Forum logs for 01 Sep 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257882 << it is pretty much what it was "same cleaning, more or less, but not as harsh"	[00:00]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 01:20:23; asciilifeform: from sneeze meds that are less meth-worthy to floor cleaners lacking acids	[00:00]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: addison whitney	[00:00]
asciilifeform	(re: names firm)	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	sorta like Rembrandt School of Art : since 1950, making paintings almost as good as rembrandts, with less work per sq in	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform eh, wanna-bes.	[00:01]
mircea_popescu	in local news, argentina GDP fell 4.9% today because one of the lengthy queues accidentally merged with its own ending, resulting in 84`755 people spending an average of 8 hours following a very intricate 12 mile pattern through town for no apparent purpose.	[00:05]
phf	get in queue, figure out what's available later, su style	[00:07]
asciilifeform	;;later tell gernika http://loper-os.org/pub/derive_and_more.img.gz << floppy image containing PROPER msdos, sys utils (for making more of self), himem, edit, qbasic, buncha other stuff, and Derive.	[00:08]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:08]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KAXR6u )	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257900 << specifically, this log http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-08-2015#1254484	[00:08]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 01:29:13; asciilifeform: no one is banning linux. instead there is a 'linux foundation' (see log) which will sign 'legit, non-terrorist' kernels for you	[00:08]
assbot	Logged on 28-08-2015 16:50:54; mircea_popescu: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/082XAM5.txt	[00:08]
asciilifeform	$ sha512sum derive_and_more.img.gz	[00:08]
asciilifeform	49e7e9968bdbfee0a96fddbd4f9deb7b8df9911381805710797f2d4e56637c1f4a0efacb4675e7e28020c877fc02b6725a3263ca5f8b5b2ed51cd6aa7908a7b3 derive_and_more.img.gz	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	qbasic lol.	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	so much better than gwbasic	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	why ? the eval!	[00:09]
asciilifeform	aha.	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	dedicated eval window	[00:09]
asciilifeform	fuck yeah.	[00:09]
asciilifeform	;;later tell gernika it will boot in 'qemu' too.	[00:09]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257909 << quite.	[00:10]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 01:33:36; asciilifeform: on account of how you can't really write an engaging yarn about inhabitants of the real thing, as we have it	[00:10]
mircea_popescu	reality beats fiction mostly because fiction has to be things reality does not.	[00:10]
mircea_popescu	oh, you're not so very engaged by this reality ? FUCK YOU BITCH LMAO	[00:11]
asciilifeform	such as having conscious peopl ein it, aha	[00:11]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell fluffypony Is this really the way to seed anything? https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/blob/master/src/crypto/oaes_lib.c#L503	[00:11]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:11]
assbot	bitmonero/oaes_lib.c at master · monero-project/bitmonero · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KAYcWR )	[00:11]
gernika	asciilifeform - I haven't tried it. Running it on an old thinkpad. Got msdos 6.2 working in parallels - but parallels is literally a virus.	[00:11]
asciilifeform	gernika: it's a straight floppy image with the real thing in it, created strictly with actual msdos running on emulated hardware	[00:11]
gernika	ok not a virus but malware	[00:12]
asciilifeform	boots cleanly on actual dos box, tested.	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform one of the funniest protests (sexually repressed women generally) bring to my sexual themed writings is "oh, it would never happen like that".	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	"why not ?" "because uhm."	[00:12]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: naturally. in the mental universe various folks inhabit, nothing mircea_popescuine could even begin to contemplate happening.	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	in fairness most literature is not after life.	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	but it also has very little regard for you know, "the reader has come to expect"	[00:13]
gernika	asciilifeform oh derive.exe? derive.exe works in my parallels 6.2 image.	[00:13]
asciilifeform	at any rate, the fdd image is here for n00bz as well	[00:14]
asciilifeform	i encourage folks here to mirror it, somewhere.	[00:14]
asciilifeform	never know when a WORKING computeralgebratron will come in handy	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257921 << wait, no meta-fabs ?	[00:15]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 01:40:57; asciilifeform: so far, EVERY SINGLE SI FAB ON THE PLANET and ALL THE DESIGN TOOLING (with the exception of chuck moore's...) runs on winblowz	[00:15]
asciilifeform	btw i've always thought it would be interesting to get the lisp src of derive (yes) out of the exe	[00:15]
asciilifeform	it was written in 'mulisp', which is compiled in such a way as to make this theoretically feasible.	[00:15]
asciilifeform	reversing 'derive' is this thing that i come back to for a week or two every other year or so.	[00:16]
gernika	Wonder if the Soft Warehouse guys still live, and if they have it.	[00:16]
asciilifeform	gernika: they sold the rights to texas instruments	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	^	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	word!	[00:16]
asciilifeform	so in that sense, no	[00:16]
asciilifeform	(doubt they'd release it)	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	aww	[00:16]
asciilifeform	'texas' made prolly close to a billion, with it	[00:17]
phf	like some game enthusiasts trying to get source from electronic arts, good luck	[00:17]
asciilifeform	(they turned it into a line of calculators that was wildly popular)	[00:17]
gernika	I sadly DID NOT KNOW about this program in junior high and highschool.	[00:17]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[00:17]
asciilifeform	gernika: what would you have done, snuck dos box into exam ?	[00:17]
gernika	I would have checked then even numbered answers	[00:18]
gernika	on my homework	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	so i've been sort-of idly thinking maybe monero is actually something should be taken seriously. then BingoBoingo dug up https://forum.getmonero.org/4/academic-and-technical/303/a-formal-approach-towards-better-hard-fork-management	[00:21]
assbot	Monero \| Academic and Technical » A formal approach towards better hard fork management ... ( http://bit.ly/1KAZNvy )	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	check this out :	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	"Basic bottom line: every 6 months there's a hard fork. You get 1 hard fork's grace before you have to update or be left behind.	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	Details	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	Every 6 months, either on March 15 + September 15 or on April 15 + October 15, the Monero network will have a hard fork. 30 days before the fork we will have a code freeze + tag + release, and if there are no major changes we'll have an increase in the protocol version (ie. that's at a minimum). A similar fork system to Bitcoin will apply, whereby a rollover to the new code after the trigger block will only occur if a	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	sufficient number of miners are running the new code.	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	Anything that is more of a soft fork will kick in immediately (as long as it doesn't drop pre-fork clients off the network). Anything on the p2p layer (ie. hard forkable) will be kept in the wings until the next fork date (as roughly estimated from block height) and then is enabled.	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	The upshot of this is that you can run a client that is a year old, but pretty much after that 1 year anniversary you'll be dropped off the network (even if there have been no "real" changes in that year)."	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	and i'm like..... mmmkay nevermind.	[00:21]
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asciilifeform	it is 'interesting' in the same sense as denizen of insane asylum who thinks he is a glass bottle is more interesting than the fella who thinks he is ordinary napoleon ?	[00:22]
asciilifeform	can mircea_popescu or anyone else remind me, what was supposed to be the upside of being a glass bott^H^H^H^H^H^H^Husing monero ?	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform more in the sense that the blondy teen that is always clenching her jaws shut is vaguely interesting in a way her verbose airheaded cogeners are not	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257960 << definitely worked for me.	[00:25]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 02:28:35; gernika: boots up to C:. Then they just have to type in the name of the game they want to play and hit enter.	[00:25]
asciilifeform	was it the ring signature thing ?	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	that behaviour is certainly the l;argest contributor of wy i am even vaguely interested in computers at all	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	had i met linux as a boy i'd be pissing with froth on the entire stupid stack.	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform possibly.	[00:26]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i have written on many occasions, that this (the froth) is why the very youngest of the folks worth anything in computerdom are circa early 1980s	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257968 << ever tried captain comic ?	[00:26]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 02:36:00; *: asciilifeform fond of commander keen.	[00:26]
asciilifeform	aha!	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1257994 << no, it was not after the thread.	[00:32]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 02:51:34; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: after the thread!	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	wehn i linked to it, i linked to an item put there a week or so ago.	[00:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8502 @ 0.0006859 = 5.8315 BTC [+]	[00:33]
mod6	this press command is pretty neat	[00:34]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=417 << incidentally, champagne doesn't live too well in bottle.	[00:40]
assbot	#bitcoin-assets bash ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIntcu )	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	a year is one thing, but five's too many.	[00:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00068401 = 17.8527 BTC [-] {3}	[00:41]
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mircea_popescu	"mircea_popescu: giving inept infantrymen good horses doesn't create an elite cavalry regiment, it just creates a lot of injured horses. giving stupid people smart things doesn't make them smart. it'll just make a lot of broken smart things."	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	im in fucking love with the fucking bash omg/	[00:50]
phf	the only thing enemy will drink is amontillado	[00:51]
asciilifeform	'for the love of god, montrezor!!!'	[00:52]
phf	for the love of god	[00:53]
asciilifeform	!s montrezor	[00:53]
assbot	10 results for 'montrezor' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=montrezor	[00:53]
phf	bah, naturally	[00:53]
asciilifeform	http://ww3.ac-poitiers.fr/math/prof/logic/der1/der12009.htm << DERIVE lives in fr !!	[00:57]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JIpoO9 )	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	so speaking of http://trilema.com/2013/recapitulatio/ how long till coinbase is filing for creditor protection ?	[00:59]
assbot	Recapitulatio on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ifv4ta )	[00:59]
asciilifeform	waiwat	[01:00]
asciilifeform	why would they?	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	for the same reason.	[01:00]
asciilifeform	i mean, they are more or less the only mass vendor of coinz in usa	[01:00]
asciilifeform	i just gave them more than kilo personally not long ago	[01:01]
asciilifeform	terrible place to ~sell~, but perfectly workable to buy...	[01:01]
asciilifeform	(while supplies last...)	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	how much did they make on that deal ?	[01:02]
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asciilifeform	perhaps 10 usd	[01:02]
asciilifeform	and change.	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	how many alfs are there ? how many do they need, to cover their immense if fictitious debt base ?	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	your 10 bucks buys them less than a second of life.	[01:03]
asciilifeform	30! two of my neighbours in uranium mine also bought! aha	[01:03]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i still can't figure out why they are (?) in debt. am i thick or what	[01:04]
asciilifeform	why does it actually cost anything to run 'coinbase'	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	you kidding me they just took even more millions at whatever dilution	[01:04]
asciilifeform	it's a straight 'buy cheap, sell dear, get occasional mountain of looted coinz from usg' deal, no ?	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	why. because it's run by the catamite club of us.	[01:04]
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asciilifeform	what is the reason to think that they will ever have to pay it back ?	[01:05]
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mircea_popescu	"Alydian Inc., a unit of CoinLab Inc., on Friday filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. bankruptcy court in Seattle. The 10-page court filing didn't disclose why Alydian filed for bankruptcy or how it hopes to repay its debts."	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	why did those ?	[01:05]
asciilifeform	because not lubricated enough of a catamite ?	[01:05]
asciilifeform	did not go to yaletonward with the right folks ?	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	there's a finite count of failing to goal that these things can survive.	[01:06]
asciilifeform	idk	[01:06]
phf	(asciilifeform: by the way if you haven't played http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/darkeye/darkeye.htm. it's not much of a quest, but it has a consistently fantastic mood. Burroughs does voice acting for one of the characters)	[01:06]
assbot	Hardcore Gaming 101: The Dark Eye ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIqv0o )	[01:06]
asciilifeform	'coinbase' will be kept alive via whatever means, while it does its job (rat our folks who cash out to usd; keep price fire-extinguished a la gold)	[01:06]
asciilifeform	phf: neato	[01:07]
mod6	asciilifeform: qq, I was under the impression that when using press, if I picked something like 'maxint_corrected', it would patch all the way up through that one. but it didn't seem to apply the -verifyall patch? or do I misunderstand how its supposed to work? http://dpaste.com/1J2BS40.txt thoughts?	[01:07]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JIqDwE )	[01:07]
