Forum logs for 22 Mar 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
asciilifeform: in other veryolds, 'you'll feel no dismay, watching your house burn, after you get to see how the bedbug dies!' (korean proverb) [00:08]
trinque: http://www.outsports.com/2017/3/20/14983388/transgender-weightlifting-laurel-hubbard-wins << In doing so she set new national records “in the snatch and clean and jerk,” according to 1 News Now. [00:17]
shinohai: -https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7ZnZ2SUwAARAeH.jpg ^________________^ [00:26]
shinohai: "A peer to peer electronic bug crash system" [00:26]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-hustler/ << Trilema - The Hustler [08:52]
mircea_popescu: shinohai progress! revolutionary new economy! [09:08]
mircea_popescu: an' trinque's thing's just too adorbs. clean snatch jerk eh. [09:08]
BingoBoingo: OMG London Terrorism! [11:09]
shinohai: Secretary of State Rex Tillerson: " I didn't want this job .... but mah wife has me pussywhipped so I did it." [11:15]
shinohai: Now that mircea_popescu pointed out fangs in "The anti-woman" I see them everywhere http://archive.is/3Hujw [11:40]
mircea_popescu: shinohai lol. [11:55]
mircea_popescu: idiots. [11:56]
mircea_popescu: “Seventeen years old is obviously older, but at the same time it doesn’t make anything right,” [11:56]
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is wrong with these people ? [11:56]
shinohai: To be fair, all her teeth are relatively straight, so a bit or two would be most welcome in certain circumstances. [11:56]
shinohai: The creme de la creme though is ..... "Fowlkes taught anatomy, physiology ...." [11:58]
shinohai: Anatomy indeed! [11:58]
mircea_popescu: the notion that she's in a position of power over some male student is perhaps the lulziest bit in there. [11:59]
mircea_popescu: wtf is she going to do, gossip ? [11:59]
diana_coman: eh, give him a bad grade, "dent his self-esteem", "ruin his future" etc [12:01]
mircea_popescu: yeah right. she can't do that. [12:01]
diana_coman: yes, but at the same time she "can" [12:01]
mircea_popescu: sounds like a bum deal to me. [12:02]
shinohai: On paper anyway [12:02]
diana_coman: tbh I have no idea why/how would someone go into teaching at this moment my only hypothesis is that really, really, they have NO other option at all [12:02]
mircea_popescu: "we pretend young women going out with young men is a big deal in order to thereby prop the nonsensical fiction that taking the absolute worst job there is somehow gives bordeline sleeves "power"." [12:02]
diana_coman: but like at all [12:02]
shinohai: Worked for Preeet eh [12:03]
mircea_popescu: this prosecution is expected to produce a further 3k shoulda-been-a-stripper enrollments into teaching countrywide, and at least 50k more useless undergrads signing up for overpriced college tuition. [12:03]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman no see, she wants to have power. because she doesn't. and if you go into teaching you have power, because that's why they keep prosecuting them. [12:04]
mircea_popescu: it's ~same reason dumb pubescent girls went into "witching". siunce people burn witches, it's clearly JUST the thing for a lowly wench with no resources. [12:04]
mircea_popescu: why do 30yos go around on the software adequate for the needs of a 14yo in 1817 is anyone's guess, but i suppose its proper name is progress. [12:04]
diana_coman: ugh, I thought it was already more than obvious that no power at all,what with all the assorted "rights" and "child protection" and what nots [12:05]
mircea_popescu: as always, the empire is consistent, in its batshit insane sort of logic. [12:05]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman nothing's obvious to the powerless. this is a pleonasm. [12:05]
diana_coman: that's precisely my point: I get it that some 20 years ago they went into teaching for this reason meanwhile it's so constricted and day by day more so that ... [12:06]
diana_coman: I guess so [12:06]
mircea_popescu: obvious is ice to power's water. [12:06]
diana_coman: makes sense, that [12:08]
ben_vulpes: !!up aseriousgogetta are you going to keep joining and parting all morning? [12:26]
deedbot: aseriousgogetta voiced for 30 minutes. [12:26]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: tard's been doing it for weeks [12:26]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: oh i know [12:27]
ben_vulpes: seriously, go and get her [12:27]
asciilifeform: * crackerJack (~infopirat@rrcs-50-84-154-226.sw.biz.rr.com) has joined #trilema << oh hey, because apparently we need TWO ninjashotguns from same pigsty [12:30]
phf: we're moving on up, but still no confiscated electronics on the border [12:31]
* phf is mildly disappointed [12:31]
mircea_popescu: that'd be like the 1983 soviets confiscating communist international propaganda material [12:32]
mircea_popescu: wtf do they want with anyone's ipad. [12:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the proverbial 'six words from the pen of the honest man', presumably. [12:33]
asciilifeform: gunpowderplot.txt [12:33]
mircea_popescu: on the ipad ? typed one letter at a time ? [12:34]
mircea_popescu: does it even HAVE a vi or anything ? [12:34]
phf: perversely is probably does [12:34]
asciilifeform: or sitting in mail etc [12:35]
phf: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/vim/id492668168?mt=8 [12:35]
asciilifeform: or in fauxpgp [12:35]
mircea_popescu: that'd be fine employment for what's his name wanna-be da indian. fill tax returns on ipad kbd for the rest of his days. [12:35]
asciilifeform: ( speaking of which, https://archive.is/p1EJN >> Run Moar Keybase ) [12:35]
mircea_popescu: lel [12:36]
* shinohai is a little sad to see vim as an app [12:36]
mircea_popescu: "As reported by Motherboard, a September 2016 filing by a Canadian court revealed that the Dutch police were able to decrypt the PGP-encrypted messages because the Dutch investigators may have found the decryption keys on the seized server itself." [12:37]
mircea_popescu: imbeciles./ [12:37]
mircea_popescu: wtf is "end to end encryption" in the opinion of that journalist ? [12:38]
asciilifeform: i still wonder, the lurk remoras, they have no www browser on their box ? [12:39]
asciilifeform: reading logs goes against their religion. or wat. [12:39]
mircea_popescu: you care too much. [12:40]
asciilifeform: strictly entomological interest. [12:40]
mircea_popescu: yeah but it's a little like wondering why the pollen suspended in water took a left. [12:41]
mircea_popescu: brownian motion's a thing. there's no why. [12:41]
mircea_popescu: they're subhuman for a reason, and the reason they're subhuman is exactly this : BRAINDAMAGE. [12:41]
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyMSc97UksM [12:41]
asciilifeform: tru. [12:42]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1630768 << lol: peru [12:48]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 01:36 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CE72A8A92BAD54483D369030249CB608FDE6742BFFE5683D09385073F04B97DD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1424...5529 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.62.176.35 (ssh-rsa key from 200.62.176.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt> ' (Unknown PE LMA) [12:48]
asciilifeform: and here i was, wondered if they even had the net there. [12:48]
asciilifeform: !$ ssh 200.62.176.35 [12:49]
scriba: ssh banner of 200.62.176.35 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9 [12:49]
asciilifeform: and not only the net, but they have magic-debian. [12:49]
mircea_popescu: why would the orcs have anything else. [12:51]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from not updating since '06, say. [12:52]
mircea_popescu: lol. [12:52]
mircea_popescu: next they're going to have internet in 1994 and the ps2 in 1995. [12:53]
mircea_popescu: heck, the whole africa used phone market isn't there because THESE FUCKS EAT THE LEFTOVERS AS A DEFINITIONAL CHARACTERISTIC. but purely as a matter of choice. [12:53]
asciilifeform: choice? [12:54]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall the lulz about the expired windows on argentina's patriotic pride big screen next to the "national theatre" ? [12:54]
asciilifeform: we have these here [12:54]
asciilifeform: on ATMs, even [12:55]
mircea_popescu: i'm sure. [12:55]
asciilifeform: winblowz xp bsod on atm, does not even surprise anyone, any moar, afaik. [12:55]
mircea_popescu: point being, by the time argentina heard of computers in 2010, windows 95 was just coming out. [12:55]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wasn't bsod. was "this windows is anciend please sir." [12:55]
