Forum logs for 01 Mar 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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mircea_popescu ben_vulpes tis complicated. [00:05]
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cazalla anyone know if i'm missing any from the list? just using alexa as one metric, will find others for use in comparison each month going [00:36]
assbot ... ( ) [00:36]
cazalla oops, forget to remove tardstalk from that one (have a longer list with other non news sites) [00:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42546 @ 0.00040542 = 17.249 BTC [+] [00:55]
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asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: any more information on the Chinese run << of al's eötvös experiment ? just some private correspondence, where he confirms the same story told on usenet [01:06]
asciilifeform (i have no reason not to believe him) [01:07]
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asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: ditto the roach repellent [01:07]
asciilifeform though i have not tried it personally, nor do i know enough about roaches to say if there are nuances not accounted for [01:08]
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asciilifeform (i did work through a good chunk of the maths behind al's eötvös adventures, for own edification and to attempt to come up with a way to rescue him - to learn how that went, see old thread) [01:09]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you will notice the imperial mooks got utterly owned in that play << afaik usg accomplished their one non-negotiable thing in iraq - break the orcs into eternally-warring bantustans, 'vaccinate' against any possible emergence of a real sovereign [01:13]
asciilifeform plus they churned inventory, the real immediate purpose of all usg .mil maneuvers [01:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the merging of those two ideas yields a pretty powerful metaphor. << let's have the ps0t, yes. looking forward to reading it [01:15]
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asciilifeform decimation: the 'gpu issue' happens on even more recent macbooks << it's been a thing ever since the mandatory switch to pb-free [01:15]
gabriel_laddel (for the record, I've not run the numbers on Schwartz's experiment yet, don't know for sure yet that it is valid, but can say that yes, everything he says is falsifiable and yes, everyone who say "he is a crank" etc. is a lying scumbag for not pointing out the exact sentence where he missteps. EG: in which a "string theorist" knowingly [01:16]
gabriel_laddel glosses over the whole point of the experiment, which he would know if he has read it) [01:16]
assbot parity - Weak equivalence principle tests - Physics Stack Exchange ... ( ) [01:16]
asciilifeform decimation: it is quite possibly impractical to make bga (ball grid array) ic packages without pb [01:16]
asciilifeform but they insist on it anyway [01:16]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [01:16]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: let's put it this way. the theoretical work gives very specific - numeric - predictions [01:17]
asciilifeform that could easily be tested. [01:17]
gabriel_laddel yep. [01:17]
gabriel_laddel that should be clear to anyone reading it [01:18]
gabriel_laddel I'm not going to claim to know that the math works out unless I do it myself though [01:18]
asciilifeform 'For example, Newton's apple contains vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) which is parity-asymmetric, and it would accelerate differently if the laws of gravity cared about the mirror images.' << lying scum, yes. implying that effect cannot exist because not observable with naked eye on naturally-occurring objects [01:18]
asciilifeform whereas all kinds of bullshit, which cannot be observed anywhere, ever, even in principle - is entirely real to a 'string theorist.' [01:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00040538 = 6.6888 BTC [-] [01:19]
asciilifeform physics - as a discipline - is 99+% tumour, with scarcely any patient tissue remaining [01:21]
asciilifeform of the ordinary sort [01:21]
gabriel_laddel reality will do a backtracking branch cut soon enough [01:21]
gabriel_laddel we just have to wait [01:21]
asciilifeform all tumours eventually stop growing... [01:21]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: btw, do you know any category theory? [01:22]
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asciilifeform only the very basics. [01:23]
gabriel_laddel it seem to me that they're not doing the obvious, which bothers me somewhat. [01:24]
asciilifeform the experiment ? [01:24]
asciilifeform well, yes. [01:24]
asciilifeform if they did it, someone, somewhere, might dig up the fella who actually invented it [01:24]
gabriel_laddel nah, the obvious, in the case of category theory: Sucking up all the mathematics ever via some OCR routines and categorizing it via computer. Have an intern write a parser for latex -> ast [01:25]
asciilifeform the whole affair went on in its current form far too long for the usual dance of the buggers - 'pretend it never happened' - to go as does [01:25]
* asciilifeform head-desks [01:25]
gabriel_laddel my basic understanding of category theory is that there are interesting things that can be derived when you break down basic mathematics into some abstractions such as functors, mappings etc. [01:26]
asciilifeform 1) ocr doesn't work because 99.99% is still ludicrously low - human reader -who fully understands the text- still required 2) no ocr exists or is reasonably likely to ever exist for anything rich in notation 3) the machine-readability of most mathematical work is a fully ai-complete problem [01:26]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: if you're thinking of a human-cranked systematization project, straight to doug lenat's 'cyc' (i'll spoil it for you: it was stillborn) [01:27]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: this is exactly what I was thinking of [01:28]
gabriel_laddel well, I've not looked at cyc yet, but thanks for the pointer. [01:28]
asciilifeform !s cyc [01:28]
assbot 6 results for 'cyc' : [01:28]
* gabriel_laddel hand-cranked systematization is exactly what I had in mind [01:28]
asciilifeform the politics of cyc etc. aside, such projects are about as interesting as the historical proposals to go to the moon in balloons, shooting men from cannons, etc. [01:29]
asciilifeform fact is, we haven't actually built computers yet [01:29]
mircea_popescu cazalla alexa's pretty clueless fwiw. [01:29]
asciilifeform any more than montgolfier brothers had 'aviation' [01:29]
cazalla mircea_popescu, yeah but at least it is clueless to each site equally on the list [01:30]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nonsense. the middle east always was enternally-warring. this is like husband stuck with a bad divorce, "at least i made her into a slut" [01:30]
mircea_popescu mno. [01:30]
asciilifeform iraq had (past tense, note) army, industry, economy [01:30]
asciilifeform now has soup [01:31]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel string theorists are a lot like freudian psychanalists. the better ones follow the lieberman line. [01:31]
mircea_popescu the rest... [01:31]
mircea_popescu cazalla no, it's not. [01:32]
mircea_popescu think of it in terms of throwing bowling balls at a tree from outer space. you won't get within a mile. and if the first ball lands 735`331meters rom the tree, the next five won't land 735`331 meters from the next five threes. [01:34]
mircea_popescu trees* [01:34]
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mircea_popescu that could easily be tested. << not easily, no. but yes, they could be. [01:35]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i devised a test costing approximately 50k usd. [01:35]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: al ended up having to explain to me... well, the concept i outlined in the first thread re: this subject here in #b-a [01:35]
asciilifeform regarding provenance. [01:35]
mircea_popescu exactly. [01:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108600 @ 0.00040512 = 43.996 BTC [-] {3} [01:36]
mircea_popescu and that ftr is a valid objection. [01:36]
asciilifeform (most of the 50k, in case anyone cares, covers two well-used microcalorimeters.) [01:36]
mircea_popescu incidentally, in the ideal model which sits at the fundament of us academia, this would have been arranged over a phone call and tried the next week. [01:37]
mircea_popescu for free. [01:37]
asciilifeform it was a perfectly valid objection, which is why the experiment will not happen publicly on this side of the coming civilizational demolition. [01:37]
mircea_popescu and ironically, it's the environment i grew up in. [01:37]
asciilifeform i actually worked with a number of folks at the time who were ready to wangle access to the instruments for me. [01:38]
asciilifeform but al didn't want to pursue [01:38]
mircea_popescu why not ? [01:38]
asciilifeform well, he would have had to blow a rather expensive single-use wad [01:38]
mircea_popescu um ? [01:39]
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mircea_popescu re alexa : last time i measured their accuracy, it came out to about 96% error rating. ie, if alexa reads 100, it can see anything between 4 and 2500. [01:41]
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asciilifeform synthetic crystal of two chiral isomers of $censored that would have, according to the model, very small difference in energy of phase change [01:41]
asciilifeform in a way not accounted for by any previously known effect [01:42]
mircea_popescu i don't get it. he didn't want the experiment made in the end ? [01:42]
asciilifeform he understood that it wasn't free [01:43]
asciilifeform that is, that a failure for any number of reasons unrelated to the physical prediction - such as my hands growing out of my arse - would set him back (if such a thing were possible) years [01:43]
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asciilifeform anyone who wants to know what was going through his head - write to him! i don't relish playing 'broken telephone' [01:44]
asciilifeform and the man can speak for himself, and really ought to [01:44]
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* thestringpuller refreshes contravex [01:45]
pete_dushenski ;) [01:46]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu stoner paratrooper << fighters have a lot of relaxing to do! [01:47]
pete_dushenski [01:50]
assbot The asylum has its moments. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( ) [01:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dun follow this logic. [01:50]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it made sense to me. 'the lysenkoists refuse to even try' is bad enough, but 'see, somebody tried, it failed, shuddup' is quite possibly worse [01:52]
asciilifeform so if trying, has to be the 'full nine yards' [01:52]
mircea_popescu why does he care about implication footsie game ? [01:52]
asciilifeform rather than some kid and ratty old instruments from us army [01:52]
mircea_popescu no, it doesn't. if you try, you gotta try. [01:52]
asciilifeform iirc, it was an even bet whether the effect - if real - is even large enough to measure with current instrumentation at all [01:53]
mircea_popescu check it out, the web2.0 is being useful : [01:53]
assbot How to Play Footsie: 5 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow ... ( ) [01:53]
mircea_popescu i hope you're changing the world, schmuckos! [01:53]
gabriel_laddel iirc, it was an even bet whether the effect - if real - is even large enough to measure with current instrumentation at all << this makes a great deal of sense [01:55]
mircea_popescu this can't be a rationale not to try. [01:55]
asciilifeform basically he insisted that a negative result must come from one of the two eotvos torsion balances [01:55]
gabriel_laddel he isn't giving up, as far as I know, but biding his time [01:55]
asciilifeform as i gather, he's engaged in a contest of who-dies-first with adelberger [01:56]
mircea_popescu "biding his time" ? [01:56]
asciilifeform see above [01:56]
mircea_popescu suppose i go make the measurement myself ? [01:56]
mircea_popescu not like it's tied to his forehead. [01:56]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i confess, i almost decided to [01:56]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: how would i learn to play footsie if not via a wikihow article? [01:56]
asciilifeform might do it still [01:56]
asciilifeform if ever get out of here alive [01:56]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: the opposition lie through their teeth at every given moment, you don't want to give them anything to work with [01:56]
mircea_popescu this is science not politics, what's biding your time do. [01:56]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel this is not how it works. [01:57]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: did you read the stackoverflow post linked above? [01:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00039163 = 2.9764 BTC [-] [01:57]
mircea_popescu i confess i did not. why would it matter ? [01:57]
mircea_popescu science has no opposition. [01:57]
gabriel_laddel lemme finish making this burrito and I'll write up something on the game being played [01:58]
mircea_popescu my empanadas are made already. [01:58]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller makes you wonder how children were made before they invented shoes. [02:00]
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thestringpuller mircea_popescu: I thought you know storks and stuff... [02:01]
asciilifeform << pet critter holding my [6.6]chiralane. [02:01]
assbot ... ( ) [02:01]
asciilifeform from those das [02:01]
asciilifeform *days [02:01]
asciilifeform (whazzat? << original paper, schwartz & petitjean - they co-invented it) [02:02]
assbot ... ( ) [02:02]
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asciilifeform phun phact, it broke the definition of 'chirality' taught in schoolbooks [02:02]
asciilifeform had 'handedness' but no 'chiral centers' - that is, carbon atoms that are topologically 'key' [02:03]
mircea_popescu what's in the middle, sulphur ? [02:03]
asciilifeform that is, each carbon has -exactly the same thing- on all four bonds [02:03]
asciilifeform all c [02:03]
asciilifeform well, outer h'es not shown [02:04]
asciilifeform (as they typically aren't on a model) [02:04]
mircea_popescu but the big ball in teh centre [02:04]
asciilifeform fat carbon for clarity [02:04]
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asciilifeform l0l [02:04]
asciilifeform yeah everybody asks about fat carbon [02:04]
asciilifeform everyone i ever showed it to [02:04]
mircea_popescu a lol k [02:05]
asciilifeform actually my explanation is off, the center is topologically unique. but the thing meets none of the ochem textbook graph-theoretical definitions for chirality [02:07]
asciilifeform but is optically non-superimposable on its mirror image [02:07]
asciilifeform and, incidentally, there are other chiralanes possible (you can generate them as computer model, that is. there is, afaik, no known synthesis for any of them) [02:08]
asciilifeform anyone who still gives a damn - read the paper. [02:08]
asciilifeform << for those who can do 'crosseye' [02:09]
assbot ... ( ) [02:09]
assbot ... ( ) [02:09]
asciilifeform and o hey [02:10]
asciilifeform [02:10]
assbot organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( ) [02:10]
asciilifeform al's still kicking. [02:10]
gabriel_laddel What Al would like to test is pretty simple. Is gravity mirror-symmetric? If it is, then you can drop two stereoisomers in a vacuum, and they'll fall at the same rate. We don't know that this is the case, and the universe actually violates mirror-symmetry on many scales. Perhaps a violation will be observable. [02:10]
gabriel_laddel But you have to test it. [02:10]
ben_vulpes (people can't do "crosseye"?) [02:10]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: the interesting thing, and important to explain mircea_popescu's puzzlement, is that the enemy has been studiously arranging experiments to avoid actually testing the effect in question and declaring it 'settled' [02:11]
asciilifeform or rather, the question of nonexistence as 'settled' [02:11]
mircea_popescu eh get out already. [02:11]
mircea_popescu "the enemy" coudl as well be in korea. [02:11]
asciilifeform seriously [02:11]
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gabriel_laddel The Eot-wash group won't test this. And the string theorist in that stackoverflow question is more than happy to state that because a large construction of molecules falls at the speed we expect it to, it couldn't possibly happen on a small scale. [02:12]
asciilifeform they proclaimed 'settled' after 'carefully testing' left- and right-handed machine screws in a torsion balance [02:12]
gabriel_laddel which is obviously horse shit [02:12]
asciilifeform and failing to find difference [02:12]
asciilifeform lysenko lives [02:12]
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gabriel_laddel left and right handed machine screws != chirality !11! [02:12]
gabriel_laddel but the grant funding people don't know this [02:12]
mircea_popescu but this is not germane to the issue. [02:13]
mircea_popescu we're not discussing why some other blokes aren't testing it, we're discussing why the proponent isn't. [02:13]
asciilifeform the actual matter here is 'what's one physical effect vs hundred thousand respectable careers of respectable people (tm)' [02:13]
mircea_popescu and the proponent can't be doing or not doing "because of other people" (tm) [02:13]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he thought (as of our last at-length exchange, ~3 yrs or so) that he still had a chance to make the torsion balance owners see the light [02:14]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: but this is not germane to the issue. << Oh, but it is. These people are prepared to lie at every turn. See the stack overflow post, or the output of the Eot-wash group. If Al or Stan were make a mistake in the run, they'd never be able to test it again. [02:15]
gabriel_laddel check this out [02:15]
assbot HOME | The Eöt-Wash Group ... ( ) [02:15]
asciilifeform incidentally, he mentioned that other folks also offered to arrange, and he held off for same reason [02:15]
gabriel_laddel "1) Search for experimental signs of quantum gravity that violate Einstein's Equivalence Principle and/or the Newtonian inverse-square law." [02:15]
gabriel_laddel fuckwads [02:15]
asciilifeform aha see they are only interested in finding effect predicted by the usg-sponsored paper machine [02:16]
asciilifeform if it doesn't exist, they'd rather not turn up anything [02:16]
