Forum logs for 02 Sep 2016

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
BingoBoingo: Tis the way of the hamplanet [00:00]
mircea_popescu: and to wash BingoBoingo 's heresies down, http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llcw0251Xc1qbznsao1_r1_1280.jpg [00:02]
boolcrap: what kind of man shaves their balls [00:08]
mircea_popescu: the kind that is sick of trying to wash saliva out of tufty hairs [00:10]
boolcrap: easy solution [00:10]
boolcrap: dont get blowjobs [00:10]
boolcrap: or just find the girl that kind of only licks the tip [00:10]
mircea_popescu: what kind of a man doesn't get blowjobs ? [00:10]
boolcrap: good question [00:10]
boolcrap: i cannot answer but im sure they exist [00:10]
BingoBoingo: $up boolcrap [00:26]
deedbot: boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes. [00:26]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/musk-rocket-goes-boom-destroying-zuckerberg-satellite/ << Qntra - Musk Rocket Goes Boom Destroying Zuckerberg Satellite [00:32]
BingoBoingo: $up boolcrap [01:05]
deedbot: boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes. [01:05]
PeterL: obnoxious thing about winblows #67542: using \ as a directory separator rather than / like other OSen. bleh. [08:23]
shinohai: It's how you separate the wheat from the chaff. [08:24]
mircea_popescu: lol [08:52]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the physics is SO unfair! [08:55]
mircea_popescu: doesn't it know these people have note from bahamas ?!?!?! [08:55]
mircea_popescu: even asange said this should happen to the russians! not to them! scandalous. [08:55]
BingoBoingo: totally [09:08]
mircea_popescu: aaand qntra shares added. [09:10]
BingoBoingo: ty [09:10]
mircea_popescu: nono, my pleasure [09:11]
BingoBoingo: If only shinohai's "ty" bot was here [09:12]
shinohai: heh [09:13]
mircea_popescu: lol [09:13]
shinohai: you are welcome to take over maintenance BingoBoingo, I bought it a dedi shell and everything. [09:15]
BingoBoingo: Nah, I don't speak robot. [09:16]
BingoBoingo: At least not the language of their insides. [09:16]
BingoBoingo: brb [09:18]
mircea_popescu: lol shinohai will instruct noobs. how to play eulora how to run bot how to fuck camhos and other thangs. [09:19]
mircea_popescu: the reason he's meeting venezuelan friend isn't what you think, but - they'll both go meet the girl, take her back to hotel, then shinohai's gonna be "alright bro, now take your pants off. not those pants, these pants. yes off. here's a webpage with screenshots. ok, now..." [09:19]
BingoBoingo: $b 2 [09:20]
shinohai: I don't give camho fucking lessons, if one cannot figure the best way to do that on your own then I imagine there is little hope left in the world for you. [09:20]
mircea_popescu: dude you kidding ? fucking is complicated. [09:20]
shinohai: Sure it ir, but you don't have to be a graduate of Don Juan university to do it either. [09:21]
mircea_popescu: for one thing, usg hasn't yet liberated female pelvis. current version still has confusing # of holes. [09:21]
mircea_popescu: but i hear they're making an upgrade marked mandatory for everyone. called persistent cloaca. [09:21]
mircea_popescu: (look it up, bout 50 ppm or such as it is) [09:23]
* shinohai searches trilema for an `Art of Fucking` piece. [09:23]
mircea_popescu: there's some periphrastic work but afaik i've not tackled this monster as of yet. [09:23]
BingoBoingo: Well, shinohai's about to have a really disappointed Venezualan on his hands if mp doesn't [09:26]
BingoBoingo: brb 4real nao [09:26]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-august-2016-statement/ << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) August 2016 Statement [09:27]
thestringpuller: doesn't shinohai have lady already? [10:36]
shinohai: Nope thestringpuller have been single for several months now [10:37]
thestringpuller: oh so no excuse not to go to D*C [10:41]
thestringpuller: :D [10:41]
asciilifeform: what's that ? [10:42]
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://lwn.net/Articles/699047 [10:55]
asciilifeform: 'Outgoing Apache OpenOffice project management committee (PMC) chair Dennis Hamilton has begun the discussion of a possible (note possible at this point) shutdown of the project. "In the case of Apache OpenOffice, needing to disclose security vulnerabilities for which there is no mitigation in an update has become a serious issue. In responses to concerns raised in June, the PMC is currently tasked by the ASF Board to account for thi [10:55]
asciilifeform: s inability and to provide a remedy. An indicator of the seriousness of the Board's concern is the PMC been requested to report to the Board every month, starting in August, rather than quarterly, the normal case. One option for remedy that must be considered is retirement of the project. The request is for the PMC's consideration among other possible options." ' [10:55]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7ECDAB4F47DC074FD5DD619E8497611C76099101869F1050F59331ACB3688182 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 145779041854024466543805435305040161032263039552445727478889939629125145055920877942711960663495543281995643871739066589514344423826837360474704980190032888801407462352657389669434143403256718707620480595574061505020992885043476125599502375559426045681606348052292104535537217875044255423036410266975082307929 divides RS [11:17]
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F8011333E293B9F0A5F9BE238EEE6962F9991F66F3FA36CDC317C0680C02D5AF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 145779041854024466543805435305040161032263039552445727478889939629125145055920877942711960663495543281995643871739066589514344423826837360474704980190032888801407462352657389669434143403256718707620480595574061505020992885043476125599502375559426045681606348052292104535537217875044255423036410266975082307929 divides RS [11:17]
asciilifeform: ^ Chicago, Illinois, US. 'CLEAR WIRELESS LLC'. [11:18]
asciilifeform: and Rochester, New York, same. [11:18]
