]
mircea_popescu	they're implementing the separate trade engine model (which is good)	[11:55]
sturles	How many thousands of traders does the swiss stock exchange have directly connected to their API?	[11:55]
mircea_popescu	and they will end up having to use brokers and separate clearance.	[11:55]
sturles	mircea_popescu: You want something else. And you are free to make something completely different from MtGox if you think it will be successfull. I don't.	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	sturles are you about to propose shithole mtgox doing 100mn a month is larger an operation than six ?	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	it is not don;'t be silly.	[11:56]
mircea_popescu	well... this isn't a vote.	[11:56]
taub	There are a few things that we can implement to help fight the attacks, such as disconnecting the trade engine backend from the Internet. By separating the data center from the Mt.Gox website, we will continue to be able to trade	[11:56]
taub	THESE PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS	[11:56]
taub	i wonder what they do over there srsly	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	taub take 3 weeks to read trilema. dun dun dun.	[11:57]
TradeFortress	not doing anything obviously	[11:57]
sturles	The "shithole mtgox" happens to be the only bicoin trading site able to handle this number of traders and activity.	[11:57]
sturles	If it is so simple to make something better, you should go ahead and do it.	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	sturles "Thanks to high capacity reserves and an average round-trip latency of just 37 microseconds for equity trading, investment decisions can be implemented faster and risks adjusted more quickly"	[11:57]
TradeFortress	^ also with an unacceptable amount of lag.	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	read that number again.	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	37 microseconds. get it ?	[11:58]
mircea_popescu	not mili.	[11:58]
TradeFortress	I'm pretty sure many exchanges are going to hit similar amounts of lag if they reach gox's amount of users and trades	[11:58]
sturles	And I don't believe SIX has more people talking to their API than MtGox. Not for a second.	[11:58]
TradeFortress	but that doesn't make it something you should accept	[11:58]
mircea_popescu	sturles you don't believe six handles more trade thoroughput than mtgox ?!	[11:59]
mircea_popescu	what is this, the cartoons ?	[11:59]
sturles	mircea_popescu: That was not what I wrote.	[11:59]
sturles	mircea_popescu: You are comparing apples and oranges.	[11:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11539 @ 0.00069906 = 8.0665 BTC [-]	[11:59]
mircea_popescu	listen, not to be an ass, but are you at all qualified to discuss this topic ?	[11:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 711 @ 0.00069661 = 0.4953 BTC [-]	[11:59]
sturles	MtGox wouldn't be dreaming of their current volume if they converted to a traditional stock exchange model.	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	other than being involved in bitcoin, do you know anything about exchanges etc ?	[12:00]
sturles	So volume would be irrelevant.	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	because there seem to be pretty huge disconnects here i can't quite bridge.	[12:00]
sturles	Yes, I know a few things about exchanges and how they work.	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	okay.	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	so then what difference do you see between what i wrote and what you wrote above ?	[12:01]
sturles	Stock exchanges work by letting licenced brokers do their dirty work.	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[12:01]
sturles	So MtGox is something completely different.	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	no, it is not.	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	listen, just because you think it is doesn't make it so.	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	as long as it exchanges it's an exchange.	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	same constraints apply, same results arise.	[12:02]
sturles	It is more of a broker than an exchange.	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	the model doesn't work tho, they need a platform to trade on.	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	once they get that nothing prevents them from being their own amtrade	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	and offer a website front for people to connect to	[12:03]
sturles	An exchange handles a very limited part of the exchange process.	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	and then that'd be the inhouse broker.	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	heck, that's exactly what mpex does atm.	[12:03]
sturles	So, does Mpex handle MtGox's number of users, volume and frequency?	[12:04]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7571 BTC [+]	[12:04]
mircea_popescu	$mpexlag	[12:04]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: 0.106014966965 seconds	[12:04]
mircea_popescu	that's the key factor. get back to me when you see it over .2 or so.	[12:04]
sturles	mircea_popescu: At what frequency? How many trades per second?	[12:05]
sturles	And how many connected users?	[12:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7573 BTC [+]	[12:05]
mircea_popescu	sturles there's about 2k requests simultaenous atm	[12:05]
mircea_popescu	when mpoe bot refreshes its book	[12:05]
mircea_popescu	which mtgox never handles, afaik.	[12:05]
sturles	Howe many trades per second?	[12:06]
mircea_popescu	dude. mpex gets ~2000 orders SIMULTAENOUSLY.	[12:06]
mircea_popescu	this happens every ~10 minutes.	[12:06]
mircea_popescu	as far as i know the most mtgox can take is something to the order of 10 simultaneous orders. certainly not 100.	[12:07]
mircea_popescu	there is a huge gap here.	[12:07]
TradeFortress	gox orders do tend to fill more asks/bids, don't they?	[12:08]
sturles	MtGox does no simultaneous orders for the same currency (BTC), because there is one order book. Like a stock exchange trading only one stock.	[12:08]
mircea_popescu	what difference does that make ?	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	suppose 2000 users all happened to put an order in at the same time.	[12:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13582 @ 0.00069661 = 9.4614 BTC [-]	[12:12]
sturles	Two bids can not be matched against the same ask, for one thing. You need locking. MtGox also process all orders in strict sequence.	[12:13]
mircea_popescu	this is neither here nor there.	[12:13]
sturles	No sneaking in the order queue.	[12:13]
mircea_popescu	what's it to do with anything ?	[12:13]
sturles	Fairness.	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	...	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	let's get back on track here.	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	people issue orders. engine chokes.	[12:14]
sturles	With only one asset to trade, it is impossible to match two orders at the same time.	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	you don't have to match them	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	you just process them.	[12:14]
mircea_popescu	add them to the book, for instance.	[12:14]
sturles	Yes, and when the book overlaps?	[12:15]
mircea_popescu	you spit out the trade.	[12:15]
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sturles	Correct.	[12:15]
mircea_popescu	right.	[12:15]
sturles	That's basically what MtGox does.	[12:15]
mircea_popescu	yes. the problem here is this : mpex gets 2k simultaneous orders, lag stays under .2	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	mtgox gets 10 simultaneous orders, lag spikes over 100	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	look through their historical list, rarely will they report anything over 100 trades a minute, even at the height of height.	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	this is their engine choking, it can't process fast enough.	[12:17]
sturles	How many simultaneous orders do you think MtGox gets? My home network isn't able to handle their socketio feed of order book changes when the lag approaches 300s.	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	heh, see above.	[12:18]
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sturles	MtGox process more than 10 trades a second even during high load. The number of order book changes is _a lot_ higher.	[12:18]
sturles	The number of orders happening simultaneously (nothing does), is irrelevant.	[12:19]
taub	arent there like multiple open source exchanges?	[12:20]
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taub	by now	[12:20]
sturles	Yes, there are.	[12:20]
sturles	None of them come close to MtGox in speed.	[12:20]
taub	not sure about that :)	[12:20]
sturles	Try them.	[12:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6507 @ 0.00069661 = 4.5328 BTC [-]	[12:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4811 @ 0.00069484 = 3.3429 BTC [-]	[12:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00069391 = 6.6615 BTC [-]	[12:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10682 @ 0.0006928 = 7.4005 BTC [-]	[12:21]
*	leviathanbaphz (leviathanb@CPE-60-231-217-92.lns2.way.bigpond.net.au) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:21]
sturles	mircea_popescu: Does mpex really process 2k trades simultaneously for the same asset?	[12:22]
sturles	With only 0.2 s lag?	[12:22]
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sturles	Or are you comparing apples to oranges again? Trades != order book changes.	[12:22]
taub	they have to decouple their frontside with registration, account management etc from their trading engine	[12:23]
taub	i dont think the matching engine can focus on matching ... it also calculates new balances etc	[12:23]
taub	and checks if you have enough balance to put in an order	[12:23]
taub	its got some fundamental design flaws :s	[12:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 56 @ 0.00321 = 0.1798 BTC [-]	[12:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 16 @ 0.0032 = 0.0512 BTC [-]	[12:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 100 @ 0.00316 = 0.316 BTC [-]	[12:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 5 @ 0.00314 = 0.0157 BTC [-]	[12:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 32 @ 0.003108 = 0.0995 BTC [-]	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	sturles it's not trades, it's orders.	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	can you show me some documentation somewhere for this part : "MtGox process more than 10 trades a second even during high load. The number of order book changes is _a lot_ higher."	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	cause that i'd benefit by	[12:26]
sturles	taub: A few things can be done, yes. An important (to me) feature of MtGox is the ability to have inactive orders (due to lack of funds) automatically activated when funds arrive. Removing this feature, and only allowing funded orders, will speed up the exchange a lot. But it will also remove an important feature making the exchange less attractive for that reason.	[12:27]
taub	that is a nice feature, but it lags the engine down	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	this is irrelevant in the discussion tho.	[12:27]
sturles	Based on simple counting of trades in #bitcoin-market.	[12:27]
taub	its one of the main reasons it lags, and they can have that feature and still not make the exchange lag	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	having some tinker-product homebrew nonsensical thing used as a trade engine is nonsense.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	sturles orderbook changes show in #bitcoin-market ?	[12:28]
sturles	mircea_popescu: I have been working in IT for more than 20 years, and homebrew beats commercial products in 9 of 10 cases,.	[12:28]
sturles	mircea_popescu: No.	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	yeah well, i'm putting all this down to geek disease then.	[12:29]
sturles	mircea_popescu: You have to use the socketIO feed for that.	[12:29]
taub	you mean autism?	[12:29]
sturles	mircea_popescu: And my home network is only 6 mbit/s, so I can't follow it during the DDoS sessions. To many order changes.	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	no, just this bizzaro superman attitude. homebrew beats commercial.	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	wtf, we're talking about pretty much the one field where that's not the case.	[12:29]
sturles	So prove it FFS.	[12:30]
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mircea_popescu	i'm not interested in handling fiat and this is not an argument.	[12:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00301 BTC [-]	[12:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 500 @ 0.003 = 1.5 BTC [-]	[12:30]
sturles	If you think you can go out buy a better bitcoin exchange, just do it.	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	listen to me. this isn't a case of "i think"	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	this is a case of me having some competence and a bunch of geeks thinking they know better on the strength of their experience hacking their own nat router.	[12:31]
sturles	Yes, so far it is you thinking.	[12:31]
sturles	How many trades per second can mpex handle in the same asset while the number of orders are still ticking in at 2k/s?	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	it makes no difference. trades aren't a bottleneck. if the 2k orders result in 2k trades or 2k orderbook changes or nothing at all, it's the same.	[12:32]
mircea_popescu	and 2k it should be able to support indefinitely.	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	obviously that's tested reality and real reality will diverge as soon as it gets a chance, but still.	[12:34]
sturles	How many currencies can I trade the same asset in?	[12:34]
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mircea_popescu	what ?	[12:34]
sturles	MtGox supports matching buys and asks in different currencies to each other. How many does mpex handle?	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	what sort of left field nonsense is that! mtgox only trades bitcoin. mpex only trades bitcoin. that mtgox has usd and eur and aud and w/e assets	[12:35]
sturles	This is the second largest reason for their slowness.	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	whereas mpex has s.dice and s.bbet etc makes jackshit of a difference.	[12:35]
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mircea_popescu	i think you're confused.	[12:35]
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sturles	MtGox trades bitcoin against a long list of different currencies. A separate order book for each currency. Order books are connected at +/-2 2.5% of current exchange value.	[12:36]
sturles	This is the number two reason for slowness.	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	i would guess the long list of ~250 option lines is longer than whatever list of mtgox currencies	[12:37]
mircea_popescu	which iirc was like 8.	[12:37]
sturles	A bit more: USD, AUD, CAD, CHF, CNY, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, NZD, PLN, RUB, SEK, SGD, THB	[12:38]
mircea_popescu	mkay...	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	so what, i can put an order to sell a bitcoin for 2 cad or 2.5 dkk ?	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	why's this a big deal /	[12:39]
sturles	Because the order has to be reflected in all order books.	[12:40]
sturles	At currency conversion rate +2.5%.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	so you get some order replication.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	um.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	wait, the conversion is not user specified ?	[12:40]
sturles	No.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	...	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	then ?	[12:40]
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sturles	Automatic.	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	don't be silly. there's no such thing. they query some service ?	[12:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 200 @ 0.0033331 = 0.6666 BTC [-]	[12:41]
sturles	They use the current ECB rate for currency conversion.	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	so then it's a magic number, they load it once a day	[12:42]
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mircea_popescu	i fail to see the big deal.	[12:42]
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sturles	Yes. The big deal is that one order book change becomes 16.	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	this is not a big deal, unless you're homebrew.	[12:43]
sturles	Rate changes may cause trades to happen-	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	seriously, this was an exercise in wasting my time.	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	mtgox still needs to get a real platform and professionalise.	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin geeks still need to give up the disease and get serious.	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	nothing changed.	[12:43]
sturles	mircea_popescu: What does homebrew has to do with anything?	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	you are sitting there and seriously telling me 16x replication is a big deal ?	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	this on top of the entire six doesn't come close to mtgox ?	[12:44]
sturles	Except showing lack of experience in IT.	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	listen, experience in it is a commodity. it's worth a salary, nothing more.	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	we are here in management territory. different beast.	[12:44]
