Forum logs for 22 Oct 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers ! zoolag is nao back in service. [00:04]
Mocky: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-21-oct-2018#2488335 >> there are some important things that are going to be brought to life by the republic and sure as shit they aren't gonna wait for Qatar to buy in. rather, if the outward appearance is correct and there are men of valor here who can recognize the opportunity then this will be their chance to play host to some business and profit exactly to the degree of their continued valor and foresight and not one riyal more [00:57]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-21 21:59 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864468 << you're very much not there to sell anything you realise this, do you ? [00:57]
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=61 << Bimbo.Club - For posterity [01:55]
bvt: !!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 1 [03:02]
lobbesbot: bvt: Sent 8 hours and 57 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/djVz4/?raw=true [03:02]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/x40zC/?raw=true [03:02]
bvt: !!v 314FFA01ECAE3BF4FD9863521D78063D3329D513BBF082B11172B54A17B8A7B3 [03:03]
deedbot: bvt paid BingoBoingo invoice 1 [03:03]
bvt: BingoBoingo: ty [03:03]
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=62 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 08/23/2018 [03:14]
jurov: !!v 68CE9AA8A07E2E58149ED554C1F66977CA4247BEED4B84D1E53EAC44DC33C710 [05:49]
jurov: !!v D6501B76142629F8BA195E6D012B636FFA3ECE2C2D2EAE7C9BB2719A55238146 [05:58]
deedbot: jurov paid BingoBoingo invoice 2 [05:58]
jurov: ^^ the first try was !!pay BingoBoingo 2 [06:00]
jurov: which caused mild confusion as i don't have so much on the acct and deedbot said nothing [06:00]
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864612 << you may laugh, but at work we have a database access thingy that we have to use with Internet Explorer, because it doesn't work right when using other programs (the thing is a Microshit product) [08:17]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 00:01 asciilifeform: ( what's next, internet exploder comes back.. ) [08:17]
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07d-klausenburg.html << The Tar Pit - Klausenburg, et alia [08:22]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864635 >> 'Romanian museum keepers are, with very, very, very few exceptions, a bunch of fucking orcs' >> verily. asciilifeform was in timis art gallery, and they offered tickets for extra penny 'take pictures', i gave'em. then i pull out camera, buncha old biddies immediately appear out of nowhere, like swarm of rats, stand in front of my lens like matrosov in front of german mg nest. finally i pul [09:58]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 12:22 deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07d-klausenburg.html << The Tar Pit - Klausenburg, et alia [09:58]
asciilifeform: l the hand-written (!) ticket from pocket, wave at'em, they scatter. [09:58]
asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque is http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/ still most recent cuntoo ? i got errything ready to bake cuntoo lappy ( the oddball lcd box old ssd from zoolag ) should proceed or wait for update ? ty [10:08]
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [10:08]
BingoBoingo: bvt: Thank you, let me now if you have any questions along the way. [10:11]
BingoBoingo: !!ledger [10:11]
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Aoxgu/?raw=true [10:11]
BingoBoingo: jurov: Can confirm that the "!!pay BingoBoingo 2" did not go through. Made a note to look out for it if it does pop up in my ledger at some point. [10:14]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2018/10/tech-press-touting-latest-google-fritz-chip/#comment-119671 [11:08]
asciilifeform: the 'blue wall of heathendom silence' breaks!111 : [11:09]
asciilifeform: 'Register reader Stanislav writes in to inform us that the tech might not be so new and cutting edge, after all. In fact, he points to an analysis he wrote back in June detailing a similar set up on-chip security features that were going into Chromebooks' [11:09]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Win! [11:09]
mircea_popescu: heh. [11:17]
mircea_popescu: IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT!!! [11:18]
asciilifeform: 'even broom fires once' [11:20]
* asciilifeform has been cycling the bolt and pulling trigger on that broom for yrs... this is 1st afaik round that fired [11:20]
mircea_popescu: this is rank nonsense. it fires almost every time. then Mommy comes along and generally spirits the young cunt away. [11:23]
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/metla.jpg << oblig [11:23]
mircea_popescu: but this is ABSOLUTELY no reason to stop talking to girlies. [11:23]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly [11:23]
* asciilifeform expects that piece will be replaced with 'the heavy cost of japanese toilets' or sumsuch , shortly.. [11:25]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864476 << this entire discussion is going kinda backwards. the idea is to buy ourselves some cheap qataris, not to sell them anything. [11:26]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 18:34 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I don't think so I think they would pay *you* that 500k if you manage to convince them that you are worth that for them [11:26]
mircea_popescu: who are they anyway ? human tech made for humans. [11:26]
asciilifeform: i had nfi there were 'cheap qataris' [11:27]
asciilifeform: iirc place consists of 100k barons and ~3mil india derps [11:27]
mircea_popescu: so a dozen of them barons then. [11:27]
* asciilifeform does not know. so far knows only what Mocky ferreted out. [11:31]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864487 << hey, i do it... [11:32]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 18:40 Mocky: came across like simpleton management, decree whatever occurs to you, dilbert-esque pointy haired manager on steroids [11:32]
mircea_popescu: simpleton management best management (provided you have the requisite simpletons). [11:32]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864490 << because etsy morons, trying to do the egyptian "fat white woman" (see ) thing except "Better". so they "live independently" as #metoo dumbcunts. [11:35]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 18:41 diana_coman: so why are those people starting doggy rescue/care biznis in qatar of all places? [11:35]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1852974 << item. [11:36]
a111: Logged on 2018-09-23 16:08 mircea_popescu: the ones who won out of the "go to the center of businessmen, pay for dialup modem by hour, write love letters to fat white women, get them to come over with money, build house at euro standards for tourist trade" lottery. [11:36]
mircea_popescu: though i thought i had much older description of same thing. but anyways. [11:36]
mircea_popescu: all the 30something should-have-been-in-chains femcrowd can think of these days is "animal rescue center". this generation's hairdressing salon, because it's literally the same biologically material reproduced across the decade gap. [11:38]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: btw what's the intended profit model for those ? fat-rendering ? [11:39]
mircea_popescu: what was the profit model for the addidas-clad gopnic wife-and-girlfirned's "beauty parlor" ? [11:40]
asciilifeform: ... cash laundry ? [11:40]
mircea_popescu: "well... it'll attract younger dumb cunts just like me, you can fuck them in the back. and it'll keep me busye enough to shut the fuck up" [11:40]
mircea_popescu: no gopnik ever said "how about you actually run a harem then", and so... [11:40]
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864658 -> ah, I was answering Stan there, not implying Mocky is there to sell anything [11:43]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 15:26 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864476 << this entire discussion is going kinda backwards. the idea is to buy ourselves some cheap qataris, not to sell them anything. [11:43]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought harem were sop in arabistan tho [11:44]
mircea_popescu: yeah... just got that vibe [11:44]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently special snowflake is sop in whitewomanistan, tho. i dunno, i care but slightly. [11:44]
asciilifeform: just how many 'white snowflakes' in qatar [11:44]
mircea_popescu: but there's a lengthy and well documented history of white woman being so far removed from the whip and restraint, she will stubornly do the -ev dumbthing "because it doesn't matter anyway" "i have my own oppinions and experiences" etc. [11:45]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect all the females he yet spoke with. [11:45]
asciilifeform: ( so far from Mocky's description, picture seems like entire place consists of -- handful of natives, owning the petropipe, and much larger set of gastarbeiters servicing pipe + palaces + plumbing etc. 0 agriculture, 0 industry, pipe economy, possibly ~0 lumpens, quite unlike mircea_popescu's egypt ) [11:47]
mircea_popescu: well egypt is the larger arab state. qatar (with brunei and whatnot, oman) the smallest. so yes. [11:47]