mircea_popescu: nice thick factorz. [11:21]
asciilifeform: $ timeout -k 0m 3s nc 96.24.7.172 22 [11:21]
asciilifeform: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.2 [11:21]
asciilifeform: $ timeout -k 0m 3s nc 66.233.213.117 22 [11:21]
asciilifeform: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.2 [11:21]
mircea_popescu: aha [11:21]
mircea_popescu: $s "OpenSSH_5.2" [11:21]
a111: 4 results for "\"OpenSSH_5.2\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22OpenSSH_5.2%22 [11:21]
asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaand now we have another idiotmodem. [11:21]
asciilifeform: btw i once bought a 'clear wireless' modem thing. [11:21]
asciilifeform: sent it back, the claimed coverage area was a fiction. [11:22]
asciilifeform: (this was some years ago.) [11:22]
* mircea_popescu doesn't use wireless. [11:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu sits on fnargl throne, aha, and trails long wire behind him on occasions when he is carried. [11:22]
mircea_popescu: you all want wireless because you grow cats in the house, admit it. [11:23]
mircea_popescu: but yes, when i had garden in timisoara i also had a spool of cat5. [11:23]
asciilifeform: incidentally i suspect the 'cellular' ips are not modems. [11:25]
asciilifeform: the latter typically do not allow for remote access (this is a major sticking point, they dun like incoming) [11:25]
mircea_popescu: hm this is a good point huh [11:25]
mircea_popescu: watch that it's actual towers lmao [11:26]
mircea_popescu: "phuctor has accidentally uncovered an access gateway for the usg global intercept network" [11:27]
jurov: Qntra shares distributed. [11:27]
shinohai: ty jurov and also do you have updated .deb for eulora? [11:32]
jurov: oh not yet [11:34]
shinohai: :/ ok [11:35]
jurov: maybe today, thx for reminder [11:35]
shinohai: werd [11:36]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the major point re the Framedragger keyz, is that if going by the usual braindamaged-rng hypothesis, we are uncovering a small % of phuctorables. [11:44]
asciilifeform: and could potentially blow considerably (say, 100,000x) moar, if we knew the mechanism (e.g. 'marsaglia rng seeded with last 16 bits of time stamp at first boot) which produced them. [11:46]
mircea_popescu: yes. [11:46]
asciilifeform: given as what we're seeing is 'birthday paradox.' [11:46]
mircea_popescu: yes. [11:46]
mircea_popescu: the correct move here if we had spare engineers would be to run a complete review of open sores crypto material generators, starting with openssh [11:46]
mircea_popescu: and then apply that to zero field, timestamps, etc. [11:47]
mircea_popescu: get a "cloud" of likely primes, much in the way "artificial intelligence" works. [11:47]
asciilifeform: or even to take 1 known pair of key and what-made-it, and work backwards. [11:47]
mircea_popescu: ie, if paul biggar weren't a total idiot, he'd be here doing this. [11:47]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's much iffier because as you've seen in the field, the idiots who are idiots once are going to be idiots forever [11:48]
mircea_popescu: what's that "pirate party" derp again ? [11:48]
asciilifeform: hasimir ? [11:48]
mircea_popescu: something like that. [11:48]
mircea_popescu: NONE of them produced the fucking software. all of them produced various versions of "oh, you owe us things" [11:48]
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-17-aug-2016#2149621 << [11:49]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 16:09 mircea_popescu: $rate hasimir -1 Ill informed idiot. [11:49]
mircea_popescu: right. [11:49]
mircea_popescu: somehow the "here is the code i compiled to run to obtain that result" is not obviously the ONLY thing they may do in their situation. [11:49]
mircea_popescu: meaningless flailing about what "we haven't proven" however, ie, the ONLY thing they may not do in their situation, that they come up with qs. [11:49]
asciilifeform: eh i wasn't suggesting ~asking~ them. [11:50]
mircea_popescu: and you can ask / say whatever you want, idiot runs on own code and ain't taking outside input. [11:50]
asciilifeform: but to take one of the routers discussed in the netcat thread and actually see how it shits out key [11:50]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform emulating them, same diff. [11:50]
mircea_popescu: anyway. none of this is a good use of your time atm. [11:51]
asciilifeform: it could be good use of somebody ~else~ [11:51]
mircea_popescu: hence why "ask them". [11:51]
mircea_popescu: yes, it could have, at any point during the past year, been a significant way for the derps to contribute and very cheap for them. [11:52]
mircea_popescu: but they are derps because impotent, not because "mp hates them" [11:52]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh, betcha hanno boeck et al are already nearly done cooking up a 'we've been surveying bad ssh keygen for 111 years' crock of shit [13:17]
mircea_popescu: $key mihi [13:18]
deedbot: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/fa988714-c82c-4fae-b4f6-fe63d184f1a0/ [13:18]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im sure. [13:18]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the monkey house, https://archive.is/0Afgw [13:57]
asciilifeform: 'Last week, a defense lawyer argued that the FBI drastically improved the performance of a dark web child pornography site in the process of investigating it. On Thursday, the Department of Justice responded, denying those claims.' [13:57]
mircea_popescu: lol [13:58]
mircea_popescu: i believe. [13:58]
asciilifeform: soooo, i suppose ~everyone recalls https://archive.is/L4C3X . and naturally nobody cancelled it : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrWvP7BVMAAFsVC.jpg [14:00]
mircea_popescu: loller [14:08]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever notice that ~all of the Framedragger boxes support publickey auth on ssh ? [14:15]