mod6	OH	[01:08]
mod6	i see, when i check flow, i see that 'verifyall' comes /after/ maxint	[01:08]
asciilifeform	^^ aha	[01:08]
mod6	which isn't the case chronoligicaly	[01:08]
mod6	but in this case, it is. i get it. sorry.	[01:09]
asciilifeform	but there are no timestamps, remember !	[01:09]
mod6	yup yup	[01:09]
mod6	i was mechanically cross checking the output file checksums against the v054-TEST2 bundle and noticed that i didn't come out with -verifyall in there. was really wondering for a minute lol.	[01:10]
mod6	*chronologically too	[01:10]
asciilifeform	mod6: does it make sense to you how 'flow' works ?	[01:11]
asciilifeform	this is perhaps the only difficult part of the thing	[01:11]
mod6	yeah, i don't grasp that part fully yet. but it does make sense from genesis up through patches/bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch	[01:12]
mod6	i suspect that I'll need to look at the touched files and the hashes to make sense of this.	[01:13]
asciilifeform	roughly, the way it works - must work - is that no patch is applied for which the dependencies have not already been applies.	[01:13]
asciilifeform	*applied	[01:13]
asciilifeform	this is what 'topological sort' means	[01:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00068299 = 17.0748 BTC [-] {4}	[01:14]
mod6	ok, i think i get it. neither patches/asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.vpatch or patches/asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option.vpatch have any dependants (d's)	[01:15]
asciilifeform	incidentally, your unixlike box almost certainly has 'tsort' utility	[01:15]
asciilifeform	which does just this.	[01:15]
mod6	but the rest do, so they come last.	[01:15]
mod6	well, the 2 i just mentioned come last. is there any reason on the sort order of the last 2? or i just need to grok toposort more?	[01:16]
asciilifeform	descendants !	[01:16]
asciilifeform	OPPOSITE!	[01:16]
asciilifeform	time for a brief likbez, perhaps. antecedent - earlier patch that must have happened to satisfy a given patch	[01:16]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> descendants ! << mean this, my apologies.	[01:16]
asciilifeform	descendant - later patch, which requires this patch.	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	in unrelated news, http://31.media.tumblr.com/2bee425c083912f62e0841981d446c0a/tumblr_ntcvokvrnL1tcjd1io1_400.gif	[01:17]
mod6	heheh, my fingers didn't want to type what my brain was trying to say. it's a little baked from the sun today at the fair.	[01:17]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ifwFyZ )	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	perhaps the anatomically nudest orgasm depiction	[01:17]
asciilifeform	waitasec that's a human ?!	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[01:18]
mod6	oo a gif	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	purely mechanical functioning human.	[01:18]
asciilifeform	mod6: btw if my terminology is confusing, please do not hesitate to suggest alternate	[01:18]
asciilifeform	in place of, e.g., descendant, antecedent, etc	[01:19]
mod6	no, not at all. it is accurate in my opinion	[01:19]
asciilifeform	other than various fixes / cleanups, the 1 thing i still wanna add to 'v' is file histories	[01:19]
asciilifeform	e.g.,	[01:19]
asciilifeform	./v.py patches h foo/bitcoin/src/main.cpp	[01:20]
mod6	i know nothing of python... although from reading your code, i'm starting to grasp it.	[01:20]
asciilifeform	and dumps changed, in topo-order, with signators	[01:20]
asciilifeform	*changes	[01:20]
asciilifeform	btw mod6 does the 'o' command make sense?	[01:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2965 @ 0.00068137 = 2.0203 BTC [-]	[01:23]
asciilifeform	(as in, can you guess, without explanation, why i included it)	[01:23]
mod6	the origin cmd is pretty neat too	[01:23]
asciilifeform	it is mainly because my disk is littered with 1,001 copies of therealbitcoin tree	[01:23]
asciilifeform	from various stages of vivisection	[01:24]
asciilifeform	some corresponding to a released patch set, others not	[01:24]
asciilifeform	and it is helpful to litmus-test these and place where (if anywhere) they belong	[01:24]
asciilifeform	unrelatedly,	[01:25]
asciilifeform	the one other thing i neglected to explain anywhere is how to make the wot	[01:25]
asciilifeform	place pubkeys in the dir (defaults to home dir, subdir .wot) and, importantly,	[01:25]
asciilifeform	nicknames end up being the respective filename-sans-extension.	[01:26]
asciilifeform	as shown in the demo tarball.	[01:26]
asciilifeform	(there is literally no other place 'v' could possibly learn them..)	[01:26]
mod6	sure. i was able to figure that out straight off np. helped by having a few bundled up in v99/wot/	[01:26]
asciilifeform	i think this is literally all.	[01:26]
mod6	but yeah, i just `mkdir -p ~/.seals ~/.wot` and dropped the sigs into ~/.seals and the pub keys in ~/.wot and off it went.	[01:27]
asciilifeform	now all we need is to persuade jurov to set up something like 'rsync' on his box	[01:28]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17549 @ 0.00068108 = 11.9523 BTC [-] {3}	[01:28]
mod6	i saw punkman say something about dropping in a python-gnupg side-by-side with V -- i've gotta try that yet. might be cool for an airgap box or something.	[01:28]
asciilifeform	mod6: wai wat	[01:28]
asciilifeform	mod6: 'v' doesn't do crypto	[01:28]
asciilifeform	doesn't need an airgap	[01:28]
BingoBoingo	comment spam lol, "own datacenter" uses aws http://dpaste.com/0F4ATGC	[01:28]
mod6	no no.	[01:28]
assbot	dpaste: 0F4ATGC ... ( http://bit.ly/1JItkyj )	[01:28]
asciilifeform	(you can't sign with it)	[01:28]
mod6	i know.	[01:29]
mod6	i guess i don't mean to confuse.. was just thinking about it in the capacity where a stripped down box is being used.	[01:29]
asciilifeform	oh and if it isn't clear, python-gnupg just shell-callouts to ordinary gpg.	[01:29]
mod6	oh it's just a wrapper?	[01:30]
asciilifeform	aha	[01:30]
asciilifeform	no gpg-compatible anything of any other kind exists anywhere.	[01:30]
asciilifeform	(see thread)	[01:30]
mod6	anyway, thanks for putting all this together!	[01:31]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-08-2015#1250164 << thread	[01:31]
assbot	Logged on 24-08-2015 15:42:03; asciilifeform: thing to realize is that gpg was written to be maximally un-librarifiable. like gcc.	[01:31]
mod6	and for taking the time to explain some of it to me.	[01:31]
asciilifeform	mod6: yw	[01:31]
asciilifeform	my hope is that it means hanbot can go back to writing fiction	[01:31]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-08-2015#1250164 << thread << thx. ya, i recall this. long road ahead haha.	[01:32]
assbot	Logged on 24-08-2015 15:42:03; asciilifeform: thing to realize is that gpg was written to be maximally un-librarifiable. like gcc.	[01:32]
asciilifeform	rather than roasting in the hell of figuring my patch topology out with a pencil	[01:32]
asciilifeform	'v' is a double-edged sword, however, i must say, in that it makes it possible to build therealbitcoin without reading patches or giving a fuck	[01:33]
asciilifeform	which was really not the case before, despite well-intentioned efforts of the people here at making automatic build scripts, etc	[01:33]
phf	i spent some time going through exercise of getting rid of main in gnupg 1.*, compiling it into a dynamic library, loading into a lisp and calling c functions through ffi. it's doable, but yeah environment very hostile to librarification: often times reporting is done only as a printf, with no status codes, so impossible to do simple (= (ffi-call...) 0) without unpacking the c level function	[01:33]
mod6	fair assesment there. but, i think it's great, and clean, and "works". responsibility is on the signer to read what they sign. same in life.	[01:33]
asciilifeform	phf: ffi with c crud is a nightmare always and everywhere	[01:34]
asciilifeform	none of it has any notion of intelligent error handling, or restarts, or, or...	[01:34]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[01:36]
phf	sure, but i did some large scale projects using ffi (including things like modifying arrays on heap from inside c libraries), so i don't think it's necessarily dead end. just that gnupg doesn't make it easy at all and requires basically full environment scaffolding before you can do anything useful	[01:36]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> rather than roasting in the hell of figuring my patch topology out with a pencil << imagine how much easier it is now for a person to literally pick a place in the flow and patch directly to it. instead of wading through mutliated corpses trying to find the least smelly ones.	[01:36]
phf	which wouldn't be a problem in a traditional c code, but in case of gnupg half of the code seems to have hidden, side channel concerns, that i just don't have yet enough experience in practical crypto to grok	[01:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00068045 = 15.7184 BTC [-] {3}	[01:38]
phf	for example this code http://paste.lisp.org/display/154625 validates signatures (using ccl's ffi generator and slightly patched gnupg 1.4.19), but on failure verify_signature either prints to stdout, with no notable return code or sometimes exit(...)'s the whole process	[01:43]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JIvo9D )	[01:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51950 @ 0.00067731 = 35.1863 BTC [-] {5}	[01:46]
mod6	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-September/000162.html	[01:48]
assbot	[BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIvXjD )	[01:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105413 @ 0.00067078 = 70.7089 BTC [-] {8}	[01:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16122 @ 0.00066132 = 10.6618 BTC [-]	[01:51]
BingoBoingo	https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/010798.html	[01:53]
assbot	[bitcoin-dev] AT&T has effectively banned Bitcoin nodes by closing port 8333 via a hidden firewall in the cable box ... ( http://bit.ly/1JIwQce )	[01:53]
BingoBoingo	spam started	[01:56]
BingoBoingo	https://btc.blockr.io/address/info/1111111111111111111114oLvT2	[01:56]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JItgTJ )	[01:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.0006852 = 10.7919 BTC [+] {3}	[02:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9567 @ 0.00066618 = 6.3733 BTC [-]	[02:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20083 @ 0.00066627 = 13.3807 BTC [+] {2}	[02:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00067449 = 8.9033 BTC [+]	[02:14]
*	funkenstein_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[02:18]
*	donpillou (~donpillou@usve8041.vserver.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:18]
*	laurita (~laurita@94.242.255.66) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22364 @ 0.00067449 = 15.0843 BTC [+]	[02:26]
BingoBoingo	!up laurita	[02:26]
*	assbot gives voice to laurita	[02:26]
BingoBoingo	!up donpillou	[02:26]
*	assbot gives voice to donpillou	[02:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30965 @ 0.00068325 = 21.1568 BTC [+] {5}	[02:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13654 @ 0.00066439 = 9.0716 BTC [-] {4}	[02:34]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[02:46]
gribble	Current Blocks: 372468 \| Current Difficulty: 5.425663032788996E10 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 372959 \| Next Difficulty In: 491 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes, and 37 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[02:46]
*	assbot removes voice from laurita	[02:56]
*	assbot removes voice from donpillou	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	'v' is a double-edged sword, however, i must say, in that it makes it possible to build therealbitcoin without reading patches or giving a fuck << blind trust is only a problem to the blind trustor.	[03:11]
mircea_popescu	!up laurita	[03:13]
-assbot-	You voiced laurita for 30 minutes.	[03:13]
*	assbot gives voice to laurita	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the "blocking ports" bs has been going on for nigh on 20 years now.	[03:15]
BingoBoingo	Sure	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, the "bitcoin uses port 8333" thing is retarded.	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin should use any arbitrary port, including 80	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	this notion where we respect ~anything~ has got to go.	[03:16]
mircea_popescu	BODB.	[03:17]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin over dead bodies.	[03:17]
*	samO__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[03:17]
*	hanbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[03:18]
BingoBoingo	prolly skip port 25 though, MSExChange servers pissing spam everywhere prolly ruined that one	[03:27]
*	assbot removes voice from laurita	[03:44]
*	laurita (~laurita@94.242.255.66) has left #bitcoin-assets	[03:45]
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BingoBoingo	;;later tell mircea_popescu Also it looks like Kim kinda went Monero... https://slimgur.com/images/2015/08/31/3a08dc9a038e0c30bb568b48d0f758cd.jpg	[03:52]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[03:52]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MZlSnW )	[03:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3838 @ 0.00056039 = 2.1508 BTC [-]	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	dude she's a tank	[04:08]
BingoBoingo	Inflation is a bitch	[04:09]
fluffypony	BingoBoingo: you'd have to complain to the author of the OpenAES library :)	[04:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00056671 = 12.2976 BTC [+] {2}	[04:11]
BingoBoingo	So much #ifdef, seeding with time and process id	[04:11]
fluffypony	that's an oaes thing	[04:11]
fluffypony	I just fixed it to use gettimeofday instead of ftime on BSD	[04:11]
*	mircea_popescu wouldn't feel safe fucking kim w/o a coupla wrestler wingmen ready to tag.	[04:14]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Time machine could also work	[04:15]
BingoBoingo	fluffypony: Seriously though all the ifdefs scattered everywhere	[04:16]
fluffypony	BingoBoingo: well it's either that or we have to refactor every exception into functions_windows.cpp / functions_bsd.cpp / functions_linux.cpp etc., which would make the code splintered and extremely hard to work with	[04:18]
BingoBoingo	The way everything is organized now is also very hard to work with. cmake scattered all over every directory	[04:25]
fluffypony	BingoBoingo: that's a CMake best practices thing, the guy that did that (Ben Boeckel) is one of the CMake developers	[04:27]
BingoBoingo	But is cmake itself a good thing?	[04:28]
fluffypony	yes very much	[04:28]
fluffypony	autoconf is horrible	[04:28]
BingoBoingo	what about just... make	[04:28]
fluffypony	too many disparate environments for that	[04:29]
BingoBoingo	Even qt.pro as implemented in bitcoin, for people who still use it that way, seems more organized	[04:30]
cazalla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-08-2015#1257612 <<< almost clicked off while waiting but figured alf would not link such a thing without providing the goods.. did not disappoint	[04:31]