diana_coman: in other news from the smg comms front: the rsa pack/unpack turned a bit nastier than the nice serpent because (of course!) of the C element basically the rsa operations are in C (mpi mess) while the oaep is in Ada and the current eucrypt wrapper is fine but doing the ugly dance of C to Ada *and back* my solution to this is to decree that there will be only ONE direction of calls namely from Ada to C (because Ada is the main, desired par [11:48]
diana_coman: t in there) [11:48]
mircea_popescu: we'll have to adaize rsa, for srs. [11:48]
* asciilifeform back on that track, incidentally, shelved pretty much errything else [11:49]
diana_coman: yes, but preparing for that: wrappers in C for the methods so they don't export "mpi" shit but simply octets [11:49]
diana_coman: and then Ada will call those [11:49]
asciilifeform: i dunno that mine will ever be fast enuff for eulora without asm inline tho [11:49]
diana_coman: and everything will be called from Ada only, not the other way around [11:49]
diana_coman: but because of all this it's taking still a bit more time to get out the next chapter [11:50]
diana_coman: will probably cut it in 2 parts two, namely the wrappers first and then the whole big .vpatch bringing in everything needed (mpi, keccak, oaep-but-this-time-from-ada-only) [11:51]
asciilifeform: tho nao that i think about it, i could be wrong : [11:51]
asciilifeform: hrm where is that protocol page [11:51]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform good. [11:52]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, once this is in place, it should be relatively painless to swap at a later stage (whenever available) the C rsa/mpi for an Ada implementation since it's basically kept well separate [11:53]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: precisely what length is the rsa key currently ? [11:53]
mircea_popescu: yeah. [11:53]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean for eu ? [11:53]
asciilifeform: yes [11:53]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, 490 octets [11:53]
asciilifeform: 3920 bit ? [11:53]
mircea_popescu: shorter than "general" format. eu uses 490byte, "we" use 512. that'd be the upper bound. [11:53]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, for eulora, yes [11:54]
mircea_popescu: yes 3920. http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#selection-555.55-555.59 [11:54]
asciilifeform: got it, ty [11:55]
asciilifeform: soo from my pov it's still a 4096bit key ( my rsa worx strictly on powers of 2 ) [11:56]
mircea_popescu: but imo, if you're going to put some kind of limit on it... make it 512 [11:56]
mircea_popescu: right [11:56]
asciilifeform: my current best 4096bit modexp is still 22 sec. on the 'standard' test iron. but with barrett ( next ch. ) cuts down to ~5sec iirc and with asm, hypothetically <1s [11:58]
asciilifeform: then again if rsa is only used to register new user, even the current proggy is conceivably fast enuff [11:58]
mircea_popescu: i agree. [11:58]
mircea_popescu: kinda built around all this. [11:59]
asciilifeform: most of asciilifeform's arithmatical massage is so that key ~gen~ can be carried out on human, rather than geologic, timescale [12:00]
mircea_popescu: o hai Mocky [12:01]
mircea_popescu: !!up Mocky [12:02]
deedbot: Mocky voiced for 30 minutes. [12:02]
Mocky: greetings [12:03]
asciilifeform: ( btw for thread-completeness i gotta point out that asciilifeform spends most time on a rather slow box, that 22 is actually a 10 on recent x86 iron ) [12:03]
asciilifeform: ohai Mocky [12:03]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864492 << it's the fashionable thing, whatever. [12:05]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 18:41 asciilifeform: diana_coman: ikr? it's the last thing i'd think of pitching to dar-al-islam [12:05]
diana_coman: I don't really see a problem from eulora's pov with 22 secs for rsa encrypt - it's not for in-game server-client communications so... [12:06]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: conceivably could get expensive if derps start spamming crapola user regs [12:07]
mircea_popescu: precisely why we put serpent in there, so alf can go pig wild with his intricate rsaing :D [12:07]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's why it's "best effort" anyway. [12:07]
mircea_popescu: we already have a process whereby i can create an acct in the future i just won't care to use it for joe random is all. [12:07]
asciilifeform: rright but if it takes 22 sec to distinguish man from pig, and pig comes in at 10^7 packets/sec... [12:07]
diana_coman: re fashionable things - yes, quite my thought there was that hmmm, those are therefore not exactly much of any sort of business people etsy-style exactly, yes [12:07]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can just come in here, distinguish self. [12:08]
asciilifeform: that'd work [12:08]
mircea_popescu: the onus for anon to distinguish SELF from pig is on the anon in question. [12:08]
mircea_popescu: never on me jaysus. [12:08]
mircea_popescu: i think i even linked a fetlife discussion re this. "bitch, YOU are doing the work to see if you'd fit in my harem, not i. wtf!" [12:08]
asciilifeform: the box still gotta eat an rsa thing to establish 1st session, neh [12:08]
asciilifeform: tho hm i get it [12:08]
asciilifeform: can simply look up the expected key in curated db, prior to modexp [12:09]
asciilifeform: so yea slow rsa would in principle work even today. [12:09]
diana_coman: how's the AC, Mocky ? [12:10]
Mocky: still broke, but it still isnt' a problem. fan blows on me and I sleep fine. 3 day of rain in the dessert. got soaked today waiting for taxi for 30 minutes during downpour which stopped the moment i got in the cab [12:12]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864509 << this is a dubious proposition, seeing how you don't have the cultural finesse to resolve disputes between orcs. [12:12]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 18:47 Mocky: Being as the requirement for standard LLC is 51% Qatari ownership, this new info suggests to me that having two locals who split the 51% may be the way to go. They can still close it down but not at the whim of a single person. [12:12]
Mocky: I still have 4 leads to finish chasing down re not needing a Qatari to form a company. not necessarily promising leads but still need to get to the truth of them [12:14]
mircea_popescu: defo. [12:14]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman : '6.3. The server will issue type 5.2 messages encrypted to the corresponding client RSA key in response to any client messages for as long as it doesn't have a preferred client Serpent key set. The client is responsible for either maintaining or explicitly burning ~all~ of these, and will pay for them in any case' means that if a serpent key is currently set, serv won't issue another unless client explic [12:18]
asciilifeform: itly extinguishes the old ? [12:18]
mircea_popescu: can convey serpent keys over serpent too. [12:21]
asciilifeform: right [12:21]
asciilifeform: so then as i understand , rsa 'ddos' is not possible, i.e. 'allcomer' cannot force serv to perform a modexp simply by asking. [12:22]
mircea_popescu: right. [12:23]
asciilifeform: or rather, it can only be done in the (short) interval between the registration of new user's rsa pub, and his 1st session [12:23]
asciilifeform: or if somehow user extinguishes all of his serpent keys without immediately transmitting a replacement [12:23]
mircea_popescu: i'm really not that concerned with it. [12:24]
asciilifeform: ( it is not currently obvious to me from the spec that this is not a legal op ) [12:24]
mircea_popescu: there's mechanisms in place, forget abvout it. [12:24]
* asciilifeform believes [12:24]
asciilifeform: and yea, makes sense, $spec is for ~client~, deliberately does not detail how spam control, i presume it's an in-house matter. [12:25]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864516 << it is a fact that arab man makes the best friend wanna-be humans (like say russkis) manage to emulate this inb software, but usually takes lengthy prison stint together / trench time / whatever such exceptional circumstance. otherwise... rare. [12:26]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 18:50 diana_coman: Mocky, I wonder though how much those burnt partners actually catered to the qatari partner as an ongoing relationship rather than just "he gives money for my biznis" (and how the hell is a charity a business, ugh) [12:26]
mircea_popescu: whereas #metoo-level tard is very "wordsmith" in her own mind, names and labesl and magic incantations all have incredible power and how would the world dare not conform! SHE WANTS A BETTER WORLD DID NOT SIGN UP FOR THIS. [12:27]
mircea_popescu: so i can readily see how and why this'd break down, and especially i can see why they'd register the specific complaint in the specific terminology with mocky. who knows, maybe bitcoin was made for their mula's stupid cunt, and maybe the republic is just pantsuitism++. maybe i sent mocky there to finallty right all "wrongs" ? [12:28]
mircea_popescu: jesusmocky. [12:28]
asciilifeform: lol! [12:28]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864523 << is it still the 90s ? "rolex" still counts for "Flashy" somewhere ? [12:30]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 18:53 Mocky: asciilifeform, this I haven't heard, but flashy stuff like rolex, lambos, bentleys I have heard [12:30]
* mircea_popescu has not worn wristwatch in like decade+ now... who still does ? why would they ? [12:30]