mircea_popescu: i didn't really dig into it. [14:17]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/jJPoN << quite related. [14:17]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: typically the key used for actually logging in is generated on same box. with same braindamaged rng. hopefully i dun need to draw a picture, it makes sense [14:18]
mircea_popescu: hey, let the reader benefit, what. [14:18]
trinque: asciilifeform: people generate their ssh privkey on the box *to which* they're connecting? [14:21]
asciilifeform: trinque: current working hypothesis is that ~none of the affected boxes are operated by 'people' [14:21]
asciilifeform: but instead shipped with a script that generates keys on first boot [14:21]
asciilifeform: (as typical router/modem/etc.) [14:22]
mircea_popescu: ^ [14:22]
trinque: I am on a terribly laggy connection, but people there can be understood as "manufacturers" [14:23]
trinque: all the networking gear I've seen didn't ship with any authorized_keys filled in [14:25]
asciilifeform: trinque: try a ssh -v ipaddrgoeshere -l root on one of these [14:25]
asciilifeform: do you still see a 'debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,password' ? [14:25]
mircea_popescu: trinque depends on setup sometimes nat people do this. gotta remember we're talking of a tiny fraction of the space here. [14:26]
asciilifeform: well other working hypothesis is that it is ~not~ tiny fraction, but a tip of the 'birthday theorem' iceberg. [14:26]
mircea_popescu: yes, the people with shitty opsec are never a tiny fraction of any group even if we don't meet them often [14:27]
asciilifeform: think of it as a geiger that rattled all day long at 1000x the familiar background for the room. [14:28]
trinque: asciilifeform: yes I know what that means. [14:28]
asciilifeform: yes, there IS some nonzero probability of it happening 'at random', but chances are that someone was served polonium tea. [14:28]
trinque: but it does not immediately follow that there are any authorized_keys set or determine where they were generated if so [14:29]
asciilifeform: and the tube is only seeing a microscopic fraction of the photons. [14:29]
asciilifeform: trinque: well that was the q. didja try it ? [14:29]
mircea_popescu: trinque his idea was that it's worth checking if there were not necessarily that there are. [14:29]
mircea_popescu: but at this point it wouldn't be much surprise if there were, honestly. [14:29]
trinque: ah well no argument I guess. [14:29]
trinque: people do the strangest things. [14:29]
asciilifeform: soooo, turns out that the 'publickey' thing is displayed whether or not it is actually enabled. [14:33]
asciilifeform: so we have 0 useful info re subj. [14:33]
mircea_popescu: to be clear here : if the keys are generated out of 16 bits of entropy and if there are 65537 keys then necessarily there will be at least one weak pair, and in practice more than half all of which will be cheaply hacked apart by phuctor's method. [14:39]
mircea_popescu: considering we have millions of keys, and considering the sort of shenanigans we've seen currently, including werner koch's gpg subversion most recently it would not be inconceivable at this point if a good chunk - thousands, hundreds of thousands of keys can actually be factored once we figure out which exact 20, 30, whatever bits are actual entropy , and how the nextprime is chosen on the basis of that. [14:40]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct. [14:40]
mircea_popescu: because if we discover that say "thisfunction is used on 64 bits of input of which the first 44 are known" then we run the other 20, add the resulting nextprime etc add those into the 8ball and it's goodnight. [14:41]
asciilifeform: aha. [14:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just making it plain for teh log readership. [14:41]
asciilifeform: it is quite conceivable, given the popping rate, that some large fraction of extant rsa keys have somewhere between 24 and 64 bits of actual entropy. [14:42]
mircea_popescu: yes. [14:42]
asciilifeform: in epic spam noose, 'HONR378Q Honors Seminar: Islamic Radicalization Drivers of Youth in the United States and Afghanistan Omar Samad, former Afghanistan Ambassador to France. This is a Global Classroom seminar: Using teleconferencing technology UMD Honors students will be conducting research with their Afghan peers at the American University of Afghanistan in Kabul.' --- then, 24 hrs later, [14:43]
asciilifeform: 'Yesterday, we announced HONR 378Q, and many of you are interested in the course. Unfortunately, as you may already know, AUAF was attacked by terrorists 10 days ago and they are in the process of recover. So we are unable to offer the course this semester but we are hopeful that we will be able to offer it in the future.' [14:43]
mircea_popescu: lol. [14:44]
mircea_popescu: is this what they call the police arresting the key people of their child porn ring ? "attacked by terrorists" ? [14:44]
mircea_popescu: no shame anymore. [14:44]
asciilifeform: when did these folks ever have shame. [14:45]
mircea_popescu: myeah. [14:45]
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/3eUpF << see also. [14:52]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: https://gnupg.org/blog/20160830-web-key-service.html << koch grunts again to push folks to gpg2. this time, by 'obsoleting' sks. [15:34]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: best part, now 'mailer can do encryption without user interaction' !11111 [15:35]
mircea_popescu: o ya, such feature. [15:35]
mircea_popescu: anyway. sks has no practical future. [15:35]
asciilifeform: neither does koch's not-sks. [15:35]
asciilifeform: ('wks') [15:35]
mircea_popescu: o he has a replacement ? lol [15:36]
asciilifeform: that was the whole lul in subj link. [15:36]
asciilifeform: he is pushing a new, gpg2-only thing. [15:37]
asciilifeform: unveiled at the 'pgp conference', no less. [15:37]
asciilifeform: (i can only assume, as this is where he was) [15:37]
mircea_popescu: the braindamage of faux incompatibility. [15:38]
mircea_popescu: wtf is "gpg-2" [15:38]
mircea_popescu: "what color is your rsa key bro" [15:38]
asciilifeform: the abortion discussed in the recent rng thread. [15:39]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i mean, i nthe context of keys. they're still the same damned thing, what "2" [15:39]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: idea was that only gpg2 knows how to talk to the 'wks' crapolade. [16:16]
shinohai: "An unknown individual using the encrypted privacy tool Tor to hide their tracks accessed an email account on a Clinton family server, the FBI revealed Friday." <<<< bwahahaha [16:25]
trinque: so NSA is favoring Trump or what? [16:26]
mircea_popescu: $up Rowtan [16:46]
deedbot: Rowtan voiced for 30 minutes. [16:46]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so basically they took the windows pill. [16:50]
mircea_popescu: "And honesty's against all common sense: men must be knaves, 'tis in their own defence. Mankind's dishonest if you think it fair among known cheats to play upon the square you'll be undone. Nor can weak truth your reputation save: the knaves will all agree to call you knave." [17:04]
asciilifeform: http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2016-09-02/hanjin-bankruptcy-causes-global-shipping-chaos-retail-fears << moar lelz. [17:11]
asciilifeform: 'The bankruptcy of the Hanjin shipping line has thrown ports and retailers around the world into confusion, with giant container ships marooned and merchants worrying whether tons of goods will reach their shelves. The South Korean giant filed for bankruptcy protection on Wednesday and stopped accepting new cargo. With its assets being frozen, ships from China to Canada found themselves refused permission to offload or take aboard co [17:12]
asciilifeform: ntainers because there were no guarantees that tugboat pilots or stevedores would be paid.' [17:12]
mircea_popescu: aha [17:20]
mircea_popescu: time to buy your ship if you're serious. this unique circumstance in human history will never repeat. [17:20]
asciilifeform: lel [17:23]
mircea_popescu: tis a fact. [17:24]
asciilifeform: 'folks charging $1000 per container could not afford the diesel. i know great idea! i'll buy one and carry 0 containers, charging $0 !' [17:24]
asciilifeform: these ships have exactly all of the appeal of driving a ww2 panther tank around town. [17:25]
mircea_popescu: they float. [17:27]
mircea_popescu: unlike the kickstarter lolrlov nonsense. they exist, and they float. nobody asks you to go from vancouver to huangzhou. [17:28]
asciilifeform: what's the mtbf on these things ? [17:28]
mircea_popescu: for what operational definition ? [17:28]
mircea_popescu: mean time between hull failures is about a century. [17:28]
asciilifeform: for 'failure' being 'not repairable outside of dry dock' [17:29]
mircea_popescu: few are ever repaired. [17:29]
asciilifeform: that doesn't sound good. [17:29]
mircea_popescu: too expensive to drydock. cheaper to melt and make new one than "fix". [17:29]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform most galleons were never repaired also. [17:30]
asciilifeform: until the day when no new ones are available at any price. [17:30]
mircea_popescu: if you buy a newish one at a fire sale/bankruptcy proceeding today you will die before it dies. [17:30]
mircea_popescu: how long do you think you got, a century ? [17:30]
asciilifeform: let's run with this concept. say i buy. where to park it ? [17:31]
mircea_popescu: you don't park it. you live on it. [17:31]
mircea_popescu: intl waters. [17:31]
asciilifeform: and never walk off for supplies, etc [17:32]
asciilifeform: ? [17:32]
mircea_popescu: you got a crane or two. get people to bring you supplies by boat. [17:32]
asciilifeform: i suppose when you're mircea_popescu, you can just moore your dirigible to it. [17:32]
mircea_popescu: if you buy enough walmart will do anything. [17:32]
asciilifeform: *moor [17:32]
mircea_popescu: hey, i had them deliver 2 tons of water by hand the whole purchase was a few hundred bux. [17:32]
mircea_popescu: they'll deliver. you just buy your sprat by the pellet rather than by the box as now. it keeps./ [17:33]
asciilifeform: neato. [17:33]
mircea_popescu: it works better if you have half a dozen slavegirls with you buy ten tons of flour, have them make bread each day [17:33]
asciilifeform: incidentally, if this is a thing, how come nobody afaik uses old cargo ship as office space. [17:34]
mircea_popescu: flour also keeps esp at sea. ten tons will still only cost you a few thousand dollars, who cares. [17:34]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some people do. it sucks. [17:34]
asciilifeform: where are the sad flotillas full of captive programmers etc. [17:34]
mircea_popescu: but that's because living on the sea sucks, not because the ships suck. [17:34]
mircea_popescu: there's MANY flotillas of sad shoe makers / tailors etc. [17:34]
mircea_popescu: hundreds of ships load raw materials in china deliver product in brazil and back and forth [17:35]
mircea_popescu: like a large sort of ant colony digesting leaves of denim [17:35]
mircea_popescu: the reason they're not programmers is that there's no useful value in programming. [17:35]
asciilifeform: what's the win from hosting the shoemakers on the ship per se ? [17:35]
asciilifeform: vs only the shoes [17:35]
mircea_popescu: it's entirely a social-media thing. boys "program" exactly like the girls "are popular" [17:35]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they can't leave. [17:36]
mircea_popescu: better work ethic. [17:36]
asciilifeform: and on land they can leave ? [17:36]
mircea_popescu: yes. [17:36]
asciilifeform: i suppose on the boat they cannot go to the pub etc. [17:36]
mircea_popescu: review the problems of running mines in the us cca 1800. dumbass minersd want to work a week and visit a brothel. [17:36]
mircea_popescu: this is plowing with chickens. they work for a year at a time not for a two hour stretch then you got a business. [17:36]
