Forum logs for 09 Nov 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120000 @ 0.00057053 = 68.4636 BTC [+] {4}	[00:02]
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mircea_popescu	PeterL hey listen, can you make a website for the scoopbot bot ? put it under blogs.bitcoin-assets.com liek before ?	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	i think pankkake published the code he was using somewhere	[00:30]
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PeterL	mircea_popescu: sure, it is something I was planning to do soon	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	cool	[00:31]
PeterL	;;rate kakobrekla 2 bitbet, assbot, etc	[00:33]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.	[00:33]
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punkbot	Confirmed bundle 19BXLtDe1FQC1FSVpSpYwG1RXTvL3k5hzW \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/19BXLtDe	[00:35]
PeterL	;;rate danielpbarron 1 https://twitter.com/danielpbarron seems like a nice guy, calls out scammers	[00:36]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user danielpbarron has been recorded.	[00:36]
assbot	Daniel P. Barron (@danielpbarron) on Twitter	[00:36]
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Adlai	"absolved from all allegiance to any entity… is to pay a tax into the coffers of the Bitcoin Foundation"	[01:30]
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kakobrekla	mircea_popescu heres buttcoin hosting https://coinshost.com/en/	[01:45]
asciilifeform	took 20 or so seconds to load	[01:46]
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asciilifeform	not encouraging.	[01:46]
asciilifeform	i don't remember what other people wanted, but i would like a hosting vendor who is in wot.	[01:47]
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kakobrekla	seems like their page is bit broked	[01:48]
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kakobrekla	makes some bad requests	[01:48]
asciilifeform	no wot presence, no symptoms of actually working tech. what's the appeal then ?	[01:48]
kakobrekla	i did not claim appeal	[01:48]
kakobrekla	below it sez >Proudly brought to you by Incloudibly.	[01:50]
kakobrekla	heh.	[01:50]
asciilifeform	'If you don’t like the Bitcoin Foundation, you could start a new one, right? Sure, absolutely. Just like you could start a new river Thames. Have a shovel. Start digging.' << lol!	[01:50]
kakobrekla	only noticed now	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla is it any good ?	[01:50]
kakobrekla	incloudibly ? i think they are the ones that down allow irc bots	[01:51]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform who's the idiot ?	[01:52]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-11-2014#914881	[01:53]
assbot	Logged on 08-11-2014 08:25:40; cazalla: very little news around, read this http://bitcoinmagazine.com/18000/bitcoin-is-teaching-realism-to-libertarians-an-interview-with-old-school-cypherpunk-vinay-gupta/ .. where did i read about gold and problem of keeping it safe before?	[01:53]
mircea_popescu	scams as geological features now, what's next, libertardism as a natural satellite ?	[01:53]
mircea_popescu	oh, gupta. mkay. who asked him anything or w/e.	[01:53]
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mircea_popescu	"absolved from all allegiance to any entity… is to pay a tax into the coffers of the Bitcoin Foundation" << you gotta re-read.	[01:57]
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punkman	suppose everyone in assbot wot signs the declaration. doesn't make too much sense to keep 450 copies of the same document.	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	why not ?	[02:00]
Adlai	what exactly did i miss?	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	disk space and bw increase at 100% a year yo.	[02:00]
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mircea_popescu	Adlai : "absolved from all allegiance to any entity ; if you pay this much no one can ask for more"	[02:01]
punkman	well even if I keep 450 copies, would be nice to detect it and present a special page with the document and a list of signatures	[02:01]
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mircea_popescu	punkbot suppose 200 of those people sign subtly different versions.	[02:02]
punkman	well that's that	[02:02]
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Adlai	mircea_popescu: "is to pay" is a stronger statement than "if you pay, ..."	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	besides you know, they prolly go in different bundles, and in general, it's not the signature that's subordinate to the document, but the other way around	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	Adlai exactly.	[02:04]
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punkman	http://www.wired.com/2014/10/world_passport/	[02:07]
assbot	Hacker Dreams Up Crypto Passport Using the Tech Behind Bitcoin \| WIRED	[02:07]
*	asciilifeform groans	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	punkman https://blockchain.info/address/1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny << seem you got the url, and also check it out, regularly spent!	[02:08]
assbot	Bitcoin Address 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny	[02:08]
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punkman	mircea_popescu: oh good	[02:09]
joecool	oh cool it hooks into blockchain.info now, very nice	[02:09]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916	[02:09]
assbot	Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.	[02:09]
punkman	the bundle txs are unspent, if that's what you meant	[02:09]
asciilifeform	(re: the idiot 'passport' thing)	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	punkman no, they're spent up to about yest ?	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	so someone's on it.	[02:10]
punkman	no that's the balance being spent for each next bundle	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i don;'t think the wired story has anything to do with anything. for one thing... they EXPIRE ?!?!?!	[02:10]
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punkman	punkbot balance	[02:11]
punkbot	punkman: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.01372 BTC (0.05 unconfirmed), enough for 124 more bundles.	[02:11]
Adlai	well, people expire...	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	punkman 14r4VdZFYJnGG52B6w9Th7oKjGXU1pDzKX is spent say	[02:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: from my first impression, it looked like some savage found a piece of our microscope left in the jungle	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	nah, not even that advance.d	[02:11]
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punkman	mircea_popescu: yeah just noticed, that's good	[02:12]
punkman	faucet incentivizes verification	[02:12]
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asciilifeform	check out the shitgnomes in the comments. 'use keybase!'	[02:12]
mircea_popescu	punkman yuppers.	[02:13]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform disqus is disabled here. no comments.	[02:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not missing much	[02:15]
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punkman	I'm guessing nubbins` will be printing the first batch of La Serenissima passports ;)	[02:17]
mircea_popescu	but i mean the passport comes as a temp freenode:#bitcoin-otc:blabla string	[02:19]
punkman	well maybe novelty item then	[02:19]
asciilifeform	'passport', if you must, is pubkey	[02:19]
asciilifeform	the rest, is merely proving that you have it.	[02:20]
mircea_popescu	well wait. identity is pubkey. the rest is the passport.	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	ie, proving you have it.	[02:21]
asciilifeform	aha	[02:21]
asciilifeform	that's a better formulation.	[02:21]
punkman	and signature of the kingdom>	[02:22]
punkman	btw http://www.icao.int/security/mrtd/pages/ICAOPKD.aspx	[02:24]
assbot	ICAO Public Key Directory (PKD)	[02:24]
asciilifeform	^ work of satan	[02:24]
mircea_popescu	y ?	[02:25]
asciilifeform	pki	[02:25]
asciilifeform	and guess who has master key.	[02:25]
mircea_popescu	but i mean ... they just reused the https crapolade.	[02:26]
asciilifeform	aha.	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	it's not work of satan, it;'s work of whoever was the demon of sloth	[02:26]
asciilifeform	god of shit. sterculius.	[02:27]
asciilifeform	or... 'Hie thee to hell for shame, and leave the world, Thou cacodemon! There thy kingdom is.' (richard iii)	[02:28]
asciilifeform	(cacodemon, as seen in 'doom'.)	[02:28]
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Adlai	passports as private key... remind me of some gag where a bitcoiner gets some "paper wallets" for his fiat account and discovers that his keys are printed in cleartext on every page	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	you mean like bank account numbers ?	[02:30]
Adlai	https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/239wv9/so_i_went_to_open_a_checking_account_todayhow/	[02:30]
assbot	So I went to open a checking account today...How these banks have stayed in business this long is beyond reason. : Bitcoin	[02:30]
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mircea_popescu	fun story : romania's dictators had nfi that they will be shot. because srsly, who would shoot obama, and why ?!?!?!	[02:31]
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mircea_popescu	eventually, as things got out of control they ran off in a helicopter	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	the woman, being also a mother, took some money with her for her children.	[02:31]
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mircea_popescu	these consisted of accounts drawn against the national (and only) bank	[02:32]
mircea_popescu	and the passwords were their names.	[02:32]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is in no way surprising.	[02:32]
mircea_popescu	one of those things only ever surprising in retrospect.	[02:33]
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mircea_popescu	punkbot balance	[02:33]
punkbot	mircea_popescu: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.06372 BTC (0.0 unconfirmed), enough for 579 more bundles.	[02:33]
asciilifeform	who would have dared to monkey with the tyrant's bank account when he was on the throne.	[02:34]
asciilifeform	and who gave half a rat's arse after.	[02:34]
mircea_popescu	speaking of which, another fun story :	[02:34]
mircea_popescu	romanian defence minister got sent to russia on business, including to buy some fighter jets.	[02:34]
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mircea_popescu	dictator-wife goes through dictator paperwork, wtf, why do "we" need planes.	[02:35]
mircea_popescu	guy decides not to buy planes anymoar.	[02:35]
mircea_popescu	aparatus desperately calls to moscow, pls to not sign anymore	[02:35]
asciilifeform	elena the 'chemist' ?	[02:35]
mircea_popescu	"too late". yes, her.	[02:35]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[02:35]
mircea_popescu	so it is decided that... fancy this... they'll simply not pay.	[02:36]
asciilifeform	al schwartz had many good elene c. stories	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	ie, ignor the matter altogether.	[02:36]
asciilifeform	the faux 'chemistry' really grated on him	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	at which point ppl are like wtf, this is some sort of a kindergarten act ?! who ever heard of this	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	(summer of 1989)	[02:36]
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mircea_popescu	ftr, grep -v -f is atrociously ineffectual for large files.	[02:38]
mircea_popescu	is this for a good reason or just bad gnutella ?	[02:38]
asciilifeform	aside from the fundamentally bigger set ?	[02:39]
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mircea_popescu	shouldn't grep -v -f (x rand(x)) y rand(y) be a function of x*y ?	[02:40]
mircea_popescu	this looks more like it's x^y or some shit.	[02:40]
Adlai	exceeding various cache sizes?	[02:41]
mircea_popescu	shouldn't it just tree the f ?	[02:41]
Adlai	pure speculation: it caches the list of -f patterns, then goes over the input lines, testing all patterns on each line. this would have a sharp performance drop as the patterns overflow caches.	[02:44]
asciilifeform	the fact that no one here is willing to answer this question by attempting to read the source, says something about the latter.	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform have you LOOKED at grep source ?	[02:45]
*	Adlai is busy worshipping sterculius	[02:45]
asciilifeform	yes.	[02:45]
mircea_popescu	im not paying for a week of graybeard to go into its guts tyvm.	[02:45]
*	asciilifeform said this for a reason.	[02:45]
mircea_popescu	anyway, stercum means shit. sterculius sounds like the god of diarrhea	[02:49]
asciilifeform	;;google sterculius	[02:49]
gribble	Sterquilinus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; STERCULIUS - the Roman God of Manure (Roman mythology): ; Urban Dictionary: Sterculius:	[02:49]
*	asciilifeform forgets where and how	[02:49]
Adlai	indeed, i'd like to deal with at most one turd at a time	[02:50]
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punkman	here's a thought: .sign AQLSTVsF http://paste.com/detached_sig.txt	[03:23]
punkman	it just goes in as a regular deed, but punkbot knows how to verify sig	[03:24]
punkman	(where AQLSTVsF, any deed id)	[03:25]
punkman	and btw, you can even post binary data as deed with :gpg --sign --armor	[03:27]
punkman	could allow larger limit for teh lords	[03:27]
punkman	(32kb currently)	[03:27]
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jurov	http://www.wired.com/2014/11/crypto-ipos/	[03:40]
assbot	Feds Begin Their Crackdown on Bitcoin Stocks \| WIRED	[03:40]
asciilifeform	'...a crackdown that could affect promising Bitcoin 2.0 projects such as Ethereum, MaidSafe, and Counterparty.'	[03:40]
*	asciilifeform groans	[03:40]
asciilifeform	and the verbiage is straight from last week's turds	[03:40]
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punkman	"Keirns was doing what came naturally. He had a business idea, and he created a fund."	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	punkman so basically what, it verifies an alt-sig for the body of a prev deed ?	[03:44]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah, because the scams hadn't already been cracked down upon a year ago, right here.	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	the insanity is strong with these guys.	[03:45]
punkman	mircea_popescu: yeah, I'd sign your raw deed, then send detached sig to bot	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	so how does it publish it ?	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	and where does it put it ?	[03:45]
asciilifeform	(yes, said it before, but) http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916	[03:46]
assbot	Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.	[03:46]
punkman	the detached sig becomes the body of a new deed, included in bundles as usual	[03:46]
asciilifeform	not 'insanity' as such, just very arduously pretending that we don't exist.	[03:46]
mircea_popescu	;;rate wired -1 such horribru coverage from the it kindergarten fishwrapper.	[03:46]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user wired has been recorded.	[03:46]
mircea_popescu	ow shit.	[03:46]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[03:46]
mircea_popescu	;;unrate	[03:47]
gribble	(unrate ) -- Remove your rating for from the database.	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	jesus the wot is packed so thight you can't even throw a rock at the swamp without hitting someone	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	;;unrate wired	[03:47]
gribble	Successfully removed your rating for wired.	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform anyway, "we're ~cracking down~ dontcha know, notwithstanding that we have no authority. this activity without effect could nevertheless which could affect scams we sponsored to try and destroy this thing but it didn't work out".	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	such false->anything->anything->anything genius.	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	punkman so how would a 3rd party verify the contentless signature is anything ?	[03:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00058756 = 11.5749 BTC [+]	[03:52]
punkman	mircea_popescu: I guess referenced deed id is included along with detached sig	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	so then what was the benefit ?	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	srsly, it's good as it is, no need fixing.	[03:54]
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mircea_popescu	the fact that thew system offers a strong guarantee that any deed can be verified in 1 step is valuable.	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	that value needn't be squandered.	[03:54]
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mircea_popescu	"Unfortunately, earnings reported in corporate financial statements are no longer the dominant variable that determines whether there are any real earnings for you, the owner. For only gains in purchasing power represent real earnings on investment. If you (a) forego ten hamburgers to purchase an investment; (b) receive dividends which, after tax, buy two hamburgers; and (c) receive, upon sale of your holdings, aft	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	er-tax proceeds that will buy eight hamburgers, then (d) you have had no real income from your investment, no matter how much it appreciated in dollars. You may feel richer, but you won’t eat richer."	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	guess who.	[04:03]
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decimation	taleb? you?	[04:10]
mircea_popescu	actually, buffett.	[04:10]
mircea_popescu	but in 1980.	[04:10]
decimation	heh. I wonder if he used this as a defense of his anti-dividend policy	[04:13]
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decimation	lol http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/07/codecademy-reskillusa/ << recycle jobless 'workers' to skilled web developers in three months, please please usg you pay?	[04:15]
assbot	Codecademy Teams Up With Online And Offline Coding Schools To Create ReskillUSA \| TechCrunch	[04:15]
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mircea_popescu	well... promising 2.0 businesses such as ethereum could use more css...	[04:16]
decimation	lol	[04:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00057487 = 7.1284 BTC [-]	[04:35]
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pete_dushenski	punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/b83yTQaz	[05:06]
punkbot	pete_dushenski: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.	[05:06]
assbot	-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Title: BITCOIN DECLARATION O - Pastebin.com	[05:06]
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Adlai	!s urbit	[05:17]
assbot	117 results for 'urbit' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=urbit	[05:17]
punkbot	Bundled 1 deed \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17J6NAKN	[05:18]
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decimation	have you used urbit Adlai?	[05:21]
Adlai	nope, just encountering this now	[05:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17169 @ 0.00056483 = 9.6976 BTC [-]	[05:30]
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punkbot	Confirmed bundle 17J6NAKN9aiFNcdesz417hXZqtixLk6wpw \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17J6NAKN	[05:41]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19900 @ 0.00056101 = 11.1641 BTC [-]	[05:58]
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pete_dushenski	http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/09/la-serenissima-sovereign-declares-tithe-3/	[06:11]
assbot	La Serenissima: Sovereign, Declares Tithe³ \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski	[06:11]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16371 @ 0.00056331 = 9.2219 BTC [+]	[06:16]
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RagnarDanneskjol	i like the declaration but fuck the tax bs for gots sake man. I refuse to sign it! not cool pete	[06:22]
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cazalla	RagnarDanneskjol, i don't think anyone said you had to sign it	[06:31]
RagnarDanneskjol	i didnt say they did. just passing an opinion	[06:31]
RagnarDanneskjol	in particular the words it is established and moral requirement are unconscionable	[06:34]
asciilifeform	RagnarDanneskjol: ask mircea_popescu	[06:36]
asciilifeform	he wrote it.	[06:36]
RagnarDanneskjol	ahh ok, I'll take it up with the boss then - thought it originated w/ pete. thanks	[06:36]
asciilifeform	as i understand, he is trying to somehow deal with the little problem of no one standing up to unwedge 0.5.3 block loader.	[06:37]
asciilifeform	none of the folks here seem to have the magic combo of skill, inclination, and free time	[06:37]
RagnarDanneskjol	i get it. there is quite a bit of volunteer support about to flood this channel for this purpose	[06:37]
RagnarDanneskjol	qualified support	[06:37]
asciilifeform	about to?	[06:38]
asciilifeform	what are they waiting for?	[06:38]
decimation	to sign a deed?	[06:38]
RagnarDanneskjol	me	[06:38]
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RagnarDanneskjol	I need to round up the troops and do some crash coursing in wot, etc first	[06:38]
asciilifeform	if the troops are able and willing to follow jurov's turdatron rules (as well as produce quality work) - great news.	[06:39]
RagnarDanneskjol	we'll see. making no promises	[06:39]
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asciilifeform	but unless i am mistaken, mircea_popescu is proceeding from an understanding that a quality reference implementation will require paid experts.	[06:40]
asciilifeform	hence his proclamation of 'tithe'	[06:40]
RagnarDanneskjol	might be that too	[06:40]
RagnarDanneskjol	got it. tithe I can live with. tax not so much	[06:40]
RagnarDanneskjol	can you pls direct me to jurov's requirements?	[06:40]
RagnarDanneskjol	or the rules of contention	[06:41]
asciilifeform	RagnarDanneskjol: http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev	[06:41]
RagnarDanneskjol	oh that ok	[06:41]
asciilifeform	described in 'submitting patches'	[06:41]
RagnarDanneskjol	right got it	[06:41]
asciilifeform	the only thing not mentioned there, is the absolute need for patches to be readable	[06:41]
RagnarDanneskjol	i see	[06:41]
asciilifeform	that is, it must address a specific thing, and patch is not really considered worthwhile until other participants are willing to sign it.	[06:42]
RagnarDanneskjol	should be interesting	[06:42]
asciilifeform	(which others must sign? this question has not been formally answered yet. on account of there not being a real maintainer.)	[06:43]
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asciilifeform	i did the last merge personally, and i think a few folks here are using it	[06:43]
asciilifeform	but i'm not an 'official' anything.	[06:43]
asciilifeform	(other than being the devil who led these folks into the temptation of trying to craft a 'reference implementation.')	[06:43]
RagnarDanneskjol	heh	[06:44]
asciilifeform	i also wrote a few of the simple patches found on jurov's site right now	[06:44]
RagnarDanneskjol	cool	[06:44]
asciilifeform	entirely crud removal (of, e.g., gavin's 'emergency broadcast' crap)	[06:44]
decimation	asciilifeform: I did mange to get it working on openbsd, I think it wedged in a different spot	[06:45]
asciilifeform	decimation: i suspect that if you kill the db and run it again - different yet.	[06:45]
decimation	I had to add a few headers	[06:45]
asciilifeform	decimation: because non-deterministic - once db is corrupt, wedge.	[06:45]
decimation	yeah I was using the 'ports' db, which is 4.6 I think	[06:45]
asciilifeform	when corrups? no one knows	[06:46]
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RagnarDanneskjol	speaking of support, how you been chalbersma - LA treating you ok	[06:54]
chalbersma	Ya been super busy. But it's nice out hear.	[06:54]
chalbersma	What seems to be the support problem you speak of?	[06:54]
RagnarDanneskjol	well, the folks here started a movement to roll back btc core development to a pristine, decrufted state	[06:56]
RagnarDanneskjol	and looking for guys like you with some hands on experience to contribute	[06:56]
chalbersma	Hmm sounds interesting.	[06:56]
RagnarDanneskjol	yea, should be fun	[06:56]
RagnarDanneskjol	getting some links to bring you up to speed	[06:57]
chalbersma	kk	[06:57]
RagnarDanneskjol	http://trilema.com/2014/the-bitcoin-foundation-finally-incorporated/	[06:58]
assbot	The Bitcoin Foundation finally incorporated! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[06:58]
RagnarDanneskjol	http://f9beb4d9.org/	[06:58]
RagnarDanneskjol	http://qntra.net/2014/11/introducing-a-new-bitcoin-foundation/	[06:58]
assbot	Introducing A New Bitcoin Foundation \| Qntra.net	[06:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58120 @ 0.0005603 = 32.5646 BTC [-] {2}	[06:59]
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Adlai	nice domain name byte order :D	[07:05]
chalbersma	Looks interesting.	[07:06]
chalbersma	I assume they're hosting the code somewhere?	[07:08]
RagnarDanneskjol	really only here for now: http://therealbitcoin.org no github or anything yet	[07:10]
RagnarDanneskjol	afaik	[07:10]
decimation	there's nothing like reading a slow signal on an old analog scope	[07:15]
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RagnarDanneskjol	chalbersma - also worth mentioning (what's wrong w/ the 'official' ver): http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html	[07:24]
assbot	A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21	[07:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16350 @ 0.00056317 = 9.2078 BTC [+] {2}	[07:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20124 @ 0.00056367 = 11.3433 BTC [+]	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	in particular the words it is established and moral requirement are unconscionable << why ?	[07:30]
mircea_popescu	as i understand, he is trying to somehow deal with the little problem of no one standing up to unwedge 0.5.3 block loader. << nah, not related.	[07:30]
mircea_popescu	decimation: i suspect that if you kill the db and run it again - different yet. << pretty much how this works yes.	[07:33]
mircea_popescu	nice domain name byte order :D << ben_vulpes idea	[07:34]
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RagnarDanneskjol	mircea_popescu i suppose the notion of taxation in any form makes my brain burn -whether it be through force, state declaration or moral requirement. I am all in favor of the foundation and will likely contribute more than .01% of my earnings to it, but pressing a moral obligation or establishing a rule/precedent for 'taxation' for anyone participating in btc commerce just doesn't make	[07:41]
RagnarDanneskjol	any sense to me -especially until the foundation proves its worth/value	[07:41]
RagnarDanneskjol	*especially without	[07:42]
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mircea_popescu	RagnarDanneskjol well... you familiar with the expression "i gave at the office" ?	[07:51]
RagnarDanneskjol	i dont think so. maybe	[07:52]
mircea_popescu	anyway, arguing against all tax may be a difficult tack for your average business trying to get on with its business rather than become noam chomsky.	[07:54]
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mircea_popescu	manwhile, if they subscribe to this, they don't have to : "i won't pay you any tax, not for any other reason than that ~i already paid~".	[07:54]
mircea_popescu	case closed.	[07:54]
RagnarDanneskjol	ha, if only it were that easy	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	so in this sense, it's politically useful. while i can appreciate the philosophical argument of "epsilon is still fundamentally different from 0", it doesn't carry as much practical importance as all that. for one thing, everyone feels entitled to tax you .1%, including any bank moving your money, and so on and so forth. heck, the miners are taxing about 0.1%	[07:56]
mircea_popescu	making it a moral imperative rather than a legal imperative is also important, precisely because the ancient style of voluntary taxation is actually superior, on all scores, to whatever coercitive crap the socialists are doing today.	[07:57]
RagnarDanneskjol	not a tax - those are fees - paying for a service - one can opt out. point taken on moral vs legal imperative.. its the imperative part i'm still struggling with	[07:58]
mircea_popescu	ever read http://trilema.com/2013/some-basic-discussion-of-charity/ ?	[07:59]
assbot	Some basic discussion of charity pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[07:59]
RagnarDanneskjol	oohh - I believe i missed it.. reading nao	[07:59]
mircea_popescu	main point being that ever since kant, all sorts of imperatives are left around.	[07:59]
RagnarDanneskjol	hmm. i see	[08:00]
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scoopbot	New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/nopdf-a-pdf-to-text-conversion-tool/	[08:23]
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*	assbot gives voice to PeterL	[08:26]
PeterL	mircea_popescu: ^this one's for you :)	[08:26]
*	Adlai tries his hand at the turd polish	[08:27]
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Adlai	https://github.com/adlai/bitcoin/tree/polish asciilifeform RagnarDanneskjol chalbersma and anybody else... fork and reuse	[08:33]
assbot	adlai/bitcoin at polish · GitHub	[08:33]
chalbersma	Thanks!	[08:34]
Adlai	np, and welcome	[08:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18254 @ 0.00056483 = 10.3104 BTC [+]	[08:37]
mircea_popescu	PeterL ah splwendid!	[08:37]
mircea_popescu	!s pdf	[08:37]
assbot	303 results for 'pdf' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=pdf	[08:37]
mircea_popescu	http://btcscoop.com/cgi-bin/convert.py?docurl=https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/download/fedora_content/download/ac:141620/CONTENT/Ammous_columbia_0054D_10412.pdf	[08:38]
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PeterL	I wonder if I should be caching a copy of documents so that it does not have to do the conversion for everybody clicking the link you just posted?	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	the next words out of my mouth were, PeterL pls to cache documents and	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla feature request : when assbot parses a pdf url, can it spit it out with http://btcscoop.com/cgi-bin/convert.py?docurl= prefixed for convenience, while also making a http request so as to start the conversion ?	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	PeterL "HTTP gateway timed out". caching's a must.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	also if you queue incoming requests you can make sure you don't overrun your resources. sorta like how phuctor works	[08:42]
PeterL	hmm, now thinking of best way to do this ...	[08:42]
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kakobrekla	convert on first request then serve from disk	[08:45]
kakobrekla	for converter.	[08:45]
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Adlai	chalbersma (and anybody else who may have looked at the repo), please make sure to pull the non-FF changes that properly attribute commit authors	[08:56]
chalbersma	When I get a chance to do some hacking I'll be sure to.	[08:59]
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ben_vulpes	an interesting approach, Adlai.	[09:56]
ben_vulpes	i'll link in the AM.	[09:56]
ben_vulpes	the thing is best pursued as the outputs of authors, rather than any sort of "blessed" anything by any sort of "foundation".	[09:56]
ben_vulpes	in the same vein as the declaration, the only code that matters is that as published by individuals, and only ever those in the wot.	[09:57]
ben_vulpes	Adlai: do us all a favor, and send the mailing list an email, yeah?	[09:58]
ben_vulpes	describe the repo in question and your branching policy if you have such and the time to elaborate upon it.	[09:58]
mircea_popescu	!up phish	[10:08]
-assbot-	You voiced phish for 30 minutes.	[10:08]
*	assbot gives voice to phish	[10:08]
mircea_popescu	"I lost a shit load in investments. I dont have anymore BTC left."	[10:12]
mircea_popescu	random forum imbecile, november 5th 2014.	[10:12]
mircea_popescu	"investments" they're called. mpoe-pr was totally a smart way to use money huh.	[10:13]
ben_vulpes	who is this: http://futurerant.tumblr.com/	[10:13]
assbot	FutureRant	[10:13]
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mircea_popescu	nobody ?	[10:14]
mircea_popescu	!up zanza	[10:14]
-assbot-	You voiced zanza for 30 minutes.	[10:14]
*	assbot gives voice to zanza	[10:14]
mircea_popescu	"In my last post, I posited a fictional world, Crypton, where no governments1 back up contracts with the threat of force2."	[10:15]
mircea_popescu	"i read some shit from last year's trilema and here's my inept respinning of it!"	[10:15]
zanza	has anyone tried Bit4x?	[10:15]
mircea_popescu	isn;'t that kakobrekla's thing ?	[10:16]
zanza	yeah, he lists this as the IRC channel :o	[10:16]
kakobrekla	yeah	[10:16]
kakobrekla	sup	[10:16]
zanza	hey :D	[10:17]
kakobrekla	hi	[10:17]
zanza	bit4x good site? i am looking to do forex in bitcoin	[10:17]
zanza	it seems to have goot OTC review	[10:17]
zanza	good*	[10:17]
kakobrekla	well the site isnt that good but the service is	[10:18]
zanza	ok :) cool ill send an email and like to setup an cct	[10:18]
kakobrekla	alright	[10:18]
zanza	support@bit4x.com	[10:18]
kakobrekla	should work	[10:18]
zanza	the people on Bitcointalk seem rude	[10:18]
zanza	bitcointalk.com	[10:19]
mircea_popescu	http://altcoinpress.com/2014/11/american-bitcoin-pirate-slammed-for-securities-violations/ << i don't get it. how is the pic related ?	[10:19]
assbot	American Bitcoin Pirate Slammed for Securities Violations	[10:19]
mircea_popescu	zanza they're dumb is the problem. rude, whatever.	[10:19]
zanza	haha	[10:19]
mircea_popescu	"Greg Matthews is an internet pioneer and early domainer. "	[10:19]
*	go1111111 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)	[10:20]
mircea_popescu	seriously ? fucking retard world out there. "little timmy dribbles is an early cerealizer and soup eater"	[10:20]
zanza	Kakobrekla, may I ask, does running the Bit4x site have a lot of risk for you? i mean if prices change	[10:20]
zanza	or is it not that risky if price changes	[10:20]
mircea_popescu	" After selling his ISP company in 2007, he began work as a researcher and advocate for digital currencies. He enjoys working as a freelance writer and is editor in chief at Altcoin Press." totally, 5 year gap in the mongoloid's cv. spent 2007-2013 staring at a brick.	[10:21]
*	go1111111 (~go@162.244.138.51) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:21]
kakobrekla	for my part there is very little risk	[10:21]
zanza	ok, so do you balance the bitcoin storage somehow like I forget the word	[10:21]
zanza	so the price change doesn't effect you	[10:22]
zanza	I assume you use your own money to do the forex	[10:22]
mircea_popescu	you looking for hedge ?	[10:22]
zanza	and keep BTC as reserve	[10:22]
zanza	hedge!!	[10:22]
zanza	ding ding	[10:22]
kakobrekla	everything i do is btc denomiated	[10:22]
zanza	but you can't trade currency with BTC right? like Eur/USD	[10:23]
kakobrekla	you can	[10:23]
zanza	ahh, ok	[10:23]
zanza	got it thanks!	[10:23]
kakobrekla	you cant trade btcusd or btcxxx	[10:23]
zanza	is business ok for you? something you will continue doing in the future?	[10:24]
zanza	hoping it gets bigger	[10:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23988 @ 0.00056483 = 13.5491 BTC [+]	[10:24]
*	mircea_popescu perks ears for this one.	[10:25]
zanza	I was reading Bitcointalk, people are looking for Forex to do with Bitcoin, but the main issue is trust	[10:25]
mircea_popescu	it's rare that noobs manage to ask questions i actually want to hear the answer to.	[10:25]
zanza	LOL	[10:25]
zanza	but the main Forex companies are so regulated by government I don't want to deal with them	[10:26]
zanza	none of them allow you to keep BTC balance I believe	[10:26]
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kakobrekla	yes, more things to come soon	[10:27]
kakobrekla	there will web interface, api, internal signals, maybe mobile	[10:27]
kakobrekla	will be*	[10:27]
mircea_popescu	zanza if it helps you, kakobrekla had ~100 btc investment from F.MPIF for a few months, in his panacea forex fund. he paid back.	[10:27]
mircea_popescu	the details are in the f.mpif reports.	[10:27]
zanza	cool :) I think it is a great idea	[10:27]
zanza	and has very big possibility	[10:28]
zanza	in the future	[10:28]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.00056397 = 3.1864 BTC [-]	[10:30]
*	AndrewJackson (~andrewJ@117.10.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:35]
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*	assbot removes voice from phish	[10:38]
mircea_popescu	a spoonful of dung has very big possibility, in the future.	[10:38]
*	assbot gives voice to kakobreklaa	[10:40]
kakobreklaa	blah, bnc died	[10:40]
Adlai	;;isup www.bit4x.com	[10:40]
gribble	www.bit4x.com is down	[10:40]
kakobreklaa	ah our friend is listening	[10:40]
kakobreklaa	hi!	[10:40]
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kakobreklaa	lucky i update the page once every 6 months or so you can look at internet archive for freshest news	[10:41]
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mircea_popescu	kakobreklaa lol are you being persecuted ?	[10:41]
kakobreklaa	looks like	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m54SmVsQqgc << lmao check out them crazy candians	[10:42]
assbot	Loreena McKennitt - La Serenissima - YouTube	[10:42]
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Adlai	kakobreklaa: so, this works entirely through mt4?	[10:43]
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kakobreklaa	Adlai yea	[10:44]
Adlai	and scripting could be done with eg https://github.com/pczarn/metatrader-multilang ?	[10:44]
assbot	pczarn/metatrader-multilang · GitHub	[10:44]
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kakobreklaa	idk if that works	[10:45]
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kakobreklaa	i have a 0mq that will eat pgp	[10:46]
Adlai	upon further examination it does not seem to work	[10:46]
Adlai	or more precisely... it works, but not as expected by the optimistic plumber	[10:46]
Adlai	please tell us more about your pgpivorous steroid socket	[10:47]
kakobreklaa	not much to it, you send a signcrypted message to socket and get back an answer, just like mpex works	[10:48]
Adlai	dox?	[10:48]
kakobreklaa	not yet	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[10:49]
Adlai	live public coaching via irc sometime next week?	[10:49]
*	Adlai will be away for a while	[10:49]
kakobreklaa	lol whats the rush	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	apparently people wanna use your things	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	much to everyone's surprise o.o	[10:50]
Adlai	amazing feeling innit	[10:50]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[10:50]
Adlai	to assuage that look of terminal shock in your eyes: there's no real rush, i have an endless list of other turds to polish	[10:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00056397 = 5.4705 BTC [-]	[10:52]
kakobreklaa	see i knew it	[10:52]
kakobreklaa	;)	[10:52]
Adlai	but running scalpl on something other than btcfiat has been on the back burner for a long time, in part due to not wanting to touch any glitzy forex gambler-traps	[10:53]
mircea_popescu	omg kako stop sabotaging yourself, you're ready darling! pop that cherry!	[10:53]
Adlai	for all i know, my current parameters could be totally overfit to the quirks of two btcfiat marketplaces, or worse, the whole algorithm could be overfit to bitcoin's crazyness and may be totally worthless elsewhere	[10:54]
Adlai	so this is a fairly important avenue to explore	[10:54]
*	Adlai has to wait at least a week though, his qntry needs him	[10:57]
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cazalla	http://altcoinpress.com/2014/11/american-bitcoin-pirate-slammed-for-securities-violations/ << i don't get it. how is the pic related ? <<< same guy who claimed his friends/family called him satoshi's drunk uncle	[11:07]
assbot	American Bitcoin Pirate Slammed for Securities Violations	[11:07]
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mircea_popescu	so he's basically a drunk ?	[11:08]
Adlai	*drunkle	[11:09]
cazalla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-09-2014#822992	[11:09]
assbot	Logged on 08-09-2014 22:35:52; mircea_popescu: "Thank you for this clarification Mr. Nakamoto. It has been an honor to be labeled by my friends as "Satoshi's Drunk Uncle" and it's a moniker I'll wear proudly until the day I retire from Crypto. The Goldcoin (GLD) developers truly admire your work and strive to continue improving upon its design as a tribute to your unparallelled genius. Your admirer and relative in spirit, MicroGuy	[11:09]
cazalla	that is what i refer to	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	lol drunkle	[11:10]
Adlai	(the author of the altcoinpress article)	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	wait. this dumb schmuck is talking to someone who isn't satoshi about how his fambly jesus christ	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	things just got too redditesque all of a sudden.	[11:11]
cazalla	this might be the first day since qntra started that i did not post.. nothing of interest today	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	"relative in spirit" ?	[11:11]
Adlai	*spirits	[11:12]
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mircea_popescu	incomprehensible the void powering these... things, whatever they are. what was he doing before, talking to a bottle of draino about how he's bald in spirit, just like the genie guy ?	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	http://www.fustar.info/wp-content/images/mr-proper.jpg < whatever that's called.	[11:15]
mircea_popescu	speaking of which,	[11:16]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell nubbins` http://www.fustar.info/2010/05/04/the-9th-circle-film-club-cybertracker-1994/ << this guy wanted a tshirt, in like 2010	[11:16]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[11:16]
assbot	The 9th Circle Film Club: CyberTracker (1994) \| Fustar	[11:16]
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punkman	any objections to punkbot changing name to "notary"?	[11:23]
kakobreklaa	notrly	[11:25]
Adlai	how about 'stuffy', ie 'not airy'	[11:25]
punkman	from that microguy https://www.startjoin.com/gogold	[11:27]
assbot	South African Goldcoin GLD Conference project on StartJOIN	[11:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.0005609 = 18.678 BTC [-] {2}	[11:27]
cazalla	punkman, he drinks fosters in his youtube videos and is under the impression that makes him an honorary australia	[11:32]
cazalla	australian* even	[11:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.00056039 = 9.0503 BTC [-]	[11:35]
cazalla	http://youtu.be/Q3wxinuADjI?t=2m20s	[11:36]
assbot	South African Goldcoin (GLD) Conference - YouTube	[11:36]
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Adlai	gribble \| Error: Username already registered. Try a different username. << fucker	[11:36]
Adlai	help echangekey	[11:37]
punkman	my favourite australian beverage: http://www.kellysdistributors.net.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_231.jpg	[11:37]
cazalla	punkman, prefer the gingerbeer and sarsparilla	[11:38]
punkman	yeah the gingerbeer wasn't bad either	[11:38]
punkman	I can't get a decent gingerbeer around here, been considering brewing my own	[11:39]
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Adlai	how do i add a gpg identity to my gribble account? i'm already registered with a bitcoin address, and gribble responds to eregister and echangekey with "Error: Username already registered. Try a different username."	[11:39]
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punkman	adlai, echangekey should work I think, what error does it give you?	[11:42]
Adlai	Adlai \| oh, a better question would be "in which keyserver does gribble look"	[11:43]
punkman	sks and mit	[11:43]
Adlai	punkman: ugh, it's sending me an encrypted otp, but responds to eauth with "Error: You have not registered a GPG key. Try using bcauth instead, or register a GPG key first."	[11:46]
punkman	auth with bc, then changekey?	[11:46]
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Adlai	;;ident adlai	[11:47]
gribble	Nick 'adlai', with hostmask 'Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai', is identified as user 'Adlai', with GPG key id None, key fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj	[11:47]
Adlai	;;ident adlai	[11:49]
gribble	Nick 'adlai', with hostmask 'Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai', is identified as user 'Adlai', with GPG key id 4D88596A7CDA03F9, key fingerprint FCBC64EFDF1D6C1E4E964AEE4D88596A7CDA03F9, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj	[11:49]
Adlai	that took way too fucking long and is just as [in]secure as using a privkey >_<	[11:50]
punkman	how so?	[11:51]
Adlai	they're both the same overall protocol, just a serialization formats and signature algorithms	[11:52]
Adlai	s/ a /different/	[11:52]
punkman	well whaddayawant, second factor via SMS?	[11:54]
Adlai	ben_vulpes: i'm not seeing it in the mailing list yet, and i have to leave. hope this cuts it: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pCFcsbrW	[11:57]
punkman	Adlai, gotta wait for key to reach jurov	[11:57]
*	Adlai waits on the go	[11:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32051 @ 0.00056006 = 17.9505 BTC [-] {3}	[11:59]
cazalla	punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/QRgj8LL0	[12:07]
punkbot	cazalla: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.	[12:07]
assbot	-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Title: BITCOIN DECLARATION O - Pastebin.com	[12:07]
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punkbot	Bundled 1 deed \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17QDikg3	[12:18]
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punkbot	Confirmed bundle 17QDikg3DHHNPnbq43ScYq17nMsN1G4XSo \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17QDikg3	[12:28]
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punkbot	[trust-update] added: adlai	[12:30]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00055845 = 8.293 BTC [-]	[12:39]
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jurov	puknman what key?	[13:04]
jurov	*punkman	[13:05]
punkman	adlai tried posting to mail list, but you don't have his key yet	[13:06]
jurov	mhm	[13:08]
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PinkPosixPXE	looks like he got authed	[13:19]
PinkPosixPXE	;;gpg info adlai	[13:19]
gribble	User 'Adlai', with keyid 4D88596A7CDA03F9, fingerprint FCBC64EFDF1D6C1E4E964AEE4D88596A7CDA03F9, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj, registered on Sat Oct 6 00:55:28 2012, last authed on Sun Nov 9 04:47:12 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=Adlai . Currently authenticated from hostmask Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai .	[13:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00055845 = 6.478 BTC [-]	[13:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.00056218 = 15.3475 BTC [+]	[13:24]
jurov	;;later tell Adlai you're in	[13:34]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[13:34]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38606 @ 0.00056347 = 21.7533 BTC [+]	[15:02]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24568 @ 0.00056347 = 13.8433 BTC [+]	[15:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00056629 = 6.8521 BTC [+]	[16:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14937 @ 0.00056469 = 8.4348 BTC [-] {2}	[16:37]
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mod6	.deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=N4G424fA	[17:32]
punkbot	mod6: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.	[17:32]
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punkbot	Confirmed bundle 1Kd3FxzjPcjGW2icEneEEZgBgX7r37jS1S \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1Kd3Fxzj	[17:47]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> gotta sign, so we 'all hang together or separately' (as, i think, were the words of the americans.) << As true today as it was for Benjamin Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence in 1776	[17:48]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00056629 = 8.0413 BTC [+]	[17:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.00056448 = 7.3665 BTC [-]	[18:02]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00056448 = 2.3144 BTC [-]	[18:28]
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asciilifeform	http://cryptome.org/2014/11/darknet-sweep.pdf	[18:38]
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asciilifeform	^ http://pastebin.com/AAT1ZWq5	[18:38]
assbot	Darknet Sweep Casts Doubt on Tor Tor Will Be Defeated Again, and Again, and Ag - Pastebin.com	[18:38]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[18:42]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla, mircea_popescu, others - re: 'nopdf' - i actually used to own 'nopdf.com' and planned to put a similar widget there. (2009-ish?)	[18:43]
asciilifeform	even included the caching thing	[18:43]
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asciilifeform	but then realized that it would be mostly useless (in those days, almost everything i ever saw in 'pdf' belonged in that or similar format - technical documents heavy on graphics)	[18:44]
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mircea_popescu	well, you gotta remember, a thing made is always a platform for further things.	[18:45]
asciilifeform	i did write a gizmo that outputs graphical render for the pages, but realized that the bandwidth and disk cache costs would break my back, and then let the domain go to the vultures.	[18:45]
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asciilifeform	the interesting thing is the 'psychiatric' reason for the pestilential spread of pdf for text.	[18:48]
asciilifeform	it's essentially the same as the reason 'flash' exists.	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	the reason for it is contained in the declaration's last paragraphs.	[18:49]
mircea_popescu	governments have actual money to waste, and they do on hiring idiots.	[18:49]
asciilifeform	actually it's much simpler	[18:49]
mircea_popescu	then those idiots become a group large enough to drive fashions.	[18:49]
mircea_popescu	keeping idiots poor and powerless is the only sound purpose of government.	[18:49]
asciilifeform	plenty of people who aren't the least bit idiotic or government-affiliated want to package a document and have it appear exactly the same on the other end of the wire.	[18:50]
asciilifeform	no demented font substitutions, no dysfunctional selective execution of 'stylesheet' crud, etc.	[18:51]
asciilifeform	actual same picture.	[18:51]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform and why do they want this ?	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	oh, wait, because the audience is demented and can't be trusted ?	[18:51]
asciilifeform	what observables would be different if the audience were not demented, and could be trusted?	[18:52]
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mircea_popescu	you pump out the text, they figure out how to display it ?	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	you know, like... usenet ?!	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	nobody perceived a need for pdf back before sept 1993 did they ?	[18:53]
asciilifeform	actually	[18:53]
asciilifeform	postscript (essentially the guts of pdf) existed.	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[18:53]
asciilifeform	and heavily used, by academics	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	and it was used to ? wait for it!	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	to talk to motherfucking printers	[18:54]
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mircea_popescu	which were demented at the time.	[18:54]
asciilifeform	it's still state of the art in driving printer.	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	i tell you. fixed-form is an instrument for talking with the braindamaged.	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	well yes, because printers are still by and large about as smart as a public servant.	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	smart isn't the world. about as sane.	[18:54]
asciilifeform	i like manuals, academic papers, etc. in dead tree.	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[18:54]
asciilifeform	and reflowable text sent to printer, looks like piss.	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	it wouldn't have to.	[18:55]
asciilifeform	the only solution to above is to essentially do the typesetter's job and latexize it	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	you know, while this may well be a pn complete problem in the general case,	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	that general case is actually chtulhu speaking	[18:56]
asciilifeform	i question that it even makes sense to ask for smart reflow independent of page size and shape	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, the problem is not nearly as hard as all that.	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	dude. i question it even makes sense to have a good programming language right back at ya!	[18:56]
asciilifeform	tell that to the latex folks, they would love to know the elixir.	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	it ALWAYS makes sense to be smart.	[18:56]
asciilifeform	incidentally, they have quite a bit of clever automatics re: reflow	[18:57]
asciilifeform	but notice humans are still involved in typesetting.	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[18:57]
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mircea_popescu	fucking fidonet didn't need no stinking pdf.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	and you know what ? it allowed asciiart!	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	how the fuck can you do that w/o adobe o noes!	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	none of the fucking lines allign! save us microsoft!	[19:00]
chetty	adobe is one of the pillars of evil	[19:01]
asciilifeform	aha i'll wait for somebody to asciiart my old soviet magazine scans, yes.	[19:01]
asciilifeform	basic problem here: if there were ten million idiots swinging hammers at strangers in the city streets, it does not thereby follow that carpenters ought to get by without hammers.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	i am not proposing to remove the carpenter's hammers.	[19:02]
chetty	adobe reps were very adept at sabatoge back in the w3c days	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	fwiw, asylum, which i typeset myself, was printed as a pdf. the house ran a large web press, did my run in like three hours.	[19:03]
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asciilifeform	also must appreciate how much hand-driven 'typesetting' (e.g., using linebreaks and editing around known fixed row/column viewers such as the 80x25 term) took place in the 'golden age' of fido et al	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	a man is not required to inherit his father's warts.	[19:27]
asciilifeform	except those were vital organs, not warts	[19:27]
asciilifeform	fact is, i don't want to read code page-broken in random places.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	fixed row/column viewers ? how.	[19:27]
asciilifeform	well, elementary case of msdos text mode.	[19:28]
asciilifeform	plenty of things were written to fit in its 'screen-full'	[19:29]
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*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[19:30]
asciilifeform	but more relevant to printers. fact is, reading anything technical that wasn't formatted for a particular page shape, and suffer idiot breaks.	[19:30]
mircea_popescu	these don't sound so much like vital organs.	[19:30]
*	assbot gives voice to JorgePasada	[19:30]
JorgePasada	Greetings	[19:30]
asciilifeform	do you even use printers.	[19:31]
ben_vulpes	lookie lookie	[19:31]
pete_dushenski	http://rt.com/news/203583-drone-boning-porn-nsfw/	[19:31]
JorgePasada	Hey Ben :-)	[19:31]
JorgePasada	Long time no see	[19:31]
*	pete_dushenski wonders why mod6 and asciilifeform signed the tithe3 with SHA1...	[19:32]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: ancient key	[19:32]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform so ancient that you can't setpref to SHA512?	[19:32]
*	asciilifeform probably ought to	[19:33]
asciilifeform	problem is, let's say the devil has sha1 collision finder, and decides to apply to my case	[19:34]
asciilifeform	since my key flag bits permit sha1, he can still, say, sign into gribble as me.	[19:34]
asciilifeform	until i retire this key.	[19:34]
mod6	pete_dushenski: ah, yah, overlooked the flag grumble	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah, and suppose you see a message from me using sha1 when you know i use sha512.	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	what now ?	[19:35]
mircea_popescu	canaries are canaries yeh ?	[19:35]
asciilifeform	aha.	[19:35]
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mircea_popescu	gotta understand that any big bad only exists as a work of fiction, otherwise is simply a collection of men. gotta give those men ways out, so that "mysterious" and "inexplicable" things happen	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	big bad is dumb as rocks, on its own. has nfi what all the things mean.	[19:36]
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*	asciilifeform thinks back to various stories of captive soldiers getting messages out through various clever means.	[19:37]
pete_dushenski	https://www.debian-administration.org/users/dkg/weblog/48 << how to, just on the very-off-chance	[19:37]
assbot	Weblog for dkg - HOWTO prep for migration off of SHA-1 in OpenPGP	[19:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9554 @ 0.00056563 = 5.404 BTC [+]	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	easiest thing in the world is a mistake. the fucking cold war was won not by any other means than... mistakes.	[19:37]
pete_dushenski	the cold war was won?	[19:38]
mircea_popescu	multiple times.	[19:38]
*	pete_dushenski listening	[19:38]
mod6	well, i guess there isn't anything I can do now, other than sign it again with 512 ://	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	at some point in the cold war, the united states president was a totally inept ninkompoop, principally remembered for having taken his shoes off in the un council. this guy had an oversized military and inept economic policies that stalled the country. his fellow americans didn't think much of him, kept making little mistakes.	[19:39]
mircea_popescu	these piled up, eventually the us collapsed of it, took them twenty years to regroup, but meanwhile lost alaska and california.	[19:40]
JorgePasada	Anyone going to CCC this year? I'm thinking about making the trip	[19:40]
mircea_popescu	course then russia was trying to join california in the warsaw pact, and a bunch of topless aggitator chicks kept fucking the pot,	[19:40]
mircea_popescu	so in the end it's unclear.	[19:40]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	shush you :)	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	appreciate my "in the end it's unclear" instead. it's damned good :D	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	mod6 it's no big deal, just change your pref and forget about it.	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	JorgePasada which is ccc again ?	[19:42]
mod6	nod ok, thanks mp	[19:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00056629 = 1.6989 BTC [+]	[19:42]
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JorgePasada	https://twitter.com/31c3	[19:44]
assbot	CCC - 31c3 (@31c3) on Twitter	[19:44]
JorgePasada	Technically 31c3 is the confrerence I guess	[19:44]
JorgePasada	Chaos Computer Club (Conference)	[19:45]
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mircea_popescu	ah, hamburg is a nice town	[19:48]
asciilifeform	punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/kwr11bEU	[19:48]
punkbot	asciilifeform: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.	[19:48]
assbot	-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Title: BITCOIN DECLARATION O - Pastebin.com	[19:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4382 @ 0.00056629 = 2.4815 BTC [+]	[19:49]
pete_dushenski	noob question about pgp keys: is there any sense in airgapping for signing only?	[19:49]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: the point of airgapping is to defend the key. which you are using when you sign, yes	[19:50]
pete_dushenski	right	[19:50]
ben_vulpes	you can also pull your master key out of the keyring and stash it safely somewhere, pete_dushenski	[19:50]
pete_dushenski	so i guess the question is whether keeping a key online for gribble authing is that much of a risk	[19:51]
asciilifeform	the only person who can correctly determine your favourite level of risk - is you	[19:52]
pete_dushenski	myea	[19:52]
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pete_dushenski	i suppose you could use a subkey for gribble and keep the master airgapped	[19:53]
asciilifeform	does wot mechanism automatically respect superceding keys?	[19:54]
asciilifeform	i still don't know this.	[19:54]
asciilifeform	personally, i have always used only the most basic and essential subset of pgp std. functionality.	[19:54]
asciilifeform	and wot isn't even the only gizmo here that uses keys	[19:55]
asciilifeform	jurov's turdatron, another	[19:55]
asciilifeform	and the ultimate champ in cementing ancient keys in place, or so i'm told, mircea_popescu's mpex	[19:55]
asciilifeform	where you gotta resubscribe if want to swap key.	[19:55]
*	assbot gives voice to PeterL	[19:56]
PeterL	asciilifeform: re flash: my daughter's school uses some online math games, requires flash. I tried to log her in, can't because most recent flash is no longer supporting linux or pre-'08 macOS	[19:57]
asciilifeform	PeterL: it is worth thinking about why 'flash' remains a thing.	[19:57]
JorgePasada	PeterL: You running something with a PowerPC chip?	[19:58]
pete_dushenski	not like jobs didn't try to kill it	[19:58]
PeterL	just another way to introduce more dependencies	[19:58]
mircea_popescu	personally, i have always used only the most basic and essential subset of pgp std. functionality. <<	[19:58]
PeterL	JorgePasada: no, it is an intel	[19:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: re: why cement?	[19:59]
JorgePasada	PeterL: Couldn't you just download a custom browser package that has a version of flash bundled with it then?	[19:59]
punkbot	Bundled 1 deed \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1DDnMWek	[19:59]
PeterL	but old enough that it can't upgrade to newer versions of MacOS	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no, re i do the same.	[19:59]
asciilifeform	aha	[19:59]
asciilifeform	i suspect most folks here do this.	[19:59]
PeterL	JorgePasada: do they have such things?	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	PeterL yeah, flash running browsers have been a ubuntu specialty.	[20:00]
PeterL	I don't feel like I need flash enough to get a whole new browser	[20:00]
JorgePasada	PeterL: I believe that all versions of chrome do this automatically	[20:00]
PeterL	Oh, my computer can't get chrome, in VM Ubuntu the chrome says it can't get the latest flash	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	ahahaha	[20:01]
asciilifeform	http://philip.greenspun.com/research/internet-haters << how we ended up with 'flash' and similar crap.	[20:01]
assbot	Internet Haters -- HTML Chapter	[20:01]
PeterL	I might just break down and get a newer computer sometime	[20:01]
asciilifeform	'flash' survives precisely because it is a mostly opaque binary format, which browsers can't 'spread democracy to'	[20:02]
PeterL	sort of the complete opposite of open source?	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	that';s a good point.	[20:02]
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mircea_popescu	PeterL well, yes. "a man in charge" situation.	[20:03]
asciilifeform	(see also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=309 )	[20:03]
assbot	Loper OS » No Formats, no Format Wars.	[20:03]
mircea_popescu	as stupid as the man in charge can be, the benefits often outpace the damage. this was discussed here re stalin	[20:03]
asciilifeform	aha.	[20:03]
asciilifeform	this is why flash survives in spite of being written by - what appears to be downs-syndrome cases	[20:03]
asciilifeform	(or simply inept players of 'underhanded c contest')	[20:03]
asciilifeform	www in the html-js-and-extension-crud sense is a case of standards 'so open their brains fall out'	[20:04]
asciilifeform	a whole gang of vultures 'embraced and extended' them, including but not limited to microshit	[20:04]
asciilifeform	everything i just said re: flash, applies also to 'pdf'	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	this is, at least in my view, why personal sovereignity is not avoidable on the mid or long term.	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	the open/closed software has no stable solution otherwise.	[20:05]
asciilifeform	gotta keep democrashit out.	[20:05]
asciilifeform	or dissolve in it.	[20:05]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, living things seem a little more advanced than our computers on this exact path	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	they use exaclty a biological implementation of personal sovereignity to build open but not too open systems that survive well in the world.	[20:06]
asciilifeform	a greybeard once described the modern computer as 'apartment with plumbing but no sewer connection'	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	lol	[20:07]
asciilifeform	it did not make sense in my mind at the time.	[20:07]
asciilifeform	the above point re: flash and pdf, also applies to game machines.	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, for the theoretically minded : would you say the b-a software paradigm is open source or closed source ?	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	because it technically satisfies both definitions.	[20:08]
asciilifeform	one reason why folks still write programs for toys such as 'super nintendo' - despite the need to DIY roms	[20:08]
asciilifeform	because the machine is standard. as in, entirely. and entirely stateless except for your rom.	[20:08]
asciilifeform	hence definable. and works, like mathematics, rather than like sand castle built in a cesspit.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	yeah hacking the supernintendo is actually still part of training hackers afaik.	[20:09]
punkbot	Confirmed bundle 1DDnMWekucn2XDeCHpfgz5MvM5Y6VYiVp2 \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1DDnMWek	[20:09]
PeterL	we have a software paradigm now?	[20:09]
asciilifeform	b-a software paradigm?	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform PeterL it's developing software, is it not ?	[20:09]
PeterL	could you specify our paradigm?	[20:10]
asciilifeform	from what i can personally see, it's heavy on the duct tape	[20:10]
asciilifeform	and likely to suffer the fate of the first deedbot at some point, possibly repeatedly	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	PeterL well, it should be obvious in the logs :D!!!	[20:10]
PeterL	so far, to me, it looks open source	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	PeterL if you're in the wot.	[20:10]
PeterL	but anybody can read it	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	suppose ninjashogun wants to push a patch for deedbot. or, whatever, the cardano.	[20:11]
PeterL	and anybody can get into the WoT	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	yes, anyone can read it. i went to a swinger's club yest, anyone could look at my bitches.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	and i did happen to have the finest bitches in the place, buncha losers.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	but what's in a look ?	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	and no, emphatically NOT anyone can get in the wot.	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	that safadean fellow can get in the wot. but otherwise, most people can try.	[20:12]
PeterL	well, with code, they could fork it and make their own version	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	sure, they could.	[20:12]
asciilifeform	and they can grow own gurlz	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	i hear gavin is planning to fork bitcoin and make his own version.	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[20:12]
PeterL	so therefore it is open for anybody to take	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[20:13]
asciilifeform	one possible argument here is that the complete system is not in the code.	[20:13]
JorgePasada	PeterL: Anyone can fork it, not anyone can do the backlog of proof of work to 'take' things though.	[20:13]
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mircea_popescu	PeterL huns are open for anyone to take, and kill themselves with.	[20:13]
PeterL	lol	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	code works slowly, you spend a life and in the end it's all a waste.	[20:13]
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JorgePasada	asciilifeform: exactly, it's in the network of people & the chain of transactions and everything that's brought us to this point.	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform this is necessarily so. because godel is a cult.	[20:14]
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mircea_popescu	PeterL look at the discussion about al schwartz's failed measurements.	[20:14]
asciilifeform	^^	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	he ~could~ have made his own chemistry.	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	except ars longa cocka smalla.	[20:14]
*	mircea_popescu re-reads, notices he misspelled guns as huns, wonders why the fuck has he not realised this before.	[20:15]
PeterL	would you consider chemistry literature open or closed? I guess it is similar idea, to put stuff in it has to be vetted by experts	[20:15]
scoopbot	New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/pigfarmin/	[20:16]
asciilifeform	PeterL: what is the point of shoehorning things into these weird categories?	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	^ that's r18 btw, don't read among small children.	[20:16]
PeterL	dunno, mircea_popescu asked about open/closed source	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	PeterL the reason i said "for the theoretically minded" was exactly this tongue in cheek point. "take your broken models and try make sense of the world whydontcha!"	[20:16]
PeterL	but I want everything to fit in the models I already have !!1!	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	you'd make a great nine year old	[20:18]
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pete_dushenski	https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/531243553415233536	[20:18]
assbot	Just like http://t.co/VhF3XQ1Tiq RT /nntaleb: Hard to conceive, but /hashtag/ISIS?src=hash is the product of the internet.	[20:18]
pete_dushenski	@pete_dushenski Just like http://bitcoin-assets.com RT @nntaleb: Hard to conceive, but #ISIS is the product of the internet.	[20:19]
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assbot	#bitcoin-assets \| You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship.	[20:19]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: pigfarmin' << it's like my childhood favorite 'alt.tasteless' newsgroup lives again!	[20:19]
*	asciilifeform takes off hat	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	lol	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	anyway, re the entire extension and so forth : everything that works on the internet and in the world works on "our" principles.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck ever read whatever software the dns letters run ? who ever wrote a patch for it ?	[20:20]
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asciilifeform	this is more or less same as the (very true) observation that buildings which stand up, whether in england or in best-korea, are designed on same basic principles.	[20:21]
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mircea_popescu	right.	[20:21]
pete_dushenski	which is why they invented hammurabi's code	[20:21]
pete_dushenski	the architect knows more than the inspector ever could	[20:21]
pete_dushenski	building fails, dead architect	[20:22]
ben_vulpes	"they"?	[20:22]
asciilifeform	!b 4	[20:22]
assbot	Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1GN8SYD.txt )	[20:22]
pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes god? babylonians? what difference does it make ;)	[20:23]
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pete_dushenski	the concept of skin in the game is nothing new	[20:23]
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JorgePasada	pete_dushenski: Yeah, we just have a lot of half-assed implimentations of it in modern society.	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	to "foster creativity"	[20:30]
JorgePasada	Bitcoin is a whole-assed implementation of skin in the game...	[20:30]
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JorgePasada	or an assholes implementation, forget which.	[20:30]
pete_dushenski	lol	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	rapist's.	[20:30]
pete_dushenski	anyways i'm off. have a great afternoon!	[20:31]
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mircea_popescu	i believe the proper femsociety word for one who does not care about stupid shit is rapist.	[20:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33054 @ 0.00056629 = 18.7181 BTC [+]	[20:31]
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mircea_popescu	"The result? A formatting language too wimpy even for a novel." <<< this is pure nonsense. i had my novel on the web just fine in plain html.	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	and speaking of which! http://www.amazon.com/Asylum-The-Novel-Chet/dp/B000ODPCKQ holy shit aftermarket.	[20:37]
assbot	Asylum: The Novel: Chet, Zeno: Amazon.com: Books	[20:37]
chetty	hahahahaha	[20:37]
*	asciilifeform bought	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	chetty can you believe people still buy your stuff a decade later ?	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	i mean... that's like britney spears level.	[20:39]
chetty	weird	[20:39]
chetty	now I wonder how many copies of that are floating about	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it was a fun thing to make, that. i think i still have the publisher responses somewhere, "omg you write the greatest letters and whoa so sorry i can't publish this"	[20:40]
asciilifeform	http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3239316488198320@naggum.no.html << obligatory naggum on formatting	[20:43]
assbot	Re: The Next Generation of Lisp Programmers - Naggum cll archive	[20:43]
chetty	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827116/Kissing-bug-disease-infected-300-000-people-don-t-know-parasite-referred-new-AIDS.html	[20:43]
assbot	'Kissing bug' disease infected OVER 300,000 people in the US \| Daily Mail Online	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2009/lectia-de-humor/ speaking of mono	[20:44]
assbot	Lectia de humor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[20:44]
chetty	this isnt mono, its a parasite from central america	[20:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00056643 = 5.9758 BTC [+] {2}	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	o a new one ?!	[20:46]
chetty	nah, just new to the us, because of all the immigration	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	ah chagas. heh.	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	chetty ultimate disease of poverty.	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	i guess after all the tb and bedbug outbreaks in the best socialist california, twas unavoidable.	[20:47]
asciilifeform	all the weird diseases of the tropics, necrotizing fasciitis, etc., will find a welcoming home in usa.	[20:48]
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asciilifeform	buruli ulcer.	[20:48]
mircea_popescu	what's that burning water worm called ?	[20:49]
asciilifeform	you name it, there's a welcoming climate here somewhere for it.	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	;;google dracunculus medinensis.	[20:50]
gribble	Dracunculus medinensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; CDC - Guinea Worm Disease - Biology: ; CDC - Guinea Worm:	[20:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00056641 = 20.2775 BTC [-] {2}	[20:53]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, speaking of leprosy, that thing is a wonder to behold.	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	it's basically a normal bacterium genome that was completely mushed to bits, barely a third of it still works.	[20:55]
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mircea_popescu	yet the thing still survived to present day. makes stuff like the www look likely to live on.	[20:55]
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mircea_popescu	"Professional graphic artists generally produce Web sites on Macintoshes. They slave over the images until the mid-tones look just right, mid-tones that will be mapped almost to black on a typical Sun workstation or PC. The solution to this problem is trivial: a gamma= field in the IMG HTML tag."	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	holy shit bad idea omfg.	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	giving idiot "web designers" a gamma= is like giving idiot web designers autoplay video with a volume=.	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	worst idea ever, greenspun should be shot.	[21:03]
asciilifeform	gamma-whateverthefuck on uncalibrated displays that one has never seen with own eyes...	[21:04]
asciilifeform	very special, yes.	[21:04]
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*	asciilifeform was recently issued a $maxint laptop and was surprised to discover a built-in spectrometer.	[21:05]
asciilifeform	http://imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/6/5/6539_44_lenovo_thinkpad_w540_mobile_workstation_laptop_review.jpg << that one	[21:05]
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asciilifeform	haven't tried it, winblows-only it seems	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	lmao	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	dude.... spend the time to put a (was it clock driven ?) spectrometer in a laptop	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	run it on windows.	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	"If you wrote @bold{foo} instead of foo, you would not even /want/ to say @bold{foo @italic{bar} zot} if you expected to get foo in bold, zot in italic, and bar in both." <<< wait, wut ?	[21:07]
asciilifeform	there's a reverse-engineered driver for it, somewhere. can't be bothered.	[21:07]
mircea_popescu	dafuck would i want to say, @b{foo}@bi	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	{bar} ?	[21:08]
asciilifeform	the verbose monstrosities of **ml-series were justified by the notion that a) no one will ever be forced to write them by hand b) no one will ever be forced to read them with naked eyes	[21:10]
asciilifeform	both turned out to be crocks of shit	[21:10]
asciilifeform	and the basic premise was also a crock of shit (if no naked eyes nor naked hands, why not a compact binary format?)	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	no but wait, my question is, if not {[()]} then what, ()[()]() etc ?	[21:10]
asciilifeform	he was arguing, in the end, for s-expressions.	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	in the end. and its a great point. but before he gets there he steps in it.	[21:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00056563 = 5.4018 BTC [-]	[21:12]
*	asciilifeform off to see some exotic cats. raises a glass to the ghost of moiety.	[21:12]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30983 @ 0.00056448 = 17.4893 BTC [-]	[21:30]
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mod6	.deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jv7pPT8p	[21:33]
punkbot	mod6: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.	[21:33]
mod6	^ with the 512 for good measure	[21:33]
mod6	mp also, thx for the tip about "personal-digest-preferences"	[21:34]
mod6	so has anyone else noticed that the makefile doesn't provide a way to build /without/ debug flags? lol	[21:38]
mod6	you know, incase you'd like to have a binary that isn't bloated with debug symbols?	[21:38]
mod6	anyway, there is a bunch of stuff obv. just another thing for clean up at some point.	[21:39]
punkman	re: sha1 and gpg settings, this is useful https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/blob/master/saneprefs/gpg.conf	[21:42]
assbot	cooperpair/gpg.conf at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub	[21:43]
punkman	repository also has example of colliding keyids	[21:44]
punkbot	Bundled 1 deed \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17gPmTTu	[21:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2283 @ 0.00056656 = 1.2935 BTC [+]	[21:46]
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mircea_popescu	mod6 yeah, and i dunno why that is.	[22:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.00056662 = 9.8025 BTC [+]	[22:02]
mircea_popescu	punkman: any objections to punkbot changing name to "notary"? << i like it.	[22:04]
mod6	ah, yeah +1	[22:06]
punkbot	Confirmed bundle 17gPmTTuoDRYZXAAHgEu1NZHQwMYeRUoHC \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/17gPmTTu	[22:06]
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punkbot	jurov: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.	[22:12]
ben_vulpes	lol did we all overlook the typo in the last paragraph?	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	cazalla: australian* even << really seems that guy is trying superhard to belong ?	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes i was curiously waiting for the first one to notice.	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	i guess you get the fox award.	[22:15]
ben_vulpes	'twas mod6 actually	[22:15]
*	ben_vulpes has a feeling he'll be saying that a lot	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	lol	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	yea	[22:17]
jurov	that's there for future data archeologists, to discern fakes	[22:18]
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scoopbot	New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/an-interesting-anthropology-question/	[22:19]
jurov	they will also consider this a confirmation that mircea rides his keyboard hard	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/blob/master/saneprefs/gpg.conf << not bad!	[22:20]
assbot	cooperpair/gpg.conf at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub	[22:20]
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mircea_popescu	http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/openpgp/current/msg01077.html << who the fuck came up with thar brilliant idea.	[22:22]
assbot	Re: Suggested changes for DSA2, take 4	[22:22]
*	assbot gives voice to Pierre_Rochard	[22:22]
jurov	the article mentions "boundries" several times, too	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	"If the output size of the chosen hash is larger than the number of bits of q, the hash result is truncated to fit by taking the number of leftmost bits equal to the number of bits of q. This (possibly truncated) hash function result is treated as a number and used directly in the DSA signature algorithm."	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	ah ty.	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	http://bitdesire.com/crypto-money-expo-online-meeting/ << who is this ?	[22:25]
assbot	Crypto Money Expo - Bitcoin online meeting - Bitdesire - The Bitcoin Network	[22:25]
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jurov	Both conference founder Eyal Abramovitch and speaker/sponsor Ofir Beigel are members of Meni Rosenfeld‘s Israeli bitcoiner meetup.	[22:27]
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punkman	https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/tree/master/keysteak << "intercepts a request for a key by keyid, generates a PGPv3 key, performs the 0xdeadbeef attack, and returns a spoofed (but valid) PGPv3 key with the same long keyid."	[22:44]
assbot	cooperpair/keysteak at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub	[22:44]
punkbot	Bundled 1 deed \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1N8cgoM7	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	punkbot kinda why we use fingerprints.	[22:47]
punkbot	Confirmed bundle 1N8cgoM7SEC7bStCwWEuWFTcn8pKJGgcYa \| http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/1N8cgoM7	[22:47]
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ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: i think it claims to handle fingerprints as well: https://github.com/coruus/cooperpair/tree/master/keysteak#usage	[22:51]
assbot	cooperpair/keysteak at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub	[22:51]
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mircea_popescu	that's a bold claim.	[22:52]
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ben_vulpes	it's hard to tell if it's claiming that. the doc says "try this"	[22:52]
ben_vulpes	and i've not.	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	o wait, this is pgp v3	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	forget it lol, the thing is roughly bitcoin .9	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	i think even debian dropped it 5 years ago	[22:53]
ben_vulpes	subject of .9, has anyone downloaded the full chain with a .5/.6/.7/.8/.9 client? no bootstrapping, no shared db?	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	(v3 keys were md5 hashed)	[22:53]
punkman	it also does some tricks to make it look like v4 "Create a PGPv3 public key, v4 UID, and v4 signature"	[22:54]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, this is of relatively little consequence to us, because we use gribble rather than the pks mess.	[22:57]
punkman	worth a few words on wiki	[22:58]
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punkman	don't steal my shares guys http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/5RE44ZXbZyHhDqxLaBvKiYUztfyDcJSATzE8Gy4mN2eD	[22:58]
assbot	Deed 5RE44ZXb \| #bitcoin-assets deed registry	[22:58]
*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	yeah srsly, use fingerprints. but that aside, best practice is still to extract key via gribble db	[23:02]
punkman	you can only get fingerprint from gribble	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	what do you mean only ? that's what it is.	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	keyid 8A736F0E2FB7B452 fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452	[23:04]
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mircea_popescu	https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.crypt/JSSM6NbfweQ << this is good on the topic	[23:05]
assbot	Google Gruppi	[23:05]
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mircea_popescu	(of deadbeef v3 gpg sigs attack)	[23:05]
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cazalla	http://bitdesire.com/crypto-money-expo-online-meeting/ << who is this ? <<< i'm reading this and think, i fucking wrote this article!	[23:15]
assbot	Crypto Money Expo - Bitcoin online meeting - Bitdesire - The Bitcoin Network	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	so leave the guy a comment.	[23:15]
jurov	ben_vulpes iirc i did it with .7 or .8 then "bootstrapped" .9 by pointing it to .8 node on LAN	[23:16]
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mircea_popescu	did with numerous .6 versions.	[23:18]
jurov	but a hdd died, so i don't have pre - .9 blockchain anymore	[23:18]
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*	scoopbot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:25]
*	smidge has quit (Quit: sorry, but you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck...)	[23:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22146 @ 0.00056662 = 12.5484 BTC [+]	[23:28]
ben_vulpes	good to know, thanks	[23:28]
*	adrrr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[23:29]
*	ben_vulpes is wondering about the practicality of using 0.5.3 as a starting pin	[23:29]
jurov	we'll see if this gets anywhere... it's how much since whole thing started? a week?	[23:31]
*	Quanttek has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[23:33]
punkman	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xombrero	[23:44]
assbot	xombrero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	also webkit.	[23:45]
mircea_popescu	and im pretty sure all my blockchains are pre .5 for that matter.	[23:47]
*	dnaleor has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)	[23:48]
*	jacoblyles (~jacoblyle@2601:9:8580:1f3:31bc:bbac:2ffa:5b5b) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:51]
*	Guest26518 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:51]
*	jacoblyles has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[23:55]

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