Mocky: well when everyone wears the exact same white robes everyday, a watch is pretty much only place on the body for bling [12:31]
mircea_popescu: bitch srsly need to tell time for some reason, because wherever they're going ain't gonna just wait till they get there anyway or what is it, no woman in a loose fitted top about to point out "hey, we should get going if we're ever going to make X" ? [12:31]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if pete_dushenski was to be believed, rolex per se is 100% chump market item in recent yrs, strictly for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1852974 people [12:31]
a111: Logged on 2018-09-23 16:08 mircea_popescu: the ones who won out of the "go to the center of businessmen, pay for dialup modem by hour, write love letters to fat white women, get them to come over with money, build house at euro standards for tourist trade" lottery. [12:31]
mircea_popescu: Mocky maybe you should start a crown trend. [12:32]
Mocky: i'm not wise to the ways of watches, wouldn't recognize a rolex. "shiny watch" works for my description [12:32]
mircea_popescu: nothing says "king of the world" quite like wearing 20lbs of lightning rod on head. [12:32]
Mocky: i'd fucking rock a crown [12:32]
asciilifeform: heat sink!111 [12:32]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except it sinks the wrong way lmao [12:33]
mircea_popescu: heat shitfountain morelike it. [12:33]
asciilifeform: well you stick fan on it, so it sinks 'right way', neh [12:33]
mircea_popescu: Mocky srsly now, these uber-elaborate heatsink-like items made to wear on head, out of 22 carat gold... could be a trent. [12:33]
asciilifeform: ( + peltier!11 ) [12:33]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform plus if it's a nice looking hedgehog could headbutt someone for max payne. [12:34]
asciilifeform: easily, with the red-hot biznis end [12:34]
asciilifeform: tschsssss. [12:34]
mircea_popescu: hey, disinfects as it wounds. [12:34]
Mocky: lol [12:34]
asciilifeform: put brand on it. [12:34]
mircea_popescu: ahaha epic. [12:35]
Mocky: https://christopherpierznik.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/ll-cool-j.jpg [12:36]
asciilifeform: re 'rolex' etc -- i've only ever seen'em on (usually) arab orcs ~in usa~ . they dun actually look at the time, lol, i suspect they dun even set the thing, it's strictly part of 'gentleman's uniform', by their lights, like sword used to be [12:37]
Mocky: *lots* of jewelry stores here with shiny watches [12:37]
asciilifeform: there was an old mircea_popescu piece with gypsies living in abandoned tunnels, where they had a desk fulla old sov-era phones, with 0 wiring, strictly for 'rolexism' [12:39]
Mocky: to my eyes, uniform includes shiny watch and a landrover, or lexus suv (with which to intimidate slave labor on the roadway) [12:39]
Mocky: vehicle size seems a status symbol. "if a bigger one is speeding up from behind, get out of the way!" [12:40]
Mocky: also, that could be good advice in general [12:41]
mircea_popescu: it's a wonder they don't drive busses, [12:43]
mircea_popescu: fuck, put some hinges on old airbus at the wings, drive THAT. not only big but also fucken tall! and it can flap its wings! [12:43]
BingoBoingo: <Mocky> still broke, but it still isnt' a problem. fan blows on me and I sleep fine. 3 day of rain in the dessert. got soaked today waiting for taxi for 30 minutes during downpour which stopped the moment i got in the cab << The incredible similarities to Uruguay [12:45]
Mocky: if I had my ford expedition here, I'd be the king of the road. land rovers are a good bit smaller [12:47]
BingoBoingo: There's landrovers here too, and the doinky commercial trucks... No big rigs here [12:48]
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864770 << It's obvious they haven't caught up to pete_dushenski yet [12:48]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 16:30 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864523 << is it still the 90s ? "rolex" still counts for "Flashy" somewhere ? [12:48]
Mocky: all the cars here are normal models you'd find in the us, except there are a few toyota models I've never heard of: "fortuner" is one [12:49]
Mocky: and some vw looking toyota busses [12:49]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it wouldn't surprise me if 'rolex watch' is eventually displaced by a wrist-strapped gold brick stamped with word 'rolex' or some other such substitute. sorta how gentleman swords were replaced with jewel-encrusted lolsticks prior to vanishing entirely [12:50]
Mocky: unlike london where I coudn't place any cars [12:50]
BingoBoingo: Ah, no Chinese cars? [12:50]
Mocky: asciilifeform, I was told they have gold brick atms here [12:50]
asciilifeform: aha! so yes like dubai [12:50]
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864784 << Don't forget to shave and lube head for good thermal contact [12:51]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 16:33 asciilifeform: well you stick fan on it, so it sinks 'right way', neh [12:51]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why wouldja expect chinese cars in a place where only moneyed folx and their liveried servants get driver license [12:51]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the jewel-encrusted lolsticks still packed some bite. it's just they packed an urban bite. [12:51]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well what are the Uber taxi-ists going to drive? [12:51]
mircea_popescu: problem was very much "what does useless son say to city guard" "oh, it's for decor" "not for stabbing other cicisbeos ?" "well... not usually..." [12:52]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i.e. for whacking uppity lackey, rather than other sword ? [12:52]
mircea_popescu: for whacking other guy encountered unexpectedly under moonlight [12:52]
mircea_popescu: oh! juliet! oh romeo! what did you say bitch ?! [12:52]
asciilifeform: rright but what if other-guy pulls an actual sword [12:53]
asciilifeform: ( or brace o'pistols ) [12:53]
mircea_popescu: but getting back to the hinged-wing airbus thread : you could also add a modified horn... some hydraulics... [12:53]
mircea_popescu: i suspect if you drove that on the highway at night most people would just park the car and go out [12:53]
mircea_popescu: wander into the wilderness [12:54]
mircea_popescu: muttering "i saw some things man... i can't tell anyone the things i saw..." [12:54]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dun forget the blinker-siren [12:54]
asciilifeform: ( no moneyed orcmobile is complete without blinker-siren ) [12:54]
mircea_popescu: police picking them up, you know, "you ok sr ?" "i'm fine. i'm fine. it's ok." "did you see a huge clucking airplane coming behind you flapping its wings, hopping up and down and clucking ?!" [12:54]
asciilifeform: !#s ekranoplan [12:55]
a111: 3 results for "ekranoplan", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ekranoplan [12:55]
asciilifeform: ^ ideal vehicle for this [12:55]
mircea_popescu: top keks to be had. [12:55]
asciilifeform: ( late-su made ~exactly mircea_popescu's winged-bus thing ) [12:55]
mircea_popescu: heh. [12:56]
asciilifeform: went ~4 metres height . [12:56]
asciilifeform: iirc was conceived as a sea-going thing, but wai not adapt to modern market!11 [12:57]
mircea_popescu: find the spruce goose in the hangar somewhere while at it, whainot [12:58]
asciilifeform: pretty sure it's still where h. hughes parked it, lol [12:58]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864531 << usg influence. ie precisely what must be uprooted. [13:05]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 19:03 Mocky: bitcoin is also illegal for banks to exchange in. which apparently some wanted to do but now central bank authority has banned [13:05]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864532 << hey wd, you're on the right track exactly. [13:05]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 19:10 Mocky: re meeting Qataris, I found that 30-something aged men interested in business hang out at certain places on a daily basis. if you go and hang there and get to know them, if they like you they may invite you to majalis. which is the regular practice of closing off half of the home from women in the evening and doing man cave shit [13:05]
mircea_popescu: tell them about bdsm an' you've got the whole set-up. [13:06]
asciilifeform: possibly naively, i thought ~all~ centralbanks hate btc, (e.g. cn's), not merely usg-muppet ones ? [13:06]
Mocky: "volatility" "use in malware attacks" stated reasons [13:07]
asciilifeform: lol! [13:07]
mircea_popescu: this guy tho... you've been there two weeks, you already picked up the scent ? not bad. [13:08]
mircea_popescu: i dunno who told you to spend your life on fucking java of all things. [13:08]
Mocky: mircea_popescu, yeah next chapter titled "depeche mode at the four seasons" [13:08]
mircea_popescu: keks [13:08]
asciilifeform: java?! [13:09]
asciilifeform: Mocky you're an escapee from java salt mine ?! [13:09]
Mocky: i've been doing java for 20 years [13:09]
* asciilifeform takes off hat [13:09]
mircea_popescu: i am not kidding -- go to their house, explain what bdsm is, "looky what this guy i know does with the white women ~he owns~". they'll listen to that in preference of fucking playstation. [13:09]
Mocky: i don't know shit about bdsm [13:10]
mircea_popescu: hey, you've been hanging out in there / reading trilema, what did you think that class was for ? [13:10]