asciilifeform: that this was not yet done to programmers illustrates the 'nobody needs 'software industry' for very much, it would not cover the diesel' hypothesis. [17:38]
mircea_popescu: exactly. [17:38]
asciilifeform: then again, lawyers or stock traders are likewise not yet on the ship. [17:38]
mircea_popescu: programming is not an economic activity it has no value. it's a social activity, like clicking on lolpics or liking on facebook. [17:38]
asciilifeform: the mere fact of the absence of the slave ship does not tell us why. [17:38]
mircea_popescu: the govt distributes largesse for this and for that, so the mouthbreathers can keep going. [17:38]
asciilifeform: arguably making shoes for these selfsame people is likewise countereconomic. [17:39]
asciilifeform: even if the shoes - are real. [17:39]
diana_coman: <mircea_popescu> it's entirely a social-media thing. boys "program" exactly like the girls "are popular" <- only today I read in that sad ACM magazine that *used* to be a thing about the great discovery of "helping" children finally learn programming by...making it social! [17:40]
diana_coman: so myeah, spot on [17:40]
mircea_popescu: heh [17:40]
diana_coman: social as in social-media, ofc [17:41]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this isn't to say that there can't exist a market or that one can't write useful code. [17:41]
mircea_popescu: but the bullshit koch does or blizzard does or app development or etc ain't it [17:41]
asciilifeform: the activity as now extant resembles, more than anything, the building of the pyramids. [17:42]
mircea_popescu: not even vaguely. the activity resembles final middle school camp. [17:43]
mircea_popescu: all the boys are out in the forest jacking off, and all the girls are being mean to each other in circles of n-1 [17:43]
mircea_popescu: but whatever, highschool's starting soon. [17:43]
asciilifeform: that makes it sound like harmless fun [17:49]
asciilifeform: which it, by and large, is not. [17:49]
asciilifeform: cleaning up the mess from the circle jerk will take 10,001 man-year of people of whom not even 100 are alive. [17:49]
mircea_popescu: not really. i already cleanned it up exactly in the way the spunk left behind by the teens is cleanned. [17:50]
mircea_popescu: "just don't go there" aka http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ [17:50]
asciilifeform: point finger != cleaned up. [17:50]
mircea_popescu: that's not it. just ... look, all this "work" that the prb derps think they're doing. it has no future. it isn't getting imported into bitcoin. [17:51]
mircea_popescu: they think they're important, fine. every teenager thinks himself important, and relevant to the world. the truth is none of them are either. [17:51]
mircea_popescu: this is universally true. a lot of "work" was "put" into myspace. so ? nobody cares, nobody uses it. same is true of google, or of facebook. [17:52]
mircea_popescu: maybe, vaguely, we might resurect something later that people who are really emotionalyl invested in their youth not having been wasted will misinterpret as "we took it from google". [17:52]
asciilifeform: before stomping a scorpion, i do not need to buy a new scorpion. but before shooting horse, i gotta buy a new horse. [17:52]
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, we didn't. [17:52]
mircea_popescu: this isn't a horse, or a scorpion. it's a fashion. [17:53]
asciilifeform: (e.g., the case of pgp) [17:53]
mircea_popescu: before not caring about random fashion, one needn't even know it exists. there are really NO prerequisites to simply not including bad code, caring abotu stupid social conventions etc. [17:53]
asciilifeform: or, more pointedly, the long and quite unpleasant surgery involved in undoing the idiocies of 'satoshi' derp, by no means complete even now [17:54]
mircea_popescu: i shall handwave again at you. [17:55]
asciilifeform: mega-argument. [17:55]
asciilifeform: 'don't go there' is very simple algo when you have another 'there' to which to do. [17:56]
asciilifeform: *to go. [17:56]
mircea_popescu: aha. hey, i'm a man of simple tastes. 120 tdw boat , dirigible... i always content myself with the very inaccessible. [17:57]
asciilifeform: for some reason my immediate mental image now is the legendary newly oil-rich bedouins who, supposedly, abandoned mercedes in the desert rather than bothering to refuel it [17:59]
asciilifeform: (refueling was seen as 'dirty' work, unfit for manly man etc.) [18:00]
asciilifeform: or so it went. [18:00]
mircea_popescu: heh [18:00]
asciilifeform: i have nfi if this tale is true, but there is another, steve dutch (geologist, i linked to a few of his pieces) reported that arabs initially had serious problems with oil well maintenance when no migrant worker could be found to wash a part, oil a machine, etc. [18:02]
asciilifeform: True Man would dirty his hands with no such thing. or sumthing. [18:02]
mircea_popescu: who knows. fact is romania had it made in the shade, exporting skilled workers + machined parts in exchange for straight out concessions. had its own oil field which it sucked with its own rigs, oil moved on its own boats to its own refineries [18:03]
mircea_popescu: how this came to pass is anyone's guess, but the arabs had a reputation for engineeringly inept. [18:03]
asciilifeform: same way, e.g., aramco came to exist. [18:03]
mircea_popescu: pretty much [18:04]
mircea_popescu: it's probably gay to wash things, who even knows. [18:05]
asciilifeform: this is not so far out. [18:05]
mircea_popescu: "i wash sword in blood of enemies and dick in ass of their wives. what need has true man for water ?" [18:05]
asciilifeform: picture, if you will, if tomorrow some tech were introduced that required operator to lactate. [18:05]
mircea_popescu: you mean like babies ? [18:06]
asciilifeform: well, no, some contrived item, closer to oil drilling. [18:06]
asciilifeform: http://oglaf.com/son-of-kronar << oblig. [18:10]
