Forum logs for 25 Oct 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

gabriel_laddel	furthermore, I have actually quit coffee now, twice.	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	omg teh haet.	[00:00]
gabriel_laddel	but I dislike being 'sober'.	[00:00]
gabriel_laddel	or uncaffinated, or whatever you want to call it.	[00:00]
gabriel_laddel	It's boring.	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	problem is - drunkedness is strictly for people who don't dislike being sober.	[00:00]
mats	well, if you'd like to try non racemics, guess I'll shill mymodafinil.com and its armodafinil	[00:00]
mats	discount if invoice paid with buttcoins	[00:01]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: pardon?	[00:01]
asciilifeform	mats: did you personally analyze it ?	[00:01]
mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel it's a paradoxical thing, what can i say.	[00:02]
mats	whaddya mean? lab test?	[00:02]
asciilifeform	yes	[00:02]
asciilifeform	as in, wtf is actually in that spam pill.	[00:02]
asciilifeform	last i checked, every spamarmacy is actually shipping indian adrafinil, which rots the liver.	[00:02]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: I simply don't understand what you're saying.	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	this is probab le.	[00:02]
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danielpbarron	asciilifeform> cue 'everyone has that option', here have a broomstick << or a Bible	[00:03]
mats	no. but my understanding is that the operators buy the generics from indian rx mfgs and resell the stuff	[00:03]
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mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel that not liking being sober is a very poor reason to be drunk. or whatever you call it.	[00:03]
mats	well nao...	[00:03]
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mats	guess it's a good thing I've only consumed a few dozen of em	[00:03]
asciilifeform	mats: recrystallize a few pills and find the melting point (it isn't hard.) you might be in for a surprise.	[00:04]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: I agree with you, but the amount of work I get done when caffinated, and the amount of fun I have doing it makes it simply impossible to do otherwise.	[00:04]
gabriel_laddel	I'm an addict, what can I say.	[00:04]
mats	I know next to nothing about chemistry	[00:04]
asciilifeform	mats: this experiment does not require a first class education in it.	[00:04]
mats	what if there's filler besides the moda? etc.	[00:04]
asciilifeform	hence you recrystallize	[00:05]
asciilifeform	(find what the active substance dissolves in which the fillers do not.)	[00:05]
asciilifeform	rinse, repeat (literally)	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	etoh ?	[00:05]
mats	the most experience I've had with testing chemicals is using various reagents to ensure I was consuming actual mdma	[00:05]
mats	but I'll give it a go, soon as I acquire a hot plate	[00:06]
mircea_popescu	can make out of wire and battery.	[00:06]
mircea_popescu	depending on wire thickness, either the wire or the battery shall be the hot plate.	[00:07]
mats	for folks curious about moda, gwern had written extensively on the subject	[00:07]
asciilifeform	interestingly, if mircea_popescu were to take a dose of modafinil (racemic or isomeric, pick whichever) he would notice NOTHING AT ALL	[00:07]
asciilifeform	guaranteed.	[00:07]
mats	has*	[00:07]
asciilifeform	and i bet mats knows why.	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it's probable. i have a poor reaction to many of these.	[00:07]
asciilifeform	no i mean literally NOTHING	[00:07]
asciilifeform	no side effect either.	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	whyssat ?	[00:07]
asciilifeform	because it is a very peculiar kind of dope, which does (as far as most folks notice, or - for the most part - across a few million eaters / a few decades of sales) precisely one thing.	[00:08]
asciilifeform	simulates a full night of sleep.	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	lol that's fucking useless.	[00:08]
asciilifeform	for mircea_popescu - guaranteed useless.	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	"take this pill, it simulates taking a piss" "or i could... take a piss ?" "yes, of course".	[00:09]
asciilifeform	countdown to broomstick...	[00:09]
mats	I mostly used it to retain cognitive power and wakefulness for studying binges and v late nights	[00:09]
*	mircea_popescu never binge studied either. wtf, if it's not worth reading normally it's not worth reading.	[00:10]
*	mircea_popescu also started his final thesis in college 5 months early, and was done with it about a month and a half before it was supposed to be turned in.	[00:10]
mats	http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2654794/	[00:10]
assbot	Mechanisms of modafinil: A review of current research ... ( http://bit.ly/1POdbhS )	[00:10]
mats	topical	[00:10]
mats	curious about BBs opinion on the subject of moda, and more broadly, 'nootropics'	[00:11]
mats	;;later tell bingoboingo haro, ^	[00:12]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:12]
gabriel_laddel	mats: I'm curious as to why you're curious as to BB's opinion?	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	other than peterl, bb is like the resident chemist huh	[00:12]
gabriel_laddel	?!	[00:12]
gabriel_laddel	since when?	[00:12]
mats	did a stint in pharmacy school, rite?	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	since when he keeps ranting about chem topics ? dunno.	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	alf too, but alf only took a kindergarten level chemistry class	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	so he doesn't count.	[00:13]
gabriel_laddel	riiiigt	[00:13]
mod6	haha	[00:13]
gabriel_laddel	*riiight.	[00:13]
mats	I liked moda because it was, for me, an adderall without the negative effects,	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	you lot could just as well have a glass of water and go takle a nap.	[00:14]
asciilifeform	aaaaaha sure.	[00:14]
asciilifeform	on dirigible.	[00:14]
asciilifeform	in the magical room where you only do things you want to do.	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	this shit isn't free. in the time you took to research it and the time it takes you to earn what it costs you coulda caught up on sleep.	[00:14]
trinque	I would wager this is more to do with "wow, this is what a smart person must feel like" and thereby actually doing some work than the effect of the chemical.	[00:14]
mats	e.g. distracting euphoria, I could still sleep while on the tail end of a 100mg dosage 7-8hrs in	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	trinque you know that AWESOME tlp article on placebo ?	[00:14]
trinque	no but I will now want to search it out	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	lemme feed it to you.	[00:15]
trinque	ty	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/08/no_one_likes_a_sure_thing.html	[00:15]
assbot	The Last Psychiatrist: No One Likes A Sure Thing ... ( http://bit.ly/1McBmRx )	[00:15]
asciilifeform	mats: you can actually sleep ~immediately~ after eating whatever dosage.	[00:15]
asciilifeform	mats: try it if you don't believe.	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	i just had the girls lined up with their mouths open while i swore as to the various aspects	[00:15]
gabriel_laddel	I'm rather envious of the 50s. You could get benzedrine otc, and it was widely used by e.g., Norbert Wiener	[00:15]
mats	asciilifeform: I believe, have done so on a few occasions	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	"no, parkinson, this is a legitimately defined disease with a biological backing. no, he is actually measuring the chemistry involved, dopamine. no, actually." etc	[00:15]
mats	when I was apparently too exhausted, or perhaps took an insubstantial dosage	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel i got benzadrine otc here. asked for cyclobenzapyrine, derp showed up with benzos.	[00:16]
gabriel_laddel	benzos != benzadrine	[00:16]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not the muscle relaxant!!	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[00:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: in 1950s usa, 'benzo' meant benzoamphetamine.	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	oh, he actually meant amphetamine ? mkay.	[00:17]
gabriel_laddel	yep.	[00:17]
asciilifeform	(not, say, benzodiazepine)	[00:17]
gabriel_laddel	widely used in the war effort.	[00:17]
mircea_popescu	icnow.	[00:17]
asciilifeform	in every country there was a separate name for it, for some odd reason	[00:18]
gabriel_laddel	I asked someone who was around, he claims that he "couldn't distinguish it from coffee"	[00:18]
asciilifeform	germany and anything warsaw pact say 'pervitin' (nazi brand) - folks will recognize.	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel you have any idea whbat the tolerance to benzo-* is like ?	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	after a few years you can take it by the gram.	[00:18]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: not really.	[00:18]
asciilifeform	actually the relevant piece here is mircea_popescu's own 'how to smoke' article.	[00:18]
asciilifeform	(don't be an idiot and eat $dope every day)	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that is the article about how to feed whores caviar.	[00:19]
asciilifeform	hm. perhaps was thinking of another.	[00:19]
asciilifeform	there was one about how to smoke, i distincly recally.	[00:19]
asciilifeform	*distinctly	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	i sometimes repeat myself.	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2011/caviarul-si-fata/ < one i was thinking of.	[00:19]
assbot	Caviarul si fata on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1McBCja )	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	"I. Ersteklasse. Crema a ceea ce poate oferi natura, icrele cele mai bune, din care in principiu un cetatean, oricit de bogat s-ar gasi, are totusi a consuma cantitati limitate, dintr-un motiv foarte simplu : daca nu alternezi cu produse inferioare te vei obisnui, si-apoi te vei deprima. Oamenii inteligenti le gusta lunar si traiesc fericiti pina la adinci batrineti."	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	"the cream of what nature can offer, best roe, of which in principle a person no matter how rich still should only consume limited amounts for a very simple reason : if you do not alternate with inferior product you wiull become used to it, and then depressed. intelligent people eat it once a month and live happilly ever after."	[00:20]
asciilifeform	^^^^	[00:21]
asciilifeform	entirely pertinent, even if the wrong article.	[00:21]
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mircea_popescu	thinking about it, i do recall i also said about smoking.	[00:21]
asciilifeform	'used to it, then depressed' followed by 'can't quit usa because that's where they serve up $x'	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	lol. you are not at all far off.	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	perhaps travelling by bus is now much more obviously comprehensible.	[00:22]
*	asciilifeform speaks with the studded and corpulent anal pineapple of experience	[00:22]
asciilifeform	;;later tell BingoBoingo https://cryptome.org/dodi/2015/dodd-5205-14.pdf >>>>>> http://dpaste.com/32ACSQ3.txt << lulzy, possibly qntra material ?	[00:28]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1McBVe4 )	[00:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1McBXCJ )	[00:28]
asciilifeform	'The Department of Defense shall work with other U.S. Government (USG) departments and agencies and with partner nations to deny, disrupt, or defeat and degrade adversaries’ ability to use global licit and illicit financial networks to negatively affect U.S. interests.'	[00:28]
asciilifeform	(followed by a few kb of mostly generic usg claptrap)	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	and this is remarkable why ?	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	they got a stretched asshole the size of the gulf, and they're gonna work towards stitching it back together ?	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	da fuck else would it say.	[00:31]
*	asciilifeform did not read whole thing	[00:31]
asciilifeform	hence feeding it to connoisseurs	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	the problem here is that dod is uniquely unequipped to do this. this is a job for the ss, which is WHY they handlwe counterfitting in the first place.	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	except ss knows enough about this to not want to touch it, so the aspirational down kids over at dod get a chance to shine.	[00:32]
asciilifeform	there is not a meaningful separation between various seekrit skvirrels in usa today	[00:32]
asciilifeform	(if there ever once was.)	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	oh but there is.	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	the only kind that counts : by intellect.	[00:33]
asciilifeform	quite a bit of lateral motion and unclear separation of concern between the spetzagencies	[00:35]
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asciilifeform	e.g., nsa is civilian-staffed but managed largely by active or retired dod folk	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	sure. but it still works exactly like it worked in the other soviet union.	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	ie, the real-special guys despise the wanna-be-special guys	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	which is why nsa is the internet forum pisspot.	[00:36]