mircea_popescu: LA CE IMI SERVESTE MIE RADICALURILE ?!?!?! [13:10]
mircea_popescu: just in case you end up in qatar, that's what. [13:10]
Mocky: maybe if i had couple girls to polish the dust off my crown as i walk from the bar to the pool... [13:11]
mircea_popescu: nah, too much pressure. your line is "this guy i know". [13:11]
mircea_popescu: you don't smell like "this guy i am". not yet at any rate, if ever at all. [13:11]
Mocky: pretty sure I smell like old married guy, lol [13:12]
mircea_popescu: ikr. [13:12]
mircea_popescu: they can relate to that :) [13:12]
mircea_popescu: which is how all woods are cut, you understand. a metal bit with an edge attached to a wooden bit they can relate to. [13:13]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, "all". but because all are trying to "not get fired by buying ibm" and their idea of "ibm" is http://trilema.com/2014/la-florida-and-other-places/#selection-121.0-125.255 and THAT is specifically what must be uprooted. [13:16]
mircea_popescu: the idea that the us has anything meaningful or important to say to the world belongs exactly same place microsoft belongs, and exactly for the same reason. [13:16]
mircea_popescu: and this goes the full spectrum, from furries&trannies to ows&bernie sandals to "internet security" to bridgebuilding "technologies" and other haliburtons. [13:17]
asciilifeform: soo per this model, cn central bank fatwas btc because -- even there -- miami dreamers ? [13:17]
mircea_popescu: shut the shit down. [13:17]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. [13:17]
asciilifeform: ( and not because it interferes with their attempt to run usg-style printing press ..? ) [13:17]
mircea_popescu: a different kind -- impersonal, they don't want to "Escape to there", but still. [13:17]
asciilifeform: plox to expand for enlightenment -- how does 'impersonal miami' work [13:19]
asciilifeform: ( re 'furries & trannies' -- there is a hilarious wankfest going, somebody spread rumour that trump is plotting to cancel, somehow, Official recognition of trannieism, all sortsa usual suspects are busy filling their pants as we speak ) [13:20]
Mocky: oh hey, the 3 indians return with a new ac unit 8:30pm. now arguing with my nigerian host over having brought a different brand [13:24]
Mocky: this should be fun [13:24]
Mocky: considering that they are too short to reach the unit and put ladder on my bed to reach the install point! [13:25]
Mocky: and upgrade from the chair they used the first time [13:25]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not rumor afaik. [13:27]
asciilifeform: oh ha [13:27]
asciilifeform: sounds like the making of a 3ring circus then [13:28]
mircea_popescu: he's rehauling the "obamacare" health bs. which he was fucking voted in to do. snipping all sorts of blue nonsense in the paybook, including surgery for disphorists. [13:28]
asciilifeform: lol i actually had nfi that were in there [13:28]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck do you think the hot air circus even exists? [13:28]
mircea_popescu: all the redditards are doing that WHILE AT WORK. if the govt didn't pay peons to blue, whod the fuck would ? [13:29]
mircea_popescu: not like anyone genuninely believes i nthe crap. [13:29]
mircea_popescu: the pantsuited hilarity herself both knew and said as much, their entire line during elections is "this pays better". and their constant fretful midging on their own "sikrit" comms was all about hiow "apparently people don't care being paid to be stupid nets them slightly more than what they could get on own not being stupid". [13:29]
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf in bolix lulz : loox like dks relisted that 'ivory' for 3rd time nao... apparently not so many eager-worth-of-$5k archaeologists any moar [13:33]
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [13:33]
Mocky: lol they promised "samsung AC" but brought brandless chinesium claiming "this is the expensive one" [13:33]
BingoBoingo: Is it a Panavox? [13:34]
asciilifeform: Mocky: BingoBoingostan seemed to be ~solid samsung all over [13:34]
Mocky: "AR General Cool" lol [13:34]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: panavox, lol! 'durasell' [13:35]
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-13#716070 << subj ) [13:35]
a111: Logged on 2014-06-13 01:21 asciilifeform: 'durasell' is a chinese battery (with correct colour scheme) sold at 'dollar stores' [13:35]
asciilifeform: i've also encountered 'parasonic' and similar lulz [13:35]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah, only the fancy stuff is Samsung. Everything else Panavox or weird Euro brands that opted out of the 120v nonsense. [13:35]
Mocky: i feel bad for my host, trying to get my ac fixed while dealing with these clowns, and thinks i'm just being gracious by saying it's not been bothering me [13:36]
* BingoBoingo rarity in Uruguay, only Panavox product is the fridge [13:36]
Mocky: in other observations, social pantsuits stand out like a sore thumb here. they can't stomach the "racism" "classism" "mistreatment" "conditions for local women". it's a constant irritant to them, they can't figure out how anyone here sleeps at night being party to such things [13:41]
Mocky: they live in constant misery, mostly leaving after a short time [13:42]
Mocky: i dont' know what these interior walls are made of but they are prying nails out with hammer without damaging it. def not like back home [13:45]
BingoBoingo: Concrete? [13:47]
asciilifeform: lol nails in concrete [13:50]
Mocky: they say it's not concrete, that only exterior walls are concrete. but it looks and feels like concrete to me. i can't understand what they are calling it, "tabukla" ? [13:51]
asciilifeform: prolly plaster [13:51]
Mocky: could be plaster over cinder block [13:51]
asciilifeform: Mocky: y'know, what interior walls usedto be made of before drywallism [13:52]
Mocky: i've lived in a couple old houses with ancient plaster. it would chip and crumble pretty easily [13:53]
asciilifeform: Mocky: in my old flat, not only did not crumble, but broke several drill bits when fiber was installed (which i had to do with own hands, lol) [13:54]
asciilifeform: early 1900s place [13:54]
asciilifeform: ( house was... ex-bordello, according to local lore ) [13:54]
Mocky: lol [13:55]
asciilifeform: ( and, extra lulzily, used to be at... different end of street. at one time in usa they knew how to move houses. ) [13:55]
Mocky: place i was in had 1940's newspaper in the walls [13:55]
mircea_popescu: Mocky you ever saw my horror ac pics from argentina ? [13:56]
Mocky: i don't recall it [13:57]
mircea_popescu: well apparently i can't find it anymore, but anyway, ac unit 100% filled with styrofoam. was pretty rich. [14:06]
mircea_popescu: "repaired". [14:06]
Mocky: heh [14:10]
asciilifeform: hey, gotta have the foam for neutron tamper!11 [14:11]
asciilifeform: ( or was that a different 'industria argentina' product..) [14:11]
asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque http://trinque.org/cuntoo.tar.gz 404's [14:14]
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [14:14]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864551 << how much do you need for that ? [14:22]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 20:20 Mocky: i also reached out to local bitcoin guy. turns out there are two. one sells other buys. I reached out the the seller but no response yet. The buyer doesn't have contact info listed and i don't have the bitcoin to answer his ad so haven't contacted yet. [14:22]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864552 << i expect waste of time but in the interest of crossing all bitcoin embassies off the list... [14:23]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 20:23 Mocky: theres also a "blockchain doha" group with 103 members, I can reach out to [14:23]
Mocky: I'm going to try buying a benjie's worth from one and selling it the other just to meet them [14:24]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864561 << mi mismo. don't ask why, it doesn't make anymore sense if explained, either. [14:25]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-21 17:57 BingoBoingo: "Medicaciones para niños necessitan recetas" "Es para yo mismo. Llamé a mi medico." [14:25]
mircea_popescu: !!pay Mocky 0.1 [14:25]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/K3gcX/?raw=true [14:25]
mircea_popescu: Mocky i'm too lazy to type more digits. [14:25]
Mocky: no, i have it on me. no need [14:26]
mircea_popescu: hm ? [14:26]
mircea_popescu: ah don't be silly, use the dime. [14:26]
Mocky: fine [14:26]
mircea_popescu: you don't want to meet people over a hundred anyway [14:27]
mircea_popescu: especially there, apparently, from the tales. [14:27]
Mocky: re blockchainers, im going to try to get them to schedule an event with me as the speaker [14:27]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I didn't ask why. The bearded fellow behind the counter who looked as though he could have been cast as an above average banana republic general in Hollywood promptly shut her up dispensed the product. [14:27]
mircea_popescu: no i mean, why "mi mismo" rather than "yo mismo" [14:28]
BingoBoingo: AH [14:28]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what do they do, whack you with scimitar and stretch fresh camel's stomach over yer shaved head, and leave hogtied to dry in the desert ? [14:28]
mircea_popescu: who ? [14:28]
asciilifeform: ( re 'stories' ) [14:28]
mircea_popescu: i meant what he's been telling. [14:28]
