The crime of being American
Monday, 15 October, Year 4 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
First, this excellent illustration from Nathaniel Burney (New York defense attorney) :
Pretty good, huh ? The guy's talented.
I on the other hand am not equally talented. I'm just pissed off.
| mircea_popescu |
| Whoa WHAT THE FUCKING HELL. You can't have bird feathers ?i Fuck that bullshit country. |
| BTC-Mining |
| There's TONS of silly laws in the US |
| mircea_popescu |
| Fuck that shit. The US is a rogue state. Americans should just be executed on sight. |
| BTC-Mining |
| ... But... |
| mircea_popescu |
| A. I am going to pluck any bird I feel like ; B. I am going to make soup out of any turtle I get my hands on. Anyone doesn't like it better bring fucking enough ammo. |
| BTC-Mining |
| They can be repaired! |
| mircea_popescu |
| Who cares ? This is like the fucking zerg. |
| BTC-Mining |
| But the zergling is all cuddly, grabbing you and nibbling at your internal organs. Embrace the zergling... |
| mircea_popescu |
| No. Americans. Executed. On sight. It is now a crime to be American. |
| BTC-Mining |
| I think the crime here is politicians rushing through new laws for their public opinion. |
| mircea_popescu |
| I do not care. Fucking muppets ranting on about what the SEC bla bla ? Fuck this shit. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Also, did you know that those muppets might be making some of the criminal laws? Not all laws are voted by the representatives. Many regulations are made by expert in their fields but who have poor or no understanding of criminal law and it's intent. The website summarize the issue nicely. Although the problem of "broad/uncomprehensible laws" has been quite an issue globally, in many nations. |
| mircea_popescu |
| It does. It also explains why the United States has no room and no place in civilised society. I'm sorry (well not really), but it was just expelled. Can go hang out with Gabon, Sierra Leone and the rest. |
| BTC-Mining |
Well, you seem to be overreacting to laws being too broad in the US by creating another broad law:it is now a crime to be American. Are you sure you aren't part of the problem? |
| mircea_popescu |
| This isn't a law. This is a matter of private policy. (Really, I was mostly making a point, rhetorically.) |
| BTC-Mining |
| Eh, and I wasn't really serious, just pointing out it was a rather harsh and excessive stance. People that dare organise into such a state are hostes humani generi. Universal public enemies. |
| mircea_popescu |
| No it's not. It's perfectly commensurate with the offence. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Eh, "americans" are just born in the US, not a direct cause of everything that happens in the US |
| mircea_popescu |
| Listen, if you're part of some mob cause "you grew up into it" you still go to jail. Sword cuts both ways. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Well that would be something applied too broadly... Not everyone in the US agree with the US. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Orly. Are they paying tax to the us ? Seems to me if you pay the mob boss you're in the mob, whether you *claim* disagreement or not. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Depends on the individual. Most people in every country pays taxes. Doesn't mean they all support 100% of the state. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Yes, actually, it does, for this discussion. |
| BTC-Mining |
| I don't see how you could reasonably expect someone who object to any single law in a country to be able to move somewhere that has no rules they disagree with. Unless everyone lived in their own one-man nation. |
| mircea_popescu |
| You don't have to move. You just send them your citizenship in the mail and be done with it. Being a US citizen is a crime in itself. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Except that doesn't really work that way... |
| mircea_popescu |
| Says who ? |
| BTC-Mining |
| Since when will any government anywhere accept to take citizenship back and accept you stop paying any taxes? Tough luck on getting that through. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Not the same. You can renounce any citizenship, it's no big deal. If you're not a citizen and are paying taxes I dun care, you're not liable. I've paid taxes in maybe twenty jurisdictions so far, I don't see why anyone could claim I have anything to do with them. |
| BTC-Mining |
| How do you even renounce citizenship? You never agreed to that. The state just decided by itself to consider you a citizen based on it's own set of rules, without your accord. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Nah. You were born one. Your citizenship really predates any law other than the Consitution. People tend to forget the state is much ulterior in the process. |
| BTC-Mining |
| I try to completly make abstraction of the state/whatever is in place and consider each individual individually for their own actions and intent. Regardless of their citizenship/government. If I see they support something I don't agree with, then I object. |
| mircea_popescu |
But they are actively engaged in a criminal entreprise (the us federal government). This is over their head, uneffaceable.US data : There were between 222-235 renunciants in 2008, between 731-743 in 2009, and about 1485 in 2010; In 2011, there were 1781 renunciants. |
| BTC-Mining |
| That's like me saying you doing business like dinning out in a mob's restaurant is being actively engaged in a criminal enterprise. You have dealings with it, it doesn't mean you know or support what they do. You simply pay them for a service. Same with citizens paying taxes. I consider it payment for services. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Some may accept that argument. I do not. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Now the issue is, there will be laws you don't agree with in every country. And pretty much every country charges taxes one way or another. |
| mircea_popescu |
| I'm pretty happy with Romanian laws so far. Obviously no laws are perfect. What we're discussing here are laws that are criminal in themselves. |
| BTC-Mining |
| I'm pretty sure even if they don't abound, we could at least find a few falling under that definition of yours in Romanian laws. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Please do. I'm happy with one, actually. |
| BTC-Mining |
| I'm afraid I don't have the skills required to do such legal research. In any case, I'm satisfied so far of canadian laws, although I'm pretty sure there's plenty I just don't know of. |
| EskimoBob |
| Can a law be criminal? Probably not but it sure can be absurd and instead of protecting people it harms them. But still, can you call it criminal? |
| mircea_popescu |
| EskimoBob sure. Nazi Germany laws were criminal, and they created liability for loyal subjects of the 3rd Reich. |
| EskimoBob |
| mircea_popescu: No, they are criminal now, but not back then. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Well US laws are't criminal in the US. |
