Forum logs for 01 Mar 2015
Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes tis complicated. | [00:05] |
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cazalla | anyone know if i'm missing any from the list? http://i.imgur.com/CFu2wJZ.png just using alexa as one metric, will find others for use in comparison each month going | [00:36] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1zOPv1R ) | [00:36] |
cazalla | oops, forget to remove tardstalk from that one (have a longer list with other non news sites) | [00:37] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42546 @ 0.00040542 = 17.249 BTC [+] | [00:55] |
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asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: any more information on the Chinese run << of al's eötvös experiment ? just some private correspondence, where he confirms the same story told on usenet | [01:06] |
asciilifeform | (i have no reason not to believe him) | [01:07] |
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asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: ditto the roach repellent | [01:07] |
asciilifeform | though i have not tried it personally, nor do i know enough about roaches to say if there are nuances not accounted for | [01:08] |
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asciilifeform | (i did work through a good chunk of the maths behind al's eötvös adventures, for own edification and to attempt to come up with a way to rescue him - to learn how that went, see old thread) | [01:09] |
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asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: you will notice the imperial mooks got utterly owned in that play << afaik usg accomplished their one non-negotiable thing in iraq - break the orcs into eternally-warring bantustans, 'vaccinate' against any possible emergence of a real sovereign | [01:13] |
asciilifeform | plus they churned inventory, the real immediate purpose of all usg .mil maneuvers | [01:13] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: the merging of those two ideas yields a pretty powerful metaphor. << let's have the ps0t, yes. looking forward to reading it | [01:15] |
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asciilifeform | decimation: the 'gpu issue' happens on even more recent macbooks << it's been a thing ever since the mandatory switch to pb-free | [01:15] |
gabriel_laddel | (for the record, I've not run the numbers on Schwartz's experiment yet, don't know for sure yet that it is valid, but can say that yes, everything he says is falsifiable and yes, everyone who say "he is a crank" etc. is a lying scumbag for not pointing out the exact sentence where he missteps. EG: http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/7757/weak-equivalence-principle-tests in which a "string theorist" knowingly | [01:16] |
gabriel_laddel | glosses over the whole point of the experiment, which he would know if he has read it) | [01:16] |
assbot | parity - Weak equivalence principle tests - Physics Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1AI8MGd ) | [01:16] |
asciilifeform | decimation: it is quite possibly impractical to make bga (ball grid array) ic packages without pb | [01:16] |
asciilifeform | but they insist on it anyway | [01:16] |
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asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: let's put it this way. the theoretical work gives very specific - numeric - predictions | [01:17] |
asciilifeform | that could easily be tested. | [01:17] |
gabriel_laddel | yep. | [01:17] |
gabriel_laddel | that should be clear to anyone reading it | [01:18] |
gabriel_laddel | I'm not going to claim to know that the math works out unless I do it myself though | [01:18] |
asciilifeform | 'For example, Newton's apple contains vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) which is parity-asymmetric, and it would accelerate differently if the laws of gravity cared about the mirror images.' << lying scum, yes. implying that effect cannot exist because not observable with naked eye on naturally-occurring objects | [01:18] |
asciilifeform | whereas all kinds of bullshit, which cannot be observed anywhere, ever, even in principle - is entirely real to a 'string theorist.' | [01:19] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00040538 = 6.6888 BTC [-] | [01:19] |
asciilifeform | physics - as a discipline - is 99+% tumour, with scarcely any patient tissue remaining | [01:21] |
asciilifeform | of the ordinary sort | [01:21] |
gabriel_laddel | reality will do a backtracking branch cut soon enough | [01:21] |
gabriel_laddel | we just have to wait | [01:21] |
asciilifeform | all tumours eventually stop growing... | [01:21] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: btw, do you know any category theory? | [01:22] |
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asciilifeform | only the very basics. | [01:23] |
gabriel_laddel | it seem to me that they're not doing the obvious, which bothers me somewhat. | [01:24] |
asciilifeform | the experiment ? | [01:24] |
asciilifeform | well, yes. | [01:24] |
asciilifeform | if they did it, someone, somewhere, might dig up the fella who actually invented it | [01:24] |
gabriel_laddel | nah, the obvious, in the case of category theory: Sucking up all the mathematics ever via some OCR routines and categorizing it via computer. Have an intern write a parser for latex -> ast | [01:25] |
asciilifeform | the whole affair went on in its current form far too long for the usual dance of the buggers - 'pretend it never happened' - to go as does | [01:25] |
* | asciilifeform head-desks | [01:25] |
gabriel_laddel | my basic understanding of category theory is that there are interesting things that can be derived when you break down basic mathematics into some abstractions such as functors, mappings etc. | [01:26] |
asciilifeform | 1) ocr doesn't work because 99.99% is still ludicrously low - human reader -who fully understands the text- still required 2) no ocr exists or is reasonably likely to ever exist for anything rich in notation 3) the machine-readability of most mathematical work is a fully ai-complete problem | [01:26] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: if you're thinking of a human-cranked systematization project, straight to doug lenat's 'cyc' (i'll spoil it for you: it was stillborn) | [01:27] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: this is exactly what I was thinking of | [01:28] |
gabriel_laddel | well, I've not looked at cyc yet, but thanks for the pointer. | [01:28] |
asciilifeform | !s cyc | [01:28] |
assbot | 6 results for 'cyc' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cyc | [01:28] |
* | gabriel_laddel hand-cranked systematization is exactly what I had in mind | [01:28] |
asciilifeform | the politics of cyc etc. aside, such projects are about as interesting as the historical proposals to go to the moon in balloons, shooting men from cannons, etc. | [01:29] |
asciilifeform | fact is, we haven't actually built computers yet | [01:29] |
mircea_popescu | cazalla alexa's pretty clueless fwiw. | [01:29] |
asciilifeform | any more than montgolfier brothers had 'aviation' | [01:29] |
cazalla | mircea_popescu, yeah but at least it is clueless to each site equally on the list | [01:30] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform nonsense. the middle east always was enternally-warring. this is like husband stuck with a bad divorce, "at least i made her into a slut" | [01:30] |
mircea_popescu | mno. | [01:30] |
asciilifeform | iraq had (past tense, note) army, industry, economy | [01:30] |
asciilifeform | now has soup | [01:31] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel string theorists are a lot like freudian psychanalists. the better ones follow the lieberman line. | [01:31] |
mircea_popescu | the rest... | [01:31] |
mircea_popescu | cazalla no, it's not. | [01:32] |
mircea_popescu | think of it in terms of throwing bowling balls at a tree from outer space. you won't get within a mile. and if the first ball lands 735`331meters rom the tree, the next five won't land 735`331 meters from the next five threes. | [01:34] |
mircea_popescu | trees* | [01:34] |
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mircea_popescu | [01:35] | |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: i devised a test costing approximately 50k usd. | [01:35] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: al ended up having to explain to me... well, the concept i outlined in the first thread re: this subject here in #b-a | [01:35] |
asciilifeform | regarding provenance. | [01:35] |
mircea_popescu | exactly. | [01:36] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108600 @ 0.00040512 = 43.996 BTC [-] {3} | [01:36] |
mircea_popescu | and that ftr is a valid objection. | [01:36] |
asciilifeform | (most of the 50k, in case anyone cares, covers two well-used microcalorimeters.) | [01:36] |
mircea_popescu | incidentally, in the ideal model which sits at the fundament of us academia, this would have been arranged over a phone call and tried the next week. | [01:37] |
mircea_popescu | for free. | [01:37] |
asciilifeform | it was a perfectly valid objection, which is why the experiment will not happen publicly on this side of the coming civilizational demolition. | [01:37] |
mircea_popescu | and ironically, it's the environment i grew up in. | [01:37] |
asciilifeform | i actually worked with a number of folks at the time who were ready to wangle access to the instruments for me. | [01:38] |
asciilifeform | but al didn't want to pursue | [01:38] |
mircea_popescu | why not ? | [01:38] |
asciilifeform | well, he would have had to blow a rather expensive single-use wad | [01:38] |
mircea_popescu | um ? | [01:39] |
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mircea_popescu | re alexa : last time i measured their accuracy, it came out to about 96% error rating. ie, if alexa reads 100, it can see anything between 4 and 2500. | [01:41] |
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asciilifeform | synthetic crystal of two chiral isomers of $censored that would have, according to the model, very small difference in energy of phase change | [01:41] |
asciilifeform | in a way not accounted for by any previously known effect | [01:42] |
mircea_popescu | i don't get it. he didn't want the experiment made in the end ? | [01:42] |
asciilifeform | he understood that it wasn't free | [01:43] |
asciilifeform | that is, that a failure for any number of reasons unrelated to the physical prediction - such as my hands growing out of my arse - would set him back (if such a thing were possible) years | [01:43] |
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asciilifeform | anyone who wants to know what was going through his head - write to him! i don't relish playing 'broken telephone' | [01:44] |
asciilifeform | and the man can speak for himself, and really ought to | [01:44] |
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pete_dushenski | ;) | [01:46] |
pete_dushenski | mircea_popescu stoner paratrooper << fighters have a lot of relaxing to do! | [01:47] |
pete_dushenski | http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/01/the-asylum-has-its-moments/ | [01:50] |
assbot | The asylum has its moments. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/17H8NP6 ) | [01:50] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform i dun follow this logic. | [01:50] |
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asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: it made sense to me. 'the lysenkoists refuse to even try' is bad enough, but 'see, somebody tried, it failed, shuddup' is quite possibly worse | [01:52] |
asciilifeform | so if trying, has to be the 'full nine yards' | [01:52] |
mircea_popescu | why does he care about implication footsie game ? | [01:52] |
asciilifeform | rather than some kid and ratty old instruments from us army | [01:52] |
mircea_popescu | no, it doesn't. if you try, you gotta try. | [01:52] |
asciilifeform | iirc, it was an even bet whether the effect - if real - is even large enough to measure with current instrumentation at all | [01:53] |
mircea_popescu | check it out, the web2.0 is being useful : http://www.wikihow.com/Play-Footsie | [01:53] |
assbot | How to Play Footsie: 5 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbvOY2 ) | [01:53] |
mircea_popescu | i hope you're changing the world, schmuckos! | [01:53] |
gabriel_laddel | iirc, it was an even bet whether the effect - if real - is even large enough to measure with current instrumentation at all << this makes a great deal of sense | [01:55] |
mircea_popescu | this can't be a rationale not to try. | [01:55] |
asciilifeform | basically he insisted that a negative result must come from one of the two eotvos torsion balances | [01:55] |
gabriel_laddel | he isn't giving up, as far as I know, but biding his time | [01:55] |
asciilifeform | as i gather, he's engaged in a contest of who-dies-first with adelberger | [01:56] |
mircea_popescu | "biding his time" ? | [01:56] |
asciilifeform | see above | [01:56] |
mircea_popescu | suppose i go make the measurement myself ? | [01:56] |
mircea_popescu | not like it's tied to his forehead. | [01:56] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: i confess, i almost decided to | [01:56] |
thestringpuller | mircea_popescu: how would i learn to play footsie if not via a wikihow article? | [01:56] |
asciilifeform | might do it still | [01:56] |
asciilifeform | if ever get out of here alive | [01:56] |
gabriel_laddel | mircea_popescu: the opposition lie through their teeth at every given moment, you don't want to give them anything to work with | [01:56] |
mircea_popescu | this is science not politics, what's biding your time do. | [01:56] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel this is not how it works. | [01:57] |
gabriel_laddel | mircea_popescu: did you read the stackoverflow post linked above? | [01:57] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00039163 = 2.9764 BTC [-] | [01:57] |
mircea_popescu | i confess i did not. why would it matter ? | [01:57] |
mircea_popescu | science has no opposition. | [01:57] |
gabriel_laddel | lemme finish making this burrito and I'll write up something on the game being played | [01:58] |
mircea_popescu | my empanadas are made already. | [01:58] |
mircea_popescu | thestringpuller makes you wonder how children were made before they invented shoes. | [02:00] |
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thestringpuller | mircea_popescu: I thought you know storks and stuff... | [02:01] |
asciilifeform | http://www.loper-os.org/pub/chiral.jpg << pet critter holding my [6.6]chiralane. | [02:01] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/17H9F6w ) | [02:01] |
asciilifeform | from those das | [02:01] |
asciilifeform | *days | [02:01] |
asciilifeform | (whazzat? http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.paper.SCS.2008-4nS.petitjean.pdf << original paper, schwartz & petitjean - they co-invented it) | [02:02] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/17H9HeH ) | [02:02] |
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asciilifeform | phun phact, it broke the definition of 'chirality' taught in schoolbooks | [02:02] |
asciilifeform | had 'handedness' but no 'chiral centers' - that is, carbon atoms that are topologically 'key' | [02:03] |
mircea_popescu | what's in the middle, sulphur ? | [02:03] |
asciilifeform | that is, each carbon has -exactly the same thing- on all four bonds | [02:03] |
asciilifeform | all c | [02:03] |
asciilifeform | well, outer h'es not shown | [02:04] |
asciilifeform | (as they typically aren't on a model) | [02:04] |
mircea_popescu | but the big ball in teh centre | [02:04] |
asciilifeform | fat carbon for clarity | [02:04] |
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asciilifeform | l0l | [02:04] |
asciilifeform | yeah everybody asks about fat carbon | [02:04] |
asciilifeform | everyone i ever showed it to | [02:04] |
mircea_popescu | a lol k | [02:05] |
asciilifeform | actually my explanation is off, the center is topologically unique. but the thing meets none of the ochem textbook graph-theoretical definitions for chirality | [02:07] |
asciilifeform | but is optically non-superimposable on its mirror image | [02:07] |
asciilifeform | and, incidentally, there are other chiralanes possible (you can generate them as computer model, that is. there is, afaik, no known synthesis for any of them) | [02:08] |
asciilifeform | anyone who still gives a damn - read the paper. | [02:08] |
asciilifeform | http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/chiral2.gif http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/schwart3.png << for those who can do 'crosseye' | [02:09] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cbytkp ) | [02:09] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cbytku ) | [02:09] |
asciilifeform | and o hey | [02:10] |
asciilifeform | http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/a/9771 | [02:10] |
assbot | organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbyBAs ) | [02:10] |
asciilifeform | al's still kicking. | [02:10] |
gabriel_laddel | What Al would like to test is pretty simple. Is gravity mirror-symmetric? If it is, then you can drop two stereoisomers in a vacuum, and they'll fall at the same rate. We don't know that this is the case, and the universe actually violates mirror-symmetry on many scales. Perhaps a violation will be observable. | [02:10] |
gabriel_laddel | But you have to test it. | [02:10] |
ben_vulpes | (people can't do "crosseye"?) | [02:10] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: the interesting thing, and important to explain mircea_popescu's puzzlement, is that the enemy has been studiously arranging experiments to avoid actually testing the effect in question and declaring it 'settled' | [02:11] |
asciilifeform | or rather, the question of nonexistence as 'settled' | [02:11] |
mircea_popescu | eh get out already. | [02:11] |
mircea_popescu | "the enemy" coudl as well be in korea. | [02:11] |
asciilifeform | seriously | [02:11] |
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gabriel_laddel | The Eot-wash group won't test this. And the string theorist in that stackoverflow question is more than happy to state that because a large construction of molecules falls at the speed we expect it to, it couldn't possibly happen on a small scale. | [02:12] |
asciilifeform | they proclaimed 'settled' after 'carefully testing' left- and right-handed machine screws in a torsion balance | [02:12] |
gabriel_laddel | which is obviously horse shit | [02:12] |
asciilifeform | and failing to find difference | [02:12] |
asciilifeform | lysenko lives | [02:12] |
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gabriel_laddel | left and right handed machine screws != chirality !11! | [02:12] |
gabriel_laddel | but the grant funding people don't know this | [02:12] |
mircea_popescu | but this is not germane to the issue. | [02:13] |
mircea_popescu | we're not discussing why some other blokes aren't testing it, we're discussing why the proponent isn't. | [02:13] |
asciilifeform | the actual matter here is 'what's one physical effect vs hundred thousand respectable careers of respectable people (tm)' | [02:13] |
mircea_popescu | and the proponent can't be doing or not doing "because of other people" (tm) | [02:13] |
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asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: he thought (as of our last at-length exchange, ~3 yrs or so) that he still had a chance to make the torsion balance owners see the light | [02:14] |
gabriel_laddel | mircea_popescu: but this is not germane to the issue. << Oh, but it is. These people are prepared to lie at every turn. See the stack overflow post, or the output of the Eot-wash group. If Al or Stan were make a mistake in the run, they'd never be able to test it again. | [02:15] |
gabriel_laddel | check this out http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/ | [02:15] |
assbot | HOME | The Eöt-Wash Group ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbzEAt ) | [02:15] |
asciilifeform | incidentally, he mentioned that other folks also offered to arrange, and he held off for same reason | [02:15] |
gabriel_laddel | "1) Search for experimental signs of quantum gravity that violate Einstein's Equivalence Principle and/or the Newtonian inverse-square law." | [02:15] |