asciilifeform: aa [14:28]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864567 << aaahahahahaha [14:30]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-21 19:18 Mocky: no, i'm subletting a room via airbnb from a nigerian who rents it from someone who also sounds african on speakerphone. and thankfully unseasonably cool with now 2 years worth of rain in the last 2 days [14:30]
mircea_popescu: jesus christ he's bought a room from a nigerian prince. [14:30]
mircea_popescu: i think now we've officially done everything. [14:30]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864571 << this is so fucking stupid, ftr. i can't conceive why one wouldn't put in central air if needs air conditionning. [14:31]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-21 19:21 Mocky: yup, but seems like central air in homes is pretty rare. wallmounted units are the thing, with compressors on the roof. [14:31]
mircea_popescu: do their malls also have ten bn wallmouinted units ? [14:31]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the uruguay folx, do !! [14:31]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo's rooftop, had -- coupla dozen little samsung compressors [14:31]
asciilifeform: 1 for erry room, i think. [14:31]
BingoBoingo: ^ [14:31]
asciilifeform: hotel likewise [14:31]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864578 << wait, is this in reference to the meet-up things ? [14:31]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-21 19:58 Mocky: so far so good. gotta see how well I fit in at these 5 star hotels [14:31]
Mocky: most malls here are posh, yeah, central air [14:32]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is so fucking dumb omg. central air costs 2x to install and 0.5x to run for the lifetime of the thing. A DEGREE OF MAGNITUDE SAVINGS [14:32]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There is one rooftop unit for every indoor unit [14:32]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rrright but that requires an orc who can maintain central plant [14:32]
asciilifeform: whereas the samsungs, i expect, are treated as ~disposables [14:32]
BingoBoingo: The mall actually has central air, but it is still turned to produce heat [14:32]
mircea_popescu: cuz what the fuck maintenance does it need, jaysus. they come encapsulated, like modern engines. [14:33]
Mocky: mircea_popescu, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864537 [14:33]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 19:18 Mocky: the regular spots are mostly 5 star hotels on the water. St. Regis, The Four Seasons, The Pearl Qatar & Medina Centrale. Also there's some pickup beach volleyball at katara beach on fridays once the day cools off [14:33]
mircea_popescu: right. coo. [14:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if installed correctly, good for 20 yrs, yes. but! needs an orc who can install correctly.. [14:33]
mircea_popescu: sad. [14:33]
asciilifeform: and! and! an orc client who actually changes the filters [14:33]
mircea_popescu: there is that. [14:34]
mircea_popescu: perfect way to ruin 500k in gear, by "forgetting" about 50 bucks maintenance. [14:34]
asciilifeform: and ductwork gotta be cleaned at least erry odd decade, or you get interesting things growing therin [14:34]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not there. they don't even have moths, there. [14:34]
mircea_popescu: that's the thing, dry air is SO the perfecvt appliocation here. [14:34]
asciilifeform: right, no moths in desert. but i expect qataris will defo not change filter, 'out of principle' [14:34]
mircea_popescu: it's almost sad to waste the opportunity, you know ? [14:35]
BingoBoingo: Qatar sounds like the perfect place to use swamp coolers [14:35]
mircea_popescu: feels kinda like having the perfect joke for a set-up and then... not using it. [14:35]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc water expensive [14:35]
BingoBoingo: Pretty sure you can do a swamp cooler with Petrol instead [14:35]
asciilifeform: ugh [14:36]
asciilifeform: will work 'great' in errybody-smokes land [14:36]
Mocky: qataris have maid, nanny, gardener, driver, tutor, butler pretty sure one could have 'change filter' on worklist [14:36]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864618 << right. [14:36]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 04:57 Mocky: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-21-oct-2018#2488335 >> there are some important things that are going to be brought to life by the republic and sure as shit they aren't gonna wait for Qatar to buy in. rather, if the outward appearance is correct and there are men of valor here who can recognize the opportunity then this will be their chance to play host to some business and profit exactly to the degree of their continued valor and foresight and not one riyal more [14:36]
mircea_popescu: Mocky the other humongo advantage of getting a central air plant instead of the piddly shits is that THEN you can get clean room at no extra cost. [14:37]
mircea_popescu: "but mp, why would anyone want that!!" "i dunno, same reason anyone would want a large icebox" "inconceivabru. the global market for cars is maybe 12 units." [14:38]
asciilifeform: either that or smoke all the hookahs in the building 'for phree' [14:38]
Mocky: maybe qataris have central air and only orc horde has room units, haven't been there yet [14:38]
mircea_popescu: i don't get it, this is different with miniunits ? [14:39]
asciilifeform: mini only circulates air in the room it lives in [14:39]
mircea_popescu: except if he opens a door ? [14:39]
asciilifeform: aha [14:39]
mircea_popescu: how would ac unit solve the problem of unwashed co-dweller ? seems the application for that is a lock rather. [14:39]
mircea_popescu: don't let them in, problem solved. [14:40]
asciilifeform: it doesn't. was pointing out that you dun get 'clean room' simply from central air pump. at least none of the ones i've used, even with the fancy electrostatic trap thing. [14:40]
mircea_popescu: i mean, since you have the pumping infrastructure, costs comparatively little to isolate one room and do w/e in there, microscopy. [14:40]
mircea_popescu: if you didn't have that infrastructure, you might balk at buying it just for a hobby. [14:41]
mircea_popescu: but with current tech, and given airplant already there, making a den into a clean room is entirely hobby budget. [14:41]
* asciilifeform doesn't have a 'clean room' in the chip fab sense, but did install a multistage circulating filter thing in machine room, it actually worx pretty well re cutting downtime for fan cleanings etc [14:42]
mircea_popescu: (this wouldn't be a very high standard clean room, but 80s level tech quite achievable. whole shtick is to have the controlled airlflow, pressurizing the room.) [14:42]
Mocky: also, central air units don't feed the chumpatron. room units: huge market constantly turning, repairmen "fixing", "workers" installing, refurbishers [14:42]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: main dust src in practice is... the human. rather than external air. [14:42]
asciilifeform: sorta why in the fabs they wear the cosmonautical gear. [14:43]
mircea_popescu: yes, but with correct airflow it's self-cleanning. [14:43]
mircea_popescu: which is the point here. [14:43]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864631 << this thing... [14:45]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 10:00 jurov: ^^ the first try was !!pay BingoBoingo 2 [14:45]
mircea_popescu: omg, done with log ? sweet. [14:46]
billymg: trinque: first post ready for review/feedback http://161.0.121.194/?p=4 [14:47]
mircea_popescu: bare ip addressing huh ? [14:47]
billymg: i have billymg.com as well but i'm not sure if that's what i want to use yet [14:48]
billymg: i also made some very minor tweaks to the default theme's css, mostly for my own sake [14:49]
asciilifeform: billymg: pretty neat ! [14:50]
billymg: thanks! :D [14:50]
billymg: i realized while writing that the middle portion sort of veers away from "guide" and more into "retrospective" format but figured it would be best to just get something out for people to read/comment on [14:51]
billymg: i.e. the part where i get stuck fighting with portage while trying to install php [14:52]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/us-firm-facebook-interfering-in-brazils-presidential-election/ << Qntra - US Firm "Facebook" Interfering In Brazil's Presidential Election [15:02]
BingoBoingo: ^ Meanwhile in foreign election meddling [15:02]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "unregistered foreign influence agent" being the specialist term. [15:06]
BingoBoingo: It's Brasil, discerning whether or not they registered is probably a six month process [15:08]
mircea_popescu: heh [15:09]
lobbes: TMSR: auctionbot is now voiced and now sitting in #trilema [15:11]
lobbes: !Xview 1000 [15:11]
auctionbot: Sell order # 1000: Reserved Opened at: 1 ecu Winning Bid: None [Closed] [15:11]
lobbes: I'll keep my eyeballs peeled for any funky behavior [15:11]
* lobbes bbl meatworld [15:11]
mircea_popescu: nice! [15:12]
BingoBoingo: !!rate billymg 1 The New Yorker [15:25]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Loaac/?raw=true [15:25]
BingoBoingo: !!v 5451628E9058DCF45EC2D1CFFFF6CF08E81D281E4A9FE1000022311975EB7E8B [15:26]
deedbot: BingoBoingo rated billymg 1 << The New Yorker [15:26]
lobbes: hey nice work on the mp-wp guide billymg [15:58]