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mircea_popescu	managers make %s.	[12:45]
sturles	You are still comparing apples and oranges. SIX != MtGox. Not even close. In so many ways I don't even bother to get started.	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	as far as i'm concerned the situation here is that you are grossly unqualified to discuss this matter and still insist to do so (because as per the texbook you also lack the metacognitive abilities that'd allow you to realise you're way off).	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	the only way this goes any further is we start insulting each other, so let's just leave it be.	[12:46]
sturles	And believe me -- I have tried many times to get expensive commercial solutions to difficult problems to work, and in most cases I end up with a much faster and better working homebrew solution. Commercial software developers do it for their salary, not for efficiency, elegance or anything else.	[12:48]
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ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[12:50]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 132.00000, Best ask: 132.98098, Bid-ask spread: 0.98098, Last trade: 131.83755, 24 hour volume: 125243.62956022, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.71252	[12:50]
sturles	If you think you can buy a better exchange and make it work better, then please go ahead. Everyone will encourage you to do so. If you are successful, you better be prepared for 100 Gbps DDoS attacks as well, but that should be no problem because every broker has a dedicated line. Right?	[12:50]
ThickAsThieves	;;nethash	[12:51]
gribble	59892.4976199	[12:51]
mircea_popescu	sturles you're not keeping up. i HAD 100gbps ddos	[12:51]
mircea_popescu	and i beat it.	[12:51]
mircea_popescu	did you read the articles in discussion ?	[12:51]
ThickAsThieves	nethash down 5%	[12:51]
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ThickAsThieves	;;goxlag	[12:52]
sturles	How nice for you. No. How many trades per second was the DDoS able to generate, btw?	[12:52]
gribble	MtGox lag is 40.399133 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0809594102008 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ten times between Saturn and Titan (0.0802 AU).	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	none, it being A DDOS.	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	but seriously, please inform yourself before starting discussions, this is unseemly.	[12:52]
ThickAsThieves	;;bc,stats	[12:52]
sturles	DDoS against MtGox is a bit more sophisticated then.	[12:52]
gribble	Current Blocks: 229633 \| Current Difficulty: 6695826.282596251 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 229823 \| Next Difficulty In: 190 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 3 hours, 18 minutes, and 19 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 7785577.676 \| Estimated Percent Change: 16.27508	[12:52]
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mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/mpex-ddosed-an-epic	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/the-many-ways-available-for-talking-to-mpex	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	that's a start.	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	look around there, then we can talk more.	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	and for the record, "mtgox ddos" is just mtgox crashing under sell pressure.	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	which, i would hope, you've read the most recent trilema article on and know how it was arrived at and why.	[12:53]
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ThickAsThieves	SDICE bids are way down, people are dumb	[12:54]
ThickAsThieves	but i'm enjoying it	[12:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18085 @ 0.00070861 = 12.8152 BTC [+]	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m s.dice	[12:55]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.0031 / 0.00311313 / 0.0035 (389309 shares, 1,211.97 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.00320452 / 0.00439992 (1029516 shares, 3,299.11 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00375453 / 0.006 (1726765 shares, 6,483.20 BTC)	[12:55]
*	Line_ (~Line@cpe-76-88-97-95.san.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[12:55]
ThickAsThieves	high bid is .00212	[12:55]
ThickAsThieves	similar on PTs	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	1k traded today wiped the bids ?	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	$depth s.dice	[12:56]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: S.DICE Bids: ['5000 @ 0.00212', '4000 @ 0.002101', '7500 @ 0.00123', '600 @ 0.001002', '100 @ 0.00100121']	[12:56]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: Asks: ['5291 @ 0.00333', '21363 @ 0.00333333', '700 @ 0.0035', '1500 @ 0.00389996', '29541 @ 0.00389997']	[12:56]
sturles	mircea_popescu: You should at leas try to inform yourself about the DDoS against MtGox before coming with uninformed nonsense "for the record".	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	sturles anything speciffic ?	[12:56]
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mircea_popescu	see, that's the problem here. when i tell you you have to read up i give you what to read up.	[12:58]
sturles	The pattern that has been repeated the last weeks is: DDoS starting against companies providing fast funding to MtGox, like Dwdolla, then a massive DDoS against MtGox, then only seconds later, massive selloff. Causing panic. Prolexis spends some time to mitigate the DDoS, and by then the panic is widespread.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	when you tell me to read up there's nothing there outside of very bad mtgox pr.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	except this is bull, but anyway.	[12:58]
sturles	It is from the mouth of MagicalTux.	[12:59]
sturles	Or keybopard.	[12:59]
ThickAsThieves	the Gox problems are good	[12:59]
ThickAsThieves	causes people to seek alternatives	[12:59]
ThickAsThieves	and Gox to man up	[12:59]
ThickAsThieves	maybe	[12:59]
sturles	I hope they continue. I profit massively during panics.	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	more power to you.	[12:59]
sturles	As long as they continue, I will be using MtGox. Hmm. Perhaps it is actually good for their business..	[13:00]
ThickAsThieves	people's rationale usually tends to lean toward where their profit is	[13:00]
ThickAsThieves	everyone that owns possibly too much asicminer stock, says "its underpriced!"	[13:01]
ThickAsThieves	if they sold too early "its overpriced!"	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	and if they happen to be used to something "it's great"	[13:01]
ThickAsThieves	right	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	and if they're too lazy to read on something else "it's bad"	[13:02]
ThickAsThieves	mmhm	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	and on and on. sure. intellectual lazyness is the main driver of human behaviour.	[13:02]
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mircea_popescu	but that aside, mtgox has been bleeding marketshare since late 2011	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	strictly for being inept in pretty much every aspect.	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	i wouldn't count on them being around much longer.	[13:03]
ThickAsThieves	they will probably flail with some ugly moves before letting go of this cash cow	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	yeah well...	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	but let's be optiomistic : they've been given a boon these coupla months	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	maybe they know what to do with it and reinvent themselves.	[13:04]
ThickAsThieves	like adding litecoin?	[13:05]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	it's all spelled out for them, they can just steal it uncredited like before for all i care.	[13:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.39 BTC [-]	[13:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.38 BTC [-]	[13:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.37 = 1.11 BTC [-]	[13:06]
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ThickAsThieves	$avg	[13:24]
mpexbot	ThickAsThieves: 127.34	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin has been stable for the past 24 hours gasp	[13:25]
Uglux	thank god for another shitstorm on gox	[13:25]
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ThickAsThieves	;;goxlag	[13:35]
gribble	MtGox lag is 0.056398 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.000113020960537 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin to the other side of the Earth, along the surface (0.0001339 AU).	[13:35]
ThickAsThieves	!	[13:35]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[13:35]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 133.14634, Best ask: 133.19999, Bid-ask spread: 0.05365, Last trade: 133.20000, 24 hour volume: 119965.62436588, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.58826	[13:35]
ThickAsThieves	i'm amazed that after all that the price held	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	why ?	[13:35]
ThickAsThieves	kinda had a feeling that the run up was caused by gox lag entirely	[13:36]
ThickAsThieves	and might be artificial	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	nah, it was all the press.	[13:36]
error4733	12K in mt gox queue	[13:36]
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ThickAsThieves	are you serious	[13:37]
ThickAsThieves	12000?	[13:37]
ThickAsThieves	where do i check that info again?	[13:37]
ThickAsThieves	i guess in the scheme of things its not a lot of people	[13:38]
ThickAsThieves	but its a lot more than usual	[13:38]
troc	rumour info, its what people report when they are in the queue	[13:38]
ThickAsThieves	ah	[13:38]
troc	also via fb : Last year, Mt.Gox saw an average of 9,000 to 10,000 new accounts created every month. This number doubled in January, tripled in February, and sextupled in March. In this month alone, over 57,000 new accounts were created!	[13:39]
Uglux	decentralize my ass	[13:39]
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MJR_	hi all	[13:41]
MJR_	anyone read gox's latest statement?	[13:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [O.USD.C167N] 3 @ 0.32508438 = 0.9753 BTC	[13:42]
ThickAsThieves	The N options just turn into T's at the end of the month, correct?	[13:43]
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ThickAsThieves	(for owner)	[13:44]
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bitesak	MJR_, yes and MP wrote a post about it http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/its-been-an-epic-few-days-what-happened/	[13:50]
deadweasel	;;ticker	[13:51]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 133.10000, Best ask: 133.15000, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 133.15000, 24 hour volume: 119390.78497527, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.53063	[13:51]
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MJR_	cool thanks...i was just going to point out the one pertinent fact	[13:52]
MJR_	5700 new accounts in march a new record	[13:52]
MJR_	current queue at 12600	[13:52]
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error4733	57000* i guess	[13:54]
bitesak	the pertinent fact is slightly in between the lines. The statement doesn't quite instill confidence.	[13:54]
error4733	please explain	[13:55]
KRS1337	if i have old account but never verified will i float to the top	[13:55]
KRS1337	ya think?	[13:55]
KRS1337	whats up MJR	[13:56]
MJR_	well, i am not talking about gox	[13:56]
MJR_	i don't care, i've never traded there and we all know they suck...let's move on to the next topic	[13:56]
MJR_	which would be increased adoption	[13:57]
MJR_	new accounts opened is a good metric for how much it's growing	[13:57]
MJR_	but I also thought that it was hilarious that they said "All exchanges suffer from lag"...yeah and we measure it in microseconds	[13:58]
MJR_	not minutes	[13:58]
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mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves yes, n turns to t	[14:07]
gesell	i highly doubt other exchanges would be prepared for such a DDoS. The issue is that people using other exchanges would make the target less obvious	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	gesell this is a solved problem.	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	have trade engine separate from broker/website,	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	use distributed methods to diffuse ddos.	[14:09]
gesell	yeah was also thinking about this but I guess it depends on the nature of the DDoS. If it is similar to that used against spamhaus a few weeks ago... the attacker could still induce panic by attacking the website and read only API to get ticker	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	again :	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	you have the trade engine separate	[14:10]
gesell	but in general spreading out the interfaces over different hauls could help, while also adding a lot of complexity	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	you can make one broker website per datacenter	[14:10]
gesell	i just aknowledge that	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	a ok	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	i think im getting a little frazzled i've been doing nothing but explaining this for the past 3 hours	[14:11]
gesell	did you read about the DDoS against spamhaus?	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	yeah	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	MJR_> but I also thought that it was hilarious that they said "All exchanges suffer from lag"...yeah and we measure it in microseconds << just had this discussion above, was explaining how six promises 37 microsecond delay	[14:11]
ChaangNoi	btct.co working?	[14:12]
ChaangNoi	;;asks147	[14:12]
gribble	Error: "asks147" is not a valid command.	[14:12]
ChaangNoi	;;asks 147	[14:13]
gribble	There are currently 11713.428 bitcoins offered at or under 147.0 USD, worth 1658048.18491 USD in total. \| Data vintage: 0.0017 seconds	[14:13]
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sturles	MJR_: MtGox reports lag in microseconds as well. I have been logging every minute for a while, and the most common value is 0. On a normal day with just a few standard DDoS attacks, it is above 1 second a few times every hour.	[14:16]
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mircea_popescu	i don't recall mtgoxlag under 1	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	;;goxlag	[14:17]
gribble	MtGox lag is 0 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ... nowhere, really (0 AU).	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	hey.	[14:17]
sturles	Heh. :-)	[14:17]
ChaangNoi	btct.co is fail for me, they being ddosed?	[14:17]
sturles	SIX doesn't provide API access to the entire internet. Can't compare it.	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	mtgox 10.84 a few seconds ago 133.50	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	mtgox 0.08 a minute ago 133.33	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	mtgox 5.12 4 minutes ago 133.50	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	mtgox 48.50 7 minutes ago 133.30	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	mtgox 0.25 7 minutes ago 133.00	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	is that a full list of the last trades ?	[14:18]
sturles	Where is it from?	[14:18]
ChaangNoi	yeah it looks like no one can make trades	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	bitcoinity	[14:19]
ChaangNoi	or no one is for whatever reason,	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	ChaangNoi http://btct.co/ doesn't load here. do i have the wrong url ?	[14:19]
ChaangNoi	its one of the exchanges	[14:19]
ThickAsThieves	its down	[14:19]
ThickAsThieves	as is litecoinglobal.com	[14:20]
ChaangNoi	the stock exchanges	[14:20]
ChaangNoi	hmm	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[14:20]
ThickAsThieves	both burnside's sites	[14:20]
ThickAsThieves	this has happened before	[14:20]
sturles	mircea_popescu: Doesn't look like it. Seems to be USD only. Much of the trading on MtGox is in other currencies.	[14:20]
ChaangNoi	yeah, i was just trying ot take out money lol	[14:20]
ThickAsThieves	he's probably rebooting or something	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	so let's see : the part where i say "attacker has found his weak spot, moves on" is pretty accurate.	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	now the part where mtgox comes out with self congratulatory bit remains.	[14:20]
ThickAsThieves	maybe adding a feature	[14:20]
ChaangNoi	ok	[14:20]
ThickAsThieves	maybe stealing your money	[14:21]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[14:21]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves i'll bet its ddos	[14:21]
mircea_popescu	sturles most of their volume is usd.	[14:21]
ChaangNoi	seems like its back	[14:21]
mircea_popescu	i still don't see it	[14:22]
sturles	mircea_popescu: Yes, many trades are mix-trades between e.g. EUR and USD. And most other currency trades are low in volume.	[14:22]
ChaangNoi	lol worked until i wanted to take out money, broke again	[14:22]
mircea_popescu	sturles i dunno what mix trades means there.	[14:22]
sturles	The other currency order books are also stuffed with lots and lots of 0.01235 orders. Which makes many trades for just one coin.	[14:23]