gabriel_laddel | fuckwads | [02:15] |
asciilifeform | aha see they are only interested in finding effect predicted by the usg-sponsored paper machine | [02:16] |
asciilifeform | if it doesn't exist, they'd rather not turn up anything | [02:16] |
asciilifeform | and certainly not a 'crackpot'-predicted boojum | [02:16] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel exactly why not lol ? | [02:16] |
asciilifeform | the legitimacy of the whole shebang is at stake | [02:16] |
gabriel_laddel | As far as I can tell, it comes down to the basic strategic necessity of killing your enemy when you indend to. | [02:16] |
mircea_popescu | ... | [02:17] |
gabriel_laddel | If you're not strong enough now, retreat, lick your wounds and then strike when the time is right. | [02:17] |
mircea_popescu | i never heard of this bizarro shamanistic approach to research. | [02:17] |
mircea_popescu | the shit's hard enough without waiting for complex voodoo to allign. | [02:17] |
gabriel_laddel | !s cognitive dissonance | [02:17] |
assbot | 13 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cognitive+dissonance | [02:17] |
gabriel_laddel | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-11-2014#937006 | [02:17] |
assbot | Logged on 27-11-2014 15:36:04; mircea_popescu: no wonder everyone in the us needs a college degree. there's no way native intelligence could deal with a tenth of the cognitive dissonance dished out on a daily basis. | [02:17] |
mircea_popescu | just measure the damned thing. if it doesn't come out, either refine the machinery or give up. | [02:17] |
gabriel_laddel | the US is fucking nuts right now. you live in a bubble of sanity | [02:17] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: let's gedankenexperiment. say we build the thing and it runs as predicted (see the last chemistry.stackexchange link for what we'd be doing, roughly) | [02:18] |
mircea_popescu | if it does come out, put it on your blog and move on. | [02:18] |
asciilifeform | then what | [02:18] |
mircea_popescu | who the fuck cares what anyone else does ? | [02:18] |
* | assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski | [02:18] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform that's it. | [02:18] |
asciilifeform | al doesn't, as i understand, agree. he wants it to keep walking from there | [02:18] |
asciilifeform | which takes a few $b in imperial money | [02:18] |
mircea_popescu | you will notice that the scam foundation is being fucking buried. in spite of... welll... consensus. | [02:18] |
mircea_popescu | this shit only works if you buy into it. | [02:19] |
* | Dr-G2 (~Dr-G@gtng-d9bf77a0.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [02:19] |
mircea_popescu | all this nonsense of little girl stuck on the trans side of maturity river, discussing whether she wants to cross or not, what if the cis side won't be all that it's cracked up to be etc. wtf. | [02:20] |
mircea_popescu | maturity is not optional. | [02:20] |
ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: walk where? wants grant money for himself as a result of the discovery? | [02:20] |
asciilifeform | have the thing pursued | [02:20] |
mircea_popescu | well it's certainly closer to being pursued after being measured than before eh. | [02:20] |
asciilifeform | see if effect can be had somewhere -left- of the eigth decimal | [02:20] |
asciilifeform | for actual practical uses | [02:20] |
asciilifeform | (we discussed some) | [02:20] |
mircea_popescu | imagine! "i won't accidentally discover clorophorm unless it can be used as an anesthetic!" | [02:21] |
mircea_popescu | this meta cancer upon the modern brain. people spend so much time considering "the implications" of shit that never happened they have no energy left to do stuff. | [02:22] |
asciilifeform | what if chlorophorm cost what the 'difference engine' cost. | [02:22] |
mircea_popescu | i suppose it's time to do a kickstarter. | [02:22] |
asciilifeform | l0l | [02:22] |
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* | mircea_popescu links http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ here, and then proceeds to quote from http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ | [02:25] |
assbot | Causes and purposes pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbBiC4 ) | [02:25] |
assbot | How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbBkdf ) | [02:25] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought you had a handle on the 'provenance' thing - that is, that al doesn't win unless his opponents actually lose by their own rules and surrender by their own free hand | [02:25] |
mircea_popescu | "This flat, unyielding ignorance-as-the-forerunner-of-oblivion is both perfectly safev and exactly the adequate pill for the poison in dicussion, because it expends very little productive effort on the part of the productive members of society, while at the same time forcing upon the unproductive the exact Gordian knot they've been trying to talk their way around (and plenty, no doubt, hoped they had succeeded). That k | [02:25] |
mircea_popescu | not is of course practice, which is to say : if I were to declare I am ignoring "all that Einstein jazz", all physics penned after 1900 or so, and then built a cathodic tube television that worked just fine without accounting for quantum effects, the trashing and bashing of Einstein fans would be all in vain : I'll just shrug my shoulders, keep building and selling my television sets and care not on whit of whatever th | [02:25] |
mircea_popescu | ey may write." | [02:25] |
asciilifeform | that is, if one day we simply exterminate them, he still hasn't really won, just sat down in lysenko's throne | [02:26] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform nothing keeps him from forking chemistry tho. | [02:26] |
gabriel_laddel | !s lab nigger | [02:26] |
assbot | 2 results for 'lab nigger' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lab+nigger | [02:26] |
* | Dr-G2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | [02:26] |
asciilifeform | al actually spent years battling idiots who 'forked physics' and 'forked chemistry' on usenet, in much the same style as mpoe-pr battled btc sc4mz0rz | [02:26] |
asciilifeform | it isn't really a concept he finds digestible | [02:27] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform there is a fundamental difference between lysenko (nutter whose shit DIDNT WORK) and this (if it works) | [02:27] |
gabriel_laddel | Not as easy as it sounds. Life is finite, as exemplified by MP not reading Al's experiment spec, and Al not being MP | [02:27] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform look, irrespective of all that : he can just do the thing. | [02:27] |
asciilifeform | except if the difference only becomes palpable a few $b and decades later, it does't really exist to the naked eye | [02:27] |
mircea_popescu | so / | [02:27] |
mircea_popescu | it is still a material step that way. | [02:27] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: the conclusive test requires the torsion rotor | [02:27] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: would you mind explaining the exact logistics of the equipment you'd need to put together to run the experiment? | [02:28] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: there were two proposed experiments. | [02:28] |
gabriel_laddel | so as to demonstrate exactly why it isn't as easy as "just measure the thing" | [02:29] |
asciilifeform | the one i very nearly ended up participating in, is described (roughly) in earlier link | [02:29] |
asciilifeform | http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/a/9771 | [02:29] |
assbot | organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/17Hc1SN ) | [02:29] |
asciilifeform | or actually | [02:29] |
asciilifeform | only the feedstock is described therein | [02:29] |
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gabriel_laddel | mircea_popescu: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm#a5 | [02:30] |
assbot | PURSUING THE LIMITS OF FAILED SYMMETRY ... ( http://bit.ly/17Hc4OA ) | [02:30] |
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asciilifeform | see vi. parity calorimetry experiment | [02:31] |
asciilifeform | section 'VIII. Parity Molecular Rotors' was my demented suggestion | [02:31] |
asciilifeform | (suitably poured into the mold of the physically practical by al's expert hands) | [02:32] |
asciilifeform | notice specific predicted divergence in microwave spectrogram. | [02:32] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel the problem isn't exactly of the equipment. the problem is that if you make new equipment, you don't know if you're measuring the new equipment vs the old equipment or an actual effect. | [02:33] |
asciilifeform | remember http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846621 ? | [02:33] |
assbot | Logged on 27-09-2014 02:36:41; asciilifeform: 'If you're a defendant, you don't get to claim your fingerprints miraculously appeared at a crime scene... If you're a bookkeeper, you don't get to say money miraculously disappeared from your company...' | [02:33] |
gabriel_laddel | mircea_popescu: I don't know the cost associated with calibrating these instruments and can't speak to the truth of that | [02:34] |
asciilifeform | essentially, according to 'neutral' folks in physics, al simply doesn't -get to- make the instrument | [02:34] |
mircea_popescu | well you asked as to the logisticsa. | [02:34] |
asciilifeform | it doesn't count if it's his | [02:34] |
asciilifeform | or, at this point, mine | [02:34] |
asciilifeform | or mircea_popescu's | [02:34] |
asciilifeform | in order for it to 'count' - yes, we have to 'fork physics' | [02:34] |
gabriel_laddel | mircea_popescu: well, I was asking Stan specifically becuase he could supply detailed information as to costs and political constraints | [02:34] |
gabriel_laddel | which you have hand-waved away | [02:35] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: i can only speak re: the costs of the component which i was to wangle time on | [02:35] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: well, as the resident expert, would you mind expounding on these costs? | [02:35] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform here's a thought : if al spent the past five years measuring things rather than skulking, he'd be in a much better position todasy than five years ago. | [02:35] |
gabriel_laddel | just so we have a sense? | [02:35] |
mircea_popescu | ya kno ? | [02:35] |
asciilifeform | incidentally, iirc i also suggested use of microbolometer (aka infrared camera chip die) as a cheapo version of microcalorimeter | [02:35] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: he operates under constraints quite similar to mine | [02:36] |
asciilifeform | that is, works in jungle conditions | [02:36] |
mircea_popescu | yeah, wellllll.... | [02:36] |
asciilifeform | i even marvel that he managed to grow the benzil crystal without going to jail | [02:36] |
mircea_popescu | why would he go to jail ? | [02:37] |
mircea_popescu | i grew permanganate crystals, at least that's a meth precurso. | [02:37] |
asciilifeform | unlicensed possession of glassware, caustics, 'drug precursors', ... | [02:37] |
gabriel_laddel | intent to manufacture... | [02:37] |
decimation | asciilifeform: it seems the polarization version of the experiment would be much easier to set up | [02:37] |
mircea_popescu | !up kyuupichan | [02:37] |
-assbot- | You voiced kyuupichan for 30 minutes. | [02:37] |
* | assbot gives voice to kyuupichan | [02:37] |
mircea_popescu | eh get out. | [02:38] |
kyuupichan | Hello, bitbet is stuck on the blockchain. | [02:38] |
mircea_popescu | kakobrekla ? | [02:38] |
asciilifeform | ! | [02:38] |
kyuupichan | Once it catches up please review submitted bets. | [02:38] |
kyuupichan | thx | [02:39] |
mircea_popescu | if thjey got rejected you'll prolly have to resubmit. | [02:39] |
kyuupichan | Got rejected as no zeroconf but they were, so either reconsider or refund, but at the moment as you think zero was sent you won't be refunding anything right? | [02:39] |
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mircea_popescu | it'll refund once it catches up im sure. | [02:40] |
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kyuupichan | Perhaps site needs an alarm where e.g. it's compared vs blockchain.info or blockr.io? | [02:41] |
mircea_popescu | this might be an idea. | [02:42] |
asciilifeform | 'A money-losing economy, like a money-losing restaurant, sucks. It sucks in all kinds of ways that have no apparent connection to finance. The entire dining experience is grim. This, indeed, is the experience of the entire "old economy" outside the little bubbles of Silicon Valley and Wall Street. My in-laws live in Columbus. Columbus sucks. Even with Chairman Ben's 85-billion-a-month bond-buying "recovery." It is more | [02:46] |
asciilifeform | and more palpably a Soviet restaurant.' | [02:46] |
asciilifeform | ^ from mr mold's old post, dropped here for the record | [02:46] |
gabriel_laddel | why? | [02:47] |
asciilifeform | his problem, like al's, is quite arguably: that he hasn't fully accepted death yet. | [02:47] |
asciilifeform | and so tries to carve some corner for himself in the shadow of the seemingly-invincible thousand-year reich | [02:48] |
gabriel_laddel | Ah. I'd like to point out that Al, unlike Mr. M has done useful work in the interim. | [02:48] |
asciilifeform | what al does in his cellar, only the devil knows | [02:48] |
gabriel_laddel | From what I could tell, from reading his usenet posts, he continues to work at Occidental research corp. | [02:48] |
asciilifeform | i'll point out that publishing -everything- one does is generally a habit of mediocrities desperate for attention | [02:49] |
mircea_popescu | the soviet restaurant thing is quite palpable here in argentina. | [02:49] |
mircea_popescu | the places where usians go ? shit service, shit food. | [02:49] |
mircea_popescu | the rest of the city ? great service, great food. | [02:49] |
* | asciilifeform doesn't publicize so much as a fraction of a percent of what he spends time on | [02:49] |
mircea_popescu | it's almost as if they deliberately constructed a home away from home, these people. | [02:49] |
asciilifeform | (same probably for everyone here) | [02:49] |
mircea_popescu | i can't tell you how many times i've stormed out of a shithole, inexplicable in context. | [02:49] |
mircea_popescu | mthreat saw a few instances. | [02:49] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: the observation that usa tends to 'follow' the expats wherever they happen to congregate en masse, is an old one | [02:50] |
mircea_popescu | there's even a chain of HORRIBLE icecream. in this town, that has the best icecream i have ever tasted, by a long shot, and abundantly supplied by numerous artisanal gelaterias | [02:50] |
asciilifeform | fred 'fred on everything' reed mentioned it in his books | [02:50] |
mircea_popescu | the usians have a fucktarded chain selling the worst goop. | [02:50] |
asciilifeform | my brain melted the first time i learned that many folks in usa can't really make themselves eat actual food | [02:51] |
asciilifeform | and only feel the least bit comfortable eating the recycled kind | [02:51] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform see, now tell me this : how does teh ussa follow teh expat masse ? shadow fuhrer directs it ? | [02:53] |
decimation | I had a similar experience when I went to italy on holiday | [02:53] |
mircea_popescu | or is it just, like the gestapo, simply the only shared figment of their infertile imaginations ? | [02:53] |
asciilifeform | there's a great ru line from, i think, 'dog's heart' | [02:53] |
asciilifeform | something like 'decay isn't this old witch who walks around, it's you and i having bad aim and missing the pisser' | [02:53] |
decimation | in the major italian tourist cities, the 'inner ring' around the tourist sites are full of restraunts that are obvious chumpatrons targeting usians and germans | [02:54] |
mircea_popescu | there's fruit, and it's grandiose. then there's "fruit", imported by supermarkets for the usian market. you can get quite startling contrasts by buying in both. | [02:54] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: 'Что такое эта ваша разруха? Старуха с клюкой? Ведьма, которая выбила все стекла, потушила все лампы? Да ее вовсе и не существует. Что вы подразумеваете под этим словом? […] Это вот что: если я, вместо того, чтобы оперировать каждый | [02:54] |
asciilifeform | вечер, начну у себя в квартире петь хором, у меня настанет разруха. Если я, входя в уборную, начну, извините за выражение, мочиться мимо унитаза и то же самое будут делать Зина и Дарья Петровна, в уборной начнется разруха. Следовательно, р | [02:54] |
asciilifeform | азруха не в клозетах, а в головах. Значит, когда эти баритоны кричат «бей разруху!» — Я смеюсь. […] Клянусь вам, мне смешно! Это означает, что каждый из них должен лупить себя по затылку! И вот, когда он вылупит из себя всякие галлюцинации и | [02:54] |
asciilifeform | займется чисткой сараев — прямым своим делом, — разруха исчезнет сама собой. Двум богам служить нельзя! Невозможно в одно время подметать трамвайные пути и устраивать судьбы каких-то испанских оборванцев! Это никому не удается, докто | [02:54] |
mircea_popescu | o.O | [02:55] |
asciilifeform | р, и тем более — людям, которые, вообще отстав в развитии от европейцев лет на 200, до сих пор еще не совсем уверенно застегивают свои собственные штаны!' | [02:55] |
mircea_popescu | you'll get docked for spam! | [02:55] |
decimation | mircea_popescu: I assume you saw this article http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/21/a-feast-of-engineering-whats-really-in-your-food | [02:55] |
assbot | Inside the food industry: the surprising truth about what you eat | Life and style | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/17HedcY ) | [02:55] |
asciilifeform | i suppose i gotta translate it now | [02:55] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50099 @ 0.00039606 = 19.8422 BTC [+] {3} | [02:55] |
decimation | "The strapline for a product called Butter Buds®, described by its makers as “an enzyme-modified encapsulated butter flavour that has as much as 400 times the flavour intensity of butter”, sums it up in six words: “When technology meets nature, you save.”" | [02:55] |
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asciilifeform | problem is, 'разруха' doesn't translate. | [02:55] |
mircea_popescu | decimation i think it was here. i didn't care to check it out. | [02:55] |
decimation | it's as depressing as you would think | [02:55] |
asciilifeform | approx. 'ruin' but also shades of 'decay', 'decline', general civilizational degringolade | [02:56] |
decimation | "Over the past few years, the food industry has embarked on an operation it dubs “clean label”, with the goal of removing the most glaring industrial ingredients and additives, replacing them with substitutes that sound altogether more benign." "If you noticed that it contained an amino acid such as L-cysteine E910, your enthusiasm might wane, especially if you happen to know that this additive can be derived from animal and human | [02:57] |
decimation | hair. But a range of new-wave yeast extracts is increasingly replacing E910. " | [02:57] |
mircea_popescu | decimation there's a reason i don't live in "civilised" shitholes. i can taste their "feasts of engineering". | [02:57] |
mircea_popescu | anyway, everything in that world devolves to spam, it's one and only true mother. | [02:57] |
decimation | new! "contains" "natural" "ingredients"!! it's profitable for us and "ok" for you | [02:57] |
mircea_popescu | "labels limit the shitification of food ? SPAM THEM!" | [02:58] |
mircea_popescu | money prevents us from being stupid ? SPAM IT! | [02:58] |
mircea_popescu | pretty much the only thing the west ever does is, "try and spam it!" | [02:58] |
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mircea_popescu | somehow the world should be impressed with this "progress", much in the manner parents should be impressed with "look, no hands!" | [02:58] |
decimation | it smacks of 'all voice, no exit' | [02:59] |
mircea_popescu | not to mention the "all metaconsiderations, no agency" | [02:59] |
mircea_popescu | prolly the same exact fundamental. | [02:59] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=tLsXBtS9 << passable 'pro' translation | [03:00] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/17HeAUV ) | [03:00] |