lobbes: btw, if you end up needing it I have a guide out on how to configure apache to handle bot spam directed at your blog >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/arming-your-arm64-rockchip-gentoo-against-the-hordes-of-mindless-bots/ [15:58]
lobbes: though nowadays the rockchip kernels in the pizarro plant have iptables enabled, so you now have a couple of options for crossing that bridge if you come to it [15:58]
asciilifeform: lobbes: imho a 100%-adatronic thing that could serve http and dish up blog etc. without dragging in apache.nginx,php,sql,etc., would rock. but sadly i dun have anything like the # of free hands for such a thing currently [16:00]
asciilifeform: tho i suspect it would be simpler mechanism than on the surface it appears. [16:00]
lobbes: hm interesting. I too have hands tied up but have been meaning to get a few chapters of ffa under my belt. I'll jot this idea down for far off in the conveyor if someone else doesn't get to it first (and by all means, Someone: feel free to beat me to this punch) [16:02]
lobbes: it would be an interesting project to learn some basic ada with [16:03]
asciilifeform: it is far on the conveyor, i suspect [16:03]
lobbes: on my conveyor, absolutely. I still need to 1) finish de-heathenizing lobbesbot's functions 2) redo #eulora logs 3) get auxiliary #pizarro logs up 4) probably something I'm forgetting [16:04]
lobbes: oy the price history stuff too, tickerbot [16:05]
lobbes: perhaps one of these promising noobs can take on.. [16:05]
asciilifeform: lobbes: what i meant was, there is long list of actually urgent proggies, this one's definitely a luxury thus far ~errybody is living with mp-wp and not particularly sad [16:06]
lobbes: asciilifeform: aa yea. this is true [16:06]
asciilifeform: but, for instance, i dun have php on dulap, and like it that way [16:07]
asciilifeform: '9000' php-diddling lolnets knock on the door futilely erry day, it is hilarious to watch [16:07]
lobbes: would be a nice luxury to have. Every time I've used php, I wished I wasn't using [16:08]
asciilifeform: would be pretty great if instruction to 'i want blog' n00b wasn't 'install this here 200MB of ??? liquishit', but instead 'build this here 100kB ada'. [16:10]
Mocky: i can't stomach php, which probably sounds rich coming from hardcore java dude. my www is static files and one old school cgi to python for comments [16:11]
asciilifeform: Mocky: i think i've yet to meet somebody who wouldn't rather write msdos batch script, than php.. [16:13]
Mocky: I've met a ton of excel lovers who think php is fantastic. seems to appeal greatly to a certain type [16:16]
Mocky: vb "programmers" [16:17]
asciilifeform: i suspect quite a bit of the 'arbitrary substitutions for style dressing' that folx expect from blog engine, are not actually necessary just how often does one fiddle with the dressings. [16:17]
asciilifeform: bake it into the proggy. [16:17]
Mocky: only rarely fiddled with if you have actual things to do, fiddled endlessly when activity substitutes for usefulness [16:20]
asciilifeform: put the dressing in blog.ads as constants and be done with it. when erry couple of yrs you feel like twiddling the bg colour or somesuch -- it's a 10sec recompile, wat. [16:20]
billymg: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865025 << added DNS http://billymg.com [16:21]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 18:47 mircea_popescu: bare ip addressing huh ? [16:21]
billymg: lobbes: what does the tickerbot entail? [16:21]
asciilifeform: billymg: most folx here use hand-curated /etc/hosts dns is largely for giving links to heathens [16:21]
asciilifeform: billymg: ( trb, for instance, doesn't even support dns lookup. i cut it with own hands eats bare ip. ) [16:22]
asciilifeform: billymg: http://trilema.com/2016/please-stop-using-dns-already-and-other-considerations/ << canonical pg on the subj [16:23]
asciilifeform: dns is a decorative thing, e.g. asciilifeform , mircea_popescu , have dns names for www , but really ought to remember that it is decorative . [16:24]
billymg: asciilifeform: ah, makes sense [16:25]
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865071 >> I'm totally with you on that. I already "recompile" my whole site from src ascii docs when publishing every post and takes more than 10s [16:25]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 20:20 asciilifeform: put the dressing in blog.ads as constants and be done with it. when erry couple of yrs you feel like twiddling the bg colour or somesuch -- it's a 10sec recompile, wat. [16:25]
billymg: Mocky: sort of a hand-rolled "static site generator"? i've used jekyll in the past and from what i remember this is how it worked [16:28]
mircea_popescu: honestly php seems a problem that least needs fixing right now. [16:29]
mircea_popescu: trilema ran for a decade on a lamp stack to no serious detriment. [16:29]
* asciilifeform doesn't disagree [16:29]
Mocky: not hand rolled, jbake. like java version of jekyll [16:29]
mircea_popescu: if one were to take this tack, couldn't even turn on computer, gotta fix desk first to be even smoother. [16:29]
asciilifeform: would be major improvement, tho, if serving up a 10kB article didn't eat 500MB. [16:30]
mircea_popescu: i don't see that it does nor is ram expensive enough to justify work. [16:30]
Mocky: yeah, pretty far down the list [16:31]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the point re "redesign" is sound. i comissioned the theme 10 years ago, never really changed it. rolling daily headers came kinda midway, but it literally is one line. [16:31]
mircea_popescu: and it's all the customizing anyone can take, im sure. [16:31]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc i last changed mine in... 2008, or so [16:32]
mircea_popescu: cuz what's to change, really. [16:32]
asciilifeform: and yet the box grunts though the templatization 9000 times an hour, as if answ could ever turn out different [16:32]
asciilifeform: quite offensive imho, from aesthetic pov [16:32]
Mocky: ^ [16:33]
mircea_popescu: this is true. [16:33]
billymg: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865096 << which? this is where i can help [16:34]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 20:32 asciilifeform: quite offensive imho, from aesthetic pov [16:34]
asciilifeform: billymg: it's a fundamental problem with php and any similar substitution-engine thing [16:34]
asciilifeform: it doesn't meaningfully cache computations [16:34]
billymg: ah, i thought you meant the final visual output [16:35]
asciilifeform: nah [16:35]
asciilifeform: was speaking of where it recalculates what is by all rights a 100% constant value, 9000 times/hr, eternally [16:35]
asciilifeform: at any given time, your www -- with the possible exception of comment-eater and search box (the latter dun even exist in mp-wp iirc) really wants to be a static string [16:36]
asciilifeform: rather than a complicated series of template insertions and db fetches [16:37]
Mocky: with some minor exceptions like mp's random home page & 404 & partial url matching [16:38]
asciilifeform: right [16:38]
mircea_popescu: and commenrts and etc [16:38]
asciilifeform: there aint so many of these knobs tho [16:38]
billymg: what about the various wordpress "caching" plugins? [16:38]
asciilifeform: billymg: afaik they dun work worth a shit [16:38]
mircea_popescu: if you look into the templarte, you'll see it's very flat, as in, most of the non-variable content is quoted literals. [16:38]
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu coupla yrs ago wrote about trying a caching thing [16:39]
asciilifeform: melted down spectacularly [16:39]
billymg: lol [16:39]
asciilifeform: imho sitting a dedicated cacher on php is archaetypical 'tv raft' [16:39]
asciilifeform: !#s tv raft [16:39]
a111: 18 results for "tv raft", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tv%20raft [16:39]
asciilifeform: ( from ancient mircea_popescu piece, quoted e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524864 ) [16:40]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b [16:40]
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865066 << ugh I've met too many of these at my $work. [16:41]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 20:16 Mocky: I've met a ton of excel lovers who think php is fantastic. seems to appeal greatly to a certain type [16:41]
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865074 << eventually I aim to have a 'tickerbot' (which, will actually be a function of auctionbot) that will spit out a btc/fiat price based off of the results of republican auctions of a specific type (i.e. to do the price formation of e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860078, automatically) [16:41]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 20:21 billymg: lobbes: what does the tickerbot entail? [16:41]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-10 16:05 BingoBoingo: In other news, today is pizarro invoicing day and hanbot's auction closed per "<lobbesbot> AUCTION # 367 has ENDED: 500usd via WU SOLD to BingoBoingo for 76mn coppers. Attn: hanbot" leading to a price of 6579 usd/BTC [16:41]
asciilifeform: lobbes: many yrs ago asciilifeform worked in a biotech lab thing, was ~100% 'excel'-powered, erry bit as ugly as you can imagine [16:42]
asciilifeform: the instruments for which they didn't have 'excel'-izers, were i/o'd by... human hands [16:42]
asciilifeform: (interns) [16:42]
lobbes: it boggles my mind each day, how much runs on excel at $mega-corp [16:42]
lobbes: "we need to automate reporting." "well data is split across 10,000 sources" "idk, do it anyway" [16:43]