sturles	A mix trade is where an order in one currency was matched with an order in another currency.	[14:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.75679 BTC [-]	[14:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7568 BTC [+]	[14:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.756899 = 4.5414 BTC [+]	[14:24]
mircea_popescu	i still don't grasp why you imagine this'd make a difference.	[14:25]
sturles	Also note that many sites reporting MtGox trades aggregates many small trades into one report. Like this example from #bitcoin-market:	[14:25]
sturles	13:24 <+amphipod> Apr04 11:24:18 mtgox x11 28.8811 @ 133.42578222 USD	[14:25]
sturles	11 trades making up a total 28.8811 BTC at the average price of 133.42578222 USD.	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	so find me a space where that bot reports > 100 trades a minute.	[14:26]
sturles	16 order books to check instad of one. Why would that make 0 difference?	[14:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.00301 BTC [+]	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	...	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	this is like saying querying 5000 records is not the same thing as querying 5000 records.	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	either you don't at all understand the topic or are trolling me.	[14:27]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.757 = 1.514 BTC [+]	[14:28]
ChaangNoi	gox lag is back up	[14:28]
ChaangNoi	;;goxlag	[14:28]
gribble	MtGox lag is 37.58024 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0753103801907 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ten times between Saturn and Titan (0.0802 AU).	[14:28]
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sturles	10:31 <+amphipod> Apr04 08:29:07 mtgox x149 555.6407 @ 133.52494269 USD	[14:29]
sturles	Several other trades during the same minute.	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	well the 0 lag was nice while it lasted.	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	sturles a little more than just the one line if you don't mind	[14:30]
sturles	Join the channel youself if you care so much.	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	i am trying to help you structure your own argument.	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	i care not at all otherwise.	[14:31]
sturles	Why should I quote more? There are more than 100 right there. And I tild you there were trades before and after during the same minute.	[14:32]
sturles	But because #bitcoin-market reports trades from most exchanges, there are several unimpoprtant lines in between.	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	because the aggregated set would logically be from between the previous and the next report	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	and so it's prbably the bot aggregated 149 trades over 5 minutes or something	[14:33]
sturles	No, I told you, there were otehr (aggregated) trades reported in the same minute, before and after.	[14:34]
sturles	I'm not going to paste everything here. Will get dropped for flooding.	[14:34]
sturles	Just join the channel to see for yourself.	[14:35]
mircea_popescu	mk	[14:35]
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ThickAsThieves	why is the ATH being reported as 142	[14:38]
ThickAsThieves	wasnt it 147?	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	because they dunno what they're doing	[14:40]
error4733	;;ticker	[14:45]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 135.90500, Best ask: 136.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.09500, Last trade: 136.00000, 24 hour volume: 115725.71210364, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.07562	[14:45]
TradeFortress	was the ATH less than 24 hrs ago?	[14:46]
error4733	bc 147 was 27h ago	[14:46]
ThickAsThieves	sh	[14:46]
ThickAsThieves	ah	[14:46]
ThickAsThieves	oh	[14:46]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[14:46]
*	DeaDTerra1 (~DeaDTerra@226.169.216.81.static.apv.siw.siwnet.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:47]
error4733	;;goxlag	[14:47]
gribble	MtGox lag is 26.943103 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.053993676742 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin approximately the distance covered by Voyager 1 in one week (0.0689 AU).	[14:47]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.00479 BTC [+]	[14:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00475 BTC [+]	[14:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 20 @ 0.000657 = 0.0131 BTC [-]	[14:52]
ThickAsThieves	;;nethash	[14:52]
gribble	59843.2905525	[14:52]
ThickAsThieves	;;estimate	[14:52]
gribble	Next difficulty estimate \| 7779848.36874 based on data since last change \| 8359883.55097 based on data for last three days	[14:53]
ThickAsThieves	need more hashing	[14:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4125 @ 0.00069631 = 2.8723 BTC [-]	[14:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 13 @ 0.00475 = 0.0618 BTC [+]	[14:55]
jurov	sturles, highest mpex trade spike i have recorded in live.coinbr records is 100 trades/5 seconds on BitBet IPO	[14:56]
jurov	there was no noticeable lag at all, coinbr users ninja-inserted orders in the middle of it	[14:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 88 @ 0.00401 = 0.3529 BTC [-]	[14:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.0038 BTC [-]	[14:57]
ThickAsThieves	ninjas, the missing ingredient	[14:57]
jurov	and there was certainly 1000 orders arriving/cancelled during that time	[14:57]
jurov	don't tell me mtgox can do this	[14:58]
error4733	Ddos attak :(	[14:59]
ThickAsThieves	;;goxlag	[14:59]
gribble	MtGox lag is 83.288833 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.166909888784 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ten times between Jupiter and Callisto (0.12567 AU).	[14:59]
ThickAsThieves	who is next line after Gox?	[14:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.00315 = 0.315 BTC [-]	[14:59]
ThickAsThieves	in	[14:59]
MJR_	i just received a business inquiry...the email was in comic sans	[15:00]
ThickAsThieves	srs bsns	[15:00]
MJR_	i know	[15:00]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 11 @ 0.00315 = 0.0347 BTC [-]	[15:00]
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MJR_	i'm like...is this your first time using a keyboard?	[15:00]
ThickAsThieves	I taught someone that has been using Windows for at least 10 years how to Alt-Tab the other day. "I need to hang around you more often!"	[15:02]
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ThickAsThieves	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166397.0 I wonder what they say to these guys inquiring about investing millions in bitcoins	[15:07]
ThickAsThieves	"sorry sir, that's too many bitcoins, you'd break the system"	[15:07]
error4733	btc at 500$ before summer ?	[15:08]
ThickAsThieves	i hope so/not	[15:09]
error4733	same :D	[15:09]
mircea_popescu	jasmine tea and fresghly baked chocolate muffins. life sux dunnit.	[15:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4518 @ 0.0006928 = 3.1301 BTC [-]	[15:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2924 @ 0.00069168 = 2.0225 BTC [-]	[15:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2508 @ 0.00069137 = 1.734 BTC [-]	[15:11]
ThickAsThieves	i got some nice jasmine tea recently, the fancy kind you put in a metal ball :)	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	yeah	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	there's this little shop just opened, very good quality stuffs.	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves don't believe everything you read in the newspapers btw.	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	20 calls a day for 100mn each ? 2bn a day ? yeah. right.	[15:15]
MJR_	my coworker gets me green tea from taiwan	[15:15]
MJR_	its good	[15:15]
MJR_	ThickAsThieves: lol...its crazy when you hang out with people who understand computers and then get confronted with "can we just make all of them blue" (select all)	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	casascius: Thanks for the excellent feedback.	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	mpoe-pr: If this is excellent I bet nobody eats what you cook.	[15:20]
kakobrekla	http://bou.si/pic/where-it-belongs.jpg	[15:20]
error4733	mp : i guess is 20 calls a day for a total 100M$, i want belive hehe	[15:24]
error4733	still pocket change for big player	[15:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8486 @ 0.00069365 = 5.8863 BTC [+]	[15:27]
ThickAsThieves	oh i didnt actually believe people wanna invest 100m	[15:29]
ThickAsThieves	just playing along :)	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	OJ to pump $1.4 trillion into economy	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	aand here i am trying to keep things civil ;/	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	error4733 yeah bullcrap.	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	there's not that many funds that have the sort of capital that'd allow them tio place 100mn into exotic weird thing, and also have the rifght profile.	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	none of them are calling unheard of whoever that guy is cause i don't know him	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	basically the media has turned into a sort of massive reddit, buncha people trying to perch themselves into the stratosphere	[15:32]
error4733	usualy i bet a good dinner in this case but roumania is to far if i win	[15:34]
gesell	mircea_popescu: on that last point, i agree	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	error4733 what're we betting ?	[15:35]
error4733	no big player for 100M$+ before summer	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	let's do some math.	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[15:37]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 137.60001, Best ask: 137.99999, Bid-ask spread: 0.39998, Last trade: 137.99999, 24 hour volume: 115568.41634731, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.00000, 24 hour vwap: 127.02546	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m s.dice	[15:37]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.0031 / 0.00311313 / 0.0035 (389309 shares, 1,211.97 BTC), 7D: 0.0031 / 0.00320452 / 0.00439992 (1029516 shares, 3,299.11 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00375305 / 0.006 (1725125 shares, 6,474.50 BTC)	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	;;calc .13 * 311313 * 127.02546	[15:37]
gribble	5140808.01377	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	so that's about 5mn worth of outstanding s.dice stock. about the same worth of s.mpoe.	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	what's your 100mn guy to do, buy bitcoins and hold them ?	[15:38]
ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 25000	[15:40]
gribble	A market order to buy 25000 bitcoins right now would take 3717531.0041 USD and would take the last price up to 169.9000 USD, resulting in an average price of 148.7012 USD/BTC. \| Data vintage: 0.0014 seconds	[15:40]
ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 100000	[15:40]
gribble	This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 55695.451 bitcoins, for a total of 14145613197667.5664 USD and take the price to 9999999999998.9004. \| Data vintage: 11.2836 seconds	[15:40]
ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 50000	[15:41]
gribble	A market order to buy 50000 bitcoins right now would take 14003105.1552 USD and would take the last price up to 1365.0843 USD, resulting in an average price of 280.0621 USD/BTC. \| Data vintage: 27.9421 seconds	[15:41]
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ThickAsThieves	;;market buy 75000	[15:41]
gribble	This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 55695.451 bitcoins, for a total of 14145613197667.5664 USD and take the price to 9999999999998.9004. \| Data vintage: 45.4887 seconds	[15:41]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[15:41]
ThickAsThieves	simply not enough bitcoins for $100m	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	besides, if you have a fund that sorta-fits the profile (exotic/emergent money market)	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	and 1bn+ under management	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	you may risk as much as 1-2mn. maybe 10mn if you're really huge.	[15:43]
ThickAsThieves	1m i could see	[15:44]
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mircea_popescu	https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/bitcoin-and-silk-road-1385/#396095-acknowledgement-letter	[15:44]
ThickAsThieves	interesting	[15:45]
ThickAsThieves	old	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	ya, just... no answer.	[15:46]
ThickAsThieves	they just keep giving the same answer	[15:46]
ThickAsThieves	what are their obligations?	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	i never followed the foia stuffi n the us	[15:48]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 5 @ 0.38 = 1.9 BTC [+]	[15:52]
error4733	re	[15:54]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.7568 = 2.2704 BTC [-]	[16:02]
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ThickAsThieves	http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/bullseye-from-1000-yards-shooting-the-17000-linux-powered-rifle/	[16:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.39 = 0.78 BTC [+]	[16:06]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[16:12]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 140.80000, Best ask: 141.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.20000, Last trade: 140.80000, 24 hour volume: 121358.82585477, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.64149	[16:12]
ThickAsThieves	;;goxlag	[16:13]
gribble	MtGox lag is 23.416337 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0469260771656 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin ten times between Earth and Moon (0.0257 AU).	[16:13]
ThickAsThieves	$avg	[16:13]
mpexbot	ThickAsThieves: 127.43	[16:13]
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mircea_popescu	it boggles me how the heck did sturles manage to reference gox lag the ONE TIME in the past... um... 6 months ?!	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	when it wasn;t like 20-2000 seconds	[16:16]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 1 @ 0.01998 BTC [+]	[16:19]
ThickAsThieves	hehe	[16:19]
ThickAsThieves	;;goxlag	[16:19]
gribble	MtGox lag is 23.913118 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.0479216207274 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin approximately the distance covered by Voyager 1 in one week (0.0689 AU).	[16:19]
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pigeons	topace: any word on rebroadcasting those transactions?	[16:31]
ThickAsThieves	i have a withdrawal in limbo from havelock :/	[16:34]
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ThickAsThieves	pm	[16:34]
ThickAsThieves	pm'd topace earlier no response yet	[16:35]
sturles	;;goxlag	[16:35]
gribble	MtGox lag is 0.076872 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.000154050627298 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin to the other side of the Earth, along the surface (0.0001339 AU).	[16:35]
ThickAsThieves	sturles controls goxlag!	[16:35]
sturles	Not really. You probably don't check it unless you know it is high.	[16:35]
ThickAsThieves	i check it whenever i wanna get the ticker these days	[16:36]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[16:36]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 138.66502, Best ask: 138.99998, Bid-ask spread: 0.33496, Last trade: 138.66500, 24 hour volume: 122517.04310522, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.75884	[16:36]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 273 @ 0.0032999 = 0.9009 BTC [-]	[16:39]
damientrog	does anybody know why the S.DICE stock keeps dropping?	[16:39]
ThickAsThieves	because people keep selling	[16:40]
damientrog	I know this month won't be much in dividend, but is there something else going on?	[16:40]
damientrog	really? :)	[16:40]
ThickAsThieves	:)	[16:40]
ThickAsThieves	i think that many people didnt realize there was no profit yet	[16:40]
damientrog	Erik didn't run off to Belize or something?	[16:41]
ThickAsThieves	some still might not	[16:41]
error4733	no	[16:41]
damientrog	alright thanks	[16:41]
ThickAsThieves	once divs and report are issued that will be real test of price	[16:41]
error4733	btc rally kill S.dice	[16:41]
ThickAsThieves	that also,	[16:41]
ThickAsThieves	people that wanna cash out	[16:41]
ThickAsThieves	need to sell their stocks	[16:41]
damientrog	yeah isn't the report overdue?	[16:41]
error4733	x11 since january	[16:41]
damientrog	that could also explain	[16:42]
MJR_	report is due by tomorrow	[16:42]
error4733	real value of s.dice didnt increase that much	[16:42]
ThickAsThieves	panic usually results in loss	[16:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8743 @ 0.00069365 = 6.0646 BTC [+]	[16:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9157 @ 0.00069803 = 6.3919 BTC [+]	[16:42]
error4733	it's a loss	[16:42]
MJR_	but real value of sdice hasn't dropped	[16:42]
MJR_	and its a great company	[16:42]
error4733	i sold.. because i didnt want lose any BTC	[16:42]
damientrog	I don't see how a casino can go that wrong	[16:43]
damientrog	seems like a low risk investment	[16:43]
error4733	yes but not x11 in 3 month	[16:43]
ThickAsThieves	error who are you? why not fix your username	[16:43]
MJR_	it hasn't really gone wrong	[16:43]
ThickAsThieves	or is that real?	[16:43]
MJR_	over time it will even out	[16:43]
error4733	its real	[16:43]
damientrog	indeed	[16:43]