asciilifeform: i did find myself wondering, what exactly microshit did to make sure that it in fact ended up happening in 'we heard of computer in 2010' planet. [12:56]
asciilifeform: the argentines et al had a golden chance to not-have-microshit [12:56]
asciilifeform: and fucked it. [12:56]
mircea_popescu: theres a reason rms spent his days shuttling from brazil to liberia or wherever the fuck "open source" was "really taking off" once open source was well and truly dead. [12:56]
mircea_popescu: why did they think it's cool a half year after it was no longer worth the mention ? [13:00]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck do they think dollars are an investment in 1995 ? it was a fucking investment in 1913, but back THEN they were buying austro-hungarian paper. [13:00]
asciilifeform: it is entirely possible to be 'behind the times' in a non-retarded way, e.g. 'what ipad, i still have a working pdp11' [13:04]
mircea_popescu: ipad is not the times. [13:04]
asciilifeform: why they instead have win2k -- i cannot say [13:04]
mircea_popescu: this is exactly the point, and i suspect the definitional characteristic of orcdom : the inability to distinguish science mag from cosmo. the failure to comprehend ipad is not nor can not be, no matter what happens, the times. [13:04]
mircea_popescu: "but everyone uses it!" dun matter "but it's really cool!" dun matter "but i really like it!" you're an orc, do the opposite of your natural impulse because your natural impulse is made of shit. etc etc. [13:05]
asciilifeform: it isn't clear to me that americans, in the general case, can distinguish cosmo from whatever. [13:05]
mircea_popescu: and they're orcs these days. [13:05]
mircea_popescu: shockley period americans didn't have much trouble distinguishing car from rickshaw. [13:06]
mircea_popescu: "but everyone rickshaws!" not for long, bitches. [13:06]
asciilifeform: funnily enough (at least to me) even the humble rickshaw was introduced by the white man [13:06]
asciilifeform: ( prior -- oxcart, or legs, pick. ) [13:07]
mircea_popescu: aha. different period tho. [13:07]
asciilifeform: yea [13:07]
asciilifeform: incidentally.. there are pedal-powered rickshaws in washington. for ~decade nao. [13:08]
asciilifeform: ~100% of the pedallers : white d00dz in their 20s, 'college victims' [13:08]
mircea_popescu: i expect they're just trying to meet girls. [13:09]
mircea_popescu: (there's a reason bar wenches were female, and the reason is, that originally it was a very reasonable way to get yourself mated.) [13:09]
asciilifeform: from the position of a draft horse?! [13:09]
mircea_popescu: why not ? submissive sex, gotta display, neh ? [13:10]
asciilifeform: no i was speaking of the pedal folx [13:10]
mircea_popescu: chick knows what she's buying and how much it costs, mebbe-mebbe. [13:10]
mircea_popescu: yes. [13:10]
phf: i know a guy who rickshaws (in new york, now in austin), and loved it for that very reason. i think he stopped because young girls don't typically get pedicab, mostly drunken old women who "grab his ass" etc. [13:11]
mircea_popescu: so he turns around and "ass grabbing carries a twenny dollar fine m'am" [13:12]
phf: he's not that smooth, though that would be a sop reaction in india [13:14]
mircea_popescu: contrary to the common fantasy, most betas would actually be a lot fucking happier if they could live in out and out sexual slavery rather than the bs they're stuck with currently. [13:14]
mircea_popescu: most "bad relationships" are exactly that. bitter moon (the film) if anyone saw that crap is best summarized as "two subbies arguing who should top that evening". [13:14]
mircea_popescu: it gets pretty messy. [13:14]
mircea_popescu: phf and i bet the happenstance that friend-describes-him-as-not-smooth and the incidental that no-hot-chicks-take-to-his-bower are entirely and wholly unrelated in his own estimation, if somehow it were to be obtained yes ? [13:15]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which common fantasy [13:19]
mircea_popescu: head of household or w/e. independent agent at the least. [13:19]
phf: guy connects to trilema from his android, gets banned, still doesn't reach out to anybody. "oh, i'm sorry, my bad, i will learn to wash ass", something [13:22]
mircea_popescu: most of the tubes lead nowhere / most of the nerves aren't connected / most of the cables lay buried in a pile of mud. [13:22]
mircea_popescu: postapocalyptica, yes ? "i wonder what this rope is connected to" "nothing." [13:23]
mircea_popescu: 50-50 the "intelligent" app just connects him for good measure and behind the screen. [13:23]
mircea_popescu: it's the I[di]OT way. browsers "prefetch" pages, on it goes. [13:24]
phf: "i have an irc client???" [13:24]
ben_vulpes: in other government science: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39351833 [13:37]
mircea_popescu: ten years later i finally figured out what fucking possessed nival to ruin heroes of might and magic 5. [13:38]
mircea_popescu: they were trying to do final fantasy tactics! holy shit, a decade later [13:38]
ben_vulpes: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/03/30-years-ago-a-look-back-at-1987/520290/ << featuring agent orange, liza minella, old compaqs, the clintons, and a few ships on fire [13:57]
ben_vulpes: minelli* [13:58]
asciilifeform: 'Pennsylvania State Treasurer R. Budd Dwyer holds a pistol as he prepared to shoot himself in front of cameras during a news conference in his State Capitol office in Harrisburg.' << pretty great [14:03]
asciilifeform: where did these go. [14:03]
mircea_popescu: the ones that did it, to the graveyard. the replacements -- don't do it. [14:09]
asciilifeform: noshit [14:10]
mircea_popescu: hey, you asked! :D [14:10]
asciilifeform: 'where am i?' 'you are in a car' [14:10]
mircea_popescu: lol [14:10]
asciilifeform: 'Since Dwyer died in office, his widow Joanne was able to collect full survivor benefits, totaling over $1.28 million.' --pediwik [14:15]
asciilifeform: lulzy. [14:15]
mircea_popescu: yeah, dead lizard srs bad news for the empire. [14:16]
mircea_popescu: kinda the point of killing them, really. [14:16]
asciilifeform: pretty minor league lizard, afaik. [14:16]
mircea_popescu: and it still is a whole million of 1980 dollars. [14:17]
asciilifeform: iirc - a postman's widow could collect a mil. depending on when he dies. [14:17]
ben_vulpes: heh "current" ppc gentoo build is dated 2014? [14:25]
asciilifeform: heh, that's what, 4? 5? yrs after the last ppc box was sold other than secondhand? [14:26]
asciilifeform: gentoo afaik never had a theo de raadt, with cellar full of vax, pdp [14:26]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you really oughta cross-compile the whole shebang [14:27]
asciilifeform: as asciilifeform did for, e.g., pogo. [14:27]
ben_vulpes: surely that's not going to be as simple as adding the right CROSS_COMPILE flag to portage conf files, right? [14:29]
asciilifeform: probably not. [14:30]
mircea_popescu: eh why the hell not. you're gonna be the lucky one, [14:30]
ben_vulpes: what would "the right way" to "cross-compile the whole shebang" be? [14:30]
mircea_popescu: software'll just work for you. [14:30]
mircea_popescu: why the hell not. [14:30]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: thanks mircea_popescu [14:30]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: see the pogo build articles. [14:32]
ben_vulpes: aye aye [14:34]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000033.html << arm cross-flags example (from ye olde trb) [14:35]
asciilifeform: actually strike that, [14:36]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html << recipe [14:36]
asciilifeform: ^ includes the buildroot process [14:37]
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, https://archive.is/F7Vjc << from the world of opsecfail lulz. [14:39]
asciilifeform: ^ complete with 'oh it wasn't the tor, believe' [14:40]
mircea_popescu: fentanyl ? druglords ? [14:40]
mircea_popescu: whats next, titus anime steel ? [14:40]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/0qmNU << from same rag. 'The US Third Circuit Court of Appeals today upheld a lower court ruling of contempt against a chap who claimed he couldn't remember the password to decrypt his computer's hard drives.' [14:42]
mircea_popescu: aww [14:43]
asciilifeform: any day nao, peine forte et dure comes back!111 [14:43]
asciilifeform: it's the logical end. [14:43]
asciilifeform: (then -- 'coke machine.') [14:43]
ben_vulpes: why, if prosecution relies on "known hashes" are these verboten integers not twiddled ever so slightly for each customer? [14:44]
mircea_popescu: known hashes ? [14:44]
ben_vulpes: "thousands of files with the same hash values as known child pornography files" [14:44]