asciilifeform | not mine | [03:00] |
decimation | yeah in fact the reason the us succeeded as it were for the first hundred years was because there was much empty virgin territory, so people could 'express agency' | [03:00] |
mircea_popescu | the story of individual america is basically one line : "there's no difference between the rich man and the poor man who hasn't yet decided what to buy". | [03:00] |
mircea_popescu | as if. but somehow, a billion idiots picked this bit of shoeshiner's philosophy as their foundational line. | [03:00] |
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mircea_popescu | lettuce all sit forever and ponder the implications of asking the girl out, of measuring the fucking crystals, of spitting on the ant. | [03:03] |
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mircea_popescu | draw up the entire putative history eight nine steps removed in all directions, till the night comes and we go home. | [03:03] |
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* | asciilifeform still thinks the crystal thing made perfect sense in light of protagonist not being ready to 'fork physics' | [03:04] |
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mircea_popescu | better men later on. | [03:05] |
mircea_popescu | but it's inescapable. everything's getting forked. gpg, linux, the world. | [03:05] |
asciilifeform | we, in spite of the sweat required, are the lucky fellas. | [03:06] |
asciilifeform | because don't need, at least for most of that list, $maxint | [03:07] |
asciilifeform | but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ? | [03:07] |
asciilifeform | build out of scrap iron in cellar ? | [03:07] |
* | assbot removes voice from kyuupichan | [03:08] |
asciilifeform | it is also not entirely clear to me where the 'better men' are to get the $b | [03:09] |
asciilifeform | and why they might like to throw it into a strongly -ev pit | [03:09] |
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asciilifeform | fact is, 'basic science' is -ev when viewed through the lens of a typical human lifespan | [03:09] |
gabriel_laddel | "measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange" | [03:10] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151550 @ 0.00041401 = 62.7432 BTC [+] {2} | [03:10] |
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decimation | asciilifeform: "-ev" < it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck' | [03:13] |
decimation | in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research | [03:13] |
gabriel_laddel | nein nein nein nein! | [03:14] |
asciilifeform | any who are inclined, as mircea_popescu seems to be, to think that 'any idea can be tested and developed in your cellar' should study the history of semiconductor | [03:14] |
gabriel_laddel | ;; google John Von Numann | [03:14] |
gribble | John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: |
[03:14] |
asciilifeform | which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product | [03:14] |
gabriel_laddel | ;; google manhattan project | [03:15] |
gribble | Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: |
[03:15] |
gabriel_laddel | ;; google symbolics inc | [03:15] |
gribble | Symbolics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: |
[03:15] |
gabriel_laddel | ;; google Leonardo Da Vinci | [03:15] |
gribble | Leonardo da Vinci - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: |
[03:15] |
gabriel_laddel | It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo | [03:15] |
gabriel_laddel | and countless derps before that | [03:16] |
decimation | gabriel_laddel: who was the 'herri seldon' who foresaw the development of leonardo? | [03:16] |
decimation | er, 'hari seldon' | [03:16] |
gabriel_laddel | decimation: afaik, no one predicted leonardo, but there were three generations of masters preceding him. He learned from their works | [03:17] |
gabriel_laddel | my point is that science does not advance "at random" | [03:17] |
gabriel_laddel | nor because of "cranks" | [03:17] |
decimation | but the earlier masters couldn't have predicted the results of their erudition | [03:18] |
gabriel_laddel | of course not | [03:18] |
gabriel_laddel | but that doesn't make it random | [03:18] |
gabriel_laddel | can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like? | [03:19] |
gabriel_laddel | we know sorta-kinda how it is going to function, but I expect to be pleasantly surprised | [03:19] |
decimation | I'm not using the word 'random' to mean 'acausal' | [03:19] |
asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#548254 << obligatory thread re: cranks | [03:19] |
assbot | Logged on 05-03-2014 23:06:12; asciilifeform: the 'time microscope' thing is typical of aging inventors who, by virtue of being cut off from competent peers (either by having none alive, or being on the wrong side of a jail of one kind or another) | [03:19] |
asciilifeform | 'crank' in this context is really anyone who 'forks science' and ends up an army-of-one | [03:20] |
asciilifeform | happily chugging along on his lonesome blockchain | [03:20] |
asciilifeform | (or not so happily, as the case may be) | [03:20] |
decimation | sometimes this happens in unconnected pairs | [03:20] |
* | copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) | [03:28] |
* | ben_vulpes checks to see if a > 1mb block is floating around | [03:29] |
gabriel_laddel | and sometimes it happens through e.g., MIT, Stanford, library of Alexandria, Manhattan Project | [03:30] |
gabriel_laddel | "it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck'" | [03:30] |
gabriel_laddel | ^ I don't see that this is true. | [03:31] |
decimation | what 'basic science' did the manhattan project advance? | [03:31] |
* | smidge (smidge@HSI-KBW-091-089-192-244.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [03:31] |
gabriel_laddel | the effective use of computing machines iirc | [03:31] |
gabriel_laddel | (is this 'basic science'? What is basic science?) | [03:32] |
gabriel_laddel | (conceptually basic, atoms and the like, or basic in the sense of a starting point that is eventually abandoned, e.g., alchemy) | [03:33] |
gabriel_laddel | is that science? | [03:33] |
asciilifeform | basic in the sense of maximally distant from applications. | [03:33] |
asciilifeform | e.g., boolean algebra in the lifetime of g. boole. | [03:33] |
asciilifeform | in the same sense as the base of a tower is the point maximally far from its tip. | [03:34] |
asciilifeform | and on which the rest of the tower - stands. | [03:34] |
gabriel_laddel | http://rin.io/ | [03:34] |
assbot | math is art | "Discovery is the privilege of the child: the child who has no fear of being once again wrong, of looking like an idiot, of not being serious, of not doing things like everyone else." — Grothendieck ... ( http://bit.ly/1DF4iA9 ) | [03:34] |
gabriel_laddel | ^ here is a blog I've not gotten around to reading yet | [03:34] |
gabriel_laddel | this girl was given 100k by Pete Thiel to think. | [03:35] |
gabriel_laddel | she is doing category theory and physics research. | [03:35] |
gabriel_laddel | Does this qualify? will she produce anything of interest? I don't yet know. | [03:35] |
gabriel_laddel | Christopher Olah, Thiel fellow. Does research on conv. neural networks. | [03:36] |
gabriel_laddel | is this basic science? | [03:36] |
asciilifeform | he also funded mr mold's crap. | [03:36] |
gabriel_laddel | and? | [03:36] |
asciilifeform | 'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush | [03:36] |
decimation | it seems to me that basic science is something that is only obvious in distant hindsight | [03:37] |
gabriel_laddel | my point is that this is an organized effort | [03:37] |
gabriel_laddel | and organized effords have existed in the past | [03:37] |
gabriel_laddel | they will exist in the future, assuming we don't end up glassing the whole planet | [03:38] |
gabriel_laddel | 'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-02-2015#1035968 | [03:38] |
assbot | Logged on 28-02-2015 04:19:51; mircea_popescu: if you ask the slut, often enough it's because "he's the only one that asked, and i was getting bored" | [03:38] |
asciilifeform | in that sense, the ubiquitous state lottery is also 'organized effort' | [03:38] |
asciilifeform | thus far i know of no particular reason why thiel picked the folks he did | [03:39] |
gabriel_laddel | (he is attempting to fund basic science) | [03:39] |
asciilifeform | except for a vague 'flavour' of 'up&coming young' | [03:39] |
asciilifeform | and he is, in that sense, continuing the tradition of the equally boring 'mcarthur prize' | [03:39] |
gabriel_laddel | I'm not saying that I beneficiary agree with Thiel's funding decisions, but I am pointing out that there are people attempting to fund basic science, and that there are two specific people I've cited who can be vetted for their contributions. | [03:40] |
asciilifeform | (can you name, off the top of your head, a single person who was given the prize - which is intended to set promising young thinkers free from workslavery) who amounted to anything ? | [03:40] |
gabriel_laddel | Christopher Olah | [03:40] |
asciilifeform | no idea who that was | [03:40] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform: but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ? <<< i thought it was 50k. | [03:41] |
asciilifeform | 50k for the might-work calorimetric variant | [03:41] |
decimation | so did the swiss patent office 'organize' to advance physics by paying einstein in exchange for clerk-serfdom? | [03:41] |
gabriel_laddel | http://colah.github.io/archive.html | [03:41] |
assbot | Archives - colah's blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNXZNa ) | [03:41] |
asciilifeform | decimation: no because serfdom | [03:41] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform understand, i'm not proposing anyone's obliged to follow any particular flight of fancy. | [03:41] |
mircea_popescu | but the proposition that one shouldn't or understandably wouldn't for it may turn out to be just fancy... that's nonsense. | [03:42] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: and to what does that thing amount ? | [03:42] |
mircea_popescu | this is the very stuff of life, following our flights of fancy. | [03:42] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: what would we lose if it never happened | [03:42] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: i did try to convince the fella. | [03:42] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: well, in Chris's case, some research on neural networks | [03:43] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform i recall. | [03:43] |
gabriel_laddel | In Rin's case, idk yet | [03:43] |
* | NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | [03:44] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: i confess that thiel's experiment would be considerably more interesting if it were 100m not 100k | [03:44] |
mircea_popescu | incidentally... olah is kinda how hungarians say romanian. | [03:44] |
mircea_popescu | corruption of valah | [03:44] |
asciilifeform | 100k buys half a garage where i live | [03:44] |
gabriel_laddel | A summary of my points. 1) there are some people attempting to fund basic science 2) I don't agree with all of their funding decisions 3) this isn't the first instance of this occuring in history | [03:44] |
asciilifeform | and two garages in alaska | [03:44] |
asciilifeform | but then he'd actually need a proper heuristic for choosing his 'soldiers' | [03:45] |
mircea_popescu | but thiel wants web2.0 not a new nuke. | [03:45] |
asciilifeform | and he hasn't a prayer, and knows it | [03:45] |
gabriel_laddel | 4) perhaps the fault lies with those attempting to peruse basic science, for not giving him a heuristic | [03:45] |
mircea_popescu | specifically for that reason, yes. | [03:45] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: find someone whose heuristic isn't 'give it to -me-' | [03:45] |
asciilifeform | and then talk to thiel | [03:45] |
mircea_popescu | lol | [03:46] |
asciilifeform | i'd guess that many folks can't even think about this subject without their brain melting from rage | [03:46] |
asciilifeform | 'why should -this- piece of shit get 100k to enjoy life, while i sit on this stake...' | [03:46] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037139 << of course. meanwhile the last attempt by some other kids to pretend this is the case just imploded ? | [03:46] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 06:05:50; gabriel_laddel: "measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange" | [03:46] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform i suspect the idea wasn't that, but to educate thiel so he's less of a schmuck. | [03:47] |
mircea_popescu | people with money they don't know what to do with are the very definition of schmuckdom | [03:47] |
gabriel_laddel | ^ yup | [03:47] |
asciilifeform | i'm not certain that it is possible to give him a heuristic good enough that he can ditch 'r-strategy' and go with 'k-strategy', to use the zoologist's terms | [03:47] |
gabriel_laddel | if you watch thiels videos in particular you can see that he wants to fund interesting things but doesn't know how | [03:47] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037142 << this is necessarily true, it directly flows from the definitions of the words you use. | [03:48] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 06:09:13; decimation: in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research | [03:48] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel or what they are. or how to look for them. essentially he's a girl that'd like to fuck but never heard of clothes, or make-up or going out. | [03:48] |
gabriel_laddel | lol I know | [03:48] |
mircea_popescu | thiel the nubile savage. | [03:48] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: he's stuck relying on 'legitimate' communities of 'domain experts' and is doomed to never see anything of genuine interest, which is 100% on crank islands | [03:49] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform dude gtfo, nobody said management is required to be illiterate. | [03:49] |
gabriel_laddel | Eh, I read his startup notes, he has a brain. | [03:49] |
gabriel_laddel | and uses it | [03:49] |
mircea_popescu | but not an education. | [03:49] |
* | mircea_popescu quotes newman : | [03:50] |
gabriel_laddel | it remains to be seen if he'll grok bitcoin. if he does, he'll probably end up funding interesting things. | [03:50] |
mircea_popescu | "the education which gives a man a clear conscious view of his own opinions and judgments, a truth in developing them, an eloquence in expressing them, and a force in urging them. It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought, to detect what is sophistical, and to discard what is irrelevant." | [03:50] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: think of how you, yourself, came upon al schwartz's thing | [03:50] |
gabriel_laddel | yes? | [03:50] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: was it by speaking with 'legit' physicists ? | [03:50] |
gabriel_laddel | No. | [03:50] |
* | mircea_popescu gleefully notices how alf is now using the "you yourself" device. | [03:50] |
asciilifeform | or with anyone to whom they might give the time of day? | [03:50] |
gabriel_laddel | Nope. | [03:51] |
asciilifeform | it was by hanging with sewer rats | [03:51] |
gabriel_laddel | lemme find the video | [03:51] |
gabriel_laddel | one sec | [03:51] |
asciilifeform | brown, grizzled, with monstrous teeth, no ? | [03:51] |
mircea_popescu | in this line : "oh mp must be insane to spend all his time on irc, if i was rich i'd do [???]". | [03:51] |
asciilifeform | would thiel read, e.g., my site ? | [03:51] |
asciilifeform | for all the platinum-iridium toilet in the world ? | [03:51] |
gabriel_laddel | he might | [03:51] |
asciilifeform | nope. and you can take that to the bank | [03:51] |
gabriel_laddel | and you know this how? | [03:52] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform what's the matter with it, you writing with different letters or something ? | [03:52] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel, mircea_popescu: simply pointing out that most fiat 'barons' are more like herr buffett than mircea_popescu | [03:52] |
mircea_popescu | but not for any structural reason, is the important point. | [03:53] |
asciilifeform | for the structural reason of preferring their familiar private kitchens to a sewer hatchway | [03:53] |
asciilifeform | that leads to hell knows where | [03:53] |
mircea_popescu | whether most women in x population are more like californians or saudis has nothing to do wit ha cunt being a cunt. | [03:53] |
asciilifeform | and smells funny | [03:53] |
ben_vulpes | [03:53] | |
gabriel_laddel | Youtube doesn't have grep, and I'm not going to troll through all these videos to find the one I'm thinking of. In any case, in one of them he states that "scientists have been replaced with baccarats" and that "MOOCs are not going anywhere" | [03:53] |
gabriel_laddel | vaguely related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFVsVnczYqY | [03:54] |
assbot | Peter Thiel Was Right - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNYvux ) | [03:54] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes it's pretty "disruptive" alright, huh. "what are we disrupting ?" "the moral fiber of society" | [03:54] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel actually moocs are the superlative american college. | [03:54] |
gabriel_laddel | baccarats -> bureaucrats | [03:54] |
* | ben_vulpes goes to buy a bottle of wine to fuel the ruby rage | [03:55] |
* | asciilifeform was actually trying to picture casino game | [03:55] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037154 << i have my doubts about this "productive" perspective. | [03:55] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 06:11:21; gabriel_laddel: It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo | [03:55] |
ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: i appreciated your point about hating programming recently | [03:55] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform gabriel_laddel i just parsed it as "a weird way to say mountebanks" | [03:55] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: i'm not even fully certain if i hate only programming specifically or work in general | [03:56] |
gabriel_laddel | 06:54 << becuase american college sucks | [03:56] |
mircea_popescu | well... because it's "universal". once no kid's left behind, the boat's not sailing anywhere. | [03:56] |
mircea_popescu | the very fucking point of academia is to sail away. | [03:56] |
gabriel_laddel | Yep. Which is my point. Thiel has detected this. | [03:57] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: thiel's spewing trendisms to work your hindbrain | [03:57] |
gabriel_laddel | Is he here in #b-a? No. | [03:57] |
ben_vulpes | work requires only energy. | [03:57] |
ben_vulpes | programming requires obscene mental contortions. | [03:57] |
ben_vulpes | oh and dealing with the output of people who "like it". | [03:57] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: if he was spewing trendisms he'd be /supporting/ the MOOCs | [03:57] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: i was speaking of work in the economic sense rather than physical | [03:57] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel there are two threads here. one is "thiel is dumb". this is not being entertained. the other is, "thiel's uneducated". this is my position. | [03:57] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: he's selective re: which trendisms to employ | [03:57] |
asciilifeform | so as to work your hindbrain. | [03:58] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: i'll add a third | [03:58] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037147 << if memory serves industrial productness was no part of the discussion. | [03:58] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 06:10:30; asciilifeform: which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product | [03:58] |
asciilifeform | which is that herr thiel is operating on an understanding with the folks who allow him to exist | [03:58] |
mircea_popescu | we're at the "known for a long time" hurdle yet. | [03:58] |
asciilifeform | that precludes certain things, and requires others | [03:58] |
mircea_popescu | that's a null hypothesis. | [03:58] |
mircea_popescu | for instance i said null hypothesis as part of a deal with my brain to allow me to continue to exist. | [03:59] |