ThickAsThieves	ah	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	yeah isn't the report overdue? << should be today or tomorrow.	[16:43]
MJR_	they had one month where a couple of bit losses hit	[16:43]
damientrog	yeah even the house loses sometimes	[16:43]
ThickAsThieves	in my opinion Sdice is worth no less than when it was trading at .007	[16:44]
damientrog	over time that compensates	[16:44]
damientrog	exactly	[16:44]
ThickAsThieves	surely erik will have developments soon	[16:44]
damientrog	he did announce that on the forum	[16:44]
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error4733	we didnt talk about losse or wining, if btc was at 13$, i dont care about a shitty div	[16:44]
error4733	one month	[16:44]
pgp	when it comes to gambling, people still think in fiat terms...	[16:44]
error4733	her i talk about S.dice marketcap	[16:45]
ThickAsThieves	its not impossible for sdice to lower bid limit	[16:46]
pgp	what is is now - $50MM now?	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	about.	[16:46]
pgp	how about MPOE? $75MM?	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	over 100	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	!ticker m s.mpoe	[16:48]
assbot	[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00067393 / 0.00069724 / 0.00070861 (286436 shares, 199.71 BTC), 7D: 0.00059218 / 0.00066086 / 0.00070861 (2774297 shares, 1,833.43 BTC), 30D: 0.00059218 / 0.00071925 / 0.00077505 (16002312 shares, 11,509.74 BTC)	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[16:48]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 138.15000, Best ask: 138.70000, Bid-ask spread: 0.55000, Last trade: 138.00000, 24 hour volume: 122772.25005439, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.78223	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 719250 * 138	[16:48]
gribble	99256500	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	or just a little under.	[16:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7567 BTC [-]	[16:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7568 BTC [+]	[16:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.757 = 6.056 BTC [+]	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	http://www.cnbc.com/id/100615508	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	heh	[16:51]
pgp	interesting contrast - SDICE and MPOE - in terms of USD/BTC elasticity...	[16:51]
error4733	i see btc at 500$ in no time, S.dice just can worth 250m$, so it's a quick calcul, it's better for me to cashout	[16:51]
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error4733	cant*	[16:51]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00358 BTC [+]	[16:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 23 @ 0.00359 = 0.0826 BTC [+]	[16:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 55 @ 0.00368 = 0.2024 BTC [+]	[16:55]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00367 BTC [-]	[16:55]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.33999999 BTC [+]	[16:56]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 570 @ 0.0037 = 2.109 BTC [+]	[16:56]
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pgp	somebosy just wished me happy 404 day...	[16:56]
pgp	somebody	[16:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 570 @ 0.00333 = 1.8981 BTC [+]	[16:57]
pgp	what is this world coming to?	[16:57]
MJR_	happy 404 day	[16:57]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.1 BTC [-]	[16:58]
ThickAsThieves	you know what is the worst, when you use your Kuerig for how water for your tea, but someone left a coffee k-cup inside	[16:58]
ThickAsThieves	end up with nasty coftea	[16:58]
mircea_popescu	error4733 sorry but 500 ain't happening	[16:59]
mircea_popescu	not in no time.	[16:59]
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pgp	not in no time = in time	[17:00]
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mircea_popescu	right.	[17:01]
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error4733	yes, i'm sure you told me that for 150 back in january (btc@13$)	[17:03]
mircea_popescu	quote me ?	[17:04]
error4733	just kididng	[17:04]
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error4733	but srsly x11 in 3 month, why not x3 before summer ?	[17:07]
ThickAsThieves	when is summer June 20?	[17:08]
ThickAsThieves	i forget	[17:08]
pgp	certainly possible, but I wouldn't be cheering for it... then bitcoin will really be at risk of being in a bubble	[17:08]
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deadweasely	;;ticker	[17:09]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 136.53335, Best ask: 136.95000, Bid-ask spread: 0.41665, Last trade: 136.95000, 24 hour volume: 122772.25005439, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.78223	[17:09]
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ThickAsThieves	BTC would need to rise $4.7 per day to be $500 by June 20	[17:10]
ThickAsThieves	June 21	[17:10]
ThickAsThieves	er	[17:10]
ThickAsThieves	US summer	[17:11]
error4733	ok middle of summer	[17:11]
deadweasely	and 2.65 per day to be at $205 by may 1	[17:12]
error4733	"hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000"	[17:12]
bitcoin_raider	I am interested in purchasing shares of companies which issue dividends in BTC. Has anyone else here done this?	[17:13]
ThickAsThieves	yes its entirely possible	[17:13]
ThickAsThieves	but too fast	[17:13]
ThickAsThieves	imo	[17:13]
ThickAsThieves	bitcoin_raider, yes	[17:13]
ThickAsThieves	but do your research	[17:13]
ThickAsThieves	and then do more	[17:14]
MJR_	good time to buy sdice	[17:14]
MJR_	undervalued IMO	[17:14]
bitcoin_raider	ThickAsThieves: thanks - I looked at sdice and their offering statement	[17:14]
error4733	ASCIMINER	[17:15]
bitcoin_raider	Are there any businesses which you would invest in that aren't exclusivley based on bitcoin ecosystem?	[17:15]
Bugpowder	yes, they are listed on NASDAQ	[17:16]
deadweasely	:)	[17:16]
ThickAsThieves	decent answer	[17:16]
bitcoin_raider	=)	[17:16]
ThickAsThieves	bitbet is starting to look interesting	[17:16]
bitcoin_raider	I own a business that sells physical things for both USD and BTC (we exhibit at defcon) and am considering trying to take it public on one of the BTC exchanges... I like the verified accounting it provides	[17:16]
ThickAsThieves	what do you sell	[17:17]
bitcoin_raider	RFID blcoking wallets	[17:17]
bitcoin_raider	what would I need to do/prove/etc to make a legit IPO offering. I see most just post their financials in a google doc	[17:18]
bitcoin_raider	but I don't seem to trust those	[17:18]
ThickAsThieves	do what you would want to see if YOU were an investor	[17:19]
ThickAsThieves	someone can link you to the MPOE-PR post	[17:20]
troc	blockchain stats ?	[17:20]
ThickAsThieves	elephants?	[17:20]
pigeons	ThickAsThieves: topace i got my withdrawl	[17:21]
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ThickAsThieves	me too	[17:22]
ThickAsThieves	now just have to wait 5 years for it to confirm	[17:22]
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mircea_popescu	yeah, error4733 , it's not a why not as much as a why risk it	[17:27]
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mircea_popescu	peopl seriously need to start adding tx fees.	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	what's this crazy stingyness	[17:29]
MJR_	looking forward to the day that companies are more focused on the product they make than the currency they use to finance their operations	[17:30]
mircea_popescu	^	[17:30]
MJR_	it's a little gimmicky right now	[17:30]
MJR_	sorry mircea_popescu, i cut off your arrow	[17:30]
mircea_popescu	no i just meant, yeah, me too.	[17:30]
deadweasely	mp, i sent .001 btc fee for 10btc txn, took 9 hours for first confirm... we need a minimum fee schedule that people can choose to use or ignore.	[17:34]
deadweasely	i didnt know .0015 was expected	[17:34]
Bugpowder	wat? .001 is slow now?	[17:34]
Bugpowder	i've been using .0006	[17:34]
pgp	i thought .0005 was good enough	[17:35]
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pgp	it's not like the miners are starving right now...	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	deadweasely o.o	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	this is insanity, my 0.001 stuff confirms next-block	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	are you running a very isolated node ?	[17:35]
Bugpowder	I figure .0006 is just enough to beat S.DICE	[17:36]
ThickAsThieves	it has been slow even with tx fee	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	fucking hell.	[17:36]
ThickAsThieves	dunno what topace includes	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	boys, we're getting connectivity problems. it's not the fees	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	the graph is splitting up ;/	[17:36]
ThickAsThieves	miners fuckin shit up	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	if you're in the wrong island and that island doesn't solve blocks you don;'t get in	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	no, it's not the miners	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	it's the nodes. too few nodes. argh	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	jborkl are you getting anywhere with that network mapping thing ?	[17:37]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[17:53]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com/	[17:53]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 13 14:15:50 2013	[17:53]
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kakobrekla	at least bbet is back up :p	[17:58]
jcpham	http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/04/my-bitcoin-mis-adventure.html	[17:59]
jcpham	oh god please read it	[17:59]
mircea_popescu	ok, i'll read it.	[18:00]
jcpham	oh man	[18:01]
jcpham	that's a really good one	[18:01]
jcpham	"But I press on, because my mercurial editor is emailing me, “When are you filing that bitcoin story!??” every five seconds."	[18:01]
[\]	awesome read	[18:02]
[\]	I seriously LOL	[18:02]
mircea_popescu	Totally worth the $6.76, if you ask me.	[18:02]
mircea_popescu	mkay	[18:02]
mircea_popescu	"erotic self-hypnosis" < wtf is that ?	[18:03]
jcpham	can't tell if trolling or serious	[18:03]
jcpham	think that's what i like the most	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	lol	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	ya well done in that respek	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	that guy should be here, someone invite him	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	we need more dub in this chan.	[18:04]
ColdHardMetal	hey! he went with the cigar guys. nice.	[18:06]
ColdHardMetal	jcpham link guy i mena.	[18:06]
ColdHardMetal	mean.	[18:06]
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jcpham	he discusses thing to do with bitcoins but makes himself out to be an idiot	[18:06]
MJR_	yes	[18:07]
jcpham	i like it	[18:07]
MJR_	self-effacing	[18:07]
MJR_	great tactic	[18:07]
MJR_	and he didn't sugarcoat anything	[18:07]
MJR_	good point of view of average guy trying to figure this out	[18:07]
mircea_popescu	srsly someone drop him a webirc link to here	[18:07]
ColdHardMetal	which he did, which is a good sign.	[18:08]
MJR_	;;ticker	[18:08]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 133.67978, Best ask: 134.49999, Bid-ask spread: 0.82021, Last trade: 134.49900, 24 hour volume: 128583.01835679, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 128.11103	[18:08]
mircea_popescu	if anyone's still under the misaprehension that mtgox sucking has anything to do with the dead rally...	[18:08]
mircea_popescu	price's stable. mtgox is also stable.	[18:08]
MJR_	i thought you put the kibosh on that	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	when raly bust people jumped on mtgox, it went to shit like it always does	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	ddos mystery solved.	[18:09]
MJR_	;)	[18:09]
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MJR_	lol	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	(which isn't to say they're not being hit, they are, but the two are unrelated)	[18:09]
MJR_	they truly were a victim of their own success...they can't tell page views from ddos...	[18:09]
MJR_	by that logic facebook is getting "DDOS'd" every day	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	no it's just a convenient explanation you know ?	[18:10]
MJR_	well yeah	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	"we had two issues. one is that we suck, the other is that we got ddosed"	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	doesn't make the cut for the mtgox school of pr.	[18:10]
MJR_	hahhahas	[18:10]
MJR_	funny that they didn't go on bitcointalk to respond	[18:10]
MJR_	would have liked to see mpoe-pr get on that	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	fucking ridiculous they're scared of her.	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	what's she got on them, tits ?	[18:11]
smickles	i certainly don't have tits like hers	[18:12]
smickles	so i lose, i guess	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	well yeah... you're not cool as t-bone	[18:13]
smickles	heh, i'm poor, so i loose to t-bone	[18:13]
*	smickles too moony ooos	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	you're poor now ?!	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	what did you do, follow Bugpowder's investment advice ?	[18:14]
smickles	are we talking about the same t-bone?	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	tibanne	[18:14]
smickles	ah, not at all	[18:14]
smickles	oh yeah, you ignored the t-bone i was thinking of	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	o ?	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	https://www.tibanne.com/ << if anyone missed this.	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	Our services	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	01. shot.dns.st: create screenshots of websites	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	03. NoSpam.st: create temporary email	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	05. fullXP: professional streaming	[18:15]
smickles	you missed the link factory and irc net	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141458.msg1740085#msg1740085	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	what am i telling the girl to tell him ? hm ? HM ?!?!?!?!?!	[18:16]
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mircea_popescu	smickles my bad	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	luckily with [\] on mpex' side we outinovate tibanne, the irc net providers.	[18:17]
MJR_	smickles: you meant tiberiusiv right?	[18:20]
mircea_popescu	o did you ? totally missed it lol.	[18:21]
mircea_popescu	hey, is copumpkin's irl pw:rn actually pebbles ?! what sorcery is this!	[18:21]
smickles	MJR_: yup	[18:21]
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smickles	i was going to pay off my car loan with bitcoin, but they'll only take usd, so i have to sell the btc first	[18:22]
smickles	too bad	[18:22]
[\]	bitpay!	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	i was gonna pay my rent in chocolate	[18:23]
smickles	[\]: sry, i sold ~20kusd worth at 140	[18:23]
mircea_popescu	but the landlady was only taking currency so we just ate the chocolate and then made out.	[18:23]
[\]	nice	[18:24]
[\]	http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/04/investing/bitcoin-atms/	[18:24]
[\]	made the cnn front page	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	that shit coming soon since jan	[18:25]
smickles	man, yeah	[18:25]
pgp	bitcoin ATM just seems awkward to me...	[18:26]
smickles	i bet they'd work on college campuses	[18:27]
jcpham	i kinda want to convince a collections attorney to accept btc as payment for credit card collections	[18:28]
jcpham	seems elegantly backwards	[18:28]
pgp	i agree...	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	lol elegantly backwards	[18:28]
jcpham	the world really needs that type of irony	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	you people are s o anal, you know that ?	[18:28]
pgp	call me a luddite, but I just don't get it...	[18:28]
jcpham	i love anal	[18:28]
[\]	mircea_popescu, no, thats illegal	[18:28]
mircea_popescu	[\] maybe where you live. over here it's mandatory for underage females.	[18:29]
jcpham	what the fuck is this you people shit	[18:29]
KRS-1	heh	[18:29]
jcpham	con·de·scend	[18:29]
jcpham	Verb	[18:29]
jcpham	Show feelings of superiority; patronize.	[18:29]
jcpham	Do something in a haughty way, as though it is below one's dignity or level of importance.	[18:29]
[\]	superiority complex	[18:30]
[\]	it happens	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	jcpham i just thought you're legion.	[18:30]
jcpham	trolololo	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	also note that people does not have a singular. but if you prefer i'll refer to you as "you peopl" in the future.	[18:30]
jcpham	i'm pretty sure i've never said "you people"	[18:30]
jcpham	too much time spent with mpoe-pr	[18:30]
[\]	heh	[18:30]
mircea_popescu	now that may be.	[18:30]
[\]	gota jet	[18:31]
jcpham	tact.	[18:31]
*	[\] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	she sucks the tact right out of ya, true.	[18:31]
MJR_	the atm finally solves liquidity	[18:31]
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MJR_	what do you do at a store that doesn't accept credit cards?	[18:31]
pgp	c'mon	[18:31]
MJR_	same shit	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	MJR_ chocolate coins!	[18:31]
MJR_	you run across the street to an atm	[18:31]
MJR_	get cash	[18:31]
MJR_	this is normal and everyday stuff	[18:32]
pgp	bitcoin ATM = jump the shark	[18:32]
MJR_	huh? i need to be able to spend my money...	[18:32]
MJR_	think of bitcoin as a credit card like discover which no one takes	[18:32]
MJR_	so i am going to need to get cash at times	[18:33]