asciilifeform and certainly not a 'crackpot'-predicted boojum [02:16]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel exactly why not lol ? [02:16]
asciilifeform the legitimacy of the whole shebang is at stake [02:16]
gabriel_laddel As far as I can tell, it comes down to the basic strategic necessity of killing your enemy when you indend to. [02:16]
mircea_popescu ... [02:17]
gabriel_laddel If you're not strong enough now, retreat, lick your wounds and then strike when the time is right. [02:17]
mircea_popescu i never heard of this bizarro shamanistic approach to research. [02:17]
mircea_popescu the shit's hard enough without waiting for complex voodoo to allign. [02:17]
gabriel_laddel !s cognitive dissonance [02:17]
assbot 13 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : [02:17]
gabriel_laddel [02:17]
assbot Logged on 27-11-2014 15:36:04; mircea_popescu: no wonder everyone in the us needs a college degree. there's no way native intelligence could deal with a tenth of the cognitive dissonance dished out on a daily basis. [02:17]
mircea_popescu just measure the damned thing. if it doesn't come out, either refine the machinery or give up. [02:17]
gabriel_laddel the US is fucking nuts right now. you live in a bubble of sanity [02:17]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: let's gedankenexperiment. say we build the thing and it runs as predicted (see the last chemistry.stackexchange link for what we'd be doing, roughly) [02:18]
mircea_popescu if it does come out, put it on your blog and move on. [02:18]
asciilifeform then what [02:18]
mircea_popescu who the fuck cares what anyone else does ? [02:18]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's it. [02:18]
asciilifeform al doesn't, as i understand, agree. he wants it to keep walking from there [02:18]
asciilifeform which takes a few $b in imperial money [02:18]
mircea_popescu you will notice that the scam foundation is being fucking buried. in spite of... welll... consensus. [02:18]
mircea_popescu this shit only works if you buy into it. [02:19]
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mircea_popescu all this nonsense of little girl stuck on the trans side of maturity river, discussing whether she wants to cross or not, what if the cis side won't be all that it's cracked up to be etc. wtf. [02:20]
mircea_popescu maturity is not optional. [02:20]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: walk where? wants grant money for himself as a result of the discovery? [02:20]
asciilifeform have the thing pursued [02:20]
mircea_popescu well it's certainly closer to being pursued after being measured than before eh. [02:20]
asciilifeform see if effect can be had somewhere -left- of the eigth decimal [02:20]
asciilifeform for actual practical uses [02:20]
asciilifeform (we discussed some) [02:20]
mircea_popescu imagine! "i won't accidentally discover clorophorm unless it can be used as an anesthetic!" [02:21]
mircea_popescu this meta cancer upon the modern brain. people spend so much time considering "the implications" of shit that never happened they have no energy left to do stuff. [02:22]
asciilifeform what if chlorophorm cost what the 'difference engine' cost. [02:22]
mircea_popescu i suppose it's time to do a kickstarter. [02:22]
asciilifeform l0l [02:22]
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* mircea_popescu links here, and then proceeds to quote from [02:25]
assbot Causes and purposes pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [02:25]
assbot How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [02:25]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought you had a handle on the 'provenance' thing - that is, that al doesn't win unless his opponents actually lose by their own rules and surrender by their own free hand [02:25]
mircea_popescu "This flat, unyielding ignorance-as-the-forerunner-of-oblivion is both perfectly safev and exactly the adequate pill for the poison in dicussion, because it expends very little productive effort on the part of the productive members of society, while at the same time forcing upon the unproductive the exact Gordian knot they've been trying to talk their way around (and plenty, no doubt, hoped they had succeeded). That k [02:25]
mircea_popescu not is of course practice, which is to say : if I were to declare I am ignoring "all that Einstein jazz", all physics penned after 1900 or so, and then built a cathodic tube television that worked just fine without accounting for quantum effects, the trashing and bashing of Einstein fans would be all in vain : I'll just shrug my shoulders, keep building and selling my television sets and care not on whit of whatever th [02:25]
mircea_popescu ey may write." [02:25]
asciilifeform that is, if one day we simply exterminate them, he still hasn't really won, just sat down in lysenko's throne [02:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nothing keeps him from forking chemistry tho. [02:26]
gabriel_laddel !s lab nigger [02:26]
assbot 2 results for 'lab nigger' : [02:26]
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asciilifeform al actually spent years battling idiots who 'forked physics' and 'forked chemistry' on usenet, in much the same style as mpoe-pr battled btc sc4mz0rz [02:26]
asciilifeform it isn't really a concept he finds digestible [02:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there is a fundamental difference between lysenko (nutter whose shit DIDNT WORK) and this (if it works) [02:27]
gabriel_laddel Not as easy as it sounds. Life is finite, as exemplified by MP not reading Al's experiment spec, and Al not being MP [02:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform look, irrespective of all that : he can just do the thing. [02:27]
asciilifeform except if the difference only becomes palpable a few $b and decades later, it does't really exist to the naked eye [02:27]
mircea_popescu so / [02:27]
mircea_popescu it is still a material step that way. [02:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the conclusive test requires the torsion rotor [02:27]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: would you mind explaining the exact logistics of the equipment you'd need to put together to run the experiment? [02:28]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: there were two proposed experiments. [02:28]
gabriel_laddel so as to demonstrate exactly why it isn't as easy as "just measure the thing" [02:29]
asciilifeform the one i very nearly ended up participating in, is described (roughly) in earlier link [02:29]
asciilifeform [02:29]
assbot organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( ) [02:29]
asciilifeform or actually [02:29]
asciilifeform only the feedstock is described therein [02:29]
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gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: [02:30]
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asciilifeform see vi. parity calorimetry experiment [02:31]
asciilifeform section 'VIII. Parity Molecular Rotors' was my demented suggestion [02:31]
asciilifeform (suitably poured into the mold of the physically practical by al's expert hands) [02:32]
asciilifeform notice specific predicted divergence in microwave spectrogram. [02:32]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel the problem isn't exactly of the equipment. the problem is that if you make new equipment, you don't know if you're measuring the new equipment vs the old equipment or an actual effect. [02:33]
asciilifeform remember ? [02:33]
assbot Logged on 27-09-2014 02:36:41; asciilifeform: 'If you're a defendant, you don't get to claim your fingerprints miraculously appeared at a crime scene... If you're a bookkeeper, you don't get to say money miraculously disappeared from your company...' [02:33]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: I don't know the cost associated with calibrating these instruments and can't speak to the truth of that [02:34]
asciilifeform essentially, according to 'neutral' folks in physics, al simply doesn't -get to- make the instrument [02:34]
mircea_popescu well you asked as to the logisticsa. [02:34]
asciilifeform it doesn't count if it's his [02:34]
asciilifeform or, at this point, mine [02:34]
asciilifeform or mircea_popescu's [02:34]
asciilifeform in order for it to 'count' - yes, we have to 'fork physics' [02:34]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: well, I was asking Stan specifically becuase he could supply detailed information as to costs and political constraints [02:34]
gabriel_laddel which you have hand-waved away [02:35]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: i can only speak re: the costs of the component which i was to wangle time on [02:35]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: well, as the resident expert, would you mind expounding on these costs? [02:35]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform here's a thought : if al spent the past five years measuring things rather than skulking, he'd be in a much better position todasy than five years ago. [02:35]
gabriel_laddel just so we have a sense? [02:35]
mircea_popescu ya kno ? [02:35]
asciilifeform incidentally, iirc i also suggested use of microbolometer (aka infrared camera chip die) as a cheapo version of microcalorimeter [02:35]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he operates under constraints quite similar to mine [02:36]
asciilifeform that is, works in jungle conditions [02:36]
mircea_popescu yeah, wellllll.... [02:36]
asciilifeform i even marvel that he managed to grow the benzil crystal without going to jail [02:36]
mircea_popescu why would he go to jail ? [02:37]
mircea_popescu i grew permanganate crystals, at least that's a meth precurso. [02:37]
asciilifeform unlicensed possession of glassware, caustics, 'drug precursors', ... [02:37]
gabriel_laddel intent to manufacture... [02:37]
decimation asciilifeform: it seems the polarization version of the experiment would be much easier to set up [02:37]
mircea_popescu !up kyuupichan [02:37]
-assbot- You voiced kyuupichan for 30 minutes. [02:37]
* assbot gives voice to kyuupichan [02:37]
mircea_popescu eh get out. [02:38]
kyuupichan Hello, bitbet is stuck on the blockchain. [02:38]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla ? [02:38]
asciilifeform ! [02:38]
kyuupichan Once it catches up please review submitted bets. [02:38]
kyuupichan thx [02:39]
mircea_popescu if thjey got rejected you'll prolly have to resubmit. [02:39]
kyuupichan Got rejected as no zeroconf but they were, so either reconsider or refund, but at the moment as you think zero was sent you won't be refunding anything right? [02:39]
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mircea_popescu it'll refund once it catches up im sure. [02:40]
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kyuupichan Perhaps site needs an alarm where e.g. it's compared vs or [02:41]
mircea_popescu this might be an idea. [02:42]
asciilifeform 'A money-losing economy, like a money-losing restaurant, sucks. It sucks in all kinds of ways that have no apparent connection to finance. The entire dining experience is grim. This, indeed, is the experience of the entire "old economy" outside the little bubbles of Silicon Valley and Wall Street. My in-laws live in Columbus. Columbus sucks. Even with Chairman Ben's 85-billion-a-month bond-buying "recovery." It is more [02:46]
asciilifeform and more palpably a Soviet restaurant.' [02:46]
asciilifeform ^ from mr mold's old post, dropped here for the record [02:46]
gabriel_laddel why? [02:47]
asciilifeform his problem, like al's, is quite arguably: that he hasn't fully accepted death yet. [02:47]
asciilifeform and so tries to carve some corner for himself in the shadow of the seemingly-invincible thousand-year reich [02:48]
gabriel_laddel Ah. I'd like to point out that Al, unlike Mr. M has done useful work in the interim. [02:48]
asciilifeform what al does in his cellar, only the devil knows [02:48]
gabriel_laddel From what I could tell, from reading his usenet posts, he continues to work at Occidental research corp. [02:48]
asciilifeform i'll point out that publishing -everything- one does is generally a habit of mediocrities desperate for attention [02:49]
mircea_popescu the soviet restaurant thing is quite palpable here in argentina. [02:49]
mircea_popescu the places where usians go ? shit service, shit food. [02:49]
mircea_popescu the rest of the city ? great service, great food. [02:49]
* asciilifeform doesn't publicize so much as a fraction of a percent of what he spends time on [02:49]
mircea_popescu it's almost as if they deliberately constructed a home away from home, these people. [02:49]
asciilifeform (same probably for everyone here) [02:49]
mircea_popescu i can't tell you how many times i've stormed out of a shithole, inexplicable in context. [02:49]
mircea_popescu mthreat saw a few instances. [02:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the observation that usa tends to 'follow' the expats wherever they happen to congregate en masse, is an old one [02:50]
mircea_popescu there's even a chain of HORRIBLE icecream. in this town, that has the best icecream i have ever tasted, by a long shot, and abundantly supplied by numerous artisanal gelaterias [02:50]
asciilifeform fred 'fred on everything' reed mentioned it in his books [02:50]
mircea_popescu the usians have a fucktarded chain selling the worst goop. [02:50]
asciilifeform my brain melted the first time i learned that many folks in usa can't really make themselves eat actual food [02:51]
asciilifeform and only feel the least bit comfortable eating the recycled kind [02:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform see, now tell me this : how does teh ussa follow teh expat masse ? shadow fuhrer directs it ? [02:53]
decimation I had a similar experience when I went to italy on holiday [02:53]
mircea_popescu or is it just, like the gestapo, simply the only shared figment of their infertile imaginations ? [02:53]
asciilifeform there's a great ru line from, i think, 'dog's heart' [02:53]
asciilifeform something like 'decay isn't this old witch who walks around, it's you and i having bad aim and missing the pisser' [02:53]
decimation in the major italian tourist cities, the 'inner ring' around the tourist sites are full of restraunts that are obvious chumpatrons targeting usians and germans [02:54]
mircea_popescu there's fruit, and it's grandiose. then there's "fruit", imported by supermarkets for the usian market. you can get quite startling contrasts by buying in both. [02:54]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'Что такое эта ваша разруха? Старуха с клюкой? Ведьма, которая выбила все стекла, потушила все лампы? Да ее вовсе и не существует. Что вы подразумеваете под этим словом? […] Это вот что: если я, вместо того, чтобы оперировать каждый [02:54]
asciilifeform вечер, начну у себя в квартире петь хором, у меня настанет разруха. Если я, входя в уборную, начну, извините за выражение, мочиться мимо унитаза и то же самое будут делать Зина и Дарья Петровна, в уборной начнется разруха. Следовательно, р [02:54]
asciilifeform азруха не в клозетах, а в головах. Значит, когда эти баритоны кричат «бей разруху!» — Я смеюсь. […] Клянусь вам, мне смешно! Это означает, что каждый из них должен лупить себя по затылку! И вот, когда он вылупит из себя всякие галлюцинации и [02:54]
asciilifeform займется чисткой сараев — прямым своим делом, — разруха исчезнет сама собой. Двум богам служить нельзя! Невозможно в одно время подметать трамвайные пути и устраивать судьбы каких-то испанских оборванцев! Это никому не удается, докто [02:54]
mircea_popescu o.O [02:55]
asciilifeform р, и тем более — людям, которые, вообще отстав в развитии от европейцев лет на 200, до сих пор еще не совсем уверенно застегивают свои собственные штаны!' [02:55]
mircea_popescu you'll get docked for spam! [02:55]
decimation mircea_popescu: I assume you saw this article [02:55]
assbot Inside the food industry: the surprising truth about what you eat | Life and style | The Guardian ... ( ) [02:55]
asciilifeform i suppose i gotta translate it now [02:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50099 @ 0.00039606 = 19.8422 BTC [+] {3} [02:55]
decimation "The strapline for a product called Butter Buds®, described by its makers as “an enzyme-modified encapsulated butter flavour that has as much as 400 times the flavour intensity of butter”, sums it up in six words: “When technology meets nature, you save.”" [02:55]
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asciilifeform problem is, 'разруха' doesn't translate. [02:55]
mircea_popescu decimation i think it was here. i didn't care to check it out. [02:55]
decimation it's as depressing as you would think [02:55]
asciilifeform approx. 'ruin' but also shades of 'decay', 'decline', general civilizational degringolade [02:56]
decimation "Over the past few years, the food industry has embarked on an operation it dubs “clean label”, with the goal of removing the most glaring industrial ingredients and additives, replacing them with substitutes that sound altogether more benign." "If you noticed that it contained an amino acid such as L-cysteine E910, your enthusiasm might wane, especially if you happen to know that this additive can be derived from animal and human [02:57]
decimation hair. But a range of new-wave yeast extracts is increasingly replacing E910. " [02:57]
mircea_popescu decimation there's a reason i don't live in "civilised" shitholes. i can taste their "feasts of engineering". [02:57]
mircea_popescu anyway, everything in that world devolves to spam, it's one and only true mother. [02:57]
decimation new! "contains" "natural" "ingredients"!! it's profitable for us and "ok" for you [02:57]
mircea_popescu "labels limit the shitification of food ? SPAM THEM!" [02:58]
mircea_popescu money prevents us from being stupid ? SPAM IT! [02:58]
mircea_popescu pretty much the only thing the west ever does is, "try and spam it!" [02:58]
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mircea_popescu somehow the world should be impressed with this "progress", much in the manner parents should be impressed with "look, no hands!" [02:58]
decimation it smacks of 'all voice, no exit' [02:59]
mircea_popescu not to mention the "all metaconsiderations, no agency" [02:59]
mircea_popescu prolly the same exact fundamental. [02:59]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: << passable 'pro' translation [03:00]
assbot ... ( ) [03:00]
asciilifeform not mine [03:00]
decimation yeah in fact the reason the us succeeded as it were for the first hundred years was because there was much empty virgin territory, so people could 'express agency' [03:00]
mircea_popescu the story of individual america is basically one line : "there's no difference between the rich man and the poor man who hasn't yet decided what to buy". [03:00]