assbot	Logged on 31-08-2015 20:55:11; ascii_field: http://i.imgur.com/ibUaHil.gifv << sapping practice.	[04:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.00055048 = 8.7526 BTC [-]	[04:36]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[04:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100000 @ 0.00063841 = 63.841 BTC [+] {9}	[04:52]
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BingoBoingo	In the world of license mess http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/the-peculiar-libretunnel-situation	[05:06]
assbot	the peculiar libretunnel situation ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5Anqr )	[05:06]
punkman	BingoBoingo: I dunno why anyone humors the license derps	[05:20]
BingoBoingo	Neither do I, but they are so easy to troll	[05:21]
shinohai	;;later tell trinque despite me being the most "Special Ed" of anyone here, persistence paid off: http://i.imgur.com/3xAoZTN.png?1	[05:21]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[05:21]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1NUuCfK )	[05:21]
*	assbot gives voice to btcdrak	[05:21]
btcdrak	No surprises here then, common VCs backing BIP101 http://qntra.net/2015/08/bip-101-syndicate-shares-fiat-ties-opposition-to-actual-bitcoin/	[05:22]
assbot	BIP-101 Syndicate Shares Fiat Ties, Opposition to Actual Bitcoin \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1NUuFbw )	[05:22]
BingoBoingo	None at all.	[05:23]
shinohai	Because as we say in the South, "Backdoor guests are best".	[05:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00063391 = 11.4104 BTC [-]	[05:25]
shinohai	not really	[05:25]
mircea_popescu	punkman well some people still persist in this vc fairytale/pipedream	[05:26]
mircea_popescu	they'll sell their worthless startup for billions and so forth, if only they respect licenses and never say bad things about fat people or something	[05:27]
BingoBoingo	!b 2	[05:27]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3VTC7N2.txt )	[05:27]
shinohai	Nice article BingoBoingo All you need to do now is drop it off in r/darknetmarkets and a few .onion forums, there goes your BIP101 support	[05:28]
cazalla	deedbot- http://qntra.net/0815.txt	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the ridiculous pretense that openssl is still even a thing at all.	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	what next, cisco still sells routers ?	[05:30]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[05:30]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) August 2015 Statement - http://qntra.net/2015/09/qntra-s-qntr-august-2015-statement/	[05:30]
BingoBoingo	shinohai: Why would I ever participate in discussions there. http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/25/a-law-enforcement-encounter-if-you-ran-a-bitcoin-related-service-before-the-thing-hit-100-you-prolly-ought-to-be-somewhat-concerned-andor-prepared/	[05:30]
assbot	A Law Enforcement Encounter: If you ran a Bitcoin related service before the thing hit $100 you prolly ought to be somewhat concerned and/or prepared \| Bingo Blog	[05:30]
shinohai	Read that one.	[05:30]
shinohai	Jees, how hard are you being watched?	[05:31]
BingoBoingo	Well, If I know the FBI/Treasury/WTFObolaBBQ is watching why would I even create an opportunity to be framed as a person looking to participate in drug commerce?	[05:31]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://31.media.tumblr.com/1aa153796752dbb8d067f547d5944174/tumblr_mzxmu4NJkS1qaoeoqo6_r2_400.gif	[05:32]
shinohai	morning exercise.	[05:39]
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mircea_popescu	chick's great, and check out how deeply she bothers the two other insecure ones.	[05:41]
mircea_popescu	jurov : qntra shares added.	[05:48]
*	wywialm (~mw@unaffiliated/wywialm) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:52]
deedbot-	[Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) August 2015 Statement - http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-august-2015-statement/	[06:03]
jurov	"SERENISSIMAFAT12" kek	[06:12]
jurov	asciilifeform: your server serves it as "Content-Type text/plain"	[06:13]
mircea_popescu	whassat ?	[06:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00067086 = 9.8616 BTC [+]	[06:32]
shinohai	https://i.imgur.com/AYCbrqP.jpg <<	[06:32]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1hQoAB6 )	[06:32]
cazalla	shame about those eyebrows but still	[06:35]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[14:25]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[14:25]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[14:25]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[14:25]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field eh ffs.	[14:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40004 @ 0.00054659 = 21.8658 BTC [+]	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field well, sent note pointing out that if it happens again that's it for that box. i'm not so convinced it'll do anything. consequently... prep to move it, i guess. got any suggestions of location ?	[14:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31717 @ 0.00054499 = 17.2854 BTC [-] {4}	[14:31]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: i am ready to move it. but can't think of, yet, a good place to move it ~to~	[14:31]
ascii_field	that wouldn't be ruinously expensive, poorly jurisdictioned, or both.	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	me either.	[14:31]
BingoBoingo	not a ~real~ recession, those don't happen in the biggest bestest firstest americas << Testnet Americans	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	what's your idea of ruinous ?	[14:32]
ascii_field	more than a coin a mo. or close.	[14:32]
ascii_field	imho	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	not the end of the world.	[14:33]
ascii_field	but this is really for mircea_popescu to decide, given as he supplied this item as 'pro bono'	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	yeah i dun see a problem paying 1-1.5 for this. provided the box is decent and the dc unretarded, i'd take it.	[14:33]
ascii_field	i would dare to suggest that the subcontract should include a stipulation that >1 unsanctioned reset per year == termination	[14:34]
mircea_popescu	i prefer the more broad "unretarded"	[14:35]
ascii_field	diametric informed me that his bisp box has not experienced resets...	[14:35]
mircea_popescu	they're right next to each other, amusingly enough.	[14:36]
ascii_field	i think this clinches it	[14:36]
ascii_field	little goblins hang around specifically dulap	[14:36]
*	mircea_popescu inquires with online webexperts	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	online webexperts assure me that this is a coincidence and also was published before by a scientist somewhere.	[14:37]
BingoBoingo	Dulap probably needs a datacenter with dogs on the floow	[14:37]
ascii_field	l0lz	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field i think you should apologize before making fool of self kthx.	[14:37]
BingoBoingo	*floor	[14:37]
ascii_field	BingoBoingo: i'd settle for a welded 1u with internal 12v battery	[14:37]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: clearly, aha	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field how long's your lease where you're now ?	[14:38]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: my earthly carcass ?	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	yes	[14:38]
ascii_field	~10 mo	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	wtf's wrong with you.	[14:39]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: traditional lease in this part of the world, for human habitation, is 1y	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	nuts.	[14:39]
ascii_field	state of maryland requires vendor to offer 2y	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	i won't even discuss it for less than 3 years.	[14:39]
ascii_field	business leases are typically 3-5	[14:39]
mircea_popescu	anyway, you still got that spiffy ups ?	[14:39]
ascii_field	aha	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	how about you pick out a system, i buy it, and then you run nsa from home.	[14:40]
ascii_field	no static ip	[14:40]
ascii_field	and can't get.	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	it'll be cheaper than paying a coin a month for 10 months i'm sure, and we also get the added advantage that we put all the eggs in your basket	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	heh so get a vps bridge	[14:40]
jurov	ANN: coinbr had to be shut down and will likely stay for several days till i fix the mess.	[14:41]
jurov	ANN: all funds are there, it just got nonsensical answers from mpex	[14:41]
punkman	TARFUN	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	well i never!	[14:41]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: i did think about this, earlier; principal obstacle is the provision of adequate cooling in my sorry hovel. but in the absence of a better idea, will have to resort to this	[14:43]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[14:43]
punkman	http://www.datacentermap.com/dr-congo/kinshasa/gbsdc1.html	[14:43]
assbot	GBSDC1 - Data Center ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu9m2I )	[14:43]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[14:44]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[14:44]
ascii_field	punkman: l0l!	[14:44]
ascii_field	punkman: yours ?	[14:44]
trinque	alright, when do we buy a cruise ship?	[14:44]
trinque	the scientologists have this figured out	[14:44]
ascii_field	dirigible.	[14:45]
punkman	unfortunately, I don't yet own a datacenter in the Congo	[14:45]
ascii_field	aw.	[14:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189059 @ 0.00061087 = 115.4905 BTC [+] {15}	[14:46]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	congo, detroit, what the hell's the difference.	[14:46]
pete_dushenski	jurov thanks for the update :)	[14:47]
ascii_field	big difference	[14:47]
ascii_field	usg won't diddle in the congo	[14:47]
pete_dushenski	http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2015/09/01/102963213-google.530x298.jpg?v=1441123832 << new usgoogle logo	[14:47]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Vu9EH0 )	[14:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34250 @ 0.00066404 = 22.7434 BTC [+] {2}	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	orly ?	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	how exactly is congo a sovereign again ?	[14:48]
ascii_field	it isn't. just a sheepskin not worth the tanning	[14:48]
ascii_field	typically	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	...	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	you've never been to africa have you.	[14:48]
ascii_field	must confess that i have not.	[14:49]
ascii_field	not itching to, either	[14:49]
mircea_popescu	your idea is amply divergent from reality. do you know WHO is itching to go ?	[14:49]
mircea_popescu	and lord it over the well hung locals ?	[14:49]
mircea_popescu	disfigured 50yo "socialites" from florida.	[14:49]
ascii_field	chinese?	[14:49]
ascii_field	hm	[14:49]
trinque	I hear Christian "missionaries" do very well in Africa	[14:49]
mircea_popescu	place's crawling with "whornorary ambassadors" and whatnot	[14:50]
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mircea_popescu	ascii_field why aren't you renting on a llc anyway ?	[14:52]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: residential zone	[14:53]
ascii_field	we have banana republic here, recall.	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	so what if it is a residential zone ?!	[14:53]
ascii_field	laws of the monkeys proclaim, must stand upside-down on head on odd-numbered tuesdays	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	i dun get it.	[14:54]
ascii_field	if found to run business in residential zone, will HAve Pr0blemz	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	you don't run any business.	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	your company rents a place from some other company to crimp the ceo (ie, you)	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	perfectly legal.	[14:54]
ascii_field	then have problem with isp:	[14:54]
ascii_field	must buy 'business line'	[14:54]
ascii_field	4x cost.	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	actually a honest signal to all the twerps involved not to mess around.	[14:55]
ascii_field	long list of this idiocy	[14:55]
ascii_field	and it all costs, costs.	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field 4x 40 bucks ? so ? why do you care ? tax deductible.	[14:55]
ascii_field	100+	[14:55]
ascii_field	brb, eating food	[14:55]
trinque	yeah dude, gotta run everything through an llc	[14:55]
trinque	haven't you seen Arrested Development?	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	what's that ?	[14:55]
trinque	ok comedy series on bezzleland's mcmansion industry	[14:56]
mircea_popescu	ah	[14:56]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field you're a smart kid, do the math. or better yet, have the girl do the math.	[14:57]
mircea_popescu	i'm not about to go all crazy here and suggest you actually hire an expert, you've not been buying bitcoin for long enough yet.	[14:57]
mircea_popescu	yes you pay more for utilities, but not THAT much more and in general actually less than what the tax would have cost you, and you get to deduce the rent too, and it never really ends.	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	the appearance of "costs" is what's known in poker as a trap. to keep the fucktards out. so dun be a fucktard, you can think, there's no rule that you may only think about coding or something. think all through, the same way, everywhere.	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	don't credit newspapers just because they're newspapers when you know in your own field what a shitfest they are ; don't expect the laws etc are anythig but badly written, poorly maintained code full of holes. as reverse-engineerable as anything else.	[14:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00066628 = 10.8271 BTC [+] {3}	[14:59]
*	chetty (~chet@unaffiliated/chetty) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:59]
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mircea_popescu	which one ?	[15:09]
trinque	I am already offended by this site's loading screen	[15:10]
trinque	which is stuck on 0%	[15:10]
trinque	what is this, 90s flash?	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	"IS THE WORLD'S FIRST AND LARGEST"	[15:10]
trinque	lol	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	oddly enough it loads for me.	[15:10]
trinque	now stuck on 99%	[15:10]
trinque	mmyeah I knew what this site was gonna look like.	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	why the fuck is this "casey research ring my scam bell"	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	o wait.	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	;;google trilema DOUG CASEY	[15:12]
gribble	So the Dollar Vigilante scam ring is going to jail. on Trilema - A blog ...: ; Doug Casey \| Casey Research: ; Totally Incorrect - Doug Casey's New Book - Casey Research:	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	herp.	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	when are people going to learn that it doesn't wash.	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/9866451ba59203a02e9931a467016546/tumblr_nr6nndTs371u6xnhgo1_500.gif	[15:14]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Vuc9cb )	[15:14]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[15:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00066766 = 4.3064 BTC [+]	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258346 << if you conceive it in the butt, you carry it in the butt!	[15:23]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 09:51:37; cazalla: punkman, she is carrying the child in her ass?	[15:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00066785 = 28.3836 BTC [+] {2}	[15:23]