asciilifeform | lol! | [03:59] |
asciilifeform | let's make it concrete | [03:59] |
mircea_popescu | (by nh i mean, a statement which has no content) | [03:59] |
asciilifeform | what do you suppose would happen if herr thiel decided to pump every penny he had into buying btc ? | [04:00] |
asciilifeform | how far would he get before 'having problems' | [04:00] |
mircea_popescu | indefinitely far. | [04:00] |
* | The20YearIRCloud has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) | [04:00] |
asciilifeform | would the folks who can zero his bank balance by pressing a button, let btc climb to 100k usd ? | [04:00] |
mircea_popescu | in your craziest models you don't have a hitler lizard tribe capable to handle such sudden bends of activity. | [04:00] |
asciilifeform | or use a ten cent bullet | [04:00] |
gabriel_laddel | WE DONT KNOW | [04:00] |
mircea_popescu | what you describe is a what, 3 sigma event ? there's not a plan in place for two sigma events even. banal shit like "they used plane as rocket" | [04:01] |
asciilifeform | this is more along the lines of the mircea_popescu article where 'buffett is not actually rich because his dollars can't be sent to isis' | [04:01] |
asciilifeform | ^ which is entirely true, imho | [04:02] |
mircea_popescu | so far my bitcoins are getting sent to the btc bears lol. | [04:02] |
mircea_popescu | anyway, whatever would happen would come as a surprise to everyone, including in no particular order : a) the people running btc-usd exchanges ; b) you ; c) the friendly usg log reader delegate ; d) isabelle boring or w/e her name is ; etc | [04:04] |
mircea_popescu | what WAS that chick's name ? | [04:04] |
asciilifeform | unless i catastrophically misunderstand, ^ the bears inevitably get the coin unless a fully bitcoinized supply chain materializes for mircea_popescu and others to use | [04:04] |
mircea_popescu | ;;google boring miss florida congressional aide made a derpy "bitcoin chamber of commerce" | [04:04] |
gribble | No matches found. | [04:04] |
mircea_popescu | sigh. | [04:04] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform no, i meant the berkshire bet. | [04:05] |
asciilifeform | ah | [04:05] |
* | asciilifeform confesses that he wondered if the purpose of that bet was not necessarily to win, but to soften a target | [04:05] |
asciilifeform | that is, to exhaust the resources of folks tasked with arranging mircea_popescu losing it | [04:05] |
mircea_popescu | https://bitcoinpresscenter.org/presslist-filtered/spoken-arabic << this shit's so lulzy. | [04:06] |
assbot | Bitcoin Press Center | A global media center for bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1zP24tZ ) | [04:06] |
mircea_popescu | and wtf is "rooteleven.com" anyway | [04:06] |
asciilifeform | ;;calc sqrt(11) | [04:07] |
gribble | 3.31662479036 | [04:07] |
asciilifeform | ^ it | [04:07] |
gabriel_laddel | 10:37 - who is that with Thiel, could it be the evil racist Charles Murray? | [04:08] |
gabriel_laddel | debating on the /same side/?!?!?! | [04:08] |
gabriel_laddel | That's not respectable at all! | [04:08] |
mircea_popescu | anyway, back to the intelligence vs education thing. i wish i had words to express my meaning in intelligible english. let's try by saying that a good mark of one's education is what sort of thing he fills his space with. | [04:08] |
* | asciilifeform won't give a damn if thiel appears with watson and putin also | [04:09] |
mircea_popescu | "but honey, you can't marry this guy. his parents have no library in the house!" | [04:09] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: this is, as far as I can tell, roughly the equivalent of reading your blog. | [04:10] |
* | hktud0 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | [04:10] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: lol nope. | [04:10] |
gabriel_laddel | ? | [04:10] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: you don't need to open a sewer hatchway to get to herr murray | [04:10] |
asciilifeform | or watson, or putin | [04:10] |
mircea_popescu | Charles Murray, 1st Earl of Dunmore ?! | [04:10] |
mircea_popescu | what murray is this ? | [04:11] |
asciilifeform | they're mainstream 'guiding lights', albeit - in the degenerate anglo world, with a 'minus' sign | [04:11] |
gabriel_laddel | mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(political_scientist) | [04:11] |
asciilifeform | nah the other one | [04:11] |
assbot | Charles Murray (political scientist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNZ33v ) | [04:11] |
asciilifeform | aha him | [04:11] |
mircea_popescu | "Charles Alan Murray (born 1943) is an American paleoconservative and paleolibertarian leaning political scientist, author, columnist, and pundit." | [04:11] |
mircea_popescu | what's "paleo" mean in wikipedia ? | [04:11] |
mircea_popescu | he doesn't eat bread with conservatives ? | [04:12] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: so wait, would visiting e.g., Schwartz qualify for "stepping into the sewer" | [04:12] |
asciilifeform | it would | [04:12] |
* | hktud0 (ncidsk@unaffiliated/fluffybunny) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [04:13] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: try to see the pattern here | [04:13] |
decimation | mircea_popescu: roughly, 'conservative' in america today means 'republican', which also means 'pro-state' | [04:13] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: I gotcha | [04:13] |
gabriel_laddel | finally. | [04:13] |
mircea_popescu | so paleo is anti-state ? | [04:13] |
decimation | not exactly, but he wouldn't be invited to any parties at cpac | [04:13] |
mircea_popescu | do words have any meanings whatsoever anymore ? | [04:13] |
mircea_popescu | THIS is a fine example of what i fucking mean by educated. | [04:14] |
asciilifeform | murray put his hands firmly on the 'third rail' in usa | [04:14] |
mircea_popescu | it doesn't matter how intelligent us kids are. | [04:14] |
mircea_popescu | in that cesspool they can't be anything but louts. | [04:14] |
decimation | mircea_popescu: modern us politics is a sandpile built upon equivocation | [04:14] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: you need a full body containment suit just to survive as a thinking man here. | [04:14] |
mircea_popescu | as opposed to what, finance ? | [04:14] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: preferably with closed filtration cycle | [04:14] |
mircea_popescu | or to wha texactly. erotica ? | [04:14] |
mircea_popescu | what part of english as a single language ISNT perpetual and universally equivocal synonymy | [04:15] |
mircea_popescu | Murray's Law: | [04:15] |
mircea_popescu | 1. The Law of Imperfect Selection: Any objective rule that defines eligibility for a social transfer program will irrationally exclude some persons. | [04:15] |
mircea_popescu | 2. The Law of Unintended Rewards: Any social transfer increases the net value of being in the condition that prompted the transfer. | [04:15] |
mircea_popescu | 3. The Law of Net Harm: The less likely it is that the unwanted behavior will change voluntarily, the more likely it is that a program to induce change will cause net harm. | [04:15] |
mircea_popescu | ok, that much makes sense. | [04:16] |
mircea_popescu | no idea why this'd be "murray's law", but at least i see something. | [04:16] |
gabriel_laddel | !s cognitive dissonance | [04:17] |
assbot | 16 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cognitive+dissonance | [04:17] |
gabriel_laddel | the US is fucking insane | [04:17] |
mircea_popescu | 1. Any rule applied uniformly over a group with a view to some purpose will result in measurable contradiction of the purpose before it results in measurable achievement of the purpose. | [04:17] |
gabriel_laddel | people try codifying common sense to make it more palatable - doesn't work | [04:17] |
decimation | generally, my understanding is that 'paleoconservatives' want to wind us society back to something resembling the 'cis-democracy' in that moldbug peice | [04:17] |
mircea_popescu | 2 is good as is. | [04:17] |
mircea_popescu | 3. too. | [04:17] |
mircea_popescu | cool. | [04:17] |
mircea_popescu | for the record, the earl dunmore was pretty cool too. | [04:18] |
decimation | one of murray's books advanced the idea that the ruling us elite were cutting asunder all social mores and strictures that bound the masses | [04:19] |
* | PinkPosixPXE (IdentUdent@2607:5300:60:69b1::1337:babe) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [04:19] |
mircea_popescu | i dun think this is controversial. | [04:19] |
asciilifeform | one of the mega-lulz re: 'paleoconservatives' is that most of these folks (that i've had the fortune of reading) struggle with a mental bug - they yearn to roll back to some known-good state where various old-school religions were still strong, but don't personally subscribe to them | [04:19] |
decimation | while they silently keep those mores alive amoung themselves | [04:19] |
asciilifeform | and openly profess to wish for a pill that would 'turn them catholic' or whatnot | [04:20] |
asciilifeform | mr mold once confessed that he might like an 'islamization pill' | [04:20] |
decimation | george will sort of fits that description | [04:20] |
asciilifeform | i, (in my mental card catalogue, naturally) call this 'the green pill' | [04:21] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform basically they yearn to be women. | [04:21] |
asciilifeform | adjunct to blue & red already in the pharmacy we know | [04:21] |
asciilifeform | (green for the colour of the prophet's banner, naturally!) | [04:21] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu has it | [04:21] |
decimation | oh, murray also co-authored 'the bell curve' | [04:22] |
decimation | which controversially asserted that jews were smarter than blacks | [04:22] |
mircea_popescu | how did the ets do ? | [04:22] |
asciilifeform | based, iirc, on longitudinal (that is, lifetime progress) study of children, esp. adopted cross-ethnically at birth | [04:22] |
asciilifeform | the conclusions of which, interestingly, none of the establishment types bothered to attack directly | [04:23] |
asciilifeform | because it was bulletproof | [04:23] |
* | gabriel_laddel *gasp* | [04:23] |
asciilifeform | instead they had to declare murry a public enemy and 'hitler' | [04:23] |
decimation | no, but they strongly 'taught the controversy' | [04:23] |
asciilifeform | aha | [04:23] |
mircea_popescu | how many children ? | [04:23] |
asciilifeform | ~13,000 | [04:25] |
asciilifeform | iirc | [04:25] |
mircea_popescu | almost respectable. | [04:25] |
mircea_popescu | i was all prepared to hear 300 and say "rubbish" | [04:26] |
asciilifeform | it wasn't rubbish. | [04:26] |
asciilifeform | that's why the solid wall of bullshit built around the subject by usg | [04:26] |
asciilifeform | almost impenetrable by the idly curious | [04:26] |
mircea_popescu | ftr, i dun actually credit the race/intelligence theory. not that i have strong feelings either way | [04:27] |
asciilifeform | visit a university library; 'bell curve' is a little brick, the 'refutations' - a book case and climbing | [04:27] |
mircea_popescu | but the whole thing strikes me like an attempt to establish a link between female beauty and hair color. | [04:27] |
decimation | one datapoint "“The NLSY, administered in 1980 to by far the largest sample (6,502 whites, 3,022 blacks) in a national study, found a difference of 1.21 standard deviations on the AFQT.”" | [04:27] |
decimation | AFQT means 'armed forces qualifying test' | [04:28] |
mircea_popescu | if iq tests worked we'd have usable software. | [04:28] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: can work without being any more than 'dismal science' | [04:28] |
asciilifeform | that tells you just how fucked you are | [04:28] |
gabriel_laddel | if iq tests worked we'd have usable software. << see symbolics inc | [04:28] |
mircea_popescu | wait wut !? | [04:28] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: as i gather, intelligence is only slightly heritable, but stupidity - is very | [04:29] |
mircea_popescu | lol. | [04:29] |
mircea_popescu | intelligence, in a strict sense of whatever, bus speed ? bus width ? ram ? cpu cycles ? frequency of parity errors ? | [04:29] |
asciilifeform | as are a thousand mental dysfunctions most of which haven't even a name | [04:29] |
asciilifeform | !s myelin sheaths | [04:29] |
mircea_popescu | is really the small part of the discussion. thiel is smart, and it doesn't help him | [04:30] |
assbot | 2 results for 'myelin sheaths' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=myelin+sheaths | [04:30] |
asciilifeform | ^ i had a physical, testable hypothesis | [04:30] |
mircea_popescu | yes. | [04:30] |
asciilifeform | check back in 10,000 years when the cockroaches replace us | [04:30] |
asciilifeform | they'll test. | [04:30] |
mircea_popescu | well... "testable" . you gotta kill people. | [04:30] |
asciilifeform | i don't expect it tested in mouse or man in own lifetime | [04:30] |
asciilifeform | 'too much fun' | [04:31] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037159 << your point actually fails under its own weight. are fractals random ? | [04:31] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 06:13:09; gabriel_laddel: my point is that science does not advance "at random" | [04:31] |
gabriel_laddel | no | [04:31] |
mircea_popescu | it advances at random to a random degree, is the thing. | [04:31] |
decimation | from the book: “In any case, you are not going to learn tomorrow that all the cognitive differences between races are 100 percent genetic in origin, because the scientific state of knowledge, unfinished as it is, already gives ample evidence that environment is part of the story. But the evidence eventually may become unequivocal that genes are also part of the story. We are worried that the elite wisdom on this issue, for years | [04:31] |
decimation | almost hysterically in denial about that possibility, will snap too far in the other direction. It is possible to face all the facts on ethnic and race differences in intelligence and not run screaming from the room: That is the essential message.” | [04:31] |
mircea_popescu | which actually means a very good quality random. | [04:31] |
mircea_popescu | decimation does it at any place say what it deems intelligence to be, this book ? | [04:32] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: no, but it does go into the subject of stupidity | [04:32] |
mircea_popescu | not a very good book eh. | [04:32] |
gabriel_laddel | http://youtu.be/xzTH_ZqaFKI?t=9m57s << neat, working software, with the foundations built by high IQ individuals | [04:32] |
assbot | LiveCoding in CommonLisp. - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNZVVP ) | [04:32] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: it's a perfectly good epidemiological work. | [04:32] |
mircea_popescu | why does it define stupidity and make statements about intelligence ? should stick to stupidity. | [04:33] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: eww opengl blackbox | [04:33] |
* | asciilifeform saw five seconds, saw enough | [04:33] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel it occurs to me the templeos guy is kinda high iq | [04:33] |
asciilifeform | see also link to classic thread re: 'cranks' coming 'untethered' | [04:34] |
asciilifeform | for good or ill | [04:34] |
gabriel_laddel | ^ | [04:34] |
asciilifeform | terry davis doesn't have to answer to a grant committee | [04:34] |
mircea_popescu | lmao wtf was this, monkey @ lisp term ?! | [04:34] |
asciilifeform | and ends up with certain things, some interesting, some not, with a heavy flavour of jizzus jizzm | [04:34] |
asciilifeform | i, in his place, would come up with something quite else | [04:35] |
asciilifeform | you - yet else | [04:35] |
asciilifeform | etc | [04:35] |
mircea_popescu | i dun see what "in his place" would mean. | [04:35] |
asciilifeform | his 'thiel fellowship' came from usg. | [04:35] |
asciilifeform | starvation pension, but enough to keep his computer lit | [04:35] |
gabriel_laddel | !s langton's ant | [04:35] |
assbot | 9 results for 'langton's ant' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=langton%27s+ant | [04:35] |
gabriel_laddel | "what is intelligence?" | [04:36] |
mircea_popescu | "like beauty, but for men" | [04:36] |
gabriel_laddel | haha yeah | [04:36] |
mircea_popescu | srsly. | [04:36] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: 'his place' - thinking man who found, by accident or otherwise, an escape hatch from arbeit macht frei | [04:36] |
mircea_popescu | i dun follow ? | [04:36] |
asciilifeform | he doesn't have to work a day job | [04:37] |
mircea_popescu | so then im in his place ? | [04:37] |
asciilifeform | aha | [04:37] |
mircea_popescu | and you aren't ? | [04:37] |
ben_vulpes | mircea_popescu: perianne. | [04:37] |
asciilifeform | nope | [04:37] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes bless you. | [04:37] |
decimation | the book has a whole chapter on the subject of defining intelligence | [04:37] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform because you HAVE to ? | [04:37] |
mircea_popescu | decimation anything good ? | [04:37] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: aha | [04:37] |
mircea_popescu | or just teachin' the controversy | [04:37] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: to keep the lights on | [04:37] |
gabriel_laddel | monkey @ lisp term ?! << outside of that, have you ever seen any program written as "fluidly"? Which comes back to the original discussion of "what is intelligence" | [04:37] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform mayhap that needs work ? | [04:37] |
decimation | but essentially ends up with the 'classical' theory, which is 'this statistical thing that tends to pop out reliably on these tests' | [04:37] |
gabriel_laddel | "why prefer incremental compilation over batch?" | [04:38] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel i dunno, i dun tend to spy on people writing code that much, i'm prolly the most ignorant in the room on that score. | [04:38] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: wai wat ? | [04:38] |
gabriel_laddel | because its prettier | [04:38] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform the "have to". if you were writing software it'd be a magic variabler. | [04:38] |
asciilifeform | iirc i described the kinds of thing i do for living.. | [04:39] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform no, that's not it. if i were in prison, would i HAVE TO be in prison to keep the lights on ? | [04:39] |
mircea_popescu | ie, would it be my job ? | [04:39] |
asciilifeform | in ru prison circa 1951 - aha, job. want to eat? dig | [04:40] |
mircea_popescu | just then ? | [04:40] |
asciilifeform | (or, if very talented, beat another fella into digging your share) | [04:40] |
asciilifeform | just then << 'peak stalin' | [04:40] |
mircea_popescu | my point being, your have to is weak. not to any personal effect, but it does ruin our theory. | [04:40] |
asciilifeform | after he croaked, that kind of thing was - at least on paper - somewhat curtailed | [04:41] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037164 << the important point here is that causes not purposes. | [04:41] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 06:14:45; gabriel_laddel: can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like? | [04:41] |
mircea_popescu | for all i care the wot world can result in the sky combusing. | [04:41] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: this is true in that, technically, i could cough up tomorrow's lottery number and play and then 'not have to' and no physical law prevents it | [04:41] |
mircea_popescu | combusting* | [04:41] |
asciilifeform | but this is not an algorithmic soluton. | [04:41] |
asciilifeform | *solution | [04:41] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform or learn to eat air. or w/e. | [04:41] |
asciilifeform | aha air | [04:41] |
asciilifeform | unbeatable taste | [04:41] |
mircea_popescu | well... maybe templeos guy did ? | [04:41] |
asciilifeform | not according to his account | [04:42] |
mircea_popescu | and he'd know. | [04:42] |
asciilifeform | he gets usg pension. | [04:42] |
mircea_popescu | because the first thing fish mentions is the water. | [04:42] |
asciilifeform | i've no reason to doubt the fact of it | [04:42] |