mircea_popescu as if. but somehow, a billion idiots picked this bit of shoeshiner's philosophy as their foundational line. [03:00]
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mircea_popescu lettuce all sit forever and ponder the implications of asking the girl out, of measuring the fucking crystals, of spitting on the ant. [03:03]
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mircea_popescu draw up the entire putative history eight nine steps removed in all directions, till the night comes and we go home. [03:03]
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* asciilifeform still thinks the crystal thing made perfect sense in light of protagonist not being ready to 'fork physics' [03:04]
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mircea_popescu better men later on. [03:05]
mircea_popescu but it's inescapable. everything's getting forked. gpg, linux, the world. [03:05]
asciilifeform we, in spite of the sweat required, are the lucky fellas. [03:06]
asciilifeform because don't need, at least for most of that list, $maxint [03:07]
asciilifeform but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ? [03:07]
asciilifeform build out of scrap iron in cellar ? [03:07]
* assbot removes voice from kyuupichan [03:08]
asciilifeform it is also not entirely clear to me where the 'better men' are to get the $b [03:09]
asciilifeform and why they might like to throw it into a strongly -ev pit [03:09]
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asciilifeform fact is, 'basic science' is -ev when viewed through the lens of a typical human lifespan [03:09]
gabriel_laddel "measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange" [03:10]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151550 @ 0.00041401 = 62.7432 BTC [+] {2} [03:10]
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decimation asciilifeform: "-ev" < it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck' [03:13]
decimation in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research [03:13]
gabriel_laddel nein nein nein nein! [03:14]
asciilifeform any who are inclined, as mircea_popescu seems to be, to think that 'any idea can be tested and developed in your cellar' should study the history of semiconductor [03:14]
gabriel_laddel ;; google John Von Numann [03:14]
gribble John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; John von Neumann | Institute for Advanced Study: ; History of Computing Science: John von Neumann: [03:14]
asciilifeform which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product [03:14]
gabriel_laddel ;; google manhattan project [03:15]
gribble Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; The Manhattan Project []: ; Manhattan Project | United States history | Encyclopedia Britannica: [03:15]
gabriel_laddel ;; google symbolics inc [03:15]
gribble Symbolics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; : The first and oldest registered domain name on the ...: ; Symbolics, Inc.: [03:15]
gabriel_laddel ;; google Leonardo Da Vinci [03:15]
gribble Leonardo da Vinci - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Leonardo da Vinci - Biography - Writer, Mathematician, Inventor ...: ; Leonardo Da Vinci - The complete works: [03:15]
gabriel_laddel It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo [03:15]
gabriel_laddel and countless derps before that [03:16]
decimation gabriel_laddel: who was the 'herri seldon' who foresaw the development of leonardo? [03:16]
decimation er, 'hari seldon' [03:16]
gabriel_laddel decimation: afaik, no one predicted leonardo, but there were three generations of masters preceding him. He learned from their works [03:17]
gabriel_laddel my point is that science does not advance "at random" [03:17]
gabriel_laddel nor because of "cranks" [03:17]
decimation but the earlier masters couldn't have predicted the results of their erudition [03:18]
gabriel_laddel of course not [03:18]
gabriel_laddel but that doesn't make it random [03:18]
gabriel_laddel can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like? [03:19]
gabriel_laddel we know sorta-kinda how it is going to function, but I expect to be pleasantly surprised [03:19]
decimation I'm not using the word 'random' to mean 'acausal' [03:19]
asciilifeform << obligatory thread re: cranks [03:19]
assbot Logged on 05-03-2014 23:06:12; asciilifeform: the 'time microscope' thing is typical of aging inventors who, by virtue of being cut off from competent peers (either by having none alive, or being on the wrong side of a jail of one kind or another) [03:19]
asciilifeform 'crank' in this context is really anyone who 'forks science' and ends up an army-of-one [03:20]
asciilifeform happily chugging along on his lonesome blockchain [03:20]
asciilifeform (or not so happily, as the case may be) [03:20]
decimation sometimes this happens in unconnected pairs [03:20]
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* ben_vulpes checks to see if a > 1mb block is floating around [03:29]
gabriel_laddel and sometimes it happens through e.g., MIT, Stanford, library of Alexandria, Manhattan Project [03:30]
gabriel_laddel "it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck'" [03:30]
gabriel_laddel ^ I don't see that this is true. [03:31]
decimation what 'basic science' did the manhattan project advance? [03:31]
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gabriel_laddel the effective use of computing machines iirc [03:31]
gabriel_laddel (is this 'basic science'? What is basic science?) [03:32]
gabriel_laddel (conceptually basic, atoms and the like, or basic in the sense of a starting point that is eventually abandoned, e.g., alchemy) [03:33]
gabriel_laddel is that science? [03:33]
asciilifeform basic in the sense of maximally distant from applications. [03:33]
asciilifeform e.g., boolean algebra in the lifetime of g. boole. [03:33]
asciilifeform in the same sense as the base of a tower is the point maximally far from its tip. [03:34]
asciilifeform and on which the rest of the tower - stands. [03:34]
gabriel_laddel [03:34]
assbot math is art | "Discovery is the privilege of the child: the child who has no fear of being once again wrong, of looking like an idiot, of not being serious, of not doing things like everyone else." — Grothendieck ... ( ) [03:34]
gabriel_laddel ^ here is a blog I've not gotten around to reading yet [03:34]
gabriel_laddel this girl was given 100k by Pete Thiel to think. [03:35]
gabriel_laddel she is doing category theory and physics research. [03:35]
gabriel_laddel Does this qualify? will she produce anything of interest? I don't yet know. [03:35]
gabriel_laddel Christopher Olah, Thiel fellow. Does research on conv. neural networks. [03:36]
gabriel_laddel is this basic science? [03:36]
asciilifeform he also funded mr mold's crap. [03:36]
gabriel_laddel and? [03:36]
asciilifeform 'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush [03:36]
decimation it seems to me that basic science is something that is only obvious in distant hindsight [03:37]
gabriel_laddel my point is that this is an organized effort [03:37]
gabriel_laddel and organized effords have existed in the past [03:37]
gabriel_laddel they will exist in the future, assuming we don't end up glassing the whole planet [03:38]
gabriel_laddel 'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush << [03:38]
assbot Logged on 28-02-2015 04:19:51; mircea_popescu: if you ask the slut, often enough it's because "he's the only one that asked, and i was getting bored" [03:38]
asciilifeform in that sense, the ubiquitous state lottery is also 'organized effort' [03:38]
asciilifeform thus far i know of no particular reason why thiel picked the folks he did [03:39]
gabriel_laddel (he is attempting to fund basic science) [03:39]
asciilifeform except for a vague 'flavour' of 'up&coming young' [03:39]
asciilifeform and he is, in that sense, continuing the tradition of the equally boring 'mcarthur prize' [03:39]
gabriel_laddel I'm not saying that I beneficiary agree with Thiel's funding decisions, but I am pointing out that there are people attempting to fund basic science, and that there are two specific people I've cited who can be vetted for their contributions. [03:40]
asciilifeform (can you name, off the top of your head, a single person who was given the prize - which is intended to set promising young thinkers free from workslavery) who amounted to anything ? [03:40]
gabriel_laddel Christopher Olah [03:40]
asciilifeform no idea who that was [03:40]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ? <<< i thought it was 50k. [03:41]
asciilifeform 50k for the might-work calorimetric variant [03:41]
decimation so did the swiss patent office 'organize' to advance physics by paying einstein in exchange for clerk-serfdom? [03:41]
gabriel_laddel [03:41]
assbot Archives - colah's blog ... ( ) [03:41]
asciilifeform decimation: no because serfdom [03:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform understand, i'm not proposing anyone's obliged to follow any particular flight of fancy. [03:41]
mircea_popescu but the proposition that one shouldn't or understandably wouldn't for it may turn out to be just fancy... that's nonsense. [03:42]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: and to what does that thing amount ? [03:42]
mircea_popescu this is the very stuff of life, following our flights of fancy. [03:42]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: what would we lose if it never happened [03:42]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i did try to convince the fella. [03:42]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: well, in Chris's case, some research on neural networks [03:43]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i recall. [03:43]
gabriel_laddel In Rin's case, idk yet [03:43]
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asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: i confess that thiel's experiment would be considerably more interesting if it were 100m not 100k [03:44]
mircea_popescu incidentally... olah is kinda how hungarians say romanian. [03:44]
mircea_popescu corruption of valah [03:44]
asciilifeform 100k buys half a garage where i live [03:44]
gabriel_laddel A summary of my points. 1) there are some people attempting to fund basic science 2) I don't agree with all of their funding decisions 3) this isn't the first instance of this occuring in history [03:44]
asciilifeform and two garages in alaska [03:44]
asciilifeform but then he'd actually need a proper heuristic for choosing his 'soldiers' [03:45]
mircea_popescu but thiel wants web2.0 not a new nuke. [03:45]
asciilifeform and he hasn't a prayer, and knows it [03:45]
gabriel_laddel 4) perhaps the fault lies with those attempting to peruse basic science, for not giving him a heuristic [03:45]
mircea_popescu specifically for that reason, yes. [03:45]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: find someone whose heuristic isn't 'give it to -me-' [03:45]
asciilifeform and then talk to thiel [03:45]
mircea_popescu lol [03:46]
asciilifeform i'd guess that many folks can't even think about this subject without their brain melting from rage [03:46]
asciilifeform 'why should -this- piece of shit get 100k to enjoy life, while i sit on this stake...' [03:46]
mircea_popescu << of course. meanwhile the last attempt by some other kids to pretend this is the case just imploded ? [03:46]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 06:05:50; gabriel_laddel: "measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange" [03:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i suspect the idea wasn't that, but to educate thiel so he's less of a schmuck. [03:47]
mircea_popescu people with money they don't know what to do with are the very definition of schmuckdom [03:47]
gabriel_laddel ^ yup [03:47]
asciilifeform i'm not certain that it is possible to give him a heuristic good enough that he can ditch 'r-strategy' and go with 'k-strategy', to use the zoologist's terms [03:47]
gabriel_laddel if you watch thiels videos in particular you can see that he wants to fund interesting things but doesn't know how [03:47]
mircea_popescu << this is necessarily true, it directly flows from the definitions of the words you use. [03:48]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 06:09:13; decimation: in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research [03:48]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel or what they are. or how to look for them. essentially he's a girl that'd like to fuck but never heard of clothes, or make-up or going out. [03:48]
gabriel_laddel lol I know [03:48]
mircea_popescu thiel the nubile savage. [03:48]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: he's stuck relying on 'legitimate' communities of 'domain experts' and is doomed to never see anything of genuine interest, which is 100% on crank islands [03:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform dude gtfo, nobody said management is required to be illiterate. [03:49]
gabriel_laddel Eh, I read his startup notes, he has a brain. [03:49]
gabriel_laddel and uses it [03:49]
mircea_popescu but not an education. [03:49]
* mircea_popescu quotes newman : [03:50]
gabriel_laddel it remains to be seen if he'll grok bitcoin. if he does, he'll probably end up funding interesting things. [03:50]
mircea_popescu "the education which gives a man a clear conscious view of his own opinions and judgments, a truth in developing them, an eloquence in expressing them, and a force in urging them. It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought, to detect what is sophistical, and to discard what is irrelevant." [03:50]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: think of how you, yourself, came upon al schwartz's thing [03:50]
gabriel_laddel yes? [03:50]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: was it by speaking with 'legit' physicists ? [03:50]
gabriel_laddel No. [03:50]
* mircea_popescu gleefully notices how alf is now using the "you yourself" device. [03:50]
asciilifeform or with anyone to whom they might give the time of day? [03:50]
gabriel_laddel Nope. [03:51]
asciilifeform it was by hanging with sewer rats [03:51]
gabriel_laddel lemme find the video [03:51]
gabriel_laddel one sec [03:51]
asciilifeform brown, grizzled, with monstrous teeth, no ? [03:51]
mircea_popescu in this line : "oh mp must be insane to spend all his time on irc, if i was rich i'd do [???]". [03:51]
asciilifeform would thiel read, e.g., my site ? [03:51]
asciilifeform for all the platinum-iridium toilet in the world ? [03:51]
gabriel_laddel he might [03:51]
asciilifeform nope. and you can take that to the bank [03:51]
gabriel_laddel and you know this how? [03:52]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform what's the matter with it, you writing with different letters or something ? [03:52]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel, mircea_popescu: simply pointing out that most fiat 'barons' are more like herr buffett than mircea_popescu [03:52]
mircea_popescu but not for any structural reason, is the important point. [03:53]
asciilifeform for the structural reason of preferring their familiar private kitchens to a sewer hatchway [03:53]
asciilifeform that leads to hell knows where [03:53]
mircea_popescu whether most women in x population are more like californians or saudis has nothing to do wit ha cunt being a cunt. [03:53]
asciilifeform and smells funny [03:53]
ben_vulpes i'd guess that many folks can't even think about this subject without their brain melting from rage << a good eighth of my time is spent talking smart young guys down out of a shartup-inspired rage attack [03:53]
gabriel_laddel Youtube doesn't have grep, and I'm not going to troll through all these videos to find the one I'm thinking of. In any case, in one of them he states that "scientists have been replaced with baccarats" and that "MOOCs are not going anywhere" [03:53]
gabriel_laddel vaguely related [03:54]
assbot Peter Thiel Was Right - YouTube ... ( ) [03:54]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes it's pretty "disruptive" alright, huh. "what are we disrupting ?" "the moral fiber of society" [03:54]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel actually moocs are the superlative american college. [03:54]
gabriel_laddel baccarats -> bureaucrats [03:54]
* ben_vulpes goes to buy a bottle of wine to fuel the ruby rage [03:55]
* asciilifeform was actually trying to picture casino game [03:55]
mircea_popescu << i have my doubts about this "productive" perspective. [03:55]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 06:11:21; gabriel_laddel: It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo [03:55]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i appreciated your point about hating programming recently [03:55]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform gabriel_laddel i just parsed it as "a weird way to say mountebanks" [03:55]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i'm not even fully certain if i hate only programming specifically or work in general [03:56]
gabriel_laddel 06:54 << becuase american college sucks [03:56]
mircea_popescu well... because it's "universal". once no kid's left behind, the boat's not sailing anywhere. [03:56]
mircea_popescu the very fucking point of academia is to sail away. [03:56]
gabriel_laddel Yep. Which is my point. Thiel has detected this. [03:57]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: thiel's spewing trendisms to work your hindbrain [03:57]
gabriel_laddel Is he here in #b-a? No. [03:57]
ben_vulpes work requires only energy. [03:57]
ben_vulpes programming requires obscene mental contortions. [03:57]
ben_vulpes oh and dealing with the output of people who "like it". [03:57]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: if he was spewing trendisms he'd be /supporting/ the MOOCs [03:57]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i was speaking of work in the economic sense rather than physical [03:57]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel there are two threads here. one is "thiel is dumb". this is not being entertained. the other is, "thiel's uneducated". this is my position. [03:57]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: he's selective re: which trendisms to employ [03:57]
asciilifeform so as to work your hindbrain. [03:58]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'll add a third [03:58]
mircea_popescu << if memory serves industrial productness was no part of the discussion. [03:58]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 06:10:30; asciilifeform: which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product [03:58]
asciilifeform which is that herr thiel is operating on an understanding with the folks who allow him to exist [03:58]