asciilifeform	iirc ss handled the known/public aspects of the mtgox dekulakization ?	[00:39]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.45464928 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jan 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1216/bitcoin-to-top-600-before-jan-2016/#b7	[00:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23899 @ 0.00053911 = 12.8842 BTC [+] {3}	[00:57]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.26772084 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jan 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1216/bitcoin-to-top-600-before-jan-2016/#b8	[01:04]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 3.10409549 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jan 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1216/bitcoin-to-top-600-before-jan-2016/#b9	[01:15]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jan 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1216/bitcoin-to-top-600-before-jan-2016/#b10	[01:15]
mats	ho ho ho	[01:16]
mats	someone hasn't read mp's thing about address reuse	[01:23]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 4.23308806 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jan 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1216/bitcoin-to-top-600-before-jan-2016/#b11	[01:46]
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trinque	mircea_popescu \| http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/08/no_one_likes_a_sure_thing.html << I've been chewing on this for the last few hours. There's a lot here. gabriel_laddel, it would seem that not only could you will yourself focus, but generally will yourself anything from the possible mental states.	[02:59]
assbot	The Last Psychiatrist: No One Likes A Sure Thing ... ( http://bit.ly/1McBmRx )	[02:59]
trinque	that is, as long as you can convince yourself you have a good chance at being in the state you want to be in ;)	[03:00]
trinque	perhaps this anticipation thing is will.	[03:02]
trinque	!up gabriel_laddel	[03:03]
*	assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel	[03:03]
gabriel_laddel	ty	[03:03]
trinque	yw	[03:03]
gabriel_laddel	This is fucking nonsense. I cannot will myself to get up in the morning after 23 years of never having to.	[03:03]
trinque	taking anxiety as an example; the worst thing you can do is try to avoid it.	[03:04]
gabriel_laddel	most people wake up at 8am. Me: 4pm	[03:04]
trinque	you asserting "fucking nonsense" with no reason is fucking nonsense	[03:04]
trinque	when you have perfect health aside from this you can cry health problem	[03:04]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: you're right. I've not even read the article yet.	[03:04]
trinque	as it stands you've got a massive addiction to caffeine	[03:04]
trinque	one of my favorite drugs, I'll have you know	[03:05]
trinque	but it affects goddamn everything all over the body	[03:05]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: do you have the effect of almost fainting sometimes?	[03:05]
gabriel_laddel	like, you're just standing and then the stray thought "hey, it'd be nice to fall into bed, except there isn't a bed her" flies through your mind?	[03:06]
trinque	sounds like extreme exhaustion	[03:06]
trinque	have you ever done cocaine?	[03:06]
trinque	for a few days?	[03:07]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: yeah	[03:07]
trinque	sounds about like that	[03:07]
gabriel_laddel	nah, the caffine effect is different.	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	!up archStanton	[03:07]
-assbot-	You voiced archStanton for 30 minutes.	[03:07]
*	assbot gives voice to archStanton	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	trinque the caution being that it's a single study and they might be insane.	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	but otherwise, the fact that placebo is nothing short of crazy is an open secret in clinician circles.	[03:08]
gabriel_laddel	with coffee there are all sorts of weird things: like whenever I have a bike pass me by, I sort of envision it running into me.	[03:08]
trinque	sure, this is very interesting though	[03:08]
gabriel_laddel	same with cars.	[03:08]
trinque	sounds suicidal.	[03:08]
trinque	or at least paranoid	[03:08]
gabriel_laddel	and this goes away completely when I don't drink a lot of coffee	[03:08]
gabriel_laddel	it's sort of like a phantom limb effect.	[03:08]
gabriel_laddel	and is very odd.	[03:08]
trinque	yeah I've been fucked up on drugs before too bud	[03:09]
trinque	lol	[03:09]
trinque	why are you surprised your body's freaking out over your treatment of it?	[03:09]
gabriel_laddel	I'm not. It's just... odd.	[03:09]
gabriel_laddel	and it only happens with coffee.	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	the serious problem for coffee drinkers is the caffeine headache.	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	absent that... should be fine really.	[03:10]
gabriel_laddel	I've been burnt out on coke and hating life, but never have had this effect.	[03:10]
trinque	my only point is I wouldn't self diagnose "I need meds" before dropping your caffeine to zero, seeing where you're at	[03:11]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: to be clear, I've done this.	[03:11]
mircea_popescu	how about a cup a day or every coupla days or something. like sane people.	[03:11]
trinque	I've quit it entirely before, feels like shit, but a lot of the "stress" I was feeling back then was the several cups of coffee per day I was drinking.	[03:11]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: and have not done hard drugs in years	[03:11]
trinque	I'm at a cup a day now, fine	[03:11]
mircea_popescu	o wow that $600 bet is on fire huh	[03:12]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: the problem I have with being coffee-free isn't the stress, but rather that I miss having my thoughts race around	[03:13]
gabriel_laddel	and the multiple day reading binges	[03:13]
gabriel_laddel	(of code or english, take your pick)	[03:13]
trinque	so read all day anyway	[03:13]
trinque	this notion of making oneself do a thing is bizarre	[03:13]
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gabriel_laddel	yeah, but it's more fun when "high".	[03:13]
trinque	like you're a guy at the bridge of yourself directing things rather than being the thing	[03:14]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: so wait, you don't get more absorbed in whatever you're doing when drinking coffee?	[03:14]
trinque	is it that you have trouble clearing your head to consider one thing at a time?	[03:15]
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trinque	I drink coffee yes, for the high, but this does not prevent me from reading otherwise	[03:16]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: in part. It's also that I'm just not interested or excited about life without coffee.	[03:16]
gabriel_laddel	I don't have ideas that I would consider interesting.	[03:17]
gabriel_laddel	it's a horrid slog through boring nonsense, depression, the works.	[03:17]
trinque	well hell, death soon approaches.	[03:17]
trinque	for me that's plenty to get to work	[03:17]
gabriel_laddel	oh, and without coffee I get distracted.	[03:18]
trinque	have you ever really considered the fact that you will soon die?	[03:18]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: what, via coffee, or in general?	[03:19]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: "for me that's plenty to get to work" ?	[03:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59000 @ 0.00053743 = 31.7084 BTC [-]	[03:20]
trinque	plenty of motivation to	[03:20]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: it seems to me that the other thing missing from this discussion is that we've all very different chemistry.	[03:20]
trinque	yes but your statements imply certain beliefs	[03:21]
trinque	those may be different chemistry; I'm still chewing on the article as I said!	[03:21]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: for example, the modafinil that I've taken works great for other people.	[03:21]
trinque	what do you mean it works great?	[03:21]
gabriel_laddel	they stay awake for 40 ish hours with no issues.	[03:22]
gabriel_laddel	it does nothing for my sleep cycle	[03:22]
gabriel_laddel	and makes my thoughts disjointed.	[03:22]
trinque	this is an odd notion of being better; note that it is mostly about you being some kind of machine you run for x hours and produce y per hour	[03:23]
gabriel_laddel	wrt coffee or modafinil?	[03:23]
gabriel_laddel	or both?	[03:23]
trinque	both I'd say	[03:23]
trinque	what is the goal? so you stay awake for 40 hrs	[03:23]
trinque	and then what happens?	[03:24]
gabriel_laddel	and then I spend more time hacking apart portage than I would have otherwise	[03:24]
trinque	"I am the guy that coded for 40 hrs."	[03:24]
gabriel_laddel	lol, I'm not doing it for other people	[03:24]
trinque	fascinating, I didn't say it was for that	[03:25]
gabriel_laddel	"I am the guy who coded for 40 hrs" < ?	[03:25]
gabriel_laddel	isn't that what you were implying?	[03:25]
trinque	my statement is right there, no secret other meanings	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	and then I spend more time hacking apart portage than I would have otherwise << no you don't. this is like the ridiculous notion of teenagers that they'll make a car "better".	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	tell you what, if your mods were actually improvements THEY WOULD BE IN THE CAR.	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	it's an industrial fucking product, you think they don't know what you know ?	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	the only reason it's not included in the series version is that it's a stupid idea.	[03:26]
gabriel_laddel	actually, with respect to portage / gentoo / funtoo - yeah	[03:26]
trinque	ahaha, this is excellent due to the gentoo-as-ricer-car mockery	[03:26]
gabriel_laddel	I know more than they do.	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	no. with respect to "improving" your body.	[03:26]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: look, there are some things that I know make my body work better	[03:27]
gabriel_laddel	for example, taking the EasyUp before going to sleep	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	you have no idea.	[03:27]
gabriel_laddel	othewise I wake up and hate myself, am unable to open my eyes etc	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	there's somewhere in the log this observation, you can't learn medicine on yourself.	[03:27]
gabriel_laddel	and the whole process of brushing teeth takes like 1 hour	[03:27]
gabriel_laddel	with easyup: 20 minutes and I'm chipper	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	i had an uncle.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	he's dead.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	he had diabethes. according to him, he could not take the medicine. except with honey.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	this is known as fatlogic.	[03:29]
gabriel_laddel	I would lol if it wasn't your uncle.	[03:29]
trinque	you're doing the same thing.	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	you would also lol if it wasn't yourself.	[03:29]
gabriel_laddel	I understand the point you're making, but simply don't find that it applies to my situation.	[03:29]
gabriel_laddel	I've tried setting alarms, getting enough sleep etc.	[03:29]
mircea_popescu	this is fine :)	[03:29]
trinque	this is where he gets dumped in the ocean on mushrooms	[03:30]
gabriel_laddel	none of it works.	[03:30]
trinque	did wonders for my good friend	[03:30]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: !?!?	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	did he end up in france ?	[03:30]
trinque	lol	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	(from west coast, obviously)	[03:30]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: how would this help anything?	[03:31]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: and why would you do this to someone?	[03:31]
trinque	he did it to himself	[03:31]
trinque	no one forced him	[03:31]
gabriel_laddel	...	[03:32]
gabriel_laddel	what	[03:32]
trinque	he was disoriented and lost track of the beach and ended up rather far out	[03:33]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: could you please tell this story.	[03:33]
gabriel_laddel	oh.	[03:33]
trinque	lol no pun intended	[03:33]
gabriel_laddel	yeah, I'm not really sure how this relates to me.	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	lol	[03:33]
*	assbot removes voice from gabriel_laddel	[03:33]
trinque	accepted he might die, then found it within himself to be a man and swim his ass back to what felt like shore, and he did	[03:33]
trinque	!up gabriel_laddel	[03:33]
*	assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel	[03:33]
trinque	the reason I mentioned it is that you are so sure of your model of yourself	[03:34]
gabriel_laddel	yeah, I don't know what this "being a man" stuff is about	[03:34]
trinque	these types of experiences (and they're probably the cheapest version) will rid you of that nonsense in a moment	[03:34]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: I've lived with myself for 23 years, and have at no point been able to wake up sanely. I try it with these caffine pills and et viola! I wake up like a normal human!	[03:35]
gabriel_laddel	how else would you read that?	[03:35]
trinque	the fuck; you'd wake up if it meant an enemy bullet otherwise	[03:35]
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trinque	or maybe you wouldn't but the normal human mind can decide it can do all kinds of things when it must	[03:35]
trinque	if you're bitching about waking up in the morning I think you haven't suffered enough	[03:36]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: you'd think that. but I've missed events I really wanted to attend because I wouldn't wake	[03:36]
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gabriel_laddel	trinque: people have screamed things of this nature at me when I would miss the little school I went to	[03:36]
trinque	yeah I "never could wake up" as a teenager either	[03:36]
trinque	except I didn't give a fuck to, and my mother woke me up with breakfast and all my shit ready to go	[03:37]
trinque	and I went to a few pretend military camps in the summer and woke up myself every morning while there	[03:37]
trinque	to be grinning with a "fuck you" to the sergeant that'd come busting into my room screaming hoping I was still asleep	[03:37]
trinque	gabriel_laddel: this sounds like "I should've given a fuck" not "I gave a fuck"	[03:38]
*	assbot removes voice from archStanton	[03:38]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: you're missing my point, or I'm not stating it correctly. I've missed things I care deeply about because of sleep	[03:38]
gabriel_laddel	and even with people screaming at me, I still missed things	[03:38]
gabriel_laddel	and all of this is solved by taking a pill before I go to sleep	[03:39]
trinque	the sergeant's screaming had nothing to do with my waking up	[03:39]
trinque	I enjoyed the fuck out of winning at that game so I did	[03:39]
trinque	mircea_popescu: I see your point about education 100% at this moment.	[03:39]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: I enjoyed the fuck out of going to buy $CENSORED and was really excited about it, but ended up sleeping through the allotted time.	[03:40]
gabriel_laddel	but all of this is solved when I take a pill - not just a caffine pill - but a coffee extract?	[03:40]
gabriel_laddel	how on earth am I supposed to read this?	[03:40]
gabriel_laddel	that I should take the broomstick approach?	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	you do whatevs you feel like. if you're happy with it carry on, eventually you'll either die or have enough of it.	[03:41]
gabriel_laddel	(for the record, taking a regular caffine pill before sleep doesn't wok)	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	wait, you were gonna go weaboo all over the xbox line but then slept through the opening ?	[03:46]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: something akin to that, yes.	[03:47]
gabriel_laddel	multiple times.	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	i slept through it too.	[03:47]
gabriel_laddel	yeah, but were you excited about it?	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	depends on your definition of excited.	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	in operational terms, i was as excited as you were, apparently.	[03:48]
punkman	gabriel_laddel: doesn't the coffee pill make your sleep weird?	[03:48]
gabriel_laddel	punkman: nah	[03:48]
punkman	I've taken modafinil before sleep a couple times, to make sure I'd wake up for a flight	[03:48]
punkman	was quite tired, had the strangest dreams	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	ew	[03:49]
gabriel_laddel	And this is sort of what I'm getting at - people differ greatly. Modafinil doesn't work for me, some people can't take caffine before bed, some people can't drink and have sex (MP's eugenics article) and some can.	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	that's an age thing.	[03:52]
gabriel_laddel	mircea_popescu: what, drinking and sex?	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	myeah	[03:52]
trinque	gabriel_laddel: and how healthy are you	[03:53]
gabriel_laddel	riiight.	[03:53]
punkman	mircea_popescu: dunno, I remember being too drunk to fuck at 17 or whatever	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	well, alcohol is a downer. kids are overexcitable. it's a toss-up.	[03:54]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: I don't know.	[03:54]
*	gabriel_laddel glances to the side, sees 10 orange crush cans.	[03:56]
gabriel_laddel	I'll go with "I treat my body like shit, and do pretty well "	[03:57]
trinque	but you like so totally have this very unique sleep disorder	[03:57]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: ?	[03:57]
trinque	again, the statement is right there.	[03:58]
trinque	might try operating the thing better first	[03:58]
gabriel_laddel	well, that is a fair point, but I don't want to e.g., lose weight.	[03:59]
trinque	what does reality care about what you want	[03:59]
trinque	although, maybe if you can convince yourself that some of your orange crush cans are sleep aids...	[03:59]
trinque	but only some!	[03:59]
gabriel_laddel	oh this is nonsense	[03:59]
gabriel_laddel	look, there are tradeoffs to be made	[04:00]
gabriel_laddel	I've been healthy before, but it sucks	[04:00]
trinque	it was a joke, dingus	[04:00]
gabriel_laddel	oh, derp	[04:00]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: so what is your top 3 favorite substances of abuse?	[04:01]
trinque	so this whole thing is mainly about what you want, which is orange crush and other things, but not being healthy	[04:01]
trinque	I don't tend to "abuse" substances	[04:01]
gabriel_laddel	the problem with being healthy is that I get too turned on by everything.	[04:01]
trinque	though I'm 28; I'm not saying I never did	[04:01]
punkman	lolwut	[04:01]
gabriel_laddel	so yeah, I'm optimizing for something specific.	[04:01]
trinque	not that I'm ancient, but I'm not trying to wreck the thing either	[04:01]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: so what /were/ your top 3.	[04:01]
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trinque	I was never one to habitually wreck myself	[04:02]
trinque	if I say "booze" that's saying I got very drunk that month	[04:02]
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trinque	weed I smoked daily for a long time	[04:02]
gabriel_laddel	fine, trinque, what are your top 3 favorite substances to use in moderation, with a trip sitter, etc etc	[04:02]
gabriel_laddel	like a responsible adult	[04:03]
trinque	so coffee weed booze by volume	[04:03]
gabriel_laddel	and by preference?	[04:03]
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trinque	!up gabriel_laddel	[04:04]
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trinque	gabriel_laddel: actually I will admit to using cigs in precisely the same way you were talking about coffee	[04:04]
gabriel_laddel	trinque: ah, so nicotine is one of my favorite as well	[04:05]
trinque	coding, getting the nicotine going and thinking I was "so much more focused"	[04:05]
trinque	it's a bunch of horse shit	[04:05]
gabriel_laddel	!?	[04:05]
trinque	the fucking oxygen you're not getting for one	[04:05]
gabriel_laddel	I no longer smoke, but programming while smoking was always nice.	[04:05]
trinque	your feelings about the thing do not matter	[04:05]
gabriel_laddel	then what the fuck is the point!?	[04:05]
trinque	of what?	[04:05]
gabriel_laddel	anything!	[04:06]
trinque	what point	[04:06]
gabriel_laddel	why are we here if not to have fun	[04:06]
gabriel_laddel	why not program JS for a living	[04:06]
trinque	you're here because some things happened	[04:06]
trinque	why not program JS for a living?	[04:06]
gabriel_laddel	right, but I'm here to have a good time in spite of that	[04:06]
trinque	or suck dick?	[04:06]
gabriel_laddel	hence why cl etc etc	[04:06]
trinque	so do that	[04:06]
gabriel_laddel	omg	[04:06]
trinque	being here to have a good time sounds great	[04:07]
gabriel_laddel	dawwww I'm so curious as to your thoughts on MDMA, cocaine, LSD	[04:07]
gabriel_laddel	mushrooms	[04:07]
gabriel_laddel	do tell, please	[04:07]
trinque	lovely fun all	[04:07]
trinque	what's to tell?	[04:07]
gabriel_laddel	have you done anything really out there, like DMT?	[04:08]
trinque	salvia is pretty out there.	[04:08]
trinque	but not dmt	[04:08]
trinque	*haven't	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	for some reason b-a now reads like reddit.	[04:08]
trinque	the thing I'm moderately curious about is what question gabriel_laddel is asking	[04:10]
trinque	but it's certainly getting nowhere and can be left at that.	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	looks like a scoring model.	[04:12]
punkman	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSIVwAwWIAAlFXH.png	[04:15]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1WbEGae )	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck is this "ethicists".	[04:16]
punkman	old women that can't afford motorized dildo?	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	women may speak of ethics now ?!	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	what's next, rabis ?	[04:17]
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thestringpuller	https://magnr.com/ << the ponzis continue	[04:36]
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deedbot-	[Trilema] The Great Gatsby - http://trilema.com/2015/the-great-gatsby/	[04:53]
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mircea_popescu	;;ud idgi	[05:27]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=idgi \| As two friends chuckled about how fake the scene looked one seemingly naive friend commented "I don't get it", "what's so funny?". At last the IDGI was re-born.	[05:27]
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mircea_popescu	!up referredbyloper	[05:32]
-assbot-	You voiced referredbyloper for 30 minutes.	[05:32]
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referredbyloper	Thanks. I just read the post about phuctor breaking an rsa key.	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	cool.	[05:36]
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mircea_popescu	http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/08/love_the_way_you_lie_with_me.html << in which tlp understands why castrated pencildicks can't compete.	[05:58]
assbot	The Last Psychiatrist: Love The Way You Lie (With Me) ... ( http://bit.ly/1POwc3Q )	[05:58]
mircea_popescu	way to go. ps : it isn't abuse just because it leaves you outside, feeling inadequate.	[05:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25625 @ 0.00053682 = 13.756 BTC [-]	[06:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129300 @ 0.00054382 = 70.3159 BTC [+] {6}	[07:34]
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jurov	;;ticker	[07:47]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 292.32, Best ask: 292.55, Bid-ask spread: 0.23000, Last trade: 292.7, 24 hour volume: 25634.88479045, 24 hour low: 279.7, 24 hour high: 292.98, 24 hour vwap: None	[07:47]
jurov	!up Zuardi	[07:47]
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jurov	!t m x.eur	[07:47]
assbot	[MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00405789 / 0.00406095 / 0.0040661 (264 shares, 1.07 BTC), 7D: 0.00405633 / 0.00416233 / 0.00430867 (2925 shares, 12.17 BTC), 30D: 0.00405633 / 0.00446616 / 0.00478652 (7786 shares, 34.77 BTC)	[07:47]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30463 @ 0.00053682 = 16.3531 BTC [-] {2}	[07:52]
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punkman	14 years ago http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apples-new-thing-ipod.500/	[11:10]
assbot	Apple's New Thing (iPod) \| MacRumors Forums ... ( http://bit.ly/1N0K2PP )	[11:10]
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VariaVarietatis	sup mircea_popescu	[12:16]
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punkman	"By the grace if Allah upon His faithful servants, your brothers in the Technical Department of GIMF as well as the brothers in Al-Fajr Media Center have developed encryption software to protect your communications on your personal computers and mobile phones."	[12:21]
punkman	"These software packages - Asrar al-Mujahideen, Asrar al-Dardashah, Mobile Encryption and Amn al-Mujahid - are the arrows in your quiver to pierce the eyes of the spies."	[12:21]
punkman	(from al-qaeda magazine)	[12:22]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin to top $400 before January 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1170/bitcoin-to-top-400-before-january-2016/#b30	[12:34]
asciilifeform	punkman: rot13.	[13:00]
asciilifeform	punkman: gotta remember that those folks are - for all intents and purposes - retarded.	[13:01]
asciilifeform	;;later tell gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307560 << i could tell much the same tale as you. eventually i discovered that i have a 26-hour circadian cycle and no amount of punishments, risks, dope, lost money, etc. will do A FUCKING THING about it. the only cure is to break out of workschwitz so that to sleep ad libitum.	[13:05]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[13:05]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 06:26:09; gabriel_laddel: othewise I wake up and hate myself, am unable to open my eyes etc	[13:05]
punkman	asciilifeform: I thought the language amusing	[13:07]
asciilifeform	punkman: likely, it reads entirely normal in the original	[13:07]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307497 << actually the most serious problem is that eventually it stops doing anything at all.	[13:09]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 06:08:24; mircea_popescu: the serious problem for coffee drinkers is the caffeine headache.	[13:09]
asciilifeform	and you can't take a holiday from the dope because then the cheques stop coming.	[13:09]
asciilifeform	(in usa it is rare for any worker type to have serious paid leave)	[13:09]
asciilifeform	2 wk/yr is considered princely.	[13:10]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307550 << this is nonsense and mircea_popescu knows it. do your gurlz take bc pill ? iron supplement? BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE CAR111!!1	[13:11]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 06:24:45; mircea_popescu: tell you what, if your mods were actually improvements THEY WOULD BE IN THE CAR.	[13:11]
asciilifeform	perhaps the gods meant them to be anemic and nonstop pregnant..	[13:12]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307565 << in the end, everybody gets to be equally dead.	[13:13]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 06:26:56; mircea_popescu: he's dead.	[13:13]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307597 << WITHOUT EXCEPTION this kind of thing is said by people who, if you were to wire them to the mains to get the truth, will admit that they see any disease that doesn't show up on a blood test or xray as 'in your mind'	[13:16]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 06:32:53; trinque: these types of experiences (and they're probably the cheapest version) will rid you of that nonsense in a moment	[13:16]
asciilifeform	tlp et al are right in a sense: depression, weird circadian rhythms, etc. are not diseases in the sense that leukemia is. all of these people would happily live without dope, on some different planet. the problem is that they cannot move to this planet.	[13:17]
asciilifeform	if gabriel_laddel actually could sleep ad libitum - that is, WHENEVER he wants, FOR AS LONG AS he wants - i suspect that he wouldn't ask for dope of any kind.	[13:18]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307622 << i never grasped this custom: why is it necessary to buy $item the day it comes out? let the other schmucks test...?	[13:22]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 06:44:47; mircea_popescu: wait, you were gonna go weaboo all over the xbox line but then slept through the opening ?	[13:22]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307706 << l0l, why? because dope?	[13:24]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 07:07:19; mircea_popescu: for some reason b-a now reads like reddit.	[13:24]
asciilifeform	imho smart-people-talking-about-dope doesn't read quite the same as stupid-people-talking-about-dope.	[13:24]
asciilifeform	because smart-people-talking-about-$item doesn't read quite the same as stupid-people-talking-about-$item. for any possible $item.	[13:25]
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asciilifeform	see also:	[13:27]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-08-2014#808005	[13:27]
assbot	Logged on 25-08-2014 03:08:03; asciilifeform: busy as a bee << funny that they show an idiot sow scrubbing, and not, e.g, paul erdos crapping out theorems	[13:27]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307710 << see also:	[13:29]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 07:14:09; punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSIVwAwWIAAlFXH.png	[13:29]
asciilifeform	!s mocsny	[13:29]
assbot	35 results for 'mocsny' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=mocsny	[13:29]
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asciilifeform	who predicted that, if realistic sex robot is ever thought to be possible (and it is intrinsically a for-men item, as there is not likely to appear a dominance-robot and certainly not a wealth-robot) , there will be mass upheaval.	[13:31]
diametric	asciilifeform: check it out http://www.thermaltronics.com/products.php	[13:37]
assbot	Thermaltronics Soldering: Products ... ( http://bit.ly/1RvxgrQ )	[13:37]
diametric	asciilifeform: look familiar?	[13:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00053668 = 9.6602 BTC [-]	[13:45]
asciilifeform	diametric: metcal?!	[14:07]
*	asciilifeform reads specs, discovers that indeed it claims to be a metcal clone	[14:08]
asciilifeform	diametric: they have tweezers, even.	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	hhhhola!	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform must be bought same day because poor impulse control (must have) and poor social skills (this is the only time you'll meet people you can talk to this year)	[14:24]
asciilifeform	buenos dias señor popescu	[14:24]
mircea_popescu	que tal ?	[14:25]
mats	https://pax.grsecurity.net/docs/PaXTeam-H2HC15-RAP-RIP-ROP.pdf	[14:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1LVp5Fj )	[14:28]
asciilifeform	viva la revolución por siempre y para siempre	[14:28]
asciilifeform	or somethinglikethat.	[14:28]
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asciilifeform	mats: again with the 'let's seeeekk00000r3 the c-machine with magic pixie dust'	[14:29]
asciilifeform	dontcha ever tire of it ?	[14:29]
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mats	you know grsec subtracts more from kernel than it adds?	[14:30]
diametric	asciilifeform: its not a clone.	[14:30]
diametric	asciilifeform: the engineers that created metcal left metcal, and formed thermaltronics when the patent expired	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[14:30]
mats	if you find the time, it is far more readable than selinux	[14:30]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 294.52, Best ask: 294.64, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 294.52, 24 hour volume: 33147.35330584, 24 hour low: 280.35, 24 hour high: 295.99, 24 hour vwap: None	[14:30]
diametric	so technically, the thermaltronics is more metcal than metcal is now.	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	o look at that. resistences evaporating.	[14:30]
asciilifeform	diametric: nifty, we oughta buy one of these.	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	let's dust off some old quote.	[14:30]
diametric	asciilifeform: was thinking about it	[14:31]
asciilifeform	mats: take, for instance: 'encrypt/decrypt return address by a random key.' this is TYPICAL microshitism. the only actual result of this kind of thinking is that shit gets ever harder to debug, and new hidey-holes for exploitation are born.	[14:31]
asciilifeform	mats: try to understand what i am objecting to - you might learn something.	[14:33]
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asciilifeform	there was an old comic where a schoolteacher says 'i always wear a condom when conducting lessons'	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	well... looking for where i said teh poor usg is between rock and hard place, if it misses but once it's fucked, i instead found http://trilema.com/2012/why-smpoe-is-worth-more-than-mtgox/	[14:34]
asciilifeform	this is what all the various 'stack canaries', 'encrypted return addresses', etc. sounds like to me.	[14:34]
assbot	Why S.MPOE is worth more than MtGox on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MMSgXx )	[14:34]
mircea_popescu	ima call it good.	[14:34]
mircea_popescu	lest i get lost in a pile of awesome and do no work but grin for the rest of the sunday.	[14:34]
asciilifeform	https://xkcd.com/463 << found it	[14:34]
assbot	xkcd: Voting Machines ... ( http://bit.ly/1MMSkGD )	[14:34]
mircea_popescu	"Asrar al-Mujahideen, Asrar al-Dardashah" aaaahahahah.	[14:35]
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mircea_popescu	next time, stick to el-zip-ibn-lzw, brothers.	[14:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: recall your 'homebrew crypto' article ?	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307743 << it sounded to me like the same. in fact, it is likely that boys have a non-24 hour rythm with significant incidence (if you think about it - how do you design the male to maximize its fucjing and hunting opportunities ?)	[14:37]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 16:04:16; asciilifeform: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307560 << i could tell much the same tale as you. eventually i discovered that i have a 26-hour circadian cycle and no amount of punishments, risks, dope, lost money, etc. will do A FUCKING THING about it. the only cure is to break out of workschwitz so that to sleep ad libitum.	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	i do.	[14:37]
asciilifeform	aha. when left to my own devices, i'll cycle through the whole face of the clock.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	right ?	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	so you'll find all the animals asleep at some time.	[14:38]
asciilifeform	THIS is why i covet 'sleep ad libitum' more than anything else.	[14:38]
asciilifeform	more than dirigibles, harems, etc.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	i am currently waking 2pm, fancy that.	[14:39]
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mircea_popescu	and to grok the true sign of luxury : i have an auction in eulora in 20 minutes. which i woke naturally for.	[14:39]
*	assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo	[14:41]
asciilifeform	this is also why i do not piss on 'one day my real life will begin!' fantasy with the same abandon as tlp and mircea_popescu	[14:41]
asciilifeform	because i can easily see a rational mechanism for 'i am not now really alive but if $condition then i will be.'	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	your parents aren't supposed to understand YOU. they're supposed to understand the world.	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	you is your job.	[14:42]
asciilifeform	parents?	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	well tlp in this case. but the mechanism of pissing on X myth is parenting.	[14:42]
mircea_popescu	in fact, THIS is what parenting is. pissing on myths.	[14:42]
asciilifeform	i was conjecturing that this particular myth has a kernel of truth in it, just as the stories of 'great flood' are said to	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	all myths have a kernel of truth in em. the idea is to select a set that works.	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	kinda the point of that entire thing with trinque yest. "oh, 100% placebo works for me when i tihnk it's 75% drug". good for you, continue.	[14:44]
asciilifeform	!s placebocin	[14:45]
assbot	5 results for 'placebocin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=placebocin	[14:45]
asciilifeform	(from uncle al's works)	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	aha. the effect is not exactly unknown, in all its batshit crazy splendour.	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	or should i say "unmodelable" ? obscurantist perhaps ? :D	[14:45]
asciilifeform	most brightly illustrated by the savages who could be 'prayed to death'	[14:45]
asciilifeform	there are, incidentally, promising models for it. but the thing went nowhere because science died.	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	no. they are promising for the same reason 15yo hos "are" promising.	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	they're not models. and once they try to become models they quit promising.	[14:46]
asciilifeform	prolly ought have said 'were promising.'	[14:46]
asciilifeform	it is a past-tense thing.	[14:46]
mats	asciilifeform: grsec, afaik, has had _exactly one_ publicly disclosed vuln, to my knowledge	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	but not because of any sort of co-incidence.	[14:46]
asciilifeform	mats: my objection is ecological rather than immediate, understand.	[14:47]
mats	results speak for themselves, despite hand waving as to 'pixie dust', which is outright misleading imo	[14:47]
asciilifeform	mats: i object to the entire pattern of thought on display there.	[14:47]
mats	noted	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	mats but what do you know of the unknown ones ?	[14:47]
asciilifeform	the result FROM MY CHAIR is that the code is MORE COMPLEX	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	i mean, your data is your data, ok, but what does it say ?	[14:47]
asciilifeform	this is ipso facto a bad thing.	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	"grsec has had much lower burn rate than the other packages because there has been less independent research put into it"	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	vs "grsec is actually better code"	[14:48]
asciilifeform	and the PREMISES are retarded. they take it as a GIVEN that there WILL be overflows, stack smashes, etc.	[14:48]
asciilifeform	that these are thing we OUGHT to live with.	[14:48]
asciilifeform	as concepts.	[14:48]
mats	13:28:25 <+mats> you know grsec subtracts more from kernel than it adds?	[14:49]
asciilifeform	mats: if you'd like to link to, e.g., diffs, to demonstrate this, i'll read.	[14:49]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307748 << well yeah but i meant in withdrawal.	[14:50]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 16:07:26; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307497 << actually the most serious problem is that eventually it stops doing anything at all.	[14:50]
asciilifeform	ah yes.	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307753 << jesus fuck he fucking butchered me.	[14:51]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 16:09:55; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307550 << this is nonsense and mircea_popescu knows it. do your gurlz take bc pill ? iron supplement? BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE CAR111!!1	[14:51]
asciilifeform	mats: also we ought to try to agree on some notion of 'results'. for me, 'results' includes not only 'how many 0days published' but also 'what the code i MUST READ TO GRASP THE SYSTEM actually looks like'	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	i will now attempt to mout a defense with my disembodied, bloody remains!	[14:52]
asciilifeform	l0l	[14:52]
asciilifeform	take some reconstitutory dopez!	[14:52]
mircea_popescu	so asciilifeform : a) the iron because they're broken (ie, not equal to the design) ; the bc is, TECHNICALLY, part of the car. aftermarket shocks.	[14:52]
asciilifeform	aha. dope, as correctly used, is aftermarket shocks.	[14:52]
mircea_popescu	fu!	[14:53]
asciilifeform	or jets. or parachute. take your pick.	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	i got nothing!	[14:53]
asciilifeform	where was that rhyme...	[14:53]
asciilifeform	'my candle burns at both ends, / it will not last the night, / but ah, my foes! / and oh, my friends! / it gives a lovely light.'	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	lol	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	nb.	[14:55]
asciilifeform	and yes, for every meth-taking erdos or wiener, there are ten million nobodies who think that their sulfurous rancid turd burning at both ends is a candle with lovely light, yes.	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	no. the irony is, they think "there was nothing [else] i could do."	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	because this is how "think" goes.	[14:56]
mircea_popescu	"nobloody could have predictits!"	[14:56]
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mats	well, offhand, disables read/writes to /dev/kmem, /dev/mem, /dev/port, model specific registers, kexec, module loading, privileged io (ioperm and iopl calls), unprivileged PERF_EVENTS usage, restricts /proc, sysfs, and debugfs, ...	[15:19]
mats	if i find diffs, ill let you know	[15:19]
asciilifeform	mats: disables how? and for whom ?	[15:19]
asciilifeform	on an ordinary linux box you already need root for these	[15:20]
asciilifeform	(with the possible exception of /proc - but i gotta run strace! what, i have to sudo to strace now?!)	[15:20]
mats	many of these protects kernel from root	[15:21]
mats	i haven't read through all the patchsets, so can't say exhaustively which does what, etc	[15:21]
asciilifeform	'protects from root' what a crock of shit	[15:21]
asciilifeform	yes, i get that this is the fashion, 'box with no root'	[15:22]
asciilifeform	it is a crock of shit, because the pretense is trivially shattered in 1,001 ways	[15:22]
asciilifeform	(can i talk to the nic? does it have dma?)	[15:22]
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mats	https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/3/13/774 ?	[15:34]
assbot	LKML: Matthew Garrett: [PATCH 04/12] x86: Lock down IO port access when trusted_kernel is true ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAWd4H )	[15:34]
asciilifeform	mats: only thing is, i can do arbitrary dma on just about any box where i can access ~any~ pci device's standard mmio space - no need to screw with the pci config regs	[15:36]
asciilifeform	(e.g., most nics have a - documented or not - provision for dma)	[15:36]
asciilifeform	and yes, you can fandango over ~all~ of physical ram, typically the thing does not care where you put its ring buffer - and you don't need to access pci config to move it	[15:38]
asciilifeform	but if you enjoy putting a steel door on a drywall room - who am i to say no.	[15:38]
asciilifeform	also - as mats knows - or ought to know - 'trusted' is a usg shibboleth for 'resists attempts at understanding or modification by putative owner'	[15:39]
asciilifeform	as in 'trusted platform module'	[15:40]
asciilifeform	or microshit's 'trusted computing.'	[15:40]
asciilifeform	;;google treacherous computing	[15:40]
gribble	Can You Trust Your Computer? - GNU Project - Free Software ...: ; Microsoft's Treacherous Computing — Free Software Foundation ...: ; Digital Restrictions Management and Treacherous Computing ...:	[15:40]
asciilifeform	^ see also rms on subj.	[15:40]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307364 << I babysat the classroom while the lectures came in over the projector.	[15:44]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 03:11:07; mats: did a stint in pharmacy school, rite?	[15:44]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: you missed a long and mighty dope thread	[15:45]
BingoBoingo	reading through it nao	[15:45]
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BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307357 << Caffeine, vitamin B, and sleep are fine. Changing the "set point" of the dopamine and norephedrine pathways seems shitty	[15:49]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 03:10:08; mats: curious about BBs opinion on the subject of moda, and more broadly, 'nootropics'	[15:49]
mats	i can't say i know enough to address your claims	[15:50]
asciilifeform	this is not a bad time to point out that dope tolerance is not a magical punishment straight from god, but a physical mechanism. which could, conceivably, be dealt with.	[15:50]
asciilifeform	there was some work in this direction, but for reasons which are quite clear (politics of u.s. pharma business) it never went anywhere.	[15:51]
mats	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307775 << relatedly, https://vimeo.com/79173606 lol	[15:51]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 16:29:35; asciilifeform: who predicted that, if realistic sex robot is ever thought to be possible (and it is intrinsically a for-men item, as there is not likely to appear a dominance-robot and certainly not a wealth-robot) , there will be mass upheaval.	[15:51]
assbot	VR TENGA DEMO (2): Oculus Rift＋Novint Falcon＋TENGA on Vimeo ... ( http://bit.ly/1WcAAtm )	[15:51]
asciilifeform	mats: l0l! what is that	[15:52]
mats	demo of 'novint falcon' game controller	[15:53]
mats	we r p close to rendition of virtual fuckbot through e.g. oculus rift+fleshlight+'novint falcon'	[15:54]
jurov	"there will be mass upheaval" << sauce?	[15:57]
jurov	and why there was no similar upheaval when free porn became available?	[15:57]
deedbot-	[Trilema] And there was another auction, and there was another record, and so on. - http://trilema.com/2015/and-there-was-another-auction-and-there-was-another-record-and-so-on/	[16:09]
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mats	ben_vulpes has briefly mentioned before, but: window system in haskell in 1200 lines https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad	[16:23]
assbot	xmonad/xmonad · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1R6Qggs )	[16:23]
jurov	misread as widget system, got excited for a moment	[16:24]
mats	=[	[16:25]
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ben_vulpes	xmonad sucks as much as haskell sucks, for the simple reason that one must load haskell's horseshit into head to use it.	[16:31]
ben_vulpes	stumpwm is marginally better, and...	[16:31]
ben_vulpes	granted, 18kloc.	[16:32]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.66000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jan 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1216/bitcoin-to-top-600-before-jan-2016/#b13	[16:33]
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mircea_popescu	"\|hey - heres an idea Apple - rather than enter the world of gimmicks and toys, why dont you spend a little more time sorting out your pathetically expensive and crap server line up?	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	or are you really aiming to become a glorified consumer gimmicks firm?"	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	ahaha that thread's gold.	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	Oct 23, 2001	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	"I still can't believe this! All this hype for something so ridiculous! Who cares about an MP3 player? I want something new! I want them to think differently!	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	Why oh why would they do this?! It's so wrong! It's so stupid!"	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307758 << what is this obscurantist claptrap! if i can't model it adequately and measure it experimentaly it's in your mind!	[16:37]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 16:14:41; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307597 << WITHOUT EXCEPTION this kind of thing is said by people who, if you were to wire them to the mains to get the truth, will admit that they see any disease that doesn't show up on a blood test or xray as 'in your mind'	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307764 << no, not because dope. because substanceless (ha!) lines of five words each delineating vague posturing of no further interest.	[16:39]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 16:22:46; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307706 << l0l, why? because dope?	[16:39]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307775 << 0 upheaval. what fucking upheaval ?	[16:40]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 16:29:35; asciilifeform: who predicted that, if realistic sex robot is ever thought to be possible (and it is intrinsically a for-men item, as there is not likely to appear a dominance-robot and certainly not a wealth-robot) , there will be mass upheaval.	[16:40]
mircea_popescu	hey, where did everyone go! let's argue about things!	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	Wot Rank 15 / 7,591 << ha-HA!	[16:46]
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*	sinetek_ (~quassel@114.134.189.100) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:48]
*	sinetek has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[16:49]
ben_vulpes	today i learned about the ongoing lng conversions in the shipping industry	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	aha ?	[16:53]
mircea_popescu	did you get to the entire crazy that is "oil quality", how it relates to its density, and what "a barrle" ACTUALLY means ?	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	guaranteed entertainment for a year's time in smart go-getter types.	[16:54]
ben_vulpes	no i have not!	[16:57]
ben_vulpes	is "oil quality" something other than j/g?	[16:57]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[16:58]
mircea_popescu	oil quality is, i daresay, something like beauty in adolescent human females.	[16:58]
mircea_popescu	for sure more male time / money went into the former to date.	[16:58]
mircea_popescu	it is certainly a valid, heavy duty phd. "1915-2015, a century of "oil quality"". THAT is something i'd respect.	[16:59]
ben_vulpes	i have never successfully run down what heresy chevron puts into their techron	[17:01]
ben_vulpes	makes me fear for my 35 year old engine.	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	your car is older than you ?	[17:01]
ben_vulpes	i actually drive out to the rural areas to find low ethanol fuels.	[17:01]
ben_vulpes	significantly!	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	a few %s isn't significant anymore :D	[17:02]
ben_vulpes	's more than a few.	[17:03]
ben_vulpes	dunno that people here realize how young i actually am.	[17:03]
mircea_popescu	weren't you like 28 or something ?	[17:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49649 @ 0.00053483 = 26.5538 BTC [-] {2}	[17:04]
mod6	So a new version of my V (version 99999 K) has been posted to the website and the ML.	[17:05]
mod6	http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20151025.tar.gz && http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20151025.tar.gz.mod6.sig	[17:05]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Mkqpn9 )	[17:05]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Mkqpnd )	[17:05]
mod6	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-October/000173.html	[17:05]
assbot	[BTC-dev] mod6's V [in perl] version 99999 K ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mkqqre )	[17:05]
mod6	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-October/000174.html	[17:05]
assbot	[BTC-dev] mod6's V [in perl] version 99999 K with Cucumber Tests & Testing Guide Included ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mkqrv9 )	[17:05]
mod6	Enjoy! Let me know if you have questions or run into any problems. Thanks!	[17:05]
mircea_popescu	cool bans	[17:06]
ben_vulpes	intel always remembers :P	[17:07]
ben_vulpes	tasting guido included!	[17:07]
mircea_popescu	kik	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	"There is a terrible, terrible, ugly truth underlying all of this, and that is that taxes don't matter to a government that can print money. The government collected $2.4T and spent $3.6T. They'll take what they get, of course, but if they had collected $2T or $3T you/they would not have noticed. The country isn't a household, it is a bank, and as long as the rest of the world believes "we're good for it," then we a	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	re. When it decides otherwise, look out. The US will go Lehman Brothers faster than you can say Bear Stearns."	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[17:17]
ben_vulpes	mod6: decided to leave auto-seal-retrieval in there?	[17:19]
mod6	yeah, seals, and patches, but not wots.	[17:20]
ben_vulpes	ah	[17:20]
mod6	as discussed before	[17:20]
ben_vulpes	i saw stan barking about autoprocurement of things and must've misremembered	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	so check!	[17:24]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307928 << how many lines is ~haskell itself~ ? and of what.	[17:25]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 19:22:13; mats: ben_vulpes has briefly mentioned before, but: window system in haskell in 1200 lines https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad	[17:26]
asciilifeform	THIS MATTERS for fuck's sake	[17:26]
asciilifeform	is it so hard to grasp..?	[17:26]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: i did! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-10-2015#1303531	[17:26]
assbot	Logged on 20-10-2015 17:04:18; mircea_popescu: well, i got my link about 500x faster than if i searched for it. somehow.	[17:26]
mod6	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-10-2015#1296530 && http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-10-2015#1296543	[17:26]
assbot	Logged on 11-10-2015 23:47:42; mod6: ah. ok. i see. so let the user populate the wots on their own, other stuff, no prob.	[17:26]
assbot	Logged on 12-10-2015 00:20:41; assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 23:39:50; mod6: One can do this for sure. The idea was, if the user just has the scrpit, and nothing else, they could sync all the latest wots/seals/vpatches from a mirror.	[17:26]
jurov	"the Glasgow Haskell compiler is written in Haskell: a 100,000-line application. "	[17:27]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: sure and how many lines is sbcl, and what is it written in?	[17:27]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: sbcl is an interesting beast. there are really two compilers (and before anyone asks, their semantic idempotence is neither proven nor provable) - a bootstrapper, in c, and a battlefield variant, in itself.	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	it is written in unmovable half ton steel cabinets, which makes it ok.	[17:28]
asciilifeform	mno that was zetalisp.	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	aok	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	so i could wipe this thinkpad and put lispos on it ?	[17:29]
asciilifeform	in principle! some schmuck actually ported sbcl to x86 'bare arse'	[17:29]
ben_vulpes	nah you'll have to buy the same computer that gabriel_laddel has	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes so it's not really half ton unmovable cabinets.	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	they're movable in that they don't exiswt.	[17:29]
asciilifeform	but you would actually have to buy the same computer he had	[17:29]
asciilifeform	(1990s)	[17:29]
asciilifeform	this is a result of the tower of babel situation re: pc hardware, rather than anything else.	[17:30]
ben_vulpes	iirc he's targeting something you can buy from dell today.	[17:30]
asciilifeform	dell today, gone tomorrow	[17:30]
mircea_popescu	^	[17:30]
asciilifeform	sop.	[17:30]
ben_vulpes	and with your combined mirrors...	[17:30]
mircea_popescu	one carly fiorina away from falling in the shitter./	[17:30]
ben_vulpes	"w0nder twin powers, activate!"	[17:30]
asciilifeform	i have opteron boxes from dell. afaik even this is out of print.	[17:30]
*	ben_vulpes eagerly awaits mslinux	[17:31]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307946 << no upheaval because there is not the vaguest inkling of a threat of anything like a robotic replacement for chix	[17:32]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 19:38:45; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307775 << 0 upheaval. what fucking upheaval ?	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	are you kidding ? "chix" in the sense of "out of the street human female" were replaced cca 2005.	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	who wants "a woman" ? nobody.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	plenty of folks	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	not so.	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	the poor arab beta boys want a RICH woman.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	they just 'aren't people' on mircea_popescu's planet	[17:33]
mircea_popescu	but the woman is an unwelcome addition to the resources.	[17:33]
mircea_popescu	and otherwise, people want a teenager.	[17:33]
asciilifeform	homo redditicus would kill worlds for one, no ?	[17:33]
mircea_popescu	"woman" as in, overweight, with college debt, with bad habits, with the entire baggage of having watched as much as 5 mionutes of for-women tv is worth less than a pig.	[17:33]
mircea_popescu	no.	[17:33]
mircea_popescu	if homo redditicus would pay as much as five borrowed dollars for "a woman" the us would look like argentina.	[17:34]
asciilifeform	for the bloke with bad-habits, baggage, debt, tv - what other thing is possible ?	[17:34]
mircea_popescu	but this is what "a woman" means.	[17:34]
mircea_popescu	she literally can't add.	[17:34]
jurov	reddit dudes are fighting to get women? that's new for me	[17:34]
jurov	asciilifeform: for any example?	[17:34]
jurov	*got any example	[17:34]
asciilifeform	jurov: they are not, strictly speaking	[17:34]
mircea_popescu	jurov the only example i can think of is bingoboingo's fake story	[17:34]
asciilifeform	any more than the ants in your cellar are 'fighting to take your house'	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	and notice that it was interestinfg to them PRECISELY because a) he did what they don't do (go for a woman) and b) it blew up in a way threy like.	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	the only marketable xx item in the us is, "15 yo runaway".	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, no.	[17:36]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307955 << it isn't a pure matter of joules, on account of envirowhinerism being a thing. also gotta have 'sufficiently low sulfur' etc.	[17:36]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 19:56:22; ben_vulpes: is "oil quality" something other than j/g?	[17:36]
asciilifeform	at least for usa/eu markets	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it is on account of refineries being pipes, with turns.	[17:36]
asciilifeform	this also.	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	that's all there is. now you gotta know an infinity about the fluid.	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	so there's epicly many layers to it.	[17:37]
asciilifeform	this is even (especially?) a problem for coal. if you have noncombustibles in there (and, increasingly, you do) you get ruined furnace, downtime, outages.	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	they actually have a liquefaction process (in the civilised world, not in the us) that significantly reduces the intellectual relevancy of this	[17:38]
asciilifeform	fischer-tropsch is back in fashion ?!	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	but one thing people DO NOT appreciate is that if i had to find the "lost meta-engineers" alf wants to have been in software	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	they are probably mostly oenologizing oil.	[17:38]
asciilifeform	as they were in 1944.	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform muchly improved.	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	as they were ever since 1885 or so	[17:38]
asciilifeform	aha, catalysts have come a long way.	[17:38]
jurov	asciilifeform: stuff like hydrocracking	[17:38]
*	asciilifeform admits to quietly following this subject	[17:39]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307976 << this looks spiffy but what is a cucumber test ?	[17:39]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 20:03:56; mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-October/000174.html	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, THIS is where good math would show before biotech	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	and they mostly don't have it even here.	[17:40]
mod6	asciilifeform: Cucumber tests are automated tests that will run specified scenarios against v.pl and assert various outcomes. [cucumber.io]	[17:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: aha. new catalyst takes perhaps a day to try.	[17:41]
asciilifeform	(vs a protein-diddler)	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	more importantly : have you tried it ?	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	how do you know when you've tried it ? what shape was it ? etc.	[17:41]
mod6	For instance, I assert all of the appropriate antecedents and decendants for each vpatch, etc.	[17:41]
asciilifeform	aha.	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	much easier to approach, and still hanging.	[17:41]
asciilifeform	mod6: neato	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	it's certainly impressive how that part works mod6	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	i've been learning a lot watching :D	[17:42]
asciilifeform	mod6: one aspect which i never fully fleshed out imho needs some thought: when the thing is hooked to a live wwwtron, what is to stop idiots from tossing in arbitrary signed crud from #b-a logs into it ?	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	i thought we had a header	[17:42]
mod6	i like it a lot. its sort of too bad that the step definitions behind the "gherkin" or cucumber scenarios are written in Perl, python may have been easier for people to digest. But I'm not as up too par on that.	[17:42]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what header	[17:42]
asciilifeform	diff's header ?	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	omg have i hallucinated yes	[17:43]
mod6	Ruby or others can be used as well...and I've only just started using Ruby as well. (which makes me feel dirty lol)	[17:43]
asciilifeform	plenty of things that don't belong (e.g., nonvdiffs, vdiffs that were not meant for use in anger) have same header.	[17:43]
punkman	asciilifeform: well for deedbot I hashed and checked for dupes	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform how would that be in "random signed crud" ?	[17:43]
asciilifeform	'random' is overstatement.	[17:43]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> it's certainly impressive how that part works mod6 << thx!	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	so then no, this is policy.	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	do not sign in the manner of v stuff you don't intend to be in v	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	or else it's your ass.	[17:43]
asciilifeform	point is that a malefactor could probably find something public with which to create headache if the mechanism 'takes anything signed like-so'	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	why, because things are signed by rabid yaks ?	[17:44]
asciilifeform	ideally not.	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	so do not do that!	[17:44]
asciilifeform	but my current thought is that antipatches will have to be a thing, yes.	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	huh ?	[17:45]
asciilifeform	e.g. funkenstein's latest patch will need an antipatch	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	no it won't. his branch will be ignored.	[17:45]
asciilifeform	(if his key remains in play)	[17:45]
asciilifeform	^	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	this is why mod6's leafing is important.	[17:45]
asciilifeform	but if funkenstein learns the ropes and remains a contributor, he will need to antipatch himself.	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	"you can fuck up at most once per trb release"	[17:45]
mod6	yeah. that patch won't be added into the mirror. now if someone wants to try out his patch locally, they'll have to pull his vpatch, and add his key to the wot manually and then see what happens if they want to press out a branch that includes that vpatch.	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	^	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	splendid design like that, what's wrong with it.	[17:46]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1307987 << this is the right thing.	[17:46]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 20:18:43; mod6: yeah, seals, and patches, but not wots.	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	right.	[17:47]
asciilifeform	the only item that requires manual handling in a correct vtron is keys.	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	you must also be able to describe which "version" you aim.	[17:47]
asciilifeform	naturally	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	well that solves it then.	[17:47]
asciilifeform	(considering that there is not a meaningful default for it, even in principle)	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	exactly. more importantly considering what this gives us :	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	99c53387aa14a176190880cb00c97fc950133f5af10f3ac is "gimp-v1.0" whereas 9cfb1fc045b401102d02b4ddf581efc7d84e810df28bf80 is "bitcoin v 1.8"	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	and i can even use the same trusted set of keys.	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	and it will know what to pull from either chain	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	ye ken ?	[17:49]
asciilifeform	naturally	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	and if key X took a fart in gimp-v-0.9 big deal, this won't see it anyway.	[17:49]
asciilifeform	it'll be more of a thing once we get the sha1 out of the loop though.	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	the huge problem tho, and im sure you have also been thinking on this on the quiet	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	is that if you set it to what ? sha512 ? little alf v2.0 will come in here and fuck your skull in 20 years	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	"oh how could you pick sha256!!1"	[17:50]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i solved this.	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	"simmer down wildman, it was GREAT in 2015!"	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	"it's 2035 gramps!"	[17:50]
asciilifeform	you will see how, and laugh, i predict.	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	aha ?	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	cool.	[17:50]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-10-2015#1298917 << thread where i sorta spilled the beans on this.	[17:51]
assbot	Logged on 14-10-2015 20:12:02; asciilifeform: i suppose i spoiled 'v' a month before publishing, and no one noticed it, so perhaps i ought to 'spoil' this one	[17:51]
mircea_popescu	aha you want it scriptable	[17:52]
asciilifeform	yes.	[17:52]
asciilifeform	no hardcoded algos, other than arithmetical. period.	[17:52]
mircea_popescu	perhaps. i dun see it yet, but this is mostly because i am not a coder myself.	[17:52]
*	mod6 thinks ont his	[17:53]
asciilifeform	prototype is essentially an 'rpn calculator' where you can push bignums on the stack and instruction 0x01 --> 'pop two, multiply, push back' or 0x70 --> modular-exponentiate, etc.	[17:53]
asciilifeform	the beauty is that with a few hundred bytes of overhead, it can eat standard gpg messages	[17:54]
asciilifeform	(working on reducing this)	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	if you are going to do this, you nut	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	why the fuck not make the machine ternary.	[17:54]
asciilifeform	gnarly on existing iron. doable	[17:55]
*	asciilifeform experimented.	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	who cares	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	so you mean my p4 will take 0.03 seconds instead of the 0.00007 ?	[17:55]
asciilifeform	cause all of a sudden a shr or shl is O(N) !	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	omaigerd.	[17:55]
asciilifeform	you wanne live with that?	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	what bytes ? i have 2jiggabits free	[17:55]
asciilifeform	time dimension.	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	you do not use shr or shl. you use proper algos.	[17:55]
asciilifeform	and they are made of what?	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	does trinary suck ?	[17:55]
asciilifeform	on a binary machine? yes	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	why is this a binary machine ?	[17:56]
asciilifeform	to be clear, i was speaking of emulated computer, not a physical one	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	i understand that. why is this machine of mine binary!	[17:56]
asciilifeform	given that i presently lack a fab	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	if i put two registers together, have i now made a trinary register ?	[17:56]
asciilifeform	take a sharp pencil and work out how base-n arithmetic is done on a base-m box.	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	leaving aside the technical talk, understand the high level strategic considerations.	[17:58]