shinohai	https://i.imgur.com/EDKCLyy.jpg	[15:24]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1NVL5k7 )	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258371 << or rotten.	[15:25]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 11:07:45; shinohai: Perhaps he could be described as a member of the species whose brain has not yet fully evolved.	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	""According to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), between 2011 and 2020, more than 140 million girls will become child brides. Furthermore, of the 140 million girls who will marry before the age of 18, 50 million will be under the age of 15." << note how little the agenda has to do with the purely fabricated news story.	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	convenient enough that there's nobody in english speaking places reading the yemenite newspapers about how "child dies at hands of doctor" or similar nonsense.	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	"oh, doctoring is a privileged activity, if some people die that's just not mentioned ; a functioning society is pointedly not a privileged activity, if anyone dies we'll put it in the newspaper".	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck is this even.	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	" Most pro age-limit organizations agree that 18 should be the legal age for marriage." << check it out, voting works NOW.	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	the fact that most of the world agrees girls can marry once they can walk, that doesn't count.	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	but if the whorbassadors i ncongo agree the age should be 18, then hey, DEMOCRACY!!11	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	they had a consensus.	[15:28]
BingoBoingo	lulz https://bitcoinmagazine.com/21809/open-letter-bitcoin-community-developers/	[15:33]
assbot	An Open Letter to the Bitcoin Community from the Developers – Bitcoin Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vue54v )	[15:33]
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mats	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258565 pls no	[15:37]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 17:38:44; jurov: ANN: coinbr had to be shut down and will likely stay for several days till i fix the mess.	[15:37]
BingoBoingo	Corn uppdate http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/midwest-corn-goes-from-soaked-to-choked/article_46179f53-7983-5625-8c51-3a6e1804306b.html	[15:37]
assbot	Midwest corn goes from soaked to choked : Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1VueFz6 )	[15:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.000665 = 10.0415 BTC [-]	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	dat xerox bug.	[15:40]
*	mircea_popescu is impressed with dkriesel	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258408 << how about first let the usg spend its resources on ultimately useless mining farm neh	[15:42]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 14:24:44; asciilifeform: imho it is not actually possible to replace it with ~provably equivalent~ item.	[15:42]
BingoBoingo	http://thesouthern.com/news/local/dozens-rally-in-harrisburg-to-support-confederate-flag/article_dce53cb2-dc9f-565f-9af6-20d1854e629e.html	[15:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Vuf2de )	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258442 << apparently "standard" means "common" in the nca parlance nao.	[15:43]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 15:45:36; trinque: english... will it blend?	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	because it really makes one sleep better at night, to see teh crime fightin' experts couldn't find someone older about 13 or so to write their writings.	[15:44]
trinque	glad to see the PA cousin-fuckers love the rebel flag	[15:44]
trinque	what a shithole of a state.	[15:44]
BingoBoingo	trinque: Nah, Harrisburg Illinois	[15:45]
trinque	ah my mistake	[15:45]
trinque	says Pennsylvania in the tags	[15:45]
BingoBoingo	Probably because of retarded auto-tagging	[15:46]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[15:47]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:47]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258630 << thing is, there ~is~ upfront cost, and from where exactly am i to come up with it ?	[15:49]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 17:56:08; mircea_popescu: the appearance of "costs" is what's known in poker as a trap. to keep the fucktards out. so dun be a fucktard, you can think, there's no rule that you may only think about coding or something. think all through, the same way, everywhere.	[15:49]
trinque	registering an llc is like 300 bucks	[15:50]
trinque	depending on the state	[15:50]
ascii_field	trinque: every beggar in town has an llc	[15:50]
ascii_field	i'm talking about the rest of it	[15:50]
trinque	right, and they're taking deductions on goddamn everythig	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	what rest ?	[15:50]
ascii_field	the 'businessized' version of everything	[15:50]
trinque	*thing	[15:50]
ascii_field	isp, additional taxations, accounting	[15:50]
ascii_field	lawyers.	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	alfie stop telling yourself stories and read the book of nature instead.	[15:50]
ascii_field	also mircea_popescu appears to have forgotten about mr stack and his programmatory llc ?	[15:53]
trinque	gonna die anyway, why not act tactically til then?	[15:54]
ascii_field	trinque: this means what ?	[15:54]
*	mike_c has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field that was entirely a different story. he was trying to organise his coding income through a llc.	[15:54]
trinque	take every deduction you can, and so on.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	you are trying to organise your ~expenditure~	[15:54]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: precisely!	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	not precisely at all.	[15:54]
trinque	your side projects are this llc. not your job	[15:55]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: if i did not put my income through it, then it is a plain tax shelter and this lasts precisely five seconds if anyone so much as farts on it	[15:55]
ascii_field	where i live, at my weight class.	[15:55]
trinque	dude nobody says your side business has to be profitable	[15:55]
trinque	there wouldn't be any if that were the case.	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	im telling you, whether you'll like it or not : this conversation is to me indistinguishable from conversation with blondy who has decided "she doesn't have a math head". meanwhile she has exceptionally keen eye for shoes, to a degree most math heads could not keep up.	[15:55]
ascii_field	trinque: understand what an llc without a dime of income or so much as threatening to earn any, looks like ?	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	you're the fucking same thing in a different color scheme already!	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	the same head that yields beautiful code also yields legal arguments, yo!	[15:56]
ascii_field	consider that i actually operate an llc (with partner) since '10, and not speaking entirely from my arse	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	reality isn't like, you pick if to be an archer or a tank like fucking wow.	[15:56]
trinque	sure, you're not the only one.	[15:56]
trinque	who said "not a dime"	[15:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23410 @ 0.00066979 = 15.6798 BTC [+] {2}	[15:56]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: no but reality means that if i have to spend two weeks appearing in a courtroom, for whatever reason, i starve.	[15:56]
trinque	but if you buy computers, it's an expense. pipe to house? expense.	[15:56]
trinque	etc	[15:56]
*	funkenstein_ (~user@c-50-187-182-168.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	i'll tell you what it looks like : FUCKING COINBASE.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	and airbnb and you fucking name it.,	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	bejesus.,	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	WHY do you think they keep doing those, huh ?	[15:57]
ascii_field	coinbase is blessed by his lizard majesty.	[15:57]
ascii_field	ditto airbnob	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	they're exactly your stage +2. "since we gotta have all these llcs anyway, hopw about we derp more"	[15:57]
ascii_field	quod licet jovis...	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	if this isn't proof that people pick their life, nothing is.	[15:58]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[15:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3140 @ 0.00067286 = 2.1128 BTC [+]	[16:01]
*	assbot gives voice to mike_c	[16:02]
mike_c	mod6, ben_vulpes: does the foundation have any ideological opinions on something like trac?	[16:02]
trinque	would not interface with V for one	[16:03]
ascii_field	^	[16:03]
*	rdymac has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[16:03]
mike_c	hm. I was thinking for issue tracking.	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	hes got to use something to make the graphs	[16:03]
ascii_field	trac iirc is a www-based bug ticketing thing ?	[16:04]
trinque	yep	[16:04]
mike_c	yeah. like bugzilla but newer with bells.	[16:04]
mike_c	i don't care a whit for it specifically, more for some kind of issue tracking generally.	[16:04]
mike_c	trilema job board only goes so far.	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	not very far at that.	[16:05]
trinque	betcha not a single person did this right either, as with VCS	[16:05]
*	mircea_popescu is still waiting for someone to murder get a freelancer with	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	trinque no, the market is an utter shitmess.	[16:05]
ascii_field	i recall this from conf2 ?	[16:05]
trinque	thing about trac is it's exactly this "cram it all into our project" mentality	[16:05]
mike_c	you know, ascii says 'someone should add file history to V' and I think, yeah, that is much needed and I could bang it out quickly	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	i've been having my eye on this yeah	[16:05]
mike_c	and etc., etc.	[16:06]
trinque	I could see V being applied to this problem too	[16:06]
trinque	where proposals are signed	[16:06]
ascii_field	mike_c: please don't hesitate to experiment with 'v'	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	trinque not sure why you'd need chaining etc	[16:06]
mike_c	I will, but scattered todo lists in various places, feels like it needs a little project management.	[16:06]
phf	there lies the road to hell	[16:07]
trinque	mircea_popescu: maybe not; thought was you patch in new textfiles into some directory structure	[16:07]
trinque	and perhaps my idea extends yours	[16:07]
mike_c	phf: like most things, not if done well	[16:07]
trinque	it's just V-wiki	[16:07]
trinque	and at that, maybe it's a docs folder in the actual bitcoind project	[16:08]
phf	mike_c: "dianetics is not wrong, it's just that you're failing at apply it", aha ;)	[16:08]
mike_c	having a provable and validated package of code is important enough to have something like V. not sure tracking bugs needs to be so rigorous	[16:08]
ascii_field	i dare say this may be an example of the kind of thing one doesn't actually need unless already in a state of dire sin	[16:08]
mike_c	what, managaing a todo list?	[16:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62383 @ 0.000665 = 41.4847 BTC [-] {2}	[16:08]
ascii_field	not as such	[16:08]
ascii_field	but systems like 'trac'	[16:09]
trinque	hopefully V becomes an example of how problems ought to be approached around here.	[16:09]
trinque	damned precise approach to a single problem	[16:09]
trinque	trac's way in the other direction	[16:09]
ascii_field	'v' is for small groups of t3rr0r1stz who all quasi-know each other and share a wot	[16:09]
ascii_field	people like this imho do not need mechanized 'bug tracking' machinery	[16:09]
ascii_field	in fact, look at the people who ~do~ appear to need it. how much it helps them ?	[16:10]
mike_c	it helps. just because idiots use it doesn't mean it's not helpful.	[16:10]
mike_c	here's the problem - there are ~6 people who may work on V	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	trinque that spirit is right, but it can't become a "vchain technologee in your fridge" thing	[16:10]
mike_c	there are ~10 things that could/should be done	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field who says v is for that ?	[16:11]
mats	i am curious to know when 'yi yi zhi yi' progresses to 'yi fa yi yi	[16:11]
mike_c	who keeps track of who claims what?	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	no, v is the only correct solution to "windows update" problem.	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	ie, a mega system deployed by billions of people in a million different nooks and crannies	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	that's what v's for.	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	mike_c claim ? how you mean ?	[16:11]
ascii_field	mats: translation?	[16:12]
mike_c	just like someone claims something on your job board and you put their name on it	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	how about "people who don't know each other aren't working on the same software, no matter what they might think"	[16:12]
mike_c	so 3 out of the 6 people don't run off and do the same thing	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	why not ?	[16:12]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu has it	[16:12]
trinque	might not be a bad thing that they do all duplicate effort	[16:12]
trinque	say 3/4 suck	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	either they know each other so no problem, or they don't and so no problem space.	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	mike_c understand, there's no promise that V will result in even similar bitcoins.	[16:12]
mike_c	but "know each other" != "know what everyone is working on at all times"	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	in point of fact all the bitcoin-copy altcoins could just as well have run on v	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	all of them.	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	"use this signset to package ltc ; use this signset to package rippe" etc	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	mike_c my definition of "know each other" is, "they can navigate the who's doing what maze". that's the bar.	[16:14]
ascii_field	^^	[16:14]
mike_c	and the list of "what needs to be done"?	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	fits in head	[16:14]
mike_c	mhm. recite the todo list for V :D	[16:15]
trinque	or blog it	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	(that list MUST be kept. in one head, or a collection of heads approximable to one head.	[16:15]
trinque	not the list, but say you want to explain why you did something	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	if it is not, you will have rebuilt washington dc. you don't want that. dead 8yo girls from cunt explosion is much better.)	[16:15]
trinque	actually ML, not blog	[16:15]
phf	mike_c: there's a recent openbsd presentation that argues against claiming. their point is that the problem of duplicate effort is a lot rarer then lock grabs. and i must add duplicate effort always results in increased understanding if both solutions are analyzed	[16:15]
mike_c	locks only happen with mediocre and lower workers	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	phf the way "claiming" has to date worked in b-a has been as a gubernatorial function, mostly me encouraging/discouraging people from certain projects.	[16:16]
mike_c	who will not suffer wot penalty for not doing what they claimed	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	moderate success rate on former, low on later, soft sort of thing anyway.	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	and i think it's the only way to go.	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	in any case the concept of "democratic self management" is about as idiotic as it gets. like a one-legged chair.	[16:17]
mike_c	I for instance have worked things to 75% completion before locking to avoid stalling something.	[16:17]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9327 @ 0.0006587 = 6.1437 BTC [-] {2}	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_field	[16:18]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes.	[16:18]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:18]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[16:18]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:18]
ascii_field	jurov: colo where ?	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	mike_c incidentally the reason i won't recite a todo list for v (and deleted alf's proposed list) is specifically because we don't even understand yet fully its implication. bitcoin-like.	[16:20]
phf	!	[16:20]
mats	ascii_field: translates loosely to '[learning] the way of the barbarians to control barbarians'	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	which is how you end up with disputes like the one re scope above ( http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258788 )	[16:21]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 19:08:42; mircea_popescu: no, v is the only correct solution to "windows update" problem.	[16:21]
ascii_field	mats: yi yi [verb] yi ?	[16:21]
ascii_field	mats: and it always bothered me that the tonality is not attached to the pinyinization	[16:21]
ascii_field	(or is it normally, somehow?)	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	you can do tone ?	[16:21]
mike_c	perhaps I see it too simply. It is the way for me to get source code from people I designate as trusted.	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	mike_c so it is.	[16:22]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: i did most of a linguistics degree, can do certain things	[16:22]
mats	it is attached, my keyboard isn't setup: the three accents are associated with three of the four tones in pinyin	[16:22]
ascii_field	neato	[16:22]
mats	'zhi': govern	[16:22]
*	mircea_popescu sorely regrets his chinese disability.	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	jurov half a cage is what, 4u ?	[16:23]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-08-2015#1225685 << where, i think, 'v' begins	[16:25]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 14:26:47; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i once thought about placing antecedent hashes in patch headers	[16:25]
phf	mircea_popescu: i've come to appreciate the approach from observing it. one person who shapes the entire thing, and everyone else works with the given directions or else operates fully autonomously. people can still form subgroups for short term goals, but without imposing structure on the rest. etc. etc.	[16:25]
mats	'yǐ yí zhì yí' is the pinyin	[16:25]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225073 << or here.	[16:25]
assbot	Logged on 05-08-2015 03:55:05; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list.	[16:25]
assbot	Logged on 31-05-2015 22:36:03; jurov: I personally got only an offer to share a rack with 4x100MBit(can be upgraded to giga) and 4xIPv4 for 500 euro/mo	[16:26]
phf	observing it here that is	[16:26]
ascii_field	jurov: and if it starts rebooting ?	[16:26]
shinohai	http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/watch-florida-pastor-says-women-should-greet-their-husbands-looking-spiffed-up-with-a-hot-meal-waiting/ XD	[16:27]
assbot	WATCH: Florida pastor says women should greet their husbands looking ‘spiffed up’ with a hot meal waiting ... ( http://bit.ly/1fTBaNP )	[16:27]
mike_c	trac is opensource. I bet I could integrate V.	[16:28]
ascii_field	mike_c: the beauty of 'v' is that no server, as such, is needed	[16:28]
ascii_field	just a place to park the latest stuff	[16:28]
ascii_field	and if it is ever tampered in any way, becomes immediately apparent to everyone.	[16:28]
ascii_field	would this be true of a hypothetical 'bugtracker with v' ?	[16:29]
mike_c	Surely. But integrating V could allow for "this patch solved this problem"	[16:29]
mike_c	patches are signed, so I don't see why tampering wouldn't be evident.	[16:29]
ascii_field	and now we have unsigned text and a centralized place to pwn and track activity	[16:29]
mike_c	why unsigned?	[16:30]
ascii_field	because what, you will sign every comment? every stateful change, button click ?	[16:31]
mike_c	No, just every patch. I'll fiddle with it and see if anything interesting happens.	[16:31]
mike_c	ah, but i see your point. mailing list is signed, this wouldn't be.	[16:32]
ascii_field	precisely.	[16:32]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258848 << iirc a traditional cage is 42u.	[16:33]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 19:21:09; mircea_popescu: jurov half a cage is what, 4u ?	[16:33]
mike_c	perhaps then less is more. just a todo-list with open/closed and claimed/unclaimed. communication all stays on mailing list	[16:33]
phf	mike_c: do you have a todo list for bitcoind written somewhere? or for v?	[16:34]
ascii_field	phf: the one for 'v' can be found in my original posting of it on the ml	[16:34]
mike_c	no, neither does anyone else.	[16:34]
mike_c	ascii_field; but it's out of date and incomplete	[16:35]
ascii_field	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150831/v_429012f762de1faf81e97b14832c2a9098ec851b.py << here.	[16:35]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1fTC7pD )	[16:35]
ascii_field	and mike_c is right, it is not entirely current.	[16:35]
ascii_field	however, i am not convinced that merely following the conversation here is not bugtracky enough	[16:36]
ascii_field	it was plainly not enough to reconstruct patch flow, yes	[16:36]
ascii_field	but for 'who wants to do what', it ought to suffice imho	[16:36]
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mike_c	I think we may be close to the line.	[16:36]
mike_c	if not already over	[16:36]
ascii_field	mike_c: can you think of a time when two+ people ended up doing the same things?	[16:37]
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ascii_field	or, alternatively, failing to do anything on account of waiting	[16:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3973 @ 0.00067118 = 2.6666 BTC [+]	[16:37]
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mike_c	But I agree with your point about avoiding a lot of unsigned commentary	[16:37]
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mike_c	ascii_field: the locking thing is not the biggest thing to me, more the accurate list of things that could/should be done.	[16:38]
mike_c	but to answer your question, yes.	[16:38]
phf	mike_c: ah but it's not true that nobody has those lists. ascii has one, i'm sure does mp, mod6 and ben_vulpes. i keep one too from reading the logs in a text file	[16:38]
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mircea_popescu	jurov so it would be ~600 bucks for 8u of space, then hire you to manage it and then buy the actual machines. as an upside you actually have physical access and will lock down the boxes ?	[16:39]
phf	i think at issue is not really collision, but getting someone else to construct a todo list for you..	[16:39]
mike_c	I don't think that issue is phrased quite right. I'm not looking to get someone else to do anything.	[16:39]
mircea_popescu	phf more layers to it but as a first approximation yea	[16:39]
mike_c	!gettrust phf	[16:41]
assbot	Trust relationship from user mike_c to user phf: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 3 connections. \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mike_c&to=phf \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/phf/	[16:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8466 @ 0.00065577 = 5.5517 BTC [-] {2}	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	another very important chunk of the story is the fallout from the "causes not purposes" philosophy. all b-a software exists because, not for, and this is HOW we end up with things like "well we now have this v-jewel, what's it for ?"	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	something that never happens ailleurs.	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field and a traditional wife cooks. what's your point.	[16:44]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: ah point is to explain that 'cage' is a kind of standard term, like 'barrel' in petro industry	[16:45]
ascii_field	for anyone who did not know	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	or, alternatively, failing to do anything on account of waiting << i could give some examples of this, but of dubious actual substance.	[16:46]
ascii_field	let's have example ?	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	barrel is two and a half gallons now.	[16:46]
ascii_field	even if tenuous	[16:46]
ascii_field	l0lwat	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	o you didn't know ? grew upwards in larger size from previous.	[16:46]
ascii_field	http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=40+rods+per+hogshead+in+mpg	[16:47]
assbot	40 rods per hogshead in mpg - Wolfram\|Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1fTDc0z )	[16:47]
ascii_field	'in my days we got forty rods to the hog's head and we loved it!!'	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	anyway, iirc the french kid that was going to do one of the versions of the job board thing got upset and left in part because iho he was waitinfg for me.	[16:47]
ascii_field	pankkake ?	[16:48]
ascii_field	(or was it pankakke ?)	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	right	[16:48]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	am i the only one getting spam from people trying to push blog-on-app "solutions" ?	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	that's fucking exactly what trilema needs, an annoying dinger on people's phones ffs.	[16:49]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[16:50]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	jurov but to be perfectly clear, this is a deal where you physically have access to the boxes in question and nobody else touches them	[16:50]
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ascii_field	jurov: if this were me, and here in this town, i would set up the batteries, tamper sensors, mains loggers, camera...	[16:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26115 @ 0.00065489 = 17.1025 BTC [-] {3}	[16:50]
ascii_field	but it is impractical to have it here	[16:50]
jurov	yes, i understand. if it can be locked only together with other boxen, will say so	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	huh /	[16:50]
ascii_field	jurov: may be worth asking if your cage can be an actual locking sarcophagus	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	and talking of 8 year olds, http://40.media.tumblr.com/a31c0e8f0f214b72c92bf13dba150d08/tumblr_nnvzxmtliK1rlxc3wo1_1280.jpg	[16:51]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1NLa36u )	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	jurov in general, worth asking to get very clear answers because in principle i would be interested, but i have to clearly know what i'm interested in.	[16:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29011 @ 0.00064788 = 18.7956 BTC [-] {2}	[16:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66135 @ 0.00064974 = 42.9706 BTC [+] {3}	[16:54]
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BingoBoingo	!up indiancandy1	[16:56]
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indiancandy1	hii	[16:56]
jurov	ofc will ask everything	[16:56]
jurov	but i suspect the features you ask and the price will diverge considerably :(	[16:58]
jurov	also, what if lizards reboot the machine remotely with magic packets?	[17:00]
jurov	what was the proximate cause ?	[17:01]
*	kakobrekla checks last bitbet comments and zomgwtfisthatdudethinking	[17:07]
ascii_field	jurov: kinda why i want to place arbitrary hardware of my own making in there	[17:09]
ben_vulpes	what's new, indiancandy1?	[17:10]
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ascii_field	let them magicpacket my fpga.	[17:13]
mike_c	kakobrekla: it's not even right..	[17:14]
mike_c	oh, nvm, those are payouts	[17:14]
mike_c	I guess he trusts you not to muck with his comment more than to get the payments right :)	[17:15]
jurov	ascii_field: you relish in impossible requirements, don't you? i just that ... palpable improvement over some box no one in the wot ever saw, is possible	[17:15]
ascii_field	jurov: colo is impossible now ?	[17:16]
ascii_field	expensive, yes	[17:16]
ascii_field	but impossible ?	[17:16]
jurov	yes i meant at that price	[17:16]
ascii_field	now price - possibly	[17:17]
jurov	and the juxtaposition of you doing it all personally and it being not in the north america	[17:17]
ascii_field	certainly 2btc doesn't buy so much as a parking space here where ~i~ live	[17:17]
ascii_field	jurov: well yes, i will not be doing it personally, unfortunately	[17:17]
ascii_field	so much of what imho needs to be done, cannot be done.	[17:17]
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thestringpuller	ascii_field: so much of what imho needs to be done, cannot be done. << doesn't this technically make it impossible?	[17:19]
mircea_popescu	jurov im not interested in what may happen as much as im interested in taking specific reasonable measures.	[17:19]
thestringpuller	with the circumstances	[17:19]
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mircea_popescu	and what exactly diverge you mean ? someone offered you half a rack for 500 except if you wish to touch it it's 19500 ?	[17:20]
jurov	no	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla no you know, he's saved it there because that way, if we do something fishy, the record will be left behind.	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	on our own site. in the comments section.	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	weblogic.	[17:21]
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jurov	if it turns out it's not possible to have lockable sub-compartment and must have whole vage for 1000 euro	[17:21]
jurov	*cage for	[17:21]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[17:21]