asciilifeform | plenty of folks do - simply that most of them don't write oddball os | [04:42] |
mircea_popescu | if facts were facts debates would be silent observances. | [04:42] |
* | Dr-G3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | [04:43] |
asciilifeform | must confess, i don't know him in person | [04:43] |
* | Dr-G3 (~Dr-G@gtng-d9bf77a0.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [04:43] |
asciilifeform | but his self-portrait isn't in any way stretching belief | [04:43] |
mircea_popescu | did i ever tell you about the naked gypsy girl ? | [04:43] |
asciilifeform | gets small pension from usg, lives alone in tiny flat, eats little | [04:44] |
asciilifeform | hm? | [04:44] |
mircea_popescu | took some ppls to see the enchanted gypsy palaces in turda (romania). which, you know, are pretty elaborate. | [04:44] |
mircea_popescu | took a wroing turn, ended up on mud street from 1750. down towards us, completely naked 9yo girl, rope tied around her waist. literally rope. | [04:45] |
mircea_popescu | everyone's aghast. | [04:45] |
mircea_popescu | but barefoot girl in the mud aside : she probably had parents, who similarly had to work to keep the lights on. | [04:45] |
mircea_popescu | in the shape of the sun, i guess. | [04:45] |
decimation | someone had to shape the mud into huts | [04:46] |
asciilifeform | unless the gurl photosynthesizes - yes, they have to, or starve. | [04:47] |
mircea_popescu | no these are literally palaces. | [04:47] |
mircea_popescu | lemme dig something up here | [04:47] |
asciilifeform | what 'work' means in the gypsy palace, i haven't any notion | [04:47] |
mircea_popescu | ;;google palate tiganesti turda | [04:47] |
gribble | Palatele tiganesti din Buzescu - YouTube: |
[04:47] |
asciilifeform | but whatever it is they do to keep the trucks coming | [04:47] |
mircea_popescu | see the pics / whatevs. | [04:47] |
decimation | at any rate, the "iq" thing seems more useful when applied on the population level | [04:47] |
asciilifeform | derivatives trading? | [04:47] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform a long array of things, all more or less coney. | [04:48] |
decimation | it might not tell you who to hire next, but it would explain why nobody in the city you are visiting has heard of plumbing | [04:48] |
asciilifeform | or why 400 years of plumbing school at gunpoint had no effect | [04:48] |
asciilifeform | decimation has it. | [04:48] |
mircea_popescu | decimation would it now ? seems more a function of where htey were born, if they heard of plumbing or not. | [04:49] |
gabriel_laddel | omfg | [04:49] |
asciilifeform | (by 'plumbing' here mean 'not shitting where you drink') | [04:49] |
decimation | aye | [04:49] |
mircea_popescu | i doubt this is inborn. | [04:49] |
decimation | wow those really are palaces | [04:49] |
mircea_popescu | yes. and you should see the insides, furs and shit. it's really very azn | [04:50] |
asciilifeform | complete with wall carpets? | [04:50] |
mircea_popescu | always good for a culture shock for usians, because somehow they think starbucks is luxury. | [04:50] |
decimation | is this what they do with all the coins they manage to scrape together? | [04:50] |
mircea_popescu | meanwhile these dudes fuck on tiger fur. | [04:50] |
mircea_popescu | decimation well, some of those were built out of begging, some out of scrap metal theft, some out of who knows what. | [04:51] |
asciilifeform | eh betcha it's been deluxurized by chinese tiger farms | [04:51] |
asciilifeform | but basic point stands | [04:51] |
mircea_popescu | anyway, i was cheating a little ( http://trilema.com/2010/nuditatea-la-copii-si-sugari/ << original article where scene above is described). it just so happens that in that culture, kids are supposed to be naked pre puberty. | [04:52] |
assbot | Nuditatea la copii si sugari pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1wC5Aqy ) | [04:52] |
asciilifeform | described in, among other places, orlov's | [04:52] |
asciilifeform | '5 stages' | [04:52] |
mircea_popescu | but point remains : what man HAS TO do is never clear. | [04:52] |
asciilifeform | (he takes a strange fixation with the gypsies) | [04:52] |
decimation | my usian upbringing causes me to conjure some dude living in a hovel or a wagon upon hearing 'gypsy' | [04:52] |
mircea_popescu | decimation in fairness, most do. these are the rare exceptions not the bulk. recall orwell's "jew makes a dollar a day" thing | [04:53] |
asciilifeform | i can picture that if mircea_popescu ever opens a jail, all of the cages will open from the inside with a 32-bit combination lock. nobody will 'have to' sit in this jail | [04:53] |
mircea_popescu | quite. | [04:54] |
asciilifeform | can always open the lock, no ? | [04:54] |
mircea_popescu | 32 bit may be a little short. | [04:54] |
mircea_popescu | ;;calc 6**27 | [04:54] |
gribble | 1023490369077469249536 | [04:54] |
asciilifeform | this, incidentally, might be a fairly good 'business model' | [04:54] |
mircea_popescu | 6 letter lock. | [04:54] |
gabriel_laddel | "let me tell you a story about a mouse I caught in a field..." | [04:54] |
asciilifeform | in that the occasional escaped maniac is outweighed by the folks who will sit for decades flipping digits | [04:55] |
mircea_popescu | incidentally : this would be a great prison. judge doesn't give you a term. judge gives you a frequency count. | [04:55] |
asciilifeform | aha | [04:55] |
mircea_popescu | you can get out once you're industrious enough. | [04:55] |
asciilifeform | i came up with this based on the more well-known 'schrodinger jail' | [04:55] |
mircea_popescu | 1:1024*2 for theft. | [04:55] |
decimation | plus the prisioners would be occupied with something, instead of scheming how to spray bodily fluids on whoever happens by the slot | [04:55] |
asciilifeform | where you get a probability spread as sentence | [04:56] |
asciilifeform | and get days off your term for playing 'russian roulette' | [04:56] |
* | shesek (~shesek@77.127.13.193) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [04:56] |
mircea_popescu | !up shesek | [04:56] |
-assbot- | You voiced shesek for 30 minutes. | [04:56] |
* | assbot gives voice to shesek | [04:56] |
asciilifeform | decimation: aha, that'd be the point | [04:56] |
mircea_popescu | lmao fucken dyslexia | [04:57] |
mircea_popescu | ;;calc 27**6 | [04:57] |
gribble | 387420489 | [04:57] |
mircea_popescu | i was thinking wtf that many ?! | [04:57] |
* | asciilifeform was thinking 'which six letters' | [04:57] |
asciilifeform | and 'why 27 of'em' | [04:57] |
decimation | another variant: all the prisoners play 'WoW' - upon gaining some princely sum of gold they can be freed | [04:58] |
asciilifeform | decimation: sop in china | [04:58] |
mircea_popescu | this is how china does it already. | [04:58] |
decimation | hehe yeah | [04:58] |
mircea_popescu | "rate jail best on ijail 5bn times, walk free!" | [04:58] |
asciilifeform | except afaik they do 'get to eat' instead of 'walk free' | [04:59] |
decimation | maybe someone should make a bitbet for the date of the appearance of an official usg 'game' | [04:59] |
mircea_popescu | how'd you specify it. | [05:00] |
asciilifeform | 'america's army' | [05:00] |
asciilifeform | or some other kind of game meant here ? | [05:00] |
mircea_popescu | wasn't it "army of one" ? | [05:00] |
asciilifeform | http://www.americasarmy.com | [05:00] |
assbot | America's Army ... ( http://bit.ly/1BO23wG ) | [05:00] |
ben_vulpes | skinned counterstrike or some such? | [05:01] |
* | mircea_popescu half expects to find some bad retailer on the other end | [05:01] |
decimation | the purpose of the game would be to 'sink' hours of the otherwise idle usg employees | [05:01] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes nah, zynga something. | [05:01] |
asciilifeform | iirc it was freeware | [05:01] |
mircea_popescu | "america's army products community" yep right on. | [05:01] |
asciilifeform | 3d 'shooter' where you had to 'pass bootcamp', dig pits, die in ten minutes of firefight dropping like potato, etc | [05:02] |
asciilifeform | 'realism' | [05:02] |
asciilifeform | was commissioned as a recruiting gimmick | [05:02] |
mircea_popescu | "About Rin I’m Cathe(rin)e Ray." not bad. | [05:03] |
asciilifeform | http://store.steampowered.com/app/203290 | [05:03] |
assbot | America's Army: Proving Grounds Beta on Steam ... ( http://bit.ly/1wC7PtG ) | [05:03] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel i sent her an email. iron a shirt in case shows up. | [05:04] |
mircea_popescu | http://www.thielfellowship.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/fellowship-banners_about-1280x460.jpg << is it me or it's mostly guys and mostly white ? | [05:05] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1BO2uY7 ) | [05:05] |
gabriel_laddel | Not just you. | [05:06] |
gabriel_laddel | Also, lots of asian males. | [05:06] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: these are the only folks for whom there isn't already $maxint in handouts | [05:06] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel azn as in indian, but not chinese. | [05:07] |
gabriel_laddel | nah, some Chinese, Vietnamese too | [05:07] |
gabriel_laddel | but yes, there are a lot of indians, which I didn't previously notice | [05:08] |
mircea_popescu | and blondy in black dress over there's almost hawt. | [05:08] |
mircea_popescu | well... good for em. | [05:08] |
gabriel_laddel | (these being from the previous generations) | [05:08] |
mircea_popescu | "Alum and current fellows have produced more than $100 million in economic activity including investments, exits, revenue, and grants. " | [05:09] |
mircea_popescu | uh. | [05:09] |
gabriel_laddel | I, with the devil's own smile, invite them to take pictures | [05:09] |
mircea_popescu | "Fifty-eight organizations and startups have been founded by fellows, employing over 200 people, and creating new technologies that are being deployed around the world." | [05:09] |
gabriel_laddel | "If we show up at the border with That We're going straight to prison!" | [05:09] |
gabriel_laddel | ahahahaha | [05:09] |
mircea_popescu | wait, there's 40 people a year right ? | [05:09] |
gabriel_laddel | (From MPs gypsy girl story) | [05:09] |
mircea_popescu | so basically they employ themselves ? | [05:09] |
gabriel_laddel | yeah | [05:09] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel truth. | [05:10] |
gabriel_laddel | most of the companies are just pathetic in practice | [05:10] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: the u.s. military technical term for this is 'self-licking icecream cone' | [05:10] |
asciilifeform | !s self-licking | [05:10] |
gabriel_laddel | the neat people in the Thiel fellowship are the mathematics kids, who are sort of the odd ones out | [05:10] |
assbot | 10 results for 'self-licking' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=self-licking | [05:10] |
* | mircea_popescu was a recipient of something vaguely similar at a similar age. | [05:11] |
mircea_popescu | it doesn't do much. | [05:11] |
asciilifeform | because it's a temporary parole, for one thing | [05:11] |
asciilifeform | if someone sent me 100k (magically, tax-free) i'd do... what? take 3 mo. off, spend the next 9 looking for next gig ? | [05:12] |
gabriel_laddel | 2 years to play with Mathematics sounds wonderfully useful to me. | [05:12] |
decimation | you could ration it slowly if you lived in rural kansas | [05:12] |
mircea_popescu | ah, i a) didn't actually need the money ; b) wasn't really about the money per se anyway | [05:12] |
gabriel_laddel | well, in truth the Thiel fellowship doesn't even give it all away at once | [05:13] |
gabriel_laddel | which is fucking stupid | [05:13] |
mircea_popescu | no, it's not. | [05:13] |
gabriel_laddel | they want them to play nicely with the world | [05:13] |
gabriel_laddel | fuck that | [05:13] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: play nicely ? | [05:13] |
mircea_popescu | best way to get a bright kid killed is by giving him ten bricks of benjamins. | [05:13] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: what, he buys bazooka ? | [05:13] |
asciilifeform | what if getting killed with honour is precisely what he wanted and needed | [05:13] |
gabriel_laddel | asciilifeform: they don't want them to e.g., make a napster | [05:14] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: wai wut | [05:14] |
asciilifeform | i thought that was the point | [05:14] |
gabriel_laddel | they dole it out a month at a time | [05:14] |
asciilifeform | make something thiel-flavoured | [05:14] |
gabriel_laddel | and check up on you | [05:14] |
asciilifeform | aha so kommisars. | [05:14] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform kids. they'll find something to do. | [05:14] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: i didn't think the thiel thing could get -more- snoreworthy | [05:14] |
asciilifeform | but evidently i was wrong! | [05:14] |
gabriel_laddel | hehe | [05:14] |
mircea_popescu | omg you buncha antisocial haters. you can't have a mentor or anything ? | [05:15] |
gabriel_laddel | it seems to me the model is to find smart, angry people, fund them and then when things go to shit, stand behind them and keep them out of trouble. | [05:15] |
mircea_popescu | da fuck are some kids gonna suffer from talking to adults ? | [05:15] |
gabriel_laddel | but I don't know anything | [05:15] |
decimation | what's wrong with enslaving yourself to someone better? | [05:15] |
asciilifeform | decimation: nothing - it's called army | [05:15] |
asciilifeform | if they dole it out month at a time - it's a fucking -job- | [05:16] |
gabriel_laddel | the 'adults' are not going to be happy about you writing a program that converts all books in libgen.info + all papers you can get of school networks into a useful format via a combination of OCR and heuristic hackery | [05:17] |
gabriel_laddel | which would actually be useful | [05:17] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform it's called an annuity! | [05:17] |
mircea_popescu | which is the better way to get a windfall anyway. | [05:17] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: it's a job if you gotta do xxxxx to keep'em coming | [05:17] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel how do you know this, sight unseen ? | [05:17] |
asciilifeform | and avoid doing yyyyy | [05:17] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform how do you know this ? | [05:18] |
asciilifeform | only from gabriel_laddel's summary thus far | [05:18] |
ben_vulpes | [05:18] | |
gabriel_laddel | mircea_popescu: know what in particular? | [05:18] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel thgat the adults are not going ot be happy. | [05:19] |
gabriel_laddel | Oh, I've teh insider information | [05:19] |
mircea_popescu | ah. | [05:19] |
asciilifeform | i for one would like to know if any thiel folks have been 'fired' | [05:19] |
mircea_popescu | you know blondy, too ? | [05:19] |
asciilifeform | and if so, for what. | [05:19] |
asciilifeform | i bet they're NDA'd etc. but if you turn the screws, can probably find out. | [05:20] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform not a bad approach. | [05:20] |
gabriel_laddel | ^ I know of one in particular... | [05:20] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes both genders ? | [05:21] |
gabriel_laddel | He presented someone else's program as his own. They didn't check, being fuckwits, but eventually found out. | [05:21] |
ben_vulpes | mircea_popescu: everyone. | [05:21] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: i bet you could toss 19 out of 20 of'em for this | [05:21] |
ben_vulpes | portland's a moderately kinky town. | [05:21] |
mircea_popescu | gabriel_laddel why the fuck would he do that. | [05:21] |
asciilifeform | almost invariably 'high powered' kids in usa are simply cribbing mindlessly | [05:21] |
asciilifeform | ask a college prof | [05:21] |
gabriel_laddel | being a poorfag | [05:21] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes seems harmless enough. | [05:21] |
ben_vulpes | mircea_popescu: sets the tone, you know? | [05:22] |
* | decimation to bed | [05:22] |
decimation | !down decimation | [05:22] |
* | assbot has kicked decimation from #bitcoin-assets (Bye.) | [05:22] |
ben_vulpes | [05:22] | |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes at least his harem isn't 40k a month! | [05:23] |
mircea_popescu | and what IS burning man but fuck club ? | [05:23] |
asciilifeform | did i ever tell the tale of how i was once about to do a little consulting for an engineering prof, and discovered that the code that implemented 'his' algo was plagiarized wholesale by his students? | [05:23] |
asciilifeform | and that the same happened again after he fired the first set and replaced entire staff ? | [05:23] |
asciilifeform | cribbed from public domain libs, quite unrelated to the actual project, passed off as 'new' | [05:24] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform you didn't end up beaten as a result of this ? | [05:24] |
* | mircea_popescu pictures kramer @ karate class. | [05:24] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: i had to refuse the client | [05:24] |
asciilifeform | which was painful because he was a family friend and a man i respected | [05:24] |
ben_vulpes | mircea_popescu: is that *your* harem's burn rate? | [05:24] |
asciilifeform | but he tried to convince me to participate in a sc4m4tr0n | [05:24] |
asciilifeform | knew about the 'little problem' and said nothing when commissioning the work | [05:25] |
asciilifeform | thought i wouldn't find out. | [05:25] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes nah merely reference to a discussion in logs a few days ago | [05:25] |
ben_vulpes | !s 40k | [05:25] |
assbot | 93 results for '40k' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=40k | [05:25] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform btw, what's the objection to macarthur prizes ? | [05:25] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: no objection as such, aside from 'gimme' | [05:26] |
mircea_popescu | 125k a year for five years, beats thiel, but anyway | [05:26] |
mircea_popescu | ah | [05:26] |
asciilifeform | just that none of the folks involved, afaik, coughed up anything i'd miss if it were thermonuked | [05:26] |
asciilifeform | all summed to zero. | [05:26] |
mircea_popescu | imo it's pretty well designed. | [05:26] |
* | assbot removes voice from shesek | [05:26] |
asciilifeform | designed to what ? | [05:26] |
mircea_popescu | wolfram guy got it, didn't he ? | [05:27] |
asciilifeform | iirc he was already rich from scamming | [05:27] |
* | NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:cdbd:393e:aeae:591) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [05:27] |
asciilifeform | that is, cribbed 'macsyma' and passed off as own work | [05:27] |
* | asciilifeform doesn't like sc4mz0rz | [05:27] |
mircea_popescu | anyway, for 500k, enough respectable names there. | [05:28] |
asciilifeform | yes but how many respectable -after- the prize and not before | [05:28] |
asciilifeform | as in, not at all before | [05:28] |
asciilifeform | street urchin | [05:28] |
mircea_popescu | more than half. | [05:29] |
mircea_popescu | Klainerman << fine example. | [05:30] |
asciilifeform | did he need it ? | [05:30] |
asciilifeform | or would've been golden with or without | [05:30] |
mircea_popescu | romanian immigrant post revolution | [05:30] |
mircea_popescu | whadda ya think ? | [05:30] |
asciilifeform | hm. | [05:31] |
ben_vulpes | [05:31] | |
* | asciilifeform not insisting it had a 0% coefficient of useful work | [05:31] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: when do i get to die in a tank | [05:31] |
asciilifeform | and can it be a t-34 | [05:31] |
mircea_popescu | Norman Manea << another fine example. | [05:31] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: iirc the way it worked (works? i think, still exists?) is via a kind of secret wot | [05:32] |
asciilifeform | which means that these folks weren't total islands | [05:33] |
mircea_popescu | o look daniela rus too | [05:33] |
mircea_popescu | no srsly, it's 3/3 so far. | [05:33] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform yup. which is why i had a vague positive idea about it. never bothered looking. | [05:33] |
mircea_popescu | but now that i did look, it seems clearly that the thing works. | [05:33] |
ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: this is not the war you grew up idolizing. it's war, which means it's going to be horrible and unpleasant for all involved. | [05:33] |
asciilifeform | it has same problem as the aids test | [05:33] |
mircea_popescu | MUCH better than the buffett out. "i leave my money to bil lgates" | [05:33] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: it's got death, no ? | [05:34] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: 'sexy' or not | [05:34] |
ben_vulpes | so you claim. | [05:34] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes btw, daniela rus should be right up your alley. | [05:34] |
mircea_popescu | self reconfigurin robots etc | [05:34] |
asciilifeform | same problem as aids test meaning here, that i'm much more interested in the folks left bugling in the dark | [05:34] |
asciilifeform | and i use extant academia as an antiwot | [05:34] |
asciilifeform | i.e. if you can get printed there, you're suspect | [05:35] |
asciilifeform | (at the very minimum - of being a snore) | [05:35] |
ben_vulpes | mircea_popescu: i'm actually pretty disgusted with "modern" "robotics" | [05:35] |
asciilifeform | ^ | [05:35] |
gabriel_laddel | ^^ | [05:35] |
ben_vulpes | a) it's all usg "tin woman" crap | [05:35] |
mircea_popescu | mebbe look into this one ? | [05:36] |
ben_vulpes | i'll *keep* looking | [05:36] |
ben_vulpes | cursory inspection reveals nothing interesting. | [05:36] |
asciilifeform | wake me up when a roboticists asks me for the waveguide motor | [05:36] |
ben_vulpes | i'm more interested in underactuated systems. | [05:36] |
ben_vulpes | map servers and massively parallel SLAM | [05:36] |
asciilifeform | y'know, the one where you can have arbitrary jointless articulation without precision parts, lubrication, or freely moving parts at all | [05:37] |
asciilifeform | for the cost of a length of copper cable. | [05:37] |
mircea_popescu | afaik the woman's idea was "hey, what if we made robots capable of altering their own geometry, that way they won't have to be pre-programmed" | [05:37] |
mircea_popescu | which is a golden thought. | [05:37] |
asciilifeform | when somebody so much as asks, i'll believe there's life in 'robotics'; | [05:37] |
ben_vulpes | you still have to program the meta layer. | [05:37] |
asciilifeform | until then it's makework | [05:37] |
asciilifeform | and cargokultism | [05:37] |
asciilifeform | (yes i can buy a 4-axis arm from fujitsu, and it'll do same thing as in 1969, whoopie) | [05:38] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes or make more of them | [05:38] |
gabriel_laddel | ^ ascii, I've mentioned this idea to 3 people - all reject it on grounds of "it can't be that easy, my school had all sorts people working on these problems and they never thought of it" | [05:38] |
gabriel_laddel | none took the time to test it out | [05:38] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: doing any of it with mechanical articulation is a sad joke | [05:38] |
ben_vulpes | especially and in particular the underwater stuff. | [05:39] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform i think what was being contemplated was more akin to a synthetic amoeba than a mechanical sheep. | [05:39] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: afaik the only place the required - non-negotiably - tech exists - is in my skullcase. | [05:39] |
* | asciilifeform did look | [05:39] |
mircea_popescu | so how would they ask ? | [05:40] |
asciilifeform | because i spilled it here, for one thing | [05:40] |
mircea_popescu | may take a decade. | [05:40] |
ben_vulpes | as a guy who's cobbled together the odd machine or two, the notion that you can have a million little bits cooperating to give you the power of a purpose-designed driveshaft one moment and slither through a keyhole the next strikes me as wankery of the first degree. | [05:40] |
asciilifeform | for another, spilled to various folks in periphery of academwot | [05:40] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes well, "cooperating". | [05:40] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: what's your finger made of ? | [05:40] |
ben_vulpes | purpose built mechanisms. | [05:40] |
mircea_popescu | "if you're willing to pay for ten million of these, i can prove to you that in any conceivable situation no less than 3 will be useful to your purpose" | [05:41] |
ben_vulpes | several joints, some tension mechanisms and some springs. | [05:41] |
mircea_popescu | and good math to show it, too | [05:41] |
ben_vulpes | grey goo pipe dreams. | [05:41] |
mircea_popescu | anyway, this is a great convo but bed's better, so! tomorrow. | [05:41] |
* | Now talking on #bitcoin-assets | [15:23] |
* | Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com | [15:23] |
* | Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 | [15:23] |
-assbot- | Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. | [15:23] |
* | assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu | [15:24] |
thestringpuller | good afternoon mr. popescu | [15:24] |
mircea_popescu | hey | [15:24] |
thestringpuller | how are you? | [15:24] |
mircea_popescu | not bad. | [15:24] |
asciilifeform | http://www.laverdad.es/gente-estilo/201502/16/detienen-mujer-masturbarse-cine-20150216133322.html | [15:27] |
assbot | Detienen a una mujer por masturbarse en el cine con 50 sombras de Grey . La Verdad ... ( http://bit.ly/1zvBgOt ) | [15:27] |
mircea_popescu | pr piece. | [15:28] |
asciilifeform | ^ was my guess | [15:28] |
mircea_popescu | so fucking transparent by now. you seen the buzzfeed "great idea" ? | [15:28] |
asciilifeform | surprising that this isn't a more common tack for these | [15:28] |
asciilifeform | "great idea" << nope | [15:29] |
mircea_popescu | they created permanent sessions for users, showed some a dress like so, others a dress like something else | [15:29] |
mircea_popescu | then idiot usians had debates about the true dress and the biological causes of not seeing it right | [15:29] |
mircea_popescu | because they're, by now, this fucking stupid. | [15:30] |
mircea_popescu | i could scarcely conceive of an experiment to more convincingly verify the "our audience is entirely worthless" theory. it's verified alright. | [15:30] |
asciilifeform | wai wat | [15:30] |
mircea_popescu | http://www.europapress.es/desconecta/curiosity/noticia-explicacion-vestido-cambia-color-genera-mas-27-millones-visitas-20150227184200.html | [15:31] |
assbot | The Dress: La explicación del vestido que cambia de color genera más de 27 millones de visitas | [15:31] |
mircea_popescu | there, to keep to the es theme. | [15:31] |
* | AdrianoOliveira has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | [15:33] |
* | CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) | [15:33] |
mircea_popescu | !up lrak | [15:34] |
-assbot- | You voiced lrak for 30 minutes. | [15:34] |
* | assbot gives voice to lrak | [15:34] |
mircea_popescu | !up mogreen | [15:34] |
-assbot- | You voiced mogreen for 30 minutes. | [15:34] |
* | assbot gives voice to mogreen | [15:34] |
mircea_popescu | !up nijotz | [15:34] |
-assbot- | You voiced nijotz for 30 minutes. | [15:34] |
* | assbot gives voice to nijotz | [15:34] |
mircea_popescu | !up so | [15:35] |
-assbot- | You voiced so for 30 minutes. | [15:35] |
* | assbot gives voice to so | [15:35] |
mircea_popescu | !up Stellarflip | [15:35] |
-assbot- | You voiced Stellarflip for 30 minutes. | [15:35] |
* | assbot gives voice to Stellarflip | [15:35] |
mircea_popescu | !up tsoulus | [15:35] |
-assbot- | You voiced tsoulus for 30 minutes. | [15:35] |
* | assbot gives voice to tsoulus | [15:35] |
mircea_popescu | !up yrashk | [15:35] |
-assbot- | You voiced yrashk for 30 minutes. | [15:35] |
* | assbot gives voice to yrashk | [15:35] |
mircea_popescu | ;;later tell gabriel_laddel argentina has a fixation on electing newspaper men. mitre, frondizi, etc. | [15:38] |
gribble | The operation succeeded. | [15:38] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.0003877 = 10.7781 BTC [-] {2} | [15:41] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037936 << i played it maybe two years ago, was a decent diablo clone. | [15:41] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 16:09:30; punkman: weird economy | [15:41] |
punkman | the crafting's kinda fun | [15:41] |
* | copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [15:41] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037942 << i found one before too! your bot's like broken. | [15:43] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 17:03:26; BingoBoingo: Ah jurov you found that oglaf before the bot could | [15:43] |
BingoBoingo | !s from: oglafbot | [15:44] |
assbot | 0 results for 'from: oglafbot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3A+oglafbot | [15:44] |
* | CheckDavid (uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvcdfivbkidwugas) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [15:44] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-03-2015#1036688 | [15:44] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 01:32:37; mircea_popescu: @ BingoBoingo : http://oglaf.com/rally/ | [15:44] |
* | jordandotdev (uid7502@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-narqaqvrwoovfbij) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [15:48] |
kakobrekla | BingoBoingo i think you need to cut the space there | [15:49] |
BingoBoingo | !s from:oglafbot | [15:49] |
assbot | 28 results for 'from:oglafbot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aoglafbot | [15:49] |
BingoBoingo | ty kakobrekla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-02-2015#1029530 | [15:49] |
assbot | Logged on 23-02-2015 00:47:56; oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/rally/ | [15:49] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65247 @ 0.00038578 = 25.171 BTC [-] | [15:51] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34350 @ 0.0003848 = 13.2179 BTC [-] {3} | [16:01] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037950 << it's just "poor kids in college". roughly speaking salmon to the bear. | [16:01] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 17:48:00; thestringpuller: probably not your cup of tea because it is an implementation of "communitas" or rather an existential communitas as Victor Turner explains. | [16:01] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037958 i don't even want to get into a discussion of how barbarously stupid they are. | [16:02] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 18:10:24; punkman: totally gonna work "With a clear deadline, get everyone on board to reach a voted decision and say good bye to all the bikeshedding." | [16:02] |
mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037971 << "i have an idea... let's pay isis people to tweet anti-isis messages instead of beheading our guys. a) it worked for the idiot usians and b) it's easier to do, right ? which is what the consumers have come to expect" | [16:04] |
assbot | Logged on 01-03-2015 18:18:36; punkman: ""We're getting beaten on volume, so the only way to compete is by aggregating, curating and amplifying existing content," Richard Stengel, under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs" | [16:04] |
mircea_popescu | this is pretty much the entire story of the us : let's pay everyone pretend money so they pretend we're important enough to invent money. | [16:05] |
* | assbot removes voice from lrak | [16:05] |
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mircea_popescu | approximately the life plan of a sexually worthless, narcissistically superlative 15 yo priss. | [16:05] |
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thestringpuller | mircea_popescu: "pay everyone pretend money" << reminds me of http://americandad.wikia.com/wiki/Red_October_Sky from american dad | [16:12] |
thestringpuller | "When Francine tells Stan she wishes he hadn't spent all their savings, he says he needed to spend money to make money. Francine then says that Stan didn't make any money, which Stan says implies that he didn't spend any money either" | [16:13] |
mircea_popescu | o.O | [16:15] |
mircea_popescu | what's this, the simpsons theatrical release ? | [16:15] |
thestringpuller | nah it's seth mcfarlane trolling amercians cause they're too dumb to realize what's really going on | [16:16] |
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BingoBoingo | mircea_popescu: It's a spin off of a spin off of a spin off, because when people develop a taste for a particular shit, why not enlist more orfices to produce it | [16:29] |
mircea_popescu | mhm | [16:30] |
mircea_popescu | for the record, i just started writing a solution to that harry potter thing. | [16:30] |
asciilifeform | solution? | [16:30] |
mircea_popescu | i never read the damned books, but the challenge is interesting. | [16:30] |
mircea_popescu | should be done in an hour. | [16:30] |
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BingoBoingo | http://hpmor.com/chapter/4 << Monetary system | [16:42] |
assbot | Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 4: The Efficient Market Hypothesis ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI0nsQ ) | [16:42] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104700 @ 0.00038341 = 40.143 BTC [-] | [16:43] |
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mircea_popescu | . | [16:51] |
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mircea_popescu | jurov http://trilema.com/2015/the-harry-potter-challenge/ | [16:56] |
assbot | The Harry Potter challenge pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI3CjT ) | [16:56] |
jurov | orly | [16:59] |
mircea_popescu | yeh. | [17:00] |
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jurov | it's good. But not clear if voldemort going completely insane implies "allow Harry to evade immediate death" | [17:02] |
mircea_popescu | he crushed the situation. | [17:02] |
mircea_popescu | it never happened. | [17:02] |
mircea_popescu | anyway, some comments in the general, for the aspiring writer : a) the most important weapon in the quiver of the scammer, which is what all fiction is, is misdirection. you were being misdirected into thinking harry potter should have agency by all the insistence on how he doesn't. (look up chekov's gun, while at it). the correct solution of a problem of agency is to attack the agent. | [17:04] |
mircea_popescu | which is why it took me twenny minutes. | [17:04] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: related field - stage magic | [17:05] |
mircea_popescu | b) agency means growth. you can recast any actual situation into something that's a personal experience, and vice-versa. this is a major power. | [17:05] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform quite. | [17:05] |
asciilifeform | unrelated, and for aficionados only: re: the old 'integrated circuits by hand' thread: http://www.155la3.ru/k240.htm | [17:05] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dr4wYQ ) | [17:05] |
mircea_popescu | voldemort jacking off by himself to visions of a destroyed enemy is not unlike harry potter "studying magic really hard". | [17:05] |
asciilifeform | pictured device is a half-adder | [17:06] |
asciilifeform | when i was a boy, these were being sold, laid on carpets in the town market, right next to rabbits and dogs | [17:07] |
mircea_popescu | i saw that kinda flea market | [17:08] |
asciilifeform | for some reason the theft of several examples of these curios by usg from sunken submarine is still considered a deep secret in usa | [17:08] |
asciilifeform | (ru sub, howard hughes and his record-breaking salvage boat, famous project) | [17:09] |
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asciilifeform | if one were to read the data sheet (scan, http://www.155la3.ru/datafiles/2lb402_tu_1975.pdf ) will find that it had around 50-60 nSec propagation delay. which is pretty good for the period | [17:11] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI7oK4 ) | [17:11] |
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asciilifeform | i should like to learn how these were assembled. | [17:12] |
asciilifeform | one can safely guess that it was pants-creamingly cheap | [17:13] |
asciilifeform | compared to american ic of the modern type, of that period | [17:13] |
asciilifeform | also notice the em cage around the package. | [17:13] |
asciilifeform | correction: first device pictured is a timer. second - half adder | [17:14] |
asciilifeform | or rather, eight half-adders | [17:14] |
thestringpuller | Full adders are cooler than half adders | [17:15] |
thestringpuller | need dat carry bit all day erryday negro | [17:15] |
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asciilifeform | the timer appears, on cursory reading, to be a clone of the universally known '555' | [17:16] |
asciilifeform | but contains six of'em | [17:16] |
asciilifeform | anyway, posted here solely for the photos of 'what if we just had very small transistors and planted them down on very fine pcb' | [17:17] |
asciilifeform | discussed in last week's thread. | [17:17] |
thestringpuller | asciilifeform: you don't like IC's? | [17:18] |
asciilifeform | thestringpuller: thread was re: whether and how one could build a reasonable computer without access to ic fab or the output of one | [17:19] |
asciilifeform | that is to say, with the ability to arrange arbitrary logical elements | [17:19] |
thestringpuller | ah yes. log reference or search keyword? | [17:19] |
thestringpuller | i have pondered the same thing myself | [17:20] |
asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-02-2015#1022401 | [17:20] |
assbot | Logged on 17-02-2015 18:03:08; asciilifeform: it does no good to take extant ic fab practice and work 'down' | [17:20] |
asciilifeform | (thread above and below link) | [17:20] |
thestringpuller | I do wonder if we'll ever be able to print IC's without being millionaires or wholesalers. | [17:21] |
thestringpuller | wholesellers* | [17:21] |
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asciilifeform | thestringpuller: if interested in this subject, read - at least that - thread | [17:22] |
mircea_popescu | jurov what is this anyway ? i thought some woman wrote harry potter ? | [17:26] |
mircea_popescu | who's yakudskty | [17:26] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26323 @ 0.00040124 = 10.5618 BTC [+] | [17:26] |
jurov | !s eliezer | [17:26] |
assbot | 4 results for 'eliezer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=eliezer | [17:26] |
asciilifeform | !s yudkowsky | [17:27] |
assbot | 18 results for 'yudkowsky' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=yudkowsky | [17:27] |
jurov | and yes, j.k. rowling aoriginally wrote it | [17:27] |
asciilifeform | we did yudkowsky here at least five times, iirc | [17:27] |
jurov | but herr yudkowsky was apparently upset at harry's stupidity and wrote a fanfic | [17:27] |
mircea_popescu | i dun get it. | [17:27] |
mircea_popescu | oh oh i c. | [17:27] |
asciilifeform | jurov: nope. he wrote it as a propaganda device for his cult | [17:28] |
asciilifeform | and it works | [17:28] |
jurov | ah, that too | [17:28] |
mircea_popescu | so ima have two things out of this. first an arguent with alf, then once laddel and the rest of the proponents of "intelligence" wake up, ima have one with them. | [17:28] |
thestringpuller | asciilifeform: re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1022584 << So what is the "value" of interns? | [17:28] |
mircea_popescu | so asciilifeform, do you see how the situation here maps exactly on the uncle al and the magical molecule situation ? | [17:28] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: i read the foibles of al slightly differently. more as a failure to intellectually detach from usg | [17:29] |
asciilifeform | because, in his mind, there is no place to go | [17:29] |
mircea_popescu | but have i just forked "the world" ? | [17:29] |
mircea_popescu | i have no guarantee that this goes into the... canon, or w/e, fanon-type-45345 | [17:29] |
asciilifeform | the way al saw his situation, there are precisely two choices for him - usg and its apparatchiks, and the world of unfiltered and unfundable idiot alchemists, astrologers, 'phree energy' imbeciles, and other usenet denizens which he spent all of the '90s recreationally hunting for sport | [17:30] |
mircea_popescu | right. and here the same : paste your text as a "review", or publish it on your blog. | [17:31] |
asciilifeform | these figures living, as they do, in 'forked worlds' | [17:31] |
mircea_popescu | like you know, all the other blogs. | [17:31] |
mircea_popescu | except... not. | [17:31] |
mircea_popescu | why not ? | [17:31] |
asciilifeform | he did publish on his www | [17:31] |