asciilifeform	and what this costs.	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	IF we are ever going to do this, THIS is the place to test it.	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	the value is relatively small - oh noes, enemy is gonna mess up our code ? so yoy mean like on github ?!	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	the damage is immense - imagine, now they gotta learn ternary to even approach this!	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	find a way to do it in ternary you won a major engagement.	[17:58]
*	asciilifeform admits that he was very tempted to do precisely this. but went in for 'absolute minimum of moving parts' for the current experimental item, for reasons which are not difficult to understand	[18:00]
mircea_popescu	i can see the logic, yes	[18:00]
mircea_popescu	but this logic is better!	[18:00]
asciilifeform	aha but now can't use bignum stack from pgp 1.4, etc.	[18:00]
mircea_popescu	why not ?	[18:00]
mircea_popescu	stop telling me "can't" you'll get yourself fired	[18:00]
asciilifeform	because this is no longer emulating an ideal ternary box	[18:00]
mircea_popescu	what sort of job reversal is this!	[18:00]
asciilifeform	it'd be 'cheating'	[18:01]
mircea_popescu	so cheat.	[18:01]
asciilifeform	then in what sense is the result 'emulated ternary box' ?	[18:01]
asciilifeform	simply that we're encoding constants as ternaries ?	[18:01]
mircea_popescu	ideally that the algos are written for a ternary box	[18:02]
mircea_popescu	which is then WELL emulated on binary box.	[18:02]
asciilifeform	my understanding was that mircea_popescu is asking for a virtual version of something that could later be siliconized.	[18:02]
mircea_popescu	yup	[18:02]
jurov	why not just use urbit, gotta stand on shoulder of giants :D	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	word :D	[18:03]
asciilifeform	anyway it is inevitable that there will be multiple generations of this. it is a very thick mental cock that folks will have to slowly and methodically dilate for before it can fully park.	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	yep.	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	just gotta get clear where it's headed and what we want.	[18:04]
asciilifeform	i can already picture the reaction folks will have to my sha512 that takes 10,001 times longer than the customary one	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	fuck them	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	i can already picture the reaction "folks" will have to anything, from you going naked in the street to you making chirality engine.	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	forget about that.	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	and stop spamming wikipedia or what was it.	[18:04]
asciilifeform	lolwat	[18:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37630 @ 0.00053988 = 20.3157 BTC [+] {3}	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	didn't you get banned for spamming something or the other	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	stackoverflow ?	[18:05]
asciilifeform	bunchaplaces. but it was always 'we oughta ban' vs. proper ban	[18:05]
asciilifeform	(perhaps tlp could ascertain exactly why)	[18:05]
asciilifeform	i suppose even this gets 'meta'-d	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	i rcall one ridiculous instance was something about i dunno, b-a related somehow	[18:05]
asciilifeform	it was when some schmuck made a page on mircea_popescu at pediwikia	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	the specifics escape me. burt anyway	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	oh! that it was!	[18:06]
mircea_popescu	see ?	[18:06]
*	hazirafel has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[18:06]
*	asciilifeform bbl, off to do some maths	[18:06]
mircea_popescu	for bonus points : shoots all possible intel "optimization" in the head	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	with a caterpillar combine.	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	this, even if only prototyped, is well in excess of a billion dollars in nsa budget costs. which is, and will for a while be, quite sufficident.	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	or as usgavin_fucktardessen would say, "i always advocated engagement".	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/09/hot_sports_reporter_ines_sainz.html << daily tlp win.	[18:15]
assbot	The Last Psychiatrist: Hot Sports Reporter Ines Sainz Was Sexually Harassed ... ( http://bit.ly/1MkAiBg )	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	"What you want is to be able to behave sexy, or rude, or ridiculous, or offensive-- and still demand to be seen the way you want to be seen.	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	It may be unfair, but it is the most important fact of human existence: people exist independently of you."	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	Note the power set up. All you fools think that female reporters are in the locker rooms because it is some sort of measure of equality, "why should the males get the best interviews?" that this is somehow a success for equality, something that women had to struggle to earn, and you think that because you were told that.	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	Women didn't earn this over the resistance of an old boy network; the media conglomerates decided it would be awesome to televise a hyperfemale in a locker room with a nearly naked hypermale and pretend there's no sexuality implied. So anything that goes wrong is between individuals, nothing to do with the Machine.	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	CFNM, right there on ESPN.	[18:27]
mircea_popescu	mmmmyeah.	[18:27]
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jurov	http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/10/this-11-year-old-is-selling-cryptographically-secure-passwords-for-2-each/	[18:40]
assbot	This 11-year-old is selling cryptographically secure passwords for $2 each \| Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1Xse2r3 )	[18:40]
jurov	now that's business	[18:40]
trinque	As of now, she said she's sold "around 30" in total, including in-person sales. << Thanks, grandma!	[18:41]
mircea_popescu	younger than usagi	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	anyone recall that idiot's business idea ?	[18:43]
trinque	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2013#58527 << this thing?	[18:48]
assbot	Logged on 28-05-2013 04:34:42; usagi: Everything TU.SILVER does is better than any other similar business in the community, and I guarantee it will be that way forever, because, I have my legacy to consider	[18:48]
mod6	<+trinque> As of now, she said she's sold "around 30" in total, including in-person sales. << Thanks, grandma! << haha	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	nono	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	he had a "business" to make 8kb or larger rsa keys for "Cusomers"	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	"And you need not go further than one of our stores on midnight at the end of the month. And it's real interesting to watch, about 11 p.m., customers start to come in and shop, fill their grocery basket with basic items, baby formula, milk, bread, eggs,and continue to shop and mill about the store until midnight, when electronic -- government electronic benefits cards get activated and then the checkout starts and occu	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	rs. And our sales for those first few hours on the first of the month are substantially and significantly higher."	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	^ walmart ceo	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	bwahaha	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	"The global capitalist system is approaching an apocalyptic zero point... comprised by an ecological crisis, the consequences of a biogenetic revolution, imbalances within the system itself, and the explosive growth of social divisions and exclusions."	[19:06]
mircea_popescu	gotta hand it to the socialist mind. after having spent 50 years explaining how the predictable, obvious and necessary failures of both socialist systems seen to date "aren't really failures of socialism - because the nazis were evil and stalin was wrong),	[19:07]
mircea_popescu	now they move on to pretending like the failure of the third attempt as socialism was really called for no reason "capitalism" and lo and behold, socialism failing EVEN WHEN IT MASQUERADES AS CAPITALISM proves ~capitalism~ doesn't work.	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	there's a reason socialism is the ideology of the stupid, and it's this sorta fatlogic	[19:08]
mircea_popescu	"hey, i didn't lose any weight on that mcdonalds diet - because corporations are evil ; nor when i went to that magical fairy wicca woman, because she was a scammer. but it didn't even work while i was PRETENDING to be working out while watching chicks work out on tv! clearly dieting doesn' work! certainly being fat is the natural state of stupid people!"	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	yey, certainly.	[19:09]
mircea_popescu	capitalims got you from where your president couldn't afford to pay the bill to stay in a hotel in Europe, so he had to stay in the stable section of a cheap inn, to where you could derp about how things should be. it works.	[19:10]
mircea_popescu	what doesn't work is you derping about how things shiould be. never has. never will.	[19:11]
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mircea_popescu	http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/09/the_legend_of_steven_colbert.html << incidentally, this colbert incident should be studied - STUDIED, like i studied fucking seinfeld - by anyone aspiring to any sort of political (as opposed to technical) involvement in bitcoin.	[19:22]
assbot	The Last Psychiatrist: The Legend Of Steven Colbert ... ( http://bit.ly/1LPQvbZ )	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	the tv personality went there AS A TV PERSONALITY, to confront the other tv personalities. because that's what everyone in congress is : a b lister, of dubious talent, coming not from central casting but from ballot casting.	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	and he told them exactly what you'd expect : my magic is more powerful than your magic, notwithstanding that your magic contains a statement of its own all-powerfullness and my magic doies not. this is not the criteria.	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	the fact that i get a seat at the table and you have to wait for the reporters to invite you in, that's the criteria.	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	butthurt the hell out of the "system", too.	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	"I think his testimony was not appropriate,"	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	but what difference does it make what a senator [says he] thinks ?	[19:25]
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mircea_popescu	(and, note, colber's power has EXACTLY NOTHING to do with "TV" in the sense of "system". the franchises use actors in masks now, because they want to keep the copyrights, it's their "Character"\| and why should an actor get to own the face of their character. but colbert is not that. so, no, it's not the system.)	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	"From this very clear description of the problem comes the most terrible solution imaginable: let's go back to the authoritarian approach." << exactly. there is a reason the schelling points of failing socialism are always PERSONS. you don't like colbert, pick another Dear Leader. what you can not do is go all "country of laws not men", that's dead.	[19:29]
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mircea_popescu	and so you know, there's a b lister that's kinda half-black or whatever, from kenya. nobody cares. get all agitated when carson v2.0 turns out to be black.	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	that's why chris rock / chapelle were so important. they didn't make it tho.	[19:41]
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*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[19:48]
pete_dushenski	greetings and salutations !	[19:48]
pete_dushenski	i see that there's a modest pile of logs and quite a bit more trilema to catch up on.	[19:49]
pete_dushenski	j'espere que vous avez tous passez une belle fin de semaine	[19:50]
jurov	plus #eulora. plus btc-dev mailing list. plus tlp. plus....	[19:50]
pete_dushenski	i spent the who weekend speaking french so i'm still thinking in it lol	[19:51]
pete_dushenski	whole*	[19:51]
pete_dushenski	jurov: it never ends !	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	jurov ikr ? i've been spamming the shit out of tlp, but the truth is it's a much more convenient format than trying to make all thgese half and quarter articles into trilema items.	[19:51]
pete_dushenski	not that i'm looking for it to end, mind oyu	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	for that matter - im almost done with 2010, there's only ~4 years left, i should hope im done this month.	[19:52]
mircea_popescu	i do however hold all these as conversation openers, if anyone ever feels like delving into one of the articles etc i'll be happy to hear the conversations. truth is digesting tlp will take more than just this.	[19:53]
mircea_popescu	this incident aside, the cultural production of b-a/b,tmsr~/the cult/however you wish to call it is both scary and exploding on an exponential. i dunno how we'll cope.	[19:54]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: going through tlp that methodically and chronologically is sure to yield an interesting unfolding of intellectual development. it'd be pretty well impossible to do with with trilema unless one also spoke ro, but even just the last three years of reading would be a hell of a journey/mindtrip	[19:54]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski unlike in the case of tlp, i'm also here to scream back.	[19:55]
mircea_popescu	imagine how the past two weeks would have looked like if ballas was actually up there in the wot.	[19:55]
pete_dushenski	too true	[19:55]