mircea_popescu: ah. you are asking the wrong question. [14:45]
ben_vulpes: would be funny to re-release all of those files fuzzed ever so slightly [14:45]
mircea_popescu: the right question is, why doesn't twitter alter all its images on the fly to hit those hashes [14:45]
mircea_popescu: and the answer is, because twitter is part of usg, not part of the internet. [14:45]
ben_vulpes: bloat the "known hashes" db rightly. [14:45]
ben_vulpes: oooh and make a bunch of work for 'ai' image recognition programmers [14:45]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: afaik they use humans [14:45]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: at what point in the toolchain? [14:46]
mircea_popescu: how exactly were some people capable of geting "hashes" of files they need some dork's password to decrypt ? [14:46]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: when deciding what to plant on the 'criminal' comp, naturally [14:47]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "decrypted mac pro but not external hdds" [14:47]
mircea_popescu: ... [14:47]
mircea_popescu: maybe i'm slow, but i can't connect that to the q ? [14:47]
ben_vulpes: didja read the article? [14:48]
mircea_popescu: ah i did not. [14:48]
asciilifeform: readerz write in : https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/blog/posts/pitchfork.html << new tardano. [16:37]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, ACHTUNG s.nsa customers! moar FUCKGOATS shipped today. see your invoice www pg to learn if yours was in this batch. [16:38]
asciilifeform: https://camp.hsbp.org/2016/pp7e0/fahrplan/system/attachments/22/original/camp__.pdf << sooo i look at his pcb -- antenna track?! then read, 'key exchange over 2.4GHz', 'post-quantum crypto (newhope and symmetric)' [16:42]
asciilifeform: that was pretty quick snoar-inducer. [16:42]
Framedragger: hm, even among new hipster crypto people newhope was still supposed to be 'experimental' / new (2015) [16:44]
Framedragger: it's one thing tor jumping ahead with newhope because omg POSTQUANTUM, but a pgp board.. lol [16:44]
asciilifeform: aaaaanything-but-rsa!!!1111 [16:45]
Framedragger: the radio interface is hipsta but talk about increased attack surface omg. [16:45]
shinohai: Bored with all those other apps? Examine thy semen! http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/3/22/15009960/male-fertility-device-smartphone-app-semen-test [16:46]
Framedragger: luckily there haven't been any leakage of key material over radio [16:46]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: for some reason 9 out of 10 tardanos have onboard radios. [16:46]
Framedragger: congratz on fuckgoats shipments asciilifeform btw [16:46]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: got yours yet ? [16:47]
Framedragger: and congratz mod6 on V release [16:47]
ben_vulpes: !!up eo [16:47]
deedbot: eo voiced for 30 minutes. [16:47]
Framedragger: asciilifeform: not yet, airstrip1 royalmail.legit.biz must still be scanning it :) [16:48]
ben_vulpes: does nobody up strangers anymore? [16:48]
Framedragger: (mail from US takes a while here sometimes) [16:48]
asciilifeform: i do idly wonder what the parcels will look like on the other end of their trip. [16:48]
asciilifeform: that one time i sent a sample of boards to mircea_popescu , in 2014, was a real lulzfest [16:49]
ben_vulpes: heh, link? pics? [16:49]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc he posted a photo at some point, is in the l0gz [16:50]
ben_vulpes: i assume, yes, and ask as i have nfi what even to search for [16:52]
phf: ben_vulpes: i was thinking of wiring in an auto-upper for never seen accounts, but given the quality of ups.. i do wonder, if were to up them "faster" maybe they'll talk better [16:52]
ben_vulpes: i'd almost rather see an auto-kicker [16:53]
Framedragger: #trilema-lounge [16:53]
ben_vulpes: "has nick joined and parted within the past week without saying anything after receiving voice?" [16:54]
Framedragger: bots autoup folks there, use channel as funnel of good material into #trilema or, bots calculate entropy of nicks outputting there, creating automatic pipeline.. horrible idea i know [16:54]
phf: i'm not sure the idea is relevant, since you can just have an open channel for funneling already [16:55]
phf: but it's not advertised anywhere. bulk of random strangers is going t come here [16:56]
Framedragger: yeah sure [16:56]
phf: also the whole "funnel of good material" was the original idea behind mp's "start your own channels" [16:56]
ben_vulpes: i'll be surprised if new people are even welcome without immediately joining the wot and introducing themselves much after q3 [16:57]
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: q3? like, 3rd quarter of year? [16:58]
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: what else [16:58]
Framedragger: just sounded oddly specific [16:59]
ben_vulpes: "much after q3" is specific to you? [16:59]
ben_vulpes: nm, chores [17:00]
* ben_vulpes bbl [17:00]
Framedragger: i simply haven't internalised the republic's world_takeover_timeline.txt [17:02]
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1630987 << for a second this looked like a response to the previous line :D [17:03]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 20:46 Framedragger: luckily there haven't been any leakage of key material over radio [17:03]
Framedragger: heh works well with both :) [17:08]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631002 << the remoras, historically, have shown 0 interest in talking, or - when talking - in making any sense [17:21]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 20:52 phf: ben_vulpes: i was thinking of wiring in an auto-upper for never seen accounts, but given the quality of ups.. i do wonder, if were to up them "faster" maybe they'll talk better [17:21]
asciilifeform: the folx who actually want to speak -- and have something to say -- follow the instructions, they ask somebody for an 'up'. [17:21]
ben_vulpes: mhm [17:23]
asciilifeform: !!up fd_travel [17:41]
deedbot: fd_travel voiced for 30 minutes. [17:41]
fd_travel: good news, scriba et al.'s hosting provider is doing maintenance again, only this time it's scheduled (http://gedimai.iv.lt/?id=610) [17:41]
* fd_travel will change provider. [17:41]
asciilifeform: kernel?! [17:42]
asciilifeform: it's on a vps?! [17:42]
ben_vulpes: such interrobang [17:42]
fd_travel: yesyes. fwiw the ssh banner db is on dedicated server. i just have an old vps which has been doing just fine actually [17:42]
fd_travel: for websites n' stuff. but need to move to normal box [17:43]
fd_travel: hey to my knowledge quite a bit of tmsr infra is on vps :) [17:43]
ben_vulpes: do you have a citation for that claim? [17:43]
fd_travel: i recall checking deedbot's and a111's IPs (digitalocean etc), but hey, if it worx. [17:44]
fd_travel: that said, not the best of arguments. [17:44]
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform's www is on a vps, has been for decade+ , but it is not 'infrastructure'. ) [17:44]
fd_travel: (so, to be clear -- will move) [17:44]
ben_vulpes: do has full boxes for rent [17:44]
fd_travel: mk. (anyway, that was inane of me, need to move forward, not sideways) [17:45]
fd_travel: ah hi scriba [17:45]
ben_vulpes: don't they? [17:46]
fd_travel: i wouldn't trust their virtualised 'dedicated box' offer to actually be dedicated but who knows [17:46]
ben_vulpes: suppose not, color me wrong. [17:46]
* fd_travel has used DO before, does its job [17:46]
asciilifeform: i am actually rather fond of my vps hoster, nfs co (discussed in the logs at least twice, one of which was the time mircea_popescu wrote to them 'why not bitcoin?' and they answered 'bitcoin is a snore', he then barfed) [17:47]
asciilifeform: i pay couplea bux per mo for what is in effect five-nines uptime, and the closest thing i've ever seen to infinite ddos resistance [17:48]
asciilifeform: and with 0 'cloudflare' or whatever other hipsterism. [17:49]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: nfs does 'vps'? [17:49]
asciilifeform: the minus is that it is (yes) in usa, and has very limited support for anything that isn't text www [17:49]
fd_travel: i wonder how they handle ddos. i mean, maybe your blog is just not baitsy enough :p [17:50]
ben_vulpes: in other top lols, you can now have a "custom gender" in the google play store [17:50]
ben_vulpes: my gender is now "Marquis" [17:51]
asciilifeform: fd_travel: they have a strange and ancient setup, you use their nameserver, the boxes actually serving up your thing, vary, the ip is not static, quite eldritch [17:51]
fd_travel: huh custom load balancing magic [17:52]
asciilifeform: aha, and long before 'it was hip' [17:52]