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-02#1533505 << this is sop for dudes who get their balls sucked with any kind of regularity. mebbe it's a bit pornstarish but it's the only way to live. [18:51]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-02 04:08 boolcrap: what kind of man shaves their balls [18:51]
pete_dushenski: in other sexy news, the mpex 'speed bump' feature is catching on beyond iex. http://archive.is/0xOrx [18:55]
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1532928 << /adds episode to list, mostly because all canada is doing is paying attention to trump. [18:58]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-01 14:14 mircea_popescu: so i watched a southpark episode last night, it was one about how all the canadians moved to the us because they had elected a trump and canada was turned into a total detroit by his idiocy BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION, and it made me think of http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160831/from:98/to:98#98 [18:58]
pete_dushenski: there's a lotta "if trump were elected i just wouldn't even know what to say or do" going around [18:58]
pete_dushenski: as if it isn't happening. or can just be "unhappened" if it inconveniently does [18:59]
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-31#1532632 << wut, like i'm japanese master carpenter who doesn't even need nails to make timber structure stand for 1000 years ? hardly. anyways, the vanity is getting scrapped in favour of other reno prioritays. [19:03]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-31 19:55 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Just shop for lumber and stone slabs. Teach the tot carpentry. [19:03]
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1532649 << offline build script is mega nifty, mod6. i'll definitely be testing this out before long :) [19:05]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-01 00:03 mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-September/000232.html [19:05]
shinohai: Speed bump article is interesting pete_dushenski [19:05]
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1532666 << thought this was plasticarwagon a la BingoBoingo at first. prolly citroen/peugeot upon further review. [19:06]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-01 03:05 mircea_popescu: and in other excessive opulence news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_loa4f0dV5g1qmk4gro1_1280.jpg [19:06]
shinohai: leggz [19:07]
pete_dushenski: shinohai: ya not bad eh. each exchange is favouring different party. diversitay done right. [19:08]
shinohai: ^.^ [19:08]
* pete_dushenski enjoys guess the car from one curve/angle/snippet game [19:09]
pete_dushenski: speaking of the power of violence as a force for edumacation : http://archive.is/WiEYD [19:10]
pete_dushenski: "Once a Bucknell Professor, Now the Commander of an Ethiopian Rebel Army" [19:10]
pete_dushenski: somehow prof berhanu nega wasn't stopped at departure lounge for going to fight with 'isis or similar flavour of yogurt'. must be plumbook terrorist. [19:12]
asciilifeform: lel new colour revolution [19:24]
pete_dushenski: myup, which, like paris eating couscous, will result in washington eating injera [19:26]
pete_dushenski: "Nega insists that Ethiopia has “cooked the books,” and that its growth rate is largely attributable to huge infrastructure projects and Western development aid, with little contribution from the private sector." << all to protect reputation of bahamas homeland [19:27]
pete_dushenski: "Two months before Obama arrived, the government presided over what was widely considered a sham election, in which the ruling party won all 547 seats in Parliament, But Obama, making it clear that security trumped other concerns in the Horn of Africa, stood beside Meles’s successor, Prime Minister Hailemariam Desalegn, and described the government as being “democratically elected.” [19:35]
pete_dushenski: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/southpark/images/1/17/Ep_109_starvinmarvin.gif/revision/latest?cb=20070818234354 << oblig. ethiopian [19:38]
pete_dushenski: "“If you like comfort, and that’s what drives you, you’ll never do this,” he told me, taking a sip of the ice-cold vodka. “But sometimes you get really surprised. Once you have a commitment to something, all these things that you thought were normal in your day-to-day life become unnecessary luxuries.”" << amen. spoken like a true terrorist. [19:39]
pete_dushenski: in fact, if anything defines a "terrorist" it's exactly this spitting in the face of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1533233 [19:40]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-01 20:36 mircea_popescu: "The sports casters are blaming back to school shopping, as if kids never before got outfitted for school at the and of August." << ahahaha. mno. as if anyone in the us has any money to spend. that's the big fucking point. usg.agitprop is talking about some wholly hallucinated shoping, that in their feverish imagination is so outsized as to keep people away from baseball even ? [19:40]
mod6: <+pete_dushenski> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1532649 << offline build script is mega nifty, mod6. i'll definitely be testing this out before long :) << thanks! [19:40]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-01 00:03 mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-September/000232.html [19:40]
pete_dushenski: at least ~one~ of the foundation chairs is pulling their weight :P [19:41]
* pete_dushenski bbl [19:41]
shinohai: http://archive.is/Af8zl <<< should we add this to wp-mp mircea_popescu ? [19:43]
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Even hobbyist carpenters don't use nails [20:05]
shinohai: BingoBoingo: http://ix.io/1jsj [20:10]
BingoBoingo: ty [20:13]
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/california-plans-anti-cattle-legislation/ << Qntra - California Plans Anti-Cattle Legislation [20:17]
mod6: $up Bugpowder [21:13]
deedbot: Bugpowder voiced for 30 minutes. [21:13]
Bugpowder: MOOOONEROOOOOO [21:13]
mod6: werd up [21:13]
Bugpowder: its been a good week. why not qntra article on how monero is not the one true bitcoin yet? [21:14]
Bugpowder: Is trilema consensus that monero has some potential value in its feature set? [21:15]
mod6: uh. i doubt it. can't speak for other tho. [21:16]
mod6: wtf is monero? [21:16]
Bugpowder: yeah I doubt it too… [21:16]
shinohai: As asciilifeform says, I see nothing in monero even worth stealing [21:16]
mircea_popescu: shinohai but why ? [21:17]
Bugpowder: a cryptonote fork that provides user selectable transaction privacy, from public (like bitcoin) to fully private (only sender and recipient know) using ring encryption. [21:17]
mod6: ah, i saw something about that. it said: DRUG DEALERS LOVE THIS! [21:18]
Bugpowder: Alphabay and Oasis annouced support and the price went nuts [21:18]
Bugpowder: Although if you look on the sites, only 10% of vendors accept it. [21:18]
mircea_popescu: $s monero [21:18]
a111: 129 results for "monero", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=monero [21:18]
mircea_popescu: the logs be your friendz [21:18]
mod6: ah, werd [21:19]
Bugpowder: and if every transaction from supporting vendors was paid with XMR, still only looking at $20,000 / day. [21:19]
shinohai: Nothing stands out to me as special about, has blockchain bloat, I'd rather use Bitcoin to buy drugs. [21:19]
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160903/from:114/to:114#114 << the downside being that hair protects them from rub burns [21:19]
Bugpowder: so price is not supported by fundamental use levels now. BUT, you know how price works in this space. Every alt is a tech stock valued on hype and growth potential. And hype is pretty high right now. [21:21]
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160903/from:119/to:119#119 << as opposed to anything else whatsoever happening, right ? like, if a girl walks up to them and says hi. or if there's an angry mob. or whatever else. [21:21]
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder seems it has some chance to become the next usg-sponsored wanna-be bitcoin thingee. that's usually good for a ride, fed still has a lot of printolade to spread around. [21:21]
mod6: for now, ya [21:22]
mircea_popescu: though it'd seem they've learned their etherape lesson and are much more conservative on the fiat side. prolly will be more like doge than ethereum. anyway. [21:22]
Bugpowder: doge and ether never got traction in DNMs. [21:22]
mircea_popescu: you are aware that "dnm"s are entirely a puppet show by now, yes ? [21:23]
shinohai: Why would you use ETH in a darknet market? Just huff the shit and call it a day. [21:23]
Bugpowder: I think its privacy features address some serious potential issues that Bitcoin has with fungability and anon unmasking thorough chain analysis. [21:24]
Bugpowder: Really. A puppet show? Is AlphaBay an FBI honeypot? A “Playpen” for drug users? [21:25]
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder looky : the original "dnm", ie silk road, never made any economic sense. and then went away. FOR THIS REASON. the subsequent attempts to enact this as a thing, including coming up with bullshit three letter acronyms, were strictly exercises in http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160902/from:404/to:404#404 [21:35]
mircea_popescu: but whatever, i'm sure the derps involved think themselves finger-tenting lever clever for it. [21:36]
mircea_popescu: level* [21:36]
mircea_popescu: holy shit im becoming chinese. [21:37]
mod6: haha [21:38]
mircea_popescu: mod6 http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqhtnzPLK41r24u1yo1_500.gif << saw this, thought of you. [21:38]
mod6: Thanks, Sir. I like it! [21:39]
Bugpowder: Right, The Playpen operation. But there are so many DNMs, no way they are all honeypots. Now, some may be usgov inflitrated, tor may be usgov compromised, but I don’t think DNMs are driven by usgov. [21:39]
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder sure, and there are so many bitcoin faucets, no way they're all trojan downloaders. [21:39]
mircea_popescu: of course not. except if they grow big. because what are you going to do, the model doesn't work. [21:40]
mircea_popescu: in the absence of economic drivers, there will either be a political driver or no movement. which leaves us with the simple explanation. i don't gotta prove that every single individual woman thought of dick up her ass every time she spent too much money on cosmetics. [21:41]
mircea_popescu: "it just makes her feel ... good. for... herself." surely. [21:41]
Bugpowder: DNMs provide a service to clients, make money for vendors and the host. The risks are assymetric to the reward, but so is swallowing 50 condoms of blow and flying into the US. Plenty of people’s life circumstances make the reward calculus more appealing than you or I might find. [21:41]
mircea_popescu: in principle this can be said about anything just as well whether that anything exists or doesn't. [21:43]
mircea_popescu: $up Bugpowder [21:43]
deedbot: Bugpowder voiced for 30 minutes. [21:43]
mircea_popescu: voice yourself would you. [21:43]
Bugpowder: In turn, Monero has potential to fix a weak point in DNM function, which potentially provides significant value. Now, whether the tech geniuses that order on DNMs or vendors have the savvy to implement properly and with enough volume to make economic sense is another matter. [21:44]
mircea_popescu: it's altogether unclear it fixes anything the controlling discussion re that is alf's smoke grenade. [21:44]
mircea_popescu: but if you understand this ring signature thing past the buzzword level, feel free to introduce it rigurously and prove that claim. [21:44]
Bugpowder: I haven’t invested enough time to understand and technically defend it. But I know people who are true professional on the subject (pre-Bitcoin “professionalization”) and will solicit their expertise on the current state and on RingCT. [21:47]
mircea_popescu: and this doesn't worry you ? [21:48]
Bugpowder: As for the controlling issue, coopting of the project is certainly a major risk moving forward, but I do think you have too much confidence in the sophistication and coordinatino of usgov. [21:48]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the allegation is that the "privacy" offered is very heavily time bound that it naturally dissipates over time and that after a sufficient interval - say a year - one can rely on any and all transaction being no longer at all private. this means that the monero ring signature is in fact an anti-feature : it makes the superficial user (who either foolishly doesn't invest the time or otherwise lacks the capacity a [21:49]
mircea_popescu: ltogether) to detrimentally rely on a property that is temporary when he needs it to be permanent. [21:49]
mircea_popescu: you know, a little like the adjustable arm mortgages. [21:49]
Bugpowder: It does worry me, but I put that into the known unknowns category of risks. And pricing risk adjusted EV, still makes sense for me to hold a signifcant crypto fraction in XMR as printer of new bitcoin. It’s harder these days to print BTC without MPOE-bot. [21:50]
mircea_popescu: which is why i said http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160903/from:177/to:177#177 [21:51]
Bugpowder: So are you just chilling in Argentina on the spoils now… or do you have some new business/profit schemes? [21:52]
mircea_popescu: it's always been a mix of both. [21:53]
Bugpowder: well, let me know when the next interesting opportunity arises. [21:55]
mircea_popescu: hey, eulora is taking noobs. [21:55]
Bugpowder: u know i don’t got time fo that! [21:58]
mircea_popescu: well... [21:58]
Bugpowder: Alternatively, a mediterrainian Yacht party would be dope.. [21:59]
mircea_popescu: you bringin' the girls ? [21:59]
mircea_popescu: "This faucet has A LOT of options. Since I don’t have time to write them all down I created a video explaining everything you need to know about the faucet" << this somehow made sense, to someone. [21:59]
Bugpowder: heheheh don’t they come with the boat? [21:59]
mircea_popescu: ok, so you bring the boat ? [21:59]
Bugpowder: Renting one might be possible. [22:00]
mircea_popescu: right. [22:00]
Bugpowder: getting the wife to agree… harder. [22:00]
mircea_popescu: o hey, how's that going ? [22:00]
Bugpowder: life good. she forgave me for Just Dice accident. 2 kids now. They are running around outside now… Just need to secure long term funding for work and I’m probably set. [22:02]
mircea_popescu: still in that biochem thing ? what was it, neurotransmitters ? [22:03]
Bugpowder: Something like that… neural circuits. [22:04]
mircea_popescu: a right. [22:05]
mircea_popescu: anyway, dun too easily dismiss eulora. unlike whatever-dice, it's actually for smart people. [22:06]
Bugpowder: OK OK. when grant writing is done, I will check it out. Is it like huntercoin? Too bad the dev for that died. [22:06]
mircea_popescu: he died ?! [22:07]
mircea_popescu: but no, it's bitcoin-mmo. and after a year+, playerbase has not yet the slightest clue re mechanics involved. [22:07]
mircea_popescu: statistics is hard, turns out. especially when god hates your guts. [22:08]
Bugpowder: I think he died and the project stalled. But my news is a year out of date. Haven’t been paying attention until ETH/ETC… and there is just tooo much stuff in the ecosystem to keep track of these days. [22:09]
mircea_popescu: chet (original cto) also passed this spring. [22:09]
mircea_popescu: apparently games are bad for health. [22:09]
mod6: :[ [22:10]
Bugpowder: My thesis advisor also died this week. 64. Smartest guy I’ve met. [22:11]
mircea_popescu: kinda young huh [22:12]
Bugpowder: yeah he had a bad stroke a few years ago. Mostly recovered, but may have hit him again on a bike ride. [22:13]
Bugpowder: http://www.nature.com/news/roger-tsien-s-legacy-the-creations-that-lit-up-biology-1.20532 [22:13]
mircea_popescu: ah [22:13]
mircea_popescu: and in other news, saliva! http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llmjgkPaeE1qeox3uo1_1280.jpg [22:25]
mod6: looks ready [22:27]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-03#1533882 << is it a difficult concept that THERE IS NO SUCH THING as 'DNM', because there is no such thing as DN !? [23:40]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-03 01:39 Bugpowder: Right, The Playpen operation. But there are so many DNMs, no way they are all honeypots. Now, some may be usgov inflitrated, tor may be usgov compromised, but I don’t think DNMs are driven by usgov. [23:40]
asciilifeform: there are no 'darknets' [23:40]
asciilifeform: it is not a thing. [23:41]
asciilifeform: and any chain of logic predicated on it being a thing, leads to ignominious usg captivity and arse waltz. [23:41]
asciilifeform: at best. [23:41]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-03#1533894 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-30#1532069 [23:42]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-03 01:44 mircea_popescu: but if you understand this ring signature thing past the buzzword level, feel free to introduce it rigurously and prove that claim. [23:42]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-30 17:29 asciilifeform: davout: 'ring signatures' are not the promised 'invisibility cloak', but more of a smoke grenade. [23:42]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-03#1533893 << ah lel, we have it already. [23:42]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-03 01:44 mircea_popescu: it's altogether unclear it fixes anything the controlling discussion re that is alf's smoke grenade. [23:42]
asciilifeform: the ~approach~ i am seeing among monerists - 'it's a black box, i'ma assume it does the claimed magic' is also concerning. [23:43]
asciilifeform: how many of the 'privacy!1111' fanbois took the time to understand the algo ? [23:44]
asciilifeform: it isn't complicated. [23:44]
asciilifeform: depressingly familiar mass delusion (quite like, e.g., the tor thing.) [23:45]
Category: Logs
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