MJR_	but i don't want to HOLD cash	[18:33]
MJR_	i just want to SPEND cash	[18:33]
MJR_	this is so obvious and simple of an idea that i can't even see why there would be a debate	[18:33]
MJR_	like i'm starting a bank, we don't need atm's?	[18:34]
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MJR_	its way more convenient to engage in trading online when i want to get a jameson and hang out	[18:34]
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MJR_	i also love the week wait for the cash	[18:34]
pgp	they are going to have the same sorts of problems that coinbase has...	[18:34]
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MJR_	no	[18:34]
MJR_	they won't if they are smart	[18:34]
MJR_	theirs goes both ways	[18:35]
MJR_	so they can replenish cash	[18:35]
[\]	right	[18:35]
MJR_	without getting more cash	[18:35]
MJR_	because you are actually providing a means for me to transfer all my fiat into btc	[18:35]
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MJR_	whenever i need to spend, i just withdraw	[18:35]
MJR_	whenever i get paid, i just deposit	[18:35]
MJR_	simple	[18:35]
MJR_	bitcoin will never take over every transaction	[18:36]
MJR_	nor should it	[18:36]
MJR_	let cash do what its good at	[18:36]
MJR_	let bitcoin do what it's good at	[18:36]
smickles	get out of here you sensible fuck!	[18:36]
MJR_	lol	[18:36]
MJR_	smickles: you are the best	[18:36]
smickles	;D	[18:36]
smickles	I do try from time to time.	[18:36]
MJR_	the point is that eventually bitcoin should not be a novelty	[18:37]
MJR_	it should just be an everyday fact of life that fades into the background	[18:37]
[\]	should it?	[18:37]
MJR_	yes...did you read the daily beast?	[18:37]
[\]	I've read a bunch of articles	[18:37]
MJR_	no one ever will go through that shit unless they are writing an article	[18:37]
pgp	i hear your arguments, but my gut tells me that it probably won't work as smoothly as one would hope and the logistics will be a problem	[18:37]
[\]	aye	[18:38]
[\]	just wiat until a government decides it doesn't like it	[18:38]
MJR_	...its already been done	[18:38]
pgp	what about fees? and conversion rates?	[18:38]
troc	it will take 25 years plus for it to fade	[18:38]
MJR_	that is just algorithms...atm's are already connected to the network by design	[18:38]
MJR_	in fact, mircea_popescu had a great article called "the magic money machine"	[18:38]
smickles	3% fee, used the 24h weighted avg	[18:38]
MJR_	which basically speaks to this	[18:38]
MJR_	yeah, withdrawal get less dollars, deposit get less bitcoins	[18:39]
smickles	if you really want to get fancy, use 3% minimum, and raise it based on the latest standard deviation	[18:39]
MJR_	but unparralleled convenience	[18:39]
pgp	a bitcoin ATM assumes that there is a market for people who want to constantly transact between fiat and bitcoin - those people will be sensitive to the exchange rate and fees	[18:39]
MJR_	this is my ultimate long term vision of the system of the world...atm's everywhere that run mining nodes in a pool, they connect to an exchange and automatically buy and sell based on the demand...once it scales up, you will have a HUGE stabilizing influence	[18:40]
smickles	i think the atm is for Convenience	[18:40]
MJR_	exactly	[18:40]
MJR_	i want to buy a burger	[18:40]
MJR_	i'm not withdrawing my life savings	[18:40]
MJR_	but i need to get $20 out of a hot wallet	[18:40]
ThickAsThieves	atm is also for people who somehow think itll be easier to buy bitcoin there than on the interweb	[18:41]
MJR_	without doing ACH transfer	[18:41]
pgp	cart before the horse...	[18:41]
MJR_	well...that makes it super easy	[18:41]
MJR_	if a lot of people want to BUY bitcoins...i can buy them on the exchanges automatically	[18:41]
MJR_	and sell them	[18:41]
MJR_	while they refill my atm's for me	[18:41]
MJR_	look, no bank ever said "hey, let's get ONE ATM...that should be enough"	[18:41]
pgp	so long as gox is at the center of it - it will be a costly investment for first round funding guys...	[18:41]
MJR_	gox won't be	[18:42]
MJR_	of course	[18:42]
MJR_	with that kind of liquidity	[18:42]
MJR_	you will surpass gox	[18:42]
smickles	a bitcoin atm could be the easiest way to send money to a friend, each of you just goes to an atm	[18:42]
MJR_	403,000 ATMs in the US	[18:42]
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MJR_	exactly	[18:42]
MJR_	it is convenient	[18:42]
MJR_	people pay 4% currently for bitinstant	[18:42]
MJR_	cheaper, easier and faster	[18:43]
MJR_	and most people won't be cashing out their whole savings...they want spending money and to let their wealth remain in bitcoins	[18:43]
pgp	but people who use bitinstant are repeat users in/out... they'd go broke...	[18:43]
pgp	aren't, rather	[18:43]
MJR_	well...you set the fees where it makes sense	[18:43]
MJR_	at the end of the day...how do banks do it now	[18:44]
MJR_	its obviously possible to run an atm network	[18:44]
MJR_	its been done	[18:44]
MJR_	if bitcoin can't handle something that basic and mundane	[18:44]
pgp	they're asking to be regulated...	[18:44]
MJR_	the thing i'm talking about is the most basic of banking needs	[18:44]
MJR_	deposit withdrawal	[18:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.35579999 BTC [+]	[18:45]
MJR_	in fact...you could even set it up as an ewallet service if you would rather go that way	[18:45]
MJR_	and have accounts with fiat and btc etc	[18:45]
MJR_	but you can accept cash with no friction besides being close to an atm	[18:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.356 = 1.424 BTC [+]	[18:46]
pgp	most people have brokerage accounts - why can't you access those directly through an ATM?	[18:46]
pgp	no demand	[18:46]
MJR_	THAT is the point	[18:46]
MJR_	as long as bitcoin is a speculative asset	[18:46]
MJR_	it won't win	[18:46]
MJR_	when it becomes a currency, it wins easiliy	[18:46]
pgp	etrade tried it - no demand	[18:46]
MJR_	most people don't want to trade	[18:46]
MJR_	they just want honest money, available when they want	[18:46]
MJR_	if it holds its value and they can have it on demand, they are happy	[18:47]
pgp	people are used to managed the fiat equivalent of cold and hot wallets	[18:47]
troc	In effect the ATMs are just there to beat the x*10 min confirmations no ? is there no better way of doing that ?	[18:47]
MJR_	that is the point, you don't need to see btc as an INVESTMENT	[18:47]
pgp	if the need cash, they keep money in there checking account linked to a card..	[18:47]
MJR_	most people who spend money don't think of it as a forex transaction	[18:47]
pgp	otherwise they keep it elsewhere	[18:47]
MJR_	yes, but what about people who don't want to keep their money in USD	[18:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.35799996 BTC [+]	[18:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.35799996 = 0.716 BTC [+]	[18:48]
MJR_	you unlock gresham's law through this method	[18:48]
topace_	no sdice dividend announcement yet ?	[18:48]
MJR_	i only have to spend the "bad" currency when i really need to	[18:48]
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MJR_	otherwise i have only "good" currency	[18:48]
MJR_	the point is that as long as btc is only good for finance people, you won't get mainstream adoption	[18:48]
pgp	look - I'm not saying that that sort of convenience is bad...	[18:49]
pgp	I just question the timing and business model	[18:49]
MJR_	i never gave a time frame...	[18:49]
MJR_	i just said that giving people easy access to their cash is necessary	[18:49]
MJR_	what is the problem with gox?	[18:49]
MJR_	lag on setting up account	[18:49]
MJR_	lag on withdrawing money	[18:49]
MJR_	lag on executing trades	[18:49]
MJR_	or in other words	[18:49]
MJR_	inconvenience	[18:49]
pgp	in the future, there will be no cash	[18:49]
MJR_	if you are curious about the market...check out localbitcoins	[18:50]
troc	surely a better way to access a local currency would be something like mpesa no ?	[18:50]
MJR_	see what they go for in a more convenient environment	[18:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.4449 BTC [+]	[18:51]
MJR_	anywhere from $145-191	[18:51]
MJR_	thats why bitfloor has higher prices	[18:51]
MJR_	etc etc etc	[18:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.445 BTC [+]	[18:52]
pgp	I just don't see it being a profitable venture for these guys - that's all...	[18:52]
MJR_	i suppose	[18:52]
MJR_	i don't see how they can lose money	[18:52]
MJR_	besides being idiots	[18:52]
MJR_	barring theft, they cannot lose money	[18:52]
pgp	massive up front costs	[18:52]
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MJR_	you are charging more to buy and giving less out to sell...it is automatically buy low sell high	[18:52]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.445 BTC [+]	[18:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 50 @ 0.445 = 22.25 BTC [+]	[18:53]
MJR_	yeah	[18:53]
MJR_	true	[18:53]
MJR_	but bitcoin millionaires don't mind	[18:53]
MJR_	they way it SHOULD progress is like this...you convince a local shop to accept bitcoins and put your atm inside their shop	[18:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BITVPS] 15 @ 0.0028 = 0.042 BTC [-]	[18:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.449 = 1.347 BTC [+]	[18:54]
MJR_	that is your omaha beach	[18:54]
MJR_	for the city in question	[18:54]
MJR_	you try to draw all enthusiasts to this shop and try to get other local businesses in this neighborhood to accept it	[18:54]
MJR_	i'm looking at williamsburg	[18:54]
MJR_	you create enough local economy to create critical mass	[18:54]
MJR_	eventually maybe a few landlords accept rent in btc	[18:54]
MJR_	a grocery store	[18:55]
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MJR_	and you form an "ethnic" enclave	[18:55]
MJR_	like chinatown or koreatown or little italy etc	[18:55]
MJR_	'cept its a "economic" enclave	[18:55]
MJR_	this is how immigrants do it, and have done it for hundreds of years, and its how they survive and make it in a foreign land	[18:56]
MJR_	stick together	[18:56]
MJR_	common culture, and community trust	[18:56]
pgp	obviously, I believe in bitcoin... I just don't see that happening anytime soon... in 10 years...	[18:57]
MJR_	maybe...you'd be surprised how quickly hipsters can adopt new things	[18:57]
MJR_	you wanna go to lunch by the way?	[18:57]
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pgp	bitcoin's principal utility is in the NON-local transfer of money	[18:57]
MJR_	hmmm...strong point	[18:57]
pgp	wish i could	[18:57]
MJR_	but i think it's in its store of value	[18:57]
MJR_	BoJ just decided to double its bond buyback rate...	[18:58]
MJR_	and the genesis block did not contain a message saying "money hard to move to other countries"	[18:58]
pgp	fine... store of value... there is no demand for ATM access to your investments...	[18:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13770 @ 0.00071031 = 9.781 BTC [+]	[18:59]
MJR_	but if i could have all my wealth in my "investments"...and only liquidate when i had to	[18:59]
MJR_	literally at the point of sale	[18:59]
MJR_	it is preferable	[18:59]
pgp	if people wanted that, we would have that already	[18:59]
MJR_	if people wanted bitcoin we would have had it already...glad satoshi didn't think that	[18:59]
MJR_	there will be surprises and there will be many things that change	[19:00]
MJR_	ipad is anohter good example, et al	[19:00]
MJR_	i'm just saying...access to your money is important	[19:00]
pgp	not every problem has a bitcoin solution	[19:01]
MJR_	i totally agree	[19:01]
MJR_	which is why i need a way to move my wealth from bitcoin to cash immediately and at will	[19:01]
MJR_	and then move it back again	[19:01]
MJR_	this volatility won't be foreveer	[19:01]
MJR_	you say ten years...i say 3	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	topace not that i've seen.	[19:02]
MJR_	just a difference in pace at the end of the day	[19:02]
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MJR_	mircea_popescu: how do these atm's relate to your "magic money machines"?	[19:02]
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mircea_popescu	i think i was saying they're basically the reverse	[19:03]
bgupta	Business as usual and the world moves on http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2013/04/04/bitcoin-exchange-bombarded-by-another-massive-cyber-attack/	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	not quite sure why people would do it backwards	[19:03]
MJR_	explain?	[19:03]
MJR_	since the transactions are both ways how is it the reverse?	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	well, they want to make bitcoin vending machines ?	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	or i confuse two projects ?	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	a ?	[19:03]
MJR_	no...they can dispense cash OR bitcoins	[19:04]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.445 BTC [-]	[19:04]
MJR_	and accept cash or bitcoins	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	well then... exactly it :D	[19:04]
MJR_	thanks :)	[19:04]
MJR_	if they execute (a HUGE if) it would be great	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	indeed.	[19:04]
MJR_	and pgp is right	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	i doubt they will really execute it,	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	as running the cash ops is the most expensive part of retail banking	[19:04]
MJR_	in the fact that again, the real world has a way of messing software guys plans up	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	and they absolutely can't afford the human resources let alone the capital goods	[19:05]
MJR_	yes...	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	but hey...	[19:05]
pgp	yes!	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	kids wanna try the impossible, let them.	[19:05]
MJR_	hahaha	[19:05]
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MJR_	you start small	[19:05]
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mircea_popescu	no, you don't.	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	if you want to get laid you don't start with a shrimp	[19:05]
MJR_	and i think the scarcity of bitoin right now means you will get more cash put in than taken out	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	it's a problem either way	[19:05]
MJR_	i mean PoC one atm somewhere by your own house	[19:05]
mircea_popescu	and an armored truck costs as much as an oil tanker, 20k a day	[19:06]
MJR_	they don't send armored trucks for all of them...i mean the small atms...the kind you find in a deli not affiliated with a bank	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	are they really executing or sorta executing ?	[19:06]
pgp	idea is TOO EARLY...	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	send a little armored roboaspirator guy	[19:07]
pgp	but we'll be able to learn from their mistakes...	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	start small.	[19:07]
MJR_	http://www.atmnetwork.net/store/#ecwid:category=1438203&mode=product&product=21968297	[19:07]
MJR_	like that	[19:07]
MJR_	they don't have armored trucks coming for that...and of course i'd limit it to $20 bills only...in and out	[19:07]
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*	deadweasely had sex with large gulf shrimp before a woman	[19:08]
MJR_	not that it counts a lot...but they were interviewed on cnbc, they have preorders in 30 countries already	[19:08]
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MJR_	and have the prototype	[19:08]
MJR_	so whether THEY succeed or fail does not speak to whether the idea succeeds or fails IMO	[19:08]
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MJR_	https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FJeff_Berwick&ei=36VdUaL4Cuuo0AHlxICIDA&usg=AFQjCNEW4ScEXrdgn7x9fyMdLbP3WQp5bg&sig2=9IihRHrzALlXc_8Y4Ukstw	[19:10]
pgp	if gox got a banking license, they could issue debit cards that could be used at every atm in the world - that you be a problem for bitcoin ATM	[19:11]
MJR_	https://bitcoinatm.com/	[19:11]
MJR_	there is his site if you want to look yourself	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	pgp it would have been the logical step for them.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu	it is beyond the pale that they did not do so.	[19:11]
pgp	i believe there is already a bank in france that lets people maintain BTC balances... yes?	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	i had originally thought there's under the table conventions preventing such a thing, even if not visible above board	[19:12]
MJR_	if they can manage to stem the flow of p0eople sick of doing business there...build a decent matching engine...then they can hope to develop atm technology lol	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	but once the frenchies did get it... it's clearly just op incompetence.	[19:12]
MJR_	yah, i think he is trying to set up the first two atm's within the next two weeks..so we'll see	[19:13]
MJR_	at the end of the day, if you can't even handle data...please for the love of god don't try and tackle hardware or supply chain management (looking at you BFL)	[19:14]
deadweasely	do the atms go both ways? cash for btc and btc for cash?	[19:15]
MJR_	yes	[19:15]
MJR_	they do	[19:15]
pgp	if your a bank, you don't need to develop ATM technology	[19:15]
MJR_	i'm going to lunch with darren pgp	[19:15]
pgp	you use the existing network	[19:15]
MJR_	also...last point, if it existed i would be using it today	[19:15]
MJR_	so they'd have one customer	[19:15]
pgp	mjr - wish I could join - have work to do :-(	[19:15]
mircea_popescu	i think there's a bitbet on it anyway	[19:17]
asciilifeform	consider a hardware widget that receives a single-use CC number (for $X) from a hypothetical BTC-enabled bank and writes it to a blank physical ATM card, when you send the bank $X equiv. of BTC.	[19:17]