mircea_popescu we're at the "known for a long time" hurdle yet. [03:58]
asciilifeform that precludes certain things, and requires others [03:58]
mircea_popescu that's a null hypothesis. [03:58]
mircea_popescu for instance i said null hypothesis as part of a deal with my brain to allow me to continue to exist. [03:59]
asciilifeform lol! [03:59]
asciilifeform let's make it concrete [03:59]
mircea_popescu (by nh i mean, a statement which has no content) [03:59]
asciilifeform what do you suppose would happen if herr thiel decided to pump every penny he had into buying btc ? [04:00]
asciilifeform how far would he get before 'having problems' [04:00]
mircea_popescu indefinitely far. [04:00]
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asciilifeform would the folks who can zero his bank balance by pressing a button, let btc climb to 100k usd ? [04:00]
mircea_popescu in your craziest models you don't have a hitler lizard tribe capable to handle such sudden bends of activity. [04:00]
asciilifeform or use a ten cent bullet [04:00]
gabriel_laddel WE DONT KNOW [04:00]
mircea_popescu what you describe is a what, 3 sigma event ? there's not a plan in place for two sigma events even. banal shit like "they used plane as rocket" [04:01]
asciilifeform this is more along the lines of the mircea_popescu article where 'buffett is not actually rich because his dollars can't be sent to isis' [04:01]
asciilifeform ^ which is entirely true, imho [04:02]
mircea_popescu so far my bitcoins are getting sent to the btc bears lol. [04:02]
mircea_popescu anyway, whatever would happen would come as a surprise to everyone, including in no particular order : a) the people running btc-usd exchanges ; b) you ; c) the friendly usg log reader delegate ; d) isabelle boring or w/e her name is ; etc [04:04]
mircea_popescu what WAS that chick's name ? [04:04]
asciilifeform unless i catastrophically misunderstand, ^ the bears inevitably get the coin unless a fully bitcoinized supply chain materializes for mircea_popescu and others to use [04:04]
mircea_popescu ;;google boring miss florida congressional aide made a derpy "bitcoin chamber of commerce" [04:04]
gribble No matches found. [04:04]
mircea_popescu sigh. [04:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, i meant the berkshire bet. [04:05]
asciilifeform ah [04:05]
* asciilifeform confesses that he wondered if the purpose of that bet was not necessarily to win, but to soften a target [04:05]
asciilifeform that is, to exhaust the resources of folks tasked with arranging mircea_popescu losing it [04:05]
mircea_popescu << this shit's so lulzy. [04:06]
assbot Bitcoin Press Center | A global media center for bitcoin ... ( ) [04:06]
mircea_popescu and wtf is "" anyway [04:06]
asciilifeform ;;calc sqrt(11) [04:07]
gribble 3.31662479036 [04:07]
asciilifeform ^ it [04:07]
gabriel_laddel 10:37 - who is that with Thiel, could it be the evil racist Charles Murray? [04:08]
gabriel_laddel debating on the /same side/?!?!?! [04:08]
gabriel_laddel That's not respectable at all! [04:08]
mircea_popescu anyway, back to the intelligence vs education thing. i wish i had words to express my meaning in intelligible english. let's try by saying that a good mark of one's education is what sort of thing he fills his space with. [04:08]
* asciilifeform won't give a damn if thiel appears with watson and putin also [04:09]
mircea_popescu "but honey, you can't marry this guy. his parents have no library in the house!" [04:09]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: this is, as far as I can tell, roughly the equivalent of reading your blog. [04:10]
* hktud0 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [04:10]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: lol nope. [04:10]
gabriel_laddel ? [04:10]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: you don't need to open a sewer hatchway to get to herr murray [04:10]
asciilifeform or watson, or putin [04:10]
mircea_popescu Charles Murray, 1st Earl of Dunmore ?! [04:10]
mircea_popescu what murray is this ? [04:11]
asciilifeform they're mainstream 'guiding lights', albeit - in the degenerate anglo world, with a 'minus' sign [04:11]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: [04:11]
asciilifeform nah the other one [04:11]
assbot Charles Murray (political scientist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( ) [04:11]
asciilifeform aha him [04:11]
mircea_popescu "Charles Alan Murray (born 1943) is an American paleoconservative and paleolibertarian leaning political scientist, author, columnist, and pundit." [04:11]
mircea_popescu what's "paleo" mean in wikipedia ? [04:11]
mircea_popescu he doesn't eat bread with conservatives ? [04:12]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: so wait, would visiting e.g., Schwartz qualify for "stepping into the sewer" [04:12]
asciilifeform it would [04:12]
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asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: try to see the pattern here [04:13]
decimation mircea_popescu: roughly, 'conservative' in america today means 'republican', which also means 'pro-state' [04:13]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: I gotcha [04:13]
gabriel_laddel finally. [04:13]
mircea_popescu so paleo is anti-state ? [04:13]
decimation not exactly, but he wouldn't be invited to any parties at cpac [04:13]
mircea_popescu do words have any meanings whatsoever anymore ? [04:13]
mircea_popescu THIS is a fine example of what i fucking mean by educated. [04:14]
asciilifeform murray put his hands firmly on the 'third rail' in usa [04:14]
mircea_popescu it doesn't matter how intelligent us kids are. [04:14]
mircea_popescu in that cesspool they can't be anything but louts. [04:14]
decimation mircea_popescu: modern us politics is a sandpile built upon equivocation [04:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you need a full body containment suit just to survive as a thinking man here. [04:14]
mircea_popescu as opposed to what, finance ? [04:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: preferably with closed filtration cycle [04:14]
mircea_popescu or to wha texactly. erotica ? [04:14]
mircea_popescu what part of english as a single language ISNT perpetual and universally equivocal synonymy [04:15]
mircea_popescu Murray's Law: [04:15]
mircea_popescu 1. The Law of Imperfect Selection: Any objective rule that defines eligibility for a social transfer program will irrationally exclude some persons. [04:15]
mircea_popescu 2. The Law of Unintended Rewards: Any social transfer increases the net value of being in the condition that prompted the transfer. [04:15]
mircea_popescu 3. The Law of Net Harm: The less likely it is that the unwanted behavior will change voluntarily, the more likely it is that a program to induce change will cause net harm. [04:15]
mircea_popescu ok, that much makes sense. [04:16]
mircea_popescu no idea why this'd be "murray's law", but at least i see something. [04:16]
gabriel_laddel !s cognitive dissonance [04:17]
assbot 16 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : [04:17]
gabriel_laddel the US is fucking insane [04:17]
mircea_popescu 1. Any rule applied uniformly over a group with a view to some purpose will result in measurable contradiction of the purpose before it results in measurable achievement of the purpose. [04:17]
gabriel_laddel people try codifying common sense to make it more palatable - doesn't work [04:17]
decimation generally, my understanding is that 'paleoconservatives' want to wind us society back to something resembling the 'cis-democracy' in that moldbug peice [04:17]
mircea_popescu 2 is good as is. [04:17]
mircea_popescu 3. too. [04:17]
mircea_popescu cool. [04:17]
mircea_popescu for the record, the earl dunmore was pretty cool too. [04:18]
decimation one of murray's books advanced the idea that the ruling us elite were cutting asunder all social mores and strictures that bound the masses [04:19]
* PinkPosixPXE (IdentUdent@2607:5300:60:69b1::1337:babe) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:19]
mircea_popescu i dun think this is controversial. [04:19]
asciilifeform one of the mega-lulz re: 'paleoconservatives' is that most of these folks (that i've had the fortune of reading) struggle with a mental bug - they yearn to roll back to some known-good state where various old-school religions were still strong, but don't personally subscribe to them [04:19]
decimation while they silently keep those mores alive amoung themselves [04:19]
asciilifeform and openly profess to wish for a pill that would 'turn them catholic' or whatnot [04:20]
asciilifeform mr mold once confessed that he might like an 'islamization pill' [04:20]
decimation george will sort of fits that description [04:20]
asciilifeform i, (in my mental card catalogue, naturally) call this 'the green pill' [04:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform basically they yearn to be women. [04:21]
asciilifeform adjunct to blue & red already in the pharmacy we know [04:21]
asciilifeform (green for the colour of the prophet's banner, naturally!) [04:21]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu has it [04:21]
decimation oh, murray also co-authored 'the bell curve' [04:22]
decimation which controversially asserted that jews were smarter than blacks [04:22]
mircea_popescu how did the ets do ? [04:22]
asciilifeform based, iirc, on longitudinal (that is, lifetime progress) study of children, esp. adopted cross-ethnically at birth [04:22]
asciilifeform the conclusions of which, interestingly, none of the establishment types bothered to attack directly [04:23]
asciilifeform because it was bulletproof [04:23]
* gabriel_laddel *gasp* [04:23]
asciilifeform instead they had to declare murry a public enemy and 'hitler' [04:23]
decimation no, but they strongly 'taught the controversy' [04:23]
asciilifeform aha [04:23]
mircea_popescu how many children ? [04:23]
asciilifeform ~13,000 [04:25]
asciilifeform iirc [04:25]
mircea_popescu almost respectable. [04:25]
mircea_popescu i was all prepared to hear 300 and say "rubbish" [04:26]
asciilifeform it wasn't rubbish. [04:26]
asciilifeform that's why the solid wall of bullshit built around the subject by usg [04:26]
asciilifeform almost impenetrable by the idly curious [04:26]
mircea_popescu ftr, i dun actually credit the race/intelligence theory. not that i have strong feelings either way [04:27]
asciilifeform visit a university library; 'bell curve' is a little brick, the 'refutations' - a book case and climbing [04:27]
mircea_popescu but the whole thing strikes me like an attempt to establish a link between female beauty and hair color. [04:27]
decimation one datapoint "“The NLSY, administered in 1980 to by far the largest sample (6,502 whites, 3,022 blacks) in a national study, found a difference of 1.21 standard deviations on the AFQT.”" [04:27]
decimation AFQT means 'armed forces qualifying test' [04:28]
mircea_popescu if iq tests worked we'd have usable software. [04:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: can work without being any more than 'dismal science' [04:28]
asciilifeform that tells you just how fucked you are [04:28]
gabriel_laddel if iq tests worked we'd have usable software. << see symbolics inc [04:28]
mircea_popescu wait wut !? [04:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as i gather, intelligence is only slightly heritable, but stupidity - is very [04:29]
mircea_popescu lol. [04:29]
mircea_popescu intelligence, in a strict sense of whatever, bus speed ? bus width ? ram ? cpu cycles ? frequency of parity errors ? [04:29]
asciilifeform as are a thousand mental dysfunctions most of which haven't even a name [04:29]
asciilifeform !s myelin sheaths [04:29]
mircea_popescu is really the small part of the discussion. thiel is smart, and it doesn't help him [04:30]
assbot 2 results for 'myelin sheaths' : [04:30]
asciilifeform ^ i had a physical, testable hypothesis [04:30]
mircea_popescu yes. [04:30]
asciilifeform check back in 10,000 years when the cockroaches replace us [04:30]
asciilifeform they'll test. [04:30]
mircea_popescu well... "testable" . you gotta kill people. [04:30]
asciilifeform i don't expect it tested in mouse or man in own lifetime [04:30]
asciilifeform 'too much fun' [04:31]
mircea_popescu << your point actually fails under its own weight. are fractals random ? [04:31]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 06:13:09; gabriel_laddel: my point is that science does not advance "at random" [04:31]
gabriel_laddel no [04:31]
mircea_popescu it advances at random to a random degree, is the thing. [04:31]
decimation from the book: “In any case, you are not going to learn tomorrow that all the cognitive differences between races are 100 percent genetic in origin, because the scientific state of knowledge, unfinished as it is, already gives ample evidence that environment is part of the story. But the evidence eventually may become unequivocal that genes are also part of the story. We are worried that the elite wisdom on this issue, for years [04:31]
decimation almost hysterically in denial about that possibility, will snap too far in the other direction. It is possible to face all the facts on ethnic and race differences in intelligence and not run screaming from the room: That is the essential message.” [04:31]
mircea_popescu which actually means a very good quality random. [04:31]
mircea_popescu decimation does it at any place say what it deems intelligence to be, this book ? [04:32]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no, but it does go into the subject of stupidity [04:32]
mircea_popescu not a very good book eh. [04:32]
gabriel_laddel << neat, working software, with the foundations built by high IQ individuals [04:32]
assbot LiveCoding in CommonLisp. - YouTube ... ( ) [04:32]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's a perfectly good epidemiological work. [04:32]
mircea_popescu why does it define stupidity and make statements about intelligence ? should stick to stupidity. [04:33]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: eww opengl blackbox [04:33]
* asciilifeform saw five seconds, saw enough [04:33]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel it occurs to me the templeos guy is kinda high iq [04:33]
asciilifeform see also link to classic thread re: 'cranks' coming 'untethered' [04:34]
asciilifeform for good or ill [04:34]
gabriel_laddel ^ [04:34]
asciilifeform terry davis doesn't have to answer to a grant committee [04:34]
mircea_popescu lmao wtf was this, monkey @ lisp term ?! [04:34]
asciilifeform and ends up with certain things, some interesting, some not, with a heavy flavour of jizzus jizzm [04:34]
asciilifeform i, in his place, would come up with something quite else [04:35]
asciilifeform you - yet else [04:35]
asciilifeform etc [04:35]
mircea_popescu i dun see what "in his place" would mean. [04:35]
asciilifeform his 'thiel fellowship' came from usg. [04:35]
asciilifeform starvation pension, but enough to keep his computer lit [04:35]
gabriel_laddel !s langton's ant [04:35]
assbot 9 results for 'langton's ant' : [04:35]
gabriel_laddel "what is intelligence?" [04:36]
mircea_popescu "like beauty, but for men" [04:36]
gabriel_laddel haha yeah [04:36]
mircea_popescu srsly. [04:36]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'his place' - thinking man who found, by accident or otherwise, an escape hatch from arbeit macht frei [04:36]
mircea_popescu i dun follow ? [04:36]
asciilifeform he doesn't have to work a day job [04:37]
mircea_popescu so then im in his place ? [04:37]
asciilifeform aha [04:37]
mircea_popescu and you aren't ? [04:37]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: perianne. [04:37]
asciilifeform nope [04:37]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes bless you. [04:37]
decimation the book has a whole chapter on the subject of defining intelligence [04:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform because you HAVE to ? [04:37]
mircea_popescu decimation anything good ? [04:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha [04:37]
mircea_popescu or just teachin' the controversy [04:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: to keep the lights on [04:37]
gabriel_laddel monkey @ lisp term ?! << outside of that, have you ever seen any program written as "fluidly"? Which comes back to the original discussion of "what is intelligence" [04:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform mayhap that needs work ? [04:37]
decimation but essentially ends up with the 'classical' theory, which is 'this statistical thing that tends to pop out reliably on these tests' [04:37]
gabriel_laddel "why prefer incremental compilation over batch?" [04:38]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel i dunno, i dun tend to spy on people writing code that much, i'm prolly the most ignorant in the room on that score. [04:38]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wai wat ? [04:38]
gabriel_laddel because its prettier [04:38]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the "have to". if you were writing software it'd be a magic variabler. [04:38]
asciilifeform iirc i described the kinds of thing i do for living.. [04:39]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, that's not it. if i were in prison, would i HAVE TO be in prison to keep the lights on ? [04:39]
mircea_popescu ie, would it be my job ? [04:39]
asciilifeform in ru prison circa 1951 - aha, job. want to eat? dig [04:40]
mircea_popescu just then ? [04:40]
asciilifeform (or, if very talented, beat another fella into digging your share) [04:40]
asciilifeform just then << 'peak stalin' [04:40]
mircea_popescu my point being, your have to is weak. not to any personal effect, but it does ruin our theory. [04:40]
asciilifeform after he croaked, that kind of thing was - at least on paper - somewhat curtailed [04:41]
mircea_popescu << the important point here is that causes not purposes. [04:41]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 06:14:45; gabriel_laddel: can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like? [04:41]
mircea_popescu for all i care the wot world can result in the sky combusing. [04:41]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is true in that, technically, i could cough up tomorrow's lottery number and play and then 'not have to' and no physical law prevents it [04:41]
mircea_popescu combusting* [04:41]
asciilifeform but this is not an algorithmic soluton. [04:41]
asciilifeform *solution [04:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform or learn to eat air. or w/e. [04:41]
asciilifeform aha air [04:41]
asciilifeform unbeatable taste [04:41]
mircea_popescu well... maybe templeos guy did ? [04:41]
asciilifeform not according to his account [04:42]
mircea_popescu and he'd know. [04:42]
asciilifeform he gets usg pension. [04:42]