mircea_popescu | in this perspective, al's lament reduces to tim sweeney's lament. "oh woe that not being in the wot my ideas hold no value" | [17:31] |
asciilifeform | the thing's been there since mid '90s | [17:31] |
mircea_popescu | well... stfu and get in the wot. nobody, NOBODY is above the intern work for a year. | [17:31] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform this is not how this works. | [17:32] |
mircea_popescu | the equivalent of "story published on blog" is "50k calorimetry assay" | [17:32] |
mircea_popescu | not "also published on blog" | [17:32] |
asciilifeform | he wants to be in the wot of the folks with the machine | [17:32] |
asciilifeform | the bloody machine | [17:32] |
asciilifeform | not ours. | [17:32] |
mircea_popescu | fuck him. it's not about what he wants. | [17:32] |
mircea_popescu | he does not want, he does. | [17:32] |
mircea_popescu | this is the cornerstone. | [17:32] |
mircea_popescu | people have to fucking realise, for once in their life, that a_) fuck them and b) it's not about what they want. | [17:32] |
asciilifeform | incidentally, upon rereading last night's log, i must publish a correction | [17:33] |
asciilifeform | i did emphatically did -not- invent or design the calorimetric test | [17:33] |
asciilifeform | but rather the feedstock for the spectroscopic test. | [17:33] |
asciilifeform | of similar difficulty and expense | [17:33] |
mircea_popescu | aha | [17:33] |
mircea_popescu | but back to the story : if your call on the y fellow is correct, he makes for an absoluely perfect model of "chemistry usg". | [17:35] |
asciilifeform | idea being, 'me: if gravity has chiral component, consider two propellers glued back to back as 'barbell'. ought to rotate in a particular direction depending on orientation. align using electromagnetic means, infer angular momenta' al: 'here's how' | [17:35] |
asciilifeform | *molecular 'propellers' that is | [17:35] |
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asciilifeform | not, of course, macroscopic ones | [17:35] |
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asciilifeform | 'barbell' rotates if propellers face in same dir | [17:36] |
chetty | http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530102.600-google-wants-to-rank-websites-based-on-facts-not-links.html#.VPN2taxx0xD | [17:36] |
assbot | Google wants to rank websites based on facts not links - 28 February 2015 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1DrcfGl ) | [17:36] |
asciilifeform | but if not - bond strain increases - which you can also measure | [17:36] |
asciilifeform | chetty: based on phacts | [17:36] |
mircea_popescu | chetty this has been going on for a while actually. | [17:36] |
thestringpuller | asciilifeform: re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1022638 | [17:37] |
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thestringpuller | ^- didn't he end up eating green eggs and ham at the end of the book? | [17:37] |
asciilifeform | thestringpuller: http://www-psych.nmsu.edu/~linda/greeneggs/gepage1.htm | [17:38] |
asciilifeform | ^ l33t w4r3z | [17:38] |
asciilifeform | and, spoiler: sure he did | [17:38] |
chetty | [17:38] | |
mircea_popescu | hehe | [17:39] |
mircea_popescu | but seriously, wikipedia is returned because "fact:wikipedia is what we promote" rather than any "algorithmics" | [17:39] |
mircea_popescu | and so are plenty of other things. the guardian and washpo and the rest of the buzzfeed carrion crawlers aren't up there because they favorably compete with qntra on some sort of machine basis | [17:39] |
mircea_popescu | they're just "facts". | [17:40] |
mircea_popescu | and once i get my hands around their throats, the "facts" will be slightly divers. | [17:40] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.BBET] 25000 @ 0.000065 = 1.625 BTC [-] | [17:51] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: http://portal.tpu.ru/files/departments/publish/VK_AkylovBaydakovVasiliev.pdf << even if you don't know ru, you may find this interesting for the diagrams. use and engineering manual to famous ru 'igla' ('needle') rocket. | [17:52] |
mircea_popescu | in other news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak-wzUv_FvY | [17:52] |
assbot | Physical Examination of the Vulva, Vagina and Cervix in the Mare - Towcester Equine Clinic - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Drgyl5 ) | [17:52] |
asciilifeform | afaik no analogous american document exists in open literature | [17:52] |
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cazalla | punkman: re: path of exile, i like that the economy is based around orbs (at least it was when i was playing) but i quit after my hardcore char died in lower 90s | [17:56] |
cazalla | for anyone that has not played it, orbs act a little similar to soj economy, but unlike d2, poe did away with gold drops and crap like that, pure barter system | [17:57] |
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thestringpuller | the soj economy was rigged! | [18:00] |
thestringpuller | cazalla: was a dooper | [18:00] |
thestringpuller | !!!!! | [18:00] |
thestringpuller | jkjk | [18:00] |
thestringpuller | but srsly soj economy was so annoying. the rune economy was a bit better | [18:01] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00040124 = 1.0031 BTC [+] | [18:02] |
cazalla | i didn't play much lod which from memory brought runes | [18:02] |
cazalla | i tried to sell orbs for btc in poe 2 years ago but noone had heard of bitcoin except 1 guy | [18:02] |
thestringpuller | baal runs made it easy to get that XP | [18:04] |
thestringpuller | just sit in corner level up | [18:04] |
thestringpuller | then go magic find on meph runs | [18:04] |
thestringpuller | LoD was dope | [18:04] |
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cazalla | thestringpuller, poe map runs > baal runs | [18:08] |
cazalla | it's one thing they did really well but i think poe made it more noob friendly | [18:08] |
thestringpuller | D2 was kinda like crack. You played it, didn't know why, and before you knew it you were hooked. | [18:08] |
cazalla | problem with playing D2 from australia was that you could still only get dialup and it was better to play on a fake battle.net hosted at your isp | [18:10] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32500 @ 0.00039199 = 12.7397 BTC [-] | [18:15] |
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mircea_popescu | "Background for non-transhumanists: | [18:28] |
mircea_popescu | Transhumanists are not fond of death. We would stop it if we could. To this end we support research that holds out hope of a future in which humanity has defeated death. Death is an extremely difficult technical problem, to be attacked with biotech and nanotech and other technological means. I do not tell a tale of the land called Future, nor state as a fact that humanity will someday be free of death - I have no magic | [18:28] |
mircea_popescu | al ability to see through time. But death is a great evil, and I will oppose it whenever I can. If I could create a world where people lived forever, or at the very least a few billion years, I would do so." | [18:28] |
mircea_popescu | lmao this fucktard. | [18:28] |
mircea_popescu | why are all these driven nuts so mentally simple anyway ? | [18:28] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: it's bait | [18:29] |
asciilifeform | he's no imbecile, but cynical bastard who knows exactly what he's doing | [18:29] |
mircea_popescu | if it is or if it isn't... | [18:29] |
asciilifeform | ancient device of immortality 'jam tomorrow' promise | [18:29] |
asciilifeform | reworked for homo redditicus | [18:29] |
mircea_popescu | so he's another modlbug. what difference does it make ? still simple. | [18:29] |
asciilifeform | simple bait, works. | [18:30] |
mircea_popescu | besides the point., | [18:30] |
mircea_popescu | "why are you spending your time with cockroaches ?" "i kill them" "yes. but you're still spending time with them." | [18:30] |
asciilifeform | ^ life of programmers | [18:30] |
mircea_popescu | imagine the horror of this. "i invented a machine which lets you live on for a billion years, so you can write stupid shit so that stupid people keep on powering it" | [18:31] |
mircea_popescu | said every literary hack ever. | [18:31] |
mircea_popescu | anyway. if there's anyone who actually had the patience ot read all this stuff and wishes to proffer a summary please do. | [18:32] |
asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-11-2014#927657 | [18:33] |
assbot | Logged on 18-11-2014 15:38:39; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu with regard to the 'abuse of statistical devices' outlined in note iii, the accomplished master of the art is a fellow named yudkowsky (search #b-a log). he isn't an idiot, bastard knows exactly what he's doing, and his cult is a veritable vacuum trap for thinking folks | [18:33] |
mircea_popescu | i see the guy's been pouring out a coupla million words, which is more than moldbug, but i won't be bothering to actually read the shit, it's too stale. | [18:33] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform aha. | [18:33] |
thestringpuller | CLOUD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk << at least I'm not him | [18:42] |
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ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: "igla" << why must you torture me | [18:47] |
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ben_vulpes | there's no reason why these things should cost $MAXINT, aside from the prohibition on owning the constituent materials for any not favorite son. | [18:50] |
ben_vulpes | ugh your paradigms are infectious. | [18:50] |
thestringpuller | asciilifeform: homo redditicus << can I use this in future qntra articles? | [18:50] |
ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: IFF mechanism << another application for asymmetric crypto. | [18:53] |
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ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: gorgeous diagrams. thank you. | [18:55] |
thestringpuller | http://qntra.net/2015/03/man-who-establishes-bounty-to-replace-vessennes-bitcoin-foundation-on-board/ | [18:58] |
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danielpbarron | !up indiancandy1 | [19:20] |
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thestringpuller | danielpbarron: you must be omnitwitteraware | [19:21] |
thestringpuller | second bb posted my article was downstaires getting moar beer | [19:21] |
thestringpuller | i see "You have 1 new twitter mention" on my phone | [19:21] |
thestringpuller | lolol | [19:21] |
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indiancandy1 | thanks daniel | [19:22] |
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cazalla | oh.. no scoopbot : http://qntra.net/2015/03/silberts-bit-to-trade-on-pink-sheets/ | [19:31] |
assbot | Silbert's BIT To Trade On Pink Sheets | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1M0RMNn ) | [19:31] |
jurov | btw have you seen the "nyse to invest to CBSE" tidbit? | [19:36] |
jurov | http://www.pymnts.com/news/2015/nyse-usaa-and-bbva-make-75m-coinbase-investment/ | [19:37] |
assbot | NYSE, USAA and BBVA Make $75M Coinbase Investment | PYMNTS.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1M0S1I6 ) | [19:37] |
jurov | !t m d.cbse | [19:38] |
assbot | You had the last Philistine. This one's mine. | [19:38] |
jurov | lol, assbot ate it | [19:39] |
jurov | The total raised by Coinbase has now hit $106 million. Coinbase, a San Francisco-based company reports that there are 2.1 million bitcoin wallets from a customer base of 1.9 million | [19:40] |
jurov | ;;calc 106/1.9 | [19:41] |
gribble | 55.7894736842 | [19:41] |
jurov | ^ per chump | [19:41] |
indiancandy1 | oi | [19:42] |
cazalla | jurov, yeah that's old news now | [19:42] |
jurov | haven't seen it discussed here | [19:42] |
jurov | maybe i miss something but D.CBSE looks attractive | [19:42] |
cazalla | i think BingoBoingo wrote that up if memory serves | [19:43] |
thestringpuller | jurov: attractive to short? | [19:43] |
BingoBoingo | Old news, being repeated because google news sucks | [19:43] |
jurov | you don't believe they can IPO it at > 46 million? | [19:44] |
jurov | that's what D.CBSE price implies | [19:44] |
thestringpuller | jurov: haven't they raised in the 100's of mn? | [19:46] |
jurov | yes | [19:46] |
thestringpuller | SF, prosperity built on fake money. | [19:47] |
jurov | so if they manage to IPO coinbase, it can raise so much, no? | [19:47] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24666 @ 0.00039445 = 9.7295 BTC [+] {2} | [19:48] |
thestringpuller | they'd have to raise more than their "implied valuation" right? like 100 mn+ ? | [19:48] |
thestringpuller | so early investors can exit cleanly, aka the FB IPO scam. | [19:48] |
jurov | For D.CBSE long investment to be even, it needs "only" $46m IPO or buyout | [19:48] |
jurov | at current btcusd | [19:49] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14984 @ 0.00040351 = 6.0462 BTC [+] {2} | [19:49] |
jurov | and i'm curious why mircea thinks that won't ever happen | [19:49] |
thestringpuller | risky cause who knows if they ever IPO... | [19:49] |
thestringpuller | or get bought out. | [19:49] |
jurov | imo they can't afford to wait either | [19:50] |
jurov | (they=the bezzle investors) | [19:50] |
* | assbot removes voice from indiancandy1 | [19:51] |
thestringpuller | jurov: what if the bezzle investors don't care tho? | [19:51] |
thestringpuller | you do bring up good question tho: what is the bezzle investors endgame (or what they have in mind at least)? | [19:52] |
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jurov | waterfall operators definitely care | [19:53] |
jurov | yes, maybe they want just to drive it to the ground | [19:53] |
jurov | i dunno, just asking. and don't want to tie more bitcoins for indeterminate time in D.CBSE, either. | [19:54] |
mircea_popescu | !up indiancandy1 | [19:55] |
-assbot- | You voiced indiancandy1 for 30 minutes. | [19:55] |
* | assbot gives voice to indiancandy1 | [19:55] |
thestringpuller | if company is run into ruins (i.e. MtGox)...it is moot issue | [19:55] |
indiancandy1 | hi mp | [19:55] |
mircea_popescu | [19:56] | |
mircea_popescu | 75mn with btc at 250 means 300k extra btc worth of shares. | [19:57] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14539 @ 0.00038341 = 5.5744 BTC [-] | [19:58] |
jurov | yes, dilutive.. on other side, it increased the number of people interested to inflate it beyond all reason and then release it | [19:59] |
mircea_popescu | right. | [20:00] |
mircea_popescu | just because of btc/usd vagaries, the original investment (which happened at 1200) lost 85% of its value. | [20:00] |
mircea_popescu | [20:02] | |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: gorgeous diagrams << that thing contains perhaps 80% of the info required to construct the rocket. | [20:02] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: the algorithmics are not described in great detail, but the waveforms representing the proportional-control mechanism are shown, and at this point the 'multicopter' folks have rederived all of it and then some | [20:03] |
asciilifeform | very basic maths | [20:03] |
jurov | they can't sell for over 350k btc.. << or else? you'll keep selling as many D.CBSE as necessary? | [20:04] |
mircea_popescu | suppose in 2020 coinbase lists on nyse, 100mn shares, and they go for 50 bux each. that's 5 bn. | [20:04] |
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mircea_popescu | suppose at the same time btc/usd trades for 18`560 | [20:05] |
mircea_popescu | at that point, the coinbase listing has actually been a net loss for d.cbse holders. | [20:05] |
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asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: some of the more interesting stuff is in the text - e.g., description of the molten-electrolyte battery; the sensor cooling system; the guidance loop per se | [20:08] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: i'll add that the document is in fact a textbook for detachment commanders operating the rocket | [20:11] |
asciilifeform | published by tomsk politechnik university press | [20:11] |
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asciilifeform | similar textbook for a cannon: http://portal.tpu.ru/files/departments/publish/VK_Machinko.pdf | [20:14] |
mircea_popescu | jurov as an example, if someone bought 100 shares on mpex today at the 0.239 price paying 23.9 btc, he would control (if memory serves) 1% of the 1% f.derp stake in the origial coinbase. that'd entitle him to 0.01% of the value of 50/350 parts in the coinbase ipo, which would come to | [20:14] |
mircea_popescu | ;;calc 5000000000×50÷350×0.0001 | [20:14] |
gribble | Error: invalid syntax ( |
[20:14] |
mircea_popescu | ;;calc 5000000000*50/350*0.0001 | [20:15] |
gribble | 71428.5714286 | [20:15] |
mircea_popescu | 71k usd is a great return for a 24 btc investment, | [20:15] |
asciilifeform | (yes, mircea_popescu would probably point out that it is not a cannon, but a heavy machine-gun.) | [20:15] |
mircea_popescu | provided coinbase goes to 5bn while btc stays under | [20:15] |
mircea_popescu | ;;calc 71428.5714286 / 23.9 | [20:16] |
gribble | 2988.64315601 | [20:16] |
mircea_popescu | otherwise, if coinbase opens for a mkt cap of 250mn in two years (accounting for inflation, basically)... | [20:17] |
mircea_popescu | anyway, the utter chilling of d.* trade past while shows kinda plainly where that ship's going, imo. | [20:19] |
jurov | i see | [20:20] |
mircea_popescu | obv this is just napkin calcs, a definitive version'd come out once that unicorn stomps its foot. | [20:22] |
mircea_popescu | https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net << remarkably unsticky, dat social media "traffic" | [20:26] |
assbot | Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast | [20:26] |
jurov | oh and thx for shedding the light on d.cbse | [20:28] |
mircea_popescu | (and all this neglecting their previous round, http://recode.net/2014/11/14/bitcoin-company-coinbase-raising-new-investment-at-400-million-valuation/ ) | [20:30] |
assbot | Bitcoin Company Coinbase Raising New Investment at $400 Million Valuation | Re/code ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ4Wap ) | [20:30] |
mircea_popescu | basically, they're trying for a usg mpex. which... hey, fine, have fun trying. | [20:31] |
cazalla | mircea_popescu, yeah i think it was bb that said we'd be lucky to turn 1% of it into reg readers | [20:32] |
jurov | !t m f.mpif | [20:32] |
assbot | [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 7D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 30D: 0.000206 / 0.00020657 / 0.000207 (1750 shares, 0.36 BTC) | [20:32] |
thestringpuller | mircea_popescu: they're trying for a usg mpex. << More like Reddit MPEX | [20:33] |
mircea_popescu | thestringpuller no. | [20:33] |
cazalla | i thought it was a cardinal sin for it to be called anything other than MPEx? :P | [20:34] |
thestringpuller | although coinbase is a part of the waterfall only derps utilize it. | [20:34] |
mircea_popescu | well, horowitz and the rest of the policy vehicles are on board, so. | [20:34] |
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thestringpuller | this doesn't mean the customer base is anything other than homo redditicus | [20:35] |
thestringpuller | although MPex has it's idiots (see: http://trilema.com/2013/because-most-people-are-idiots-in-spite-of-never-manning-up-and-admitting-to-it/) don't think it's near the same percentages as coinbase users | [20:36] |
mircea_popescu | i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important in this discussion. | [20:37] |
mircea_popescu | but in other news, http://i.imgur.com/kqxF9Mo.jpg | [20:37] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ665V ) | [20:37] |
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mircea_popescu | and incidentally that must be a typo, 1.9mn users 2.1mn accounts. more like 190k. | [20:39] |
mircea_popescu | seems improbable even that many actually sent the ridoinculous "kyc" paperwork. | [20:39] |
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mircea_popescu | cazalla the "usg mpex" comment was chiefly because there's no conceivable need a webwallet operator could have for even 1mn. | [20:43] |
mircea_popescu | somewhat mirroring the "mpex is worth a billion dollars ?!?!?!" thing. | [20:44] |