asciilifeform	then you can withdraw cash from normal ATMs.	[19:18]
asciilifeform	let some other loser handle the ATMs, drive the armored trucks, etc.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform this will never fly.	[19:18]
asciilifeform	not in the USSA certainly. but maybe in France...	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	not even	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	you'll get shot down, specifically for the "other loser" reason	[19:19]
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asciilifeform	what does it take to get valid single-use CC #s, though? Can you do it from the Seychelles or the like?	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	not even in russia will you be able to suck the value out of their infrastructure quite so brazenly	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	you can do it until they figure out what you're doing it for.	[19:20]
asciilifeform	but I agree, anyone who tries will "have problems" rather quickly.	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	btw, thanks for your microscope.	[19:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: thank Alex Tolstoy, not me.	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	what do i care where you stole it from	[19:21]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what made you remember it now?	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	i stole it from you	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/people-bitcoin-is-not-worth-100-dollars-per-stop-buying/	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	bah wrong link. i meant http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/its-been-an-epic-few-days-what-happened/	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	you're in there.	[19:22]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ok I see	[19:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.4492 = 0.8984 BTC [+]	[19:24]
bitesak	;;ticker	[19:24]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 133.40000, Best ask: 133.86743, Bid-ask spread: 0.46743, Last trade: 133.86744, 24 hour volume: 124844.76506536, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.81081	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	"can we use the coffee fund to buy other stuff ?" "like what" "ummm like say beer" "no. coffee fund is for coffe funding.". net result ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=166794.msg1740750#msg1740750	[19:25]
asciilifeform	another variation on the CC idea: use #s lifted from perfectly genuine "cash cards," of the kind sold in virtually every country.	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	are you trying to cause a bitcoin-related successful prosecution ?	[19:26]
asciilifeform	the BTC prosecutions (and firing squads, eventually) will come whether we like it or not.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	no they won't, get out.	[19:28]
asciilifeform	IANAL, but I'm not even sure this would be illegal under (current) American law.	[19:28]
asciilifeform	although the U.S. authorities are in the process of decreeing that cash card balances must be declared at customs checkpoints.	[19:29]
mircea_popescu	listen, keeping piss in milk containers in your fridge may not be specifically against the rules of your lease	[19:29]
mircea_popescu	but after a few neighbougrs accidentally drink some you will get evicted.	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	just shitty non-scalable sorts of things to do.	[19:30]
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[\]	that's why you label the milk containers piss	[19:31]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: fair enough. If you screw with the "cattle infrastructure" you will Have Problems, whether it breaks any formal law or not.	[19:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7699 BTC [+]	[19:31]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: I was arguing from the "may as well hang for a sheep as a lamb" angle.	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	ya but it's not what's going on here.	[19:31]
mircea_popescu	nobody's hanging you.	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	so far the govt is a coughar in your little corner bar drooling all over you.	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	she ain't strangling anything.	[19:32]
mircea_popescu	much.	[19:32]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.4492 = 1.7968 BTC [+]	[19:35]
asciilifeform	I know this is a hard sell, but it seems to me that things like Silk Road are steps in the right direction. Right now, most BTC users are law-abiding wimps who will give up if their gov. so much as sneezes at them. But if you can get organized crime to actually rely on BTC in a serious way, it will be invincible.	[19:35]
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mircea_popescu	what the hell. law abiding isn't being a whimp, in the vast, overwhelmingly majority of cases.	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	what, drive on the other side of the road just to be different ?	[19:36]
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asciilifeform	ok, strike that. "decree-abiding"	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	but see, the way to efficiently fight absurd regulation is by keeping the obnoxious shit to a minimum.	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	if you're not the weird guy with piss in your fridge you have a much better shot at getting gays accepted in the condo.	[19:37]
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asciilifeform	right now, if the legit commerce in BTC gets decreed out of existence, the currency will be on very shaky legs indeed	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	yeah, right, becauyse a whole 50 dollars in reddit tips and another 100 bux in coffe is going away.	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	derp.	[19:37]
asciilifeform	forget about reddit coffee, what about mtgox? what would a sudden desaparecido of gox be like?	[19:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00333 = 3.33 BTC [+]	[19:38]
mircea_popescu	what'd happen if california fell into the ocean ?	[19:38]
mircea_popescu	the us minus a buncha freaks would still be fighting in afghanistan right ?	[19:38]
asciilifeform	correct me if I'm wrong, but most people who pump fiat into BTC are hoping to use gox in particular at some point to pump it back out	[19:39]
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mircea_popescu	btc is people moving 10k btc over a nod and a handshake, not 10k noobs putting in 50 bux they "earned online" to "get in on the ground floor" on this "new thing"	[19:40]
KRS-1	or currency imo because i dont think the design can handle transactions required of a common currency	[19:41]
asciilifeform	my impression is that the idiot noobs are playing the role of the "stupid money" at online poker tables - keeping the system adequately "pressurized" for real commerce	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	i doubt this is the case. the uberpressure comes from store of value applications.	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	but incidentally, you probably should package and publish this convo, it's too good to go to ircwaste.	[19:42]
asciilifeform	and virtually nobody appears to be the least bit interested in my (or anyone else's) ideas for cutting the fiat world out of the loop (I suggested product delivery via dead drops, flying machines, other crackpot nuttery)	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	cause you're even too soon-er than the atm stuff.	[19:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you can repackage and post this if you like, the readers of my little computer architecture blog are probably tired of the BTC ramblings...	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	so start a btc blog, you're clearly more interested in this than that.	[19:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: I'm more of an amateur mathematics crackpot than a serious BTC enthusiast. I have ~3 BTC...	[19:45]
benkay	asciilifeform where do you blog?	[19:45]
asciilifeform	benkay: http://www.loper-os.org/	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	you know that's entirely besides the point	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	and when did content creators start caring about readers, what the fuck is this, soviet russia ?	[19:45]
deadweasely	is it possible or advisable to run a node on ec2?	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	deadweasel certainly possible.	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	bw isn't huge either.	[19:46]
asciilifeform	deadweasely: just don't try to mine there	[19:46]
deadweasely	no, i won't	[19:46]
asciilifeform	deadweasely: although if the price does up 100 fold (but the difficulty somehow remains similar to today's) it will be cash-positive.	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	ahahaa wait. how much of that ~3 you made on mpex ?	[19:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you gave me 1.0, which turned into 1.4. As described in my review of the service.	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	this kicks ass.	[19:47]
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bitesak	i would like to do something like that and have my node online. that wouldn't even cost much at all right?	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	bitesak nothing huge no.	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	a beer sorta thing	[19:48]
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asciilifeform	bitesak: ec2 has an ebay-like bid system where, if used, your instance only runs when CPU time is available at or below your max bid.	[19:48]
deadweasely	and it's lame as hell, don't use it	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	prolly not so grand for nodes tho	[19:49]
deadweasely	you'll pay more	[19:49]
Rick___	Mircea_popescu is here?	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	ya ebay system exists to get more bux	[19:49]
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mircea_popescu	hi Rick___	[19:49]
Rick___	Hi	[19:49]
Rick___	need help	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[19:49]
deadweasely	i started an instance, never even logged in and they stuck me with $15.01 bill this mo.	[19:49]
Rick___	on of my client	[19:49]
bitesak	would it be better/easier to run a node on a Raspberry Pi?	[19:49]
mircea_popescu	bitesak i don't think pi can cope	[19:49]
Rick___	one of my client just send you guys his key	[19:49]
deadweasely	bitesak: i'd love to, no time, rather use ec2 free instances.	[19:50]
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deadweasely	run .71 .81	[19:50]
thestrin1puller	mircea_popescu: you always seem to cheer me up	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	hallo.	[19:53]
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bitesak	asciilifeform, can you post link for the 'review of service'?	[19:54]
asciilifeform	bitesak: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108 ("A Review of MPEx, the Bitcoin Stock Exchange.")	[19:55]
jcpham	new idea: double the price	[19:55]
jcpham	cut the hashrate by %60 because	[19:56]
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jcpham	nice	[19:59]
jcpham	mpex review	[19:59]
Bugpowder	i remember that review	[19:59]
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mircea_popescu	anyone here uses a mac to talk to mpex ?	[19:59]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: I did (along with a linux box.) GPG works equally well on any reasonable *nix machine.	[20:00]
jcpham	mircea_popescu did you tell this guy what to write	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform does this gpgtools thing work somehow ?	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	Rick___ has trouble with the syntax or something	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	jcpham i never tell people what to write	[20:01]
jcpham	are you suuuuuure he isn't reading from a script you manipulator, you	[20:01]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: yes, that plus https://github.com/Azelphur/pyMPEx (as linked from your manual, actually)	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	not more than you are.	[20:01]
jcpham	damn	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	it's funny tho, there you go asciilifeform, you're now empuppeted.	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	an entire life dedicated to hanging as a sheep pregnant with twin lambs	[20:02]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: considering what I concluded in that piece, this is hilariously funny	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	and all for naught.	[20:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00071356 = 10.418 BTC [+]	[20:02]
jcpham	oh man these new BFL prices are great	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	with fans or without fans ?	[20:04]
jcpham	"gee, you want 60GH/s, here have 25GH/s instead for more money"	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	avalon did it...	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	southpark did it too.	[20:04]
jcpham	minirigs are out of stock too	[20:04]
jcpham	in case you wanted one	[20:04]
jcpham	pham> are you suuuuuure he isn't reading from a script you manipulator, you	[20:04]
[\]	http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/	[20:04]
jcpham	wtf	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	far as i'm concerned the laugh of the year is that after demonstrating a box of fans at that convention, bfl "delivered" to their shill "cumstomer" a board which cools passively.	[20:04]
[\]	still lists october ship date	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	this is so far out there...	[20:04]
jcpham	did my paste just do	[20:05]
jcpham	I guess they cannot fix the power regulator thing	[20:06]
asciilifeform	why is nobody talking about how Avalon shipped HardCopy FPGAs instead of real ASICs?	[20:06]
deadweasely	???	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	is this the clock buffers jet injector ?	[20:07]
asciilifeform	deadweasely: it explains the power consumption	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform because lazy bums such as yourself haven't taken one apart to prove this.	[20:07]
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deadweasely	lol ^	[20:07]
deadweasely	nobody dare void their warranty	[20:07]
deadweasely	:)	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	except lmao	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	you troll you	[20:08]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: mail me one and I'll happily vivisect it and post the result	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	yes. except i only order shit i pay for after it's delivered.	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	from strippers to bagels.	[20:08]
asciilifeform	but the watt/hash/hr figure is a smoking gun by itself	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	depends how stupid they are.	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	i can make you an asic that uses up 500W per chip	[20:08]
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asciilifeform	well yes, and I can wire a resistor from my garbage can across the power terminals and use 500W	[20:09]
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mircea_popescu	exactly.	[20:09]
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asciilifeform	but the fact is, a real asic has a 7 figure (USD) tooling cost and hardcopy FPGAs have 4 figure tooling cost.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	you obviously don't own enough bitcoins.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	your thought process is suspiciously normal.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	looking to get banned or something ?	[20:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: I tend to think in the currency I buy food with. Is this really so odd?	[20:10]
gwillen	I don't think anybody is shocked if Avalon is a HardCopy	[20:11]
gwillen	HardCopy is still an ASIC	[20:11]
gwillen	it's just a shitty ASIC	[20:11]
gwillen	which is why they got to market before BFL did :-P	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform anyway, there was a huge-ish bet on avalon delivering.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	someone could have bet no, taken one apart, proven it and maybe won ~200 btc	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	nobody did so it doesn't really matter imo.	[20:11]
deadweasely	ii wondered that when they offered buybacks...	[20:12]
asciilifeform	gwillen: it is an ASIC only in the sense that it isn't field-programmable. But most of the actual circuitry is identical to that of an FPGA	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well... most bitcoiners buy food in stamps.	[20:12]
gwillen	asciilifeform: yes, it's called "structured ASIC"	[20:12]
gwillen	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_ASIC_platform	[20:12]
gwillen	it's higher performance and cheaper than FPGA	[20:12]
asciilifeform	gwillen: the marketdroids can call a turd a sausage and eat with relish. but we don't have to	[20:12]
gwillen	but lower performance than full ASIC	[20:12]
*	gwillen shrug	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	anyway. some chick that's banging jeff bezos must get him to make a proper asic run.	[20:13]
deadweasely	send him female gift!	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	amazon comes out with elastic mining instances.	[20:13]
deadweasely	from her womb explodes an asic!	[20:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.37 = 0.74 BTC [+]	[20:14]
