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MOTTO : Daca nu stiti bancu' nu vi l-oi spune eu, ca nu-nvat copiii prostiiⁱ.

Bun si-acum, sub acest generos aegis, o discutie :

Eu :

Lavinia Florentina Rad » Edit «
Vineri, 22 Iunie 2012
Daca sinucigasii sunt cei mai buni dintre oameni, le-as recomanda unora sa fie “cei mai buni dintre oameni”. Unii chiar ar fi cei mai buni, prin disparitia lor… pt ca prezenta lor e un cosmar.
Asa ca iti dau dreptate…
Eu totusi prefer sa fiu “second-best” si sa fac ceva bun prin trairea mea nu printr-un gest patologic pe care l-ai ridicat atata in slavi.

@Lavinia Florentina Rad Apai dreptu’ tau sa preferi ce preferi tu. Putem fi oricind de acord ca pentru o femeie sinuciderea e un gest patologic, da’ asta e parte din discutia mai larga despre cum femeia nu-i de fapt om.

Ea : Lol troll.

Eu : Mnope.
Ea : "I think women for sure should be given equal rights. I just don't think they should be allowed to vote."

Eu : Not at all.
Ea : I was quoting my dad for humor, if you remember that story.

Eu : A.
Ea : You're not trolling? Women aren't people?

Eu : But to the point : the degree to which suicide is not normal but pathological hinges on how much one is a woman (or in other words, how much of one's intrinsic value comes from the actual or potential value of others). This is significant for women, as they bear children. So yes, we can agree that suicide is not normal but pathological, if we're talking about a woman. Not otherwise.
Ea : What is intrinsic value?

Eu : That which is lost through suicide.
Ea : This is different between women and men for the periods of gestation and infancy in that offspring under a certain age would arguably die without a mother?

Eu : Well if you kill a pregnant woman more than just the individual woman dies. Whether this is significant, legally, or politically, or whatever other way is debatable, but it is more.
Ea : Is this strictly biological standpoint really the right perspective for a discussion about whether suicide is normal or pathological?

Eu : Yes. Seeing how pathology is strictly a biological discussion.
Ea : Mk.

Eu : You see, as unpleasant and politically undesirable it is
Ea : The facts aren't unpleasant or politically undesirable.

Eu : Women as property has not just an old history, but some actual physiology. I'm pretty sure this is the hole the night comes through.
Ea : I'd say if that's the case, it's likely because of poor handling and representation of these facts among people.

Eu : You think ? Ground that.
Ea : The statement "women aren't people" doesn't connote this perfectly rational biological difference between the sexes, but rather suggests that women are somehow less than men, very particularly in the "not as good" sense. This after centuries of laws and customs reinforcing this idea.

Eu : A, yes. Yes, it is because of poor handling and representation of these facts among people. It's odd that in spite of the circumstance that most men profess to love at least one woman during their life and viceversa nevertheless rather than helping each other step they tend to use the other's lame leg to prevent them from stepping. Bizzare.
Ea : Well men and women may have their differences, but they're generally both averse to change. I think a lot of relationships are basically a mutual construction of the most acceptable status quo, which if broken at any point during the arrangement constitutes betrayal.

Eu : You're prolly right. It's kind of funny, because in fact "not as good" is correct, on the face of it. Yes, apples are not as good oranges as oranges. This is also very meaningful, except not.
Ea : It's not: not as good of an x.

Eu : Well yes. Laptops make shitty desktops.
Ea : It's simply, not as good. It's nebulous, which is precisely why it's infuriating.

Eu : If only kids were taught to think. "Not as good" makes no fucking sense, it's like calculate the sum of 2. Divide 5 by.
Ea : And our world is full of ridiculous things like this. What are you going to do, put out a ban on failed placeholders of concepts people dont really get and won't really examine? There'd be no more tv, no more public schools, Oprah's book club would die....

Eu : Ceausescu tried it, amusingly enough. THEY HATED ITTTTT!!!1
Ea : Well of course they did.

Eu : Yeah. Did I ever tell you the story of the little fishlets ?
Ea : I dont think so.

Eu : Mk. Romanians don't eat enough fish. Never have. This has been a problem forever. Sometime in the 70s it was finally brought to the fore and it was politically decided (among other things) that all restaurant meals will include a side of fish. Arrangements were made for this, country wide, you could literally not go to a restaurant and not get some fish.
Ea : Poor fish.

Eu : What did people do ? They made a point of not eating it. Soon enough cooks tired of cooking and throwing away untouched fish so the fish became unedible at first, then it became a token. And to this day there's plenty of households with a large blown glass fish on the tv set. (Not really on the last part, it's a joke, but it may just as well be fucking true). And yes. Poor fish. The fuck they did wrong !?
Ea : ;) You can't force people though. I mean, you CAN, but...

Eu : Yes, so they value their independence. They don't value their intelligence however.
Ea : People have to choose to grow. Some will, some won't... I certainly think a lot more people would under different social conditions and conventions, though i'm not sure exactly what they'd be or how they'd be brought about. It's not cool to think atm tho.

Eu : Hm ?
Ea : It's just not an ideal. Recognition for being smart is an ideal, but not thinking. That's for the fringe.

Eu : A, a. Yes lol, that's why Trilema is such a failure.
Ea : People forced into thinking and not getting recognition for being smart'll prolly sooner die.

Eu : They are forced into thinking and are getting virtually no recognition for it. And they feel like they'd sooner die and cry me a river over their hard life. Except when some idiot that's not been forced to think comes by, at which point they suddenly feel the difference.
Ea : Yep.

Eu : This has happened say yesterday.
Ea : Lol.

Eu : And then I write about how suicide is the answer. You must admit there's some nice high level troll at work here.
Ea : Hahaha :D

Eu : Lvl 61 Diabloⁱⁱ.

Traduce cineva ?

1. Cum ar suna asta fara niste i ? [↩]
2. Stiti explica referinta ? [↩]