| EskimoBob |
| And most are not even criminal now days. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Well most no. But most doesn't matter in this context. Some are an' it's good enough for me. |
| EskimoBob |
| My point is, your example was a hyperbole. US laws have turned in to a pile of shit and same happens all over the world. Law is not for protecting society any more. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Nope, not the same, and not all over the world. This is just misguided jingoism. The insanity is quite speciffic to the US, with some overlap in the 51st state (UK). But yes my example was a hyperbole. Problem is, it's a matching one. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Well, yes, many countries are FAR from being in such a mess as the US. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Right. |
| BTC-Mining |
| It doesn't mean the US is unrecyclable or that I'd hold every American responsible for the current situation however. |
| mircea_popescu |
| The only way to get the lazy bums out of their bubble of confort and don't-give-a-shit is to put a loaded gun in their face. Responsibility is something that kills you. So. All Americans. Strictly liable. For being part in the US war on mankind. To be executed on sight. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Well I'm speechless. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Hey, I'm kinda speechless too. |
| BTC-Mining |
| If I applied that logic for anyone who is a citizen of a government I held responsible for crimes, I'd have to execute everybody on Earth, including myself. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Really ? Like, for instance, the icelandic people ? Or whatever, Andorra. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Simply for the fact no single government can be reasonably assumed to be 100% corruption free and applying laws correctly 100% of the time. |
| mircea_popescu |
| This is a strawman argument. We're not putting the standard at either 100% corruption free or applying laws at all. We are putting the standard at not making laws which are enmitous to mankind. It doesn't even matter whether such laws are ever applied or were ever applied. The simple fact that htey exist is sufficient. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Corruption in governments is almost always for making laws that are not bad for mankind. |
| mircea_popescu |
| We're not discussing "bad for mankind". We are discussing, hostile to mankind. |
| BTC-Mining |
| What I meant by bad. Harmful. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Yes, but is a difference between harmful and hostile. If I snipe at you while you sunbathe I am hostile, whether I hit you or not. If I take the parking spot you wanted, it may be bad for you, but there's no hostility involved. |
| BTC-Mining |
| The latter isn't really harmful, just vaguely inconvenient. I'd class sniping someone as harmful. |
| mircea_popescu |
| Well, if I don't hit you, no harm done. Harmful discusses effect. Hostile discusses intent. |
| BTC-Mining |
| I suppose. Seems more like it was an unagreement on definition of words. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Even so, would you claim your government has done absolutly zero hostile acts toward mankind for all the time you were a citizen? |
| mircea_popescu |
| You ever heard of Romania starting a war ? They tried to prevent the one in Serbia... bout all. |
| BTC-Mining |
| Aye, but I'm pretty sure at some point, it caused harm to its own citizen under one law or another. Although I guess that's not a receivable argument. |
| mircea_popescu |
| But anyway, this isnt a "oh I'm so much better than anyone else" thing. I'm just trying to point out the immensity of US insanity |
| BTC-Mining |
| I lack facts. But so do you against american citizens for merely being american citizen. Also, since you consider intent, I suppose you wouldn't be against minors or infants who have no choice or knowing intent of causing such hostile acts. As such, why held adults responsible for inaction when they themselve are completly clueless. I'd consider their inaction as a poor choice, but would not consider them responsible. Purely personal opinion however. To each it's set of standards and ethics. Eh, guess that's it for today, 4:30 am already. Goodbye. |
Category: SUA care este
Tuesday, 16 October 2012
While I really enjoyed the comic and got riled up a bit myself, I kept waiting for the cites that never arrived. There's plenty of mysterious third-party documentation of crazy laws worldwide; it's illegal to leave your house commando in Thailand, it's illegal to complain that it's not sunny in the winter months in Sweden, etc.
To the extent that any of these are true, I agree they're deplorable. But for the reason that frivolous laws seem to come up solely for the intent of angering or amusing, I can't help but suspect they're at least in part the products of hearsay or exaggeration.
Maybe it's my civic duty to find out?
Tuesday, 16 October 2012
As to the two instances cited :
Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918
Some examples of the stupidity in action :
District Court Imposes Migratory Bird Treaty Act Criminal Liability For "Takes" of Migratory Birds By Unprotected Oil Field Equipment ; Federal District Court Upholds Criminal Conviction Under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act for Bird Deaths Resulting from Oil Refinery Operations
the Lacey Act
Examples of the stupidity in action :
On it goes.
Tuesday, 16 October 2012
I'm satisfied, thank you. I hope nobody tries to tell me about "The Land of the Free" anytime soon.
Tuesday, 16 October 2012
asta nu-i nimic, sclava a lui mircea popescu zis si piotr cand are barba si e ras in cap, stai sa vezi comicsu' the crime of being mircea popescu zis si piotr cand are barba si e ras in cap.
Tuesday, 16 October 2012
Les ras, moar lafter.
Thursday, 3 January 2013
Simple fact - crime has been decreasing in the United States over the last three decades, and yet some prison population has been massively increasing.
This EconTalk podcast describes how prison populations were relatively stable as a percent of the population until recent times:
http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2012/12/pettit_on_the_p.html
I'm all for law and order, but something is wrong here.
Thursday, 3 January 2013
I would guess it's all order and no law, Soviet style.
Wednesday, 9 January 2013
It's happening just coz government can take any people by force and throw in jail. You believe in something named "Crime" and pay for building jails and hiring "law enforcement" thugs and government through circus named 'Court' and clowns named 'Judges' decide about putting you in jail. If you wanna live that way - you deserve it. You wanna obey for safety, but real safety cannot be received though obedience.
Wednesday, 9 January 2013
Maybe so.
Friday, 12 July 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgWcAZlDyhQ