Forum logs for 11 Oct 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
Mocky: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-10-oct-2018#2483846 >> I don't have anything for you currently [03:01]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-10 16:29 billymg: mircea_popescu: thank you. Mocky: let me know if you need help with anything [03:01]
Mocky: http://mocky.org/Qatar-Day-Zero/ [09:43]
diana_coman: nice pics Mocky ! [09:46]
Mocky: thx [09:46]
diana_coman: was it the time of day/light that made that "my view" picture so sandy-looking? [09:47]
diana_coman: it does look as if it's from some old picture book, lol [09:47]
Mocky: yeah I think that was some late morning glare [09:50]
diana_coman: how's talking to locals going? [09:51]
asciilifeform: !Q later tell mircea_popescu 1-833-867-7282 ( "1-833-TMSRBTC" ) ready, if vendor to be believed ( not tested yet ) . worx in usa strictly, like all 8xx . [09:58]
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [09:58]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'ma gpg you the login to the stats page later today [10:01]
asciilifeform: Mocky: neato [10:02]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what could i possibly want with it ? [10:12]
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: Sent 14 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> 1-833-867-7282 ( 1-833-TMSRBTC ) ready, if vendor to be believed ( not tested yet ) . worx in usa strictly, like all 8xx . [10:12]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it has stats, and, theoretically, shits out wav's when records call [10:13]
mircea_popescu: send it to bimbo, she can publish them then ? [10:13]
mircea_popescu: or is this even something tbf wants ? [10:14]
asciilifeform: lessee what mod6 says [10:14]
asciilifeform: hrm, apparently the 'record' pheature is a '30 day trial', aol-style, and after that is +7orcbux/mo. i'ma switch it off unless somebody reeally wants it [10:15]
asciilifeform: i dun really see a massive win from it, tbh [10:17]
asciilifeform: ( would rather read summary ) [10:18]
Mocky: diana_coman, i've got to find some that speak arabic. so far Indians, Nigerians, Nepalese and Asians all speaking english [10:18]
mircea_popescu: heh [10:18]
Mocky: i can see why so few foreigners learn the language, everything is in both english and arabic, signage, food labels, store receipts, even the money [10:20]
diana_coman: ahaha, so I should have introduced you to some lebanese/kuweitis here, at least they speak arabic! [10:20]
asciilifeform: Mocky: they escaped from brits , iirc, in '70s. so possibly is why [10:21]
mircea_popescu: omg a guard booth was empty! [10:22]
mircea_popescu: britain going to shit! o wait... [10:22]
Mocky: lol [10:22]
mircea_popescu: ahahaha check him out, dude's got srs biker gear on and shit. [10:22]
mircea_popescu: they'd better not fuck with him, these nigerio-nepalese azns. IF they know what's good for 'em. [10:23]
mircea_popescu: http://mocky.org/img/thing1-600.jpg << haymasfuturo!! oooohohohoho epic find. [10:23]
mircea_popescu: what fucking future ?! for what, england ? jesus x. [10:23]
Mocky: the side of that thing has the names of other countries on it... [10:24]
mircea_popescu: aok [10:24]
mircea_popescu: notably absent, the only countries with any actual future. because who'd have told these tards about 'em. [10:25]
mircea_popescu: "It was surreal having such a minimal and distant experience of so many places I’ve only heard about before." << ahaha pretty great line. [10:25]
Mocky: if you look at zoomed in version, nepal, africa, caribbean, so not countries really [10:25]
mircea_popescu: A350 must be wider than 777 << it is. metric. [10:26]
mircea_popescu: nice article! [10:28]
Mocky: thx [10:28]
mircea_popescu: so it turns out one of the greatest impediments wasn't so impending after all, huh. [10:29]
mircea_popescu: funny how this shit works. [10:29]
Mocky: indeed [10:30]
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860625 << lol, it would hurt the Uruguayos so much to learn somewhere else actually pulled off the multilingual thing [11:20]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 14:20 Mocky: i can see why so few foreigners learn the language, everything is in both english and arabic, signage, food labels, store receipts, even the money [11:20]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun recall seeing any multi-anythings in uy ( and i kinda liked it that way ) [11:21]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, Uruguay does the thing where they put English words on everything instead of their own language. [11:21]
BingoBoingo: Hence the Montevideo shopping, the Kiosko CyberInterweb, and the late Pitty Shoes [11:22]
asciilifeform: aah those [11:22]
asciilifeform: i think of'em as 'engrish' (asian term, but applicable) [11:22]
asciilifeform: and hahwat, pitty shoes dead ?! [11:23]
asciilifeform: what a... pitty [11:23]
BingoBoingo: Then there's the all English menu at the Burger King, which is a mindfuck because it can't be used without substituting spanish vowels for the English oness [11:23]
BingoBoingo: Yes, Pitty Shoes is very dead [11:23]
BingoBoingo: Whole bunch of new shoes in old storefronts along Avenida General Rivera now selling abnormally cheap plasticrap advertising "Calidad Brasilera" too [11:26]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the only decent shoes asciilifeform owned in entire life... bought in ro [11:27]
BingoBoingo: But are they suitable for use in Pits? [11:27]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: tested in many a pit. [11:28]
* BingoBoingo is very disappointed that there is a botique named Prussia a few doors down from my building that sells women's clothing when it should be selling men's protective headgear [11:29]
asciilifeform: lol!! [11:30]
mircea_popescu: lmao [11:30]
BingoBoingo: The store recently had to get it's glass front replaced after smashing. I assume robbery attempt? Never seen customers in the store though. [11:31]
BingoBoingo: Then there's all the pop culture kioski names: Kiosko Buffalo Bill, Kiosko Chicago Bulls, Kiosko Tommy... [11:33]
asciilifeform: miamiism maculae imho [11:35]
BingoBoingo: Then there's the grow shops of which "Tu Cultivo" is the only one I can recall off hand that doesn't have Grow in the name. [11:37]
BingoBoingo: SoulMedicine Grow, Juana Grow, Dr. Grow, the list goes on Gro [11:38]
Mocky: with >80% foreigners all speaking english, the Qataris fear becoming ESL. signage is dual language because Arabic is mandated. in 2012 they passed a law mandating universities switch from english to arabic for all degree for all degree programs other than sci/eng/med. in 2016 further law mandating arabic for gov agencies, contracts, schools [11:55]
BingoBoingo: Fighting the good fight against Miami! [11:56]
Mocky: unrelatedly, i saw the craziest thing leaving the air port. there are a lot of indian dudes around doing public works type labor jobs. landscaping, pickup up trash, construction etc. I saw one, and i swear he was mowing the grass with a chain saw, all squatted down. now maybe he was cutting something else, but there was nothing else there! and damn if the that lawn wasn't pristine as a golf course [12:02]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/another-round-of-router-pwning-holes-found-in-mikrotic-routeros/ << Qntra - Another Round Of Router Pwning Holes Found In Mikrotic RouterOS [12:04]
BingoBoingo: Mocky: Now that, they do not do here. [12:04]
mircea_popescu: Mocky thjey do that dumb shit here too [12:29]
mircea_popescu: fucktarded barbarians. [12:29]
BingoBoingo: Here they do entire parks using string trimmers [12:35]
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i recently found that lcd panel made by (defunkt) 'pixelqi co', pq3qi-01 , is still sold by chinese ( i have nfi if clones, or old stock ), ~100 $ ea the thing toggles from 1024x600 colour/backlit into a 3072x600 greyscale reflector thing, worx with various lappies ( sadly not x60, it's a 16:9 ) [13:08]
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. [13:08]
asciilifeform: draws 400mW in reflector mode (~1/5 of what colour panel of that weight class eats) . [13:08]
asciilifeform: pretty clever, imho : they had some electrochemical mechanism for turning the colour filters on subpixels into transparent. [13:10]
asciilifeform: also somewhat unusually, there's a full datashit for the thing ( i.e. could drive with fpga and there's a chinese hdmi/dvi board for it, ~20bux ) [13:12]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/gvC8D << old photo of subj, from before vendor croaked. ( comparison with 'eink' on right hand ) [13:14]
asciilifeform: oh hm, loox like we had thread coupla yrs back, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-15#1503495 [13:15]
a111: Logged on 2016-07-15 21:01 trinque: I researched those this week pixel qi sold to an outfit that seems to be sitting on the patents [13:15]
asciilifeform: trinque seems like they're sold by the crate nao, on lulzbay & elsewhere. [13:16]
asciilifeform: nao if only somebody still made a b&w panel with reasonable res... [13:17]