thestringpuller | mircea_popescu: i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important << I don't but the inevitabilibty of such an endeavor (i.e. http://qntra.net/2015/02/us-political-crisis-may-impoverish-homeland-security-department/#comment-11399), doesn't seem like a good thing | [20:44] |
mircea_popescu | mebbe so. | [20:44] |
thestringpuller | particularly with "those people" involved | [20:44] |
mircea_popescu | im moreover curious if they're going to actually try and rescue the scam foundation or just make a new and "real" one. | [20:44] |
mircea_popescu | kinda win-win situation, if they try to rescue the scam foundation they will fail, if they don't you know we scare them. | [20:45] |
thestringpuller | what if they just let foundation die and then try again? | [20:45] |
mircea_popescu | thestringpuller the only "people involved" by now are horowitz and the us fed. | [20:46] |
thestringpuller | there is no endgame for them launching a foundation. | [20:46] |
thestringpuller | or resucing existing one | [20:46] |
asciilifeform | if there's one thing we 'know' about the undead, it is that they can walk indefinitely until physically scattered | [20:47] |
asciilifeform | into smallish pieces | [20:47] |
asciilifeform | consider the 'silent circle' and 'redphone' crap by the subverted zimmerman | [20:47] |
asciilifeform | anal opening a mile wide is found? no matter, carries on exactly as before. | [20:48] |
thestringpuller | asciilifeform: we also know undead are more "effective" when there are lots of them. | [20:48] |
asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916 | [20:48] |
assbot | Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened. | [20:48] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform notice how none of the coverage included a "this C round utterly dilutes naive investors from the previous B and A rounds" | [20:48] |
mircea_popescu | heck, the B round's not even mentioned AT ALL. | [20:49] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: because that's SOP ! | [20:49] |
asciilifeform | also sop | [20:49] |
asciilifeform | that'd be like coverage of an assassination describing the exact mechanical workings of the rifle | [20:49] |
mircea_popescu | yeah well... | [20:49] |
asciilifeform | 'and then the hammer hit the firing pin, and the...' | [20:49] |
mircea_popescu | so some derp on reddit wanted to know "why do we even want to kill banks then" in the blockchain subversion debate. | [20:50] |
mircea_popescu | well... this is why : so this sort of shit stops washing. | [20:50] |
mircea_popescu | not so that random redditard can buy his porn for 0 fees. | [20:50] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.0003979 = 15.4584 BTC [+] | [20:51] |
mircea_popescu | ( http://trilema.com/2015/and-then-she-went-splat-on-the-asphalt/#footnote_5_60229 ref) | [20:52] |
assbot | And then she went splat! on the asphalt. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ8Cck ) | [20:52] |
asciilifeform | 'why spent time with roaches ?' | [20:53] |
mircea_popescu | i eat them. | [20:53] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37739 @ 0.00040159 = 15.1556 BTC [+] {2} | [20:54] |
asciilifeform | chinese school, i see. | [20:54] |
jurov | http://explo.yt/post/2015/03/02/F.MPIF-February-2015-trading-statement | [21:07] |
assbot | F.MPIF February 2015 trading statement - serialized delusions ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZbhmt ) | [21:07] |
cazalla | mircea_popescu, for sake of thestringpuller and mine private conversation, have you ever bedded a north korean woman? | [21:08] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70700 @ 0.00038261 = 27.0505 BTC [-] {2} | [21:21] |
gabriel_laddel | !s my face is a pancake | [21:23] |
assbot | 1 results for 'my face is a pancake' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=my+face+is+a+pancake | [21:23] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35550 @ 0.00040421 = 14.3697 BTC [+] {2} | [21:39] |
* | yhwh_ (~yhwh@unaffiliated/yhwh/x-6819798) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [21:41] |
ben_vulpes | [21:41] | |
ben_vulpes | there is a reason i call this kind of document torture. | [21:41] |
ben_vulpes | i could make these things. | [21:42] |
ben_vulpes | but... | [21:42] |
ben_vulpes | "one year, no distractions." | [21:42] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: betcha one could do considerably better - from first principles - with modern tech | [21:43] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: the rocket described in the book is older than i am | [21:43] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: the originals didn't even contain microprocessor. | [21:44] |
* | yhwh__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | [21:44] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: and does one even need a rocket against a rotating-wing machine, or would a swarm of multicopters suffice. | [21:44] |
asciilifeform | (disposable, of course) | [21:45] |
ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: well yes, improvements in performance and reductions in cost exercises for not even terribly alert reader. | [21:45] |
ben_vulpes | anyways, armsmithing for the next engagements is terribly interesting and entirely impossible to do from where i am. | [21:46] |
ben_vulpes | those who do in these parts - aren't interested in novel strategies or applications of commodity technology | [21:46] |
asciilifeform | can still think. | [21:46] |
ben_vulpes | dream. | [21:46] |
asciilifeform | and write down for the ones who make it out alive. | [21:46] |
ben_vulpes | nah. | [21:47] |
ben_vulpes | these designs have value. | [21:47] |
ben_vulpes | the *real* value though, is in the strategist given free reign to be creative. | [21:49] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1022459 | [21:49] |
assbot | Logged on 17-02-2015 18:16:06; mircea_popescu: in any case, strategically speaking, it will be a lot easier, cheaper and blood-economical to unseat the fiat atrocity supporting the welfare state by destroying the "industrial" paradigm. | [21:49] |
asciilifeform | similar discussion in old thread | [21:49] |
asciilifeform | the rocket, just as the modern ic, was designed by and for industrial system. | [21:50] |
asciilifeform | that is, to be produced en masse via the traditional processes for manufactured goods | [21:50] |
asciilifeform | the opposite does not (yet) exist | [21:50] |
BingoBoingo | Time to practice winding your own motors! | [21:51] |
asciilifeform | one of the strongest levers of the 20th century totalitarian mega-state is air power | [21:51] |
asciilifeform | against which there is no low-cost unindustrial counter. | [21:51] |
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ben_vulpes | monofilament's pretty low cost. | [21:51] |
asciilifeform | if such a thing were to exist - major problems for the owners of jet-propelled statal enforcement. | [21:51] |
ben_vulpes | not unindustrial, though. | [21:51] |
asciilifeform | see also, | [21:52] |
asciilifeform | !s you and the atomic bomb | [21:52] |
assbot | 12 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb | [21:52] |
asciilifeform | (orwell's basic primer on the subject) | [21:52] |
thestringpuller | asciilifeform: http://copenhagensuborbitals.com/ << what about these d00ds? | [21:52] |
thestringpuller | i thought other big cost in rocket was d00ds in black suits showin' up and shuttin down the studio | [21:52] |
thestringpuller | enough bezzles makes them shoo tho | [21:52] |
ben_vulpes | thestringpuller: orthogonal. | [21:53] |
asciilifeform | thestringpuller: it's either a usg-controlled semi-scam, or doomed to be suppressed | [21:53] |
asciilifeform | but in both cases entirely not what i was speaking of | [21:53] |
asciilifeform | nobody is ever building any of what is pictured on that page on anything other than a fleet-of-mazeratis budget | [21:54] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43750 @ 0.00040618 = 17.7704 BTC [+] {2} | [21:56] |
ben_vulpes | moreover, a largely useless project. | [21:57] |
ben_vulpes | motor aside. | [21:57] |
thestringpuller | http://copenhagensuborbitals.com/manned-test-of-nexo-parachute-saturday-214/ << LOL "Cancelled due to bad weather" | [21:57] |
asciilifeform | chumpatronics with physical props. | [21:57] |
ben_vulpes | submarine was more useful. | [21:57] |
ben_vulpes | eh, it's just some guys having fun. | [21:58] |
ben_vulpes | what of it. | [21:58] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: i actually found the 'igla' article while looking for... the battery. | [21:58] |
asciilifeform | there are certain methods of making a battery that are not used in modern consumer types | [21:58] |
asciilifeform | single-shot and extremely expensive | [21:59] |
ben_vulpes | i'm more interested in single-shot and extremely cheap. | [21:59] |
* | ben_vulpes giving the whole armsmithing game away for some reason | [21:59] |
asciilifeform | but just such a battery could make the difference between an unmanned flying machine that can deliver $thing between point a and b, say | [21:59] |
thestringpuller | ben_vulpes: you drink bottled water don't you :P | [22:00] |
ben_vulpes | thestringpuller: nope. | [22:00] |
ben_vulpes | ;;google Bull Run | [22:00] |
gribble | The Battle of Bull Run Summary & Facts | Civilwar.org: |
[22:00] |
ben_vulpes | ;;google bull run reservoir | [22:00] |
gribble | Bull Run River (Oregon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: |
[22:00] |
ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: if the thing's reasonably robust, a parabolic delivery trajectory should suffice. | [22:00] |
ben_vulpes | $thing | [22:01] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: not everything likes travelling via icbm | [22:01] |
ben_vulpes | tough cookies. | [22:02] |
asciilifeform | nor is a 300km accuracy cone acceptable for most cargo other than nuke | [22:02] |
ben_vulpes | that's a pessimistic cone. | [22:02] |
ben_vulpes | missing variable: delivery distance. | [22:02] |
ben_vulpes | if it needs to go that far, put an ice on it. | [22:03] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51538 @ 0.00040687 = 20.9693 BTC [+] {2} | [22:04] |
* | aspho has quit () | [22:04] |
ben_vulpes | but do share your design envelope, i'm very curious what sorts of requirements you're considering that require some crazy one-shot battery. | [22:04] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: ever find it interesting that there are wankatronic societies like the 'amateur space' thing linked earlier, but nobody (has admitted to) sending a 100% amateur-built unmanned machine across, e.g., atlantic ? | [22:04] |
ben_vulpes | there are the S.A. submersibles. | [22:05] |
asciilifeform | slow, expensive, and nobody's building one in his cellar or launching from back yard. | [22:06] |
asciilifeform | and coasts are well-patrolled in the 'civilized' world. | [22:06] |
ben_vulpes | lol nowhere near as expensive as their payloads are valuable. | [22:06] |
asciilifeform | we are thinking of entirely different worlds, perhaps | [22:06] |
ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: 'well patrolled' << i'm pretty sure that 50+ sneak through for every single one busted. | [22:06] |
asciilifeform | they pass unmolested - and the cargo travels on, on land - at lizardhitler's pleasure. | [22:07] |
ben_vulpes | you're familiar i'm sure with the near-disposable cessna's thrown over america's southern border, stuffed to the gills with $substance? | [22:07] |
ben_vulpes | cessnas* | [22:07] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: toy store range, toy store machine | [22:07] |
asciilifeform | and human operator. | [22:07] |
asciilifeform | trivially radiolocatable. | [22:08] |
asciilifeform | a 'cessna' would be a car-sized ordinary airplane, no ? | [22:08] |
ben_vulpes | correct. | [22:08] |
asciilifeform | aha, was still thinking of automatics | [22:09] |
ben_vulpes | flying below ceiling at which all objects are 'trivially' observable. | [22:09] |
asciilifeform | smugglers landing ordinary machines in sparsely-populated desert - century-old state of the art | [22:09] |
asciilifeform | snore. | [22:09] |
ben_vulpes | yes well do away with the $maxint vehicle cert process, $maxint operator training... | [22:10] |
ben_vulpes | construction fundamentals are well understood, automatics well understood (granted by fewer people)... | [22:10] |
ben_vulpes | i still do not see a need for this wacky battery of yours. | [22:10] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: mental excursion in how 'silk road' etc. - in alternate universe where folks have brains - could have worked. | [22:11] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: think this way: what country, on what continent, has sovereignty over... birds ? | [22:12] |
ben_vulpes | the chinese! | [22:12] |
asciilifeform | even the fabled chinese sparrows | [22:12] |
asciilifeform | still flying. | [22:12] |
ben_vulpes | remember when all the children went out after...yes. | [22:12] |
ben_vulpes | batteries are still bogus. | [22:13] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15645 @ 0.00040784 = 6.3807 BTC [+] | [22:13] |
ben_vulpes | or maybe not! maybe i'm crazy. | [22:13] |
ben_vulpes | maybe the trick is to leverage existing industrial commodity electrical motors and do something clever with the batteries. | [22:13] |
asciilifeform | ^ | [22:14] |
ben_vulpes | the power to weight ratio just *always* turns me off. | [22:14] |
BingoBoingo | * ben_vulpes giving the whole armsmithing game away for some reason << Railgun? | [22:14] |
asciilifeform | for batteries which don't need to be 'safe' or reusable or dirt-cheap - this changes. | [22:14] |
ben_vulpes | BingoBoingo: that prototype never worked and has long since been consigned to my parents dustbin. | [22:14] |
ben_vulpes | i probably didn't know enough to make it work when i attempted it. | [22:15] |
asciilifeform | by how much, requires a very detailed study of surviving soviet literature. which i presently lack the time for. but might get back to one day | [22:15] |
ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: i'd rather leverage my wot for landing sites and refuelers. | [22:15] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-02-2015#1026299 | [22:16] |
assbot | Logged on 20-02-2015 18:23:10; ascii_field: humans-in-the-loop is what -every single person nailed by usg so far- had in common. | [22:16] |
asciilifeform | ^ relevant thread | [22:17] |
ben_vulpes | this is a strictly us problem, though. | [22:18] |
ben_vulpes | the rest of the world doth not operate so insanely. | [22:18] |
ben_vulpes | and why (why why why?!) must everything be about enraging the insane bear in the room? | [22:19] |
asciilifeform | us includes pretty much the entire planet outside of ru and cn | [22:19] |
ben_vulpes | you vastly overestimate their abilities. | [22:19] |
ben_vulpes | didn't they just retain some 20k unseasoned mercs to go after a mob of kalash-equipped pashtuns? | [22:20] |
ben_vulpes | give me a break. | [22:20] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: objective was controlled chaos. not to remove the particular crop of (not pashtuns) | [22:20] |
ben_vulpes | i've yet to see them achieve one thing they set out to, in my entire life of watching them ferry soldiers across the sea. | [22:21] |
ben_vulpes | 'gulf war' perhaps aside. | [22:21] |
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ben_vulpes | i don't buy this 'controlled chaos'. isis is a mortal threat to the us (and all client states) and they desire desperately to wipe it out. | [22:23] |
gabriel_laddel | !s gravity well | [22:23] |
assbot | 26 results for 'gravity well' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gravity+well | [22:23] |
ben_vulpes | implying, gabriel_laddel? | [22:23] |
gabriel_laddel | Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't much of the discussion in this channel based on the assumption that usg is going to fall apart? | [22:23] |
gabriel_laddel | why, all of the sudden are they a immediate threat to a hypothetical? | [22:24] |
ben_vulpes | this conversation is about airspace control. | [22:24] |
asciilifeform | gabriel_laddel: it was quite clear in '43 that third reich would fall apart | [22:24] |
asciilifeform | but it was also clear that it would not do so quickly or without damage to surroundings | [22:24] |
asciilifeform | and could use help | [22:24] |
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ben_vulpes | I need a primer on that period. | [22:25] |
asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: i'm not certain that a worthwhile picture can be obtained solely in english. | [22:26] |
asciilifeform | BingoBoingo: http://cryptome.org/2015/03/snowden-hk-security-devices.htm >> l0lz | [22:26] |
assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1K5zsHf ) | [22:26] |
asciilifeform | is that a mtgox otp generator ? | [22:27] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29400 @ 0.00039939 = 11.7421 BTC [-] | [22:27] |
asciilifeform | (rectangular keychain, black with gold-coloured button in center, usb male) | [22:28] |
BingoBoingo | asciilifeform: Appears to indeed be a Yubikey | [22:28] |
asciilifeform | lol! | [22:28] |
BingoBoingo | asciilifeform: I'm telling you the film is a lulzmine | [22:28] |
mod6 | who is testing a pogo currently? asciilifeform, danielpbarron and BingoBoingo? | [22:28] |
asciilifeform | BingoBoingo: can you tell me why an actual snowden would have himself filmed ? | [22:28] |
BingoBoingo | mod6: Don't have pogo | [22:29] |
mod6 | ok | [22:29] |
asciilifeform | mod6: i have one; currently writing a netbsd kernel driv. for the nand flash | [22:29] |
asciilifeform | well, by 'currently' meaning a few hrs./wk, sadly | [22:29] |
mod6 | hows that going anyway? | [22:29] |
BingoBoingo | asciilifeform: From film it seems he was worried about "black bag" and in the event wanted martyrdom. | [22:29] |
asciilifeform | BingoBoingo: conveniently carried (red) bag? | [22:30] |
BingoBoingo | asciilifeform: "Privacy Hood" he called it | [22:30] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.0003989 = 8.8955 BTC [-] {2} | [22:31] |
BingoBoingo | asciilifeform: Used to keep lizard in the room from watching him type | [22:32] |
asciilifeform | why would anyone use a device such as 'yubikey' for access to a man-portable machine ? | [22:32] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32399 @ 0.00038251 = 12.3929 BTC [-] {2} | [22:33] |
BingoBoingo | asciilifeform: because... pro idiotas | [22:41] |
BingoBoingo | Perhaps he doesn't trust his brain to "brainwallet" strong passwords | [22:42] |
BingoBoingo | Yubikeys have been used to store fixed long passwords for local use. Just works like a USB keyboard in that case. Just... | [22:43] |
BingoBoingo | The Man Portable machine has a keyboard | [22:43] |
mircea_popescu | [22:43] | |
mircea_popescu | "you can always make a cheaper rocket" | [22:44] |
mircea_popescu | [22:47] | |
mircea_popescu | us doesn't even include fucking nebraska. | [22:47] |
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mircea_popescu | [22:48] | |
mircea_popescu | [22:49] | |
mircea_popescu | i seem to recall granpa churchill spinning some prime yarn bout how "and once england is defeated our realms across the sea will carry on without us" | [22:50] |
* | assbot gives voice to chatquack | [22:50] |
jurov | lol i remembered one denizen of Golden Lane in Prague Castle. | [22:53] |
jurov | She was a soothsayer and prophesied a fall of the Third reich | [22:53] |
jurov | Was taken by getapo in '43. | [22:53] |
jurov | *gestapo | [22:53] |
jurov | ^ dat research | [22:54] |
mircea_popescu | up until leningrad it was not at all clear the reich will ever end, especially not from outside. | [22:55] |
mircea_popescu | certainly not to stalin. | [22:55] |
mircea_popescu | unrelatedly, i just ingested a quart of the world's best icecream. BEST you hear me ? | [22:58] |
mircea_popescu | i'm burping deliciousness now. | [22:58] |
thestringpuller | mircea_popescu: that sposed to make us grape jelly? | [22:58] |
mircea_popescu | nah | [23:05] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00040543 = 10.6223 BTC [+] | [23:11] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42537 @ 0.00041077 = 17.4729 BTC [+] {2} | [23:14] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20970 @ 0.00040543 = 8.5019 BTC [-] | [23:23] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53781 @ 0.00040963 = 22.0303 BTC [+] | [23:35] |
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Category: Logs