Forum logs for 27 Oct 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/systemd-vulnerability-allows-crashing-systems-remotely-and-probably-executing-code-too-with-dhcpv6-packets/ << Qntra - SystemD Vulnerability Allows Crashing Systems Remotely (And Probably Executing Code Too) With DHCPv6 Packets [00:13]
mircea_popescu: o hey Mocky [01:46]
Mocky: good morning [01:46]
mircea_popescu: top systemd keks. pwn eins! [01:46]
* BingoBoingo still waiting to hear the new fope's identity [01:47]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it was just a throway oneliner ic ame up with while walking off a steak, sadly no more there. [01:50]
Mocky: mircea_popescu, do you have any interest in kuwait? if so I can keep this lead warm on the back burner while I work qatar [01:50]
mircea_popescu: Mocky not particularly, but i mean... your gf or w/e. [01:51]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo it was just a throway oneliner ic ame up with while walking off a steak, sadly no more there. << AH, I though maybe Tess Hollandaise died of excess mass and had been replaced as leader of the hamplanets by a younger, dumpier model [01:55]
mircea_popescu: fraid not. [02:12]
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/cabinas-genesis-y-otras-ostras/ << Trilema - Cabinas Genesis y otras ostras. [02:57]
diana_coman: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-26-oct-2018#2490435 - ok, I'll implement it this way then and we see [03:54]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-27 01:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866669 <<< this statement is too general. "which one has the largest first octet". that's it. [03:54]
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07e-hermannstadt-ii.html << The Tar Pit - Hermannstadt, part two: the huge-ass photo shoot [07:44]
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2593 << Loper OS - Can the Serpent Cipher fit in the ICE40 FPGA? [12:36]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically, if it fits in 1/3 of the chip ? [12:49]
asciilifeform: approx, yes ( tho keep in mind that said chip, in order to do useful work, gotta have at least a bit of room for other things, unless one were to equip board with >1 ( not end of the world, they're, what, 8bux ) ) [13:16]
hanbot: mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: nicoleci sent 31 emails (as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 ) to various news outlets last night, and will report any replies here. i expect more mail to go out this week, will update. [13:17]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 07:14 hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done. [13:17]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observe also that the sbox mechanism is 'bitsliced' (i.e. the bits move only 'vertically' there ) so potentially it can be shrunk at expense of speed . so the real puzzler isn't 'does serpent fit', it can almost certainly be shoehorned, but 'with how little/much unrollage' i.e. what resulting eating bitrate. [13:18]
asciilifeform: it is also possible that the equations can be simplified further, i did a fairly surface job of it, mostly by hand [13:19]
asciilifeform: literally 2hr's evening wurk. [13:19]
asciilifeform: btw, spoiler : i put the thing in an ice40-8k , simply did not have time to write up yet, and the fwd sbox in fact eats roughly 1/4 of the gates . which leaves the orig question wide open... [13:21]
asciilifeform: in other minutiae, the terms i left in xor-containing form, can of course be expressed in not/and/or , but this resulted in seven-term ORs , which i assumed is a greater delay than to let it use a xor LUT but this is not experimentally confirmed, and one might conceivably get better throughput if all of the terms were rewritten in the and/or/not form. [13:24]
asciilifeform: 'yosys' ( 'icestorm'-'s synthesizer, suggests a max clock rate of ~25Mhz for the posted form. ) [13:25]
asciilifeform: hanbot: neato, ty [13:25]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so did you measure throughput of this thing ? [13:27]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as in, whether it actually sboxates at the stated 25MHz ? notyet, gotta write a serial i/o thing for it, to do this. possibly later today. [13:28]
asciilifeform: i expect the sbox won't actually be the bottleneck in a full serpentron tho [13:28]
asciilifeform: rather, it'll be the rotational transforms. [13:29]
asciilifeform: those are blocking, i.e. take multiple clocks ea. [13:29]
asciilifeform: imho, if an ice40 can be coaxed into serpenting at , say, 1MB/s, it's worth sumthing, otherwise iffy [13:30]
asciilifeform: ( and conceivably, worth sumthing even if it takes having ~two~ on the board problem is that i dun presently have a board with 2 , to actually try ) [13:31]
asciilifeform: believe or not, seems like nobody has ever publicly baked a board with >1 [13:32]
asciilifeform: i've gathered afaik all of the commercial demo boards with ice40, they all have 1 ea. [13:32]
asciilifeform: if i were baking asic ( not sure why anybody would blow 'orbit' moneys on serpent asic, but for the sake of arg ) would unroll the sbox invocation the way it is unrolled in the pc serpent diana_coman is using, there'd be no reason not to have 128 or what, independent copies. but in the tight space of ice40 this is out of the question. [13:38]
asciilifeform: err, 32 [13:39]
asciilifeform: is the actual parallelism of the algo. the rotator would likewise win from having 32 physical instances, as obvious from http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/#selection-87.15048-87.17527 [13:40]
asciilifeform: so from that point it becomes a q of the actual gate delays. in principle a serpentron that does coupla 100MB/s is physically possible. ( just not on my desk, lol ) [13:41]
asciilifeform: i admit, the seekrit reason asciilifeform could even be arsed to pick the thing up, is that to write serpent in maximally algebraic form might tell us sumthing useful re the weakness. [13:45]
asciilifeform: ( the orig author, to be fair, did write it algebraically, but in imho somewhat cryptic form ) [13:46]
mod6: hanbot: That's awesome, thanks! [13:46]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: grr, typo, ~65~ not 25 [13:48]
asciilifeform: but funnily enuff, just from this 2hr lulz we already know moar than from my combined stash of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866343 pointlessly-murdered trees... [13:51]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style . [13:51]
asciilifeform: ohai mod6 [13:53]
mod6: hai, how goes alf? [13:53]
asciilifeform: mod6: slowly [13:53]
mod6: werd [13:53]
asciilifeform: mod6: goin' back to my very full ada plate [13:53]
mod6: yeah, sounds like you've got a lot you wanna work on. [13:54]
asciilifeform: mod6: that, + tall pile of saecular rubbish [13:54]
mod6: asciilifeform: *nod* [13:57]
asciilifeform: !#s from:|\n [14:09]
a111: 23 results for "from:|\\n", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3A%7C%5Cn [14:09]
asciilifeform: aah cr50 d00d [14:10]
mircea_popescu: i certainly see the point re "explore the space" and yes a serpent implemented as both eulora workhorse and verilog is better studied than just former. [14:23]
asciilifeform: !!up |\n [14:23]
deedbot: |\n voiced for 30 minutes. [14:23]
mircea_popescu: i don't even think there's anything wrong whatsoever with studying the damned thing. my reservations were strictly around investing any kind of "this is te republic's encryptodisk" flag on it\ [14:23]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i view block ciphertrons as a 'slightly better than nuffin' kind of tech -- would slightly rather lose a serpented disk to enemy than naked one but that's about it [14:24]
|\n: hello, was wondering if you've heard anything about this in particular https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://github.com/RUB-SysSec/Microcode/blob/master/ff_div/fx_payload_exec_linux32_fx_50.0_set_eip.html [14:24]
mircea_popescu: i'd rather hang the moron flattering himself with "enemy" that tried to lose me a disk than either of these. [14:25]
mircea_popescu: |\n suppose you start by introducing yourself and showing the minimum awareness of republican process of using sane fucking pastebins. [14:25]
asciilifeform: hang straight off the yardarm of dirigible, wainot [14:25]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cuz it attracts crows. [14:25]
asciilifeform: |\n: haven't seen, but if it actually worx, will be hilarious [14:27]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: linked item alleges that if one divides 0xa1a2a3a4 by 0xb1b2b3b4 on x86, triggers magic nsa hole. [14:27]
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jb4Pz/?raw=true << for perma-l0gz. [14:27]
|\n: not to mention that amount of such holes, of course if that works, is immense [14:28]
asciilifeform: |\n: where'dja come across this, and for what chip is it alleged to work ? [14:28]
|\n: on a local russian irc party [14:29]
mircea_popescu: is this more of that romanian fellow's "magical usb stick aliens" ? [14:30]
mircea_popescu: Firefox 50.0 32-bit on Linux << should be easy enough to test [14:31]
asciilifeform: eh |\n it's a duck : apparent source is https://ecc2017.coreboot.org/uploads/talk/presentation/38/Microcode.pdf talk , and demands a pre-diddled, per the recipe, old amd k8/k10 [14:31]
mircea_popescu: !Qcalc 2828046480 / 3432026256 [14:31]
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: 0.824016563118 [14:31]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: piltdown man [14:31]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, don't you remember this thing ? some dood went off deep end, that there's a cvasi-magical virus in his usb stick. cca 2015 vintage logs [14:32]
asciilifeform: ( flip to last pg ) [14:32]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes i recall very well. this one is genuine, tho, but one half of a rigged academi-demo, requires ~their~ microcode patch [14:32]
asciilifeform: rather than a wild thing. [14:32]
asciilifeform: 'As explained in Section 7.2, we use ASM.JS code in Firefox 50 to trigger the implemented x86 div Trojan. It is shown in Listing 9.' [14:33]