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell mats http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NaRtE/?raw=true [13:59]
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. [13:59]
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=48 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/08/2018 [14:08]
BingoBoingo: And Local news gets interesting https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/presidente-del-centro-militar-dice-que-hay-condiciones-para-que-militares-vuelvan-al-poder-20181011135944 [14:31]
bvt: hello [14:53]
bvt: decided to add some information to the yesterday's thread on mktemp use in vpatch: [14:53]
bvt: 1. The vpatch which solved the problem for me: vtools_fixes_mktemp_template.vpatch: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3xcAF/?raw=true [14:53]
bvt: vtools_fixes_mktemp_template.vpatch.bvt.sig http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/A5VIC/?raw=true [14:53]
bvt: 2. Ada internally uses mkstemp(3) to generate a random name when empty string is passed as filename to Open procedure. [14:53]
bvt: The code in question is in gcc/ada/adaint.c in function __gnat_tmp_name (char *tmp_filename), http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/cxakJ/?raw=true [14:54]
bvt: There seems to be no useful code to take from GNAT for this problem. [14:54]
bvt: 3. Musl calculates a simple hash over current time, address of variable on stack, and address of template to generate the random characters for mk*temp family of functions: http://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/src/temp/__randname.c#n6 [14:54]
bvt: Apparently those addresses are used as 'poor man's RNG' [14:54]
phf: bvt: i think the conclusion of yesterday's thread was that using mktemp is a bad idea, and that it's better to rewrite temp_file_name to be self contained, i.e. get rid of mktemp pragma and have temp_file_name do its own random string/stat loop [14:56]
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 1 hour and 48 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i recently found that lcd panel made by (defunkt) 'pixelqi co', pq3qi-01 , is still sold by chinese ( i have nfi if clones, or old stock ), ~100 $ ea the thing toggles from 1024x600 colour/backlit into a 3072x600 greyscale reflector thing, worx with various lappies ( sadly not x60, it's a 16:9 ) [14:56]
bvt: I understand this, but still it's better to drop the vpatch, at least in the logs, in case someone else stumbles upon this problem. [14:58]
phf: i like that ada will create a temp file for you and then clean it up on empty string, though that's a bit too magical (the interface, not the behavior) [14:58]
bvt: that was a wtf moment for me, i'm not used to such service from the runtime [15:00]
phf: well, it's also a reason why bug wasn't caught in development. a sequence of wtfs: linux man page says mktemp should be 3 or more X's, so project builds on a non-musl build. meanwhile POSIX mandates there to be exactly 6 X's, so a musl build fails to produce a random string, returning instead a blank one, which is when gnat decides to not only generate a temp file but also do cleanup. [15:03]
bvt: did you use ave1's gnat or the adacore-provided distro? My understanding is that it should work with both, taking 2 different code paths, and fail only with gnat17. [15:06]
phf: i've used a variety, including the two you mentioned. ave1's, adacore 2016 and 2018 on linux and mac [15:09]
phf: bvt: you know you could take a stab at proper temp_file_name :> it'll have to be written anyway, to fix this bug. i suspect by the time someone else runs into this issue, a replacement will already be available. [15:14]
bvt: i will give it a try. i'm still learning ada, will have to take a look at how strings and interfacing with C are done properly. [15:22]
asciilifeform: phf, bvt : i thought of a possible algo for sane tmp file creation that dun need rng or global counter. 1) pick a file name in tmp dir, if none exists, take empty string, as string S 2) produce S' = H(S) , H is hash (e.g. keccak) 3) stat(S') if already exists, take S'' = H(S') and repeat . [15:34]
phf: bvt: this doesn't need much C, it's a loop with a termination condition of not Ada.Directories.Exists(Filename), and the tricky part is the construction of said Filename. it could be a Prefix ("vpatch.") + keccak hash(salt + pid + time + ???). [15:34]
phf: asciilifeform: nah, you want a random seed always, because you're trying to avoid race by producing a least likely collision. the race will always exist between existance check and initial creation [15:36]
asciilifeform: phf: there's no atomic file create-or-die ? [15:36]