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had an old piece re subj it explains quite a bit re ameri-corporate world [16:43]
asciilifeform: 'excel' is archaetypical pseudo-automation -- eats ~more~ hours in babysitting and manual i/o , than ever saved anyone vs plain pen-and-paper [16:44]
lobbes: !#s excel sekrit agents [16:44]
a111: 0 results for "excel sekrit agents", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=excel%20sekrit%20agents [16:44]
Mocky: working with programmers is hard, they constantly tell you why all your ideas are terrible, if any business person who can self teach vb / php can deliver "value" to manager without pesky programmer problems [16:45]
lobbes: but yeah, also it one of the few things 'execs' can wrap their head around [16:45]
lobbes: so everyone forced to use [16:45]
billymg: lobbes: i might be able to help with that if you're looking for hands, but i think i first need to spend a few weeks getting comfortable with V before i'll be of much use [16:46]
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-11#1641817 << 1 of the threads ) [16:46]
a111: Logged on 2017-04-11 00:21 asciilifeform: i can see a legit pov for the 'no sql' folx. 'you will NOT introduce programmerolade into our process flow, creating work for maggots like yerself and marrying our corp to your lazy and entitled arse' approx. [16:46]
lobbes: aha that seem familiar [16:47]
asciilifeform: it gives brass a convincing illusion that they 'understand the process flow', because 'can read any particular spreadshit' [16:48]
asciilifeform: whereas the fact that collectively 9000MB of excel add up to ~more~ tangled liquishit than 1 perl script, is generally lost on'em [16:48]
Mocky: and 3 hours later COLD AIR!! lol [16:49]
asciilifeform: congrats Mocky ! [16:49]
Mocky: even got a pic of indian on a ladder on my bed holding AC unit over head [16:49]
* asciilifeform bbl,meat [16:49]
lobbes: asciilifeform: ayup. but it doesn't matter if actually works even. just needs to 'look like it works' to whichever group of agents [16:50]
lobbes: Mocky: congrats on the cool air [16:50]
Mocky: thx [16:50]
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, finally got off ass made new header. jesus christ this thing. [16:51]
Mocky: it's funny to see "face whitening cream" on the grocery shelf next to shaving cream and tooth brushes. i always assumed it was just michael jackson and brown chicks with dark blemishes wanting to bleach skin [17:01]
lobbes: for some reason 'bleached skin' and 'hot desert sun' don't go well together in my mind O-o [17:02]
lobbes: billymg: ty for the offer. however ticker functionality will be intimately married to the auction database, so I'm going to want to own that completely. However, auxiliary logs for the various chans is something in demand (#pizarro, for example, just has the one logotron atm). That being said, there may be more pressing needs in the general tmsr conveyor [17:02]
billymg: BingoBoingo: don't know if you saw this https://www.sqlite.org/codeofconduct.html << sqlite project gets pressured into adopting a CoC, publishes troll CoC based on chapter 4 of The Rule of St. Benedict [17:03]
lobbes: definitely no shortage of work around these parts [17:03]
billymg: NPCs and SJWs everywhere not sure whether to be outraged that it's satire or take it seriously and be outraged at its "religious discrimination" [17:03]
mircea_popescu: heh. [17:05]
billymg: lobbes: of course, and thanks for the heads up on the other projects [17:05]
lobbes: billymg: there may also be opportunities selling for pizarro. If you think you could be good at that couldn't hurt to check with them [17:05]
billymg: this is something i had thought of before [17:08]
billymg: as there is some overlap between design and marketing [17:08]
billymg: right now i have two items in my queue 1) figure out how to submit a vpatch for mp-wp with those few lines of CSS tweaks on the default theme 2) write a completely custom mp-wp theme [17:09]
Mocky: that's where it starts, next thing you know you're in some strange country [17:12]
mircea_popescu: hahaha [17:13]
mircea_popescu: he'd know. [17:13]
billymg: haha strange country very much top of mind for me [17:13]
billymg: would like to get out before getting stuck in a coke machine [17:13]
lobbes: billymg: for #1, be sure to check out ben_vulpes' guide on the basics of v: http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system [17:14]
lobbes: although for vdiff, you'll probably want phf's vtools for the keccak [17:14]
* lobbes bbl meat [17:15]
Mocky: oh and in more important news, i got a line on where to buy a waffle maker here. went to the store and they actually do sell them. but ... sold out. which is probably for the best since they were selling a model worth 17$ that makes one at a time for 80$ [17:16]
mircea_popescu: no waffle shops there then ? [17:18]
BingoBoingo: billymg: I hadn't seen that one yet. Nice take on the TrannyCoC problem. [17:19]
BingoBoingo: billymg: if you are really looking for something to do, there's a spiffy js text selection thing and mp-wp could use a couple themes where it is plugged in by default [17:20]
Mocky: yes, a few of them. but waffles here are like a desert gimmick, covered in thick layers of chocolate sauce or the like. they don't take this shit serious [17:20]
BingoBoingo: <Mocky> it's funny to see "face whitening cream" on the grocery shelf next to shaving cream and tooth brushes. i always assumed it was just michael jackson and brown chicks with dark blemishes wanting to bleach skin << Apparently it is a big Asian thing. The prospect of it being here makes me very cautious about sunscreen selections. [17:22]
Mocky: makes me wonder what i'd look like white! :D [17:23]
BingoBoingo: Prolly rather sickly. In this sunny place I am surrounded by sickly looking pale freaks. [17:23]
BingoBoingo: And in the trilema homepage roulette, this six year old cutie popped up http://trilema.com/2012/that-sticky-issue-of-enforcing-contracts/ [17:24]
billymg: BingoBoingo: i could definitely do that, wanted to add it to my own as the first step [17:25]
billymg: what if i submitted a vpatch that adds the js-text-selection feature and the few lines of CSS to the "default" theme in mp-wp (blue header one)? [17:26]
Mocky: self inflicted vitiligo, not good if you have a wide nose, lol [17:26]
mircea_popescu: billymg that'd prolly be useful. see hanbot 's tree. [17:28]
billymg: mircea_popescu: sounds good [17:28]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/people-of-walmart/ << Trilema - People of Walmart [17:45]
asciilifeform: lol!! [18:10]
asciilifeform: there's a lolmart in bananistan?! [18:10]
* asciilifeform had nfi [18:10]
asciilifeform: afaik in BingoBoingostan there was not [18:11]
asciilifeform: ( tho they had a kitschy 'tienda engleza' thing that sold errything from animal fodder to welder [18:11]
asciilifeform: ) [18:11]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently Brasil has Walmart, but no, there is no lolmart in BingoBoingostan [18:20]
mircea_popescu: ha-HA! [18:23]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelated to anyffing: i have a tentative thing that eats a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864354 and gives trb option of replacing 'checkpoints' with it ( i.e. on boot, tests all already-stored blox against it, and if any blox in the tape are not yet present, then it requests & accepts them and only them, 1 at a time ). do we want this for field use ? (if so i can put on conveyor for cleanup) [18:37]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-20 01:48 asciilifeform: ( for the impatient : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/snap_546400.txt ) [18:37]
asciilifeform: it doesn't actually speed up sync ( alert long-time readers will know why : sig verification, contrary to the spew of the prb people, is NOT bottleneck for acceptblock() , rather tx indexing is ) [18:38]
asciilifeform: really it's a quite dangerous grenade, if used ineptly. ( i personally would only dare to feed it a tape that came out of own node ) [18:39]
asciilifeform: takes the form of 'makecement' (formerly 'makesnap') command, and corresponding '-setcement' flag that takes a tape on bootup. [18:42]
asciilifeform: tape being, [18:43]
asciilifeform: 0 000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f [18:43]
asciilifeform: 1 00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048 [18:43]
asciilifeform: ... and so forth. [18:43]
asciilifeform: relatedly, mod6 et al, i suggest abolition of '-verifyall' flag, it should really be permanently welded on, bypassing sig tests doesn't win ~anyffin in so far as i can tell [18:44]
asciilifeform: erry sig in blox, even taped ones, in oughta be verified, it costs very little cpu [18:46]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can't hurt anything. [18:48]
asciilifeform: well it adds moving parts [18:48]
asciilifeform: hence the q [18:48]
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865024 -> not bad billymg maybe get the footnotes code to properly link back also, place/formatting of footnotes is a bit weird atm - at the first read I thought those were some summary-list rather than footnotes [18:48]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 18:47 billymg: trinque: first post ready for review/feedback http://161.0.121.194/?p=4 [18:48]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not like anyone has to press on it, as per that discussion. [18:49]