mircea_popescu: so basically this is a bug in asm.js ? [14:33]
asciilifeform: nah, it's part of a 'if you could patch microcode, here's how you might trigger the bomb' stage magic demo. [14:33]
asciilifeform: there's no 0day here. [14:33]
asciilifeform: evidently sumbody passed it off to |\n as an 0day [14:34]
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oFd2X/?raw=true << full text of the pdfturd, for the l0gz. [14:34]
|\n: well not really, i'm not too much 0day-aware kind of person as well [14:34]
asciilifeform: |\n: if it was shown to you as 'omfg exploit!111', you've been duped. [14:35]
asciilifeform: the given coad does nuffin on an off-the-shelf chip. it was an example meant to work with supplied microcode patch. [14:35]
mircea_popescu: of course, microcode patches happen in the wild, so it's not entirely meritless. [14:35]
asciilifeform: theoretically the trigger for the ~actual~ boobytrap in x86 cpu would look very similar, yes [14:36]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not meritless, but not a weapon, toy store water gun, is the idea. [14:36]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: needs diddled bios + the crown jewels of intel/amd, to diddle microcode (intel's is rsa'd, amd's simply obscure/undoc'd) , and if yer diddling bios can make much simpler trap. but yes, would work [14:37]
asciilifeform: i saw |\n's snippet and thought 'loox familiar' and sure enuff it was in that 2017 piece. [14:38]
mircea_popescu: aha [14:38]
asciilifeform: |\n get yourself a key already and reg with deedbot [14:38]
asciilifeform: !!help [14:38]
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html [14:38]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866787 << for the record >> http://trilema.com/2013/badbios-aka-badlydonedamagecontrol/ [14:40]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-27 18:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, don't you remember this thing ? some dood went off deep end, that there's a cvasi-magical virus in his usb stick. cca 2015 vintage logs [14:40]
asciilifeform: famous lulgem [14:40]
asciilifeform: observe that the gag vanished without a trace. [14:41]
mircea_popescu: you know ? [14:41]
mircea_popescu: shit-at-wall strategy. [14:41]
asciilifeform: it went to where all cheap psyops lulz go when they die. [14:42]
mircea_popescu: mit ? [14:42]
asciilifeform: sorta like the usual 'hey i found nessie' 'wouldja like to borrow my diving gear and thermal cam?' 'mmm nessie is invisible to thermal cam and what's a diving mask' '...' [14:44]
asciilifeform: in today's variation, 'hey i found a dead mermaid' 'um, this is a bloated dolphin carcass' '...' [14:45]
* asciilifeform bbl:meat [14:48]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's a q : how feasible/costly would it be to have an array of tiny switches ? say 32x8 ? [18:00]
mircea_popescu: bring back ye olde switch-bootloading!!! [18:00]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what sorta switches are you thinking of ? if it's ye olde DIPs, nobody cancelled'em, they're maybe a dime for a block of 8, and look today exactly as you remember then from yer 286 [18:50]
asciilifeform: or are we talking spring-loaded thingies for reading punched card, or wat. [18:51]
asciilifeform: archaetypical example, say, https://archive.is/0IRmv photo [18:52]
asciilifeform: i'll point out that nobody ever booted from '32x8 block' tho, if you recall folx booted from 8 (or 9 or whatever your byte bitness) + 'forward' button, word-at-a-time [18:53]
asciilifeform: flipping massive grid with fingers is a bitch [18:54]
asciilifeform: on subj : https://archive.is/7ILm0 << notbad illustration of how pdp was booted. [18:55]
asciilifeform: ( the classic pdp-8, that is ) [18:55]
asciilifeform: actually scrach that, it's a terrible illustration. but i dun have a good one handy. [18:56]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it's for cipher keys -- imho terrible idea to have ~all~ the key bits as physical switched in parallel, third party has no biznis being able to see the key simply by getting a peek at a keyed box with eyes [18:59]
asciilifeform: *switches in [19:00]
asciilifeform: ( you also wanna be able to unkey a box at a second's notice, and that aint happening with parallel key-as-switches, either ) [19:10]
asciilifeform: it's why usg lost its precious keyz when bestkorea took famous ship 'pueblo' [19:10]
asciilifeform: ( iirc the prescribed key-wipe mechanism was a brick of dynamite, and the crew decided it wanted to live a bit moar ) [19:11]
deedbot: http://bingology.net/2018/10/27/peso-watch-october-2018-edition/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog - Peso Watch October 2018 Edition [19:12]
mod6: !!ledger [19:57]
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GNpJi/?raw=true [19:57]
mod6: !!sent-invoices [19:57]
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ySf7t/?raw=true [19:57]
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2627 << Loper OS - Serpent in ICE40, Part 2. [21:17]
mircea_popescu: alf is evidently having fun. [23:28]
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