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mircea_popescu	jurov that'd be the least of my concerns.	[17:21]
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jurov	okay. another concern would be?	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	i'm spending a lot more than 1k / mo on hosting. in fact i spend more on servers living space than on women living space, for my sins ;/	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	just find out if you can put your hands on it and figure out if you want to.	[17:24]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258447 <<< because cool toy, aha.	[17:25]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 16:00:06; mats: conspiracy aside, probably just twenty years of glue and paperclips on a design nobody ever expected to be in production	[17:25]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258454 << you don't understand, it's fine when we do it. and the people we like. and poettering.	[17:25]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 16:07:54; ben_vulpes: and the 'open source world' went along with this for how long?	[17:26]
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mircea_popescu	"open source people" used to mean something, like "burning man attendant" used to mean something. now it means something else.	[17:26]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, basically stallman saw the problem of "if i release bitcoin then the twerps will get it and pretend to be using it, and then pretend to be improving on it and soon enough it will be indistinguishable from the sort of shit that it was made to kill. because the source of the shit drowning us is neither god nor the aliens nor unforseen circumstances - it's the lesser apes we insist on calling humans for no reason."	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	and his solution to it was a sort of "so i'll release just the tip"	[17:30]
mircea_popescu	because that works now, and such nonsense counts as strategic design.	[17:30]
ascii_field	not only that, but rms is not mircea_popescu and the thieves would cry 'stop thief', sue inventor for using own item, and win.	[17:30]
mircea_popescu	doesn't matter who one is, bad strat is bad strat.	[17:30]
mats	because search is broken i am having trouble discovering the revocation thread. anyone have a link, or would mind explaining implications for e.g. keyserver?	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	what revocation ?	[17:31]
mats	key revocation	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	explain what this means.	[17:32]
mats	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-05-2015#1132549	[17:32]
assbot	Logged on 15-05-2015 03:34:04; assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 21:44:05; ascii_field: i'm kinda curious why mircea_popescu considers a new key signed with a previous key to not be a logical continuation of the same identity. (is it because of the impossibility of hard-guaranteed revocation, as discussed in previous thread?)	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	the concept as intuited by gpg users is meaningless.	[17:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14343 @ 0.000665 = 9.5381 BTC [+]	[17:33]
mats	so, practically, i shouldn't even bother handling revocation signatures?	[17:33]
kakobrekla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258978 < but women arent in amsterdam?	[17:33]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 20:19:54; mircea_popescu: i'm spending a lot more than 1k / mo on hosting. in fact i spend more on servers living space than on women living space, for my sins ;/	[17:33]
mircea_popescu	i wouldn't fault you for ignoring them. i would fault you for "handling" an undefined concept in a weird way.	[17:33]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla on occasion they are.	[17:34]
kakobrekla	when the phuctor is down i guess.	[17:35]
ascii_field	iirc what mircea_popescu painstakingly explained in that old thread is that there is not, of course, a magical incantation which makes a 'revoked' key stop working	[17:35]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: it is presently not working other than for the display of old results. and will not work again until it gets 6+ weeks of uninterrupted mains current.	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	o.O that bad ?!	[17:36]
kakobrekla	there is too many or to few womenz in ams.	[17:36]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: yes, that bad	[17:37]
ascii_field	and if on 6wk - 1minute it resets, count again.	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	i thought it was a coupla weeks.	[17:37]
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ascii_field	my rough calculation is this.	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	lol well this will need a redesign then.	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	too damned vulnerable.	[17:37]
ascii_field	any redesign of that thing means rewrite 100%	[17:38]
ascii_field	because 1st step non-negotiably is to stop using sqlite.	[17:38]
kakobrekla	yeah you need aws	[17:38]
*	kakobrekla runs	[17:38]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: laugh, but that's where it lived for 1st year and a half	[17:38]
kakobrekla	i know!	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	stop using whatever it takes, but the idea is, if a power outage a season means it does no useful work worth the mention, we can't have it. because we no longer live in the world of our forefathers, where shit worked. even obama gets power interrupted once a year.	[17:39]
kakobrekla	once a year ends up at 90% utilization which is acceptable, no ?	[17:40]
ascii_field	thing is,	[17:40]
ascii_field	if i can put a 12v lead-acid cell in the 1u colo,	[17:40]
ascii_field	no interruptions	[17:40]
ascii_field	supposing the place is actually a data center and has ~some~ backup power	[17:40]
ascii_field	rather than multi-hour outages	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	if multi hour outages are what you need, multi hour outages are what you'll get.	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	software that's more friable than the hardware is a bad idea.	[17:41]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: even with optimal design, it can save the product of moduli perhaps once per 24h	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 6/52	[17:42]
gribble	0.115384615385	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla not even a single nine.	[17:42]
ascii_field	so every outage is 24h of lost cycles.	[17:42]
ascii_field	there is NO WAY to save it after every multiplication!	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field 24 hours is within range. even, maybe, a week.	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	six weeks is insanity.	[17:42]
ascii_field	so they will pull power every day	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	take it out of weeks and into days.	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	this i wish to see.	[17:43]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu did say, 'if you need x hour outages you will get'	[17:43]
kakobrekla	lulz	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	that, yes.	[17:43]
ascii_field	we already established that it is not affecting diametric's machine	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	why are you arguing with me!	[17:43]
ascii_field	so what, monkey tasked with pulling out my mains cord, his arms will get tired?	[17:43]
ascii_field	from pulling every hour ?	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	yeah. maybe i manage to shoot one.	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	somehow this reminded me of bofh	[17:44]
ascii_field	'solar flares!'	[17:44]
funkenstein_	phuctor@home	[17:44]
ascii_field	... he pulled new leaf from Excuse Calendar	[17:45]
ascii_field	funkenstein_: it is serial process	[17:45]
ascii_field	so no at home.	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	"I recognize that you don't want me to "change the subject" to refactoring, but I don't see this as a change of subject."	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	dude what the fuck is wrong with these people.	[17:47]
ascii_field	oh certainly i must rewrite it	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	"i will now say some words about your position after which we disregard it and replace it with mine. MAGIC!!1"	[17:47]
ascii_field	but do not have the time, and don't know when i will.	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field was quoting from a summary of that ast debate someone linked.	[17:48]
ascii_field	ah lol	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field can't it be made to dump the product to disk along with some state every however long ? once a day ?	[17:49]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: yes. and nothing whatsoever can happen when it dumps	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	a hack, obviously	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	no problem there.	[17:49]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:52]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[17:52]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:52]
ascii_field	this, too, means rewriting a good chunk of the thing.	[17:52]
ascii_field	and will happen.	[17:52]
ascii_field	at some point.	[17:52]
ascii_field	probably i ought to explain why.	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	"I was amazed that they were able to persuade RMS not to block the conversion to C++, and as the article points out, five years of plugins have not led to disaster;"	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	orly ? they have shown this ?	[17:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34185 @ 0.000665 = 22.733 BTC [+]	[17:53]
ascii_field	right now the factorizer and the web crud are entirely separate programs	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	to whom, and where the fuck was he looking	[17:53]
ascii_field	which do not communicate except via sharing a db.	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field so that db, can't it be snapshotted by a third thing ?	[17:54]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: not without stopping all of it	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	the design as described is good, and it should be db-replicated	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field go in as root, lock the db, dump it, unlock it.	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	what, someone'll complain ?	[17:54]
mats	http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gdp-economy-recession-1.3210790	[17:54]
assbot	Recession confirmed as Canada's GDP shrank in 2nd quarter - Business - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJU4TS )	[17:54]
ascii_field	mno, what happens is that the result is not consistent.	[17:55]
ascii_field	sqlite is a steaming pile of shit.	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	mats lucky that the us was corrected up from the previous corection of 4.5	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	to 9.18 or w/e	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field it can't be locked ?	[17:55]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: not effectively. recall, the two processes do not know about one another.	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	this is what db locks are for.	[17:56]
ascii_field	it was an ultra-minimal design, that cannot be changed at all without making 25x more complicated.	[17:56]
ascii_field	afaik.	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	what does your factorizer do if the db returns "wait" or w/e it returns if a lock's active	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	heck, the db shouldn't even complain, just hold the data	[17:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44500 @ 0.000665 = 29.5925 BTC [+]	[17:57]
jurov	you swear on bitcoind's bdb hardwired in, yet you apparently did the same with phuctor and sqlite? O.o	[18:01]
jurov	if it's sane python+sql, maybe two lines	[18:02]
ascii_field	jurov: appreciate, the thing was written in a coupla hours.	[18:03]
ascii_field	jurov: and i don't ~do~ www	[18:03]
jurov	i appreciate very much. but can't readily imagine this situation	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	iirc the code was release no ?	[18:03]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: the non-www part, yes	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	released*	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	db calls and all ?	[18:04]
ascii_field	1sec..	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	it occurs to me this;d be a fine project for a young gent. "here's this code alf himself wrote (in two hours). here's the problem. fix it without breaking anyhing!"	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	it can go straighht to ml, and it can be an early 2nd simpler project to handle via V	[18:05]
ascii_field	http://www.loper-os.org/pub/werker.c	[18:06]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1EAjHWZ )	[18:06]
ascii_field	thing is, it also needs to be rebuilt as discussed before, where it stores ~known factors of any given modulus~ in the db	[18:07]
ascii_field	rather than flagging 'phuctored moduli'	[18:07]
mircea_popescu	one thing at a time neh ?	[18:07]
ascii_field	potentially folks could even submit 'i know a factor for modulus m!' into a box somewhere, regardless of why	[18:07]
mircea_popescu	neah.	[18:07]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: some things cannot be retrofitted. this is one of them.	[18:08]
mircea_popescu	trinque you wanna derp with this db ?	[18:08]
ascii_field	and it is the only way of having moduli be retestable without temporarily unphuctoring them	[18:08]
ascii_field	phuctor is one of those things that is mechanically deadly simple on paper but very, very easy to fuck up irrevocably in practice	[18:09]
ascii_field	consider, flip so much as one bit in the product	[18:09]
ascii_field	and it is garbage.	[18:09]
jurov	that make it even more important to snapshot it	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	myeah	[18:10]
*	indiancandy1 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[18:10]
ascii_field	jurov: problem is that it takes a while to - reliably - save or load a GB.	[18:10]
ascii_field	and while it happens no multiplication can take place.	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	that "a while" is not six weeks.	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	during which we just established jack shit's taking place.	[18:10]
ascii_field	well, yes. but in 6 wks product is reliably regenerated	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	i don't care about the site being down an hour a day, to save its guts.	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	i do care about airing air for the next two months.	[18:11]
ascii_field	(incidentally, it ~is~ possible to do this faster by splitting multiplications into a tree and distributing between machines. but this is considerably more moving part than what we have now, and quite enough for ph.d. thesis)	[18:11]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu is very much right that the thing ought to save itself nightly. but this in fact requires rewrite.	[18:12]
ascii_field	of more or less whole thing.	[18:12]
ascii_field	also would be nice to NOT ignore the 5% or so of sks keys that have utf8-isms in'em	[18:14]