asciilifeform: correct [18:49]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can you personally picture a scenario where you'd want to use this ? [18:49]
mircea_popescu: now or in the future ? [18:49]
asciilifeform: future [18:49]
mircea_popescu: certainly. in general speaking, trbi will prolly not use any of the current trb/prb legacy common code [18:50]
asciilifeform: i can't picture wanting any old cpp crapola in trbi in general [18:50]
asciilifeform: $item pertains strictly to current-day trb [18:50]
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=63 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/18/2018 [18:51]
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine it being useful for current. [18:51]
asciilifeform: the 1 thing it'd do for current, is to give easy means to determine that errybody actually has same blox. but the read-only knob already gives this ( and arguably 'dumpblock' already gave a much slower version of same ) [18:52]
mircea_popescu: and other things. [18:53]
asciilifeform: which [18:54]
mircea_popescu: you know, ye olde fashioned sync mechanism. [18:54]
mircea_popescu: lots of things give this "make sure you have same blocks". [18:54]
asciilifeform: ah lol yes [18:55]
asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dI29G/?raw=true << very peculiar barfology from existing ( same tarball i successfully used for s.mg box ) cuntoo. sat for 4 hrs, built both gcc's, etc., then ended with this. [18:57]
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [18:57]
asciilifeform: ( wonder why it even needs py3.. ) [18:57]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc ben_vulpes had an experiment that demanded custom 'checkpoints' but i do not nao recall what it was ( and can't seem to turn up in l0gz ) [19:00]
billymg: diana_coman: thanks! i see your point about the footnotes, they could use some visual separation from the main content [19:05]
asciilifeform: aaah found it : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595868 [19:10]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 22:19 ben_vulpes: haven't made checkpoints configurable, so solipsist nodes won't even mine [19:10]
asciilifeform: seems that he wanted to test whether trb's miner component actually worked. [19:10]
asciilifeform: ( currently, this is ~impossible ) [19:11]
asciilifeform: of course, removing the checkpoints thing entirely would give this also. ( i dun recall if anyone ever gave convincing case for whether they oughta stay or go, and if stay, wai not selectable ) [19:12]
asciilifeform: thinking about it, i can actually conceive of 1 possible constructive use for programmable cements -- testing the reorg mechanism ( i.e. deliberately steer a node into a dead end chain, then restart uncemented and see whether it finds its way back properly ) [19:17]
asciilifeform: afaik this is not a test that has actually happened in trb history ( longest naturally-occurring reorg since trb first saw use in the battlefield was, iirc, 8 blox or so ? ) [19:21]
* asciilifeform bbl,meat [19:24]
mircea_popescu: more like 100 [19:46]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observed on a trb node concretely ? [19:50]
asciilifeform: cuz i can't say that i have, on my watch [19:51]
asciilifeform: i definitely watched a 60 blox reorg, but this was in pre- trb era [19:52]
asciilifeform: iirc it came from one of those idjit gavin cataclysms [19:55]
asciilifeform: there was the 2015 lulzfest, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-04#1186479 , but iirc that summed to sad chain ~dozen blox long [19:58]
a111: Logged on 2015-07-04 04:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform listen, seems the chain actually forked. [19:58]
asciilifeform: hm, loox like was only 6 . [20:02]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-04#1187403 << detail. [20:02]
a111: Logged on 2015-07-04 21:58 mircea_popescu: atm the situation is that block 363730 is forked. one chain, 6 blocks long, proceeds atop a v2 block. the current main chain proceeds from 363730 on v3 blocks. [20:02]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you still have the 100blox log spew on tape somewhere, would like to see.. [20:02]
* asciilifeform has been reading noad spew daily since early 2015, finds it difficult to picture having missed such a bomb [20:05]
* asciilifeform brb [20:05]
lobbes: !!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 1 [21:27]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bfxYD/?raw=true [21:27]
BingoBoingo: ty [21:32]
lobbes: !!v F5B7F38446429C1A7D9FB35C83EB66BA7F63D552C4AE5BE6417131D956115B02 [21:32]
deedbot: lobbes paid BingoBoingo invoice 1 [21:32]
lobbes: BingoBoingo: ty sir [21:32]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to be clear, is the idea "node locked on alt chain while main chain goes on a lot of blocks" or "node on a lengthy orphan chain" ? [21:37]
mircea_popescu: cuz the latter indeed doesn't happen, expensive mienr failuire [21:37]
mircea_popescu: but the former happens all the time, cuz inexpensive relay failure [21:37]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was asking specifically re events that trigger reorg logic ( as seen in http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/tree/bitcoin/src/main.cpp#L1028 ), with arity defined as the length of the eventually discarded forklet chain [21:42]
asciilifeform: they happen erry coupla wks on zoolag, but are almost always of arity 1 [21:42]
asciilifeform: afaik to date trb demonstrably did Right Thing on reorg of arity 6 ( july '15 incident ) [21:44]
asciilifeform: but if anyone observed a longer one ( whether naturally occurring, that i slept through somehow, or artificial on testbed ) i'd like to know. [21:45]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865261 << incidentally i dun see how these are mechanically distinguishable from a node's pov [21:48]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 01:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to be clear, is the idea "node locked on alt chain while main chain goes on a lot of blocks" or "node on a lengthy orphan chain" ? [21:48]
asciilifeform: 'locked' implies that reorg logic failed ? [21:49]
asciilifeform: i.e. perma-wedge ? [21:49]
mod6: Happy 4th Anniversary to The Bitcoin Foundation! [21:49]
mod6: I'm currently about a week behind here... [21:49]
asciilifeform: i have not observed this on trb to date, but it is precisely the q i was posing, whether can happen ( i.e. reorg logic fails ) in some possible alignment of planets. [21:50]
asciilifeform: mod6: congrats [21:50]
mod6: Gotta catch up on l0gz and the rest. In particular, I'm just about nowhere on my task of creating answers to FAQs/Common Questions about the Foundation itself. I'll be working on that this week as a main priority - will post what I have for review/comments/corrections in #trilema by end of weekend. [21:51]
mod6: asciilifeform: thanks for your recent submissions to the ML. I'll get to reviewing those as soon as I can. [21:55]
asciilifeform: mod6: dun hurry with that one, it's a somewhat exotic knob that isnt of great immediate consequence [21:55]
asciilifeform: simply dumps block hashes, without racking up ssd wear as dumpblock/hash/erase to do same job would [21:57]
mod6: Oh, my bad, there was just one. For some reason, I thought that I read there were two. [21:57]
asciilifeform: mod6: there was earlier one that prints who gave blox [21:57]
mod6: Anyway, like I said, need to go back and rewind the logs a week. [21:57]
mod6: OH, right. [21:57]
mod6: That one too. [21:57]
asciilifeform: but thats all i had on ml in recent times [21:57]
mod6: *nod*. Cheers. [21:58]
mod6: The creation of a keccak trb tree is still on the to-do list however, one thing kinda proceeds that item for me - a review / testing of keccak implementation. I've never had a chance to do that yet, and I think it's important. [21:59]
mod6: I've got a pile of things, really. :D [22:02]
mod6: Meanwhile... my node is happily eating blocks to catch back up. On block 64 of 85. Will be a few days yet, I'm certain. [22:04]
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865206 << There's a thought. [22:11]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 22:44 asciilifeform: relatedly, mod6 et al, i suggest abolition of '-verifyall' flag, it should really be permanently welded on, bypassing sig tests doesn't win ~anyffin in so far as i can tell [22:11]
asciilifeform: mod6: afaik errybody already runs with the flag. and switching it off dun do anyffing useful, quite the contrary [22:15]
mod6: I can't disagree with that. [22:17]
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865239 << This would be a neat test. [22:18]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 23:17 asciilifeform: thinking about it, i can actually conceive of 1 possible constructive use for programmable cements -- testing the reorg mechanism ( i.e. deliberately steer a node into a dead end chain, then restart uncemented and see whether it finds its way back properly ) [22:18]
mircea_popescu: yeah, no, those don't really happen anymore. even 1s are rare(r). [23:52]
asciilifeform: indeed. sorta why they're of interest, imho, as 'corner case'. [23:59]
asciilifeform: rare, but otoh 'nobody cancelled' . [23:59]
Category: Logs
Comments feed : RSS 2.0. Leave your own comment below, or send a trackback.
Add your cents! »
    If this is your first comment, it will wait to be approved. This usually takes a few hours. Subsequent comments are not delayed.