bvt: right, Ada.Directories.Exists was the missing piece. [15:36]
* asciilifeform looked, didn't find, assumed that i simply didn't look hard enuff [15:36]
bvt: there is a recent linux O_TMPFILE flag to open(2), but i'm not sure we want to use that [15:37]
phf: asciilifeform: well, temp_file_name makes a temporary _name_, if you're relying on an atomic create, then you need to change the interface, where you try and create a temp file, and then bail. in that case though you don't even need any randomness. just use a counter [15:38]
asciilifeform: phf: counters won't behave well with '9000' parallel processes. [15:38]
bvt: and i'm don't know yet if files created this way can be mv'ed to file system [15:38]
phf: asciilifeform: counters exhibit exactly the same problem as a non-random seed [15:39]
asciilifeform: phf: also can lock a fixed name in /tmp when incrementing counter or whatever wants to be atomic. tho imho it's ugly [15:41]
asciilifeform: i suspect however that any solution that works across generic unixdom (i.e. doesn't marry linux) will appear similarly ugly [15:42]
bvt: perhaps better way would be to create a temporary directory (for which there is atomic create-or-die) at the vpatch start, and place all temporary files there? [15:42]
asciilifeform: possibly [15:43]
asciilifeform: if you have a working rng, all you gotta do is take 256 bits from it, and no need to stat() or anyffing the chance of collision is coupla orders of magnitude smaller than asteroid flattening the machine [15:43]
phf: bvt: as of right now there's only one temporary file at a time during a vpatch run, so you're essentially in the same situation temp file name or temp directory anme [15:57]
phf: asciilifeform: i believe that was the real conclusion of yesterday's conversation: you want easy access to a real rng from any republican process at any time, and that makes a lot of idiotic problems go away [15:58]
phf: but it also seems that before that becomes reality we either have to patch linux kernel or implement a rng daemon or somesuch [15:59]
asciilifeform: phf: if vpatch in particular cannot be made to work 100% reliably on existing kernels, we'll have bootstrapping boojum. [16:00]
asciilifeform: really imho oughta be solvable without exotica. [16:00]
phf: asciilifeform: oh yeah it is, hash a bunch of random stuff, check for collision. that's the pragmatic solution. i'm talking about the take aways [16:01]
asciilifeform: if you can check for collisions atomically, may as well have ordinary counter . [16:02]
asciilifeform: ( and it is my understanding that you can, under all known unixen, simply by locking e.g /tmp/tmsr or whatever fixed path ) [16:02]
phf: you're probably right though, the temp_file_name interface needs to be replaced with open_temp_file [16:02]
bvt: uhm, strace shows me here that the temporary filename changes [16:02]
phf: bvt: that doesn't contradict what i said [16:04]
bvt: yes, i misread [16:04]
phf: tmp file gets created when you have any sort of patching operation, gets cleaned up when you no longer need it. but you could conceivably have it for the duration of the runtime. (except instead of doing file move at the end of a single file patch, you do file copy) [16:05]
phf: asciilifeform: so the posix solution is to call open with O_CREAT | O_EXCL, which will attempt to create but will signal EEXIST if the file already exists. curiously default behavior O_CREAT will simply clobber [16:07]
asciilifeform: phf: seems like oughta work ( aside from boxes where /tmp is on nfs drive, but that's a perversity imho ) [16:10]
bvt: i will have a look at what primitives i need for the implementation today and tomorrow, and will come back here if i get stuck on something. [16:35]
bvt: should have implementation done over weekend [16:36]
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860619 << Call recording is not needed, imho. [19:30]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 14:14 asciilifeform: lessee what mod6 says [19:30]
BingoBoingo: !!up TomServo [21:17]
deedbot: TomServo voiced for 30 minutes. [21:17]
BingoBoingo: Welcome back TomServo [21:17]
mod6: TomServo: This weather is getting ole mod6 down. [21:18]
phf: trinque: i've updated the key, so all you need to do is an import http://btcbase.org/data/wot/phf.asc i'm not going to do a minimization right now [22:45]
trinque: phf: appears to have worked give it a shot [23:05]
hanbot: BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gcCGy/?raw=true [23:09]
phf: !!down [23:17]
phf: aye, thank you [23:18]
trinque: yw [23:27]
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