ascii_field	but this requires not only rewrite but the remaking of pgpdump lib !	[18:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00067349 = 16.8036 BTC [+] {3}	[18:16]
punkman	sqlite has online backups https://www.sqlite.org/c3ref/backup_finish.html	[18:18]
assbot	Online Backup API. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJWxNV )	[18:18]
punkman	ascii_field: which part in werker takes 6 weeks?	[18:18]
ascii_field	read.	[18:19]
ascii_field	gen_prod.	[18:19]
ascii_field	BingoBoingo et al: http://www.ksat.com/news/ksatcom-exclusive-unedited-video-of-fatal-deputy-involved-shooting	[18:22]
assbot	KSAT.COM EXCLUSIVE: Unedited video of fatal deputy-involved... ... ( http://bit.ly/1PJWVMu )	[18:22]
ascii_field	^ fella shot by cop after surrendering, on camera	[18:22]
ascii_field	with hands up	[18:22]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:23]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[18:24]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:24]
ascii_field	we might be nearing mircea_popescu's magic 3% figure...	[18:24]
*	funkenstein_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[18:28]
ascii_field	and then they drag the body..	[18:31]
thestringpuller	this is like some gta stuff	[18:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00067506 = 17.3153 BTC [+] {3}	[18:33]
thestringpuller	ascii_field: this is why you avoid leaving the house huh?	[18:34]
thestringpuller	damn d00d isn't even black...	[18:34]
ascii_field	thestringpuller: i only ~wish~ i could avoid leaving house	[18:35]
ascii_field	but at any rate, can get firing squad wherever	[18:35]
ascii_field	doesn't have to be at home.	[18:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00068063 = 16.9137 BTC [+] {2}	[18:35]
ascii_field	i personally would not be very astonished to end up killed in some variation on this theme.	[18:35]
mats	jurov: plz privmsg when coinbr returns from maintenance mode	[18:41]
mats	in the future some prior notification would be nice so i could shift into neutral	[18:45]
jurov	well, you said yourself you had some orders in error state	[18:46]
mats	not me	[18:46]
jurov	what other notification do you need?	[18:46]
mats	not today, anyway	[18:46]
*	mike_c has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[18:46]
jurov	if i had to stop it every time there's unexpected balance discrepance, that would be several times per day	[18:47]
mats	this is not reassuring	[18:48]
jurov	did you read my mpex manual? it's explained there	[18:48]
jurov	and i complained numerous times here, too	[18:50]
jurov	also, i suspect i recently started using more proxies, which may have exacerbated the problem.. it's arduous to research, not done yet	[18:51]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:54]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258483 << which is pretty much all of america, sadly.	[18:55]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 16:42:32; ascii_field: little monkeys who want to take the 'good bits', file off the serial numbers, and run with'em	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	which is why the design eventually failed.	[18:55]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[18:56]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:56]
mircea_popescu	or to quote the webexperts in derpxertises, "The elephant in the room is that GCC and emacs aren't competing against proprietary compilers so much as they are against LLVM and clang. Whichever one has better features and support for programming is going to win mindshare and without mindshare you are dead. This is compounded by the fact that there are several major corporations helping LLVM along so you need steady cont	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	ributions and use just to stay even with them."	[18:57]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-02-2015#1019862 << see also.	[18:58]
assbot	Logged on 15-02-2015 21:43:42; asciilifeform: 'but Richard is seemingly frightened about the compiler competition from LLVM that is out under a permissive free software license.' << fud artist lies through his teeth. rms is not 'frightened of competition under permissive licenses', but is pointing out that organized attack by shitgnomes flying (as always) flags of convenience, is under way.	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[18:58]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-02-2015#1015336 << also.	[18:58]
assbot	Logged on 10-02-2015 22:07:54; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the llvm thing, prior to career as apple crud, had a previous life as a darling plaything of u.s. 'comp sci' academitardia	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[18:59]
ascii_field	https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html << from horse's mouth	[18:59]
assbot	Richard Stallman - Re: clang vs free software ... ( http://bit.ly/1L2e9RN )	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	Posted Jan 25, 2015 13:39 UTC (Sun) by dakas (guest, #88146) [Link]	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	Uh, Eric Raymond explicitly created the "Open Source" label exactly to appeal to industry players who considered bothering with principles suspicious. So yes, Open Source is for people without principles. That's not Stallman's pitch, but an explicit design goal of the Open Source agenda. To replace the appeal to principles, a bunch of technical and marketing criteria are propounded.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	The dearth of actually successful Open Source companies (where Open Source is part of a permanent rather than an exit strategy) makes it pretty clear that this "realistic" advertising strategy is not actually founded in much realism.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	guy has a point.	[19:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00068214 = 12.4832 BTC [+] {3}	[19:00]
trinque	I am prepping to move cross-country, so I can't make hard commitments re: time this week or next; however I don't mind taking a look at phuctor's db use at all.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu	and perhaps the best illustration in history of what ~exactly~ "flag of convenience" means.	[19:00]
ascii_field	aha	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	"hey, some 8 yo might have died for some reason - wouldn't you like this list of washington apointees to decide who can marry in pakistan and when and wqhy ?"	[19:01]
ascii_field	typical human approach to orcraft	[19:01]
*	copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	also what "stealing the stealing" is. check out gcc, and it's "mindshare". because that's what we're calling reddit votes now.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	im kinda surprised we're not hearing all about faux-bitcoin "mindshare".	[19:02]
mircea_popescu	in other news, "you charging passerbys for the sexual use of your wife is very bad because she'll lose mindshare. should give her away for free, and then raise the children. experts agree!"	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	.gif	[19:05]
*	DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com ))	[19:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00067906 = 7.3338 BTC [-]	[19:07]
ascii_field	BingoBoingo et al: http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2015/08/25/Police-Men-plotted-to-use-drone-to-smuggle-drugs-gun-porn-into-prison/3451440520682 << l0l	[19:11]
trinque	http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/illinois-police-officer-shot-prompting-manhunt-reports-article-1.2344209 << another cop shot too	[19:12]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1L2gADC )	[19:12]
trinque	didn't see it in logs, might've already been treated	[19:12]
*	hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:13]
trinque	gonna need a hashtag for this shit; it's trending	[19:13]
*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[19:13]
ascii_field	trinque: usg will happily carpetbomb own subjects if it needs to.	[19:13]
mircea_popescu	and you know this how.	[19:14]
ascii_field	hypothesis.	[19:14]
trinque	I think it will behave ever more incoherently until it shakes apart entirely	[19:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16432 @ 0.00068365 = 11.2337 BTC [+]	[19:14]
ascii_field	i mean, it was happily spreading microbes in own cities, as early as '60s	[19:15]
ascii_field	'for test'	[19:15]
ascii_field	'harmless'	[19:15]
trinque	sure wasn't that in california somewhere (among others probably)	[19:16]
ascii_field	iirc san fran.	[19:16]
ascii_field	brb	[19:16]
*	ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	these are kinda different.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	the important point about bombs is not the destruction. it's that they are loud and enforce in the recipient a taste of his own powerlessness.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu	i think i said it before, but anyway : the important thing about a beating isn't the actual beating, but the part that forces the recipient to internalise he has no recourse.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	if you go kloink some dude on the street upside the head, he'll just think himself mistreated, go look for places to complain - the police station, the church, wherever.	[19:18]
mircea_popescu	he'll fantasize about being made whole, all that nonsense.	[19:19]
*	pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	when you beat a slave, it is educative because she knows that this is strictly reality, and the only way out is internalised change.	[19:19]
mircea_popescu	so no, microbes can not be used as substitute for your original " usg will happily carpetbomb own subjects if it needs to." specifically because that one chief ingredient is missing.	[19:19]
trinque	the microbes were tested on people because they wanted to know the results	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	(this is also why the agreement wass in england that if hitler had in fact the resources and the will to continue bombing for six weeks he'd have won the war with britain.	[19:20]
trinque	speaks to maybe their sense of impunity but nothing else	[19:20]
mircea_popescu	not because "britain would have bene destroyed" per se.)	[19:20]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	trinque note that, importantly, you also need a particular sort of helpless population. the afghani have been bombed pretty much constantly since the 70s, did nothing.	[19:21]
trinque	you need cowards.	[19:21]
mircea_popescu	not exactly cowards. you need jwz's.	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	people who've decided "they just want to X".	[19:22]
trinque	whatever he is, a worm	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	a civilised man!	[19:22]
*	trinque clears his throat	[19:22]
trinque	my mistake!	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	polite and not fucking his secretary.	[19:22]
trinque	haha	[19:22]
pete_dushenski	one who 'doesn't say things like that'	[19:22]
mircea_popescu	because it isn't necessary!	[19:23]
pete_dushenski	and 'doesn't bang her like that' idem	[19:23]
mircea_popescu	or called for! or fair to the black people!	[19:23]
phf	asciilifeform: what about something like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/154647, put a flag on sighup, put a couple of checks (i'm not sure if my guess as far as mainloop is correct) for the flag, do a stop the world snapshot. can have it running normally, periodically send kill -HUP ...	[19:23]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KpIyPq )	[19:23]
trinque	because civilization is something which happens in the absence-of, not something which happened due to some particular mechanism of conditioning	[19:24]
trinque	you just prevent all the meanies from being mean, and then wealth and empire emerges	[19:24]
trinque	speaking of bombing, when does the Fed start buying stocks directly	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258501 << you're nine months old to that party. what reputation ?	[19:25]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 16:57:22; *: btcdrak wonders where he can short Mike and Gavin's reputation which seem to be going down in flames along with the XT movement.	[19:25]
btcdrak	bwahahahaha	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	phf not a half bad idea	[19:25]
mircea_popescu	trinque the fed mostly owns privately issued paper anyway. mostly bond bundles, but most of them are tied to stocks (via banks) so in point of fact the fed owns atm ~118-122% or so of the entire us economy	[19:26]
trinque	ah, then I'm way behind	[19:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.QNTR] 53100 @ 0.00038573 = 20.4823 BTC [+]	[19:28]
*	pete_dushenski has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258516 << it does have a very 1970s spy flick air to it doesn't it.	[19:28]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 17:16:07; ascii_field: i can't help but wonder if someone is getting a red star pinned on his uniform in moscow, for having planted this bug	[19:28]
*	pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:29]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[19:30]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258703 << he fought the law, foolishly, and the law won. as it does.	[19:36]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 18:50:51; ascii_field: also mircea_popescu appears to have forgotten about mr stack and his programmatory llc ?	[19:36]
ben_vulpes	he also fought entrenched interests, and they won. as they do.	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	he also isn't germane.	[19:43]
trinque	https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/you-think-the-stock-market-is-crazy-look-at-oil-prices/2015/09/01/63b35f40-50e9-11e5-b225-90edbd49f362_story.html << money's sloshing all over the place	[19:44]
jurov	deedbot-: http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201508.txt.asc	[19:50]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KpL3RN )	[19:51]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[19:51]
jurov	deedbot-: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150902/attachment_a339ad5e335ee4a41bd52737e69623d7b3355301.txt	[19:51]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KpL603 )	[19:51]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[19:51]
*	wyrdmantis has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[19:57]
jurov	mircea's entrepreneur experience in 90's romania is germane to everything	[20:03]
jurov	here, too, practically gave up on income tax avoidance to this day	[20:05]
jurov	the govt.. and try make that up on VAT	[20:06]
jurov	and (completely lawful) nonrecognition of business expenses happens, too.	[20:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.0006905 = 15.0874 BTC [+]	[20:11]
trinque	tax avoidance is a foolish move if you're dealing in their currency	[20:13]
trinque	why take the risk?	[20:13]
trinque	and if you're not, good job!	[20:13]
trinque	well, I should say, it is a move you ought to be prepared to back up.	[20:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14806 @ 0.00068314 = 10.1146 BTC [-] {3}	[20:18]
*	joecool has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[20:20]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258779 << i'm aware of "tx dumper" as a TODO item that alf gives a shit about and that's more or less all. everything else is in his and mircea_popescu's heads.	[20:20]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 19:07:20; ascii_field: people like this imho do not need mechanized 'bug tracking' machinery	[20:20]
ben_vulpes	mod6 probably has his own as well.	[20:20]
ben_vulpes	since when have i implemented anything, hanbot?!	[20:22]
ben_vulpes	"every software development company eventually ends up writing their own issue tracker, time tracker, and billing system."	[20:23]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1258801 << you and i i think are coming at this from the wrong angle.	[20:24]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 19:10:19; mike_c: but "know each other" != "know what everyone is working on at all times"	[20:24]
ben_vulpes	work on this thing cannot be marshalled. must be self-organized, by the selves so involved.	[20:24]
ben_vulpes	hanbot: i once cooked up a wiki page on the topic. has since languished, rotted, died.	[20:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4744 @ 0.00067592 = 3.2066 BTC [-]	[20:27]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259238 << entirely impractical. 1) IT TAKES FOREVER 2) nothing can happen while it happens!	[20:30]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 22:21:22; phf: asciilifeform: what about something like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/154647, put a flag on sighup, put a couple of checks (i'm not sure if my guess as far as mainloop is correct) for the flag, do a stop the world snapshot. can have it running normally, periodically send kill -HUP ...	[20:30]
asciilifeform	phf: or, if this is only for period snapshots, then yes	[20:31]
asciilifeform	phf: and i have a half-written version of that. somewhere	[20:31]
asciilifeform	still does not help me now	[20:31]
asciilifeform	because have to somehow regenerate the lost product	[20:31]
asciilifeform	and motherfuckers strategically yank the mains cable	[20:31]
asciilifeform	comical idiocy, and i have no way around it presently	[20:31]
asciilifeform	aaaand it would have to be db-aware, because has to remember now ~which~ moduli in db are represented in the snapshot..	[20:32]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259224 << afghan doesn't rely on food trucks, flush toilet, or mains wiring. fragile things.	[20:33]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 22:19:12; mircea_popescu: trinque note that, importantly, you also need a particular sort of helpless population. the afghani have been bombed pretty much constantly since the 70s, did nothing.	[20:33]
asciilifeform	hanbot: these are not 'holes' as such, in that i was aware of them from hour 0.	[20:33]
asciilifeform	l0l	[20:34]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259255 << very germane. american tax law designates specifically people like me for maximum pederasty treatment at every possible opportunity.	[20:37]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 22:40:34; mircea_popescu: he also isn't germane.	[20:37]
asciilifeform	'enough money to be worth raping and killing, but not enough to hire lawyers or run away to .ar etc'	[20:38]
asciilifeform	aka usg feeding pool.	[20:38]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259268 << also recall the several threads where i explained that not only are virtually all of my expenses (and 100% of income) denominated in usd, but specifically the insta-trackable electronic kind.	[20:41]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 23:10:57; trinque: tax avoidance is a foolish move if you're dealing in their currency	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i hope you're awake for this one	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	because maximally, we accidentally found a magic packet.	[20:49]
kakobrekla	magic packet that plugs the mains cable?	[20:51]
kakobrekla	pulls*	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	yes	[20:52]
kakobrekla	niggawut	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/1Q5WYQQ << every single time.	[20:52]
assbot	dpaste: 1Q5WYQQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1JKsQMt )	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	you ask for that tx. it disconnects.	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	i have a mile of logs showing the behaviour without exception.	[20:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8366 @ 0.00068294 = 5.7135 BTC [+]	[20:53]
*	kakobrekla for a second thought magick packet rebooted phuctor	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	that's in next week's crop kako	[20:54]
kakobrekla	heh	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	and no stack's not fucking germane. he was trying to insulate HIS INCOME. i was discussing optimizing YOUR EXPENDITURE. not like items.	[20:55]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:56]
*	refferedbyloper_ (~chatzilla@179.43.176.226) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4450 @ 0.00067926 = 3.0227 BTC [-]	[20:58]
ben_vulpes	;;ticker	[20:59]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 227.97, Best ask: 228.06, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 228.06, 24 hour volume: 9813.28330955, 24 hour low: 226.55, 24 hour high: 232.39, 24 hour vwap: None	[20:59]
*	refferedbyloper has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[21:00]
*	refferedbyloper_ is now known as refferedbyloper	[21:00]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu !!	[21:00]
asciilifeform	glorious	[21:01]
*	asciilifeform washes chopping block	[21:01]
asciilifeform	if (nPos > ReceiveBufferSize()) {	[21:02]
asciilifeform	if (!pnode->fDisconnect)	[21:02]
asciilifeform	printf("socket recv flood control disconnect (%d bytes) ", vRecv.size());	[21:02]
asciilifeform	pnode->CloseSocketDisconnect();	[21:02]
asciilifeform	}	[21:02]
asciilifeform	dafuq was ~in~ that tx, mircea_popescu	[21:02]
asciilifeform	10,000 microbitbet winningz ?	[21:03]
kakobrekla	bitbet needs bigger blocks!	[21:03]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259321 << my point was that stack was trying to play tax games while having no financial meat on his bones, nowhere to run, no money for lawyering	[21:03]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 23:53:24; mircea_popescu: and no stack's not fucking germane. he was trying to insulate HIS INCOME. i was discussing optimizing YOUR EXPENDITURE. not like items.	[21:03]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: a corp with zero income, tonnes of spending, no plausible reason for existence save tax shelter for a schmuck, and zero usg blessing (rather the opposite!) is just a request for gassing	[21:04]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-09-2015#1259316 << mile of log with this happening on my node? or also elsewhere ?	[21:05]
assbot	Logged on 01-09-2015 23:50:16; mircea_popescu: i have a mile of logs showing the behaviour without exception.	[21:05]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform nope, it's tiny. single output	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform on your node and each and every other node i know of.	[21:07]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: most spiffy	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/3N5DRSD	[21:09]
assbot	dpaste: 3N5DRSD ... ( http://bit.ly/1FidVDV )	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	(to cuantify, i stopped counting at 500.)	[21:10]
asciilifeform	continued in pm	[21:10]
asciilifeform	http://dpaste.com/1M9M4KV.txt << l0l	[21:14]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JKuIFa )	[21:14]
asciilifeform	(grep output. looking at the actual log presently)	[21:15]
asciilifeform	anyway, fwiw my node tries to send it.	[21:25]
asciilifeform	and nothing about disconnects.	[21:25]
asciilifeform	problem is on mircea_popescu's end.	[21:25]
asciilifeform	(that is, his node hangs up.)	[21:26]
*	MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[21:28]
*	indiancandy1 (~indiancan@cpc15-finc13-2-0-cust106.4-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16888 @ 0.00067926 = 11.4713 BTC [-]	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	!gettrust VariaVarietatis	[21:32]
mats	http://www.pogo.org/blog/2015/08/army-must-pay-kbr-legal-expenses.html	[21:32]
assbot	Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user VariaVarietatis: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=VariaVarietatis \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/VariaVarietatis/	[21:32]
assbot	Army Ordered to Pay KBR’s Legal Expenses ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fihkmc )	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	no u!	[21:33]
*	MiningBuddy (~MiningBud@unaffiliated/miningbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	mats of course ?	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	obv govt will try to wiggle out of its own promises, being the government of the united states that's at issue here.	[21:35]
mircea_popescu	but otherwise, who the fuck do you think will ever work for them without indemnity ?	[21:35]
mircea_popescu	they break the law. all the time.	[21:35]
mats	whoa, whoa, such cynicism	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	tis the truth. i personally wouldn't work with a rogue entity even if it promises "rly for srs" to cover my legal costs.	[21:36]
phf	asciilifeform: yeah, suggestion is not intended as the correct solution. more like send kill -HUP -> system goes into an hour long snapshot state	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	but then again other people are stupid	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	(in kbr's case, it's not that they're stupid, it's that they were raped. the classic "we provide indemnity so now you may not not break the law as we tell you to" trick. "key is in your pocket" in legal parlance)	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	!rate VariaVarietatis 1 Euloran	[21:37]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/530ce9b2ff3f37b9	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.VariaVarietatis.1:f7aa6b3fcbc2ebb3075b180556394cded6a0dfe953805ad91bd3adaad4b9156a	[21:38]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of 1 for VariaVarietatis with note: Euloran	[21:38]
mats	dunno about that. from intel i've gathered, it appears KBR did the raping here	[21:40]
mats	raped DoD, orc locals, just finished raping USG in their own court	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	yaya, im sure that's how it went.	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	ceo mr goldstein	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	the poor usg how it only wanted to restore peace and democracy to those poor iraquians, beleaguered by corrupt officials and tyrannycal despotism as they were, and then this capitalist concern of evil capital came and abused the entire good will of the people of usia and their elected representatives.	[21:44]
mats	http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/world/middleeast/04electrocute.html << exemplary	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	what world we live in ;/	[21:44]
assbot	Despite Alert, Flawed Wiring Still Kills G.I.’s - New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1FiiUo4 )	[21:44]
mats	FTR, i do actually believe that Bush et. al were naive enough to believe AFG/IRQ needed and wanted democracy	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	that was then.	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile it's more like "we've been using temporary shelter in a permanent manner for the past decade and why is this insulation falling off"	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	but in lighter news, http://38.media.tumblr.com/963cd7a4cbcf306dbbbba80e07570c27/tumblr_naxm4m6aEa1rwaupfo1_500.gif	[21:49]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KpThJJ )	[21:49]
*	funkenstein_ (~user@c-50-187-182-168.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:55]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[21:56]
funkenstein_	mats: 以夷治夷成依法意义, something like that?	[22:02]
*	MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[22:38]
*	williamdunne has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[22:41]
*	MiningBuddy (~MiningBud@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/miningbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:43]
mats	funkenstein_: i am having difficulty finding the source of the idiom (and subsequently how it is properly written) but the second half does not parse	[22:46]
mats	it may be that i remembered it incorrectly, i am only partially literate and recall the phrase from a translation of a ming text	[22:49]
funkenstein_	thanks, that was just my guess	[22:49]
*	King_Rex has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:52]
mats	the phrase happens to predate 'yi yi zhi yi'	[22:53]
*	julmac has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[22:56]
*	mod6 has one of those summertime colds	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	i got some sort of low cold too	[22:59]
mod6	i've sneezed about 34 times today.	[22:59]
mod6	and i'm running a fever now. annoying.	[23:00]
mod6	(19:17) <+ben_vulpes> mod6 probably has his own as well. << mine is basically a by hand list. it really needs some attention/tlc. I gotta get something more structured.	[23:01]
mod6	not sure if I wanna use trac or anything at this point.. but some cosideration is warrented for /something/ resonable for at least personal use.	[23:02]
mod6	*consideration	[23:02]
mod6	I'll add it to my to-do list ;]	[23:02]
mod6	ima go and try to catch up on these logs and get some extra zzzs. have a good evening all!	[23:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00068799 = 4.3343 BTC [+]	[23:08]
*	julmac (~julmac@82.221.107.179.adsl.inet-telecom.org) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:10]
*	shesek (~shesek@77.125.95.25) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61982 @ 0.00069495 = 43.0744 BTC [+] {8}	[23:14]
deedbot-	[Trilema] Micul Botanist - http://trilema.com/2015/micul-botanist/	[23:16]
*	williamdunne (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/williamdunne) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:20]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-09-2015#1259375 << they raped the u.s. ~taxpayer~. not to be confused with the stainless steel, quite unrapeable orifice of usg proper.	[23:23]
assbot	Logged on 02-09-2015 00:38:55; mats: raped DoD, orc locals, just finished raping USG in their own court	[23:23]
asciilifeform	when it 'would not do' to lose a lawsuit, or so much as permit one to be heard, they invoke sovereign privilege and that's that.	[23:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6018 @ 0.00069786 = 4.1997 BTC [+]	[23:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5587 @ 0.00068055 = 3.8022 BTC [-]	[23:25]
*	indiancandy1 has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[23:37]
*	indiancandy1 (~indiancan@cpc15-finc13-2-0-cust106.4-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5621 @ 0.00069705 = 3.9181 BTC [+]	[23:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50484 @ 0.00069997 = 35.3373 BTC [+] {4}	[23:47]
*	shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)	[23:49]
*	gares has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[23:53]
*	indiancandy1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:54]
*	funkenstein_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[23:58]

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