mircea_popescu because the first thing fish mentions is the water. [04:42]
asciilifeform i've no reason to doubt the fact of it [04:42]
asciilifeform plenty of folks do - simply that most of them don't write oddball os [04:42]
mircea_popescu if facts were facts debates would be silent observances. [04:42]
* Dr-G3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [04:43]
asciilifeform must confess, i don't know him in person [04:43]
* Dr-G3 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:43]
asciilifeform but his self-portrait isn't in any way stretching belief [04:43]
mircea_popescu did i ever tell you about the naked gypsy girl ? [04:43]
asciilifeform gets small pension from usg, lives alone in tiny flat, eats little [04:44]
asciilifeform hm? [04:44]
mircea_popescu took some ppls to see the enchanted gypsy palaces in turda (romania). which, you know, are pretty elaborate. [04:44]
mircea_popescu took a wroing turn, ended up on mud street from 1750. down towards us, completely naked 9yo girl, rope tied around her waist. literally rope. [04:45]
mircea_popescu everyone's aghast. [04:45]
mircea_popescu but barefoot girl in the mud aside : she probably had parents, who similarly had to work to keep the lights on. [04:45]
mircea_popescu in the shape of the sun, i guess. [04:45]
decimation someone had to shape the mud into huts [04:46]
asciilifeform unless the gurl photosynthesizes - yes, they have to, or starve. [04:47]
mircea_popescu no these are literally palaces. [04:47]
mircea_popescu lemme dig something up here [04:47]
asciilifeform what 'work' means in the gypsy palace, i haven't any notion [04:47]
mircea_popescu ;;google palate tiganesti turda [04:47]
gribble Palatele tiganesti din Buzescu - YouTube: ; case de tigani - YouTube: ; palatul lui Juliano radu - YouTube: [04:47]
asciilifeform but whatever it is they do to keep the trucks coming [04:47]
mircea_popescu see the pics / whatevs. [04:47]
decimation at any rate, the "iq" thing seems more useful when applied on the population level [04:47]
asciilifeform derivatives trading? [04:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform a long array of things, all more or less coney. [04:48]
decimation it might not tell you who to hire next, but it would explain why nobody in the city you are visiting has heard of plumbing [04:48]
asciilifeform or why 400 years of plumbing school at gunpoint had no effect [04:48]
asciilifeform decimation has it. [04:48]
mircea_popescu decimation would it now ? seems more a function of where htey were born, if they heard of plumbing or not. [04:49]
gabriel_laddel omfg [04:49]
asciilifeform (by 'plumbing' here mean 'not shitting where you drink') [04:49]
decimation aye [04:49]
mircea_popescu i doubt this is inborn. [04:49]
decimation wow those really are palaces [04:49]
mircea_popescu yes. and you should see the insides, furs and shit. it's really very azn [04:50]
asciilifeform complete with wall carpets? [04:50]
mircea_popescu always good for a culture shock for usians, because somehow they think starbucks is luxury. [04:50]
decimation is this what they do with all the coins they manage to scrape together? [04:50]
mircea_popescu meanwhile these dudes fuck on tiger fur. [04:50]
mircea_popescu decimation well, some of those were built out of begging, some out of scrap metal theft, some out of who knows what. [04:51]
asciilifeform eh betcha it's been deluxurized by chinese tiger farms [04:51]
asciilifeform but basic point stands [04:51]
mircea_popescu anyway, i was cheating a little ( << original article where scene above is described). it just so happens that in that culture, kids are supposed to be naked pre puberty. [04:52]
assbot Nuditatea la copii si sugari pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [04:52]
asciilifeform described in, among other places, orlov's [04:52]
asciilifeform '5 stages' [04:52]
mircea_popescu but point remains : what man HAS TO do is never clear. [04:52]
asciilifeform (he takes a strange fixation with the gypsies) [04:52]
decimation my usian upbringing causes me to conjure some dude living in a hovel or a wagon upon hearing 'gypsy' [04:52]
mircea_popescu decimation in fairness, most do. these are the rare exceptions not the bulk. recall orwell's "jew makes a dollar a day" thing [04:53]
asciilifeform i can picture that if mircea_popescu ever opens a jail, all of the cages will open from the inside with a 32-bit combination lock. nobody will 'have to' sit in this jail [04:53]
mircea_popescu quite. [04:54]
asciilifeform can always open the lock, no ? [04:54]
mircea_popescu 32 bit may be a little short. [04:54]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 6**27 [04:54]
gribble 1023490369077469249536 [04:54]
asciilifeform this, incidentally, might be a fairly good 'business model' [04:54]
mircea_popescu 6 letter lock. [04:54]
gabriel_laddel "let me tell you a story about a mouse I caught in a field..." [04:54]
asciilifeform in that the occasional escaped maniac is outweighed by the folks who will sit for decades flipping digits [04:55]
mircea_popescu incidentally : this would be a great prison. judge doesn't give you a term. judge gives you a frequency count. [04:55]
asciilifeform aha [04:55]
mircea_popescu you can get out once you're industrious enough. [04:55]
asciilifeform i came up with this based on the more well-known 'schrodinger jail' [04:55]
mircea_popescu 1:1024*2 for theft. [04:55]
decimation plus the prisioners would be occupied with something, instead of scheming how to spray bodily fluids on whoever happens by the slot [04:55]
asciilifeform where you get a probability spread as sentence [04:56]
asciilifeform and get days off your term for playing 'russian roulette' [04:56]
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mircea_popescu !up shesek [04:56]
-assbot- You voiced shesek for 30 minutes. [04:56]
* assbot gives voice to shesek [04:56]
asciilifeform decimation: aha, that'd be the point [04:56]
mircea_popescu lmao fucken dyslexia [04:57]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 27**6 [04:57]
gribble 387420489 [04:57]
mircea_popescu i was thinking wtf that many ?! [04:57]
* asciilifeform was thinking 'which six letters' [04:57]
asciilifeform and 'why 27 of'em' [04:57]
decimation another variant: all the prisoners play 'WoW' - upon gaining some princely sum of gold they can be freed [04:58]
asciilifeform decimation: sop in china [04:58]
mircea_popescu this is how china does it already. [04:58]
decimation hehe yeah [04:58]
mircea_popescu "rate jail best on ijail 5bn times, walk free!" [04:58]
asciilifeform except afaik they do 'get to eat' instead of 'walk free' [04:59]
decimation maybe someone should make a bitbet for the date of the appearance of an official usg 'game' [04:59]
mircea_popescu how'd you specify it. [05:00]
asciilifeform 'america's army' [05:00]
asciilifeform or some other kind of game meant here ? [05:00]
mircea_popescu wasn't it "army of one" ? [05:00]
asciilifeform [05:00]
assbot America's Army ... ( ) [05:00]
ben_vulpes skinned counterstrike or some such? [05:01]
* mircea_popescu half expects to find some bad retailer on the other end [05:01]
decimation the purpose of the game would be to 'sink' hours of the otherwise idle usg employees [05:01]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes nah, zynga something. [05:01]
asciilifeform iirc it was freeware [05:01]
mircea_popescu "america's army products community" yep right on. [05:01]
asciilifeform 3d 'shooter' where you had to 'pass bootcamp', dig pits, die in ten minutes of firefight dropping like potato, etc [05:02]
asciilifeform 'realism' [05:02]
asciilifeform was commissioned as a recruiting gimmick [05:02]
mircea_popescu "About Rin I’m Cathe(rin)e Ray." not bad. [05:03]
asciilifeform [05:03]
assbot America's Army: Proving Grounds Beta on Steam ... ( ) [05:03]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel i sent her an email. iron a shirt in case shows up. [05:04]
mircea_popescu << is it me or it's mostly guys and mostly white ? [05:05]
assbot ... ( ) [05:05]
gabriel_laddel Not just you. [05:06]
gabriel_laddel Also, lots of asian males. [05:06]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: these are the only folks for whom there isn't already $maxint in handouts [05:06]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel azn as in indian, but not chinese. [05:07]
gabriel_laddel nah, some Chinese, Vietnamese too [05:07]
gabriel_laddel but yes, there are a lot of indians, which I didn't previously notice [05:08]
mircea_popescu and blondy in black dress over there's almost hawt. [05:08]
mircea_popescu well... good for em. [05:08]
gabriel_laddel (these being from the previous generations) [05:08]
mircea_popescu "Alum and current fellows have produced more than $100 million in economic activity including investments, exits, revenue, and grants. " [05:09]
mircea_popescu uh. [05:09]
gabriel_laddel I, with the devil's own smile, invite them to take pictures [05:09]
mircea_popescu "Fifty-eight organizations and startups have been founded by fellows, employing over 200 people, and creating new technologies that are being deployed around the world." [05:09]
gabriel_laddel "If we show up at the border with That We're going straight to prison!" [05:09]
gabriel_laddel ahahahaha [05:09]
mircea_popescu wait, there's 40 people a year right ? [05:09]
gabriel_laddel (From MPs gypsy girl story) [05:09]
mircea_popescu so basically they employ themselves ? [05:09]
gabriel_laddel yeah [05:09]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel truth. [05:10]
gabriel_laddel most of the companies are just pathetic in practice [05:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the u.s. military technical term for this is 'self-licking icecream cone' [05:10]
asciilifeform !s self-licking [05:10]
gabriel_laddel the neat people in the Thiel fellowship are the mathematics kids, who are sort of the odd ones out [05:10]
assbot 10 results for 'self-licking' : [05:10]
* mircea_popescu was a recipient of something vaguely similar at a similar age. [05:11]
mircea_popescu it doesn't do much. [05:11]
asciilifeform because it's a temporary parole, for one thing [05:11]
asciilifeform if someone sent me 100k (magically, tax-free) i'd do... what? take 3 mo. off, spend the next 9 looking for next gig ? [05:12]
gabriel_laddel 2 years to play with Mathematics sounds wonderfully useful to me. [05:12]
decimation you could ration it slowly if you lived in rural kansas [05:12]
mircea_popescu ah, i a) didn't actually need the money ; b) wasn't really about the money per se anyway [05:12]
gabriel_laddel well, in truth the Thiel fellowship doesn't even give it all away at once [05:13]
gabriel_laddel which is fucking stupid [05:13]
mircea_popescu no, it's not. [05:13]
gabriel_laddel they want them to play nicely with the world [05:13]
gabriel_laddel fuck that [05:13]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: play nicely ? [05:13]
mircea_popescu best way to get a bright kid killed is by giving him ten bricks of benjamins. [05:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what, he buys bazooka ? [05:13]
asciilifeform what if getting killed with honour is precisely what he wanted and needed [05:13]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: they don't want them to e.g., make a napster [05:14]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: wai wut [05:14]
asciilifeform i thought that was the point [05:14]
gabriel_laddel they dole it out a month at a time [05:14]
asciilifeform make something thiel-flavoured [05:14]
gabriel_laddel and check up on you [05:14]
asciilifeform aha so kommisars. [05:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform kids. they'll find something to do. [05:14]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: i didn't think the thiel thing could get -more- snoreworthy [05:14]
asciilifeform but evidently i was wrong! [05:14]
gabriel_laddel hehe [05:14]
mircea_popescu omg you buncha antisocial haters. you can't have a mentor or anything ? [05:15]
gabriel_laddel it seems to me the model is to find smart, angry people, fund them and then when things go to shit, stand behind them and keep them out of trouble. [05:15]
mircea_popescu da fuck are some kids gonna suffer from talking to adults ? [05:15]
gabriel_laddel but I don't know anything [05:15]
decimation what's wrong with enslaving yourself to someone better? [05:15]
asciilifeform decimation: nothing - it's called army [05:15]
asciilifeform if they dole it out month at a time - it's a fucking -job- [05:16]
gabriel_laddel the 'adults' are not going to be happy about you writing a program that converts all books in + all papers you can get of school networks into a useful format via a combination of OCR and heuristic hackery [05:17]
gabriel_laddel which would actually be useful [05:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's called an annuity! [05:17]
mircea_popescu which is the better way to get a windfall anyway. [05:17]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's a job if you gotta do xxxxx to keep'em coming [05:17]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel how do you know this, sight unseen ? [05:17]
asciilifeform and avoid doing yyyyy [05:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform how do you know this ? [05:18]
asciilifeform only from gabriel_laddel's summary thus far [05:18]
ben_vulpes and blondy in black dress over there's almost hawt. << reminds me of the intro line newcomers to pdx-burningman were subjected to without fail for years, presumably if the political correctness mob hasn't gotten to them yet still are: "are you hot?" [05:18]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: know what in particular? [05:18]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel thgat the adults are not going ot be happy. [05:19]
gabriel_laddel Oh, I've teh insider information [05:19]
mircea_popescu ah. [05:19]
asciilifeform i for one would like to know if any thiel folks have been 'fired' [05:19]
mircea_popescu you know blondy, too ? [05:19]
asciilifeform and if so, for what. [05:19]
asciilifeform i bet they're NDA'd etc. but if you turn the screws, can probably find out. [05:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not a bad approach. [05:20]
gabriel_laddel ^ I know of one in particular... [05:20]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes both genders ? [05:21]
gabriel_laddel He presented someone else's program as his own. They didn't check, being fuckwits, but eventually found out. [05:21]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: everyone. [05:21]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: i bet you could toss 19 out of 20 of'em for this [05:21]
ben_vulpes portland's a moderately kinky town. [05:21]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel why the fuck would he do that. [05:21]
asciilifeform almost invariably 'high powered' kids in usa are simply cribbing mindlessly [05:21]
asciilifeform ask a college prof [05:21]
gabriel_laddel being a poorfag [05:21]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes seems harmless enough. [05:21]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: sets the tone, you know? [05:22]
* decimation to bed [05:22]
decimation !down decimation [05:22]
* assbot has kicked decimation from #bitcoin-assets (Bye.) [05:22]
ben_vulpes if someone sent me 100k (magically, tax-free) i'd do... what? take 3 mo. off, spend the next 9 looking for next gig ? << good grief your burn rate, man. [05:22]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes at least his harem isn't 40k a month! [05:23]
mircea_popescu and what IS burning man but fuck club ? [05:23]
asciilifeform did i ever tell the tale of how i was once about to do a little consulting for an engineering prof, and discovered that the code that implemented 'his' algo was plagiarized wholesale by his students? [05:23]
asciilifeform and that the same happened again after he fired the first set and replaced entire staff ? [05:23]
asciilifeform cribbed from public domain libs, quite unrelated to the actual project, passed off as 'new' [05:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you didn't end up beaten as a result of this ? [05:24]
* mircea_popescu pictures kramer @ karate class. [05:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i had to refuse the client [05:24]
asciilifeform which was painful because he was a family friend and a man i respected [05:24]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: is that *your* harem's burn rate? [05:24]
asciilifeform but he tried to convince me to participate in a sc4m4tr0n [05:24]
asciilifeform knew about the 'little problem' and said nothing when commissioning the work [05:25]
asciilifeform thought i wouldn't find out. [05:25]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes nah merely reference to a discussion in logs a few days ago [05:25]
ben_vulpes !s 40k [05:25]
assbot 93 results for '40k' : [05:25]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform btw, what's the objection to macarthur prizes ? [05:25]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no objection as such, aside from 'gimme' [05:26]
mircea_popescu 125k a year for five years, beats thiel, but anyway [05:26]
mircea_popescu ah [05:26]
asciilifeform just that none of the folks involved, afaik, coughed up anything i'd miss if it were thermonuked [05:26]
asciilifeform all summed to zero. [05:26]
mircea_popescu imo it's pretty well designed. [05:26]
* assbot removes voice from shesek [05:26]
asciilifeform designed to what ? [05:26]
mircea_popescu wolfram guy got it, didn't he ? [05:27]
asciilifeform iirc he was already rich from scamming [05:27]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:cdbd:393e:aeae:591) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:27]
asciilifeform that is, cribbed 'macsyma' and passed off as own work [05:27]
* asciilifeform doesn't like sc4mz0rz [05:27]
mircea_popescu anyway, for 500k, enough respectable names there. [05:28]
asciilifeform yes but how many respectable -after- the prize and not before [05:28]
asciilifeform as in, not at all before [05:28]
asciilifeform street urchin [05:28]
mircea_popescu more than half. [05:29]
mircea_popescu Klainerman << fine example. [05:30]
asciilifeform did he need it ? [05:30]
asciilifeform or would've been golden with or without [05:30]
mircea_popescu romanian immigrant post revolution [05:30]
mircea_popescu whadda ya think ? [05:30]
asciilifeform hm. [05:31]
ben_vulpes what's wrong with enslaving yourself to someone better?, decimation: nothing - it's called army << do reconsider la serenissima in this light [05:31]
* asciilifeform not insisting it had a 0% coefficient of useful work [05:31]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: when do i get to die in a tank [05:31]
asciilifeform and can it be a t-34 [05:31]
mircea_popescu Norman Manea << another fine example. [05:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc the way it worked (works? i think, still exists?) is via a kind of secret wot [05:32]
asciilifeform which means that these folks weren't total islands [05:33]
mircea_popescu o look daniela rus too [05:33]
mircea_popescu no srsly, it's 3/3 so far. [05:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yup. which is why i had a vague positive idea about it. never bothered looking. [05:33]
mircea_popescu but now that i did look, it seems clearly that the thing works. [05:33]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: this is not the war you grew up idolizing. it's war, which means it's going to be horrible and unpleasant for all involved. [05:33]
asciilifeform it has same problem as the aids test [05:33]
mircea_popescu MUCH better than the buffett out. "i leave my money to bil lgates" [05:33]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: it's got death, no ? [05:34]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: 'sexy' or not [05:34]
ben_vulpes so you claim. [05:34]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes btw, daniela rus should be right up your alley. [05:34]
mircea_popescu self reconfigurin robots etc [05:34]
asciilifeform same problem as aids test meaning here, that i'm much more interested in the folks left bugling in the dark [05:34]
asciilifeform and i use extant academia as an antiwot [05:34]
asciilifeform i.e. if you can get printed there, you're suspect [05:35]
asciilifeform (at the very minimum - of being a snore) [05:35]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i'm actually pretty disgusted with "modern" "robotics" [05:35]
asciilifeform ^ [05:35]
gabriel_laddel ^^ [05:35]
ben_vulpes a) it's all usg "tin woman" crap [05:35]
mircea_popescu mebbe look into this one ? [05:36]
ben_vulpes i'll *keep* looking [05:36]
ben_vulpes cursory inspection reveals nothing interesting. [05:36]
asciilifeform wake me up when a roboticists asks me for the waveguide motor [05:36]
ben_vulpes i'm more interested in underactuated systems. [05:36]
ben_vulpes map servers and massively parallel SLAM [05:36]
asciilifeform y'know, the one where you can have arbitrary jointless articulation without precision parts, lubrication, or freely moving parts at all [05:37]
asciilifeform for the cost of a length of copper cable. [05:37]
mircea_popescu afaik the woman's idea was "hey, what if we made robots capable of altering their own geometry, that way they won't have to be pre-programmed" [05:37]
mircea_popescu which is a golden thought. [05:37]
asciilifeform when somebody so much as asks, i'll believe there's life in 'robotics'; [05:37]
ben_vulpes you still have to program the meta layer. [05:37]
asciilifeform until then it's makework [05:37]
asciilifeform and cargokultism [05:37]
asciilifeform (yes i can buy a 4-axis arm from fujitsu, and it'll do same thing as in 1969, whoopie) [05:38]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes or make more of them [05:38]
gabriel_laddel ^ ascii, I've mentioned this idea to 3 people - all reject it on grounds of "it can't be that easy, my school had all sorts people working on these problems and they never thought of it" [05:38]
gabriel_laddel none took the time to test it out [05:38]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: doing any of it with mechanical articulation is a sad joke [05:38]
ben_vulpes especially and in particular the underwater stuff. [05:39]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think what was being contemplated was more akin to a synthetic amoeba than a mechanical sheep. [05:39]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik the only place the required - non-negotiably - tech exists - is in my skullcase. [05:39]
* asciilifeform did look [05:39]
mircea_popescu so how would they ask ? [05:40]
asciilifeform because i spilled it here, for one thing [05:40]
mircea_popescu may take a decade. [05:40]
ben_vulpes as a guy who's cobbled together the odd machine or two, the notion that you can have a million little bits cooperating to give you the power of a purpose-designed driveshaft one moment and slither through a keyhole the next strikes me as wankery of the first degree. [05:40]
asciilifeform for another, spilled to various folks in periphery of academwot [05:40]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes well, "cooperating". [05:40]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: what's your finger made of ? [05:40]
ben_vulpes purpose built mechanisms. [05:40]
mircea_popescu "if you're willing to pay for ten million of these, i can prove to you that in any conceivable situation no less than 3 will be useful to your purpose" [05:41]
ben_vulpes several joints, some tension mechanisms and some springs. [05:41]
mircea_popescu and good math to show it, too [05:41]
ben_vulpes grey goo pipe dreams. [05:41]
mircea_popescu anyway, this is a great convo but bed's better, so! tomorrow. [05:41]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [15:23]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [15:23]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [15:23]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [15:23]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [15:24]
thestringpuller good afternoon mr. popescu [15:24]
mircea_popescu hey [15:24]
thestringpuller how are you? [15:24]
mircea_popescu not bad. [15:24]
asciilifeform [15:27]
assbot Detienen a una mujer por masturbarse en el cine con 50 sombras de Grey . La Verdad ... ( ) [15:27]
mircea_popescu pr piece. [15:28]
asciilifeform ^ was my guess [15:28]
mircea_popescu so fucking transparent by now. you seen the buzzfeed "great idea" ? [15:28]
asciilifeform surprising that this isn't a more common tack for these [15:28]
asciilifeform "great idea" << nope [15:29]
mircea_popescu they created permanent sessions for users, showed some a dress like so, others a dress like something else [15:29]
mircea_popescu then idiot usians had debates about the true dress and the biological causes of not seeing it right [15:29]
mircea_popescu because they're, by now, this fucking stupid. [15:30]
mircea_popescu i could scarcely conceive of an experiment to more convincingly verify the "our audience is entirely worthless" theory. it's verified alright. [15:30]
asciilifeform wai wat [15:30]
mircea_popescu [15:31]
assbot The Dress: La explicación del vestido que cambia de color genera más de 27 millones de visitas [15:31]
mircea_popescu there, to keep to the es theme. [15:31]
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mircea_popescu !up lrak [15:34]
-assbot- You voiced lrak for 30 minutes. [15:34]
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mircea_popescu !up mogreen [15:34]
-assbot- You voiced mogreen for 30 minutes. [15:34]
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mircea_popescu !up nijotz [15:34]
-assbot- You voiced nijotz for 30 minutes. [15:34]
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mircea_popescu !up so [15:35]
-assbot- You voiced so for 30 minutes. [15:35]
* assbot gives voice to so [15:35]
mircea_popescu !up Stellarflip [15:35]
-assbot- You voiced Stellarflip for 30 minutes. [15:35]
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mircea_popescu !up tsoulus [15:35]
-assbot- You voiced tsoulus for 30 minutes. [15:35]
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mircea_popescu !up yrashk [15:35]
-assbot- You voiced yrashk for 30 minutes. [15:35]
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mircea_popescu ;;later tell gabriel_laddel argentina has a fixation on electing newspaper men. mitre, frondizi, etc. [15:38]
gribble The operation succeeded. [15:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.0003877 = 10.7781 BTC [-] {2} [15:41]
mircea_popescu << i played it maybe two years ago, was a decent diablo clone. [15:41]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 16:09:30; punkman: weird economy [15:41]
punkman the crafting's kinda fun [15:41]
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mircea_popescu << i found one before too! your bot's like broken. [15:43]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 17:03:26; BingoBoingo: Ah jurov you found that oglaf before the bot could [15:43]
BingoBoingo !s from: oglafbot [15:44]
assbot 0 results for 'from: oglafbot' : [15:44]
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mircea_popescu [15:44]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 01:32:37; mircea_popescu: @ BingoBoingo : [15:44]
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kakobrekla BingoBoingo i think you need to cut the space there [15:49]
BingoBoingo !s from:oglafbot [15:49]
assbot 28 results for 'from:oglafbot' : [15:49]
BingoBoingo ty kakobrekla [15:49]
assbot Logged on 23-02-2015 00:47:56; oglafbot: [15:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65247 @ 0.00038578 = 25.171 BTC [-] [15:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34350 @ 0.0003848 = 13.2179 BTC [-] {3} [16:01]
mircea_popescu << it's just "poor kids in college". roughly speaking salmon to the bear. [16:01]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 17:48:00; thestringpuller: probably not your cup of tea because it is an implementation of "communitas" or rather an existential communitas as Victor Turner explains. [16:01]
mircea_popescu i don't even want to get into a discussion of how barbarously stupid they are. [16:02]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 18:10:24; punkman: totally gonna work "With a clear deadline, get everyone on board to reach a voted decision and say good bye to all the bikeshedding." [16:02]
mircea_popescu << "i have an idea... let's pay isis people to tweet anti-isis messages instead of beheading our guys. a) it worked for the idiot usians and b) it's easier to do, right ? which is what the consumers have come to expect" [16:04]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2015 18:18:36; punkman: ""We're getting beaten on volume, so the only way to compete is by aggregating, curating and amplifying existing content," Richard Stengel, under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs" [16:04]
mircea_popescu this is pretty much the entire story of the us : let's pay everyone pretend money so they pretend we're important enough to invent money. [16:05]
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mircea_popescu approximately the life plan of a sexually worthless, narcissistically superlative 15 yo priss. [16:05]
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thestringpuller mircea_popescu: "pay everyone pretend money" << reminds me of from american dad [16:12]
thestringpuller "When Francine tells Stan she wishes he hadn't spent all their savings, he says he needed to spend money to make money. Francine then says that Stan didn't make any money, which Stan says implies that he didn't spend any money either" [16:13]
mircea_popescu o.O [16:15]
mircea_popescu what's this, the simpsons theatrical release ? [16:15]
thestringpuller nah it's seth mcfarlane trolling amercians cause they're too dumb to realize what's really going on [16:16]
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BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: It's a spin off of a spin off of a spin off, because when people develop a taste for a particular shit, why not enlist more orfices to produce it [16:29]
mircea_popescu mhm [16:30]
mircea_popescu for the record, i just started writing a solution to that harry potter thing. [16:30]
asciilifeform solution? [16:30]
mircea_popescu i never read the damned books, but the challenge is interesting. [16:30]
mircea_popescu should be done in an hour. [16:30]
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BingoBoingo << Monetary system [16:42]
assbot Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 4: The Efficient Market Hypothesis ... ( ) [16:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104700 @ 0.00038341 = 40.143 BTC [-] [16:43]
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mircea_popescu . [16:51]
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mircea_popescu jurov [16:56]
assbot The Harry Potter challenge pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [16:56]
jurov orly [16:59]
mircea_popescu yeh. [17:00]
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jurov it's good. But not clear if voldemort going completely insane implies "allow Harry to evade immediate death" [17:02]
mircea_popescu he crushed the situation. [17:02]
mircea_popescu it never happened. [17:02]
mircea_popescu anyway, some comments in the general, for the aspiring writer : a) the most important weapon in the quiver of the scammer, which is what all fiction is, is misdirection. you were being misdirected into thinking harry potter should have agency by all the insistence on how he doesn't. (look up chekov's gun, while at it). the correct solution of a problem of agency is to attack the agent. [17:04]
mircea_popescu which is why it took me twenny minutes. [17:04]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: related field - stage magic [17:05]
mircea_popescu b) agency means growth. you can recast any actual situation into something that's a personal experience, and vice-versa. this is a major power. [17:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform quite. [17:05]
asciilifeform unrelated, and for aficionados only: re: the old 'integrated circuits by hand' thread: [17:05]
assbot ... ( ) [17:05]
mircea_popescu voldemort jacking off by himself to visions of a destroyed enemy is not unlike harry potter "studying magic really hard". [17:05]
asciilifeform pictured device is a half-adder [17:06]
asciilifeform when i was a boy, these were being sold, laid on carpets in the town market, right next to rabbits and dogs [17:07]
mircea_popescu i saw that kinda flea market [17:08]
asciilifeform for some reason the theft of several examples of these curios by usg from sunken submarine is still considered a deep secret in usa [17:08]
asciilifeform (ru sub, howard hughes and his record-breaking salvage boat, famous project) [17:09]
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asciilifeform if one were to read the data sheet (scan, ) will find that it had around 50-60 nSec propagation delay. which is pretty good for the period [17:11]
assbot ... ( ) [17:11]
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asciilifeform i should like to learn how these were assembled. [17:12]
asciilifeform one can safely guess that it was pants-creamingly cheap [17:13]
asciilifeform compared to american ic of the modern type, of that period [17:13]
asciilifeform also notice the em cage around the package. [17:13]
asciilifeform correction: first device pictured is a timer. second - half adder [17:14]
asciilifeform or rather, eight half-adders [17:14]
thestringpuller Full adders are cooler than half adders [17:15]
thestringpuller need dat carry bit all day erryday negro [17:15]
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asciilifeform the timer appears, on cursory reading, to be a clone of the universally known '555' [17:16]
asciilifeform but contains six of'em [17:16]
asciilifeform anyway, posted here solely for the photos of 'what if we just had very small transistors and planted them down on very fine pcb' [17:17]
asciilifeform discussed in last week's thread. [17:17]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: you don't like IC's? [17:18]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: thread was re: whether and how one could build a reasonable computer without access to ic fab or the output of one [17:19]
asciilifeform that is to say, with the ability to arrange arbitrary logical elements [17:19]
thestringpuller ah yes. log reference or search keyword? [17:19]
thestringpuller i have pondered the same thing myself [17:20]
asciilifeform [17:20]
assbot Logged on 17-02-2015 18:03:08; asciilifeform: it does no good to take extant ic fab practice and work 'down' [17:20]
asciilifeform (thread above and below link) [17:20]
thestringpuller I do wonder if we'll ever be able to print IC's without being millionaires or wholesalers. [17:21]
thestringpuller wholesellers* [17:21]
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asciilifeform thestringpuller: if interested in this subject, read - at least that - thread [17:22]
mircea_popescu jurov what is this anyway ? i thought some woman wrote harry potter ? [17:26]
mircea_popescu who's yakudskty [17:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26323 @ 0.00040124 = 10.5618 BTC [+] [17:26]
jurov !s eliezer [17:26]
assbot 4 results for 'eliezer' : [17:26]
asciilifeform !s yudkowsky [17:27]
assbot 18 results for 'yudkowsky' : [17:27]
jurov and yes, j.k. rowling aoriginally wrote it [17:27]
asciilifeform we did yudkowsky here at least five times, iirc [17:27]
jurov but herr yudkowsky was apparently upset at harry's stupidity and wrote a fanfic [17:27]
mircea_popescu i dun get it. [17:27]
mircea_popescu oh oh i c. [17:27]
asciilifeform jurov: nope. he wrote it as a propaganda device for his cult [17:28]
asciilifeform and it works [17:28]
jurov ah, that too [17:28]
mircea_popescu so ima have two things out of this. first an arguent with alf, then once laddel and the rest of the proponents of "intelligence" wake up, ima have one with them. [17:28]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: re: << So what is the "value" of interns? [17:28]
mircea_popescu so asciilifeform, do you see how the situation here maps exactly on the uncle al and the magical molecule situation ? [17:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i read the foibles of al slightly differently. more as a failure to intellectually detach from usg [17:29]
asciilifeform because, in his mind, there is no place to go [17:29]
mircea_popescu but have i just forked "the world" ? [17:29]
mircea_popescu i have no guarantee that this goes into the... canon, or w/e, fanon-type-45345 [17:29]
asciilifeform the way al saw his situation, there are precisely two choices for him - usg and its apparatchiks, and the world of unfiltered and unfundable idiot alchemists, astrologers, 'phree energy' imbeciles, and other usenet denizens which he spent all of the '90s recreationally hunting for sport [17:30]
mircea_popescu right. and here the same : paste your text as a "review", or publish it on your blog. [17:31]
asciilifeform these figures living, as they do, in 'forked worlds' [17:31]
mircea_popescu like you know, all the other blogs. [17:31]
mircea_popescu except... not. [17:31]
mircea_popescu why not ? [17:31]
asciilifeform he did publish on his www [17:31]
mircea_popescu in this perspective, al's lament reduces to tim sweeney's lament. "oh woe that not being in the wot my ideas hold no value" [17:31]
asciilifeform the thing's been there since mid '90s [17:31]
mircea_popescu well... stfu and get in the wot. nobody, NOBODY is above the intern work for a year. [17:31]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is not how this works. [17:32]
mircea_popescu the equivalent of "story published on blog" is "50k calorimetry assay" [17:32]
mircea_popescu not "also published on blog" [17:32]
asciilifeform he wants to be in the wot of the folks with the machine [17:32]
asciilifeform the bloody machine [17:32]
asciilifeform not ours. [17:32]
mircea_popescu fuck him. it's not about what he wants. [17:32]
mircea_popescu he does not want, he does. [17:32]
mircea_popescu this is the cornerstone. [17:32]
mircea_popescu people have to fucking realise, for once in their life, that a_) fuck them and b) it's not about what they want. [17:32]
asciilifeform incidentally, upon rereading last night's log, i must publish a correction [17:33]
asciilifeform i did emphatically did -not- invent or design the calorimetric test [17:33]
asciilifeform but rather the feedstock for the spectroscopic test. [17:33]
asciilifeform of similar difficulty and expense [17:33]
mircea_popescu aha [17:33]
mircea_popescu but back to the story : if your call on the y fellow is correct, he makes for an absoluely perfect model of "chemistry usg". [17:35]
asciilifeform idea being, 'me: if gravity has chiral component, consider two propellers glued back to back as 'barbell'. ought to rotate in a particular direction depending on orientation. align using electromagnetic means, infer angular momenta' al: 'here's how' [17:35]
asciilifeform *molecular 'propellers' that is [17:35]
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asciilifeform not, of course, macroscopic ones [17:35]
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asciilifeform 'barbell' rotates if propellers face in same dir [17:36]
chetty [17:36]
assbot Google wants to rank websites based on facts not links - 28 February 2015 - New Scientist ... ( ) [17:36]
asciilifeform but if not - bond strain increases - which you can also measure [17:36]
asciilifeform chetty: based on phacts [17:36]
mircea_popescu chetty this has been going on for a while actually. [17:36]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: re: [17:37]
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thestringpuller ^- didn't he end up eating green eggs and ham at the end of the book? [17:37]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: [17:38]
asciilifeform ^ l33t w4r3z [17:38]
asciilifeform and, spoiler: sure he did [17:38]
chetty chetty this has been going on for a while actually.//it just sounds worse when the internet is a public utility [17:38]
mircea_popescu hehe [17:39]
mircea_popescu but seriously, wikipedia is returned because "fact:wikipedia is what we promote" rather than any "algorithmics" [17:39]
mircea_popescu and so are plenty of other things. the guardian and washpo and the rest of the buzzfeed carrion crawlers aren't up there because they favorably compete with qntra on some sort of machine basis [17:39]
mircea_popescu they're just "facts". [17:40]
mircea_popescu and once i get my hands around their throats, the "facts" will be slightly divers. [17:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.BBET] 25000 @ 0.000065 = 1.625 BTC [-] [17:51]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: << even if you don't know ru, you may find this interesting for the diagrams. use and engineering manual to famous ru 'igla' ('needle') rocket. [17:52]
mircea_popescu in other news, [17:52]
assbot Physical Examination of the Vulva, Vagina and Cervix in the Mare - Towcester Equine Clinic - YouTube ... ( ) [17:52]
asciilifeform afaik no analogous american document exists in open literature [17:52]
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cazalla punkman: re: path of exile, i like that the economy is based around orbs (at least it was when i was playing) but i quit after my hardcore char died in lower 90s [17:56]
cazalla for anyone that has not played it, orbs act a little similar to soj economy, but unlike d2, poe did away with gold drops and crap like that, pure barter system [17:57]
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thestringpuller the soj economy was rigged! [18:00]
thestringpuller cazalla: was a dooper [18:00]
thestringpuller !!!!! [18:00]
thestringpuller jkjk [18:00]
thestringpuller but srsly soj economy was so annoying. the rune economy was a bit better [18:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00040124 = 1.0031 BTC [+] [18:02]
cazalla i didn't play much lod which from memory brought runes [18:02]
cazalla i tried to sell orbs for btc in poe 2 years ago but noone had heard of bitcoin except 1 guy [18:02]
thestringpuller baal runs made it easy to get that XP [18:04]
thestringpuller just sit in corner level up [18:04]
thestringpuller then go magic find on meph runs [18:04]
thestringpuller LoD was dope [18:04]
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cazalla thestringpuller, poe map runs > baal runs [18:08]
cazalla it's one thing they did really well but i think poe made it more noob friendly [18:08]
thestringpuller D2 was kinda like crack. You played it, didn't know why, and before you knew it you were hooked. [18:08]
cazalla problem with playing D2 from australia was that you could still only get dialup and it was better to play on a fake hosted at your isp [18:10]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32500 @ 0.00039199 = 12.7397 BTC [-] [18:15]
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mircea_popescu "Background for non-transhumanists: [18:28]
mircea_popescu Transhumanists are not fond of death. We would stop it if we could. To this end we support research that holds out hope of a future in which humanity has defeated death. Death is an extremely difficult technical problem, to be attacked with biotech and nanotech and other technological means. I do not tell a tale of the land called Future, nor state as a fact that humanity will someday be free of death - I have no magic [18:28]
mircea_popescu al ability to see through time. But death is a great evil, and I will oppose it whenever I can. If I could create a world where people lived forever, or at the very least a few billion years, I would do so." [18:28]
mircea_popescu lmao this fucktard. [18:28]
mircea_popescu why are all these driven nuts so mentally simple anyway ? [18:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's bait [18:29]
asciilifeform he's no imbecile, but cynical bastard who knows exactly what he's doing [18:29]
mircea_popescu if it is or if it isn't... [18:29]
asciilifeform ancient device of immortality 'jam tomorrow' promise [18:29]
asciilifeform reworked for homo redditicus [18:29]
mircea_popescu so he's another modlbug. what difference does it make ? still simple. [18:29]
asciilifeform simple bait, works. [18:30]
mircea_popescu besides the point., [18:30]
mircea_popescu "why are you spending your time with cockroaches ?" "i kill them" "yes. but you're still spending time with them." [18:30]
asciilifeform ^ life of programmers [18:30]
mircea_popescu imagine the horror of this. "i invented a machine which lets you live on for a billion years, so you can write stupid shit so that stupid people keep on powering it" [18:31]
mircea_popescu said every literary hack ever. [18:31]
mircea_popescu anyway. if there's anyone who actually had the patience ot read all this stuff and wishes to proffer a summary please do. [18:32]
asciilifeform [18:33]
assbot Logged on 18-11-2014 15:38:39; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu with regard to the 'abuse of statistical devices' outlined in note iii, the accomplished master of the art is a fellow named yudkowsky (search #b-a log). he isn't an idiot, bastard knows exactly what he's doing, and his cult is a veritable vacuum trap for thinking folks [18:33]
mircea_popescu i see the guy's been pouring out a coupla million words, which is more than moldbug, but i won't be bothering to actually read the shit, it's too stale. [18:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha. [18:33]
thestringpuller CLOUD << at least I'm not him [18:42]
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ben_vulpes asciilifeform: "igla" << why must you torture me [18:47]
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ben_vulpes there's no reason why these things should cost $MAXINT, aside from the prohibition on owning the constituent materials for any not favorite son. [18:50]
ben_vulpes ugh your paradigms are infectious. [18:50]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: homo redditicus << can I use this in future qntra articles? [18:50]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: IFF mechanism << another application for asymmetric crypto. [18:53]
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ben_vulpes asciilifeform: gorgeous diagrams. thank you. [18:55]
thestringpuller [18:58]
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danielpbarron !up indiancandy1 [19:20]
* assbot gives voice to indiancandy1 [19:20]
thestringpuller danielpbarron: you must be omnitwitteraware [19:21]
thestringpuller second bb posted my article was downstaires getting moar beer [19:21]
thestringpuller i see "You have 1 new twitter mention" on my phone [19:21]
thestringpuller lolol [19:21]
* danielpbarron shrugs [19:22]
indiancandy1 thanks daniel [19:22]
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cazalla oh.. no scoopbot : [19:31]
assbot Silbert's BIT To Trade On Pink Sheets | ... ( ) [19:31]
jurov btw have you seen the "nyse to invest to CBSE" tidbit? [19:36]
jurov [19:37]
assbot NYSE, USAA and BBVA Make $75M Coinbase Investment | ... ( ) [19:37]
jurov !t m d.cbse [19:38]
assbot You had the last Philistine. This one's mine. [19:38]
jurov lol, assbot ate it [19:39]
jurov The total raised by Coinbase has now hit $106 million. Coinbase, a San Francisco-based company reports that there are 2.1 million bitcoin wallets from a customer base of 1.9 million [19:40]
jurov ;;calc 106/1.9 [19:41]
gribble 55.7894736842 [19:41]
jurov ^ per chump [19:41]
indiancandy1 oi [19:42]
cazalla jurov, yeah that's old news now [19:42]
jurov haven't seen it discussed here [19:42]
jurov maybe i miss something but D.CBSE looks attractive [19:42]
cazalla i think BingoBoingo wrote that up if memory serves [19:43]
thestringpuller jurov: attractive to short? [19:43]
BingoBoingo Old news, being repeated because google news sucks [19:43]
jurov you don't believe they can IPO it at > 46 million? [19:44]
jurov that's what D.CBSE price implies [19:44]
thestringpuller jurov: haven't they raised in the 100's of mn? [19:46]
jurov yes [19:46]
thestringpuller SF, prosperity built on fake money. [19:47]
jurov so if they manage to IPO coinbase, it can raise so much, no? [19:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24666 @ 0.00039445 = 9.7295 BTC [+] {2} [19:48]
thestringpuller they'd have to raise more than their "implied valuation" right? like 100 mn+ ? [19:48]
thestringpuller so early investors can exit cleanly, aka the FB IPO scam. [19:48]
jurov For D.CBSE long investment to be even, it needs "only" $46m IPO or buyout [19:48]
jurov at current btcusd [19:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14984 @ 0.00040351 = 6.0462 BTC [+] {2} [19:49]
jurov and i'm curious why mircea thinks that won't ever happen [19:49]
thestringpuller risky cause who knows if they ever IPO... [19:49]
thestringpuller or get bought out. [19:49]
jurov imo they can't afford to wait either [19:50]
jurov (they=the bezzle investors) [19:50]
* assbot removes voice from indiancandy1 [19:51]
thestringpuller jurov: what if the bezzle investors don't care tho? [19:51]
thestringpuller you do bring up good question tho: what is the bezzle investors endgame (or what they have in mind at least)? [19:52]
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jurov waterfall operators definitely care [19:53]
jurov yes, maybe they want just to drive it to the ground [19:53]
jurov i dunno, just asking. and don't want to tie more bitcoins for indeterminate time in D.CBSE, either. [19:54]
mircea_popescu !up indiancandy1 [19:55]
-assbot- You voiced indiancandy1 for 30 minutes. [19:55]
* assbot gives voice to indiancandy1 [19:55]
thestringpuller if company is run into ruins (i.e. MtGox) is moot issue [19:55]
indiancandy1 hi mp [19:55]
mircea_popescu you don't believe they can IPO it at > 46 million? << you realise this round was utterly dillutive right ? [19:56]
mircea_popescu 75mn with btc at 250 means 300k extra btc worth of shares. [19:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14539 @ 0.00038341 = 5.5744 BTC [-] [19:58]
jurov yes, dilutive.. on other side, it increased the number of people interested to inflate it beyond all reason and then release it [19:59]
mircea_popescu right. [20:00]
mircea_popescu just because of btc/usd vagaries, the original investment (which happened at 1200) lost 85% of its value. [20:00]
mircea_popescu that's what D.CBSE price implies << actually, no, the price implies they can't sell for over 350k btc at the time they sell. [20:02]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: gorgeous diagrams << that thing contains perhaps 80% of the info required to construct the rocket. [20:02]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the algorithmics are not described in great detail, but the waveforms representing the proportional-control mechanism are shown, and at this point the 'multicopter' folks have rederived all of it and then some [20:03]
asciilifeform very basic maths [20:03]
jurov they can't sell for over 350k btc.. << or else? you'll keep selling as many D.CBSE as necessary? [20:04]
mircea_popescu suppose in 2020 coinbase lists on nyse, 100mn shares, and they go for 50 bux each. that's 5 bn. [20:04]
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mircea_popescu suppose at the same time btc/usd trades for 18`560 [20:05]
mircea_popescu at that point, the coinbase listing has actually been a net loss for d.cbse holders. [20:05]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes: some of the more interesting stuff is in the text - e.g., description of the molten-electrolyte battery; the sensor cooling system; the guidance loop per se [20:08]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i'll add that the document is in fact a textbook for detachment commanders operating the rocket [20:11]
asciilifeform published by tomsk politechnik university press [20:11]
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asciilifeform similar textbook for a cannon: [20:14]
mircea_popescu jurov as an example, if someone bought 100 shares on mpex today at the 0.239 price paying 23.9 btc, he would control (if memory serves) 1% of the 1% f.derp stake in the origial coinbase. that'd entitle him to 0.01% of the value of 50/350 parts in the coinbase ipo, which would come to [20:14]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 5000000000×50÷350×0.0001 [20:14]
gribble Error: invalid syntax (, line 1) [20:14]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 5000000000*50/350*0.0001 [20:15]
gribble 71428.5714286 [20:15]
mircea_popescu 71k usd is a great return for a 24 btc investment, [20:15]
asciilifeform (yes, mircea_popescu would probably point out that it is not a cannon, but a heavy machine-gun.) [20:15]
mircea_popescu provided coinbase goes to 5bn while btc stays under [20:15]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 71428.5714286 / 23.9 [20:16]
gribble 2988.64315601 [20:16]
mircea_popescu otherwise, if coinbase opens for a mkt cap of 250mn in two years (accounting for inflation, basically)... [20:17]
mircea_popescu anyway, the utter chilling of d.* trade past while shows kinda plainly where that ship's going, imo. [20:19]
jurov i see [20:20]
mircea_popescu obv this is just napkin calcs, a definitive version'd come out once that unicorn stomps its foot. [20:22]
mircea_popescu << remarkably unsticky, dat social media "traffic" [20:26]
assbot Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast [20:26]
jurov oh and thx for shedding the light on d.cbse [20:28]
mircea_popescu (and all this neglecting their previous round, ) [20:30]
assbot Bitcoin Company Coinbase Raising New Investment at $400 Million Valuation | Re/code ... ( ) [20:30]
mircea_popescu basically, they're trying for a usg mpex. which... hey, fine, have fun trying. [20:31]
cazalla mircea_popescu, yeah i think it was bb that said we'd be lucky to turn 1% of it into reg readers [20:32]
jurov !t m f.mpif [20:32]
assbot [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 7D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 30D: 0.000206 / 0.00020657 / 0.000207 (1750 shares, 0.36 BTC) [20:32]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: they're trying for a usg mpex. << More like Reddit MPEX [20:33]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller no. [20:33]
cazalla i thought it was a cardinal sin for it to be called anything other than MPEx? :P [20:34]
thestringpuller although coinbase is a part of the waterfall only derps utilize it. [20:34]
mircea_popescu well, horowitz and the rest of the policy vehicles are on board, so. [20:34]
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thestringpuller this doesn't mean the customer base is anything other than homo redditicus [20:35]
thestringpuller although MPex has it's idiots (see: don't think it's near the same percentages as coinbase users [20:36]
mircea_popescu i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important in this discussion. [20:37]
mircea_popescu but in other news, [20:37]
assbot ... ( ) [20:37]
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mircea_popescu and incidentally that must be a typo, 1.9mn users 2.1mn accounts. more like 190k. [20:39]
mircea_popescu seems improbable even that many actually sent the ridoinculous "kyc" paperwork. [20:39]
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mircea_popescu cazalla the "usg mpex" comment was chiefly because there's no conceivable need a webwallet operator could have for even 1mn. [20:43]
mircea_popescu somewhat mirroring the "mpex is worth a billion dollars ?!?!?!" thing. [20:44]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important << I don't but the inevitabilibty of such an endeavor (i.e., doesn't seem like a good thing [20:44]
mircea_popescu mebbe so. [20:44]
thestringpuller particularly with "those people" involved [20:44]
mircea_popescu im moreover curious if they're going to actually try and rescue the scam foundation or just make a new and "real" one. [20:44]
mircea_popescu kinda win-win situation, if they try to rescue the scam foundation they will fail, if they don't you know we scare them. [20:45]
thestringpuller what if they just let foundation die and then try again? [20:45]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller the only "people involved" by now are horowitz and the us fed. [20:46]
thestringpuller there is no endgame for them launching a foundation. [20:46]
thestringpuller or resucing existing one [20:46]