asciilifeform: they also claim that they have never dropped a paying account other than by court order , but i have no way of knowing if true. [17:54]
asciilifeform: at any rate, for the price it is quite impossible to beat, i have nfi how they are able to supply this kind of service, at that price. [17:54]
fd_travel: yeah i liked quite a few things about them when i spotted them long ago, micro-precision accounting, etc. [17:54]
asciilifeform: aha, pay per byte. [17:54]
asciilifeform: (they also have a thing, iirc, where you can buy 'buckets' of bandwidth, for use in case of elaborate ddos, but i have not tried it) [17:55]
asciilifeform: the unfortunate thing is that nfs co. is quite useless for most of the purposes of most folx here. [17:56]
asciilifeform: no persistent unix processes permitted. [17:56]
Framedragger: (scriba failing to self-up - checking) [17:56]
Framedragger: (*ah*, that separate "UP" in deedbot's msg) [17:57]
asciilifeform: also ben_vulpes may be right, i do not know if the proper name for what nfs co does is 'vps'. [17:58]
asciilifeform: it is more barbaric, even, than vps. [17:58]
ben_vulpes: shared hosting, traditionally, no? but what else is a vps but shared hosting [17:59]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it is closer to vps, actually, you get an ssh login and a thing that superficially resembles an actual linux box from inside said ssh [17:59]
asciilifeform: (rather than a proprietary crapolade uploader, or ftp, as typical in ye olde 'shared host') [18:00]
asciilifeform: but of course it is emulated, and is expected to not hog the cpu. [18:00]
ben_vulpes: wacky [18:01]
ben_vulpes: i don't want to think about that [18:01]
asciilifeform: afaik unique. [18:01]
ben_vulpes: possibly lxc-alike per ssh conn? [18:01]
asciilifeform: i do not in fact know the exact mechanism. [18:01]
asciilifeform: whatever it is, had to have been around in '07. [18:01]
asciilifeform: and earlier. [18:02]
asciilifeform: for all i know, they wrote from scratch. [18:02]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you get a postgres process tho. by ticking a box in the www acct panel it then magically appears in your pseudolinux. [18:04]
Framedragger: (k fixd) [18:04]
Framedragger: asciilifeform: pretty nifty! [18:05]
asciilifeform: Framedragger: it suffers -- besides the obvious minuses described earlier -- from the martian problem. i.e. if it ever dies, there is no ready replacement [18:06]
asciilifeform: wholly custom, made by perhaps long-dead gnomes. [18:06]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: whoa a whole process? not a connection? [18:06]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: we are speaking of simulacra. i have nfi if it is physically a 'whole' process. [18:07]
asciilifeform: certainly nobody ought to suffer any delusion of crypto-isolation, when buying vpsolade. [18:07]
ben_vulpes: spooky [18:07]
asciilifeform: the thing is hyper-optimized for hosting well-ddosed blogs. and specifically ones running on 1990s-style software, where the cpu is idle except when somebody is actually loading a page. but other than that imposes no restrictions on proggies you run, last i saw you even had gcc in there, could build own, run. [18:08]
asciilifeform: i set up a lisp in there once, even (i forget which, may have been clisp) but it was a pain, whole process had to be born when page is loaded, and promptly die [18:09]
mircea_popescu: in other news, mp takes girl to picnic at neighbourhood park, she goes naked, within 15 minutes there's half a dozen local cops around the blanket being all concerned. [18:09]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is that even a ticketable offense in mircea_popesculandia ? [18:10]
asciilifeform: ( in usa it is just short of armed robbery , afaik, though ianal ) [18:10]
mircea_popescu: i didn't get a ticket for it. [18:10]
mircea_popescu: but apparently TEH WOMEN complained. [18:10]
asciilifeform: who ELSE could've possibly complained lel [18:10]
mircea_popescu: anyway, to my eye the amusing thing is that if you get a nude hottie out in the open, what'll happen is the half dozen boys that'll dare approach will a) be symbolically protected by their magical uniform garb and b) ask for the perturbation in the force be removed OH PLEASE GOD MAKE IT GO AWAY. [18:11]
mircea_popescu: somewhat at odds with the public imagination of you know, gangrape-till-daybreak (if imaginer is female) or else "they'll start zombieing around with beers, eventually some dude will try to make money renting folding chairs, that sorta thing". [18:12]
mircea_popescu: anyway, it was lulzy, "let's see your papers" "well i don't carry them" "why not ?" "the embassy told me not to because i'll get robbed." "oh". [18:13]
mircea_popescu: apparently they're very enamoured with the idea that you get robbed here. nfi why. i guess it keeps them in jobs. [18:13]
asciilifeform: here in northern monkeystan 'no papers' is a guaranteed trip to the station. [18:14]
mircea_popescu: i suspect everyone in the field just HAD to come over to see this wonder. i'm guessing they literally never heard of such before. [18:14]
mircea_popescu: anyway. sarge explained to me that it's not done here. and also wanted to know if i "consume" [18:15]
mircea_popescu: which i deduce is their slang for smoking pot. [18:15]
mircea_popescu: because, he points out, also not to be done in public. [18:15]
ben_vulpes: what, he wasn't going to offer you one for the privilege of staring at your babe? [18:15]
mircea_popescu: i think he was married. there was a very hot and bothared youth. he made it first. [18:16]
mircea_popescu: i imagine he ran. also i don't imagine he got any this year. [18:16]
mircea_popescu: "omg she was completely naked!!1" [18:16]
mircea_popescu: was trying to get phones from the people around "for evidence". [18:17]
asciilifeform: waiwat [18:17]
asciilifeform: how would that work [18:17]
mircea_popescu: i have nfi. he never heard of tumblr i guess ? [18:18]
diana_coman: that sounds close enough/toward the "make money renting folding chairs" though, doesn't it? [18:18]
diana_coman: the"evidence" [18:18]
asciilifeform: presumption being that they took photos, of the 'crime scene'..? [18:18]
mircea_popescu: yep, quite exactly diana_coman [18:18]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well... considering what's on youtube, i wouldn't be surprised if they had. [18:18]
diana_coman: so perhaps not that much at odds after all re the female imagined part, I suspect that has more to do with fact that ... "what'll happen" depends on who gets her out [18:19]
mircea_popescu: eh. no way in fuck anyone walks up to a naked woman and talks to her. [18:19]
mircea_popescu: they can't do it even when dressed. [18:19]
diana_coman: what, no "gipsy" anywhere? [18:20]
mircea_popescu: hm ? [18:20]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1630979 << omaigerd stop dribbling them out!!1 [18:26]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 20:38 asciilifeform: meanwhile, ACHTUNG s.nsa customers! moar FUCKGOATS shipped today. see your invoice www pg to learn if yours was in this batch. [18:26]
diana_coman: back in Ro, in my experience gipsies had fewer if any such troubles re speaking to women, naked or not they were quite cowards (i.e. if someone took them to task/seemed powerful around they would retreat) but otherwise not suffering from much anxiety re the interaction itself [18:26]
mircea_popescu: and fuck me i'm not reading that ctrlc.hu marmalade. "after years of marmalade im done" [18:27]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman no gypsies. [18:27]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you missed nothing. [18:27]
asciilifeform: thing is entirely summarized in the log. [18:27]
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631037 << must be recalling with arse neurons. [18:44]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 21:44 fd_travel: i recall checking deedbot's and a111's IPs (digitalocean etc), but hey, if it worx. [18:44]
trinque: !#s from:trinque datacenter [18:46]
a111: 3 results for "from:trinque datacenter", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Atrinque%20datacenter [18:46]
trinque: starting to tire of this kid's sideways manner of talking. [18:48]
trinque: ftr, all trb downloads come from a dedicated deeds box I've been happy to run as core infrastructure pro bono. [18:49]
trinque: those downloads of deeds are coming from my pipe, not "our VPS" [18:49]
ben_vulpes: this leaves i believe phf's wintermute, with its once-decade of uptime [18:50]
trinque: strike that, all trb deps mod6 deeded he is hosting the V stuff. [18:51]