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mircea_popescu	i got nobody in washington	[20:14]
deadweasely	dang	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	fucking dead end, nothing but geeks, no girls want to be there.	[20:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.36 BTC [-]	[20:15]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: washington dc? why?	[20:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10950 @ 0.00071031 = 7.7779 BTC [-]	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	washington state.	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	o fuck me ? has it occured ?	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[20:16]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 131.10001, Best ask: 132.99693, Bid-ask spread: 1.89692, Last trade: 131.10001, 24 hour volume: 125348.75480664, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.72686	[20:16]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7699 BTC [+]	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 710310 * 131.10001	[20:16]
gribble	93121648.1031	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	gah	[20:16]
thestrin1puller	!ticker h havelock	[20:17]
assbot	You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.	[20:17]
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thestrin1puller	!ticker h him	[20:17]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.96201695 / 2.08000000 (118 shares, 231.51799996 BTC), 30D: 1.41000000 / 1.81224245 / 2.08000000 (716 shares, 1297.56559240 BTC)	[20:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00333 = 3.33 BTC [+]	[20:17]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25522 @ 0.00071031 = 18.1285 BTC [-]	[20:22]
deadweasely	mircea_popescu: total armchair criticism here.... does bitbet have too many bets and not enough advertising (not paid necessarily, but maybe new bets are posted in bitcointalk bitbet thread? just talking out my ass here. i like bitbet, big potential there.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	well i dunno.	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	the good thing is that people can advertise it to their benefit	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	feb saw like 3 bux worth of ref fees paid	[20:23]
deadweasely	you know i do.	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	march was 100	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	i imagine it will explode once more people figure it out	[20:23]
mircea_popescu	i know you do what ?	[20:24]
deadweasely	should you have bitbet thread posting the new bets so people see them on recent posts on the forum?	[20:24]
deadweasely	i use the ref link in my sig....	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	a ok.	[20:24]
deadweasely	you paid me $30 in refs already this mo.	[20:24]
deadweasely	:)	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	i don't read the forum.	[20:24]
deadweasely	thx	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	yw but i had no ideal ol	[20:24]
deadweasely	i try not to, but i want to spam my ref links now, so i reply to newbs and help them out.	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	prolly will end up having to hiore some ex pron aff manager	[20:25]
deadweasely	and they see my sig	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	pretty cool.	[20:26]
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deadweasely	well, i'm down to whoring for btc since i can't actually buy in anymore on the borked exchanges	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[20:27]
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mircea_popescu	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bQh-erEeI0	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	pretty funny	[20:28]
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jborkl	mmircea-popescu - you waiting for it to go over $100 million?	[20:29]
jborkl	micrea-popescu	[20:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-TRADING-PT] 2 @ 0.1722 = 0.3444 BTC [-]	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	jborkl i already claimed 1st to 50mn, angling for 100 now	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	next stop, half bn	[20:30]
jborkl	yeah, it did not take long for it to go up 50 million	[20:30]
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jborkl	good deal, congrats	[20:31]
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mircea_popescu	it's like pushing nipples down.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	impossible but lots of fun	[20:34]
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mod6	:]	[20:35]
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ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[20:46]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 129.00999, Best ask: 129.25000, Bid-ask spread: 0.24001, Last trade: 129.00100, 24 hour volume: 126044.17368292, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.57859	[20:46]
Uglux	http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-04/visualizing-bitcoin-encryption-standard	[20:47]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2553 @ 0.00071356 = 1.8217 BTC [+]	[20:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 497 @ 0.00071367 = 0.3547 BTC [+]	[20:49]
kakobrekla	;;seen mircea_popescu	[20:49]
gribble	mircea_popescu was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 15 minutes and 14 seconds ago: impossible but lots of fun	[20:49]
kakobrekla	did he go to sleep?	[20:50]
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deadweasely	according to his webcam i hacked, he's fapping. ;D	[20:52]
thestrin1puller	mpoe bounced back	[20:56]
thestrin1puller	!ticker h him	[20:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 1.80000000 / 1.96201695 / 2.08000000 (118 shares, 231.51799996 BTC), 30D: 1.41000000 / 1.81224245 / 2.08000000 (716 shares, 1297.56559240 BTC)	[20:56]
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mircea_popescu	deadweasely yea, on yourmom.	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	sup kakobrekla	[21:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 803 @ 0.00071367 = 0.5731 BTC [+]	[21:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7510 @ 0.00071368 = 5.3597 BTC [+]	[21:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13824 @ 0.00071453 = 9.8777 BTC [+]	[21:04]
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mod6	getting closer	[21:05]
mircea_popescu	ok, this guy might have just won the troll competition.	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	so his new gf is a ballerina. she also happens to be polish.	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	he takes her to meet his family (mom, dad, sisters, grama)	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	and he tells them that the girl is	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	a	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	pole	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	dancer	[21:06]
mod6	HA	[21:06]
MJR_	LOL	[21:07]
MJR_	how many pole dancers does it take to...i give up	[21:07]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:07]
MJR_	i thought i had something for this	[21:07]
mircea_popescu	to screw in a light bulb ?	[21:07]
MJR_	there we go!	[21:07]
iz	none, pole dancers screw in a puddle of beer?	[21:07]
MJR_	hahaha	[21:08]
MJR_	in the coatcheck room	[21:08]
iz	haha, yes, that's more classy	[21:08]
MJR_	i do drink with my pinky out	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	there's a reason wardrobe has a little bar	[21:08]
MJR_	how are the bars in timisoara (sorry if misspelled)	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	mostly square	[21:09]
MJR_	strip clubs?	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	just like strip clubs	[21:09]
MJR_	little desperation mixed with single mothers?	[21:09]
*	orkaa (~nace@BSN-61-36-145.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	not rly. mostly college students.	[21:10]
MJR_	oh, NICE	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	this is yurp remember ?	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	we're not nutty about fucking here.	[21:10]
MJR_	ah yes, not quite as puritanical	[21:10]
MJR_	cheap perfume?	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	that's universal.	[21:10]
MJR_	and glitter that can't be gotten rid of? lol	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	you get cheap perfume in vegas.	[21:10]
MJR_	or nyc	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	well nyc. i meant places where people have money.	[21:11]
bitesak	http://www.icij.org/offshore	[21:11]
MJR_	hahaha, what do they smell like in other places?	[21:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.4492 = 0.8984 BTC [+]	[21:12]
bitesak	there have been leaks on the offshore world with millions of records, pics and more	[21:12]
MJR_	i'm just not a huge fan of strip clubs...	[21:12]
bitesak	"A cache of 2.5 million files has cracked open the secrets of more than 120,000 offshore companies and trusts"	[21:12]
MJR_	bitesak: very interesting	[21:13]
MJR_	do you think they will eventually try and tie wealthy people to bitcoin addresses?	[21:13]
bitesak	just saw it on the swiss news tonight, french treasurer of current president exposed as having 2 cayman islands outfits..	[21:14]
MJR_	by the way...i really liked that "ussa"	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	ok so i've got news from erik,	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	he's moved to an undisclosed offshore location, getting reorganised,	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	s.dice report and divs asap.	[21:16]
[\]	anyone use vircurex?	[21:17]
[\]	am I risking my life using it?	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	i never used it. is this kumala's thing ?	[21:17]
[\]	dunno who actually runs it	[21:17]
[\]	but its been around for a while	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	what are you, an idiot ?	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	don't use services you don't know the owner of.	[21:18]
[\]	I'm talking to you	[21:18]
[\]	so clearly I must be	[21:18]
[\]	:-)	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	no but seriously.	[21:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.38199999 BTC [+]	[21:19]
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[\]	no but seriously	[21:20]
[\]	so even if I knew some guys screen name	[21:20]
[\]	that doesn't do anything for me	[21:20]
[\]	I know mtux runs gox, that doesn't mean anything	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	but you kinda know who he is neh ?	[21:20]
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MJR_	did erik say dividends?	[21:21]
MJR_	didn't think there would be any this month	[21:21]
mircea_popescu	well, in the sense of saying what they are. 0 is still a number.	[21:22]
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[\]	whats going on iwth erik?	[21:23]
cryptrader	Anyone here?	[21:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7699 BTC [+]	[21:23]
MJR_	lol	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	yes lol, someone's here.	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	[\] he finally did the smart thing and quit the us.	[21:24]
cryptrader	Where's a good place to discuss ltc/nmc/ppc etc?	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	probably not here.	[21:24]
*	ivan``` (~ivan@node1.sunrise.org.uk) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	this is mostly porn and weird artsy shit.	[21:24]
[\]	mircea_popescu, so he got out of the us? was he being harassed?	[21:25]
cryptrader	Any better general crypto currency chat rooms?	[21:25]
cryptrader	I'm tired of the spam on btc-e	[21:25]
pgp	pib1943 pigeons pizzaman1337 Populus PsychoticBoy Pucilowski	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	[\] nah	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	cryptrader tell you honeslty i don't know. i've never been into the alt chains.	[21:25]
MJR_	i thought that spam was what they traded on btc-e	[21:26]
MJR_	and trolling	[21:26]
MJR_	whats ltc at?	[21:26]
cryptrader	Floating above $4usd	[21:27]
mircea_popescu	insanity.	[21:27]
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MJR_	yeah	[21:27]
cryptrader	It was at 6 yesterday	[21:27]
MJR_	really?	[21:27]
cryptrader	Yep made some $ off that	[21:27]
cryptrader	Just trading with 2btc tho lol	[21:28]
cryptrader	Now ppc is doubling	[21:28]
jcpham	i guess noobs are figuring out all it takes is poeople for an alt-coin to become profitable	[21:29]
unbalanced	mircea_popescu: serious about Erik?	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	that he finally packed up and moved ? yes.	[21:29]
unbalanced	Where was he from before US?	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	what do you mean before ys	[21:30]
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cryptrader	Yeah I'm just realizing it myself btc isn't the only and diversifying only makes sense	[21:30]
cryptrader	But with most of them all you can do is buy/sell btc but it sure is fun	[21:31]
cryptrader	Erik is satoshidice owner right?	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	yes	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	cryptrader sounds like ponzifun to me, but anyway.	[21:32]
jcpham	information costs money	[21:32]
cryptrader	Wonder how rich he is...	[21:32]
jcpham	mircea_popescu gives it out for free	[21:32]
unbalanced	I thought from his last name he was Dutch or something.	[21:32]
unbalanced	(at first)	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	unbalanced ya cause that works in the us.	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	all the cohen people are from like lebanon.	[21:32]
unbalanced	I know, I walked into that one.	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	:D	[21:33]
unbalanced	I blame Austin Powers... can't trust the Dutch.	[21:33]
unbalanced	(I could also claim points for not assuming everyone was American)	[21:35]
jurov	[\] im using vircurex, didn't eat me so far	[21:35]
jurov	nor did it eat some ltcs i bought year ago	[21:35]
unbalanced	hey jurov, while I'm on a roll with my ignorance, what does the "br" in coinbr mean or stand for?	[21:36]
jurov	deadweasely whore, you around?	[21:36]
jurov	was meant to stand for broker	[21:36]
unbalanced	ah thx	[21:36]
jurov	but feel free to invent sth	[21:36]
jurov	all btc services have sexually colored malapropism	[21:37]
jurov	thus i feel excluded with coinbr	[21:37]
MJR_	so...pay rent in bitcoin directly to property management company...	[21:37]
[\]	thanks jurov	[21:37]
[\]	MJR_: another bitpay vendor.. big deal.	[21:38]
MJR_	https://www.aepropertymanage.com/index.html#news	[21:38]
MJR_	nope	[21:38]
MJR_	the owner of the company invested in bitcoins	[21:38]
[\]	Let's see someone accept actual coins and use them to pay for their employes	[21:38]
[\]	those palces are special	[21:38]
MJR_	when asked about volatility he said "bitcoin is more valuable than dollars, i don't care about volatility"	[21:38]
MJR_	https://www.aepropertymanage.com/rental-properties-rental-homes-memphis-tn.php	[21:39]
MJR_	not bitpay	[21:39]
MJR_	i hope they don't get hacked...	[21:39]
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MJR_	that is a positive sign, that he is willing to provide rent in bitcoin...the next step is a large employer to offer to pay in bitcoin	[21:40]
[\]	they're using coinbase	[21:40]
[\]	you realise thats just like bitpay?	[21:40]
MJR_	are you sure?	[21:40]
[\]	yes	[21:40]
[\]	when you check out, it pops up	[21:40]
[\]	fill in a fake amount and address, then click bitcoin	[21:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.39 = 1.17 BTC [+]	[21:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 2253 @ 0.00333 = 7.5025 BTC [+]	[21:41]
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MJR_	wrong	[21:42]
*	fishfish (~fishfish2@cpc10-mort5-2-0-cust225.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:42]
MJR_	can't you pay with a regular bitcoin addresss	[21:42]
*	jborkl (~jborkl@unaffiliated/jborkl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:42]
MJR_	or a coinbase account	[21:42]
MJR_	even if they manage the web interface the owner said he owns and wants bitcoins	[21:42]
MJR_	so it is not simply a cash to btc translator but rather a merchant looking to actively acquire bitcoin in exchange for services	[21:43]
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mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[21:46]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 132.00000, Best ask: 132.67999, Bid-ask spread: 0.67999, Last trade: 132.00000, 24 hour volume: 124042.97259498, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.34869	[21:46]
*	orkaa (~nace@BSN-61-36-145.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:47]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.39 = 0.78 BTC [+]	[21:48]
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MJR_	aha...i just found the best article talking about why bitcoin will not be negatively affected by deflation	[21:48]
MJR_	http://www.nasdaq.com/article/the-lines-in-the-bitcoin-bubble-battle-are-drawn-what-side-are-you-on-cm233350	[21:49]
grubles	[\], ive used vircurex for about a month or so	[21:49]
grubles	everythings been smooth as warm butter	[21:50]
[\]	they're struggling today	[21:50]
kakobrekla	its finally getting some traction among big bwanas now thats above 100	[21:50]
[\]	bad gateway messages	[21:50]
grubles	hm	[21:50]
grubles	not for me	[21:50]
[\]	you know that thing we talked about yesterday?	[21:50]
[\]	4x	[21:50]
[\]	made my day	[21:50]
MJR_	since bitcoin is rarely used as a unit of account, people don't pay rent denominated in bitcoin, or have salaries denominated in bitcoin	[21:50]