asciilifeform if there's one thing we 'know' about the undead, it is that they can walk indefinitely until physically scattered [20:47]
asciilifeform into smallish pieces [20:47]
asciilifeform consider the 'silent circle' and 'redphone' crap by the subverted zimmerman [20:47]
asciilifeform anal opening a mile wide is found? no matter, carries on exactly as before. [20:48]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: we also know undead are more "effective" when there are lots of them. [20:48]
asciilifeform [20:48]
assbot Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened. [20:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform notice how none of the coverage included a "this C round utterly dilutes naive investors from the previous B and A rounds" [20:48]
mircea_popescu heck, the B round's not even mentioned AT ALL. [20:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: because that's SOP ! [20:49]
asciilifeform also sop [20:49]
asciilifeform that'd be like coverage of an assassination describing the exact mechanical workings of the rifle [20:49]
mircea_popescu yeah well... [20:49]
asciilifeform 'and then the hammer hit the firing pin, and the...' [20:49]
mircea_popescu so some derp on reddit wanted to know "why do we even want to kill banks then" in the blockchain subversion debate. [20:50]
mircea_popescu well... this is why : so this sort of shit stops washing. [20:50]
mircea_popescu not so that random redditard can buy his porn for 0 fees. [20:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.0003979 = 15.4584 BTC [+] [20:51]
mircea_popescu ( ref) [20:52]
assbot And then she went splat! on the asphalt. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [20:52]
asciilifeform 'why spent time with roaches ?' [20:53]
mircea_popescu i eat them. [20:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37739 @ 0.00040159 = 15.1556 BTC [+] {2} [20:54]
asciilifeform chinese school, i see. [20:54]
jurov [21:07]
assbot F.MPIF February 2015 trading statement - serialized delusions ... ( ) [21:07]
cazalla mircea_popescu, for sake of thestringpuller and mine private conversation, have you ever bedded a north korean woman? [21:08]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70700 @ 0.00038261 = 27.0505 BTC [-] {2} [21:21]
gabriel_laddel !s my face is a pancake [21:23]
assbot 1 results for 'my face is a pancake' : [21:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35550 @ 0.00040421 = 14.3697 BTC [+] {2} [21:39]
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ben_vulpes very basic maths << so much so that even i did them in 'uni' [21:41]
ben_vulpes there is a reason i call this kind of document torture. [21:41]
ben_vulpes i could make these things. [21:42]
ben_vulpes but... [21:42]
ben_vulpes "one year, no distractions." [21:42]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: betcha one could do considerably better - from first principles - with modern tech [21:43]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the rocket described in the book is older than i am [21:43]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the originals didn't even contain microprocessor. [21:44]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes: and does one even need a rocket against a rotating-wing machine, or would a swarm of multicopters suffice. [21:44]
asciilifeform (disposable, of course) [21:45]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: well yes, improvements in performance and reductions in cost exercises for not even terribly alert reader. [21:45]
ben_vulpes anyways, armsmithing for the next engagements is terribly interesting and entirely impossible to do from where i am. [21:46]
ben_vulpes those who do in these parts - aren't interested in novel strategies or applications of commodity technology [21:46]
asciilifeform can still think. [21:46]
ben_vulpes dream. [21:46]
asciilifeform and write down for the ones who make it out alive. [21:46]
ben_vulpes nah. [21:47]
ben_vulpes these designs have value. [21:47]
ben_vulpes the *real* value though, is in the strategist given free reign to be creative. [21:49]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: [21:49]
assbot Logged on 17-02-2015 18:16:06; mircea_popescu: in any case, strategically speaking, it will be a lot easier, cheaper and blood-economical to unseat the fiat atrocity supporting the welfare state by destroying the "industrial" paradigm. [21:49]
asciilifeform similar discussion in old thread [21:49]
asciilifeform the rocket, just as the modern ic, was designed by and for industrial system. [21:50]
asciilifeform that is, to be produced en masse via the traditional processes for manufactured goods [21:50]
asciilifeform the opposite does not (yet) exist [21:50]
BingoBoingo Time to practice winding your own motors! [21:51]
asciilifeform one of the strongest levers of the 20th century totalitarian mega-state is air power [21:51]
asciilifeform against which there is no low-cost unindustrial counter. [21:51]
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ben_vulpes monofilament's pretty low cost. [21:51]
asciilifeform if such a thing were to exist - major problems for the owners of jet-propelled statal enforcement. [21:51]
ben_vulpes not unindustrial, though. [21:51]
asciilifeform see also, [21:52]
asciilifeform !s you and the atomic bomb [21:52]
assbot 12 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : [21:52]
asciilifeform (orwell's basic primer on the subject) [21:52]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: << what about these d00ds? [21:52]
thestringpuller i thought other big cost in rocket was d00ds in black suits showin' up and shuttin down the studio [21:52]
thestringpuller enough bezzles makes them shoo tho [21:52]
ben_vulpes thestringpuller: orthogonal. [21:53]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: it's either a usg-controlled semi-scam, or doomed to be suppressed [21:53]
asciilifeform but in both cases entirely not what i was speaking of [21:53]
asciilifeform nobody is ever building any of what is pictured on that page on anything other than a fleet-of-mazeratis budget [21:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43750 @ 0.00040618 = 17.7704 BTC [+] {2} [21:56]
ben_vulpes moreover, a largely useless project. [21:57]
ben_vulpes motor aside. [21:57]
thestringpuller << LOL "Cancelled due to bad weather" [21:57]
asciilifeform chumpatronics with physical props. [21:57]
ben_vulpes submarine was more useful. [21:57]
ben_vulpes eh, it's just some guys having fun. [21:58]
ben_vulpes what of it. [21:58]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i actually found the 'igla' article while looking for... the battery. [21:58]
asciilifeform there are certain methods of making a battery that are not used in modern consumer types [21:58]
asciilifeform single-shot and extremely expensive [21:59]
ben_vulpes i'm more interested in single-shot and extremely cheap. [21:59]
* ben_vulpes giving the whole armsmithing game away for some reason [21:59]
asciilifeform but just such a battery could make the difference between an unmanned flying machine that can deliver $thing between point a and b, say [21:59]
thestringpuller ben_vulpes: you drink bottled water don't you :P [22:00]
ben_vulpes thestringpuller: nope. [22:00]
ben_vulpes ;;google Bull Run [22:00]
gribble The Battle of Bull Run Summary & Facts | ; Bullrun: ; First Battle of Bull Run - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: [22:00]
ben_vulpes ;;google bull run reservoir [22:00]
gribble Bull Run River (Oregon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Bull Run Watershed | The City of Portland, Oregon: ; Portland's Water System | The City of Portland, Oregon: [22:00]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: if the thing's reasonably robust, a parabolic delivery trajectory should suffice. [22:00]
ben_vulpes $thing [22:01]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: not everything likes travelling via icbm [22:01]
ben_vulpes tough cookies. [22:02]
asciilifeform nor is a 300km accuracy cone acceptable for most cargo other than nuke [22:02]
ben_vulpes that's a pessimistic cone. [22:02]
ben_vulpes missing variable: delivery distance. [22:02]
ben_vulpes if it needs to go that far, put an ice on it. [22:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51538 @ 0.00040687 = 20.9693 BTC [+] {2} [22:04]
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ben_vulpes but do share your design envelope, i'm very curious what sorts of requirements you're considering that require some crazy one-shot battery. [22:04]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: ever find it interesting that there are wankatronic societies like the 'amateur space' thing linked earlier, but nobody (has admitted to) sending a 100% amateur-built unmanned machine across, e.g., atlantic ? [22:04]
ben_vulpes there are the S.A. submersibles. [22:05]
asciilifeform slow, expensive, and nobody's building one in his cellar or launching from back yard. [22:06]
asciilifeform and coasts are well-patrolled in the 'civilized' world. [22:06]
ben_vulpes lol nowhere near as expensive as their payloads are valuable. [22:06]
asciilifeform we are thinking of entirely different worlds, perhaps [22:06]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: 'well patrolled' << i'm pretty sure that 50+ sneak through for every single one busted. [22:06]
asciilifeform they pass unmolested - and the cargo travels on, on land - at lizardhitler's pleasure. [22:07]
ben_vulpes you're familiar i'm sure with the near-disposable cessna's thrown over america's southern border, stuffed to the gills with $substance? [22:07]
ben_vulpes cessnas* [22:07]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: toy store range, toy store machine [22:07]
asciilifeform and human operator. [22:07]
asciilifeform trivially radiolocatable. [22:08]
asciilifeform a 'cessna' would be a car-sized ordinary airplane, no ? [22:08]
ben_vulpes correct. [22:08]
asciilifeform aha, was still thinking of automatics [22:09]
ben_vulpes flying below ceiling at which all objects are 'trivially' observable. [22:09]
asciilifeform smugglers landing ordinary machines in sparsely-populated desert - century-old state of the art [22:09]
asciilifeform snore. [22:09]
ben_vulpes yes well do away with the $maxint vehicle cert process, $maxint operator training... [22:10]
ben_vulpes construction fundamentals are well understood, automatics well understood (granted by fewer people)... [22:10]
ben_vulpes i still do not see a need for this wacky battery of yours. [22:10]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: mental excursion in how 'silk road' etc. - in alternate universe where folks have brains - could have worked. [22:11]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: think this way: what country, on what continent, has sovereignty over... birds ? [22:12]
ben_vulpes the chinese! [22:12]
asciilifeform even the fabled chinese sparrows [22:12]
asciilifeform still flying. [22:12]
ben_vulpes remember when all the children went out after...yes. [22:12]
ben_vulpes batteries are still bogus. [22:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15645 @ 0.00040784 = 6.3807 BTC [+] [22:13]
ben_vulpes or maybe not! maybe i'm crazy. [22:13]
ben_vulpes maybe the trick is to leverage existing industrial commodity electrical motors and do something clever with the batteries. [22:13]
asciilifeform ^ [22:14]
ben_vulpes the power to weight ratio just *always* turns me off. [22:14]
BingoBoingo * ben_vulpes giving the whole armsmithing game away for some reason << Railgun? [22:14]
asciilifeform for batteries which don't need to be 'safe' or reusable or dirt-cheap - this changes. [22:14]
ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: that prototype never worked and has long since been consigned to my parents dustbin. [22:14]
ben_vulpes i probably didn't know enough to make it work when i attempted it. [22:15]
asciilifeform by how much, requires a very detailed study of surviving soviet literature. which i presently lack the time for. but might get back to one day [22:15]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i'd rather leverage my wot for landing sites and refuelers. [22:15]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: [22:16]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2015 18:23:10; ascii_field: humans-in-the-loop is what -every single person nailed by usg so far- had in common. [22:16]
asciilifeform ^ relevant thread [22:17]
ben_vulpes this is a strictly us problem, though. [22:18]
ben_vulpes the rest of the world doth not operate so insanely. [22:18]
ben_vulpes and why (why why why?!) must everything be about enraging the insane bear in the room? [22:19]
asciilifeform us includes pretty much the entire planet outside of ru and cn [22:19]
ben_vulpes you vastly overestimate their abilities. [22:19]
ben_vulpes didn't they just retain some 20k unseasoned mercs to go after a mob of kalash-equipped pashtuns? [22:20]
ben_vulpes give me a break. [22:20]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: objective was controlled chaos. not to remove the particular crop of (not pashtuns) [22:20]
ben_vulpes i've yet to see them achieve one thing they set out to, in my entire life of watching them ferry soldiers across the sea. [22:21]
ben_vulpes 'gulf war' perhaps aside. [22:21]
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ben_vulpes i don't buy this 'controlled chaos'. isis is a mortal threat to the us (and all client states) and they desire desperately to wipe it out. [22:23]
gabriel_laddel !s gravity well [22:23]
assbot 26 results for 'gravity well' : [22:23]
ben_vulpes implying, gabriel_laddel? [22:23]
gabriel_laddel Perhaps I'm missing something, but isn't much of the discussion in this channel based on the assumption that usg is going to fall apart? [22:23]
gabriel_laddel why, all of the sudden are they a immediate threat to a hypothetical? [22:24]
ben_vulpes this conversation is about airspace control. [22:24]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: it was quite clear in '43 that third reich would fall apart [22:24]
asciilifeform but it was also clear that it would not do so quickly or without damage to surroundings [22:24]
asciilifeform and could use help [22:24]
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ben_vulpes I need a primer on that period. [22:25]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i'm not certain that a worthwhile picture can be obtained solely in english. [22:26]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: >> l0lz [22:26]
assbot ... ( ) [22:26]
asciilifeform is that a mtgox otp generator ? [22:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29400 @ 0.00039939 = 11.7421 BTC [-] [22:27]
asciilifeform (rectangular keychain, black with gold-coloured button in center, usb male) [22:28]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Appears to indeed be a Yubikey [22:28]
asciilifeform lol! [22:28]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I'm telling you the film is a lulzmine [22:28]
mod6 who is testing a pogo currently? asciilifeform, danielpbarron and BingoBoingo? [22:28]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: can you tell me why an actual snowden would have himself filmed ? [22:28]
BingoBoingo mod6: Don't have pogo [22:29]
mod6 ok [22:29]
asciilifeform mod6: i have one; currently writing a netbsd kernel driv. for the nand flash [22:29]
asciilifeform well, by 'currently' meaning a few hrs./wk, sadly [22:29]
mod6 hows that going anyway? [22:29]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: From film it seems he was worried about "black bag" and in the event wanted martyrdom. [22:29]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: conveniently carried (red) bag? [22:30]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: "Privacy Hood" he called it [22:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.0003989 = 8.8955 BTC [-] {2} [22:31]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Used to keep lizard in the room from watching him type [22:32]
asciilifeform why would anyone use a device such as 'yubikey' for access to a man-portable machine ? [22:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32399 @ 0.00038251 = 12.3929 BTC [-] {2} [22:33]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: because... pro idiotas [22:41]
BingoBoingo Perhaps he doesn't trust his brain to "brainwallet" strong passwords [22:42]
BingoBoingo Yubikeys have been used to store fixed long passwords for local use. Just works like a USB keyboard in that case. Just... [22:43]
BingoBoingo The Man Portable machine has a keyboard [22:43]
mircea_popescu if such a thing were to exist - major problems << sure it exists. it's how the us navy lost china sea. [22:43]
mircea_popescu "you can always make a cheaper rocket" [22:44]
mircea_popescu us includes pretty much the entire planet outside of ru and cn << this is ridoinculous. [22:47]
mircea_popescu us doesn't even include fucking nebraska. [22:47]
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mircea_popescu i don't buy this 'controlled chaos'. isis is a mortal threat << more importantly, isis EXISTS because it was born out of the *previous* iteration of "we didn't really get our asses handed to us like little girls, we were really AIMING to be face down, feet in the air" [22:48]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel: it was quite clear in '43 that third reich would fall apart << is this some bit of original research ? [22:49]
mircea_popescu i seem to recall granpa churchill spinning some prime yarn bout how "and once england is defeated our realms across the sea will carry on without us" [22:50]
* assbot gives voice to chatquack [22:50]
jurov lol i remembered one denizen of Golden Lane in Prague Castle. [22:53]
jurov She was a soothsayer and prophesied a fall of the Third reich [22:53]
jurov Was taken by getapo in '43. [22:53]
jurov *gestapo [22:53]
jurov ^ dat research [22:54]
mircea_popescu up until leningrad it was not at all clear the reich will ever end, especially not from outside. [22:55]
mircea_popescu certainly not to stalin. [22:55]
mircea_popescu unrelatedly, i just ingested a quart of the world's best icecream. BEST you hear me ? [22:58]
mircea_popescu i'm burping deliciousness now. [22:58]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: that sposed to make us grape jelly? [22:58]
mircea_popescu nah [23:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00040543 = 10.6223 BTC [+] [23:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42537 @ 0.00041077 = 17.4729 BTC [+] {2} [23:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20970 @ 0.00040543 = 8.5019 BTC [-] [23:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53781 @ 0.00040963 = 22.0303 BTC [+] [23:35]
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