trinque: and understand, outside of the L1, your opinion on how infrastructure is run is worth nothing, and your "everyone does X, so I can" construction makes you sound like a bed-wetter. [18:53]
mod6: <+trinque> strike that, all trb deps mod6 deeded he is hosting the V stuff. << fwiw it's also posted to the ML which is on some other environment. [18:55]
ben_vulpes: in entirely others topics, gentoo quest ppc edition has stumbled on step boot-from-usb [18:56]
ben_vulpes: so i have procured OPTICAL MEDIA [18:56]
trinque: mod6: I'm quite happy to host anything that supports trb work [18:56]
trinque: ben_vulpes: there's some txbi thing in openfirmware [18:56]
trinque: buncha weird slashes and nonsense spells [18:57]
mod6: also, I think the idea of deedifying my version of V is also worthwhile... I think I've simply been waiting for it to satisfy the constraints before creating a genesis. Once that's created, then I'd say it'd be worthy of freezing. [18:58]
trinque: ben_vulpes: https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/macppc/INSTALL.macppc << I want to say the device comes up as "ud" for USB... sometimes [18:58]
ben_vulpes: yeah i got into open firmware, attempted booting from all usb options [18:58]
trinque: not that you're doing obsd, but the docs there are helpful [18:58]
ben_vulpes: sans incantations because i had no idea which would take [18:58]
ben_vulpes: optical media is a go, though. [18:59]
trinque: sweet [18:59]
ben_vulpes: thing showed up with a fresh 10.4 install [18:59]
* ben_vulpes sighs a sigh for the days gone by [18:59]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: is this one of those boxes that had liquid cooler standard ? [19:00]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: negative [19:00]
asciilifeform: ( iirc the quad core one, had ) [19:00]
ben_vulpes: i've yet to lay hands on a qc [19:01]
asciilifeform: was the last 'serious' crapple [19:01]
asciilifeform: (i.e. not a repainted wintel box, but actual exotica) [19:02]
asciilifeform: http://s3.postimg.org/qonfcus43/G5_Dual_LCU.jpg << subj. [19:02]
ben_vulpes: huh [19:03]
ben_vulpes: i don't think i want watercooled irreplaceable computronium [19:03]
Framedragger: trinque: sorry for the noise, man. you're right, of course. [19:04]
ben_vulpes: "iirc" is fine...provided one r's c [19:06]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it wasn't the quad ? [19:06]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't have any quads yet [19:06]
asciilifeform: aah [19:06]
ben_vulpes: and if they're water cooled i'll probably pass [19:07]
trinque: seems like quads are a bit harder to find [19:07]
ben_vulpes: trinque: probably still in use at graphics hausen [19:07]
trinque: aha [19:07]
asciilifeform: if you ever do find -- fill it with fluorinert. [19:07]
ben_vulpes: this is like a water cooled small plane engine [19:08]
ben_vulpes: as if the plane weren't stupidly complex enough already, let's bolt another pile of heinous complexity to it as well [19:09]
* asciilifeform had a water-cooled box, with around six litres, for some years. (it ~did~ eventually leak.) [19:09]
ben_vulpes: it is unavoidable! [19:10]
ben_vulpes: helicopters are also unconscionably complex devices [19:10]
asciilifeform: i could picture a water-cooled thing with a very short loop, and good seals (i.e. no expectation of ever being able to disassemble it: welded copper pipes, like your fridge) not leaking. [19:11]
asciilifeform: at least for few decades. [19:11]
ben_vulpes: may as well immerse in mineral oil at that point. [19:12]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc we had this thread [19:12]
ben_vulpes: right [19:12]
asciilifeform: konsoomer electronics doesn't much like oil [19:12]
asciilifeform: (electrolytic caps, in particular) [19:12]
asciilifeform: you'd have to varnish them, i suspect. [19:12]
ben_vulpes: the one additional point possibly worth making is that don't run your engines hot if you want them to last. [19:12]
ben_vulpes: you want to hoon around the parking lot making smoke? buy a drift slut, don't do that to the wrx [19:13]
ben_vulpes: not only is that terrible for your alignment but if you ever even come close to hitting the rev limiter in a car you want to preserve the value of.... [19:14]
ben_vulpes: heaven help you [19:14]
asciilifeform: http://www.parallax-tech.com/fluorine.htm << fluorinert peddler in small qrt. asciilifeform has not tried. but entertaining read. [19:15]
asciilifeform: *qnt. [19:15]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> in entirely others topics, gentoo quest ppc edition has stumbled on step boot-from-usb << entirely typical of my experience of this wonder. [19:17]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hvac units leak after about 3 years. [19:19]
asciilifeform: where, in aerial combat over vietnam ? [19:19]
mircea_popescu: in commercial deployments. [19:19]
asciilifeform: even in humble auto, ~0 typically, mine was last filled decade ago. [19:20]
asciilifeform: and worx. [19:20]
mircea_popescu: hey. musta not been made in china. [19:21]
asciilifeform: yea it's a pre-plastic auto. [19:21]
asciilifeform: among the last. [19:21]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631002 << terrible idea. [19:21]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 20:52 phf: ben_vulpes: i was thinking of wiring in an auto-upper for never seen accounts, but given the quality of ups.. i do wonder, if were to up them "faster" maybe they'll talk better [19:21]
mircea_popescu: let them fix their problems themselves. [19:22]
* shinohai remembers the Dogecoin chan had this, worked exactly as one would expect ..... [19:22]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631005 << this is not a bad idea, for eventually. [19:22]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 20:54 ben_vulpes: "has nick joined and parted within the past week without saying anything after receiving voice?" [19:22]
* ben_vulpes off [19:25]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631052 << part of the problem is eg trilema has i dun recall how many gb of acumulated pix. though i've seen very hardcore text blogs and didn't look so bad. [19:27]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 21:49 asciilifeform: the minus is that it is (yes) in usa, and has very limited support for anything that isn't text www [19:27]
asciilifeform: i also have a gb or so of pix. [19:27]
asciilifeform: (not , naturally, as many as trilema.) [19:27]
mircea_popescu: ah. then non-text www works fine too [19:27]
asciilifeform: what i meant was, text vs 'apps' or whatever other strange 'modern' crapola [19:28]
asciilifeform: ( and you couldn't put, e.g., trb in there. ) [19:29]
mircea_popescu: yea [19:33]
mircea_popescu: course the "apps" are mostly js neh [19:33]
mircea_popescu: tbh i have nfi how you could run trb in a vps. i don't think it's possible, not really. would be certainly quite the medal of merit on any software that can handle such. [19:34]
asciilifeform: you couldn't [19:34]
asciilifeform: nor have i any notion of why to try [19:35]
asciilifeform: ( it'll be interesting , however, if i ever actually turn 'nqb' into something like a btctron, to see what it'll run on, with the programmable memory footprint and hard-realtime mechanics.. ) [19:38]
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i've spent the last couple evenings since ppc thread re-emerged trying to run openbsd 6 on macppc. can't get the bloody machine to recognise cdrom OR usb. open firmware, boot screen, etc nada zilch zip. [19:39]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: what kind of box was this [19:39]
pete_dushenski: 2.0ghz dual core with 9600 card. vintage '05 iirc [19:39]
pete_dushenski: 10.4 installed, 2.5gb ram. [19:39]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, pete_dushenski , trinque , et al : here's a top from asciilifeform's house of horrors : don't bother selective-booting the things. just yank the drive and put what you want on it ~directly~, then put back. [19:40]
asciilifeform: i don't recall ever installing gentoo, for instance, any other way [19:40]
asciilifeform: *a tip from [19:41]
pete_dushenski: myea, that's next step for sure. was trying to configure dual boot for no other reason than that i like the idea of 10.4 in the house. but that's probably a lost cause. there's only so much time to dump into the sinkhole. [19:41]
asciilifeform: if the box eats reasonably ordinary (e.g. sata) disks, rather than, say, differential scsi (sgi, sun) or archaic ???s (symbolics 36xx, others) -- even easier. [19:41]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: lolwhy [19:42]
asciilifeform: 10.4 iirc was a bitch [19:42]
pete_dushenski: nostalgia has no whys [19:42]
asciilifeform: nostalgia --> os9 [19:42]