pete_dushenski	you think it'd be that different ? he doesn't seem like much of a boxer	[19:55]
pete_dushenski	would prolly read comments and say "yup, point taken	[19:56]
pete_dushenski	"	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	how wopuld one know.	[19:56]
pete_dushenski	based on comments on tlp.com ?	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	mebbe so huh.	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	i confess i almost never read the comments.	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	for the random pile of asciilifeform's aftermarket shocks : http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/09/fanapt_deconstructing_a_promot.html	[20:02]
assbot	The Last Psychiatrist: Fanapt: Deconstructing A Promotional Slide Deck ... ( http://bit.ly/1GrjOVw )	[20:02]
pete_dushenski	ballas isn't even fiesty nor viligent enough to block spam from coming through. "hermes bags! cheap jeans!" abound.	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	turns out fanapt has 5ht7 activity, afaik tlp is right : unique to this drug	[20:02]
pete_dushenski	and then there's the plain bizarre comments such as "Am the happiest woman on earth,, my husband just called me this mornings after divorcing for another woman going to 6Months with the help of this man i met on this site please help me to thank him and the author of this site his name is Dr Aida Wedo His phone number is +2348115436578 his email is africanvoodoorituals@gmail.com my name is William Sarah am from	[20:04]
pete_dushenski	Ohio Thank you very much for your help"	[20:04]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-10-2015#1307034 << sounds about right for a man this comfortable with his alcoholism and at the age where he'd have the perspective to recognise it as such	[20:06]
assbot	Logged on 24-10-2015 19:40:09; mircea_popescu: in other news, intel finally teased out tlp's email. if anyone cares, he's 52. etc.	[20:06]
pete_dushenski	much younger and he's just 'enjoying life', much older and he wouldn't be blogging.	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	guess so.	[20:10]
pete_dushenski	convenient ex post narrative but hey, why not	[20:11]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: didja drop tlp an email then ?	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	yea	[20:19]
pete_dushenski	just invite him here or... ?	[20:20]
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mircea_popescu	!up pf2k	[20:55]
-assbot-	You voiced pf2k for 30 minutes.	[20:55]
*	assbot gives voice to pf2k	[20:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59615 @ 0.00053797 = 32.0711 BTC [-] {3}	[21:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00054596 = 17.9621 BTC [+] {3}	[21:21]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: l0l re: the prolactin	[21:22]
asciilifeform	phun exercise: loop up what prolactin ~inhibitors~ do in human male.	[21:23]
asciilifeform	*look up	[21:23]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo, gabriel_laddel ^	[21:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17710 @ 0.00054603 = 9.6702 BTC [+] {2}	[21:25]
*	assbot removes voice from pf2k	[21:26]
BingoBoingo	lol	[21:28]
asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1308259 << pet sayeth: 'how does mircea_popescu square his masked-superhero-for-fungibility theory with the fact that the actors appear maskless for long stretches of any one of these films ?'	[21:30]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[21:30]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 22:26:01; mircea_popescu: (and, note, colber's power has EXACTLY NOTHING to do with "TV" in the sense of "system". the franchises use actors in masks now, because they want to keep the copyrights, it's their "Character"\| and why should an actor get to own the face of their character. but colbert is not that. so, no, it's not the system.)	[21:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44500 @ 0.0005479 = 24.3816 BTC [+] {2}	[21:32]
BingoBoingo	Well, they way they've handled it in the past is they just change actors and STFU. In the past 12 years the Hulk was Eric Bana, then it was Edward Norton, the Mark something or other. Cattle doesn't care.	[21:32]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2015#1308238 << did he also offer a deflowering service ?	[21:33]
assbot	Logged on 25-10-2015 21:51:05; mircea_popescu: he had a "business" to make 8kb or larger rsa keys for "Cusomers"	[21:33]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: the theory was, iirc, 'audience won't notice because mask'	[21:33]
BingoBoingo	Noticing happens in degrees.	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform we did the entire male milking thing with bb a few months ago	[21:36]
asciilifeform	nonono	[21:36]
asciilifeform	~inhibitors~	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	oh.	[21:36]
asciilifeform	i won't spoil it, will let folks drop their jaws when they look up precisely what.	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	ask pet how does she square the fact that women can't be seen without makeup/their pursew with the fact that most of their existence they spend without either ?	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	"in public!!11"	[21:37]
asciilifeform	speaking only of the particular pet, it is innocent of makeup, and has purse solely because pockets are not consistently implemented in woman's clothing	[21:37]
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mircea_popescu	what was it, impotence ?	[21:37]
asciilifeform	nope.	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yes, but the way this works isn't like the man in the iron mask. the way this works is to create a fetish of power. "why is X no longer Y ? how can Z become now Y ?" "it's the mask, stupid"	[21:38]
asciilifeform	!s cabergoline	[21:38]
assbot	0 results for 'cabergoline' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cabergoline	[21:38]
asciilifeform	^ hm. looks like this one isn't in the logz!	[21:38]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: then - yes.	[21:39]
asciilifeform	makes sense.	[21:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14624 @ 0.00054742 = 8.0055 BTC [-]	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	"Partial isolated prolactin deficiency is rare, and case reports of total isolated prolactin deficiency are rarer still and may have a genetic component (ie, familial puerperal alactogenesis). Although the endocrine and metabolic function of prolactin is not fully understood, the clinical manifestation of prolactin deficiency is probably limited to puerperal alactogenesis." << sayeth Charles T Benson, MD, PhD	[21:39]
asciilifeform	aka 'salute the uniform, not the man.'	[21:39]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is re: females	[21:39]
asciilifeform	notice 'alactogenesis'	[21:39]
asciilifeform	the riddle concerned what it does in males.	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	no refractory period ?	[21:40]
*	mircea_popescu is left guessing	[21:40]
asciilifeform	aha!	[21:40]
asciilifeform	dingdingding	[21:40]
asciilifeform	winner.	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	o lol.	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	this is NOT desirable tho	[21:40]
asciilifeform	there ~is~ apparently an underground market in the drug	[21:40]
asciilifeform	and in the other one, whose name escapes me, which ~doesn't~ also slowly atrophy your heart	[21:41]
asciilifeform	but apparently (i have not verified this personally, nor do i intend to),	[21:41]
asciilifeform	chemistry has an answer for 'i want a female orgasm damnit and fuck the consequences'	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	i am satisfied that i have had rather female orgasms.	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	the trick is, very well trained fellationist.	[21:42]
asciilifeform	how many per minute.	[21:43]
mircea_popescu	not how it works. the trick is very slow stimulation. takes the usual half hour	[21:44]
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mircea_popescu	after which you spend however long having lithe orgasms	[21:44]
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asciilifeform	at any rate, prolactin appears to be reused in the male as 'off switch.'	[21:45]
asciilifeform	why - ask it, not me.	[21:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81450 @ 0.00054083 = 44.0506 BTC [-] {2}	[21:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87592 @ 0.00053219 = 46.6156 BTC [-] {3}	[22:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12075 @ 0.00053171 = 6.4204 BTC [-] {2}	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[22:18]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 286.8, Best ask: 286.94, Bid-ask spread: 0.14000, Last trade: 286.8, 24 hour volume: 37571.85862019, 24 hour low: 281.2, 24 hour high: 295.99, 24 hour vwap: None	[22:18]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[22:21]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 285.09, vol: 30655.51471028 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 276.625, vol: 10094.93123 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 286.5, vol: 37571.85862019 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 274.09, vol: 0.72974198 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 293.6367, vol: 63823.40580000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 284.40969, vol: 113.93651011 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 273.3704, vol: 135.06881874 \| Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)	[22:21]
BingoBoingo	;;more	[22:21]
gribble	288.680941668	[22:21]
*	asciilifeform l0lz at the fact that one can get a usg mil-std portable for < 300 usd new	[22:26]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40532 @ 0.0005395 = 21.867 BTC [+] {2}	[22:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92700 @ 0.00053156 = 49.2756 BTC [-] {2}	[23:03]
kakobrekla	url?	[23:06]
asciilifeform	of what?	[23:08]
kakobrekla	you speak of computer no?	[23:09]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:09]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[23:09]
gribble	Current Blocks: 380564 \| Current Difficulty: 6.088382548009828E10 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 381023 \| Next Difficulty In: 459 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 23 hours, 31 minutes, and 56 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[23:09]
asciilifeform	dell's 'chromebook 11'. but keep in mind 1) it requires heavy-duty massage to transform into something like a civilized pc and 2) 'mil-std' is not 'stops rifle bullet' but simply means it passed some degree of traditional vibration, dust, water tortures.	[23:10]
asciilifeform	and has rubber all over it.	[23:10]
kakobrekla	all i need to know.	[23:10]
asciilifeform	this one's an intel box.	[23:10]
asciilifeform	(the chrome-widgets come in two varieties, arm and intel)	[23:11]
asciilifeform	out of the box they are quite useless, a kind of 'webtv'	[23:11]
asciilifeform	(for those who remember 1990s)	[23:11]
asciilifeform	these have the distinction of being riotously cheap - no microshit tax in the price.	[23:12]
asciilifeform	for some years i have experiment, on and off, with transforming them into something like a computer	[23:12]
asciilifeform	with variable success.	[23:12]
asciilifeform	(e.g., i had a vivisected arm chromebook with me in romania, as disposable comp.)	[23:12]
Zuardi	asciilifeform do you use crouton or have replaced the webtv completely?	[23:14]
asciilifeform	Zuardi: generally you gotta use crouton to reflash the rom in. after that, proper linux.	[23:16]
asciilifeform	Zuardi: depending on whether you have the patience, you can use 'buildroot' or similar to cook one.	[23:16]
Zuardi	asciilifeform I have a samsung arm one, but still using crouton	[23:17]
asciilifeform	also typically there is a write-protect jumper on the eeprom in the box, that has to be removed.	[23:17]
asciilifeform	i have the early samsung arm box, and a few others	[23:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33458 @ 0.00053059 = 17.7525 BTC [-] {3}	[23:18]
kakobrekla	so mil chromebooks server as disposable terminals? how could those nettops be used for anything anyway?	[23:18]
kakobrekla	serve*	[23:18]
asciilifeform	the jumper in the samsung is a circular sticker of conductive rubber in the upper edge of the mb	[23:18]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: the dell is a normal intel box inside, just with weird bios.	[23:18]
asciilifeform	what, if anything, in your household calls for one of these things, i cannot say.	[23:19]
kakobrekla	what, a closed turd from google?	[23:19]
asciilifeform	aha! how'd you guess.	[23:19]
asciilifeform	to add insult to injury, gentoo-based!	[23:19]
asciilifeform	(google uses the gpl as a urinal and has, for years. this is not, i think, a secret.)	[23:20]
kakobrekla	so ms will control the govts and google the mil	[23:20]
asciilifeform	google just makes the firmware for these, as i understand.	[23:21]
kakobrekla	just?	[23:22]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:22]
asciilifeform	it isn't a hardware co.	[23:22]
kakobrekla	firmware so innocent.	[23:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00053233 = 4.4183 BTC [+]	[23:23]
asciilifeform	anyway 1st step to using one of these boxes as something like a computer is reformat, naturally.	[23:23]
asciilifeform	but use case is pretty narrow.	[23:25]
asciilifeform	('need a computer, that is lightweight, but for taking to a place where it is likely to grow legs, e.g., airport)	[23:26]
asciilifeform	they also work ok for running lab instruments (laser, cnc, etc) while taking minimal desk space.	[23:27]
asciilifeform	i cannot recommend them (or any other intel box) for 'airgapped crypto', missile control, reactor, etc.	[23:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71000 @ 0.00052726 = 37.4355 BTC [-] {3}	[23:29]
*	kdomanski has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[23:38]
*	mitch_callahan (~mitch_cal@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:41]
*	kdomanski (~kdomanski@kolimator.pl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:43]

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