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MJR_	it can float against the dollar but will probably be able to buy more in dollars in the future	[21:51]
grubles	[\], what thing?	[21:51]
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grubles	oh yeah yeah	[21:51]
grubles	:)	[21:51]
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deadweasely	;;ticker	[21:52]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 132.39801, Best ask: 132.48016, Bid-ask spread: 0.08215, Last trade: 132.39800, 24 hour volume: 122979.85614229, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.31262	[21:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4976 @ 0.00071453 = 3.5555 BTC [+]	[22:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.0007146 = 9.0754 BTC [+]	[22:00]
mircea_popescu	there's a bitcoin bubble battle ?	[22:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2405 @ 0.00071514 = 1.7199 BTC [+]	[22:00]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.435 BTC [-]	[22:03]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.435 BTC [-]	[22:05]
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mircea_popescu	http://bitbet.us/bet/330/mtgox-bitcoin-u/	[22:08]
mircea_popescu	look at that thing	[22:08]
TomServo	ridiculous.	[22:10]
mircea_popescu	for srs.	[22:11]
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deadweasely	y'all on yes or no?	[22:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 98 @ 0.00333333 = 0.3267 BTC [+]	[22:18]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7699 BTC [+]	[22:18]
*	blu3gr1ffon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	nope	[22:20]
jborkl	gox is starting to lag again	[22:20]
*	Ixitachil (~gandalf@95.61.172.46) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:21]
*	[\] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[22:22]
*	arij_ (arij@pool-100-1-87-236.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:23]
*	[\] (~imsaguy@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:24]
*	arij has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[22:25]
deadweasely	mircea_popescu: nope on the $200 april bbet?	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	deadweasel yea	[22:34]
*	ivan``` has quit (Quit: bye)	[22:35]
deadweasely	i guess i can hedge my calls with a no bet	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	that;'s an idea	[22:38]
thestrin1puller	cash those calls	[22:39]
deadweasely	sell to bot?	[22:39]
*	Lyspooner (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/mpkomara) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	you could also put them on the market, undercut bot	[22:41]
thestrin1puller	buy low sell high	[22:41]
deadweasely	well, i bought c188Ts at .087.... so 205 to break even.	[22:43]
*	beetlebee has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[22:44]
deadweasely	my first options! aren't you all proud?!	[22:44]
deadweasely	probably not.	[22:44]
thestrin1puller	188 is too high	[22:44]
bitesak	iam proud!	[22:45]
deadweasely	i realize now... learning requires mistakes. so by the end of all this i'll be broke but rich in wisdom. it's a fair trade.	[22:46]
deadweasely	looks like i was about $100 of the strike i should have bought, but the others were so expensive already on coinbr...	[22:48]
deadweasely	of / off	[22:48]
mod6	who's to say that every stoner wont pile in on 4/20 and send the price over 205 though?	[22:48]
mod6	so who knows	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	back when btc was 5ish it was hella cheap way to learn finance	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	but even now is better than alternative	[22:49]
*	saulimus (~someone@37-136-63-242.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:49]
deadweasely	mod6, that's a great point, college stoners buying btc.	[22:49]
deadweasely	:)	[22:49]
mircea_popescu	mod6 205 really wouldn't be all that good for anyone.	[22:49]
mod6	i hear ya	[22:49]
*	ThickAsThieves (ThickAsThi@c-98-231-58-41.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:49]
jurov	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87358.msg1738363#msg1738363 <<< last glbse remnants salvaged?	[22:49]
thestrin1puller	deadweasely: sell back the calls and sell otm puts	[22:49]
mod6	im just sayin... its a speculative bet...	[22:49]
Lyspooner	what do you say about litecoin, friends?	[22:50]
mod6	(12:49) < mircea_popescu> back when btc was 5ish it was hella cheap way to learn finance << i certainly learned A LOT	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	http://pastebin.com/PthgrzDS here's a buncha dorks from a year ago.	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	Lyspooner you missed that bubble :D	[22:50]
deadweasely	i thought bitvps was a scam?	[22:50]
*	thestrin1puller is now known as thestringpuller	[22:51]
jurov	deadweasely, ask namworld about it	[22:51]
jurov	and see PM	[22:51]
*	thestringpuller is now known as Guest64700	[22:51]
*	Guest64700 is now known as thestringpuller	[22:52]
Lyspooner	mircea_popescu: i own zero LTC, but what is different about me saying "the people who say BTC is stupid are stupid" and someone calling me stupid for saying LTC is stupid	[22:52]
*	diana_coman has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	"I bet. I won but have undone me obviously missed. They were fools and ridiculous to me have closed. Fuck them and their site of betting."	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	this is pretty good.	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	Lyspooner bear with me i'm tired and that was too complex	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[22:53]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 132.00000, Best ask: 132.20000, Bid-ask spread: 0.20000, Last trade: 132.20000, 24 hour volume: 117001.33142800, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.72542	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 0.00757575*127.72542	[22:53]
gribble	0.967615850565	[22:53]
mod6	deadweasely: i guess too though, you have to figure in theta decay	[22:53]
mod6	since 4/20 is some days off yet	[22:53]
Lyspooner	if LTC pulls itself up by its bootstraps as BTC did, why dismiss it?	[22:54]
deadweasely	mod6 you lost me on theta decay, i'm looking it up now. ok, time premium stuff.	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	Lyspooner there's no prize for being 2nd.	[22:56]
*	Uglux has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	you don;'t know who the second guy to discover newton's law is.	[22:56]
Lyspooner	what if there was	[22:56]
mod6	yeah, you get time decay on options up until opex	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	all the tards who want to play bitcoin gem / bitcoin gold bar / ultimate satoshi / etc will have to go somewhere.	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	since btc isn't working all that well for them.	[22:57]
deadweasely	http://www.capturingtheta.com/ my reading material tonight	[22:58]
Lyspooner	the price of a bitcoin should equal the price of a litecoin when normalized for the size of the total money supply to exist	[22:58]
deadweasely	mod6 is this good source?	[22:58]
Lyspooner	with maybe some premium assigned to the security of the hashing algorithms	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	absolutely not at all.	[22:59]
mod6	well looks like they have something there... i acutally just read up on "the greeks" (options greeks) at like wikipedia (lol)	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	this is like saying that the per capita income of your random nigger should equal the per capita income of your random jew.	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	not in this world.	[22:59]
mod6	and I did watch a bunch of the video's on options trading at CBOE.com	[22:59]
mod6	(go figure, use wall-street to learn how to trade mpex.)	[22:59]
Lyspooner	that's like your third metaphor that i don't find sufficient	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	2nd class citizens man, there's no curing that.	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	what, is ltc going to do a million coin march on the internet ?	[23:00]
mod6	http://www.cboe.com/tradtool/webcast.aspx << bunch of educational vids on options here	[23:00]
Lyspooner	arguments against litecoin now remind me of arguments against bitcoin three years ago.... no one should use it because no one will use it	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	you're misrepresenting the argument.	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	cunnyshack opens. one girl in it.	[23:01]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: you should use nigga instead of nigger, more proper	[23:01]
deadweasely	thx mod6	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	old wives argument : nobody goes to the cunnyshack.	[23:01]
Lyspooner	propa	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	men do go fuck her silly.	[23:01]
mod6	deadweasely: np	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	2nd girl joins cunnyshack.	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	well... fuck. this was my worst metaphor to date.	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	anyway. ltc only exists to ponzi atm.	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	poor people like it because it feels closer to what they want in an asset.	[23:02]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: why do btc businesses fail so easily?	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	cause they're run by geeks.	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	just like restaurants run by cooks or sitcoms run by actors fail.	[23:03]
Lyspooner	"ltc is a ponzi scheme"	[23:03]
Lyspooner	where have i heard that before	[23:04]
mod6	deadweasely: here's one last link for ya http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_(finance)	[23:04]
bgupta	well like 90% of new businesses that have nothing to do with btc fail.. Just because it's btc related shouldn't make that change.	[23:04]
Lyspooner	BTC money supply is actually BTC + LTC money supply	[23:04]
mircea_popescu	Lyspooner no argument there, but you're framing the issue.	[23:04]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: but what busineses are succeeding? even bitinstant and blockchain.info are failures based on most standards	[23:04]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller how is blockchain.info a failure ?	[23:04]
TomServo	how is it a business?	[23:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.32000001 BTC [-]	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	it's serving its userbase remarkably well i thought	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	TomServo diff argument	[23:05]
deadweasely	i'll say	[23:05]
thestringpuller	okay, just Bitinstant then	[23:05]
thestringpuller	they were hacked	[23:06]
mod6	haha	[23:06]
thestringpuller	mtgox is a failure	[23:06]
thestringpuller	etc. etc.	[23:06]
thestringpuller	who is actually succeeding?	[23:06]
Lyspooner	mybitcoin succeeded	[23:06]
*	anarchyxx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:07]
*	deadweasely has quit (Quit: Page closed)	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller bitcoin-central.	[23:07]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu has spoken!!! move btc to bitcoin-central	[23:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 29 @ 0.32000001 = 9.28 BTC [-]	[23:09]
*	jborkl_ (~jborkl@unaffiliated/jborkl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:09]
TomServo	thestringpuller: how do you consider gox a failure?	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	made like a million dollah last month	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	clearly a failure neh ?	[23:09]
bgupta	asicminer argueably, same with avalon. but they'll both need to pivot to satay an ongonig concern. mpex seems to be doing well, mtgox despite issues, is here to stay. sdice, excluding it's potential as an investment is a survivor. some of these info sites seem to be fine.	[23:09]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: put the link to trilema on the screen	[23:09]
thestringpuller	about goxlag	[23:09]
thestringpuller	lol	[23:09]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 20 @ 0.33 = 6.6 BTC [+]	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	so they're a card tradind site.	[23:10]
mod6	magic the gathering online exchange ftw!	[23:10]
thestringpuller	man i cant believe the black locus card crashed the site	[23:11]
*	orkaa has quit (Quit: orkaa)	[23:11]
thestringpuller	4mn bidders	[23:11]
TomServo	heh, if not that - what then?!	[23:11]
iz	haha	[23:11]
bgupta	mircea_popescu: Just because they are totally broken, and constantly going down, you can not discount userbase enthusiasm, usage history, and first mover advantage.	[23:11]
thestringpuller	bgupta: you can only trip over yourself so long until yoi fall into an abyss	[23:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 60 @ 0.34000001 = 20.4 BTC [+]	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	bgupta why are you arguing to me ? thestringpuller was saying.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	but otherwise usage history is horrible.	[23:12]
jurov	i endorse b-c too. now only if they get it online :/	[23:12]
*	jborkl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[23:12]
TomServo	obviously gox is far from ideal - but if they're goal is to provide a BTC exchange platform, I'd say so far they've been successful in that.	[23:12]
Lyspooner	ok, mircea_popescu, this will be my parting thought on LTC. You might like it...	[23:13]
jurov	oh and what happened to usagi's mpex asset? can you now disclose for lulz?	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	what ?!	[23:13]
bgupta	Twitter is a prime example of a site that started completely brokensuffered massive growing pains (and outages), and then went on to mainstream success.	[23:13]
iz	did you actually play magic? remember the chaos orb?	[23:13]
Scrat	TomServo: that's like saying that I'm successful human being because I'm breathing	[23:13]
jurov	mircea_popescu: this http://bitbet.us/bet/1/usagi-ftw/	[23:13]
Lyspooner	The Bitcoin Foundation should use all its funds and destroy LTC the way people destroyed IOCoin and IXCoin	[23:13]
bgupta	They basically had to bring in a whole new tech team and throw out most of what they had.	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	bgupta twitter still is not a business/does not have a model.	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	Lyspooner that's nonsense.	[23:13]
Lyspooner	that's not nonsense, that's awesome and i'm awesome	[23:14]
Scrat	gox fails in every way possible, they had months to fix this shit, they didnt. EOD	[23:14]
jurov	mpex.co/?mpsic=S.NYAN	[23:14]
TomServo	Yet it's still possible to sell/buy BTC there so... I'm not sure I agree.	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	Scrat let me find this link for you	[23:14]
thestringpuller	jurov: LOLOLOL	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	jurov dafuck is that ?!	[23:14]
cryptrader	Lyspooner there is no 'bitcoin foundation' and how would that benefit anyone?	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	Scrat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpbYCfCfT1Y	[23:15]
Lyspooner	there is a bitcoin foundation and it doesn't benefit anyone	[23:15]
Lyspooner	well, it benefits the people that draw a salary from it	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	Lyspooner actually it's vessenes' little scam to try and float a little coin	[23:15]
*	deyyo (~sadfa@89.142.25.15) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	guy's the ceo treasurer and blabla of it,	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	got donations (from idiots), never published a report	[23:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [VTX] 43 @ 0.435 = 18.705 BTC [-]	[23:16]
cryptrader	And gox just recently had to handle 10x their usual volume and increased ddos attacks of course they're struggling	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	perfect case for going to jale	[23:16]
Lyspooner	which one is vessenes	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	the ycombinator schmoozie.	[23:17]
TomServo	mircea_popescu: What is/are NAT.ROUTERS?	[23:17]
Scrat	mircea_popescu: lol	[23:17]
cryptrader	That said I'm all for a decentralized exchange or at least a few more good options.	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	TomServo itams of connectivity within the interwebs	[23:17]
TomServo	nyuk nyuk	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	:D	[23:17]
TomServo	Just a joke?	[23:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4234 @ 0.00070232 = 2.9736 BTC [-]	[23:17]
*	jborkl (~jborkl@71.20.87.176) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:18]
*	jborkl has quit (Changing host)	[23:18]
*	jborkl (~jborkl@unaffiliated/jborkl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	yea	[23:18]
jurov	sry for confusion. i misread "but otherwise usagi history is horrible."	[23:19]
*	jborkl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	[23:20]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.7698 BTC [-]	[23:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00381 BTC [-]	[23:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 25 @ 0.0038 = 0.095 BTC [-]	[23:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 85 @ 0.0036 = 0.306 BTC [-]	[23:27]
*	bitessak (~androirc@27-238.193-178.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:30]
bitessak	;;ticker	[23:30]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 134.80000, Best ask: 134.88800, Bid-ask spread: 0.08800, Last trade: 134.88000, 24 hour volume: 117768.41535527, 24 hour low: 110.00000, 24 hour high: 142.12000, 24 hour vwap: 127.86503	[23:30]

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