asciilifeform: btw maybe pete_dushenski can tell me the seekrit of how to get 'lombard' to eat an ssd. [19:43]
asciilifeform: i tried five different ones, incl. compactflash adapters, no dice. [19:43]
asciilifeform: thing gathers dust nao. [19:43]
phf: pretty sure it won't, i even read a reason for it, but don't recall what it is anymore [19:44]
pete_dushenski: powerbook g3 ? thought those were nifty as a kid but i was still on desktops at the time. brief foray into laptopery didn't come until college in 04 [19:44]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: yea, them [19:44]
asciilifeform: phf: interesting, if you ever remember what it was, lemme know plz [19:45]
asciilifeform: i tried same disk i used (successfully) in 'libretto 100ct', still 0 result. [19:45]
asciilifeform: standard, you'd think, pata. but nope. [19:45]
asciilifeform: box won't see it. [19:45]
phf: "standard" [19:46]
mircea_popescu: standard pata :D [19:46]
mircea_popescu: "this is a standard ibm pc at clone" [19:46]
asciilifeform: hey there was actually a standard. [19:46]
mircea_popescu: "standard in which way ?" "that's unspecified." [19:46]
asciilifeform: with timings & all. [19:46]
asciilifeform: (ssd pata disks work fine in dos boxes, etc) [19:47]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: have you tried https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Mercury_Legacy_Pro with the lombard ? 'ide/ata design' [19:49]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: not that particular one, no. [19:49]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i don't even see any mention of g3 lappy on the vendor's www [19:51]
PeterL: asciilifeform: is your gentoo recipe published somewhere? I tried searching the logs, but all I found was an expired dpaste? [19:52]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/powerbook << not listed. [19:53]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: aha nvm. that owc drive works with pismo [19:53]
pete_dushenski: not other g3 powerbooks tho [19:53]
asciilifeform: PeterL: https://archive.is/VA3ov [19:53]
asciilifeform: PeterL: ^ that's all there ever was to it [19:53]
PeterL: ok, thanks! [19:54]
asciilifeform: PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-11#1601534 << example kernel config [19:54]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-11 18:45 asciilifeform: phf: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/4_1_15_stas.txt [19:54]
asciilifeform: from same. [19:54]
phf: i ended up running openbsd on that box [19:55]
asciilifeform: phf: how did that go ? [19:55]
* asciilifeform still has a 'libretto' with openbsd [19:55]
phf: everything just works [19:56]
phf: i think the only thing i haven't tried yet is the stylus, which doesn't work if you just startx. i vaguely suspect there's a second mouse device i need to wire into the right place.. [19:57]
asciilifeform: incl. x11 emacs sans dbus ? [19:57]
asciilifeform: ( was where i ran out of stamina ) [19:57]
asciilifeform: phf: the wacom ? it's a 2nd mouse, aha [19:57]
phf: please refer to yesterday's thread re emacs :D [19:58]
mircea_popescu: lmao [19:58]
asciilifeform: lel [19:58]
asciilifeform: PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-20#1436604 << was even tested!111 [19:58]
a111: Logged on 2016-03-20 13:54 mircea_popescu: phf> ok, not sure if anybody tried yet, but asciilifeform's gentoo chicken works as prescribed << it does, yes, and it IS a very good and useful thing. almost makes me feel bad when mocking linuxen. [19:58]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: 16gb 1.8" sandisk seems to work https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/15077-possibly-the-quickest-drive-for-the-powerbook-g3/ perhaps larger capacities too. [19:58]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: on examination it turns out the box is a 'wallstreet' [19:59]
asciilifeform: not a 'lombard'. [19:59]
pete_dushenski: lolk [19:59]
asciilifeform: and i have literally that disk here, in the tray, 0 result. [19:59]
pete_dushenski: i give up [19:59]
asciilifeform: tried various cf cards in (mechanical) adapter, also. [20:00]
asciilifeform: (large, small, == the original disk, all same.) [20:00]
asciilifeform: oh while phf is awake ! : didja ever get that ivory cpu working ? [20:02]
phf: oh yeah, i forgot about it. i got distracted because my console is not here with me, so i spent some time setting up xorg/telnet/networking [20:04]
asciilifeform: aah ok [20:04]
phf: i'm trying to figure out why genera's x client is crashing openbsd x server. but once i do i'll try the chip [20:05]
asciilifeform: interesting ^ -- apparently x11 was not as standard as i thought [20:05]
phf: "standard" [20:06]
asciilifeform: ( and do i misread, or is phf's setup the reverse of the usual one, where genera is the server, and unix box -- client ? ) [20:06]
phf: you can do it either way, but right now genera is client and unix is server [20:06]
phf: apparently there's an xserver implementation in genera! so can probably get xterm displayed. [20:07]
asciilifeform: seems like a way to make a really slow xterminal ? [20:07]
phf: i'm confused. genera is client, unix is server means that genera is going to display itself in a window on a unix box. (client/server in xorg terminology) [20:08]
asciilifeform: aaah i was thinking of the traditional, rather than the x11istic, meanings, yes [20:09]
asciilifeform: 'genera shits x11olade, unix box -- displays to screen and eats keyboard' [20:09]
asciilifeform: so phf's setup is the usual one then. [20:10]
phf: yeah, trying to sidestep lack of console [20:11]
asciilifeform: i always thought this was one of the spiffiest things re the smbx boxes [20:11]
asciilifeform: that the console is not really needed [20:12]
asciilifeform: if i ever make the fpgaized thing, it sure as fuck won't bother trying to drive an lcd or eat keyboard, wtf, just speak x11. [20:12]
asciilifeform: (there is, as of yet, nothing resembling a tolerable substitute for x11 protocol, sadly.) [20:12]
phf: you mean wayland!1 [20:13]
asciilifeform: i've lost track of all of the crackpot 'i can't believe it's not x11!'s. [20:13]
phf: i think not-transfering-letter-shapes-over-wire is one of the most useful features of protocol. naturally was first one to get subverted [20:15]
asciilifeform: aha. [20:15]
asciilifeform: not moving bitmaps when there is any way to avoid it, also. [20:15]
asciilifeform: ( consider the barbarisms winblowz folx are STILL stuck with, e.g., vnc. ) [20:16]
asciilifeform: incidentally, i wonder if anybody's ever written a vnc worm. [20:17]
phf: i think the argument was, you can't do aa with ttf unless you're composing client side. [20:17]
asciilifeform: ( you can easily piss an exe into existence, via vnc, using 'alt codes' , or by getting hold of exploder and pissing in a url to load from, or possibly other ways. similar process in other os with exposed vnctron ) [20:18]
phf: i tried doing that through the citrix client, no dice (back when i was working for a place tha tuses a citrix client) [20:18]
asciilifeform: do which [20:19]
asciilifeform: alt codes ? [20:19]
phf: yeah [20:19]
asciilifeform: or what, it won't process 'click on exploder and go to such-n-such url' ? [20:19]
shinohai: http://archive.is/4AQNB "Rising polonium prices and a stagnant economy force Russians to use gravity poisoning to save rubles" [20:21]
shinohai: I think our friend Preet was prosecuting that case iirc [20:22]
asciilifeform: phf: i wonder if anybody still makes ye olde xterminals [20:24]
asciilifeform: physical ones. the kind that run from rom and just look like lcd monitors with keyboard jack and nic. [20:24]
asciilifeform: connect to whatever, lose all state when unplugged. [20:24]
asciilifeform: sun, iirc, made one, but that was eons ago. [20:24]
phf: that would be a nifty project if it didn't just reduce to "raspberry pi" [20:26]
asciilifeform: not rom neh [20:26]
asciilifeform: i did say 'rom', not 'flash'. [20:26]
phf: xorg in fpga.. [20:27]
asciilifeform: every couplea months i do an 'can haz otp rom?' and answer, as always, is 'nope', not at any price, simply not made in past 30 yrs. [20:27]
asciilifeform: the supposed otp roms you can buy now, are actually eproms without the quartz window. [20:27]
asciilifeform: nothx. [20:28]
asciilifeform: (they don't come in any size bigger than , iirc, 64kB, either.) [20:28]
asciilifeform: for instance, i wanted to make FUCKGOATS in otp. no dice. [20:28]
asciilifeform: not gettable. [20:28]
asciilifeform: not without paying for the fabbing wholesale (at which point you have asic, and can simply have what you want in the asic) [20:29]
phf: you ask for such things [20:29]
phf: it's an alt future technoloyg [20:29]
asciilifeform: i ask, naively, for tech of 30 yrs ago to be available at some price point [20:30]
mircea_popescu: alt-1980s [20:30]
mircea_popescu: emulated in 2030 [20:30]
asciilifeform: but nope. it went the way of mircea_popescu's top hat. [20:30]
phf: speaking of FUCKGOATS, project PITCHFORK? i still can't get over that one [20:30]
asciilifeform: phf: lulzy, neh. [20:31]
mircea_popescu: i thought i was just being paranoid. [20:31]
asciilifeform: (oh imho a future otp rom, if anyone finds himself sitting on a throne, and wants to make one, ought to have not one but TWO fuses per bit. so that nobody can turn a 1 into a 0 later by blowing an unblown fuse. so you'd have 10 -> 1 01 -> 0 11 -> dead cell, ergo dead chip 00 -> blank cell, only found on blank (new) chip.) [20:32]
mircea_popescu: nothing prevents you from using a normal one this way as it is. [20:32]
asciilifeform: ideally you'd have the glass window on it, as on an epro, also! but strictly so that you can read it optically. [20:33]
asciilifeform: *eprom [20:33]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tru! but won't be pin-compatible with traditional roms [20:33]
asciilifeform: (for some applications this matters) [20:33]
mircea_popescu: yeah well. [20:33]
asciilifeform: 'if i had a ' hamme^H^H^H^H^Hfab, i'd start with very humble things, like... rom. [20:34]
mircea_popescu: none of it will work until we have the whip to starve the jus' wanting to masses. [20:35]
mircea_popescu: them of the "Why should i do it right when i could do it easy" church. [20:35]
asciilifeform: i thought mircea_popescu was of the notion that you don't need economy of mass to do si fab. [20:35]
mircea_popescu: you still need anti-mass. [20:35]
asciilifeform: how so? [20:35]
asciilifeform: what's to keep mircea_popescu from building one in his cellar ( supposing he felt like it ) [20:36]
mircea_popescu: ordinary jwz must have no alternatives. otherwise... ordinary jwz will pretend he exists. [20:36]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mircea_popescu already has. [20:36]
asciilifeform: can haz few mm^2 of die space, mircea_popescu ? [20:36]
mircea_popescu: point being -- dorks go around pretending they're doing "end to end encryption". this field must not exist in order for mp's cellar fab to work irl. [20:37]
asciilifeform: it already does not exist, 'but the squirrels don't know' [20:37]
mircea_popescu: well squirrels gotta find out. [20:38]
asciilifeform: ( per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579090 canonical ) [20:38]
a111: Logged on 2016-12-07 15:31 asciilifeform: 'well ~i~! know now that i'm not an acorn. but do THE SQUIRRELS know??????' [20:38]
mircea_popescu: that's the rub. not "need one billion". you don't. but you DO need a giant fly swatter to oppress teh masses with. [20:38]
asciilifeform: faux crypto ain't ever going away, it is like homeopathy, astrology, fills a niche in the poor, the lazy, the intellectually powerless, for 'control' [20:38]
mircea_popescu: homeopathy, etc are all CONSUMER MARKET PHENOMENA. [20:39]
mircea_popescu: take the consumer away, all these problems of peon opining are solved. [20:39]
asciilifeform: iirc no less a man than hitler, supported whole stable of alchemists, quacks. [20:39]
asciilifeform: dun have to be mass/konsoomer oriented. [20:39]
mircea_popescu: this is what needs buckling, the centenary trend of turning medieval serfs into modern consumers. [20:39]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you think hitler was much of a man ?! [20:40]
asciilifeform: well not garden gnome. [20:40]
mircea_popescu: srsly now, hitler was a rank imbecile, and in practical terms a major discredit to his country. [20:40]
mircea_popescu: had germany been led by a sane man, it'd have just maintained a defensive alliance with japan an' argentina. never empowered the idiots, not in italy, not in russia. [20:40]
asciilifeform: take qin shi huangdi , say. definitely a credit, one of the few credits, to his. [20:41]
mircea_popescu: stalin without the war would have fallen flat under the weight of his own imbecillity by 1945. [20:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the quack of 5millenia before is not a comparable item in this scope though. [20:41]
asciilifeform: 'they can stay unfallen under the weight of their imbecility longer than you can stay solvent' or how did it go [20:41]
mircea_popescu: no way. [20:41]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tru [20:41]
mircea_popescu: a sanely managed german "empire" would have outcompeted britain out of the ground by 1950. [20:42]
mircea_popescu: this way, they had to wait till 2020. [20:42]
mircea_popescu: hitler cost germany a little over halfd a century. [20:42]
mircea_popescu: "lebensraum" fucking bs. they could have just colonized argentina. it's larger than fucking europe, and richer. [20:43]
mircea_popescu: but no, the yhad to go die pointlessly in fucking ukraine, so the italians colonized argentina 20 years later [20:43]
mircea_popescu: and UTTERLY shat it. this country was in the top 5 in 1920. because of the imperial german trade. [20:43]
mircea_popescu: now it's ~= chad. [20:43]
mircea_popescu: but to get back to it : no, hitler didn't have much of a clue, nor were any of his decisions either sound, useful or correct. [20:44]
mircea_popescu: just a derpy application of "to make a small fortune in X first you start with a large fortune." [20:44]
asciilifeform: point was that 1 idiot with actual money is ~= 10,000,001 with penny. [20:45]
asciilifeform: in terms of alchemy impact. [20:45]
mircea_popescu: i doubt this very much. [20:45]
mircea_popescu: it is much worse to have a town of 1000 populated by 500 idiots with idiots' tastes and 20 bucks to spend each [20:45]
mircea_popescu: than it is to have one idiot with 20k to burn. [20:45]
asciilifeform: ( and hitler was not even the champ, in his circle. consider the idiot chicken farmer's 'ahnenerbe' for instance. ) [20:46]
mircea_popescu: social effects. the maximal empowerment of rank imbecillity is where there's a lot of imbeciles with a little gas each. [20:46]
asciilifeform: tru. all of the nonsense of versailles did not destroy euro culture the 20th c -- did. [20:47]
mircea_popescu: which is the point of anti-inequality : simply TAKING the empire's money away from "the public" into the hands of the lizards is an improvement in teraforming terms. [20:47]
mircea_popescu: which is why corruption is the right thing, and anyone "fighting corruption" should be raped and then gutted. [20:47]
mircea_popescu: collect taxes, let them be stolen by individuals. [20:47]
mircea_popescu: this is also how capitalism starts. [20:47]
asciilifeform: this was tested in late su/90s ru. afaik summed to 0. [20:48]
mircea_popescu: 0 my foot. [20:48]
asciilifeform: orcs just pour golden toilet, and prop up western 'bank' chumpatron. [20:48]
mircea_popescu: hruschev had no idea how to get even with the us. check it out that putin humiliated obama. [20:48]
mircea_popescu: this is not 0, this is 1. THE 1. [20:48]
asciilifeform: in abstract it sounds entirely tru -- 'gotta get the money out of the hands of the beetle man.' but the actual history is somewhat puzzling -- 'beetle man' su had , e.g., steklov mathematical institute. '90s ru -- cocaine yachts, golden toilets. [20:50]
mircea_popescu: latter is better than former. [20:50]
mircea_popescu: you stubbornly measure only the height of the plank, then are surprised at volume differential. [20:51]
asciilifeform: say why i ought to be interested in anything other than the height of the plank. [20:51]
mircea_popescu: steklov math man was a 1km long, 1mm x 1mm individual. the cocaine yacht dude was 1m on all sides. [20:51]
mircea_popescu: the sqmm km long pile is not 1 cubic meter. [20:51]
asciilifeform: y'know one could build a mass of cockroach 10km on all sides. [20:51]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because irl volume matters. [20:51]
asciilifeform: it's what the americans -- did. [20:51]
mircea_popescu: hey, i know your entire life is dedicated to the proposition that geting 10% better at doing math is worth losing out 50% on salesmanship. [20:52]
mircea_popescu: this, however, is FALSE. [20:52]
asciilifeform: hey somebody gotta fall on the grenade, mircea_popescu . [20:52]
mircea_popescu: yes, "but mp, octopus also has tentacles" [20:52]
mircea_popescu: sure. problem is 70s ru had nothing but. [20:52]
asciilifeform: had (surprisingly to some folx) the first 'elbrus', quite competitive with cray1 [20:53]
mircea_popescu: an' romania had felix [20:53]
mircea_popescu: but none of them had the people with enough fucking sense to get out of the rain. [20:53]
mircea_popescu: exactly like china today. disciplined followers and local optimizers. [20:54]
asciilifeform: tru. which is why dead empire, in 'egyptological' museum, and not on the map [20:54]
asciilifeform: opposite, really, of china. [20:54]
mircea_popescu: in a sense. [20:54]
* asciilifeform brb, playing with pet [20:55]
mircea_popescu: imo us and su failed exactly the same way : once the message got put out that "don't worry, do your own thing, we got X covered", it died the next day [20:56]
mircea_popescu: dun matter "we got X covered" is "we're building socialism" or "they failed building socialism" [20:57]
mircea_popescu: once jwz is possible the place died. [20:57]
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631333 these suffer charge leakage ( like ordinary flash rom ) actual otp -- theoretically good for centuries. [21:09]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 00:27 asciilifeform: the supposed otp roms you can buy now, are actually eproms without the quartz window. [21:09]
asciilifeform: ( and quite impervious to radiation ) [21:10]
asciilifeform: which, i suspect, is why they got lizarded away. 'they' don't want cheap radhard cpu, rom. [21:11]
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631203 << Hey, I just replaced coolant hoses on car. Destroyed old leaky plastic "quick connect" fittings with screwdriver since they embrittled to become "always connected". Replaced them with thermoplastic heat shrink clamps. [22:41]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 23:21 asciilifeform: yea it's a pre-plastic auto. [22:41]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's wrong with stainless steel clamps ? [22:42]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Insufficiently novel. Try to preserve Saturn plasticar's plasticar theme. [22:42]
BingoBoingo: And the thermoplastic clamps have a very "clean" look to them. [22:44]
BingoBoingo: On the plus side the cooling system on this vehicle is just about the easiest possible thing to fill. Coolant reservoir is part of pressure system, heatercore is always open, thing is basically self burping. [22:48]
asciilifeform: !!up doppler [22:51]
deedbot: doppler voiced for 30 minutes. [22:51]
asciilifeform: !!rate doppler 1 new blood [22:52]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wZpiD/?raw=true [22:52]
asciilifeform: !!v 74529CA504C1406823EE4D1EFC7752977E28CF0E4AC4017672D6C40DFAD90E4E [22:52]
deedbot: asciilifeform rated doppler 1 << new blood [22:52]
doppler: excellent [22:56]
asciilifeform: happy wotbirthday doppler . [22:57]
asciilifeform: now say a bit re who you are ? what brings you here ? [22:58]
doppler: sure thing [22:59]
doppler: I was drawn in by the computer-related discussions I have seen from some of the users here [23:00]
doppler: I guess most notably, asciilifeform [23:00]
asciilifeform: more specifically ? [23:00]
doppler: well this is going to sound dumb but [23:00]
asciilifeform: ( maybe 90% of the material is in some sense 'computer related' lol ) [23:00]
doppler: I think I found your website through some ancient HN post [23:01]
doppler: I also have connections to some people who work on lisp machine restoration [23:01]
asciilifeform: do say more [23:02]
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform in particular is not esp. interested in 'lisp machine restoration' in the sense of 'old car restoration' hobbyists, but in reverse-engineering ) [23:03]
doppler: haha, well I think there are varying levels in the people I talk with [23:04]
doppler: I haven't done anything in that regard personally [23:05]
doppler: but I'm very interested in the topic [23:05]
asciilifeform: incidentally the real titan of 'bolixology' here is phf , rather than asciilifeform . [23:05]
doppler: phf knows at least one of the people i know [23:05]
doppler: I have enjoyed the content that I have read in the logs over some months and watched scroll by as I idled here the past few days [23:07]
doppler: so really I'm here to learn [23:07]
asciilifeform: we had a lively thread not long ago, where asciilifeform complains re primary activity of the top bolixologists seems to consist of sitting quietly, dog-in-the-manger-style, on piles of unpublished goodies [23:07]
asciilifeform: perhaps doppler will break the radio silence and post some docs [23:08]
doppler: what kinds are you looking for? [23:09]
asciilifeform: well, starting with the crown jewels , and down : [23:09]
doppler: haha [23:09]
asciilifeform: 1) the NS source for the last 'ivory'. [23:10]
asciilifeform: 2) NS itself. [23:10]
doppler: I wish. [23:10]
asciilifeform: 3) the uncensored (compl. with low-levels) src for last (8.3 afaik) genera. [23:10]
doppler: I say I'm here to learn and you hit me with such a request :) [23:11]
asciilifeform: doppler: learn, learn. [23:11]
asciilifeform: the 'i know people...' is what prompted the req. [23:11]
doppler: ah. [23:11]
doppler: well I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask them [23:11]
doppler: what are you working on presently? [23:12]
asciilifeform: entirely unrelated things. [23:12]
doppler: oh? [23:12]
asciilifeform: most of it is described, in painful detail, in the logs. [23:13]
doppler: sounds good [23:13]
asciilifeform: re 'non-crown' jewels of bolixdom, one example of useful thing that does not publicly exist anywhere -- the mere pinout of the 'ivory'. [23:14]
asciilifeform: ( it would be possible to build a behavioural test stand for it, if the pinout and timing characteristics were known. theoretically anyone with a 'macivory' and some spare time, could come up with these. ) [23:15]
doppler: hmm, i see [23:16]
asciilifeform: for some odd reason, not a single one of the folks who bought these relics, has seen it fit to do this work. [23:16]
asciilifeform: or even to take and post a high-resolution photo of the thing. [23:16]
doppler: it seems that many are caught up in the 'collection' aspect, maybe [23:17]
asciilifeform: it is almost as if they did not want their 3-10k $ investments to turn into the equivalent of old nintendo. [23:17]
asciilifeform: which any idiot can emulate. [23:17]
doppler: yeah [23:17]
asciilifeform: however that is precisely what i'm interested in. [23:17]
asciilifeform: making their investments -- worth ~$ 0. [23:18]
asciilifeform: the unfortunate bit is that we'll never get the ~people~ who built that thing, back. [23:25]
asciilifeform: i know for a fact that some of them -- are dead. [23:25]
asciilifeform: others -- long past the end of their intellectual working lives. [23:25]
asciilifeform: we could, however, get the ~artifact~ back. in theory. [23:25]
asciilifeform: ( and -- possibly -- some of the insider working notes. ) [23:26]
doppler: that part is sad, yes [23:26]
asciilifeform: the 'collectors', in my experience, have been the farthest possible thing from a help -- quite a hindrance, in fact. [23:26]
doppler: how much of the remaining equipment do you think is still "undiscovered"? [23:27]
doppler: ie. owned by people or parties that do not know the value of it [23:27]
asciilifeform: the equipment is not the issue, it is all available, for a price [23:27]
asciilifeform: the sources/schematics/etc. are the issue. [23:27]
doppler: might there be documentation along with the machines? [23:28]
asciilifeform: i have 100% of the published documentation here. [23:28]
asciilifeform: it fill a book case. [23:28]
asciilifeform: *fills [23:28]
asciilifeform: ( most of it is also on www ) [23:28]
doppler: I see. [23:28]
asciilifeform: the published documentation is of 0 use in cloning the machine. [23:28]
asciilifeform: ( quite deliberately ) [23:28]
asciilifeform: symbolics -- also quite deliberately -- never even printed an honest instruction set reference, for any of the machines. [23:29]
doppler: I do see why that would be to their advantage [23:30]
asciilifeform: it wasn't an outrageous / illogical / atrocious thing to do. smbx was a fabless chip maker which competed directly with, among others, TI ('explorer' lispm) [23:31]
doppler: right. [23:31]
asciilifeform: the result, however, is that the ~singularly~ most interesting comp from 1980s -- is ~entirely lost . [23:33]
asciilifeform: the old iron, doppler , is not -- contrary to the delusions of 'collectors' -- interesting per se. the ~software~ was not even interesting per se -- it was a tall pile of stinking mit hacks. the CONCEPTS, however, as described in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 , WERE interesting. [23:39]
asciilifeform: and ergo the software, to the extent it embodied these concepts -- which was quite large -- is interesting [23:39]
asciilifeform: and the iron -- is also of interest, in so far as it made the soft -- possible. [23:40]
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